The Rewatchables - ‘Body Heat’ With Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, and Wesley Morris

Episode Date: November 22, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, and the New York Times’ Wesley Morris wipe the sweat off their brows and grab a snow cone as they revisit Lawrence Kasdan’s sweltering neo-noir erotic thriller ‘Body Heat,’ starring William Hurt, Kathleen Turner, and Ted Danson. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I sold my car in Carvana last night Well, that's cool No, you don't understand It went perfectly, real offer, down to the penny They're picking it up tomorrow Nothing went wrong So, what's the problem? That is the problem, nothing in my life goes to smoothie

I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need a knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this tablewood? I think it's lamated. Okay, yeah, that's good, that's close enough. Car selling without a catch.

Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find the ringerverse with Mallory Rubin. The prestige TV podcast that me and Mallor are both on. Mallory's doing the Crown. Yeah.

You did the crown. In motion. I'm still in the White Lotus world. Wesley Morris is here as well. You can find him on the Still Processing podcast, which is not on the Ringar Podcast Network, as well as the New York Times. We were former Grantland Partners.

Yeah. Nice to see you guys. Great to be with you. Wesley's been here for most of not. Naughty November, aka Neur November, aka Neo-November, and all the other bad names we've made for it. We've done three movies. This is the fourth one.

Noddy November's the best. Yeah. It's body heat. I'm getting sweaty. Let's do it. Kathleen to, Eric Spring. My temperature runs a couple of degrees high around 100. William heard.

I didn't dress like that. I don't know what you're talking about. You shouldn't wear that body. Together, they're inspiring. I'm a married woman. Evan Walker. Nice to meet you. to fill one body bag.

They're going to kill it. Watch two sizzling stars and the kind of movie you thought Hollywood forgot how to make. Body Heat. All right, let's start here. Erotic thriller, Mount Rushmore. Four movies total. Body heat, fatal attraction,

basic instinct, unfaithful. What gets knocked off? Unfaithful. You don't think that's worthy? No. So what's your fourth? I like the crazy ones.

I like the totally. off-the-wall ones, like some of them include color of night, final analysis. Color of night, that's not Mountain Rushmore. I'm not, okay, not round, I'm faithful, but you see what I'm saying? It's hard to come up with a fourth, is my point.

The first three are unassailable. As we've discussed, put them all out of business. Yeah. The genre went on, but it wasn't, you know, it was building to that moment and it peaked early. What would you have, body heat, fatal attraction, basic instinct,

what's your fourth? I honestly like the four. you had. Yeah. I'm not a big unfaithful person. We've discussed, you know, it's fine. I know. I know.

It's fine. It's a great one. I don't mind it. There are things in it I like, but I would just, I would, I'm going to sit here for a second and sit with the, with the alternatives. There are none that are as great, right? Well, you don't have to answer. My point is, I think the first three have to be on every list.

And then you probably argue about the fourth, depending on what you'd like a move is. But Body Heat starts at 1981. it is the first modern erotic thriller. It takes all the stuff that was happening in the 40s and 50s and sexifies it. It's interesting that you need a movie, you need something based on an old movie to start this genre, right?

Like it is capturing something that's in the air of old noir movies. Gobble indemnity was the one it got it compared to the most. Yeah, because there's similar things, right? I think that it is important. that you have the actual DNA, like, or, or something that is, that is acknowledging the DNA of, of the past, right?

Like that great period of Hollywood filmmaking, where it was in the studio system and they were really interested in genre, and that is a thing that this movie is calling back to. What do we need the most in an erotic thriller, No? Do we need it to feel like the main two characters actually probably fucked as soon as the filming ended for the day, and they went back to somebody's train?

I'm like, let's just finish this, guys. Absolutely. Yeah, you need to feel like you're rolling around in the melted cherry snow cone with them, you know, the sweetness of it, but also the stickiness of it. Like, you need that forbidden quality, but also the irresistible quality. You need to be able to sense immediately that everybody involved is making a terrible mistake, but also believe that they would be so swept up in it, that it wouldn't matter. and that all of the very present and recurring signs throughout the rest of the film would be ignored until it was too late. Because the sex is that good.

Yeah. You literally kill to keep the sex going. That is the question. Who would you kill for and why? Yeah. And I think that is the primal energy is the death drive and the danger zone, right? Like if those two things are apparent and I as a person watching this attraction, then sex, then I don't know, some kind of relationship happen. Do I believe that one of those people is worth killing for?

And do I believe that anybody in this movie is worth dying to keep this relationship going? And you probably need somebody grabbing somebody's dick and pulling them across the room. Only here. Only here. Only here. Yes. Only in this movie. Pull the guy's dick like he's a dog on a leash.

Never saw that one in a movie theater. No, but it's the most honest piece of metaphor I've seen in one of these thrillers. Agreed. Did this movie invent the Lifetime Network? Or was that fatal attraction? Oh, wow. I was getting that for an answerable questions later. I think, I mean, can I just give it?

This is the prototype, right? Well, no. Thousands of cable movies. Because life, well, I actually. have a different theory about this because there are different iterations of what a lifetime movie is, right? Yeah. I think the lifetime movie

in, well, I don't know, you could go back to the 40s and sort of see like a little bit of that DNA. But like every decade there is something that leads up to like the very sort of watered down version of like a Douglas Cirque movie by the time you get

to, you know, the Lifetime Network. But I'm also thinking of like, do you remember the NBC Sunday Night movie? Like, and how a lot of those were kind of erotic thrillers, but there was a little bit of a social message to them. Like, there was one with Melissa Gilbert and Joe Penny. I used to watch all of these. Tori Spelling was in a bunch of them, too.

I mean, name a TV star, but Melissa, the one with Joe Penny and Melissa Gilbert is the one I remember. I do not remember what it was called, but he was an abusive husband, and she was trying to get out. But, like, whatever was between them was so strong that you, as an audience member, were like, I'm attracted to Joe Penny so hard, but I love Melissa Gilbert because Laura Ingalls deserves to get out of an abusive marriage. What do I do?

I think that's, some of that is the seed for Lifetime movies because that movie basically, I don't remember what it was called. It's a relationship that's gone too far in some way. Yes.

No matter what the relationship is. The training wheels have come off. We're rolling down the driveway and we don't have breaks anymore. Right. All the wheels have come off. We're not even, I mean, somehow we're still rolling down the driveway. The driveway where Ned doesn't see the car and then reflects on not seeing the car.

Oh, poor Ned. Poor Ned. Poor Ned. Outclassed every step of the way. Now, we have an award named after you on the rewatchables, whether could this movie have used a better sex scene, aka the Mallory Rubin Award. The great honor of my career here. Well, I would say you're like the Mel Kuiper Jr. to the NFL draft of

hot sex scenes are rated in NC17 movies. Where does this body heat like what's going on? Fellow child of Baltimore, by the way. There you go.

When we did American Gigolo recently, we chatted about how one of the real surprises of revisiting that film is that it's like largely sexless, actually. It is entirely sexless, including in its leading man.

but that's neither here nor there. Go on. And whether that lends itself to the story, ultimately, that they're trying to tell inside of that film, right? Well, here you need the overpowering, irresistible quality. You need to believe when Peter says, the leading by the dick, right? Your dick is going to get you into trouble.

You're literally being pulled across the room by it. The shattering of the window, the glass door to enter in the first place, the stairs, the floor. Let's talk about the mattress. You can feel the silk of the sheet. They've run out of ice to put in the bathtub. We have a brief moment discussing a refractory period. Like, the sex is constant in the first half of this movie.

Yeah, yeah. He's sore. He can't go anymore. She's insatiable. You need to believe that Ned would stand outside in this heat wave for two hours while he knows a child is inside. He knows it's not a night he can be there. Looks like he has made his way via ocean to the home because he's so drenched and sweat. But you have to believe that he would stand there that whole time, right?

And then you have to believe that the first thing that Maddie would say is how sweaty and salty he tastes. Like the movie is just drenched and dripping in sex. One of the things that's interesting about the film is like hearing that there's an even racier initial cut that wasn't ultimately released because there's so much sex in this movie that it's like well what was in that? It's funny there's so much sex in this movie but there's never like too much sex at one time. Everything is like edited really nicely. Yeah, it's well-based. It's like snippets almost.

It's like long snippets, but it's never like the stereotypical they're rolling around and she climbs on top and starts mounting them like like Willie Shoemaker for three minutes. They don't have scenes like that. It's all like, you know, the side of her head or him. rolling over or them like standing basically naked by a window. Yeah. That comes later. And I think the thing that I love is the scene where he breaks into the house to get her,

right? Yeah. And she's just standing there watching him do it. Like, come get me. Yeah. Come get me. If you want me so bad, break in here and take it. Yeah.

And you don't need sex when that's what you want to do. But you also kind of want to, you don't need to. You don't need to see the sex because that is the sex, right? Like, but when you see them actually do it, when you, well, you don't see them do it. Well, they're about to do it, and he, like, holds off for a second. The great thing about, the one of the things I like about this movie

in terms of the way it's structured, in terms of way that the sex is structured, is that I think you, it's one, two, three times there together before you see them anything like sex, where she is, where Kathleen Turner is performing, you know, being had sex with. Yeah. It takes at least three times for you to get that. There's the meet you out on the pier.

There's the bar scene. There's the initial you're just here to look at the wind chimes. But even once we know they're doing it. It takes three different, like, encounters for us, the audience, to see them having anything we would recognize as sexual intercourse. Yeah. We're usually like with them right before or with them right in the wake of it. And I think it's really effective.

Like there's the initial sequence that you're mentioning, the kind of like slow removal of the underwear and the camera lingers as he's placing the underwear down. We have the window standing naked in front of the window and this like, okay, post-coital really swept up in the bliss of it. You're always with them right before and right after. And I think that part of that's like what you're saying. it really quickly establishes this is just the rhythm of their day now. This is the rhythm of their day, the rhythm of the week.

It's just a part of like the fabric of their lives together. This is a constant thing to the point where they can't stay away from each other. And if anything is disrupted about the husband's routine, which it is at some point, right?

With Karen being dropped off and it throws the schedule out of whack, then immediately it's like, well, do we call each other? Do you sneak into my office? Like there's no actual understanding of how to, interact with each other or be together in any normal way outside of a stairwell or the floor.

I love it. The bathtub. They're naked a lot or like it seems like they're naked and they're very comfortable with the two actors being naked with each other. Yeah. Which I think is also unusual for a movie. It really feels like this is a relationship you're stumbling into. Nothing feels staged at all.

Yeah. Even when they're clothed, they seem naked. Yes. Right? And the thing about the routine that you're talking about. the routine that you're talking about, I love that because, you know, in a film theory class or some kind of gender studies class, we would be talking about the disruption of the domestic, of the domestic, like, by the introduction of this child. This child is a destabilizing force in the, like, elicitness of this affair, right? And not only is the child, like, sort of structurally destabilizing force, she becomes a narrative destabilization, like narrative clarification. Yeah. for the plot, but a narrative destabilization, right? Because she's the thing, she's the contingency

that can throw this whole plan out of whack. And once she shows up at the end, you're kind of like, not only did somebody read their Henry James, somebody also understands stress, where there really wasn't a lot before, but when the kid shows up, you realize you care more for William Hurst character than you realized you did.

And you also kind of hate... Dumbed Ned? You kind of hate... Dumb horny Ned. But you also kind of hate the... kid because she's kind of a child actor a little bit you really don't like anyway continue

Turner said Turner did a great playboy interview which I read all of oh yeah I bet she said she was talking about whether lines were crossed during the filming which it seems like it got pretty bawdy on the set she said the truth is you can act

sexuality to a certain extent but if you were actually being touched actually touching someone there's a gray area there because your body is responding even though your mind is saying okay now the camera is there have to kiss at three quarters so you're thinking that stuff but you're also having physical reactions because nobody can be petted touched and kissed without feeling something

I think that was the effect on everybody I'm sure that anybody watched got caught up at some extent it was just powerful stuff because and she's answering a question like a couple of times when you were filming the scenes of William Hart you ran off like you were so it was so powerful, you ran off like crying. Not crying from the, but just because it was so powerful, it hit something in her. She wasn't married yet.

I think they clearly had, she's like 27. They had a connection that, I don't know, I researched as much as I could. This is her first film role. Yeah, she was a soap opera actress. Yeah, and she won this, and she's with William Hart who had made one movie at that point. This is when he's doing his Altered States was the first one. He does body heat and eyewitness.

Altered states is his first movie? Yeah. So he's... Wow. These are pretty fresh faces at this point. And she was just a phenomenon when this movie came out. I was like, who is this? And then somehow didn't work for two years after.

I think it was too much. I think maybe that experience was too much. And I also think that, you know, I think, like, what do you put this person? in. What do you ask this person to do after this? Well, and also, like, where did she come from? Because she's on the doctor's soap opera. But she's, you know, like, if you're talking to 81, it's the legacy of the 40s and 50s,

and you got Lauren Bacall, who I think she was compared to a lot, Rita Hayworth and Bonnet Turner, all those people. And then that kind of actress went away. I don't really know where it moved into like a Fay Dunaway type of. Yes, where the neurosis sort of took over. Yeah, where you were attractive, but you weren't, there was more baggage to it? Right, yeah.

And this brought it back to the Phentphalus. Dorothy Malone is the person who I think nobody talks about from the 50s, who was the, who was, that was, she was the destabilizing star. Yeah. We're like, she was the neurone. I mean, all those, like, Betty Davis was a neurotic. Mirrienne Hopkins was a neurotic. But Betty Davis was never, I would.

risk my whole lifetime sex with Betty Davis. No. But you know, it's funny that you put it that way because that of course was the power, the mysterious power of Betty Davis, was that I don't know, I mean, you'd have to talk to me about her as an erotic presence, not that she necessarily was one.

Yeah. But is she someone who, you know, all the movies are about, like every movie is like has a man or two who want her. Right. Right? Where she is caught up in some kind of sexual shame, drama where she's commanding sex, right?

But her, she is, like, the eroticism of Betty Davis is not the appeal. It's the power. It's the control. It's the command of herself. That, in tandem with the neurosis

that kind of takes over in the 70s, you know, that you see in Fay Dunaway, Thay Dunaway is basically Betty Davis goes to therapy and maybe stops going to therapy or something. Yeah. And so by the time you get to a movie like Body Heat,

like Kathleen Turner has the option. The thing that I like about this movie is it is all those avenues sort of leading to a character and performance like this where she knows the score. She is fully in touch with her sexuality. As ridiculous as that connection sometimes is in this movie. Well, she's got the voice too.

The voice was her calling card. And she has what you would look up in the dictionary if you looked up like, sex in the dictionary. It would one of the one of the one of the listings would be for Kathleen Turner. Yeah. So go.

I think that the voice point is important because like in addition to now it just being something that's like inextricable when you think about her and her entire film career for this is like an introduction for so many viewers. It is so of a piece with the overall visceral quality of the movie. And like again, I think like American Gigolo,

not to constantly mention it, but we just talked about it. It is such an interesting contrast where the sex in that movie is so clinical and technical, and that's the point, right? And here it's like you're watching it and you can smell the cigarettes in every room. You can feel the fog pressing against your eyeballs. Like you can feel the sweat dripping down you. I pulled my t-shirt off me at some point. You mentioned the clothing.

Yeah. And it's like clothing is not just something to be removed. It's something you have to peel off of another person, right? And so the voice is a part of that. It's something that's something that calls. on one of your senses in a way that is like overpowering and almost like animalistic inside of the movie.

Yeah. Yeah, no, the clothes are like something you have to peel a way to get it fruit. Like that is another way to think of it. I've been a couple things that have done that. I remember that long hot summer, I think it was called with Don Johnson and Jennifer Conner or the hot spot.

It was something. The hot spot. Yeah. Same thing. There's been movies that have gone after the sweaty, the sweaty sexy look. But this one mastered. Wasn't Virginia Madsen, though, to be clear,

She was in there too. I was thinking about if you start with Turner. It's almost like a championship belt that passes from actress to actress. I'm curious to see where this goes. Well, I think Greta Scotchie had it for like a split second there in the late 80s. She had a couple movies and then that was basically her presumed innocent character. She takes Rusty the lawyer and he's just, that's it. He has to have her and then it's, I don't want to spoil it, but that doesn't turn out great.

for Greta. Right to Sharon Stone. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Who I think is basically like the younger sister of Kathleen Turner. Then we moved to like Demi Moore disclosure. I was going to say, yeah.

By disclosure, she has it. Like she's figured out some sort of persona. I think Hallie Barry had it for a little bit. Mm-hmm. But never got to use it in a way that was in, it was never like a, she never got to be powerful with it. She never got to own it. No. Swordfish was the only one where they,

she makes swordfish and they basically say Halliberry's gonna be tapos in this and people are like, what? I went. Cali Bears'i bears tapas in there. Travolta and tapas Hallibari but so she did have some power

it was never tapped into it in the right role. But like think about what that is. That's like treating her like a bond girl. I know. Well she basically those were the parts. She never had her version of the body heat. I think Robb,

I forgot to mention Robin Gibbons just in Boomerang. Yeah. I felt like tapped into it for an hour. Jolie was the next one. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is like...

Mr. Mrs. Smith, you're watching her take Jennifer Anderson's husband away during this two-hour spy movie. Like, she's just throwing 130. Yeah, I think... Okay, keep going. Scarlett, Matchpoint, especially. Match point, that's basically the whole point

of a role in that. And then it kind of, I don't... Never really happens again until we're there now with Sidney-Sweeney, and I don't know what movie it's going to be. But it will be a Sydney, Sweeney movie. I said a personal over-under for how many minutes in before you mentioned Sydney Sweeney today.

Oh, no. What is, how do you do? I think we're, I think we're at the, the under. Yeah. She needs her body heat. Yeah. Like something, because she's the one that could have the somebody being like, I'm going to risk it off for Sydney Sweeney. Definitely.

It's a hard thing, though. It's because there's been a lot of beautiful actresses, but very few of them, can pull up that extra thing where it's like I can get anyone in the palm of my hand and you will commit a murder for me I would throw in Linda Fiorantino I don't know how that

what she does for you Just in that one movie with Peter Berg Last Reduction and Jade also Which is bad Of course it's bad Yeah Jade's bad but you know She still had it right And I think she had it in a way

that really scared men in Hollywood Oh yeah Because she never worked again really after that Right. And I think it was too much. Possible. And at that point, I mean, what were you going to ask Linda Fior and Tina to do a romantic comedy?

I don't think nobody, I think nobody, I feel like that is a, that is a story we never got to the bottom of. What the hell happened to that career? And I think it's just pure workplace sexism. That's my explanation. Yes. So, yeah, it's a rare quality. Pauline Kail was less impressed. Yeah.

She said that Turner was following the marks on the floor made by the actresses who preceded her. Yeah, that's a fair point if you grew up watching the actors you just listed. Yeah, what's your point, Pauline? That if she was influenced by other actresses, this is a bad thing? But that's like, that's kind of part of the conversation and the critical conversation around the film in general, where even though it's broadly a very well-reviewed movie,

where there is a divide, it's there, right? It's like, is it too derivative or is the fact that it's such an intentional ode part of its, like, brilliance and charm? People responded to that differently. It was derivative, but it also wasn't because none of these movies were loaded with sex like this. I mean, this basically...

Well, not in the... This was, like, basically colorized a movie like this. Oh, you mean the classic 40s and 50s movies. Yeah, of course. It was so much more modern and advanced, I think. I think this is interesting to think about. This movie came out in 81. Yeah.

It is made by a person who grew up with the movies that we're talking about. Lawrence Caston would have been, you know. But when you say 81, you also could have told me it came out in 73 or 88. Yes, this is another one of those movies. I don't even know. Does 81 feel like it's remotely president in this movie in any way? Other than no cell phones? Only in the way that the characters interact with each other.

I don't know how to explain it, but there's something about the kind of loose understanding of how everything is basically out on the table. Everybody knows that Ned sleeps with whatever woman will sleep back with him. I was thinking the only thing that feels dated about this movie is Ted Danson pre-chairs. of like nerdy. What's his name? Peter. Peter Lowenstein. Like just, it's three years later, there's no way you could cast Ted

Dancin this part. He'd probably be in the William Hurd part. Yeah. Or he's not in the movie. And then it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Like, I mean, I'm attracted to Ted Danson during this period, but not. Very different energy.

Not in this way. He couldn't do what William Hurd does. Well, let's talk about our guy Bill Hart. Okay. Yeah. Deerly departed. Just an unbelievable run. One of the great IMDB runs.

altered states, eyewitness, body heat, big chill. What happened to you, Nick? What happened to you? Gorky Park,

kisses spider woman, children of lesser God, broadcast news, accidental tourists. All in eight years. Wow. Just bangers. But what happened?

What happened after that? I think he had an eight-year run and then you get passed by, you know, slightly younger white actors. He made. What did? did he make after, I can't remember anything after accidental tourists.

I think he was from that period. From what he famously difficult. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was a piece of it. Had a long run in the MCU as Thaddeus Ross. Oh, boy. He did. That's true.

You can't deny it. It's a fact. A role that Harrison Ford is poised to takeover, by the way. No. I swear. Wow. Jesus. Yeah.

Get ready for phase five of the MCU. Do we need him? I'm just concerned, given how often he sustains, like, very serious injuries on the sets of Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies that being in the MCU is not safe for him but one thing with Hurt, he does this movie with Kasten

and then he does Body Heat with Big Chill with Kasten where he plays an impotent guy. So he goes from playing like this sex crazed basically Mantoid body heat to a guy who can't get it up two years later with the same director and then accidental tourists

is with Kastin. Big reunion. Yeah. I think the thing William Hurt, there's been nobody like him. You know, typically, all the actors from the era in which this movie is calling back to, they're all Jews who were hoping to be William a William Hurt type, right? They were all, like, fashioned by the studios to be the waspiest person you could be. And so, 40 years after, you know, this great Anglicization of, of, you know, all different kinds of ethnicities to, you know, to be these wasps.

You finally get a great wasp actor to also kind of be a movie star. And it's just really interesting to be that, like, all of the circles coming around on this. Like, Kathleen Turner is just, doesn't appear to have had any work done to become Kathleen Turner. But all these people from the era in which this movie is hearkening back to, like, the story, that you can read about what actors, what people went through to become actors and then movie stars who looked like what those people looked like.

And then just, you know, Kathleen Turner shows up and just seems like she just fell off the movie star truck. Six years later, this is Costner. I've thought a lot about Costner in this movie. Couldn't do it. It's definitely in it. Wait, oh, you mean if they make this in 1987?

Yeah, and I think no way out in 1981 is William. I do think Koster ends up taking a lot of these William Hurt rolls. But William Hurt also got older. He started losing his hair a little bit. The hair. You move into a different phase. That's a huge thing. The thing about Kostner, though,

okay. So William Hurt in this movie is very sexy and very magnetic. But he's not Kevin Kossner. Like specifically is not Kevin Kosser. It's not one of the five most handsome people who's ever been in movies. And I think you have to, like obviously we'll get later who would be in this movie, you know, recasting couch for 2022, et cetera.

And it's difficult to actually find that sweet spot where it's somebody who is commanding and magnetic enough, but also like you have to believe would be so swept up in this that they couldn't just go move immediately to the next thing. There's another point here that is very important to your point, which is that William Hurt has never played a purely good person. Right?

There's always some streak of inality to every one of these characters for the most part. And yet we are, like, think about Tom in broadcast news. Like, this is a guy who is the hero of your movie, essentially, because he's good looking, the movie is about how good looking Tom is. And yet, the thing that kind of sinks the relationship between him and Holly Hunter is an act of ethical corruption, right? it's over and over again Kiss of the Spider-Woman is the only movie that he that he makes during this run where

I mean that's not the only one I think Gorky Park is sort of a similar He never made a movie like big No no no no these guys are all Problems or he was never the dad and home alone John heard Who kept his problems out of the movies Yeah yeah

But yeah I mean you know That's the thing about Ned in this film Right he he already he already is corrupt. You know what the other thing with William Hart? Right. I always felt like he was William Hurt in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like the role would change. Maybe his hair, he had a mustache or he didn't or whatever. But he was never that far away from being William Hurt, which I think Michael Douglas was like that really in anything he did except for maybe. Costner? Maybe Wall Street. Costner was like that, but they, you know, Richard Gere is like that unless he's evil cop, Richard Gear, but for the most part, he's just Richard Gear.

But I think Richard Gear, Evil Cop Richard Gear, is tapped into something essential about Richard Gear, you know. Kathleen Turner, she goes from here to the man with two brains. Oh, yes. Really good Steve Martin movie, where she basically pays a parody of this body heat character.

And then Romance in the Stone. She becomes one of the biggest female stars in the world. Thank God for that movie. Thank God for that movie. Rentson Stone is an awesome movie. Because I think that everybody, all three of those guys, Danny DeVito Michael Douglas, Kathleen Turner. If it weren't for that movie,

which is a Robert Temeckis film, their careers are different, right? Like, who knows what happens to her? This is a great, this is a great answered what if, right? Like, we now know what would have happened if, like, the right movie it come along in exactly the right time. It didn't change too much,

just gave it more of a plot and had more of a different kind of movie passed to operate with it. Both of them are great. They're great together. She looks awesome. I was so in love with her in 1984. Like just, that even got to me. Head over heels. Just absolutely in love with her. Pritzie's honor. She says the romance in the stone sequel. Pegasoo gets married. Yep. Julia and Julia. Switching channels. It's starting to flip a little bit. No, she... Then who framed Roger Rabbit and her voice becomes the star of an animated movie,

which was kind of been heard of. She's an accidental tourist. And then, finally the 80s end with her with The War of the Roses. Yeah. Which is such a fascinating movie. It's actually one of my wife's favorite, favorite movies. Oh, really? And she's awesome in that movie. Like, awesome.

And that's the decade of Kathleen Turner. But I think she's one of the four biggest actresses of that decade, I would say. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. You'd certainly put her against anybody. I mean, who else are they? Goldie Hawn?

Not Goldenhan's, like, kind of fading away by... By the end of the decade. By the 83-84 range. Her first half of the 80s. I feel like she's more 70s, though. Her stardom, though, her bankability, she's a movie star in the 80s, not the 70s. Whoever's on the list, Kathleen Turner's on it.

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I'm just trying to think who else. The calling card was the voice. And she had this spirit to her that you just seem like, she seems like a fun hang. Things will get a little crazy. Come over the house.

Maybe opening that second bottle of wine. I can't believe we did that. She also seems like a good storyteller. Yeah. I don't know why because she, I mean, the way she works in War of the Roses, the way she works in Peggy Sue got married. I mean, she's required to talk a lot. She's unbelievable in War of the Roses. Yeah.

War of the Roses is the interesting movie, too, because it really is, I watched this two years ago. And there's something, the surprise of it to me is how much it is about a woman who, who realizes that she has married, but... She realizes she hates her husband. She hates marriage. And her husband. Yes, but I think... She has a heart attack, and she's like,

I realized that was disappointed that you lived. Right. But there's everything... Come up to hear. It's everything about marriage. She hates the kids. She doesn't hate the kids, but she hates the, like, the things that you're supposed to do and give up.

Right. Classic, I think, does this is the stereo, There's the, like the archetype of the wife as, as, like, food-oriented business owner. Yeah. Does that begin here? Is it food that she wants to make or is it those statues? I can't remember. She wants to make, like, recipes.

It's like food. Baby boom is, this is the plot of baby boom. This is big business. I think there's some food-oriented thing in that movie where Bet Miller and Lily Tomlin want to go into Hog Hollow is where they're from, I think. So you're saying like the woman getting into food as an industry era. That's their, that's, that's one of the dreams that women. My thing was War the Roses.

I would cut out every day in Davido scene. You cut out every day in the video scene? He directed it. Wow. And he just puts himself in it with this flashback where he's talking to some lawyer. Yeah. It's all terrible. He's cut all of it out.

Just give me Michael Douglas Catholic Turner. He's giving advice to a future client, right? Okay. No, don't need it. And then, uh, well, let's take a break and then we'll talk about Lawrence Kazan. Okay. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptitide may be able to help.

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be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. All right, so Lawrence Kasden Just on a fucking heater Unbelievable He wrote Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark and back to back to years

Not sure if you've heard of those movies Unbelievable Writes and directs body heat He writes continental divide This is we're only in a three year span here What's Continental Divide again? That was the Belushi movie That's pretty good belushi movie

Every one of those guys wound up making like a movie with some major SML person from this period He writes Jedi, writes it directs Big Chill, writes it directs Silverado, writes and directs accidental tourist, he does, I Love You to Death, Grand Canyon, White Earp, and French Kiss.

That's all in 15 years directing. He had a good run. He had a very good run. And goes down, I mean, despite the great director stuff, is one of the great screenwriters. And now is having the Renaissance again. That's right. Empire,

through Big Chilla, that's all just three years. Like that's unbelievable. I was going to ask you guys, actually. With a typewriter. He doesn't even have a computer. He's typing scripts. Where does that rank

among the best starts to a career ever? What's up there? For a screenwriter and movie maker. I mean, I would say like that that first five years has to rank among anything because he's writing movies

that are the biggest movies of all time and on top of it doing body heat and big, Big Chill. Not just the biggest movies of all time. I think this is like a classic part of the

Kazdin essence redefining something fundamental about the genre. And obviously I'm a huge Star Wars fan. So like, and Big Chill is one of my favorite movies ever and so is Raiders.

So this is like, this is just like an all-time iconic stretch in terms of people making movies that I love. But when you revisit Empire Strikes Back in particular, I think that it is difficult to overstate, especially

you know, we're 45, five years into Star Wars is like a defining thing in pop culture. What Kasden did to that script and the elements that were introduced into that script that would not have been there. What is his relationship to that screenplay? So he came in late. And a lot of the darkness of the movie is like credited to his hand. Okay.

So I think also, though, like a figure like Han Solo, who is obviously very well established in Star Wars in a New Hope as like the rogue and the smuggler, the way that his kind of like sexiness emerges in Empire, like those are the scenes with Leah and Han in a hallway on Hoth. And so there's just like this energy. You know, you rewatch a New Hope, of course, also one of the most important movies ever made. And you're like, right, this is when we wondered if Luke and Leah, who are siblings, we're going to fuck each. other and then you watch empire and you're like, Star Wars can be sexy. Star Wars is introspective. Star Wars is dark. Star Wars, this is the scene where Luke

goes into the cave on Dagabaa and Darth Vader's helmet comes off in his vision and he sees his own face. Like, the things that are there and you apply it, it's not a one-to-one, but the neo-noir elements, too, of like taking something central to the genre and then putting

that new modern contemporary element and flare. What do you do with a cliffhanger? Like, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you re-fashioned a cliffhanger for whatever was modern in 1977? How do you take, like, an old romantic comedy and refashion it for something in 1977? Like, this is what Superman did so well, right? Like, you, it's different because there is a darkness, there's like a fundamental darkness around the Luke Han's, uh, Luke Han, um, Leia situation. but there's still fundamentally, like,

Luke is Ralph Bellamy at that situation. Right. Right? Like, Ralph, Ralph, Ralph, Luke Skywalker is the Ralph Bellaby of that. A lot of people don't know that trio. Chubaca was initially an impotent Vietnam vet when they did Empire Strikes. But then he took that.

He moved in a big show. Oh, boy. The run is great. It's, I can't imagine how much money. he made, but I'm sure it was a decent amount. Oh, it was great. I'm sure he did okay. But do you, like, what led him to this,

right? Like, wow, what, what, how do you get from from writing those two movies, you know, Raiders to the Lost Ark and doing whatever he did to Empire Strikes Back? I mean, it's obvious that they're of a piece with each other, right? Because this was this period

in which all those directors at some point were revisiting the past in some way. I think you saw a piece of turf. I think, this kind of movie just wasn't being made anymore. Right. He saw that. He obviously had one of the best eyes for casting of anyone of the last 45 years, right?

You look at like how he did the big chill, how he does this movie, the fact that he was all in on Costner, he cuts Costner out of the big chill. And he was like, you know what? That Costner guy, I'm going to write a movie and make him the star, Sovarado, because that's how much I believe in this guy, Costner. He's Gina Davis and accidental Torres. Like over and over again, he's just nailing people, even Grand Canyon, which is a pretty flawed movie. Yeah.

But the casting in that movie is awesome. Danny Glover is great in that movie. Kevin Klein, like, he always saw the Kevin Klein thing. He saw Steve Martin as like this L.A. douchebag. Jeremy Cistow as the Sun, you know, I just, yeah, I mean, yes. He was always great at, like, I see something in this person, which is, like, one of the best qualities you can have. Well, that's a great point because, okay, again, if you think of it, you think of, of empire, which

George Lucas is crafting the story for Lee Brackett is originally writing the screenplay. Even think of Raiders, Spielberg Lucas, etc. These are films where the story is set and fleshing out the language, the dialogue,

the arcs is the key. And isn't Kasden, like, he talks a lot about character as like the thing that inspires him. thinks about the characters. He has that idea and that sense of the movie comes to him through the figures, right? So the casting, of course, would be, like, elemental then to unlock that for him.

That's one of the things that makes Body Heat so interesting. And so I think really riveting to return to, he'll always, like, as a self-critic or just a reflecting on his own career, like, identify the fact that he's going to be a character guy, not a plot guy. The plot of Body Heat as a mystery is actually pretty good. Yeah. Like it's going to surprise you the first time, but also totally track where you're like, yes. Nothing here was invented. There's no DSX Machina. There's no like element at the end that doesn't track on a rewatch.

And then it's very rewarding on a rewatch. Well, but also you have the characters. Yeah. The two characters are fucking awesome. Like Ned is like, he thinks he's smarter than he is. He thinks with his dick. Yeah. His friends being fun of him.

Like by the end of the movie, it's a fully complete picture. him. And then Kathleen Turner is like, not just the performance, but really interesting character. It's like, what's driving this person? She hates her husband. Why is she with him? She wants his money. She goes to this hotel bar or wherever that is.

Just so these guys can hit on her, she could shoot them down. She's planning this whole thing two years in advance. Yeah, it's a long time. What is her relationship with Matt, with Marianne? Kim Zimmer. Can we just stop for a second? to Paul's Lung. Do you know Kim Zimmer? So she's Guiding Light, but she looks awesome in this movie.

Kim Zimmer. She looks great. She watched Guiding Light when I was a kid. But the other thing I noticed was how much Esther House ripped off basic instinct. Yeah. With the Sharon Stone character with some of the Turner stuff, even like having these mystery people in their lives. But you know one thing with Kazdin, Lucas loved him.

Yeah. They wanted to make this movie. And Lucas ends up guaranteeing to the guy, to the production company, the lad company. If Kasden goes over budget, I'll guarantee the extra. Because Lucas is like, what does he care? He's got a ton of money, but he's like... He got the points on the merch. He's good.

He's like, Kastin's my guy. I got this. If he goes over, so he had Big Brother George in his corner, which was helping. Unbelievable. Seems like George Lucas was a good friend. Yeah, no, I mean... Yeah, it seems like recurring theme. The Hollywood stories about Lucas and Spielberg, like giving each other advice on their movies,

is just delightful to learn about. Yeah. You mentioned the Big Chilis. is one of your favorite movies. We have not done on the rewatchels yet. It is one of my, I think, nine favorite movies. Is it really? Yeah.

I fucking love it. And I think it's because my mom loved that, so we always used to, you know, it's my mom's generation. It's my mom's favorite movie of all time. That might be one of like five movies that I have on VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray. Yeah. Wow. It's in that rare.

I love that movie. And what's great about the big show is so many people have tried to rip it off and everybody's falling short. All of them. Right. Nobody has come close to pulling it off, even though it seems like, hey, these people are friends, and now they're getting back together for this. And nobody's come close. What do you think is, like, give me an example of that.

Indian Summer. Oh, God. That was, that's, that's wow. There's a movie that came out, I think 10 years ago with Channing Tatum. It was a high school reunion movie. It's a whole bunch of people in it. Cheney Tatum's in it. Oh, yeah.

I remember that. I'm telling you, they try this all the time. They tried reunion or a wedding or a few. funeral and let's throw people together and there's a history and they never land the plane. You know what's interesting about what you're saying is during that, I think the thing that is most attempting to be this, but is very different from it, but the vibes are still the same, is 30-something.

No question. That's like three, four years after the big show. If you're taking all that energy of this sort of post, like post-hippie baby boom energy, baby boomer energy and like applying it to like real life circumstances right like what would it be like for these

like yuppies now to to be out in the world and the question in the big chill that's interesting right the thing that most interests me about that movie I have a lot of sort of questions about it like just the we will invite you out

right now you be careful the friend mechanics Doors right there. Don't even sit here in front. Like, y'all don't know what I'm talking about. There are some requests made in the Big Chill that are worth thinking about, like, okay.

But a lot of those issues are things that kind of come up over the run of 30-something. And I'm just thinking about, like, that is the thing that seems most like, where it's energy and, like, the force that's driving at this kind of semi-nostolic, semi-nostic, semi-like post-radical force. What would it mean for this particular

radicalist Vietnam era generation to then suddenly be pining for those days again? This bed's always been good for me and Sarah. Yeah. What a movie. So great.

I can't believe you. I can't wait to do that movie on this podcast. I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't believe that on close is like, you have sex with Mary and Kaye Place. We'll call it even.

And I'll stay in the house I'll be downstairs I'm gonna hang out with Jeff Goldboom You have sex in our bed And then I'm gonna go cry in the shower Yeah That was an all-time ugly cry Oh god

Okay go on I just love William her in that movie He's good He's also the thing A long time ago We knew each other for a very short time He's very sexy And I think that like

I think that we should spend one second to talk about that because because I'm always thinking with these movies, who would I have sex with? Is it both of them? Is it one of them? And like which one? I would definitely have, I would definitely do it with William Hurt.

For sure. Without question. I wouldn't kill for him, but he's not who I'm killing for. You need him to kill for you. I think I can make that happen. Absolutely. I think I can make that happen.

Nobody had a cushier existence than us Oh no This is like When the big chill eats body heat We've lost Bill Nine million dollar budget Made 24 million Yeah

Not bad I didn't realize it was that much of a hit Okay Roger Ebert Roger Ebert is dead But he loves 90 November Four stars Four stars for Body Heat

Oh wow He said Quote Women are rarely allowed To be bold and devious In the movies Most directors are men. They see women as goals, prizes, enemies, lovers, and friends, but rarely as protagonists.

Turner's interests in Body Heat announces that she is the film's center of power. It's true. There you go. Interesting. Most rewatchable scene. Oh, yeah. We meet Maddie. She's at some concert, comes around, walks down the aisle toward William Hurt.

He's locked in. Start flirting. They throw just weird sex-fueled lines back and forth. That's my business, how married I am. You're calling that a concert. Wasn't it like a high school band? Whatever the fuck it was. It's very embarrassing.

There was an audience. It was like Lawrence Welk hour. Of course she liked. That's how I knew I liked her. She's like, what is this shit? It's a hot night out, and I'm listening to this Lawrence Welk stuff? No, I'm not. Don't talk to me about how hot it is.

I got to go. Just a lot of flirting. But a heavy, heavy, heavy flirting. I mean, the dialogue in this movie is absurd. You should have said, wait, she said, she says, I'm a married woman. Yeah. Yeah. And then he says, you should have said, I'm an unhappily married woman.

And that's when she says, that's my business, how happily married I am. Yeah. I'm a married woman. Meaning what? Meaning I'm not looking for company. And you should have said, I'm a happily married woman. That's my business. What?

How happy I am. And how happy is that? You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man. What else do you like? Lazy, ugly, horny? I got them all. You don't look lazy.

Yeah, I mean, it's not just one beat. It's like four. I liked it. Next one, the bar scene. Oh, this is a great one. Wow. You all right? Yes, I'm fine.

My temperature runs a couple of degrees high around 100. I don't mind the engine or something. Maybe you need a tune-up. Don't tell me. You have just the right tool. I don't talk like that. Some men, once they get a whiff of it, they trill you like a hound. My temperature runs high about 100.

I don't mind my engine runs a little high. that's just like I'm a smoldering volcano Yeah That's a great one Because she actually is Telling him what she's doing And he's just too dumb

Yeah To figure it out A lot of them have tried that seat You're the first one I've let stay That's probably a red flag Yeah Yeah He's like great

I'm the first one She's let stay He's just a moron I mean I'm gonna say it again Ned Men Yeah

chair through the door oh god wild stuff just the way she's standing there and the way the camera captures her I think it shoots her from inside

but you get at least one or two shots from his point of view through the door before like he's like he's trying to figure out how to get in there even by like the erotic thriller standard

there's like almost a horror movie quality to that stretch for a second it's like except I mean but what you're but to Roger Eber's point Like, you're watching her in that sequence. Okay, but so

that's a, that's a, I'm interested in that snippet that you shared from our guy, Raj, because like, in a way I agree and think that's true, but I, you're always, always occupying Ned's point of view in the film because of the mystery.

There's one scene where, like, suddenly, this is, I always don't, I never like this in movies. Like, when do we leave? It'd be like, when in, attraction do we spend time alone with Glenn Close? Yeah.

Only when she's suffering. When are we alone with Kathleen Turner? When do we see anything from her point of view? It's when the husband comes, when Richard Crenna comes home. Right. Then we're alone with her. Right. And it's her trapped in domesticism.

With him and the niece. And the sneak attack niece. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, there is a way in which the only way we can ever understand her is as a as someone sort of pinned down. You know what's interesting about that scene? She has mostly the same vibe she has anyway in the movie,

but you could tell she's been short-circuited. Because she's super happy and pleasant, but we're just so used to just seeing her being on the prow, like a fucking mountain lion, that all of a sudden she's just making small talk with her niece. And kind of resenting it. It's pretty jarring. Well, but like it also tracks in a way that she would be,

that there would be that constancy through her character because she's conning all of them. They're all part of the long con. She's a phony the whole time. That's a good point. After you saw this movie, do you go buy 100 chimes

and put them all around your house? I'll just spoil it. That's my pick for memorabilia. All right on the movie. All right. I have a couple others I'll throw up. That's a top pick. Next one.

We didn't have enough sex appeal in this movie. Let's bring Mickey work. Oh, Jesus. Mickey's first scene. I have as a rewatchable. I also have it as the Kid Cuddy Pursuit of Happiness War for Best Needle Drop because all of a sudden,

Bob Seeger's in the house. What's what matter? You can't think of your little music? Incredible. He's just like rocking out. He's a lot of nowhere. Yes. It's amazing.

Great stuff. And Mickey drops some gold mines, including, are you ready to hear something? I want you to see if this sounds familiar. Anytime you try a decent crime, you've got 50 ways, you can fuck up.

If you think it's 25 and then you're a genius and you ain't no genius. He has some great lines of that scene. I thought that would have been a really good senior yearbook quote. I would encourage anyone figuring out their high school yearbook quote.

Just drop that one and see if anyone notices. Your books are pretty germane here. So wait, let's think about this for a second. 50 ways you can fuck up. And if you can think of 25 of them, you're a genius. So basically 25 bad outcomes of the crime you're going to commit.

Mm-hmm. I wonder if that's accurate. I mean, I'll never find out. 50. 50 seems like high. I would have maybe gone 10. I love that scene, though, because that's one of many examples

of these, like, pearls of wisdom. Like, the sage counts. The arsonist. I got a serious question for you, what the fuck are you doing? Is one of the best lines of the movie? You got to try not to get famous while you're in the act.

Like, these are just actually some of the best writing in the movie. Is that the time where he says that and behind him are the word, is the word cocaine. Yeah. Like, like, like, scratched into the wall. So there are two teddy seeds. There's the first one with all of us. That's the second one has the cocaine.

Okay, scratched into it. But I'm like, what are we being told right now? Anytime we could get an arsonist, Confucius, I'm in. Yeah. Amen. Amen. The murder's fun. Yeah.

Love a good murder in a noir movie. She comes, screams out. He has a gun. Yeah. Where? The Will assessment, I like how he walks in and he sees the room in the chairs and it pans around and then you see her in the chair. It's almost like a reveal. But I love when the lawyer is like, would anybody mind if I smoked?

And then five of them have cigarettes. And then Ted Dance is like, I'll just see what you guys are doing. Sorry. Next one, Dancing and Isaac. Oh, Isaac. Drop him by William Hertz. Take some incredibly intelligent advice and stay away from her. He's right for once.

Oh, I'm sorry, guys. I just can't do that. Why not? For one thing, did you get a look at her? That wouldn't be quite so meaningful, except that the day she started coming on to me in case you haven't heard that lady's about to come into a great deal of money. The fact is she invited me out there tonight,

and I am going, and I am going to keep on going. As many days or nights... weekends, she'll have me. Med. Someday your dick is going to lead you into a very big hassle. That lady may have just killed her husband. She's not going to inherit anything by killing me. Besides, maybe she'll try to fuck me to death.

I really like this scene. Shirtless in front of the freezer to get the cool air. There's a familiarity with the three guys that I actually believe. Oh, Oscar? Yeah, Oscar. I meant Oscar, not Isaac. he walks in and he just like it's clear those guys have all gotten drunk together

Oscar's kind of the straight arrow Dancin's probably done some things And they're all they're kind of making sure That he hasn't gone down the road with Kathleen Turner But they kind of know he has They know Yeah and they just have to cat and mouse it I think that's a really good scene

He's good in it where he flips it He's like she just came into a lot of money I'd be stupid not to pursue that It's like this is your move Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting that he always thinks that he... That he's the smart one. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. But she says to him at the beginning of the movie. Like, you're not too smart, are you? Or whatever. Everybody says it. Everybody says it. It's one of those movies. The 70s are full of this kind of thing where, like, everybody has, everybody knows

something about the main character that the main character does not seem to understand about himself. The last year I ever dancing telling Ned what's going on. and Ned just started to get that look on his face like, oh my God, this is kind of my worst nightmare, but I didn't think this was actually maybe happening, but now it's... Where do you guys stand on watching people lie in movies?

Even though it's a real... I feel I get as squeamish about watching people lie in movies as I do about having people... Yeah, I don't want them to get caught. Yeah, I'm like... It stresses me out. I don't like lying in any art. because I am being let in.

I'd rather watch 10,000 murders than see one lie. Wow. Because there's something about lying. It's so human and we all have done it. Yeah. And to watch someone perform lying. And for us to know that they're not telling the truth, it's so interesting.

And to watch how casual William Hurd is lying in this movie. Right? We don't know when Kathleen Turner's lie. lying. We know she's probably not telling the truth, but we don't know when. We don't realize everything's a lie. We know everything. We know every time he's lying because he's not lying to us. He's lying to other people. Yeah. And it's just so, it's such a, like, subtle element of stress in this movie. It's a great point. And like the fact that the long con from the Maddie character, you know, we start to have some questions like,

the minute we see her. Pretty early on in the movie, certainly earlier than Ned, but you're piecing it together. Data point after data point, after data point, your suspicions are mounting, your anxiety is mounting

your heart and stomach are clenching. But we don't totally know until like two-thirds of the way through, three-quarters of the way through, whereas every time Ned is lying, we not only know, but we see how clumsily he's navigating those conversations.

There's another thing, though, that is an additional stressor for me, which is often the people he's lying to know he's lying. Yeah. And it's just it's just the worst. Can I flip this around even more? Oh, sure. I think this says more about you and then also me listening to you. Like, you're a good person. So when you watch people lie in a movie, it makes you uncomfortable because it's somebody like, there's some sort of human breach, right?

Yes. Whereas I watch it and I appreciate the. lying. Does that make me a bad person? Oh boy. I'm like, whoa, good liar this guy. But I'm not horrified. I just think you're a nicer person. I just feel like lies always wind up coming back. No, you're right. You never get away. It's hard to get away with a lot. It's like Tony Montana once said. I only have two things. My word and my balls. Yeah, well. I don't break either of them. The big boat house scene and then the island ending. The boat house scene. Well, the boat house scene, I think is rewatchable because

There's, it's nitpick central. Oh, sure. And we'll go to that later. Also, speaking of lying. But holy shit, it's like, wait, what's going on? And let's do that later. What do you have for most rewatchable? Throwing the door through the play class front door?

What do you got, Mal? Oh, God. I would also throw the Marianne Gizbo scene in the mix. Oh, yeah. That's a great one. That's a great one. But yeah. Yeah, and that's a fun one to revisit.

I had the yearbook flipping at the end, very satisfying. Oh, God. I think my favorite scene is that first teddy scene, but I don't know if it makes sense to pick it because it doesn't involve the two central characters together. Yeah. It's a tough one. I'm probably going when they're at the bar together

with the losers leering at them and just everything that happens in that scene, I think, is really good. I enjoy watching it. I think there's one you didn't mention that I like. What? Did you mention the, what did we talk about the first scene? The first scene between the two of them? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. I think that's number one. Because, you know, do you, like, do you want to lick it off me? I want you to lick it off me? Yeah. That's probably my pick, too, that first. Also, there's another great exchange there. And when he's like, I need someone to love and take care of me and hold me and be there for me.

And she's like, get married. It's so good. And he's like, I meant for tonight. Yeah. And she laughs. She's like, oh, this guy's great. I love that. I picked the right.

This guy's great. I can't wait until he goes to my husband and then I set him up for murder. What's age the best? Oh, boy. The constant themes of fire, heat, and sweat in Miranda Beach. This movie starts out with a fire. There's more fires later. Things are blowing up the whole time.

Everyone's sweating. They know what he's doing. I really like the, there's like 10 minutes there when the affair heats up. And it was what we were talking about is there's a lot of before and after. And there's just like different levels. the nakedness. It's just really nicely done. The score was done by John Barry. I thought that was good.

Yeah. You know, I got to talk about cars. The 1964 Corvette Roadster. It's great. William Hurts driving around. Beautiful. And the movie knows it. It knows... It's a good character. It actually makes it a character.

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because in Big Chill, he has a Porsche. That is also, like, kind of a character in the movie. This is the thing about William Hurd, right? Like, I mean, there's something about his seeming moniedness the idea that this character went to

FSU is fascinating like what did he do at FSU I think there's just William Hurt is like I mean the opening shot of the movie he is having sex with this woman it's like a Tennessee Williams play and he says

there's a fire across the way and he says my whole history is burning right now or burning up out there And, I mean, immediately we are put, I mean, I, I at least am like, oh, I'm watching, I'm watching a white man suffer. This is, this is some ancient family shit that he is seeing slip away. The movie doesn't even acknowledge any of this, by the way. But it clearly, at least in this particular, unless he's lying again, like, there's something underneath all this, like, he's obviously Southern then.

Right, which I don't know how to feel about that William Hurd because he's like pure New England to me. But there's something about the movie opening in that way where there's like some connection between him and wherever this place we're going to be is. And the way everybody knows him. Yeah. And even that she is in this different town. So there's the sense of him like reaching into a sphere of society that he doesn't have access to typically. where nobody knows him. Exactly.

And he doesn't know everybody. And that opening with the fire and the history, like this, not the subtlest harbinger, but still an effective one that this is a person who is about to self-immolate before our very eyes.

Wood's age the best, gazebos and boathouses. Oh, it's great movie characters. Absolutely. So many great gazebo scenes in the movies. So many. Double cock grab in this movie? Oh.

twice what's the other one when he's they're just lying in bed and she goes right under the sheets that's the one I remember oh the leading yeah yeah yeah yeah the other one's by the window where she pulls him yeah so apparently there's a wider shot there's an open

open mad version of this where she's clearly holding his dick as she's pulling him that you can't see on the whatever the TV thing I got pre-chairs Ted Dansen as a what's age the best oh yeah pre-samie Malone. He's wonderful. He's in a

different movie. He's having a blast. He can see his bald spot at one point. He's just, he has no idea he's about to be the biggest TV star of the world. Yeah, I mean, it's, there's just, like, he's, he's great. Like, again, he's, I don't know what movie he's in. He's like in a musical.

He's dancing all the time. He's, like, jumping on the hoods of cars. Well, a lot of this movie is a bad play, right? There's a lot of just like, like, if I were going to the theater in 1981, this might be a thing I would see. Like some of this movie is a thing that would be on stage like the LA Playhouse or whatever.

I have the quote, when it gets hot, people try to kill each other. Not untrue. I don't know if you've ever been in like 90. 99, 100. Yeah, it gets hot. Wow. Ebert's talking about the smart dump thing

and he says, it's important that the man not a dummy. He needs to be smart enough to think of the plan himself. One of the brilliant touches of Kazdin's screenplay is the way he makes Ned think he is the initiator of Maddie Walker's plans, but he's actually not.

Yeah, he's just being incepted. It's great. Duped. Great stuff. Another would stage the best. Awkward three-person dinners. I like that scene a lot. When they have to pretend they don't know each other, but now you have to eat and what is that about?

I like those. You don't like those? I don't believe this one. Like what, who, I mean, I wrote this down. Come join us. Does a husband really, really ever ask another man to join him and his wife for dinner? A stranger? Yeah, 1981 and Miranda Beach. I just don't.

But Richard Crenna, who when she gets up to go to the bed, when she's like, oh, I guess I just have to go talk about pantyholt's with these girls that don't exist. Right. And they're stuck at the table together. The first thing he says is I'm a kill a motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah. It comes near my wife. Yeah.

Like... And then I'm going to go find John Rambo. Richard Crenet, but let me just say. I'm the only person really, I mean, Mallory. Like, I don't know if you want to walk this plank with me. But it's 1 a.m. Your doorbell rings. Okay.

It's Richard Crenna. Do you let him in? Are you asking Mallory if she finds Richard Crenner attractive? No, it's beyond that. It's deeper. Deeper? Deeper. How?

No, 9th November is really Starling out of control. But this is what they gave us in the early 80s. Think about who we were being asked to think about as alternatives to William Hurt. Richard Crenna. Richard Crenna. Like, think about American Gigolo and like what Bill Duke's function is in that movie.

Bill Duke is the one who's having all the sex. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like Richard Crenna is Kathleen Turner's husband. I don't care why she married him. He's going to have some expectations. and they're obviously doing it because they do it once in the movie. Well, and because she needs to keep him in the room longer

because they've got the scheduled timing when he's going to go downstairs. Good lingerie scene. Understood. But I'm just saying, I have always found Richard Crenna very attractive whether he's wearing a beret or a pair of dumb glasses.

Just let it keep it moving. I respect the take. Oh! Yeah, why not? Mallory's not walking out there with me. That's fine. No, I love it. Okay.

I think it's great. I don't need you to do. doesn't agree. More for me. More for me. I love it. Any other words, age the best? I think there's a great moment.

There's a kind... What is age the best that you can see in this movie is a kind of lightness? There are all these great little touches in this film. And one of them happens early when the two of them are picking each other up and he goes into the mend room

to get a paper towel to wipe the... But he'll never get it off her dress. But to get the water ice off her dress. And there's a kid in there. And he's smoking in the bathroom. It's just the randomest thing. Like, what's that kid in there doing? Is he hiding from his parents and having a cigarette?

Is he waiting for the right guy to come in to, like, have his own body heat? Like, and hurt turns around and says something to him. I couldn't catch what it was. But it was like, it was something, like, it was something familiar. Right? Because again, this guy knows everybody. You think it was like Miranda Beach is a little lit?

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a kid smoking in the bathroom. But I think that kid was waiting for something. Like, he was either hiding or waiting. And, like, then we never see him again. And she's gone when he comes out. It's just a great little moment. And this movie is full of things like that,

like the stuff with the waitress. You know, all that writing with the sassy waitress. Yeah. Who eventually isn't there anymore. Right. old stella's. Yeah. With cherry pie that clearly is blueberry pie.

So it's getting ahead of picking nits. Good nip. Yeah. Yearbooks, you know? Yeah. Your book's really coming through. Your book goes through in the clushier. Can you send a letter from jail for a yearbook and they'll just send it to?

I guess so. A photo. The true name. Your intention to become a con artist right there as a mission statement. That's deep. That's deep. It's really. real deep.

I think the setting, too, because, like, isn't there something about how this was going to be in Jersey? Like, can you imagine this movie in Jersey? I can. On the shore? On the Jersey shore? There's something, I guess, like, you know, I'm from Maryland, so there's a humidity in the mid-Atlantic, certainly, but there's something about- It's gothic.

There's a gothicness. Yeah, I don't know. There's something about, like, the thickness of the air that feels like it just, like, has to be Florida. Yeah. My only other Wood Sage the best was how many movies since have just kind of stolen from this movie. Even like the

sweatiness factor, you know, like wild things was that Matt, that goofy Matt Dylan Phine Richards movie, Neff Campbell, Kevin Bacon.

But it's like, it tries to do the same thing. It's, we're in Florida, it's fucking sweaty here. People get horny. But that movie knows that body heat exists.

That's what I mean. Right. People, it's grabbing from it. Heaven's Prisoners with Baldwin another in New Orleans. Oh, no.

Terry Hatcher. It's like, give a nice big sweat patch on his back. Let's take a break and we've got to hit some more categories. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big, let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I got to say,

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How, like, short it is. I just, they don't make hotel bars like that anymore. It's like the eight-seaters. Yeah. With, like, just little corners and little nooks and crannies to it. Yeah. Really enjoy it. The diner.

Diner's good, too. Yeah. I like his apartment, I think, is really cool, too. Yeah. Yeah. Just really made sense that was this. The Great Shot Order Award for the most cinematic shot. I like the ending I thought was cool

With how it turns around and you can kind of And it reveals like Oh we're in like Hawaii or Mexico Oh she fucking did it but they don't reveal it right away She's just on a chair Yeah And then it tilts and then you can see the background Did this movie invent that shot?

The cutaway to the beach getaway? Maybe I mean they still in trading places like two years later I don't remember I mean I'm sure that somebody will rate To one of us and be like well actually Here's 15 before 1921. But like, it's such a cliche now. Like, White Lotus is essentially the whole show is the getaway, right? Like, it is literally the retreat away from whatever crimes we've committed in some other place.

The other great shot Gordo is probably the door through the chair when it cuts to her when she's just in there. And she looks like she's just been electrocuted. And she's kind of waiting for him to make a move. I like how that's filmed. I would offer, there's a shot when he is waiting for the bomb to go off. And he's in the car and he's looking in the rear view mirror. But he's also looking at himself. Yeah.

It's just, I mean, this isn't like the best shot movie. Yeah. But there are some good shots in it and that is one of them. Where Hurt is doing two things. He's doing two kinds of looking at the same time. And I love it. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for the Week of the film you mentioned earlier. The very obvious child actress, as the niece.

It just nab from a soap opera. She's the worst. The Mallory Rubin Award, did this movie need a better sex scene? I mean, the sex scenes in this movie are definitely a what's age the best. Yeah, so we're going to say now, wow. Right? What's age the worst? the Ned's beard at the end

as you know I hate nothing more than fake is it fake I can't tell it looks like they I think it's real I think it's a real beard I just don't know what are we doing here and then we don't need to go into it but there was some some tough William Hurt stories

post death maybe not the most awesome guy no what it's like what yeah that's whatever okay Ron Burgundy Flute Award best time for a P-Brand I have an unusual answer for this one.

I think after the murder, the whole process of dumping the dead body and setting up the arson could have been such a more fun four minutes. You could pee, not miss anything. It's like, hey, Ned dump the body, go make some popcorn. I didn't need it either. Was there a better title for this movie, no? No. Best quote, you're not smart.

I like that in a man. It's pretty tough to top. It's kind of the theme of the movie. movie. What do you have? It's not, hey, lady, you want to fuck? Poetry. No? Hey, lady, you want to fuck? It's emergency time. Oscar says that.

Oscar says that to I can't wait to talk about it, Oscar. My actual pick is the one you mentioned already in the initial meeting, the get married. I just need it for tonight. Stephen A. Smith-Hattis take a word. here are our best actress nominees that year No Catherine Hepburn wins for on Golden Pond

No comment Diane Keaton for Reds Marsha Mason Only when I laugh Get the fuck out of here Susan Saran at Atlantic City fine Merrill Street The French Lieutenant's woman fine

I get my girl Kathleen in there Marsha Mason take a hike Oh Take hike Don't do that to Marsha Mason Take hike Only when I laugh Get out of here

You think that should be an academy award nominated acting performance. I didn't say it was a warm take. I said it was a hot hottest take. I'm blown away. Hotest take. All right, Marsha. Wow. Okay. I fucking loved her in this.

I like Marsha Mason in that mediocre movie, but go on. I think Catherine, wait, what am I doing? Bye Catherine Hepburn. Get out of here. You know, what are you doing? A fourth Oscar? A fourth Oscar? Legacy Oscar.

A fourth, for a person who's Already got three. Yeah. Get out of here. No way. Bye. There's just an atrocious casting what-f for this movie. Christopher Reeve.

Woo-wee! Was offered the role of William Hurd's character. Yes, Daddy. Turned it down and said he didn't think he would be convincing as a CD lawyer. He knows his shit. Superman can't do that. Superman, who, by the way, Christopher Reeve is the person who told me I was gay. Told you?

Oh, I mean, he told me. He straight up, he came into my living room. Oh, I said. He didn't actually tell you. Gotcha. I mean, listen, he actually told me. Came into my living room in 1980, whatever the, whatever the name. Superman came on.

It was the ABC Sunday Night movie. whenever the first time that was I was there for it and I knew I was probably four years old and I watched that movie and I was like there's no going back I will dabble with the ladies I love Margo Kidder

I loved Margo Kidder but I knew that there was something especially in Superman 2 when Valerie Perrine like gets him in the water and he's like he's weak and she's trying to like

she's cheating on Lex Luthor to, like, get him back to life? Valerie Prine, by the way. Great looking. Oh. But it was clear to me, and there was no turning back after that. I was upset for life. So Christopher Reeve, but he would have been a disaster.

No, it's a bad one. No. You had any overacting? Because I didn't. I actually think this movie's really well acted. Unless you want to say the little, the niece. I think Mallory's going to go around. What do you got, Mallory?

Go ahead. Just trap it. Want a proper setup? This is the Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge Overacting Award. I'm Crenna? I think it's Richard Crenna.

Yeah. It's my man, Rich. He's got his big, dramatic stage. I would kill a motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. All right, he wins.

It's too much. I can't wait for this next one. The Best That Guy Award goes to Oscar, a.k.J. Preston, the judge in a few good men. I believe I've earned it.

You will address me as judge. Yeah. I mean, Curva Jessup. He's wonderful in this movie. He's great. Like, what a great part. And I went in his IMDB,

and he just got shit parts for all the 80s. I mean, there probably were no parts, but I was like, how is this guy just in, like, Cojack, Vegas, Quincy? Like, he's just doing the fucking rounds. It always makes me wonder

why the directors who hire actors like this, especially black actors who are good and get to go really deep into a movie that could have cast anybody in them. Yeah. Why those people don't keep working with that director? The story could be anything. But why doesn't somebody be like,

wow, Oscar was good. Let's get him in something else. Instead, he's just... I don't know. But I'm telling you, that's the way racism in Hollywood works. Like, were you just... Yeah. Like, that guy had a meaty, meaningful part

in a hit movie and didn't get anything out of it. Is it racism? At least back in the 80s. Is it racism or is it just a lack of parts that people would even think of J.A. Preston for?

That is the racism, Bill. That's the racism. Like, he, there's nobody even taking a chance on casting this guy in anything. Like, Ted Danson has, I mean, Ted Dantin goes on to become Dead Dantin.

Right. I'm not saying that, like, Ted Danson didn't deserve whatever he got. But it's clear... Like this guy couldn't have been the third lead in Nightcourt? But...

Okay, well, now you're just being mean. No, I'm just saying. Like, he could have... Like, he could have taken Mars as Razz on Nightcourt or something. Add him in. Right, sure. Could add a fourth part.

But my point is, the idea that, like, that what happened to Ted Dantin happened to Ted Danson, happened to Ted Danson, and what will go on to happen to William Hurt and Kathleen Turner and Mickey Rourke. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Like... And then Jay Preston, ten years of... later, it's like, oh, cool, he's the judge. But the other thing is, I think he's probably 10 years older than everybody else in the movie because he was blowing around Hollywood for probably 10 years before that.

So, I don't know. I thought he was really good in this. He's really good. Not as good as Mickey Roark in his two scenes. Dionne Waiters Award winner, Mickey Roark. Mickey Roark. No brainer. Easily.

No brainer. Why, Mickey? Why do that to your face? When you have... Even I thought he was handsome. Oh, he was what a sex machine. Yeah. Like, I mean, Mallory, it's 1 a.m.

There's a knock on the door. Oh, now he's like, make it work in. Oh, yeah. Let's build an arson device together. And call me. Call me. You're on speed dial. I mean, what unbelievable.

You know what's funny is there weren't nobody in the 80s for everything that was wonderful about movie stardom in the 1980s. There was nobody that you really wanted. I mean, I will speak for me, and I will speak only for men. But there were very few people that you

wanted to have sex with. Adrian Line figured it out. Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I probably would have had sex with Michael Douglas, but I wouldn't. No, but I'm saying with Mickey. Oh, 100%. Yeah. He's like, I got this. I mean, Mickey Rourke is one of

the only people who was just, was just sex. Angel Hart was another one. I mean, as bad as that movie is, it was redundant in some way. As bad as that movie is iconic. We're talking about it. All right, Bill. My girl Lisa Bonnet. Listen, come on.

I'm here for a crucial, crucial mid-Aidies movie. What was his name, Louis Seifer? Louis Seifer. We can talk about Louis Seifer all day long. He wins for, shout out of it. That's a Ted Danson is in the movie too much to get DM waiters. What'd you have for recasting coach? Obviously, your girl, Sydney Sweeney, is Maddie.

Oh, yeah. Without question. No. They'd redo body heat. It's a wrap. You're not even having auditions. You're not calling anyone. Right.

You're not calling anyone else. Cindy clear out four months. Yeah. The movie is remade with her in mind for her. I would go a different direction. And I would take a risk because we all already. seen what it looks like with a Sydney Sweeney type in Kathleen Turner.

LePita Nyango. Too old? Too old? Yeah, she's like 40 now. Who cares? But she's like, she's gorgeous. It's got to be 20s. It's got to be younger wife. But Kathleen Turner seems 40. Yeah. That's the thing. I'm not watching a 28-year-old woman in this movie.

Wesley's right because there's something about being settled into a domestic life. This isn't fair. Because you know this is, you know I love Lupeed and Nwango, but she's too old for body. She's not. But he's right because. I don't know. Part of the con is I'm settled into this domestic life and I'm unhappy. Right.

And I need you to disrupt that with me. Not only that, but both these people seem much older than however they are, however old they are when the movie was shot. You could tell me Ned in this movie is supposed to be anywhere from 32 to like 50 and I would believe you. A hundred. Hard agree. That 28 years old for Kathleen Turner, I don't believe it. She's 40. Half-ass internet research. Who knows if this is true, but I read it. William Huron and Kathleen Turner wanted the crew to feel comfortable filming their love scenes so they lined up the crew and both actors introduced themselves to each crew member

but they were naked when they did this. Is that true? I was on the internet. What? Wow. The movie's final scene was filmed. I know if that's going to make the group feel comfortable. Yeah, comfortable is that the right thing?

I don't know if that's really what we're going for. I didn't know we were filming a key party. Is it called Body Key? I don't get it. Last scene was filmed on the island of Kauai Tunnels Beach. Wait, what about him? Who's playing him? William Hurt.

Yeah. Miles Teller. Oh. Miles. Interesting. I'll go with that. And Ted Danson tells the story in the DVD extras of Body Heat that right before shooting William Hurt came up to him and asked, do you trust me? And then grabbed him by the balls.

And then said, do you trust me? I think William Hart was kind of weird. What? Apex Mountain. Turner, no. I think it's remains in the stone. William Hurt. No.

No. I mean, he won multiple Oscars. Just one. I thought he went two. No, just Kiss of the Spider-Wan. All right. Well, he won an Oscar. Kazden,

probably big chill, right? Yeah. I think it's 83, because that's like a few years of this in a row. But you, could make the case because this is the directorial debut after the screenwriting success with these big... That he's got a lot of juice. Yeah.

And it's like, oh, you can do what you want. But big chills, a bigger hit. Big Chil is a big show. And it's an Oscar nomination. Yeah. It's like, what did you do this year? Yeah, it's got to be. Well, I wrote Revenge of the Jedi.

You might have heard of it. Return of the Jedi. And then... And I wrote directed at the big show. Yeah. With some of the finest younger actors that we have. I think it's good chill. Richard Crenna, it's either this,

first blood, or the rape of Richard Beck. First blood. TV movie. First blood. What's the rape of Richard? That was the actual TV movie he's in. You can go see it on IMDB. That was the title of the movie.

Is he the rapey? He was. He was, I think, a cop. What is this movie about? It's a TV movie called the Rape of Richard Beck. I saw it on his IMDB. Oh, we got to find out what that is. What's not?

1964 Corvette Roadsters Yeah Okay Chimes Apex Mount for Chimes You know what though Have chimes ever been used better to believe? You're right

But also I think you could Take that the other way And say they're like Chekhov's chimes Except they're not You think from the moment You see them

That they're gonna Oh someone will hear The intrusion at no That's great They don't come into play with the murder or the plot the way that they should. It's like his history burning. He should have been hiding out there, not downstairs. And when Edmund gets up slightly ahead of schedule, we should have had a jostle of the chime as the plotting and the pace of the murder is disrupted and everything goes to shit up there.

And then he's pushed off the balcony because I don't think just a couple, you have the wooden plank. I don't know. The murder, he's dead too quickly. I got to ask another question along Wait, we'll see this for nitpicks Yeah Early 80s South Florida, possibly I don't know what else was going on in the early 80s down there

Miami Vice hasn't happened yet The rule against perpetuities I think definitely at base mouth Yeah, great stuff I even Googled it A little Wikipedia page about it Oh, is there should be Yeah, a lot of information do you think tried that

after watching Unsuccessfully Best racehorse name I couldn't come up with one I had wind chime Wind chime Yeah but we just talked about the wind chimes So maybe I'll switch it up and go with the breakers

I like wind chime Breakers saw but winchime's good Picking Nits I've got a wait I've got one What do you got to see I'm going to say Maddie Walker A Philly? Yeah

Oh I like it What about Pine Haven? There are actually a lot of good resource names in this movie. That's almost more of a golf course. Pickin'its. Oh, boy. I just feel like they investigate Maddie

way more intensely after this disappearing husband. Also, we don't see the interrogation. She went to bars by herself. She was seen blowing a guy in her house by her niece. The Will story is extremely

suspect. Extremely suspect. It's so incriminating. So incriminating. Wild. And they're just like, nothing to see here. Who are the other suspects? They are looking into her, right? Like they are onto her.

Because that's Oscar is saying. He's like, bad news, right? Her husband was gone six months a year. Nobody seemed to think they liked each other. What about like all the guys who were like, yeah, she's coming to this bar? But I used to sit next to her and she booted me out. Yeah. Right?

And like, one drink at home because it's too quiet. guy came in and she slapped him. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is a big one. Okay. Oh, I hope it's what I think it is. How does Maddie make the boathouse explode without getting blown up? Well, this is an unanswerable question, right?

I had this an unanswerable question. This is why I posted 260 of these. Okay. I revisited a few key scenes, actually, because I was so, so thrown by this. Okay. And there's a. moment in the second Teddy scene where Teddy is revealing, hey, this woman came and asked me how to make a arson bomb, just FYI. But somehow the bonus has to blow up.

He says, when he's explaining the door rig, quote, there's a little delay. So it is canon inside of the film that there is a delay. And I felt slightly better after revisiting that. So she's got to be like, and then sprinting away. But it's still. And he could probably see her walking toward it. It's tough. Yeah, I don't know.

That's a tricky one. That's one. And then the other is, so she kills the other lady, I guess. Yeah. And puts her in the boathouse that then blows up. The housekeeper? No, the French. The identity switch.

The actual Maddie, Marianne, to us. So she's in the boathouse. But for how long? Is it a couple days? But these are unanswerable questions. Her body just decomposing in there. How did she kill her? Is my question.

How'd she kill her? And then why didn't they, when they did the autopsy, realized that she'd been dead for two days? They had the technology at that point. So just that like the movies need to keep her glamorous by not showing her do, showing her do any of these things. Yeah. But it's like, it gets, it does. It's sort of one of those like, don't think about it for too long or the entire movie unravels things because.

He basically has to go there that night. So she can blow up. Well, but she calls him about the, oh, the. glasses. I need you to get the glasses, right? So the time of us are what I want to talk about. Let's do it. No, keep going. If she, it is clear to us that she has had the other woman killed, has had Maddie slash

Marion killed. Because she has been found out. There's the handoff of the envelope, the money to try to buy her silence. Later, many scenes, the lawyer room scene, the follow-up conversations, etc. They can't find this person. When did she kill her? but if she's willing to do that, then why does she need Ned in the first place?

Yeah. That's the thing for me that I'm like... Because she needs a lawyer. She does need the lawyer. She needs a lawyer. But why bring him into the murder? She didn't need the lawyer ultimately. She did it herself.

This movie actually is weirdly in its... And then she leaves open the vulnerability of having told him about Wheaton, about where she grew up and I was doing drugs, I was on speed, and that's how he finds the yearbook, which presumably is going to get him out of jail and put them on her case.

She's so smart, but they never should have said where she went to high school. Well, that's actually my... She should have said, I went to high school in Anaheim. For the picking Nitz, she's supposed to be this mastermind who executes this long con, makes her, like, lures him into her trap

in the first place, but she goes to Teddy, the guy that he's close enough to to have confided in in the first place, which is like part of his great awakening, realizing what's happening here, and allows him to see, the device inside and not open the door.

So that's sloppy. Kastin's listening right now going, damn it, somebody's finally figured it out. Two major holes. What were your glasses thing? The glasses thing, like... He never took the glasses off ever. The point, I mean,

Oscar's right. Like, how could you forget to put the glasses in there with them? And how could you not forget to put him? Because Ned is an idiot. This is part of the Ned is an idiot thing. So when he's killing him, when they're tussling on the floor and he kind of pulls them off his face, you know, you know that Maddie watching from the top of the stairs, just like, I have to grab those the second he's out of the

room. And that's what I use to either frame him or out him for his role in this or lure him into the final trap to eliminate him. That's her final bit of leverage over him. And he's too dumb to even clean up after himself. He drives into a tree as he's escaping through the fog. This guy's an idiot. The description of the movie describes him as not so smart. It's hard to drive with a massive hard on at all times. He kept hitting the steering wheel. Oh, God. The biggest picking net is that I'm sorry, but it's 1981. Why does no one have air conditioning? I understand that the premise of the movie hinges on the fact that it's a terrible heat wave. Everybody is like miserable from the heat. It's a great one.

It is driving us to do crazy things to make irresponsible decisions. It is 1981. Yeah. It's Florida. Yes. People have air. Conditioning. Get a fan. Yeah. No fans. How did she just get the Marianne to just switch identities with her? Well, I think the implication is that she didn't.

And then Marianne, actual Maddie, found out. We see her hand like an envelope of money, which is just in the moment to give her a false sense of security. And then she kills her. But she sent her away. So basically, Marianne shows up and she says, here's this envelope of money. I need to disappear for a couple weeks and then come back and we'll talk about this. But not only that, she needs her to introduce herself as Marianne. Yeah.

What if Mariam is like, no, I'm actually going to go to the police. Thanks for the money. Well, but we learn they have this history. Right. What's the history? Little experimentation. We don't know. We don't know.

It's a little bit like. I think what's interesting is that actually when we hear about that, the slip up, when she reveals this backstory, the Wheaton high school years, this friendship with actual Maddie. it's after. We can tell for sure. It's after she has killed her based on where that is in the movie, that scene.

And so there's a guilt. There's a guilt surfacing. And like even that look on Maddie's face at the end as she has made her a great escape, she has gotten away with it except she hasn't because of the yearbook. It's like there's some longing there.

Right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't, I, I, there's so many plot problems here. The unanswerable questions list

is like 500, 500 long. Sequel, prequel, press, stage TV all black cast are untouchable. We rarely get to do this so emphatically. All black cast, run it back. Yeah.

100%. No brainer. Just fucking do it. Get it done. Lupita and Michael B. Oh. Yeah. Wow. Or if you want great acting. And Duane Wade as Richard Krena. It's Lupita and Daniel Kaluya.

Oh. Right? That is, that's where you get the powerhouse acting. Let's definitely get a British guy in here. Let's not give that part to an American guy. Oh, we're going there, are we? Yeah, we are. Okay. I want to take care of my country, Wes.

I'm tired of take care of these British people. I am mostly with you, but, I mean, Daniel Colillo is already proven that he can take the parts from Americans. Let him just keep having them. Yeah, fair. Is this better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Catherine Hahn, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Phil Bickr-Raw. We could have Sam Jackson in the Oscar part.

And I think he could have pulled it off. You mean in the original? In the original body heat. I think this movie is like, like, it's worse off without J.T. Walsh. Like, I can't believe J.T. Walsh isn't even in it. Why is it he in Richard Krenna? Why isn't he? I think Steve Bichemi could be the Richard Krenna character.

Yeah, he could be the husband. Yeah, where were, J.T. Walsh busy? Where were you, J.T. Walsh would have been a great Lowenstein, except, you know. Just one Oscar who gets it. I'm giving it to Turner. I don't care what you guys say. Okay. You guys can go to hell. She's great. Probably and answerable questions.

Boy. What do you got? We've hit a couple of them already in picking Nitz. I'm curious, like, how many people do you think Nett is fucked? Because just in the first few minutes of the movie, he's with multiple people. Yes. Multiple people. It's basically established in the Long Con Meat Quit, where he's being ensnared, that he has fucked every single person in the town.

Well, I mean, his opening. lying to her is, I've never seen you around here before. I would notice. I would notice. Exactly. It's like, I would have given you my dick long ago and I've seen you. So where have you been? I had it wrapped in everything.

Unbelievable. This is one of the more like sincere, unanswerable questions I've ever had. With respect, how did Ned pass the bar exam? I'm serious. How? Mallory. How? How?

He probably had Teddy the arsonist. He couldn't, I mean, I wouldn't put those ads on fire. His incompetence, his incompetence professionally as a lawyer. How did this guy pass the bar? I think, is it? I mean, here's how I received it, because I think a lot of the, my failure to wonder that has so much to do with William Hurt seeming smarter than Ned. You know, like there's sometimes when, you know, we were talking about.

Like, there's another rewatchables where we talked about Nancy Allen and who could have played her character in Body Heat. And the thing about a lot of actors is that they're smart, there's an intelligence that they have that you just, that they can't hide, right? Like, Jody Foster can't play a conventionally dumb person because she just is so seemingly intellectual, right? And so I just feel like casting William Hurt in this part is just it really does sort of belie how dumb net is.

Like you just don't really think about it except when Mallory Rubin gets to doubt. She's like, wait a minute. I want to see his bar score. We see him in the courtroom getting lectured by the judge and then the dance at Peter's like your incompetence has basically become your strategy

in the theater of law. It's unbelievable. He's like an NFL head coach. Okay. How many, and this would also be like a case for a prequel. Is he Brandon Staley? Former blogger? How many men has Maddie Kand before Edmund and Ned?

I don't think. We get the Edmund line at dinner. I think she put a lot of time into it. You never believe the dorcas she was with when I met her. Yeah. That guy was clearly a mark. Oh. Yeah.

How many people? Well, that leads me to... Oh, do we have more in noticeable questions? We've hit a lot of them. How did the other murder happen? How did she get away from the Boathouse? What you just said led me to the Andy and Red Zawatine Award for what happened the next day. Oh, yeah.

And this is where I ask, why didn't Body Heat 2 happen? Oh, wow. The 80s were when sequels became a thing. We had Black Widow with Teresa Russell and Deborah Winger. Why couldn't that have just been Body Heat 2 with Kathleen Turner? We're on to the next one. I'm going to... Bill, have you ever watched this movie with subtitles on?

No. Okay. This is going to make you even angrier that we didn't get body heat, too. The final stretch in Hawaii, there's like a man reaches over, we see a drink, she's there with someone. He seemed like he's like Spanish. What does he say? I don't know. He says it is hot.

The heat is back. People are going to start committing murder. again. Oh, yes. It's right there. Body Heat, too, Hawaii. Oh, my God. She's in Hawaii now and she's got another con. Look out.

The heat is back on. She made Crimes of Passion, which is a terrible movie. Yes. Well, Ken Russell, speaking of Ken Russell, like, you know, I mean, she's really... I don't know. Crimes of Passion is an interesting film, though. It's bad.

It's not the best movie. Give me body movie, too. In Kauai. Best feature choice for this movie. I have the big chill. I go body heat, big chill. Give me the Bill Hurt. Larry Cass, the doubleheader. Accidental tourist, right?

It's like the... Interesting that you go that route. No, because they're all back together again. I'm going to stick with Kathleen Turner, and I'm going to say something that's really going to annoy you, but crimes of passion. Okay. Crime's a passion on this movie. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

I'm taking the car. Oh, 100%. I'm doing the wind chimes or Edmund's glasses. I don't want anything from this movie. It's too wet. It's a sweaty shirt. Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. Just terrible advice from everyone in this movie.

Not a person made it out of this story. Life lesson is probably when there's 330 red flags with the person you can't stop bucking, maybe press the brakes. Yeah. Peter saying Ned, someday your dick is going to lead you into a very big hassle. He was right. Yeah. I'm like that. Also, I mean, just to repeat, oh, I'm sorry. I have a kind of improbable not so great one. You shouldn't wear that body. Terrible. Terrible. It's bad. Not so great. Terrible. It's bad.

You'd lose your job now if you said that. Awful. You lose more than your job. Who won the movie? Oh, Kathleen Turner. Yeah, for sure. Kathleen Turner. Yeah. No brain.

Craig Can you hear me? Yeah, what did you think of this movie? As somebody getting married in about eight months It's been tough during this whole Noddy November grappling with all these women just being miserable in their marriages Yeah Get used to it

This movie Was bizarre to me because the first hour of it in the last 30 minutes just feel like two completely different movies. I had never heard of this movie. I had never seen it. I didn't know what was going to happen. I try not to read the descriptions or watch the trailers going in.

And the first hour I was just kind of like exhausted and sweaty. And then it got very interesting at the end. And it came around to it. But, you know, I don't know what it was. I was talking to Bill earlier about this. Kathleen Turner didn't really do it for me. And I think that's why this movie didn't really do it. Whoa.

So this is Craig. Craig has resigned from the rewatchables. We've accepted his resignation. Wow. Wait, but Craig, say more. About Kathleen Turner? Doesn't like Kathleen Turner. She's too hot for his generation.

Too smoldering. I don't know. She just depicts a woman I have never met and I don't see anymore. I don't know anyone like that. He's anti-smoking. Craig, this is a neo-noirre erotic thriller. Not Brentwood in 2022. All right, fair point.

I have never buttled that. Craig's like, what's up with the smoking? That was disgusting. She had an ashtray. Can I pose a question to you guys? So now we've done four movies on Nottie November. Yeah. We've done like glossy L.A.

We've done gritty New York. Ooh. Old school Philly and now like Sultry, Miami. Yeah. Which city in the early 80s would you live in? Oh, my goodness. New York. What a great question.

No, no. I was in Philadelphia. It's the L.A. of American Jigling. I was in Philadelphia. American Jiglo. For that Philadelphia, that's in blowout. The New York,

New York, wet ass, inexplicably wet-ass New York. Yeah. In 1980. Late 79. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have that any other way.

Yeah. I'm going to pick the Los Angeles of American Jigolo where I can have a beautiful apartment, an oceanfront beach home, a incredible Mercedes convertible. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going with that.

Me too. I don't like sweaty and I don't like Florida. So that's the only definite cross-off. They say it's a dry heat in L.A. Nope. I'm going straight to ramrod, straight to the cockpit. The anvil.

Straight to the anvil. Even though I'm only five years old, I'm down. This was produced by Craig Horleback. Give me Lauren Hutton over Kathleen Turner. Oh, that's not a bad take. That's not a bad. Thanks to Wesley for joining us for most of

Neo-Nove, thanks to Miley Rubin for joining us for two. We have one more week in November, and I'd only plan four, so I don't know what's going to happen for Thanksgiving week. Is it responsible to put out a naughty November pot on Thanksgiving? Might not be. I don't know. I don't know. That would be the naughtiest, the naughtiest naughty November.

My apologies to dress the kill, which really should have been part of Noddy November, but got bumped for blowout. We didn't want to do two Topalma movies. That's fine. But we'll do it another time. All right. Good to see you. to see you.