The Rewatchables - ‘Magnolia’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

It’s raining frogs in the studio as Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey rewatch the 1999 film ‘Magnolia,’ starring Tom Cruise, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Julianne Moore and directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennacy. You can find the watch with Chris Ryan. You can find the Bill Simmons podcast.

You can find complete episodes from the rewatchables and the Bill Simmons podcast as well as fun clips and shorts too on YouTube.com slash Bill Simmons. We do not have video from the podcast you're about to hear because we taped it

in 2019 for our special rewatchable's 1999 feed that we did for Luminary. We did a little special series and one of the episodes was Magnolia.

Paul Thomas Anderson's third movie, his follow-up to Boogie Nights, one of the most fascinated movies of the late 90s, and we dove into it. not realizing that in the spring of 2024 on the rewatchables feed.

First of all, I would have been amazed and delighted that the rewatchables was still going in April 2024. But we did not realize we would be doing rock bottom month. And Magdalia has some rock bottom. And it has frogs, too. There's a lot of frogs. When we did this episode, we did not have some of the categories in place. Most interestingly, we did not have the Cruz or Hanks category that we just added over the

last month, but Tom Cruise is in this movie. We debate during the episode whether it was the best performance of his career, but I think Cruz wins this one. So Cruz is now leading Hanks three to one in the cruiser Hanks category. You'll also notice that Julianne Moore, in the moment, as we're doing the episode, gets credit for the overacting Ruffalo, and we decide to just move her into the categories. When you hear Linda Partridge, when we do the Ruffalo Rubeneck Partridge, I forget who the other one in his category. This is the birth of that. This was a really fun episode. It goes in a whole bunch of different directions, just like the movie. It's got some flaws, just like the movie. At the end of this episode, I clipped five minutes from when Sean and I interviewed Paul Thomas

Sanderson in December 2017 talking about Magnolia and talking about Tom Cruise. So at the very end of this episode, you'll hear that five minutes as well. Magnolia is next. Here we go. The answer is four. The answer is 22. The answer is gravity. The answer is the life of Samuel Johnson. Now that I've met you, would you object to never seeing me again? My name is Donnie Smith, and I have lots of love to give. It's not what you hope for. It's not what you deserve. It's what you take. He's dying. He's dying very, very rapidly. Sometimes people need a little help.

Sometimes people need to be forgiven. We did it are. Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan. We're here to talk about Magnolia, which Bill, you described as the weirdest fucking movie ever made? My son actually came down. Oh, my God. During the last 20 minutes of this movie, because I was watching it.

And it was raining frogs. And he kind of stopped, and he looked at the TV. And he's like, what's going on? Why is it raining frogs? And I was like, Ben, people have been asking this for 20 years. I don't want to shit on this movie because I really like it. But it's also one of the most frustrating. movies, I think, of the last 30 years, because there's the potential for it really could have

been great. And I think he knows it. Because when we had it on the podcast, he's like, oh, man, what was I doing? I should have cut 35 minutes from this thing. Now, what he should have cut, I guess, is its own question. But it's just, there's so many brilliant moments in it. And the fact that Cruz didn't win the Oscar is the biggest outrage, probably of this entire series of podcasts that we've done. Chris, the he that Bill is referring to is Paul Thomas Anderson. Big, big hero of mine, as you know. Yeah, I love Paul Thomas. Where were you when you first saw Magnolia?

What stage of life were you at? Way too young to really appreciate what this movie was about, probably. I had not really gotten in touch with the idea of regret yet, which I think when you watch this movie again, you see that that's how much it's about. It's about whether or not you can move on from the past, whether or not you can atone whether you deserve to. This is just like the cokeyest movie I think I've ever seen.

It really makes Goodfellas, the second half of Goodfellas seem like it's on downers. Every single scene, everybody is like panicked and screaming and crying. And they're already in the mid-crisis. There's no building up to anything. Like, everybody is already at 11. You know, that's saying something, by the way, because Julian Moore is in Boogie Nights where she has a whole scene where she's totally coked up with Roller Girl doing Coke. Will you be my mom? Can I call you my mom?

And she's crazier in this movie. Yeah, her performance in the pharmacy makes that look like Helen Mirren. When she's just like, you call me leading! Every scene she has this movie is completely unhinged. And it's like, they don't really make a ton of sense where you're like, why is she in her lawyer's office? She acts the same way in every single office she goes into, her lawyer, her pharmacist, or doctor. It is just a wild ride.

but I have to say that watching it again recently, like it is at times dangerously close to like crash. Yes. So, I mean, it's really interesting. You called it the cokeyest movie of all time. It's not just because of the performances or the storytelling, but even just the way that he sets the movie up, the camera is always moving.

It's the fidgetiest movie of all time, zooming in, panning across the room. It's all over the place. The game shows, especially. Yes. He's, he really, that's Scorsese would have shot it that way. Absolutely. He's aping his heroes.

And it's basically like if Scorsese and Robert Altman fucked and they had a misshapen baby, it would be Magnolia. That is kind of what this movie is. He wanted this to be his Altman movie directed by Martin Scorsese. Exactly. Yes. And so the reason this movie happens the way that it does is because, as Bill mentioned, boogie nights comes right before it. It's, if not like a major box office hit, it's kind of an announcement of a major American filmmaker.

So he kind of gets, PTA kind of gets a blank checked. he it was a beloved attempt and he says it and all the stuff after it was the one time people were like whatever you want to do man during a during really the last decade where somebody would say that to a director whatever you want to do or you want to make it three hours great do your vision dude and sometimes that's a bad thing and we've seen that with tv and we've seen that in movies we've even seen that in certain personal experiences we've had where when you give somebody car blanche sometimes that's a little parallel And they end up not want to take anything out. Too much freedom.

He gets $37 million from New Line to make this movie. It actually did decent business. It made $48.5 million, which is a lot. And I think most of it out is because there's just an insane Tom Cruise performance in the middle of the movie. And even though they didn't really aggressively sell the movie on Cruz, you could at least say Tom Cruise is in my movie and people will probably show up for it. But it's a pretty wild cast to look back on it.

It's Phil Baker Hall. It's Philip Seymour Hoffman. It's William H. Macy. It's Alfred Molina, Julianne, Moore, John C. Riley. Jason Robards, Malora Walters, plus one of the biggest that guy corners ever. I mean, there's so many that guys in this movie.

It was nominated. Just cruise 20 years later becomes kind of the legacy of this movie. I think for Paul Thomas Anderson, it's the weird movie he had to make. Yes. I thought at the time, I liked this when it came out.

I thought it was way too long. I didn't understand the John C. Riley part at all, and I would have cut that. completely. We can talk about that later. I think that's an interesting litmus test for this movie is what you would cut. Right. So for me, it was just like every scene with this guy's in working. I love Johnson

Raleigh. But I understood everything. It was like, this is part of the process. Every great filmmaker has to do some version of this movie. I think the revelation was Cruz. And this is a really fascinating five-year stretch for him that starts with interview of the vampire,

where he's like, I want to get weird, I don't really know how to do it. Then he goes back to be in Jerry McGuire, he's basically Cruz, then does this crazy Kubrick movie, which we broke down on the rewatchables earlier. Eyes Wide Shot. And then Eyes Wide Shot, culminating in this, which I think it's the best performance he's ever had. And not only should he won the Oscar, but I got to say, I didn't totally know he had

in him. And that was the revelation watching it the first time. It was like, wow, Tom Cruise didn't know. Yeah. Yeah, there's been a conversation going on about Joaquin'Nex and Joker. right now about the acting, the way that a person acts. And a lot of times at the Oscars, the award is for the most acting. It's not for the best acting. Tom Cruise, this is the most acting Tom Cruise has ever done in a movie. He is physically super present, ripping his shirt off,

doing gymnastic moves, but also having a complete mental breakdown, giving speeches about respecting the cock. And what does he tame, Chris? Tame the cunt. That's right. It's just, it's like an all out. It's made Chris say that. That was by design. He got nominated for an Oscar, but he didn't win. He lost to Michael Cain and Cider House Rules, which is outrageous. Just a travesty. It's really bad.

He would have won, I think, now with the way the internet works, he wins. Cruz and PTA is a really interesting relationship because it's obviously he gives PTA a lot in this movie. And I think that... Well, he wanted to be in it, too. Yes, and you could make the argument... He loved Buggy Nights. That he really looms over Anderson's career in some ways,

with the master especially. And some of the things that Paul Thomas Anderson is interested in and some of the things that are kind of you could shoot through Tom Cruise's life, there never really turned into De Niro and Scorsese, but it would have been an interesting, what it would have done for Cruz's career in terms of how he view him as an actor, and probably what it would have done for Anderson's commercial viability if they had continued to work together as a really interesting what if.

Well, and also it was at a time when he was still considering this. And something, that side of him died in the early 2000s, but he also had this whole Cameron Crow thing. And even Vanilla Sky, I don't feel like that's a movie. He wouldn't necessarily made in 2007. Something, some switch flipped with him in the early 2000s. Couch jump. The couch jump.

Well, but that was like 0.5. I thought it could happen even before that. Yeah, I think he made a couple of movies that didn't do well at a box office, and it was the first time in 10 years that that has happened to him, and he got scared. I think he got scared about being the biggest movie star in the world. And also, he didn't win. I think if he had won, it would have done something different to his mind.

Maybe he would have been the star of Punch Drunk Love. Maybe he would have been the star of There Will Be Blood. If he had won and people would have said, you are validated. You are one of our greatest actors, not just one of our greatest movie stars. But we didn't get that. There's a director savior complex that Tarantino started in 93, 94. I can unlock this person. Yeah, this guy was great.

What happened, almost like a coach or GM, trying to find some athlete who had won a Super Bowl at some other team and bring him over and rehabilitate him. And I think PTA got caught up a little with that with Cruz. Like, I'm gonna unlock this guy. And, you know, I look at the potential of this movie

and he's had an unbelievable career, obviously. I think we all love his movies. But I do think it got a little goofy there from 2000, that maybe until there would be blood, basically. Yeah, I think he didn't totally know what kind of movies he wanted to make. Yeah, and I think he was a little paralyzed

by all the choices he had and all that stuff. But the one thing I was thinking watching this movie, there is a parallel universe with his career where this is just his cast for every movie. For Anderson's career. Every 18 to 24 months, he just makes another movie with these like 15 people, and they're his regulars.

Because you can see the potential of that, but then he kind of veered away from it. And it's really disappointing because all the people in this movie, except for Laura Walters, who I have never understood. I really think that could have been a cool outcome for him. Well, I think he could make the argument that he poured all of himself into Magnolia

and then he needed to find different ways to interface with the movies and with life. I think that's exactly right. I think that he basically wrote his 1,000-page auto-fiction, his autobiographical novel about all of the pain that he was having, put it in 30 characters, and tried to make it happen all at once. Yeah, it's telling, I think, you know,

we will probably talk about this, but that Claudia was like his first character, the Malora Walter's character. Yeah, who is an addict and has been abused and is like just completely hysterical throughout the whole movie. Yeah, it seems like he's some cross between that character and Cruz.

But I think also John C. Riley and I think also Philip Seymour Hoffman and I think also Jimmy Gator, like all of these characters I think he's kind of putting a little bit of himself into. So it makes for like this really difficult thing almost to criticize because everybody's so fucked up.

The Cruz Robarts thing seems intensely personal. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For everybody involved. For all the people. It's Robards' last scene. Cruz is talking about his own. I got to say that. I know we're going to get to it,

but that's one of the four or five most raw scenes I've ever seen in a movie. I remember being in the theater for that, and that was one of those, you get a pin drop. Like, nobody's even moving. Yes. Just echoing. I know we'll get into the specifics, but were you guys moved on rewatch? Yeah.

In some parts, yes. Yeah. I think if you don't respond to the cruise breakdown scene, you don't have, you don't have like a soul. It's just like, it's so intense. We're also older. Like, when I saw this movie, I wasn't even 30 yet. And nobody potentially dying that I really cared about was even on my radar.

Now I'm older. And you think, like, that I could be in this, in this room with one of my parents. I could be the parent. Yeah, yeah. For sure. And you think, like, how hard that must have been for Robards just to play that character. Because it wasn't like he was going to be around for another 20 years. No, nine months earlier, he had his.

own bout with cancer. Yeah. And he fought through it. And that's why he took the part because he wanted to reckon with that. It's a really, really raw performance by him where the camera, it's just, he looks so old. Yeah. You can see like a scar on his lip and just he looks like he's dying. Yeah.

It doesn't even seem like there's a lot of makeup. That part's grim. It's, there's not a lot of laughs in this movie. There are a couple if you go looking, but it's, it's not like boogie nights. Where for every freak out, you have something hilarious happening. You have Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know, just. being absolutely absurd. Guys, will it shock you to know that Roger Ebert gave this movie four out of four stars?

He loved it. I remember. This was like he was the protector of the flame with this one. Can I read you a quote that he wrote in his review? Magnolia is the kind of film I instinctively respond to. Leave logic at the door. Do not expect subdued taste and restraint, but instead a kind of operatic ecstasy. Now, I will say, I completely relate to that.

I think that this movie is way messier than I remember it, and it's way too long. I was shocked by how way too long I thought it felt. It's like two movies. Yeah. But I still have that feeling like, you know what? Movies are just not like this nowadays. It's really hard to get a movie like this done and across the line and into a lot of theaters. And I appreciate that somebody's just like, fuck it.

I am going for it. And he's really going for it. The movie climaxes in a torrential downpour of frogs. Like you can't be going for it any harder than that. So I still really respect and appreciate that about it. I also like that just his ambition for it. the movie. I remember at the time he was saying something like,

I want to make the greatest movie anyone's ever made about San Fernando Fernando Valley. Yes. Yeah. I was like in Boston. I don't even know what San Fernando Valley is. Yeah. I live here now. I'm not positive where it is. But it was really... You know. North Hollywood. No, I get it. But it was like... Go all the way

moving west. It was really crucial to him that he nailed this one region and that for decades after people were like, oh, it was the best San Fernando Valley movie. People were like, Oh, yeah, magnolia. Yeah. But that's what all of his heroes did.

Martin Scorsese makes mean streets because it's like, this is what life is like to be an Italian American in Brooklyn or in the Bronx or in Manhattan in the 1970s. But did you feel like this really captured Sanford-Indo Valley? Because I certainly didn't re-watching. There's a lot more interiors than I remember, but then you think about Los Angeles and you spend a lot of time indoors. Yeah. Especially people in the valley where it's 10 degrees hotter, 15 degrees hotter, and they're all making TV or they're all working on in different things.

And you could go from your job inside the studio into a bar and then you go home. to your nice but kind of weird house in the valley? I thought it seemed pretty real. You know, the electronics store, the bar, the Foxfire Room in the Valley, which I think is still there. The bar was totally in North Hollywood. Dead on.

I thought, you know, the homes, like Earl Partridge's home is that classic, like mid-century modern, you know, rich guy house, like producer guy house. You know, it's got all this wood paneling everywhere and it's got big floor-to-ceiling windows. And I thought it felt like a very, very L.A. movie in a specific kind of way.

what's the name of the actress who I've always liked the mom Melinda Dillon? Slapshots Melinda Dillon Melinda Dillon was always one of my favorites for 20 years and I thought this was a really fun role for her. She's in close encounters, right? She's been a lot of stuff. She's one of those people that's had a way better career

than anyone's realized but I remember seeing her in this movie and being like, oh wow, he dug that one out. That's a good one. He's got so many people like that in his back pocket in this movie that are in three scenes. Baker's been like, Baker was like that for a long time. Like he had the iconic Midnight Run cameo and things like that.

But nobody unlocked him. And PTA just looked at him. He's like, I'm unlocking that guy. Yeah, and three movies in a row, he makes him incredible in Hard 8. And then in Bouging nights, his iconic Floyd Gondoli cameo in Bougainites. And then in this movie, which is like, Chris last night messaged me. And he was just like, Julian Moore is really going for the overacting award here, huh? Yeah, all-time Rubenick.

like really, really going for that. Well, let's save it for one of me get there. But I was going to say Philip Baker Hall is kind of the opposite. There was not even a conversation about best supporting actor for Philip Baker Hall in this movie, but he's fucking amazing and he's so good in it.

He does it. I agree. He does it correct. Did this movie make money? I don't remember. Just like $10 million over its budget, a very modest amount of money. Hmm. There's one weird thing that I came across,

which I could put in half-ass internet research, but I wanted to raise to you guys to see if you are aware of this at all at the top of the show. there are a lot of references to a Bible verse called Exodus 8-2 and it reads if thou refuse to let them go behold I will smite all thy borders with frogs so of course a reference to the frog rain

but apparently throughout the movie 8-2 keeps showing up everywhere you know the blackjack story with Pat and Oswald obviously he needed a two he gets an 8 there's like I have a list of 60 references so he did like a weird two Kubrick thing with that exactly did you are you aware of any head of it's really crazy and you can see See, like, that's to Chris's point, too, about how Koki the movie is. There's all this kind of like, you don't need this in it. Like, don't worry about trying to outsmart everybody and put a bunch of Easter eggs in it.

Just tell the story of the characters. But he's a really young guy when he makes this. Is he even 30 yet? I don't think so. I think he's like 27, 28. I forgot how fucking long the whole opening montage is with that. Where you're like, wait, this is like 20 minutes of this stuff. I also think we don't take into account enough with filmmakers, specifically, when you have a monster hit like that.

or something that's so critically acclaimed and beloved, how paralyzing that is. Oh, for sure. And I think, you know, I've seen, I've had it happen to a friend of mine. There's no way to top it. You can't do anything that is going to live up to whatever expectation somebody has in your head

and you end up getting weird. And I think he knew that pretty quickly. He was like, I just have to get fucking weird with this one. And if anything, it seems like he got even more ambitious. I think he's still the most proud of this movie weirdly, probably. I think he knows that he made the most mistakes on it, though. But I think he's good with that, though. Yeah.

I think it's like it's part of the process. It's a testament to him as an artist that his career survived this. Not that it was a failure by any means, but that he was able to then recalibrate. And, you know, when he does punch drunk and onto into there will be blood and the master, he's completely changed his filmmaking. I think Cruz really saves him in a lot of ways with this movie. because if this movie's three hours with whoever,

Ben Stiller in that part, or Adam Sandler, I mean, Cruz is like the, the, we always say this, the shark and jaws. Like,

when he shows up, it just stops. Right. It's like, oh my God, he's so mesmerizing. Would you have preferred a movie that was just about Frank T.J.

Mackey to this movie? No, but I, I mean, we could talk about this, I guess when we get to the, what's the most 1999 thing about this movie, but it's Frank Mackey.

because this is that whole Tucker Max Maxim era where it was like realistic for somebody like this. Masculine self-help. Yeah, and it all peaks with Neil Strauss. When was that book? Yeah, I have that here for What's Age the Best, though. I think you can make the case that Frank T.J. Mackey presaging mystery in the game and all that stuff was, I mean, he had amazing foresight.

Yeah, he tapped into it. But I think that character is just really smart. like P.T. Anderson, he clearly saw something that was going on in society and was like, I'm getting in on this. And it was what was happening, but it was very internet heavy. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already, already,

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Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zep bound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low. blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit setbound.lily.com. Should we go to the category? Yeah, let's do it. Most rewatchable scene. I've got a few suggestions here. I will say, before we get into them, I find this movie a little bit confusing because

every time a scene really gets going, he's like cut onto the next person. He interrupts the momentum of his characters. I agree with you. One. thousand percent. It's really confusing that he doesn't let anybody like get a headwind. You get started, like get on Julian Moore's rhythm and you're like, okay, like I get it and she's coming down off of it then it cuts away and it goes to like Donnie

and you're like, okay, now we're back like with Donnie the Whiskid. Or Cruz and Robards where first he's like so angry at him and then it comes back and he's broken down and he's crying and then it just cuts away again. Yes, it's so confusing. It's like Tom Cruise having the best moment in his career. Pita is like, cut, let's move on. That part in particular

I wanted to talk about that specifically. But anyway, most rewatchable scene, I think this is a bit of a controversial suggestion, but I'll say the opening vignettes as rewatchable scene. Maybe it's just because I've seen those scenes the most, but the whole, the story that Ricky Jay narrativizes and explains to us about how sometimes things happen in the world and we can't explain why.

They just happen. And it's, it's an interesting portal into the movie and it's like a thematic table setter. Do you guys like those scenes when you were revisiting them? I liked it. I think we can throw this category out. It's not a movie that's strung around the most re-watchable scenes.

I mean, the answer is like basically every Tom Cruise scene. Yeah, I would say like, you know, I agree with you. I think the vignettes are really dazzling the first time you see them and then the subsequent times you're like, okay, like we could get through this.

I actually really love the Patton Oswald scene, that one. The scuba dinner. The suicide jumping one, I was like, I get it. Like weird things happen. was a little more drawn out. The ones that I listed were Frank T.J. Mackey makes his grand entrance, respect the

cock and tame the cunt. It's great. That seems great. That seems great. Julianne Moore's Pharmacy Meltdown. Yep. The Frog deluge, obviously. Yeah. Because it's the first time you saw the movie, you're like, what the fuck is going on here? And then Stanley needs to be. What's a problem? What's a problem here?

Nothing happened. I'm phone. Why didn't you answer those questions? I didn't know the answer. Bullshit. Bullshit. You know the answer to every goddamn question, and I knew the answer to those questions. I'm not half as smart as you, so what the hell happen? I don't know. He pissed his pants. You,

blast. I pissed your pants. No, I didn't. I'm fine. Stand up. I said, I'm fine. Stand up. I'm fine.

Oh, Jesus. Staley, what the fuck did you do that for? I just want to keep playing. I just want to keep playing. I'll keep playing. I'm fine. At screen. During the game show.

For me, it's cruising Robarts. If I'm flipping channels and that's about to come on or it just started, I watch it because it's just an incredible scene. God damn, you fucking asshole. Oh, God, you fucking asshole, don't go away, you fucking asshole. Don't go away, you fucking asshole. Oh, God, don't go away, you fucking asshole. And it's weird to say, like, the most depressing scene of the movie is the most rewatchable,

but it's just such an unusual cruise performance. it's and I would say when he comes to it starts even when he comes to the door and he's like a whole thing. I'm going to drop kick these fucking dogs. It's all of it and then him and Hoffman and then you know in that scene when he starts breaking down and he pans back and

Hoffman's in the background he's crying I've never seen that in a movie before and it's like was the character supposed to cry or was he so moved that he actually just started crying but like I just thought that scene was like unforgettable. And PTA told Tom to mind his own feelings about his own father's death for the scene, which is like pretty close to

the line of emotional terrorism, you know, to be like, think about your own dad dying while you perform in this scene. It's pretty intense. Like, they must have had a lot of trust between the two of them to do that. And then when the frogs come, it actually jostles robards out of his whole stupor, which was kind of cool. Yeah. I mean, we can argue about the frogs later, but that there is a purpose. So you're going, Frank T.J. Mackey confronts Earl. Chris, you agree? I agree. That's the best scene in the movie. What's age the best? We already said Frank T.J. Mackey and The Game and Neil Strauss and all that stuff that he got ahead of.

I think that whole character, that whole performance, all of it is amazing. I like seeing Patton Oswald in this as the Blackjack Daylor, because this was really, really early to have Pat and Oswald in a movie. Yeah. I don't even think he was, like, famous enough to be on Kimmel Show when I was on, when I moved here three years later for Kimmel. I probably hadn't seen him do stand-up comedy in 1999. He's also one of those people that has looked the same for 20 years. That's true. But yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt it.

That's okay. Amy Mann's soundtrack. Love it. Really good. Obviously, a huge inspiration for the movie. It was a huge part of the whole like Paul Thomas Anderson's making a movie, but it's all Amy Mann songs in there. Yeah. It's very high concept.

It's very, very Nashville. You know, like Nashville is the same way. The whole movie is organized. Allman's movie is organized around all the songs that the actors who played the characters wrote for the movie. And then he kind of builds the movie like a living soundtrack. This movie's kind of the same way. I'll save one thought about Boston's a Boston's Amy man

You big Till Tuesday guy I am yeah I figured you were I've always wanted somebody to make a movie of all Counting Crow's songs from their first two albums Which makes me I think strange But I like the concept of Taking one artist and You know

Taking the music from some time period in the artist's time And weaving that through the movie It's effective I think the She's perfect for this. Yeah, she's... Absolutely. Incredible.

It's also... Well, we'll get to that. The frantic coked-out shooting style. I think maybe it's not aged the best necessarily as a way to watch a movie, but it is like aging well... Certainly not for more than three hours. No, but it's aging well to represent

where this guy was at at this time of his life. Well, it's also something that I think has been ripped off. Now, you could argue it rips off Scorsese and some of the good fellow stuff, but I do feel like that specific style and what he did in the game show and stuff like that. One thing you can tell when you watch... a movie assembled out of that, though, is you have to be really fucking good to pull it off.

And he's good. You know, I mean, to be able to match all the cuts, to choreograph all those camera movements so that they also then lead into whatever you're going to do next. You can't really be like, I had like three or four takes I'm choosing from here, and maybe I'm going to move this or it's like,

this movie is essentially put together like a giant jenga tower. And it occasionally wobbles, for sure. But you can't really like kind of mix and match stuff there. like everything there has like this erratic but very discernible rhythm. There's a documentary on the DVD of this movie called That Moment, and it's basically a diary. It looks like a traditional featurette, but it's way deeper and way crazier. And you can see the first 30 minutes of the movie is just pre-production meeting after pre-production meeting. Like they talked about how they were going to do this for days and days and days and weeks.

And you have to in order to do the things that we're talking about. I've got here, Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yeah, unusual. Hoffman performance probably the most pulled back he's ever been in a movie and you kind of forget he's Hoffman after a while

he just becomes the nurse but so different than Scotty Jay so different than 10 other characters he played. I mean it's you watch you're like oh man person in this movie? Yeah the most empathic clearly PTA wanted to write

a part for his friend that was just like showed his decency right that's the whole point of the character and it's like it's very sad to watch him movie for me. It's sad when you take this and you take 25th hours, probably three years after this, but a similar type of character.

But this was when, I think from 99 on, he really figured out what he was trying to do with his career. Yeah. And trying to play different people that stood out from the next person he played in the last person. Best actor of his generation. I also wrote down Super Tramp. Two pretty jamming Super Tramp songs in this movie. Pretty good. In general, the music's great in this movie.

Phenomenal. Yeah. Super Tramp is very well used. I would throw in the bar as just the best possible bar. And I also really like the obviously gay bartender, who was like the classic beefcake bartender who would be in a bar like that. Who's flirting with the guys who are 30 years older, but none of them actually have a chance. Also some L.A. shit. There was just very inside L.A. I liked it.

Anything else on What's Age the Best? Frank's hair. The man, the ponytail up top. Kind of borrowed from Last Samurai a little bit. Yeah, he got ahead of Man Bun too. Cruz's character is really ahead of the curve. I'm excited for what's age the worst. I'm going to read you a quote for what's age the worst.

You're ready? This quote was from 1999. It's Paul Thomas Anderson. I have a feeling, one of those gut feelings, that I'll make pretty good movies the rest of my life. And maybe I'll make some clunkers. Maybe I'll make some winners. But I guess the way that I really feel is that Magnolia is,

for better or worse, the best movie I'll ever. make. Ron Howard narrator voice. It wasn't. It was not. Yeah. That's amazing. It's probably the one he was the most personal to him and that he loved the most. Yeah. You could make the case that it is 20 things over. But you can make the case that it is his worst movie. It is his movie with the most flaws, which is amazing. He also made there will be blood. So that conversation's over. But here we, I should have said this for what stage is the best. One of the fun things about we watching this movie is all the things you wish he hadn't done. it's almost like that you as a viewer you got a savior complex with it like oh man why'd you do that

didn't you have anyone like he needed a conciliary do you want to talk about who we would cut out now as part of what's age the worst i just think the whole john c riley thing just didn't work and i felt that way for 20 years i know other people feel differently about other characters julian more is definitely too dialed up um it's way too long way too long i'm not even really positive. You need all the game show stuff, which was great. I was going to say that you could actually lose Stanley and Donnie.

And it's more or less the same movie. Who's Donnie? Wiz kid? Oh, yes. Donnie. The Macy, the old Wiz kid and the young Wiz kid. But I think this is kind of the point of the movie is everyone's going to have a different thing you could probably lose.

When we did For Love of the Game on here, it was so clear like what you just take out 35 minutes to kill your Preston scenes. It's a better movie. And this is like, I think everybody would have their own opinion. Yeah, for sure. I think the game show stuff is really compelling and captivating. I'm ultimately not positive what it's in the movie. But you can make the case, though, that Jimmy Gator, that character also is kind of 20 years

ahead of like a lot of older Hollywood types that are abusing their power and... Or abusing their children. There's a lot of like kind of Me Too reverberations in the Jimmy Gator character. Oh, I think it's more than reverberations. I actually think we should have put this in which saves the best. It's watching this now in the Me Too lens, knowing that he intended this guy to be a Me Too character, but we didn't realize that in 1999, I thought. Yeah, and you got to know PTA's father, Ernie Anderson was, you know, worked in broadcast television for years.

He was the voice of ABC for many, was it ABC? Yeah. ABC for many years. And, you know, PTA grew up around a lot of people like Jimmy Gator. He knew a lot of people who were on television who did bad things. Creepy, grope people. I think the number one, what's aged the worst for me, and ironically, I feel the same about Boogie Nights is,

I just never understood the Malora Walters thing. I don't get it. I never thought she was a good actress. I think that opinion has been vindicated by the last 20 years. I don't mean to be harsh, but I think if you put a really good actress in that part, the ceiling of this movie goes way up. Because she's in a lot of scenes.

It's a really complicated part. She's a druggie. Her life's fucking. in shambles, but I'm supposed to feel bad for her. There's a lot to work with. There's a big range with emotions and stuff she's supposed to have. I think there's a sexiness to her that I don't feel like she has. And then in the end scene, she's just kind of a zombie.

And I don't think the last scene works. And I think one of the reasons it works is because I never figured out what her character was because I don't think she's a good actress. Chris, what do you think of Malora Walters? I think that she's just playing at a very specialized frequency. and you're going to get reactions like bills and you're going to get reactions of people who are like, I know exactly who that is.

You know, like people really glamorize like Coke in movies and TV shows in terms of like what it does, you know, like the Bobby Connovali like head flies back and then he's like rock and roll and he goes out. This is a pretty accurate representation of what it's like to be addicted to cocaine, I think, and her kind of, you know,

being weirdly introverted in general, and then getting this visit from this guardian angel and rejecting the salvation that comes along with it. It's a really acquired taste, but it is a very specific performance that I think is successful in certain ways. I wouldn't say that I'm like dial up the Malora scenes again, but I'm like, I know what she's going for.

If this is five, six years later, maybe seven, eight. This is like Amy Adams. It's somebody of that caliber, right? It might even be Emma Stone who really wants to be in a PTA movie I just think there's a different caliber of actress. He was really enchanted with Marlora Walthers for some reason,

even in Boogie Nights where I don't even really understand her character in Boogie Nights at all. But she's in the movie a lot. I think he really likes her as a kind of like babe in the woods figure who can be damaged, you know, and that's what he's trying to convey. It's the thing is, is it's an unpleasant character, and you never like her. And you're not supposed to like her. So it's a little hard to like the performance. A lot of the things that she's doing, you know, she, it looks like she's trying to hurt John C. Riley, who is supposed to be this, like Chris said, like this guardian angel.

Like, she doesn't even know how to be around somebody who's decent. And it's a little hard to sympathize with her even though she's had these terrible things happen to her. It's tough. But that's the other problem. And she's with John C. Riley, who's the other, like, really weak character in this movie where he kind of did this some boogie nights too, but it was funny where he has, I don't know, almost plays the character. Like the guy's, like, a dimwit? I think that's purposeful. He's got like a, no, but like, like, he's actually stupid.

Like, he's got like a 70. Like, I don't know much difference between this guy and Forrest Gump. I guess it would be my point. He does. He has a mustache. Less running. But he's basically Forrest Gump, and I don't really understand the decision to play the character that way. So you have these allegedly deep scenes with him and this recovering cocaine addict who's been abused by her dad, apparently.

And he's, it's like having Forrest Gump in those scenes. I think you could make the case that a lot of people in L.A. are, are really simple. And, you know, he's like, he's a cop who loses his gun. Like, he's incompetent. That's fine. But do I need to spend 40 minutes with them? No. I can figure out in two minutes that he's that he's a rude. Like, that's fine. I've figured out this character. Let's move on. I would cut him the most. The character I would cut is Julianne Moore. Oh. And I love Julianne Moore. Julianne Moore might be in like my Hall of Fame. Then we lose the pharmacy. I know. I know. And that seems hilarious, but like, it's not actually good. It actually doesn't make sense logically.

it's like in what universe would a pharmacist talk to you about the drugs that you're getting? Like that's weirdly offensive. Like it doesn't track to me, that scene at all. Like it feels like a fever dream. Like the Pat Healy character when he's like,

they got a lot of crazy stuff here. Don't mix a dream. I mean, I think he's saying, don't kill yourself. Of course, but that's, pharmacists are trained to not do that. They're trained to not like invade your personal life when talking about what you've been prescribed.

Then she has that scene later when she's like, that cheated on him. and all these guys I fucked and the dicks I suck it's like oh the look on Michael Murphy's face throughout that scene is amazing

his lawyers I can't wait to do this cool scene with Julianne Moore the dicks I suck I sawed so many cocks Our lawyer I'm his wife we are married I broke the contract of marriage I fucked around on him many times

I sucked other men's cocks adultery is not against the law It's not something you can use in court to discredit the will Linda Linda, I can't. You don't have to change the world.

We're a family! It's a bad performance, I'm sorry. I also wrote down the chance of rain in L.A. For what's age of the worst? It doesn't fucking rain here? 99% humidity? What is this? Come on.

That's not how it works here in L.A.? No. It doesn't rain. No. It did also rain frogs, so maybe we should nitpick. Do you think that the wise-up sing-song-walk works when all the characters

slowly each get their chance to sing a lyric from Amy Man's song? I think that 20 years of network television shows doing that bit has kind of soured me on it. Yeah. Seems pretty novel at the time. That's a good one for what feels the most 1999 in this movie. I would have thrown that one in there. But years of like Buffy and Grays and other shows just being like, it's the musical episode where we're going to sing pop songs.

So let's go to that category then. What's the most 1999 thing about this? I would say Frank Mackey. I would also say the sing-along stuff. and also the kind of homage to like he's obviously in love with 70s Hollywood which he grew up with and his dad doing the voiceovers for Charlie's Angels in Vegas

and just the specific type of Hollywood which in the late 90s which is when you would have felt the most strongly about that I don't think people now would care. I just think the role of like the self-help stuff but also like it being on with television as your portal to like vice and kind of your basest instincts

where it's like when Phil's kind of flipping the channels that was like kind of what TV was like in 99 like you had a lot of options but they weren't very good and you would wind up like watching like some weird 35 minute form and grill commercial because like you had nothing else to do. Pre-reality.

Yeah. Another 99 is when he orders the magazines and it's like hustler. It's just the concept of ordering porn magazines. The person at the grocery store is just like really like, yeah, we got a hustler. Yeah. Yeah, we got a pet house.

Yeah, I thought. the idea of just calling a place to order something was very 1999. Like nowadays you just dial up postmates and you just get it delivered to you that way. Yeah. I mean, the most 1999 thing about this movie is that he was dating Fiona Apple during it during... And that he was wearing like a bucket hat. Her apex. Yeah.

I think they definitely probably didn't bring out the best in each other after a while. And it's hard for me to separate Magnolia from that relationship, which I always thought would have been a top five documentary that will never happen. There's some scenes in that moment, that documentary feature that I'm talking about, where it's in post-production, the movie's being edited, and Fiona is in the editing suite with PTA. And she is doing a sort of interpretive dance as the movie. And he's directing her, and she's, like, shrinking down and getting very small.

And then she's exploding and getting very big. And while he's directing her, he's describing what the criticisms of the movie either are or are going to be. You were too ambitious. You're too long. You think you're better than you are. And it's crazy how smart and ahead of the curve and inside of his own mind, PTA is. And the way that he's basically using his genius pop songwriter girlfriend

to be like his portal into talking about all this stuff. It's just I would highly recommend people watch that documentary. It's so wild. I think it's my favorite celebrity couple of all time. They're wonderful. Bill. Because when she put that first album out, it was so intense. and she was so obviously

like damage from whatever but able to process it into all this music and then the videos and just her persona it was just like the type of person you'd want to be at a bar at

if you were my age at the time and just like spend 20 minutes talking to and it would be the most intense 20 minutes of your life and then she ends up with PTA who's his own kind of crazy intense filmmaker and I've just never that the combo is just

it's never been approached. Yeah I mean I was like a... I can't imagine what they were like at like four in the morning. I was like a 15-year-old boy when she hit the scene. I was like, this is insane. This is like my dream girl. Right.

You know, it's crazy how fascinated by her I was. She was so unlike anything. Yeah. She's really interesting. I mean, I find it nice that he still directs her videos and that they still have a friendship, even though they're not together. It's like a good outcome for that relationship.

It's a credit to Maya Rudolph. Great job by her. She's being like, yeah, that's cool. You can direct her video. I would probably not want my husband or a few on Apple. It's a great call. She's the best. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

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No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup. And we'll come to you with a check-in. hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Casting what ifs? Hmm. I can only find three. If you found more, let me know. One,

Deborah Winger was considered for Linda Partridge. Oh. Hmm. Which I thought was an interesting choice. Marlon Brando was considered for Earl Partridge. You know, speaking of Debra Winger, it seems like a lot of directors have kicked the tires with her over the last like 20 plus. She doesn't like to work. Yeah. I think it seems like all the noted filmmakers have tried to get her for something. She's like four seasons of the ranch.

Yeah, she's taking some weird jobs which makes people confused based on how she rose to fame. I think she's all-time quirky. She seems like a quirky figure. She was arguably the biggest actress, the biggest A-list actress we had for like three years.

The early 80s. Yeah. I would say the movie is better if she takes Julian Moore's part, honestly. It's tough because we all love Julianne Moore and it just feels too close to Amber Waves in some ways and I you know he was really careful of taking each character who had been in a previous movie of his and at least making a little

different and her thing it's I don't know we know we've been talking about Joker a lot and I think the Julianne's Moore's performance in this movie is like a lot like Joaquin Phoenix's Joker performance it's already in mid like burning out like when you start the film and you're like I have no prep for this yeah I don't know who this person is. I don't know why they feel this way. They just keep screaming about their feelings and then it's over. It sounds like the internet.

Speaking of the internet, the D.N. Waiters Award for the biggest he checked. I wrote down two names. The first name... Cruz is ineligible, right? Well, I have Cruz. I think he's in too many scenes. What about Stanley's dad?

So I think he could win all of the awards. Michael Bowen is his name. The over-bearer dad? Yes. I think that he could win. He check that guy and overacting. It's tough to take overacting from Malora or Julianne, but he's in the conversation.

Julianne, we have to rename the award for her. Yeah. What's her character in this movie? Linda Partridge. Yeah. Her and the pharmacy is since we've done, we've done, I think, 85 rewatchables on the MedFed. It's so insane.

It's one of those scenes that if you're watching Living Room, If somebody walks by, they think like a nuclear apocalypse is happening or something. I think when I was a kid and I saw the movie, I was like, this is really deep acting. She's really going for it. And then I watch a movie now and I'm like, what's wrong with her? Fuck you two! Don't you call me, lady! I come in here, I give these things to you. You check, you make your phone calls, look suspicious, ask questions.

I'm sick. I have sickness all around me and you fucking ask me my life. What's wrong? I'm using death in your bed. In your house? Where's your fucking decency? And then I'm asking questions. What's wrong?

You suck. My dick. That's what's wrong. And you, you fucking call me, lady. Shame on you. Shame on you. I don't think anyone in real life has ever been this upset that wasn't a risk to themselves. Yes.

It's weird that there are two frantic, bizarre, drugged up women in the movie. movie. Like, we could have done without one of them. Or is it weird? Well, nevertheless. I, you know, I wrote down... There's a lot of pairs. Two Wiz Kids, two patriarchal film television figures, two very drug-addled women. That's true. Yeah. Any other, what other DN Waiters nominees do you have? It's weird because so many people are in this movie for around the same amount of time. There's not a lot of Deanne Waiter's performances. What do you think about? What about Felicity Huffman? She's just good. She's in like three scenes just being like evil Felicity Huffins.

Yeah. She's good. I think Louis Guzman as one of the contestants on the game show is really good when he's talking shit to the little fat kid. That's part is great. Who's the guy who talks to Macy and the bar? The old guy is like you're dull. Oh, Henry Gibson.

Yeah. Who is one of Robert Altman's go-to guys over the years. He is a classic. I mean, he should win the that guy award. He's on my list. Yeah. Yeah. He's going for it too.

I can't even remember what my favorite Henry Gibson is. but I feel like he's been in 140 movies. It's dangerous to confuse children with angels. There's just a mountain, an absolute mountain of half-ass internet research. I feel like we should just publish it rather than read it all here because we're going to waste too much time talking about it.

Is there anything in particular that you need me to say about all this stuff here? Just give us your best six things. Yeah, what's your favorite joint? Well, I just referenced this, but you're working out your psychosis on everyone else's 850. I still love you, but you're no boogie. nights. That's PTA play acting as the public's reaction to Magnolia with his then-girlfriend

Fiona Apple, who was play-miming as the movie Magnolia in that moment. Oh, man. The 90- I gotta find that. Very special. Do the Hoffman, Cruz, one. That nugget. Which one is that? Why don't you do it? Okay. Philip Seymour Hoffman stated during the deathbed scene, everything after Frank's I'm not going to cry for you was improvised by Cruz. Cruz didn't feel the scripted lines worked and Paul Thomas Anderson told Cruz to think of when his own father died and let it move him. During the next take, Cruz broke down sobbing, resulting in the scene scene in the film, and Hoffman stated Phil's reaction to Frank sobbing was his own,

since he didn't know Cruz would enter such a zone, and he felt purity of... Oh, so he did cry. Yeah. And that shot, it's a very theatrical scene because it's just these reactors, but Hoffman's, like, still acting out of focus in the background. It's unreal. That's amazing. That's definitely the best scene in the movie.

New Line wanted to push this movie as a Tom Cruise movie, but PTA refused, saying it was an ensemble piece. He ended up designing the poster and, edited the trailer himself. So I knew that. I remember he made the poster himself, which is like the height of, you know, somebody who's been told, do whatever you want. Yeah. Pretension, but also like creative freedom.

That's where the right studio should be like, hey, dude, we're designing the fucking poster. We have five people who know how to do this. Yeah. Yeah, we're good. PTA screened the film network to his production team before filming began. This was my favorite movie when I was a teenager. This movie kind of intersects a lot of my interests. before Anderson became a filmmaker, one of the jobs he had was as an assistant for a television game show, Quiz Kid Challenge, an experience he incorporated into Magnolia.

He also claims in interviews that the film is structured somewhat like a day in the life by the Beatles. It kind of builds up note by note, then drops or recedes, then builds again. I mean, there's just a number of items along these lines. Maybe we should keep it moving to keep the show moving. The word fuck has used 190 times in this movie. Wow. Also, the telephone number 877, Tame Her, is shown on the seduce and destroy infomercials within the movie. Dialing this number used to give a recording of Tom Cruise giving the seduce and destroy pitch.

Remember when people used to do shit like that? Where it was like, on that phone number in the movie, if you call, it's like Robert Redford tells you the weather. That should have been what's the most 1999 about this movie, that they'd had the Tom Cruise answering the phone gimmick. That was really good. Over 7,900 rubber frogs were made and used in the frog scenes. The rest were created by CGI. real frogs were harmed during production. Oh, damn it.

For what stage is the best we should have put how realistic the frogs were? It works pretty well. For 1999, they really seem like they're just killing frogs. I agree. I'm going to go to Joey Pants Award here. Okay. I got a lot of candidates.

Just run through him. Michael Bowen. He's the dad. Patton Oswald. I mean, Michael Bowen's probably the winner because I didn't know what his name was. Did you know that there was an actor who plays the young Jimmy Gator in some of those television flashbacks?

Thomas Jane. Oh, didn't notice him. Porn star Veronica Hart as one of the dentist nurses. Notice her. Cleo King as Marcy, the black woman who John C. Raleigh, who's...

Veronica Hart was also the judge of Bougainette. She was. Yeah. She was a pal of PTAs. Alfred Molina, not really that guy, but like Alfred Molina showing up for one scene, I find funny. With an accent.

Yes. As Solomon. Felicity Hoffman, we mentioned. Orlando Jones, who got cut out of the movie, but played a pretty significant part of the movie, but he is the figure running into the the woods in pursuit of the gun. That's who he was supposed to be.

Clark Gregg, who would go on to appear in the Marvel movies. He's the guy who is the director or the countdown guy on the TV show. Henry Gibson, we mentioned. Big Grant Lamb fan. Oh, nice. Ricky Jay. Oh, is a PTA staple. Jim Beaver, yeah.

Jim Beaver from Deadwood, who is at the bar with Henry Gibson and Quiz Kid Donnie Smith. I think the answer is Michael Bowen, but I also think Henry Gibson should get a career achievement and possibly this should be even named the Joey Pants of should be the Henry Gibson Award, because I can't even imagine how many movies he's been in that I've seen. He's iconic in the Burbs. I would say Ricky Jay, just for the, he also narrates the movie. Oh. I like

Ricky Jay. The Saul Rubeneck Award for Overacting. What's Julianneux character's name? Linda. Linda. What? Partridge. The Linda Partridge Award for Overacting? Yeah, I think we're renaming it. I'm down. The pharmacy scene

makes the Saul Rubeneck scene look like he's pulling it back. Is there a case to be made for Tom Cruise in this category? No, how dare you? I think that it's all intentional. If you didn't have the deathbed scene, like when he's hanging out with Guinevere and he's got his pants down,

and he's like, great questions, great questions. Like, that he's really going for it. But you have to view the whole thing in its totality and watch him get stripped down in the hospital. We forgot to do for what stage is the worst. It gets a little uncomfortable when he stands up at the end of the interview. Oh yeah, he gets in her face.

Yeah, but there's a hint of something not good going to happen. He's a bad guy. He's a really bad guy. Michael Bowen is also a candidate for overacting. As I said, I think Michael Bowen could legitimately win all three of these categories. Triple Crown. Have we ever had a Triple Crown winner? No.

Wow. I can't wait until we get to that moment. No, Michael Bowman, nice run. Apex Mountain. Yeah. I don't think it can be Cruz. I mean, ironically, it's Malora Walters because this was it for her. and I would say for Amy Mann's solo career.

I have Amy Mann down here. Has to be Amy Mann. I think Amy Men wins, yeah, you're right. San Fernando Valley. Nominated for an Oscar. Savonando Valley. San Fernando Valley, Apex Mountain? That's right.

She performed it with John Bryan at the Oscars, right? That's right. Not PTA. Not a lot of Apex Mountains for this. Frogs? Stanley. Poor Stanley. Wait, you think it might really be...

I can't believe Phil Hoffman really cried in that thing. I was always a working thing. here. I didn't know we had evidence that that happened. Wait, what was your question? That might, that might be one of the biggest scenes of all time. Do you think this is Apex Mountain for frogs? That's what I want to know. Is it Apex Mountain for frogs? What was a better moment? The actual Bible. And also any story where a witch turns a prince

into a frog. Good points. I'm going to say this is Apex Mountain for my mom. Okay. Oh my God. My mom turned 52 years before. this is one of her five favorite movies she would get in violent arguments with people about the frogs

and is just a keeper of the flame of Magnolia for 20 years when's your mom going to be on BS pot again yeah your mom and I agree on a lot of stuff if my mom had been on this podcast it would have been twice as long she has a lot of thoughts I can't believe you didn't do she mind recording podcast in extreme heat no I don't think so let's pick some nits

Frank T.J. Mackey doesn't think a journalist is going to search his life. Yeah. What's going on here? This guy's going on TV. He's a quote-unquote famous person with informersals all over the country and he's mad.

Like that Notre Dame guy got the job and he was like I didn't actually like graduate from college, right? Remember? Who got the Notre Dame job? And it was like turns out like you lied about. Ty Willingham?

Oh yeah. No, it was George somebody? I don't know. I know what you're talking about. George somebody. Like shit like that used to happen more in like the 90s where somebody was like maybe nobody will check.

George O'Leary. Yeah. George O'Leary. I have a real problem with them not letting the little kid go to the bathroom. Just pause the taping. It's the game show. He's going right there.

It's little kids. They've never had a little kid that want to take a piss before on the show. That scene, I think, is just absurd. Not as absurd as frogs coming out of the sky, but... It's a good take. It doesn't rain in L.A., so this is a knit to pick. It's important.

William H. Macy's dental work? He just didn't seem that bad. They didn't have, like, buck teeth or something. It's a fine little wrinkle. It's weird that it's like the entire driving for. of his character. This is kind of a knit but kind of a purposeful thing

that PTA does, but I want to point it out. At one point, Quiz Kidani Smith says, Samuel Johnson never had his life shit on and taken from him and his money stolen. Who took his life and his money?

His parents, his mommy and daddy, make him live life like this, a man of genius who got shit on as a child. Actually, all of those things happened to Samuel Johnson. He was a child prodigy who was exploited by his parents, his parents also stole all of the money

he made as a child prodigy. Good stuff. I have another small knit. I don't see Jason Robards and Julian Moore together. Oh, I do. I get that completely. You think so? A trophy wife?

Yeah. Those two together, though? Yeah, he's Aaron Spelling. He's Aaron Spelling. He's got a wife who's 25 years younger than him. I just meant the two people. I'm not even talking about the concept of a trophy wife. We don't get to see Robards upright, so you wouldn't see that their interaction.

Robards is a complicated dude, man. If you ever read Lauren Bacall's biography, he was a tough time. A tough time. A nice way of putting it. He was a little some scary stuff in Robards' life. The goddamn regret, which is the thing that he says

when he's giving that kind of wandering speech is like you really feel like he's actually saying it. When Linda Partridge is swalling pills in her car, it's raining outside. A few minutes later when she's passed out, the car is bone dry. One mistake.

Best quote, we may be through with the past, but the past is never through with us. It is in the humble opinion of this narrator that strange things happen all the time. And so it goes and so it goes. And the book says, we may be through with the past, but the past aimed through with us. Too obvious? I like I'm not going to cry for you. Respect the cock, Bill? Probably a most memorable. Respect the cock is incredible. Can we just hear

that whole speech, Craig? Respect the cock. And tame the cock. And tame the cock. Take it on head first with the skills that I will teach you at work and say no You will not control me no You will not take my soul no You will not win this game because it is a game guys you want to think it's not huh you want to think it's not you go back to the school yard you have that crush on big titted Mary Jane Respect the cock you are I'm betting this thought I am the one who's in charge.

I am the one who says yes. No. Now. Here. I loved her. She knew what I did. She knew all the fucking stupid things I had done, but the love was stronger than anything you can think of.

The goddamn regret. The goddamn regret. And I'll die now. I'll die. And I'll tell you what. The biggest regret of my life, I let my love go. The goddamn regret. The goddamn regret.

Regret. And I'll die. Now I'll die. And I'll tell you what. The biggest regret of my life, I let my love go. Pretty intense. What do you think of, you don't really like anything that John C. Riley says, like his monologues inside the cop car when he's talking to himself?

I just think they made him too dumb. I'll never change that opinion. Take that opinion from my cold dead hands. What about when Gwynnevere and Frank, T.J. Mackey, you're talking. And she says, come on, Frank, what are you doing? And Cruz says, what am I doing? I'm quietly judging you. Pretty good one.

I'll tell you everything and you tell me everything and maybe we can get through all the piss and shit and lies that kill other people. I'll tell you everything. And you tell me everything. And maybe we can get through all the piss and shit and lies that kill other people. This movie is very intense. I said that last night. To my son.

Last one, sometimes people need a little help. Sometimes people need to be forgiven. And sometimes they need to go to jail. That's you and the Jets. Absolutely a fact of life. Could this work as a 10-episode Netflix show in 2019? I mean, that absolutely would have been the destiny of this. Yeah.

This would have been, he would have made this 10 hours, and it would have been fucking awesome. And it's kind of a shame that it didn't play out that way. And all the beats where it would be like the before and after beats would have been fleshed out. It would have been so much better. as a 10 episode. So I was thinking about this. Would you guys have made it?

Would you have preferred it be made? Each episode is about a different character, or each episode just moves more slowly, and we get all the characters in every episode? I think you do each episode centers around a character, but then the first and the 10th probably tie people together. Yeah, and then in the background of these, you get moments with other characters.

That would have been cool. Yeah. I don't think there's ever been a better example of this would have been better as a Netflix show. By the opinion. For that we've done as a rewatchable. Unanswerable questions. Yeah. What's up with the frogs?

I mean, that's the most unanswerable question we've ever had. It would be... It's completely insane. I don't know how anyone comes up on it. The biggest story in America for a year. If that happened. Right? A decade.

Yeah. A generation. Bigger than Daryl Morey in China. This is me not commenting. Do you think that it only rained frogs in the San Fernando Valley? or did it rain frogs nationwide? Here's the thing with the frogs that my mom has drunkenly explained to me

more than once at dinner. It's not about whether it's realistic or not. The whole point of the movie is you never know when something crazy is going to happen that alters whatever you thought was going to happen and goes in another direction. So he's like, here's the single craziest thing that could be the example of this.

But is it any crazier than anything else that happens in your life? Yeah. And actually it's kind of brilliant. in the movie theater, especially 1999, not knowing, and they were pretty good

at keeping secrets. So it was like, you know, you didn't know that was coming. And when that first one hits, it was like, is that a fucking frog? And then the next one hits.

And Riley's freaking out. And it was unforgettable. I love that moment when Malora Walters is sitting in her room doing lines and she's got the sheet up and you can see one frog fall, the shadow of one frog.

And you know that she's like, Am I hallucinating this basically. Then it leads to Melinda Dillon going to her house. It changes all of these different things, which is he's set up in the movie 17 hours ago at the start of the movie. But I don't know. I thought it worked. It's crazy. My mom's talked to me into this.

She's beating me down. I think her case is really compelling. I think it's actually one of the things in the movie that I wouldn't change at all. I think it's a really kind of quote unquote brave and really fun choice. It should have made the movie like really more of a phenomenon. Also, the poster, there were falling frogs. So the fact that we didn't see this coming, you know, it's on us a little bit, too.

It's interesting that this movie comes out the same year as Fight Club, which was another, like, super masculine guys need to grab control of their destiny kind of thing. It really did, this really was an era. Also, like an Is This Really Happening kind of movie. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, that's something that a lot of Blair Witch was the same way. A lot of the movies being John Malkovich, a lot of the movies we talked about on this show are really like,

what's going, three kings? What's going on here? Is this real? Or is this just in my imagination? Nobody would ever make this as a movie now. No, it would automatically be sold to Amazon or Hulu or Netflix or HBO, Max, or whatever. Unless the William Macy character was the Joker's origin story. What other unanswerable questions do you guys have about this movie? I guess that's like the what happens next is kind of big, you know? What do you mean? The next day after they clean up the frogs? What's Linda? What do Linda and Frank talk about the next day? I think after the...

What's date three for Claudia and John C. Riley? It's not lasting long. I think after the Trump presidency, the frogs are way more realistic. Like, Trump's our president. He's been the president for three years. He was hosting a reality show and was just a bozo and became the president. And I think that makes the frogs thing, makes me think there's a puncher's chance

that could happen in our lifetime. Frogs come on the rewatchables. That's all I have to say. I have... Oh, we got to do who won the movie. I'm about to ask you. Who won the movie, Bill? I mean, Cruz.

Cruz. But, you know, I was thinking about this yesterday, and I think... I know it's one of the reasons my mom loves this movie so much because she has someone resolved stuff with her mom because her mom died when she was 16.

I think this movie did the best example of when you realize somebody that you love is about to die, but you have so much unfinished business with them, you don't know what to do with it. And that's been a theme in a lot of different movies. And I think for whatever reason, this movie did that the best, which is why I'll always defend it. I think it's super flawed. It's way too long. Half of the characters don't work. But man, it taps into some shit. People use the Freudian motivations and the childhood trauma as explanation for future behavior in really flippant and easy ways, superhero movies and pretty

much anything. It's like because my dad. But this movie really like grapples with it. And it really grapples with the idea that this stuff is so fucking complicated and that sometimes you can love somebody who's a demon, you know, and that sometimes you can find love with somebody that doesn't make any sense to like a movie-going audience. We didn't do this and probably answer real questions because it seems pretty clear that he molested Malora Walters' character. Right? I think so. I think you're meant to believe that. Yeah. And then he was kind of drunk and fucked up all through the 70s and They keep it ambiguous. Yeah.

Was that the right move or should there have been... Did you want more or less information and you even want that platter? I think it explains a lot. I walked away feeling pretty clear about it. Yeah. Yeah. But did it need to be in the movie?

I mean, honestly, I always understood it a little bit as a nod to the Woody Allen story. And that there is a very clear kind of like, we can't say for sure if you're sympathetic to a person that says that they're a victim, then that is what happened. And if you're not, then you're not.

But, I mean, it's very, very similar to that story. Cruz wins. Cruz wins. I can't believe Cruz never won an Oscar. It's not over yet. Mission Impossible 7 coming soon. I think it's over. This was his best chance.

No fucking way. He's that he'll never get to the place that he got to in this movie again. Al Pacino had to wait for sin of a woman, which is his 38th best performance. Pacino takes chances. Cruz doesn't take chances like that. This is taking a chance for 15 years. These things are cyclical.

He's fucking Jack Reacher now. He's going to come back around. I'm confident that he's going to go for it one of these days. I don't see it. I think it's like Eddie Murphy. People are like, no, it's not happening. Ship sale. He needs to find a part that fuses the two things that he wants to do right now,

which is he wants to be in populist movies that people want to see, and he wants to be physically active. So he needs to play like a boxer, or he needs to play like a military person in a serious movie made by that real filmmaker. Or a marathon runner. Something like that. Something that is specifically underlines that he's still Tom Cruise and he's still the man,

but also requires him to act a little bit more than just jumping out of a plane. So this is the end of the rewatchables' 1990-feed if you enjoyed on Luminary. But with two more movies I think we're going to do in the other rewatchables feed. What are they? At some point, either this year or maybe next year, but Fight Club we have not done yet. Yep. And the one I'm the most excited for. just from a weird standpoint

to talented Mr. Ripley. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Tommy. How's the peeping? How's the peeping? Think back on Philip Seymour Hoffman's 1999. So how many was he in?

This, I think he was in three movies. Mr. Ripley and then he was in one more, right? It's funny because even when he was Scotty J., I never felt like something magical was going to happen. Yeah. You know, I was like, oh, that guy's cool.

Oh, the guy from set of a woman. It's great when an actor's career, though, can make you go back on their earlier work and you know where they're going. Yeah. Where he's like great in Twister, which is a bad movie. Yeah.

But it's just like, oh, that guy's really fun, but not thinking that anything, what was the third one? It's Joel Schumacher's flawless, which is a movie that is not aging well. However, Rosie Price. Not like Joel Schumacher's 8mmeter.

In 2000, he appears in almost famous. Yeah. In one of the great. Two days. Another movie that will really have to do at some point. Starmaking. You have friends? They all hate me.

Well, you mean to me again a long journey in the middle. Bill, Chris, this has been fun. Thanks, guys. All right, that's the end of that episode, but I did promise you a little five-minute snippet of Paul Thomas Anderson

talking about Magnolia and Tom Cruise from the interview we did with him in December 2017. Me, Sean, PTA, here we go. So when did you feel like you had complete command of the craft? Like, for where you wanted to be

where you can just be like, I'm making a movie. I'm just good at this. And this is, every detail is going to be perfect. And I know I'm just going to nail this. But, well, I mean, if I admitted to feeling that, wouldn't that make me, like, psychotic? No, no, no, I'm not saying, like, you're perfect. I'm just saying, like, with a baseball pitcher,

at some point in a baseball pitcher is like, I know what I'm doing. I have these four pitches. I know how to throw them. And I can do this. Confidence. Well, confidence. Yeah, confidence came for sure,

after Boogie Nights. During Boogie Nights and during the editing of it and feeling like looking at it and feeling like this is,

this is, I aimed it this way and I've kind of meant to do this. Oh my God. It worked. It worked. You know, there was definitely a confidence boost

from that big time. Is Magnolia? And then to have, to not, to feel that way, but then turn around and have other people feel that way and have, you know, sit in a big theater.

I never had that opportunity for my first film, sit in a big theater and watch people watch it and laugh and really get into it. It was like, right, okay, not only like, not only the confidence boost, but more just a wider understanding of like, okay, so I think I got the job. I think I know how to, I think I can do this.

But let me figure out. what more I can do with it. What else can I do? And then I wrote Magnolia, which that was just like too much confidence, probably. But that's okay. That was going to be my question. Was it supposed to be a challenge for yourself? I think it was just a challenge.

It was a challenge to write so personally and to write so nakedly about my life at the time and just, like, throw it all up and put it out there. But that seemed like the right thing to do at that time. It just seemed like I had no other experience except the one right in front of me, which had just happened, or dealing with the last couple years of my life. And like, it all just came out. Did you know Cruz had that in him?

Oh, yeah. What movie made you think he had it in him? You know, Rain Man. For sure, Rain Man. He's the MVP of Rain Man. That's one of my Oscar Reduce. Cruz has way harder rolling Rain Man. Way harder.

Yeah. Because he's an asshole, but I have to like him by the end of it. He's got so many, he has got so many more moves he has to pull. I get, yeah, I'd always loved Tom Cruise, like everybody else loved Tom Cruise. But Rain Man, man, I think I love Tom Cruise more than anybody loves Tom Cruise. And then, um, Born on the, 4th of July was an amazing performance and color money. Yeah.

I mean, those three, those were strong, you know. It's a little Frank T.J. Mackey and all three of those characters, too. A little dickish, something that you're attracted to. He's funny, too. Yeah. Cruz is funny. But you know what I was thinking about it, I mean, Cruz, when you see Tom Cruise on screen, name anybody else that,

can do that right now. They can do what Cruz can do. Who can, who, whether it's in his action films or whether it's in his dramatic stuff, Cruz is the fucking king. If you like step back a little bit and you're like, right, come on. Games on. It's fucking Cruz. I love watching those Mission Impossible movies.

The body of work, like if he was an athlete, we would be wondering what the hell is going on. Totally. Because risky business was 1982. Right. You know? And he was a kid in the movie, but he's probably a tiny bit older than that. But, you know, edge of tomorrow, was that one with Emily Blatt? Yeah.

It's a good movie. Yeah, but, I mean, in that sports analogy, too, I mean, he could, you know, as he gets older, if he loses his ability to jump off buildings and stuff like that, I'm not nervous about that at all because he's got so many moves to fall back on because he's got a big bag of tricks. A couple months, maybe a month ago I wrote about what Cruz's next move is, because he saw the great actors that we grew up with. Like Paul Newman, when he made the verdict, it was an important moment for his career

because he kind of aged. And it was a character that you don't really play when you're trying to be the A-list, you know, action hero actor. You play it when you're moving into the next part of your career. And I think Cruz is ready for one of those. He's ready for his verdict. That could be your next challenge.

Just, I think right around the corner, you're going to see that. It's going to be, yeah, cruises. Don't bet on don't bet against Cruz. All right, that's it for the podcast. I kind of feel like we have to hear from Craig, though, because it's, you know, it's part of the rewatchables in 2024. We got to hear from Craig.

So Craig, insert yourself in with a monologue right now. Okay, let's talk Magnolia. For a movie that, you know, I likely will never watch again. I've now seen it twice. And I watched it for the first time back in 2019 when we were doing the rewatchables in 1999. It has a lot of moments that will stick with you and performances that you will never forget. Julianne Moore is Linda Partridge's all time made its way into the overacting award sound drop. And Cruz is Frank Mackey.

Just like risky business, this is a top three Tom Cruise performance for me. Seduce and Destroy and Cruz as a pickup artist. I wish this movie was made 20 years later because what Frank Mackey would be doing online right now with the YouTube channel and TikTok and Instagram and whatever boner pills he's shilling and brain octane juice. I just would be all in and maybe we should revisit this and if Cruz does anything in the future,

it should be a Frank Mackey sequel. But I do think this is his most memorable performance outside of, you know, for people my age who we're more focused on the last 25 years of Cruz, we are not as, you know, stuff like born on the 4th of July, risky business, even though we maybe have seen those movies. That is not what we think of when we think of Cruz. We obviously think of Mission Impossible. But I would also say, Tropic Thunder is a huge,

huge moment for Cruz for young people. And it's why, you know, why we think that he has that funny, kind of interesting bone in him. And I do think this is his most memorable performance, maybe outside of Tropic Thunder. And it's a bummer that Cruz has limited himself to one-note action heroes for the last 20 years because when he needs to pull something out of left field and play a twisted, weird, funny, complex character. He's more compelling than anyone. But in general, with this movie, this movie reminds me a lot of Babylon,

Damien Chazel's movie, because this was PTA's third movie. He's around 30 years old. He was coming off an exciting, buzzy, kind of coming out party of a movie with Boogie Nights. He gets more leash, goes bigger, bolder, longer. This movie's three hours. And it got critical praise,

but it didn't perform well at the box office. And now, if you look at Chiselle in Babylon, It was the fourth film he directed. He's in his mid-30s. He's hit on two of his three first movies with La La Landon and Whiplash. And he gets the leash to go bigger. And he does. And he pulls no punches and he makes his three-hour epic.

And again, critically less acclaimed than Magnolia, probably also not a success in the box office. I loved Babylon and liked it more than Magnolia. But like Magnolia, you know, Babylon was deemed a miss. And so I just like that these directors are given chances to take ambitious risks. Obviously, I want these movies to work and be seen and last, but ultimately, I'm happy these movies are getting made. I liked Babylon more than Magnolia, like I said, but more than anything, I want to make sure directors get their chance to take a swing when they get up to the plate. So if you're under 30 years old and listening to this, one, amazing to have you still here.

Two, if you're not going to sit down and watch Magnolia, look, I get it. But at the very least, do yourself a favor and watch Tom Cruise play Frank Macon. as a pickup artist on YouTube and then decide. All right, thanks to Craig Horlebeck, art producer. Thanks to Sean and Chris. That's it for the rewatchables. We will have one more rock bottom movie for Rock Bottom Month. And then we're going to have to do some bangers to make up for it.

Because Rock Bottom Month, you know, this is what we'd love doing on the rewatchables. Sometimes we like to zag. Sometimes we just like talking about movies that are fascinating for whatever reason. Remember, the goal was always to have. an awesome episode about a movie. Not just to do a rewatchable movie, because I got to be honest, we're over 330 movies at this point.

We're starting to run out of rewatchable movies. This could be the last year for the feed. I'm just preparing you now. 2024, it could be it. It could be it for mankind, too. Who knows? Maybe the frogs will start falling out of the sky soon. I will see you next week on the rewatchables.

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