The Rewatchables - ‘Body Double’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey head to the adult section for a copy of 'Holly Does Hollywood' on VHS after rewatching Brian De Palma’s 1984 erotic thriller ‘Body Double,’ starring Craig Wasson and Melanie Griffith. Watch this episode on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel! Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA. And check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of

podcasting right on the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI powered image and video generation. Build for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at adobe.com slash firefly. This episode is brought to you by Apple and AT&T. Scroll long enough and you'll hear it all. Miracle diets, fitness trends, you name it. But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source. your body.

You can track sleep quality, cardio fitness, and more than unpack all the information in the health app on iPhone to get a picture of your overall health. These health insights are developed with clinical experts

from start to finish. Find out more at Apple.com slash health. Apple Watch is not a medical device and should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer podcast network.

It is no longer scary month. We are back to the normal podcast. Sean Fennacy is here, host of The Big Picture. Yeah. Chris Ryan, president of Linda Shaw Enterprises. Can it be horny November? It sure can be. You have a new film coming out, Deep Ghost?

The mating game? I'm not some stunt cop, Bill. Body double is next. Don't blink. You're about to witness a crime of illusion, an act of deception, a vision of murder. Brian DePolma, Body Double. You can't believe everything you see. Rated R.

Starts Friday at a theater near you. All right, Body Double, 40th anniversary this fall, Brian DePama, Sean's Guy. Where's he in your Sean's Guy rankings? Oh, my God. Is he one? He's my number one pervert. Schrader number one? Who's number one?

Um, guys who are like, what I'm really thinking about is cranking it, he's number one. That's like all of his movies when you're watching him, he's like, gosh, I really like how that lady looks. That's what's running through his mind. In that ranking, he's number one. So this is Just the Kill Across with Rear Window, Crossed with Vertigo. Mm-hmm. And you just get the feeling to Palma, who I think was post-cocaine at this point, right? Well, hard to say, because you've got, you've got Steve.

Stephen Bauer and Melanie Griffith being critical participants in this movie. But there's one interview he gave where he was like, everyone was basically in Cocaine's Anonymous playing Tribal Pursuit, and that's how he got to know Melanie Griffith better. Yes. I think it's right after Scarfish. I think stylistically, there were still some granules on the bag. Maybe there's some dust still?

Like maybe not ingested, but it's like the pixie dust on screen is definitely... A misting. Yeah. My feeling is he just watched a bunch of Hitchcock movies and was like, What if these were Wayhornier and then was off? Yeah, you can say that about a lot of movies in his career. Yeah. Many of his best movies are thrillers that are overtly inspired by Hitchcock,

but he's like, now we can show breasts on screen, and he's excited about that. But also, an incredible mastery of filmmaking craft, much like Hitchcock. Yes. C.R. I just find this movie to be so delightful, even though it's so twisted and fucked up. Like, this is like a very funny movie. It reminds me kind of like David Lynch movies sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. Why is he making that face? And that's what makes it so rewatchable to me is just like you can find all these little details in this thing. Like, oh, I didn't notice that this guy was standing behind the pay phone at that moment. You know? Yeah. Like it's a freeze frame movie.

It's a like rewind the scene movie. It's so fun. Is it possible only guys like this movie? Because I tried to make my wife watch this with me. And multiple times in the first hour, she was like, this is terrible. You're doing this on the rewatchables? Why are you doing this?

Yeah. And then she just left. Does Carrie have a lot of Twitter accounts? No, maybe. I think he has made movies in his career that women like, you know, Carrie, for example, is a movie that women really love.

Body double is... Women love the untouchables. Yeah. They do not. Snake eyes they're big fans of. But this is maybe his most the most pure distillation of his id. You know, the thing, this idea of watching women move,

he has said is a huge inspiration for this movie. He loves to literally follow women and observe how they move. And that's a part of the telling of this story. Man, there's this amazing interview out there. I can't remember which one it is, but it's like this guy's asking to Palma all these sort of probing questions about like, or do you make immoral or amoral art and all this stuff?

And he's like, you know, why do you always have to, it's the woman, woman's the victim. him and not the man. He's like, it's way more entertaining. Yeah, I saw that interview. Yeah. It was just like, it's way more interesting. What did he mention? He mentioned Still the Night with Roy Scheider and he's like, it sucked. Nobody wants Roy Scheider

in danger. Yeah, Audrey Hepburn, blind? That's awesome. Yeah. He's given, him and Schrader are probably leaders in the clubhouse for just awesome, letting it fly. Yeah, I don't give any more interviews. Yeah, yeah. I'll just throw bombs left and right. But De Palma has

always been like that. There's a great clip of De Palma on Dick Cavett's show with Scorsese in the early maybe mid-70s. And even then, he's just, he's being such a sarcastic little bastard for every question that Dick Cavett asks. He never really cared, which is part of it makes him great. Yeah, I mean, if you

have that kind of talent, you can afford to be that cocky, but, you know, there's so many different ways his career could have gone if probably he played ball like five more percent. But then it wouldn't be these movies. They would be slightly different, you know? This was the most power he had, because he's coming off a stretch, from 76 to 83,

Carrie, the Fury, dress to kill, blow out, Scarface. And then Columbia is like, three-picture deal, go. And he's like,

thank you. I will go, actually. I have some ideas. I was doing Dress to Kill and there was a whole thing when Angie Dickinson's body double.

And I thought, hmm, what a cool idea for a movie. And then I watched every Hitchcock movie and I lost my mind. He also, I think,

was getting a lot of backlash for those movies that were the ones you listed off that were so popular. And some directors and some artists might be like, oh, okay, I'll soften it up a little bit. I'll change gears. He's just like, I'm going to go 110% in the direction

that people criticize me in. You know, violence. Even to the end. Yeah, nudity, sex. Yeah. He just throws in a blood going over a body double's breast scene just to end the movie. For the credits.

Yeah. He's like this, basically. Hey, guys. I do think he's weirdly, though, being honest about the fact that this is what he believes. these people want because he's like, this is what I want. What I love is high-toned, beautifully imagined violence and sex. That's a human impulse. And there's nothing wrong with rendering it and making fun of the fact that this is what we like. Like, this movie is, it's a comedy. It's a satire.

Like, it's meant to be fun and funny and ridiculous. It's all on purpose. So I don't, I don't blame him for pursuing that. I wrote the Wikipedia. The description should have been, an emasculated, cucked, claustrophobic, stalking, peeping, Tom, want to be adult film producer, almost finds love with a porn actress and an embattled wife who gets murdered by a drill.

Dressed to kill, coming up next. It's pretty accurate. Yeah. It's one of the weirdest, and I want to really go into the casting of that, one of the weirdest protagonists we've had. But it seems like a big inspiration for him. It was really fun reading all the diploma interviews.

I watched a documentary. He said in 2012, because he was doing press for the 40th anniversary. I think why my type of movies last so long is they're very cinematic. Cinema kind of died with celluloid because you don't have the same cinematographers anymore. You don't have film anymore. It's now completely dominated by the writers and showrunners, and the movies and shows are basically radio plays full of people talking to each other,

and they're all shooting digitally. It doesn't look very interesting. He was very obsessed with look. I had a very funny experience with this where I, watched it once and then I was kind of like watching it to take notes and I'm obviously very used to watching TV at this point where I kind of more or less just need to hear it. It's almost like a podcast with moving pictures. Yeah, I mean like especially if you're like watching a lot, you're just like, oh, okay, like these two people are talking about whether this guy is the bad guy or not.

And it's like they're sitting in a room. You don't really, it's not like there's going to be some amazing piece of filmmaking that you miss. But I actually like I got to go get a bottle of water while body level was on. And I was like, oh, I missed, like, I missed the whole point of this being on film on screen in the first place is to visually stimulate and or terrify and or accelerate your heartbeat. And that the dialogue is basically secondary in this film. And in many DePaul in the films. Even the story, which is, like, labyrinthine and confusing at times.

And kind of silly. But not very good. You know, like the story of this movie, because he talks about this, how it's all about this. He wants the structure. Like, he's interested in the structure, and then everything else that goes into it, the plotting and the dialogue is sort of like the details you have to figure out afterwards.

He's like, but I have an idea about a movie where a guy observes someone, but the person that he's observing isn't the person he thinks it is. Like, that's the thing that gets him excited about making the movie, which is different than we're making a new TV series

and it has a high concept and what's most important is that the dialogue crackle. He doesn't care about that stuff. That's why I have, like, 13 nitpicks coming up later. There's some holes. It's flawed. Yeah, it's flawed. I love it though.

I saw this movie. I did not see in the theater. I've never seen this movie in the theater, actually. I would like to see this movie in the theater. I would too. I haven't either. Yeah, I saw this. This was in the HBO, you know, early blockbuster, Vortex.

I'm a teenager. And it was like, this was a run where we had American Gigolo, dress that kill, body heat, postman always rings twice, thief a hearts, crimes of passion, tightrope and body double in five years in the early 80s. I'm going to call this horny fles. film noir. I think that's exactly like erotic thriller crossed with film noir and it's a specific category. It even shifts

as the 80s go along because then in the late 80s we get into this nine and a half weeks, angel heart, fatal attraction, masquerade. It becomes more popcorn. Adrian Line kind of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are more like really cool Hitchcock

homage type movies or... I think it's a hinge point between body heat and basic instinct. You know what I mean? Like if those are really the two poles of that era of those kinds of movies and two of the best examples. Body double is like the most lurid but the most mainstream at the same time. Yeah. Well, as a teenager, it worked.

It was great. Fell in love with Melanie Griffith. So what was your relationship to her before this movie? Only knew her from one-on-one with Robbie Benson. She played the hitchhiker. Didn't know any of the lore. Because she was in some movies in the 70s when she was a teenager. She had a little run as a teenager.

She's in like drowning pool, night moves. Yeah, a smile. Pretty severe problems in the early 80s. I think pretty legendary wild child. And then I think cleaned it up a little bit. And then by the end of the 80s, it was one of the biggest actions we had. Yeah.

Like she's in Working Girl, that movie is a phenomenon. Her 80s, her mid-80s is even more amazing than I had remembered. Yeah. The run that she goes on after this movie is incredible. Yeah. And that's when Something Wild happens, right? Something Wild is immediately after it, Fear City, the Abel-Farar movie.

and then she's in Malagro Beanfield War, the Robert Redford movie, and Working Girl in the same year. She also had... It's pretty rare that somebody had the exact look of the look you needed in the year. Like you see her in this movie, it's exactly what a lot of the musicians

looked like, a lot of, like, the porn actresses looked like, you name it. It was just wrestlers, whoever it was. She just kind of fit in perfectly. Yeah. And then it crests with Pacific Heights, It's one of the great movies of all time.

It's up there. When she battles Carter Hayes. It's up there with La Note. Yeah. Her versus Carter Hayes is where her career. Have you done that on the show? No, we've been saving it. Okay, all right.

There's from hell. It might be from hell month. From hell year. Yeah, just from hell year. Yeah. Just from hell until we run out. Do we have the election to determine that? Yeah, maybe.

De Palma said about this movie at the time, if this one doesn't get an X, Nothing I ever do is going to. This is going to be the most erotic and surprising and thrilling movie I know how to make. I'm going to give them everything they hate more of it than they've ever seen. They think Scarface was violent. They think my other movies were erotic. Wait until they see body double.

You dropped a little bit of you think you better than me. I know, it was. Boston Bryant. You think I can't push in an envelope. He didn't actually get to do what he wanted to do, though. But that's, I was going to have this for the hottest take that I feel like this movie's pretty tame compared to what the potential of it was. I agree.

Because you've watched crimes of passion now. That movie is insane. Yeah. I think that this movie pretends like it's incredibly horny and titillating and is actually more about like how funny and weird all this like sex industry and sex it can be. Yeah. And so that's he's like selling you on like, yeah, it's a lot of topless chicks in this movie. It's great. But then you get there and you're like, oh, this actually isn't this isn't titillating at all because it's like what?

if this was just a day job for people, you know? Yeah, but also spending two hours with Craig Watson, who's like the weirdest dork of all time. Can we talk a little bit about the casting of the leading man stuff? I have that right here. Two more things on De Palma. He hired this writer to work on the scripts

of Robert Averick, who later said his work on the film was working off De Palma's ideas of Hitchcock's ideas. So there you go. And then De Palma, the research and this was great. He originally planned for this to be the first Hollywood film tab unsimulated sex scenes.

That's what I was referring to. And the studio was like, no, thank you. I'd like to know that quote that you read of his if that came before he got told he could not do that. Yeah.

Because he was like, I'm going to make a mainstream porno. That's my plan here. And didn't get the chance. The 80s were great. As we've said many times, just cocaine was fueling a lot of the creativity

from 78 to 86. It's just, it's so funny because it took us like 37 minutes to get to work today. And I was like, I'm watching these guys just like drive their gas guzzling convertibles, like from Culver City to the Hollywood Hills in five minutes. And I'm like, ah, goddamn it. Yeah, cast incision.

So in order, Craig Wasson is the lead. He's like, Bill Maher crossed with Breck and Meyer. Nailed it. I'm going to pass out how that's so good. Like, that's exactly what he looks like. It's like if they had a kid? That's perfect. I have no idea why he's the lead of the movie.

and I think De Palma's smarter than us so there had to have been a reason he wanted to have somebody who wasn't an actual A-Lister or a star Yeah I think people have talked about it like it just doesn't work if it's Travolta Exactly it doesn't work if it's Al Pacino or something and like you're like oh that's alpuccino or John Travolta Who's a big time movie star that you would also describe as a cuck? Does one exist? Well but nobody would want that part where it's like hey cool I'm doing this movie where I walk in on my

girlfriend riding somebody in my room. It's not like he's like, oh no, he's like, and he just kind of like skulks out of the room. Like it's so emasculating. Yeah. So that's why. Because I had him recasting couch. I was like, if Kurt Russell is this guy, is this a better movie or a worse movie?

I think it's a worse movie, but you get a better lead performance. I think that, you know, I don't want to get too far ahead, but like, Tom Hanks is kind of perfect for this part. I thought about Tom Hanks too. Because what he's doing is he's trying to recreate the Jimmy Stewart part. The regular, the ordinary man that Hitchcock was so good at portraying.

And in the 40s and 50s and 60s, the ordinary man stars were, seem more like regular guys. They didn't seem like Tom Cruise or they didn't seem like Patrick Swayze or John Travolta. They were like, they look like somebody's dad. Yeah. But a more handsome version. And so that isn't really. the trend in 84, and so he leans into a guy who, you know, seemingly as a dweep. Could it have been Dreyfus?

I walked in on my girlfriend. I can't do. You do a better Dreyfus than me. It's like, come on. The bite radius on my girlfriend was not from a tiger shark. It's pretty good. Yeah, that was good. Sometimes you got to defer to CR with the impersonations.

Wasn't Dreyfus, like, lost at this time? He was done. Yeah, but he had been in Goodbye girl. Like, he had been in jobs. But that was five years earlier. Yeah. But the whole point is that this guy literally is the dude who moves to L.A. to be an actor, thinks he's hot shit, finds out he is like the 350th draft pick in that town.

And spends all of his time doing B movies or going to auditions and going to acting classes. So he's kind of perfect. Yeah. But he's also as a quarterback. He's a game manager at best. I think that he's perfect in the first act of. the movie. Kind of the min shoe.

When it changes over, when the playoffs come in this film, I think you want a little bit more of like a blue chip arm behind. Can you do the claustrophobic face? This movie also did nothing for his career. No. Everything that comes after this is... Because he won a Golden Globe for an Arthur Penn movie that I'd never heard of for Friends.

Oh yeah, sure. And he kind of just does like a lot of voiceover work and he's done a lot of B-movies. Could you have talked yourself in a Caruso? David Caruso. Oh, yeah. There's no way anyone would cheat on David Caruso. Purely Caruso, like, two years after Officer and a German Caruso. Stop of Legends!

Can you imagine watching Gloria? Stop of Legends! Stop of Legends! It's a really weird lead choice. It's for movies that I really like and I've seen a million times, this is probably the weirdest number one person in a movie. It still sticks out. him in the credits, it's like, ah.

Yeah. He is the star of the movie. Yeah, Star of a movie. Beli Griffith is only in like 18 minutes of this movie. Star of a, like, a top five at the time, famous director. Yep. Just was like, that's my guy. I was watching this in like the first eight minutes after he leaves the set and he's like, stops

and gets hot dogs with onions on everything. I love that. He's like that. And he's like picking everything up and he keeps jumping into his car. He doesn't like get in through the door. I was like, did I pick the, like, am I having a stroke? Is this actually the first 15 minutes of this movie? Is this guy just like

kind of haggling across Los Angeles? And it's really strange because you're just like, this dude is not a movie star. No. No. There are a lot of people like this guy who come to Hollywood and they're like, I know maybe I'm missing a couple things, but I feel like, and they point to two actors that maybe they

can follow that path. Yeah. Yeah. And within five years, they're moving back to Kansas City. And then Giamati's like, fuck no. Get out of here. It's like, clear out. So, Giamatti could have been somebody 30 years later, right? Yeah. He could have been dead as friends, yeah.

Deborah Shelton, who plays Gloria Ravel, is so bad in this movie that they had to redub her voice with Helen Schaber, which I don't ever remember reading and we've done 363 rewatchable, so I don't ever remember

somebody being cast. It's almost like a spaghetti western. It almost makes his interactions with Gloria feel like otherworldly. Yeah. I just watched a movie called Death Game with Seymour Cassell where the same thing happened

where at the end of the movie that they needed to do ADR because it wasn't recorded well enough but Seymour Cassell hated the director and he was like fuck you I'm not coming back for ADR so they dubbed over his entire performance with somebody else's voice but in an American movie production it's very rare

yeah because I always thought that was her voice and I always wondered why she was in a bigger star because she's hot yes but it turns out I don't know what was wrong Does she, is her voice like Fran Drescher? I don't know. What is Devers Schultes? No, I watched an interview with her.

I thought it was totally normal. I watched a bunch of interviews with her connected to the anniversary of this movie. Helen Shaver, she was fine. Amazing voice. Yeah, great voice. But Helen Shaver, like, she's got the, I smoke two packs a day, you know,

which is very sultry. That's why I F.R. was like, hey, there. Hey, oh. Well, and then Melanie and Griffith, he casts her, and she becomes a massive star. Almost immediately, gold glove nomination, but, um, revived. her career.

De Palma said, I knew Melanie because we played Trivial Pursuit together. It was Steve Bauer and Melanie and a bunch of other actors. These were all actors that had come out of like cocaine anonymous. They're all being rehabilitated.

I got to know her quite well and she really wanted to play the part. We have a really good casting, whatever for this. But I don't know anyone else who's like Melanie Griffith, like this 80s version of Melanie Griffith. There's certainly been nobody

in the last 20 years like this. She's in a tradition. of a certain kind of movie star, like Judy Holiday, she was in the remake of Born Yesterday, or, you know, certainly Marilyn Monroe, or sort of like,

don't underestimate the intelligence of this beautiful blonde. You know, that's like a traditional holiday archetype seemingly did see, but not really. Anna Farris tried to pull this off, but couldn't pull it off.

She did in the Cameron Diaz, the Coppola movie. Right, Lost in Translation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she is in that tradition. Cameron Diaz is in that tradition, you know, like that,

it's like an archetype that kind of persists. she though has something a little bit different because she's like really naughty you know like there's something very yeah more so than Jamie Lee Curtis in trading places right like and Jamie Lee Curtis was rumored for this movie

and I think Melanie Griffith works so much better it needs to be ditsy but kind of street smart and ultimately like a little bit dirty yeah yeah yeah yeah you buy her as Hollybody in this movie oh yeah oh yeah you have bought her

on VHS Chris is literally bought her. On three quarter inch tape. Here's the palm on erotic thrillers. Are they dead? Was the question. I think so. I don't know what's going to change.

Something new will emerge. Maybe it'll have to come out of Europe. But I don't see it. As I said, I'm constantly looking for stuff to look at. It's in the hands of the writers and the showrunners who are being paid a lot of money by tech companies. This is not a good place for independent art to evolve.

It is funny that this guy could just basically be like, I love watching porn, and we're like, oh, God, what an otor. He's just like, you know, he's really putting in the work. And he's just like, I'm scouting Europe, trust me. Yeah. There's an emerging porn culture. Emerging erotic thriller industry out of Bulgaria.

The reason. It's like he found the Luca Donchage of erotic thrillers. You guys. He was on erotic thriller, NBA TV. Watch his Eurohoops. Also, at the time this movie was made, Columbia was owned by Coca-Cola, it's not as though, like, oh, the tech companies are holding him back in 2024. This was always true. He was always kind of pushing the envelope and trying to get stuff done that other people wouldn't want him to do.

It does tie to a question that has been being asked this year about nudity in films and how to approach sex when sex is so available on the internet. What was that movie you liked, Onora? Yes, the film that is most likely to win Best Picture this year, yeah. It has a ton of nudity in sex. I haven't seen yet. Yeah, it does. I mean, it's about a... How would you compare it to, like,

Bulgarian erotic thrillers coming out around now? It's a little more tame. Or Hollywood is Hollywood. Yeah, I mean, but that's a movie, though, about, like, the consequences of working in that environment. And this movie, I would not say is about that. This movie is not like,

here's the downside of being Hollybody. It does seem like it's trying to say something about the movie industry, though. For sure. One of the rewatchable scenes we'll get to is when Jake and Hollybody, they're finished getting a drink and they run into that actress.

Yeah. And they start talking about, oh, what's going on? What are you working on? And it feels like De Palma's trying to say something. Like these two worlds are not that far. Yeah, we're all hoars. Yeah.

Everyone who does this work as a whore, whether you're actually in a film where you're having sex or if you're just trying to get your next job, you're hoaring yourself all the time. And the ending, I think, is the other one where he's like... Yes.

Yeah. You think of gratuitous nudity? Okay, watch this. Yeah. For no reason now, I'm going to actually have a body double scene, and I'm going to shoot it perfectly, put blood on the boobs. It's one of the great kind of, like, tongue-in-cheek joke endings of a movie is just, like, everything that you were sort of, like, you know, getting so excited by it for the last two hours is just, like, a guy with a steel bar measuring how far this woman was from the camera. And it's like, it's, yeah, it's really behind the scenes. It's also an echo of the Angie Dickinson scene in Dress the Kill, which is like a shower.

scene that is kind of focusing on her. Well, you guys don't remember because you were probably not born yet, but I remember that that body double that was a big, there was like a people magazine feature about her. And I remember thinking like, and I hadn't even seen the movie, but I was like, wait. So they have, somebody's getting naked, but then somebody else is

the one getting, I'm like, I was like 10. Who is? There was a pretty famous one when we were growing up. Where it was like, that is in her real butt or something. God, I don't remember what movie was. There was one in the 90s. It was very memorable. but because I remember when Strip Dees came out

it was like, that's Dimmie Moore. Oh, yeah. Like, there are no body doubles in this movie. That is her dancing. You know, it's unmistakable. But a lot of the time, in those situations, you'd use a body double. Really fun.

I'll be 22 years in L.A. this month. And I've seen this movie a bunch of times, having never lived here, not knowing where anything was, but now that I'm here. Yes. It's one of the better, oh, oh, oh, that place. Hey, Farmer's Market. Yeah, he's going to a group, farmer's market.

The market. Yeah. Barney's being ready. Is the mall that she buys the underwear? That's a Rodeo one. My wife goes. Okay. She was all excited about that.

That was before she stormed off. This movie sucks. It's pretty different, though. You don't see L.A. captured this way on film anymore because you can't shoot movies here the same way. Right. It's much harder. Because we have a dumb mayor who won't give tax credits to have people shoot film and TV here so we can make more money. Absolutely.

That's why she got booed at Dodger's right. That's why she got booed. That's why. Like, how about this? Let's shoot movies and TV shows here. They should do whatever they have to do to make that happen. L.A. is a beautiful city. L.A. is a great city with a story tradition of shooting shit here.

Let's start making it happen again, dumbasses. It was really nice to see L.A., though. And so that house, which it's called the chemistry, I always thought it was on sunset, because there's a house on sunset going toward the palisades. That's up on stills. And I was like, oh, that's the body double house. And it's not. It turns out that's closer to like the valley.

It's near like Mahal. Okay. Yeah. Famous house. I said it was on sale. It was on sale like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something, eight years ago while I was living here. And it was expensive but not as expensive as you would imagine. Probably because it's not very functional.

Not a very efficient home to live in. Tough run for the kids with the 700 stairs stairs. Hold on. I have to get the freelo to come meet us. Yeah. And I remember talking to Eileen and saying like, is there any chance that you would consider living here just because I love body double and also I love the Hollywood Hills, I thought it would be a cool place to live. If I had it now with a three-year-old, I would be so fucked. So, fuck. You could never do it.

Could never do it. It's hard to decide whether it's the best house on stilts or if that still belongs to lethal weapon, too, to the one that Riggs pulls down. Good one. Or, uh, Neal. Don't leave me like this. Yeah. Neil. That house is on stilts? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Overlooking the ocean. That house was for sale, like a year ago. How did he get, I mean, I know how he got it. Rob Banks, but that was a great, great spot. Really nice. Yeah.

I was like, do you run a credit check or what? It's a great. That's a really good point. Yeah, this is, it's a very celebratory L.A. movie. Everything, all the stuff during the day, you're just like, oh, yeah. I thought they cheat a little. They go to Long Beach for the hotel scene. Oh, is that where that is?

Yeah. It makes it seem like that's in, like, Santa Monica or Venice or Malibu, but that's long beach. But even like the sun-baked, like, the auditions that he goes to, the backlots, like, all the, like, sort of all that stuff is really, really well rendered. Producer Craig, did you like the L.A. pieces of this movie? Wonderful, L.A., iconic L.A. movie. Okay. Well, I can't wait for your take at the end. I don't want to spoil it. One of the things that I like about the L.A.ness of it is that every set, every place he chooses to go is in some way artificial, which is, like, a big part of the idea of the movie is, like,

Like, Tale of the Pup is this, like, art deco, you know, sculpture of some kind. The Rodeo Mall is this, like, beautifully designed but completely fake, artificial space. And, like, those are the places he's most drawn to because that's, you know, that is what it's like living here. And then the movie often, like, we'll take flights of fancy where it's like, is this actually, I mean, it's happening, but, like, you know, it'll change the back projection or, you know. Well, there's that great opening moment where the set is being moved, the desert scene, and you think it's real and then it starts moving. and you're like everything here's fake. Yeah. Yes.

I mean, well, I have a good, unanswerable question for that. Where was the office for Linda Shaw Enterprises when you went into work? Was it a three days a week there?

That's out back in your shed now. That's right. It's in the ADU. When you're filming one day at a time. Karen Bass has encouraged us to zone up. You would crush as one of those guys in the hot tub with her. What was that guy's name? Sid Goldberg.

Sid Goldberg is doing incredible pod work. Sid Goldberg almost has the damn waiters locked out. When she's like, I'm an expressionist, he's like, I think you mean exhibitionist? Can't wait to talk about him. Ten million dollar budget made $8.8 million. Sad. But it's lived on. It bombed.

And even when he did the documentary, he talks about it. Like, it's just an abject failure. And I completely disagree. I love this movie. Well, it's beloved now, though. I mean, it has... But in 2015, he was making it seem like it failed. Like, I almost feel like once you feel like something failed,

nobody will ever convince you otherwise. That's it. Yeah, he's also, I mean, like, when you think about the generation of filmmakers that he came up with, like, the last third of his career is not as, as Harold did as Spielberg and Scorsesey. You know, it's not as... He hasn't had that, like, auto green light,

here's $200 million to make your dream project, Brian DePaul. And I don't think it's because he doesn't lack ideas. I think it's because his kinds of movies have really fallen out of fashion. I think he's also wildly uncompromising, doesn't play nice, talk straight. He's not, you know, Spielberg is, you know,

he's the real mayor of Los Angeles. You know, like De Palma is the opposite. He's dyspeptic. He's aggressive. He's very sure of himself. And his hits are intermittent. He's not consistent. But like, I don't know.

He made Mission Impossible. Sure. I mean, like let that guy make an action. Like, why he didn't make more action movies in the 2000s? I don't know. He was so good at them. It feels like as the years past, he started to grow in stature with, like, future generations.

And you can see, like, The late 90s guys that came up were definitely influenced by him. I think there's another generation coming. I think Soderberg, Fincher, Tarantino, those guys. There's so much boogie nights in this. They're pulling so much in his movies. Yeah. Roger Ebert.

This is honestly one of the greatest, greatest Ebert segments. Three and a half stars. We salute him. An exhilarating exercise in pure filmmaking. A thriller in the Hitchcock tradition. There's no particular point. except that the hero's flawed, weak, and terrible danger, and we identify with him completely.

Pauline Kale came in and was like, hold my beer. It's an awful disappointment. She was, like, completely betrayed by De Palma, who she was a big defender of it. I like when Pauline Kale is like, I hate this, but not for the reasons you think I do. That's always, like, my favorite.

This is a tough run for Pauline, and that 82 to 84 ran. She became... She's falling out of step a bit. Yeah, she was a generation removed, and super salty and... It's kind of her October Aaron Judge moment, you know? Yeah, that...

Missing a lot of high-insides. Yeah, you can get the cutter past her. Yeah. No, but she went and tried to make that movie, right? Yeah, Warm Beatty lured her to come out and make a movie and never... And it's like set her in a five-year tailspin. But it was like a trap. But she missed on some of these.

Yeah, but like they set her up to fail, too. And it was to kind of get back at her for being as kind of bare-knuckle that she was over the years. Ebert, though, Ebert hates a slasher, but he's so horny. So this is a real conundrum for it. And the horn dog wins out. Horndog defeats the slasher. It would be great if they had been done as Siskel and Ebert, where it was like Ebert and the Indian.

Cisco dressed up as that guy. Yeah, I'm surprised the drill scene. He's like pure cinema on the Indians like, I love it. Is Byron Mayo the Indian? Oh, God. Today is the most rewatchable scene brought to by Paramount Plus, where a mountain of movies awaits, a mountain of heart-pounding action,

blockbusters like Top Gun Maverick, Mission Impossible Fallout, and Gladiator. You guys saw Gladiator too. We did. Thanks for the invite. A mountain of jump scares with thrillers like, scream sick, smile,

and a quiet place day one. We also hung out with Denzel Washington afterwards, and he was like, where's Bill? Great. A mountain of fun for the kiddos, the family favorites, like, If Paw Patrol the movie, and Dora in the Lost City of Gold,

Discover something new Every single week on Paramount Plus Well, I have a bunch of rewatchable scenes Including Would you put Jake walking in on his girlfriend As a rewatchable scene? I would

The great Barbara Crampton Legend Barbara Crampton Her IMDB She's naked coming out of the gate In the first couple And then she settles down a little Salute her Yeah

Reanimator from beyond So this guy comes home, he's in a great mood in the kitchen. It's like a very well scouted out location. It's like your classic kind of long one floor. Middle class exists. This guy's carved out by himself by living at his girlfriend's apartment. Like mid-beverly

kind of location, probably second floor of a three-story thing. And he's in there. It's like, huh, here laughing and groaning. I wonder what's going on. But he's got a big smile on this space the whole time. I'm going to surprise my wife. I got onions on everything. She's not going to leave I'm home. I'm in Vampires' Kiss. Come on.

And then he's just walking down this long hallway, and it's like, ah, and he's like, ah, she's really having a great time in there doing something. That never occurs to him. Is it possible that he thinks that she's just masturbating? I thought he was like she's watching like Abbott and Costello or something. Because when you walk and she's laughing. She's laughing more normally.

And then it's like when she gets there. And the kill shot is her kind of be like, I'm going to finish. You know, like, can you hold on? Crucial point here. Well, also, she communicates pretty clearly like, it's over. Yeah. It's over between us. I'm sorry.

Kind of ripped off by Paul Thomas Anderson a little bit with boogie nets. Sure. Nina Hartley. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just the same exact, almost like the same angle. Yeah. Fortunately, Craig Watson did not put a gun in his mouth, you know, unlike little Bill.

That's right. Tough reaction for Jake. But kind of establishes this guy sucks. Yeah. This guy's just going to worm backwards out and then go to Barney's Beinery and... Lose his edge. Loses edge. Yeah.

Anyway. Never been to Barney's beanery. I have not been there at 1 p.m. drinking shots of Jack, I'll tell you that. Yeah. Next one, Jake's first time at the house sitting place where we get to see the house. Okay, so you're skipping over... What am I skipping? Tell me.

The method acting class. I want you to cry out. I can't. I'm a sardine. Sardine's in a cat or dead. They can't feel, they can't be afraid. Afraid. You're not a goddamn dead sardine.

Big soundache. Dry out. Okay. I don't love the acting teacher, but that's a good, that's an important scene, you're right. So it's an important scene that I don't like. Like, I don't think that scene works, but it's hugely important to the movie.

Yeah. Because Sam identifies him as this weakling. Yeah. Yes. This guy's trapped. Yes. The L.A., here's my house. I gotta take off for five weeks.

You just gotta water these plants. What is it? What? Sierra was dying for something like this to happen when you moved to 2011. Yeah, I thought I was gonna be a world. Yeah, Miles Tower's gotta take off for five weeks. You had this. You were in 10-10 Wilshire for like three months.

I was only there for the month, but we stayed the full month even after our apartment. I thought it was longer than a month. I think it was only a month, but it was like our apartment was like ready and our landlord was like, It's all set. You can move in.

And we were like, we're good. We're living in, like, a loft apartment above the 110. Did you say because you were peeping across the street? Yeah. It's like, she's got a telescope. And then we get the old, yeah, it's a great show here every night at 9 p.m. The neighbor just does the strip tease for no reason. Here?

Whoa. Whoa. Gets better. What's she doing? Keep watching. You'll see. I want to get a little closer. You bet.

Oh, she's a little out of focus. Yes. Yes. Yes. Hang on. She do this a lot? Like clockwork every night.

She just does a little dance. The 80s are so, fuck. That guy, he's not, he's not like, what? I would have so many questions I would like, wait a second. Yeah. 9 p.m.

is it like Monday through Thursday? Is it seven days a week? week. Does she stop to watch taxis? So what's going on? Who's the show for? Is it for you? Is it the same spot?

Like, where's her? I would have had 40 questions. He fortunately only begins explaining those things once Jake gets a look at what's going on. And you could have said anything to him in that moment and he would have accepted it. Because he's enraptured by what he's watching. Well, he's also like, I've gone from living on some guy's sofa at Hollywood Tower, another great L.A. location for the movie to living in this lap of luncheon.

which I guess must be the ongoing never-ending dream that you can go from nothing to everything overnight here. It's a cool setup. Circle bed, rotating circle bed, a telescope with a neighbor who masturbates at 9 o'clock every night. He's like, I'm good. I accept. So I just got to water these plants. I don't know. Where did you park in that place?

On the bottom of the street? I assume there was like a driveway at the bottom and then you get in the furniture. The finicular, yeah. I really thought the plants thing was going to come back. Yeah, it's Chekhov's, it's weird. It doesn't really ever do it. They really made a point of that. Don't let these plants die.

Yeah, I was like, oh, he's not going to water the plants. Something will happen. I think that's supposed to be to keep him home, like, have him come home some point after 6 p.m. every day so he waters the plants and he's like really taking it seriously. The other funny thing about it is that like his alcoholism or whatever is mentioned briefly in that Barney's beanery scene. But then the rest of the movie, he pretty much is just getting jet like to be sloshed. He's just drinking cores and watching porn.

Yeah. He's looking at his watch. It's like, it's 844, 16 minutes. Better drink a bottle of champagne and get into rotating bed. Time for the show. Fucking weird housewife across the way. This is a real, like, could not be made in 2024 movie in so many ways. No.

Because... You can't even explain it. Like, there's everything about it is like, what? The plotting is so stupid. Well, and then later when he's leaving and the Indian... like down kind of stalking and there's the tree

in the street and it's just like how did all of that stuff happen at the same time how did they know he was going to leave does he does does the Indian know

that Jake is going to be able to see him spying and how does he know that I do a lot of questions yeah well Jake starts trailing the dancing housewife is our next rewatchable scene

goes to the Rodeo collection indoor outdoor mall my wife is a huge fan of that mall. She wanted to be to mention that in the pod before she stormed off. He's the most obvious worst stalker slash follower, probably ever.

He doesn't even talking to the payphone. He just picks up, he's just like staring at her, like, while she's talking. It's actually like he should be probably thrown in jail. They try. They stop him. Yeah, they stop him. Pulse takes the panties out of the garbage can

in one point. Chris, what did you think of Pinotidagio score during this? Beautiful. Okay. Yeah. I know your big Pino fan. Well, I was going to say, I know that we have great shot Gordo coming up, and we have

rewatchable scene here. This is six sequence Stephen for Stephen Broom, the director of photography. Just all of the stuff of them at the payphone, going up the escalators, the cameras like roving around, finding one person going over to another. It's so great. Yeah, and like nothing's happening, and it's so much fun to watch. Every piece of it is like mesmerizing and literally nothing's happening. She's just walking around them all.

It feels very much like a continuation or a sequel to the museum sequence. And at the beginning of dress to kill, you know, where it's just like he's just trailing someone and you don't really totally know why, but you know something is wrong. Something is off. You can't figure out what it's going to be. And there's, so there's like tension but fascination. And like you said, Debra Shelton is like, she's like a, like, you had to imagine her. You know what I mean?

She's like so perfect looking that you're entranced by what you're watching, but it feels unreal. If she showed up at like your dinner party, you'd be like, what's going on? Yeah, exactly. Who looks like this? We also have claustrophobia in the elevator. That's right. Want to do your face?

The claustrophobia music's good, too. The... Yeah. There's too many people in the elevator. I'm in a coffin and I don't like it. We also get a really good creepy shot when she's trying on the underwear and he's getting a good look and he's like... looking around and like really peeking in.

He's such a creep in this. Yeah, it's the best is like you watch have this movie and then when the cop shows up he's just like, you're a gross little peeper, aren't you? Yeah. And as the viewer you're watching going, yeah, some solid points. Do you think De Palma is saying it's not that weird to do this?

I think he's saying we do it, it's just this guy is doing it 8% more. Like this guy can't help his obsession so he's stopping. You know, it's like you may see somebody beautiful at a shopping mall and they're like, oh, that person just walked by. He's like the extra 8%

of like, I'm going to watch her go into Victoria's Secret. See, I disagree. I think his thing is this guy's a creep and he's like, all of you want us to keep following this lady around and you're a creep just like this guy. You're also a creep because you're really enjoying this.

That's what I agree with you. He's like flipping it on the viewer, right? Yes, I think so. But ultimately when you get to the bottom of that, it's like if we're all creeps, no one is a creep. I think that's. That's what he's.

I think you're right. I think you're right. Perce snatch beach chasing. Long Beach. Some incredible movie running in this sequence. Realistic though. It's like if you were running, you'd get tired. Well, the hotel is really cool.

I like that. All of a sudden it feels like we're in like Italy. Yeah. Greece or something where it's like the decks. Each deck comes out further than the last one. Somehow he's able to just walk up and listen to her phone call. Not a lot of security there. She seems nonplussed by this guy who's now followed her.

all the way to wherever. She's just like, you've been following me all day. And then the creepy tunnel. Is this your great shot Gordo? My great shot Gordo is the diopter shot of the two of them at the Paveone. That was from the valet. Over this weird tunnel where it like ends back. Yeah.

Tunnel's cool. And more claustrophobia. Greg Henry starts touchdown celebration hitting him. He's like throwing the ball up in there. And then we get the 360 degree makeout scene, which is just ridiculous. That's when you're just like, am I having an aneurysm? Like, what's going on? Or is this real?

But just pure Hitchcock, though, where, like, you're in the middle of the Hitchcock movie and you're following the plot and you're like, okay, this is going along, trying to figure what's going on here? And then something happens, and you're like, what? Yeah. And it takes a minute for your brain to figure out if you're in a dream sequence or not. What's he trying to do with the things going in circles? Well, he does the same thing in blow out.

The camera angle. What is it about him in circles? It sweeps. It sweeps up the audience. How does the film real work? Yeah. The murder scene. Controversial.

People are like, it's phallic. He's like, it's a drill. I thought it would be cool. Yeah, he was like, I wanted the drill to be long enough to go through the floor. Legitimately on the list of greatest kills in movie history. And you never see the drill go in. No.

It's so, so fucking funny now that he has to plug it in and that he has to keep plugging the drill in. Yeah. Hold on. There's an outlet over here. Hold on the bed. But it's weird because,

his, like, it's just, this is an inexplicable plot thing. Why the, why he has the drill, why he's going to use the drill. He's up on, like, the other roof drilling, like, the satellite. But, like, he originally starts by strangling her with the cord, which is a callback to dial him for murder, which is, like, how the murder happens in that movie. So, if he was going to strangle her, why does he have the drill in that space in this elaborate setup that he's created to murder his life? It's like DePolma wants to just take Hitchcock and just make it super crazy. It's just totally, it's a great, like Hitchcock mixed tape. She doesn't run.

They both get knocked out basically in the bed, and then she just wakes up. She's like, I'm going to call 911 with my back to him. Yeah, but I'm out of breath. This would go great. I thought the drill was so he could, like, break into the safe in the house to be a purported robber. Right, but, like, there's that great bit about how drills like that. You can't break into metal. You can only drill wood with an auger bit like that.

You can't actually drill into metal. Like, a cop would know that in five seconds. You can't break into a safe with a drill that looks like that is stupid robber, but that's why you know that. Well, De Palma said the drill had to be long for the specific reason that it had to go through the floor and then be long enough going through the floor that it would drip one. I love the blood dripping and the white dog on top of him. Yeah. Great job by the dog. Yeah.

Like borderline Brandy Booth dog performance. Also incredibly pivotal in the two biggest scenes of the movie in glorious death and then in the second and last scene. That's right. Yeah. Uh, next one. The Sid Goldberg show. So Jake comes back home and he's like, I'm going to put in some porn. Uh, you're working on Linda Shaw Enterprises.

What are some of those enterprises? We have a film Deep Ghost, The Bating Game? The mating game. One night at a time? One night at a time, yes. And I believe you have a film opening up this week at the Pussy Flick Theater. Yeah. Yeah.

Deep Ghost is sick. That's really good. It's also so great because it's her and it's her nipple and stuff and then it finally pans out. And this guy is like this like half new dude. It's like he should not afford a heartburn store. Then he goes, what happens when you get hot? And she goes, oh, it makes me want to come. Well, why are you coming, Linda?

Why don't we watch this clip? That's just good podcasting. That's a great segue. It's a great throw. So Sid Goldberg's show, he throws to a trailer, which was a huge thing in the early 80s, mid-8. of Holly does Hollywood, which starts out with the guy coming in and going, five minutes, Miss Body,

and she thinks it's like, oh, it's time to do the scene. He's like, no, I mean, we have five minutes. It's fucking great. The problem is like, you can tell. He studied the porn in the 80s for months and months to get all this right. And then they have the trailer,

and it's got stuff like, Screw Magazine says, Holly Body, keeps his business where it belongs in the gutter. All the quotes are So good This whole scene is Unbelievable

Like to the moon Once it gets into the porn industry Like the video store The trailer Like everything about it The set, the casting You mentioned PTA But I mean

There's so much That is pulled out of this That is put into Buggy Nights It's outrageous This part especially With Sid Goldberg Who's played by an actor By the way

There wasn't actually A Sid Gouldberg But Linda Shaw was a real star. There's a couple of porn stars in this. Oh yeah.

Tackling all of them. Tackling them. Tackling them. Parare ranking. Next one is the relaxed porn video, which is just incredible. It was incredible in 1984.

So the first time you saw what did you think was happening? So this was the first time I'd ever seen somebody correctly take like an MTV video and put it in a movie

or a TV show in a way that it felt like MTV. And it was an even better version of it, right? And then Miami Vice started doing it. But this was right, it was like, this body double Miami Vice, like, we're the first two that were like, everything you like about MTV,

I'm not going to put into your movie. Yeah. It's such an interesting example of the way that De Palma's brain works. Because for a lot of people, if you were like, I want to put a band in my movie, you'd think that they would go, like, well, what kind of music do I like? What kind of energy do I want the song

to have for the sequence. But he's thinking specifically about like the visual filmmaking and so he watches MTV for like a year. Yeah. Not with the intention to be like, here's my musical taste, but just to be like,

what does a music video feel like? And how could I take my skills and make it even better? And make it into a porno. Right. And make it lord, and make it my stuff. And Frankie goes to Hollywood also

was, you know, very sexual as band. Sure. But nobody knew who the fuck they were until really 1984. So he also had the foresight of being like these guys, something's here. And that because this was, one of the biggest alternative songs

that 84. It's a massive song. The perfect song for the sequence. I have the Dracula, the Musical Award for Best Imitation of Real Art, which we rarely get to give out. Putting that here. Kid Cuddy Pursuit a Happiness Award. Best Needle Drop, no question. Sorry, Pino. If you're going to nitpick,

the scene is just too good for our 1984 porn. I mean, this would have been the great... This would have been the greatest, most elaborate porn scene ever film. It's so funny because it's like De Palma and PTA can't help themselves. No, they're just going on when they're doing it. It's like, why is there a Norma Desmond, you know, impersonator at the beginning of that music video sequence from Sunset Boulevard?

And then PTA steals the, yo, where's the cum shot? Yeah, I know. After, it was the same thing as Dirk Diggler's first Amber Wave scene. This whole scene is amazing. It's so strange, though. Like, it must, I'm curious to hear Chris. You can go to Craig now. Craig, what did you think when this porn video just dropped in the middle of the movie?

Because, like, you barely grew up with MTV. Yeah, not really. That's so. crazy. I didn't, well, like, while watching the movie, I was like, is this a dream sequence? I didn't quite know what was going on. And then you realize, oh, this is like him acting and, like, doing this whole other plot. I don't know, man, I find it to be incredibly entertaining. I think it's something that you don't see now. I loved it. I found it to be very, very compelling. Good answer. Compelling and rich. Just when you thought the movie couldn't get any better, now Jake is pretending to be a producer and has a

date with Holly where she says I do not do animal acts I do not do S&M or any variations that particular bet no water sports either I will not shave my pussy no fist fucking and absolutely no coming in my face I get $2,000 a day and I do not work without a contract

and it's like all of Hollywood was like slow clap slow clap and she delivers it like she's done it 5,000 times you know it's her spiel and he's like okay done and she like puts her gum on pretending to be a porn producer? Is it Scully or is it

George C Scott from Hartwell? Oh, George C. Scott. No question. No question. And do you think Schrader and De Palma were comparing notes? Fist bumps? Yeah. I think De Palma saw the Jim Jism scene. It was like, I got to take that

up a notch. They run into Kimberly Hess. You know, Simon LaFar is just casting his next picture. But that will be... You might want to firm up a little bit. What does that even mean? That woman is a porn star, right? I think that actress is a porn star,

which is why that's such a clever scene. Oh, I didn't. That wasn't in my research. Her name was Rebecca Stanley. Wait, the woman who's like, what are you working on? Yeah. Oh my God, that's so funny.

Wow. The Palma. He's great. He's fucking with people. And then, uh... Do you have a lot of physical media starring? No, but if people want to send it to me, I'm willing to receive it. 4K restoration.

Send it to CR's house. Yeah. And Jake blows it with Holly for some reason. Says he's not a producer. And then she storms out. That leads to the reservoir battle, which is another possible Great Shock Order Award for how they do the coffin.

This might be the most nitpicked moment of cinema history for me is just like everything about this. Like, I know you go along with it as the fantasy, but the last part is like, you're like, what is happening? Sam's whole plan, I just, I have no idea what's going on. Why did he dig a 30-foot grave at the crest of a reservoir? Right. It's like, that's going to erode at some point, right?

Same was just a terrible murder. Yeah. We'll get into that later in Nip picks. Which are your most rewatchable? I think it's probably the casting of him getting cast and then the Frankie goes to Hollywood scene. I think the scene I've rewatched the most is the Frankie Goes to Hollywood scene because it was the video as well. So you saw it all the time growing up. I think the follow is probably my favorite scene in the movie.

I like everything from when he sees the porn video all the way. through it to the first date, I think, is just elite. But I like this whole movie. It's really hard to pick. And that's it for today's most rewatchable scene. Brought to by Paramount Plus, from action blockbusters to throwers to favorite for the whole family. Find something new to watch every week. A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount Plus.

I don't think they have one day at a time or Deep Ghost. Plans start at $7.99 a month. Start streaming. Now, let's take a break. are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch.

Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying, every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater. This is a place where everything feels cinematic.

Like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore. Ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids invites you to find a rhythm all your own. Season after season. in Pure Michigan. Find your season at experience gr.com. What's the most 1984 thing about this movie? I would narrow it down to either putting a music video inside the movie or porn video stores that are like being like power records. Specifically the adult section of this video store. I also love that he goes up to the one clerk

who's like, yes, I do have that on multiple formats. Let me take you to it. Yeah, but he's kind of annoyed too. But he's like, I also have like the works of like Visconti over here, but I will take you to go get out of your body. Two Italian master references in his pod, yeah, digging in your back. You go, CR. Woods age the best. Young Melanie Griffith just looks great. She's been in our lives now for four decades, but it's really fun to see her in this and then something wild too. Same thing.

You're like, wow. Very similar characters. How much Craig Watson looks like Bill Maher crossed with. That has aged the best. That's aged very well. Barney's Beanery Fun that that's still kicking all these years later Linda Shaw

Finally getting her props It's about time The Hakeem Olajuwon of 80s porn Is that what is that Two titles? What are you implying there? Oh just You know

Incredible grace and length Hall of Famer, legend And not discussed this office Does a retired Linda Shaw Have like a big man school Like where she should Would she a two-way player? Oh, just you know

I feel like she should have been up there With the greats Who is her Patrick Ewing? Annette Haven, who we'll get to later in this movie. But I thought she should have been up there. Movies where someone walks in on their girlfriend riding a dude, what's the number one for this? I mean, old school is pretty high up there.

That's good one. It's really more of like a, that's really more of like a, you know. It's more of like a role play thing too, right? Has there ever been a movie where somebody just gets mad and just comes flying in going after the guy? No, actually. Everyone always backs up. Yeah. Nobody's ever like, I'm grabbing a bat.

There's a really famous example of this. I'm trying to remember what it is. Well, Sideways has the peeping on them doing it, but not, that's not a walk-in. Now, like, on your walking in, on your girlfriend, I can't remember what it is. There's a very, very, very famous example of this. This will be a good audience participation thing. Feel free to hit us. DM, Sean.

This is for CR for What Stage the Best. sober people falling off the wagon ordering multiple drinks from a horrified bartender and saying stuff like I thought you were a bartender, not a priest. So I guess those guys are friends but it is incredibly funny when Scully walks in and orders the shot

of Jack Daniels and Doug who's the like the bartender is just like I thought she stopped drinking. He's like, what's he doing at 1 p.m. then? What do you think? He's here for the tuna? Why does he play tennis then? Do you have any active friends who are bartenders? Who you like sit down and you're like, oh, it's Steve's here.

I'm not at this point in my life. Now you have a bar back home. Yeah. Take that out of the equation. I don't own the bar. I mean, I was just like a big patron. Right. A bar you go to that's where you have.

Bad brother. I go there all the time. But in L.A., is there a bar you can walk into and sit down and be like, old CR's back. The usual, C.R. Yo, CR! How's Liverpool doing? You want to have Margarita? That'll be $27.

Yeah. The My Neighbor is stripping music? in this. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. This is what was used in air, in air, right? Yes. It's that music. The palma did not like it.

I'm coming up later. What do you have for what's edge the best? The Peter Meter. What do you think that was that she did? Was it just that dance? Is there anything else on top of that? It's just so great that it was a routine. Yeah.

But what else is in the root? It can't just be that dance. I think that's her move. Okay. Just dancing? Yeah. Okay. Then she does the bend over

Back up Does this some more bend over again Roll over Definitely not I also really love when Sam is like I've had some creative differences With the Seattle repertoire

I'm like it's such a bullshit reason But yeah This is my two Vampires Kiss became an actual movie Nicholas Cage Apparently Apparently titled after this movie This fake movie

Brady's Analyst's American Psycho. This was Patrick Bateman's favorite movie. He talked about it over and over. He rented it 37 times on video cassette. Porn actress Holly Body took her stage name from this movie. One of your faves.

What a ripple effect. Big career for her. It's incredible. Dakota Johnson's mom is Melanie Griffith. That's a good one's age of best. She's made some kind of kinky movies. Melanie Griffith's mom is Tippy Hedron who starred in Hitchcock movies.

An incredible lineage. It honestly is. best. I mean, this movie as a standalone being a flop and then becoming literally one of the most influential movies of the 1980s, I think on a generation of filmmakers and on a generation of extremely horny dudes who don't have access to porn. Yeah. I also think just self-applying three and a half hours of makeup to become the Indian.

It must be really high. I would say the Indian is not aged well. Fortune 3 Clapboard for Most Giffable Moment. probably CR doing his imitation of Craig Watson and claustrophia. The Peter Meter routine is very good.

Great Jack Order Award recovered. So, Dan it thieves Benny Hahn Award for scene stealing location is obviously the house. It's called the Chemisphere, located just off Mahal and Drive in Hollywood Hills, once described by Encyclopedia Botanica

as the most modern home built in the world built in 1960 by architect John Lottner. I have no idea how much it's worth now. Seems like a pretty weird place to live. I thought it was on sale for like 1.5 in the 2010s. Did you see that the Elliot

Gould apartment from Long Goodbye was for sale? I did. But it's actually kind of beat up a little bit, right? This was a couple years ago. The best thing that's ever been for sale, and I have a lot of regrets, is the Boogie Nights House. Is that in Tarzana? No, it's further away, right? Inland Empire, kind of? It was going toward

where Zoe used to play soccer. Okay. I forget. I mean, you thought... 35 minutes. You seriously thought about it. Well, we thought about could we just, this is when we're on our own, could we just film Ringer videos from the Bougainites House?

And then we realized how stupid that was. I'm ready to shoot, Bill. It's in Covina. Covina, yeah, yeah. West Covina. The Butch's girlfriend Award, we click of the film. Sierra mentioned it earlier.

The reservoir ending is just ridiculous. Yeah. It's like they kind of ran out of time and they're like, did you come up with the ending yet? I didn't. It's when someone on set or the screenwriter or somebody,

needed to like grab BDP and just be like, hey man, like this is going to look cool, but makes no sense. Yeah. He says that the Location Scout found this spot and he was like, what do you think of this spot? And he was like, that's cool. I want to do something there. So they basically bend the movie around finding this reservoir. That's just cinema ahead of story.

That's kind of how he thinks. Yeah. And it also turns, that's where the movie sort of like detaches from reality because like Jake has the sort of weird dream sequence where he's telling off Rubin, but it has not yet been rehired. Then he like climbs out of a seemingly like bottomless grave that this guy has been digging.

But it's just a very strange moment. The white flash of the back light for a second there. But some of the staging, especially the dog breaking out of the car and jumping on Sam is like awesome. Yeah. Great little action sequence. Tough beat for the dog.

Yeah. I think it's the same dog. I think he said this from the Sam Fuller movie White Dog, which is about a racist dog, a dog that is trained to be racist. I don't know if you guys have seen that movie, white dog? The dog lives.

Oh, it does? In my mind, it does. Oh, yeah. It's a beautiful dog. I think Sam died, but the dog swam to safety. But the dog just swam off to freedom. Sam can't swim? What's the story there?

I don't know. Those reservoirs are tough. It's a lot of holes. What stage is the worst? Mentioned the acting class teacher. Calling the killer the Indian throughout the movie? Probably not getting away with that anymore.

Not enough cocaine for me. I needed somebody doing some bumps somewhere, maybe on the bar and a beanery bar. It's a very chaste porn environment where nobody seems to be high. The porn set. I just feel like cocaine is everywhere when they're filming this movie, and to pretend it wasn't was a weird choice. Linda Shaw seems a little disassociated during her scene.

Yeah, no question. And then Jake not having sex with Holly and just spilling the beans. Still don't understand that plan. Might have brought it up maybe during coffee the next day. Hey, you know what? Well, that's the whole point of his character, right? He's just a loser. Cockdaddy.

Yeah. What do you have anything? I wish I had a mug with me, but the way that Jake drinks coffee at the farmer's market is like this. He puts the backstage, like the theater guide down. He goes like this. Like he's just drinking soup? And it's just like, this guy needs to get cheated on more. Yeah.

Jake sucks. Like, it's so annoying. There should have been two guys in that bedroom. I think that for his, as idiosyncratic as it is, and with no disrespect to him, this Craig Watson's whole vibe is probably why this film is not as popular as it possibly could have been. Yeah. Because it's just like, that's a very difficult character to spend two hours with,

like his performance. It's part of it. I think there's also just like a surreal satirical tone. Yeah. It's pretty hard to wrap your head around if you don't already want to be like, look at naked Melanie Griffith or whatever other draws the movie might have. The other thing that's age of worse is just Sam's

conspiracy slash plan. Like what was he? He seems like he did the most complicated version of killing your wife. I have a lot of nipicks for this later. I think also what's age of worst is dating this movie to come out the same day as The Terminator. Is that true?

And a significant actor in that movie passed on this movie reportedly to do the Terminator. Yeah, yeah. Ruffalo Hannah Rubenick. October 26, 1984. Roughlo, Hanna Rubenick Partridge

Overacting Award. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady! I come in here, I give these things to you. Give me all you got!

Give me all you got! I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart. Fuck you. I'm going with the police detective who gives Jake shit after the murder. So you're supposed to tell me, like, what is that guy?

Come on, Scully, tell the truth. You fucked her and you kept them for a souvenir. No. No what? No you didn't fuck her. No you didn't keep him as a souvenir. No to both of them. Or maybe you're just a harmless panty sniffer.

Is that it? Oh, you got a dirty mind. That's a laugh. You peeper on her, you follow her, you fuck her, you keep her little panties as a memento, and then you take a seat on a 50-yard line and watch her being fought. You're questioning.

That's not what happened. I tried to save her. What performance is that? Doesn't it seem, though, like he is a cop in a Hitchcock movie in the 60s? Yeah, for 1942. You're a peeper. In my book, that's a perfect and a sex offender. It's like, okay, thanks for the definition.

It's just a weird scene. When he calls him later, it's so funny because the guy is just like, oh, yeah, Scully, what's that? And, like, he just tells him the whole plot of, like, it's so weird. I almost would have had rather had, like, Leslie Nielsen as the cop and just had somebody who was kind of, like, secretly funny. Was there a better title for this movie? No way.

The CR thinks Luke. Wilson could have been Harrison Ford Hottest Take Award. What do you have CR? I think if I'm Jake after my first two days in the porn industry, I just stay. I just think that that's

like the growth industry for him. He's already doing on camera feature work in pornography after one audition. Like he could have been the Harrison Ford of 80s porn. Got it had to work on the cum shots. Yeah. He may have to work on the

com shots. But I thought that... Pulling out, aiming, just a lot of stuff that... It's an art form. Yeah. And if he has to do a come shot in any kind of tight space,

who knows how the claustrophobia kicks him, but I thought he seemed like a natural and he should have stuck with it. And now he's got the chemistry to shoot in. Yeah, right. Exactly. All-time porn set. Yeah.

Very true. My hottest take is confirmation that I will never be running for a public office, but I think we should be having unsimulated sex in movies. In movies. Like, I really think if the actors want to do that,

that's going to make the movie more interesting. It's weird that that's still like the final frontier. It is the last thing you can't do. Yeah. A couple like really... Like, the Terrifier 3 can happen. Which is way crazier in terms of what is portrayed. Well, think about the Chloe 7 piece of this.

The Brown Bunny. Yeah. I mean, they have like basically ruined her career for a couple of years. She's back. She's okay. But that was also 20 plus years ago. But that was considered the most transgressive thing that a famous person could do in a movie pretty much ever.

There's the rumors, you know, about like Don't Look Now, for example, that Donald Southerland and Julie Christie were having sex in that scene and unconfirmed. And there have been some suggestions over the years that there are some scenes where the actors are having sex. I'm sure that's true. They said that with Alk Baldwin and Kim Basinger. Didn't we do a real after a war where we were basically like... Teen Wolf. Yeah. They said Michael J. Fox with the Wolf costume on.

Yeah. The actresses was like, I got to get in on that. Yeah. Was unsimulated. But did he have a wolf cock? Unsimulated. Holy shit, fellow. I'm with you on this.

It is the last frontier. My hottest take, it's mild. I think this is the best integration of the porn world until a mainstream movie ever. Just how they do it, it's not the whole movie, we just dip into this for 15 minutes

and every beat of it is absolutely perfect including Sid Goldberg and that whole show. Yeah, I mean, it's like he has mastered that idiom. It's so good. It's a whole separate movie in the movie, which are sometimes my favorite movies where it's like this,

we're in this whole world for 15 minutes. I'm like, let's go, let's go into this world. This is cool. Boogie Nights. Bouging Nights. Hardcore. Hardcore. Zach and Miriam make a porno.

Wonderland, right? Wonderland. Eight millimeter. A millimeter. Orgasmo. The Trey Parker Matt Stone movie. What are some other movies that are set in the world of porn?

There's more. Zach and whatever We did that. Yeah, that one was awful. Yeah, Kevin Smith. There's really not that many. There's a couple more that I'm forgetting. People versus Larry Flint. Sure.

It's kind of like that. Yeah. Casting what ifs. De Palma thought about there's been a lot of conflicting research about this, but he thought about a very famous porn star name Manette Haven to play

Holly Body and met her. spent a lot of times there, gave her stuff to read. Spent a lot of times with her. He said she'd never been given lines. I sort of sent her her her acting school. I videotaped her doing long interviews.

Some of the things she said were put in a holly body's dialogue. I ultimately tested her, and the only other girl I wanted to play the part was Melanie Griffith. Melanie blew out of the sky. Then the palma says, strangely enough, Annette wasn't that sexy, but I used Annette to give us advice

while we were shooting in the film. Net Haven also a huge influence on boogie nights and appears in boogie nights. It seems like the directors loved her, and then when they met her, they were like, eh. I get the impression she was just very smart and a great communicator. Very smart and kind of low energy, which for a movie like this, you needed, one of the great things about Holly Bada is she's so funny and quirky. Sure, yeah.

So he then offered the role to Linda Hamilton who turned it down and did Terminator instead. What a fucking, what if that is? Crazy sliding door. Crazy one. Could Melanie Griffith have been in The Terminator? Jesus. Wow. Probably not, but maybe

But yeah, like, it's like, I don't think I would have thought of Linda Hamilton as like as Sarah Connor before that. Exactly, and you think of, when you hear Sarah Connor, you think of T2 and when she's all jacked, but she's not like that in the first terminator. She's like a waitress or something, yeah.

It's a good sliding doors for Linda Hamilton's career because if she's in this movie first, I don't know what happens after that. She might go away. Yeah. They... I think it all played out correctly. The Jamie Lee Curtis story,

is like that he basically asked Melanie Griffith to introduce him to Jamie Lee Curtis Jamie Lee Curtis says no and Melanie Griffith is like well why don't you just let me read for it right there's yeah there's her Carrie Fisher Tatum O'Neill were like considered

but who knows as we know the casting wood ifs as the years pass they just start throwing names everybody in this town was interesting Dylan Lane looked at it like you just never know it carry Fisher has a very different energy for Melanie Griffith but she does have have the holly body attitude you know

like smart cynical yeah you know that would have been interesting it's actually kind of the role she should have done after the three star wars movies something to break the archetype but you almost like that she had done that if like she is she ever in another in the sequel star wars movies

I think the sequels were done though no I mean the ones that just that she did if she sullies her reputation I don't know she she made some weird movies after Star Wars because I think I think she should have made movies like this. I think she was a way more interesting actress than the thing she picked.

Totally agree. Totally agree. De Palma really wanted Sylvia Christel for the role of Gloria Ravel, who played a manual in all those movies. It was a pretty big softcore porn actress. Speaking of European erotic thrillers, unavailable. And then speaking to her in the Golling Globus documentary, which I

watched for over the top. Was loving you and Kyle praising that doc. I love that doc. But they have a whole Sylvia Christel section about how she had like a drinking problem and was like messed up on the set. I don't know if that would work for Gloria. And then they,

Helen Shaver's dubbing the lines for Deborah Shelton, as we discussed. Real live porn actions in the movie. The great Linda Shaw, Alexandra Day, Carol Lott, Melissa Scott,

Barbara Peckinpaw, and Annette Haven. And then Stephen Bauer is a cameo as a male porn actor. Also, in the big scene. Isn't Michael Kearns? The guy who's like,

I'm not just a stuntcock? Yeah. That guy's actually a porn actor. too. Yeah. He's your favorite porn actor. Yeah. Hey, we never get to give this one out either. The Clint Howard Award for the director loves this guy.

Dennis Franz of De Palma, five straight films together. What about Greg Henry? Greg Henry, first of five with the Palma. I was thinking if I was a famous director, I would 100% do this. I would have like my five or six. Got to have your guys. Yeah. Yeah.

My guys, my ladies. It would be like, oh, yeah. Chino, De Niro, and then Joe House. So many of my favorite directors do this You know, Preston Sturgis does this Or you have your troop You have your four or five people Who know how to your stuff

Yeah PTA's kind of done this Absolutely Scorsese has guys And he goes back to over and over again Yeah Best that guy award Is Greg Henry

That guy or is you Greg Henry? I think that at this point He's probably In this movie If you're a De Palma fan He's Greg fucking Henry I think he's Greg Henry If you don't know

De Palma movies You're like That's the guy From the thing That I can't So What do you think it is about him that De Palma is so attracted to.

That he looks like John Tesh. I think he's... He's like... You're cooking today. He almost always plays a very untrustworthy guy. Yeah. You know, a guy who's like really kind of slimy. And I think De Palman needs those guys in his movies.

He was the kind of guy when I was growing up would have been the guy on Charlie's Angels who got involved with Cheryl Ladd in the first half hour, but then it turned out he was the bad guy. Like he had the... There was just specific guy. who just got pigeonholed those guys. My vote for Best That Guy is Larry Flash Jenkins

who was in season 3 of the White Shadow. He was in Fletch as the guy with George Went who was involved in the drug scheme. He's the guy. He's on the beach.

Yeah. He's just in a lot of these movies and he plays Dennis Franz as like assistant director or key grip. Dionne Waiter's Award. I mean, Barbara Crampton is another one.

That's who I have. Crampton's look like just kills Scully. But she's not of that guy. No, for Deon. For Deon. Let me give you all the nominees.

Dennis Franz eligible. Okay. Frankie from Frankie goes to Hollywood. Yeah. Linda Shaw. The body double in the end credits. Or my choice for winner,

porn video host, Sid Goldberg. Goldberg's a good shout. I like Goldberg. I did not know that man's name. You made it sound like he was like a legend in the industry. I had never heard it. I did not make it sound like that. You're like, that's Sid Goldberg.

I have the box set And I believe you have a film opening this week At the Pussy Flick Theater Sid Goldberg If they're deleted seeds of Sid Goldberg Send them my way please Can you imagine me like Hey can I get you a coffee

It's like Shh Goldberg's on I gotta find out what's opening at the pussy flick They used to have Remember I told you guys about WHT That was like the HBO And how there were movies that were on and they would be first-run movies. They used to have, at 11 o'clock, they used to have a porn talk show hosted by, I think it was Gloria Leonard, maybe was her name.

Okay. And she would just have guests on and they would have, it was basically like Johnny Carson with porn. And the people would come on and they would talk about their movie. They would play a clip, which was like heavily edited because they weren't allowed to show actual porn. But it was, I think that's what they were ripping off with these. Yeah, there was a, there was a, there was a, a,

Public Access show like this in New York. There's another one, yeah. With a blonde porn actress who affected a kind of like Carson of porn. I can't remember her name, but it was also a call-in show. Oh, so you could be like, hey. Yeah, and she would take calls like that. She's a young island. I can't remember her name, but she's a legend, too.

Well, then Playboy Channel said night calls, which is the 90s version of that. Recasting Couch Director City. What about Kathleen Turner's Gloria? Perfect time in his career. You don't have to dub her voice. The camera could just watch her walking around. Would have worked well. I guess there's the body heat kind of tie-in, which is maybe...

No, but she's like, man with two brains, romance in the stones. I was going to say romancing the stone is like this year, right? Do you think that if you had, like, whatever happened with this actress, like, do you think if you had a different actress, like, this character would have more to do and have more to say? No. I think she just seems to look beautiful, which she does. But then you need the voice, which obviously shouldn't have. Tony Romo or Chris Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary. I got for Doris.

Okay. I see you, Mr. Scully, or should I say, Mr. Cuck? Coming off your nightmare season of acute panic attacks and finding your girlfriend, Carol Ryan, another man. You've put in the work. You peeped on a woman stole her underwear and watched her get murdered by her own husband, dressed as a deplore native American. Now you're here on the set of a holly body porno Being escorted to a fuck session by 80s new romantic legends

Frankie goes to Hollywood Salute to you Jake And what do you think, Richard Jefferson? I'm I'm running Ruko back Can a 40 inch electric drill completely obliterate Glory Revelle's torso

You bet! I texted with Ruko, by the way. He's fired up. Did you tell you... Rucco texts to me. He's like, this is great. This is a huge win for Ruko. Yeah, we found out about this yet.

I was like, we need you bet to get to where bang is. Light pole. Got it! Some of your best work. Half-assered at research. L.A. locations, tail of the pup. Beverly Center? Was the Beverly Center in this or just the parking part of Beverly Center?

I don't know. I don't remember seeing. the Beverly Center. I don't know. It's allegedly in the Barney's Bainery, Farmer's Market, Rodeo Collection, Hollywood Tower. Crossroads is there? It's there? In the chemistry. Is that actually tower?

It doesn't look like the tower to me. It just looks like a video store exterior. I think there were a couple tower records out here, though. Okay. Yeah. I would probably go with the Kemosphere. As the most L.A. location. The set for the Frankie Goes to Hollywood sequence was used the next year for the NACCorp. scene in Fright Night. I just watched it yesterday. That's so funny.

That scene is amazing too. I love Fright Night. That's a rewatchable to me. That's such a great movie. I actually like the remake of that too. They're both good. Some of the artsy-fartsy writing about this movie said how voyeurism provides an illusory imaginative form of control which Jake had lost because he was emasculated and cucked.

Now you have to watch to gain your control back. Did they use the word cucked in that piece of literary criticism? No, that was Dorisberg. There was Doris did that. Jake's car, 1967, Chevrolet, Camero, R.S. convertible. Were you ever a jump into the car guy? No. Have you ever tried that?

No, it's super dangerous. I wish I could do it. I don't have a convertible right now, but forever. You should just jump into a stranger's convertible. Some guy going back from the Dodgers parade. I'm just joking. De Palma is upset that there's a rumor about that he had women coming up to his house for months and months, masturbating for him as he tried to find Holly Body.

That was a persistent rumor after the film. How did he express his disappointment? He said, this rumor went on for decades. It was ridiculous. The only girl who really came up to my house was Annette. Net, when we worked on the material together. And Melanie, who worked with Annette to work on the masturbating at the window routine that I basically worked. on in my house on the hill. It's just work.

I would go outside with a camera and let Melanie just go through her routine that Annette has taught her. This rumor went on for decades. It's a rumor that never dies. I'm still not rolling out. Maybe three, four more people went up there.

Who knows? It's a great way to get an interesting reputation to be like, God, this rumor's been following me around. Women want to come up to my apartment and mastermind. It's like Yonis being like, why do you guys I think I want to be traded. Yeah. To Miami.

Stop bringing it up. Yeah. Definitely not to Miami. What's wrong with Houston? Not that I'd want to go there. Why do you guys keep reporting? I don't like damed. The videotape of Melanie and Griffith's bedroom jewelry, masturbation, test audition was destroyed

at her request because the palm had kept it. She's like, hey, can you get rid of that now? Or so she thinks when we discovered in the CR archives. Here it is. Apex Mountain. Craig Watson, death of fucking Oh my God, yeah. This is like

first line of his obituary. Yeah. His grandkids are like, Grandpa, you were in body double with Brian DePalma? Yeah. He's 70 years old. Is he still acting?

Apparently he's a big audiobook narrator. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Maybe we'll have to work with him. Good pivot.

Melanie Griffith, they pecks mountain. I'm going to say working girl. I agree. De Palma, no. That's probably Scarface. It's in the blowout to Scarface, right? Untouchables, maybe.

I feel like Scarface was a bigger movie. Was it? I thought so. Fuck the fuck the fucking Diaz brothers. Cary too is obviously huge. Fuck the fucking Diaz brothers. I think it's got to be Scarface because it gets him the three-picture deal

that lets him make body double. That's good. When we do Scarface, that's when the feed is over. Used to be boogie night. What do you mean? No, I'm just saying I used to say it's boogie nuts Now it's Scarface

Yeah Because we're gonna method pod The Scarface will be That'll be seven hours Giant mountain of cocaine Right here on the table Huge cocaine right there But we'll be like Brian DePaul

would be like I'm not on cocaine I'm just interested in these worlds Only one person masturbated for me Stop putting the rumor out That I'm podcasting While I on cocaine 80s

80s Porn and movies definitely. Greg Henry? What is it for him? I think it's this. This is the most critical role he's had in a movie. Frankie Goes to Hollywood, definitely.

I mean, this is their songs coming out. I think they're pretty big. But this movie, they're on SNL, like the start of the next season, the album's out. It's somewhere in 84. This is it. Their song, The Power of Love, just played a big part in that movie, All of Us Strangers last year. And it was the first time I'd heard of Frankie Goes Hollywood song that wasn't relaxed in like 20 years.

I remember that Just putting that out there Have you seen all of us strangers? Who's in that one? Paul Meskell Andrew Scott I have a really good bit about that movie that I'll share with you off mic

Save it for the Scarface Pod Yeah I almost did for my hottest take that Frankie goes to Hollywood and Queen were a lot closer than people want to admit in terms of the qualities or popularity

in terms of the ceiling of how good they were I was workshopping and I couldn't quite get there Is that complimentary to Frankie goes to Hollywood or derogatory about Queen? It's the latter. Well, just that I think Relax is as good as

any Queen song. I'm not a huge fan of either, but I think that there are some queens. I think Queen is incredible, so I don't know what I was talking about. That's why I didn't do it. That's why I worked shopped it and decided not to go with it. Yeah. There's some, I mean, now, cocaine is something that they have in

comment. I think there was a lot of cocaine involved there. I was listening to like a late period queen album the other day, and you could hear the cocaine in France. Mercury's throat. Like, it's crazy. Telescopes in a movie? Yeah, telescopes rotating beds?

Rotating beds is a good one. Jeez. Cheesy acting class scenes? Barry? Yeah. Austin Powers rotating bed? Good one. Oh, yeah.

Body double scenes that are outgoing about how it's a body double scene. Yes. Outgoing? What does she say? Like, my breasts are very down. She also looks different than the, like her skin color is different than the other girl too. I feel like that's part of the joke, right? Crazy cool L.A. houses used as a character in a movie.

What's been better than this? I think he eats better. Greenberg? Greenberg? Who can't see Greenberg? What do you mean? Talking about. Who the fuck seen Greenberg?

It came and went in five minutes. That's a, that's a liked movie. What do you mean? Greenberg. Greenberg heads visit Bill Simmons Are they good houses? No, the house that he stays in He's like house sitting

That's the whole premise of Greenberg Cruiser Hanks We're thinking Hanks Fuck guys Wait No I Greenberg No Bomb Back movie

Ben Stiller It's fine Cruiser Hanks It's Hanks Both One is the Indian One is Jake Who plays who

Oh a Thai Yeah So Hanks plays Sam Bouchard slash the Indian. Yeah. Or, I could see Cruz being like... Oh, sorry, Cruz plays it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think Cruz has to be Sam in the Indian. Because you could see Cruz being like, hey, small world, small town. We keep popping up at these auditions together, you know? Yeah. The like slick, smarmy thing. That's pretty interesting.

Hank's is definitely the Craig Wasson. Yeah, I think he would have done that. I agree. So who wins that one then, Craig? Hank's, right? Hank is the lead? Yeah. Racehorse, rock band,

wrestler, fantasy, team name. Holly Des Hollywood is a Racehorse? I don't know. Water sports. Water sports. We'll take one more break and then we've got to pick a lot of Nets.

This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's, you can get great deals all day with McValue. Jumpstart your day with the under $3 menu featuring a sausage McMuffin for just $1.50. Or grab the perfect lunch with the McDouble for just $250.

Honestly, nothing pairs with a movie marathon like a McDouble. in hand. Get even more value with McValue, only at McDonald's. Bada, blah, blah, blah. Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. This episode is brought to by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, It earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2%ter. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. Pickinets. Jake is so dumb that he can't figure out his girlfriend's fucking another guy in her room for 75 seconds. But yet he can piece together this elaborate murder pot. I just want to start there. Yeah, I mean, that whole whole.

opening sequence where Jake should at least be picking up on the vibes that he might not be asked back to the set after ruined the shot. And yet he's like, I think I'll just get hot dogs and just go back to my cool girlfriend. It's like, Carolyn Jake. It's tough when your character is a total

dipshit because then like any of the plot holes, you're like, oh well, he's a loser. Right. But then he somehow figures it out in five seconds. What do you have? Because I have a lot of nipics. I mean, the biggest one is just like is Sam's plan and just how a It requires tons of makeup, multiple cars.

Multiple, like, he has the one house that glory is living, and then he has the synosphere or whatever, the round house that he's also able to work out of. So it's just like, it just seems there was a much straighter line to killing your wife. I wrote, St. Bouchard, rich guy pretending he's an actor to set up a murder. Should I start doing this?

Should I just start going to acting class? Yeah, looking for my prey. Yeah, that's right. And I'll get makeup. You really, you lifted the veil there. That was good. I think there's like, you could break down each step, though, because so he wants to have a witness. So he wants someone to see him kill his wife.

But think it's somebody else. It has to be a good enough costume that they think it's someone else. This is one of the dumbest ideas. I've ever heard of. He is going to be witnessed, killing someone. And the first time you see him as the Indian, you're like, that's Greg Henry. Yeah, exactly. The minute you see him, you're like, that's clearly the guy we just saw.

So even in the, like, unreality of the movie, it's the dumbest plan of all time. Yeah. He would have been better off telling his wife that he also in the chemistry, telling her to come up for a drink and then just shoving her down the stairs and be like, she fell. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So Alan, he was saying how Alan, the cool house owner, who's letting Sam House sit there, but he had to leave for five weeks, and he had to find somebody he's leaving tomorrow. So if he didn't find anyone, like, nobody's watering the plants. The whole premise of the, like, they go to Barney's. Is he, like, waiting for, for, I guess he already knows Jake's looking for a place because he hears him in the first audition being like, oh, you got anything right away.

How about this? Was he the one fucking his girlfriend? I wondered about that for a second, but probably not. Yeah. Where is Gloria when Holly Body is just dancing in her living room every night? I don't know. Bedroom at night? Shopping for underwear?

I have no idea. Great question. Maybe she's at the beach house. Could you figure out how to have somebody in your bedroom at 9 p.m. every night? Be like, Eileen, could you go in the TV room from 9 to 930? Well, it's just also like, yeah, yeah. It's absurd. Yeah.

And she's there the next morning. Yeah. So where the fuck was she at 9 o'clock? That's a good point. Well, maybe she has a social life. Who's Gloria call? Like, from the pay phone when she's like, I have to see you.

He hit me again. Like, who's she talking to? Presumably someone she's having an affair with, which is maybe one of the reasons why he's killing her. Yeah. Need a little more details on that. Jake kept Gloria's underpants in his pocket

for 10 hours if he went home. He kept him in there. I mean, basically wears one outfit for the entire movie. He does. He's dressed like a substitute teacher. Yeah, he is. So Alexander Ravel's scheme of killing his wife Pretending someone else did it

But also pretending to be Sam Bouchard The barely working actor Wouldn't they have written about this in a newspaper? Yeah Wouldn't there have been a picture of her and her husband And wouldn't anybody have been like That's the guy from our acting classes When Jake have maybe seen his picture

Like wasn't there a risk of Jake seeing the picture of the husband? Yeah Yes All right This is a big one Is getting into porn in 1984 Was it really that easy You just get to be the lead actor

And a Hollybody movie One second Yeah it's like you just walk into an audition And even in hardcore Like Jim Jism had to Kind of work for Yeah He put in the hours

He was in the minor leagues for a while I'm gonna go the other way I think that you could do it You just walk in But they're making so much porn back then If you have the tools necessary Well, because he's got a familiarity with the audition process, how to call a production office probably, right?

So he's got a little bit of a foot inside the door, and maybe there's a lot of intimidation out there. Maybe people weren't like, oh, yeah, I could just step right into this. I think if you're equipped, yeah, properly. Well, this is a huge unanswerable question, was Jake packing? I mean, everything about him. The first 10 minutes. Everything about him tells us no. And yet, he feels very comfortable in this environment.

Yeah. Yeah. How was Sam's makeup as the Indian this good? Or was it? Who's applying it? They said to do the makeup. It's like a paper machet head. They said to do Greg Henry's makeup.

It took three and a half hours every day. This guy's just fucking whipping it on. He's like, I'm the Indian now. Here's my power drill. De Palma is such a freak. This is such a stupid story. This movie is so amazing. Why did Sam pick Holly Body as the dancer who was,

was a big porn star. Probably the most famous porn star at the time. Why not pick like some girl at cheetahs? Porn star number four. I think it's because of her remarkable resemblance to his wife. Isn't that part of it? I mean, you know, I forgot to mention. Physically, yes.

Rewatchable scene. The most rewatchable scene is the first time you see her dancing. Yeah. To say, is that Deborah Shelton or is that Melanie Griffith. Right. Any of their nitpicks? No. Why does Sam keep bringing that dog?

with him everywhere. He was a huge dog fan. Just leave that dog at home. I know. What are you doing? Love dogs. Led to your demise. Yeah.

He thought he had it though with kill. He's like, kill. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. I'm all in on prestige TV as a remake. Oh, interesting. I think it would be really good. Oh, interesting. I'm putting it in 2025 in like the fucking only fans era.

Yeah, that's great. I think I would like to have the sequel of, of Holly. and Jake, you know, branching into pornography. Like, opening as a couple. Opening Holly Body Productions? Yeah. Oh, interesting. You know, and he's cosplaying as the producer,

but also, like, at home is, like, this normal self-effacing guy. I love it. He gets, they hired Tracy Lords, and there's like, this new actress, Tracy. Yeah. She has all her ID. It's great. And then Tracy Lords brings down Holly Body Productions and Jake. It's a good idea.

Yeah. Should pursue that. De Palma. Get that. Palma's still working. Not really, but, you know, I. I wish he was. Prestige TV, I think, would be really good.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Traos, Sam Jackson, Nell, J.T. Walsh, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Evil Lafey, Ramon, Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall? What do you got to do? I definitely think it's just Byron Mayo, and I can't even decide what scene Byron who was talking. He's Sid Goldberg. Yeah, he's basically Sid. He's in the hot tub with them.

He's just like, what's next at the pussy flick. Oh, God. Are you sure? Nell shouldn't be Hollybody? Oh my God. Doing the dance. You're like, do you think

would long legs have been a good AD on the porn set? There's no cum shots. We have. Oh, man. I can't look at you guys. What's from? Just want to ask her who gets it.

It has to be Melanie Griffith. Best Supporting Actress? I had Steven Age Broome, but sure, yeah. Okay. Oh, that's good. What about Brian De Palma? No, yeah. Who's he competing against in 84?

It's like out of Africa? I think it is. I think that's what it is. Shit, Sidney Pollock. Yeah, I mean, out of Africa versus body double, it's body double 100 times out of 100. It's not even close. Where do you guys stand on the killing fields?

I'm pretty into it. I like it. It's a really weird pivot in this conversation. Well, it's also 84. I think that was nominated there too. That's Roland Jaffe. I really like that movie. Probably in answerable questions.

What would have happened if Tracy Lords accidentally ended up in this movie? Because they had to destroy all the movies she was in. They were casting from around the porn world. Was she making movies in 84? I think that's when it started. She easily could have been like one of the people, what would they have done at that point? Would all the body double cassettes have been pulled? I wonder if the controls around this stuff were more intense because it was a Hollywood production.

Yeah, maybe. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. You know, I don't know, but I assume, especially because the studio was like, there's no way you're casting in Ed Haven, for example. I have no idea why the rumor that Tracy Lords was in this movie came about. I looked at all or ID. It's a really fascinating question, though, about what would have happened to it? Yeah.

I was wondered what would have happened if she had been just in a movie, how they would have handled that. Oh, like, even if she was just, like, in 48 hours or something? not having sex, maybe that's... I think that's been the issue. I mean, she goes on to be in movies. But if she was in the porn scene in that one, they would have had to, like, get rid of the scene. Yeah.

She's in a John Waters movie, like, three years later. What's the worst position to walk in on your girlfriend fucking another guy in a movie? The worst position that she's in? Yeah. Because they usually have the girl on top when they do this. But I think doggy style would be the most humiliating. I honestly...

It's so unprofessional. Baird for that. So Goldberg, huh? I just worked so hard in my career, you know? Well, everyone I was going to say a position. I'm just trying to do the other choices. Yeah, definitely.

We can move on. You think you're right, Bill. Is it possible... Is it possible Jake? Is it possible you imagine this whole movie? I think it would be for me It would be doggy style

But getting fucked by long ways Oh my God Is this your boyfriend? He is short Is it possible Jake imagined this whole movie Yeah I think so

It's possible It's happening like in his In his cloverprivosis Because he has his job back at the end Yeah Gets his job back like twice weirdly Yeah And doesn't it

feel that's a reality of the whole movie doesn't that feel like when you're in a dream and you're like this is really happening this is really happening then you wake up and you're like of course that wasn't happening why was I in this sort of real experience that actually you can't make real because the tip-ops would be the 360

degree kiss in the beach just that whole scene is just ridiculous and the ending but like I mean what's the reservoir is ridiculous you think about the acting teaching scene when he's just like you shouldn't be fucking with his head like what gives you the right to be fucking with his head What if he fucked Jake up by, like, taking him back to this memory of, like,

him not being able to scream out, and it's basically a projection. Yeah, I always read it as it starts at the very first scene when he's having the claustrophobia while he's shooting the movie. But I don't know. It would be funny if De Palma gave some DePama interview, and he's like, I can't believe people thought, like, he didn't imagine the whole movie. Of course he did. Watch the first scene.

He never did say anything like that, though, right? No. Best double feature choice. I can give you just a kill I could also just give you working girl and you could do the Melanie Griffith before and after she became a massive star or I give you an early Hitchcock

Yeah, I was going to do Vertigo I think it's Vertigo. Okay. I just saw Vertigo on a big screen a couple months ago and they're very similar these two movies. How was it? Beautiful, majestic.

It's one of the best movies ever. The Andy and Red Zawatine Award for what happened the next day. Can we walk through Holly Bodies next few years? in the mid-80s glory years of porn and cocaine. I think she burns bright and then burns out. She feels like it, right?

She's running headlong into the Jenna Jameson era, which is a different era of porn. But that's like 10 years later. Not that many, though. Like, by the time you get to the late 80s, you're headed into a much more commercialized version of porn. So does she make it to 89? She's got to bridge the eras, basically.

I mean, I don't really. think that the movie that Jake gets back into, Vampire's Kiss, is like a springboard to mainstream success. So my imagine, I imagine that he's going full porn. Yeah. That's my, that's my guess. Maybe directing? Or, yeah, behind the scenes. But because we don't know if he's, I do think there's a path where Hollybody and Jake do have a company together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the ringer. But why would Hollybody want to end up with Jake? Because Jake sucks. That's why I can be like, like, she's really like entertaining. like his bullshit the entire time.

Yeah. Maybe she sees him as a portal to the legitimate world. Hmm. Something about him she likes. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie other than the telescope?

Mm-hmm. Probably the drill. The prosthetic mask, the Indian mask. How about a holly does Hollywood video cassette? Sure. Fake one. I don't know if they ever made that,

but that would be a good one. Okay. I think the telescope would be pretty cool because you could actually use it. Deborah Shelton's panties. stuff in your pocket for 10 hours. I should have them hanging out of my pocket this entire podcast. Oh, I forgot these were in here.

Fucking weirdo. Coach Finstock will our best life lesson. Don't trust anyone you barely know who asked you to the house sit. Yeah, that's a good one. I've met you twice. If it's too good to be for five weeks. It probably is. Don't follow strangers for long periods of time.

To long beach. Who win the movie? DePaul no. I think Melanie Griffith wins the movie. I think Melanie Griffith wins it. She comes a major star after this. De Palma is still bummed out that this movie didn't do well. Okay.

There's something wild working girl follow-up is dynamite. But I do think this is a very important De Palma movie because one of the reasons that makes him, him, is he did a couple of these that were just like, what the fuck was going on with that movie? There's some, there's been writing about this, and I think he's even commented on this. idea that he's not making movies

specifically for a contemporary audience they're made to be timeless and I do think that there is a quality to this that feels that way. I like that he almost always follows up a major pure commercial hit with a idiosyncratic indulgence, you know, and that like

for every time you make a mission impossible or an untouchables or Carlito's way, there's a raising cane right around the corner. There's always a like just don't forget I'm Brian De Palma. Yeah. You like Raising Game? I do. I do.

Can never get there. It's very similar to this movie. Do you like Carlito's Way? I really don't like it that much. Oh, I do. It's really tough. It's a five-star masterpiece. Sean Penn has his defense attorney? I'll give it another whirl. It's just...

I'm stunned, honestly. It's one of Pacino's absolute best. I get it. Did you read this Pacino memoir? Is it out? Yeah, it's out. I think we should all read it. Should we do like a 20 minute YouTube?

Yeah. Our favorite video? Apparently there's some crazy stories in it, of him just being deeply weird. He said he never tried cocaine. Well, there's one of the stories. I don't know where all these rumors come from that I did. Craig, what you think of body double? I just want to say before this, for the record,

I don't know who Nell is, and I don't want to know, and I'm enjoying it more because I don't know. I'm having a good time living in this Nell, ignorance. There was a review about this movie about Body Double that I really liked. It's from the New York Times. The guy writes, De Palma again goes too far,

which is the reason to see it. And I was like, that's exactly how I feel. I love it. If you're going to do it and you have the cachet to do it, then do it. And it's why I like Babylon, you know?

Yeah. Take a swing. I don't think this movie's saying that much. I don't think this movie's like that deep. But it's just like a personal movie. A cynical movie made by this, a talented director about a murder mystery in Hollywood in the porn industry. And it looks beautiful. Like the sweeping camera movements.

Like, it looks great. It was when we talked about blowout. And you were like, which is also the Palma, and you were like, I love when like A-list directors do like B-level genres. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this falls under that. And it's so fun to watch. It's my favorite thing.

Would you think of Craig Watson? I actually liked him more than you guys did. I thought he was really well cast and I thought he was good in the movie other than the the clusterphobic face is a disaster I don't they that was a mess do you think you would feel differently about it if he had like four or five good if like Scorsese he cast him in his next movie and he was a known He became a guy? Yeah like he became like dry fist of the ages Like could he have been in reservoir dogs as one of the guys? Probably not that's so funny But like it's easy to write him off could he been the uh because the third guy in Jaws too too young probably. Could he even Dreyfus's character

you mean? That's what I mean. I'm trying to think of like a mid-late 80s movie that he would have worked well in. I mean, I just don't know like I haven't seen enough of his other stuff. Yeah, sure. He was Groden in Monroe. Sure, if he was grodden. Right. Nah. I can't get there. I like to know. I'm glad you liked it

Craig. Is it just because his name was Craig? Maybe. Not a lot of Craigs. Not a lot of Craigs. Craig T. Craig Watson. Craig Robinson. Yeah. I think I need to watch more DePalma movies. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're so delightful. It's one of the best journeys you can go on as a movie fan.

Probably start with Carrie and just start going carry. They'll just go through. I haven't seen Gary. Yeah. Have you seen Scarface? No. Oh, man. I know.

I can't believe I haven't seen Scarface. I would do all of them. I would do sisters, Phantom of the Paradise. Like all the 70s movies and all the 80s movies are a blast. Have we done his two best movies or no? Like, we did blowout. You guys did Untouchables. And Untouchables, right.

We've done Mission Impossible. It would have done four, I think, right? We've done this and blah. Yeah, that's four. But we haven't done Scarface. We haven't done Dress to Kill. Or Carrie. Oh, yeah, Dress to Kill.

Could be in the, could this movie be made month? Yeah. Maybe it's DePaulma month. It's still, Dress the Kill is still good, though. Still a lot of it. I think Blowout still is his best movie.

I love to blow up. I agree. All right. Produced by Craig Horleback. Thanks to Sierra. Thanks to Sean. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Ringer movies. YouTube channel as well.

It's a lot of facial expressions on that. They might put like some sort of rating on this podcast. We'll see next week in the rewatch.