The Rewatchables - ‘Mean Girls’ With Bill Simmons, Juliet Litman, and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: April 30, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Juliet Litman, and Amanda Dobbins try to make “fetch” happen as they rewatch the 2004 comedy ‘Mean Girls,’ starring Lindsay Lohan and Rachel McAdams and written by Tina Fey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Rewatchables is brought to you by Voodoo, a leading streaming app of the library of over 150,000 titles available to rent or buy and over 8,000 titles you can watch for free on their ad supported on-demand service. Voodoo is incredible. I bought the Fast Furious 8-pack for like half price, and now I just have them on the tips of my fingers. Any fast movie I want to watch. Also, right now they have all the nationally improved vacation movies.

So go there now. Check it out. Voodoo.com slash rewatchables. Sign up and start watching today. VUDU.com slash rewatchables. Coming up, Amanda, stop trying to make fetch happen. Mean girls, right after this. I'm 16.

Until today, I was homeschooled. And then it was goodbye, Africa. And hello, high school. Hi, I'm Katie. I'm Janice. This is Damien. Watch up. New meat coming through.

This map shows the school's sent. nervous system, the cafeteria. You got your cool Asians, burnouts, jocks, the greatest people you will ever meet, and the worst. So you've never been to a real school before? Shut up. Shut up!

I didn't say anything. I'm sorry I laughed at you. Up! I'm sorry I called you back. I'm sorry that people are so jealous of me. But I can't help it that I'm popular. Walk it up! You know who's looking fine tonight?

Seth Mosikowski. He is your cousin. He is your cousin. What? He's a good kisser. So I don't know where to begin with this one. It's 15 years, April 30th. That's really scary.

People think Mean Girls Day is October 3rd, but actually it came out on April 30th. We'll get into Mean Girls Day because I didn't even know about this until I was researched in the movie. I'm a man. I had no idea of this was happening. I want to start with the Smart Teen Movie lineage championship belt. Oh, wow. Fun.

Yeah. How about that? Yeah. Because I feel like Fast Times original. on high was the first one. Yes. Where it was like, oh, teens. Look at them.

They have real issues too. They're real people. Things are happening to them. Breakfast Club. Heather's, clueless, mean girls. Easy A. Love Easy A. Agree.

And the kissing booth. I think that's the latter. Well, because these movies are dumber now. We're never going to have like the super smart. To all the boys I've loved before. All right, either one. Yeah. You want to do that one instead?

I do because I think every movie that you just named part of its smart appeal is that adults like it as well and can find things to relate to it. And I think the kissing booth was a teen phenomenon. And I'm shout out to the teens. You keep us young. But also, to all the boys I love before really had a cross-generational appeal. So I was thinking the reason I went kissing booth was because it kind of revived teen movies, but you're right. Okay. To all the boys I loved before was smarter, it did more things within the thing.

So anyway. Is there any other movie you would throw in the movie? the last four decades? I can't believe you went from clueless mid-90s all the way to 2004, Mean Girls. What a desert for smart teen movies. Well, I thought about 10 things I hate about you, but I don't think that movie's really that smart. That's more, because the other type of teen movie is like the secret admirer type of like just kind of dopey but lovable teen movie, which there's been a million of. I can't think of one that like I'm like, how could we not include this? But that's just like, that's such an indictment because there were so many teen movies.

in that 10-year stretch. They really were. Especially like the six-year stretch from 94 to like 2001, basically. That's true. They got, well. Like American Pie, not a smart movie. No, because they, I mean, everything got a little dumb around 1999. That's sort of the thing.

I was going to throw in, and we're going to talk about this at some point, cruel intentions. But is that a teen movie? It's about teens. It's a teen movie. But, you know, it's definitely, it's commenting on both the genre of movie and also what it means to be a teen, which is I think the definition. of like smart teen movie. Well, we're doing that on rewatchables 99 on Luminary. That's actually an adult movie that's using teens,

which is what makes it so weird and uncomfortable. It's a movie with 35-year-old characters, but they're 18. I still can't believe we're going to talk about this in a work setting. But we are, and I believe in us. We might have to bring Mallory in for just the hammer. Oh, sure. After every line almost gets crossed, we'll just bring her in to just obliterate it. I feel like she's probably got a real soft spot for the Sarah Michelle Geller character

or something. So if you had to rank the teen movie lineage, those seven. I think those are the seven ones. Oh, I have one nomination, but it's not really a comedy. Scream. That's like an interesting teen movie. Yeah. That's interesting.

So that could be the next. I think that also was like. Can I throw that in between Clueless and Mean Girls. That actually works with the time. I like that. All right. So we got Fast Times, Breakfast Club, Heather's Clueless, Scream, Mean Girls, EasyA, to all the boys I loved before.

And the reason I mentioned this is, So you're talking about like four, three to seven years, basically. But all those movies belong to if you were the age of the characters roughly, then that becomes your movie. So like Breakfast Club is by a movie. Right. I can do any line from Breakfast Club. I can do the entire Amelia Vest of his speech about taping Larry Lester's buns together.

I was the exact same age of the people in that movie. Yeah. For other people, it's mean girls. Sure. For my daughter, it's probably maybe she hasn't even. had her movie yet because she's only 13, but it's probably to all the boys I loved before. She's part or a kissing boo. She's seen the most. I was going to say also it's if you're that age or like slightly younger. Because I was going to say mine is clueless, but I was not in high school and

clueless. I was in middle school. So you have to be like between 13 and 16 when it becomes your movie. Yeah. Slightly aspirational and sort of like this is what my future will look like if I'm lucky. Right. It's like you had a subscription to 17 when you were like 11. And then by the time you were actually 17 years old, it was like child's play. Yeah, you're like, you were ready to dress for the part because you'd been looking at it for so long. Studying different

personas that you were intrigued by. The way they were presented to you by magazines, like, this is the smart girl, this is the cool girl. Yeah. So fast times written by Cameron Crow, he actually went under Carver in high school as a grown-up to try to learn how people were talking. Breakfast Club

was John Hughes. I forget who did Heather's, but that movie's crazy and now has an age well because of the whole, basically 20 plus years of school shootings has made this movie. It's kind of hard. It's much harder to watch, but it was really clever at the time. Like, I remember where I saw that one. It seemed like Christian Slater was the next Jack Nicholson whole thing.

Clueless kind of brought the genre back. Yeah. Can I tell you a fun fact about Heather's though? What? It was written by Daniel Waters, who is the brother of Mark Waters, who directed Mean Girls. Oh, wow. Yeah. Anyway.

Ooh. I didn't know that off the topic. I didn't have that at the top of my head. I was Googling and recognized the name. But anyway, there you go. So there is a connection. Clueless brought the genre back and I think people missed it. I think also made it really female.

Like, took it out of the hands of men. Amy Heckerling was like, this is mine. And Tina Faye is a great kind of like ushered in a new era. And I think you can like kind of feel that more female guiding hand in the movie in a little. Tina Faye kind of overqualified to even do a teen movie. Like she, like, and this is just a really smart movie from. beginning to end. The characters are very distinct.

She knows exactly what she wants to do. And then she has Lohan, who's, I think, the best actress we've ever had in any of these movies. So talented. Yeah. Because you go, like, Fast Times, Jennifer Jason Lee obviously went on to have a pretty great career. I think Lohan had the most talent of all of them. EZA, Emma Stone would be the other candidate for just completely overqualified to be in one of these movies. And then Heath Ledger and Ted Things I Hate About You, Another One.

An All Time Performance. So we've had good people in these movies. Low hand. I mean, it's just a tragedy. It's like in sports. It would be like, you know, almost Penny Hardaway, like some of these people we talk about reverentially who got hurt or blew out an ACL or drug problems.

Yeah. It's like, I remember the moment her song, Rumors hit the radio. And I like thought it was really funny. But that's the moment it ended. The second that Rumors came out, which I think was like in 2005. I stand for rumors. Just for the record. I'd like everyone to know.

Wow, I stand for rumors. Yeah. So she has Parent Trapp in 2002, which I never realized was a good movie until I had kids. And my daughter watched that for like a year straight. And she's like jarringly awesome in that movie. She's playing two different characters as what has the English accent. She's great. It's an Andy Myers movie.

She's great. Yeah. She's great in that movie. Saw that in theaters, loved it. Yeah. Freaky Friday. So that made $92 million. Freaky Friday comes out.

I kind of forgot what a monster movie that was. I mean, 160 million has the 88% of Rotten Tomatoes. And Roger Ebert wrote, Lohan has that Jody Foster sort of seriousness and intent focus beneath her teenage persona. So at this point, we're like, this is the next Jody Foster. She's going to do these teen movies and then win Oscars.

Did confessions of a teenage drama queen didn't go as well on them mean girls. Yeah. And then the wheels came off, basically. It's tough. And she had so much. promise a mean girl. She was so good. And as the narrator, she really carries it, too.

It's not just like her great performance, but she has to do so much work. It's really sad. Like when you watch Low Hands Beach House on MTV, it's like hard to believe it's the same person. Yeah, and it flipped pretty good. As soon as she dyed her hair, it felt like it started getting weird. Like, she just kind of, she had this look that was all-American, but also she was really pretty, and she was a great actress. Yeah. And it was like kind of the total package. She really was.

I would guess, like, this person is going to have a career for 40 years. Yeah. I mean, you know, she had family issues. She obviously kind of got caught up in the... Family issues. I'm trying to be generous. I'll also, like, not get into it. Obviously, she had, like, parents who were nightmares.

And she had, it seemed like she had one of, on like the bad family scale. Yeah. One to ten, she's probably like a nine. Really high. Really high. Really, really bad parenting situation. Right. And obviously it's like been in the spotlight since she was a child.

Then she gets caught up in, like, the TMZ. was it like pre-TMZ kind of like the Us Weekly Paris Hilton It was right when that was starting. Yeah. It was like celebrity culture was flipping into. Right. Let's like remember Kitson once upon a time. Yeah.

Robertson Boulevard. Rocking down Robertson. Oh yeah. So I remember I went and looked for this too because I wanted to send it to you to, but I couldn't find it on the internet. MTV used to do that show where they spent the day with somebody. Do you remember that? Sure.

It was called like Diary or one day at a time. It's called Diary. So I looked it up on IMDB and it said diary ended. the year before, but I know I watched this. There's no way I could have imagined it. It was a day with Lindsay. It was right before Mean Girls came out. And it was her and her friends just doing their thing in L.A.

and going to Tower Records. And there's this one point in it where she just starts berating one of her friends in, like, not a funny way. And you could just see the hints of like, oh, she's going to be a problem. I didn't realize it was one of those. Yeah. But it never really manifests themselves. Like she hosted SNL. She was great on the first Estinac she hosted.

By the time she comes back in 2005, the whole monologue is about all the problems she said with Tina Faye. And it just, she was never able to get it back. It's pretty sad. Did you ever watch her Oprah show a couple years ago where Oprah has like an intervention with her? No. Just like, it's worth watching. It was on own. Oh, isn't that the one where she said she had only done cocaine like 15 times or something?

Yes. It's just like there's a lot of reality TV at this point. So there's like a lot to pull from. and she's always playing a different character. I think you felt like you could know her and that was part of her charm and me and girls. You're like, you could know this person. You couldn't, like, this is like a real, like,

girl from Long Island who happens to be a great actress. But now, like, that person is lost and I have no idea who she actually is anymore. And the internet really took her and ran with it in a bunch of different ways, including, like, two years of, does she have implants or does she not? Like, that was all the thing.

Is she on drugs? Is she not? It was right at the same time as the rise of Perez Hilton and all of the first round of gossip blogs. She was kind of the first victim of it. Yes. And they were not nice. It is not how we would talk about people today. Well, it's how many people still do talk about it that way, but it's frowned upon.

And at that time, I was just kind of standard that she would be a target of. Pictures of her, like, getting out of limos with no underwear on and then like close-ups of things. Maybe we didn't. We just wouldn't do stuff like that now. 15 years later. It's really too bad. Like, I really feel like this is like talking about an athlete that you just think like, oh, man, if they hadn't had cocaine issue or if they hadn't had torn ACO, this would have happened, that would happen. It's like Brandon Roy.

And so much of her appeal in Mean Girls and kind of her early work, there is like a presence, for lack of a better word, kind of movie star quality, that relatability of, like, as Juliet said, of like, oh, you can just be, you're kind of like her. She's like someone you would know or someone you would want to be friends with. And that kind of goes away with experience. It's not like something that she could get back necessarily. Because even if she's kind of everything went right for Lindsay Lohan and she has a late comeback career resurgence, you'll be bringing all the baggage and everything you know about Lindsay and she will as well. So we can't, it's like we can't go back. Yeah. Can't go back.

She needs like an exorcism. It's like the only way. No, it's, it's unfortunately it's over. And, you know, River Phoenix, who I think is another one where there's a lot of what-ifs that go with him and all the other actors loved working with him, really respected him. He did some good work and then he overdosed. And there's been certain actors and actresses where this has happened. And it really does remind me of sports. But like with River Phoenix, if he had lived and just had all kinds of issues for the next 20 years, like maybe there's River Phoenix's beach house.

I was like, this is like the worst way. It's almost, you're almost better just disappearing from a career standpoint versus what's happened to her the last 12 years. I think it's really sad seeing her on beach house. It is really sad. I agree. It's just a reminder of this really talented person who it just went sideways. And now she's a meme and she's not even really like participating in any of the, it's,

the joke is on her instead of with her for a lot of these things. And that's a bummer. It's super, it doesn't feel good. This is the worst example of this arc. Of like teen stardom gone wrong, basically. Well, yeah, because she was the most talented of all of them. You know, you go through all the Corrie's and all those people. They were people who had their moment, but they weren't going to win Oscars and things like that.

She seemed so possessed and, like, not possessed, like so poised and Mean Girls and Smart. It's hard to believe has happened. Right. Because it just seemed like she had the tools. It's just weird. Well, but let's, you know, let's not look past the arc of the character, Katie and Mean Girls, who goes over to the dark side and does it quite convincingly. And there is a certain edge to Lindsay Lohan that even like she's very young in this movie,

but it's what makes her compelling and interesting is that you can see her flipping the other way. And this movie is all about the power that those types of girls have on people. When she turns it on with the dude, what's the name of the dude she likes? Aaron Samuels. And when she's flirting with them in class, and it's like, whoa, you flip that switch, Lindsay. Yeah. She also, the first SNL she hosted, she's really great in it. And that was the one that had the Debbie Downer. He's one of the most famous sketches of that decade.

But she's just really good in that. At Disneyland, right? Yeah. One other thing with this, I think, what do you guys think is the best Lauren Michaels movie ever? So here are the nominees. Okay. I think it's really just these three, Wayne's World, Mean Girls, and Tommy Boy. I think would be the three unless there's one other one I'm missing.

But I went through and it's like those, I think this is the best Lauren Michael's movie. I guess you're not in the Magrubber Hive. I'm not either, but so many men are, like so many. But I think this is the best version of how the Lauren Michaels movie thing goes, where he has somebody who's really talented, let's him paint the canvas, absolutely, gets the right people behind it. And this was a monster movie.

This made $129 million, $17 million budget. All three of those, I feel like the stars didn't really hit the peak you thought they were going to. Yeah, Farley's another one like this. You know, Farley had this, it started to get sad near the end, which I think people don't remember, but was another one of a kind guy. And there hasn't been a low hand since, which I also think is interesting. Like a teen star? Somebody quite like her.

I don't feel like it's happened. Do you? We've 15 years since. I feel the same way about Alicia Silverstone. Like she had something that I just haven't really totally seen since. I think that those two examples really speak to how difficult it is to be in the public. guy when you're a young woman. Like, I just think it is so hard.

I mean, the, like, several years later, stories about Alicia Silverstone just being so enterxic on set of clueless are, like, pretty devastating and, like, really sad. And I think that it's no coincidence, as Amanda pointed out, that Lindsay Lohan's kind of downfall coincides with the rise of paparazzi internet culture. And, like, maybe it would have been different if she'd been a little more sheltered from it. Yeah, but now we have social media.

I think there's been some casualties of that, too. I think also they just don't become actresses. like the next person who popped in my head was Miley Cyrus, who started as Hannah Montana and was definitely in the eye. And definitely you remember that Vanity Fair cover where she was underage and not wearing a shirt and people had a whole hull of blue, which, you know, was kind of concerned trolling in my opinion. But Brittany. Yeah. But they all go to pop stars.

Because I think it's kind of hard to be a young actress right now. There's also like. Kudos to Emma Stone. Yeah. She made a concrete. It just all bounces off of her. Unbelievable. What a career. Yeah.

She must have great parents. Yeah. I do think the great parents thing is like wildly underrated with all this stuff. I agree. I think that's also kind of true with Miley Cyrus. Like she has someone in her father and her godmother, Dolly Parton, who like, like, you know, it's just a different. So this book was adapted from, or this movie is adapted from the book, Queen Bees and Wannabees by Rosaline Wiseman. Either of you read that one?

No. No. I just got the clip notes in this movie. Queen Bees and Wanabies. Solid title. It's like a nonfiction study of high school dynamics, right? Yes. I think it's of Nutraire High School or like the North Shore of Chicago.

Anything else before we get to the categories? Because there's a lot to dive into it up. Let's go. Great movie. Where does this is this your favorite high school movie? No. What's your favorite high school movie? Um, God, that's a good question.

God, you're kidding. You're like beaming right now. You're so excited. Part of for me is I don't, I was just so intemned. TV and the WB at this is around the kind of peak high school age. A lot of that stuff pops out a lot more for me. But I really love she's all that. I really did.

Oh, wow. I really loved it, yeah. What was that, Rachel Lee Cook? Yes, Rachel Lee Cook and Freddie Prince Jr. And a young Kieran Culkin. It's Kevin Pollock. Yet another movie that's ripped off from an earlier movie. And now these movies are like that last movie with no centennial on Netflix just now.

Yeah. That movie rips off like seven movies that I've seen over the course of my life. Well, sometimes you just want to play this. hits, you know? Yeah. She saw that is also one of the movies that has not aged. Oh, horrible. Yeah, that's, it's a tough one. But I'll shorten little Kim and her in it. Listen, I,

I, you had a wonderful high school experience and you get so happy when you talk about it and that brings me joy. So that's great. One of my favorite Hollywood teen movie tropes is when the guy doesn't realize right away that his really hot friend is hot and it takes like

an hour, 20 minutes. Secret of has Lori Lofun, see Thomas Howes in love with Kelly Preston, and Lori Lofun's his best friend, and he has no idea she's attractive until like 10 minutes left in the movie. He's like, wait a second. Lori Lofun. That's like Dawson's Creek. No one looked at Katie Holmes until she put on makeup and Joe, Joey Potter.

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$20 off your purchase. All right. Most rewatchable scene. I'm probably missing a couple here. The talent show. Iconic. It's all I can think of when I hear Jingle Bell Rock now. It really totally took over Jingle Bell Rock for me.

It also captures how in a high school or even a college situation, the little cluster of good-looking woman would absolutely do like that Jingle Bell Rock in front of everybody else and make it like a little too sexy and uncomfortable. A little. It hits all the points. I mean, I don't want to be like the prude aunt here, but like this is not high school appropriate, just for the record. I think it... Yeah, if my daughter was involved in this, I'd probably have to be carried out in a stretcher.

Right. Like, what is happening? I think it's kind of accurate. When I'm at the Century City Mall and I see, like, teen girls, I'm just like, how did you leave the house like this? What were you wearing when you got in the car and then took off? I mean, sure, that's really accurate. But they don't go to school functions like that. I think there are school dress codes or at least they were.

I think they do. Oh, no. I like, I'm very familiar with this by way of Kyle Richards and Maurizio Humanski's daughters. on Instagram. It's just like, I think it's accurate. Great seeing, though. And obviously, Amy Poller in the aisle, yeah. Dancing along for daughter.

Very good. The sabotage montage, I just really enjoy. Although I never understand the part where he steals the purse. Aaron Samuels chases the guy. They walk in on the coach and the girl. And then Aaron Samuels is never like, wait a second. What's going on here? Right.

It's just kind of let them look. Yeah, there's not some sort of resolution. That's a particular plot line. Future Nipic. Yeah. The four-way phone call. It's a good one. Good stuff.

We'll get into what's age the worst with that later. The watch where you're going, fat-ass lunch scene. You can walk home, bitch is fat-ass. Followed by Lindsay Lohan realizing she's the new Queen Bee with the two falling her. That whole stretch is just really good. Really good. The Burnbook Blowout Brawl. Oh, with Regina throwing the.

And then the fight and everybody fighting with each other. And Tim Meadows going, what's the coach? Step away from the underage girls. All that part's amazing. And then Janice Ian's confession and Regina getting hit by the bus, that whole part. What else would you have? I have two more to nominate. First is the very first lunch scene when Regina invites Katie to sit with her.

Oh, that's good. So you think you're really pretty. That's really interesting. Thanks. You're like really pretty. Thank you. So you agree. What?

You think you're really pretty? Oh, I don't know. Oh, my God. I love your pretty. Yeah. And you're just kind of getting the whole dynamics of how she operates. Just a virtuoso Regina scene. And then the first burn book scene with Amy Polar, I'm a cool mom.

If you're going to drink, I'd prefer you do it in the house. You know, that whole scene, including the burn book and them. kind of critiquing themselves. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just surprised you, except for the purse dealing, no Aaron Samuels, because I feel like the stuff in math class is pretty good when he turns around. That's just you being attracted at Aaron Samuels.

He is cute. He's like a trainer in L.A. now. Like, you could, like, find him pretty easily. I'm just saying. Juliet can have a whole life of being personal trained by Aaron Samuels and going to bars with bartenders that are on the challenge in the bachelor. Sounds like a sad life for me. Or a great life.

bigger. I think Lindsay Lohan wearing the oversized pink lacrosse shirt is one of like my I love when they're walking down the hallway and she obviously doesn't fit in. She's trying to wear pink on ones. I think that's mine just because I feel like it captures the essence of the movie. I like the I think the Bernblik bro-up brawl followed by Tim Meadows in the gym is my single

favorite section. So I'm going with that one. It's really good. Amanda. I think I'm going with the first lunch scene. Okay. Because it's just burned in my brain, the plastics at the lunch table. That's kind of the first thing I think of when I think of this movie. It is a high degree of difficulty where you're introducing a bunch of characters in the situation

and the bigger context than they do it in like three minutes. It's a really smart scene. I'm with you. Also, I had never heard of Rachel McAdams before. I mean, so for that to be the entrance of Rachel McAdams into our lives, is huge. Had she not done anything major before that? I did not know her, and I remember being shocked to find out she was 27 when she was in Mean

Girls. I was just like, wow, that's incredible. She, I mean, she'd been in Canada, where she's from. She was in the Hot Chick, but I didn't see that. Canadians. She didn't have anything, like, particularly huge, so this, like, really, like, made her career. 2004 is Mean Girls and then the Notebook. Yeah.

Well, and then right after that, the wedding crashers. Wedding Crashers. Yeah. And the very underrated Red Eye. Great movie. Great movie. I now love Killian Murphy retroactively. We did a whole Rachel McAdams thing when we did the Winning Crashers podcast about the basically coming out of the gate with just some monster hits.

And then, you know, a combo of just bad luck with movies and a couple bad choices. But it just her career didn't play out the way. I think it should have for a while. Now I feel like she's back. Yeah, she's doing well. This is a great time to remind everyone to watch the wonderful film Morning Glory co-starring. Oh, my God. Julia favorite.

Our No one rom-com. I'm in it too. It's so good. Patrick Wilson is in there. So good. Yeah. The Morning Glory rewatchable is season eight of the rewatchmos. It's really good.

2025. I'm willing. Is it still on Delta? No, it's not. They took it off. Delta, bring it back. Julia, it'll be married to her personal trainer, Aaron Samuels. I really, really want you to want more for me.

Please. I do admit, though, that you know where all the former reality slash bartenders people working away. What do you think I do on Instagram? but like stock people. What's age the best? We mentioned 2004 Lindsay Lohan. I mean, I won't get this, but like that was like Dwight Good in the

1985 on the Mets. Just Dwight good good in 19. Do you get that? Can you explain it to me in a sentence? Cylian word winner, 19 years old. Okay. Seemed like he was going to be just the greatest picture ever. He played for the Mets?

Cocaine next year. Oh, that's too bad. Crater. Okay. Is it an 86 the year that? Yeah, they beat us anyway. Yeah, sorry. Wow, look who knows for now.

Yeah, that was pretty good. He might have missed the championship parade. Okay. It was like, it got bad pretty quick. Okay, that's bad. Another thing that's what stage is the best, we mentioned earlier, but just the Regina George character? Amazing.

Great high school villain? Yes. I mean, all time. She, for me, is the, I mean, she's kind of the start of this movie for me. Lohan's amazing in it, but I think it's telling that Lindsay Lohan originally wanted to play Regina George. Right. And you know why because it's just this, it is an archetypal character.

You and Julietette Shea did a podcast about her for villains. What did you learn from that podcast? That she is like diabolical, but like you want to root for her in a weird way. Because she's like such a fun character. What I learned is that Gretchen Wieners is the true villain of the movie. Oh, is that true? Yeah. She's weak.

She gives Regina her power. And at the end of the movie, Gretchen is the only one who hasn't learned any lessons. and has just glommed on to another group. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. And also she is just, you can't defend anything Gretchen does. I can't blame her, though, because she lost her parents in a car accident and had to live with Bailey and Charlie and everybody. That's so true.

She had a really rough life. Yeah. When you're the youngest kid and you have no parents. It's true. And just the violin. And that's all you have. Regina George, to me, is the legacy of the three heathers and heathers. It's basically like, let's make that character.

better because the original Heather in that movie and then Shannon Doherty's second, the first Heather is basically Regina George, the one who gets killed first. Yeah. I forget what her name is. She was the blonde one. Kim Walker. Yeah. Yeah.

That was Regina George. I haven't seen that movie in a long time. I'm going to rewatch it. I rewatch it about. It's a really good movie. And Slater is definitely like both of them. I mean, it was like star making for each of them. Yeah.

But it's just shocking how much it would not be made today. Great. I can't wait to watch it. How about this? It was more shocking than it kind of was made today with the TV show that they realized. Yeah. I was like, wait, this was a bad idea. Yeah. Another thing that's aged the best of cast.

Yes. You have low hand at her peak, younger Rachel McAdams as she's on her ascent. Lizzie Kaplan, well before she became a thing. Tina Faye, like the best she's been in a movie, I think. Amy Polar. Incredible. Early Amy Polar. Barely on SNL at that point.

incredible Tim Edels. We'll got Tim in a second. Incredible. Just incredible. Amanda Seafreed. Thank you. So you weren't going to mention her as a big one fanatic. She's important.

Yeah. So is her career you're happy with it or you feel like there could have been a tiny bit more? I think she's like she's punching above her weight class. I think she's done a lot with maybe not that much. I agree. Lacey Shea Bear. Just incredible.

Little Claudia. I mean. Such a history with her. Claudia was like definitely. my least favorite Salinger, but I'm just happy to have a Sallinger on the show. We're Salinger, but best seen in the history of the show. When, the Bailey intervention. When she's crying.

And she's like, I loved you the most. I am not supposed to say this, but I loved you the most. Emotional stuff. What a great episode. Another thing that's aged the best. Home schooling jokes. Always enjoyed them. Sorry.

I'm sorry to homeschool. Shame you. But there's just always like, it's a good gimmick at movies. And it always makes me laugh. Well, it also just gives the premise of the movie. It sets it up so neatly because then she can be the outsider and you can do all of the kind of social critique that is what makes this movie last for me. What's age the best for me personally? Maybe not for everybody else.

I just think it always was a great fantasy team name. Army of Skanks. I just like seeing it on the board and then they finally cross it up. It's just funny. It's so like cutthroat vicious. It's really good. It's well done. Nutrition bar sabotage.

That's a really good one. Very funny. And also, I like how it calls it nutrition bars, which are uniformly not good for you. Right. Like, do not rely on nutrition bars. Wait, we're saving this for picking nits later. Janice Ian's look. And she even said this, Lizzie Kaplan, that they position her that way to make her like

she doesn't care about anything. And this is like she stands out. She's an outcast. But then people actually started dressing like Janicean a few years later. And it's actually look. Like the goth look kind of? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a thing. It's come around. The quote, old boyfriends are off limits to friends. That's just the rules of feminism. It's just really funny. It's true. But it's also kind of true.

Old boyfriend should be off limits to friends. Where do you stand on that? Yeah, of course. Did you ever date somebody that one of your friends dated? Oh, I'm sure I did. You never felt great about it. No, it doesn't feel great. Did Zach Barron date one of your friends?

No. Oh, good. So that's good. certainly wouldn't be a friend anymore. No, it's like one of those things. She wasn't invited to the wedding. No, it's one of those things that when you age, you're like, oh, of course, that was a mess. That was absolutely not worth it.

But when you're like 17 and you're just like, this is the person for me, you're a little dumb. So it's good, solid advice. But you maybe have to be older to learn it. I liked her reaction, Gretchen's reaction when she found out that Lindsay Lohan liked Aaron Samuels. Oh, you can't do that. You can't like him. I like Damien when he plays at the talent show and he starts a song and he looks at the piano and he goes,

Don't look at me. And then he thinks beautiful, right? Yes, he does. The Christina Higler song. And then I just think the Hollywood slut rule is really funny. That was the role for years. Like it was when I was in college in the 90s, it was the one day anyone could dress like that. I think that's still the rule.

I think that role persists. Definitely persists. I think there's more than just Halloween. now for that role. Unfortunately. I think we've come up with other days. In terms of rules,

I also like the rules surrounding who can and cannot say Damien, he's almost too gay to function. That also is like only I can be mean about my mom or like

only I can tell Jewish jokes. What else does age the best for you? Anything? For me, it's Regina and the script. And it was interesting. This movie essentially

was kind of my first internet movie where because of when it was released and kind of how Tumblr and meme culture and also just me learning more about those things came together. But this is a really early meme-specific movie for me. Like it's October 3rd or, you know. Which is funny because the memes definitely came a few years later. Yes. And I couldn't tell you why that happened, but it definitely, like the Obama campaign was using Mean Girl memes and it had this second

internet life, which I think is interesting and is somewhat just like a confluence of timing and the audience that it was targeted towards, but also speaks to like how well it was written and how insightful some of the observations are. Anything else age the best for you? No, I think I agree. The Regina George stuff is really good. I think in general, this movie has just aged really well. Yeah, this is the first time I've ever wanted to give it to the whole movie.

But I think this whole movie's age the best. And if there's no cell phones other than that, this movie could come out right now. Yeah, totally. Really good. No cell phones is kind of weird. I had a cell phone then. Well, so that leads us to what's aged the worst. And we'll start with four-way calls, which Craig and Bobby pointed out yesterday in the podcast

producer's office, how there's just nobody would ever have a four-way call now. You would just all be on FaceTime or. Yeah. That's true. It does feel like it's from 100 years ago. I think you would do it's a different way, but you would still find a way to like have a conference call that someone didn't know it's a conference call, basically. Yeah.

I don't think you can do it. Just from my experience with my daughter, like if they're group FaceTime, I don't know how you can't hide in a group Facebook, that's all they would do. That's one reason people like FaceTime is so you can see who like who else is around, basically. The only thing I could think in 2019 would be an email, a group email where there's a blind CC and then they forget the fourth person's on there, which is basically what happened to imagine Johnson. Right. Right. But teens don't use email. What's age the worst?

The soundtrack just isn't good enough. I wanted more from it. I think there's a lot of choices that could have made. This should have been like a great soundtrack that captured like the alternative rock scene that was taking off from 2002 to 4. The killer should have been on it. But I think it just doesn't work. We talk.

We say this every single time. It's a movie targeted at young women. And I always give this rant. It makes me so mad because they underestimate the tastes of young women. And they always think the soundtrack has to sound like a freaking deodorant commercial instead of actually being good. Like they had tight. I mean, it is true that most of like the true music nerds at a young age are boys because

they don't know how to talk to people and instead they just like memorize album stats. But we deserve better music in the movies across the board. It's bad. The best part is when they use Kaleas, when she like sees everything as like a jungle and the milkshakes on. Also like no hip hop at all. Yeah. Like hip hop was by 04 was as massive as anything. Isn't it possible this was a budget problem and they couldn't afford good music?

Well, they only spent 17 million. Yes, but they couldn't spend a lot on music if I had to guess. Bad job by them. Another what's age the worst, I know you love Aaron Samuels, one of my wife's all-time favorites. Zoe Simmons, one of her all-time favorites. His IMDB has aged the worst. I mean, he's Aaron Samu's.

He's just Aaron Samu's. Nothing else happened with him. That's why he was available to be in Ariana Grande's video. Everybody likes him, though. I don't understand what happened. His name is Jonathan Bennett, by the way. I mean, it's the Noah Centineo problem. I wish Noah Centennial well, but he's always going to be Peter Kivinsky.

Like, that's it. Well, until he does the father-son indie movie with Mark Ruffalo. Oh, my Lord. Where their mom died of cancer and they're getting to know each other and they take a road trip. Okay. Oh, you don't think that's happening? I do. I think Mark Ruffalo to just like take a breath.

To take a breath. And Mark Ruffalo and Aaron Samuels take a road trip on motorcycles. That sounds like a great movie. Yeah. Julia and Ruffet. Let's greet that today. Another what's age the worst. the shock casting of Claudia from Party of Five being one of the girls of mean girls

and looking really good an adult in 2004 was like, whoa, what happened? Claudia's grown up now? This is crazy. Now nobody would remember that. That was a thing back in the day. I'm trying to think who the equipment would be now. It would be like if Emily Osmond, who was Miley Cyrus's best friend on Hannah Montana, was like a hot girl in a movie, like something like that.

Or like Millie Bobby Brown five years from now. It was kind of like when Vanessa Hudgens was in. Spring Breakers. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. Which was a while ago now. I still own a lot of Vanessa Hudgensstock.

I think there's an Oscar nomination at some point for her. She was legitimately good. I like her acting. She was legitimately good and rent live. She's a good actor. That was a disaster. Yeah. Another what's age of worse, fetch.

Yeah. Gretchen couldn't make it happen. Never caught on. But the line still lives on. People still lives on. People like stop trying to make X happen all the time. But, oh, that's fair. Yeah.

Okay. Maybe that has an age of worse. Another what's age the worst. Coach Carr step away from the underage girls, which still makes me laugh. It's your favorite scene. It's really great. I just love it. He starts backing up, but nowadays maybe they would not have that scene.

Another what's age the worst, Samantha Ronson's built this way, built this way, which was the song that they keep playing throughout that song with the little guitar. Lindsay Lohan dates her a year later. Right. They end up together. So that's age the worst? Well, it's aged the worst because you hear that song down and you're like, oh, Katie starts dating the person who did the song year later. It just kind of throws me off a little bit with it. Samantha Ronson is so of a time.

The person who we haven't mentioned yet who's also in this cohort is Misha Barton. She's on a very similar trajectory as Lindsay Lohan. O.C. is, yeah, starting that year. Yeah. And it's very, it's like all like such of a specific, like on the brink time. And they all couldn't withstand the paparazzi. With all respect to the OC, one of the great shows. of our time. And with all knowledge of the love that you two have for it, and I do as well,

I think that Misha Barton particularly is perhaps missing a certain talent aspect that we might associate with 2004 Lindsay Lohan, which is not to say that she is untalented, but that she might be less talented than the very talented Lindsay Lohan. She's definitely less talented, but she could have been so much more. All right. Bill's offended. First of all, how dare you? I did so much preamble. I did so much. How dare you? I did. So much respectful for you. Misha Barton in season two of the O.C. was like one of the most beautiful people who's ever been on TV.

She's unbelievably beautiful. And it's an American tragedy. I agree. I also agree that it's an American tragedy. I'm talking about acting as a skill. You know? People have talent. In a different world.

In a different world, she's married to Prince Harry, not Megan Marco. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She could have been a princess. I love it. I reject this. Absolutely not.

Could have been her. No. She could have been the star suits married to Prince Harry. Megan Marco, Markle, marker correction. That is, no, that's absolutely not. So my head is exploding, thinking about it. No. She was great.

Okay. I'm a free Marissa T-shirt that I'll be wearing next week. I also, I don't want to disrespect Mesa Barton. No, you did. You did. And we have it on video and on audio. I just don't think that she is like our greatest actress or our greatest activist. She's a hell of an actress.

That's all I'm saying. Cultural icon. Calvin actress. That's fine. She is a cultural icon. I wish her all the best, which normally means that I don't give a shit about her. But in this case, it means that I do want the best for her. Well, she'll be coming back into our lives on June 24th. Okay. Should have been nominated for an Emmy. What else has aged the best or what's age the worst? This never sat right with me. Katie dumbing herself down to win over Aaron Samuels. I thought it was a flaw of the movie. I think there's a way to maybe you high. that you're good at math, but I just never sat right with me. Well, it's kind of interesting because the movie, I think, pretty well,

toes the line between satire and then teaching lessons. Good point. And, you know, at the end, we should talk about that last speech, which I kind of don't think totally fits with the tone of the rest of the movie. But the movie is trying to both explain and critique the social system of high school and also give young girls a guideline for a better way to do it. And I think that they're doing, using that as an example of what not to do. Because ultimately, she doesn't, you know, she gets her scores back up and joins some athletes.

And the ultimate lesson is like being smart is cool. So I agree that maybe it doesn't. I think it's more being yourself. I don't know if being smart is cool. I think she just could have lied about it. I don't know if she actually had to like tank like the Knicks trying to get Zion. Well, she never been in school before. Like some, wait, I have a sub-knit.

Those dumbass homeschools. Wait, but sub-knit pick. But part of the reason she had to lie is because Aaron Samill's is just like staring at her paper every single time. Where I went to school, they really did not let you share grades. Yeah. I agree. They regulated it. I have a long history of letting boys copy my math homework. And let me tell you.

Okay. Didn't get me anywhere. So I think she made the right call. Anything else stage the worst for either of you? Just extending the kind of the coach underage plot line, which, you know, it. They make a joke out of it, but it's also an uncomfortable joke. And there are a few kind of uncomfortable jokes in this with respect to various high school stereotypes and racial, which like there's an awareness.

They're trying to make them a joke, but you're also kind of laughing at a joke that you don't feel great about. I think. Yeah, fair. I think the other thing that never sat completely right with me was the jungle references when she'd be like in the jungle. Yeah, in Africa, that's how we do this. It's just like, I don't think you should be like. in Africa, which is a giant continent. And it's not like it's an entire

Sahara Desert. It's like, you know, a very, like Africa is a very full place. Yeah. But, you know, many countries. I think that one's not great. I go with four-way calls for what stage is the worst. They don't have them anymore. It seems like it's from another era.

I know, but isn't that like interesting? I don't know. I don't know. Actually, like, learning about other times. I'm going with the basic insensitivities that are kind of like the coach plowline and all that stuff. It's just, it's like, it's not the best part of the movie. It hasn't aged to that.

Then we lose Coach Carr step away from the underage girls. I don't know how I feel about this. I'm sorry. Mine is referring to Africa as a singular place. Okay. Speaking of what's age the best, we gave this its own category. We had the Vivian Award for Best Clothes in a movie that we started during the Pretty

Women rewatchables as requested. Yeah, thank you. By Amanda, which is a great idea. Thank you. Now you want to do the reverse vivian for worse clothes because this is not the wardrobe in this movie is a little rough. It was right before things started to, they started to push the envelope and it's the last vestige of the 90s and there's a lot of stuff going on here. It's horrible. And I think part of the reason it's horrible is because it hits really close to home.

Totally. Because I was a couple years older than these young women when this movie came out. And like that pink ruffled skirt that Lindsay Lohanna is wearing when she strides when they're striding down post. kind of transformation. I know I had a garment like that. And just looking at it makes me so sad. The wide-banded miniskirt,

like wide waistband miniskirt, which hers is a variation of, was really popular from like 2003 and 2005 and was a terrible look that only look good on Lindsay Lohan and Misha Barton and no one else should have tried to copy. I would argue that it didn't look great on Lindsay, but that's okay.

Yeah, she was uncomfortable in it, which I think was maybe intentional. And I think they're also, they're supposed to look a little ridiculous in this movie. It's supposed to be commenting on them as plastics as well. I texted Juliet last night at like 10-15 and being like, why are they all wearing high heels to school? And they're not even like, they're either wearing kitten heels and or like working girl style pumps, which I don't know what that is.

I have never seen a high school or wear that. I remember going to Nordstrom for the first time my freshman year of college and like buying pumps kind of like that like in red. And I just like it gave me a terror flashback. Me too. I got a couple more things. We got to talk about Lindsay Lohan's makeup, which is extremely accurate in terms of high school girls feeling like they need to wear a lot of makeup. And then, like, really just putting that eyeliner on and just going with it.

But it just made me feel for all of the high school girls still experimenting with makeup today. You got to get it wrong a lot before you get it right. What about her bangs? You act like I'm not living this right now. This is a running pipeline. Some of us are still there. Running pot line in the Simmons House. I'm still learning about making myself.

What are you doing, Zoe? Yeah, it's tough. Is that eye shadow? What's going on? Oh, God. When Lindsay Lohan's wearing that blue eye shadow, like in the gym scene, it's really, really tough. A lot of trial and air with teenage girls in makeup. Oh, definitely.

I mean, how else do you learn, though. Yeah, that's how you learn. The worst is when you get tricked by the product. They're supposed to be like all over your face. You use on your lips. He's on your cheeks. It's never a good idea. Avoid those.

I've got one more. When she hosts the party and she's wearing the black dress. The black dress with the pink top. And then she also. So, like, really did her, like, cocktail party makeup look. Yeah. Very tough. That dress reminded me of, like, what everyone wanted to wear in a prom, basically.

Yeah. And that's supposed to be the point, right? Because she's fully transformed into a plastic, and she is supposed to be trying too hard and doing too much. But she is trying too hard and doing too much. So what's the winner? For me, it's the party dress. I think for me it's the short skirt and, like, and, like, Henley top when she's in school.

Oh, God. I really hate that one, too. Oh, yeah. Very ugly. Could Lindsay Lohan, if her career works out right and nothing bad happens and it's just a nice arc, could she have done Pretty Woman if Pretty Woman was 20 years later, like age 23? Interesting. I just kind of feel like no.

I feel like a lot of her power was in playing like more like suburban people who kind of like... I don't know if she would have gotten the physical comedy that Julie Roberts had. Yeah. I also, like we said, I think even as a teen... there is an edge to Lindsay Lohan, like the possibility of a mean girl within her, which is why she can do this movie. But you kind of need the opposite for Pretty Woman.

You need... That's fair. A hard exterior and a soft center, and she's the opposite. Hey, if you're a podcast of movie fan like we are, check out Luminary. They launched a bunch of great original shows you can only find on their platform, including a spinoff of our show. A little brief spin-off series called The Rewatchables,

929 to Sex, some of the best and most entertaining movies from 1999, which was a great year in film. A lot of the categories, like we do this here, including most rewatchable scene, best quote, all that stuff. But then another new category about how this movie fit into 1999 and try to tie it a whole bunch.

So we're doing American Pie, Office Space, The Matrix, a bunch of other classics. They also have a bunch of other brand new, exclusive podcasts, like Poetics with Omari Hart. Hardwick. He's from power. It's a new podcast to invite you inside the minds and lyrics of the biggest names in hip-hop and the culture. The Luminary app, free to download, listen to it, thousands of podcasts, including some ringer ones that are on there on the free side of it, enhanced by an easy-to-use interface, personalized content recommendations. Get your first two months of access to Luminary's premium content for free. What? when you sign up at luminary.link slash rewatch. So first two months of access for free,

you can hear the first eight episodes of rewatchables 1999. After that, at 799 per month, luminary.com slash rewatch for two months of free access, luminary.com slash rewatch. Cancel any time. Terms apply. All right, half-assed. Oh, let's do casting what-ifs.

Ooh. Low-hand and McAdams, originally audition for the opposite roles. It's a good what-if. That is a good what-if. This movie could have just happened with Rachel McAdams. I think she's a little too old.

Yeah. To be the homeschooled Katie as a junior. Yeah. Never would have believed she was homeschooled. So she, I think she was 25. You said 27. She was 25 in this movie,

which is still 25, you kind of are who you are at that point. Yes. We were getting there. Lindsay Lohan wanted to play Regina. She said, I had just played in confessions of a teenager.

I'm a queen in Freaky Friday, not the cool girl in school. I was still 17. I wanted to be the cool girl on set. So I had a war with the director and he said, no, Katie is the heroin and that's who you are. She decided to buy in. I like that even in 17. She's like, I want to be. She really was Regina, Regina, the irony of this movie. Great actress then. Consider for the role Aaron Samuels, James Franco. Oh, wow. He would have been good. It would have been a different type of Aaron Samuels,

but he would have been good. The darker, Aaron Samuels. Less jocky. Yeah. Oh, maybe. Anna's really like three for a loop. Well, because it just, Aaron Samuels is adorable in this movie. It is like a zero. Yeah. And he just like takes up no presence, which I was thinking last night about how,

and this is funny that you're going to make us talk about Tim Meadows. But for me, the men in this movie don't exist. They just like don't take up any room. And that's great because it's a movie about girls and how girls function in high school. But if you throw Franco in, he takes up a little space and he kind of changes the energy of the movie.

And I don't think it's, necessarily bad. I think he would kind of play up the satire aspects, which would be good. Well, we also know what would have happened off the set. Right. Yes. But then there's that. So now we would feel bad about watching the movie. Along with it lasted Franco and Lohan. Like eight weeks? Never would have been a official. Come on. That would have been an unofficial fling. It would have got Perez Hilton would have really mean 2004. Perez Hilton would have gone in town of that one. On that from Perez Hilton. Somebody who lost the part of Regina George, Alicia Cuthbert. Oh.

Oh, wow. She's in another one of my favorite. Another one of my favorites. You know who will be devastated to learn that? Zach Barron. Alicia Cooper's number one bad. Oh, yeah. Sean Fantasy also loves her too.

Heraldack store is a great teen movie. I just watched the last half of it last thing when I couldn't fall asleep. It's good. The juice is worth the squeeze. I forgot Paul Danos in it. Oh, yeah. He's part of the tripod. She's also, I mean, Jack Bauer's daughter, wandering in the woods for an entire episode. I don't know.

That would have been interesting. No, it's protect. No, it's perfect the way it is. But I don't think that. It's a disaster if she's... Has she ever played like a mean person? I can't think of her. She's always likable.

I feel like her career could have been better. I think that she's... For where I wanted it to be. I really thought for five years there. I was all in. I don't think she's liked enough by enough women. That's my take. Oh, she hit that danger zone.

Yes. Too hot. It's not that you dislike her. But you don't rude for her. Yeah, that's tough. She just, I don't think about her. You know, she's not speaking to my intro. This is the brilliance of Emma Stone.

Hits everybody. Yeah, that's true. Really hard to do. She was so good in the favorite. I mean, all three of them were. Yeah. I just feel like forever. She can get everyone behind her.

But I've already liked her. That's all I have for casting what ifs. Before we do Dian Waiters, I want to do the Saul Rubinick They New Award for overacting. Okay. Because the nominees are Kevin G. Yes, yes.

Math captain. Yes. I'm just throwing this out here now. Amy Polar. Take it back. No. Yeah. I'm putting it on there.

I'm putting it on there. I'm putting it up there. No. I disagree. She might have ramped it up two speeds too high. I'm not looking for subtlety in the cool mom. Come on. She could have scaled it back.

This is my hottest take of the podcast. Maybe reel it in about 10%? No. No. No. No. I think those lines like I'm a cool mom is probably. top three quotes from that movie.

Yeah, definitely. She's really created, in like a very short amount of time, she just created a whole reference point and archetype for a type of person. Okay. That was hurtful. A lot of insults being thrown on this podcast. It's kind of scaled it back 10%.

So we're giving it to Kevin G. I have another candidate. Damien, a little bit too much for me. Oh, that's good one. I think he's... That's good. He does kind of ramp it up. When he's handing out the carnations and stuff,

I just like, it's a little much. The candy canes? I mean the flowers on, or yeah, the candy canes. They did carnations in my high school too, which is why I was like, yeah. Same for Valentine's Day. Yeah, I'm going with Kevin G just because when I was talking about how there aren't any men in this movie taking up space, he's definitely trying to, and I just block him out. I just don't acknowledge him in this movie. It is funny when he rips his t-shirt in half after they win the mat.

I don't like Kevin G. Sorry. I kind of like Kevin G too. Okay. My worst high school impulses are coming out right now. I think you're right with Damien. It's too much. He dialed it up a notch.

Yeah. He makes me laugh. He says funny things. In my heart, it's polar, but I'm not going to pick that because you guys. The internet rejects that. You guys made me feel bad. Dionne Waiter's Award. Best heat check in the movie.

Nominees, Amy Paula, Tim Meadows. I got one more. Okay. Amanda Safreed. She's good. I think she's so good. She doesn't, they don't give her that much to do. And every time she just shows up and is like, she is not a totally a spacey idiot.

in real life. She has like a lot of energy. Just like watch her in Mamma Mia. She's a lot. And she really just made a choice and is extremely funny. It's funny when she's playing sports in the beginning and the ball just hits her right in the chest. Like she's like a seal or something. The ESPN moment when she can be.

ESPN is the all type of red line. Yeah. I'm personally going with Tim Meadows, but I know that's not a popular choice. I think Tim Meadows, I don't understand why he's not a bigger star after seeing him this. Every scene he's in, he's really funny. They need him. It's not a great character. It could have gone badly.

Mm-hmm. And he's just really funny in this. I think I'm on board. He's really good. And also his relationship with Tina Fey is very funny in the movie of Miss Norbury and... He has great lines. Like, even like, I did not leave the South Side for this. Like, he's just really funny.

He's funny in the gym scene. I, watching last night, I was like, oh, this is funny. He also, he sells probably the worst written character in a very convincing way. I think he does a lot with a little in this movie. Yeah. Could have gone bad. Yeah, I agree. I'm on board at that.

Thank you. Okay. I'm still going with a bad to save. Okay. We can disagree. Half-Fest internet research. For some reason, Mean Girls Day was adopted as October 3rd and is apparently like really a thing. Yes.

Certainly on the internet. Yeah. I didn't even know about this. Yeah. The original title this movie was? What? Hom schooled. Oh, yeah.

Mean Girls is better. Me and Girls is way better. Home school sounds like a Netflix movie, though. there's yeah maybe well it probably will be sorry we're talking about yeah he's like 27 he's still in high school there's a couple oral histories about me and girls one of them Tina Faye said when I first pitched it to Lauren I was thinking I'd like to write a movie about what they call relational aggression among girls he was like okay but could they also still have cool that's a terrible Lauren Michaels person he was like okay but could they also have cool cars and cool clothes

and I was like, for sure. Lord Michaels. Yeah. He just wins and keeps winning. I think that, like, one thing that is interesting, we haven't really talked about, is that the plastics are also, like, the rich girls, which is definitely a thing that happens in high school. You know, there's that line.

She has two fendiperses and a silver Lexus, which definitely happens. And people do glam on to signs of conspicuous wealth. Yeah. I mean, the north shore of Chicago is like a whole thing. I mean, there's all the different Chicago suburb. verbs have like, you know, obviously overwrought and, like, simplified, like, different personalities. And the North Shore is known for being, like, very ritsy.

And this plays into it and whatnot. And then when I was in college, like, either as, like, a sign of embarrassment or a badge of honor, people were like, I went to the high school and Mean Girls was based on. I hung out at the old Orchard mall all the time. And or they were like, yeah, I went to that high school. Like, it was like one or the other and nothing really in between. I forgot to do for what stage the best hanging out in malls because I think, I think that's back. I've been telling you guys.

I knew you were going to say that. Mals are back. Do you want to know how this movie went from an R to a PG-13? Sure. There's some inappropriate language. Does it have to do with Coach? What's his face? No.

In the scene where Katie was asked if her muffin was buttered, the line was originally going to be as your cherry popped. Oh. They flipped that. The same one for a girl who made out with a hot dog was originally masturbated with a hot dog. They flipped that. Okay. And we were good. PG-13.

Cool. There you go. I don't know that we lost that much. No. Don't feel like we lost a lot. Okay. Actually, more subtle that way. It's better.

Tim Meadows broke his hand before shooting, had to wear a cast. That's how we had the carpal tunnel thing. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Makes sense because why the fuck did he have a cast on? It's completely logical. How many years older was Amy Poorer than Rachel McAdams when they filmed this movie?

Five. Four. Seven. Amanda Seafried said, I just graduated high school. It was terrifying. I don't know. I would have done without Lacey Shea Baer.

She was my angel. She took me in and we'd hang out in her trailer and listen to Dido. Oh, my God. Amazing. Well, that's there. She wins for me. Unbelievable. Halfass internet research always wins.

Oh, another PG-13 thing. The scene in which Katie walks in on Jason and Gretchen kissing at her party, much different in the script, she walks in on Gretchen performing oral sex on Jason, subsequently cut from the final print. That's half-assed. I don't know if that's true. find it hard to believe they would have put a blowjob scene in me girls. It just doesn't seem like part of the tone of the movie.

Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't fit into the movie. Also, Gretchen's like weirdly asexual. I just don't see that one. Seafreed. Seafried. It also said one of her favorite scenes is when the little chihuahua is

biting nipples off Amy Polar, Ridge McAdams, ads in the sorrel history. They pinned a piece of a cocktail wiener into her bra. We thought the dog was going to tear her apart. Smart. So that's how you get a chihuahua to eat somebody's breast. I always thought her boobs looked fake in that movie, and perhaps that's why. I think, I assumed they were. Because there's that whole lied about how they're implants and their heart is a rock.

So I assumed that they were going for it. Okay. So they were going for that. We know about the Mean Girls play, premiered on Broadway. My wife and daughter went to it recently. They absolutely loved it. The daughter was fantastic. I want to see it.

The flip side of this. Did you know there was a direct-to-video sequel? called Mean Girls 2. I didn't. That it premiered on ABC Family on January 23rd, 2011. What happens in Mean Girls 2 and who's at it? Pretending it didn't happen. Okay.

I feel like Mean Girls and Musical probably good because Tina Fey was involved. Yeah. In late September 2014, discussions arose that Lohan had pitched an idea to Fay for a sequel. Yeah, she's still on the road with this when she was doing press for. Brow. anniversary in December 2016 also said still really trying to make the sequel. She'd written a treatment for the film.

Oh, dear. How much did you pay to read that? She knew everyone was busy, but she said I'll keep forcing it and pushing on them until we do it. Who from this? Please know. Yeah. Please know. Who do you think is the hardest to book from this cast?

Rachel McAdams. I don't know. She hasn't had a hit in a while. What's she up to? She's doing like, I'm sorry. She's doing interesting movies. She's in spotlight.

She was like making out with Rachel Bites and disobedience, which I also would love to do that. I'm going to go with Amy Poehler. I think she's probably the hardest. She's my take. JMT. Well, she'd have to run it by her all female company. Did you read that story? Certainly did.

Yeah. Apex Mountain. Okay. Lindsay Lohan. Yes. Undeniable. Undeniable. All time.

Unanimous. 100% approval rating. It's the highest peak. Anyone may have ever reached on their apex mountain. This is, there's never been a more obviously. We could almost call this the Lindsay Loheo Mean Girls Apex Mountain. Tina Faye? 30 Rock.

Still on SNL. Still doing Weekend Update. Wright's Mean Girls has an incredible amount of power that then allows her to do 30 Rock. Yeah, but she's doing 30 Rock. and Sarah Palin at the same time. And she literally swung an election. Sarah Palin's bigger. You're right.

Good call. Everybody else, I don't know. No. Poe or no. Tim Meadows? Maybe. Tim Meadows? Maybe Tim Meadows.

What about the ladies' bands? Enough, though. Seafried, no. Nacy Shea. No. This are Party of Five. It's Party of Five. It's Party of Five.

What's actually? But, like, I love her and I have enjoyed her whole career. I would say wedding crashers because. This is so much bigger than her. but I mean, Wedding Crashers is the third one. So by the end of the trilogy of this notebook Wedding Crashers, she has so much career power at that point, which she squandered a little bit.

Amanda, when you were in college, how much time did you spend with your friends at a laptop rewatching her onstage kiss with Ryan Gosling from the MTV Movie Awards? I don't know. Definitely rewatched it. It was like still when you had like a dot MOV file in an email. Yeah. I definitely watched it.

I'm not sure. That was a really important text for me and my college roommates. I mean, I remember they stay on, they're on opposite sides of the stage and they like stride to each other. Oh, man. And then like do that. It was definitely a moment. I know what it looks like.

Very important to a generation of women. The Joey pants a word for best that guy. I think it's probably Damien, right? Isn't he just Damien for Mean Girls? I think it maybe is the woman. I don't even know that guy's name. I think it's the woman who ended up in the Ariana Grande video who was like, Regina's George said X was cool.

So I did blah, blah, blah, whatever that line is. Sort of like the nerdy girl. Amanda, you're the tiebreaker. Oh, I think it would be Damien. I think he's just Damien. I think he walks around and people go, Damien! I mean, poor Aaron Tables.

Yeah. I made everyone sad. Sorry. We did like 20 minutes of jokes about that. Just feel like now we're just going back. Okay. You might be listening. He's Juliet's trainer.

I'm going to be like, well, I don't want to put anything on the rocks here. Julie, we get a text around. I don't want to jinx it, but Aaron Samuel and I are going for drinks after my training session. That's so going to happen. That would be the best. If you dated Aaron Samuels, that would be the highlight of my year. Because I just can't stop winning. I can't stop winning Boston titles, so I need other highlights.

Oh my God. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Awesome guy. Speaking of titles, Voodoo. Streaming up library of over 150,000,000 titles.

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This is my wife who loves this movie and has seen it more times than anyone I know. She can't believe Regina George fell for the Carlteen Bar thing. Oh, that's a great point. She just can't believe it. No, it's right. She's like, what person A, doesn't know about those bars, B, would think that there's a weight loss bar, and then C would not put two and two together as they're gaining weight and not wondering what happened. I mean, it's the whole thing, right? She thinks it's the biggest flaw in the movie.

That's very true. But they try to make a plotline of it. It's like there's also that thing when she asks what percent of fat is in the calories or whatever. And then Katie has to do the math. And then she's like, I'm going to get cheese fries. And then, you know, the famous is butter or carb. Right. So they're trying to position her as someone who doesn't know about this stuff or is just dumb.

But it is true that any teenage Regina George would have all of this stuff memorized, would know everything. Especially Regina George. Yeah. I feel like she would be. Which is like it's also like it's screwed up in its own way because women have to learn that stuff from like at early age. There's a good passage in Bridget Jones about how she just like has calorie counts memorized like multiplication tables. But Regina George definitely would. I agree with this.

It's like that moment in Clueless when she's like, I'm such a heifer. I had like a handful of M&Ms. Like women like that are very conscious of it. Yeah. This was my nitpick. My wife disagreed. We argued about it. Okay.

How did Katie win the prom queen after the burnbook debacle? It's explained in the movie as half the kids thought she pushed Regina George in front of a bus and that's why she won. I still don't think she wins. She started the whole burnbook debacle. They were blaming her. I think what also doesn't make sense is she wasn't supposed to. to be at homecoming. Like she,

I think people, like, knew she was, like, out of the scene. So, like, why would you vote for, like, an ineligible candidate? Well, I think it tracks because even when in the gym scene, Regina stands up and it's like, why do we have to be here? And there's that line where it's like, please raise your hand if you have been personally victimized by Regina George. And, like, the joke is every single person in the gym, including the teachers, raise their hand.

Yeah. So, and that's after the burn. Well, I guess Katie hasn't admitted it yet, but you can, that's just a demonstration of how afraid everyone is of Regina. So it's a rejection of Regina. This is a rejection vote. It's like how Trump won. That's exactly. Yeah.

Sorry. Wow. I agree. It's what it is. People do stupid stuff. So Mayor Pete's going to win in 2020. Oh, boy. This is a personal picking nit pick.

How did Kevin G. and Janice Ian get thrown together at the end. It's just so ridiculous. It's two people that would never interact, ever. Can we talk about the ending? Can we talk about the last scene? Sure. It's too neat and too high school PSA.

They want to give a happy ending, but suddenly Tina Fey and Tim Meadows are together, and it's like, well, guys, that's not workplace appropriate. And it's not. In 2004, they weren't even thinking about that. Well, I know. It hasn't aged very well. I mean, also, like, this speech that Katie gives at the end,

sucks. That is just, it's like imported from a different hallmark movie. That should have been on what stage is the worst for us? I mean, I think it definitely has. I think Tina Faye was definitely just worn out by the script at that point. Yeah. On autopilot ready at speech. And I think that they probably got pressure to like turn it into something. Like a happy ending. To not Heather's it, right? To make it something that people could relate to. So, but the whole ending is just that that that gym scene sucks. I agree. However, I think that. Kit Lohan looks so, so pretty in that final scene. And she's in the math lead outfit.

I'm just like happy for her. We forgot to mention the mustache on her competitor. That was that, uh, in the final scene. The frazzled girls is sad. Yeah. I thought it was funny. I know. I am mean spirited, so I thought it was funny.

Why didn't the school have a better crosswalk system? Great question. Also, who drives a bus that fast? A school bus. Yeah. What's going on there? The school bus driver is terrorizing the school is flying through the crosswalk.

It doesn't make any sense. Also, it was completely empty. Like, why was she there? That didn't make sense either. Yeah, but that's like the Heather's vibe of the movie. This movie is like part Heather's and part after school special. And it normally like merges them pretty well. But that's just one of the Heather's aspects of it.

Any other nitpicks? Seemed a little easy to break the tiara, that plastic. Yeah, that's true. Didn't buy it. I mean, that's the one good part is like they bring the plastics back. and it's like extremely on the nose but okay, yeah. My nitpick is just the ending.

Okay. Best quote, old boyfriends are off limit to friends. That's just the rules of feminism. I feel like I have to include this. Wow, Damien, you've truly outgayed yourself. The big Lizzie Kaplan quote of that whole movie. We probably haven't celebrated her enough.

No, we're still right here. She's really good in that movie. I think the reason I mentioned the Damien, he's almost too gay to function line, is because she hits it, She hits the note in a way that it's hard to do and it then makes it feel not offensive when yes, it is an offensive line.

But it's her best friend and that's, it's the relationship they have. So I'm fine with it. It's just funny. I like the way they interact is like good. Believe her pain. Like you can under, like as a grouchholder,

I really get it. And, you know, I thought she's really good in this movie. She's going to come up and who won the movie, even though she doesn't win. Because her, her advanced metrics in this movie are really high. Every scene she's in and she's really good in.

She is really good and she makes an impact and she's just like very believable. I like her a lot. Also, she's had one of those careers that kind of everybody likes her, but she's not that famous. Yeah. But everybody's kind of in like, like, oh yeah, Lizzie Kaplan. I really like her. She's just entered that zone. Yeah, she's out of very high approval rating.

Yeah, high approval rating. Gretchen stopped trying to make fetch happen. You love him. And he totally compliment you. That is so fetch. Gretchen, stop trying to make fetch happen. It's not going to happen. I gave him everything.

I was a half virgin. It's like I have ESPN or something. I'm kind of psychic. I have a fit. What do you mean? It's like I have ESPN or something. My breasts can always tell when it's going to rain. I love that one.

That's why our hair is so big. It's full of secrets. Very good. I'm sorry that people are so jealous of me, but I can't help it. Then I'm popular. I'm kind of psychic. I have a fifth sense. I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone eat and be happy.

The follow-up line to that is she doesn't even go here. I wish that I could bake a cake made out of rainbows and smiles and we'd all eat and be happy. She doesn't even go here. Do you even go to this school? No. I just have a lot of feelings. I feel like that has lived on. So what's your quote?

I got to add, I'm not a regular mom. I'm a cool mom. mom. I just want you to know if you need anything, don't be shy, okay? There are no rules

in this house. Not like a regular mom. I'm a cool mom. Right, Regina? Please stop talking. Okay. Which comes up a lot.

And on Wednesdays, we wear pink, which has kind of taken on a life of its own. And... So what's the icon of quote from the movie? Get in loser.

We're going shopping. We also got a add down in. I think it's Gresh and stop trying to make that chop happen. Yeah, I agree. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? 100% yes.

Could, yes. Should, no. Are you sure? You want it? You wouldn't watch the first episode. Me? They remade Mean Girls. It's a new show.

It's 2020 Mean Girls. You wouldn't watch this. I mean, I would obviously watch it, but. Julia, it's blind. I don't need to know anything else. No, no, let's talk about it. No, hold that. Okay, Julie, all right, all right.

Come on, have some standards. I'm sorry. don't have that manor right now. I just don't. Here's my thing. She does watch Vanderpumpurals. I'm wearing a Milderl's t-shirt right now. I'm told it's great.

Tom, Tom. That's good one, actually. Thanks, I bought it from Tom Shorts' Instagram. It's really good. No, so here's my thing. If they're making a version, like a smart teen version of Mean Girls, and it's to the standard of this movie, yes.

If they're doing another Netflix thing where it's like kissing booth and they just, like, made an ABC family show for kids, for teens, I don't know that I would watch all of it. It's like, we need like the bold type treatment. Yeah, we need a bold type treatment. Do you know about the bull type? His wife loves it. Okay, all right.

Who am I married to? Please watch the bold type if you don't know about it. She's also on Team Sutton. Okay. Listen, I'm just saying. I'm saying you are too. I love Team Sutton. We just got to give Kat some space.

Yeah, I was saying that like you are also on it. Yeah, okay, that's true. But I just, Julianne and I did a recap of Bulls podcast about the bold type recently, and Julia was a little harsh to cat, and I'm just trying to make a little space for her. If they called it Mean Girls 2020, I think it would work. I feel like that has like an election vibe, like the Tracy Flick. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Yeah. Probably unanswerable questions. I only have one. Was Regina George, did she become an all-American lacrosse porn college? Yes or no? I think yes. And she definitely goes somewhere in the Neskak. There's no question about that.

Oh, I see. I thought she would Duke. I was thinking Duke for her. Oh, interesting. Maybe she just goes to Northwestern best women's lacrosse school. Go catch. Is that true? Yeah, they won like five years in a row.

Wow. It is funny how take all of your mean girl stuff and fuel it into sports is a funny lesson from this movie, which isn't necessarily inaccurate. I just see her thriving at like Williams with her lacrosse with her lacrosse. Williams. That's just where she's going. It's like in the middle of the woods. She could dominate. Duke is the right call.

Yeah. Because you can't totally leave all of your Regina George behind. Sure. It is really North Western. She would have gone there too. This is a probably answerable question. Lindsay Lohan and Aaron Samuels, did they break up Halloween or Thanksgiving? Thanksgiving.

Thanksgiving when everybody came back? Yeah, she finally gets the note to dress slutty for Halloween. She goes to meet him for like an on-campus party. They make it through that holiday. They have a huge fight on Halloween. Yeah, and then at Thanksgiving, they just call a quits. There's some party at Gretchen's house. Yeah, yeah.

They've both moved on. Who won the movie? One of you wants to say Rachel McGaubhams. I do think it's Rachel McGaubhouse. I do. I do. I do. Low hand at her peak,

I still think it's McAdams. Because she, it launches her. I mean, it's certainly her apex. I just think Rachel McAdams comes out of nowhere.

She's amazing in it. She creates like an all-time character and has a career from it. This is the movie, though, that Lohan comes out of it and people are like, that's Elizabeth Taylor for this generation. Yeah.

And then it actually kind of all the bad parts of Elizabeth Taylor happened and none of the good parts. Not even the two Richard Burton marriages. Yeah. Literally none of the good stuff. It is like if all the bad stuff hadn't happened to her, I do wonder like what her arc would have been.

Right. You know, because Julie Roberts, which we've talked about on this podcast many times, who's the guy she married, Danny Motor? What did he do? He's like a camera guy. Camera guy? Yeah.

Just married a regular dude and she was good. Yeah. Maybe that could have happened for a lohan. It's all about the civilians. Got to find a regular guy. Well, this is really fun, guys. Ladies. This was great.

I said guys. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Last thoughts? No, it's just a great movie. Lohan, I weep for who you were in 2004. Can I ask you one question? Yeah.

At what age does this movie start resigning with people? Like, is your daughter? Oh. So it clicks. Like age seven. Wow. Yeah, age seven or eight. I mean, that's pretty amazing.

I feel like you have particularly precocious children. I mean, you do, but still. I think they get it early. Ben Simmons really likes this movie. That's a great movie. Yeah. He's a fan. Do you think of all the movies you've covered on the rewatchables?

Would you say it's like a top five or top ten age of the best? It hasn't been as long as some of them, but I just feel like it really holds up. This is the last thing we should talk about. It is funny how certain movies are just become timeless and that's it. So like Zoe's kids, if she has kids someday, like 25 years from now or something, I still feel like they would watch this movie. She'd be like, I can't wait to watch Mean Girls and my kids, which is how my wife was like after this movie came out.

It's like, if I ever have a daughter, we're going to watch Mean Girls. And I do feel like this is going to live on. There's not a lot of movies like that. Like Princess Bride, I think, is like that. But it's a shorter list than you think. Clueless is like that. I think when they capture social dynamics that, like, transcend a certain time period is when they really resonate.

And even a certain situation. I mean, this is a spot on high school movie, but like the concept of Mean Girls and Regina George can be applied to pretty much any walk of life at any age. And even to some men, it can kind of, you know, Regina George's and plastics in the world. There's some sort of smart version of this movie for this generation about political correctness that I think somebody will make

over the next three years. That could be really good. That will parody a lot of the PC super left stuff. I don't think Tina Fey will be writing that one. No, I don't think so either. But that is sitting there for somebody in Philly. Agreed. Anyway, hey, thanks to Julia and Amanda.

Thanks, Bell. Thanks to Voodoo. Over 150,000 titles available to rent or buy over 8,000 Titus. You can watch for free in their ad support on-demand service. You can check out all the vacation movies right now. You can check out semi-pro reservoir dogs, a whole bunch of them. Head to voodoo.com slash rewatchables to sign up and start watching today, v-U-d-com. And don't forget about rewatchables 99 on Luminary, or the three of us, actually,

we'll be covering cruel intentions. Get ready. Geez. We're going to have to have a couple of drinks for that one. I'm fired up. Are you fired up for the Ryan Felipe, Reese Witherspoon conversation? We've been waiting to have for three years. Can we talk about Bitter's Sweet Symphony?

I'm excited to talk about Salma Blair. Oh, man. The clothes, the real estate. I'm so excited. Oh, yeah. This is really a bend diagram of all your interests. The real estate is so good in cruel intentions. All right.

We'll see you in a couple weeks here on this feed, but then check out rewatchable as night to that. well thank you