The Rewatchables - ‘Chef’ With Bill Simmons and Dave Chang

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Dave Chang get caught up in some Twitter beef and decide to open up their own pod truck after rewatching Jon Favreau’s delightful road comedy ‘Chef,’ starring Jon Favreau, John Leguizamo, and Sofia Vergara. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're going to talk about a movie called Chef. It turns out Dave Chang, you're a chef. I had no idea. This is true. Chef is coming up next. There are chefs that cook food that they believe in. Be an artist on your own time. It's my restaurant.

Do you threaten to fire me now? It's what I'm prepared to do. If you don't cook my menu. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm lost. You're never going to be happy cooking for someone else. So what are you going to do? You're going to laugh.

Tony, Carl's got a taco truck. For real? He says, I love you. Chef, rated R. It's Select Theater's Friday. All right. a long time friend David Chang is here. We talk about food movies all the time.

You've talked about them on your podcast. This movie, Chef, which came out in 2014, directed by John Fabro, starring John Fabro. There's lots of awkward connections for you. Like, you know some of the people on this. You're claiming you have to be careful. I know you're not going to be careful. But one of the reasons that this to me defines a rewatchable movie.

because over the last nine years, it's been on, and I keep getting sucked in. As soon as they're in the food truck, I'm ready to go. I love Leguizamo in this movie. I think this is the most I've ever liked Leguizamo and anything. And just in general, I like the hang and I like seeing the food. And I think this might be my favorite food movie, Chang. If I had to guess which food movie would be your favorite food movie,

it would be this movie. Is that a back hit a compliment? No, because, Because number one, it's on all the time, right? And I think a lot of that is because Netflix has the chef show, which is like a spinoff of this show. Yeah. I mean, the movie.

And all the sort of themes in it are relatable. And the food is approachable. It's not about three mission star dining, none of that stuff. So it's all very, very much populist and approachable, but also done well. Right now it's on HBO Max, which is where I saw it on one of the HBO channels. and I don't think my wife had ever seen it and we were watching it and the little kid's really good in it

and I can feel her getting sucked in this catches food at probably the most interesting year you ever could have made this movie, right? 2014, we're still in the first part of the 2010s, the food critic is still incredibly important, right? Are you doing Lucky Peach at this time? Yeah, and it's on his desk a couple times

and I forgot about that. This is peak food moment in American history, like right in 2013, 2014. Because, you know, you're out of, like, the early aughts, and now you're in the teens, and social media now is just everyone knows about it. Before, no one knew anything about it, at least in the culinary community. So now you have Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook pushing people toward restaurants and chefs. People are following eater, they're following food news. they're following chefs.

So this was all new. This was all on the ascendancy of like, it's never going to be higher than it was back then. And we have shows like top chef, things like that. You have Hell's Kitchen. The concept of a celebrity chef, when does that start? When did you become a celebrity chef? Late 2000s?

I guess I started becoming well-known like 2005, 2006. In Washington, in New York. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, there had always been celebrity chefs. Right. But they were mostly known as, like, TV chefs, right? But the distinction between being famous for cooking and being famous for TV had never really been, you know, talked about. So that's why a lot of chef chefs that don't want to be known as just, like, a fake celebrity chef,

hate the term celebrity chef. It's not, like, a compliment at all. Right. You sound like a hacker almost. Yeah. Because I remember in 2014, we were in the finals. It was San Antonio, Miami. I was on countdown.

And we did a whole Grantland shooter, Franco Barbecue. And we went, it was like House Seats Four, House Seeds Five, one of those. We brought Jaylen and we had Remberg to me and Jacoby and a whole bunch of people. And one of the reasons we went there was because we knew what Franco Barbecue was. We had heard about the legend at that point. I would have had no idea in 2005 of any of that stuff, right? and he's in this movie. That's one of the best parts of the whole movie, too.

For me, it captures, like, not peak Franklin barbecue, but again, this moment in time that I live through that I'm not saying food is, like, not as popular as it was, but it's not as novel. It's not as new, right? Like, you knew about this place in Austin, Texas. How many restaurants? I knew about your place.

I knew about Momafuku and all that stuff. It was part of the Zygize. When did you open the, the second D.C. restaurant? At that same time. Yeah. And House was like, you got to come back. We got to go to this fucking restaurant.

You got to ask Chang and ask Chang. And it just felt like everything was taken off. I do think Eater was a big part of this too. Because there was like, and Lucky Peach was a big part of it. There's still food critics. Like Jonathan Gold is still crushing it at this point. There was still a dialogue about food. There was real criticism.

That's why the critic guy is so interesting in this movie. He's obviously modeled after Jonathan Gold. We're going to talk about some of your issues and ups and downs with critics over the years. but all of it feels like something. And now I don't really know where we are because TikTok comes in. We've had a lot of celebrity chefs like that have come and gone

and, you know, been, there's been some cancellations. There's been all kinds of things. There's been restaurants. Vegas kind of took over. And it just became an industry. And the word celebrity chef is now fitting. It was just too far ahead.

Now celebrities are chefs. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You had chefs. Selena Gomez. Becoming content people. Oh, yeah.

And then we have that too. And Marshawn Lynch and whoever you want to name. But the concept of a food critic matter in this much, to me, made way more sense in 2014 than it does in 2023, which is one of the fun things about this movie. It still matters, but not as much. Not as much. Not nearly as much. But that was like the most power they wielded was in that period, too, for sure. In, like, internet first four or five years of 2010's pre-Twitter, pre, I don't care about

somebody's feelings. Yes. Right. The transition hadn't been, like, quite complete. People were still looking at the three, four newspapers, magazines as the gatekeepers about where is delicious. And, you know, food literacy wasn't as high as it is today. It's just 10 years later.

So you still needed to go ask the experts what good was. Yeah. And now in 2023, you don't need that. You can go on TikTok. You're going to know yourself. Your kid probably will know better than anyone else, too. So it's a very different landscape. I think that's been the same for movies and TV, too, to some degree.

I think that dialogue has drifted toward podcasts. And where in the old days, you think, like, in the old old days, like movie critics, like Paul and Kail or Roger Ebert, who we always mentioned, they had real sway and power. Now I don't feel like critics, they can add to the dialogue, but they don't set, the conversation. Like in this movie, the guy Ramsey, I think is Nate. Ramsey and Michelle. Yeah. He literally destroys this guy's career with a review. And he

trends on Twitter and there's no going back and Favreau's character snaps. That was a realistic 2014 scenario. I don't know if it's realistic in 2023. I mean, it would still happen, but it wouldn't like capture the attention, right? And I've been on the receiving end of that kind of review. In fact, I got a bad. bad review from Oliver Platt who plays Ramsey Michelle's brother is actually was the food critic for New York magazine, Adam Platt. And yeah, like, I bumped into him the day he gave me a bad review and I let him have it.

Unfortunately, there weren't no other, I wasn't being recorded. Yeah. Well, the most interesting that happened to you is the Jonathan Gold piece, which, you know, the guy in this movie, Jonathan Gold is basically the real life version of that guy. I didn't care of more weight. He won more awards. He was considered the greatest food critic ever. And it's based in L.A.

Based in L.A. So you opened Momafuku, which we talked about on your podcast, and he wrote a kind of pissy review about it, which was not super negative, but it also wasn't complimentary. It was very carefully crafted, and you guys had had had a lot of history at that point. Yeah.

It was personal, and it wasn't a review that any other. the normal food critic would do because he says it outright, I'm mad at this guy because we had closed Lucky Peach down. Right. And he was still curious about the Lucky Peach's. So it also tells you just how different the criticism is. It's become way more subjective, right? And, you know, people love the negative reviews. All critics are remembered for their takedowns, never for their positive write-ups. So, you know, I don't think that was necessarily a takedown. I think when people read that, they were like, whoa, what's going on with these two? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like there was. And we couldn't really talk about it. That was made it made it really like, I couldn't like make a reply in the editorial section of the LA Times. I thought about it. You know? Well, because we're like, because I'm half Italian and you're Korean and our instinct is to just. I know.

Something like that. We could push our buttons. Unfortunately, he passed. So I never got the chance to like, you know. So when you see the Favro character in this. in this movie. What, what resonant? We can do the opposite of this question, but what resonates with you the most? Because to me, one of the things this movie just nails, and I think they really cared about, and then in some of the research, he had, he leaned on Roy Choi for a lot of,

both close friends of mine. Roy, super close. Well, he's, so he leans on him about the chef thing, and Roy is basically like, if you're going to do this, I have to put you through this crash course. The chef thing is about precision. It's about repetition. It's about being just over and over again doing the same thing and really caring about bearing yourself in the little details, which is something you've always told me too. And Favro, like in the first scene, he's making stuff and you can see it.

Like he's doing all the stuff. There's no stunt work. But what else resonated with you? Well, I want people to know Favre really learned how to cook. Yeah. And just as a quick side note, I did a dinner at, Wolfgang Puck's restaurant in Bel Air and it was like one of those

celebrity dinner things and Roy Choi was also cooking the dinner so it was like the three of us you know who was like the comie the apprentice was John and Favre was like really cooking and getting totally shit on

Wolfgang Puck was just merciless on I'm like what is that? What are you doing? What are you that? And now Favre was a really good cook so he learned he really wanted to learn so the food is not just believable in the movie. It's just like because that's what Roy was doing. And before Roy did food trucks, he was like working in real restaurants.

The food truck scene, oh, wait, the resonating thing. What else resonated you with the character? I didn't understand when I watched it in 2014, a father-son relationship. And I think this movie can be interpreted a lot of different ways. It's like Favreau's sort of relationship as a director in Hollywood. I think it's an allegory for a lot of that. and also like him being a dad in a lot of ways. And I never, when I first watched that, I was like, I have no idea.

This is like ridiculous. I don't care about any of that stuff. But now you have two sons. Now you have two sons. I was like, oh, yeah. Anything that's father related. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that resonates a lot more. But because it was culinary focused and all these things, it resonates.

Yeah. The food truck piece of it. So the food trucks are really, this is like a wave. This is a thing. Peak food truck. food truck's still a thing but not now it's like easier to discover them there's maps for them there's apps for them

people know where they are they're usually a gateway to getting your own restaurant or something like that like what's changed in the last nine years well a lot of the story and chef takes from roy choy's story right he merges Korean food with Mexican food and puts it on a food truck because he was sort of disillusioned himself and he does it

and like he uses Twitter for the first time. And no one had used Twitter to like advertise. It was like so far ahead of its time. And like it taps into the like young zeitgeist and that's how like everyone's talking about. Even in New York people were like, have you heard about this this taco truck? Everyone's like, what the hell are you talking about? Taco truck. So that's like that storyline was real. And do you remember hearing about the taco truck? I mean like I got to check this out? 1,000% because he won Bonapetee chef of the year, the year after I wanted. Yeah.

And I just remember being like, what the hell is happening? It was so important as to what was happening food-wise, because people didn't know, they only talked about stuff that happened at fancy friend restaurants at the time. Yeah. Now we're talking about a food truck. So it was just a complete 180 in terms of how people would think about food, write about food, eat food. And the fact that that happened, and in 2013-14, right?

around that time, it was peak food truck because of the success of Roy, everyone wanted a food truck. And because of that, it's not as special. So I don't think you're going to see it like that again, in my opinion. I remember in LA, it was an amazing time because all of a sudden there were these little pockets that would pop up, like Wilshire would have one, like kind of past Fairfax going toward Las Ciena, but there was like this whole stretch of food trucks in this one area. And they were like really, really high-end stuff. I was like, what's this? Is this? This is like where things are going. Now it feels a little more planned out.

And also, like, people are way better at making food now. I think there's probably more good people cooking than we probably ever had because this whole generation influenced this whole next generation, right? And a lot of the people that have food trucks wound up in a restaurant. You know, that's sort of like the goal. I mean, Roy still has this Kogi fleet, but I mean, a lot of my friends that start a food trucks, their goal was this is their lowest cost way for them. to get an audience and then open up like an actual brick and mortar restaurant.

There's also a Bourdain piece that we have to mention too. If you're talking about like how this is kind of peak food conversation, a moment. You know, he's, we have him too. I know you were close to him. Yeah. And I remember Favro, that was something that he really sort of dove into too. It was like getting the Bordane element, right? Because he was like, you know, the narrator of an entire culinary generation.

Because there's a couple moments in this movie that feel a little. Bordani, right, when they're going from location and location, and it becomes a completely different movie where we go to Miami and New Orleans and Austin. It's one of the reasons I love this movie because all of a sudden, it's basically a reality show, and we're just kind of hanging out with these three characters that I've grown to like, and I'm going to different cities and seeing food and seeing things cooked. It's like three different movies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the traveling bit is definitely an ode to Bourdain, I think, right? getting Bourdain always wanted to use food as a way to absorb culture, right?

That was the vehicle. So like the Austin scene, for example, is a good example where you have Gary Clark Jr. It's not even just about the food. It's about the music. It's the entry point to everything. Yeah. We have a category in the rewatchables that I'm just going to do now that is called sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

I just think this is, if they made this movie now, it's not a movie. It's an eight episode series. Yeah. I don't think there's any question. And I actually like that it's a movie. I think this is a good example of why not everything needs to be an eight or ten episode series. They could easily, like, episode six could have been Miami. Episode seven could have been driving in New Orleans and they run out of gas and they have to stay at a crappy hotel and they all have to share a bed.

And then episode eight, now they're in, you know, Austin. But I like that. It's contained under two hours. If anything, this movie probably feels like five minutes too long. it's a good two-hour film and it's something where you're like, you're always glad that you sort of watched a little bit of it because you know exactly

what's happening. So, you know, it's interesting. I never thought of it as a series. I've always, because it's a movie, I think it's like, you know, what would a prequel look like? Yeah, yeah. A young, Favro, skinny. That's like, I want to know,

as a chef in me, wants to know what the fuck happened in Miami, right? The origin of Carl Casper, the character. What did he do to capture? a national attention, right? Because Miami's now like a super hot spot, right? Yeah. But to be noticed in Miami on a national level.

In the early 2000s. Yeah, you got to do something like... And to Lance Sophia Vergara. That's a whole other conversation. You have to be like an absolutely elite chef in the Miami scene. Yes. Well, because the Miami restaurants, what was it?

It was the... You have Michelle Bernstein. You have... Joe's Crout. Joe's... Joe's is like an institution. And then Prime, whatever. Prime.

But now you have the Carbon guys are taking it over. or taking it over. But back then, nobody, you had people of note on a national level. Probably Michelle Bernstein was the most famous.

But to be a young, up-and-coming chef where people around the country would eat at and talk about, that's where I'm going to, I will talk about later. There's a bit of a discrepancy.

Yeah. Okay. He wrote the script after directing several big budget films, including one that we just did last week on the rewatchable's Iron Man, but she did 2008, and he wanted to do a thing about cooking.

He wanted to be small-scale independent. He cited movies like Eat, Drink, Man, Women, and Big Night as inspirations, make it food-centric, semi-autographical, as you mentioned, being a father and being busy, coming from a broken home. And also, like, there's a little bit of the parallels that you mentioned with his life. Yeah. See, I think he did, what, Cowboys and Aliens in 2011, and it probably made its money back, but it didn't do that great.

I don't mind that movie too much. It's not terrible. But he took some shit for that. And then it's like, oh, my God, I'd become big budget guy. How did this happen? I started out as the Swingers guy. And then Iron Man. And then Iron Man 2, he didn't direct.

And he didn't direct Iron Man 3, but he was a producer. And I think, again, I never asked John. But, you know, I think, what was that? Who was the, oh, it was Parcells. That said, like, I want to shop for my groceries too. Like, it's a very similar mentality. think for a director that would want some control over the production of the film and the same thing as like a you know and again like I think that's one of the reasons that translates to the

movie where I understand when I first watched I thought maybe I don't quite understand why chef like that doesn't own the restaurant but I think John was trying to tell a narrative that you know fit his narrative you know he's officially become underrated I think I love him because of us great and i'm not just saying that because you're friends with them but you know for a lot of us especially people in our generation he was the swingers guy right he made swingers a huge success it was a really influential guys movie we've done on the rewatchable is it really mattered to a certain generation and then watching him kind of evolved from that and it was like oh this guy's having a career that's cool but then elf happens and he becomes a real director it's like the best christmas christmas

yeah still like and that that's grown in stature then he gets ironman And that basically, you know, creates the Marvel universe. And he's the one who wanted to cast Downey. And then he has this. And then he has Mandalorian. That's a pretty nice every decade having something that kind of mattered. And chef probably doesn't matter culturally like the other things. But it's still a cool movie that they don't really make movies like that anymore.

I don't think, I don't know anybody who's like, I fucking hate chef. That movie sucks. He took shit in 2014 for it, I think, a little bit because. It deviated from what he had been normally doing. too. Yeah, and also like, why are you the one doing a chef movie? Who are you? But again, like, we do need more movies like that, but it wouldn't have been made if it wasn't John doing it. I remember asking him, you know, this is sort of paraphrased over the years, but like, how did he do it from being in Rudy, right, all the way to where it is today.

You know, and he was like, on the set of Rudy, he was asking every question. Like, he was just a nuisance on set because he was trying to absorb. And everything he's ever done sort of rolled into the next thing. Swinger's the same way with Doug Lyman, where they were like soaking in all, because they made that movie for like five bucks. And I saw it with my own eyes at how he wanted to absorb the culinary world.

And, like, you know, it's a real thing. So I think his success is really tied to just how curious he is and wanting to learn all the time. So, yeah. Well, he shattered Roy Choi. He worked in his kitchen crew. Roy oversaw the menus and created the Cuban sandwiches,

which we're definitely going to talk about. taught him to hone his knife skills, taught him to just be authentic with every piece of it, even folding towels, all the repetitive tasks. And that was that. This movie had an $11 million budget. $46 million it made. Plus, it feels like it's been on for the last seven years.

So it's probably made the same amount of money. Yeah, that's right. It's probably done pretty well. Our guy, Roger Ebert, did not review it because I think he wasn't around anymore at that point. Do they still do thumbs up on Roger Ebert? I think Roger Ebert would have, this would have been three and a half stars for Rush. And at story and at heart, I think you would have enjoyed that.

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So here's how I know we're doing good rewatchable. I probably have too many rewatchable scenes so we can rip through them. I like the opening credits we mentioned where he's just. just doing the prep work and he goes to the farmer's market. Just because it's like, we're in her. All right, this guy's a real chef, I believe it. The Dustin Hoffman versus Favreau. You want to cook them a good...

Yeah, I want to cook them some good food. Yeah, well, then... And our place is in a fucking creative rut. In a rut. In a creative rut. You do know that we're doing better in any place in the neighborhood. I'm talking about how much money we're making.

I'm talking about creatively, the food that we're serving. It's the same food we've been serving for five years. You remember what happened when you put guts on the menu? Are you talking about my sweetbreads? Is that we remember? Yeah, when you put that artsy shit on the menu, people don't like it. Not one person ordered your sweetbreads. Please listen to me.

I sank a fortune into the remodel to get you the French cookie top, whatever it is, that table top. French cooking sweet. Right. Not every chef gets that. You know why you get it? I appreciate it. You know why? Because you deserve it.

So you don't know that, but I know it. You deserve it. So be smart just for tonight. Look, if you bought Stones tickets and Jagger didn't play satisfaction, How would you feel? Would you be happy? No. No.

You'd burn a place to the fucking ground. I need your perspective on all this. He says stuff like, I've had chefs before you in this kitchen. I'll have chefs after you. Our place is in a creative rut. That's what Favreau says. Hoffman says,

when you put that artsy shit on the menu, people don't like it. He brags about how he bought him the French cooking suite he wanted. And then he says, you know what I think. I think you should play your hits. Your thoughts, David Chang?

I love Riva. The Hoppa character. Because it was the most accurate. By far and away, the most accurate person in the movie. I have found myself saying that to younger chefs that work for me. It's like, get rid of that artsy shit. Yeah, play the hits. What are you doing?

You know what I mean? You're not good enough yet to do something like this. Stop trying to impress people. Stop trying to be cool. But even that stuff, like, I've got you this fancy stove, all these things. And I know restaurateurs that are like. him. So, you know, he was very good, very convincing for me, for sure. What was the most artsy-fartsy thing you cooked where you had a heat check? You had a Jordan Pool 28-footer on a menu one day.

I made a tofu foam thing on sea urchin and tapioca pearls. What restaurant was that? That song about early day. It was really good, but man, like I had my head up my own ass on that one. For sure. Oh, my God. Yeah. That sounds like the Jordan Pool 28-footer. Next one for rewatchable scenes. Chef reading the scathing review, which he thinks is going to be a good review, he reads it to the staff. Carl Casper can best be summed up

by the first bite of his needy and yet by some miracle also irrelevant chocolate lava cake. Casper didn't even have the courage to undercook the cake, thus curiously lacking its signature molten center. This sad dessert is emblematic of Carl Casper's disappointing new chapter. His dramatic weight gain can only be explained by the fact that he must be eating all the food sent back to the kitchen.

Two stars. His dramatic weight gain must be because he's eating all the food people sent back to the kitchen. That's my favorite line. Just brutal. Like 40 daggers. It's actually a well-written review. I would like to read the whole thing online. if it exists, but you must have had a moment like that where you're like, oh, the reviews

out. And it's like, oh. You know, the reviews are less powerful today. It's hard to describe for people that are not old enough. But when I first started cooking at like a serious restaurant in 2000, there was no online reviews at the time. Right? So they would send me up. I remember in New York Times, it would come out the Tuesday night at like 10 p.m.

So they were like, here's some money, go to New York Times office, and they're going to put that out first. And I got that copy. I brought it down. It was a three-star review for Tom Colicchio's craft. It was glorious. It was the first time I ever experienced anything like that. When you get a great review, it's like winning a championship. It really is.

Getting a bad review, I've only really had one terrible review. And a lot of people piled in on that, that was niche. It is like the worst feeling in the world, especially when you're in a bad review. especially when you're in that moment where you're like, everybody's like anticipating this thing. And you think you're doing a good job. And everybody, nobody's pessimistic, right?

And then it comes out, it's like somebody died. Yeah. It's really, it's terrible. Yeah. Nishi, what were wrong with that restaurant?

I forget. I think. Or was it just backlash? Because you had a little bit of that too. I think a lot of the dishes that we did are now very commonplace in New York. York City. Oh, they should now underrated? I think it was totally underrated.

I also say this. I could have executed things better and maybe it was too loud, et cetera, et cetera. But it was a great restaurant and I think there was a little bit of backlash. That's just my opinion. But ultimately, we could have done better for sure. So you get, you read the review and you immediately just want to kill somebody? Yeah. I mean, it was more like, I can't believe this.

I've never had a review like that. Everything had always been unbelievable, right? Just super amazing reviews. And that one was a one star. I was like, I'm used to getting like three stars, two stars, three stars, right? One star feels aggressive. One star is like Jack in the Box. Yeah, and it's supposed to be like a good thing, right?

You can get satisfied. Jack in the Box sponsoring us, Craig? No, okay. No, we're claiming. Let's keep that in. So I remember getting that and just being gutted. And, you know, I could really relate to that moment in the film. For sure.

Well, the good news for you is you don't internalize stuff and dwell in it for a long period of time. The next one, I had, I'll do this now. I had a critic question because this isn't burnt too. When the critic is coming, it really operates like this or it's like, Bob's coming today. We got to have good. What's our menu? Like, is this, how accurate is this compared to real life? So again, like things like the TV show, the bear, as like it's the most accurate thing.

on TV and film, right? But even that is still following certain things that would never happen in a restaurant because it has to follow like a 37-minute arc or something like that. There is no way that would happen in real life. It would happen in Europe, in Australia and the UK,

the critic announces themselves beforehand. I don't know why, but they do that. In America, it's all about being anonymous. So there is just no way you could explain that to an audience that has no idea. deal about food and understanding criticism. So like with Momafuku, did you know Jonathan Gold was in there? I mean,

it's hard for him to miss. Because you knew what he looks like. Yeah, that's easy. Yeah. But when he's there, you're like, all right, he's there. Yeah, but you don't know ahead of time. Just keep going. They always change their pseudonyms. You have no idea, really. Next, rewatchable scene.

Hoffman versus Favreau, part two. It's not your food. It's my food. He's not wrong. We got a full house. of people who are coming in a night to eat my food. No, it's not your food, Carl. It's not your food. By definition, it's my food because it's my restaurant.

I pay for the glasses, I pay for the napkins, I pay for the spoons, I pay for Molly's salary, I pay for your entire staff salary, okay? So you're either cook my menu or Tony can't. Tony, you've been cooking at half the time anyway. Tell the truth, right? So you're threatening to fire me now? Am I threatening to fire you?

No, I'm telling you what I'm prepared to do. If you don't cook my menu, subject closed. Well, why don't you cook the menu without a chef? And we see how it goes. We see how it goes tonight. Let's go, Tony. Tony's played by Bobby Carnival. He just kind of freezes.

Let's go, Tony. Have you seen that happen? Or it's like, the chef's out. Oh, I thought my number two is coming. That happens all the time. Yeah. Maybe not in that short amount of time, but probably over like a week period.

That would happen, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing. definitely come in with you, chef, and then they never come. See, that's why I love fantasy and CR and Mallory and Juliet. They were like my John Loguizamo. They came and we conquered. Now we have the beautiful ringer.

Favro food prepping his revenge meal and then coming to the restaurant and flipping out on Ramsey. Chocolate lava cake is not just undercooked chocolate cake. That's not what makes the center molten. You take a frozen.

cylinder of ganache and you set it in the rambican so that as the outside cooks fully the inside becomes molten Okay, okay. It's fucking molten, see it's fucking molten you asshole and you don't do anything. What do you do? You sit and you eat and you vomit those words back To make people laugh you know how hard I work for this shit? Do you know how my whole staff works? What sacrifices make to make you happy and then you just smugly just fucking shit on my shit? I shit. It's fucking molten asshole.

And this is probably the most unrealistic scene in the movie, but I really like it. I don't think anybody would be this deliberately crazy with 50 people there. I don't know. I think they're chefs

that would definitely do it. Really? I think I would do it. If we'd grab the molten cake and hold it up. If the... There's so many dishes that critics get wrong.

Yeah. And you're like, it was executed right. You're just dumbass. Yeah. And that was sort of, but basically what he was telling Ramsey. It's like the molten center,

to get geeky, that is like a Michel Brare invention from one of the great chefs ever. And there's two kinds of parallel flowerless, warm chocolate cakes. One was sort of invented by Jean-George von Drithson, which doesn't have a center of chocolate ganache. It's just a batter that you cook underbaked.

The Michel Braw one is very difficult, and he literally makes a sphere of chocolate that when you bake it, it melts, and that's the chocolate center. and that's the one that Favro is being an homage to. And that's what he was saying. Like, you're an idiot. You don't know what this is.

I love that version. The downy scene. Look at you. She's pregnant. Just found out. This one? Pissed on a stick. Came in and laid it on me five seconds ago.

Is he? So it's yours? That's what she's saying. You don't? I know. I got a problem. She's best receptionist I've ever had. Yeah.

Good news is I had my tubes tied in 2008, so clearly she's also a fucking liar. Right. That's tough. What do you want? Do you want coconut water? You okay? I'm all right. Do you want to drink?

No. Let's make some decisions together. All right here. Let's start off easy. We get in all we got shit to talk about. Look, bang. We got four swanches, right? Let's start off easy, and then we'll get into the uncomfortable stuff.

Pick it. For the, for here. I don't know. Yeah, I'm putting a carpet down because people keep slipping around like it's a fucking ice rink in here. You can't always get him take the booties off.

Can't do that. Robert Downey Jr., who's one of the most famous actors in the world at this point, just pops in and fucking hits like four threes in five seconds. And it's just the peak, like, arrogant, kind of funny, Robert Downey. Talking about how his secretary is pregnant.

The good news is I had my tubes tied oh wait so she's clearly a fucking liar he's just going nuts basically confesses that he might have had sex with Sophia Vargara and it's just fun to see Robert Danny, this cast in this movie, they have Robert Danny Jr., Scarlett Johansson, Dustin

Hoffman, John Leguizamo, Bobby Carnival, Amy Sedaris. It's just loaded, start to finish. That was a nice interlude, right? It was like a nice intermezzo type of thing. Yeah, that's what, yeah, because then we move into the second half of the movie. This is a small scene,

but I really like when he takes his son, as we both have sons, and he buys him the chef's knife, and he explains the concept of this is your knife. You have to take care of it. I just like that part. When they go to the farmer's market, they get all the need for the Cubano.

That whole section is really fun. The Burt sandwich speech is another great father-son moment. There's two great father-son moments. One was on the kid is helping him clean out the food truck, and he throws away the hotel pants. Right, he gets bad, yeah. I was like, shit. I said that so many different ways to cooks.

And I'm sure now that my son's like four, I've said the same kind of thing. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. He's like, but you told me to, you know, it's just communication breakdown a little bit. Yeah. And then the burnt one, I've had that, the burnt Cubano, I've had thousands and thousands of times. You just want to cheat somebody to care because this is like my profession. I care about it, which is why I'm good at it.

et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, that definitely was real. I'm good at this. I get to touch people's lives with what I do. But I'm good at this. And I want to share this with you. I want to teach you what I learned. I get to touch people's lives with what I do. And it keeps me going and I love it. And I think if you give it a shot, you might love it too. I mean, that must have resonated with you.

It's true. Very few things a person can do for another person. Like you can write something, you can make, I don't know, a TV show, like you can make a show like Succession, you can cook for them, you can play music for them. It's not a long list. It's probably under 10. The South Beach Cubano's and the annoying police officer. Yes. Leading into the things are going well montage, which is always one of my favorites in any movie where we get lots of screens up.

The police officer's hilarious. I have Franklin's barbecue for... I didn't like the police officer bit. I thought that was fun. I like when he's like one. with the bread? That to me is the go take a pee break.

Oh, interesting. Okay. All right, we disagree. Franklin's barbecue, we did not disagree. No. That is just... I love the respect

to the church to Aaron Franklin, who's now like, you know, there are people that say that's better, but it's still my favorite. I think it's the best barbecue,

some of the very best in the world. And yeah, it's delicious. And for the people listening, it really is like that. There's just this giant fucking, he took us in there,

too, when we went this, giant thing in the back, you open it up, and there's just these huge things of meat. It's awesome. It sells that immediately. It's the best smell you've ever smelled. Your clothes smell after. Your hands smell after.

Your face smells. You're like in a half coma. Just seeing that on TV made me happy because I love that restaurant so much. Yeah. Well, he's like, I mean, he's one of the legends now. I really like the one second video montage. It was like TikTok before TikTok. Was that Vine?

I guess it was like a version of Vine. Yeah. Can I also say, do you think that this was the first movie that integrated social media, how they would show the typing on stuff on the screen? I think it was one of the very first ones. I had that in there. For better and worse, because some of it doesn't really work because they didn't get the graphics down yet. Right.

But yeah, you're right. You know what did that was House of Cards, the TV show did that too, which is right around then. Oh, yeah, you're right. They always had the text bubbles on this. Because I remember watching it for the first time, being like, I've never seen that before. Yeah. Yeah. And then the ending when the guy says he'll back him.

What a swerve. How realistic is that? You wouldn't have been back by this guy. You would have told him to go fuck himself and choke on his Cubano. 1,000%. Yeah. I probably would have started a competing newspaper site just to put him out of business. This is why we love each other.

No, I think, because at that point, he's probably like, this food truck's going great. I could get some backers. That could be a picking nits with this movie. It's like, you're doing it. awesome. Somebody's going to, we'll have backed you with the keep on it by now. All right, so what's the most rewatchable scene for you? There's three. Not one.

I think when he's making pasta for Scarlett Johansson after service. He makes alioioio, which is one of the easiest dishes anyone can make. It's garlic, olive oil, chili pepper, you can add parsley or not add parsley, the pasta water and spaghetti and salt. You're done.

like to me that was real that's what cooks would make because you don't need anything really yeah um and it's just always a funny thing to me that he's having sex with garlic johansom after making your pasta the power of food yeah yeah yeah yeah and uh the second one the second one is yeah the critic i love watching someone the critic getting like yelled at yeah just I was like, I've always wanted to do that. Yeah. Even though I don't know if I would do it like maybe I would, depending on the situation.

And the grilled cheese. Yeah. I had that in what stage the best. You're right. The grill cheese should have just been its own rewatchable scene. It's a good scene. But yours. I think I really just like being at Franklin's barbecue.

Yeah. That place made me so happy. We had such a great day there. And I just liked it. Aaron had the same look on his face when we hung out with him that he does in that entire. scene. He's just happy. So many people have told him, like, this is

the best thing I've ever eaten. Like, at some point, it just bounces off him. He's a good dude. And he's just a nice guy. My favorite thing in that scene was, he takes that pocket knife out and he cuts a chunk of that. Oh, yeah. So good. Best pure scene, though, is probably when he flips out on the critic is

just because you're waiting for it. It's building towards the building. It keeps on going. It's so long scene. It's great. Wood's age the best. The little kid is awesome. It is so hard to nail the little kid in these movies, and he's in a lot of scenes. He's carrying different weight with Favro in different scenes. He's got to get upset. He's got to be kind of funny.

He's got to be, like, the third man with Favron and Leguizama. I just thought the kid's excellent. I think the cooking scenes are both, like, age the best and age the worst. What's age the worst about them? Like, the technique and the vibe and the tension. and everything that's in the kitchen and some of the banter. They tried to nail, like, you know, the bacon and the oven and stuff like that. But I know Roy was behind a lot of this stuff.

So this is what I'm going to say, Roy. If I was making food in 2013 and they're using my dishes, it still would look old. And I always say the only thing that age is worse than comedy is food. Yeah. And food design. And just little things like this swoosh, like one of that, the dish with the shrimp that he does. You put a dollop down and you sort of make like a Nike logo. Yeah.

Nobody does that anymore. Unless you want to look like you're cooking in 2013. So it's the what's age is the best and the worst? Yeah. That's what I mean it's the best of the worst. I got you. I have for what's age the best. This is the most I've ever liked John Leguizamo and Bobby Carnival in a movie.

I didn't like Bobby. You didn't like Bobby in the movie? I thought he was weak sauce in it. But that's the whole point of the character, though. No, a real weak sauce, like sous chef like that is like way, a real weak sauce, like, more hungover, way less, like, involved. Interesting. And he's the person that gets hired and promoted, but everyone talks shit about.

And he's a disaster. Nobody felt that way about it, you know? It's never like a nice thing, in my opinion, when that guy gets. Did you buy that when he went to get drinks with them again? No way. He would never be there. He would never see that guy again. No.

Once he didn't go with you, that's a thing. You know, you're half a time. Yeah. This guy's fucking dead to me. Right. I mean, now... Just remember, Craig. In 2023, I'd hopefully have learned to be like, hey, like, you know, but there's a sense

of loyalty. It's like, hey, we're in this together. Yeah. And part of it is, I think it also attestment of Favreau, like, I'm not that person in that moment to be like, you know, you should. It's good for you. I think retrospect I would have, but I'd still harbor like, you know, you could have what Leguizamo did.

Right. Well, Leguizamo is amazing in this movie. He's very, very. It's so good. Ramsey, Michelle, the digital palette has aged the best. Just the whole concept and the name the digital palette's really funny. Like, that's actually something somebody might have come up with in the 2010s. But also, like, may not seem like believable now, but really believable back then.

A blogger that became famous and has his own website that he sold for a bunch of money. It's like all real. Yeah. Critics being haters for a chef has aged the best. I don't feel like we have that anymore. Gary Clark Jr. has aged the best. It's not like he's in this movie for a second. Like they linger on him as he plays two songs.

You know what I liked about it? There was no mention of his name. No. He was just playing in the background. And there was like, hey, there's Gary Clark Jr. Right. He was just in. Or like the awkward scene where he comes after like, hey, Gary, that was great.

Like they didn't do any of that. I like when Fabros says, you know what I am? I'm a meme, which felt pretty early. early on the meme, just to acknowledge that you've become a meme section of the arc of memes. Can I say how things have changed on social media is that all of the things that he was learning in 2013, his kid was teaching him about social media. Yeah. Now, I think most adults would know how to do it all that stuff, right? No question.

That's a crazy amount of change. It was a little early for Twitter. The bignettes. That's also, you know, I'd say one of my favorite things is Cafe Dumont. Have you been there in New Orleans? come on of course sorry I didn't know stop it would you have thought that Bill Simmons would have what are you talking about okay I know how do you go to New Orleans and not go there it's like the number of things you know to go to now I haven't been

in New Orleans since we went back to back in 13 and 14 and we we went for work both times and we had an unbelievable time but the the Benettes it's just it's weird nobody else has been able to replicate why they're special in New Orleans what is it I have no idea but cafe do more like if they were like if they were like like down the street and they're like hey they're making bignettes i would just assume they weren't as good because i think they put more powdered sugar i just it's one of the very few how many places can you think of that are like straight tourist trap attractions straight like that's what it is but also locals go there and it's really good right and it has an iconic something very very few places and that that is a

magical spot for sure new Orleans is one of my favorite favorite cities uh Zion Williamson feels the same way about the food. Well, and I can get it because every time I've gone there, I think I've put on like six pounds, and I feel like I'm sick for a week after, the PR person throwing Hell's Kitchen at Amos Dideras,

throwing that at Favreau is really funny. That was, strangely, one of my favorite bits in the whole movie. Don't you think that she nailed, at least for me, talking to PR people, what I hate about restaurant PR people is exactly, there's nothing she said

that wouldn't have happened in real life. Well, she says that one thing. She goes, he's like, this is going to haunt me forever. And she's like, no, there's so much news that there's so fast, there's so much white noise

that nobody remembers anything. Kind of true. Yeah. And like, hey, I'm going to deactivate my car. I'm like, no, no, no, no, you can make money off this. Right. I really, this is a really stealth LA thing.

I like that his new restaurant that he's working for that he doesn't really like with Hoffman, that it's in Brentwood. Perfect location. Do you know the farmer's market where the first scene is?

Yeah. Pasadena Farmers Market. I think it's the Pasadena Farmers Market. I thought that too, because it wasn't the Brentwood Farmer's Market. And it couldn't be Santa Monica. No. And it definitely wasn't one of it.

And it looks like his homes probably in Ketown area or downtown, his apartment. Yeah. And Sophia Vergara seems like she lives near the Santa Monica or Hancock Park. the concept of an owner battling with a chef that's age the best that's that's a time old tale corn starch on your balls yes can you tell us about this this is a real thing i have that written down as the life lesson i mean so this is a thing in kitchens not only is it a thing it is

just a commonplace acceptance that this happens so when i first went into a bathroom. I remember I was like, like one of my first days in a real kitchen, I kept on going back. It took me like a couple weeks to muster up the courage to ask like one of the soushe chefs. Like, hey, like, why are all these boxes of cornstarch in the bathroom? And why are they all open? And like there's cornstarch everywhere.

Like, Scarface was in here. Like, what the fuck is this? Right. And then he was like, you dip your balls in it. I was like, what? I was like, what are you talking about? I understand like people. Gold bonds I knew about, right?

But like, I don't know, cornstarch. And literally, anybody that's a guy working the line because it gets so hot, you get swamp ass immediately in like 30 minutes. And you're there for like five, six hours standing up. I wish somebody told me this when I bartended a waiter. Right? Yeah. Because you don't need to because you're in like a temperate climate.

I used to go in the bathroom and get like the big hunk of paper towels and just do it that way. What are you to do? They had like, that's a real thing. It's a real thing happens quite a bit. Especially if you're behind like any sort of bar situation that the part because all the heat coming off of the refrigerator. The cornstarch could have saved your life. It sounds crazy, but it's the real thing.

Cornstarch on my werewolves. That's what LeguZama says. For what stage the best, the soundtrack. It's Wayvos on his Wayvos. Oh, I thought he said werewolves. No, Wayvos. He's balls. Yeah.

Yeah. Wayvos. Oh, Wavos. Yeah. I thought Werewolves was funny. Soundtrack, which is Latin jazz, and we're on jazz and blues, and it moves through as they go to the different cities.

It's really good. And just in general, like the music has like a cool vibe. Just a fun movie to hang out with. And then we get Gary Clark on top of it. I was watching, and maybe this is a favorite scene, and maybe I could be totally wrong. When they're at the farmer's market and there's the marionette thing with the skeleton

and they're playing Al Green's, tired of being alone. Is that like a... And there's like a weird shot of Favro and then going to the skeleton that's being puppeted. Is that like a metaphor for him and the movie?

And like his real life stuff? I don't know, but... I almost put that in rewatchable scene because I did feel like... There's something there. He was trying to say something that went beyond the movie. I was like, you watch those like... Because I was like...

The only reason I bring that up, I watched it again because that was like a pee break moment to me. And then I watched it and I was like, why the fuck is this scene in here? Yeah. It's weird. It's weird, but he's definitely trying to tell us something.

The only other one I had for what's age the best is, how can I back that? You were one of my early boys when the critic says that to the chef and that whole concept of the critic having their guys, that they feel like they had, I'm sure you felt this. I have definitely been on that other end of the fact. People feel like they own stock in you because they wrote something nice and helped build you up.

And it's no different than say anybody that's not a food critic that said to themselves, oh, I can't support this band anymore. They're just like too mainstream. The Big Cahuna Burger Award for best use of food or drink. This is, I could say hands down, and since we've had this category, this is the toughest we've ever had for this.

And I narrowed it down to three nominees, Franklin's Barbecue, the grilled cheese, or when he makes hash browns. And I guess we could put in the pasta he makes for Scarlett Johansson as well. I was just trying to think of things. that made me the most hungry. The grilled cheese actually made me want to go make a grilled cheese, so I think that wins for me.

I've, you know, I watched a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff with Roy, and I've never seen anybody like DJ the bread before. Yeah. Might have to try that technique out. But we talked about this. You like all that cheese. I'm not, I'm a less cheese is better on a grilled cheese. You want the more.

The word in the street is your grilled cheese is just aren't that good. That's what Hugo told me. That's what I heard. This is how you have to make French fries. I heard you never really unsolved the, you never really cracked the code on grilled cheese. This is what we ought to do. I got to have a cooking throwdown with your mom.

You're going to lose on meatballs. I don't want that to happen to you. You figured out French fries. I at least inspired that. The Denny Thieves Benihanna Award for Scene Stealing location. I just love being in South Beach. You could also say French Quarter, too, but they capture like what South Beach

is like on a really nice day, which is weird people walking around. It's nice. And the women are pretty. I don't know. I like being there. South Beach is fun for 48 hours. Exactly. Maybe even 36.

But when you get there, it's like, whoa, this is great. Oh, my God. You feel like you're in like the south of France or something like that. Day four, you're ready. It's like, I got to get out of here. I don't know what to have for Great Shock Order Award for most cinematic shot. So I just went with a shot of all the meat at Franco Barbecue.

I'll go with the same. Yeah. It was just wasn't the most artistic shot, but it was amazing. the Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure This Character Was Actually Good at His Job I'm adding this to the list I didn't send this to you

Are we sure Any of the people were as good at their job As the movie made it seem Like for instance Carl Can you just make it some Cubanos Like how great could those Cubano's been Compared to

Again not that I didn't look at all the ingredients And I was like Could it be that good? but I'm also putting context of its day. Maybe it wasn't. It's also new. So I don't know. Head of its time,

but probably replicable, right? Yes. But it's also maybe the sides and everything else. Even my own restaurant, people said, hey, our noodles suck, but everything else is delicious. Right.

For me, it was, again, like, Bobby Caneval. Again, like, the food that, when he was in charge, because Casper quit. Yeah. And the food that he was putting out was straight guard.

You could just tell from Yeah, I'm just like, you can't. I mean, to me, I was like, that guy's a hack-ass motherfucker. You should never work here. Okay. What's age the worst? We mentioned the importance of food critics. I didn't think the on-screen Twitter graphics totally worked. It was kind of the primitive error of Twitter graphics.

They were hard to read. I liked it because it was so like... Did you read them though? I had trouble, like even just reading them. Maybe it was smaller TVs. But I like that bit because it was like, it put everything in the, context. Yeah.

I just couldn't see it. I have for what stage is the worst, quote, my kid and I saw you on Tosh Point O, you were hilarious. Did Tosh Point O exist? Is that a thing? Oh, yeah. Tash.

Oh, yeah. Early to death. No, huge. Daniel Tash. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I was trying to get him to come on my podcast

for like a year. He wouldn't do any press, but he liked me. What else did he exist? The worst. I mean, the food to me is, is, again, some of it,

the food that the critic ate that we saw it i thought it was fucking list if that was the food that made car car carol casper famous yeah it's like what was that about man like beef cheeks and beef cheeks no but even before that like the hits if those were his hits like what the fuck so you thought he needed some sort of no these were the hits eggs caviar with fingerling potato chips yeah That's like a classic arpege dish. Yeah. I'm talking about just chefs and iconic dishes, right? So it's based on a lot of these esoteric dishes.

Then it was just like scallops. And then it was French onion soup. Yeah. That made me hungry, though. Then it looked like a veal chop on potatoes, mashed potatoes and like two cherry tomatoes on top. And then the warm chocolate cake. I'm like, I understand why.

that had to happen because you're trying to tell a narrative. But when I take that out of context, if I'm just judging it on that, and then I put into consideration that it was Bobby Caneval at the past, making that food go out, like, not terrible. So what would you have added if they made you conciliary? No, I'm just saying like, I don't, what dish should he have had an extra dish? No, I don't, that I'm not, I have no idea. But like, if those were the hits for Carl,

Carl Casper, those dishes that I just talked about. And he's not doing that well. Then what the hell? Yeah, why am I going to? Maybe Miami wasn't that hot. Right. I don't know. Does that make sense?

Big fish in a small pot. Yeah, that type of thing. Ron Burger the Flutter Word, best time for a pee break. I have right after the Downy Seed when they're fixing the food truck. I think you can jump out of there for three minutes. I like that. P went out. For me, he was the cop.

Okay. Was there a better title for this movie? movie. I said burnt. Well, there's a whole story.

It was Chef versus burnt. There was a cease and desist at one point.

Sony cleared the title Chef and the chef and the other Burt movie,

which was written by Stephen Knight had to change their name to burnt came out

a year later with Bradley Cooper a movie that you do not like as much as

chef. I like both movies because I like food movies, but I like chef

way more than the thing. This is why the food in burn is so goddamn stupid. I can't even comprehend it. Everything that happened in chef as a food, like, is great in 2013, 2014,

and how they cook is all extremely realistic. Credit to Roy. Everything that happens in burnt is based on a bullshit true story. Like, none of that would ever happen, right? It just none of it, it makes me mad just thinking about how stupid the distance is. So you're not available for the burnt rewatchables. I would love to do a burnt rewatchables. All right.

Best quote. What do you have for best quote? I wrote it down. Where are we? I had, I had, I'm good at this. I get to touch people's lives with what I do. I think it's the enduring quote of this movie. I have it.

You know, I have the best quote. Carl Casters Waking can only be explained to the fact that you're eating all the foods that practice is. It's a good one. Let's take a break and then we're going to do some hottest takes. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is.

Just go to Carvana.com and to your license plate or Vin and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today.

Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. All right. It's time for the Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award. Did you bring a hottest take, or did you just want me to do mine? Do yours first. Go first. Chef Two, it's time.

Chef Two. Now we got to see the food world in 2023-24 through Carl, who has clearly been canceled by Scarlett Johansson's character or some sort of something. And now he's on the road back again. and he's divorced and his kid's grown up and doesn't want to be his sous chef and I just want to get back with the crew as he puts his life back together again.

Chef too. I'm greenlighting it right now. Can I give you my hot take on that? Yeah. That happens 48 hours after the wedding. Right after they open the restaurant. Sophia Vergara, I was like, what? Scarlett Johanson?

No, I'm back. They didn't get remarried at the end? Yeah, they did. Why would I get remarried this guy again? And then Scarlett Johansson is like the love interest. Like, I just thought she was great in it. Why she was the hostess or Somalié, I don't know. But we have her, we're going to deep dive her during Dion Waiters Award.

So you think Chef Too should have just been 48 hours later? They immediately get divorced. I was joking that I thought the next day it all falls apart. Okay. That's like a real chef life. Yeah. Went well for one day. Yeah.

Then El Hefe had like some sort of some dysentery scare. Exactly. It's a bathroom. Somebody sued because they choked on an oyster and it just goes to tell. Everything good that happens and the rush out world turns bad.

So, yeah. I couldn't find any casting what ifs, a rear movie where there was none. The Ruffalo Hanna-Rubeneck Partridge overacting award couldn't really find anything for this either. I do feel like there was a couple times when Favro was trying to seem like

he was getting emotional where he kind of dialed it up and made the John Favro I'm getting emotional face. in the critic scene well no like when he's doing watching the one second a day videos oh that's right that's talking to his son

he kind of when he drops his son off and he makes the John Favreau's sad face can I say that that was actually now they think about it probably my fast forward moment dropping off the son no the one second video one of your favorite bits because I just watched the movie I don't need to see

the one second clips of that again fair I liked it I'm corny though best that guy word Probably Russell Peters, the guy who played the police officer, he didn't like. That's Russell Peters? Yeah. Yeah, you like it. It's a good, that guy.

Is that the Dionne Waiters Award? No, the Oner's Award is right here. And this is, Craig, you tell me if this is about as loaded as we've ever gotten for Dion Waders. Our nominees, Scarlett Joe Hansen, Dustin Hoffman, Robert Downey Jr., Oliver Platt, Gary Clark, Jr., and Aaron Franklin, the barbecue guy. I think you're missing Amy Sedaris. Amy Sedaris. Let's throw her in, too.

I think for me, she's my Dionne Waiters. He Check Award. Really? Yeah. Because it was the most believable conversation outside of Riva. Like, Riva, that shit happens all the time. And I think that PR conversation happens all the time.

It was extremely believable. And, you know. Fair case. The winner is Robert Taney Jr. Well, it's my winner. You can have your winner. We can disagree. I think, you know, I think that's what most people would agree.

He comes in. There's, I don't even know. who the character was, we know nothing about him, and he just starts hitting 30-footers. Dremont's doing handoff plays with him. He's coming around picks, just firing up over his head. I think he'd five threes in five minutes. Could anyone else you know of played that role?

Literally nobody, not one actor. I thought about this, actually. I was trying to think like... DiCaprio? No. Not like that. Clooney would have tried. It wouldn't have gone as well. Nobody. Not one person.

Maybe Denzel, if he had more of a sense of humor, but I don't even think him. I don't think the person exists. This is like the perfect Robert Downey. And Favre would know. Favre would know because he's hung out with him. And I like that. He dipped into the friendship.

Also, Downey doesn't do shit like this. Just period. It's like the only thing he's done like this. Recasting couch. I love the casting in this movie, but I would have a Dave Chan cameo. They had Lucky Peach in there, so I'm okay. Yeah, but I don't know.

Could they... Would there have been a way to go to Washington, and then gone down, and you happen to be there that day complaining about Daniel Snyder. Chef, too, David Chegg is Daniel Snyder's personal chef? Trying to get him to sell the team. I don't know. I like the casting. Did you have anything you would change?

You know, I saw on the sheet like Danny Trailer. Here's what I would have done. I would have, and I love Bobby Cannevall as an actor. But I don't think he played that role well. It wasn't believable being hungover. That's not a hungover chef. That's been out all night. Should we go on Treo?

I think you move Leguizamo to the... Oh, we can't touch Leguizamo. He's such a good sidekick, though. But Danny Trejo as a cook is like a real thing. Okay. That is like a more believable Martin character. That's still extremely loyal, but maybe not as locacious. Have fascinating research.

Leguizamo spent time as an actual line cook at the Lion in West Village? Yeah, I actually think that he might have spent a night staging at noodle bar. Really? I swear to God I was trying to think about this

and I was trying to find emails. And he stager on at a bunch of restaurants. I swear, I think he stopped by noodle bar. Filming locations

in Miami included the Versailles restaurant. There's a classic. Classic. Flante Blue Hotel. Yep. Hoycoma air

in Little Havana. I probably said that wrong. Oa coma air? I don't even know. I don't know how it is. In New Orleans, there at Café Man. Austin,

Franco Barbecue and Gueros and South Congress. Congress. They improvised a lot of the food trunk scenes with the three to capture what it's like in a kitchen. You mentioned the chef show with Favre on Roy Choi. And I've been on.

On Netflix, 2019. Did a second season in 2020. El Hefe at the end when they're at that nighttime food truck event, that's based on an actual event in Venice called First Fridays. And you can briefly see Roy Troyes's truck. Boogie was in the background. Initional truck. And then Fabra said in the director commentary for some of the road scenes,

they used stock footage and put the truck in digitally, which that was pretty convincing. Apex Mountain. Chefs? Did it ever get better for chefs than 2014? It is definitely peak chef time. Peak chef, Apex Mountain. Favro, no. I actually think it's probably after Iron Man comes out.

I think we did that. Although, Van, I think, made the case for Mand. What did Van say for Favreau and Apex Mountain? Iron Man, I think. I think it was Iron Man. I think we agree in that. You guys don't think it's the Mandalorian? Or as an actor director.

Because he... He thought it was Mando, and then you explained why Iron Man he had more juice. Yeah. Twitter. It's peak Twitter. Right? Two years later, Trump ruins Twitter, and then Twitter turns into this just... Or do you consider that peak Twitter?

I think 2014, there was still something fun about Twitter. It was still promotional, but it wasn't what it became. I mean, everything in 2014 seemed possible in a good way. Right. It's true. Wow. It was one of the last nice areas we've had. It was an Apex Life.

Yeah, maybe it was. Food critics definitely, unless you would say like two years earlier. I'm also going to say hot take. Apex Cubano. Sandwich. I had Cubano's next. I love a Cubano. When have Cubano's ever been used better?

Do you want to do Cuban? Now, because I had this in unanswerable questions. Okay, let's go. Want to do it now? Let's go. Why aren't they more in my life? I can't remember ever being like,

hey, man, there's this place that has these great Cubano's do you want to go and me saying like, now that sounds terrible. Or, hey, I made you a Cubano. Do you want a bite? Like, I'd love a bite. It's just for some reason they kind of fell by the way, the sandwich wayside in a way that I don't totally understand.

And they don't seem that hard to make. They're delicious, number one. Yeah. And it's one of the very few sandwiches I like mustard on. I'm not a mustard guy. It's got, you have to have a steady thing of pickles in there. It's got everything. The fat, if I have to be critical, I think the ham is unnecessary.

Usually a slice of ham. So you would just grilled cheese with no meat. No, there's ham and there's like deli ham and there's like roast pork leg in there. Oh, and the official and the kibon. And I think they put the ham in there too, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. But you don't see Cubano's maybe because there's not. I can't remember the last time I've had one.

I didn't really remember what's in it. In New York, I would get them a bunch. So what's, you're making a Cubano for me? What are you putting in it? Pork, no ham? Long French bread, soft. Here's the thing. If I'm going to make it for you, I'm going to try to make it as like the real version.

And then me, I probably would probably put some other salted pork in there. But you really need that for the salt because it's a lot of meat that may not be seasoned. So that's why I think the ham slice has an actual legitimate reason to be in there, but I probably would put something else in there. So when they go to Franco Barbecue and they make it with the Franco Barbecue meat. That's the one I want to eat. That looked like the single most delicious sandwich you could ever make your life. That would be sick.

We got Philippe's French dip last week actually post-made it, but put the sauce on the side and then toasted the French dip a little bit more, and then it was fucking great. It was fucking great. The Cubano is really great because it's a walking and eating sandwich. Right. It's a great walking eating sandwich. Not super drippy if it's made correctly.

No. Yeah, it seems like pretty replicable. Underrated. Apex Cubano also criminally underrated. Still. Yeah. I don't even know where you can. Can you even get one?

It's like the Robert Horry of sandwiches. Sophia Vergara. I'm going to say probably it's a couple years earlier when she's on Modern Family just getting nominated for Emmys. year after year, but it's right around her apex. Probably maybe a year before. The TV show Hell's Kitchen, I think Apex Mountain. I think it's still Apex. My son still watches it on YouTube.

It's one of the biggest shows. My son loves it. It's huge. You know, I never told you this because I thought you'd get mad. But my son said to me, Dad, why doesn't Chang make a show like Hell's Kitchen where he just yells at everybody? It's been pitched. Because he would never do that. We'll see. He loves watching Gordon Ramsey and just yell at people. Ramsey is like Eminem at yelling at people.

He really is. Yeah, it's tough to match. Apex Mountain for South Beach. I'm going to make the case right now. No way. LeBron's still there. The heat of won during the finals four straight years. Yeah, maybe for that.

Miami's the thing. Miami. All the hotels have really rounded in a shape in a real way. The word is out that Miami is actually like the cool place to go and have fun for five days. and it's a little under the radar, you're not getting captured by paparazzi. All the celebrities are going down there. At that point with South Beach,

it was known that NBA teams, like, don't bet on them the day in an afternoon game after they've been in South Beach. I feel like the legend of South Beach was really going at this point. Maybe for sports and nightlife, but for food, it's this year.

It's since the pandemic. 21, 22, because there was no rules. Yeah. You can do whatever you want. So many people moved down there to operate. and it's become like one of, if not the best food cities in America. Really? It's crazy, yeah, for sure.

It's apex. Well, you've talked about this on your pot, so I shouldn't sound the surprise. But what's like that, what's the number one restaurant there now, in your opinion? Or what's like the number one? But everyone's going to Carbone and all their iterations of it. Okay. Bignettes? I think underrated, not Apex.

People don't know. I was trying to think maybe in a movie. Probably in a movie. I've never seen it in another movie. Yeah, they did a good job. And then Roy Choi. It's peak powers at this point. Right around when he won the award.

He's got the truck. He's helping Favro make a movie. I think it's still, I think the chef, more, I don't know how many people watch the Netflix show. Okay. Fair. That's like, to me, that's when, when people watch Netflix shit, like, really pops.

Any other Ipex Mountain for you? No. Okay. Best racehorse name from this movie. El Hefe is obviously the winner. I put Ramsey Michelle. Ramsey Michelle's good. I also like Cubano.

It's like, here comes Cubano. Picking Nits. Why is Annes so wealthy? What's her deal? Is it because it's from Robert Downey's character? And I think Favreau's character implies that she's an actress that... I don't... This is a good picket because there's a backstory with her that I don't totally understand.

It's just like they were married and she was rich. And that's it. They leave it alone. probably could have been explained in 20 seconds by somebody. Just show around and, oh, one of your old shows is running and it's like her on like, you know, the OC. I just need to know what happened. How did that relationship? Yeah.

Well, we know he was a lot skinnier when he lived because the critic says that. I mean, still, a skinny, we know what a skinny fabro looks like. Friends Favro. Right? We know what the skinny Favro looks like. Is that good enough to land her? She loved food. That's what I'm trying to say.

So I want to know what were the dishes? People say this about grace. They're like, how did he get grace? This is true. This is true. No, I think he probably was like a big celebrity in Miami, right? I don't know. That's why we need a prequel.

I'm with you that it does seem a little far-fetched that in like the 2002 range, somebody would have emerged as a celebrity chef in Miami. John, don't get pissed at me. I'm just telling you. I understand why, but it just is like, I get it. I get why it happened. No, they're picking a hit for me. Would Twitter really drive that many people in New Orleans to a Cubano truck in 2014?

It was how people found food. Even in the French quarter when there's a million things to do? Nationally. Okay. We did the, well, the next category is better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Catherine Hahn, Steve Boshamy, Sam, Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Philip Baker-Haw. We don't have CR coming into Wayne Jenkins. You already said, the answer is Treo. I had them written down, too.

I will say too Catherine Hahn is probably the more believable Somalié than Scarlett Johansson to me Fair. Fair. They did try to make Scarlet like seem like that the restaurant Matre Deh who's

definitely like left home when she was 17 and you know. I mean again friend all the Marvel movies but I just think when I talk to people about chef they're always at least in the color community, you know what they always say?

It's like, how did that guy land Scarleto Hanson? Jubbed in the latest. Just want to ask Oscar who gets it? This is maybe controversial, but I'm giving it to the Oscar winner, historic, I mean, he's won a handful, what, Dustin Hoffman? Hoffman for Best Supporting Actor.

It was very, very, very brief, but very believable. I put Legu Zamo. I love him in this movie. Best Supporting Actor. He's just so additive. He doesn't have a bad, like, second in this movie. All his lines are great. I just don't think he exists for your life.

I love what shows up. I love when he gets the guys to come over to help them move the stuff because he promised him sandwiches. Great stuff. Best double feature choice with this movie. I like the idea of Swingers and then Chef. I also like the idea of just doing Chef Burnt combo, just banging out mid-2010's food movies. What was Favro's movie he did with Vince Favre's movie? Vaughn where they're boxing. I like that one too.

Okay. So what's your pick? But I'm not going to go to that. I think you, if you're going to do food, I'm going to say, eat drink, man, woman. Yeah. Not big night. And Ratatoui. Oh. I think Ratatoui is still like, I've heard this thing. The best, one of the best culinary movies of all, like for fine dining. Yeah. It covers so many things. Probably unanswerable questions. Is it possible for the Cuban or to have this much power and

potency? So again, to get granular here, it's possible if they were like making their own flour with their own special sauce in it yeah yeah and everything's like custom designed yeah but they're just buying from wherever or the farmer's market so like listen it's a movie i'm going to give it it's belief that yes it can happen but in real life i don't think so you have any of their answerables i still want to know his career to me that's the most fascinating as a chef How did he wind up in Miami? How did he wind up in L.A.?

The prequel? So you want prequel? I want the prequel. I think that would give everything a nice sort of tie all my questions I have together. Andy and Red Zwannee Award for what happened the next day is... Divorce. Well, here's my other question. In 2023, is El Hefe still open?

That's a good question. Did it change hands? Well, I think this is what happened. Good idea for a restaurant. I would go to El Hefe tonight. I think that for sure. those partners culinary partnerships rarely ever work out

yeah they always end up in divorce especially with a food critic and yeah yeah for sure they're not together anymore no probably the son doesn't like John Fabro too much the son found girls and he was out

he's like dad I can't help you prep the and do you think that he's still married to Sophia Vigara probably not do you think maybe he found a relationship with Scarlett Johansson probably not probably a third one. Probably, I don't know, some customer that came in or something.

What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I actually have it. I don't have it on because I was trying to find it for this, but it's in storage somewhere. Is Favro, so this is a good story. Before the movie came out, he wanted my notes on it. So I went to his house and I saw it in his home theater. and he gave me a gold coin that said chef on it.

So only the people in production got this gold coin. Wow, that's a good. Yeah. Craig, if we had somebody in the category, actually had a member really? No, I think we've made history there. Legitimately, there are gold coins, probably not real gold, but who knows? And it's a chef with the whole logo and everything on it.

I have the food truck. That'd be just a cool thing to have. The food truck from chef. Yeah, just like in your backyard. What's that? The food truck says Kubano's on it. Coach Finstack will wear Best Life Lesson. It's cornstarch.

You had cornstarch. I think Do What You Love is a good lesson from this movie. One of the reasons I like it. It's all about the battle between doing something that's good that puts you professionally in the right spot or following whatever your heart is and going that way and hoping it's going to work out. I think that resonates with me.

I think the life lesson, too, is... taken the chance on yourself. Yeah. Right? I think we've all, particularly you have had experience working for companies that feel like they're limiting

what you're allowed to do. And, you know, I think the food truck was a good... You talk about today? So it's like, I think it's a perfect expression, right? It's like a food truck is literally the... It's the bet on yourself ultimate thing you can do as a chef. Total freedom. Yeah.

Which is why a lot of my peers did it. And they were like, wow, this is super hard. Right. This fucking food truck life is so hard. Who won the movie? it's got to be Fabro. Favro? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean... No question. Roy Choi also wins. I think a lot of people win in this movie. And Cubanos. It's a happy movie. Frankel barbecue wins.

Yeah, there's no one... Even the ending as sort of... It ends. Everything is happy. Yeah. Which is what you want in a rewatchable. Well, now we get producer Craig's take. I love this movie.

I've seen it a million times. I love... I really feel like food content done right is the most enjoyable thing you can watch on television. I think it's number one. Sitting back and just watching a great food show, I think, is unparalleled. I also think this is one of the most accurate social media movies ever made. Wow. I feel, thank you.

I think the relationship between, like, parents and kids during that time and what the kids knew about, like, the burgeoning social media landscape and the parents not really getting it. I thought, like, all that was just, like, very, very accurate. Him describing Twitter, not knowing it's public. I just think that would all happen. The scene when Favro drops off his kid and he just goes really fast because he's got to get back to work,

I was like, that's so real, right? There's many things that he nailed in terms of the relationship of people. So yeah. You know what was a great part? I thought to piggyback off that is the grilled cheese scene. He makes the grilled cheese

and they clearly make it very cinematic. It's like a food porn for one minute, right? And you're like very into it. It's super sexy. It looks fantastic. He slides it to his kid. The kid's on his phone. He takes a bite.

And he goes, this is good. And Favre was like, you're damn right. It's fucking good. Right. Which I think is like such a great way to like see the relationship between. And I was going to ask you that question. Like, do you ever make something you think is like incredible? And your kid's like, it's not bad.

You're like, damn right. It's not bad. It happens every day. And I tell him, even though he doesn't understand when I tell him this to Hugo's like, one day, when you're not living under this house, you're going to tell your friends like, man, I really screwed up not enjoying all the amazing food. Yeah. It's all downhill.

from there for your son. We brought Chan to Augusta, and he made pantry pizza one night, and then he made nachos the other night. Nacho Mountain. I just want to know, I appreciated every moment of it, even though I felt sick for a week after from having extra dinner at midnight. Well, it was really for Joe House. Yeah, at Hubbard.

He loved it. Well, Hubbard really is the secret eater. I know we should have been talking about this right now, but that was a real shock to me. Hubbard's the pizza eater. Wow. It's shocking. He came over to watch basketball last week, and, I was ordering pizza, so I just got an extra one because I knew he was coming,

but he was going to a dinner. And I got this third pizza from Lucifer's, which is like this really thing. And he's like, no, I can't have that. I'm going to have dinner. And I'm like, you sure? And I kind of opened the box and he kind of looked in and he had one, he ate the whole pizza before the dinner. Like really one of the premier pizza. House can't compete on the pizza.

Everything else he competes on. Two, they're tight team. Do you feel like the Netflix show, the chef show, which I, I think everyone enjoys. He's like a nice bookend companion because it's the same vibe, same feeling. Everything's upbeat. Everyone sort of...

They're interesting stories, but it's not like overly foody. Everything is accessible. It's funny. It has the same tone to me. If you're not in the mood for like a chef's table, it's the perfect show. Also, this movie, this is like a weird meta movie.

Because it's like... The show after it is like, it's like half the movie. And like you knew Roy Choi was involved and you knew Favro like wanted to come. kind of get into food. It's like there's almost like a little mini chef universe that is not. Most movies don't really do that.

Where you can like create like a reality show off of a movie. No, and it wasn't just like a one and done. I know like a lot of people use like an expert in their field and they like never talk to them again. Like Favro and Troy have like a real serious friendship. Didn't they think about opening like an L. Hefe? Yeah. I think that still might happen.

Who knows, right? Does that ever bother you when a non chef is like, I'm going to try to take on being like food guy now? I'm going to be an food influence. Talk about Kimmel? No, Kimmel's a really good cooking too. Kimmel's another one who taught himself how to be as good of a cook as anyone else. I mean, TikTok has changed my life with cooking.

I love to cook and TikTok. It's like my whole feet. Oh, shit, I guess you get on that TikTok. Yeah. No, but like. But Kimmel's a good example of this. Like, he's a very meticulous person. If he does something, he's going to actually do it to the nth degree.

I mean, he has a tandoor of it. Right. I don't know anybody that has a tandoor oven in the backyard. It's awesome. I love going to his house. There's so much culinary shit to cook with. And Favreau actually has a kitchen. Yeah.

He's got a whole professional kitchen in his backyard where he does a bunch of his filming. So, again, like, the reason why people don't make enough culinary content on TV and film, because I've done that. I joke, I'm the reason why Tramay got canceled because of my performance in season two. It's hard because you have to match the shots. And actors can't really learn how to cook. and professional cooks cannot act. It's a little like sports, right?

Where you have the wrong person in a sports movie, it just sinks it. And Favro, I swear to God, I was always impressed. He was the only person I've ever met that I'm going to learn how to do this. You hear this? Oh, like Bradley Cooper, spend like three months doing... No, he didn't.

Like, I don't believe any of that shit. Yeah. But Favro really loves cooking and he taught himself how to cook. Like, his knife skills are actually, like, legit. That first scene was a real flex. You could tell they were like, all right, we're going to skip it right in the...

bud at the beginning and show that like he knows what he's doing and it was important that like the thing that what i wanted to say is like the like even again even my food in 2013 14 would look aged today even though it's still delicious i'm just again nitpicking but the movements in the kitchen for favre we're real yeah like all all the things like the clanking on the spoon the it's like how i feel about woody harrison and white man can't jump where i'm like oh he's a real basketball player i can just tell every movement that he makes so they nailed that so it's good and It's not a food movie that is, like, depressing. Like, Burns depressing in a lot of ways.

We never mentioned dinner for five, which was a pretty influential. Do you know about that show? No, what? How do you not know about this? Fabro had the show in the 90s after Swingers. It's amazing. And he would just have four other actors on, and they would just tell stories and eat. And some of the people would get drunk.

And some of the episodes, like, people get mad at each other. And it's just thing, nobody's, no PR person would ever let their person on a show like that now. You said people telling stories about when they, you know, they're on the set with an actress and they had a love scene and they took it right to the trailer and like crazy shit. Wow. That would just never happen now. It's good. Does it still exist?

Where can I watch it? I think it's on YouTube. Yeah, it's good. But Fabro, but the reason it kind of didn't work was you're watching these people eat. It was kind of disgusting. It's actually not that fun to watch people just. But the stories were hilarious. The stories were great.

Was it at a restaurant or at somebody's, It was always at different restaurants. It was actually kind of an imitated show after that nobody kind of landed the plane on. But I think like she might have been the only person that could do it. Because he had all that. So they had to have Vince Vaughan on. They would have Ola Fan. I remember he was on.

He was great. It was all people from that generation. It's good. You would like it. This is right around when he did one of the best sports movies of all time, which is the replacements. Right. We bulked up for that one.

Have you done a rewatchable on the replacements? On the list. Oh, man. So good. It's one of the great Washington football moments for the last 25 years. It's like the best. All right. This podcast was produced by Craig Horlebeck.

Thanks to our friend Dave Chang for finally stopping by. If you want to hear more from Dave talking about food trends and talking to food people and talking about culture and life, the Dave Chang show. I remember the day when I taught you how to do an intro. This is true. Which took about four days. I was so nervous. Yeah. Now you do these seamless intros.

It's like you're a real podcast person. I was so nervous. Bill was looking at me like, what are you, why is this so hard for you? You were like reading off this sheet and it was, you were like Luca Bratzit and the godfather on this day of your child, yet he buried. But you figured it out. It's true. All right.

Thanks for coming up. Thanks, Bill.