The Rewatchables - ‘Blow Out’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Wesley Morris

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Wesley Morris head to Philadelphia in search of the perfect scream as they revisit Brian De Palma’s 1981 thriller ‘Blow Out,’ starring John Travolta, Nancy Allen, and John Lithgow. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An Instagram post gets an unexpected boost. A TikTok catches in the algorithm. Sometimes that's all it takes to launch someone into internet fame. But then what? This blew up is a new podcast documentary that reveals how social media stardom is made. It's a different kind of fame. That's not always as glamorous as it looks. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Alyssa Boresnak.

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where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennacy. You cannot find still processing with Leslie Morris. That's on the York Times. What am I fucking ghost? And you can find CR doing the watch with Andy Greenwald. You're not a ghost. Yeah. You're not breaking that out, right?

Twice a week. Thanks for your support, though. We don't really often do four-person rewatchable's podcast, but we're doing it at this case. What do we do to deserve each other? Blowout. We got naughty in November is what we did. Blowout.

Our third installment of Neo-November. Neo-November. You're so bad at messaging. Noddy November. No wonder you're not going to be my senator. Just say, naughty November. You keep changing it at the line. Blowout is next.

It began with the sound that no one. was never supposed to hear. Recorded a murder. They say never happened. Almost blowout. Murder has a sound all its own. Rated R. See it at a theater near you.

All right. This movie came out in 1981. It was directed by Brian DePama. Conspiracy Sex Noir. Quite a vertical, Wesley. Two things right in my middle of my wheelhouse. Conspiracies and Sex Noir. Great stuff.

Your two favorite Reddit pages. Travolta. Chavoth in his peak De Palma in his peak and for you and Chris Ryan one of the great Philly movies ever It's up there It might be the best

What's that to live? Give us your one sentence Take on this movie It's the It's one of the greatest movies about a lot of different things It's one of the greatest movies About filmmaking

It's one of the great movies about It's the greatest movie about sound Right Yes Um, it's one of, it's, I think this is the, this is my favorite John Travolta movie star performance. Me too. I'm gonna dive into that about 10 minutes from now. Sean is giving me, I love it when Sean is like, Sean has this, um, kind of skeptic, skeptical penetration look that he gives that simultaneously like friend at a bar, but also David Frost.

Well, Sean loves phenomenon. So that's on. I think he's true. Yeah, yeah. I also think... Michael, actually, the one where he's an angel. That's my favorite. I also think this is just one of the great movies about how to get to the bottom of something that really kind of, like, De Palma is really messing with a tradition of detective work and mystery making here.

And I just think it's a really good example. I don't know if it's the best example of this. But it's a great kind of murder mystery movie that doesn't do 60% of what most of these stories do, even the ones that are great and work. And I... Uncluttered. Yeah, I mean, the suspense operates in a really weird way here because what you really want to know, you don't really care about what happened. You kind of want to know what's going to happen to Travolta's character. Yeah, you don't know, like, what McRyan was standing for that made him.

get assassinated. And the movie does not even pretend to care. C.R. was going to vote for him. I was there. I had the pin and everything. Were you the cop? Were you the cop in the room? He ended my vote.

Sierra, this movie checks a lot of boxes for you. Yeah. There's a really great De Palma documentary that Noel Bomback. Very good. We're going to talk about that a lot. But in that doc, Bombach's asking De Palma about the settings for his movies

and specifically for this case, Philly, which is where DePaulma. from and he's like that must be very exciting for you that must be one of the main draws and De Palma's like when I'm watching a movie and it opens up and it's just a helicopter shot of New York I think to myself where's the idea and every single second of Blah has an idea whether it's a visual idea an auditory idea so many visual ideas a performance idea an idea about like the individual versus society and conspiracies and mysteries and everything it's just like you can watch it over and over and

over again and see something or hear something or think about something new. It's just, it's such a rewarding movie because then it's also just like a great middleweight class thriller that just races through its plight. It's so fucking fun. Middleweight thriller is great. Yeah. Yeah. De Palma is your guy, Sean.

Well, you had a lot of guys. Was and it is, yeah. Well, this whole generation of filmmakers that were working during this theme month are some of my favorites. The Paul is the ultimate technician, you know. He's like, he's a craftsman, not an artist. He makes a lot of art, but he understands the mechanics of movie making probably as good as anybody from his generation.

And this is, like Wesley said, it's a movie about making movies. There's literally a moment where Travolta's character recreates making a film. We have to talk about this. We'll save it for later. I don't know how they did that. I mean, there's several sequences in this movie, which is now, over 40 years old where you're like, I don't, I've never seen that before and I've never seen it since. There's a particular moment where the camera is spinning around in the room and you're like, what?

It looks like a special effect and it's not. And so, you know, he's like an incredibly intellectual guy, but he's the father of someone who worked in medicine. And so he has this kind of engineers mentality when he puts films together. And I think when Chris says like, where's the idea, that's not this highfalut and philosophical concept. It's like, how do the pieces fit together? He's like a puzzle master. and I think this is probably his masterpiece like probably his ultimate a lot of people love Carrie you know there are people who go to bat

for like Mission Impossible but Dress to Kill which is the film that precedes this movie which is the reason he got to make this movie is because of the incredible success of Dress to Kill but to me this is the ultimate technicians movie and it's also deeply emotional

like unusually emotional for really romantic yeah so I mean I think it's like a full-blown masterpiece I said to Chris yesterday I'm like is this one of the 10 best movies ever made. On a certain day, I feel that way.

This is like, Tarantino, this is like one of his favorite movies. If you watch this movie, you're like, this movie invents David Fincher.

You know what I mean? Like, there's everything that we kind of like, like that comes after this has a lot of roots in this movie. Yeah.

I saw it in the theater. And it was cool. That was weird. I was like 11. That's how people felt. Yeah. With my dad, I was like,

all right, that was cool. That sucked that she died and then, you know, I don't know, I was 11. I didn't appreciate any of the stuff he was doing in it. And then when it had that second and third and fourth shelf life on cable,

and you just start watching specific scenes. And it's like what Chris said, there's just the ideas. It's just an all-time idea movie. I think Tarantino, I'm not surprised this is one of his favorite movies because you can see like he's stealing the, I'm not just doing a scene here.

I want to make this scene. seen as cool and interesting and unique as possible. DePaul is a fascinating filmmaker. I think this is by far his best movie. I really do. I think this is start, middle, finish. Yeah, yeah. He just peaks.

And it's crazy this film had no Oscar buzz. It got no award to the summer. It was considered a bomb and kind of ruined Chavolta's career. It's like, insane. When you look back, you're like, how did this? How was this bad for everybody? How did this happen? Yeah, I mean, it got caught in a really interesting

summer of 81, which I think is indicative of how this movie is kind of a relic. It's like a late period new Hollywood movie. And it feels like it feels a lot closer to Coppola's a conversation than it does what was contemporary. Right. It should have come out in like 1976. It's like June 10th is Raiders of

the Lost Ark. June 17th is Superman 2. June 24th is Stripes. That's 80s movies right there in a nutshell. It's not this bleak, desperate, really sad, depressing you know,

paranoid, ad old film. Like, that's just not what the moment was. And he was still in that moment, but it's not what movies was. But it also, but it,

I agree with you, but I also think, it's funny because, you know, American Gigolo is a movie where, I mean, it has been said before

Chuck Closterman has said it maybe best. And maybe he made me think this, and I don't know that I thought it before. I read him say this about American Gigolo,

but like, you watch that movie and you're like, it's like the 70s, didn't even happen. And you're just like, the 80s, whatever the 80s is, is starting right now. I'm going to, like, Paul Schrader is pressing play on an entire decade. Right.

This movie, which comes out the year, or the year after American Gigolo, it still feels like it's straddling the priorities, the sort of, like the sort of intellectual and atmospheric priorities. It feels like something that may have been written in 77. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But it has.

it has this brightness and this like flexibility and this glossiness and this interest in Travolta's stardom that is completely a 1980s thing.

Right. This movie does not work. I mean, we're obviously going to talk about this, but I can't think of somebody else who could have made this work with the lightness

that it has the deceptive lightness, the like finesse, all of that is coming from Travolta. Because in 1975, if this movie comes out, Redford's the star. It's one of the heavies, right? Yeah. It's a different movie, and it's probably really good.

It could be Hoffman. It could be any one of those guys could do it, but nobody would do it with this much, like, I really, I love what you're saying about those. That's exactly what I was going to say. I was going to say, like, I think I always look at Travolta's performances as dances for some reason, for obvious reasons. But watching him when he's got multiple machines running in his lab in his office,

and he's like kind of going in between a couple of different things and taping things up. And he's like cutting this and reeling that. Just like this guy is like walking on air. I'm getting chill right now. And if you think about Dustin Hoffman doing that and he's just like, fuck, cut. And he's like, he's like a pugilist. he's like fighting everything. But Travolta's like, yeah, I got to find out what happened, man.

I got to do this. I'm smoking. I'm walking through Philadelphia. Nobody can bother me. You know what I mean? It's like it's effortless, but it actually makes the movie, it contrasts how dark and conspiratorial the movie is to have this guy just be like, I'm the hero. But not only, it's also that like in that sequence.

So there's like to just like establish this, there's a sequence where he is, he's gotten the photographs of the car that has gone off the bridge, right? He's got Dennis Francis who's like this like wheat witty carp. Yeah. Like this Wii G.S tabloid photographer. The pictures have run in Newsweek and everywhere. He sold them everywhere, I guess. Travolta gets the pictures.

He makes a little, like the Newsweek ran them, you know, frame by frame. Yeah, news today. It's like supposed to be like a glossy in Philly. So he gets these, he gets this magazine's photos. He makes a little flip book. he then takes the flip book and basically turns it into you know a film made movie and then he marries the sound that he gets the night

he was out there recording when the car goes off the bridge and what you're watching him do is a very seemingly simple thing which is marry the sound he took to the images from the magazine but this is a eight minute sequence and the entire time you're watching a person who you know is John Travolta but you also believe this guy knows exactly what he's doing because there's such a casualness about it, right?

Like, he does this all, he does some version of this all the time. He works in movies. He watches people construct movies every day. Yes, and there's just something about the concentration on his face. He's not performing thought. He just, there's a level of engagement

that is so, I don't know how you act this. I don't know how you rehearse it. I don't know what Travolta is thinking, because I'm not watching a person think. I'm watching a person, but he's got to be thinking because he's doing a job that he doesn't normally do. You're tapping into something that I was loving movies,

and I can't think of that many examples of when somebody lands the plane on it. When somebody's got some cool job that's really distinct. That they're actually good at. Yes. And you completely believe they're good at the job. I can't think of less than like 10 examples. He handles that with one line.

Even all the president's men when we did that one, when he's just in the, newsroom and they're kind of the way Redford's navigating around the newsroom, like you just kind of eventually just think this guy definitely works for the newspaper. Yeah, I, I, Michael Clayton is a good example of this. Like, what is a fixer at a law firm? That's a very specific job that has a very specific approach to that job, just like somebody who mixes and captures sound for a film and integrates it into movies, even schlocky B-grade movies. That's a very specific job that we don't often see in movies. And so when you get that level of specificity in the, in the, you know,

in the gig, you got to have that level of specificity and showing you how you do that job. Otherwise, why may get that job? What would even be the point of that? So obviously, it's intrinsic to the way they tell this story. But I don't know. I mean, I think De Palma at times is like, this job is not easy.

You know, what I do is not simple. It's like an appreciation. It is. Oh, of course. And like a lot of, a lot of that sequence is, it's half watching Travolta do the job. And the other half is close-ups of the job being done.

Yeah. I mean, It's his hands turning knobs and pulling levers and cranking things. And there are so many close-ups of the work being done. And it's just this beautifully assembled sequence that relies on a movie star's movie starness and a director's real insistence upon an appreciation for craftspersonship. Yeah, you know, like I was watching this last night with my wife. And just was the first time she'd seen it.

And we were watching during that sequence. She was just like, there was some gizmo or mechanism that he was threading film through. And she was like, oh, that seems like it would jam. And I just said to her, well, he'd fix it. And that's the other thing about this movie that I love so much is like just to be back in the world of tactile things that we used to like, here's these like giant tables that you needed to like set a image. You know what I mean? Or here's this huge crank that you'd have to do to get a film strip to go through and to sync up sound. And like, I think it's the fact that this movie, I mean, obviously, because for Rosalie and I, we, like, see places that we've walked up and down the streets a hundred thousand times or whatever.

But there's also, like, an immersion in the world of things that I think is now gone. It's like, how would a guy, if you set this in 2022, he would be doing everything on his iPhone pretty much. And, like, you know, there would be five people who would have a camera out immediately when the car went into the water. But it's only this sound guy. You know what I mean? Like, who understands? I hear something before the tire blows out. And that's the entire...

It's a degree of difficulty, right? Yeah. It's a skill. It's just less degree of difficulty now. He's got all these big contraptions. I think, though, that... I mean, I'm 100% with you about the tactility. It's just really romantic to, like, feel that. I can smell that office.

I can see a diploma, some version of a diploma doing, finding a visual language for doing it on an eye. Sure. Absolutely. You know what else is cool, though. But if it's professional, I don't know what professionals do now, but whatever a professional sound person's apparatus is, is.

Yeah, it's probably easier. But I hear you about the, the tactility is important, though, right? Mm-hmm. Because you're, like, there's something about, like, the making of art, but it is an entirely manual process, which are-I- mean, it's manual and sensory, but the manual part, you can't, you can't, we can't appreciate the sensory mastership without the sort of, the manual labor aspect of the job. And he has to sort of master.

The thing about Travolta in this performance is just the way he puts his equipment on his shoulder. When he leaves the office to go out to record that bridge situation, that he doesn't know he's going to record. He's recording wind, right? Yeah. Because somebody, you know, the director of this movie is sort of telling him he's doing a bad job. And he's like, I'm just going to go out in the middle of the night

and prove this motherfucker wrong and get some good win. Well, it's also the way De Palma films that whole scene when he's recording the sound and he's got these little things to like plant your brain for later so then when he listens back to the sound it's like there's the owl again and there's the bridge it's like

well now you've gone through it three times so you know it goes it goes frog owl and then the blowout but we're you know we're nostalgic about the greatness of a filmmaker who can do something like this but he's in a way being nostalgic about something

that is still relevant today which is like that's the Zepruder film Which is just, right? That's just him watching something over and over and over again. He's a massive Kennedy conspiracy. I don't know if he's a theorist, but he's somebody who's really interested in that story. It's my kind of guy. Chapegoidic is a part of this story.

There are a number of other political conspiracies and events that are part of the story. And it's all about revisiting, rewatching, re-reading, trying to better understand by going back and going back and going back and putting those little hallmarks that you just pointed out, Bill, and showing them again later in the film where we're reimagining some of the things that we see the tire being blown out. When does the sound hit? What comes first?

When did we see the owl in the split die after shot? All that stuff is so intentional because he is that guy. He's the guy who has looked at stuff over and over and cutting a film is the same way. You're cutting a movie. I just saw a movie this week. I won't spoil the movie. It's the Fableman's, the new Spielberg movie, which is all about like his becoming a person who loves and appreciates movies. And there's a lot of time spent in the film showing how in the 1960s as a kid you would cut a film together.

You would actually like cut the actual film and have. you would sync music. And it's the first time I've seen something like that since this movie where he really cares about explaining to you that this is how something comes together. When you watch JFK, we don't know about Abrams of Pruder and like why he was filming. And we just know that there's that there's that footage that we see over and over again. Like Garrison sees over and over again. In this movie, he's like, this is how this happens.

This is how you capture something. And then this is how you make something out of what you captured. But I actually think that what's interesting about this, though, is that. that it's anti-conspiratorial, right? This is like... I wonder. It's an interesting conversation. Because what you're watching is the labor that goes into proving a conspiracy.

Because, I mean, I'm not... Like, obviously, there are lots of conspiracy theories? But are you watching that? Are you watching the labor not paying off because nobody believes them? Right. And in the end, the government gets away with it. Okay. I think that's what it is.

Fine. But you're kind of right, though. But you don't... But it is like, well, you're just... say it. Well, no, in the beginning of the movie, the guy comes up to him, he's like, yeah, there was a girl in the car, but we're not going to talk about that. Yeah. I mean, well, I'm going to prove, I mean,

like, there's a version of this also where he's like, well, I guess that's it. Yeah. Well, he has the quote, and this is why this is J.F.K. Cross with Chappaquittic. Travolta says, if they can get away with this and kill McRine, who's next? Right. Yeah. Right. Which is basically 70s DNA of,

hey, if we let this happen, you could be next, I could be next. We're all in danger. which is basically five years in the 70s. Yep. We don't trust anyone. But the reading is, is De Palma just like the ultimate cynic? Where he's like, it doesn't matter.

The machine of power will operate however it wants and they'll get away with whatever they want. I mean, that's my interpretation. Sure. Sure. If you work hard enough and you build enough of a case, you might lose your partner or the person you're falling in love with or something, but you can learn the truth. You can discover what's real. Like, I think that's an amazing binary.

It's both, right? Let's go to conspiracy Chris for the final verdict. I mean, I think that the end of the movie is tragic. I think at the end of the movie, he's at once right and it also doesn't matter. And then the news report is just like a serial killer was finally stopped. It's nothing about McReyn. It's nothing about who Sally was. It's nothing about Travolta being there.

It's not, nothing gets uncovered about Burke. They get away with it. All right. I'm going to ask all three of you and you have short answers. Okay. This is the best conspiracy movie ever, Sean. Have we ever done better than this? I mean, I prefer the Pekula trilogy as like a statement.

Like, include all the president's men and then Parallax View, which is the one that, like, in the last 10 years or so, has become the most resonant to me. That's the movie that has probably grown the most in my estimation personally in the last 10 years. It's the most ridiculous of the three. It's crazy. And it's a really cool counterpoint to this movie, which is really practical. But similar story about a guy like,

really hunting for the truth the whole time and feeling the forces converging on him. And I also just love JFK. I love a person who's just like, I'm opening my vein. Listen. Listen. Listen. I was just watched that two weeks ago. I wrote a long thing that never wound up.

I turned into one sentence and in a larger piece. But I had the most fun watching that movie because it is the most honest depiction. of what has happened in this country in the last 60 years, right? This idea of, I mean, I'm just going to say what JFK is about.

JFK is about some white supremacist's bullshit. And Oliver Stone knows it. All these guys are hypocrites and all they want to do is the opposite of what they are saying should be done. Right.

Right? The idea that you've just got a bunch of like homophobic homosexuals, who also have control over every lever of power determining whether or not we should know what happened to the president of the United States of America? It's wild to be.

So JFK is your pick. Which your pick? Presidents. Which one? Presidents. All the presidents. I mean, I'm just with Sean on JFK. I think that the ambition of JFK and the naked,

well, it's not, I mean, the insanity of it, Right? It is like, and yet there's such a rigor. It's as rigorously made as it blowout. So that's the thing. This movie, the Pakula movies, the conversation, whatever, like, whatever your favorites are of all those films, those movies, those movies are about a person exploring a conspiracy. JFK is a conspiracy. Yes.

Yes. It is literally a rendition of what's in his head about what happens. And there are not a lot of movies like that. There are some really cool movies from that. time like, I want to say is it Twilight's Last gleaming? And there's also like executive action. There are a series of movies that are more like action movies from

the 60s and 70s that are much more like work a day procedural. Like if the president was overthrown, here's how it would happen. There's some of the most fun movies ever made. They're ridiculous. Yes, executive action is wonderful. But those movies are actually closer to JFK because they're like showing you. Yeah. If something was

going to happen, here's how it would happen. And that makes JFK very different, I think, from the movies that we talk about and celebrate the most. That doesn't mean blowout isn't incredible. It is incredible. But it's as much about the technical aspect. Yeah. This is my favorite conspiracy thriller.

It's just not my favorite conspiracy movie. I have a second. Okay. I like presidents, you know, I love it. That's like... That's a perfect movie.

What's weird, though, is that blowout kind of, and maybe because blowout didn't do well, the conspiracy error kind of ends. Mm-hmm. And we go basically through the 80s with... Yeah. I don't know. The 80s just shifts into...

I'm a big believer in the, like, I'm one of those sad people who, like, enjoys looking at our popular culture through the lens of who's in the White House. Right. And obviously, Reagan comes into, Reagan is inaugurated six months after, six months before this movie comes out. Yeah. And, you know, he sets the priority. The nation is responding to a set of changed priorities, right? Carter was too negative. He was, he was, there was too much doom and gloom.

And, you know, Nixon was Nixon. It was like all, everything was a conspiracy in his mind and as it turns out in the administration. And there's something about what Reagan offered, like, like morning in America. It's like, and that's what that's what the culture kind of became, right? It became this celebration and there's a return of these old 40s and 50s values in the 80s, right? If you look at every movie we got, there's some tension. between tradition and progress. Right?

And it's built, like the river through which those two ideas run is capitalism. And so to that point, like I think what shifts is that it moves away from political conspiracy to sort of like a corporate conspiracy. Like Silkwood comes out like a couple of years later. That's a good example of a movie that. When's China syndrome is that? That's 79. It's in the same league where it's sort of like it's about a corporation that did something that hurt. people and they're trying to cover it up and that

there's a difference between that and the presidency or the Congress trying to cover something up or the CIA. They're related and they're all about power, but I think like the corporate 80s is a good example of like the interest in these kinds of stories shifting. But it was a cell of, I mean, at some point a movie like that

becomes rare, right? Silkwood, Silkwood is a rare movie. Mostly what you get is, I was saying this to yesterday, the farm movie, the like, the collapse of the American agricultural like the sort of the small small agriculture, mom and pop

agriculture in the face of agribusiness right? The celebration and glorification of corporate ness, corporate power, the idea that there was so many movies about bumpkins coming in to the corporate

structure and doing a better job than old white men who'd been in it for a long time. Michael J. Fox, Bette Miller and Lily Tomlin. Trading place. Fox again. Eddie Murphy, Eddie Murphy, you know, on Dan Aykroyd's back with Jamie Lee Curtis. Like all of these people who had previously been locked outside the power structure, a lot of these 80s movies.

Well, Michael J. Fox, well, he's an Iowan, right? He's a farm kid who can't wait to get to the big city in Secret of My Success. And like basically fucks his way to the top, you know? All of these movies are about Wall Street is essentially that but with a ceiling. Early 90s, it comes back, but in a different way. In a different way. Like that Clint Eastwood, what was that, in the line of fire? Yeah, and then like the Grishin books touch on it.

The firm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's more commercialized. Let's take a break and we'll talk about Travolta. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, ter's appetite.

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Sunday performance joggers that they have, it's made with four-way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to viori.com slash simmons, and you get 20% off your first purchase with Viori.v, V-U-O-R-I-com slash simmons. Enjoy free shipping on all U.S. orders over $75, plus free returns, exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. So Travolta is probably the biggest under 35 star in the world. Saturday Night Fever Greaves, Urban Cowboy, this movie comes out, doesn't do well.

He turns down officer and a gentleman goes to Richard Gere. Turns down Splash, goes to Tom Hanks. Oh my God. Decides to do staying alive with Slice Stallone bombs. By 1985... He turned down Splash? Yeah. He would have been perfect in Splash!

Yeah. Does two of a kind with Olivia New John? Oh, God. Oh, Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. And perfect in 1985. And his career is over as a movie star. You also, we mentioned this obviously on a previous episode, but he also, before this, turned down American Gigolo. Yep.

Right. So a combination of turned down a couple of the wrong roles. Oh, my God. I think flew too close to the sun, which people, they're going to start rooting against a little bit. Did he fly too close? Did he just have a bad agent? There's a lot.

I mean, the conspiracy theory is that, like, Scientology became a big part of his life at this time. I don't even think it's a theory. in directions in terms of the kinds of films that it makes, which makes this movie even weirder. The fact that he made this movie in the throes of that period of his life. He just seems like such a normal guy in this movie. Totally.

That's the thing. And, well, God, this is... And his hair seemed... Beautiful. Yeah, great. No, I mean... Cuff. Yeah.

I... Go on, Bill. Well, his comeback is in Pulp Fiction in 1994, a long way. I mean, he has a couple of... The Luke Who's Talking. Yeah, yeah. As, like, somebody who would be the leading... man and a big movie with the great director. But Tarantino loves blowout

and that's how he ends up in Pulp Fiction because he's like I'll ride with Geralta until the end. This is my guy. And that kicks off a comeback that is like, there are very few comparisons to them. One of the very great. Even if you don't like all those movies. Like face off and Shorty

and Michael and Phenomenon and he was back. He was fully back. We wanted to go to the movies to watch this person. He was opening movies. Broken Arrow. He's playing the villain. Like he was doing stuff. I'm getting chills again. It was a great one. Broken Era. Whenever you want.

Just name the time and the place. Our girl Mathis? Oh, Samantha Mathis. High 90s? That's what I think of when I think of Broken Arrow. John Wu, not Slater. Slater? It's Mathis.

It's Mathis. It's directed by John Wu. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Samantha Mathis. Oh, I miss that. So one of the legacies of blowout for me is it's just so confusing that all the great directors we had at this point, right? The guys from the 70s.

moving into this decade and that just none of them looked at Travolta is this treasure to be like what else is in here I think you're gonna get to the end of the non-day November and we're gonna realize

we're saying the same thing over and over again maybe not in the moment but we just did cruising it's just that like they just stopped making movies like this yeah they just stopped like these guys

all these guys wanted to make real money so like they either disappear or they get bigger and they start doing bigger movies or more Hollywood movies or whatever these directors fall out of fashion

unless they change with the times. Like, think about what fucking happens in the naughty November movies. These are dark. My wife last night was like, she's dead? You spend all this time with Nancy Allen only to realize she's not going to run off

with John Travolta. She's going to get psychos. I shirk my side every time. I'm like, oh yeah, she shows up in the last scene. It's like, no, it's her ghost voice that shows up in the last scene. Well, that was one of the reasons people this movie didn't hit. the ending was so disturbing people were like, what the fuck?

Not strong word of mouth. No. I never have been more bummed out leaving a movie theater. Don't go to that movie. I want to linger in the the 80s that didn't happen for John Travolta.

Because if you think about it for the kind of, the person you're watching in this movie, he could have done everything Tom Hanks did. I was going to ask you, who were his market correctors? And in heels, I might add.

He could have. have done he could have done romancing the stone he could have done Beverly Hills cop he could have done every single movie

every single star driven movie that happened in the 1980s he could have done he could have done amadeus yeah like he I mean

with I mean I'm glad Tom Hulse did it like I don't want to take anything from Eddie Murphy I'm just saying there's nothing

that I can't imagine this guy doing in that decade of all the all the hits Fred Astaire and Jimmy Stewart and the same person

Like he could have done in any movie, literally any movie. Yes. And the idea that there was no place for him. Purple rain. Maybe not Purple. Man Hunter? Why not? Man Hunter.

He could have done it. Oh my God. He definitely could have done a man Hunter. He could have done anything. He would have been amazing in Manhunter. But you know what I think. I think, I mean, aside from the fact that he, in the beginning of the decade, turned down some stuff.

If you watch a movie like perfect, it's, he's great in that movie. Like, he's exactly what. you want a movie star to do? Two of a kind. Same thing. I think perfect's a little underrated. I'm just going to put that out there. Listen, I love... There's some real young winner acting in perfect. It's... I mean, he has scenes. He's many scenes.

I think that... I kind of like perfect, too. It's pretty good. He just got unlucky. He just got unlucky. Can anyone in this room name two movies that John Travolta has made in the last 10 years? Last 10 years. Does he make like Red Box Thrullers now?

Two movies. Oh, oh, oh. Well, does the one, the Paris one count? the one where he's bald and like an assassin in Paris? I think that's 2009 or 10. I'm asking you to name the film. I can't name probably Bruce Willis was in a couple

of them, right? Zombie Bruce Wallace. I mean, think about that. How crazy that is that you can't name. I mean, the one that I think most people would be able to get would be Gotti, which was kind of a joke because of how bad it was. Like a legendary all-time terrible. You were talking about from Paris with Love, which is 2010. Yeah. But I mean, I am wrath,

speed kills, trading paint, the poison rose. What are these movies. This is the movie star of 1977. The movie star. Yeah, but like he shouldn't be acting in movies 50 years into a career. Like Redford, Paul Newman, these guys went away.

What are you talking about? Paul Newman like never stopped acting. But Troubota looks crazy now. Yes. He's got like he's got a different hair, wig thing in every movie. He's got this giant moon face. He doesn't even look like Trowalta. Yeah, I'm with you. But that's not the point because when it's, when he's on, he's

like when it works like that does not a thing you turn off right like he still got access to that at some point it's over you're not a leading man I don't agree the last big thing he did was savages with Oliver Stone which was not a hit but was you know a big studio movie yeah and

I mean he's just he's out of the rotation it's just and it's the same thing that happened in the 80s just happen him again I think that like you know I think it's fun losing a wife the Adina Menzel thing adina Mazeem whatever that's the

thing is even when that happened, he was still doing junk thrillers, but they were still inviting him to the Oscars. That's such a paradox. That very rarely happens. But it means it's, like, it speaks to the legacy that we all know he has. He's only 68. He's not 80. Like, he's not that old. And 10 years ago, he was 58. So you're calling another, another comeback. Oh, the last good thing he was eating was, was he was Robert Shapiro and the OJ thing. He was good at that. It's weird. He didn't really get like a bump off of that. He probably should just go make prestige TV, but I think... I agree.

Yeah. Maybe the perfect rewatchables that we do, that'll get it back when we do perfect. I want to do it. I was good. Please call on me.

I thought you were saying this is the perfect rewatchables. I have so many James Bridges takes, you can't even believe it. I've been on the James Bridges run for the last five years. Was it only you can answer this question. How much of Travolta's

off-the-screen life as we head into the 80s, early 80s, and rumors about what he was like and all that stuff. Do you think that affected people casting them? I always wonder. I always wonder. I think the Scientology thing

didn't help, I don't think. I think that all of the conversations about like what else was going on in his private life, I don't know if they they had never reached. I mean, I was a kid

when this stuff was happening. And so were you. Like there was no... I didn't know anything. There was no way it could have reached me but I assume because like now as an adult you hear all these you hear all these stories

and I don't even know what the stories are but they're like you know John Travolta was you know doing the following 13 things that were odd

that in this town in well even like when we did American Gigolo Schrader was on the record he was like yeah I think Travolta got

spooked by the park because he was so deep in the closet at the time it's like whoa yeah you're putting that out in the world yeah I mean, okay.

I don't know. If the traders on the record is saying it, then yes, we can discuss this. I was wonder if there was like a leading man bias against him with some of the Hollywood infrastructure because. But the funny thing is. He turned down, Splash and an officer and a gentleman. He just made those movies. He's fine. We'd be talking about a different career.

He just didn't make those movies. And you think about this. Offer Turner and a gentleman is not Richard Geer's movie. It's Deborah Winger and Lou Gossett's movie. Yeah, definitely. It's that songs movie. Richard Gear is fundamentally, and I haven't listened to y'all talk about American Gigolo yet,

I'm looking forward to it. There's a void in Richard Gear. Oh, I think that's part of his sort of, that's his pitch. Until internal affairs. Yeah. Right. Then he's incredibly present. Yeah.

The look that Chris and Bill just shared, for those of you cannot see. We're certainly. No. That was magic. I think maybe naughty gear, November next year Final Fear

Internal Affairs Year April Yeah I got nowhere else to go Couldn't get my legs up You're right Vacant Beauty I think that if Travolta

Those are different Like imagine urban cowboy With Richard Gear I think he could have done the Scott Glenn part Yes Yeah But he could not have done We're in the corner

We like when Richard Gere is a scumbag who might fuck anybody's wife. He only works as like something villainous. Like think about Chicago, right? The most fun he has ever had in a movie. And that character is a protagonist, but like, he's a scumbag. So he gets Mark, so Travolta gets marked and corrected a little by Richard Gear, by Hanks. Yeah.

And eventually by Costner, because no way out as a movie he would have been in. Yeah, there's a world in which, like, Travolta could be in Field of Dreams. You know what I mean? Yeah. Wow, that would have been amazing. I think so. I mean, I guess it's movies go on. I buy that.

He could not have done Bull Durham, but I think he could have done Field of Dreams. Wait a minute. I think he could have done Bull Durham not Field of Dreams. I wouldn't have to have him. Because the character. You'd have to tell. You could have hit him as the catcher because he had the equipment on him. They hit Janssy Rattley and from over the game.

He doesn't really look like a guy who grew up playing baseball. I don't know. They're just, that seems like there's basketball. He's very live. He's dancerly. Did he look like a guy who? is going to be able to put together a piece of sound?

Wait, how about this? But he looks like a guy from Philadelphia. That's fair. What about Travolta and Die Hard? A hundred percent. I think he could have to be able to do that. That was probably his miss was not jumping on some sort of cool action

movie in that 86 to 88 range. He clearly was relished it when he got back in the 90s and we had a bunch of them. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing, again, I just want to say that he made two he made two mistakes

in not taking officers. gentleman in splash. Well, you should take an American jiggle out too. That was a mistake. I would have rather seen him do that than Urban Cowboy. Because that movie, the movie itself has so many problems that I don't know. The movie didn't want what Travolta would have given it. I think that that would have been an unhappy alliance.

Because Schrader isn't interested in stardom. He's just not. He wants voids to hang all his ideas on. Richard Gere is a great mannequin for a director with ideas. Yeah. Travolta is his own thing, and you can hang ideas off of him, but he's got his own idea.

Yeah, that's why blowouts, to me, a better movie than American Jigolo is. A way better movie, right? It's a great one. It's the combination of De Palma's intellectual kind of engagement with the material, and Travolta being like,

that's cool, they're going to be watching me. Yeah. Right, yeah. Because, you know, think about, like, the thing that really drew me in with this blowout performance, with this blowout performance, is that a lot of the things

that Travolta has to say aren't very deep or meaningful. But his line readings, I don't even know if he was shown a script. I don't know if the words were whispered to him before he said them, but he is in every moment. Every one of my rewatchable scenes,

I have like a little side note that's like, and then he does this, which I don't even know if it's in the script. I love when he's being questioned after he saves her in a house. Yes, that sequence. That sequence.

Because it's all, it's every single one of these scenes. It's just like he's so fucking good. It's one of the greatest I don't even know what to call. He's like, are you fucking kidding me? Right, yeah. He's so, what are we doing here?

He's so present. The way he's, the way he's, you know what the line is? It's like, when he's like, who are you? Right. Because the guy's like, look, we're going to have to fucking, you're just going to have to like forget this girl exists. He's like, who are you? You know what I mean?

Like, you're this guy in a suit and it talks. I'm in the ER. I was in the bottom of a creek and now you're telling. And you buy it so much. You buy it. He's so. in the moment in every single scene in this movie. It's a not really remake, but inspired by,

his 1966 blow-up? Yep. What do you call those when it's like a... It's like a reimagining. It's an inspiration. It's an homage. I mean, it's literally shifting the idea from the eye to the ear. You know, that's what he's doing.

It's also a way better movie than blow up. Yeah, but I think it's a good example of like what a movie like blow up. does is it just influences an entire generation of filmmakers, right? And that's why it's a movie that is considered legendary is because people pulled so many ideas out of that movie, even if re-watching that movie is not necessarily the No, they got everything that we need to know about

blow up is it knows somebody else's movie. We don't have to go back to it. Do you want 70 seconds on Tama's relationship with guilt in movies? Yes. We did that quick. Just the top of your head. Jukebox A3. Oh, Sean.

Yeah, Joe Box A3. Um. I don't know. I'm not sure that I'm like as hung up on that theme with him, honestly, because he's like a guy who grew up watching his father literally like cut people up as a surgeon. And so he's like, the world is full of blood and messiness and like shattered bone. And it's tough out there, you know? And people make mistakes and we should show what those mistakes are. And that's why his movies are very grim and gruesome and very physical. and he obviously is obsessed with Hitchcock, and that's well known if you're a fan of his work. But I think he is, he makes it a point to say, I can go even further than what Hitch did.

I can show you even more than what he did. As far as the guilt goes, I don't know, I just think he's like the ultimate cynic. You know, like, especially if you look at his movies in the last 20 years. Like, they're all just like,

America is garbage, marriage is a lie, you know, like, people just want to fucking murder each other. People are disgusting. I mean, he has a war. Why are we?

He's just like, he made Scarface. He's just like, all power is corrupting. People are bad. Like, you know, I agree. Right. So I just find all that stuff really resonates with me. But the thing about De Palma is that makes him different from all these other directors. Maybe not the ones in his class from the 70s.

But all the directors who inspired him is that he's essentialist. Right. Oh, like, well, I would say for all of the De Palma platform, about the sort of corruption and depravity of the world, he's like, but you know what's good? Movies. Yeah. Well, also women.

Yeah. Like, sex. I'm super into hot girls. Like, he'll say that to this day. Yeah. But it's not just for their own sake, right? He's a, like, think about the way blowout opens. Right?

It's got that great fake out. Right. Go ahead frenzy? Where you think you're watching like Halloween. It looks like Black Christmas. Yeah. It looks like it's a slasher movie. And it's a slightly ridiculous.

slasher movie is those movies were. I mean, he really understands the kind of like comic cadence of those slasher films. He's like, don't lump me in with these people a little bit. Oh, yeah. I mean carry, but I don't make these movies. Right, yeah. Let's be, let's make no mistake. Right. But he's almost like if I did,

they'd be really good. He's like, check out this fucking steady cam shot. I got you. Yeah. This is good enough to convince you that I made this. Every time I start blow out, I'm like, does co-it frenzy exist? Can I get that? Or what?

It's really solid. Yeah. But the thing that, the, the, the way that opens with the, with the knife being in the frame and like, you know, he's kind of like, you know, first, first person player game, whatever, like around the corner. The POV shot, yeah. There is an interest there not only in the bait and switch, but there's a pleasure in in slipping on the clothing of a shitty trash movie.

Yeah. Right. And then to like say, psych, I'm taking off my Halloween costume now and I'm going to be this other kind of movie that is also like its own work of trash. Right. And I think the difference between someone like Hitchcock who also was interested, who had the same priorities. But he, De Palma is a voluptuary, right? Like he wants to inhabit the forbidden pleasure. The luxury.

Right. First time we've heard that word. Is that a word? It's a fucking Harvard. It's a hell of word. Dropping his Harvard on it. So I went to the other one So just to be like just to end this

I think that there's something Like I really love something like carry You know the way it indulges the The filmmaking indulges the horror right Yeah it's not like this bad thing happens to this girl The blood falls from the you know And then she goes home and her mother gives it like The fight at the end of that movie

And the like the craftsmanship in the delivery of the fight the fury. Like, this is a person who loves, who takes great pleasure in the surgery, right? And, like, he loves. He's blowing John Cassavetti's head up at the end of the fury. He's like, let's splatter everything. Yeah. It's great.

I just, that is the fun of him. The De Niro at the, in the Untouchables, both the Odessa step sequence in the train station and, you know, the baseball bat sequence, right? Like, all the pleasure that's taken in the violence and in the suspense. Can we litigate the Oscars in 1980? too. Oh, boy. Chariots of Fire wins.

Yep. Other nominees were Atlantic City on Golden Pond, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Reds. Pretty good year. Yeah. Pretty good year. Maybe you bump Atlantic City, but Burntland Castor had a lot of...

It's a great movie. That's a really good movie. I don't know. The other three aren't getting bumped. No. Actually, probably Charite's a fire is probably the weekends, but that movie is a phenomenon. Cherrys of Fire overrots is trash.

The cat's got to be fucking kidding me That movie was a thing Yeah, it was I was old enough to remember It was a thing Yeah It was like clearly gonna win the last year Yeah no I remember that

I remember So we would all bump chariots of fire If we had to do that over again Yeah I don't like on Golden Pond Personally that's not a movie I care Yeah both of those It's a very sudden have a heart

I don't I don't Have you watched it in Golden Pond recently? It's a great one It's about people get on it Stop it's good I'm old I would be thrilled No no no

I mean on Golden Pines is such a like, like, it's such a sleeping pill. Yeah. I watched it

six months ago. I couldn't believe it. I found it and Catherine Hepburn. I get it. Come on. But like, it's,

best director. It looks great. But it's, Warren Beatty wins for Reds. Mm-hmm. Louis Malle. Louis Malle. Louis Malle.

Louis Malle. It's not Mali. He's French. Louis Malle. Yeah. Louis Moll. Hugh Huff. That was hot.

Mark Raddell on Golden Pond. Whoa. Steve Spielberg. Steve. I forgot Mark Roddell was nominated for Best Director. Over Mark. This is the best directed movie of 1981. Raiders of the Lost Star.

Okay. The one and a half best directed movie. They're right there. They're neck and neck. And they're the ones, you know, I think Reds has kind of endured, but most people don't actually watch it because it's so long.

It's a feat. It's a feat. It's a feat. It's a feat. But look. Wait, so we're bumping Reddell. Oh, for sure. DeFama's in there.

And Hugh Hudson, I wouldn't mind seeing him go either. I agree. Best actor, Henry Fonda on Golden Pond. Yes. Warren Beatty Reds. Lancaster, Atlantic City. Dudley Moore and Arthur. Yes, that's a no-brainer.

Paul Newman, absence of malice. Oh, yeah. That's good. Gallagher! I can't believe you, Gallagher. I can't believe you set me help. Who are we bumping from that? For Tramota.

Sidney Pollock is another name. Oh, Henry Fonda. He made a lot of movies like this too. Yeah, I mean, Henry Fonda. But that's because Henry Fonda had never won. So, Henry Fonda won at the end of the jury. Yeah, you're right. I mean, from the people that are.

Henry Fonda. Henry Fonda. Sorry. Henry Fonda is a fucking incredible actor, and it should have won like multiple times. Beside the point. Yeah. They finished film in the movie and he just dropped out of the deck.

But Bill, if you're going to start doing that, you got to do it. Every time we do these weird Oscar conversations, we're acting like we're actually changing the Oscars. And you got to start giving all these old guys, they're Oscars. Because sometimes you'll be like, this fucking guy, he's 72, who cares? And now you're like, Henry Fonda's substack writer. Oh, boy.

Are you bumping? That's a great performance. He's so good. That movie is so bad, by the way. It's just not a good movie. If you watched that recently, he could. Did he get nominated for the version? It's not very sensitive to the modern conventions of journalism.

Or women who practice it. I mean, Sally Field, first of all, I don't believe Sally Field has ever smoked anything. And all she... I don't remember that. She's smoking this movie. She smokes more than he does. It's such a weird movie. It's a really messy story.

Yeah. That's what he was nominated. 18 million dollar budget made 13 million. 18 million dollars. Coming off of Dress the Kill being a smash. Massive hit. The master of the macabre and him. getting that, you know, becoming a well-known, really well-known director at that point, too.

Reinvented Angie Dickinson. But why do we think it didn't do well? I think it's because of what Bill said. It's just like, you walk out of the movie here and you're like, fuck me. This is brutal. I mean, it's so sad. Well, I'll give you some reviews. Okay.

Roger Ebert, four stars. Hell yeah. Derouad is inhabited by a real cinematic intelligence. The audience is in condescended to. We share the excitement of figuring out how things develop and unfold when so often the movies only need us as passive witnesses. The two, the, the Siskel and Ebert of this movie is just nine minutes

of these guys just being like, for horn dogs, this movie rules. It's one of the great Pauline Kale raves of all time. Pauline Kale has, yeah, yep, yep. De Palme has sprung to the place that Robert Autman achieved the films such as McCabe and Mrs. Miller in Nashville. And that Francis Ford Coppola

reached with the Godfather films, the place where genres transatlantic transcended. And what we're moved by is an artist's vision. It's a great movie. Travolta and Alan are radiant performers.

She liked it. Nancy Allen hasn't come up yet. We'll get there. Well, we're getting there. Okay. All right. Let's, uh, one more break. We'll do the categories. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one

less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com. And to your license plate or VIN and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth. no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer?

Accept it. Schedule pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. All right, we're going to zip through these because we're way beyond schedule. Most rewatchable scene.

The car accident, as he's doing this sound, the owl under the bridge. Oh, I should have put the co-ed frenzy. The first five minutes of this movie and the first five minutes of Goodfellas are my two favorite openings. Wow. Yeah. And it's the same setup where it's like a scene and then like a real powerful title sequence. And this going from Code Frenzy to the editing booth to blow out. Yeah.

Again, another great title sequence. Like when like dear filmmakers of 2020, if you're making a movie. Feel free. And you've got a decent title. Give it to me. Bring your title on me. Cover me with your title. Co-in Frenzy also won a bonus award for the Dracula

The Musical Award for Best Invitations of Real Art. That's a good winner. Also, some great fake titles, the posters in the office. I want to do that later. I want to do like all the... Can I just do it now? Yeah, sure. Okay. Bloodbath?

Yeah. Bloodbath too. Yeah. Bad day at blood. Blood Beach, Bordella of Blood and Coed Frenzy. All, let's think about this. All those films in two years. What a prodigious output. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Philadelphia Slee's House. I would have probably enjoyed all of those movies. There's also all the posters on the wall. We haven't even mentioned those. There's 10 more movies that they have created fake posters for. There's a great stuff. When they're doing the girls auditioning the screams, one of the posters behind is the lure of the triangle,

and it's just the front of someone's underwear. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, also, there's a thing that we have not discussed yet, and I don't know when we bring this up, because we're kind of in the different... Well, why don't you let me host the podcast? You don't even know what I was going to say. But I'll find it in a way to jam it in there.

You'll have your spot. Hey, Billy, what's the next rewatchable scene, bud? Car accident. The owl. Yeah. Jesus Christ. The guy under the bridge, you're like, wait, was that a guy moving? I just noticed him for the first time on this viewing, and it's the 13th.

team time I watch this movie. He's at the bottom and he goes up. TVs are better and the prints are better and you can actually see better shit now. It's Franz, right? Yeah, yeah. Mani Corp. The car accident's great.

Obvious Chappaquitic ripoff. Chappaquitic, one of the most fascinating events of the last 50 plus years. Where's the chapquitic pod? For the movie? No, for you. Three hours about Chappaquatic. I don't even know, is there a pod to be had?

Like, he drove off a bridge and killed a girl and swam away. Is there even a conspiracy? No. But just to tell the story. It's a great what if. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a great what if. Because it's, you know, that effectively ends his national political profile. Here's the counter to the what if. If it wasn't that night, it was going to be another night. I think for all mankind, I think Chapman doesn't happen. Actually. If what? In for all mankind that show Chapchap.

It doesn't happen. Yeah. And he's like, I think he's president. If I remember correctly. Oh, interesting. Who do you have McRey and? Ted Kennedy if you had to throw your way. So is McRyons supposed to be McGovern?

Like who, like is, is there like a parallel or? It's 1980 McRyron, so it's probably, I don't know. It feels like just Ted Kennedy 10 years later. Okay. Yeah. Hospital, McRyans guy tells us for both to keep his mouth shut. I don't know. Can't you keep your mouth shut?

It's better the governor died alone. I just don't know if I can do that. I mean, I was there. there and... Gives a damn that you were there! You want to tell his wife that he died with his hand up some girl's dress? Maybe you'd rather she read it in the papers. Well, that is what happened. I mean, that is the truth, isn't it?

What difference does that make to you? You want to tell his wife that he died with his hand up some girl's dress? Love the 70s, right? That's just how they explain stuff? It's also just like... It's like, yeah, I don't want that. Yeah, let's just cover it up instead. We don't want his wife to find out. I wonder if they would have gone to greater lengths to muzzle him in real life.

I think he probably he gets it. There's no movie. I think his car probably blows up. Wesley mentioned Travolta cutting the photos and turning into a homemade video. That's such a cool. The making the film strip. Oh my God. It's just so cool. I also like when he makes the

actual shooting video, which I guess is a separate scene from that, but those two together kind of like You mentioned the spinning shot when the tapes are erased. Just a heat check back to... I'm levitating when I watch it. He's taking threes from 36 feet. And all of the reels are going around and around and around in the room

and the camera is going around and around and around and your head is spinning. You're just literally. It's also a sound... You're dizzy. Yeah. It's such a brilliant, like Chris was saying, such a brilliant idea for an idea in your movie.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This isn't necessarily re-watchable, but it's a really cool scene. when Lithgow murders the hooker on the train. It's definitely rewatchable. Yeah. I mean, it's not fun to watch John Lithgow kill somebody,

but it's just like so well-crafted. It's special resonance for this half of the table, though, because it goes to the gallery and terminal market. It's really, I mean, also. They hang her a jersey over the stall, or no? Oh, my God. Wow. It's like a direct sequel to a lot of the stuff in Dress the Kill, too.

Yeah. You know, the sort of pursuit of the victim. He loves, yeah, he loves the follow. Yeah, yeah. Because then in the De Palma documentary, because I love Body Double, probably more than most, but he's following Deborah Shelton in the mall for like an hour. That's a long sequence.

He's like, oh, now it's Spencer Gifts. Yeah, yeah. Cool, we're at Macy's. It just never ends. Yeah, there's, I mean, again, he's just like, the sensual, the sensualist in him, sometimes there's a line that he is trying, he wants to cross him.

It used to, yeah. Full-fledged horny voyer. I was going to say, I feel like it's beyond sensual. You know, Centro. That's the closing of the line, right? Like, De Palma is like, I want to fuck this woman on camera. It's through it. He's a boy.

He's a boy. Well, that's the body double, the fact that he really wanted to cast the Net Haven. In Body Double, yeah. As Holly Body and Body Double in the studio, basically, they all had to like have an intervention. We're not fucking making the movie. You have to get a real actress. It's not fucking happening. But then it turns into the best thing that ever happened to Melanie Griffith.

And it's just scene after scene of just her being ogled through a fucking window. But she knows she's being watched, which is what makes that performance so good. That movie's amazing. Two more, the extended Nancy Allen kind of getting murdered scene. Jack going through America, right? There's fireworks. It's department store windows. He's in Philly.

He's in middle everything. It's this person just getting murdered. And we get fireworks. Yeah, it's the ringing of the Liberty Bell. The Ring of the Liberty Bell. It's Liberty Day. This patriotic event. It's based on something that they did for the bicentennial.

So that's the, and I feel like that is really important to go back to what we're talking about the 70s is it just feels like a movie set in 1976. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a movie set in 1981. And it feels like it's the bicentennial celebration is what's happening. You know, it's like the Mummers Parade is earlier. in the film, but it feels like he's pulling it on something that happened in the past

to set this sequence, as opposed to something that's happening in the contemporary time. And then the ending. It's a good scream. It's a good scream. It's a good scream. Well, that was what I wanted to mention. Go. Bill.

Yeah. I knew we'd get there. It's just... Have faith in the host sometimes. Like, I... Nothing but faith in you, Bill. This movie tells you what. it is in the first

I mean I might start crying is how like good this is it tells you this is a movie about a guy who's just trying to get the perfect screen and we as an audience know that like the other joke in that opening sequence

is like the way we know we're watching a movie like footage from a movie is not when they cut the Travolta and the director in the in the studio or in the theater talking about what needs to be fixed, it's when we hear a scream that we in the audience know,

oh my God. What? That's not going to work. That is a song. And so this is a guy who is out looking for a scream. The perfect scream. And he gets it. And he seems to forget that he's looking for it.

And I think that the, there's just something so. perversely moving in in the in the rightness of that ending and like although some people would say that's pretty gross that he used the dead lady scream

I'm not one of those people not in this world though yeah not in this world I think it's like a sends the message that he has been like fully obliterated yeah yes you know because his whole point is like

if they can do this then what like what's the point of anything yeah so at the end he's just like, I've been destroyed, so I'm going to use this thing that happened. I'm dead inside anyway. Which are your most rewatchable scenes here? I think probably the 30th Street Station,

the whole sequence of him, of Burke The Philly and you. You love it. Burt killing the quote-unquote wrong girl again. Yeah. I have a lot of points about that. And then him finally taking Sally and Travolta listening to the whole thing, trying to find them.

Yeah, the moment that he sees Sally on the building and she is exclaiming, and then we see him racing in slow motion to get up to the top of the building and then all the way up until her death, Lithgow's death, holding her arms as the fireworks are going off. And then the cut, hard cut to the theater is like all world, like all century movie making for me. The Pino DiNaggio score is unbelievable in that sequence. That's like take your breath away.

Like, holy shit. That's the only time the music is really working for me is that sequence. Yeah. That's the, that's the high point in that sequence. score. I like my most rewatchable is when he cuts the photos and makes the video just watching the process. I enjoy that the most. What do you got was? Same. Same.

What stage is the best. We mentioned Travolta right before he gets 80s weird. It's kind of the end of a some sort of era with him starting with Welcome Back Cotter all the way through blowout. This ends era number one for John Trowto. The scene where he takes Sally to the bar when he stops her from getting on the train and he's like come I come have a drink with me. You're like this guy is pretty fucking cool. Yeah.

And he's like letting her do the makeup and he's just like, I'm flirting with her and stuff. Like, it's awesome. You're just like, this is, and that is also a guy where you be, if you were in a bar, you wouldn't be like, what's this guy doing here? He's just, it seems like a guy having a beer at 4 in the afternoon in a Trin Station bar. Yeah. I have, we mentioned movie characters who are world class at unique jobs. It's a fucking favorite. Yeah.

C.R., this one's for you. What's age the best? The days when someone could threaten to go on the local news. Oh. Yeah. I'll do it. I'll fucking go. I'll go on the 6 o'clock.

I'll tell the whole fucking world. Now it's like you could do that and nobody would find out for three days unless there was also a car chase. Or you just tweet it out. My mom's like, car chase, channel 5. I have some questions about Frank Donahue that I'll hold. Yeah, yeah. What's age the best? Early 80s Philly.

Yeah. It's great stuff. Great times. Yeah. I mean. Got Rocky Balbo in his prime. Michael Jack Schmidt. Yeah.

Well, Doc. Yeah. Ron Jaworski and Diffra. It's a great looking city. Reggie White right around the corner. The flyers still banging. Yeah. Then they go all over in this.

They go up to West Hickon Creek. They go to Pennsylvania. Elton John, Philadelphia Freedom. He's all, well, we'll go. I mean, I think the thing that I love about this movie is that it really, it's just, it's got a sense of place and the place happens to be Philadelphia. Right? The idea that it's like 30th Street Station, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it's got a sense of place, Reading Terminal and that like the action is set there like

Something weird takes an ice pit from the fish Right from the yeah Probably my family's fish place yeah Like there's two fish places there now I feel about the town I don't know what there's the thing if you know The Redding Terminal Market when they walk in you know exactly what I've seen Smells like the other other thing is there's no cheating

Like all the matches on action like result in you being in the place you would be when the cut happens for what it's worth. You guys probably don't care, but like when he walks out, it's like, yeah, that's the outside of the train station. It's not like he walks out and he's like all of a sudden downtown. The way they treat Los Angeles where it's just cut up into a million different pieces to suit whatever the plot needs. Expect nothing less from De Palma.

The city is dictating the action. Not like Michael Mann playing the action. It was getting from the airport to downtown in 20 minutes. Honestly, great point. Thank you for saying so. You being the Michael Mann-Legian on this podcast. What's taste your best? Early France?

Early. Can't be beat. I mean, he's literally just running back the character from Dresna, France, France. Just also, just like, you can't, you could take like a can of turpentine. You couldn't strip the Chicago of that guy. Let me tell you something. Another thing about me, I have like very high quality film stock. They do a lot of shooting at night.

A lot of night work. What saves the best? Manny Carp. What a name. Sean, the split-focused diopter lens? The split diopter, yeah. Yeah. What about it?

It's a fucking amazing tool that he uses better than anybody. How about De Palma's love for putting fake movies and his real movies? Yeah, it's great. I still think the body double, Frankie goes to Hollywood. It's just like such an all-time flex. That's deep, too. I mean, he's like music videos. People like those.

What if I made a music video that was also a porno? He's like, what if I make a music video that's better than all the music videos? You idiots are watching on TV. And all the porn that you're watching too, right? He's great. You guys are making me love him even more. I have another What's Age the Best, but it's an award. the Chess Rockwell Award for great names.

Governor George McReyn. Great name. That's really good. I'd be so fired up if I'd just thought of that name if I was writing a script. What if in 24 we'd just like set up a fake candidate named George McRyne? Do you think he'd get like 30%? What if you were Chris McReyn instead of Chris Ryan? I could be president.

Chris McRey. You could be president. I would take Charles Palantynexie Driver over George McReynoyan. Ryan. Palatine sounds too much like Palpatine though.

This all seems purposeful doesn't it? What other what stage the best you have anything? So I got

just the cop saying save your paranoia for public television. I love that. Then the absolute

peak sicko moment of this entire movie is when you know Jack's running around like crazy so he's not

overseeing the overdubbing the ADR work that's going on on co-ed frenzy but there is the one recording session where

one of the girls is named Betty it's the brunette and the blonde and the director has them change places. He's like, okay, now you pull her hair while she screams. And the brunette while she's pulling the blonde's hair turns to the camera and just gives this smile like,

and I'm like, Brian, you absolute fucking sicko. You're perfect. Because she's like, you're into this, I'm into this. And it's like, oh my God, what's going on? He literally has the director character say, I didn't hire her for her scream, Jack. I hired her for her tits. Brian DePaul is the director of this movie.

Come on. I had that as best quote So we don't have to do that now Any other ones say it's the best, Chris? Just This is corny But like the below the line talent Of Vilma Sigmund,

Paul Hirsch and Paul Silbert If you go through their Wikipedia's, but specifically for Silbert and Hirsch Paul Silbert, the production designer, goes, Heaven can wait hardcore Kramer

versus Kramer blowout in three years. What a life. And Paul Hirsch does The Fury Empire Strikes Back blowout in creep show in three years. Wow.

You had to throw creep show in there. Anyone stage the best for you, Sean, that we didn't cover? I just think everybody is completely online and convinced of mass political conspiracy. And that's kind of what this movie is about.

It's about the way that gets in your blood and you can't get it out. I mean, QAnon is just a million John Travolta's just like, I know the truth. I know the truth and I will find it out and I will pursue it to the end of the earth. So he's think Kyrie would have been all over this governor, McReyan?

We should remake this film with Kyrie. Cairois-R-Travota. Anyone say, the best for you, Wesley? I think the filmmaking. I think just the filmmaking. Just the use of splitting the screen. Why do we get away from that?

What happened to split-screens? We're just like, we need to leave green screen behind and go back to split-screen. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I don't know if this ever happened to you when you watch this movie, but that slow-mo shot of the owl,

which you don't even think about, the first time you see it. Yeah. So good. Then when he gives it to you and the owl is like, wah! I, my heart leaps out of my chest every single time. It is, it's just an owl.

But it's due, like, he heard something that can do that. Mm-hmm. Right? It's just, uh. So that's a great shot, Gordo. The spinning shot, I think, wins. But the fireworks, Dead Sally's pretty amazing. Yeah.

There's like, this whole movie's a great check order. The Mallory Rubin Award, did this movie need a better sex scene? I'm going to say, yeah. I'm glad there wasn't a sex scene between Manny and Sally. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. What? I might have dialed it up in co-ed frenzy like one more notch.

Yeah, the director's cut of co-ed frenzy. Yeah, the director's cut, I feel like. The Denny Thieves Benny Hanna Award, for scene stealing location whatever that 30th whatever the fuck you guys are talking about 3rd Street Station De Palma fucking loves train stations

he just the Potemkin shoot out in untouchables 30th Street Station also the setting for the murder and witness Yep Yeah Yeah Lovely train station

I mean because it's Grand Central but much smaller Yeah right It's got everything you love about Grand Central Except the confusion And it's got a great statue All those people Yeah I mean there's so many

And also, the thing that I love about De Palma in this station is... Sean's like, I'm not going to fucking Philadelphia. Wait, is that what that face is? Yeah, he's fine. It's like... It's like, oh. It's like Worcester with better sports arenas. Come on.

I know. I'm just trying to hurt Chris. I don't mean that Chris. No, he's just trying to hurt me. Sean actually hurts me. I just, I can't respect any place to produce Chase Sutley. That's how I feel. All of your friends are from there.

Yeah, I know. And I am deeply self-loathing, so read into that way that you can. Chase Utley, that's, what are you against Chase Utley? Got another category. He's a vile human being. And he, purposefully sought to hurt players,

particularly in Met's players. I'm just going to put that out there. Okay. He should be sent to jail. Don't hold that. There's a lot of things you can hate about Philadelphia, but don't start with that. The Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

Is this where we talk about Nancy Allen? Why don't you have the floor, Wesley? You need to have the floor. But that is such a bad streak With the butcher's girlfriend Always being the girlfriend No, I didn't have her for this Oh

Go on Add her to another place So go on I think Lithgow is just too crazy In this movie I think that's the point That's a great answer I would have doubt it back

Like he's like beyond a sociopath And I think when you're that much of a sociopath I don't think it's a governor Driving His car into the bridge is what unleashes all the murders. But to me, he's like, A, he must have committed other murders. This is too crazy.

B, how does he get hooked up with this whole Governor McRyan world? And I just, I don't know why they made him this crazy. The president's chief of staff had a meeting with this guy. And this guy then was like, I've decided to like improvise what this whole plan is going to be. At first, it was just trap him with a, get pictures of him with a woman that's not his wife. And it turns in this whole other thing. I will say, instead he's like, fucking Ted Bundy.

Yeah. What am I thinking? It's just, I don't know why they made the leap to do that. Burke is scratching a different edge where he's just like, guys, it turns out I have to be a serial killer

to make this convincing. And they're like, what? Whoa. Yeah. Like, that was not in the proposal. I don't know.

It just felt like, it felt like they could have gotten there with Lithgow without also turning this into like a serial killer thing. It's just, I thought it was, I'm not against it. I just thought he doubt it up.

Where do you stand, Sean? I think he, De Palma loves Lithgow as a maniac. He has him three times in his movies. First time he's an obsession. Oh, Raising Kane. Raising Kane. He's like... In obsession, he plays the business

partner of Cliff Robertson's character who betrays him and engineers this entire kind of like conspiracy. And that's his first real, real, real Hitchcock imitation, his obsession. Not the most successful movie, but interesting movie.

Then in this movie, he's a murderous killer. then raising Kane. He's playing multiple parts. I do think though that Burke's plan works. Because at the end of the movie, they're talking about a serial killer who's been killing women and has now been stopped and it has nothing to do with McRyne.

Yep. Yep. So, okay. What's age the worst? So you're with me on some of the score. Oh, I don't like the music. It's very like kind of early 80s. They don't know what era. I like the score.

It's the one thing that I feel like the control over. I don't. No, there's that one 80s part of the score where it's like, it's like that kind of happy. I don't know if I'm about to watch Arthur or blowout. Oh my God.

Yeah, so that's what this movie needs is a Christopher Cross song. Yeah, I don't love it until that great climax. What stage is the worst? I have one more of What's Age of the Worst? I've got one. Go ahead. Let's hear it. So,

We all agree that we love Travolta in this movie. There's nothing wrong with his performance. It's like one of his very, very, very, very best. But this is not his fault. He has to do it because it was in the script, I assume. But at some point when he's telling Nancy Allen that she's got to, she's got to like have a drink with him, I saved your life.

The least you could do is have a drink with me. And I wrote next to this, and I have never written this before in my life, but I just wrote, men. Like, what the fuck? Well, do you think that he's just being... She doesn't want to have a drink with you, dude. Step on! Okay, do you think that he really wants to have a date with her,

or do you think he's like, I just want to kind of get to the bottom of this whole McRyan situation? It doesn't matter. Then say that. Okay. Say that. Conversely, she doesn't want to have a drink with him because she is a part of the conspiracy,

not because she doesn't find him appealing. It doesn't matter. And he maybe has sensed that. I say that. your life, the least you could do is have a drink with me. Like, what? Yeah. You know how many times CR has dropped that line in a girl?

Yeah. Dozens. All I do is hang out at creeks. Why? I heard about you. And I'm telling you, you've got to knock it off. Yeah, Creek Watch. Not gay.

Anyone takes the worst shot? Not really. I mean, it's the ultimate, like, this movie bombed, and then everybody decided it was one of the best movies of the decade. You know, like, it has aged wonderfully in many ways. Just smoking in the E. I think is aged poorly. I always see that.

I love smoking everywhere, but sometimes smoking in hospitals throws me off. Were you out with smoking these days? You still had a butt lately? I haven't had one for 11 years. Oh, good for you. Well, that's not true. But I haven't enjoyed one for a lot.

I personally seen you have one. Sorry. Oh my God, you guys. Chris just asked just to see if you lie. Where my health insurance company is listening to this? Oh, is that riding on? I'm going to save one of my what stage is a worst because there's a better spot.

Ron Burgundy flew to where best time for a pee break. When he goes to visit Nancy Allen in the hospital, I'm good with a pee there. Wait, that's like the first 15 minutes in the movie. No, just when she's like kind of dazed from the accident and he's talking. Oh, yeah. What I wanted to ask you for Ron Burgundy is where are you guys at with the flashback sequence? I used to work for the King Commission and then, you know, taped this thing. It's helpful to understand why he did it.

I kind of liked it. Okay. Because he really, really, really wanted to make prince of the city. The Sopranos. And he wanted to do a sequence You think it created the Soprano. That's good. I actually like that also because it's so stylistically

out of character with the rest of the movie. Yeah. But it's not, it doesn't break a fourth wall. It doesn't, like, derail the trajectory of everything else. It's just a great little, like, cul-de-sac to go down

and then turn around and come back. That would also have been an incredible Travolta, as Travolta as Danny in Prince of the City. Also, you would have been great. You need to know, I also think it's important because this is a person who

officially has two traumatic sound recording or sound oriented incidents, right? The one is this one, so you know that there are some stakes for things going wrong, but he could never in a million years have imagined losing her in the way that he does

in a job-oriented fashion, right? Where this is going wrong again, but now this woman who I'm falling in love with is going to die. because of it. I mean, I don't know if we're saving this for later, questions-wise,

but like... You're saving it. All right. Was there a better title for this movie? No. No, no. But there was another title

for this movie that changed the personal effects. Oh! Yeah. But that's his office... I like that that's on the door of his office.

No, that's bad. That's bad. Stephen A. Smith-Hittus Take Award. We kind of did it already, but mine was, I actually think this is Tribaltz's best movie.

Like his best performance in a movie. Because I would say Saturday Night Fever and he's so charismatic in that, but that has a couple scenes where you're like eh, it's pretty young actor here. Like, this is start to finish.

He's just throwing all his pitches. Saturday Night Fever is an energy. Yeah. It's a charisma movie. Right. And this is the energy with craftsmanship. Yeah. I think it's a great performance. Do you have one show? Are we sure it's not grease? I mean, I'm not like the biggest

Greece guy, but I genuinely don't think Greece is a phenomenon without him. I think he's irreplaceable in Greece. I mean, but these are different things. Yeah, that's different things. We're just talking about the craft of acting. I think he peaks here. What do you got, Chris? I didn't really have an SAS one.

Okay. Can move to cast some what ifs unless you have one? No. Keep going. First choice for the role of Jack Al Pacino. Oh, wow. I'm not surprised. I like it. Not as good as much, but I like it.

Not as good a movie. He would have brought something interesting, obviously. Haunted, much more haunted kind of guy. It's a different movie. It doesn't surprise you in the way. It's more opera than this is. And also the revelation that he had previously largely been responsible for someone's death, you would have felt that the minute you started watching his character.

Whereas in this movie, it's kind of effervescent. Oh, yeah. He's kind of friendly. He doesn't carry this. The only thing you think once you learn that is that this, is this one, why he's sort of damned himself to working on Bordello of blood instead of trying to do something else. You go to L.A. or do whatever he's going to do.

I had coffee with McReyn a half an hour ago. Your anchorman. Played by Dave Roberts. Dave Roberts! Our weatherman! The longtime weatherman. Sexy Dave Roberts, our weatherman. The father of David Boreen.

Yes, he is. Is he? Oh, yes, he is. So they just threw the weatherman in there as an actual actor. Dave Robert. Do you make it makes you like it more or less show? Well, that makes it even funnier what I'm going to ask, which is, are we sure Frank Donahue is good at his job?

Well, Dave Roberts is just in the beginning of the show. Right. The movie. Yeah. Frank Donahue is not good at his job, but I think as an actor, right? Yes. Yeah. Oh, I see.

Dave Roberts is in the beginning. Okay. Dave Roberts, man. Like, Philadelphia. So Kurt May. It's Frank Donnie. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, that guy's not good news. Channel 6. Channel 6. Action news, baby. It's just also so funny to watch, like, early 80s communications where Frank Donnie's just like, can I call you back later? It's like, this story of your life. And you're like, I got to fucking.

I got to get a turkey sandwich first and a beer. Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek-Parchish overacting word. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady. I come in here. I give these things to you. Give me, oh, my God. This and me...

Give me out of God! I treated you like a son! You fucking stab me in the heart! Fuck you! Fuck you! Nancy Allen, drowsy, post-accident is sympathetic. What do you say when you get out of here we have a drink sometime, and a glass? Sure.

Okay, you take care. How about tonight? No, I don't think so, Sally. Not tonight. But I'll tell you what I do. I'll check with the doctor and see when you get out. Wait a minute. Sal, you really got to stay in bed.

I don't like to be absurd. Well, I'm sorry, but there's really nothing I can do. I don't like being absurd. Is this our chance to talk about Nancy? No, we're not there yet. Jesus. The tightness of this ship is really sexy. Best that guy award, the movie's 40 years old, but the guy who plays...

It's John McMarton. Yeah, John McMartin. He's an all-time that guy, right? He's the same guy in all the president's been who's like, it's not that all of our sources refuse to go. on the record that bothers me. It's like, but why aren't the New York Times on this story? Yeah.

When did we get the inside track? You know? He's really good. Yes. Waiters Award. Dennis Franz is in it too much. And I think Lithgow also might be in a too much. John Aquino.

It's the cop. Yeah. Oh, that's good. He's awesome. Fair. Yeah. All right, it's time. Recasting couch.

Is this Nancy Allen? Yeah. Okay. Nancy Allen, I'll just say. is a 10 out of 10 in Dress to Kill. Yes. Dynamite in Dress to kill. And I think she's really good in carry.

She is good in carry. She's very good to carry. Can we just talk about what Nancy Allen is to Brian De Palma for one second? Yes, because I have, this is the theory I was going to drop on you. Okay. It's the Sandra Locke movie theory. Oh, no. It's when somebody is involved with an actress that they keep putting in their own movies.

But I thought he resisted this point. There's a point of diminishing returns. Yeah, he tried to resist in this, but Travolta was the one that pushed for Nancy Allen. Sandra locks in like seven Clint Eastwood movies. And it's like at some point, it's like, hey, Clint, find some new blood, buddy. I mean, new blood, we can start with. Yeah, I mean. He literally did.

He had many other wives. I'm just kidding, give you some names. Nancy Allen's fine. And I actually think she gets better as the movie goes along. I think the second half of the movie, she's better than the first. True, yes. But I could give you Susan Sarandon

I could give you Deborah Winger. Susan Saraneda in 1981. Sheesh. Wow. I could give you a very young Glenn Close one year before she does Warden to Garp. I can give you Jessica Lang.

Oh. My question is, this is a great part and I want a little more firepower. No. I think Jessica Lang is the only one out of that crew that could play a dits.

You know, like that's, and this character, that's what Chris said to me yesterday. It's like, this character is a dits. She's like a goof, and she also has to play dumb a lot with him at the beginning, because it's all part of this. She has to be this person who's like, even though she's part of this conspiracy is essentially getting manipulated by a guy who sits around watching, well, Brian DePaulman movie. But does she have to be this bunch of a dits?

Yeah, a little bit, yeah. Okay. I think also like, yeah, you have to separate the way she is from the, like, she is sedated when you first meet her. And I do think that. I think she's wonderful in that scene. I like that scene, too. I think she's wonderful. And here's the thing about Nancy Allen.

And I don't normally do this when I watch people, but I've seen this when I watch actors. But I've watched this movie a bunch of times now. And so I got to look at other stuff while I watched it. And there's the sequence where he, the sequence I mentioned, where he's like, you got to have a drink with me. And they're sitting in a bar. And he is talking about, like, spending more time together. I don't exactly remember what he's trying to get her to do. He's like, you made me miss my train.

He's just like, I really want to hang out with this. Yeah. And I watched her eyes in that sequence. And she is really there with him. And like, just thinking about what it would be like to spend a little bit more time with this guy. So you're in on Nancy Allen. Oh, I'm in on her in this movie. Like, those other people that you mentioned, I would not necessarily, there's something a little too, um,

there's an intelligence that always comes through with those actors. And it's like a professionalism that is, they can do kind of ditsy if they needed to. Like Jessica Lang did it in Tutsi, but she wasn't a dits in Tutsi, right? She was light. She was light, but she wasn't a dits. This person kind of has to be...

I think Sarandon could have done it. She's also, Nancy Allen's from the Bronx. She kind of seems like she could be from Philly. Yeah, I mean, that's the other other thing. She seems like she... Jessica Lang, it's hard to imagine being from Philadelphia. Okay. And I don't know.

I just think she's wonderful in this movie. She's an unusual actor. I mean, in the year before, she was nominated for both the Golden Globe for New Star of the Year in a motion picture for Just a Kill and nominated for worst actress by the Razies. Yep. Like, she was always pretty divisive.

The Razies weren't playing back then, though. They not, I mean, they went in on everybody. And that's a crazy take. I mean, you could say that she's like, maybe an unsophisticated actor compared to Al Pacino or something. but I always thought she was a really good screen presence, but her career kind of takes a nosedive after this. She isn't Robocop, but for the most part,

she starts doing a lot of genre stuff. It kind of disappears. Margo Kidder? No, again, like, that's a different. Carrie Fisher? Too smart? Yeah, you're naming people who, Nancy Allen is kind of... I'm just trying to think of anyone in this age range.

Just think about what she was doing all those De Palma movies. Like, home movie, um, Carrie, like, there's a kind of lightness to her, dress to kill. I mean,

she's perfect in this. I just feel like she dressed to kill De Palma, it was a year before. Just find a new actress. I mean, they were married. No, I get it. That's why I called the Sandra Lock Theory. But Bill, but Bill, I also think

there might be a world in which he tried and nobody else was right. No, I think Trouvoto insisted on Nancy. Because he knew. But he knew. He knew. He knew. And she says the same thing. She's like, Travolta was so supportive of me in Carrie and in my whole career that I really

loved being able to do something with him again. Some half-fass internet research. Travolta had insomnia the entire shoot. I was going to talk about his eyes. Yeah, that's why he starts to look tired. Yeah, helps his performance. Yeah, I mean, he looked, he looks washed out. Yeah.

Yes. It really helps. This was one of the crazier things we've learned in any movie we've done. That they filmed the whole Liberty Parade sequence. This is incredible. They have two reels of footage. The driver stops at a dunk of donuts, leaves the van. unattended, and the van is stolen, and the footage is never seen again, and they have to return

to Philadelphia, and they have to reshoot the entire scene for $750,000. That's where the money went. I was going to say. And Lazzler-CoVas came in and shot the ending because Vilma Sigmund had moved on to another movie. Yeah. Stop it. It's true.

Wow. I wonder if it's different. I would be very curious, because I would say that the Liberty Day sequence does not feel quite I have a piece with the rest of the film in a lot of ways. I do feel like it's trying really hard to trump the train station sequence but it feels like almost out of character

the rest of the movie. The actress who screams in the shower was Missy Cleveland who's playmate of the month April 1979 I know Sean has that issue wasn't alive but you were the scene Why are we descending into this

negativity and sniping? The scene where the car goes into the water required the building of a 60 foot long, 15 foot tall dam. Oh, that's why this movie costs so much. And they were environmentalists involved. The Liberty Day Parade, 11 cameras, 1,000 extras, 25 stunt drivers. It's just so, which is wild. And they did it twice.

It's crazy that they really do this. But you know what's amazing is the movie does not look like it cost a lot, right? It's got a very subtle expensiveness, I would say. The chase sequence, I think. Yeah. Limited day stuff's expensive. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I just, like, when you talk about all this stuff, Bill, I'm like, oh, yeah, I see how the budget got to $19 million or whatever.

Mani's watching De Palma's first movie on the TV when Sally was in murder all the moment. Apex Mountain. I'm going to say for De Palma's probably dressed to kill where he has the most. Isn't Scarface his Apex? No, but dress to kill, he can basically do anything he wants after that. That movie made a shit lot of money. The other convergence, though, is that George Liddo, who is his producer, became the president of Filmways, the production company of this movie. And that is why this movie got me.

Blow out, people didn't love it around town. They love dress to kill. Yeah. But it's, you know, it's bleak. It's not as sexy. Like, it's not the signatures that he had in his previous couple of movies. What did they want him to do instead? Were there other projects that he was with?

Well, he wanted to do Prince of the City. Prince of the City. Prince of the City was the movie he wanted to do in the early 80s. And the Lumet does it for that. And Lumet was right for it. Right. He was, he would, like, that's a Lumet movie through and through and through.

Yeah. Travolta, no. Nancy Allen, probably not. Lithgow, no. This episode is brought to by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards

on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. I just think this would have been the biggest story of 1981,

other than maybe Reagan getting assassinated, and Travolta would have been trailed by paparazzi, and it would have leaked out, and they would have had, Like, just like what happened, the JFK assassination, they shut down that whole hospital. There was weird shit going on. There was, like, secret autopsies happening.

And if this guy was really had a chance to be the president. They just have him in a corner of a Philadelphia ER. Like, out of that guy. Like, Ryan, the stiff. And Franz, people are probably murdered. It's a way bigger deal. I just want to say that I just did not know. Yeah.

I did. It took me a few times. I thought on the first 11 or 12 times I watched this movie that this guy was just the governor. But that confirms, a gubernatorial candidate. That confirms why it's the signature flaw of the movie is that even in watching it multiple times, you never really put it together because you'd be like, there'd be a bigger deal out of this, right? Yeah. I trust the filmmaking so much that, like, totally this is just like, this is just not that big a deal. Also, Trubota's character, Jack, I just think he makes more copies of the tape.

he's already suspicious time-consuming process yeah because remember at some point she's like and what about the film too he's like I don't have time to do that like that you know like remember that he's at his apartment yeah I don't know I feel like he makes one more tape I was disappointed that he didn't do the thing

where he mails it to himself or like mails it to like he's like a copy of this will be mailed to the Philadelphia Inquirer at midnight if I'm not heard from I like that's yeah I was going to say little known fact about the rewatchables is we do every episode twice and then we fuse together the best parts of every conversation that we have. I also picking it of just the people that hide stuff in their ceiling with the old ceiling panels.

Yeah. Like that's not like the first place people are going to look when they break into a place. You're just going through every panel. Right. This is the old hide the cocaine in the cupboard Goodfellas thing. Yeah. It's like you've got to be a little bit more creative. Yes.

Frank Donahue said he's got 8 million people watching every night. Is there 8 million people in Philly? Oh. Jesus Christ, what? How many impossible people are watching local news in Philly? There's three stations. Cherry Hill. They're watching in South Jersey.

South Jersey. Everybody? One second. And we do. Oh, wow. It's scrambling for Philly data. It was $1.7 million in 1980 in Philly. But I think the Delaware Valley area.

Delco. Okay, there's three channels. Everyone's watching Frank Donoghue. Nobody's watching the other two channels. I don't know. Saddle the fuck down. Frank is my point. Is Frank Donahue good?

No. No. He's a scam artist. You're a liar. And he's a product of Philadelphia. You're not talking about Ryan Allen Iverson. I don't care. He's a fictional television reporter.

Franz's character, Karp. Why is he in Philly? I just feel like the police have some more questions for him. Yeah. What's going on? Why were you there? Well, they also, so they don't know about him,

even though when they show up to the dressmaking office, they find all these pictures where he's been scamming people for years. Yeah. Doesn't matter. Just let that one go. This is a pet peeve of mine in a bunch of different movies that I love, but it gets dark really fast in this movie. Or in daytime, all of a sudden, it's dark. Halloween is the ultimate example of that.

Lori's driving with Annie in Halloween, and all of a sudden it's pitch black. You've been away from the East Coast for too long. It's just pitch black in two minutes. Well, fortunately, Congress solved that problem by just making us never have to set our clocks back or forward again. Travolta recovers from a concussion about as well I mean if Tua had recovered that well

you would have come back at the second half knocked out cold from a car accident just hops out of the ambulance that car accident is just like this guy drove through a parade and they're like well you can go

right that's star power people that is star power look at the waviness in his hair he must be going somewhere important is it possible Volta dies in the car accident and then the rest of the movies imagine. I have thought about this.

It's so funny. Is that a theory? I just made it up. That's my number one least favorite, like, I just... Top Gun Maverick? Have a little fun. Come on, Wesley. Have a laugh with us.

We're doing a podcast. No, thank you. Maverick did die in the beginning. And the first time. You guys stop it. I don't want to hear it. It's a death dream. It's a death dream.

Like, do you guys really think this movie is that interesting to have a death dream? No. It's not. Please talk about. Maverick or blowout? Maverick? No, there's no way that... No! No!

You can't fly Mach 10 and get ejected from the plane and survive Wesley. As you know, all Great Ark can support multiple readings. That's a wonderful reading of Maverick. Watch a lot of YouTube videos. There's no way he gets out of that first plane. No. No way. His body disintegrates.

He turns into... I can't listen to this. I can't listen to this. I can't listen to this. I can't listen to this. That is like Mach 9. Any other nitpicks before we move on? All right.

Sequel Prequel Prestige TV All Black Cast or Untouchable? Is our next category? All Black Cast would be pretty fun. I was about to say all black cast. In Philly. All Black Castes. I'm going Prestige TV, 2022.

I think I would watch this. But I would want a whole lot more McRyan stuff. Yeah. We'd have to really go into government of Ryan. And you know, you could have a lot of fun to Wesley's point earlier in the pod, there's a lot of fun to be had with like the relentless amount of photo taking

and videoing that people do with their phones. I think I would watch this. All of a sudden in the back of my IG reel. David Fincher, let's go. Let's bring it to him. No. No. Why not?

Because it needs to be fun. Does it? This movie is fun. I just feel like in the same way that he reiterated on seven with Mine Hunter, there's something to be done here too. And this is very fight club in a way too.

I don't, I don't disagree. I just feel like also, but the thing that makes it great is the depalmaness of it. There's so much signature filmmaking here. The department does it. He can't do it now.

What's his last movie you did? It wasn't passion. He made something after that. I can't recall. He made something just a couple of years. Oh, he made something that got really cut up. Okay.

And distorted. I can't remember the name of the movie right now. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trao, Catherine Hahn, Steve Bushmi, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Philip Baker Hall? I see Philip Baker Hall and Steve Bishamie in this in some other world. I want to give you Wayne, and I gave you Wayne for cruising, but it's hard for me to find a place for Wayne in this movie.

I don't think he has a way. What are you talking about? He's the cop. He's a cop who doesn't believe him. He was like, why are you telling me this? That is Wayne. I also think J.T. Walsh as Mani would be a lot of fun. Yeah. I think Catherine Hahn. God damn, Jack. I didn't know what I was with fucking ass. I think Catherine Hahn would be a good... Oh, good Nancy? Good Nancy. Oh, yeah.

Catherine Hahn could do it. We were reaching into the period, but I think we have to leave... Burnthol and Han blowout remake. Oh. What, do we think, burn... Are we, like, so in on Bernthal? Careful. No!

Careful. Welcome to the rewatching. You be careful. I just... You're a guest in. this house. I just want to offer. I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

I just want to offer. I think Bernthal is a sexy motherfucker who can also act. I'm just asking the two of you and you, Sean, but apparently, especially these things. What are you trying to say? Are we at the point with him

where we think that the way we talked about Travolta being able to like do every movie that we saw the 1980s, imagine him in Steakout. Bernthal and Splash. Stakeout? Yeah. That's a good movie. Yeah, it's a good movie. I love Steakout.

Yeah. Berthaw shouldn't have done American Jiglo, and he shouldn't have done that terrible Lena Dunn movie. I support all his other choices. You guys just reacted when Wesley went off on that, the same way that, like, Sylvia and Big Pussy would go off when AJ Jr. says something terrible to Tony, they're like, No!

Oh! I love. John Bernthal. All I'm saying is... That's our guy. Chris watches off his YouTube podcast. Yeah.

Real ones with John Bernthal? Yep. When will you be invited on that show? I'm waiting. Wait, I'm sorry, what? He has a podcast. He's a podcast.

Yeah. Call real ones? What's that about? Check it out. He has real conversations. Yeah. He's actually, it's good. It is good, Jeff.

Just one Oscar who gets at the Palma. Oh, yeah. Probably in answerable questions. Should Philly have a Liberty Day. Massachusetts has Patriot Day. They do a really, really big July 4th there. So a huge concert on the

Parkway there. So July 4th, I think, is kind of like steps in for Liberty Day in a lot of ways. That's everybody has July 4th. Like, we have Patriots Day. We get the Boston Marathon. That's where Liberty and Freedom were born. I just want to read you something. I'm all for taking away anything from Philadelphia that we can. Can we strip some World Series titles

as well from them? After the pandemic of 1918, Philadelphia and had a parade called Philadelphia Liberty Loans Parade. And it was a celebration of, you know, the city basically, you know, World War I, Government Bonds, the troops. And it lasted, I think maybe one time. And then they booed Santa Claus and they canceled it.

That's right. They threw batteries in a guy dressed like Ben Franklin. They did more than booed Santa Claus in Philadelphia. Just throwing that out there. I like Liberty Day. I think they should bring it back. CR, that should be one of your missions. When I take my Governor McRyne type of slot in the national political scene,

we got to bring back Liberty Day, it's an important day. I can't wait to plot and scheme to have your tire blown out, send you over the bridge. Unanswerable. You wouldn't be by Chief of Staff? You wouldn't be by guy? I would, but I would also plot against you. Well, then welcome to blow out 2000. Is this the best Philly movie ever?

I think it's there. It's this Philadelphia trading places. Rocky. What about Rocky? Yeah, Rocky is getting to a Jesus. Jesus. Twelve monkeys. I mean, great.

It's a great Philadelphia. It's a great Philadelphia movie. The Silver Lanings Playbook count as a Philly movie? Not really, right? This is my... This is my favorite. This is my favorite. This is my favorites. Yeah, I'm with you.

I'm with you. I'm with you. I think that trading places goes to... to more interesting places in Philadelphia than this. This goes to all the places that you would go. And the city looks great.

Except obviously when it looks like a porn hut. When it goes to the Union Hall and there is that there's the sequence, there's the banquet sequence in trading places is just one of the great sequences.

I mean, Busby, Berkeley, each your heart out. It's just one of the great indictments of Philadelphia is like old Philadelphia is. We haven't done trading

places, have we? It's coming. I just, I think trading places is one and blowout is two. Any other unanswerable questions? John, what's your favorite Philadelphia movie? Game 6, Astros over Phillies and Houston the other day? Too soon. We just went right in a

Trollsville. Okay. Best double feature choice with this movie. I'm going to tweet the category. I think it's a triple feature. I think you do dress to kill. I think you do this. You do body double. and you just fucking run it back to back for like seven hours.

Brian Cook? Yeah. Just rock out. Yeah. I think you finish the night off with coad frenzy. Yeah. I think that's like in a weird you mentioned the trilogy

before the Pakula movies, yeah. That's like the De Palma trilogy from those three. Isn't it kind of weird in Coad Frenzy how like every single person in there is having sex? Or dancing naked?

It's a frenzy. I know, I'm just saying. Literally a frenzy. I will say when I was growing up I'm a little older than you guys. De Palma, it had been imprinted in my brain that he was like Kitchcock ripoff guy. And it took me a while to kind of

to see that out of my brain because that was like the rap on him. Body double especially because I love body double and then I was like, I want to read about body double. And then people were like, Kitchcock, fuck this guy. He did a couple of things right after this movie that also kind of obliterated that narrative. I think by making scarface and casualties of war,

you couldn't just be like, oh, he's the Hitchcock guy. And Untouchables, too. Untouchables comes after that. And he does enough that is far away enough from the thriller that he got so good at kind of reinventing. But he was that, I mean, he was that guy. Like, that being imprinted on your mind, I think was fair. And when you go to his movies and you don't know.

This is also, right, blowout is also rear window. Yeah. Totally. You know what it's doing what rear window is doing. Did your eyes deceive you? What did you see? What did you hear? There's an amazing, amazing clip of him and Scorsese in the mid-70s on Dick Cavett.

If you've never seen it. It's one of my favorite filmmaker interviews ever. Because Dick Cavett is like asking, he's trying to ask thoughtful questions of filmmakers, which I have done many times over the years and been humiliated and embarrassed. Dick Cabot gets his fucking head blown off by De Palma. It's also like pre-Wikipedia. So he'll be like, did you guys grow up together? And they're like, no.

Like, they just do not give him any. respect and then they go off on tangents than the things that they want to talk about but they're they both seem a little koki they're both like very pleased with themselves to palma more than anybody but he was so he just knew he was smarter than everybody else too so he he flexed that all the time in the press which is why i think people took shots at him as well because he was he really believed who he was it was a very koki era for directors oh yeah corsese did most of it but then he left some he left some for the other guys yeah yeah was he Spilberg wasn't

No, I don't think Spielberg I think he was the only one There's never been stories about But I think everybody did cocaine back then It was like how we drink coffee now The Andy and Red I mean Wesley showed up today with some Cortata cup

That he's brought his own cup I've never seen Cortado Cortado cup He ordered a Cortado and he's like Here's my Cortado cup I didn't say it like that I gave him my cup It's a portable cup

You can put anything in it A film by Louis Mali. You know, Chris, it was in here, and I didn't say it now. What happened the next day, aka the Andean Reds-Wat. This is the thing I want to talk about. What do you got? I don't think he makes another movie. I think he, I don't, I think he, like, sits at a bar and drinks himself to death.

I think all that lightness is gone. It's gone at the end of the movie. The light's out. for this guy. I think he opens... This is the worst incident of his life. His professional career and his romantic hopes

kind of just converge and die in a horrible car accident. And now it's compounded with the cop thing. Yeah. He's had like, I think he opens a used political bookstore.

You think he turns into a nut. And starts having like a, you know, a late night radio show where he talks about tinfoil hat stuff. I believe that. I think he runs for president on the Democratic ticket.

This platform is all about the truth. Yeah. Finding the truth. And making sure Pete Rosemitt gets into Cooperstown. I think he's probably murdered. Hmm. How did it not happen to that point? They take him out at some point.

Because they hire that Burke. But wouldn't Burke be like, I'll take care of this guy too. He was. He was like, I'll get to him eventually. First, I have to have a series of sex killings. Yeah, what happens the next day with Lithgow? Does he become? He's out.

He's dead. He has killed. It's stabbed in the heart. Oh, yeah, you're right. Nothing happens with him. Yeah, Burke gets buried. Maybe he didn't die. Maybe he moves to the Pacific Northwest.

Oh, boy. Oh, my God. What memorabilia would you want from this movie? Oh, that's a good one. Go to Chris or Sean. I'm going to think about that. The flip book. Yeah.

Oh, sure. Oh, great one. That or some of the movie posters. The co-ed frenzy poster would be made. That's a good one, too. I would take that one, too. You know what I want? The wallpaper in the hotel.

Oh, it's really good. The hotel wallpaper is extraordinary. Well, he brings that vision over many times in the movie. You know, like obviously near the end when you see the fireworks and everything, but there's that great scene when he drives past the cement mixer. And the cement mixer has the exact same pattern, the red and white stripes. And he brings that, you know, that motif back like four or five times. I mean, it's like, there's lots of reasons you get sucked into rewatching these movies,

but it's details like that. I never noticed that. That's awesome. I can't wait to rewatch, blow out, and look for it. Yeah. Coach Finstock Award, Best Life Lesson. If you record an assassination,

make sure you make multiple copies with my lesson. It's good, take me. I like that. I think at least three. It's a very good. I take that.

Put one in a locker somewhere like at the YMCA down the street. Just lock it in there. When you're casting your scream queen, make sure she can scream. Hmm. Yeah. Who won the movie to Palma?

I think is our answer? Unless you want to make a Chibote case. I think it's, I think it's De Palma, but this is my favorite Travolta performance, so, yeah. Oh, we all agree that this is our favorite? I don't think Sean, I think Sean seemed on the fence because he's- I still have Saturday Fever's favorite,

but I think this is the best performance I've seen him in a movie. This is, no, I mean, I think you can't have Pulp Fiction without Travolta, but I also think you can't, like I said before, you can't agree with that Travolta, so it's tough. You know, like, I could see another actor in this part. But it's a totally different performance. Harry Ford?

I think Harrison Ford could have done it. It's not the same. I think he could have done it. This is one of the great movie star performances, period. Like, top 10 to me, great movie star performances. Because Travolta, I think, is underrated as a movie star, right? Like, when you line it all up, I mean, he just had a thing that nobody had, right? This is the thing that makes all movie stars special.

But I just think that this is. This is one of the great movie stars. Isn't it still a good movie if it's Roy Shider? Yes, but it's just a 70s movie then. That's what it is. This to me is a nice movie. Redford would be the one that, and he probably turned it down, right? I can't imagine Redford being the sound guy.

Too beautiful. Too beautiful. Also not an East Coast guy, yeah. From Philadelphia. Pacino could be. He's too corn fed. Gear, maybe. Worst case there, Slice Stallone.

Oh, God. No, because then he'd be like, I got to rewrite the same. the script and you gotta do this and you gotta do that. Craig, what do you got? What were your thoughts? What were your blowout thoughts? This is why I love producing the show because when would I have ever watched this movie? When would anybody my age have

ever watched this movie? It's also, seriously for service journalism here, it's just buried on HBO Max. You can just go watch it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I love this movie for a lot of reasons. It's a movie about making movies, which is my favorite genre. It's a full circle movie, which I also love one of my favorite parts of a movie.

Great call. And ultimately, Like, this is a movie about a guy's running the ones and twos. It's right. It's an allegory for podcast producing. You know what I mean? I got some suspect clips I'm working on some theories going on about audio that I've gathered. Some subliminal messages that I've been sending. Yeah, some conspiracies I'm cooking out.

So you think that's what Jack's doing now? He's like producer number eight on serial season five. No, I wonder what happened as well. It's definitely some like off-bran, true crime thing. It's dark. It's darker than that. He started a podcast? I don't know.

I mean, it's dark. For real. I don't think that he is not in the main whatever the quote mainstream of American thought. No, he's on the margin somewhere suffering and like begging to be listened to. And he's got a little bit of a cult following. And in this moment, this is this period that we're living in right now in 2022, this is his moment. Right. Except that he was murdered mysteriously in June 1982.

But that actually could be the sequel is just cut to Travolta. today with a fucking wig on. No! Just make it letting him be a movie star again. Decrepit basement. I mean,

De Palma's interests and what we're talking about, it's not like a huge leap for him. I gotta say that. I'm in on this idea because if it was in the Hollywood reporter, Brian De Palma and Travolta team up for Blowout too.

Blown out. Blown out. Yeah. Yeah. Blue out. What did you think of Nancy Allen Craig. I, to be honest, didn't love her in the beginning, but I agree that by the end of the movie,

I actually thought she worked really well for the role. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Produced by Craig Horacek. This was episode three, naughty November, Neo-November. What were the other November? Sleek, sexy, sweaty November.

Sweedy. No-no November. We have one more coming. The sweatiest of all of them coming next. It is so fucking sweaty next week. Wesley will be here. Craig Corbett, producing. See you next time.