The Rewatchables - ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin form an unnamed secret society to rewatch the 1999 psychological drama Eyes Wide Shut, starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, and directed by Stanley Kubrick. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Music: Evan Campbell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You might remember we launched the rewatchables 1999 special series back in 1999, celebrating a bunch of 1999 films. Those podcasts were on Luminary for the last four years. and now they're coming back here to the ringer. And we're going to dole them out. I'm not even going to drop them week after week after week. They're just going to come flying out every once in a while. Like this one right here, which we taped four years ago.

It is eyes wide shut. One of the most fun rabbit hole movies that have ever existed. A movie that even since we taped this has probably even gotten weirder to reflect on and even more stories have come out. But we brought out all the big guns for this one. Brian, Sean Fentasy, Mallory Rubin, myself, we put on our mess. I didn't really have my imitation of the Eyes Wide Shut, that kind of enigma-type voice by them.

But this podcast goes in a variety of directions. Some of them aren't appropriate. This is definitely a rated our podcast. Proceed with caution. Eyes Wide Shut right now. I do love you and you know there is something very important we need to do as soon as possible. What's that? It's an eyes wide shut, rewatchable's 1999 podcast right now.

What's the big mystery? Bill, I have seen one or two things in my life. Never anything like this. You know there's no way on earth. You're going to leave your life without taking me with you. Maybe it's a bad, bad thing. They did it a bad bad. Chris Ryan is here.

Shot fantasy and Mally Rubin in costume. Bill? Bill Simmons? You can take the mask off down, Mallory. Jesus. You committed the bit. Please take the mask off. How do they do it in the movie? They are hard to breathe in these, let alone.

It's a mind-hunter mask. It's not meant to be for eyes wide shut. Oh, Mallory overheated. It's not going to be the only time in this podcast. Now I have an excuse. The IMDB synopsis of this movie is A New York City Doctor embarks on a harrowing night-long odyssey of sexual and moral discovery after his wife reveals a painful secret to him.

You good with that, Chris? Do you think they should have named this movie Chase the Night? Chase the Night.com. Directed by Worldwide West. I watched this this morning and it was a weird start of the morning. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a weird movie. I can't believe we're doing a rewatchable as about it, but I also feel like we're doing 15, 1999 movies for this podcast series. And I don't know how this is in one of them, Sean Fantasy. Well, it's a great opportunity to talk about one of the greatest directors ever, one of the greatest movie stars ever, one of the greatest actresses ever, one of the greatest on-screen couples ever. And one of the weirdest movies ever. And a great opportunity to make me uncomfortable. And marriage.

Mathery, it's impossible to make you uncomfortable. I feel great. I feel great. No, this movie delights me. From start to finish in nearly every respect, it is scintillating, it is titillating, it is provoking. physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, intellectually. I love it. Chris Ryan, do you watch this with your wife this week? I did not. We realized that she and I was talking last night. We realized we've never watched it as a couple.

Good idea. Oh, I enjoyed watching this with my husband. Really? Did he enjoy watching it with you? How did the after show go? Talk the marriage. Talk to marriage. It was great. You know, we, we discussed filmmaking. We discussed

Tom Cruise. We discussed the outline for this podcast and the categories for this podcast and then the things that we left undiscussed

unspoken are really the questions that the movie explores. You know? And I think that's a good strategy. There was an HBO series called, Tell Me, You Love Me,

that I think only lasts of a year. I remember that. And that was the same kind of thing where it's like, your relationship had to be in pretty

good standing as you watch this or else you start side eyeing whoever you're with. Do you enjoy this movie? I think it's so fucking weird and so out there. And so every time I watch it, I pick up new things. And it's online.

I mean, not online. It's on cable a lot, which I think is weird in itself because it's two hours and 40 minutes and I don't That's why it's weird. I don't, yeah, I don't know who's no, but I don't know who's on Cinemax in 2019 going, hey, as well, it's shut. I'll dive in. And yet there I am. Honestly, I've done it a bunch.

I've seen it a lot. Yeah. For that exact reason. But that must be why they're showing it because people like us are like, oh, all right. There's like some very obvious reasons. It's like Nicole Kidman is just taking her clothes off in this movie like three times. Like, for a certain kind of a person. And I'm not one of those people.

I'm like, I'm interested in checking out what's going on here. And then also it was like a beautifully made kind of weird, confusing movie that kind of sucks you in even if it doesn't give you resolution. It's also a great rabbit hole movie. So if you do research on it, if you read the Reddit 3rd. and sort of the outer rim of websites, not beyond the sort of like, 10 things you need to know about this movie. It's like once you get into like this symbology of it

and the-the-Rotch-out family? Yeah. Get a little into the Venetian masks element. Is the outer rim, is the outer rim one of the moves that we saw at the orgy? Or is that. I think that orgy is pretty chaste. It is very tame.

It's too tame. I had that for nitpicks. I really wanted an orgy. If we're going to go there, let's go. Absolutely. Check out Caligula. I feel like you can get what you need there. I needed it from this movie.

This was a tame orgy. It was an orgy that you have when you don't want an NC-17. That's right. You know, a lot of people kind of writhing on each other. So this was based on the 1926 novella. Tramneville? Tramneville? One of your faves.

By the great Arthur Schnitzler. Arthur Schnitzler. Schnitzler. Schnitzler. And our friend Stanley. became obsessed with it, and he obtained the rights in the 1960s, and this ended up being his last movie. It's in a lot of ways of greatest hits of Kubrick movies.

That's an interesting way to think about it. Yeah, he is using a lot of his moves and a lot of the themes that he's interested in. I definitely don't think it's his best movie by any stretch, but I do think it's a testament to what he was a particular genius at, which is taking all of the things that are just sort of practical elements of filmmaking, like the costume design and the set design and which actors you choose and how the camera moves and how it's lit and it's a lot of people look at that as just sort of like logistics or just sort of like hey we got to figure out we the cop wears the suit right there every single thing

in this movie is part of his color palette and that's why he's who he is is because he can see the entire movie in five dimensions in his head all the time and maybe it takes him 400 days to get there. Yeah. But he can actually say like, yeah, the Christmas lights are going to be all through the movie. And then like it's always going to feel like this. And I'm going to shoot it like this. And you never see Tom Cruise like that.

And every little thing, it winds up. It's like, it's a true expression of filmmaking, I think. It's kind of in your wheelhouse, Mel. You like things that are left open in interpretation. It's true. I love to be able to question intent whether something is actually the finished product, the film that he would have made because, of course, he died. before it came out,

which is also a huge part of the film's legacy. But I love the Christmas lights point because, you know, in the novella, which I've not read in the interest of full disclosure. It's the one Schnisler you haven't hit.

I think the interest of full disclosure is sort of a point here. We tried to hire Snitsler. She was a huge asking price. His price tag was massive. Did not want to write NBA at all. What a tapehead, though? Schnisler.

Fubberts. Focusing. the carnival scene in Vienna. Loves crushing tape. He likes to spend NBA Free Agency focusing on his fiction, you know, his erotic fiction. So weird pitches from him.

Schnitzler. One of the great, it was, it was Schnitzler KOC and we went KOC. I interrupted you. I'm sorry. That's quite all right. I've done it to all of you before. I apologize. It's fine. I think this is going to be a free-flowing conversation. Yeah. I said to Sean, we might throw the categories out.

I don't know how, if this can be treated like Tocon. I think it's hard to say things like most rewatchable scene. Yeah. I do think they... I've got some nominees. But I have thought a lot about heat checks as I have thought about this movie. So there are some, maybe some opportunities for us to return to the structure.

But I think you're right that flowing freely is a good strategy. I gotta say, I'm shocked that I like this movie because as you guys know, I hated English majors in college and I hated books that could be interpreted by, however. I like my things to have like angles and answers

and I was just never, one of those guys who would consume content and be like, here's how I see it and go to a coffee shop and argue about it for two hours. Isn't the reason you like this movie because the protagonist isn't like Jesse or whatever from from reality bites or Troy from reality bites? Like it is just a normal guy who gets thrown into this crazy world. I got to be honest. I don't know why I like this movie other than I've just never seen another movie like it.

It's so fucking weird. and it was able to take this Kidman Cruz relationship that was happening in real life at the time and twist it, this relationship that we all already had kind of questions about because he was deep into Scientology at this point. It was very secretive in general. And then when they filmed this movie,

it was super secretive and nobody even knew what the plot was and they kept everything under rap and there was confidentiality agreements. And by the time this movie came out in 1999, it was like, what's this going to be? Are they just going to be having sex for three hours? Like, nobody knew anything. But I think that the reason why this movie is compelling to a lot of different kinds of people

who like a lot of different kinds of movies is the same reason that almost every Kubrick movie is that way, which is that if you watch his movies just on the surface, if you just watch The Shining on the surface, or even a Clockwork Orange, which is a crazy movie. But if you just watch it to follow the characters and see where the story goes, it can be satisfying in its own way. Like on the surface Even the opening of 2001 has a story.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, the whole, I mean, the whole how, you know, showdown is a science fiction story. I'm even talking about the apes though. Yeah. Yeah.

But, and likewise, this movie is an erotic thriller and a mystery. It's an erotic thriller that's not really that erotic and has no thrills. Yeah. I don't know how he does it. Like, there's really not a lot of sex and there's not a lot of thrill. I'll tell you what I really loved about it this last time around watching it that I don't know that I had noticed before. is a great New York movie. I know it was shot in London,

but it's not New York, like an actual representation of the way New York looks, but it is how New York feels and that idea that like the night gets longer and longer there and that you can like get dragged into a weird bar,

you know, or you can and when you walk into someone's apartment or outside it looks like one thing and then you walk into an apartment building and then like it's a completely different world. Like that is what it feels like to live. there, especially if you're out, like, after one in the morning. The way that Kubrick built in New York for the movie is just another mask, right?

It fills that same function that the actual masks do at the orgy. And, like you're saying about the character who is this, ultimately this blank that allows you to either project yourself or avoid projecting yourself onto the character, like all of the different aspects of the film serve that same function. It's all a facade. You know, do you want to show somebody else who you really are? Do you even want to acknowledge it to yourself? and then what happens when you finally do?

I think it's also... There's that English major stuff. That was good. No, I'm with you on this one. Even in a more practical way, though, I think that the way everything looks and feels is the way everything is meant to look and feel in a dream. And so when you dream about New York,

you don't dream about it in technical color. It's like your vision of it, but it's not quite accurate. It's not pitch perfect. There's something a little off. There's something a little off about everything going on, the tonality, the way people are talking to each other, the things that happen. and even if you don't subscribe to the theory

that it's all a dream, there's something purposeful going on. And every woman wants to have sex with Tom Cruise during the dream. Which is the key element to it. No? I guess. No, I'm saying in the dream,

not you right now. Yeah. He's just on a street corner and somebody's like, hey, want to come upstairs? Yeah. That doesn't happen in real life. I think there's an interesting discussion

to be had about which of the characters are actually hypersexualized in the movie and which of them really aren't. But to that point about the dreamlike state. It's your earlier point about Christmas. That's the brilliance of the way Christmas is positioned in the film because, and again,

the protagonist in the novella, as I understand it, is Jewish protagonist. Christmas does not play a role in Jewish Vienna in the story. But what is Christmas? It's a unifying force for a lot of people, right? It's something that brings people together, not something that divides them. And then it's basically the perfect standard for just what you would consider everyday life, normalcy, routine. It's this thing that you can count on.

Yeah, it's like when Alice is like, Helen is waking up and she expects us to take her shopping. Exactly. And then everything, all of this strangeness, all of this oddity, all of these shifts and changes play against that backdrop of the totally routine. But what straight guy doesn't think of being told that a beautiful woman wants to have sex with them is something different from Christmas. That's Christmas for a lot of straight guys. And ritualistic sex orgies. Those are all gifts. It's a great.

I remember this like, there's a couple experiences I had in New York, but I remember once, it was actually something, it's almost like deja vu, but I remember I was once, I was driving up back, I was on a cab going across Manhattan Bridge, another Brooklyn Bridge, because I was going past like up Atlantic on the Brooklyn Bridge. And as I was driving home in this, in this car, I saw out of the backseat window, one guy walking down the street and completely knocked out this other guy on Atlantic Avenue. And I was like, did you see that? Like, I was in the car with, you know, I think my girlfriend at the time.

And I was like, did you see that? And they were like, no, no. And I asked the driver, and he was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And it's that feeling that, like, you can get sometimes in New York because you're always moving. You're always on subways. You're always in cabs. You're always walking really fast. It's like, wait, did that just happen?

Right. Did I just see that? And that's the kind of whole thing in this movie is that there's this unseen world right in front of Bill that he gets this one little glimpse of and then it's told that he can never have again. And that's like the most fascinating thing in this. The whole thing is his interaction with that. Where do you stand on the conspiracy corners with this movie? We should probably talk about it now.

This is the most widely interpreted weird movie, probably ever. And this is something he's loved to do over the ears. I mean, I saw The Shining. That was one of my favorite movies of the rewatchables of the 80s. Scared the living shit out of me in the theater. My dad shouldn't have taken me. I'd really like to do that as a rewatchables at some point. We have to.

But I had no idea until the internet was formed that there was this whole subculture of the Shining and people breaking down Danny's clothing and what it meant and things in the background. And I didn't know about any of that stuff until I started reading film books, which was probably late 80s, early 90s. Because that kind of scholarship was like existed pretty much in a vacuum. Like it wasn't widely. It had to be your buddy. It was in video stores. Yeah. And then he became famous for it.

And I think by the time this movie was made, it was kind of one of his things. Now, it might have always been his thing, but he really tries to own it in this movie. And you can look at all kinds of shit going on here. Now, 20 years later, it could be a parable for what's happening with this Jeffrey Epstein story. And people have said from the beginning, this is what he was trying to tell us, even though he used adult women in the sex orgy, that those women were the proxies for actual, like, teenagers. And this was all about ritualistic pedophiles. Who knows if that's true, but that's the kind of discourse that people have about this movie.

Well, and then you have the whole plotline in the Rainbow Costume Shop with Milch's daughter, and that is, she's a child, right? She's 15 when she films that, yeah. So, you have that. I mean, neither of those things are a mistake. They're very purposeful. I don't even think that's such a high-level conspiracy about the movie. There's a lot of conspiracies about what the colors mean in the movie,

and there's a lot of, like, film theory around the movie, but shooting in the Rothschild's mansion the way that they did, you know, like... But the same way that we, like, you know, you're saying that, like, the shining and, like, the understandings or the readings of the shining weren't really around until, like, you started reading film books and especially with the internet,

and you can just kind of, like, Google shining, meeting of the shining or meeting of eyes wide shut. Our understanding of that kind of, like, underworlds was way out, like, on the far reaches and is only, like, I think, recently pierced the main. I remember we were talking about True Detective season three and a lot, there's a lot of that stuff in there. And you start reading about it. And you're like, wow, this stuff was like on the news once, but then never like came up again, really. And then like it or it was like on a current affair a couple of times.

But then it really came up again. It's really, I feel like it's only recently that people have just been like, well, I guess this is really it. And the post and the times and everybody is like really reckoning with it. I don't go to any Reddit boards at all except for the Reddit conspiracy thing, which is one of my favorite bookmarks. That's such a healthy way to interact. I just, I love seeing what the crazies are getting fired up about and Kubrick is on there every once in a while.

Oh yeah. And when this Epstein thing started, there were a lot of people on that board who were like, yes, I've been saying this forever. And then eyes wide shut is coming back as threads and stuff. But there is a segment out there that's like this has been happening forever. And now it's hitting the mainstream and they're trying to cover it up and this goes as deep as it goes.

And it's kind of hard to argue when this guy had a fucking island with cameras and all kinds of weird paintings and stuff. And it's like really not that far away from Eyes Wide Shut. And when I watched it this time, I watched it in a completely different lens. Absolutely. Yeah.

Like I felt like Epstein could have been at that party. Oh, without question. I mean, I think maybe we'll break down the scene towards the end of the movie where Victor and Bill have a conversation about what's really going on here. But that's an indicator that this is a centuries-old ritual practice that the elites are, you know, it's basically an admission of the free Masonic society. Like that is essentially what's at the, really like not too far below the surface of what

the point of the movie is. You know, that's definitely a big part of it. And whether that's... Wasn't that the clue with the rainbow thing? Was it the rainbow like a big masonry? Yes. Yeah. So I don't know. I actually don't, I think that there's three levels of it, right? There's the one level that I mentioned, which is like, you just watch the movie and it's entertaining and you like it. The second version is the film theory version where you think about Kubrick as a filmmaker and what he does with light and

shadow and sound and music and the acting and then what does that mean for the themes he's trying to send? And then the third level is what crazy conspiracy theories are there? Is it such a conspiracy theory that this movie is about

how elite people prey on young women? Like that it's not that's not really that deep. Like, what goes beyond that? What goes, what's the second layer of conspiracy theory here? Because we know it's been proven that the Epstein thing is real. Like, that happened.

I guess the pedophilia angle with the actual As Whitechuk party. Right. I hadn't considered until recently. Right. I just thought that was like, oh, these rich dudes are just using women. Yeah, it's just, they're just running through women. And when stuff happened, they drug them up and then they get rid of them. And Victor says she's a hooker.

He doesn't say she's a child. You couldn't actually make a movie about pedophilia in the way that Cooper wanted to. You couldn't have 100 naked 13-year-old girls in that thing. They're never making that movie. So who knows? It's a really fucked up movie. It's basically what Ziegler says. It's like, what if I told you this was just a charade?

Let's just believe that. And that's the same thing with eyes wide shut. Well, the film's production was 400 days long. Apparently, this is the Guinness World Record for the longest continuous film shoot. I don't know if I believe that, but... It's a long time. This movie was... That production was in the tabloids like every day.

I remember reading The New York Post and I was working that summer before it came out. And it was chronicled so closely because it was Cruz and Kidman. Right. It was Cruz and Kidman and also, I feel like Cruz at the most famous he's ever been. This is right after Jerry McGuire.

Five $100 million movies. Yeah. He's had this 11-year run from Top Gun through Jerry McGuire. And it's like, what's next? This guy can do anything. And then he just went off the map. And he didn't really do anything for two plus years.

The Kidman thing was, she was kind of still going, her trajectory was still going up. She hadn't really been in a great movie to this point. Had she? Deadcom. Right. I'm not a big fan of that movie. I really like that movie.

Yeah, she wasn't a big story. She hadn't worked with the director like this. No. I think she was still. Had she done any like Campion stuff in Australia? I guess Portrait of a Lady is around that time. Yeah. I don't remember specifically.

I mean, we can quickly look at what she's doing in the late 90s. Yeah, like every day, and they're in London, and while they're shooting in London, the London tabloids are trying to get after it. So, like, he would try and shoot a little bit here and there, and there would just be huge hordes of people showing up to watch them shoot. And then you had Mission Impossible, too, which was supposed to be starting,

and it keeps getting delayed. And then you have Harvey Keitel leaves. And at some point, people are going, what the hell is going on. This is early internet. This is 9798. The internet still wasn't working the way it did now. A lot of this stuff was being reported in New York magazine, Premier magazine.

I remember reading a lot of it. Yeah. Being like what the fuck's going on in this movie? It seemed like it was going, there are signs that it's going towards like Heaven's Gate apocalypse now. Yeah. All time. Boondoggle.

Are they going to take it away from him? But by all accounts, like Kubrick basically had this way of working that was, he could work at such a low price point with the crew he had, the size of the crew in London, that 400 days for Kubrick was like a pretty normal movies for like a Sydney Pollack. He also did all post-production out of his house. So most movies when they're made, they're hiring outside companies, they're bringing in, you know, lots of people at extraordinary rates and that's happening in Santa Monica. He lived in London. They filmed in London. He did all of this stuff. He did all the post out of his own home.

So that's a money saver. Plus, there's this great documentary called Film Worker about a man named Leon Vitale, who was basically Kubrick's right-hand man that came out last year. And it is an evocation of how committed people were to working for him for not a lot of money for years. Like, Vitale worked for him for three decades.

And he just turned his whole life over to Kubrick because he was like, I will never meet a more inspired and important artist. And what I want to do is be in service of that person, which is the same way that Cruz and Kidman are in the middle of this huge career that they're both having, they just turned over two years of their life to this guy to make this movie.

It's like all of us with Bill. A little bit. Here we are. You're the Epstein. Yeah, I was thinking that. I'm two more decades away from being your Kubrick. Oh, God. No, I do think it is funny.

Talk about Trom Novell, yeah. But there's nobody like this now. You're not allowed to be. Yeah. When he died, this was the end of something. I think Scorsese, could have been like this if he had picked his projects better. But I think he's been a little bit more high volume.

But Scorsese had like a little bit more up and down of being on the outs with the actual movie industry. Kubrick like made centralized everything like Sean saying and made himself his own film industry. Scorsese was like, I got to make one that makes a little bit of money so they let me make Kundun or something like that. But that's my point though. Like Scorsese could have made a movie every five years and built up a mystique about the next one.

And that was the one thing I always felt like Kubrick had where he's like, oh, he's making a movie. That's right. What's it about? There's no director. Like, Daniel Day Lewis is the only person of this generation. Tarantino is a little bit off. You think? I mean, not, maybe not as like, like, three, four years.

I don't think we unpack or try. We don't stay up all night trying to figure out what once upon a time in Hollywood's about. But I think that he makes a movie every three or four years. And people throw themselves in tow. Yeah, that's true. I mean, he made 13 movies and. 50 years. Like that's not.

Scorsese works that way because he wants to make something new all the time. He's questing to build his filmography. Kubrick actually liked being inside one project for years at the time. He thought that that was the best way to do it. Well, he also is a lunatic. He really wanted to destroy his actors

as he worked with him, which he gave Shelly DeValle nervous breakdown. She had to go to the hospital and like recuperate from working with him, which is, I think, I'm parallel. I have a special category just for this podcast before we get to the categories. Craziest Kubrick story from this movie. He had Cruz do 95 takes of walking through a door.

Yeah. He found his story through psychoanalyzing Cruz and Kidman and basically being their marriage counselor and they all agreed, we'll never tell anyone else what we talked about. He would give them separate notes, but not let them talk about what he said to them. Not much of a counselor. She filmed the scene. where she did the scene with the male model and he filmed it for six days

and wouldn't let her tell Cruz anything about it. So it was just, he wanted it just things to fester with him. Cus is making this movie. Yeah. I'm getting ulcers hearing this. He filmed the scene with, your favorite scene with him in Sydney Park at the end.

It took three weeks to film that scene and 200 takes. For the sex scenes, he researched basic instincts, show girls, thrillers like Red Shoe Diaries to evaluate how far he could push the sexual content. He researched showgirls. I've done some researching on showgirls myself.

He banned Cruz from the set during the handsome naval officer scene. He, the scene when Tom Cruise buys the New York Post and finds out the girl dies. Different languages for a... Yeah. He had an Italian newspaper and he's like, hey, can you shoot something with the Italian newspaper for my Italian cut? What a nut job. And then in the last scene, when he enters the apartment for the last time, Bill, right before he discovers the mask, we see a stack of Stanley Kubrick videos on the long table under the painting and the one on the top is full metal jacket from 1987. Fucking nut job.

And I probably left out 10 things. That's the thing, like talking about the 400 days through the lens of just time or money or other projects in the industry. none of that can even come close to touching thinking about that amount of time for the married couple making this movie together. That is an astonishing thing that actually happened in real life. And then they got divorced two years later.

And they were contracted for six months. Right. So they went six months over. And it's not like Tom Cruise. Good one. That was good. We should take a second. That was really good.

Yeah. So you meant contract. to be in the movie. The face you just made is like when Novak Yolkovic aces someone and he's just like very deeply satisfied. I was saying like if you think about what it takes to get Tom Cruise to show up for anything. Like the things you have to do for that or or how valuable his time is.

And they just took six extra months and and held up mission impossible to do this. And a movie X. But it's like, you're right, you can't really compare that to any other filmmaker. There's nobody today who's just like, I'm just taking Tom Cruise off the board for a year and a half. And he's using against Cruz. Right. Cruz's love of I want to work with these directors over the next 15, in these actors over the next 15 years of my life. This guy, this guy, this guy.

And then Kubrick's the right wheel. He's like, you ask for this. And the thing that I'm going to tap into to make my movie is your most deep-seated, not only sexual appetites, but insecurities. with your partner who's right there. With a naval officer. Taking him off the board for two and a half years, which is what this does is kind of an amazing thing. I was going to get to it later,

but we should talk about it now because it's like the Durant Achilles injury. Yeah. Where it's just like you take a year, this is Cruz's absolute prime and you're just taking a year and a half away from him. That's at least one movie. It might have been too.

It's also like born on the 4th of July in 89 basically changes his career because that's when he realizes he should make serious movies. Like, The Color of Money is a great movie, but I don't think it was thought of as, like, a serious movie. Born on the Fourth of July, it's a serious movie. He's nominated for an Oscar. And then he basically works with Tony Scott, he works with Rob Reiner. He makes the firm.

He does interview with the vampire Mission Impossible, Jerry McGuire. But also works with Nicholson. Right. He's working with great actors. He meets his wife. Huge things are happening for him, like Chris said. You get $500 million movies in a row. He's not only the biggest movie star in the world.

He's probably the biggest movie star of all time. time. Is that overstating it? I mean, he's really... He's in the conversation. In a strata that we've never seen before. He was the avatar of a time period where the name above the title guaranteed a certain box office performance regardless of what the movie was. Right. And they could use that, that Kwan, they could use that for, I want to work with Stanley Kubrick, or they could just be like, screw it, I want to, I want to just make like another dumb family comedy. But be Will Smith. Yeah.

Just be like, let's make another aliens movie. The career that basically Cruz could have had is essentially the one that DiCaprio winds up having. Where he never goes off and makes the action movie. He never goes off and makes the blockbuster. He's every time it's Scorsese, it's Inoritu, it's Tarantino, it's whoever. It's the only thing he's interested in. Well, the irony of pulling Cruz out of the loop for two and a half years, this is like an amazing stretch for movies. 97, 98, 99.

And, you know, this ended up being a weirdly memorable 1999 movie, but I kind of wish he had done one more than. And you should just safely assume that any movie from that time period was offered to Tom Cruise. Oh, yeah, for sure. Every single movie that you see that is in any way a Hollywood movie was they at some point were like, could we get Tom Cruise for this? Could we get Tom Cruise? Roger Ebert, three and a half stars.

He wrote Kubrick's great achievement in this film is to find and hold an odd. unsettling, sometimes erotic tone from the doctor, strange encounters. I feel like he kind of mailed that in. This movie made $162 million? Yeah. Mostly overseas. That's right.

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for more than 90 minutes. I'm going to zoom through some of these. Most rewatchable scene. Some great ones. Don't you dare zoom. We're here for it, man. The pot is making you aggressive, Bill. Stone Kidman confronting Cruz.

Did you have that in your back pocket? I did. That was good. Stone Kidman, that would be the first one. Do it. She turns on. Are we going in chronological order? Yeah.

Then we've skipped one. Okay, what? Which one? The dance. Oh, with the weird Hungarian guy? Yes. Incredible. Oh, my God.

That guy is so your type, too. Oh, my God. That is a perfect example of the different, though. I was watching it. I was just like, this guy is such a creep. Who's this fucking old? I hate to big a team, but I had him for the Saul Rubinick Award. That's like a few of the sexiest.

minutes in movie history. Really? Oh my God. What? I'm stunned. I love it. I think that guy is bad. Oh, I love it. It's not about him. It's about the way he makes her feel. You know why women used to get married, don't you? Why don't you? Why don't you tell me? It was the only way they could lose the virginity and be free to do what they wanted with other men, the ones they really wanted. I think that's my champagne. I know. It definitely is. This guy... I'm certain.

I mean, this is a really important dude. First of all, this guy's name is Sky Dumont. That's right. S-K-Y. Here are the names of his four wives. Four wives? Helga Liener, married, 1972, divorced. Diane Stolajon, married 1992, divorced, 1995.

Cosima von M. Borsori, married 1995 divorce 2000, and Mirha Dumont. Yeah. Guess what the name of wife number five is going to be, folks. Mallory Rubano. Still alive? This guy is, he's alive. This guy is just an absolute legend.

He was born Cayetano Nevin Dumont, and he changed his name to Sky in Argentina. I love that name. What was he doing in Argentina? Well, he's German, so a great deal of Germans, obviously. Playing a Hungarian, though. Usually for the wrong reasons. True indeed. All right, so we have that scene.

Sexual tension, a speech on marriage. It's wonderful. Continue. Stone Kidman. Maybe because you're the mother of my child, and I know you would never be unfaithful to me. You are very, very sure of yourself, aren't you? No.

I'm sure of you. Unbelievable. An absolutely iconic scene. One of my favorites. One of my favorites, period. Like in movies. Really enjoy it. She's kind of bad.

Terrible. She's like not high at all. She's not even nominated for this movie, which is really hard. So Amy Nicholson wrote a really good piece for Vanity Fair about the movie, but in general wrote a lot about how bad the acting. Bad versus right. Yes. That was the way she described the Tom Cruise performances.

Like, is it bad? Objectively, yes. Is it right for the movie? Also yes. And I think... True for her too. You go through each scene and it goes through that cycle. You're like, man, this is really bad.

So, Amy Nicholson... Todd Field ever, like, walked outside before? And then you're all of a sudden, you're like, this is perfect. Right, right. Her theory was that Cruz did so many takes that Kubrick might have intentionally used bad takes. Bad takes of his because that was the performance he wanted. And then Cruz is trying to do 50 to 90 takes of every scene and has no idea what

Kubrick's going to pick and no idea how to even shape the character, which seems like maybe that's what he wanted. I think if he's trying to get dream logic where everything is a little off kilter, a lot of times when you're watching the movie, you're like, what's wrong with these people? Why are they talking that way? Yeah. But Kidman in that scene is like musical to me.

Like I can hear security and commitment. Like the way that she's, yeah, like everything she's saying is so... Securities are titties. It's like rhythmic and strange and very memorable. Frank Ocean very famously sampled this whole speech in a song and like played it under a song.

Because it's so iconic. Also, just the way that she does, like, that whole scene is a perfect couple fight. Yeah. Where you're like, we're together. And it's like 80% right, but there's something weird. And then, like, you immediately smell blood in the water. And you're like, we're going to fight. And then you are like, wait, maybe we don't have to fight.

Maybe we don't have to fight. So I'm going to pretend like I'm not taking great offense at this. And then I lose it. And it's the first of, I think three cruise class. in this movie, which is just like an incredible weird gesture that he does. Like the best is when he's walking down the street and he's just, he just claps. But he claps at her. And then she's just doing like, I'm like a panther.

I'm like all through the room up, down, pointing, screaming, laughing. And then when he's just like, you're just trying to start the argument. She's like, I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. It's like so perfectly calibrated in it. She's playing chess. It's one of the great couple fights in movies, yeah. I also think Cruz might have really been like this

where he was impossible to fight with because he's just his good energy. Well, not to get too deep into it, but a lot of the stuff in Scientology is like efficiency and like optimizing like experiences and just being like, I'm to borrow a Vince McMahonism cutting out the negatives, you know? It's like it's about like what's the optimal version of this experience.

And I think you can kind of see some of that stuff coming up. I don't know if, I mean, they wrote a lot of the script on the set. So you have to imagine that Kubrick has definitely dialed into who he's directing. Mallory, you don't ever fight with your husband, so you don't know what it's like, but is this way you would imagine it would be like? I famously get along with everyone. Yeah.

But one of the things that I've heard other people say. Many people say I get along with everyone. As I understand it from other people. What's the most painful kind of fight you can have with somebody you love? it's not really when you're like unburdening yourself. It's when you're trying deliberately to wound to the other person. Those are the ones that really stick with you. And that's what this is.

Like why is she sharing any of this about the naval officer in a year ago in Cape Cod? And like the extent of it, it's not just I want it to fuck another guy. It's I couldn't wait to leave you and our daughter behind and I wouldn't have even thought about it once. I also think that there's like the part of like couple fighting where you're like, it doesn't really matter why the fight started. This person has clearly been waiting months to tell me this. And that is exactly what they capture in that movie. Like that movie,

like she belittles like his profession. She's like, she's like kind of knocking like the way he goes through his life. He's like just always just being like, he's obviously being so condescending to her. Like the dynamic of their fight is like incredibly true. Do you buy that he named them Bill and Alice? Because those are two like kind of generic names.

I'm named Bill by the way. I can say this. but like he just wanted them, he's a generic job. Stand in for every marriage. She's a generic mom with one parent, but then just smoldering underneath. Maybe in a way. I think you also have to be a little bit skeptical of them because they're so successful. They're so bourgeois.

Like their apartment, which is meant to be in New York and obviously isn't in New York, is insane. It's based on Kubrick's place. That's just absolute craziness that that could be even a place you could live in New York. That's never happened in a movie, though, where somebody's apartment is much nicer. I don't know if this is an unanswerable. question, but I had a question about this. I have so many unanswerable questions. How rich are they? Because I was wondering, like,

are they getting an invitation to Ziegler's because that's like the social circles they travel in? Or are they like, this is kind of like high altitude? I thought it was high altitude. I think so too, but I think that Ziegler is worth like 500 million and they're worth like 15 million, which is still a lot. Yeah, they're definitely wealthy. Because I thought his practice looked pretty pedestrian.

But he goes on house calls to rich people. which is like that's the highest level of professional doctor that you can be. That's what I want to get with podcast. Just like one person. One on one potting? Yeah, just one listener. Stop talking. It's a tremendous business opportunity to the ringer.

Yeah. It will come to your house. Yeah, so do a one person podcast. You're the only person over here. Amazing idea. Cameo on demand. But the moment in the dance, the wonderful dance at the beginning, she's talking about her gallery closing.

It couldn't make any money. And like for somebody who is not wealthy, that would be a devastating turn of events in their life. And like, obviously, there's some existential crisis there with what her purpose is and what she's spending her time on. But she's like eating financial hits there. Yeah. But I mean, like, she's eating snack wells and drinking cigarettes.

Like, I kind of felt like there is a reality to her life that is not, like, Z-Lers. You know, like... Definitely not at that stratosphere, but think about just how much money bill shells out on the night in question. Like, the every... I thought you're talking about Bill.

It's confusing because the alternative... Think about how much money bills shells out. The alternative is to say Dr. Bill, and then you're going to think we're talking about it. Who's better? Bill at Caesars in July or Tom Cruise in Islet's. But every single transaction is here's an extra 100 on top of what I need to do. There's an extra 200. Here's an extra 50 if you leave the meter running. I mean, it's...

They've got money. They've definitely got money. The forgotten password party scene. Oh, we skipped another one. Oh, we skipped. What did we skip? Well, I like just the entire sequence of Bill's Night Out from Marion to Domino to Nick. Marian's love confession is incredible.

I had completely forgotten about that scene while you're watching it. I don't want to go away with Carl. Marion, I don't think you realize. I do. Even if I'm never to see you again, I want at least to live near you. It's so painful. But that is the exact moment when you're like, this is a dream. Like, this is not something that would happen.

Now, people obviously get emotional. I barely know you. Yeah, but like, that is when you're like, oh, everybody in the movie wants to fuck Tom Cruise because Tom Cruise is dreaming. Right. Like, it doesn't make any sense. They all vaguely look alike.

Right. You know, like, I love that Marion scene. That was supposed to be Jennifer Jason Lee. She shot that scene and they had to reshoot it. Yeah, I didn't fully understand that part. I don't think you're supposed to. No, no, though, Jennifer Jason Lee. Oh, I think he wanted to do a bunch of reshoots

and she was on making a David Cronenberg movie. But yeah, that whole sequence of his night out in New York and finally going to do. see Nick at the sonata, I thought it's like... Well, so the party scene, it's fucking... It's all leading to it. And the first time you watched this and there had been... Nobody's...

You know, by the time anyone actually saw this in the theater that it... You kind of knew a little bit. And it was like, the party scene. And when he shows up at the gate and he's walking in and it's just like, oh, my God, they're really going for it, huh? There's just naked women everywhere and guys in fucking mass and it's super weird. and there's crazy music, and then all of a sudden he's in danger.

The first time you watch it, it's pretty good. You're going, oh, my God. What's going to happen to this fucking guy? Like, you were like, oh, my God. Yeah. It's one of the all-time, like, I have no idea where this movie is going movies. Everything's on the table.

You can't have no, there'd be no way to predict what would come after the first 20 minutes of the movie. They're like, yeah, your taxi driver wants to see. Okay, cool. And then it's like, oh, no, actually, there's a room full of, 300 people in mass naked,

a guy in a fucking throne, and he's mad at Tom Cruise. I think that the way he turns up the volume throughout the movie on The Crazy is amazing. So you start with Marion, that's like a little weird. Keep going out. Domino's a little weird.

I can't believe we skip Domino. Let's talk about it. You didn't want to talk about Domino? I was going to talk about it later. I just didn't do what's age the best. Oh, okay. I'll save it then. But like it gets weirder with Domino.

The interaction with Nick is weird. You know, and like, like, totally. The fact that he walks in just as he's finishing, that kind of thing. What time is it supposed to be at that point? Like, why did he tell him the password and then say, like, you can't come? He doesn't even tell him. He, like, he steals the napkin. Yeah.

And then Millage to get the cloak. And the millage scene is, you're like, what the fuck are doing your... Yes. Yes. And the Japanese guys, and then you get to the Fidelio party, and you're like, oh, we're gone. Like, it's like... Yeah, I really wanted to make that a rewatchable scene, but I didn't want you guys think I was weird.

The Lili Sobies. We're doing an eyes. wide short podcast with you. But that scene, that scene's actually really, every time that's on, I'm like, what the fuck

the Japanese guys have wigs on? And it's like, what is happening? But the millage performance is fucking amazing. Gentlemen, please, have the goodness to be fired for the moment.

Couldn't you see I try to serve my customer? Sorry. And you, little whore, go to bed at once, you depraved creature. I deal with you

as soon as a service gentleman. That guy is one of the like great character. character actors. My hair is falling down. Right here. So what do you think? I mean, we can do an unanswerable question now.

Do you think he was pretending for Tom Cruise the first time that he didn't know what was going on? Or do you think he didn't know what was going on but then worked out a deal with those guys? I never arrived at a conclusion about this. I always thought it was just a scam or a con. Like it's all part of the charade because charades are such a huge part of this. That like those Japanese guys actually pay to get caught, quote unquote. Oh. And it's all part of.

like the like you like it turns them on to like that's what i'm gonna see r that's what i but is it was it just a coincidence that bill knocked on their door and they and then he caught him while bill was there yeah that's a that's a that's a good question great great question this is why i don't like dream sequence shows or movies i mean he's going to a costume store at like two in the morning yeah in the west village yeah um the party scene gentlemen please i love that guy i really like the scene when Cruz gets followed on the streets of New York. I like scenes when anyone's getting followed and they realize they're being followed and

then there's creepy music. Does he get harassed by the Freck guys? That's earlier. That's weird. That's not good. That hasn't aged well. Yeah, I had that in what stage the worst. Your favorite scene, the Sydney Pollock pool table.

Just amazing. Everything Sydney Pollock does in this movie is chef's kiss. He's the 25 year old scotch of this movie. Totally. Goes down smooth. He's perfect. Every time. Plus, we didn't mention it.

I will save it. Listen, Bill, nobody killed anybody. Someone died. It happens all the time. Life goes on. It always does until it doesn't. But you know that, don't you? I don't even know what that means.

Cut. And then they go to the next scene. It's fucking terrifying. I really like the ending. I like the last scene. Them talking in the store? Yeah. Yeah.

That's really good. Yeah. Are we skipping Alice telling Bill about her dream? No. That's just an old timer. Throw it in there. I'm going to read a quote aloud to you. Let's do it.

This is a real thing that's in this movie. And then I texted all of this to Chris last night, by the way. And then I was fucking other men. So many. I don't know how many I was with. And I knew you could see me in the arms of all these men. Just fucking all these men. Why did you read that quote?

I can't believe that's real. Why are... She has to say that to her actual husband. Why did these two people make this movie? I can't know. What is it wrong with that? It's such a... And I wanted to make fun of you to laugh in your face and so I laughed as loud as I could.

That is savage. It's kind of an indictment on how dumb actors are. You know, they could meet somebody like Stanley Kubrick and he's made so many great movies and you're like, I'll just do anything for this guy. And he's like, I've got... just the thing. I will destroy you and your marriage. It's just crazy that they agreed to do this. How many other actors did he destroy?

I mean, he definitely destroyed the full metal jacket guys. Oh, yeah. And Modin, like, loves him and adores him to this day. But that sounded like the craziest goddamn shoot ever. And obviously, Shelley Duval like you mentioned, Malcolm McDonnells that loves him. Ryan O'Neill and Barry Lyndon, same shit. He did 100 takes of every scene in that movie.

Everything is lit with candles. So it's impossible to shoot that movie. Because I'd always heard it started with Ryan O'Neill because he realized pretty early on Ryan O'Neill was the wrong person to be in that movie and just decided to fuck with him. Well, I mean, even Strangelove, George C. Scott and Peter Sellers are two of the absolute craziest people that have ever been in movies. And imagine a movie with him shooting scenes with those two guys. So it goes all the way back, I think.

George C. Scott. His reputation is so huge that it takes a really long time to do the, are we sure he's good conversation? You know, like, you just can't even consider it when you're like watching full metal jacket. you're like, you shot this Vietnam War movie in England? It doesn't look like Vietnam at all. He doesn't like to travel. And I think full metal jacket might have been

the first of the big Vietnam War movies that I saw. So like when I saw a platoon or apocalypse, I was like, man, this is pretty green. It's pretty tropical in Vietnam. I did not know that. And it was because Stanley Kubrick shot a fucking Vietnam War movie in Sheffield. And you would never, if somebody did that today,

you would just be like, nope, eject. That's not. But he had that reputation. I think the first 40 minutes of full metal jacket is the peak of Kubrick for me. Oh, interesting. I think until Pyle dies, just everything, watching Pyle just disintegrate into fucking personal hell. And then everything, just the way he does it is just amazing. You know the hipster take, right?

The hipster take is that the second half is better than the first. I don't know those people. I don't like hipsters. Most rewatchable scene. Set him up for that one. What's your answer? The stone fight. Same.

I really like the party. Yeah, you do. The party's great. Which brings me to what stage is the best. The running joke about the eyes wide shut party. I feel like I've gotten 20 years of that. It's just a go-to joke. You throw it in there.

Like, what the fuck's going on there? It's either the key party from Ice Storm or the Eyes Wide Show party, but you can just go to it at a time. Another what's age the best? late 1990s Nicole Kidman jaw-dropping really all time she was great in deadcom

so it's not like it's not like she aged into being like stunning but really just beautiful on a movie screen the first shot of this movie is her naked is her ass

yeah he's like I'm he's like I'm owning this early and it ends on her saying fuck and you know who shot that opening scene Kubrick It was just like him and those two on the set for like four days.

Yeah. I don't think there's, I think it's a relatively... What a sicko. Yeah, that's psycho. It's a relatively shortlist of actresses who can pull off that level of, like, sexual swagger. For lack of a better place. I mean, she's an alien. Like, she still looks insanely beautiful.

She's in her 50s now. I mean, she is, like, an alien. There's no... You kind of can't compare her to people, because she is, like, a doll-like figure, and he's obsessed with these doll-like women, you know, That's the whole point in the movie, too, is the way that men, like, sexualize a very specific body type, very specific shape, a very specific race, very specific hair color. Like, all of that is all very purposeful. And she embodied at that time in Hollywood, like, that pinnacle, beautiful woman and still Bill is unsatisfied by her.

I was at lunch once with John Walsh in Beverly Hills in, like, 2004. And at this weird bunch of place he wanted to get scared right now. I'm nervous. Is he writing something on the napkin? And it was one of those big open room restaurants where but one room, the door open and Nicole Kidman came in and it stopped the restaurant. And it was the only time I've ever seen that happen at any restaurant I've ever been to in L.A. where she's just like beautiful.

She's tall and she looks like a famous person and she's beautiful. And everybody was just like, just like, like, an alien had landed in the restaurant. It's the only time I've ever seen that. She's beautiful. That's why Sean likes this movie so much, by the way. The number of redheads. Sydney Pollock and suspenders.

Beautiful redheads. There are so many redheads. Shout out to Sally. A lot of redheads. Oh, my God, Sally. Holy cow. Sydney Pollock? A director.

An accomplished Oscar winning director. A lot of directors in the cast? Has like the third most important part of this movie. Is that right? Something like that. Six or seven directors in the cast? Yeah. I mean, I think he gets such a...

One, Pollock started out as an actor, so it's not like this is the first time he ever did that. Two, he really, really idolized Kubrick, even though they're basically contemporaries. He is just, like, fascinated. He doesn't actually understand how Kubrick makes his movies, and that's one of the reasons why I think he gives such a good performance, because he really wants to learn.

He wants to be on the set all this time. So when he's doing 60 takes, he's probably enjoying himself. You love him in the suspenders. That's also the best for you. Incredible moment. I mean, that scene, too, is just, like, completely perverse, but is fascinating. Do you talk about the bathroom.

Okay. That's an unanswerable question. Yeah, save it for that. Okay. Right. Another one seems the best. They use the Shining's ballroom music. He snuck that in as part of the greatest hits thing.

The opening shots, like, of the dance. The dance looks like the Shining. It looks like you're back in the Shining. The creepy piano music and the eyes wide shut that I feel like my son could play. I'd never want to see this movie, but it's kind of thing he could learn how to do. No, like, because he likes to play the HoloLod's set. music on the piano. But he could do the

don, don, don, don't, don't, don't, don't. I'd be like, what's going on? Georgie Leggetti. That's who that is. It's the backwards priest, right?

Yeah. It's the name of it. I'm just going to brisk through this one quickly. Cooper's commitment to a natural look, shall we say, for his naked people.

I respected him. Not a lot of like Silicon in this movie. Well, no? So it seems. So it seems. Any other what's age

the best for you, Mao? It's all a dream. lighten up a joint at home, you know? In the Band-Aids, in the Band-Aid thing. Yeah, that's aged well. Unwinding at home. Yeah.

Speaking your truth. Yeah, they were really fucking unwinding. You know, they didn't have ease. The pot really facilitated a cool Com night at home. Yeah. I love that. You know, the taxi cab era, no GPS, no smartphones for your spouse to track your infidelity.

No find a friend there. Yeah. He does have a cell phone though. Yeah. It's true, but that's, you know, early generation, right? You know, the masks, you already said. Just more broadly. But the thing about that is, like Sean was saying earlier, it's timeless, the secret society

aspect where it holds up now, but you can also imagine this happening in the 1700s and any time in between. And I think just more broadly, the exploration of sexual appetite. That really holds up. It really, really does. That's why I like that Marion confession of love scene, by the way, because it's impossible to think about or talk about the movie. without thinking about it and considering the fact

that Cruz and Kim and are married in real life, but then you have that actress and that character, and it's a reminder that everybody has their version of this, right? Yeah. It's not actually specific to those people. Like, who's she in the room with? Her father, her fiance, Carl, and the man she wants to be with.

In other words, like the three people that you would want to show your best self to, and all you can do is finally give in to what you actually want. I love that. Sheltonarian. I mean, there's an alternative interpretation, which is that, you know, death creates confusing emotion.

And there's like a desperation and a vulnerability that comes out of that. And like this whole movie is kind of about that too, like the death of their relationship. And then what is that driving bill to do? Is their relationship actually dead? We're getting a little bit. What does the news? English world one.

What does the newspaper say, though, that that Cruz picks up? After he finds out the domino. He's diagnosed with HIV. Lucky to be alive. I think the movie is made to be timeless. So in a sense, the movie itself ages the best. Like, there's nothing of 1999

that is like specific to the way they talk, what they talk about, how they talk. The emotions are essentially like anybody who's ever been in a serious relationship can identify certain things that are happening.

And then there's like little tidbits that make it like a cool experience. Like I was really freeze framing trying to figure out what football game Bill was watching. Oh, it seemed like an old USFL game. It seemed like a Michigan State game or something. Like there was because... Wasn't Kubrick like a big football thing?

Yeah, it was. But I was trying to figure out what he was watching that, you know, like there's like a couple of little hints here and there to like a culture outside of the movie. But for the most part, it's happening in this guy's mind. I think you can make a case that's aged the best of any 1999 movie because it doesn't take place really in a year. It can be right now except for the cap.

I guess his wife could be texting him where are you but other than that except there'd be one guy at the party who is like tweeting under his cloak like yeah that's it's about to go down hashtag Fidelio hashtag Ziegler's house hashtag Rothschild it's like the Prague episode of succession lit a F yeah the closed loop system hashtag Fidelio Follow on IG for my story. Just met this great chick named Mandy.

What's age the worst? We mentioned the gay bashing scene, which is just weird. There is a purpose to the scene, though, which is that Bill's just had his sexuality undermined by his wife, and now he's in the street being openly mocked. The six random guys ready to gay bash him out of nowhere. Exactly. And Tom Cruise, the rumors.

rumors about Tom Cruise. I mean, it's like another like, Kubrick fucking being like, I am absolutely going for it right now. Totally. Oh, that's you right. I'm taking that out then. It has purpose. I mean, there is some purpose. I don't think that those guys did 60 takes. It looked like you had them on the set for like five minutes and

it was like, you guys can get lunch and get out of here. That was definitely like, hey man, it goes in, not out. You know, like. What else is age of worse for you? Because, yeah, I can name 30 things or nothing. I got a handful. We've talked about a bunch of them already.

Casting an actual married couple in the film is both the best and worst thing about it. It's, like, so fascinating and so painful to grapple with turning their actual pain and insecurity into artistic fodder. I would say that you could say that the actual, like, mystery has not aged very well. Like, it's just not that interesting.

Like, the society is not that interesting. You're not really, you know, when Victor, it's like, if I told you what these people are, you'd never sleep again. you should obsess over figuring out who they are and you're just kind of like, yeah, sort of move on because it's not really the point of the movie

and so much of his terror hinges on that. It's like, do we really care that much? And it's two hours of 45 minutes, so feeling like that's not fully developed at the end of a movie that's basically three hours is a little tough. Yeah. I think it's also that that's not the point of the movie.

You know, it's just the device to kind of get him to this moment of Christ. and to get them to that moment of crisis, you know? There's no answer. And that's kind of what you're talking about, too, Bill, where you're sort of like, I don't even really know why I like this movie because there's no logical cohesion. It doesn't really like, it doesn't resolve in any way.

So it's unsatisfying. Two years later when Cruz and Kidman got divorced. That's true. That's the last two minutes. Like, yes, I fucking did it. He did it. I knew it. It was going to happen.

You know what age is the worst? What? Dr. Bill's prowess is a medical professional. Terrible. His exam of an overdose victim is, here is a fleece blanket and look at me. No, it's Mandy. Mandy, open your eyes. Move your head.

Move your head. Mandi. That is not what you want to see, folks. Especially considering how often he's like, well, I am a doctor. But he has incredible discretion. Yeah, and then flashing his doctor ID everywhere he goes, just annihilating his Hippocratic oath, lying about the fact that he's, exam results. I have to give

Nick Nightingale his medical results. That is terrible. I think that was part of the dream stuff though that he's intentionally like a character of a doctor. Versus like actually being a doctor. For sure. Mallory, move your head. Moving right left. What else is age to worst? Just like we said, the orgy

scene is so tame. You want a little more? Well, in 2019. He had to jostle with the NPAA a lot. They put bodies in front of bodies. And there was all this, that was a huge controversy at the time was that He couldn't make the movie as sexualized. Have you seen the uncut? The uncut version is still very, is racy.

I guess racier. There's a lot of thrusting that you can see a lot of stuff. But it's still not like, we're in like a porn hub era. So it's just not that crazy anymore. Is there any male full frontal in the? No. So that's my final contribution to this. That's age the worst?

Yeah, given how the sheer volume of the nudity in the movie, not seeing a dick at any point is fucking weird. You wanted some Pollock dick? Sure. Let me introduce you to the euphoria. Big Ziegs. The most 99, three days in the condor.

Can't speak. Most 1999 thing about this movie. I think it's the Cruz Kidman marriage because that was kind of the iconic marriage of that decade, right? Was there a bigger celebrity marriage? I don't feel like for the 90s. Bill and Hillary Clinton, maybe.

Yeah. If you go political. Yeah. Yeah. For celebrities, this is it. Not that there's anything, you know, eyes wide shut about Bill and Hillary Clinton. No, no, not at all.

Nothing. Not at all. Casting what ifs in the 70s when Kubrick wanted to do this, he had Woody Allen. It's the protagonist. That would have been a disaster. There's a moment in one of the featureettes, too,

where Kubrick talks about how he's obsessed with Woody Allen because Woody Allen was able to make a movie every year. And he, like, so admired. that but he was incapable of doing it. I don't know if he would still- 1980s, Steve Martin? It was going to be a sex comedy with a quote, wild and somber street running through it.

Mal, you better sit down for this one. Harrison Ford was the top choice at one point. That might have ended you. Well, so this is where the last name, Harford comes from, right? It's a nod to Harrison Ford. Incredible. I don't know if I could have handled Harrison.

I think it would have been better with him in some ways. Has Harrison Ford been in like a real erotic thriller? Yeah. Witness. I mean, presumed innocent has kind of that going on. Frantic. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like he's been in a movie like this. He would have been fucking angry. Prusufin is pretty erotic. I thought what lies beneath two in a weird way? He's done it sometimes. Imagine his eyes behind that mask. Him in the late 80s doing this movie would have been really interesting. Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger considered at one point?

I don't think Basinger. That didn't really have the acting job. They didn't need this movie to have their marriage destroyed. Right. And then we mentioned Jennifer, Jason Lee, and Harvey Kiteau. I have one more in there. Johnny Depp. I don't believe the Johnny Depp thing.

Well, a lot of the stuff that's coming in casting what I've said a half-ass internet research, I should say, comes from David Hughes' complete Kubrick book, which is really awesome. But Val Kilmer apparently sent 30 unsolicited audition tapes with Kilmer to Kubrick. And he would have gone full frontal. Best that guy, A.K. The Joey Pantzor. It has to be Lee Sobieski's dad, right? What's that guy's name?

Radha Serbadizia? I don't know. I'm not sure that the crown says. Anybody else for that guy? Todd Field. Todd Field. But he stops acting after a while. Yeah, but he goes on to directs little children in the bedroom. The Saul Rubinick Day New Ord. The Hungarian guy who, hits on Alice at the first party I had written down

but I'll rescind that one. Skydumont. I also had Lily Sobiesk's dad for this one too because he's really feeling it. Dion Waiters. I'm going to go Mandy for this one. You can say Mandy I want to throw out Alan coming.

It has to be Alan coming. Incredible Alan Cumming at the hotel showing. It's funny you should ask that question Bill because actually there was something a little strange about the way Mr. Knight get left, yes. Really?

What was that? The facial expressions. He is going for it. It's like it's in a different movie. It's incredible. Really enjoyed him. Want your kids to learn and play every Sunday for free? Plenty kids is using sports and evidence-based

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Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. Half-ass internet research, Kate Blanchett was the voice of the mysterious mass woman at the Orgy. Why? Because it could cost me my life and possibly yours. Let me see your face. No. Go. During the movie, they sued Star Magazine for writing that they had sex therapist to coach them during the scenes.

They actually sued them for that. We mentioned the raw child scene. Also, there was a speculation that Sidney Pollock was brought in as Warner Brothers is spy. Oh. And also that he was brought in because he was like the cruise whisper. So when they got rid of Keitel and like Pollock was brought in, it was like, there was rumors that it's like, oh, they're bringing Pollock in to, like, make sure this doesn't go completely to pot.

There's all kinds of weird rumors about why Keitel was taken off this project, but I'm not going to mention it. Unfortunately, we can't discuss those. There's also, like, Gary Oldman just told the story once where it's just like, Kitell just, like, lost it. Like, on the 88th take of opening a door, he was like, goodbye, I'm fucking out. There are some more stories. We just recently heard about one that we can't share.

Apex Mountain? Anybody? Apex Mountain? Anybody? I guess this is Apex Mountain for the Eyes Wide. Chuck party. Orgies? Just orgies in general? Big orgies with bass.

Right, because I guess this was still at a time when like nobody believed they were real. So it's like, they get the exposure. Yeah. How about movies filmed in London pretending to be in New York? Apex Mountain. Apex. All right. Picking Nits.

Want to pick some Nits, Mal? Sure. Most of the ones I have for this are pretty small. I have a hard time believing that Alice got that high off a couple hits of one joint. So my follow-up to that is bad stoned. You don't act like that when you're stoned. She acted like she was drunk. Well, she's drunk too.

Everyone's thoughts differently. Right? She's drunk too. It's after the party, right? I don't know. I thought you'd mell it out a little more. She's drinking a lot of champagne. And she's spending a lot of time with our Hungarian count.

I think she'd be sloppy. This is later because they have the mirror sex right after that. Yeah. Mirror sex. Time passed. This is a separate sequence of his... But Bill was pretty often throwing down news. Like he was ready, so who knows how much time passed?

He's the guy, those models in front of him? That's right. I was confused by... Even though every sequence with Domino and her roommate is wonderful, Domino's roommate clearly knows all about Bill, right? It says, oh, I heard from Domino, what a wonderful guy. You are.

And yet doesn't know. that they didn't sleep together. She wasn't there. But she's implying that she heard all about him. Yeah. And great level of detail. That whole scene is really interesting because obviously if you just operate

under the assumption that it's a dream, then you don't have to worry about it making sense. But the fact that it's, they gave her, they gave Domino HIV, I guess, it's like a really, it's hard to untangle what that means. I think it's just a threat of living dangerously.

Yeah. By changing his mind and staying safe, he was able to survive, you know, and by committing to the concept of marriage and his spouse that he didn't kill himself. I mean, he almost kills himself at this party. Every time he gets close to making a bad choice, he somehow avoids it, and when he avoids it, he stays alive, which is this, like, the illusion of safety in marriage, I think is like a big theme of the movie. Can we pick the knit that Domino would have had a roommate?

and that there was somebody out there like, oh, this is Domino's roommate. Like, that's somebody named Domino, whatever. Just a person named Domino? Yeah, I don't feel like they should... I don't think she was born Domino. I think she probably gave herself that name as a professional. Also, that had really, like, the deuce vibes to me.

Domino and her roommate seemed like... I mean, I'm sure that they've had hard times, but, like, that apartment was especially a shithole. Yeah. It's like you... It really did look like, you know, like a Depression-era... jail cell or something.

It was kind of weird that they didn't just like tidy up a little bit. Yeah. I mean, Bill is taking his coat off and putting it in like a tub in the corner because there's no other surface to put it in. Speaking of Bill relaxing in an apartment setting, do we do we buy that that Dr. Bill wears hugs at home? Do we buy that? I guess he had slippers watching a football game, drinking a Budweiser.

I'll just say that they were not really of the slipper line. Speaking of beer, that's another one. He's just like, I'll have a beer. What kind? He doesn't strike me as I'll just. have a beer guy. Someone just mentioned this to us that we were talking to about this movie. I don't buy that. I mean, that ultimately just feels like they couldn't get Anahezer Bush to sign off on the sex Orgy Rothschild's movie.

But he's clearly holding a Budwives. I know, but you don't see the label. You just see the color so you indicate. But that's why he has to ask for a beer. There's nothing about this movie that feels authentic. I mean, like, just even the way that people introduce themselves. Like, all of the Nick Bill stuff is like, do these guys know each other? Is Nick real?

Like, what is actually happening here? Like when he was like, I haven't seen you in what is it? 10 years and then some. Like, like, who talks like that? My favorite quote is, I assure you that Nick is safely back home and he's probably banging Mrs. Nick as we speak. That's a great one. Other than the ones I mentioned.

I love Pollock just, the Mrs. Nick is fucking dead as Dillinger, man. Give me three other of your favorite quotes, though. Do the full Kidman voice when you do this, though. I already did the, I was fucking so many other men once, so I'll leave that out here. Though that's obviously the pick. My dude, Sandor, during the dance at the beginning, my main dude, don't you think one of the charms of marriage is that it makes deception a necessity for both parties? Don't you think one of the charms of marriage is that it makes deception, a necessity for both parties? Great line.

That's actually, to your point, point about, like, do people talk this way? A lot of the dialogue is, like, just very flat and basic deliberately. Like, it matches that, like, facade-like nature of a lot of the performances. That's, like, poetry, that line. And so it kind of stands out in contrast. Um, what else? That's good. We got to move on anyway. Can I just do one Ziegler? Yeah. Okay, Bill, let's cut the bullshit, all right? You've been way out of your depth for the last 24 hours. You want to know what kind of I'll tell you exactly what kind. That whole play-acted take-me,

phony sacrifice that you've been jerking off with had nothing to do with the real death. The truth is, nothing happened to her after you left that party that hadn't happened to her before. She got her brains fucked out, period. That's good. That's the one time in the movie where you're like, oh, maybe this is really happening. That's the straight talk express

right there, pull it into the station. Pollock. You're going to do the titty-squeezed line? No. Yes, you are. Squeezed! When she is having her. her little titty squeezed. Do you think she ever has any little fantasies about what handsome Dr. Bill's Dickie might be like?

The way she does that, you just squeeze their little titties? That's such a funer. I can't believe Tom Cruise sat there while his wife said, put your little dicky in them? Yeah, she think she ever has any fantasies about what handsome Dr. Bill's dicky might be like.

It was like, take 74. He was in a half. coma. That's why he's clapping. Because he's like, if we did the rewatchables for 11 straight hours, which is possible with some of the movies we have left. It's not a great way to raise money for charity.

By the 10th hour, we'd be saying shit like, yeah. Next category. Could this be remade as a 10 episode Netflix show? I mean, no, because I feel like Kubrick's so essential, but this actually,

if Netflix existed in 1999, I wonder if that's the direction he could have gone. Pornhub is producing it, actually. I think there is going to be... The Mandy story. Yeah. Probably in answerable questions. What did the ending mean?

So the novella explains why the husband's mask is on the pillow next to his sleeping wife. I guess the ending before the ending. She discovered it. It slipped out of a suitcase. And in the novella, she places it there as a statement of understanding. I know you're exploring some stuff. Yeah, we're even.

The movie. it's unclear why it's there. So why is it there? I thought it was supposed to have been placed there by the Fidelityo people to be like we can get at you at the most, there is no inner sanctum for you. There's no safety for you.

So just so you know that this is how it is. Okay. I thought that too, but then the thing about that is she doesn't respond to it at all. Like that would be terrifying. But she's also not like, what's this fucking mask?

Like I found it. Yeah, I guess that's true. I thought that was my interpretation, but who knows? Was this a good career move for Cruz? He said a year later, I didn't like playing Dr. Bill. I didn't like him. It was unpleasant. But I would have absolutely kicked myself if I hadn't done this.

That sounds like he regrets it. Was this a good career move for Cruz? It is part of the weird Cruz apex legacy, but at the same time, I just wish he had done a different movie. I don't know how to feel about it. really interesting because we don't, I feel like he is not the most candid, like, person about some of this stuff. Well, him saying it was unpleasant. No, but like, it's hard to game out.

Are movies, like, eyes wide shut, why he decides to kind of basically pull up the drawbridge and just do franchise to movies? 100%. I think it changes his career forever. And not necessarily for the worst, because I think he's actually found this great equilibrium in the last five years of just like, all right,

he's a great action star. he's still a great movie star. You'd kind of watch him in anything. There's a part of us that wishes he would go back to doing movies like this or going back to doing movies like Top Gun and he is doing a Top Gun movie. But things really, really change after this. Because Mission Impossible 2 is not very good. Vanilla Sky is considered a huge fiasco by a lot of people even though it was a hit.

And then he does, which comes shortly after this. He does that little run with Spielberg and then there's Coulbbing. and then Spielberg starts working with Tom Hanks instead. I like this weird stretch of hand though. Magnolia. I like this movie. It's like he's feeling himself.

But I'm with you. I think after the couch jumping, he's like, all right. But I think he got spooked before that, which is why he recedes to Spielberg, which is like safe hands,

easy blockbuster. I know that whatever I get is not going to be that crazy because Spielberg doesn't make crazy movies. Like he does kind of, he pulls back. Unfortunately, Spielberg had him throw a baseball, which is unforgiving.

Not ideal. Not ideal. Was this Kubrick's final cut? That's a great one. We'll never know. This is not probably unanswerable question. It's unanswerable. We have no idea.

I don't know. I did not think that that was... I mean, I always thought that it was pretty well documented that this was his final cut and he passed away after that. No? Unconfirmed. I think that's what the Illuminati want you to think, Chris Ryan. Gotcha.

Well, there are some... There are statements to either effect, right? There are people, like his brother-in-law said that he thought it was. was his quote greatest contribution to the art of cinema. That's the thing Kubrick said about it and was like, this is done, this is ready, this is a great achievement.

And then other people saying he thought this was a piece of shit. Yeah, Arly Ermi, so he had a conversation with him. Two weeks before he died from full metal jacket. And then his daughter debunked it. And also said that that was total bullshit and then Arly Arme was off his rocker. Yeah, there's a lot of conflicting information out there.

But then I think it's even, it's less even about what people say and more like just the neat, how meticulous he was, like would he ever stop fiddling. He was killed by the Illuminati to stop exposing their secrets. What would you say? 10% chance?

8% chance? Would you put it above 10%? I think I'd put it single digit percentage. That it's not his final cut. Oh, I thought you meant was he killed by the Illuminati? Yeah. Oh, I see. Oh, my gosh.

Seven? So you would say 9.5%. Like, that would be the ceiling. How old was he? Wasn't that fucking old? I think he was in his early 70s. You know, he definitely was not killed by the Illuminati, so we're all good. Definitely?

Yeah, I think so. You don't think the Illuminati is like, wait a second, you're filming in the fucking Rothschild Mansion? He was 70 years old. You're dying. Who killed him? Who was it who actually went and killed him? The Illuminati? I don't know.

I'm just saying, is it a 7% chance, 4% chance? Do you bet your life the Illuminaity didn't kill him? I think it was Beyonce who once said, y'all haters. corny with that Illuminati mess. That's all I'm to say. Any other in answerable questions? Yes. Yes. Let's go. Wait, do your bathroom thing.

Okay. Early in the film, Victor calls Dr. Bill up to fetch Mandy and revive her. With a fleece blanket. And he enters into a bathroom. And in the bathroom is also a home office. Yeah. There's a writing desk? There's a desk. There's a garbage can. There's a filing cabinet.

There's all sorts of writing. materials, she's sitting in a big chair, but then beside them is a shower and a tub and a toilet. Who the fuck puts their office in the bathroom? What kind of weird, rich people shit is that? I think it's kind of cool. Some question,

is Siegler's wife in on all this? I don't know. You say again after the first. Well, there's some people who think that she's the person, so when Bill walks in to the Fidelio party and the two people in the mask from the balcony looked down at a of one nods at him, that that's supposed to be Ziegler.

Right. And that the person in the jester mask next to him is supposed to be his wife. And that this is like their jam. Mm-hmm. I had an unanswerable of how they knew it was him in the orgy once he comes in with the mask on. Like is that marking him? Well, he doesn't have the second password because it's no password. But before they know it's somebody like how do they know immediately?

He comes in a taxi cab instead of like a limo. That's one. Then he hands, you can't hand over your phone. But are they marking him from the time he comes in? The second he arrives. First of all, his face is visible. He should have the mask on right away. So he arrives in...

You seem to know a lot about proper protocol in these kinds of parties. It's not a conspicuous enough insurance. Did you kill Stanley Cooper? It's not a conspicuous enough arrival, right? He comes in a cab. He's tearing $100 bills in half in plain view. Very weird.

Does that work? I don't know. I loved it. At the time, I was like, that's exactly what you do with cab drivers. I guess you have received money in your life that's like taped up, right? So I guess so.

Hansover's coat. In the coat is the resumed. seat, as we learn later, for the costume that he rented. So there are all of these things that give him away. He's also, everybody seems to have a position that they have assumed in the, in the circle

or up in the balcony. He's just like, leaning on a pillar right in the entranceway. Like he stands out in numerous respects. I think the question that I like linger on a little more is how does mystery woman know immediately to like pull him and say you're in danger? Because she's really

she's in the middle of the ritual when all of that is happening. I don't understand how she knew was how to save him. That is confusing. While we're talking about her, can we talk about the bodies not being the same? Mandy's body's not being the same across the film.

Is this a thing that we're allowed to talk about? It's something that I certainly remember observing as a young man seeing the film. I was like, that's not the same. Those aren't the same breasts. By the way, I'm confused by this in 2019. I thought this today when I watched it because she did not occur to me.

in the first scene. I think it goes towards also, like, was all of this, like orchestrated to, like, show. For women to be confused by what Ziegler's telling us. I should go ahead and put this

in half-ass internet research because I will not claim to have done a full, full, full, deep dive on this. It was hard to find research. It was hard to find information on this. And you're Googling, like, naked, yeah, it's tough.

But two different actresses, in addition to even what you were saying about the voiceover, the Cape Lancho voiceover, two different actresses play the Mandy role. So it is actually a different body, according to at least one article that I found. One article. And what was the source of the article?

I think it was the independent? Freemasonry.com? Yeah. The first man... Because I went to some pretty weird websites to research this body. Oh, my God. First Mandy was a C cup. Second Mandy was like a B cup.

I mean, it's pretty noticeable. The bodies are just completely different. Yeah. Completely different. What else is unanswerable for you? Let's see. We've done a bunch of these. A bunch. I'm confused.

I'm confused. That's such like a Tom Cruise way to say how little fun he had. Yeah. Very polite. It's very polite. He's like, this is a personal hell that lasted 400 days and destroyed my family. It was unpleasant.

Yeah. That's like part of the legend of the movie too is that even all this time later, people don't really talk about what happened, right? There's still this veil of secrecy around it. So that's kind of like a coded way of crying for help all that time later. when Alice is dancing with Sander at the beginning, is she? I can't believe this is like the fifth time

we're talking about this fucking guy. I love, I just love that sequence. Is she just hammered? Or is she actually orgasming while dancing? No one in human history has ever thought that. I did. I know. That's why you were in, you know.

She has three glasses of champagne and a guy from the fucking Dosecchi's ad Comes up to him and is like no. Yes. He's holding her in his arms and then she it switches from Dancing to all of a sudden she's like leaning back and going like check it out. I thought she's in an orgasmic state crunch the tape on that and get back to me. I'm just throwing it out there. Think there's a chance. This would be the worst Twitter breakout we've ever had for this podcast easily. Did Nicole Kidman come during the guy? It's like... It's like...

I'm talking about Alice, not Nicole, but yes. Carry on. No, it was Nicole Kidman. It was too bad that the ringer went down that day in 2019 because Chris Ryan said that the Rothschild had Cooper killed. And Mallory asked whether or not Nicole Kidman had an oath. This is why we needed Schnitzler on the inside. We needed him on the roster.

I know. Can't believe the ethical. Take us a counteroffer, Schittler. You just go to the athletic without asking. Come on. Jesus. How are people at the Orgy performing oral sex with the masks on? Now, some of the masks...

You got some half masks. Some of the masks have mouth holes. Half-mash. I think that they're pulled up. There are a couple shots, though, where they seem to be wearing the masks. It's a little more visible in the uncut. Where you can see that they're basically like still on,

like on the top half of their head, but they're pulled up. Does that look comfortable or normal at all? No, it's fucking insane, but it is happening, I think. So it's like, do you think that everybody on the Ziegler level is like, people walk in and they're like, oh, it's Frank. New math for him. Like, they know each other.

Do you think there's like, Greg? There's a lot of. Richard. Hey. Hey. You were coming today. Do you see that the bond, the bond yield inverted? How about that?

Have you met Mandy? She's great. Don't get any speedballs, though. I did. I did have questions about the kind of interactions at giant ritual orgies. Like, is there a cocktail hour? Yeah, is there any food? There sure is.

It's also, it's like, it's 3.30 in the morning at that point, right? Is there like an hour where they're passing around hors d'oeuvres getting ready for the ritual? Or is it just you come in? It's going. It's always funny to imagine those things in the way that you're describing, where it's just like two guys talking at the newsstand about what the Knicks are up to this week, as opposed to this- Fucking John Starks. Four-hour religious experience in which wealthy men fuck prostitutes in front of a guy in a red cloak?

Like, it's just, like, how long could you keep a straight face during an event like that in your life? We got to wrap it up. Any other in answerable questions? Do you think Bill got Alan Cummings character killed by saying that he told him all these things about Nick? Geez. I think he might have. Stark. I can actually have Andy Ask Allen coming.

Please do. And Nick, the musician, definitely died, right? He didn't make it back to Mrs. Nick. No. That's answerable. I don't think there was a Mrs. Nick. That's dark. Who won the movie, the Illuminati, because they killed Kubrick.

They were the winners. That's who I have. We have to delete this podcast immediately. I have for who won the movie. It's got to be Kubrick. Yeah. This is like, there's no way this movie ever should have worked in a million years. It's so fucking weird.

And I don't really even still know what the plot was. Doesn't matter. You know that the last contribution he ever made to cinema was having Nicole Kidman say that they had to fuck. That was his last line. That's with us forever. The last line of a Kubrick movie is fuck. All right. That's it for a special flashback.

Rewatchable's 1999 podcast. Look, we're counting it. That is number 301 of the films that we've done. If you missed 300, we did vacation last week. And we're going to have one more 1999 movie next week. And then we might come back with a couple new ones after that. But it's nice to have these in our back pocket. Thanks to Craig Corlebeck for producing.

As always, thanks to Mallory, Sean and Chris as well. Thanks to Luminary. And we'll see you next week on.