The Rewatchables - ‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mark Titus

Episode Date: August 7, 2017

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Mark Titus and Chris Ryan to induct ‘Blue Chips’ into the Sports Movie Hall of Fame. Topics include: the most ridiculous moments (5:00), Nick Nolte’s intense coaching style (14:00), Bob Knight’s mystique (19:00), point-shaving scare tactics (23:00), Shaq’s final college game (30:00), the player cameos (35:00), rebooting ‘Blue Chips’ (42:00), post-retirement Larry Bird (47:00), and the best college basketball movies (53:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, listen up. Let's it up. Inch by inch, play by play, until we're finished. You're five feet, nothing. A hundred and nothing. Shut up, old man. I ain't going nowhere. If we played them ten times, they might win nine.

But not this game. Not tonight. 60 minutes falls out. It's a paramedic sort of matter. I must have. Welcome to the rewatchables. This classic episode is brought to you by Seek, our presenting sponsor for the BS podcast,

as well as the easiest way to shop for the best tickets, thanks to their revolutionary grading. Everything is fully guaranteed. Just go to seek geek.com or download the Seekek app today. This is a podcast that we did initially with Mark Titus back in March during March Madness about Blue Chips for the sports movie Hall of Fame, which we have shoehorned in to the rewatchables feed. Mark Titus, Chris Ryan, myself, Blue Chips, an underrated classic.

Not a rewatchable Hall of Famer, but definitely a sports movie Hall of Famer. we go. Blue chips, we thought we would do it because it's March Madness. And I, you know, I was out of college when this movie came out, but I remember reading about it, hearing about that it was happening. And it came out in February 1994. And the big thing, there were two things that stood out. One was that they were really playing the games. Yeah. This was like, they were writing about this as it was happening. They were like, was William Friedkin, the director of the exorcist, some other stuff. French connection. French connection. I got to some freaking trivia for you coming up.

Oh, good. Yeah. So stay tuned. Oh, yeah. So a big thing was, oh, yeah, basketball movies, they're too scripted. They're too choreographed. He's going to let these dudes play. And then it was like, it's not just the guys in the game, but it's also they got all these other college players. So we'll talk about that in a second. And Jack and Penny were in it was the other wrinkle and it was supposed to be this unflinching look at the NCAA. So there was a lot of buzz when this movie came out. And I remember it came out in like the right kind of weekend. It was like a month before March madness.

There was real excitement for it. And it kind of fizzled. Roger Ebert liked it, though, I remember. Not surprising. So of all the movies we've done for this, I was wondering why this one I hadn't really thought about in a long time, haven't rewatched it a lot. This is the one that actually has the most contempt for its subject.

Like, I don't think this movie likes college basketball at all. It definitely doesn't. Unflinching. So it's kind of weird because even in any given Sunday, where those guys are emotionally paralyzed, drug addict, abusive maniacs. Oliver Stone clearly thinks football players are gods. Yeah.

But in this movie, I mean, like the Ron Shelton stuff, you know, Ron Shelton wrote and directed White Man Can't Jump. He obviously loves basketball. But it is not a movie that is, like, affectionate towards its subject matter at all. That was another part of the buzz. I forgot about that, Ron Shelton, because it was coming up Bull Durham, White Men Can't Jump. It's like, now he's tackling college basketball. And I think for, I don't know who was running the NCAA,

but they allowed the uniforms to be used, which I think I don't think that'll ever happen again. I can't believe Bob Knight agreed. They let Bob Knight. Bob Knight's in it. And then I think at the last second, they changed it from NCAA to like N-S-C-S-A or something like that. But all right, Titus, you played basketball in college at Ohio State. What was the single most ridiculous thing that happened in this movie for you? It all kind of felt.

So I just got done watching it. And I kind of felt like I imagine Neil deGrasse Tyson feels when he watches every movie he watches where he's like, where he's well actually, you know, for every scene and picking out the stars. It's so close to being accurate, but it's not there. It's like the uncanny valley or of college basketball where it's like, I see where you're trying to make this. But yeah, it's so far off that it just is it's all, it all was comical to me. Like the one scene that that stood out the most to me was, uh, Bouch McCray. comes in and says he's homesick and he says coach i can't run the motion offense and me and tate looked at each other like who can't run the motion off right like it's a motion all right he wants

to play one four yeah he wants to play one for he's like so what's one for that's basically russell westbrook's offense at okay see right now it's the early herbal drive there's stuff like that where the movie thinks it's so smart and like you said it wants to be authentic and it wants to be but then i would almost rather just be like super campy and just like and and not try to do that because it's taking itself so serious. You're like, hey, we have the most authentic basketball movie. And then basketball people are like, actually, no, you don't at all. This is way off.

Also, the concept of not really being able to figure out how to use Butch McCrae, played by Penny Hardaway, who was like one of the most perfect basketball player of bodies slash talents ever. He's like, I don't know, we can't fit him into our motion office. I'm pretty sure he could have fit in in any offense. This guy was way more gifted than any other player. So the concept or the plot of boot chips, Pete Bell, just an unabashed Bob Knight

Ripoff, which made it really weird that nights in the last scene because it's like... But is he sent in... He's coaching in Western is supposed to be UCLA. Is that supposed to be UCLA? This was another... This was another guy if I have is that they didn't just sell out

and make it Indiana because they based the guy off Bob Knight. They have the French lick scene. They filmed the thing in Indiana. The gym that they filmed it in is a high school in Indiana about an hour north of Indianapolis, like this rural high school. And then they sell out and like make the school be on the West Coast.

And I'm thinking, why don't just make the school Indiana? It's funny to watch it now with all the, like, with the Ball Brothers, all going to UCLA. And they're like, oh, man, we just can't get guys to come to Los Angeles. It's like, UCLA has never not had guys. Yeah. Right. It's so that one-on-one with Robbie Benson, I think that one was called like Big State or something like that.

And that was also set in L.A. But I was like when they don't just use, they don't know, they're not allowed to use the college's name. So Pee-Bel is trying to do things the right way. And he's starting to lose. and the boosters and the presser. So now he finally decides maybe it's time. He's going to let J.T. Walsh get his hands on his program.

Is this your favorite J.T. Walsh performance of all time? No, my favorite is by far if you could have been. Okay. So Lieutenant Morrison. Yeah. What about you, Titus? I would say it's my fat. I mean, J.T. Walsh passed away probably before I got to really enjoy him.

And I guess that's kind of what makes this movie interesting. Maybe I'm jumping ahead too far. but I watched this way after the fact. Like when I was seven years old when this movie came out, so I was my dad was like, no, you're not watching this. They say bad words or whatever. So I had to wait till later. And when I watched it, it felt like, well, duh, like what's the point of this movie?

You're trying to expose that this is how the NCAA is? And it's like, well, yeah, I know this already. I don't think people really knew in 1992. So I'm asking you guys, like, when it came out, was this like a, whoa, that's how the college basketball really is? I think that's what they were going for. Yeah. And there had been a couple of like big sanctions. like around then, like if I'm trying to remember.

Well, there was, I mean, you had point shaving scandals in the 80s. Yeah, and you also, I think that's after Cal's UMass team with Camby. No, no, that was after this. That was after. Yeah, that was after. There had been some big programs.

It was UNOV was the big one. Yeah, yeah, everybody was looking at. Which is hilarious because Tarkhanian's in the movie and he's recruiting Bush McCray and he said something. They have the scene where like Nick Nolte goes up and Tarkanian's like, yeah, I don't think we can get him in academically.

Right. That was probably the fun of his part to me was Tarkadianian's He can't get someone in academically. You actually is my favorite performance in this movie is Petino. As Richard in the credits. Really convincing. Richard Petino. But just like really good at like delivering those like great call raft.

You're a great official. Right. So this was 94. They're making a 93. I got to say like we didn't have the internet back then. Unless Sports Illustrated did like a big piece about the NCAA for something. Nothing really happened. Like ESPN was and they probably had outside the lines back then.

but I don't feel like ESPN was breaking journalism. It was on after like they did. So I mean, I didn't know anything. Like I remember reading the Fab Five book by Mitch Album and finding out stuff in that and being like, wow, these guys can't can barely pay for their McDonald's and they're selling their jersey. So I do think there was some naivete. Yeah. Back then. I'm now it seems ridiculous.

Right. That's what I mean. Like as I watch it now and even when I first watched it, I was like, well, duh, of course. Like what it? I mean, it's a cool movie, I guess. but you're not really telling us anything we don't know. Is the booster a hero to you or a villain? Well, my favorite part about the booster

was when they have the confrontation, and he tells Coach Bell, he's like, I didn't break any laws. You're the one who's breaking the NCAA laws, and you're like, wow, that's a great point. He didn't break any laws. And then, like, two seconds later, he says, I fixed that one game.

Right, right. Wait a second. But he has that, like, much more, the straight, this is a good question, because, like, he's very much set up as the villain. But there's that scene where he's like confronts him and he's like, you have a multi-year contract and a shoe deal that makes these kids into a walking billboard.

That's, and I, you know, these kids deserve this money, basically. Yeah, he says, God damn it, coach, we owe this kid, these kids. Yeah. Yeah, but even the way you're saying that is not, he's like saying he's got like spittle and like, yeah, and he's like, but that's, that's the tension in this movie. I mean, this is a movie that basically at every point where you're expecting it to go into a sports trope that you would, you know, that makes you feel.

good. The reason you rewatch these movies ultimately is to feel good about these teams. I mean, the opening scene is just like, Nick Nulte is like, it'll make me sick. Right. You know, for like five minutes. And you're just like, is this scene going to end? He's just like, I can't believe I have to watch you guys. Right. And it's like full on jacked from 48 hours just like seven day hangover, Nick Nolte. I feel like that would have saved this movie and made it a real classic if it was actually Jack Cates from 40 hours because of the same. I don't know what you're looking at. Just racial slurs just going totally over the line. But have you watched 48 hours recently, by the way?

Every year it ages worse. And this is my favorite movie of all time. And every year I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I love Jack Cates. Like he was a family member. He's the worst guy. Anyway, so there's attention with the booster who, when they made this movie, the booster is like a bad guy. And now you watch it and you look at it and you go,

And the booster at a point, man. Bouch McCrae got a house and his mom got a job. Ricky Roe got a tractor. My question is like, what is his motivation? And the obvious answer is he wants to see his alma mater or his favorite team be good. But is that really, and what's the motivation for all the boosters that do this? Are this that rich? It worked in football.

When you're like, we see rich people and they're like buying all this art and I'm just like, why? Why are you? They don't know what to do. Yeah. It's like the same thing with, that's a really good question. is like I don't really even understand boosters. Like, why would you spend that much money?

It's like, what do you have to gain from it? It's a way worse version of like youth sports parents. Yeah. Like the people that I see now because my kids play youth sports, like some of the most comical versions of them, but now give them like, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars or millions of dollars. Yeah, there's some sort of psychological thing where they think that they're a part of the team. Yeah.

And that's what it is. And you see that with like the college football teams a lot where it's like all of a sudden Houston, not, I'm not like an expert, but like Houston got really good over the last five years. And one of the reasons is like the guy who like funds Houston's athletics program is like this oil billionaire, right? Well, the famous guy at UCLA was Sam Gilbert. He was like the guy who. Yeah, Sam Gilbert was by all accounts was John Wooden's Garden Angel.

I mean, when Tate is the CEO of the ringer someday. Yeah. And he's just raking in cash. Donating money back to the U.S. Yeah, you don't think he's going to try to destroy the U.N.C. 's foiling up the sports program. Tate's going to pay dudes under the table at UNC. He would do it right now.

Tate, you would... I would have paid for Wiggins. He would have paid for Wiggins. But yeah, so the Pete Bell character, I'm not ever sure I like in this movie. And I think that's the fatal... There's two fatal flaws from a sports movie standpoint. One is that I don't know who the hero is.

I think it's supposed to be Pete Bell because, you know, he goes through it, he sells out, he sells out with the booster. And then they win the big. big game, but it's no chill scene. Like, it's very anti-chilini. They don't do a good job with the last play. I don't even really know what the last play.

What was it? Like an Ale Eup to Shack. It was also a regular season game. Yeah. Right. It wasn't like, was a March Madness or anything with that. And then he gives this crazy press conference and his career's over.

And then so I'm supposed to be like, great job, coach. You don't have a job anymore. And you've totally embarrassed these kids you recruited. Yeah. There's like, good luck. There's a very tacked on redemption of him showing a kid on a play how to shoot a jumper. That just feels like it was like,

we got to put one bumper on here. Because it's just also like when would any, like even in the 90s like old men showing up on playgrounds at night to show guys how to shoot jumpers just like was it. And little kids out on a playground at 10 at night like playing pick up in the dark. Yeah, show me how to shoot a jumper with one hand. That's great. Yeah, that's a little weird.

All right. Would you want to play for Nick Bellty, Titus? I don't think so. No. That was another. The whole Pete Bell character was another. thing that was so close to being accurate, but not accurate, that I kind of was frustrated by it. Because he was obviously a Bob Knight rip off, but Knight wasn't, the misconception about

Knight was that he was just always yelling and screaming and always just like really angry and stuff. Knight was very even killed for most of the time. He just was like, he would say things that were really harsh, but he'd say with a straight face and very calm about it. And then he would snap. And when he'd snap, like, that's when you get the chairs throwing and the, he's bringing a whip into press conferences and all that. that kind of stuff. So that was another thing. It was like kind of frustrated

is that this guy's just a maniac at every second of practice and games and his pep talks and all that kind of stuff. And how did that appeal to Bobby Knight? Because he, or maybe he just didn't read the script. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

probably not. I mean, did you ever play for hard, like a guy who was like a real hard ass? Oh yeah. I grew up in Indiana. Like every coach in Indiana wanted to be Bob Knight. Like that was the thing.

I played for my high school coach. We would run sprints and he'd say we're running until you get it or whatever. Like whatever the time was. and we wouldn't get it because I would probably be not be able to get it. And they'd be like, well, we're running it again. And every time you're running it, you're getting slower because you're getting more tired. And he was like, no, we're going to keep doing this until you get it. I'm like, coach, just, it's simple science.

Like, my body is getting more tired as we're doing this. And so I definitely played for coaches like that. That was all over. He should have faked like a harder rhythm or something. But they always, they did the thing where I forget what the guy's name was, the kid who was shaving points early on before, before he starts cheating. Tony. Yeah, Tony. So they do the thing where he's failing his TV class,

and Coach Bell pulls him to the side, and they do the little thing. And he's like, how's class going? How's life? How's that? And that's the scene that's supposed to say, like, I'm a hard ass and I'm going to yell at you and scream at you. But at the end of the day,

I'm going to make you a better man. And I'm here. I'm your buddy and all that kind of stuff, which is like, it's the thing that IU fans, when they talk about Bob Knight, is they always circle back to that. Like, you might hate him,

but his players loved him. He turned them into men and all that kind of stuff. He drove that player's girlfriend to plan parenthood that time. When he would grab that player's neck, he was doing it from a place of love. Yeah. I mean. So wait,

let me ask you. Do you think that this movie is different if the character is written the same, but Paul Newman is playing Pete Bell? I don't think it's a good... Paul is a little old for that, but like, let's just say someone like with that kind of like... Because Nick Nolte is great actor, but I don't know necessarily that Nick Nolte, especially at that point in his life is what you would call a charismatic actor.

There's been good Nolty and there's been. and bad nulte? I think this is somewhere in the middle. What's your favorite Nulte? 48 hours. 48 hours. He's the bad, because I really just think that's very close to what he's probably like all the time.

But he was also like when I was a kid, he was a guy from rich man, poor man. And he was like going to be the next Q, J-List star and all this stuff. The next Ryan O'Neill. And then, yeah, but he basically became Ryan O'Neill. He became this hard drinking type of guy. But I don't, so if you look at, you're looking at 94, right? So it's got to be somebody within that Bobby Knight kind of age. Paul Newman would have been too old.

I mean, Pacino could have done it. Pacino would have been, but we saw Pacino as a football coach. I would have rather have had that. Nicholson might have been the right age range. I don't know how that would have played. He knows basketball, but then it would just be like, come on, it's Jack Nicholson, who wouldn't take his money. It could have been just Gene Hackman.

I was going to say Gene Hackman. They ripped off Hoosiers with the, they had Ricky Row doing the farm shooting thing like he was Jimmy Chitwood. There's that scene. And then there was a before the big game where they play Indiana, Coach Bell tells Ricky he's like, those goals out there are 10 feet just like your goal back home in Indiana. I was like, this is a little too on the nose.

Like, what are we doing here, you know? So why did I just have you there? The Bobby Knight Hoosiers' Hangover was a real thing in 1994 because Hoosiers at that point, I don't think it's aged as well as, Hoosiers just came out in 86. For the next 15 years, it's the number one sports movie. In any argument, what's the best sports movie? It's Hoosiers.

There might have been a case for the natural for a little while, but then a natural hasn't aged well either. And now I don't even, now I guess it depends on the air. Yeah. Like, Tate, what's your favorite sports movie ever? Hoosiers, Tate. Yeah, probably he got game. He got game.

What's your favorite? Hoosers. I'm from Indiana. Hoosers, okay. So mine's still Hoosiers, but I can see the case against it now. Yeah. I mean, also, Hoosiers has the exact opposite message of this movie, which is that.

Basketball is good. And pure. And this movie is like basketball ultimately will corrupt you unless you're playing in the most purest form of like high school basketball. Hold on. So it has the Hoosiers thing and it has the Bobby Knight Halo because this is coming off. Season in the Brink. Him coaching Steve Alfred and all those guys.

And then Key Smart, the title team. And there was still Bobby Knight Mystique. So I think it took advantage of both. By the way, Nick Nolte apparently shadowed Bob Knight to like get an idea of the month. The season he's shadowed him. IU went to the final four and then they never he never

Bob Knight never went to another final four the rest of his career after Nolte put a curse on him he knew that was it? He never went back to the final four. So that was another fun part of this movie is you know they use the real basketball players and it's this who's who of dudes from

93 somehow Jalen and C-Web not in there but uh Calchaney Bobby Hurley, Rick Foxx, Rodney Rogers it was a movie about paying players Why was... George was in there. The Fab Five didn't want to be in there because it was Chris Mills.

What, Alan Houston? Allen Houston. Yeah. George Lynch. Come on, Tate. Geert Hamick. Travis Ford. Travis Ford.

Travis Ford. Yeah. A lot of good ones. So on the big screen watching, oh, that guy. Oh, that guy. And it was one of those things. But ultimately the basketball was fun to watch,

but it kind of felt like a sports center. I actually wish they should have... There wasn't enough. grafted more. Yeah, there wasn't enough either. Like, if you're going to have all these great guys, and that's like kind of the hook of your movie is we have real scenes, give us more of that.

Yeah, it's kind of like why white man kind of works really well, is even though it's obviously that it's obvious that Wesley can't really play that well. Yeah. All the slow-mo stuff and the fact that it's just a two-man game so that they can play, they can do more creative weird alley-oops and stuff like that. With this, it's like, it's almost just like a hyper version of television broadcast of basketball. Yeah. I think they went too far with that.

But I actually think he felt like they were breaking new ground with the way they were shooting it. But it turned out to be a mistake. Ironically, the best basketball scene in this entire movie is Bob Coosie making 10 straight free films. Great performance for Cozy. Coozy during the press conference is great. Just like him put his head in his hands. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

So I remember when this movie was on cable, they did the little, you know, when they're between movies on HBO and they run like the little 10-minute thing about the movie. and there was something about that scene in the little vignette thing. And apparently that wasn't in the script for him to make all those. So when you watch it, Nicknulty goes, God, don't you ever miss? Like, that's like Adler.

Cousy's just boom, boom, boom. And then goes lefty on the last one. He's like 68 years old or something at the time that that was happening. That was amazing. I love that we all like just buy into that scene as though it makes sense because it's Bob Coo. Because you see him, you need to see Bob Coozy. You don't see like the athletic director. He's playing Vic, though.

Vic D. But if you, If you like step back and apply and look at it as part of the story, the athletic director is talking to the coach about the team and they're just sitting there shooting free throws. Like that has never happened on any college campus. The most unrealistic scene in this movie might be Bob Coosie coming into the locker room after the first loss in the movie.

And he's just like, hey, it's okay. We'll get him next time. You guys played your heart sound. It's like, what AD ever saw? Yeah, no, that's not happening. I think that part of what I want, like, Blue Chips is almost a little too, early in history where I wish, because you've seen too many movies about these hard-ass coaches who actually have a heart of gold, it would be cool to either get a movie that was about a real

slick guy, like a Caliperi-Patino type, and like kind of chasing the night kind of guy, or a real like technocrat Brad Stevens type dude who's like young. Keep me the worst sports movie character. Yeah, but if Boller, if Boller-I love Brad Stevens, but God, that would be boring. If Butler won the title, like that would have been a perfect symbol. That would have to be like a Christian sports movie or something. Give it like a religious spake. I was thinking watching Blue Chips, really it missed its calling as a Netflix series.

Yeah. It doesn't really have a beginning or an ending. And then when it just kind of has to have the ending it has. But if you got to the end of the first season of Blue Chips and that was how it ended, wouldn't you be like, ugh? Then it's like the NCAA is coming after him. Yeah. You streamed that out for like two, three years. Right, the point shaving scandal

could have been the season one cliffhanger. Yeah. You might just keep going and going with it. The point shaving thing to me is the most unrealistic scene. Not that they'd shave points, but that they were able to solve it with a,

with a video cassette in five minutes. And it's just like, Tony's looking at the show for. No, it can't be him enough. Tony's looking at the clock and then just throwing it to the other team. It's like, wait a second. Do you think you're shaving?

Yeah, he might have been. In the history of cinematic point shaving, do you like this or the 20 minute point shaving scene in the gambler. This is worse. The gambler is like a movie about Blackjack until the third act of the gambler is like a movie about Mark

Wahlberg watching guys shave points. Right. And then the ending is just him playing black or red and roulette. It's like, should we have a more ambitious gambling ending? No, no. Just have them play black or red or it could be over. See, if I was a college coach and maybe I'm just a cynical, bad person,

I would always be worried about my guy's shaving points because my guys aren't getting paid. And there's so much money bet on college basketball that if we were like favored by nine and my point guard, we're up 15, he's looking up at the clock during every play and then throwing into the other team, I would immediately be suspicious.

I don't know if this is obvious to you guys or not, but every year to start the season, we would have a meeting with an NCAA person who would talk about point shaving. And the NCAA makes this video that's just as like terrible as you would assume it is. and they try to scare all the players and we all have to watch it

at the start of every college basketball season. I don't know if that was just like the big 10. Would you guys laugh through it? Like it was like a sex ed video? Or is it would anybody be kind of like sweating. It was sex ed videos. Like there would be some guys that would, you know, like kind of just be like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing.

And I'm just laughing hysterically. Like this is so stupid that we're doing this. Do you think guys not to get anybody, you know, indicted? But do you think that guys don't shave points but do prop stuff? Like if there's a prop bet for like, first team to get a foul shot or something i'm not i'm not trying to to cover up i i honestly when i was there like no one had any i everyone just so like one track mind yeah they want to score a lot of points and make the NBA they want to get laid after the game and that's pretty much their only existence

they don't carry about 30 profits on that or get laid during the game as yeah as they're trying to buy those too that's all they care about um so i'm sure there are exceptions obviously but that was that was another part of the movie that was just ridiculous to me was that they it's like they got together and had a brainstorming session of what's all the scummy things that happened in college sports and they made a list and then they had to check every single box for this one program and this one year like or this this one moment in time at this one program like this never happens all at once like it's just one program maybe is buying cars and then the other program shaving points and the other programs do it but to have one program like doing literally everything

where you've got the academic stuff and the recruiting stuff and the point shaving. It's like that's not how it quite works. What is the last time? I mean, when is the last time like somebody has gone from like mediocre to like best recruiting class in the nation

and that hasn't resulted in something happening afterwards? I think we're going to find out now with Washington. With Washington? Yeah, because they're going to get faults in Washington. Yeah. And the kid that, who's the kid this year? Michael Porter's coming in. His dad.

Fultz is leaving, though, right? I know, but back to back years, they got like two absolute stunts. Because that's what, like, kind of happened with SMU, too, right? With the Moody and it's like, yeah, Larry Brown's there and they've got like three amazing high school players. And it was like, gee, really? Like, it took like six months for that to go wrong. That's right, right?

Yeah, then he just got that. He just fell the sword for the team. Sure. Larry Brown, selfless. I remember at Grantland when we made some big, low-key signings. I remember I was getting accused. Yeah. back then of what's going on.

Is he paying these guys? It turned out I was. I was paying every guy. I was sort of bum watching it now, Blue Chips, that they were, they weren't clever enough with how they recruited the, they pulled off these recruiting violations. Because now, like the kid Michael Porter Jr., his dad was hired as an assistant coach on Washington staff. And like, that's how you do it.

And you got to find these new ways to get the money and to get the guys, the jobs and stuff. You wouldn't just drop Alexis off. Yeah. He'll just take. J.T. Walls walking around a parking lot being like, my money is long. It's scrubbed. You'll never find it. He goes to the coach's TV show. He's this crooked booster. It's like, come on in, coach. Oh, he's there with Ricky Roe. They showed up together.

The other really strong thing that stood out to me. And I just feel like I need to mention it is the wife or the ex-wife, I guess. Mary McDonald. Who her entire existence is based around her ex-husband. And her entire view of him is based on how he coaches and how he handles his professional life. Yeah. That, like, he comes over to her house and she's like, no, you lied to me. And you're like, yeah, you did lie. But then you step back and you're like, he lied about like his job. Like, what is this?

How does this affect your personal relationship that he may or may not be paying his players? And she's just way too into this team, especially because she's not even married to him anymore. She feels like she's almost tacked on because there is no moral compass in this movie. So they have to make somebody who's like, this is bad. You know, Titus. Let me introduce you to a very important air in sports movies. The Wet Blanket Girlfriend Slash Wife. Yeah.

This starts with Adrian Babo and Rocky 2, which. which was 79. And for about a 15, 20-year stretch there, any female character just had to be somebody that threw a wet blanket on the lead character. Isn't what you say, wet blanket? Isn't it like I don't want you to get brain damage? No, I think that's a good, that would be a good thing, right?

No. This is just, like, she really has no other role other than to be disapproving. Yeah. Which is how all the female characters are written in all these sports movies. And then eventually they started figuring out, but even that was rocky

because that leads to Kelly Preston. Yeah. But my question is, why not make her, like, just upset that he cares too much about his job and not enough about their marriage. And that's why it didn't work. And maybe that's her angle. But instead, like, she cares almost more than he cares and, like, keep your integrity and all that kind of stuff. Or go the other way and just make it ridiculous and, like, Shaq had sex with her once during the tutoring session. Who do you think is the best actor out of Matt Norver, Shaq, and Penny?

So I'm glad you asked Because I thought about this a lot The acting in this movie is pretty bad I think Shaq stole a couple scenes Shack takes a lot of shit for his acting Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador culturally biased or whatever

He's funny a couple times And I felt this way in the theater too When he's in a scene it's like oh cool It's Shaq But now it's like he's so giant That it's like young skinny Whole Life ahead of him Shaq I don't know I kind of like seeing him

these scenes. He definitely has a sparkle in his eye. Penny Hardaway, you just kind of feel bad for. Yeah. My bit of trivia that I know about, what was the guy that played Ricky Roe, would you say? Matt Nover. Matt Nover? Man Nover, whatever. Matt Nover. How do you not know who Matt Nover is? He was like a role model for you. He was a six-six-six-shooter. Right. He did play at IU. He was just like it was a little bit before my time. I was too young to But didn't you know the legacy of every white six-foot-six-shooter in Indiana? Indiana. He slipped through the cracks. He apparently played against Shaq

in Shaq's final college game. I found this out that IUB, Shaq and Shaq's final college game and Shaq went 12 for 12 from the free throw line. That's a bit of trivia. Wow. That's kind of... Maybe the extra weight threw off his free time. Is that scientifically right? What happens in this movie where they're like, we're Silcozart who's like, yeah,

he went to the army and grew eight inches and once his body caught up, like once his coordination, caught up with how big he was, he became Magic Johnson again? Like, right. Yeah. Does that how bodies work? I think they,

I stopped growing at 5-8, so I don't know. They're basically saying Shack was a desert, desert storm veteran. Yeah, it's like David Robbins, right? It's supposed to be David Rock. He grew six inches in the military.

But yet he's in Louisiana in this part of Louisiana that I don't, I've never even, to take a boat to get up the run to the jungle. He's been in Europe and played Juko. Yeah.

So he's 25? Yeah. It's a lot of life. That's like Jack Kerouac right there. I also love the, I could see this in 1973, but in 1993 that there's some franchise center, nobody's heard of.

He's just in Algiers. Just playing basketball. Tuck away on a nine and a half foot rim or whatever that was that he's just abusing those poor kids trying to guard him. Yeah, I mean, it would be absolutely impossible to have that character today because it would be like the Thaunmacher.

or like that would be the YouTube mixtape would already be up about this kid no matter what. Would you have ever gone to a coach and said I want 30K in a tractor? I wish I would have. I wanted a coach who just want me at all. Yeah, no, that's just the audacity of that. That's what I mean. Like there are a lot of scenes like that. I'm sure it does happen.

I'm not good enough to know. Would Evan Turner have done that? No. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think it works like that. And he was the most self-assured person you ever played with. Right. But I also, I should note that when I was at Ohio State, I was kept away from the recruits.

And it was explained to me. Really? I was the only guy during the four, of all my teammates, I was the only guy on the team for the four years that never once hosted a recruit. Even like the other walk-ons hosted recruits. And I brought it up to Coach Mata, who I love. I love Thad Mata to death. And he really likes me. And I brought it up to one time.

And his answer was, we didn't let you host recruits because we wanted the recruits to come here. That was all they said. That feels flat. You know what? I respect that. I respect that decision, coach. That was that. So big winners of this movie. I think Bob Coosie won. Yeah. Rick Petino. Richard Petino. How about Ed O'Neill getting to play a guy named Ed? Ed O'Neill, who's, I guess, the Pulitzer Prize winning investigator. We should talk about Ed O'Neill's character because the other thing that jumped out to me is he's got the lead on this big case. It's going to be the case of this entire program. and instead of like kind of maneuvering behind the scenes or like asking coach

privately he like breaks his story in front of everybody yeah but he doesn't really have a story yet he's just like I got to ask I wouldn't be doing my job like if you're like if you had like evidence that lebron was doing peds which I know you do I know you have a lot of evidence you're not gonna you know what I do not have evidence but if you had if you had like some break it on this podcast you had some juicy story you wouldn't go to a press conference and just like throw it out to the whole world. Wouldn't you like kind of go behind the scenes and try to build something? That's normally what reporters do, yes.

Right. When that reporting is, I didn't go to journalism school, but I assume that's how it typically works. So that was kind of outrageous to me that that was just. Ed O'Neill was just gratuitous casting. Yeah. Yeah. It was married with children era.

And Mary McDonald was coming off dances with wolves. And Independence Day. She was like in some of the biggest movies of the 90s. And what was the other on Grand Canyon? She was in sneakers. She had a nice little run. Yeah. Never totally understood it.

I think she caught some bolted lightning there. It was like the Penelope and Miller kind of just in a couple movies where you're like, wow. Yeah. She's kind of banging these out. When the big climatic game when they beat Indiana, coach comes into the press conference and the media is just clapping, like going absolutely nuts. Like, coach, you did it. I mean, Brian Curtis would have a field day with that.

Brian Curtis would not have liked that. How many rebounds did Neon have? And like it takes like five guys. 13, 13. Imagine Doc Rivers be like, how many, how many boards did he have? The thing that, you know, so people are probably asking themselves, well, why did this make Sports Movie Hall of Fame then? First of all, it's incredibly rewatchable.

For all its flaws, it's just, there's never really a point in the movie where you're like, oh, man, this is dragging or, oh, man, let's fast forward. Everything's good. The music is excellent. Like they had this cool blues soundtrack of various points, but then they also use real songs. A little Mellencamp at the end. Look it out by back door.

Oh, yeah. The Jimmy Hendrick song, when he's going to find out of Tony Shaped points. Yeah. They're playing. I think it was all on the watchtower. Yeah. So it's just, it's good.

It's a well done basketball movie that is somehow not totally gratifying. And yet I, if it's on, I'm always like, oh, I'm just going to watch the one part with Shack here. And I just find myself getting sucked in for these little stretches. It's definitely like a really interesting time capsule movie. to because it's just that's that was right when that was right before you started just getting like a scandal du jour and you would just you know like there would just be like a like this team would go up

and this team would come down and it was you know right it was just really when people I think were like before the internet yeah and people but there was enough information out there like you had your street and Smith's annual like yearbooks and stuff and people were like oh man billy owens is at syracuse oh man like chris weber's going to michigan like anthony hardaway's going to Memphis. Like, why is he going to Memphis? You know, like all this stuff that was like, people were starting to figure that stuff out. Yeah.

And it was just perfectly time for that. Yeah, because the 80s wasn't like that. Yeah. We didn't know in the 80s so-and-so was going to this college or that or like, I can't tell you one time that I ever heard other than, I guess there's two Ralph Samson and Patrick Ewing were the two big centers where it was a huge deal where they're going to play. But they were like, Samson was seven foot four and he was on the cover. S. And Patrick Ewing was like the greatest high school center. They thought he was going to be next Bill Russell.

But other than that, the guys would sneak up or there'd be like a Hakeem Elijahwan type story was like they found this guy from Nigeria. They'd be like New York point guard. Everyone's so wild. New York would just be like a couple of guys like they, because the New York, they would wind up getting national press out of New York high schools and stuff. Like I remember Kenny Anderson, Dennis Scott and Brian Oliver was like a huge thing. But like Larry Johnson ending up at UNLV and he was like 30 years old when he was there.

but he was at Juco for two years and they got him and they brought him in. Steve, he might have been older. Yeah, but I never remember in the moment like, oh, they got Larry Johnson. When everything changed was the Fab Five. Yeah. So that was like, I think, 91.

But when they stacked that team and with the recruits, that was the first time I remember really paying attention like, oh. Yeah. And I think you started like Cal at Memphis. I started playing it out. How do you get Derek Rose?

True, true, true. Yeah, but that was much later though. What was that? That was like... But when did Cal started in Memphis, though? No, Kyle, the UMass was the one. Cal started at UMass. And he can be...

Yeah. Yeah. He was dirty at UMass, dirty at Memphis. But he cleaned up his act when he got to Kentucky. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, definitely cleaned up his act. Oh, there was a coach, Coastal Carolina coach. I remember hearing this.

Saw the movie Blue Chips. His name was Russ Bergman, I think. He played with Pete Marevich, actually. But saw the movie Blue Chips and basically, basically, felt so guilty about what Pete Bell went through that he admitted to some infractions based on... Change the lives. Yeah, like he came out

of the movie like, I need to clean my conscience here. Still a very program. Cozo Carolina, yeah. Allegedly. That was the thing that happened. We had a lot of fun doing this with white man can't jump. We got to reboot it. Yeah. So let's reboot Blue Chips for now.

So, I'm glad you asked. I think it's a Netflix series. And I think the co-ed is the most important thing. But the cool thing about rebooting anything now is all these guys are so hungry to have this second life and in, you know, either as an actor or social media or whatever, I feel like you could get any player you want. Anybody under 25, like really like Emmanuel Moodye is not going to want to be in the blue chips

remake and all these dudes. I want to be like one of the token white dudes that's out there, you know. He's ready. He's in shape. Yeah. He's ready to be Ricky Rose like son. Yeah. But this is why I think Rick Fox is going to be remembered as somebody who's just way ahead of his time.

Like Rick Fox, Blue Chips, Eddie, he got game, bangs it out in a four-year span. And Oz and he's playing basketball and he's about to win titles in the Lakers. He was a good player when he was doing all this stuff. He kind of saw the future. He saw how to parlay all these different things. Shaq went the other way. Shaq tried it. Shaq didn't do the basketball thing as much.

But yeah, I think with blue chips, the coach would be the key. So it's got to be somebody who's in that 50 to 54 range, right, that we have some history with. Yeah. Or you could do something younger. Like you could try to do like Jamie Fox as like a shock of smart type guy or something like that. I like how you switch colors on it. Well, just you could make somebody just like I'm a young guy trying to break in here. And like you could have a whole AAU subplot.

You could have. So you're basically doing like the Andy Enfield U.S.C. type of. That'd be good with Shaka Smart because he was like the hot young coach of VCU and then he got to Texas and they suck now. So maybe he's like going through the Texas boosters. Should I start cheating? Should I start? Now he's like the under 18s coach just like conveniently like going to get some signatures there probably.

Or maybe do it with that. Maybe it's a guy who's coaching Duke University who's had a lot of success who also happens to be the Olympic team coach. Like Giumati. And leverages the Olympic team connections for who are huge recruiting. advantage and then claims that he's all about education, but it's just one and done every year. Jack Nicholson is Jerry Colangelo? I don't know who that coach would be, but maybe that's somebody.

Maybe this coach, like, he hires an old assistant of his who got fired from his other job for recruiting violations. And then when that assistant comes to the program, they start landing five stars left and right. Yeah. Like maybe a coach like that, for example. Yeah, something like that. And it always seems like he's going to retire, but it never does.

Yeah, that's interesting. And he has this other rival at a school, maybe in this, like in Kentucky somewhere like that everyone blames for the stuff. I think that's a cool idea. That's what you came up with that by yourself. Koster? I don't know. The thing that you got to have is somebody,

Costa doesn't strike me as somebody who can be that morally compromised. Like I feel like you need like Alec Baldwin. Like Michael Douglas? Yeah, somebody who's just like Baldwin turns into like an S&L sketch. Hey, El Fah Baldwin now is anything he's in is an S&L so I can't take him as a real actor anymore. Giamati would be good. No, stop selling me on Giamatti.

You might have be a good, just stop. Like, I've been coaching New York basketball for 25 years. That would be funny. I just had a... I played for Luke Conaseca. You reminded me of something. If Tom Hanks is in Blue Chips, if Tom Hanks is Pete Bell, that would be great.

Is it a totally different movie? But didn't Tom Hanks make that movie? It's a league of their own? Yeah, but he's like kind of drunk pot-belly version of Pete Bell. I don't really know, like, what Nolty was going for with, people, I think is one of my issues with the movie. It's like he didn't really have a vice. Yeah, except though, there is one scene.

This is, there's not a lot of like, oh man, this is so nostalgic to see. Like, there's a couple like shack wearing Zubas or whatever scenes. But there's one part scene where when Ricky comes in to be like, I'm going to come to college here, so I want 30 grand. And the cutaway is Nick Nolte sitting on the couch and he's got a giant glass of high sea. And it's like before we knew sugar was bad. So it was just like an old fan drinking fruit punch. And it's just amazing. I was just like, oh, yeah, that was before you knew that would kill you.

Like he's going to die in two years. Well, with the first sports movie Hall of Fame Pod we did, we talked about how 96 was kind of the cutoff. Yeah. And how everything 96 and after just became more nuanced. Yeah. It made sense. It wasn't just like, hey, here's a college basketball movie.

and we're going to try to tell you everything about college basketball in 100 minutes. The ambition became much more like characters. Let's pick a piece of college basketball blow it out. He got game, which is another movie. A lot, you know, it's a lot about college basketball. It does it so much more effectively than Blue Chips. Blue Chips is like the blown out parody version of a college basketball movie. That's my gripe is that it has zero nuance whatsoever.

It's just like trying to show everybody what college basketball is. And I guess maybe if you don't know, that's interesting. But for someone like me who kind of live that, it's like this is just absolutely ridiculous. The reality is that we just all like college basketball. And I know all the college basketball movies that have ever been made. And I think I've seen all of them a combined 500 times. Yeah. Because you go back to one-on-one with Robbie Benson.

Fast break. My favorite sports movie of all time. That's, I think, is banned from cable because it's so inappropriate for so many reasons. How have we made it this long without talking about the. too to Larry Bird. I was saving that for the tail end. Yeah. So it's post-retirement legend.

They go, we'd see his house, which I have to admit in 1990, I might have popped one. I just ran my pants, just right of lost it. But then he's like, I'll take you to Ricky. I know where he lives.

But then he's not in the next scene. You know what that meant? They got Larry Bird for one day of shooting. Yeah. And somebody called in like the biggest favor of all time. Yeah. And he also,

he also says, coach, what do you want? Like he, you live in a town of 200 people and there's this five star recruit and this college coach

from L.A. flies to your town and comes to see you. And then you go like, so what is it? What do you want to talk to Rick? And he's like, and he's like,

oh, oh, is that what you want? Like, you're shocked. Of course. Like, what? That's why you're in French-Lacon deal. I would never guess. The, uh,

the, uh, the Luggette Jr. Camio that happens. Like when Luke Gossett walks out and he's like, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah.

I forgot about the Lucasa came in. Yeah. Of the recruiting. Larry Bird. I think this was his only movie appearance. Was that the house that he was at when he heard his back? Was that the one? That's the.

Yeah. That was the end of the early 90s Celtics dire. What's the Daniel Stern movie? Oh, Celtics pride. And Larry doesn't have a cameo in there? No, Larry doesn't have a cameo in there? He's in Space Jam. Oh, he is in Space Jam.

They got Larry Bird and Bob Nub. in this movie. And Bob Coosie. That is absolutely shocking. Absolutely shocking. Could have Bob Coosie wins the movie. Bob Coosie? Yeah.

Biggest loser? Probably Matneover. It's like Shaq and it's Penny and then it's Mattnover. Yeah. And then Bob Knight's, I mean, Nick Nalti's just really mean to him twice. Yeah. Get out of here, Ricky! Like you just, I thought you were trying to recruit this guy.

You're kicking him out of his office. Yeah. And then he's being to him a second time. He tells me to get out. Yeah, he, like, throws the keys out of him. Another big winner from this movie is the Orlando Magic. Yeah. So we didn't mention that part because they filmed this movie right after they had made the penny trade.

It was Shaq and Penny together. And then they had a fun first season together. I think that, I think that's how it went. Was it the 94 draft or 93? I thought they made the movie and Shaq was like, I love this guy. Is that, is that? That's what happened? I think they were filming it.

And Shaq liked them. Blue chips brought those two together. I think it did. That's amazing. So then this... That's what I said in this magic moment. He was like, I like playing with this guy. Yeah, he was so impressed by the play of Hardaway

that he strongly encouraged the Orlando Magic to draft him, according to Winkip. So Blue Chips swung the Orlando Magic thing. And then that comes out and they're together. But like, what's the equivalent of it? It would almost be like if Durant and Westbrook had been in Blue Chips in 2008. But then the domino effect is if Blue Chips doesn't get made, does Penny never go to the magic?

And does Shack never then go to the Lakers? Penny's on the water. Warriors. Sea Webb goes to Orlando and C-Web and Shaq are feuding immediately, I think. Right. I just don't like they ever get along. Yeah. Any point of that.

That's like the boogie Anthony Davis thing, how that's going to play out. But at the time, it was like stunning when they took, it was like, oh, my God, Shaq and Seab are going to be in the same team. This is going to be the greatest basketball team of all time. Now it's like the warriors would just space them out. You'd have to take one of them off the floor. Blue chips. Final grade?

B minus for me. So you would not have put this in the Hallfam. No, but it's just different because it's not a movie that is like lovable. So all these other movies in their own way are like either like really campy or they're like just really feel good movies or they're really smart. This one's like good. But it's like it's definitely just like a unflinching dark look at sports. As a comedy, it's an A minus for me. Unintentional comedy.

Unintentional comedy. As like whatever it was trying to be, I'd say like a C, yeah, C minus. What do you guys say that? I think whenever I wrote about this, I remember comparing it to Penny Hardaway's MBA career. It's just an incredible amount of promise. Started out great. Really, Blue Chip's first half hour is really good. Yeah.

Some bumps, ultimately not that satisfying. and yet kind of a tiny bit underrated now after all these years. And yeah, you'll remember it. Yeah, as you get older. It's one of a kind. Penny was one of a kind. Better than you remembered, which I think it goes the same for Penny. Like Penny was first team all NBA in 95 or 96, one of those years, led a team to the finals with Shaq, made $140 million.

There's $150 million something. It's not like he was a bust. Like he had a pretty good career. And I think that's the Blue Chips legacy. It's totally watchable. I don't think that, like, I know there are people that, like, they love He Got Game. There are people that, like, they love White Men Can't Jump or, like, people like me that love Fast Break. I don't know if there's...

Is there like a Blue Chips hive? A blue chip. Yeah, I don't know. Like, Blue Chips, that's my movie, man. When Tony was point shaving. Yeah. Yeah. I love it when he drinks high C.

Yeah. But really, like, for a 10-year stretch, it's the only college hoop movie of its time. A lot of Blue Chips. posters which is a great poster great poster with Shaq and Nolte on it

one of the best posters yeah would you go above the rim or blue chips because that was the same year I'd go blue chips

I like blue chips better and above the room above the room's incredible now above the rim is a masterpiece I think we know

our next one then it's a masterpiece it's just fantastic we'd rife and I think Andrew Sharpe and I

think we wrote 8000 words about above the room for Greatland. Yeah. Was that Concepcion or Sharp? I can't even remember. I can't remember anything anymore.

All right. That's it for Sports Movie Hall of Fame. We have, uh, do we know what the next one is yet? Should we take suggestions? Yeah, let's get some suggestions. I have a couple in mind. Maybe we'll do a Facebook poll when we post the link for this podcast and we'll give you four choices.

Yeah. And you can vote on the choices. Do you have a suggestion, Mark Titus? Don't say Hoosiers. Oh, that's the only suggestion I have. Is there any other suggestion? I'd have to think about it. Nothing jumps out to me now.

Nothing jumps out after 50 years of sports movies, nothing? I mean, Hoosiers is the one. That's the, I would say, like, mighty ducks for people that are my generation. Would you go Mighty Ducks or Ducks 2? Ducks 2, probably. That's probably the better one. Hard cast. So I think, yeah.

See, I think you guys are like, you have a blind spot to like the. I don't have a blind spot at all. Well, yeah. I do. The podcast does. You know, we need some, yeah. We tried to keep it last 20 years, but I think now we're going to try to dip our toes a little bit. There's a couple of suggestions I hear a lot are Creed, the replacements.

Replacements. A league of their own. He's got game. So we should mix up. We've been hopping from sport to sport. I'm almost ready for Creed. I think I've almost seen it enough times. Yeah.

The ATV scene. Is that we call those things? Those little four-wheel things? The meek mill scene, yeah. Amazing. Remember the Titans? Is that too obvious? No, that's a good one.

That's a good one. Here's my thing about Remember the Titans. Did we have to paralyze the guy? It's based on a true story. Can you just blow down his knee? Do we have to put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life? It's a feel good sports movie. I can't get out.

Every time I watch it, I'm like, why do they do that? And then Kate Bosworth, I think, is the sexiest racist in the history of movies. Like, she's fantastic and she's so hateful. There's never been like a more hateful. We're definitely not doing remember the type of right. We definitely just have to hope no one is still listening.

There's never been a more hateful, hot character. I can remember in any movie. Like, she's the worst person ever. And it's like, wow, Kate Bosworth looks great. Meanwhile, she's just horrible. You're not backing me in this? I don't, which part? The paralyzing or the Cape Bosworth part?

Cape Osworth. I honestly didn't remember the Cape Bosworth. All I remember is Goswold. She looks unbelievable. She looks unbelievable in it. And she's the worst person. So yeah, that's another. Maybe we should just save this for the remember the Titans back.

Yeah, I think so. I think you hit on something. It also has one of my favorite tropes, which is the eight-year-old girl who knows sports as well as the adults. Oh, yeah. The human being that's never existed ever. She knows how to like break down the West Coast offense. It's like, this human doesn't exist.

Anyway, all right, we'll save that for the next time. Mark Titus. Thanks, guys. Thank you. We'll save you for the Hoosiers one. Yeah. Chris Ryan. Take care.

It was great. You cannot lose.