The Rewatchables - ‘Dead Poets Society’ With Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: June 12, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, and Chris Ryan seize the day as they rewatch the 1989 classic ‘Dead Poets Society’ starring Robin Williams, Robert Sean Leonard, and Ethan Hawke. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Coming up, Chris Ryan, Natalie Rubin, and I are going to talk about Dead Poet Society. Captain My Captain. You going to cry yet, Val? The tears are starting. That's coming up right now. Dare to walk a new path. Dare to strike out and find new ground. Touchstone Pictures presents Robin Williams.

Well, is this a dagger I see before me? In the most highly acclaimed movie of the year, Robin Williams, he'll make you laugh. I like fire and I give him a 42, but I can't dance to it. He'll make you feel. Seize the day. I'm going to do it. He'll make you care. Medicine, law, business, engineering.

These are noble pursuits of poetry. Romance, love. He's what we stay alive for. Touchstone Pictures presents dead poet society. Discover for yourself what all the cheering is about. All right. I love this movie. This is the emo trio.

It's 30 years old. This is the heartfelt, real, like, emotions. Emotions run through this podcast. It's 30 years old. It's timeless because it's set in another time. So right there, it's, it's, Set in the 50s, it feels like this movie 40s, 80s, medieval times.

1959. Yeah, man. 59. 59. So it's not like a movie from 1989 that feels like it's like, oh, 1989, but it's actually set in the 1950s. Vintage Robin Williams.

Vintage super young cast of people that when you saw the movie, you're like, oh, all of these people are going to go on great things. Taps into the English major side. Boy, does it. I know you guys have. I fight it off, but this one got me.

30 years later, what's your favorite thing about this movie, Chris Ryan? This was a really weird rewatch to go back to because I think it's the first time I've seen this movie where I'm closer to Keating's age that I am the kids. Oh, interesting. So it was definitely a experience this time where I was thinking a lot about Keating and Keating's character more than the kids. And how he got railroaded?

Yeah. But I mean, for me, this movie is, you know, we did this a lot with Fielder's Dreams. For as magical as that movie is, there's a lot of really universal stuff happens with it. And I think that most people, and specifically the people who work in our industry and work with words or work with communication, have a origin story of how they fell in love with this stuff. And it's usually because of a teacher. It's usually because of one or two or three teachers that they had who taught. them that literature was something that you could love as well as study.

And that it could be your life. And that's like this movie captures that. That captures that relationship. Because a lot of the times I had somebody like that, this guy when I was in early high school, who was, you know, just teaching the usual text to us, Lord of the Flies, Tale Two Cities, Scarlet Letter, but was also like the first adult who took me seriously. And it just winds up changing your life if it clicks in the right. right way. You know what I mean? I'm already

Oh God. Already emotional. That was so beautiful. Yeah, that was well said, Chris Ryan. Oh, I'm deeply moved right now. Okay. I don't care what fantasy says. I don't think you're overrated. Oh, man. Boy. Oh, my God. I mean, what Chris just said is a microcosm of the power of the movie itself. Yeah. You know, finding the courage to just say something that you believe and not care what other people think. and if they're going to think that it's silly or stupid

and just to believe in what you believe in because you know that it matters to you and that eventually you'll find other people that it matters to also. I was thinking as well about those formative years in high school and the teachers who really unlock something for you and help you believe in yourself and your own abilities to just think about life and literature and who you are and what the world is and what it's all about, obviously.

I've spoken before on many podcasts about how my dad first gave me those stories too. And it's just really cool to think back to that time in your own life and those universal themes about, you know, self-expression and choice and nonconformity, but also the power of community and how stories can help forge that community. It's just really special. Shouts to Miss Lillequist and Mr. Reed, the two high school teachers who were that for me. Yeah. Great people. Mr. Mitchell for me. Yeah, I told my daughter, because she's going to high school next year, I said, you're going to have three or four.

teachers slash coaches that change your life. So she's already had one soccer coach that has had a huge effect on her. So there's one. There's probably three left. But I think everybody has three or four that just you can look back when you get older. And you'd be like that before I met that person, I was here. And then this happened. And I know who mine are.

I'm sure you guys know who yours are. But I think that's also my favorite thing about this movie, not just the teacher part, but the acting is so good by the kids. kids. Yeah. The movie doesn't work as well, I don't think, if those actors aren't great. And I left this movie 30 years ago. I remember who I saw it with.

I saw him a buddy Jim Grady. I thought Robert Sean Leonard was going to be like the biggest star in the world. Me too. Yeah. Me too. If you told me he was going to be the next like Pacino, I would have believed that he was so great in this movie and he's so enchanting. I don't think any of us saw the Ethan Hawk thing coming, which was this unintended benefit

of this movie as a rewatchable, which five years later, he's in reality bites, which you've done on a pod. And it's like, that's a kid from dead poets. And now he's Ethan Hawk. But in this movie, there's like the seeds of Ethan Hawk. And he's doing a lot as an actor in this movie that I don't think you realize he's doing. Really tough part. In 1989.

And it's just, and it's also like all of the things I've ever liked about Robin Williams, who is for better and worse, I think people love him, certain things, don't like them and other things. This is like the best version of him. Yeah, it's really hard to explain. to people who are like maybe 20 years young, younger than us and who are watching this movie. And they only know Robin Williams, obviously from,

you know, life tragically cut short, but know him from his movie work. To know, to like, you probably grew up with him on sitcoms. I would experience. I remember happy days.

I knew his comedy albums. We would like kind of play a little bit in school. And then also like, you know, um, comic relief was really big. So you would see like once a year, you would see his stand up or something like that.

Yeah. do these like, frankly, like, if not Coke-fueled, like, you know, energy, energy-driven stand-up routines. Well, it was also his late-night appearances, too, were a big part of the Bob Williams thing. Yeah, but he was like the biggest, one of the biggest comics out there, right? Oh, yeah. I think he was, it was him and Richard Pryor for a couple years there. And then 86 to 97 or 86 to 98 or something, it would be kind of like if Jezelnik

tomorrow became the biggest actor in the world who also was nominated for four Academy Awards in 10 years. It's hard to explain to people the leap he made because they only know him as like it's like Mrs. Daffire. He was always just like an actor, right? It's Robin Williams. But when you saw Good Morning Vietnam,

you were like, holy shit. It'd be like if Jeff Ross was not, no. It's actually, it wouldn't be like that. No, yeah, it's, I think he was somebody that we always thought was exceptionally talented though. Because, you know, Mark and Mindy, if you watch those reruns now, it's like, how the fuck was this the number one show?

And, you know, it's just an absurd show. And it'll only work because he was so great in it. That's one of the things that's so special about this performance too is, I mean, in many ways, the movie, which obviously we all love, that's why we're here, it can be very self-serious at times. And the moments where he injects comedy and levity and that improvisational spirit, you know, doing the voices when he's teaching the kids Shakespeare and things like that. Yeah, he's still actually injecting that DNA that might have been more familiar to people before this, but it's this whole new version at once and that marriage and that harmony feels totally organic. Do you feel like this was a sports movie for English majors? Yeah, in a lot of ways. It was like the natural. Because I remember in college, this movie came out when I was in college. One of our roommates, the Wormshon Krauss, who was like big English major, like wrote a crazy Hunter Thompson type column for our newspaper and was just really in, like he went to Prague junior years.

Went to Prague? Went to Prague. But this was like his movie and we used to argue about it. And it was the same year Field of Dreams came out. And I really liked this movie. I think I like it more as I've gotten older. Yeah. It was kind of like Field of Dreams, Bull Durham or my movies.

And then Dead Poets was like for him. And there was a little bit of attention. That has the same mechanics of putting the team together to. Those kids are all just like, well, I got to do trig homework. We got to do history homework. And then they all of a sudden become this sort of rag tag band of artists. I do want it to touch a little bit on like when it's set. You know, you mentioned that kind of it feels a little bit timeless.

but I hadn't really thought about it when I saw it probably the first few times. But, you know, this is pretty much the kids in this movie in 59 would be a little bit younger than my mom was at 59. And I remember she used to tell me a lot. Like, she grew up in like a lefty Jewish New York family. Her father was a teacher. Like, like pretty progressive for the time.

But even then she would be like, I would write poetry and he would go through it with a red pen. and like adjust the meter and correct typos. He wouldn't be like, this is an incredible expression. Yeah. He was reading Dr. Pritcher. That's right. The perfection scale.

But this was a time period where there was still, like, even in the most sort of liberal progressive families, like a pretty domineering parenting style, I think, was pretty consistent there. And right around then, so like, I think Rebel Without a Cause comes out in 55. Yeah. And on the road, I think is 57, but I could be wrong. but like there's like this explosion where like now all of a sudden you walk look around. Yeah.

And my mom always told me about like when Rebel Without a Cause came out, it was like the first time she'd ever seen someone act the way she felt James Dean. Yeah. And you can tell that that's supposed to be who these guys are. That they're like just sort of starting to get in touch with like we don't have to be like our dads. Well, wasn't that was Ebert's biggest criticism of the movie that they kind of ignored that whole side of things? Right. That you didn't have them.

reading Carowack and Ginsburg and boroughs along with the classics. Tony New England kids, right? Like, they were pretty... Like, I don't know... I didn't know... I don't know how prevalent on the road was back there. The Vermont boarding school kids. Yeah.

Did you go to boarding school? I did a PG year one year. Okay. Yeah. Here's the thing. I love boarding school movies. Great. Yeah.

Even Toy Soldiers I really liked. Dude, I love Toysolgers is really good. Is that Ashton's... Apex Mountain. By the way, season nine of rewatchables, we'll be doing Apex Mountain. Do you like taps?

Yes. I'm not kidding when I say I like every single boarding school movie. And I think this is the best one. So it's like, all right, what do I like about boarding school movies? Well, you're taking, you're putting all this, especially you're putting all these boys together, and there's just

a lot of shit going on with that. Anytime there's a woman introduced, it's like, almost like introducing an alien to their whole weird world. The teachers have a huge impact. And there's always like, you can pretty easily do like, all right, that guy's the jock. That guy's the love struck woman.

You can hit the archetypes really easily. And then you can put romance together, which is the other thing. So you have, in this movie you have Neil. I'm not going to do it yet. You have Neil. I can see your lips. Twitch.

Neil. You have him who's like the star of the class basically. And then you have Todd, the legacy brother, who's just afraid of his own shadow. And now they're thrown together and they have to get along. And their relationship as it develops, that's what boarding school is. And that's why I couldn't believe I sent you guys the deleted scenes from the Laserdisc. And there's this one scene of them practicing lines for Neal's play. And I couldn't believe they didn't put that in.

Because it was like, that's the most important relationship in the movie. It's those two. It's not Mr. Keating's proxy for how these kids are going to grow. but it's like those two are the heart of the movie, I think. Yeah, the desk throwing scene is so touching. Did you guys stay friends with the people you roomed with your first year of college? Like, was roommates, were you like, I easily can be friends with like whoever I'm like asked to live with? Or were you a little bit more like, I can't wait to get out of here and get my own place?

My dearest friends to this day, other than you guys, of course, and Halo, my cat, are, the people I met on my freshman year dorm floor and the people from my like journalism school orientation group. Carmel and Anthony and Akeem Warwick. On my friends from college, I was on the same floor with a freshman year. Yeah. You just get thrown together and that's it. That's the thing. It has to be a high school movie because the difference in like what we're talking about with the teachers, obviously people have teachers who have to play a outsized role in their lives who come into their lives in college as well, but there's something just fundamentally different about where you are and as you're discovering who you are as a person in high school to college. But the boarding school

aspect facilitates that part of the college experience in the high school years. And that gets back to your question too about is it like a sports movie in a way. Well, what's a society? What's a club? It's a team. Sure. And what's just the floor in the hall where you sleep and the people you take class with and you're studying your chemistry books with? All of that is a sense of team and community. and there's something that you actually, like even with your spouse and your family, you never quite replicate again in your entire life, other than that college or boarding school experience, or maybe like summer camp is the only other thing that approximates it where every single thing you do in your life, every single thing you're sharing with the same people.

So the poetry scenes are like the sports scenes in a sports movie? Yeah. I mean, they're literally kicking soccer balls as they're reciting lines. I have questions about the soccer scenes earlier. So I went to Temple for a year before I transferred to Emerson. You're just sucking up to, oh, Temple of the college. Yeah, no, yeah. I thought he made an actual temple.

No, I was sucking up to mouth. It's like, second Jewish? I went to Temple University for a year before I went to Emerson. And my, I grew up pretty close to Temple. So I didn't, I went and moved into Temple freshman year. And then I was like, this is crazy. Why do I have to like share a bathroom? I could just move home.

because I want to transfer anyway. But the first night I stayed at Temple, I remember I met this guy who I was assigned to live with, and he was like, hey man, do you like fish the band? And I was like, I've never heard them. And he was like, do you want to come see fish with me? And I was like, I was going to go meet up with like a friend from high school tonight. And I always think about like, what would have happened if I got at a fish concert?

That's a sliding doors moment in your life. Seriously, because the door would have slid. I probably would have taken mushrooms and I never would have been. Right. It's sliding down the aisle. I would have been called like hacky sack. And I would have been dealing LSD

outside of like the Great Jones Pavilion. You'd have like an art carfunkle perm right now. Yeah, exactly. A black light in your room. Yeah, it is funny. All right. So this movie is nominated for an Oscar in 1989. No small feat.

That was a pretty good year. Made $235 million worldwide. Fifth highest for 1989. People really came out for this, and this is on top of the year before Good Morning, Vietnam, Robin Williams. Now he's an A-plus Lister. Right. It won Tom Schulman, the best original screenplay Oscar. It was based on his experiences at the Montgomery Bell Academy in Nashville, Tennessee.

He had an inspirational teacher named Samuel Pickering. 7.3 Rotten Tomatoes. I don't understand what people are doing out there. Roger Ebert's review largely negative, two out of four stars. Criticized Williams for spoiling an otherwise credible dramatic performance by veering into his comedian's persona and wrote, quote, A collection of pious platitudes. The movie plays lip service to qualities and values that on the evidence of the screen bay itself,

it is cheerfully willing to abandon. Wow. Tough one for Raj. Rodge is in a slump now on the rewatchable. He had a really good start of the year, and then it's kind of flipped on. What was Raj's take on Austin Powers, too? Not a fan.

Didn't like it. I stand with Raj. So one of the con cards with this movie was the cast. And I remember in the marketing of it, it was like, we went out and we found these awesome actors. Which I don't, do you remember that happening before this? Yeah, I mean, I had four people. Well, there was a bunch of movies. I remember when you would like read premiere movie line back in the late 80s and the 90s.

Yeah. There would be the news and note section. in the beginning where it would be like casting rumors and stuff. And there would be movies like this like flatliners. I remember. It was like, what are we doing? I love flatliners. What are we doing?

Kiefer. Every young star in Hollywood is reading for this role. You know what I mean? Like it would just be these like ensemble young movies where it was like anybody from 15 to 22 is basically trying out to get a part in these movies. And I would imagine. It's like when we're hiring a new blogger. I was watching a video of like I was like however many years.

years later, 25 years later or something, 20 years later, because the Hawk looks pretty young in the video. They're talking about the process. And Robert Sean Leonard said he read like three or four times before he even tested for Peter Weir, the director, then screen tested with Hawk. So he was like it was endless. Callback, callback, callback, chemistry tests with different people. So it sounds like a lot of different people were up for these roles. And they changed directors. Yeah. Right? So that delays the process considerably too, I would think. Burning down sets. This has become. one of my favorite things when I have famous actors on the pod

asking about like their class because they're all like, you know, testing for the same parts over and over again for three, four, five years. Like all those crews, Rob Lo, all those guys knew each other in 1981 because they're all trying out for the same parts.

The young guns. Yeah. And I think this era was became kind of an era it feels like because I'm sure like River Phoenix was part of that group and all the guys in this movie. and just was kind of... Yeah, these guys, Josh Charles, Robert John Leonard, Ethan Hawke, I think Josh Hamilton, who's in a bunch of Noah Bomback movies.

And I'm always really like... That's our guy. Yeah. But he's friends with those guys. He became Grover. It all worked out. Yeah. And they have all done a bunch of theater together, and they all talk really fondly of each other.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Other than your homie, Gail Hanson, who was quietly almost 30 when this was made. And... A lot of Gail... I want to get to the categories because there's so much to dive into. but let's take a quick break. Let's take a break to talk about the Black Tucks.

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I have nine. There's like 15 scenes in this movie. Exactly. Because there's just some awesome scenes. First one I have is when Keating meets the kids. Yeah. And he brings them into the lobby. Yes.

And he does the car pay. Incredible. That scene is just great. Yeah. And they use Robin Williams, almost like the shark and jaw in this movie. They're just very careful with how they're over-exposed them. It comes in big.

And you even see it in the Laserdisc, the witted scenes where there's a couple of really important scenes with Keating that could have put in the movie. But he must have thought like a little less is more with Keating. So every time you saw him, there was real impact. Right. That scene's awesome. And I just, I told Amanda Dobbins was filming.

a test show for a big little live today and I went to her and I said just remember a dead poet society when he takes them in and he's like all these kids and these photos are now dead like we're all gonna be dead someday who cares just go out and have fun in Big Little Live

I didn't make that she thought it was funny okay you showed her some film from us and Talk the Thrones and said they're not that different from you are they same haircuts they're fertilizer now they're all gone

Yeah. That scene is incredible. It's just a sense right away that something totally strange but also special and transformative is happening. And the rational part of your brain as you're watching that says, okay, well, would I be able to opt in right away to what's happening? Is it natural that the kids are opting in so quickly to what's happening? Obviously, you have the requisite moments. But you're so enchanted by just the magnitude. They do a really good job setting up how boring the other teachers are too.

Absolutely. Latin, like, Agro-Cola. The Latin scene is great. My dude Bobby Leonard is really good in that scene, too. I call him Bobby Leonard. The joy in his face. Bobby Sean. When I re-watch that scene, I thought about also, like, that would have been, so 59.

It's like Keating's generation and Neil's father's generation is, like, is World War II. And those guys had lost a lot of friends probably and gone through a lot of trauma that the kids in 59 probably don't even understand. They're like the world we grew up in. Like America is a superpower. And we have everything we could ever want all these opportunities.

And Neil's dad says that all the time. He's like, you don't understand what I gave up and I never had the opportunities that you have. Weirdly like very pro-Neil's dad in this movie all of a sudden. Oh God. What a take. I think that. He's trying to get me to do it.

You're going to. You're not going to be able. That's just like my clay Travis take. The real hero dead poet is Neil's dad. Get some good ideas. One of the things that's so great about the scene is that both of the things that you guys have said already are true. Like you feel the specificity of each generation, but also you feel why the message of the film and the film itself is timeless. Like the themes that unite these people across time and these ideas that serve as a bridge across history and across generations.

And, you know, when he says, if you listen real close, you can hear them whisper their legacy to you. Go on lean in, listen, you hear it. It's like how you find yourself actually leaning in toward your TV as that's happening. It's just so mesmerizing. And then one of the best lines in the movies in that scene, sees the day boys make your lives extraordinary. Yeah. She's getting welled up. That's all anybody wants, you know?

Someone can tell you to make your life extraordinary. You know, obviously none of us have been in school for a long time. but there was that moment being in school that I miss where that first day of class where you just kind of never knew with the teacher. It was almost like being on a date. Yeah.

And the occasion of there would be this teacher. I remember my sophomore year in college, the best teacher at Holy Cross was this guy, Professor Vanichelli, who was a political science guy. And I got in his class because I was a major. And my friends were like, that guy's going to eat you alive.

Because at that point, I was like just barely doing enough to, I had a 2-5 freshman year. I was barely doing any homework. So you would have been academically disqualified from the basketball team. Yeah, yeah. Seriously. Holy Cross would have had to vacate their title. It somehow had you on the team.

So people were like, he's going to eat you up. You actually have to work in that class. I was like, I'll be fine. So I actually took it seriously. And the first day he was in his Italian guy with a big accent. And he was just such a character. And just from the get-go all of it. It was like a Mr. Katie moment.

And, you know, you just, you might meet two teachers like that ever. He was great. Got a B plus in his class. There you go, go. Yeah. He actually, he brought me in my midterms. Because I wrote, he gave me an A for the midterm. I wrote this paper.

And he brought me in. He was like, hey, I gave me basically a pep talk. He was like, saw your grades freshman year. What's wrong with you? Why aren't you doing better? Like, this paper was great. What's going on with you? Like, he was like genuinely, I was like, I don't know.

I'm in college. I'm just like going out. and staying up until 3 in the morning. He saw the potential in you. He did. He saw the potential. Just like Keating and Neil. Yeah.

Neil. Next rewatchable scene. I love ripping the understanding poetry part out of the book. Fucking kills me. How can you describe poetry like American bandstand? I like Byron.

I give him a 42, but I can't dance to it. I want you to rip out that page. Rip out the entire page. You hear me. Rip it out. Rip it out. And then the fucking Cameron the fank with the ruler,

like carefully. All of that is just really... The ruler part's great. Really well done. And just in general... Camera dark. Having a teacher just be like rip pages out of a book

when you're in boarding school had to be incredible. Some good quotes in there, Mal. Poetry, beauty, love. This is what we stay alive for. Incredible. The powerful play goes on. and you can contribute a verse.

What will your verse be? They just made that into an Apple commercial, right? That speech. What will your verse be is a really, really, really, really great quote. Yeah, that's on the best quote. And it's one of those things where you see that and you go like, yeah, especially when you get older, like, was my verse good enough? Like, look inside. That was my verse.

Craig, what will your verse be? I don't know, guys. I got to go. I got to go figure out of it. Craig's like, I have retired from by gas engineering. Craig, figure out your verse. Get your shit together, man. You're like 25.

One of the reasons that's such a good line, though, like the real flexes in the movie are the moments when you can't quite tell right away which line is from the screenplay and which line is poetry. And so that line plays off of a Whitman quote. Omio Life. And you may contribute a verse.

What will your verse be? Next rewatchable scene when he explains Shakespeare, which is really funny. Brando. Really good Rabin. That's what made me think of the James Dean stuff. Classic Ravillians. He's doing on the waterfront kind of stuff.

Yeah. doing different accents, and then he gets everyone to stand on the desk. Now, many of you've seen Shakespeare done very much like this. Oh, Titus, bring your friend hither. But if any of you have seen Mr. Marlon Brando, no, Shakespeare can be there from France, Romans, countrymen. Let me arrest. Strive to find your own voice, the longer you wait to begin, the harder would be to find it at all.

That's an incredible word. It's a fucking awesome line. and it ends with him leave it the kids leave it or whatever and he's like everybody's gonna have to do this on Monday even you Mr. Anderson

I know how much that scares you like what a fucking mind fuck bad coaching job by Mr. Keating I felt like well he broke through eventually accountability man what would Belichick do would Belichick just go up to Anderson be like there's 10 poets right out there

that I can get to replace you for cheaper Belichick would just waive time Anderson what were salary cap hit too What would Belichick Dead Poets Society with Belichick is an amazing amazing bit. If we were going to do a Netflix movie, it's Belichick retires from the Pats

and teaches like military history. He's in 1959 Vermont school. He's at the military academy that Neil's dad wanted to send him to. That's where Belichick is. I'm going to tell you guys about the monitor versus the Mermack in a Civil War, maritime military action.

No, there should be a time machine animated series where Belichick goes back in time to just coach high school at a 1959 boarding school and just picks apart Todd Anderson Todd

he Todd has that breakthrough with the hand on his thing and the sweaty tooth man and then he's like that was good Todd Yeah

do your job Todd's parents ask for the report he says I have 25 students I don't have time to watch just this one student at practice today

he leaves a book in the desk and it's just like some lame book what would he leave what would be Belichick's version of the Keating book.

What was that book called? Five centuries. It would just be... It would just be the driest history. The driest World War II history. Five centuries of verse. Yeah. Next one.

The other I kind of quote in that scene, though, the standing on the desk scene, is I stand up on my desk to remind myself that we must constantly look at things in a different way. The world looks very different from up here. I mean, one of the key ideas in the movie is perspective and pushing yourself

to try to find a new. perspective and allowing yourself to find a new perspective and understanding that you have to be the propulsive force there, the engineer of that aspect of your life because other people don't want that for you. People want you to see the world their way. And so if you want to see it differently, you have to make that choice yourself. You have to climb on the desk. It's great. Shaking people out of their comfort zone, making them look at it from a foot different than they're usually looking at it. It's a good scene. Not as good as the next scene, though. Todd freestyling the poem. Incredible stuff. Like a blanket that always leaves your feet

Forget them, forget them. Stay with the blanket. Tell me about that blanket. You push it, stretch. It'll never be enough. Kick out it, beat it. It'll never cover any of us. From the moment we enter crime to the moment we leave dying, it'll just cover your face as you wail and cry and scream. I just want to, we didn't really mention... Don't you forget this.

We didn't really mention Peter Weir, but... No, I was saving it, but what's doing now? This is a good time to do it. The circle camera scene is... fucking out of control. One of the most underrated directors of the last 30 or 40 years, picnic at Hanger Rock, Year of Living Dangerously, Witness.

I mean. Yeah. Witness where she serves up the hottest person of all time. Look out. I'm turning bright red. Just thinking about it. Harrison Ford Witness getting all on this. It's been replaced by Tyler C in the bathroom.

Truman Show, dead poets. And one of my personal favorites, White Squall. Yeah. Great. That was a great movie. And also Master and Commander. but the camera work in the scene and also all the actors in the making of documentaries talked about like the environment that he created and the kind of freedom he gave them and the feeling that they were collaborators with him.

And there's an electricity in that scene that like it just doesn't happen. It doesn't happen in most movies where you just are like, holy crap, this is like really happening. It's also like a how did they do that scene? Like how to pull off the act and that they pulled off with a camera, falling them around in a circle. It was just hard to do. And to know Williams is going to go crouch down and know when Hawk is going to be competent and start going with it.

And it's my favorite scene in the movie by far. By the way, he is... Williams is a great actor. Yeah. I don't think he made great choices. And I think when he was bad, there was very few stars who were worse. But when he was really good, he was as good as anybody, I think. Yeah.

This is up there with it's not your fault. And, you know, some of the best... The most iconic scenes. Love Rabbon. Yeah. The way he says, don't you forget this at the end? And every,

the whole, one of the points of the scene is that everybody is there. Everybody is bearing witness to what's playing out. But they're also completely alone in this one moment with each other. My favorite line is when, when he says the blanket line for the first time and they all start laughing. He's like, don't look at them.

Yeah. Forget them. Forget them. That's incredible. That's incredible. The way that the camera swirls also just makes you feel like you're completely embodying Todd in that moment because part of what's playing out for him is like the swirl of his not only emotions and his thoughts, but his actual identity. You know, you said he's this legacy kid.

Everybody knows who his brother is obviously under this immense amount of pressure from his parents who can't even remember that they got him the same birthday gift two years in a row, somebody who is scribbling poems in his notebook, but doesn't have the courage and the confidence to say it out loud. And like when you find somebody in your life who helps you unlock that, who believes in you, it's just a really, really, really special

and incredible thing. I think also, like, there's a world in which you watch this scene in 2019, and you're like, oh, my God,

the teacher has his hands on a student, he's bullying him, and the fact that you're not thinking about those things, actually, when you're watching it,

and you're just totally captivated by the poetry. It's an achievement. It really is. I think you're wrong. I think you have something inside of you that's worth a great deal.

Incredible. And Ethan Hawke, really good in this movie and especially in that scene and this could have gone wrong in a lot of different ways. This scene specifically, especially with the wrong actor,

even the little smile he has after he realizes he pulled it off. Pride. It's really good. There are movies where there are all these old tests for movies where there's anything, any kind of creativity

that's being documented if it's not, oh, well, this is the Johnny Cash movie so he just has to sing, walk the line. And that has its own challenges. But I often think about this and that thing you do together

where it's like when these guys have to be creative or when the O'Neaters have to be creative and when that thing you do it's really like a dangerous thing if that song sucks the movie doesn't work

if this poem is bad the movie kind of doesn't go anywhere I mean it's just good enough that you're like man maybe Todd is a fucking genius sweaty tooth man yeah I wonder I wonder how many versions

of the sweaty tooth man poem did they actually even work on or what did they even like what were some of the other takes of that, yeah, for sure. That scene is fucking awesome. I should also mention, it leads right into the soccer montage, which I also really loved.

That's wild. Montages are usually a disaster, especially in movies before, like, 1994. And that whole scene is just really good. It's really well filmed. It feels like New England. All of that. That whole stretch is great. Next we watch, but I got to put this in.

It's not a feel good scene. Todd finding out that Neil is dead. Oh, yeah. Pretty rough. Yeah. I don't know if it's a rewatchable. It's not the scene that I fast forward to. No, but I felt like I didn't want to put it in what stage the best.

I didn't know where to put it, but I just had to kind of mention that that scene's really great. And apparently they had one take for it because of the snow and that's something about the light. And they basically, Ethan Hawk had to just crush it in this one thing. And that was it. But I think one things I like about that scene is his friends are really, you just tell those guys are all friends. There's a friendship that comes out of that. That's not just like written in a script where these guys are going to do this.

Like you can really see how much they love him. It's just good. One of the things that popped up in the internet research is that we had them all live together. Like actually had the kids all bunk together to help forge that sense of, genuine community and friendship and it plays out. And also in something like the Todd's poem scene, the other thing that he did apparently was film chronologically, which obviously is extremely uncommon for a movie,

but part of what that then leads to is this really organic sense of evolution in their relationships with each other. So that when they get to that end point, you really feel like they have traveled that road in order in a linear fashion together, which they had. You stepped on what stage is the best with that. Sorry.

But that's all right. Yeah, I think that's really, smart that he did that because he really wanted them to all care about each other and have real relationships. And well, awful what Mallory just said, when Robert

Sean Leonard, when he dies as Neil, he had him like leave the set, like he didn't come back. Really? They had him he wanted those guys to feel like they lost somebody. So they didn't even say goodbye to him. He was just the next day he was gone and he wanted

that to affect how they handled like the next couple of scenes and stuff. which is really kind of smart and also like borderline evil. Dalton punches Cameron the fink. You just signed your expulsion papers, Nwanda. That all seems great. He's such a fink.

That is also the luggage room. He clocks him. He does. He gets everyone in. It's kind of makes, he drills that dude. I was kind of like, Cameron's not getting up from that.

Everything about that scene is great because everybody in college or in boarding school, there's always that one guy nobody trusts. And then he comes in the out. Hey, what's going on, guys? And just really good stuff. And then the last hour.

You guys burning incense in here? Do you have another rewatchable scene? Because the last one for me is the ending, which I wanted to talk about. I do. I had a couple more before that. The conformity walking scene. Yeah. Love that one.

Choosing my power not to. What does he say? Not to walk. Not to walk. That's the Robert Frost quote, two roads diverged in the wood. And I took the one less travel by and that made all the difference. But again, just this perfect encapsulation of one of the core ideas of the story that it's okay to be different. It's okay to just be who you are and to not feel like you have to be someone else.

And also, whether you want to do what other people are doing or whether you want to do your own thing, that the key is really understanding why you're making that choice, whatever the choice is. And just having that level of self-awareness and the ability to be introspective. And also, like a lot of the strong scenes in the movie, it's deeply insightful, but also has these like, moments of levity and joy that prevent it from being too heavy. Yeah, like when the kid does the cat sat on the mat poem and he's just like, I don't care if it's simple, but don't waste the opportunity. Right. You know?

Yeah, that's a great one. I also like the Todd's. It's what we say to bloggers every day. Exactly right. It's Kyrie Irving trade rumor. Don't waste the opportunity. Suck the marrow out of it. The death set you're going to go without you.

The death set scene is good. I think that's a really nice moment for their friendship, as you noted, one of the most important relationships and the story. And it's a really great insight into both of those characters. who taught is why he's struggling, and also what makes Neil such a compassionate person, you know, which is a important thing to find in your life. I also think the first actual Dead Poet Society meeting scene is great. When they, it's this spooky, you know, they have like their Hogwarts clothes on and their flashlights.

It's got like, that's the most 80s moment in the movie. It's a little too over the time for me. It's a sudden. It's very weird. It's weird, but there's something about the way they're tapping into like the forbidden element of what they're doing. It's really adopting into that. If you were a bunch of teenage boys and you cut

from school and you thought you were going to go read Byron and Shelley, the thing you would really do is look at Playboy and eat chocolate chip cookies. Totally. And smoke cigarettes. Yeah. Absolutely. So then the ending. Captain, my captain. Sit down, Mr. Anderson.

Do you hear me? Sit down. Sit down. That for me is the most rewatchable scene. Same. Me too. If I'm flipping channels and we're right around the point where the kids are about to think on Mr. Keating and I know that's coming up. I'm sticking around.

It's the walk-off homer of movie scenes. It's like, whatever you think about that movie, not a lot of movies have the guts to end on a moment like that. There's usually then like 10 minutes of like, and here's what happened next or a little bit of like, we're going home for the semester. Yeah, there's no CODA. It's just like, it's another one where. Bat flip.

You're fucking walking out of there and tears and applauding. It's another one where Ethan Hawk just kind of crushed. is it, but you don't realize it until the eighth time you see the movie. Everything about his body language. The way he screams Captain My Captain when he first is about to make the climb is really, really, really amazing. Also, a moment

that's become now completely divorced from its original text is now just like a cultural touchstone and reference point, which people probably don't even know. Like, I was asking some of the younger people in our office today if they'd seen this movie and they were like, no. And I was like, but you know, oh, Captain, my captain. They're like, oh, yeah. Right. And then

they went on to tell you that it was an elegy for Abraham Lincoln because they did know the original history behind it now. Is that not what happened? I remember this was right. This movie came out right during the VHS era where people were starting to buy them. And I was in college and I was dating this girl whose roommate was just watching it on video cassette one day. And I came in to get my girlfriend and there was like 20 minutes left. So I ended up watching the end.

And Ethan Hawk gets up and then the camera cuts to pits. Oh, yeah. And my girlfriend's roommate who had seen the movie already 20 times at this point She's like come on get up there pits Like she's talking to the characters Every time I see pits I think of that But he has that look at his face like I should go up to Don't get on the desk

Yeah It's not a unanimous decision There's a lot of really like And it's a nice framing where they're all kind of like They have their heads in their hands And shame But yeah And those people are now on Trump's cabinet

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Drive it, BMW, the ultimate driving machine, the all-new BMW 3 series. Check it out. What's age the best? God, I have a lot of things written down. And I'm sure you do too, Mal and Chris. The first one I have for me is great villains.

The old professor. That guy? Yeah. Just want to like punch him in the face. just hate that guy. And then he comes in. You can get your stuff now, Mr. Keating. Leave.

Leave, Mr. Keating. That guy's evil. Cameron the Fink. Cam is just an amazing villain. Oh, my God. What an asshole. You could save yourself. It's too late for Keating.

And then Neil's dad. You made a liar out of me, Neil. Neil's dad. Awesome villains. Neil's dad, evil. Just evil. Or? Or that's great Clay Travis and Clay.

You gotta maintain this all through the pod. I can't. You gotta. Three great villains. Part of the previous generation? The Neil and Neil's dad dynamic, I think, is really good. Unbelievable good. And one of those things that I can't really remember captured correctly in a movie like this where you have this kid who clearly doesn't want to do what his parents have paved out for him and really wants to tell them.

and really wants to tell them and is just so afraid and intimidated of his parents that he just can't get the words out of his mouth. I don't want to be this person. The one scene with the mom is heartbreaking where she's sitting there crying while, like kind of welling up while they're going back and forth. And his dad's like,

well, tell me, tell me what you want? And he just kind of can't do it. And I thought, I think that is one of the most realistic scenes, not just in this movie, but of any 80s movie of what it's like for a kid who doesn't want to talk to their parents. It's also important because that all obviously is on the heels of the Neil Keating scene

where Keating is trying to convince him to just somehow find the strength to tell his father what he wants to do with his life. And it's actually really important to not basically deify Keaton and make him this superhero who just has this wand that he weighs to fix all their problems. That's not what it is, right? Finding someone who believes in you and who you believe in is, is really important, but it's still ultimately has to be your choice to then

follow through on that thing that they taught you. And the fact that Neil in that moment just can't bring himself to do it. Like he defies him because he goes ahead and does the play anyway, but when he's faced with him, can't say it, is so devastating because we've seen

the people who we know care about him try to convince him that it's okay. Did you think Keating believed him when he said he talked to his dad? Oh, no, no way. He knows he going. No, I think that for a second he does and then he doesn't. You can see it on his face. Yeah.

Yeah. And the worry, the worry that's there. Yeah. It was like when... Probably also knows that like he's involved now. You know what I mean? Like that this kid now looks at him as like a surrogate father figure

and that like he's deeply involved in this kid's life. The look on Keating's face was the same look that I had when Mallory said Harry Potter was only going to be 50 episodes. I was like, it's not going to be 50? That's not what happened.

And I was like, and then I slowly didn't believe you as he thought. This is not what happened. Young Ethan Hawk. Oh, I said 60. young Ethan Hawk has aged the best because now we have this 30 year history with him yeah and at the end of this podcast

we're going to play Craig the seven minutes where Ethan Hawk talked about that poets Craig's already dreaming about what poetry he's going to write he's checked out what's your verse Craig no idea I just love that he's it's one of the best child actor but also all the seeds of what made him have a really good and awesome long career

all in this movie. I know you like the scene. Keating and the other professor one-upping each other with the poetry at the dinner. Oh, great stuff. Show me the heart unfettered by foolish dreams. But I'll show you a happy man.

But only in their dreams can men be truly free. It was always thus, and always thus will be. Tennyson? No, Keating. That was a borderline most rewatchable scene for me. Yeah. And they're just throwing lyrics at each other, And then he's like, no, actually, I've made that way.

That's a kidding original. This movie say, like, better than something like school ties, which I also like school ties. I like a lot, you know, like a lot of boring school movies. But school ties is great. Don't think that's not going to be on the rewatchable. There's nuances to each and every character relationship. So even when those two guys are at the dinner, the dining hall,

they're passing the hot food back and forth and kind of going back and forth about how to teach kids and what, you know, what they need to know. and I never pegged you for a cynic, and he's like, I'm a realist. And he kind of has that realization himself. That's like a level of like humanity that often isn't afforded to characters like that. They're just there to be like, don't teach those kids poetry. Teach them Trinitonometry.

And now exit stage left. Even the headmaster is obviously committed to a certain idea of how these kids need to be molded, like that they need to be put on a path. And then once they're out of their hands, like they can decide they want to be an actor. So you're like the headmaster too. Look, you're like just pro-villain in this. What is in the deleted scenes, there's that extra scene where Mr. Keating goes to see that guy for advice. Before, you know, when he knows he's getting railroaded and the guy's giving him whatever.

And I don't know how I thought about whether that should have been in the movie or not. Because on the one hand, I think it's more impactful that he just shows up at the end. But on the other hand, I kind of like that scene. I think it's really efficient for the movie that it is. And this movie is blissfully, like, what if it? Well, wait, I have some thoughts on some cuts in a second. Okay. I do too, actually.

One of the what's age is the best for me is identifying yourself through the kids, like which kid were you? So I felt like I've had maybe earlier points in my life where I was kind of more on the Todd side. But then, like, in college, was more on the Rwanda side. Nwanda. Nwanda. Rwanda is a country. I'm sorry.

Yes. Nwanda. Bill That's a fucking all-time moment, man. Rwanda, Diwanda. That's fair. Incredible stuff, SG. Thank you.

Yeah, Mal and I were just joking about this. I was like, I wanted, I want to think that I was like... You said you're Charlie, you're Dalton. I said I'd like to think that I was... Well, no, I was like, I think I'm kind of like Dalton, but I'm probably more like Meeks or something. Meeks. Get up there, meeks. I'll try anything once, except sex.

I like Minks. What about you now? What about you about? Pits? God, I hope not. Pits? Man, I don't know. Who am I?

You guys tell me. I don't think you could pick for yourself. It's tough to cross-gender with this. That's not that hard. Hmm. You've got a Neal vibe. First, like, two months at Grantland, a lot of Todd. And then all of a sudden, Rwanda started coming out.

That was partially my fault because I never heard her back. Yeah, Chris is still not responded to my Grantland Year 1 emails. I don't paint the lightning bolt on my chest. I paint it in the middle of my forehead, as you know. Yeah. For what stage is the best. It's a Harry Potter thing, Chris. Todd getting the same birthday gift two years in a row.

Exercising my right not to walk. I like that line. Phone call from God. What is this? What is the best? I'm like, phone call from God. If it had been collect, that would have been daring. That's a good line.

I really like the scenes at Neal's play. I actually think that went as well as that's going to go. Usually like when they have. have, when it's like a high school play, that's usually like the worst part of any movie, they never know what to do. And that one, you come out of it thinking like, oh, wow, that guy's a really good actor.

And then they shove him out for the curtain call, which I like. Great shot, like when they were walking out for that, yeah. Yeah, like you wonder as his father is watching him, oh my God, is he going to just have this awakening, this epiphany where he realizes that this is actually his son's purpose because he's so clearly feels fulfilled and is like alighted by what he's doing.

then it's just such a gut punch when that's not what happens. Do you have any other, I have one more, what's age the best, but do you have any other ones? A lot of the things that we already talked about, you know, boarding schools as a setting. New England boarding schools. Filmed in Delaware, of course. You know, there's an Ohio boarding school that's very hard to get into. I think it's called Thatcher. Yeah.

No movies ever set at the Ohio boarding school. We could do that for the Netflix show. So it's Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and everything to go to Ohio. We can do that, as Gers said, for ours. Poetry. the teacher who changes your life, the themes at the heart of the story. I like, especially now,

in our very data-driven, you know, saber-metrically inclined world, the moment when they rip out the introduction and basically it's like throw away the math and just follow your heart for a second, like in looking at what's in your soul. I test, exactly. I like that.

That felt really good to return to a moment like that. I think that generally my thing that's age is the best is a camaraderie between the kids and even like the little things like on the first day when they're moving in and the one guy is like who comes in and is just like

kind of makes fun of Todd and then Todd showed up right behind him and he's like don't worry he was born with his foot in his mouth and then like I think one of them starts smoking immediately like as soon as the door closes like all the stuff

of the cigarettes and the radio and all that chasing each other around the beds yeah I just thought it was like really really well pitched as like how guys of that age interact with each other the only other what's age the best I had was the moment

the curtain call him leaving the play them Keating realizing that his dad wasn't in on it Charlie Dalton going Yeah well come on Mr. Perry That whole thing Going to the house

Him being unable to talk to the parents And then the suicide Like that is just so well executed Yeah Yeah I remember seeing the movie in the theater And not It never occurring to me that he was going to kill himself I thought he was going to kill his dad

Oh, interesting. Which, I don't know what that says about me, that that was where my mind went. But when he was, like, getting the gun, I was like, oh, my God, he's going to kill his father. The kind of movies that were out in the 80s, you know, but he's such a gentle soul. He never would have hurt his dad, you know? No matter how much that obviously would hurt his parents anyway, but, like, he, I don't think he was able to do that. He doesn't want to inflict pain on other people. He just wants to find a way to escape the pain himself.

But it's also, like, you spend a lot of the movie worrying about the other kids. I mean, obviously, like, a lot of the back half of it is Neil's vulnerability. and him trying to grapple with the fact that what he wants is not the same as what his family wants for him. But you literally have a moment earlier in the film where Knox says, I'm going to kill myself. And Todd, for wide swaths of the film, is the one that you're really worried about.

You know, he's so uncomfortable in his own skin. He feels like he's this intruder in this world where he doesn't belong. And so that ultimately, and who is Neil, he's the one who's comfortable there. He's the one everybody gravitates toward. And so that reversal, flipping the expectation that you initially have

for those two characters is shocking. So apparently people think they foreshadowed it during the first scene when he shows them the photos and is talking about all these kids are going to be dead someday. He does that whole speech, but the camera goes in on

Neil on that. Everything about that last scene is so really well done and so well directed. The way he puts the slippers on or takes the slippers off, the dad's a virtual. to bed.

Like he's just like, oh, this guy's a freaking OCD psycho. And then when he goes, he doesn't know what's going on. He sees the smoke coming from him. The literal smoking gun. Yeah. Really, really well done. What's age the worst? Oh, so, yeah, we agree in the camarader with the kids.

I think that's what's the worst. Converse have also aged the best, by the way. A lot of great converse moments in this movie. Charlie Dalton's paddle punishing? That one's a hard one to explain in 2019. High on the list. Should we try to sit the ringer? Yeah.

That's the category, man. Should we paddle punish at the ringer or no? Certainly not. No. Okay. Certainly not. No. No, we should not.

Just saying, Adrian Peterson put up a lot of good numbers. You've already defended Neal's dad and the headmaster. Now you're going to defend spanking. Good. All right. So that has an age well. No. Terrible.

No. No. No. No. Trees mom. Just bad job. Come on, mom. Brutal.

Very 1950s, mom, but come on. Just chain smoking. Everybody was chained. Unable to intervene. She would just have a jewel now. I have another one's age the worst. This is a weird one, but we've seen this movie so many times that just the feeling has aged the worst of when Neil kills himself in the theater. That was like unbelievable.

What a gut punch to see that in a crowded theater and that whole scene. and people were just like really, really shaking. I kind of can't. I don't even know. I kind of still can't believe it's in the movie and that that happens. I mean, the amount of control of studios have over these movies. Maybe this is, it harkens back to a day when studios were a little bit more gutsy when it came to creative choices or whatever.

But it's really wild to see this in like a movie that made $250 million has that ending. Well, think about in 2019 how that would have been treated like online with the culture we have now. People would have been really upset, I think. There would have been a whole faction that would have been like, this is really bad. You can't have this happen in a movie. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

The what's age is the worst? I didn't even realize that age the worst, but that they cut that scene out of them practicing the lines for the play. I really like that. Then, finally, for me, every single scene of Knox and Chet's girlfriend just got to say. Number one on the list here. You are weirdly doing this podcast with two of Josh Charles' favorite fans.

I mean, the biggest fans. I love Josh Charles too. I don't blame him. It's not his friend. fault. Orile diehard. Yeah. It's not his fault.

Love Josh Charles. You honestly could have cut out... He's like all of the good wave. You could have cut out all of them. Yeah. Every single scene just been like, I like a girl and then he goes to play with that. It feels like a B plot on a TV show. It's so bad.

It's not as a girlfriend that he's trying to get. And is, yeah, petting her and kissing her while she's passed out at a party and then stalking her at her school after she told him to leave her alone. Yes. There's some like legit stalking, which is... Very tough. But the thing is like, especially when you see the deleted scenes, it's like, oh, man. Like, we had more scenes with these kids that could have established a relationship with these guys.

And they went this way with fucking Knox and Chitt's girlfriend. All these guys are making these inroads into a real life, right? Like, they're making choices. Neil's becoming an actor. Todd's learning how to express himself through poetry. And Knox is supposed to find himself through love. And he's trying to articulate like a life to this girl that's different. than the guy with the varsity jacket,

Chet, Chet Danbury, is that who it is? And I get that. It's just that, like, it just feels like every time, it's a bad sign

when you go to a plot line in a movie and you're like, God damn it. You know, and that happens sometimes, but like, it's no fault of Josh Charles is that every time you cut to Knox,

you're like, I would just rather be with Neil or Todd. It would be interesting to say an edit of this where he's just not in it. Oh, yeah. Or the kids hanging out at the, freaking dinner and passing bread

and making fun of each other. Give me more of the kid with the just debilitating allergies and asthma. Oh, the vapor kid? What's his story? Yeah. What's Pitts' backstory? Honestly, what do you guys think of this? Could they have just made Knox and Turley

the same character? Could they have just like collapsed that character? I think Knox was a bigger part of the movie because Lara Flynn Boyle plays Chet's sister and got cut out of the movie completely. So I actually think there were like more chat scenes, which is nuts. So they were trying to go with some... Chat.

I don't know. I'll kill you. About the Danberries left the cutting fruit. So we all agree. That's aged your worst. Let's take a quick break. Let's take one more break to talk about Heinz mayonnaise.

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I like these names. Check it out. The unforgetably creamy Heinz mayonnaise. I can't believe no one mentioned the snack situation in the cave for what age the worst. You're in charge of bringing snacks to the gathering, and you're bringing a half-eaten roll. It's 1959 in a boarding school. No, shade and big raisin, but you're bringing raisins?

What do you think they have to eat there? It's a boarding school in 1959 in New England. It's not like they have bodegas they can stop by. There's not a traitor Joe's. They managed to get 50 milkbone treats for the dog before they snuck out. That's true. That's true. Just saying.

Well, that is also age the worst. Casting what ifs. The part of John Keating was once intended for Dustin Hoffman. Yeah, man. This is a crazy sliding. It was also going to be his directorial debut. That part's wild. With Drew from the film.

Thank God. Very different tone of this movie. If Dustin Hoffman is John Keating, I think. It's just like, oh my God, I'm so inspired by Dustin Hoffman. It might still be good. It's just weird. It's darker. Yeah.

It's a darker movie. Mel Gibson originally slated to play John Keating. Unbelievable. When Jeff Kanoe took the director's chair, he'd debate too much money and they went another direction. Jeff Kanoe director of Revenge of the Nerds. Oh, wow. Mel Gibson is Keating.

1988, Mel Gibson. So right post-lethal weapon two. We don't know he's a crazy anti-Semite yet. I think it wouldn't have been bad. Not as good as Robin Williams. Would he have had his lethal weapon hair? Maybe. That would have been cool.

No, he probably would have gotten a nice short one. Liam Nissen landed the leading role then? That's incredible. But then he lost it when Robin Williams and Peter Ware came aboard. Liam Mason? Taken? Dead Poets Society. Somebody crossed with toy soldiers?

Todd gets taken by somebody? Instead of, no. It's like, instead of taking the kid, they take, like, his original edition of leaves of grass. No, if they take Todd and this, like, shy retiring English professor is like, I have a very special special social skills. I've been running for the intelligence committee. No. Whatever. Very special poetry skills.

This one I'm just going to read verbatim because it's so fucking weird and so 30 years ago. Peter Weir planned to make green card in 1989. But Gerard Depard Dupard Dupard D'Adu proved to be unavailable for a full year. Was he making like three musketeers or something?

Or 1492, Columbus's journey? I don't know what he was doing. Disney's Jeffrey Katzenberg suggested to wear that he should make another film in the intervening year and handed him the script to dead poets. So Gerard DeBard Depard Dupard Dupardue that he was such a huge star at the time. They had to wait a year to film Green Card with him.

Remember when they did dueling Columbus movies? Yeah, and both were bad, right? What a time. So there, Flam Boyle said she was edited out of the film and told not to attend the premiere. She told that story on David Letterman once. Last but not least, River Phoenix wanted to play Neil. The part went to Robert Sean Leonard.

Wow. I got one more. Sam Rockwell apparently auditioned for Charlie. Really? According to the half-ass internet research The Deanne Waiter's Award Our nominees are Charlie Dalton Yeah

And Neil's dad What about Cameron? Cameron the Fink? Okay Cameron gets quite a role It's like a lot of like Lou Williams action going on For Cameron at the end of this movie

I also have a Norman Lloyd Headmaster Nolan I mean He's in it Is he in it too much so? It's maybe one scene too many But he's not, I don't think he's actually in it much more than Neil's dad. Leave, Mr. Keating.

Leave. He was a big guy back when I was growing up. He was like paper chase and saying elsewhere. Threatening them at the, basically at the funeral. I mean, that is just the whole like inquisition with Todd and his family. It's just, the article inquiry and the God's the God phone call scene. That's good. Good Dalton.

So who's your pick? I think it's got to be Kurt Wood Smith, Neil's dad. Mr. Perry. He's the Dion Waders winner? He's only in like four scenes. I go with that. I'm sticking up for Cameron. I think Cameron fits the letter of the award better

because he just comes in off the bench at the very end and does like that speech and then gets punched in the face, which is very Dion Waders. And then he reads Pritchard. Yeah. Is it time yet? Give it to us.

Neal! Oh, my son! No! So I just want to say, we're not trying to be insensitive but that is that is a choice to Kurtwood Smith makes and if I could just tie this into

the other rewatchables categories to skip ahead in the Danny Trejo Steve Bouchemy Award it would have to be Danny Trejo and he would go Neil So we have two Neal's

New Rewatchable Greymoteau I have to do it bro because supercutter Neil and Neil and Neil oh Neil! It's just great acting I've seen the movie so many times that I've now past being affected

by it. I can just concentrate on the performance. Half-ass internet research. A scene in the original script showed Keating dying in a hospital removed by Peter Ware. Keating was supposed to die of leukemia because that's apparently

what happened to the teacher. And it was supposed to be hanging over the entire movie. That part of the reason why he was... Why he has this Carpe Dia mantra. Right. And maybe even... Do we ever find it much about

what the deal is? Was he's got a girl in London? That's one of the unanswerable questions. What's up with the woman? I'll have that for later. So would you have rather had Cating's leukemia subplot or Knox chasing down the blonde? The way it is, it's perfect.

That's perfect. We talked about how he had all the people room together. The shooting in chronological order, I thought was a really interesting choice that I don't know if they do anymore, but I liked how it played out for them. Robin Williams considered this one of the favorite films that he ever did, and he said,

Peter Ware was the best director he ever worked with. Mr. Perry wants Neil to be a doctor. Neil became a doctor on house, Robert Sean Leonard. Oh, man. Neil! Mr. Perry's revenge. Mr. Perry, so yet again,

Neil Perry's dad, maybe he had some good ideas. He was right. His son ends up having a good career in house with Omar Epps. Was that also one of the deleted scenes? Not Neil. With Omar Epps?

Who is on that show? I want you to be in a show where they mention Lupus every three episodes. One day you're going to be. be on a television show with the guy from a movie called Juice. His name is Omar Epps. Tupac will be in that movie. It's always Lupus, Neil.

I got a couple half-ass ones. Okay. I had a couple more, but go. No, you jump in. You're the captain. Oh, captain, my captain. You can finish the category. And I'll sweep up.

There's no right way to walk. Josh Charles and James Waterston, do you know who that is? Played Pitts. We're in the Good Wife together. That's right. 2010. You know this? I do.

I watched The Good Wants. Was it a thing at the time when it was on? I don't remember thinking it was a thing, but it was, I did. This also looks really different. Yeah. So does Cameron. Yeah. Cameron was supposed to stand on the desk, but the actor who played him, Dylan Cussman,

vetoed the idea. He didn't think it was in character and was surprised when director Peter Ware agreed. You can't do that after that speech. He could have done a different version of that speech where he was like, guys, like, I broke, I was under too much pressure, I gave him up, and they already know everything. But he was like Neil's dead. He was like, Hale Hydra. He was like, let's burn this guy to the ground.

So you can't have him then be like, oh, captain, my captain. Yeah, he would have had to be felled by a lightning strike if he had decided to climb up there. He didn't belong on that desk. Also, it would be really funny if they're doing, oh, Captain, my Captain. And he gets up on the desk. And Todd's like, get the fuck down. Or shoved him off. Shubs him up.

No, it's got to then turn into the SNL sketch, the farewell Mr. Bunting. Oh, that was great. He gets his head cut off. That was funny man. Last one, Chet Danbury, played by Colin Irving, John Irving's son. Did not know that? Wow.

Really? Who is best friends with my friend, Daniel Kallison. I've spent many birthday party with him. Really? And he's just an awesome guy. Super handsome. Wow. Yeah.

He had this whole, like, weird couple years of acting thing because of his dad and then just became a normal person. Oh, my goodness. So he's Chet in this movie, throwing punches. I'll kill you. What else do you have? Robin Williams and Ethan Hawke did. Ethan Hawke thought Robin Williams hated him on the set.

Because Ethan Hawke was kind of doing a little bit more of... Take me seriously as an actor. Yeah, like a little bit more method, a little bit more like I have to be in a certain place and this is who this guy is and this is how I like to work. And Todd is not open in the most of the movie. He has not opened up yet. And he was like, Williams would be out there like busting balls and like a lot of that stuff about like, I know this is, you know, you don't want.

to talk Todd and all that stuff is improvised. And a lot of that was like, Williams trying to make Hawk laugh and Hawk being like, I'm taking this really seriously. This isn't like your stand-up. And he was like, I don't think Williams liked me that much because of that. So that was really interesting.

The only other thing I got is that Josh Charles did that bird, the riding down the hill thing in one take. Josh Charles. The funniest thing about this is you guys apologizing to Josh Charles like he had any say in his poorly winning character. Josh Charles does a good job in movie. He does. He's super likable. And he's like, I really like him as a, as an actor.

So I don't want to make it sound like Josh Charles somehow as like a bad part of this. I need someone else out there who's as invested in Dylan Bundy's fastball velocity as I am, you know? We should put this in what's age the best. After this movie, I rooted for all the kids in this movie and whatever they did. Except for Cameron. Ethan Hawke for years. Yeah, not Cameron. But anything Josh Charles was in, what was it, threesome? I saw in the theater. I was supporting the Josh Charles franchise. Voted with your dollars. Bob Sean Leonard, I was in. Whatever he was doing, I was rooting for him. Did you watch House?

I wasn't, I didn't support him that much. It's not like House is struggling indie movie. That would have meant supporting Mr. Perry. I was super excited that he was in there. Unsurprisingly, I love House. You ride for, you ride for Neil's dad, no matter what. And then Neil's dad being in that 70s show, I could never get past that. They also, they filmed in Delaware.

Yep. after originally planning to film in Georgia because apparently fake snow was too expensive, too difficult. And then we did a bunch of these other ones already. But the studio wanted to make it a musical. Wanted to make the movie a musical. Oh, do the sets thing.

Sultans of Strut would have been the name of the musical. The sets, they burn them down. They did a day of shooting and Williams didn't show up because his deal wasn't done yet. So the guy who was the Revenge of the Nerds director, I think, was going to start the movie. And Williams wasn't into it. and he hadn't signed his deal yet.

And he made a lot of movies for Disney over the years. But he just didn't show up. And they were like, I guess this movie's not happening. So they burn the sets down. And there's like footage of them burning the Dead Poets Society sets down outside of Atlanta. Jesus. Yeah. Apex Mountain?

This is... Can we have a quick Williams discussion within Apex? Apex Mountain. I'd been saving it for right here. Okay. Hmm. I wrote Apex Mountain. The first person I wrote was Robin Williams with three,

question marks. Interesting. You could make the case. Now, I will make the case for Morgan Mindy was a massive hit and he was a huge, huge star in the late 70s. Good Morning Vietnam was a huge

hit. I actually think this was his Apex Mountain because it's coming off Good Morning, Vietnam. He's awesome in this movie. And I don't think any other actor could have been both of those parts.

And I left this movie thinking, we did it, Robin Williams. You did great. You're at the peak of your powers. So you feel like, this over technically like Fisher King or Hook where he is arguably like a bigger star or Aladdin

or Doubtfire? But I think this movie paves the way for him being able to do whatever movie he wants and get paid. Yeah. This movie plus Vietnam and now he's like whatever he wanted to do he can do after that.

Right. So he does good morning Vietnam. Comic relief was a huge deal in the mid-80s. It's like came in Whippy and Billy Crystal. Yeah. But I feel like this did for him what city slickers did for Billy Crystal where just put him on another level. Yeah, he did Good Morning, Vietnam, in 87.

He does this in 89, Awakening's in 90. Right. And I don't think he gets Awakenings without those other two movies because that was a big movie in 1890. It was a De Niro movie. And then in 91 he did, it's really interesting, 91 because he does Dead Again, which is a pretty fun, Kenneth Branagh, Black and White, Hitchcock kind of movie. Fisher King, which I think there's definitely people who love that.

And Hook, which was a very complicated movie, but... It's bad. Yeah. And then 92, it does a lot of. which is like one of the biggest movies of that decade. What kind of weight do you give the Oscar though for Goodwill Hunting? I feel like that was the culmination of the decade. Yeah, that was a career challenge.

Oh, I think he deserved it for that movie. He deserved it. But yeah. I don't think that was, he wasn't at the peak of his powers at that point because he'd made a lot of bad movies by that point. Yeah. He's been 90s. He's really rough. He just does What Dreams May Come, Patch Adams, Bicentennial Man, like one hour photo.

What Dreams may Come is one of the five worst movies I've ever seen in my whole life. Do you like, what do you think is worse, Dr. Moreau or what dreams make a movie? No, Dr. Moro is funny, though. It's like a comedy. You got to look at it. You got to look at it correctly. Flubber right before Goodwill Hunting. Would you go Alexandria Powers, Apex Mountain?

Alexandria Powers at Chrissy. That was Chris. Chris. I have a couple of lines. Had to look at name up. I had to look at name up. I have a couple of unanswered questions. About Chris?

Yeah. Well, can you save them? Sure. That's why I'm waiting. You become a little parliamentary. parliamentary and about rewatchables categories. Why don't be in the right category?

Point of order. I would say Pitts, yes. Apex Mountain for pits, for sure. Yeah. Not for Hawks. Certainly for Dalton. Charlie Dalton. So Dalton, we should talk about that.

Leaving in this movie, I would have thought he was going to be a big star. And he really stopped acting pretty much immediately after. Now, I think he's a creative executive in LA or something. But I don't know whether he didn't want it or just...

Something happened. But in this movie, he's as good as Ethan Hawking, Robert Schenner. I have Robert Schenlander is really good. But I feel like he's on par with those guys. Am I crazy? He's definitely really charmed. He has such a different energy. But yeah, he's, yeah, he's magnetic.

Yeah. You wouldn't have, you wouldn't have expected him to have a career with a lot of parts coming out of this movie. He's also one of the, that's one of the performances that you would love to just, like, transport into this, the version of this movie. movie in 2019 where like instead of always smuggling in cigarettes he's vaping you know and like what what is he had what's he pulling up on his iPhone right like in the hallway between classes like you know what is he replacing the severalfolds with or Joe Rogan he's always got

porn hub booted up in class you know or not other than that I don't know for the other what about what about your boy what about your boy Bobby Sean oh that's a tough one He's had a good, solid career. I think this probably was his apex. Just because it was like, for me, it was him and River Phoenix are neck and neck after this movie now. Like, who's going to be the best actor of the next generation? And you don't think about him the same way after that. I think he was more of a theater guy, right?

He was, yeah. Yeah, he's one of those guys. He does a lot of theater with Hawk or did a lot of theater with Hawk. I think he and they did some, like, Kenneth Lanigan stuff, I think, over the years. So, yeah. He found himself playing puck, you know? once you get that midsummer night's dream experience. This was the perfect part for him.

It really hit a lot of different things. River Phoenix in this part would have been strange. He's got a little bit more of like an edge. Yeah. The Joey Pants Award for Over Actor. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Joy Pants Award for that guy. Norman Lloyd, he's one of those guys.

Paper Chase. Also, shout out to Maloney. Laura Walters, who, you know, from Magnolia, she shows up in the cave. Oh, wow. Do you think that that guy can work in reverse? So, like, it wouldn't have been people you said that guy about at the time, because it was your introduction to them for a lot of the kids. But now, when you return to it or when somebody...

Ablated that guy? Like, yeah, like, if you show this movie to your kids and they look at Cameron, are they going to be like, that guy, I saw him in the mule, you know? Is Cameron in the mule? I think so. He'll? I didn't see the mule. Actually, Cameron belatedly became that guy from this movie, you think. Yeah, okay. He's Cameron.

It's like, so it's in reverse. It's actually kind of a career ender in a lot of ways, because you see him in anything. You just don't trust it. Yeah, it's like Kevin McAllister's brother in homeowner. You're always buzzed. No way to go. Yeah, he's the sheriff in the meal. Saw Rubinick, they knew, I left blank for the overacting award for this, unless you

want to go with it. I think it's got to go. Neil? Neal. Oh, Neil! Oh, my God. Oh, my son! He's not. My poor son. He's all right.

He's all right. Although, although there's a couple of also Neil's mom here. Dalton really, Interesting. Dalton playing the sax. Don't dials it up a little bit.

Neil's mom in the, in the, oh, he's okay? He's okay, he's okay, he's okay. Yeah. And the tears in the scene before that. You're really hard on 1950s housewives. Come for your child.

I didn't like, stand up for your child. Okay. Also, Chet. If anybody, treated Halo like that, Mallory wouldn't have been smoking cigarettes on the side. If we didn't let the cat act? Is that what we're saying?

It's whatever his passion is. That's the point. Isn't his passion eating salmon? Isn't that about the extent of it? Eating salmon. Let Halo eat a salmon. We can see his multitudes, Chris. I'm sure.

Picking Nets. What was Keating's relationship with his other classes? Did he have other classes? Fucking unbelievable question. He just had one class? Yeah, was there like a bunch of guys who were like, how come we don't get that version of Keating? Yeah, he's just mailing in the other ones.

I got the impression it's a very small school. Yeah. Right? So. One class a day for Keating? Maybe he teaches younger kids and he doesn't... Only tells the one class about that Poet Society. He's like, fuck the other class.

I don't like the freshman don't get that. Right. That's like a, that's your AP lit level. Yeah. Because like it's like the freshman, you just got to teach him the basics, like how to spell. But like the guys, well, hopefully they should know the spell by then. But, you know, The guys who were a little bit older, you're like, you're about to go off from the world.

I got some special sauce for you, some shake shack sauce. It's a great job if you get to work at a boarding school and teach one class. I can understand why he left his wife in London for that unbelievable career opportunity. The economy was bumping right then, you know? Oh, God. Just maybe just never clicked with the other classes. He's doing his, that would have been a fun alternate movie or he's doing his schick with the other classes. Maybe he was the soccer coach too.

That's another knit. Is like, is he an act? Is he the soccer coach? Are they taking gym class? Is he just continuing the literary lessons during PE? Right. Or is he part of his strategy? Of Welton.

So I had that in unanswerable questions, but we could do that now. Was he the soccer coach? How did they do? Was there a title game? Yeah. Who was the best player? That one soccer said had so many questions. Can you imagine John Keating's half-time speech?

Who do you think was the attack mid? the attacking midfielder? Yeah, on the team. Well, you want pits up front. Pitts you think was the nine? You lob it up front of Pitts. He's a defender. No, in the 50s, it was all long ago.

I would have Pitts as a sweeper. Ariel to Pitts, he knocks it down, and then Cameron slides in there. Cameron's like a slide tackling left back. Yeah, no, Cameron's like Andy Robertson. So what do you think his halftime speech would have been? Todd's the ballboy. What if it was super Belichick? Do your job.

No, it's like, clear eyes, full hearts, we are food for worms, lads. The kid, the cat, what was the three-word poem the guy did? The cat on the mat or something, yeah. I think that guy was pretty awesome midfielder. Yeah, you know, he was pretty much like, he was frigging, like, Johnny Unitas. Workhorse, that guy. And I think, I think, no wonder was probably good, too. Maybe not as talented as the results, but so much confidence.

Everyone would take them serious. Do you think he doesn't take praise? No. Neal's. I can see, maybe Pitts is a keeper. Yeah. David Dehia. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Make him throw it up the whole net. They should add Neil play and he could have scored a goal and his dad could have gone. Neil! My son! My son! She scored. More positive. I can't believe they didn't do that.

Mr. Kating's wife was in London. Why? Is it his wife or his girlfriend? Unclear. That's one of my unanswerable questions. Here's my vision for this, right? Is this doesn't quite work out. But if you take that he's supposed to be sick, maybe,

like they, he stays in London after the war, right? So he's supposed to be like 40, right? In the movie? It's my answer questions. Okay, so if he's 40, World War II is... I think Mr. Keating's like 34. Well, wait, did they show the date on his annual, on his yearbook? No.

Because they show the yearbook. Oh, yeah, I don't know. So we might be able to check and do the math, actually. I thought he was mid-30s. figure he's a World War II veteran, stayed in London, met a girl, gets sick, comes back to the States to start his life. Maybe they never get married. The girl ditches him? He's dying of cancer and the girl's like, I don't even know. You know what I mean? He's like, it's complicated. How about this? There was no girl. Oh, you think he's like catfishing them? Yeah, maybe, maybe making it up.

He's actually the January. I don't know. It's like, my girlfriend's in the Niagara Falls area. I assume that's where he's going now, you know. London? Got to go see about a girl. At the end of all of it. He's going to take the job managing Manchester United. This is a pretty big nip-pick. There are some big ones. It bothers me. Is this nitpick or out?

Wait, do we do it? Was that just unanswerable? We're still in nip-its. We skipped ahead for a couple of them. We're back on nip-x. Goes to get his personal is right there in the class. Yeah, that's tough. Couldn't have gotten that at like seven at night when nobody was around?

It's like, yeah, so when am I going to get my stuff? I know when. during the only class I teach, which starts at 9 o'clock, 9.05 might be a good time to grab like that book I left behind. Come on. I have another one from that exact scene.

He also goes into another class, and they're like, oh, hey, yeah, see you. Good luck, man. He didn't know that the headmaster used to teach English. Because he went to Welton. That's so weird. How would he not know that?

Their relationship is odd, because I couldn't tell in that conversation they have with her he's saying, I taught English it was before your time, whether he's referring to the time right now or when he was a student there. It would be like if you said you didn't know that Bill used to write about basketball. That would be pretty funny. But like if I got pushed out of ESPN, hypothetically, if I had just shown up right during the big meeting on Thursday at 2. Like, hey guys, sorry, I'm just going to get my stuff.

204. You think it was deliberate? I think it was deliberate. I think he was mad that those guys sold them out and he was like, you know, I'm going to get my fucking book. Interesting. Right there in this class. And fuck these guys.

I don't know. Didn't make a lot sense to me. What do you have for nitpicks? Okay. Uh-oh. Mrs. Perry doesn't hear a gunshot going off in her own home? He's like, what was that sound? What sound?

In the 1950s, a gun went off in your home. People's bloodstream was 62% gin. And she's probably pickled. She's plowed. Yeah. She didn't know it happened until 12 hours. And what's his solution to the whole thing is like everybody should just go to bed. Which tells you about like what was going on in 1959.

There wasn't a lot of like, I'm going to check Twitter. See what's going on. Maybe catch up on younger. It's just like just go to bed. So she's probably like six cocktails in the bag by that point. I feel like you hear a gun go off. A hundred cigarettes. Just my take.

Also, this is a fair point about now. I agree. I don't want to be more. There is not nearly enough blood in the study. Jesus. There is not. And the way that Mr. Perry realizes something happens is that he smells something and then he sees the smoke. You see a little like spiral of smoke, but you don't see blood all over the wall.

I paused and examined closely. And there is blood to the right of the drapery on the wood paneling, but not nearly enough. That's how you get the movie released. You can't have his friggin' head blown off. in this movie and then be like, and now we do, oh, captain, my captain. Yeah.

Disagree. Could have been a little more, bud. You guys have been broken by Game of Thrones. Using it like arterial spray is the only thing that matters. Less is more people. Could have been like Marvin and Pulp Fiction, like that kind of. I also just think the whole strategy for the initial escape,

the first time they go to the cave, is a slightly confounding. You know, they're worried about being found out, which is why they give the dog treats to the dog, to quiet the dogs. this bark doesn't give them away. But what about the crunching?

What about the dog treat residue that's going to be everywhere? They're not worried about that? I think that there's... What about bed checks? A lot of dog treats. How many... Way too many dog treats. You know how much...

20 dog treats? Yes. Like, the dog's throwing up and the stomach might turn. Dangerous. Dogs in the 50s were major strongest dogs. The dogs were six gins deep. You guys are really disrespecting the 50s. Dogs had tougher stomachs.

They ate like old steak and drank milk all day. That's what dogs weren't getting like organic buckwheat treats. Halo only eats organic. I was offended. Yeah. What else for an epic? A couple more quick ones. When Knox goes to Chris's school.

Yeah. And asks just a random person in a random hallway at a crowded school where she is. And the girl's like, She's in room 111. It could happen. I went to a school. I went to a pretty small school. I would have known where most people were.

Yeah, that's pretty good. Okay, she was also not actually in that room, though. She was at her locker. But be that as it may. The investigation after Neil's suicide is conducted entirely by the school. Where are the authorities? So you want Law & Order SVU to check in here after Neil guys. You want you want Maloney in here swabbing down the scene.

I don't know. I'm just asking the question. Man. It's a category in the podcast. And I'm taking it seriously. If we're doing unanswerable questions, I do have a question. It's just, how much longer do Knox and Chrissy date? How long do Knox and Chris go? Josh Charles himself told

Entertainment Weekly, I don't think that relationship had legs. I think it was probably one date. And probably there's a premature ejaculation scene. Chet had way more staying power. Che was a real man. What befelled Chet? That's one of the

unanswerable questions. what happens to that guy? Also, like, does he follow through on his threat to try to murder Knox if Knox makes a move on his girl? Seems like a violent drunk. Yeah, I think Knox gets killed. That's the sequel to that post said. That's how Dead Pets 2 starts. That he said he was going to kill him. Is that for Netflix? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I don't think, I don't think Mr. Keating had a wife. We're skipping best quote because we're going to go. There are too many.

There are so many, so many wonderful quotes. could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? I was surprised how excited I was to answer yes for this. Yes. Yeah. It's been 30 years. Craig's generation doesn't even know what this movie is. They could just run this back.

Would you do it modern though? Would you do a 2019 version of this? Could that be the hook? The bigger challenge would be trying to get kids who have so much distraction to focus on specifically like romantic poetry. It would be interesting if it was like a guy who was teaching at a pretty Tony school who was trying to get them into like a little bit more. They read tweets.

They read tweets. They read tweets. They would just read like Darth tweets. It's all about instead of reading you're not reading Walden Pond

right. You're converting that into an Instagram. In memes. You're taking poem lyrics and turning them into little memes. Maybe Tate's on

something with his Instagram. It's a field trip to Walden Pond and then it's hashtag no filter and that's the modern version of this. Get the Riverdale cast. If we could have the society, we could have Dead Poets Society in 2020.

And answerable questions, the only other one I had, I'm really fascinated by the soccer team and how they did. I want to know they played. That could have been 20 minutes of deleted scenes. I would have watched all of them, see what formation they used. I also have a question is like, what's Keating's next job? Because you have to figure that that reference is probably not viable anymore at Welton. How did things end there? Well, there was a production of Midsummer Night Dream and didn't go.

So he's probably not getting another teaching job immediately. Does he ride the rails? Goes across the pond, man. Goes to find his love. Okay. Right? Don't you think? Yeah.

What were the ads in 1989 when you watch this movie that Ethan Hawk would land 30 years later is the biggest star from this movie? I mean, Robin Williams is no longer with us. So that was part of it. But I want to say at least 10 to 1, right? To Hawks credit, he's at peaks and valleys, man. But he never goes off the map. he's always been like in the mix

from the explorers on like every four or five years Ethan Hawk is like holy shit Ethan Hawk man I'm introducing a new category before we go to who won the movie I also really like the idea that even though the timeline it doesn't work out that Todd is the same person as Jake Hoyt in Trading Day

also a guy trying to oh wow you know no it's like it's the Reverend Toller character Moore from first reformed he's all like Todd is very much about finding that balance between hope and despair I think and probably also puts Peptobosmal into his whiskey. That seems like a Todd thing. For unanswerable questions, what about the phone?

In the, it's God bit. Who called him? Yeah. Who called Charlie Dalton in that scene? He had some help. Who was in on the bit with him? Yeah. You think it's God?

Maybe. Maybe it's one of the girls that he wants to be able to attend while in the catariff. One Boyle. New category. Oh, God. It's only, okay, occasional. It won't be every rewatchable, but I'm putting it in this one. Hottest take.

I think I won that. for this movie. Are we sure Keating didn't kill Neil? Oh, my God. Are we sure? Bill. He's got a boy, an emotionally distraught boy. So let me finish.

He's got an emotionally distraught boy. Clearly going through stuff, who clearly has some crazy shit going out of his dad, comes to him for advice, tells him you have to tell your son, you tell your dad what you just told me, Sees him the next day. Did you think this before the pod started or is it because it's 102 degrees?

It's really warm in here. It's really warm. Sees the kid the next day. Did you talk to your son? Oh yeah, I talked to him. It's clear the kid's lying. Yeah. Does nothing.

Maybe did he deserve to get fired? Maybe he did. We think of like he got railroaded, but are we sure he got railroaded? I can't believe that... Did he get railroaded? The two things that have happened on this podcast. are Bill assassinating John Keaton's character

and Chris standing up at long last for Mr. Perry Neil's father. Are we sure he wasn't completely negligent as somebody in a professor role? He probably loses his job over what happens to Neil. Probably any kind of like

okay let's break this down so Neil faked a letter what was the right way to handle it? He went to this guy and was like I'm going to be in the play But there's a chasm between Would he have gotten fired? Even in 1959 they're not like There's a lot of like shades of grade

of this story. So he knows the kid's full of shit. But his files it away and goes, all right, time for the play. Who's going? And meanwhile he knows this kid lied to his dad and his dad's a freaking psycho. But part, okay,

not to get too heavy and serious here, but I think part of the sincere tragedy of Neil's character is that you never really know how much pain he's in. You know, he expresses... But Keating knows, though. He knows from those two scenes. Not to that extent, though.

He knows that he knows the kid is like really tormented by this. He knows that he's struggling and he knows that he's really at a loss for how to navigate this phase of his life. But I don't think there's a moment where he thinks is this, is he in jeopardy? He's crying in front of him. I cry in front of you like six times a day. Always on podcasts about movies. He's star of the thing. I thought Keating could have handled some stuff better in retrospect.

He's in London thinking about it right now. Sure. You know with me in this? Count all those Premier League trophies won. Katie, that would have made a good epilogue. He took over Manchester United. I thought he could have handled some stuff differently. Do you have a hot take about this movie?

Aside from the crime scene? Yeah, that there needs to be more blood and less... Did Neil fake his own death? And less petting without consent. No, I don't know if I have a hot take. We didn't need to. I just made up the category of the spot. Who won the movie?

Williams. Robin Williams. Come on. Do you think Kurtwood Smith won it? Bobby? Coming out of the movie in 1989, who would you have thought won it? Robin Williams. Okay.

I was going to make the Bob Sean Leonard case just a little bit. There's nobody you can do those classroom scenes like Robin Williams could have. No, I agree. I think he won the movie as well. All right. Also, Walt Whitman won the movie. Yeah. Shout to Walt.

Shout to Big Walt. Which poet? And Willie Shakes. Which poet won the movie? I mean, a lot of great looks for a lot of great poets, but certainly the ones of, you know, you get your Byron mentioned,

Shelley. We get some Tennyson, but it's got to be Whitman and Thore for the weight that they carry. And Shakespeare, because of the role that a Midsummer Night's Dream plays, and we get some sonnets too. Right. And I think he explains

like how words can come alive if you just read them a different way. Who is the poet who inspired? What will your verse be? Whitman. Oh, so he wins. Yeah. What kid wins?

Robert Sean Loner. Yeah. But Hawke is really good too. Which drunk, chain smoking, murderous mom won? You think it was Neil's mom? This is a weird one. Out on Neil's mom. Out on Neil's mom.

I get it. You're going to blame Keating, but not Neil's mom? She couldn't stand up for her son? Couldn't try to support him? Put an arm around her bowl. and say, I believe in you? Gave him the same death set two years in a row. Neil's mom sucked.

That was Todd's parents. Yeah, Todd's parents. Oh, my bad. And they made him sign the paper. It's so hot in here. Neil's dad was like, I stormed the beach at Normandy. You're going to Harvard. Yeah.

We need to take our crowns off and open the window and let the snow in like Neil. Thanks for a listen. Before we pass out. Carpe Diem. We do this podcast called The Rewatchables, where we rewatched. I didn't do Dead Poets, but I remember something about that year, and we were like, who won that year? And we looked it up and we were like, drive him, Miss Daisy.

When was the last time anyone had a conversation with that movie? Not in any positive light. They sometimes might make fun of the movie. Right. Because it's not quite what it was pretending to be. Well, Dead Poets was great because I was with Robin Williams from, you know, more from work on happy days, not even Markimindi yet. He originally was on Happy Days.

And then had this and started to do movies and rolled according to garp. and never really found the perfect role. Yeah, I love garb, but I think it's considered to be not like a... Yeah, no, people didn't like it. And people weren't ready for him as a serious actor. Right. And he's a really good serious actor. He's a really good serious actor. And Dead Poet Society kind of broke that spell.

And it was the perfect movie for him at the right time. Yeah, and Good Morning Vietnam had a lot to do with that too, because Good Morning, Vietnam let him be a stand-up and have a few dramatic scenes. Yeah. And that prepared audiences to be ready to take him seriously as a high school professor. How much Ad Libby? was he doing in those school in the classroom scenes.

A lot. Because it seemed like you guys are like cracking up. It was funny, you know, everybody's been, Robin's been on people's minds since the past, you know, and I think about those days.

And I had a very funny reaction to him going off script a lot, which is that it, I was trying very hard to be a serious young actor. I loved Peter Weir. And I was, I think maybe because of the explorers,

I was friends with River Phoenix and River, was a great actor. Yeah. I really wanted to be a great actor. You know, when you're 18, you're full,

all this idealism about what a great actor is and what does that mean. And Robin just comes in a set, and all he does his joke. And the kids are all laughing, and I would never laugh. And he would just zero in on me.

He's just, I'm gonna get this guy. Kind of like Reggie Miller with Spike Lee or something. You know, he just zeroed in on him. And he just, he would do anything to make me laugh.

And the more he tried, the more inside myself, I retreated. And it made him insane. you know. But that was kind of weirdly your character to some degree, right? It was my character and it worked. But maybe that's why you were treating.

Well, and then I had this amazing experience because I kind of thought he didn't like me because he would tease me mercilessly. And then the movie was over and I got this call from Creative Artist Agency in Los Angeles, California, the biggest Hollywood agency in the world. And it was like, yeah.

I was just Ethan Hawk. I'm like, yeah, I'm in my college dorm, you know, back at college. And said, yeah, well, I'm Robin Williams agent. Robin says you're going to be a great actor and that I should represent you. Really? So would you like to meet?

And I said, yeah. And I got to meet these guys and, you know, that guy is still my agent, Brian Lord at CA. But we met through Robin Williams. That's amazing. And so I'm forever grateful to him for that. That was one of the first movies that had the ensemble cast of young actors who were clearly headed somewhere. and then you saw that the same formula has happened since a few times.

But I do feel like that was the first. And I remember like that was one of the staggering things about just seeing that movie in the theater. Like the acting from the kids was so good. It wasn't really a typical thing back then. That was a great experience too. And you know, one thing that was fun for us is that as good as Robin was in the movie, he really had a supporting part, right? I mean, you know, we all had big parts in the movie.

and in foreign countries, Robin Williams wasn't famous because he's very difficult to translate. He speaks so quickly. His jokes are so nuanced and so mercurial. And, you know, he's cross-referencing. You know, he'll make a joke about

Andre the Giant and Muhammad Ali and Larry Bird in one sentence. A lot of those references are people that in France they don't get. Yeah. So like Robert Sean Leonard, Josh Charles and I, we would get invited to Japan or Khan Film Fest

of all, because they didn't really care that much about Robin at that time. Later, his international fame went. So it was a great experience. All right, that's it for the rewatchables. Thanks to Voodoo. They have over 150,000 titles available to rent or buy on one of the best streaming apps there is. Over 10,000 titles you can watch for free on their ad supported on-demand service. Enjoy everything. Blockbusters, indie films. Right now, they have just like an open, Water. Jerry McGuire? Stand by me? Platoon? We did a Jerry McGuire rewatchables once upon a time. You can find that in our archives. Head to voodoo.com slash rewatchables to sign up, start watching today. VUDU.com slash rewatchables. And thanks to JCPenny, raise your game with MSX by Michael

Strayhan. Athletic inspired functional pieces designed for guys who are always on the go available exclusively at JCPen from working out playing golf for just relaxing. MSX by Michael Strayhan. As you covered, includes MSX basics, pants, shorts, shirts, sweatshirts, out of a big and tall, boys sizes, too. MSX by Michael Strahan is available exclusively at JCPenney. Visit a store near you or go to jCP.com. We'll be back a little bit later this month with more rewatchables. Until then.