The Rewatchables - ‘Easy A’ With Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins, and Shea Serrano

Episode Date: September 17, 2020

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins, and Shea Serrano fake rock your world after rewatching one of the last great teen movies, ‘Easy A,’ starring Emma Stone, Amanda Bynes, and Penn Badgley. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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so no, I really couldn't care. less, and this is their rewatchables. I always thought that pretending to lose my virginity would be a little more special. Judy Blum should have prepared me for that. Brandon told me what you did for. No, he told me the truth. I was just hoping that maybe you could do the same for me. So whether I liked it or not, I was open for business.

20% off to Bath and Body Works. Is that how much our imaginary trust bent to you? I fake rocked your world. We need to pray for her, but we also need to get her the hell out of here. Amen. I had a similar situation when I was your age. I had a horrible reputation. Why?

Because I sold a whole bunch of people. Mostly guys. Mom. There's a higher power that will judge you for your indecency. Tom Cruise. Welcome to the rewatchables. I'm Julia Littman. I am joined today by my colleagues, Amanda Dobbins, of the big picture.

Hi, Juliet. And Shay Serrano of The Connect. What up? You guys are movie buffs. I feel really out of my element. here. I'm just a lowly reality TV podcaster. I'm sure you'll be fine. We are discussing today, EasyA.

One of the last great teen movies, perhaps. We will dive into all of it. Shea, what's your just overall impression of EasyA? My overall impression of EasyA is that this is the first time I had rewatched it, probably since the movie book came out last year. I rewatched it for that. And it's still funny. It's still fun.

Emma Stone is still very charming. She's still very obviously a movie star. Very obviously. It's kind of wild. We'll talk about that in depth. Amanda, what are your feelings on EZA? Well,

the Emma Stone of it all, sorry, if we can talk about it right now, and I know we'll talk about it throughout the podcast. I rewatched it again last night, and I was just like, holy cow,

is Emma Stone good in this movie? And this movie is understood as like the movie that cements Emma Stone as a movie star she had been in a few things before. including Super Bad and the House Bunny, I believe. But this is like, it's Emma Stone Time. This movie came out in 2010.

That's why we're doing this podcast. September 2010, 10 years ago. And as you said, she had been in a few movies that people liked her in, but this just launched her into a different stratosphere of Hollywood. And then the next year, she was in Crazy Stupid Love and The Help. And I believe she had one more, but it doesn't really matter. Let's keep going. Yes.

So Emma Stone, she's come to us straight off. Superbad. And here we are in Emma Stone's world. So I just kind of feel like when there's something that's commonly understood as like EZA is the movie that made Emma Stone, and sometimes you just kind of take it for granted that like, yeah, Emma Stone or whoever is very good in this movie or this thing is true. But I was absolutely blown away by this performance.

Again, it is definitely one of the best comedic performances of the last decade in opinion. I think it does everything that Emma Stone does so well. It is the perfect marriage, I think, of actress and role. And this movie is a very fine line to walk. And I really do not think it works without Emma Stone's charm and sort of generosity of spirit. You really want to be with her. And I think that papers over, I wouldn't say problems because I think the movie itself is also pretty self-assured and knows mostly where to pick its spots. But it's a trickier movie if you don't have someone as charming as Emma Stone in the center. Totally.

I totally agree. I'm curious to hear what you guys will say for the recasting couch when we get there. But looking back, kind of reminds me of Cameron Diaz when she hit the scene with like the mask. And you're like, oh, this is a beautiful leading woman who is extremely funny. And I can't really think. of many other times, this has happened, like, outside of an, of an obvious comedy, like, setting. Like, there's obviously women come out of Saturday Night Live and there's other female comedians. But for women to sort of, like, emerge as these really gifted comedians based on a movie,

I feel like it's just, like, less common. Is that, is that a correct assertion? What do you think, Shea? Yeah, that feels, that feels absolutely correct. The, the thing that Amanda said that I always, uh, come back to every time I watch this movie is, I think Amanda's exactly right. Like the movie can fall apart very quickly if you have anybody except for Emiston in this role. It's like a very similar thing with the setup for the 40-year-old virgin. Without Steve Carell in that movie, it becomes exceptionally creepy. Same thing here.

Without Emma Stone, without Emma Stone's gravity holding all of the parts together, it becomes like, this is a bad, that bad idea. Don't do a bad idea. Yeah, and that's very obvious from the beginning when she's doing the pocketful of sunshine montage on her bed over the weekend in question.

And it's just like very entertaining and very, very winning. It's just, you know, it was the birth of a new celebrity and kind of amazing because she hasn't had a huge movie really since like the favorite, I think, is that correct? Yeah, I think that's true.

She was on Maniac for a while. while and we'll talk about Corella at some point in terms of what's coming up next. Do you guys know about Corella? That's going to be so good. It's going to be so good. But it's also just a movie about a woman who uses, likes to wear dog skins. I mean, that's still like the setup of 101 Dalmatians and Corell DeVille as I understand it. So once again, really tricky premise, interested to see how Emma Stone walks that line. It's going to it's going to, it's going to no work. Super weird.

She was really good than the favorite. I just bring that up because she's still a celebrity of major intrigue. Like she crossed the line from really talented actress to A-list celebrity

that people just care about all the time. She's had so many hits since then. I mean, just really so many. One of the most successful and famous actress for the last 10 years, probably capped by all of the Oscar

madness for both La La Land and the favorite. But then on the flip side, of this. Guys, this is the final film of Amanda Binds. There's a transition. She handed it off. She said, here, Emma, you go, you go be a famous white woman now. Take the, take my trophy. Well, I think it's meaningful because this movie feels like a real torch passing. You kind of go from the era of teen movies in the aughts that kind of like was died out in the back half of the decade after there were so many from 1997 to like,

2004-ish, Picking with Mean Girls. And then there's like all of these people in this movie who were famous in that decade. Like really are not famous anymore. Like the guy who plays Brandon and her best friend Riannon and even Penn Badgley to an extent who like obviously had the resurgence with you. But like it's a real time capsule of people who seemed like maybe they were going to stick around for a while. And then also there's the whole secondary level.

of the extremely talented adults in this movie, which is just like a murderer's row, Thomas Hayden Church, Lisa Kudrow, Stanley Tudgeon, and Patricia Clarkson. Like, those are four incredible actors. It's really true. She, what is your relationship

to the Amanda Bynes' teen movies of the 2000s? I think the two most famous are what a girl wants and she's the man. So if you have a relationship to any others. Those are the two. I watched both of those movies at the time.

You're just like, all right, cool. This was like the, what was that movie that Jonathan Brandis did? Where he with Rodney Bugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. They're doing that. But in reverse, all right, I'll watch it. I was never like a big Amanda Byns fan.

This to me is my favorite role that she's ever done. I think it's just really clever. And I don't know if it's supposed to be subversive, but it feels like it is. Interesting. So I just, I think this is the most interesting. that I've ever been in Amanda Bindes' career when she plays Marianne in this movie. I have a very different take on that.

I can't wait to discuss it as we get into the categories. Let's go. She also was very, very good in hairspray. But she's the man is like a cult classic now. And obviously Channing Tatum's in it, one of his first movies. And it's just, it's weird to kind of go back and be like, oh, this was the last time

Amanda Binds was it working? actress. You know, and it's so much evolved since then. It's just a weird bookend on her acting career. I didn't, I didn't even like think this was a thing until you mentioned it in the emails when we were sending. I had no idea that this was her last movie. I just assumed she had been in a bunch of other stuff. I assumed I'd seen her in other stuff. And as soon as you said that, I was like, that can't be. Is that right? And then I go look at it. Oh, shit, that's exactly right. That's crazy. Did something happen? That's my question. Did something happen with her where she was like, I'm done with Hollywood.

Uh, yes, basically. I think Amanda Binds, the last decade has been kind of personally a little bit troubling for her. And she's been working through some things. And, you know, it's, it's one of those, one of those sad stories. And I think as a result has not worked as much. I did also read somewhere and I'm sorry to step on half ass internet research, but that she didn't like, but she didn't like her performance in this movie. And so decided to not be an actress anymore, which is sad on a couple of of levels, one of them being, I think she's very good in it. And I think that she and Emma Stone have like real chemistry. When they're going back and forth, Emma Stone is definitely playing off her as the villain. I mean, she's like the villain in this movie, though. This movie kind of pulls all of its punches. So even there, Amanda Binds gets to be pretty funny. But they have a great dynamic. And I think that other casting like wouldn't wouldn't be as vibrant. Yeah, that's surprising to hear she didn't like it. I loved it.

She's a great actress, like just in general. Like, she's also very funny. I mean, and she had a very long career up until then. It's just strange to realize that this is kind of like the capstone on that, at least for now. Where would you guys say this film sits in the pantheon of great teen movies? I think that's a tricky conversation to have for a couple of reasons. Number one, this is, it's a good movie. there's like no getting around that part.

So it belongs in like whatever the upper third of it is. But I think I think it gets added importance because this movie acts really as a bridge between, as you mentioned, that big like slate of teen movies that we had in the late 90s, early 2000s. And then there's kind of nothing that that's happening. And then this one shows up in 2010. And everyone was like, oh, shit, I remember these movies. These are cool. And then we don't get too many more of them.

Until recently, there's been a whole big push again with sort of Netflix, the driving force behind all of that, where we'd get in a bunch of these movies, all that once again. But I think because of those two things, it's got to be pretty high up there. Not like top 10 pretty high, but maybe top 15. Amanda? I think it's pretty high for me as well, because in a lot of ways, EZA is a summary of all the types of teen movies that came before it that I really liked. It has a lot of obvious John Hughes references. I think the director, Will Glock has talked about how Ferris Bueller is, I think, his favorite movie. And, you know, Emma Stone does, like, the shower, little the Mohawk, as Ferris Bueller does.

And she has that, like, never had one lesson when playing the guitar, which is one of my favorite scenes from Ferris Bueller. But also, she, like, literally says in the dialogue, my life isn't a John Hughes movie. And there's a John Hughes montage, like, in the final act. Exactly. And references to many of the climactic moments. So it's obviously in dialogue with those movies, which I think a lot of people would consider formative or at least extremely influential teen movies. And then for me, it has something in common with the kind of with the 2000s and early 2010's like self-awareness meta commentary on the teen romcom. It knows all of the, tropes and is making fun of a lot of the like high school dynamics and assumptions, you know, like in a way that mean girls does, though it's far less vicious than mean girls, but is still also engaging with them in that John Hughes way. And I learned to watch movies from kind of like the Mean Girls satirical school of things.

And so I like that it's poking fun at all of these tropes while still also honoring the the John Hughes of it all. So to me, that is pretty high because it like acknowledges all that comes before it and seems like, you know,

it learned and improves upon. And also because it's so specifically to how I personally learned to watch movies, it's very much time to, to my, uh, time frame and references.

Can I ask a question here? Please, do. You know how when, uh, when like an animated movie comes out or a movie that's very specifically for kids. And then you go watch it and you're sitting there and you realize that the people who made it put some stuff in there that only the adults are going to

get. Some like little winks, some sly little things. Okay. So that's been happening with animated movies for a long time. This was the first time I could remember watching a teen movie where they set it up. So you watch it and they're like, we're going to put a bunch of stuff in here for people who grew up watching these other kinds of movies. Specifically the John Hughes ones or we're going to like poke at the tropes a little bit. But I couldn't remember. I can't remember that happening in a teen movie before this. I think that's why it always feels a little bit pulled between two worlds because it's not only specifically for teens.

They're also like adding the adult element into it, which is sort of like you can't not notice that when you're watching it. You know what I'm saying? Totally. And I think Clueless does that a little bit as well. And they both have a lot of literary references that I think are kind of like four adults and also kind of sort of. skewering the lead. Like I think about Cher, not knowing Billy Holiday as a woman.

And when I was a kid and I was watching that movie, that like kind of like went right over my head. And I think there's like similarly some, and you know, I was fairly young and probably teenagers would have known. But I think that there's like an archness to both EZA and clueless that make them feel like they're for multiple generations. Like you could watch this with your parents.

And there's something for like a lot of people in it. But I also bring up Clueless because I also wanted to ask you guys as a corollary question, like, where does Emma Stone as Olive stand in like the pantheon of great female leads in teen movies? Because, you know, I really think it's like a category of three, maybe four. I'm not a Molly Ringwald fan, but I guess you should include her. But like Molly Ringwald, Alicia Silverstone, Lindsay Lohan, and Emma Stone. Like, I think that's kind of like the big four of the genre.

I almost fell out of my chair right now when you said you weren't a Molly Ringwald fan. I love Molly Ringgo. How do you not love Molly Ringwald? I do not. I like Molly Ringwald, but those aren't the John Hughes movies that stay with me. Like, and I do think there's, I do think that there's a really interesting thing. Not to be gender essentialist, but like I do think some of the John Hughes, like Molly Ringwald characters resonate more with male audiences than they do with female audiences. I'm a Ferris Bueller person all the way.

Because that's just like the idealized. That's the coolest person. That's the person who's having the most fun. But anyway, I like Molly Ringwald, but I'm kind of with you, Juliet. Anyway. Oh, my God. Sorry, I want to get off of this. I'm out of here.

I'm out of here. That was, I think, one of my hot takes that Molly Ringwald is not that good. But, you know, hit me up on the side if you'd like to discuss. Yeah, but the point stands, you know, we got. three redheads in Alicia Silverstone that I think just dominate the genre. Rachel McAdams doesn't get, we can't slide Rachel into this.

For Regina George? Yeah. Do you think that, I guess you would make, that would be arguing that she's the protagonist of mean girls, but which I think I would argue that she also is,

but we've already fought these wars between the three of us. So I think that she's better than Lindsay Lohan. That's my really hot take. Okay. So if you want to rank, if you want,

You want me to rank them? I'll rank them. I still, I think Alicia Silverstone, in clueless, is just sort of like lightning at a bottle never happens again even for Alicia Silverstone performance. That is like tremendous. And also I saw that movie with my mother at Lennox Mall in Atlanta, Georgia, when I was 11 years old. It will never, ever be recreated for me.

It's my number one. Number two for me is Emma Stone. Again, it's just amazing how good she is in this. Number three for me is Molly Ringwald, just because, she dated ad rock in the 80s and I think that's cool. And number, I wish I could have. And number four is

Lindsay Lohan in Mean Girls, which I think that she's good, but it's not my favorite of the performances. And also like that movie isn't about her. It's about everybody else. What about, where does Rachel slide in here from She's All That? Rachel E. Cook.

I think, I'm glad to bring that up. I think that movie, Again, I don't want to go to gender essentialist, but I think that movie is so dominated by a kind of male point of view that some of these other or, you know, all of these movies, I believe, are not mean girls or clueless, but two of the four they were discussing

are written by men. But I think there's such a like kind of normative view in, or normative gaze in she's all that, that does not feel as present in some of the other movies we're discussing. And for that reason, for me, it's like in a slightly different world. And like, that's like a Freddie Prince Jr. movie to me. Like, he's so charming in it. And I also like love Matthew Lillard in that movie. So it's just, it just feels a little bit different to me.

But, you know, it's a great movie. I think like 10 things that think 10 things I hate about use also this conversation, like where does Julia Stiles fit into it? And it's a, it's a wide field. That's why this movie is so important is because it really revived this genre that had been dormant for a few years and hasn't really picked up since. So if we're, if we're doing a thing where it's like, okay, we're all going to, we're going to make our teen movie and you need to pick one person at the center of this.

Amanda, you're going with 1995 Alicia Silverstone. That's who you need in it. Well, is she in Clueless or is she in another movie? Because the thing is, is that the share horror performance cannot be recreated. And I love Alicia Silverstone. I think she's great in that movie. but she really, she hasn't really had a soaring career after that. If, if you, you know, to be generous.

So like, I think she only works in that particular situation. And it's still my favorite. But if you're asking me to build like a new movie around just an actress who I think can make it work. Yes. For many year, pick a year. I think Emma Stone has to be up there. It's amazing everything that she does in this.

That's it. Okay. That's who that's who ends up being my pick is 2010 Emma Stone. It's the same for you, Julia? That's who you're going to. Yeah. Totally agree. We're going to ride that wagon. It's a huge accolade though. Like this is like one of the most, you know, firm, like fundamental genres of movies of like the last 50 years. And we're all like, yeah, 2010 Emma Stone, we're building around her. Like that's the piece, you know? Yeah. I do have my number two, though. Who's the number two? Which is two. 2004 Rachel McAdams because that is both mean girls and the notebook. Yeah. Which, and I think you really have to credit Rachel McAdams for both of those.

You know who my number two is? Yeah. We're going to keep on going. I think it's 2000, maybe 2001, 2000, Gabrielle Union. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a good one. Gabriel Union has made every movie better that she has been in. I would like to see that 2000 Gabrielle Union teen, teen movie.

like we saw it and bring it on, let's get another version of that, but with her at the center of it. Yeah, I mean, she was in 10 things too. It's huge. She's also and she's all that. Yeah, yeah, totally.

I like it when she plays someone who's like a little bit bitchy. In general. Anyway, I mean, I think we just gave 2010 Emma Stone one of the highest accolades. One could be given on the rewatchable. So let's just talk about the movie a little bit and then get into the categories.

It was directed by Will Gluck, who is a professed fan of John Hughes. As we've discussed, there's so much John Hughes DNA running through this. We'll talk more about this. The film was set in Ohio because the writer, who is named Bert Royal, wanted it to be somewhere similar to a Chicago suburb, like all the John Hughes movies who wanted it to be like an L.A. suburb. We'll discuss that. Oh, hi, not a Chicago suburb.

Oh, hi. Not an L.A. suburb either. It's like an hour and a half outside. They filmed all of it on location in Ohio, including at a local high school. And they weren't prepared for the lack of indoor hallways. So they had to do a lot of on the scene improv of how to account for that in the direction. It premiered at TIF, which feels like elegeic, as we are not doing film festivals right now, due to coronavirus. And it was, you know, one of these scripts that people mentioned, like to throw out there was on like on the blacklist of like great unproduced scripts, which doesn't really check out to me because like all the other internet research suggests that the script was not sitting around for that long. And good old Bert allegedly wrote almost all of it in five consecutive days. Like there was not a lot of like pain that I feel like often accompanies these blacklist stories. But whatever. Let's get into the categories. Number one, most rewatched.

scene. Shea, please nominate a scene. Oh, I think we already mentioned it earlier. I'm still taken aback by how, I guess just how quickly charming she is during the greeting card scene over the weekend when she just keeps playing it over and over again. It does like a very predictable joke when it starts playing. She's like, uh, grows and then throws it. And then it just keeps on leaning more and more into it. I thought there's really like a clever use of, of time to build up this character. By the end of that week, you're never going to break me. But by the end of it, you're like, oh, okay, I'm rooting for this person, whatever happens

in the rest of this movie. I like that scene because Emma Stone early on in the movie really gets to shine. It's clear that she will be a one woman show carrying this movie. And you're just like you want to spend more time with that character. It's pretty cool. It's a pretty big achievement. It's just her alone in a room. She's carrying it and a pretty annoying song.

And you just watch it. It's very natural and also very funny and performative. It just feels like you are alone in a room with her and she's being. I think the good. goofiness is a is a very hard quality to transmute on screen. And there is just like a winning goofiness to that montage that, as you guys said, you're just on board for the rest of the movie. Yeah, that's such a hard trick to pull off without it,

making it seem like that's what you're doing. Yeah. Without it being like, look how zany I am. It never feels like that. It feels like it feels like you, they caught her with without knowing that the camera was on. And she's just like having a good time for real, like genuinely enjoying. what is going on there. And then she's like playing with the dog back and forth.

And you're like, all right, cool, cool. Amanda, what else do you have on the list? So I'm going to go with an Emiston scene, even though I really would love to talk about the parents at some point. But I think the knock on wood scene towards the end is just when Emistone is just like, and yes, now I am a movie star, like capital M, capital S. And you always need a musical number in a teen, comedy, in my opinion, or some sort of performance. You need a crowd scene and people reacting.

And she's so good. It has nothing to do with being a teenager or a high school, but like, I don't really care. And it's like, I mean, do teenagers even know the song Knock on Wood? Probably not. Not even in 2010. But that's okay. But it is just, it's pure star quality. It's electrifying. And I still get really excited for those moments in movies. I thought that also, it seemed like she was lip-syncing, but then I was like, but she can sing. We learned that in Lola Land. I wondered if she was.

But I agree with you. I also feel like the way that scene was introduced in the movie, it's also just like, and now we're going to give you Emma Stone movie star singing because it's just sort of, it's a real like deistachshmachina in the back half of the movie, and you're just sort of like what's happening here, but you have no problem with it because she's delightful.

Are we allowed, okay, this is not going to be my pick. but I think I always look forward to this scene in the movie because Amanda mentioned when she starts singing at the thing is like her movie star moment. I think for me that moment when you go, oh, okay, she can do sort of everything is when she has a confessional. A lot of people have been asking me to do things

and I thought it was okay because it wasn't real, you know? It was make-believe. No one was getting hurt, But a lot of people hate me now. I kind of hate me too. I think that's the first time in the movie she really weaponizes her eyeballs,

these gigantic eyeballs that she has. And she's like, let me use them to like very quickly and very like thoroughly pull a bunch of emotion out of the center of your chest that you're not expecting to have happen in this sort of movie. As soon as she wets them up, you're just like, oh, fuck, this is like heartbreaking here. I think that for me, that's the one where you go,

all right, she's going to get an Oscar at some point. Yeah. And then a few minutes later, you're like, oh, Fred Armisen. Okay. Hello. Which took me out of it when I was watching. I forgot that he was in this and I was like, yeah. I'm never that excited to see Fred Armisen.

Sorry. My most rewatchable scene is when she has to tell her parents that she used the word twat and it got her sent to attention. I got sent to the principal today. Did you win a medal or something? Not exactly. I used inappropriate language in English class. Although, we're reading a book that I personally deem wildly inappropriate for our age groups. I actually felt it was quite out of the best.

What did you say? Let's just say it was an inappropriate word. Well, what did it start with? A snide comment from a snotty girl in my class. No, I mean, what letter did the word start? Ah, T. Oh, T. Oh, T. T?

T. Let us say it. T. Tea. Tea, tea, tea, tea, tea. Guys, noun, adjective, a verb. Noun. It's definitely slang.

Think British. Tallywecker. Termicant. Yob. Frast. Nunt. You're just saying sounds. There's sounds.

Spell it with your peas. Oh, yeah. Spell it with your peas. Do it. It's really good. It's really good. Really funny. I mean, I, I've mixed on Patricia Clarkson,

but the alchemy of Emma Stone. No, in this role, I love her in general. In general, I love her. I just, you know, we'll come back to it. But the alchemy of Patricia Clarkson, Stanley Tucci, and Emma Stone is so special. It's just like, how do they land on this? Like, it feels like a miracle that all these people ended up in this specific movie together. And this is kind of the Stanley Tucci comedy phase, like, tied with, you know, along with, like, Never Wars Prada and whatnot.

But it just feels like genuinely special. Yeah, it's really good. It's always fun when they finally, because they always introduce you to the parents at some point in these sort of teen movies. And it's cool when you see like who they are and like, oh, number one, I like when they have like really supportive parents. I mean, too. And Book Smart with, oh, who was it? What was his name? Feltzance parents?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Will Forte and Lisa Kudrae, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Will Forte and Lisa Kudrae. But they show up and they're like very supportive and happy and like, oh, this is like a happy family life. I like when they do that. And I really like when the parents, I feel like nailed down all the parts.

I thought Patricia Clarkson is outstanding in this. She's one of my favorite people in the whole movie. I love her too. I also love her. She had a great decade. I feel like the odds were really good for her as an adult. I think that these are probably my most underrated movie parents and possibly like movie and TV parents.

I want to be in this family. I also would like to be one of the adopted members. I feel very safe. I feel very supportive. I think they're really funny. I just, like, every single one of their one-liners makes me laugh, which is maybe how I know I'm incredibly old. Because I'm just like, yeah, I'm on the Stanley Tucci humor wavelength. But I feel good about that.

If that's where I am in life, it's fine by me. I think if you lived with them after day, like, two of you, like, trying to talk to them and they keep throwing these quips at you real fast. You're like, all right, fucking relax. I need to, I need to, I need to, can just answer my question? They even acknowledge the quippiness of their family, though, which is one of the reasons why they're so great is it's like a, there's like a real self-awareness there of how funny and witty they all are and expect each other to be. It's, it is. It just really works. And it feels like not a lot of other actors could have pulled this off as a trio. Yeah. Yeah. And I. And I do think it is also pretty sneakily essential to the Olive character because we'll talk more about this, but like this. This. This is a person who goes through a lot and makes some choices that, like, really, we would not recommend to anyone listening to this podcast or their children or, you know, friends or people you meet on the street. It's not a situation you want to be in. But this character always seems like she is so in control.

And even in the tough moments is, like, very grounded and it's like, well, I'm going to sort this out. And you understand a little bit that she has parents who she can communicate with. and they're just kind of like, well, kid, like, we believe in you. And it rounds out how she is able to navigate what are otherwise pretty much completely unrealistic circumstances. Completely. It'll be a long picking this. This is my final answer.

What about you guys? The twat, the twat kitchen scene. I love that. I don't want to vote against that. But I think you got to go with pocket of sunshine as like the iconic. That's like the Oscar real. You know, that's like, it's when she gets nominated, which by the way, she should have. Okay.

I'll say this five times during the podcast. Why didn't she get nominated for an Oscar for this? But that's what plays. I think you're right. Just a brief aside, and perhaps we'll have to bleep this. Is Twat really that bad of a word? That's one of my pickiness. I agree with you.

Come on. Worst things are happening at this high school. Grow up. The C word is far, far worse, in my opinion. This is like a two-strike policy for, one not that bad word. I mean, even in 2010, they had Facebook.

They talked about it in the movie. Worst things are being said. I agree with you. Okay, good. I'm glad we're on the same page there. Perhaps, you know, there was a lot of curse words written into the script that were cut

so they could get a PG-13 rating. So it's possible she used a C-word or something more offensive, but this is what they had to settle for to get that rating, which just occurred to me. This episode is brought to you by TikTok. Music makes everything better, which is why it's at the core of TikTok's culture.

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Discover more on TikTok. Let's talk about what age the best. And I think this is a long list. Shea, you start. Oh, I thought you were going to give us some nominations. We're just picking our own? Well, I can give you some. You want me to go down the list?

I'll do it. Because I feel like if you just tell me to pick one, I'm going to just keep on picking Emma Stone every time and then I'm going to miss a lot of the other stuff. So maybe you are going to throw some out there that I wouldn't think of. Number one with a bullet, the use of YouTube. and vlogging. I mean, come on.

We're still doing this, unfortunately. Really solid. And it's foundational to the movie. Emma Stone famously auditioned via, like, YouTube. She like sent in a reel that she did it with like her webcam or whatever. And it just, it really works. It does not feel dated whatsoever.

It's kind of shocking. Technology is hard to do well. It feels prescient. Yeah. Or is still relevant 10 years later. Julia, it makes me really happy when we do these. list and then ours are the same. This was also the first thing on my list. I just like, I feel seen and understood. So I just wanted you to know that. It's a moment of community on

this rewatchables. Also, I agree. They're funny scenes. And she's so good in them also. Yeah. Like, like there is something she would be a good YouTube star, which Emma Stone, like you have other things to do. Please don't. It's not the path that you need to take now, but she could do it. It's, it's realistic. Totally. There's a lot of options for her on so many platforms. I feel like if she were a little bit younger, Emma Stone would be a great TikToker. She's got the physical comedy, you know. So she could do dance videos. She could do comedy.

She could do so many things. Let her do it now. Let's not put age limits on anything, okay? Just saying she might not want to, you know? Sure. Sure. Number two, what age the best? As I alluded to earlier, I think picking Ohai's the location was also very prescient.

We're two for two. Amanda, make the case for Ohio. and explain where it is as a filmic and real life location. Okay, so perhaps we'll just share a brief what is Ohio for people who are not familiar. I have no idea. Yeah, Ohio is a town. I believe it's about a hundred-ish miles north of Los Angeles. You drive on the 101 towards Santa Barbara and then you make a right turn before you get to Santa

Barbara and drive in to like a very beautiful picturesque valley, which is has turned into now a like kind of rich hippie community. And emphasis more on like wealthy than on hippie at this point. I think it has hippie-ish roots. And now it's just become a place where a lot of people from Los Angeles, um, who are able to have second homes. Congratulations to them. Have them in Ohio. And then there is also a community of, um, you know, people who live there as well. But as someone who has visited Ohio loved it and then looked longingly at real estate prices, I can tell you that it is a wealthy enclave. It's kind of like the Woodstock of California. If I had to find a more historical and East Coast counterpart. Like that like Woodstock,

New York, like the town and not the music festival. Correct. Right. Like the Hudson Valley, etc. Yes. It's, um, I'm pretending to be a hippie, but I'm actually quite wealthy, like that kind of thing. Yeah, but I just want to say it's naturally very beautiful. It's kind of surrounded by mountains on almost every side. It's like the Ohio Valley. And so they have what they call the pink moments, which is just like branding of a sunset reflecting on the mountains that happens in a lot of mountain communities. But it is very beautiful. And you do see the pink moment at one point in the movies when Emma Stone and Patricia Clarkson are sitting on the roof of the car having that final heart to heart. I think it starts at the magic hour pink. moment. That's, I mean, that's what the pink moment is. But again, they're big on branding in Ohio. And you can see when like all of those, um, scenes at the, the overlook when Emma Stone and various friends or moms are on drive up in the car and look over the valley. It's quite beautiful. They also grow, um, it's, they're not tangerines. They're, they're pixie. Pongolos. Pixie. I don't know. It's a citrus community. So that's what it is. It is a citrus.

I hope everyone in Ohio's safe. It's definitely a fire-grown area. So, sounding the best of the area. Yes. Really, everyone on the West Coast. Oh, hi came to me from the television show Brothers and Sisters, which was a few years earlier. It was a location where, like, there was a farm and they work in the produce industry on the great ABC, Greg Berlanti vehicle, brothers and sisters. And Oh, Ohio spelled OJ-A-I.

It's very confusing. O-I is lovely. It also has like a fairly tony and somewhat famous resort with a golf cart. golf course in a spa. Um, my problem with Ohio is it's super boring. It is beautiful and there's lovely nature. Um, and a great outdoor bookstore store called Bart's. Bart's books featured in EZA.

A. It's a wonderful bookstore. Um, it's where Emma Stone goes to read the Bible like you do. Uh, on the shelf, that's a twilight on the shelf. But yeah, it's a, it's a secondhand bookstore all pretty much outdoors. They're very lovely. Shout out to Bart's. I hope they're doing.

well. I just, it's age the best, though I personally find it boring. It is now like a mainstay and like architectural digest and it's sort of like just a very trendy place now. So, in 10 years ago, I think it was building up to that, but good pick by these people. But if the intention is for it to be a suburb like the ones that Ferris Bueller grew up in, that is very off base. That is not correct. It is quite far away from Los Angeles. It's like, you know, a day trip. but it's not a commuter town. I agree with all of that. I think also I would just like to explore the values of Ohio as portrayed in this particular film, but we can do that later.

Well, I have next on the list of what age the best, making fun of California hippies. That never gets old. That's true. Shea, as a non-Californian, what does you think of like the projected image of California team? life in this movie. It didn't even register to me. It was not a thing that I was thinking about. Now, they make it a very clear

point at the, during the credits of the opening, or during the opening scene, they show you the sign, the Ohio sign, which I didn't know it was pronounced Ohio. I didn't know it was in California. I didn't know anything about anything. I thought that they were doing it just to show you the

population there, I think it was like 8,700 people or something like that. I thought I was going to be like, oh, okay, we're just, we just want you to know that this This is in a small little town. I didn't know they were trying to do all this other shit. So here, y'all talk about it. I don't understand anything. I think that also speaks to the pick of Ohio at the time, probably as people who lived in

L.A. and, like, we're familiar with it. But it sort of is, like, random to a lot of other people, which kind of works well. I think that actually is similar to the Chicago suburbs made famous by John Hughes movies. They have a very specific feeling if you're from there and know about them, but otherwise they're just, like, suburban USA. day. Yeah, one of my favorite things to do when I go back and watch movies or like start to read about movies or learn about them is to like look too far into stuff. And I would say right now that's the argument I would make. Oh, this is like a very clever hat tip that we're going to be

doing our version of this thing over here. It's like not going to mean anything to most people, but to some people is going to mean a great, great deal. Well, I think that was successful. So that is not my pick. Please please continue. Another nomination, Emma Stone's wardrobe. I think that both her like regular girl outfits and her supposedly slutty outfits both have a place in today's fashion world. That's a solid pick. That's a solid pick. Those are my lists.

What do we forget? What I forget. Go ahead, Amanda. I would just add, I think the jokes in this script for the most part, there are a lot of like very clever one-liners. And I don't want to give it. Like, there are also some jokes that fall flat and some jokes that haven't aged well. I think one of the things that we always talk about in comedy is that most things, when you look back, you might have liked to do some of those things a little differently and made the jokes a bit differently.

But there are a lot of the way that the teenagers talk to each other and to the parents and like all of the scenes with Stanley 2J and Patricia Clarkson, I think are just like are very funny in a one-liner sense. Yeah, totally. I agree. That's a good pick too. I think I'm going to go back to my original one then here. If that's the list that we have, I think. Please do. I think just this performance by Emma Stone at this point in her career, because you mentioned

2007 she popped up in Super Bad. That was the first time I'd seen her in a movie. I don't know if that was her first official movie. She didn't have a whole lot to do there. So that's like not a role that I come to immediately when I think of Emma Stone. It's more one of those like when you rewatch it, you go like, oh, young Emma Stone. A stone, cool. Yeah. But she goes from that where she has very little to do. And then like, she's sort of working her way up. She's getting more and more screen time every time up until zombie land where she's got like one of the core parts, but not the core part. And then this is her like, let's put her in the in front of the camera for the whole time and see what happens. And I think she just very much planted her flag. And it's just so obvious to see. And then from there going forward, oh, okay, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, this is like awesome. I think that's undeniable, but also a cheat.

I mean, yeah. Obviously, Emma Stone aged really well, the episode performance. It's not a cheat. I feel like we just have to establish. Because, I mean, I agree with Shay. Like, the Emma Stone performance is definitely the thing that aged the best. Like, we are. Emma Stone is going to be the winner of like 45 categories in this.

Sorry if I just spoiled the podcast, but also we have to be smart here. So I'm doing like, that's like one and then one A for me would be the webcam framing. Just because I think it's. A more clever pick. You're right. You're right. I mean, it's not clever, but it's just we got to make a podcast. You know what I'm saying? And we got to have other things to talk about. And I do think that it's so often, like, the understanding of not just technology, but also social media and how these things are used amongst teens is wrong at the beginning and then definitely ages poorly. And this still feels spot on. I wonder if when you watched it in 2010, did you feel? feel that same way about it or did it feel sort of foreign? Because this is like one of those situations where they, it seems like they took a swing. This, maybe, you know, maybe people are going to use this later on or maybe this becomes a thing or not. Like, a lot of movies would do that and they'll like put a little technology thing in there. And 10 years later, it just totally,

like, oh, okay, it didn't work out like that after all. But with this one, everything went in that direction. I don't know if we knew that at the time. It's a good point. And it probably, the way that I responded to the Olive character in 2010 versus now is a bit different because I think kind of vlogging is ubiquitous and selfieing and all of this stuff. You just put yourself on the internet now. But in 2010 and I would have been in my mid-20s, I think, at that point, it said something about like the type of high school person that you were or like it was a high school stereotype in movies that I think it probably isn't now, if that makes any sense. Yeah.

There's two pieces of this movie that have strong callbacks to One Tree Hill. And one of them is the webcam. That was a big part of One Tree Hill that Peyton used to broadcast herself all the time. So I think that there was like a precedent for it. But it definitely probably felt more just innovative in like a new way of thinking about like how to narrate a movie. And I think that that was cool then, and it's cool now. I mean, figuring out narration remains difficult and hard to reinvent because it's so straightforward.

And like voiceover is, you know, like just voiceover that this just, I think, worked really well. Especially with her holding up the signs. And which to me actually was in stark contrast to the really like specific and pointless credits that they roll at the beginning and the end of like making the text seem like it's part of the landscape. I thought that was really strange. And it's like very, it's the opposite of the very analog signs that she holds up to like show each act of the movie. And I thought that just worked really well. It was a really good combination of like analog and digital and old and new and like melding a teen what a teen would do with how to make a movie work. That was just really smart.

Listening to you to talk about this, I would like to change my answer. Specifically, specifically to the science thing though, because as you're talking, I'm realizing I really like in the movies. when they like set up a device early on and you know they're doing it and you're like, oh, they're going to do this like four more times. I can't wait for it. Like when you watch 500 days of summer and the first time they like toggle things and you're like, oh, shit, what just, oh, they're going to do this. A whole movie, awesome.

That's what happens in this one when she holds up that first sign and she's like part one or whatever. Oh, there's going to be like this is how the whole thing is structured. Awesome. All right. I'm changing mine. I'm changing. All right.

We agree. Wonderful. We agree. We agree on one out of 18 things so far. On to what's age the worst. Shea, I want to talk about this, you. Because number one for me is Amanda Bind's character being a Christian in a very negative way. And that also reminded me of One Tree Hill, where they had the clean teens.

And it was like these teenagers who profess to be virgins and Christianity is very tied up in it. And so I'm curious to you what resonated so much about Amanda Bind's character, Marianne. All that it was was I saw so much. of the high school experience that that I had when I was in school. This was like, I don't know where it came from. I think it started like maybe around my seventh or eighth grade year. But there was this, there were these like categories of types of kids you could be. And they talk about this in the movie as well.

But you're like, oh, are you an athlete? Are you a nerd? Are you a whatever, whatever? But around like seventh or eighth grade was the first time I saw. It was the FCA is what it was called at our school. It was a fellowship of Christian athletes. And I'll never forget it because if you were in the FCA, you behaved exactly like she behaved in this movie.

And they stuck together all through high school. And I don't know, they weren't necessarily getting more powerful, but they were certainly getting meaner as they got older and older. And I don't know why that transition was happening. But watching Emma Stone have to deal with this, watching Olive have to deal with like this part of school life was just really, really, really. interesting to me is really fun to watch.

And that's why it stood out. It's also, I think she's, Amanda Binds I'm talking about here, I think she thought she's just super fucking funny. She's a really good actress, like really good. That's why everything that happened to her is particularly sad. If she doesn't have, also she doesn't like her work, it doesn't have pride in it or even joy from it. That really bums me out because she was a great actress.

Anyway, wish to the best to Amanda Binds. Amanda, what did you think of that character? Well, some of it just seems like plot necessity. a little bit in that you need to have a group of people who are going to be really a group of teenagers who are going to be really opposed to the fact that Emma Stone had sex once and going to be like very offended by that. And I, um, we are speaking in really broad stereotypes here. And I really do not want to dismiss anyone's like particular relationship to their faith or to the Christian faith. But there, there is a, we had FCA at my high school.

to it as well, Shed. Yeah, shout out the SCA, baby. And let me tell you, I got my sex education through the filter of a certain strain of Christianity that I didn't learn everything that I needed to know in high school. How about that? And I didn't really feel good about the process. And it took a long time to get it back. And so the other reality is, is that most teens, I think even 2010, like, are probably having sex. You know, I don't, it's just kind of, it happens. And so both because I think this movie is like does its best or at least at times nods to the scarlet letter

and kind of like you know the puritanical heritage but also just because you need a type of people who believably would be outraged about this I think like I understood the character and I also think it's a way to actually

make the character itself separate from like the kind of outraged ideology. So it was okay to me. Not okay, but like I understood the choice. How about that? I just like, I wish you guys could have been in these sex ed classes. Like at one point, they just like held up a rose and were like every time like you have sex, they just like would tear a pedal off the rose. Like I'm not. Incredible. Incredible. I don't know. Anyway, that's my answer, Julia. Why do you not? Why do you not like this performance? It's just super funny. I like the performance a lot.

I'm very pro-Amanda Binds. Seriously, she's very funny. As a child on Nickelodeon, she was very funny. She's great. I love Manda Bines. I really wish her the best. I hope she's doing okay. I think the Marianne character,

it just bothered me that, like, her, that this character's personal ideology was tied to her Christianity. Whether that's accurate or not, I actually can't say. That's, I have the opposite experience. Like, I'm from the Upper West Side, very Jewish.

I went to a public, very large public. school for high school. Like I didn't have an experience with people whose Christianity really guided their positions on sex personally in high school. And so to me, it just felt like a stereotyping of Christians. And I was just like, did she have to be so outwardly Christian for her to be so uptight and such like a busy body who's policing how other people act? Because that I definitely am familiar with. I think we all are people who are, you know, policing other people's behavior. But I just,

I guess I feel like in a lot of media, like Christianity just gets a really bad rap. And I don't know why I feel this so strongly, but it really struck me. And I was just like, I'm totally on board minus like the naming of religion. I'm going to email you an application so you could join the FCA. Like you'd be like their postgraduate chapter, the chairman. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. I can tell already you're going to love it.

I do think that it's about, I mean, it's a serious. Like it is a stereotype and to the, you're pointing out a stereotype. Like we should especially be aware of all the negative ones. I think it just also illuminates like the fundamental problem that this movie mostly solves and gets away with. Well, there are several. But it's just that that the loss of virginity of this one like very like smart and attractive and you know, that any of this would be a big deal. And that teens would freak out about this and that this would become, number one, that this would be a scandal in the way that it is. And number two, that it wouldn't get shut down immediately because it's all happening on Facebook. And number three, that it also wouldn't get a lot uglier because of, like, bullying. I think they are making a lot of shortcuts sort of that mostly work. But if you think too hard about any of it, it absolutely falls apart. The lack of bullying is a really interesting point. Like, I don't think you make a teen.

movie in 2020 without addressing bullying in some way. But that's just like not even a concept in this movie. Like it's about keeping up appearances and there's a lot about like gossip and how misinformation spreads. But like the biggest slight in this movie is that you don't remember someone or you like ignore them. But like active bullying outside of what Marianne is doing with her with her group. It's not even called bullying. And I don't think it is portrayed in the same sort of like with the same sort of insidiousness that we understand bullying to be today. No, it's not, but she's very clearly the bully of the movie. But the thing of it is, a really interesting version of this movie or a piece of this movie,

rather, is that the Olive character is just like unfazed by it. Amanda Binds is trying. Marianne is trying to, like, put her face in the mud. And Olive is just like, get the fuck out of here. You're like a total dork. I don't need your approval. And that has been like a continuation of the like the Tracy Flick character that we have seen just grow and grow all the way after like the most recently book smart with Beanie Felsian's character. Just like they're they're stronger now.

The people who used to get ignored, that's like the thing she mentions in the movie, they just don't care about the stuff that maybe they used to care about before. 10 years ago, oh, reading too far into this, maybe that's this. Maybe that's them saying 10, 15, 20 years ago, this character here would have had all of the power. But in this one, she's trying to exert it and she's not given any of it. Boom. I did it. I read too far into it. I felt good.

I feel good. No, but I think that's so important, though, because that's also so central to the olive character that and so central to this movie being enjoyable, like a lot of very serious things happen in this movie and like you never feel bad. Yeah. And you're never honestly worried about any of the characters, even possibly when you should which is like, I would like to nominate my age the worst, which is the whole Mr. and Mrs. Griffiths and Micah plotline,

which is when the guidance counselor gives a student who is of age. And like, even this within the movie is knowing because she's yelling again and again, it's legal. It's of age, which I think you're supposed to know she's doing a bad thing. But like she gives the student chlamydia and then a teacher. And as a result, her marriage with the. teacher played by Thomas Hayden, Her Thomas Hayden Church ends. That was pretty weird.

Super weird. It's super weird. And I don't like, again, I don't want to get to puritanical because I have learned the lessons of this movie. And also, I do think that, like, the movie presents that this is wrong. The movie is, like, actually pretty clear on telegraphing its morals. But it's just kind of unnecessary. Like I don't really need the marriage plot between Mr. and Mrs. Griffith. And I definitely like don't need the weird chlamydia thing.

And also like giving a student chlamydia is that's, that's not good. That's terrible. That's the only time where I'm just like this. I really, really, I don't feel good about this. And but that also speaks to how the rest of the movie just kind of skates through some sticky issues. And the way that it can skate through it is because Olive is like, I'm fine. And if I'm fine, then you can be fine too.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. My, what change is the worst? Wait, do you have a list, Juliet? That way I don't miss any. I was just going to say, like, along those lines, the person who I ultimately, like, have the most sympathy for, and maybe this is just telling on myself, is Thomas Hayden Church's character. I just feel really bad for him.

I'm like, everyone else is fine, except for this guy. Everyone else just keeps out going. But his marriage is ruined. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. No, I, you know how I feel bad for is Chip. that's Olive's little brother, his adopted little brother. Not a developed character.

The first time Stanley Tucci makes an adopted joke and you're like, this kid's maybe like 10 years old. He's probably not going to keep up with this conversation. Like the level of jokes these people are making. I don't know that this is like the best way to handle this right now. And then he does it a couple more times. There's one line where they're sitting there and he asked him like, so where are you from originally this sort of thing.

And like that to me felt less like he's. he's having a conversation with this kid and more like he's having a conversation with the audience. Yeah. And I was like, well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. Yeah. I also, um, kind of related. I felt all of the stuff like they were trying, you know, I felt that everything related to, um,

Huckleberry Finn was super weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, definitely. Yes. 100%. You know, Huckleberry Finn is about Huck running away with Jim.

And it's a messed up book to begin with that. has some academic value. You know, it's still taught. The first reference to it is, I believe Olive says something along lines of like, it doesn't apply because she doesn't know anyone who has like snuck off with a hulking black man. And then it comes back around at the end to talk about

how Brandon has like fled the small town with like his black boyfriend. And I thought it was like just a really offensive. it's really offensive on a number of levels. And it also, like, I think to your point, Shea, like, the sort of dehumanizing of the two black men in this movie then becomes really clear. And Huck Finn is really, like, it's, like, fairly complex. And, like, I guess, like, I understand why it's still taught. But for the takeaway to be that, like, it's about, like, some white kid who, like, just kind of goes off secretly with, like, a threatening black man is a really fucked up. bizarre way to characterize that famous novel.

And I was like, what the fuck the first time? And then when it comes back as a punchline at the end, I was just like, what is this? It's really weird. They kept on pumping that whale. It was weird. 100% agree with that. And in terms of going back and being like, hmm, some parts of this script just do not work. That's what I was talking about.

I essentially agree with you. It just doesn't. It's not what you, it's not good. No, it's not. Um, that just was such a bizarre, like very small piece of this movie that easily could have been edited out. If someone been like, this is, this is wrong. Um, but I think it just, it's, it's a part of what you were saying, Shea as well. Yeah. All right.

Should we get into casting what ifs? Please do. Yes. Are there any? There aren't that many. It came across two. Number one, Logan Lerman audition for Brandon, which is the character, um, who I'd like to discuss when we get to the next award, but it's played by Dan Bird. Brandon is the gay kid that she begins the ruse with of,

having the fake sex scene at the party, which maybe we should have mentioned to what age is the worst. Really weird. That whole thing was really weird. But it's so central to the movie. You kind of have to accept it. So yeah, Logan Lerman audition for that. And I think it would have been so different.

I mean, that character who ended up getting is named Dan Bird. And he's like so perfect for that role. So that would have been super strange. The other one totally makes sense. Jennifer Lawrence auditioned for the role of Olive. Yeah. Yeah. See, checks out.

I'm a big Jennifer Lawrence fan. I don't know that she can do this role. I agree. I agree. I don't know. I don't know you can hit the right frequencies that we need here. Emma Stone is already straining the I'm not the center of the high school experience,

um, believability index to like, as far as it can go in this particular movie. And I think Jennifer Lawrence, I, I don't want to say that Jennifer Lawrence can't get weird. I mean, I've read a lot about her Kim, you know, Kardashian's tent while filming mother. I think everybody has, has has shades and different experiences. But I think that she is, she's so at ease. Like that is kind of the, one of the main appeals to me of the Jennifer Lawrence experience that it would hard, it would be hard to believe her that she's having a hard time in any way in high school. What it is, what it is for me is Jennifer Lawrence has this very unique ability to, how do you describe it?

With Emma Stone, all of the insults just sort of roll off her back very much. She's just like, it doesn't bother me at all. With Jennifer Lawrence, when I see stuff like that happen, it feels to me always like, like a tiny piece of it penetrates her shell. It's like she absorbs some of it. And I think that that makes the movie a little less fun to watch. If the character in there, you know secretly this person probably had their feelings hurt when this other person

said this thing or this other stuff is going on. Because it's very rarely, do they make it in the movie feel like Emma Stone is dealing with the fallout, with the like emotional fallout of all of this stuff that's happening? It's usually like the practical fallout that she is having to deal with. Jennifer Lawrence would have, I think. think absorbed a little too much for me to like watch it without any real guilt in my bones. I think that Shay, you got at it really early in this episode where you're saying that Emma Stone does Goofy really well. And I think that Jennifer Lawrence would like to do Goofy well,

but it just comes off as like untoward in some way or like, I just don't think she has, I think when Jennifer Lawrence goes for Goofy sometimes, it feels like sloppy. And Emma Stone has this physical comedy that allows her to play goofy in a more convincing way. Whereas Jennifer Lawrence, I just feel like has a little bit more of like a regal quality to her that when she goes forward, it feels like she's like slumming it in a weird way. I don't know. All right. That's a really weird way of describing Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence.

I mean, no offense to either of them. I like them both. But I just feel like she couldn't, she couldn't have done it in the same way. Yeah. I agree. That sounds right. I think that this is a case of like, some roles are for Jennifer Lawrence

that Emma can't do. Some roles are for Emma Stone that Jennifer can't do and that's just what it is. Do you guys think that Emma Stone could have been in Silver Linings Playbook?

Yes. I do. I do. I do that Jennifer Lawrence could have been in crazy stupid love. Yes. Absolutely.

Do you think, I'm trying to think, do you think that Jennifer Lawrence could have been in La La Land? No. No. I think that... I think that...

So there's just a fun game. I'm having a good time right now. But the Lala Land is interesting because Emma Stone also has to sing and dance in that, which obviously there's like the literal kid Jennifer Lawrence sing and dance, which is she's never tried before. You know, I don't want to say that she. Hey, hey, hey, hey, she dances in Silver Lighting's Playbook. That's true.

I did forget about that. Okay. But I think there's your answer right there. but there is a performativeness, which is normally a word that's used pejoratively. But in this case, I just think that there's like, Shea, it's a little bit what you said in the scene of, you know, suddenly Emma Stone just like turns her eyes on and you know that she's like, she's doing a bit and she can sell it that is a part of the Emma Stone quality. And I think works in this movie because she has to do all the numbers and the webcam. And it also works in La La Land. And Jennifer Lawrence is a more like instinctive naturalistic actress, which is not to say that they can't either, can't do those either qualities.

But I don't really think of Jennifer Lawrence. Like when she's being performative, she's like being performative. You can you can tell that she's trying if that makes sense. Sure. Yeah, it does. I think if we need an example of a movie that Jennifer Lawrence can do that Emma couldn't do, it's got to be hunger games. I don't think that she could have. slid in.

Like it would have been, oh, like it doesn't bother her as much as it needs to is what it probably would have felt like. I think also X-Men. I just like, we're going to super hero.

Oh, yeah. That's true. That's a good one. That's a good one. I could see Jennifer Lawrence maybe being Gwen Stacy, but I could not see Emma Stone in the X-Men new class,

which I really enjoy. Those movies are great. Yeah, that's great. That's a good call. Marvel's Avengers is an action-adventure game where a young Kamala Khan must reassemble the Avengers

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Shay, I'm curious who it is for you. I have, okay, I have two, but if I have to pick one, the one I'm not going to pick is Malcolm McDowell. He plays the principal in the movie. Yeah, he's way too famous. That guy award. But it is also like, why is Malcolm McDowell the principal in this movie? I'm not mad to see him, but I'm just like, this is weird. What is Malcolm McDowell's first role that you think of every time you see him on your screen?

A clockwork orange. Oh my God, Amanda. Wow. What? We have like a totally opposite directions. I always think of Terrence from Entourage for some reason. Oh, that's funny. I just, I don't know.

I think it's his glasses is what it does it for me. That's really funny. For me, hmm, it's a good question. In my head, I've kind of combined him. Like, I know this is incorrect and I'll just say that I love this movie, so don't get mad at me. But in my head, he is just, Jeremy Irons and Die Hard 3. So I'm just like Die Hard 3.

All right. I don't know what it is for me. I don't know. I just feel like he's been in so many things. We're just like, why is Malcolm McDowell in this in like the last 15 years? But yeah, I don't know what my definitive role is for him. But anyway, we're not picking Malcolm McDowell.

Who are you picking, Shea? I got to go with Cam, the guy who plays Micah, Cam Gigandent. Gigandet, yeah. Gigandet, yeah. That's what I've always called him. I don't know. Who is he to you? I can't wait here.

For me, he's the bully and never back down. Fucking outstanding bully performance. Just great. He has this one scene in there where he is goading the guy into the fight at the party in front of everybody. As he's like taking his clothes off, he's totally handsome, totally ripped, very talented, and just like all of the most threatening things for me when I'm talking to another person. And so every time I see him in a movie, I don't know what it is.

I just go right back to that role, but I saw him pop up in here. He's very, it's a very small part in it. But I just, I love that guy. Shout out that guy. Amanda, what do you know Cam Giganday from? Twilight. He's just always like one of the Twilight guys. And he's somehow also like a that guy in Twilight to me.

And I never had Twilight. I was delighted to learn he was in it and part of the joke when they make a joke about Twilight in this movie. Yeah. The first Twilight's very good. I recommend it, Juliet. But there's also like a nice. I also want to pick him. I would have said Gigende,

but I don't really know why I'm trying to... That sounds way better. That sounds way better. Gigende sounds correct. I don't know. For me, he's Volcheck from the OC. He leads to Marissa's death. He gets...

That's solid. That's solid. That's solid. That's like one of the most important episodes of all time and all television ways when Marissa dies in season three of the OC and then, you know, Hallelujah plays. I mean, it's just absolutely epic.

So, I mean, I, yeah, he's, he's that guy. Another thing I like about him is our that guy is that so often that guy are men of a certain age, if you will. I think that's why we're also like, should it be Malcolm McDowell and it should not because Malcolm McDowell is really famous. But it's great to have a new generation that guy. Y'all that we're all picking Cam?

I am. I actually, I am not. I'm not thinking of him. I really, Cam is that guy to me. He is Volcheck. He's burned into my memory forever. However, I'm picking Dan Byrd. And I know that like the number.

two shouldn't necessarily get this, but as Brandon, I was like, oh, that guy. And that's because he plays a somewhat similar role in the Hillary Duff, Chad Michael Murray, Cinderella remake from a few years earlier. And I was just like, oh, him. And then I was just going through his IMDB. And like, he's in so much random stuff from the Oaths. And I just like this really capped off a decade of like, oh, that guy. That's a quick sidebar. Did either of you all watch the Duff? Of course. I did, actually. Okay. I, I've never, I never met anybody else who watched it, and I was hoping y'all had. It's great.

I'm a Mae Whitman fan over here, so. I just, right now as we started talking about, I started thinking about the monster voice scene. It makes me laugh every single time when the guy starts to walk away and she does the monster voice that whoa, whoa, whoa. It's great. It's great. Sorry.

Okay. Next. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got award for overacting. I want to throw out controversial opinion. You've been doing it all podcast long. Don't do it. Don't do this. Do it.

Do it. We're going to yell at you. Patricia Clarkson. Patricia Clarkson. Don't do it. Okay. Listen, I love the parents. I love them.

She just takes it too far in the scene where she's trying to find out if Brandon is gay or not. It's like we get it. Your cool hit mom. This is like a slight nod to mean girls. Amy Polar. Your dance is funny. I get it. But it's just a tad too much.

And I love Patricia Clark. and I really do. You know, I dated a homosexual once for a long time, actually. A long time. Dear God, dear Lord, tell me you did not marry and have children with him. No. No, no. Your father is as straight as they come.

A little too straight, if you know what I mean, girlfriend. I don't. Can you shut the door, please? Oh, oh, oh, oh. But I also, in that scene, the scene is just like, Emma Thompson is like, there's the door. Not Emma Thompson, I'm sorry, though I do love Emma. Thomas Thompson so much. That's just the peak Amanda Freudian slip of all time. Emma Stone is like,

there's the door, please leave. Like, it's acknowledging that she's being a little too much. I also think that this is a tricky award because being too much is like a part of this movie. Everyone is playing a little slight, like a slightly heightened stereotypical version of their characters because that's how you're supposed to like feel okay about it. If they're real people with real feelings if the insults can penetrate as Shayba speaking, then you don't feel okay

about this movie. So her being a little extra is okay with me. The person who's like an extra and I like don't really think we need it is Lisa Kudrow. And I say that with a lot of respect

for her. But when she's just yelling like, you made a decision or whatever. Like at the end, I'm just like, okay, all right. Let's play the Who Would You Believe game. Okay. Why don't you ask yourself

If you were an adult, who would you believe? Huh? Who would you believe? Who would you believe? Who would you believe? Who? It's a very fine line between being Vince and Hannah and being Deon Waiters. Because I also could, I think you could make the argument that she has just a great heat check in this movie.

Lisa Kudjo? Yeah. Okay. I enjoyed it. I don't think her character should be in this movie. So that might be part of my problem. Like, I just like, honestly, you don't need it. You don't need the chlamydia.

you don't need the marriage thing. You can still have like a movie with all of the themes going on. You don't even need the chlamydia to like resolve the plot. It's like things have gone far enough before Emma Stone is like, yes. Also like I'll take the fall for the chlamydia, you know? Relatedly, you also don't need Thomas Hayden Church. Like we don't need either of them, really. I think that's true.

The Thomas Hayden Church character, at least. least like relates to helps develop Olive as like a thoughtful student. And so, you know, there's the whole bit about how she's like, I, they shouldn't have watched the Jimmy Moore version of the movie that I should have watched the original. He's like, I know you read the book. And so that character at least serves to explore like the dichotomy between like who Olive is pretending to be and who she really is, which I think you kind of need for a lot of reasons. But I don't need to know about his. like sexless love life. And I don't like need him hitting on Lisa Kudrow at school. Like it's weird.

I guess it's supposed to make you like feel like sex is okay, um, which it is. Sex is okay, kids, if you're listening, just don't like fake sell it for Home Depot gift cards. But yeah, again, I just don't know why Lisa Kudra's of this movie. Here's, here's my theory on how all of this played out. I think they had the, they had the script. They wrote it out. They were like, we need, we need for Emma Stone to get in trouble in class to get sent to the office that will set all these things in motion, which means we need a teacher.

Oh, you know who has a great teacher voice, Thomas Hayden Church, and they went to him and they're like, hey, do you want to do this? And he looked at the script and he said, there's not enough in here for me to do this, add some more. And that's how he ended up in here. And that's how we ended up with that whole plotline.

He's the only one in the movie who's not doing like a hyperbole of somebody else. Like he's just being his normal self. I would say it's the opposite. I feel like, in fact, he's like very much, very demure, especially by his own standards. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

I like Thomas Hayden Church. Who doesn't, right? He's great. There's a great, great voice. For my, for my pick, I'm going to pick Stanley Tucci. For overacting? Yeah. Oh, my God.

Jesus Christ. Everyone is betraying me in this category. Only because, Julia, I picked Patricia Clarkson, who I think is great. And I'm trying, I would like to hurt her feelings the way that she has hurt mine. And it just seems like she would like that character. So that's my pick. Okay. All right.

Fair enough. I want to know everyone's Deon Waiter's pick. I mean, we're not coming to a consensus on, uh, overacting. It's fine. Shea, who do you have for the Deon Waiters Award? Patricia Clarkson. The icon, the legend. She was going for it.

A bunch of the stuff, you watch it now and you're like, it'd be cool if my mom never said any of this stuff to me. but to watch it happen with somebody else and it be like real awkward and goofy. She's great, especially because she is another one who I don't think I had like really bothered to learn about her career until I saw her in another thing. And this was in a, what was it, House of Cards. She plays a character named Jane Davis. And she is very much just like, she only speaks in riddles.

She's very threatening and intimidating, but without trying to be. and to see her, see this other version of her, I was just so excited. I was so pumped. So that's my pick. Wow. Okay. I mean,

I love Patricia Clarkson. Amanda, I don't think you do. Except for when you threw her under the bus in the last award, but that's okay. Thank you. Thank you. I can love her and acknowledge that she could have done better, you know?

That is true. In a lot of ways, that is how I also define love. So I understand that. You're very much, you got a Marianne vibe going on right now, Juliet. I just want to say, I just want to throw that out there.

I take that as a compliment since you liked her so much. I'm doing a co-award because these are made-up categories and I'm doing Patricia Clarkson and Stanley Tucci. And I would just like to say to both of you who picked them in the last category that that hurts me. Okay. Because these are some of the great movie parents and that, you know, they're together in most of their scenes. And I think like that chemistry is so instant. And they don't have that much to do. but you know who these people are and what this family is like

and how this family produces this character who can believably navigate ridiculous circumstances. So please respect Patricia Clarkson and Stanley Tucci. Thank you very much. I do. I do really like the part where they're doing the, like picking the movie for a family movie night. And then they say they do the whole thing about Stanley Tucci's character

gets to pick the movie because he's a family member of the week. The week. And it turns out Patricia Clarkson's character is like in charge of picking. they're just like, fuck the kids. Family member of the week, yeah. They like each other very much. It's great. It's great.

I'm picking Lisa Kudrow. I don't care what you say, Amanda. I just feel like I'm never unhappy when she's in a movie. I feel like she is very wisely, has never, like, tried to go for such a huge role outside of her range. And I just feel like this was like probably like two days of work for her. And she made an impact. And I like it.

I know. I mean, at some point, it's just funny. we can watch a great movie and just like see very different movies. That's exactly what I'm going to say. I will be quite honest before I rewatch this yesterday. I could not have like told you for sure that Lisa Kudrow or I'm going to say it, Amanda Binds were in this movie. And that's not to say that Amanda Bines is bad.

And I like, I agree that she's a gifted comedian. But it's just like that is not what the movie is about to me. And I just don't really think about those people. But that's okay because this podcast contains multitudes. Yeah, yeah. I also think like the way we've, it's totally true. And also the way that we talk about this movie

is very much as adults and not as teens who might be seen it. And like I, I'm just like, okay. I mean, I can't even speak to that. Why even try? But I think that is one of the reasons why it's so good is you can see a lot of different things.

Next, the recasting couch, which I'm at a loss. I don't, I just do not know who you would put in this role. I do not know. What do you think, Amanda? I have two ideas. Oh, wonderful.

And I don't know whether they're going to work. And typically, traditionally, I'm terrible at recasting because, and I also think that this is, this movie lives or dies by Emma Stone. So the first one, I think that this would be a different movie, but it could work. And I think if you tailor it to the actress in question, it could be updated. And that's Zendaya. Oh, that's strong. That's strong. And, you know, obviously she lives like through teenage hell and euphoria, but I was thinking a lot about her in the Spider-Man movies where she doesn't get enough to do.

But she has the same like kind of confidence and just like, I think you could put her in this role and still trust that everything is like, she's going to be okay and she's going to be able to navigate these circumstances, which is kind of what you need from the person in this role in the movie. You need to believe they're going to be okay. That's a great point. And someone with the confidence to not let the stuff get them down. Yeah. The other person, and I think she could do it, it might end up being an Emma Stone impersonation, which is not what you want, but she brings, like, some of the fire is Florence Pugh. And I'm just like, I'm a huge Florence Pugh fan.

So, there we go. Those are my ideas. Those are my ideas. Have a hard time. separating Florence Pugh from midsummer. I can't, I can't get there. So she's out from me. She's out from me. Zendaya, Zendaya is great.

I'm sorry, go ahead, Julia. I feel like with Florence Pugh, I guess this is a testament to her, but also perhaps not. I feel like every time I'm like, I need a young actress. What about Florence Pugh? In my mind, she's up for many roles.

She'll always be the loathsome Amy from little women henceforth. So that's a problem. Sure, but she also makes, Like, that's a justice for Amy movie. Like, you kind of, you believe in a character who has just been maligned, rightfully so, IMO, for hundreds of years. And then you put Florence Pugh in there and you're just like, oh, yeah, Amy's got some points.

And that's what you need in this. You need someone to be like, I'll have some points. I'll have some points. It was very smart to just let everyone lie for some gift cards. That's sound reasoning, you know? That's true. I think the Zendaya idea is really, really good. And by the way, they said,

they're doing a reboot slash spin-off of this movie that was said like a year ago. I don't know if that's true. That's excellent. Can I, I have one that I want to throw out here. One of my favorite actors, Isabella Monair. Do you all keep up with her?

She played, oh, she was, she was Dora. That's like her most famous role. Got it. And, and The Lost City of a Goal.

Really good. She's great in Instant Family, which is like a movie that was supposed to be bad, and it turned out it's really surprisingly charming. She's also in Sicario. They have the second one, Sicario. Nice.

But she can like, I think she can do all of this stuff that you need for this person to be able to do. And I don't know. I'm trying to buy up all of the Isabella stock that I can. All right. That's my pick.

She's in. Yes. Let's move on. Apex Mountain. Is this Emma Stone's Apex Mountain? Amanda, go ahead. I think, I know we relitigate this every time.

I think on paper, no. Because Emma Stone has like, this is when it starts for her. But then she has a very successful career over a decade and counting. And she does win an Oscar for La La Land. She's in movies that have a much bigger audience. She's in movies that are probably taken more, quote, capital S seriously. Though, again, I think that's unfair. And frankly, like Emma Stone should have been nominated for an Oscar for this role.

Let me redo the other people who are nominated because this would have been for 2010. So it was Natalie Porman won for Black Swan. Then it was Annette Benning for the kids are all right. Nicole Kidman for Rabbit Hole. Jennifer Lawrence, interestingly, for Winter's Bone. This was also the Jennifer Lawrence break through year. And Michelle Williams for Blue Valentine. I like all of these actresses.

They've all been nominated for Oscars like 45 times. And I don't remember anything about Rabbit Hole with all respect to Nicole Kidman. And Annette Benning deserves an Oscar, but the kids are all right, has really not stayed with me. So I think we could have made room for Emma Stone. However, the Oscars don't really acknowledge comedy. It's one of their major problems. So I think ultimately it's not technically her apex mountain, but she doesn't get to her apex mountain without this movie. How about that?

I agree with that. One of my favorite things to do when preparing for a rewatchables is taking the star's name and Googling Vanity Fair. so like Emma Stone Vanity Fair. Emma Stone's Vanity Fair profile came the following year. And I think it was the October cover of 2011 because that was her big year of the help and friends with benefits. And of course, crazy stupid love. And so I think to your point, this, Emma Stone, as we know her now, probably does not happen without EZA. But I think Emma Stone's fame does still happen because she's just obviously undeniable.

I just don't think you can make the case that this is. anywhere close to her apex mountain. What is it? What's her apex mountain? When is it? It's got to be La La Land, right? I think it's probably La La Land. I think after she wins that Oscar.

Right, but it's like five minutes, right? Because she wins the Oscar for La La Land. And then literally the next award is the Moonlight La La Land debacle. And it gets completely overshadowed. And, you know, a lot of things were overshadowed that night, among them, Moonlight winning Best Picture, which was an amazing thing. But it is, it's amazing how short that victory lap was for Emma Stone just because of how it happened. Oh, no, I disagree.

I think when, when she walked out of that building with that statue in her hand, she could walk into any room and get any movie made immediately after that. I think that that's why. And so she picked Cruella. Cruella is going to be awesome. I don't care what I'm saying. I mean, just tell me how it works for you. Like, just think in your mind, okay, cruella is literally. 101 Dalmatians is a movie or a concept about a bunch of dogs who are trying to escape

this evil lady who wants to make coats out of their fur. Yeah. Like, and it's the, Cruella is the origin story of this lady. I have some concerns. Okay. But I, the thing is, here's the, here's the, here's the, here's the, the pitch for it. Hey, do you want to see a movie where Emma Stone is evil? Fuck, yeah, I do.

Yeah, I do. I do. I absolutely do. But this is also a movie for children. So that's my problem. That's okay. I don't know. Maybe they'll figure it out.

What was the villain in Miss Trunchable? Terrifying. Still terrifying as an adult. I think that's all true. I think that's true. And I think also to bring it back to EZA, if you told me that they're going to make a movie about a teen girl who lies about having sex with every person in class for money in order to make a point about reputations

and it all happens on Facebook, I would have been like, yikes, that sounds really depressing. And they made it work. So maybe they can make creella work. But I'm just saying. Boom.

She can do it all. She could do it all. Did y'all like the favorite? I hope you loved the favorite. Oh, that's good. We should do that one. That's a good movie.

That's a good one. I also really like crazy stupid love. I think it's always, she's like really likable in that movie. Of course. Full of people you want to root for. Yeah. It's just,

also Emma Stone and not. role is playing person who is just completely overwhelmed to the point of speechlessness by Ryan Gosling. So Emma Stone is all of us in that movie. And then at the end gets to do the dirty dancing lift. I just, I also am speechless after those scenes. 2011 to 2014 is like pretty amazing for her. She had the three 2011 movies. Then 2012, the amazing Spider-Man. 2013, she's in Gangster Squad, which wasn't, you know, was not critically acclaimed, but like, I'll have attention. She's back in Spider-Man in, 14 plus she's in Birdman, which I also liked, though I feel like it's no longer like

thought of pawn favorably. But I think her contribution to Birdman is still thought of very favorably. Yeah. And then she's in Aloha, which is just a screeching halt. And it hasn't quite been the same. I mean, she had La La Land, but I don't know. I think that the, I think EZA through Birdman was like a pretty impressive run for a young actress.

So good job by her. Not our Apex Mountain though. You can't make the case as anyone's Apex Mountain, which I think speaks to like a pretty interesting movie where it's like, this is a pivotal and crucial movie that we are inducting into some sort of canon,

but it's not anyone's peak. Yeah. It's probably the director Will Gluck's peak, in my opinion. That's true. It's like a good movie. And from that, and as you mentioned,

he makes friends with benefits and then he does the live action Peter Rabbit movies. And encore on Disney Plus. I think he produces with Kristen Bell. Great show. Shea, have you watched Encore on Disney Plus? I have not. Oh, my God.

I think you might like it. What is it about? We can talk about it later. We can talk about it later. It's high school classes reuniting like anywhere from five to 30 years later to put on the musical they all did when they were in high school together. Oh, my God. I love it. Check it out.

It's okay. All right. It's time to pick some nits. This can get lengthy. So let's just go with some highlights. My number one knit that I need to pick, it's two tied together. the way that Olive remembers eighth grade, which was just a few years ago,

is so completely stupid that I can't get over it. She's so surprised when Dan Humphreys remembers things that they share in eighth grade. And like, that was like three years ago for them. Like, who was surprised? And relatedly, the fact that they cast younger actors but use the voices of, well, used Emma Stone's voice is so stupid that I just don't understand what they were thinking. I do not get it.

This is one of, I completely agree with this. And this is one of the, my main complaints of all, like, teenage and high school type movies is when they have to flash back to like, when I was in sixth grade, and I was just like, I can't go with, I'm a grown up. I can't. We can't like be flashing back to the nostalgia of a 10 year old. I can't do it. It's really. It's really weird. It's also just like, to be like, oh, you remember that we almost kissed in a closet. That would be like a traumatic event probably for that young man of like not being able to like land the kiss at his young age. So like, of course he remembers it. Everyone remembers they're like making out trauma from when they were in sixth and seventh grade. Yeah. And that was eighth grade. Even even more recent. I just, I cannot abide. Drives me crazy.

Okay. That's just really most important for my list. I also want to note that when they go. to the party and Olive's like, I just put on my mom's dress. It's like a really hot dress that's tiny. And I don't believe that the lovely Patricia Clarkson character would have that dress. Yeah, I agree with this. That was bizarre. Amanda, I know you've got so many. Let's hear it. Well, speaking of the party, basically the minute after she says, I put on my mom's dress, you know, so she arrives with Brandon is the guy's name. Yeah. And they're pretending to be drunk and pretending to be together. And they're at the party of like the popular rich girl in high school, which is a common

trope. And she asks the popular rich girl if there's like a quote room that she can use, just very clearly to have sex in. And the popular rich girl is like, yeah, my room is right down the hall. It was just in the middle of telling me this really funny thing, which is really funny. And I was wondering if it was like a room where you could go. or I could finish telling me that thing that's funny. You know what I mean?

You can use my room. Down the hall to the left. What entitled Rich Girl in high school? It's going to be like, yeah, use my room to have sex. Yeah. What are we talking about here? Go for it. Nope.

Not believable. That was really weird. The whole party scene is really weird. Yeah. Shea? What about you? you. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. No problem.

Yeah, I think we are all sort of aligned here. The party scene is the trickiest one to get through without being like, hold on a second. Like one sentence difference here changes everything. And yeah, sending her, it's not, it's, it's the line when they run off and then she sort of realizes and she's like, don't mess up my sheets. And you're like, what? Right. What is going on here? Like, this doesn't belong in this part of this thing, no thing.

I think that's, that's probably what it would be. for me. Also, all the sounds not believable. I mean, high school kids, presumably other people at the party have had sex so they would know that it's like, which like I'll give the film a little credit for like that's part of the point. Because at some point, the reality of like a gay high school student pretending to be straight and pretending to have sex with another girl in order to like get through high school is depressing. Probably it's like, it's like, that's heavy stuff. also in 2010, like, I don't know, even there you would think that some kind of like progressive or just kind of general social values had been updated. So it's all tough and kind of unbelievable. But so the fact that they are playing into the ridiculousness of it is I think supposed to kind of help you suspend the disbelief and suspend some of that. Like it is like really stupid and they're and they're playing it for comedy. And like I think that they are both pretty funny. in it, but it's, but the situation itself is very strange.

That brings up another one that we, that maybe doesn't belong here. Maybe it should have gone in the, uh, which age, the worst part. But when he's like trying to convince her about, about like, oh, just do this, do this, do this. Yeah. And he's like, high school sucks. I don't, I don't know what I'm going to do. Or like if it doesn't, if this doesn't happen, I don't know what I might do or something like that.

You're like, well, hold on. We got real dark, real fast here. Maybe we should like reel it in just a tiny, tiny, tiny. amount. It skirts around some darkness. It lands the plane by never going there, but it's undeniable. That's for sure. And then I guess the most obvious one is probably like, these are what 11th grade students?

Yeah. This is like somebody has sex. You hear somebody had sex in 11th grade. That's not like a big piece of news. Yeah. Just like, oh, okay, thanks. I'm on my way to class, whatever. Checked out.

Yeah. I want to add one more that all of this, at some point, Mr. Griffiths, the Thomas Hayden Church character is like, yeah, it's all over Facebook. I mean, listen, as soon as all of these rumors and bullying show up on Facebook and, like, authority figures become aware of it, it's all getting shut down immediately. I think she says that this happens over the span of two weeks. I'm giving it two days. Like, everyone intervenes and shuts this stuff down. The only way that that's possible is if in 2010 parents still don't. know how to use Facebook, but they acknowledge that the teacher does know how to use Facebook. So I think, like, even if the, they're trying to avoid, like, the, the, the bullying subplot. And again, avoid trying to avoid all the darkness that is definitely like, possible and realistic in high school. And again, like, this is supposed to be an idealized version of high school and a stereotypicalized version of high school. And it's not there, they've managed to skate around most of the darkness.

But like if it's on Facebook, everyone's, everyone's getting shut down. Totally. That's a good point. The Facebook stuff not as well done as YouTube, but let's keep it moving. On to best quote. There's a lot of good quips. As previously discussed, Olive just has so many. I mean, I think she knows.

She just, she lands the most. I mean, one that she allegedly Emma Stone improvised when she said, when Rihanna doesn't believe she's not upset about her one-night sand. She said, yes, I believe so if I was the gossip girl in Sweet Valley of the Traveling Pants, which is just putting together so many tropes. Good job by her. That's a pretty good one. Also, all the different ways she refers to gossip. I mean, those are all bangers. There's so many. Also, I think that Thomas Hayden Church early on in reference to Facebook says, that would be when everyone is putting everything up on Facebook.

I don't know what your generation's fascination is with documenting your every thought, but I can assure you they're not all diamonds. Roman is having an okay day and bought a Coke zero at the gas station. Raise the roof. Who gives a rat's ass? He got a Coke zero again?

Ah, that Roman. Thank you. Someone had to say it. Someone had to say it. What do you guys have on? your list. Shay, you go ahead, because I'm not sure I have any one. So many of them are like, are references and kind of like the, the olive character being

very witty and throwing in jokes to things that teenagers, like, definitely don't. Well, I don't know. I shouldn't shortchange teenagers. Maybe some of the teenagers are talking like an Eric Sorkin show or a Gilmore Girls show right now. But, you know, it has that kind of dense quality where if I read it to you out of context, you'd be like, okay, cool. That sounds annoying.

but they're very funny when Emma Stone says them. The line in the movie that I like the most, but this is not because it's like just an especially clever line. I think this is just like a fun thing is when the guy at the bookstore, when she asks it, is there a religion section? It's right over there. Can I help you with something? It's a Bible.

Oh, that's in bestsellers right next to Twilight. That was a good one. Yeah, that's just like a funny little joke, but also I really like it because I like to be able to to be like, oh, you know, you know, what's funny about this, this guy in the movie was also in the movie Twilight. Like this nerdy little goofy things like that. Are you that person that will do that to anyone watching just being like just so you know he was in Twilight? Okay. So here's the thing.

Yes, I'm going to do that. But I'm going to wait until the movie is over to do that. I don't want to interrupt the flow of the movie. But that's just like an urge that I have in my nerdy little body is to do that. Oh, did you know? Did you know? So that's my pick. My favorite Olive Quip is when she refers to gossip and how it travels as the accelerated velocity of terminological and in exactitude.

I thought that was just a pretty good one. Yeah. She's throwing some stuff out there. We're like, all right. She's sharp. Go for it. Very sharp. This is, this is like my favorite thing about this character.

And this is a thing that has happened to me as my kids, the twins are now 13 years old. They're approaching. Oh, my God. They're teenagers. I know. them is as tall as me already. Oh my God. They're just like big kids, but they are grade eight now.

They're approaching all of these conversations. And so when I'm watching these sorts of movies now, I really greatly appreciate the characters in these movies who you are just confident are going to make their way through whatever situation they're in. Like the really sort of Emma Stone in this movie, Beanie Felstein and Book Smart, Ferris Bueller, these sorts of like, they're going to be okay. That's a common fear among all parents. It's like you're just worried about your kids in the real world.

And to get to watch somebody who you know is going to be all right. It's like a nice little bit of relief. I really like that. That's beautiful. Thanks. Could this be remade as a 10 episode Netflix show? Obviously, yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Come on. 100%. I think it could be remade as a Netflix movie. I think if you turn this into 10 hours, then the suspension of disbelief and the kind of everything's going to be okay quality of it becomes a lot harder the lot the longer that you extend like the situation that's all i would say and maybe maybe there's a version of this where you do kind of explore all of the darkness or the kind of bigger problems yeah it would definitely be darker but that that just becomes a different a different thing yeah i mean the truth is this movie just go straight to netflix as a movie now this something that shay got at earlier, all the recent teen movies are just Netflix releases. Yes. And so does this movie become a Netflix movie and a hit?

100%. Does it launch a career? I don't know. Has Netflix launched a career yet? Within the ecosystem of Netflix, yes. Like no Centeno. Yeah. And the stranger things like Millie Bobby Brown, who now has her own movie where she's playing

the sister of Sherlock Holmes, I think. You guys know about this. Inola Holmes, I, I don't really know. I think whether the movie becomes, whether it's a movie for adults as well as kids is a major question. Because I think Shay identified something else, which is like this is one of these movies where there are jokes and themes that you can watch as an adult as well as being a teenager and be really invested in and think it works very well. And I think some of the Netflix movies have just identified their teen audience and they're directing it to. the teens. So whether you get something that say the three of us would spend two hours dissecting from the perspective of grownups, I don't know. A quick question. When you guys were watching the teen movies from the late 90s and early 2000s, were you watching these first? Were you watching these in a movie theater? And secondly, when you went to the movie theater, was it like you

were with your friends and you were watching them or you were with your family and you were watching them? Yes, I saw him in the movie theater and I went with friends. I so clearly remember going to see Bring It On and she's all that with friends and Honey starring Jessica Alba. Those were like the big three. It really changes for me. I have a 1995 was clueless and I went with my mother and I will never forget.

God bless my mother who doesn't really care about movies that much but knew to take me to this one. And that was pretty formative for me. And then I vividly remember seeing like, I remember seeing legally blonde. with two friends. And that would have been like 2001. So I think it was really just a function of age. And my parents enforced the 13 of the PG-13.

Did they really? Well, I think they were more just kind of like rules followers. And so they were like, if you're 12, we can't drop you off at the mall by yourself to go see a PG-13 movie because they won't let you in. I don't really think anyone in like the Atlanta movie theater circuit was really checking the IDs on the 12-year-olds. but my parents thought that they were.

So the first movie I saw with like boys and girls. Like it was like a co-ed group outing was Marvin's room, which is so depressing. Wow. Wow. Who picked that one? Oh, that was that was very formative. But from there got happier, more positive. I swear.

What about you, Shea? I went and watched these ones at the movie theaters with with like friends or with the girlfriends at the time. But I was thinking about it recently because all of these movies are now, they just go straight to Netflix and you don't have to go to a theater anymore. And so you're not watching them with your friends. And they're not as much fun if you don't have your group altogether. Like I couldn't, I remember going to watch She's All That and they were like fucking 14 of us or something. Because there's just like, oh, this seems like a cool thing and whatever. It's starring people who are about our age. Let's go check it out.

I couldn't imagine watching that just by myself on the couch or on my phone in my bedroom. I think it changes the experience. It changes the way you connect to those movies, possibly. But I've just been thinking a bunch about that. I can't believe Marvin's room was like the one of the ones. Shay, how do your twins watch these movies? Like, do they talk about them on their friends? Like, do they text about them?

Is there like an online aspect to how you co-watch or they're just consuming solo? They don't watch. They don't watch movies at all. They might every once in a while watch like an anime that all of the friends started talking about and they want to be in on the conversation when they're playing Fortnite or Fall Guys or whatever. But they've not asked me to go to the movies to go watch a thing or they're not like checking Netflix for stuff. I don't think that that comes until maybe like 16 or 17 probably would be my guess. But right now it's not even a thing.

Damn. That's kind of sad. I mean, that's it. Movies and the future of movies is another separate sad conversation. Separate a separate podcast. Check out the big picture. Probably unanswerable questions. Number one on my minds.

Why don't we get to meet her brother in college? I mean, come on. Was that number one? That's number one for me, yeah. All right. I didn't even think about it. Like, after they mentioned it, I didn't, was not like a thing. The fault criminal which this movie begins.

What's number one for you, She? Number one, and I don't know if maybe I just missed it because the man who kept talking about it earlier, but I don't know who gave who chlamydia in the movie. Is there like a line when they say this person gave it to me? Yeah, like Kim Giganday or Gigonde. Gigonde, I love it. Cam Gigante is like, you gave me chlamydia. There's that scene where he's walking through Ohio and he's like talking on the phone.

And he's like, I don't even care that you gave me chlamydia because I love you. I love you and I want. And my mom is yelling, but I don't care. And then it cuts to Lisa Kudrow being on the other end of the phone. I think you're also meant to understand that since he is like, he's in the Christian community and having sex with anyone is defined as a betrayal, he's probably not having sex with a lot of people. So then it just becomes like a numbers thing about.

Yeah. But then I have to wonder where did Lisa Kudrow get it. I did. Okay. So that opens up that door. Like she must have been cheating. on poor Thomas Hayden Church for a while. Yeah.

But also, I remember the first time watching the movie and he's, when he's having that conversation, because they don't show you who he's talking to until the very end. I thought he was talking to Amanda Bines. And I thought, because that was like the thing in school with the FCA. They're very much like, don't do these things, don't do these things. And then you find out they're all having sex with each other or they're all drinking privately at their thing. I forgot all about that part of it.

I don't know. I was just wondering about that. That was my one question, but I must have just missed that thing. Amanda, any cues from you? Really think so. I mean, this movie doesn't work if they don't sew it up pretty tightly. So I'm not just like, I'm not worried about the psychological trauma on afflicted on Olive or any of her, like, her fake partners. She's good.

Yeah, the movie is just like, it's okay. So you can enjoy this. They're going to be fine. You know, whether they are going to be fine. Again, we can't go. we can't go down that road. I hope they're all okay. We're going to talk about who won the movie.

It's not a competition. Before we get there, I just want to say who lost the movie. It's a resounding Penn Badgley. We have not felt compelled to discuss him like at all in this podcast. Yeah, that's true. That is true. I thought you were going to say Patricia Clarkson again.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I was going to lose it. Poor Penn Badgley. At least he's got you. He doesn't need us to talk about him right now. Yeah, he's fine. Who won the movie? I mean...

Emma Stone, 2010, you are the cornerstone of our teen movie rebuild. What else can we say? What else can you say? Just great. Just great. Thank you, Ms. Emma. Give this woman a retroactive Oscar. Let's get her at least a nomination.

Yeah. Thank you, Shay. Thank you, Amanda. For more with both of them, check out Shea on The Connect and Amanda on the big picture. I'm Juliet and the rewatchables. We'll be back in just a few days' time.