The Rewatchables - ‘Blackhat’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are doing the time, the time isn’t doing them. In the ultimate “One for Them,” the guys rewatch Micahel Mann’s 2015 film ‘Blackhat,’ starring Chris Hemsworth, Tang Wei, and Viola Davis. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? It's Brian Barrett from Off the Pipe, where we're gearing up for another exciting NFL season. We'll be with you every Sunday after the Pats with three-time Super Bowl champion James White to recap the game and break down the biggest moments. Plus, episodes Tuesdays and Thursdays to cover all things Patriots with your favorite Boston sports guests, as well as familiar voices from the Ringer podcast network. So follow Off the Pipe with me, Brian Barrett, on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by a do. Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast. Because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines?

Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the watch with Chris Ryan. Cranking all the way through a wet hot summer here in L.A. You're also on the big picture as well. Philly Special maybe a little bit?

Yeah. Ringer Fellow Special, tiny bit. I want to be the number one option, though, so I don't know if I'm going to go back on Philly Special. You don't like playing off the ball? I'm tired of deferring to Riem. Coming up is a top five one for us. It literally might be only for us.

Black Hat is next. You think you're safe. Control. This is all. It's a rehearsal. The wheelhead is till they come. Only the beginning. Black Hat, a Michael Man film.

Ridid R. All right, CR. We've been circling Black Hat for a couple years now, specifically you. I don't know what keeps sucking you in with this movie. It's been on Netflix recently. Maybe that was it. But like every three, four months,

you'll send me a texter test. Test, texter. Yo. Black hat. Yeah. Then like eight months later, Black Hat. That car explosion.

It's fucking amazing. You're just like, you're in Idaho in a fly fishing boat, just sending out the lines, just kind of hanging out waiting to see if I'd pull. And then finally I decided to pull because Michael Mann was doing press for his new Ferrari movie. Yeah. And the last movie he made was Black Cat. and not only did he admit that it was disappointing

he blamed the fact that they never finished script and I don't want to say he disowned the movie but he was just like we did not land the plane on Black Hat he said he was just was not ready to get made the script was not there and this is an example of man kind of if left to his own devices and you know having this

I think he's had directors cut for his entire career yeah but you know working in a in a way that like if it's not going to work, there's not a lot of other people to come in and save it. I think I just read like a Ferrari piece where the cinematographer Eric Mezzersmith's like often when you're making movies, like you're doing it in collaboration. Yeah. Michael Mann makes the movies. You're just there to help him. Right. And so I think it's big of him, but also probably honest to say if there's problems with blackout, there are problems of my own making. We saw this together. We did.

In the theater working for Grantland in 2015, January. It was released the same, weekend as American sniper and it got annihilated and it had a $70 million budget, made $19 million and was considered to be one of the biggest failures of man's career. Yeah. We both kind of liked it. We had some issues with it. But I think what's interesting specifically about a movie like this, these movies that just are trying to do a shitload of stuff.

It's two hours, 13 minutes, something like that. You're remembering all these characters. People are from different countries. There's factories that are being blown up. China and then, you know, we have to go to Jakarta. We're going all over the place. You're trying to follow this threat of a plot that makes sense if you've been working on the movie for a year.

It also makes sense if it's edited the way Michael Mann said he should have edited the movie. Right. So he thinks he should have taken the beginning and put it in the middle, which gives you a sense of like, okay, they didn't really figure this one totally out. And on first watch, it's a lot. Yeah. It is like an AP bio exam that you're just getting thrown into.

Like here. It's the dream that you showed up to the test without your pants. Right. You're like, and, you know, now it's been eight years. It's been on a lot.

We kind of know the beats of when to come in on. I understand mostly what's happening. What do you think? Like 90%? Are you at 100% yet? Where are you? I think that now that I have, this is the coolest thing about this movie.

So there's like, we record a lot of the times on podcasts, we record pro tools, right, Craig? And there's like, when you're getting the audio files, they're called stems often. this is like having raw stems of a Michael Man movie,

and you just have to assemble it in your head. And I've watched this movie now enough so that like I can see the movie that it was supposed to be even while the movie itself is fighting that vision. Right. And that is bizarre that I do that, but it is actually like not, that it's not atypical of a Michael Man movie experience.

Other than Heat and a few others, they often take a few years to, kind of really slip into the consciousness and also like to become like your favorites you know because like well it's like that like wine when they say don't drink this for nine years yeah don't drink this until don't have this mojito for five or six years you know and i think that you watch them and you're like oh okay like i'm trying to put together the plot there but that was really cool and then you watch it again you're like oh i kind of get it that was that was cool and then you watch it four five six 10 15 times you're like that's all i really want to watch

You know, and when this went on Netflix, it was really easy to just run black hat because it's a cool movie to look at. Well, and then it also aged just because of where the world is going, which, so now there's a belated black hat. It actually was good. Yeah. And mainly because of how it mirrors a lot of real life events, a lot of things that were really afraid of in 23. He was ahead of the curve on it. Everybody who is involved in, like, technology and safety and things like that, they all say, like, you know, know, this is the most authentic version of this that any movie is done. Yeah, it was based off of or

inspired by like a real life hack, the Stuxnet hack that brought down or crippled in an Iranian nuclear reactor, I think. And, you know, you're watching it and you're like, yeah, because a lot of the times hacking in movies is like, how could, how can we make this real and you have to make it almost like the matrix, right? Like you have to make it like an action movie. And it's pretty, it's pretty complex in Black Hat, but like you said, like a lot of like computer experts have been like, this is about as close as we've ever gotten at representing what this is like in film. It's like hearing a story from your spouse or a parent that's just super long story that's incoherent and goes all over the place.

No, no, no, so soy futures. And it's just, it's going. And the first time you're like, man, that went in nine different directions. They had to stop and restart it. But then after you hear them tell it the seventh time, you know all the beats. Oh yeah, this story's great. Tell the story about the tennis club. And it's also like as long as the story has all the hallmarks of your favorite stories,

which are Michael Man movies. And there are a lot of things in this movie that are basically Michael Man classic tropes. Yeah, it's Michael Man karaoke. Yeah. He is our favorite director and the reason that we started the rewatchables. We have done Thief, Les Mohicans, Heat, the insider, which we did on rewatchables 99, but we haven't run on this feed yet, which was a really good podcast. Collateral we've done Miami Vice.

and Black Hat. And Manhunter, haven't we done Manhunter? Yeah. And Manhunter? Yeah, we only haven't done public enemies, I think. I don't know if public enemies is happening. We also did Miami Vice, the two episode, Calderon. We did that.

We haven't done Jericho Mile, which is the one I really want to do, but I don't think it's available anywhere. Yeah. I think you have to go on YouTube, or you have to go on that site where they reverse it. Oh, yeah. And they slow the audio down. Yeah.

And talk like this a little bit. Here's so I did the Michael man The concept of him robbing Like just Thief starts out small time robbers We did that Last of the Mohicans People robbing the land

America Heat bank robbers The insider Robbing society They're just murdering people And we don't fully realize it Ali They're robbing his career

It's the heavyweight champ They're trying to take it away from him collateral. This guy's just trying to rob Jamie Fox's sanity in life. He's just directly, he is just trying to torture this one person. That's it. Miami Vice drug robbers. Public enemies, like old school.

What we grew up, yeah, what we grew up the robbers that we heard the stories from in the 20s, and then Black Cat technology. It's weird that those, that's the theme over and over again in literally every Michael Mann movie is robbing. Yeah, and I think he finds some sort of almost spirituality in the act of like a heist. You know, like, it's the ultimate obstacle.

It's like this individual, and he's confronted with an institution, he's confronted with some sort of, like, immovable force. And he's going to use his expertise in every one of his films is about somebody who is an expert at something. Right.

In all of his movies. A meticulous expert. They are, like, a samurai when it comes to what they do. And they're, like, monastic in the pursuit of perfection in what they do. So he was 72 and he made this? If he's 52, does he do a better job? Or is this?

It's just too impossible. Well, that's a great question about what went wrong because obviously, you know, I think that he says that he put the nuclear reactor meltdown in the beginning of the movie because he felt like the movie needed a bigger pop to start with. Yeah. In the director's cut, which aired, I think just once on FX as part of like a retrospective that they were showing an all-day cable thing and is now going to be available on the blackout Blu-ray in a couple of months, the reactor happens in the second act when they get to China.

It's like they go to, I think it's in Hong Kong and they go and like the reactor happens after the shootout with Casar the first time, which makes total sense. Right. But you have to imagine that a guy hacking the Chicago stock exchange to drive up soy futures is enough to break out halfway from prison. And I kind of see why... Right, so he gets the note, this isn't enough. They'd never use this car.

Or he's watching and he's just like, I don't think this is a big enough deal. The problem with this movie and the reason why I think some people feel like it's like kind of unfinished in some ways, is that he then subs in all this dialogue and does all this stuff with the first 25 minutes, 30 minutes in the movie where people are clearly not speaking the words that are coming out of their amounts in the scenes. because he's trying to say like the nuclear reactor has already exploded. Yeah, I didn't know if I was going crazy or they were actually doing that. You can tell the sounds all over the place. Like I sometimes, I know this is wild, but like I think there might even be a difference

between the version that's uploaded to Amazon and Netflix. Like, oh, really? Yeah, like it's, it's sometimes you'll think like. Because you bought this a few years ago or something? Yeah. So you look at that and then you look at the Netflix version and then I've seen, I've seen the director's cut of that was on. on FX and it just makes a lot more sense,

but there's still these weird things that he does, like sometimes the music just stops. Like not fades out, not goes into something, dialogue disappears and stuff. So it's... Where do you stand on people

going backwards with movies they already made and changing them? I think within reason it's pretty cool, but when you're like, we're on the 13th cut of Blade Runner, I'm like, just wake me up when it's the definitive one. Right.

Like when they did... Should I start doing this with old columns I wrote? Guys, Eighth Cut released. You know what we should do is go back and do fantasy cuts, where it's just Sean being like, great point, guys.

You got him. We cut out all of his actual points. Absolutely. 2.0 version of the Jawsbury watchable. Sean just doesn't say anything. Sean sounds like Ed McMahon. He's just laughing. Right, you are, SG.

Yes, sir. So, as the last eight years evolve, this becomes a much cooler movie. As the rewatchability of it evolves, it becomes a much cooler movie. You start overlooking things like Chris Homsworth, like the whatever accent he was trying to do in the first 30 minutes and then kind of abandons.

Guard. He just ends up doing this low guttural kind of jame gum voice for the last two-thirds, which actually works better. He's just doing a lot of that. But I remember when we left the theater, we were like, were they doing with Chris Hemsworth.

Yeah. Because at that point, Rush had come out. He was great in that. This felt like, oh, we're having a moment with this guy. He's in this new Michael Mann movie, technology.

Like, we couldn't wait to see this. And then it just wasn't a great version of him. But now as I watch it, it's a little like what happened with Colin Farrar on the Miami Vice movie where the more you watch it, it's like, it's pretty good.

Yeah. I mean, you have to accept that this is the world's best hacker who is also Jason Bourne. And I just told you this. Who's also fucking Jack. Yeah, if I told you that that was just a movie, you'd be like, yeah, that sounds like a Jason Statham movie or something. But instead, it's a Michael Mann film with Thor.

So you're like, okay, like he really got that cool at this by doing pushups in prison. But kind of all of his behavior does relate back to his biography if you pay attention. It's just that he's also this beautiful blonde man who's like perfectly chiseled. I thought they should have named the movie Handsome Hacker. Yeah. just like coming from Michael Man, Shane Ray, the handsome hacker. Maybe he's stolen a couple more

American sniper bucks if they did that. So here's for the people listening who've watched Black Hat a couple times don't totally still know what happened. There's a nuclear plan in Hong Kong goes in a meltdown, a hacker causes the pump to explode. Then

they hacked the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and the soy futures go nuts. And the Chinese government and the FBI realize the hack was performed using some sort of remote access tool that they don't fully understand they get our guy Chen Dwai who is who's like I wrote this code yeah he's like oh I wrote this with my dude who's in prison let's get him out yeah so Chet and Dwai is a they're at MIT yeah and they wrote this code together

and somebody took the code and just started replacing small pieces of it and basically made it like the most evil code possible and only these guys know how to fix the code or how to track it. Pretty good premise for a movie. It's way more complicated, the first 25. I mean, there's things you're like, wait, what? You almost like need a notepad and a pen. Yes.

Like, wait, okay, so that's, and I think people have trouble with those movies when you're watching the first time. I had trouble the rounders the first time. We talked about that and the rounders rewatchables. Like, I couldn't follow all the poker stuff. It was happening too fast. And then, like, by the eighth time, I'm like, okay, I get it. Got it.

This happens. And I think once you know what to expect in this movie and when things happen, if you want, you can just look at it like this. There's an attack on the Chicago mercantile. The soy futures go up. Somebody makes a ton of money. They start tracing that. They figure out that the money is going back to Hong Kong, to these gangsters who wouldn't

normally be involved in something like this. And they're just kind of like, they're obviously like being used by somebody else. And then they break, they take Hathaway out of prison. He's looking into the code. They're tracking some people in L.A. And then something happens where they feel that, you know, they have to, you know, they have go back to Hong Kong, and when they get to Hong Kong, they chase this Lebanese terrorist or Lebanese mercenary in Qasar.

He's the shirtless smoking tattooed guy. Just so fucking villainy. Yes. And there's a shootout. That's when the nuclear reactor is supposed to happen. Yeah. All that stuff happens. And then it eventually leads to a showdown between Hathaway and this blackout.

So one of the flaws of this is whoever gave him the note, you can't start a movie with soy fuchs. Skyrocketing. We need like a big explosion. No, that's the end of trading places. Yeah, right, right. We need to build up to soy futures. So Black Hat comes out.

American sniper annihilates it. Within two weeks, Universal decides to withdraw the film from all but 236 theaters. Yeah. So it takes it out of like 230 plus theaters, which is the six big theaters, which is the six big biggest drop in the history of third week films for most percentages of a movie just pulled out that's how bad it was Legendary the company that did it they took a 90 million dollar write down on the film

Which isn't isn't awesome and then Michael Mann his quote was it's my responsibility the script is not ready to shoot The subject may have been ahead of the curb because there were a number of people who thought this is all fantasy wrong Everything is stone cold accurate and I think that's what's grown with the movie is like it's actually like really impeccably accurate. Yes. But sometimes impeccably accurate, isn't that much fun to watch just if you're watching a movie for the first time. Well, it's almost like a micro versus macro thing.

It's like micro accurate. Like I'm like pretty much all of the computer stuff, all of the like, even down to like the level of detail that he imbues with like Reyes, the guy. Yeah. Who initially starts like he steals the USB. Right. The dude's death. They're like he's a wet, he's in a West Texas prison gang.

He's in Zappatecas. This is how we. find him. It's like, this is like really well-researched stuff. But on the macro, like, they'll be in LA and then they'll be in Hong Kong and then they'll be in Jakarta and you're like, what the fuck are, how the fuck are they getting all over the place like this? And why did they trust Chris Semsworth's character this much? Or not enough. They pulled him out of jail and he's just basically becomes, you know, Paul Walker in the first Best and Furious movie. Yeah. So I think that there's like huge holes, but then if you were to drill down and be like, I'm looking at this through a microscope, you'd be like,

oh wow, everything that they're doing kind of makes sense. It sounds like we're apologizing for this movie as much. I'm not apologizing. I love it every time I watch it. Another thing that often happens with Michael Mann movies that happens with this one too is that initially people see it

and they're like, this looks weird because he's always like trying new stuff with cameras and he's trying, you know, this is fully digital. It's all handheld digital over and over again. He's running around like lipstick cameras. There's cameras like up on like people's necks for a second. And you're like, oh, this looks stupid.

And then you watch YouTube for eight years. And you're like, oh, yeah, blackout looks great. Black hat looks amazing. Right. The pandemic made Black Hat look even better. I don't think this is aged, like, as well as Miami Vice did. No. Miami Vice within about five years, you know, started to look like some draft pick where

you're like, I was dead wrong about that one. Yeah. Can't believe Tyrese Halliburton turned out like this. I actually was a believer in it. But, um. I was waiting to see if you were going to be like, not me. I always believed it. Who took me a while?

Who do you have that you just didn't believe? in and then the guy turned into something. I was dubious of Dwight Howard. Yeah. Coming out of high school, he just kind of seemed like a weird guy. Right to be dubious in certain ways.

Yeah. Well, he made some all-MBAs. But yeah, I think this movie has aged in a way or maybe like, what do you think the next five, ten years look like? Well, one thing will be interesting is if he ever assembles and then releases, like, in the Blu-ray,

if the director's cut becomes widely available. But do those manner? Because, like, they did that with 54, which everybody was like, oh, now this movie makes sense. But I don't know anyone who's seen it other than probably Sean. No, because the Blade Runner, the Blade Runners are like, I think that's one of the reasons why Blade Runner has remained in the discourse is because every once in a while, every few years, or at least Scott, like, tweak something in Blade Runner.

And we have to have a Blade Runner retrospective. And people go and watch, like, marathons of all the different cuts and think about it. So I think if... So you think we should do another reheat? I think we should do this. the re-black hat in two years. I'm ready for the re-miami vice. Yeah.

Let's talk, majitos. I'm, whenever you want. Well, one thing about this movie, Chris, the internet. It's out there. It's out there. Everything you want. It's his real Kelso stuff. No Roger Ebert review because he was not with us anymore.

Yeah, but Matt Zoller sites on rogeriebert.com. Give it three and a half out of four. Interesting. There you go. All right. We're taking a break through categories. This episode is brought to you by. Try two good and company coffee creamers.

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brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Most rewatchable scene. The opening credits how he does the actual hacking, the computer graphic, whatever the fuck he's doing. I think he's pretty riveting. It's up there with some of the best stuff I've seen. It's basically like the fight club credit sequence. Yeah.

Really good. I just wanted to mention that. It's not a most rewatchable, but it's really cool. The offer to our guy Nicholas, Chris Hemsworth's character, first of all, I love his Chicago accent, which is really only in this scene. Then they're like, hey, hey, Chris, I know you work with the dialect coast, but can he stop? But I love this movie hits a lot of tropes, including, this isn't a negotiation. I just made it one.

We're good. You didn't sign it. Yeah, why would I sign it? Why? Because of the generosity of the assistant U.S. attorney and granting you a furlough. Both you and the assistant U.S. attorney. Let's take that document up your ass. I'm sorry. Why, you're sorry?

I insulted you. What are you sorry for? I'm not sorry. Don't think you're going to... Hey, you want to raise me up out of here, solve your trade exchange dilemma, and I get furlough for a couple of weeks. You're kidding me? You have any idea how much progress you get to... to make on a strike this complex without someone like me?

Zero. This isn't a negotiation. I just made it one. You want me to pass this upstairs. My assistant results in the identification and the apprehension of the guy you're after. I want you to commute my sentence. I come up empty to toss my ass back in the can.

Those are the terms. Guard. I like when he's like, the Justice Department, guy's like, I'm sorry. And he's like, why are you sorry? I insulted you. Right.

So when he gets to the Korean restaurant, to me, this is when the movie takes off. Like, if I'm doing the rewatchable, I'm not saying I'd throw away the first 20 minutes, but if I'm coming in right around here, I'm good. Yeah. And this is where Leanne starts to really go for him. And is like, why don't you talk to me like a real person and stop talking to me like you're still in prison? He's doing his whole like, I do my time, not the institution's time.

I'm sorry for what happened to you. Oh, you know, don't be. I'm not fishing for sympathy here. I did the crime. I'm doing the time. Time isn't doing me. What's that? I do my own time, not the institutions.

See, to hold on to who you are in there. You dedicate yourself to your program. You work out in your body and your mind. Cheesy, but it works, man. It's Jimmy Conn from the thief. It's like the same guy. It's just the same guy and recurring throughout man's, man's filmography. It's amazing.

This has a lot of action scene tropes that I like. Just the setup is perfect of the restaurant, like just how big it is, where it's just big enough to have an awesome fight, but also small enough to have an awesome fight. Then kind of note it when the guy notices the cameras, like five minutes into the dinner and looks up and they do that thing. It's like, I'll be right back. Just leaves her.

And then he goes in the back. Logs in his ghost man. Yeah. puts in ghost man. Piss off and die ghost man. The fight scene's awesome. Yeah. The fight scenes are in these movies are great.

It happens where it's like, I would say, one of the better fights in guys. Yeah, I mean, the extraction stuff is great that he's been in recently. But these are, and you just basically have to imagine these is like, this guy's been in prison brawls. Like, this guy has been in fights in cells in on yards. And like, this is how he fights. So if our guy, Mike's redoing this, I would have thrown in a prison fight in the first 12 minutes, replace the soy futures. To show like this is how this guy gets down in prison. He might be a hacker, but he's fucking badass.

Yeah. Like, he beats the shit out of somebody in the cafeteria, and then when they show him in, he's, like, icing. Then he goes, like, reads Michelle Foucault and does, like, 100,000 push-ups. Mike, man, put that in there, baby. You got this. Next one I have is him finding the transmitter and the plants. Yeah.

I just like that hole or it's like holding up the, holding up the phone, walking over the different spots. Yeah. And good stuff. The raid of Casar's hideout. first of all has there ever been a basement hideout in any action movie where it didn't kind of work out no and especially a basement that has a tunnel that leads to the pier yeah and like like a lot of i was trying to think because as somebody who's worked on a house in their day like just what kind

of crew is working on that basement with the with the total high end like fiber cement whatever the fuck's going on down there it's like this isn't like just a couple couple days down there like they're really trying to build something. There's traps and bombs. Like, who's doing this? Where do you find people to do that stuff? Apparently, like, the mercenaries are us, like classified ads. The best part about this, too, is, like, when you see Casar and he's sitting in the cafe

when they find the transmitter, and he's just, like, smoking and texting or whatever. Yeah. This guy, Alden just kind of, like, doesn't seem like that big. I wonder if he's going to be much of an adversary. Yeah. And then the first time you see him move with a gun, you're just like, oh, shit. And nobody does gunfights like Michael Mann. Like the sound, the dynamics of it are just incredible.

It's an elite scene. The explosion is the best scene in this movie for me. Oh, in the tunnel? No, when her brother blows up. Oh, this is later. You're talking about the one later on. I'm going later. Oh, okay.

Yeah. The explosion. Okay, yeah. When the brother blows up, that was an all-time wow moment in the theater. It still is. It's something about it makes you jump when it has. happens. It's out of nowhere. It hits the plunger again because then they get Viola and Holt.

Yeah, that whole scene, and you can't believe that they kill the brother and then they double down and they kill our guy Holt, who I know we're going to talk about later and Vola, who's incredible in this movie. That whole scene's nuts. I have some nitpicks about maybe the gunfighting on the Vola Holt side. Okay. Just not hiding behind a pillar or anything. No defensive position.

Just standing out, just shooting. I like when he when he into the parking garage when he backs the car over the parking garage and it just falls. I don't think I've ever seen that in a movie before. It was so cool.

I had to Fast and Furious not do that. But he's trying to basically call it like he's basically breaking in to this server company by dropping a car through its roof. Really good. The convo with the bad guy when you finally hunts it down

and the guy says, oh, you were never in the game. You're glorified Carter. Yeah. I want to be careful. for the ghost. Don't you have a job looking yourself out of prison? What do I want employment for?

Oh, you want a piece to put yourself back into the game. You were never in the game. You're a glorified Carter. A Carter whose time has expired. Check your exploration date. Your shelf life is over. Glorified Carter holding your 74 million. Okay, last time, what do you want?

I want 20%. Casa, Kassar says that. And then the final big scene, which is really good. All the people, whatever ceremony that is that they're doing. I think it's a Nepalese ceremony, but it's, yeah, in this place in Jakarta, and they do, they basically have like an epic gunfight knife fight that apparently you just need to strap a couple issues of Marie Claire to your stomach and you're good. With a thousand bystanders, none of them saw anything. They're just kind of walking ahead with their swords. I'm going to guess that you have the basement raid and the shootout.

It's like, it's just, I think gunfights on screen, it's basically like, Sam, Pack and Paul, John Wu, Michael Mann, and Chad Stahelsky. And it's like, there's really, that's it when, that's the only people I really want to see shooting this stuff. Yeah. And there's just so many amazing details in this, but like, even Karras, like the, like checking on his Indonesian crew and be like, is this guy okay? Because you'd usually expect the bad guy to be like, fuck him, I don't care. Yeah. But he's like, you can tell like, that. That's his little click.

So yeah, it's definitely this. I had a couple other watchable scenes, though. Let's hear it. Okay, I have when Barrett and DeWi brace the financial sector guy, and she's like, Gary, may I call you Gary? Oh, yeah. I had that in one stage the best. Am I being tangible, Gary? How's this for tangible?

In the next 15 seconds, I call Laura Greer at the Commodities Trading Commission, and I say, Laura, how you doing? I'd like to launch an official investigation on one Gary Baker. So the headline, M-Tech official, investigated for aiding and abetting cyber criminals, leaks to CNN in the next 90s, so it makes the 3 o'clock news cycle as well as the nightly news. And that'd be good, too. Am I being tangible? Gary? I'm going to call Laura Greer at Commodities Trading Commission, and I say, Laura, how are you doing?

Yeah, I love that scene. She's great to put that in. And I also really like him in the nuclear core, like the nuclear reactor core, because it's just like, how fuck did they shoot this? This looks just incredible. Yeah. But yeah, the phone call, the last fighter are great. But I have this Sheko fight. Would stage the best?

People with absolutely unparalleled elite skills trapped in jail. Yeah. Just a great movie premise. I'm in every time. If I told you that the director's cut. behind bars. Of this movie was an hour

of Hathaway in prison. Oh, yeah. The prequel of this is just him in prison. Yeah. Hacking and trying to give everybody more meal money.

Commissary. Yeah. Another one I love, another trope. The criminal getting a quick release from jail because only he can help the investigation.

Just perfect. I'm in. That's it. I'm in. Here's my money. I like when a hacker gets foiled as he's hacking. So like when the bad guy

He thinks like I'm King Hacker I'm just I'm going nuts here I'm fucking with the solar futures Nobody I got this code and then all of a sudden Somebody flips it on them and they're like Who's this guy? Ghostface what's going on here? You mentioned the viola scene

I mean to me that's at what's age the best And I don't know when you want to have this conversation About Bob Iola In this movie Yeah let's do it I think she's just fan fucking tastic. I could. I wish

I remember saying this to Wesley a couple years ago. I just wish she was this persona slash character and more movies. I mean she is. Because I think she's like smoking hot in this movie. She's got like a vibe to her and I just feel it makes me mad like Tarantino

never got a hold of her or director like that and just like I'm just putting you in the face of a movie and you're going to carry it and be this person right here. She pretty much plays a version of this character in suicide squad where she does yeah so it's like it's kind of more indicative of where movies are now where it's like a movie like black hat is actually just suicide squad or has become something like that but she uh i was watching interviews with her around the time that this came out and she just like spent all this time with like the person who was running the DEA at the time

yeah and just observed all these folks like man had her with all these high rolling agents and she had such an amazing, like, conception of this character who honestly doesn't on the screen that much or doesn't have that much to do. Doesn't have much to do and isn't really written out in a great way. And she just, like, creates this whole character from scratch. It's awesome. She has more chemistry with Chris Hemsworth than his girlfriend. That was my next one's age the best is when Chris Hemsworth's like, Ola, Chica.

I thought she was awesome. And then our guy, Holt. Yeah. You want to do Holt? You want to do 40 seconds on this? I mean, I think it's a compliment to say that he has the size more apart in this movie. It's just like your name is Mike Jessup. Sign me a lifetime contract.

I'm in. He's a U.S. Marshall, but is like willing to bend the law to get the guy. And he's just got so much screen presence. And, you know, you can see him in Mine Hunter. You can see him in so many things. But he's awesome. Yeah, he's beyond that guy.

But he was that guy for a while. but, you know, Shot Collar. Holt McCallany, we're talking about it. Yeah. Shot Collar is the beast. I know you love Shot Car. Shot Car will be a one for us at some point. He's in Jack Reacher.

He had a whole run. He's in Warrior, the TV movie. He was in Sully. What was the boxing movie show that he had on FX? I think it was Warrior, wasn't it? That was the name of the show? I think so, yeah. Yeah, he was just in a lot of stuff for a lot of years.

where he was either the bad guy or the good guy who could be a badass. Yeah. And he's got a very distinctive face. I thought Shot Collar was probably his... Fincher really, like, obviously likes using him a lot, but he's incredible in Mindhunter of people. Oh, and Fight Club way back.

He was in that, too. Hamji Park, I think that's how you say it. This is a real place. It's in Korea Town. I don't think it's exactly... They said in the address, they said, I think, like, 8th Street, but I think it's actually...

Or maybe they said 6th Street. Whatever street they say in the movie, It's a couple blocks away, but this place exists. You can go there. Do you think K-Town is Michael Mann's favorite alley neighborhood? I didn't think that was the question you were going to ask me. I thought you were going to ask me, how have we not gone to dinner at this place yet?

Let's go. I mean, honestly, how have we not gone to dinner at this place yet? Wouldn't you want to walk in? I'd just be like, looking around. We can go to BJ's on Alvarado afterwards. Yeah, no, he's Koreatown. He gets it. Yeah.

Yeah, man, that's why he's our guy. the Michael man staring out to L.A. shot just like a staple. Again, a lot of karaoke here, but he's got Nicholas and his girlfriend and they're just kind of looking out the window

and then they decide to hook up. But very similar, a little De Niro Eadie. Speaking of karaoke, there's a moment when it's almost towards the end of the film, but Hathaway and Leanne are in Indonesia. They're in a dry riverbed.

Yeah. And it's basically the, we just got made scene where he's looking around at nothing and then puts it all together. Yeah. And that is like my favorite Michael Man moment. It's like not unlike also Will Graham watching the videos and being like, you wanted them to watch, didn't you? You know, it's like there's like the revelation for our protagonist is so good. Do you think man should have leaned into some of the old Michael Man movies more like he just could add Nicholas go, these guys are good. You know who's watching us?

Oh man. Casar. I just wrote down bald bearded smoking shirtless tattooed bad guy. Yeah. It's like he hits every part of the checklist. Yeah. Like when he points the remote for the detonator,

like and he's just like that. I look behind me. I'm like, is every, I'm like, it's like, it's like terrible. That's my blowing up. Just mentioning our guy, John Ortiz, who in the Miami Vice movie is the bad guy. He's working for the King drug guy.

He's the guy in the scene when they go into the warehouse, Colin Farrell and Jamie Fox. He's sitting on the other side of the table. He's, every time I see him, I get excited. Yeah. He did, I think he was in a TV series, like a comedy. Ortiz? Yeah, he's bounced around on a bunch of stuff.

But man likes him. He's in like kind of the microcontest. man, repertory players. For sure. More Wood Sage the Best. Anytime something called Black Widow is involved as not a spider. Just any time we're doing keystrokes.

Anytime we're like... Just put Black Widow in. When AI takes over these movies, just put Black Widow in the AI cycle. Also, in one of these movies, when the lead guy is told by somebody else, you have to run. Yeah. I'm in. Yeah.

What else do you have for Wood Sage the Best? I thought, honestly, uh, Lehan Wong, who plays DeWai is awesome in this movie. And is, is like incredibly cool. Uh,

speaks Mandarin in English throughout the film. And is like a very, very, like, well done character and the performance is awesome. Um, so I want to, I just shot him out.

And then, oh, I forgot to mention that they're good helicopters in this movie. Oh my God. Like, like, like 15 seat helicopters. You just don't see him.

And then just like the stuff that Michael Mann does that very few other filmmakers do where it's like he's in Hong Kong and like a shot will start with like basically a low angle of a guy cooking with a walk on high flame. He's like, what the fuck is happening? Mike, come on. It turns into a Bourdain episode for two seconds. And then magazine body armor. Yeah, that's another one.

Would you have for Kid Cuddy Pursuit Happiness War for Best Needle Drop? I couldn't really come up to go on it. So this is a very interesting bit. The music in this movie is someone. somewhat controversial, but I would say, like, let's just say the Michael Man synths and Michael Man using alarms in a scene that then turn into the music of the scene. So during the shootout at the pier, it sounds like it's the alarm that's going off on the computer when they find out that the money is being emptied, but then the alarm just becomes the backdrop for the techno music

that's playing during the shootout. Yeah. That's just badass. It's badass, but it's no Miami advice. No, it's no Lincoln Park, JC. That, man, Big Hoon and Burger Ware best use of food or drink. The broken wine bottle, that he breaks the wine bottle, and usually when guys do that,

it's to fend people off, and he breaks it and immediately, it's like, do like the fucking mascazoro in the guy, seven cuts. Love that. Denna Thieves, Benny Hanna Award for Seen Stealing Location. This could go a lot of ways. You could go the restaurant, the nuclear

reactor. What'd you say? I would go restaurant. I would go to the Korean restaurant. Just such that great wide high shot of just, and you're just like, oh man. Oh, the bus spot. I don't trust him. Yeah.

Who's sitting over that next table over there? I don't know if I trust them either. You just kind of know something's going to happen. Great shot order award. I mean, the ending fight scene was really cool in the theater. Yeah. With just the colors and all the people. But the opening is really unique.

What else do you have? I have when Barrett gets killed and she's just told the story, or not even told the story, but just mentioned that her husband died 9-11. And she gets killed and the last thing she looks up in the tower. Yeah, that's fucking awesome. Great. Yeah.

And then I also just love when they spring Hathaway and he's walking across the tarmac. And it's just like the shot of nothing that he's standing on this huge airplane runway, airport runway is really great but probably the Barrett dying. The Vincent Chase Award. I was sure this character was actually good at his or her job. Gila Davis's character.

I'm not, I don't know, a lot of leeway here for a guy they released from hey, should I hack in a Black Widow? I don't know, man. I'll look the other way if you want to go in there. I'm pretty sure the answer is maybe don't get in a Black Widow. Yeah, maybe it needed to be a plan B there.

Yeah, we didn't need the $74 million is this bad that we're going to have this criminal hacking into, like, our most precious defense system. I don't know. What would have we weighed that? The Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film, just we already covered it. Just how fucking confusing it is if you're watching it the first time. This is, unfortunately, you have to watch this for like eight years to understand that Chris and I. This is a podcast that will really make sense. Yeah.

This is a one for us. In 2031. This would be a one for us eight listens from now for the listener. Let's take a break and then we'll do what stage is worse. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptitide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems

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The critiques of this movie have not aged well because one of the things people critiqued was like, this isn't realistic. And it actually turned out it was incredibly realistic. So is it mostly that they don't think the computer stuff is realistic or that they don't think Hemsworth is realistic because he's too hot to be a guy who just spends all this time. Well, that was a piece of it. But also, I think, you know, that they would free that that it was this important to free this guy for what was going on. And could somebody really just do this and unleash holy havoc on? You don't you see a lot of guys coming out of federal jail being like, man, I was rumored with the hottest guy in the world.

I was rumored with Chris Hemsworth. His accent, we mentioned. He said, well after the movie, I didn't enjoy what I did in the film. It just felt flat. And it was also an attempt to do what I thought people might have wanted to see. But I don't think I'm good in that space. This is actually...

Chris, slow down, buddy. Yeah. You did fine. I thought that this was one thing that aged the worst. Not his performance. His take on his own performance. Chris, you were good. Yeah, man.

Just used an Australian accent next time. Guess what? It would have been fine if you were from Sydney. Australia. Did it matter? Like, okay, he's from Chicago. Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't ever say he's from Chicago. I think that was like a Michael Mann note where it's like you're from

Chicago and you went to the gladi and academy. You're like Jimmy Khan. For 2015, just make him, you came from Australia, you went to MIT. Yeah. And you have fucking Australian accent. Done. I have this as a what stage is the worst. This is just a general nitpick, the guy who went to jail

because he injured somebody in a fight. Oh yeah. That's Nicholas Cajun. It's 40 action movies. It's like, I'm actually a good person. Unfortunately, I'm a lethal weapon. I got for folks and I can't, and that 18 months. But I'm fine. I'm not actually criminal.

It's never, we never having this. Like, so what did you do to go in jail? Well, you know, I was sending photos. I blew a 1.2. I was sending photos. It turned out the girl was 15. I had no idea. And just like record screech.

Yeah. It's always like, yeah, I got a fight. I got hurt. Yeah, but it's always protecting someone else that you got in the fight. It's not because you were just like, I had 16 BBRs and blacked out because I lost a bunch of money on daily fantasy. Right. Or like, yeah, I had this gambling ponsie scheme and I defrauded 40 billion from my friends.

Yeah. So I learned my lesson. Yeah. Another would stage the worst. The feelings of people who fix TVs and garage door openers because they kind of get to drive by shooting in this from Chris Hemsworth. Yeah. And then what's age the worst?

Dents' plots. I wrote down. Yeah, I had the jumpy dialogue trying to explain the dense plot. Yeah, dense plots are tough. It's hard to have a film directed by Michael Mann that you're just like, the audio mixes off on this movie in some place. Right. The king of impeccable everything. Yeah. Can't get the audio right.

I also like, this is a movie where I do crack open the Wikipedia to make sure I'm following it. Yeah, I'm like, oh, wait, what part are we in and going? Oh, yeah, yeah, that part. It is so there's a lot going on. For most of the movie, we get Khazar. is the bad guy. But then at the end, Sadok,

I think his name is, but like he gets introduced. He gets two scenes. We don't know anything about him. We don't get his ideology, his biography. We don't know why he's doing what he's doing. Yeah.

Hathaway is like, you need money because that's your scoreboard in the virtual world. But like, that's not like a reason for all of this. The guy brought down a nuclear power plant. It would have been funny if he was like, I'm trying to buy the redskirts.

Snitters in trouble. I just got to get to $500 million. I'm a huge Charlotte Bobcats fan. He's like, I love Heineke. I'm worried the Pelicans might leave New Orleans. That's my team. Gail Benson, I might be able to get him.

I just need to get the 400. What do you think the NBA press release would be if they found out that the guy who owned the Pelicans was a black hat hacker? He's the Soy futures hacker. Listen, they've had almost as bad by teams. Was best time for a pee break. I mean, pick your spots with any of the scenes where he's with the sister.

So they do. Oh, see, I like a couple of Leanne scenes. But I mean, there's a couple once they start dating. We're like, all right, we're good. She's worried about. What do you think of the moment? But you would miss the moment where DeWy breaks in. They're just like curled up in bed.

And he's like, guess what? We got to go chase $76 million. Oh, you guys are dating? Yeah. Was there a better title for this movie? So it was initially titled Cyber? Mm-hmm. I think that would have been a little bit more communicative of what it was about.

You don't like Handsome Hacker? Save it for Horse Race. What about Ghostface? Ghost Man. Oh, Ghost Man. And I think that people would have just been like, is this a horror movie or like a... It's like new for Blumhouse? Yeah.

You excited for the new Nunn movie? Sure. Yeah, you excited for Exorcist? Just ashore from you? The Simmons family's completely in on the nun. Simmons family loves the nun. I liked the nun, and I'm looking forward to Nun too. It's like I think I've got a lot of, a lot riding on Exorcist being good. My mom watched the Pope's Exorcist.

That's a film movie. And she's like, I knew Russell Crow was in it, but I didn't know the person I'd been watching for the first 10 minutes of the movie was Russell Crow. What happened? That's my mom's take. Got to get her on the rewatch. Oh my God. What would she want to do? Can we do Big Chill with her? Well, I asked her. And what'd she say?

She said, I don't want to be in the rewatchables. I don't want to be in any podcast. I only did the one on your 50th birthday. I was like, if you could come on Big Chill, that would be amazing for all of us. I think when we do Big Chill, I might have to just bring equipment to her house and just do like a bonus, like deleted scene at the tail end of the pod after. Now here's my mom. What it was really like. Yeah. Yeah. I've had, we've had dinners where there was silence for a split second,

and I would just look at her and go, what happened to you? To the Joe Beth Williams? Did she find that funny? Yeah, she does. That's her movie. Best quote, I'm not sure there's any light at the end of this tunnel anymore.

Hemsworth says that to the sister. I'm strong. I mean, you're never going to get me to go away from my, do my own time, not the institution. See, to hold on to who you are. in there, you dedicate yourself to a program, you work out your body and your mind. He's doing it. He's just like studying Jimmy Con and Thief. Yeah.

Getting ready for that. You get that tattoo on my back. Do you have an SAS hottest take award? I didn't really for this one, partially because it takes so much brain power to just to understand what's happening in this movie. Did you have one? I didn't. This isn't really a hot take, but I don't think this is even close.

to be Michael Mann's worst movie. Do you think Public Enemy's this? Yeah. That movie just doesn't work and Depp's bad in it and I just don't like watching it. Yeah. But I think a lot of people

mention this one. Casting what ifs couldn't find any. Could you? None. Ruffalo, Han, Rubeneck Partridge, overacting award. They knew and they let it happen.

Don't you call me, lady! I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it out of God! This and me. Keep me out. I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart. Fuck you.

I think that there is an argument to give all of these to Richie Koster as Kassar. That he gets overacting in a great way. Dion Waiters. Oh, he sweeps it? Like it he got? Yeah. And gets that guy. Not to say that I didn't do my homework.

I have other nominees. Yeah. I like where you're going with that. Well, best that guy. John Ortiz. Is John Ortiz? I think it's William Mappathor who's in... So I had him run down as Tom Cruise's brother.

Yeah. Because he's Tom Cruise's brother. Do you know that? Craig? He's his cousin. Oh, it's his cousin? I thought it was his brother. Hey, you know that, Craig?

This guy, that's Tom Cruise's brother right there. Is his cousin? Yeah. Oh, I always thought it was his brother. Yeah. This guy from lost. He might be dining out on the brother thing, though. so who knows.

York von Waggington as Sadok Had him as well. Dion is Vio Davis eligible or no? She's in a lot I think she's in most of the first half of the movie. So what would you do? For Dion, I would do

Holt. Yeah, I agree. Recasting. Yes, let's have the Hathaway conversation. At this point, DiCaprio is too old. right in 15 this is a year before revenant he's too old

it's it's Hemsworth with an Australian accent and look the we're gonna have nitpick later where it's like that guy was too jacked to be a hacker he's too fucking handsome there's no way he was just sitting in front of a computer but maybe go the other way maybe he was just a scrawny skinny guy forever

and when he got to the joint he really like beefed up seeing it happen. Yeah. I watched my son put it on 25 pounds in like three months. Like, I'm not willing to rule anything out. But I think it's somebody like him.

Like, I do think there needs to be some physicality. Sure. I think Renner would have been interesting, but might have been too old. Oh, that's a cool shout. Yeah. Might have been too old at this point,

but it's like 2009 Renner range. The other one I was thinking, Craig's going to be happy. Is Teller too young? at this point. So he's been in jail for eight years. How long has he been in prison for? I think we're supposed to think, yeah, this guy, he came out in 2002 and started hacking.

And so he's been, he's probably like mid-30s, so probably too old for Teller. Yeah, it's like, is it Jillon Hall? Driver? Driver. Well, obviously, Mike loves driver. It's probably Driver. Yeah. Because I could buy Driver as a hacker, but he's also kind of kick-ass.

He's got his guy. Yeah, like, driver's good. Love driver. Half a Center Research. We mentioned some of it. There's a lot of stuff about the composer, Henry Gregson Williams, who's got this on-screen credit,

but apparently they just didn't use really any of his music, only a few things, and he's really upset about it. And there's, like, long quotes about, it's weird to get credited for something you didn't do. Man, just kind of hero balled that it sounded like. Yeah. He's like, he's like, Harry Gregson Williams.

just set me a pick and then go over to the corner So it's deeper than that You know about Harry Gregson Williams Facebook update when he saw the movie, right? Right, well, tell the audience. Well, no, it's like,

so Harry Gregson Williams did the score saw the movie and was just like, that's not my music and did like a whole Facebook post about it and was like, I'm now one of like the many composers

that has had their work chopped and diced by Michael Mann but Michael Mann was basically like this is my favorite quote about this. In the end, it's the film and my vision that dictate which music can use is how. If a composer wants to have his music stand alone,

he should be a recording artist and let his work contest in that arena. He's such a dick, I love it. He's such a prick. Post it on SoundCloud. He's definitely one of those directors where people get asked to work for them and they do the,

you know, Michael's Michael. They say the name twice. He's definitely a doctor. double-nameer. Apex Mountain. Oh, wait, I had one more thing for this for HavS Internet. The lady who managed Google's

Information Security Engineer team said, quote, the most accurate information security film I've ever seen. Also explains why it was $70 million of made 19 because I'm not sure what the competition was

for information security film action movies. Probably not a long list. How many hacker movies have there been? Angelina made one. Redford made one. Yeah. Matrix is kind of a hacker movie, but not after the first 20 minutes. Apex Mountain.

Hacking on screen, obviously. You'd have hacking on screen for Apex Mountain? In this movie, yeah. We haven't done better with hacking? I don't know. I think it's pretty cool. What about hackers with Robert Redford, River Phoenix? Sneakers. Sneakers. That's pretty good, yeah.

But that's like back in like the dial-in era. I really only had soy futures and Hamgy Park restaurant As Apex Mountains Yeah, that's it That's all I got Best Racehorse name Black Hat or Ghostface

I like Ghost Man Ghost Man Or Ghost Face Picking Nits Chris sounds were way too handsome To be a hacker I mean you could take that to the end I have a huge picking knit for the ending

Which I've seen more than once There Nicholas and Sadak they're talking to each other but it's this huge cultural event it's crazy it's loud there's people he's like really far away

like he's like 50 yards away and he's like you thought you could get away with it there's just no way anyone hears anyone there's a bunch of things it's really bad with like what audio people can hear one of my favorite parts is when they're in the chopper after

DeWai's caught Hathaway with his sister and they're just like switched to to the private channel so that we can talk about this. Right. I can't believe you're dating my sister.

Yeah. That scene's not great. That's a good picking nits scene. The, yeah, and then all the other nits we've picked. Do you have any other ones? Just like, they seem entirely prepared

for the specific wounds he's about to get inflicted with at the end of the movie where she's like, I'm going to run to the drugstore and get some rubbing alcohol and gauze pads because you're definitely going to get shot

with a machine gun and we're going to need it. And I guess, like you just learn the stuff in prison, which is amazing. But his thing with this, you know, he's got like the scarf for the neck wound. And then he's got all the magazines. And he's just like, lives on. That's how I'm going to the Dodger game tonight with you.

We're a scarf from my neck. I have magazines attached to my chest. Yeah, I think we hit all the nip picks. We probably didn't go quite hard enough on how just replacing audio for the first 25 minutes of a movie because you've decided something should be in a different spot. It's just really weird for a movie that costs $70 million. I know we did, we did best quote, but I wanted to bring another category back because it's a Michael Mann movie. A book about medals award for belatedly best quote or exchange. Yeah. So when they're in the Korean restaurant

and then the chef or whoever, the waiter comes up to them and is like basically like if you're not going to order anything else, you got to get up. And Hathaway looks up and he goes, you're really hurting for space because there's no one else in the restaurant. I've been saying this to myself in my head because now in LA when you go in to any restaurant and you're like table for two please and it's an empty restaurant the host inevitably like a

hmm what can I do what can I do could you get up in 47 minutes right and you're just like yeah you're really you're really hurting for space yeah they don't want to give the foretop to the two people yeah it is a weird trend I've noticed that

because I think everybody has digital reservations now you're right but when you You walk in and you're just like, there's not a single fucking person in this place. If you come in right before the dinner rush and all those tables are reserved on Resi. And they're like, we can put you in this shelf. You can just sit in there and you can eat with your hands and you're like, oh, cool, thanks. We went to a place and there was an outdoor table that we wanted, but it had like a reserve. And we're like, can we sit there?

It's like, that's reserved. Yeah. Had the entire dinner. Nobody ever sat at the table. And then we're leaving. And I said to my wife, like, can I just be a dick and mention how nobody sat down the table? Just say, no, no, forget it.

Don't. But nothing is more annoying than that. Because then it just makes you not want to go back to the place. It's the service industry. They're serving us. They're making us want to go back. It makes me want to go back to go to the restaurant and put your name down. And then it's Thunderdome.

You know what I mean? Let's just, I'm going to get a drink. You said it's 30 minutes. I'll wait 30 minutes and then I'm going to sit down. But I don't like making a reservation two weeks in advance and showing up. and they'll be like, hmm, can you sit in this flower bed? Is that okay? So, so when we go to, uh, Hamji Park,

create town, I hope they're like, we're just going right in. And we're like, hey, put down Ryan for two. Craig, we're eating there. Don't think we're not. And Chris is going to look up at the cameras and then go in the back for reasons unclear. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all blackcast are untouchable. Any of the first three. any of them.

So let's talk it out. Prequel, he's just in jail. Yeah, it's, it's shot caller with the hackers. Great. And how cool would it be? What if he tried to hack his way out of jail? But I would rather have him stay in jail. I think I just came up with a movie.

Where he's like digitally unlocking doors and stuff like that. That would be interesting. But he's basically got rudimentary equipment. The fact is, is that like when he's sitting there and there's like all that ruckus going on in the cell block. And he's got his headphones on. You're like, did he make those headphones? this would be badass to watch him make headphones, to watch him like top off these guys commissary and everything.

They remake Shawshank Redemption with Black Hat. Yeah. It's like Red's a hacker in this and tries to get out. I would watch that. The sequel, what's the sequel? I think the sequel is like they eventually have to go find Hathaway and another hackers come up and they bring him out of retirement. They go find him and they're like, we'll leave you alone.

Yeah, right. He's just living in like Wyoming with a day. dog. Prestige TV, probably the best scenario for this. Yeah, because then you get to fill out all the things that you're like,

oh, it feels like you rush through this. Yeah. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trao, Catherine Hahn, Steve Buscemi,

Sam Jackson, who clearly should have been in this movie, J.T. Walsh or Philip Bakerhall. Yeah, I was thinking, like,

would it be great if Wayne Jenkins was Hathaway's cellmate? And he was like, goddamn, Hathaway! I didn't know I was rooming with Steve Jobs Commissary, man

I got a Twix out of that Good luck I'm getting out of here man I'm going away a long fucking time big boy $90 Oh my God That'd be great They could have fit Bernthal on that I mean Bernthal

Oh Burnthal is the black cat guy Yeah he was famous enough at this point Come on that would have been sick Oh my God Bernthal Yeah, that's the one. Would you buy Bernthal as a hacker, though?

John Bernthal had a negative experience with Michael Mann. Right. So, I mean, this is just wishcasting for us. Just one Oscar who gets it. It's a tough one. This is one of the first times we might leave a blank. Not the composer. Can you imagine him getting the Oscar and going up and just being like, fuck Michael, man.

We should have put that in what stage the worst is venting on, Facebook. Yeah. About a professional grave. And thinking that you and me wouldn't find it eight years later. Right. Probably in answerable questions. I watch this.

I think this every time I watch a movie like this, is being like a really good hacker. And he's one of the best, right? This is like maybe he's not Nicola Yokic. But he might be Jason Tatum. Sure. Worst case scenario. He's top 10. Yeah, he's top 10.

Worst case scenario, he's at least as good as like Jaron Jackson as hacking. He's the top like 20 guy in the world at it. But is it this easy? Is it this easy to be a hacker where you just get, I go, you leave to go to the bathroom and I just go on your computer and I just type some stuff. I'm immediately in. I can access all your stuff, change all your settings. And I just have to have a couple prompts that I write my name next to.

I never got into hacking ever. and I was an only child with a computer and it still didn't understand it. I think that if you know the language of hacking, I think the learning the language is the hard part probably. Because like all that... So once you know the language, it's actually easy to just hack this shit and I wouldn't say that.

And I really have no idea. But I think the hard part is like learning how to code, right? And then after that, it's like a lot of it is your imagination. Craig, what are your thoughts here? Is hacking this easy? Hacking overrated? Underrated? I don't know.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more. days. I don't know what I think... Generation. Do you know any hackers? Were any of your friends like, oh, yeah, like... No. I mean, like, the biggest hacking thing growing up was jailbreaking your iPhone.

Right. Like, when you're on a plane and you log in, you know, if you're flying cross-country and they're like, hey, it's JetBlue. Hop on our Wi-Fi and you got to pay and put your password in. It just seems like the Nicholas character could just fly around on an airline. If he's got an Android phone, it seems like he could basically... He could just grab everybody's information on the plane, right? It's an unsafe internet connection.

So is that like too easy for him? I don't know. But at the same time, sometimes I'll be like, I'll say like something about maybe I should get a neck pillow at dinner. And then when I get home, there's neck pillow ads in my Instagram. So what are we talking about? I mean, that's real. Yeah.

Yeah. Jeff Chow and I were talking about a podcast, whether we should go after it. And like two hours later, he got fed an ad for the podcast. Yeah. That's creepy. You know what it is, Chris? It's the internet. It's all out there.

But yeah, it is fucking weird. Like, we are living in this world already, which makes a lot more sense than it did when this movie came out. What other in answerable questions you have? You are one of the top 20, the Jaron Jackson of hacking. I think, you know, and there might be some debate about where Jaron Jackson would land here. Yeah. You get out of federal prison on a make-or-break deal with the federal government.

and you immediately get into a pretty serious romantic relationship. Well, obviously it was horny. Horny for love, though. Horny for, like, it being a true. She was very cute. Yeah. But, like, I think that if I, I want to get into the Z1 Neo part here, which is, like, what do these guys do when there's not hacking to talk about, when they're not talking about,

like, where do we get Sadok and Qasar? I think the sex seemed like it was probably going to last for six, seven, eight months. I had another unanswerable about did Michael Mann with the Miami Vice character what was the actress who played the one

you liked the Mohitos? Isn't that gongli? Yeah. But she didn't know English and had to basically learn the English for each line. She knew English.

She knew English and I wonder if Michael Mann was just like, I'm going to run this back with another famous actress from an Asian country but who doesn't have to learn their lines just to see how this goes.

I don't know. I mean, he was very, like, enchanted with the idea of doing a film set in Hong Kong because of the background. Then he does Tokyo Vice, too. That's what I was going to suggest for the double feature is the first episode of Tokyo Vice. You're still maybe the only person who watched it. It's coming back. It's coming back.

Mike's not, but it is coming back. Craig, do you have any nitpicks or unanswerable questions? No. Okay. We'll get to you later. So best double feature, you have Tokyo Voice. The first episode of Tokyo Voice. I have sneakers.

I think you go sneakers and then this and just kind of watch how hacking gets a lot more complicated. Andy Reds a Watanay Award. What happened the next day? Probably he's in pain for a few weeks there because he just poured baking powder on gaping holes in different parts of his body. But yeah, I think. So what does he have? 50 million in the bank, something like that? Well, he theoretically has the 76 million that he took from stock.

Because he takes out some money. He takes out five grand, and it's like his balance was $49 million. Do you think they go to like Bali? I like the idea that at the end of all these techno thrillers, like the hero always escapes to like a tropical island. And it's like are James Bond, Jason Bourne and Nick Hathaway all on the same island? Right. Like running competing beach bars.

And the guys from running scared? Yeah. Yeah, nobody's like, I'm going to go to Boston. Nobody's going to know. I won't say Courtside at the South of the game. But I'll be like row five. Boston sand and gravel. You're right. I'll be in Charlestown.

Nobody will know. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I was thinking that transmitter that he finds in the plant would be cool. You always have Wi-Fi. Yeah. Yeah. Be a good one. Coach Finstock Award, Best Life Lesson.

I think Do My Time. Don't Let My Time Do Me is good. I agree. Who won the movie? Do you want to say Viola? I do. That's what I had written down. Because I think that if she's replacement level, this movie is not actually as good. I think she actually makes this movie pop.

I think she owns every scene and it actually makes me mad that she's not more of the movie. And I wish the sister had blown up instead of Vola and then it's the two of them together. It's the-R-Davis and Chris Hemsworth. The rest of the way. Those two and maybe it's even gets a little frisky at the end. My husband's dead. She's like, I'm a widow. Yeah.

You're handsome. Let's go to St. Bartz. You think they're in the same island with Gene Hackman from the firm where all his files are and the boat guy? Maybe that could be funny. This would be a great, this would be a great, like... Crime Island. Yeah, crime would be like a great cartoon where everybody's there. Like somebody's got a restaurant and a bar and just go.

And then basically at the end of the, like, the whole thing with the island is these guys are all like, oh, they pulled me back in. I got to go back for one more job. Oh, the trading places guys would be there too. Craig, what you think? Black Hat. I like you guys parsing over this random movie. This is me like going over Kenny Pickett's like preseason. It's like going so deep on this like Michael Man. It's Michael Man.

We're running out of Michael Man movies. You know, look, I watched this movie at midnight last night and I got to be honest. It was hard for me to stay awake. Yeah? Yeah. Because of the beginning or because of just in general you're like, what the fuck is happening? It's a lot of information. I wouldn't recommend it a midnight for.

It was the only time I could do it. It was so tech jargony and I was kind of like halfway third I was like all right I kind of know that this movie is just going to end with Chris Hemsworth fistfight in some dude

and eating him. That's one thing that's kind of I don't like it the whole movie is so techy and then he just like stabs the shit out of the guy. It's like I almost wish they incorporated like

the cyber hacking effect into actually taking down the guy rather than just like showing up and beating him up. Like he was hacking to blow him up I don't know it'd be cool yeah. Why if it's like he's on a flight and you hack the flight to go to a different location or like something to like...

Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, that's actually pretty good. Maybe that could be in the next black haircut. I don't know. Tax the airplane. Like when there's, there's actually, there's like no real skill in killing him. They just like show up. They just like call each other on the phone.

They're like, meet me. And then he beats him up. Yeah. Well, at first it's interesting because Hathaway's like no in person, only phone. And they're like, no, we have to do it in person. He's like, okay. And then he's like, now I'll put on all these. magazines and just stab this guy to death.

Yeah. We should have talked about this more. So when he knows, he knows they're just going to fight to the death, basically. Why does he have to do anything? Why can't he just leave with the $74 million? Because he wants to get revenge for Dwight and for Carol. The revenge was the $74 million.

I think because he's like, I don't, like, I'm losing my identity and you're the only thing that's ever been an adversary to me, so I need to like actually see you. That's my idea about it. One thing I will say, that is a definitive step. Sure. Yeah.

There's no need to go to replay on that. Right. That guy is out. He's not getting up. I forgot to mention that the ending with him, them walking, feels a little on the Miami Vice ending corner, which I think is really effective. And I didn't know if that was another intentional.

I think it's just like he has images, he has ideas, he has feelings that he likes to return to throughout his films. I also think basically the end of Manhunter. It's like going off into the same. sunset with this forbidden love that you've gotten free of the world from. There's like six minutes of like virtual digital shots inside of a microchip. I was like 10 seconding through that thing. I was like, man, we're back inside the chip.

Oh, you know when we did Man Hunter? It was it was like month one of the pandemic. That's why I don't remember it. I literally don't remember it. I think I blacked out for two months of the pandemic. It was it, U.M. In Fantasy? Yeah.

Yeah. Didn't on Zoom. Oh, really? No recollection. I'm going to have to listen to that one. I like Man Honor. I'm sure we had a great time off to listen to it. That's a good one.

C.R. A pleasure as always. Craig Rolebeck producing, as always. And we've got bangers the next two weeks. Do we? Yeah. Bangers. See you next week.