The Rewatchables - ‘Love and Basketball’ With Bill Simmons and Jemele Hill

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Jemele Hill are just a couple of childhood friends striving to be professional basketball players rewatching the 2000 sports drama ‘Love and Basketball’ starring Omar Epps, Sanaa Lathan, and Dennis Haysbert. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the rewatchables on The Ringer podcast network brought to you by State Farm. Around here, we love talking about movies that we watch, rewatch, watch again because they're just that good. It's the thoughtful details, the little things other movies don't have that keep us coming back. Here's the deal. When it comes to insurance, we can't get enough for State Farm. They have all the details we appreciate to make insurance easy. Monitor your coverage, pay your bill, or even file claim through their app, which was awarded Best Insurance Mobile App 2019. and thanks to their network of 19,000 agents,

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State Farm is there. Get a quote or find an agent at State Farm. Dot com. We're also brought to you by a new podcast on the ringer. If you like the rewatchables, there's a really good chance you're going to like this one. It is called The Wire. Way down in the hole, the hosts are Van Lathen and Jamel Hill, who is on this podcast that you're about to listen to.

The first two episodes are up. You can find them on Spotify. You can find them on Apple. If you go to the Ringers Twitter feed, you can find a couple of breakouts. We put some cool video over, but this is an awesome podcast. They're going to rewatch the Wire episode by episode and do a podcast. about each one, some season-ending awards podcasts as well. So it's going to be with you here for, I don't know, two episodes a week.

It's like about 65 episodes. Yeah, it'll be like, you'll get like half a year out of this. Sign up now, the wire way down in the hole. You can subscribe on Apple, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. All's fair in love and basketball. Is it? Is it really fair? about to find out. The rewatchables coming up next.

You forgot to be there. If I stayed, I wouldn't be stark. At least you got your priority straight. Look, I'm into it draft. I'm going pro. So that's it. Just forget about you and me. New Line Cinema presents a story about the passion it takes. I never knew anyone love ball as much as you.

To keep your dreams alive. I've loved you since I was 11. And it just won't go away. This spring. I'll play you. One game one-on-one. For what? Your heart.

All's fair in love and basketball. All right, Jebel Hill is here. Your first re-watchables. This is, it's just, it's magical to watch. It's to see the training wheels come off. You just riding the bike around the re-watchables yard. And, and this is a classic movie. Yeah, it is.

I'm very excited to be here. Because I was really jealous because I listen to the rewatchables often. And so you guys recently did one of my favorite movies, which was Tommy Boy. And I'm like, one day, one day I will be called up to the big leagues to do rewatchable. So very excited to be here for this. There's one specific reason we're doing this. It's the 20-year anniversary. And then there's a big picture reason we're doing this.

I've wanted it for a while. I think, first of all, I think it might be the best sports movie the last 20 years. I think, you know, sports movies kind of takes a turn. There's a Disney stretch where it's like the rookie miracle, those kind of movies. And then it kind of starts fading out with gridiron gang and those kind of things. Has a resurgence, I think Warrior is really good. I think there's been some good ones. But I think pound for pound, this is my favorite one.

And the coolest thing is it's timeless. You know, like I watch it with my daughter that came out 20 years ago. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't miss the cell phone stuff. A lot of it is dated back in the 80s and early 90s anyway, so you're going backwards. And it's one of those things you can just watch it over and over again. Is this a rom-com or a sports movie to you? I think it's more rom-com than sports movies, even though there are some very specific

sports messages in it that I think hold up really well. This movie came out in 2000. So this is a couple years after the WMBA first started. So with all that said, kind of the subliminal messages about gender equity and sports about the WMBA, even giving us a bit of a glimpse, even though it's a very Hollywood glimpse to some degree about what life is like overseas for female basketball players, all that stuff holds up incredibly well. And as a rom-com, I think because it was built around sports. And while we were used to seeing sports rom-coms happen, they were always built a certain

way and not really from a female point of view. So it was kind of ahead of its time in that way. Although I do have, you know, I haven't watched this movie from start to finish. It's been a little bit. I mean, I tend to catch it when it's bits and pieces, catch it in bits and pieces when it's on like regular television when it's on like, you know, BT or TNT or something like that. Watching it in full, I have to say, I have many different opinions than I did when I first saw this movie then, particularly rating whether or not Quincy McCall was actually a good boyfriend, but we can get into that later. or whether he was a good basketball player.

I have that riddened out as well. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I'm not sure what position he was. He was a 5-10 shooting guard. It's not really not somebody that would be a lottery pick. But the stuff you mentioned about the gender equity and it's a theme that back then was a lot more ambitious than I think it is now. I think if you watch this in 2020 standards, that scene, there's a great scene in there

when she gets thrown out of, not thrown out of a game, but she gets a T and she gets benched. And she's talking to Quincy about it after. And he's like, you got to keep your head straight. And she comes back at him and she says, you jump in some guy's face. You talk smack and you get a pat on your ass. But because I'm a female,

I get told to calm down and act like a lady. I'm a ball player. Okay. That's the kind of, I'd never seen a conversation like that in a sports movie before. Sports movies were male dominated entirely. And really, other than a league of their own, And Girl Fight, which I think came out with maybe a year before with Michelle Rodriguez.

Is there any other sports movies where you even had conversations like that? I don't think so. And I think we have to point out the other significant factor is that we're also having this conversation inside the scope of a black family and a black dynamic, which is really revolutionary for the time. And the gender part of it, it wasn't just about her relationship with Quincy and about their differing worlds as basketball player, her being a woman, him being a man. It's also the interesting gender dynamic between her and Alfred Woodard, who plays her mom, because her mom is more traditional.

And, you know, she kind of has this Martha Stewart-like, you know, life. And those things are really important to her. And with, you know, Monica played by Sinai Latham, with her being more of a tomboy. So you have that dynamic of what does it really mean to be a woman and who's defining what womanhood is? And when you think about all these themes, those are pretty heavy. for sports movies, which is often focused on the result. It's also usually uplifting, and it's about, you know, not just winning and losing, but playing with character and integrity, like kind of all these new Rockney-like themes

that are usually in sports movies. They don't really deal this intricately with gender and certainly not with race. So it was very ahead of its time in that regard as well, because you just placed a normal situation, and the difference was you just put black people in it and had the same conversation. And you're also looking at really starting with Jerry McGuire. So sports movies have these different runs where, you know, from 74 to 85, it's just a rocky theme with different sports. Just you have some outliers. Like I think Slapshot is actually a really interesting movie. That's not just a rocky type of movie. It's got cool, well-written characters. It's got a specific theme.

It takes you into a world. But for the most part, it's that rocky blueprint. And then it kind of flips into post Hoosiers into like the comedy, you know, the major league, unnecessary roughness. We have that whole run. Then Jerry McGuire comes along in 96. And that's, it's a little like this movie, actually. It's a movie about people. It's set in sports.

It has some awesome sports movie elements. Like, it was one of the first rewatchables we did. Rod Tidwell was a character. I'd just never seen in a movie before. But it was also had a rom-com thing. And it was just really well written. and it was a movie that lived in the world of sports, but wasn't a sports movie.

And I feel like loving basketball is like that, too. It's a sports movie, but it's not. It's about the people. Her relationship with her mom is, I think, more important than her relationship with Quincy. All the dynamics than that, I hadn't really seen it that really in a movie either, the whole tomboy theme.

And then just the way, you know, it seems like they're relatively well off or they're in a nice neighborhood. it's never, never really addressed. It's all the characters of this movie are black. It's not really a thing. You're just in the world. There was a tendency, I think back then to be like,

we're making a black movie. Here are some black characters. We're going to talk about black things. And this movie was never like that. It didn't, it kind of, that was just part of what it was. It was never overt. I don't feel like ever. You agree with that?

No, I totally agree with that. And you also have to realize the error we were coming off of because we were coming off of Boys in the Hood. Minister Society. We were coming off all these very heavy black trauma related movies and then there was a turn

that was made. I don't know if it was maybe Love Jones because that came out in 97. But then you started to see like Love Jones, the wood. Then it made a turn into look, black people can fall in love. Black people can just live in a neighborhood and be coming of age and talk about adulthood.

So you started to see sort of situations and movies where black people were placed in normal situations without somebody having to be shot, without it about being something like completely traumatic or specifically related to the black experience. I wouldn't even refer to this movie more, I mean, as important as it was as a sports movie as a movie about gender, even though it had all black people and at least from what I can tell and that this might have been in like Lederra Heights.

I mean, because clearly it was like, you know, you saw Baldwin Hills. You saw them at this one scene where they're in the car together coming back from the game in their riding pass. I think it was the Crenshaw Mall, Baldwin Hills, Crenshaw Mall. And so you knew kind of about what area was in, which for people who are not from Los Angeles are not familiar with the area, like that's known as kind of like the black middle class, upper class area neighborhood. So you had that kind of important component where they were showing black people in a different light without it having to be specifically a black movie, even though I think people probably put it in that bucket of being a black.

movies. So these were all, you know, super important and ahead of its time kind of themes, considering what were the popular black movies of the moment. Like, they were just ushering in this age of like normalcy. It does feel like an era that starts late 90s. And what's interesting is a lot of the people in this movie end up in other movies together. So I made a list. It's like, so Dennis Hayesbards, he's in waiting, waiting to exhale. Oh, are absent Sana Laithan, the stars of these movie, this movie, they're in the wood a year before. They start dating, which I didn't know until I did the research. They're dating for a year.

They're hiding it from the director. They don't want the director to know that they're in like a serious relationship. Monica Calhoun, Regina Hill, and Sana Lathan, they're all in the best man and the best man holiday. Boris Cojo. How do you say his name? Cojo. Cojo.

Boris Cojo, yeah. My wife was asking last night, why wasn't that guy one of the biggest stars in the world. She was like, there was just nobody more handsome. I don't understand what happened. I was like, I don't know. I don't have an answer for you. He was with Sana Lathen and Brown Sugar. Omar Epps and Tyra Banks were dating and higher learning. She dies. Omar Epps and Dennis Haysbert were together in Major League 2. And then Gabrielle Union and Omar Epps were together in almost Christmas, 2016. I don't think I've seen a movie with more interconnected people in different movies. Well, it's also an indictment of what Hollywood was for

black actors at the time. It was like 12 of them. And they kept circulating the same 12. And because of that, I think you saw a lot of crossover and a lot of bleed over to them playing each other in different movies to the point where, and the only person missing from all those people you name was like, Nealong. Because Nealong was like literally in half of these movies where she's starring opposite, a lot of the same people that you mentioned. So some of it was about the trajectory. It was very limited. It's still, you know, it's better now, but it was very limited then for black actors and actresses. And it's funny to say that about Boris Kojo because not too long after that he, I think he, I'm trying to remember when the series Soul Food started because that's

where he got his biggest break because the series Soul Food on Showtime. And he started dating and then later marrying Nicole Ari Parker. And that was something that was also a treat because I'm looking at this movie and you're seeing certain faces. You're like, oh, a young Regina Hall. Oh, a young Gabrielle Union. Oh, a young Monica Calhoun, who also was in one of my favorites, Guilty Pleasure movies, Players Club, which you ever touch Players Club, Bill. I'm your woman on that one. All right. You ever touch it? I don't see that being in your purview, but if for some reason you decide to go there, then that's where it is. And so, you know, Monica Calhoun is on the scene. So you look and you can literally see kind of this pool of black actors and actresses. And, of, Of course, this movie was directed by Gina Prince Blithewood, who is a black woman and also somebody, a big fan of basketball. So it was just a lot of, you could definitely play a Kevin Bacon sort of game with this cast

because they are all interconnected. And Omar Epps has this crazy 90s run. And going back to your point about how there just wasn't a lot of opportunities for black actors and actresses, he kind of just becomes the go-to guy for all these movies. I mean, I wrote down just his career arc, the characters he played where they were in their lives. So in Juice, he's in high school. The program is next. He's in college.

Major League 2 is an adult. Higher learning, he's back in college. Don't be a menace. He's in high school. ER, he's out of med school. Now he's a doctor. Scream 2, he's back in high school. The Mod Squad, he's an adult.

The Wood, he's an adult. And that love of basketball, he's back in high school again. This guy, he was moving around in 15. year spans. And it's weird, like, especially in this movie, he's, he's 27, Sonna Lathen's 29, they're playing high schoolers. It's, it's a little strange to me that they had to play the Omar Eps car, but then I don't know really, like, who else would have been in 2000? Well, the other big person, you know, in terms of black actors, was probably Morris Chestnut. And, um, right, him or Lorenz Tate, like, legit, it was probably like five Tate Diggs,

because Tate Diggs, you know, he was in bed. best man. He was in the wood. All the people that you, the other black men that you saw in those other movies that you mentioned where they're all interconnected were probably his competition. Now, I don't know how it was like. Wood Harris? Wood Harris. I wonder if Wood got a look. Wouldn't have been Wood Harris? I don't know. Because I'm trying to think of the roles that he was playing at the time because of course they're all being kind of type cast. But so they were looking for kind of romantic comedy black guy, which Morris Chestnut had the cottage industry on that and so did Tay Diggs.

And so that's why when you put them together in the best man, it was like Voltron forming. So, but those probably would have been, and I wouldn't be surprised that, and maybe this, I had Omar Epps on my own podcast not too long ago, and maybe this is

the question I should have asked him is who else was up for that role. Like in higher learning, I believe Tupac was supposed to be in that. And he was supposed to play the character that he played. I would not be surprised if a lot of the actors that were in Love and Basketball read for various parts. Or like if Gabrielle Union originally, if they had her reading first and I,

like I would guess it was probably a lot of mixing and mingling with this cast. And by the way, this was happening with white actors in 90s too, because when I had Matt Damon on the pod, he said it was like the same six people going for every row. It was him, Chris O'Donnell, Ed Norton, Affleck, and they would just all see each other and start laughing because they were all trying to, you know, their typecasts,

as these specific preppy-looking guys. So a movie like The Chamber or a movie like St. of a Woman, they're all going primal fear. They're all going for the same roles. You mentioned Jean and Prince Brithwood. So this movie, she writes the script a couple years before and it gets in a good spot. And this is right around the time Spike Lee and some other people

are trying to advance the cause of, you know, unproven black voices, young black voices. and Spike gets behind this. He produces it with 40 acres and a mule. But the big thing was the casting. And I'm going to spoil casting what if's here now. So she has two people. First of all, she tries 700 people for Monica.

700? What? Everybody. Everybody. She's looking at it forever. And she said, quote, was very important to me to have an athlete. So when we started auditions, they had to read, but they also had to meet me on the court.

She said they read Serena Williams, but she was unavailable. How about that? Wow. She read Marion Jones on tape. That didn't happen. That would not have aged well. That would not have age well. Huffington posted an oral history about this movie five years ago, so a lot of that's in there.

So it said it came down to Sana Lathen and Naisha Butler, who was a star at Georgia Tech. Sonna Lathan had never touched a basketball. Naisha Butler couldn't act. So she said, I put Sana Lathen with a basketball coach for two months and Naisha with an acting coach. And then Sana had improved but not completely. She was better, but you couldn't throw her out in a game and have her hang. And then she said, my husband finally asked,

this is a basketball movie or is a love story. At the end of the day, I realized it was a love story and you can fake a jump shot, but you can't fake a close-up. Did you know that she hadn't touched a basketball before this movie? I did know this because back when I was at ESPN, we had, and, you know, according to those who wrote about it, it was one of the moments where you knew ESPN had gotten too liberal. We had Gina Prince Bythwood and Sinai Lathen on Sports Center because they were promoting their new show, Shots Fire, which I think was on Fox. And it was actually kind of close to an anniversary of loving basketball, not one as significant. is the one this year, but like it was, you know, just a couple years ago.

So it was 16th or 17 somewhere in that neighborhood. So we talked about the movie and Sinai said that she, that she had never picked up a basketball and she had to go through two months of vigorous training to try to make it look at least believable. And I'll say this. I don't know, and I'm somebody who dabbled at playing basketball, it was never my sport in high school, fast pitch softball was my sport. I don't know if I would be where she was after two months.

I don't. Because she actually, I'm not saying that she, you know, she didn't look like Cynthia Cooper out there or anything. But she made it look, she looked more believable to me as a basketball player than Omar Epps did. And I don't know what his history is with it as well. But she looked more believable. So I always thought she was really believable. And then when I did the research before I watched it last night. And so now I'm like really laser focused on it.

A couple things. She gets better as the movie goes. long. When she's in high school, they're really trying to do these sneaky cuts so you don't really see that much of her playing basketball. The best example of this ever was summer catch with Freddie Prince because apparently he just couldn't pitch. So he would do the motion and then they would just cut to behind him and you'd never actually just see him throw a baseball. In this, in the high school scene where they lose in the championship game, there's a lot of like quick cuts and camera pretending to be her. And so they kind of hide her.

get to college, she's in the scrimmages and stuff. And you can see with the handle, like she looks down a couple times. There's little things like that. We're like, oh, yeah, I get it. But for the most part, she moves like an athlete. She carries herself like an athlete. And then by the time we get to the final game, the climactic ending, she must have had four or five months of training at that point.

That one-on-one game is pretty believable. Yeah, no. She's got crossovers. Yeah, her defense is good. She's got a nice jump shot at that point. But what's crazy is she said she was so scarred by the experience. She never touched the basketball again because the director was just never happy with her basketball. And she always kind of felt like, oh, man, I had to work so hard to get this part.

She still doesn't totally believe me. It kind of mirrors what happens in the movie when she goes to USC, where it's like the coach didn't really want her. But it's just I never knew any of that stuff until last night. And I think she really pulled it off. So here's something she deserves credit for. If you remember when she's at USC, and of course it's, you know, one of the standout scenes and kind of is,

you know, illuminating this tension that she has with her coach. It just her being a young player, freshman, kind of cocky, you know, normal stuff that you see out of a freshman athlete. And when she pulls up for three on the break and then holds her hand up, I just want to point out this was in 2000.

This was before the Warriors were doing that. This is before Steph Curry was doing that. That in itself, and I remember thinking watching that movie, because at that point I was three years into my professional career as a sports journalist, I was thinking to myself, who the hell would have an open layup and pull up for three on a break? That's ridiculous. Your coach would bench you for that. And she did it.

She made the shot. And then now, fast forward, it's 2020. And that's all any of the players do now. Ahead of her time. Ahead of her time. One thing that she got down, which I'm surprised. surprised if she was just getting coach was just kind of the movement of basketball, you know, moving through screens, playing defense, stuff like that.

That could go really badly. I actually think Omar Epps, who I think really did play basketball and was supposedly a good basketball player, was a no-brainer casting. I thought his basketball was way less believable. And I want to cover that later. I don't want to do that now. So Gina said the reason she made this movie, grown-up ball was everything to me. I'm an athlete first and always have.

been it's been so much a part of my life. I just didn't feel like that I ever saw that woman or girl reflected on screen. And I'm going back to 2000. She's right. It was basically a league of their own. And a league of their own became, you know, a really important movie over the last 30 years just because it had female athletes kind of hanging out and the same interactions, all that stuff.

But Sana Latham says just big picture for this movie. it's so cool and amazing that it became this beloved film that people love. Last night I went to dinner and these two girls came up to me and said they grew up on the movie and they're looking for their cue. Who knew when I was shooting it? I had no idea. To me, I was just coming in every day and doing the work. It's one of those things that happen once or a while.

Not very often does a film speak to different generations across cultural and gender lines. You know, my daughter, the first time we watched this movie, she must have been eight. And she watched again with me last night. She's probably seen it seven times. It's a little awkward The virginity scene But I was fast forwarding Through that last thing

She's like, Dad, you don't need to for them through it It's PG-13 But it is The whole generational thing Did you ever expect that 20 years ago That it would be this movie That would just live on?

I actually thought it had a pretty good Chance of having some real staying power Oh, and by the way, real quick Is this the same daughter That you tried to watch Insecure with? Because I saw your tweet. Yeah, that lasted two minutes. I was like, she's ready.

It won't be that bad. And then as I had the remote ready, though. So as soon as I saw the TSA agent about to go to town, I was like, all right, all right, okay, bad idea. But yeah, that was the wrong episode for that. Kudos to you. I was like, oh, look at that. It could have been a nice moment. I wonder how long.

Because that was the first question I was thinking in my mind when I saw your tweet. At what point did he turn it off because it was kind of littered throughout. Yeah. So it only made it a couple minutes. Two seconds. Two seconds. All right. But no, I thought it really did have some staying power just because for me, when I saw it, I identified, I felt I was Monica. I was a neighborhood tomboy. Certainly was used to, you know, little boys early on. They try to, they go harder at you because you're a woman and they feel like you're in your girl, rather, and they feel like you're in their space. So I very much understood that dynamic of always having to prove that you knew more, that you were just as fast, that, you know. you know, you could handle yourself just as an athlete.

It's just, again, basketball wasn't my sport. We used to play a lot of touch football, or not touch football, sorry, tackle football. And I was the quarterback. And so as much as I hated Notre Dame, I was always imitating Tony Rice, which was kind of weird. Tony. Yeah. Because you run in the option, like, that's awesome if you're a quarterback. You have the ball in your hands.

I mean, you have the ball in your hands anyway, but you really have the ball in your hands if you're running the option back when I had a few wheels left. But so I could definitely understand that awkwardness of being into these things that girls aren't traditionally into. And my mother, while she was not as prissy as Alphrey Woodard, she would often be confused. Like I don't understand. Why are you always playing with these little boys? You're a girl. You're not supposed to be roughhousing.

And if I'm coming back home, I'm coming back from outside and I have like scrapes on me, like little little kid stuff. And she'd be freaking out saying I was too rough or too aggressive. And so from that standpoint that I knew there was a generation of girls who had lived that experience. And even going, you know, through high school and through college, especially if their careers, athletic careers, stayed with them, that they then had to deal with maybe not being as seen compared to. Because she makes it, you know, we were talking a moment ago about how they had all these gender equity messages. They weren't just about just their sport. But I remember her making the comment to cue. I don't have some red carpet waiting for me like you do.

And so there's this constant illusion that at some point she's very cognizant that this ride is going to be over. And I think a lot of women who grew up playing sports, that was always in the back of your mind as well. Like, okay, we know this is going to end at some point. It can't go on forever. And with that being the case and with this movie coming out just a couple years into the WNBA, it was easy to see where those generational points would merge. And even now, while obviously the WNBA has gotten bigger, women's basketball, especially college women's basketball, has exploded.

You see what the ratings do in college softball for ESPN. Those themes that they deal with in this movie are still persistent. It's still about being seen. And so that's why I thought that even from the first time I saw it, that this would be a movie that a lot of women, women would be able to relate to and relate to for a long time. Yeah, you know, it's funny because my daughter, she's 14 now, but, you know, she was always a really good athlete even as a little kid.

And it's interesting to watch the 10-year-old Monica parts because I think all little girls hit that point somewhere between, you know, they're probably 8, 9, 10, somewhere in there where they're really good, they can hang with the boys, but they start realizing like, all right, am I going to go the tomboy way? Do I also want to go the girl's side? Like, you almost become bipolar in some way with, you have these two different identities you're trying to figure out at the same time and how to mesh that.

And I remember when she turned like 11, it became a thing. Like, she was playing sports all the time, but was also really trying to figure out the girl side of things. And the Monica stuff, when she's 10 in this movie, when they're like doing her hair, when they make her wear their dress to all that stuff it's just so good you know and it's stuff that just wasn't in movies really at all that little balance and you can see it even when she goes to college same thing like just trying to figure out what is it by the time she gets the job at the

bank when she's an adult all the sudden she's all dolled out looks great but you can tell she it's not her right and uh i just i like how they navigate that and i think that was a big part of why jean and probably wanted to make this movie like what's a that balance? What's that balance of femininity and being a great athlete? I haven't seen another movie balance it the way this one does. Well, and it's such a nuanced take, if you think about it for a movie, is to dive deep into the layers of womanhood. We're used to saying men kind of get that treatment about what manhood means. And a lot of times that treatment is through either sexuality or conquest or something like that or even bravery and bravado. But with women, normally, it's a lot of

And this even applies to movies that aren't about sports, that the nuanced treatment that she gave womanhood is really a real good model. And I thought it was important that she showed the progression of that, as you pointed out, that there's a certain progression when you're younger and you're trying to fit in because that's the most important thing to you. Then she gets to a point where she's like, you know, to hell would fit in, I'm just going to be me.

And even when she's older, because it's that scene where she is coming home from the bank, the first thing she does is take off her heels right there on the grass. And that shows you, and I think it's a really heartwarming moment because it shows you that that Tom girl inside of her will never go away, that she's not going to let it be pushed out by these societal norms about how women are supposed to act. And I thought that they were kind of making that statement as well by choosing the love interest, the other love interest, is in Tyra Banks.

what she looked like in her demeanor versus what Sinai Lathen was. Like that was a statement in itself, right? That was a statement in itself because they picked sort of a very interesting caricature because she's a flight attendant, right? And she's very catering to him and very, you know, much in many ways

like Sinai Lathen's mom would be with a man. And so she gets to see like, oh, okay, well, I'm here for him. I don't know if I'm, you know, practically spoon feeding him his cereal or whatever. So they're showing you kind of different dynamics and how that can even make Tom girls. Because I know I certainly felt this growing up. It's like femininity made me feel super insecure. Like you'd be around all these super girly girls who were wearing makeup and talking about boys. And I started to feel like something was wrong with me

because those weren't things I was necessarily into. And so I thought it did a really good job, just visually kind of communicating that. Yeah, I agree. Epps said, it's a sort of that fairy tale love story for women. Monica and Quincy had a real friendship, and that's the basis of every great relationship, which is really hard to do. I think that part of it is timeless. I think that's what I like the most about this movie.

I love movies. This is one of my weaknesses as a movie fan. The movies where we watch people get older, and especially if it's rooted, like they knew each other way back when, and now they're growing up, and now they're at this stage, and now they're at that stage.

I'm always in on that. I thought this movie did one of the best versions of that. Even like the stuff when he's in high school before they've even hooked up and his mom and his dad are fighting and he just kind of is like, fuck this and opens the window and goes in her thing and she knows he's going to come in and she just throws him the pill in the blanket and he sleeps on the floor. It's so subtle. But when you see that, you're like, oh, like these people have a real connection.

And then it pays off in the last part of the movie. But it's funny how many movies just squander that or do it incorrectly or like try to show you. These two have a connection and they just do it wrong. And this is like all the subtleties is what I like the most about this movie. Yeah. Well, even the subtle decision to start this movie when they were kids. Yeah. I think that was kind of a big decision to make.

Because they could very easily have sped this up and maybe started it when they were in high school and kind of gone through using the traditional. tropes that we see kind of romances play out. But I think what Omar Epp said was really important is that the fact that this was rooted in friendship, meaning that they had a different level of respect for each other than maybe you might see in relationships that just start off with one lever of just romantic or bust. I mean, that's not to suggest that they were going to be best friends if it didn't work out because that clearly wasn't the case. But it is to say that there is valuing one another that is.

isn't always sexual. Because aside from the virginity scene, this was not an overtly sexual movie. And even the virginity scene was treated kind of with care. And yeah, you had the sort of slightly somewhat, I mean, allusion to some ranch in college when they're playing strip basketball or whatever. But beyond that, I thought that they kept the romance kind of sweet and innocent on purpose because I think they did want to highlight the fact that they had a connection that was deeper than just something physical. I also like that they were honest about, you know, if you're somebody like Quincy, you got to watch out.

There's some women that are going to be coming at you. And that speech his dad has about you're in the hotel lobby. There's 100 people downstairs and 20 of them can get through security. Obviously really ridiculous and exaggerated. But it was interesting to hear all these different characters in the movie talk about the threat of watch out who you end up with. Be careful. And he's got this perfect person sitting there that he doesn't even realize it's the perfect person.

Although I will say, if you go back and break down that speech, that was another one of those moments that jumped out to me. His father didn't give the best defense of himself. No. Not at all. No, he's not likeable. He's not in that moment. You know, I thought as a father, he was like great.

But in that moment, when he's like, you got to hear him, he basically is trying to implore him that he has a side to the story that may change his mind. And I'm like, dude, that didn't come out the way you think it did. That wasn't the winning argument that you thought it was, especially when he's like, I wasn't ready for no marriage. So you implied his mother, trapped him. And then you're like, basically it's too many hells out here. And that's why I can't be faithful.

I can't be blamed. I can't be blamed. I am a victim. And it's just like, bro, that did not go the way that you think that it went. I like seeing that in a movie, though, because I do think probably, I think that was realistic. I'm sure Quincy's dad, that person has had that conversation with his son who was an NBA player or whatever, who that was their defense. Like, you know, man, they're just coming at you. At some point, what can you do?

It's like, really? That's your defense. Yeah. Well, a smaller sports question than I have for you. And hopefully this, I'm not ruining or spoiling anything for later. how did you feel about the decision to make his dad a clipper? I have that later. You have that later?

Let's hold that. I wonder what you would think about that. All right. So this movie made $27 million in the U.S. 9th all time for a hoop film, 37th all time for a sports drama. But I'm sure it's been watched and rewatched more than that. Roger Ebert, who's had an up and down 2020 in the rewatchable,

it was three out of four stars. The film is not, okay. Yeah. The film is not as taught as it could have been. but I prefer its emotional perception to the pumped up sports cliches I was sort of expecting. It's about the pressures of being

a star athlete the whole life, not the game highlights. Fair. The reviews were pretty lukewarm in some spots. I was surprised. Some people got it. Other people were like, eh. And I think that happens a lot with movies that we do on these.

Sometimes when people see it the first time, they miss a lot of the nuance. And you almost, I think this is a movie. I remember in the, I remember writing about it from my own website, because I was at ESPN at that point. I loved it right away, but I also didn't realize it was going to be as rewatchable as I think it has been. Most rewatchable scene. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to give you six.

And if I left anything out, jump in after. So first one, the opening kids basketball scene with Candy Girl. It's just everything is perfect about it. The musical choice is just perfect. The scene is part. They're taking off the hat with the hair. Their reaction to her. Oh, man?

He is a girl. That girls can't play no ball. Ball better than you. Her game, Quincy kind of slowly talking himself into it. The foul. The way she handles the scar. She kind of likes it. She's looking at it, like touched it.

I love everything about it. I mean, that's almost a perfect flashback scene. Usually those go badly, right? Yeah. do, but I think that this one was really well done. And the musical choice, it might I just say if people, if you focus on the music

in this whole movie, this soundtrack is amazing. A ton, I mean, you had, like you pointed out a new edition, you got Maxwell, you have Guy, you have Roger Troutman, like, it is, you have Raphael Sadiq. I mean, it is a really... Shaka Khan.

Shaka Khan, you have a strong soundtrack and it kind of, in a way, it makes me kind of wistful because there was a collection of movies and especially black movies where the soundtrack was often better than the movie and people were living to go to I guess

we were in the CDs at that point living to go to like you know Virgin or you know Best Buy or blockbuster music and buy these CDs because the soundtracks were so fire so I think you have kind of an upbeat new edition song a nostalgic group

you have them you know battling back and forth and it just it kind of kind of was the perfect jump start to their relationship. And actually the first song of the whole movie is Love and Happiness by Al Green, which is that is right. Yeah, which is a classic. But if you go on Spotify, not to plug Spotify, even though we love Spotify, but I'm kind of plugging Spotify, they have those playlists where you can just, you put in love and basketball.

And there's multiple playlists. They're really good. Like the songs are good. Even like they use Simply Red holding back the years. That was a huge song. And then this woman's work was the MTV unplugged remake was it of the Cape Bush song, which, you know, has its own things where you're actually using something that happened in front of an audience. But Marvin Gay is in here. I had that in What Stage the best, but I think it's an important one to cover anyway.

Next scene I have Monica finding out she's going to USC and going through the window and all that stuff. I'm also happy. I like the basketball, the championship game, and all that stuff I think could potentially be a rewatchable too. But I like the whole getting the letter looking at it. Where is she? It was on my desk when I came home. What you're right for?

Can you? Sure. What? They want you? She kind of wants him to read it. And it leads to all the stuff that comes after. Monica at USC taking the charge. to win the game.

But then the locker room after, one of the things I really love about this movie is some of the basketball team stuff and them in the making fun of each other and the way they interact and the weightlifting, it's only maybe three scenes, but really well done. I really do feel like they're a team.

I don't know how they pulled that out. Obviously, Gina played, so she had a good sense of what to do. But it really had, I remember at the Holy Cross, our women's team, to know, you know, them a little bit. But it was the same kind of dynamic. Like you have all these people from all these different parts of the country.

You have some tall ones. You have some tiny ones. And there's a lot of like ball busting. And I just thought they nailed that. Anything to add on that for a moment? Yeah. What I was going to say, too, I think what struck me about that is showing how competitive women can be.

Yeah. Because sometimes that we saw that. I think that's one of the things that made League of their own so special is that you saw that that competitive. of nature that women have because I think sometimes that tends to be dulled a little bit. But I thought the tension between her and Cidra, the senior whose job she's coming after, I thought that was a nice, a very nice sort of subplot within the larger plot of her trying to stake her position.

And it's something that's obviously common in sports. But I think sometimes people don't associate that level of competitiveness and pettiness to occur between female athletes. So I thought that was even more important to highlight that dynamic. Yeah, I agree. I'm throwing this in there. It probably is a typical choice. But I love when she goes overseas.

I love that whole six-minute stretch. The Spanish basketball, her having dinner, Cedra talking about how the Italian guys love her. Like I'm just all in on that whole section. Her in Barcelona. It gets you thinking of, you know, this seems great. They're treated like heroes. They're getting paid.

but, you know, the underlying theme is like, this sucks. Like this is, they have to go to some weird country where they don't speak the language. The coach is yelling at them in Spanish. And this is their only alternative for women's basketball. But that has to be in the rewatchable, right? Am I wrong on that or should I be? No, no, you're not wrong. No, you're not wrong on that.

And then there was an even more nuanced thing in that is when Sidra tells her, you know, these Italians love black women. And when she's talking about her own experience, and she's just, you know, kind of obviously chiding her because she hasn't hooked up with anybody while she's been over there. The thing is that is actually, I don't know if it's true or if it's more stereotyped in truth, but that's a common thing talked about among black women is about when you go overseas, that if you go to Italy, you go to Spain, that the men respond to you different. I call it the Josephine Baker syndrome because she, Josephine Baker, the famed artists, you know, who wound up having a great deal of success

in Paris and whatever. And so that's always been kind of a running both truism and stereotype that European men love black women. So I thought I chuckled when I saw that the first time because I was like, oh yeah, because people always talk about that. So I was like, look at them digging even deeper into things.

I could have had a bad. basketball scene thrown in there, too. I would have liked to have seen the outcome of the championship game. Two more rewatchable scenes. Her and her mom in the kitchen is just a great scene. It's really well written. The one where her mom slaps her, right? That one. Yeah. Yeah. All of it. And some deep, dark shit is coming up and they don't really realize that that's going to happen, but it does. And it just kind of happens. And the mom is unbelievable in that scene. Both of them are really good. I think that's probably the best scene in the movie. I don't know if it's the most rewatchable, but it's really, really well acted. And it pays off the mom character that you're

not really sure what the point of the mom is for the first hour and a half other than just the cliche of the mom who can't believe she had a tomboy. But it's like, is this going to pay off? And then it like pays off big time. My family had three meals a day. They had somebody to pick up after them. And when my daughters went to a dance, I could help them get ready. That is what I came to care about. That's all you cared about. I must have played in a thousand games. And I can only remember you being at two. You had your coaches and your daddy and everybody in that stuff. You knew it never mattered to you one way or another while I was at them games. It mattered, Mom. Yeah, and I thought it was important that they gave that scene some depth.

And they gave Alprey Wooder some depth. I think they kind of tried to fool you a little bit by saying, oh, she's going to be the typical mom that wants the girly girl and she's going to stand in her way this whole movie. And while she didn't necessarily, I wouldn't have characterized her as somebody who stood in her way. But I think by having that tension between them, it actually made when things kind of turned around in the end,

it made that even more rewarding. And kudos to both of them because it felt so real that they're really, that they really were always going to be kind of distant and tense with one another. So I thought, and mothers and daughters go through those kind of things. I mean, I'm sure you've witnessed these things as in your household, right? Sometimes it's been World War III between mothers and daughters. I mean, they're natural enemies. It's like, I ran in Iraq.

It's just not going to work. And it's amazing to watch. There's like real love, obviously. but it's a daughter's ability to just annoy her mom is unparalleled. Like the mom's just, just, they want so many things to be different about them. And it's just not and it drives them crazy. That seems awesome. And then the famous ending.

I'll play you. What? One game one-on-one. For what? Your heart. You're out of your mind. So what, you're going to bitch up? Huh.

What's that supposed to be? Some psychology. Look, I know why you broke up with me in college. And not that it wasn't messed up. But I should have been there for you. Sia Lathan's incredible in that scene. Omar taken off the brace. It's getting serious now.

You Make a Fool of Me song. Perfect choice. Michelle in Dale cello. Shout out to her. And then really good ending where you think she's going to win and she doesn't. He wins. and the way she reacts to that, like, oh my God, I just lost this guy. Not only lost the game, but lost this guy.

Everything she does with her face and her mannerisms, and she walks away like a loser. And then he does the hey, double or nothing. And all of a sudden, we're at the WMBA game. There's a kid. She's got the hyphen on her jersey. It's such a good ending. It's a great, great, great last 10 minutes. And actually a really good basketball game.

It's not like Ray Allen against Denzel and he got game or anything. but it's it's solid. They pulled it off, right? Yeah, no, they definitely pulled it off. You know, at first he was kind of running circles around him. Clearly, he, hey, when he said he had picked up a basketball in four months, he wouldn't lying because he certainly looked a little, you know, rusty. But I think the overall thing was that it brought out the,

they brought out the best in each other. So some parts of that basketball scene, I think why it works so well to end that way is that it was indicative kind of their relationship that they could bring out the best of each other. However, that being said, on GamePoint, might I ask, might I add, on GamePoint, I have a beef. I have a beef on Game Point. She choked. She choked, but I wondered in the back of my mind, and this will get into Marin at some point where I lobby for the fact that Q was actually not a good boyfriend. But she chokes and, you know, she goes to holiest or whatever. But when he gets game point on her, he does it in the most aggressive way possible where he like shoves her down, then he dunks on her.

And I'm like, so, all right, that's kind of indicative of basically how your whole relationship was, particularly in the bad parts. And he seems sort of proud of himself that he does it. And I know he kind of turns around a minute later. But I was just like, that was quite the microcosm of their whole relationship. Yeah, I always took that as he was hit rock bottom in a lot of ways. and he just wanted to win. Right. And was just like,

I need to feel good about myself for two seconds. But then he realizes what a fucking dick he was with the whole thing. Right. If they do that in 2020, he probably just shoots a three, right? I would like to think so. Yeah, I don't think there's a physical component to the last thing. Any other rewatchable scenes for you?

For me, I thought that their argument that they had when he told her, that they were going pro, that that was a good, that he was going pro rather, that that was a good rewatchable scene for me, because I think it often, it got at kind of the tension, I think that sometimes not just with an athlete,

but successful women can feel that they have to choose one, that they either have to choose a relationship or they have to choose to have a successful professional career that those two things can't coexist. And so I thought that that scene, that the honesty and rawness in that scene kind of brought out a situation that we all, you know, kind of have been through in some form of fashion throughout our lives, is that, oh, okay, because women are constantly asking themselves, you know, do you want to be an awesome professional or do you want to be happy as if those two things are in two separate worlds? And so I thought that they did a really good job of kind of highlighting that part of it. That night, you wanted to talk about your dad. I had curfew. What was I supposed to do?

Stay. If I stayed, I wouldn't be start. Or at least you got your priority straight. I never asked you to choose. You never have to. I'm a ball player. If anybody knows what that means, it should be you. If basketball is all you care about, why are you boning me?

I kind of agree with you on something you said earlier is that the, um, usually in sports movies, I don't actually enjoy the sports scenes. I don't because I, like you, sure you're watching them and you're like super critical like yeah like it wasn't really that just didn't look believable at all but I alluded to this scene earlier but I definitely thought that the scene where she she's punished for uh shooting that three uh on the break well really it's the showboating she's punishing for not the actual act that's always one of that has always been one of my favorite scenes in the movie just because I thought it was such a teachable moment

um yeah because even though there were some things that she did that I think if she's a man that it probably wouldn't be judged that way, that that was a good aha moment for her. And it kind of started her evolution as a better teammate. And so it was like a really kickoff, you know, kind of scene, you know, for me. And of course, you know, when she takes the charge, I mean, it's like she takes the charge, you feel like, okay, so she goes from being a little bit bratty, kind of being a pain in the ass to she's rewarded with not hitting the game winning shot, but actually, doing something kind of selfless. And so as somebody who was a former high school athlete and kind of digs those kind of corny themes about sports, those were like very rewatchable moments for me. I'm going with the last 10 minutes as most rewatchable.

The basketball game to the WMBA. I really enjoy the WMBA. It's definitely the most people that probably went to a WMBA game in the first four years. It's like a packed house at the staple center. You know, I was looking for that. And I had not, every time I've seen loving basketball since it came out, I never looked at the crowd. When I rewatched it for this, I looked at the crowd. I was like, huh, I wonder how true to this it was.

I actually did see some empty seats, but it was more, I mean, obviously they were focused on the joyousness and the boisterousness of the crowd. But I had that same thought. Like, wow, in the early years, I don't know if they were drawing like that. 15,000 for a mid-season game. All right. What's Age the Best. We talked about this. The soundtrack is just epic.

I really loved when he asked, you want to be my girl. I just thought that was adorable, the 11-year-old Quincy. I just like Dennis Haysbert. Like, for me, he's just the what's age the best? Like, this is, he's in heat. He's a way to exhale.

And then he has this, like, he's a major league, obviously. He's one of the more famous sports movie characters. He's a bunch of other stuff, but has this resurgence with this movie. And then he's the president. 24. He's our first black president. It was David Palmer.

He paved the way for Obama. He did. And he's never given the credit he deserves. And then became the Allstate guy. He moved quickly into commercials. But I just always liked him. He's basically the same in every single movie TV show. he does. But in this one,

I just kind of liked having him around. It brought me back to President 24, Jack Bauer, the whole thing. What's funny is that whenever he's been in movies, and I guess writing to X-L would probably be the most comparison, he's kind of the borderline ain't shit dude, often on more of the ain't shit side.

Because I'm waiting at X-L, he wasn't shit, right? And so he's kind of the same guy that he was in that except for that guy had no redeemable qualities. And this one, I think he did. Because he is a caring, loving father. He's just a shitty husband, right? And so I thought bringing in that dynamic of him and Q's relationship, that was also one of those kind of nuanced things in this film that you had somebody trying to, as in Q, trying to live up to who his father was.

And you also have this dynamic of, I think he, even when he hurt the fights in high school and that kind of stuff, he had a very idyllic picture of what his parents' relationship was like. And when he started to find out it was not as a. it was not as, you know, it just wasn't as together as he thought. Then he starts not only questioning his father, but I think to some degree he sort of questions that his life has been some kind of lie. And it really hit him hard. And I thought it was kind of, you know, cool that they played off that particular relationship. But I thought he aged pretty well.

And honestly, if you think about the casting overall, it all aged pretty well. I mean, like people may have varying degrees. of, you know, of how much they like some of these actors or actresses, but like the people in this movie went on to have pretty solid careers that you can see. Omar Epps has, honestly, it feels like he has reinvented himself in a good way like every five years. Because we forget, like, it was on house for a long time as well. And, you know, yeah, and E.R, that was the other one I was thinking of. And so he, you know, for him to go from a film actor. And you mentioned his first few films, his first three or four films out the

gate. I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous start to your career. To start with juice. I mean, like, you know what I'm saying? So he had a great career. I know Sena Latham's career to some degree has been up and down, but she's steady and she's consistent. And she's kind of been there for now for the last two decades. Gabrielle Union, we see what happened to her career. Monica Calhoun has had some bright moments through hers. And even though, you know, your wife was thinking that Boris Kojo was Idris Elba before Idris Elba. Yeah. Yeah, he was able to kind of have a solid career as well. So I thought the casting and even the little girl who played young Monica, Kyla Pratt, I mean, she goes on to have a TV series. So it's like the casting was actually really well done in high side. That's pretty good. Yeah, pretty good run. So I think that age pretty good. High school cheerleaders, you want to do a quick, what's age the best on that? Man, yes. Thank you for not letting me forget this. So for those who have.

never been to any sporting event, high school sporting event involving a mostly black school. That ugly is one I heard throughout my whole high school career. And we came up with even worse.

Some of which our cheerleaders would sneak some cuss words in there until they got like shut down or whatnot. But I was like shout out to the black high school cheerleaders man, before bringing on, here they were doing their thing, you know, before Gabrielle Union lay her crew to the ultimate victory over Kirsten Dutz, it was those young ladies. Well, it's funny.

My whole family loves All-American, which is also Crunch on High. Yes, yeah, love that. That is definitely the sanitized television version of the cheerleader experience. This is like the actual cheerleader experience. Yeah, that has aged super well. And, you know, it just, it was one of, this, this movie also, I think is so rewatchable because it hits on the perfect balance of having themes that still fit the present, but also giving you that nostalgia you need for the past. Like, that's why I think the soundtrack is, is so major in this. And as you pointed out, you know, starting the movie out with new edition.

And it just kind of takes you back to, to the innocence of like, you know, growing up in that kind of neighborhood. And even how boys used to ask them, we used to call it, well, they would usually say, will you go with me? Not like, will you be my girl? I'd be like, will you go with me or whatever? That was the thing.

So I had to laugh. I laughed out loud when I saw that scene. I was like, yeah, that's kind of how they used to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I have a couple more, what's age the best. The USC coaches,

late 1980s, women's basketball coach haircut, which I think, when did that haircut officially expire? Like 95, 96. When did that go out of style? She definitely wore a shoulder pass too, which is a perfect tribute to the 90s, the mid-90s.

That was just a perfect personification of how 90% of the coaches just looked. Monica and Q outside her house near the end when she says, when you're a kid, you see the life you want, it never turns out that way. When you're a kid, you see the life you want. It never crosses your mind that it's not going to turn out that way. It's really pointed. I like that one. It's a good high school yearbook quote. I also have when there's that love triangle thing, when it's going bad for them in USC and all of a sudden

he's bringing some girl to KFC and she's in the suite. Monica's in the suite. But then the two roommates are there playing video games and they're kind of like, oh, they're laughing. Shout out to Charles O'Bannon. I love that because it's like just the classic thing that happened in college all the time, right? The roommates kind of enjoying some sort of drama. They're just kind of having popcorn and watching the whole thing unfold. Well, along those same lines, one of the scenes I would also point out that age the best is the party scene where that first kind of, their relationship kind of first exploded. Because I have seen that situation too many times, a little too much alcohol, available girl for the

second some you know she walks in and sees them kind of politicking with each other she's like yo what's up with that and then it was just like that was kind of the start of all the bad things that kind of happened over next you know 15 minutes so it's like it's so I've seen so many breakups at college parties it's just like not even funny uh that's that's the W. That's all I have any other what's aged the best before we move on well I thought and I alluded to this earlier I thought their subtle conversations about gender all aged incredibly well to pointing out, you know, again, the choices that women feel like they're confronted with between a personal professional life to just the lack of visibility sometimes in pursuing what you love

that women have to experience. I thought it was, it just nailed that, you know, kind of head on. and even some of the complicated dynamics that can be. Another thing I think that age really well is the complication of when you're an ex-player. Because they didn't spend a lot of time on it, but they spent just enough time with Dennis Haysburg. And even though, yeah, he was using the late-night meetings to obviously creep around, but he talked a lot about him trying to build a life for himself now that he wasn't playing and the stress and the pressure that he felt from that, which is, as you know, is a very real thing, is that once guys stop playing sports, we have.

have to remember that they're still really young based off the rest of society. You mean, you got people retiring at 35. Well, 35, you know, most of us are just kind of really getting into the teeth of our careers and they have to start something new all over again and find an entirely new passion. So I thought that part, you know, kind of aged extraordinarily well. I have this for what's age the best and what stage the worst. The, Zeke with a Hey, tell mom I have a meeting. I'll be home later.

As his adulter excuse. It's like, this is the worst excuse ever. Yeah. I got to have a 9 o'clock business meeting. I'll be home later. And as soon as I get home, I'm going to shower. And it won't be suspicious at all. It's like, come on.

No, nobody's going to buy that one, man. No wonder he got caught. You didn't even need a private investigator, Alfred Woodard. You didn't need one. Yeah, Zeke, the worst, the worst cheater ever. Morwood's age the worst. We talked about how they had to cut around the high school thing with her,

because obviously Sana Lathan wasn't totally ready basketball-wise. But that jumped out of me, just nitpicking. My wife gets upset when they're about to have the sex scene with the Maxwell song sang, and she thinks Quincy kind of laughs at Monica's small boobs. and she's like, that's kind of a bad job by him. Like they're about to hook up and he's just like, whoa, look at those tiny things. And she gets mad every time that happens. So I wanted to throw that out there for her.

I mean, yeah, I guess. But I had not actually thought of that that way. Now you're making you want to rewatch that scene and be like, oh, you know, he does kind of smirk. He doesn't seem to be appreciative of the moment. My wife doesn't really love Quincy that much, some of his behavior. and really resents the smirk. Just thought it was poor taste by him. And then just how

Monica gets the scar gets shoved and lands on the lawn. And it's like, I don't know. You didn't see like a rock there. Yeah. Come on. Go to the basket support. Any other what's aged the worst

before we move on? All right. This is where I go into my rant about Q as a boyfriend. All right. Let's do it. I don't know if he ages. I don't think he ages. the best. And when you think about the collection of things, and I have written down a list,

because there was a lot. I was taking notes. I was like, let's look at all these shitty boyfriend things that he did. You could easily make the case that he had no business or she had no business ever dealing with him. Because the thing is like, all right, let's just start with the whole completely unreasonable reaction to the curfew. Like that was just, she wasn't saying, I'm just going to leave you out here. She was just saying, let's take it back to my room because I have curfew, all right? And I thought his reaction to that didn't really, it made sense because he was angry, but he was so dramatic about it that he's like, you know what? You weren't there sitting with me in this lonely bleacher. So therefore, the next thing I'm going to do is go out and

immediately hook up with somebody else. I'm like, you would think at that point their relationship might be a little more solid than that. But throughout the course of when they're, you know, these themes of him being kind of selfish, entitled, arrogant, they kind of come up. And then, you know, he kind of puts her in the friend box until she actually gives it up.

And it was like, eh. I mean, it was supposed to be a sweet moment where he was finally figuring out, hey, she's a girl. Okay, I got it. But then, you know, it was sort of like he was so problematic. when they were in college, that I just cannot, on some level, I wonder, I don't know if I believe as much in it today that they should have wound up together as I did 20 years ago when I first saw this movie.

Well, and then it does, yeah, I try to call you when Magic retired. Right. It was like, what? Exactly. It's just like, that's why you were calling her. So here's my defense. I agree with you. Bad boyfriend.

And I think they probably get divorced because he cheats on her and, you know, basically repeats his dad. But realistic character for a guy who's had smoke blown up his ass, basically since he was in 10th grade. But then even earlier than that, he's the son of a pretty well-known NBA player and just thinks he's hot shit. And how many times does that guy just make bad decisions with, that guy's not locking down one girl and being the most awesome boyfriend? he's usually behaving like Q is, right? Everybody that looks at him, he's flirting with them kind of for a second. And then even though he's got his armor on his girlfriend and that guy's just going to make bad decisions. Well, she's seen, she spent a lot of time in this movie capitulating to his ego.

And I'm not sure if that age is well. I agree. Yeah. And that, a lot to make him feel more comfortable with himself. And so kind of the, the woman in me just kind of, I didn't have as favorable. of an opinion of him as I did, you know, before. And it was kind of like, you know, when he's like, oh, I wouldn't have to choose when she's like, you know, I would never let you make you choose between me and basketball.

And he's like, you wouldn't have to. And I'm like, do we know this? Because I don't. I'm just like, I'm not convinced he wouldn't have done the same thing. Because there was really nothing in his behavior that would have shown you like, yes, if the roles were reversed, he would have been like, forget curfew. I just will be in trouble with coach and whatever. Particularly since he wanted a professional career, hello.

I doubt very seriously if he would have done that. So unfortunately, rewatching this has made me put it in the category of where I was sort of slightly disappointed that she actually got with him at the end. I was like, I don't know if this guy deserves you. But if you like it, I love it. We're taking one more break than we're doing casting with us. Let's take a break to talk about World Central Kitchen. The relief team is working across America to safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals and communities that need support. They are now serving tens of thousands of meals daily in some of our biggest cities like New York and L.A.

And they're launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh, hot meals to hospitals and clinics, fighting on the front lines while keeping local restaurants and business as well. We are making a huge push this month across all of the Ringer podcast to try to raise money. We're going to try to raise $250,000. I also donated 100,000. So if everything comes together, we'll have one-third of a million dollars to give to World Central Kitchen. You can help keep your local restaurants alive.

You can directly help the heroes in hospitals in clinics who are fighting for us by going to the ringer.com slash WCK. Please give whatever you can. The money goes directly to World Central Kitchen. It is a charitable donation. Once again, that is the ringer.com WCK and thanks to those guys for all the awesome stuff they're doing out there.

We did a lot of the casting woodoffs. The only thing that I found interesting in the research was Gabrielle Union was a great athlete and was a point guard. And it was like her dream role to be Monica, but she had like no acting experience at all. And she auditions for the Monica role doesn't get it. But then they give her the role of the high school groupie, basically, who goes to the dance with Q. But it's interesting, like, maybe if she had had like two movies under her belt, maybe she would have been Q. I don't know. I never knew she was a basketball player like that.

I'm excited for the Dwayne Wade-Gabriel Union kids if she had the point card DNA. You know, I love nothing more than athlete kids is one of my favorite, my favorite things. Okay, some quickies. Best That Guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. So Q's mom is one of those ladies. Deborah Morgan, you just kind of know her, but you can't remember where she was. She was in soaps. I know her from way back on The White Shadow. She was Dolores. She gave Thorpe VD in a very controversial, Thorpe Coolidge VD episode way back 40 years ago.

Debbie Morgan. Yeah. So I have her unless there's a better, do you have that guy or that girl in this that surpasses her? Well, the thing is with Debbie Morgan, like, I grew up watching her literally because my mother was a huge fan of all. All My Children, which she was on a show for a very long time. And the role that she played in this movie was, it kind of reminded me very much of her All My Children Days. Right. Yeah, because, I mean, she was a little dramatic.

I think she was supposed to be dramatic, kind of flashy, flamboyant, kind of a caricature of what an athlete wife would kind of be like. Right. And which I thought was that she nailed to perfection. But I'd say that was a pretty good one. I'd agree with that one. the Vincent Hanna they knew award for overacting. Coach Davis, she could have dialed it back maybe 15% in a couple scenes. And even the scene when she tells Monica like, you know, when I'm riding you,

that means I like you. It's just, I don't know. I want it a little more from Coach Davis. It just seems like you're always riding me. You think I go horse for a player with no potential? When I ignore you. Then you worry. The Dionne Waiters Award is a fertile category.

We have Gabrielle Union early. Some chick-hearn. There's a chick-herne cameo. Alfred. I'm not sure she's eligible. I think she's in too many scenes. So I'm going to go, here's my nominee and choice, but you can go differently. I love Sidra.

I thought Sidra really brought it. And she's in, you know, she's probably in four scenes. But each scene, she's just, really good. She's played by Erica Ringer, who I think this is probably the movie she's maybe she should have won the best that guy award because she's Sidra. But I really liked her, so that's my choice. Yeah, no, she was great

in this because every time that she was in it, it's like, you could tell like she kind of poured her heart into it. But it was funny because with Gabriel Union, aka Shawnee Easton, her character in this movie. Yeah. I would never not tease her, because her and I are friends, and I would never not tease her about the fact that she said that she would lick the sweat off of Q's booty. And I've never been able to not remind her.

So when they gave you that scene, when they gave you that line, did you think of improvising? Did you think of adding more to that or what? Right. That's like her first scene. Yeah, it is. It's definitely her first scene. I'm shocked that you didn't put Charles O'Bannon in here for some awards.

Well, and also Terry Cummings is the bartender. Terry Cummings as the bartender, right? Yeah, they snuck some in. Thanks, T. I was like, oh, look at that. Alluding to the fact that it's Terry Cummings. You know, I think the coach is a good choice. You know, even though it was, you know, kind of to some degree, a smaller, they weren't as vocal as her, but I would have given that award, you know, honestly,

to her teammates because I thought that even though a lot of them didn't have to say anything, the fact that they were able to visually show like how much they were a team or like, don't worry about it. Like they kind of showed that bond without having many lines. And I know that Gina cast college players in it. And one of my friends who played for the Tar Heels, she was supposed to be in this movie. And so she was just like, yeah, I mean, years later, she's like, I can't believe that I didn't wind up in this. Because something happened.

I think she has some conflict of interest. And I'm sure when it's like, oh, yeah, some smaller budget movie comes, she's like, I don't even know what this is about. But I thought the team dynamic, and you kind of pointed this out earlier, those teammates were able to sell that with very few lines and mostly with a kind of visual communication, partly led by Sidra. I like this. You might have just made history on the rewatchables, the first ever team Dion Waiters Award. That's right. The second. This is good.

All right. We're giving it to the entire team. recasting couch. I'm really proud of this one. She's been on my mind since she was a star of a recent rewatchables. Lisa Bonnet is Q's mom. What? I think she could have pulled it off.

Yeah. No. I'm just getting her in. She's aging a little up. She's pretending. I looked it up. She was 33 when they made this movie. She could have played 38.

But I just want more star power in the Q's mom role. I want somebody that I know was like just ridiculously hot. age 19 and he can't resist. And now all of a sudden he's got a son. And now she's still looking good. But I just really just wanted to get Lisa Bonnet in this movie. I'm still on a Lisa Bonnet kick right now. I'm not by now.

You're down. You're vetoing that. I'm not by. I have two potential options that I thought could have played Q's mom. Lynn Woodfield and Angela Bassett. So how old is, well, Angela Bassett? She doesn't have age because she's. She was born in prehistoric times.

She doesn't age. She has no blood. Angela Bassett would have been great. Yeah. That's a good one. That's better than mine. And the other, because she's supposed to be playing this kind of, you know, she's a strong woman, but yet she's been, you know, kind of done overwronged by this man.

If you're seeing Angela Bassett and waiting to exhale, you know she could pull this off. she might have lit his stuff on fire Q's dad the other one that I thought of as a potential sub even though I love her

so I feel I feel blasphemous even wanting to recast Regina Hall in anything because I think she's one of the funniest women even though she wasn't obviously

playing a comedic role she is such a talent and can do so many things however that being said I did wonder if Nia Long could have played her role as the sister

that would have been interesting keeping with that theme of circulating the same 10 or 12, you know, black actresses. And also in Sinai Lathen's role. No, stop. I give you two options. I'll give you two options. I'll give you two options.

Lisa Bonnet? No, they're not really Lisa Bonnet. Regina King and Jada Pinkett. Jada Pinkett Smith, sorry. Is Jada's too small? She's like five feet tall. As a guard, I was just playing a boy guard. I don't know.

You know? You know? She could have carried it. She could have carried the kind of. She could have. Who was the first one you said, though? Regina King. So here's why.

Sonal Ethan's incredible in this movie, but one of the things I liked about it. Yeah, I didn't have a lot of history with her when I saw the movie in 2000. Whereas like Regina King, by 2000, we have real history with her. She's been in a lot of movies. And I feel like she's Regina King. Sonna Leithyn, I felt like was Monica in this movie. Like I had only seen her in one of the wood the year before. That was it.

That was the first time I ever remember seeing her anything. So I don't know. I like the discovery part. That's good. I like that we disagree. No, I like. And I like that she played it. I mean, we're talking about this.

movie came out in 2000. And up into that point, I think her biggest movie was probably, oh, you know what? The best man came out the same year as the Wood. So it was the Wood, the best man. And she had a small role too in life with Eddie Murphy, but I don't know if anybody noticed her in that one. But this was like a real, I think, boost for her career as opposed to, as you said, Regina.

But it was just because she had made that turn. She had already made the turn in Boys in the Hood. And this kind of role would have been, you know, really different from her. I know a lot of people kind of discovered her with Jerry McGuire. But, yeah, it would have been interesting to me to see Regina King kind of pull off trying to be a basketball player. Half-Fest Internet research. We've covered a lot of it. Dennis Haysbert was hesitant to play another cheater after Wade and Exhale.

And then he told Jet Magazine he took the role. because he saw the emphasis was going to be on the father some relationship that was close to his heart. This is the second time Omar Epps played a character named Quincy

who preferred to be called Q. Correct. And the second time he dated Tyra Banks. He's just running stuff back that he's already done. Hey, play the hits. Gina said

she really wanted Maxwell's version of this woman's work and it cost a ton of money. Maxwell's people wouldn't allow to be in the soundtrack. They kept it in for Sundance anyway, even though they knew they had the rights. The reaction was amazing.

Studio was there. She kept lobbying them. And then finally she went to the head, the Mike DeLuca, the studio head, and said, it has to be the song. So he spent the extra money for it. And it was the right move. But sometimes I remember we had, when we did two Escobars, which might have been the best of the first 60, 30 for 30s, the score that we had

initially in that movie that the Zimbler's brothers had was incredible and it was expensive and ESPN didn't want to pay it and it's like one of my biggest regrets in life that we didn't fight harder for it. It was still like a Hall of Famer was awesome

and the score was good but this original score they had was like the most amazing score I had seen in a documentary and it's funny like you have these fork in the road moments and it's something like that where she fights for it fights for her fights for her fights for gets the guy to pay a little extra.

And now that's like one of the iconic songs in the movie. And then Sinala Lathan never played basketball again. That's in a way, though, Bill, don't you think that's kind of sad? Because if I had worked that hard and actually was getting, I hope she thought that she was actually getting good at it. Right. I would have wanted to. I'm not saying that, you know, she has to be at L.A. Fitness every Saturday morning or anything. But I think she could have kept with it.

She seems traumatized by the filming. Apex Mountain. Sana Lathan, I think you could say yes. I bought like an incredible amount of stock for her. And it led to some good roles for her. And, you know, I don't know who got nominated. Do you think this was an Oscar potential performance by her? Oh, Oscar potential.

I'm going to give you the, I'll give you the five nominees. Okay. That'll help. Julia Roberts wins for Aaron Brockovich Joan Allen nominated for the contender She's really good in that Yeah I was like that movie Laura Linney

You Can Count on me She's fantastic I actually think she should have won This year over Julie Roberts Ellen Burstin for Requiem of a Dream For a Dream Not an uplifting movie And then Julia Pinesh for

Chuck a lot So it was weirdly Sometimes the best actress category is sometimes just abominable. Like you can't even find five good. This year was actually kind of loaded. Like, Laura Liddy, I thought she'd won. But Roberts, that was her most famous role.

And Joan Allen's really good in the contenders. So I don't know. I don't know if she should have been nominated or not. It's tough. Did this have possibly been a screenplay one? Because this is an original screenplay, if I'm not mistaken. Well, it's hard to believe that that incredibly diverse 2000s Oscars committee didn't really pay more attention

She's shot. Basketball. The 78-year-old wet guys. Yeah. Best original screenplay, almost famous one. You can count on me nominated. Gladiator. Gladiator.

Aaron Brockovich and Billy Elliott were the five. Billy Elliott has not age well. Okay. Couple more here. Apex Mountain. I say yes for her. No for Omar Epps. Anyone else you have for Apex Mountain?

Interesting that you said no for EPEX Mountain. You know, I guess... Would you say yes for him? Make the case, make the yes case for him. Yeah, I would. I mean, I guess I'm also looking at his longevity in it, as I mentioned earlier, I think the way that despite how...

I don't say despite like his career is like started up bad. I don't mean it that way. But I think he was... He spent a while being kind of typecast a little bit and then he was able to kind of move out of that. And just him being able to find like a rejuvenation and a resurgence on television.

And then even later in his career, he was still, he was still kind of seen as that rom-com guy. Because like, almost Christmas is, is a rom-com. Essentially, it's a movie about family.

But it's, you know, it's a rom-com and Gary, and Gabriele Union is his romantic interest. So when you think about the trajectory of his career, I mean, I'd say, I'd say that he could put up a fight in this category,

personally. Okay. Yeah. U.S. USC basketball, no. Barcelona, professional women's basketball, yes. Okay. I agree with that one.

Early WMBA, seeming optimistic about the future league. Absolutely, yes. You watch this. Yes. Yes. The WM. It was the first, I was always for the first four years.

I was like, why are they doing this? Like, they're spending so much time, capital, promotional time, trying to push this league. this was the first time where I was like, oh, that's why they're doing this. She has nowhere to play. It was just a storyline I was not aware of until I saw this movie.

Picky Knits. I have some good ones here. All right, this is tough. I'm going to ruin this movie slightly for you. So she's a senior at Crenshaw in 1988. But the first time we meet her is 1981. It's seven years earlier because they say that. When we meet her, when she meets Quincy, they're playing basketball.

So, 1981, Quincy moves to her neighborhood. And the dad is playing for the Clippers. The Clippers don't get to L.A. until 1984. Oh, that's a good catch. That's a good catch. They're in San Diego. Now, they do show San Diego Clipper stuff in his room. So I don't know if he was making the commute from L.A. to San Diego every day.

Did he have a jump off place, as J.L. would call it in San Diego? Like, yeah, you guys stay here. I'm going to keep my apartment in San Diego. I'm guessing that's what they did, but then I would have loved to have seen the San Diego apartment. But yeah, the math doesn't really add up. Another thing where the math doesn't add up.

So Quincy is basically, it's like, I want to be one and done. I'm going to the pros. In 1989, people weren't doing that. I mean, this was like college basketball, freshmen weren't even really, the Fab Five come along in 92. That was the first time people were like, whoa, five freshmen are starting.

We did not really have the one and done stuff until the mid-90s. So just a nitpick. It's a little ambitious. The Quincy, the 510 shooting guard coming out after a year at USC. I don't know. I don't know if that happens in 1889. How do you feel about Monica making first team All-American? Yeah, when he alluded to that, I was, you know, I was thinking, okay,

well, she had, I mean, she obviously had a four-year career. was like, would she really have been a first team all-American? First team. First, I mean, that's quite a statement. And especially consider she was going to USC and with the basketball history that they have there. And if it was true that she was not, as Sidder reminded her, she was not the first choice, that she only got it because somebody else dropped off. You know, she didn't seem like a five-star kind of recruit.

I mean, she seemed like maybe a nice, solid three-star. So it's just like, this three star have become that. So the timing of this movie, if she's playing in college from 89 to 93. Oh, there's no way. There's no way. She would have been the first team. It was pretty loaded back then. Like, wasn't Teresa Edwards in college back then?

Yeah. The 96th stream team was famous. Yeah. I don't know. I don't see it. I think they could have gone second team and probably pulled that off. That'd have been more believable. So Quincy blows out his ACL and he's in the hospital like he had like a kidney removed.

Like he goes right to the hospital. He's got the gown on. He's staying overnight. There's people are sending flowers. It's like this is a two-hour operation. You go home after. Why is he in the hospital for three days? Right.

That did strike you? Bill, medicine wasn't that advanced then. Okay. You don't have guys coming back after. you know, six weeks after torn ACL and, you know, going on to play. So, maybe that was... They had to do the surgery, like, immediately after the game.

He's like, all right, we gotta get this ACO. We gotta get fixed now. Not sure that's how it played out. I had a, you know, I had a knit about the fall itself. And I was just like, I don't know about this fall being... That's kind of not how they go. I mean, I know... Well, you know, ironically, so I had the same knit.

Tony Allen, Boston Celtic, tore his ACL in the exact same way. Hung on the rim came down, but came down a little awkwardly. This was probably 0-607 range, early Tony Allen. Same thing. And it was like, God, you dumbass, you're fucking hanging on the rim and you tore your ACL. So there is a real life precedent for it. Okay. All right.

I'll take that nit back. So they live in a pretty nice neighborhood, right? we would say it's upper middle class. Yeah, middle upper class. Fair? Mm-hmm. Just everybody's windows are just open at all times. Windows open everywhere.

It's a very safe. Come on and out. It's very safe. Here's my bedroom with 90 trophies in it. Just going to leave the window open for anybody. Yeah, my father's a clipper. Yeah. It might have some valuable.

We don't have an alarm system. My dad's an NBA player for. 10 years? I don't know. That jumped out of me. And then, um, and then, uh, so Quincy tears his ACL. At that point, it's, it's made clear he's bounced around. He's been on a couple NBA teams. But he's made a few million bucks a year, I'm guessing, because, you know, the salaries were pretty good back then. He's been in the Lakers. Staying at his mom's house? It's a man in his mid-20s. And it's about to be, about to be married, too. couldn't have got in an apartment?

Stay in his old bedroom. That didn't sit weird with you? That was a little weird. I thought it was odd too that she was still living at home as well. I mean, I know she worked at the bank and it's not as lucrative, but I'm like, you probably should be living on our own right now, right? That's what I'm thinking, you know. It's a definite nitpick.

That's a legitimate one. Any other nitpicks? Very small thing, again, like all of these are, hits the title. When early in the movie, when she challenged him, when he was bragging about his dad and she's like, well, I bet your dad has his score more points, has your dad scored more points than Magic Johnson?

And he goes, maybe. I'm like, it's Magic Johnson. You know your daddy ain't scored that many points. You know your dad is not as good as Magic Johnson. Like, he's Magic Johnson. That was a big one. Yeah. That's a good one.

Best quote. We mentioned a few. She's a ho because she's sending you her coochie through the mail. It fucking kills me. What a hoe. Oh, why she got to be a hoe? because she won't get with me? She's a ho because she's sending her Gucci through the ma'am.

Oh, no, are they cursing their mamas in Spain? I just enjoyed that. Is that still your answer to everything? Yeah, when you come at me with bullshit like that. Oh, no. Are they cursing their mamas in Spain? They found breasts in my physical. She jokes to the hospital.

He goes, that's funny, I never did. Comes back. Back to your Quincy, terrible boyfriend. Like, just pointing out little flaws. Like, what a dick. Any other best quotes? You mentioned the Gabriel Union. Look at the sweat off the booty.

Sweat off his, Q's booty. Another one for me was when Monica called Gabrielle Union, an honest tramp ass hoe. I really appreciated how that flowed super well. Yeah, she's an honest tramp ass hoe. I was all here for that. She's honest. Yeah, an honest tramp ass hole. Love the argument between Q's dad and Debbie Morgan, your favorite, clearly.

When he was like, anything to keep your fine ass at Gucci and Goose. I don't know why that just cracks me up. I was like, yeah, keeping it real. I like my bullshit job, okay? And it's going to lead to a front office position. Until then, don't worry. We got just enough savings to keep your fine ass in Gucci and gold. And she whipped the bracelet out of him.

That looked at that hurt. That was like a two-pound bracelet. She's flying off Hayesburg's head. That was good. I enjoyed that. That was good. So I thought, you know, those are two pretty good one. Oh, and when he hit her with the spawning,

oh, no, he said, oh, I thought you, I think what he said, I thought you wanted to bone Dick Vitale or whatever. Like when they have their argument outside of there, and he's like, why don't you go be with Dick Vital and he named somebody else? And I was like, ooh, that was kind of a good one. Big win for Dick Vitale.

I was to say Dick Vital with the shoutout. You know, he was a possible Apex Mountain candidate. I should have brought him in. This is the height of Dick Vital when you're just, put them right into a sports movie. It made sense. Could this be remade as a 10 episode Netflix show?

Probably, but don't. My advice would be no. Keep this as is. This movie's timeless. Well, there has been, this is something I asked Gina about, is that a lot of people have tried to convince her

to do like a sequel, essentially, a part two, which she has refused to do that maybe it could pick up with their kids or, you know, or I don't know if they, I don't remember if they had a little boy, a little girl,

it looked like a little boy. So if they could pick it up from there, and she has refused. And I'm glad that she has resisted that temptation. It's perfect just the way that it is. But here's the thing, though. I mean, I don't know. If you did it as a, do you think it would work? If you did it as a bit of a prequel, like if you just focused on their high school years,

do you think it will work as a series? No, you just gave me an idea. So if you were going to do this as 10-episode Netflix series, you did in 2020 and it would just be their kid who, who's like a junior in high school, right? That is true. It's them as a couple. He's where she did became,

maybe she became one of the WMBA's biggest stars. Maybe she's like on ESPN. He's just kind of, maybe his life hasn't turned out. Yeah. I put this way. I could work. I would watch the first episode if you're like,

oh, they're doing this and Gina's, Gina wrote it. Sonny Lathan said, she said originally I was, this is 2015. Originally, I wasn't into the idea of a sequel, but when I read the script for Best Man, for Best Man Holiday. Oh, okay. Because she was out on that one. And then the script and she was like, okay, this makes sense. So she was like, so for Love Basketball, it always depends.

If it was a good script. She didn't slam the door. Omar said, Gina and I actually spoke about this. She has this. You don't touch a classic thing. I agree, but it's tempting because it's like, what would this story look like now? The best secret. are when they were in the mind during the original. When you were searching for the sequel, that's when it doesn't really work. I agree with that. Couple unanswerable questions. What do you think happened to Tanya Randall?

Got pregnant. Monica took her scholarship. You think she played ball again or is just over? I think it's just over for her. I think Tiger Randall is over. She had a nice run. And it's just finished. She just came to believe Monica took her spot, took first to Bombay.

She just cringes and silence. cries every time she sees Monica. Well, she sees her accepting her accolades for first team All-American. She sweeps. So, Zeke, we know he played for USC, which I assume is late 70s range. They weren't like that good at basketball that then. Then there's two other jerseys. I don't know if you notice.

There's the Clippers jersey, but then there's also a Bucks jersey. So then if you do the whole math and Terry Cummings gets pulled in there and who's now a bartender for some reason but see I'm guessing he got drafted by the bucks mid-70s range. So he's playing with, he might have been playing with Kareem there

the last two years for Kareem gets trade to the Lakers. Then he's playing with like the Kent Benson, junior Bridgman bucks in the late 70s. Don Nelson's the coach. Then at some point gets traded to the clippers. I'm guessing he, he's a two guard.

Looks about right. Yeah. It looks about right. Two or small for it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He's on Quippers team,

late 70s, early 80s. They got World Be Free. There's some Kermit Washington in there. There's Bill Walton. They signed Bill Walton. His feet are hurt. They draft Terry Cummings. So maybe that's how they became friends.

Who knows? One or the other. I'm guessing, you know, maybe like 14 and 6 for stats for him. Physical. like a physical two guard or a physical small forward. Maybe not a great outside shot, but kind of a defender,

like a kind of a warrior type. I don't know. What do you think? I think that's a fair assessment. I would have brought it down a little. I might have said 12 and 7. Seems like a 12 and 7 guy. Bench player.

Like started for a couple years, then really thrived as like a seventh man. He's a dude that teams would put on the team, you know, as a veteran presence. He's veteran presence guy. Q, the scouting report is basically like undersized shooting guard, ball hog,

a gamer, athletic, but the kind of guy that NBA teams would talk themselves into taking nine spots too high, and then they put him in the NBA, and it's like, oh, shit, he can't guard Andrew Tony. He can't guard, you know, Michael Jordan. Oh, my God, Cindy McGraths killing him. It's like, where do we play this guy?

and it just doesn't really happen would be my guess to what happened with him in the NBA, right? It's combo guard. What do you think he averaged? What would you say his career stat line looks like?

Oh, like 3.7 points a game. It's barely. I think he had one good Laker game like after Magic retired, the Laker fans got fired up for him for like a minute and then that was it. Any other in answerable questions for you

before we end this? I wanted to know what was Tyra Banks's reaction when he canceled that wedding two weeks out. Ooh. What happened to Tyra Banks? Yes. Things were broken.

And I also said, I would guess, ultimate revenge, especially during that time, she totally went out with one of his teammates. She then hooks up with one of his teammates. I see that. Oh. I like that. Like Eldon Campbell. She just went right, right too.

Oh, they're totally more famous than him and like have, they've had a better career, whatever, but definitely somebody who was a former teammate. Absolutely. She made her run at AC Green. Nothing happened. So then she just started going down the roster. Eldon Campbell, Sadale 3. It's kept going. Who won the movie? Well, I think who won the movie was Sinai Lathan. And I agree. Yeah, she won the movie. I mean, her performance stance, you know, speaks for herself. But I think she mostly won it because she showed a lot of the complicated nuance dynamics about being a woman during this time, being a female athlete, being a black female athlete, She hit all the markers. And obviously, I think, too, she really spoke to, I think women, it's why I love the movie, women like myself, who have an unconventional passion. You know, it's not, especially, you know, me growing up in Detroit, it's not the, it's not exactly a bunch of people, a bunch of little girls or people, period, running around talking about they want to be a sports journalist. And so I think from that standpoint, those things that she was able to convey and just who she was.

was. It was a very inspiring character, I think, for multiple generations of women. I agree. Timeless. And a good role model for somebody like my daughter, who, again, has watched this movie five, six, seven times at this point. But the type of character that just was not in a movie. And you left this movie and you bought a ton of Sana Lathenstock. We're like, what else is going to happen for her? I'm with you. I think she won the movie. This was awesome. 20th anniversary of this movie. It's available on all the streaming platforms. It's not free anywhere, but it's totally worth it.

And I'd recommend it as a purchase too. Chabelle, good luck with your new Wire podcast. I'm loving it so far. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, we definitely are having a lot of fun with it. And I look forward to, obviously, I'm a huge fan of this show. And so remember, you do Players Club, man.

I'm back for you. I got you. I have you locked down for that one already. Thanks, Jamel. Okay. All right, thank you. All right, thanks to Jamel. Don't forget about her podcast that is exclusive on Spotify.

It is called Jamel Hill is Unbothered. We'll be back with the rewatchables on Monday night with quite possibly the best comedy of the entire 1980s. Any guesses? Ferris Bueller. Yeah. Monday. It's happening. See you then.