The Rewatchables - ‘Higher Learning’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wesley Morris

Episode Date: February 19, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and The New York Times’ Wesley Morris enroll in Columbus University to revisit the first film in our series of Flawed Rewatchables, ‘Higher Learning,’ starring Omar Epps, Michael Rapaport, Kristy Swanson, and Ice Cube, directed by John Singleton. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi. What is high? Higher. What is learn? Learning. What is higher learning? That's perfect. Higher learning coming up on the rewatchables.

Welcome to the real world. 18,000 students. 32 nationalities, six races, two sexes, one campus. Hey, let's see your ID. Now let us see your I think.

Permission is power. Call security now. What's the matter? Time to raise the body, you. Stop that! No, no, no, no, no, no, go on. A film by John Singleton, rated R at theaters now.

All right, this is the first episode of the flawed rewatchables. A little eight movie series that we're doing. Wesley Morris is here, my old Grantland colleague from the New York Times. Our friend Van Lathan is here. What up? What up. Have you been on a rewatchables?

I have not. Wow, you're losing your rewatchables, Virginia. Yeah, I've listened to a lot of them. They're great. So, 25th anniversary of this movie this year, it's a movie that every time it's on cable, I end up getting sucked in for a variety of reasons to at least like 10 minutes of it.

They're like, oh, this scene. That's amazing. Yeah. We can just start right there. That's amazing. Well, I'm fucking weird. You didn't realize that until now? The wonders just don't ever cease, is my point.

This movie, I don't want to say it's aged perfectly. I don't want to say it's aged even that well. But it's aged amazingly. Yeah, I was shocked. It's kind of, I was blown away by how many themes are still so relevant in 2020 that Singleton was so desperately trying to tell us about in 1995. He does it clumsily. there's some issues with this movie.

There's some fatal flaws that we get into. Wesley, what was your reaction when you watched it again? I was all, you know how it is. You always hope that the thing that you, that was a, maybe you didn't like the first time, you know, I saw this movie when it came out, and so I thought the time passing would make things a little clearer, or I wouldn't have remembered them the way I remembered them.

But no, it still doesn't work. Are you glad it exists as a movie? And as a movie that came out in 1995 during a really fascinating time in America and in Hollywood. Sure. I think that, what are we, 25 years later,

I feel like the ways that the culture has sort of caught up with the movie is interesting. And or like the way that we... That's faint praise. We were already... Well, but it's not nothing, right? Like, the idea that all of this stuff is happening,

all of this stuff that is currently like in the White House is in this movie, right? That's that's not nothing. Like there's no Woody Allen movie that's doing all this. Van, what'd you think? You were emotional watching a little bit.

So it's interesting. I think my relationship to the movie was so during the time when movies were real cultural events for me growing up in Baton Rouge, we would go and see them and it was just like, oh, they were amazing no matter what. Then as my film palette sort of became a little bit loftier

or more complicated, I grew to see the flaws in the movie. So when I first saw Higher Learning or a lot of other movies like it, I was like amazing. I loved it, right? But then as I started to see more films, getting inspired by more movies from all over the world, blah, blah, all different times, I'm like, High Learn is not up there with the rest of the world.

films. As I watch it now, there are just so many things that I see that makes the film resonate with me. I see all... Oh, it got better for you. Yeah. I agree. I think it got better for me too. Like, first of all, I look at a lot of, even the talent that's in the movie, which the top level talent is one thing, but then all of the familiar young acting faces of the day, Carrie Warer. Like, like, like just old Christy Swanson and all. All of those people like that and just kind of seeing them around. Buster Rhimes doing this thing in the movie, which I don't remember having seen before this.

Then just the commentary of the movie, it's weird. There's a mass shooting in the movie. There is violence against gays in the movie. There is a campus date rape in the movie. There is a struggle. But there's all of those things in one film. You forgot campus police violence? Campus police violence.

You white national. The white nationalism, all in one film. Now, between these are some really, really campy in over-the-top scenes. And I think, I'm going to say this, and I hope she never hears this. I think the movie would have been 40% better, four zero percent better without Tyra Banks in it. She is so criminally bad. Oh, my.

She is so, like. She looks great, though. She looked great. She went on to do some stuff, but every scene. Every scene is like, damn. I like that you're starting with Tyrant. Yeah, that's an interesting. Because I would, I would,

there are like four other people that if I were, if I were the casting director and I took them out, the movie would be 40% better. Like who? I think all of the skinheads. I think all the actors play. Cole Houser, to me, set the skinhead standard, pre-American industry.

Are we doing the Colhouser conversation now? We can save it. We can save it. I'm happy to do it now because I think, now let's save it. Let's save it. I have thoughts both ways. I also feel like this is a crazy thing to say. I think I can say this knowing who, this will get to this later, but I think Omar Epps.

I know you're going to say it. Omar Epps. Hold that. I know. I'm not going to do it. It's not the. Omar Eps. Like, you know.

He does that. But it was, remember now, this is early Eps. This is, what are you? Early Epps? I mean, this is peak Eps. Well, not really. I would say peak Eps is love and basketball Eps. All right, that's, okay, we're, okay.

We're four years before love and basketball. He's really good in love and basketball, and I wish he had been as good in this movie, would be my own. I think we're going straight from, there's probably something in between there, but we're going straight from Q and juice. And this role just had a lot to it. Remember a role that, like, was. I think for Tupac, right? Yes. So casting what ifs, which we usually do like halfway through the pod,

I think it's impossible not to talk at the opening about that what if. Tupac is cast in the movie. They're in pre-production. They're about to actually start making the movie, and he goes to jail. And they have to replace him last minute. And I didn't know this. Or I'd forgotten it.

And I was doing the research before I watched the movie. and now I'm watching this movie thinking about him in that role. Right. And I don't know if we've ever really talked about him and the rewatchables. I thought he was an amazing actor. He was...

I thought he was one of the five most interesting actors in that decade. I'm sorry. Like, in terms of... I like poetic justice in that movie is terrible. And I only liked it because of him. Because, yeah, I mean, he... He is the most exciting...

He could have been because when he was in movies, he was the most exciting person in whatever he did. Even above the rim, he's the most exciting person. Above the rim is a flat out great performance by the room. Above the rim, Gridlock, like, there were... Jews.

Like, that's just flat out great acting performances by Tupac. Also, when you lose Tupac in this movie, there's a rumor I read about this that DiCaprio was in for Remy. Yeah, so I was unable... As you know, I'd like to do half-ass internet research for this pod. Right. Heard that one both ways. Both ways.

My wife and I were talking about that. I think that would be a really weird Leo role. That would certainly have no correlation with any role he's played ever. He's played so many racists. No, but not like at that point in his career when he's doing like Gilbert Grap and he's in the Quick and the Dead and Basketball Diaries. He's going to be like a skinhead. He was going back and forth though because he was doing movies like the Quick in the Day

where he showed up in these big Hollywood films and stuff like that. But he was also doing the basketball diaries and messing around with it. So I could see him in the film. Well, the rumor that's on the internet. Who knows if it's true is that he couldn't do it because he was doing quick in the dead, which was a bad movie. I read that his... It's how you know it's bullshit because now we have so many different things. I read that

he completely lost interest in the role once he found out that Tupac wasn't a part of the movie anymore. Let's bring him out. Leo, come on in. But the Tupac thing, not only would this have probably been the most interesting performance out of all

those performances, it completely changes the movie. It brings this level of anger and intensity to that role. It changes the chemistry. It changes the chemistry of every thing. Every single scene is different. Every scene. Every scene between him and Fishburn would have been. Like the same when Rap reports pointing the gun at Omar Epps, that's too, and he's doing the thing where he looks at the gun like he's not afraid of it. But if you put Tupac in that, in that exact scene? Searing. Well, he's just like, he's staring

daggers through that dude's forehead. There's also another important element that, that I know is important to John Singleton as a filmmaker that he, he get, and the other crazy thing, Well, whatever. I'm not going to step on this in case it comes up later, but just I'll make a mental note. Sex is a really important part of the John Singleton experience. And not just the having of the sex, but people who can be sexy.

And he got that in Boys in the Hood. He obviously had it with Tupac and Proletic Justice. And he would have had it. I just think that Tupac changes the sex chemistry between him and Taira Banks, if it's still Taira Banks. I think also he makes every other person in a scene with him. And anybody on the set maybe who knows that Tupac's going to be in the movie too.

Well, also, you leave out or you didn't leave out. It was going. By the way, it was going to be Tower Banks. She was cast because he saw her. He was dating her, right? John Singleton. So she was going to be in the movie. He saw her on the cover of Essence magazine, told his people go get her.

And then I read about it. I read this yesterday. Her first read, he goes, wow. you're a fantastic actress and then puts her in the movie. We have lunch with me? I think she's better. I think she's better than you do.

I don't. I wasn't digging. I didn't mind her either. So the other thing with Tupac, you have him and Ice Cube in the same movie in the mid-nighties. Yeah. It's fantastic.

At this fascinating point of both their careers. And you also know you're getting at least one song for the soundtrack. Yeah. Which I, the soundtrack is a miss. So something else about the movie is... I'm a get you, Bill. That soundtrack should have been incredible.

Something else about the movie is, for me, post-college. Like, when I first saw the movie, it was 14 to 15 years old. And then watching it again, post-college, I related to so much of what I saw. Yeah. Like, even what I saw in Malik, you get there and you think that college is all about partying and I having fun. And then the first frat party you try to throw.

The cops come and they shut it down. and you go, why aren't you doing this to teach? And then you completely change your worldview in terms of how you're looking at school. School becomes this little microcosm of like everything that's going to be wrong with society for you going forward. And there's this weird little awakening that happens. And it happened with him a little bit more forced and a little bit heavy-handed. But that was based on Singleton's USC experience. And this was, I think, the movie,

After Boys in the Hood, he was the most excited to do. I think poetic justice was kind of the stopgap one. But there's that one scene when Ice Cube's looking around. It just describes everybody. And he's pointing on. He's like, there's Chinatown. There's under the border. Take a trip around the world.

Look there. From this statue, you see them people? That's Disneyland. And there's Chinatown. And over there, that's south for the border. And this right here. is the black hole because we're black folks.

And what you just described, I think that's one of the themes of the movies that you go to college and everybody's supposed to combine, but actually the opposite happens and people are here and people are here and people are here. Yeah, that's that, that's college. Yeah.

Welcome to my college. I saw this movie in college. It just came out my sophomore year. And we all gotten, I mean, this Jonathan Klein, one of my dear friends, had a big orange VW bus. I believe we all got in it for this,

but I know a group of us went. I don't remember how we got there because that bus was basically how we got to a lot of because we went as a group. But I saw this in, I want to say, North Haven, Connecticut. Oh, wow. And it was a mostly black audience.

And the scene, I mean, I don't, the sex scene, the bisexual, sort of ghost-oriented sex seed between among Jennifer Connolly Christy Swanson and the guy who plays what's that guy Chris Wiles

is that a guy, Chris Wiles Jason Wiles, aka Colin from 902 and O who got Kelly Taylor hooked on cocaine but keep going The screaming and oh my goding in the theater when that sequence happens was I'll never forget

get that. People were losing their minds at the idea that like, wait, there's not even a cut. And Jennifer Connolly's backing out and this, and the dude is coming in and they're making it. She's bisexual. You know, it's just people, people can't. But they addressed it in the movie.

Yes. For all of the, the power and sort of the, I don't know, the virtue of Regina's character. there was a twin. Regina King. Regina King. Yeah.

There was a twinge of homophobia there. And she was judgmental of her roommate when she thought that her roommate was having the same-sex relationship. And something else about the movie is that that part is a very indirect criticism on black society. Yeah. That exists right there for you to see. You see one person born and through an awakening, experimenting, and you see the judgment

from somebody who is her friend across the hall from her in that. And so... Well, it was 1995. I get it. No, no, no. I don't even think Ellen had come out on a TV show yet. A year and a half after, two years after, something like that. But while I'm watching that and I'm going, he really wasn't fucking around.

Like, as far as, the execution may have been what it was, but John Singleton in that movie, there's really no hero. Right. Everybody comes away a little fucked up. And that seems to be like one of the one things we can't get to. in society today is the realization that we're all a little fucked up. Well, I'll give you. Well put.

Yeah, that was good. John Singleton was on Charlie Rose in 1995. It's a piece to my brother, man. At that point, he had made Boys in the Hood, and he made poetic justice, who I think we all have a complicated relationship with that movie. Yeah. With Poet Justice? Yeah, Janet Jackson looks amazing in it.

There's some great things in it. There's some... Two Pock is great in it. and there's some really bad moments in it. It's very rewatchable, though. It's very rewatchable. The music's getting in, all that stuff. All the stuff with Tyra Farrell in the beauty shop.

Yeah. All of that. All of that stuff. It didn't ding him, though, that movie. I think people were still interested intensely in what his third movie was going to be. Boys in the Hood was such a revelation. He was so young. And that was such a moment in the early 90s like, oh, this guy, we need this guy.

What's next for him? Then he makes that one. It's like, all right, kind of a miss. But, you know, it had a. its moments, and then this one was going to be his godfather, basically. Right. John Singleton's. Black people wanted to see whatever he did. Yeah.

I mean, that was, that was, and I know. He had been, like, he came, because we had been doing the Spike thing for so long. Yeah. And, you know, and Spike's movies are really artistic. But he was also making... Like, my dad would look at Spike Lee movies and he'd be like, yo, why are he floating?

And there will be no way to kind of divorce him away from that. Whereas when we went to go see Boys in Hood. We were living out here when we saw Boys in the Hood. We went to go see Boys in the Hood. My dad just got it. It was a little bit differently. So John Sigmilton almost seemed like at one point he was going to eclipse that and kind

of be the guy. I agree. Yeah. And so that's kind of where we were. So he said, Charlie Rose, he says in 1995 on the show, I am a black man in America. I have so much angst. So that's what I'm going to write about. And then he said, American college campuses are the only place you can see America

in its purest form. So that's what motivated and retortate this movie. I don't know if I agree with that, but it's interesting that that's what made him want to write the movie. Because it's raw, right? Like, nobody really knows, nobody really knows what they should or shouldn't say, or they think that, like, this is going to be the place

where I learn what the lines really are, or I'm going to learn how to draw my own lines. Or you end up plowing over the lines and then regretting it later. Right, but I mean, there will be somebody there to check you. Yeah. And the thing that disappointed me in my, 1995 about this movie was that it just first of all

it came out in January so we'd all come back from from the holiday and we're all like this was our first big group activity and I think that we'd all it was a mixed group that wound up going to the movie and we a lot of the black people had sort of been through

we'd all had an incident at some point in school in this particular you know in the in the in the year and a half we'd been there. And there'd been like campus-wide incidents. There was something about Singleton's disinterest in pacing and in patience, right?

The movie is amped up from the beginning, basically. The minute Malik gets into the elevator with Kristen, the first thing... Yeah. She, the first, there's a close... I mean, as you know, it's got obvious close-up in case you don't miss it, or in case you will miss it,

he just has a close-up of her clutching her purse. And then there's a pan up to him noticing that. And there's like a, just like the lack of the refusal to even be subtle about it was something that kind of I bristled at. I mean, it's not better now that at the time I'm like, but it's not that obvious. Like, I mean, we didn't have the term microaggression in 1995, not to my aware.

I wish it wasn't a term. Fair. But what you realize, though, is the thing that a concept like that is getting at, which is like death by a thousand cuts. There is no... I mean, there were incidents where things in this movie kind of happen, right? But it's taking all of these little things and just like, I don't have time to deal with the micro part. I just want to go straight to macro. I want to turn up...

I want to turn the shit up to 11 and just keep it there the whole time. Is that the frustrating thing about Singleton, though, is that he doesn't just stay in the two shot. if she clutches the purse there's such a better way to do that where it's subtle instead of like... Camera. Camera. I just wonder...

And it like hits you over the head with it, which is the biggest problem of this movie. He's got the bad out. Also, but he's connected. He's got skin in the game here. I think, like, I remember writing a paper in college and the paper was about racism

and the professor goes, I love the way you write. This is the worst thing you've ever written. It's the worst thing you've ever done. She goes, like, you are way to invest it. to like to be this. You're all over the place.

You're angry. You're mad. You're sullen and it's all coming out. And I think for him, when he says that to Charlie Rose, his, you can tell in this movie there is a point to make. There's a, some of the, some of the, the, the, the scenes between Lawrence Fishburn and Omar Epps, they are just overwhelmingly heavy-handed. Like he's, the- When he calls him a sellout after he,

can't do a sellout. And then he has to go and explain to him why he's a sellout. And there's actually a, like, there's a break between older black generations and younger black generations where younger black generations go, we're going to fix society, right? We're going to fix society. We're going to make sure everything is equitable and fair. And the older black guys go, no. If you guys want to make it, you guys got to be better and more exceptional than the people that you're up against. Fishburn actually says that to him.

He actually says, yo, run faster. And I'm like, it just seemed like there was a point to prove in every single scene. And the story itself kind of got put on the bag burner. Yeah, right. Well, so he said a couple years before he actually made this, but he knew he was going to make it. It's going to be hard because I'm pissed off. There you go.

It's going to be the first movie I do that has white characters because I'm going to have to deal with a lot of bigger issues, economic issues, issue of class as well as race. And then in 2014, he said about Hollywood They want black people to be who they want them to be As opposed to what they are And somebody asked for studios limiting your freedom as a director And he said they're trying to, they're always trying to

But even to that point though Something I know is about the movie now more than anything Is that So the character of Remy, right? The character of Remy is an easier character to write Than what he wrote it. You can write a guy that comes from some rural area where Idaho

Idaho who has been racist his entire life gets to a place sees black people and just realizes how much more he hates them than he ever thought that he did

so he goes and joins his skin and it's actually not what he wrote what he actually wrote was a character who got to a place to what he wrote it like anybody that survives one of those nationalist movements

will tell you that it happens he wrote a wayward guy a guy who couldn't find himself fitting in a guy that you actually your heart goes out to him yeah he wanted to belong to somebody

and the first people that made him feel like he was better or at least equal to anybody else, he overcompensated. So even as much anger as what John Singleton had, he still made an attempt in the movie to represent everyone with fairly. Fairly, right, right, right. It is, it is, it's like, the problem with the movie is not its, it's perspectives, right? it's the fact that he can't control. The anger is the presiding emotion in this movie. And so I think what happens is I really would be curious to know,

I'd be curious to talk to a professional film editor and maybe even a producer about what their roles would have. I mean, Stephanie Elaine, I'm sure, would have, she's his long time. She worked with him for a long time. I think she produced this movie too. I wonder what would she would say, she was feeling working with him on this film.

Because this is the sort of thing that I feel like you can't, you can kind of work it out in filmmaking, but I'm thinking a lot about how this movie reminds me in many ways of jungle fever, right? Like, it is a, it's Spikely, you like or not? Spikely jungle fever. I do like jungle fever. I think that it's got a lot of problems, obviously,

and a lot of those problems are structural. But there's so much going on in that film that allows Spike Lee to get in different moods depending on where he is in the film. And it isn't culminating. It culminates in things, but everybody's not going to the same place that some of these characters are, right?

Whereas in this movie, it's weirdly like an Altman movie where you have all these characters just out doing their thing. And then what happens, same way it does in Nashville. Black Altman. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a campus event.

There's the peace festival where this, the mass shooting takes place, all the skinheads, the peacenics, the feminists, the, the, the, the black militants. They all come together and wind up in this space together. And there's something about having to keep all of that, all of these, all the respective angers and ideologies on the same page tonally. So that when you bring them together, it actually does feel like. an explosion instead like a fuse you know you're watching a fuse slowly reach the bomb he just I mean he's just standing there the whole time with the with the TNT pump all right just you know something's coming right but it isn't building to it it just happens right in a way and it would have been great to sort of to experience the sense that you're like well I want attention is taking

you somewhere but like there it does start to the the the sort of, the campus sort of deal does rise, right? You start to see guys going back and forth and then there's a huge fight and then there's a gun. And then there's all of these things. So the tension is rising. And that's even why she decides to throw the big thing, which was, you know, obviously not going to go up. But like, that's why she decides. But every school has that.

Every school, every school has it. As the solution to every problem. Campus rape, racism, poverty. the climate change. Let's just get a band. Musical acts can't solve it? Well, not what band is? Eve's plump?

Eve's plump. Eve plum can solve it. Vitamin C. A vitamin C appearance. I didn't even realize that. Eves plum. So if we say, you know, this is special flawed rewatchable series. If you had to say what the fatal flaw of this movie is,

if you had to pick one, and it can't be this movie with Tupac in that lead role, it doesn't even matter what the flaws is because it would have been fucking awesome. My fatal flaw is he just tries to do too much. And you compared it to an almond movie. Guess what? Those movies are fucking hard to pull off.

It's hard to call it boogie nights. This is basically his boogie nights. And I think he's too young. And who knows if he was talented up or not. I think he has a lot of talent. But to pull this movie off at this point in his career, I just don't think he could do it. All the themes he has, all the actors, all the characters,

you have about two hours and 10 minutes. It's just a hard. It's fucking tall task. And he got there close enough that we're doing a podcast about this movie. And I've watched it a bunch of times. And I really appreciate it like certain scenes. But he couldn't harness it. I think what you were saying about what a professor told you about an essay you wrote is really true for this.

But the thing I would say about that is, well, that's just the work of it. just a job of an editor. Right? Like, to read what you wrote and to get you to vary the tone or to calm it down. It's not like,

it's not that you can't be mad. Right. It's that you just have to find a way to diversify the anger. Right. And there aren't enough moments in this movie where, where,

because like, he is feeling the same thing that you were feeling, I guess, in the piece that you wrote. Yeah. Um, and I feel like the,

the movie's fatal flaw is, I mean, I feel like he somebody should have been able to because all the stuff is there, right? Everything is there. He has the giant meal with all the ingredients to cook. It's all there.

It just needs to have the temperature taken down a little bit here and a little bit here. But it's so, it's so panic. There's so much neurotic. And you don't really, when you think about like black art in general, I mean, we're more neurotic than we give ourselves credit for being.

But the neurosis in this movie is so high, and you don't immediately recognize it as that. But trauma is a form of neurosis. And every character in this movie, with a possible exception of fudge, is walking around with some kind of trauma. Fudge is the realest character in the movie. But the reason why I went to a couple of different schools

just transferring around, trying to find out how well I was going to do. And there's always a fudge. There's always a fun. There's always a guy who's been there for a while, knows the layer of the land, and it's teaching the young fishes, everything about it,

and it's changing your worldview. And there's always a point in your life where you go, yo, if you got all the answers, why are you still stuck around that? You know what I'm saying? Like, where you realize that that guy is a little bit full of shit.

I think one of the biggest things in moviemaking and filmmaking is trust. It's trust between the director, and the performers, it's trust between even the filmmakers and the audience that they're going to pick up what it is that you're putting down.

So you got to kind of get into your story, you got to get into your craft, and then you have to trust that you did a good... I think that is lacking from the movie. When you say trust, where would that be evident? It would be evident in how, like, how aggressive he is about his point proving from scene to see.

Oh, you mean trusting himself? Trusting himself. And trusting what he's already put up there. He was like 26, right? 26 years old. Listen, I don't want to read stuff I wrote when I was 20. Yeah, if there's a flaw to it, it's just that every single time you come away from something, you just feel battered by it.

And it never just kind of, it doesn't evolve on its own. You know, the fudge point is funny because Noah Bombach's first movie kicking and screaming, which is one of my favorite movies. Yes. That's the white person fudge is Eric Stoll's character in that movie. He's the guy who's been. their seven years as a bartender. Or like in days and confused.

Matthew McCona. Yeah, Madri-McConne. It is like we should do a fudge. We should do a fudge all-star team. Yeah, right. There's like, that's kind of like that. It happens, you know. So, um, the movie was released in 95,

just a few weeks before OJ's trial kicked off. Yep. I think it's really important to put that. The climate. Yep. The year, the climate, everything into context. Because this was a real racial awakening. And even for somebody like me in Boston when the OJ trial

happened, which we've talked about, you know, and it was like, well, he's going to go to jail, right? And all I'm talking about it was people I'm around and what ended up happening was this like, oh my God, they're cheering this. Wait a second. What am I missing about America right now? How the fuck did I know? I'm in Boston. Who am I going to talk about that with?

Right. And just in general, the mid-90s were an awakening for a lot of people. And this movie really tries to get into that. And it's like, look, you guys got to look around. There's a lot of shit going on right now. There wasn't an awakening in the mid-90s, America got kicked in their nuts. Yeah. Y'all were asleep.

I mean, I knew what was right. It was an awakening for the people who were afraid. Yeah, that's fair. Fair enough. You got kicked in y'all nuts. Like, all right. We were awake. Y'all were Robert De Niro and that Penny Marshall movie.

Fair enough. Columbus University based off the actual Columbus State University. Even Columbus University. It's too much. That's like. You don't need that. I mean, I get it. You don't need it.

I get it. But looking back on it, Columbus University. This university is named after the evilest figure, the evilest symbol of world colonialism, the destruction of all of that stuff like that. In 1995, we were still celebrating Columbus Day weekend. I mean, we were. I mean, on college campuses, though, and it was starting to flip at colleges. It was still a thing. Like, it was still a, you like, oh, are you going to, oh, you're taking Columbus Day off?

Right. Oh, okay. Excuse me. But like that, even that motif, like that deal is like that's a big deal. Right. Like that and that, when you look back on it, it's just like, you know, that's kind of one of those things to where we, if you, if you trust the story, if you trust what's happening. You don't need that. You don't need to kind of.

I thought it was balls here to do in 95 than it would seem now. Because now it's like, that's an easy kind of case to make. In 95, I hadn't seen that in the movie. But imagine what would have happened if he kept it, if it, if he didn't change the name of the school and it was still Columbus University, but there was an actual. there was more than like the than the then the then the then the then the then the then the throwaway like acknowledgement that the that was a problem fair enough like the name of the college was as much of a problem to the students in the student body in the school infrastructure i mean just think about the way spike lee's school days worked right

where like the the the tension in the movie between the administration and the students is is where the money where the money was either going to or coming from with respect to apartheid. Right. And that was calling on divestment. Yeah. Yep. And that was a, that was a huge ideological strain that ran through the movie and it divided the

campus and it separated, you know, sons from fathers. And it just was this, there was no everything. Here's the thing about this movie. All that, it's all surface tension. And at some point, the thing about surface tension is there has to be something undergirding it. And you have to be able to, you have to understand at some point that there are, there's a history that you can tap into, but you have to be able to in some way either visually articulate or have the characters talk about. And there's, there's just not enough of that.

It's all energy in this movie. Well, I'll tell you, Columbus State is better than what he originally called the college. What? Cracker State. Shut up. Oh. No, no, no. You believe that.

I was, whoa, you're going to have to back it up. What? What? I think I went to that school, though. I think I actually went to Cracker State. Well, you made it out of. There should be a Cracker Stets. It made $38 million this movie.

Yeah. Not awful for Nathan Nath. In today's dollars, it's probably like $50 million. He was hot. And the Omar Epps, and even though Tower Banks wasn't as big of a deal, then, remember, Ice Cube was now becoming minted as a movie draw. And all that, he had some guys in it. Even Jennifer Connolly, this was... This is a first movie in a while.

This is the thing to me that I really enjoyed about the movie is like all the Jennifer Connolly movies that I had seen were movies that my boys had never watched. They never saw career opportunities. Yeah. They never saw like dark crystal and what was it? Was it Labyrinth or it was Labyrinth or it was Labyrinth? She was in the Don Johnson TV movie. That's when I fell in love with her. Right.

What was that? It was she was like this seductress of older Don Johnson. Yeah, like we was called like The Hot Spot. Something like that. Oh, the Hot Spot. That was a movie. That was a TV movie. Right.

That was a movie movie movie. She was naked in that joint. Oh, I'm aware. That's a Mr. Skin original. I thought it was like an HBO movie. Oh, my Lord. Oh, my Lord. That's a Mr.Skin.com classic.

How many stars do you think Roger Eber gave this movie? Three. He hated it, what? Two? No, he's a Singleton guy. Three stars? Yeah, he almost certainly. Commended John Singleton.

He commends. He wrote quote. He commends. He sees with a clear eye and a strong will and is not persuaded by fashionable ideologies. Roger knows he had to have peace in his household. His movies. his movies are thought-provoking because he uses familiar kinds of characters

and asks hard questions about him. This is what Singleton said about the movie all these years later. If you look at higher learning, which I was 25 years old, making it, I'm like chock full of everything that would concern young people,

lesbianism and racism and everything I could put in that movie. It was a great movie, a fun movie to do, but you could never get that movie made now. Never. The guy shoots everybody. You know what I mean?

That was this take 20 years. later on this movie. At what point did he make that? What year was that when he said that? Exactly. 2014. He might have had a point about the math. He probably didn't, but I could see why he would have thought in 2014.

People wouldn't have been ready for the ending. About the mass shooting situation, you could certainly get it done now. Like, you could certainly get it done now. But I get why at that point he might have felt like that. He might have still been wrong. But certainly now, I mean, that's, that character is essentially, dealing roof. Like that character is Dilling Roof. Even in the way

another scene, and when when this, even in the way the police, uh, or the campus security treat Remy when they finally get him. They got Omar Epps who's trying to stop him. Oh, they beat him up. They beat him up and they got him in chains. Remy's saying

it hurts. I'm sorry. I just wanted to be an engineer and the cop is and I was riveted when I was watching the movie yesterday and the cop was going, I wanted to build things. I wanted to be an engineer. You can still be an engineer. Stop playing. It's okay.

You can still be an engineer. You can still be an engineer. You just killed a bunch of people. But you could still be an engineer. Like, it's okay. Like, you've done something bad. You're not bad. We're not going to throw you away, which is a...

And it didn't feel like a police tactic either because I was watching it this time being like, I'm like, no, this is not some police tactic. This is actual concern. I have this in what's age the worst. Oh. Oh, interesting. I just wanted to mention the cast really quickly. Yes. Ice Cube, Buster Rhymes,

Regina King, Tyra Banks, Cole Houser. Michael Rappaport, during a really interesting Michael Rapport stretch. Wesley now we're talking about before you came in. Zebrahead,

post-Zberhead? Zebrahead was like a real indie movie that I came out of that going. I like this guy. Then he's in true romance. I'm like, I really like this guy. I love that fucking character.

Yeah. That character, like, I... True romance was great. Love that fucking character And he's going through And then he's in higher learning

He's in beautiful girls And he had cachet And the fact that he was in this movie Mattered Jennifer Connolly Bridget Wilson Before she became Bridget Wilson-Sampras Yeah

Presys Watson Pre When she pissed all the nerves All the nerds off Like we were off Bridget After Mortal Kombat She was She couldn't do much time

I just want to shout out This incredible Omar Epserun Juice The Program Major League 2 steps in for Snipes, higher learning. ER. Early air.

He's the black guy in ER. They were like, we need a black guy. Well, no. They had Eric LaSalle. They had Eric Lesau. They had Eric Lesseh. Yeah. Mod Squad.

Oh, that was kind of That was, that was, okay, I take back what I said earlier about this being. I mean, it's part of the piece. Mod Squad's bad. But it was a thing when it happened. Mons Squad is bad, but he is, he has the thing that he doesn't have from this movie that Tupac would have given it in Mod Squad. He's got, like, that in love and basketball are the two.

Almar Epps. Well, there you go. So he's got the wood. The wood, loving basketball. That's a nice nine-year run. It is. My squad was the one where... It's Claire Daines.

Yeah, that's the one where Hollywood decided that they didn't want any more of really him and of Claire Daines. Now, he went on. Seriously, there's always that movie. Right. To where if you make that movie, like you're right there, right?

Yeah. And then if you make that movie, that movie's a referendum on the rest of you. Like, you're either going to go to T. or you're going to go do something. He's had a great career. But Moss Squad was the one where they went, all right, you're not going to be the Snipes of the 2000s

or you're not going to be anything like that. Because that film, and they kind of did the same thing for her too. Was there a market correction with him and Tate Diggs one way or the other? Wesley. You know Wesley's theory, the market correction? Nah, give it to me. There can only be one sometimes. Oh, that was certainly true then.

Yeah. We just got over, as far as Black Hollywood? We got over that maybe like the last six or seven years. But the thing about, but you know my my wrinkle for Black, actors, which is the racism is often the market correction, right? It isn't, it isn't like one for one. This is why when listening to you guys talk, when we'd listening to you and Chris and Quentin Tarantino, talk about Kings in New York and how Larry Fishburn was market

corrected by Samuel L. Jackson, right? So Samo Jackson, he wrote Pulp Fiction 4. Oh, I listened to the whole part. It was fantastic. Or he wrote Fishburn, worded for Fishburn, Sam Jackson took the part. Yeah. That is a legitimate virtually racism-free market correction. for black people.

But with Epps, Epps was competing with Larence Tate. The Postman was his movie where they decided they didn't want to fuck with him anymore. There might have been like Morris Chestnut. I was gonna say, is Morris Chetna? He was in there.

He's lingering. But he's in this movie. He's in there. He comes back, does his man a solid. Then dark's the under siege to Dark Territory gets him out of here. All of these guys have a movie. But the racism, of course,

is you can only fuck up one time. That's the racist part of it. You get to make one mistake. You won mistake. Anybody else, I remember Hollywood was determined to make Taylor Ketch a thing to where he movie. They just wouldn't stop. Julia or mine.

I mean, just pick a person. Ryan Reynolds. But he kept going until he made it. But at least in the middle of that, he had the proposal, which made them go, oh, okay. But even before that. And the thing about Ryan Reynolds, but you, it made a shit time. He had enough work also, Ryan Reynolds, where, like, you as an audience member could see, like, in those Blade movies, he was the best.

thing in the Blade movie he was in. Well, yeah, because... Right? Yeah, because that movie was terrible. And I feel like the thing about these other actors is they weren't even the stars of these movies. They were just, like, Morris Chestnut was just in dark scene. Right.

Yeah, I mean, it just wasn't, it wasn't fair. Who's the dude from the wire, Wood Harris? Wood Harris? He never got... He never, he never, he never even got to... I'll tell you what, though. Hollywood was... How did his fuck, though?

Wood has had a great career. He was in the bench. He was waiting to get called in. in the game. Wood has had a great career. I don't want to take anything away from the brother by saying, but Hollywood never has ever

given Wood Harris his fair shake. And Wood has delivered, Wood delivered, why are he delivered to pay the full? Remember the Titans? Remember the Titans? Like, after, like, they just never seem to quite fuck with Wood Harris. I never really understood.

There were no parts. I mean, if you weren't making a sports movie, this is the fig. Like, if you, if there's no police movie for him to be in, where he's getting caught by the police. He's not going to be a cup. No dealer, yeah, whatever.

If he can't be on a sports team, coached by... Fast and Furious. He's not, like, quite charismatic. But this, we're not even there yet. I mean, we're still, like, in the late... We're like in the mid to late 90s, right? I mean, and Fast and Furious, I mean, that started out...

Well, I mean, it was still special the first one. But they weren't, no black people in that. But, right, what I'm saying, what I was going to say is, like, Ben Diesel was pretty much doing... Doing everything. We're going to take a break and then we're going to do the categories. Hey, with the new year in full swing and everyone still trying to stick to their restrictive resolutions, Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy. Even in the face of others' judgment, Pepsi encourages you to let Lewis be yourself, live your life like nobody's watching.

Like this rewatchable's feed, some people say to us, why haven't you done this giant movie yet? Why haven't you done that giant movie yet? You know what? It's a marathon, not a sprint, people. We want this feed to exist for the next five, six years. If we blow through all the biggest movies of all time, we're going to run out of movies to do in about a year. So we like to sprinkle it out.

That's why we do flawed rewatchables. That's why we're doing higher learning. That's why Vision Quest and Oceans 12 are going to be the next two. Maybe not your typical rewatchables choices, but you know what? We want this feed to last for a long, long time. We like talking about flaws sometimes. That's why you're listening to Flawed rewatchables.

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First category, most rewatchable scene. Not as, not as fertile as this category usually is in the flawed rewatchables, but I have a couple. Ice Cube and the gang crashed the party. That's mine. For revenge. That's mine. Because Ice Cube is...

Ice Cube is looks like he knows. He knows. Like, no, you're talking about Crash the party when they beat them up. No, the first time they crashed the party. Oh, no.

Mine is the second one when they take poor Christy Swanson over. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's agreed. That's the best sequence in the music.

Fuck, man. I heard you been disrespecting black women. I don't, man. I haven't either. I have no. You call me a black bitch and you're going to get your ass kick. No, come on, man.

Listen, listen. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize to her. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. You fuck that.

We need to just bust this shit. I don't know. Listen. Come on. Please, man. Shut up. Here's what I want you to say. I want you to say I apologize.

Because that you feel like is building, that is a building block scene where from there, things should start to narrow a little bit, right? Where there should, there should, the campus should just be focused only on this incident. Right? We have a, we have a rape. And we have an incident of, like, of racism, and it culminates in a frat house. This is the point at which the administration gets involved, and administration becomes a character, not just Lawrence Fishburn.

Lawrence Fishburn becomes like a, like, a wedge character within the administration debate, right? Yeah. And then the campus starts to splinter, like, along different political and ideological lines based on the two things, the two incidents, right? Regina King being called a black bitch and Christy Swanson being raped. Right. This scene is to me

in the other version of this movie the thing that like that sets it up. Spear has the tension that it leads to the end of the movie. He can do anything he wants before this scene. I'll tell you this. Some great ice cube in this scene. I absolutely love Ice Cube in every scene in this movie

and he's going to be coming up a lot over these next few characters. Next rewatchable. Cole Houser wins over Remy. Huh? I said me and my buddies were going to go get a drink. You want to come along? What are you some queer or something?

Huh? What are you talking about? I should kick your ass, man. First off, don't ever touch me again. I will beat you to the fucking ground, boy. Secondly, you know, I ain't no faggot. I just want to know if you want to get a drink, that's all. Sorry, man.

It's a new city. No, it's okay. You know, I understand. Listen, we'll forget all about it. We're going to go have a drink. I got a couple good people, good friends of mine. We'll have a good time. What do you say?

I think this is a really well-written scene. Remedy's hit rock bottom. Yep. He's got this guy coming up to him. I almost think the guy's propositioning him. But he realizes this is what he does. He walks around campus and he looks for people who just seem down in their luck. I mean, we also don't know.

You know how some of it works. wasn't not not propositioning him. True. Who knows how it goes? There's, there's some of us. I've read some of the reports of. Right, who knows? Who knows how happens? But in that scene, though, I think, well, the reason why prior to American History X,

Cole Hauser, to me, had set the bar as far as the white nationalist in film. Ed Norton just just, just redefined it. It's the best. But in that scene, he is charismatic. Yeah. He identified.

with him. He is intense. He is exactly what the leader of that gang would have to be to pray on hopeless week, out of place kids. And you see you, in that movie, you could see why, me watching as a black guy, you could see why he joins that Skinhead game.

Yeah, Marlon Brandt, fake Marlon Brando just came up to him and like asked him to join the game. You can see why. It made you know, so that was a fantastic thing. The scene where Malik confronts Remy. I mean, it's a little TV movie-ish, but it's really intense.

Can you duplicate the run that Omar Epps does to get to the dorm room? Remember that run? I mean, there's like, there's a way, there's like a 90s style of fighting and running that no longer happens anymore. Where like the fighting is like, it's like they're dancers and they're just

like, I can't, my body can't do, can't punch the way. I think Omar Epps is really good in that scene. He is. The scene where he shows up at the door. Yeah, and he goes in and the first First of all, he tried, Mike Rapport trashes the room. The roommate comes in, like, what the fuck?

Oh, so you're talking about the other? Yeah. I'm talking about that part. Yeah, okay, yeah. And then Omer Rapps comes in, and then pulls the gun on him and the whole thing. Rapport's good news. Get on the floor. Hey, fucking relax.

Get on the floor! You're not white. You're Jewish. You're nothing. You're not me. What are you going to do? Huh? The outdoor lunch brawl,

followed by Ace Cube saying one beat down will never compare to 400, 9 years of captivity, but his whole vibe in that. Where did he get his math? They're on this couch you sitting on. Them shoes you got on your feet. This building, this school, this country, you, we're behind enemy lines, dog. One beat down and never compared to 439 years of captivity.

Never. That was the thing, that was the thing then. 439 minus 19. It's not worth doing, but that's an interesting number. Well, he's going back to the 15. hundreds, didn't he? And I gotta say... The start of colonialism and the invention of slavery.

I'm not really challenging the number, but I... I a little bit am. There's some scholarship now to like actually... And then the last one, look, it's not rewatchable. It's fucking grim, but the school shooting, that whole scene in Rappaport, the fight scene with him and Epps, and then him getting away, and then racist campus cop telling him he could still be an engineer. When Omar's choking him. That's a really gripping 12 minutes. When Omar's choking him, it's great.

He's really doing this thing. He's like, like, you're going to die. She's dead. Like, you can tell he seems overcome with grief. This is a good thing. You're going to die. She dead. I'm going to kill you.

I'm going to kill you. You're going to die now. And that's the thing with Singleton. He did have great stretches like that, that you're just like, nobody's getting up from the theater during that 12 minutes. Yeah, it's like the picnic sequence, the family reunion sequence in poetic judge.

Oh, that's a fucking fantastic piece of art. That sequence is one of the, it's such a great sequence. To me, see, this is the thing. Everybody's calm. Like, things like that, I know that it can't save anything. But things like that, oh, I can't look

with sort of a negative glance at those movies. That is such an unbelievable scene. Yeah. And this movie has some of them too. Like that, like, with Maya Angelou, she's talking to everyone.

It's just so great. I mean, really nailed it. There's an, there's some, I mean, energy is really important in movies, uh,

at least to me. And there's something about, I mean, that's a long stretch. That's a lot, that sequence is, is pretty long. And there's a lot of things

that happened during it. Even at the beginning. Right. Like they got barbecue over there. It's only for families. Like, we black. We all family.

You know what I'm saying? Just like stuff like that. It's just, I love that. I get exactly what you're saying. Yeah, it's just there, but again, like there, this movie, higher learning, it's not interested in, it's like it wants the opposite tone of, but there's no stretch where anything that happens in this movie is as beautiful or as persuasive as what is what happens during that stretch in, uh, in poetic justice. All right. So we think Ice Cube and the gang crashed in the party was the most.

I actually thought you were talking about the fight, but no, that scene is probably the best scene. That's the best scene. What's age the best? So Singleton gave an interview in February 2019 before he died, tragically, where he said he remembered when Fudge asked if Malik would stand for the national anthem, despite the country's racism. Singleton said, I watched the movie recently and I was like, whoa, I can't believe that I was on that back in 1994. No bullshit.

Blue my. I couldn't believe it either. I didn't remember that initially. I didn't remember that. Like, blew my mind. You're asking an athlete if he would stand for the national anthem. They're playing the national anthem. Everybody stand up.

You're going to stand? I'll probably be so embarrassed that I would. I was watching it yesterday, like freaking the fuck up. You had a football game. Thousands of people there. All of them white. The American flag is right above your head. They're about to play the national anthem.

All these people turn around it like you're dead in your eye. What do you do? I stand up. You know, I'd probably be so embarrassing. You know, stand up, you know what I'm saying? So I was going to do this later and probably unanswerable questions, but I'll do it now. Did Kaepernick watch this movie get the idea? Not inconceivable.

No, bro. I think Cap came up to that with that one on his own. Remy's Evolution, which we discussed, I thought age. I thought they, that's the best. best structural thing he does in this movie is really set up how this guy ends up doing what he does. Yeah, because Malik, meanwhile, just goes from zero to Huey Newton. Right, right. I like Malik's Columbus speech just because I thought that was one of the better Omar Epps acting moments.

I mean, it's a little hammy, but Ice Cube, everything, the fro, which, so when you're talking about what stage is the best, the fro in 95 was not really a thing. That was a statement in that movie. Ice Cube had the fro. No, he said in the research it said he grew it out more. Did he? Because he had the character down the fro. The Jared Crow hadn't been around.

Yeah, well, he cut the Jared Crow. No, the Fro was like a big thing for him in this because he wanted, he wanted the character to have a real identity. And movies at that point hadn't really had that. I have a real tough time with Ice Cube. Okay, let's hear it. I mean, it's all personal. There's nothing to do with. Nothing with acting?

Okay. No. I mean, no. Well, what do you guys think Iceke's the best piece of acting is? Peace of acting is. Boys in a hood. Yeah, boys in the hood.

Or either Triple X State of the Union. It's between those still. I was just fucking bills. Bill's like searching this. I'm just joking. No, I was trying to think of how much I like that movie. And I think the answer is I did like it. Triple X-D-E did you?

Yeah. Okay. I didn't mind it. Three kings he's good in? Yeah. Like three kings he's going to, but boy, boy, boy, it's got to be bad. It's, it's, it's going to be bad. It's Friday.

He's, here's the thing about Friday. He's, he's dope and Friday, but he's so much of the heavy lifting and Friday is being done by Chris Tucker. Yeah, yeah. He's playing the straight man. Doing it well, though. Cube and Omar are talking about college sports. I'm not going to say what Cube says, but. sure there

Malik when he talks about being black in college and he says the way these fools be tripping when they see a black face he's saying that

to Fishburn and he says just because it ain't up in my face that don't mean it's not happening it's less physical now it's more mental I thought that was an interesting part yes

you should take his own advice take his own awareness but I hadn't seen that specific point made in a movie before you know what's interesting about the Lawrence Fishburn character in the movie too? Doesn't really work.

From the Caribbean? He's West Indian. He's West Indian or he's... It doesn't work. He's supposedly... He sounds South African at times. But here's the thing. Here's the thing about that character. Is that character exists? Like, that guy existed for me in college.

And what it was was, like, it's a real thing as far as the perspective of an immigrant who's come to America and see... it as this big pot of opportunity. And they're telling you to work harder and work harder and work harder. And the generational institutionalized racism that you've been given and how those professors relate to you. And like that those conversations, like, I remember there was a guy that was telling me

when I was on the yard, when I was on campus, I was asking him about stuff. He's like, what was your ACT score? I told him the ACT score. He said, why didn't you get a 36? I'm like, well, that's a perfect score on the test. He was a brilliant Nigerian professor. I'm like, that's a purpose going on the sense. He's like, can you do it?

I was like, maybe if I studied every second of every day forever I could, he was like, okay, until you've done that, you haven't done enough. And there was a fundamental difference in the way I saw America, which was something that I was accessing something that was owed to me and owed to my ancestors and what he was telling me, and when I watched those scenes back, post-college, like I saw that conversation happening, and it was a real thing. No, it's an ongoing...

I mean, any African-American person who is friends with either a first-generation black American from somewhere in the diaspora, like the ways in which, like, either they will confess to you things that were told to them about us. About us? Yeah. Or things that they have only learned to know to be true by being here for a long time, right?

I mean, the great thing about, for instance, just Sydney Poitier's stardom, for instance, right? Sydney Paulde born in the U.S., a Bahaman by everything else, you know, parentage and upbringing, comes to the U.S., you know, is determined to make it as something, becomes an actor, and doesn't really experience the racism that, you know, our ancestors experience until he has to perform it in the movies.

Right. Right. And so his learning how to be a black American is through scripted racism. Then because he becomes this extremely famous person begets its own. He learns and raisin in the sun. Right, right, right. It's just a fascinating difference. I mean, the Lawrence Fishburn character has to be, in order for him to function credibly, somewhat credibly, in this movie, he has to be, he can't be a person.

who could have been Omar Epps's dad. He couldn't be furious styles. He couldn't be Sam Jackson. Couldn't be furious style. Precisely. He is, as much as they, like, Furious Styles is giving talks on gentrification and stuff like that. This guy isn't concerned with that.

He's concerned with how, what are you going to do with the opportunity that you have? This is a great country. Take the most you can take from it. And that is a conversation, a real social conversation that happens in the community. Add it two weeks ago. What, uh, another one stage.

the best. I'm done with this category of this one. Skinny, Weird Hair Michael Rappaport, really interesting actor in this movie. Yeah. I thought I think he's like legit good in this. Yeah, he's good. It's great. I don't know if it was Oscar worthy, but I think it was a really hard

part. There's a lot of physical. He nailed the part. There's a lot of like, but it's a part that put it this way could have gone really, really badly in the wrong hands. That sequence at the end like his body doesn't know what to do. Right.

Like, if something... But I think he's supposed to be like a door. He's like a never, he's just like a kind of... He can't even open the door. Like, there's something, there's something weird going on with his physical presence during that sequence. Also, when he's standing around, there's a lot of scenes where, like, where, like, Rappaport is in... There's a scene where he goes right before in the student center or something. I don't exactly know where they are.

Adam Goldberg and and Omar Epps are playing pool together. Is it Omar Epps? No, it's Jason O'Brien. Oh, right. So they're playing pool and there's a shot. There's some shots that are just of actors standing and the actor isn't giving you or doing,

it's like the wrong take they used. And Rappaport is just, he's just literally standing there. Nothing is coming off him. Well, there is, but he's supposed to be thinking. No, he's being a weirdo. Right. Yeah, I think he was trying to be weird.

Like he. I'm with you. this in particular point, he can't find his thing. Like, he loses in the game is, oh man, you want to play again? Like, do you want to be my friend? Do you want to be my friend? Then he goes over to the pool table, whatever, and he's just, he's leering. He's watching them play, wishing he could be a part of it. And then when they actually

asked him to play, he goes, no, man, I can't play. I was just watching. So he's just like a kind of thing. But he isn't even, I don't even think he's watching. I think he's looking the other way. There's something, there's just something technically weird about that shot. Can we go to what's age the worst? Yes. What's age the best is the Kaepernick aspect of this. that is just an unbelievable outcome.

What's age the worst? The opening credits are absolutely abominable. I don't fucking get it. I can't believe that happened. That's like he was a making shaft. Like black exploits. I'm like, that's literally,

because I had to buy the movie on Amazon. And when it started up, I thought I had got the wrong shit. I'm something in reality. Stanley Clark, one of our great musicians, not here. The,

more what's age the worst. Tyra Banks sucking Omar Epps's Nipples? Not sure I needed that. That was... I saw that. It wasn't matter for the nipple sucking. I'll be honest with you, though. That's one of the things I always remembered about that.

Okay, great. But that was when people actually did have as close to the sex as you could get. Like, that was that, like this movie... Before we had intimacy coordinators? I think Jade is maybe the last movie where that movie might be the end. But for any time,

any time characters had sex and they can, kissed or anything, the kissing was real. They wanted to make it seem like you went at it. Like the nipple sucking was real. I remember Boomerang. I remember watching Boomerang with my grandma. Oh, yeah. And my grandmother was like...

It didn't have to be that good. Yeah. Like, Boomerang and Harlem Nights both of the time. My grandmother was like, that's real tongue she put on him. What are they doing in these movies? Are these movies blue movies, son? Like, my grandmother would watch, but they were really going at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know my theory I'm boomerang. Very dramatic. What's up? Robin Givens. Oh. Done dirty? She throws for like 530 yards and 70s in that movie. Wow.

She's great. She's like, I don't understand why she wasn't a bigger star. Because of Mike Tyson. I mean, first of all. That boomer is post Mike Tyson though. But it doesn't matter. The stank was on her. And I actually.

And I actually, in her reputation, I also think, and I don't know if you feel this way, I know among black people, black people had a tough time of robbing Evans. It did. And it was... Well, that's what happened, I guess. All I know is in that movie, she jumps off the screen. I mean, she was wonderful. She's hotter than Hallie Berry in that movie, which is impossible.

I was in love with her after that movie for a long time. And also, she played a confident, successful, assertive, sexy black woman. And it was, it was right there. They made her kind of into, like... Marcus, you're not getting too attached. too attached to me, are you? I've seen that movie a lot. Yeah, or was she, when, like, he's made the whole dinner for it?

Let's save it for the boomerang we were watchful. But I will say nobody's, no, we'd never seen that, now that woman is common. That character was in fact. That was the, for nobody had ever seen anybody doing anything like that before. The impact of Jennifer Connolly kissing Christy Swanson has aged the worst for this reason. Oh. In 1995, that was like a big deal. Yes.

It was like, whoa. They're kissing. Now it's like, you could see that on 40 cable channels. But here's the thing. They didn't do that in movies. But you know what? It's aged the best in a weird way because it's not exploitative. I mean, he shoots it in a way to represent a state of mind.

I'm just saying it's age the worst for the impact that it had in 95 versus when you watch it now. Same thing for basic instinct when Sharon Stone kisses her whatever that roommate is. Different story. And it's like, whoa. Roxy. Oh, Roxy. Roxy. The greatest character of the 90s.

I love Roxy. She's just like, fuck this. I'm running this guy over in my car. I love Roxy. I got to take this guy out. Roxy. Roxy. Woo.

I love Roxy, man. That's one of my favorite. Roxy never really seen again. No, I never saw Roxie. Michael Duggo says to... What was... I saw Roxy in something else. What is her name?

Liesel. Lela... I saw her in something else. A couple more would stage the worst. The whole conversation about email when Ice Cube is making... Oh, like, charging an email. Oh yeah, he's a kinkgo's.

You gotta give me a quarter per email. He's a FedEx Kinkgo's, that's right. The soundtrack, oh, Bill. The song that plays over the credits is the worst ice cube song I ever heard. I think this soundtrack... The closing credits. When you compare it to the closing credits,

I never heard that song before. I don't remember, like, haven't heard it. You compare it to the iconic above the rim soundtrack a year before. This era of... That's some of the best music that's ever been made. Yeah, that... Like, why wasn't the higher learning soundtrack?

Yeah. This was an era where even, like, This is 1995. This should have been amazing. Had fantastic soundtracks, even when the movies weren't soundtrue. Was judgment night that, was that 95? Judgment Night with one of the great, 92, 93. Okay, all right.

Anyway. So it has Liz Farrar. It has a good Tori Amos song. It has a bad Ice Cube song and not really much else. Tori Amos is, Liz Phair and Tori Amos are all over this movie. And at first, I thought he was going to limit it to just the Christy Swanson scenes. And then maybe the Jennifer Connelly scenes. Very 1995.

But Tori Amos is all over this movie. Lilith fair era. Yes. It's the beginning of Lilith. Yeah. So speaking of Connolly and Swanson, apparently the studio... Maybe it's before Lilith, actually. Lilith is 97.

No, Lilith's 97. Yeah. Liliths 90s. It was a build-up to what will become... This is when Alana starts breaking out, Cheryl Crow. Like, we're starting... But to have that much Tori Amos on a soundtrack for that movie with that director, I mean, he...

He... Anyway. So... The Connolly Swanson characters, apparently there's a lot more that they cut that the studio is like, we went too far with this, get rid of us. They mean the relationship? Yeah, the relationship. That's why it's kind of tight.

It's the one holding hand scene and a sex scene. It's like, we're good. I'm not going to say they were right to do it, but I got what I needed to get that like there was a real thing, that what they had between them was real. She found somebody that she could trust. An ecology sort of way. Yeah, that made her feel like safe and all of that. One other what's age the worst?

The white supremacists They're basically cartoon characters. I don't know why he had to play that way. No, I know. They could have been in black clansmen. Those same dudes. They could have been a tiny bit more. They had the big jagged dude from the program.

I fuck with him now. No. That's not the guy from the program. That is Latimer from the program. No, it's not. That's got to be him. It is not. Are you sure?

I am positive. He was the other face, right? I am the host of the rewatchables, and this is the kind of shit I look up. I look that shit up. guys. That's not laughing from the program. Are they in any way related? Are we sure about this? I am positive. You're positive about it. I am 100%

positive. I looked it up because I was like, what's this guy's name? I love this guy from the program and it's like, no, that's the same guy. Okay. Well, I promise. I wouldn't lie on the rewatchables. He's terrible. So what's age or worst, we'll go opening credits. Casting what ifs. We mentioned Tupac. There's a whole thing about if Leo had

played Remy, Michael Rappaport was going to play the Cole Houser part? No. Doesn't work. Rappapaport? No. I don't think you can pull it off. Wesley, you're going to love this. John Singleton's original choice for the professor. Oh. It's Sidney Partier.

Oh, that's... Sydney Partier. But that actually works. That's like in... Sidney said no? Second choice, Dustin Hoffman. Ooh. I wonder, well, it could have...

I mean, this could be a Tupac situation. But it looks... It's a little weirder... Dustin Hoffman wanted a lot of input. Yeah, he'd have to change. He'd have to rewrite the part. It wouldn't make any sense. Dustin off and it's like, yeah, I'm going to be in this black director.

I'm going to be in a movie. And it's college and there's racism. Sam Jackson was the third choice. That would have worked too. And the studio said, no, we actually want Lawrence Fishburn. So is it a reverse market correction? You're fucking wrong. It is him.

No, it's not. It says right here that the higher learning he plays NACO. And in the program, he plays Steve Latimer. This is the guy. Of course it's the guy Shit That's no way What's the guy's name?

His name is Steve Polish Andrew Barbar Ascowski Andrew Brianoski Of course

It's got There's no way I can And he also Specifically looked this up Returns And I don't know What a loss for me

Taking a CBD Supplement Huge loss In this podcast Vivica A Fox Was considered For the tire Banks role

Oh should have gone with it Oh yeah That was young and hot. That was a whiff. Should have gone with it. Bad mistake. But why?

Because he had a crush on Tyra Banks. That's the answer. I don't know if this is true. I want it to be true. Singleton originally wanted Gwynth Poutre and Juliette Lewis for the Christy Swanson, Jennifer Connoe. Oh my God. Another Tupac choice.

Juliette Lewis would have completely again. Let's just play this movie out with the cast that we've, some of the people we put on the table. Tupac. Tupac and Juliette. This is Juliette. No, no. I think Juliette Lewis would have been

the Jennifer Connolly character. Oh, and Gwyneth Pautro would have been Christy Swanson. Early Poutre. What had Paltrow done? Not famous. Not famous. She was in Hook?

She was in Hooked. She was in HECD. She was in HECD. She was in Emma. Seven is after this. No, seven is... Same year earlier. Same year.

Seven is 95? Man. What's in the box? Yeah. Yeah. What's in the box? What's in the box? So that would have been, I mean, she would have made.

What's in the fucking box? Flesh and blood. I mean, flesh and bone or whatever that movie is. Yeah, she would have, she would have, again, like just Juliette Lewis, it just would have changed everything because the style of acting would have been different. There's an ultimate universe version of this movie that's fucking amazing. Tupac is instinct. Like honestly, I'm the best movie.

I still look at the movie and I'm like, oh shit, there's Rip from school times. I still look at the movie and still see. And still Jennifer Connolly. What's one of like the young Hollywood stars at the time? Some other quick categories. Best That Guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. I guess we'll give it to the guy

since he was also the guy in the program, which I messed up. That's a big loss for me. Runner up was Jason Wiles, the other white guy who had a nice little run. He was in kicking and screaming and had a big 90-2-0 character arc. And then I don't know what happened to him.

Super grungy in this movie. Hey, if you purchase supplies for a small to mid-sized business, Zoro.com, Z-O-R-O-com, is your go-to-re-com, is your go-to resource. You'll find all the things that keep a business running there, no matter what kind of business you're in. Tools, safety equipment, cleaning, maintenance supplies, office shipping, automotive, industrial equipment, and more including

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Count on Zoro's customer service team base right here in the U.S. Z ORO.com slash rewatchables. Sign up for Z email. Get 15% off your first order that's Zorro.com slash rewatchables. Zorro.com. All you need to make your business go. Vincent Hanna, they new award for Best Overacting. There's only one winner. It's Michael Rappaport. I see? I don't agree.

I don't agree. It's got to be a specific scene where he overacted. The end! I'm sorry. I don't agree. I don't agree that is Rappaport. Yeah, we're out voting. Yeah.

Wait, is this the very end? It's my world. It's my country. It's my world. It's my country. It's my world. You're nothing but a monkey. Look at me.

Look at me. I'm a man. I'm the man. I'm a man. I'll tell you why that scene works for me. It works because... Because I can see somebody saying it. Number one, I can see somebody saying it.

It seems realistic. At this point, he's so stressed. He's not thinking rationally anymore. He's just regurgitating rhetoric. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just regurgitating rhetoric. All right. All right.

Y'all win. You're sure? You're sure? You sure it's not Malik right after he finds out Tyra Banks is dead? Oh. That's a rough 40 seconds. That one works for. That's a rough 40 seconds of acting.

You know, things that haven't aged well, the tomato soup that's coming out of her mouth. That is really not pleasant. I saw that? I was like, you know, that looks terrible. You know what the best act of the scene in the movie is? That's not pleasant. The best? Yeah.

Adam Goldberg when he comes and sees his room for him. Yeah. What the fuck? What are you going to do? I'm going to kick your fucking ass, man. And he's trying to talk to the guy. I thought he was perfect. I thought he was perfect in that scene.

I'm like, shout out to Adam Goldberg. The Dian Waders Award for Best. heat check in the movie. Buster Rhymes. Yeah. He's made a few threes, got a couple of rebounds. Really dials it up.

Oh, what the fuck you talking about, white boy? What the fuck you call the gang members? You know what we go to school here, too? All right, all right. I'm not. Fuck or fuck, come over there and rip your ass off the stairs. I'm right now you? Just, he's one note.

You don't need him for too much. You just need him for three points for he's going to bring it. He went on to reprise the roll and shaft years later. But, uh, yeah, he was good, man. Who would you give it to? I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't give it to Buster. I mean, I see why you're giving it to Buster.

There aren't a lot of options, A. And B, I just feel like, like the what he does in this movie is so indicative of what needed to be turned down. Because there's no, I don't know. But he's the Rara. But that's all right. I know. I get it. It's a heat check.

Also, how long had he been in college? Because he looks like he's 30. Yeah, he was old. Do you think post-to-finish scenes and Singleton was like, it was good, but give me a little bit more. Just dial it up three-notches. Recasting couch. If you had to recast one part in this movie, we already covered that. Half-Fast Internet Research.

We covered a lot of it. The sniper scene was based on the Charles Whitman incident at the University of Texas in 66. Very on the nose. Both Cole Houser, Michael Rapport, or Jewish? Were? Yep. Interesting. Coehauser deep industry ties, family-wise.

He's a Warner's brother. He's a Warner Brothers. And an affluent-Dame and an Affleck, Damon, homie. Yeah, I think, almost happened for him too. Singleton asked Rappaport not to hang out with most of the cast because he wanted him to feel isolated. That must have really hurt his feelings. So here's what Rapport said. I was such a fan of Omar Epps and Buster Rhymes in Cube.

I remember Omar Epps had gotten an early copy of Naz's first record, O-Matic. I remember walking by their trailer and they were listening to it. I was so jealous. Right. Just like at the pool table. Yeah. He wanted to be a part of it.

No wonder he was mad. And then this one bummed me out. I didn't know about this. Swanson is now one of the entertainment businesses most vocal supporters of Donald Trump waging daily campaigns on his behalf on social media.

Never knew it. Getting messages of gratitude. That's why she was second to your buffer. Apex Mountain. Omar Apps. I'm going to say love in basketball. Omar Epps The peak of his career

Peak of his career It's loving basketball Probably loving basketball The Wood Raffaport He had a good ER run He was very good on ER The YR thing probably mattered

More to most people When you ask him What Omar Epps is from All right let's go with that Yeah Rappaport Could argue it's this I already know my

What is it? Oh man It was your HBO show Where he shows up and wants to, like, give you the Tom Brady to play gate business. Christy Swanson, but this or Buffy? Buffy the Vampire Slate.

Mid-90s college campus culture? Mm-hmm. It's pretty accurate. I got to say, though. It's pretty accurate. Kiko 902 and O, California University. Maybe. It's not the peak.

It's probably PCU. But, like, this is not un-represented. Busta? What about them? In the movies? Apex Mountain? No, high-belly. Belly.

Like, Buster's not in belly. Is he not in belly at all? Busters not in Bally at all. D-MX and Nause. He's not in belly at all? Bustin Rines, no. I take it back. I'm trying to think,

and movie-wise, I mean... There aren't a lot of... No, it's got to be everything. It's probably this. I would say no. No, it's not Apex Buster. John Singleton? In the movies?

No, he's just a Buster Rimes. Oh, no. No, no. I'm going to make the case for John Singleton. This? This? This? This?

This? This? The Hood is by far his best movie. How could this be Apex John Sing? So Apex Mountain, the concept is when you're at your apex, peak of your powers professionally and creatively and you have the most juice and you can get the most done that you want.

It can't be boys in the hood because it's his first movie. Because, yeah, because he didn't have the juice in. I think Rosewood is his A-Bast. But I will say that this, though, I will say... This sets up Rosewood, though. But I would say that the only argument to be made by it because Rosewood is John Singleton's second best movie to me. That's a great movie.

that movie. But I would say that here, he was as a director a little hotter than Rosewood. And the only reason why I would say that is because Rosewood came out the same weekend that Booty Call came out. Yes. And I remember him. That was a huge thing. He was very upset. I remember him chastising people for having gone to see Booty Call over Rosewood or something. I remember him making a thing about it. This wasn't a big deal in Boston. What I'm saying is And John at his peak Just wouldn't have had to do that

Because everybody was running out of They would have got out of his way Also right I feel like high learning actually By way if he had made Rosewood When he made higher learning His career would have been

Completely different Yeah I agree Picking nits We've picked a lot of nits already But why is a six year senior Fudge rooming with freshmen There's a lot of problems Yeah, some stuff going on

That's not happening. Also, it looked like they had private residence halls. Like, it was like a private house. Wouldn't more people have gone to jail in this movie? There's a pretty confirmed date rape. They, she doesn't, nothing happens. But she didn't, she doesn't press charges right? That's part of the thing.

But doesn't Regina King step up for her though? No. No, Regina King steps up. The black bitch overrides the race. Jennifer Connolly asked her, do you want to go to that point? They talk about the underreporting and things like that. She goes, no, it's just going to make me feel shitty. I feel like by 95, they were more active.

I'm saying that there's a way that you handle that differently, but the way this movie handles it, I kind of, I mean, I believe it. I believe it. I was disappointed, though, when they got to that party to beat up the frappel. I just don't feel like that paid off the way it probably should have, considering she had literally just been date raped an hour earlier. But another thing about that scene is she had been date raped, but by the time they get to the party, it's completely not about that.

Right. That's the thing that's the thing that's the point at me about it. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's why I'm picking Nitz.

The cops are so bad in this movie. They're so veered toward the white people that even in that last scene, as we talked about earlier, that head campus security guard who's a fucking racist asshole

the whole movie. You can still be an engineer. And he's like genuinely doesn't want Rapport's comb stuff. It's like, this dude just shot like seven people outside. Why are you so sympathetic? But in reality,

they took Dylan Roof. That's a documentary. That's a documentary. I would pick nits with it But in reality Was Dylan Roof after this though? Yeah, well yeah Yeah, yeah

So what I'm just saying is that I can't really pick nits with it Because it happened Okay You know what I'm saying? Could this be remade as a 10 episode Netflix show is the next category? It's called Dear White People

They do it already Yeah They do it pretty well I actually think Somebody could do this as But I don't know Dear white people Really understands

How college works It really So there's no room left for higher learning. So the answer is no. Probably in answerable questions. Did Fishburn's accent work just as a movie accent? It was confusing.

It was not good. He was like from four, he was all, he was the entire African diaspora. You guys said Caribbean. I always thought he was supposed to be like a Nigerian or Ghanaian professor or something like that. I didn't know. I thought he was, I thought he was African. To the first day of filming and he's like, John, how about this accent?

I'm going to try it. And Singleton's like, ah. I feel like. He's like he knew Sydney said no, and he wanted to give it a little Sydney flavor. Okay. The N says unlearn. Mm-hmm. Oh.

That's a real Spikely move. It is. Is it too much of a Spikely move? Shout out to Spike, man. Too much of a Spikely move or an homage. Maybe a little homage. It's both. That was a thing there.

It's both. You don't think he's like right on Spike's corner? What's Spike's reaction to that? To what? Unlearn. How to, well, the question is like, dude, I'm right here. Come on. But Spike, we've never confused Spike of really knowing how to end his movies, right?

No. So, so. It is. So, I mean, Spike, you know, Spike, unlearned is one thing, but bouncing in a basketball, where out of prison where the other guy catches. Like, so this is lightworth of Spike. Spike's laughing at that. Spike's like, I could do that worse than that. Who won the movie?

I love Spike, but come on. Who won the movie? Who won the movie? Who won the movie? I think the final SR, John Singleton, and Ice Cube. I think Ice Cube. on the movie. Ice Cube.

Yeah. I think Ice Cube comes away. He comes away with the most concrete character, the most understandable, relatable character, and he is the only character who at the end of the movie has his character resolved. He finally graduates.

I also vote for Ice Cube. I would accept John Singleton, though. Even though it's a flawed movie and it's the kickoff of the flawed rewatchables. Wesa's like nobody. There were no winners. Well, no. I mean, it's something more abstract, though.

It's not like, I don't think anybody in the movie won the movie. I think it's sort of more conceptual than that. Like, it's like, uh... Colin Kaepernick? Well, then that, that's a, that's not a winner you want, right? Like, that means racism one.

Right. You know? Um, I don't know. I don't object to Ice Cube. I just feel like Ice Cube, Ice Cube just sails through the movies. I feel like nobody has ever tried to rank... This Boys in the Hood is the only wrangling

anybody's really successfully attempted. And those kids in, And are we there yet? Like, there's really been no... I mean, I don't think he really wants to do it at this point. But, like, I would love to see Ice Cube taken somewhere as an actor. Or, like, as to go somewhere. Because now, you know, the race...

In his 50s now. I'm not sure it's happening. I don't... Why not? Look, I would... I personally think Ice Cube is one of the most natural charismatic actors on screen. I think his son is... That's why I like Triple X, too.

Oh, right. I think his son is kind of his market correction now. I feel like... You think so? The son is great. He's really good. He's also good in Justin. That's our guy.

Yeah. Huge Laker fan, though. Gigantic Laker fan. Gives me shit. I've seen him multiple times, and each time it's just he gets adversarial in a fuck way right away. He's like, oh man. O'Shea Jackson.

But he's also like a good, he's just like a dude that you want to kind of just kick you with. He's just a good guy, man. But that is, that is a mark to me of a certain kind of star. And I hope the movies let him do a thing that is different from what the movies asked his father. Well, as you know, we love him on the rewatchable. He's wonderful.

We did Den of Thieves, which was shocked. We did Thees Rewatchables? Oh, yeah. Okay. Huge fan of that movie. Wesley Morris, Vian Lathen, this was A Barrel Laughs. Thanks for doing this. You guys did Dental Things.

I can't get you to do Scott Pilgrim versus the world. Oh, that's a great movie. You knew of Wesley. I'll set it out. Thanks, guys. I love Scott Fields. All right, thanks to Van and Wesley. Thanks to Pepsi with the New Year officially hearing

and everyone vowing to restrictive resolutions. Pepsi wants to usher in the new year. new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy, even in the face of others' judgment, like me wanting to do Vision Quest as a rewatchables podcast, people judge me for it here at The Ringer. They're like, when did that movie come out? Well, I'll tell you this, my friends. It's the greatest wrestling movie of all time.

And it's going to be one of the next rewatchables we do on this feed. Pepsi, that's what I like. See you next week.