The Rewatchables - ‘Focus’ With Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris

Episode Date: November 16, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and The New York Times’s Wesley Morris can convince anyone of anything after rewatching the 2015 comedy crime drama ‘Focus,’ starring Will Smith and Margot Robbie. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know, we love movies on the rewatchables. We also love documentaries. We haven't done a lot of documentaries in the rewatchables. I don't even know if we've done any, but did you know the music box series on HBO, which we did at Ringer Films. I'm the executive producer along with a few others. It premieres November 18th on HBO and HBO Max. That is a Thursday night.

We've already put up Woodstock 99, which you might have seen over the summer, and now lives on HBO Max. Check that out. People loved it. The second one is going to be jagged. It's about Alanis Morissette. It premieres November 18th, 8 p.m. on HBO and then as well on HBO Max. Five straight Thursdays, five straight music films,

Alanis, DMX, Kenny G, Robert Stigwood, Juice World. So that is it. The Music Box series you can find out on HBO or HBO Max. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast. Because the asks aren't getting smaller, and the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life.

Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. I sold my car in Carvana last night Well that's cool No you don't understand It went perfectly Real offer down to the penny They're picking it up tomorrow Nothing went wrong

So what's the problem? That is the problem Nothing in my life goes to smoothie I'm waiting for the catch Maybe there's no catch That's exactly what a catch Would want me to think Wow you need to relax

I need to knock on wood Do we have wood? What is this table wood? I think it's laminated Okay yeah that's good That's close enough Car selling without a catch So your car today on Carvana

Pick up these may apply. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. I hope you're checking out the Prestige TV show podcast where we are doing Succession. We did some Yellowstone. We've done Kribber enthusiasm. We lit up the morning show earlier last week. That was not a not a great show. We had fun talking about it. But check out, if you like this podcast, you'll probably like the Prestige TV pod. Hey, one programming note, heading into Thanksgiving week, we are not going to run the rewatchables on Monday of that week because I have, I think I'm doing three straight days of podcast on my podcast, so I didn't want to compete against myself. So the rewatchables would be running

later that week heading into, heading toward the weekend. And we'll have a good one. I'll make it worth your while. So you won't get it on Monday night like you usually do, but you'll get it a little bit later that week. And then we'll eventually shift back to a normal schedule after the Thanksgiving break. So wanted you to be aware that. Also wanted you to be aware that. Also wanted you to be aware, I think you know this, but the entire rewatchables archive, over four years of movies that we've done, over 210 movies at this point,

you can find it on Spotify. If you want to hear anything from the last 45 days, you can earn any platform. But once we get past that 45 day mark, the entire archive available only on Spotify. Very easy, too, to just search for the movie. It pops up. If you search for like

once upon a time in Hollywood, just type that into Spotify search, the rewatchables will come up. So there you go. Coming up, we're going to talk about focus with my own friend, Wes and Morris. Let's hear the trailer. I've been in this game for a really long time. I had what I needed. And then the girl walked in.

So what about the big con? The one where we make so much money, we all retire. What makes you think you can trust her? But I should trust you. You lost everyone's money. And now we're dead. Hey! That's what you get when you hire a con man.

I still go. We did all experience in IMAX. All right, my old Grantland teammate, Wesley Morris, is here. He works for the New York Times. He's writing a book right now in an undisclosed location. He hasn't talked to other human beings really ever, but it's Will Smith week. We had to do a Will Smith movie. We had to have the Will Smith conversation.

King Richard is coming out on Friday. It's going to be available right away on HBO Max. This is not a King Richard ad. It's a Will Smith app. because this is his best Oscar chance he's ever had. People are saying he's an overwhelming favorite. And it brings up the question of a career that we've been fascinated by, really ever since I've known you,

the choices he's made, the star to me has, and the movies that he's kind of led us in to a place that we want him to be. He just doesn't really want to be there. He wants to make superhero movies and alien movies and big blockbusters. And then occasionally he'll make a movie, Oh, so we could have gone in this direction. Yeah.

Which is why we're bringing up Focus, which came out in 2015, came off this really kind of dreary stretch of his career. And as you wrote, when you wrote about it for Grantland, there's a proof of life with Will Smith. So let's start there. Yeah. I mean, this movie came at a weird time for him, right? Where, like, I mean, 2015, he'd had a couple of things that didn't do so well.

by both two standards. 06 to 2014. To pursue the happiness, Oscar tried to do the Oscar run. His best performance, his best performance. He's good in it. I am legend. I still stand by.

Oh, yeah. Hancock didn't work. Made a ton of money, though. Seven pounds. Now it's like, okay, what's going on with this guy? Worst, like, can we just pause on that for one second? the single one of the single worst movies ever made and definitely the worst thing he ever did

which is like there's a there is some historical precedence for how bad that movie is and like other stars have made movies that are bad in a similar way where their stardom and their belief in their stardom kind of like like experience this horrible car accident where like the Christness of being a movie star turns them into a martyr and it's just on and then you put all that new age stuff

that's in it's just it's that movie is so bad it short circuits my ability to sort of articulate how awful it's just it's offensively bad that would be a fun podcast because that made me think of whatever that Kevin Spacey movie was what was that pay it forward Oh, well, Kevin Spacey's got about three of these movies that are just like appalling from the standpoint of the message.

Yeah. I mean, it's a message movie where the message is just, just despicable. Yeah, and the legend of bagger vance is like that a little bit for me, which Will Smith was also in. But then is Kevin Spacey, Will Smith? Oh, What Dreams May Come? Robin Williams, Cuba Gooding. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. Well, then there's like this other, okay, so like the, yes, the Hollywood movie star spiritual vehicle, right? Where, and I'm trying to think of some women who've also been roped into this, but it's mostly men. Laying, being vulnerable or making themselves vulnerable for this higher purpose, which ultimately is only about their own value. Each one of them has their own problems, but ultimately they involve the person you have paid to see ostensibly dying in some way,

or either you don't know they're going to die, or the whole thing is built around the sacrifice that they are making for humanity in some way. There's only one that I can think that actually worked, and it was Ghost with Patrick Swayze, which should be in this conversation. But yeah, it was an awesome movie. I really liked it.

That's a good side door version of this. But yes, it is a not dissimilar thing. My Life with Michael Keaton is another one of these. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one just doesn't work. There's a whole bunch of them.

So he makes seven pounds. He makes Men in Black three. Seems like a paycheck. Or like for him, not a paycheck. He doesn't need the money. But I want to be relevant again. and like the last handful of things I've done haven't really worked.

That's also another A-plus list movie star move where it's like, I haven't made a couple good moves lately. Let me go back to a familiar place, men and black. It changed Tom Cruise at the back end of Tom Cruise's career, just admitting that he's Ethan Hunt and period. Yep. So then turns down Django and then makes after Earth. and now we're in 2014

and he hasn't made a movie that he's really good in since the pursuit of happiness and I am legend. It's a seven-year run and as we know with movie stars, people move on.

And this is what has made Denzel's career so amazing. This is what has made Cruz's resilience so amazing. You can have these 10 to 15-year runs as an A-plus lister and then it's usually done.

Russell Crow is a good example. Like eight, nine great years and then it's going to tail off. And Will Smith was sitting in this point where his movies had made more money than anyone ever. But now he's edging a little bit into his mid-40s.

He really wasn't challenging himself in any way. And out of nowhere, he makes focus, which was a caper movie, a movie that you and I were texting about, we don't really see a lot of these. We also don't see Will Smith, like romantic Will Smith. Like producer Craig said this was

like hitch as a caper movie. And he's basically right. This is like hitched Will Smith. which he's only allowed in a movie a couple times. Why is he so afraid to be romantic Will Smith? Have you read this book? Have you read Will? By the way, I have read this book. It took me a day and a half.

I don't know why. I've got so many other things to read. But I am writing about him for this book. I'm, you know, my book, this thing I'm working on. And I mean, a little bit. It's not about Will Smith at all. but like the the work that that he isn't doing in this in this memoir um i mean i'm doing not on his behalf i think i understand where his place is in our in you know 200 and something

years of american entertainment like he he is doing a thing that is important and has a there's a lane that was created a long time ago for the for the spot that he occupies um but in the book you know i mean it is he's not talking about like what it was like to do any of the work that he did he's talking about you know he's he's attempting to share with us what his life was like at particular moments in his in his trajectory um and i think that there's something about him not him what him assuming that like part of being a good successful movie star involves not skeeving people out or making them uncomfortable with his sexuality or just the idea that like sex itself while you know will

Smith the human being appears to have been and still is like a very sexual person um none of that I mean none of that is sort of made it into any of the movie work or very little of the movie work And some of that is racial, right? Some of that is the way Hollywood has always worked. You know, he is, I would say, more than any other movie star, the most direct descendant of Sidney Poitia. In terms of his conception of himself as like a good, sort of noble person that everybody should like and trust and respect.

And a lot of the frustration that black people had And eventually white people too Is that Sydney Poitier wasn't having any sex with anybody It just didn't seem plausible that this like handsome virile man Was fucking nobody He was asexual. Well then we had it with Eddie Murphy again in the 80s Where they wouldn't let him have sex with anybody for basically the entire 80s

Until Boomerang Pottier of course like the minute he's at his when he when Pardier gets to his Apex Mountain, which is 67. We mix, you know, the guests who's coming to dinner to serve with love and in the heat of the night. Jesus.

The thing that he does right after that pretty much is produce a movie where he and Abby Lincoln do it. Like, he finally has sex with a woman that's Abby, you know, Abby Lincoln, I mean, you know,

she's great. Like, who's, yes, Abby Lincoln. but that was his first choice. Like, hey, I've had the biggest movie star year of anybody in the history of Hollywood up to that point in 67, pretty much. I mean, nobody had a bigger year than, nobody had had a bigger year than Cini Party 867. And he decides that what he's going to do to celebrate is make love to Abby Lincoln, be shown making love to Abby Lincoln. Will Smith, I don't know.

I get the sense that like based on this book that he kind of wanted to like create a real divergence between what was going on in his personal life and what he was going to bring to the movies when he worked. Which is sort of why, you know, his Muhammad Ali is a Muhammad Ali that you get and not, you know, I don't want to say that it's inaccurate. I think that he is interpreting Muhammad Ali in a particular particular way, that you, you know, as a romantic figure, more than a, I don't know,

than a kind of sexual one. Yeah, and by all accounts, Ali was the most sexually charismatic guy, probably of the 70s. Yes, yes. But Will Smith's charisma as a star is not sexual charisma, which is also why Focus is interesting, too. Well, because Margot Robbie pulls it out of him, which is one of the, many reasons I like this movie. I actually, so we disagree on this a tiny bit. I think they have real, real chemistry. Okay. And I'm just, I believe the scenes they're in. I think they're

locked in with each other in a way that's pretty unusual for movies like this. I will say that a second viewing of this movie brought me closer to where you are now, or to maybe to where you've always been. Yeah. I think I understand what he's doing. doing in this movie in a way that I didn't. But first of all, in order, the important thing about this movie is it kind of, with any caper movie, you should see it a second time. And most of the time when I review things,

I try to watch them again. I couldn't watch that for some reason for a second time. But, you know, with a caper movie, it works a good one. It works on, it has to work on two levels, right? You have to watch it the first time and just be caught up in like what is going to happen. And the second time you watch it, you're looking for the tells. You're looking for the discomfort and the stress is different because you're watching basically people manipulate and lie to each other. And you know with a second viewing with a good one of these movies.

You know who's doing what to whom and kind of a little bit why. So watching this again, I actually, I was much more. convinced. And the movie deepens in the last, what, 20, 30 minutes. Yeah. In Buenos Aires. And I was much more persuaded by their

relationship this time than I was in 2015. Well, it was his first R-rated movie since Bad Boys 2. Which came out in like 03. So he went 12 years without making an R-rated movie. See, that's a really important point, Bill. That's

super-to-re important. I mean, in terms of like the way Will Smith thinks of himself, right? Well, I remember I wrote about it in Grantland the first year we had about his whole career and the choices he made. Right, right, right, right. Because there was this Time magazine article about him. And it was basically him and I think his manager, they studied the biggest movies of all time. And it was basically like blockbusters and aliens. Those were like the two ways.

And he was just like, I just want to do block. And that's what led him to do men in black. and then that's what led him to keep going down that road of Independence Day Men and Black because he just looked at the list and he saw and he just wanted to be the biggest star in the world, which is fine. But I do think, I think six degrees of separation,

I think this movie, I think Pursuit a Happiness, there's been moments, even moments in bad boys. There's moments with him where he's, where you just wonder like, oh man, could he have been, had more of a Denzo-like career where there was kind of, of a one for us, one for him, where he's, if he wants to make the blockbusters great, but I still feel like there's four or five movies in that stretch he could have made,

which is why I'm so interested in King Richard. Right. Well, here's what I'll say. I think that he, if you look at something like I am legend, he kind of gets to do both those things, right? He gets to be in a genre movie where there is like an action suspense element, science fiction. But for a lot of the movie, you're just watching him. Well, you know what that is? That's a Hero Ball movie, which is, that's the Martian, that's castaway. Yes, yes.

That these movies where it's like, oh, it's just us in the star for like a half hour, 40 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever it is. The A plus listers love those. Well, I mean, an audience has loved them too. Like all those movies, I mean, very few of those aren't hits when when everything kind of makes sense. Yeah. And the thing about him and I Am Legend is, I guess I never really, I don't think he'd ever been on his own in that way.

So it was a real, those movies are also kind of gambles because it is like stars without their makeup a little bit, right? Like, what if you just remove all of the plotting and padding and when you isolate them, what does a great movie star really have when left to, you know, when you put him in a house with a dog, and all he can do is like pushups and pull-ups all day long.

Will Smith is appealing when you watch him exercise all day long. So Denzel, I guess, did it twice in his own way. He did Hurricane, which is just like him in a prison cell a lot of the time. And then I feel like Man on Fire has elements of that. Even though it's a big movie, there's lots of pieces, it's a big set. But he's on his own a lot. in that movie trying to figure stuff out, calculate. But he's never, he never has...

You know how I feel about that movie. What, I hope you feel the same way. I hope you feel the same way I feel. Do you love that movie? I love that movie. I think I'm the only person in my life who really hates Matt on Fire. I really don't like it. That's a Tony Scott thing, though.

That's not a Denzel thing. You think that, oh, you think the reason I don't like it is because it's Tony Scott who made it? I think it's, it's... If you love Tony Scott, you're going to really love that movie. And if you get frustrated by some of the Tony Scott stuff that he does, you're going to get frustrated by that movie. Yes, that movie is a giant. It is like a like a Tony Scott barbecue where all his favorite,

all his favorite dishes are just a raid before you. Yeah, you could take the pick. Invite me. I love the Tony Scott barbecue. It's my favorite barbecue. I'm the vegetarian today, M. I'm not doing it. So you wrote, when you wrote about Focus in 2015, you wrote,

CAPER comedies are films noir without the trauma. In a CAPER movie, money is fun. It's funny. There are no depths to plum. I love CAPER movies. And when we were texting about it, it's kind of shocking. I mean, there's a lot of CAPER movies, right? You got Oceans 11, all those types.

The romance caper movie, all of a sudden, that list really gets whittled down. So we have, you know, the Thomas Crown Affair, which they made twice. The second version of it is Amanda Dobbins' favorite movie. Shout out to Amanda. Love Renee Russo. I love Renee Russo in that movie. Thomas Crown Affair is great. Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

At a sight, even though it's a little violent, maybe a little too violent, but it's still a caper movie with a romance in it. Focus. And then Rough Cut, which I actually like. Bert Reynolds is a jewel theme. Lesley Ann Down. It's not bad. It came out like 40 years ago. It's never on TV.

But my point is there's not a lot of them. There's never been one with a black cast. Bert Reynolds, I mean, Will Smith, I think this is the only black star who's even been in one of these. And in general,

I'm surprised they don't make more of these because they're basically a rom-com with more going on, right? And it's weird that every year there should be one of these. And it's weird like Charlize's, I guess reindeer games was her version of this, but that was so violent.

But it's weird that for a star like her or the Margot Robbie or any good actress who is believable in some sort of like in peril but also has to have sex appeal, it's like perfect for them. And then for the lead guy, it's perfect too, but they never make them. I mean, the person who I think epitomizes this genre of movie

and she made maybe two of them is Catherine Zeta Jones, right? Yes. Catherine Zeta Jones is the caper movieist actress maybe ever. And she really, you only have to do like two or three. And she made two. She made entrapment with Sean Connery and intolerable cruelty. Yeah. With the Coen Brothers and George Clooney.

And Intolerable Cruelty is one of my favorite movies. My favorite Cohen Brothers movies. Because it's just surprising and it's really funny. And the thing about a good caper movie is, you as an audience member are never you're never on on solid footing with either one of the either half of the equation right?

Yeah, you don't know what's real, what's not real, who's been double crossed. Are these people working together or not? Did this person know all along that this other person was going to do this? Like this, it's just great movie stuff. Never happens. It's great.

And, you know, the caper is really, like, I don't, most times, the circumstance, I mean, the thing about intolerable cruelty that's so great is it's set within the realm of the thing that caper movie is a metaphor for, right? The caper movie, the theft of the, the money is kind of a, it's not a red herring, it actually is the plot. But it's, I guess, is Sean Finacy can correct me. But like, the money is kind of a macfin a little bit, right? Yeah. So that you are, what you're actually doing is,

watching the P. The caper movie and the tap of the of the romantic entanglement is is involved in some way in either stopping the caper or abetting the caper from their, from their respective sides. I think they're rare. I guess they're, oh, go ahead.

Oh, I was just going to say, like, I mean, you're watching a metaphor for a relationship movie where the money is kind of like, it's a stand-in for winning the person over and like establishing a kind of trust. And the thing that I love about intolerable cruelty is it is taking the metaphor of the cable movie, which is, you know, a stand-in for love and sex and attraction and trust,

and just setting it in the realm of divorce. And I just think that's, I don't know. I love when you take something that it, is already on the nose and then you you kind of break the nose a little bit and that movie does that. There's a couple other movies that sort of take it, take the metaphor of what is actually going on

and literalizes it a little bit. The Ocean's movies do that a little bit too. My friend, the late William Goldman, he loved caper movies and he wrote one and it bombed. It was the year of the comet. It was about... Oh, the year of the comet that's right. Here's the plot.

an auctioneer's daughter and a rich buyer's emissary fall for each other while trying to keep a rare wine out of the hands of evil doers. Completely bombed. But now wine has made a comeback. And there's like a little bit of a cultishness to this. But he wrote in one of his books about when this movie came out and you just knew in the screening people were getting up.

They were like, didn't care. They didn't care about wine. But I think these movies are really hard to pull off because you have to believe that whatever they're pursuing is worth risking your life. You have to believe that these people would fall in love and that they also might trick each other. And I just think it's hard.

And I think that's why we have. And a lot of them, you also need to have chemistry with the stars, which as we know, if you don't have that, you're the movie's DOA. You're done. Well, you also need stars. And you need stars. Right. You can't, it doesn't work if you don't have a movie star.

It doesn't have to be a person. You don't even have to know, you have to just believe that the person, that the people involved believe that they are stars. And they're working on a kind of charisma that you can feel as an audience member. Well, and that's one of the special things about focus and why it's so rewatchable. You get Margotten, Robby here. She's coming off Wolfo Wall Street where she almost causes a riot. People are like, what the fuck is this?

What is happening? There's an entire generation of guys who I think she ushered through puberty. And it was just, she was like a. comment. What is this? What's it? But is this a one-time thing? Is this somebody who we're going to have to deal with as a real actress? And Focus was the next

real movie she's in. I think she's great in this movie. And you think about like how few actresses could have pulled off all the things that she's doing in this movie. Because I have to believe she's kind of young and naive. She hasn't figured out who she is yet. She has to be

sexy as hell. She has to click with Will Smith, pull something out of him. And then as the movie evolves, she has to be a little more weathered when we go to the three years later, which she pulls off too. And it was like, clear, at least I felt like after this movie, I was like, this is a major actress.

This is, I'm really interested to see where it goes. I've only really loved four movies she's been in, which Wolf of Wall Street focus. I, Tanya, even though it was her version of like the Charlize, I don't want you to look

at me for my looks. I want you to look at me playing this character. It's still a good movie. And I thought she was incredible and once upon a time in Hollywood. I really did. I thought she was so great. That was a part that really relied on her charisma and things she was doing with her face and you just had

to be sucked in. There wasn't a ton of dialogue. You just had to really like her. Yes. And see like her wonderment with the whole situation. And I just thought it was a really complicated performance. That was excellent. That Okay. So to go back

to where you started. I, you know, one of my least favorite expressions that really sort of took hold in the 90s, you know, we're both Premier Magazine, you know,

former Premier Magazine readers. I don't know Premier Magazine began. I never liked it, but it appeared in the magazine a few times. Bites down hard to describe the way

certain women who act approach their parts. And it's typically used by women who are, like, you know, your, um, um, um, Kelly Preston's. And, you know, um, what's the other, what's, who's the other Kelly from the 90s? Um, Kelly Lynch, right? Um, Laura San Jacomo, like, like actors who were playing sexual people who are also tough. But like, they might be. Linda Fiorentino.

Linda Fiorentino, but who might be like sort of overshooting, using their sexuality to overshoot their talent in some way, which Fiorantino never did. San Jacamo never did. You know, I think that like Margo Robbie is a person in this, in this part and in Wolfo Wall Street, especially Wolfel Wall Street where like you like the bite down, the bites down hard concept, I think. Again, it's not mine. I don't like it, but it somehow feels applicable to Margaret Robby and Wolfram Wall Street, which is that you can't believe you got this part and you really, really, really want to convince everybody who watches you give this performance that you believe in it beyond all reason. I just felt like she had like really overshot the mark in that movie. And she just, she was farther beyond what that part needed in some ways. But I feel like everybody on the set was just blinded by whatever it was she was doing.

You're hurting a lot of people's feelings right now. I'm sorry. Yeah. But, I mean, if you think about it, I can't be alone in thinking this because that is a part that should have won her an Oscar, right? Like, the right person, I mean, it's Sharon Stone and Casino basically, right? It's it's it's it's um it's Lorraine Bracco and Goodfellas who should have won the Oscar that year even though you know I love Whoopi Goldberg

and I wanted her to have the Oscar but if you like those five women I'm kind of I got to vote for Lorraine Broco um as tough it's tough but I'm glad we'll be won anyway it made it made up for some other injustices though right yes um but I felt like there was something about her determination in the part that kind of of like I saw an actor working really hard to convince you that she was the person for the part. And I just lost the character.

There's also the fact that the movie just kind of treats that character not so great, right? And there's no unlike Sharon's Zone and Casino, this is Martin Scorsese. It's not unlike Sharon Stone at Casino and Lorraine Brocko and Goodfellas and Kathy Moriarty and Raging Bull and, you know, a bunch of other great performances that women have given in Scorsese's. Sasey movies. This one didn't have the payoff that I wanted the character to have, or that the character probably needed. Well, let's hold on, but hold that thought. Sexuality is a weapon when it was used the best ever. Is Kathleen Turner and Body Heat? Yes. That movie is ridiculous. I have watched it recently. That movie is so, she's so amazing in that movie? It's like they, it's talk about a unicorn performance. Who is giving that performance in the

history of movies other than her? Nobody can't believe it. You can't believe it. Like William Hurst, William Hurtree acting in that movie. I mean, it's, it's officially, we have to call it acting, because that's what it is, but that's a documentary. Oh, he definitely had, he probably had over a hundred directions during that movie as they were filming. She, she just was, she, she was using him. I, I, that movie's unbelievable. I kind of can't believe that movie exists. I can't believe nobody's tried to remake it. It feels like it's added. Anyway, we can go on a body heat. Yeah, I mean, but I do think that like that Margot Robbie in that movie fits, you know, is part of a long genre of parts, you know, of women who played, you know, that part is in a long

genre of characters who are appealing to the heroes of those movies for their sexuality and what you hope is that in the writing and even in the performance if there's something that can make the part

more interesting than just the lingerie and the hump in the floor and you know all of the things the character is supposed to be doing to be persuasive and credible to you know as a sexual being. But obviously,

it works in focus. Right. It works in focus because it's part of the, I mean, it's part of the plot in an explicit way. And she understands, I don't know, I feel like it's just a better part

than the Wolf of Wall Street part. I agree with that. You've still pissed off an entire generation of guys. Sorry, guys. So this movie was written and directed, I'm probably going to screw up the pronunciation series of them the worst

pronouncer of all time. Glenn Fokar on John Riqua. Let's go with that. They co-directed, co-wrote, I love you, Philip Morris, crazy stupid love, this movie, and then Whiskey Tango Foxtrot,

which just had, was death by miscasting. Where it's like, they just kind of misjudged Tina Fey's ability to carry a movie like that. It was the wrong choice. And I think if there's a different actress in that movie,

I actually think that would have been a good movie. It was just, she was just woefully miscast. she was miscast but also the screenplay was bad I mean it's based on a good good book but I mean these guys are good writers

they have a tendency to over over script things which is true in focus some of it I mean the plotting is great the dialogue is mediocre and you know once the

once the plot really starts taking the turns I'm I I laughed a lot this second time by the places the movie winds up going and you know the places you know all the character turns I love crazy stupid love I think that movie is That's a really good movie yeah

I forgot they made it Yeah there's some Again there's some bad stuff in it mostly involving I think the babysitter character But you know eventually the plots, I mean, there's a young babysitter who I think works for Julianne Moore

and Steve Carell if they are indeed married. I saw this movie years ago. But there's a whole plot about the son having, their son, I think, having a crush on her. That's a whole plot of the movie. It's not great. And the acting in it isn't very,

in that part of the movie isn't very good. I haven't seen a while, but I remember I just really like Gosling in that movie. That was the first movie that made me think, oh, Gosseling's here to stay now. Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling in that movie are really, really, really good.

And the scenes that lead up to them doing it, including the actual scene of them doing it, those are just great. When I think about like really good romantic comic-oriented stuff in the last 20 years,

which obviously is dwindled, and that movie is among the last of that sort a thing. That scene is definitely, that set of scenes is, or their relationship in that movie, period, is just, is really great. Well, this movie had a $50.1 million budget focus. It made $158.8 million.

Will Smith, still cranking it out. At the global, at the global box. At the global. Yeah. I think it did okay domestically, but internationally. Roger Ebert did not review this because he was no longer left. Always sad. We always have the Roger Ebert review.

but this movie came out in February 2015, so we do not have a Roger Ebert review for this one. We do have a Wesley Morris review on Grantland, though, and you did like it. When we come back, we're going to do the categories. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce, and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian Soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango.

Jusu Chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Most rewatchable scene. There's an obvious winner for this, but we'll go through some of the candidates.

I really like the opening scene. It's a little reminiscent of out of sight, actually, of, I love the big hotel cocktail lounge bar with the guy eyeing somebody else and figuring it out. But she takes... This whole movie thinks it's out of sight, right? Like, I mean, there's a real out-of-site vibe to a lot of it. No question. I mean, the Soderberg colors schemes, the use of a kind of that sort of cool, hipster, jazz-ish soundtrack with a lot of, like, retro.

songs from the 60s and 70s. Yeah, I was wondering if Soderberg saw this. Was he touched and honored, or was he pissed off and thinking these guys are on my corner? What the fuck? I mean, he pays his own homage. He was fun with it. I like the opening scene.

I like when they burst in the hotel room and Will Smith's not buying it. If you had any idea what I was about to do to her, shut up, man. She was going to be no good to you after that. You should really shoot me. Fuck. What kind of stuff are we talking about?

Saudi Bachelor party shit. Saudi Bachelor party. R. Kelly drop cloth shit. Please, come on. Shoot. Stop fucking around. I'm gonna fucking kill you. You'd really be doing me a favor.

Cancer. Tumor, the size of a peach. Pull the trigger, you'll see. You got cancer. He's on to us. Oh, shit. I knew this one. You guys suck.

Just give us the money. Or what? or he's going to shoot you in the neck. I was about to do some Saudi bachelor party shit. Really funny. Next scene is her thief audition on Bourbon Street. It's not that long, but it's really good. Her trying to steal wallets and stuff.

It's just good. She carries it for two minutes. When she takes over, I mean, this was when I, I mean, the movie, this is the movie that won me over on her. It was only the second time I'd ever seen her in anything. But that sequence, was good. And her surprise

at how good she was as a pickpocket is great. There's a little Julie Roberts pretty woman kind of element to this where you're watching this young actress who is trying to figure out who she is as an actress

at the same time as the part is trying, you're watching somebody blossom in the part too and there's like a weird crossover thing? Yeah. Next scene. I like the pre-super Bowl, the bedroom scene,

when they're lying in bed and she says, why do they call you Mello? And he tells her the whole story. And then he says, there's two kinds of people in this world, hammers and nails. You decide which one you want to be. He said that was his dad's advice. But I think it's important. And I've mentioned this before on this pod. These movies where I'm supposed to believe the characters.

And then they sometimes just forget to have the scene where they interact for three minutes at a table or in bed or whatever where it's like, why do I care about these two? as a couple and then they actually have that scene in here, so I'm mentioning it. The Super Bowl scene is one of the most rewatchable scenes of the last 10 years. Oh, man. Dude, what are you doing? I'm good for it.

Double it. You got a problem, my friend. Take those binoculars. Pick any player on or off the field and I will guess the number. Any player. That's like 100 to 1. It's good odds for you.

Two million. That's fucking crazy I don't like it Okay, okay I'll sweeten it for you You picked a player And she'll guess the number What

It's Oh, you're doing a time out I fucking love this scene This is the worst Super Bowl Ever filmed Yeah I have Listen, I can't defend I can't defend the uniforms

I can't defend it's two teams that they never mentioned the word Super Bowl because they obviously didn't get the rights with that said It's so sad Those are basically by the way The Seahawks uniforms

Right now Yeah I mean Those horrible That green Just pretty bad It almost looks like XFL This seems like over 10 minutes long Yeah it's a good sequence though

There's an incredible build where Will Smith sets it up perfectly. And from a rewatchability standpoint, when you rewatch it, you see all the different things he's doing in it to try to set up B.D. Wong's character. Lee Wan, the addictive gambler. Incredible use of sympathy for the devil, which is a song that's been misused in a lot of movies. And I actually think it worked really well. And it's not only what he sees is what he hears. The Mandarin word for five is Wu. There are 124 woo-woo's in sympathy for the devil. Now he's not registering it, but it's all there.

So when he picks up those binoculars, looks out on the field, sees a familiar face with the number 55 on his jersey, some little voice in the back of his mind says, that's it. And he thinks it's intuition. And he picks. From a gambling standpoint,

one of the best scenes ever. When he watched this the first time, you don't know what he's doing and you think like he's going to blow the money and you think that's the direction the movie's going you don't realize it's a big con and then Margot Robbie's character, Jess, is flipping out she gets a binoculars, she's looking around

and she sees Farhad, Will Smith's friend and it's like, oh, she gets it, light bulb goes on and BD Walk's just great. The scene, it's really good. It's a really good 10-minute scene despite the fact that we're watching two fake teams in a Super Bowl.

I mean, I can get past that because this scene is good. So a few things about this scene. I think B.D. Wong is, like, having the time of his life not being on a law and order set, basically. And I think he's probably overdoing it. You know what I mean? He, again, I mean, talk about biting down hard. He is definitely doing that in this sequence. I have him later when we get to the Vincent Hanna.

Give me all you got a word for dialing it up. We'll be talking about BD again. He's got some competition for that. He does. I think, can you talk to me first thing about gambling? I've never gambled. I've never bet. I'm a mediocre poker player.

This was one of the first times that I had ever realized that you can just, I mean, because one of the things the scene is trying to do. do, I think, is make you, is to take you to make you think you're being taken to some dark part of the Will Smith character's personality, right? Like, oh my God, this guy is

a con man with a gambling problem? Oh, Jesus, this is a different movie than I thought I signed up for. Like, how is, so suddenly we're in leaving Las Vegas, basically. And how is this thing going to be a movie where like, he's going to hit bottom and she's going to have to rescue

him? I don't know what's happening. what's going to happen here. But I'm concerned. Yeah. But I had never realized before that you can just, you can just bet on anything. Like, you can just pick a thing.

Say, I'm betting on the outcome of, of, you know, just pick a number and I'm going to put $2 million on that. I didn't know that was an option. So as a person who gambles, how do you feel,

I mean, how does this sequence work for you as a gambling sequence? It works great because, okay. know a lot of different games where we bet on stuff, right? You go to a baseball game and you do like the hat pool for home runs in the inning. And it's like you get the fifth inning. We all throw in 20 bucks. If somebody hits a home run this inning, you get the 20 bucks, stuff like that. So the concept of gambling on things during a game is great. It has one flaw, which I'll do now,

is going to say for nitpicks. He loses, he's down $1.2 million and does the double or nothing thing. And bets him, you pick a number. I'll predict she's going to look at somebody and figure out what number you picked. Now, there's

50 guys on each team. There's probably 60 numbers on the field. Wilson should have given himself way better odds on the number because the odds of her picking that number.

He should have said for the 1.2 million, how about this? She'll pick that number. If I lose, it's another $100,000. If you win, or if I win, I get 2 million or 2.5, whatever.

The odds were terrible for the last bet. That was my nipick. Other than that, totally realistic, totally realistic that these guys are in a Super Bowl suite with like crazy money, just bored. And they set it up really nice about when they do the reveal and he explains how they put the fives everywhere, which I thought was really cool, how they targeted the one.

I like that. Bill Gates gets kicked out of the master suite if he's coming. So it's like, it all made sense. This is, this Lee Wan loves gambling and they're trying to use that against them. Because what you, because the clever thing about the scene is you actually aren't even focused on, on the BD Wong character's gambling problem. No, you want Will Smith to stop. Yeah, you're like, stop, Will Smith. You're going to lose all your money.

Stop it. Yes. The person with the problem is actually the person who seems to like have no problems at all. Yeah. I just, I liked that switcher. And I guess what I was curious about most was like, what is the BD Wong character thinking during each phase of this of these bets, right? Oh, he just loves the action. He says it.

He's just so delighted he has like a toy to gamble with. This is like he's at a football game that he's probably bet on. And now it's like, oh my God, now the rush of the gambling is what's getting him. That's why even when he loses, he doesn't even care because he's. so rich, he doesn't care. But he just loved the whole thrill of it. He can't believe he's got a story now to tell. All that felt really authentic to me.

I just didn't like the odds of the bet. Yeah, I can't tell, again, like with these movies, the money really isn't the thing, right? Yeah, no, it's true. And apparently sometimes gambling the same thing is true. The high is more important than the thing you're betting on. And then if you want to keep this scene going, when he dumps her in the limo and she realizes he pays her off with the 80K and they keep it as a one shot.

They never really switch it and she really watch her break down as the car's driving away and it's really good acting by her. Very Soderberg. That's a very Soderberg sequence. I have a question though.

I've watched this movie now a couple of times. Why? What? Why does he do that? We'll get to that later. Okay. Three more rewatchable scenes. Her,

she turns it on him when they have drinks. They see each other in Buenos Aires three years later. Excellent. Excellent. And she pretends blah, blah. And then she's like, ha, got you. I'll keep you safe. What was that? And flips it on him. And he's like, oh, shit, she learned some stuff.

How's it for you? Wow. Yeah. Wow. I think you're losing it. That was pathetic. I'll keep you safe. What was that?

Does that work? Does that get you late? Hey, that was not a line. I'm not falling for your shoes. One thing about that scene that I do not like is the music. I feel like the movie, like, she's already doing a good enough job. Yeah. The movie, the movie does not need to, like, to goose us into thinking that she's conning him.

She's just going to, like, it's going to happen whether this music or not. I also think that watching it a second time, that's the sequence where I kind of felt, like, Like, I could feel Will Smith being turned on by this. Yeah. Do what I mean? I could feel, I could feel his Woody. Do what I mean? I mean, I don't know how to, I mean, I could just feel this.

I could feel this working for him. On the feel his witty scale from one to William Hurt and body heat, is he like a seven? Well, in body, yeah, body, because body heat, you can just see William Hurt's Woody. I mean, it's just, he's got, he's. got a chub and that's just what was the other one the big easy

with Dennis Quaid and Ellen Barkin that was another one where they went at it and probably went a little got a little too into it

I think it happens for time and time and one of these one of these another one of these stars who who's you know she's like a proto

she's a much raw or margar Robbie right? Right. Yeah and anyway I would say he's like a seven

I'd say seven I believed it and I'm hard persuade in these matters when it comes to like people being attracted to each other in movies. I rarely believe it. But the second time I watched this, that sequence, I was like, he, he was ready. Yeah. Two more. Owens played by Gerald McEnany? Gerald McCraney. Gerald McCraney? Yeah. Simon and Simon fame. Then he became a character actor. By the way, I don't know if you're watching the impeachment, Linda Tripp,

Monica Lewinsky situation on FX. Great. It's great. It just ended Tuesday. But a really great little bit that happens is Linda Tripp has to give a tour to Major Dad, Gerald McCraney. Major Dad, that was the other one. Yeah. Really annoyed when he does not show up for the tour.

She has a bad day of that day when he stands her up. I skipped it. I skipped her to the Winski show. A lot of people have, but it's, I think it's, I think it's really good. Sarah Paulson. Yeah, I know. Sarah Paulson is great.

Beanie Feltson as Lewinsky. I'm out. I'm just out. I hear that. But she's doing something really interesting. That's another miscasting. Miscast, I agree. I agree.

I agree. But there's something interesting happening there. Anyway, going back. Owens shows up to Nikki's hotel room and does the sniffing around thing and Margarabi has to escape. That seems really good. That is a messy bed. Yeah, I don't sleep well.

Someone here, son. You know why you don't sleep well? No, tell me. Your iPhones and your smartphones and your laptops and computers, all of which produce nothing but a barrage of useless information. Fucking Twitter. I like scenes where somebody shows up and is looking for the person and the person has to sneak around in the hotel room

and then eventually escape in the balcony. I'm always in. Anytime there's balcony escapes, I'm in. I wrote down on my little note card. This scene is an example of, this is an overwritten scene. Because the rant that he's in, it's partly because Gerald McCraney isn't,

it's relying on Gerald McCraney's brand of American masculinity to sort of make it work. I mean, there is a kind of military southern, southern man thing about McCraney. I don't know if he's from Texas, but he seems Texan. I just, like, he says some things that are just like, this is screenwriting. This isn't a person. I'm interested in the Margarabi trying to navigate around.

I was barely listening to Gerald. And then the last one, the last thing, Nikki explaining to the bad guys how he con con just again in the shooting and that whole ending. Yes, excellent. I have the Super Bowl scene for the most rewatchable for me. What do you have? I really like the explanation of the con. The necklace had a wireless key logger in it.

All I needed was for her to enter your room. And when she did that, I had what I needed. Picked up on your keystrokes, I logged into your computer as you, and downloaded everything about the EXR. Because there's a lot going on there. And I think that once the cat's out of the bag with the Super Bowl sequence, I feel like it's less interesting.

But watching him explain, because you get a little montage. You get two montages, I believe. You know, I love a montage. And there's just some filmmaking. I love a montage as well. And there's just some filmmaking there that is just rewarding. You get to watch Margar Robbie tell her side of that caper. and then after having seen Will Smith tell his side of it.

And then you have the three actors who aren't, you know, Margarabi, McCrany, Rodrigo, oh God, what is that guy's name? I like that guy. Whatever happened to him. He was a thing for about 10 seconds. Rodriguez Santoro. Yeah. Rodrigo Santoro.

And that, you know, handsome, beefy guy who plays his security dude. Oh, that's a great sequence, by the way. I don't know if we're going to get to this. I don't know how we would. That sequence where we spend, what, like 90 seconds with that, with that muscle guy? I had that in what stage the best. The bad guy buying products at the pharmacy for the car accident, he's about that. I agree.

Really good 90 seconds. Another Steven Soderberg rip off, though. You can totally see Soderberg. I mean, I'm sure that, like, that is a Soterberg sequence. But if it's not, it's the greatest thing that Michael Mann and. Soderberg never did. It's so good. Well, we'll do more

at what's age the best. The chemistry with Will Smith and Margarabi we mentioned. I like most of the musical score choices in this. I like the opening song with that

da-da-da-da-da. It's got this it's like this happy baby, please don't go by them. They use, they use Gimme Danger by Iggy Pop

with the Stoges. They use that Tejamo song. They use that white bird song. They do a good job with most of the music. It's a sound, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, than, it needs to, than the, the, the writing. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. Well, you know, another

what's age the best. They say the title in the movie, which you know I love more of the, anything. This time it was Will Smith said, this is a game. Dot, dot, dot of focus. I'm in. When you say the title of the movie, you've won my heart. And this one I'll give for you. This is just for you. I had 20% for me and 80% for you with stage the best. Will Smith's clothes in this movie. The great, great collared shirts. Oh, we got to talk about the whole look. Is that pink? What's he doing there? But there's a couple like, checkered collared shirts that are just elite. When in the mid-2010s,

what decade are they dressing in it? I couldn't place, I mean, I guess maybe they were aiming for a kind of timelessness that had some combination of 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s happening all at once. But the thing I couldn't get past was his hair. and I mean, I think I noticed it. I don't know if I mentioned it the first time I wrote about it, but I couldn't get past the fact that Will Smith has an S-curl in this movie, and I could not figure out,

for anybody doesn't know what an S-curl is, it is basically like a black person's hair wet. Yeah. It's just like a nice, it's got, it's not sheen. It's just like, it's a jerry curl, but without all the jerry curl. and a little less curl. So it's like, you know, you've got a box.

Yeah. And it's just, it's a wet box. It's just kind of wet and straight, ish. It's curled, but it's wet. It's a wet look for black hair. Anyway, that processing in his hair, it just looks, sometimes it looks fantastic. Sometimes it looks terrible.

Welcome to having an S curl, which is while I'll never get one. But then, I don't know if we're going to get to this. I don't know. I mean, I can't remember. Like, how much spoiling do we want to do here? What do you mean? We're spoiling the whole movie. I know. I just, I'm out of practice, Bill. Gerald McCraney, as it turns out, is Will Smith's character's father.

Yep. Which means that Will Smith is a biracial American person. No, he says he doesn't say it's his biological father. He says he's basically my father. Oh. Yeah. They have an out. They make it seem like he got adopted.

See, I hear that. And I don't, I think that, okay, this is why I bringing up the hair. I think they were trying to find some hair that seemed plausible if you were to believe that Gerald McCraney is indeed. Was actually his father. Oh, interesting. Right. The way they disclaim, the way he doesn't disclaim the paternity, right?

The way he talks about it is they leave all this ambiguity. in the biology department because of the estrangement, right? It isn't, I actually watched this again thinking that Joe McCraney is the father and just wasn't around, and Will Smith is kind of distancing himself or has maintained this distance and estrangement. It's not, I think he, I don't know, I don't know. That's a good problem and answerable questions for this. Yes.

Morewood's the best. I'm always down for a three years later Buenos Aires graphic. A movie's in good shape dropping that. This is so funny because I watched that and I thought, why do movies do this? Why do we need to know? Why do we? I mean, I never think about it. But with this movie, when they went, it wasn't, was it Buenos Aires that it was?

No, it was New Orleans. It's the New Orleans ID. And I'm like, why do we need? Did they need to tell us we're in New Orleans? And why do we need to know? Like with something like Siriana, you got to keep me straight. I want to know where I am at all times. Like if we're talking about international intrigue, a born movie, whatever,

like, you've got to tell me where I am. But for a caper film, I don't think you got to, you don't need, I don't need a date line for that. We mentioned for what's aged the best, the bad guy buying products. That's a really good scene. I like that guy. That's such a great sequence. I like for caper movies and lighter crime dramas, the intentional shooting of the, I shoot you, but I aim between your third and fourth rib or I shot you in your leg or where it seems like the guy, it's a hard one to pull off, but I think they actually made it work.

This is the best one I've ever seen. Yeah, it's a really good one. I don't know why I hit an aim in the right side, though. And then a couple good thief lessons in this movie. for what's age of best. If you steal somebody's credit cards, give them back within an hour. Married guys are the best to do those things with

because who are they going to tell? If you're running a scam on them, it's not like they're going to tell their way. The whole point of hustlers. Whole movie about that little scam. And then sell everything, take no chances. But Bill,

I have a real question for you because I have never been pickpocketed. I have never had, I mean, knock on wood. I have none of these, none of the things that happen to these people, and I've been to all these cities that are in this movie or, you know, two that are in this movie, three. I have, I've been through those crowds. I have, like, walked among these people.

There's no way anybody is getting my watch. By the way, that Piage that she steals at the end, that is impossible. How does she? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a thief. Maybe there's like a pen and teller.

Now people are going to target you. They'll be, oh, Wesley, we'll show you. But I mean, again, I can't tell if this is a movie

having fun with the conceit or if it's like a real tool of the, like, are we watching master crafts people at the top of their game? Is Margot Robbie just like an unbelievably good pickpocker? I think it's a movie and they probably took some liberties. I don't know if you'd bet a thousand.

Obviously, there's editing every time there's a move made, there's a cut, which says to me that it's kind of impossible to do. And one of them, there's a bad edit where you can see the actor that they're taking this watch from kind of wiggle his wrist a little bit. Right. I always put my wallet in my front pocket, even though it doesn't look as good. Oh, you're one of those. Yeah, I am.

Okay. What's age the worst? I only have a couple. The Australian race car guy is just bad. I don't know what's going on with that guy. He's just bad. Not even interesting. No, just a bad character.

And then it was almost like the real actor they hired two minutes before they started filming. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And then I still don't understand why Will Smith's character broke up with Marga Robbie's character after the Super Bowl heist. Thank you. I don't. I mean, do you have a theory? I don't.

My theory is it was better for the movie. There's no movie if he doesn't do it, right? And they probably couldn't think of a reason. Like, it couldn't be a thing that happens. It can't be a transgression, right? It has to be some random choice that he makes to like, in the relationship. He doesn't explain it well.

He's like, oh, yeah, I didn't want you to be. It's like, all right, well, you guys had, you made me believe in this chemistry you two had, and I don't know, understand why you walked away from it. unless you were married. It actually is a huge problem. It's almost like it would have been better if he was married or something,

and that that was why he walked away from it. All right, we're going to take a break and then rush through the rest of the categories. All right, casting what ifs. I have a couple good ones for you. I tell you to sit down, but you're already sitting down. I'll stand up. This movie was originally scheduled to star two people who you mentioned earlier in this podcast.

Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone. I hate this. Oh, I mean, of course, because those guys, who would not want to work with those two people again if you're the two people who made this movie? Like, you definitely, because also,

I mean, you want to recreate a thing that was so amazing the first time that you worked with them. Like, why wouldn't you do it again? So, Damien Chazel understood that. He made a whole movie around them. So they both. dropped out and I don't know if they dropped out to do La La Land. But it would have been interesting if they had made this movie and then done La La Land a year later. And then now you're talking like

some Tracy Hepburn stuff where they're just in a bunch of movies together. They can, they can, I mean, obviously the movies are different now, even from 2017 and 2015. But I mean, there's still time, I guess, for them to rekindle that. How many people just got the Tracy Hepburn reference I dropped, you think, listening right now, 20%? Hopefully everybody. You know, I mean, you don't have to have seen the movies and know kind of what the vibe is. I never understand. I never know what people's sense of history, like where it ends is with movies.

Don't people tell you, like, you're talking over our head. You'll probably get a tweet. I know, I think when you go before 1970, I think it gets dicey after that. So is this the part where we say once upon a time there were these two movie stars named Catherine Hepburn and Spencer, with the biggest stars. Nobody wants that either. Right. After they dropped out,

Ben Affleck and Kristen Stewart became the leads. Ooh. Ooh. This is a good Ben Affleck movie. This would have been a good choice for him. Yeah. But let me, can I just say. I don't like that combo personally.

I, well, if you believe in her, as I would have been believing in 2005, 15, it would have been great because she, I mean, I guess we're going to find out this year. I mean, America will understand, well, how do I put this? The Twilight people know she's great. She's going to win an Oscar probably for, I mean, both Will Smith and Kristen Stewart are probably your best actor and actress winners. It looks like. So funny, that could have been focused.

What's Kristen Stewart's sexual energy movie? Has she made one? God, just pick one. I mean, she No, like a character, like the focus character. Oh, I see. She's never really done anything like that. Yeah, she's never done. It's sort of had a fun movie

for her. I don't know about her and Ben Affleck, but there's a movie she made with Juliet Benoche called the Clausussel Marie. Yeah. Where there's a, like, the whole thing is sort of running on this sexual energy between her and Julieta Benoche. It is extremely erotic.

And she understands, She just, I mean, she's such an incredible sexual actor who doesn't need to do anything Margot Robbie is doing in Wolfo Wall Street or in this movie. She's got the subtle sexual energy. I don't know if that works for focus. She understands, it just comes from a different place than Margot. Margot Robbie is, it's all externalized. Kristen Stewart, it's a spiritual thing that is just, you can't put your finger on it.

It just, she just exudes it. Well, I'll tell you this, if it had been Ben Affleck and Margo Robbie, I'm pretty sure. things would have continued after the filming in the trailers. I think they would have been carrying over the chemistry to various hotel rooms and trailers. Because he made his, I mean, the problem is, I don't know why, I don't know why either one of them dropped out. But like, the thing for Ben Affleck is he made that really bad gambling movie with Justin Timberlake that I can't remember the name of that came out. Runner Runner. Yes, Ding.

Yeah, that movie should have been good. I think the director messed up. It's poorly directed. Well, wait, I have a Ben Affleck story for you. Ben Affleck drops out, his scheduling conflicts. Will Smith comes in. Kristen Stewart says, I'm out. Wait, I'm sorry.

Because Ben Affleck leaves or because Will Smith enters? Will Smith signs on. Kristen Stewart drops out. Did she drop out because Will Smith signed on? Did she drop out because she thought she was doing with AFWAC or did she have a scheduling thing? I don't know. I'm just giving you the internet research. No, Magusta.

I'm giving you the internet research. I think she probably had a scheduling conflict. I don't know. She was really, she was working. I mean, this was that period where she was making a move year to a year. Right. I mean, she was busy. I'm just going to say she was busy.

Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. There's only one winner for this. Adrian Martinez is Farhad. he's bounced around in a bunch of stuff but I was thinking about I was like that guy he's got that nice happy face he's very distinct

the Vincent Hanna give me all you got a word it's amazing BD Wong doesn't win but it has to go to Mr. McHugh and the crazy assy car guy um yeah

D. D.N. Waders is a lively category we got BD. Wong is Lee Wan we have Andrew Martinez as Farhad and then Gerald McRaney I think it's BD

he's got one scene he crushes it it's got to be him it's BD Wong it's BD Wong Re Recap casting couch. I have two. Russell Crow, can't you just come in to be McEwen the crazy

Australia car guy for two scenes? Here's a million bucks. Just come on in. Be Russell Crow. You're a little heavier. You can keep your beard. Just be Russell Crow for two scenes. I mean, what was going on with him in 2015? Noah? Yeah. Would have gotten him. Will Smith, the dad thing is confusing.

Is it less confusing if Ving Rames is just in that part? And now we have another Soderberg connection. You know, it's funny, I kept thinking, I kept trying to remember, who is the dad going to turn out to be? Is it Ving Rames? It's got to be, I just thought it was going to be Ving Rames. So we'll put Ving Rames. It would have made no, it would have made even less sense than Gerald McCraney,

but that's where I thought it was going. I love Ving Rames. We don't. We don't. His iconic 90s run is still, on the short list of forgotten iconic 90s runs where you look at his IMDB and it's like, oh my God, look at that six years. And I wish you used in my life more.

Half Fast Internet Research. Could really find a lot for this other than they use somebody named Apollo Robbins for the consultant for all the sleight of hand stuff. So maybe you should talk to Apollo if you ever read about it. It's the first movie ever to be directed, first major movie would be directed by Apple's Final Cut Pro-E on Mac Pro.

Apparently a big thing. And then the shooting... Wait, what even is that? I don't know. It's an editing software. Yeah, it's an editing software. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, thank you, Craig. Craig, did you know who Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn were? I know who Catherine Hepburn is. I didn't know who Spencer Tracy was. Yeah, see, that's what I'm telling you, Wesley. Interesting. And I was a film major, so that's a problem.

Yeah, release your book, Wesley. The Toledo... Spencer Tracy. Actually, Spencer Tracy is in it. He's going to be in the book. Oh, good. So, when one member of the team shoots another member to prove it's not a scam, but doesn't try to kill them, it has a name.

This device has a name. It's called the Toledo Twist. That's a real name for it because it's in the movie. That's the name that gives it in the movie. My favorite line that Margarabi has, he goes, Was that a Toledo twist? Apparently, apparently it was once a trick used by the Nazis,

which is described in North by Northwest because Eve Kendall shoots Roger Thornhill. Yes, yes. And that's where it was first used. Then it was also used in an episode of McGiver in 1986, the Toledo twist and probably in some other stuff. But I like the Toledo twist. I mean, we've definitely seen it more than North and,

North by Northwest in McGuiver. It's happened in other places. The last episode of the rewatchable is I'm going to shoot Craig, but not kill him, just as a plot twist. Apex Mountain, Will Smith, no. Margo Robbie, no. No. But I don't feel like she's had her Apex Mountain yet. I think it's coming.

I'm going to say it's nothing yet. Can I just say something, though? Might not happen. She better hurry up. Yeah. I mean, it's not any. anything to do with her. It's just everything is changing. And like, yeah, I will save this for some future conversation we can have about like a very like sad fact about the way movie acting is

changing in terms of like what our great performances are. Yeah. Um, but you know, when she played Tanya Harding, she kind of, you know, she's, she's already played, well, I guess that the woman in, um, in that, in that Roger Ailes movie, the character she played was a composite character. But, But I just, I'm just going to like let the cat out of the bag here. I'm out on playing real people. I'm out. I don't want to see anymore. Like the everybody who wins an Oscar now was winning an Oscar for playing a real person.

I love Richard Williams. I love I love Will Smith. I don't. I don't know. I don't want to begrudge anybody, any success. I don't want to take any roles away from people. but like the idea that like what we now think of as great acting is is actors playing people who already exist just to like it to to bear like it's like we don't trust original performances

or something like that um there's something about there's just something really depressing to me about about our great acting now being done in service of people who have lived or or are living well it's interesting for screenplay they have two categories original screenplay and best adapted screenplay right and maybe they just need best adapted

performance for the Oscars yes best original performance I'm with you because it does seem like half the time it's somebody playing somebody that we already have a history with and that's who wins the Oscar bums me out I mean Kristen Stewart

like so good in that movie it's not like the end to a performance it's not my issue. It's the sort of cultural, it's the, it's the predominance of this way of thinking of thinking about what great acting is. Merrill Street,

the first Oscar she wins since, you know, the 80s is for playing Margaret Thatcher. Not even a, I mean, I love you, Merle Street. Not a great performance. I mean, I, I just, it just kind of, bumms me out. Well, it's like Saturday Live is like that. Saturday Live's like that too. Like most of the stuff they do is, is celebrity impressions. For better and worse, it is what it is.

Yeah, I'm with you. Like Brad Pitt and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, like he's creating a character from scratch that has a backstory. I agree. It's more interesting. Margo Robbie, I'm going to say Apex Mountain for her right now is once upon a time in Hollywood because she's great in that movie. That was an important movie. But I don't feel like it's happened yet. New Orleans's not there yet. New Orleans movies, no. B.D. Wong. I don't know. No, because... He was on Law and Order forever.

Yeah, I mean, also... Kiko, the Houseboy, and in the band played on? No. No, it's not his apex now. Okay. Super Bowl movie scenes, definitely not. Gambling scenes, it's up there. It's in the conversation.

That as a 10-minute... You would put this up there? I think, I don't know what that, how many movies, like the sting, obviously, the last 20 minutes of that, And there's been a lot of good gambling stuff over the years. Maverick. Maverick's got good stuff. Maverick's got great.

Is Maverick a caper movie? Yes, for sure. 100%. That movie taps into some Jody Foster that I actually, we didn't see a lot of over the years. Yeah. For you, Bill Simmons, I wrote a Maverick piece. Yeah. Where I went and rewatched that movie on its anniversary.

Yeah. I think we did 94. We did the year of 1994. I think I wanted to do it. you to do it because I was like this is a really interesting Jody Foster movie. Special request from you. And I was shocked by all of the things that were not terrible about that movie. Yeah, that's good.

Picky Knits. Is Margot Robbie too attractive and too memorable just to see in person to be an under the radar thief? I feel like she's somebody that if you met once, you'd probably remember this person. I don't know if you can slide under the radar in the right ways as a heist thief person. It's just a nitpick.

But I guess I'm just wondering how in this movie that would matter, right? Because, I mean, by her own estimation, she's a petty con artist, right? She just likes, she wants watches. Yeah. And all she has to do, I mean, her beauty is probably what creates the sort of spatial violation

in order for her to get the watch. It's like Miami Vice when Crockett and Tubbs were undercover for five years in that show. And these two handsome guys could just stay undercover in Miami for five years and nobody could remember them. Philip Michael Thomas, you ain't fooling me. Something's up.

We're picking it. A lot of people work in the highest in New Orleans. They have that party. There's 30 people. How is there not an undercover? agent in there. I'm like, when they have that party, I'm like, wait, what, what is this? This happy hour?

Yeah. Is this, I would have a crew of six people. They have 30. And then they're splitting up $1.2 million. It's like, all right. Well, that's not nearly as much as I thought they were everybody who's going to make. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I guess I don't understand. I guess it's feast or famine in that world, right? Like, you either have a heist like the one that you do in New Orleans or you've got, like, you either have the heist that Will Smith pulls and makes, you know, tens of millions of dollars from this thing that I don't even understand what it is for the auto racing community or you're pulling jobs in New Orleans

where you have to split it 30 ways. That's another picking net. Whatever he pulls with the cars, which every... Do you understand it? Everybody in the movie seems to understand it. I've seen this movie multiple times. I still don't totally understand what he did.

He double-crossed somebody with... They had some secret sort of race car something that he then sold to all these other people, but then it turned out it was, it's confusing. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. Even what I just explained, I don't care.

I don't understand. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? I mean, a different caper every time, maybe, or a different caper every season? I don't know. So I guess you could say the whole New Orleans episode, which is like 50 minutes, is episode one, Buenos Aires is episode two and each episode we're in a splashy location. I'm not against it.

I'm not against thieves and capers and pulling stuff off every episode. I think I'm in. Maybe it's a multi-episode. They're trying to pull something off. Wasn't Robert Wagner and Jacqueline Smith? Were they, remember that show? Was it heart to heart?

Remember that show? Heart to heart. Fucking Stephanie Powers. Lights out. Stephanie Powers. Super hot. Yes. But were they, what were they?

Were they detectives or were they? No, they were rich people. No, they were rich people that helped solve crimes and pulled some. Okay, they were detectives. Right, okay, right, right. Okay, they weren't pulling jobs. Along with Sam, their lovable chauffeur. Was Sam an Negro?

No, he was that. There were no black people at Hart-Tart. No, there were no black people on CBS. There were no, Hart-Tart came out in the early 80s. There was three black people on television for five years. Benson. Anyway, go on. Let's just keep going.

That was Benson. It was Emmanuel Lewis and Isaac from the loveboat. And that was it. And Willison and Wilson. And Wilson, yeah, Wilson Arnold. And Nell Carter. Nell Carter. You can't forget Nell Carter.

She's mid-80s. Could this be her made as a 10-episode Netflix show? I'm down. Probably in answerable questions. The only one I have is Focus, too. Not against it. sequel. Marga Robbie's even a bigger star.

Will Smith still famous. Six, seven years later, he's a little older. He's trying to get out of the game. It's one last heist. One last job. Are they together still? Yeah, they're together. They're broken up.

They have a kid. There's a kid. They have to have broken up. They're divorced. They're divorced with a kid. Yes. And the kid's in on the heist somehow. Kids, it's a preschool heist.

What piece of memorabilia? what you want from this movie. I don't know, the necklace. That necklace sucks. I don't know. I don't have an answer for this one. I don't know what I was run. Will Smith's collared shirts? I'd want a car. Wouldn't I want a car? All right. The suitcase of cash, I'm forgetting. Yes, thank you. Who won the movie? This is an interesting one. Hmm. Listen, I'm going to, I got a crazy choice for this. Yeah, Farhad. It's not, not an obvious answer. But listen. when is the last time you watched a character

who had nothing seemingly to do with anything spend two minutes of his own time to do a stunt, right? That person is clearly a stunt man. Yeah. And you are watching a person in a single take, basically, and you can, like, it's such a perfectly orchestrated sequence, too,

because they shoot it from one side and they switched after impact to the other side so he can have blood on his face that you don't see from the other. It's just so well done. That guy risking his life to run into. Also, the other great thing about that sequence that we didn't talk about is he runs the car into Will Smith and Margo Robbie. Like, they're in the car. It was great.

It's really, I think that guy. I don't even know his name. What's the character's name, Horstor Holtzer? I'm going to look it up right now. It was Brennan Brown. as Horst. Yeah. That guy wins the movie for me.

No, and that wasn't his name. Did you say it was Horst? That was him. I think it's Horst. Yeah, I think that's him. All right. So I'm saying Margot Robbie wins this movie. Okay.

Because she goes toe to toe with one of the most famous stars in the world and pulls him out of a movie coma that he's been in basically for five years and reignites all the things I liked about Will Smith. Now, you could say then Will Smith should win the movie, but she's in a better place after this. We don't have a lot of actresses. I call it like the, the Charlize zone, where I think she could have a Charlize type career where Charlize, who's the most beautiful person who's overlived, but it's also an awesome actress. And Margarabi, I don't think is as good of an actress as Charlize as yet. But who knows? Well, she's got a, I mean, she's got a problem, which is that, it's not a problem. I mean, it's a problem for me because it's also one of my,

another of my pet peeves, which is, she's Australian. You'll never know that. You'll never as a movie go or know where she's from because she's always going to have to do this mediocre, non-descript American accent. And I always sort of feel like with, with, those people are always at a disadvantage. Listen to me, those people. They are though. I mean, for one thing, I don't like it generally, because I'm usually not convinced. But I also think it kind of, I mean, other actors don't seem to care, but it is the thing that I notice. And I think with her, it's always, sometimes I don't, I don't mind it with her. In this movie, it didn't bother me that much.

And Wolfo Wall Street was a huge problem because she was supposed to be from Brooklyn. Right, that was tough. It was like Chris Hemsworth. South Brooklyn. Chris Hemsworth and Black Cat, a movie that. Chris Ryan and I love, we haven't really been able to convince anyone else. Eric Hines, my friend Eric Hines

loves Black. Black Hat's a good movie, but Chris Hemsworth is, he's talking like this. It's like, just make the dude from Australia. He's a hacker. Why do I care where he's from? Doesn't matter. But I think found him in jail. I think in Margot, yeah, in Margot Robbie's case, again, like, I don't know how

the movies are so weird now. I don't know how much, they're not even making focus anymore, right? This movie came out in the middle of 2015. This is a net foot. No, they're making it because I think it's now just a Netflix movie. I think Will Smith makes this for Netflix and it's on on a Thursday night.

Does he really make this? But do he make this now? Like, do you think he would really make this? They'd pay Will Smith 50 million bucks. You know, I do think Netflix makes movies like this. And in the streaming era, I do think these movies are going to come back.

With, these $50 million dollar budget movies are going to come back. They will. But, I mean, I kind of wonder. I mean, because, you know, he's making King Richard, which is its own thing, which is going to, I don't know. I mean, not to be terribly cynical about it, but exists to win Academy Awards. Did you see it yet? I've not seen it yet. But I mean.

I heard it's really good, though. I think it's more than an Academy Award movie. But an Oscar movie is not really about what the movie necessarily is. It's just about the, it's my. cynical response to the way things work now where all of this stuff just gets dumped in November and December. And, you know, the people in these movies and the people who've made them and the studios themselves are hoping that it works out for them. I mean, I feel like he's making, he's about to do, he's doing this, he's going to make emancipation. I guess, I don't know if it's still shooting.

I don't know if it's done. a movie about enslavement. And I would like to think that he would go and do another movie-like focus. I just don't know where fun is in the movies right now because I think there's a lot of pressure on these people to do a lot of things that aren't like those sort of mid-budget, middle-tier movies. Like, I mean, focus is really one of the last ones

of these things where it's just driven by a star and an up-and-coming star. There's two different types of star in the movie. Well, it's interesting. He didn't have his born and he didn't have his mission impossible that he could just go back to every four or five years to remind people he was still around. He can make a men and black movie every 10 minutes if you wanted to.

I don't think that's the same though. I think it would have to it would almost be like bad boy and you just dump Martin Lawrence. I mean, bad boy. Mike Lowry was his born. I actually think he should have played Mike Lowry like every five, six years. They can, they do, I mean, Bill, the biggest movie in the world before the pandemic happened or when the pandemic happened was bad boys for life or whatever. It was like, they can still do this every year. It was terrible and I loved it.

Martin Lawrence, you know, just parenthetically, I mean, that's like, that's the best acting that anybody's doing is Martin Lawrence in this. I'm sorry. Like, Bad Boys, too, if I'm picking the, like, 20 greatest performances of all time in any, from any country, Martin Lawrence and Bad Boys 2 is in there. So I feel like both those guys could. All right. Well, maybe we'll invite you to the Bad Boys 2 rewatchables because we haven't, we've done that one yet. Watch that every, every, at least every two months.

It's just. All right. Wesley Morris, we haven't been able to read you lately because you're on a book leave, but at some point we will. And, yeah. You can read you at the New York Times. I'm being drawn back in in January. Okay, good. Great to see you.

I haven't seen you in almost two years because of the pandemic, but I'm sure we'll see each other at some point. I'm going to fix it. Yeah. All right. Thanks. All right. Bye.

All right. This podcast was produced, as always, by Craig Horlebeck. We'll be back next week during, at some point, Thanksgiving week, closer to when you're eating Turkey. So see you then.