The Rewatchables - ‘Manchester by the Sea’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey revisit Kenneth Lonergan’s 2016 drama ‘Manchester by the Sea,’ starring Casey Affleck, Lucas Hedges, and Michelle Williams. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the watch with Chris Ryan. How's that going? Manchester by the sea of prestige television, you know? A lot of the regime talk? No. What's going on in the torture cell this week? We've been doing a body problem and showgun.

When you say it's the Manchester, like two sad dudes from the East Coast crying into the microphone together? That's right. Yeah, calling each other fucking pinheads. Sean Fantasy? Still doing the big picture? Still going. Still rooting for the Jets?

Yeah, we're back. Speaking of Manchester. You're back. We've never been brought back. Tyron Smith? Yeah, Brock Fowler, sure. We're doing great. Craig Horlebeck's going to be in Detroit next week? End of April. End of April?

Yeah, day before the draft. What week is it right now? It's the end of March currently. Craig's moving to Detroit. April 24th NFL draft show. That's right. The draft, my life revolves around that and you want rock bottom movies.

I haven't decided it. There's a lot of J.J. McCarthy buzz that's really messed with my head. That's a trade now. I think after you said there are two places J.J. McCarthy can't go. One of them is Boston. it was just, that's fucking, it's a wrap. Yeah. I'll say he's definitely going to go there.

Going to be JJ by the sea. Yeah. So we're doing a theme month and we're starting at a week early. Normally we do theme months at the beginning of a month, but we're just shoehorning this one right into April. It is Manchester by the sea. It is the lead of rock bottom month. I forget who came up with this.

Who came up with the CR? I think it was just in a riff? Was it during the Internal Affairs pot? it was something we were riffing with Van. About prison month, rock bottom month. Yeah.

And then I don't know what happened, but now we're doing it. And this is the ultimate rock bottom movie. Manchester by the sea is next. Lee. Your brother has provided for your nephew's upkeep. I don't understand. The idea was that you would relocate.

To where? Well, if you look. You can always come up weekends. Do you want to be his guardian? Well, he doesn't want to be my guardian. We're trying to lose some kids at this point. How's Patrick doing? I'm not moving to Boston.

I got two girlfriends and I'm in a band. You're a janitor. What do you care where you live? Can I get you anything, Uncle Lee? Manchester by the Sea. Read it R. All right, Manchester by the Sea came out. First year we were doing The Ringer.

An awesome movie year? Yeah. Lala Land, Moonlight, and this. I think either one of those could have won in other years and probably did some more Oscar stuff. Sean's going to hate that I did this, but I made a list of best 21st century movies that didn't win best picture.

Okay. But also have some sort of pop culture kind of tale. Yeah. Broke back. There will be blood, the Dark Night, Social Network, Wolf of Wall Street, La La Land, Manchester by the Sea, get out once upon a time in Hollywood. Feels like the right kind of list. Those are really good picks.

One or two left. Make the argument that those are like the best movies of the century. Yeah, I was looking because some people, especially after the first two decades, did the 21st century list. Now we're going to head toward the quarter of the century. I'm sure there's going to be some more list for that. And Manchester by the sea will be on it. Now the question is, why is this on the rewatchables?

I think the thing we want to do with this is pick rewatchable movies. It's obviously not rewatchable like Anchorman. But there's a difference between a movie like this and a movie like Million Dollar Baby that I see once that I never want to see again. This movie has been on cable and I'm like, man, I never wanted to see that movie again. But goddamn, this is a movie.

a good movie and you start getting sucked into scenes. Isn't that a typical rewatching? Yeah, but it's not because of like the floor is really low. There is no floor. You're in hell. Yeah. But you know what? This movie's pretty fucking funny. And all the stuff

between Patrick and Lee and like you need a fucking spaceship to get there in 90 minutes. Like all the banter. Like there's a lot of levity in this movie. And I think that it has these qualities that aren't dissimilar from like why we like Goodwill Hunting,

why we like some of these like human dramas specifically to come out of the the Damon Affleck axis. That kind of, they're there. It's just that you're also going to be confronted

with the most harrowing moments you could possibly imagine for yourself. I think there's a cinematic reason to revisit it too because the movie is so emotionally overwhelming that when you see it for the first time,

you feel pulverous. right? It's like so powerful and so sad and so deep. But your instinct is to be like, I never want to watch that again, right? I don't want to be put in a position to feel that badly. But if you give it another try, you'll one, you'll definitely hear that at humor. But just as a, as a filmmaker, Lonergan is really interesting and really clever and does a lot of things that I definitely did not pick up on the first time. I probably had some preconceived notions about the playwright turned filmmaker and like not necessarily things. thinking that they're as great visually as I would want them to be.

Totally wrong about that watching it this time around. Also, I mean, a lot of the best rewatchable's movies are just about movies with great performances. And this movie has, like, nine great performances. Everybody who's in this movie is at their best. This is the best they've ever been. So I feel like just going back to see Lucas Hedges at the beginning, Michelle Williams, right at her peak. Casey Affleck, never better. Kyle Chandler dealing, yeah.

Coach Taylor. Gretchen Mall Redemption Arc. That's right. She's back. Really, really good in this. Would you do that Oscar over again on a redo? Moonlight ended up winning. We thought La La Land winded one for five minutes.

And I wonder like 20 years from now which one of those three has the biggest tale. Because sometimes it might take two decades for us to even figure that out. I think Moonlight is now going to be recognized as the movie that led to this radical change in what the Best Picture winner is. The Best Picture winner, I think I might have written this

the night that it happened on The Ringer. But there had basically never been a movie like that that I won best picture before. So I think even just setting aside how great that movie is, just on that, it's going to remain impactful. But Manchester by the sea, it's like kind of a perfect fourth place finisher in the Oscars because it's like the movie that a lot of people have the biggest emotional relationship to. Lala End is great. It was never my favorite. It's kind of my least favorite of the Chazelle movies, honestly. Yeah.

It was a big swing. Yeah. And it was really interesting and fun to watch. I feel this same way about Moonland. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to play out. But three classics, we always talk about, oh, man, another crappy movie here. That was a really, really, really great movie here.

I think that also, like, this film is an interesting, was this the first Amazon film? Was this the first? Yeah, they acquired it out of Sundance, yeah. They bought it for $10 million and it made way more. It's steadily been available on Amazon for, since it came out, basically, is it's like one of those Netflix things where it's like, oh, that movie's always looking at me, like, in the corner of, like, recommended movies on my streaming service. That and I think, ironically, there's been some memes to come out of this movie that have made it like kind of extend its lifespan a little bit, although very darkly. And yeah, I think it has legs. Grief is a concept that's been in a bunch of great movies and I don't think maybe ever nailed as hard as it is in this one.

Lonnigan, he's going for the theme of basically how do you keep going if something's so horrible, happens to you that there's no coming back. What's your life like five years later? What's your life like seven years later? How do you come back from the uncombackable? Yeah. So he was saying he's had a couple quotes when the movie came out. You can't get through life without something happening to you that you can't stand. And there's nothing wrong with putting that in a story. And then he said, some people can't get over something major that's happening to them at all. So why can't they have a movie too? It's an interesting way to think about it. What other movies are like this where all three of his movies are like that. I mean, it's the core theme of his movies. You know, like, you can count on me and Margaret and this movie are all about something absolutely awful and, and mortal happening to someone and them trying to figure out how to keep going. Like, and you can count on me, it's a brother and a sister who lose their parents at a very young age. And the movie, fast forward's 30 years in the future. And it's just like, we're not over this. Yeah, we're not, we're not ready to cope with what happened to us. I mean, Margaret, it's just a young,

woman watching a woman get hit by a bus and feeling like she was participating somehow in this accident that she witnessed and then her inability to kind of get over what she saw transpire. And this movie is the same thing. I mean, this movie is maybe the worst thing that can happen to a person? Like in the rewatchable's history, like, is there a worst thing that has happened to a character? I agree. But he just seems fascinated by that and I think that those are like the highest dramatic stakes. It's this and then it's Christian Harrelis not being able to get reunited with Ashley Judd, I think.

That's a big one, yeah. Pulling away. Asked for directions. You need to get some bread. That's the true heartbreak. So he's directed three movies, and all three of them are movies like you stumble out of the theater at the end of it. You can count on me.

It's been on the rewatchable's list for a while because it's basically the Ruffalo breakout. Yeah. And it's Laura Linney just establishing herself as one of the signature actors of the last, I don't know, 25 years. So his movies tend to take a long time to write and for them to come out. with Margaret obviously went through post-production hell with like whether it was his cut or not

and he finally got his version out. But there's something that happens with that context where like the films have like they've been marinating for a while. Like even this, the story of the making of this movie where it's basically an idea

that Krasinski and Damon bring to him and then he takes like according to Damon six years before it comes out. He's working on this. He's tinkering it and I think that's the other thing

what makes it a rewatchable. is when you go back and watch this film, for his lived in and human and almost like, not cinema, Verte, but like it feels very much like real life. Every single line actually has something to do with the major themes of the film. You know, like almost every single throwaway

seems to actually, you can chart how it comes back to what's this movie about. Why is this person saying this? And you can tell that even though it was a compressed shooting schedule and it was probably very difficult, it was like everything about this movie has been thought through and that gives it an extra weight

I think beyond even what happens in the film Was it on your radar? Like I don't remember talking with you guys about this movie when it came out even though we were together every day Like I don't know I think I just saw it in the theaters Or maybe I went to a screening

Was killed was like crushed by it And then I wasn't like Hey you gotta see Manchester by the C bill It'll really ruin your weekend Did you see in the theaters? I saw in the theater I really liked, you can count on me for some reason that became a rewatchable for me

even though it's not like, doesn't have a lot of the typical DNA and just was really interested in that director, but also the fact that Damon was so passionate about it and then stepping on casting what-ifs was supposed to be the lead and then did the Martian instead and had this sliding doors moment with it that, and we'll talk about that later about what is this movie with Damon. So it was on my radar, plus Manchester by the sea,

like, you know, North Shore. It's between Beverly and Gloucester. Just an interesting place to set a movie. And I always like Casey Affleck. He had, you know, going through his runs, like he's the 90s kid actor. He's in to die for Goodwill Hunting. He has that little run, but we don't really think anything's going to happen.

Then he's in all the oceans, 11, 12, 13. And he just seems like he's going to be Ben Affleck's brother, who's kind of fun to have in a movie. And then in 07 puts out Gone Baby Gone and the assassination of Jesse James, which Chris Ryan has been pushing for for a rewatchable for three years. I think Gone and Gone is almost too rock bottom for you. Yeah, I mean, or maybe it'll turn up in rock bottom on. Who knows?

It is on the training wheels for Manchester by the seat. Yeah. So he's got that and we're all going, oh, this guy's going to be a real guy now. And then it kind of goes sideways again. He does that weird walking Phoenix movie. A lot of personal stuff comes out of that. Killer inside. Yeah, he's got some personal stuff that we'll talk about later.

All of a sudden he's in like Tower Heist. and it seemed like he'd kind of missed his moment. And then Manchester gives, you know, one of the best actor performances, I think, of the decade. And whether Damon could have done it, I think is a really, really interesting debate because you could look big picture at Damon and say, he never had a movie like this.

Like, Goodwell Hunting was probably the closest, but he never had his best actor movie. The Martian might have been... I think Stowater was, like, kind of his version of making Manchester in some ways. Like, it was almost like the makeup movie. Right. Yeah.

where that's like a really withdrawn character that's kind of like emotionally reserved. I'm a working class guy who's trying to like, I can't quite articulate. I'm not going to have like these big speeches or anything like that. Everything has to be through action and gesture and what I don't say.

And I love that movie, but I mean, I know it kind of had mixed reviews. Damon is just such a charisma machine. It's so hard, you know? Like on screen, you're just waiting for him to crack a joke or be the most charming guy

or even when he's playing like a doofus in the oceans movies. He's still like you're magnetized to him. him and Lee is trying to disappear, you know, like he's trying to be invisible in the world. So it's hard to imagine. I mean, we can talk about it more later, but it is hard to imagine. But it was, you're right, that he was really vocal about the movie for a long time, Damon. And I know it originated with him in Krasinski talking, but that he was, I guess he's been friends with Lonergan for a really long time. He believed in him, like, about as much as a famous actor could believe in a director.

Like, and Lonergan's going through money problems. And Damon's just like, we came up with this idea, you got to do it. gave him three years to work on it. Didn't David also just like, what can I do to fund Margaret? Right. I mean, he's in it and he pushed hard because when it was, I mean, that, it's a weird thing too with Lonergan because, so he shot Margaret in 2005. It goes through six years of, you know, lawsuit issues.

And then kind of ruins his life. I mean, it's a little like what we talked about Paul Brickman with Burski Business, where he had such a traumatic experience. He almost couldn't bounce back. And he talks about Manchester by the sea. And like there, I think a lot of people were asking him. questions on the promo run where it's like, so how fucked up was this one? Yeah. And he's like, honestly, great. I knew that Matt Damon wanted me to write this movie and wasn't going to start

noting it and changing all of my words and changing what the movie was about. And we made it in 30 days and I got to cut it. You know, like it doesn't feel like this was ever in turmoil like that. I was reading an interview with him about the 20th anniversary of You Can Count on Me that was really interesting. And he talked about how on You Can Count on Me, which is a beautiful and really interesting movie, but is very unorthodox, like you were saying, and has like a very unorthodox ending and just feels way more like a 70s movie.

Yeah. And he like, he had final cut and then a new production company came in and they were like, you can't have final cut if you want this money from us. So he got Martin Scorsese to come on as an executive producer. This is before Martin Scorsese did this all the time.

And he was like, I'm going to bring Scorsese in, but he gets final cut. And he did that to protect himself. Yeah. So it's ironic. that the guy who was savvy enough after years as a playwright to bring in a powerful person

to protect him still got caught up in this bullshit on Margaret and that clearly... Is Margaret Miramax? I don't remember which studio it was. But there was one particular producer who was the one who was really

up against him in this. And it wasn't Harvey Weinstein. I think it's Dan Gilbert's brother. I think it was. It was Dan Gilbert's brother. And that took out like 11 years of movies for him. Yeah.

I mean, he put out one movie between, you can count on me and Manchester by the sea, and they're basically two decades apart. So it's a crazy one-ifs. It's a recurring theme of this podcast where you just wonder

what the fuck happened to entire decades of careers. Yeah. These movies are hard to get on the ground, man. Yeah. What was it? Like seven years? Yeah, they did another ad-euvre.

He was the hottest director in Hollywood for four months. It's really crazy. It's almost like, you know, I actually, I'll wait until we go to casting what ifs because I have some questions about that. Who is Lonnergan, if you're looking at the last 50 years?

Who is he? Who's swimming in his pool? Well, in terms of going from stage to screen, you could go with Mamet or Tom Stoppard, somebody like that. And Minut is definitely a big influence on him. And Lonergan does do some rewrite work and some Hollywood stuff. The person that's most familiar to me is Alexander Payne, where it's like writer-director,

underrated as a filmmaker, very celebrated as a writer. Alexander Payne also does a lot of script work, to script doctoring Lonergan's like a legendary script doctor. So you'd think that's how he is making money is the script doctor stuff, the year-to-year. Yeah, yeah. I think he's the guy who's like,

you have 30 days to fix this movie and write good jokes. And that's something that he's really good at. Because even his really, really sad movies are pretty funny. Yeah. Well, he's also, I just don't have a feel for him because he's also the guy who's like,

yeah, I'm going to put myself in this as the guy who sarcastically says, hey, nice parenting. He has a big part in, you can count on me, he plays the priest, you know, and he's in that movie a lot. And he's not a bad actor. He's in Margaret?

He must have a camera. cameo of some kind. I didn't rewatch Margaret before this. We're the movie nerds with Margaret right now. It's that perfect thing where because it was lost for so long and people were dying to see it, as soon as it came out, people were like masterpiece. You have to like protect the artist and protect it. I remember really, really loving it when I saw it.

But it is much more unusual and harder to penetrate than the two movies in between. You a fan, Sear? Yeah, but similar to what Sean was saying, I remember, did you have the DVD of the extended cut? and it started getting passed around. So I remember watching his copy, and it was like, we gotta love this. Because this is like a secret movie that we got, and we have to like really...

But now the extended cut, you can get it. Yeah, you can get it now. You just couldn't see it for a long, long time. It's a beautiful movie, but it is a bit more like emotionally abstract, I think, than like Manchester Red the Sea, which is, it's like a very direct clear American tragedy. This movie I saw as Michelle Williams in it,

who completed her trifecto. of damaged spouses in movies, starting with Brokeback, going to Blue Valentine, and then Manchester. It's really the trifecta CR. She may have less screen time in this movie than Hopkins does in Silence of the LAMS.

She does. She's 12 minutes. As big of an impact. You know, like, is, I would argue up there with the greatest one-scene performances we've certainly ever talked about. I'm not getting into all time,

but just like, and she's so good the night of the fire, too, like when she's just Randy and is like, you fucking pinheads gotta, everybody's gotta go home. Like she's so, like one scene, you're like, I know who this person is. And she's so different after it, you know? It's funny that she came back for more, though, after that double bill that you're talking about.

And she was like, I'm gonna play one more sad wife. One more time. I got one more sad wife in me. Five Oscar nominations for her, three best and two supporting. Still hasn't won. I think she would have won if she went in supporting

the year the Fableman's coming. came out. Yeah, I think so. Also, the category was loaded this year because she was going against Vio Davis and Fences for best supporting this year.

She was not going to win that one. Lonergan won for original screenplay and beat Lala Land. And then Affleck won for Best Actor, which he was favored. He was winning all the awards.

He won everything. There was some, some stuff percolating about him that started to overshadow. And then really the next year at the Oscars when he was supposed to present. That was Me Too was in full effect by then

and then he ended up bowing out. And that became a little piece of the legacy of this movie that he was starting to go through stuff off the screen instead of this just being his moment. His career's never, you know, from a movie standpoint,

his career is not recovered from that. Yeah, I think he's making a movie with Damon now for Apple. I mean, he was in Oppenheimer. And he's one of the best parts of Oppenheimer. So he's not. like been excommunicated or anything like that, but you're right. You'd think after a performance like this and a win like that, under normal circumstances, you would go on to be doing bigger and bigger

things. And he was in the wilderness a little bit. Got nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, best supporting actor, and best supporting actress. Lucas Hedges, who was in this and then mid-90s, one of my son's favorite movies. And it's been doing stage the last couple years, but he's... I saw him in a theater version of Brookback Mountain in London. Right. Yeah. So he was one of those up as we headed into the 2020s. I think he's, he would have been on that like Shalamae list right of like who are going to be the biggest

up and coming actors in their 20s of the 2020s but it's saying I don't not positive he wants it he apparently is in this movie Shirley that came out on Netflix on Friday about Shirley Chisholm but that's the first movie he's made in five years

so he's up to other stuff right now you have Lucas Hedges thoughts or should we move on I when he was seeing him in broke back. I was like, this guy can have it whenever he wants it, but obviously he just is not doing it right now. Yeah. We have a casting what ifs with him. That's a, that's pretty good. So, $9 million budget made $79 million. Amazon paid $10. And all the research on this movie was like they were scrapping it together, just trying to get through the shoot. There's a thing we'll talk about later. This is other ending that they wanted that they couldn't get done. And then ironically,

the movie ended up making nine times as much as they thought. Yeah. I love the stories about the making of this movie where it's like very old school. Like they're basically in a race to finish it before winter's over. Because like if winter is over in Massachusetts, it's a completely different place. Yeah. So they have to like get through the shoot of the winter stuff before spring comes. It's just very like, that's how they used to have to make movies.

Right. Well, there's a really interesting thing though. Like I wrote a story about independent movies. movies when this movie came out in early 2017 when the Oscar race was starting to happen. Because things were starting to flip at the streamers. This was right when Amazon and Netflix really came in. And I talked to Chris Moore, who's one of the producers of this show, who's longtime Affleck and Damon producer.

And he said, there's a window right now where they're all trying to fill up, but at some point Amazon will have enough titles and all they'll care about are the big ones that are coming up. And if you're a subscriber of Prime, which is what they care about, do you care if they have 50,000 titles or 6 million? As long as you get what you want out of the 50,000, what are you going to do with the other 5 million titles, right? They're just going to sit there. So, like, even at this time, those guys were like, let's just try to get this in while we can.

You know, like, while there's a moment to get a movie like this made, let's just try to get a made. And you can argue that they hit them up again for error, where they're just like, we have this new model. Let's see if anybody will fund it. Right. And they did that with error where it was like, you know, we want to, everybody here has equity in the movie. Well, sometimes try to shy away from movies that came out in the last 10 years because I think sometimes you need some distance. we need some research. We need some half-ass research to come out

that we don't know whether we believe or not. And a lot of times you just kind of need to marinate with the movie and that can change the more times it pops on, the more times some of the actors or the directors that are involved in the movie, their lives might change. And then it feels like after like, I know, 12, 15 years,

feels like about a short enough time. This one feels different. This feels like there was so much written about it and discussed when it came out. it's a certain type of movie that's definitely the beginning of some sort of era and it's also

I think has two of the saddest scenes I've ever seen in a movie and it's one of those things where you're just like you almost can't function after you... So I watched this on a plane last night

and you know what they say about like the oxygen makes it like and I was a fucking mess like an absolute embarrassment there's a guy reading Dune next to me and he just kept looking over at me because he's like, I can't beat it.

I'm like, you fucking can't beat it. Don't you fucking... I was thinking about this when you're asking about other movies that are like this. You know, like we did ordinary people, right? That's a really sad movie. It's a really tragic movie in some ways. But it's kind of the inverse of movies like that because I feel like all the Lonergan movies, they don't actually ever really have the conversation about what's happened.

Right? They're like about how in real life, you don't sit down with your brother or your wife and say, like... So, on Tuesday, my mom died. And then on Wednesday, I woke up and I was in pain. You know, like, life doesn't work that way. Like, everything is kind of understood in the casual way we go about our lives. This is one of the few movies where, like, Lee obviously feels everything.

Yeah. But he is not comfortable with and probably was not raised to be able to talk about everything. So, like, all the time when you're watching this movie, with these two rare exceptions, I think, that you're talking about. He kind of, like, cuts out of the scene before the conversation starts to happen. Yeah. You know? Or, like, he moves on. to something with a totally different energy,

like, you know, even in the moment when that confrontation between Michelle Williams' character and Casey Affleck's character at the end of the movie, which is like, that's one of the movie scenes of the 21st century. It's so powerful. It goes right to him getting a bar fight. It's just immediately like... Great bar fight. Get your energy out.

You're looking at me? So, you know, like, all that stuff is purposeful, too. Like, it's all correlated and connected action. I think that's what Lonergan cares about is there's baggage in the... room, but the characters don't know how to address it. And they're just kind of stumbling around it and trying to talk about it. But they're just not actually saying what they need to say about it.

It's weird. I feel like there are some rewatchable movies that are super sad that, in a way, is kind of the appeal of the movie. Sometimes you want to be in a certain mood. My wife's definitely like that with certain things. She's like, you know, Gray's Anatomy used to play. I mean, that's a dumb TV show that was really successful. But they used to play that shit. pry my eyes.

Oh, you like a love story. Something like that. You love stories a great one. You know how love story is going to end. It's not going to end well. Brian's song was a great one

from a sports movie standpoint, super early TV movie from the early 70s, but you knew halfway through Brian Piccolo's getting cancer. And it's like, all right, I'll take another ride on this sad train.

But it is a certain type. We did fucked up Family February. Yeah. And I think rock bottom buff is in that same genre. Craig, I have a question for you. Does your generation like being sad through movies?

Or is this like an older generation thing? Yeah. Does even like the idea of rock bottom month appeal to you? Not at all. No. Well, I was joking with people outside before. It's going to be hilarious. Like when this movie pops up on people as you're watchable feet,

they're going to be like, what in the hell are we doing? This is the saddest movie ever made. I'll tell you my thoughts at the end. But no, I don't like being scared in movies and I don't like being sad. I never want to go into a movie. See, I think Craig's generation is very upfront about their feelings. So it's like, here's why I'm sad. I had these things.

But our, like, especially my generation was bottled up baggage, never talking about anything. And then we had the movies was how we kind of got through our shit. Got it out. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Craig's generation is just like tweeting or. Well, the cliche is saying now. I'm really sad right now. All the people in my generation, the cliche thing would be like, the world's sad enough.

We're constantly. Like, the news is so sad. We see everything like we want to be happy. when we watch something on TV. We're not going to put something something. I think we're more of the generation where it's like we have unresolved feelings about our dead and we have to watch

fields of dreams to understand. Or Kramer versus Kramer when we did that one. It's like, this is our divorce movie. So this movie, $9 million dollar budget. That's such an interesting idea though about how we don't need our culture anymore to make us feel things because kids have been trained

to, I think about this even with Raisin' My Kid where my wife is like, tell us how you're feeling. She's like saying that too. Like, no one was like, Sean, how are you feeling when I was five years old? They were like,

go stand over there and shut up. Right. It's a lot different. Go back to hockey practice. $9 million budget made $79 million. Sadly, Raj was gone by the time this movie came out.

I don't like this movie. I'm going to say, guaranteed four stars from Rush. Basically everything he wants. This is like the, this checks 45. Story characters. This is what he wants.

Story characters, great performances. All right. We're going to take a break and then come back with, we're not necessarily calling the most rewatchable scene. We'll call it most memorable scenes for this one. That's good. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business.

And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

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sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Okay, guys, scenes that jumped out in this movie. So Lauderdin, he just creates this pace coming out of the game, right? We're with Lee and it's like, man, this guy seems sad, and he's doing janitor stuff. And then he ends up in that one lady's house. And he's like just plunging the toilet. And she's like, I'm sorry, Lee. I'm sorry.

It's so gross. He's like, it's okay. It's okay. And you're like, oh, man, this guy is fucking rock bottom. He hears her be like, do you ever have a fantasy about your hand you? I'm like, what a great movie. Then he gets in the fight with the other neighbor.

But it's the best. We're just laying the groundwork for this guy's life fucking sucks. Yeah. You know, it's my fucking tub. Yeah. That's Missy Yeager, who is like an actress who was in a lot of early Lonergan plays. He was like,

he, that's the thing, in all his movies, too. He got all these, like, all stars from him putting on plays in Broadway over the years. Patrick's hockey scene I enjoyed.

I have so many thoughts. You want to just do it now? Well, I'm saving it for a very special part. Yeah. Some good Massachusetts hockey. Yes. I like the coach.

Just that the... Great Tad Donovan. I was going to say incredible use of Tate Donovan. Rinks perfect. So great. He doesn't have a name in the credits. It's just Patrick's hockey coach. It's,

It's also not since, not until the holdovers has even used so perfectly for 1.5 scenes. We're like, holy shit, they got Tate Donna. Yeah. Right. It's also so great that the extra, this is why Laudanagan is the best, is like, Patrick goes back and the coach is like, all right, your dad died. I'm going to forget about the fighting. Right. But no more of that shit.

And you're off the team for a week to think about your feelings. Think about your dad. Yeah. He was either Coach Sullivan, Coach Murphy, or Coach Patrick. He was like one of the three. There were no other names. Fittsy. That was definitely Fitsy.

And he was, you know, he was a wing coming up playing hockey. Yeah. Had a cup of coffee with the Bruins. Yeah. The bees. I like the scene when Patrick's hanging out with his buddies and they're talking about Stad Trek and doing that. It's just fun to watch. It's a little goodwill hunting-ish.

Lee's buddies in the basement where it's just. Oh, it's just fun. I'm having fun in Lee's basement. Everybody's busting each other's balls. It's great. What could go wrong? It's a flashback scene. The moment where, you know, she comes and she reads them the riot act and he's like, I'm so sorry. And everybody's like really quiet. And then as soon as she walks away, he's like, she can't talk to us like that. My kids are sleeping. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry, Ray. I mean, you want to get these fucking pinheads out of my house, please?

Yeah, I do. I mean, I really do. She can't talk to us that way. Yeah. It's 2 o'clock in the fucking morning to get these fucking assholes dress and get in the fuck out of here. She gets mad, does the don't drink a drive thing, and then everybody leaves, and he goes to walk,

and then it immediately becomes one of the toughest scenes, I think, that's ever been filmed. Amazing, though, about that. Well, two things about it. One, he uses flashbacks, especially in the first hour, hour, 15 minutes of the movie in this very unusual way where you're like, wait a second, is this a flashback? Yeah, where, where are we in? Yeah, like, if you see Kyle Chandler, you know, it's a flashback, but like most of the time,

especially in the first 15 minutes, it's a little disorienting. Yeah. It works really well. It's really subtle. But then also, he doesn't show us, for example, him lighting up the fireplace. It's only when he tells the story, do we know that that's what happened to. So, like, everything is all about what's kept from us. You never see what she says to him.

You have to imagine that. You have to imagine that. So it allows for, like, who knows? Like, who knows? Even, like, how responsible someone is or is not for the thing that has happened. We don't totally fully understand because he's withheld all this information from us. This was a dead silent of the movie theater scene. Where, like, sometimes there's a scene when you're in a crowded movie theater

where it's just, like, you could hear somebody's foot moving. It's so quiet. You'll have to remind me, because I know you probably were seeing stuff early at this point, but there was like a real like don't tell anybody about this because you have to see it for yourself. Like this was, it wasn't really a twist, but I didn't know going in the theater

and I remember just like looking at my wife and we were both like, holy fucking shit. I had no idea. I mean, it played a Sundance. So coming out of Sundance, people were like, wow, saddest movie of all time just dropped. But beyond that, like you didn't have any details about it.

I mean, it's punishing. And then it goes to the police interview, the kind of not even an interrogation when he's like. He's trying to confess. and he's like, I didn't put the screen in the fireplace. He does that whole thing. And they're like, all right, well, you didn't commit a crime.

He leaves and he grabs the gun. And it's, it's, I think it's going to be the number one rock bottom moment we probably do out of all these rock bottom movies. I think to take your own life with a policeman's gun after that. In a PlayStation. That's about his rock bottom. Yeah. Until we do hardcore. I mean, it's just an amazingly written scene, though, where obviously he's trying to, he's trying to get locked.

stuck in until we do hardcore because by the way we are doing hardcore it's probably happening you turn it off you got to create the rock bottom scale like what is what's on the scale in the history of rewatchable

I think this is a 10 no this is a 10 there's nothing worse there's never been anything worse in a movie that I can think of he because it's one thing for the most horrible thing to happen to you

but when it's your kid That's the number one worst thing that can happen to anybody. But then it's your fault. It's like a double worse thing. I don't think it could be being. It's every parent's nightmare. Yeah. It's their deepest, darkest nightmare.

I think, like, he, there's something really interesting in the way that it's done where, like, you could imagine in a different society with a different person, if something like this happened, a parent would be held responsible for using cocaine, for maybe like a kind of gross negligence. Like, but in this community. they're like, you're free to go. We know you. You're a good guy, Lee. We were doing cocaine and they're like,

anything else? Yeah, what else? You know, like, they're writing them off the hook, basically, for the word. And he was like, you've suffered enough. It's some scratch cards.

Yeah, so it was Friday night. That's what you're saying. The, uh, there's some good Lee and Patrick scenes. They're incredible together. The scene when they're arguing about the bureau,

I can't speak, burial plot. and where the car is parked, it's just, it's the kind of stuff, like if you were saying, this movie is two hours, 20 minutes, what would you cut? I wouldn't cut anything from this movie. I agree. Every single scene and moment has a purpose.

Because you can't use heavy equipment in the historic Rosedale Cemetery. Why not? Because there are very important people who are buried there, and their descendants don't want steam shovels vibrating over their dead bodies. Why can't we just bury them someplace else?

Because that's the plot that you bought. Don't ask me why. But if you want to make some other, arrangements, you want to find someplace else to bury him, you want to talk to the mortician, and you want to call up Sacred Heart and talk to Father Martin, and find out how much that's going to cost and make all those arrangements be my guest. Otherwise, let's just leave it, okay? I'm just saying I don't like him being in a freezer. Yeah, I don't like it either, but it isn't him because he's gone. It's just his body. I'm just saying it kind of freaks me out.

Oh, God damn it, we're going to park the car. Yeah, I don't know, but I wish you'd figure it out because I'm freezing my ass off. and just watching them interact and Lee kind of needs Patrick but he's wanted to admit it to himself it's like the one person who'll talk to him yeah and I think that Patrick needs him too

you know what I had forgotten in between viewings of this movie is this is not a Lucas Hedges part in a lot of ways like in my mind like this is not like Lucas Hedges his public persona is this fucking smart ashash athlete

and playboy yeah and it's just one of the great stick men of the North Shore Right. It's such a great part for him, but he's so fucking annoying and funny in this movie. He just will never let Lee go.

Like, he's just berating him the entire time and is such a smart ass about it. The funeral scene with no dialogue and just music is pretty unbelievable. And Michelle Williams comes back, and he sees that. He does that a lot. He does that also in the fire,

scene too, where it's just Adagio and G minor. He just lets long stretches of classical music play over these really, really powerful scenes. And you're like, oh, well, he's a playwright. He must need to, like, write the words, but a lot of his movies are just visual, just music and picture. And Affleck really broke down. It was not in the script. He actually got upset as they were filming it broke down.

And Lonergan, one of the things that in the research, like, sometimes things will happen when they're filming and he'll just be like, oh, let's, I didn't realize that was going to happen. Let's keep that. And I think that's why all the actors like him. I think he's also the best writer. So he writes good lines for them too. That's definitely one reason why. Well, that leads us to the hill scene.

Lee runs into his ex-wife who's got the stroller, her friend leaves. And new category for this one. CR created it last week the Rick Dalton Award for the best fucking acting I've ever seen in my life. Does it go to both of them? I think it's to both. She's unbelievable. and the way he plays it, where he said his quote was, the challenge for him to have all these feelings

and hold it without weeping and willing to ask in your teeth to be there but also not be there. And that's what he's doing. He's like, it's okay, it's all right. He won't look at her. And she's just trying to connect to them. Like, Lee, just she really needs him to have something, and he's just dead.

Thank you for saying everything she said. You can't just die. I'm not, I'm nuts. I'm not. I'm not. Honey. And I'm, honey. I want you to be happy.

Honey, I see you walking around here. And I just want to tell you. I would want to talk to you, Randy. Please. I, I, you could have. Lee. I'm trying. I don't know what.

I don't want to torture you. You're not, you're not, you're not torture me. I just want to tell you that I was wrong. No. You understand, there's nothing. There's nothing there. There's nothing there. That's not true.

You don't understand I don't know what this is I know you understand I know you understand I've got to go I'm sorry it's such a at once like real raw scene that that is also if you take a step back and like close your eyes and listen

the dialogue is music like the way he's trying to stop her from saying what she's got to say and he's like I can't even give you like the bare minimum of what you're looking for here and it's just unbelievable like so precise. It's something we understand

but don't know which is that in the aftermath of what happened their marriage fell apart but what happened? She blamed him right, but in that scene you learned that like we didn't know that until we hear her say I said horrible things to you unforgivable. She says I should burn it.

That's so smart you know like he didn't really let us know what transpired between that. There's two scenes missing that we don't actually need. And that's one of them. Yeah. It's them fighting. Yeah. You can almost feel him writing it and cutting it. Yeah. And then, yeah, and her saying, I should burn in hell for the things I said to you, which

just as a layered piece of dialogue since their children died in a fire is an incredible line to say. Yeah. And then that imagination, which everybody who watches the movie in their mind will conjure up, what could she have said to him, is so much more powerful than if you give Michelle Williams a five minute berating him scene. That's it. It's the same thing with, I don't want to step on it if this is one of the scenes,

but when he goes to visit his mom similarly. Oh, shit. Yeah. You know, and I don't know if that's a memorable scene or not for you, but like, Gretchen Moll barely says anything in this extended three or four minute sequence. She can't even get anything out. And then the information is delivered via email from Matthew Broderk's character, basically, that she's still not well.

And we still don't totally understand, you know, she's an alcoholic, but like, what happened to her, what went on? And he was like, you know what? It doesn't even matter. Like the details don't matter. Look, if she's fucking semi-human, I'll let you see. How bad was she been? Yeah, you're right.

That scene's cut. I like that, though. I like that there's stuff that they're kind of showing us, not telling us. The Hill scene's one of the best scenes of this century for me. I don't know how long the list is. But it just, if you're just doing like, what are the single best scenes of this century, it has to be included. This is a little bit of my Stephen A. Smith. But I'm just going to say that it's kind of like when you have,

you have Led Zeppelin 4 and you're like, oh, stairway to heaven. The whole scene is stairway to heaven. But then when you listen to it a bunch, you're like, but I actually like, this song more, I kind of fell apart in the scene after the bar fight where he's at George's house. And he breaks down in George's wife's arms.

And she's just like trying to get him, get coffee into him. And he just starts crying because he's like finally, breaks. Like after that scene, he has to go get his fucking head kicked in to get in touch with that feeling. But it's incredible. Like, that scene is silent, but it's amazing. I don't want to take away from the emotional experience you had with that scene. But the scene on the hill, I've seen this movie three times now. Me too. I was sitting alone in my garage yesterday in the afternoon watching it by myself. And the scene starts, and as soon as Michelle Williams starts talking, I just started crying. Like, it was like, there was like a, like a taser attached to my body

that forced me to do it. I don't know what it is. Is it like the music? Is it her face? Is it the way that it's written? Is it that interplay, that kind of rhythm of the dialogue? But it's also because nobody else in the movie

really says what they're feeling. Yeah. Like the whole movie is just people trying to like hold it together. Patrick, the way that Patrick deals with his dad's death. Yeah. He's like he's been anticipating it. Fawzes the freezer one in the morning, the meat, all the sudden he breaks down.

He has one meltdown. Yeah. And those are the only two meltdowns in the movie. And it's actually very realistic. because he has that panic attack and then the next day he's like whatever, you know, and he gets over it because he's a teenager, right?

And he's got thick skin. But like, because she's the only person who's willing to give you, like my heart is broken, your heart is broken. Like, she's saying the things that everybody while they're watching the movie is thinking.

I don't know, it's just, it's amazing. The other taser to the heart scene is I can't beat it. Yeah, we're getting into that. I had one question on the hill scene though. How many actresses could have pulled that off? It's not a very long list.

You know what? I've been a lot of people. Merrill Street? Yeah. No question. I wonder how many... Would you have bought Anne Hathaway in that scene? No.

I love her too, and no. But there's moments where, like, I wonder if other actors watch that scene and be like, can I even have done that? You know what I mean? It's like watching an incredible... It's like, I don't think I can do that. What's crazy is she was on fucking Dawson's Creek.

Like, there's still a piece of me that can't believe this happened for Michelle Williams. She would not have been the first round draft pick from that movie. Even on that show, though, you were like, she's pretty soulful, you know? She kind of had something that the other actors didn't have, and some pretty famous people came out of that show.

But, like, when you were watching that show, like, this character is pretty strange. You don't really see a young woman, a young teenage woman on TV that is like, like this. And she did turn out to, I mean, she's like in the 99th percentile. She's really amazing. Yeah, broke back happened and that was, that's what pushed her. I can't think of five actresses who could have been on that hill and done as good of a job. Even like Jessica Lang. Yeah.

Emma Stone? She rarely does like hard straight drama like this. Could Jennifer Lawrence have done that? Like, Winter's bone, Jennifer? I know, right? I don't know. It's tough, man. She's pretty credible as a New Englander, too.

Yeah. You know, like, she gets the accent pretty good. Well, just when you thought that was the saddest scene in the movie, and then just when you thought him collapsing into his friend's wife's arms was the saddest, then we get, I can't beat it. Yeah. I can't beat it. I can't beat it.

I'm sorry. It's almost like, I think the third time I saw this movie, I think my memory of it was it was more profound. And that's what's so good about the scene is he's just like, I can't beat it. Can you imagine just to do the entire movie in four words? That's the movie. It reminds me a little bit of the ending of you can count on me

when they're sitting on the bench together. And at the very end, Markovil says, do you remember what we used to say to each other when we were kids? But then they don't say you can count on me. But that's what it means? Yeah. like, I'm not giving it to you. And this is kind of the inversion of that where it's like, this is the only thing he'll say about it.

The only thing he'll say about what happened to him is, I can't beat it. Take a break and then we'll do what's aged the best from this movie. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com and to your license plate or Vin and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust.

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Be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. What's age the best? My guy Josh Hamilton's in this. It's great to see him. Lonergan go-toe, I think, right? I think he's done some...

Yeah, he was in, I think one of the original This is Our Youth. Yeah. With Ethan Hawk? I can't remember who was in that first side. But a lot of his plays are these like three-handers about young people living in New York in the 1990s. And so he accrued this like really cool collection of people.

And then all those after this or around the time of this movie, a lot of those plays were put back on Broadway. So like this is our youth, the Waverly Gallery and lobby hero. And I saw all three of them on Broadway. And they're all amazing. Wow. So, so good. But they're so different from the movies because they're not these like tragedies. Tragedies.

Yeah. They're very, very different. Well, he also has the Bradwick relationship. because they've been friends since they were 15, which is why Broderick popped into, you can count on me, and then this movie. He, I think Broderick's mom, who was just written about an Edzwick's memoir,

very unfavorably, actually, because she really got involved in a set of glory. I had that, and I read 50 pages. Yeah, it's a really good book. But she had a lot of thoughts about glory, because apparently she's a very learned woman. Yeah. But she was taught Lonergan a lot about drama and plays,

and he always cites her in interviews as, like, a person who changed his life. I have for one stage the best Affleck as a really great dead-eyed pissed off New England drunk I have Casey's mass holery that like Getting in two bar fights

What an incredible two minutes Of Massachusetts driving Fucking come on He's like honking at the guy I know he's obviously his brother's passed away But like yeah And then just like the brief little tidbits Of sports stuff like he's watching the Isaiah

Isaiah Thomas Celtics And the bees Some bees that look, the J-bug in the mid-90s, my buddy J-bug, who was way more street-smart than I was, and there was a certain look, and we would always call it the grab the beer bottle look, where if you're like, oh, that guy's coming over

and he has that look that F-Fuck has, J-bug would just kind of mistaken to grab a beer bottle. Yeah. There's probably not a right answer. How are you doing? Good. Good. You can ask you guys, do you know me?

I don't think so. I don't think so either. I never met. No, no. No. So what the fuck you look at me for? Excuse me? So what the fuck are you looking for?

Hey, take a fucking walking. No, no, no, don't apologize. Let's ask you. Seriously. It's a certain, does Philly have that kind of dead-eyed? They're just staring through you as they're looking at you. Yeah, that's what happens when we watch the Eagles. the playoffs this past season.

Oh. It just goes dead. Amazon Studios, this basically put them on the map. And I think led to Netflix and Apple and a lot of money getting spent on movies for a few years or so I think it was positive. I don't know if all the choices were great, but at least people were spending money on screenplays and actors. It was actually a pretty weird, good little mini run because Ted Hope, long time, independent

film producer got hired to be the studio chief. And so he was basically running the studio but using his taste from like 90s Sundance cinema. Yeah. So bringing in movies like this and then somehow making $78 million or whatever it made.

It's pretty great. Leslie Barber did the score, which is really good. I have for what's age the best, having a boat. Yeah. Is it? I don't know.

I just like when I see it because I'll never have one, but I always makes me jealous that I don't have one, but I would never want one because of the upkeep. I always make that joke when people are like, why do you buy Blu-Rays?

I'm like, I don't have any other hobbies. Like, I don't have a boat. You know what I mean? My boat is my blu-rays. Right. It seems like a huge pain in the ass. And somebody who grew up on the island, it seems like a huge pain in the ass.

But when you see it in movies, it's like, how their boat looks great? Art boat's just like also like instantly depreciating assets too. Yeah, right. You got to love being out. It's like the Jeremy Grant contract. It's just immediately worth half as much as... If you get a boat name it,

you pay me, you pay it. The New England vibe in this movie. I have one more, but do you have any other what stage the best? Well, this is complicated, but like the Casey Affleck trying to shoot himself meme is definitely like kind of low-key, one of my favorites on Twitter. When Charles Holmes is like, I got to talk about X-Men 97 and it's just this meme of him grabbing the gun. Also, Patrick has a poster or like a flag for Bridge Nine Records, which is like a legendary Boston hardcore label. It's just a great touch with him and his fucking stupid. been banned.

You have anything? Sean? Gretchen Mole, redemption arc. Yeah. Emerging as one of the better character actresses of her generation.

G. Mall. She's great at this. You never doubted her. She's great. I definitely 100% did doubt her. At the rounders is probably good for her.

All right. What stage is the best the accents? I did a rating system. Casey's a 10. Yeah. It's just perfect. I mean,

it's a hometown of Van. She grew up in Massachusetts. it so he gets it. It peaks during the ping pong trash talk. That's the thing. It has to get worse when you're drunk. There won't be any tears. When you add alcohol to the accent

and the actors that understand like, oh, my character's drinking in this scene, I got to ratchet up. Like, he just gets it. Yeah. I have Gretchen Mal as a nine. I thought she was fantastic. Like, you would have thought she was from Hingham.

Michelle Williams was a nine, but she's a nine with whatever she wants to do. Lucas Hedges, I gave him a seven. Thought it was good. It kind of drifted off a couple times, but for the most part, I believe in it. I thought it was there. What do you think of Chandler? Well.

Because I think Chandler spiritually, when he's getting diagnosed and, like, Casey says something sideways to Gretchen Mall, and he just turns him to go, stop that shit. Like, that is so, like, old Boston guy says that to you. like I had Chandler at a three. So he had the attitude and the demeanor

but he did the classic you know the guy playing JFK who's like yeah right like he just he was trying to do the a little bit but he had the he had the zest

he had that fuck you kind of attitude to it but he never really landed it and then Tate Donovan clearly had showed up two days earlier and was like you want me to use an accent so he's somewhere between a two and a four

he's fine. I'm not holding against him, but I don't think he was with a dialect coach for a month trying to nail it. You forgot the old guy whose pipes are getting fixed at the end who was a 19 out of 10

on the scale. They were using local at all. I don't count. The lady who like after Lee tries to get a job at the boat yard and she comes back and she's like,

I don't want to see him in a minute and he was a good one. I was like, oh shit. I think they used all locals for this. What about CJ Wilson? His friend, George. CJ Wilson's from Alabama. Oh, interesting.

I thought that was a local. He's pretty good. He was a really good character. If Bill thinks he's a local, then it's like a night. All right. Yeah, that was at least an eight. Kid Cuddy Pursuit a Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. Stentorian's first song.

I, I, I, I, I, I got to run. They're cranking in the garage, man. They suck so bad. They suck so bad. It would be funny if for Rock Bottom Month, we changed this to, would this movie have been improved or worse? by adding Kid Cuddy's pursuit of happiness as a needle drop.

There is a Lily Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts the Dylan song is in this too, which is a really, really good needle drop. Would you have for the great shot Gordo? Most cinematic shot. I took the last shot. That's just the two of them with their back. There's a lot of really great back-to-the-camera acting in this movie.

And I thought that last shot, kind of like... Then going up the hill, too, when he's throwing the lacrosse ball. So I really like the hill with the ball. And he's trying to bounce it and he loses it. It was a great throw. It seems like Lonnergan just kept it going. Yeah.

I thought, I don't know, something memorable about it. And then him on the hill with Michelle Williams, like just the way that's framed. The hill's slanted. He did. He's actually below her. I read an interview in filmmaker where Lonnigan's talking about,

because, you know, most people talk to Lonnergan about like, oh, grief or writing. And he was doing a lot of filmmaking talk. And he was saying that a lot of the shots in Manchester are based on his favorite. shot in shampoo, where it's like these two shots that basically, he's like, I love to. I love to get them in the frame together, acting together. Not only is it just like really good, efficient filmmaking, because you can cover more,

but it's just like he's inspired by this, by the 70s film, and you can really see it. I think also the fight that we mentioned before after the heartbreaking scene is cool. It's like a, it's like a Renaissance painting or something, watching the guys beating the shit out of all, like I'm all crowding around him and beating him up. It's just... Yeah. Yeah. It's great.

The Van Lathen Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People? I think A.O. Scott thought it did, right? Yeah. Should we talk about this? Sure. Okay. So there's a... At least in our circles, a somewhat...

I don't know if infamous is the right word, but a very strange review of this movie in the New York Times, which is a very laudatory review. It has all word at the time. That is just like, this is an incredible story. No one has a sense for, like, location, voice, character development like Launergan. But then in the final third of the review, A.O. Scott, the Times critic

back then, is like, this movie is also unmistakably about race. And here are the ways that we know how. One, it's entirely about white male characters. So that alone is like a flag. Two, we see two black characters at the beginning of the movie. Stephen McKinley Henderson, who's like one of the great character actors working right now, who's his boss. And then the woman who has a crush on him, who he's working in the room with.

And otherwise, we see that this is like really a story about the white working class and the way that it is like withdrawn in our society. And he makes like a case for it in the final third of this review, which is certainly his right as a critic. I don't know that I think if you had said to Kenneth Laundrigan, like, were you thinking about race at all while you were making the movie? You might be like, yeah, and here are the ways in which I was. But it's weird for a movie that is like pretty clearly a masterpiece to be like I'm devoting my read of the movie, almost half of my read. of the movie on what feels like a kind of invented theory of what was going on in our culture at the time. So I encourage anybody who likes this movie to read it.

It's a really interesting piece of writing. Yeah. I bet this is not what you thought that we were going to respond with the Van Lathen did this movie before. Where it is in Massachusetts, it's... It is what it is.

I think we might have said that to each other. We were like, in what universe is this a movie about black people? Black people don't live there. Like, and if they do, it's a very small number. It could not be deeper in the North Shore. But yes, Eddie Murphy should be in it. The Butch's girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film.

So I've seen this three times. My wife watched it with me. It was a really fun Saturday morning at the Simmons House. The wife gets out and the kids don't. We can't get past that. And I know like she was sleeping downstairs. The fire department came and pulled her out. But my wife was just like, I'm just not leaving the house.

I'm getting the kids before the furnace blows up. I'm not going to be the first one out. It's not happening. It's not really explained in the movie. They do it as like, oh, he, you know, she's her sinuses, and so he didn't want to put the heat on, and she was downstairs. But it's kind of more than a nitpick for me.

Okay. I think it's, it's a tricky thing because, like, you know, the mechanics of the story are never really even fully explained to us. It's just, like, through what other people. It's all hearsay, basically. You know, we never see anything. Lonergan doesn't really care. my butch's girlfriend is there's a lot of driving in this movie.

Like if you were gonna like, the one week link is like, at one point in the movie, Leah's like, I'm not your fucking chauffeur. And I'm like, I know, because we've been watching you drive this guy back and forth between houses for like 25 minutes in this movie. I don't know if this is a nitpick or a weak link. I don't know, you tell me. But, and it's critical to the movie because the story doesn't work without it. But Patrick not recognizing that Lee,

having to go home and what it is doing to him. And no one ever being like, give him a fucking break. And no one making it clear to him that he can't be here. Like he can't get a job. He can't walk down the street without feeling horrible. Like, Patrick never, ever has any empathy for that throughout the entire movie. It's obviously a purposeful choice. Until he sees the pictures.

It strains credulity. Yeah. Until he sees the photo. Counter. You have a 16-year-old and you know what it's like? 16-year-old are they're like the ultimate narcissist. They have no idea how. anyone else is feeling about anything.

I don't even think it would occur to that kid. Like, hey, I wonder what's going on with Lee today? But if something like that happened in your family? No, what you're saying makes sense, but I also think it's realistic that he's just in his own world and his dad died and he could care less about Lee's feelings about anything. I say this as somebody who probably said 10 words to my son this weekend because he wasn't never home.

It's not like, hey, dad, how was the podcast? Yeah, right. I can care less. How's Chris? Yeah. You guys can see her and Sean today? Did we do Bickamuno Award? I dumped it for this one, but do you want it?

Can I just give a shout out to Sandy's mom's Carbinar? Yeah. Is this homemade carbonara? God, Jill, this is great. What's age the worst? We talked about Casey coming out of this movie and the Me Too stuff that overshadowed his performance. It's what it is. I'd say what's the worst is trying to do something after seeing this movie,

even for the second third. Like dinner right after? Yeah, it's really difficult to like, it's not an easy forget it. Like, let's go get some drinks? Yeah. Do you like to see a movie first and then dinner or dinner first and then a movie? Movie dinner and then you talk about the movie. I don't like to eat at 10 o'clock at night, so probably dinner than the movie.

See, that's why that's a divergence right there. You go to four movie and then you do the four movies. Bankers hours, huh? Yeah. Okay. I got what is the word, Tate Donovan wearing two polos. I don't know if that's like historically accurate to North Shore. Seems locally accurate.

But it's fucking outrageous. So when this movie came out, a couple of the reviews kind of criticized the Adigio. Adagio. Dajio and G minor. Where it was just, I guess, in too many movies. People were like, I was in Roll the Ball and Flash Dance. It's like, come on, Monica, you're better than that. Put Jimmy's Shelter in there?

I don't know. I'm just... It's almost a what stage the worst that people were mad at that because I think that song's pretty effective for movies. CCR. And then... That would have been good. That's an interesting criticism.

Because it doesn't even cite, like... Well, I'm not going to film nerd out. Rollerball also came out 42 years before this movie. Was it like 1975? It was like 50 years ago. So they ran out of money and Damon told the whole story in my 2018 pot

and it's a wood stage the worst because Matt Damon, you're rich like you could have chipped in for a little more money to film the final scene. Did you say that to him when he was on the pot? No, I wish I had. I wish I had. Yeah, hold him accountable.

He said, I love Manchester. I'm incredibly proud of it. But Kenny had an ending. Maybe we could just have Craig play this whole scene if you can find it. That's too much of a pain in the ass. He said, he's like, fuck this.

God damn. Motherfuck I got to listen to both pot. Are you fucking kidding me? He said there was a flashback to before Casey's kids had died in the movie where they're all on a boat, the whole family in their whale watching, an incredible moment of joy and the family's together, and whales start coming out, and we needed a drone. He said, you needed a fucking drone camp.

This is Damon. I was one day a shooting, you got to get lucky with the whales. We could have figured out. It was an epic scene. The camera pulls back. And he was like, it was epic, it was beautiful. It tied the whole thing together. And we ran out of money.

And I was like, fuck. Come on, Matt. Come on, Matt. Dig into the pockets there, buddy. Yeah. You've been seven board movies. Tells you a little bit about how things to work. This is how things work.

People don't put their own money in. They really don't put their own money in. Was there a better title for this movie now? Isn't it great how beautiful this part of the world looks in this movie, too? There's a lot of shots of just the neighborhoods and ocean or the sea. It's really nice over there. Yeah, you don't realize how cold it is through the movies. but Kodad the same thing.

It made Gloucester seem like the most fun place in the planet to go visit. It looks beautiful. Yeah. So the hottest take a word, this is a reader's suggestion. They wanted us to not call it to Stephen A. Smith, hottest take a word anymore.

And the reader suggested that we call it the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford, hottest take a word. How do you stand on this, Sean? I remember that moment vividly on the pod and having an aneurysm. That was the first of many. I just said that was the hottest take that's ever been said on the pod,

and we should commemorate it with putting CR in the award. Thank you. What do you think of that, Craig? I love it. Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Do you want to revisit that take? Was this from old school? I think it was from old school.

Do you think we should have replaced Casey Affleck with Luke Wilson in this movie? I can't beat it. You know, like, can't beat it. Yeah. It's just goddamn. Randy? But I just take a word. This is going to get dark.

But I think the wife shares 50% of the blame. Here we go. Yeah, let's get into it. Yeah, absolutely. Her sinuses, they couldn't put the heat on. Like, get a fucking netty pot. She has one. She's got a humidifier blow.

It's 15. We're not there with flonase yet. You have three kids. Your fireplace screen situation is that flimsy. It's like the number one most important thing you have to have when you have kids. It's a nice, sturdy fireplace screen situation. And then it gets pulled out and her kids are still in the house. I don't know.

know. Where do you stand on him? What is she telling him? Like, she hopes he burns in hell. Maybe she said she should take some account of her. She said to him. What do you think about him crushing 13 Budwisers and doing a few lines? I'm not saying he's blame with us. He's so jittery after 4 a.m. He's got to go to the state store. Go to the packing. Yeah. Let's go to Packy at 2.30 of the morning. It's a great hot take. Thank you. Yep. Do you got one? I think I had something like much more low states. It's the hottest take. I'm going for it.

It's rock bottom money. She's trying to figure out how to come back from that. We can just move on. Well, I think it's just like, uh, it's just the testimony to just like, sometimes it's okay if at the end of your career, if you're a genius, you only have four movies.

Like, if Kenilandah, it only makes four movies, that's fucking awesome. Like, all the time I'm like, oh, but what if they had made more? What if they had done more? There are directors where I'm like, I wish you could crank more out.

Yeah. There are guys who are like, oh, man, it wouldn't be awesome if you were on a, more of like an old studio, and like cranking them out every 20, I romanticized that and I love that Curtis Hansen was just like, yeah, I'm just like making a thriller every 18 months. That's great. Yeah. Soderberg. I love all that shit. But it's like if you got one Manchester by the C and you, or Manchester by the C and you can count on me and you and then that's all you do. Cool. And he did a lot of plays. A lot of plays. Yeah. I mean, who knows, maybe he's got something in the hopper now. He did Howard Zen too, that adaptation of Howard's End, which was really, really good. Was that showtime? It was Stars. Stars. I believe it was a BBC production that was broadcast on Star. I felt the same way about. Howard Zen guy?

No. I felt the same way about Doug Lyman before I saw the Roadhouse remake. Tough. Casting what ifs, we mentioned the Damon piece

and Damon, once he realized he couldn't do it, just steered it to Casey. Let me ask you this. Should Matt Damon had carved out

a couple of Ridley Scott days from the Martian and just been like, I'll come do Joe. I'll be Joe. I'll be the brother. I think it is a better movie if you do that.

So, all right, we're jumping ahead now to recasting couch because I think Ben Affleck should have been Kyle Chandler's part. And I think Damon... I get too distracted. I think Damon should have been Matthew Broderick's part. I think it would have been a little bit over emphasizing what is clearly going on here, but that, like, Joe is the more reliable, maybe more beloved, successful older brother. And I think if you put Damon in that part, it works even better because Damon is that tractor beam. and he's so clearly like he's the guy

you want to put Ben Affleck in there? Who could Ben Affleck? I would love it if Ben Affleck was the guy who walks up like Casey walks up to is like, do I know you? But he's,

why couldn't he have been Joe because they actually like look alike and... They do. They do. I think he was shooting actually brothers. I think he was shooting

Justice League at this time. Yeah. At this point, even though he's coming out of like doing assassination of Jesse James, like the thing about Casey Affleck that he has,

which is kind of like a similar quality but different than like what Philip Seymour Hoffman had, which is essentially, essentially like he's capable of doing movie star parts but is always a character actor like he's always doing a character part i think ben affleck is ben affleck i think one of the reasons overshadows why this movie works is even with matthew broadrick there's never a moment where you get taken out

of the movie you're like oh that's ben affleck you know what i mean like so damon might have just taken you out of the movie he might any party play he might have but he's he's the king of cameos though that's the thing is he's great at this kind of thing you know like he's always showing up in movies for five minutes you're like oh shit mad daman pretty cool I mean, he promoted this movie as if he was in it anyway. Road trip, European Europe. Yeah, European Rootrip, yeah. There's a great casting would have that's even better than the Damon thing.

Timothy Shalamee auditioned for Patrick. Yeah. And did not get it. We're thinking of that one, Craig. Salome playing hockey? Doesn't have the frame. Hedges is way better. I don't know if Shalame gives me...

You can't tell it's draft season that you immediately went to his measurable. Yeah. The frame doesn't work. He didn't run the cones that way. Shalema doesn't give me like middle class or lower class East Coast.

Shalemay's too much of like a NYU kid to me. I mean, they're both NYU kids. I know, but Hedges has the ability to get there that. I don't think Shalema can do that. Hedges does have a Massachusetts feel to him,

which I don't know how he pulled it off, but he definitely does. He's a New York kid, right? I mean, his father was a filmmaker. I don't know if I would have bought being from Manchester by the sea. They were on a collision course to late.

B-bird. They both were pursuing Sir Chironin in that movie, too. Those are the two boyfriends, Lucas Hedges and Shalameh. This is the first Lonargan film, not to feature his wife,

Jay Smith Cameron. Jerry. Yeah. The goat. Who could she have played in this movie? She could have played the lady who's like,

I don't want to fucking see him around here anymore. She could have played the friend's wife, too, and just cradled him, right? What the fuck? Put your wife in there.

Couldn't she have been Sandy's mother? Sure. I want to made the Carbonara? Oh, Heather Burns. Yeah. She would be great. She was one of my that guys.

All right. New category. No prep for either of you. Okay. You can add one character from any other movie and put it in Manchester by the sea. What if I was like Thanos? We're just test driving this one. I think Chris from the town.

Who is she playing? She's at the bar. Oh, she's like, hey, Lee. I think she's like his first, like, night back in the real world. It's like, come on. Hey, Lee. I got a couple of pills. We can make each other feel good.

I was thinking Vince and Hannah. My kids asleep, you know, it's all right. Mother's watching a, you know. Vince and Hannah for the police interrogation. You guys were doing cocaine. Go on. You're walking to a packy store. 2.30 in the morning.

I like Chris from the town. That's great. Best that guy award, it has to be C.J. Wilson, right? As George? He's a good one. Yeah. I like him. What about Anna Beresnikov? Well, I had her for Dionne Waiters. That's the second Patrick girlfriend. Mikhail Beresnikov's literally his daughter.

I did the Amazon pushdown and that popped up on like Baristakoff. I hadn't seen her forever and she showed up in that movie Love Lies Bleeding we came out this year. And his other girlfriend is the girl from Moonrise Kingdom, right? It is. Yeah, Carre Hayward. and they had just been in Moonrise Kingdom together because Lut Hedges is in that too.

Gretchen Moff for Deion Winters? I mean, do you think, you don't think Michelle is in Deon Waiters? It's 12 minutes. Broderick's youth pastor guy is incredible. Yeah. That's an amazing. Like, you know that guy so well with like four lines of dialogue.

Just going to go check on her in the kitchen. Did you get some green beans? I feel like Michelle Williams, even though it's 12 minutes, it's too big. She's the third biggest part of the movie, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to do Tony Romer or Chris Collinsworth, the director's commentary?

Should we skip? No. We both skip that one. They forgot the screen, Jim. Oh, my God. It's going to the factory stores. It's just playing ping pong out there. Stay out of that quadrant.

Half hazard and research. Christ, we're going to hell for that one. Michelle Williams said Lonergan himself was crying on set during some of the heavier scenes. that's when you know you have a sad movie when the director's just stopping. He wrote it. Is Kenneth Lauderdin win Dionne Waiters for his own movie for being like great parenting?

Oh yeah, let's give him that. That's a good one. That's a great story. You mentioned Anna Bersnikov. Lucas Hedges, the scene when he breaks down in front of the fridge, he said someone gave him some advice when you have an emotional scene to not talk to anybody for the entire day.

And then you have this built up energy that then when you have to do the scene, it blows up. I thought that was good. A little inside the actor's studio advice from Lucas. I'm doing that right now for this podcast. You haven't spoken to anyone all day. We've all had that moment too, right? You're standing in front of the freezer and you're like,

why won't the shit fit in the freezer? Right. And then you just have a little melt. It happens. The scene when the paramedics are trying to roll Michelle Williams' stretcher in the ambulance and it keeps falling. Yeah. Not scripted.

Yeah. They actually couldn't get it in and Lonergan just kept it rolling. kind of rips off inherent vice from being honest but you know wasn't this before inherent voice no it wasn't in hern't vice 2014 okay where the the gurney like falls you know what I'm talking about I do okay just sell it for me that was it's a great note you're obviously one of our keenest observers of cinema it's an honor to sit next to you thank you so much was inherent vice that was like a showtime show no it was not a

showtime show it was a Paul Thomas Anderson film I'm kidding Apex Mountain Casey Affleck It's either this or 07 Yeah I mean when's the Oscar Yeah Yeah it's got to be this Lonergan?

I'm gonna say yes I mean he won the Oscar It's a huge success Yeah Yeah He hasn't made a movie since Nine years Nine years

Is he working on anything? I'll give him a call It would be fun if we started Doing more shit like that Where we like called filmmakers On the speakerphone like Kenny Kenny It's Sean C.R and Bill

That's one thing I love. I re-watched the Oscar win. First of all, Damon and Affleck presented Best Original Screenplay that year. Right. A little loaded moment. Yeah. Damon literally came up with the rough idea for the movie. But when he announces Lonnergan, he says, Kenny Lonnergan.

Which is a real, like, it's a real like we're in a club moment, which is how the Oscars used to feel. Oscars don't really feel like that anymore. But it was a real, like, everybody here knows each other. You know what we don't, we didn't talk about for either what's age, I don't know what she's the worst, but for either half-ass internet research or casting what-ifs is like, is fucking Krasinski up at night just being like,

I can't believe I could have been in Manchester by the sea? So I really dug in on that one, and it seems like he was floated initially, but by the time Lonergan was done with this. But I thought it was like, there's versions of the story that they tell where it's like he comes to Damon being like,

we should do something about a working class guy in Boston has to go back to his... Well, he's an EP in the movie. Yeah. Do you think he could have handled this machine? Would you put him behind the wheel of this one? It's just not... Haven't seen him do it in a movie.

Like, with this kind of way... The kind of thing that he does. I will say, a quiet place is not something I ever would have thought in a million years he would have been capable of of as a director, Prisinski. So I don't want to rule, like, rule him out. Casey had at least had the Gone Baby Gone,

there was a little bit of a backbone of like, we've seen him in a dark movie like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michelle Williams, I'm going to say no. What is her Apex Mountain? Venom. Yeah, definitely Venom. Is it like Fosse Verdon?

It's a Blue Valentine? Nobody really saw that compared to like broke back and this and that's a really good question. Should we take a look? Is it favorite? I feel like it was that Blue Valentine kind of era. That's when she had established herself

as like she can be in any movie she wants, basically. which I think is where she wanted to get to. Her IMDB is really interesting. She's been in a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, she goes, So, Necta Key New York, Wendy and Lucy, Blue Valentine, Shutter Island, Meeks cut off.

Oh, God, she was in Shutter Island. She plays Marilyn Monroe. I think she was nominated for an Oscar for my week with Maryland and then Manchester by the Sea. Take this Waltz and then Manchester by the Sea. Boy, that's kind of crazy that she was in Shutter Island because it's basically very similar plot line.

Yes. Yes. Apex Mountain for Manchester by the Sea. I'm going to say no question. The town. The actual town. Sure. Do you know it was called Manchester for years?

And then they changed it. They somehow legally changed the name in the late 80s. Was it because the Manchester? We always called it Manchester, but then now it's Manchester by the city. People kept showing up there being like our joy division formed here. Was that like to distinguish it from the city in England or was it to? I think partly tourism. Well, I guess if you put by the sea in there, people are like, oh.

Let's see. If you're doing a North Shore day trip and you were going down the coast, Gloucester was always the end or you could go all the way down to Rockport, but... It's like Carmel. Isn't that Carmel by the sea? It is. Yeah.

Apex Mountain for Rock Bottom Movies? We'll find out. I don't think so because I think it's a pretty funny movie. And I think it's... Okay. I think some of our other picks are less funny. Okay. Like, there's some movies that we're going to do that are like not funny at all.

Yeah. Can't wait. Craig's like calling it's sick. Lucas Hedges? No. What is? Oscar nominated. Given where his career is gone

and what he's chosen to do, it's pretty high up there. It is. And it's also like if he doesn't take this movie and Chalemay gets it, does Lucas Hedges wind up being in Dune? You know, like, do these guys just do a career swap?

I, Maudib. Lucas Hedges? Yeah. I don't see it. I don't see it. Kyle Chandler, no. You don't do it? Dude's on my list.

I think you would like it. Kyle Chandler, no. North Shore movies. What's up there? It's a perfect storm? It's kind of this first perfect storm in Cota. Booby. Wish we could get some perfect storm.

Boobie. Got these cats. New category. Is she from New England? Not Boston. Test to have another new category. I feel really good about this one. Cruiser Hanks.

Okay, there's a couple different ways to read this. Would in their pomp, like, so like basically 37-year-old cruising Hanks fit into this? Listen, it's just called Cruiser Hanks. You can interpret any way you want. It would be Hanks. Hanks would. For the lead role? For the lead role, Cruiser Hanks.

But wouldn't you want... We're going to keep track of this every rewatchables and eventually have a scorecard. Cruz versus Hanks. I love this idea. Thank you. Love it. I, but what if Cruz was young Patrick? Young Cruz. Risky business.

All the right moves Cruz as Patrick. This is why you're who you are. That's pretty good. Could he do it? He could do it. Outsiders Cruz. He could do it. Sometimes you just got to say, what the fuck.

Two girlfriends. That's what I'm saying. Cock of the Walk. Hockey. Two girlfriends. Band. You know he would have learned to play guitar just to do. Like two scenes?

Yeah. How old is which year, Hanks are we going? Like, we're going like Philadelphia era, Tom Hanks? Like early 90s. A little younger. A little younger than that, right? But yeah, that era, you'd have to adjust it a little bit. Early teenage cruise is really good. He would crush it.

I also think Hanks would have been a great league. Not a great joke. But the category is, Cruiser Hanks, and it's for the lead part. Well, who's the leaf? So sadly. I guess it is. Casey. Yeah.

So I'm going to say Hanks. You're just, even though the idea that I gave you was really strong. No, the idea you gave you had a good end around, but it was Cruiser Hanks for the weird role. So one point, one point Hanks in the-Krague, are you good with Cruz? Cruz losing the Hanks in that one? For the lead, yes, but I love that idea too. Yeah. Okay.

Good category. Cruz or Hanks. Wow. I'm trying to think of what would be the funniest movie to do that for, you know, like Malcolm X. Yeah. Boys of the Hood. Parasite would be funny. Yeah.

Something from this movie, a name from this movie, Racehorse, Rock Band, wrestler, or fantasy team name. Stentorian wins because it actually was a rock band. Yeah. Stentorian's a great name for a horse. Centorian's good.

Yeah. Stantorian can kind of work for anything. What's the vote, Claudia and Marie? And that's their mom? Yeah. Yeah. Love that reveal too when they show the headstone. Yeah, it's great writing.

All right, so pick a knits. No Packie stores open at 3 a.m. in Massachusetts. I don't really know what that. That is. It's like where he goes to buy beer. But like what is it? It's not 7-E-11.

It's where you get like takeout. Called a Packy store. Okay. But it's like. So it's not a 24-7. It's fine. You definitely find them in the kind of little further away from Boston, Massachusetts. They'll have stores like that or little gas stations combined my stuff, but they're all closed after 11.

You're not buying anything from them. Yeah. So a little end around on that one. Can't chase the night? Can't you? Did we need a scene where they go to a B's game? I get, yeah. I definitely felt like there was much more to do with the hockey stuff.

We didn't see Joe and Lee really click too. So maybe they click at a B's game. Well, they click when they're out on the boat with young Patty. But that's showing us that Joe would choose Lee to take care of Patrick. Yeah. But we don't see, we don't, I mean, And you know, this is, and you can count on me one of the great brother-sister movies. We didn't really talk about this earlier, but one of the things that was really interesting

when I was reading Lonergan interviews is, you know, people are like, is this about guilt? And he's like, really, it's about grief. And at one point he's like, but this movie is also about loyalty. And about how loyalty is strange. Like, what do we decide that we owe people? Like, and is it because you have the same last name or is it just because you're their friends? And at the end, you know, he winds up being adopted by George. there's a financial incentive.

But there is also like a sense of community. And I guess like the thing that's kind of cool is that Joe saves Lee's life after the fire. Like he basically clearly props him up and like gets him the furniture and stuff like that. I really like the idea that like there can be loyalty without there necessarily being chemistry. You know? Yeah. You guys don't know. You don't have a brother.

We hung out the fantasy. siblings. That was really nice. Yeah. My brother is best. Yeah. My brother would definitely not leave me in charge of his kids, though. My wife had that as a nipik that he didn't tell Lee ahead of time that he was going to be the guardian for the kid. And I was like, well, the reason he didn't do that was because he knew Lee. Yeah, he knew Lee would say no to that. It's the ultimate same game parlay. He's like, I'm betting Patty that this guy's going to fucking

with the rocket to make the playoffs in plus 550 why did Joe pick a a burial plot that was frozen for three months a year isn't that just Massachusetts

I also think it's like Is this a thing like if you die in December I was like I was like this is like if not biblical it's almost like out of Russian literature where it's like we have to wait for the earth to thaw

but when the earth thaws I will thaw yeah that's a very writerly playwright convention that he's got in the movie that same with the ball, you know, like the ball being thrown away and instead of letting it go, he goes and he catches and he grabs the ball and he brings it back. He's like, I'm not going to give up. I'm not going to give up on you. He does that. This is like a really hardcore nitpick, but Manchester is

nicer than, it's a little less blue collar than depicted in this movie. Yeah, he said, I don't, I don't, I don't think I ever went there, but like, he says it's like, it has like a lot of different character because it's like in the summer, it's very rich. Yeah. In the off season, it's more working It's a pretty upscale town. The last one I had was, again, we made a good case for how there's stuff intentionally left out that actually helps the story. With that said, a flashback scene with drunk Gretchen Mal would have been amazing. Yeah. And I kind of wish it was in here.

We get one of her laid out on the couch. That's the only thing that really indicates that she's got some. Yeah. Although they've got no patience for her when Joe's getting the diagnosis. Yes. Yeah. You know, they're just like, will you relax? Yeah.

Please stop. So she seemed like she was maybe a handful. Let her cook. Let Gretchen cook for one scene. You should advocate for doing Rock Bottom Month to have directors go back and do directors' cuts of like now with more bottom seven added scenes of absolutely harrowing shit.

Yeah. You just reminded me that the movie seven would be pretty good for Rock Bottom Month. We've obviously already done that, but that's not a movie that ends very happily. again. You have any picking nits, Chris? Not really, no. Okay. I'm hung up on Patty, just not giving Lee a fucking break.

Yeah. Would you give your, come on. I can't go back to being 16. I mean, I wouldn't give you a break today. Yeah. But I, I don't know. His two girlfriends would find out about each other immediately. Yeah.

That's a good point. That's a good nitpick. No way, she knows. Yeah. Sounds too small. She says it at the end, but it's not working. Also, she seems to be like a little bit more okay with that lifestyle. I don't get the impression.

that Sylvie would have appreciated the two-timing. Yeah. These kids aren't on Instagram in 15? Yeah. Early. Yeah, they would be. It's early Instagram, but you haven't. Definitely.

Not that early. I had Instagram in like 2010. Yeah. 2011. I was trying to think for girls. Yeah, I guess my daughter was 11. Yeah, I guess. Huge missed opportunity when you asked the Dune 2 question

to drop a Dune 2 chicks at the same time joke right there. I love that. It's amazing. It's one of the best. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, Byron Mayo, Harley Mays,

evil laughing, Ramon Raymond, or Philip Bakerall. Actually, this list is getting so long, but I have to add another name. I cut some people. I have to add another name.

Who? And would it be better if Sergeant Dignam from the departed was the hockey coach? Oh, you think you Sean fucking Thornton? You think you're an enforcer plan

for the bees? You up there with your little girlfriend playing hide the calzone? You're dropping your ass? That's a great one. I dig them. Love that guy. You're in the big bad, Southie projects with your daddy the fucking donkey. You lace curtain motherfucker.

Should Chris from the town be added to that category? Maybe it should just be all fictional characters. Maybe just lose dated tray over. we lose everybody. Just one Oscar who gets it. I would say Lonnergan. Yeah. He did.

Not Michelle? Well, Affleck won and Lonnergan won. So we got it basically, those are our two choices. Just saying we could go revise our choices? Tate Donovan. You're going to take Viola Davis's Oscar for fences and fucking tears and snatter coming out of her face? Maybe this film really was about race, Chris.

It just became. Oh, fuck. Yeah, let's get it. Fentz is a good Hanks or Cruz Fence is perfect, yeah Yeah, yeah Gotta go Hanks there

Just want to ask her Who gets it, we did it We did not do Probably in answerable questions Did Stentorian ever put out an album? No, but I do think they play a couple parties and that's where the girls Find out about each other

Oh, that's Yeah So that could be the Indian Reds One-N-A or what happened the next day The two girls fighting at a Stentorian party Yeah All summer because those girls are hunting for them

Do you talk about Patty's issues with the condom? Seems to be like, that's almost like a joke from 1987 to me. Is that supposed to be also like a little bit of a like he has no parental guidance? Right. He's like, yeah, I talked to my dad about it, but like he's not being raised, you know? So you sat down with your father and had a long conversation about how to apply a condom? I can promise you, I've not had that combo. I was 23 years old.

Should I be talking to my son about that? That's maybe for the mailbag. This is a question for. Rock bottom month for bills. Right now. Probable in a sensible question just for Sean. Why is Matthew Broderick so weird in every fucking movie really for like

15 years? How did this become Matthew Broderick's career? Him just playing weird side characters. This was Ferris Bueller. He in election and you can count on me in a very small window plays like two of the most

sniveling, awful take advantage of your female counterpart in a movie characters. And it felt like at the time, he was like, I'm going to completely subvert what you think I'm going to do. I'm not cool Ferris Bueller anymore. I'm a character actor. I'm going to take these parts. Fast forward 15 more years. I don't know why he's still doing those parts,

but he seems to have settled on this strategy. I don't know. Maybe he thinks it's funny. Is he just furious that he didn't get Ice Storm and that Kevin Klein got his part? And he's just like, I'm just going to be trying to make that up for the rest of my life. I think being married to Sarah Jessica Parker means that he can do whatever he wants. He also, he's on the stage.

Like, on the stage, he still does. Yeah. You know, he's in the producers, for Christ's sake. Like, that's huge, and he's able to be the star of the show. I think with movies, he's like, I just like to fuck around and play these, like, little snivly little dwebes. I don't get it. Obviously, I had to research what Celtics Mavs game that was.

Yeah, that's an... Isaiah Thomas is featured, right? Yep. November 18, 2015. Celts lost 106-102. Wow. Dirk had 23. Isaiah had 19 and Jared Sullenger with a double double 18 and 12.

Yeah. That 2016 team had a beating in spread. Yeah, he got hurt. He had a bed back. Best double feature choice with this movie. I would say you can count on me. Very good. Start with that and finish with this.

Google Hunting is an interesting one. Hmm. Because they're similar worlds. I'm going to throw Shutter Island out there. Sure. I thought you'd have said the town. No. I liked your Andy and Red So Watanay Award, so we'll go with that.

What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Probably nothing. Well, you'd like the boat, right? The boat would be cool. If it's just the memorabilia, you don't have to invest. A reader had a suggestion that we should... If you could change it to Isaiah Thomas is the name? No, we should only pick memorabilia that can fit through a door.

Oh, okay. The fireplace screen? I like a lot of Casey Affleck's... What's that? It's the fireplace screen for... from Manchester by the same. A lot of Lee's sweatshirts are pretty cool to me. His sweatshirts.

Oh, he does have some cool clothes. And he's got the dugout cafe shirt that he wears in every scene. Yeah. The coach Finstock will wear a best life lesson. Sometimes you can't beat it. Just can't. You can't bring a distraction to the ice.

What if I was just like, did this entire pot that I just insisting that this is a hockey movie? Do you think you be a good hockey coach? This is not a great hockey player who got distracted? You know, Chris fantasizes about coaching our kids in soccer. This is like what he really wants for the world.

He phrased that differently? That's Chris fantasizes about being a soccer coach for our little kids. Like being like a 10-year-old soccer coach? I want to be like the Jose Marino of Sean's kid. Yeah. Just like setting her up for success. And our friends too. All of us who have little kids.

Did you ever want to be the guy who's like, I'm running this club. I'm running this team for your kids. I tried my daughter's school. I wanted to be the. eighth grade basketball coach for the boys. And I was like, this is fair because she's on the girl's side and they wouldn't let me do it. I would have gone to every game.

I honestly would. I really wanted to do it. I was like this, but they had a rule that the coach had to work for the school, but I was ready to do it. That was ringer days. Oh yeah.

That was mid-2010. If you would then gotten a job coaching against Ben, maybe you'll learn something if I beat your ass every time we play. That's a sports movie idea. I was so fired up to do it. too. And they were just like absolutely not. The rewatchable probably never happens. I was like I can't

got a game. Yeah. We're playing turning point at 430. It's a vicious turning point. Yeah. It's just a fucking eighth grade basketball being's like, great call Bill. What an ATO! Well, remember I took you guys to Zoe's fifth grade game that time? Yeah. Super fun. I do. But I like the older older ones. Lonnergan winning the movie. Yeah. I guess so. I made that speech about how it's okay to only make four movies, but man, I would just love to see a movie by him soon. Wouldn't that be great? maybe he's where there's no way he's done

I don't know Jerry she got all that succession money you know he may not he may be living high on the hog right now what do you got Craig I had seen this movie I saw the year it came out and I think it was way better the second time around when you know what's coming

because then you can appreciate and sit back and look at everything else there's so much dread the first time around that it's like such a tough watch and you come out of it just going like my god that's the saddest movie I've ever seen but the second time around I liked it so much more

because, yeah, I just appreciated the filmmaking so much more. It's so simple and very well-paced. It's really well-edited. The woman who edited Oppenheimer, Jennifer Lane. Oh, Jefferlin did this. And she did. You kind of just can't look away from this movie. It's so slow and so quiet.

And yet I found myself just like sitting there with like my arms crossed, just like quietly staring at this movie for two hours, which is incredible. I think it's a 10 out of a 10 of a movie. You'd go over watch it again. Probably not. Yeah. But you know what's funny is like if you're, You removed the three devastating, most devastating scenes from this movie.

It's like, and it came out today, it'd be like one of the third, top three funniest movies of the year. Like, this movie is like funnier than like Ricky Stinicki. Yeah. It also feels like those like outside Providence style, you know, like coming of age movies minus the mega tragedy. Yeah, you just pull those three scenes out and it's Lee and Pat. This is a comedy.

Yeah. That's kind of how the movie is sold a little bit in the trailer. I don't know if you guys rewatch the trailer. But like there's a middle part of the trailer. that's just like... Fun funny stuff? What's the Peter Gabriel's song that's in every trailer?

Salisbury Hill. It sounds like it should be set to Salisbury Hill, you know, and they're like fighting in the house. It's like, I can't get it unless you unlock the door. Yeah. Should we... Should trailers be a re-watchables category? Oh, I'm upset.

We were just talking about this. I'm obsessed with them now. 90s and 2000 trailers. Somebody suggested you're talking about the new alien trailer. Like, right the trailer. You can't have a bad alien trailer. They're just like, everyone. You're just like home run.

I was telling him I went to the new Beverly and they showed the trailer for up close and personal, the Robert Redford. Michelle Fifeber movie and I was like, I remember that movie being perfectly fine but after I saw the trailer

I was like, let's fucking go. Like I am ready to watch this right now. Because it had the in a world. It had the in a world guy. It was awesome. Yeah, they used to be so good. Yeah, maybe we should add trailers.

All right, that's it for the pod. Produced by Craig Coralbeck as always. Do you want to tease what's next? Or do you not know? We don't know yet. Okay. I'll do it on my Thursday pod. All right, good to see you, Craig.

Good to see you, see you, C, R and Sean. Thanks, Bill. Thanks Bill.