The Rewatchables - ‘Bad Boys’ (1983) With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are the new barn bosses of the Rainford Juvenile Correctional Facility after revisiting the 1983 crime drama ‘Bad Boys,’ starring Sean Penn, Esai Morales, Eric Gurry, and Clancy Brown. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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talking Oscars this week. What an exciting Oscars. The same movie won every single fucking word. Jesus Christ. What happened in the days of the Oscars when different things won? Come on. Why didn't James Gumb win for Silence of the Lambs

when Silence of Lames was cleaning up? Why didn't we give him an honorary Oscar now? I know. Give James'Oximate. Give Silence of Lames more Oscars. My name is Bill Simmons. This is the rewatchables. Horowitz.

Bad Boys is next. In their world, every dream is a dare. They're going to have to use that. They want a hero, a king, a champion. He wants a new life. I have a stream that you went away.

So did I. With you. The odds are there. Do your time clean and you walk. The choice is his. Sean Penn. Bad Boys rated R. All right.

So I don't know if this is a one for us or not, because this is my single favorite Sean Penn movie. On the other hand, some people would say, this is a one for us. This is a movie called Bad Boys that came out in 1983. Twelve years later, Will Smith and Martin Lawrence came out in a movie called Bad Boys. It became the go-to bad boys. It made way more money. It led to a Bad Boys sequel.

And yet this little movie that Sean Penn made, it was his third movie. And the first one where he's really on the front of the poster. And to me, a teenager at the time, cemented Sean Penn for me. as a guy. And you have this movie and you have risky business same year with Cruz. And then you had Timothy Hutton with ordinary people a couple years before who was also in Taps. And it felt like we had this generation of dudes with Matt Dillon and a couple other people, this generation that was coming. And Sean Penn was at the forefront. And it was because of this movie, which now 40 years later, we're almost at the anniversary point. I think it's this month. Why did this movie fade a little bit,

Chris Ryan? What happened? Because you watched it. I made you watch it this week. You had seen him you loved it. And I think you had the same reaction that I've had for the last 20 years. Like, what happened to this movie? Where did it go? Where is this movie bit? So I want to tell you up top

that if we ever have to do a movie where we say the name of the movie in the title and then in parentheses we're going to have to say, no, not that one. Then it's one for us. Fair. Or we have to put the year of the movie in the title. That's another word.

Yeah, fair. Why did this movie fade. Well, it's a grimy watch, man. I think it's not, it doesn't have like the kind of charm and sort of brightness that risky business does. The music isn't like pop 80s early. Like, it's got some music, but it's like Ashford and Simpson and T-Connection and stuff playing on boomboxes. And it is a gritty, dark movie, man. Like, there's a bunch of parts of this movie where you're like, there is no fucking way this would be in a film today. I mean, you can make some exceptions, but for the most part, like everything you see in this film, and like, this kind of movie, like, is like,

DNA-wise, this is the predator meme for you and me where our hands meet. You know, it's like, you've got a prison movie, a coming of age movie. It's, like, all coming together. And it's directed by this guy Rick Rosenthal, who worked with John Carpenter and did Halloween too and brings the movie up a notch, I think filmmaking-wise, that if you had just done this as like a made-for-TV movie, and it was about bad kids getting in trouble and going through the reform system, it could have been a piece of crap, but the performances in the direction really make this, they really make this pop. I'm glad you brought up that made for TV thing because this really was like an after school special on steroids, HGH, and fentanyl, basically. This was the type of thing we were seeing

a lot. Back in the day, ABC used to run these after school specials and they were always stuff like, uh-oh, this guy tried marijuana and his life fell apart. And they were big things that a lot of people in our generation watched and they were on in prime spots on TV, this was the over-the-top version of it. I think when I saw this, I think I was 14. And I think sometimes the movies you see when you're 13 or 14 become like the movies for you. Like that. That's why 48 hours is a movie for me and the first two Halloween's and things like that. This one, I just watched over and over again. And I'm not really positively sure why. Because in a lot of ways, it's a sports movie, as crazy as that sounds.

It's heading toward the showdown between Sean Penn's character and SI Morales' character. It's during the Rocky era. So it's in that kind of sports movie underdog era. But it's so not a sports movie. I think what I love the most, though, other than the Sean Penn performance, which we'll get into, was it brought me into this juvie world. And it really laid out... so many things.

Like I really wonder, like, is this the forerunner for Oz and shit like that? It's, there's a hierarchy. There's people who have different jobs. There's people handing out duties. You can kind of come at the main guy, almost like the NBA. It's like, I'm going to come at Janus. And then you have the guards and they're, they both care about the kids, but they're also really looking the other way.

You have kids that basically can't read. You have kids that when they're about to leave, you know that they have no chance. Like Tweety leaves an hour. plus in the movie, and you know he's going to immediately go back to his old life, and he does, and he dies. And I think being in that world for me, this teenage kid who had never seen anything like it, it was the first time. I was like, oh, my God, what is this?

And there's been other stuff since, but this was the first for me. I think that you're tapping into two things. One, there's a Lord of the Flies quality to these boys, essentially, like, creating their own society in a jail. So there's, like, that kind of timeless story. And then there's a movie that usually comes out right around, you're located like 13, 14, 15. So for me, it was more basketball

diaries, but where it's like angry young men. And I think teenage boys, when they see that on screen, locate, like, they're like, that's my story. Like that, maybe I'm not Leonardo DiCaprio or I'm not showing Penn or whatever. But there's something about this movie

that I think probably speaks to the inarticulable kind of rage that young boys feel in a really, really, really provocative way. And then you add on top of that, the almost like the fantasy element, and they're reading Jack London in the movie, but it has a kind of like timeless boys' adventure story,

even though it's essentially also a Sydney Lumet movie. Right. Well, and then you have Sean Penn, who I was texting with Wesley Morris last night. I was telling him we were doing this. He was all excited. I don't think we have, at least an American actor today, who could play this part,

who's under the age of 27. And I think if you go through the last 40, 45 years, I think you'd be hard pressed to find two or three other actors who could have done this in their early 20s or however old exactly Sean Penn was in this thing. To me, Sean Penn, he's won two Oscars. He went on to become at least one of the more decorated actors

of the last 40 years that we've had. He's had more critical success than Cruz did, even though they were rivals. Cruz has had more commercial success. To me, this is all the people. pieces of Sean Penn, except like the sense of humor piece, which he gets off in fast times a year earlier. But there's something, he's the coolest guy in the room. You believe that he could beat somebody in a fight. He's always seeing the chessboard and figuring out, you know,

it just kind of had to read the room and how to see the future. And then there's a darkness to him that this movie taps into. And I think, I don't know, you think of all the great Sean, you're a huge at-close-range guy. And there's been some other ones over there. And there's been some other ones over the years. But for me, this is like probably my favorite Sean Penn movie. Yeah. So, Sean Penn, I think, does two kinds of movies. One where it's very self-consciously, like the dead man walking, like, oh, this is going to be a great Sean Penn performance clear out. Yeah. I like it when Sean Penn plays within the flow of the offense. My favorite Sean Penn's state of grace, Carlito's Way, at close range, bad boys, fast times. Like, he's in a movie,

but there is nobody better in the fucking world at being in this movie. And he's so, much better than he has any right to be. Like, State of Grace is a really, really good movie. I hope we do it on rewatchables one day. But, like, when you see him in State of Grace where he's just basically doing the undercover cop who's being pushed too far, there's hundreds of people who have tried that.

But Sean Penn lives it. And that's the thing about Mick and bad boys is, like, he's not doing really, like, self-conscious actor stuff. You really believe that this kid's life has spun out of control, and now he has found himself in the worst place in the world. And you can kind of get this sense.

He's such a physical actor in this movie, which is what I love. Like he doesn't talk very much at all in bad boys. It's mostly him walking, looking, listening, and fighting. And so it's almost like an- Absorbing. But it's almost an action movie performance. Yeah.

He's, there's two scenes that I just feel like, I don't know, it's such a short list. But that opening scene when we see him, and he beats the shit out of this poor guy who's trying to save this lady's purse, right? So you see that and you're like, all right, this guy's a fucking scumbag. I'm not going to root for him.

Within an hour you're rooting for him. See if that. I don't know how he pulls, how he threads that needle. But the perfect Sean Penn scene for me in this movie is after he beats up Viking and Tweety, which is one of the great action scenes of the 80s. It's so good.

It's just, it's crazy that that's not like a staple go-to, always-mentioned scene. But he comes out of the shower and Horowitz is in there. Oh, and Horowitz is like you're the man now. What are you talking about? You're the new barn boss, O'Brien. Says who? Hey, it is what it is.

Like that. What are you afraid of anything? You're not afraid of anything. I mean, you're the one thing. Hey, after what, you did to fight you get cleaning, man. You're it. Hey, schmuck. What? Think of it as a present. Some present.

Barn boss gets 40% of the cigarette action. You forgot. Barn boss gets to give out the work assignments and take his own. Barn boss gets time off his sentence if he stays cool and keeps the Neanderth falls in line. You didn't know that, did you? Think you can handle it? He's like, you're the man now. What are you going to do?

And he's like, I don't need that stuff. And Horowitz says, no, no, you don't understand. Barn boss, they get to decide the work duties. They get a cut of the cigarettes. And you can see Sean Penn's wheels turning, but he doesn't do anything. It's just really good acting where he's absorbing it. Then the next scene you see him, he's handing out the assignments. And he's like embraced it.

He's like, all right, this is a way for me to have real power. I just, look, he's had a lot of great people, a lot of peers in his generation. But for me, he's the guy who could have played this part. This is Cruz. This is a different movie and it's weird. And like casting what if, spilling it now. Matt Dillon wanted this movie. Matt Dillon was a really, he was probably the biggest under 25 star at the time.

He done my bodyguard by this point. He done my bodyguard. He was filming the outsiders. Like he was kind of the guy out of this generation. He wanted bad boys. And they felt like he was too big of a star. And they wanted somebody that the audience was still discovering, which is why they went to Champaign. But if this is Matt Dillon, I don't, do you think it works with Matt Dillon?

I just think it's a different movie. It's way more kind of popcorny. there's a level of commitment that I think you can see in Sean Penn's performances across the board, sometimes to his detriment. Like sometimes you're like, Sean Penn, man, take a playoff.

You know what I mean? But when you see him sitting in the cafeteria for the first time and he's got cuts all over his face, you're like, did he cut up his face to do this? Like I actually believe like all the Knicks and cuts, all the bruises, all the limps, all the sideways looks, I believe he smokes Salem's. You know, like you know that he just,

walked around and he was like, call me Mick the entire time they were shooting this thing. He broke his ankle. That's why they had to stop production. I mean, like, he's just got a level of like, immersion into parts that even though he also has this movie star quality and Sean Penn is this recognizable name across now 40 years of movie history, like, I think that when you see him, you're seeing somebody disappear into a rule. And that's, that's really cool to see somebody that young, because that's pretty rare. It's pretty rare to see somebody who's like, that good, that young. It's, it's, it's kind of lottery picket-esque, you know what I mean? Where you're like, oh, man, like, this only happens, like, once every 10 or 12 years.

Yeah, he's not smoking the made out of soap cigarettes or whatever, like the fake cigarettes. The ones that are, they aren't harmful and you can keep smoking them and it's okay. He's like, no, no, I'll be smoking the salams. Yeah, the John Hamm, like, tea leaf special. No. Yeah. They're like, but Sean, you'll have to smoke five packs of cigarettes a day if he smoked those. He's like, fine. Just make sure you have enough on the set. He's like, I'm on pack six right now. Right.

You better go get more curtains. One of the reasons I wanted to do this with the great actors or the one notch below actors, like the very, very good actors, whatever you want to say. They all have their kind of a rival movie. And this was clearly it for Champagne. Some people would have said fast times, but in fast times, I had seen taps and I had seen fast times. And I don't know what to make a Champagne after those two movies. I knew I liked him.

But he's so funny in fast times. You just think, oh, is that who he is? He's just like a sense of humor guy, comedy guy. Is that like the direction? Is he going to be, you know, is he going to be like one of the Griswold's kids and the next vacation movie? And then this happens. And it's funny that Cruz Risky Business happened the same year because that was another

arrival movie. For Leo, people would probably say what's eating Gilbert great, but for me it was This Boy's Life, which we've mentioned on pods before. But the arrival movie, I think, is really fun. Like, what's to you? What's Russell Crow's arrival movie? Oh, probably L.A. Confidential, even though he's done ones before that, I think L.A. Confidential was like, this guy's going to be a movie star.

See, I would have gone, what's that crazy movie he made with Denzel? Oh, where is that, it's not ricochet. Is it lawnmower man? Virtuosity? Oh, virtuosity. Yeah, virtuosity, yeah. Right. That was the one where you go.

Man, this guy's really, really going at it with Denzel. Yeah. It's going toe to toe. But, you know, every once in a while, you know, for some of it is easy, like, Shalamey, call me by your name. It's like, this guy's a star. This, this guy's having a career. Julia Roberts, you would have said it was pretty woman, but it was really Mystic Pizza.

Mm-hmm. Where it was the first time we saw her and something like that. Sandra Bullock was that movie, what was that, love potion number nine with Tate Donovan? Yeah. It was like, man, this lady's adorable. I love her, you know. And then so nothing would have surprised me after that. This, for bad boys, it was a higher level of that, I think, for Sean Penn, because

I left this movie thinking he's definitely going to be in my life for a long time. I wasn't thinking about Oscars and shit like that, but it seemed conceivably as an Oscar guy. The other thing that I think is interesting about the performance. We talk about this sometimes with basketball, like guys that are meant for certain errors or guys that could have played in any era, right? Like, Durant just succeeds in any era. It doesn't matter what the style is. He's getting 2080 game.

Put him in 1965. It's happening. Sean Penn is almost like out of the 1940s. You know, he's like a out of like a Cagney movie. Yeah. Or you could say he's out of the 80s. He's out of the 1970s and you could see him acting against like Peter Falk and John Cassavetes.

You know what I mean? Like he has, I think when it's when it's that good and you start getting into that stratosphere of like Brando and and like those kinds of actors and Hoffman and De Niro and Pacino and people are comparing you. There's something in there that you can't teach. And it's like a force of nature thing that's really hard. And you know, when you're talking about identifying pen and knowing like also with risky business and Dylan and my bodyguard, I'm sure that in some ways there is a generation around Chalamee who are also working and doing great stuff. And it's just kind of like not at the forefront of my mind.

But I do think a lot of those people wind up doing TV. And I think a lot of those people wind up doing superhero movies. And this was still a time where I think that you got blooded in these early movies. And Sean Penn makes like three or four really cool crime or crime adjacent movies right around here where it's like Falcon and the Snowman at close range, taps and this. And you're like, oh man, like we have a Pacino. Like this is this dude doing Dog Day and Serpico and Godfather None of those movies are as good as those movies maybe

But you all of a sudden get to feel like an almost generational sense of ownership Like we got our own guy That's pretty cool I don't think that happens that often anymore Yeah he felt like a son of Pacino and De Niro He had a lot of the Of the best qualities of both guys And you're right like

Like maybe Jenna Ortega is that to some people Or Chalame is that to some people where Florence Pugh is. But it's like, I think people work a little bit less and they also do more franchise movies now. Oh, and movies mattered,

I think, a tiny bit more in the 80s just because we had less to do. But he does. He makes the following choices after taps. Fast times, bad boys, racing with the moon,

the Falcon and the Snowman, at close range, and then he marries Madonna somewhere in this. And does Shanghai surprise? Yeah. And does Shanghai Surprise? surprise, which is terrible. But when he marries Madonna, everything goes sideways for about two years there. They become just paparazzi catnip. They have a wedding that, I think they, what did they

paint? Fuck you on the roof because they knew the helicopters were coming over the roof in Malbu. And they just had this crazy high profile thing. And then the off screen stuff became a big part of his career, especially like he had a temper issue. There was some paparazzi stuff. And then the Madonna thing ended pretty quickly. And then we move into the next phase of his career where he's now in a legitimate adult actor and he moves into colors and casualty war and state of grace and Carlito's way and eventually lead into Dead Man Walking winning the honors.

So it's like phase one is this bad boy's phase, which rips off really for the next four years. Then kind of a reset with Madonna and then a really fun adult Sean Penn stage. And then he wins the Oscar and it's like he's been immortalized from that point on. Yeah, it's almost like the same trajectory DiCaprio went on except Titanic was his Madonna. Right. For better and worse, mostly worse. But one of the things I think that I like about Sean Penn's career, but it also makes me mad is that he never just did a one for us. It was always one for him. He was never like just, he never just did his born identity or his mission impossible or his just like really fun big budget action movie where he gets to be Sean Penn and because he didn't want it. And maybe his personality

didn't fit a movie like that. But I think like born identity, he would have been amazing. Well, I think that the issue with him is that he's a little bit too much Daniel Day Lewis and not enough Tom Cruise. And even though he's got Tom Cruise stuff in his bag, I think that he looks at acting as a really sacred profession. And so the idea of him popping up

as one of the guys in Ocean's 11 or playing Daniel Catholic. Right, he never would have done that. Like, can you see him doing Daniel Caffey and yelling at Nicholson? Like, it would have just been a completely different vibe. If he's like, I want the truth! Like, and he's just like got smoke coming out of his fucking ears. Like, it doesn't have the same

thing that... He would have had the drunk scene with Joe Galloway when he was in the rain. He definitely would have been bleeding from some kind. I gave myself a cut on my wrist for the scene. He's just gushy blood. Yeah, so I think he's just a method guy who looks at acting as like when I throw myself into a role. I mean, he's done like a bunch of like kind of actiony thrillers in the later years

of his career. But back then, when it was sort of like, he really would do, the casualties of work choice is like a really interesting one. The character he plays in casualties. of war. He could have done the Michael J. Fox rule, but that wouldn't have been interesting to him. Right. Well, the other pieces, he's part of this whole generation that knew it was a generation, but hadn't earned kind of the chits of being a generation. But now, as the years have passed, it was definitely a generation. There's been some interesting books written about it.

It's not just the people we mentioned, but it's also like the Roblo and Amelia Estevez and Charlie Sheen. You have all of these kids, a lot of them. that either grew up in California or they moved here by the time they were like 17 or 18 like Cruz did. And they all knew each other and they were all competing

for the same roles. Yeah, or they were legacy kids. They're all competing for the same roles during error and there were a lot of awesome parts. You know, like everybody's trying to get the risky business part. I'm sure Bad Boys was a really popular part

for anybody who wanted to, you know, go down that drama road. Yeah. And now that the years has passed, there's some great stuff about this. Like Rob Lowe's book was really entertaining. Some of the Vanity Fair features

about the oral history of the outsiders and shit like that. I'm really fascinated by this area. You also have cocaine is just a beast at this point, right? So cocaine is knocking out a couple of the competitors too. But this was the movie

that put Penn on the map. It was also the first movie for Ali Sheedy who had a really important 80s run. Clancy Brown, who plays Viking in this movie, who becomes just one of the preeminent

that guys of all time. Rewatchable is Hall of Famer, Clancy Brown, yeah. And then our guy Alan Ruck. I know. His first movie. Seven minutes off the bench. 40 years later,

40 years later, the conheads are rooting for him to win president. I know. $5 million budget made $9.2 million. Our guy, Raj, was really high in this movie. Yeah. And also like a tad disappointed.

Well, he was almost like this could have been great. Instead, it's very good. But, like, he didn't like the end, whereas I think you and I are probably pretty into the end. Yeah, I'll read you. Two things he wrote. When the two kids are, it's precisely that moment when the two kids are being set up for an eventual showdown. That Bad Boys begins to unwind.

I feel the complete opposite. The first hour of this movie is so good. It's scary. Penn and Morales and the supporting actors are completely convincing. Bad Boys is the first movie I've seen in which the street gangs are not glamorized, stylized or romanticized. We know we're heading for a big fight. We think we know who will win.

What is this anyway? They've already made Rocky three times. Bad Boys misses its chance at greatness, but it's saying something that this movie had a chance. Then he says, I have a notion it will stand as one of these benchmark movies that will look back for at the talent and introduced. On the basis of their work here,

Penn, Morales, and Rosenthal have important careers ahead of them. And some of the supporting actors may have too. the movie's not a complete success but it's a damn good try. So he's right about Sean Penn. Yeah. He should have been right about S.I. Morales has had like a pretty good career

but I think like because there probably weren't a lot of great parts for him, it's like he had the best career he could. Yeah, I was going to do this for Stephen A. Smith, Hottest take, I'll do this now. S.I. Morales is a fucking awesome actor and they had no parts for the guy. And if you put,

if you just put him in a time machine and put him in 2022, there would be parts galore and he would have been a much bigger deal and he was in the bomba he was in NYPD Blue but he should have been in awesome movies

at least every 18 months and he was just bouncing around because nobody was even thinking about writing parts for people like him well the circle comes around because now he's in the new mission impossible right always love that guy

he's absolutely awesome in this movie and the way he's like an alpha in a different way than Tom Cruise. Sorry, Sean Penn in this movie is perfect. $5 million budget made $9.2 million. It was the music in this movie is by Bill Conti, who also did all the rocky stuff.

And then it was directed by Rosenthal, as you mentioned, who did Halloween 2. He did this movie, and it seemed like he was going to be one of the big directors. And then it just never really kind of worked out for him in the 80s in the same way. Yeah, but I would just say with the Halloween 2 thing, I just think that they've, it's got a little bit of that dystopian spice on it.

Like, there's this really great mix of this, this movie has basically like wild boys, like the wanderers and warriors and West Side Story elements. It's got a little bit of that Philip Dantonie, like Sydney Lumet 70s crime. And then it's got a little bit of carpenter in it. And that's like the thing that takes it to the next level for me. Yeah, I like that. It moves twice, too, because you have that first. half hour. In Chicago. Yeah.

We're in Chicago and we're just in this whole world of young gangs, but it doesn't feel cliche at all. It actually is like, whoa, this feels pretty authentic. Then we go to Juvian. We got to learn that whole world. This pen becomes the king. And then we have this third movie where S.I. Morales shows up and now we're in a totally different movie. All right, we're going to take a break and do the categories. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, Reliable, Internet, means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet,

advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Two Good and Company Coffee Creamers. Howdy Take Your Coffee, Piping Hot, Ice,

strong, frothy. But if you love rich, creamy goodness and delicious flavor in every sip, try two good and company creamers. They're made with farm fresh cream and real milk. Each serving has just three grams of sugar, 40% less than the leading coffee creamers. Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted vanilla, and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. most rewatchable scene. So first one is Mick's big robbery goes wrong when he's going to rob

Morales. Pacco and his partners. Yeah. And Paco is doing a drug deal with the other gang, yeah. There's some fun Rick Roselda. I watched this YouTube clip of him talking about how they filmed this scene with kind of

the cameras walking with the characters, which is pretty ahead of its time. It's very carpenter, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's cool. That whole scene, just Chicago, he was saying how they lit the city up with these yellow lights that they hung across the streets to give it more light because it was so dark there, but it made it this, it gave this weird, goofy feel. That scene's good. Penn goes to, I have walking into Juvie.

The one shot. Yeah. Learning about the point system. You boys read. Read this. Dang activity, 1,000 points, sexual harassment, 1,200, fighting 700 drugs and or alcohol, 1500, running for the fence, 2,000, smoking 400. And then the spit parade of, hey, this is how you get greeted when you come in,

it's just an unbelievable sequence. In the research, it said Sean Penn insisted that everybody actually spit on him. Yeah. And welcome to it, because he's a lunatic. We call this the fresh fish scene on rewostibles. Oh, yeah. But this takes fresh fish to a new level. I think it created fresh fish.

Yeah. Right? Shawshank's 12 years after this. Yeah. Sean Penn's like, yeah, get some real, get some real lugies on the side of my head. Get in there, like hawk it up, man. Yeah. Yeah.

You should have some claim chowder before this. I, uh, you want to do the point system now? Let's do it now. I head up for what stage is the best. Okay. We have the same point system at the ringer. ironically. Smoking minus 400, fighting minus 700,

gang activity minus 1,000, sexual harassment minus 1,200, drugs alcohol minus 1,500, and running for the fence, 2000. I don't know if there's a fantasy league. I'm guessing Viking would have been first pick,

maybe Tweety. Is there an Illinois state penitentiary reference site, like basketball reference, where I can see who put up what points on what day? The monster points this, Yeah, there really should be.

Did Hollinger get into advanced metrics here? Do we have a P.R for the amount of penalty points you put up? The best part about the point system is that they go through it. He's like, can you read? And he's like, read this. And then the camera pans around and every single guy in the whole place is smoking. Right. Yeah.

All of them. Yeah. There's just cartons being thrown around. The soda can beating. Unbelievable. One of the great action scenes. It's just one of the craziest fights. you'll ever see in a movie.

It's so good. I remember the first time I saw it, this movie, I think I was at a sleepover and somebody had a copy of the movie and we all watched it. As an alternative to pornography, it was pre-porned.

I don't know if they had porn yet. When he beats the shit of those guys, it was so fucking exciting. It was like, oh my God! Because it's so violent. And you don't know what he's doing with the soda cans. It's like, what's he doing?

Why is he getting so much soda? It's such like a turn. Craig, you'd never seen this movie before. No. The soda can beating. What was your reaction as that was happening? Like, ingenious move, to be honest. I don't know why people don't beat up other people with soda cans to this day.

It's a great move. It's really invented it. Maybe it'll come back because of the rewatchables. All right, so that's a classic. Plus, I love two-on-one fights where the one guy wins is always a great. movie or TV device. It's just always great to watch. I mentioned earlier the scene where Horowitz tells Mick he's the new barn boss. We see Mick telling the Peretti crew the new deal.

The new cut on cigarettes, yeah. You know it used to be a 60-40 split? It still is. Only now it's 60-40. It used to be a 60-40 split. Well, it still is. only now it's 60

40 uh pretty makes it great what the fuck's going on face I'm definitely gonna have rich Paul try that on you from my league and then I he drops the cleaning stuff off for

Tweety and Viking Tweedy's got his arm in a sling and then he leaves and everybody in the in the place like oh make way for the man there he is

yeah Mick the kid It's just so good. That's such a great stretch. Next one I have is Horowitz attacks Viking in the cafeteria, which leads to Sean Penn with the almost borderline slow motion. Horowitz, because he sees the guards coming. I got Mick and Horowitz escaping.

It's just kind of fun to see anyone escape. I'm just never going to the bathroom and that's happening. Paco comes to juvie, I have written down. and he goes through the spit test too, and then they room him with Viking. I'm going to do this picking it now instead of later. So Paco's coming. Paco is raped Mick's girlfriend after Mick

accidentally killed Paco's brother. And they're like, whoa, this is going to be bad. Oh, we have a situation. Well, we can't get out of it. They have nowhere else to put him. That's fine. I believe that part. But is the next piece of that,

let's put him with Viking? guy who used to run, who used to run this place until Mick beat the shit out of him and we'll now put these two together in the same room. This was a decision made. Bad job by the admin. Bad job by these guys being like, you know, we can move some things around, maybe get Paco with somebody who likes to read, you know, like. Instead, they're like, let's go with Viking. He seems like he's missing, you know, ever since Tweety left got murdered in a car robbery. Who needs a roommate? Yeah. Oh yeah, Viking. Maybe Paco turns things around for Viking. These guys, they find one another, they get super into Jack London.

Oh, my God. Such a bad move. We have Paco and Mick finally meet, and then Mick hands out the duties, and this is when Peretti starts getting into the gambling action. Hey, are the odds on me now, Peretti? Three to two.

Against you. Nothing personal. I think this might have been how I learned about gambling right here, Bad boys, age 14. It's like, what's going on? Three to two odds? Vikings boombox explodes. I have that as a rewatchable scene.

And then Horowitz flipping out in the warden's office, which is great. He really hits the guy with a like a tennis record or golf club. Yeah? Like it really legitimately seems like he hits him. And then obviously the big winner is going to be the fight scene at the end.

The fights. Unless you want to go soda can beating. I go soda can, but the fight scene at the end is legit. Like one of the cool things about sometimes going back and watching these old movies that you haven't seen in a while if you can't remember how I break is like, you could have told me almost anything

when it happened in that fight. You know, Mick could die, Mick could kill him. Like, they make up. Like, that fight is so long and so brutal. And it's mostly like the two of them just like choking each other out. It is sick. Craig, did you think he killed him at the end?

No. They definitely held on that shot. on purpose to make you wonder, but I think the way the storyline was setting up was like Penn was at odds with what he wanted to do. And I think it was setting up nicely that you knew he was going to choose Ali Sheedy and getting out of prison. But they did a good job with it. Yeah. I think you're right. I think soda can beating is the best because if you're coming in at that part, then you immediately get him coming out of detention or solitary or whatever. And then Horowitz giving him the whole, you're the guy now. And then we're,

get that whole stretch. I think that's the right motion. The whole thing with him going up to the RC machine and he gets one soda and you're like, oh, he's done cleaning the shit house. I guess he wants a cold beverage. And he gets another soda. And then he gets another soda and you're like,

man, he's getting a lot of sodas. What's going on here? And then when he goes back and he takes the pillow out of the pillowcase, you're like, oh, shit, somebody's getting private piled. This is amazing. What's age the best? We mentioned the prison hierarchy where you have the barn bosses,

you have the drug guys and people running the gambling, people get in the smokes. I'd never been in this world before. Oz took this world and just went 90 levels beyond it. But this is, I don't remember seeing a movie like this set in juvie or prison where it was like, oh, here's the whole society laid out. And this is why these guys get to give out the duties because even like when Mick, he tries to escape in the ward and talks to him

and he says, you're supposed to be an example here. They look at these barn bosses really to be, you know, the policeman of the whole thing. But it was just interesting. I never knew that stuff before. I did this what's age the best for you.

Mom's drinking whiskey in the bathtub with friend. That was my apex mountain. Tough one. You realize in three seconds that Mick never had a chance. It's like, oh, this is his mom. She's with Cowboy Bob in the bathroom and a bottle of bourbon.

With a bottle of J&B. I love the bald black muscular teacher guard guy. Yeah, Daniels. He tells. Yeah. He's just, he's so believable. He's got the right level of anger. He does seem like he cares.

And he also seems like he would clear house and beat the shit out of anybody. He's just like really good casting. We'll get to him later in a couple other categories. Vikings, uh, blonde permafrow. A.K. the Sigma. This was a peak for that exact look.

Yeah. Right here. 1982, 1983. This is when it went to a whole other level. Women had this haircut. I have no explanation for it. We've never seen it in 35 years. Guys who did security for Bon Jovi had this haircut. It was just like, it was impossible to look at a guy's hair and be like, I wonder what he does, because he might be a stockbroker or he might be a hell's angel. Yeah, it's just gone.

Hey, what are the odds of me now, Peretti? Three to two against you. How am I not going to love this movie? Lance said this. What stage the best? Illinois State Penitentiary. Oh, man. Wow.

What a location. Yeah, that's my scenes. It's like the fucking Astrodome. Yeah, I got that too. We had that for the Den of Thieves Benihanna Award for a scene still location. Yeah. I mean, no way it exists. anymore. It's almost like looking at those old baseball

stadiums from the late 70s, those concrete circles. But you know, Sean Penn was like, take me in, take me in. Let's shoot it handheld. Sean, can you guys leave me there for me? No, Sean, please, Kit. The point system we mentioned, Young Allen Ruck we mentioned. There's a Halloween

two billboard that Rosenthal. I love when directors call back to their old work. That was fun. Horowitz reading the Tweetyo bit and then the guy going, If I can you want to tell him what I was?

It was like, it was Tweety, you assholes. Yeah. Really good scene. What else you got for? What's Age the best? Oh, in Chicago is the other one. Like, just this early 80s Chicago, which has been in a bunch of movies from this era because it's in my bodyguard, risky business dips into it.

Some of the John Hughes movies jump into it a lot. What else from Chicago in that era? Well, I mean, thief. Thief. Yeah. I mean, there's a, thief. I would love an idea of like you do thief and then you do bad boys and then there's like an extended Chicago crime universe where like Mick becomes the new safecracker. It would be amazing. Oh yeah. He meets James Conn. Blues Brothers is another one that's this era.

And that yeah. So I would say some other what's age the best. God, you know, when you're a kid and you first, you're in your like first two or three years of cursing, there's a moment where you're like, man, I've never felt better than this when I call a guy of first. fuckhead. And Viking going, I'm talking to you, fuckhead. What happened to your face? Hey, fuckhead. What's it to you? Still hits like it's the first time I've heard it.

Yeah, that's a good one. Speaking of Viking, I think we as a society really fell off when it came to nicknames. Viking and Tweety are fucking great. Like, you just immediately are like, Viking and Tweety, huh? I think I'll stay clear of those two.

because that guy's called Viking and if this guy's confident enough to call himself Tweety, I probably want to stay clear of them. And my other one takes the best is honestly Eric Gurrey, who plays Horowitz. He's in author, author with Al Pacino. He's in this and that's pretty much it.

And he makes this movie in a lot of ways. Because if you don't have Horowitz, I think that you lose, like you don't have a narrator character. So to have somebody who's like, hey, you're here. This is how this, place works. And he is so entertaining. And you kind of like, you know, when he first tells

this story of like the crime he committed where he killed three people at a bowling alley because some guys were messing with him. And he's like, it was an explosive. You're like, what the fuck? But then it pays off later with the boombox. So I love the Horowitz character. I think that guy's great in this. And it's weirdly, never really had much of a career after like the early 80s. I had him in our next award, a special one. The Tom Size Our guy Tom Seismore, the action is the Juice Award for the guy who went toe to toe with a major star. Couldn't agree more on Eric Gurry. Horowitz is great. My buddy Jeff Gallo, who I've mentioned a few times in the movie watchables, we love this movie.

Like, this was one of our movies. And we loved Horowitz. And we were always like, what happened to this guy? How is this guy not like Shia LeBuff? When he's like... For whatever for the 80s. You don't feel like talking right now, I understand. But you understand.

I really don't want to fucking muting myself, and I like a little conversation sometimes. He's just like working on the boombox. Yeah. Smoking Winston's. He just, he matches Penn in every scene. And you can tell Penn,

as much as Penn is going to enjoy another human being, kind of enjoys Eric Curry. So I did some research, because I had the same thought. His IMDB just goes cold in the 80s. He quit acting, became a huge investment guy. Of course.

Yeah, he invented like the Palm Island. or something. Yeah. Yeah. In LinkedIn, it says he's the co-founder at Blockolicious LLC. So he's, that's just,

he went into investment banking and stopped acting. It sounds like that guy might have been sweating the SVPs closure over the weekend. He might have been. But we lost a,

I don't know, we lost somebody who I think would have been, at the very least, the Hall of Fame, that guy. We should mention, this is our first pod

we've recorded since our guy, Seismore died, which we, we knew it was coming, but a beloved rewatchables guy. Beloved enough that we gave him a category. So it was good the couple days after the news broke, like all the Seismore love.

I felt like we were surrounded by our people. Have we done heat, saving private Ryan. Do we do true romance yet? Yeah, we did true romance. True romance. What are there are seismic. There's one good Seismore one that we haven't done and I'm blanking on it.

But yeah, Seismore, our guy. the Kid Cutty Pursuiter of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop This is easy for me What do you have? I have whatever song Viking is listening to

Before the Boombox explodes in his face Bair new Bairdoo What is that? I watched that like six times Because he's like He's got the thing up to his head And he's just like

This is pretty good man Pretty good tunes And then boom His sycma hair goes nuts I actually had a different choice. Tweedy leaves Juvie, and he's got the boombox, and he's got all his friends waiting for him in a brown van

that's out of like 17 different 70s and early 80s movies, and it's playing that like superstar, you're a star, and it's got that whole thing. I don't know, I enjoyed that way. What do you do if the day I leave the ringer, you walk me out, you take my Spotify pass back from me, and I've got a boombox and I jump into a brand brown band. And I'm like,

See, lid, asshole. Take care of fuckhead. And I just drive off. The Big Cahooda Burger Word for Best Use of Food and Drink. I'm going booger in the green beans. Yeah, I don't see a lot of actual booger scenes. Like, it really, I don't think that was a stunt burger either.

I think Clancy Brown really dug one out. Greens in general have made a huge comeback over the last 15 years. I think we're all eaten salad as much as possible. But, man, it really turned me off. the spinach watching Horowitz dump all that stuff on Viking. Oh, yeah, and the spinach. That's another good use. Yeah, good greens in this.

Great Shock Order Award. Most cinematic shot. Final scene. Just a wide shot of pen walking back to a cell and then the, the, everybody else just slowly reassembling the stuff and letting the guards out. I don't know. I thought it was effective. I think it's easily the one take of Mick and the young kid getting introduced into

the reform school. So like when they walk in through the door. Oh, the one shot. It pans around, and then it pans around to all the guys, and they're all clapping. Yeah. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. So Mick escapes to go see his girlfriend with reason. She just been victim with terrible sexual assault.

But he gets there. He's there for like 90 seconds. Like, all right, you got to go. Maybe it would have gotten a half hour out of that scene, or maybe not a half hour of movie time, but at least it's just so abrupt he gets there and then they catch him immediately and it's just a weird one. Strangely played

as a narrative device. You could have probably just had Paco coming into prison. You know what I mean? Like you didn't need Mick to have this extra layer of vengeance. But it definitely is, it makes that shower scene

when Paco is like, I'm going to kill you, you killed my brother. And he's like, we both have things that were vengeful. for. So it makes it feel like you've got two trains on the same track right there. Well, when he sees Ali Sheady's face, it's a great moment because he acts that one so well.

It's one of the best Sean Penn moments in the movie. So it does pay off of that. It's just like, it's, you know, don't you call her and be like, meet me at this Denny's? I just escaped. You just go right to her house where they're waiting for you. What's age the worst? Can I go first here? Yeah.

Manual steering. he doesn't really try to move when he sees Spocko's younger brother in front of him. He's just kind of like, oh, this car's not turning. I'm just going to go mow this kid down. He's in Grand Theft Auto. I do remember like in the 80s when my dad would let me

drive his car in like a parking lot, and it would be like you have to basically turn the steering wheel the entire way just to like move it four feet to the right. And I just think we've made like a lot of advances in car technology. And, you know, maybe we avoid a tragic death if you have a Toyota and a Camry.

you know. The kid kind of froze too. Everybody, everybody played that one bad. I had the title has aged the worst only because then we had another bad boys and there's just constant bad boys confusion on cable. Yeah.

Allie Shady's dad in this movie? No, no, no, no. You gotta let me do this later. You want to do this later? This is by Stephen A. Smith hot take. Okay, we'll save that one. Boom boxes? it's just age or worse

like they don't exist anymore people just have their phones they definitely cribbed from a British movie in 1979 called Scum yeah I haven't seen that but I was reading about I hadn't seen it either but

reading some of the stuff somebody did a YouTube video like kind of like a side by side comparison of some of the scenes in the movie Scum and it's the same kind of thing it's like a British juvie place.

It's way more graphic, I think. But at one point, he grabs three balls. They're playing pool. He grabs three of the balls. Put some in a pillowcase. Oh, okay. Beats somebody up. So it's little things like that.

And it's like 97% clear that that whoever made this movie might have seen scum. I love the idea of you sitting at home on a Sunday and Zoe and Ben are like, Dad, you want to spend some time together? And you're like, I can't. I'm watching some YouTube clips of it.

movie called Scum to compare it to a movie called Bad Boys, but not the bad boys you're thinking of. Hold on, and I'm not even on YouTube. I'm on Vimeo. It's Sunday at 1 o'clock. And then my other what's age the worst leads into the Ron Burgundy Flute Award for Best Time for a P-break. The rape scene is really rough. Sucks. Yeah, it's tough.

It's just a brutal couple minutes and it's supposed to be. And, you know, this was kind of the era where they went over the line with this from mid-70s until like maybe like 83, 84 range. Sexual assault. It would have stuff like that in a movie. Yeah, they would go. All the Death Wish movies, you look back at those. And it's like, Jesus, why is this so brutal and so violent? It's just kind of the way things were back then.

But this scene's way too violent. And I think 40 years later. It's also drawn out like a slasher movie where she's on the train. then like she's running away from she thinks she's safe and then and then paco pops up with and you know it's only because those cops show up pretty much that it that it doesn't it's brutal I mean it certainly accomplishes the task of making you want to root against paco because it's about as bad as it gets anyway was there a better title for this movie which is it better if this movie isn't named bad boys well it like you could say oh it's better if this is called

reform school or if this is called you know whatever but like bad boys is actually a pretty cool title for this movie can I give you an alternative yeah sure barn bus but then people think it's like an agriculture movie they think they're watching a movie about farmers

bad boys was a great title and I and this was a good enough and an important enough movie that it kind of makes me mad that the will Smith movie was like yeah bad boys fuck it That other one came out 12 years ago. We'll just take the title.

It's like when L.Denian Thomason decided to be L.T. Like 13 years after L.T. was the best linebacker of all time. And he's like, ah, it's been enough time. Now I'm L.T. It's like, no, it hasn't been enough time, actually. Best quote, I lost my brother.

Oh, you lost with some skin. Great stuff. You have a SAS hottest take award? Do you want to do it? Yeah. let's just talk a little bit, you know, first take has been talking a lot about dads recently with the John Morant stuff. So I want to take this opportunity to talk about, about JC's dad, you know, because I think

this might be the worst dad I've ever seen of all time. At what point do we draw a line? Is it your daughter banging Nick in your house? Is it Mick murdering a child? Is it Mick's crime resulting in your daughter being sexually assaulted? Is Mick breaking out of your daughter? out of prison to see your daughter? Is that not going too far? Why not pack her in a station wagon and take her to Wally World? The second, like, Mick shows up on the scene. You got to get away

from him. You got to be in Wisconsin. It's a big country. I don't know what he was doing for a living where he was like, I got to be in Chicago. I'm sorry. But, like, it was just terrible parenting, as far as Parent Corner goes. It's one of the most egregious parenting performances in the history of good movies. Walking along the Great Lakes with her being like, yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know about this Mick guy. You think? Really?

Yeah, great call. Mine and I did earlier about S. Amarales. So casting what ifs, we mentioned the Matt Dylan thing. Rick Rosenthal said, although I'm crazy about Matt Dylan as an actor, I thought he'd already done the role in my bodyguard. I was also afraid the audience might be conscious of a new movie star where with Penn, they'd only be conscious of Mick.

I think that's true. It's a good instinct. Yeah. What do you have for Ruffalo, Hannah, Rubinick, Partridge overacting a word? They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady! I come in here. I give these things to you.

Give it all you got! Give it all you got! I treated you like a son! You fucking stab me in the heart! Fuck you! Well, the inversion of this, the underacting award, goes to Paco's younger brother.

Right, who's barely alive. Even if he's getting to get by a car. But overacting, I'd probably go with Paco's mom. you know, when he's like, I got to go to revenge. She's just like, you don't think that's not what it makes you a man. That's a great one. Let's take one more break and then we'll do the rest of the acting. Want your kids to learn and play every Sunday for free?

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which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9 or visit zepbound.lily.com. All right, best that guy award, aka the Chris Mokie Award. Just throw Chris Mokie and Bone. I need a ruling. Is Clancy Brown of that guy anymore or did he graduate?

I feel like he graduated. Well, you know, he went on, he's had such, I think Reni Santoni gets it in this movie. I have him as well. Yeah, so I think Clancy Brown is almost too big. Most people know Reni Santoni is Poppy from Seinfeld and not Reni Santoni, which makes him an even better that guy because he's known by a character he played over his actual name. In my house, he is a special, special place in our hearts because he looks a lot like my wife's

late father. Okay. And it's always, anytime he's been in anything, it's been like, carry your dad's on TV. And it's just been, like, really looks like him. Yeah. And so we've always loved him. And then Poppy from Seinfeld became, I think,

a top 10 Seinfeld character. And he's in Cobra, right? Oh, yeah. You better believe he's in cobra. He's been in a lot of stuff. Yeah, he's good. He's another one that probably would have been in more stuff if they had more parts for people that were white people.

I have a, I have Peretti as like a runner up for Dion Waiters and Tweedy as well. I think they both, great performances. I love Peretti's vibe. Pretty's like, yeah, he's just, I like, how he's a sidekick. I have no real allegiances to anyone. I'm just, I'm just trying to make my book. Recasting couch. So I was thinking about this for 2023.

Who is it? It's nobody, right? Nobody's Mick O'Brien in 2023. I don't think Shalomey could be. up enough. No way. Shawa, man, no way.

The one person that popped into my mind that I don't think, I don't know if we've ever talked about this guy, but this dude, Jack O'Connell did a movie called Start Up a couple years ago

that was set in- I like Jack O'Connell. Yeah, in prison. And he's probably a little old to play Mick at this point, but could definitely do it. So I guess I'll go Jack O'Connell if I was recasting in 2023.

I was, well, I'll save this for another category. Half-ass Center Research. You mentioned, Sean Penn in the escape, in the wood scene. He broke his ankle. They had stopped filming for three months. The idea from this movie came from producer Richard Solo, who told the writer, Richard DeLello.

He was looking for a Jimmy Cagney story set in a modern-day reform school, which is funny because I always felt like Sean Penn easily could have been in the 1930s. Sean Penn is such a lunatic. Not only did he do the thing where everyone had to call a Mick on the set, not only did he probably smoke, I don't know, 10,000 cigarettes. 500 packs of Salem's, yeah. He had really good teeth. He wanted them to get filed down and capped with ugly tops and have a few cracked ones. And his mom threw her body in front of him.

Like, you're not doing that. That's crazy. The photos of the opening credits were the real-life photos of Sean Penn and the other actors. We mentioned how Penn encouraged the actors spit in his face and throw things at him. And apparently, S.I. Morales said, all right, you guys got to use mouthwash and brush your teeth before you do that. A little caveat. So Sean Penn won that one. True or false,

Sean Penn decided to ride with Chicago police for a couple days to see what life was like on the streets. Bill, true, come on. Do you have to ask me twice? True or false? He got roughed up by a Chicago cop who thought he was a street thug. True. Yeah, that's also true.

The movie they're watching when the person gets shoved down the stairs in the wheelchair, all the kids, that was called Kiss of Death in 1947. And then this is, I've seen this movie a million times. know this. There's a Jamie Lee Curtis cameo. Oscar winner, Jamie Lee Curtis is in this. She's walking on the street earlier in the movie, right? Yeah, Paco's crew is about to go to building and you see this lady with long hair and it's Jamie Lee Curtis. Apex Mountain. Would you go young Sean Penn? I still think it's at close range, personally. I think this movie leads

to all the next three years of movies, though. Yeah. It didn't really do that well. It's not like it made a million dollars. I don't know the answer. that one. Rick Rosenthal, who Iber calls out as like this really promising young filmmaker. He's going to be a major hitter, yeah. Yeah, it didn't happen. He said recently, I think I turned down around 20 or 22 films after Bad Boys. The phone rang all the time. The funny thing is at the time, I didn't know I was hot, but after American Dreamer, I knew the difference. So he made this movie called American Dreamer two years later, it bombed. And then that was it. The phone stepped during it. Reni Santone at Seinfeld. Sadistic

Clancy Brown prison characters, still Shawshank. It's funny he's on the other side as the Shawshank, the evil warden, whatever his name, not Hadley. What the fuck was his name in that movie? In Shawshank? Yeah. It wasn't Hadley. Anyway. You have exploding boomboxes for Apex Mountain here? They've never been bigger.

Never been bigger, louder. Eric Curry, definitely. It was Captain Hadley. Asai Morales? it's got to be La Bamba, right? Yeah, like... He's great in La Bamba. Issa Morales, I would probably put...

Yeah, it would be... It would be La Bamba. He had a nice NYPD Blue Run, too. The Sigma Permafro, I still think it's Sigma. You think Sigma over Viking? Yeah. Sigma had that thing for like five years. Even Larry Bird tried to take it.

It was always the Sigma. Bougar and the Green Beans. I think this is Apex Mountain. What about R.C. Cola. Oh, definitely. And R.C. Cola machines. Because TAB really takes over and back to the future, right? Yeah.

But R.C. Cola has a moment here. Really does. Juvie movies? Yes. I think so, too. Yeah. Best racehorse name. I'll give you soda can beating or Mick O'Brien.

Well, Mick O'Brien sounds like a true. trainer. He works for Bob Baffert. I would go, what do they call Viking and Tweety or Smacks? I like the idea. Here comes smacks. That's a good one. Barn boss? Barn boss is good.

A horse could be a barn boss. That's where you'd be hanging out. I guess it would be stable boss, but still. Pick a knits. So Paco's crew, they're just carrying a suitcase of drugs for five blocks through downtown Chicago. holding.

It was 83. Holding this very conspicuous suitcase. Five blocks. Not buying that one. I like how unambiguous it is that those dudes are doing crimes. It's very escaped from New York where it's just like, yeah, I've got like a cutoff leather jacket and sunglasses and I'm holding a suitcase. I am up to no good.

Yeah. So R.C. Cola machines and products are all over this movie. leading to two picking Nick questions. One, would they really have a soda machine like that in a joint? I just feel like there's so many different ways you could use the cans as weapons. Well, I guess they probably hadn't thought of that until Mick did it. Right. You could use it either, like, put them in a pillcase.

You could cut the cans up and make little razor blades out of it. I just find that hard to believe. And then when Mick actually loads the suitcase, the sodas aren't R.C. colas. They're just like generic sodas. Oh. So you think R.C. Call was like, you can use the machines. But you can't kill somebody with them.

Just not as weapons. They're like, all right, we'll figure it out. They wouldn't have added to Mick's sentence for escaping? Well, I'm not even... Just this one time. So Mick didn't get in trouble for the brutal mugging of the guy in the beginning of the film, right? So he's already like... Yeah, he didn't get...

So it's just vehicular manslaughter and attempted robbery. But then he escapes from Juvie. They catch him, they bring him back, and they're like, this one time. Right. Right. Like nothing? Not three extra months on the sentence? Yeah.

How much does Horowitz get for turning into Bryson DeShambo in the office? A lot of questions there. My one picking net is really just like who thought it was a good idea to show a bunch of juvenile hall residence crime films from the 1940s. Like you guys couldn't show the Brady Bunch or. Bambi or Right, Partridge family. Yeah.

Also, lock the doors at night in the cells. Oh yeah! That's a good one. And we mentioned there wasn't a better place to send Paco Moreno,

question mark. Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. I think Prestige TV would be really interesting for this. It would be hard to cap

how many episodes of this show I would watch. Oz was 20 years ago. Yeah, if I give you a five, five seasons juvenile hall drama. Come on. What are we doing?

Sons of Anarchy was on for like six years, right? Let's go. We've had some great shows and movies dip into this. Like the wire kind of dipped into juvie a little bit. But for the most part, I don't think we've sleepers did it in like a really dark way. But for the most part, we haven't really done a lot of juvie. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trail, Catherine, Hahn, Steve Buscemi, save Jackson, J.T. Welsh or Philip Baker Hall.

I think it's Wayne. when as Mick and when he walks in he goes God damn Horowitz! I didn't know I was rooming with Mr. Wizard! You got that thing playing Billy Squires and blowing up in Viking's face.

Mr. Explosome Master! Just want to ask her who gets at Sean Penn. Yeah. I have some good unanswerable questions. Did bad boys create us? No. Just fundamentally. Did they study?

The prison system exists independent of this little scene film from the early 80s. I think Oz had like a bigger idea there. Yeah. Okay. Why didn't Eric Gurry make it? We found out, but I still, something doesn't add up. He was so charismatic. I don't understand why he couldn't invent more movies.

We'll have to look at his, where his business life took him. How does he not, everyone has a podcast at this point. Why can't I find out the answer on the Eric Gurry financial podcast? So weird that you mentioned this because I have, would you have given Horowitz a pod? He's like a great narrator, man.

Yeah, he really is. What would the plot of bad boys too have been? So this is sort of getting into the Z-Want-Neo territory, but what is Mick doing day one outside of Chicago? Yeah. Given the way things are going, I'm sure Ali Sheedy's dad just gives him a job immediately. I was going to say he goes to her house and there's just no sign of her

and the neighbors are instructed to never tell Mick where they are. Yeah, bad boys too would be Paco's not dead They're out in the real world again And is it Paco's revenge on Mick finally? No, Bill, this is, you're missing the obvious one here What is it? Because we could do this today.

We do Bad Boys 2, Sean Penn and Issaim Morales Are now like the warden and the floor boss. They've come back. Oh, they've teamed up? Yeah, they're like working in the prison to help guys see the error of their ways. If we were doing the prestige TV show, you started with Sean Penn and Issa Morales being back in present. Or one of them gets switched to the other's prison. They're both still prisoners.

Oh, yeah. So now they're in regular job. Now they're the same age they are now, but it's like, oh, we got those guys have some history from 40 years ago. Mayor of Kingstown season three, let's go. Let's just get it going. My next question for you. Would you rather take four weeks in solitary confinement or four months added to your time? It's a really good question.

I just did nine days of relative solitary when I had COVID. Oh, in the Marriott. Yeah. And I was pretty, I was pretty bullish on it. Like, I was like, oh, yeah, I can do this. This is no problem. I got to say day eight or nine, I started to, like, the wall started closing it in a little bit. No internet.

Now, throw in the no internet. Throwing no internet. All I've got is a sink and a cot. I think I'd probably, I think I might add the four months. If you're Viking You got a pretty good life Yeah Yeah

You get all the milk you want Yeah Got a roommate You can hide a knife Under the radiator I'm always amazed In these movies When they can't find the weapons

Right Like Corowitz is working on a boom box Nobody Nobody thinks to like Look in the rooms Of all these dudes I don't think that there was A ton of detective work

Going into what happened To Viking I think that they were like Maybe that's a best possible Outcome This guy's head explodes From a boombox fire.

Yeah, that was another unanswerable question. So what were Vikings injuries? Like, what's the recovery time for him after that? I assume blindness, but they didn't really dwell on it. You think he gets discharged?

He has to serve his time. He's, he's, like, disfigured. I will, Viking, the thing is, like, Viking is the guy in this movie where it was, like, in Little League, where there was, like,

the one kid with the mustache who threw 68 miles per hour. Like, Viking is like that's 32. Yeah. Yeah. That's why he took the extra four months. He was already 25. Best double feature choice with this movie.

I went with Tough Turf with James Spader, which is just a bizarre 1985, L.A. High School Gone Haywire movie that I think fits nicely with this. That's good. You're really like a curator

of these early 80s like coming of age crime movies. I like this. Yeah. Thank you. I would go Warriors. Okay. Kind of like a more fantastical

version of the same. same sort of tribal gang gang culture. Andy and Red Zwan Neal word for what happened the next day. I don't know, six weeks added to mixed sentence two months.

What happens? Well, what happens also with, I guess, is Paco still transferring out and going to the, to the Illinois State Penn? Or is he there like,

we got to leave Paco here? Well, but he's assaulted a guard. Yeah. Right? He's, he's... He's probably doing time

for the next 10, 12 years. I think he goes to that, the Illinois State Penitentiary Astrodome. Yeah. He's in there. That's it. They're done with Paco.

He's gone to the big house. Maybe. You're going away for a long motherfucking time, Paco. You're going to wait a long fucking time, big man. Get him the fuck out of here. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Probably the exploded boombox. Yeah, I'd even take it before exploded.

I would even try and see if I could bring boombox back. A movie used boom buck. I was going to say a carton of Salem's, but I can't really say that I've ever smoked a Salem. Is that menthol? What were the choices? It was Salem, Parliament. Pal malls or Winstons?

Paul malls or Winston's. I used to smoke Winstons a little bit. Nice way. Salem seemed like the move. Coach Finstock Award, Best Life Lesson. Everyone needs a barn boss. At the ringer, our barn boss is Kate Hollowell.

Is that her official title? Yeah, I'm going to start. I'm going to promote her to barn boss. Everything runs through her. The Swedes are going to say when you try to get that going through? It's going to take a couple weeks. We don't have a barn boss. What's your life lesson?

You can never have too many sodas. Great point. Who won the movie? We both that, Sean Penn. All right, producer Craig. He'd never seen this movie. It's been out for 39 years. What do you got for us?

You drop a precocious 13-year-old in a prison and I'm in. I'm just all in. Horowitz won the movie for me. I want a Horowitz spin-off. He had real cost of vibes from Project X, you know? Yeah. Like that kid would have been great in high school if he didn't try to murder people in a bowling alley.

Can you walk us through your experience of watching this movie and wondering why we wanted to do this as a rewatchable to the point when you were finally all in, being like, fuck yeah, these guys did it again. Well, I know when it's a Chris and Bill movie that I'm gonna get into some weird shit. And I know that the box office is usually below 15 million when it's a Chris and Bill movie.

So I'm always excited. Yeah, listen, young men trapped in some kind of contained space with like the tribal elements. I love all that shit. So I thought the first 30 minutes, I thought pre-prison was a little cheesy. I was having trouble. And then once we got to prison

and he gets into the room with Horowitz and there's the boom box and you got Viking, I immediately was in. Yeah, I'm with Craig. That first 30 minutes probably could be maybe 20 minutes. Yeah, well, you're just like,

oh, I don't, where is this movie going? Is this a Chicago crime saga? And you're like, no, no, no, this is a jail movie. Also, Sean Penn, there's something about Sean Penn and there's other guys like him. I'm trying to think, like, there's a masculinity, there's a manly quality to Sean Penn. Harrison Ford had it too.

where the guys now, like Chris Evans or Gosling or whoever, they just feel like a lab-grown diamond. And Sean Penn and Harrison Ford types, they just have like a real toughness to them where they just feel like a real guy who they just picked up at a bar and put him in a movie. And there's not actors like that anymore. Yeah, you're right.

That's a good way to put it. It does seem like he was just kind of yanked off the street and throwing a leather jacket on him and they just told him to start acting. There's a gritty handsomeness to them. That's just different than the guys now. Yeah, it's like Jeff Bridges. Yes, that's another good one.

Or maybe your generation is just soft, Craig. There might be a tiff. Maybe you still have your champagne. Could be it. All right, bad boys. 1983, free on Amazon Prime. Was this everything you hoped it would be, Bill? Yeah, I love this movie.

I stand by the choice. I'm sure some people get upset. No, I wasn't trying to provoke you to be like you can get preemptively mad at people. I was just like, When I told you I wanted to do this one, you're like, I hadn't seen it in a while. And I actually, my feelings were hurt because this is about a CR of a movie as I think has been made in the last 40 years. And then I texted you midway through and they're like, oh yeah, this is the best movie ever made.

Yeah. I was like, it was just, you know, it's the same way I'm sure like I haven't seen Big Lebowski yet. I'm still saving it. And I know I'm going to watch them. I'm like, God damn, this movie's amazing. I can't believe I hadn't seen it. But it's the same kind of thing. All right.

This podcast was produced by Craig Horrell. back. This was the rewatchable. We will see you next week.