The Rewatchables - ‘American Gigolo’ With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

It doesn’t matter how much, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin will always pay more after rewatching Paul Schrader’s sleek and sexy 1980’s neo-noir crime drama ‘American Gigolo’ starring Richard Gere, Lauren Hutton, and Bill Duke. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, this is Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, the world's greatest loopy and perverse and inaccurately named music nostalgia podcast. We're doing 90 songs now because there's too many songs. Pearl Jam, JZ, Jewel, YouTube, Cher, Hootie. These are just some of the names people yell at me on the internet because we're back. More great songs, more rad special guests, more loopy perversity. Join us once more on 60 Songs That Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation.

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Yes. You can find the Bill Simmons podcast. And coming up is the first episode of Sleazy. sleek, sexy early 80s month. I think that's what we called it. Rolls right off the tongue. Something, yeah, I got to work. Narnly November?

Nourly November's good. We are going to dive into four movies that all came out within basically like a 16 month span of each other in 1980 and 1981 that are sleazy, that are sexy. There's some noir elements to all of them, and they're just distinct in these various ways. The first one is called American Jigolo. We're going to have a lot of fun. I can tell. Just lie back and relax.

I know what you want. Close your eyes, baby. American Jigolo is next. You know who I am. You want to be here. You want to be with me. His name is Julian K. What's it what you expected?

His business is pleasure. Hello, Judy. You have a sex later. You're a good-looking woman. You're a likely. too. He is the American Gigolo. Hello, girls.

All right. Richard Gear, American Gigolo, iconic movie, did way better than I think people expected. Set the blueprint for a really strange era of movies that comes out. Some of them were made in the late, late 70s. We're coming out of this era, like

1977 on, where porn is becoming more mainstream. Music's starting to change. Punk's coming in. Just things are happening. an American jiggleome, Paul Schrader, especially, Sean's guy. My guy. Fits right into this. Paul Schrader does hardcore before that, which we decided was not a rewatchable,

even though it's kind of the father of these movies in a lot of ways, grimy, sex, just like underbelly. And this is now we head into this era where all these movies that we're about to do this month, there's an underbelly all omits of this. But, Sean, explain why Schrader's your guy and what he meant to this era. Well, he's one of the most celebrated screenwriters in movie history. He's the guy behind taxi driver, and he's had this incredible partnership over the years with the movie brats with Martin Scorsese and with Brian De Palma. As a filmmaker, he's definitely one of my favorites. He's really well known for the sort of lonely man stories.

This is one of the first lonely men story. He's actually in a kind of late period right now in which all of his movies in the last five years, I just think, are wonderful. And he's really like recaptured, I think, a lot of what's so cool about this movie. in particular. But, you know, he's a guy who is obsessed with movies, who got his start as a critic after leaving the Midwest where he was raised as a Calvinist in this really repressed environment. And he came out to L.A. and he made a bunch of cool friends. And he started getting kinky, getting weird, you know?

And he started getting into guns. And he started getting into gay culture and trying to understand it and get a little closer to it. And he started getting into fashion and working out and the life of the mind. And he's a really fascinating thinker. and he's a really transgressive guy who's very known for pushing the envelope of what is tasteful, what's acceptable in our culture.

This movie, though, unlike, say, hardcore, which is the movie that precedes the city wrote and directed, that's a really moralizing movie. That's a movie seen through the eyes of a father whose daughter has left home to go become a porn star. She's a runaway. They don't realize that she actually wanted to run away and she's now in L.A.

And when George C. Scott finds her, it turns out she's been making some porn. This movie is seen through the eyes of a jigolo. It's the inversion, and it sets off this course where he starts telling stories not about what's right and what's wrong, but about what's inside of people and what makes them do the things that they do, which I think is a really interesting setup for a movie like this. Not to mention, I think what will be more fun to talk about, which is this is one of the more beautiful and sort of sexy and stylish movies ever made. Yeah. I am stunned to hear Sean say that he's drawn to a filmmaker with a really, like, repressed upbringing who moved to L.A. and lived out the fantasy of the lonely man and sex and fashion and what is really driving. All of us, I'm stunned that this is something that Sean's interested in spending his time thinking about.

I was also stunned. And Mallory is one of our busiest podcasters, and we only bring you into the rewere. Watchables when we really, really need you. This movie reeks of sex. It's sweating out the sex as you're watching it. And Richard Gear, my mom's favorite actor ever. Really? I thought she was going to be here today. I have to say.

I asked her. I was like, do you want to do the rewatchable? She's like, no. But just make sure you talk about how gorgeous Richard Gear is. But he's just, this became a seminal Richard Gear part. We'll get into the Richard Gear part in a second. But this movie when you watch it. When you say the Richard Gear part, you mean his penis.

Well, and this created the side dick era, which we're going to go into later. You'll be going, you guys will be going into that later. I'll be sitting that apart out. But the sex, the sex piece of this and how it oozes out of the movie, really unusual. I don't think there was a precedent for a movie like this. I'm sure there are movies that had pieces of it, but I don't feel like there was a movie like this. There are movies that have more nudity. Right.

That are maybe even more raw. This movie is not... They weren't cool, though. Right. This is like a cool movie about a guy who's in the sex world. But it's not about a guy who loves sex. No. You know, like, that's not really...

This isn't a horn dog. He's a, like, a blue collar worker. You know, like Paul Schrader's first movie is called Blue Collar. It's about a bunch of guys who work in an auto factory. He kind of has a lot in common with this guy. He has a discipline. He has a job to do. And it's to get old women off.

Yeah. Like, that's what he does. It's a very sexy. movie, but I think actually revisiting it, there's less sex in the movie than maybe you remember. And it's very much about sex as style and sex as a lens through which you discover and forge your own identity. Well, and sex as exploration. Yes.

Because there's a gay subtext of this whole movie that I probably didn't notice as much when I was like 15. Yeah. But now it's that's a piece of it too, like even where the pit works. Anyway, I interrupted you. No, not at all. I think it's interesting that a movie that is called American Jigolo doesn't really have any authentically kind of like rewatchable sex scenes, if you know what I mean? You know what I mean? It's not really a movie that is, this isn't basic instinct.

You know what I mean? It's not, it titillates you in a different way. And that's very purposeful. You know, like that is clearly what Schrader was trying to do. He was trying to tell a story that was transcendental. You know, it was intellectual in a way and beautiful to look at but not necessarily like setting your lonely. on fire. Yeah, it's surprising to say about a movie that features a pretty

protracted stretch of side dick that becomes front dick for a brief moment there. But it's actually less about what you're seeing in those sex scenes and more about what you're not seeing, right? Like, what that's unlocking about the way that each of those characters thinks about sex, thinks about

the sexual identity and awakening or like absence of that actual real connection and how much of that is really like cosplay and a way to sort of manufacture the sense of self that is so much a part of that larger self-aggrandizing identity in the early stretch of the film that ends up then being the perch from which our dear Julian K. Falls.

This is my favorite era just in life, 77 to 79. We just love it the most. Really? If you could time machine me to any part of American history. Why? I just like it. But I think it's because I was an only child watching all these movies and TV shows and the fucking car.

and just everything about it. Yeah, there was a looseness to it. Everybody kind of did their own thing. It was depraved in a lot of different ways, but not in a way that it would feel completely depraved now. Nobody kind of knew any better with some of the stuff. The music was cool. The clubs, the bars, like everything.

It seems like there were no repercussions to anything. Like I always said, like, New York in 1977-78 range would have been the coolest place to live because you have Saturday Night taking off and the punk rock scene. and you have disco and just all these different things. The sports were amazing. But then you look at L.A. in 7980 range, which was also amazing.

Because you had, and it was living through some of those shows, right? Like even a show like Charlie's Angels, just like an unbelievable L.A. show, three hot female detectives driving cool cars around, solving crimes. So, Brett Easton Ellis, he wrote about this in his book, White. This is why he loved this. He loved this movie, but he wrote, the gliding camera movements, the gorgeous sets, the dramatic lighting, all aiding in the creation of Schrader's

acid vision of Los Angeles as a brightly colored wasteland. This is a sunlit, neo-noir, ominous, and beautiful. Looking back, the impact of America Jigelahadam, I mean, it's impossible to tell. It was new, it was gay, it ended up influencing everything

from the popularity to GQ magazine to how Calvin Klein began advertising men. This was weirdly, like, one of the most influential movies of the last 40 years, 40 plus years, because it created a look in a style. It created Armani. I mean, Armani existed, but

this whole gear as like the forefront of something. You could even see it. Like I remember, oh, you're not old enough, Sean. The Rangers were in Ula-la-Sasssoon jeans commercials. Like people, you had athletes trying to pretend they were Richard Gear and American Giglo, basically. So there's something

happening here. And I think this movie captures it in a way. I don't think any other 1980-81 movie captured. It has some critical components. that made it a really unexpected success. If you saw Shrader's first couple of movies or even watched the movies that his screenplays were made out of taxi driver,

a rolling thunder, or the Yakuza, all that stuff that came in the 70s. You never would have thought that he would make a movie that is this sexy and stylish, but you also wouldn't think he would make a movie that was a hit.

This movie's a big hit, and that influence that you're talking about is really significant. But in addition to essentially launching Armani, essentially launching Richard Gear into the stratosphere as far as mainstream movie start him went. Apex Bondi. I was going to say a hit song.

Had a hit song. and an incredible score. The score is unbelievable. Georgeo Marauder. Unbelievable. And Marrota, you know, would go on and do the score for Scarface, a number of other movies, and became a huge figure in the world of music. And you put all that stuff together.

And that's the stew, right? Like, you don't, I don't know if you can necessarily even strategize for these things because we'll talk about there's a lot of really fascinating what-ifs around this movie with different stars and different people could have been involved. But they got those pieces right. It's the end of the 70s, too. It's a little bit, the Jack Horner's New Year's Eve party, handing into the 80s where the 70s we're about to have the repercussions for this kind of

hedonistic lifestyle that the 80s is everything's about to flip and it flips in this movie the first 30 minutes you're like this is amazing yeah we're driving around Malibu we're doing wardrobe choices laying our clothes out on bed yeah he's just he's just having sex with different people we're hanging upside down he's got the coolest car on the planet like we're off man And then it just starts to tilt. And by the end of the movie, he's in jail looking through a glass at the love of his life. It's a great point about the Boogie Nights, the changeover.

I wonder if that's something that I wonder what PTA thinks about this movie because it almost is a real-time excavation of that. And also it being set in the time that it is, we're right on the precipice of the governor of California becoming the president of the United States. And who is the emblem of this kind of like go-go-American exceptionalism that Reagan represents, right? and, you know, him being a critical figure in a movie like this becoming successful and becoming aspirational, even though it's like a pretty gnarly neo-noir about murder and prostitution?

Yeah, well, I think that question of the aspirational nature of the story and what is even intended there is like an interesting thing to think about. And some of that is maybe what you project onto the film or the characters when you're watching it at a certain point in your life. But that's where one of the many ways in which L.A. as a character is so central and so expertly deployed because, There are all of those different slivers and slices of L.A. life. So you start with the drive down the PCH and like what could be a better encapsulation and embodiment of the American dream. I've made it. I'm in my bends, picking out my new suits, driving by the ocean. He's not just in A-Benz. He's in the Benz.

The 79-450s. F-Fing S-L. Fucking iconic. It's amazing. But that question throughout the film of like, what room are you able to get into? What room do you want to be in and why? And then is that something you can create and forge for yourself? Or do you have to reconcile and grapple with that moment where you realize someone else has the ability to shut that door on you again?

Like the city is just a fully utilized way of unlocking that particular aspect of his journey. Well, and it's a totally different L.A. And that's one of the reasons I love this movie. Having lived here now for 20 years, LA is still kind of a blank slate. Like this is, they're making this movie during the year, Dr. Jerry Bus bought the Lakers, right?

And he's putting together showtime. Doesn't really exist yet. Hollywood exists, not in the way that it would exist over the next 40 years. Hollywood Boulevard, he drives down there a couple of times. It's clean, but it kind of feels past its prime,

but it's got the stars, but it's certainly not as decrepit as it is now. And then even like, he's driving down the PCH, it's old school PCH. There's none of those little like hard things in the middle. So guys, so people don't veer into the other side of the street. It's just like a two-lane highway right on the beach. He's just popping into Malibu Colony to one of the houses in his bends getting out.

Oh, there's my, there's my madam and her two hookers lying on the deck. Like this LA is gone. It doesn't exist anymore. It's right at that turning point from when it became, it went from a company town to a commercial town, you know, to like a place where everyone came to become successful. It wasn't fancy. You could freaking buy a house on the beach for the same way, you know, you could buy it anywhere else. But then something shifts in the 80s and more wealth comes in the whole thing. This is a Beverly Hills movie, too. That's the other thing. There were not as many stories

about that elevated lifestyle that then took the, you know, the lifestyles of the rich and famous kind of launches right around this time too. And the idea of kind of objectifying everything in our lives. Nobody knew who agents were in the 70s. By the 80s, there were super agents, and stars were bigger. Like in the 80s, you had these, even though we had like Newman and Red Ones, all those people, but in the 80s, you felt like these stars were happening in real time where it's like Eddie Murphy is becoming a star. Slice Stallone is becoming an A plus lister and the mechanism of superstard. People magazine, entertainment tonight, all these things start coming along. Yeah, you're right.

And then in the late 80s, the people critically assessing some of the superstar because that's when Spy Magazine comes in. premiere and eventually entertainment weekly and now now we have people that are but in 79 nobody knew anybody could be a star schrader said this is his quote los angeles is probably the most photograph city in the world not positive i agree with that but i'll keep going the challenge was how to make Beijing at this point yeah the challenge was how to make it seem fresh in the end i turned to italy georgio moroder for the music georgia romani for the clothes and fernando scarfei for the design. And that's why this movie has such a

cool look to it. And he catches two waves at the perfect time. Armani and clothes and what Armadi's impact on fashion is going to be. It starts with this movie. And then this weird Tangerine Dream Georgia Marauder with like this amazing movie soundtrack.

We'd The Feet the next year with Michael Mann. Tangerine Dream. Risky Business. Like there's this four-year stretch. Blade Runner, I think is in there. And Van Geles, I think is another figure there in the music. And it's sort of like these synthy, sleek, modern, almost futuristic sounding scores that also have a dream quality.

Yeah. I think Michael Mann is very inspired by American Gigolo. I think he's very inspired by this by Schrader. By Schrader. By Schrader. For sure. So, I just feel like this is a pivotal, shifting moment. But this is also like

a noir movie. Like, we've been making these kind of movies for how many years? Yeah. 80 years? Yeah. If somebody gets framed for murder and he's going to figure it out. It's just that he has a cool job and he's dressed really good. Right. But that kind of feels like a parallel too, the noir into the neo-noir and going to tap into Italy the synth modern music, but this like old, deeply steeped and rooted fashion sense that is at once like hyper modern driving us into this new age, but connected to something that feels like the oldest money in the world. Yeah.

You know? And so that unlocks to that aspect of where Julian is navigating into this world that he knows he was not a part of. not born into and is trying to penetrate this like new vore striver mentality and the the music the fashion all of it is very of a piece with that larger pursuit i think that's i mean this is that's a theme that's been now in tv and movies you see it in prestige tv white lotus season two the you guys haven't seen it no by the time people are the rewatchables they'll see the first episode but there's two italian basically hookers that are trying to get in with michael imperialis character, right? Same thing. It's like, I want to be in this world. This is the richest, coolest

world. How do I get in? I don't belong here, but I'm going to try to figure it out, which is kind of hanging over this movie with gear, too, right? He goes to Palm Springs, has sex with this weird couple while the husband's watching. He goes hang out that older lady who's in town from wherever. There's another person coming from Sweden, and it's like, it's gets to dabble in this world, but he's not really a part of it. It's a jet-setting lifestyle that he's insinuating himself into by providing this service. But, I mean, and maybe we'll,

we can wait to talk about this, but like, this isn't, this movie doesn't, it glamorizes, but doesn't like, and authenticate, but doesn't support

the materialism that decade is defined by. Like, it's a rejection of that, really in a lot of ways. So it's interesting that, like, it's effects and the things

that we like about it, that we talk about that we'll celebrate in the conversation, that wasn't the, like, that wasn't supposed to be the takeaway.

The takeaway wasn't supposed to be you should dress in Armani. You know, it's supposed to be the material things don't matter. Isn't that what makes Schrader so fascinating, though? Because he's commenting on this thing that he clearly doesn't love, but he's doing it in a way where he makes you want to fall in love with the characters and the lifestyle. But then he kicks you in the nuts with it. Yeah, it's true.

The takeaway of first reformed wasn't supposed to be put pepto-bizmal in your bourbon, and yet you've been doing it every night since. Every night that I watched the New York Mets, that's when I do it. So in the Schrader universe, what spot does this movie? Occupy. Is this the most important movie he made for him as a director? Like, just his, is it the first movie people would mention?

I still think even though he didn't direct to taxi drivers, the thing he will be most associated with forever. Gosh, it's probably the movie that set up his career as a filmmaker. Yeah. And allowed him to me, I mean, he's made 25 movies at this point, and he's still extremely active in as, like, I said before as good as he's ever been. I don't know if it's his, it's definitely not his best movie, which is kind of what's interesting about it.

No. I think it's his most influential, though. Probably. Because so many of the aspects of this just got ripped off. And like the movies we're doing this month, I think what's cool about them is each one brings you into some sort of world, right? And this is one of the best things about this movie.

I'm just in a world. I don't know this world. I'm in L.A. I'm hanging out with this dude who has sex with women and maybe a couple men in there, but they don't really address it. And he's moving around, he's navigating this giant city that I don't really understand.

He's going to Malibu and Beverly Hills and Palm Springs, all these different places in a cool car. But he knows it's kind of fucked up, and then things flip on him. So I wanted to ask you both this, because I can't tell even now, and even after having read a lot of interviews with people who were part of the movie,

did he invent this world and this Los Angeles, or was he journalistically kind of manifesting something that was there and putting it on screen because it's so attractive that you could see someone walking out of the movie, buying the soundtrack, going to Barney's,

getting an Armani suit, and then kind of like embodying what Julian represents. But how much of it is constructed, you know, like how much of it is, and how much of it was Traders saying, like, here's the real L.A., and I'm trying to make the real L.A.? Can a movie be that influential

that it can almost like create a strand of society. Because it does feel like it's trying to do that. And like it's not long before Pat Riley is in an Armani suit on the sidelines of a Lakers game. Like it had a real world impact in the way that people looked, dressed, talked, thought about each other, built their own personas. See, I don't feel like he created it. I feel like a lot of times with the movies that end up lasting, they're tapping into a world that already exists, but nobody had really thought about it or put it in the right perspective. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I think that's like where the subculture idea comes in, right? Casting a light and like centering not only a specific sliver of life, but the many different strands of L.A. subcultures that the movie is like kind of stitching together into its specific tapestry of L.A. And obviously like one of the interesting things about L.A. in film and real life and any number of respects is just L.A. can kind of be whatever you want it to be, right? There's no one L.A. The one L.A. is the many L.A. is inside of it.

And so, like, this particular focus, we're going to take you inside of the Beverly Hills Hotel and the auction at Sotheby's. But we're also going to take you— The Sunset Plaza apartments. Yeah, we're also going to take you into the nightclubs at 3 a.m. and the back deck of the beach where the person you're turning to is maybe your only lifeline is also telling you they think you probably did the thing. And what does it mean if, like, that's your support network and this is the way you live your life. the record shop. Like the Westwood is an interesting area for a lot of the movie to spend time in because there's like a hip, youthful quality to that. It's like a college town.

Yeah, to that part of L.A., right, the proximity to UCLA, et cetera. That is also then a totally different element from the other aspects of the film and that version of L.A. So I think it's like that specific brew and the way that they're presented in tandem. as the things that Julian is moving in and out of. Right, the underbelly on the mainstream. Yeah. I don't think any movie in my life has captured all the attractive things about L.A., but that are also like super vapid.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, where it's like, you're just watching him drive down the PCH and you're like, why doesn't everyone live here? You know, or he's navigating the Beverly Hills Hotel world, and it's like, that seems like the coolest place in the world. But then when you actually live fair, it's like, eh, I've been all these places. You do all that stuff, right? And you check it off the list.

And then that's not really what your life is about. Exactly. It's not that you don't do that every day. Although, if there were two hookers on the deck in my beach house with the madame. I don't know. I could talk myself in there if I was single. But that's the thing is like it's his job to live that lifestyle. He has to, it's literally work.

If we had to podcast at the Beverly Hills Hotel and then have drinks every day, maybe we would feel differently about it. We would turn into horrible people. Sounds great. Do you think he likes his life? Well, that's what I was just going to say, actually. Before it falls apart, I'm saying up until the moment, do you think he actually likes it? I think that he thinks he's supposed to.

Mm-hmm. Right. And that like this idea of Julian K. Is this agent of pleasure and like the lone man in the universe who has the nobility, dare we say, courage to pursue the female. orgasm is like he just has turned himself into a superhero in his mind and the cloak is yeah the cloak is not a magical cloak it's an armani suit and like the i think his own apartment is one of the most interesting sets for that idea because on the one hand it's the sanctuary like he tells michel i don't women don't come here right it's a separate thing but it's almost more of like a museum store room than a home it's

just full of all these things he's been collecting to surround himself with reminders that he's like, quote unquote, made it. Yeah. But think about the number of times that that space is disrupted and how that specifically, the coming in from the, seeing the police straight, everything's everywhere. Like the idea that he has to tear up his own apartment because he thinks they've planted the jewels there. That disruption forces him into the state, among other things, of just constant paranoia

where he can't be comfortable in his own life. And that's like, does he like his own life? Does he think this is what he wants? Like he's constantly having to confront the fact that it's all an illusion. And Leon's a really interesting character in that respect, too, because even though he's the one who's framing Julian at the end and isn't someone you're supposed to trust, he's also the one who's issuing these warnings to him throughout the film. Like keeps bringing up his rich pussy, right? And saying to him, like, they're going to turn on you and then you're through. And he was right.

Most of Schrader's protagonists are compared to monks and he talks about the monastic lifestyle and he's raised in this very religious environment and this is like halfway through the movie it's like if a monk was shown incontrovertible proof that there is no God

and it's like what happens to your life if you're on top of the world and you're this incredibly sexy jigolo and you've got the best clientele and you're making money and you drive in your Mercedes and then something turns and you both find you get love in your life,

which is something you're not supposed to have access to because you have a job to do. And also everything might be taken away from you. All your possessions, all your freedom, everything is going to go. It's a really clever idea for a movie. It's weird that I was going to do this later, but do it now. The one thing that's missing is cocaine. He has the one.

There's the mirror, the running the finger over the mirror in the one. But I would have thought, like, this is the cocaine error. It's the cocaine air for filmmakers. It's pulpit. A bet there is no stranger. Schrader was no stranger as were any of his peers. It's more of a cocktail movie. It's weird that it is.

Yeah, it's like he almost doesn't want that in there. But I feel like LA and New York cocaine is ever at this point. But again, I think like he does that in his own. We see him do cocaine in his own home alone. But like the kind of women that he's attempting to surround himself with probably aren't doing cocaine. They're drinking fancy cocktails. Yeah, maybe. Let's take a break.

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Coming back, the most interesting thing of this movie from a philosophical standpoint is Lauren Hutton's character is basically like, can I please you in the right way? And he's basically like, I'm dead inside,

this is what I do for a job for a living. You'll never please me the way I can please you. We have one of the world's renowned sex experts here, Mallory Rubin. What's going on there? Is he in the closet? Is it no woman can please him? Or is it like he's just been doing this for so long?

That part of him has been murdered. When you watch a basketball game, Bill, do you get pleasure out of it anymore? Yes. Especially when it's Russell Westbrook, taking a jumper with 30 seconds left, up one. I do. I think this idea that he has forged his entire sense of self

around his career as a jigolo, his ability to give pleasure to other people, has like, he's like disassociated from, it brings him pleasure almost like emotionally and spiritually. Like when he stand there saying, who else would take the time? There is, I think like a sincere and earnest pride there

that is, he might as well be saying he's like figured out world peace. Yeah. He believes that he has achieved something like singular and meaningful. But when Michelle says, I can't give you any pleasure and you can't fool me, he's like not open to his own personal pursuits because it's this thing that is like a carefully crafted facade. So if he allows that to soften, much like his penis and the side dick seen by the mini blinds, as we'll get to, there's a vulnerability there, you know?

It really requires opening yourself up to potentially getting hurt. And like when he hears, the most vulnerable moment for him is ultimately when he like breaks down at the end hearing that Michelle loves him. And it's like this is a, again, there's a lot of sex, there's a murder, there's framing, it's a crime thriller. This is like ultimately just a guy who doesn't have a single meaningful connection with anybody in his life until he can find that with Michelle. So I know we're not going to talk about the show a lot today, by the way, but I will say it was interesting to me in the premiere of that that they kind of went out of their way to address this specific question with that scene where Julian slash Johnny in the show is like, no, when I'm with you, it's real.

When I'm with you, it's a different, different thing. And I think Julian in the film here has to really work his way to that kind of clarity. But still, even from the jump, never takes the money, doesn't want that from her, right? So he knows he needs a different kind of connection and feels that with her. But this isn't a guy who really can let himself be happy. I think there's another part of it, though, too, which is that ambiguity and mystery are an essential part of his work. That he has to seem unattached and dynamic. And the same is true for the murder case for most of the movie.

You don't really know whether he did it or not. They withhold a lot of information in this movie for a long stretch of time. The same way Julian would withhold information about how he feels about things, other than just this performance of sexual godlike, you know, power. And it's all, it's all like really, really clever, I think. This idea of like restraint, repression, putting all your feelings over here so that you can do what you need to do over here. Like that's a big theme of the movie, I think, in a lot of ways.

Well, he's got that scene after he has sex with Lauren Hunting one of the times. And then it comes around. It sounds like he's talking dirty to her, but he's on the phone. Yeah. And she's just lying next to him. And it's like, incredible. Oh, man. Okay.

So you can just turn this on like. But that's a perfect example, actually, because he's like, oh, I've got a heart on. Oh, I'm going to have to hang up and jerk off immediately. And then we see him and he's like definitely not aroused and also it's just ready to order a croissant for breakfast. Yeah. So it's a show. And like, if his entire sense of self is I'm the one who brings you pleasure, then there's no room for anything else. Like that's his, that's his whole pursuit, being that guy.

But I think it's interesting that he spends a lot of time talking to Michelle about figuring out what you want and like taking your pleasure where you can and what pleasure even means to him. Because even though his life is sex, it's like sexual gratification in his direction is not really the point for him. Listen, I identified that when I was bartending, same thing. When you become that good at giving other people pleasure and it just becomes a rotating group of people. Like you end up not looking out for yourself as much. I identified. What was your go-to cocktail that you made that just gave people pleasure? Is there something in particular that you just nail and rumming Coke?

Like, what happened? The BS cocktail. Do you ever make a cocktail for someone who hadn't had one in 10 years and you spent three hours making it to get it exactly right? Got to get that thing perfect. Let's talk about the Chirvota piece of this. We're going to step on casting what ifs. It's too important for casting what ifs. Chavolta, who's going to come up later in sleazy, sexy, what are you?

I call it, sleazy, sexy, seedy. Sleak. Sleak, early 80s, sex, new R month. You've added a couple, a couple new words. Nice, concise, easy to rolls right off the top. Early 80s, sex, neo-newar month? Sure. Getting better.

Trovota's on a heater. He's done Saturday fever and grease back to back. He has to do moment by moment and pretend he'd been literally Tom on our track to each other. One of the funniest movies ever made. his castings announced for this movie in 1978 he's in a variety of photos spread wearing Armani but then when they go to film the movie in 1979

he decides to drop out and there's a lot of different reasons why he dropped out he is the biggest under 30 star in the world at this point him being in this movie it actually probably you could argue about it'd be bigger I think you could make the case that if he was in it it would have staved off his 1980s dip it could have because he does make Urban Cowboys

which is also a big hit and a big movie for him. But after that, you know, blow out in a couple of good movies. But the 80s were pretty grim for him. It turns fast. So the official story was that he dropped out to deal with his mother's death and father's illness. Now, Schrader, one of the great things about Schrader. Honest. Honest, remembers everything, or at least his version of the events.

Isn't afraid to talk about it. Talks a lot of shit. Schrader says he had two things here. I got a call from Kit Carson, who'd been living with Karen Bull, who's an actress and a Scientologist. And he said, you didn't hear this for me, but John's been talking about dropping out in the Scientology meetings.

Then Schrader, who said this recently in the last five years, said Travolta was, quote, freaked by the homosexual stuff. He was very much in the closet at the time and started to realize that a lot of the people involved in the film were gay and that it'd be a gay take on the material

even though his manager, Bob Laman was very gay. Maybe it was Bob himself who started getting comfortable. Then there was another piece where supposedly he wanted final cut approval. He kept all the Armani suits and he dropped out two weeks. I couldn't believe Shrader said the Chralta stuff.

I didn't know he said that. He was very much in the closet of the time. Wow. Let me just give you a little context for this. Yeah. His new movie is called Master Gardner. It doesn't have a release date yet, but I just saw it a few weeks ago.

And it's about a guy who's a master gardener. He's a lonely man who masters his craft, who also is a former proud boy. He's a former neo-Nazi. And it's an empathetic portrait of redemption in the face of being a neo-Nazi. This is what he does. Like, he is like, I don't fucking care.

And you know who he wanted to play the part? Joel Edgerton plays the part, but he wanted Kevin Spacey to play the part in 2022. Oh, my God. Like, Trader is a little unhinged and a real provocateur. And in part, I think he sometimes gives interviews in which the purpose of the conversation is to draw you out and to have you talk about it on a podcast,

because he is expert at that. Whether or not all of that is true about Travolta, it's all speculation, obviously. It's impossible to tell. But what I will say is that the final cut, thing, that feels like an excuse a star gives to not do something, you know, and not really the reason. To put Schrader in perspective, there's a book called Schrader on Schrader. He's like, all of my interviews I've given up over the years, they're not enough. How about a whole book

where I just talk? Sean has it. Wow. Do you carry that around with you every day or did you bring it just today? I've been reading it to my daughter, Alice, at night as she goes to sleep. That book came out since I knew Sean, and it was basically like, it was a big day. It was like no. as Ark and it's just been released. That's the paperback. You have the hardback? I don't have the hardback. He's got Follio Society special edition, custom illustrations. So as Sean said, Schrader does

Urban Cowboy, which is a huge hit, but a little different. Travolta does Irving Cowboys. Sorry, Travolta. And then does blowout, which, spoiler, might be coming up this month as a movie. Great movie. Might be my second favorite Travolta performance. Oh, wow.

Richard Gear was our fourth choice. I'm not going to give the other two until we get to casting what if. two weeks before shooting. He had been in looking for Mr. Goodbar, which is a really good movie with one of the most disturbing endings to the point we would never do it on the rewatchables because it's not a rewatchable

because once you get to the last 15 minutes. Have you seen that one? No. Oh my God. That's a good homework for you to check it out. Because it's a little bit of a precursor to this movie and a handful of the other movies that we're talking about.

And it's about the sexual revolution. it's about a woman who's going, who is a teacher who kind of cruises bars at night looking for men to have increasingly based on a famous book. Complicated and sometimes violent sex with. Stars Diane Keaton. And Richard Gears becomes obsessed with her

in the movie. It's actually probably one of the best Diane Keaton performances in the movie. She's very, she's really good. It's an interesting movie. You're right though, the ending. The last 50 minutes is, it's fucked up. Yeah, it's too, it goes too far. But anyway, Gear is on the map with that.

And then it's kind of lingering. He's in a couple of the movies, but it never happens. And as so often, I mean, ironically, this happened with him with pretty woman with Julia Roberts. Where it's like, perfect part, a bunch of people passed on it. Regrettingly, they go with this young unknown, and they blow up and become a phenomenon. He becomes a phenomenon. And then... Can I just ask you both, like, what you think it would have been with Travolta?

Because I assume you find Richard Gere more attractive and more right for the part of Julian. Yes, I think so, though I do think Trevolta would have been great. I think he does have that sexual charisma. And also, I think the, is this guy secretly gay or not stuff, would have been really fascinating with Chavolta. Yeah. But I think Gehr played into that, too. Like, Gere said, it was one of the things that attracted him to the role was that, that,

and kind of scared him off on the role at the same time. He pleads kind of ignorance, though. He's like, I don't know anything about gay culture at all, so this was interesting to me because I was not, I had no familiarity with it at all. Trevolta is more complicated, I think. Gear is certainly more believable in terms of the, I'm not going to talk about where I came from or my past and this sense of the unknown of what this person's history is, which, again, as Bill and I,

and probably very few other people know, has been a central focus of the reimagining on the television show. Yeah. But, yeah, I think that gear is in that sense of like, what's this guy's story, what's his history, where did he come from, what was his life like before, probably a better thing for that part of it. He owes a lot to Travolta.

Yeah. Stroto passes this up. Chavoto turns down an officer and a gentleman. It becomes the defining gear movie of the 80s. I love that. It's still an amazing movie. It will be on the rewatchables at some point.

That might be my mom's favorite. I think she would point to that as the seminal Richard Gear experience in her life. I saw that movie with my mom and stepdad in the sex scene felt like it was going on for five hours. It was one of those

awkward movie theater moments in my life. I also saw that out with my mom on top of her on top of gear. It's just like, can this end please? And then also Chicago.

Was your mom just cackling? Was she just like, yes! My mom was on a gear heater. She saw Breathless in the theater like the whole thing. Breathless is like her favorite gear movie. I was going to say like he

this movie is, American Jingle is the one that confirms it, but he's like the lord of the kind of erotic, passionate, sexual thriller. I mean, he's really been in so many of these movies as recently as like

unfaithful, you know, like he's... But that was what's weird about unfaithful as he plays the cuckold basically in that one. Yeah. Normally he would have been the guy stealing the way. But that's part of what's clever about it. Yeah, yeah.

So, gear owes a lot to Travolta, but gear just hits at the right time and it's a weird market correction. It's like an anti-market correction where Chavolto is going to get offered all the gear parts before gear, but didn't want to do half of them. So then Gere just steps in and crushes it as like the handsome leading man guy.

And then Goldman wrote about this in one of his books. Like, Gere goes on one of the worst movie stretches that anyone's had. He has anti-hits for six, seven straight years. Movies like King David and things like that. And by the time it gets the Pretty Woman, he's like the 130th choice for Pretty Woman. But then he's in Pretty Woman and he's great. And they're looking for somebody like Richard Gere, and it turns out he's right there a lot. but he's been in so many bad movies.

He's, like, just box office poison. So him and Travolta had a bizarre 80s. Travolta's career is over by the end of the 80s. Yeah, Travolta doesn't work as much as gear. Year makes a lot of movies in the 80s. I like Power, the Sydney Lament movie. Power's pretty good, yeah. It wasn't a hit, it was pretty good.

And then I think in the 90s, he's like kind of in the firmament of Hollywood. Like, he's pretty much in a movie every year. Some of them are good. Some of them are not. Some of them are weird, like King Arthur movies. But some of them are primal fear. And internal affairs. Every woman are the same year. And Chavolta had the resurgence too in the 90s.

So that was good. The music, the score got nominated for Golden Globe. And then Blondie was, the song was number one for weeks and weeks and was the biggest song of their career. Awesome song. One of the great songs. There's no downside to coming on ever at any point. And I think that really helped the movie as well. $5 million budget, $52 million bucks.

Not bad. Pretty good business. Our guy, Raj, three and a half stars from Roger Ebert. He said, this whole movie has a winning sadness about it. Take away the story's sensational aspects. And what you have is a study in loneliness. It's true. And gravity boots.

Nailing it. Nailing it. Raj. Love to hear it. I was actually surprised he liked it because I would have thought he would have been like not sold on the. Roger's a story guy. I thought he would have been worried about this story. I do think a lot of other critics felt that way for what it's worth.

It's a little, a lot of Schrader's movies are a little airy. They're a little about atmosphere and about psychology. They're not about story. Was Pauline K.L. pro or anti-Schreter? I want to say pro. I'd feel like she was pro, too. I feel like she was pro. I mean, De Palma was her guy, but Schrader, I'm sure was...

She might have even defended obsession, which is the De Palma Shrader team up, which is much maligned. Even by De Palmaites, it's like one of his least successful. All right, let's see the categories. Most rewatchable scene. The opening credits are flat out incredible. Amazing. We have the 450 SL. We have Blondie.

We have an armony fitting. It's seen trying stuff. I'm also giving it the pursuit of happiness best needle drop award. And the Great Shot Gordor Award for the high shot of him driving down the PCH. I could have watched that for five hours. Beautiful. Love it. For the people listening out there, at some point in life, you have to drive down the PCH.

It just has to be done. It's great. It's the most important 40-minute car ride that anyone's ever had. Yeah. It really is. It is. I recommend that. Anyway.

Can I just make a quick point? The car and the PCH and the arm... It's just, wow. So we shot by John Bailey, former president of the Academy of Motion Picture Art and Sciences. No. No. Former president of the academy, yeah, of Ampas. This is his first big movie.

And then six months later, he goes off and shoots ordinary people. And then he goes on to, like, one of the great cinematography careers in recent Hollywood history. Oh, that's awesome. What a stretch for our guy. A tidbit. Remember fucked up family February? Was it better than sex neo-noir early 80s month? I think they're both great.

Thank you. The first gear hutting scene in the hotel. You're something really special, aren't you? You want to talk. I saw you sitting here. You wanted me to come over. I came over. I know what I see.

How much would you charge me? as what? Translator or God? No. Just one. Now you've made a mistake. I don't do that. You don't, huh?

I know what I see, too. You see a gay. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Madam Just. Don't support it. B'all chance. This chemistry galore. Hutt and not Merrill Streep.

I will say... Could have been. I will say... one of my favorite kind of females celebrity females of all time meaning like how she existed in our culture I just loved her

I loved her as a kid I love her now I love that Hollywood kept trying to fix the gap and it's like keep the fucking gap the gap is great and in the movie shows them the gap which is the woods age the worst for me

give her the fucking gap the gap was what made her she was lights out anyway and the gap made her great voice great everything. I wish she had been in more movies. Sean's in. My mom had a gap,

and she was a very pro-Lorne Hutton for this exact reason. She's like, she deserves to be famous with the gap. I love it. Yeah. It is that first conversation is amazing. The French.

Oh, my God. But that whole, like, the misunderstanding. Literally, are we speaking the same language or not, right? But also in the subtext and the text of what they're saying, this is, of course, the absolutely iconic, no, just one fuck moment, where you're like, oh, this is the kind of movie we're about to get. Sensational.

In the 70s, there's only a couple supermodels you knew about. It was the Sports Illustrated ones, basically Cheryl Teeks was the biggest one. And then Lauren Hutton was Revlon and I think one other thing. But she was just, as a kid, I only knew like three models. And then she starts popping in movies too. But she occupies a really weird place because, I feel like if she comes along 20 years later, she's probably like a billionaire.

Because you see like how Cindy Crawford and Giselle and how people have really figured out how to monetize a look in a different way. But in the late 70s, you weren't going to know to do that. So everybody's move was, oh, we'll put them in movies. That happened with Maude Adams.

He's in my beloved Rollerball. And she's in some fucked up movies like tattoo with Bruce Dern. Yeah. She's beautiful. Beautiful. But that was like, what is she going to do?

It's like, oh, I'll model and then I'll make some movies. And it would kind of go either way. Lauren Hutton ends up being a big part of this movie. There's some interesting casting what ifs with that part, though, that we can debate when we get there. I really like that scene. I like the old 1979 L.A. hotel scene with the booths and like the weird kind of ugly fabric, but it's cool. And there's like a pristineseness about it. The lighting and the red lighting.

Everything. It's a light. But also like the exchanging jackets moment. The way that you understand with just that little shorthand that this is where he lives. This is his world. This is his world. Great stuff. The next one I have for most rewatchable scene I wrote down,

Julian's Palm Springs Cuckfuck. Is that fair? Fair description? Is this a rewatchable scene? I have it on my list too. I think so weird. It's so weird. You have to have a super weird jigolo scene in here.

You have to. It tells you everything, obviously, about what his job actually is. Yes. A stoned older lady just lying out of bed. Well, it's on the heels of him saying to Michelle in the prior scene, like, oh, no, you've made a mistake. Like, that's not what I do. And then we immediately see what he does. Yes.

Although I like the differentiation between what Nina Van Palin's character gives him the kind of clientele versus what Leon's jobs. For sure. Definitely. Definitely. The guy's like the perfect guy. for it too. He's got like that weird wig. It's like that weird color.

He's just a creep. He's just so, he's just want to like a shower. I've definitely sat next to that couple at dinner in Palm Springs. Oh, yeah. Okay. What kind of weird S&M shit are you guys doing with the jigilos? Great stuff.

And then he just kicks in the gear. Oh, baby. I know how to please you. You're a very sexy lady. Very good-looking woman. A pretty woman. You're going to like me. Let me tell.

Close your eyes. I think there's a case. A good-looking lady. I think that there's a case that even though it is quickly transformed into a very disturbing scene because of the husband's role and then, of course, certainly rewatching it when you know what is going to come with the murder, it's deeply disturbing. But just for Julian and the gear performance, that stretch, first of all, the dialogue, unbelievable. Unbelievable. But the way that he is moving in his body.

body and like interacting with judy the like gently caressing her face and the way that he's undressing like there's this almost like choreography and like lyrical flow to what he's doing and it's just fascinating and it's really intimate and sexy in a way that like you're supposed to be shocked out of that right and you are quite forcefully very quickly. Yeah, I'm going to rhyme and drops a very unfortunate line of dialogue. I can take care of you though. The way that he... It's a dance, right?

He's doing a dance. He does it in Internal Affairs, too. Gear had the side to him that he only unleashed in a couple movies, but where you just felt like, I'm not leaving my wife or my daughter alone with that guy for five seconds. They'll just both be gone.

But he didn't tap into it a lot. A lot of times he did in breathless movies like that, but by the time he got to like mid-late 80s, he was trying to be not that guy anymore. A serious actor. Internal Affairs, it's the best part of internal affairs. Fares.

The guy's just a complete maniac and he's great. Next one I have is just called Geard gets dressed. It's amazing. It's amazing. That's just Shrader just fucking cooking.

That's Shrader pulling up from 30. It's like, watch this. Pure style. Next one I have is naked gear telling Hutton and orgasm story. Craig, just play that clip for us. I had not

I met you at the hotel. I was with a woman. somebody's mother her husband didn't care about her anymore this woman had an orgasm in maybe 10 years took me three hours to get her off for a while I didn't think I was gonna be able to do it when it was over

felt like I'd done something something worthwhile who else would have taken that time I cared enough to do it right oh my god now when it was over I felt like I'd done something worthwhile is this you after Westbrook goes oh for nine

Oh for nine and you record a pod that night. Right. Yeah. It's like Westbrook went 0 for 22. I felt like I did something worthwhile. Amazing. This is also the side deck. It is.

It is. The side dick by the mini blinds. The way that he's like rubbing his stomach and like trying to stand in a certain posture, it has a very like paint me in the nude kind of. No man has ever touched themselves in that way. No one stands that way, but that's part of why it works. so well, like it feels so staged, but also weirdly and counterintuitively because of that, like, you really are seeing someone in their element in a way that, like, you shouldn't be.

And that whole conversation that they're having and what he's revealing in that moment about the way that he thinks about the work is just absolutely incredible. That's something worthwhile. It's just amazing. Honestly, it's an amazing scene. Well, it's also, I think one of the first times. ever, like a male star flash some

Johnson in a movie. That's what it said in the script. It's a Julian flashes some Johnson. Flashes some side Johnson. No, but that's the thing is it was not in the script according to gear. He was just like, it's time for me to show it off. But it became part of the market

in the movie. Like, Dress to Kill, which came out the same year, a big part of it was Angie Dickinson in the beginning, she's showering and they cut to a body double. And it makes it seem like it's her, but it's not. and then the body double became part of the marketing. I'm like, here's who is the body double, and it's Angie Dickinson.

You've never seen her like this. The gear nudity thing, I think, was a piece of this movie. And the guy throws it. You're slightly disappointing, though. I thought it was great. No, I mean, I felt like he could have made you've done some self-fluffing a little bit. Like, now we're in the self-fluffing era. Any guy who gets naked in a movie, you can tell the way, can give me like 30 seconds here to really get some blood down there?

Grower. Gears like, I'm just... It's a grower, not a shower, maybe. You know? I got no comment on gears. Gears girth. I thought it was all wonderful. We won't be telling my grandkids about it.

Julian... Next one, Julian versus Detective Sunday, Hector Elizondo. They would team up again and pretty women in the shoe shine place. It's an amazing scene. I'll tell you what. You lay off my clients. I'll give you a few points. Picking up women, okay?

How's that? First, obviously, you dress for shit. Anybody can fix that, no problem. It's your face. Face, face, face. And your body, what's wrong with your body? You have back problems? Look like our monkeys, that.

Hey, back, shoulders, back, back. Your jaw. Work the jaw, exercise. You don't want it, slack. Uptight, tight, tight. Right, tight, yes. Uh-huh. Would you be willing to come in for a lineup?

Do they have shoe shine places anywhere? I like the shoe shine was way bigger in the 70s. I think in the airport you can still get that done in certain airports. Good cat and mouse game.

I like a good count in mouse game dialogue. Elizondo is elite. He's really good. First, obviously you dress for shit. Anybody can fix that. No problem. It's your face, bad face.

And your body. What's wrong with your body? And Eliza's just laughing. NFL scouts talking about Sam Darnold right there. It's tough. Bad chin. Bad face.

I love that they somehow bonded during this scene where they're all these things where they're just horrible to each other. It's like, oh, she's coming pretty woman. It can be the hotel clerk or the hotel manager. Julian versus the senator is quick, but I like some of the senators lines. I do know a horror when I see one. You're just a hanger on. Like he basically, he tells the truth, Julian. You don't matter.

Right, right. You're in this world, but you're not. You suck. Right. Here's what power really is. Yeah. Julian goes to probe We go to probe

Like two in the morning What a name for a club Great name Probe Oh my God It's crazy how similar The Gay Bar scene in Probe is To like four cruising scenes

I was going to mention this to you It's definitely And it's before cruising But cruising's happening I think they're even filming it at the same time But Leon's in there and just there's a vibe to it.

It feels very 1979, 1980. Takes us into the world. Yeah. I mean, I'm no surprise that Brady-Snellis, like, loves it because he explores a lot of these kind of similar worlds and themes and a lot of his books, too. Julian searches his apartment and car. Cool shot.

Then he goes to the car. I'm saving all of my commentary here for picking nits. Okay. Some good gear in that one. And then... The tension is very... When he's ripping everything off the walls and... and ripping the car apart?

I like when Gehr gets mad in movies. And then Leon tells Julian what happened. I want to know one thing from you. How much is it going to cost me to get you off my back? You ain't talking money. You're talking murder. How much? I feel sorry for you, Julie.

How much? It don't make no difference how much, Julie. The other side will always pay more. That scene in most movies is like the second. the last scene in the movie. And this movie, it's like the fifth to last scene. And that's really interesting. The choice to like, this movie really stretches out

its ending to make it this much more kind of like emotional, spiritual conclusion as opposed to most noir's where it's like a lot of noir's in the 40s, it's revealed who the killer is or who framed the guy. And then it's just credits. So I had that in what stage or worse, but we'll get to that when we get there.

You were framable, Mallory. Nobody cared about you. I never liked you much. myself. Get out. Tough one. The great Bill Duke. Bill Duke, who's been, I think, in like six rewatchables at this point, Craig?

Fantastic. Yeah, Bill Duke keeps popping up. What do you have for most rewatchable? I have the opening credits. Same. Oh. Has to be. Into the conversation with Nina Van Palin and the girls on the porch.

I just want to add to the rewatchable scene. A scene we've already talked about, but having it in this category is important, which is the scene where they're in bed, the morning after. And he's on the phone with Lisa, talking about the stereo. the breakfast order. And Michelle just has this absolutely dazed. I had 15 orgasms the night before. Look on her face.

Like in an absolute fog of euphoria and pleasure and literally can barely get a sentence out other than no eggs. Amazing. Wood's age the best. We mentioned Gary. We mentioned Lauren Hutton. The Armani brand. Yeah.

The fashion in the film over. all. So Latham's Quarterly wrote in 2018 that Armani in 1975 did $14,000 in

sales, $90,000 next year. By 81, Gigolo has been in theaters. The sales are $135 million. Insane.

Apparently, gear can walk into any Armani store at any time and just pick what he wants. That's cool. Wow. The all-time.

I'm just going in. I'm going to grab I don't know that. I'll grab two suits. That's so awesome. The word in the street, because that's how much he did for our body.

The thing is, it's not just that the fashion is elite, which it is, the way that he wears it. The way that he walks and moves, and even the distinctions

when he has a suit on versus when he has like a cardigan on or a pullover on. It's just absolutely incredible. And also Michelle is very well dressed, and then like Sunday, as we just discussed,

dress is like shit. So the way that fashion is used as a contrast. He's flowing through the movie, you know, and that's a secret power of movie stars as the clothes really hang on them beautifully, you know? Like, no offense to anybody in this room, the four of us as we're talking,

we're wearing our clothes okay. You know, like, there's only so much you can do when you're a person that talks into a microphone all the time. But when you're a movie star, like, you have to have, he has that kind of perfect human male frame in the figure. And so part of the reason why that stuff looks so good is because he's built for it and it's built for him. And Schrader said that if any,

if there was one wrinkle when they were filming, he would just stop. Like he wanted him to look absolutely pristine and impeccable at all times. I love it. We mentioned Gears Carr, the 1979 450S. So it shifts. We eventually hit, it becomes a 560 in the 80s. The 450 is 79 and 80, and then it shifts. The 80, I think, is harder to get, but the 79 is the best looking one of all of them.

It's just perfect. It's a perfect. Have you done any scouting? Perfect to see. I scout all the time. You're going to lock one down. I don't know how I don't have this car yet. They're not even like crazy expensive anymore unless you want to get one that's only

been like 15,000 miles, something like that. The car is just perfect. It's the perfect convertible. I don't know why they just don't make the car again. Just make it exactly the same modernize it. It should just exist. Yeah. Get a partnership going with Showtime for the reimagined.

Yeah. It's funny. You know, like one of your passions is sneakers, right? and all the time, they'll reissue classic sneakers all the time with some slightly new updates to them. They basically did it with the Ford Bronco,

which was this awesome car from the 70s, and now they have the new version and it's like sold out. You can't get it. So, I don't know, I don't think this is rocket science. We mentioned what a great LA movie this is. Incredibly use of Malibu and PCH

in the Malibu Colony, Beverly Hills Hotel, Tower Records in Westwood, the Sunset Plaza apartments, which we'll go into and half-assed, But they call it something else in the movie, but this was like a really iconic location. Isn't it called the Westwood Apartments?

Yeah. Clean Hollywood Boulevard. And then this restaurant called Perinos, which becomes a big part of the movie at the end, which I guess went out of business in the 80s, but was one of the places. And that looked like a great, I wish it still existed.

What a cool place. That era of the L.A. restaurant is kind of gone. Yeah. Great wallpaper in the bathroom. Oh, I have the sunset thing now. this is from an oral history that Airmel did. David Freeman, a screenwriter, said, I lived where Richard Gears' character lives,

Sunset Plaza Apartments. They're called Something Else the movie. I don't think there was a person there wasn't in show business. Terry Gar was like the mayor. Everybody had a crush on Terry, including me, but she was too smart to fuck the screenwriter. Robert Forster was there.

Sean's guy. And George Hamilton. He was like, anyone would look at that, complex and knew immediately they were in LA, which is true. That specific apartment complex could not exist in any other city. Maybe Miami. Great pool. Great use of the pool as a set. But you know what really stood out to me about the apartments? The carpet. Oh, yeah. That's just how you feel like you are not in the modern day. It's a beige carpet everywhere. Can you imagine? Craig, you're looking for an apartment, right? Have you considered Sunset Plaza?

Call me, they asked Debbie Harry. They center the opening credit. And that's what inspired her to write call me. Amazing. And she worked on it. She was writing it. She pictured the opening scene. They're already big at this time, too. They're huge.

They're really like, they're realizing their full potential. Stayed number one for six weeks. Mentioned Gere and Hector Elizondo. Schrader was really excited that a couple people call Gear's character Julie instead of Julian in this film, especially the Pimp, because he felt like that kind of tied into the ambiguity of the character that he's, He's basically, even though it's a man, he's basically, you know, a female kind of role. Yeah. And then clean Hollywood Boulevard was the only one.

It was nice to see somebody drive through Hollywood Boulevard and not see somebody taking a dump. You don't have Senator Stratton's fossil fuel-centric platform on here? No, I should have. Really ahead of the curve. He's a good year. He's a good amount of time spent at the political press conference slash charity dinner. A little too long. Yeah.

A little too long. Any other what's age of best for you? I think you hit him We hit a lot at the top I mean Well I'll save it for picking it's Okay Some quickies

Big Cahuna Burger Award for best use of food or drink When he goes to see the nanny at the end He gets that shot And he's not drinking the shot He's just kind of milking it I was like when people People milk the shot

Craig's nodding Also earlier in the same setting He's like oh I have a Manhattan here I just need a shot of bourbon Right So you can like feel it the way to that drink is saying something about his circumstance. Yeah, he leaves that Manhattan with Lauren Hutton's table.

Yeah. The Denna Thieves Benihanna Award for Scene Stealing location. There's a hundred of them. But I think the Sunset Plaza apartments... I'm going with Anne's Beach House. Oh. I mean, you don't have to twist my arm on that one. That's really good.

A remarkable setting. Great. That's really good. I mean, also the Pacific Coast Highway. Yeah. You're right. PCH probably wins that. I'm just going to say for the food award, I have the breakfast order.

Great. But we don't see the food, right? We'd never see the food. I left to go. The Butch's girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. So you mentioned this earlier. I don't, I just feel like the last couple scenes, I don't really get it. I don't, I think it's the weak point of the movie where we have like the basically those drop cuts.

Yeah. Where it just seems like he wasn't happy with how it was ending. So he just kind of threw some shit against a wall. Well, the absolute final scene is good. Is incredible. And it's a direct homage to pickpocket, this Brasson film. Yeah. Which Brasson was like one of his heroes.

And he has since, in other movies, he ended, the card counter ends the exact same way. It is literally with the pickpocket ending. It's like he's constantly in dialogue with those guys that he loved. So that final moment where he puts his head against the window and he like accepts love, I think is incredible. But it's really drawn out where he's four scenes before. Yeah, where he's like being interrogated kind of. And it's like being told he's charged. I don't understand why he did that.

I don't either. I feel like he could have gotten arrested in Lauren Hutton just comes in and saves him and it's the same movie. Yeah. You could have jumped three scenes and it's fine. Yeah. I don't get it. What stage is the worst? The Gear Hutton's sex scene is bad.

I'm going to give this the Mather Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene, which is great because Mowler is here today. Okay. I have so many thoughts on this sex scene, which is utterly surreal and astonishing. this is a movie about someone who spends his entire life having sex. People do not have sex this way. As far as I'm aware, nobody has sex that way. How would you compare it to Top Gun Maverick?

A sex scene where it's just a shirtless cruise laughing hysterically. I mean, I think that is truer to life than the use of the blue sheet. It's mostly overhead shots on top of the bed, but then there's the camera shifting. angle where they're standing in front of the sheet and Lauren Hutton is standing there in the dude. And then Richard Gere's head like comes up in front of the camera. And it always reminds me of Tom Brady's NFL Combine photo that's always circulating on the internet with that like light blue sheet behind him.

He's just standing there like what's about to happen? Like that's the energy there. It's so bizarre. And all of the close up shots of here's a knee and here's an ankle. here's a scar and here's a head resting on the small of a back. Like there's an interest in the human form that is, I guess, compelling, but it's just bizarre. I wonder, I'd love that Schrader if he would do that over again and make the sex scene

a lot more kind of robust. I think it's purposeful. It's like a Picasso painting, though. I think it's like, this is clinical in a way. It's like studying the human body more so than it is studying sexuality, you know, because he's not because he's a guy who just in. stalls widgets every day, but they just happen to be orgasms. You know what I mean? It's just not

it's not emotional for him. This is a what's our age to west from Schrader. Julian was not as gay as he would be today. At the time, we thought we were being brave, promoting this androgynous male entitlement. Now I look back, we were being cowardly. It should have been more gay. Then again, I probably got it made because

Julian pretends not to be gay. Barry Diller wouldn't have made it otherwise. Can I read something from Schrader on Schrader for you? Let's do it. Shrader on Schrader in the house. Okay. I'll wait for Sean on Sean in a few years. A lot of people have asked me why I have this strong concern for and even love for gays

and why my best friends over the last 10 years have been gay and whether it means I'm really in the closet. But it's really because of the liberation I mentioned. I couldn't get there through the heterosexual door. So I went through the other door and then came back round. He's famous for kind of talking about his interest in gay culture and in the world of gay clubs, which he frequented in the 70s, but he's like, I literally couldn't get it up

for another man. And there was a part of me that thought it would be interesting if I could, but I just couldn't get there. And nevertheless, I had this fascination. And so him inserting that feeling

that he had into the movie is really interesting. But I also think it's interesting and he's like, I would have pushed it farther. I would have pushed it farther. I think that's his provocation more so than him putting himself

into the movie in a way. But he's, I mean, he talks about this nonstop. How jealous do you think he was at cruising? I'd love to know what he thought of it. I don't know if I've ever read him talk about it. It's amazing that they come almost directly in succession. Well, so that's why we did the order we're doing.

I'll just tell you now, cruising's coming next week. Unreal. America Jigloaf, February 1st, 1980. Cruising a week later, February 8th. America is getting nutty. That's nuts. What a time at the cinema. Boy.

This is it. This was Little Bill killing himself at the birthday party, and then things are getting weird. or the New Year's party, things are getting weird. Let's take a break and then we'll hit the rest. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce

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Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. All right, Ron Burgundy Flute Award, best time for a pee break. You mentioned that as soon as we're at the political event, you can run off. You got two minutes there. Was there a better title for this movie? No. Best quote, I'm going with.

I don't like playing the same numbers too often. They get possessive. Great strategy. That is a great one. Good PR from gear. You're not going with a look if it's your period? I didn't have that written down. No, that wasn't your best quote of the film?

Okay. I'm going with giving pleasure to women. I'm supposed to feel guilty about that. Great moment. Sean, what's yours? I do like, but I do know a whore when I see one, as you mentioned, what the senator says. I think everything Leon says to Julian is brutal.

you know, or he's like, you were framable, I never liked you, you know, all that stuff. You stepped on too many toes, that insinuation that he's like a real swaggering dick and that everybody knows, and they're like, we got to take you down a notch. S.A.S. Hattest take a word. Here's mine.

I think they should have had a sequel. I kind of run this back in the mid-80s as L.A., way more money and capitalism and the Gordon Gecko era. You think Michelle and Julian don't make it? They don't make it, and Julian's a little older now, what's you doing? I would have liked to have gone back into L.A. mid-80s, the same way we go to L.A., late 70s. Has the television show changed your feeling on this at all, though?

So I abandoned the TV show two episodes. They way overthought this. Yeah. Way overthought it. They just didn't land the plane. It was sitting there, though. I know. We were really encouraged by the pilot.

But yeah. Yeah, you're going backwards, you're going forward, you're going sideways, and I just, I think they lost. Way too complicated. This is a very simple movie. I forgot to put that in what stage is the worst, by the way, is I think the TV show, which it will get canceled after this year. Waste of Bernthal. So many cool pieces, Bernthal and jail was awesome, and then we never go back. It's too bad.

Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah. The Rosie Sunday Renaissance. Yeah. Rosie O'Donnell and Mike Francesa, which I can't tell the difference between them at this point. same haircut, same voice. Like, I think Frances is an episode four. That's Long Island right there.

That's Long Island, baby. You have a hottest take or we move on? We've already covered mine, which is just that there's not enough sex in this movie that is about a gigolo. It's on purpose. I stand by it. And I think especially because the first 30 minutes

where you're seeing him in that part of his life is so riveting. And then the drastic, intentional, but drastic shift in tone and focus. I don't know. Need a little more of it. I mean, Lauren Hutton is just a huge flaw in this film. Like a huge flaw in my opinion.

The character and the performance, I think, are not what I want. And in fact, my take is that if you just put Nina Van Palant into Lauren Hutton's role, slightly older woman, but a very beautiful woman, who's very striking who would be intoxicated by him. It's a better movie. Casting what ifs? Yeah. Tramota pulls out.

They go to Christopher Reeve. Schrader's against it. Barry Dillers is excited about it. Apparently, Christopher Reeve turns down a million dollars. This movie sucks with Christopher Reeve. We bring us so much baggage to Christopher Reeve now. I'm not so sure. I don't know.

It would have been different. He has like that... I don't see it. He has a... Weird body. There's nothing sleazy about him. No, I don't see it. Bad idea.

There's this thing on the internet that Chevy Chase apparently declined it. I just don't believe it. I don't either. I think that's absurd. Who the fuck would put... Paul Schrader would never put Chevy Chase in American Giglo. No. Although, you know, there's, Schrader's quite famous for these bookend movies that he makes.

These are two movies that have similar frameworks. And he made a bookend movie for this movie, and it's called The Walker. It's a very little scene. It came out in 2007, starring Woody Harrelson as a kind of jigolo. Now, Woody Harrelson is not the kind of guy you would think would be, but he likes to play with your expectations of your leading men. Would it have been interesting if Chevy Chase was in this movie? Could he have done a straight, like a direct,

non-comic performance in a movie like this? No. No. Okay. The heart of the character is this like life. This guy can't have a sense of humor. Sensual, deeply serious. No, he's like a fucking, overly self-serious.

He's like a predator. Okay. No. Schrader said on Chris Reeve, I thought he was too all-American, that he didn't have that reptile mysteriousness. So I called Chris's agent and said, I don't think Chris is right for this.

who basically undermined it. Interesting. So Julie Christie was initially cast as Michelle when Travolta was on it. You're a big Julie Christie guy. I mean, massive. Yeah. So to ask me to choose between Julie Christie and Lauren Hutton, I'm just not doing it. I'm still love both deeply.

It's a 10 times the movie with Julie Christie. I mean, Julie Christie, in addition to being so gorgeous, is a much better actor. Way more accomplished. And we'll get to that with recasting, but yeah, love Lauren Hutton. But Schrader said he auditioned a bunch of people and Mia Farrow was the best. He said, I tested her with John Travolta

and she blew John off the screen. She made him look like an amateur, not a kid. She would have been good. Oh, my God. She made him look like an amateur like a kid, not like the seducer. I had to go another way. Wow.

Sue Mangers, famous agent, seized on this, invited me for dinner, seated me next to Lauren Hutton, tested Lauren with John. He was much better with her. John drops out. I want Mia back. But I'm saying to myself, look, I'm playing a dangerous game with Paramount.

I'm changing One Piece and Puzzle, lead actor. And he had two weeks to convince him to put gear in. He thought it was too risky to bring Mia in for Lauren Hutton. Mia Farrow never played a character like this. And I think that's a really fun role for her. I think she's an underrated actress. The Woody Allen, all of it has just overshadowed. You saw her in The Watcher.

Like, she's probably the best actor in The Watcher, but she's never been in a movie like this. I agree. What would have been cool? I mean, most of the 80s is her in Woody films. And there's nothing really kind of sexy. But her is like kind of the, she's the sounding board for this neurotic guy in like nine straight movies, basically. There's internet stuff that Merrill Streep and Jessica Lang turned this down.

Wasn't able to confirm. Merrill Streep, I think, explicitly said that she turned it down, right? Didn't she put, isn't that on the record? She did, but does that mean she turned it down? or like it got floated at her and she's like, no, I'm not auditioning for that. I don't know.

Merrill. Late 70s, Merrill Streep and this would have been as we recall from Kramer versus Kramer. She was a knockout. That would have been fun. Jessica Lang was probably the,

I mean, she seems like she gets thrown in every movie in the late 70s. Like she was one of the most desirable under 30 actresses. Georgio, our guy Maroder. Never expected to hear that on the report.

Joe, I'm a roader. Wanted Stevie Nix for the lead song? Went down the road. Worked out for the best. Interesting. She had turned it down. She just signed a new contract with a record company that she couldn't do a side gig. Went to Plan B, Bondi, rest of his sister.

Who do you get for the Ruffalo Hannah Rubeneck Partridge overacting award? They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady! I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it all your God! Give it all your God! I treated you like a son.

You fucking stand me in the heart. Fuck you. Have a candidate? I mean, Mr. Ryman is really going for it there with that. That's who I have to. You know? That's my pick as well. Don't play that clip clip.

Yeah. Best that guy award, Bill Duke. Has to be Bill Duke. Not Hector. Hector and Bill Duke are too. Is Hector or that guy? They are both legendary were that guys that are no longer that guy. Let's give him to both.

Okay. Two great that guys. Dion Wader's Award. We got Bill Duke. We have Hector Elizando And Kay Callan, the Rich Lady who's with gear And then the husband at the end is like

She was with me that night. Yeah She, this is I'll do it for Apex Mountain. Those are the three. Kay Callan with no period. Just a letter K. Callan.

Amazing. I have it's Bill Duke. It's got to be Bill Duke. Yeah, he's thrown a hundred. Leon. Recasting couch. I think it still should have been Julie Christie. I think the character being a little bit older

and smoking hot, but more realistic married to the senator. The Lauren Hutton married to the senator, they never added up to me. Even though I know that senators have hot whites, but she was like too beautiful and too... Julie Christie, like older, you could see, you know,

she could play it a certain way where she's basically, like in Milfrange. So I don't know. Love Milfringe. That's actually a really good pot idea. Should that have been the movie title instead of American Gigolo? No. That's at Wilson's pod, I think.

Milfrange. I like that. And if you're going younger, I think Jessica Lang would have been amazing. And she ends up making like the postman always rings twice. If she's going to make a sex movie, this would have been the one. I read that Glenn Close was also up for this. So Glenn Close is a good one. She's interesting.

Because she's not sort of like striking supermodel type that Lauren Hutton is. but the idea of her, one, being a senator's wife, two, being really kind of desirous of Julian. I think she does this, like, in jagged edge in movies in the future where she knows how to roll in an erotic thriller. So I think she would have been good. Yeah, she would have been good in the weird,

like nobody in this movie knows how to tail somebody else effectively stretch. Yeah. Bumping into you in the record. That's true. We should have that at what stage of worst. Terrible tailing. It's bad.

Half-ass internet research. Oh, for recasting couch. Who is a Who's American jiggleau now? I guess the answer is Bernthal Because they made the show with Bernthal Yeah No, it's Miles Teller, come on

Miles Teller Yeah, that'd be great Oh wow Is that a younger guy? Bernthal's too old for that part Isn't it Glenn Powell? Well, for He would be good

He's a little like smirky smiley You need somebody Who's more comfortable With a little more brooding, I think Or is the character More bisexual Than is incinerate in this movie And maybe you go for somebody

a little more, I don't know, sexually androgynous. I mean, Timothy Shalemi. Right. Army Hammer? I don't think so. Cannibal Jigolo? I don't. It's a different movie.

Half-Fice Center Research, the nanny, I mean, I'm sorry, the madam, played by Nina Van Pallon, became famous in the early 70s as the mistress of Clifford Irving, the guy who did the hoax biography of Howard Hughes, and then all these years later, gear played Irving in the hoax. Yep. I like that. Come around. Do you remember who played Nina Van Pallant in The Hokes? Who?

Julie Delpy. Oh, our girl Julie. Pretty cool movie. Here's Shrader's story about convincing Barry Diller to do Richard Gear. He said, you don't talk to studio executives on the weekend. He calls him anyway, and he says, I've offered the part to Richard Gear. Barry Dower says you weren't authorized to do that. He's like, Travolta's dropped out.

I want to make the film. So he says, so Monday when the trades contact you about John dropping out, it can be, Chivalta's dropped out, Freddie Fields is now Sowing Paramount,

who's a producer, the project that's collapsed, or we could say, we understand why John can't do this at this time. We're moving forward with Richard Gear. And I know you want John

for Urban Cowboy and basically does this. This is Schrader's version. I'm not positive, it's true, but basically he does chess with Barry Diller and gets it so he can get gear and pushes Trowald to the urban cowboy.

Okay. I might believe it. I don't know. This is like you flying solo on bringing Zach Lowe to Gratlin. You're just like, I got this. Like it's not who you think it's going to be. It's going to be my guy. My guy's going to do it.

The number's going to work. We're going to have success. Trust me on this. Worked out. Very similar. Took over a year to bring Zach Lowe to Grantland. It should have happened. Zach always blogs in Armani suits, right?

Yeah, and a great style. And who gives a lot of sexual pleasure to lots of people who've never experienced an orgasm. Apex Mountain. Richard Gear. I think it's officer and a gentleman. Oh. Yeah.

I think you're right. Yeah. It's not this. It's not this. No. Could you make a case for 1990 with both pretty woman and internal affairs? You could. Is that or?

I think he comes out Officer and Gentleman, and this is one of the five biggest. leading actors we have and then he squanders it. He's not nominated for that though, right? Louis Gosser Jr. wins. I think Deborah Winger was nominated. Gears should have been nominated.

I think that was a tough Oscar year. It was my memory. 82, I think, was pretty brutal. That the Dustin Hoff and Tootsie year. That movie got screenplay, editing, score, song, and didn't get gear. I don't like the way you're looking at me, Mayo. Is that your gossip?

Yeah, I try. Lauren Hutton, Apex Mountain. Probably in the 70s. I don't think it's this movie. Yeah. She was the biggest model in the world. Yeah, she's... Not at once bitten, the Jim Carrey vehicle.

Not once bitten. Okay. Also, in Sean on Sean, I read that Lauren Hutton shouldn't have been in this film. So can't be here. Can't be your apex mountain. CR and CR never got released, but it's 700 pages. Crank on crank. Crank on cranking.

Still cranking, the CR story. Apex Mountain for Jiglows? better use of a jigolo and a movie or TV? Was Todd Parker a jigolo? I feel like he... I mean, he said he hints that he was a dancer. We might have talked about this

during the four and a half hour pod that I blacked out there. None of us can remember that pod, yeah. He said he was at dance club. It was insinuated that dance club might have male customers, not female. Yeah. Why don't you introduce it to my lap? Yeah. Todd Parker.

I have this as a... for Jigalos unless you want to go with the Showtime reality show Jigalos. Never seen a head series, unfortunately. Shrader? Probably. Probably. I think he did more celebrated things, but this is probably his biggest hit. So, yeah. Blondie? This song's only two minutes, 15 seconds. I feel like Heart of Glass is probably a bigger hit than the Sly. Am I crazy? I would say their apex is probably a year earlier than this.

So Heart of Glass went to number one. This is called Data. Heart of Glass went to number one on February 17th, 1979. Yeah. And it was number one for 20. It was on the charts for 21 weeks. But then that means it basically bleeds right into when this is number one on the charts. Call Me debuts on February 16th, 1980.

It goes to number one for six weeks. Yeah. And it charts for 25 weeks. But. The song that is on the charts the longest of theirs comes nine months later, and it's a cover of the tide is high. Interesting. Nine months is still, so then the answer is yes for this general period. Yeah, and Rapture also is a year after that, a few months after that, and it goes to number one as well for two weeks.

So here's the... Four number one hit singles. That's amazing. Here's the actual answer. Their apex is actually a few months earlier in October when they're on Serent Live with Steve Martin. on the first episode of the fifth season when the show was still massive right after Belushi and Akroy left

and they have Calm Me Coming and just things are happening I would say I'd vote for that I think my favorite song is one way or another which never even once in number one they were sick band great band Bill Duke no

Gravity Boots yes Incredible gravity boots moment in this She's never Gravity Boots have never been I don't know what happened in gravity boots. Somebody must have broken their neck and then that was it. Somebody got

sued. It does seem perilous. Yeah. I would never do that. Never. Malibu is a movie location. I was trying to think what's done it better. This is way up there. Is enough of the movie set there, though? It's not. So I think there's

another answer, but I don't know the answer to that. I can't think of a Malibu movie at the moment. There's some good ones. Well, Neil's Niels places in Malibu and heat. That's true. When Kilmer goes,

Sunrises and sets for me, man. I'd do like in the Bigelboski when he's like, stay out of Malibu, deadbeat. The Tangerine Dream Marauder Erie music era? I think it peaks with Risky Business in 83. I'm good with that. It's such an important piece.

I don't know how we haven't done risky business yet. Shocking. Probe? Apex Mountain for probe For probes or for probe? Probe The bar probe Probe wasn't a real bar, right?

This wasn't a real bar, right? This wasn't a real bar. Should we go there tonight? Yeah. Okay. Best Best racehorse name. Wait, we can't get out of Apex Mountain

without doing side dick. Is this Apex Mountain for side dick? Definitely not. Gone Girl. He needed some self-flicking. It's Affleck and Gone Girl. gone girl, I think. That's my pick as well.

Affleck knew. He fluffed himself. Yep. Best racehorse name. I think he acquitted himself very well. Oh, and Armani, we should mention. Hmm. This could be possible Apex Mountain for Armani.

It becomes the biggest. It's the springboard for sure, right? Yeah, maybe the 90s, sometime in the 90s was. Best Racehorse name. American Jiglo would be an amazing racehorse name. And here comes American Jiglo. I don't know if anyone do that. I'm going with just one fuck.

Just one fuck is good. That's amazing. Just one. What about side dick? Side dick? I have for a best racehorse name, Julian K. Would be an amazing horse name. Really good.

This is my horse, Julian K. I just think when you put him out the stud, you know? Let's go, Julie. What do you got for picking a niche on? Other than the last 15 minutes of the movie. So Lauren Hutton's character, obviously, is intoxicated with Julian, right? She loves that she's able to have sexual pleasure for, I guess, the first time in her life

and she becomes obsessed with him. She starts basically following him around and pursuing him in an obsessive way. We have no understanding, though, of, like, what emotional feelings she has for him. And she follows him to the ends of a murder charge. And I just never really buy love. And the movie is about love.

There's not that one scene where they connect in some sort of lying in bed at 3 in the morning. It's like there's one scene missing. And Ebert identifies us in his review, and I think he's right. There's something missing in the movie that it's like take out those second and third and fourth to last scenes. And 20 minutes before that, give us a moment between them in which you can see the glimmer of gear and you can see Michelle Stratton have like emotional recognition. Because otherwise it's just like she's just dick crazy.

And that's not, I don't think that's enough. They could have thrown in a really good like Malibu eating scene. They're laughing about something. Yeah, having some rosé. Oh, I thought when you said Malibu eating a scene, you meant to. another three-hour pursuit of the orgasm. That can be in your sequel.

Sean didn't recoil like I thought he would. No, you don't have been good going to a Laker game. We could have got a little cream and magic, $7,9.80? Yeah. To them, Julie. Was nobody open at that time, you know? Just get some tuna tartar. Julian talking about Kareem Skyhook,

and she's like, I'm in on this guy. You think he was a big Laker guy? I think he'd better know a couple games. Yeah, yeah. That would have, like, to make this the most perfect LA movie ever, the Lakers had to be involved. Would have been great to see him and A.C. Green talk about how, you know, one really knows a lot about sex. The other really doesn't know too much about sex. That should have been the sequel.

Yeah, he and, uh, what was the pimps name? Leon? Leon. He and Leon should have sat court side for like a magic, for a Lakers Clipper game. What are you insinuating about Laker fans? That there are a lot of pimps sitting courtside? Maybe. Maybe you got a connection from somebody of.

probe. The manager of probe got liquor tickets. Any other pick of nits for you? What do you got? Oh yeah. Okay. A couple. The balcony murder. Can we talk about this for a minute? How do we not talk about it? It's really bad. It's terrible. Yeah. My bad for not bringing this up sooner. The entire thing, but then the lawyer saying at the end, the maids saw you trying to save Leon so the police are only pressing the rhyme in case. Yeah, that's tough. He charges across the room and knocks him over the edge of the balcony. Did she not see that part? This is outright murder. Also, the idea that he's trying to save him while dangling him over the edge is, that's quite an interpretation of those events. Absolutely remarkable. Great one. Who keeps, I mean, if anyone has any personal stories they'd like to

share, it's a safe space, just the four of us in this room. Who keeps their handcuffs, paddles, and dildos in the filing cabinet in the study? That's where those are. found. Not this guy. That's just how Ryman does. Isn't that what nightstands are for? That's what Ryman's all about. I'm just throwing that out there. That's not what nightstands are for. I have some picking nits with just this lady getting

murdered and the husband not being more of a suspect. Did Ryman do it? Like did he, was he, did he push the other gigolo to kill her? I think Ryman and Leon probably combine. Well, they're covering it. Yeah. Leone's covering it.

up because of the new the boy so yeah the boy and and rhyman in some combination but we know ryan was vicious right that he was violent into sadomasochistic stuff yes absolutely but did he was he actually the one who pushed it or did he not intervene because as things are getting that's something we don't really know right that was my interpretation what was your nitpick with the car okay putting all the jewels and stuff underneath and then he drives around with them like a dumbass for 10 this thank you so that's one it's a it's a it's a it's a fucking dumb tip tip You simply must... Where does he eventually find them?

Underneath the car, the undercarriage of the car. You simply must check there first before you rip open the door of your car. He pulls off the interior of the driver's seat car in a frantic rage before checking the most obvious place to look. And yes, driving around with him. Obviously, he wants to take them to Leon to dramatically throw them at him.

But when the cops pull by him, a lot of stuff, too, with that stretch where he's in pursuit, like one of the worst parking jobs I've ever seen. They're tough. The police are after you, man. Don't give them an easy way in. Don't get caught because you didn't do your taxes right, you know?

You got to be buttoned up. He's got two coats at the Beverly Hills Hotel, but he doesn't have a locker to put the jewels in. He's a little frantic at this point. I think he's a little frantic. But that's why we need cocaine. In this part of the movie, we need cocaine. Need some cocaine to explain some of the decisions.

Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. We have the prestige TV. and I feel like that it should have been better. The pieces were there and they fucked it up. But you nailed it on the sequel. I think that would have been interesting. Sequel, mid-80s, wealthy L.A., he's running his own little, yeah.

Or maybe it's that he has fallen behind and he needs to get back in the game. Oh, I like those. You know, so he's like... I love back in the game. He's like training to work out to get his body back. He's shopping for new clothes. he's adapting to the way that the

sexual sexual mores have changed over time. I think that I think getting back in the game. American Jigolo, Colin, getting back in the game, that's money. Let's do it. That was the mistake of staying alive. That was the mistake when they Ted Tony Manor is like, yeah, he wants to be a dancer on Broadway now. It's like, no, he's not back in the game.

No. Come on. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trail, Catherine Hines, Steve Bouchemy, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsher, Philip Baker Hall. Give me Philip Baker Hall as the senator. I'm good to go. stuff. Great shout. I like it. Well, Sam Jackson as Bouchemmy. I mean, as Leon, rather.

Would have been early, but I think he could have done it. I really like Bill Duke, though. Wayne Jenkins instead of Detective Sunday? Yeah, maybe. Now we found these paddles and these dildos in the filing cabinet in your office. Who keeps these things in a study? Take us back to Baltimore, please. I was working with a super fucking jiggle. Super jiggleo.

Just want to ask her who gets it. Schrader. Paul. Yeah. Fosho. Or, no chance of being nominated for this movie, right? I don't think so. I'll tell you what is Scarfiatty, who sort of designed the movie

and he worked on the conformist and went on to be this very famous figure in movies, was not in the union. Union. So he couldn't be the production designer or art director of this movie. He probably wins. So he has like a visual consultant title. But if he was, I think he would have been nominated and recognized if he were a little bit more in the, in the fabric of Hollywood at this time.

81 Oscars. Redford wins for ordinary people. Scorsese Raging Bowl. David Lynch elephant man. Richard Rush, the stuntman and Polanski for Tess. I feel like Schrader could have edge one of those out. Maybe the last 15 minutes heard him. Yeah, I mean, what?

He was nominated for first reformed. I think that's his first Oscar nomination. I love that. Any in answerable questions for you guys? What's the hydration plan and what are the tongue exercises for the three-hour pleasure pursuit there? How many breaks are you building in? Probably some your neck could get.

Absolutely. Yeah, like you definitely have to do some neck crints, move some stress. But that's the thing about Julian. He's a machine. He's the ultimate mechanic. Yeah. He's not going to go all Larry David.

Like, I've got the neck cramp. By the way, three hours is a long time. That's like a football game. Yeah. With the halftime? Yeah, that's exactly. Like, are there commercial timeouts? Yeah.

Is there a half time? Three hours for anything's a long time. That's like a car ride is a long time. John would have to pee twice on the car ride for three hours. I have to pee so bad right now. We're almost done. double feature choice with this movie. What do you got, Mallory? I think it's this and pretty woman.

Wow. That's fun. You know, flipping the rolls, flipping which position he's in, very different tones. What about you? I mean, they're both about selling sex, too. Yeah, exactly. I think it's got to be hardcore. I thought hardcore, too. You know, you start with the horror and then you lead into the sex and the glamour. Couldn't agree more.

I like the idea of gear in the... Different gears. Yeah. Different gears. Yeah. That's good. He's the seller and then he's the buyer. A Richard Gear double feature.

The Andy and Red Zawatnao Award for what happened the next day. How long is he with Lauren Hutton? Mere hours. He goes back to the mini blinds, standing in the nude, opens them, thinks he's going to look out on a glimmer of sunlight, breathe in the fresh air of a free man. And then the police pull up and they say, actually, we talked to the maid again. And she said that you did, in fact, murderly. By pushing him off the ballot, you have to go back to jail. The maid is for Cantor's story.

Yeah, that's the next day. They go back to Malibu, and later that night he realizes where I really want to be is probe. And I got to get back to probe. And I got to investigate my true sexuality. Why do you keep going to probe? What about Senator Stratton's campaign the next day? Doesn't go great. And what happens to his fossil fuel thing?

Maybe that's why we are where we are right now. No, he's the president. Within eight years, he's the president. That guy was, he was cunning. Get a fucking handle on your wife, dude. It's tough. Yeah, let her live. It's not ideal.

Bad choice. Don't out kick your coverage when you're running for president. You want a happy to be there, first lady. You don't want Lauren Hutton. I think he needed to be a bigger part of the movie. The senator? Yeah, have like a more meaningful impact on the story. It's kind of like a hangover effect.

Oh, is he going to be a part of this frame? You see a lot of those kinds of characters in a lot of movies in the 70s and a lot of the conspiracy thrillers and stuff. So you think that he should play a bigger part. but he's just an accessory. Like he's just a, he's a side. He needs to just make more important. Yeah, I wanted him to be an accessory to murder. No?

I don't know. Rewrite it, write your sequel. I forgot for Apex Mountain. I forgot to mention Kay Callan again because this was not her Apex Mountain. It was fast break with Gabe Kaplan. Nice. She's the teacher who is having trouble with D.C. D.C. And it's going to fail him out.

Gabe Kaplan talks about it. And then by the end of the, end of the fast break, huge supporter of the program, Cadwallader's here's one of my favorite things about Kate Callan. So a lot of characters, you know, when they're in movies, they often are like, Steve Jones or, you know, Roger Stevenson.

She played Mrs. Bird, Miss Tidwell, Mrs. Powell, Mrs. Pistin, Mrs. Hallstrom, Miss Tannenbaum. She was always like an older lady who was not allowed to have a first name. Right. In all the scripts. Or initials or like a full first name

in real life. That's right. We'll just give you a letter. That's it. A real name is Catherine. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie is the easiest dancer of all time? I want the car. I want the car. Okay.

I'm going with the ankle. The gravity boots? That would be called with the Game Orne Gravity Brits? That whole kit. You know, the free weights, the gravity boots, the little tiny gray shorts that he's wearing in that whole scene, remarkable stuff. That's my pick. The suits, sir. Those suits are not in style anymore, and I also could not pull them off, but still, those are some nice suits.

It's fun to have, like, 10 in the seats. Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. It don't matter how much, Julie. The other side will always pay more. Love it. Great life lesson. Love it. I'm going with Julian saying, take your pleasure when you can.

But I do know a horror when I see one. Who won the movie? Oh, boy. I think it's gear. I think it's gear, too. I think it's gear. I hate saying it's not Schrader, but it's gear. It's just a long-time seminal performance by him.

It launched him into superstardom. Yeah, it vaulted him. I think Maroder did very well by this. I think, Armani obviously, did very well. You can think about all the ways it could have gone wrong with the casting. Like, three years later, this could have been Tom Cruise as American jiglo. I think, so by this point, gear has already been, and we didn't mention this, the star of a John

Schlesinger movie, Yanks, and the star of a Terrence Malick movie Days of Heaven, both good movies, Days of Heaven's kind of a legendary movie.

But they're not big hits and they're not movie. He would have probably been like a successful actor. He would have been a leading man in smaller movies. But this one, this is a lot of...

It allows him to be, oh, we didn't get your Walt to Vroftor and the gentleman, let's go get Richard Gehr and feel good about it. Yeah. He's an A-minus movie star in terms of like the level that he's at, which is pretty good.

So what are we calling this month? It's a sleek, sleazy sex noir early 80s month? You already cut me out of the repeaters November? There's four movies that we're doing. This was the first one. Are you sure you don't want to just be like orgasmic November? Early 80s, orgasmic November? That would have been really.

Well, this kicks off in October, right? It's October 31st. No, it's technically November 1st. All four movies within 15 months of each other. Noddy November? If you're smart, you could probably guess what the four movies are. Craig, your thoughts on American Gigolo. Bill didn't like Noddy November.

Notty November's good. Such a visually satisfying movie, this movie, Los Angeles. It is so sleek and sexy. What a way to kick off the month. I mean, I love any movie about L.A., especially like 60s, 70s, 80s, L.A. I just could watch literally anything about it for hour. I wish this movie was 10 hours long. The close, I disagree with you.

I think his clothes in this movie are back right now. They'll work now. Yeah. I think they are too. It's like neutral tones. They're well-fitted, but not too well-fitted. They're like a little bag to them. The wide-leg pant is back.

I wish I could have every single thing he's wearing and wear it right now. What's your favorite outfit? The light blue, silvery suit that he has is like light-up. Really nice. I like what he's wearing in the first scene in the bar with Hutton. I love the jacket he has on when he's getting the shoe shine. He's a tight collar. Also, he's never not in a suit.

I love like even his life. leisure wear is like a collared everything has a button at least. Yeah. Like even when he's like at home, he's like just has no undershirt, but he's still wearing some like classy long sleeve button up thing. Yeah. That was amazing. Literally my nightmare. Why? Because I just want to be comfortable

and in elastic waistbands all the time. I'm going the other way with that. I remember your hottest take. I don't know if that came out. But I think we look classy all the time. I think that's an awesome. I used to be that guy. But what's his workout? What is the

work out with the gravity boots. What was he doing? He was going... He's basically doing upside-down sit-ups. But he wasn't doing a sit-up. His head was going backwards and his arms are going the other way. He was... He was... Yes, to be fair, he's learning Swedish at the same time. So he is multi-sassassas. He's five or six languages, you know. Just show him going on a jog. I don't know. I feel like he looked great, but...

It seemed like it was about body control. They wanted to get him naked with tight underwear and kind of oozed that out. It was a smart, creative decision. I will say this. My mom... One of the only moments were things ooze out in the movie. Not enough oozing out in the movie. I did kind of just think that the script of this movie was not that great.

Like the movie itself is great. Just settle down. Like the dialogue itself when you kind of just listen to the two of them talk, it's not that compelling. The Hutton Gear stuff could be better. I agree with that. I agree, but I also think it's purposeful. These are pretty vapid, uneducated people.

Well, I very repressed people who have no idea how to communicate about what they're actually looking for. True. But I almost feel like the stories matter so little. in this movie. It's just kind of like the sense of it. You could have pitched this movie and then they wrote the script. They're like gear, jigolo, sex, Malibu, suits. And they're like, done. His origin story how he came up with the idea is really funny where he's

like, I was in a classroom and I was talking to people and I was saying like, there are a lot of jobs in the world. You know, maybe you're an accountant. Maybe you work on a construction site. Maybe you're a jigolo. And then he's like, American Gigolo. That's an idea for a movie. Which is such a weird way to come up with it. But that is probably partially why it feels like

like we said, it's a style exercise and like a mood spiritual story It's a plot story. It was pitched before it was written. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if we had done LA month, this would have been one of the four LA movies. Oh, that's a good month. Don't trample on that. That's a good idea.

We can still do it. But I'm just saying, like, this would have been, we're like, oh, it should be an LA month. And this is easily, it has to be in there. He uses LA as a character, which you know I love. You know I love when they use cities as characters. It's great. I feel like when they say the name in the movie,

in when they use the city as a character. PCH still not overrated. No. No. For how famous it is, it delivers. It's beautiful. Yeah. Absolutely elite.

Properly rated. Craig Coralbeck produced this podcast. Thank you, Sean Fantasy, Malie Rubin. We'll be back next week. Should I say the movie next week? You already did. Cruising? Yeah.

Yeah, cruising next week. Came out a week after this one. Sex, neo-noirre, sleazy, sleek. Is cruising on streaming? Where can people watch that? Do you know? All of these movies are on streaming. I think America Jiglo

Paramount Plus Paramount Plus Cruising's on one of them Some of them Yeah From still cranking to still cruising Yeah CR's coming back for cruising

So Yeah CR's back for cruising It's finally happening I was gonna watch it on an airplane When we were gonna do it this summer And I started watching it on the airplane And then I was like Wait a second I can't do this

As soon as a guy's on top of the other guy With the knife You gotta You should make a ranking Of the worst movies to watch I think cruising's in the mix. There's no question. What's that movie that came out, that horror movie, the sequel that I mailed you today?

Oh, Terrifier 2. Terrifier 2 is probably you don't want to throw that one on. I would say barbarian would be great. Lim to limb, yeah. Barbarian's probably not awesome. It's a long list. Basic instinct would be tough. But I think some people would respect it.

Yeah. You don't want anything where there's just a really, really aggressive sex scene. But when you see Mal on a plane, you almost expect her to be watching. Yeah, she's against her. It's like, oh, she's in character. All right, we will see you. We'll set next week.