The Rewatchables - ‘Broadcast News’ With Bill Simmons, Chuck Klosterman, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: March 12, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chuck Klosterman, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey deliver the hard-hitting facts as they rewatch the James Brooks directed comedy classic ‘Broadcast News,' starring Holly Hunter, William Hurt, and Albert Brooks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Apply. Chris, it must be nice to always believe you know better to always think you're the smartest person in the room. You should definitely be saying this to Sean. Broadcast news is coming up next. Oh, no. Ready BTR 1 and 2. Ready on camera one with Keith.

All remote, stand by, please. Okay, we're going to George. Say, the F-14 is one of the most difficult planes to master. Executive producer. Is there any particular area that you feel strongest? To be honest, I was best at anchor. I can't breathe. Oh, our guy.

I would give anything if you were two people. So I could call up the one who's my friend and tell her about the one. that I like so much. All right. So this movie came out in 1987 and it is fucking timeless. Sean Fantasy is here. Chris Ryan is here.

Special cast Chuck Closterman is here. We did reality bites with him. And it became clear he'd never listened to the podcast. I had no idea what we were doing. I know the format now. I'm very prepared today. You're very prepared to hammer all your rubrics. Okay.

Let's, uh, let's, talking about the movie first. It's incredible to me. I wouldn't touch much here. 32 years. I mean, yeah, there's some fashion. There's some, some stuff's a little dated. But for the most part, it's almost perfect.

We can talk about the ending at the end. Start with the Fantasy. What's your favorite thing about this movie? Ooh, it's definitely a top 100 screenplay of all time. It's also definitely has a case for best movie of the 1980s, which I think would be a fun thing for us to kind of break down a little bit. And it's a trifecta movie where all three of the main actors are kind of at the height of their powers. So you put all those things together.

I don't know. It's pretty indelible. Rocky 3 came out in the 80s. I just want to remind you. Yeah, a movie's fine. It's okay. Chuck, what was your favorite thing about the movie we were watching it? The tone of the movie is great.

It's extremely well written, but the tonality is the thing. It can be real funny at times, but it's not strictly a comedy. Yeah. You know, thinking about it walking over here today, there are some actual parallels in that three-way relationship with reality bites. Yeah. In many ways. I mean, and I just, it's odd that a movie that seems like it should only apply to the way media was at a very specific time

seems to appeal or apply to media throughout time. As recently as this week, you know? Yeah, I was shocked for you watching that how. The layoff theme and just everything about it and with them fighting this new era that's coming was so reminiscent of the stuff we're reading this week. People have been doing that since the 1920s. Yeah. I think for me it's that, you know, in your everyday life for most people, you usually have like a separation between your work and your personal life. There's like you have your job.

You have your life at home. But one of the things that kind of you can sometimes get if you work specifically in news, but in the media in general, is that, that feeling of like a kind of almost holistic idea that like your life is wrapped up in what you do in a kind of idealistic way. Yeah. That you every day have to deal with these decisions about what you're trying to say about the world, how you're trying to say it, the way you go about doing that. And that the people that you're with in your work life could actually be the most important

people in your life. And that that stuff that you talk about all day long is the actual important stuff. And granted, for a lot of these people, there creates a little. little bit of a hole when they go home at night, but that there is actual stakes to your life as you go through your day-to-day life. And that's the kind of amazing thing about the Jane character, you know, is that you just feel like she's constantly plugged into the life or death stakes of what she's doing for a living. It's funny, this movie comes out same here as Wall Street. Yeah. And that Jane character and the Gecko character, you could argue, are the two most

support characters in the 80s. Because when I was researched in the movie, Jim Brooks really wanted to make a movie with a strong female lead. And he felt like there was this thing that was happening now with feminism, for lack of a better word, where people in these really important

professional positions for the first time and being put in the same position that men had been in for decades and decades. So you have that. And you have on the other side that Gordon Gecko agreed is good. And you can kind of tell the 80s through those two characters, Sean.

And Rocky Bell Bow. And Rocky Belvo. Yeah, I mean, it's just that that cliched vision of the alpha 80s where people really have to, how to be in charge is like a theme of the decade. And they're just two sides of the same coin, you know, operating in completely different ways. You don't get the impression that Gordon Gecko ever wakes up in the morning and has himself a good cry before he has to get his day started. There's just nothing. This was only a year after Working Girl. And the whole thing of Working Girl is like, look, women can advance in the job too.

And then here comes Holly Hunter. Is Holly Hunter the only character in this movie based on a real person? I have to imagine that given the amount of research Brooks did and the amount of time he had spent in Washington and New York media circles that the other guys have some parallels. Well, and particularly like William Hercott, you wouldn't want to have your, you wouldn't want to say like this character is based on me if you were in news. I think he's a little Peter Jennings. That was going to say Jennings was the one. I think that there's a little Peter Jennings in his character. Because they always said, he used to say Jennings was never a rocket scientist.

Well, exactly. Jennings was sort of like, I guess, undereducated as the way that he was described. And he ultimately became kind of a great anchor and a very smart guy, also a ladies man. But so I think that there are some Peter Jennings. Albert Brooks, I don't know, there's probably any number of people that lived in Washington in the ages could have been Albert Brooks. Who do you think that Nicholson character was based on? Well, I mean, it was a kind of Cronkite idea. But the idea that the role he occupies in society is Cronkite-like, even though his personality, doesn't seem reflecting.

Rorsch also seems to be the editor of that. He's like the editor-in-chief of the news. So like he cuts the 20 seconds off of the South American. Oh, yeah, yeah. So it seems like he has the managing editor. Yeah, he seems like he has like editorial influence beyond just news reading. Yeah, jumping out to me watching this again was just the star power. Like really famous people at the top of their games.

And then like Nicholson just strolling in for a couple. scenes just randomly. Oh, there's Jack Nicholson. Only listed in the end credits famously. They didn't sell the movie with him at all. Yeah. And then Jim Brooks must have that was the second time he'd worked with him, but that was another role in terms of Endearment when he's not totally

in it. But this is, if Holly Hunter doesn't work in this movie, we're in trouble. And I don't want to step on casting what ifs, but I'm going to because it's an amazing what if, but Deborah Winger was cast for this movie and got pregnant. And they had to remove her from the movie and scramble for replacements, which

we can talk to, but I don't know if this movie works with Deborah Winger. I don't, I had too much of a history with her, and she'd kind of been in too many movies in the 80s. And I think part of the thing I like about this movie is I didn't really know Holly Hunter at all until this movie came out. I remember like, who is this? She's tiny. She's fucking seems crazy, but she's awesome and she's passionate. Like, I'd just never seen an actress like that. I could imagine Deborah Winger being in this movie and being good, but she wouldn't be Holly Hunter in this. And it's hard to sort of think of this movie in any way without her

specific personality. And like, you know, it's... So I think someone else probably could... Like, this is such a well-written movie. I think a lot of people could have succeeded in almost any role. Yeah, like 90%. I feel like I say this a lot in the last couple of rewatchels,

but you could definitely see Harrison Ford doing the William Hurd role. Although... Or Luke Wilson, maybe. If Luke Wilson is in broadcast news, is it a better movie? We often talk on this pot about great ears that people had. It's really worth mentioning Holly Hunter's

87 because she does this in Raising Arizona. And I mean, I find I think she's one of my favorite actresses and one of the cool things about her, she's popped up in a couple of rewatchables, the firm. One of the cool things about her is how she, I'm sure not cool ultimately to her because it just means that she

maybe stopped getting the great lead rules. But she's transitioned to like this amazing character actor over the corner back like sort of the last 10, 15 years. But she's just such a dynamite leading actress to have all this screen time and you just kind of ride with Jane the entire time. And it's also

a character that people in my life have reminded me of over the years. It's rare when you have the movie character where it's like, oh, she's kind of like Jane. She's just little too into the work. I can really relate to Jane Craig.

It's a very... I settle down a little bit. Also, you know, in a weird way like, her size works to her advantage. It's seen at the end when Joan Cusack, who looks 11 feet tall, is hugging her. And there's something about the, kind of the energy she has in that

small package. It would be, it's like it's so great, she's diminutive. Yeah, she looks like, it's like Chris Paul going into the pain or something. Because the same thing of William Hurt. William Hurt seems like he's 6'5 in this movie. And they're in these scenes and they have sexual attention, but she's always looking up at him. And it's like this weird

parallel to kind of what her position was. probably to, you know, trying to work her way up. Everybody who gets laid off in that scene is a white guy except for Joan Kusack. Yeah, which is maybe not necessarily accurate to how things always work out. Especially in the 80s, yeah. Well, although what percentage of that newsroom would have not been white in that period? Yeah, you have, there's basically two women. The William Hurt part of this, I felt like he was an icon in the 80s.

I was trying to explain this to my wife last night because she was like, I'm actually not very familiar with him. so interesting to talk about in general. So I went back. I'm like, so he must have been on stuff and leading up to, I remember, eyewitness. His first movie ever was Altered States, which was like a really cool movie. One of my favorite movies, yeah. I think 1980, his first three movies, he's the lead in each one. Doesn't have a movie where he's like, oh yeah, he's in there. He's the little brother. His career starts with Altered States. Goes to Body Heat, which I think for movie directors is like one of those movies, like the Soderberg types.

Body eats like one of their movies that they point to. I witness where him and Sigourney Weaver in there, those are the first three. Eye witness is a little forgotten a time. That's a cool movie too. Also a movie about TV news. Sigourney Weaver plays a reporter and he plays, I think, a janitor. Yeah, that's a good one. So nice start.

And then from 83 to 85, he just rips it off. He makes five movies that are nominated for Best Picture. Big Chill. Kisses the Spider-Roman, Children of Lesser God, broadcast news, accidental tourists. He had three best actor nominations, and he won for Spider-Woman. Those were the first eight years of his career.

It's like, I didn't even know how to compare that to anything. I mean, it's Brando. Like, there's just very few people who have had, who had that kind of concentrated five to 10-year period where they were suddenly became the most important actor in Hollywood for almost a decade. Turns down misery, turns down Jurassic Park, And the part starts to get weird.

Yeah. And it's done. I feel like Nicholas Cage happens to him. Like basically Nicholas Cage comes along in 92. I mean, 90 is wild at heart. He's in some other stuff before that. Obviously, he's in Raising Arizona. I mean, 87 is also the year of Moonstruck.

Yeah, he's in 87. He's got Moonstruck and Raising Arizona. And the kinds of the like great looking leading man with, like a real eccentricity thing becomes Nicholas Cage instead of William Hurt. I had a different guy for this. I was going to, you're talking about a market correction. Yeah. One of our favorite rewatchables topics.

I think it was Jeff Bridges. Hmm. Oh. Like William Hurt should have been in the vanishing. He would have been really good in the vanishing, but Jeff Bridges is in the vanishing. But like William Hurt and blown away, like basically every Jeff Bridges movie could have been a William Hurt. The other one to talk about is just because their careers are almost tied together is

Costner because Costner's supposed to be in the big chill. he's supposed to be... Well, he is in the big show. Well, he's technically in the picture. His porpoil form, yeah. But, you know, you could see William Hurton Field of Dreams. Yeah. You know what I mean?

But, like, you could, I don't know if he could have done Bull Durham, but, like, you could kind of see him doing a bunch of the Kossner rules. I wonder, do you think he was, like, difficult to work with or something? Are you being sarcastic? He is notoriously difficult to work with. Oh, so that's what happened. He is incredibly intellectual and strange, and people found him very chilly. I mean, you know, I'm not sourcing this necessarily, but I've heard many, many,

many stories and read stories over the years about that. He is quite tricky to work with. Now, he still has, like, a very active career. He's in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You know, like, he is still doing stuff. He's great on damages. I don't know if you guys saw him. Yeah, he was a great working actor, but, I mean, he was, he was in the conversation with Kevin Costner in terms of leading men in that time. And that's gone. Well, I would say in the 80s, he was, that was probably the most successful decade any actor had. Yeah, I mean, there's a handful of people. Yeah, I mean, Harrison Ford, Michael Douglas, there's a handful of guys in that time, and he was

right there with him. Yeah. Douglas leaned into the 90s. I guess the decades didn't flip. Harrison Ford's a good one. It's also, it's a different thing when you're the leading man because it's not like being a great character actor where your acting shops are really what matters. When you're the leading man, a lot of times, the limitations of what you can do and what

you can't do are really inflexible. So, like, when you talk about him, like, Brando, I don't think of him that way. Although, when you describe it, like, I don't view his career this way. Obviously, it was. He never seemed as famous in that way. Like, I'm not saying he wasn't famous. But he never seemed famous in that way. It's, like, almost like he had good taste in the kind of movies that win awards.

Yeah. Like, he had a sense for that. I really liked his big show character. I thought that's one of my. favorite characters, Nick, the drug addict, the impotent drug addict who, I don't know, I just love that guy. And it's interesting that he's so different than the broadcast news guy, which I think is a really hard character, because he's got to be dumb, but he also has to be like cagey smart. The three of them have just, their characterizations are so no perfect.

And he's got to be able to read the news in a way where I'm like, oh, I get it. That guy's awesome, which I think is a hard thing. I have so many favorite scenes in this movie, but my favorite one by far as when he tutors Aaron about reading the news because it gets across exactly what you're describing where he is showing him a sort of tips and a sort of narcissism that he has trained himself with over the years that illuminates something inside of his brain that he otherwise couldn't put down on paper. You know, if he had to write that down, he couldn't get it going. But when they're sort of ending that conversation and they're out in the hallway, he has this kind of focused intensity about what the news, reading the news actually is. Yeah. Yeah. It is very smart,

even though it's not intellectual. Here's a question I wanted to ask you guys. Now, we're kind of working from the premise is like, this is kind of perfect. We don't want to make alterations. But how do you feel about the initial three scenes where we see them as children? Do you think that's an essential part of this? Or would you have considered lopping that off?

I personally would have considered lopping that off. That's like the most 80s part of this. Yeah, I would have two. I think that that part and the very conclusion would be the two things. I know when we go through these like, like, wait for the categories, Chuck. Like, what doesn't hold up? That does really place it in at that time.

That's like, here's these people as kids, hear them years later. I find it. But the thing I was to say in the defense of having that there is does it sort of allow the audience to be like, okay, when I'm introduced to these characters, I already have an understanding of what we assume that experience as a kid,

lead to because there's all the exact, like, this movie implies that the way you are at eight is the way you are forever, you know? Well, that's an interesting thought because what stuck out to me rewatching it most recently is even though this movie got seven Oscar nominations and it's people at their apex and doing great stuff and Jim Brooks kind of leaning into becoming one of the best directors in Hollywood, it still is basically a sitcom, you know, or like a great dramatic sitcom. and those opening three segments and even the kind of epilogue at the end

are very sitcom-y, you know, the like putting the title, you know, the future Washington news reporter kind of Kiron on the screen and the way that they set up the punchlines and the pacing and the timing of everything. It's like it's a good, really good version of a sitcom and it was at a time when if you did a sitcom well,

it could be as good as anything. Obviously, Jim Brooks, Norman Lee, or all of those people made that in art form. But I kind of like the tempo that it sets for the movie that's coming. You know, if you just just, jumped right into it, I think you would have felt like it was trying to be too dramatic in a way. Right.

With her grabbing the newspapers and then crying and then calling it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it would have had to have been something to establish the idea that people find this guy attractive and he's not smart. So you would have had to put him in a scene where he was almost humiliated in a way. Whereas the idea of being humiliated as a little kid by waitresses who think you're cute, that's not really humiliating. Like, it's your comments like the dad, it's like, you should be happy that happened. You just don't know it yet.

I'm pro those scenes because they felt very kind of tied to that decade to me. Like, I'm glad they exist. I think if you made the movie now, there's no question those get cut. But that's just kind of what we were doing in the 80s. The other thing about this movie that's so brilliant is how closely it cues to the perspective of the three main characters. And we don't ever go anywhere that they don't go. Which I think is often the challenge when you're making something like this because you want it to feel bigger than it actually is. But these are essentially people in a room trying to decide.

how to report on something. And while they do go to the jungle and they do go find that guy outside of the bus station, when they do Tripoli, when they do the Libya stuff, they don't go anywhere. Like, it's like just all decision making inside of a room. And that's like the brilliance of this movie.

I don't know if they made it now. They'd probably have somebody on their way to the air base in Sicily or whatever. You know what I mean? Like they would have someone on the scene and there would be stakes would be like, is he going to die? The director would want the big battle scene.

But Jim Brooks could have given a shit. He just wanted the dialogue and the people playing off each other. And also probably thinking of it as like these confined places because that's basically the movie is. Like the Albert Brooks apartment, which he's given an interview about where he said, because that scene is the most important scene in the movie, and he needed a scene where the locations could move with the characters. So it would be like going that kitchen, the little nook, the living room,

she could leave. But the camera could follow them around. He said he was scouting and scouting. outing forever trying to find the right place that had those kind of things. Great apartment. It's like a D.C. townhouse basically? Classic. Yeah.

Let's talk about him for a second. It's like, his IMDB is staggering. I think it's the number one staggering IMDB. Jim Brooks or Albert Brooks? Jim Brooks. Jim Brooks. You go through and it's like he writes for basically every relevant 60s show. Then he creates Mary Tyler Moore show, which then spawns Roda and Lou Grant, which he also created.

He creates taxi. He writes starting over. which is like my stealth favorite Bert Reynolds movie, terms of a dearman broadcast news is as good as it gets. Also produces big, say anything, War of the Roses,

Jerry McGuire, and Bottle Rocket. Yeah. There's the five, like, no misses. He goes five for five just like with, can I help you with that movie? And then the Simpsons.

Oh yeah, the Simpsons. And that's like the first from the 60s all the way through the 90s. That's his career. I mean, that is like, that batting average, P.R.

or whatever advanced metric we're using, it's the highest. And he's a Clippers fan. And he's a clip. So that's how God got him back. God's like, fuck this guy. We're not making him a lacquer fan. When you read a little bit about the making of this movie

and you read about him like interviewing Susan Zorinski who winds up being the model for the Holly Hunter character. And now she's on CBS News. And he had spent so much time talking to these people that everybody thought that he was making a movie about them. There was like a bunch of people were like, oh yeah, he's going to make, it's about a lobbyist and it's going to be about me. And he was really just gathering information. And it speaks to like, his success must have

just bought him the comfort of time. You know, he is not like super prolific when it comes to movies. He tends to make, four years between movies. And I think that it basically allows him to be like, yeah, I'm going to spend like a, what, like a couple years hanging around New York and Washington and learning every single thing I can about what it's like to be in this business. And then all of that stuff goes through the. filter and if it winds up helping but it never winds up being like I'm cramming all this like research into the movie

it's always like a function of the people in a room together. Okay so you will know this like how long was this movie worked on? Four years. Because there's one really interesting kind of timing risk with it which is the Gaddafi stuff. Okay so this movie comes out in

87. Now I don't know if these are fact checked or not but I feel like it was like 85, 86 when the relationship with Libya was changing, there was like a bombing of a discotheque in Berlin in 1986, and a bunch of people got hurt, and two U.S. soldiers were at this club.

So we kind of puts this into the movie, you know, where they're dealing with this situation with Gaddafi. And it's not unthinkable that we could have started a war with Gaddafi in 1987. I don't know what you'd do with this movie if that happened. So he'd have to go backwards and pretend the movie. his set in like 86 or something. Well, even Albert Brooks's read on Gaddafi is not what I think we think of as him.

Exactly. It's very balanced when he's just like, he's not rothing at the mouth. He's like a real player. I thought reading about his process about what Chris was saying about how he would take pieces from these different people and one of the things he said was he cared so much about authenticity.

If he heard a story, it just wouldn't be like, oh, this guy I'm going to put that in. He would want to make sure he heard something similar from three or four people. And then he would put it in? If people want to read more about the relationship between Jim Brooks and Susan Zerinsky, they should definitely read Haley-Emletek's piece on the making podcast. When did we run that a year ago?

Yeah. And it's just, it's so good. The piece is fantastic. But it's got that stuff where I think that he tried to introduce himself to Zirinsky during a presidential convention. And she was like, I'm pretty much like, I'm busy. I'll talk to you later. And Leslie Stahl, who she was working with at the time,

was like, you're an idiot. That's Jim Brooks. Like, he's like making a movie about it. And he said that, people like us. Not to step on internet research, but the Holly Hunter character is based on this person he met in 84 when he was at these different conventions who was dating two guys at the same time who worked in TV.

He never said who it was. Maybe it would be like a deep throat thing. We'll find out after they died. But that was the basis. He was like, oh, that's something. and then it goes from there. And he was really cared about what was going to happen to news,

which is weird because I don't remember this being, obviously I was a teenager back then, but I don't remember this being a huge topic of what's going to happen to local news, but apparently it was. Well, there's like phases of TV news and films, you know, literally 10 years prior you get network and the anxiety of network is a lot of essentially

what comes to pass in broadcast news, which is about whether news can make money or not. And if it doesn't, what does that mean? What is the idea of truth versus the idea of show business? what's more important there and kind of the eminent domain of a for-profit television company and trying to create something

that is for a kind of national good that's kind of like a haughty idea but it's clearly important to Jim Brooks because he's trying to get at it. The whole layoff scene and I suspect that we all have a lot of thoughts about how it reflects the media now is all about that.

And if you read interviews with Brooks, he always talks about what a news junkie he was, how he worked at a newspaper when he was a young guy, how meaningful that stuff is to him. And you can feel that kind of emanating off the movie. And he had also done Lou Grant, which was it was still one of the weirdest moves

anyone ever made that worked, where you have this sitcom, you pull somebody out of this sitcom, and you make a drama, a one-hour drama out of the same character. I don't even know, it would be like if Joey Tribiani left friends and became this drama about this actor in LA or something.

That would have been good if Joey was like an HBO soprano spin-off. That might have worked. If he was like Barry. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Joey Triviana. Holly Hunter, I guess we'll get to what her apex was, but pretty nice run for her ending in the piano.

Yeah. Wins the Oscar. Does not win the Oscar for this. In my head, I thought this movie won like seven Oscars. Donut. Zero. It got shut out. Jesus. Oh for seven.

Shut out. So 88 Oscars, last emperor wins, best picture and best director. Are we good with that? I mean, it's the same thing that always happens. It's like that is not. Bertolucci's best movie. It's not even his third best movie, but they waited like 20 years after the conformist to give him this award.

And it was time, and it was like everybody felt really good watching it. Yeah. So if we redo the Oscars now, does he still win best film, best director? I don't think so. Although this is kind of interesting year. It's like it's moon struck, it's broadcast news, it's Wall Street,

it's the last emperor. There's a couple more that were in the mix there. Untouchables. The Untouchables, which wasn't nominated for Best Picture. There's a bunch more hits that were not, Wall Street was not nominated for Best Picture that year. Princess Bride is that year, Raising Arizona. I mean, those weren't even... Full-nail jacket.

None of those movies are nominated for anything. How do we feel about share over Holly Hunter for Best Actress? It's kind of a toss-up. I mean, Moonstruck was such a thing. It still holds up. I like that movie. How do we feel about Sean Connery and the Untouchables? That's another...

Same thing. Over Albert Brooks. That's a big. Although I think Conner is pretty good. Albert Brooks lost. Yeah. I think Connery's pretty great and Untouchables. Over Brooks?

They're completely different. things. You're a sell-out. I'm a sell-out because I... You're a sell-out. You're Ben Stiller in reality-bites. Albert Brooks was supposed to get the Sean Connery Award for Drive in 2011 when that came out, and then he didn't get nominated, and it was like, I remember that was the big snub of that

year that they didn't nominate Al-Brux because it was supposed to be his make-good for not winning this year. That was the Ethan Hawk of this year. That's a movie that came and went. The craziest thing about the Oscars that year for broadcast news is it gets seven nominations, but Brooks does not get nominated for Best Director, which is really weird. It gets best editing.

It gets best cinematography for Michael Ballhouse, who's like one of the all-time great cinematographers. He shot Raging Bull. He's one of Scorsese's guys. This movie looks incredibly good if you analyze how it's shot. It's really smart. But no Brooks.

It's one of those things where how can every actor be nominated, be nominated for Best Picture, all of the craftspeople be nominated, but he's not nominated. And Moonstruck got nominated over for screenplay, not them. It felt like a little fuck you,

you're a TV guy to me. Just a whiff of it. But he had me in terms of Endermann. It was a big Oscar hit. Fuck you. A little, you think you better than me. Yeah, that was Hollywood. They were will hunting.

Michael Douglas over William Hart. We feel good about that? Sure. I mean, it's an iconic character in movie history. Interesting inflection point for their careers, though, too. I mean, Douglas is Douglas. He's a producer as well. But, you know, he's also in Fatal Attraction that year.

Mm-hmm. That was nominated for Best Picture, by the way, which is fascinating. Fatal Traction. Yeah. movie's amazing, though. When are we going to do the Angel Heart rewatchables? That could be one for us.

Fatal attraction I would do, though. That movie is such a fascinating rewatched. You talk about something that has held up. The idea of that movie still exists. Well, they ripped it off 700 times, too. And not just that, but just, it was like encapsulated this concept of like, what is this, what is sort of this secret underlying fear of infidelity? There's all these things that should be the fear, but actually the fear is, what if the person I'm with goes insane. Yeah.

Like, you know, and it's like a, you know, and that, oh, I won't be ignored and all that stuff. That's like real memorable stuff. That started the From Hell movies. Nanny from Hell. Yeah. Landlord from Hell. Tenant from Hell.

I missed us. Broadcast News is kind of the anchor from hell, you know? In a lot of ways, like, is William hurt the villain of this movie or the hero? This is what Brooke said. He said he worked on Mary Tyler Moore for, Seven years. In terms of endearment, another female-driven movie. And he started to feel like there was a new character emerging as the 80s went along.

And he said, quote, feminism was happening. There had to be a female heroin around. I went looking for her. So that brought him to Deborah Winger, who probably wishes that she had waited like nine months to, because she would have been nominated again. Then we'd be talking about the Debrosewinger decade. Yeah. Yeah.

Nice run. What year was Urban Cowboy? Early. Prior to that. Way prior. Yeah. You should that, should officer and gentleman,

she had terms. She had a couple other good ones. I mean, Deborah Winger and William Hurt are also two sides of the same coin. Yeah. Two huge movie stars that did so much in the 80s and that I think if you asked

even a moderately interested in moviegoer in 2019 who that person is, they really would struggle to figure it out. Yeah. $15 million budget made $67 million. 98% rotten tomatoes. Roger Ebert. Nailed it. He crushed this one.

Four out of four stars. He's back! I forgot to look for Eber when we did reality bites. He probably didn't like it, though, right? No, I mentioned it. They both, Susqueenberg, both disliked it. Yeah, okay. Mildly.

Anything else before we get to the categories? No, I think most of the stuff I want to say, we can throw in the characters. Okay. The thing that I think that is so interesting about watching it now is that they are essentially dealing with the concept of fake news. But then I remembered, fake news has existed forever. It's just that the term has changed.

Fake news then meant, oh, you're talking about something that's not as serious other things that are happening or that there's some manipulation of the information we're getting. It wasn't the idea that the news was just lies, that somebody would just say something that's untrue. It was just this idea that, like, there's even the scene where, you know, he does the piece that he ends up getting caught and you're crying and all that stuff. But, like, you know, Albert Brooks is very dismissive of this as news. Like, why is this, why is this why is this news? Yes. You know, it's a personal experience.

It's not a social problem, you know? That, I mean, that's like one of the many things that I was, boy, it's like, this is, there's no way you can possibly make a film that will be like, I want this to apply to something like media over time. Like, you can't do that. Yeah. And it worked. Like, it kind of accidentally was really prescient, I mean, you know.

All right. We are ready for the nominees for most rewatchable scene presented by a. Slink TV, if you need to refresh your memory of the nominated scenes from broadcast news, which we will get to in one second, or prep for next week's rewatchable, the natural. My God, that is going to be amazing. Look no further than Slink TV. Sling has them both in their deep library of new and classic movies, current shows, and of course live sports watching your TV phone or tablet whenever and wherever.

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Other restrictions apply. And now our nominees. All right, the categories, most rewatchable scene. I only put six down, but I'm sure you guys have other ones. I'll just rip through these quick. the first time William Hurt is the anchor and she's in his ear. It's just really well done. And Brooks is on the phone.

It's really great. What's it like at the moment of confrontation? What's it like to be in a real dog fight? Okay, after this guy will go for a wrap-up. You'll have about 10 seconds. Ask him, how does he know when he has a hit? Do you know you have a hit from one of those screens inside your cockpit or can you actually see your missiles strike the other plane with your, lot.

That's good. The equipment is very sophisticated. When William Her and Albert Brooks are on the balcony and he asked them to list the cabinets.

And then he stops and he's, you're enjoying this, aren't you? Like, that whole scene, the interplay with those guys, I really like. Can you name all the members

of the cabinet? Okay, let's throw up it. What? I mean, I am not going to take a test for you. I mean, if that came up in conversation. We're conversing.

Okay, don't name them for me. Just tell me if you know. Yes, Aaron. I know the names of the cabinet. Okay. All 12? Yes. There's only 10.

Him teaching Aaron how to be an anchor leading to the jacket trick. Yep. Just want to mention the jacket trick when I started doing countdown on ESPN. It works. Worked out. Yeah, because what happens, if you start moving around, it starts bunching up and it makes the things go out. So you make sure that the bottom of your jacket you're sitting on. When you're sitting down,

you pull the jacket under your ass and you sit down on it. And every time I did it, I thought of William Hurt. Well, was there somebody at ESPN who was like the person who gave you tips on how to appear better? Oh, God, no. The company was only making $8 billion a year at the time. It would have made too much sense. When the Celtics drafted James Young, did you say cut back to me and I'll be crying?

Aaron's television disaster. Oh, my God. That one is one of those where I remember the first time I did PTI, I was like, I just don't want to, like, that was the bar that you pointed to. Like, I just don't want that to happen where it's just like your whole world is ending basically in live TV. The big fight after the TV disaster between Jane and Aaron and then, and then finally Jane confronting Tom about the video trick. What else would you put in there? It's Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby.

Whoops. Whoops. Bobby Bobby Bobby Bobby Bobby. It's the tape. It's the junkie's at running to get the tape to the place and time. Did I have that in there? No. No.

I thought that was part of the first anchor spot. No. They're getting that. All right. I'll add that one. Yeah. I said, this is, we're all on this together. See, I'm just saying.

I'm just throwing it out there. All right. So what do you have? It's Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. That scene is incredible. We didn't, but not the ending either when she goes to the airport. Sure. Sure.

That's like an iconic. It's like an iconic movie ending. You could get fired for things like that. I got promoted for things like that. Working up tears for a newspiece cutaway. You totally cross the line between what is garbage. It's hard not to cross if they keep moving a little sucker, don't they? It isn't the ending because there's an epilogue, but the no-one-wins aspect of the ending in the movie, and I know we'll talk more about it, is like a bold, really bold choice.

So I think the scene that you referenced, that is the most memorable scene. I think, in fact, if I recall when you were watching night shows at that time, like, you know, that was the clip they used. Yeah. Which is interesting because it doesn't really reflect what the movie is, but truly. Senior mentioning, I guess I would probably say for one specific thing. There, I just love this moment where when William Hurt realizes what she's mad about, he's like, I can't believe this is the thing.

Yeah, yeah. He has a look on his face that it's so authentic, but that is how it is when you can know someone's mad at you and you can't figure out why they're mad and then they tell you and you're like that yes that happened but how can this be the thing it's just i i love that five seconds of the movie chuckleck's fighting in movies that's what we've learned over our rewatches of them i do i do i love the best part about the bobby bobby bobby scene is that it's basically even though it's shot at jane it's told from william hirt's perspective because they never stopped to say like this is what we're doing it's all like punch in 1145 go do an

overhead of this Norman Rockwell thing. We're not going to make it. We're not going to make it. And he's just like, holy shit, what have I gotten myself into? But also he starts laughing because he's like, this is exactly where I want to be. And you can just kind of see like, Holly Hunter's face acting in that is so great. You could make a giff out of any second of that scene. And just my favorite bit is just when that guy is like, I don't think she's going to make it. And he's like laughing.

And he's the one who's like holding them up. It's fantastic. The other thing, too, the other scene that I love it, which I guess is kind of connected to Aaron's first weekend anchoring is basically when she leaves the correspondence in her to go to his house and they have their crazy blow up and he and

Aaron Albrook slips out. You said that? Yeah. Okay. So that fight this is like a movie with great yelling. Yeah. And the scene that you were talking about, Chris, where they're doing Libya and she's screaming and then Paul turns and he's like, I did not realize she was this good. And

then later when he screams at her and she screams at him in Aaron's apartment is like some of the best yelling you'll ever see some of the most authentic but also sitcomy yelling. So that might... That's my vote. That might be my vote too. Because for a few reasons,

it's like eight minutes long. And it kind of... I don't know whether they did this intentionally or whether they edited it to make it seem like it. But it kind of feels like they do it in one take. I wouldn't be surprised. It rides the whole time. And I think this was one of the reasons

he wanted to pick the apartment that they could move around with the characters in. and so much happens and the peaks in the valleys and he has some, what was that one quote he had where he goes, Tom is a very nice guy

but he has the devil. Well, he has the devil speech in there which is awesome, but I think that's also where he has the, I would give anything of you or two people

so that I'd call out the one who's my friend and tell about the one I like so much. But he just said, he has these like Confucius statements in there. The devil monologue is amazing. Craig, let's hear that.

Don't get me wrong when I tell you that Tom while being a very nice guy. This isn't friendship. You're crazy. You know that? What do you think the devil's going to look like if he's around? God. Come on. No one's going to be taking him by a guy with the long red pointy tail. Come on. What's he going to sound like? No. I'm semi-serious here.

You're serious. He will be attractive. He'll be nice and helpful. He'll get a job where he influences a great god-fearing nation. He'll never do an evil thing. He'll never deliberately hurt a living thing. He'll just bit by little bit lower our standards where they're important. Just a tiny little bit. Just coax along, flash over substance. Just a tiny little bit.

And he'll talk about all of us really being salesman. And he'll get all the great women. And he's great in it. And I think that's like my favorite. Albert Brooks is a little polarizing, I think. Some people are completely all 1 million percent and other people are kind of take it or leave it. I'm more in the take it or leave it camp.

He is literally one of my heroes. I know. I think he is one of the most creative and influential people of the last 50 years. I think he's so, and this is just him acting. Right. He's obviously a hugely creative person who's done a lot of stuff.

But just as an actor, he's so funny and sad and melancholy and angry and interesting in this movie at all times. And one thing I assume that he couldn't have been in the script, I assumed he just did, was when he is not involved with the Gaddafi stuff. So he was at home drinking. And at one point, he's sort of like, I'm reading and I'm singing at the same time. It's like, I can do this or whatever. It's like, you couldn't really put that into a script because you would need someone to be, you know, that I just, I really like that part in the movie too.

Yeah. The peaks of values of that scene ending with her, him realizing how upset she is that her date fell through. and then he's like, it was good to see you, Jane. Just like as icy as possible. Thanks for stopping by. Thanks for stopping by. All right.

So we're split on that one. What's age the best? Just quickly, we've mentioned some of the stuff, but the theme of an uncillable media institution starting to die, that's aged pretty well. We've lived this two other ways. I would say it's the central problem

of working in media. That's what I keep going back to this, but it just really surprised me how the what the reason he seems to want to write this movie is to sort of grapple with this he wants to write a romance in one way but he also wants to sort of deal with this problem

that he sees that still exists you know it it should not feel as contemporary as it does yeah I have Aaron as he's kind of a proxy for whatever the internet's going to be 10 years from now you think so angry clever

it's like really Holding, holding, he's got all these things that would eventually seep into the actual that's smart. Aaron's theory

and the devil. Really solid theory. The devil wouldn't be somebody we would realize piece by piece lower our standards, bit by bit.

If he doesn't see me soon, we're not supposed to be together when she goes to the correspondence dinner and she's kind of waiting in that balcony and then he looks up, his acting's so good in that scene. He sees her,

does the mock like fallback. Clutches his heart. Nicholson's, reaction to when the guy says, well, you can dump a million dollars of your salary. And he just stops and turns. Great Nicholson. And then, uh, Joan Cusack saying, except for socially, you're my role model. Yeah.

I thought was awesome. Jane, I got to tell you something. Yeah? Except for socially. You're my role model. But the Holly Hunter character just in general is age the best because anyone who's worked in media has run across the Holly Hunter character from either sex. And, you know, that's, that person was just like, just fucking calm down and have a drink.

You can go home. It's okay. It doesn't work like that. Yeah. Well, and also, I mean, all three characters, though, because there's also the idea of the guy who's too smart to succeed and the guy who succeeds because he's not that smart. Right. And that, and that happens over and over again in life, you know. Anything else for you, Chris?

I mean, I think that weirdly, like, you know, the first thing you, you know, the first thing you mentioned about the media institutions suddenly becoming unstable is it's what's aged the best and what's age the worst is the centrality of like news in our life as a daily rather than constant presence. So it's

basically, I remember when they do the I think it's when they watch the Rockwell, the soldier coming home segment and they're all gathered around the television and they're all just kind of like yes and then like you know, Nicholson takes them out. It just kind of reminded me of like the way that my family

was oriented around watching the national news. Yeah. You'd watch basically the half hour of local news, and then you'd watch Dan Rather, or Peter Jennings at 630 or 7 or whatever it was. And it's so crazy because they're talking about the rise of entertainment tonight, which is sort of this ominous thing

and the idea of news as entertainment and for profit. But I think what's aged the best is that idea that the news was something you waited for and that really did set the tone and the agenda for the rest of the day. But it wasn't this constant nattering in your ear. It was basically, it was in the morning when you woke up, you read the newspaper, and it was

at 6 at 6.30 when you watched that news. If you want to stay up to 11, those are the three times a day you found out what happened. Yeah. There was something kind of quaint about the Libya scene where they have to kind of do a special report. Everybody has to go into the office because the way that network news operates now, everybody is there all the time, and there's always someone ready to do a special report. It doesn't have to be this crack team that they pull together at the last minute who

who are at a dinner party or something. It's just that whole experience has completely changed. And I had the same relationship, Chris. I mean, just 6 o'clock p.m. every day at the dinner table, the TV was on. Who did you guys watch? Peter Jennings. It was always ABC. We watched Dan Rather.

I remember after my parents got divorced when I went up, my mom lived in Connecticut, and I used to go see my mom before I eventually moved there for a few years. There was a show called Live at Five with Sue Simmons and Chuck Scarborough. Yeah. And it was just on forever, but it was the first time I had ever seen a show that, was that really polished. They had a great guess. And that was, it was a really important show and you learned a lot from it.

Institution. Boston had versions of it that weren't nearly as good as that. I had a couple more tiny what's age the best. Albert Brooks's son at the end, how much he looks like Albert Brooks? Was that like a casting call? Was he actually related to him? It's just incredible how much he looks like. Also, his age well about that.

Always a good gift for a kid. You don't know that well? A kaleidoscope. I don't know anything about this kid because I don't know him anymore but he's like this I'd still buy that for someone You know

Lois Childs The anchor that William Heard has the affair with A legend from this She was a moonraker I think she was the lead woman in that Right She has a great arc in this movie

Finally hooks up with them And then the next time we see her She's in Alaska Because they moved her She's great in this They have this conversation where she's asking Jane about whether or not, like, they're together because if not, she'd like to start seeing them outside the office.

Yeah. Do you think that this movie is particularly, like, accurate about the popularization of people going to therapy in the 80s and getting a little bit more in touch with both their feelings, but being able to articulate what they want in life or how they think they deserve to be true? Because I feel like there's, like, a certain, it's not even neurotic as much as it's just very, like in touch with, hey, this is me trying to get what I want in a good way and I'm not trying to barge through here. It's just so much different than the 70s, like everything is soaked in whiskey and cutthroat about network. And this, it's like a little bit more, everybody is like, even William

Hertz character kind of gets it. Like he kind of sees the way people see him. I think because of the humanizing quality of Jim Brooks's writing, you kind of forget that this is a movie about really successful professional people. You know, kind of operating at the absolute height of their industry. I mean, they're on network television doing the news. Now, even though it sometimes seems like it's a bedraggling kind of job, these are really successful, erudite, kind of tony people. They're basically upper class.

And the idea of Aaron at the end of the movie kind of going to Portland is considered like a huge step down from the corridors of Washington, D.C. So I feel like if you see people in the movie who are able to communicate in sophisticated ways. It's because they're pretty sophisticated people. And whether they're in therapy or they just read a lot or they know that they're very driven in that alpha 80s quality is kind of at the forefront of everything, we lose sight of that because people seem like such basket cases inside the workplace. This is something that I think maybe it changed quickly. Maybe it's still going on. I don't know because I haven't worked in an office for a while. But in the eight years I worked in

newspapers and then in magazines, especially in newspapers, though, the majority, or at least a large percentage of the people in the office who were married were married to each other. It was very common for that to happen, you know. And you'd be, and because you know, especially if you have a job that your identity is tied to it, it's like you feel like it's like the thing you were saying, you know, it makes sense that there's some things you only kind of talk about with people to do what you do what you do. And I can, so that scene actually seemed the one you referenced, like, I feel like I've seen different and experienced different versions of that in my life where like two people work closely together. And a third,

person asks one of them, it's like, I see you guys together all the time. Is anything happening? And if it's not, I'm going to ask this person out. Sure. Because I can't tell if your work relationship is just like your inter-office kind of charming. That seemed to happen all the time. Yeah, yeah. But now I feel like there's a real, I mean, and you guys can speak to this more than I

could. Like, that's not supposed to happen at all now, right? Like, you're not really supposed to date anyone you work with. Let's move right to what's age the worst. Because 20 years from now, everybody will be working in a suit of armor. It is, if your peers, you're not supposed to date now, right? It's a complicated subject. Maybe we should just preemptively cancel this part of the conversation for HR reasons.

I was going to say... Well, I'm really interested in this now. It's struggling to watch the movie. You got another to lose here, buddy. You're about to stunk down half a million dollars for everybody gets suits of armor. Yeah, we can get a deal. on the suits of our honor. Yeah, right.

No, so they almost took up and then he says after, I'm actually going to be working with you in the office. And if that happens down in 2019, it's over. Yeah. Because he's, she's technically his boss. That's it. And it goes nowhere. In this movie, it makes the romance and the love triangle even more interesting.

Everybody's working together and they're all gone. That's just kind of what the 80s was like. We didn't have the internet. You were going to meet the people at work or at a bar and a party and that's it. How is we're going to meet you all? The only ways you were going to really get to know anyone was to work with them. There was no really other way unless you saw them in the same social situations over and over and over again. And my friend Wilde's from ESPN, Libby, who I worked with 30 30, she walked in like on her first day and Wilde said to Jacobi, I'm going to marry that girl someday.

And they got married. They have two kids. Is that for real? That's an actual story. Wow. And it's one of my favorite couples. But like now in 2019, I don't know. So anyway, it is.

It just feels very specific to the 1980s. I think the thing that has changed is that there is a lot more, people are sort of more careful and there's a lot more intensity around putting things out in the open. People are still meeting each other at work and getting together. That's literally never going to change because the amount of time that you spend with people, the proximity effect that you guys are talking about. I don't think that stuff is ever going to change. I think the kind of sensitivity around it is what has changed a lot.

And in here, you know, it's not that weird for Holly Hunter to be in a kind of sort of, kind of a love triangle, even though it's, I wouldn't say that this is even specifically a love triangle. It's like a mental abuse love triangle. It also is interesting to think that, okay, in this, in the context of this movie, the woman as Holly Hunter is anything going on with you. Now, actually, if you're William Hurt, you would be looking at Holly Hunter and Albert Brooks and their relationship.

You would think you would go to Albert Brooks and say, like, what's going on with you and her? Like, but that never happens. That's like never on the table. Right. And I'm not sure if that is just something. something that was not part of the story or if there is an intentionality to that, that the idea that, that, whereas a woman would be concerned. Because there, another thing you talk about things that don't hold up, I'm not sure if, would the idea of sending someone to Alaska to keep away from it? Would that be perceived now as kind of a woman being against her? Yeah, she'd file an HR suit.

Yes, that you can't, well, I don't know, she'd fight who she might not put it together because it is a good story. It's an Alaskan serial killer. But it's just like the idea that she would do that. Because for the most part, Holly Hunter's flaws in this movie are problems for herself. She doesn't go around hurting other people. Yeah. Except in this one case. Right. You know.

Right. And I don't, I was, I remember, I didn't remember that at all from the, I mean, I hadn't seen this movie since 1989 or something. So there was, I'd forgotten Jack Nicholson was in it. Yeah. Like, I totally forgotten that part of it. But that struck to me like, they wouldn't do that now. I don't think they'd have her send someone to Alaska to keep her away from a guy.

Another thing that has aged the worst, we mentioned earlier, but when they're showing the date rape segment and Aaron's like, come on, what is this? Where's the real news? I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't happen now. At the same time, he's coming from that angle, which we talked about, which news was supposed to be news and not, was it these personal stories, or was that you weren't trying to be People magazine.

You were just trying to report. That was fake news in 1980. Haley writes about that scene really well. I would argue that Aaron's story about the soldier coming home is just as sort of like, it has a little bit of syrup on it as well. I mean, it's like, he's just being a dick. It's just like,

if I do it, it's okay. But if you do it, I'm going to have something to say about it. Well, you really blew the lid off of Nookie. That's a great. That's a great ease sentence that you'd never hear again.

In 2019, that is, you're packing up your office. Actually, you're getting your office packed up for you. Yes. It's a thing where it's like, also are like the news they think about the news differently where it's like you can't show a guy

tying his shoes unless he's naturally tying his shoes so the i so if that sort of is the bar of what constitutes what we're doing here then the idea of anyone's you know anything that's only happening to one person is almost not news in that world it's got to happen to people not just a person i would argue that that's true of almost every iteration of news unless you have to be stumbling upon an event happening in real time, there is a performative aspect to being a reporter because you are talking to people after something has happened and trying to gather information. And when that person talks to you, they are performing their memory. You are performing as an interviewer to try to compel them to speak to you. All of that stuff is all baked

into this too. With TV, it's particularly acute because you're on television. So you have, you're wearing makeup and it's cut together and there's music. But there is something so interesting because, like, Chris, I totally agree with what you're saying. And I feel like the movie is actually smart about that. I think it's actually saying that there's not such a wide chasm between what William Hurts' character does and what Albert Brooks' character does, but that we tend to obsess over what

we define as the ethical choices in our work or why shit is important. They would say the difference is motive. That even if what they're doing is ultimately more similar than different, the motive that Hurt has to

amplify the story by placing himself in it and placing in the signifier of emotion, that is then cinematic. Whereas Albert Brooks is not doing anything that different, but his motive is simply that we should prioritize what is important because people need to know these things. Wait a second, though.

It's different that William Huron wants to do that story because it's a good story for him. Whereas Albert Brooks is the same. Yeah. He is insecure, wants Jack Nicholson to notice him. This is like some sort of more altruistic, but it's really not. But it's not.

That's the thing it means to the end. It's the lies we tell ourselves. It's like he can speak Spanish and he can get, you know, he can do that kind of stuff. And William Hurt can engage with people on a human level. And yes, he might then go back in post and add his tears. But you could make the argument that Holly Hunter and Albert Books putting the Rockwell picture as like a dissolve over that guy going home is like equally manipulative. It's Hollywood. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's on screen. It's going to be manipulative. Morewood's age the worst. Holly Hunter's hair and dress at the correspondence dinner. My wife was watching most of the movie with me, and when she comes out, my wife audibly gasped and then just started yelling at the TV.

Why did they do this to her? It's pretty rough. The hair is funny. But it's also the 80s. Like when she appears in the next scene and she just has the short bob, she looks great. Yeah, she looks great. Yeah. So it's funny that that was like her souping it up.

Her outfit at the end wasn't great either. And then Tom's fiancé at the end. I don't know. I just, I didn't get that one at all. Seven years had passed. We'll talk about the seven years later, but... I thought that was like a nice touch. I mean, like, I have a lot of issues with the released very ending,

but I thought it was a nice touch because when you are in a relationship with someone, you kind of can only view that person with you. You can only, like, imagine them with you. And then when you see them with somebody else later down the line, you're like, you're like a completely different, like a foreign, you're an alien, like to have, and there's this guy with like, or a girl with them. And you're just... That's not fine.

I just wanted him to be married to like a 22-year-old. old smoke show weatherman. I couldn't believe that was the easiest layup ever that he should have been married to like the weather lady who's like, this is Victoria and she's 22. Do we have to wait still? Or can we talk about that scene you sent us? No, we're going to wait.

We're getting to it. Hey, let's take a quick break to talk about Bud Light. Did you know not all alcohol products that required to list their ingredients? That was news to me. Bud Light is changing the game, much like James Brooks did with this movie.

They believe that we did. deserve to know our beer's ingredients, and that's why they put an ingredients label right on their packaging. Budlight, brood with hops, barley, water, and rice. No corn syrup, no preservatives, no artificial flavors. Find out what ingredients are in your beer Bud Light. Enjoy responsibly. A.B. Budlight beer. St. Louis, Missouri. We, casting what ifs, we did everything. Also considered that Holly Hunter beat out, Sigourney Weaver, Judy Davis, Elizabeth McGovern, who I always kind of liked, Christine Lottie and Elizabeth Perkins. Lottie would have been good.

Dion Waiters Award. What's the Deon Waders Award? Chuck? So the Dion Waders Award, the way you have it is who does the most with the least. It doesn't involve the person being a lunatic or any of that. Although often it does. Yeah, sometimes a doubt up. That's just because our taste sends to veer towards that. Our nominees are Jack Nicholson, Joan Cusack, Lois Childs.

or the TV music composer guys. I'm going to go Cusack. I would do. I think I would. She's pretty memorable in that movie, considering how little she's on screen. And also does the Yergen-Kinsman slide underneath the filing cabinet?

Well, just one quick thing about the music composer guys. So, you know, one of those guys is Mark Shaman, who is one of the most successful composers in Hollywood history. He wrote all of the songs in Mary Poppins Returns. So that's like a great moment for him. Big finish. Also, if you were ever confused about whether or not the guy who made this movie made sitcoms, that's the most sitcomie scene of all time.

That scene's really funny. I got chills. I love it too. Strings. I think that Jack Nicholson, I'd like to know what you guys think about this, is maybe the greatest He-Chek performer in the history of American movies. He was also my vote for this as well. There's no, between this, red. few good men.

In some ways, terms of Indyerman and even the Joker, like movies where he is not the star, he can take over a movie like no one else. He is in this movie probably the smallest of any movie he's ever made. And he's got nothing to do. He's just reading news and one time he goes to the office and deadpans. It seems like now it's become a lost art. Like Denzel Washington doesn't do this.

Yes. I kind of wish he would. I kind of like I've always sort of wanted like a... Or Cruz. Well, because they're talking about he, I guess he kind of did it in Tropic Thunder. Yeah, but he's in that movie a lot. But if they do a few good men, like, Denzel should play Jessup.

Like, they, if they're doing that on NBC, like, I write the check, you know. But it's like, I wish people would do this more often where they would just show up for like two scenes and just steal the movie. His whole career has been like that when you think about it, though, like all the way back when he's making the, like the Fonda. Easy Rider, yeah. He's a writer, yeah. He has a small role in the beginning and it's a real memorable thing. and I think he was like, I like the way people respond to this. You know, it's like that they like that.

So when you're talking, I vote for, I vote for him for this. When you talk about the greatest actors of all time and the criteria can be endless. But I do think this should be a category for whatever that conversation is where it's just like, by sheer charisma, can you carry just four weird scenes in a movie that you're not important in? And every time you're in it, I'm just looking at you and wanting to see what your character does. there's just not a lot of actors who could do that. I think it's basically like Brando. It's him.

I think Denzel could have done this. I think we could have been charismatic Denzel for it, but it's really not a long list. I guess would you say that De Niro in Untouchables is like this? I don't think DeNiro could have done this. But he's only in like four or five scenes in Untouchables, right? He's just, but he is like the bad guy. You know, this movie, Nicholson.

This guy's just wearing a suit. He's a normal anchor. He represents. kind of the pomp and wealth of a person who does this. But I think his best scene is the scene as the layoffs are happening. And he sort of like slinks away around the corner of the desk, no dialogue. And you can just kind of see him like removing himself.

Yeah. And like now you'd have like George Clooney play this part or something. He just wouldn't have the same impact. I don't feel like. He's just got one of those faces. Damon does this. Interstellar. He shows up in a couple of movies.

Like, yeah. This is something about Jack. off topic, but like, okay, is the thinking with Nicholson now? Because it feels like he's at a point in his life where there would be a big sort of retrospective piece about his life in his career. But is he just kind of trying to run out the clock? Because if anyone wrote about his life, there would all be these kind of problematic things from his past.

Oh, interesting. And that that would change his legacy. So he's like, I just got to run the clock out and die. And then like this great. You think he's in the four corners? Well, kind of. Yes. Yeah.

He's like North Carolina in 1978. And he's like, you know, it seems as though he would be a prime candidate for this people to be like, we have to look back on this sort of towering figure. The Polanski thing happened at his house, right? Well. And then he's like there's all kinds of. Yeah.

I'm sure he is probably. It almost seems like he's avoiding. Like, does he even go to Laker games in here? He does. Sometimes. I don't think his house in great shape. He, I mean, he's 81 years old. He purposefully retired nine years ago.

His last movie was Jim Brooks movie. How do you know, which is really bad? I don't think that that's what's happening. I think that maybe it's possible that that has prevented him from making some sort of comeback. There couldn't be in like a New Yorker piece about him that wouldn't sort of approach some of these issues. Sure. I'd love to know what he's been approached with movie-wise over the last 10 years. Like what they've tried to get him to do.

Oh, yeah. I'm sure he's a lot. Also, I don't know if this was mentioned, but for this Dionne Waiter's thing, what about William Hurts' dad? he's pretty good in this for being in Tucson. I had him coming up later because he's one of those guys. Half-Fast internet research. Albert Brooks was watching CNN when a reporter he'd never seen before and hasn't seen since began sweating badly.

He phoned James L. Brooks at 3 in the morning and said Aaron had to start sweating during what became the sweating scene. When the makeup lady comes out and he's doing it, she's just like, Jesus. Jack Nicholson not paid for his role at his own request. paid the best. Unpaid? I thought that was illegal. You had to give them the sagging scale.

It's awful. That scene, James Brooke made them do 24 takes, which he doesn't usually do because he wanted it to be perfect. He thought it was the key part of the movie. Switching Channels was made in 1988 with Kathleen Turner and Bert Reynolds

was almost like a competitor of this movie and was a critical in box office failure and started a Kathleen Turner slide, which a capitalized. I don't hear of that movie. All right, so the alternate ending. I sent it to, it's on YouTube. You can watch it, those of you listening out there.

James L. Brooks said he was open to who Jane would end up with at the end of the movie. He told Premiere Magazine, the cab ride at the end when she gets in the car and she starts telling the cab driver, and then she just gives up and is like, go whatever way you want. So they're filming that scene, and he tried to sort of. surprise her. Him and William Hurt figured out William Hurt would do jump into the cab and basically ad lib the scene that is the alternate ending scene. She had no idea it was coming and they winged that scene for two minutes. William Hurt knew what he was going to say. Now, Holly Hunter was such a good actor. Jim Brooks said, I knew I'd get one take. I knew that Holly wouldn't break character and I would

get, who knows, I was super excited about it. It's ready and a guy in the crew gave it a away by saying, Bill, just before we started a role and it ruined it. And I had an out-of-body experience. And then he said, Hurt and Hunter saw that scene later. And they both thought I should have ended the movie that way, but it wasn't right. I'll tell you what, you know, I hadn't seen that. Can you just describe quickly, like, what happens in that scene for the people? So the scene is, she's in the cab. Yeah. He jumps in out of nowhere and makes this huge pitch, and they start making out, and the movie ends. And they make it in a very interesting way. I got to say, I'd never seen that till today. There is no way I would have.

cut that out of the movie because the acting in that scene is amazing. And there's something that he says when he's like, he's trying to kind of convince her, he's sort of like, yeah, I can't. I won't get it exactly. But he basically is like, you know, there are some things about this that I'm good at. Like, I can learn the things I don't know. And the things I do know, no one can teach me. And I'm like, that's an insightful characterization of what he does.

I would have left that in. I feel like it's a better ending than the one that they used. But when a movie is this good, like, I don't know if I really feel comfortable saying that she doesn't end up with anybody in the end. Because in every movie, love trying to end up with somebody. Sure. Somebody's got to end up with somebody. And in this one, she basically just ends up with their job.

And some people like that. It's actually more realistic. I think after seeing this, I would have ended it with this. I think you could have done both. Like, I think she could have had her moment with him in the cab. And then you can find out years later that they're not together and that they've all kind of gone with their lives. I think that would have been a good solution. But that probably wouldn't have tested well if they did test it.

There's another one on the crime. There's no way this version tested well. The version that they did is one of the all-time downer endings. I know. I honestly hit stop after when she's in the cab. I just stopped the movie. What do you think? I mean, it doesn't ruin the movie, but it's like that just even when you sent that today,

I was like, God damn it. I was going to talk about it in Nipix. I hate the ending of this movie, which is weird because this is one of my favorite movies. And I actually like watching it, even though I don't like it. but it's just a, it's just a, it just doesn't work. It's really weird and it's like, it's raining.

It's like, come over here to the gazebo and there's jackets and he stays for one second. Then he leaves. And then it's just like, all of it is just weird. And they're also like, I guess we'll be working again together.

Yeah. Did you take the job? I did. It's like, it just wrapped it up so tightly. Yeah. I hated it. And then it was like seven years later.

It took him seven more years to get the Nicholson job. Yeah. That's a surprise. Now I buy it. Also, Albert Brooks needed to have a kid who is old enough to have a colitis. I guess so that. So they had to have at least five years in there.

But so clearly he went to Portland. He met somebody. They got pregnant. It happened fast because that kid actually looks older than seven. You probably drank with them before Blazers games. Aaron's son. Chris is right, though. It would have been interesting if they would have ended the, use the alternative ending.

And then we see this scene and we're like, why are they coming from different places? Who are they talking about? you'd be like, oh, like most people who date in their early 20s, they didn't live the rest of their life together. Although you did. I did actually, yes. Although we did not meet it a network news job. The alternative would be you graduate it and you just kind of like,

you do the Michael Clayton graduate ending of just like her in the cab and it just, that's it's it. You don't know what happens to her. It's not the point. It's just been this moment in her life. I feel like it should have worked though. Her giving up on the directions to the cab driver, that also is a good moment. That would be right.

That's a good moment in the movie. So you would lose that with the alternative. And then it should have been, she should have gone to a rescue shelter and gotten a cat and then bought a pack of cigarettes. And then the movie ends with her just cleaning cat litter knowing this is going to be the rest for life. Spoken Sigs. I don't know. I like the alternate ending more than the actual ending, but I think neither of them were ideal.

It's so funny because most movies don't have a good ending at all. I think you can make the case that this movie has two good endings, which is pretty rare. I don't know that they're necessarily classically satisfying. Like, them not ending up together is not classically satisfying, right? But I like that they did it that way. I do too. But I agree with what Chuck said, which is that when you watch that scene, the acting is so incredible. And even though it's not really edited or anything, and you can tell that it's kind of unfinished in a way, there's so much intensity between the two of them.

And they have something that feel so real that you buy that they would not be able to quit each other. How would you guys feel about this hypothetical ending? So we were really talking about the idea that what Albert Brooks does and what William Hurd does is not that dramatically different in truth. So how would you have felt if Albert Brooks tells Holly Hunter to go back and watch the tape? Yeah. She sees it. She's initially upset. And then she realizes, I don't care.

It doesn't matter. I'd rather be with this person than have this sense of credibility that, you know. I think that. I think it portrays the character. That's the thing is also, I do feel like in the last 10 years I've started, I think because of like criticism is sort of bended towards this a little bit where like individual decisions of characters are somehow representative of like a larger. Absolutely. Like a larger choice on the part of the creators of the film or television show. So someone does this, it's the creator being like, this is okay or this is the right decision.

It's Lady Gaga singing at S&L that terrible song and a star is born. It's an intentionally bad decision. If that were to happen, I think the critical reading now would be, she gave up. He is saying it doesn't matter. He broke her. Or that ultimately, it would almost, almost be seen, like, nihilistically. Like, ultimately, she doesn't really care if things are fake or real because what's fake and what's real.

But I think that would have been another way. Then they could have went off on their trip, you know? It's like, yeah. What's got to Apex Mountain? Jim Brooks? Yes. I say yes, too. Yes.

because he is now fully established himself as a-list movie director, but he's also already in the Hall of Fame for TV, and he's like a year away from taking a Simpsons meeting. And this is like the perfect point of his career. It is. I mean, because you're saying this is the point in the person's career when they have the most leverage. The most leverage, most power, the most cluel.

Because the Simpsons thing is interesting. Fastest fastball. There are little parts of this movie where you can definitely see, like, This is the person who does The Simpsons. Like there's elements of humor that come through. I suppose it would have to be him. Yeah, though. I mean...

William hurt? Indisputably. Yeah. It has to be. The third consecutive Oscar nomination? More than... More than winning the Oscar, I guess. More than Brooks.

Oh. Well, it's not at either or for this. We can make it a multiple... Oh, really? It can be a whole... Himalayan mountain range. We can spread this movie's ashes over the Apex Mountain. This would be everyone then, right?

For all the main players. It's definitely Holly Hunter. The answer would have been yes for everybody. Yeah. I think that's the answer. Yeah. I think it's... Polly Hunter for the piano, I just don't feel like that movie had the same impact or lasting impact that this movie did.

This movie and Raising Arizona are her two best movies. Yeah. Boy, it sure feels like Raising Arizona is closer to now than broadcast news is. Yeah. But it was the same year. Yeah. That blows my mind. Yeah.

Well, that was easy. Apex Mountain. Joan Cusack, no? Well, when say anything? 88. No, 89. 89. That would probably be for her, I guess.

Well, she doesn't say anything, right? How about Bob Proske? Well, she's a... I love Bob Prosky. I hope you were going to bring him up. She's really good in the high fidelity film. Yes. That's what she's...

I mean, I don't know what her apex would be. I guess this. Sure. Yeah. The Joey Pants Award for the best of that guy. William Hart's dad. I didn't even know what his name is, so he's a candidate. He's great.

The, uh... You getting to Prosky? Yeah, it's time. Proscis. It's Prosky time, Chris. We didn't play in the set of time. One of the great mammoth actors. He is amazing.

He's not, Thief is his best, in my opinion. He is unbelievable in Thief. I love all Praski, so I don't, I don't pick Proscy. Prosky had this interesting transition through his career where he was like kind of sinister in the late 70s, early 80s. He was basically Wilford Brimley in the firm for like a whole decade. But then he turned into good grandpa.

You know, he's basically good grandpa in this movie. And he has a couple of really good moments. You know, when he takes Aaron out and he tells him. him that he's going to get laid off. Then he's like, I need to go be alone. And he's like, okay, I'll join you. You know, I love that part. And he also has the moment where he sits down with Jane and he's like, I know you're

not as good as me, but I need you to take this job because I'm leaving no matter what. You know, both of those moments are so good. Those kinds of actors are like my favorite thing about movies. What if Evil Brimley had had this role, Chris? Jane. There's going to be some layoffs. You're going to go down to the mailbox. Get your Newsweek, your U.S. News & World Report.

I don't know what this person is. But there's that one character who's like, he works in the control room and he really, he really likes when William Hurd compliments him because he never gets going. That guy looks so much like Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yes, he does. So that's, that guy was from bad influence with James Spader and a couple other things and then was, I don't know what else. Can I just, Bobby? Christian Clemanson is his name. Can I briefly just say we kind of undersold Joan Cusack there for a second?

I just looked at her IMDB. 8586 SNL. broadcast news in 87, married to the mob in 88, working girl in 88. And she's good in working girl. Say anything, 89. And then men don't leave

my blue heaven in 90. That's a pretty great five-year run. Joe Kesek. I'm going with Praski. Saul Rubenek, they knew. What do you got, Chris? Man, what is it?

Because this movie is so understated. It's funny. People dial it up, but it doesn't feel like it's overacting. You could say any Holly Hunter crying scene, but that's almost because of the way it's become memeified since then. Yeah.

What do you think it is, fantasy? I don't think, I don't feel like there's any overacting in this movie. I think, is it Brooks when he's like, you go to hell!

Yeah, when she's walking out? That's what I was going to say. I think it's in that showdown scene where he yells at her and then she yells at him, even though it works. This is important to me!

Yeah. That is kind of an accurate reflection of when you lose your shit on somebody, but you're not at your, most articulate and then you slow down and then you get all your lines together. And you can see Aaron, who is so smart, getting his, the devil theory together. You know, he goes outside. He paces around a little bit. He figures out all of his strategy.

But in the moment, he's like, you get the hell out of here, you know, when he's screaming. It's very similar to Saul Rubenek, actually. I may be in love with him. Get out of my house now. I want you out of here. Get out of here. I'm not kidding. Get out of here.

You go to hell. I had one candidate, Paul, the... the guy who's in charge of everything. I'm not sure they couldn't have gotten a better actor for that part. That guy was a newscaster. I know. He wasn't a real actor. Yeah.

For that one. Like the Nicholson scene, like he doesn't match Nicholson. He is part of what I think is the single funniest line in the movie though. Which is? After he lays the guy off and he says, no, if there's anything I can do for you, the guy says, well, I certainly hope he'll die soon.

Picking Nets, we talked about the ending already. I still feel like seven years was too long. I would have gone with like four. Seven years is a long time. Like, like, we started Grantland seven years ago. It was just like forever. Yeah,

but this was like a time period, like my dad worked for like the newspaper that he was at for like 25 years. You know what I mean? Like, my big nitpick, why didn't she smoke? This character was just dying

to be smoking six. Not a lot of smoking. Was there some smoking in the news from there? Jim Brooks must have been anti-smoking. But this is like just classic, just Diet Coke, cigarettes. You still smoke in the office in 87? Yeah, she should have cigarettes everywhere. I think it would have pushed her next level.

Getting in the cab with the cigarette. Yeah. Just want butts everywhere with her. She must have not wanted to do it. Maybe Zorinsky wasn't a smoker. Yeah, man. Best quotes. We talked about a couple of them already.

Wouldn't this be a great world if desperation and security made us more attractive, if needy was a turn on? I can't believe I risk my life for a network that test my face with focus groups. I did the It's Awful scene. I'd give any of you with two people. What do you do when your real life exceed your dreams? Keep it to yourself. Love that one.

How do you like that? I buried the lead. I've never fought for anyone before. Does anyone win these things? Is a really good quote. And then congratulations on history's longest winning streak, which is, I think, my favorite one of all of them. It's nice to see you.

Congratulations on history's longest winning streak. Yeah, if you ever get restless. In Portland, let me know. Why? It's like a dig, but he's also congratulated him. I don't know. Lots of good quotes in this one. And we mentioned the QZAC saying socially, you're my role.

Except for socially, you're my role model. And also, you can make it less brutal by knocking a million or so off your salary. Bad joke, I'm sorry. Yeah. That's great. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix series? Not as the answer, yes. I've just greenlit it.

They already made it. It's called The Newsroom. Yep. It's literally the newsroom. Really? Yeah. Yeah, that's what this is. This is a newsroom.

This is a Sorkin show. This is what if the news was the most important thing in the world? It's just kind of sad to watch it because... That was so heavy-handed, though. The broadcast news was heavy-handed. But they tried to have banter. High-strong producer, yeah. Anchor.

Hilarious. I don't know of many shows that have been that funny in the last... Intentionally? Oh, I have no idea. No, I don't think the... Not intentionally. Not intentionally at all. I just...

I watched every episode of that... I thought everyone got funnier than the last one. And then it started to get kind of good at the end, which actually made it slightly worse. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I always got a huge kick out of it, though. And Bill, when Sorkin was on your show, he said when he was writing that show,

he had a pebble in his shoe. And he could never quite get an entire episode right, which I thought was such a accurate characterization of that show. Which was something that character in one of his shows would say, to explain a problem. Totally. Totally. He is an example of why it shouldn't be a show

is that broadcast news is perfect because it's about three people with a few people in the background. Newsroom is about 10 people. And they all got their ABC plots and it would be like, well, we're going to tease this out and we got to go check in on Allison Pill

and we got to go check in on Sam Waterson. Death Patel. Yeah, and like all the Christmas Cena's character. I'm laughing just thinking about you naming these people. I know. And it's actually like, a wild cast. Olivia Munn.

I really like the... I totally wish the show was still on. I would still watch it every Sunday. I totally wish it was still on. If this was like Greas and Adamy and it was on for 20 years. You didn't think it was good though. I don't know.

I mean, did I, if I enjoyed it that much, don't I think... It's a kind of good. Yeah. But we're talking about... No, I don't think that it taught me anything about what it means

to be a human. But I did really... You can enjoy watching something and not have to think it's good. There are movies that I enjoyed much more than broadcast news who I would never say are better movies in broadcast news.

Right. So, I mean, I think that we're... Yes, in a way, if you like it, it's good. That should be as far as you go. But having this kind of discussion we're talking about, like, that was a silly show. One of the reasons why that show suffers is that they try to scram all of, like, Holly Hunter's character into, like, nine or 11 minutes per episode of Emily Mortimer. And the problem was, I think, ultimately, that they made Jeff Daniels the star of the show. They made William Hurd the star of the show instead of Holly Hunter.

That show would have made a lot more sense if Emily Mortimer was at the center of it. I didn't like her in that show though that much. I mean, that was a pretty key part. I didn't feel like she nailed it. I'm a fan of hers. But it is very similar. I actually wish there were more shows like that

that were that polarizing. I feel like we're heading toward this world where everything is either a show a couple people like over here. Chris and I just watches it. Chris and I died on Vinyl Island. You may or may not have all that. But you know what actually is probably the show

that's closest to broadcast news is sports night. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit more modest. It's got a little bit more space. It's closer to broadcast news than it is to our contemporary. Good Night Bean Town. I don't think I've ever seen that.

Is that a show? It was Bill Bixby. It was a show in Boston. Bill Bixby and the woman who was often in the Incredible Hulk, she's blonde, good actress. Good night, Bean Town. Didn't work. Probably unanswerable questions.

Did Holly Hunter die alone in this movie? There's a guy, she says. There's a guy. Yeah, that felt like she, I feel like she made that up or there's coke. I don't think she made up if she probably is like two days of the guy. She won't even fill a guy tying his shoes unless he's legitimately dying his shoe. She's not going to lie about her relationship. Yeah.

I don't know. Probably like three dates. No, she made out of them once. She had an incredibly successful, beautiful, smart woman. She was crazy. What are you talking about? Whatever. She's too crazy.

You know, many crazy people are. married? That's the whole institution of marriage is driven by crazy people. No, but she's too crazy. Like the correspondence dinner, she goes with them, then inexplicably has to leave. That was like crazy behavior. I honestly don't think so. I don't either.

It doesn't seem that crazy to me. If Lee was like, I'm done, you were my date for the correspondence dinner, and you flaked out because your friend was hosting the fucking Saturday newscast. So many people men and women are drawn to that kind of energy. There's something like exciting for people. Yeah, of course. Bill. A little too crazy.

What are you talking about? She was a little too crazy. The correspondence day of scene, I can't sign out. This is a bit of a weird run for you between this. This and like I don't like Troy from reality bites. No, explain to, I did like Troy. I just didn't like him. Let's go back to when you said.

You wouldn't have liked the. I love people like this. Or the Holly Hunter in reality. You would not have liked her in reality. I would have been really mad if she left. If she left the correspondence dinner without us ever going in, would have made me mad. Well, it's the correspondence like the biggest day of the year in D. Sounds like you were.

threatened by her. Why don't you get your suit of armor on, Bill? Any other unanswerable questions for you? Can you guys just do a little bit of, do you think this, what do you think is the best movie of the 80s? Because I was thinking about this a lot last night. We don't know for sure, but like there's two different strands of this, right?

There's die hard aliens, you know, Raiders the Lost Ark, ET, you know, stuff like that. And then there's like broadcast news, raging bull. Color of money. Color of money, sure. I think that was also 87. We're not picking, but you know,

there are to, you know, do the right things in this conversation. This movie exemplifies what I think is the best of 80s movies. It had that like

Zippy Bill Conti score and it had all the performances are great and the writing is kind of pitch perfect and it's very enjoyable at like a solid two hours and five minutes. Great actors.

Great actors. The stakes are high, but they're not overwhelmingly high. No one's diving off of a skyscraper in this movie. I don't know. It's just so hard. I would give you a different answer every day. I would tell you Bull Durham one day.

I would tell you aliens the next day. I would tell you this. Probably, if I had to say one, I would say Raiders of the Lost Art for a variety of reasons. That's in there for me. But that's not my favorite movie from the 80s. But I would, you know, that's kind of a different. What is your favorite movie?

I would have to think more because I know I would give the wrong answer if I just said. I mean, I think broadcast news is a better movie than Raers. the Lost Dark. And yet somehow, if we're talking about, because you know, you can't let your personal taste impact too much of your answer here. You know, it's like, like, I mean, obviously we all work in media. Our interest in this movie is going to be higher than the average person. It's true.

I'm sure very few archaeologists don't think Redis of the Lost Ark is the best movie the 80s. I'm sure they all think that. But, you know, you can't go too much there either. The reason why this is such a hard question to answer is that this is the decade that I watched like 15 movies over and over again. I could do rewatchables about like almost any movie from this decade because this is like the video store time period

where you just like I watched Goonies 100 times I watched Ferris Bueller a hundred times I can't even you know I've watched aliens and predator and lethal weapon and die hard It's also a really weird decade as we discussed in the last podcast The 80s were just fucking weird I mean the movies that won Oscars We look back and we go what the hell

Like the first half of Full Metal Jacket is like the best movie of the 80s But then the second half isn't so and that's You can't watch one with the movie I actually think we could figure this out. Because we figured it out when we did the social network. There was a combination. That seemed obvious.

But yeah, go ahead. Okay. So it's a combination of these three factors, right? How well done and well acted and original and just like distinct was the movie. So that qualifies here. What do the movie mean in a larger cultural apex and did it take on a different meaning as the years went on? I think that qualifies here as well. And then how did the movie age?

Did the movie, as the years past, become more of an achievement? And I would say that that factors in, too. Well, in style of the time you got to factor in, I mean, I think, I don't think this is a bold statement. But when you look at the last 30 years of the 20th century, the 80s were definitely the weakest decade for film. Yeah. I mean, the 70s were considerably better. And I would say the 90s were, you know, because of the rise of independent film and stuff. in the mainstreaming of that in a way.

So, like, there was a lot of, we're talking about this on, we're just talking about this or we're just talking about this? We just talked about this. The idea that there's, that there's a lot of,

like, kind of canonical movies from the 80s that kind of seem bad now. Like, Tutsi or something. Yeah. Or, or, like, I mean, I can't say Gandhi's a bad movie,

but it just, it doesn't, you would have thought at the time that when they made, Gandhi that this is going to be sort of one of the 20 greatest films of all time and that would never happen now. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, if we were talking about the best movies of the 70s or 90s, I feel like we would have a very long time. Yeah, we would have, yeah.

Potentially have a situation where we have three movies that everybody has and seven that are all separate. With the 80s, it's hard to do that. It's hard to find 10 movies that aren't just things you personally like. It's because, because, that became dated immediately. Because producers took over the industry at that. time and they took off all the edges. The best movies were popular movies.

Yeah, if you look at Empire Magazine's best movies of the 80s, number one, Raiders, number two, Empire Strikes Back, Raging Bull, Blade Runner, Back to the Future, Die Hard, Aliens, ET, Spinal Tap, Evil Dead, Shining. I mean, like, these are like really big movies.

Outside of this is Spinal Tap, yeah. Yeah, I mean, but even just like, even Spinal Tap, like, today you'd be like, oh, this is just like... More famous... I got to say... ...on the movies on that list. Back to the film.

future would be the other one I would think about for this. It's a good one. It's definitely a good candidate. It aged really nice and it was an important movie. It's like that's like a very specifically 80s kind of movie. You know, like those are movies that are made on this like mass big screen level but are basically like sitcoms. Like you're saying earlier about the, about broadcast news itself. It's weird. I think I can't tell what it is that defines it. Well, here's one other thing about this that helps the best movie this is the 80's case. I think, ripped off from every year after it came out. I think people crib from this movie all the time. But the love triangle part of it,

like making characters as distinct as you possibly can, having like dromedes where there's funny moments. And I just feel like this movie infiltrated. I agree with that. The decades that followed. Do you have like a crazy curveball answer? No. I just think that there is...

I think to do the right thing is definitely like the one that we're probably like not having the conversation. It's probably the most culturally significant movie, made. I don't know if it's necessarily the best, whatever our parameters are, but there is a trend line in the history of Hollywood where essentially every 30 years, you get a down period. We're in the middle of a down period. In the 50s, Hollywood figures out the studio system aggressively. It starts leaning into musicals and melodramas in this over-the-top way, which leads to the 60s and the industry kind of eroding and then having to reinvent itself. Same thing happens with the 70s.

You go through this booming new Hollywood period. Hollywood figures out how to make money on that. take over, as Chuck said. And then you get the 80s, which is like, has a lot of fun movies, but ultimately you get a lot of Gandhi and out of Africa and chariots of fire winning best picture. And you're like, are these really the best movies that Hollywood made? And then similarly right now, franchises and comic book movies are the lifeblood of the industry and the movies that are winning best picture are stuff like the shape of water and maybe Green Book, which no one's going to look back on and say, well, that was definitely the best movie of that year. And they'll be like Black Panther or Stars. Or Get Out or whatever. I just, I know, this is, we'll derail things. But I mean, isn't that kind of the purpose of the Oscars is to essentially be wrong in the present tense for people to go back and say like what the thinking at the time was was incorrect.

This is what we, you know, if only we knew that now, on the situations where like the Oscars get something right, those are totally forgotten. I mean, had Citizen Kane won Best Picture, it would be like, oh, that's how it was. But it's important that it didn't. It's a meaningful thing that it didn't. And we talk about that still, you know. Yeah. It only happens like every 15 years. Yeah, with Gump, I think that's a good example.

But then we did the Gump podcast for me. That was a really good movie. It was an enjoyable movie. Yeah. I think it matters. I think I might be with you on Best Movie the 80s because think how many times other people have tried to make a movie like this since and gone down in flames. Yeah, including James All Brooks. Yeah, including James of Brooks.

Like you need to hit your top three things. You need to hit your theme. Every single piece I have to work or it's like a Jenga thing and it just, that's it's it. That's it. Kind of a dark horse cat in this maybe? airplane. I mean, because the degree of difficulty on that movie is high. I also don't think that movies, though, that came out in, like, 1980 are movies of the

80s in a lot of ways. Like, a shining and raging bull and airplane, and all those movies all come out in 1980. It's a different time. Even Raiders doesn't necessarily feel like predator. The definition of an 80s movie to me, other than, like, the Rocky and Back to the Future, but, like, Fatal Attraction feels like an 80s movie to me. A movie that came out, it felt ahead of its time. It's still completely watchable.

It was hugely influential. Die hard's another one. Well, yeah, this is like, I mean, I'm not everyone who says this, but sort of like, you know, we think about decades the way they are on calendars, but in truth, in practice, that's not how it is. Like, like, the music of the 80s actually starts in 1983 and it ends in 1991. You know, it's like the music of the 60s really starts in 1964 and ends in 1971. It's like, so the 80s in film actually began.

it's like fast times 8, and it's the same thing where it's like, it might go up to force. I think of, I don't think of Sons of Lambs as a 90s movie

in the way that I think of the Matrix as a 90s movie, you know what I mean? I think the 80s ends with Reservoir dogs. That's like we're getting close to 90s you're almost over. It's 98 or whatever.

So that's like pretty, you know. But that like it's kind of like it has all of these cultural signifiers of the 90s that I think of like the kind of mainstreaming of dance culture and dance music

and like a computer culture starting to rise a little bit. All that stuff is in The Matrix, whereas in Silence of the Lambs, they could have made the Silence of the Lambs in 1964, and it would have been the same kind of movie, you know? Who won the movie?

Who? Holly Hunter. Really tough one. I think it's Holly Hunter. One of the toughest ones we've ever had. The only way I can do it here is that I think I can't substitute in my mind anyone in for this. This movie is not as good or the same without Holly Hunter.

It's pretty convincing. I don't have a, I mean, I don't feel like anyone else could have done the Albert Brooks part. Yeah, I was going to say Albert Brooks. But I also feel the same way about the Holy Honor part. He's sort of within the context of the movie, he's the biggest loser. I think we could remove Liam Hurd because I think Jeff Bridges absolutely could have played that part and been 95% as good. Well, why do you say he's the biggest loser?

Well, he doesn't get the person he wants to be with. He doesn't get the job he wants to be with or he wants to have. You know, he is in this situation where he is literally telling the woman, I'm in love with you. And as I say that, I know it's not going to make a difference. You know, it's like it's too late for me. I'm just not that person. You know, I said earlier how there are some sort of similarities in reality bites or whatever.

It's like, you know, Ben Stiller is never like, I know I have no chance with you. He kind of thinks like, you should be with me. But you can tell, Abrel Brooks knows he's not supposed to be with him. It's also, also like, you are so incredible and so attractive. and so everything in this, being a good broadcaster, it's like, I shouldn't be with you. Like, I don't deserve to be with you. In a weird way, you deserve to be more with the good-looking mannequin in a sense.

So, and, but I just think, though, that he is like, I don't think you could replace him in this movie. I don't know, even though that role is probably, to a lot of people, would be like, oh, I could have done that. Wouldn't have seemed right in some way. Praski? Last one, I actually think you make a really strong Jim Brooks case for winning the movie. Because I don't know if this movie existed before this.

The modern love triangle that is trying to say something. It feels very 40s to me. I don't think it's a Carrie grand version of the movie. It also feels like an incredibly high-end expert level Neil Simon kind of thing. But when was the last time somebody made? it though. You're talking about like you're going back to the 70s and people thought this

kind of movie was gone that nobody was going to make these anymore. There's definitely something to that. I mean he is an original voice who also you can feel all of his influences happening at the same time Preston Sturges and Sid Caesar and Neil Simon and Woody Allen

and sitcoms from the 60s and Norman Lear all kind of bundled up Howard Hawks and all that stuff yeah And yeah, you're right, Bill. Like, there probably was a long period of time before there was anything like this. I mean, do you think Cameron Crow saw this movie as like, I'm going to spend the next 15 years trying to make my version of this movie? I mean, he did because Jim Brooks took him under his wing.

Jim Brooks, like, produced all of his next movies. So I think you made a case for Jim Brooks, but I agree with Chris. I think I would vote Holly Hunter because it's a performance and a character so unique to her. And I think her height really helps her in the movie. I almost feel like, you would have to have like a 5-1 actress. There's no like, oh, I can just sub someone and they can do the Jane voice or they can do her facial expressions or they could do. Could we find a smaller one? It would be like Kristen Chenoweth.

Should you like Linda Hunt to do it? Perhaps we the audience is the winner of the game. This is fun. This is a great movie. You can check it out on all the streaming services. When I tweet the link to this rewatchwows, I will put a clip of the deleted scene underneath that tweet as the next reply and you can watch it. and see if you like that anymore. Sean, Chad, Chris, thank you very much.

Thanks, Bill. Thank you.