The Rewatchables - ‘Deliverance’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Ryen Russillo grab their banjo and hop in the canoe to rewatch the 1972 adventure drama ‘Deliverance,’ starring Burt Reynolds, Jon Voight, and Ned Beatty. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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where you can find the Ryan Rosillo podcast coming on my podcast on Sunday nights pretty soon. That's right. Talking NBA, we're going to create some new gimmicks this year. Keep it fresh. It's like a marriage. Keep it fresh.

Chris Ryan. Yeah. Still cranking out the watch. Still 10 years plus. Not as fresh. Not as fresh. Ring of Philly special? Pretty adult.

Yeah. A little Embedeeee. Every week. We talk Sixers. Yeah. All right. I saw that you recognize Embedeed as a possible MVP for a runner. I did.

I was impressed by his 47. Yeah. The prestige TV podcast. My name is Bill Simmons. This is the last installment of one word movie month. I think critically acclaimed. Yeah. That's been the bus.

So is next month going to be like paragraph long title movie month? Oh, that would be interesting. Yeah. I'll think about it. It should just be Segal titles. Right? But not Segal movies. Guys, let's hop in the canoe.

Deliverance is next. Where are you going, city, boy? We'll find it. It ain't nothing but the biggest. River in the state. These are the men. Nothing very unusual about them. Suburban guys like you or your neighbor.

Nothing very unusual about them until they decided to spend one weekend canoeing down the Kahulawasi River. John Boorman's film of James Dickie's explosive best-selling novel. All right, Rosillo, I sent you a list of movies. You said they would never make deliverance in 2003. I just think the rules have changed quite a bit, even if like, it's kind of silly how you'll be like, oh, this can be made, this can be made, this can be made, but we're still totally fine with just murders in every show. So it's like, okay, when bad things happen, like bad things will continue to happen. So they should be in forms of film and television because we're not trying to make pretend everything good. But this is like just a different level.

It's a different level of some awful act that everybody knows from this movie. somebody hasn't seen deliverance. You're like, you haven't seen it? And then everybody just sort of looks at that person being like, do you want to watch it? And that's where this movie is historically because it has this moment that everybody knows about.

And I don't know. In a way, I think it props a movie up. And I would say it's one of the most ripped off movies of the last 55 years in all these weird ways. You don't think of it as like, oh, die hard on a blank? Yeah. But this movie has been tapped into a lot.

You don't think about it as like deliverance on a submarine or something like that. Kevin Day. in the River Wild. Yeah. But you could say it created Hillbilly Horror. It did. It probably laid the groundwork for Texas Chainsaw Massacre in all of those movies where

people either they go the wrong way, they get off the wrong road, they run into the wrong locals. It's been 50 years of our lives. They've made that movie. So what's the 72? Yeah. I mean, you could make the argument that this is the precursor to Exorcist and Jaws and like the Blockbuster Adventure that feels incredibly real and rooted in lived experience.

I mean. You thought the Exorcist? felt real. Up until the demon? Yeah, that's like, that's a divorce. It's dated now, but man, when it came out, I mean, people are like passing out in the theater when that came out. Yeah, no, I get that it was a big deal. It's just like that to me is a little part. Like, to me, Jaws, I think, is a perfect, perfect connection. Where you're just going, okay, you know, same sort of beats. But, uh, I don't know, Exorcist anyways, demonic shit lost me on that one. Well, the demonic shit, but like the 75% of Exorcist is this woman being like, is my kid crazy? And

going through her daily life and being like a single mom and trying to figure it out. And there's something about the fact that deliverance, which will forever be known for the pretty mouth scene, is essentially about guys having a weekend together. Yeah. And it's mostly about these four dudes trying to get back to the land to get back to nature and realize something about themselves. But it's got that one hallmark scene that's going to forever be in the Hall of Fame. I wrote down, it's about man versus nature.

It's about city versus country. It's the hillbilly horror, that whole thing, like, whatever our worst thought of what it would be like if we went down the wrong way. And then there's like a whole masculinity element, right? But the character Bert Reynolds is playing is the most agro, masculine, leading man guy. And it propelled his career. The first 45 minutes of this movie made him a superstar. And then by, you know, all of a sudden, the bone is sticking out of the side of his legs. And it's just like he's been completely stripped.

and John Voigt, who's supposed to be basically our proxy throughout this whole journey, and then he has to kind of step up, a little Brock Purdy style. He did better than Brock Purdy. I think he did too. But what other themes are in there other than those four that you're seeing, Riscilla?

You know, the city versus country thing is really funny because most people from another part of the country would think the four guys are as country as it gets. True. So I think this movie does one of the best jobs and being created of introducing you to the main characters in a way that you don't really see.

Having them have dialogue over all the geography. It's a, you know, I always think about the efficiency of introducing characters and, you know, I've made this joke before, but like some TV shows that you don't love the pilot, it's like, you were coming back from Vietnam, Chris,

and your wife had left you, but you were an all-American football player. Do you see this picture of my wife? I hold it in my wallet because she means a lot to me. It's not your fault. You blew out your knee, but we can figure out a way

get your kids back and you're like the fucking credits are still rolling. Like, you know, you know, you know, massage it a bit here. This, those guys just talking and be like, I know we'll have you back in time for you see the pom-pom girls. And like now all of a sudden you know all of them as much as you kind of need to. And then, of course, you learn more about them throughout. I thought like the execution of that is so good. And honestly, I, you know, I don't know that we see it that often because it was very different. I wonder, do you think this created the buddies doing blank and then some,

something goes sideways genre, too? Because I was trying to think, like, there's no way, like, they made a movie like this in, like, 1960. No, but to Ryan's point, this is also a lot, like, what happens, the way they set up alien, where it's like, it's just these people talking for a little while. Now, an alien, it's a little bit more drawn out. But the most amazing part about this movie is that essentially, like,

they take what would be the first 15 or 20 pages of a script and just to have it as voiceover over these incredible, this credit sequence. And even though you're like, oh, I think I know Bert Reynolds's voice, I think I know John Void's voice. You learn everything you need to know about these guys. And there's no music, so it's a little haunting a little bit. It's like, it's already unsettling.

Yeah. I was watching a movie a second time. You're already unsettled because you know. But the first time, I don't know if they meant it to be that, like, ominous. But watching again, you know, it'd been years since I'd seen it, those first few, like, just lines. Yeah. And you're like, you know, picking up everybody's voices. And even though they all sound the same.

And then it's just so funny because then once they get to, the first hillbilly area, they're acting like these dudes are like Westport, Connecticut people. And you're like, bro, you've got to fucking vest on. I don't think you're coming from Staples. Yeah. Although vests are in now with that group, so.

Well, the other thing... That's true. The four guys, so they go out, and you're right... I mean, there's a couple things that amaze me about this movement. I feel like the scene

overshadowed some of the other stuff. Yeah. The fact that these guys... their own stunts to me as a bigger deal of the seed. I was going to say that. They did all their own shit. And I don't think I fully realized that until I did the research. I was just like, man, they did an amazing job making it seem like these guys were actually canoeing.

And then you read the research. It wasn't even insured. There was like, well, if you die, you die. We've spent so much time being like, Tom Cruise really did that jump. Holy shit. Here's 900 YouTube videos of it. It's like Bert Reynolds almost died like six times making this movie. And he was just like 360 when they're going.

Like he really did that. that and he really got hurt. He broke his tailbone. And they're out there on a river. This is not green screen. This is John Borman, like, hip deep in water with a camera on it. And like, they actually made this this way. Did you know that whole backstory where the studio didn't even care? They couldn't, they wouldn't even pay for the insurance. And they're basically like, well, got to make it anyway. And they just like threw those guys out. And there's like three canoe scenes that they actually did. Well, the turnaround on the timeline from the book, the book is out in 1970, the movie's made in 72.

Yeah. Like, think how fast that is. And I didn't realize that the book was considered like historically 20th century. It made like top 100 lots for, I would imagine it would have to be like in one category, not like one of the top 100 books of any category going into it. But that turnaround was so quick. And then to your point in the insurance, you would imagine with Bert, like if he had a couple of the hits under his belt, like none of that doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen where they're just so whatever about the insurance part of it. Yeah, I thought, I guess as the years past. I thought these were like two huge stars in this movie. But Bert was not a huge star. And John Boyt was like considered ice cold. Like he'd had midnight cowboy, but it was a couple years before. Yeah, but he made a couple of clunkers. Yeah.

So there was like basically no stars in this. And like Ned Beatty, this is his first thing. Yeah. Ronnie Cox too. Yeah. They were theater guys, right? Bert's, Bert's IMDB leading up to this movie.

He was in Love American style for one episode. Skull Duggery. A TV movie called Hunter's for killing. That was slow. A TV movie called Run Simon Run. Yeah. 26 episodes of this TV series called Dan August,

where he played Lieutenant Dan August. Never heard of that. At least he had the title role. And then he was in a movie called Fuzz. So to say he had nothing going on, like this guy was basically like a TV actor, but not even like a famous TV actor. Probably like, you know,

like from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yeah, it's all that stuff. I mean, I know if he's as famous as Leo in that movie. The Al Pacino, Muso and Frank scene we're talking about. Now you've got to kick this guy's ass so that you can show the audiences that you're like this.

But he'd been bouncing around for, you know, 12 years at this point. So this movie comes out and then he's off. He makes Seamus. He makes White Lightning and Longest Yard in 74. But more importantly, he starts going on Carson and becomes like a key Carson guest. And by the mid-70s, he's super famous. He makes Smoky and the Bandit, which to me is one of the great success stories of all time, where it's just him and a car with a truck behind him.

and they're like, smoking and you're right. And that's the movie for two hours. And it made $300 million. It was massive. It was like the second biggest, third biggest movie in 1977. So by 77,

he's the biggest star in the world or at least one of the top three. But in this movie, he was not. To your point about the, we can go back to Bert, but the book, it does feel like that's a little bit, something that they did a little bit better

in the 70s was take these sensational novels, like novels that were like ripping up B.T. IP stuff. Yeah. And just be like,

we got to get this theaters in like 18 months. Yeah, Godfather probably the most famous example. Jaws was another one. Amityville horror. That turnaround is just like, especially when you think about how slow things work in that world to be like, okay, the book is like winning awards in 1970. And then this film is nominated for Best Picture in 72.

Yeah. Well, Bert became the breakout star. Yeah, top gross in movies. Sort of tourism. Yeah, tourism actually. Georgia was big. I'm going to give you the top gross of movies in 1972. Godfather won.

Way ahead, everybody else. 40 million more than the next one. Poseid and Adventure. What's up, Doc? Deliverance is four. Deep throat is five. What a time to be alive. It's the fifth biggest movie of 1972.

What are we just talking? Straight tickets or not DVD. 45 million tickets or sales. And then Jeremiah Johnson Cabaret, the Get Away, Last Tango, Paris. The Lady sings the Blues. So this movie was a phenomenal. on and a big reason was the scene.

Wait, I can't believe Deep Throat did the fifth most at the box office. Oh, yeah. People went all over the place. It was massive people were waiting in line. It's really weird. It's hard to imagine. 50 plus years ago. Wow.

All right, yeah. So then in this movie, the scene became the, did you see that moment? Which happens a few times. I don't know if they kept it a secret back then. You know, like we're like the crying game. When that came out in 93, there was like, there's a twist. Right. And I don't know if they.

Maybe did enough people know about the book at this point? I don't know how that played out. You know, it's kind of funny when you think about, though, like, the movement of information. And I can't speak to then. It's before I'm even born. But the crying game still, like, were pre-internet. And all you hear about, like, you end up going to the crying game because you need to find out about the twist. So I wonder if that had the same kind of thing.

When do you think that ended? Because I still feel like Blair Witch in the late 90s. You still had it with Blair Fight Club, kind of like you got away with it. it, right? Pally Berry going tapas and swordfish? Yeah, I think that that was widely distributed information. Yeah, I think once the internet really kicked

in, I don't think you could do that. Like, even there's a couple movies. Which is a good call. Because people were still trying to argue it was real. Yeah. I thought it was real. I saw it in the theater in Cambridge

and we left. I saw it in Kendall Square. I was like, that happened. I saw it in Kendall Square, too. Yeah. That would be weird if we're at the same theater. I think I saw it. Is it real?

Are you are? That's such a good call though, crazy. When you think about what was the last thing where it was like you didn't know what to expect? They tried to do with paranormal activity, but people were kind of onto it. No, but there's really like Blair, I mean, Texas chainsaw Masker had a little bit of that

because it was so snuff-filmy. People were like, what the fuck am I watching? But Blair, which was the one where people were just like, so did they find these tapes somewhere? And usual suspects is before that. No, you're right. But that's a good example. That's a good example of one where it's like, man, you have to see this.

You're never really. You also can't know or it ruins the movie. I ruined it for my buddy Jacko. You ruined usual suspects. He pissed me off. We were hanging out. Hey, look, look. This isn't the same level.

By the way, Kaiser Sos is Kevin Spacey. He's like, fuck you. Why? This isn't the same, but like we had a buddy, well, he's still a buddy. I was texting with him today. How? where guys were talking up Shawshank in 94, right? Because I just remember where I was in my dorm room.

And he's like, dude, he didn't do it. And my roommate's like, I cannot believe he fucking just told you. And I was like, well, I'm not a detective, but the title gives away. The redemption part. I think I will still. And I hate, like, I won't watch trailers of movies that I know I want to see. Because I don't like clues. Trailers give away way too much.

It's, I hate knowing, at least in storytelling, anything that's going to happen. But, yeah, how I go into it the whole time being like, I guess Dufrein actually is innocent because of how. So there you go. That was one where I didn't know what was happening. I thought under the rock. We talked about this one with the Shushing pod. Yeah. I thought it was the gun that he killed his wife with.

And instead, it was the thing for Red. I was like, oh, my God. This is the greatest movie ever. He left Red a note and money. Gone Girl was like that, too. That was probably the last one. Yeah, but Gone Girl... The last 10...

Because I didn't know about the twist. To the book point, I think Gone Girl had permeated the culture enough as a book that people were like, ah, okay. Blue chips, I knew they were going to win the big game and that he was going to resign. I found out. No, you're good at that.

The big scene in this movie is so disturbing and has not lost any of its disturbing aspects. And it's like, I think the part that breaks me the most is Ned Beatty just kind of gives up at some point. And I don't know how they film that or how they decided that whole thing, but there's this moment where he's just like, and I don't ever remember seeing a movie seen like that before, where it's just, there's this moment.

You can just kind of see it in his eyes. And then they have to deal with it the rest of the movie. I'm pretty sure, like, they're not hanging out three years later. It's like, hey, you've seen Bobby lately? No. Oh, that's the best part is when it's just like, see you, Bobby. Like, we're never going to talk about this. Yeah.

we'll never probably never mentioned to anybody i was anxious going up to it i mean i'd watch it in college this is not one i'm like you know what i'm just going to chill out and throw on yeah i'm just going to pick it up wherever yeah it's not one of these movies i'd argue i don't even know if it is a rewatchable uh because i'm not like i had to buy it to watch it for this and i'm like i don't know that i'm going to watch it's a smart investment right no it wasn't i mean i bought some bad movies but this this isn't a bad one it's just it's just at no point am i like eh i'm just gonna just chill. Yeah.

Space out a little mentally here. It's just not what this is. I was anxious going into it, knowing what was going to happen again, remembering the first time I saw the scene and the whole deal. But yeah, I mean,

when you're doing the unanswerable questions, like, I don't think six months later, you guys are like, hey, band of dunes. Like, I don't, do you, golf trip?

Can the four of you ever get together again? Definitely, well, three, I guess. I think from where we watchable standpoint, because this movie was on a lot in the 80s, 90s. It definitely was in the cable rotation.

I did like watching the canoe stuff. The canoe stuff's cool. But I never knew that it was like, if your fucking channel's like, oh, man, the canoe part. How did they do this? It was like one of those how did they do this, not realizing, oh, they're just trying to kill these guys. There's also like, there's a couple of really ambiguous scenes in this where it's cool to go kind of back and watch. Like, do you see Ron, do you see Drew get shot? Do you see like, can you tell it's the mountain man, the right mountain man that he kills with the dentures and everything?

We're going to get into all that stuff. I can't wait to talk about that. So this was nominated for Best Picture. John Borman for Best Director Best Film Editing Godfather won that year Bob Fosse won for Cabaret Nobody from

the four guys got nominated I don't I think Bert could have won for best support or got nominated for best supporting actor I thought he did the best for actor and what we're talking about I have a couple void issues

in this movie I have a lot of issues with this movie just so you know I was surprised I have a lot of picking nets Like when I went through it, I went. How do you feel about this now? Dueling banjos won the 1974 Grammy Award for Best Country Instrumental Performance.

But they didn't do dueling banjos at the Oscars, right? They did not. That's too bad. And then our guy Roger Ebert, who has just not been happy with One Word Movie Month. No. Coming off our... He's not happy with the first of the non-one-word movie month. Yeah, the next week's One Word Movie Month was really not happy with.

Two and a half stars for this. said, quote, totally fails in its attempt to make some kind of significant statement about its action. It's possible to consider civilized men in confrontation with the wilderness without throwing in rapes, cowboy and Indian stunts and pure exploitative sensationalism. I think Rob, I mean, not enough story for Raj. We know he's a story guy. But I do think he missed some of the point of this movie, was that it doesn't matter

what's going on wherever you live when you're out here. Everybody's equal and you don't fucking know what's going to happen. Yeah, you know, I think that there's also, this movie has, gives birth to, slash, exists in a continuum of, like, American Grindhouse B movies that are pretty raw. Like, there's, like, a big rape revenge horror subgenre of horror that comes, like, in the 70s. I spit on your grave. Yeah, like, this is just, like, it's not for me. And Tarantino, say he loves this movie and his book. Wow.

Which makes a lot of sense. I mean, the poem fiction thing is, was basically, you can say. say it's an homage, you could say it's even something more about the Ned Beatty scene. All right, we'll take a break, and then we're going to do the categories. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep

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Most memorable scene will go with this time. Most iconic scene in relation to like a way of film is remembered. Like, if you think of all the movies that we spend time talking about and all, like, it's hard to beat this one on like the scenes. Scarface has multiple the scenes. Yeah. You know, I mean, this is like Luke Skywalker learning Darth Vader's dad. Like, that's what this scene is. And that's in a way, you know, it's a series of movies. This is one of those deals where everybody immediately knows what you're talking about because of this scene.

And that's, I don't know what else is at this level. Probably the only thing I can think of. at this level is when Affleck goes into the florist in the town. He's like, I gave her a little taste. Just an immediate calling card movie, you know? He's trying to grease up for Silla with the town.

Just trapping it. Now that I think about it. Well, I've the only banjos, which also won the Kid Cutty pursued a happiness award for Best Needle Drop. Damn, spoiler. That seems really good and really weird and just like

incredibly riveting I think he just would be like, let's just do a music video for like five minutes in this movie. How about that? Ron and Cox is really into it? Like in Butch and Sundance where they're just riding bikes and listening to music for a while. You're just like, what? And it's like, all right, man, this is going now.

This is, went from like a little back and forth to like now we're playing a real song. It's kind of like in a TV series, you know, the office. They're like, wait, you can ice skate. Right. Like, yeah, Michael Scott can ice skate. Like, he's awesome at it. Like, okay, let's figure that out. Let's work that in.

And all of a sudden, Cox, they're like, wait, you're like a legitimate folk guitarist. Yeah, he was good. And where did they find the kid? Okay, do you know the story of this? I mean, I have it later, but do you want to do it now? Go. So in the book, the director apparently was really tough. Okay?

So he was like, find me a black albino. And they were like, that's not going to be easy. And so they saw this kid and they were like, this would be perfect for this whole idea of, you know, whatever that family tree is all about. He's just his kid who's out on the, out there playing the banjo and they saw this this kid and they cast him immediately just because

of the way he looked uh the banjo players playing the actual banjo behind him putting his arms through yeah it's so creepy um the kid himself didn't know how to play the banjo at all if you really go deep on um on this guy i don't know if you're ready yeah yeah billy like there's a youtube there's all these youtube videos of them and they're like can you play the banjo he's like nope and somebody can hands him a banjo and they're like, can you play it? And he's like, all right. And he just starts as if I gave one to you right now and said, play a banjo.

And he's like, I can't play it. And then there's this other interview. He's like, how much did this movie change your life? He's like, not at all. I wash toilets at Walmart. He got like, he was like, I used to get 20 bucks a month from the movie company. But then my wife kicked me out and they kept sending checks to her and I never got 20 bucks again. It was just like, holy shit.

But yeah, the- He should have learned how to play the banjo. He looks better now. If you're the banjo guy, like, learn how to do it? But asking that guy, like, do you know, to play the banjo? And he's like, nope, it's kind of like... And they hand him one. And going up to Christian McCaffrey, like, can you play quarterback?

And he's like, nope. I could change elements, let's go. I would love to know who, I mean, if I could research more of it, but there was all these different videos of them on YouTube. And then whoever was like, well, we fucking brought the banjo. Just like, have him strum it a couple times. And he was like, no, I don't. He just looked a very specific way.

and it becomes a really important part of how weird that movie's gonna get. Yeah. You know, I mean, between that and then the girl, like they went out and found people, like they knew what they were doing on the casting part. Yeah. It's like the town when AFUx started casting some of the locals.

It's a really great bit to where it's like, every one of those trips, there's always like the guy's like, should I bring my guitar? Right? You guys think there's room in the canoe for my guitar? I'll just bring it. I'll bring it.

Right. in the water. Like, hugged a. He's running. God damn it, Drew. Jesus. Yeah,

I thought about that too, because that guy sucks all the time. Yeah. But, you know, canoeing, lack of entertainment. Yeah. At the campfire, just like,

this is great. This guy's doing American Folkways. It's the early 70s. There wasn't a lot to do. Although Ned Beatty being like, I'm going to go fuck my sleeping bag. It's like, you know,

especially when guys are like hanging out. Like, I'm, my rules are like, I don't, I want to just, just, I had to watch that scene like three times.

I get it. But like, don't be super sherry about that stuff. Yeah, that's pretty weird. I have the, uh, behind a tree. I have the canoe scene. The first canoe scene. The opening canoeing. Addabwe.

Get with it. Every move you make, call it out now, Drew. I'm behind you here. Right, here we go. See how fast we can shoot this little bush down here. What is this? Is this some fast water we're coming up to? All right, Drew, just get in behind Lewis there.

It's so funny that they tease you with like, you know, this isn't going to go great. But we'll make it kind of like, and I think Ned Bady's legit struggling, which is good, because that guy's supposed to struggle being like, I'm not really ready for this. Allegedly, he was the best canoe person out of the four. He had the most experience. I thought Reynolds was a bit when he's wearing the sleeveless vets to begin with. But then you're like, oh, he's just going to go with this the whole time. I don't even know.

Do they even sell that anymore? I don't even know what that is. I looked it up. I want to buy one. I love the look. But, I mean, it can only be summed up as, like, the bad decision vest because it doesn't, it doesn't. What does it go with?

What is that? What is that? It's a sleepless scuba vest. The thing is that, like, it's, like, that's, like, that's, like, shark hunting wear. Yeah. Like, what do you, it's just, like, canoe trip. Like, you're not going deep sea diving. He has, like, the dive watch, too.

Yeah. Just in case we get about 20 feet down. I can still tell time. But he's already in the vest. Yeah, by the time they get there. If they remade this movie in the last, like, eight years, that guy definitely would have owned a tech company and had, like, gadgets and stuff and would have had the vest and had a whole thing and would have had a smart watch

that he would have been, like, studying his... Bad signal, though. They'd have to be like, I can't... Definitely bad. That's a 14 and I just... Well, we got the squeal like a pig scene. Did we cover enough of this? Because I feel like we kind of are avoiding it.

No, I think we got to talk about it now. Man, first of all, way longer than I remembered. It's so long. It goes on forever. For a long time. And they really stay on void for a while. And I think that did invent. Let's go through a little bit by beat.

Because we're doing the deliverance. We're watchables. We don't have to skip through it. I know you're not getting uncomfortable. But my favorite, the best part about it is like, Ned Beatty tries to be like, River only flows one way, Captain. Like, he's just trying to give him a little shit. And you're just like, as soon as it goes back.

you're like, well, this is going real bad. And like the first time they touch his face and you're like, hey, what's going on here? These guys getting a little grabby. And it just rolls from there. And they do a really good job. This isn't a farmer's market. Yeah. Linkering.

They do a really good job, not cutting. There's like some really long shot so that you can see sort of. The face touch is incredible. Yeah. And the way that they circle and circle them and like, you know, you're like run away, right? Like you guys should just run. But like you can see that they just feel. trapped by these guys.

Yeah, they're paralyzed for reasons that I'm not, or unclear. But then as it starts going, they make that decision to basically keep the camera on void as we're hearing all the other stuff. As he's belted to the tree. Which it became a horror movie. I feel like a lot of horror movies have done versions

of that. Even Pulp Fiction barred it. Yeah, yeah. Where it has Bruce Willis's face. Pulp Fiction, I think, cribbed a lot of that scene. Basically, they did the 1990s version of the thing. I think it's just that it's happening in the valley.

So you're like, it's a little bit more disoriented. And, you know, in Pulp Fiction, you're there. Like, nobody's going anywhere. In this, you're still kind of in that mode of like rooting for the to not happen. You're like, you idiots, you know? And then all the things that kind of led up to it is where Ned Bady's sick of Burt Reynolds and then they're like, all right, you go on the other case of Burt's involved in that initial transaction.

None of this happens. Right. Right. Okay. if Voitz involved, like it's, it plays. You have the two guys that are more marks. Yeah. Get off and they're completely oblivious, the face touching.

And yeah, in the movie, I'm like, is Ned Beatty supposed to, like, not run around in a circle in the woods? And you're like, what's his cardio issue? Yeah. And it just kind of like, you're right, it goes on for so long and you're still, which I think maybe is a great execution of the scene, is that you're still somehow hoping it's not going to happen. That's a great point. When you know what's happening. each time you're like, oh, if they had just not made, if they had not said something about like the whiskey still,

or if they had just not kind of given them shit about like, and he's like, Aintree, River don't go to Aintree. Like, it's just like, ah, man, this is crazy. Squeer like a pig is tough and disturbing as, oh hell. But if you're going to do the scene, then, you know, go for it, right? Well, they did. If you're telling the story, you know, and that, that, I mean, look, the execution of it,

we're still uncomfortable with it this many years later. So if you're talking about, like, making a point, job on. You also have the, you got a purty mouth. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, God,

they're going for a void too. And then you see Bert in the background. It's really cool how it's in the back. And then he comes into focus, kills the guy, and then he makes the Bert Reynolds. I think the brilliance of the movie, ultimately is rooted in the fact that,

like, your expectations are always subverted. and even after this, it's not like, it's not like you're like, yeah, John Voight triumphed over the wilderness and got revenge for his buddy. It's like he just barely gets out by the sca-of-tee. Yeah, he basically survived.

Yeah. Beatty's face after that is just the all-time shell-shocked what the fuck just happened to me face. And then they have to move on, which gets to the next scene, the big canoe, the crash scene. Yeah. Just fucking unbelievable.

I can't believe those guys filmed this. that any of them just, like there's quotes from Ned Beatty that we'll get to later where he's just like, well, they told me if I died, they'll just figure out

what they do the rest of the movie. Yeah. It's nuts to rewatch this. The best piece of, like, half-ass internet, one of the best pieces is just in that second canoe crash.

They kept doing it with a dummy, and Reynolds just like, goes up to Borm, and he's like, what's it look like? And he goes, it looks like a dummy in a canoe. And he's like,

all right, I'll do it. Like, and it's just, I mean, Conflicting reports of like that he woke up at a hospital bed or whether he just got hurt. Yeah. But he definitely got wiped out in a hard way.

Okay, but you guys have been like canoeing before, rafting. Like if you wanted to make the shot work, it doesn't mean you're going to die. Sure. I mean, guys could scout ahead and go, hey, there's actually not a ton of rocks here and you could go over it. Just not used to seeing this with the four people that if any of them get hurt, they can't keep filming the movie. That's what's unusual about it. death ratio here is a lot lower than maybe we're discussing. Like on major movie sets?

Can you do things overrated? I don't know. I mean, if you're sitting there 50 years ago and you have to make a movie and all these guys are kind of, you know, other than Void who'd had, you know, a couple big swings in the past, I don't think it's that crazy to jump out of a canoe, especially if there's some technical people around that knew the area. Well, they said my radio bus drowned and somebody had to jump in and, like, pull them out from the bottom. So maybe I'm not selling it enough then.

Well, you're doing another thing that happened. So the next thing, John Voigt climbs a fucking cliff. Yeah. That really happened. He just climbed. They were like, we don't know how to cheat this, and they just had him climb it. And he just kind of figured out how to climb it. The shots of him on the cliff face are unreal.

Yeah. I mean, I guess they're doing day for night. I think Cruz got inspired by this? Yeah, I'm sure Cruz is it delivered. Chris is a big one for him. John Voigt can fucking do this. Anyway, they did that. We also have John Void shoots a guy and dies and does the dead body

rope trick. That's enjoyable. That's a trick. That's one of the guys do a lot. We have the second... Is it a badge? Yeah, that's a trick. We have the second crazy canoe scene.

We didn't just have one. We have the second one that's just as harrowing. With poor Bert in the canoe screaming. I don't know how he doesn't fall out. He's got his femur sticking sideways out of us. Oh, Mike. Oh, Mike.

Lewis Medlock, his femur's sticking out. I mean, how can you not love canoeing? Lewis, how tough is he? Is this guy tough or what? Bouncing around in the canoe? You're trying to tell me he doesn't like camping? I wish we could damn this river every week. I know it doesn't look like he loves it, Mike, but he loves this.

He loves it. This guy, Drew, I love when somebody brings a guitar on a canoe trip. It's an entertainment, Mike. You gotta love it. We have weight versus the sheriff. Look, sheriff, we've been through quite a lot. I don't know what's wrong with your man there. Mr. Queen's got a brother-in-law.

Back up in there somewhere. He took off hunting a couple, three days ago, and nobody's heard from him since. And Mr. Queen thought maybe all might have happened up on him somewhere. well we didn't don't let them go these boys is lying the sheriff seems pretty good

he's like oh man this is not going to work out for these guys then it does and then we have goodbye Ed goodbye Bobby I don't think I would be seeing you for a while

it's like that's to say the least I don't know most rewatchable scene I'm not going to go with squealed like a pig I'm going to go with the big canoe crash scene is my favorite

I'm going to add on a cliff banjo banjo banjo's great banjo's awesome because when that when that would come on and we used to have

Irish happy hour at the last chance in college and what happens at Irish happy hour is it just time of the day or just means you get to drink earlier

and then it's like it just means the rest of the night is way more of a fucking mystery but they would have they had a banjo guy and they would occasionally

just end it with this just duel he and the guitar and people, I've never seen people drinking listening to this song, not go absolutely wild. You know the other song that's like that is that Charlie Daniels song? Yeah, Devil Went Down to Georgia. Yeah, people fucking love that song.

You could hate country. The whole bar. Yeah. Whole bar is into that song. Wait, you've been in bars where people just start going off to Devil Goes Down to Georgia? I've been in bars where the band, whatever, the house band, played that song and people fucking went nuts. That's a great call.

Yeah. That's like a high approval rating song. Woods Age the Best. We mentioned Bert's sleeveless, wetsuit. Not sure if that's available in stock right now. I looked. It's dicey. There's some body glove stuff there, but I don't know if I trust the three millimeter. The hierarchy of the buddies and how it flips when Burke gets heard, I like. I think that one's good. Because you always have the alpha dog and the crew.

The archetypes. It's just great Lord of the Flies style. Like Drew's the sensitive one who brings like art to the wild and, you know, Lewis is the survivalist man of action. I like canoeing movies I really like the River Wild Do you have a canoe? Do you own? No. Have you been on a canoe trip? Like a long time ago, not any time recently.

It's been a while for me too. Yeah. I went in middle school. But I like that hole. It's so happy, but there's like this menacing undertone anytime you're in a canoe and a movie, it just feels like this isn't going to go great. Something's going to happen.

And then something to use of this happen. Oh, it's a movie. So eventually. Yeah. If it was just like a really cool canoe trip. Like Roger, you're a beautiful. I literally just wanted everybody to have a good time. It's a straight fly through.

Why don't we've gotten some more guitar playing? We made this in well under 12 hours. It's great. Rod, three stars. This is my favorite, Wood's Age the Best. Incredible dead guy performance. They kill the rapist, and that guy is in there as a dead guy for like seven more scenes.

They're carrying him around. Yeah. He's upside down. They're bearing him. He's just pretending he's dead, like, staring up. And he always looks dead. It looks like he's actually dead. Pulls the arrow out way after.

Yeah. As they're discussing what they're going to do. Normally, when somebody's dead for that long on screen, you see something. Like, you see, like, his chest go up and down or you see a blank. But that guy looked fucking dead. Are you suggesting just one Oscar, that guy? I thought about it. Honestly, between he and the cucumber lady, Dionne Waiters for me.

Yeah. What else do you have for the... What else do you have for in the line? Well, I just thought... that the entire movie basically gets laid out and somewhat tipped off in the conversation that those guys have in the

credit sequence is just they even talk about the rape of the land. Oh yeah, but Reynolds says that. There's just like all the thematic stuff that's going to be grappled with is essentially what feels like a throwaway conversation of overlapping Robert Altman dialogue. So I love that. And

I kind of really I really love the mini mystery of like, does Drew get shot? Who shot him? Is it that guy? I'd forgotten how ambiguous and also like, because Ed is Ed, he kind of needs it to be the right man who he killed. Because like the idea that there's just some random hunter out there on the,

on the mountain side is like that would be a sin for him, you know? I did rewind that to slow mode. There's no gunshot for Drew. He definitely just has a meltdown. Drew? Yeah. You think he just throws himself in the water because he can't end up to what they did? He had like a nervous breakdown.

Yeah. Okay. I don't know if this is a good pivot then from good to bad. Are we done with good? We're not done. Do you have any more wood sage the worst coming up later? Want to save it? Yeah, I'm going to save it.

All right. Any what stage the best? Um, maybe just planning. Yeah. Better planning. Yeah. But hey, what do you want to do next time we go do something? I don't know, not have our cars, just leave them with strangers.

With the Griner Brothers. Right. Insulting them immediately. Yeah. Yeah. You know, uh, maybe, maybe we'll get off on the left side of the bank with more clearage. Yeah. Next time.

All fair. Would you have for the Big Gahuna Burger Award? Best use of food and drink. Well, clearly the, the lodge that they go to at the end. Get in the meal. Yeah. What did they, I couldn't tell what they served. This corn is delicious.

Yeah. Okay. That lady, though, remember her talking about the cucumber? Yeah. They measure it. She was, she was, on fire. She had like two lines. Cucumber later. Because they clearly just went,

hey, keep casting the locals. Local dinner, you're going to have it. And usually a lot of times, that can be a disaster. Yeah. Those people were incredible. Like, clearly they weren't actors. And all of a sudden it's just, they nailed it. Like, I don't think they were actors. I think those were all just locals that they cast for that final dinner scene.

It's so awesome when, like, Bobby's just like, yeah, this is delicious. And it's just like crying at the table. We didn't talk about that enough. This movie does a really good job of pivoting. where it feels like they're safe. And then there's another 15 minutes where it's like...

Are they going to turn on each other? Are the locals, their friends? Yeah. Is Ned Beatty going to turn? Is there? What's the deal with the sheriff? It's going to happen? Can they keep their story together?

And it's like uneasy in a totally different way than it was when they're on the river. I like it. It's smart. It's a great part of the movie. Yeah. Because it would be too abrupt. It would...

There's a couple things that I will get to a little bit later. But I'm with you. I think that last... Like a lot of times, movies like the tombstone ending you're like didn't the movie just end? Yeah. Oh, it's not over yet. Okay, now it's over. And Tombstone ends like seven times.

Yeah. And it just is too much. This drags but like in the best way. Yeah. It's smart. Danna Thieves Benny Hanna Award for scene stealing locations. It's got to be the river. Even that opening shot. Sure. Just how fucking cool the giant river is. Would you have for

Great Shot Order Award, Chris? Most cinematic shot. I had the, you know, the cliff. The cliff. The cliff phase. and Voight getting stabbed on his own arrow. I thought that was just a great shot. And I think they do, for the nighttime stuff, I think they're doing day for night. So they shoot it during the day

and then with a filter, it makes it look like it's night. But it gives that really eerie feel. The Madler Rubin Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene? I'm going to go with No. And that. Yeah, we're good. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. So I'm confused by canoe trips.

So they're going. Wouldn't you just keep going in that direction? How does it circle back around where you end up where you started? That's why they need the guys to drive the car. Yeah. A lot of canoe trips or any way, rafting that you drop your car off somewhere and then they busts you. Yeah, because I used to do them in middle school.

Was that clear enough? Yeah, that's why they got to get the Griner Brothers. That's why. I bet they got a text like right when they explain that. To Ryan's point, the fucking funniest thing is that they're like, we're going to drive for however many hours to get to this river in the middle of nowhere. I have no plan for how we're going to get the cars down there. Yeah. Hey, do you mind?

Like, we don't like you, trust you. You won't talk to us. The banjo kids get at banjo, not super friendly. There's like a weird thing going on in this room with another old lady. Like, we're dropping a lot of clues that this isn't super safe. Hey, we don't know you. Will you take our cars down for 40 bucks after we insulted you? Yeah, no problem.

I have to, for some reason. And I'm going to cut you off on the road and just like. Yeah, right. Yeah. By the way, very, that's a really good tell. the way that that scene was shot, like I had to just, I had to bring it up,

to mount the camera, to have Bert, and was it, Boyt in the car together? And Bert's clearly just driving like a maniacs through the woods and it was all real. And Void's kind of like,

Jesus, dude. That was really good. Almost just like somebody told Bert, like, if you crash this, we don't care. I just misunderstood that scene. I haven't seen this.

I thought they were moving the cars to a different spot. No, because when you go on a trip, usually it's like you're part of a group. They're driving on top, And then the cars are going to be brought down. Yeah, one person is going to...

We should do a lot of canoe trips lately. We should do a watchable's canoe trip. Okay. Yeah. Craig, book that. Did you have a Butch's girlfriend or now? I mean, so there's the weak link of the movie where it's like, this is my least favorite part, and then there's the weak link.

And I would probably say, Drew is the weak link. He's just a dumb guy who can play the banjo and that's about it. Guitar. And had a fucking aneurysm and fell out of a canoe. Yeah. Would stage the worst for Sillow? I do think that they're purposely vague and the execution years later isn't as good.

It didn't bother me when I was younger because I think I was still like, you know, processing the scene. But the Drew falling out of the canoe. So I was actually frustrated watching it again years later because I was like, are you guys trying to be like cool, vague in the storytelling and it's this another layer of mystery in this movie? I just think it's poorly executed.

Like, I think they actually do a really bad job with this. So you would rather have either heard the gunshot or just have it would be able to do. explicit what happens to him. Yeah, because it doesn't make it. It's too quick. They try to sell you the idea that he could have been shot because Bert Reynolds is looking up as he's canoeing.

They did that on purpose. They wanted him looking at the ridge overhead as if there was something that he was worried about. But it doesn't, it's still, that's not sold enough that it doesn't really make a ton of sense. And then Drew clearly like, he's not listening to anything. It goes on, it's not this abrupt thing where he's having any kind of dialogue and then it's over.

he's kind of checked out mentally. So now what they want us to believe is that he's so traumatized by what they just did or the decision that they came to that like 40 minutes later he's like, I'm just going to kill myself. Yeah.

That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. In the movie... Can I counter? Yep, but I'll just explain it. In the book, when they run into his body later on, they apparently examine the body and they found that he is shot.

Yeah. They decided to change it in the movie. So it was something that could have happened on the rocks or something. Right. The director says he refused, refused to continue anymore. That was the director's interpretation and changing

it from the book. And so, I feel like that's a really, it was a tough sell for me to feel that he all of a sudden just wanted to kill himself because he was mad about their collective decision moments before. You semi-sold me on that one. It's probably better if he got sniped.

You'd rather have a definitive. Or the next day. Because my counter was going to be, I think he was just this overmatch guy, not like, the sharpest tool in the shed who was literally having a nervous breakdown in front of us for like 45 seconds on the canoe because the guy's like hey Drew and he's talking to him and yeah he's just like he's you could see him like falling apart and then it's just like he almost had a seizure and just

fell over I need one more scene then I need a hint at him falling apart mentally and then the execution of that it was it was too it's too abrupt I mean again I know this is nominated maybe you're right I think it's both. I think he's having a nervous breakdown and he probably gets shot. But even if he gets shot, that is actually a pretty good marksmanship. And then when he drove to the basket and just kicked it out when he had the layup, I just was like, what the fuck, man?

Oh, no, I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about Benson's. More what stage is the worst for me. Young John Voigt just looks like Angelina Jolie. It's disturbing. They really look alike. That didn't occur to me at all. I didn't think it was.

Once I noticed it, I was like, Jesus. Ned Beatty's teeth, what's going on with his teeth in this movie? I had a question. I'm so glad you brought this up. It's like, they're like dark. Isn't that what guys in the 70s teeth look like? Really? I don't know. He was in theater, not English theater.

Here's my question for you. I'm so glad you brought this up because I was wondering, did his agent, like, send in his headshot? They're like, hey, they're casting this thing. And then Ned Beatty's like, I can not brush my teeth for six months. Right. And then they're like, no, you didn't get one of the hands. hillbilly rolls. Right.

You are one to be, you're going to be one of the city slickers. He thought he's playing Purdymouth. I know. Yeah, he's like,

fuck, I've been, I mean, let my teeth rot here in anticipation of this role. I just wonder if there was, was there a disconnect between the Asian and the casting director? No crest white strips back then.

What else do you have for age or worst? I think we've made a lot of advancements with depicting femur breaks sunscreen. And this one's pretty disturbing because it's like, I think early in the days of like, let's just show it. Let's see what kind of rating it for this. And it just looks like a chicken

cutlet is hanging off his leg. It's in the wrong spot. It's bad. It's like, but it's cheese at times. Yeah, but I was like, for a second, I was like, oh, does he like a sock tied around his knee already? And I was like, oh, no, that's supposed to be like the fat and muscle and bone sticking out. And it's really gross. Not good.

Plus, that's such like a big giant long bone in your body. I don't know if it would go sideways like that. It should have been lower. I would have gone lower tibia for that way. There you go. Anyone would stage worse for you other than what we covered? I'll tell you another part of the mystery storytelling of the final scene on the cliff there. Well, it's not necessarily the final scene.

Very classic beat of Voigt when he takes the shot at the deer. He can't. Yeah. Hand trembling. Don't love that scene. To be honest with you, I get what you're trying to sell us because then there's going to be some sort of coming full circle later on where he has to make a similar decision with higher stakes.

I mean, again, this isn't new. But then he falls on his own arrow, which they even admit how absurd that is, because then they have the doctor address it almost to sell it more to us. Where the doctor's like, damn, this thing I've ever seen. And you're like, he sort of rolled over onto his own arrow. And then again, the vagueness, much like Drew being shot, is, is this the right guy? Is this Purdymouth guy? And then they go, well, they mess with us with the teeth and the dental plate when, in fact, the dental plate, like, I don't know if that guy has a dental plate.

I don't know if he owns one. I think of that part in the game, he doesn't care anymore. He ran back and put the dental plate. Yeah, he was like, let me. let me just, if I'm going to go a little further from camp, I want to look presentable. Yeah. Change clothes. So there's this, is it an unnecessary fucking with the audience or 50 years ago where people

like, oh, I don't know what's going on? Because then you're going through the credits. It is the same guy. It's clearly the same guy if you look at them. It's just Mountain Man. They put a hat on him in one scene. They don't. Then the argument, it's like, well, it's a different gun too.

Okay, but they took his gun. They were in a super huge hurry to get rid of all firearms where I don't know that that would have been my decision at the time going back earlier. That's a good nitpick. Yeah, all right, all these guys are honest. Who knows how many? Let's get rid of anything that can defend us. Great idea.

Chuck them. Wouldn't have done that. Don't get my bow and arrow. There are forums on, is it the same guy? It's the same actor, and I believe it's the same guy. I don't know if that's executed as well. So I had two real problems with this. So I guess it's supposed to ask the question.

I thought it was a different guy. I got to be honest. Oh, I always thought it was the same guy, but it's supposed to be like if it's not the same guy. it's more like, oh no. Right. And I get what they're trying to do. I just, in the Drew shooting in that moment,

I couldn't believe how underwhelmed I was that I went. I almost felt like this was cheap and poorly executed. Yeah. I like it because it's like, is it okay that Drew just takes blind revenge? And he's not sure about who he's killing. Well, but the guy definitely turns his gun on him, though. He shoots at him. Yeah.

He shoots at him once he sees that Ed's aiming his arrow at him. Yeah. Ron Bergerty flew to where best time for a pee break. I'd go between the first and second canoe days. You're not really missing much. For the raft. When they're saying he's going to fuck his sleeping bag.

And then Ronnie Cox playing. Yeah, I'm good with Ronnie Cox's music. Blind Lemon Jefferson songs. What do you think of the title for this movie? Is there a better title we could have come up with? Day night. Guys trip. Date night.

They said Deliverance. there's like a whole extra meaning about these guys were getting deliverance from the rigors of city life basically and this was supposed to be you know I don't know if that really translated

it's a great name I don't know what it is it just it works it holds up it you know again there's something ominous about it too yeah it's also become shorthand now you say deliverance that everybody's like yeah best quote

I could give you either sometimes you have to lose yourself before you find anything or what the hell do you want to fuck around that river for because it's there go with those two yeah they have some i think the first one is my favorite one because it's it's sort of like forced upon you yeah like bert reynolds is really you know he's really because then when they have the what i think would also be the time to take a pee break the dinner scene or the campfire whatever and and reynolds is like hammering this idea of like going to tear it all down to build it back up and all that, you know, like, but I thought when he goes, you got to,

you know, find yourself, get lost, find yourself. I thought that it was actually pretty good. Like, it was a really well-written line and it kind of worked. It's also one of those things that's been ripped off so many times since then that it's hard to go back to the original and be like, blown away by some of that stuff, but it's pretty cool to hear him be like, the system's going to collapse. Yeah, he, they want to like force this other theme in there. And a lot of times when you try to do that, it just feels like it always like, okay, I get it. Like you're making sure I know what the theme is. And I felt like that was really natural.

Yeah. Which is actually kind of hard to do. Stephen A. Smith, Hottest Take Award. I kind of did it already at the top, but I do feel like this is one of the most secretly ripped off movies ever made in all different directions. And I don't know if it was just first to the market with a lot of these themes,

but you can feel the DNA all over the place. City people going to the wilderness on a trip is like one of the, there's like 40% of like horror movies that have ever been made. I'll start with that. Yeah. Or it's like run out of gas in the wrong spot or let's go. Maybe that somebody in that house can help us. What was the Kurt Russell movie?

Breakdown. Breakdown. Yeah. That's a great movie. Yeah. Technically could have been in one more movie month. Yeah, technically it could have. That ends up in the tractor trailer chase scene, right?

Yeah. That's a really good movie. Oh, wait, or is that U-turn? No, it's break. I think U-turn is the one with Sean Penn. Kurt Russell did breakdown. Kurt Russell's breakdown. That's what JT.

our guy J.T. Yeah. You don't have a hottest take to you? I do. What is it? Let's hear it. Are we sure the relatives would show up to jury duty? Yeah, that's a good question.

Do you think those people would show up to jury duty? They're like, I got this. I got my summons. Where would you even send it? I avoided jury duty for like my first 15 years in L.A. Did you? And then they finally just started sending me the most menacing letters. And I finally.

Did you serve on a jury? I ended up not getting it. getting out of it. Okay. But yeah. I got it. I was harassed by the vineyard. The vineyard was trying to get me to show up forever when I was at school. And my father was like, I tried to explain, but hey, this is like a local off-season thing. We can't figure this one out. Yeah. I'm in college. I can't come back for a weekend for jury do. They were at it. I keep having to write all these different things. Yeah. So I got out of that one. And then when I'm in Boston, oh, must be nice student aid and whatnot. Uh, so. So,

When I was in Boston, I finally, you know, I got, I got called for it. And I had to go in the whole deal. And they're about to put on Mrs. Doubtfire. And they hand us like a sub shop menu. And they're like, we're going to be in this for the long haul. And I was like, what, I was like, well, I'm not going to fucking say. I don't want to watch Mrs. Doubtfire. So I go up to security.

I was like, is there any way I can go to my car and get a book? Because I have a book that I'm reading. I didn't, I didn't bring it in. He's like, well, you should have brought it in. I was like, I get that. That's not why I'm asking. like he's like well I have to follow you to your car it was like a little back and forth I was like I was like this is great so I grabbed my book I'm like all right I'm not going to pay attention

anything I'll get a sub and uh sat down to the book's like this is going to suck they're like buckle up and then it got settled immediately oh that's good so I had do you have like a jury duty story no I would a tangent this is I did one when I was living in Boston three days you were on it like went on the jury okay are you allowed to talk about this technically you can't make money You can't make money off. So this has been an unsponsored podcast. Yeah, it was just three days, and we came to a verdict, and we said the person was guilty. For what?

For what? It was an attempted murder. You served on an intent. I don't know how it happened, but it happened. Wow. Really? And as he was leaving, he looked at all of us, like he was trying to memorize our faces. I've never been more scared about it entire life. one of the chances that he

I think that's why I live in L.A. He ever contributed to the sports guy mailback. Hi. That would have been great. He's like, well, I was at home and I was watching Philly. And then Simmons is like, all right, fuck this guy.

Let's take a break and we'll do casting what-ifs because there's some great ones. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce. and some very tasty, limited time flavors.

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Visit the website for full terms and conditions. All right, so the writer of the book, Dickie, James Dickie. He, um, writer one of my favorite poems. I was using last name. Yeah, I'm just saying. James Dickie. Yeah.

He wanted Sam Peck and Potter to direct the film. How do you think that would have gone, Chris? I don't think they would have finished this movie. Yeah. I think everyone's dead and then canoes. Dickie also wanted Gene Hackman to play Ed. Whenever we do 1970s movies and we do casting, whatever, it's fucking awesome.

It's just like, we wanted Redford and Brando. Yeah. Well, this one, Borman said he wanted Lee Marvin and Marlon Brando to play Ed and Lewis. And Lee Marvin said, we're too old, use younger actors. So then Jack Nicholson agreed to play Ed, as long as Brando played Lewis. too much money

Brando's out Nicholson's out and then they go to the Donald Sutherland Charlton Heston group Southerland would have been perfect for any Southern would have been a great ed Yeah he could have done Drew

Yeah He had a place up in Vermont Like in the weirder part of Vermont Where I bet his canoe skills were What constitutes the weirder part of Vermont Bordering on the Northeast Kingdom Okay Which would maybe be

This version of that. I got lost up there once in my truck and I got chased around. Did you really? Yeah, it was fucked up. Jesus. Was it the guy's trying to get you to do jury duty? They're like, hey!

No, totally. I was driving through this area. Family member owned a piece of land in Holland, Vermont, which is on the border of, like, the border of the town is Canada. And so we used to hang out in this little weird area, whatever. So I was trying to find it again while I was in college. So me and a friend got in my, I had a Toyota, which is a mistake. and I drove all the way up there

and I got lost on all these back roads and I found like a Twin Peaks one-eyed jacks like club thing like they had all these signs and shit out front and they weren't super welcoming and then all of a sudden I had like these trucks chasing after me on these side roads in the woods

and I'm just flooring it through the snow being like I hopefully I don't hit anything. But you know what? I mean honestly I think they were just like they saw by the way I had mass tags on a fucking custom six inch lift kit Toyota with a gator net that was broken off the back.

Okay? So they saw the rig and it likely was like, let's just fuck with this guy a ton. I don't know that anything was going to happen. This is now turning into life advice. I love it. Weird. Some other casting what if Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart

were both in the mix and I just find that those guys may have aged out of those parts. I thought they made that up. That's not true. I rejected that for half-fast. You rejected it? How do you decide your judicates? I just like if it doesn't pass the shit detector test for me,

I don't put it in. Imagine him in that role. I'd be like, what are you saying? Wait a second. Well, Sutherland said, Sutherland objected to the violence, but then later said,

I regret not being in the movie. Yeah, Donald Sutherland's, I think his standards may have slipped a little over the course of his career. I don't, like, and even if people are listening to this, being like, you know, why would you,

I don't understand what the standard is for storytelling and stuff and how much, that's changed or if it's if it really has changed or i don't like it's awful but i mean this movie really was pretty brazen yeah it's hard to in the moment i don't think we can we've been desensitized over the last 50 years but now that sutherland has has chosen many rules since then he's definitely been unsensitized yes um the ruffalo hannah rubinac partridge overacting word they knew and they let it happen don't you call me lady i come in here i give these things to

you? Give it all you got! Give it all you got! I treated you like a son! You fucking stand me in the heart! Fuck you! This is pretty easy. Well, I had two choices.

I don't know which one you're going to pick. What did you have? I had Ronnie Cox and Bert Reynolds together when they're like, It is a matter of law! The law! Ha! What law?

It is a matter of the law! The law! the law is this the same part where he goes this ain't one of your fucking games you killed a man yeah I had that run down

the rapist death scene is like about 12 seconds oh because that guy like it's like a fourth grade his death rattle goes on for a while yeah just kind of keeps going I think Voight's first

bow and arrow shot at the buck oh the shaky hands yeah nobody's hands are going to shoot that we get it you're not super comfortable yeah that's that's I would have been like hey, give me 40% of that action.

It's like Ben Simmons at the free throw line. Keep bringing Ben Simmons. Are we supposed to get the impression that, like, what, Ed got this archery set up to impress Lewis or because Lewis is always browbeating him into going shooting or something, but doesn't really like doing it? I don't know. He has all the gear.

Best that guy word. I mean, I think it's Ronnie Cox. Even though he's Ronnie Cox, I think to some people he's that guy from Beverly Hills, and Robocop and Vision Quest and 19 other movies. Total Recall. Yeah. But he's kind of a that guy and then he eventually became Ronnie Cox.

He is a that guy. Yeah. He graduated to Ronnie Cox, but I still think at this point, he's that guy from deliverance to... What's his character's name and total recall? Coahagan. Coahagan.

Coahagan. I think that's a really great way of doing it. It's like a time machine who... That guy award... Yeah, because the actual that guy's in this movie, nobody would have been in here. But when you're watching it, even I'd ever seen it.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, he's young. I have James Dickey as the sheriff. Oh, is that guy? Yeah, you know, he's the sheriff, right? The guy that wrote the book. So the sheriff who's like, don't you ever come back here or the other guy? That guy's like, don't you ever come back here? Who gets like two or three scenes?

You know what? And he's really good in all of them. He's good. He's got kind of like a semi-fish-eye thing going. Yeah, it doesn't look like an actor. Yeah. Yeah. He kind of got marker corrected by Fred Dalton Thompson.

Oh. You know? Deanne Waiter's a word. Probably the banjo kid, right? I got Redden, man. Yeah. Or Redden's banjo hands guy, whoever that is. It's the banjo kid.

Because the eyes, I'm telling you right now, he looks a lot better as an older man. Thank God. Than as a kid. He grew out of that face. That's the good news. But yeah, looking at that kid, and then when he's fucking endangling the banjo over the bridge. He should just have a sign that says, you guys are fucking doomed.

Yeah. And yeah, he's the winner. It's one of the creepiest looking people that have ever been a movie. It's just like that would have just been red flag number 10 for me. I would just be like, you know what, fucking Lewis? I'm going to go. I'm going to watch the Georgia Tech game. You fucking take these boats yourself.

Recast and couch. Can I give you John Cazale and the Ronnie Cox part? Fratero? Yeah, sure. I was trying to find a place for Dennis Hopper in this movie. Easy rider, I don't know. I don't know. Dennis Hopper would have been great as one of the...

The mountain men? Yeah. He'd been great as to the... But the fact that the mountain men are like... Yeah, you never see them again. Never see them again. Yeah, it does help. Well, look, I mean, I don't know if he's eligible for it,

but Mountain Man number one is... He sells it. He does a good job. Deliverance was shot in Northeast Georgia. The inspiration for the Kalawa-Sassy River was the Kusawati River, which was damned in the 1970s. So that's what happened.

There's crazy stories about your guy James Dickie showing up drunk and getting a fist fight with the director. Yeah. He used to run in winning. Jim Harrison. From the Muppets? No, the guy who did

Legends of the Fall, like the big Montana writer. And they lived pretty hard. I'd like to be a Montana writer. Yeah. Everything's alleged, but there was a fist fight allegedly.

These are my words. Borman suffered a broken nose and some broken teeth, but then they made up, and then he cast Dickey as the sheriff. They banned him from the set, though, and then they brought him back to play a major part. They used to just roll with the punches back in Holland. I love that, just getting banned from the set,

and it's your book. But then, like, let's come on back and play a major role in this film. I had this later, but do you think this was Apex Mountain for super drunk writers, just getting in fist fights? It's like that Norman Miller era? This is definitely the era.

Also, the director was like, Let's fight. Hunter Thompson. Yeah. Everybody's just like... Wait, but Hemingway, I think, takes that bill. That's true. You go, all right, maybe not.

Hemingway in the Dempsey book, A Flame of Pure Fire, which is arguably my favorite book I've ever read. Roger Con, okay? Dempsey admits that, like, hanging out with Hemingway, he was like, that guy was dangerous because he actually thought he could maybe take me. And I wouldn't kill him.

He's like, but Hemingway would get shit-faced and be like, you know, I'm not sure or whatever. And he's like, he scared me because I was afraid I might actually have to really fuck them up. Yeah. That was like me and my son when my son was like 10 when he was side-eyeing me.

I can take you, dad. Now he could take me. Yeah, now and now he was side-hying you from the job. But you just gouged his eyes out, right? I don't even know if I could do that anymore. He came back the other day and was talking about how he did something for 285 pounds for eight reps. And I was like, I got to find out from Rissolo.

He said, no, no, don't tell Rissolo anything yet. Give me like one more month. that's the thing about him is he thinks he's going to catch me in like six months. So he doesn't want to tell me any of his stats. The only thing I'm worried about with Ben is the heavy back stuff. Like I keep getting these deadlift numbers and I'm like it's impressive. Yeah. I personally think when you're really young, I don't.

People will tell me I'm wrong. I just think, you know, don't be in a rush to have. I think you might need to do a little FaceTime with him. He's not going to turn into T-Mack. He's going to be rolling it out on the floor pretty soon. Don't want that. So we talked about the cost-cutting stuff. stuff where this was the story about when Reynolds got hurt where he said,

how did it look? And he woke up at his bedside with the director next time. He's like how it looked. And Foreman said it looked like a dummy falling over a waterfall, which was the joke because they kept throwing the dummy over the waterfall. But he did get hurt. And then Beatty said after he almost drowned, I thought I was going to drown him.

The first thought was, how will John finish the film without me? And my second thought was, I bet the bastard will find a way. No insurance for any of the actors. So there was some... This is great. There was some confusion about who came up with squeal like a pig.

Who's the author of that phrase? Was it Jimmy Carter? Ned Beatty said he thought of it. While they're improvising. He's like, can you guys give me credit for something? He's like, Jesus Christ. You were all right there. I came up with this.

I was not ready for this. Borman said one of the crew guys came up with it and then Borman said that he decided it so he says two different versions of Borman coming up with who did it and nobody really there's no resolution but we do know that Reynolds said

it was so uncomfortable watching them film the scene and went out for so long that Reynolds said I asked John Borman the director why did you let it go that long and Borman said I wanted to take it as far I couldn't with the audience and I figured you'd run in when it got too far.

So Bert Reynolds basically stopped it from continuing. There was plenty of stuff on researching this where Borman did not seem like the greatest hang. No. No.

He seemed like a deranged maniac. But like was treating the locals like shit too? Like really, you know, just kind of to the theme of the movie. Like I'm better than these people with his background. So I don't know that he was making a ton of friends. They like set up shop in this area in Georgia.

They like rented out of country club. They were all like, living it up that summer. Reynolds is driving in Atlanta coming back at like four in the morning with cheerleaders. And meanwhile, Borman's like, yeah, yeah,

like it's going to be a really respectful depiction of the area. And then it was like, let's get Billy in here. Dueling banjos, they didn't get permission and ended up in a whole copyright infringement case, which is you can go read about it if you want to.

Chris, I'm just going to read this to you and you tell me what you think. Borman was given a gold record for the dueling banjos hit single that was later stolen from his house by the Dublin gangster Martin Cahill. Love it. That's an actual...

That sentence alone is a TV. That's season one. Well, Borman recreated this scene in the general, 1998, his biographical film about Cahill. Yeah. There you go. Jimmy Carter, this movie caused him to establish a whole state film commission

because he was the governor back then. Him and Bert Reynolds were like, let's shoot this in Georgia. Him and Burr Reynolds. And by... by the next decade, they were like one of the top five places to film a movie and made a ton of money from it.

It's still that way, isn't it? With the tax breaks? It was all good. I got a couple more little half-ass. First of all, half-ass literary research. In the book, Ed is a graphic designer. Lewis is a landlord, and Drew is a soft drink executive.

What about Bobby? Bobby is a... Bobby's an insurance executive. Right. And in the book, after this all happens, Bobby moves to Hawaii. Oh. He's like, you know what?

I don't think I'm going to hang out. Smart. Selling him policies. Be like, hey, aren't you the fella? So, what happened about me? He's gone. Also in the book, sort of the zag to the happy ending Hawaii,

is apparently in the book, there's a Voight's character wants to kill Bobby. But he's talking. He's having like homicidal fantasies about it. Yeah, he's so disgusted with him that he wants to kill him towards the end of them trying to get out of there. Yeah. But maybe that one moment is the conflict as they're at the hospital. Right, right, when they're shoving each other.

Yeah, so it felt like when I read about it and gone back and was like, oh, that's ignored. But I thought that was kind of important that there was one moment where they were upset with each other post being safe. And then Atlanta Magazine did an oral history about the making of the movie? the first time they were blocking the, you get a pretty mouth scene. I guess the mountain man tried, I'm going to lay a big long dick right in your mouth on for size, and everybody cracked up.

It just didn't fit, you know, like it just worked. Good job anyway. And another point, James Dickie took John Borman aside and said, never repeat this. I'm going to tell you something. I've never told anyone this. Everything in the book happened to me. And then John Borman was like, and then I saw him in a canoe and he capsized immediately and knew he was full of shit.

Oh, man. Those 70s writers. Should we introduce a new category that says, would this movie be better if somebody had said, I'm going to lay a big long day? But to sit there on set and go, by the way, oh, this is real. There could be a category for, would John Borman say this? Oh no, excuse me, Dickie. Dickie would have said it to him. James Dickie sounds like he should have been a documentary.

Apex Mountain. I think for the four actors, no. Reynolds, but none of them. No, I mean, Beatty's... Networks, you know. Academy Award nomination for network. Deep Georgia. I don't know.

Canoeing, hillbillies. Canoing's up there. I mean, it's this river wild. Banjos. Banjos, definitely. This or Steve Martin. Or O Brother, we are art, though. You know?

Horrifically disturbing male rape scenes. Yes. Exposed femurs. Exposed femurs. Sleeveless scuba vests? Definitely. Dual citizen hillbillies. What would your reaction have been

if I had just walked in with a sleeveless scuba vest? I was trying to find one for this. I'm not kidding. But then I was going to have to cut up a wetsuit. And I was like, I don't think this is worth it. Best racehorse name. I could give you canoe trip.

I could give you deliverance, which really sounds like a. Kentucky Derby winner. And here comes deliverance. Deliverance is great. Yeah, that's a good one. Squeer like a pig. Maybe doesn't work as well.

Pickin'nits. Why did they spend so much time arguing what to do with the dead body? Like, if we ever have to deal with the dead body, let's just get fucking rid of the dead body and bury it and get the hell out of that. Well, I mean, they're like, so we just go, we try to find the cops. We go report it to the highway patrol. Like, they tried to walk the line, and then they're just like, this is what's going to happen. The jury thing was actually. really important.

They're in the middle of nowhere. Like, they're going to get killed. You got to get the fuck out of there. I don't know. I wouldn't have spent that much time. I wouldn't have thrown away the weapons. I would have dragged the body towards the water, grabbed all the weapons,

and then be like, we can talk out here in the open. And figure this out. Although, you might have been more exposed. Why did Voight climb the cliff? Like, if you really had to say, why is this happening? I think because they were, I think the idea is that they're pretty sure someone from above is shot Drew. So Voight's going to go up and look to see.

because this guy's just going to pick them off one by one otherwise. Pretty risky plan. I actually thought that made sense. Because they keep, I think they sell that well. Yeah. I'm not telling you it's safe. This guy 10 minutes ago was shaking when he was like trying to shoot a deer. Now he's going to climb a cliff.

But that's why Lewis has a broken leg. I mean, if Lewis doesn't have the broken leg, then none of this happens because Lewis would have gone up there. Yeah. So like this is the forcing, you know. But why not just keep going down the river? You're faster than any person on foot. Just keep going on. Well, the canoes are bob.

it up by then, right? One of them isn't. One of them isn't. Just keep going. You think if you're faster in a canoe than I got to shoot in a bullet? Well, I mean, he's got to miss once and then he's got to reload.

You're moving... I don't know. I don't think it's a musket. He had more than one bullet. The climbing the cliff thing would not have been on my list. Yeah, okay. With no equipment.

The thing was straight up. The two issues that I have, like that one's not even in the same group for me. Like, I can understand from a movie part of it. Like, he's up there. We kind of have this angle where we're protected. But if we go out with the canoes,

Yeah, I mean, you're right. Is it likely that he's starting to pick you off? Yeah, I'm coming up of the different plan. Yeah, that's fine. Any other picking nets? You had a couple, right? Really, the big one was the Griner Brothers plan. Just like, we're just going to toss the keys to these two guys who were going to mercilessly insult after he's slammed his finger on an anvil and just be like, you're just, here's 30 bucks, asshole, drive my car.

Yeah, not great. What do you have anything? There's a lot of mysteries around the canoes from this. On one of the first crash scenes, you can see that it's already. pretty broken in half. It breaks perfectly. Like somebody used a T-square on it, which, again, whatever, special effects, 1972. I'm not going to be a dick about it. But there was a dive bar in Winooski, Vermont that had one of the canoes from the movie hanging behind the bar. And so it wasn't one of our main hangs.

Us going to Winooski was like something had to have gone off the rails. Yeah. Yeah. A town over. But guys were constantly trying to figure out, like, can we buy it? You know, we buy this and whatever. A couple of my friends still own bars up there. So when they were like, well, this place is going to business. But then there was like, as you got a little bit older, you're like, are we sure? I was going to say, why don't we? Did you guys get like a letter of certification?

Yeah. It was, there were multiple canoes used because then I did start researching it all because then one sold for like 18 grand, apparently not that long ago here in L.A. So 12 years ago, 10, 12 years ago, something like that. Somebody bought one of them. I thought like, man, 18 grand. Like, if you're in the industry, that's fucking, like, done and done. Because now they've commoditized a lot of these movie props stuff.

It would be great. Yeah, right. Shoshang Bible's gone for $450. A bar where, like, all the memorabilia at the bar is just like, yeah, that's a James Dean's T-shirt from Rebel Without a Cause. He's ketchup on it. That would be actually kind of a funny way to like, heck you are. He's making stuff about it.

All be wrong. Yeah. Yeah, that's Luke's lightsaber. Yeah, that's the suitcase. It's pretty cool. She's got it Tearsito band to me That's the suitcase for

Pulvation Now don't look inside It doesn't light up anymore Sequel prequel prestige TV All Blackcast are untouchable What would you go for here? You've been on a heater with All Blackcast All Blackcast for this is incredible

I think Prestige TV would be pretty good though If we're really down there for I don't know. If it turns out of the yellow jackets. I had a pitch today, and you're just going to always can tell when it's like, all right, you're just going to season three me, right? Yeah, true. Yeah, what is the season?

Bobby's in Hawaii, season three? We like the script. We like where it got, but what's season three? Yeah. What the fuck is season three of this? Yeah, you're right. All right. Although prison break, they started, they just weren't in another prison.

Prison break is a classic. They didn't think about season three. No, because honestly, season one's really good. Yeah, it is. Good watch for like TV at that time. And then it was so successful, it was like, anyway, we can get a couple more seasons out of you. Yeah.

It's like I had really only mapped it out for. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Catherine, Steve Boucher, Steve Buchevee, Sam Jackson, J.T. Welsh, or Philip Bakerham. I was trying to think of where to put Wayne here. Yeah. And I think if he played the sheriff and he goes up to Ned Beatty, he goes, you know what, big man, you're going to jail a long fucking time. Get him the fuck out.

out of here. But that would require them to get arrested. Wayne would have fit in perfectly. I would say arguably out of any movie we've done, Wayne Jenkins fits in nicely. You could cast him in any of the rules. And it all makes sense. He easily could have been Lewis.

He could have been one of the Griner brothers. Oh, I get it. Yeah, I'll drive your fucking Jeep down there. You don't have to worry about it. He would have been a good Lewis. My legs fucking sideways. But just get me in the fucking canoe. Is that the right hillbilly?

I don't fucking care. I'm about I had it with this trip. Wayne. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Who gets it, Chris? I guess Bert. I'm a Gorman.

I think it's this is... You like the direction? Well, because I don't know. I'd like Bert more in Longest Yard. If I had to rank my 70s, Bert, I think Longest Yard. Did you see any behind the scenes photos from this? I did not. This is back when Peck and Paul, Werner Herzog, M. Coppola,

they're just like, yeah, I'm standing in the middle of a river with a camera. Like, this is how we're making this movie. It's like, it's not safe for them either. It's pretty amazing. Probably unanswerable questions. We covered the Drew, was he actually shot in the river? All right, so before we go here and get up, was he shot on the river, Ryan? Yes or no?

Got to go to a break. Is it shot in the river? Yes or no? He is not shot. The director says he could no longer go on. So we have proof. Was he shot in the river, Chris Ryan? I'm going to say that it ultimately doesn't matter.

When we come back, I'm going to tell you why Aaron Rogers is going to be a jet. It's right after this. Hey, speaking of that. Possibly an answer for question? Yeah. What football game were they trying to get back for? Georgia. Yeah.

So I think they leave on a Friday spend. Friday night and they're supposed to spend so I thought it was an NFL game and I was thinking maybe it was Niners Falcons at Fulton County to kick off to the 71 NFL season because if it's you know comes out in 72 so you're thinking it's set like around 7071

or whatever Norm Van Brockland GM for the Falcons back then Jesus you did some research I did I love I love it when they get a game with the foliage great do we have hillbilly horror movies without this movie I think there's something in the air out there. Texas chainsaw massacre happens regardless of this. Does Texas chainsaw massacre happen regardless of this movie? I think so.

Okay. So that's going to jumpstart anyway, probably. Outside is scary, man. You have any in answerables? No, I already covered it with the, because I don't know that the jury duty thing is unanswerable or not. I just don't see that constituency being super locked into their schedule. agree. Best double feature choice. I'm going Texas

Chainsaw Massacre. Great call. Yeah. Dead call. Keep me in the 70s? Deadcom's good. Oh, Deadcom's a good one. I have River Wild. Indian Red Zawantene Award for what happened the next day. We covered what's what happens with Bobby. But it is kind of funny to imagine if like they're just like, yeah, I won't be seeing you for a while, Bobby. And then like the next day literally, they both have Falcons tickets in the same block. Oh shit. Hey! How you doing?

I forgot it. It was Falcon Saints. Like a life advice email. So we did this canoe trip and the guy Venmoed me request for the tickets. And I felt like it's pretty much understood. My name's Ed. I'm a graphic designer, 6-1. Lose a few pounds. Me and my buds went on a canoe trip.

Do I still need to pay for my ticket? What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I mean, it sounds like the canoe. No, we want. What Reynolds is? vest. Oh my god, that's great. That's better. If we ever do a live rewatchables, we should all three of us

The vest is great. You're right. The vest. Game Warren Vest from Reynolds. What is the Best Life Lesson, the Coach Finstock Award? What is it for you, Riscilla? Never get out of the boat? Yeah, I mean. I'm just, I'm out on canoe trips. That's my life lesson.

Had you ever had, like, has Ben or Zoe ever been on one? Have they ever expressed any interest on like a Simmons family camping trip. No. No, they don't like him enough. It's a lot of time with me. Can't even get the... You know the water is the lesson in this.

Know the water. Yeah. I could see you also just like with the contacts and stuff. I've covered this. In 1883, I'm like one of the first dead people. Yeah. Just fumbling around from my glasses. I'm just getting shot.

Done. 1923. Isn't that a new Yellowstone? Yeah. Jump off. Yeah. Who won the movie for? you, Chris Ryan.

Bert. Just that star power in the first half of the movie. I think Bert, too. Yeah, because he goes down in such flames that it still feels wrong. Not to give you the Yellowstone answer.

Montana won the movie. I love the opening credit scene and the way they shoot the landscapes and the gravel pit. So you go in Georgia. And then the town. Because remember, the whole idea of this is they're making this trip because the town is going to be

flooded and the taxi driver's like best damn thing that ever happened that town looks so shitty yeah when they're going to the hospital that and the church is on the like the truck and stuff and like i feel like there's this town in vermont that reminded me of like what the hell's the layout of this thing like what what was the plan here and then it was kind of too late and it just sort of evolved into whatever it became and those towns are like scary they're depressing and And, you know, look, it's Bert. It's Bert. So I'm just forcing the conversation here a little bit, like to pick the landscapes.

But to keep that real, to keep it very authentic, that was a great job. I think Bert takes a lot of what he does in the first 45 minutes in this movie and brings it to the longest year. Well, it's also kind of cool because it's pre-stardom. It's the birth of Bert. Yeah. But he's, it's like because he's not yet Bert Reynolds, Burr-Rounds would never let himself get taken out of a movie

midway through after this. He would be like, no, I'm fucking... We're combining Ed and Lewis so that Lewis wins the day and it goes full ramble on these guys. But the idea of this guy who's like, the whole movie is like, I'm a badass, I got the diver watch, I know how to shoot

the rapids, and he breaks his leg on the second set of rapids and is like just out of commission and pretty much unconscious for the rest of the movie. It's pretty cool. Bert really was a unicorn. Like, the guy played college, football, he became such a big star that he could just be in movies where all I needed was a car and that was the movie. That's like the last level of A plus list. Yeah, like, was that our fault or was he just that good at it?

I think Clint Eastwood was like that too. He made those movies where he just traveled around the orangutan. He just had street fights. He also had all the westerns though. And he's so good in those. I was on a recent Clint Eastwood kick. So I kind of go back, like, these are good, good fucking movies. I don't have a problem with anyone.

But can we do, are we almost done? Because you asked me a question as we were talking about doing this that I think is like really interesting. What is it? I forget. Oh, would this be made now? Well, would it be made now and does an A-list or take Ned Beatty's role? It's probably some character actor.

We don't even know who it is. I mean, Ned Beatty was his first movie. Right? I don't know if it gets made now. I don't think he gets made now either. I think... But what does that mean? I just don't think...

By the way, if it got made now, it would not be the fourth biggest movie of 2000. It also doesn't feel like movies are really the place where taboos get pushed. So, like, I think that that was especially true in the late 60s in the early 70s where they were like, this is, like, just going back to the Exorcist,

shit that happened to the Exorcist, you're just like, I can't believe I'm watching this. And we've never seen it since. They never have, like, kids doing what they do in the Exorcist. We had it again in the 90s. I think a couple of the movies push the envelope. Yeah, maybe, but that's pretty graphic in The Exorcist. Like, I think that they were almost like flying without a net.

Like, they didn't know what they were doing. Yeah, she tries to fuck herself with the cross and she's like a 12-year-old girl. And so when you think about, like, the stuff that was in the biggest movies of that time period, it just really feels like that was where, like, the most transgressive popular art was happening. Well, it makes sense that Deep Throat was the fifth biggest movie that year. Yeah. It was like, everybody's just pushing the envelope. Right.

Is it the most deviant time then? Yeah. I think it was. I mean, imagine going to see, like, Craig, what did you do last night? Liz and I went to see Deep Throat. Theater was packed. That doesn't make any sense, though. It's fucking crazy.

Was there any other adult films that were doing those kind of box office? That was the first one, right? There was a couple after, but Deep Throat was kind of the Star Wars of porn. I don't know what it is. I mean, like, there's been books written about that time period. Maybe there was a little bit less, like, corporate oversight. Maybe the executives were younger and wanted to be cooler, and they were just like, let's just take a shot at this.

a big push the envelope time. And then it heads into the mid-70s with some of those movies like Death Wish where it's like the decay of the cities. But even like the prestigious movies like Chinatown. You think about like what

happens in Chinatown. You're like, holy shit. Can you imagine like that being in a film now? You just pitched that today, Rasello for your TV show. Chinatown 3? Yeah. It's your Chinatown season 3.

This grandkids. I'm going to tell you, Jack. I love it. That Robert Evans book about Chinatown and trying to get it made. And then Matthew Good doing him in the offer where

honestly I cannot believe he wasn't nominated for anything for best supporting in television. He is so good in that show in the offer and when he's like they actually flirt with the Chinatown storyline in it too and he's just like, it's about water in Los Angeles. And he's like, pass. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, that's before, obviously I was born, but you go back, you're like, maybe the envelope was pushed so far because they were, I don't know, hey, we were allowed to. Like, you're talking about flying with that, and that is really interesting, because I'm thinking, like, well, what happens?

Like, does it perhaps, does a movie like this get made and none of us care anymore? Does no one even attempt to? People would think it was a derivative of another movie. I mean, this is why Paul Planet came out, and it was so great. It was so, you know, so awesome for so many different reasons, but also push the envelope fucking hard. Like, Umathuram in the needle in the chest and just had a couple, oh my God, I can't believe they did that.

Yeah, I think also like there's a way in which this movie is told specifically where it's like, it starts there on the river, it ends when they leave the river. There's no like, what was the trauma? How did you like kind of deal with that afterwards? And there's not really a lot of stuff before that where you're like, you know, you get to see Ed's wife. But it doesn't really like deliberate on that stuff a lot. really almost like an adventure story. Yeah. I don't know. Craig, what you think?

Of all the rewatchables we've ever done, a word of advice to anyone who hasn't seen this movie, this is not a movie to watch with your girlfriend and future mother-in-law. Kind of like the roller coaster scene in fear. That's right. We went 15 minutes in. My future mother-in-law, I was like, oh, I remember deliverance, throw it on. And I was like, I don't know. Maybe it's been a while since you've seen it. So luckily, we aborted that before.

anything got dicey. But I'm going on my bachelor party trip in May. Canoan? We are going canoeing. No. Oh my God. You waited until like minute 80 to save us? Wow.

Where? Do you have a guitarist? Ben to Oregon. We're going down the Deshutes River. Just for a day. We got a cabin. It's going to be much more, you know. Ben's nice.

Ben's pretty pretty. Yeah. They've taken care of that. Maybe we'll get some vests. See if we can work that out. You got to wear the Reynolds vest. Yeah. But do you like this movie?

What did you think about it? No one's going to make the joke. What? Go ahead. Yeah, I like this movie. I think the problem with a lot of movies like this for people like me who haven't seen it is the buildup. Yeah. And like all of the circumstance around it made me think that the entire movie was like them getting hunted by Mountain Men. Yeah.

I didn't know it was just like one real scene. Then they kind of just leave. And the rest of the movie is really quite awkwardly paced and slow. And it's just like them kind of dealing with what happened. and that's pretty much the whole movie. Like, I felt like there was even no real climax of this movie. Yeah. It just kind of just continues and then ends.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm with you. I didn't like it nearly as much as when I first saw it. Well, I don't know if I would say that. I just think it's, it's just paced very awkwardly and differently than I think movies would be now. Oh, yeah.

You know? Yeah. They would make you, they'd be like, you need other stuff from the event to the cliff. You're right. The guys would be hunted. there would have been three more mountain men total coming after

yeah I was surprised that it never came back I thought like oh oh this is the beginning when's round two and it just and it was kind of and we should redo this movie with Gerard Butler and Liam Neeson and have it just be two guys

versus like a thousand mountain men river I mean who's drawn straws on that yeah there's a third guy doesn't end up as well for his dad no old Danny Jr. Paul Dano

but Paul Dano lives Yeah. But I love Paul Dana. Yeah. I mean, Dano in something. Wait, so you wanted to do this and that, then you watched it again? You were like, eh? Yeah.

You gave me a, what, like six? He gave me, like, Bill hit me up like once every six, which is, I like the arrangement. Like, okay. It's football season. I don't want to bother you. No, and I appreciate it because I don't want to be bothered. And you were like, okay, we've got one and you gave me. Well, originally you were like, it's time.

We're going to do fear. And I was like, I don't know if we can do fear. Yeah. I don't know if we can do the fear podcast the way. want to do the Fear Podcast where you have to make fun of all these absurdities while also dancing around

how fucked up that whole story is. It's almost too fucked up now. It's too fucked up. And then so Bill's like, well, how about deliverance? No, I sent you a list of like nine movies.

Yeah. What were some of the contenders? Let me look up. There's also this funny thing where it's like there's literally hundreds of movies with one word titles that are eligible,

but I think you had a very specific idea. All right, here's what I gave Rosillo. Rudy? Mm-hmm. slap shot, deliverance, gravity, and platoon. Yeah, I picked deliverance.

Do you like any of those other movies? I thought for sure you were going to pick Rudy. Yeah, I can't believe. And that we were just going to make fun of Rudy for two hours. Okay, because I thought you thought I loved it. No, but Rudy is rewatchable. It is. As annoying as it is and how annoying as Rudy is,

it's still a rewatchable movie. It's just a goofy movie. I could have done Slapshot because after the Clint Eastwood thing, I was on a big Robert Redford kick and I, or excuse me, I'm Paul Newman kick. Yeah. Yeah. So I could have done slap shot. I didn't really have interest in gravity at all. How was that already in the mix?

Is that even a rewatchable? Listen, there's way less one word movies than you think. It was surprising. Well, it basically, this all pivoted from us talking about doing fear and I think I talked you out of doing fear, which I've only wanted to do now for five years. We might have to do like a private rewatchable for fear. Yeah, just for like,

yeah, Patreon for like a hundred years. people. It's kind of weird about the execution of these that when you think about it, you're like, I'm not pro any of this stuff. Right. Just mode to make the good podcast. Right. I want to talk about it because, like, Mark Wahlberg's character is a horrible, horrible

fucking person. But the movies also named Fia. Okay? So like, we're going to make fun of it that there's two 35-year-olds with an apartment that go to high school. Right. Oh, that reminds me of one of my, I didn't ask one of my unanswerable questions. What is it?

What would this movie be like if it was four guys from Boston? They probably shoot out of it. That whole fucking town in my review. That's it for the rewatchables. And one word movie month. Thank you for so. Thank you, Chris.

This was produced by Craig Horacek. We'll be back with a normal movie next week. Normal, quote unquote. Although it is the definition of a one for us. And we'll see you next week.