The Rewatchables - ‘Ghost’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: July 28, 2020

The spirits of The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Amanda Dobbins come back to earth to rewatch the 1990 romantic thriller ‘Ghost’ starring Patrick Swayze, Demi Moore, and Whoopi Goldberg. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rewatchables is brought to you by a movie called An American Pickle. It stars Seth Rogen, his 1920s factory worker Herschel Greenbaum and his great grandson, Ben. Yeah, he plays both. When Herschel falls into a vat of pickles, he is perfectly preserved for 100 years and emerges in present-day Brooklyn. An American pickle tells the uniquely heartwarming story of Herschel and Ben as they learn the meaning of family. He streamed the new Max Original in American Pickle, August 6th, only on HBO, Max rated PG-13. We're also brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network where you should keep an eye on a bunch

of announcements that we're going to have over the next two weeks. The Ringer NBA show is ramping back up because the NBA is coming this weekend. That includes my podcast going back to three podcasts a week. And Ryan Rissillo will be jumping in as well. So if you love the NBA, go check us out there. Don't forget to check out the big picture with Sean Fennacy. coming up Get Off by train!

Ghost is next. An experience to share. All right, an all-star cast today. My longtime co-worker, friend, and rewatchable's companion, Chris Ryan, is here. Hi, Bill. Get Off My Train makes it sound like we're doing Unstoppable. Special guest, Amanda Dobbins.

You said you cried multiple times on the rewatch of this movie. Is that true? It is true. And in fact, I watched the ending twice and cried both times. So just a lot of emotions and sexual innuendo to discuss here. There's some outwardly hilarious innuendo scenes in here. There's some sad scenes.

There's some great special effects. And I think the thing that shocked me the most is how gosh darn rewatchable this movie is 30 years later. Once you get past a little some of the dated stuff, it's cast perfectly. The thing that shocked me, this movie, was a monster. This was the number one movie in 1990. It made over 500 million worldwide. It beat Pretty Women and Home Alone in 1990. It got nominated for an Oscar. It won Whoopi Goldberg and Oscar. Chris, did you, do you remember this happening at the time? Yes, because I remember this as the greatest date movie of all time. And this was the movie that I went to on my first date.

Are you serious? Wow. Yes. Yes. In 1990, this was the first date that was not like dressing up in a Parker Lewis can't lose rayon shirt and slow dancing with somebody at a school dance. This was the first time I got 20 bucks or whatever it was. I mean, I'm probably sure it was like 10 and got to take a girl to a movie. I think we went with a couple of other quote unquote couples. And we talk a lot of in this podcast about movies that need to be seen in the theater because of like their spectacle. Like Armageddon, you got you had to see it. and you were like, even Jaws.

Like, you got to see Jaws in the theater because you get to see the vis, like the whole horizon of the ocean. There's something about, there was something about seeing ghost in a movie theater, in the dark, maybe with somebody you were interested in romantically. And that damn song playing,

that was absolutely magical. And I think that's why people kept going back to it over and over again. This was like buying the hooty and the blowfish record six times back in 1990. It's like, the only way this movie makes half a billion dollars is by people going over and over and over again. And I think that there's a lot to that. Amanda, is the date movie dead?

Yes. There's nothing that inspires this level of romance and crying, but also comedy, but also there's a theft slash heist plot somehow in this and a lot of action scenes all at once. It's a something for everything movie that also at the end of the day reminds you that you just want to be in the dark, listening to Unchained Melody with someone that you like.

I started dating my college girlfriend of three years in the fall of 89. So 1990, special soft spot for it because I feel like half of the dates we ever had was just going to a movie, especially during the summers. Like she was living at her parents' house. And, you know, it was like a chance to just get away for a few hours, maybe have a little dinner after. And it's kind of just what you did in 1990. So I was looking at all the movies that came out this year.

Pretty Woman was another one. I remember going to both of those on dates, but you talked about how this movie just stayed out. So it comes out the weekend of July 13 to 15th, which so it's a 30th anniversary of this month. It is still in the box office making another $5 million on Columbus Day. And if you look at the arc of it, it's basically $12, $12 million, $11 million, $10 million.

by the week all the way through the summer, it's in the theaters for four months. Chris, when did this stop happening where movies were just in the theater for four months? This was like last 15 years, maybe? I think whenever it was, I mean,

when the emphasis became on opening weekend box office, which I don't really know when that was, but there used to be a time where it was like something like, we did this, we talked about this, back to the future. Where it was like,

back to the future was just in movie theaters for like a year. And that was one of six things you could watch. back to the future, the news, you know, a Phillies game, or back to the future? That was like all we had. So we just would go to these same things over and over again. I think, you know, Titanic must have had a huge opening weekend. But Titanic was the last movie I remember being in theaters for that long. I agree with that. You agree with that, Amanda? I do. And Titanic also had the same. You got to go back and see it again because you're invested in the love triangle aspect. Titanic is a movie I saw in theaters.

Ghost, I was not old enough to see it in theaters or to go on a date, sadly. So Ghost instead lived on for me. I really feel like I was given ghost and dirty dancing on VHS simultaneously. And it was just kind of like, here, you're 10 years old and you need to know about Patrick Swayze. And you need to know about romance in movies and sex in movies. And then you need to have this similar connection to Patrick Swayze in these two movies that I think a lot of people, a generation, my generation did for Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic. But that young investment in the romance story and the romantic lead is definitely a part of ghost.

Well, I remember in college, so the VCRBHS thing fully comes into its own late 80s, but then early 90s, you know, everybody had one in their room. And you could always kind of get a feel for somebody by the six or seven movies they had on VHS. And if you went into pretty much any girl in my dorms room or their off-campus house or whatever, there was like a couple staples, right? When Harry Met Sally was always there, ghost was always there, and dirty dancing. Those were the big three. And it was almost like, it was almost a 95% chance you were going to see three of the three, two of the three. And this is one of those. We taught, we call this podcast The Rewatchables. This was a really

rewatchable movie, and I've noticed that over the years, when he's trying to, when he starts following Willie Lopez around and stuff like that, it's just really gripping for an hour. He's trying to convince Whoopi Grohlberg that he's real. There's some really, really good stuff in this movie. But one of the keys is Patrick Swayze, who has this run.

Swayzy 87 and 91. He goes, dirty dancing, Roadhouse, next of kin, ghost and point break. I don't know if it's, the greatest five in a five-year span ever, Chris, but it's way up there. It's pretty iconic.

Maybe De Niro has a couple in there. Tom Hanks. It's pretty good. Denzel has a couple of good movies of back-to-back. If you're going to take five movies from a five-year span that hit a whole bunch of things, you know, you basically have everything you'd want in there other than the over-the-top drama.

But to Swayze, he did feel a little one-hit, wondering to some degree until this movie. And then I felt like with this movie, this is when he became the A-plus Lister. Yeah, next to Kinan Roadhouse are a little bit separate. But one thing that those movies mostly all have in common is the way in which Swayze is able to be hyper-athletic and hyper-sensitive at the same time, which was not something many movie stars shared. And I can see Amanda agrees with me. Well, you could be a bar bouncer and then the love of somebody's life in back-to-back movies and pull that off. I guess he was the love of Kelly Lynch's life in Roodhouse.

Yeah, sure. What's the list of male A-list actors who guys would feel totally fun with hanging out and girls would want to marry for the rest of their life? It's not a list that's double figures, I don't think. Is it Amanda? How many people is that exactly? Is Kevin Costner on that list?

I think Kevin Costner is another great era-specific example of it. Like, I think that Patrick Swayze run is the perfect 87 to 91 or 92 era. And Kossner is of that mold. It's interesting that you say people would want to marry Patrick Swayze. And I do think that he would make a great partner. And that's a lot of his appeal in Ghost is that he is sensitive and you, you know, you trust him. You want to be around him. But I wouldn't say that that is the number one appeal that Patrick.

Swayze is bringing into the movies and dirty dancing. Yeah, I just, like, I've been reflecting a lot on how much I learned about sex from Patrick Swayze. And I think it's just a function of when those movies were given to me. But if you watch dirty dancing as, as a 10-year-old and you're trying to learn about how the body moves and what's being implied on the screen, I really don't think that you can find a better example than Patrick Swayze. And that really carries on, at least, in the first 20 minutes of ghosts. They are really playing on the fact that there is a certain sexual charisma that I found very educational. It starts with the outsiders with him. Because you have all these handsome young actors in the same movie and he has the most charisma

of all of them. And by the time it finally really happened for him in a big way and dirty dancing, there was a five-year run there where he's in a bunch of movies. He's at like Red Dawn, things like that. But it hadn't totally happened. And then 30 Dancing was a phenomenon. And kind of a hard movie to explain. Like my daughter, who liked it was also like, that girl's 17? Yeah. What's going on here?

What's with this 15-minute abortion subplot? There's some really dated stuff in that movie, but at the same time, it was a phenomenon like ghost was. So Swayze is in two, I would say, of the five romantic phenomenon movies of an entire generation. Yeah. Which is pretty hard to do. and is also an action star at the same time. And was a really good S&L host. It was a nice run.

I don't know really why it ended. I don't have a lot of answers for that. He made that two wang-foo movie, and the wheels just kind of came off. And I don't know whether we had just, Swayze is one of those actors where it was only supposed to be like a five, six-year run. You know, we see that with actresses too sometimes

where it's kind of, you know what you're getting after five movies and there's nowhere else to go. I don't know. I think a lot it was built into his, his athleticism and his, like, balletic kind of movement through a frame and that had a lot to do with kind of his charm. I mean, even in point break, he's still like such a nimble, like weird like physical presence in that movie. So as he got older, maybe if that stuff was a little bit harder for him, I mean, obviously his life

ended so tragically short. But, you know, I think that that was part of what it was. It was almost like this lightning in a bottle, like even watching him go up and down stairs and ghost, you're just like, wow, this guy's like Gene Kelly or something. What about that part when he swings from the window to grab the thing they're lifting up through the window? It's so great. It's like it's totally Swayzy. Like if Tom Cruise had done that,

he would have been studying how to do it for five weeks and it would have been this very Tom Cruise robotic athletic. But Swayze, you just kind of feel like he almost improv that. They're like, wait, what are you doing? You're going to crash out. There's a physicality to him that was just different. Yeah, there is. just a real physicality.

And yeah, come on, Bill. Have you seen Dirty Dancing recently? I watch it. I'm a grown woman. I was just blushing. I was like, I hope my husband does not come in this room because I'm having some time with myself and watching Patrick Swayze move. And, you know, that physicality does lend him to, like, being an action star.

But I think Dirty Dancing is an anomaly and that it's just like a great dance movie that somehow we all saw. It was not supposed to be the hit and the cult classic that it was. And then Ghost is a great example of using his physicality and his action star in service of ultimately a love story. But they just don't make as many of those genre blend movies anymore. And so he kind of gets lost. If you're just making him an action star, then you're not really playing to the type of physicality that is speaking to me, Amanda Dobbins, if you catch my drift. Right.

Who is Patrick Swayze now? I would say closest is Channing Tatum, who is also. a dancer and has a real physicality and kind of like the tough guy, not not the most voluble of individuals but a real charm and you want to spend

time with them and has done dance movies and romance and also drama. Producer Craig thinks Gosling. I think that's a good one too not to spoil future categories, but I had Gosling has the same appeal when he's on screen. I just kind of get uncomfortable and don't really want to talk and just

kind of want to sit and like watch it happen. And he doesn't really have to talk either. He can just kind of be there. And it's great. I was going to say Jason Statham. What? I'm just kidding. You had me for a second. So 1990 was a secretly really fun popcorn movie year. And there's a lot going on too because just in general, being a movie fan was really fun that year. We've talked about a little on this podcast before, but that's when Premiere magazine is really taken off. That's when Goldman's when Goldman's writing his New York magazine columns.

That's when, is entertainment weekly? Is that going yet? It is, right? Yeah. I think so. And there's a whole, there's not, we're not in that sequel comic book stretch there. So the number two movie that year, Ghost was one, Pretty Woman was two. What a time to be alive.

Home Alone, three. But then you go, Teenage Ninja Turtles, these are all the movies that made over 100 million that year. The hunt for Red October. total recall, die hard to, driving Miss Daisy, Dick Tracy, and then back to the future part three. But then there's this whole other group of fun movies, like presumed innocent, flatliners,

Dance With Wolves came out that year, The War of the Roses, Hard to Kill, Mark for Death, Tango and Cash, steal Magnolias. It just kind of goes on and on. It's the movie year, you know, the kind of movie year that made us all, all really like movies.

And that just doesn't really happen in the same way anymore. We just have these 40 wholly original. Pacific Heights came out that year. I just watched that movie. With the exception of Ninja Turtles, that's like, what a great movie star year. Yeah. Kindergarten. That's another one.

Did I mention Goodfellis? Joe versus the volcano. That was Hank's. Not having totally figured out Hank's being Hanks yet. Chris's favorite Exorcist 3. Internal Affairs, which is a dark horse to be a rewatchable at some point. The freshman came out that year, Christmas vacation. So it was just, it was a loaded year and somehow ghost and pretty woman ascended all of it.

Amanda, do you think, so you take when Harry Met's out of the year before, and then you take ghost and pretty woman, is this the birth of Hollywood realizing that romance was an actual monster box office thing for them potentially? Yes, absolutely. And I think it's probably more pretty woman and ghost than, you know, when Harry Mott Sally is the quote, like birth of the modern rom-com as we talked about on the rewatchables. And it definitely every single strict rom-com owes a debt to that movie. But this is when I think people realize, oh, with a love story, you can get all the audiences and, you know, female audiences, especially to the movie theaters. And I, like, I had forgotten that Ghost was. this juggernaut, but in a lot of ways, it is the Titanic of its decade. And certainly, it's hard to imagine Titanic happening without Ghost making as much money as it did. Yeah, I was going to ask, because the one thing about Ghost and Titanic that different, it's different than Pretty Woman or Harry and Sally is when you add that level of tragedy into the mix, like if you can get a little bit of tragedy going with the romance, that is a very

potent, like, chemical reaction, if you can do it right. Because, like, it's totally different. Like, I think I remember kind of when Harry Met Sally just sort of going over my head the first time I saw it, because, you know, I'd never been in any kind of, like, adult relationship at that time. But Ghost, you're just like, I get it. I get that this is about, like, a love that transcends, you know, this mortal coil. And when you could kind of move into that area, like, you, It's a pretty universal appeal. It's also one of those movies that the couple is so in love and it's such a good relationship. You kind of look at whoever you're sitting next to and like, eh, can we really have this?

Are we even 40% there? Yeah. Would you be pining for me well after my death like Demi Moore does this movie? Speaking of Demi Moore, another key crucial component in this movie. she's ice cold when this movie gets made. She's coming off a four-year stretch of that includes wisdom, the seventh sign, which I kind of like. Me too.

And we're no angels. And the only thing she really does over that second half of the 80s, other than clean up her act, is she marries Bruce Willis. And they become a quote-unquote red-hot celebrity couple, only she doesn't have the movie career to go along with all of the magazine covers and all the stuff they're getting, this movie comes out and she becomes an A Plus list star. A year later, poses nude and pregnant for Vanity Fair, which I think was

probably the most iconic magazine cover that I can remember the last 30 years, right? Is there one bigger cover than that? For me, no, I think, especially in terms of what celebrity covers and definitely kind of cements that era of Vanity Fair. Yeah, I think all things, is considered probably the most important magazine cover and really kind of cemented Vanity Fair strategy of having, you know, celebrities on covers in provocative ways that drove conversation. You even have to read the piece. The only one in competition would be that Sports Illustrated cover with the Lakers with Dwight Howard and Steve Nash being, this is going to be fun.

Yeah, that's it. It's those two in the finals. And she becomes a massive star after that. But I think all, I mean, I'm older than you guys, but always liked her. Chris and I talked about him this in Almost Fire. Like she, she's probably the most winning performance in that movie. And it was one of those things you're always rooting for. Then go, she cuts her hair.

How do we feel about the haircut all these years later? So pro. It's, I think it's an essential. Oh, wow. Chris is shaking his head. I'm shaking my head because I'm, I'm 100% there with you. This is an essential part of the movie and the 90sness. And I think also it would, because it's new for the movie,

it kind of reintroduces her as Demi Moore and Ghosts. Can you imagine if she looked in this movie as she looked in every single other movie with the longer hair? It wouldn't make any sense. And, you know, those screenshots of her with just a single tear rolling down each cheek have kind of become iconic and are memes now at this point.

But it would be very, you know instantly that it's ghost because of the haircut. And it would be weird with the long hair. I would say that Demi Moore in this movie, not only with the hair, but with the crying, found her like Mariano Rivera Cutter. Like she was like, oh, I can do this better than anyone has ever done anything. And when she drops the waterworks at the end of this movie, I defy you to not feel something. I like, you are dead inside.

I wish Fennessee was here so that we could find out how dead fantasy was inside when he sees to me more cry. That's why we didn't invite him because he's dead inside. and he can see all the ghosts of the movie. I knew Demi Moore had this in her from St. Elmo's Fire, the famous Billy Hicks. You break my heart then again, you break everyone's heart scene. She just goes to a whole other place acting.

And she's like, oh, there's something here. I found out in the research, one of her great talents for this movie that they exploited is she can cry in command and the tears can come out at different times from each eye, which I haven't really seen ever the right. eyes go in and then the left eye a second later is some tears flat out of there and then it goes back like she she's ambidextrous with the crying which I think is uh impressive switch hitter yeah Amanda's almost speechless yeah I I'm trying to think about how you actually learn that you

can do that you know probably probably from pain and agony that's sad but is there training involved or is that just just one of the great gifts that has been given to her well it's essential in this movie. Yeah. Because she's a great crier. We've seen, I think criers and screamers are two things we take for granted in movies,

especially in horror movies. Really hard to find good screamers. Like, people that they actually really seem scared in a blood-curdling way. And same thing for criers. If somebody can just rip it off, like McConaughey at the end of a time to kill.

That's right. The speech. Yeah, he's good. The tears are coming down. He's good. Interstellar too when he sees the videos of his family and he just lets it go. Like, he can, he can get into it. If you, if you could sneak cry like that as an actor, it's a pretty big weapon.

I think that to me more crying is also important because it's really the only thing she gets to do in this movie. Like, she gets to do one important piece of artwork, which I hope we'll talk about at great length. And then otherwise, primarily she's just there to react and look confused and cry. But she's so good at crying and so. good at emoting it that it's like, well, why would she do anything else? Just let her do this and stand in for everyone. And it really is, as Chris said, the reason the movie works is because she is

such an emotive, excellent crier and just does it for two hours that at some point you start crying too. Amanda, great influential haircuts of the 90s. Demi Moore and Ghost, George Clooney when he did that. What was that one called when he kind of went the short crew cut, but it was combed forward? The Caesar? Yeah, the Cesar. Caesar. Sure. Yeah. Aniston and friends.

Yes. With the, the Rachel. That's really the top three, right? Am I leaving anything out? I think you got to add in when Gwenteth Paltrow and Brad Pitt had matching haircuts. And they were also engaged and looked like each other, kind of the blonde, which is really, it's a blonde variation on the Demi Moore, if we're being honest.

But I think that was important. Also important because the best man in my wedding, Jeff Gallo, his wife, Susie, that was when she unveiled her theory that famous celebrities like and are attracted to people who look like themselves. And she was like, and this was the crystallization of that when Gwyneth Poucher and Brad Pitt decided to look like non-identical twins.

And she was like, this is celebrities want to be with people who look like them. It's a great theory. Don't you also feel like it's true that most couples start looking like each other as they stay together. Definitely start dressing like each other. I think that's true.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I think that also, there was also like that period of time where it depends on whether or not fashion is not and not androgynous, but like is kind of like men's fashion and women's fashion kind of intertwined for a while there in the 90s as well.

My last thing before we get to the Oscar stuff in the categories, Craig, hit record on this for a social media breakout. I can't do much better in this topic. This movie comes the closest to what I feel like going to heaven or hell is actually like out of any movie I've seen.

I think it's really this simple. This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard on the rewind. I think you die. You die at either there's a light or just creepy guys and bad special effects and shadows come out and they pull you away

as your eyes bulge and you just go down in the depths of hell. And it's one or the other and that's what happens. You think ghosts, comes up the afterlife, the best. Yes, the best of any movie I've seen. I just think it's that simple.

It's like there's a light or there's creepy guys in shadows. And you're just done. And that's it. It's that easy. So hold on. I have so many questions about this. So you think that that's it that after like either the gremlins take you away or Patrick Stacey walks into the rainbow light?

That's it. It's over? Depends on what kind of life you led. Okay. Wow. Yeah, if you're like Carl, the fucking ghosts are coming, man. Those evil shadow ghosts, bra la, blah. Yeah.

Okay. That's what's at stake. Chris is just out. I'm speechless. Chris, you don't like that, you don't like talking about the afterlife. I didn't realize it would make you this uncomfortable. Bill, I'm openly asking you to do flatliners as a rewatchable.

Like, I'm ready to go. I want to find out what's on the other side. But you get here, it's definitely not like two-dimensional demons that rise out of the shadows of cobblestone. How do we know? How do you know? Do you believe in purgatory? Do I believe in purgatory?

Yeah. I think I'm in it. Okay. I think we're all in it. Well, we definitely believe in ghost. I believe in ghosts as we covered in the country. Yeah, we got that on conjuring. Can we talk about Whoopi or what?

Yeah, we're going to get there one second. The screenwriter Bruce Joel Rubin, quote, wanted to tell a ghost story from the ghost perspective. He was inspired by Hamlet and the ghost of Hamlet's father saying, revenge my death. I thought, wow, what's that look like as a 20th century movie? Somehow, Jerry Zucker ends up

directing it. Now, when I was growing up, the Zucker brothers, and I think David Abrams was the other guy, or David Abrams. Can't remember his name. They made airplane, they made naked gun, they made airplane two. They were comedy guys. So when Jerry Zucker was

directing ghost, it's like, well, that's weird. This is a Patrick Swayze, Demi Moore movie about the afterlife. Why is like the naked gun guy directing this. But he did a really good job. Demi Moore said, I thought this was either a recipe for disaster, something really special,

really amazing, or really an absolute bust. So she was like all in one way or the other. It ended up being huge. It won two Oscars. It won the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Whoopi wins. Whoopi. And then it gets Oscar nominations, for best picture, best original score, best film editing. Chris Ryan, how do you feel about Whoopi's Oscar 30 years later?

Deserved. I mean, I have to look at who she beat, but I was trying to figure this out, guys. Like, what's a comp for someone who shows up this late in a movie and completely takes it over? I can't think of somebody who shows up, it's pretty much the beginning of the second act, I guess,

but it's about 40 minutes in, right? When Otom A shows up. I just can't think. of somebody who shows up and just absolutely takes the movie over in this way. And it is the absolute change up that this movie needs. Like, it's so, it's so sad and it's so sappy between Molly and Sam and Ditto and like, are they gonna, and fucking Tony Goldwin's big creep energy coming through in every frame. He's sweating for 90 minutes of this movie. But what becomes in and is just like the perfect amount of comic relief, but still,

stays in the movie. Like, she is not doing bits. And it, it almost reminds me of Robin Williams and Goodwill Hunting. Like, that's how, like, to see somebody who's able to do, yes, I have some lines here and there, but I'm going to give this movie this, like, incredible emotional core and be the, the main mode of communication for these two characters is incredible. Well, we have the Dionne Waiters Award, which she's not eligible for it because she's in this movie too much. But that's inspired by in the NBA. Somebody comes in off the bench and gets hot. this is more like a mid-season trade. This is like the Rashid Wallace trade in 2004

where the movie's going along during the season, then all of a sudden this new force comes into it and completely transforms the movie. And I think you're right. It's so rare to see somebody come in 40% into a movie and dominate it like that. Amanda, I'm going to give you the category. As you know, best supporting actress can be a mixed bag.

there's years when it's an absolute atrocity, there's years when it's really good. This was one of the really good years. Whoopi wins. Annette Benning and the Grifters. Lorraine Brockone, Goodfellas. Mary MacDonald with Dances with Wolves, which I think everybody thought she was going to win. And then Diane Ladd and Wild at Heart was our token old person. Right.

You need one of those. End of the career one. But that's about as good as we're going to get with Best Supporting Actress, right? It is. And I also think it's a best case result because, you know, we talk a lot about how the Oscars don't acknowledge comedy or comedic performances. And if someone does get nominated for a comedic performance, which I think you have to argue that Whoopi Goldberg is the comedy part of this movie as well as being, as Chris said, like the emotional connector and having a nice moment with Sam at the end. But normally if it's a nice to be nominated and the Oscars for the comedic actor or. actress. And in this case, she actually wins, which is great. I wish the Oscars would do that more often. Agree. Chris made the key point, too. She's not doing a bit. It's not an S&L sketch, which I think is what eventually happened to her as a movie actress. She's doing Whoopie as the S&L sketch, whoopee as the over-the-top, whatever. This is a real character. I really like Otomey Brown.

And you know it's a good character because they easily could have spun her off. No different than like Tommy Lee Jones and the Fugitive when they built U.S. Marshals around him. They easily could have made the Otomay Brown rip-up movie. Yeah. Yeah. Chris, how did that not happen? How did they miss that?

You know, there's one thing, I think the thing that this movie has going for it more than almost anything, and it's the reason why it's so rewatchable is it's a no more, no less movie. It is just in a perfect little container. If it had gone on for 15 more minutes, if there had been 15 more minutes of Willie and Carl,

if there had been 15 more, 20 more minutes of Odomay, or if there had been a sequel, or if it would have been the further adventures of Odomay and Sam joins her at some point in the adventure. Like, this movie is so perfect because it's so perfect, because it just fits right into its lean. So I think that's why, even though you might be like, man, she could have carried her own movie.

They just had the good sense not to do that. Oscar movies that year, Dancers Wolves won, Goodfell is lost famously. Ghost was in there. and then Awakening's and Godfather part three. It's just a classic all over the map, 19, late 80s, early 90s movie year.

Kathy Bates won for misery, and then best actor, Jeremy Irons wins as Claus von Bulow. Great performance. Koster loses. De Niro loses for Awakenings. I don't know how he got nominated. Girard de Pardieu and Serenot de Bergerac.

And then Richard Harris in the field, which is a really good movie. Amanda, did Swayze again, it boned over there? Do you have been okay with seeing Swayze in the best actor nominees or is that taking it too far? That's tough. I mean, I think Patrick Swayze is underappreciated forever and ever. And I also, quite frankly, think that physicality and charisma of a certain type underrepresented at the Oscars. What Patrick Swayze is doing is one of one. We could use a little more sex at the Oscars. but I'm also okay with Patrick Swayze just being within the universe of ghosts.

There's something nice about the fact that seeing him in this movie without that many other comps beyond that amazing run. It's still like he's just always there being Sam for you. And I don't want to ruin that magic. The other thing we should mention before we get to the category is how badly this movie could have and probably should have gone. because we've seen other people try this kind of movie and it's usually either it's a miss or it's bad

or in the cases of what dreams may come. Remember that movie? Oh my God. There's been some of those where it's just like this is the worst movie I've ever seen in my life. And what was that Kevin Spacey one where he's the disfigured teacher? Kaylee Joe Osmond. Is that what that is?

Pay it forward? Oh, pay it forward. Yeah. But those movies that are trying to, to do good things in the movie. And usually it just goes horribly. And it just doesn't here. It's about as well as you're going to do.

$22 million budget made over $500 million. Roger Ebert, two and a half stars. Quote, no worse an offender than most ghost movies, I suppose. Not a huge fan. Didn't like the ending. Wow. Anti-ending. What?

That's heartless. Roger's tough, man. If you're not advancing the characters, he's out. You can't manipulate his emotions. He needs character development. He wants to know more probably about Carl. What Carl's backscore? I also have some questions about Carl.

I have a lot of Carl's questions. Well, we have a lot of Carl's plans. We're going to take a break, and then we're going to do the categories. Let's take a break to talk about an American pickle. It stars Seth Rogan as Herschel Greenbaum in 1920s American immigrant, who is accidentally brined in Nevada Pickles for 100 years emerging in present-day New York City and Seth also plays Herschel's only surviving relative, his great-grandson Ben,

mild-mannered computer coder, living in Brooklyn from the producers of the disaster artist in 50-50. An American Pickle tells the uniquely heartwarming story of two men from different generations who must learn the true meaning of family. Stream the new Max original and American Pickle, August 6th, on one of my favorite streaming services.

HBO Max, it's only there, rated PG, 13, back to the podcast. All right. Most rewatchable steam. We'll start with the pottery scene, which... Yes, we will! It's just an amazing... It's really evolved over the years.

It's now hilarious. It still has the same sort of romance to it. It's how phallic and over-the-top erratic it is, is almost like, is this real? This is happening? My daughter was like, what is going on? The overhead shot were the thing. she's making just honestly just looks like a penis. Like they're just going for it. The shot in which they are both like making the pottery and the overhead shot was just

really, really upsetting. And I'm a grown woman now. Bill, I said to you before we did this that I thought I learned about sexual innuendo from this scene in particular. Like I remember watching this scene and being like, you know what? Something else is going on here. They're not just making pottery. This isn't just about ceramics. Yeah. Like I've, been to art class. It's not really like this, thankfully. But then rewatching it as an adult, it is the most phallic thing that I've ever seen. And I guess I didn't understand that when I was 10 or whenever I saw this. But it's really obvious. It's not innuendo. It's just a giant penis that they're shaping and reshaping in an upward. I mean, even the emotions that I'm doing right now in

Zoom are really inappropriate. And I'm very sorry, everybody. But it's just, I didn't make this just there. It's a good point. It's not even inue. know. That being said, well beyond it. I remember this is just such a crucial part of my sexual education and awakening. Yes. Is watching Ghost in 1990 and being like, so what's that about?

And then in 1992, I saw a basic instinct and I was like, that's what that's about. Oh, I got it. I get this. The pot was not supposed to fall. part. They never are. And it was an ad lib. They just kind of,

they kind of kept going with it. Adlib, they kept going with it. It happens to all pots. It's a famous scene. And then I think it was Naked Gun 3, paraded it with they were doing it. And then just more and more hands were coming in on the,

on the whatever. But, and then the song, obviously, Unchained melody kicks in. and that was one of the most revived 50s, you know, a song that had come and gone, and then they just completely redid it. And I think it became a number one hit.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's huge slowdowns. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so we got that one. Sam gets shot would be my next rewatchable scene. Bonnie, you got. They do a really nice job.

And again, I've seen this movie a bunch of, of times. You always forget, like, when he runs after the guy and then looks back and sees himself and all of that's just really good. Demi Moore's really good in that scene, too. But it's a very good scene. Very tense.

Willie breaks into Molly's apartment, and Sam foils it realizes he can scare the cat and then follows him back. That's why, I like when he harnesses his ghost powers. No, no, please. Money's got a gun on. Hi, kitty.

He's really at that point, he's really, he's figured out, he's figured out how to jump through doors, hopping cars, good stuff. It also explains a ton about cats. Because, you know, like, if you've ever had cats, like you're just sitting there and then it just like takes off like a bat out of hell for something. And you're just like, what the fuck just happened?

It's like, oh, Swayzy. Cats know what's going on with the freaking ghosts and the afterlife in there. Next one is when you mentioned when, Whippy comes in the movie 40 minutes in. That whole scene's really good. He's dressed in a black suit. Black suit?

Could be blue. What a crock of shit. Who is that? Julio! Where are you? Who knew? Who are you? Who are you?

What are you? Who are? Who? Who? Oh! Who are you? You can hear me? Sister.

Don't you hear him? I don't believe this. Hey, my name is Sam Wheat. Listen, can you hear me? Sam Wheat. Say my name. Say it. Leave me alone. Sam Wheat. Sam Wheat. Say it. My name. Sam Wheat. Say it. Talk to me, old am. Say something.

William. Sam Wheat. Really, and really shouldn't be good. That should be where the movie falls apart and it doesn't. It just gets better. Josephina, Consuela. Whoopi trying to meet Demi Moore is good. I'm going to put that honorable mention. Carl. trying to seduce Demi Moore.

Nope. Life turns on a dime. To death forever that there's always going to be tomorrow. But that's bullshit. Sam taught us you have to live for now. Dumping the coffee on his shirt when he just goes full evil, full heel. That's some good stuff there. And then I have the last two.

Sam gets revenge on Willie. Willie goes to hell. And then Carl dies and goes to hell. Both hell scenes are great. The second one's really funny when they're pulling Tony Goldman away, the shadows. And they do that closer movie. He's like,

oh! He has that split second, too, of being like, is this heaven? Sam, we're hanging out. Hey, Sam, what's happening? Good to see you. And then I guess you could have the ending, although the ending kind of freaks me out. Just because of the reality of the emotions?

Or just because you believe that that's actually what happens when everyone dies? No, when he says goodbye to Demi Moore, it goes on, as you know, I'm fantasy is fully dead. I'm like half dead. It goes on like two minutes too long. I never really tapped in the emotion of it. The special effects are bad. Ghostly, Swayzy, the 1990 version.

We can put that in what age to worse. But it's like just the CGI just is not there yet to pull that scene off. But it still works. It's still emotional. Let me tell you when like the minute that they linger on her face before she says, Ditto that last time, I mean, I can't not cry. That is all time for me. So I think, yeah.

Where are you guys on Sam inhabiting Oda Me's body as a rewatchable scene? Because I did some, in my research, I saw that that was one thing that a couple of critics were like, this would have been more effective if it had been whoopee on screen. And they had done the scene where it's whoopee and to me dancing together and hugging one another. I think it's an incredible scene anyway. and it's also like probably my favorite moment. But I forgot on rewatch how that plays out and how the Orlando scene earlier,

you're like, oh, like, you know, this should be Whoopi Goldberg on screen. Well, one problem is he's way taller than Whoopi Goldberg. So they're like that, just like the physicality of that is always weird to me. But yeah, I think if they make this movie now, which would be definitely be different in a lot of ways, 100% Whoopi Goldberg stays in that scene.

I don't think they switch over, right? I think in 1990, America probably wasn't ready for that. I mean, this was an era when they were afraid to even acknowledge gay characters on TV shows. So just them having a same-sex dance kiss thing. I don't think they would have done it in 1990. I think they would do it now. Yeah, I agree with that. Though, you know, I do think there would be a significance to having it stay in Whoopie's body

because, as we pointed out, it's not something that you would have seen in 1990 and honestly don't see it that often in major Hollywood movies now. But I do also wonder whether the fact of it being like, oh my God, it's like, whoopee and Dumee would take away from the, you know, it's hard as a viewer to focus on anything other, oh my gosh, they're doing this. And it's important that they're doing this. But then you're not really caught up in the emotion of like the actual last moments between Sam and Molly. I think I'm okay with the choice. I think either way it works, I think it's just a different movie of it's not him again because part of the

thing is you want them to be reunited and it's really the only way it's going to happen. What do you have for most rewatchable scene, Chris? I love a, like, you know, the pottery is probably the most iconic. I love the ending. I love when he jumps into Whoopi's body, but I actually am like very, very, very

fond of the entire Rita Miller sequence. Tell them you've been wondering how they did on the Gibraltar securities. I was just wondering, how did you do on the Gibraltar securities? The Gibraltar Securities. Well, it looks like we topped out on that one, huh? We sure did.

We sure did. That was a very useful tip. Good old Randy. Good old Randy. Got a good old head on his shoulders. Her shoulders. Her shoulders. Randy.

Yeah. So what, and just all the, like, that Randy has a great head on his shoulders, her shoulders. Like, you know, just all the, like, the, the, I, it, I love that whole thing. I think that's like peak Whoopi doing that whole thing throughout the bank. And it corresponds with also like absolute all-star level performance from Goldwyn just being Coke-swetted out as he's trying to get this money out of the account.

The bank tower in that scene with Whoopi, who's kind of like what the hell is going on, it's the same lady from Naked Gun with the I must kill the queen. I think it's their mom. I think it's the Zucker's mom. Oh, wow. So, yeah, that would be my other nominee and my, my, my, what do you have, Amanda? I agree with Chris. I think that Swayze and Goldberg have, like, nice chemistry.

So any time that they actually get to have their, their buddy moments, whether it's like the, the bank teller sequence and they're bickering, it's, it's really nice. I enjoy all of those. But like, come on, I'm doing the pottery scene. Like, I'm doing the pottery scene. Okay. Uh, what's age the best? We talked about Demise, uh, her big haircut for this. So the backstory was she was cast.

she had long hair, did not tell the director she had cut the hair, showed up on set with the short hair, and they were like, what the, what the fuck is going on? And then they kind of liked it. And now it became, I think, one of the key decisions of the movie is that it felt like a new to me more. Um, anytime someone passes through, there's a lot of, I'll just put this as what's age the best. There's a lot of unintentional comedy with Swayze. There's some, some faces he's making. The things he does when he, like, somebody passes through his body and he kind of does the convulsing. Some, some eye bulges, some, like, some horror. Like, you could make a nice two-minute video of just the faces he makes in this movie. Swayzy supercut, yeah. Yeah, the Swayzy

supercut of goofy faces. I really like their apartment. As you know, I love, I love movie real estate. It's a great apartment. Nice big, high ceiling. with the little the upstairs thing. It was really nice. That was actually the reverse conjuring where they find more square footage and it's a good thing. Although I guess it is a bad thing.

They do get sort of cursed by finding the new square footage. But yeah, amazing loft. We mentioned Demi Moore with a great choir. She was another one's aged the best. There was a great S&L sketch

off this movie with Victoria Jackson when Swayze was the guest host where he goes back to hang out with her and she's just like disgusting and she's like farting and picking her nose. And he's like, Molly, what are you doing?

It's really good. It's, it's, it's probably online, but it's a really fun four minutes of him just being, like, not realizing all the terrible things she had going. Okay, Tony Goldman for what stage the best. Wow. So he was so good, so coke sweaty, so evil and unlikable in this movie, and so memorable that I actually think it hurt his career. It was hard to, and it's a credit to how.

big this movie became, it was almost hard to disassociate Tony Goldwyn with the actor. And he's even talked about it in subsequent years about people would, he'd be in an airport and somebody would be like stink eyeing him because he was the guy and ghosts. Like, he was the real person. And it really wasn't until scandal a good 20 plus years later when he's the president when he was able to kind of really be Tony Golden. He had a solid career. But I almost feel like this performance was so good and so distinct. It kind of hurt

him for the rest of the 90s or do I just like him too much? What do you guys think? I think that's right. I mean, he definitely also shows up in these kind of smarmy rich guy roles that you don't trust for the next however many years. I rewatched the Pelican brief recently. And that's a, that's Tony Goldwyn as the aide to the president. Great movie, by the way. And I agree with you that for a long time, people are just like, no, that's the bad guy from ghost. I think scandal really did reinvent him. I do think there's a world in which he could have been a lead actor like a good guy in a movie. Oh, sure.

I mean, there's a world in which he could play Sam. I mean, he might not be the dancer, but he's like, when in the beginning of that movie, they're just like neither of them are wearing shirts and they're doing demo on the, on the apartment. You're like, yeah, man, like, he's pretty fit. Like, he's a good looking guy. He could be a movie star.

They do a nice job of upon rewatches of setting him up in the first 25 minutes with Sam. Where he's like, hey, I know I can help you with that account. Sam's like, no, no, I got it. He's like, so what do you and Molly doing today? Going to the theater. Oh, yeah? What theater?

Yeah, you know what block you guys might be walking down afterwards? Oh, my God. The one on 72nd, right around Fifth Street. But yeah, he's good. He's so smart. He's such a good piece of shit, that guy. And you really do feel betrayed for Swayzee. What do you have for what's age the best?

Anything else? I just have the concept of like a non-spooky ghost. I just the whole premise of this movie that someone lives on and is just hanging around and talking with you, but it's not a haunted house situation and we're not in the conjuring and it's not Harry Potter or whatever. It's just someone who has some unfinished business and you need to chat and some work things out and then you move on has become a real pop cultural force. And that's because of because of ghost. Chris, anything else? I would just say Soho as a cinematic backdrop, as a landscape. I really like after hours as well, this Scorseseo movie,

which is set in and around like Tribeca and Soho in this area. So I think that that apartment that they get is supposed, I think it's like Canal and Broadway or just south of Broadway on Canal. And I think I even know that building. And it's just a really cool because it does empty out after business hours and becomes this ghost town. Well, it's age the worst. The opening credits are terrible.

The CGI special effects are very 1990-ish. I mean, if they were going to re-release this movie, I think they would probably do the George Lucas and gently fix a couple of things. The old work computers, when Sam's handling $14 million accounts on these green font, it just seems like the easiest thing ever to hack. Then they're shocked that the money's missing.

it's like, yeah, because you're on the worst computer of all time. There's just funny to see those fun or brought me back to my Boston Herald days. There's a long Arsenio Hall cameo that just has not age well. I had this one, Carl and Sam, thinking it's hilarious to pretend to be sick and contagious on an elevator. Yeah. Has not age well. I was like, oh, no, if somebody did that now, they probably get arrested. And then I got to throw this out.

Like Swayze dying prematurely. it has changed how you watch the end of this movie. Like he only died when he was 57. And if you read anything about his life, like he had this wife that I think her name was Lisa that he was really tight with. And they had like a great relationship. And she kind of turned into the DeB Moore character

as Swayze had this cancer bat on that. And it's hard not to think of him dying early in real life when you watch this movie. Yeah. Because his career was basically done from cancer even before he died like in his early 50s. these. Yeah.

There is a little bit of a hangar around that. Casting what ifs. Did you know Bruce Willis was offered the role of Sam? I did not. Before or after Demi got the job. Same. Like they were going to be the stars. He turned it down.

He didn't think the movie would work with the main character being dead all the time. I had a lot of regrets, called himself knucklehead. And then when it was brought to six cents, decided to do the six cents because he had screwed up once with Ghost. And that's how we end up on the six cents. There's a laundry list of people who, again, it's half-ass internet research, who turned down this movie before Swayze got it. Kevin Bacon, Alec Baldwin, Nicholas Cage, Kevin Costner, Tom Cruise, Johnny Depp, David Dukovni, Harrison, Ford, Mel Gibson, Tom Hanks. Paul Hogan, which was definitely true because he did almost an angel instead.

Kevin Kline, Dennis Quaid, Mickey Rourke, and this is the scary one. John Travolta. All turned down the Swayze part. In Travolta's hands, this goes bad quickly. This is a bad movie. This might even be straight to cable. I don't think it recovers. I don't think you would have pulled it off.

And then Swayze killed the audition. That was it. Here's another one. Whoopi Goldberg, unsure if she was going to be able to do the movie. She had a busy work schedule. So they cast Jackie. Remember Jackie and Harry? So she was going to be the Rita May.

And then at the last minute, Whoopi said, I can do it. And they dumped Jackie. And that was it. Nicole Kidman auditioned for the role of Molly. And they really liked her, but they felt like she wasn't a big enough name. It's impossible to see anybody else put to me as Molly. I agree.

Yeah. Ken Olin from 30-something was supposed to be Carl, but couldn't get out of 30-something. So they had to go with Tony Goldman. That's all I got. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. I need a ruling. Is Vincent Schiavelli? that guy or is he Vincent Skiyvelli?

I think he is that guy, but I think he might double up here for me. I think he might get pants and waiters, which doesn't happen very often. Oh, wow. Okay. Because I'm going to make the case for Ricka Viles. As waiters or

pants? As for the Joey Pants award for best that guy. Yeah. AKA Willie Lopez, aka kind of looks like Luis Guzman's cousin, like they were in a movie together, but you can't remember what movie it was. I only,

anytime I've ever seen him anything else, it's like, oh my God, that's Willie Lopez from Ghost. So I feel like like he wins best that guy

because Vincent Skaveli's been in other stuff. Right. Willie Lopez is Willie Lopez. I was going to nominate Stephen Root, who like what comes of that guy, but it's one of those reverse

where you see him as the detective. And you're like, wait, I know that guy because he goes on to have a long career, but it's an early. That's a great shout. It's the birth of that guy.

It's his pre- Stephen Root stage as of that guy. Yes. Good one. I like that. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for best overacting. Look, Swayze's, Swayze dials it up with some of the faces. The, how horrified he is sometimes when he's doing the, and it's like jaws moving left to right and he definitely dials it up. I have to give it to him.

Who else are the nominees for you guys? I mean, here's the thing. Sheavelli's in the conversation for the Vincent Hanna. award. He's only on the screen for like four minutes total and he is screaming for most of them. I got him for Deanne Waiters. I think Swayze

probably gets it. I yeah, I have Swayze with all the love and gratitude in my heart in this category. But it's just the reaction shots. But it's one of the reasons I like the movie because the reaction shots make me laugh. Deanne Waders goes to Skiyvelli.

He's in three scenes. Yeah. He's really good. I like that. Like trains. St. Amherst. Like train. I like when he hops back in. It's just great. Seems like a guy who'd be on a train. If Whoopie's not eligible, then Patrick Swazey's not eligible for this award.

For which one? For Dian Waders as well. No. The stars can't be eligible. But he's dead. But he's dead. He has nothing to do except stand there and be like, oh, I'm so sad. And he makes it into a whole movie. I'm just saying, I think that we should get. give him an honorable mention for turning what is just like being dead and having nothing to do into one of the most memorable film performances of all time. That's almost its own category.

It's like the Patrick Swayze. I have nothing to do in this movie, but I'm still great. Right. It's like most with the least. It's like Kevin Pollock and a few good men. You know, you're just Sam. The Brandy Booth Award for Best Performance by a Pet. Holly's cat is really some strong.

Give seven out of ten chewyes. Some good scenes. Only one who could see the afterlife. Half-ass internet research. The horrific sounds made by my dark shadow ghosts. They were the sounds of babies crying played at extremely slow speeds backwards. That's how they got those sounds. Because they sound like they were just cutting room floor scooby-doo sound effects.

That's what hell is like, Chris Ryan. When they did the chase scene, it was really cold, but they couldn't have Swayze's character, you couldn't see his breath because it would have ruined the, he's a ghost. Oh, because ghosts don't have breath? I guess not. So what do you think they did?

So he didn't have breath you could see? A little trick. He chewed ice. Apparently if you chew ice, you don't get frost breath. Who knew? I didn't. This film was released on video and laser disc in March 1991.

It sold a record 646,000 videos for rental. And 66,000 laser discs. It made $65 million combined in rentals and sales. Makes sense. I would have guessed it. A total of 20 ghosts appear in the movie. I am Swayzee. Give us the hip-hop ramifications, Chris Ryan.

Huge. I mean, Swayze becomes like this, you know, overall, like way of saying, I'm out, I'm leaving the verse.

I'm leaving this song. We're done here. And then it kind of transcends even ghost itself. It takes on like a new sign signifier relationship. It's like it proves post-structuralism by doing that, you know? So they give notorious B-I-G. aka Biggie Smalls credit for popularizing it.

But it's a recurring theme in the 90s. Apex Mountain. I think you got to go yes for Swayze. I think this is it. Dirty dancing, then Roadhouse, then he does this. It's like the world is his oyster at this point. Yeah. I'll accept it.

Me too. I think because, you know, and then like this leads to point break and point break is probably the last best thing he does, right? Yeah, and the SNL and all. Yeah. To me more, you could argue, yes, her IMDB is pretty choppy. And this leads to a few good men. This leads to the Vanity Fair cover. This leads to her making $20 million for striptease. This leads to disclosure, G.I. Jane. This sets up a whole decade of her being an A-plus Lister. So I think you could make the case. This might have been Apex Mountain. It all, it paves away for everything that's about to happen. Yeah, I was going to argue that the Vanity Fair cover is actually Apex Mountain if we're allowed to have non-movie points as Apex Mountain. I accept the argument.

Okay. Whoopi Goldberg. I would say no, because she's sister act was like a real franchise that made lots of money. I think Sister Act has to be here, Apex. Yeah, I was going to say 92 is Sister Act and the player. She's in both. So that's my argument for her. Sister Act is really important to young Amanda also.

Tony Goldman, thankfully, no. It would have been sad if this was his apex mountain. I think actually playing the president and scandal is a bigger move from. Apex. Being in gossip blogs for eight years about him and Carrie Washington, he did the side effect of that. Jerry Zucker, I'm going to say yes, because I think he probably owned at least a little bit of this movie

and probably had a lot of money and was capping off airplane, naked gun, all that stuff. Unchained melody, absolutely. If you go to hell and shadows come out of the floor and drag you down, I think that was the apex of that premise. Do you think it's the apex of going to hell? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I think so. It's up there.

That's pretty good. What's a better depiction of going to hell in a movie than this movie? Well, I have a probably unanswerable question, but we could get into this now if you would like to. But it is a pretty binary view of the afterlife. Like, what happens if you're just like an okay person? Like, what do you just get trapped in purgatory forever until you like, kind of moved into one direction or another? Like, because there's either the shadow demons or there's the light beam.

And Sam runs away from the light, which I guess is because he has unfinished business. But like, what do you do if you're just like Lyle Ferguson at the bank? You think there's like a G-League for heaven? Evan. Maybe. You know, like a AAA, AAA heaven. So there's that guy in the hospital that they watch. Well, there are two guys at the hospital. There's the old guy who's explaining the rules of the afterlife to Patrick Spasey. And then there's another person who's on the operating table and the light comes out and they watch him die. And it seems like he gets to go to heaven. But you don't see that person walking around the hospital.

It seems like it's an immediate departure straight to the light. So I'm wondering whether there's any choice involved in the decision that you can negotiate with the light, but you can't negotiate with the gremlins. How about that? Isn't the premise that everyone goes to heaven unless they screw it up? It's definitely only like murderers who deal with the gremlins in this movie. Like people who have had a hand and someone else is dying, right? Sure. Yeah.

So that scans to me. Okay. So like, you know, going to jail for forgery, you probably still get to go to heaven, but maybe it's G-League heaven. Yeah, I think you just have to do some good deeds either in this life or the purgatory afterlife. Yeah, got to move some pennies around.

All right, I have some picking nits. This is a good movie to nitpick. Let's start here. Was this really the best way for Carl to get the passwords from Sam to stage a street crime? with Willie the scumback I don't even know

how he met Willie or how he knows it but this is the best solution I know how he met Willie I know how he met Willie Oh yeah I got you In the same way that

No you know like You get to the edge of like really hot and heavy sex After the pottery scene in the beginning But you don't actually see any of the The deeds being done Carl is coked out of his mind in this movie We just they don't ever

explicitly say that, but he is like a sweaty guy who openly is fawning over a Maserati or a Ferrari Testerosa on the street. He's in deep to the mob and drug dealers. And he is like concocting these elaborate plans with Willie to like steal the pin number. Here's the thing. They're not elaborate plans. The whole plan from the stealing the numbers to doing all of the transactions on his work computer and work phones is the worst. possible heist. Of course he's going to get caught. He's just in the middle of the office. His office doesn't even have a door. No, he's just like, hey, could someone else check their computer and see whether I can do the scam on your computer because my computer is not working? Like, sir,

use a pay phone. But the best part about it is he's learning from the worst because the mafia lawyer who he calls is like, oh, that's great, Carl. Here's the Swiss Bank account number. Here's the Cayman Islands number. And, yeah, it's really appreciated. And he's just like, well, you tell Mr. G. and Kana, no more, there will be no more delays. He's like, yeah, I'll definitely do that. It's like, if anybody's listening, I'm the lawyer for this guy.

Here are the bank accounts. It Swayze suspects nothing. He's like the dumbest boss ever. Yeah. He's like, wow, there's four million extra dollars this guy. I can't figure out. I keep running numbers. One day after I gave you my PIN number.

Yeah. And Carl is in the doorway, like basically snorting lines off the doorknob. Oh, that's weird. Hey, where are you going tonight? Got an address? It's Swayze, like suspects that. Swayze is just like, adios. All right, that's nitpick one.

Knitpick two. So Willie kills Patrick Swayze. He figured Demi Moore is at the police office. What did the assailant look like? There's a police sketch of him, all that stuff. Two weeks later, he's just breaking into her house to try to get the past. words again. I'm guessing Willie's like, I'm out, didn't mean to kill

Swayze, I'm out of this, get somebody else, or even if he, even if he's still involved, maybe doesn't want to be back at the scene of the crime's wife at her apartment. I don't know.

I don't know where you guys stand on that. They're not, they're not criminal masterminds. And at the end of all this, when Carl goes back to the to Willie's apartment to be like, you've got to do this. It's for $80,000. That's his cut, which I was just like, come on, man. Even in 1990, you got to be, you got to do more than $80,000 for the two of you to commit

these level of crimes. Come on, Willie Lopez. To me more, wouldn't she have more questions for Whoopi Goldberg? Who's there with Sam? It's like, oh, it's my dead husband. He's back. I have this proxy. I can just ask him stuff.

I feel like I would have two hours of questions. What have you been doing? What are your clothes? Where do you live? Have you been watching me? When did you officially die? I don't understand. Are you seeing anyone in the afterlife?

Are we still exclusive? What else is going on? Can we leverage this? Can I date now that you're gone? Am I allowed to move on with my life? How long do I have to mourn you? She's just kind of blankface. She has no questions at all.

I would have had just, I would have written down 50 questions. All right. Here's question 49. Boom. Right. But, but Bill, that's also because you believe that this is how it really works in the afterlife. I know, you just have the questions ready. You know, De Me Moore is like trying to sort some things out before she jumps to the questions. Not everyone is prepared as, as prepared as you are. I've already, I've already written the questions. I'm just waiting to ask them to somebody. So Sam can touch Willie Lopez. He can move. pennies. After training, yeah. He can kick soda cans across.

He shoves Willie Lopez repeatedly. He uses his spiritual or whatever. But can't touch Demi Moore. Can't, like, give her a little finger touch on the shoulder. Little finger on the cheek, maybe. Can't smooch her. Well, I'll tell you why. At least in the way that the subway man teaches Sam how he's able to make physical contact

with things. is that it has to come from a place of like anger and and like, you know, all his, all his, like, pain. So he doesn't feel pain towards Molly, you know. Oh, so he can't touch her that way. That makes sense. Yeah. I'm glad we, I'm glad we litigated this. This next question is really important. Are we sure Carl would go to hell for what he did?

Did he mean? He didn't mean to kill Sam. It was just a robbery. He's trying to get some passwords. Didn't ask the guy to kill Sam. Didn't commit a murder himself. Like, if there's a hell counsel. Yeah, I was going to ask who's making a decision.

Yeah, I think he has a good argument for like, hey, man, I was just trying to get some passwords and make some money. I mean, hell seems really strong for him. Yeah. I mean, they never really reveal like a greater motivation for Carl to be what he's like other than outright greed. You know, it's because he just wants a Ferrari to do an eight ball in. It's not because he's like, oh, I just really want to give all my money to mother. Teresa. It's like, no, he's just a scumbag. If Swayze had pushed Willie Lopez and he had gone in front of a car and died, is that

enough to make Swayze go to hell? Or does, is Swayze immune from all hell possibilities once he's in the purgatory? I mean, you're the, you're the one with the greater understanding of how this works, Bill. I thought, I thought you'd be more helpful. No, I think it's a good question. Do you think that there is some sort of higher being? And do you, like, whether it's a council or a single person making these decisions? I don't know. And heaven can wait. There was.

Okay. Are we in the extended? They had like James Mason and Buck Henry. Yeah. That's another one that I think handled heaven really well. And defending your life, they have like a whole like legal system. Can you be demoted from heaven or purgatory is a good question? Yeah.

Your behavior in purgatory is unseemly. Could you, could that be it? And, you know, like, is part of that a, uh, uh, a sort of effect of being in purgatory in New York City where you can get into more trouble, whereas like if you were just in purgatory in the woods, like what could you really do wrong, right? It does seem like you're only allowed at a certain amount of time because at the ending, you remember, Odomay says to Sam, like, they're waiting for you.

And it's like once he's sorted out Molly's situation and made sure she's no longer in danger, then like, that's it. His time is up and it's time to say goodbye. So I think it is ultimately not up to the person. So maybe there is a higher counsel deciding. It's like, Sam, it's your time. And we know this because there's some really bad CGI going on right now, which means it's time for you to go to heaven.

Any other nitpicks before we move on? Okay. Next category is, could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? I actually wouldn't be against it if they modernized it with it was Sam. and Molly's kid. Turns out Molly was five months pregnant during this whole thing. Had a kid and then

Demi Moore gets to be in the movie. It would be great to see her again. I don't know. I'm not against it. I hope it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be horrified. The Carl Twist has to come mid-season then.

You have to go four or five episodes thinking, Carl seems like a good guy. I wonder if Molly should get together with Carl, Carl, Carl, Carl, Carl, and then the hammer drops. It has to be a twist. I think you also got to have Sam dealing with a few more people.

Like it's on earth. It's not just Molly who he's visiting and taking care of. Like he's got to kind of do the whole tour and you have to explore like the Gremlin universe a bit more. But also possibly you could upgrade the Gremlin universe. So that would be a win for everybody. Maybe that there's a third season where he starts working for Adrian Will Gerowski breaking NBA scoops.

That's right. He's just inside the bubble. He's in the room as a ghost hearing conversations. That's right. Woj and the bubble. Probably in answerable questions. I have two. One of which we covered already is this what really happens when you go to hell.

The other one is this. And you guys don't have to tell me what it is. You just have to say if you went through the thought exercise of this, if you were dead, but you were trying to communicate to your spouse, the three of us are married. Are there the three things you could tell the spouse through the proxy that the spouse would immediately know it's you? Yeah, 500 things.

Okay. Yeah. Because I, my wife and I went through this and some of the things we would say to each other to know it was us and we were pretty confident we would know. Yeah. I think there are plenty of things I could say, but whether or not my spouse would believe it is another conversation. Do you think he would just be disbelieving the whole time?

that would be my concern is of that he would just be like this is i need to move on i need to this is not real i'm not going to you're telling me that if a psychic showed up at your husband husband's doorstep and was like here are a dozen things that only amanda would know about you he would be like i just need to move on i mean that's my concern i think that's probably the animating concern of our marriage is just i mean i'm going to show up I'm going to have a 12-page document that the psychic will read. And he'll be like, no, no, no, this is the real world. And so I need to start, you know, moving ahead.

But there are things that I think would work if it were flipped. And so a psychic came to me. There were a lot of things that could be said that I would believe. How about that? Okay. My issue is my wife would be waiting for me to come back. She'd be waiting for the psychic to show up and would kind of be talking yourself into it, no matter how ridiculous it is.

So I feel like somebody could dupe her pretty easily. I have a couple of unanswerable questions. Number one is, is this movie different if Sam gets killed in any other outfit that he's wearing? Like, he can't change clothes, and he gets killed wearing his Macbeth going to the theater outfit. Yeah. But is Maroon Oxford. What's this movie like if he's wearing the Hawaiian shirt tucked into jeans that he wears when he's, when he's rescuing the statue from hanging outside of the window.

And is it like funnier? Is it more of like a romp or what? Because like he's basically in this puffy tucked in silk shirt, the entire movie. So that was a big one. And then the other one, I don't even know if this is unanswerable. And I think we can really get into this is how long after Molly witnesses the love of her life ascending into heaven. does she wait before she starts dating again? Because Molly, a very attractive homeowner.

She's got a lot going for a great artist. We haven't even talked about her art. But she is like a pretty dynamite lady. So, you know, like I just want to know, very, very loyal. That's right. So I wonder what happens with that. I do. Sam did kind of, they did kiss.

Yeah. that was a little soon. I know he spoke coffee on himself. Yeah. Not Sam, Carl. Carl did put one on her. Yeah.

It's true. It's pretty early. That whole scene, by the time that he's just coked out and shirtless in her apartment at 11. Quote, spilling coffee. Right.

She's confused. I think you can chalk it up to grief. And then she does correct it pretty quickly. So, and I think it is pretty clear that she's not interested in Carl. I feel like you're supposed to understand the, you know, the nice part of this movie without like ascribing too much meaning to what's a pretty sentimental and ridiculous movie. But in a lot of ways, it's about like saying goodbye, right? And literally and finding yourself in a place where you're

able to say goodbye. And the actual last word is her saying by, which you're supposed to understand as like her being able to move on, which is good, part of the healing process. So after she says goodbye, I think you got to assume maybe she's ready. She's healed. It's the next phase in the process. So she's got that lovely apartment. She's got some openings. You know, maybe she's ready to move on. So maybe not that long afterwards. Yeah, she moved on. She started dating like Jeff Hostetler. Like famous, more famous athletes, something like that. Who won the movie? God, this is really, really hard. Really hard. I think a case can be made for each of the three leads. Pretty strong case. I think that's true. I mean, my instinct is whoopey. That's mine too.

Because, I mean, number one, she wins the Oscar, but the movie really doesn't work without her. And she is really memorable. And I think you could probably, well, I guess you couldn't really have it without Swayze or Dimmie either. So that. that argument doesn't work. But it's the biggest performance and the most memorable performance. I vote for Swayzee because I think it cements this whole era for him. I think he's the only male actor from that era who could have made this movie as successful as it was. Now, you could say the same for her. But ultimately, this is a Swayze Demy Moore movie and Whoopies, the wildcard who adds a ton to it.

but there's so many actors that you could take from the late 80s, early 90s and put them in the Swayze apart. And I read 20 of the names. None of those names are people out. Like, even if it's Kevin Bacon, who we all really like, I just don't think Ghost is Ghost with Kevin Bacon. Yeah, it's same. Kevin Klein, I was thinking that was an interesting choice because he is able to,

he's done some pretty quirky, kind of not in this vein in terms of this sincere, but he is like definitely a very like vulnerable actor, but it's just not the same movie. Right. There's a physicality you need from Swayze that pushes it over the top. Kevin Klein's a good one, though, because he kind of does this in Dave to some degree. Same kind of sweet character that you're just kind of rooting for. But I'm going with Swayze, but this could be a split. We could say Swayze and I'm going to go whoopee, yeah.

Yeah, I think I go whoopee too. Chris, when those fucking shadows come for you, just remember I told you. That's what I'll do. I'll just be like, SG! You told me. You do realize that by the very terms that you've laid out, that means I'm a murderer. No, if you do murder down the road. Thank you.

You know, there's a lot of time left. You just, that kind of never know. All right. That's it for the rewatchable. As Amanda, we can listen to you on Jam session on the Big Picture. Chris, you're still cranking out the watch. Twice a week, baby. You pop on the big picture every once in a while as well.

Ring her NBA show. coming back. Coming back, the NBA might be the only sport left in about a week. This was fun.

Thanks for doing this with me. Don't forget about the Ringer Podcast Network. Check out all of our stuff. Subscribe to this podcast, tell your friends, and we'll see you next time.