The Rewatchables - 'Gone Girl’ With Bill Simmons, Shea Serrano, Mallory Rubin, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: August 13, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Shea Serrano, Mallory Rubin, and Sean Fennessey fake their own deaths to watch ‘Gone Girl’ starring Ben Affleck and Rosamund Pike and directed by David Fincher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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because of the unforgettable creaminess hours later will be telling everyone with an earshot just how good it was. Try something new. Try unforgettable creamy Heinz mayonnaise. and the new Heinz mashups, mayo chip, mayo queue, mayo must, and cranch. Coming up, what are you thinking? How are we feeling? What have we done to each other? What will we do?

Gone girl, coming up next. Everyone is talking about the number one movie in the world. You're probably the most hated man in America right now. You're killing your wife. You bumped up Amy's life insurance to $1.2 million. Because she told me to. Ever took her, is bound to bring her back. Whatever they found, I think it's safe to assume

but it's very bad. I thought there might be another side of this story. It's just got very exciting. You're framing me for her murder. Gone girl. Only in theaters.

All right, Chase Serranos here, Malley Rubin, shot fantasy. This was the last great fincher movie. It's actually a truth. Will it be the final fincher movie as a question? Is that possible?

No, it won't be. Here's the run. 07 to 14, Zodiac, Ben Button. I don't call on Benjamin. I call him Ben. Ben Button. Social Network, Dragon Tattoo, Gone Girl.

Ripped those off in eight years. What happens? Why doesn't he make movies anymore, Sean? Because he took the money from Netflix and helped launch House of Cards, which then changed the future of entertainment forever, basically. And now he's making another show with Netflix called Mind Hunter. He does have a movie coming up soon, but this is perhaps his last theatrical film release, which is sad to say because he is an absolute master of fucked up movies. His work has inspired The Take Hunter.

series at the ringer. What more could anyone ask for? Yeah, that is true. We have that at least. Shea, this is one of your favorite villains. Yes. You did a villains's podcast on your podcast villains. Now we're doing a rewatchable's podcast. All about Amy done. We're treading the same territory, kind of sort of. We didn't do 20 of them. It's fine. I don't care. You do the thing about the, you invented that championship belt thing. You pass it along from best to best to best. Yeah. Amy still has the title. She got it from Heath Ledger Joker. She's still holding on to it. Oh, wow. Fantastic. You think Joking Phoenix? Watkins. Phoenix, Jo Kim Phoenix,

Joaquin Phoenix? Why can't I speak? You think Joaquin Phoenix is going to take it? No, I don't think so. For the new Joker movie? Maybe he's the hero of that movie. We don't know yet. Definitely not the hero. You never know. So you think Amy Dunn has had the championship belt of best villain for five years now? I think so. Do you agree with that, Mallory?

Who else is there? You know, I'd make the case for Gellert Grindivald, but I doubt I'd get support from anyone here with me today. Absolutely not. Under no circumstances. Is that a rapper? Who is it? Yeah, you're not familiar with his albums? No.

So Fincher said he wanted to do this movie, obviously based on the 2012 book. He said what he was most interested in was the idea of narcissism as a way to hold two people together and the notion of how we project the best version of ourselves, not only to seduce someone we imagine to be perfect for us, but also to have it fit into our own perfect narcissistic projection. Your thoughts, Mallory? Narcissism is a very real factor in our everyday lives. And I think that one of the things that I love about this film that I loved about the book so much, I read the book before seeing the movie, and that makes it such a rewarding rewatch,

is that certainly the twist, the plot, the actual mechanics of the story as they unfold are thrilling and scintillating and make for a rewarding experience. But the reason it's so rewarding time after time is because it's ultimately a story about human nature. And that never gets old. Sean? I'll uncork my theory about it right now. It's certainly about narcissism, but I think it's much more about Ben Affleck's narcissism as a public person. And the movie is basically one long thesis about Ben Affleck's fame in a very discreet way. You know, they like me, they love me, they don't trust me, they hate me, they love me again. I mean,

that is really the arc of Ben Affleck's career. And Fincher, who understands stardom, as well as anyone knows exactly what he's doing by putting somebody like Ben Affleck in a movie like this. And so, you know, who's more narcissistic than a movie star? Here it would be my counter to that, which I think is a great theory. I think John Hamm was supposed to be the lead of this movie. He was talked about for sure. And I don't want to do the casting what ifs this early,

but I think to me it's the most fascinating thing about this movie. John Hamm, that story's true. He was going to be in this movie, and then Mad Men, Matthew Weiner would not let him out. And it would have been, they would have to juggle, which they do with TV shows from time to time, where you film the TV show, and then you run off and you get bank out, little weekend, stuff like that. And it was the last season of Mad Men, and Matthew Weiner was like, no.

So then they ended up with Affleck. He wouldn't let him out. He was in contract to finish the last season of Mad Men. But what happens a lot of times with especially successful TV shows is they try to accommodate. Like on the office, Ed Helms, filmed the hangover as he filmed the office, and was like filming the hangover at night, all this stuff, and they made it happen, jets, all that. So this movie with John Hamm is really, really fascinating.

What If, you could argue it would have ignited John Ham's career because it's such a great role, and he would have been really good. It would have been basically Don Draper and a bad marriage? I don't think he could have done this. Would John Hamm have done the side dick? It's the only question that matters. We need a wider lens, I think. The only question that matters.

So you know, you're down on John Ham, him in this. Yeah, for this role. Why? You, I think you need, you need to have, like, an innate likeability about you for this role to work. John Hamm gets in it. Nobody ever just liked Don Draper.

Everybody thought Don Draper was cool. Nobody was like, this seems like, he seems like he would send me a birthday card. You didn't like John Ham in the town? We are a national organization. No, I love him in the town. No, I love him in a baby driver. But for this particular role, it doesn't seem like he possesses the right skill set for this thing.

I would argue the exact opposite is true. You always argue the exact opposite. Whatever I say, you just come in the other direction. I think that you're supposed to think that you should like him. Like rationally, the things about him are inherently likable traits, but you find something about him repellent. And I think John Hamm could swing that. I'm going the other way.

Just like you could swing something else in the shower scene. Am I right? He literally swinging. This is already out of control. We're seven minutes in. We're seven minutes in. And we've got dick swinging everywhere. I think you just have to have a relationship with the actor.

And the relationship that we have with John Ham is a relationship with Don Draper. It's not with John Ham. And the relationship that we have with Affleck is Affleck, the public person. Would it have been a good movie with John Ham? Sure. Would it have transcended whatever David Fincher's like psychological mumbo-jumbo explanation about what the movie is? Of course. All movies are definable by us.

They're not definable by the people who make them. So, you know, there's a lot of things that this movie is about. It wants to be about marriage. Sometimes it succeeds. Sometimes it doesn't. It wants to be about the tenuous relationship between what women say that they want and what they actually want. And likewise with men, it has a lot to do with movie stardom and kind of like in the media and putting yourself forward. Like all of these, the movies about all of those things.

So I don't think you can just boil it down to our only all just narcissists and the way that we project ourselves on in the world is the most meaningful thing we can say about this. Like it's bigger than that. I agree. And I actually think, I think Ham would have been good. But I love that Affleck did this at this point. at this point of his career because he has now completed the comeback and it's hit a point where he's just won all the Oscars for Argo. And everybody's like, Affleck.

And then this turned out to be the perfect movie for him and the perfect kind of year. And he's during the movie, he's filming or starting to get ready for Batman. So his body's actually changing. He's big. During the movie. But after this movie, you're like, wow, Ben Affleck. Great movie star. King of the fucking hell.

He's back. And this is a movie star part, and he's basically playing Ben Affleck. I mean, there's the one part where he's playing video games, and he's kind of like sad Ben Affleck. But for the most part, it's a charisma part. And, you know, you have to still be with him. Even after you find out he's cheating with Emily the Model. What's her last name?

Radikowski. Radikowski. Andy. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing, too, is that Ben Affleck, we understand to be a big star who's been around for 25 years. This is the fourth highest-grossing movie he's ever made and the other movies are basically just franchise movies.

Yeah. And that says a lot. This is a literary adaptation. It's a crime thriller. It's really perverse. I mean, it's honestly one of the most fucked up Hollywood movies ever made in terms of the themes, the content, the way that the story is told. The way it looks.

It's in that conversation. It is really in that conversation. So it's kind of just an amazing achievement for the director and Gillian Flynn for sure, who wrote the book and then adapted the book in a way that is really interesting and very different from the book that she wrote? Yeah, ish. I mean, just the general structure of the book is so different from the way that the story is told. Structurally, it's similar, but then a lot of the plot specifics are different.

So, like, ultimately, the book, it's divided into three parts, right? It's much like the movie. You have the part that is the Nick's story, and you're only understanding Amy through diary entries and through memories. Then you have the huge reveal, the same opening line in the movie and in the book. And then part three is the return. you're in their heads though. Right.

So by definition, you have an understanding of their motives that you cannot have in the movie. And I think actually, while in general I'm a, the book is better

than the movie person, I think you can make a pretty compelling case that part of what makes the movie so totally gripping is that you do not know ever what the motive really is.

And so you're left to debate and try to deduce on your own. And then that brings you into that fucked up web that they've woven with each other. Do you like Ben Affleck? I love Ben Affleck. Where does this rank top four Ben Affleck performances?

It goes the town, Gone Girl, Armageddon. Gone Girl, too. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, he's great. I have a top four. I came out of this movie thinking like Ben Affleck is back for good. Nothing can stop this. Yeah, for sure. And then, yeah, I don't feel like the wheels are completely off,

but the car is definitely broken down the highway a couple times. You have a great theory about his, where he was at at this stage and his decision to take on Batman. I wrote about it. And he told me I was right. I always thought that that was right too. He went for the 19 and O Pat season basically.

Yeah. And he was like, my comeback's going unbelievably well. Now I'm going to be Batman. Fuck everybody. And he blew out his Achilles in week one, unfortunately. Like he just didn't. Like, he just, that was a mistake. And it derailed, it derailed like a significantly interesting part of his career to

make a bunch of movies that are bad. I mean, those movies are just not good. Yeah, what was the one the 2016 movie? Live by Night. Live by Night. Yeah, well, so that was a movie that he was going to make before doing Gone Girl, put it on the shelf so he could do Gone Girl, which is a good thing. And Livonite has kind of interesting stuff in it, but is a little bit messy. And then everything else that's around it, Justice League and Suicide Squad and Batman versus Superman and all that stuff really doesn't work. And Triple Frontier in the Account, and I like, I kind of like that as like Batman? I like the... I like The Batman? No. Well, I don't think he's a bad Batman.

I just think those are bad movies. Yeah. It's not that he's a bad bad bad man. He just doesn't appreciate the art of the movies. Okay. Listen, part of this is when you have kids, you get older, you want to impress your kids. If I was a movie actor, whatever Ben Simmons liked, that would be like, I'm going to be the star of that movie. My son's going to be really impressed because that's what it becomes about.

So I think these guys all get sucked into that. I think one of the things that makes Affleck so unique and, in my opinion, special is that he could be the guy from the town and the guy from Gone Girl. I think it's hard to be action guy, but then also guy and this really fucked up, erotic thriller, husband, where I shouldn't be rooting for him, but I am. Only a handful of people have been able to do it. Tom Cruise, Paul Newman. It's like a very short list.

But do you think Tom Cruise could have been in this? Oh, I think Tom Cruise, as Nick Dunn is amazing. Really? Yeah, he's a little short. There's something about the bulkiness of Affleck. Tom Cruise doesn't work. Do you think Clooney could have been in this? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, but 15 years ago. Yes. I don't think Cruz works because this is something we talked about on the villains pot a lot, but one thing about Nick is whether you're rooting for him or not, whether you like him or not, you have to be able to convince yourself that he can keep up with Amy. Yeah.

You have to do. Like that is essential to buying into their dynamic. And I don't know that you would believe that Tom Cruise was that savvy. No shade of Tom Cruise. I think in addition to that, you need somebody in this role who, y'all mentioned, Like he's already a bigger guy. Even when you see him on the poster, he's like got his back turned and these wide shoulders. You need to see that person rolled over and have his belly exposed.

And it needs to be like, feel like a substantial thing. Tom Cruise is 4 foot 11. It's not going to work. George Clooney's a little too skinny. Like you need that mass. You need for him, you need to be surprised that he's so vulnerable and like so just exposed at this moment. And would have played video games. I can't see Tom Cruise like sitting down for a video game.

You don't think Brad Pitt would have been a bang? Battlefield 3 guy? No, I don't. The other thing Fincher said was that he had a chance to create a story where he could have a movie that was a mystery, then could hand the baton off to the absurdist thriller, and then hand the baton off and become a satire. And he'd never seen that before he wanted to give it a shot. And then he says it was different than what we actually shot. But that was why he took the movie.

I was like, oh, this is interesting. This is three different movies in one movie. But then now it happened. He gets close on all of those things, though. Yeah. I think a lot of the criticism in the movie was that he didn't land the satire, that it got too ridiculous. And I never agreed with that. I disagree with virtually every review written about this movie, including Wesley Morris, who obviously, you know, we adore him.

But I never understood what people were talking about. So the biggest, most interesting, just retrospective reading about it is how he did Amy, how he landed on Rosamund Pike. Reese Witherspoon, I'm going to do some half-ass internet research now. Witherspoon obtains the film rights, decides to produce and play Amy, meets Fincher. I'm not sure what happens in the meeting, but Fincher's like,

let's get somebody else. And she, normally the actor would be like, you're out, I'm going to play Amy, but somehow he, Jedi Mindracted her and giving up Amy. Reese Witherspoon is Amy? No. Not, not.

Reese Spoon riding Neil Patrick Harris and covered in blood. I just don't see it. No. I'd be interested in seeing that. She's not withholding enough, I think, for the part. She's too earnest. I agree. Open about her. And you always know what she's thinking.

You don't always know what Amy's thinking. I was at a lunch yesterday with a friend, and we were talking about this exact thing. And I think the – I don't think she can go dead-eyed enough. You need for everything to just be gone. Yeah. Reel-A-spoon just a little too likable. Yeah. These names actually seem, sometimes I never know what to believe.

I'm doing casting woodifs now just because it's important for this. They have Charlize, Natalie Portman, who I think... I think both of those would have been interesting. Charlize... Charlize would have been good. Put Charlize in anything. Do we have too much baggage with her as an actress where now I have baggage with both actors? I think that helps Rosamond Pike for sure.

It really helps it. Portman, Emily Blunt, who I think at that point we didn't know enough about it. She would have been good. Runei Mara, who he had just worked with. Olivia Wilde, who hadn't really done a ton at that point. The weirdest one is Julianne Huff, the Dancing with the Stars Lady, who apparently got far down the road.

She made a bid at a serious acting career, and it didn't really ever take off. So Fincher said, I thought this is right in Sean's Wheelhouse. He wanted an actress with a Faye Dunaway type of persona, and he said, I wanted Faye Dunaway in Chinatown where you think this person has experienced avenues of pain,

no one can articulate. So he settled on Rosamine Pike. He liked that she was 35, but you didn't know if she was, she was 29 or 40. You just couldn't tell. Like that she was an only child for some reason. Sure. Because he felt like Amy was an only child. And then he said, I've seen her in four or five different movies over 10 years,

never got a beat on her, never got a sense of who she was. I pride myself on being able to watch actors and sort of know instinctively what their utility belt is. and I don't have that with Rosamond. I don't know what she was building off of. There was an opacity there. Opacity. Opacity. There was an opacity there, and it was interesting.

So basically he's like, I saw her in five movies. I couldn't figure her out. She was perfect. I don't know how many directors would have seen that. I think that the natural move would have just been to get Charlize and call it a day.

I'd be like, I have Charlize and Ben Affleck, we're good. Let's go. I mean, he's always had an eye for unproven on the cusp town. You know, Pitt in Seven and Eisenberg and Rennie Maren, the Social Network. And, you know, he cast early on, Mercial Ali and Benjamin Button. I mean, he's always had a phenomenal eye for interesting people.

Taraji Henson, even, who just did not have a big career before that movie. He senses what people will receive about someone really well. And, like, the things that we expect from them and then the things that they give us when they get on screen. So, I mean, she's an interesting. person, I mean, I thought her career was going to go to a different place after this movie. Me too. She was nominated for an Oscar. She and I liked her in Jack Reacher.

Yes. I like it. I like her in everything. That's kind of an embarrassing part, though. It is, but it was two years before this movie. Yeah, yeah. Shea, do you need, does baggage with a real celebrity hurt with a part like this? Because I think one of the reasons I like this movie is I didn't really have any baggage with her,

other than I remembered her in Jack Reacher. I was figuring her out as an actress as I'm watching the movie. Yeah, with a part. like this where you need to be like totally confused about a person and like I don't understand what's going on. Yes. It's the opposite with the Ben Affleck character. You need to root for this person

implicitly. But with her with this role, yeah, you need somebody you've never seen before. It just makes it scarier. I feel like the biggest role that she had had to that point was Pride and Prejudice, right? That's right. Jane Bennett. And guess guess what book they find in the bookshop where they fuck? Right and prejudice. Is that

in the book? I think so, but I I can't remember. Because if it's not, and that's a coy nod to her role as Jane Bennett in Proud and Prejudice, that's interesting. And, you know, that's Jane Bennett also, her portrayal of Jane Bennett is like very closed off, very shaded. You don't really know what her intentions are. She's obviously quite beautiful, but she doesn't, she's not leaping out at you in the same way that through the first hour of this movie, you're like, what is, who is Amy? Who is this person?

Listen, Jack Reacher is fucking awesome. That's how you want, but that was her best. Do you remember the scene in Jack Reacher when Cruz comes out of the shower, no shirt on? and and uh yeah and rossman pike is there waiting for him and she's like salivating over yeah like new tom cruise there were there were laughs in the theater during it it's a good unificial comedy that's why he couldn't have been the gone girl one they had like no sexual chemistry that's true so she said she drew inspiration from Nicole Kidman and to die for Sharon stone and basic instinct the greatest performance of all time

greatest performance the last hundred years and then she said I thought this was It's fascinating. She studied Carolyn Bessette Kennedy. So smart. To figure out how to kind of seem aloof and mysterious, but also like elegant. Yeah, Patricia Beauty. That got me on this whole Google deep dive on Carolyn Bessette Kennedy and just pictures of her. I was like, oh, this totally makes sense.

Yeah, smart. I have no idea who that is. JFK Jr's wife. I still don't know. Okay. But all right. Other stuff. This was Affleck's second Amy.

movie? That's right. She's Amy. Personal fave. Yeah. Not aging well. That. Top 10 not aging well from the 90s movie.

Big, big fan, though. At the time, I was like, wow. I have a new number one for not aging well. The crush with Alicia Silverstone. Yeah, that's tough. It's on Amazon. She's 14 and somebody moves in and she's... Carrie always.

They have a weird kind of sexual chemistry and then she starts... Then he punch her? He punches her in that one, right? That is now. It's not what you want. So Fincher said he explained the character to Ben. The character is someone who gets his feet run over by a steamroller, gets his ankles run over,

then gets his shins run over, his knees, his pelvis, lower back. The funny thing is that he had already been through it already. He knows what it's like to be tossed by the 35-foot waves of public perception, and he has a great wit about it. The symbol of you becomes more important than your actual participation. Afflex really talked intelligently about this over the years. Like he would be a great three-hour process. podcast about what happens.

What are you waiting for? Well, he's got to want to do it. When people just see the Us Weekly stars just like us version of you versus the actual human being who's at your daughter's soccer game and, you know, the one of his diarrhea on a Thursday night. Like he's the human being version versus like the perception of the person. Yeah. And the entire role that the media plays in the story, it's just like they're deployed to be not

only just the voyors, but like to make you think about the cost of tragedy porn, right? They're vampires. They're sucking up every single drop of the blood that Amy spilled herself and that anybody has ever spilled. And, you know, there's that nugget out there that Fincher wanted Affleck because of the way he smiles in pictures. And that moment, obviously, in the film, when he's standing next to Amy's missing poster and then later, you know, the selfie was shot, like, he just can't help himself. He has to try to appease. He has to. and then he has that speech to his mother-in-law about how he was raised to try to be polite.

And like, that's obviously a microcosm for who that character is and who both of those people are obviously deployed in very different ways and ultimately wielded his weapons against each other. But the film, more than I agree with you, it's not really narcissism, but it is about identity and control. And there are two really scary things in life, right? One is what happens when you let somebody else see who you are? Yeah.

Right? How can they then use that against you? And then the other half of that is facing the fact that you can maybe never really know another person truly and fully, ever. No matter how well you think you know somebody, there's going to be a moment in your life when you have to reconcile with the fact that they have surprised you and probably disappointed you. And that's ultimately just about not only who you really are, but how you position yourself for other people. And that's why the cool girl speech is such an iconic moment in the film. I'm sure we'll talk about that later. But what do you want other people to think?

And how do you then continue to manipulate that? Like the core of the relationship between Amy and Nick, and we should say, by the way, Amy is an actual psychopath. Like something is mentally wrong with Amy Elliott done. But the disappointing thing for them is not actually that they didn't measure up. to what they each thought the other person would become. It's not about the future. It's about the past.

It's that they weren't actually who they sold each other on being. And that's a bad feeling. It was a bad contract. You left out there's a third horrible thing that can happen to a human being. Getting your throat slit. No. Point two seconds after climaxing? Seeing a scorpion in the bathroom.

No, waiting at the front door for your food delivery order and the guy just doesn't seem trustworthy. and you know what was going on in his car. I would add that. I thought you were going to say someone spitting in your mountain do. Oh, that might be it too. $61 million budget made $369 million worldwide, Sean. Nice.

Fincher's highest grossing film. Also a great IMDB description. You know I love descriptions on cable or whatever. The IMDB for this is, with his wife's disappearance having become the focus of an intense media circus, a man sees the spotlight turned on him when it's suspected that he might not be in a It's great. Good summary. Rosamond Pike, nominated for best actress, which I had forgotten.

You agree with that, Chey? Absolutely. Would you give her the title? I would give her the title this year if they let me. What happened in her, Sean? Is it the English thing? No, no. She's a great actor.

I mean, as we've mentioned many times in the show, there's not enough good parts for women. She's 40 years old, which is a time when Hollywood's, starts making women make the exit and rather than the entrance and she got her big break a little bit later in life. I mean, she's in a good movie last year called a private war, which was about the foreign correspondent Marie Colvin, who was killed a few years ago, who wrote Vanity Fair for years and put her life on the line.

It was a really interesting, thoughtful, deep portrait of this person who lived a complex in our hard life, and it's like a real all-in performance. And if a different company had made the movie, if like Warner Brothers made the movie, it would have been nominated for an Oscar, but it was a small company that made the movie. They couldn't platform it the way that they want to. So she doesn't get the break. And like so many of these things are based on, do you get casting gone girl or not? You know, do you look like Faye Dunaway enough for David Fincher or not?

Well, she also, uh, she was in Beirut, the greatest airplane movie of 2018. Did you see Beirut? I did not. I saw Hot-Ures. Chris Ryan's, Babe. Oh, Bayruits's a great airplane and Cape movie. Best actress that year. Julianne Moore won for Still Alice.

I disagree. I should. I love Julianne Moore. should have gone to Rosemey. That was in its time award. It was for past performance. Reese Witherspoon was in wild. She was getting that, too, the other ones, whatever.

But, I don't know. Still Alice, she was really good in that movie. I got to say, I don't have a ton of problems with that one. But I think he, I would, I think they're both winners. It's a close game. Yeah, it's a close one. That movie is a tough sit, man. Still Alice?

Yeah, it's not like, oh, Blu-ray with two deleted scenes. It's like I never want to think about this movie again. Fincher had an interesting quote about this, movie and movies in general, which I thought was just funny for a podcast called The Rewatchables. It's like flipping through the channels and suddenly you see your graduation picture. It's not fun. It's horrible. This is him talking about singing his own movies.

It's not that you're not happy, but you can always make something better. I've seen it. But at some point, you just have to throw your hands up. Movies aren't finished. They're abandoned. And you have to make your peace with that. And then he confessed that anytime. he rewatches a movie of his, he always thinks about how he could have gotten rid of two minutes there, 90 seconds here, and it just goes nuts.

So, as you guys know, I worship David Fincher. There's a couple of reasons why. One, there's this very famous moment in an interview from the girl with the dragon tattoo featurette in which somebody asks him, like, why do you make movies? And he's like, well, all people are perverts. And I think it's important that we identify that and that we put that on screen. and so that's like my mission. And it's something that he does in every single movie

if you look at it. And the other thing is that he's just a crazy control freak. And as a crazy control freak, I completely understand what he's talking about, but he obviously is also driving people to greatness,

but also challenging them in a way that sometimes breaks people. Like Jake Gyllenhaal was broken by Zodiac. Ben Affleck was not broken by this movie. In fact, it was good for him to be challenged and do a part like this. But you can make the case that Ben Affleck isn't the character

that really needed to rise to that standard. That's the Amy character, you know? True. You think he identifies? Yeah, all of the things that he prizes, the need to control. What is the limit of your own agency, right? And the ability to be the author of your own fate.

That's Amy. Do you think Fincher could break Mallory or no? 80 takes? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think she caves or she just gets competitive. Depends how many bags of Cheetos and, like, giant cheeseburgers are next to me in the past.

I watched her and Jason one time record two lines from a podcast for like 45 minutes. I think she'd be okay. I think she'd make it. The whole thing about the legend of Fincher and the 99 takes and social network and the 80 takes for this. Like 80 takes is just an incredible amount of takes. It would be like if we did this first 20 minutes of this podcast 80 times. I just think I would lose my mind. I wouldn't be able to do it.

I'd be like, you motherfucker. That last take was. But it's not just the 20 minutes. It's the little stuff. You know, it's every insert shot. It's every shot of, you know, the punch and Judy handle that you see in the frame. I mean, think about how many disparate parts going to making a movie like this. He's got hundreds and hundreds of shots in the movie, and he's doing those over and over and over again.

In search of perfection. You know who I bet never let him down? The cat. What a steady presence in the film. Good cat in this movie. Shouts to my dude bleaker. I was worried about who won the movie when we get to that at the end. The cat's going to be in there.

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or download the app to unlock your daily drop. All right, most rewatchable scene. This is interesting. The first hour of this movie is watchable, but it's not like it just kind of heats up from a rewatchability standpoint right around the big turn.

But I really like when Affleck comes home and discovers Amy's missing and calls the police and everything they do where they show the neighbor across the street and just little stuff. Yeah, and just him looking around. And then the cops come. And the lady's a little suspicious because in the, the back of her head, she's like, well, anytime a wife's missing or murdered, it's usually the husband, so she's kind of, they're just kind of tiptoeing around. I just like everything

about the meticulousness of that scene. And I came home to this. Now, I don't panic easily, but it's weird, right? Mind if we look around? Please. How long you two have been here? Yeah, I love it too. I mean, it makes it seem like this movie's going to be a who-done-it. and it's not really a whodunit. But it sets you up for feeling like, okay, what actually happened here? We don't know. And if you haven't read the book,

I imagine that the movie is like pretty shocking as the reveals come. So, yeah, I hadn't read the book and I had, and I deliberately avoided all the spoilers and all that, so I was shocked. Yeah. I think you also have to, with that scene,

you have to kind of instantly believe that Rhonda Boni knows what she's doing. Oh, yeah. Because she's actually like a really central figure in the entire story right down to the end where she's kind of like your life. last life ref for thinking that somebody might continue to. Please, somebody figure this out. And then when even she gives up, it's like a pretty devastating feeling. So when she right away

starts placing the post-it notes, you know, on the little spatter of blood, the way that she looks at the iron, like what is an iron? And it's just a part of your everyday life. It is a thing in your home. It is by definition an object that you don't think about. And the way that she stops and says, this is plugged in, this is on. It's by a dress that represents romance and the desire to please your partner. Something is up here, like right away. And the two dudes are like, yeah. I love that part. It's great. Shake out of your iron when you leave your house. The investigator will look at that right away. The outdoor Amy rally with the protesters.

That's a fun twist. Just a really good scene with a good twist. And I like how it's filmed. It's all building to that scene where it's really now going to turn for Ben Affleck. And he shoots the wide shot. There's. There's a ton of people. It feels like another bullshit. My wife's out there. I hope I can find her. And then the turn.

I love Casey Wilson as Noel. Yeah. She's great. She's really good. There's the whole reason I started watching Black Monday. I was like, is that? I think that's her. Let me watch that show.

You have a cup of coffee in SNL. Yeah. Casey Wilson is good as the extremely dumb neighbor who is seduced into... Pregnant idiot. Amy's big plan. A lot of good shots in that whole scene, though. You know, the shot where they go to Emily Radikowski, where she mouths the words back at him

while he's saying how much he loves Amy, a shot of Ben Affleck running away from the cameras in slow motion, like an aging, like a lumbering old quarterback, basically, trying to get away from the rush. That whole thing. Everything is so smartly staged. So the next scene is the big,

the next scene I got for rewatchable is the big reveal. I am so much happier now that I'm dead. Which happens at the minute seven mark of the movie, which is a long time. Like one hour and seven minutes. One hour seven minutes in, like, some movies are like just about to get ready to wrap up. Like, we did blood sport for the rewatch of us. 107, it's like Von Doms doing the split on the temple and he's just ready to go,

Kilt Chong Lee. It's a long movie. It is a long movie. I went on IMDB. This is Amy's monologue. That's how long is. It's a lot. I mean, it's like five pages of stuff.

She's narrating it. But significantly shorter than what's in the book. with the whole, that's sort of the cool girl explication, right? It comes in that moment too. But it starts out, I'm so much happier now that I'm dead. And if I don't know the story, I think, oh, so she's dead and she's narrating this

and I hate when movies do that. And then it's like technically missing, soon to be presumed dead gone. Still not sure. And then slowly over the course of this monologue and she starts explaining everything she did. America loves pregnant woman as is so hard to spread your legs.

You know, it's hard to faking. a pregnancy. She goes through the whole thing. Mal, I'm going to let you read this a bold. Just do the whole paragraph. I see them right away. Just do the whole paragraph for us. Just do it. Come on.

My dad listens to these podcasts. Come on. Just read the whole thing because it's the most important paragraph. Mallory, I vote against us. You read what you feel is appropriate, Valerie. You do what you want. It's a free country. You can bleep yourself.

I got it. All right. It's just the bold part? Yeah. The bottom, bold part here at the top. this part. That whole part. So this is after,

well, you skip some of the iconic lines. Keep going. Or throw in this. Because there's, you know, you befriend a local idiot to fake a murder.

I hate that part. I hate that part so much. This is the... She feels bad for the local idiots. I do. I really did. It really just got me. This is the waxing my pussy part

that Bill wants me to read. No, it wasn't just that. It was the whole graph. And for him, I'll admit, I was willing to try. I wax stripped my pussy raw.

I drank canned beer watching Adam Sandler movies. I ate cold pizza and remained to size too. I blew him, semi regularly. I lived in the moment. I was fucking game. I can't say I didn't enjoy some of it. Nick teased out of me things I didn't know existed, a lightness, a humor, an ease. But I made him smarter, sharper. I inspired him to rise to my level. I forged the man of my dreams. We were happy pretending to be other people. We were the happiest couple we knew. And what's the point of being together if you're not the happiest. Were there not salons in New York?

That's my question. That's basically the whole movie in one paragraph. A couple that learned to like the identity of being a couple more than actually being together. Well, okay, I'll take a little bit of issue with that. Okay, go. What's the point of being together if you're not the happiest? How personal to get here.

This is complicated. Well, don't get too personal. I once had a very interesting conversation with my dad when I was about to get married, and he sat me down. And my dad is not the kind of person who would sit you down and give you a speech. But he sat me down and gave me a speech. And the big takeaway from the speech was,

Sean, people change. Don't ever forget that. And I think that Nick changes a lot and in some ways gets worse and becomes a less good partner to Amy. And Amy gets crazier. It's very obvious that she becomes more insane. Now, she's doing things,

we're led to believe she does terrible things to the Skeed Ulrich's character, that she has a history of manipulative behavior. But these two people are changing, and they're growing apart. And it's not just that, like, there's the presumption of happiness. Because I think people that are attracted to each other when they first meet, sparks, you know, they have sex. They start dating. And then they change.

They walk through a sugar cloud together. Yeah. And certainly, like, you can romanticize your memories of what it's like to be with a person. But, like, you guys know, like, you put on a little bit of a performance when you first meet somebody. You're pitching yourself in a slightly different light. You want to be slightly more appealing than you actually are. I don't do that on the rewis. So this is the other key to the movie where she says,

you think I'd let him destroy me and end up happier than ever, no fucking way. He doesn't get to win. Yeah. Grownups work for things. Grownows pay. Grownups suffer consequences. The battle of marriage, Shay. You have the happiest marriage I know.

It's really great. It's really good. I don't know. I'm being serious. It's funny that you love this movie so much when it's like the opposite of a happy marriage. It ends with her covered in blood coming back. It's fun to watch and be like, I'm so glad that's not me right now. That's how I feel.

The next rewatchable scene, I just love Lola Kirk at this movie. I'm just throwing it out there. Incredible. She's the runaway Dionne Warder's a Word winner, unless you want to have the Tyler Perry argument with me. The pool scene with her when they first start, and then she does the memory of Affleck touches. Emily's face and the whole thing and just all of those scenes with her I just love.

So I'm just shouting all those out. Love her. Next one is Nick's interview with Cila Ward's character, who I thought was funny, who was in The Fugitive, which was also a wife burner thing. That's right. But that whole thing where it's like, oh, this is a disaster who's going to give an interview, and then you actually don't know what happened. Then it turns out he does well.

It was a little bit like not showing the bank heist and reservoir dogs, you know, where you, like, cut right to them in the car. And she's like, I can't believe how fucking good you were, you know? And then we see a little bit of it later on. Some later. Yeah. It comes back. Amy's return to Nick's house.

It is amazing. It's an amazing scene. Amazing. We were watching that. Larammy and I were watching that. And again, I had no idea what was happening in this movie. Laramie had already read the book. But I'm just experiencing all this for the first time.

And I see them pull up and she comes stumbling out of the car, still covered in blood. And I was sitting there and it's just like, this motherfucker. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Every four minutes, it was like she was doing something. that I just couldn't believe was happening right now. Great Affleck with the, you bitch, in her ear. And then the last scene leading up to the TV interview, I'm not a quitter. And then their whole mono-a-mono thing, and she does her thing and blah, blah, blah,

and then cut to the twin sister just crying in the kitchen, like, devastated. Yeah, that's a tough moment. This woman's a monster. How do you not get rid of this person? It's just an amazing Carrie Coon performance in this movie. My pick Wait, there are more. My pick, well, I'm going to let you jump in,

but my pick is just Amy returning from that point on. I'm never not watching that movie if this is on and Amy's about to go back to her house. I'm just in for the rest of the movie. So that's my pick. Returning to Nick, not the review. Covered in blood. From that point on, I just love that part of the movie.

I'm just so in. I much prefer the beginning. Okay. That's interesting. What else did you have for rewatchables? I have a few, like, smaller ones from earlier in the film. I really like his first police interview. But when he's like, she's a voracious reader.

You just realize how little he knows about it. Yeah. And I love that like that kind of instant lack of trust that's seeping in with Boney, where you don't know if she has friends. You don't know what she does all day. And you don't know your wife's blood type. And then Gilles, like, you sure y'all are married? Because you have to actually have seeds of doubt.

Like for the first, as you said, hour and seven minutes of the movie, you have to believe that maybe he really did it. You haven't called your wife's parents yet? Things like that. I don't know my wife's blood type. I don't know my wife's blood type. I don't know my own blood type. Yeah, I don't know mine.

Like when they threw that at Affleck, I was like, I just kind of looked in the mirror for a second. I don't know my kids. I don't know. That's a tough one. I don't think that's important. Yeah. But it's all about just making, making him feel ashamed. I can't remember my own social security number at this point.

I'm going to remember somebody's blood type. Come on. I think the press conference is a really good scene, too, because the diaconology. the dichotomy between Nick basically saying four words, totally devoid of anything resembling sincere emotion or affection for this person. And then, of course, the iconic posing, you know, hamming it up, smile. And then the contrast between that energy and vibe and the way that her parents, and we haven't talked about the parents yet in the role they play in the story, but they go

into like stump speech mode. They have all these points they want to hit. And even though her parents are, they have a smaller role in the movie than they do in the book, you have to understand because you do have to have some empathy for her that she was a commodity in her own life. Like her parents sold her childhood. And of course they have this whole list of talking points ready. They're used to turning her into something that other people can digest.

And that does make you sympathetic for her. So I think that that scene is important for understanding both of those relationships. the, I mean, the Desi murder. Yeah. Like, has to be. Has to be in here. You just find it too unpleasant. It's really unpleasant.

I don't like it. I've seen gone. It's the most iconic scene in the movie. It's amazingly staged. Well, that doesn't have to be the most rewatchable. No. I mean, most iconic is there for the most rewatchable. Well, that whole, but that whole sequence where she starts, you know, where she starts

essentially framing him. Right. Yeah. It's so confusing at first and you're trying to figure out what's going on. When she untucks his shirt and then so he's caught on the security cameras, talking it back. Exactly. Yeah, there's just so many little choices there. I don't know. That's a pretty cool scene. I mean, it's obviously grotesque.

It's absolutely well done scene, but I don't know. I have some issues. Yeah, I've seen this movie, I don't know, seven, eight times. All right, like front to back. Let me just watch the whole thing. And still, I watched it this morning again. And when that scene happened, when she slices his throat, I was still like, oh, my God, oh, God. I can't look at this. What's most rewatchable for you? I'm always going to be connected to the reveal scene. Me too.

Okay. If only because, again, I didn't know what was happening. At the beginning of the movie, I was fairly confident that he did kill her. And he was doing a good job of, like, kind of pretending, but not really. And we're going to get the turn that we've seen in 20 other movies where he, like, turns toward the camera. And you see his face go evil. You're like, oh, she's in the basement. Her body's in the basement or whatever.

So to watch that sort of get upended. And then listen to her, explain everything. And you're like, my hands are on my head. She has a great line in there where at the beginning she's like, America loves pregnant women. And then right after that, she calls the, she calls Noelle the pregnant idiot. And I felt like, I was like, do America really love pregnant women? And then she was just called her a pregnant idiot. I was like, how fucking dare you say that?

Then the movie ends with her revealing her pregnancy. Oh, God. The whole thing is very neatly tied. It's beautiful. I think also all the seduction scenes between the two of them at the beginning are really good. They're meat cute at the party. And then his proposal at the Amazing Amy book party. Now, my colleagues tell me that you are not yet married.

Is that correct? I'm not. Isn't the time we fix that? And then the night wasn't so bad anymore. When he sits down and poses as a journalist, all that stuff is really good. And also, like... Poses as a journalist, harsh.

Wow. I mean, he's not a... Writer for a men's magazine. But as a writer for a men's magazine, in the time when this is essentially set, like, there's a lot of accuracy about what's portrayed here. Well, you know, the interesting thing about those scenes, and it comes up in the reveal,

which is also my pick for... most rewatchable scenes, it's just an incredible sequence, is that she references those moments. She says, start with the fairy tale early days. Those are true and they're crucial. And they are crucial because it is, it's not only the foundation for them, it's a foundation for us with them. You do have to buy into believing in their love at all. Otherwise, you're not invested in you don't care. But the thing about that scene, it's not only the shock. And it is like, it's an all-time great twist. The depths that she has gone to, the meticulous steps that she has taken and the pride that she feels, the vindication and the validation,

writing every diary entry with different pens to make it seem like she wrote them over stretches of time, 300 of them. And because you're you, you don't stop there. You need a diary. Minimum 300 entries on the Nick and Amy story. Start with the fairy tale early days. Those are true.

That's a astonishing thing that a person would do. Watching her sit on the floor. of their kitchen, a home that she never wanted to be in, right? A home in his hometown, by his family that she had to go to after they had to leave their brownstone and their money and the fallacy of their life that they thought they opted into together. And she has an IV that she put into her own arm draining her blood and she's reading a book on the floor.

Like, it's just this fascinating thing where you are kind of in awe. You feel a little bad for her because he cheated on her. He is a cheater. but also you're like she's dangerous. This is a dangerous lunatic who is willing to do things that are uncommon. I like that she takes a quick shot at him when she's like clean poorly like he would. I'm like, golly, you just, you know, just going to keep on going. She knows him.

Draining her in blood while you sit in the kitchen and read a book is not even one of the top five weirdest things she did in this movie. And that's fucking weird. It's super weird. I would pay a certain amount of money to have somebody do just a, first part of the movie and it's just a rom-com between those two because they're so good. I think they made that rom-com. It was called He's Just Not That Into You.

I bet that fuck was in it. What stage the best? I like his unshaven video game swoon. Yeah. Because I feel like that might have happened in real life around like 06 for him. That's a very true to life moment for a lot of people. It's good. It's like I'm just bummed out.

My living room's the best and I'm playing video games. What's the laptop for? Laptopping. It's a great moment. The twin sister is great. Carrie Coon, first row ever. That she's good. I actually believe they're related.

Yeah, she's... Yeah, and they're much different in E. I think he's 10 years older than her or something like that. She's great. I mean, she went on to be the star of the leftovers, obviously. I like the first gathering

when the lady takes the selfie with them and then turns on them is just really well done. And I'm sure that's happened to Ben Affleck in real life. Yeah, and that actress, she was on that show episodes. Anybody watch episodes?

She was so great on that show. I don't even know what her name is. She's a really funny actress. I have her coming up in a later category. The Nancy Grace character, Ellen Abbott, that was well done. The detective team of Kim Dickens and Patrick Fuget, almost famous guy. He's back. He's grown up.

William Miller. Nick gives his sister the Mastermind Board Game and then admitted when he was doing press for this movie that he threw it in there as a red herring, no significance at all for his own amusement. Because he thinks it's funny when he's at critic screenings and they're like frantically writing down the Mastermind Board Game. And he's just like, these fucking assholes. I don't believe that for a second. No, I think it's true. That's what he said. I don't, I just think that's, I disagree.

I don't believe that. I think that's, I'm just quoting them. That's intentional. And you had the thing about all the other board games. Yeah. They show three other games on there. They show, I don't even remember what they were. One of them was a Ouija board, though.

That was like the last one. Risk was in there, right? Well, life is there and he has that. Oh, it was let's make a deal. That's why I don't, right, let's make a deal. Let's make a deal is the first one. And that's them making the deal like we're going to be in this partnership together. Then it was another game.

And then the last one was a Ouija board. And that's like her talking to him from the dead. It was all on purpose. The reason I don't believe it is because they actually do like make a direct reference in the movie. Not to Mastermind, but when they're playing life. And I forget the exact line, but he's basically like, life. I forgot what the point is. Right.

And it's this meta commentary on how all these things connect. The mastermind thing is deliberate. Okay. What is mastermind? Let's bring him in. David Fincher. It's a game, but it's a game about entrapment and strategy. It's a game about being smarter than your opponent.

I used to play it with my family every single weekend. Oh, that's shocking to hear. Fucking loved winning! Weirdo. You never played Mastermind? You would love it. I didn't. My family stopped playing board games with me because I cheat.

I don't like to lose. I cheat all the time, too. There's a lot of like Scrabble, like some blank tiles that were actually like. I cheat at Uno all the time. I don't cheat, but I'm too competitive. I'm always the banker and Monopoly. I still money from the bank. The musical score.

Yeah. So Fincher, he sent a brief to Trent Resner and Aticus Ross. Based upon a visit he paid to a spa and the music was supposed to relax him. And instead, he thought it was creepy and the music made him feel uncomfortable. And that's what he wanted. He wanted passive and relaxing music that actually instills a sense of dread. Mission accomplished. It does feel like you're in a spa where you might just get stabbed in the aorta as you're getting a massage.

It's an all-time two-for-two for Reznor and, I guess, social network. And, I mean, that's just an amazing. Do you think Resner, the musical scores, is actually a bigger part of his legacy now, the Nine Inch Nails? Is it that it was arguable? He's been in a lot of major movies with, like, really stand-out musical scores, though. I think he definitely sits among the most celebrated film composers of his time, but he's still, I mean, he's the frontman for 90-ish-olds. Does I ever take my theory in this? Sure.

in ER, I think the single best ER episode of all time where Kelly Martin's character gets stabbed by the crazy person in the hospital and they play closer than that Inchdale song as just the instrumental part of it and it works so well. I think he was like, I should just do this. I bet I would get paid. That's another thing about the Desi murder scene. The music.

Yeah, when it comes on. It reminds me of like at the end of annihilation. I was just going to say that sound. It's like something. It actually goes like it's emulating from its. side of your chest. It's incredible. Like if the room is filling with terror.

And it's a sound from a different movie. And that's what really takes you out. I mean, that's the hardest left turn you could possible take, even more so than the reveal about what she's been doing and her plan. Like, that murder is when we're like, we're in a really fucked up movie right now. Yeah, I had that in which they say to best, just how meticulous the plan was,

which we talked about already, like the pouring wine on herself and untucking his shirt and all like the just crazy things you would have to think about to pull that off, knowing where all the security cameras are. Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. What else is age the best?

Well, I just would argue that point. I think that that's where Amy loses her meticulous nature. Everything that she does with Nick stems from how methodical she is. She's been planning that for, since she discovered that he was cheating, right? Since she, the inciting incident, obviously they were very unhappy already in the loss of the money and the problems. But she sees him with Andy. Yeah.

And it's not just that. She realizes that he's cheating. It's that she realizes that he's taken this as like sacred moment in their own history, the lip wipe, the sugar cloud. And he's replicated this special thing, this core part of their origin story in their shared DNA. And he's done this with another woman and not only another woman, but I mean, look at her, right? Like could there be a more threatening presence in anybody's life? So she's plotting every step of that.

The calendar with a, you know, kill self question mark. Like every single step of that to the very end, to her actual demise is plotted. The stuff with Desi is purely reactive and it's instinctual. And that's why actually I think the end of the movie, the part that you said is your favorite, kind of doesn't work in a lot of ways. Like, even though I love the movie. I just like watching it. I don't even think about like a, you know, I just enjoy the entertainment value.

Yeah, it's great. But she ultimately thought that she could make Desi another one of her puppets. And then she realized that she was in a dollhouse that he had built for her. She was the prisoner there, not the other way around. And so she had to find a way to get out of that. See, I felt like she went there knowing what she was going to do. the whole time. Once she lost all her money.

It's an interesting unanswerable question. We're getting ahead of ourselves. I think there's a lot to unpack about the last 40 minutes of the movie about picking nits and unanswerable questions. You see it in her face when he's doing the interview and he makes the line about the woodshed.

And she's like, oh shit, like he can, like Mallor said, he can keep up with me. He's smart. I need to get back to that. That's how I feel too. I would disagree with you, Mallory's surprise about her being sloppy in the end. I think that this is.

I think this is a good example of showing exactly how dangerous she could be. Because I feel like if anybody had enough time, if anybody had eight weeks, you could come up with a pretty good plan to, like, fake a death. But she did this, like, I realize right now I need to get back to him. How do I get out of this situation? How do I get out of this situation without implicating myself? And she just came up with an instant plan just like that. We don't know how many days it was, though. 20-something days pass.

Right. You do know. Yeah. Yeah. still, she hasn't had the makeover when she's watching the interview yet. And she has had the makeover when that happens. She's lost the wage. She's cut her hair. She's dyed her hair. She's used the tweezers, like all of that. So she's been, she's been putting the ropes around her wrist to build up the markings. That part of it is, is planned. It's more that, like, she hasn't

accounted for the question she's going to have to face when she gets back. Like, I don't think you can say that because she got away with it. But that's because the FBI agents should be jailed, not because she did a good job. She did a great job. But there is a complex thing happening in that sequence too. The question of, you know, believing women and survivors and the way that the FBI, which historically has not taken that approach with people who have suffered serious

trauma, that is a commentary on that experience. And it's like a pretty acid-dipped commentary that is coming from a female writer to put that sequence in there and to make, to show that there is like potentially a level of ignorance happening around the examination of some of these things. It's really fraught and

complicated in a movie that is otherwise this kind of like whirling. I do. I do. movies. I love that. It's your favorite. It is. That's your wheelhouse. Any other

What's Age the Best? The side dick. Just it's a great thing that happened. Wait. We should talk about that. All right. You get two minutes on the side. Also, nobody ever talks about this, but you get to see Desi's dick too.

When she gets off with him. Stoked in free-framing along. I paused it to see, like, is this how many dicks are in here? What stage is the best though? Every time you lob one of these categories up, I'm going to send it in Amy's direction. I think Rosamont Pike's performance as Amy's. me done, which will live forever, has aged the best. I don't think anything can compete with that.

Twin Cest, we get a twin Cest reference, and then we had years of Twinsest on, you know, Game of Thrones happening along with this, obviously. That's right. You know what's aged really well? Big era for Twinsest. Is Affleck putting on a Mets hat. That's just some at least shit. You know, when he's walking through the airport and he puts the Mets hat on and he

wouldn't put on the Yankees hat, you know, that great story. That's just aging fantastic. Put on a cardinal's hat. you're wearing a cardinal shirt in half the movie. Yeah. Doesn't make sense. Maybe he just bought it at the airport. I like that Fincher was so upset.

Affleck didn't follow his directions on that. Like, look, man. In my head, it's a fucking Yankee hat. You put the Yankee hat on. Affleck's in, no fucking way. It's a great fight. It's a great fight. I have for what's age the best.

I agree with you on Roseman Pike and the musical score. I'm always in awe of the musical score in this movie. And then when it kicks in when Desi gets murdered, those are great. Oh, it's so good. I think you might disagree with me about this, but I think every single small role is perfectly cast. I agree.

Yeah. And that has aged really well, all of these people. I think it's just the twist. When I was in school, the cool thing was slap bracelets. You may not remember slap bracelets. You slap them onto your arm, and then they stuck around your wrist. Very strange trend.

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because in the theater, if you didn't read the book, it was the best part of seeing the movie in the theater. But now you know it's coming. But in the theater, it was like a, was one of those moments. And you can't recapture that on the 10th viewing. When I saw it, a guy in my theater literally went, oh, shit. But you can appreciate it in a different way. That's why I think it's age the best.

It's because. Yeah, I think it's both. I think you put it in each category. Yeah, just like a. The shock value of it is age the worst. Right. Like when I read, you know, Harry Potter and the Gobbl of Fire for the 947th time, it won't be because I don't know that spoiler alert, Voldemort

it's going to rise out of the cauldron, right? It's because every single detail along the way there, I can appreciate a new or see with some sort of new perspective that I've gained from everything that came after that. That's the whole point of this podcast. Yeah, that's great. Exactly. There you go. Another one's age the worst.

The internet reacting to this movie. Just all of the internet. This was one of the first times with the internet movies, and now we've just seen it in the worst way possible at the new Tarantino movie, where people taking art and just pulling in other shit into it and then arguing about it and using it as a way to be like, look at this. Here's my outrage.

I remember specifically with this being like, dude, it's a movie about a crazy lady who tried to frame her husband and then came back to him and it's really fucked up and there's a lot of shit going on. And that's it. I think it's reasonable to, say that there's more to it than that. I think it's okay to try to use criticism as a way to

understand society by looking at art. That's a big thing in the world. It happens on this podcast all the time. And we've just done it for the last hour. This was different, though. This was like, how dare you? This is irresponsible. It's like, I don't know. Art being irresponsible, I have a tough one with. It's been interesting, this is true for the book as well, but to hear Gillian Flynn engage with some of the, the criticism specifically around the sexual politics of the film or of the story and around Amy as a character. And which she dealt with when the book came out too, right? Yes.

Yes. And I think that the, you know, very simplified boiled down version of her response to that is it's actually important to show that women can be murderous, can be violent. Anyone can be a psycho. Exactly. It's not just like men in movies that are fucking psychos. That was the whole point of this movie. I think an inversion of a certain expectation there is actually fairly compelling. Yeah, you know, when...

They're also, but the other thing there is that they're not, neither of them is a good person. That's important to say. Like, they both made a ton of mistakes. It's not necessarily like about measuring or grading those mistakes against each other, right? Like, does the fact that, we debated this on villains, does the fact that Nick cheated on Amy, which is a transgression, that is a violation of a sacred trust. Does that give her the right to frame him for her murder and then go on to her sensuals a yes. I said no, you know, to then go on and do everything that follows from that, which results in actual loss of life and murder, framing Desi for rape in addition to actually

killing him. And then we haven't even talked about the baby. She actually, I mean, we mentioned it, But that is in some ways the most fucked up thing that she does. You know, she is bringing a life into the world. She's having a child. A person is going to be born and live and grow up in that household because she... And that person will be Satan. This is actually the pre-gill for... Rosamond's baby.

This is good omens. Yeah. The murder is just brutal. It's aged the worst for me. I just have a tough time from a rewatchable standpoint. I'm like, oh, cool, here's the part where you know, Patrick's going to be brutally murdered. Do you know that it's about the differences in the book to the movie with the murder scene? It doesn't happen that way in the book.

So they have sex, obviously, because she has to have his semen inside of her for the rape kid examination. But she poisons him. So she's giving him sleeping pills and then kills him off page, basically. So we get the sex scene, some of the prep, the bottle, the wrappings. but then there's a it's just a line about they'll find his body drained, you know, the bed soaked in blood, the knife that I dropped by the

floor. So it's a knife instead of a box cutter, which is also just like less premeditated and violent. It's more like I grabbed this thing in the kitchen. Yeah, it says up that perfect athletic moment though. Letting him fall asleep and then killing him. When he asked Patrick Fuget, how did she get her hands on a box cutter?

Oh, yeah, no, it's great. It's time. Neil Patrick Harris, the casting. So what stage is the worst for me? I just, I think he sucks in this movie. Oh my God. I go flat out capital S. No. S sucks.

Why? I just think he sucks. I don't, I don't believe his character. I don't believe they have any chemistry at all. I don't think he's really a good actor. I think he's a sitcom actor. I thought it was weird that he was in this movie in the first place.

But do you think they're, he's a sitcom actor game show host? Do you think they're supposed to have chemistry? Yeah, I know. I don't think so. I think that's the whole point. How about this? Post, put a movie actor in there.

He's not a movie actor. He's great in this. Put in the other fucking dude from how I met your mother. Maybe he should have been in this too. Let's just make it, let's make a TV sitcom. Josh Radner as that guy is pretty funny. That would be. It would also work.

I think you need somebody who. Give me at least like Zach Brath. Give me like an annoying guy that I want to see. I could, I just can't get out of. That's Neil Patrick Harris the whole time. He's too much baggage with him for me to think of him as Desi. It's always Neil Patrick Harris. That's my thing.

He really evinces like weak, privileged waspy. Cornball. Desperate. Do that with Toby McGuire. Do the real actor who has gravitas. No. But I think you're not supposed to think that they have anything resembling

sincere organic chemistry. This is a person who's been obsessed with her forever. It's also right. A reminder that... I just think he's bad. I think he's out-acted in scenes. That may be true. He's like...

He's not a Fincher actor. That's true, but she's also supposed to out-class him. Yeah. This is the best performance we've seen in whatever. It's American. I'll have my own opinion. You're entitled.

You're entitled to that opinion. Another one's age the worst. Was Morris's review? I can't wait the next time I talked to him. Oh, you wrote this down too. Yeah. Oh, wow. I remember reading it after the movie came out on Grantland and being like, I'm with Wesley

nine out of ten times and this is the tenth. This is a brilliant piece of movie criticism. Oh, it's great. It's just with a bad opinion inside of it. Yeah. This piece was nominated for National Magazine Award. It's incredible film criticism. And the things that he wends into the piece are astonishing.

It's great. It's really sophisticated. It's just he walks away being like this movie's not good, which is insane. It's so obviously good. I remember sweating, I'm going to argue with him about it for a good hour after I have three drinks. Casting what ifs, we did most of them except. Wait, can I add one to the what's age is the worst? I would like to add because I'm going to, I wrote this down in my notes,

What's Age is the Worst is Bill Simmons saying that Neil Patrick Harris was bad. That was also my what's age the worst. Casting what ifs. Fincher cast Emily Radikowski on recommendation from Ben Affleck. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. It's amazing. I have multiple ellipses in my notes after I left that down.

Let's move to the next category. Honestly, shout out to Ben Affleck. That's just dope. He saw that video and he was like, let's put that person in the movie. That's awesome. Be like, Mallory, I have a new idea for a football writer for us. It's Emily Rer.

Radikowski. She's going to be covering the NFC. She'll be great. Let's do some podcasts. Oh, boy. All right. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants of the Word. It's got to be Patrick Fuget, right? He's that guy from Almost Famous. Do most people know it's Patrick Fuget?

There's a handful of them in this, though. He's grown up almost famous guy. Who would you go for? Well, Missy Pyle, I think, who plays Ellen Abbott. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's the Nancy Grace type. You know, she's in a lot of. lot of stuff.

That's a that lady. She's a that lady. I mean, Boyd Holbrook is in this movie for one minute. But he's transcended that status now, right? Yeah, he's Boyd-Holberg. But when you see him in the movie, you forget that he was in the movie, so it takes you back to when he was a that guy. No, you're right.

It's the Nancy Grace lady because I had no idea what her name was until you just said. You see Boyd, and right away, you're like, sure, I'll do meth with you. Why not? This is where I had the Shauna Kelly character, the Kathleen Rose Perkins, because she's an episode, she's in Colony, she's near the worst. You've seen her on a lot of TV shows over the year, and she does have one of those faces. We're like, oh, I definitely have seen her in something.

What was it? It takes a minute. When I saw her in episodes, I was like, this person should be really famous. She's great in episodes. Why is she not a big comic actress? And she's great in the one minute that she's in of this movie. Casey Wilson for me.

She's too famous. I feel like if you're an S&L cast member. Yeah, I don't know that. Saul Rubenick, they knew a word. That's where we bring in Casey Wilson. For best overacting. I had Casey Wilson, and I also had Roseman Pike. kind of goes for it like two times

Ratchez It up maybe 10% too much I'm the cunt you married speeches She's really She's getting after it The Neil Patrick Harris Award For why the fuck are you in this movie That goes to Neil Patrick Harris

Wait wait wait I just created that right now Why are you in this? We're going past Scoot McNary On either he check or We haven't done DM waiters Oh we haven't okay okay okay It's a crap

out at D.N. Wader's. Okay, sorry. Very. Very. Tyler Perry, who I think qualifies, he's only in like four scenes. Okay. Casey Wilson. My personal choice, Lola Kirk, who I can't believe is also, what is she in Mozart? Oh, Mozart in the jungle, yeah. It's Jemima Kirk's sister, too, from girls. And who did you have? I mean, Scoot McNary is Tommy O'Hara, the boyfriend who Ben Affleck goes to visit and he tells the whole story of their encounter. That one scene. Literally a heat check.

You know, you do know your wife. Exactly. That great line. That's a harrowing, weird, intense scene. Scoot, like, keeps doing this. He did this once upon a time in America, too, where he's in, like, 90 seconds of the movie? It's like Scoot McNair.

He's a pretty famous actor at this point. The Hollywood movie? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Who do you have? It's obviously Emily. I met Nicholas Dunn when he was my creative writing teacher at Mill Valley.

Why is she dressed like a babysitter? I am teaching. Deeply ashamed of having been romantically involved. Oh, yeah. I mean, are you kidding? Her entire performance is, and I say this with nothing but respect and sincere admiration, standing in the snow so that Ben Affleck can rub her lips, sitting on a couch so that Ben Affleck can take her dress off and passionately rub his face against her ample breasts, mouthing things to him

at the vigil then getting dressed up in like schoolgirl innocent outfit to go on and do her press conference so weirdly there's actually like range in the performance

the pouty thing she's she's the fodder for like the absolutely incredible exchange about the underwear between Nick and Go it's like you're dating someone who doesn't even know where she keeps her underwear.

That whole thing is just so incredible. She's my pick. I'm going, Lola. I like Tyler. I like Tyler Perry in this. I just think it's so funny. What a likable performance by him. It's so funny that at the end he's like,

fucking she got you. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? There's a great, Wesley has a great line that's in the piece that describes the Tyler Perry performance as one long, y'all white people are crazy. Yeah, that's funny. Half a internet research. Affleck researched and studied several men who were accused and convicted of killing their wives.

He paid particularly attention to Scott Peterson. That's a tough one if you're just married to Ben Affleck. You're like, what are you reading? Oh, the Scott Peterson book. You're kind of like, okay, cool, dude. Cool, dude. On set one day, Affleck changed the lens setting of a camera in almost indiscernible amount, banning a crew member that Fincher wouldn't notice.

Affleck lost a bed as Fincher brought up. Why does the camera look a little dim? Fincher, fucking maniac. Who do you think Fincher identifies with more, Nick or Amy? Amy. Amy. Who do you think Gillian Flynn identifies with more Nick or Amy? Nick.

Nick. Yeah. That's why this movie works. That's exactly why. There's a Nick and there's an Amy. The bar restaurant is now a real restaurant exactly where it was filmed in Cape Jerodow, Missouri. We mentioned the Yankees thing. First time Ben Affle, I could then full frontal on screen.

Fincher said he wanted to be like a European movie, warts and all. I would quibble with that and say it's not full frontal. It is sidedick. Side frontal. Side frontal. But I appreciated it nonetheless. But kind of a revolutionary moment in sideback. Was that a thing before this?

Had that ever occurred to you? Jason pointed out that they do this scene, like a version of this in a Batman comic. You see like the side of a Batman dick and then you see a real Batman dick. So you think it was ultimately Affleck's idea since he had been reading up on Batman and prepped for Batman? I think it was like a hat tip to it. Yeah. A dick tip to it. When we were thinking to ring her name, siddig.com was one of the five finalists.

We never came through on that. It was taken, unfortunately. She had been sitting on it. I had no idea what this means, but Fincher shot an allegedly incredible 500 hours of material over the 100-day shoot, which is an average of five hours a day. Apparently, that's a lot. Roseman Pike claimed that per Fincher's request, she and Neil Patrick Harris spent two hours on set completely alone, rehearsing their sex scene. I also saw

a report that she had practiced that scene with Adora the Explorer doll? Fun. Don't know if that's true? Jesus. She gained and lost 13 pounds three times to play the character at different times in her life.

Hamburgers and malts to gain the weight, exercise with a boxer for four hours a day and ran five miles a day to lose the weight. So that's why her weight goes up and down. It actually really does. In the scene when Nick pushes Amy against the wall. She said around, take 18

of getting my head bashed against the wall, I literally saw stars. She felt like she had a minor concussion. That was her doing that? Yeah. You should have got the Oscar. I never know how they fake that when somebody's head hits the whatever like that, because obviously, Fincher's like, we're not faking this. What do you guys

think of that moment in the movie? I was shocked. I was 100% shocked. And even more shocked when I find out it was a lie. I think it's, oh, you mean the staircase. No, but that's the real one. Right. You're talking about the one at the end.

The one at the end. Oh, yeah. The rose against the wall. I think it's very purposeful. Yeah. And it's meant to indicate that Nick is not off the hook here. No. Nick is a bad guy.

He's not a good guy. Forever. Yes. And they have something between them that is fucked up. And you should not feel pure sympathy for Nick in this moment. He's still got something toxic. I agree. I think he needed to.

Flynn admitted the gender-related critical response affected her in, uh, She hovered under her covers and said, I killed feminism. Why did I do that? I did not mean to do that. And then she got over it. So there you go. Apex Mountain.

Rosamund Pike, I think, is definition of Apex Mountain. Absolutely. What's Fincher's Apex Mountain? We decided it's Social Network, right? For him? Got to be. Right? It honestly changes all the time. It's Social Network.

Yeah. That's the best movie of this ticket. Every time I watch one of those movies, I'm like, that's the best one. Except for Benjamin Button. I still don't get Benjamin Button at all. I don't really know why he did that. That one's not perverted. I don't think it's the best movie of a decade, though.

You know who's Apex Mountain? This wasn't Neil Patrick Harris, because he fucking sucked in this movie. It's tough beat. This is the Apex Mountain for Mountain Dew. Oh, it might be. Promet and product placement. Like, there's a lot, the whole...

They spit it, though. Do you think they paid for that? You know, that part's tough, but we get... We're really focused... Like, there's a lot of junk food. You know, part of the reveal is the shopping montage, the hair. because she's going to do her whole makeover. You get the little mini donuts.

We see the hamburger later, the Coke, the Cheetos, the Fritos, the Fritos, and the pool later on. But Mountain Dew is the one we linger on. It's been poured into a glass so that we can see the spit. And yet the bottle is still there. You're thinking about that Mountain Dew for a while. And then when she sips it, she's like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I like that moment a lot. It's great.

She's not going to let any slight go unpunished from now on. That's right. That's true. I think Cape Jerodo, Missouri, or wherever the fuck this was, Cape Jericho. Cape Jericho, definitely apex man. Picking Nits. I'm just going to go here right now. So Amy's this meticulous murder framer.

She spends three years framing Ben Affleck and writing diaries and different pens and everything she does. She's a lunatic, a type A maniac lunatic. Obscans to this hotel room, starts gaining weight, has this whole plan. Can't figure out how to hide her money? Yeah. Like Josh Burlin and no country for old men who's a fucking moron. And it's like, yeah, I'll put the money in that vent and push it through and has like a plan. And she's just like, ah, I'll just have a money belt.

He got it. He left the hotel. And then he died. I understood this very clearly when I watched it last night, what's happening with this? And maybe this is obvious if I explain it. But it's the first time that she's ever been confronted with anything that is actually hard in her life. And she has no experience with the real world. She's a super privileged person, and she has no idea what it's like to sleep in a place like this.

She has no idea what kind of people she's going to encounter. She's really isolated in her, like, fancy New York community, and then she's very isolated in Missouri. And it's the first time she's kind of on her own with scurrilous people. And she doesn't really consider the fact that someone would try to rob her and that there was no expectation. And when she drops the money the first time, it's like a kind of a shocking reveal a little bit. You know, you can see that there's like a little, there's a flaw there with her. But even then, she's still not totally sure that someone would take advantage. of her because she's the person who's always taking advantage to someone else.

I disagree. I see her. Yeah. Okay. I disagree. Because we see her, she's ready to get out of there when they show up. And also, you don't hide the money, you keep the money on you. That's what she did.

Her mistake was getting excited about getting a fucking hole in one during miniature golf. That's the best place to have the money is on you. What kind of a money belt falls off when you jump six inches in the air? That was one of my picking hits, too. Like the nature of how it's revealed to them in the first place. And why is she playing miniature golf with those two fuckheads? What is she gaining out of that? I think she's just getting comfortable.

Yeah. You know, she's getting comfortable in her new life. She slipped up. Sloppy. Amy had it. She was right up to the miniature golf. She made that long put. Her whole thing unraveled.

Maybe you're, are you going to go, are we going to go into her suicide plan? Is that on your picking Nets list? Because it's related to this, obviously. I just think she loved herself too much to ever actually kill herself. I never believe that. I think she was going through the charade of that,

but she's too much of a fan of Amy. I agree. That was exactly my take, which is like, I don't, why was she going to kill her stuff? She wanted to get away with this and then have a victory lap for the next 12 years about how she framed this guy and how fucking awesome it was. We talked about how incompetent the FBI was. Very tough. How do you get, you just... Amy's like, I'm tired.

I need, like, how is she not there for seven hours being interrogated every step of the way? They just like, oh, she seems tired. Let's let her go. She's covered in fucking blood. Right. The question is asked, but not by the FBI agents. How do you get the box cutter if you're saying that you were tied up the whole time? Yeah.

You just have to press on that point. You have to. But, like, they don't on purpose, like Sean was saying. Also, I just really like, after she knows she's won and she knows she's defeated Boney, and she gives her that look. Like, I know you know that I know that you know. I'm just, it's fucking Amy done, baby. Amy done. Careless.

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Handelblower versus Handsome Rambler. Wisdom from the top with Guy Raz and the rewatchables, 19-99. I think we've done at least 10, right? How many have we done, Craig? I think nine. Nine? Yeah.

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at Luminary.com slash Simmons. After that, it's only $7.99 per month. Luminary.com slash Simmons for two months of free access, Luminary.org slash Simmons. Cancelain time. Terms apply. This isn't a question really for

for everybody who's ever seen this movie. Would you ever in a millionaire's sleep in the same house of Amy with the door unlocked? Ever after this. Like Ben Affa's like, Nighty-night, let me tuck you in, Ben. Her saying, let me tuck you back in.

Let me tuck you back in. I'd be like, you can tuck me back in, but you're going to leave the room and I'm going to double lock the door with the double lock that I just put in. And you're not getting into my room while I sleep. I would have three locks.

I love the moment where he holds the cat in the second bedroom, like, protecting himself. I would never sleep again. I would just, I would be like Josh Burlin and no country fraud man, just in the door with the giant rifle. There's a line in the book, like he describes it as like it feels like sleeping next to a spider. Like you're just always afraid that you're going to get bitten. I would hope so. She should fucking murder her. Yeah.

She has a great line where he's like, was it really a baby? And then she's laying in the bed. She's like, there can be. And she pats the bed. Yeah. What's going on? But this is going to be my hottest take of. the whole podcast. I would be in. I would be like, you know what? Wow. Come on.

She really loves me a lot. And if she doesn't really, like, genuinely love me a lot, she's going to pretend to love me a lot. So, like, all right, I'll make a life with you. She believes in love. She did all of that stuff. I don't think that Nick thinks for a second that he really loves her. No. Or that she loves him, it's, though the thing that makes the the interview that he does, that that makes that whole sequence so good, it's not really, what he does. It's watching her watch him, you know, in the chin moment and knowing that she's wearing the tie that she got him, the watch that she got him. Because like, what was the theme of the Scoot McNary scene? She was just trying to craft me this whole time. And

that moment for her watching that interview, the reason, to your point, that she convinces herself to go home, it's, it's twofold. She's lost control of the Desi situation or thinks she will. And she sees there proof that she can still make Nick the whole. the thing that she wanted to make him the whole time, and that he does really know her as well as she was always hoping that he would. And that's not love, but it's definitely recognition.

And sometimes that can be enough, at least for these two people. That's enough for me. And also, she's very clear with her rules. Like, do these things and nothing is going to happen and everything's going to be great.

I'm like, all right. Like, if I know what to do, then I'll just do what I'm told to do. Be a prisoner in your own home for the next 18 years. So frame someone for a murder and you have Shayslow for life. Well, let's try to understand what would have happened if Nick had left. What are the ramifications for Nick if he is like, I'm out.

Now, is it a fear of exposure of some things that he had done? Okay. No, I just, I... You're less worried about that and more worried about she's going to do something. Like, she's going to kill me? They kill my sister. Yeah, she's going to figure that something out. It's the baby.

I'm going to pay for this somehow. It's just the baby. I mean, that is the only thing that makes him stay because he... Is it? Yeah. But I think there's an ambiguity at the end that he wants to be with her. There's something sinister going on in that conversation with Margo where you're like, does he actually want to be with her?

Sometimes it's just two people who like kind of hate each other, but also they're like, I need to be around. It's like in cruising, the most fucked up movie of all time, he's shaving in the mirror at the end and you don't know whether he's actually gone all the way or not with his undercover gig. And I felt like it was the same thing with this movie. I have no idea if he's actually now in. with this marriage? Because it seems like he's in.

Definitely. I think there's a difference between affection, love, connection, whatever you want to call it, and an addiction. There's definitely an addiction at play, the two of them share, but the baby is the thing that brings him back

into the point where that can then kick in again. I don't think that happens otherwise. And I think that is, again, while I think in general, I enjoy the movie as much as or more than the book, one of the big changes that is for the worst in terms of understanding the characters is not making Nick's dad a character. Like he's in it for 30 seconds, you don't get any of that history.

And that history is essential because Nick's father was a cheater and was a misogynist and wasn't a good father. And so he, like this defining presence in his life is the fear that he is going to become that, that he doesn't know how to appreciate and treat women because of the lessons that he internalized from watching his father. And so what does he want to be? He wants to prove that he can be a good father. That's important to him.

And he wanted that baby. Remember, he was the one who wanted to have a child. Amy didn't. Best quote. Wait, wait, wait. There are more nits to pick. Oh, go. I can't believe no one else mentioned this.

Neil Patrick Harris-Sucking. I'll be happy to bring it up. No, we talked about that. Once or twice. The night that they meet. They're at the party. Cute talk about wheat beer. Great.

Walk through a sugar storm. You kiss. Great. Things are going well. fine, you go back to an apartment, you hook up, great. Nick is going down on Amy and does not remove her underwear. I think that's a thing, though. He's just, but it's not like a, oh, I'm just like making my way around your body for a few seconds,

and this is all part of exploring you and the foreplay. They are fully in the act. Like, this is, if you look at the headboard, there are handprints, sugar handprints everywhere. Like they've been going at this for quite some time. He is down there. We have the classic framing of the scene where her leg is up to block his face so that we can't actually see her nudity in full. And then we get the reverse angle from her perspective. We're so, Nick, oh.

And he's just like, you know, lives up her underwear. Look at her. And it's like, you've just been doing that for 10 minutes? Just holding up her underwear? Take them off. What are you doing? When she has sex with Desi, though, she also has. her under her own. That's because she's about to make an escape. I know, but maybe that's like

a thing that just everybody knows about her who has been with her. I just think you just got to open your mind to different techniques, you know? Everybody's different. They've got different strategies. Sure. Who knows what's going on? Nick's on. He's been working at a men's magazine. Who knows what kind of advice they're given in those magazines? Men's magazine. You know, you never know. Okay. I'm going to call pick a knit on that one. Maybe one more picking knit. I got a few more. That was a great. That was a great knit. You just I just don't like that when Nick is sweeping up the broken glass in the kitchen, bleaker the cat is sitting on the stool.

Like he let him walk through the broken glass to get up to the stool. That helps out him being a bad character. He did. And he's in general quite nurturing to him. You know, I don't like that he leaves him alone. Take him with you to Goose House, be with your animal. But that was very upsetting. I also, the moment where Nick is like sold on Tanner Bolt fully is because Tanner

finds the Tommy O'Hara gives the scoot character who then 12 seconds later in the film says out loud, I can't get a date because when women Google me, this is what they see. So the thing that sold you on an $100,000 retainer lawyer

is that he could Google a guy. Anyone can find this guy. He's a registered sex offender. What? We already talked about the Mets hat. Should have just been a Cardinal's hat. Doesn't make sense. How did the money belt fall off when she jumped in the air. I don't understand that. And then the media training with Tanner Bold and Nick.

The gummy bear scene? I like it. It's there, it's 10 minutes before the interview. Yeah. What have they been doing for the last like, handful of dates? That's a last run through. No, it isn't. It's the first run through. Very clearly, the first run through. And then this has really always bothered me. It just, Amy covered in blood during the FBI interrogation. Like wash it off. Wash it off. It's disgusting. It just doesn't make sense. They would want her to be comfortable and clean. The fact that she is that committed to the bit is a movie making flourish in an effort to get

the blood to run off of her when they go in the shower. That's all set up for the shower. Not a fan of it. And then no one hears when they reunite that she says kiss. And then during the inner, no one hears what he whispers her when they reunite. And then no one hears during the welcome home event kiss me on the cheek. And then no one sees that he doesn't do it.

I enjoy that. I think that reveals the falseness of the whole presentation that a lot of this is fake. Life is fakery. One more picking net. Are you done? I am. I'm done.

That was a great list. Thanks, man. It's a good list. I love this movie. One more. When they have the fight about the money, and she tells him that her parents took most of her trust fund. And she's like that, you know, almost all of the million dollars. Or it's almost a million dollars.

And he says, oh, that was almost all of it. And then later on, we find out that they took $870-something thousand dollars, which means in her trust fund still, she has over $120,000, at minimum. y'all are not poor like fucking relax about the fucking depression or whatever like job depression fucking you got money you're okay

you're buying fucking laptops for laptop yeah it's a it's a fake version of struggle their whole life is a fake version of struggle it's what they imagine I mean they're living in basically a McMansion in a suburban neighborhood in Missouri you know that house is fucking beautiful there's French doors in the upstairs segment you know there's all these

built-ins along the hallway would move the ringer there that'd be great Not to Missouri, because fuck the Cardinals. Cape Cherito, Missouri. I like doing any podcast with Mallory, her insistence on using the name of the pet, and not just calling it the cat, which really any normal human being would do is be like,

and then their cat, and she's like, bleaker the cat. You identify the... I should note, though, that the actor's name is Cheeto. Okay. Next. It's a great performance for Cheeto. I just a... Yeah, Cheeto.

He has such a presence about him in every scene. You should email Cheeto's agent. Tell him really like this. Well, don't you wish you could talk to Cheeto? He witnessed everything. He did. He sees it all. What do you got next?

Best quote. We're not allowed to do anything from the Amy monologue. My favorite non-Amy quote is, I swear you people are the most fucked up people I've ever known, and I specialize them fucked up. She had me stripped naked and standing in the shower. That's where you two are the most fucked up people I've ever known. And I specialize it fucked up.

You and Amy under the same roof? Tanner. It's just great from Tanner. That's a good high school year book quote. If somebody puts that in with the one asterisk on the three years, that's a statement on the high school. Just I'm out. What else do you have Mallory?

I'm allowing you four. Oh, no. Yeah, four. They have to go. I have like 15. All right. We're running at a time. I'll do mine.

This is at the very end of the movie. This is after we've seen Amy just do 100 insane things. Yeah. And her and Ben are fighting about the baby. She tells him about the baby. And he says, I want a blood test. I want a paternity test.

And her response to that. I love tests. Amy, you can teach. I'm fucking. I laughed out loud when that happened. I just couldn't believe it. Good one. That was what she said.

That's my favorite line of the whole movie. I love tests. Your favorite isn't fun fact for the readers. You have a world-class vagina? No. No one? No. I love tests.

Imagine saying that to your fiancé in full. front of reporters. Astonishing moment. Quite a flex. I really like, um, uh, baller's got three months. We can keep talking about the vagina. You know, we know how hard she worked for it.

That's not one of my four picks. I was throwing it out there thinking maybe one of you were going to pick. The opening, the opening moment of the movie, next hole. Yeah. When I think of my wife, I always think of her head. I picture of cracking her lovely skull, unspooling her brains, trying to get answers. The real payoff is the primal questions of any marriage. What are you thinking? How are you feeling? What have we done to each other? That is an incredible opening note for the film and a pretty

poignant thing to spend a little bit of time thinking about in your own life. I really like that. Unless you're like, I can't believe all the great stuff we've done together. That's true. What else? I like, the one I was trying to think of was I was with you before we were even born when Margo and Nick were talking at the end. Go has a lot of good lines. Go is down. I love when Go is like, I thought writers hated cliches when she's dunking on him about the affair.

We talked about this moment already, but when Goe says at the end when she's breaking down and Nick is, you know, telling her that he's going to stay with Amy, that they're going to have a baby. And the way that she says you want to stay with her is really devastating. That is a sad, sad moment.

Really well acting. Another good go one is when they're saying, they're listening all the places that Ben has had sex and they do the woodshed and she's like, why didn't you just get a hotel? He's like, it shows up on the statement. Why didn't you put it on Andes? And it's like, it goes to her parents and just goes, ew.

Marco does have a lot. Everyone knows that complicated is a code word for bitch. That's great. I mean, perhaps the least believable line of dialogue in the whole movie is a sister saying to her twin brother, I don't know what you can do. I know what you can do. You can go home and fuck her brains out. Then you can take

your penis and smack her in the face with it and say, there's some wood, bitch. Imagine a sibling saying that to you. That's a tough one. Kind of Lannister-assar-ass. I like the exchange between Bonie and Gil about how Amy is funding Nick's

life and the line when Gil says, no, but it is humiliating. That's a really good line and a really good moment that gets to the heart of a lot of the, not only their interpersonal dynamics, but the gender politics. at large and what what can make a man feel emasculated in his relationship.

I think that's like a, that's a succinct but important moment. Of all of Amy's lines, I think the one that, man, there are so many good ones. The pregnant idiot one. It might hurt you, but it is. Invite pregnant idiot into your home and plier with lemonade. It really is exceptional. Invite pregnant idiot into your home and plier with lemonade. I think my favorite Amy one, though, is he actually. expected me to love him unconditionally. That's crushing.

But Nick got lazy. He became someone I did not agree to marry. He actually expected me to love him unconditionally. Then he dragged me penniless to the naval of this great country and found himself a newer, younger, bouncier, cool girl. That's tough. Could this be a made as a 10-episode Netflix show? Yes.

Yeah. I think the answer is yes, but it would have to be two five-episode seasons. Would you rather Fincher made this or Man Hunter? Mind Hunter. Mind Hunter. Just choosing this is a series versus Mind Hunter. I think Mind Hunter is a better idea for a series. I think Gone Girl is a better idea for a movie, and it works great as a movie.

Probably unanswerable questions. Would Amy returning to Nick's house in front of the cameras, how many YouTube views for that clip? I'm going to say like 25 million. Oh, easy. Easy. That's like the craziest clip of all time. Maybe like $125 million.

Yeah. Just say, hey, just see that clip out of the lady covered in blood. This is a national story at this way. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Rosamine Pike said there was rumors of a gone girl sequel and she'd be interested in. What does a gone girl sequel look like? Maybe that's the 10 episode Netflix show.

Yeah. I mean, the further adventures of Amy Dunn doing crazy shit is basically what it would be. Inevitably, she would have to do something else. She would have to orchestrate something else. The internet would be very upset. Gone Girl 2. Rosabond, Ben, and the baby. Yeah.

Damien Oman, baby. They're at a carnival. They're at a carnival. They're walking back to that car. They've just gotten some snacks. Rosamond is like, oh, I need some mustard for my corn dog. She goes back. When she goes back, some cartel members drive by.

They shoot up the place. It turns out Ben Affleck was it had a bad drug deal with a cartel. Kills Ben, kills the daughter. and this also could be dead of I was just going to say Is this a Den of Thieves crossover? This is the movie Peppermint.

I just watched a movie peppermint with Jennifer Garner. It just fit. It all fit. I thought you were going to go The baby got kidnapped. No. And it was called like Gone Boy. And it was like a five-year-old kid

kidnapped that a carnival. What's their kid's life going to be like? It's going to be fantastic. It's going to be a great on-ant- Unanswerable Cush. What? They're going to be. really good at soccer and they're going to get into an Ivy League school.

Those two things are going to happen for this baby. Again, I'd like to state for the record that Amy, when we say Amy is crazy, it's not, we're not using that word in the like casual, euphemistic way that people sometimes use it. Amy is like, is a psychopath. She is the star of season four of Mindhunter. Yeah. Amy is a psycho person. So I don't think that child's life would be happy, Ivy League soccer or not.

Did no one hear them fuck in the bookshop? That's one of my unanswerable questions. There's a person very close by, right? What would you do? Well, if I heard. Yeah. Oh. Same.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say, too. Walk away. Take some books out. This, um, look, and then put them back and go. This question is just for Mallory. You guys can stay out of this. Should we leave? No, you can just, you can stay out of this.

Was there any fluffing? Yeah. I'm glad you brought this up. I've been wondering about this. Had to be a little bit, right? How much time do you think he took? He's like, can you give me 30 seconds? So how graphic do we want to be here?

Well, that's why I told them to sit this out. There's no gravity is still at play, right? Right, right? We're hanging down. It's a rise and fall situation. It's obviously a rise and fall situation. We're on the back end. We're on the back end.

Oh. Interesting. It has to be. I don't know what y'all are talking about. Let's bring him out. Ben Affleck. Ben, would you like to demonstrate for us right now how you pulled it off? Who won the movie? No more unanswerable questions.

No. We got to end this. Who won the movie? Rosamond. I always say Fincher when we do Fincher movies. Bleak here the cat. Because this is his most successful movie ever. And it's in 2014 when movies are no longer successful at the box office. And he basically drops the mic and then goes out and makes it.

television and gets all the money in the world from Netflix. Also, Fincher, it's important to note this. I should have said it at the top when you were talking about him. Obsessed with Alfred Hitchcock. Obsessed. If there's this great documentary called Hitchcock True Foe about the book, Hitchcock True Foe, Fincher is talking in it.

He never does interviews like this. He talks at length about what he loves about Hitchcock movies, how he studies them. This is a Hitchcock movie. It's more fucked up. It's got more blood. It's got more sex. It's got more dick.

But it's a striking blonde. It's a scurrilous, tall, handsome movie actor, it's got a lot of changing sense of who we should trust and who we should not trust. It's pure Hitchcock and it's his ode to these Hitchcock movies. So to me, it's Fincher.

I asked him about Venture. You've convinced me. I just feel like... I just feel like the part was incredible and I think four or five actresses would have at least scored 50 points with this part. She's exceptional. Maybe

she's a great win for them and for bleak. or the cat. I just will say, I can't believe we didn't do an unanswerable question on Tanner Bolt's two guys that he keeps mentioning. I got two guys. We could have done a whole 30 minutes on them. Something to look forward to next time. I forgot one more in answerable question. What, what? What? He's still around? Thriving. Yeah. What? Yes. He's good. Great. He probably ran away and got hit by a car. Why would you say that? What's wrong with you? That's it for the rewatchables.

Shame, Mallory. Sean, this is a pleasure. Thanks to Voodoo, a leading streaming app of the library of over 150,000 titles available to rent or buy like the hit, biographical musical Rocket Man. Over 10,000 titles you can watch for free

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