The Rewatchables - ‘Man on Fire’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

‘The Rewatchables’ is between you and god. It’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan’s job to arrange the meeting. They revisit Tony Scott’s 2004 action thriller ‘Man on Fire,’ starring Denzel Washington, Dakota Fanning, and Christopher Walken. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You can find The Watch with Chris Ryan. You still cranking that out? Absolutely. Twice a week. You find the Bill Simmons podcast. And today on the rewatchables, a movie we've circled for a long, long time. You think God will forgive us for what we've done with this podcast, Chris Ryan? Man on fire us next.

Have you protected a lot of children before, Mr. Creasy? No, you're in first. Do you have a girlfriend? What kind of question is that? Supposed to be studying history. history, creasy history. No, that's ancient history. Pizza!

When life is a commodity, then negotiating the ransom, I'm gonna go get her. You don't need a savior. She figured I got lost money. You need a savior. She showed him it was all right to live again. Man on Fire, Rated R. Tomorrow, only in theaters.

All right, this was on a short list of movies we had always planned on doing that we had to do, that we knew we had to do. that's one of the most rewatchable movies of the last 20 years. It's in the running for me for a favorite action movie of the last 20 years.

I wanted to talk that out with you a little later. Yeah. Interesting. I was thinking about it. I was trying to decide what action movie I liked more than this movie. And I think, unfortunately,

the answer might be Fast Five for this movie. I still love Fast Five. But this one's up there. Denzo, Tony Scott, 2004, and I told my dad we were doing this this weekend. He loves being on fire.

We should have had him come in. He loves this movie, and he was just like, definition of a rewatchable. Any moment of the movie, you can jump in and you're ready to go. And I was like, exactly. That's exactly why this is a rewatchable. It's like, oh, is he just starting to get to know Dakota Fannie's character better? Great, I'm in. Has swim practice started yet?

Yes. Oh, she's swimming now? I'm in. Oh, wait, she's been kidnapped and he's in the hospital now recovering. I guess I'm in. Uh-oh, now he's bad. People have to pay him. I'm still in.

Yeah. Any point you jump in. I usually start rewatchables with a really, like, a really, like, ornate reason why this film is important or why I love it. I just got to say, I like watching Denzel Washington Kill Guys. Which was like what the criticisms were in the movie. This is like Floyd Gundoli moment. Not just, like, watching Denzel Kill Guys for an hour.

Like, buttered your ass. Yeah. And I, like, Denzel Washington putting explosives up other men's rectums and telling them that it's time for them to meet God. This movie fucking rocks. The last hour of this movie is unreliated. Lending. You know, I think that I'll be curious to know whether or not you find on rewatch all the Pita

Creasy stuff to be as, like, fascinating as like each time. Can I give you my answer now? Absolutely. I actually like it more each time. Okay. I think that's my favorite part of the movie, but because it, I mean, there's like my daughter, that was my favorite age for my daughter, like that age nine, age 10. Right.

It's just that they're the best. That's like little girls. They're curious, but they still like you, right? Yeah. They're articulate. They're smart enough to know what's going on. You can hang out with them, but they're still little kids. And I think that's one of the reasons this movie gets me as a rewatchable is because, well, she's incredible in this movie.

Yeah. But their connection and their scenes that by the time she gets taken, every time, you're like, no. Even though I know she's getting taken. You've seen this how many times? I know they're taking her. It's a super modern movie, but at the same time, it's just the searchers. It's just there's, it's just death wish and point blank. It's like one of the great revenge movies ever made.

Yeah. It's one of my favorite Denzel's, but I was going through all my Denzel's, and I realize, you know, we sometimes do like, oh, this five-year run or this decade that this guy had. And Denzel, it's 87 to 2012. You know, it's like,

it's, Denzel needs to be talked about in the cruise zone. Wesley Morris just wrote a really great movie start and piece for the New York Times. And he talks a little bit about this where it's like, Denzel is just kind of in that, that never-ending tour,

kind of spot where it was like from here until like flight you know from 87 where it's like glory until flight in 2012 he makes like three bad movies if that yeah but he wasn't a season tickets guy I don't think until probably like the Malcolm X range that's like early 90s yeah it's 92 right yeah so basically from 92 to 2012 it's like Denzel's in a movie I'm at least gonna assume I'm going unless the reviews are terrible and in the second half of that and then I would go He starts making movies with Tony Scott. Yeah. And if Denzel Washington is in a Tony Scott movie, you have my attention.

They make three. Yeah. It catches, I didn't realize until the research. I think they make four. Crimson Tide, Deja, Guine. Oh, yeah, Crimson Tide. I forgot. I mean, the three in the 2000s.

I didn't realize until I did the research that Denzel was going through a little bit of an actor identity crisis. Because he had lost his love for the art form. He wins for Training Day. He wins the Oscar in 2001. and then there was a little bit of a what's next and Tony Scott catches him at the right time we can tell the story later but I do feel like Craig you're not going to believe this

this might be my favorite Denzel movie wow yeah I think it is I was thinking about it and I and there's so many and he's so important and I don't know if anyone other than Cruz has been on more rewatchables at this point and we haven't even done he got game yet

but I think I think this is my favorite start to finish Denzel. It brings all the different pieces of Denzel, right? We get a little, he got game, swaggered Denzel, when he has to let go. Yes. Kind of undercover to get stuff. We get, like, flight Denzel.

Like, I'm an alcoholic, and I'm just going to be up front. We get revenge Denzel. We get, like, connecting with other actors, Denzel. Like, what Denzel are we not getting in this movie? They put him in positions where, like, it's obvious that he's pretty impressive fanning, and he's obvious that he has a lot of reverence for Christopher Wallace. Walking.

And so, like, the scenes where he's with walking, which were largely improvised, are mind-blowing in this movie. But the stuff that he does with Fanning feels very real. It's so good. I think he does some of his best work, which is why it's so weird to reread the reviews. Oh, yeah. And the reviews are like... This was largely dismissed.

Yeah, this movie had a lot of promise. And then the last hour, it turns into like a generic revenge fest. It's like, generic, it turns into one of the greatest revenge fest like I've ever seen in a movie. Right. I've never seen any. This guy descends into hell, more or less, to, like, rescue this girl. It's very clean-instuity. Like, we did, when we did unforgiving, these guys who are getting revenge, but they don't

even feel that good about it. It's just something they fundamentally have to do. Yeah, and also the awareness that this is the only thing I'm good at. Yeah. And he says that to walking at the beginning, right? He has that, he's the first or second scene. I led it in the beginning of the pod. You think God will forgive us for what we've done?

And walking kind of looks at him, and he's like, no. Yeah. And you're like, oh, so the first of the beginning of the pod. these guys have seen some shit. Yeah. It's interesting, too, because this is a movie that was kicking around since, I think, the early 80s, right? So, like, the book.

Did they make it with Scott Glenn? And it's set in Italy where there was a lot of kidnappings at the time. In some ways, it kind of has that real, like, kind of diabolical revenge-minded movie, like, Commando, you know what I mean? Like, they did something to his family or they did something to something precious to him, and now he's going to unleash hell on these guys. and that you put it in this post-9-11 kind of environment. You know what I mean?

Where it's like these counterterrorism ex-CIA guys roving around the world with nothing to do. And it's an interesting like collision of these two things. And then you got to add into like aside from Washington giving, as you said, one of his best performances. It's just fucking pure hallucination, Tony. Like you do great shot Gordo. It's great framed Tony for that through this entire movie. and he's just like, it's like watching Jason Williams play point guard

where every shot is a trick. Every pass was like a behind the back, no look pass. Every shot in this movie is like the frames exposed and it's cutting and dissolving and the colors and yeah. I think he goes for it the most

of any Tony Scott movie in this movie. Like he's just, he's like, this is a revenge movie. I've got Denzel. I got a good story. I'm in a really cool location. I'm just fucking going for it. Yeah. And I'm with you

The most tricks It's probably the least conventional conventional movie he made Because it's really an action movie But it feels way more artsy than that I think the The last 15 minutes of this movie Are among my favorite

Of this century Do you mean from when he finds out That she's still alive on? When he goes To The Bridge Yeah I think I'm always going to watch that If that's on

I just am not, I'm like, at this time I won't watch. I'm always in. Now we're in the streaming era where it's harder to flip around, but I just, I love everything in that. And then you think like,

it's kind of morbid, but, you know, Tony Scott died jumping off a bridge and you think like this, oh yeah, this imagery is overwhelming and you think like how many times

he shows the bridge from these different things and then's walking and then you're like, man, I don't know, it takes you these weird places. And it's so emotional too.

Yeah, it's like the way in which Scott kind of can have such a chaotic filmmaking style and then still have something that's so emotionally resonant at the center of it, right? Yeah. Because a lot of like when he makes domino, it's like all over the place

and it's hard to like grasp on to like a narrative. But this is like the simplest story you can tell. This is a movie story they've been telling since they almost, since they started making movies. I think the thing that makes him so special, I mean, so many things made him so special as a filmmaker, but this is a movie where Denzel blows somebody up

by putting a bomb in their ass. He shoots somebody's entire hand off just for sport. Cuts some guy's fingers off. Cuts fingers off one at a time. But then in the same movie, you can have a moment like he has with Dakota Fanning at the end when she says goodbye. And she's like, I know you love me.

It's like, how is this in the same movie with the guy getting his hand shot off? And that's the difference to NIST and like John Wick and even unforgiven things like that. It's really hard to have moments like that. in movies like this. Oh, yeah. I mean,

in Unforgiven, they kind of rob him with the exception of the, uh, the prostitute who gets her face cut up. That's the one scene, right? When she clicks him,

but even when she's talking to him, yeah, he's like, I'm an evil person. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then like Denzel, like,

what does Walkin say? Like, she showed him that it was okay to live. Yeah. Right? It's like this idea that he has a reason to keep going on.

As far as the Tony Scott style stuff, there was a great article on the BFI of the British Film Institute website where the writer described this as like from Man on Fire onwards, he utilized cross-processing to heightened color, which is essentially why everything looks kind of surreal. And photochemically manipulated his film stock

and this experimentation produced what he called mistakes that inspire the magic that comes from accidents. And that's the coolest thing about these Tony Scott movies is they feel almost like documentaries are like chaos. Danzel called him nine camera Tony because he would shoot a sequence with nine cameras going the whole time. And yet somehow he comes out with this like, singular vision at the end of it.

I understand most things with movies. I understand if something's like a slow bake, it comes out, it wasn't as big as it became eventually or critically. People thought, I've never understood the man on fire thing. I've always thought, like, I've just been

from the get-go, my dad was like the first person who really loved it that I would talk to about it. I was like, this is like one of the best movies of the century, at least for me. And I never understood why it didn't hit, like, like I felt it should it's too sentimental in the first half and too too depraved in the second half so that

you and I will love it but for a lot of people they may be like man the first 45 minutes he's just talking to this kid I want to see Denzel kicks him ass or it's people being like I really loved his relationship with Dakota fanning and then he starts putting things up people's asses and blowing it up it's like almost too weird for them but then the filmmaking piece of it I don't know man he does so he does training day John Q at a time man on fire Manuring candidate all in a row and then kind of moves into the second phase of Denzel.

That probably starts with He Got Game in 98 when he's just making a lot of movies and he is now an A-plus lister that if he's in a movie, you're going. He got game, The Siege, the Hurricane. Yeah, it's like, oh, Denzel's in this, I'm going, and then Training Day cements it. Get the Oscar for that. Yeah, and he's one of the three or four.

He's becoming Nicholson, basically, for that generation. It seems like he basically just doing, I mean, I'm sure he would probably say, well, I thought all of these had chances, but like especially in this sort of second third of his career. Yeah. He'll do, Training Day gets the Oscar, Man on Fire,

and Inside Man, arguably are like really fun Hollywood movies. I mean, I don't know if you would call Man on Fire fun, but you know what I mean. Yeah. And then American gangster, he goes for the Oscar again, pretty much.

Which never totally hit. Yeah, but I actually really love American Face. I hope we do that one day. And then taking a Pelham, one, two, three, unstoppable in Flight is kind of like this last bit at Flight was in 2012.

and that was, I think, the last time he was nominated for an Oscar, if I remember correctly. He ages... Except Macbeth, maybe. He got game was the last time he looks like young Denzel. And he's even, like, a little younger. And then by the time we get to Man on Fire, he's now moving into, like, middle-aged. Yeah, he's starting to play with this idea that he's, like, decaying, that he's getting older. Mexico City is a location.

Which Tony Scott, I think, saw as, like, this fucking crazy playground for himself. Yeah. catches Mexico State in a really right time to film an action movie. I went there five years later for soccer. I wrote about it. They wouldn't let us leave the hotel basically. You went to Azteca? Yeah.

They wouldn't let us. It was like, you can go that way, but you're not allowed to go that way. It was like one of those. And this is pretty shortly later. But I think reading in the research about how this is supposed to be set in Italy, it's hard to fathom that. Yeah, I mean, so they had like this real rash of kidnappings in Italy. in the 80s and 90s especially.

And so I think by the time they had gotten the funding or wanted to do this movie, it was kind of like, well, it wasn't as big of a deal in Italy. And like, you have to have like the mafia. So they transpose it into Mexico and they bring Laharmandad in and stuff like that. It was a novel by A.J. Quineau.

They made a man on fire with Scott Glenn, as we said, in Italy. And then there's this whole story about the guy who wrote this movie, Brian Huggling. Yeah. He did Mystic River and he's, you know. I like confidential. Yeah, he's a half decent screenwriter.

I'm kidding. Nightmare on Elm Street, 4. So he was renting videos in the late 80s and walked into a store and asked the guy what was good and the guy recommended him on fire and it was Tarantino, it was the clerk. It's one of those stories that can't be real, but apparently it's a real story.

Sometimes of those stories, I'm like, was there a time when there was just like 25 people living in Los Angeles? It does feel like everybody knew each other a lot better. When you go back and you read Joan Didion books from the 70s and she's just like, I woke up and left my Hollywood Hills home and was in

Santa Monica in 18 minutes. I'm like, what the fuck? I went from Laurel Canyon to Malibu in nine minutes. Dakota Fanning was a big part of this movie when it came out. We already knew about her and she was a little bit of a prodigy, right? I think now you could argue

this is one of the great, or at least for me, this is one of the great kid performances. Just based it on like, what if the kid is bad? Think about how unwatchable this movie. What if the kid's a C plus or B minus? What if this kid's replacement level? Yeah.

What if the kid's decent? Is this a different movie? She's so good in this movie that I think it's one of the reasons it's an iconic movie, at least for me. And also, like, being a precocious kid is hard. Yeah. Like, if you're going to do,

I'm like, incredibly sensitive and verbose, it can be annoying really easily in a movie. Yeah. But she's like missing a couple teeth in real life. She just seems like a nine-year-old. And I don't know, I made my list of my favorite little kid performances. I think little

kid, I'm not counting like stand by me. It's got to be like 10 and under for like a true little kid. Is the good son number one? So I just... I mean, good son's on the list. Culkin. You want to mess with him. We did Justin Henry and Kramer versus Kramer. I thought he was awesome.

Henry Thomas and E.T. We did that one. Dakota in this movie. the little girl and Little Miss Sunshine, Abigail Breslin, is just lights out. Yeah. That movie's so funny. We'll do that one at some point.

What's your cutoff age? Like 13, 14? No, this is 10 and under. Okay. This is like really little kids. Little kid, little kid. Because I think to ask a little kid to actually act, I don't even understand how they find any little kid actors.

Right. Because little kids, like, they're, you know, they're dumb asses. They have too much energy. Like, I can't imagine how they even, like, remember lines. And so for him to go, her to go toe to toe to with Denzel, like inconceivable to me? The other one I really like, nobody's seen and I don't even think it's streaming,

is Drew Barrymore and irreconcilable differences, which is a great movie about a kid who files for divorce from her parents. Amazapids herself, yeah. Yeah, it's awesome, and she's great in it, and it's nowhere to be seen. But then, like, you know, then you get into the teenagers,

like the bad news bears, but I just think, and I don't know how old Natalie Portman was in the professional, but I think she was older than 10. She's like 11, I think. 11 or 12, so. She misses the cutoff. And I just think

this performance specifically for her... I don't think Denzel was totally into this movie until he started doing the scenes with her. I really think he was in like a weird spot and it's like, all right, Tony Scott, I'll do it. I'll kill some people.

And then he starts acting with her and he's like, this girl's amazing. And I think it like rejuvenated him. But that's what's so cool about this performance is there's an actual trajectory without it ever being like... Saccharin. Like he shows up, he's bearded,

he's kind of a... jerk openly is like I'm an alcoholic just FYI like I need a job but I am a drink I drink all the time then he shaves but he's like I'm not this girl's social like I'm not the new dog like you're maybe I'm not sociable enough for this job

then the swimming starts and he gets like into the whole gig and then the next thing you know she's taken and he's shot and then he's recovering and he becomes the eventage angel yeah this is what he told blackfilm dot com I read the script and I was like okay

Then I sat down with Tony And I was sure I wanted to work with him again He told me about this 20-odd year journey He's head with the material This was the film he wanted to do After The Hunger, a film I really liked. And then he was like, all right, Tony's fired up about this.

I guess I'll do it. And then it turns into this. Dakota Fanning, as an adult, said this On the movie she's asked the most about, I get a lot of men on fire. A lot of man on fire. A lot of people are fans of that I don't know if I've ever met someone

who's not a fan of Denzel Washington movies blah blah blah Well it turns out we find out last month They're making Equalizer 3 and she's in Equalizer 3 As a grown-up Did you know this? I did not know this They had a reen and she's

Denzel's making it with Anton Fuqua And there was some part for an adult woman And I guess Fuku I was talking about how much he loved man on fire And he was like you think we could get Dakota Fanning and all of a sudden they're back. That's amazing.

Yeah, it's Equalizer 3. We're fucking going, Chris Ryan. Opening that rewatchables. Oh, my God. $65 million budget made $130. This is Denzel's, any movie he's making is $100 million. There's like a period of time where if you look at the Denzel movies, they'll be like, oh yeah, I forgot about deja vu, $150 million.

He's just a movie story. He does that. Also, who is he competing against, right? It's Cruz. Will Smith at that point. wants no part of movies like this. Cruise isn't making movies like this. Fast and Furious isn't the kind of franchise

it wouldn't become until probably 0405 range. Yeah. So he's just getting every, that Keanu, he's like spitting those guys out. It's interesting they make John Wick and John Wick is I mean, one of the reasons I love John Wick

is it slightly a parody of movies like this? He's mad because they killed his dog. Yeah. Here there's some real stakes. Our guy, Raj. Here's the thing. is he doesn't, in the stars, number of stars he gives, it's like two and a half, right?

Even that made me mad, though. I felt like he liked it more than he was saying. I think he was getting snobby. He's like, I don't want to take shit for this. I think deep down, it was like a three and a half for Raj. And he was like, I don't want to lose my critic juice. Because, I mean, we know Raj loves story. We know he loves great performance.

He loves a setting. He loves the setting and he loves, like, great action scenes. He loves Mark Anthony. wasn't a three and a half for Raj, two and a half. He said superb craftsmanship, a powerful Denzel Washington performance in an attempt to elevate genre material above its natural level, but it fails. The strong opening levels out into a long series of action scenes.

Sounds good to me. Yeah. What's the criticism again? And the double reverse ending works more like a gimmick than a resolution. It does? It's one of the my favorite endings in the last 20 years, Raj. So I was disappointed, Roger. wait to talk to you about the alternate ending.

Oh my God. Let's take a break and then we'll do rewatchable scenes. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity.

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The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2% Center. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. All right. So I don't know how you do rewatchable scenes with this movie. The whole movie is rewatchable for me. I have a pretty, pretty down here. I cut it like to five, but I have like, I wanted to mention 12. The first two Denzel walking scenes, there's one in between, but I'd just lump them together. How many hours could you have watched of those two just acting? I wish they would make Yellowstone with these. two guys and we were on seasons five.

Can they do that? Why not? Can that be like 1963? It's 40 years after 23. It's 63, yeah. When Walken actually says in this movie, we can live like kings down here, I'm just like, I can't believe we're still,

this is so awesome. We're looking king down here. Yes, you do. You're going to work? Yeah? No. No. Been moving around, you know, Columbia a couple of weeks.

I can't name. Nothing catches my fancy. Anytime guys go down to Mexico to live like Kings, you know you're in for a good movie. That's a great point. I'm trying to think if there's any time I've ever heard that in a movie where I'm like, oh, that's disappointing.

Walkin's great in this movie. Yeah. He's just bringing the Christopher Walken. He's not too weird. He does lick his fingers and eat constantly. Yeah. But yes, he's amazing. He's chewing up scenery, but not too much.

And he gets the line of the movie. Yeah. Even at half speed, you're pretty damn good. Gives him that one. I just love watching those guys. The next one I had was the first Denzel Dakota fight when she goes in the backseat. It sounded like a question to me. Look, I got a job.

Hey, no, no, no. Listen, you're being paid to protect you, okay? No, no, no. I'm being paid to be your bodyguard. Look at me. I'm not being paid to be your friend. I'm being paid to protect you. So no more questions.

That's it, period. You hear me? Yes. Good stuff. You don't know where she's going. You don't know if she's going to run away. She's just like, fuck this guy and goes to the back. She's like, all right, this girl's got a little spunk tour.

I like this. I'm just lumping all this together. Creasy, you're smiling. You're smiling. What? You were smiling? No, no. You were?

No, I was not. You're not now, but you were. No, you were smiling. I wasn't smiling. You were. When? Like five seconds ago. I'm not smiling.

Well, a second ago, you were? No, you said five seconds ago. Now, that's six, six seconds ago. Okay, ten seconds ago, I was smiling. Okay, in the next ten seconds ago, let's see who smiles first. When she makes him smile for the first time, into the swimming training, into, you have a girlfriend, Creasy, into the swimming meet. And the reason I think you got to put all them together is like, Denzel, and I think he's doing this as the actor, but he kind of brings the character back to life during this stretch for 10 minutes where you can see the... Yeah, the light comes back in his eyes.

He's no longer chambering rounds from his semi-automatic and catching them while drinking Jack Daniels alone. Sadly puts the Jack Daniels bottle on the side. It's weird because on the one hand. Top five most disturbing behaviors that you could catch a person in the middle of. Like if you walked into this studio right now and I was just like with a bottle of Jack. You're like, hey, it's happened. It's my third part of the day. Shut, not to laugh, I'm just sarcophic.

You know, Denzel's interested in me because on the one hand, I do feel like he's playing Denzel or a version of Denzel in every movie, right? Sure. That's what movie stars do? Yeah. It's like, Wesley put it very well. It's variations on a theme. On the other hand, I actually, this is weird to say,

but I actually don't think he gets enough credit for what a brilliant actor he is. Because, like, what he does in that 10 minutes is, like, top of the, line ridiculous acting. I don't know how many actors could have put that together. I think he's obviously known for performances like Training Day and Malcolm X that he gets award nominations for, but I would say that

Denzel's floor is higher than almost anybody else. And that's why I love watching him in the siege. Like Janice. Anybody could be in the siege. Anybody could be that part. There's some specific parts about it that are very key to having a black male

playing that part. But Denzel Washington in the siege is so much fucking better than anybody should have to be in the siege. Yeah. And you're just watched, I've seen that movie like 10 times because I'm just like, oh, I just want to watch Denzel yellow to Net Benning.

Right. This is like, this is great. Yeah, he'll have like those, I mean, that he got game scene when he did the one-on-one and when he talks to Jesus after. Like, he'll have moments where he's just like, Jesus Christ.

I don't feel like he doesn't get quite enough credit because he's so famous. Like, his fame almost eclipsed the acting. Yeah. In some ways. And then Training Day became the Oscar, but I don't know, man. I feel like he has moments in different movies

that are as good as like anything he did in Traynit. Anyway, that's why stupid Dead Zill rant. The kidnapping scene, which we're also giving the Great Shot Order Award for most cinematic. Yeah. That's a fucking, send that to the film school people. Put the USC kids in their little rows

and just show them the fucking scene. Like when fanning, the gunshot goes off, Dakota realizes what's happening. And then it reverses back the frame again. But it starts with the dog. It's like, all right, this guy's getting out with the dog. He's going to throw the ball. This is bad.

It needs to the one cop car pull up. It's just everything is so structured perfectly. How does this two and a half stars, Ebert? What the fuck? Then she opens the door and says, no, no, no, go back in. Go back in. And he's shooting the gun to kind of scare everybody, like to create a chaos. Yeah.

Oh, man. And then he takes four point blankers. Yes. But she never actually get surgery from. It's like one of the things I want to talk out about. I went right through. Yeah, that's right. Flesh wound.

That seems amazing. Then we get the, what are you going to do? Would I do best kill them all? What are you going to do? What I do best? I'm going to kill him. When I was involved, anybody who profited from it, anybody who opens their eyes at me.

We just have him going up. torturing the driver. Yep. There's fingers. No say! No say! Okay, my friend. It's off to the next life for you. There's three torture scenes. There's fingers, the rave, and Fuentes.

Yeah. Who's the bus? Who's the boss? The voice. And then we get, in the middle of that, we get Waukins monologue. A man can be an artist. And anything, fool, whatever.

It depends on how good he is creasy's art is death he's about to paint his masterpiece anybody a man could be an artist at anything food whatever he's licking his fingers

depends on how good he is at it creasy's art is death he's about to paint his masterpiece that's really good Bill thanks man thank you the next one I have is just Denzel kills everyone and steals a car

Denzel blows up somebody's asshole and Denzel confront Samuel and Lisa. And then Danzel shoots a guy's handoff. Yep. I don't know. You can't, you're not picking any of those, but I enjoyed all of them. No. What'd she call the bear, Chris Ryan? Hold on, I'll check.

Creasy bear. And then we get the bridge in the reunion. For me, it's the last like 14 minutes. Just give me when they're at the bridge and he has to get Dakota fanning. That's my favorite part. I think I'm going to go with the Flentes scene starting with

Denzel Washington walking into that old couple's house with a rocket launcher and being like forgiveness is between them and God, it's my job to arrange the meeting. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. And that couple pretty nonplussed by a guy showing up with a shoulder armed rocket launcher.

All the women in this movie who have Denzel just stumber like are very calm. Yeah. But they kind of know what's going to happen. Great job by the rocket launcher. What'd you have for most rewatchable, Craig? Not even close, Denzel and Dakota Fanning swim practice.

I could have watched that for three hours I think I could have too. We have a lot of things to say. I wish you had more time. A gunshot knows no fear. What's age the best? Look, if you're going to start a movie with a graphic that says

there's one kidnapping every 60 minutes in Latin America, 70% of the victims don't survive. Yeah. That's your opener. I don't even care who's in the movie or what's happening. I'm going to watch the entire movie.

I want to know whether the guy who wrote that title card also wrote the title card. Dead of Thieves? No. In Mexico, Sicario means hitman. What was the Dead of Thieves one? Every 20 minutes a bank is robbed in LA or something? It's like, is it?

Every 20 minutes? What's age the best? Fucked up, Mexico City is an action movie location. The only thing I can compare it to is Brazil and Fast Five. Or Brazil and City of God too, yeah. Yeah. Brazil, Fast Five used Brazil as a game. character in a really great way.

They have that chasing through the favelas and all that stuff. It's just great. We got Trent Resner, dude, the score in this. He's featured. Harry Gregson Williams does a lot of like

the down down stuff, yeah. I kind of like have a Mark Anthony in the movie. Don't even, do you want to have this conversation? I think he's awesome. Let's do it.

Yeah. He's excellent. And I totally forgot about this. Why don't do we act more? I don't know, but that scene where he's in the backseat and he's just like, you look at your resume, like how, like, you should be so much more expensive.

He's like, I drink. And the way he doesn't, he just, like, looks out the window briefly and is like, how does that affect you? But he's, like, going toe to toe with Denzel in that scene in, like, a very cool way. He's very believable. You can kind of see him getting pushed around by Mickey Rourke. You can kind of see him getting pushed around a little bit by Rod and Mitchell.

But he's kind of got, like, at the end when you find out it's him, when you find out it's like, he's orchestrated the kidnapping. You're kind of like, oh, fuck, I like this guy. Yeah. You motherfucker. Yeah. He's good. I thought Radda Mitchell was really good too.

Leading, well, unanswerable now. Why wasn't she a bigger star? What was she missing? She was Australian? Yeah. This was like her big movie.

Just got a lot of wife parts. You know, a lot of wife parts of movies I like, but she kind of got just cast into that. Kind of like what happened to Ashley Judd. Well, I was going to say almost more like Kathleen Quinlan. Like she just winds up being the guy's wife

in a lot of situations. She could have definitely been Chris Chalaris's wife with Tankazaria, right? Eight years later, she's holding the baby on the balcony. Sure. Do you guys know we're, I can buy some bread? What did we decide to say bread? We've been told it was like,

do you guys know any place to rent? Like, I'm looking for a place to rent, I think. I was just watching Heat. You're not going to believe this, but like two weeks ago, and I just can't get over that they let him go. I just don't understand how they're I'm so glad they did because when you check out Heat 2 and you find out what happens to Chris

you're going to be excited What's age the best Dakota Fanning swimming Yeah She trained herself Young Ladecky Tony Scott And I'm going to add this to the what's age the best

Tony Scott treats these swim scenes Like fucking Friedkin did blue chips With the bat Like he's like if we're doing swimming I'm making this like fuck ordinary people fuck all these different when they have swimming things

and it's close up so that like we're we're having a fucking swim It's also nine year old nine year old girls swimming you'd think it was like Mexico versus Argentina and the World Cup semi final

there's fucking nuns there there's just like all these people come out to this meat amazing stuff And the best part about is he just like Tony Scott went to a swim meet for his nieces and was like

I got to do a swim meet I got to throw a swim meet I got to throw a swim meet somewhere and man on fire. I loved it. Yeah. I'm with Craig. You could have added

10 more minutes. Could we have seen or gone to the Mexico Nationals before Creasy died? Morwood's age the best. Anytime there's a The Voice and a kidnapping movie. Yeah.

When we read our kidnapping movie, we're having the voice. What city are we going to do? What are we going to do? Columbia? Have people on Columbia yet? Maybe we should do it in Dallas so that we can get a little Kennedy action.

Kennedy Museum action. 60th anniversary. Meet me at the book depository. I also love La Hermandad just as a name of like an evil empire that's like policemen. But La Hermandad means brotherhood in Spanish, right? Yeah, it's just like sounded like...

It's kind of like repetitive where they're like, there's a brotherhood here called La Hermandad. Any other words, what's the best for you? Couple. Yeah. Anytime anybody in an action movie write something down on a piece of paper and gives it to their friend and that person says

you're talking about a war you know shit's about to go down That's a great one. Great point. I hate this because obviously gun control is a major issue in this country right now but watching Denzel Washington shop for weapons is pretty exciting to me. I think that's aged really well. Always a good scene. I mean

Wick stole that too. Wick cribbed some stuff from this movie. Whenever you give a guy a gun with one bullet and tell him to do the right thing Like he does this Sammy. He just like puts the bullet in his head and he's just like, you know what to do here, my man. Yeah.

It's kind of like true detective where he's just like you should kill yourself before you get to prison. It's just, it's really good. I'm with you. And I like the way the camera acts as like basically will represent creasy's senses. So like when he revisits the crime scene, we not only get his memories of the crime of the crime, but his awareness of Mariana's driver is there. And like so he's like very defensive when he goes back to the crime scene. So I just, I just love that.

I'm going to piggyback on that. I always love when they go back to the spot where something happened. Yeah, he's like, and they, we get the flashback shots. Sticking his finger up in the air. Because we just had that blowout too, right? Or it's like, oh, the owl. Like going backwards. I also really like Mark Anthony's golf simulator that he has in his house.

Yeah, what was coming on with that? The balls only went like two feet. Where the balls go? Yeah, they just hit, he hits it into the screen and it projects where it would have gone on the fairway. Got to go on. I don't know who won the Kid Cuddy Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. The rave scene is pretty great

and it almost sounds like Fire Starter by Prodigy, but I don't think it is. Okay. Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink. Obviously the Jack Daniels bottle, which was nominated for Best Supporting Actor in 2005. I was going to say,

my favorite is the lunch scene after like swim practice or the swim meet when Denzel takes Pita to go out with Christopher walking in his girlfriend. Oh yeah, there's like a double date. Yeah, you're right. But it's just like, who are we having lunch with?

Oh, my CIA buddy. We did a lot of redacted killings throughout the world. We decapitated 12 people in 1984. The Den and Thieves Benny Hano were at best scene stealing location. Samuel and Lisa's house was great. Pretty good. I wonder why they couldn't, how come they didn't consider maybe like scaling down a little bit in their house before orchestrating the kidnapping of their daughter?

You mean like Yeah maybe just get rid of a couple of expenses Maybe maybe get a condo or something And see if you can keep the business afloat My favorite The bridge I would have as well in the running Oh I have the newspaper's open air offices Oh really cool

Yeah Reform was open air offices Butch's girlfriend week leak in the film So you're not going to do great shot Gordo You're just skipping it? We did it already We have more you want to do more? I just want to say that when Fuentes is stuck in the burning car when he puts the grenade under

it, there's a shot where it's like the reflections of the flames make it look like Fuentes is on fire which is like, of course, because he's going to go to hell in a minute. Pretty good. You like that, Gordo? You think Gordo would approve? Yeah. I don't have a Butch's girlfriend award for a weak link of the film because I love

every part of this film. What about you could tell me it's a little slow after he gets shot? Oh, John, yeah, you're right. I just don't know what he does in the movie because the newspaper, Rachel To Cotton does everything in terms of investigating. Why does he get the Mark Wahlberg into the departed murder thing?

Why did he earn that? I guess if I'm going to do Weeklink, I don't like how this ends with the date Creasy dies, but then the date the other guy dies after and then it ends? I would say that the title card of John Creasy, 1964, 2004, or whatever it is, is the worst part of the movie. I don't know why they did that. Yeah. This isn't John Adams.

But then they have the next guy, too, and then it ends. It's like, we definitely didn't need either of that. This movie got chopped up a little bit. You think? Yeah, because you can see in the deleted scenes, there's some stuff that kind of explains it a little bit better. What's age the worst? I mean this in the nicest way possible,

but there was a moment there when we thought Dakota Fanning was going to be the biggest actress in the world. It did not happen. I think it's hard for a kid who pops at that young of an age to sustain it throughout. We thought it with Portman, too, and at least she won an Oscar. But who knows?

She has a soccer team now. She's got the swimming. Maybe it's a competitive swimming movie. Other what it tastes are worst. I mean, I guess some of the violence in this maybe has an age great, but it wasn't great in 2004 either, but I don't really have anything else. To my ear, Roda Mitchell develops a southern accent midway through this movie. Yes. Especially when she gets upset, she's like, don't you do that?

And I'm just like, when did this happen? I didn't even notice that. How did I not notice that? I love accents. I also think Denzel's Spanish kind of goes in and out. Yeah. He's not great.

He kind of like mumbles all his words together. He kind of slurs him all together a lot of the time. Like, no one's understanding it. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, he also, he goes back and forth between Spanish and English a lot. He said he would got three months of training to kind of... Wouldn't you say that?

I love when they do that. What is three months of training? Hey, let me just hear you roll the R's. What seems the worst? John Creasy rave attendee. You know, It just doesn't seem really comfortable with the bandana on his head.

That's another thing Wick ripped off. Yeah, the reef. Yeah, I love John Wick. I don't mean to sound like I'm ripping on John Wick, but it did crib a bunch of things from this movie. Especially like the indestructible guy you don't want to fuck with. Yeah.

Ron Burgundy Flute Award for Best Time for P-Break. Look, I'm just saying on the 6th, 7th, 12th viewing of this movie. You can make a baked potato for the first 45 minutes and then come back. Just almost the walk-in scenes. Yeah. You basically listen to the walk-in scenes and then you come back in when he gets the license plate for Jorge. Yeah. I could say when he's in the hospital after he's been shot, it might be a good time.

There's about five minutes there. It's totally fine if you want to make a Stouffer's French bread pizza. Yeah, whatever. Was there a better title for this movie? There might not be a better title for any movie. It might be the best title for. for any movie. If a movie called Man on Fire came out every year,

I would probably see it. I'd be like, I have to see what he's on fire about. In the running for best action titles ever. Unforgiven's pretty good, too. Commando is pretty good. Yeah, there's been some good ones. Predator's pretty good, yeah.

Best quote, you said forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange a meeting. The best cheesy quote was revenge. Is a meal best serve cold? Can't believe he broke that chestnut out? Yeah. I don't know where that it was like a fucking fortune cookie

This is easy This is a man could be an artist And anything Food whatever It depends on how good he is It at Chrisi's artist death He's about to paint his masterpiece That's like best monologue though

That's like two sentences SAS hottest take Okay my friend off to the next life for you I guarantee you won't be lonely Hotest take I already said that I think this is my favorite Denzel movie I think that's a hot take

Right that is a hot take yeah I felt hot not as hot as maybe the guy burning in the car but hot what do you got anything Sammy's financial woes seem largely rooted in his father's gambling and I just want to give you a chance to

A prequel? Yeah well I want to give you a chance to apologize because are we sure Sammy's dad wasn't following million dollar picks Hey one 1.5 million this week Sammy's dad is just taking a bath on the Panthers and Simmons told me to do it.

There's a medical podcast host that I really like. He says Carol Hutt is going to turn it around. Yeah, I had one that I was working out where it's like, you know, are we sure, like this kidnapping idea? Wasn't like a good business plan. You know what I mean? It was just going to, like, she was going to go eat ice cream and watch cartoons, come back, the business would be back.

But I was going to do this in picking nits. Let's do it now. Any plan where it's like somebody's taking my kid for two days? Sure. I'm just blinding. out. Yeah. Like the lawyer, especially the shady lawyer, but you're bringing that to me and it's like, hey, I got this idea. Let's hear it. So your kid gets kidnapped in a bloody shootout, but you're going to get her back. She's going to be watching cartoons and this would be great. How do you greenlight that? How fucking stupid do you have to be? She's like, wait a second. Chris is pretty candid about the fact he's like, I'll kill a bunch of guys. Yeah. If this happens, like, if I'm pressed, like it's going to be on. And they're just like, I'm, I'm just like, I'm, it's going to be on. And they're just like, I. well, we'll just, we'll still grab her. Or if you're going to, I mean, this is another

nitpick I had, but Creasy survives, you got to take them out in the hospital. Yeah, well, that's why they have to move. Don't let that guy live. How would you feel about you get approached to have been kidnapped to prop up your business?

And then the lawyer's like, and by the way, like, my fee is two and a half a million. Is there any wiggle room on that? 25% cut on your child's kidnapping. Casting what ifs. Let's take a break because this is a huge casting one of. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana.

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Casting what-ofs. Tony Scott revealed that he turned, that he offered the role of Creasy to our guy, David Caruso. No, Russell Crowe. He said, quote, I called Crowe, who's on the set of master and commander.

And I said, some man on fire? He said, listen, pal, have you seen proof of life? I said, yes. He said, I've been there, done that. This is why, here's what I don't get is,

why is this not the sequel to proof of life? Why is this not Terry? It doesn't work out with him and Alice. He's kicking around South and Central America. You know, it's not the sequel because nobody like Proof of Life except us.

Well, I mean, like, just listen to us, Hollywood. We have some good ideas here. Yeah. You're right. Terry Thorneverse was right there. He's in Mexico City. Yeah, he's started drinking after Alice goes back to David Morse.

Yeah. And this is where he winds up. His buddy Walking is like, why don't you come hang out with me? Then maybe we get Caruso in here. So Caruso is with walking. Yeah, Dino shows up. And Russell Crow. So I don't want to lose Denzel, but you really, I mean, that is a great alter in a universe.

Proof of Life to Colin Mexico City. I can tell you that I would have been there on Friday at noon, open a night. So Crowe says no. Bummer. There's some stuff that De Niro might have been offered, the Royal Creasy, which I'd find hard to believe. I think it's because it was a project that was around since the early 80s, so pretty much every major, it's like Tom Cruise, Robert De Niro, Bruce Willis.

The most intriguing one to me was Wolf Smith. This would have been a good Will Smith part, but he wouldn't have been as good as Denzo. There's some Marlon Brando was supposed to be Rayburn. character. Not sure if I believe that. Wawkin was supposed to be the lawyer. The Mickey Rock Park. And he wanted to play the other guy.

He was tired of playing bad guys. Thank God. And then Fukuwa and Michael Bay were both offered the chance to direct the movie. Did Michael Bay and Tony Scott, should that just be a ringer podcast where each episode, we talk about a movie. One of them could have directed that the other did. And just think about what this director would have done with this scene. Babe versus Scott.

We just alternate universe it. I got to be completely honest. If Antoine Fukuwa and or Michael Bay wanted to remake this movie now, I would be pretty into it. Is Denzel in it? Well, no. I mean, I guess not if it would be any kind of a sequel or extension of this first one. Wouldn't it be cool if they did it and they had Dakota Fanning going back to Mexico doing the job that Creasy used to do? Woman on fire?

How tall? Could she pull it off physically? I don't know. Tom Cruise can... Craig, Craig, how tall is Dakota Fanning? You've got to be at least 5'9. Five-four. Five, four, too small.

Okay. See, that's part of the... I never... Don't kill off characters when you don't have to. That's why you put the date at the end where he died and whatever. It's like, all right,

now I can only get a sequel. You could have had him fall asleep in the car. There's a series of books about Creasy. Yeah. They made the choice to do it this way. Second movie could have been him, you know, he goes away in the car, but now he's in a cellar

and he fucking gets out of it. Yeah. Stupid. Or you could have just made a sequel where it's like, he just becomes one of the most renowned swimming coaches in the Western United States. He takes over Matter-Dyes

program. The Rough Low Hand and Rubenac Partridge overacting award. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady! I come in here, I give these things to you. Give me all you got! Give it all you got!

I treated you like a son! You fucking stand me in the heart! Fuck you! Now, again, we both love Mark Anthony in this movie, but I did it. I did it for the tree of us. I did an inherited kingdom.

That's the truth. And we'd have it back in two days. He lied to me. That's why he's fucking dead. I did it. I did it, Lisa. I agree with the kidnapping. I did it for us.

For the three of us. That's tough. He does dialed up. That guy award, Jean-Carla Gianni. Yeah. The official Italian dubber of Al Pacino. I think that Rachel Ticottin qualifies as that guy, right?

Total Recall. I mean, not for me. Yeah. She's Rachel Tocotton. She's great. So, I see stuff like that, and it really makes you wonder how deep-seated the racism was with the casting in like the 80s, 90s, 2000s. Because I think she's fucking awesome. In this movie, she's amazing.

She's awesome in total recall. And it's like, how did that person get five parts anyone's ever heard of? Why wasn't she like a major actress? She's so good in this movie. It makes me mad. Deon Waiters Award, she's one of the candidates. Miki Rourke and our winner, Christopher Walken. How many has he taken down?

He might have the most Dean Waders. Walker is also in this particular era is just out of control in the Dion Waders. He was like getting signed, you know. He was like a permanent heat check guy. He's like Jordan Clarkson. Yeah. Just come in and put up your shots. Should we change this to the Jordan Clarkson Award so it's more current?

Well, he gets starting. He starts for Utah, doesn't he? Yeah, good point. The Malik Monk Award? Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Light the Beam. Let's go. Craig, can we change this officially, the Malik Monk Award?

Craig, do you have King's Fever? I don't. I like Dion Waiters, though. I think he captures what this is wrong. I know, and it's like, Dion, he hasn't gone on to have a podcast or beyond anything, so this is where he lives on. All right, fine. Every once in why you guys talk me out of changing it.

recasting couch. Just walk through this with me for a split second. I'll give you two options. Jolie is as the mom. 2004 Mr. Mrs. Smith Jolie. Okay.

Javier Bardem as the Mark Anthony part. Okay. That's our couple with Denzel. That's a really hot couple. Yeah. It's hard to imagine them having money problems, but okay. Is it a better movie? 2004 Jolie

2004 Jolie Smoking Hot living in Mexico City about to ruin Jennifer Anderson's marriage And Bardam who's like three years away from No countries

But still young I like it I kind of like it I lose Mark Anthony in this gamble though You do That's why it's a little alternate university Um

We mentioned some of the stuff and half-ass internet research already. Should we talk about the deleted scenes here? Yeah, let's do that at the end. Let me get a couple quick ones. Mickey Rourke and Denzel did not get along during the filming. Love that. Does Mickey Rourke get along with anyone?

No. It's like a fucking, when you go over to somebody's house and they have a Rottweiler, I'm like, hold on. Don't look at the Rottweiler. Have you eaten yet today? Because he can smell it. Hold on, let me get the Rottweiler outside or he'll attack you. Do you think Rourke is like, I should be playing Creasy?

Yeah. I think he was. I think he's kind of like you must be excited to be in a movie with Denzel. He's like, ah, fuck that guy. Denzel should be excited to be the reverse. Dakota was missing her front teeth during the filming. They thought about fake teeth

and then decided not to use them, which I thank God. I thought that missing teeth were really important. Plus, where the teeth were for little kids, like when you're like little past six, you lose the two front ones, right? Then the rest of them start going, but kind of the weird ones start going around age.

She has a little bit of a list, but it's fun. Yeah. Denzel spent 10 days with advanced weapons training specialist to prepare for the role. No shit.

Mexico City police told Tony Scott that his crew was targeted for kidnapping. Several crew members were robbed at gunpoint. I love that. The graphic at the end

was like a special thanks to Mexico City a special. Thanks for not killing us. The kidnappers were modeled after the infamous Arzmendi gang. which made $300 million in ransom in six years

and then last but not least the original ending. Yeah, so there's a couple of deleted scenes including an original ending that has Denzel being brought to the voice to his house, and then at the very end you find out that Denzel has given himself the butt bomb and blows up the house.

There's also a scene that's worth noting, which is that there's a sex scene between Denzel Washington and Roda Mitchell. Yeah. Which explains some of the same. some weird scene some weird dialogue that happens in the movie where she's just like...

Some weird chemistry that they shouldn't have. Yeah, and Roda Mitchell at one point her character, Lisa is like, I keep thinking if we just had never and then dot, dot, dot, dot, and it doesn't really finish the thought probably because it was cut. But they have, like, basically

there's an attempt on Lisa's life or there's like an action scene where Denzel saves Lisa's life and then after that they have sex in a car. So this is exactly what happened with proof of life. Mm-hmm. Where they left the whatever happened

with Russell Crow, Meg Ryan ambiguous and it made the movie weirder. Yeah. And same thing here. And then the end, yeah. So obviously it's a very definitive ending, but it has like the totality of the revenge. Like the voice gets got. Tony Scott cut the scene because he felt that it did not fit in with the tone

of the film. I don't understand how it didn't fit in the tone of the film. He's blowing up somebody with a bomb in his ass. It feels like that fits right in, actually. But, I don't know. I'm okay with those. And it shows that he wouldn't ask anyone to do anything that he wouldn't ask himself to do, you know? Throwing in the sex scene with Radha Mitchell

I think would have been weird. But I do think they needed one more scene together. Well, there's something strange about the whole movie because, so, like, when Mickey Work first approaches Sammy about getting a bodyguard because his insurance policy is about to run out, right? Yeah. There's, like, this bit about, like, and then your wife can save face

and I can't tell if she's maybe hooked up with Emilio, the bodyguard beforehand, and that's why he got let go or something. Oh, interesting. Like, I think that there's a little bit to it where, like, Sammy and Lisa are not, like, always getting along, and there's some, like, problems there. And there's-Marthews with J-Lo. Right. Mark Anthony's, like, working on his golf swing.

Stealing J-Lo from Ben Affleck. Apex Mountain, Denzel, no. Tony Scott, no, walking, no. Dakota Fanning's, they. interesting one. I think you could argue yes. Because it just felt like she was going to be

this generational actor. Yeah, she's like a child who goes toe to toe with Denzel Washington. Kid swimming meets fucking fuck yes. Fuck yes, Craig. Give me a whole Netflix series about that movie. Oh my God, last chance you

with him? Drive to Swim Vive. The kidnapping movies. There's either trained or untrained. Yeah, that was a good I like that trained or untrained thing. Yeah, there is no tough. There is just trained and untrained.

Yeah, that's good. Kidnapping movies. Are you going to say taken or you can say this? I think it, I think it's probably taken. Taken spawned, how many sequels? Three? Mm-hmm.

It made the most money. It made Liam Nise and Action Star. He's still fucking released two movies here. I don't really know if they make Taken it without man. I may have fired. makes taken possible. That's a good point. For me, it's number one.

For me, for kidnapping movies. It's still my favorite. I like it a little more than Proof of Life. And I love Proof of Life. Yeah. 1A, 1B, maybe. It depends on your definition of... Yeah, I think this is probably it.

It's definitely Rushmore. I mean, the thing is Denzel is in it. And Denzel is one of the five most important actors we've had since you and I have been alive. Yeah. For a whole bunch of different reasons. So I think that pushes it over the top. Rachel Tickadin,

is that how we pronounce her name? I feel like we're mad going out. I thought it was Ticcaten, but I'm not sure. I think you're right. I still think it's total recall. Yeah. It's one of the great science fiction movies of all time. Mexico City is an action locale.

I think so. Probably, yeah. Yeah. 21st century action. Sicario's Mor Juarez stuff. Yeah. 21st century action movies. It's a big conversation.

I gave you my... It's Fast 5, it's WIC 2, and this, and I think those are my three. And probably one of... Dark Night doesn't count as an action movie. I think that's a comic book. Yeah, you get into, like, does Den of Thieves count as an action movie,

or is that more of a crime movie? Oh, and the town. Right, town. Yeah, I really love the town. I don't know. I'm confused. Town's pretty great. But would you call the town an action movie?

Yeah. It's not an action movie? What is it? Crime drama. Well, then this is a crime drama. Yeah, I know. But I'm saying like, if you were like, oh, hey, I saw a man on fire, what genre is it? What would you say? Action.

Okay. I would say the town's a crime movie. What do you think, Craig? I agree. Town crime movie. Craig just didn't Chris's corner. Jesus. God.

You need to get a second person in here. Best race horse name. I think Creasy would be a great racehorse name. If you're at the track and they're like, and here's Creasy is number four. I would just go with Horse on Fire. Horse on Fire is great. Yeah, just like if you're just like,

and down the stretch comes horse on fire is gaining. That's a great name. Horse on Fire. Pickin' Nits. Creasy just walks off those four bullets. It's just good with them. Right back in action a month later. Staying in some weird hospital.

Getting like probably third rate of health care. Like regularly bleed out for a little while. Like that's part of his like restoration process is he'll just be like hanging out bleeding in pools. I'm positive. That's not how you recover from gunshot wounds. Just continually bleeding. It feels like there's a whole bunch of ways that could go horribly wrong. Mention why wouldn't they kill Creasy in the hospital.

How about would you bleed to death if you got your hand shot off? or get your fingers sliced off. Well, that one guy gets his hand shot off. Yeah. And then they show him later and he's just got this stump and it's not even bleeding. It looks like it's been quarterized almost. I don't understand that at all.

I definitely don't think that, I think that some of the people that Creasy tortures might die out before he gets the information that he needs. So yeah, that's a definite nitpick. The other one I have, I think it's, little hard to follow in the last hour

even as somebody who's seen this movie 25 times how we get from point A to point B to point C with how he's getting information and even like when he goes to see Mickey Roark's character and he's dead and just that's a deleted scene Mark Anthony chops off his

head with a sword. Yeah, he kind of need that one, right? Yeah. But I just think there's a lot going on and not somebody to kind of help walk us through it. His ability to immediately track down the secretive, deeply protected crime gang

within minutes of getting out of the intensive care unit is pretty impressive. But then again, he is... He is crazy. He's painting his masterpiece. What else you have from picking it? So, like, Mariana, the journalist, just throws the weight of the press behind this vigilante mission. Like, her editor's not like, hey, how come here and just keep

looking up these bank records and license plates? Is that going into a story or something like that? And she's like, no, no, no. I'm going to do this guy John who's going to blow some people up from the ass. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one because I was thinking it was a borderline picking it for me. She's just shot in the head like 10 minutes in the movie.

Yeah, but it's also just like she quickly is just like, I'm all in on this vigilante mission. I mean, I know she gets to print pictures of the voice at one point. But yeah. She's like, I'm all in on this vigilant. I'm dead now. Damn. I thought I was going to win the Mexican Pulitzer. and now my head is

sideways. Craig, you have any picking nets? Yeah, I had one. Why does Roda Mitchell go on these business trips with Mark Anthony amid this kidnapping pandemic? She's like, I'll leave my daughter

to fly to Detroit with my husband. Yeah, great one. Craig's really stepping it up. It's a great picking net. She's the mother. Why does she need to go on this business trip? We have to have a bodyguard for our daughter. Hey, you're going to Vegas?

There's a kidnapping every 60 minutes. She's like, I gotta go. I love how you're suddenly trying to make me jealous by like, go to Craig. Because Craig keeps agreeing with me. Craig, great point. She's like, you're sharp. You go to Monaco? I'm in.

What are we going to do with our daughter? That drunk, creasy, smoke, crazy spot. Yeah, that guy we caught chambering bullets and drinking Jack Daniels is going to watch her. Who let the bird go the first day he came in? You're free. Comes back. They come back from vacation four days later and she's now a world-class swimmer. Yeah.

She just swam her 9-9, the 100. She did? Yeah. Sequel, Prequel, Prestige TV, All Blackcast are Untouchable. Definitely would take prequel. I mean, obviously, Denzel's a little old, but walking and Denzel gallivanting through the 80s and 90s of counterterrorism would be awesome. Listen, you mentioned the remake possibilities before. This would be an incredible prestige TV.

If Amazon and one of those were like, we're redoing man on fire, we're blowing it out. How many episodes, though, would you be able to handle of the preamble of, like, him and Pete is just getting to know each other? Four hours? You'd really have to have a good actress. Yeah. I think crucial point we already made. Like, if that actress isn't good, those scenes are brutal. Yeah.

Yeah. You have to, like, crush those. Oh, this is going to be interesting. Better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Catherine Hodge, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh. Or Philip Baker Hall. We don't get a lot of Treo love in this category. No. But man, he could have been involved in this movie.

Sure. I would like to see Wayne Jenkins in the Rayburn role, though. Oh. God damn, Creasy! Didn't know you're about to paint your masterpiece! I didn't know death was your art! Oh, man. Great stuff.

Just want Oscar who gets it. I mean, it would be Denzel. I would give it to Dakota Fannie. For supporting actress. I looked up the best support. actress for us that year. Kate Blanchett won for The Aviator is Catherine Hepburn, which is a weird Oscar.

I think it'll all even out. It's like MVP's where it's, you know, Jordan ended up winning, well, you should have went eight. I think he won six. But there's one year you don't get it, and then you got one later. I won't be telling my grandkids about Kate Blanchett as Catherine Hepburn,

but she should have two Oscars and she'll have three after TAR. The other ones are Laura Linney for Kinsey. Sophie Akinado for Hotel Rwanda She's actually getting that Natalie Portman and Closer That's fucking weird Yeah

And then Virginia Madsen and Sideways Who's great as Maya So you replace Portman with Fanning? I don't I didn't even remember Kinsey Oh yeah I don't want to I don't want to down Laura Linnae Who we love

That's what my wife calls her It's Laura Linney But my wife's like I love Laura Linnae I'm like you mean Laura Linney? Did your wife have like malapropisms or they just can't get names right?

Yeah. It's like it's not Laura Linnae. It's Laura Linney. She's one of the best actions we have. I can't believe you're also correcting people. But that one, it's like Laura Linney. Come on. But yeah, I would get rid of that Natalie Portman closer.

What a fucking weird. How is she nominated for an Oscar for Closer? I kind of, I got it meant I can't remember closer at all. Is that the one where it's like Clive Owens in that? Yeah. And it's like stripper? And it was like that. that Damien Rice song,

I can't take my eyes off you. Remember that song? Yes. Yeah, I would give her that one. Probably in answerable questions. Did John Wick rip off this movie blatantly or just peripherally? I think the way that he carries himself,

the damaged goods ex-assassan wants to be retired, just kind of like that vibe. Keanu very much has some creasy vibes. to him. Obviously, they have a different kind of fantasy imagination of the world he exists. Craig, this one's for you.

Does Devante Adams rip off this movie? Devante Adams does this thing on third down catches where he does the Denzel Man on Fire walking away from the car walk after the catch. It doesn't celebrate. He catches. He did it to the Chargers yesterday. He had this one-handed catch on Third Down and

fucking Man on Fire walked it back to the huddle. where he just doesn't react and just does this then don't walk back. I'm like, is this a man on fire tribute? What is this? To really sell it,

he needs to try and shove the football up the cornerback's ass as he's walking. He basically was doing that yesterday against chargers. Why wouldn't Creasy have figured out a way to just kill everyone at the end? He made a deal,

but you're making deal with fucking scumbags. I think he is dying. You think he knows he's dying? Yeah, I think he has tried to TB12 method those gunshot wounds for a while and then straight up takes a shot right to the chest

at that one point in the was in the apartment. Yeah, the brother. So I think he knows that his clock is ticking out. The TB12 method is almonds and just bleed out. Yeah. Bourbon If anybody I know gets shot, I'm just going to be like

it's fine, just bleed it out. The more it bleat the better it is. Yeah, it'll be great. You have any in answerable questions? How many fingers do you think you could lose before you told the truth? Oh, I would be like, I'd immediately tell the truth. Yeah. Like, you're going to take one of my fingers?

What do you want to know? Chris lives here. Chris Ryan, here's his address. You need a social? The fingers, I never know, like, what the actor is supposed to do in that situation, because I would just think that would be the most pain. Well, and then he's cauterizing it with the cigarette lighter. Yeah, you see, the actor's just, it's like, how loud do you scream when that's happening,

but not make it seem like a self-parody. Best double-feature choice of this movie. I had flight. But you could also talk to me in a proof of life. Damage Denzel. I like it. A movie that both of us really like and might end up on the re-watchables at some point,

even though it's a movie about an alcoholic, crazy pilot. I love flight. I love flight. Incredible Kelly Riley performance. Incredible Goodman. Yeah? Yeah, Kelly Riley.

Sean's girl. I would pair this with proof of life. Okay. The Andy and Red Zawatna Award for what happened the next day. So do you think PETA dedicates her life to becoming an Olympic swimmer in honor of Creasy? Oh, great question. Or just being 5'4 kind of curtail her trajectory. I think she at least competes at a really high level in high school.

Yeah. It's of whatever academy she goes to. Do you think she loses some of her youthful effervescence? I think she's probably a little scar. from the three weeks in the kidnapper day. Yeah, and then watching her best friend get abducted for her in exchange for her, yeah. And then finding out that her dad killed himself because he sold her into it. Hey, where's dad?

I want to see him. Is the dog still around? Yeah, it's the dog. That one's got that. The nanny's still here? Yeah. Got the nanny. Hey, what's that chalk outline in the living room with the one empty bullet case next to it?

Right in front of the golf simulator. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? You can't say the rocket launcher. I sent you the varsity jacket that Denzel wears for the last half of it. But if I had to choose, I think it would be his entire rave ensemble. Oh. I have a... John Creasy had a rape.

I think the chain would actually be... Now I'm trying to think that's at that prop store. Yeah. where you can see what the real props go for. So like the Shawshank Bible went for like 400. Basically, they took our category and it's not a real life thing. I'm not saying we created it,

but it's simultaneously. And the Shawshank Bible went for $430,000, which seems high. It is a bit high, but it's got the cutout for the hammer. It's got, it's the Bible. Yeah. So I was trying to think.

It's not the original Bible. It's not the original Bible. It's a shawshank Bible. But I was trying to think, like, if that was a reasonable price and I'd bought that. Right? Uh-huh.

And then you came over. And I was like, Chris, I got to show you something. I got the Shawshank Bible. And you hold it. You'd be like, whoa, the Shoshank Bible. Yeah, that's it. And then you give it back to me. That's cool, man.

I know. It's like, you can't even really read any chapters and verses in there. Oh, look, that's where the hammer went. Yeah, that's where I went. And look at the top is where he wrote. Like, ultimately, what do you do with it? You're just, it's, I don't know. And there are verses that I could just show up with a pair of

aviators on it, I could be like, these are Al Pacino's aviators and cruising. Steve Forbes, Game Ward, John Forbes. So I'd take the chain. Okay. I think that's good. It's an important part of the movie. The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. For me, it's don't arrange your own child's kidnapping.

I learned that before I saw this movie before I had kids, and I just like, just point blank never going to have my own kids kidnapped. Yeah. I would say if your lawyer tells you that your wife is a sweet, piece of ass, get a different lawyer. That was like a real red flag is when Mickey works like, yeah, your wife, great ass. We didn't really talk about Mickey enough in this movie. Yeah.

Were you pro-Micky or anti-Micky? I'm very pro-Micky, but I think even Mickey could have done more with that part. I would have, I would have taken more of the Jordan Caliphis part. Yeah. And less of the Giancarlo Giannini part. Oh, interesting. Like, I just think he's very cool, but it's also weird how they're like, they have to like explain why this Italian guy is in the movie

that's what Mickey looks like now Mickey disfigured himself the most out of I think any handsome person yeah you're probably right he also has had his face beaten to a pulp right? Yeah I think that was part of it who won the movie

that's the Washington you're going to say Dakota Fannie? No can we do the Tony Scott case? Yeah sure this is probably the best example I would see the thing is that we just did this and we did this with enemy of the state

I think we were like this is the most stylish she ever got while still hanging on to like clinging to a plot of a movie but this is my favorite this is probably my favorite hallucinatory Tony Scott movie for me it's Denzel

I don't think that's a hot take it's my favorite Denzel movie I really love Dakota fanning and I really love Tony Scott and I think Watkins's great and it's a good four top there. Yeah. Those four.

Craig, what are your final thoughts? If you, when talking about how good somebody was in an acting role, if you think about how easily you could replace that actor with a different actor and not lose much, I think you could argue that Dakota Fanning's performance is like a top five performance of the 21st century. Now you've won me back. Like, grab, you. You could replace Jennifer Lawrence with name your other actress in her 30s. And like, the movie would be okay.

It could still stand up and survive. Bray Larson and Rooms. Yeah, if Brie Larson is in Silver Lange's Playbook, it's probably pretty good. There is probably like one other child actor on the planet that we have, doesn't even know exists. That could probably do it to Dakota Favit. Well, I think that the problem, the thing with child acting is like when it's good, it's almost like supernatural. Yeah. You know, like, because like there's just so much bad child acting where you're like, I can't believe I've just sit through this kid.

Yeah. But this is so good that your mind is born. It's stunning. Why isn't there an Oscar for child acting? You know, people have talked about that because there's been years. Well, I think Sean and I did something once a couple years ago about it. They added Oscar categories to make it. Like, it would obviously be best comedy.

Sure. Yeah. But there should be like an under 12 Oscar or something. I think there should. I actually, because it's a different. Like Jacob Tremblay in Room. Like, that kid was incredible. Yeah.

Like, nobody doesn't go anywhere. How many, is there ever been a kid who's won an Oscar as a child and then wound up having a great career? Well, who's the youngest person to ever win an Oscar? More like Anna Pac-Wan won for the piano, right? Did Haley Joel Osmond? He just got nominated. He got nominated. He got nominated. Tatea Mo'Neal.

Yeah. The problem is, especially with the... It's like if you're a nine-year-old actor who wins an Oscar, do you turn out to be Al Pacino? Probably not. No, but we've had cases like Christian Bale. I was in a... Yeah, River Phoenix was a great child actor and became like a great actor

Slater. Ethan Hawke. The girl in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Caruso. That girl was really good. She's in the Fableman's too. Which girl? You know her?

The girl in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood who acts... Oh, Julia Butters. Yeah, she's good. She's great. Yeah, I'm with Craig. I think it's an amazing performance because she never feels like she's acting

and she really connects with Denzel. Like the most emotional point of the movie to me is like when she won the swim meet and jumped into his arms. I was like, that's where I peaked emotionally in the film. I know. I get really choked up at the end. I don't really get choked up when I watch movies that I've seen before,

but the ending really gets me when she asks. Denzel's like crying and all of it feels really real. Yeah, it's very sweet. Great movie. Denzel is like a coach mentor, teacher. That's my favorite Denzel. Remember the Titans? It's a dry run for Remember the Titans.

Yeah. Well, he kind of does that in training day too, right? Yeah. You're right. Like, Denzel just should have been a coach. Oh, he's the best coach ever. Like, he should have for one year, Ben, and like I'm just going to be the basketball coach at Harvard Westlake for one year.

Yeah. Like, do they lose a game? Like, if they were just like, Denzel, why don't you come be special teams coordinator for the Colorado Buffalo? Just like do what just Saturday does. Just kind of be a culture guy. Yeah. You need to run X's and O's. Yeah.

Just give speeches. We got to be tougher than them. That's just all he does. Trained and untrained. That would have been amazing. All right. This podcast was produced by Craig Horlbeck. Next week, we're doing yet another one of my favorite movies of all time.

Chris Ryan, thank you. Thank you.