The Rewatchables - ‘Bloodsport’ With Bill Simmons, Shea Serrano, and Jason Concepcion

Episode Date: August 9, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Shea Serrano, and Jason Concepcion head to Hong Kong to fight alongside Frank Dux as they rewatch ‘Bloodsport’ starring Jean-Claude Van Damme, Donald Gibb, and Leah Ayres. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Go to Voodoo.com slash rewatchables. Sign up. Start watching it today. VUDU.com slash rewatchables. Coming up, my mind is ready, my heart's on fire. I'm going to push it over the wire. Perfect timing, tight as a drum. The final battle's already won.

Oh, no, I'm taking hold of every moment, given strength by the breath of life. Kumete. Kumete. Kumete. Bloodsport. Kermite. For centuries, the society of the black dragon

has sanctioned an ancient right of combat. Known as the Kumite. Al-iz! Open only to the world. World's most lethal warriors. It has never been won by a Western Earth. You are not Japanese. I can do it.

Now, for the first time, the true story of America's super agent, Frank Dukes, can be revealed. International martial arts sensation with John Claude Van Dam. In Bloodsport, the true story of the ultimate champion. All right, Jason, Cesarano is here. I would say this is one of Shea's five favorite movies ever. Absolutely. You have a poster in your office. I have a framed poster.

Listen, I bought a poster off of Amazon. It was $15. Oh, that's ceiling. And then I got it framed. Yeah. It was $400. And I absolutely was like, sure. You got to protect that thing.

Sure, I will pay $400 to frame and mat this poster. I also have an autographed picture of Chong Lee from Bloodsport. Oh, and a framed picture of Jean-Claude Van Dam from Bloodsport. Was he, did he autographed for? but as Chung Lee or as as Bolo Lung? It's scribbled on there. Somebody mailed it to my office and I fell in love with it. Wow, that's something.

Jason, how many times since 1988 have you been flicking channels and stumbled over at least 30 minutes? This is a Cinemax classic. Yeah. Cinemax action classic. I feel like as a person who would stay up late at night, I feel like you'd see this two to three times a month between the hours of 11 and 2 a.m. on Cinemax on a random Friday night. I wrote in 2014 What's the record for most times

Watching Bloodsport Even though it's not even showing in a movie network But a local network where they keep interrupting With bad commercials That's really became its legacy About 10 years ago It would just pop on You know, Spike

Spike's a good channel No, we'd be like, ah shit There's gonna be commercials I already own this on DVD or Blu-ray I'm gonna watch it You've got to watch that. And you're sitting through the spike commercials for a movie you have on DVD. Sometimes the commercials make it better.

And I don't know how that works, but sometimes they do. You get to be excited about a thing. And I don't know why it works that way. It's like if you get a junior baking cheeseburger from Wendy's, it comes with tomato on it already. I hate tomatoes. Yeah. But I order it with a tomato. I don't know why it's better.

It makes you appreciate the part of the burger you actually like. I think that's what it is. Do they make movies like this anymore, Jason? this specific type of movie. No. They don't make martial arts action movies starring weird bodybuilding Belgians anymore. They don't really make this kind of movie anymore.

Certainly not for, it feels like not for like an American market. Well, the thing that strikes me, as I watched it for the 137 time two nights ago, they feel like they're actually fighting in every scene. And I just come off from seeing Hobbs and Shaw, which Hobbs and Shaw is the classic. Carefully rehearsed, punch, punch, turn, punch, punch, everything's like this.

And in Blood's part, I'm like, did that guy actually die when Chung Lee knocked him out? Is he really dead? Did anybody write about him? Like, I have no idea what happened to those guys. Did the one guy break his leg? How much of it was real and fake? That was real.

The broken leg. He signed up for it. They said we have to break your leg. They're just like, you got to let Bolo stomp on your femur. No, they didn't have stuntman for the movie. No. That was like not a thing. And I know the one guy.

Really? Really. Wait, are you messing with me? No, because I got to, I got to talk about one scene where I think that there's a stuntman, but I'll let you continue. The one part in the movie when John Claude Van Dam elbows the guy in the mouth and knocks his tooth out. Like that really happened. Yeah. And he really got hurt in that situation.

But yeah, there were no stuntman. They were just going for it. So when Frank is running from Rollins and Helmer, right? Yeah. And they fall into the. disgusting waters, like, around Hong Kong. Yeah. I will swear to you that is not from behind.

That's not Forest Worker. It can't, it's, I feel like he was just like, I don't care who you get to do this, but I'm not getting in the toxic water. Good move. That's why he ended up winning an Oscar. I studied that scene several time. I think he got in the water, and that's why he got an Oscar.

He would have been nominated for this movie. It was like, yeah. It was worse than Leo sleeping inside the bear in the revenant. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand why they don't do fight scenes like this anymore. And maybe it's just the degree of difficulties too high. Maybe we're going to get into it. But they're like some of the greatest fighters of this era.

Because you had in victory, the soccer movie was Slice Stallone. They ended up using like some of the greatest soccer players from the early 80s in that movie. And Slice Stallone of Michael Cain, which is one of the funny things about it. In this movie, they're really getting some of the best guys. And then the guy who plays Chong Lee is the end of the dragon guy. And there's just a level of, this is not like, hey, the rock, we're going to teach you some moves. These are dudes that have been fighting since they were like nine. I can't speak for Van Dam.

I don't know when he started. I know he started the splits probably early. You got to do that early. When he was born, they just sat him down in the splits automatically. There's so much to love in this movie and we're going to get through all of it. And I almost just want to get to the categories. But it's a montage movie ultimately. And I feel like that's what we're missing now as we head toward the end of this decade is

the art of the montage is just out. Like, again, Hobbs and Shaw. They have a montage in it. They do have a montage. And it's fun. And it's like, guess what? I'm always going to enjoy a montage. Yeah.

Like, karate kid. That's a great point. When he knocks out that first kid or wins. And it starts. Yeah. And there's like, you're the best, Daniel. And then Joe Estabino comes in. And it's like, this can go on forever.

I would watch a whole movie that was just a montage. Right, right. You know what else is great about that, that kind of style, that structure? This movie is a brisk minute, hour, 32 minutes. Yeah, it's brisk. It's brisk. Yeah. It just flies by.

And Hobbs and Shaw is like, how long is that movie? Like two... Three and a half hours. No, come on. No, no, no, no, but it's like two... It's long. It's too long. Yeah.

They needed 40 minutes to set up the fact that these guys weren't going to get along, but they had to. Right. Bloodsport, it's like, there's a tournament, people die. Let's go. Yeah. Here we go. They're cleaning the stadium. They're wiping the blood off, making them mat nice and nice clean.

All right, let's talk about Van Dam because when I did my action hero championship belt, I don't think I ever gave him the belt. But he occupies. Is that how you pronounce it too, Von Dom? Van Dam. I've always said Van Dam. Me too. But that's just.

You're outvoted. Two to one. I think he says Van Dam. That's okay. He also says a bunch of other weird shit. So. So his IMDB. He goes here, Bloodsport, Black Eagle and Cyborg.

Any thoughts on those? Seaborg? Cyborg, thumbs up. Yeah. Black Eagle, he was barely in. Kickboxer. Love kickboxer. Thumbs up.

Really good one. Super hardcore, though. Lionheart, death warrant, double impact. At some point, it just became a joke with the, even the titles of the Van Daum movie, Van Damme, Van Dam. Universal Soldier, nowhere to run. Universal Soldier is the best split. You think so?

Which one is, which one do you like? I let's split. I didn't know we do this to sort of. Oh, actually. Is that a category? Should we hold it? Okay, yeah, we'll hold it. Let's hold it.

Let's hold it. But then around like 93 range, he kind of went up a level. And I thought his acting actually got better too. But he does. He has gotten better every year. Hard target, time cop, street fighter. And then my favorite one other than this one, sudden death. Mm-hmm.

I really like sudden death. It's a good one. It's arguably a hockey movie. there's long hockey scenes, but he ends up playing goalie, which is just the incredible leap of faith of any 90s action movie. He puts on the equipment and plays goal. And goes for it. In a Stanley Cup game for the Penguins.

That's huge. It's seemingly being televised. They don't care. But yeah, at some point, he just kind of became poor man Schwarzenegger, right? Is that fair? Where do you have them? How do you have them ranked in the Pantheon? Well, I think if we're just doing like personal preference, he's number one for me.

He's my guy. Over Arnold? Over Arnold? Definitely. Really? Really? I was shocked by this. Arnold has better movies.

You know, Predator, fucking running man. Total Rico. Yeah. Like, he's, you can't argue his IMDB page. He's got the better movies. But we're just talking about we're going to make a movie and we're going to drop some guys in it. Who do you want to see? I always want to see Van Dam over everybody.

Or Van Dam. Or Van Dam. Either one of them. Either one of them. Give me either one of them. me either one. But I think he's just a little bit cooler. I think he's definitely more handsome, which is like,

I like that part. I just feel more drawn to him. He occupies the same place in the late 80s, early 90s that Chuck Norris had before him, where it's like, all right, we have enough money for one actor, one star, and the rest of the movie

really doesn't matter, and you kind of know the beats of it each time, and you can put him on a poster and people will come. And that was the case whether it was people going to the theater or renting the movie for eight years from. Yeah. Yeah. Until the Dennis Rodman movie, it kind of started to flip. That was probably a mistake.

And I really like about him that he's like a fighter. Swartzenegger's not a fighter. Schwarzenegger's just going to fucking pound you. He's just big. Yeah, I was trying to think what made me love Van Dam. It's, there was kind of a wow factor with some of his stuff where. Yeah. Stallone, Schwarzenger, Stallone and Rocky Four, I guess, when he's doing some of the training stuff where it's like, wow. Jesus. Stallone is above Schwarzenegger, too, for sure. Yeah, but Van Dam, like, that scene when he's in the rope doing the split, and his mentor's like, cranking it.

It's fucking incredible. When he's between the chairs, you're just like, what the hell? Are you serious? Yeah, you've never seen some of this stuff in movies before. It's really incredible. And he really came along at a time, too, when it was like that kind of really incredibly muscular, super physique

kind of action star was kind of getting pushed aside because of like the diehard movement, you know, and like the normal guy kind of action star, like Christian Slater and Broken Arrow, that kind of show.

That's a good call. It's like if you're not ready for like Bruce Willis to be your action hero, try this guy. He's a slightly smaller Stallone. Right. And he really, he thrived in that era.

Like he really came up at the same time as like Seagal who Seagal is just so groundbound and like stationary. Like his moves are all like the guy comes at him and then he spins him around

but he never moves. His legs never move. Van Dam's flying all over the place doing splits. He's like rolling. He's jumping up in the air. He's jumping over the ref. Very athletic.

There's a lot to watch. I always felt like Seagal was like the Dwight Howard of Action Heroes. Can you explain this? Big, physical, kind of stiff. He was going to get to 20 and 15.

I don't know if you could win the title with them, but you know, you could definitely make the finals with him. Yeah. But if he's fighting Van Dam, I just feel like Van Dam's killing him. Yeah. The smart thing that he did was, he was like,

oh, you know what I should do? I'm going to be the guy who breaks your arm. Yeah, I'm going to break your arm. That'll be me. And that's all he did for his whole career. I'm going to break your arm or I'm going to flip you into like a soda machine. Yeah.

He was just moving his hands a bunch and you thought he was doing some shit. He was just doing this while you're standing in front of him. Like, oh, he's about to do something. something, and then you fucking grab you and snap your arm. I think from an unintentional comedy standpoint, you could make real strong cases for either. It's kind of the bird magic of unintentional comedy,

the late age, early 90s. Seagal had the fucking ridiculous ponytail. And he's dressing in the karate robes and just really trying to act in this little thing. And poor Van Dam just couldn't act. It got better as it went along. But in Bloodsport, you're watching it going,

how do they not do like one more take of this song? How did they get directors like, cut? Got it. You know that it's an issue when Donald Gibb is blowing the damn off the street. Oger. Blowing him off the screen. I'm sitting there going,

why did Donald Gibb get more run? He's good in the movie. He's great in the movie. To tie this back to Schwarzenegger, I felt the same way. When you watch Escape Plan, and the Schwarzenegger and Stallone finally, And Stallone is actually acting, and Schwarzenegger is just a fucking cardboard cut out and his mouth is moving.

The same thing here. But yeah, give is good. Like, during a video game scene. I love that scene. Wait a minute. Hold on. Is he doing this? Let's get to the categories because we have too much to discuss.

Budget of around $2 million made $65 somehow. $65 million. That's like solid. I feel like that $2 million is like inflated. Like a lot of that went into like shady pockets. feel like when they filmed that in Hong Kong. Yeah, it was really like probably like five million. Yeah.

Two million and then three million under the table. It made 65 million. It's, I can't imagine how much it's made in cable residuals and stuff like that. This is a movie. It's a $100 million movie. This in Roadhouse have been on for 30 solid years. Yes. Unabated. Roadhouse is on right now.

It's on like Cinemax or Showtime. When is that rewatchable? It just will never end. When is that? Cocktail, these movies from the late 80s, they've just now had three decade long runs. All right. We'll take a break. We'll get to the Catibus.

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Luminary.com slash Simmons for two months of free access, luminary.com slash Simmons. Cancelain time. Terms apply. All right, so most rewatchable scene, I basically just put down the script for the movie. Okay. Yeah.

But I'm just going to order here. The opening credits are really great. Yes. Because it's got the music kind of gets you into it. It sets it up. And it has, I wrote down all these things I liked. And Bolo Young, Jung, Jung. I think it's Jung.

Bolo Jung is Chong Lee, where he gets, you know, in movie credits, where the last guy, it's like a little extra special. They gave him that little shine. They show the different guys warming up, and Chong Lee's just kicking giant ice blocks. Yeah. Just to get him. Just to get him destroying them. Yeah.

Like, how long does it take to get a giant ice block ready? And they carry it over and hang it, like, two hours, seven hours? Yeah. Chongley's like, yeah, set that up. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Knocks him out. The guy who, he jumps on a tree. Yeah.

And they cut to him running. And then he's like the worst cut ever. And then he's on the tree. And there's coconuts now. He's chopping. Yeah, yeah. Incredible. A monkey guy.

There's a guy doing MMA in front of this group of, they seem like island natives. They're holding torches and they're just kind of cheering them on. I don't know what's going on there. And then it cuts to ogre as Ray Jackson. And he's like, I heard you can get killed in that Kumete. And Ray Jackson's like, oh, really?

And so they set him up. And then it cuts to that. How would you describe the giant guy who ends up Bear Hug killing that one guy? Oh, man. What do we call him? Giant smiling bear hug guy. That's his name listed on the IMD page.

I'm looking at it right now. He's just throwing something heavy that bowls two guys over and they're like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. He's got that incredible move where he just takes a guy and breaks his back like over his knee. Like he's snapping a twig. Yeah, why are you smiling? You're a murderer. So that just sets the tone we get to meet everybody.

I don't know. I can't think of much more I'd want from opening credits. No, we're going to make a lot of fun. about the movie, like, it's kind of a bad movie when you're like really watching it. Be careful. But they do some really, really smart things when they're making the movie. This is like really powerful storytelling, just setting you up with all the pieces. You're like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know all of these guys.

I'm going to see them later on. And they're going to be substantial characters. And my guess is that ice block guy is going to be a factor. And they're the guy who's crushing ice blocks with a karate game. And they're getting like, oh, this is where they're all going. I get it. I understand now. Yeah.

So the next one I have, I just really like young JVD for some reason when he's training with the blindfolds. And they're doing the rope. The rope. I wrote it down as rope Jesus cross. I don't know what else we would call it. But. And then he's like and pulls himself up and it comes to the mentor going, he's impressed.

Was that what you were supposed to do in that situation? I don't know. Are you supposed to pull yourself back up? I think he invented that one. I know. I'm not really sure what. the end game to that was supposed to be. The real Frank Deuce

said that this device is a real thing is called drawn and quartered. And like, he said... That's the problem. He said that they put him in it for real and like, whatever. But, yeah, I would like one of those machines. What happens to normal people who

are in that machine? You're just every groin muscle tears immediately. You split in half like a... Your legs come off. Like, when you do the chopsticks and you just pull them... Yeah. That's what happens to your body. Up to your chin.

You're just dang. It's got to be like top five on the set. People must have been like... Yeah, why are we doing this? Also, like... Is this guy going to die? Yeah, and also, can we, like, how do you insure this? You're like, we're forcing children into splits.

This is... And also, yeah, but like, can we, like, is this okay? Like, they're implying that they did it as children. Which is a lot. They do the same thing in a kickboxer, except they lay him down. He's on his back and they're cranking them. Next one is, do you like the mentor, by the way? Is that the kind of mentor you'd want?

Absolutely. Yeah. They borrowed him from seven different movies that we could probably list right now, including I think he was in editor of the dragon. He was the mentor. This is a small scene, but I like JVD's invitation being honored by breaking the bottom brick and the five brick stack. I think it's just a really important scene.

I love in the movie, in the movies when they like established, We have to do a thing to show you how cool this guy is. And that's what they do with him. And Ray Jackson reacts like he just like unwrappedoplasma TV or something. It's pretty impressive. It is. But Chongley, not impressed. Not at all.

When you watch it, even now when I just rewatched right before we recorded this and they do that, it's like a cool shot from the bottom up. And you see the face that Jean-Clauvantan makes. His eyes get gigantic and he's like, boom. And then the brick explodes. And you're like, I think he really did that. Even now, I feel like he probably, I think he really did that. You know, the thing about the bricks, though. But brick not hit back.

That is true. That is true. I mean, but still, I don't want to fight a brick. How would physically, how would that work? How did that move work? Busting those bricks like that. How do you do it? You're just quickly putting so much pressure that that bottom bricks just like, I'm, I don't know.

This is some sort of law of physics. I'm sure. There's like the transfer of energy. Jason, how would you compare Van Dam to 11 and 7 when she has to make shit move around? Well, obviously, Von Dam much more impressive because that's just the physical power embodied within him that has nothing to do with, you know, cutting edge science experiments or, you know, interdimensional forces. So 11 has some PD help, you think? Yeah, absolutely, some help. some cutting edge help

multi-billion dollar weapons program help Jean-Cla van Dam that's all that's all that's all him and we're blowing right past the fact

that he hit the top brick and that one didn't break or the second or the third he just that's really impressive do you watch stranger things Shay I do

do want to see my impression of 11 in season three I don't but go for it that's it that's all I got you think she could I would also

if I was Couldn't she also like telekinetically hold the blood in? You would think. You can only do so much stuff. Also carry a handkerchief. Shoot a car into the sky. Or put a piece of toilet paper up there. Just blank it.

Next rewatchable scene. Y'all are really taken for granted the fact that she's moving stuff with her mind. Oh, yes. I know. Calling this rewatchable almost isn't fair to the montage. The first round of fights where you really get a feel for, oh, okay, so the people are there.

There's the weird council over here. What do we call them? I don't know if they're part of the Black Dragon Fighting Society or not. They're there as a like... The executive council of... Representative. Whatever.

And then the really cool ring that kind of bends down. And then everybody's just fighting in there for like six minutes. And we have Ray Jackson wins his first one. And then taunts Chong League. Well, listen. Tactical error.

This is... Don't wake up the sleeping giant. I disagree. Pre-saging Mountain and the Viper from Game of Thrones. Listen, when you get that win when it's in sight, you got to finish. What are you doing? Right? Well, you're doing, this is later.

This is later. I'm saying about the first fight. It just bothers me so much. Just finish the job. Finish the job. No, I like him talking shit immediately. You like him setting the tone with Chongley, I'm not afraid of you. Because Chong Lee did it first.

Yeah, that's true. When Frank broke the brick, Chongley starts talking shit. Ray already knows. Ray Jackson knows, like, this is part of his game. He's a shit talker. Let me see what happens when I go at him. And he looked a little nervous. Are we sure he should have been called Ray Jackson?

He didn't really feel like a Ray Jackson to me. What does he look like? I don't know. It seems, where do you think Ray Jackson was from? I had all these questions later we're doing now. What state was he? He's definitely from somewhere where there's like a mountain nearby. Ooh, like, yeah.

Like Wyoming? Yeah, yeah. What if he was named Sully? Sully. Like Sully Jackson. No, I don't like it. No? That don't sound strong enough.

What would you go with? I like Ray Jackson. I like Ray Jackson. What was he trained in? What was his martial art? Well, I have that later. He does not do a single M.MA move in the movie, unfortunately. No.

Ray's brute strength. Yeah. You have to take him down. Old school. We have a. JVD knocks the guy out in what, 12 seconds.

12 seconds. And leading to Ray going, first round of Kuma Tate, broke the fucking world record. Yeah. He's a good friend. He's a really good friend. Really good loyal.

And then the song, bloodsport fight to survive. Had that in the background. Would you put it above or behind you're the best by Joe Esposito? Yeah, you're the best is better, right? But Kumae is,

don't sleep on it. Yeah. Um, next one, the later round of fights. So we're not in the semifinals yet, but they have another montage because they're like, you know what? You know what people love montages? They know what they, they know how to make an action movie. Yeah. Some highlights from this one.

Chong Lee just breaks Swan Paredes. Swan Paredes just gets crushed, annihilated. They might, didn't die, but probably, uh, isn't doing this again. Frank Ducks. Frank Dukes is ignoring that invite? I'm okay. Tough look for Zhao Gomez, the guy who's like very slowly goes. Oh, yeah, it doesn't say anything.

And then does the slow motion throat slit and Van Dam's like, all right, cool. And then beats him in like 10 seconds. It's five seconds that it takes after. As soon as he has a fight, kicks him, the guy falls down, he kicks him off the mat. Which should have been a new world record, but nobody talks about that world record. The timekeeping there, I don't see anybody with a stopwatch. Like, how are we keeping time? There somebody was like that.

I felt short. I don't know. I think that's a world record. There's no clock. There's no way to actually know. Yeah, there's no clock. You're right. And they do it at like not 12 seconds, 12.2.

Yeah, they were just like, I don't know. That felt really short, guys. And how did they get it so fast up on the scoreboard? Those guys were working hard back there. Pinway Park doesn't get the runs up that fast. So that one has those two. And then the battle of smiling fat bear hug guy against crawling around guy

who's a complicated character that's we're going to get to it later. That's a tough one. There's some gloomer hope for the crawling around guy initially and then makes the mistake of the jump. Yeah, you don't want to close the distance. Smiling fat bear hug guy gets him

and then that's it. And then JVD avenges with, in my opinion, probably the second best fight in this whole movie, JVD against smiling fat bear hug guy. It's a great one. Where he does the stomach punch and you think it's over?

Right. Yeah. Great slow-mo. Boom. And he does like the shake after. Like this is why we, this is why they did the thing with the brick. So you can show us what's happened.

Yeah, yeah. He just destroyed his, his like intestines. It went through, it went through, didn't damage any of the material up here. But then it went inside and it like broke his bottom vertebrae. But he walks backwards and then he's fine.

Shakes it off and then Van Dam nails him. But there's no way they fate that. They didn't have CGI back then. No, he hit him. No, he hit it. They were like, Hey, so

This is the part where We're John Claude's going to He's going to really do it here. You cool with that? Are we good? How many takes you think that was? Oh, that was one.

Do you think? Yeah, we didn't get it. Can we do it again? The lighting wasn't great. A little out of focus when you dropped down and came over him. Can we get it again? You okay?

You need to breathe for a second? Hey, when your liver is going into your vertebrae, can you just step back? back there. That guy's name is Pumala. P-U-M-O-L-A. Pumala, the giant. Next re-watchable scene,

Chong Lee Changle versus Ray Jackson. This is very tough. You know how it's going to end. It's like goose dying and top gun. I know how it's going to play out. I don't want him to celebrate. Also celebrating just a terrible idea.

Why are you doing that? You landed one good blow against Chong Lee. Right. He was shook. Yeah. All he'd do is push him off. He was right there on the edge. He's down and just fucking give him a shove.

I like that he shouts that he's dead. He's dead. He's not dead. He's just kneeling down a little bit, Ray. I'm just, before we even get to the rest of the category, this is my favorite scene because especially Van Dam, the acting. That's the Oscar. That's the Oscar.

That's the Oscar. He's being held back. We just watched him punch the fifth brick in a five brick pile. Now, he's being held back by like the 5-7-10-pound guy somehow can't get out. No! No! No! It does that whole thing.

It's spectacular. And then also, it seems like Ray Jackson is just murdered. Apollo Crete's though. Yeah. It's pretty bad. See, kind of surprised he came out of that. Tough guy. Well, I think that's why they did the thing earlier when he has a brick, when he breaks

with his head. Yeah. I mean, like, okay. He's got a very, very hard skull. And then I get three more. A lot of brick. foreshadowing. The semifinals, what are the gambling lines at this point?

At a curiosity. Who do you have favored? You don't know anything. You've been going to Kumate this whole time. By the semifinals? We have Frank Ducks first Paco, Frank Duke's first Paco. And we have Chong Lee versus Chong Lehmung. Yeah. Who ends up being Chongley still the favorite. Chongley kills a guy.

That's Chung Lee Meng, the guy who dies. Both Duke's and Chongley are massive, massive favorite. I think Chong Lee's like a minus 600 favorite. Yeah. He's a He's way up there. Everybody that fights Chong is like either dead or in the hospital. Yeah. And both of them have like the top three fastest knockouts in the history of Kumenta.

And it's in this tournament. It's a powerhouse. It's a powerhouse. This might be my favorite section, actually. So Frank Dukes against Paco is just a great fight. Good battle. Wonderful fight. I like Paco.

Paco's my fucking guy. Paco's my guy. He was the guy I pretended to be. I had my hands up here with like my sisters. Like, do you want to let's go? It's like a mooie tie kind of move. Yeah. But he's also got like this kind of like,

Vince Carter, like, starting the motorcycle kind of feel to it. He's revving his leg up. And then when he gets, when Frank shakes him a little bit, he just adds like a little bit of a, like a dancing vibe to the shoulders. Yeah, he's just like a very stylish fighter, fun to watch. So I'm grouping that together with Chung Lee kills a guy. Because that's not very long. Couple things.

Incredible performance by the ref, who never has a word. But his disgust and horror is just accurately portrayed. Why is he out there? There appear to be no rules. No, none. Well, I think if you quit, I think you need the ref to hear the quitting part, I think would be the only reason. And maybe it seemed like as part of the rules, if you fell off the stage thingy, you lost. Yeah.

Which we never, even when he goes blind at the end, we never had to worry about anyone flying off the stage. the crowd chaining chung lee and then the council turning and the crowd quickly going oh this is bad and then everybody just turning their backs on chong lee basically including van dam who's learning the customs like on the fly i guess and chongley does things like he's just he's mad yeah chung he got you guys suck they don't appreciate you can't kill a guy here in kumitay anymore come on they don't appreciate his like he's an excellent fighter he's a wonderful showman he was he was really going for it and what i really like about Chong Lee, who's my favorite character in the movie,

is he was ratcheting it up every fight. Every fight got a little bit worse. Every single fight. With Dukes is the final target. I'm going to knock you out. I'm going to break your leg. I'm going to stomp on your head to try to kill you. Now I'm going to kill you for, like, it was getting worse.

He's like a Darth Vader figure too. Like, he's on the screen less than you think, and he hardly says anything. Seven minutes. But his, his, he's like cast this huge shadow over the entire. movie, you just feel him coming. I always feel like, I still watch dressing because of my son, the way they he used Brock Lesnar in the WW

is how, it's like barred from Chongli. Right. Where he's not in there that much. He doesn't do that many matches, but when he's in there, you're just aware of him the whole time. Doesn't say much. Like Jason said, even when he's not there, you feel it. You feel his presence. You know that that showdown is coming, and there's nothing you can do about it.

And then that ends with, you are next. which might have been dubbed, unclear if the words were actually matching his lips on that? This is a great question. I think he said it. They might have dubbed every line he had in this. It's not out of question.

Then Frank versus Chong Lee. So many twists and turns. What was in the blinding powder? This is a great question. Step on the probably unanswerable questions early. What was in there? Acid? Salt.

It's a salt peel. Why did he go completely blind? He didn't. When they show it from his eyes, it's just, like, blurry. Sure. But then again, like, when he has hung down, like, he's got to, he's, like, moving his head around, you know? He's listening. He's listening.

I know, but, like, come on. He seems completely blind. Well, he might have been hamming it up at that point. Yeah, he was going for it. You think it's, so it's salt. I think so. I feel like I read that somewhere that it was just a salt pill. Salt was some assing.

Incredible. Incredible, incredible, slow motion freak out. Yes. By Vine Dam. When you see that part, I feel like that was a, that's the moment when you have to say, like, he might be, he might be able to figure this acting thing out. Because that was like a very pure, very emotional moment. He was really hurt. Even now, all these years later, every time I watch that scene, I feel bad for him in that moment.

He had worked so hard. He had trained for so long. And he felt like this moment is getting stolen from me because this guy cheated. Like Tim Duncan in Game 6, 2013. It's not enough that you're allowed to kill me if you want to, but now you're going to fucking cheat me. And he was really hurt, and that was a good moment. Again, where's the council?

Where's any kind of official? Somebody should have seen that. Come on. What are we doing out here? It doesn't seem like there are a lot of rules in the Kuma tag. It's very tough down there. Really good acting by him. And also, good slow-mo during an era where we hadn't really figured out slow-mo.

effectively at all, and the slow-mo is good. I was going to say, is that their most expensive day, like the day that they had to use the slow-mo film and the slow-mo camera? They've got this one special Hong Kong camera for one day and a lot of people got paid off, and that's how I played out. And then incredible comeback. I would say one of the better sports movie

comebacks of all time with the chips are down flying back. And then the last scene, Van Dam goes to see Ray Jackson in the hospital. Who's better? He's got this giant comical bandage with blood on him. Leading to, he returns his Harley Davidson bandana. Ray holds his hand. Anytime, any place, anywhere, you need me, I'm there. Good friend.

And cuts to the girlfriend who's just like looking like ready to cry. Girlfriend's a little strong, I think. Lady friend. Yeah, who looks near tears. Cutting to Van Dam, Van Dam. fighting off tears. They're still holding hands and he goes, I love you, my friend.

Me too. And it's like a moment. It is a moment. This is one of the worst acted movies, probably of the 80s, and that's like a great scene. It gets me emotional. That scene is more emotional

than anything Steven Seagall ever did. Oh, he's way above him. Yeah, that's when he's like, I'm taking this corner. Yeah. I wonder this when I did the action movie thing. when they do that scene and all of a sudden

they turn into De Niro and Pacino in heat inexplicably. What's it like on the set? Just chills. Cut! Oh my God, guys, that was it. Cut? Yeah.

Wow! That was great! Amazing guys! I wonder if... So they never shoot movies like in order. Yeah. They probably did that scene early on.

And I wonder for the rest of the movie. Everyone was like, what the fuck? Do what you did before. Come on, man, damn. That is my favorite scene in the movie, But I think the most rewatchable is, uh, is Chongley killing a guy. What are you going? It's just so horrifying.

Most rewatchable, I'm going to go with just any of the fight montages. I think the final fight is just incredible. Five-way tie for you? Yeah. It's, they're all great. This movie is really good at knowing what people want to see and getting you to that point. Like, backstory, let's do it quick and get into the fighting. You know, the fighting, let's show you all the different styles of these guys. And then how about a little John Claude Van Dam and a speedo?

You want that too? Great, we'll give that to you. But I think it's, for me, it's the final fight. It's iconic. Shea? You know what? I'm going different than both of you all. I like the introduction.

It's not even on your list. The introduction of Chongli for his first fight. Oh. We get the, his name comes up on the cards. We get that. Yeah. The bad guy noise. Yeah.

And you're like, oh shit, here we go. He gets up out of his seat. And then, uh, Lynn, Victor Lin, like, leans over. And he, like, they, they basically download John Claude Van Damme all of Chongley's stats. He's never been defeated. Those also records, he's going to the fastest kill. He killed a guy during the last community. Yep.

Kick the poor bastard right in the throat. I died right there on the platform. John Lee stood there. They're just setting everything up perfectly for how terrifying this guy is going to be. And they, they, they. stick the landing on every single part of that scene. I love a good character introduction more than anything else in this kind of movie. It's usually when he killed a guy that's usually good at that point.

He killed the guy. I mean, this guy's a badass. But then he had all these world records, too. He just kept going, yeah. They left that in the introduction. He's done more steroids than everybody else in Hong Kong combined. Possibly. What's age the best?

We mentioned Donald Gibb as ogre. This was really a trilogy for him. He starts out, he's ogre and revenge and nerds. Everybody knows them that. Then he's in first and ten, the HBO football series that OJ Sipson was on. And then Bloodsport, and then I have no idea what happened to him. But he had a nice little five-year run there. He's really great in this.

Super, just like perfect sidekicky. Where you're just like, that guy's got my dudes back. I don't have to worry about this guy. There's going to be no turn. He's John Claude's buddy through and through. That's it. Never have to worry. worry about them. I'm going to go with Janice Kent in the importance of a free press.

Like, she's just out here. I've heard about this comete. You know, I've heard about it. Just whispers on the street about this. I'm here for the Atlantic. I'm going out there. I'm going to go undercover. I'm going to like find out what's going on in this committee. She's a really good reporter because this has been happening for hundreds of years by this point. And she's cracked it. It's never been written about. And she shows up there. And gets in the room. And she talks in the, gets in the room. She talks like five different fighters. And they're all, you know, She found the guys who got invited to the underground thing. Everyone's willing to talk to her.

I like when she doesn't take notes sitting front row, but pulls out her a recorder and just starts going on top with the recorder. It's like, I'm pretty sure everyone's going to notice that in the Kuwaitang. Another, more what's age the best, the fight scenes we talked about. A couple of Chong Li things that I just think have aged beautifully and disgustingly. The blowing out the boogers out of the nose is such an agro villain move that he does it. I don't know, seven times, but I think you should have done it before this podcast.

I think you should have walked in. Is the tone? The late 80s steroids body that just nobody has anymore because the steroids are better. Nobody has like just. That chest. Yeah, that whole chest torso thing. It's like a fucking love seat.

Yeah. From shoulder to shoulder. It's unbelievable. It's insane. The break my record, now I break you. Like I'd break your friend. Classic. That would have been a good senior year book quote

for somebody. His celebrations? Very creepy. Kind of dorky? Except I disagree. I think that was like the scariest thing he could have possibly done. Because he can't lift his arms all the way over his head because he's got so much steroids in him.

So he's just kind of like this, jumping up and down. I had a lot of trouble. I'm glad you brought that up because I, I'm really thrown by his, part of what makes him so sinister is like I can't read his emotions. Like he's smiling, but he also seems like super. mad and then it's like he's like brutally savagely strong but also like has this weird daintiness when he's celebrating you know like this like it's he's just a very strange character and really scary would you would you would you want in a scene where he just goes home and he's got

a wife and two kids just like a normal guy yeah just like how's cool a guy today honey got his glasses I got a little carried away again I killed the guy paper the part where they show him with clothes on in the reflection is always weird to me. I just only want to see him. No shirt on. That is a great villain that you can't imagine having a normal life

other than just brutalizing other human beings. Great job by them. The peck flexes, we forgot to mention that. Unnecessary. Why? I don't can you?

Showmanship. I guess, yeah. Brock Leznor, by the way, it's another thing Brock Leznor stole from Chongley. Chongley and Brock Lesner. Yeah. He's in a tournament

where you can kill the other people. You have to do everything you can to psych these guys out. I guess. He's a world-class fighters. Morwood's age the best. Van Dam's terrible acting

has aged the best for me because he's so bad and I don't understand why they didn't do more takes of certain scenes, why they just... I think the director just cared about the fighting stuff

and the dialogue was an unnecessary hindrance to what they really wanted this movie to be. It was just a collection of montages of fight scenes. I can't say I disagree. No, they played it as smart.

They played it exactly. But Van Damnev definitely seven years later is like pretty decent as an actor. He was not. decent in this. Do you want to talk about the arena? Is this like the perfect arena for you? Yes. For a fight arena? It's a sandy floor. That's right. I'll go this way. This is how you know it's perfect. What would you change? You can't change anything. I honestly wouldn't you, unless you want to put alligators around the pit where if you fell, you're...

See, that's already too far. Yeah, that's stupid. You want to fall out and land in the sand and and that's a lot of up. That's a lot of upkeep also. I mean, you got to feed them and you're going to clean the alligator pit, all that stuff. You don't want to follow that. Would you, would you change anything, Jason? It's kind of perfect. I love it. Also, I love, you know, I'm a big, the walled city in Hong Kong, which they've since knocked down, really fascinates me, like, as just like a structure that existed at Calloon. And to have, like, this secretive fighting arena, like, within that is just really cool and fascinating.

It's a perfect size. Yeah, the right number of seats. The crowd is close enough that you can sort of feel them. What's the capacity there? 400, maybe. It would be interesting. It's like a middle school gym, like smaller than a middle school gym.

It would be interesting if UFC or Bellator did a whole pay-per-view that was just called Kumete and just had 400 people there about a lot of cameras. Yeah. And just was like, hey, we're just trying this.

I would pay it. Dirt floor, $249. Yeah. Got to. The ref, we mentioned, I want to shout out Stan Bush who wrote Bloodsport Fight to Survive, the song, Stan Bush.

He's the Joe Espos. Zeta of the late 80s. And then young Frank, before he becomes Van Dam, but he's like 13-year-old awkward trying to have a bad French accent, Van Dam. He's wearing like a number 55 Giants jersey.

I don't know what's going on there. And he has a Giants hat, San Francisco Giants hat, New York Giants jersey. There's a fan of Giants. And you're thinking early 70s, mid-70s, and he's rooting for two teams

in two different cities, both named Giants. I just don't know what's going on, but I enjoy that. There's also a kid in one of those flashbacks in the bullying flashback who's wearing a Bartles and James t-shirt. Which did they, like, did they have Bartles and James whenever that was supposed to be? A tough merch scene in Calhoun. I wonder if they knew they were going in there for the sort or they just saw it once they got it.

I think they were just, yeah, they were just poking around. That seems complicated. Yeah. Okay. Jason, how would you compare the first underground walk to Kumete to the Goodfellos? Scorsese one shot nightclub shot. I think it's very close. One A, one B.

I'm going to go with the Scorsese edging it out because it is, you know, the camera work, it goes on for such a long time, continuous. But can you, you know, the Kumete vibe, bringing you into this world that you would never have access to. It was really, it's really something else. Kumite also. Great name. Great name.

Incredible name. Kumite. It's the best. All right. What stage is the worst? The acting. We covered that. Wait, can I add one for what's age is the best?

Let's do it. I really like the tournament movie structure. Any movie where there's a tournament in place, a man, because you don't have to explain very much. A board. Some sort of board. Let me see you move somebody's name further. Got to have that. I really like it.

Any fighting tournament, absolute. It just works. So when we have a ringer MMA tournament, we'll have a board. I can't wait. We should. We should have a board. To the death or what? Who's favorite in that?

To the maiming? Rissua. Oh yeah, Rosillo's part of the ringer now. Brian Curtis. Brian Curtis is dusting everybody. This is my favorite shade bit. I'm terrified of the guy. He's secretly the strongest guy at the rigger.

Look at his hands the next time you see him. They're like the size of football helmets. He's from Texas. He's from Texas. He's been in some bras. He's got the face that lets you know like I'm not going to take any shit. And if you try it, I'm going to put you in the dirt. Listen, these are some movies with tournaments in them, Bloodsport.

Undisputed. Yeah. Karate Kid. Yeah. Warrior. Best of the best. Like for last. That's not technically a tournament.

It's like, you know, it's like a cumulative tournament. Enter the Dragon. Oh, the classic. Fucking never back down. Mortal Kombat. The quest, which was basically Bloodsport 2. These are all fantastic. Well, there was that stretch late 80s into the early 90s where the video games had started

and the movies started and the movie started to kind of reflect the video games. Yeah. Where do you stand on best of the best of him that, finishing the guy off with 10 seconds left. When I was little, I wanted him to kill him. Now you're a piece of that? No, I'm like, oh, that makes sense. I understand.

Now, this is a bigger deal. Because De Han shows up and best of the best, too, when Tommy needs to back up. I like to throw that out there. What's age the best for me is Chong Lee? I don't know if you guys disagree. That's the pick. 31 years later, just still in awe of Chongley and what they created.

He's such a wonderful movie character. Even his celebration thing. All of his parts are interesting. just so cool. We just talked about, oh, that's a good one. In Warrior, when Tom Hardy's character, whenever he wins a fight,

his celebration is he just immediately leaves a ring, like as fast and angry as he can. That's what, like, those are the three best, I think, post-fight celebrations, strongly jumping around with that high pitch, like, ah, weird noise.

Tommy leaving immediately and Daniel Laruso like being confused every time that he won. Those are my three favorite. Stunded. Yeah, he's just like, I did it. Look at his support group. his mom and his semi-girlfriend.

Yeah, he's like, just double-checking all the time. Come on, Daniel, be strong! Beestrard! You have no friends. What stage is the worst, the acting we mentioned, we got to talk about the crawling guy. The monkey fighter, I think. It's very tough.

It's problematic at this point. It's not great. I got to say I loved him for years and years before we started to think twice about some of the stuff. But the style itself, can we just talk about the style? Is that really going to work long-term? I don't.

Just hopping around, load to the ground. Got him to the semis. It did get him to the semis. We never really saw a lot of footage of him, though, leading up to that. I mean, we saw enough. You saw him crack that one guy's head open. It seemed like he was down low.

He would try to trip the person, and then he would jump on them was his move. But it seemed like the better move would be to just stay away. I'll say the thing about his style. And listen, he got the invite to the Kumite. So you have to give him his respect. That is, you know, it's like small, ball when it first came in.

It's a change of pace and you're surprised by it. But as soon as he starts getting to the later rounds, people start scouting him. You know what you're going to say. So you're saying. Like Mike Dantonia. I was going to say James Hardin. So it's the James Hardin.

You understand what is happening at that point. People have scouted him. They've got some experience. It can't work. You mentioned the thing earlier about the, in the beginning of the movie, when they're standing around, they look like Islanders.

Yeah. You can tell watching this movie today, like this was written by a white guy or a couple of white guys and they're like, do you know anything about this? And they're like, I don't know. Make them a monkey, I guess.

Like that, no, that doesn't work. It's really bad, guys. Well, how do you feel about the plot with the reporter in general? Because I have it in what's age the worst. I think there's certain aspects of it that have aged the worst, like her going undercover like basically as a call girl to get into the, to get into the coupic sex as a weapon? Very, very, that is sleeping with a subject is like a bit.

Probably problematic. Not great. It's very, very bad. Other than that, you know, it's just very interesting, like, that trope of, like, how do we get... The female reporter really was a trope of the 70s and 80s. Like, how did the A-team, for instance, is another one. In the making of this movie, or I read about the making of it, and they really wanted this to be the action movie that everybody liked in the 80s, but with a little kind of romance thrown in. They're trying to crack that code.

So at some point the two white guys, the aforementioned white guys, after they saw a monkey guy, they were like, hey, what if it's a female reporter undercover? But she has a little thing for Jean-Claude. And they're like, good, right, that's a good idea. There's a really tough two minutes here post-ray Jackson injury with Jean-Claude moping around Hong Kong. You just say, like riding the bus and stuff. To a song that goes, on my own, I can be strong. And it's like classic bad.

Like, worse than Frank Stallone. Franks Stallone, like, wouldn't have done this. But it does lead to him on the, on the freaking, whatever that is. It's worth it. Doing the split on like the 15th floor of some balcony. Reconnecting to like the thing that got him here. And there's no way that's CGA. There's no ropes.

There's no safety harness. He's up there. He's like, I will get now on the thing. and I will do it. I will do it split. There's a reason you film this movie the way you do in Hong Kong because it's just like,

hey, do we just get up there and do the split? And if you fall, please don't because then we have to shoot the movie with a double. They checked his insurance first. It is funny, though, for such a terribly acted

and probably directed movie, there are some, like, really good scenes. There's a lot of them. That ending scene of him on that thing is pretty great. Like Scorsese would have been like, yeah, it's pretty good. Nice shot.

I like that used Hong Kong in the back. And then the next scene is just the reporter running around. There's that lame chase scene we mentioned earlier. Such a fall from grace athletically for Forrest Whitaker, who was the star linebacker in Fast Times Rochburn High and was headed to the NFL as the middle linebacker who could beat offenses by himself and now can't run through Hong Kong. I just want to read this.

I just want to read the IMDB of Forrest Whitaker from 86 to, let's say. Is Vision Quest on there? Don't leave out of Vision Quest. Okay, I won't do it. Vision Quest 85. Then he does a bunch of TV, Fall Guy, 85, different strokes, North and South. Different strokes.

Mini series, yes. Amazing stories. Here we go. 86. Color of Money. Scorsese. Yeah, he's good in that. Platoon, Big Harold.

Another great, another great character. Goes back to the TV, to his hands of a stranger. Back to movies. Steakout. Yeah. Very likable. morning Vietnam.

Bloodsport. Bird, which I believe he's nominated for. Bird was when it's like, wow, the guy from Fast Times is a real actor? Just like an incredible run to throw Bloodsport in there? Wild. This is like several Oscar nominated movies in this run. And then Bloodsport. I love him and color of money.

I like when he asked it. Oh, yeah. I gained some weight. Yeah. Oh, he fucking got you. Well, he's also, then he had a good career, but then he was. would just pop up in species for no reason? He's like, wow, you're in speech.

Why are you in this? He seems like a fun guy. Forrest Whitaker, the thing I respect about him, in addition to the fact that he's obviously like a great actor, a really good actor. My man's just about securing that bag. Species? Sure. What's that? Sex alien?

Yeah, give it to me. I was just in a hard-hitting Vietnam movie that was nominated for multiple Oscars. Let's do the sex alien also. See, when I watch him, it's a great movie. I feel less like it's, about him just trying to get some money and more like it's about him just wanting to do a thing

that sounds cool. I think it's, man, why can't it be both? I love it. Let's marry the things together. Well, we should mention he eventually, he won an Oscar. He played Eddie Amin. He's a brilliant actor. I love him in phone booth.

He's in phone booth with Colin Farrell. It's basically just him and Colin Farrell, that whole movie. They'll just carry it. So first time you saw this, if you, if somebody told you there's an Oscar winner in this movie, you wouldn't have picked Jean-Claude. He was out. I might not have... Donald Gibb might be out.

I might not have picked Forrest Whitaker either. He is... I'm not sure I would have picked Forrest Whitaker. I would have picked the actress. He put two stamps on it, but he's definitely mailing it in. Yeah. Another what's age the worst. Ray Jackson's M.MA skills, considering he doesn't do M.M.A.

I don't really know what his style was. I don't think he's an M.A. He's like a... He's like a Chuck Liddell. When Chuck Liddell showed up in the M.A. He's like, I'm just going to knock you out. Or you're going to knock me out. Pick one. And then Young Frank.

the accent, the acting. It's just, it's like they just looked at some head shots and they said, he kind of looks like Jean-Claude, let's do this. We've got $1,200 left, who's going to get? Oh, this guy.

It's like, hey, I know it's like, but can you try a French accent or a Belgian accent or just anything that sounds foreign? His dad, when they meet up with his parents, with Franks friend, a totally different accent. Not even close.

Yeah, it's rough. What stage is the worst? The monkey guy. It's got to be, yeah, it's got to be the monkey guy. and the reporter. And then the reporter. And then we didn't even mention Ray Jackson,

like, sexually harassing the woman on the train. I was very, very, very tight. Yeah. That was very tough. And he, like, traps her in the seat with this gigantic Ray Jackson leg. And Jean-Claude's like, look at this guy. They're kind of enjoying it. Oh, this guy's a character.

Casting what-ifs, I don't have any. There's not, like, a ton of information about this thing. There might have been some what-ifs. Honestly, Forrest Whitaker feels like a casting what-if. Like, the fact that he's in it. Who else was? was up for this. Who gave him the script?

Yeah. That he's ever on a podcast. That'll definitely be my first question. All right. So Bloodsport. What happened? This feels like something like his sister's like fiance or something was like, hey, we do, like I have, my friend has this movie he's doing in Hong Kong.

Like, can you help us out? Help us out. The best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. I'm giving this to Norman Burton. Any idea who he is? Helmer. He was, yeah, Forrest Whitaker's partner. He's one of those guys.

I had no idea what his name was until I Google that. I just want to point out a little stretch he had. He was on a lot of TV shows. Cojack, Beretta, Harriot, Rockford Files, Wonder Woman, Quincy, Chip, Simon, and Simon, and Knight Rider. Just in, like, an eight-year run. There was a certain actor that just popped up on all of those shows, all of those procedural shows. So he made that one. Can I just say one thing about Helmer and Rollins?

So you're here to apprehend Frank Dukes, this expert fighter, Green Beret, who's gone on the run to fight in a to the death martial arts tournament. And you send like two dudes with stun guns and no one else. Right. And you're like, yeah, let's take, we're just going to cattle prod him. And then I guess drag him to the plane. Like, send more people. Like, why are you doing it this way?

How many people do they have to? Sanchet. Like to eat? To capture Van Damien? To actually capture him, I say minimum 8. You need, you need 10 or 12, I think. 10 or 12. Maybe a plane of people. They try it in the hotel lobby. Three per limb.

They try it in the hotel lobby. Just the two of them. And then Ray like knocks them out. And then to chase and Susan, they're like, all right, now I guess we got to call in the Hong Kong police. But like, you got to start there. Start with like 15 people. And then after repeatedly, I I had this later for nitpicks what we can do now.

After repeatedly failing at their one job the whole time, they're like, hey, you're going to the fine around? I just watch the fight. Yeah, I'm in Roe 2. Oh, cool. Why don't go watch the fight? Because we can't get this guy. The Saul Rubenek, they knew, award for most egregious overacting.

I would actually say there's more underacting than overacting, but I do think, though, no, no, is, that has to be the choice. Who wins the Deanne Waiters Award for Biggest T-Chic? Victor Lin. You think so? Yeah, yeah, for sure. You're blowing it, Frank. Forget about the girl.

Forget about getting back at Chong Lee for Ray. You have a chance to take it all tomorrow. Do you understand? You can be the first Westerner to win this thing. It's got to be him. He's the only other guy I remember from the movie. That's it. Chongli's not eligible.

Yeah, Chongley doesn't count. Oger's in it too much. The only other one I was thinking was the pointing, point at you point at me guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's in there for a minute, but it's a memorable minute. He looks tough. He's got all their muscles.

He's all shiny and shit. Is it possible the reporter is the Deanne Waiters Award winner? No. In it too much? No, it's not that she's in it too much is that she's too good of an actress. Yeah, she's too good. You need to not be that good of an actor or actress to, like, do the thing. Well, if Chongley's really in this for seven minutes, maybe we could shoehorn him in.

Do you think it's, do you think it's Van Dam's Speedo in the post? post-coit scene. That's a good call. Van Dan's slipping on over his giant butt cheeks. His butt is like very round. Have you ever looked at your own butt in the mirror? Yeah, it's definitely not as right as that. Mine does not look like that.

Do you think they cleared the set that day? No. No. He called him in. He said everybody. I want everybody there. I have no idea who wins the damn winner's word. Half-Fast internet research.

So Frank Dukes, his resume, allegedly was 329 Kumae matches from 75 to 80 undefeated and there was most consecutive chaos 36 this is at the end of the movie and there's just a million things on the internet about this that he might have made up everything. I'm glad you made it half of it, some of it, we'll never know. It was like a whole thing in the Los Angeles Times. There's a big story on it a few months after the movie came out

and they just disproved everything. He had a trophy that he said they gave to him and it turned out that he had it made like down the block from his house. I mean, he said he was in the CIA and then his dad was like in the Mossad. There's a lot of Frank Duke's been spinning some tall tales. The co-writer Sheldon Lettich,

who I think was one of the two of four mentioned white guys that She mentioned. He said, I had known Frank Duke's for a number of months before I came up with the idea of blood sport. Frank told me a lot of tall tales, much of which turned out to be bullshit. But his stories about participating in the so-called Kumite event sounded like a great idea for a movie.

So he definitely inspired with stories, true, false, semi-foss, whatever, inspired the movie. That was the real Frank Duke's mistake. He should have not been like this happened to me. He should have been like, I have an idea for a movie. Right. And then just made, he could have made 25 martial arts movies because the stuff he was making

up was incredible. I read one story where he was talking about it. And he said that, you know, they toned it down for the movie version. And the real life version, we didn't just fight on this platform. We fought in different locations. There was one time where we fought on the temple of a building and the tiles are cracking under our feet. And the logistics of that is just unbelievable.

Yeah, he's, like, really good at making shit up. He should have gone that way instead. He's like, there's this one time I punched these five bricks and only the bottom one broke. Yeah, that's like a crazy thing to think of. You could really do that pre-internet, just be out there just saying wild stuff. It is true. Wild stuff. That would be at What's Age the best for Frank Dukes, but What's Age the worst of the movie is?

You can't make up shit like that anymore unless you're running for president. Say whatever you want. He also said Sheldon Ledich. there was one guy who introduced me to named Richard Bender who claimed to have actually been at the Kumente event and swore everything Frank told me

was true. A few years later, this guy had a falling out with Frank and confessed to me that everything was a lie. Frank had coached him and what to say. Frank Dukes.

I got to say, just if you can Google Frank Dukes and look at him. And obviously, you know, you can't judge a book by its cover. It doesn't look like a ninja.

No. It doesn't look like a 15th degree ninja too expert who like killed people. from the CIA. Took Chong Lee down. Yeah.

What's crazy to me is, like, when you read about him, when you see him, he's so very clearly what Stephen Seagall ended up becoming and didn't like, oh, that, I get it now. I feel like he read that story. Seagall did and said, I'll just do that. Scott Ripped off a guy. I'll just make up some shit. He ended up being the fighting coordinator for the film and put Jean-Claude through a three-month training program.

So this was filmed inside Calhoun Wall. city, which then got destroyed, which I don't know anything about, but I guess they just knocked down the whole city. I don't really understand it. I think they'd knocked it down to build an airport also. It was like, and now I'm just speaking from my cursory research over the years about this subject. But it was like, it was a constant fire hazard and I guess like associated with crime and stuff because people would just like flee in there and no one could find them. You couldn't find You couldn't find him. Somebody saw Bloodsport.

I was like, we need to shut this down. I just read Janice's story in the Atlantic about the kumete. It's been going on for centuries in there. Not a name for a Pulitzer. How many splits did Jean-Claude do in this movie? He does a drawn and quartered one. He does on the top of the temple.

He does on the chairs. He does when he fights Pumala. He does... I'm at four. You just listed five. Five? Okay, I'm at five. I'm going five.

Jason. Oh, wait, wait. And then when Pomala drags him? Six. Oh, wow. That was, yeah, that does count, I guess. Yeah, he was split. You can tell you was hurt for real on that one.

You're asking, this is the split expert who literally. The answer is seven. Oh. What did I miss? Which one did I miss? I think you might have missed the one when he jumps under a smiling bear hug guy and then punches him. No, I got that. I know what it is.

And this one shouldn't count. but it's when he jumps up over Chongli and he does him in the air. That's what it is. Okay. Wow. That doesn't count. He did six. I found this on the internet, so it's got to be true.

The fighter we mentioned was actually knocked unconscious by Jean-Claude, and the teeth came out. That was all. The elbow guy. And they were like, that was cool. They kept it in the movie. Yeah. Which is great. There's three fighters in this movie I wanted to mention.

Go for it. So Bolo was in Enter the Dragon. I don't know what his background is, but he had some stuff. Your dude Paco was Paolo Tocha, Toka Tocha. He was a Muay Thai champion. Yep. And then Michael Kissy, who played Swan Parades, who got annihilated by Chong Li. He went on and played Tongpo, the main villain in Kickboxer.

Oh, he was the broken leg guy. I'm sorry. That's always my favorite bit of trivia is that they went to Thailand to film this movie and they couldn't find someone from Thailand to play Tongpo. Yeah. So they fucking put the makeup on our guy, Michael. The arcade game that they played, you know, karate.

Kung Fu Master or karate? It was a karate? Karate Champ, 1984. I love the idea that being good at karate champ, like your actual martial arts. Who's a male body? They translate. It translates to that.

Mortal Kombat apparently took huge inspiration from this film. I'm sure. Yeah. Which makes sense. Just never really... That's the Johnny Cage character. The game creator, John Tobias, said they wanted to make a gritty game based on the film.

All right. Apex Mountain. I'm going to say yes for Donald Gibb. I don't think it got... He's coming off Revenge of the Nerds and First and Ten, and then to be in this, it makes $65 million. You think this is bigger than Revenge of the Nerds? No, but he's like the 10th most important person in Revenge of the Nerds.

This one, he's like, focal. I don't know. It's in play. I think it's revenge of the nurse. This is definitely the first time in this conversation has ever happened on a podcast

what Donald Gibbs Apex was. Yeah, I think it's got to be revenge on the nurse. The actress Leah Ayers, I'm going to say yes because she was just,

I looked at her IMDB and it's like 100 TV shows that she was never on full-time. She had a great run with Walker, Texas Ranger, apparently. Hmm, apparently. I'm just saying.

Would you go Chong Lee, aka Bolo? Would you go this or under the dragon? I go, this. I go this too. Because he doesn't fight Bruce Lee and in another dragon. I think that disqualifies this. And this is just like iconic.

I mean, how many memes have been created because of this character? How about Calhoun? Gets knocked down after. Is this the apex of Calhoun-Walled City? Ooh, I think that... What other movies have been set in this place? It's kind of how it lives on now. I don't know enough about it.

I think actually Call-A-Duty Black Ops 2 might be Apex Mountain for Calhoun-Walled City. That's all I got for Frank Frank Duke's probably his Apex Mountain Right before the internet

Free Internet Was his Apex Mountain This isn't Forrest Whitaker's Apex Mountain This is John Claudebendam Splits Apex Mountain Picking Knits

We mentioned everything I just had I thought I just felt like everybody was too accommodating for Chong Lee's finishing move They just let them do it

We're just like He's holding people And he's doing the He's getting the crowd up But it's not like the guys are unconscious. They're just kind of like, somebody should have pulled them aside to me like, you got to stop killing people.

You got to stop putting people in the hospital. It wasn't his gimmick. And then some questions about how gambling worked in the Kumate. Just seemed like a lot of money and people shouting and throwing them. I didn't really, how do they keep track? I just had a lot of questions.

I feel the same way whenever I watch like old Wall Street movies and they're in the pit. Yeah. What are you doing? Like trading places. Sell, sell, bye, bye, bye. They're handing out papers. Yeah.

That doesn't seem official. I like when the one guy gets knocked out on the, and they just all throw their fucking betting tickets on top of them when he's laying on the ground. I will say I've been to a real cockfight in a cockfighting arena in the Philippines. Yeah. And the way they do it there is there's like a person who covers one side of the arena called the Christo. Like Christo, like Christ, because they hold their arms out. like this to call them the vets.

And you'll just be like, you'll like do some kind of hand signal. And they, they just literally remember what you bet. And then at the end of it, wildly inefficient. I'm just saying they somehow they remember. And then if you lose, you, you ball up your money into like a little ball and just throw it into the ring. And then they sweep it all up and they like put it in a basket and take it away. And if you don't pay, I guess you don't do that because then you just don't leave the arena.

But that's how they do it. And then if you win, they, like, ball up, they take the money and they make, like, a little triangle football out of it and they just throw it up to you. That sounds awesome. These guys have incredible memories. That's all I know. Any of the pickinets?

Yes, I have one. Why did Sean Claude Van Damme have to prove himself after he already had the invitation? I don't understand why he had to break the brick. You got the invitation. You're good to go. I guess that's, like, two-factor... It's like two-factor authentication. Click the I'm not a robot and also what the capture.

Right. You don't know if that's the real guy. Just make sure it's the real guy. Just make sure it's the real guy. I'd like to say that one. You think John Clyde? He really just wanted to the brick thing and they just kind of shoehorned it in. Well, I guess we could say your invitation isn't valid.

Okay, I have one other one then. Chongli, who we know is the reigning champ, he has nine fights in the tournament. So if this is a single elimination tournament, there have to be 512 people. for him to have nine fights to get to the championship. Is that true? Yes, I did the math. Damn. Well, they do in the beginning.

They cut to, there's just a ton of fighters. But there's not 50012. Is there just like a pile of bodies outside? Calhounwald's. Best quote. I enjoyed, why don't you quit Round Eye as a way of heckling young Frank? I didn't have to take it there. Yes.

Brick not hit back became one of the iconic ones. It's a great hat tip to Bruce Lee. You Jackson? You look like a Jackson. The hell's Mr. Lynn. I'm Lynn. You Jackson? You look like a Jackson. Okay. Even Victor Lynn agrees that that should have been a thing.

Not a lot of best quotes. There's not a lot of quotes in this movie. But then the obvious. No. No. No. The Bolo. I break you. I break your friend. Those are really the best ones.

Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Yes. My instinct was God-no. And then I started thinking about it. And if they just had a show called Kumate, I was trying to imagine your reaction to it. I think you would have to be, like, hosed off. Yeah, I would, yeah.

They could do it. You wouldn't hear from me for, you know, however many episodes there were. Eight episodes, you make them 22 minutes, like fleabag, just really short and to the point. If they did, they did Cobra Kai and it was like, great, give me, give me Kumete. Yeah.

All right, get on it, Netflix. Back to the, to the quote thing, Bill, there are three lines that gets said to Chung Lee. Yeah. Do you know what they are? What are they? Three lines. This is another great, like, character building thing.

Tomorrow we leave for the Kumate. That's what his trainer tells him. That's the first thing anybody says. The next thing anybody says to him is Ray Jackson. I'm going to kill you, man. Yeah. And then the last one is Van Damme yelling ahead of him. That's it.

The only time anybody talks to him is, like, fight-related stuff. And I love that. There's a deleted scene where he goes to visit the guy of the broken leg. He's like, sorry, man. Just got a little carried away, my bad. Probably in answerable questions. What happened to the mentor's son? Initially, the mentor goes, hey, man, this is all about getting my son into the Kumate someday.

And then he gets his ass kicked outside of school and he's never seen it again. So what happened? No, he dies. That's why Frank comes in. That should have been my answer for the DNA teacher. But they never show the death. No, they show them mourning the death. They've got a picture of him up on the wall.

He probably was in the military or something. Who knows? No backstory at all. We have three minutes of him walking sadly around Calhoun to that sappy song, but we can't find out what happened to the mentor's son? Let me just also say, like, why is the mentor's son so bad at fighting? You've got access to this incredible resource in your father who's like... Wait, but how do we know that he was bad?

Because he got beat up by three older kids when he was... No, even the fight scenes with him were pretty bad. That kid should have been a badass. We should have been like, wow, that kid's like when we watch the LeBron James Jr. Highlands. He's got to be a threshold. He put Frank on his knees. He did do that.

Yeah, he did do that. And Frank was holding a sword. He still ran up on him and fucking kicked him. But again, that should have been my pick for the Dion Waiters. When the dad gives that speech about how his dad, I mean, his son is dead and like this tradition that we've been passing down from father to son, fathers. And he like chokes up in that moment. Why can't we give him Deon Waiters? That's what I'm saying.

That's what it should have been. That's good. Or the mom who's just smiling knowingly at everybody. That sort of fits no lines. Another in answerable question, which I already asked. I'll ask you. What happens when you mention Bloodsport to Forrest Whitaker? Like, you're at a dinner with him.

You just happen to be at the next table. An hour until you're like, hey, man, I fucking love Bloodsport. What's his reaction? I think he's thrilled. He's thrilled. He tells like a Caloon story. He's got a million Caloon stories. Yeah, he's crazy, man.

They had to shut that place down. Forest Whitaker's at all time. cool guy. 100%. Shea. Out of all the sporting events, you could have gone to in a sports movie. How high is Chong Lee, Frank Dukes, the finals? You could have been ringside with the Atlantic reporter.

I mean, the storylines. And the two FBI guys. The storylines write themselves. Yeah. But is that a top five I would have wanted to be there for the finals moment? That's got to be number one, I think. If we're just talking about the stakes, we're talking about it, like, again, This is a fight to the death.

We have the reigning champion who hasn't been defeated in years. We have this, the first American person who has a chance to win. Like, that's an incredible moment. Somebody might die. And he's there carrying on the lineage of his mentor whose son died. That story comes out. Forget about it. You write, that's the we get.

Oh, my God. That's a, that's a 2,000 word feature. And this is Chongley coming off of having just killed his second combatant in the tournament. I, that's got to be my number. I'm still going with the soccer game in victory. I'm not interested. Like this is for me. What are you talking about?

They had to beat the Nazis and then everybody escapes and everyone in the crowd breaks through the walls. I mean, it's a big story. That would have been a good one to be. It's a good story, but I got to say it's not like this one, the hype surrounding it would have been huge. The Nazis versus the Prisoners game, you're like, ah. Yeah, like the Nazis are going to roll over these guys.

Yeah, it's like, it's more about the escape. It's less about like the game itself. The excitement leading up to the event. Yeah, yeah. This one is just like hype, hype, hype. How about shoot loud and swain? I don't even know what that is. Vision Quest.

No. That one's pretty big. That was first. You never saw Vision Quest? Mm-mm. Oh, no. All right. Can you watch that for me?

No, Matthew. That's Pete. That's Matthew Modeon's... It's the greatest wrestling movie of all time. Oh, oh, that one. Is that the one where he, like, climbs up the thing? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. I've seen clips of it. Oh, yeah. You're so excited. Oh, that's a great one. No, give me Chong Lee versus Frank Duke's number one. Give me Sidney Dean and Billy Hoyle versus the King and Duck for number two. for number two.

Give me... I don't know if you had to pay for that one. You probably not have to pay for it. You probably just kind of wandered over to the side. And my third pick is give me the title game, Friday Night Lights. How about... High school, Texas, high school. How about Doug and Kate for the doubles figure skating gold in cutting edge?

Wow. Coming off... Olympics drama. His hockey career in tatters, he switches lanes to become... a figure skater and they win the gold? I would go Blades of Glory over that one. The slap shot title game where it's just

going to be a bra for three periods. It would have been fun to go to. My honorable mention fourth place, the bobsled racing cool runnings. I want to see that. Give me down there. Also, you know what? Actually, forget it.

I think the most hype has to be like a dozen dead racist baseball players coming back to life to play a baseball game in a cornfield. Yeah. Good pick. I mean, this is like everything you know about reality has been overturned.

I'm going to one-up it. Give me snake in the basketball pit when he's got to go court to court 10 seconds to make the shot. And it gets harder and harder. And it ends with him doing a full-core shot. Yeah. And then they still try to kill him. Snake. Fucking snake pliskin, baby.

This one's for Shea specifically. Yes. Best Paco movie performance ever. Bloodsport or Bad Boy? Who's the king of the Pacos? Oh, blood in blood out, Paco Aguilar. El Gallo Negro. I forgot about that one.

Boom! So that's the... That's number one. He's number one. Who's number two? Number two is Paco from Bloodsport. Over Paco from Bad Boys. Yeah.

I think so. Which Bad Boys are you talking about? Sean Penn Bad Boys? Yes. Oh my God, Sean Penn Bad Boys. It's a dark movie. Yeah. It's a great movie, though.

Yeah. He fills this. Ben and I watched the last. I fast forwarded one scene that there's a bad scene. Filling the pillow sheet with the soda cans. Oh my God. That's tough. The exploding radio. That is wild.

It blew my mind when I realized that that is the guy who grew up to be the guard in Shawshank. I was like, oh, no wonder he's that way. And then he ended up in billions. Yeah. He got his life together. Yeah, he's one of those guys. Which real life MMA guy would be the best. sport character.

Connor McGregor. Yeah. Right? You need, this is what you need. You need Connor McGregor. We're going to reboot it. You need Connor McGregor in the,

in the Jean-Claude Van Dammerel. That's where my mind was going as well. You need Nate Diaz. Connor McGregor finds out about Kumete. He's in. And he's like, I'm just doing this. Here's the issue, though. Or monsters are making him do it.

Can Connor McGregor do like the humility required for the Frank Duke's character? No. Yes. You think so? No. I think so. Did you watch this documentary? he's like a tender guy when he wants to be

to be. Listen, he meets Arnold Schwarzenegger in the documentary and he like freaks out about it. Arnold Schwarzenegger says I'll be back line and he like melts. It's great. It's wonderful. Connor McGregor, he mean Nate Diaz, and Rampage Jackson. Okay.

Was this the biggest choke job in sports movie history? He's, he blinds Jean-Claude Van Damme. He blinds him. The guy's blind. In a very small Kumete space, He's already killed somebody, broken somebody's leg, and put somebody in a coma. And he can't finish him off. I don't think so.

I don't think so. Not a choke job. You're not doing a joke. He's a top level. I mean, this was part of his training. You don't think Max Kellerman's killing him the next day? That's just incredible. I mean, Sean Lee, you have him.

That's incredibly bad luck that you blinded the guy. And it turns out he trained for years to fight blind. I think it's, Ray Jackson's is more of a choke. That's a legitimate choke. Because he had it. He had, he had, he had, he had, he had chung on the ropes. And then he's just like, oh, I killed him.

He's dead. That's, we were talking about Reggie. That's Reggie doing the bow. Yeah. And then the guy, and then Tony, was it Tony Kukko? She had the shot afterwards? Yeah. Yeah.

You have three kids. I feel like you could do this. Why don't you do with one of the twins? Okay. You just do the blindfold training thing that they did with, with Van Damme in this movie. And having, like, walk around the table with the blindfold served, like, see, how much you could actually and then compare him to the other kid

and see if this actually would have worked. Okay. Good summer project for you. We're going to try that. Just put blind. I just feel like you've got to serve everyone dinner while we're at this blindfold. I just don't feel like it would be like in two days

Jean-Claude's like, yeah, I'm getting this down, man. It's like, I don't even need eyes. I don't think it was two days. I think it was a long time. The montage stretches years. New York Times bestselling author, Shea Serrano accused of child abuses.

Why holding his children and making them servant people. I chopped them in the head. Is Ben in karate or like jiu-jitsu or anything like that? No, he just wants to fight people for real. Oh, that's great. We put the twins in karate. Like he wants to do M-M-M-A. He's out on karate.

He's like, I want to actually do stuff. We put the twins in karate when they were like six or seven. And they loved it. It was like, because you show up in the first day you're just doing flips and twist and you're like punching this like plastic paper or whatever. and they kept going, they kept going, and then eventually it got the sparring session, and they hated it.

They didn't want any part of it. And one of the boys, Braxton, was there, and he was like, he's super shy. He doesn't like touching other kids. He don't want any part of that. And they called him up there, the Sensei did, and they're trying to get him a fight, and he wouldn't do it, he wouldn't do it.

He just refused to hit him. So they gave him these, like, styrofoam swords. They're like, okay, hit him with the sword. The other kid gets a sword. And the other kid, fucking just, as soon as they said, fight, he just fucking whopped Braxton in the chest. and Braxton threw a sword on the ground.

He screamed like John Claude Van Damme in the movie. And then he charged the kid, grabbed him on the floor and was just like, ah, ah, he got like three or four solid shots in before the, Sensei pulled him off. And we were like, no karate for you. No karate for you. That sounds like what would happen to my son. Yeah.

I don't know if it's a good idea for our son's taberman. I couldn't believe what I was watching. So if you were blinded by an illegal substance, Well, it's salt. If it's salt, it's fine. Would your strategy have been to do sweeping roundhouse kicks as part of the blind? Maybe he's over there. Just all around the mat?

What's your strategy at that point? You can't see. I mean, I actually think that's pretty good because it's that the fighting platform is not that big. I'd say he falls off in real life. Probably. Because there's a couple points where he's backing up. Again, he's trained for this. He touches the ref.

He's trained for this. He's activating all of his senses. Yeah. Right. Any other in answer to smell, he could smell them? Anything else? Do we answer every question you had?

I have a thousand of them, but I think I would like to keep them to myself. This is going to be, I can't wait to say how this plays out. Who won the movie? Oh, man. Chong Lee. Yeah, Chong Lee. He's iconic. Okay, I thought it was Chong Lee too, and I thought I was like going to be out of a limb.

No. Because this movie, it gets Jean-Claude's career going, and he has like a 10-year run, and it's a Jean-Claude movie, but I just feel like Chong Lee wins a movie. Yeah. He's one of, this is one of the best sports movie villains ever, if not number one. And I can't think of this movie, not think of him.

Yeah, he's up there for me. Yeah. Incredible efficiency. If they remade this movie, it would be good or bad for you. Is Bolo Young Chongli again? He's probably... He's like 65.

Probably doesn't have a litter, probably I'm guessing. No, this is good if you remake it. You get Eco from the raid in this movie. And you, like, let him do the fighting stuff? I'm in. The whole concept is, of this thing's happening in some weird place. It might be real, it might not,

but I'm going to go see what it is, and then it turns out to be real underground, whatever. I think that should work every 10 years. It's a classic. It's a classic set up. Arguably, it could have been like a fast and furious setup for a movie, where it's like one of the guys in the gang has now fallen into this world.

It's a classic setup along with the most dangerous game, like we're going to hunt human beings in this like on this island. They're just, that's a new movie that's coming out. You'll be saying that. Yeah, you just can keep recycling that every five to six years. Just give me a new, they're hunting humans and a new, you know, martial arts tournament somewhere in the world. Shea Serrano, Jason, a pleasure.

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