The Rewatchables - ‘He Got Game’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Logan Murdock

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Logan Murdock head to Coney Island to check out the top-ranked basketball prospect in the country, Jesus Shuttlesworth, as they rewatch Spike Lee’s sports drama ‘He Got Game,’ starring Denzel Washington, Ray Allen, and Rosario Dawson. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Once a year we bring you in for a big rewatchables movie. Let's do it, man. It's it. This is what we do. He got game 25th anniversary of a movie. I have a very complicated relationship with that over the last, I would say 12 years. It's like a marriage where you broke up and you got back together and it's stronger than ever.

I love this movie. I can't wait to talk about it. He got game next. Everyone wants something from Jesus Shuttlesworth. The guy's unbelievable. But what his father wants. Can we talk for a moment? Is something money can't buy.

It might feel good. It might sound a little something. But damn the game. I figure if you might need some fatherly advice. From who? For me? Denzel Washington. I pray that you understand why I pushed you so harm.

in a game. This is life. Don't blow it. He got game. A Spike Lee Joint rated R. Starts Friday, May 1st. All right, so this movie came out in 1998. Logan was not old.

What month did it come out in? It was like April in 1998. I was four years old when this came out. Fan was a little older. Saw it in theaters. I did too. This movie, I could not wait for it to come out. I was so excited.

The trailer was great. They were using Ray Allen in a movie, which seemed amazing. Denzel, peak of his powers. And I felt like it didn't quite get there, but I liked a lot of pieces of it. And that's where I landed for about 10 years. And I was like, oh, man, he was so close.

He almost had it. Everything was there. He almost did it. He just couldn't land the plane. It's too long. We have this call girl subplot. He almost got there. He didn't get there.

But then as the years pass, and you watch everybody else do way worse versions of, and it's like, Oh, he actually got way closer than I realized because nobody has come near this movie since it came out. I had this belated appreciation for it. Watch the last time.

It was so much fun to watch. What's your relationship with this movie, man? It was, the movie tracks along with my maturation. Yeah. Because the basketball movies throughout the 90s get more serious and weighty almost as the 90s go on. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You got basketball comedies early on because there was this whole thing. Heaven is a playground and all of that, stuff like that. And then you get to above the rim, and it's a little bit more serious of a basketball movie. And now, Spike Lee, because basketball culture is becoming, it's so huge at this time,

getting eBay magazines, ordering new shoes and new shirts, trying to do all kinds of stuff, right? And he wants to interrogate it seriously. He seriously wants to interrogate college basketball. He wants to interrogate from high school to pro, because this is two years. This is Kobe. And this is Kevin Garnett.

He wants to do a real movie about what these young athletes are. And hangers on and leeches, and family members, all this shit. And prison and black families. He wants to do all of this. And he makes the movie. And it was me kind of understanding all this stuff at the same time. And I remember it. So you got it immediately.

Immediately. Because I also remember a scene in hoop dreams where Spike Lee is talking. Do you remember that? Right. So there's a scene in Hoop Dreams where Spike Lee... Motivational speaker, but not really. But not really, right? And in that crowd of people, I think it's like Joanne Howard and all of these people...

Yeah. All of these people... Sewebub. C-Web, everybody's there. And I remember thinking about that and thinking about Hoop Dreams, and Spike wanted to make this movie. He wanted to give the speech that he gave to those kids, which was, you're just a commodity. These people don't care about you. They can make...

He wanted to make the movie version of that, and that's what Hoop Dreams was. How about you, Logan? Because you grew up with this movie. Yeah, so this kind of shaped my thinking on how the NBA and the college ranks in high school, how all this system works, right? Because this was a baseline of how I saw NBA basketball and saw college basketball and the recruiting aspect of that. That really shaped how I thought about it.

Because when I think I first saw it, I didn't see it when it first came out. I remember seeing it. My mom lived up in Sacramento, and it was just one of those things where you're flipping through the channels and I see Ray Allen, and I don't believe that it's really Ray Allen, you know, and I think this was about the 01. My mom had gotten this tickets to actually see the Milwaukee Bucks play the Warriors that year. And so I knew who Ray Allen was as a young kid. I think I was probably like six or seven when I had seen this. So I see Ray Allen. And I'll go, Mom, is that really the Ray Allen that we just went to go see? And then I knew, I had an idea who Denzel Washington was. And my mom always

played Malcolm X. And so I knew who Spike Lee was. So I was like, okay, this is really cool. We watched it like midway through and I was like, oh God, I'm hooked. This is real basketball. I'm hooked on watching this. And then as the years went- And then Chasey Landon and Joe Kelly came in and your mom's like, oh my God. Yeah, exactly. Curve your eyes. See, I knew who they were.

During the time that the movie came, I was like, oh, my friend. All my world's combining. It's funny because I started during, I flipped it on. It was Rick Fox walking Jesus through the, that's a horse shadow. But that's 0-1. And then you see, my favorite player at the time was Kobe. And then two years later, you see LeBron coming into the league and coming into his own. So it really was an education for me, whereas Van is coming of age, I'm assuming as like, you know, a 35-year-old at that point.

He's probably really, really old at that point. As me, I was just really, I was a kid. And it really just kind of shaped how I saw this system that I, that is funny because that I was actually going to go into at some point in time. But it really was an educational point for me to see how this world works. Yeah, I came into it I love basketball movies Probably the most of any human being So I had such high expectations

I was like oh this is gonna be it This is like the legacy of the 70s movies Of Fish That Save Bitsberg And one-on-one and fast break All the way through to the Hoosiers there All the way through to where we were in the 90s With Blue Chips and Above the Rim and Eddie I was like Spike's gonna make the best one

This is it He was meant to do this Huge Knicks fan grew up as a director in this whole culture, did the Nike stuff, knew the Stefan Marbury story, which I think we can talk about how much that was based on this,

but there was a great book about Stefan Marbury called The Last Shot by Darcy Fry, which is still one of the best basketball books ever, and it was set in Konyi, and a lot of this Jesus story, Stefan's like a ninth grader at that point, but everybody knows he's going to be the guy,

and he's got brothers, and I was just like, he's going to land the plane on this. And I think for years, I watched it thinking of the things that he didn't get right. But now, all these years later, it's like nobody's come close

to getting as many things right in a movie. And then you think, like, the LeBron stuff happens five years later, right? The Jesus Shuttles were a thing. This seems like the craziest version of somebody like this, right? It's like on steroids. And then it wasn't on steroids

because the LeBron experience really was like this in a lot of ways as a high schooler. Yeah. They're showing his game. on ESPN and we knew who his friends were. And so many things about LeBron, people don't remember. LeBron, I first knew who LeBron James was because LeBron James was going to skip his senior

year in high school. Right. He was going to skip his senior year in high school and go to the league. I said, well, that's not. I mean, could that work? It's like, who is this guy? And everybody's going to his games and stuff. And you also get to see the commodification of a young athlete and what that means.

and how many people's livelihoods and their own personal legacies are caught up into whether or not you figure it out. And that's one thing that the movie got for me right away. Yeah. There was a network that was interconnected, right? And it had to do with big time Willie, the pimp, had to do with his girl, had to do with the people that she knew, had to do with his uncle. Don't forget Uncle Bubba, yeah.

Uncle Bubba, the father, the coach, the governor. Yeah. So this one commodity, which is a hypertension. talented young athlete was affecting everybody in this way. And I thought that was something that the movie got right, really right, and enlightened me on it. Well, to add on that point, the LeBron comparisons in this story is obviously the one that you go to. But a lot of the story is predicated also on Kevin Garnett's story. If you look at it closely, because not only is Jesus, this kid who is this, you know,

about to be this economy for this group of people, right? He also has to be a father to his sister and has to in a similar way that KG did. If you go look at KG's story, you know, something happened when he was in South Carolina and then he had to go to Chicago, had to fend for not only for himself, but, you know, he had to fend for his little sister, if I believe, and also, you know, get housing for them, get food for them, make sure that, you know, his sister's going to school a long time and getting an education and making sure he's not, it's just, it's one of those things where Jesus has to grow up so fast, not only for himself, but for the people around him.

Like, he has to be more mature than Uncle Bubba, right? He has to be everyone's father in this, in this, in this, uh, in this whole scenario while being a, you know, a great basketball player. And, you know, it seems easy in practice when you see it on a television screen, right? You see all these things that are happening. But there are, you know, there are, there are so many examples of, uh, people that didn't make it trying to be this type of player. I think about my man's from New Jersey.

Forget his name. He was, he played against, he was, he was one of those high school players. Duan Wagner? No, not DeWan Wagner. Lenny, not Lenny. Oh, Lenny Cook. Lenny Cook, exactly.

Lenny Cook, you look at his documentary where he's trying to be that Jesus Shelter's Worth type character and try to get his family up, but he's the one that is actually taking the cars. He's the one that's actually talking. to the agents and he's not focused on basketball, right? And no shame to Lenny Cook, but that's where it could go too because not everyone is mature enough to be able to deal with all of these types of things. And I think that Spike does a great job of showing the temptation

that can come from when you're trying to get out of these scenarios. You got, you know, big time Willie who's looking out for you, making sure you don't get popped or you have Uncle Bubba, who is taking you in after, you know, your dad's. The cars of my name. There's so many different things that you have to navigate. I think Spike did a really good job of trying to put all of these things into one narrative type of piece. And we're going to talk about the flaws in that, but he did a really good job of actually

making a movie out of that because it's really hard to do. Yeah, I feel like I'm more sophisticated about this world, too. Just as my career is gone, I've learned and heard more stories. And even like when we did the broke 30 for 30, seeing how that resonated in the community where I think that's the story. that was one of the big reasons Spike wanted to tell this story. Other than that, he just wanted to make a great basketball movie. But

I think he became so fascinated by how many obstacles were against these guys, even somebody like Jesus, who had the most going for him, that that's what the movie is about. For like 10 years of this movie, I was so mad that oh, why is the

Milo Jovovich character in this? Just get her the fuck out. That's 50 minutes we could have saved. Why didn't you dip into the New York City music scene? with the soundtrack. I just couldn't believe it felt like he was almost being stubborn with,

no, I'm gonna score this like I would score, like you would score like Hoosiers, right? And it's like, well, we're in Brooklyn. This is like one of the most exciting times in the history of hip-hop. Why aren't we diving into that? You got to also understand during that time I'm assuming he's filming this

in 98 or 97, comes out 98. During that time, what happens? Biggie dies, you know, gets killed, March 97, you know, New York hip-hop is really in flux during that time. It's at the high... Jay-Z's coming, though. Jay-Z is coming. That happens, but, like, New York rap is such in flux

in that moment that, you know, the safe pick would be go, hey, Chuck D., can you hold me down real quick? Well, I mean, the reality is that it's, that's not what Spike does. No. I mean, Spike is a high-art filmmaker, right? And this represents an interesting time in his career. So if you look at the late 80s, early 90s, spike, it's him really using each movie to solidify his importance

as like a real artistic filmmaking force. And he's also working every year, putting shit out. That's your golden era run there. That's your Mobet or Blues. That's your Jungle Fever era. That's Malcolm X. That's do the right thing. Yeah.

School day is right before. So that's the area that comes. Then you get to the point to where everyone knows what a badass spike is. And there's a chunk where he just starts making movies based upon it seems like things that interest him or things that are very personal to him. You have the exploitation of black women. That's Girl 6. You have his upbringing, which is Crooklyn, right? It's essentially his sister's biopic.

She wrote that script. He polished it. They make the movie. you have to get on the bus, which is a little bit later, but it's about the million men march. These are things that are top of mind to spike, and one of those things is, of course, basketball.

But he's still going to spike lead. You're still going to get your floating crane shot. You're still going to get your jazzy sweeping score. You're still going to get public enemy. You're going to get all of that stuff. He's really never straight away from that. And also with the movie, by the way, we talked about some of the stars that we love

that were in the film earlier, don't want to leave out Heather Hunter. I know she's listed. I don't want to leave out, Heather Hunter. Don't leave her out. But, you know, the middle of the judge of his character, it still doesn't work. I watched it. It still doesn't work, right?

I actually fast forwarded this time. I did too. There was an eight-minute stretch. I'm like, I'm just, I'm just zooming through it. I just went, you know what? It still doesn't work. But if you love Spike, you still know that there's an off-kilter charm about it that makes sense. You get to learn a little

bit more about Jake. It's a different movie. It's definitely a different movie. You get to learn a little bit more about Jake and he just throws people in film. I see why he did it because he didn't want Denzel to just be the guy who's trying to run into his son and holding the big state thing. He wants he wanted to have some sort of journey.

I thought that was whack, though, man. The prostitute and all that. I just thought there was no need for it. It doesn't build the story at all. Didn't the show at the end on the bus? It's like, oh, I care about how her journey ended? Like, I could care less about this person. There's a three-hour cut in this movie where there's a whole love story about it. We'll tell you this.

I envision a scene where Spike and them are sitting around there, right in the movie. They're like, okay, he gets to get out of jail for a week. He's been locked down, like, six, seven years or something like that. And somebody goes, well, you know he's got to go get some ass, right? You know, that's, I mean, he's been gone for a long time. You know, that's got to happen. So we have to put that in the movie. but somehow make it meaningful, and that's...

That's literally, there's a Charlie Rose Spike Lee interview right after, or I guess in the lead-up to when the Hie-Dah game is coming out, and Charlie asked him, like, what happened? And Spike basically says, well, he was down for seven years. He needed to get some ass. That was literally why that plot was in. It doesn't enhance the movie. It doesn't do anything.

It's only because of the fact that he believes... I think it's Spike, like, if I was in jail for a decade, what's the first thing I want? I want some ass. So, Denzel should want some... some ass. And that's, that's, that's why I'm disappointed with that storyline because it's so simple. And I feel like that's beneath what Spike should be doing. And he, I think he was taking shit in the mid-90s for he wasn't running female characters well enough and stuff like that.

So I think he thought, well, this movie is yet another one where I'll take shit for. But he does this in every movie though. Yeah. In, in most, there are a couple of Spike Lee movies that are just perfect. And they don't, they're just perfect, right? 25th hour. You love 25th hour? I do. Okay. I think Mobeda Blues is a perfect movie.

Yeah. I think it's a beautiful, brilliant, sexy piece of moving art. It's just a beautiful movie, right? But, like, you know, they're characters that come up, pop up in Spike Lee movies that are just odd. And they just, they're just kind of there. You know what I mean? They're odd. And they're these competing storylines, but you, after a while to appreciate his movies.

It's part of the Spike Package. As far as thought, I was going to, I guess I could wait for this for what age the worst, but you guys brought it up in terms of his relationship towards women in cinema. And this is something I was really frustrated watching this movie as close as I did this last time, was just how women are portrayed specifically in this movie. This doesn't feel like there's any woman that has a redeeming quality in this movie, right? Because Lala, you could tell from the beginning she is trying to get something out of Jesus, right? You talk about the prostitute who, while I'm sure she was good, but you always had the feeling of like, oh, Denzel's just saving her, right?

Either they're weak or they are trying to leach off of something. What does Big Willie say? Oh, yeah, the biggest drug is pussy, right? There's not really a redeeming character of a... About all the college girls. All the college girls are just objects. So here's my counter. What characters were redeeming in this movie?

Nobody was. Yeah. Who? Bougar. But like, here's another thing. But I'm saying, though, there, I think that that there is a movie where it could be a bit more nuanced take on this, right? Because not everyone when you're on the ascent are leeches. Not every single person.

There is some people that are like, hey, I can do that. But that's when Van said he's Spike Lee in it. That's the whole thing. Spike Lee is Spike Lee in it. But that's my critique of it, though, right? Like, you mean to tell me there's not one woman that has Jesus' back in this movie? There's not one in this one. A couple of things.

Number one, I think it's, to me, there are two women in the movie. The only two women in the movie that, the only two people in the movie who are selfless are women. Number one, his mother. The mother was the one that wrote him the letter. She was going to be the balance in his life. Jesus ends up being the way that he is because the thing that balanced him got taken away from him. She was the one that was like, hey, write him letters. please don't just focus on basketball all the time.

Please try to have some fun. Hey, these basketball wars between you and your father have to stop. They get into it. She's in there. She's consoling him. Jake is being so hard on him that it's literally her interceding in that that costs her life. And then also remember her sister. When they're sitting down and they're talking to and talking to Uncle Bubba,

who just reminds me so much of the people. He's like, the John the Conqueror. Listen, y'all have never been down south and gone to one of your uncles or your dad's a medicine cabinet and seen the John the Conqueror route in there, they believe in it. But she goes, hey, we don't want any of that stuff. We want you to be able to live your life. My pop said that shit in his little bit of the cabinet cabinet. Yeah, the John of Concord.

So I think that the movie in and of itself is really everyone is. is investing into his future in some way, shape, or form. It's hard to be around him and not be invested into his future. And when you've been in a situation where that talent is seen on somebody so young, I've seen this so many times. Like somebody, that talent is seen on somebody so young, and there's not that many opportunities to get out of it. People start fretting this.

Oh, my God, please don't give him a bad grade. Officer, please don't. everyone protect, protect, protect. And when it starts to get there, right, when a person gets to where they're going to go, it's like, hey, remember, I'm the one who made that cop, looked the other way, I'm the one who gave you that grant. I'm the, you know, it's part of it.

It's like when he goes into his coach's office and his coach is like, you know, I never want anything for me, right? You know, I never even asked for anything. I did all that stuff for you. I did all that. So, you know, just take this money and tell me what you want to give him. This is the speech at the end of blue chips. Nick Nolte says at the end of blue chips,

he goes, there somewhere right now. there's a kid. And he's just loving basketball. He's shooting the basketball around. He could dunk. He said it was a 10-year-old kid. He said the kid could dunk already. I was like, damn, really? And he's like, and he's dunked and there's always a brother William. He's like really quickly, people are going to descend on him. And everything about his life is going to be about their future employment and riches. And blue, excuse me, not blue chips. He's got games essentially a movie about that kid if he didn't have a dad. Can I defend Lala for a second? Go ahead

Great character Love her I love the fact that she was the only one Who was honest with him in the whole movie Only one person was like Here's what I'm trying to get from you This is why I did it And I'm no different than everyone else in your life

Nobody else actually said that to him One and a half Because there's the beach scene with Denzel where he's like Yo I'm just going to lay it out there And I'm just going to tell you that I need you to go to big stage But he also wants to win his love back as a father too The Lala

What I liked about Lala was Lala goes He goes Are you fucking old boy? And Lala goes Yeah, at least I admit it I'm like, whoa You know what I mean?

But she, but really She's like, I know what's going to happen You're going to go to college I'm just going to be like Everybody else That gets left behind Why can't I get something? So there's honorable and like

Yeah, I fucked you over Yeah, I did it. Yeah, this is honor She was at least I felt like a relatively honest character Hold on. Before we move off this, I got to tell you guys something

Let me tell you what really happened with Lala here. Oh God. I was taken, and transported back to a time in life. When Roseira Duss, I sat down in a theater, and I was like, yo, what is that thing?

I was like, oh, my God. And we were around the same age. Actually, saw her last week. Like, a couple weeks ago, we went to the Star Wars premiere me and now, and she was there. And I've seen her a couple times and met her around town. I know, hey, whatever. But I remember the first time I saw her.

we went so crazy behind her. So insane. And so really her character can do no wrong to me. I take it. There are two instances where Logan found puberty. And one was 1997 Titanic with Rose Dawson. And the second was Rose Dawson. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. It was Rose. Thrown her hand against the window. The second was Lala. And when she goes, I just want to feel your sign. We're out of Jimmy.

That was the one. Yeah. That was a different podcast. Jesus, Lord. I can't even throw it to a break now. That was great. I want to... I just want to do the positive part

because I really do like this movie. But it's the perfectly watchable because you can jump in and out in different parts. They're like, oh, we're in this part. We're now in the hotel with Denzel for 10 minutes. I'm going to jump out. I'm going to try to come back when, you know, whatever. This has two of my favorite sports movie scenes ever.

Not to step on the rewatchables too much. But I love the speech with the Earl Monroe speech. It's just so fucking good. That's as good of the three minutes as Spike has had, in my opinion. My all-time favorite ballplay was Earl Monroe. Oh, the pro? Yeah, he was nice. See, everybody remember from the Knicks, you know,

when he helped win that second championship and everything like that. But I'm talking about when he was with the ball. Bullets down Winston-Salem Stadium before that gave him 42 points a game the whole season. 41.6. The whole season. For the Knicks, they put his shackles on him, man. You know, on this whole game, they locked him up like in a straight jacket or something. When he was in the streets of Philly, playgrounds, ah, he was like, you know what they call him?

What? Jesus. That's what they call him, Jesus. Because he was the truth. Then the white media got a hold of it. Then they got to call him Black Jesus. You know, he can't just be Jesus. He got to be black Jesus, you know.

But still, he was the truth. So that's the real reason why you got your name. You name me Jesus after Earl and Monroe, not Jesus in the Bible? Not Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of North Philadelphia. Jesus of the playgrounds. That's the truth, son. The way he dish, the way he was, you know, he's spinning.

You know how you do. The way he uses the footage, Denzel's performance. of it, like the scenery of Coney Island, like, I just fucking love that scene. And then the one-on-one game's unbelievable. And we'll go into it.

We do rewatchful. That's like one of the best sports movies scenes ever. It's probably for me in the all-time pantheon. It's like probably in the top five for me. Do you know the specific thing about the Earl Monroe thing as well is spikes right net? And

he's, you can always tell when a writer is writing from something that they've directly experienced. They're reading their own shit. They're writing that he goes, you know, they gave him this and then he came to the Knicks. The Knicks put the shackles on him. Yeah. Somewhere

a teenage Spike Lee or younger Spike Lee was watching Earl Monroe with the Knicks and going, man, that's not how he play. Like, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so that inspiration to kind of put that into that scene. And the scene is so important because we now know that Jesus is wrong about why he has the name that he has.

Yeah. Remember, he hates the name. He hates the name. He's wrong about why he's named this way. And this is something that a father would normally get to tell his son, but he was incarcerated, so he couldn't tell him. So it's just a powerful scene in that Jake has finally, he's actually fathering him. Yeah. Like, just on accident, just when your dad tells you about the things that he loves, and he asks you to be.

a part of those. So he's actually parenting him on accident, but, you know. Well, it's also such a great, this guy clearly loves basketball at the highest level scene. I'm not even talking about Denzel. I'm talking Spike.

Oh, Spike, okay. Like, that is like, the touches in that scene, so he wrote a book called Best Seating the House. Did you read it? He wrote a book about how much you love basketball. My favorite writer of all time, Ralph Riley Ghost wrote that story.

Yeah, yeah. And that book, that's basically here are my basketball chops. And he has real chops. And it's not just that he sat courtside of the next thing. This guy fucking loves hoops. And that scene came from like real love for the sport, which I think that's why I love it. I love that scene because I think there's just an overall big message.

There's so many different elements in that scene. I think that only Spike could bring together, right? Because he's talking about Earl Monroe. But there's also within that he says, you know, I named you Jesus? Because of Earl Monroe, they called him Jesus. But then the white media tried to call him. called him black Jesus. And what he's really saying is white media was trying to take the humanity of a person

that we built up and just put him in a box. That's one part of it. And then it's two people. You kind of finally see that they are really father and son in that moment, right? That they are really, there's even subtle touches of where they touch their nose at the same time. They do that throughout the movie. That's really well done. Right.

And then there's that part. There is, you know, give this to my daughter. he's really trying to the reason why I love it so much is because it gets them, brings them back together and also on top of that it's probably the best recruiting pitch that

Jesus gets all all booby right? Because at the end he's like I want you to go to big state and this is why and it's just a really compelling scene also it's in Coney Island, it's in Brooklyn and Spike is at his best when he is writing about New York

and you see all those elements in that scene. Let's take a break. I'm going to talk about Denzel and Rayon. This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. Every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater. This is a place where everything feels cinematic.

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. All right, so we're in like an unbelievable Denzel run. This is like adult Denzel all of a sudden. Not that he was an adult Denzel before, but he starts aging into, you know, the training day part. Remember the Titans.

There's some real weight. His career, now we have a history. now we have a history with him. We have a 10-year history of all these different movies that he's been in. I think that for me, this is like one of his three or four best movies from a performance standpoint. I think he's fucking unbelievable in this movie. Now, I'm prone to argue pro. I love Denzel, but I just think for me it's top four.

So obviously, Glory, X, and then, you know, there are sort of, he's great in everything, but there are sort of other. It's surprising to me that this is not top of. of mind to me when I rewatched it in terms of performances. Because in terms of going to the gutter of a character, like the guts of a character, and just like being as vulnerable on screen as one can be, this might be the role for him for that. Like, Denzel has, does a lot of things well on screen, but you don't see a ton of vulnerability from him a lot of times. Like, he, he's playing a lot of things.

character that's almost grounded in strength. This character from the beginning has to give so much. And he does such a great job in humbly giving to whoever he's in the scene with, be it his daughter, be it the police, be it the Bill of Jojojovich character when he first meets her. He's there's a, he's grappling with who he thinks he is, but who he has to be to get this job done. He can't just tell anyone anything. He always has to soft pedal getting into it.

Well, it's also Denzel character karaoke. Because, like, the playground scene when he's drinking, when he's playing with his younger son, that's like Training Day, Denzel. The drunker Denzel is, like, Flight Denzel. There's also Training Day Denzel when he, when Denzel meets Lala's, like, brother-boyfriend. Right. And he just gets him in that. Yeah, that's almost like Man on Fire, Denzel. That's amazing.

He's grabbing all these. Then there's Remember the Titan inspirational Denzel. I think this is foreshadowed Denzel, right? Because there's so many different movies where he's kind of like trying shit out. Yeah. He's really like... This one, he's just doing everything all at the same time. And also what I do like about this, Denzel, and I think that he kind of had to be this because

Ray Allen was the star of this and was not a experience actor. In a lot of ways, he had to be 18 LeBron, where he is the guy that is... I'm scoring, but I'm also dishing. I have to be everything. at this point. I have to up my game. Instead of being, I mean, you always say this, Denzel gives you 35 every night,

but he had to get you 45 and 15 during this, just because of. Well, he also has to pull off the basketball scenes, which, by the way, if those scenes don't work, the movie doesn't work. Yeah. All the different ones, him shooting in the prison in the beginning,

him kind of messing around. I feel like Denzel had a point to prove in this movie that I can play basketball. Oh, my God. I was on the Ford of, I was on the Ford of JV's. This is legendary. Yeah, I got the stories from Spike and from Denzel.

Yeah, this is legendary. Yeah, like he wasn't supposed to score in the scene. And he put up, it was like five to two Denzel at one point in round. I was fucking pissed. He went off script. Yeah. I love that Denzel played the game of his life on TV. He banks three shots.

He banks like a 20 footer at one point. Like, if Jordan Poole did that, we'd be like, oh, that was a misfired. But it seems like that was Denzel's. Hey, man, come on. I'm sorry to bring in Jordan Poole on this. But it's. But it seems like that was Denzel shot, like the bank shot off the bottom part of the backboard

right above the rim? He had the high release Woody Harrelson. I loved it. He was good. Look. Like legitimately good at basketball. You bought, and he, you know, here's the thing of what happens in these movies.

Like, we watch sports all the time. We know how athletes move. Right. That's why Woody Harrelson's so important in white men can jump. He looks like a basketball. Right. Like if you're, and I love the show, Shout out to my man, Spencer.

When you watch All-American, you can tell that they're not really athletes, right? And it's, All-Americans are great show. I watch all the time. But you can see the way they run. Nobody's hip's fluid. Nobody, but when Denzel's on the court. Like my son Ben Simmons, you know, like, that's a fucking athlete. Hey, I mean, to be honest, I mean, Ben got, I mean, y'all, Van's going to be, like,

a whole little bit. No, Ben can play. Like, he's a good football player. So I went to the game. But what I'm saying is, like, Denzel's moving around the court, and he looks Like so even when he's teaching his son, when he's teaching him, he's down in his stance. You don't have to buy it. It's like there.

He's moving like this. There's a fluidity to it. That was a big thing for Spike in this movie, right? He was to the point, not just Denzel because like it was a, I think Denzel could get this movie even if we couldn't hoop because that's just how good fucking Denzel is, right? But that was a, that was a more of a thing that Spike wanted to have. He was willing to sacrifice the acting chops of basketball players in order to get a basketball type movie. They got Travis Best in there. He has Ray Allen.

That's why the fucking, the first basketball scene of the whole movie is so good because they're actually playing basketball. And this was coming off the eight-foot rim era. Yeah. Above the rim, a movie we love. But let's be honest, they cheat with the rims. All these movies cheated with the rims. You knew Spike was never doing that. There was never going to be an Edward Norton reverse jam to end the game against the race.

What was that game? What you're talking about? The American History X. Oh, shit. Yeah, American History. Remember he ends it with the reverse. dunk in traffic. It's like, no, come on.

Spike was never doing anything. Spike knew, and this is what he said. He said, I'm not trying to go back to the NBA games. They're going to give me shit if it's not real. Yeah. Now, in the tradeoff is that you have to believe that John Wallace, Walter McCarty, and Travis Best are in high school. Yeah.

So, I mean, so you know what I mean? So there's a thing. Or Hill Harper was like 31 where they made this. The tradeoff is that you have to believe that those guys on high school. You think about, and people might not remember these, not because they don't remember those players, but you think about a high school team who started five was Travis Best, Walter McCarty, and then John Wallace and Ray Allen.

What? Yeah. So that is, there was a tradeoff. Not now, look at it now. I'm looking at them, I'm like, you know, obviously these guys were in high school. There was an authenticity thing that Blue Chips tapped into. Of course.

Because Blue Chips just, they just filmed all that college, but they got real players. and William Freakin really cared about he just had them run all day and they were just real games they seemed like real games the coaches treat them Who's the white boy to play Ricky Roe?

What was his name? Matt Nover. Matt Nover, yeah, Matt Nover. These are all real players. Yeah, because in the 80s, you know, they cared, in the 70s they cared way less about the authenticity. So you knew Spike was going to get that part

but you're still casting an NBA players, this lead guy who's having multiple key dramatic scenes and is going against Denzel, one of the best actors the last 35 years, I think Ray Allen did really well. He did. Ray Allen did really well, especially, and I don't want to, like, jump the gun on the recasting counts.

But if you look at the alternatives, I don't believe any of the alternatives to Ray Allen could have pulled off of Ray Allen. It's an incredible casting what ifs. I can't wait to get to it. Well, I'll tell you this. But don't you think, like, there's a vibe to his acting that I actually, like, bought? Well, there's a maturity to him as a person that I can really, see, especially at that age, where, and we're going to get to the casting counts in a second, but as opposed to the field, I think his maturity really comes through in the role because

he has to be mature as Jesus' shuttle's worth. He has to be above the fray when all these things are simultaneously happening to him. And I think that that's why it was so good because he brought that maturity to the character. I remember, never, ever, ever overlook the discount. When he's in the role, we don't have to be able to be. expect. Remember we talked about this before? Like when Muhammad Ali shows up on good times and he just delivers the line

and everybody goes crazy. In your mind, you're going, hey, that's Muhammad Ali. Yeah. So if he can just get it out on time and hit his mark, it's cool. Ray Allen, with the discount, actually delivers a competent performance.

It was not even just competent. It was solid. It was solid. It wasn't great. It was solid. It was solid. Yeah, for somebody, for a new actor and for an athlete, he delivers a competent performance. I still have Bernard King and Fast Break number one for most natural actor. I thought Penny Hardaway and Blue Chips was really good. It's really good. And Ray Allen, for the most part, this goes badly.

Can I give you one that's like a little slept on? Can I give you Allen Houston and black and white, the James Tobin movie? That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a... Not a movie that bounces around on cable that often. It's a tough one. Mike Tyson's in that one, too.

Yeah, he is. He gets fucking mad in that movie. There's a scene between Mike Tyson and Robert Donnie Jr. That's really tough. But no, like... Eddie has a couple good ones. Rick Fox is good in Eddie. Rick Fox is an actor, though.

He's just good. He wasn't a real actor in the mid-90s, though. Well, he was trying to get it. Malik Salee was good in Eddie. Oh, I don't remember. There's some stuff, but... The one thing that's important to remember now, 25 years later, Ray Allen's like way more famous.

Like he was on the fucking Miami Heat team. He made the greatest shot in the history of the NBA. He was on the KG Celtics. He was on a really fun Bucks team. At this point in 98, we knew him from Yukon, but there was a ton of good college basketball players at the time. He was a top six pick.

But he was on Milwaukee. It wasn't like he wasn't that famous. He was famous, but he wasn't famous. If you like basketball, you knew Ray Allen, but if you were like, if you were casual, you were like, it was fine?

Chris Weber was in jailing those guys were way more famous. Who's a cop right now that Ray Allen would have been back then? Like who's somebody in the NBA that you think Ray Allen was? You know, I would... Like, Donovan Mitchell? I was going to do that for probably in answerable questions, but I'm happy to do it now. No, it's somebody who's first couple years in the league. Could he be Chris Middleton?

No, it's somebody who's like 22, 23 range who's not on a famous team. But is a legit... You know what it is? It's like Kate Cunningham. Okay, Kate Cunningham. Really? Yeah. But, I mean, but Kate Cunningham, like, nobody cared about college basketball.

When Realon was in college basketball, like, he had games against Iverson. Like, he was... That's what I'm saying, though. He was more famous because he was... College basketball was a much bigger deal then. Yeah. And he was... So maybe it's somebody a little older.

He was on Yukon, going against Iverson. And he was a... He was... Like, he wasn't as famous as Trey Young right now. No, he wasn't his famous as Tray Young. Is he 2011? Is he 2011? no because Clay Thompson wasn't that famous

I don't know yeah this is a good one for the it's a good one that's a good one that's not bad that's not bad that's not bad that's not bad at all way to put on for the youngings bro but what's funny is ever since this movie Ray Allen takes this different kind of stature in the league

because this movie even though it didn't make a ton of money it was kind of a thing and then it was super rewatchable was always on and it was like Jesus and then he kind of transcended that And he became Ray Allen. And it was like, oh, wait, is this guy as good as Reggie Miller? And then it's like, oh, he's actually better than Reggie Miller. Oh, he's on the KG Celtics.

Oh, my God. He's one of the most clutch player. And it just kind of kept escalating. Better than Reggie Miller. Oh, he's 100% unquestionably. Unquestionably. Better career. A better career for sure.

Better big game performances. Huh. Interesting. So Spike Lee, this was the first film he ever made that opened number one at the U.S. box office. even though it didn't make its money back. It was the first movie he made that he wrote and directed that he was not in

in any way, shape, or form. It came out two months before Michael Jordan retired. And I did want to quickly put this in context just in that late 90s basketball scene, which was a really both fun time for basketball but also kind of a dangerous time. This was that too much too fast too soon era. This was when the contracts were going nuts.

We're about to have a lockout. MJ is about to retire. College basketball is heading into this weird place where you could feel something's changing. The KG era has come in with the guys just jumping in right from the high school. Trace McGrady Kobe. Trace McGrady. All that stuff's happening.

The slam magazine era starting. The internet's starting. But the guys are also making a ton of money. They're making mistakes. Everybody is super critical about this, that, the other thing. And this movie kind of comes up. So when I was watching it, Like, even watching the cameos, it may be nostalgic.

Because this was a really fun time to be a basketball fan. What basketball wasn't as big, I don't feel like, is now from like a 24-7 cycle. It was a little more underground. But it was really flawed and fun ways. Which parts of basketball you feel like were underground? Because post-jordan, the league was, you know, totally different. But they were, I think...

Like, here's how it was underground. People weren't having a lot of, like, would you rather have Ray Allen or Alan Iverson conversations? Like the whole science of how we talk about basketball did not really exist yet. We were arguing about Jordan. Yeah. But it was now, nobody would sit around for five hours

arguing about Malone or Barclay on a radio show. I feel like, and I was young, obviously, when that happened, it felt like you guys had a lot more consensus of who you guys thought were going to be the best player in the game. And that's a little nuance of like, you could, everybody during that era, Jordan's the best, right? or and now it's like, is he,

is LeBron the best? Is he the best player in the league? It was way simpler. It was like, Shaq's not the, Shaq can't be considered because he hasn't won the title yet. Yeah,

it was a lot of, that would be it. That was the dry back then. It was more cut and dry because Jordan was clearly the best player in the league. Yeah. You know what I mean?

There wasn't really a sufficient. But we also had, we grew into the guys in a way that we don't now. Probably. Because of the college where, like Ray Allen, I watched him at Yukon for,

I think he was there three years. It might have been too, but I felt like I had a little bit of a history. Already knew his game. Yeah. One thing I got... In big games that were fun to watch. One thing I see from you guys' era that I wish we had more.

I wish we had more of a connection to the players that we watch on a day-to-day basis, right? Because, like, we don't really get a chance to see these guys grow up. We do. We see it on social and everything now, but, like, we really don't get their... It's their control. It's state propaganda now, right? Whereas back then, it's like, you could really... could see their highs and their lows.

You could see their flaws. And that made you love them more. But there was also way more mystery. I was about to say, we didn't know nothing. Like, I ever said, all I knew is he went to jail and he was at Georgetown. I didn't even know that. That's it. My brother had to tell me that.

Because remember, my brother was like, you don't remember when they went to talk to Iverson when he was, that was on the news or whatever? I was like, dog, I did not see that. By the time I heard about Alan Iverson, he was at Georgetown. Now, I'd have known about Alan Iverson when he was in the 10th grade at this point. 10th grade, it would have been like seventh grade.

By the time I heard about Iverson, he was at Georgetown. Like he plays football and basketball. He was more than new stuff. I was in college. I was like, Iverson was all-state football. I'm like,

what? Yeah. No, no, he was Michael Vick before Vick. Yeah, so I think there's just way more mystery and discovery back in the late 90s.

In a good way. Players fighting at practice, we never heard about it. Like all there were, we heard, but it was different. We didn't get it in real time. They weren't live tweeting

a four different. A fight. And during practice? Think about now. If they were making this movie now and just the casting of the Jesus character, we would have known every piece of it. Right.

Would have been like, Trey Young wanted to do it, but clutch wouldn't let him. So they ended up, they went to John Moran, but he could, we would know the whole backstory. And I think it would ruin a movie,

honestly. I think we'd have too much knowledge of all the back story. You just, there was a different way that the players could conduct themselves in a time. You mean they could be in scenes

with porn stars and a fucking spike movie and nobody would judge them. Can you imagine any player doing that now? You know what the wild... He's in three sex scenes in this movie. Nobody would do that now. It's funny because I watch...

Don't actually why, but I watch the latest space jam with LeBron. And there's no... There's like... He, like, has a wife in that movie, and there's, like, no chemistry whatsoever. And then you go watch he got gay and he's like... Right. He's like, like, Brayotte's fucking porn stars, and he's like cursing. Which was the biggest thing for me as a young kid, because it was like,

I never heard an NBA player curse at that point in time. And to hear, like, Ray Allen just be a character that curses and is like a normal human being was a wild thing to see. Yeah, I mean, when I was growing up, when these guys popped on TV shows or movies, it was a huge deal to me. Yeah. Like, Bill Russell came on The White Shadow. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. Or Cornbreadder on me, it was Keith Wilkes at the time, but Jamal Wilkes gets shot in that movie.

It was like, this guy of the Warriors. I have his basketball card. He got shot in the movie. movie. Now it's just, I don't know. I feel like everything was way more. It now there, so part of this is the fault of the media. If you have to put up, if you have more eyes, you have to be more cautious. We don't really get to know these players because anytime they do anything that doesn't jive with exactly the way we think that they should react, everybody freaks out. And it's just a difficult way for any celebrity to live their life. And

this chance that Ray Allen took in this movie, really before he was an established NBA star, right? Right, he was on his rookie contract. So before he's, that is a, there are people going to tell you, hey, what about the brand deals? What about this? What about this? Chloe Bailey just had a sex scene and swarmed.

She's a 24-year-old actress. She took a lot of shit for it. Yeah, she was a 24-year-old actress. She had a sex scene and swarmer. It was a cultural conversation. It's a time right then you do the movie, the movie works, whatever, whatever. You know what I'm saying?

So for him, it was something that really benefited his career in a major, major way, though. It helped him skip steps towards being like an NBA star. Best actor. Roberto Benini won for Life is Beautiful. Oh, what a fantastic movie. Tom Hanks, saving private Ryan, Ian McAllen, Gods and Monsters, Nick Nulte for Affliction, Edwin North American History X. No Denzel.

Yeah. Wasn't going to happen. I mean, look, first of all, have you seen all those movies? It's tough that Denzel didn't get nominated for the phone. He should have gotten nominated. By the way, this is an amazing movie year. It is. There's 10-11 people that, but it's just weird that we could all agree this is one of his best performances.

Right. And he's one of the best actors the last 40 years and did not get nominated. I'm just pointing it out. At post-glary, Denzel is, Denzel gets recognized from Malcolm X. Philadelphia was the big one for him for like oh now he is an A plus listar Oh you feel yeah I feel like Philadelphia was the one for him Because being on the same level as Hank's in a movie

That was like the final piece And then once it was like all right this guy now He's on the short list Anytime we mention the great actors He snagged a nom for that didn't he Philadelphia? I think he might have I think he might have too I don't remember Best original song

He got game not not in there. That's insane. Now that is insane. And I will say, and I know that now, it's like there's been so many years of hip hop and rap, but, like, it really was a huge deal that Public Enemy did the theme song for this in 1998.

Yeah. Also, one of those songs, obviously great raps, but, like, man, the beat on that song? It's a great song. It's phenomenal. You can just hear the instrumental and you're like, oh, I'm here. Yes, let's go who.

They have a longstanding relationship with Spike. Yeah. 25 million dollar budget made 22.4 million. Mm-hmm. Our guy Roger Ebert, 3.5 stars. Spike Lee brings the spirit of a poet to his films about everyday reality. He got gained in the story of the pressures on the nation's best high school basketball player. It could have been a greedy docu drama, but it's really more of a heartbreaker about a father and son.

This is his best film since Malcolm X, according to our guy, Raj. You know, I forgot to mention the Hoop Dreams thing with this, too. Hoop Dreams is 94. It becomes really the first famous documentary of the modern era. everybody sees it. It's treated like a real movie. And people know that story. And that kind of kick started the fascination with kids at this age with basketball.

And I do think that paved the way a little bit. It was like, oh, he got game. It's completely like coop dreams. I had zero consciousness. Of the hoop dreams part? No, no, no. The hoop dreams part, I had a massive, massive, that was huge. We talked about it earlier.

I said I had zero consciousness about the business of high school basketball until hoop dreams. Like, we were in high school, we played ball. Right. Some of us went to college. After college, some people went to the pros. We went to camps. We were doing all of this stuff.

It was just like, what you did. Hoop Dreams changed my purview for that. And also the scrutiny on KG and Kobe. And the fact that we were talking about high school basketball players and the decisions that they were going to make on a nationwide level. Like, the fact that it was, oh, Kobe Bryant's going to prom with Brandy. Kevin Garnett is the kid. that's coming, he's skipping, like we were having conversations about 17, 18-year-old kids.

The KG thing was amazing because he kept climbing in the draft and it seemed inconceivable. It's like, somebody's going to take this fucking guy. I didn't even go to college. Are these teams crazy? Right. And then it turned out he went too low in the draft. I think he went fifth. And I remember just watching Kevin McHale everywhere.

Just watching Kevin McHale talk about Kevin Garnett. I'm thinking, yo, this is crazy that that would happen. but Kevin McKell is telling everybody, like, this kid's ready, this kid's ready, this kid's ready. And those were some of the first times that I remember, like, interrogating any of that. And then the movie kind of crystallized it. Most rewatchable scene. I'll throw you one, and if I left anything, I'll tell me. All right, cool.

The first playground scene, which we talked about, how good the hoops was, right into the intros where we meet. How about these names? Lonnie Dubdux, Sip Rogers. Sip, Sip on this. Mance Littles and Booger Sykes Along with Jesus Shuttle Spurs There's just no like

Tommy Johnson They just go for it with every name Lonnie Dub Dukes I love that Lonnie Dukes needed a nickname Dub It's like Lonnie Dukes Is that good enough? Nah

What nickname could we go I like that scene I like watching the basketball and just I like how Spike filmed He knows what he's doing Next one I got is Jake Bys Air Jordan 13 18s.

One 50 with tax. Yeah, how much these calls, man? 139. One 50 with tax. One 50? Where the holes in? They're on the inside, though. You gotta lace them up that way.

Do that for me, man, right? Yeah, no problem, huh? All right, you know. Licks get rid of this person. 139. It's arthritis, you know, I got that arthritis thing. Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah. My brother's got the same arthritic condition. Do he? Only is his left ankle. It's going around here in Coney Island. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's contagious. I like the plague.

Yeah. My big homie has also has the same arthritic condition. My brother has the same arthritic condition. Going right into Jake meeting Jesus in the park and the goddamn you too. Yeah. That seems really good. I love when he buys the shoes that, even though it's short. We'll talk about those shoes later.

The Sports Center segment on Jesus is fun for 100 reasons. It is such a nostalgia trip toward ESPN in the late 90s. Yeah. Welcome everyone, I'm Robin Roberts. Welcome to Sports Center. Tonight, our feature is about a biblical player, the chosen one, the second coming, the resurrection, the salvation. ESPN gets religion as we follow a day in the life of Abraham Lincoln,

Sr. Jesus Shuttle's Work, the number one basketball prospect in the country, Jesus of Coney Island. Jesus is the best thing to happen to the game since the tennis shoe was invented. Jim Phelan from Mount St. Mary used to say he gives me a tingle. And I think that's Jesus that he just there He makes you excited to watch Jesus shows one.

He's the next phenol! He's awesome, baby, with a Caledalian. The guy's unbelievable. He's a Ptipvill, a prime dive player. He's the three us man. Super Sintillating sensational. He's a high riser.

His game has got everything you need. We get these coach, we get every relevant coach of the 90s in the scene and some NBA players and ends with MJ. It's literally everybody. Michael Joe.

Michael Joe. everyone showed up for Spike, man. This is Spike flexing, just on everybody. No question. This is like, fuck you, none of you guys can do this. Right. None of you guys can get this collection of people. He got fucking Jordan.

Jordan didn't do anything for anybody at any point. I just wanted, I guess this is unanswerable questions. But I just wanted, like, to see Spike's reaction when he got the clip of Jordan saying the title of the movie. Because Jordan is not, will not endorse Jesus Shuttle's worth, right? He's not talking about. You see Shaq saying, Jesus is this good. You see all the coach is saying it. And then you just ended with Mike just saying, and you know Spike is just saying, just say something.

Just say it. Just say it. I just wanted to see, like, how what Spike's reaction would be to that. It was such a fun flashback to when that era, Sports Center, when it just felt like SportsCenter was setting the narratives in so many different ways for how we talked about anything. And that's how we ended our night. Just seeing the graphics, just all of it. That's how we ended our night. You've seen like they're, they probably took, you know, they probably just ate, you know, Jesus just put his sister.

to sleep. That's going to a sports center. And that's the first, also the first instance where you see the father-son relationship subtly between Jesus and Jake, where they're both touching on their noses. They're both, like, analyzing the game the same way. Then we get a Robin Roberts cameo? Like, it was great. It was

awesome. Yeah, extended Robin Roberts. Shout out of Louisiana. Next one I have. I just wrote down, big time shows up with all the warnings. Drugs, alcohol, pussy, the leeches. Yeah, I almost forgot. They got that pussy.

I know you know how to spell that, don't you? I do. How you spell it? P-U-H-I-V. Oh, baby, fuck me hard. Look me at them, come. You think, because you got that ball skill. He's going up in the NBA, he's going to be immune.

How are you going to be immune to pussy? Pussy be talking to you, Jesus. Pussy be saying, Pussy be saying, come on there, Jesus, just a little taste. How are you going to be immune to that shit? You're so good. All that titty up in your face. All that good ass.

How are you going to be immune to that thigh? All those lips, all those hips, all those honey dips. Come on, man. Be real. That shit will fuck a nigger up quick. Deadly combination, you know what I'm saying? Plus a Marlowe cameo. Yep, he pops in there.

What else would you have wanted from that scene, Dan? That is the whole gamut for me. We've even fucking got Marlowe. Right, yeah. It's funny because I'm in the theater with my girl, and I recognize. I'm in the theater with Paulette Gray. My girlfriend at the time, shout out Paulette, she's a doctor

back in Louisiana now. And Heather Hunter pops on screen and I get excited. I want to go, oh, shit, it's and she's like, who are those who are, who's in the scene? I'm like, oh, I'm like nothing. That's like, I think, I feel like I might know one of them. I don't want, I can't say, oh, that's my favorite

born lady right there. That's in the scene. I thought that was... I thought that was that? I thought that was Jenny from Spotify. Was she on the thing? She might have been... Oh, I might have seen her on First Miss of Bel Air

or something like nothing. But no, first of all, Big Time is really everything you want from a three-minute Spikely cameo character. He just claims it. And by the way, give me that actor... Like DM waiters, it was just a rap. We don't know.

It's the Big Willie Award. Give that actor's name because I always forget this brother's name. I have it. He's in so many of... Spike's movies and this has done so much. His name is Roger Gunver Smith. Right.

Something like that. I'm probably mangling the middle name. Spike has obviously a crew that he works with. We're going to talk about one of these guys later on when I get to the That Guy Award. It's actually passed away quite tragically a couple of years ago. But that's a clear out and just go. Just a clear out. The way he films it is amazing.

It's awesome. It's awesome. amazing. I like when he gets mad at Bougar at one point and it seems like he's going to throw Bougar out of the car. You know what I'm saying? The whole scene is fucking perfect. Also, I think that he was, another reason why I was really good is because

I'm not sure if they added the extra sound in post, basically like people yelling at Jesus, Jesus. But the act, Big Willie just goes out and says, you see these motherfucker? He does a subtle acting thing where he he acknowledges something that's not in frame. And even if somebody's yelling, he just

makes that a part of the scene. It was amazing. It was amazing. Next one. I mean, this isn't the most fun scene to watch, but the angry Jake little Jesus game. All you got to do is make you mad and you'll give up, won't you? Because when you get mad, you can't play. Because when you get mad, you can't make a shot. Look at it. Come get it now. I ain't take it easy on you.

I told you didn't take it easy on me. Where you at, what? Jake just talked. Come on, get a guy a break, man. Come on, go strong, Jesus. How you cheat, man? Cheap. I'll tell me how to raise my son, man. I'm pushing me.

So I'm pushing me. So what? Go strong anyway. Shoot what you got. Hitting it to the kitchen incident. Most important scene in the movie. Yeah. The basketball game with the little kid is really, really, really, really great filmmaking and acting, too.

I say that that scene, even though it's not the most rewatchable scene, the basketball scene at the end. It really is, okay? That scene is by far the most important scene in the movie. That entire little sequence to me, where. When we go back and we see what the nature of Jake and Jesus' relationship was, how hard he pushed him. You realize that the gap is, there's a point that they never got to. He never got to understand tenderness with his father.

There wasn't a J. Morant, T. Morant, maybe I could have used the better example, where these guys are running around like, maybe I could use a better example, where these guys are running around like pals. They never really even got to experience that. And it was taken in such a tragic way that the movie literally doesn't make sense if that scene isn't in there. Well, it's interesting because I don't know about you, Van, but I saw a lot of my dad in that scene where that's the way that I'm not talking about the mother's scene necessarily, but that court scene when little Jesus is playing with Big Jake, where you see like, that's how Jake bonds with his son. Like maybe he doesn't find any other play where he finds any other things that he bonds with,

or anything that he relates to his son with. My dad had that with football. And you could see that with maybe he went a little overboard. My dad kind of went a little overboard and just with the practicing and how serious he took it. But you just see a black father trying to bond with his son and trying to use basketball as a tool to say, okay, we always have something that we have something in common. You really feel like it was that to me? was so obsessive about it, I get what you're saying.

I totally get what you're saying because I think that later on, Jake tries to remind Jesus of their bond, right? Yeah. But he was so obsessive about it, almost feels like he was feeling the hole. Well, both can be true. I think both can be true in that way, right? Maybe Jake didn't make it. But also, the reason why I still stick with that, that's how they made their bond and continue to, is because when he gets to, out of jail, what do they talk about?

What are they, what is the only part of that movie where they're actually in symmetry and they're actually cool? It's when they're talking about who or when they're talking about, you know, this is why I named you this. This is the legacy. This is what we're doing. And so that also plants a seed in that is like, hey, we are playing the game. This is how we come together.

And this is a communal moment when we're playing on the park or when we're watching it and I'm telling you plays. That's how they bond. When I watched the scene, I thought two things. Number one, and I've seen it before, but number one, you get a sense of the fact that Jake had his own issues, right? He's drinking out there while he's... If it's paper bag outside of night while you're playing basketball,

you might have a drinking problem. Not great. So he's drinking out there, right? And he isn't making any space for his son. Now, I play all kinds of sports with my... dad, I never once, once got a chance to be successful until I could actually impose my will on him. He gave me absolutely nothing.

He couldn't even play basketball. He was like a big bully out there. He's that old man strength, huh? But once I started hooping on him, I started talking to him and busing his ass, but he gave me nothing. Everything was earned. But like there's a, with Jake and Jesus. there's like a there's a rivalry almost like it's I know that it happens like my dad

how I'm trying to say there was there was something that there was a part of it where it seemed like he was treating his son like just another basketball player and I think the mother was a bridge to that right because even the guy that's watching them play is telling him goose who's watching them play is like Jake ease up he's like Jake like relax and he's going don't teach me don't tell me how to raise my son

most people that are in that situation where they're rearing someone that way and they're being hardest for a reason they grow up in the projects he needs his son to listen to him or he sees true greatness of him or maybe he does see true greatness in him but what you normally get

a chance to do is tailor that to also growing someone Jake never got a chance because his vices killed his wife that he never enjoyed the fruits of his labor. Also, one thing that's really subtle in that scene is like, that's the first,

when Jesus stands up to his dad, that's the first time he's, like, impressed with his son, right? He's like, you ain't ever going to be shit, and then he goes and looks. He's like, damn, he threw that hell of far out. You know, like, he's like, oh, okay, he does have heart. Yeah. We mentioned Jesus and Jake go for the walk,

the Earl Monroe speech. Love that. The tech you visit with, Rick Fox. I'm just going to lump it all together. Every person is just unbelievable. That's every time I come to the ringer, L.A. Spotify offices. It's Van just showing me around campus. It's Bill, like, when we go to the arena, it's Bill like, hey, this is why you should

move to L.A. Okay, audience, not all of it. There's a woman that's going to be like, that's how you and Logan get the, no, not all of it. Not all of it. We go to the arena and Bill is giving me a jersey. The college girls, like, obviously he's stereotyping and having fun with it, but It's just so funny that every college girl in this movie is basically... What I love about this, though.

What I love about this is something really subtle. Chick, played by Rick Fox, they're on the white girls, right? And the sisters walk by. Spike actually does something with his camera here. The black women never really come into focus. Yeah. Like he doesn't... So they're talking to the white girls.

The white girls come into focus. You can see them. You can see their faces, the whole nine. The black ladies never even... come into focus, really. You can only hear them, chick. That's tired, chick, chick, chick that ain't right. And you hear Rick Fox turn around and go, well, he says it later, right? Yeah, you hear Rick Fox turned around and go, yo, I'm gonna see y'all at church on Sunday. And then as they continue to walk, they literally leave the black women behind. Yeah. But you literally in the

background of the shot, you see the sisters that stop and watch them. as they walk away with white women, a complete deconstruction. Well, then he does the drive-by shooting after. Right. Where he says that there's too much work. They're too much work. These white girls that come over at one in the morning.

What about the sisters? What about them? I love them, but they make you work too hard, man. White girls over there, man. They do your dirty drawers, man. Wash them. Cook for you. Give your money, man.

Let you drive the benz-a-daddy-dadi ball. Oh, hell no. Hell, I'm telling you. They go an extra mile, man. You see Molly over there, man. You call her up at 4 in the morning, man. Get over here, let me spank you. Man, before you hang the phone,

and she's beating on the door. You ain't got to take your own bed out, man. Man, you lied. But, like, that scene, y'all always didn't need that because that scene is a complete commentary on what happened. It's so funny. Everything is great. As you moved up to socialists.

I don't know if we needed the two porn stars posing as TechU students, but sometimes Spike just likes to do shit. Spice like I'm going for it. Sometimes Spike just likes to do shit. Rick Fox, great job by him. The La La Showdown, which we talked about earlier, Lala has to look out for herself. Lala has to look out for herself. Lala played herself.

That's what she did. No thing I'll know about that DeAndre kid, even. Did you fuck him? So what? At least I can admit it. Oh, so it makes it all right that you admit it. No, I'm not saying it's all right. I'm just saying that there's a reason and I can at least admit it.

That don't mean shit. That don't mean shit. But you know what, if it don't matter, If it don't matter, then why are you stressing it? You're going to wake up a whole bunch of angry black folk. Who gives a fuck? I don't give a fuck. You know you're going to leave me.

This is going to last while you off in college for a year where this is going to last. You want me to live in La La Land? Is that what it is? How do you know, huh? Yeah. That was such an importance. I had that down too, but more because it's finally the realization that Jesus has of like not only is everyone out for me. Yeah.

But I need to leave. This is my point where I need to get out of this. Whatever this is, this is my time to go. Jesus, just turn pro. Also, that's why I thought I was convinced when I went to see this movie in 98, that that was going to happen, by the way, it was convinced. By the way, also, we had just saw that, like, Jesus just fucked the two ladies at TechU.

Yeah. So he wasn't a saint. Yeah, it's hard to. Yeah, he wasn't a saint. So another reason why that scene was good. The one-on-one game, which is going to be my choice for most re-watchable scene. I didn't teach you that though, did I? That's something I didn't teach you.

That's something you got to learn on your own. Give it up. Give it up. Oh, why are you doing? Oh, yeah. Who taught you that one? I think I'll go around again. Yeah.

It's your ball. I love the stories behind it. I love how he films it. The ending with Denzel, telling him to get the hatred out of your heart it's just like just fucking some of the best stuff Denzel's ever done him having to climb in the car

him seeing his dad get handcuffed but man you know the movies maybe leading toward it the first time you see it like are they gonna is he gonna play like you kind of know but you don't totally know

and then they blow it out I like that also I don't I read your piece and you were very I think you wrote something on page two about this movie I did it was it was it was it was it was you did it seemed like you hated

this movie it was just like I didn't know I was so frustrated by it one of the scenes it took me a while to get to the right spot with it but one of the scenes that you didn't like in that in this movie was the ending and I absolutely love the way this this movie ends the ball the ball the only thing I think that would have made it better

I can't I hate the ball I love the ball and I think would even would have made it better for me I'm all about it I'm locked in and I wish only thing The only thing that would have made it better is if Ray Allen would have shot it and it would have went in. I just, I wanted it so bad. In the movie.

He wanted the movie so bad. Like in the movie, man. It was great. It was awesome. The tension was there. Also, can we say this, though? Bro, Jake got played. Jake got played at the end of the movie, bro.

He does all this delivers. He had to get them to sign the thing. If he, yeah, Spike's not going to give you a happy ending. He's just, oh, he got played. Do you guys have a movie that you liked way more? later in your life than you did earlier in your life? Because I think this is probably number one for me. Oh, you know what?

The English patient. Now you like it? Now I dig it. I watched it maybe like a month and a half ago. I hated that movie because it was such a big deal when it came out. So I went and saw it and I was like, I don't, this is boring. It sucks. But I watched it.

It's really good. It's really good. Like, oh, I was a real kid. Was that 94? something like that. So I was a kid kid trying to watch that. But I watched it maybe like a month and a half ago. It was a really good movie.

Yeah. One of the things with this movie is just that nobody's come close to it. And I think when 25 years pass and so many different people have tried to tell versions of some version of this story. And none of them have pulled it off. Makes me think like, ah. Not only was it a good story. Like it foreshadowed a whole world that we didn't even know was coming. Right.

It's true. It was pressing it. Yeah. I will say I'll add one. more most rewatchable for saying we we cover all of them. Ned Beatty and Denzel the open where he's telling him there's so much going on in that scene.

Yeah. There's so much going on. It's like little stuff because all these kids just want to don't you figure out is your first introduction to Jake and you see that Jake is a hardcore disciplinarian that Jake cares about basketball in a really deep way. He's talking about the fundamentals of basketball. He's talking about all the kids want to do is dunk. The Ned Beatty says, well, I coach my son's team and I don't really have that problem.

It was, oh, well, you know, different kids. Yeah. Like, they know that whole thing where they set up that this is the world that is using Jake Shuttlesworth, a world that's removed from him. Like, it's kind of what's happening to Jake at that time is the same thing that's happening to Jesus, just like in a different way, being used by a system. to the ends of that system. Let's take a break.

We'll do what stage the best. This episode is brought to by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2%er.

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Sure. Guy has seven days to out of jail to try to convince his son to go to a school. You can say in his sentence. Denzel's his late 90s hair and just his look.

I like his little basketball outfit. Just all of it takes me to 1998 specifically. It's just very 1998. He looks like my man's stretched from NBA Street. A little bit. Denzel's jump shot is age the best for me.

I just like that old school. It's kind of coming from top of his head, a little bit behind. Lanzo and then brought it back. It finishes, right? It was great. Wait, one thing that I, we went back, I wanted to go, the rewatchable scene. My favorite part of the scene where the last scene is Denzel being so tired that he goes to reality says, I'm going to give you that. The greatest shooter involved in time at that point.

It's like, don't worry, I'm going to give you that top of the key. It's a 15-footer. I loved here and let me wet my beak and then him calling out the Godfather, too, Uncle Bubba. Yeah. So the He Got Game Air Jordan 13s, Ray Allen said later, it was great product placement when the movie came out.

Everybody's like, yo, Jesus got the new Jays on his feet because they'd already been out. That is probably why you got Michael Jordan to do that scene. Well, he had the spike connection.

He probably had the spike connection, but I'm saying, you know, you're going to show the shoe. It's a shoe commercial. Like we, that was a big deal, and that's age the best,

too. He got out, he went straight for the Jordans. You just know Jake Solid. Also, fun fact, they actually released those Jordans early to Spike Lee because they filmed it in 1997. Those Jays didn't come out to 98. What am I talking about?

Yeah, you're right. They've been cool since he was like, the second year of the league. What about doing? Now, the 13s were like one of the biggest ones, though. Yeah, they were. Yeah, it was his last year, everyone in the Bulls. Then this movie's coming out. It felt like they'd had the best marketing.

And I was the best color way. Yeah. young Ray Allen age is age the best young Rosaird Dawson Whatever come on now College basketball coach is still meaning something His age is the best Where these worst

And well you could put that there too But I just like seeing all these guys That I grew up with like John Thompson and Petino And Bobby Cremens and going on through All those guys who's still coached Patino Just Ricky Pee the Rick Tater Jim Boehlin

Dean Smith's dead Jim Bowham just retired He just retired yeah Nolan Richardson's gone but it was cool to see all the just all the faces in that montage and then all the stories behind

the game was supposed to be 11-0-0-0-10 and Denzel flipped the script on it. How do you think Ray Allen felt during that time? He's fucking pissed. You could look at his face.

If you watch the scene now? If you watch the scene now, there's a time, you know the part where Denzel goes around? Yeah, he does the circle. Randy goes... Ray Allen's not fucking enjoyed it. And then he turns to an NBA.

game player. He's looking at him and he's got a half smirk on his face because none of that is playing. I got Danzel to tell me the story when I did the pod with him and he just lit up like it was, you know, the guys had an unbelievable career. I think this was like one of the highlights of his life that he got five points up

to Afrayal and who was half his age. Any other what's age the best for you guys? We've hit a lot of stuff already. Not really. Okay. The Kid Cuddy Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. So when we meet Lala, that's when they kick in, he got game.

And when he's running, great scene, by the man. Fucking awesome. Big Cahuna Burger, where our best use of food and drink. I could give you Jim Browning and Nathan's hot dog because they had to work that in there. Or the bagged liquor bottle, they're in the angry pickup game. Like, it's actually a character in that scene. But the grilled cheese.

The grilled cheese? No, when he's ironing the grill cheese. The grill cheese is what I think. The grill cheese. And then he goes, he goes, y'all want some? Because I literally had never seen that before And then I asked my uncle's about He's like, yeah, I can teach you all that

I'm like, no, I'm never going to eat enough I'm okay Great shot, Gordo Either big time For the most cinematic shot Either the big time driving in the car Or I like Denzel at the cemetery When Spike pulls some Spike Lee stuff

Does the zoom away shot? I like when Jesus and Lala are making out in the circle wheel And you see the fireworks going on That's a great, that's a great cinematography. It's beautiful, by the way. It's beautiful, man. It's one of the best filmed movies that I think he's done.

I got to give the Tom Seismore. Action is the Juice. Best To-to-to-to-movement for a non-star to Ray Allen, who acted in multiple scenes with Denzel. He's a fucking basketball player. Right. And, like, not only just held his own, but, like, legitimately was there.

Because Denzel, I feel like just goes into scenes, like, I'm going to fucking kill you. Like, I'm going to kill you. Denzel does his best work with people who are, and actually real actors. Dakota Fanning was another one. She was like, what, nine? Because he actually shows compassion.

Where he actually has to, like, do the 2018 and LeBron. And like, oh, now I got to do more. The Butch's girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. I mean, the hooker, no question. Bill Jojovich. Every piece of that. The sex worker, Bill Jojovich. Sex worker, we're supposed to say now?

Protect sex workers. What's age the worst? Okay. College basketball being an important long-term choice in your life? That's just gone Probably not great Now you just be like Go to the pros man

What do you care Just go somewhere for six months Yeah Do G League now You know what I mean And then you're good What If you could have picked

I have this soundtrack Which still bothers me I just Remember we did above the rim And we talked about that soundtrack How fucking amazing it was There's an alternate universe Where Spike's just like

I'm gonna do this movie but I'm also going to lead the legacy of one of the great soundtracks of all time as part of the movie. He doesn't care. I know he doesn't care. But there is, when this movie comes out, there's this world.

You just want Rockefeller Records to EP a soundtrack. I mean, think all the people that could have dipped into it. You got all a bad boy. You got the Wu-Tang. You got a lot of stuff. BMX is coming on at that point. It's 98, so yeah. Mob deep.

You could have dipped back in. Yep, the whole deal. But it's not his. He wasn't going to do it. Spike, I mean, He was very stubborn about it. Yeah, Spike did his thing with PE, because, you know, even fight the power from before, but he didn't really embrace hip hop like you think that he would have?

Like, in terms of that, right? I think he embraced it culturally. I'm not saying, yeah, of course he embraced it culturally. But what I'm saying is like, Spike's music was very, it was, it was, there was a deep jazz base to all of this stuff. Well, because it's dad. Right, of course. and he used the Marcellus brothers and stuff like that. That was his way of making his statement, like, in a film.

There have been other, of course, there have been other times that he's, I think Prince was on the Girl Sixth soundtrack. So there's been other things, but I can't think of a movie from Spike, and maybe I could just be drawn a huge blank that had like a huge, huge hip-hop thing. I know Crooklyn had some, like a song that went with it or some stuff that went with it, but it kind of wasn't his thing. Oh, well, nope. What's the guy's name in this?

Cairn Copeland? Yeah. That's the opening scene and that's who he dips into. It's basically that and public enemy. The Ma M-M-IOS did. There was, most deaf and them did a song over there to M-M-M-I-Las for a bamboozle. But he never did like a wall-to-wall heavy hip-hop movie

that I can think of. Morewood's age the worst. Spike's tendency to have either the best possible actors or the worst possible actors with the in between. There's four terrible actors in this movie. Give it to me. The sleazy agent is awful.

But that's a bad actor. Wait, wait, wait, he's a bad actor. He's a bad actor. He literally gives one of the funniest things. I beg you guys all to stop this podcast, go run and watch Bambuzzled, and watch how off the fucking world that guy is as he is rapping in front of the studio audience during Bambuzzled, like going crazy. He can't act at all. I feel like he's got. he's Spikes like business manager or something

No he was like if you go look at this guy And you Google him He's he's really into private jets And like went to jail because of it Like he has like a bit of a past And also but he met Spike like in like a Knicks game Or something like that and he was just a fixture who could get things done Yeah it's just it was one of Spike's partners

But he definitely can't act But I just I love how stupid I'll give you Jesus's coach That guy was in the Sopranos Could have stepped up that one Jim Brown's partner? Oh, yeah, he kind of says it. He's bad.

The ending, would you have rather just had parole Denzel in the stands cheering on Jesus and Big State? Couldn't we have ended the movie that way? Or am I just a sep? You said I was corny for the reason why I like the current ending and you want him to just be. You want the multiverse pass across the jail? That's incredible talent. Yo, I'm going to be real with you, man. Sometimes Spike don't know how to end the movie.

Spike is the greatest, but sometimes Spike don't know how to end it. Like, the ending of the movie is absurd. It's so fucking great. It is great. You know why it was great, Logan? I love Spike. Most ever, I love Spike. You got to understand though.

You got to understand though. I love Spike. Spike is my favorite. I'm 18. When you were, when it came out, right? You were, like, I was a fucking child. I was like six years old. I love the Disney.

I love the Disney. Logan, did you like everything everywhere at once? I haven't seen her yet. Do you like multiverse movies? I didn't like Spitzelium, too. His generation likes to throw the ball in the ball bounces. Oh, the ball's back in another city. You just, I get it.

It's the ending the movie is absurd. What's aged the worst? Uncle Baba, not the character or the performance of Uncle Bubba, but just Uncle Bubba was creepy. I don't like that Jesus doesn't want to leave his sister alone with Uncle Bubba. I know. I know it works for the movie. No, I'm asking.

I just get upset when I see Uncle Buba. I miss that the first time, by the way. I only caught that last night when I watched it. He said that is Uncle Bubba. I might have her be in Uncle Bubba's house. Is that her? Yeah. I caught that.

That was some molesting stuff. Yeah. I had Uncle Bubba for like overacting award. Yeah. But we can talk about Uncle Bubba was terrible. Bill Nug. Uncle Bubba was. I like Bill Nogh was not good in this movie.

I didn't think he was not good. Ron Burgundy flew to wear best time for P Break. Just any scene with Milo Jovovich. But there's especially, there's an eight-minute scene from the 50-minute mark to the 58 minute mark that I would just... I also walk out during every Uncle Bubba scene. Like when he's in the car, driving him, I'm like,

you know, let's... Was there a better title for this movie? No way. No, I don't know. Best quote, Every great man, their downfall was because of a woman. Or, you're black, I'm white, this is green. The ancients would... One of the quotes that I like is from SIP

and just the way that Travis Best delivered this line when he goes, We're the rail splitters And nobody's fucking with us Oh, I love that It was great That was great Anyone have a Stephen A Smith

Hadest Take a word? Nah Nah No No I don't have one either Casting one-ups Here we go

Original Jesus choice Kobe Bryant Is that true? It's true He had a tough loss to Utah In the playoffs And spring of 97 And decided he won

wanted to spend the summer working at basketball getting stronger. Mamba mentality. Kobe would not have been good in this movie. I disagree. Can we talk it out? No, let's talk it out. I think you would have been great. I don't think Kobe would have been great.

Craig, you take this one. No, no, no, hold on, Craig. I got it. One second. There is actually a comparable time. Like, there's actually a comparable performance. If you see, Kobe did act during that time. It was terrible.

Sister sister. He did a sister-sister came a little. It was so bad. Spike Lee to record. Mike Lee, yeah. No, I don't think this would have been a good... It wouldn't have been a good one. Craig.

What do you think, Craig? I just think Kobe has, like, a depth to him and can tap into a lot more than Ray Allen. Ray Allen's just kind of... I don't think of... It's more interesting with Kobe just because it's closer to Kobe's story than it was closer to Ray Allen's story. To me. I don't think... And I think he was younger, too.

He would have been... He would have been 19 filming this movie, right? Also, I think that... And it's Kobe Bryant. Also, I think that there's a competitive... and a surliness and a sulky assholeness. He's my favorite athlete ever, sulky assholeseness to Kobe

that would have really, really ratcheted it up the animus between Jake and Jesus. There's a 32% chance him and spike ate each other, and he quits the movie or gets fired. I think that, I think, I don't think Kobe could have made this work simply because I don't think that,

when we talked about the maturity aspect of Ray Allen and why that suited him in this role. I didn't think at the time when Kobe would have gotten this role that he had that, because I don't think he was assured of himself. Very fair point. Until I don't think he was sure of himself, honestly, until. Nah, man. It took a while.

I don't think that he had the maturity level at that point, and he was there in the way that Ray Allen was to take on a multifaceted character like that. That's actually a good point. But I will say this. He showed that he had the maturity by tapping into the Mamba mentality and working on his guy. game rather than going into Hollywood. Doesn't get told enough.

And another point to that? I don't need your movie. I need to work on my turnaround. 30,000 points, five championships. And another point to that, Kobe didn't grow up in that type of environment. And the environment that Jesus was. It would be funny if he's like, the story doesn't resonate with me, Spike. Yeah. But his whole, you go read back on Kobe, he was trying to relate to the person that

Jesus was as a character in that point. And at 18 years old, I don't think you could have tapped into that. So Stefan Marbury wouldn't audition because he felt like he said, quote, I just didn't feel that I needed an audition to be me because I knew the movie was about me. He was pissed. He felt like, and it's pretty clear that Spike took a lot of Stefan Marbury's story. He didn't want to do it unless Garnett was in it. Well, then KG refused to be in it too because they wanted to audition him.

Okay. There's a Washington Post story that published the day the movie came out that said Tracy McGrady auditioned. Interesting. but was Judge true reserved for the part, not surprising. Also too tall. There's conflicting Alan Iverson stuff about... I heard about that too.

That they wanted him. He didn't audition. That he did audition. He seemed distracted, whatever. And then they ended up doing Rayan. He really wanted somebody who looked like he was 18. So Rayallin still looked pretty young at that point. It helps to me that Jesus is bigger than his dad.

Yeah. It helps to me that he, that literally he grows to examine. exactly where Jake wanted them to be. That might sound stupid that, what was Ray Allen, out of 6, 6, 7, something like that. Like, if Alan Iverson's right there,

it still might look like the power transfer. It's like Travis Best. Has it quite happened. They're the same height. You know what I mean? I just want to say that if they had gotten Alan Iverson in 1997 to be Jesus Sheldsworth,

that would have been one of the most amazing what-if movies ever. I'd be honest with you. Like, he might have been amazing. I'd be real with you. I think if Alan Iverson does the movie, in a large way. Changes his life?

Yeah, I do. I think that there's another version of Alan Iverson's career where he in some way dials it back just a touch. And maybe all the...

Because he gets love from the movie? Maybe so, you know what I mean? There's another version where he shows up late to the set like 12 of the 23 days. Or he gets fired the second day. Spike is done with him. Love AI.

But yeah, I think... I think the favorite athlete ever. I think that from a charisma slash kind of intensity standpoint, he might have been interesting. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek Partridge overacting word. They knew and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady. I come in here.

I give these things to you. Give it all you got. Give it all you got. I treated you like a son. You fucking stand me in the heart. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.

Radio Rahim. I mean. Yeah. It's a tough one for our guy, Bill Nunn. Wait a minute. It is a tough one for Bill Nunn. He dials it up in every scene. You have to throw Jim Brown in there, too.

That was... It hurts, but you're right. You have to throw Jim Brown in there too. You have to. I didn't want to, but he was in my Dion Waiters. Jim Brown was in my Dionne Waiters. Best that guy award, big time. Roger Gunverer Smith, whatever his name is.

He is the... I see that dude in anything. I'm like, big time! You know who I'm going with? I'm going with the guy I was telling you guys about earlier. Oh, the agent? No. No.

Thomas Jefferson Bird, who played Sweetness, the Pimp. Oh. Who's in a bunch of Spice movies. Remember, he played a terrifying character in Clockers. Unfortunately, he was killed a couple of years ago. Actually, murdered in Atlanta. I have, I'm going to add to that. I have one that you have not brought up.

Leonard Roberts, who was Sean and Drumline. Oh, yeah. He was in Buffy the Vampire. He plays DeAndre. He plays the big brother. Oh, that's a good that guy. He's always in, I don't even know what his name is. I literally am on his Wikipedia now because I had to find out his name.

DeAndre. He's always, he was, he's always in everything. Dionne Waiter's Award. I'm only giving you three choices. You can have Rick Fox. You can have big time. You can have Chacey Lane and Jill Kelly together. Oh, do you fuck me up?

Or I'll give you as a bonus that Air Jordan's salesman. who throws together a really nice, like, 55 seconds. All right, so... Big Time's going to win, but what's talking out? This was obviously going to be Big Times Award, and I thought about Rick Fox. But if you're giving me the opportunity to pick Jill Kelly and Chasing Lane...

You can have them as a combo. That works, and I think we should change the name of the award. You give me... Because they, all the rest of these scenes we're talking about are... All the rest of these players, this is one of the most memorable scenes in movie history.

Porn stars were way more famous back then. They just were. Everybody knew all the famous porn stars. We just did. Also, like, great, like, great picture for a shirt. Like, I've seen so many shirts where there's a shirt where, I'm sure all of our listeners will know this, where there's Jesus in the middle, and then has both of the porn stars licking his ear. Have you ever seen that one?

It's basically a screenshot. You know what else is funny about it? Because Ray Allen got caught in one of the first Twitter scandals because he DM, he DM the girl. something really, really like 10 out of 10 X-rated, but tweeted it over DM'd it. Right. And then it was like, ah, my Twitter got hacked. And it was like one of the first great Twitter moments.

And it's like, you could argue this shoot corrupted them that one day. I just wonder, I remember watching it and I'm in such a bad place because I'm with my girl and I know all these people and I'm excited to see them. Yeah. I'm thinking it's not just that I'm like I'm, like I'm. full on horny, I think, oh, good for Chase Elaine and Jill Kelly. Right. I'm like, I'm happy for them. Oh, okay. And these are people who have supported their career for like a long.

Look at them getting things. You really supported them because you had to like do a lot to get horn back in the day. Let me tell you something. Real quick, clear out. This is why the kids now don't understand what it's like. For me to get it, I had to become a spy. Yep. I had to be like a, like a stealth assassin. Either I had to like, it was sneak.

It was shame. Yep. Sometimes I have to go to the video store, pretend to be my father. Go be in the cowboy doors? Yeah, like, pretend to be like, it's Van Lathen, it's Van Lathen, Van Lathen, Van Lathen, Senior. I'm like, you're not Van, I know who your dad is. Give me the tapes.

You know, like to hold it. Or you have to call and use your credit card and give your credit card number to somebody. Then they would send you. It was just bad. Where, like, it was just, you had to. Yeah, you don't understand. No, no, no, no. There was the end of that era that where you found it.

There was either at flea markets or you found it, like, your parents or your big uncle had a stash that you just randomly found. Oh shit. That's what it was. I'm older than both of you. I remember the scrambled porn era. Yeah. It was just a channel and it was just scrambled things.

And every once in a while, nipple would fly out. Like, hey, nipple. Oh, my God. Look at you. Beta Max. Recasting couch. How about this? What if I gave you John Tortoro, who plays the college coach in this as the high school coach?

Probably better. And I gave you Robert De Niro as the TechU coach. We go older, like a Dean Smith type. What about Al Pacino, man? Al Pacino. Somebody older with some weight just for the one scene. Just for the one scene. You pay a lot of money.

Make Tutoro, put him as the high school coach. Halfass internet research. There have been a lot of Ray-O and Spike Lee conversations about a de facto sequel. Has not happened. Spike's not a sequel guy. But it's not going to happen. Denzel said it's not going to happen. Has Spike ever made a sequel?

He's not a sequel guy. Rosario Dawson was 8. and still a virgin when she made this movie and said she didn't actually have sex until she was 20. That seems like a weird fact. That's why it's half asserting that research.

Opening credits, the song was John Henry. It's about a 19th century black folk hero and steel driver who, as the story goes. You had tell me the story of John Henry now? Well, I'm telling the audience. Took American labor capital to task.

He did. John Henry, the steel driving man, went up against the, he was driving the steel, right? The railroad steel, went up against a machine. And he won, but he died.

Interesting choice for your opening credit song from Spike. I think there's some stuff he's trying to say that one. Guy against a machine. Apex Mountain. God damn. We always argue about Denzel. This was not it.

We should have a whole pod where we just argue people's apex minds. Like seriously because... Like a spin-off pod? Yeah. What, like, Denzel's... We said Training Day for Denzel, I think. Because remember the Titans had been the same year. I guess it would have to be Training Day, but I guess it has to be, but you could...

He's the third... Was second black actor to win the best actor? I guess it would have to be, but like you... It's one of the biggest stars in the world? Yeah, but he doesn't get... He doesn't make 20 million for a film to like three or four years after that. But I think part of the- Also, there's a lot of argument that like that training day Oscar was like Kobe's 08 MVP where he's like it was it was a we didn't get you for this one so we'll get you for this. That's usually.

I guess, I guess, I guess you'd have to say. Rayall and Apex Mountain. It was until the, at least for me, until the greatest shot of all time. Realtyle made the greatest shot in the history of professional basketball. I'm going to say it was. Which shot are we talking about here? The shot when he single-hidden, they swung the title? I understand this.

A step back after the rebound? I understand. He stole the title from somebody? Popovich doesn't have Duncan in the game. Wow. He gets kicked out. I was watching live just like the rest of you guys. Really the greatest shot?

Really? Greatest. You know, it's the greatest shot of all time. It's swung a title. You know, it's this unquestionable Apex Mountain of this film. It's Travis Best. I had Travis. Travis Best.

I also had Walter McCarty and John Wallace Well John Wallace went to the final four Spike Lee no Chacey Lane and Joe Kelly Abs of fucking Lutely Yeah probably so Wait is it Apex Mountain for Abraham Lincoln High School basketball

I don't know enough about that Sebastian Tailfare probably play for them too Yeah A couple of people go crazy They like sorry New York I love you Sports Center Oh Probably not

Right no Probably yeah It's like 9790 Oh, no, that's the, for sports center, that's definitely the apex. Like, talking about that's Dan and Keith. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kilbourne gets the daily show off Sports Center.

If you have, if you look at the guys. Stu Scott's on the rise. Patrick Kilbourne. Yeah. Stuart Scott's coming. Is Keith still there? They're able to throw a montage and he got game. I'm going to say yes.

Also, I love what they said it was like a day in the life of Jesus. And it was like, no, it's not. This is just Spike Lee. Right. It's flexing. Yeah, it was definitely not a typical Bristol segment. Air Jordan. I don't know quite enough about Air Jordans,

but I think you could make a case. No, Apex Mountain for Air Jordans at a Jordan 11th, bar none. All right, make the case, why? Because it's the best basketball shoe of all time. Those are the patent leather ones, right? Yeah, patent leather ones, and also it was during a 72 and 10 year.

It was like the perfect year. Okay, so that's, because I was going to say, last MJ year with this movie coming out is pretty hard to beat. That's the greatest basketball shoe of all time. Okay. How about old school Brooklyn

before everybody moved there? Pre-gentrified Brooklyn? Don't know shit about it. Yeah, I don't know either. It's throwing out there. What do you have for best racehorse name? What about a racehorse called He Got Game? He Got Game is a good railroads.

Jesus. Jesus Shutterworth? Jesus Shuttlesworth is a great rayhorn. Lala Benita. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. Picking Nits. Bougar.

What was that guy, Lonnie Dubdux? Monty Dubdux Some great race I'm a richard Big time Big time Oh big time's good That's good one

Yeah big time Yeah I'd want to bet on big time That's the winner Picking Nitz So they have all the gratuitous Celebrity cameos And all the coaches Talking about the recruits

You're just literally not allowed to do that No coaches allowed to discuss A high school player In any forum for any reason That segment though Bill Was literally for Spike League I get it It was just for him

For picking Nits That's just not allowed you would get fine from the NCAA. I actually didn't even think about that. That's true. Lala flirting in the pool with DeAndre. That's my picking thing. What the fuck? Like that, when I saw that, I'm like, come on, man.

There's no fuck. She would have to be so dense or just, they would have to have some different structure in their relationship. I don't know why I never caught this before when I was watching a movie. He walks out of the thing and she's in the pool with the guy. Like, what the fuck? fuck is going and Jesus kind of just looks and keeps it and then goes back to the aging I'm like what the fuck is going on?

I'm leaving I'm leaving the house fuck what the hell? What the hell? I'm like yo what the fuck is going on in the pool? Also another picking that I have is they were I felt like Spike revealed Lala like her extracurricular activities way too fast like it's in the

like it's very clear that she is fucking him over. Yeah. In the beginning when like she makes the who calls it one in the morning to be like hey just want to make sure that you're coming to like Yeah that was it It's just weird. I wish that they could have just,

I wish it was more of a surprise that La La La was cheating on them. Are we sure Jesus could live alone with his sister without both of them being thrown in a foster home? Or is there a certain age? Not if somebody's covering for him. Yeah, okay. The mom dying. That's a huge fucking myth to pick. Yeah.

Are you going to die from that? Your head hits the side of the oven? You could die. No. I thought the same thing. Yeah. What if you hit that in seems? But they need to make it not bad enough.

What if you hit the oven and then you break your neck? I don't know. Here's another thing, though. She just didn't seem violent enough to actually, you're going to die? You know, it's funny? It's funny that Bill wants a version of this movie where Jake shows what's... A more violent? Stans over her with a frying pan.

No, just... She kind of fell. She's the side of the oven. And it's like, oh, my God, mom's dead. I guess it could happen. It would have to be a very perfect, like, fall for it to happen. She's immediately dead? She's just...

He just immediately died. Second. Just ride around, nothing. Of all the people that we know that, like, slipped in the shower and passed away, like, it could happen, right? I don't know. What the fuck? I feel like I've personally had five worst falls in that.

In college. He didn't even push her down the stairs. I know they had to make it so that we couldn't totally hate Jake, but. Well, really? Also, no, like, no, here's another thing, though. And it's not like he pushed her knowingly pushed her. It wasn't like he's like, get off of me, pushed her. He looked at her and gave her two to the chest and just pushed her into the thing.

I'm not going to lie. I think 15 for that is fucking terrible. I don't think that's 15. I don't think you. I had that an unanswerable question, but let's do it now. That's a nit. More or less. Way less.

Yeah. Way less. Also, couldn't you explain it off better? Yeah, like way less. I don't know. I don't, if Jake doesn't If Jake doesn't have a history If Jake, first of all

They use the term murder several times Yeah Like if Jake doesn't have a history He really, that's an accident Like you know what I'm saying He's like he's in the middle Of doing something with his son She turns around, he pushes her

Like she dies He's like no I was just trying to beat my son I wasn't trying to murder my wife Jake had a public defender bro I'm telling you straight up That's 15 Craig, you're for it. Craig, you want them to go.

Yeah, I felt like involuntary manslaughter. It's like three years. He's out in 18 months. Players aren't allowed to visit a college one week before the signing deadline. That's just obvious to pick. And then I just feel in the climate where we were in 1997, 98, with KG and Kobe and Tracy McGready, how good they're saying Jesus was. There's no fucking way he doesn't go.

pro. Yeah. Like there's no way. He has no money. He's going to go to where you end? Big state for a year. He's got to get,

bring his sister, get her, you know, an apartment so she can go to school so he can go to school for a year and then turn pro. Get the fuck out of here. He's going,

he's going pro. Let's think about. Pro is in the air. K.G. Kobe T. Mack. But remember, it was the reason the hook on that was that his mom wanted him

go to college. Right? In the movie, right? That's what she said. That's what she said. She said I don't really set up. Yeah, I don't feel like they sold that at all.

It's not like a lot of backstory about why his, like, mom wants him to get an education. They just kind of say it once. Oh, he said it. I know. Yeah, yeah. You don't really, I don't really believe it. I thought that he was going to go pro in the movie when I first saw the movie. I thought that that was going to be the thing that he wasn't going to go to any of them.

He was going to go. Is that a better ending? If he's just like, my final decision is I'm actually not going to go to college. I'm going pro. So this is the thing. It under kind of undermines the movie because he is sacrificing for his, he's doing something for his father. So what he really gets out of this,

what Jake and Jesus really get out of this is they get their reconnection. And that's really what. So then they don't let Jake out. And he's like, you know what? Actually, I thought about this more. Fuck this. I'm going pro.

Now, when that happened, if I was Jesus, when that happened, he got game two is Jesus sitting down on 2020, the governor told me that if I went to big state, they didn't let my father out. Oh, yeah. That's the start of the movie.

didn't fucking do it. You know what I mean? Hashtag free Jake. Oh no, they didn't have Twitter then. Well, they didn't have it. Well, like, we should start it now. It's like, you know what I'm saying? So that, so with that didn't happen?

Then I'm like, yeah, just leave school and go pro. Any other nitpicks? I do. I do have a nitpick. Let's hear it. Let's quarantine this prisoner when like no one has a mask on or anything. Like maybe that's just a 20-23 like we got here. That was weird.

That was just weird. Like, we can't have half the. prison gets sick. Yeah. But he's already breathed on seven of you? Yeah. Yeah, that's a weird one. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

I actually really would have enjoyed a sequel to this movie. And I think that it would have been a cool move for Spike. We could add older Ray Allen as like a retired NBA player. I don't feel like anybody's landed the plane yet on the retired NBA player. The closest was loving basketball, the Dennis Haysburg character. I don't think we could, I mean, it should be a sequel, but if there was a sequel, I wish it would have been like pre-internet. It would have a he-got game sequel.

It's going to get all the attention. Let's be honest. They would make it She-Got game, and it would be about his daughter. I think the sequel should be he had game. And it should be about Jesus Shuttlesworth in his last year. He's broke because he kept playing poker against. He's like, he can't. Oh, these sharks in Vegas.

He can't hack it anymore. His dad is now Timorett. He's out. Jake is out here getting it and he's like he has to save Jake, Jake got the big chains 45 year guy wearing jumpsuits like the whole, Jake is doing the whole

thing. Yeah, he's on an All-Star weekend without his son. You know what I'm saying? He's doing the whole nine. He got kicked out of three ball on Friday night and all-star weekend. Exactly. He's playing in the big three. He's just off the wild. Jake is playing in the big thing. He's feuding on the internet and all the smoke

with Matt Barnes. He does all of the smoke interview. That's the whole thing. It's really about Jesus trying to reign. He tries to feud with Yaut Ming because they played together for a year. Now, I just think it would just be, I wouldn't want to hear a game now because it would just be like one of those big ass IP stories where they're just trying to get so many different products in because this is that. It's going to be like, it will be like house party. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Traill, Catherine Hahn, Steve Bishamie, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, Phil Baker Hall. We don't have Chris Ryan here to do Wayne Jenkins as Jim Brown's partner in this movie, which really would have helped.

or Wayne Jenkins as the basketball coach. Sam Jackson, yes. I think Sam Jackson is kind of, he must have been super busy, right? Yeah. What would he have been, though? Could he have been the high school coach? He could have been the high school coach. He could have been Jim Brown.

He could have been big time. Right. I don't want to change big time. Big time is great. I would like, no, you know what I would have been. Uncle Bubba? He could have been Uncle Bubba. I would have liked him to be Jim Brown's part

because there would have been so much more depth to like the scene where he were, right. We would have had a Denzel Samuel Jackson's scene. he must have I mean this was right in the Sam making five movies a year stage he must have just been busy that's the only thing I think they only filmed this movie in 23 days so really

yeah so 23 days you got really Sam's like I'm doing deep blue sea and then then I'm making that movie with Christina Ricci where she's in the cage and then I got I just can't years later

I'm just trying to name Sam Jackson movies Blacksteak bone We got a rehearsal for Blackspeg mode Just one Oscar who gets it Dezell Yeah, Denzel Or the Densel

I don't know if he's gonna get it I was gonna do like Best Original Song That would have been great I think Public Enemy Can you know Can you do director or scripts? Can you imagine now in 2003 that didn't get nominated

for Best Song with the songs that got nominated I will say that Hustle and Flow changed this a little bit. After that, I think, you know, it's a little bit more open because there have been a couple of songs that have been nominated.

How about, like, lose yourself when Eminem, did that change? I don't know because I wasn't, like, there. Did you think that help open the door as well for at least hip-hop? I think that's a good question. I think that Eminem and that song, I don't want to piss off the Eminem fans. It's still different when Eminem wins

an Academy Award for Best. film and win the three six mafia with it. Yeah, when Queen Latifah said, and the winner is, three six mafia. I literally, I literally sprained my ankle jumping up. Oh my God. What a moment in black history, man. Going nuts. Oh, my goodness. Bill was the same way. Bill was like, yeah, Memphis.

Probably and answer more questions. We already asked if this movie foreshadowed the LeBron era, did this movie create TikTok? At some point, one of the characters says, I just wanted you to know the TikTok. Oh. Yeah. Whenever somebody heard that.

TikTok, good name for a website. All right, I want to play out Kobe's life and career if he takes this movie. Go for it. And make sure you stay respectful. I don't think the movies. You guys know I'm out on Kobe on this movie. Like, I don't think it would be...

Craig. Craig's in. So it's 3 to 1. We think Kobe would have been good in this movie. All right. So Kobe's in this movie. movie instead of just being like the young high school kid who's shack sidekick who oh he might be good someday this movie comes out in 98 April

that's after Kobe has had the year two where he makes the all-star game it's starting to seem like hey when MJ retires this might be the guy and then this movie would come out in April of that year of Kobe's kind of oh I remember writing about Kobe that year being like this guy's I'm buying all the Kobe stock if you have any stock I'll take take it. And then this movie comes out during that. Does Shaq?

And I feel like he becomes a phenomenon, and that fucks up the Lakers even sooner. Interesting. It said Shaq up here, and Kobe is the little brother. And it wasn't really until 2001 when that really became they were equals. I don't like this might have sped it up and started problems sooner. Yeah, because remember two years later, they won the first title. And that is Shaq's team in 2000, right? Shaq's the best player in the league.

In the league. Kobe's still the little brother, but he's awesome. I don't know. I don't. Because Shaq, as we all know, is just can get jealous of his co-stars. Well, plus who's making movies during this time? Shack, and they all suck. Now, Kobe's in a Spike Lee movie.

I was really good. The real thing that would happen is Shaq hadn't really been in a movie that was watchable since Blue Chips at this point. Yeah. And he's made Shazam. He's in Shazam. He's in Steel. Yeah. These are like, legendary bad films.

For as fun as they were at the time, you always have fun watching Shaq. But, you know, if Kobe is maybe in the he got game, they're bad. Hold on. I just said they're legendarily bad movies. But it's entertaining to watch that. But if Kobe's in like, he got game, that movie's everywhere. Getting great reviews. Does that fuck on him sooner?

Does he start acting more? What does this do to Mamba mentality? Maybe he never wraps, which would have been good for everyone. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm actually higher on Kobe's rap. It's a fun sliding doors, though. I don't know. His career is definitely a little.

little different, but I don't know how. Well, I mean, look, remember, Kobe's in LA, because here's what's going to happen. Ray Allen didn't, but I think if Kobe would have been in this, in this movie would have been even what it was or maybe better, he definitely acts more. Because he's in Los Angeles. I feel like he definitely acts more. And the question is, what really happens to Kobe's career? I don't know if this is possible with how focused he was on basketball.

But what happens to Kobe's career if he acts a little bit more? If he acts a little bit more, if he's any less maniacical. He's stealing parts from Jamie Fox. He's got the Bundini Brown roll in Ali. A six-foot-six-foot-six-foot-year-old. What question is, does it make him more likable during that time? 100,000 percent. Kobe was likable during that.

No, but I think this pushes him another level. That were just like, yo, he's stuck up. He's this. He doesn't pass the ball. I feel like that was later. Nah. I feel like that was later. 97-98 was as we all like Kobe year.

And then after that, it was like, maybe it's Grand Hill, maybe it's Iverson. Grand Hill was before. No, but when MJ left, everyone was like, who's the next guy? Because Kobe was my favorite player and I had to defend this. Every OG was like, he's a ball hog. This was 99, 2000.

He's a ball hawk. He never passes the ball. He passed it. The Andy and Red Zawantana Award for what happened the next day. We kind of know. They create the multiverse. What piece of memorability would you want from this movie. It has to be Denzel's

Air Jordan 13s, right? Is there a better prop from this movie? Probably not as a problem. Maybe the rubber bands that they both wear around their arms? No, I want to... No, you know what it'll be a stunt, though? The actual Lincoln Jesus Shelton's World Church. There's a lot of fakes out there. Oh, that's a actual one. I want the actual jersey.

That's the Jersey. Yeah. The jersey is the one. How about the basketball from the ending? Just for Logan. I like that scene. Throw the basketball. Beat up basketball. I can't believe it, dog. Like, universally, the one thing... I like it, Logan, you'd be you. Don't listen to man.

Universally, the one thing that's criticized about this movie is how preposterous to ending of the movie is. First of all, Jake almost gets killed to throw the basketball to his son in the multiverse. Remember, the guy's going to shoot him. Like, get back! And I'm like, for a second, I thought, is this motherfucker about to get shot in his head

at the end of this movie? What does that solve? Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. trust no one when you're a great basketball poor. Yeah. Unfortunately, I think that might have been the lesson. I think that's what Spike wanted us to know. Or, you know, there's a great lesson in the movie,

which is how do you spell pussy P-U-S-H-I-V. That's how it's great. Oh, who won the movie? This will be interesting. Ray Allen. Ray Allen wins the movie. If Ray Allen doesn't do this movie, and he has a career that he has,

has for sure but this puts I think this puts them on just a different plane of legendary status for sure the fact that he did do this movie I mean I got Denzel I don't know man it's tough I really almost gotta give it to Ray Allen

like I give it to it made him a cultural staple it just means more for Ray Allen than it does for Denzel that's a whole went toe to toe with them in the game though but if you think if you honestly know

I'll be honest, if you took if you took this movie away from Denzel, if you just took it out, he's fine. If you take this movie away from Ray Allen, he's probably... This does add to the right. Yeah, you're right. This is a good case. This adds to the Ray Allen legacy. Reggie Miller wasn't in a movie like this.

No, he was actually in the movie. Reggie Miller has caught, what, three strays? I ride with Ray Allen. Reggie Miller was in this movie. Ray Allen, staff boss in the back and signed with Miami. I still like him. Yeah, I mean, Logan, you make a good case.

I think it's Ray Allen, man. All right. Craig? Or, or either that. No, Spike Lee. Who else can make this movie and not fuck it up? But this is a classic spike where you're as impressed as you are frustrated by some of the things he does. So it's either Ray.

The hooker subpline, I just. It's either Ray Allen or it's a tie between Jill Kelly. Oh, God. Chase to me. Maybe they win it. Right. And Heather Hunter. Craig, what did you think?

It's funny. I was thinking about it. I had such a 90s gap in movie knowledge, and I think it's because when your parents, like my brother was born in 90, I was 94. And I feel like when your parents are raising kids, they don't have time to watch anything. So like my dad couldn't recommend

and my mom couldn't recommend anything that came out in the 90s. Because like they were just doing kids stuff. They had jobs. So I was always watching 80s movies when I was a kid. I would watch E.T. Raiders of the Los Art. Because my dad had seen those because he hadn't had kids yet. Yeah.

So every time we do a 90s movie, I'm like, man, I haven't seen that one either. And I think it's definitely because like once I turned like eight or nine years old and I could start to just kind of watch movies on my own with my friends. That's why I picked up with like, remember the Titans and then Ford, but the 90s, I just have nothing. That's interesting because, like, I mean, I was 93. So when I was watching movies with my mom, I would just watch the movies that she watched.

Like every new movie, she was like, well, I ain't got nobody else to watch it with. I'm going to watch it with you. So that's how I watch, you know, like the Titanic's in 97. Oh, yeah, I wasn't doing that. She would take me to the movies with her. I would do like Sandlot Home Alone, like kid stuff, but. Yeah. We watched the kid stuff.

This is also cultural. I watch Harlem Nights with my parents. Yeah, same. I watched it with my parents. I remember I was 11 and I went to see Boomerang in the theaters. Like with my dad. And I remember my dad going, God, damn, Robin Givens moving that thing. I was like, you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, I think that we were just watching trading places. I saw when I was like six or seven years old. Yeah. I don't know if your parents would throw you to the wolf. I don't know if your parents were 30 to a wolf's like that, Craig. But anyway, I pretty much have the same thoughts you guys did. I was watching, I think this movie probably could have been 25 minutes shorter. Yeah, that's a spike.

To me of Jobovich stuff, I was like, man, this is like eight minutes of them talking, and we haven't left this scene. So I agree with all the points you did. The one thing that stood out to me more just, like, learning about that time and what it was like to be a Jesus Shuttleworth type, I guess it's crazy to me that everybody knows he's like, he would be the number one pick in the draft. He's either going to go pro or he could be the best player in college, whatever.

He's on Sports Center every night. Everybody's watching his games. And yet he's just like going to school every day. No one's like looking out for him. He's just like anything could happen. He's in Coney Island and not a great area. And just no one's really like. Because Big Willie put the word out.

No, but I mean like I think it's crazy that there's no one else making sure that like nothing bad is going to happen to him. Everybody is great. Yeah. That's the whole system. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's it's. Do you know what I mean?

No, he's like he's like shooting hoops at the. park. Oh, oh, there's no one's handling him. Yes. Oh. Oh, he could get basically, but remember, okay, I see what you mean. You know what I mean? I'm like, this guy is the next LeBron James or, you know, the first LeBron James and

just like, he's just like shooting hoops at the park with a shitty ball and like that's what he's doing? That's kind of how it is, though, a little bit. Yeah, I guess that kind of surprised me. I think that changed in the 2000s, though. Well, that changed when AAU came around and there was always somebody and there was like a little industry around the kids, but like. He's like he's famous, but he didn't feel famous.

He wasn't getting the famous treatment. Yeah, he's still riding the bus. Everybody's asking him for autographs and stuff, remember? Yeah, he gets that, but I don't know. I guess. I get enough of what you're saying. The best kid now in high school, whoever that is, Bronny doesn't count obviously,

but the best high school athlete now, I feel like he's already a celebrity. Without a doubt. Yeah, but that's just a society. Some of them that aren't even the best are, actually, the ones that are the best aren't as big as celebrities as the ones who are just celebrities for whatever reason. And there's just no way to shoot in hoops at a park.

It's just not how it goes. But I think that's what. more of the sign of the times, right? Because this story really mimics Kevin Garnett's, and he was doing the same thing, like, around that time. That's what surprised me. They just weren't. This was right before, like,

it really, really got big in the high school. 90s high school guys were not famous like this. Not really. He was on Sports Center. I know, but I barely knew, you know, I was pretty wired in at that point. You knew the Kobe thing. It's like, oh, yeah,

Jelly Bean Joe Bryant's son is an awesome high school player. We didn't really know anything. LeBron was the first one. Right. Even DeWan Wagner, the year before, it didn't feel the same. LeBron's thing, it felt like he was on the cover of SI. The internet was really hitting in the right way.

And it just felt like everybody kind of knew what was going on. Yeah. And after that, that's when it just... I've never even heard about these guys until they started making noise in college. Really? Like, at that point, except for the guys outside of my area, like when we would play, we go around the country playing people,

and every once in a while, you get somebody dropped like 50 points on you in a game, and you go, who is that guy? And go, oh, my God, is he... But it's like later on, all the magazines came, all the stuff came, and like these guys became celebrities in their own right. It was, it was some stages, though, because first it was, LeBron was the big one, right? And then there was a period where, like, you knew high school guys, but it didn't really matter. And then you get to... The OJ Mayo era.

The OJ Mayo era, you get to that era. But then, like, when Zion goes big on the rise of social media and then also Lamello, like, you're seeing all of their games every single time. That, so this is what I'll say about that. That is when those guys became... More savvy? Well, no, they became legitimate celebrities because of social media. But there were still, like,

Austin Rivers, who our colleague here at the Ringer, I tell him all the time, it's like, when my brother sent me Austin Rivers' mixtape, the Soap... The Hoops' mixtape? The Hoops' Mistape,

the subject line was the next Kobe. Yeah. So, like, we knew who these guys were. John Wall, Derek Rose, all of these guys, like, we knew who they were. They just weren't... That was, like,

the first... Austin Rivers era was, was like the first era of YouTube. They had hip-hop mix-hips' mists. They also had Yehry's finest. Like, they had all these types of blogs that was, but it was also still niche. Like, when Zion came on,

everybody knew what fuck Zion was. Because it was on Instagram. It was on everywhere. You couldn't escape it. Dan used to follow the high school scene way more before LSU basketball died because of Ben Simmons because he stabbed the whole program

in the back and then left. The worst tiger that has ever played big time. for LSU. The worst LSU. Let's do that as a 20-episode narrative pod. The worst tiger. The worst tiger. They didn't make the tournament, right?

No. No, he left. He left before the season ended. He, like, I remember, we should have known then. He's so happy to happen. I'm not piling on Ben Simmons.

Anybody asked me this question. What was their record that year? I can't remember. I think maybe we won, I think we won 20 games. I think we got, but I remember us playing against, like, Oklahoma,

and Buddy Hill just torching us. And Ben Simmons is having a good game, but it just didn't. It didn't seem like he was engaged at all or on the court. He just didn't do anything for LSU. He just won 19 and 14. Yeah, yeah. He just didn't do anything for LSU.

He didn't win the SEC tournament that year. He didn't do anything for the team. It was like, we're so happy. He's just like. Bad son. Yeah. And that's how I guess we're going to end that he got game podcast.

Somehow we got Ben Simmons caught a straight. Both Ben Simmons is. We're mentioned. Logan, good to see you. Van, good to see you. This was produced by Craig Horroback as always. And we'll see you next week. We got the Mother of Dragons.

is coming next week. Mally Rubin. It's happening next week. Can you say it now or no? No, I can't. You can probably guess. We only bring her in for the big guns. Kevin Koster's in it?

Yeah, yeah. All right. We'll see you next week.