The Rewatchables - ‘After Hours’ with Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey really want to see a Plaster of that Paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight before rewatching Martin Scorsese’s 1985 neo-noir black comedy film, ‘After Hours’ starring Griffin Dunne and Rosanna Arquette.  Producers: Jack Sanders and Ronak Nair Book your next business trip at holidayinn.com This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.®  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller, and the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringar Podcast Network. Find the big picture with Sean Fennessee.

That is right. If you had been left out in New York month, I think people would have felt like we were feuding. Yeah, I got to tell you. I'm already feuding with Kendrick Perkins, apparently. So I don't know if I could have added you to the list. I would be in great company if I could join Perk in the feud. But I'm very grateful to be invited here. It did cross my mind when you, I'm usually like pretty chill about like Bill's going to do whatever he wants to do with Rwatchables.

I love being on the show whenever. but when you announced New York month But it was, we announced it two films in It was like kind of belatedly became New York month You know what it was? It wasn't even Am I going to be on an episode? It was, is a New Yorker going to be on an episode? That's, I was like, It's John D. Strimson's going to be here, you know?

Did we not have a New Yorker or anything? Van, CR. I guess Kyle Brandt lives there. Kyle, Kyle, Brian lived there. Chris did live there for a time. But native New Yorker, we don't have as many at the ringers you would think. Well, that's intentional because I have final say in a lot of this stuff. I'm happy to be here regardless.

We watch what you can find on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, and you can find it as a video podcast on Spotify. We're videotaping this right now. The last episode of New York City Month. NYC Month, New York Month, what did we settle on for a title? Big Apple Broadcasting. Let's go. There you go.

We had to do this one. Martin Scorsese, after hours. Right after this. There's never been a comedy quite. Like After Hours, Rape's People magazine, a racy, raucous ride through the night, bound to leave audiences reeling with laughter. Newsweek says, what a pleasure it is to watch Scorsesey Cook. He's masterful.

His images sparkle. And the village voice calls it funny, original, and audacious. After Hours. I'm glad you came. Rated R. Now it's Select Theater. It's coming soon to additional locations. This episode of The Rewatchable is presented by Holiday Inn by IHG.

It's a new day for a new stay at Holiday Inn for business travelers. Do you kind of as a business traveler, Sean? Sure, sometimes. Okay. With modern spaces for meeting and working plus delicious dining for breakfast to Happy Hour. Do you breakfast, Sean? I do. I had an apple and a breakfast bar this morning.

Oh, interesting. I don't need any breakfast. But I do love Happy Hour and dinner. They have that too. You have everything you need to get your work done. Give your everyday business travel and upgrade. Book your next business trip at Holiday Inn by IHG visitholidayend.com to book your stay. All right. After Hours. Cult classic. When they talk about the cult classics and whatever the movies that get listed and it can be 5, 10, 15, 20, this one will always get thrown into the paragraph.

It's usually pretty high on the list. Yeah. There's a variety of reasons for that. Is it a New York movie or a Scorsese movie if you had to pick one? I'll just spoil right now that this is in my top five favorite Scorsese movies of all time. So for me, it's a Scorsese movie. But part of that is because the New York that's in this movie is not a New York I ever. experienced. I'm too young to have been in the dirtbag central that was Howard Street in 1985. So I don't even, it doesn't even look as much. It looks like a place to look that way, but it doesn't feel that way anymore. So it's more of a time capsule. And for me, it's Scorsese style all over the place. It's so funny watching this and just seeing all the seeds of Goodfellas and all these little

edits and camera shots. And you're like, oh, he saved that for later for five years after. So I am Barely old enough to remember this version of New York City. Okay. Yeah. My buddy... Did you go to Manhattan when you were a kid? Yeah. So when I was in high school and then right after my buddy Jim Grady, his mom got a place in New York City.

And we started, if she wasn't there, we started going, yeah, we're going to stay in your place. And you can imagine when ensued. We would go out. So it was like probably late 80s, early 90s. Okay. You mixing it up at the Berlin Club? What were you doing? We were just kind of going out and trying to get into places with fake IDs.

but there was a couple nights that we had that the reason this movie is so great is everybody has these New York City nights. But in that day, there was one night we ended up in the meat district and I actually thought I was going to die. It was like three in the morning, we're at some party, we got lost leaving,

we didn't know where we were going. And it was exactly like the New York in this movie where it's just, it's empty, it's scary. You don't know how to get anywhere. There's no cabs and you're just like, it becomes escape from New York. It's so funny too because me packing that area that you're talking about in particular is one of those parts of the city now that is defined

by hamburgers costing $57 in restaurants and not by, am I about to be knifed? Am I going to encounter an incredible sculptress who will show me, you know, the ways of downtown New York? Like the energies are just so changed. It's so the city is very corporate now. It's very kind of polished and shiny. I mean, think of Soho. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's where there's is. The version of Soho in this movie versus the Soho now. It's that there's no relation. It's like a corporate epicenter now. And in this movie, it's just, it's a, it's a freewheeling thing. And that's a great part of the idea of the movie, which is it's a movie about somebody from the square world that Soho now looks like, but is more uptown.

And what happens when an uptown square guy, the yuppie guy, enters the world of the artist, the world of the drug user, the world of the rebel, the world of the untamed. And what happens when he gets inside of that space? And what does it do to him? What does it make, how does it make him feel? So such a cool idea for a movie and a way to kind of platform this very particular time in the city's history. There's only two cities in America that when you landed them and you're trying to navigate them just seemed completely overwhelming. The other one is Los Angeles.

For the opposite reason, though, where like you don't know in Atlanta, you don't... You know, where stuff begins and ends. You can't walk anywhere. No. You know, at least you get this grid-like experience in New York where it's like all the streets are numbered. Yeah. You're moving up and down or east to west. And you can always kind of feel like...

There's water both ways. Yes. You know when you've hit the end of any side? Yeah. It's a little different if you're in Brooklyn or the Bronx or Queens. It's way more confusing. In L.A., I've got my sister in town and we're just driving around the city. And it's like there's no way to make any logical sense of it experientially, at least here.

And this is part of my picking nits too, so I'll wait for that. But New York is like very conquerable. True. You know, like... Once you understand it. But there's so many different pockets. True. I didn't really fully understand that until the late 90s.

I just didn't understand where anything was in relation to anything else. Like, people are like, oh, they're from Brooklyn. I'm like, I don't know where that is. I don't know where that is compared to this. And eventually in your head, the map kind of settles. We also had no nav systems until the 2000s. So the thing that I did for years when I lived in the city was anytime I'd be on the subway, I'd just look at the subway map.

And I would just study the subway map like it was a test. And I would try to learn it as best I can. And then something really interesting happened to me in 2004, which is that the city experienced an MTA strike. So there were no subway trains running at all in New York City. So everyone walked to work. Wow. So I walked down every day.

I want to say it was Third Avenue. And I walked with... Was this when you were working a vivid video? It was pre-vivid. Okay. It was before I unsheathed the weapons. No, I think I was working at Complex Magazine. And I walked, we lived on 96th and 3rd.

Yeah. And I walked every day to 42nd and 6th. for like whatever, however long that strike ended like six weeks maybe. It's like a 45 minute walk. It was a long walk. But when you're out walking and there's no other way to get around, then you're like, let's walk downtown and go to a restaurant. Let's walk over the bridge and see what we can get,

what trouble we can get into in Brooklyn. And then that just becomes like a little bit more comfortable where you know on foot where you're headed at all times. Whereas Paul Hackett in this movie, he doesn't even come downtown. As soon as he gets downtown, he's lost. Which is an interesting thing about the city is like, if you're afraid of it, it can eat you up. And that's kind of what happens to him in the movie.

Yeah, I never got a handle on it. I started going back a lot for ESPN in the 2000s. And the corporate hotels would always be in different spots that we stayed at. So sometimes it would be like Trump Plaza in Central Park. Other times it was way down toward, you know, Soho or Battery Park. Yeah. And then eventually the city like fell in the place of my head. But it's...

When you were an adult, though, would you have nights where you guys would go out to dinner after work and then have a couple drinks and then find yourself, wandering until 4 o'clock in the morning? Yeah, where you're just in a cab and it was like, we should go this place. This place, my buddy works here and you're just, but the cabs, I always appreciate the cabs thing versus what it's like out here.

Because the difference in L.A. since, even like before I moved here, like if you watched Swingers and everybody's in their cars and they have like multiple scenes where the five guys are driving in their cars. Now, like, Uber Lyft L.A. is a little different, I think. It is. That shift happened exactly when I moved here.

to work for you. It was almost exactly in 2012 when you could feel Uber really like arriving in the city and so the designated driver as an idea kind of went out the window. Last night we went out and I didn't have a drop of alcohol

because I was driving around the city everywhere we went. Every spot that we stopped into. So it's a big change. In New York, you can get ripped shit at 8 p.m. and be out for another eight hours. It's just a totally different experience.

Well, so let's talk to New York piece first and then we'll talk about Scorsese. Because so Griffin Dunn was talking about who's the star of the movie. And he's talking about this is, there's a normal history about the movie that's good. But he says the events of after hours were not dissimilar from my life at that time. I would make immediate connections with total strangers and end up in places that it might not have been a good idea to be in. That's why young people came to New York to have experiences that were terrifying,

exhilarating, sexy and dangerous. So that's like 70s, first half of the 80s, New York that, we love, it's been very romanticized. It's been a lot of good TV shows and movies and different things. Yeah, the time of Sydney Lumet, you know, the Serpico New York, the hard-bitten city. It's a little dangerous, but a little exciting. Yeah, so there's been like the dangerous genre movies. There's been like the super fun New York's alive kind of movies, but you also have Saturday

lives there and you have this crazy disco scene and punk music and just everything's happening. And it just seems like a really exciting place. But then you could have nights like this where you meet. you mean a girl and you end up and you don't know where you are and it just feels like you've entered this alternate universe which is one of the best things about this movie it's just fucking weird the entire time it's a it's a it's a dark side of the yellow brick road kind of a movie and literally he's walking down brick roads in this neighborhood and it is like very much a wizard of Oz kind of homage and it's like if dorothy instead walked into the black and white darkness

rather than the color that she walks into and she enters Oz that's the idea you're supposed to have Seems like he's going to have one of the most fun nights of his life. He's picked up a hot girl in a diner. And he's going to have fun and he's going to explore the downtown scene. He's going to meet a hot sculptor. And he's going to experience a certain kind of culture that's a little far away from him. And then it goes bad. And then it goes worse.

Yeah. So the cocainey screwball paranoia era, can we call it? Sure. After hours into the night, desperately seeking Susan, something wild. There's something. Those first three are all 1985. Right. Which is so interesting that, like, you can feed.

all the creative people are all kind of feeling the same way about what it's like to go out at that stage of their lives, which is so interesting. Well, it's either people who were on cocaine or people who had just quit cocaine or people who had been around a lot of cocaine. There's like an energy to these movies that I think would just be weird now.

I totally agree. And these people were entrusted with millions of dollars to make these movies. Right. Scorsese, it seems like he's in the aftermath of his craziest error. Well, I can't wait to talk about that. You know, like he's not at the peak of the mania. of him using when he's making this movie.

It feels like he's channeling. But he lived it for previous experiences. Yes. Yes. And then it seems like some of the people that are in this movie are in the middle of it. Like Griffith Dunn's pretty open about it. Yes. That John Hurd, who plays the bartender, and they were like, this perfect casting because

in real life, this guy was just taking it down all over town. Well, think about just the production of the movie is they just had to be up all night every night. The movie was only shot at night. So you got to be up five to five. What's the best way to stay up in those off hours, you know? can't even imagine. It was also a polarizing movie. Paul and Kale hated it.

Shocking. I think she just lost her way in the mid-80s. Yeah. That's the recurring theme. She got cynical. She got better. She really did. The pieces are still really so well-written,

but she doesn't really have her finger on the pulse anymore. The critics did not like it, which I thought was fascinating. But there's a Scorsese piece of this, though. We just got to do the deep dive. I reread a part of Martin Scorsese a jerk. this week, which... I reread the Biscan book

for all the Scorsese parts. I read a couple other things. Yeah, I mean, it's all documented. It's all out there. Yeah. Basically breaks down from cocaine in 1978. Yep. After he's done New York, New York, which bombs.

And is going to die. His body's just full of blood and poison. And they're basically like, we don't know how you're not dead yet, but you have to cut all this cold turkey. Famously asthmatic already not, you know. He's just dying. Yeah.

All his friends are like, you're going to die. What are you doing? And then ends up making Raging Bowl with De Niro. Which he feels like as a massive failure because it doesn't do well and then it doesn't win the best film Oscar. Correct. And yet it wasn't a massive failure because then as the years passed, everyone thinks it's one of the best movies of the 80s. Plus De Niro wins best actor. It was acclaimed at the time, too.

But he for some reason felt like he failed. It was not a huge box office success. It kind of had like a real kind of middling reception. but it was, I mean, it was nominated for eight Oscars, Raging Bull. It remains a masterpiece. Hard movie to watch, but a masterpiece. I don't really fully understand it, but his cohorts, which we've talked about before on this, Lucas is now a megastar.

Spielberg is about to be a megastar again with E.T. and Raiders and everything, poltergeist, everything that's happened with him. Well, think about we did Close Encounters and Star Wars recently, both in 77, and his movie in 77 is New York, New York, famous bomb. And then he's kind of spiraling there. It's those two. It's De Palma. It's a whole bunch of people.

But two of the guys are ascending. And then him and Coppola, Coppa has one from the heart in 82. Similar disaster. And bankrupts his studio. Scorsese feels like he can't buy a break. He's trying to get Last Temptation of Christ done. Nobody will do it. Well, it's a great story about what happens with it.

Because it's about to happen. I mean, it's this famous novel written about the sort of human of Christ, which is like, what if Christ was actually a person who is susceptible to lust, human desire, a decision to maybe go against the path of God that is, that we all understand. We just accept the Christ as this, like, perfectly moral figure. And this novel kind of reckons with this idea. And Scorsese, almost all of his movies are about faith and redemption. He's obsessed.

He's a Catholic. And he's like a died in the wool Catholic, but he's like, I'm a flawed person. We're all flawed people. It's his dream to make a movie about Christ as a flawed person. and explore what that means. And he's trying to get it made it Paramount. He's trying to shoot it

in Israel, in the Holy Land. And Paramount's like, what about aliens? Literally. They're like, why would we spend $10 million?

And there starts to be a letter writing campaign from one of the Catholic leagues. And they get 500 letters a day. Do not let Martin Scorsese make a movie about Christ and not this novel for sure. Yeah.

And they buckle. And they cancel the movie. He was going to make the movie. He had a budget. He had a cast. I think at the time it was, Aidan Quinn was going to play Jesus Christ.

De Niro did not want to play Christ. Smart. I'm doing this because we'll never do the Last Temptation of Christ on the rewatchables, I assume. I really like the soundtrack. It is a good soundtrack. I was really cranking it in the late 80s. Peter Gabriel.

It is Peter Gabriel. So Aiding Quinn is Christ. Harvey Kytel is Judas. Do you want to do Last Temptation of Christ? I think Stain is PILITES? Yeah. It's fucking, I don't even think they showed on TV anymore. But the version that eventually got made,

which is like seven or eight years later is Willem Defoe plays Christ. But the version that they were going to do is it's just, it's a massive, it is one of the massive sliding doors in movie history because him not making it leads to him making this movie and a couple of other movies

that are really interesting. And I will posit, this is not even my hot take, but I will posit, I don't know if Goodfellas happens. I think, if this movie doesn't happen. You're 100% right. So it's good, it's kind of good that that movie got canceled,

even though it was so heartbreaking for him and he needed to retreat so bad. He felt like he was as low as he'd ever been after they canceled. Well, and we didn't mention King of Comedy, which bombs. Yes. And he does that as a favorite of Zadero. Yes. That movie bombs.

He can't get Last Temptation of Christ done. And he just feels like I've blown my shot. I'm going to be the promising director that people talk about 40 years from now. And I fucked it up. Yeah, which is interesting too, because he had already made Mean Streets. Alice doesn't live here anymore. Raging Bull. Like, he'd already done enough to be.

I know, but his friend. friends are making billion-dollar movies. You're right. You're right. So Biscan said he met with Fox about King of Comedy and why they didn't support it. Okay. This is Corsese's quote. They explained that it didn't pay for them to support King of Comedy any further at the

box office, so after a month they're going to pull it. The same thing happened that year at Fox with Robert Allman's health. They didn't even release the film. Altman didn't do another studio picture for like 10 years. I realized at that point, cared. And that was when I really understood that the 70s were over for me, that the directors, the ones with the personal

voices had lost. The studios got the power back. Today you look at an ad. You don't even know who directed a picture. We were talking about this with the Star Wars pod. This is kind of the culmination for him realizing like, we're fucked. Coppola went the other way and he's like, we don't need the studios. I'll pay for everything

myself. And it's like, yeah, you just went bankrupt. This is why we need the studios because they're taking a bunch of different bets. Some work, some don't. If you're just like doing a studio where you're making all the bets yourself, good luck. Coppola is still convinced, though, that this is the right way. This is how he did Megalopolis. There are some guys who think to be independent is better, and then there are some people

who do the devil's bargain of working with the big company so that they can get the thing that they want. But Scorsese was right. This was the era of die hard and lethal weapon. It was coming, yeah. And Simpson and Bruckheimer. And that's where everything was, you know, flash dance. Like, that's where Hollywood was going and the Hollywood that he had so much success in.

I wonder what made him, because when he's making this, that's, that. That's all just starting. It's like that's 85 is First Blood, 2. Rambo First. The Rambo's called. Everl those cop hits. All the Schwartz and Nigger stuff starting.

Back to the future. Then they sign up two sequels for that. And something's shifting and he's seeing it. And he's like, this is bad for me. There's a flip side to that coin that we don't talk about as much on the show, which is that they're- I love all those movies?

Well, those movies are good. It's not that. It's that there is still a kind of, otorist Hollywood, but it's very respectable and stuffy. Like the movie that won best picture in 1985 is out of Africa. Right. So there is still a version of movie making that is important and culturally meaningful, quote, unquote. But it's not cool and it's not exciting and audacious the way that the new Hollywood guys were.

Like the movies that are nominated that year, Color Purple, Kiss of the Spider Woman, Pritzie's Honor by John Houston and Witness. Peter Weir's a great filmmaker. John Houston's a great filmmaker. Those are not like the most audited. movies of their careers. So that crew of guys have either become blockbuster filmmakers or they're starting to kind of get left behind a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

And so that's, I'm sure what he was feeling. It felt like, it felt like this in the time. And then even as we look back when we do all these older ones, like that first half of the 80s especially, there was a certain, like Oscars had a type. Mm-hmm. And it was like, oh, it's big, lavish. And there's a cool trailer. Yeah.

It's based on something. There's a really cool theme song. and that's just kind of what worked. And the stuff Scorsese was doing, I think when he lost Raging Bull to ordinary people when he lost the best film, and he was like devastated.

But like we did ordinary people. That movie was really good. Yeah. I don't, I mean, it's better than out of Africa. Yeah, there's been some other Oscar ones where we're like, oh my God. Yeah, wow, how did that happen? I don't know if that's one of those for me.

We just talked about this with Gandhi, too. What did Gandhi beat famously? something else that was just like so clearly the superior film in our opinion. It was E.T. Yeah. So, you know, there's. But that's the Oscars had a type. And then as we kind of moved into the 90s, that flip.

But so anyway, he needs a job. Mm-hmm. He said, I thought it would be interesting to see if I could go back and do something a very fast way, all style and exercise completely in style. And I think this is why I love this movie. And it's so weird. And I have a complicated relationship with this movie. because I don't really enjoy it that much as an experience because it's so stressful.

It's very stressful. But it's so artfully done and it's so weird that it's just kind of riveting. But it's a weird one. It's not like one of those who would be like say to your wife, like, let's Friday night, let's bang out after hours. This is just in this weird area over here. It's funny that you say that because my wife does love this movie. This is one of her favorites because it's not that violent.

So obviously I watch a lot of Scorsese. movies at home and most of his movies are defined by the relationship to violence. This movie has some violence, but it's kind of jokey. It's really just about a guy who keeps getting stuck and screwed and more stress and more stress as time goes by. So for me, it is an all-time personal favorite. I'm really just stoked that we're even talking about it right now because, you know, I have some anxiety.

You know, I've certainly felt like this is a good representation of a certain kind of a guy who wants to have fun, but maybe he doesn't realize what it means to try to have fun. Like, it's a very representative movie. It's also, like, it's loaded with ideas. Like, the whole movie is, like, a castration examination of every time a guy

gets close to a woman. Something bad happens. He wants to sleep with her, but it's, like, a little bit dangerous and, you know, the sort of fear and desire that goes into being a man at this time in history. And the movie is populated by all these beautiful women, and the sense of like a guy

who doesn't know how to really engage with any of them even if he thinks he does. So for all those reasons, it's a lot of fun. But the style thing that you pointed out is the number one reason. Because this is him making a big shift. And he kind of has stayed in this style of movie ever since. He'll have the occasional, like he made Kunda

and he made The Last Temptation of Christ. He makes some movies that are silenced. His religious movies are slower-paced and more painterly, I would say. Age of Innocence is a little. But this movie cuts fast. The camera moves fast. It's rock and roll energy.

And you said, like, the way that Goodfellas looks and feels, it starts right here and it starts because of Michael Ballhouse. Does June close ups up a clock? Yes. You know, there's that famous shot in this movie where the camera like whips in on Marcy right before she walks out the door and winks at Griffin Dunn. And you're like, that's good fellas. Yeah.

It's not, nobody has a gun in their hand, but it's that feeling of like. Or a key going into the door, close up with the key. Yes. And that film is a filmmaker cut, cut, cut, cut. There's so many tricks. So that energy is so, it's just so fun to watch a movie that feels like that. I think he's one of the only directors. You know, he's talked about with writers.

If you could cover the byline of a piece of your writing and know who the writer is, then that writer, you know, the writer's doing something right. Be like, oh, I know who that is. Hey, you were one of those guys. Oh, thank you. Tyler Parker's like that. 100%. Cover the byline.

It's like, that's Tyler Parker. Yep. Scorsese is the highest compliment, I think you can pay a right. It's a good one. Scorsese definitely, there's some sort of style that he has that you can, you can be like, I bet if somebody just blindfold it or he had amnesia and you came out of it and you're like, guess what director is? He's one of the few that I feel like I would know who the director is. You know what's cool with him too?

He's also one who if you, if you blindfolded yourself and just listened to the music in a movie, you'd be able to know right away. Because this is the same thing as Goodfellas, too, where it's like heavy score, 50s needle drops, punk rock. No Rolling Stones somehow. No Rolling Stones, that's true. Can't believe he didn't work in like dead flowers or just some sort of random.

What was the Stones records like in the 80s? I'm not as up on the stones in the 80s. He could have dipped right into Tattoo You and done something from that. Kind of like fake disco stuff that they were doing. Yeah, that could have worked. Well, Scorsese loved it. And he called this movie, kind of a miracle,

a rejuvenation. Every time I put my eye of the viewfinder, I was happy. I could sit down, look at the set with detachment. It was a great feeling.

I regained the freedom I felt when I was starting out. It was a real gift. It made me think like, and we talked about Kugler, I remember with somebody on Ringer movies, about how I would just wish

he made more movies, which is like kind of like a shitty thing to say in some ways. It's like, I wish you did your job more, you know. You just wish you had more of his movies to watch.

I just wish sometimes great directors would just be like, fuck it. I'm just going to do this movie for four months. Like Soderberg's really good at this. He'll just be like, fuck it. I'm going to make a movie. I'm just going to bang one out. I like this script. It'll take three months.

We'll see how it goes. Some of it depends on how you work, though. Like Soderberg shoots and edits his movies. He holds the camera when he makes the movie. He is doing everything. And so for him, he cuts the movie together while he's making it because it's all on his head. Yeah. he's an alien

You know what I mean? Like so he, of course, he's going to end his career with like 95 movies. It's amazing. And he's constantly working. Cougler is trying to make 100 million dollar movies

and they take years to put together and you got to make sure that all the stars are available at the right time. You got to make sure all the, your crew is ready to do it. But I just wish I could see Ryan Cougars after hours

where he was just like, yeah, it's just everything takes place in one day and I did some weird shit. But you can only make movies like after hours when you're low. True. You know,

Or you could decide to make a small movie, but, you know, he felt like he was at the bottom. You know, Google was at the top. He's been at the top for 10 years. So Stan Kubrick is another one. Yeah, he took his time. Stan, huh? Stan. Yeah, my guy, Stan.

Stan. Stan. Interesting. I call him Stan. He was a New Yorker. Just throw a buddy cop, New York Buddy Cop movie. Just randomly. I'll tell you, he would direct a hell out of a buddy guy.

Dyerhard 3. Would watch it. Would have been great. I wouldn't take McTiernan in away from Die Hard 3, but I would watch Stan Kubrick's diehard I'm not going to forget Stan Kubrick. Our guy's Stan. You think you get along with Kubrick?

Think you'd be boys? I think it's, I think what he did to Cruz and Kidman, where he was just clearly trying to break them emotionally. It was really the most interesting thing he did. You related to that. No, just that he was like, this marriage is so fascinating to me. I'm just going to make them do

scene after scene after scene and see what can happen here. a filmmaking style. Should we do the re-eyes while it shut and do it live in the weird in London?

Just me and you? Just looking at each other the whole time. So Griffin Dunn said I think it's great. Yeah. I love the way, he's talking about the movie,

I love the way he goes through the night and finally comes out on the other side. It's like a sleepness night, a night of horrifying dreams. You're floating through another world with no idea of wonder how it would resolve. I wonder if that's what

attracted Scorsese to this too that this is like almost like a fever nightmare. God only knows what kind of baggage he had from 76, 77, 78. Yeah, I'm sure

you're almost like in a sinkhole of a day. Yeah. I think he's also probably interested in surreal art and most of his art up until this point is pretty realistic.

You know, pretty dramatically realistic. You know, taxi driver does kind of feel like a nightmare at times. But Raging Bull, shot in black and white, almost feels like documentary. It's somebody put a camera in Jake Lamata's family's house. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm not supposed to be seeing this.

So this is tremendously different with the way the camera's moving like we're talking about, the way that things keep escalating and getting worse and worse. And this feeling of just like, it's almost like, you know, feeling when like a bug is crawling on you and you're itching and you're like, God, get that off of me. Like the movie kind of feels like that sometimes. And he's just well suited to it. And maybe he is just channeling those Koki nights, you know,

So many nights of being completely consumed by baby Coke daddy. Plus, like, nobody had any idea how bad Coke was for you. Yeah. Like, hey, is this bad for us? I don't know. Jenny's in the bathroom with her nose bleeding, but I think she'll be okay. After this movie, Goodfellas is five years later. Yeah.

He also does Last Temptation of Christ. Kind of writes the shit, but then Goodfellas is when. Well, you're forgetting two things that I think are pretty critical. One is the color of money. And the color of money filmmaking style. And that same thing, that camera is flying across the pool table. And I think it's because he's working with Michael Bauhaus. So Michael Ballhouse is German cinematographer.

C.R's guy. C.R.'s guy. They start working together. Ballhouse, I have. They make seven movies together, all bangers. And he's the one who with Thelma Schoonemakers editing style. They build this kind of new version of the Scorsese movie. So you got color of money.

And then the second thing that I've really liked that is a little underrated. is his segment of New York stories, which is called Life Lessons. It's Nick Nolte and Rosanna Arquette. Nick Nolte plays a painter, and Rosanna Arquette plays like his assistant and former lover. If people haven't seen it,

it's a weird movie. It's a trilogy. It's like an omnibus movie. Woody Allen, Francis Ford Coppola, and Scorsese make a part of those movies. Scorses is by far the best to me. But those movies are... Coppola is pretty rough.

It stars his daughter, Sophia. Yeah. And she's very young. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't say Woody's is very good either, to be honest. But I love life lessons. And so this little pocket of time is what takes us to Goodfellas,

Cape Fear, Casino. Like those movies wouldn't happen without these movies. Let's take a break and then we'll talk about the ladies in this movie. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of decisions big and small. And sometimes you make one. You can really stand behind. I did this a few times of my life,

especially in the mid-2000s after I left Grantland and ESPN. And I was like, you know what? I still think there's an idea for a company that could really work. And then the ringer, and now we're 10 years later. We're still here. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm, a personal price plan,

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Just quick on the cast because it's all over the place. And I have a different spot for Griffin Dunn. Okay. But Roseanne Arquette and Linda Fiorentino in the same movie. I don't even know really how to describe this as a kid who was alive in 1985, two of the greats. Furentino. This is being recorded.

Yeah, I got it. I was 16. Rosanna Arquette is otherworldly in this movie. She in 1985 is in Silverado after hours and desperately seeking Susan. I wrote this down too, yeah. Cooking.

And if somebody at age 16 would come up to me and said, you could make out with her, be you have to kill three people. I would have been like, which three? A close friend or like an acquaintance? Just pick the three. The president.

You can spend 24 hours with her. You have to kill 10 people. Would you have killed Ronald Reagan for Rosanna, or Ken? Answer the question. And she was also an executioner song with Tommy Lee Jones, which is where I first saw her, which is a TV movie. She was so beautiful and so idiosyncratically striking. There's really nobody like her.

And her personality, her speaking voice, everything about her is just intoxicating in this movie. I do this sometimes on the. rewatchables where I always get mad that somebody didn't wasn't in more good stuff she's like a first ballot for me for I just don't understand it and the parts must have been so bad and I think there was this mentality in the 80s and 90s where oh somebody had their moment for a year let's move on to the next actress and you just kind of got left behind it's so funny that tarantino that's what I was going to say but he did that's why he did this yeah because he was like yeah she was like she's right there I know I know she's the one with all the shit on her face

That's my wife. Trudy, yeah. But, yes, it's just, I don't understand it. I don't know. Stop bothering me. That's my favorite, Eric Stoltz, too. Every moment she's in the movie, you're like, can she be in the movie more? I know.

It's a, I don't know if it's a what-if. And she did cool stuff. Like, she's in Croningberg's Crash. She was in, like, Buffalo 66. She was in some cool movies later on. But she could have been, should have been just a big mainstream movie star. Obviously, her whole family is in the movies. I was going to do this later.

I'll do it now. I don't know, Meg Ryan, some of the parts Meg Ryan had from basically the late 80s on. People might scoff. She could have had half of those. People might scoff at that. But if you watch her in Desperately Seeking Susan, that's a Meg Ryan part. You know what I mean? Like she, it's the same kind of a character where you're like with her, she's the empathetic, like regular girl.

She could have been when Harry Met Sally easily. I totally agree. It's a weird one. I feel like she could have been Kelly McGillis and Top Gun. Yeah, definitely. You pick a movie from 86 to like 90s. and I feel like she could have been the lead. Dude, I'm so with you.

I just loved her. And I also, this is a big reason why I have such a big relation to the ship to this movie is because I'm like, this is the Roseanne Arquette movie. This is the movie that like got her the most right out of any movie. You know, she's good in like eight million ways to die and stuff like that. But this is the one where she, you can feel Scorsese idealizing that feeling when you meet somebody and you're like, whoa, who is she? Yeah.

I want to be closer to her. Here's who she was. Toto was like, what's, Write Rosanna about Rosanna-Arquette because she walked into the room and we fucking had to write a song about it. It was that spectacular. As captured in the Yot Rock documentary, yes. I don't understand if some people are just obviously movie stars, I don't understand how some of them don't end up in better movies. Farentino is a little more easy to understand because this is CR who couldn't be here because he's away.

We didn't intentionally not have CR in this. He's just not here. No, I said stay home, Chris. I got this. We were maybe a little worried about. the Fierentino part because we might have to hose him down. I asked him if he had one

thing for CR to say in the pod. Can I guess what he said? Yeah. I want her to step on my neck. No. No, he said, can you please say that Linda Furentino is a CR, throw your life away, Hall of Famer? Yeah. Especially

in this movie. I probably would have said that anyway, but fine. Rip in heaters making plaster of Paris, Edward Munch. First time you say she's in a bra for no reason. And she's just taking her top off in front of strangers. Interesting movie. She's in this and Vision Quest in the same year.

Vision Quest, which is, we already did that on the rewatchables. Yeah. But the premise of a high school kid and this hot lady is staying in the upstairs room and there's no way she'd have sex of them. He's only 17 and the entire, the whole movie hinges on it. And then guess what they have said? She, that's the wrestling movie? Yeah.

Okay. Matt Modine. What's the cycling movie? movie that Matt Modine was in? Or am I thinking of Kevin Bacon? What's his cycle? That's Quicksilver. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Yeah. He was in a sailing movie, Wind, with Jennifer Gray, Matthew Modian. Haven't seen it. Yeah. Tubey. Got it.

So Linda Farentino. Mm-hmm. Red hot. Yep. And then just stops acting for like two years. Doesn't like it. And then just kind of bounces back and forth. Yeah.

That's what I'm going to do with potting. I'm taking two years off. Where's Sean? He's just gone for two years. I'm coming back with my last seduction. But she cut. She has the ability to come in just red hot for like two scenes. And a couple directors realized that some other ones did in.

She got kind of typecast as the femme fatale. There was, I think, a bunch of other stuff she could have done that they never really unlocked. Real mixed reports on how fun she was to work with over the years. It seems like, yeah, that's, she's definitely when they talk about the difficult actress group, she gets thrown in there. She does. But when she's on the screen, not looking away. She's a presence. What's she up to?

She is a presence. This is an apartment that features Linda Fiorentino and Rosanne Arquette living together at this time. Unbelievable. It's a lot. CR never would have been seen again. No.

He just would have been in plaster. No. He would have been forced. He would have been in all leather. And then Terry Gar? Yeah, CR is worst. Can we Photoshop that? Yes.

That should be the image that we share this episode with. Terry Gar also on a heater in the mid-80s because this is when she's one of Letterman's best guess. She's an established a famous actress from Tootsie and Close Encounters She's hilarious in this movie Yeah

And this is like Just Terry Garby and Terragher An amazing, amazing letter me guess For the first four years Like probably the queen of her She just had like such a good chemistry with him He did a whole They were flirty together

Super flirty He did the famous episode she did was He did a whole show in his office Mm-hmm They just filmed it in the office And it was like this experimental show in the office and at the end of it, he convinced her to take a shower in his bathroom. And she came out with all these towels on.

And she's like, I can't believe you're making me do this. And then she went in. They made it so they covered everything. You couldn't say anything. And he just basically dared her to take a shower and she did it. And she's just like fucking crazy. Think that would happen today? It would not.

Okay. It would not. But she was like ready. She would go on and she would be ready for anything with Letterman. And she would go back and forth. And you're always like, why don't these two end up together? It's funny because she. is so good as

the woman who like grabs on a little too quick. Yeah, yeah. She's like a little too interested. Yeah, and you're like and he's got this other girl in the back of his head and he's kind of been thrown off the send but she's very good at that clingy thing. And then Catherine O'Hara. Who I think, I'm just gonna say it. I think looks smoking hot in this movie. She looks great. And we don't think

of her that way. She looks like Jennifer Anderson. She, you know, it's like that's the mom from home alone. She's gone on to be this like beloved character actors. Yeah. Beetlejuice. Like lots and lots of parts. In this movie, as the Mr. Softie lady. Chef's Kiss. I love it.

Yeah, it taps into something that I don't really think she did in any other movie. Yeah, and you know, she had been... I guess maybe Best in Show is the other one. Yeah. When, I forget what her character name is,

but she had a history. Yeah. Everybody she met. There's some sort of like energy with her that SCTB hit and then in movies and then eventually she became home alone lady for a while. Yeah,

but she is like, she has a sexiness to her that she doesn't, is not usually asked this happen to because she's usually just playing moms. She's good in this. Yeah. 4.5 million dollar budget made 10.6 million. Not great. Not great.

Raj. Four stars. Put it on his great movies list. Scorsese's attempt continues to combine comedy and satire with unrelenting pressure and a sense of all-pervading paranoia. All-pervading paranoia.

Pretty much right. Bigot book. Pauline Kale. Scorsese is using his skills and even his personality like a hired hand making a vacuous, polished piece of consumer goods

all surface. That's surprising. That's gonna get a fuck you, Pauline, for me. First ever we've had. I've had a few fuck you, Rajas. I have to do fuck you Pauline on that. Do you think we should do a social media breakout of you cursing out prominent critics of the time?

String it all together. Vacuous, polished piece of consumer goods. Talk about missing the movie. That is a gross misunderstanding. How are you doing? You know, I think about this sometimes doing the big picture. Like, we know a little bit too much about how movies are made, right? We know a little bit too much about the production, the backstory.

Yeah. Like F1 is out this weekend. And that's a movie that was made during the strikes and we did it were rewrites and that reshoots. And you bring some of that stuff to the conversation. So her saying that this is just like an assignment job, you know, that she's using that as a lens. to analyze the movie as opposed to just looking objectively at the movie. You can't. There's no way to separate the two things

so I understand, but we don't think about the movie in that way. When I saw it, I didn't think like, oh, this is just Scorsese taking a job so he can get back on the track so that he can eventually make a lot of temptation of Christ. Why can't he do that? I agree. He can't fucking get a job? Maybe he couldn't find a better movie.

I don't know. That's very strange. Bad take. Bad take by Pauline. Categories. Most rewatchable scene. Rose and Arquette's first scene in the diner. Some good camera work going on in that one too. I love that book. Fiorentino backrobs scene.

I have that. I wrote down, this is one of my favorite dumb movie devices when somebody's telling a long story that somehow gets rudely interrupted or we never find out the punchline or the money shot of the story. This one's particularly good

because he realizes she's asleep just as he's about to complete the story and we never know what happens. I love when they do that. That night, at least I think it was night. I reached up. Untied a blindfold. I saw. One of my favorites is Halloween, the original one.

Loomis was looking for Myers' grave, and the Undertaker is telling this long story. And then he showed up, and he's like, where are we? It just interrupts him. We never find out what happened. That's the carpenter's sense of humor. The diner scene with Marcy the second time. It really seems like it's happening.

Yes, yes. And the guy who runs the diner says the title in the movie. Dick Miller, yeah, legendary that guy. The subway token scene I have. Mm-hmm. When the guy won't let him go for an extra dollar. Yeah, the fair went up at midnight. And Griffin Dunn looks around and he's like, who's going to know?

And he's like, I can go to a party, get drunk. Tell somebody, who knows? I love that guy. That's so funny. Marcy dying. even though I have some other thoughts on it, but it fucking kills me when he puts the side up. When he puts the dead body with the arrow?

Yeah, that is very funny. It's just like so, we're on another level of black comedy with that. She just killed herself in the bedroom. He's like dead body. The moment before that, though, it's so funny to me when he's removing the blanket to reveal that she doesn't have any burns.

Right. And he's like, damn it, I shouldn't have left. I could have slept with her and she could have not killed herself. This is the darkest, dark comedy. It's so good. It's blacker than black. It's like a purple comedy.

The Terry Garcine is just really funny. She's dialing it up. I think the terminal bar in general, going to the bar where her is the bartender and she's like slipping him the notes and her can't get the cash register open. All that stuff is so great. And that's like your classic,

what the hell is going on here in New York City Bar. It's like 1.30 in the morning. There's four people there. There's the leather guys. I can't work the cash register. It won't open. And that is a very, I mean, that New York is still alive. Like, that's a thing you can find today.

The punk rock club, punk punk rock club? Yes. When they're like, Mohawk this guy. Club Berlin. Yeah. The Catherine Harris seen in the apartment when he's trying to remember the phone number and she's just saying other numbers, which is something I did for 30 years. Now you don't, everyone has the numbers.

I do it to my wife all the time. It's a great bit. It is a great bit. She'd be like, okay, so it's two, five. And I'd back five, nine, eight, seven. I think, but that came from this movie. I'd never seen anyone do that. You just kind of distilled your sense of humor right there.

Yeah, that's it. There's nothing funny in that. Five, eight, six, two, don't. Nine, three, eight, zero. Now I have forgotten the number. What is wrong with you? Are you all right? The Verna Bloom is that,

there is. You got all my ones. And then I like the ending. I know the ending is super polarizing. They couldn't come up with one. We could talk about it in the research. The drop off in the van or the end credit sequence around the office. No, the dropout.

I like that he's kidnapped in this van. I mean, they don't know they're kidnapping him. And then they turn and he just fall. I actually think it works. It's a great story about what happened. And they were so upset about that, oh, we couldn't come up with the ending. We had to throw this together. I'm like, that ending's great.

Great guys. It's really, really clever. It's perfect. It's almost like he woke up from a dream because he ends up where he started. Like, how do they feel bad about that inning? I don't know. I think it's great too. And I even just that final thing where the camera's kind of whipping around that office space over the end credits, I just think it's such a per-it's almost like his mind is spinning inside.

Yeah. Trying to remember like, did that really just happen to me? It's such a good idea. Yeah. So what do you have for most rewatchable? I mean, the one that is the most iconic to me is the diner conversation between Rosanna Arquette and Greta and Greta. and done. The second one or the first one?

The second one. The second one where she's like, my husband was a movie freak. He loved to watch The Wizard of Oz over and over again. Surrender Dorothy. All that stuff is just so like baked into the mythos of this movie for me. So that's my favorite. I have that as well. Surrender Dorothy is high comedy.

It's hilarious. I don't even understand it. I don't know how any writer would come up with that idea. We didn't talk about the background with Joseph Minion, the guy who wrote the movie. But he wrote it when he was 21. It was his senior thesis when he was in film school. and it got bought and then hung around for a few years, five years. But a lot of the stuff in the first half is all his.

It's like stuff that he was writing. And I think he got an A plus on his thesis. I would hope so. And then it went on to get sold as this like study of the male mind in New York City at night. And then I think a lot of the back half is very Scorsese-e-eyed. I would have got a Joe Minion. That's my screen name. Joey Minion?

Or Joseph. Minion. Joey Bats Minion? Joseph Minion sounds like you were a philosopher in the 1500s. Oh, I mean, he's a philosopher. Joseph Minion book. Yeah. What's the most 1985 thing about this movie?

I had four. Did you have a pick? I have one obvious one, which is just Soho in the 80s. That just Soho doesn't look like this anymore. You still have those kind of cobblestoneish brick streets and you still have those kind of tenement style buildings, but there's just like, you know, J. Crew and Lombon down there now, you know, and like $8 coffee shops. And then some dushy people, too.

Let's be honest. A lot of dushy people. Sorry. Soho. I mean, you hate New York. You can say it out loud. I don't hate New York. No, I like New York.

I just don't like getting there. I don't realize why it's like going to London now. It's like. Because the airport? Everything. Just you land. And then it's another two. plus hours to get in the city. It's no walk in the park. I'm in LAX. I mean, that's not, you know.

I also don't like the power walking situation in New York City these days with all the bikes. Oh, yeah. That's fair. And guess what? Maybe legalizing everybody being able to smoke pot and blow pot smoke. I'm no stranger to pot, but I should be able to walk three blocks with the, I hate the pot smoke thing in general. And that sounds like an old guy. Wow. Let's have some respect for people with kids pushing strollers. We went to a party last night, across street from the party. 7-11, we're walking through the 7-Eleven parking lot. There's a guy smoking a joint in the parking lot right next to a police cruiser. And I was like, picture this 20 years ago.

That guy would have been thrown in the clink. Why do I have to smell the second-hand pot smoke? I don't care. Just let people live. You know, just let them do what they want to buy a bike. So you don't want to be power walking in New York, but you do want to power walk in Los Angeles where people drive like maniacs and there are no sidewalks. Yeah.

Okay. Got it. I just, I haven't power walked in New York enough. because the whole thing where the bikes can just take the left and right turns and you just basically have to make, and I'm listening to a podcast on my headphones. What do you listen to Termini and Eddie? That's what you got fired up. I have three, I have four in 1985 things about this movie. Okay.

Opening credits. The Geffen Company Presents. Oh, good one. How many years were the Geffen Company even making movies? Yeah. I'm not that long, mostly in the 80s, but that was him like leveraging his success as a music manager. trying to get into Hollywood. Giving somebody a phone number,

I guess that's not necessarily 1985, but it's definitely 80s, 90s of like, let me write down your phone number or else there's no way to get a hold. Now we would just be like, now you would just be like, I'll call you on your phone and now you have my number.

A Bronson Pinchot cameo, young Bronson. That felt very 1985 to me. Fresh off his playing surge in Beverly Hills cop and his risky business. This was high time for him. Yeah. I mean, he's about to be Balke.

Yeah. And Perfect Strangers. You watched Perfect Strangers? I didn't. You didn't watch it? Wasn't a fan. What? Didn't really like Balke.

This is shocking. I was in high school at that point. I was too old. You think you're better than me? I just was too old. Here's my choice, though. Going all the way across Manhattan in a cab for $6.50. Ooh.

I mean, he went like 90 blocks. Also, he's holding a 20. What is that? Like 100 now? Yeah. It's like 50. It's like at least a 50. Yeah.

But yeah, $6. What is that cab right now? Oh, God. $58? Yeah. I don't know about that much. It's really expensive. Yeah, really expensive.

I don't know. I'm not in caps as much in New York as I used to be. Was there a better title for this movie? Throwing that in here. There were other titles. So it was originally called One Night in Soho. Yes, which eventually became an Edgar Wright movie. I'm not against One Night in Soho.

I think that the original script that Minion wrote was called, no, was it called Lies or was lies based on a story that there was like a theater director who had told a story similar to meeting a girl in a diner and kind of going on a journey in New York. And I think Minion based it on that. And I think that was called lies. Do we like after hours as a title? I do. I think it's perfect. You don't like it? It's fine. One night at Soho is pretty good. Yeah. And then used in a movie about the other Soho, the original Soho in London in 2020 by Iker Wright. what age the best I love this specific

data point Martin Scorsese told Griffin Dunn to refrain from sex and sleep during filming in order to get a more realistic feeling of paranoia and this is what I do before every podcast I had I had this in the Stephen Seagal

shitting on himself story that he didn't know was true or not okay that's just a great idea a weird note to give someone? Well, let's give all the back story. Okay.

This is what Griffin Dunn said. Also, I love when people talk like this about themselves. Actual quote from Griffin Dunn. Marty knew I was a single man in New York who liked to party. He knew I liked the ladies. And he said it's very important for Paul Hackett to have a look of desire in his eyes throughout the whole movie. That's what gets him in this best in the first place. So I need you not to have sex for the first eight weeks of the shoot.

I said no problem I could do that they start the massage scene on a Friday they go for the weekend and Griffin Dunn has what he calls a fucking accident hooks up with somebody Monday they're refilming the scene he's panting

touching her back and in the first take he's massaging her and Marty goes cut Griffin come here did you get laid you ruined this whole scene like he sniffed out that he got laid you fucked up this whole scene. The whole movie I trusted you and he was like really angry. It's great stuff.

How does he know? He's the master. He's the ultimate Catholic. He's the maestro. Yeah. Anyway, that story's amazing. That's a good one.

Not as good as Stevens Gall shitting on himself as he's being choked out on the set about for justice, but really good. Pretty close. Yeah. This is an amazing career you've made for yourself. Roseanne Arquette in 1985. It's got to be one of what's age the best. You already mentioned it's desperately seeking Susan.

Not just for this movie, but for life. Yeah. In the world. When was Rosanna, 84? The Toto song? I think it was like a year, maybe a year before.

We'll come back to her apex mountain, I bet. And then the big one for me with age to the best is the home alone parents preview. Yeah, I have that as well. We get one moment

where we see Catherine O'Hara and John heard talking together. We don't even hear them talk. We just see them through a window. And then soon they will be two of the most famous parents in movie history. By the way,

and looking for somebody again. That's right. Someone is lost. I have the weird New York characters, because you could even add it a couple, but specifically the incense cab driver, subway worker guy that we mentioned. And then diner guy are just like three so New York-y New York characters. Both diner guys.

Dick Miller and Victor Argo, also a legendary New York actor. Those are the two guys pouring coffee in that spot. I love vigilante mobs just in general in movies. Sure. People just holding candles at 4.30 in the morning. I have movies that use real phone numbers. I always enjoy it. Oh, good one.

I'm at 243. I'm like, oh, they used a real one. Yeah, when you don't hear a 5-5-5. Yeah, okay. I like that. Would you ever call one of the numbers you heard in a movie? No, but I know people do that.

Okay. I like crazy. Wait, do you want to give out your phone number right now? No. Okay. I like crazy New York City cab ride scenes because we've all been in those cabs when they're just like weaving through traffic

and you're just like, Oh my God, am I going to die? So there's a special feature on the Bluroy of this movie that's a conversation between Scorsese and Fran Liboitz. They're old friends. And Fran Libowitz also been living in New York for 100 years. And she says about that moment when Griffin Dunn's character gets in the car

and the cab just takes off, she said, you nailed it because at that time, there was a change in New York. In the 70s, all the cab drivers were like Jewish and Italian-American guys, and they all were just like family men who were like trying to make a living. And then something changed

where the only people who drove cabs were maniacs. Right. And she's like, these maniacs had lead foots and they just fucking drove so fast. He's trying to get to the next stop. Yes. So he had his finger on the pulse of something. I'll probably get blamed for that. It's really funny when he sees a woman shoot the guy in the apartment.

I love that part. It's so weird. And he's not like horrified. He's like, I'll probably get blamed for that. Well, we haven't. That's what the movie's just got nuts. But I haven't said like there's Hitchcock and Fritz Lang, noir movies are a huge influence on this movie.

And that's like such a perfect rear window moment where like you see something you weren't supposed to see. And then we never think about it again. Right. Like it never comes up again. Someone got shot in this neighborhood. Yeah. No sirens. No cop cars. It's like the Russian and the Sopranos.

The Russian in the Woods. Surrender Dorothy is hilarious. Just Cheech and Chong being in this movie is at what stage the best. Smart move. Chong said it was like we were in our own Cheech and Chong movie within a Scorsese movie, which is kind of true. Mm-hmm. And that's all I have for what's age the best.

I did forget to mention, well, I'll get to another category. Well, the next award is the Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm. I just ruined it. I think rear window is my favorite one. I mean, there's a lot of them, and a lot of them are about, like, modern art. There's plenty of Louis Bunwell in the movie with the surrealism that you're finding, and the Edward Munch painting and the plaster of Paris sculpture. but I like seeing that that gal get shot.

That guy, shoot that girl, shoot that guy. Big Cohoon Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink. The uneaten diner cheeseburger, I was like when the... That's what I have to. It brings it over. It just feels like a character for two minutes. Can we just talk very quickly about the Mr. Softie truck? Yeah.

Did you grow up with Mr. Softie? Didn't really have them. This is... Mr. Softie is a fucking religion on Long Island, or at least it was when I was a kid. And there were two ice cream trucks. There was your work. day ice cream truck.

We had all the regular stuff. That had all the blow pops and all the different things. Everything in the wrapping, you know. And then the Mr. Softie truck was just dispensed by the machine. Yeah. Soft serve ice cream. And sounds great. You get it with sprinkles.

You get it with the candy shell, you know, the cherry shell. And when it came, it was like Christmas morning. Mr. Softie was elite. So Apex Mountain for Mr. Softie? It would probably be me at like nine years old after a baseball game. Big Cooner Burger Award could technically, be Mr. Softie, but we don't actually see a Mr. Softie in this, so I don't think it's eligible.

Great Shock Order Award. I don't even know where to go on this. I'll just let you pick. So there's the keys, which is an incredibly difficult shot to pull off. Linda Fiorentino goes up to the roof after he gets the address of where Marcy is, and she throws the keys down off the roof. And the keys are coming right at the camera.

For no reason. You think it's leading to something, and it really doesn't. It's just a move. It's just like a move. I think, well, I mean, if you wanted to speak metaphorically, you could be like sharp objects are racing towards this guy. You know what I mean? This is danger at the very beginning

of the movie setting us up for like almost don't go in there. But that shot apparently was really hard to do, really dangerous for Griffin Dunn to keep trying to do. But it's very, very memorable. I do think that shot of him flying in the cab where he's sitting in the back and it's bouncing and you're hearing the flamenco music and you're like, what is going on?

This movie has this weird pace and energy that I've never seen before. And then I mentioned my favorite by far is the zoom in on Marcy when she wings to the camera. That's my favorite shot. I like when he's, it's like in the last 20 minutes, he's outdoors and he's kind of looking up. And it's like a big crane shot that comes down on it.

It's just good. That's a great one. Kid Cuddy should happenness award for Best Nino Drop. We do have the monkeys in this movie and we do have Joni Mitchell. But I think the winner is, is that all there is by Peggy Lee. A favorite song of my mom's. A great song. I think she said it's one of the great, it's one of the great divorce songs.

I believe that it was featured in a very memorable. episode of Mad Men at the end credits in a similar like post-Don and, uh, no, Mad Men. Was it a soprano? Maybe it was sopranos. Maybe it was a soprano. I don't, I thought I could have sworn there was a Betty and Don sequence. Probably was. Where, anyway, there's a couple of others.

I like, one, I think, I like the last train of Clarksville monkeys drop because Terry Gar was in head, the monkeys movie. Also, pretty good song. Great song. I was kind of listening to it going, huh, might throw this on a summer mix. Yeah, the monkeys are good, man. Pay to Come by Bad Brains in the club. And then I think Mozart's symphony number 45 at the beginning of the movie is pretty good.

Wolfie? Yeah, Wolfie. Pay to come, but it's spelled C-U-M just for the record. Thanks for clarifying that. Yeah, I notice that in the soundtrack. When I'm not going to talk about that anymore. You know you're really serious when you're flipping the C-U-M spell. Punk rock icons.

When are we doing Amadeus? Speaking of Wolfie. That would be Oscar Winners Month. Is that something you're going to? going to do? Yeah, I think so. Interesting. We're going to run out of movies.

Oliver. It's like five movies left. What other Oscar winners do you want to do? There's five movies left? What are you talking about? Annie Hall. Interesting. Who's going to be on that one?

Probably be a lottery. You just get chosen to be in it. Cool. I love Annie Hall. There's some good, uh, some good Oscar winners left. The Chess Rockwell and Brocklanders award for best character name. It's clearly horsed. I will give.

Was hoarse his first name or is like? last name. I think it was kind of like Prince. Bob Horst. Frankie Horst. Horst Lewis. Which way would you go? Horse Johnson?

I think it's just horsed. It's like... Also the best stealth dog van. If you love this movie and you name your dog Horst. It's a good insight joke. And then somebody else gets it. They're like, after hours. That'd be a good one.

I do think second place is Kiki Bridges. Kiki Bridges. Kiki Bridges Goulden. Downtown sculptor, that's a good Marcy is also just a good character name. It's a game, a name we've lost from the culture.

Nobody names their kid Marcy anymore. You have a Sean Fantasy Flex category. Okay, let me see which is the right one to do. You can do two if you want. So, to me,

scene stealing location, the Dennythews, Benihana Award, is Terminal Bar. The bar that they go to, which was still open. I think it's finally gone now. The bar John Hurd works on?

The John Hart is the bartender in, which was a bar you could go to down to. It's a great bar. It is gone, right? I was reading about it last night. I like how it's set up. It's like very, that hole, it's on the one side. Yes, you walk in, the bars on the right, but it's got the curve on the bar. And you've got tables. Yeah, I

really love a bar like that where it feels like you can get a cup of coffee and get a beer at the same time. That's kind of like my perfect bar experience. I don't want to be in a loud bar that is just like running vertically and everybody's standing and trying to budge in to get a drink. I want an open space, want some tables, and I want to feel like

it's never full. It looks like the Rocky One bar that they're all watching the fight in. Yes. The same kind of setup though, the TV at the top. Yeah. That would be my scene ceiling location.

That's a good one. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film, just walk home. It's 90 blocks. This was my picking. I do it in an hour. My picking knit is like,

just leave. Just go. How about this? There's more than one subway stop. It's beyond a picking knit. It's like, oh, I couldn't get in that subway.

stop. Just walk two blocks and go to the next subway stop, but maybe that guy will let you leave for 50 cents. Great point. I hadn't thought of that. There's subway stops every two blocks. I also think walking, even if it was considered dangerous, you're being chased by an angry mob. Like, there's nothing more dangerous than people who want to put you in prison. I guess it rains at some point. So maybe that's why you're not doing it, but it's walking in the rain in New York City is a way of life. Is that an hour of 15? Sure. Yeah. And you can't get mug because this is that. any money. He doesn't have anything. Nothing to take. Just his, well, I mean, he doesn't have any dignity either because Marcy killed herself. Just go, go two blocks to the next subway. Just keep trying subway stops until somebody

let you on. Or you just hop over. I'm with you. Woods age the worst. Griffin Dunn's Unibrow is just bizarre in this movie. I don't really understand it. I thought about putting that in the most 1985 thing about it. I just don't get it. Does he even have that in, um, uh, is it intentional? London? I don't know. It's a weird thing. Because he doesn't have it in future movies. Somebody is obviously like Griffin, you got to take care of this. That has aged pretty bad. I have some other, I have a couple of other what's age the worst. I had Soho as well. Like that it's what's age the worst. It's age the worst than that. I think Soho is more fun when it was like this. Well, I miss weird soho. You've clearly been never been knifed in

that way. That's in play, I think at that time. Yeah. Okay. I mean, the dumb asses who canceled Last Temptation of Christ, like that's not ideal. Yeah. You don't want to tell Martin Scorsese, he can't make a cool movie. And actually, lot of his career in this century is him like convincing people to give him a ton of money for movies. But here's the most important what's age of the worst for me. The name of this character is Paul Hackett. When I was a kid, Paul Hackett was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets. And he was one of the worst offensive coordinators in the NFL. And he was kind of my introduction to the Jets will never have a good offense. Yeah. Which has been a characteristic of my

life. Cut to 2023. Aaron Rogers. He's traded to the New York Jets. And who does he bring with him? Paul Hackett's son, Nathaniel Hackett. Yeah. And I get that feeling all over again. And Nate Hackett, man, he just sucked at calling plays. And I can't get...

So Paul Hackett, the character... You just hear the name. It's just kind of ruined. It's like it's fucked up for me. I can't... I don't want to hear that name out loud. It's a really good one. The...

Ruffelahanna Rubidick Partridge Overacting Award. I'm going to go Griffin Dunn here because he dials... it up a couple times. He does. He'd be my choice. It's a manic movie. Yeah.

There's a couple times when he just gets mad at Marcy and I'm like, where'd that, why'd that come from? We're sure it's not Will Patton. That's Horst? He's like the eyeliner and the tenor of his, the timbre of his voice and he's like, what was Horst really going to do? That's almost the underacting. What are you going to do, Horst?

You're going to kill this guy. What are you going to be Joey Horst? Horst. Horst Lewis. Frederick Horst. The Sierra thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford How Does Take a Word? I have one.

I have three. You have three? Yeah. We'll do two and I'll do one. This is the top three Scorsese movie of all time. Okay. It's Goodfellas king of comedy in this movie. And that leads directly to my second hot take,

which is that his 80s are better than his 90s and maybe even better than his 70s. Wow. This is, this is a hot. That's scorching high. This is a hot take category. You think his 80s or better than his 90s? Would you like me to read his 80s? Yeah.

Raging Bull, the King of Comedy, after hours, The Color of Money, The Last Temptation of Christ, plus life lessons. Five features, one short. His 90s,

Goodfellas, Cape Fear, Age of Innocence, Casino, Kundun, bringing out the dead. Now, Goodfellas is my favorite movie. Yeah, but that's pretty soft

after the top two. 70s. Boxcar, Bertham, Mean Streets, Alice doesn't live here anymore, taxi driver, New York, New York? 2000s? 2000 is Gangs of New York, the Aviator

the departed. 2010s, there are some people who could make the case that the 2010s are his best, you wouldn't, but I might. Shutter Island, Hugo, Wolf of Wall Street, silence the Irishman. No. Okay.

I think you're right. Thank you. I think it is the 80s. Thank you. What's yours? I don't know if this is a war crime, but it's a crime against humanity. and a crime against pop culture and entertainment and fun.

I don't know how Linda Furentino was never on The Sopranos. Wow. I just can't believe David Chase fucked that up. And I have a great deal of respect for him. How did she not have a three to four episode arc with Tony Soprano? I think it would have been maybe it was too electric and too powerful and David Chase was worried that it could lead to some sort of world war. It just feels like there can only.

be one situation with Annabella Siora. Like Annabella Skiora as Gloria. That's in the Fiorantino zone. Could she have been a soprano cousin that comes back? Yeah. And used to tease Tony as a kid. I like her as like maybe like a milfier

or gets above with Christopher. Woman who comes in with Christopher and kind of maybe like messes with Christopher. How is she not in the Sopranos universe? I just don't understand it. Is Linda Fiorantino alive? Yeah, she's alive. When was the last time she was in a movie?

She's live. Well, she was in men in black and dogma. Yep. In the late 90s. And Sopranos starts in 99. And there's six years there where she could have been in any, she could have been the next door neighbor. She could have been Gisimano, whatever her name was. Yeah. There's, it just could have been married to Artie Bucco. Like, I could have gone.

I forget that woman's the name, but she's, she's so hot. Just saying, I don't know how there wasn't a place for her somewhere. She could have done a one episode arc where she's just fucking with Tony. and then Tony kills her. I don't know. I always think about this, but like, okay, let's just game this out.

Linda Fiorentino, after Dogman in 99, her last major starring role. She's in the following movies, ordinary, decent criminal, what planet are you from and where the money is? Those are all studio movies.

2002, she makes Liberty stand still. Yeah. And then nothing for seven years. Yeah. She's in a movie called Once More With Feeling in 2009 and then never works again. Yeah.

I think maybe there was some, maybe there is some off-to-set baggage, who knows? I get it, but here's an important question. How does this person make money? How is this person alive? I always think about this when you're like, you've been an actor since you're 19. Right.

You work, you stop working. She invested? Maybe she bought some like Apple stock. It doesn't seem like she's married. Just have questions? Some questions, yeah. Should we get her on her podcast? Sure.

Does she host a podcast? I don't know about that. I just felt like she could have had one to three episodes on The Sopranos. I think it's a great take. What are you doing Jade? Never. That movie's awful. I saw that in the theater with Nicaida, my buddy.

Okay. You made it sound like that like he was a famous person. Well, he's one of my friends that you have to say both of his names. Got it. Okay, okay. We saw Color of Night and Jade in the theater. Did you guys hold hands? No.

Okay. Go see weird movies together. Speaking of Weird, the Mallory Rubin Award for, did this movie need a better sex scene? I think that's kind of the point. I'm going to say no. Yeah. But you also could have talked to me into a yes.

Just because of how you feel about Marcy? No, not with Marcy. I think the punk club, punk club could have gotten weird. Maybe not with horse, but something could have been going on in the sculpture place. The bouncer? Bouncer. Okay. One more break and then we'll do casting wettips.

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Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. All right, casting one-ifs. This was originally supposed to be directed by Tim Burton. And then Scorsese wanted to be involved. And he just stepped aside because he said, I respectfully withdraw.

I will never stand in the way of Martin Scorsese wants to make a movie. And that's it. So this is a double-cast. What Ifs to me because Tim Burton doesn't make this movie and in this same year he goes on to make Pee Wee's Big Adventure which is a huge movie for me personally

and would be an amazing I'll step on the feature category, double feature with this movie about a man child thrust into a world he doesn't understand seeking something he can't get and eventually finding salvation by going back home. I don't know if that one's going to be in the rewatchables anytime. Peewee's Big Adventure?

You might be hosting that. that one without me. Wow. You don't like Pete. You were too old. No, I was never a Peewey Herman guy. Some people are. I'm not against it.

I don't judge. I thought he was great. I mean, I was a kid when those movies came out. So having the Saturday morning show, the movie show was pretty big. But Tim Burton, Tim Burton was an all-time genius to me and then just stopped being a genius completely in 2000. Like everything he did between 1985 and 2000, I loved.

And then kind of never again? I think his hair just got really heavy and it started impinging on his brain. That's probably what it was. That was my theory. Okay. There's no real more casting what ifs except for they really had trouble cast in the Linda Furentino part.

Okay. And Griffin Dunn said, Linda intimidated the shit out of Marty and me. She came in like she didn't give a damn whether or not she got the part. And it made her seem like Veronica Lake. Marty and I looked at each other and said, that's Kiki. Because Griffin Dunn was one of the producers of this movie.

Do you want to talk about that really quickly? Yeah. him and Amy Robinson owned a company. Yeah, so on Fiorntino, in that conversation with Friendly, which I mentioned, the only person he uses the adjective, the great in front of is Linda Fiorentino.

And Scorsese very clearly is like, the great Linda Fiorentino. And then he's just like, yeah, Rosanna Arquette, Griffin Dunn, these other people. Couldn't find a place in Goodfellas for her. It's a good point.

It's a good point. Now that, that couldn't have found a place in Casino for her. Yeah, she could have been a Gumar. Yeah. So Griffin done and Amy Robinson. Amy Robinson was the female lead of Mean Streets in the 70s

and had worked with Scorsese over the years. And Griffin Dunn and Amy Robinson formed this production company, which I think is called Triple Play. And they start producing movies. They produced actually a lot of really good movies over the years. They make a Joan Mickland Silver movie in 1982 called Chili Scenes of Winter, very good movie. Then in 1983, they make a movie with John Sales called Baby It's You.

Yeah. Starring Roseanne Arquette. And Vincent Spano. Vincent Spano and shot... Never happened for him. and shot by Michael Ballhouse. Yeah. And without that movie,

we don't have after hours either because they bring Michael Ballhouse to Scorsese. They, I think Roseanne Arquette in their relationship, they all go together. And so they also produced one year later running on empty, the Sydney Lumet movie with Judd Hirsch

about the family of 1968 rebels on the run. I don't mind that movie. Good movie. Yeah. Pretty good movie. So they are like really good producers in addition to Griffin being kind of a movie star for a minute there.

Well, and he also had, he was the son of Dominic Dunn. He was. His sister, famously, tragically murdered. Yeah, and then his sister was murdered. And that led to Dominic Dunn throwing himself in a true crime and led to the peak of him in the 90s, which I think was my number one, a magazine is coming out. I'm most excited to read this person moment. Like 94, 95, him writing about OJ was like the apex mountain for me for, I can't wait until this. In Vanity Fair at that time.

Yeah, yeah. He was like all that mattered. He wrote amazing stories. He was a fascinating character. He really was. And he has good books, too. I liked all of his books. He's a really, really great writer.

And his, his aunt uncle were John Gregory Dunn and Joan Diddy. Yeah, and John Deere. And he has, Griffin has kind of become like, I don't know if he's an estate manager, but he's somebody who, like, helps shepherd a lot of the legacy of Didian and Dunn. And pops in and pops in some movies from time to time. Yeah, he still acts for sure. But while we're talking. talking about movies, I just want to recommend if people haven't read a book called the

studio that John Gregory Dunn wrote, that is about how a movie studio operates. It's one of the greatest, it's not a novel, it's a nonfiction book. It's one of the greatest books about Hollywood ever written. It's like a little underrated. And since we're in the Dunn universe, give a shout. Best that guy word, is Griffin Dunn of that guy? I don't think so. He's Griffick. I think wherewolf plus this, he makes him Griffin, I agree. You put his name on top of the poster. You're kind of, you're good to go. is Horst that guy Will? I don't think so.

No, because he's a member The Titans are No Way Out. Yes. Oh, no way out. Yeah. What was Hackman's name? And he was like, huh?

I don't remember at the end when he's about to kill himself. Yeah, yeah. Horse is kind of a warm up for the crazy assistant to the Secretary of Defense in No Way Out. Does he's Secretary of Defense in that movie?

He is, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's also a classic, like you didn't have any hair and now you have a full head of hair actor. I always enjoy those. Yeah.

He's a very reliable. He's an Armageddon or one of those? Yeah, he's in Armageddon. Yeah. I mean, he's like constantly on TV. Is he in the Taylor Sheridan universe now? Will Patton? He's, I always like seeing him.

Yeah, he's a great actor. Really good action. I think he market corrected Terry Kinney a little bit. They were head to head there for a while. When's the Oz rewatch pod? Whenever you want. Emerald City. Van is watching him right now.

Back to Emerald City. My of that guys were Dick Miller, Victor Argo. and Larry Block, who is the taxi driver. I mean, those are literally that guys. Yeah, old school that guys. Deanne Waiters Award, what a category. Terry Gar, Catherine O'Hara, Linda Fiorentino,

Will Patton, Vernon Bloom, and Cheech and Chong. It's about as good of a Deion Waders as it's going to get. I also had John Hurd. And John Hurd. Speaking of the Sopranos, legendary Sopranos,

player. I have a Furentino winning. Okay, I'll roll with that. But she's just out of control. I don't know what she's doing in this movie, but it's captivating. Yeah. Another, like, how do you make money person? I guess she's selling those plaster of Paris bagels.

Yeah. You got one of those? I don't. Recast the couch director of City. So, let's have the Griffin done conversation right here. Okay. So the best we could do in 1985 as elite actor. He produced the movie. I get it. Can I offer you Tom Hanks?

You can. Can I offer you as Tom Hanks as the answer of Cruz or Hanks? You can. Hanks wins. I accept. Can I offer you 19. 85, right out of splash, about to make a bunch of weird movies before his 1990 and does league of their own in his career, he becomes Tom Hanks.

I think this would have been a really good Tom Hanks movie. It's perfect. Because Tom Hanks isn't like really a horny guy necessarily. So watching him try to awkwardly get laid. I think he could have been. I think there's comic timing with him that would have been better. I just think it's a better movie. I don't think Tom Hanks is very kooky.

Did you see Punchline? That's a good point. That's one of the very few times where it feels like inside of Tom Hanks is chaos. Can I offer you Michael Keaton? Now that is amazing. That would be amazing. Is he too horny or like two? No.

That would have been great. Okay. I think that's better. Okay. Michael Kean, so coming off night shift, he's done gung hon, Mr. Mom. He's about to do Johnny Dangerously maybe. No, Johnny Dangerously is right before because Griffin done is in Johnny Dangerously. they play brothers in Johnny Dangerously.

It's better with Michael Keaton. It's better with either of them. But yeah, Keaton's better. I love Griffin Dunn in this movie. There's not a lot about this movie I would change. Like I said, it's a huge favorite of mine. But Michael Keaton does have that like, I just blew a line energy.

Yeah. And he would be really good. You know what? It could have been. I'm not saying I would have liked this, but would have made a little bit of sense as Steve Gutenberg. Oh, wow.

You know, like he was like the right kind of actor. How about Andrew McCarthy? A little young. Maybe four years later. I actually had some, if they made this movie in different years, who the perfect person would have been. What about Judge Reinhold? Judge Reinhold.

Well, so 1990, John Cusack. Yeah. He's clearly in it. A few years later, yeah. 1996, 97 range, Josh Hamilton. Sure, 100%. Yeah. Any of the Noel Boundback players would have been good.

0405 range. I think we get Phil Hoffman. Okay. I mean, I have Phil Hoffman as an answer to a category here. I would have had him as Tom Shore, the bartender in this movie. 2010-11 range, Jesse Eisenberg. You made all these notes? Yeah. Wow.

Should we remake After Hours with Eisenberg? Hater is somewhere in here. I think this is a great Bill Hater movie. I don't know exactly what point of his career. He's got to be a little younger. Bill must love this movie. I'm sure. But couldn't you see Hater in this movie?

Yeah, but he got started. a little bit later, I feel like, as a star. Like 2013? 14 range. Sure. And then I couldn't come up with now. I was thinking in Shalama, but he's probably too handsome. Too much of a hard time. But it's a kind of movie that would be

interesting if he made it. You know who it should be? Who? Cooper Hoffman. Cooper Hoffman. Love that guy. That's a good one. Yeah. He might still be too young. I think he's like 22. That's a good one, though. How old was Griffin done when he made this? Probably in his like 30. Like late 20s, early 30s.

Okay. Half a Saturday research. One of Scorsese's contributions involved the dialogue between Paul and the Dorman at Club Berlin, which was inspired by Franz Kafka's Before the Law. And Scorsese said the short story reflected his frustration toward the production

of the Last Temptation of Christ, Marty. Put yourself in the movie. That's why when you see Pauline Kiel saying, like, this is like impersonal or whatever, it's like it's all him. Yeah. Roseanne Arquette said A lot of the people involved in after hours

were regulars at the New York Bar and Restaurant Cafe Central They would gather their drink art Eat and be merry A lot of artists Griffin Dunn and Amy were there all the time De Niro and Christopher Walkenrow is in Bruce Willis was the bartender Whoa He has bartender energy

Griffin Dunn said we partied hard at Cafe Central incredible place. The biggest movie stars in the world hung out there and not one paparazzi knew about it. Okay.

Cafe Central. This is the John Hurd. This is all from the oral history that I think Aramel did so you can read it. Griffin Dunn and Amy wanted... Are you an airmail subscriber? No.

Okay. They wanted to cast John Hurd. Marty said, I think he's incredibly talented but I'm a little worried he's got a reckless reputation, which he did. John was quite a carouser.

Then they convinced him to do it. John Hurd Getting it done in the 80s He's one of those guys who like Is it really like that handsome? Yeah I think of him in big Trying to play handball With Josh Baskin.

He's in chilly scenes of winter The other Griffin Dunn Amy Robinson movie Obviously he's He's in home alone And I'm always happy to see him Me too But he just like looks like one of my dad's friends

He did get Sopranos run And then I think he died He did He was a really, really good actor. They had to cheat with Soho because it was already getting gentrified when they were making the film. So they had to do some Chinatown, Little Italy, and Tribeca to patch together. I was wondering about that if it was already too late to make it seem like it was this dangerous place. My last two things are just from research because I was fascinated on all the people that are in this movie.

Griffin done best friends since childhood with Carrie Fisher. And then in the documentary Bright Lights, the two of them reminisced about when he took her virginity because she considered it a burden. And as an act of friendship in London in the early 70s, they decided to have sex. So she wouldn't be a virgin anymore. That's on the internet.

That's... I didn't expect to have a reaction. That must have been very exciting for him. Linda Fiorentino had a relationship with Anthony Pelicano. in the period leading to his 2008 trial and conviction. Wait, what happened? You didn't know about the McTiernan thing? Did this come up in D.HWB?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that was like, what the hell, man? Pelcano is being investigated. Linda Fiorentino started dating former FBI agent Mark Rossini. Law enforcement agents said, this was her attempt to assist Palacano with information. Oh, my God.

Furentino said, told Rossini, As they were getting involved, she was researching a screenplay based on Pelecana's case. He then gave her searches of government computers for information to Frirentino, who then gave the files to Pelacana's lawyer in a failed effort to help him avoid going to jail for 15 years. And then Racini had to plead guilty as well. So she was in two relationships with two guys who went to jail. That might be part of the reason. She's not acting a lot.

I did not know this. just guessing. That is shocking. Yeah. Apex Mountain. Wait, she dated an FBI agent to get things from him to help her boyfriend who was under investigation by the FBI.

He was able then to get. That's a movie. That's your girl, Linda. I feel like she could have gone three episodes with Tony Soprano. I'll bet. They could have figured it out. I think so too.

Apex Mountain. Griffin, Dunn. I'm going to say yes. Yes, without question. Roseanne Arcade, 100% 1985, yes. Without question. Hard cap, all caps, yes.

Linda Fierantino, Last Seduction, 1994, which she should have got nominated for an Oscar, but they had released on HBO first. She's incredible in the last deduction, but probably Men in Black. I mean, Men in Black was a massive success

bigger than any other movie she'd ever been a part of. And she was the star. Can I make the case for Last Reduction? Yes. Do you know this whole thing about how she should have won the Oscar that year? I feel like we've talked about it before, dude.

They couldn't get the movie funded to be in theaters, so they sold it to HBO. Right. It ran on HBO for a couple weeks. And then the movie gained steam, and they did this whole, they started to show it. And they basically did the movie Red Carpet thing with it. And she started winning all of these awards.

But it was ruled in eligible. Critics choice, whatever, but they were like, it can. It was on TV first year not eligible. And that was the year, Jessica Lang won for Blue Sky, which had been made four years earlier. and then like that was Jody Foster Nell. Mm-hmm.

But it's just like a, it's like a particularly awful best actress category. Miranda Richardson and Tom and Viv, Winona Ryder and Little Women. And show some respect to Susan Sarandon and the client, my beloved Reggie Love. That's weird.

That's interesting. I think she wins. So if she wins in 1994, she's a massive star. This is just an extraordinary amount of time spent on Linda Fuhr. in the spot. Thank you. I did a lot of research. Henry Miller Apex Mountain? Probably not. I would say

no. Maybe the publication of Tropic of Cancer. Yeah. John Hurd? I think Home Alone. I think he was Cutter's Way was he was leading with somebody. Oh, thank you for bringing that up. That movie is amazing. He plays a Vietnam vet with an eye patch

in a wheelchair and he is crazy in that movie. Thank you for bringing that up. Cheech and Chong? Probably not. It's probably somewhere late 70s. Up and smoke for sure. Cheech and Chong, hard to explain all these years later. You know? Because I think they just on YouTube, though.

Yeah. Meaning like how they hit? No, just like, it's just very specific to an era that now they would just be guys. They'd be huge influencers. They'd probably have a billion dollar empire. It'd be like, Cheech and Chong just did a one million, one billion dollar deal with Amazon. Yeah, they were kind of the Mr. Beast of their time. Yeah.

Late night New York City movies. I have a whole list. This is the best one. So, I think the Warriors is superior because it covers more ground. It captures more of the city. Yeah, that's fair.

The Warriors would be number one. In Brooklyn, and Coney Island, you're all over the place. This is very close behind, but in addition to that, I think taxi drivers, certainly in the conversation,

25th hour, Saturday night fever? Is 25th hour a late night New York City? Yeah, the club. When they're in the club for like 40 minutes. Yeah, you're right. Cruising.

And they're in the diner. When Barry Pepper and Alp and go out to the diner. Ghostbusters? Hmm. Right? I mean, the whole third act is at night. American Psycho? Cruising?

Well, cruising for sure. For sure. American Psycho is a good one. I mean, good time. And uncut gems? Yeah. Uncut gems, I mean, could a movie owe more of a debt to after hours than uncut gems? I was trying to think of the movies that probably were the most influenced by it,

and it's a long list. one of the ones I think is go. Oh, definitely. They were just like, let's make late 90s go and just put a bunch of weird actors with weird cameos. And it's basically they should have paid royalties to swear Sizzy.

Bright Lights Big City is a big one from this era too. Yeah. Which I feel like people don't talk about that anymore. And then just like every Lumet film. Yeah, except for Dog Day afternoon because it only takes place during the day. Good list.

Thank you. Apex Mountain for plaster? Sure. The answer is yes. Terry Gard, it's no, because I think it's probably Tutsi era, but we're still... She was Oscar nominated for Tutsi.

Still on the mountain. Yep. And then... What about mom and dad saved the world with John Lovitz and Terry Gar? I think that she was off the mountain at that point. Soho. No.

What is Apex Mountain for Soho? It's somewhere in the last 15 years. Bosquiat painting masterpieces five years earlier? That's pretty good. Okay. Scorsese or Spielberg? Yes. I love when we have that organically. Here's the thing. Steve doesn't have the juice to get into this energy.

He could never get to this place. He wouldn't know how to direct lend to Furentino. He definitely did not. He had no idea. This is our eighth Scorsese rewatchable. It's going to ask you that. How many is Steve had? Spilberg has had how many? I'm going to say seven.

Hold on. I can find that. Jaws, closing counters. E.T. E. minority report. Oh, Spielberg's had nine. Nine. So Michael Mann, Tony Scott, Spielberg all at nine.

Scorsese at eight. Fincher at seven. That's our top. That's our top five. Are you done with Fincher? No. God, though. Would you ever do Girl with the Dragon Tattoo?

I don't like that movie. Okay. Do you like it? It's been one of the biggest growers in my life in the last 10 years. Do I need to watch it? Yeah, I think it's like incredible. and I didn't realize it at the time. I think I might not like it for the wrong reasons

because I don't like, I really liked Rooney Mera and I think that the movie just made sent her career in a weird direction and I want to redo it. I think she's an unusual person. Maybe. It's good to see Kate and friendship, though.

Great to see her working in a good movie. As you know, she matters to me. Yeah. Do you like friendship? What'd you make of that? I don't think we've ever talked to him, Robinson. I really liked it. My daughter absolutely loved it.

Oh, great. Yeah. And my wife was uncomfortable and complaining about it most of the time, but still liked it. Not surprising. It's good. It is really funny. It's really good. I thought people got a little carried away with how good it was, but I thought it was really good.

I didn't think it was the funniest movie the last 15 years, but I was happy to have a comedy with Tim Robinson in movie theaters, yeah. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? So you said the bartender. Yeah, Tom. You could talk me into the lead at certain points in his career. career. Okay. Pick a Nets.

Not sure why he flips on Marcy and makes her cry. Never understood that. He just gets mad and I just don't get it. It's a weird. So I think it's because he realizes that he doesn't, he's afraid of sleeping with a burn victim and he's trying to get out of there. Oh, so it's a, yeah. Couldn't he walk to another subway station?

And then why did, why did Marcy actually kill herself was a weird one? It's the weirdest part of this movie. I wrote down what was wrong with Marcy. The thing I do think is clever is that she overdoses on Secondol, which is what Judy Garland overdosed on. And she, of course, was the star of the Wizard of Oz. And so there's meant to be some symmetry there. You have any of their pickinets?

We cover a lot of right. The biggest one was just, why don't you just walk home? Sequel prequel prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. There's a prestige TV possibility where each other, episode is almost like 24. It's after hours, but it's 24, and it's 10 hours and one episode for each hour. It's not against it.

Yeah. It's ambitious. Okay, but would it be Kiefer Sutherland? Would you be his son? Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny, Trayout, Dorisberg, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley, May, Chris Collins, where, Daniel, Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley, and the firm. honestly, Sam Jackson being in this movie would have been great.

Interesting. I think this movie is a Sam Jackson short. Well, who would he be? Well, not Horst, probably. I think he's in the bar and he's just flipping out on somebody. Okay. But just two minutes of Sam, 80s, crazy Sam Jackson. They speak English and what?

Right. Just him going. Him just being Sam Jackson. Just bringing him crazy energy. Maybe he's in the vigilante mob. I'd love to have Jules just in this movie. Jules Winfield. be great. Just one Oscar who gets it. I'm going with the editing and our girl Thelma Schoonmaker.

Good. Mocker Maker maker? Maker, yeah. Thelma schoonmaker. You know, we haven't mentioned that Michael. Michael Powell is a pretty important person in this movie, legendary British filmmaker who had been kind of cast out of filmmaking in the 70s and 80s, but became a huge mentor to Scorsese at this time and married Thelma Schoonmaker right before this movie, I think, or maybe right after. And he, was one of the people who helped him figure out the ending, helped him determine the tone. And if you haven't seen any Michael Powell movies, Black Narcissus, Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, Matter of Life and Death, like some of the greatest British films ever made. But he similarly experienced this kind of like limbo, this exile that Scorsese felt.

So they like had a real kinship together. And also clearly Thelma and Powell, like, they helped Scorsese a lot. Probably an answerable question. you have any because I have two. I think I was just trying to understand what this guy's job is. Like I know he's a word processor, but what does that mean?

I don't think we're supposed to know. Okay. I think it's like ambiguous, weird office job. So an unanswerable question. Yeah. I have two. The timeline of this movie. What time does he land back in front of his office?

What time is it? Here's what we know. He leaves his house at 11.30. He arrives at Marcy's around 12, 15. At 1.35 in the morning, Marcy says she needs to take a shower. Then we see a clock when he's leaving Terry Gar's place at 4.10. When he goes to the diner, you can see the clock. Okay.

It's 4.10. How many hours after that happened? Like three? And it's as they're driving the van, the sun's coming up. But we don't know what time of year it is. So it's probably 630 range. So he landed his office at 7? The number one giveaway is that someone is vacuuming in the office when he gets there.

So someone cleaning. So what does that shift to clean? First of all, who cleans the office in the morning? Shouldn't it be at night when you clean the office? They're finishing it. Because you can see when Cheech and Chong are driving, you can see the sun's coming up. Right. Right.

So it's probably like 630 range. I didn't mention him exiting those gates is one of my great shot. Gordo's too. So I'm going to say he gets there. This is seven hours round trip. Okay. Seven hours of it. He's there at 6.30.

He shows up at Marcy's at 1215. Maybe he's back in the office at 7.15, not having slept. I think you answered the unanswerable question. I got another one. It's not unanswerable though. Did he finish reading Tropic of Cancer? In jail. Because that was my other unanswerable question.

Does he just get arrested four hours later? They could find him. guy came. His name was Paul Hackett. And he left and he ran away from the thing and now Marcy's dead and it was his fault. They definitely could find him. And he might have shot somebody too. He didn't do anything wrong. I think

I think he's at least on trial. Dominic Dunn's covering it. What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? The Mr. Softie truck would be pretty cool. I don't know where you put it. Yeah. I don't really have that kind of space. The $20. Yeah. I think the, I think the plaster Paris bagel is probably my

co-to. That's a good one. Coach Finstock Award, Best Life Lesson. Nothing good happens after 2 a.m. Perfect. Don't chase the night. Best double feature choice. So you have, what did you have?

Well, you had pee-wee. I have a bunch. Goodfellas is in the mix. Pewee. Into the night, the John Land's movie. So that was my choice. Okay. I'll let you talk about that.

Which is weirdly, like, they think it's a rip-off of, but they're making them at the same time. Yeah, I don't think it's a rip-off. I don't even know which one came out first. It's basically L.A. L.A. for hours. It ends up in Malibu. Uncut gems. Yeah.

Another nighttime Scorsese movie bringing out the dead. It's a little underrated. Nick Cage as an ambulance driver. Game night. And the purge. The purge? That's a good one. I would go for Into the Night.

Okay. I think it would be funny to see New York, L.A. Same kind of version of energy. I like that. And then who won the movie, Scorsesey? Yeah, man. I mean, he was cooked. He was done for.

And then I think this movie just getting made and acknowledged was enough to kind of start to get him back on track. It got his juices going again, which is all that really matters. You like this movie more or less in Color of Money, which comes right after this. I like Color Money a little more. Yeah. I think that movie is amazing. They're both five stars.

Yeah. We already did that one. This one, I think, as I said, You don't want to recolor? It's less of a fun hang, but I almost admire it more than color money because I can't believe it worked. It's just a hinge movie for him.

He needs it to go forward, to go through the next door. That's it for New York City Month. What was your biggest disappointment that we didn't do in New York City? I'm waiting on Dog Day afternoon. I want to do it. I think we could do it.

I think we could do a great episode. I think we could do a mega episode about Dog Day. We should do it. it's a good one. Which one were you the most jealous of that you weren't on out of the other four? Probably not out for justice? No, didn't even... I don't know if I've even seen that film.

DH with a V is a big one for me. I love that movie. I know. We don't have four seats anymore. I know. We would have to do a different studio. If only we worked at a massive corporation that could fund the incredible studios. We're changing it right now.

We're trying to fix it. Probably die hard with a vengeance just because I was like a teenager when that movie came out and I just thought it was crack. I think there's like a really good case for it as better than the original diehard. Wow. Yeah, which I know is, I know you guys talked about it a little bit, but that's a great one.

And then, I don't know. What was the other one? You did another big one too. Working girl. Oh, well, I should not have been on that. I'm glad you, I think you, you did a great service. So out for justice one. Yep.

Out for Justice one. Which New York movie did we not do other than Dog Day afternoon that you think we should have done? Because King of Comedy was in the finals. because I was thinking about doing one for you. We never did that. No. That movie makes me uneasy and uncomfortable, and I don't know if it's rewatchable.

Because Sandra Bernhardt is so frightening in that movie that it's almost like not fun, but I know it is. It's just so crazy. It's so smart about where we are now and how people think about celebrity. Which is why we're going to have to do it at some point. I guess I don't really, it is a New York movie and it is very much a movie about a New York talk show host star.

But for whatever reason, don't associate that as much with New York as like, you know, your taxi drivers and your other Scorsese classics. I'm trying to think of best New York movies of all time. We've done a bunch of them. Like we did win Harry, Matt Sallie and cruising and the Warriors and we've done like a shitload of you. You know what would be a really good one? I don't know if you have a big relationship to this movie, but Francis Ha ha. It's on the list. Francis Ha is a movie that was about when I was living in New York. It is, that is the closest. Like I didn't live through after hours, but what she is doing in that movie plus

Bomback being such a special filmmaker for us it just felt like my life in a very specific way so that would be a really good one did Jack Sanders like after hours oh I think he loved it right Jack I think this movie is the reason this show exists not the specific movie but the idea for me Bill

this is a fun hang my girlfriend and I were dying laughing the entire time for me it's a five star masterpiece wow and this is a very specific thought, but I would say Scorsese, better than any other director, has the best image-making instincts. His intentionality comes through so clearly when he's whipping the camera, when he's panning, when he's telling you something's supposed to be scary, something's supposed to be serious.

I think it's better than any other director. I absolutely loved it. Wow. You've really just trained him. What do you mean? You've groomed him. He came to the right place. That's what happened.

No, he really did. He was born for it. I think his movies have the best pace. He's figured out pace better than the director that I can think of. He doesn't have a ton of movies that are 94 minutes, too. That's the other thing is this movie is tight. Yeah, it's, it flies. Craig's away.

I think Craig's on his honeymoon. Is somewhere. Didn't he get married like two years ago? Maybe he's just out of vacation. Would it be okay if I went on my honeymoon tomorrow? He's on a vacation. But when Craig comes back, we need his take on a couple of these. I think he would like this a lot

if he hasn't seen that. 94 minutes, he just immediately would have been in on that. All right. Well, we're coming back next week. We'll have some sort of something. What is July 4th? July 4th is on a Friday this year, right? Next Friday. Got to tape it next week.

All right, that's it. That's it for New York City Month. I don't know what's coming next week. It's July 4th. We'll see. See, hopefully Jalen Brown does get traded. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to Ronick as well. And we'll see you next week. You can't reason with the son.

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