The Rewatchables - ‘Die Hard 2’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey are pissing in somebody’s pool, and they’re fresh out of chlorine. They celebrate Bruce Willis as John McClane in ‘Die Hard 2’, also starring William Sadler and Dennis Franz. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So your car today on Carvana Pick up fees may apply. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer podcast Network where you can find the big picture with Sean Fantasy. Red Hot after the Will Smith slap. You just need more world-changing incidents in Hollywood to really get the big picture going, I feel.

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Still cranking it out. And the town with Matt Bellany, our newest Hollywood podcast, if you like the Hollywood stuff, check that idea. It's some good Oscar stuff. Coming up on this podcast, why does this keep happening to us? Die Hard 2 is next. Your wife's plane? They're going to run out of fuel in 90 minutes.

L.A. cop John McLean is back. Whatever I can. Because all you have it, die hard. We are just up to our neck and terrace again, John. On July 4th, die harder. Bruce Willis, Die Hard 2, rated R. All right, we were taping this on a Friday, and a couple days ago, Bruce Willis announced that he was retiring from movies,

and we'll go into some of the reasons in a little bit. But some of the choices that I guess he made, the last few years made more sense when you read the story about some of his health issues, and he was being on the set for two days and ear plugs and all. all these things. It was a really sad story. I think we're all bummed out. So we wanted to pay homage to him with a Bruce Willis movie that we hadn't done today, which we're going to do Die Hard 2 in a second. But Chris, one of your favorite actors, what was your response and reaction when you read that story?

Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a really sad, sad tale about how people, even people that you would imagine have all the resources in the world available to them still can be taken advantage of in this world in that industry. It's kind of stomach turning just because the implications of the LA Times piece just suggest that essentially people were using him as a cash cow

over the last couple of years. I mean, Bruce Wallace has always been a really prolific actor, even going back through his filmography before we were doing this pot. I was like, man, he was averaging like three to four movies a year when he was the biggest star in Hollywood.

So I think that his work ethic was never in question, but obviously doing all these straight-to-streamer VOD action movies and probably working under not ideal conditions. And like you alluded to, getting his lines fed to him through earplugs and kind of not knowing all the time where he was or why he was there.

Just a really sad story, man. What did you think, Sha? Yeah, the same as Chris. I think it's really disappointing. And Chris and I actually were having a conversation, you know, outside of work, we were remarking on how many movies he had made in the past few years and how it wasn't that long ago when he was still top-lining major productions,

you know, like movies like The Expendables or he was in a West Anderson movie 10 years ago or, you know, he had been appearing in big movies and then all of a sudden, circa 2017, 18, 19, he started showing up in movies like precious cargo and hard kill. And I was like, how did this happen? You know, because we didn't think of Bruce Willis

in necessarily the exact same light as Nicholas Cage, but obviously this story gives us a lot of background. And it's just tremendously sad anytime. It sounds like what he's dealing with is a very challenging, you know, cognitive condition. And so, you know, my heart goes out to him and his family. The last, like, big movie that he made was Death Wish in 2018, which was weirdly disappointing. That was a movie that I felt like I've been waiting for them to remake forever because it was such a great idea. It's such a kind of trapped in the 1970s, awesome.

makes me think I'm in the mid-70s when I watch it, but I don't feel like it's aged great in a bunch of different ways. I was waiting for somebody remake it. They remade it. It wasn't great. And then as Sean said, after that, he's just in a ton of stuff. He's making four or five movies a year.

In 2021, he's in seven. And in 2022, he was in six. A couple of them haven't come out yet. But you started seeing him on, I was call it. It used to be the blockbuster box where you'd be like, why is this guy in this? Now it's kind of the VOD box. You go on like Voodoo or Amazon Prime

or the Apple things and you'll see the cover of the movie and it'll be like, wait, why is he in that with like the fourth Baldwin brother? What's going on? Is he low on cash? And now I think it makes a lot more sense. But going back to the heyday of Bruce, it felt like this guy,

I don't know, Chris, do you ever think he was the biggest star in that? the world, it felt like he was in the conversation. But if we're looking at it, like, from a basketball standpoint, I don't know if he was ever like top dog, but he was always like getting MVP votes there for, I would say, like, six, seven years. Yeah, you know what it is is actually like he was so prolific that I feel like his career's a little hard to chart. Because every year that you're like, man, he had that movie, he must have been the biggest star in the world. And then you look and he's got three turkeys right underneath of it. So he's always had a very erratic, very high volume style of

working. I mean, this is not going to ever be like a cruise or somebody who's just like, I pick the best material, I work it to death, I promote the hell out of it. That's my big tent pole for the year or whatever. He was a much different cat. He was a little bit more like, I don't know, like an old Hollywood star who would just like crank him out and he'd have some hits and have some misses. I think the thing that he brought to the movies that I love so much was like, there are a lot of people who are natural action stars and that's what they do. And then they can force comedy on. And, to them. And then there are comedy stars who can try and bulk up and do

some action. He was just perfect at both. He was so good at both the like the thriller action stunt stuff and also the one-liners that ad-libs and the human element of it. He was almost unique in that kind of action star that or movie star that we have

over the like the course of our movie watching lifetimes. My John McClain and Butch I think are my two favorites from him. Who am I missing, Sean? Well, I think one thing that makes him such a cool movie star in addition to what Chris is talking about is the fact that he had great taste and he was willing to take on projects with filmmakers who were maybe not as proven. Obviously, Pulp Fiction, a big reason Pulp Fiction became Pulp Fiction is because a big movie star, Bruce Willis put his stamp on it to play Butch. But, you know, he was in Death Becomes Her, a really zany Robert Zemeckis movie.

You know, he's in 12 Monkeys, this like incredibly complex. Terry Gilliam's sci-fi movie. You know, he would do, he did Breakfast of Champions with Alan Rudolph, you know, a Kurt Vonnegut adaptation. He's in The Sixth Sense with a little known filmmaker named M-Night Shammalon, who he went on to work with all the time. And so, like, I mean, the Sixth Sense,

that's one of his great performances. That's one of the best performances of his career in one of the biggest roles that he ever had. He just was like a pretty daring figure in the world of movies, who also consistently was like, okay, it's now time for me to do Armageddon. You know, it is now time for me to do tears of the sun. You know, like, I have to remember that in my back pocket, I'm one of the biggest action

stars of my generation, but was not afraid to play himself in Ocean's 12 in a hilarious cameo. You know, he did the same thing 30 years before that in the player. He had a great sense of humor about himself, about the industry, about his role as a movie star, while also consistently making really good movies. He's pretty rare. So, Costner and him, I think, both flew pretty close. of the sun with some of their hits and then had some major bombs. And you go back and you look at Bruce,

die hard, you know, becomes a phenomenon. He's also on moonlighting at the same time. And he's just clearly going to be one of the biggest stars we have. Then he's the look who's talking movie between die hard one and two. And then die hard too, which made more money than die hard one, which we'll talk about in a second. But, you know, then he had the bonfire of the vanities, mortal thoughts, which he made with his wife and Hudson Hawk all in a row. And we did Last Boy Scout, which belatedly became, I think, a pretty cult beloved movie. But in the moment, I don't feel like people felt like that was a massive hit. And even striking distance, which has to be in the running for weirdest movie he made. It's like about, what is it, Pittsburgh Coast Guard, Chris?

It's like River Patrol. I think Sarah Jessica Parker's in that. It's an insane movie. It's like It must have been some script that was bouncing around and they were like, we've got Bruce Willis. It's Rowdy Harrington. It's the guy who made Roadhouse too. Right. So then he, Pulp Fiction brings it back and all of a sudden he's one of the coolest actors we have again.

And then he follows that up with North and Color of Night. And Color of Night was a big deal. It was like this heyday of the post-Based Instane 2 can grab into this. I saw that in the theater with my friend Nick Aida. Yeah, you did. Of course I did. But so those two were bombs

And then it's like, oh man, Bruce, he's another funk. And then he comes back again with die hard with vengeance. And it just, that was the way it went. From 88 to 99, he rips off,

if you're just going, the good stuff, die hard, look who's talking, die hard too. Last Boy Scout. He's in the player. Pulp Fiction.

Nobody's fool he's in. Die Hard with a vengeance, 12 Monkeys, fifth element, Armageddon, six cents. That's like a 12-year run with another 20

movies that I haven't mentioned. So I would have him right there with in that Costner, Harrison Ford, Hank's. But I think the difference with Hank's was his batting average. He just, other than Bonfire the Vantage, he just didn't make bad movies there for his entire prime. It seems like he's trying to split the difference between like Clint Easton and Paul Newman in terms of the persona. You know, like charming, handsome guy can do comedy, can do light drama. Also hardcore action star. You know, is most, is really believable with a gun. It's really believable doing stunts. And on top of that, he's, like, really into music and performing. He's married to one of the most famous actresses in Hollywood.

He's just kind of part of the wallpaper, the fabric of my, at least my youth as a Hollywood obsessive, you know, like he was just always, wasn't he a part of Planet Hollywood, too? I feel like he was also in that mix. Yeah. So he was just everywhere. Chris, his 80, you might not remember this, but the two things I remember first from him, he did a Seagram's ad where it was like, Seagrams, golden wine coolers.

And he's on a porch. And there's all these dudes and they're snapping fingers. And it's like just the most charismatic ad you've ever seen. That ad was a big deal. And then he's in Miami Vice. Yeah.

He's in, I think, one of the first seven episodes. It was like seventh or eighth episode, right as the show is- Snitch in that? I can't remember. No. No. He's a wife-abusing arms dealer.

Oh, that's right. That's right. And he is a fucking bad guy. And he's really menacing. and it was definitely one of those where it's like, who's that guy? That's something. And then he got moonlighting, and moonlighting became a phenomenon immediately. I mean, that was like him and Sybil Shepard.

It was the do they have it? Are they doing it in real life? Are they going to do it on the show? Tapped into the Sam Malone Diane Cheer stuff in like this whole kind of cool way. And that's what, you know, by the late 80s, he just had it. But I'm with Chris. Like there's something about him that was just different than all the other people

there's some Paul Newman in there, but then there's also some action star in there, but he was also funny and just likable. You know, it's the one thing that was sort of always cool about him, and I say this now, as I am obviously in my mid-40s, so I appreciate this more. But you see a lot of movie stars today actively trying to like keep the candle of the youth burning, right? Like even Tom Cruise has no business really probably making the movies. He's making like Mission Impossible movies and getting thrown out of planes and stuff.

Chris, settle down. No, I'm not dissing Tom Cruise. Why are you bringing Tom Cruise into this? All right. You look at like say like Chris Pratt, right? Like Chris Pratt, I don't know how old he is. Much better. But like he is definitely still trying to make like buffed action movies. Yeah.

And like be this like matinee idol. Bruce Willis was like 42 when he was 18. You know? Like he he was like the epitome of like middle age cool guy when he was probably like Ben's age. And I just love the fact that like throughout his entire career he was just this like, My hair's thinning. I always wear a white tank top that inevitably gets stained gray by the end of the movie. I smoke constantly.

I make Seagram's ads. But you know what? I'm married to Demi Moore and things are working out pretty well for me. Yeah. And the Demi Moore relationship was a big piece of this with his fame. That was one of the biggest celebrity couples we had. And then there's this weird moment when she becomes as big of a star as he was for. Strip T's, yeah.

I'll take three, four years there. Strip T's. And it starts with the, she's in a few good men. she's not the star. But she got to be in a really, really good movie. And then she's in a couple more. And it's, you know, peaking with disclosure, her and Michael Douglas. And it seemed like she was the biggest actress in the world.

I meant peaking from like a fame standpoint. Oh, not from a quality standpoint. Yeah. I mean, also the recently back in the news, G.I. Jane. You know, that was at that same time. Yeah. It did feel like she was the number one actress. So that was part of the whole thing.

They were this power couple. But we love Bruce. The most important, we love John McLean. We talked about we love the last Boy Scout guy. We haven't done Pulp Fiction yet. We haven't done Die Hard 3 yet. I guess we're going in order. Yeah, maybe we'll go in order.

Die Hard 2, I hadn't seen a while. It's just good to be back with John McLean. I got to say, it was just nice to be in his orbit. Really, the every man thing takes a little bit of a hit in this movie because he has a couple of the craziest stunts. almost like in the fast and furious camp. You know, he parachutes out of a plane and just, I guess just lands in the seat, like just

the parachute. He has a parachute, yeah. Yeah, I know, but just like lands in the snow and then there's another time when he jumps off a plane and, like, he takes some hits, Chris. He does. I still found this more like, quote unquote, realistic than a lot of action movies you see today. Yeah, true. I think the first die hard and the third.

die hard are characterized by their like, this is really baked in. Like the stuff that's happening, it's pretty spectacular. It's huge stunt work. But for the most part, it's like, it can only happen in Nakatomi Plaza or it could only happen if you were driving up the sawmill river parkway or if you were running for a subway or something like that. This is like a little bit more action movie. It was directed by Rennie Harlan and not John McTiernan. And I think Reni Harlan loves just like blowing hot steam everywhere in a cream and then throwing dudes around. But it's, it's, still like when you watch die heart too you're like is this still in the 95th percentile of action movies like i don't know i mean i still think it plays really well to me yeah it's got like six

seven set pieces i know sean this movie resonates for you because not a lot of people know about this but every morning you wake up and you do naked tai chi for what 15 minutes i i said i had seriously been backpocketing a joke at christ's expense with the naked tai chi and you beat me to it i can't believe you fucking beat me to it uh the naked this some of the best naked this is some of the best and Tai Chi we've ever had in an action movie. It's in the top eight. If not for the pandemic, we would all be in the studio right now, recreating that sequence together. Unfortunately, we can't be together right now. I have so many questions about that scene. Did you read in the research? He didn't realize he had to be naked. So the actor William Sadler was like, can we film this

near the end? I want to get an awesome shape. Yeah. So he's training for two months for the naked Tai Chi. Well, William Sadler does remind me, though, this is also in addition to being great early 90s action movie, incredible John McLean, kind of confirming him in the action hero Hall of Fame. It's one of the greatest that guy movies ever made. Ever, I had that rid down. And a lot of people who were that guys who then became just the names. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Yeah. There's like seven of them, but in 1990 were complete. I didn't know who Fred Thompson was in 1990. I was like, oh, that guy. And it was just a slew of those. There's some guys I still don't know the names of. But yeah, look, this came out on July 4th. There was some buzz that they were.

having trouble getting it done. I think they moved the date, but this was, I'm in college at that point. This was like, when is this coming out? It's two years after the original. It is right during the era of

everybody looking at each other and go, let's just run it back. Like lethal weapon, too, like, ah, fuck it, let's just run it back. And this one, like, yeah, people like John McLean, let's run it back. They let him ad lib a lot of the scenes.

Chris, I know when you eventually go into action movies yourself, like, yeah, the ad-libbing is going to be big for you. It's like you'll have the script. You'll have some prompts, things like that, but you want the ability to cook on the set. Yeah, it's me doing new Tai Chi, but also doing a lot of like Judd Apatow improv, you know, just kind of like a lot of jokes while I'm doing

it. And listen, you could feel it in the movie. You could feel like he's just, it's like, all right, Bruce, and this scene, you're just going to climb into that metal hole. Can he just make some jokes? I would be shocked if this, if there was a single scripted word shared between Dennis Franz and Bruce Willis in this movie that was like in a script. Oh, that was another piece of this. This movie kind of starts the Franzisans, Sean. Yeah, I mean, he had been playing cops into Palma movies in the 80s, and it's kind of a riff on that. But then there's no doubt that, NYPD Blue is what, three or four years later. Yeah. So, you know, this sets it up. He's not very

respected in this movie, though, I would say. Unlike his part in NYPD Blue. This guy... You mean, like, people don't talk about Carmine Lorenzo in the same, like, gilded way that they talk about Andy Sipowitz? No, not quite the same. Okay. Great name, though, Carmine Lorenzo. They're like, how can we make this guy really Italian? Carmine? Well, what about a last name to really? About Carmine Lorenzo?

All right, that'll do it. You mentioned directed by Rennie Harlan. This is kind of his breakout. From a, like a big box office standpoint. I think he made Nightmare on Elm Street 4 before this, right? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not counting that way. And he made Ford Fairling.

That's right, same year. Yeah. screenplay was adapted from Walter Wagers, 1987 novel, 58 minutes. You got that one? She had the same plot, differed slightly. Police officer must stop terrorists

who take an airport hostage while his daughter's plane circles overhead. He's 58 minutes to do so before the plane crashes. And then one of the writers of the screenplay, Stephen E. DeSuzza, he admitted, we should mention this too.

Like there's definitely some Iran Contra, kind of, they're just grabbing smoke from that whole scandal and shoehorning into this with Manuel Noriega in real life and in this movie. Esperanza. Esperanza, who resurfaces when? How many years later after this movie, the guy who played Esperanza? Franco Niro? Yeah. Well, he shows up. Another big action movie.

I'm not sure. I mean, he shows up in Django and Chain because he played the original Django in the Italian movies. What are you thinking of? Oh, John Wick? Just a little movie called John Wick Two. Yeah, John Wick, too. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I think he's, he's another one who might have been the same age for the last 38 years. He might just be 59. It's just his age. One of the greatest beards in movie history. Great beard. Great beard. I just can't get there with my beard. So release July 4th, $70 million budget, made $240 million internationally. 117 of that was domestic. I'm going to just give you the top

the top 14, Sean, just so you can get a little movie nerd boner. My favorite, yeah. Home alone, ghost, dances with wolves, pretty woman. That was our top four. Wow. Teenage mutant Ninja Turtles,

Hunter Red October, total recall. Die Hard 2, 8th. Dick Tracy, kindergarten cop, Back to the Future, Part 3, presumed innocent. Days of Thunder, another 48 hours. That was our top 14, Chris.

Did you, I think you accidentally said Hunter Red October, which is actually the name of Sean's Hunter Biden documentary that he's been working on. Sorry, Sean, I made a step on that. I wanted to just update you on one other thing, too, which is, I don't know if you guys know this, but I always have a boner through the entirety of whatever I'm recording this show with you guys. Thanks. By bad.

You know, for like The Goodfellas episode, that was actually quite painful for me. by the time we got to the end. He tapes it to his leg. What's funny about those 14 movies is I'm 100% sure I saw 13 of them in the theater. I think I saw 13 of them like five times in the theater. It's just like that was the day. You would never have a top 14 now where I would say I've seen 13 of those 14 in the theater. Our guy Raj loved this.

Yeah. I was surprised. Did he? I didn't look back at the review. What did you say? Three and a half stars from Rush. Wow. He said, quote, this is terrific entertainment.

He said, this is one of those thrillers like the Indiana Jones series that I categorized as bruised for our movies. Because when the movie's over, your form is black and blue from where your date has grabbed it during the moments of suspense. Yeah, Raj. Wow. It was all in. Siskel had it in his top five or six, too, of the year.

So this was, this movie did exceptionally well and was critically well reviewed, pretty much across the board. Die Hard too. We should start a spin-off pod called Terrific Entertainment. No, it's, this is terrific entertainment. I think I put the this is.

But then Bill would be like in the second month of terrific entertainment, he'd be like, let's do Rachel getting married. Let's bring in divorce and dysfunction. All right, coming up, we are going to do, I wanted to say there's a lot of stuff with the categories, so we're going to do that

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Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. All right, guys, most rewatchable scene. Had some good ones in here. First one I have written out as John fights two guys in a security restricted baggage area. Sure. Vondi Curtis Hall. Yeah, Vondi Curtis Hall.

Really good, you know, I don't know if they do this as well anymore, where they have these fight scene setups with just like these cluttered. big areas with a lot of rooms and things and you can climb on things and you can hide behind things and things are moving and going back and forth. They do it a couple times. Chris, I felt like they really used the airport nicely in this. This is, I was going to say, is this Apex Mountain for airports and movie theaters and movies. You know, it's like I, and also, like, I was actually heartbroken to find out this isn't actually Dulles where they shot it. Because I was like, it's kind of just feels like an East Coast airport at Christmas. But yeah, the baggage

claim really like just back in the wild west where you would just check your bag and you'd be like let's just see what happens you know right things just going around do we know if that's what the baggage claim actually the back the back area actually looks like i think reddy harland took great pains to make sure that baggage claim was depicted in the most uh accurate way possible i see okay good to know i just in the back of my head i always think it's that's what it looks like just from diehardt too i just assume it's like that next one carmine meets mclean They're first seen together. John McLean.

Yeah, yeah, I know who you are. You're the asshole that just broke seven FAA and five District of Columbia regulations run around my airport with a gun shooting at people. What do you call that shit? Self-defense. Oh, what, you think that L.A. badge is going to get you a free lunch or something around here?

Both guys bringing it. I got the fucking Shiner's convention coming. I thought Dennis Farina was going to come. I'm flying in and be like, hey, you're on my corner right now at that accent. I love that this scene sets up one of my favorite things

that could be in an action movie. The hero with the track record, the guy who's already come through on the biggest possible stage and then they'll have the sequel and there's some guy who is just completely unimpressed by the hero. Yeah, we're not at the Nakatomi building anymore, McQueen.

It's like, why are you giving this guy shit? He saved 180 people? Yeah, I read about Jew and People magazine. It's like, where's the animosity coming from? I was thinking about this if we had an example of this in real life. And the closest I could think of was Sully Sullenberger. I was exactly the same. And it's like if he was a passenger on a flight that was going down and he tried to get into the cockpit and the other pilots were like,

we heard about you, Sully. We don't need your help. We're not on the East River, Sullenberger. No bodies of water this time, Sully. Ain't no fucking geese in the engine here, Sully. Now take your seat. They just loved out in the heroes. And at no point does McLean just like take a beat and be like, hey, wait a second.

Well, I guess they didn't have Google back then. There was no way for him to be like, but he was just like, can you call one of your friends and say, hey, who was the guy who saved everyone at the Nakatomi building that time? You're now, I have bad intentions now. Over the course of a year, I've become a bad person. But would John McLean have gotten that famous? Like, they treat him like he's Audie Murphy. You know, they're like, this guy defeated the Nazis.

You know what I mean? Like, would John McLean become a national figure for what he did at Nakatomi Plaza? So, well, today it would be like two weeks of fame or a week of fame. But back then, you know. I had this in unanswerable questions. I actually think he'd become really famous from it. Because remember, this is the late 80s way pre-internet. We talked about Jessica McClure for like six years.

That's the thing. Like Donna Rice and Faye Hill. No, Faye, who was the one? There was a Donna Rice. All the people who were in, Faye Hill, no, now I'm blanking. Who's this? But I don't know.

I'm getting all my ladies and skittles. Mentioning women. But think of the OJ thing, like Cato and Faye Resnick. They were like celebrities for two years. So I don't know. I just feel like John McLean, I think this supposed to be a year later, two years later. Yeah, Leno would still be doing his opening monologue about the Nakatomi Plaza.

He would have done the whole tour. He would have been on The Tonight Show in Letterman. He probably is making a Saturday Live cameo. He's definitely doing commercials. I just don't think he's moving around anonymously in an airport. But what do I know? Anyway, I didn't appreciate Carmine Lorenzo really doubting John McLean. I just would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Also, we have the... Hey, Carmine, let me ask you something. What sets off to... Detectors first. The lead in your ass or the shit in your brains. I think Bruce Adlerd that one. Not sure I totally understand that joke. Yeah.

Me neither. The next one I have is the, I call it paintball shootout. There's just random, scary-looking terrorist-y guys all painting. Everybody's fine with it. Yeah. Including Robert Patrick, the Future Terminator 2. Yeah, the highly elite airport SWAT team doesn't notice a bunch of guys painting. down at the other end of the hall

and why that might be suspicious. Yeah, we have a possible emergency here. Should we study these seven guys randomly painting over there? Nah, it's fine. But that's a really good one. I love seeing Robert Patrick. Also, I like the ramp.

Bruce is trapped. The guns coming at him with the ramp and the guy, instead of just shooting Bruce, does the thing like, I'm going to try to get the gun before you and Bruce's able to shoot him. But good suspense. in that scene.

I liked it. Next one. I guess we have to talk about this now. The plane crash. This is the craziest and most horrifying scene in the history of action movies. And honestly, the reason

we haven't done this on the rewatchables before and the reason I'm kind of conflicted about this movie, in the theater in 1990, this was kind of insane. And they moved on really quick from the 220 people that blew up it exploded because they were intentionally crashed. Three minutes later, they're on to the next thing.

It's an amazing scene to watch, especially given 1990 technology, it really does look like it crashes. They do a good job of making it seem authentic. But, man, that's a fun. I wouldn't call it rewatchable, more like memorable. But, Sean, like, what was going on back then? I mean, post-9-11, you'll never see a scene like this again. I mean, everything about this movie is basically wiped off the slate from,

9-11, like from hanging out in airports on. We can get into that, but yeah. I agree with you on both counts. I mean, there's two plane crashes in this movie. Two, or not plane explodes in mid-air. And for 1990, it's kind of, it's thrilling. I mean, it's truly incredible. But also, you're right, they like, I mean, this is really one of the most violent

super-duper mainstream movies ever made. There are like five shootouts in the first 45 minutes of this movie. There's, and some of it is like kind of half played for laughs. Like in the first scene that you pointed out when he's holding an aerosol spray cannon and it gets shot and blown up but then nothing happens. So it's like it's somewhat sight gags

somewhat like oh John McLean is like back to his old tricks again. And some of it is they crash a British airways plane and 200 people die. And then the story just keeps rolling. And Fred Thompson's like, I need new transmitters. And you're like, what?

What? This would be the most insane national tragedy imaginable. This is the thing that we, I was going to save this for what's age the worst or picking nits, but we got to talk about it now. The plane crashes. It's like, it's not a secret. Everybody knows about it. It's being broadcast on the news.

And everybody at Dulles just has another scotch and hangs out and waits. And it's only until when Dick Thornberg reports from the air that there's terrorists that they're like, I better get out of this airport. But like, if anybody ever was at an airport and a fucking Windsor Air, like, flight crashed. You'd be like, I'm not flying tonight. I'm going home. It's a crazy 10 minutes because we're on the airplane before it crashes and they make it so that it's like douchey British people, which is a really weird choice where it's like, oh, you might not, we're going to crash this plane so we don't really want you to like the people. That's totally an intention.

That's clearly part of it is like, well, they're not Americans, you know? It's really weird. I listen after 9-11 nothing like this scene would ever happen again pre-9-11 it was also insane just for the record 9-11 no 9-11 like this was an insane choice and I remember in the theater on a 50-foot screen just being like wow that wasn't that fun not really entertained right now I think they could have like crashed it without just having it blow up and everybody on board that anyway it's it's certainly a memorable scene I wouldn't call it rewatchable. Next one I have is McRane pushing that, McLean pushing that crate up as the planes coming out. Esparazza is flying over him. I don't know why he just doesn't duck under it, but gets out, he goes and gets Esperanza,

gets overtaken, parachutes out, leading to that great shot, which I think is one of the better action movie shots we've had of Bruce coming at the camera on the parachute. really good stuff really nice and then he's parachuting down and they all have guns

and they're like ah well the fire trucks are coming so I think they're like I guess maybe fire like three shots at them before getting away but I agree he's kind of a sitting duck in the air there I don't know why they just drive away

multiple machine guns that seems really good and then the last one I just have McQueen versus John Amos and and Stewart he blows up he blows up the plane

I have no idea how long this runway was not as long as the runway at the end of Fast and Furious 6, which was three states long. But then we have the guys in the control room like, they can use the fire

for the planes on the land. They used the fucking pharmacy. They can all do that. Let's tell them. They already know. We had a visual on Northeast's landing. We're following the fire trail in as a guy. If they do it, who can we?

Oh, that's really good. I enjoyed all that. What do you have, any other are we watchables I didn't have in there, Chris? I mean,

I just would point out that I really like the news helicopter pilot in that scene when they're going over the airplane, the transport plane. He's like,

I'm crazy, but I'm not that crazy. You know, and that kind of stuff. But you covered all the ones that I have. There's a couple of like, well,

this is a great movie full of scenes in which two guys are like standing over a blueprint and trying to figure out where to go. You know,

there's like literally five or six scenes. with McLean and Art Evans being like, so it would have to be at the old church, you know, like just total late 80s and nonsense action movie sequences. I also like all the William Atherton, Bonnie Bedelia,

like battling on the plane and first class stuff. Yeah. They're all pretty short scenes, but that part of the plot is so weird. And it's like, I still don't totally understand like what their relationship is, like the restraining order and everything.

you know, it's a very convoluted setup. You could make a case you could just have cut that entire section out of the movie and it's probably fine. It all leads to just her tasering him in the airport bathroom. It's a lot of work to get to like a small payoff. The Bill Simmons cut. So like I am in my life and my dreams like there's a rewatchables channel where we make our own cuts of movies. We get all the raw footage. But not for like taking out violence and profanity.

If anything, we add that. But we cut out all plot lines. that we find to be boring after the third rewatch. Yeah. And I really enjoy both, you know, both Atherton and Bedelia, but like it's kind of obvious they shot that in an LA soundstage somewhere, like completely separate from the rest of the movie. And then Baudi Biddelea is like, I have two days.

Can we do all the scenes in two days? Yeah. So I don't know. I just, that stuff is fine, but it does slow the movie down a little bit. I do, I just really enjoy William Atherton and the weird turn that his career took. Because he was like the star of the Sugar Land Express and everybody was like, is this guy Robert Redford? And then he spent the 80s just being an absolute shit heel

and Ghostbusters and Die Hard 2. Walter Peck. Is that his name? Ghostbusters. Really didn't turn out for him. If we have that rewatchables channel where we can re-edit movies for rewatchability, that's going to be bad for Bruce Willis's girlfriend and Pulp Fiction.

You won't even see her. It'll just be Bruce going to get his watch. You can have your main channel and then me and Sean will have like the criterion channel of the rewatchable movies where it's just great shots, you know? Just great camera work. Also, not positive.

I would keep Rolla Girl trying to film her Gonzo video with the guy from high school and Bert Reynolds. What is happening? What is going on here? I just, I'm not sure I would keep that. That scene disturbs me. I don't like seeing Roller Girl stomp the guy from high school. It's upsetting. It's important to the movie.

Also, I'm going to have a third spin-off channel called the Maria de Maderos channel, and it's just more, it's all cut sequences from Pulp Fiction of her great work. quit quitting doing director's commentary on all the choices that Maria made. Come on, you can't just ram it in there. That's roller girl. That seems horrible. Also, how does the donut shop have that much money? I may or man out of just watched the last hour.

How does the donut shop have $40,000 in it? Don't give it away. We don't have it done it. We have literally had this conversation off mic like 12 times about the donut shop. I think I figured out a way to do boogie nights. What are you talking about? It's too big for one pod. I think we have to split it up

into the 70s and the 80s. And part one is the 70s. Little Bill kills himself and then part two is the 80s and that's the second pod. That's going to be a really uplifting way to end part one. Yeah, it was interesting watching that

after the Will Smith Oscars. Watching Bokey Knights? No, the Little Bill part where he just kind of snaps. Oh, yeah. I was thinking like, this is like a 15th cousin of the Will Smith slap, little bill, just like, I'm just, that's it,

I'm breaking from reality right now. All right, end of tangent. What's age the best? End of tangent. What's age the best? You know, naked Tai Chi. More importantly, you know, it's a great way to establish

just case you were worried about whether this is a good guy or a bad guy, this is going to be a bad guy. guy. Naked Tai Chi, bad guy. So it wasn't him crashing a jetliner. It was his naked Tai Chi. I knew from 20 seconds, look on his

face, naked Tai Chi. I'm like, okay, here's our bad guy. Naked Tai Chi guy. We got to find a way to take naked Tai Chi back. Get it back on the side of good. How do we do that? I'm sure there's a website. All right. Sean mentioned the bordering on a that guy record for people who then really

kind of grew out of being that guys, including Fred Thompson, William Sadler, who I think is William Sadler, but, you know, he's in Shawshank. Vande Curtis Hall definitely became that. I think maybe ER? No, was he on ER? He was on one of those 90s TV shows. Was he on Chicago Hope? Chicago Hope. That's what it was. Yeah, yeah. Leguizamo, I'm sorry, was that guy for a little while there, and then eventually became John Leguizamo, but I didn't know what that guy's name was. In 1990, for sure. And then Chris's guy, Colmini, the pilot of British Airways.

That was another that guy. And then there's that guy who's still a that guy, that guy from Eight Men Out, who's one of the bad guys. Are you talking about Don Harvey? Don Harvey? He was one of the bad guys in Eight Men Out, and he's just one of those guys.

Don Harvey never knew what his name was. Is like scary or William Forsyth? And that's really saying something, because William Forsyth is pretty scary. But Don Harvey is like, like you can't get foresight. He's like sociopath, William Forsyth. And then I got to be honest, Franz was that guy in 1989, 1990. He was. Yeah. At that point, he was in Dress to Kill, blowout, body double, the three to Palma movies. He's really good in all of them,

especially Blowout. And then he's from Hill Street Blues. He's kind of like that guy from Hill Street Blues. I don't even know if I knew it was Dennis Franz. He made a show called Beverly Hills Buntz. That was one of the legendary bombs of the 80s for TV. And, yeah. There's more, I mean, I feel like the veto the cop at the beginning. Yeah. Robert Costanzo, he's a that guy. He's in total recall too, right?

Sheila McCarthy, the news reporter. She's a that gal. Like, there. And Art Evans became a that guy from this movie. Yeah. Because I never knew his name, but I always knew him as this guy from die of her too. Who's Marvin, the janitor? Isn't he that guy?

Yeah, he's, he's Martin, the janitor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's been a ton of stuff over the years. Morewood's age the best. One of my favorite action movie lines anyone can say, I taught him everything he knows. I like when that guy's in the movie,

and they drop that. When Chris goes rogue and Chris becomes a terrorist in an action movie and they bring me in, like Richard Crenna in First Blood, I'm like, I taught Chris everything he knows. We've been working together since the triangle of Grantland. I know where I thinks. He's going to gravitate toward obscure basketball bloggers.

Philadelphia sports. Wait, in this metaphor... That's how we're going to catch him. You're Richard Krenna and Chris's Rambo in this metaphor? Yeah. Am I a terrorist? I'm a terrorist? The heart and trade, he loses it.

Okay. But in this case, I'm a terrorist who still is blogging. You're blogging... The heart and trade is broken you and you're blogging from underneath the floor at Philly, threatening to blow up game four. At Wells Fargo.

Serious question. And I'm like, I think it's Chris. Am I Dennyhee in this metaphor? 100%. One more of what stage is the best for me other than the ones we've mentioned is the

Colonel Stewart, can we have a few words please. You can have two fucking you. No pictures, you pick old bitch. Unbelievable.

Exchange. He's saying that is he's like walking right past her too. You get to when the ringer's finally back in the office, Sean,

you got to figure out a way to work that into your everyday language. Oh, I'm sure that'll go over great. have five minutes. Any other would say the best for you guys? How does the same shit happen

to the same guy twice? That line. Story of my life. Yeah, but like the self-awareness of the character, which makes the movie more fun. And then that line got sampled on I got a man, the positive K song.

So now every time you hear that song, you hear that line from that movie. You always think a die hard too and I hear that song. Classic, great one. Airports at Christmas, age the best. Really just like love like the chaos,

the misery, the vibe. Everybody's like wearing the parkas and stuff like that. Everybody's just pounding away at Jameson's and waiting to get on the flight. Consequently, it also aged the worst because of the behavior in the airport is completely like changed. So I had that in what's age the worst and what's age the best because it did make me nostalgic for the days when you could just show up at the airport on Christmas Eve and it wasn't going to be the seventh circle of hell.

Light a camel. Yeah. Get completely blitzed before you got in a place. I'm just going to go get a try. triple scotch and wait for my wife. I'm sure she'll be happy to see me. I love that. So his plan is basically, I'm going to pull up to the airport, leave the car at the curb,

go in, light a cigarette, have a giant whiskey, and clock these guys probably doing like some sort of drug deal, and then getting a gunfight at Dulles. Just a normal day. Do we think this is John McLean's first time picking someone up in an airport? Because he doesn't really seem to understand how it works. Also, I mean, this is an action movie trope, but the guy who's in this big, busy situation, but somehow spots the one thing that doesn't kind of add up where they're just, he's just having a scotch and he's looking across the terminal and it's like,

he's watching the Wizards or the Bulls back then. In real life, that guy's just getting slashed because, and he bet like Bulls plus six and he's just staring at the TV in the newspaper. This is pre-Phil Jackson, too, right? 1990, so plus six, that's tough. Yeah, it's MJ's winning in the MVP season. Yeah, MJ's really good that year, though. One more break, and then we're going to do What Stage is the Worst.

All right, what's age the worst? We mentioned the plane crash, but really the What's Age the Worst is the trauma and sadness from the plane that's just incinerated, like 120 passengers, just comes and goes in two and a half minutes. It's really weird. It's a really weird choice. Chris mentioned the lack secured-in airports and airplanes. I had for what's age the worst, it's funny, we were just talking about this, but just

hanging out at the airport waiting for someone, for somebody like producer Craig, that's got to be inconceivable. Nobody does that anymore. You'll be like, yeah, when are you landing? Well, I'll just be in the bar. Like, that would never happen now. Yeah, my dad used to pick me and my mom. When we would come back from Florida at Christmas, from visiting my grandmother,

and my dad would pick us up in Philly, and he would hand us our coats. because he had just been like waiting at the gate. Right. I think he'd been hanging out for a minute. You know what I mean? Like he'd just be like, that would just be like what you did. And then the car was like four minutes away. How many baggage room shootouts do you think you'd gotten into in that time?

I don't know. It's hard. A lot of that stuff has been redacted, you know? I remember my old college roommate, the idiot Chip Kane. He was flying in from Milwaukee for his bachelor party in 94. And me and Jack O. and how, like, all of us, we just went right to the gate.

And when he came off, you know, to just emerging from the airplane, like we were all right there. I don't, can you even do that anymore? No. You have to go through security. You have to get past TSA. Yeah.

But that's where you would see all like the tearful reunions and all that stuff. Yeah. It was emotional. And it was a trope in movies for years because it was always like chasing the girl who was getting on the plane and tracking her down

and the romantic comedy. All that stuff is, all those conventions are gone. Yeah. Yeah. Sad. That's a what's age the worst. Another one's age to

we're smoking sigs indoors, Chris. Remember those days? They used to let us be free. They used to let us spread our wings. Just light up one right from 11 people right next to you. Just lighten it up. You guys smell my cigarette smoke. You guys legitimately, I truly believe this,

should have a spinoff show called the SigPod where you just smoke cigarettes through the whole pod. Talk about whatever you want. I think that would do numbers. Phil and I just had like one four-hour pod where we just smoked a bunch indoors. I've thought about next moves for myself and for all of us and like what's next for us after the ringer

and it's probably a site devoted to movie scenes with cigarette smoking. Is it sponsored by, uh, R.Gar Reynolds? Yeah, that's part of it. We move. Are these, cigarette sponsors not as cool anymore.

We move forward them. No, because we pivot away from Fandul and we go to big tobacco. Right. Big tobacco. It comes back. It swings back. We're right there. We're three years ahead of everybody.

Is this my full-time job bill? Is that what you were saying? Yeah, you're picking out the movies. You're going through your blue-red collection. John, you have to smoke to North Carolina. By the way, I was scouting regarding Henry for the rewatchables because it's one of the worst movies in the last 35 years. Some incredible Harrison Ford smoking in that movie.

Harrison Ford's secretly awful smoker. If you're going for the worst, like the worst A-list actor smokers. The all-time greats. Wilson is one of the best ones. Cruz and Harrison Ford are definitely the, the final four. Because he, remember in the beginning, he's got his hair slick back. It's his high-powered lawyer, and he's just like smoking, but he's doing the thing where

his arms kind of tilted the wrong way, and he's just... But that, I don't know if you know this, but regarding Henry is now a hilarious comedy. Like, not even just a comedy, it's hilarious. You just described it like you flew to Cameroon to see 12-year-old Joel Embed. You're like, I'm scouting regarding Henry. You're like LeBron watching like Benedict Mathuron. or something and be like, I've been on this. People don't realize how important, you know,

we take the, just because we do fucked up family February, doesn't mean there weren't real decisions being made. But yeah, regarding Henry is honestly what... To take this beloved podcast and fly it into the ground like Cole Meenie. Because we do fucking regarding Henry before aliens. Listen, if you go funniest movies of the early 90s, regarding Henry has to be in the conversation at this point. He gets shot in the head, and it makes him a nicer person.

That's the plot of the movie. The lesson is, if you can get shot in the head, you might be salvaged. Maybe that's what John McLean was thinking. Yeah, maybe. Morewood's age the worst. You're not pissing in someone else's pool, are you? Yeah. And I'm fresh out of chlorine.

That's just bad. I don't even know what that means. I'm fresh out of chlorine. You're pissing in someone's pool. Like, last one for me. I don't think that they did a good job cast and the TV reporter. Samantha Coleman? Yeah, I didn't.

They felt like they could have done better. Sheila McCarthy? Should have been Jane Pauley? Who could we have gotten for this? I would have gone, I will have to wait for the recasting couch because I have some ideas. What else for what stage the worst do you guys have? I think generally speaking, the access people seem to have to air traffic control

towers at that era at that time. This is alarming? It seemed problematic. just the idea that John McLean, I assume, armed, could just like waltz into the air traffic control tower and be like, I'm going to start cursing out five or six different people. And then the press gets in behind her. Yeah, and other than that, there's a really, it's not funny. I get, it is actually funny in the regarding Henry way, but like, after those guys,

the SWAT team gets ambushed and like definitively get mowed down by the special forces, dude, by the time, like, they're all dead. And then by the time, like, the next cut is people trying to, like, resuscitate one of the guys with battles. And it's like, this guy has definitively been shot 90 times by a movie. And they're like, clear! Like, trying to save this guy's life. So, yeah. Emergency response service is at Dulles or is aged the worst.

Age the worst than picking nits and unanswerable are all a little tricky on this one because it is in kind of the incoherent action movie category. but particularly the three grenades scene and the way that that scene is cut is bizarre because like their characters literally say before they blow up. Yeah, we've got three grenades. We see not one, not two, not three, not four,

but five grenades go in. I think they say three grenades each. Oh, each. So like they literally threw like seven grenades into the plane. Yes. Okay, that makes a little bit more sense. And then obviously way too much time elapses

before the grenades blow up. That's confusing. The time is interminably long. Casting what ifs. Didn't really have any other than John McTiernan was supposed to direct this film, but he had committed to the hunt for Red October already, and they wanted to make it. But other than that, they just kind of ran it back with...

Do you think it's significantly better with McTiernan? No, I think Rennie Harlan did a good job. I think this is a really good action movie. He just has, like, a slightly different tone. You know, McTiernan takes the material like a little bit more seriously. This movie's like a little goofy and a little big, you know, a little grand. Don't you think for a sequel, that's kind of the way to, they had to do it? Yeah.

Well, here's the, here's the, here's the, here's the question. I mean, this is in some ways, it's, you know what, I'll save it for probably unanswerable questions. All right. Best that guy, okay, the Joey Pants award. We mentioned a bunch of them. I feel like Robert Costanzo is Robert Costanzo. He has to us at least. Like, producer Craig has no idea who he is.

But, you know, he's total recall. He's been in a thousand things and kind of looks like, like, come. for like Mark Boone Jr., who's one of the guys in the Special Forces crew, and he winds up going on to be in Sons of Anarchy and stuff. Yeah. So for me, it's either Don Harvey or Art Evans, and I would like to give them both the award. Okay.

Because I didn't know what either of their names were, but I would recognize them immediately and could name multiple movies with each person and have no idea who they are. Great. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word. This is France. France is like, wow.

I almost wonder if Pacino watch Franz in this movie studying to get ready to play Vincent Hanna. Can you guys think of another movie where someone is so definitively, obviously, not from where the movie is set? So this movie is set in Washington, D.C. He is the most Chicago cop

I've ever seen. Yeah. And he's just like using his Chicago accent and inexplicably is the airport cop at Dulles. Do you think it's like there's a backstop? story. Like, he used to be a Chicago guy, but then he burned out in the big city, so he got this job at Dulles running the airport security. Like, what's the story with his accent? You are in my little pond now, and I am the big fish that runs it. I got international diplomats. You shut the area down. It's that simple. I just shut the area down. And I got everybody from the Shriners Convention to the goddamn Boy Scouts traipsing through here. I got lost kids.

Lost dogs, not now, later. I got international diplomats. I got a fucking reindeer flying in here from the fucking petting zoo. Fucking reindeer! You'd be surprised what I'm making a month. What's a Washington, D.C. accent? Maybe that's why Washington is the focal point of more movies. Got to get house on the line.

Chris, you're in Philly. You don't like Washington, but can you tell if somebody's from the DMV? Yeah. Yeah, I can tell that by the accent, yeah. their inflection? What is it? Well, it's more just like that Baltimore accent that I mean, you can detect. But I think, I don't know if like I know the DC is like obviously full of a lot transplant. So it's hard harder to tell for me.

Deanne Waiters Award. It's a tough one. I got this. Who do you have? The, um, the news TV producer who takes the deepest hit of a cigarette ever and is like, tell the affiliates they have three minutes if they want in. That guy who's just like, we're going live and five. That's pretty good.

I had Amos. I had that too. It's good to see James Evans again. My guy. Well, I'll save it. I'll save it for picking notes. Recasting couch. Definitely, for me, I'm recasting the TV reporter.

I was trying to think of people early 90s-ish. I think maybe they should have gone for like a young up-and-comer. What about Marky Post? Well, if you go, I mean, that's always the answer. If we can get Marky Post. What about Dana Wheeler-Nickleson? She would have been great, too. Sounds like you guys also record this pod with a boner.

I was thinking Sandra Bullock for a young whippersnapper. Oh, sure. A little like 25-year-old trying to work her way up. What year is speed? When did it speak about? 904. So it's like three, four years before. But she did a love potion number nine, yeah.

Love potion number nine was 92, so it's like maybe a year before that. I would have liked to have seen them go for the young whippersnapper, attractive female reporter, who then turns out to be somebody in real life. This movie is a bit unkind to the press, I would say. Yeah, not a fan. Not the most empathetic figures in this movie. Fucking First Amendment rights. Half AserNet Research, this was the first film to use digitally compositive live action footage

with a traditional map painting that had been photographed and scanned in a computer. used for the last scene on the runway. Rainy Strikes again. This was fun. Black and Decker paid to have a cordless drill featured in a Bruce Willis scene. And the scene was cut. So they sued for $150,000.

They sued 20th century Fox. Settled out of court. Black and Decker. Didn't think they'd be coming in the podcast, did you? John Leguizama wrote an autobiography and said that his role in this movie was intended to be much larger until the filmmakers realized how short he was.

Wow. Tough beat. John Amos said there was actual tension between him and Bruce Willisster in the course of filming. And you could feel some of it on screen. He said, quote, let's just say that he will never humiliate me

in public again. You got that, Bruce? John Amos is kind of lit. He's one of my favorite. He's definitely has some, he's almost like an old wrestler. And it's like, Brett Hart will give those interviews where he just torches gold.

Berg for no reason. It's kind of what John Amos does with Hollywood. It's just like, here are my Jimmy Walker thoughts. It's like, that's Jimmy Walker. The film was so close to not being done when it came out that they shipped them to the theaters.

I'd never heard this phrase for as a wet print. A wet print, yeah. Wet print means it was just completed right before the release date. They call it wetprints. Good name for a website. or a band. We should do like a alternative band,

wet prints. A wet pod. You know, like where it's just Let's putt's pod? Let it fly? They're all wet pods, Chris.

They're all wet pods. Apex Mountain. Oh, how many, how many people died in this movie? 300? Because there's like 200 people on the Windsor flight.

The internet said 114, but I don't know how many people do we know were on the British Airways flight. I thought there was like 200 souls were on that flight. It looks like a big jet. Yeah.

imagine there's a lot of people on it. So I have one piece of half-ass internet research. I wanted to just bounce off you guys. And it also comes in the form of a personal announcement. So Esperanza is actually a general in the country of Valverde, which is the same country used, the fictional South American country used in Commando. I had that in Apex Mountain for Valverde, but we can do it now. I just wanted to let you know that I will be leaving the ringer to write a Patrick Radenkeef-esque

non-fiction account of the drug wars in Valverde I love that Joel Silver was like let's just run fucking Valverde back maybe we can do a ringer narrative pod of the history of Valverity and just make up every piece of it it's an incredible idea I love it you me Sean and Shea would listen to it

Valverdei cocaine guns and beaches Kyle Brand is in on this I know he's down Of course he is There's five listeners yeah Kyle Brandt wants to be a WWF wrestler Valverde. It's a flashback. So you Val Venus' brother?

Valvenus's brother, Valverde. All right, so Apex Mountain for Valverdee to me is still Commando. I'll do respect to Valverity and diehardt too, but Commando, we actually go to Valverde. That's true. Bruce Willis for Apex Mountain. Well, this movie makes even more money

than the first one. You can make the case, yeah. I do feel like he's getting anything greenlit after this. Sean's thinking Die Hard One still? I forget what we decided. it in die hard one. That's what I was trying to remember is what we said. That was years ago. He did die hard. Years ago. Um, I mean, he, he does after this movie takes some pretty big risks. Takes a lot of

swings from his accumulated power, right? Because it goes bonfire of the vanities in which he's miscast, but I mean, huge movie before it came out. They shoot horning him in because he's such a big star. Yeah. And Hudson Hawk and Billy Bathgate and last Boy Scout all in 91, plus Mortal Thoughts, which you mentioned. So, he's a show. He's clearly like, he's putting all his chips down immediately after a diehard too. And he probably had a big cut of the whatever the profits were. Billy Batgate actually kind of underrated. I didn't mind it.

Lauren Dean, kind of the Markeravaroni of that one. Yeah, he's way out of his depth. Yeah, among that cast. Tough, big, big gamble on him and I don't think it paid off. Yeah. Snowmobile chases. Well, I think there's probably a couple in reindeer games, right? there's a really good bond one right what's the bond

I'm with you inception has some snowmobile stuff yeah the living daylights there's a great one in the living daylights there's a great one in the living daylights Dennis Franz no

and my PD Blue has to be that for him what's Rennie Harlan's Apex Mountain Sean my favorite is Long Kiss Goodnight that's I think the coolest movie he made but this has got to be his Apex Mountain this is the most successful movie he made right

yeah but I think he might actually be best known for Deep Blue Sea at this point. That's so crazy. I mean, I know people love Deep Blue Sea as like kind of like kind of half a gag, but I don't know. Did you, have you watched Cliffhanger recently? Oh, it's on the list. I was kind of waiting for the 30th anniversary. I love that movie.

It might be this year. Or is it next year? I think it's 93. Yeah. I love Cliffhanger. Cliffhanger is awesome. Was Rennie Harlan Cliffhanger? Yeah.

Yeah. Got to say Lithgow does the Alan Rickman. really as good as Alan Rickman in that movie. Big hit. I mean, Rennie Harlan made huge hit. I mean, Cutthroat Island is kind of the movie that pulled him down. It's been chronicled as like a huge bomb over the years. But he's made some fun action movies.

You know, Chris is a huge Janine Turner guy. Who isn't? Yeah. I'm the reason Northern Exposure isn't on streaming. I've just, I got the rights in an NFT. I won't let them go. I'll tell you what. She is breathtakingly attractive in that movie.

Genean Turner. Like all time looks fantastic. She is in my, that would be a good podcast of why weren't you a bigger star? She would definitely be in the first season. She could have gone, I don't know,

I just don't know why she wasn't a bigger star. I think is she? There was a moment there where you would have, her rookie cards were selling for a lot. I don't know. I'm thinking of someone else. I'm thinking of Anne Archer.

Ann Archer is a good example of that too, though. Why wasn't Ann Archer a bigger star? She's in the dropout right now, and I was trying to figure out who it was while I was watching and I was like, holy cow. Is there anybody who's not in the dropout? A lot of people in the dropout. The dropout is kind of a diehard for me. I love Guy Tori. I don't know why he was in a bigger star. From American History X? Yeah. Yeah, he's good. American History X. That'll be near the tail end of the rewatchables. See our solo pod. Just to break down the pickup basketball scene, the two hand dug by Ed.

Moray Picks Mountain. Oliver Stone Rip-off villains? Because they always said the Stewart in this movie is basically Oliver Stone. I think that was the peak of that. Oliver North.

Oliver North. I'm sorry, not Oliver Stone. It would be even better if he was Oliver Stone. He's like, I want to make a film that tells the truth. You don't know what really happened. Did that plane really crash?

Evil John Amos, 100%. Bruce Willis is old hair before whatever chicanery started with it. I think this was the last wave of when he had like the peninsula at the top. Then it starts, I don't know what happens. By the time we get to Pulp Fiction, there's some... TB12 is what happens.

Yeah. Yeah. No question. So here's the case for Bonnie Bedelia. She's in this and presumed innocent, two of the top 12 movies in 1990. They shoehorn all of her scenes in this because they feel feel like she has to be in it. And everybody liked her.

And I would say this in 1990s as good as it got for Bondi Bidalia. Always had such a crush on her. I don't know. She's great. Sean having a crush on her was the lock of the podcast. Set in an airport movies. It's either this or airplane, right? What about airport?

The movie. Those movies have not aged well. Yeah, they're tough. How much airport is in planes, train? and automobiles. I don't think enough. Okay. I don't think enough.

How about icicle eye stabbings? It's one of the goats. You know, you always hear about that. It's the perfect murder weapon. It's rarely you get to see it used in action, though. So I have yes for icicle eye stabbings, but no for eye stabbings, because I still think single white female,

the heel into the eye is the number one eye stabbing that I can remember. It's funny that McLean gets really grossed out by the icicle eye stabbing thing, but like does so many other. grody face to the human body. I see grossed out by anything. Got to tell you, there's a horror movie in theaters right now called X

that's got a high-level eye-stabbing in it. Oh, really? Okay. I'm going to see that soon. I'm excited for X. Looks good. It looks like it's in my... Getting fingerprints from a corpse. Yeah.

What do you guys think about fax technology picking up the nuances of fingerprint identification in 1990? That seems flawed. Picking Nets. Oh, wait. We got two more apex. mountains. What's here?

Airphones? Public airphone. They don't really have those anymore. Why not? It would be kind of cool. Two, I think we should have the debate as to whether Sadler's fully nude Tai Chi tops Swayze's half-nude Tai Chi in Roadhouse. This is great.

I'm glad I'm here for this. And I would love to know what the onset body oiling regimen was for those guys. Like, was that self-applied? Right. Was that Teamster? Was that like a union job, you know? I just don't know why you wouldn't put underwear on for the Tai Chi in the hotel room. That's the part I don't get.

What is it? What is it about the full nudity? They really had to get the bureau exactly positioned to cut off his package. That's the genius of Rennie Harlan there. That's cinema magic. I feel like Roadhouse, it's more important in Roadhouse personally. Is it if you put on one article of clothing while doing oily Tai Chi, are you then good? but then as soon as you remove all your clothing

you become evil. Well, I assume you have to shower afterwards, right? It's the difference that this is how we know if you have underwear on you might be the good guy that naked is. You're unquestionably the bad guy. Interesting. Picking Nets.

What's the plot of this movie? I said it to Chris right when I got on this bill. I was like, I don't understand this movie at all. So here's what Wikipedia said. You guys really don't understand the plot of this movie? I'm just going to read your Wikipedia said. A plane carrying corrupt foreign military leader General Ramon Esperanza is also headed to Dulles under extradition for using U.S. funds to buy drugs.

Waiting to meet Esperanza's plane is disgraced former Colonel William Stewart and a group of ex-military sympathizers who supported Esperanza's actions. A couple questions. What are they supporting? He's a general in charge of a small country that is using, drug money to like fund his regime. So you have all these domestic terrorists now who are like, I like this guy. At what point is it like, yeah, I'm in.

I'm in on Esperanza. Like, what do I have to do? And it's like, well, here's the third thing you're going to do. You're going to blow up this plane of 210 people because Esperanza is our guy. Like whatever he could have meant versus what the outcome of some of the stuff they do is fucking insane. I strongly agree. I don't understand why they are killing hundreds of people to, I guess, regain custody of this general and return together to Valverde and resume their drug operation? Is that the idea? Evidently, there's just the only, there's only like two guys from

the Department of Justice waiting to meet that plane. Like, this is not something that the United States was obviously taking tremendously seriously, although, weirdly enough, the only thing people are watching on television at Christmas is coverage of Esperanza's extradition on the cable news every time they turn the TV on and another day of Esperanza headlines on. Well, the other piece is they're all on the plane at the end, right before it blows up? And they're like, yeah, we'll be sitting pretty on a blah, blah. And it's like there's the assumption that all this money is waiting for them in Val Verde, because they freed Esperanza. So was somebody paying them to free Esperanza?

and wouldn't these be the most wanted domestic? This would be like Al-Qaeda. I think it's like anti-communist guys who are like, we need this strong general to like stamp out the communist uprising in Valverde. Okay. This is a fake country.

I'm explaining. How do we have an extradition treaty with Valverde given the way that that country is being run by a corrupt general? That's what... Oh, I don't know. I thought, that he was being, I thought he was essentially like kidnapped there. And then I thought that,

I didn't think they were going back to Valverde. I thought they were going to some place that did not have extradition. Because they were like, if he gets to a non-extradition country, we're screwed. Well, the fact that we just spent four minutes trying to figure this out tells me maybe they didn't really fully lay in the plane with this plot. I kind of grasp what's happening in the movie. It's the getaway plan is very cloudy to me. So it's like even it had they. incentives of all these dudes. At one point, evil Stewart looks over to the guy and he's like, now make it minus 200. And the guy's like, all right, cool.

Like he just presses some buttons. All right, cool. I'll kill 210 people. It's pretty crazy. Also, speaking of that, apparently changing the glide slope values, there's a lot of stuff on the internet about this that would not cause the plane to crash. Their aircraft instruments have all these different mechanisms. in place to prevent the plane from being fooled by one person just changing the thing.

So that would never happen in real life in case anyone home was worrying about it. Was Esperanza evil enough for you guys? I mean, Stuart more than makes up for whatever evil Esperanza lacks. I think we could have a conversation, though, about this movie is pretty ridiculous. Is it worse than one in three because it doesn't have an evil guy as a villain as charismatic as Rickman or Jeremy Irons.

I feel like Esperanza, that's a picket for me. I didn't feel like he was charismatic enough for me. I love Frank O'Neerro. I just think it's confusing because they split the baby by giving William Sadler

and Franco Nero the duel and then John Amos comes in and he's evil too and then it's kind of overload on who is really the worst out of all these guys. Yeah. So all these planes are circling because they can't make contact with the airport.

It's Washington, D.C., right? Is there another airport at D.C.? Like 25 minutes away that they could have just been rerouted to and couldn't make contact with that airport? I think they've had like a huge, because of the storm. There's also difficulties because they say national gets... What about Philly? What about Baltimore? Like, you're just going to fly in circles until you crash.

Oh, now you need Philly's help. Would the airport have been busier on Christmas Eve? Was it busy enough for you guys? Isn't that the busiest day of the year? It's Christmas week, right? I think it's the 23rd. Okay. We mentioned why didn't everyone recognize John McLean?

So at the end of the movie, the runway lights up on fire because of the airplane fuel. Holly! According to the internet, the type of fuel for the aircraft would be Jet A fuel. At the temperature in the movie, it would not have caught on fire just by having a lighter thrown out. It actually had gone out. So that was, I don't know if that ruins a movie for you guys. I feel like we're really asking the big questions on this episode. Thank you.

About plausibility. Thank you. We're getting into it. Any other pick of nits, Chris? Yeah, my big thing is like, what was the plan had John McLean not lit their plane on fire? So, like, would they not get shot down by military planes the second they take off? did they really think they were going to be able to fly to the tropics and live happily ever after?

What was sort of the retirement plan for these guys? Oh, I have another one too, which is when John McLean wants to demonstrate to Dennis Franz that those were blanks in the gun, he just unloads a clip inside of a full office of people at Dennis Friends. With people who have guns. And then that's the moment Dennis Franz is like,

boy, fucking McLean, this guy's really talking some sense. He put him over. six times before you actually went over. Why not just be like, hey, see, check it out. This one has blue tape on it, and that's a blank. Here, I'll show you. I'm going to shoot at this plan. Let's safely discharge this weapon, not like,

I have another one. Yeah. How did John Amos get, and his team get assigned to the detail at Dulles if they were the double agents? Was he in charge of determining who would be the people who would go? And why was there only one guy who was not also a double agent who had to have his throat slashed before they executed the mission? shouldn't they have just left that guy at home if he was actually in charge?

Also, red flag, I used to work with this guy, but I don't like him anymore. And they're like, cool, sounds good. Very suspicious. Very suspicious. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show now? Probably in answerable questions. Is this a Christmas movie for you guys? We did this for Die Hard.

We did like a 10-minute argument about it. I still don't think Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Everyone can fuck off. And you don't think Home Alone is a Christmas movie, right? I don't. Yeah. So, so.

So do you think Die Hard 2 is a Christmas movie? I do not. That would be an incredible twist if you were like, this one is and here's why. But you guys don't think this is a Christmas movie, right?

I definitely do. Of course it is. This captures the anxiety of traveling during Christmas. It ends with a Christmas song. You guys are ridiculous. A Christmas movie is like National Lampoon's Christmas vacation

and every single scene What one of fucking Christmas do you need in this movie? for it to be... This movie could have happened on July 3rd. It's like, they literally talk about

how it's Christmas week, like the entire fucking movie. They're shoehorning it in. Why are you so mad about this? It's like you're fighting the whole internet. Christmas movies. What the fuck does that even mean?

That's a tautology. Like, I don't know. What are you talking about? Like Christmas to play a role in the movie beyond just like being shoehorned in because, oh, and then we'll say it's Christmas and then we can have fake snow. Did you look at the feedback

that you, got when you first started proffering this take and you like it and now you're kind of keeping the fire burning so you're like everyone else is wrong and I'm right or do you in your heart of heart of heart do you like this is not Christmas movie in my heart of hearts it's not a Christmas movie and all the all the negative reactions to my takes make me stronger like John bender did this movie invent the recreational taser gun Sean that's I'm glad you went to Sean with this. Have you seen it? Do you remember a taser being used for comedic effect before in a movie? Not before this. I will see this is not Apex Mountain though. Apex Mountain is the

hangover. No, it's the hangover. Yeah. The In the face. That's the best one. Hangover is pretty good though. It is. Yeah, that's tough. Hangover or jackass for Apex Mountain. Any other answerable questions? I feel like we had everything. Most importantly, whatever the plot. was, which I still don't understand. We covered might earlier, which was, would everybody at the airport really be that chilled out after a massive plane crash and just be like, great, when does my flight leave? I feel like that would be massive panic. And then at the end, when everyone's hugging, because people have been saved, I still feel

like it's a little more somber. Yeah. It's not Dennis Fran's being like, hey, McLean, you got this fucking parking ticket. Yeah, I'm ripping it up. I want to ask you about the parking ticket, actually. So the movie opens with him His car being towed away Yeah

But what did he do So he parked the car And he got out of the car Yeah he just left his car At the airport To go to the bar But then could he see the car From the bar?

I think why did he come back outside? I think it's like Because she's like delayed And then she calls And she's like it's gonna be Another half an hour Or whatever he keeps getting paged So I think he thought

She would be like Walking off the plane When he got in there And it turns out she's delayed And then I tell his car Who parks there? though. Seriously? Nobody. Only people in movies. It's ridiculous.

My only other in answerable question, could anyone else have been John McLean for you guys? Ugh. Wow. It's a pretty nice mix of comedy and action that I think made it unique for Bruce Willis. And then every man, too. What about like Treat Williams?

I don't think he had the sense of humor piece. What about Jeff Bridges? That's not bad. It's a different vibe, but I think he could have done it. Yeah, that's not bad. I can't believe you dropped a treat Williams on us. Chris, do you think Dana Wheeler-Nickleson could have done it? I mean, we'll never know, but that's a hell of a what-if.

Bridges is a good one. I don't think Bridges... When I direct Dana Wheeler Nicholson's last dance, I'll be sure to ask her. I'll show her the iPad of Die Hard 2. I was going to ask you if we'll never know because she's been locked in your basement for several years. She's Dana Willerson, Nicholson, Ryan. Jet Bridges never did this everyman thing. I guess the closest was probably blown away, right?

But he's got the Irish accent in that. Yeah. Chris, what piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? How about the charred remains of 210 British Airways passengers? No? Jesus Christ, Bill. I was going to say, I like the white snowsuits those guys wear. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Now I'm going to start wearing that round spot. It's good ones. You should come back. You're watching. We're watching the next. We're watching was recording with that white ski mask over your head. Yeah.

I think the obvious answer is the gun with the blanks with the blue tape on it would be a cool thing to break out of parties. You're even to try to shoot people. Yeah. Just blanks. It's the hard too good, guys. I would have that. Oh, Craig says the plane phone.

Mm, that's a good one. It's weird that in 1990 you could just like make calls from the plane, even if it costs like $20 a minute. And we can't do that now. yeah there's got to be some sort of security stuff going but i also am glad because it like the worst thing in the world would be to be like on a cross-country flight with a guy on the phone for six hours that's maybe that why they got rid of it the only other thing i had for memorabilia items was bruce willis's sweater for the first hour is such like an early 90s sweater the nobody would

ever wear that anymore that's the one of the shawl collar yeah love yeah nobody has that uh who on the movie our guy bruce willis no doubt he did it again Bill, can I ask you because I feel like you keep ducking this? Do you not like Die Hard with a vengeance that much? I need to see it again. It's a very big one for Chris and I. It's a perfect movie.

I need to see it again. I haven't seen in a while. It's not really on that much. No, I know. I mean, also, you got all this. It's kind of been banned from cable, it feels like. No, it hasn't. It was on a lot.

I don't see it ever. When it came out, it was on all the time on HBO. How come you're like, I'm crushing regarding Henry tape, but I can't seem to find die hard with a vengeance. I'll send my scouts to die hard of vengeance.

It's fine. I'm gonna do it. You mock me, but this is why I keep this handy. This is always within, within arm's reach, so I can watch DH with a V. I was really,

I remember I saw the one with Justin. You should be regarding H. Because that's where the watchful's is going. I, uh, I saw the one with Justin Long, the day of the NBA draft. And I was going to do a draft diary later that day. So I wanted to kill time so I could keep my head straight.

And it was like the worst decision because I didn't think it was very good and it made me mad. And I was in like the wrong state of mind for the draft diary. Four and five are not strong. What was like some of, so you really felt like not liking that late period diehard movie come out in your writing? Yeah, I just was the wrong choice. What year did that come out? this year you should watch regarding Henry

and then watch do a draft diary it was 2007 was live for your diehard so what draft was that that's a big one that was the Durant draft yeah

yeah so Odin Doran go back and read it probably didn't do as good of a job as I could have because Justin Long I just couldn't figure out why he was in multiple scenes with Bruce Willis

I didn't know what happened if somebody had called then sick your your chairman E jokes were not as strong as they could have been. Or maybe I had told too many of them. That might have been it too.

I might have been burned out. I just called this up. You open with you complaining about Wally Zerbeak and Delante West getting ankle surgery. See? It's nice to know that you haven't aged today. Terrible choice. Producer Craig,

what do you think of diehard too? I love diehardt. I actually have, I've only seen one and two, but I watched it with Liz. I kind of forced her to watch it. Oh. She doesn't, yeah.

And she liked it a lot but was then freaking horrified when the plane crashed and I even kind of forgot that. It's like, wow, they really just move on. I think that's why it's not on as much as one and three. I think the plane crashed, it's the reaction to a lot of normal people

of why did that just happen? There's a very easy like the rock way of fixing this where like it could have just been like, that's what I would have done. Don't, like he saves the plane at the last second Like when Ed Harris shoots the rockets in San Francisco and then he like redirects them at the last second He's just like, don't make me do this to you

But instead Stewart's just a fucking psycho and crashes a plane and then Yeah, I think Randy Harlan wanted to He was fired up I think he was just like, let's do it We'll actually crash the plane It'd be great. Yeah, I can't think of a movie that seems like

That makes me think about how different flying on a plane in airports used to be than this movie. Yeah, that's true. I forgot to mention when we were We were doing what stage the best worst is this movie had trouble on the old TVs for a while because it's filmed super wide. It's fine now with the TVs we have, but it was really hard to follow with all the action because they would have to move the camera around to try to fit the square.

Now you can really get Fred Dalton Thompson. So you better feel. So I think it's, I think it's grown. Did this movie make Fred Dalton Thompson a senator essentially? Like these Hunt for October and Die Hard 2 where people just like, let's just vote this guy in? I think so. There was a couple other ones in there, two ones in there. Didn't work for Dennis Franz.

All right, this podcast was produced by Craig Horlebeck. Thanks to Sean and Chris. And thanks to Bruce Willis for some classics over the years. Enjoy retirement. We hope you feel better. And we'll see you next weekend and we'll watch it.