The Rewatchables - ‘Field of Dreams’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: April 19, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Mallory Rubin to build a podcast studio in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa to rewatch the 1989 baseball classic ‘Field of Dreams,’ starring Kevin Costner and James Earl Jones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the rewatchables and the ringer podcast network brought to you by Sling TV. Millions of people have cut the cord and started Slinging because Sling is about freedom, no long-term contract, customize your China lineup, even change it from one month to the next. Catch the latest shows, live sports, hit movies, starting at just $25 a month. Open up your relationship with TV and start slinging. Go to Sling.com slash rewatchable special offer for our listeners, 14 days free. when you enter the promo code Greg Monroe.

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BNW, the ultimate driving machine. Hey, Chris, you want to have a catch? Field of Dreams. Coming up next. If you... Daddy, there's a man up there on your lawn. You were ghosts? What do you think?

You look real to me. This field, this game, it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good. Hey, is this heaven? No. It's Iowa. Kevin Costner, Amy Madigan, James Earl Jones,

Ray Leota, Lancaster. Sometimes, when you believe the impossible, the incredible comes true. Field of Dreams. All right. Chris Ryan's here. Malie Rubin is here. She's filled with tears.

Already song-boring here. Are you crying yet? No. I will be shortly. I have no doubt. Good. No doubt. We're going to make you turn into a faucet.

I should have brought tissues, actually. I'm not prepared for that aspect of this experience. This movie is 30 years old. I asked Chris yesterday, actually, if he could take any movie hairdo from anyone ever.

He picked Costner and Field of Dreams. Yeah. Absolutely. Really? Yeah. Nice and fluffy in the top,

long in the back. He could fit any era. He looks great in this movie. And the best part about is he just literally is wearing the clothes he wore in Bull Durham. He came right off the set.

There's one scene where he's wearing a white buttoned up shirt and pleaded khakis that he wears in the pool hall in Bull Durham. Like I think those are his clothes. Uh-oh.

Okay. The Mother of Dragons is going to weigh in. I just tend to think of his Bull Durham uniform as exclusively wearing boxers while ironing. Maybe that's just me. And talking about William Blake. Well, let's start with Costner. He's white hot at this point.

The Costner stretch from 85 to 89 Silverado, American Flyers, the untouchables, no way out. Bull Durham. Field of dreams. Back to back. Revenge. Do you like revenge? Yeah.

Dances with wolves. And I mean, holy macro. I like all of those movies. I even liked revenge. I really liked American Fires. I think that's the movie in the moment. It was like, that guy's clearly going to be a star.

I don't know what happens to him. Solado too. You see him and you're like, man, this kid has a lot of charisma. Yeah. But then the Bull Durham Field of Dreams combo. And it's interesting because he almost didn't do Field of Dreams because he had just done Bull Durham.

Yeah. Let's start here. Has there ever been a more believable? baseball player actor. No. No, definitely not. What's the competition? Wesley Snipes?

No, Wesley Stipes was a believable. It's like who's even in the slow motion? Oh, did they? Yeah. So who's even in the conversation? Redford? I mean,

Redford had a nice swing in the natural. We talked about that. Yeah, we did the rewatcher. Yeah, modeling it off of Ted Williams. The funny thing with Costner is he's a catcher in Bull Durham. Field of Dreams, he's just a guy who, like, baseball, but then for love of the game, like a really convincing veteran pitcher. Yeah.

We got a tease of it here when he's like, try to hit this curve. Yeah. Party flexing. Yeah. Charlie Sheen was, Remen I did the rewatchables for Major League last week, and Charlie Sheen was throwing legit 85 in Major League and was really, really seemed like he could be like the fifth start in the Orioles right now. Well.

I don't know if you'd want that. He was also on the Roger Clemonds diet. Maybe the third star. He was on the Orioles. I think he admitted it. Kosser tried to walk on at Cal State Fullerton in college. He was that serious of a baseball player in high school that he tried to actually continue through his college career

and wasn't ultimately able to make that team, but he's a pretty serious baseball player. It's such an interesting career arc because, you know, in a lot of ways when you watch Field of Dreams, what you realize and what you, like, especially now, is like you just see like the space and the boredom and the time and the kind of slowness of life that was even just like 30 years ago. Yeah.

And in that sense, he is a movie star at that time was perfect because he's really only at his peak there for five or six years. You know, it's not actually like this Tom Hanks, like, 10, 20 year run. It's like untouchables, pretty much, he's like a big movie star. Yeah. Dances with Wolves, he's probably the biggest thing in the world, but isn't cool anymore really. What about two socks? I thought two socks was the biggest thing in the world. But, like, you know, when he does, when he does dances with wolves, he starts to be.

get into that like I'm the director. I'm an Oator now. And then, you know, Waterworld is like the end of that pretty much. But it's a pretty short run, but back at the time it felt like he was the only movie star. Bad choices though, I think at some point. He didn't he got too ambitious, which is

fine. But I feel like with Ten Cup he brought it back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And then became this guy that it seemed like he almost underachieved a tiny bit for what his superstar potential was. But I still really like his career. Anytime he really the movie I was always rooting for it.

He was somebody also that you would be like, when is he going to do like a Tarantino movie? Or when is he going to be in like a Ridley Scott movie movie and just really revamp it and become a movie start again? Instead, he's kind of just always wanted to do the stuff that seems like appeals to him. So he's done, you know, Hatfield and McCoys or, you know, he'll do like, you know, weird westerns or quiet movies. That Clint Eastwood movie, the perfect world.

Well, that was great. That was like his kind of getting weird. He might have. Yeah. That was just getting weird thing. Where does he rank for you, Mao? Let's start with dream husband. Let's start with favorite actor.

Let's start with just anybody above him. Well, I don't know if this completely answers your question, but the first thing I wrote down in my notes was raised tight jeans. There you go. Just as an indicator of the headspace I was in while watching this, he's certainly a personal favorite. I mean, as I think you both know, Boulderm is one of my two favorite movies of all time.

Yeah. And Crash Davis. Yeah, Crash Davis is a very important figure in my life and in my heart. And Kevin Costner is an extremely handsome man. Yeah. Who really knows how to handle that bat. Really knows how to handle that bat. He was able to be a guy who obviously went to Berkeley and had like hippie counterculture in him.

Yeah. But it was like as like corn fed middle America as they come. Yeah. Like he could do that crossover where it was like appealed to. cooler kids who listen to the stones and the Beatles, but also cooler kids, like my parents. Yeah. And then also just like, if you saw them in an Iowa cornfield,

you'd be like, oh, that's, that's Ray. He's a little weird, but I like them, you know? And there's the third element of that too, because before he heads out to Berkeley, he grows up in the city in New York, his New York City boy. So there's literally like every aspect of Americana, or most aspects of it,

accounted for in this one persona, which is part of what allows them to tap into this idea of like what America isn't supposed to, be across time and space and he's able to convey it all. My wife, probably her favorite actor, message in a bottle is way up there for her. But I think what's interesting about him, there's only been a couple actors like this

where guys would have wanted to hang out with them and women like them. And to hit both demos like that as strong as he hits, he came to the Grantland Party once. I remember. The holiday party. And it almost caused the riot. And everybody that was there would have dumped

their husband or boyfriend in three seconds if Costner just looked at them and gone, let's go. It was just about it, including my wife. There was like a receiving line, like the Pope was in town. It was unbelievable. It was just married women from Hollywood. He's so charismatic and that's why

you know, with a movie like this or Bull Durham, it's a charisma movie for him. There just aren't a lot of actors like that. Well, they don't really make movies like this at all anymore. Well, no. I don't know what this movie now would be aliens? No, it would just have to be like, It would have to be like a family movie

and they would have to like the kids would play a much bigger part in it and they would just, it would have a lot more of like a clear moral rather than maybe there's a place where dreams come true but maybe not. We had to talk about that in the context of the steroids area. What other actors do you think could have nailed this role? Because I think the list is shorter than you think.

Specifically in the steroids era? Let's go past 35 years. Because I think I think Brad Pitt maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if he would have. I think he probably would have done the Moneyball character that he plays basically as Ray Kinsella.

Tom Hanks, I think, could have done it. I don't know if he could have pulled off the baseball convincingly. Other than that, I'm not sure. Because I think one of the great things about Kostner was he could have played the Michael Douglas character in Wall Street. Like, he could have ratcheted up for that.

He could be the guy in the untouchables, but he could also be Ray Kinsella in the cornfield. Yeah. And there's not a lot of actors that could do all of those types of characters. Yeah, like you mentioned his charisma earlier. And that's obviously key, but it's also the specific nature of the charisma. It's a very easy charisma. It just feels really natural. Like, in all aspects of the persona,

you have to believe fully that this would be a choice this person made or that any person could make. You know, so you have to opt in to the fact that he is a little bit spiritual, but also pragmatic. You know, that he is an intellectual and is in possession of this, like, sincere curiosity, but also has this real sense of self and purpose. And he has to also look athletic and handsome. And yet, like, he's somebody who's totally content to just be on a farm with his family and live life in the way that he thinks he's supposed to be living it, not in the way that anybody else is telling.

And you can tell that it has, like, their, like, his character, Ray and Annie have moved to this farm as an extension of, like, 60s back to the land. Like, like, agrarian hippie socialism. them. Like, they think it's like a gas to do this. Like, you know, they think it's like the right thing to do with their lives. Yeah. Jeff Bridges, I think, could have been in this. I think there's, so there's a thing where, you know, like, Denzel can do the, like, wet-eyed look. But he doesn't do flabbergasted the way that Costner does.

Like, Kossner's flabbergasted is, it's kind of like a half laugh, almost like on the verge of tears, all just like dizzy smile that he does where it's like, he does it in untouchables when they're like riding the horses towards the bridge in the Canadian border fight and he's just like, I can't believe this is happening. He does it in Bull Durham when when she's like, she rejects him and he's like, you're scared of

somebody like me because it could be real. He has like this like way of handling himself that's very unique. Yeah. One of my favorite actors ever. Really like probably top six or seven. He's great. It's like a hybrid of being able to show wonder but also really like self-assured. Yeah.

It also got me thinking, like, this generation of actor is the newer one that's, like, in their prime now. I don't know who the Costner would be. And I don't really feel like we have a Hank. Chris Evans. But I don't, I wouldn't have wanted to see Chris Evans in Field of Dreams. No, and he would have played it like really wouldn't. It's hard to imagine him being like. I think people want a Chris Pratt to be Costner, but I don't think.

They want him to be Harrison Ford. To who? Harrison Ford. They want, like his whole thing is supposed to be. We know Luke Wilson is Harrison. No, but his entire persona is built off of Indiana Jones. Yeah. and that's Luke Wilson's already there. There's nobody else in that corner. He's got a 12-pack of

Ticcate. He's wearing a golf shirt. So the other big thing with this is the timing of this movie, 1989. A great baseball decade. Really awesome, except for the cocaine scandal was probably the only crappy thing, but just a lot of good stuff happened. Baseball still moved at a reasonable pace. Well, there was nothing else on, so it didn't matter. There was nothing else on. We had the strike in 1981 and that was like the worst summer of my life. It just was 60 days of no baseball and no box scores and no anything and it just suck because we had nothing else to do. And you get through that decade, steroids isn't there yet.

There was a real innocence about how people love baseball. And it really was the American pastime. And it's really interesting to rewatch this movie now under the prism of that where baseball has betrayed our trust. Like James Earl Jones does a big speech at the end, which we'll talk about. And it's just such a crazy speech to watch knowing how many times baseball has let us down over the last 25 years. Do you, did you think that when you watch it? Yeah, but I think what's really interesting about that is that the story, the movie of the book, it's not asking you to forget that.

Because in a way, that's like a key part of the premise. The Black Sox. Yeah, the Black Sox scandal and this idea that your heroes could betray you. and then if you choose to believe in them anyway, that somebody else in your life who matters to you could tell you that you're wrong for doing that. And then the regret that that person would carry for telling you that you're wrong

and how that kind of defines and shapes your life and the way that we build up idols and sometimes they're false idols and sometimes they're not, but how those decisions in our ability as human beings who like care about things with real enthusiasm and passion defines not only our relationship,

to something, whether that's something as baseball or your own son or your own father, but how those people then relate back to us in turn. And so I think that in a way I found myself thinking about both sides of this, wow, the sport has really changed the way that we as consumers of the sport has really changed, but also there's something eternal about that relationship, person, baseball fan, sport, and really anything in your life that you choose to spend that much time caring about. That's fair. It's also kind of interesting because I was thinking about when Terrence Mann is doing some of his

speeches towards the end of the movie. I'm like, it sounds kind of familiar. And I was like, oh, this is how people were just talking about Tiger on Sunday. Like, we're still susceptible to this shit. Yeah, that's true. We will still like go full Roger Angel, like, let's go to the ramparts and protect like the things, the core beliefs we have in like what sports mean to people. Right. But Roger Angel is a good guy to bring up because

this was like the Roger Angel decade basically. This is when... That's why I fell on the baseball. He was at the tail end of his peak. And the way he wrote about it was there was just such innocence and heartbreak and the ties to different generations we weren't judging guys at all Yeah but the thing about him

Not to blow smoke up your ass But it was like I've had this experience a couple of times Where like I read Rondre Angel I read you like in the late 90s In the early 2000s I was like Oh I didn't know you're allowed to do this Yeah Where you like like you would be like

He would write about like a spider Weaving a web on the corner of a like on a press box wall. And I was like, this is the lead. Right. And I was like 13, but I was like, my dad was a journalist. So I knew a little bit about like how stories are put together. And I was like, oh my God, you can do this if you're writing about like the expos.

Right. And that was like a really, really cool thing. And then in some ways, Field of Dreams was the same way because it was like, you can think about baseball like this. Like it can be this important. It's okay. They could have thrown him in the van with Terrence man, Roger Angel. Yeah.

That's the only time I've ever really. What's the most you've ever fanboyed out meeting a celebrity? Because Roger Angel was mine. Was he? He spoke in Cambridge in like 93 or 94. And I made my dad take me. He did like a reading. And then afterwards like all these like super nervous people are huddled around him.

Just being like, Mr. Angel. And I had my like book, like five innings book. He was like, thanks so much for everything. That's precious. Just like terrified and overwhelmed to meet somebody like that. Because he was honestly, my favorite writers. Oh, yeah.

And what's crazy is he's still alive. He's like 99. Still going. He's still cranking him out. He puts one out everyone so all, right? It's incredible. He's like, he might not be a human being. He might have been sent to some other planet and then sent back.

Didn't he write something about like the women's march and like didn't like because his whole family went but like he's a little too old to be like wheeling around doing it? But he like wrote something about it. I remember that. He's great, great, great grandkids went, I think. And he was writing about that. So this movie was adapted from W. Pete Concella's novel, Shoeless Joe,

director Phil Alderman Robinson, and been trying to make it since 1981. Slightly hard to believe he got it made. I don't know if it doesn't have a big star, if it even gets made, and it seems like they settled on costume pretty quickly, but nominated for three Academy Awards, which I forgot.

He was trying to get it made for quite a while. For the whole decade. Best adapted screenplay, Best Picture. Best Picture. Our nominees are here, driving Miss Daisy, born in the Fourth of July, Field of Dreams,

My Left Foot, Dead Poet Society. That is a crazy batch of movies. Yeah, it's a great Oscar here. I love my love fun. Somehow driving Miss Daisy won, which is just a historic travesty. Best actor, Daniel DeLois, Kenneth Branow, Robin Williams, Tom Cruise, Morgan Freeman. Costner could have snuck in there, I feel like. Robin Williams is for what?

Dead poets. He's really doing that. That's supporting actor, though, I think. Well, I think they shot them. They shot for the big gun on that one. But yeah, he should have been supporting actor. And the best supporting actor, I assume James Earl Jones got nominated and he didn't.

And it was Denzel Washington, Danny Aiello for Do the Right Thing. Marlon Brando. For what? Some South African movie he made back then? I don't even know. I didn't write it down. Martin Lando, Crimes of Misdemeanors, which we all love. Oh, yeah.

And then Dan Aykroyd for driving Miss Daisy, which is a train wreck. Yeah. Okay. So he won. But I would have snuck James Earl in there. Roger Ebert, four stars. Very positive reveal.

Four stars. I was so proud of Raj. Very positive review. Did you see him researching? Did anybody come out and rip it? Well, so I found this one thing, Premier Magazine last decade, named it one of the 20 most overrated movies of all time.

What year was that? It was like mid-2000s. So is this in the ClickBee? generation yet? Yeah. Okay. And it was probably written by somebody on the younger end.

You think? Well, Premiere magazine doesn't exist anymore and you could argue that was why right there. But that's a thing that's happening is I think that younger people who are discovering the movie for the first time,

there's this new-ish wave of coverage at the 25-year anniversary and now the 30 that's basically like, are we sure this is good? This is super corny. Yeah. And that's not my feeling about it, but that seems to be like first-page

Google result territory that we're in right now at the movie, which is kind of a bummer. It's not really surprising, I guess. It's just a lot of the core ideas and the way that those ideas are explored. And actually just like the cadence of the language and the way that people interact with each other is not really how people talk period nowadays, but certainly not how people talk about baseball. It started last decade because I remember Charlie Pierce and I arguing about it, like in the early 2000s because he hated Field of Dreams.

I think he hated Field Dreams. I hope I put in a glass movie. You want to call him? Because he loved Bill Durham. But that was the first time because I had always felt like Mount Rushmore, Natural Hoosiers, Field of Dreams just had to be on it. Yeah. For sports movies.

This is the thing. And there are some people like, fuck that, that movie's corny. I'm like, what? The worst thing about the last 10 years is that we are under the impression that we somehow have to choose between those two movies. Which ones? You can have Bull Durham and Field of Dreams. Totally.

Well, there is a best baseball movie ever conversation. Absolutely. But the idea that you can either be one or the other is like only something that we would start talking about in like the last 10 years. Because it's just like, oh, no way. I am a Crash Davis guy. Ray Kinsella, screw that guy's corny. And he sacrificed important crops for this psychedelic dream. So I just think it's like that's ridiculous to have to choose between the two things.

Yeah, I agree with that. I think that what makes the baseball canon special in particular, even in the sports sports. movie canon is that every baseball movie is a slice of something about baseball that you care about or love. And each of these films makes a choice about which part of that aspect of fandom or like ethereal religiosity it's going to care about and explore. And this happens to be one that's centered on internal aspects of our life. And that's meaningful, I think. Yeah.

It's baseball as a language. that you speak with your family members and your friends and that goes through generations. And even though now it's like a lot, the way we talk about baseball is much different. We talk way more about contracts. We talk way more about advanced statistics. There are still certain core principles of it that translate

so that even if you were somebody who is watching the Black Sox, you'd understand the game if you watched it today. I actually like that James Earl Jones has the giant baseball encyclopedia from the lady. Yeah. He's like, who the hell is Melon? He put it through the pages. Now he would just have like his iPad.

Yeah. I think this is less of a baseball movie than the other one. Say, to me, this is, obviously it's a baseball movie, but it's like a life movie. Yeah. Bull Durham's a baseball movie with a romance in it. And it's a borderline rom-com. And whether it's a, we'll litigate that when we do our Bull Durham podcast. Major League is like a pure baseball movie.

And the natural is in old school why we idolize baseball hero movies. So, like, you add all those together and you have, like, the full baseball movie package. But this one, to me, is more about life. Like, I remember I saw this in college with my friend Jay Morris. And we had no real idea what it was about other than we like Costner. And, I mean, the last 20 minutes are just unassailable. They're so good. Gutting.

And it's like... You tell me when you want to do this. I feel like we can only do it once. Chris and I were definitely not texting each other at midnight. last night about how we were both sobbing on our couches. I think I'm going to make it. And then it's when Graham steps over the sideline, I was like, oh, crap, here it comes.

Kills me. But those, the lights and stuff, and it was one of the few times I've been in a movie theater where the credits were going and everybody was just like, yeah, yeah. Just that was it. It was like, I need medical attention. I need water.

I need some electro lights. It just was, it was just so good. It was one of those things, you know, it was one of those places. Like, I remember the movie theater I saw it, you know, and there's not a lot of movies like that. For as timeless as it is, it's actually pretty fixed in a time. Like, it, you know, I've talked to my mom a lot about this movie because she was around the age that Ray is in this movie and had similar issues with her dad who were like, you had guys coming back from World War II and then their kids were countercultural or at least like, you know, they were, they were anti-war, they were hippies, they were listening to like, right? rock and roll. They were expressing themselves in ways that never happened before. And a lot of them had falling outs with their fathers who were just like, I don't understand. Like I, you know, I came

back from World War II and tried to build something and you're rejecting it somehow. Now, of course, there were all these other things happening that made that the case. But I thought that that was really interesting, that that's like this is about boomers. And I think we probably all like look back on boomers and are like, thanks a lot. But, you know, this is a very specific story. And his story of like rejecting his dad and going through the counterculture and then trying to be a father himself is a really, really recognizable one. Well, it's basically every Bruce Springsteen concert. Yeah.

Yeah. I was growing up. Yeah. She's just being my guitar. My dad hated it. Yeah. But it's like it tapped in a lot of that. Let me ask you, Mallory.

Yes. This is a father and son movie basically at the root of its core. Fathers and sons connecting through baseball, which is also kind of the theme of, of the natural. Mm-hmm. you were a mother I mean I'm sorry you were a daughter and a dad

but you had the same baseball relationship when you watch these movies did you just put yourself in the man part or did it make you mad that there wasn't a daughter and dad movie well I think it is a daughter and dad movie because of Karen as well

so that's part of what I think works so the adorable Karen Gabby crushing it from movie one I have that come up later. Just an incredible daughter performance by her. But I, you know, I really agree with what Chris just said about it being anchored in a moment

in time. And obviously the 60s plays a huge part in Ray's identity and Annie's identity. But I think that it is simultaneously timeless and genderless. And that's part of what makes it so lasting. And so meaningful to so many people is that you can cast yourself into really any of those roles. You can relate to Ray. You can relate to Annie. You can relate to John. You can really We're into Taney Busfield right now, you know. The bus is back. You can relate to the...

Baseball players get here. Book burners? You know, anyone. Eva Braun. And, you know, for me, baseball is one of the most important things in my relationship with my dad. Yeah.

You know, and it's how I fell in love with sports, but also really with storytelling. Yeah. You know? Here we go. How many minutes in, aren't we? 26 minutes in. Oh, no.

This is going to be a tough two hours. Some of my earliest memories of thinking about stories in any capacity, any shape, or form, or my dad talking to me about the Orioles, about Earl Weaver and the three-run homer. My first memory of going to a sporting event is him taking me to Memorial Stadium before they tore it down. And so when I'm watching this movie, I'm not. not thinking, oh, it's a father and a son, and I'm not a part of that. I'm thinking this is two people who shared something special and something pushed them apart for a while, but ultimately this force in their lives brought them back together.

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Sling.com slash rewatchables. promo code Ringer. offer available or new customers only available but it may vary by location to other restrictions apply and now for the nominees Ray meet Shoeless Joe Is this heaven?

No it's Iowa Ray Leota Wanted to give us a little Leota Really quick Just an imitation It's a year before Goodfellas Yeah But he's got some steam

He was in something wild It's like who's that guy He was like a critics darling Yeah some of these actors hit that point where it's like oh, that guy's going to be something and he was right in that kind of wheelhouse. Still has never seen this movie?

Right. Yeah. And thought the script was silly, right? Really dumb. Yeah, right. My favorite thing about, we could talk about, I don't know if we're going to get to this later, but I do want to say that.

Chantics. Well, Chantics. I thought it was great that Leota plays Joe Jackson like a guy from 1989 rather than, look, see, I want to play baseball. See? Rather than some of the other Black Sox guys who were out there.

Jimmy Cagney. Yeah, just because I think that it would have been easy to be like, what all this corn doing here? I'm used to comeisky pack. You know, like, he plays it like a really sensitive kind of, like, do-eyed guy. And I think it's perfect because he does seem like a ghost in this. And he doesn't know if he is. Do you think they should have filmed a Chantex commercial with Ray Leota in the cornfield?

Yes, absolutely. What do you think it would have been like if, second half of Goodfellas Henry Hill had come out of the cornerfield. Super jumping. There are helicopters up there? It's going up. They're coming to get me. So that was the one.

Ray goes to Cambridge in his awesome Volkswagen van and meets Terrence man. I was hoping I wasn't going to have to do it this way. What the hell is that? It's a gun. What do you think it is? It's your finger. No, it's not. It's a gun.

Yeah, let me see it. Get out of here. I'm not going to show you my gun. Now look. not going to hurt you. I just need you to come with me for a little while. What are you doing? I want to beat you with a crowbar and then you go away. Whoa, wait.

That whole scene is really great. Yeah. The slamming the door, slamming the door. Door's slightly a jar. Is that a gun in your pocket? Yeah. It's really funny. Terrence man flips really fast. Like, hey, can I get your soda? Cookies. You know, but you know once he gets in the door after he tells him at the end of the movie, like, I did give that interview.

You know once Ray gets in the door that Terrence is like, I believe him, because he starts talking about John Consol. Great suspenders by him. Suspenders and belt from... Now, Jay. You two have spent a lot of time in Boston, Massachusetts. I have to ask you this question.

Yeah. Are there that many Jewish people there? Yes. I was really struck by that, watching. Really struck. it's like half of Brooklyn. Yeah, Brooklyn's like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Hebrew letters on the windows? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. But come toward Boston. Apparently, that was filmed in Dubuque. Yeah, they never did the wide.

It seemed like there was a lot of after the fact, wide shots of... I think they must have obviously done stuff in Fenway. But I think where James Earl Jones lives is in Dubuque, like all that. And I was, because I was watching that, I was like, God, this looks good.

And I was like, oh, this must have been a place where they could like wet down the streets and stuff. They go to Fenway. Something happens on the scoreboard. James Earl Jones pretends he doesn't see it, drops them off. You turn around. He's standing in the street.

Great. Moonlight Grum! You saw it! Moonlight Graham. So what? New York Giants, 1922. He played one game. He never got to bet.

You saw him. I see you, right? Chisholm, Minnesota. We were the only ones who saw it. Did you hear the voice, too? That part's amazing. The nighttime scrimmage with Archie. The first time Frank Whaley walks out there?

Yeah. The ghosts are just playing 9.30 at night. Yeah. Using the lights. It's incredible. Amy Madigan turns out for them. That whole scene is, I really enjoy that. That's like the most baseball that we have in the movie.

It's basically like a form in a baseball scene. Yeah. I mean, I think that when the thing I love is when Leota first shows up, and he's hitting him fly balls. I got to say, I don't think I get hit. If a ghost baseball player showed up in my backyard, I don't know that I could hit him fly balls. Like, it's been a while.

You wouldn't go right into fungo mode. He had been prepping, though. Yeah, he'd been prepping. You think he's out there, like just to be p. Every just in case of early 20th century baseball players shows up, I got to get my flyball technique down. Yes, except one caveat. The only thing that happens there that makes me think he's not ready to instantly go into game mode

is that he's wearing Timberlens. But he wears on the entire movie. I checked. I don't know. Because I was like, this guy probably wears Chucks. You know, I mean, or this guy wears like just like a pair of Nike running shoes. And it's Timberlands the entire time. It's really, really strange.

The James Earl Jones speech. Yep. Yeah. We get to that later. And then the actual ending. So when the ending starts with... Those are my six nominees, unless you want to add anything. I don't know if you're...

Are you into the Bula, Annie Bula? You can't just pad rewatchable stats. They have to, like, be the O.G's rewatchable. To be fair, these scenes are like basically 15-minute sequences. That was one of my questions. So are we, when you say the entire ending, are we not isolating Moonlight's sacrifice and Catch With Dad is two separate scenes? Moonlight sacrifices is its own scene.

Okay. So then that's got to be in there. So Karen falling and Moonlight saving her is one scene. and then... Oh, yeah, that's one. That has to be. It has to be. Yeah.

I have some thoughts on that scene. Oh, okay. I have some. I do really like just the opening kind of catch-up montage. I love it. It's really good. It goes so wrong in so many movies. And that one, it's actually like, oh, this is good.

One of the secretly best parts about this movie is that the voice comes in the first scene. Yeah. There's not like a 30-minute buildup of like life on farming in Iowa. and like a couple of like, you know, fake B-CD plots about like what it's like to be a farmer. Dropping the ante off at school. I'm in the field and the voice comes. And then the way that they do it,

while it is kind of funky, Amy Madigan is such like a quirky lady that you could totally see her buying it. Yeah. She just seems like she's done a lot of drinks. Like my wife would not buy it. If I was just like, guess what I just heard. I don't feel like she smoked enough weed in this movie.

But you know that she had some special patch in the cornfield. She's got her vape pen with her at all times, I'm sure. I mean, she does ask him, you sure this isn't an... And she's like, maybe it's a flash forward. What else did you have? Ray meeting Moonlight for the first time. And when they walk back to his office... Can I walk with you?

Yeah. That entire conversation is poetry. And even though it is actually quite removed from the ultimate emotional climax of the film, I think it's some of the most resonant. Dude, when they rack focus in it, the Godfather is on the marquee. Yeah. One of the years 10 best?

Yeah. Come on, man. That's the thing about that whole sequence is it's one of the parts of the film. It is emblematic of the magic realism. Yeah. Where the surrealist nature of how the story is being told works seamlessly and you opt in without question, And yet, ultimately, to your point about, is this a fantasy story?

Is this a story about baseball? No, it's a story about life. And, of course, the best fantasy stories, best any stories are going to be about life. That's when it all works in perfect harmony. Because we get some of our best philosophical insights in that exchange, too, about basically the meaning of life and what anybody is pursuing or looking for at any given moment in time and how it haunts you if that passes you by. Yeah.

Last first, Lancaster movie. It's supposed to be Jimmy Stewart, or at least offered to Jimmy Stewart. you stepped on half-accented and research. Jesus, Chris, play by the rules. What is crazy about this movie is he's just like, oh, cool, it's 1972 and it's like not ridiculous at all. That's perfect. It's great.

It's like, oh, yeah, we've gone backwards 17 years. Great. This is why it is more of a fantasy movie than a baseball movie, in my opinion. So, what's the most rewatchable scene? It's a tough one. I got to go with the most rewatchable scene, I think for me, is

when he goes to Boston because it's just like a really really they have great chemistry and um I think that it's really evocative of like this reclusive countercultural icon who's now just like surrounded by tapes and books and just wants to be left alone I love like the locks on his doors that's like a rewatchable scene I only say that because basically the last 30 minutes of this movie I can only watch like once every 10 years yeah it's yeah it's also like I'm like let's just dial this up on YouTube and like cry it out, you know. I've seen this movie a lot and I've seen it enough times that now him going to see

Moonlight, uh, uh, uh, Terrence Man for the first time. That is not my favorite scene. Yeah, yeah. It's just like a really well written, well acted five minutes and I just like it. And I like those two together. And you could have given me four hours of deleted scenes of them just driving in the van. Yeah. Just make it small talk.

I also love the, uh, you hungry? Not really. 1989 era of research. So he couldn't Google Terrence Mann and baseball. So it's got through the entire library to find like an old interview where he mentions Emmett's Field. I mean, that was the case in 93-94 too. That really didn't flip until the late 90s.

I thought just that moment though when he's just like, you gave an interview where you said Brooklyn. And he's just like, I don't even remember thinking that. It's so heartbreaking for him. And then he goes, oh, you're from the 60s. What do you think was most rewatchable? For me, it's moonlight crossing the line to save Karen. And then Ray saying, oh, my God, you can't go back.

That just kills me every single time. I actually think about that. That's the first thing I think about when I think about the movie, more so than the catch with that at the end. That's actually, to me, the emotional gut punch and high point of the entire film, because I think that's where every single theme and central tension of the movie is actually fully realized. You know, the idea of what you're pursuing, what you're chasing, hope, purpose, sacrifice, where we find meaning in our life, all of it is just right there in that one second. Sneaky, good, great scene is when they pick up Frank Whaley hitchhiking too. And they're just like, I need good karma.

And then he's like, I hear there are towns like where they'll give you a day job and you can play baseball in the week. And you're just like, what is this guy? Why is he looking like he's in standby me? And you're like, oh. I'm going to ruin that scene. you later. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Nice little Frank Whaley moment. Oh, great. Nice little stretch here for him. The doors? Yeah. Yeah. All right. What's your pick?

My pick is, though, when he sees Terrence Mann for the first time. I love that scene. I also love, I mean, really, the pick is the Jamesville Jones speech. It's just incredible. All the girls stop playing baseball. They're watching him. He just crushes it. Yeah.

Baseball is a part of us, Ray. What's Hage the best? James Horner's score Unequivocally. I mean, arguably who won the movie. Stolen over and over again in sporting events, other movies, documentaries, trailers.

It's just had a long 30-year run. It's also like it plays for five seconds and you're like, I need to excuse myself. It's just like got such an incredible sense memory to it. I think this is the first time that I've won. watch this movie with surround sound speakers? Yeah.

It had been a long time since I'd seen it. And to hear the different pops of the different instruments and surges and the tension from different speakers in the room, it's like you do feel like you're in a stadium. He's got to do something so hard in the end, too, because there is essentially three moments in the last 20 minutes that would be the emotional climax of any other movie. And they have to, like, double it and then triple it in the last 20 minutes. And the music does that. Yeah, there's a couple of great scores during the stretch

because I think Shawshank had, you know, was another one that had an iconic score, but there's just certain movies where you just hear the music and it feels like it's hard to imagine the movie if it didn't have the score, and I think this is one of them. I would have played for nothing. I like when Shilless Joe says that.

Now we have all these spoiled guys. Go get paid. Bryce Harper, just getting cash and checks. So we're talking about what? Shillish Joe would have played for nothing. It's a personal thing, but late 80s Fenway Park really, really got to me. Was that Archway? Is that the name of the caterer that was there at the time?

Yeah, it just, you know, it's just... You see that it's two dogs and two beers for seven bucks? All of it. It's just, there weren't a lot of movies filmed at Fenway Park. And this was probably the best time. It was right there in the Joe Morgan, the Morgan Magic. Yeah, what's the 88 team like? Morgan Magic.

That was 16 straight during that summer. Is it like Ellis Berks and Mike Greenwell? Yeah, yeah. That was a really fun team. And then the A's just kicked our ass. I really liked that stretch. The house, the Kinsella house, that's like a top seven or eight movie house, right? Still exist in the form that it was in back then.

But that's one of those houses. If you just had that property and you put it in LA, it would be like $700 million. Yeah. Maybe the highest price house before I really like it. I really enjoy the house. the White Sox ghost Busting Ray's balls when she calls for dinner.

So I like that he has this chemistry with the ghost. He's on the team. That'd be amazing if he turned around. He's like, how about I plow this whole field? You guys go back to hell. Cheaters!

My farm, my rules. He was part of a dick. What if he did that whole thing where he was just like, he gets to be the best player? so he was being like out there, like, smashing homeways. Gabby Hoffman, as a daughter, mentioned her earlier. All-time adorable.

Incredible. It's her and Hayden Pain and Tear and remember the Titans in the finals of cutest daughters. I remember. Maybe Chumsklee, Anna Chumskley? In which movie? What's the one with the McCauley Coulin and the bees? That's not a sports movie, though.

Oh, okay. I was going sports movies only. Yeah, if we were opening it up, McCauley Cokin, I mean, there's a lot of, There's been a lot of cute kids. This one, I remember when my daughter was this specific age, and it's probably like age six. My daughter at age six is my favorite human being who's ever lived.

I just absolutely would go back in time. My field of dreams would be to go back just to hang out with that six-year-old daughter. They're just so adorable. They're smarter than they should be, but they're still super innocent. They just... Seems like they want to hang out of you. They love everything. They're just in.

There's a precociousness to Karen. That is very winning. It's great. It's just nice to see that age. represented a movie. Terrence made incredible character? James Baldwin meets J.D. Sallinger in the book. It's J.D. Salinger

in the book, right? So they were afraid that if they used Salinger in the film that they would get sued. I think he made them afraid. Yeah. So Voice of the 60s got diso chanted by the 70s, civil rights pioneer, major player in the anti-war movement, hung out with the Beatles and Bob Dylan,

March with MLK, made the cover of Newsweek, coined the phrase, make love, not war. Did we have a writer like this? I wish we had a Terrence Man. There are guys like Baldwin, Norman Mailer, you know, who were around back then who did a lot of that kind of writing. Terrence Man would have done really well. Yeah.

As I mentioned earlier, the whole movie for me could have been Costner and James O. Jones just driving in the Volkswagen fan talking about giving each other shit. Yeah. The Annie Ray relationship. Great marriage. Good marriage. Really, really believable.

couple. Yeah. Really great chemistry. We're going to say something? I'll save it. I think it's very realistic, like, even like what she wears to go to bed. You know what I mean?

Like her, like one of his old t-shirts is what she wears. It seems like they have a lot of history. Yeah. I like son of a bitch died before I could take it back. Oh, Christ. That scene. That scene's kind of gut-wrenching. It's like, what's the meanest thing you could

say to your dad Joe Jackson's a criminal it's like whoa what the fuck that's also a wound now you've crossed the line I love that moment

where he's just like why didn't you like why did you have like a falling out with your dad and he's just like looking at the wheel and he's like

that's when I read the boat rocker by Terrence and he's like no don't you hang that shit like I it's not my fault

you wouldn't play catch with your father all of their scenes are really good really really high high level it's just high PER. Yeah.

I like Bussfield walking across the field and interrupting not knowing the ghosts are there and the ghost starts chasing them after. It's just really good. And I actually don't know how they timed it. It doesn't seem like there's special effects with it. Yeah. The pitcher threw it.

It just missed them and the batter had to swing and miss. But all that was really realistic. Anything else age the best for you? Costner's hair. Everything about Costner. Again, I just would like to bottle him. Pay a moments of worth of attention into the jeans.

The tightness of the jeans. They don't make those like that anymore, right? No, they certainly don't. I think disgruntled writer as plot point has aged really, really well. Yeah, and this idea of the recluse who is, you're finding him at this fulcrum, this pivot point between when he was. this force of nature in the world who influenced everybody's life, and when he is now going to get to benefit from other people influencing him in some way. And the way that his writing is discussed, you know, particularly with Ray and Annie,

but just aura that kind of pulsates over every conversation about him leading up to the meeting in particular. That is obviously about literature and the way. and the weight of storytelling, but it's also a stand-in for baseball and the role that that sport in any kind of tradition and pillar of American society plays in our life, and it's just incredibly effective

in basically every way. And I think just more broadly, this is like overly simplistic, but what's aged the best is just like the themes of the movie, you know? I mean... Or you could say they've aged the worst. Do you think so?

Holy shit. What a take. Why? Let's stop. into that a little. I was going to get... Can we hold it for what stage the worst? Sure, yeah.

We can go, we'll debate the point there. Give me your what stage the best finally. Give you your pick. Coming up next. I'm going to tell you why fathers and sons

aren't as interesting as you may think. I got this. Hold on. Are you lumping in like America and the idea of the American pastime there as well

or is that separate? We'll hold it for what stage the worst. What stage is the best for you, Chris Ryan? I'm going to go Amy and Ray. Annie and Ray. I'm going to go

with the blend of the magic realism and the role of hope and purpose as a driving force in somebody's life. Sounds like Bill's going to dissuade you with that notion. What are you the best for you, Bill? Karen. Late 80s Fenway Park, but that's a selfish, selfish pick for just me only. You know what I just realized? We missed out on in this movie, too.

What? Timing-wise, we wouldn't have been able to get it, but it would have been great if we could have gotten one Rayliota walking off the field going, Karen! What's age to worst? Baseball. Okay. Playing off your point.

The big theme in this movie, everything leads up to the James Earl Jones speech, which is awesome. And how baseball is the American pastime and it's a part of us. The country ebbs and flows, but the one constant is baseball. And that is not age well. Because I don't think that's the case anymore. So. Sorry, Mal. But to your own point from this very podcast right here today.

If you don't want it to be a baseball movie, that's okay. Because it can be a life movie, right? So the maybe baseball as a vessel for exploring these ideas has not aged well in your mind. I think baseball is eternal. And, you know, if I look, if I think it has aged well. I don't, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying his point about baseball in 1989 was an incredible point. It was totally true.

It was like, all this shit's happened, but we've always had baseball. Yeah, the role... And now it's like, but all now all this shit's happen in baseball. But I think that the one thing that's resonant is this idea that the country now, like, it was in the late 60s, like, it probably always has been in different ways, but in a very, like, pointed way now is in turmoil, right? And that even if it's not baseball, and even if when you go to sports, it's, it's, you know, it's... itself is a sociopolitical mindfield or like a rhetorical mindfield where everybody's arguing their best takes

and stuff like that. But that obviously like we still love sports on a really like elemental level. And it just maybe isn't as like collectively shared. Like what happened to you when the Red Sox won happened to Mays when the Cubs won? It happened to me when the Eagles won the Super Bowl. You know, like it happened to you

when the Ravens won the Super Bowl. It doesn't have to be your baseball team doing well. By the way, shout out to Macy who would have been on this podcast if he hadn't moved and quit on us four years ago. That's a late switchplayed to the gun. It's like a seven-dating thing. I just think we spend most of our time with baseball now talking about what's wrong with baseball and how to fix baseball.

And why did this have to happen with baseball? Oh, shit, this happened. And then you have this counter of like, hey, man, I still like baseball. Is that cool? And there's more like a strong. In 1989, there is no struggle. Tell me if you think I love baseball period.

This read is right. So I think that the way of thinking about baseball, this field of dream style of thinking about baseball, peaks with Sosa and Maguire and then gets completely destroyed when that is turned out to be bullshit. And it was never the same. Because I remember the Lupica book.

Summer 98. And I was like, this is like incredible. I was like blown away by it. I remember. That book is now a comedy. Now it's unbelievable to read that now, knowing what we know now. And between that and the fact that most of the conversation around baseball is largely about numbers and... How do we fix it?

And fixing it. Rather than like... What's wrong with it? Let's just let this like elementally perfect pastoral thing take place. I think that... And that's my point. Yeah, that's completely like almost inarguably true. But I still think that the old...

Ultimately, the message about baseball is not about the purity of the game as a creation. It's about how the game allows you to unlock something in your life. Some aspect, some understanding about something about yourself or other people or the way that you relate to them or to your own identity. And, you know, that line about it's a part of our past. That's still true. And I think that element of the timeless nature of just investing in something. that still really appeals and speaks to me. And I think if you just sort of make the mental shift of it's not necessarily the baseball itself that holds up,

but this idea of how history shapes the present and the future, right? And that something that you care about can still be this portal to something else in your life. Yeah. That is like an eternal message. I think we're both right. Let's not be naive. I mean, like the things that, you know, in the 80s you started seeing gross, Astrodome style stadiums.

You had Pete Rose. You had, you know, like all this stuff happening. Cocaine. Yeah. And let's not put too final point on it. Terence Mann wouldn't have been allowed to play in the majors. You know what I mean? That's like a moment that you don't really,

they don't really acknowledge is like. It's coming up. Yeah. So it's like baseball has stains all over it. Just like America has stains all over it. Yeah. And I think that there is still, though, something to what Mal is saying where it's actually

it's like there are certain parts about baseball that doesn't matter who's playing it. It's like the space in the game because it's like there's a lot of like changeover, there's a lot of like waiting in between things happening. There's like an element to which it's like a rural game usually held in a city. You know, it's like largely like parks,

but all the teams are in cities. That's a great point. And it's like you're leaving behind a certain kind of way of living for like four hours just to like be around the ground. grass, you know. There's parts of it that are just never going to change. That's a really great point. And that's why the setting is just so inspired and so perfect. Like, you look at the movie and the cinematography, I think, has aged really well. Yeah, I agree. It's just literally

like, oh, what, nothing's more American than apple pie. Well, like, literally nothing's more American than a cornfield in Iowa, right? And so many times in the movie, somebody talks about the smell, you know, the smell of a glove by your face or the feel of the grass in your feet and that visceral like physicality to the thing that allows you to connect with it that has aged well. That part of it. All right.

There's almost a nostalgia for it in an era where digitally we're just removed from everything. What else is aged the worst? First 20 minutes a little slow. Let's sped it up by three minutes. You know, like the, oh, he's suddenly in a Christmas sweater and we're realizing how much time has passed. That always makes me laugh when he's in the Christmas What's the field meetings like after the winter?

It's like you have to re-sodd that whole thing. Costa driving while drinking from a coffee mug really seems old for some reason. The thermos is classic. The thing's like bobbing. Litton still does that. Who does? Juliet. Really?

Yeah, she'll have like a mug in her car. Yeah. That's all I got. I don't think a lot of this movie has aged badly. I have two small ones. Okay. One concussion protocol. Oh.

Because. When Karen falls. Yeah. Okay, she's choking on the hot dog. I get it. But, like, check her head and neck. She fell from the top of the bleachers. Maybe general practitioners were just better back then.

This giant is joking. Okay. Can you look at the back of her head and her neck? He really does solve it fast. Kids are pretty durable, though, right? I know. The blue lips gave it away. If somebody once had a six-year-old daughter, that kid's crying for 10 minutes.

minutes. She recovers really fast. There's really no tears at all. The next one is small. It's just kind of, you know, as members of the media, obviously, made me just a little sad, saying, I mean, he made the cover of Newsweek as definitive proof for somebody's relevance and celebrity. Yeah.

We're a long way removed from that. Casting what ifs. The internet claims Tom Hanks was originally off of the Royal Reconcept. and turned it down. Nobody knows if this actually happened. If I ever have them on a podcast, I'm going to ask them. They did not consider Costner originally. They didn't think he'd want to follow up for Bull Durham.

He became interested. Thought it would be This Generations It's a Wonderful Life. I kind of feel like that's what happened. What is this generation? What is that Generations that's a Wonderful Life? It's probably this movie. There's a lot of strands of Jimmy Stewart in here, especially with, you know, the Harvey.

I think that there was a kind of Hollywood movie that that was being made in the late 80s. A lot of times they were made by Castle Rock where it was like city slickers, this big, that were like real like throwbacks to that kind of Capra movie. And then Robin Williams unsuccessfully tried to make that movie like four different times.

What dreams may come. Yeah, that was a little bit more psychedelic. That was the worst version of this movie. Jimmy Stewart, ironically, was the original choice from Moonlight Graham, turned it down, and that's why they threw him in the movie.

You mentioned the J.D. Salinger thing. And then Burt Lancaster turned it down. Changes mine. A friend, baseball fan, told him he had to do it. So there you go. Deanne Waiter's Award. This is actually pretty tight. So, yeah, let's do it.

I don't think James Earl Jones is eligible. No, no, no, no. Frank Whaley, I really liked, but I don't feel like it was a Dian Wader's performance by him. Busfield's pretty good. He's doing the most. It's a lot of the same what's Costor's thing? Ray.

Ray, you got to sell the farm. Got to sell. My partners have a great deal. Ray. Ray. When Annie hangs up the phone, why didn't you tell? Yeah.

I would say Busfield, but one of the White Sox guys I really liked. I have Art LaFleur. That says Chick-Gandle, the first basement. Check in the first basement. I put this uniform on.

You get a cigarette? Yeah, I do like that guy. All of those guys are great, but yeah, he's a... I haven't had a cigarette for 16 years. I'm only thinking of this because we're talking about the Busfield character. Do you remember doing the bills at a kitchen table? Like paying your bills and like having all of them out and like going through a balancing the checkbook? I like have vivid memories of my parents doing that and then fighting.

So we'll give... We'll give Busfield the way to... award and then we'll give the Joey Pants award to who is the guy, Art LaFleure because I don't know who that guy is. You don't think Gabby gets the Dion. Gabby's on my list as well. Gabby Hoffman.

That's interesting. Do you feel like it was like a heat check by her? That's pretty good. I kind of like that. Every moment is a heat check. She's great. Every moment. She's really good in this.

She's great. I really feel like my daughter at age six was as great as she was. He's bringing my daughter to King's games. She'd yell at the goalies. I feel like I feel like Karen would have done that in Iowa. They had an NHL team.

You think Karen's a heckler? Yeah, absolutely. All right, I agree. I'm giving it to Karen. Sorry, Vosfield. Half-Fest internet research. We're behind on time, so we've got to zip through this. Original title, Shoeless Joe.

That's the name of the book. Original title for the book, Dreamfield. They re-knit, apparently the test audiences hated Shoalus Joe. They thought it was about like a homeless person or something. So they changed it. Nobody still knows to this day who, the voice was. Rumor that it's Ed Harris. That's the rumor. I think

it was Ray Leota. I'm in the camp. Let's not over complicate it. I feel like Ray Leota would have told us. Ray Leota hates this movie. He's never even seen it. He has hated. He's just he's enchanting. He's not watching it. Legendarily, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck extras in the filmway in Parksson. Filming began in 88. They had to speed it up because Costa

had to film Revenge. Awesome. He's like, hey, I got to have sex with Manna and stuff. The Corn grew so fast. became taller than Costner. They had to, like, put boxes out for him to stand on. This is good. This is some deep dive stuff. Some of that can sell a farm, some of those scenes were taken on the property of Don

Lansing. The baseball scenes were shot in the neighboring farm of Al Amos Camp. After the shooting, Al Amos Camp again grew corn on his property. Don Lansing said, no, this feels like this could be a tourist destination. Smart. Did not charge for admission or parking. Only revenue from the souvenir shop. By the film's 20th anniversary,

65,000 people visited annually. Would you ever go? I would actually. Sold it in 2011 for an undisclosed fee believed to be around $5.4 million. Winner, Don Lansing. Who's the best? Don Lansing's checkbook.

It's a great job by him. Final shot of the film, big community event. One more piece of half-ass internet research. I have a couple more. Final shot of the film, big community event, 1,500 volunteers. And they couldn't figure out how to make it look cool, so they had them turn on and off their high beams.

The Real Moonlight Graham did play one major league game, but it was in June 1905, not 1922. In real life, Shulis Joe and Ty Cob are friends. That was bullshit, that part. Did Ty Cobb have friends? Apparently, Shulis Joe. This is crazy. The shot of the line drive knocking over the bag of baseballs next to Costner from Shulis Joe was a real scene and was not supposed to happen.

And Costner's reaction was 100% genuine and he stayed in character. And the line drive almost said. What a pro. So committed to his craft. I can't believe he also just had a deuce. Like he had a curveball for this. I can't believe his jeans didn't split. His genitals would have been flying out.

They had. James and Jones. hates baseball, but somehow... That seems right. And this and the sandlot in five years span. Does he eat Star Wars too? There are deleted scenes for this movie that I didn't watch

because I don't like deleted scenes, but the deleted scenes where Ray getting his hearing checked, Ray buying baseball equipment, Ray getting lost on the way to Fenway, and Ray and Terrence watching batting practice. I take all those. President George W. Bush named this his favorite film. If you build it, he will come was voted as the number 39 movie quote by AIFI.

On the top 100. What was your, what else do you have? W.P. Kinsella, you know, he was on the set for a lot of the movie. He said he found it incredibly boring. I laughed at that. But that his daughter enjoyed it because she had a little bit of a romance with Ray Leota on the set. Hmm. Yeah.

Wow. Oh my goodness. Incredible. I have a couple. Yeah. So Ray Kinsella, obviously the author's last name is Kinsella. So the natural thing to think is named after himself. But he said that he's actually named after two Salinger characters.

Richard Kinsella, who's in Catcher in the Rye. And Ray Kinsella is a character in a Salinger story, a young girl in 1941 with no waste at all. And then Don Buford, one of the coaches who helped the actors learn how to play baseball. Baltimore, Don Buford's father of Damon? Apparently so. Also brought in USC coaches to help advise on the film. Baseball was believable. Hey, speaking of believable, luminary is revolutionized in the way we listen to podcasts.

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I cannot wait to listen. There's one specific part that I don't want to give away where I really needed you because Sean and Chris were genuinely horrified for three minutes. I might record a commentary track just on my own. That would be amazing. All right. The director's commentary of the American Pie rewatchables. Sean, I think, swallowed his own tongue.

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Wow. Apex Mountain. I say yes for Koster I don't think it's Dances with Wolves. I think it's this movie. I think this movie sets up dances with wolves. Wow. Once he pulls this movie off,

it's like, wow, that guy's the biggest star we have. This is the kind of case you take to the Apex Mountain Supreme Court. And I don't know where Chief Justice Roberts comes down on what, like, so are we talking about. Whether it's wolves? Is he ever cooler? He's never cooler. He's in this movie, he's cooler in Boulderm?

No, no, no, no, no, you're right. He's cooler in Bulderrum. Yes. I'm almost talking about those movies as a pair, 88, 89. The combo of them, I think. Plus, no way out, which is an awesome movie that's age really well. I can tell you you want to do a no way out, no way out, realogables. I'm here for you.

I love that movie. Well, because people would say dances as wolves, he wins all the Oscars. career-wise. He directed it. Everybody said it was going to be a bust. But the reason he was able to direct that movie was because of the role he was on and the fact that he was the most

bankable actor and a dollar. Which one? Is Robin Hood before or after dances? Well after. Okay. I say it's this. I don't think he's ever been more likable, had a higher likeability rate across America,

had the ability to do more projects. And everybody was in on Kevin Costa. Yeah. When he started doing dates, with Bulls, people were like, fuck that guy. Why is he he's going to direct it? And then it came out and then it was like, it's going to win all these Oscars and people like,

fuck that movie, Goodfell should have won. Like there was already a backlash. This movie, there's no backlash. Cameron! James Earl Jones, I don't really know enough about James Earl Jones's career. I think like you could, you know, either being the voice of Darth Vader or like

Othello or something. You know what I mean? Like, he's had a lot of really big. This feels like the James Earl Jonesiest kind of just, longest lasting performance he's going to have. I don't think there's a lot of people watching like Othello. I don't know the answer to that. Timothy Busfield was also in 30-something.

No question this is his. And directing, like, I think he directed a bunch of West Wings and he's directed like a bunch of sork and stuff, I think, or he's been in it. Amy Madigan, yes. For sure. Wow. Right? Yeah.

Gabby Hoffman, no. No. Iowa. Hmm. Is there anything else in the conversation? Great time for Iowa. Late 80s Iowa. Like, is there a Kirk Ferrence game that is big?

I was going to say Iowa's crucial role in the passage. Did Steve Alford make an Iowa run? I can't even think of a better moment in Iowa history. It had already grabbed the reins as one of like the key states and presidential process. It's hard to top literally being a stand-in for heaven. That's true. Stove to top. That's true.

Iowa. Yeah. 100%. Baseball. It might have been the Apex Mountain for baseball. This movie in particular, or the 80s? This is the end of the 80s. Great baseball movie decade.

We've had just a slew of awesome baseball movies cresting with this. The National Boulder and Field of Dreams all the 80s. The 86 World Series, which was like one of the four or five most iconic world series. in the history of the sport. Then you had an 88, you had the twins. Oh, God. Bucket. And that whole thing.

Yeah. And the small town, wait, small town baseball isn't dead. And you had all that. Leading toward this movie came out before the earthquake series. Yeah. Which was actually like a bummer baseball moment. But that 89, like just a lot of good stuff happening. Steroids aren't involved yet.

Yeah, ConSaco and McGuire. They're definitely not on steroids. We figured out how to. We didn't know. We figured out how to successfully... These guys look like they're in Pacific Rim. We're like, that's normal. Bash Brothers, of course.

Cleaned up cocaine. Figured I how to successfully integrate people other than white people playing baseball. That was good. I don't know. What about Shulis Joe in terms of him being a sympathetic figure? Well, because eight men out and this back to back. Eight men out, another good baseball movie. Yeah, great baseball movie.

David Stray Thorn. It's, I mean, it's not... wrong or unreasonable to say that most people now, I mean, 1919 was a long time ago. Most people now, what they know about the Shula and the Black Sox is from this movie. And 8 men out. And 8 men out. Not from, oh, well, my understanding of when the baseball first had a commissioner is actually because Judge Landis had to rule, you know, that's not what people are about.

By the way, eight men out for the people out there who still read. Anybody still read out there? People read books in with Craig, your generation read books. Not really, no. They just watch for getting so remorse. The Eight Men Out book is really good. It is kind of a staple. If you like reading sports books, it has to be on the list.

And it lays out everything that happened and how unfair a couple of the things were. He's a tragic figure. Saul Rubinick, they knew a word. I think it goes to Eva Braun in the PTA meeting. Bula? Yeah. That's good. I'm good with it.

that. It's it's not Amy Madigan. Oh. Are we sure? Do you have like some notes on Amy Madden? You're like sure? We're at picking nits. I had some Amy Madigan notes as well. Okay. Let's hear of. You can talk me in Amy Madigan for that. Yeah. Bueh is pretty over the top though. I think it works. Yeah. But it's it's definitely she's literally punching the air. Yeah. She's walking through the law. She's sliding into the locker. Perfect. Her post-field of dreams career.

certainly would emphasize that maybe she was lucky to get this part. I don't know who else I would have cast, though. Would this be a Meg Ryan? Oh. Yeah, but if I think that they're just like, they seem like a normal couple. I think Chris is a little sweet on Amy Madigan in this movie. I just literally, I like their relationship. Tiny bit sweet on it.

It's entirely impossible. I adore my wife. She would never let me do this. Right. Yes. All right. That's the perfect segue, right? That brings us to Pickin'Nits.

She'd be like, you need an MRI. That's what she would say. The first thing of picking nits I wrote was, has anyone's wife ever been this understanding? Yeah. Right. Ever, the history of mankind. Other than the wives who... She doesn't want him to go to Boston.

Right. But it's okay to mow their cornfield. Right. There are those people who marry the serial killers in prison. Yeah. When they can only have. sex on like the conjugal visits or whatever. Those people are probably more understanding, but it's close.

Hey, I'm going to plow our cornfield to build a baseball stadium. I heard a voice. Cool. Now that's the 60s. That is what this movie is missing, by the way, is plow on a cornfield of a different sort. We need a sex scene in this movie. They have sex that one night when the light goes out.

We're supposed to imagine. We need, I think we need to be there with them because we need to understand. Then you really should see revenge and no way out. What is fueling this devotion, this blind devotion. Because this is a man, Ray, who when he goes to Boston, his first interaction with good old Terry, a person, a stranger who was getting to hear him speak about this for the first time. What is his response? You're seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren't you? That's how the way he's talking and thinking is greeted. But Annie's response is, follow your bliss, my guy. Yeah. Which is, to your point, very moving and inspiring and maybe even aspirational, but also ridiculous. I think you have to understand that that would have been,

to her, it's probably an extension of, like, the hippie ethos. But she did have the vision of Fenway Park, though. But initially, she's like, don't go, you got to stay,

we're underwater with the farm. And then, and then when he tells her, like, I feel like I have to take him to this baseball game, and she's like, Fenway Park,

is not the one with the big green wall. Like, it's an interesting, like, fantasy reality moment of, like, that whole thing. That's when I felt like she bought in. I'm saying like...

The initial. The very initial decision. After they built the farm or built the field, the montage, the Christmas when he's staring out the window, looking at the baseball park. At that point, every family member she has is like...

Dude, Ray's got to go to a mental hospital. We're opening presents. Race steering out at some field during a snowstorm waiting for a ghost to show up. Like, we got to take him to the hospital. Yes. He's got to go right now. Yes.

He needs a straight. jacket. It would have been also like Joe Jackson shows up, complete the mission, replant the corn, let's get this farm back on its feet. It wouldn't have been like maybe we could play a 162 game season here? Like, what are we doing? Rayleighota batted righty in this movie and Shootless Joe was a lefty and this was everybody's biggest nitpick for 30 years.

Very tough. It's kind of indefensible because all they had to do was flip. They just could have filmed it and done that thing where they flip it and just put him on the left side and cheated it so you never saw the house. the background. I don't know why they did it this way. Really bothers me. Come on, Phil out of Robertson. It's baffling. It's baffling. Bad job by you. The Fenway scoreboard for the go-to-distance part, it says 10.30 p.m.

And it's like the third inning. But there's no rain delay because we've seen Ray driving around earlier. It's always bothered me. It's bothered me for 30 years. Yeah. And then when they... This is so obviously shot after the game. Right. Come on. Right. Change the clock.

It's not 10-30. Just stop. the entire movie was about this is tough this is going to hurt your feelings the entire movie is about giving a second chance to Ray and his dad

Moonlight Grom Terrence Man Did you say Moonlight Grom like Jacob Grom? No I said Moonlight Grom Grom the gelato story Terrence Man and Shoeless Joe

It's about giving those four people a second chance and the black socks What about every black baseball player before 1947? How did they miss this? It's brutal. Such a bad job.

Instead of the fucking White Sox who all cheated, maybe maybe get like Satchel page, who pop a bell, maybe Josh Gibson would want to play here. And why wouldn't Terrence Man have cared about this? This wouldn't have come up on the van? Like, hey, any black guys? No, actually, we're just, just white ghosts in the field of James thing.

It's such a miss. It's glaring. It's terrible. Oh, my God. It's terrible. And then so Phil Aude and Robert, and Nita needs to say, said this was his greatest regret. I'd fucking hope so.

You don't fucking black ghost at the baseball field. It's a bad job. It's the biggest flaw in this movie. So Ray's brother-in-law yells at him. Ray, do you know how much this land is worth? There's a lot of stuff on the internet about this. Ray says $2,200 an acre. And it's supposed to seem like, oh my God, well, that's so much money.

A baseball field's about two acres in size. Oh, okay. So he's just not losing a lot of money. with this cornfield. It's some money. It's not a staggering amount of money and the cornfield's, you know, hundreds of acres.

It's not like he threw some like pillows out there. Like he builds like a triple A baseball field and maintains it and has the electricity. Yeah. By the way, why have the lights? Couldn't you just built the field? Do you need the lights? Well, I think it's supposed to give it like a kind of ethereal vibe.

They do have that nice moment where they address the lights and the way the lights have changed the game. but I had the lights down as a nitpick just because where did he get those? How does just a regular person in the world go get those? And really the entire construction of the field, the pace, the precision, it's a perfect baseball field. And if you contrast the actual field and the professional grade lighting to the literal, like you're definitely going to get splinters in your ass,

not even like well-sanded planks of unvarnished wood. with Amy Maddie's, like, smashing nails into them. It's like, you're thinking that's safe for your child to sit on? Because all your money and time went to these lights. Who thought any of that was a good idea? It's a whole. All right, this is a nitpick from somebody that's seen the movie 700 times. Busfield, the brother-in-law finally sees the ghost.

After Karen. They're in the Moonlight Grimes. Yeah. That scene, Moonlight Grom. It's like, yeah, don't sell the farm. Don't sell the farm ray And Annie says Why don't you go inside and get some water?

We never see him again. He's just gone. Would you want him to interrupt the reunion? He's just gone. He just went inside to get some water. Can you imagine if like... If I'm him, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go back outside and see the fucking ghosts again.

Ray and John are like about to have the catch if Busfield shows up. He's like, we can charge $20 a car. Yes. But that's what he would have done. That was his character. I don't think he's like, all right, guys. I'm going to go get a glass of water

Watch Family Feud. You guys figure this out with the ghosts. He has to come back. I have a Mark Nip Pick from that scene too, but it's the almost exact opposite, which is kick him off your premises immediately. He almost murdered your child and tried to steal your home. Yeah, there's some shady editing with that. It's still unclear why he. There's no.

He kind of grabs her. He's like shaking her. Right? He's like, and you got this? Yeah. I'm fighting anyone who touches my six-year-old daughter. Not even in the 80s. was it like, yeah, they just laugh it off.

It should have been like, he should have jumped up to talk to Ray and accidentally like knocked her or something. Yeah. And what is it a, I guess because Graham walks off like Mark can see that and so that is what makes him believe, right? Yeah. Okay.

Well. Ray, uh, that's an interesting thing to talk about. Ray never recognized his dad during the scrimmage. We had the catcher stuff on. Did bat? Well, he was reviving his. daughter.

No, I've bats for this guy. And he'd be like, wow, that guy looks like my dad. What's happening there? Guy looks exactly like my dad. The catcher. My dad was a catcher. Wait, Annie. Nothing.

Three hours sitting there in the fucking stance. Come on. It's bothered me forever that Ray's dad was a lousy baseball player. And now I actually feel bad because I did some research on this. It had to be shot during this perfect hour when the sun was set. So they had like 10 minutes, the magic hour. And they had to have this catch. And the actor, Dwyer Brown, he had to have an old school catcher mitt that was like, you know, 85 years old.

And it was like rock hard. And he was really worried he was going to drop the thing. So that's why he's catching it like he's eight years old. Yeah. But he's trying to catch it with like this. So apologies to Dwyer Brown. Wow. I didn't totally love the way he threw, but I'm not, it wasn't as bad as the kid at the end of the natural.

I mean, he could have definitely cocked. it back a little bit, but he's catching like this because of the glove. All right. I'm really about to ruin a scene for you. Oh, boy. Okay. Karen falls off eating a hot dog. First, there's a couple

holes here. First of all, Annie's going to run in to call the paramedics. Immediately. Costner stops her and says, wait. I have that on my list too, actually. No mom on the planet is stopping there. Yeah. No parent, I would hope. Maybe the mom.

Who lets him just the field in the first place? The mom's out at another level. Okay. The moms are at another level because they've passed a shot out of their body. And I've seen it with my own wife. If your child's hurt, the mom goes to another level and they become superhuman. And she's getting to that house in 2.3 seconds and calling the, she's not like, oh, wait, my husband has an idea for my dead child. Right. She's in the house.

So that was stupid. But why not just carry her four feet on in the baseball field? so Moonlight Graham doesn't have to go back. I don't think he turns into the doctor unless he walks off. No, Koster knows. He looks. He's like, he's like, you got to do this.

You got to cross the line. Just bring her on the baseball field. Frank Whaley hasn't, like, that character hasn't been through medical school. That's my take. Like, young Moonlight hasn't gone through medical school doesn't know. So why does Koster look at him then? Koster's looking at him for his help.

And he's a fucking ghost. He's timeless. He's already lived his life. He has been through medical. school. He knows that he's going to be able to save her and that this is all part of the grand design at play here. Just drag her choking body five feet so he can stay in the game. Come on, Ray.

But that part he doesn't know. He doesn't know that he's not going to be able to cross back over until that happens. Right. So part three of how the holes in this scene. Okay. He's already been outside the circle. They pick him up as a hitchhiker. He wasn't on the baseball field. He's already existed. outside the baseball field. I agree with you about this one. Because the implication is that

my big one is about Terrence Mann and the implication is that he will come back with his long form about heaven. And so if he can do that. It's like a Ray Thompson long form. Why can't... My heaven by Red Thompson.

Why can't Moonlight go back onto the field? Well, just because that's the implication doesn't mean it's true though. I have that in unanswerable questions. Yeah. Like, is he dead? we can talk about that when we get to unanswerable questions.

I think it's crazy that he could exist outside the baseball field, but now he can't. I think it's crazy that he's a fucking ghost and all these guys are disappearing and coming back. He just can't come back the next day. Well, none of them can come off the field. Right. We can't come off the field. Shula's Joe can't cross. Because then it's over.

There's that moment earlier in the film when he was starting to follow Ray back toward the house. And then he stops and the camera letters on his toes by the rocks. I get it. But how was Archie off the field? to begin with. Who knows? I don't know. Archie also exists in a completely different timeline.

That's right. He thinks it's 1920 or whatever 1950 or something like that. He didn't come through the cornfield. He had to be brought there. So when he left the fields, Bill. Go the distance with us. When he left the field, he went right to the doors.

He became the drummer. Or the bass player. Any other nitpicks? Do you have a couple? Well, I'm just devastated that you don't like that scene. I love that scene. I've just seen it 700 times. I had some questions. I think those questions are fair. I think that there's an interesting discussion to have about basically whether you need to understand the rules of the magic at play to like this movie. Yeah, I think the whole thing is supposed to be magic. When James Earl Jones is giving that speech about people will come, they're going to have reserved seats on the sideline. I don't know. How are they going to have that?

It's like because when you enter this realm, you enter into a place where dreams. come true. So of course there's going to be like a degree of magic to it. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's a blend. It's not just magic. It's faith. Sure. Right? And then what is faith? Faith is believing in something that you can't see. And so you just kind of have to opt in. And that's why, that's why I actually don't like that Mark can see them at the end. Because to me, it's like he didn't opt in. He's not a person who is open-minded and open-hearted enough to accept that something like this is possible. He's evil in his core. you're evil in your core, you can't see the field.

You have to be a nice person. Yeah. For other small nitpicks, you hit most of them. I wish that we had just gotten to, like, learn more about the ground rules of the park. Like, what's the ground rule double in the cornfield? Yeah. You know? Oh, that's true.

There should have been a scene where they can't, it was just searching for the ball. It'd be funny if you were, like, trying to shag down a fly ball and you just, like, vanish into heaven. Oh, my God. Where did our left field or go? Sure. Ian Desmond would appreciate that instead of slamming into the center. Where are all the baseballs that go into the cornfield going? Is it like Janet's void?

Are they all in Jeremy? Somebody in heaven is like, Jesus! Stop! With the baseballs! I'm in heaven! I want to understand the physics of it a bit more. If Terrence Mann could walk into the cornfield and disappear, then why wouldn't Ray try to do that? Right.

Or maybe the spirits have to bring him in. Yeah, I think again, it's about... We're getting deep now. Yeah. what you're pursuing, like what you were actually pursuing at any given moment in time. One other small nitpick.

Yeah. There is a colossal town hall about the salacious, subversive literature. It was moral panic. No, no, no. That's not the nitpick.

The nitpick is that at the end of that only the one Nazi cow is actually imposed. No one else in that room supports her? Well, I don't buy it. It's supposed to be, a little bit about like how hysterical people can get together and maybe even believe in something like if you can convince them. I don't know.

That scene actually, that should have been a what stage is the best because that's kind of what the internet is like now. Yeah. Just like, hey, let's go get it. That's actually my, my vision for not necessarily a sequel, but like Mark is definitely the kind of guy who after he has his cold drink comes back out to the field and starts telling all these guys about how walks are really important now. and his He's like doing like shifts and he's doing swing plane He's disparaging

Shootless Joe Yeah I can see him breaking apart Shulis Joe's game Yeah you hit 350 But where was the power? Yeah seriously 62 war Mark's

Mark's getting a glass of water Doesn't want to come back out He's like I brought my friend Bill James He's got some notes for you guys Oh can I do one more nipick That just occurred to me actually Talking about Shill's stats it's often cited that he never committed an error

as though that's like definitive proof that he didn't throw the series. Yeah. Outfielders are committing errors in the span of one series. He's not playing shortstop. And it would have to be really obvious. You'd have to like overthrow the cutoff man or something.

The Rothstein gambling contingent, man. Yeah. Take me back to Boardwalk Empire. Mark, you feeling better after you almost killed our daughter? How's that glass of water? You want to come back out and see the ghost? No, I'm good. Jeopardy's on.

Yeah, seriously. Best quote. A lot of them. Until I heard the voice had never done a crazy thing in my life, you build a he will come. You see, that's the sort of crap. People are always trying to lay on me.

It's not my fault. You wouldn't play catch with your father. Hey, dad, you want to have a catch? Hey, dad, I have a catch. I'd like that. This is Terrence Mann. How you do it on the Easter Bunny? That's a great exchange.

James Earl Jones. This thing is really funny. And then people will come, Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled on like an army of steam rollers. It's been erased like a blackboard. Rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has mocked the time.

This field, this game, it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that was once good. And it could be again. Oh, people will come, Ray. People will come, Ray. People will definitely come. Wow. Thank you.

Beautiful. People will come. I mean, it has to go to that now. That's like when we were planning the ringer. When we were planning the rear, Bill's like, oh, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, it's like podcast. Podcast mixed with text. I got to go.

I have to go. Hey, Dad, do you want to have a catch? Hey, Dad, you don't have a catch. It wins, but I actually found myself free. freaking out at, uh, is this heaven? It's Iowa.

Iowa. That's fucking unbelievable. Unbelievable. I was sobbing at that line. Yeah. A couple more. I do. That was,

that was really high on the list. Um, the exchange between shoeless Joe and Karen, I think is. Quietly a mission statement, not only for the movie, but for life. Are you a ghost?

What do you think? You look real to me. well then I guess I'm real. Yeah. Like that idea. That's like, as I'm so emotional right now, that's like the most important idea to me like in the world. Yeah.

Like my single favorite line from Harry Potter, which as you know is my favorite story, is near the end of the seventh book when I won't spoil Harry Potter for anyone. But it's a it's a Harry Dumbledore Exchange. And Harry says, you know, is this real or has it all been happening inside my head? And Dumbledore says, of course, it's been happening inside your head, Harry. But why on earth should that mean that it isn't real? And like, why do we love stories, right?

Why do people invest in anything? Why do these communities spring up around teams, around Game of Thrones, around anything? It's because if you care about something that much, no matter what anybody else thinks of it. If it's valid to them, it doesn't matter. Like, if it's real to you, it's real. And that's just really powerful message. And why do people love this movie? It's not because they think that this could happen for them.

It's because they put themselves in that position of Ray, and they're like, I wish something like this could happen. I wish I believed in something that might not have a payoff. You know what it is? It's like movies can articulate that kind of longing. And if you see Ray get to have closure with his dad, you'll never. get that. Like, you can't have that. But you can experience it secondhand.

And that's almost, sometimes it can feel as good. And it's not as complicated because what if your dad was like, no, I don't want to have a catch. You know what I mean? Like, you sometimes like that, that secondary experience of something can feel as, it can feel safer, you know? Yeah. That's why I like going back to the 1300s with doing the thrones.

You love the Vikings. I have a couple more and actually... Was it maybe like the 1280 range? It's probably that. It's good. 1150 is something like that. No, it's definitely like 1280, 1290. This is your best bit.

Yeah. Off of what you were just saying, a couple other quotes. Again, that conversation between Moonlight Graham and Ray in Mini, says it was coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. That's an incredible line. And then just seconds later, he says, we just don't recognize life's most significant moments while they're happening. Back then, I thought,

well, there will be other days. I didn't realize that that was the only day. That's like a gutting idea. Yeah. It's really devastating. And what is the actual dream? What is the field of dreams? It's not about, you know, Moonlight represents this beautiful possibility of what if you were given a second chance. You know, what if the first chance didn't pan out and you never got it again? Could somebody or something give it to you, give you that gift? but it's not actually about getting just that one at bat. It's like the gift, the dream is ultimately human connection and feeling fulfilled and feeling like you achieved something. And that's really beautiful and it's really sad to think about missing out on that.

A lot of great art has been made about people who wanted a second chance with somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Most rom-coms. I think what actually spoke to me this time about, most rom-coms. is also though the fact that that we're being asked to like see the totality of these characters rather than, and like Ray keeps going up to people and being like, you missed out on this opportunity

to be a baseball player, it must have haunted you your whole life. And this guy's like, I've saved a lot of people's lives. I've helped so many people. Like if I had never, if I had gotten a hit that day or if I gotten a bat or whatever, like maybe I never become a doctor and you think about all the people's lives he's changed. And the same thing goes for Terrence Mann where he's just like, I just didn't want to be this thing anymore.

That's not who I am. I read, I think I don't want my privacy back. And we're asked to see the totality of a character in that way and not to just be like, this is who I fixed you as being. And that's ultimately what's happening with his dad. Because he gets to see his dad in a different way, not just the guy who is like, I reject you and your counterculture bullshit. Yeah, it's actually, I think, an underrated movie in terms of how it explores the idea of

perspective. Yeah, totally. You know, and the context. how your particular standing in your life or in a moment in time influences how you perceive what other people are doing and how people support each other or fail to support each other. And then the kind of the lingering consequences of those decisions. There's also some comedy, though. You know, it's like very funny when he says the voice is back and he says, oh, Lord,

you're supposed to build a football field now. That's great. I love that one. Yeah. officially my major was English but really it was the 60s. I love that. That's in the opening span.

What else? I love what do you want and he gives that speech and he's like, no. Yeah, what do you want? What do you want? It just points in those three guys that Fenway got their arms crossed. That's great.

We got to wrap this up since we got to move. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Absolutely not. I wouldn't touch this one. It would be an interesting show though. Probably unanswerable questions. Did Terrence man ever come back from heaven? Right.

I think he comes back. So a popular line of questioning on the internet is, has he been dead the whole time? Right. Is he just dead in the movie? And that's why he's able to access the cornfield. Oh, wow. But. How would they go to the Red Sox game there?

Well, there's, well, maybe he's there by himself. I mean, the only time that anyone outside of Ray and Annie ever really acknowledged Terrence Mann is the dad calling. That's the one, that's the biggest counterpoint. Because he's missing. Right. The article in the paper about him being missing the call from the father. Oh, then no. I don't think he's dead.

I just don't know. Is that dead? I like that theory. It's like, so he's going to come back and be like, I'm Terrence Mann. J.D. Salinger hasn't written since Catherine the Rye comes out of heaven and is like, guess what? Heaven is real. And it's the 1919 Black Sox are there. and no Negro League

Baseball players. I have a couple. Yeah. That was... Wait, I had like... Go ahead, though. You can do a couple. I'll throw one out there for you.

Yeah. Not to sully the emotional high that we're all on right now and the very poignant message of the movie. But do you guys think that Ray ever ends up feeling bad about commodifying his beautiful emotional breakthrough with his father? The movie ends with, we'll just charge them all 20 bucks to come look at it. You think any guilt ever set in from that?

No. No. Not at all. Not in the least. I have some questions about that business plan, though. Yeah. Where do all the cars park? Plow more corn.

Probably unanswerable questions. Where'd they park? Where they go to the bathroom? Piss in the field. If they're all hippies, they're used to parking their car on the side of the road and walking a Woodstock anyway, so it's fine. Did anybody become suspicious at any point that they're just in a long line of traffic in Iowa?

I mean, as soon as you're like, okay, so 200 cars are pulling up to this cornerfield, like at one point, it was like a thousand. The government gets involved, you know? When did the X files come over? Another in answerable question, how did they talk to Umsson to coming back? What was it for the umpires? Wow, that's a great one. The empires were like, it wasn't really that fun to be an umpire.

I'm good here in heaven. Yeah. I don't really feel like being yelled at again by Chick-Andle. Maybe they're like, oh, I sense the pitch framing is about to become a key part of the game. I really won't need to make sure I understand how I can look over the left shoulder. Unanswerable, who is the voice? Talked about that. Unanswerable, if Archie was a ghost who could live outside the baseball diamond, why couldn't he leave the baseball diamond?

Only the good people could see the ghost. Is that our takeaway? I think it's It's not being open-minded. It's about opening yourself up to believing. Yeah. Yeah. It gets to be a good person.

I don't think it's about goodness. I don't think it's necessarily like a judgment on morality. I think it's about some sort of spiritual awakening. Okay. Right. Field of Dreams 2 in the post-Stair rides era. Kind of writes itself, right? Yeah.

48 years from now, Bonds McGuire, they all come back. Baseball is a part of them. I wish I hadn't done what I did. Field of James 2 could also be Ray decides to try to really pursue to have the Negro Liggers come back and play in the field. That would be amazing. I would see like Bons and McGuire out there like, my neck is a normal size. I don't have back knee anymore.

Size 7 and a half hat. This fits like a glove. Field of James 2 could happen. Maybe it's a cartoon. What else do you have for an answer, well? Well, I wanted to just. quickly continue a tradition that we started together in the natural pod. You know, once again, newspaper headlines play a key role in this film.

So why didn't we see some of these headlines? Just a few for you. You've written some headlines? I have like 20, but I'll just read a few. Local farmer plows cornfield burns life savings to build baseball field for the living dead. Where was that headline? That's in the Chicago Tribune. Farmer creates baseball field-shaped portal binding poltergeist players to chalky confines.

Local hippie farming family claims to see baseball men playing on cornfield. That's like National Enquirer. Crazed Farmer harasses Boston Jewish community in search of black author. That would have been a good friend. Iowa Farmer kidnaps area author. forces him to watch meaningless athletics red socks

game after voice prompts him to ease his pain that started at 930 what was your favorite voice line by the way we have ease his pain

go the distance if you build it he will come I think if you build it he will come that's the iconic one often misquoted yeah

because it's they will come but I personally like ease his pain the most I think that's I'm trying to I'm trying to imagine what the Trump

tweet would be about this Ray Cancelo who voted for Hillary is a giant loser bringing back cheaters. Sad. A couple more very quickly. Ghost exhibition baseball game halted after child suffers 10 foot fall

from bleachers, only to nearly choke on a hot dog. She's really malle in that hot dog. What would the 538 headline be? Pulitzer winning author disappears into Iowa cornfield. Authorities suspect that I'll play. That actually would be a headline.

Who in the movie? Costner. Costner. Or Iowa. Costner. Only Costner could have done this. Only Costner. You don't think Tom Hanks could have done this.

The wet eyes are only him. And the way he looks out over like a twilight cornfield is not like replicable. You really felt like he was from there. I actually thought the key scene with Ray was when he's interacting with all the old farmers. Yeah.

Yeah. Because it actually made you believe that this wasn't that ridiculous. Yeah. And then it's a phenomenon out there. But also like he's fully like absorbed into that community and life. Great hair. I forgot, um...

He really knows how to wear that Berkeley t-shirt. I forgot to ask you what you thought grown-up Karen was like. I think that grown-up Karen is living in L.A. getting her canter's biweekly dinner order and arguing with her. I'm just describing transparent. She's my age. She definitely wrote a book about this, but it wasn't very good. She went to try to act.

And now she's doing TED talks about why you shouldn't let your father, like, destroy your farms. My dad ruined my life. She started one of those like ghost hunt shows. Yeah. On some sort of some channel that's on like the, yeah, 700s on your cable band now. She produced paranormal activity. I forgot to ask, did you see your dad as a ghost? He turned out to be the catcher.

you're introduced them the family you take the walk Was there anything you would have That should have come up That didn't come up They moved pretty quickly to want to have a catch I better be going away Yeah

Because I think that they're both having like a fugue state Kind of like is this really happening And he's like Are we going to acknowledge that it's happening? Yeah right So I think that they wouldn't be like By the way the Vietnam War Did you need an I'm sorry from Kostner though?

I think it's he says it one ever catches, I'm sorry. Yeah, I agree with that. How about I'm sorry? Like, Mark should say I'm sorry. How about this? Just apologize. I want my son to apologize after he leaves home, age 17,

and sells me Larry Bird. Larry Bird was a loser. If he builds you a basketball court out in his cornfield, well, that's out of a court of dreams. That's how you would remake this movie. You'd make it a basketball movie and you'd set it like, in a city. Yeah.

Do it that way. All right. I think we covered everything. Plus, we're at the two-hour mark. Mallory Rubin, Chris Ryan. Thanks, Bill. This was a pleasure and a blast as always. Don't forget about the rewatchables

1999 on Luminary started next week. Next movie we're doing on the rewatchables is Mean Girls. Wow. Very excited for that one. And don't forget about the watch with Chris Ryan. Don't forget about binge mode with Malo Rubin. Thanks, Bill. The Mother of Dragons and the Twitter show that you guys have together.

hashtag talk the Thrones Right after every Thrones episode Breaking it down, five left You're gonna cry again? No, for sure. She hasn't even begun to cry. All right. Thank you, folks.