The Rewatchables - ‘Misery’ With Bill Simmons and Brian Koppelman

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Brian Koppelman are the no. 1 fans of Rob Reiner’s ‘Misery,’ starring James Caan and Kathy Bates and based on the novel by Stephen King. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From the host that brought you to Coding Westworld. And Westworld, the recapables, comes the Ringer Prestige TV podcast on Westworld. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Danny Hyfitts. And I'm David Shoemaker. Welcome to Westworld Season 4 in the Prestige TV podcast feed, where we're going to break down every episode of Westworld season 4.

Every Monday, the day after the show comes out on the Prestige TV podcast feed. Wherever we get your podcast, but get them on Spotify. This episode is brought to you. by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly.

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply.

Services not available in all areas. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast Network, where occasionally you could find Brian Coppoman. He's super busy now. He's writing a bunch of scripts. We're going to talk about just one of the best Stephen King movies that's ever been made. I'm excited to talk about it with you, Mr. Man. Misery is next.

Somewhere in the middle of nowhere, America's number one author, just met his number one fan. I think Paul Sheldon might be in some kind of trouble. You must be a good man. He could never have created such a wondrous loving creature as Misery Chastain. Very kind. She loves everything he's ever written. Oh, Paul.

What a poet you are. Until now. How could you? Annie. You murdered my misery! directed by Rob Reiner. Whatever you think I'm not doing it. Please don't.

From the novel by Stephen King. Trust me. It's for the best. God, I love you. Misery, rated R. Start Friday, November 30th at Select Theater. All right, Brian Koppelman is here. You sick, twisted fuck.

That scene is unbelievable. I just watched him get this word. Honestly, you're such a cockat duty. You are. Our friend Goldman wrote this movie. it is just so unlike any movie that would ever get made now. It's like a Broadway play sprung to life. There's only really seven characters in it, two barely talk.

It's one-on-one game with James Conn and Kathy Bates' characters. Everything is mostly taking place in one room. I don't know how this movie works. I don't know why it's still so rewatchable, but I think it comes down in the Kathy Bates piece of it. but we'll get to that in a second. What makes this a rewatchable to you? And is it a rewatchable to you?

Well, you and I were texting about this last night about like whether it's a movie that you can really watch over and over again, like the original idea of, you know, rewatchables. But here's what I think. First of all, it is a perfectly executed film. There aren't that many. You know, a great thing is different than a perfect thing. And this is pretty much a perfect.

thing. It achieves what it sets out to do. But, I mean, you said it's written by our friend Bill Goldman, and that is true. But you can't talk about this and why it was made and the way it was made without really talking about who Stephen King was in the 80s. I'm ready. Like, we got to understand, I think, right, that Stephen King, I was trying to think about who is, and it's not J.K. Rowling, like forgetting the controversies even, because originally the Harry Potter books were designed to be read by middle-aged readers, where Stephen King was the, he was the biggest writer in the world in the way that the Beatles were the biggest band in the world. He was a brand name as a writer that was like unequaled in my lifetime. There's not been anybody who occupied that spot in the popular

culture except Stephen King, where beyond Grisham, who you know I love and written movies for and went like an and and it's a different thing who he was and what an event it was when he wrote one of his great books did i mean i my friends and i would pass his books around to each other even starting in sixth grade or something like that and continuing you know almost all the way uh you know if you think about the movies that have been made from his books i mean shot you know stand by me on one end, Shawshank on the other of classic movies. And misery is the third of that of the three best ones, I think, and The Shining, right? Those would be the four best ones.

And The Shining, he didn't even like. Yeah, I'm with you. I think one of the things that makes Stephen King so special is that you can't even compare him to anybody. I think the Grisham thing is a key point. It seemed like he was going to have a Stephen King type run with his books because he was so prolific and the ideas were so rich for, I don't know, maybe seven years. But King had five stretches of seven years like that, you know?

You can't even compare him to anything. I mean, what John Grisham accomplished is an incredible thing and also like, you know, the good that dude's done in the world, too, like, you know, in terms of like innocent project and all that stuff. But and Grisham, you know, still built, still number one bestseller every time he releases a book. But Stephen King and the culture, because of his. because he could write something like Stand By Me,

like The Body, which is Stand By Me, and he could write something like Shawshank, and he could write something like this. And the books were both super involving on a character level. Like, you know, I don't know how many people have read The Gunslinger or how many people have read the Talisman, which you wrote with Peter Straub.

I'm not looking at anything, right? I could list all his books, basically, without looking at reading what they are. I just know them all by heart, kind of. And so here you had this book, where King is getting to describe what it's like to be Stephen King and the nightmare. You know, I joke to you on text, dude, about the number one fan thing. Yeah. And, you know, you are, I mean, you're not Stephen King in the culture, but I do think that the way people grew up reading

you, particularly people who started reading you when they were 12, you know that they have a connection, this back when you were a writer, they have a connection. Fingers worked. Yeah, when your fingers worked. But they had a connection to you, right? Where they knew you and he meant something in a certain way. And King was experiencing that and writing about it. And that's probably part of why it's so fucking vital. He had that tenfold what I had. I think there's a bunch of things with this, right, where you could read these Stephen King books when you were, depending on how fast and grade of a reader you were. It could have been in sixth grade. Like, I was reading his books when I was in sixth grade. Other people, maybe high school. You could also read them when you're 70.

So his age range was really the entire population. He was doing this kind of horror, thriller, supernatural, creepy, intense, psychotic, whatever he was going for. But his stuff always had some sort of bent. And he was so prolific and so talented at it. That I used to have a running joke with my friends in college. Like if it just came out that Stephen King was actually a serial killer,

would you be surprised? Because his imagination was so psychotic and so crazed that you were like, oh yeah, so he lived in Maine that whole time

and was just stacking bodies in his basement and he was responsible for 48 murders. Like, I wouldn't have been shocked. Plus, he was a Red Sox fan. It's like he wasn't demented enough. And he was also a Red Sox fan.

Like, I really thought he was capable of crimes when you read his books, but that's how great of a writer he was. But also, you know, in the book, Misery has a lot of, to do, you know, talks about addiction a lot. And he was a guy who, I mean, part of what that was about this extensively, he's written about this extensively. The best book ever about writing is on writing. And King had a Coke problem and he had a drinking problem for a long time during these

years. And painkillers. Like he basically had all, everything. Yeah. Probably to cope with like what it was to be this guy in Bangor, Maine, writing these books, you know, and, and, and even his short story book, I, I would say, night shift, which was his first collect. to short stories. Like, if you're out there and you're listening, you're like, ah, I don't really like to read novels that much. Go get this book Night Shift, which is just every short story in it is fucking horrifying, but super relatable. And you can totally understand what happens to these people and why. And like almost everyone's been made into some, either a crap, you know, the manga and a shitty movie or into something really cool.

Well, but that's a piece with him, right? So many of his things were made into movies or TV shows. and the reason is he was so good at just like a story you could describe in a sentence and he would have the best possible ideas right and he'd be like how about this idea it's like great idea you should write it and then he would write a really good version of it but over and over again he just came up with awesome ideas like the shining it's just an incredible idea like I'm almost in awe of how do you even think of all this stuff right and you go through his list like carry the dead zone the misery like Just over and over again.

I left out the Dead Zone, which is like one of my, which I think of as a Cronenberg movie. Yeah. Which is absolutely in that top group of Stephen King movies, the Dead Zone. It's insane. Yeah. A perfect movie, actually. Well, so his, and this ties back to misery, his movies, the first wave of movies that were made from his books. And you had big directors that want to do it, right?

Like the Palma does carry. Yes. Kubrick does The Shining. You also have some quicky ones like Firestarter and Christine. and Kujo and the Dead Zone. Which has the weirdest George C. Scott performance ever. I actually think he might be either dead or so drunk that he can. I just don't know what's going on with that movie.

And the Dead Zone, the Dead Zone is, it's fine, but I think the trivial psychic Christopher Walken thing pushed that to another level on SNL. Like it revived Dead Zone as such a fun movie. Between Martin Shes, I think Dead Zone, like, explains a lot about politicians in a way better I got to watch again. I haven't seen a while. Because Martin Sheen, Martin Sheen in that movie is, we, we referenced that movie twice last year on the TV show and described one of our characters as being like the main bad guy in that movie. Dead Zone's really, go watch Dead Zone again.

It's great. So when we get to misery, King is so frustrated with the movies that have been made about his books. And I get it. I would probably be that way, too. you feel like your book's perfect, you're handing your baby to somebody else to babysit for nine to 12 months creatively. And you're going to be disappointed regardless. But the first one of, the first adaptation of his that he actually really liked was Stand By Me. And when he had misery, it was such a personal book to him because it's really about his addiction, right?

I think the movie people who watch this, if they don't know the backstory, they think it's just about a crazed fan. But it's really about the craze fan in this case is the painkillers. And that's, and all the shit that he was doing at the time. And that's Annie Wilkes is really, she represents that. This thing that's trying to kill him. He doesn't want to give the book up,

but he loves standby me. And he doesn't want to sell it and people are trying. And then Rob Reiner's producer reads the book on a plane, Andy Scheinman. It's been in print for a while. It's number one. Every King book was number one. And they go to get the rights and King doesn't want to do it, but then he finds out Reiner's involved,

and he makes this deal. You could have the rights, but Reiner has to either direct or produce it. And that's how Reiner gets the book. You mentioned Andy Scheiman. I'm really glad that you did, because you'll like this, you'll care about this,

basically considered the most talented athlete of almost anyone who's ever produced a movie. Wow. He's, you know, and you see him, and he doesn't look like it, but he is, was like a college tennis player, really good at basketball. And he became friends with Rob Reiner

because he was so good at tennis. And Reiner wanted to learn tennis and they started playing tennis together. Jesus. And he was this great tennis pro and really smart and ended up being able to write and launched the company with him and did all that stuff.

And yeah, I've gotten to know him a little bit and people always, you see him. And he's like, you know, this 70, whatever year old dude, he does not look athletic. And anyone who knew him back in the day is just like, oh, Andy Shine. man, that guy's good at sports. It's the funniest thing.

Well, Reiner had, you know, he's on all in the family, which if you're under 35, you probably don't even know what that show is, but that was the biggest sitcom of the 70s, I would say. It was either that or MASH, I would say, would be the top two. And all the family is geared around Carol O'Connor, who plays Archie Bunker, who probably has an age well if you watch some of the YouTube clips. But Rob Reiner was, you know, the hippie, young, anti-Vietnam, long hair, and he's just the foil for Archie Bunker. He's Meathead. Archibunker calls him Meathead. Hey, Bill, you want to be

depressed. You know that Archie Bunker was younger than you, right? Yeah, I know. Well, so is Wilford Brimley and Coon. I know. I know. It's tough. Yeah, there's been some tough ones. Ramelellan. But Bunker's a bad one, man. So Rob Reiner, as Meathead, head, it's such an indelible role. It almost seems inconceivable that it can do anything else, right? It's, I mean, you're 30, 35 million people are watching all in the family every week. Nobody can conceive of him as doing anything else, but he does this, the spinal tap directs it. He does the sure thing, which is a fantastic movie, which is now gone.

It doesn't exist. You can't stream it. You can't find it on Apple. You can't find it on Amazon. It's gone. He wanted to disappear that movie, you think? It's a little suspicious because let's just say the premise has an aged awesome. But I think that was one of my favorite 80s movies.

It's an incredible road trip movie. It's John Cusack's breakout role. Anyway, people love that movie and it did well. It leads to stand by me, which leads to the one Harry, Metzalley, misery, few good men. just incredible trio where you have, by the way, now all three of those have been rewatchables. All three of those made a ton of money. And the next one was a rewatchable too. American president is a rewatchable too, right?

Well, you got to put North in there. So North kind of ends up the windstreet. Although my son loves North, which I don't understand. But when Harry Metzali, Misery, Few Good Men is really the best of all of these different great actors, right? Billy Crystal, Meg Ryan, probably the best movie. movies they were ever in. Kathy Bates, late career James Conn, a few good men, probably the single most satisfying

cruise movie, unless you were going to say Top Gun. Anyway, it was an incredible run, and misery, I think, was probably the hardest one out of all of those because it's all in a room. It's got to figure it out. How can I keep this interesting for an hour and 45 minutes when I'm just in one spot with a guy who's in bed? Well, he makes the great choice. So we're talking about King and how great King was at creating these characters you care about

and how big a name King was and how much he mattered to people. But what's Rob Reiner's first move is to get the best screenwriter, maybe one of the five best screenwriters who ever lived to write the script. So it's set up for success. I mean, you're going from King to Bill Goldman. Yeah. And, you know, this is one of the movies. We're lucky that Goldman's written about this.

I'm sure you've taught. He's written about the movie. We're going to do a whole, let's do it now. This is such an important, Goldman writes four of the best books ever about movies. He has a whole chapter about misery, I think in more adventures of this screen trade. And it's really fascinating to reread.

And I've read it a bunch of times because there's so many dynamics in it of what can make or break a movie, right? It starts with they're trying to find a director. They get George Roy Hill, who's one of the greats from the 70s and 80s, and it goes to the hobbling scene, which in the screenplay and in the book,

she chops his foot off. And George Ray Hill's like, I can't get past the scene. I can't direct it. So Goldman, he lays all this out. It's important to say that's his favorite scene, Goldman. Goldman wants to write the script because of the scene. The hobbling scene is everything to him,

which is in the book, the guy's legs are like chopped off. It's not a hobbing scene. It's a chopping scene in the book. Yeah, in the book. Yeah, it's chopping. The chop. So he's like, this is. is the most incredible scene I've ever read in a book. I can't wait to write this movie.

I can't wait to see how we pulled this off in the movie. And then as he writes about over and over again, all of these people, they can't get past the scene. It's like they have Warren Beatty who would have been unbelievable in the James Con part. Unbelievable. It would have been the perfect time of his career. He was handsome like Paul Sheldon, like, what? And Warren Beatty's like, and Goldman writes about it. The guy's for life he's a loser he didn't want to play loser and he keeps the shimon i asked andy shimon about this when i uh met him uh and it was like the first thing i asked him we're standing by a tennis court of course because you know he's a great athlete and i said uh the baity thing is that how it went down

at goldman's thing he goes yeah i could tell from moment one warren was never going to do it but once he was in we had to just take that ride and it just stopped he goes he said it was so obvious that Warren was just never going to sit in that bed and let the other person be the, you know, right, be the star. Well, Goldman had George Roy Hill. Hill passed on the movie and he explained, I was up all night and I could just not hear myself say action on that scene. I just haven't got the sensibility to do that scene.

So they're going through. They're going through. They can't get anybody to bite. Oh, because Rob was going to produce it at first, not directly, right? He was going to produce it. It was Rob Ryan, everybody said, I'll produce it if I can't. And then I'll direct it if I can't find a director. Right.

Can't find anybody. They finally, Rob and Andy finished like Goldman's revision of the script, and they change it to a hobbling. And Goldman freaks out. He says, I screamed. I got on the phone with Rob and Andy and told them they had ruined the picture that it was a great and memorable scene they had changed. It was the reason I had taken the job.

I was incoherent. But I made my point. They just wouldn't buy it. The lopping scene was gone now forever replaced by the. the ankle breaking scene. I hated it, but there it was. And then he writes, and you know what? I was wrong.

It became instantly clear when we screened the movie. What they had done, it was exactly the same scene except for the punishment act. Worked wonderfully. It was absolutely horrific enough. If it had gone the way I wanted, it would have been too much. The audience would have hated Annie

and in time hated us. If I'd been in charge, misery would have been this film, you might have heard from, but never gone to see. And then he says, in the movie businesses in real life, we need all the help we can get.

We needed every step the way. Goldman's recurring theme in all of his books is, you never know, you could be this decision, you hate it the most, it could be the best possible thing. You could try to get this actor or director and you don't get him and you think, or her and you think the whole movie's falling apart. It can actually be the best thing over and over again. It's this ride of you never know, which you've been living for, you know, almost 30 years now in the business. Yes, it's true. It's, you have to listen to what your gut says and you have to know that even if you, you do, you could be wrong. But it's all you have. It's the only thing you have when you're making

these creative calls, especially at every stage except post-production. I would say the editing, you know, you've edited enough movies, Bill, that you know. The editing process is the one time where you absolutely understand the ramifications of your decisions. Every other time up to there, it's guesswork. Do you have your equivalent of the hobbling scene? Like something that you were absolutely convinced you guys were in the right i totally do i 100% do i'm sorry if people here listen to my podcast this is the time you're going to have to drink because i'm going to mention rounders so take a drink because rounders is coming up i apologize well good with that uh but um yeah man in the script you never saw at the last hand of rounders you know we keep malcovitch's hand secret

but also we kept Matt's hand secret until the end. So you don't know that he has, you don't know that he has the straight until he turns the cards over. So you want the audience to be surprised like Teddy KJB was. Because the audience is to watch, the audience doesn't know, right? So here's the thing. So that's in the script. And we very clearly said, like, you do not see these hands. Because there's this pre-hole card cam.

Even the World Series of poker when you would watch it didn't have. that and that was part of the way you watched poker was not with the things and we thought yeah put the audience in teddy kgbc so this is why john doll has directed also like so many episodes for for dave and me over the years we love him and because so john's like well let's just shoot you know let's do an insert day and shoot those things and we were like no no no no no he was we're just going to shoot so we watched the movie the way that we had it and there was something in the end that just was but but i was sure sure let me tell you talk about like basically saying, you know, I'll take my name off quick.

So John goes, okay, guys, now you know I can make the choice. I don't even have to consult you. But here's what I will do. I will convince the studio to do consecutive screenings on the same, on two nights in a row, we're going to screen the movie. Once we're going to screen it where you can see Matt's cards, and once we're going to screen it where you can't, you guys sit in the audience and, you guys sit in the audience and watch and you guys make the decision.

And I was like so fucking cocky and confident. And I was like, you're, they're going to ruin the fucking movie. We, you know, if you do this. And we sat in the theater and you saw the way people reacted when they could root for Mike with the cards. And it was just like, oh my God, I was so wrong. The whole time I was so sure. And I was dead.

I just sat there like, I'm a fucking moron. Like, of course, you got to be with him and see. what he's going through and watch him trap Teddy. Now you're on the inside watching him trap Teddy KGB, which the movie's taught you to understand. The whole time, the movie taught you to get ready to understand what he did to Teddy. But I was positive. It was a mistake.

And I remember Levine and I both. We sat there in the theater. We just looked at each other. We were like, that fucker is right. God damn it, he's right. And immediately we were like, you don't even have to do the next screening. You're 100% right. That's it.

Done. That's an unbelievable story because it's so important that we know his car. so we can watch Damon react to Teddy KGB that whole. That's probably the best part of the scene. It's so important. He literally has a poker face. It's so important. But now, you know, like that's the thing, though,

and why Bill Goldman was so great. And by the way, Dave and I had read all the books that he'd written up to that point. But why it's so great is like, you know, at other times in one's life, when you've been right a lot of time, you could still just be like, ah, fuck. Like, we were open enough in that moment.

And it was so clear. And, like, of course, well, you want us the movie to be great. So you just take your ego out of it. And you're like, oh, fuck, I'm wrong. John Dole, you're so right. Thank you for thinking of this and saving our fucking asses. You know, a lot of the time, I mean, there's definitely other things that went a different way. You know, you're talking about the hobbling scene.

Like, I'll give you one other that you'll love that I've definitely never told you before, which is when when grandma finds worm in the, in the, and takes him to the men's room and, you know, punches worm in the stomach. Yeah. That was written in the script that he takes worm and he throws him toward a urinal. And then he grabs one of those urinal cakes that used to be in the, and shoves the urinal cake in his mouth. And at the script stage, Dahl was like, no actor's going to really want to do that. It's too humiliating for the same Warren Beatty reasons.

Yeah. And that one, so we changed it, but I still wish that was in the movie. I still wish that. It was so no one had ever done that. You've still never seen that in a movie where a guy sticks a year old cake, like a thug, sticks a urinal cake and it guys, man. It's so gross.

Well, you still have time. You could throw that into something. Yeah, Mike Prince will do it to ride. A urinal cake eating. Well, you need luck with this stuff. I mean, we had the original 30 for 30 idea, which I had all sketched out. And it was supposed to be, I think it was 10, 10, and 10.

It was like 10 people, 10 teams, and 10 events. and then it was, we'll get four filmmakers and we'll make the rest ourselves. And I was like, I was really stuck on that because I had the whole thing, I had the title and the memo and the whole thing. And then as Connor and I started to talk about the idea because Connor, we started developing it.

And he's like, we can get, I think we can get 30 filmmakers for this. That's awesome. And I was like, first of all I was like, that seems impossible. Are there even 30 filmmakers? And then second, I was like, the quality is going to be all over the place.

That's not going to work. They're all going to feel different. But that was like the wrong instinct. It actually was one of the best things about 30 for 30 is that every one of them felt different and not like formulaic. That's what made it an event, of course. Yeah. Yeah.

So that was, that's awesome that you were open to it. It's so awesome that you guys were open to it. I didn't know enough to even fight. It's not like I had a lot of experience with documentaries at that point. But I saw it pretty quickly because it was like, no, no, there's going to be enough filmmakers will be able to do this. Now it's like, I mean, there's so many filmmakers

It would be the easiest thing to do 30, but 2008, not the same. Goldman, the other piece was And we're stepping on casting what else. Actually, let's take a break because I want to talk about the Kathy Bates piece of this. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is.

Just go to Carvana.com and to your license plate or Vin and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today.

Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about zebbound, terse appetite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea,

OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zetbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zetbound contains terseptitide and should not be used with other terseptide-containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zetbound is seen. safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop set bound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems.

Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth. Earth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. All right, so we have to mention Kathy Bates and how important she was to this movie. And I have a, for my Stephen A's Hottest Take Award later, I'm going to save a Kathy Bates take for you. They offered that role to Angelica Houston and Bet Midler,

or they had deep talks of them, and both of them didn't want to do it for different reasons. And then Reiner really got fired up about Kathy Bates. And Goldman said, one thing that Reiner was really fixated on was that Annie was this unknown creature who appears alone out of a storm. We know nothing about her.

And Goldman wrote, stars bring history with them. And I believe in this case, that would have been damaging. It's a really interesting point that we've talked about before on different podcasts on this feed. Sometimes the stars can bring baggage from other parts, from our history with them, that can start to damage the movie a little bit. And in this case, like, we literally knew nothing about Kathy Bates. I'd never seen her really in anything else that I could remember. And you're just on this ride with her the whole time. Now, there's other cases. Like, Anthony Hopkins is Hannibal Lecter. We knew Anthony Hopkins. He'd been in a bunch of stuff,

but they were able to change his hair, and he just felt like he was a character, not Anthony Hopkins. But in the Bates thing, how important to you is like just the unknown piece of it? Because like, for instance, Billions, you had Damien Brody as a star of the show, and I just watched him in Homeland. And I almost had to, like, it took me, I don't know how many episodes just to unlearn my homeland, Damien Brody, and accept him as acts. Damien Lewis. Damien Lewis. Damien Brody. That's how heavy

the Brody thing is. Who's Damien Brody? No, Brody's the character. No, Brody's the character on Homeland. You're right. David Lewis. Keep that in, Craig.

That's more I'm old than anything. But Damian Lewis, I had the Brody Homeland and it took probably four episodes just for me to see him as acts. Do you believe in baggage with characters? I'm trying to, like,

think it through. I agree with you on a TV series it takes maybe like what, like, I'll tell you a perfect example. My favorite replacement of a character ever, the only time, the time it worked the best ever, you know, before our show. But the time it worked the best ever, to me,

was Bobby Simone. You know, NYPD Blue, arguably, I mean, NYPD Blue is my favorite or second favorite network show of all time. But one of my favorite shows of all time is LA Law. And Victor Swentes was a hugely important character. Yeah. He was a giant, like really important character on LA law. Some of the best episodes were about him.

And so when he was picked to replace John Kelly, David Crusoe, I remember being like, how's Victor Siflente's going to be a cop? Like there's, and then, I don't know, five minutes into watching Smiths, you can't believe it. And then, I mean, Smith's is a miraculous figure because Matt Santos, which is my favorite, you know, West Wing's the other of my two favorite shows of all time. on network, Matt Santos is fucking unbelievable and nothing like Bobby Simone. And you just completely fall in love with Matt Santos. So it's a great, you know, I don't know what works somehow, even though those three characters

are totally different. Sometimes baggage really helps. Like Alan Alder's baggage helps in every role he ever plays. Yeah, that's a good point. I think that's say, I feel the same with Denzel. Yes. Yes. Yes.

That's a great point. Yes. It's a great point. Denzel, it always helps. But Kathy, if we just talk about it. about Kathy Bates. Like that moment that she says, I don't want to spoil it, but obviously the best quote.

We're spoiling everything. What are you talking about? I mean, to me, the best quote, no, what I'm saying, like, for when we get to the quotes. But to me, the best quote is the Daigot line is like the funniest thing. I mean, I fall to the floor every time I hear it. And it's better than perfect. It's divine.

What's the ceiling that Daigot painted? The Sistine Chapel. Yeah. That and misery. child. Those are the only two divine things ever in this world. Like, I just fall to the floor. But if you think about what an actor she is, like, I cannot tell you how many ways an actor would fuck that line up because you want to chew the shit out of that. You want to say, what's the name? You want to go like, you really want to sell how outrageous

that is. Like, I could picture so many actors trying to make a moment out of that line. Like, you know, what's the name of that Daigo who painted the ceiling? And Kathy Bates, because you don't know her, because you don't, she just casually throws it. What's the name of that day? And the whole time she's never cursed. She thinks she's one way. It's the first, it's like really reveals.

Holy fuck, you're like so compelled by her in that moment and what she's doing. And it's so fucking fall down funny. And the character, like a lot of the time an actor will protect themselves from really looking as dumb or as foolish. You know, that's why the magic. Well, ugly, too. That's the other thing is she's not that attractive, you know, and I don't, there's not a lot of actresses, I think, who would have wanted to be this ugly in a role.

She's willing to do it. The point is, Kathy Bates is willing to not show you there's any room between her and the character. So you're just totally horrified and scared shitless. A lesser actor would let you know that she's in on the joke, that she's making. fun of Annie. And she, Kathy, never makes fun of Annie.

Isn't that a stage thing? Because I feel like ultimately this is the best version of a play as a movie. And she's basically going full-scale stage actress this whole time. And just inhibiting this other human being. Which is why it's so interesting that James Kahn is the other piece of this. Because James Kahn's just a traditional movie. I mean, he's Sonny Corleone. He's a movie actor.

and I almost, I guess we can debate it now or later whether James Cotton was the right guy for it. The case that Goldman made was like, Khan was just years of just an incredible party or the whole thing and he had this manic energy to him and Sunny Corleone and just bouncing right, he's bouncing off the walls and to confine him to the bed and the energy of that was what made it work.

Do you agree with that? I'm a, you know, I am an unapologetic and a huge, James Confan. Like, you know, the podcast you and I promised to do five years ago, I think, is Rollerball, which we have to do at some point. Oh, it's on the list. We have to do. We promised on air we were going to do it years ago. Jonathan. I mean, there's nobody, I watched it recently. There's nobody better than James. Nobody. I couldn't think of one of the great leading man actor performances. I can't think of one human being who would play that part where you, I mean, Denzel is the only person you could ever imagine.

But like, but, but that, but James Kahn is the best. It's just perfect, especially at that moment in the world. Like he was the guy. And I, although he's great in this movie, meaning the movie completely works,

you care about what's going to happen. What, I mean, the idea is that the character is, he's an intellectual. He's a guy who's read a ton of books. He wants to be a great writer. He wants to be considered,

one of the greats. He's read all of the grades. And I, watching the movie, just never believed that the actors read those books. Like, you know, to become a writer, you've got to read all these books. And I never can spend the disbelief that the actors read all the books you'd have to have read to be sitting there as an author. Do you? Do you suspend disbelief? I'm not sure James Con is nerdy enough to just write the misery books. Because most writers have some sort of trauma in their life or they weren't cool at some point in their life or whatever. He just seems like he was like the captain of the football team, got every girl he wanted.

That's not somebody who's just saving away in front of a typewriter for nine months a year. You know, I mean, obviously there's this list of people they tried to get Jack Nicholson and Beatty and all that stuff. I don't think Beatty would have worked either. And Dreyfus. As famous as he was. So Dreyfus, I think, would have been a really interesting one

because I would have bought Dreyfus as a writer. Yeah, Robin Williams, to me, would have been incredible. credible. Oh, wow. Because you'd really care. He was a partyer. He had the muscle. He had that sort of, you know, caged energy, but you know he read all the books, too. You know what I mean? We're basically doing the recasting couch category, but I'm fine with it. I was thinking Duval. Amazing. And Michael Douglas, too. Michael Douglas would have crushed it, too, because he would have had the same demons. And you know, he's got the fucking IQ. You know, Michael Douglas got the genius IQ. They go.

Good time of his career, too. The reason I was thinking Duval was he was a little, because I think the Paul Sheldon character is probably like late 50s. Oh, yeah, right. You know, he has the same, if he was trapped in a bed for that long, I think it would have been, I also think it would have been a really interesting, I don't know if Deval has played a character like that, where as vulnerable as that usually, you know.

And that's a good era for him. It was right around when he turned down Godfather 3. I think he was still famous. So, Khan, there's some scenes where I just, feel like I wanted a little more from Khan. He's going against Kathy Bates, who's throwing a no-hitter, basically. She might even be a perfect game. And it's just like there's a couple where it's like,

you can't just kind of look down and seem like slightly confused. That can't be like your move in the scene. It is. She's a, dude, that's so great what you just said. She is throwing a perfect game in this movie. It's perfect. On the flip side, maybe it's good that he's a little more restrained because she's chewing up so much scenery that maybe you don't need another great actor in that in that thing.

And we also have the Sunny Corleone. You know, I don't want Sunny Corleone to get hurt. You know who would have been the best? Donald Sutherland. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good time of his career, too. He would have crushed that. The only thing with Donald Sutherland is I feel like he would have tried to fuck Annie at some point.

He always had that. He isn't that pervy feel to him? Any character in any movie? you feel like Donald Sutherland might take a crack at before too long? Even six degrees of separation. It's like, I can see him taking a crack at Will Smith there. You just see, he's always, it's always in play with him. I mean, I have to say nothing.

There's nothing I can say. Well, Kathy Bates won Best Actress. She was the first woman to win an Oscar for Best Actress in a Horror or Thriller. This was the only film based on a Stephen King novel to win one of the main Oscars. Now, you could argue Shawshank. Should have been the one, but I think Shawshank was a slow burn. The best actress category that year, Kathy Bates wins, Injalka Houston for the Grifters,

Julia Roberts for Pretty Woman, Merrill Street for Postcards from the Edge, and Joanne Woodward for Mr. and Mrs. Bridge. A rare, fantastic, best actress category. Usually there's a couple, either they just had to fill the category out or movies that nobody's seen. All of those really good actresses in iconic roles for them. I don't know that Joanne Woodward movie somehow.

That's a good one. What is it? Mr. Mrs. Bridge. It's her and Paul Newman. That was when... 89.90 was when I was getting into movies. I did a movie criticism class a year, and I remember writing a piece on Mr. Mrs. Bridge.

89. 90 was my first year as an A&R guy record producer. So, like, I was not... Yeah, you're trying to find Tracy Chapman. I was not... Best actor that year, Jeremy Irons, reversal of Fortune. Oh, that's incredible performance. Goldman said about Khan Quote,

one special thing Con brought to the party is he's a very physical guy is like a shark. He has to keep moving. He cannot be still in a room. And playing Paul a month after month trapped

and that bed drove him nuts. That pent-up energy you saw on the screen was very real and it was one of the main reasons, at least for me, that the movie worked. But then Goldman has this unbelievable.

I got to read this. So he's talking about who should have played. So here's Goldman's take on who should have played Paul Sheldon. Paul Sheldman is an attractive, sensitive man in his 40s, a writer, and romance fiction. And if you ask me, what star best describes that guy? I would answer with two words, Richard Gere.

So why didn't we go with him? Wrong question. The real question is this. How is it possible for us to spend six months looking for an actor for a part for which Richard Gere would have been perfect and never once, not even one time, mention his name? That's how dead he was at the time we were. were looking, we were looking before Eternal Affairs, and that was the movie that reed. But that's another thing Goldman used to love about is the concept of stardom and how people get

hot or cold. And Richard Gere was one of his favorites. Richard Gere had seven straight years of terrible movies and was dead. And then Internal Affairs and Pretty Woman completely revived him and all of a sudden he was an A-plus Lister again. But this happens in Hollywood. Wild, because it's the same year. Goldman's writing that because you just said Pretty Woman was the same year.

So he had the super comeback right then, basically. And he was like the 17th choice for Pretty Woman. I think they went through every white guy in Hollywood before they got to him. $20 million budget for this movie made $61.3 million. Ebert, three stars. He says it's a good story. A natural grabs us, but just as there's almost no way to screw it up. There's hardly any way to bring it above a certain level of inspiration.

But the Kathy Bates performance is trickier and more special. I would have gone three and a half stars personally. What about you? Yeah, I think it's really executed incredibly well. Yeah, I think it's three and a half star movie, maybe a four-star movie for what it is. I think the Bates performance puts it in the possibility that it's a four-star. But I would say three and a half. I'm fine with the three-and-half.

Yeah, okay. Most re-watchable scene. I love the opening credits in the car accident. I love me a good car accident. Well, this comes back to why I wondered to you last night if it's a true rewatchable because it is the, because what I wrote you was like, I'm not sure it's the kind of movie you can start in the middle and just pick it up in the middle and watch. No, because you're going, if the hobling's coming, I'm staying. Right. But it's not like that kind of like, oh, I can just watch like a, you know, like a true, like a few good men. You can just kind of roll into a few good men wherever it's, it's a perfect rewatchable, right?

Yeah, but that's like a Hall of Famer. Yeah, you can just roll into it wherever you are and just roll right through. Like, you know, whereas this, but I would say the dinner scene's unbelievable. And, you know, when she comes back, because the big question of did she spill it on purpose or not, I think she did spill the wine on purpose. Well, I have a couple. So the tomato soup scene, which is the first time we see she's crazy. These are slum kids.

I was a slum kid. Everybody talks like that. They do not? What do you think I say when I go to the feed store in town? Oh, now, Wally, give me a bag of that effing pig feed and 10 pounds that bitchly cow corn. And the bank, do I tell Mrs. Bollinger, oh, here's one big bastard of a check. Give me some of your Christing money? There, look there.

See what you made me do? Amazing. And it spills in the blanket and she just flips out. When she finds out misery is dead and she tells him. And she's flipping out again, and she goes, don't think about anybody coming for you. Not the doctor's, not your agent, not your family. Because I never called them.

And you're like, oh, oh, she's a fucking lunatic. And don't even think about anybody coming for you. Not the doctors. Not your agent. Not your family. Because I never called them. Nobody knows you're here. And you better hope nothing happens to me.

Because if I die, you die. You die. I like when she buys the wrong paper for the typewriter and he's like this smears and she's getting so mad but trying to contain herself she's like oh didn't realize I had the wrong paper Annie what's the matter what's the matter? I'll tell you what's the matter

I go out of my way for you I do everything to try and make you happy I feed you I clean you I dress you and what thanks do I get? All you bought the wrong paper, Annie. I can't write on this paper, Annie. Well, I'll get your stupid paper, but you just better start showing me a little more appreciation around here, Mr. Man. And then so what she calls Mr. Man, which I love, Mr. Man. And then that's when Paul gets out. When Paul gets out, that's a riveting three minutes because you're like, what else is in this house? Where are we going?

What's in the living room? Is there a dog? Is it Paul in danger? It's a good one. The dinner scene is great. So you think she spills the wine intentionally? I watched it a couple times last night to check myself on it. And yeah, I think if I don't remember what the book says. I don't remember in the book how that's

spoken to exactly. But, or even if that seems in the book exactly in that way, though I think it is. But yeah, because if Annie is a poisoner, we kind of know that from what we learn later. Like she's,

Dragon Lady. Shit. Annie killed a lot of people. So like Annie is on the lookout. Yeah. And so I do. I think that she, I think that she knows. That dinner scene is excellent because one of the things I like about this movie and why I do think it's a rewatchable.

And it's probably like a tier two or a tier three rewatchable. It's not like a few good men. You know, it's not Hoosiers. But it's kind of on that ice storm lane of like, I'm just so riveted by how good the act. is and how unique the movie is. But there's like 25% of her that's kind of like, I think this guy might be into me.

Like she wants to believe it. Even though she knows, like, there's no chance this guy likes me. But there's that small piece of hope where it's like, I might be getting late tonight from Paul Sheldon. Yeah. Just to revisit the question of it, it's rewageable. But I think there's another subgroup of these movies, which in a way is you just saying to people,

you, if you've never seen this movie, you should go watch it. Because it's a first tier, go watch this movie if you've never seen it. Like, you gotta see misery. Well, it also might be a great performance rewatchable too. Yes, yes. Where she's so good in this, that's what makes it a rewatchable. But as the original thing is, you know, you come back from whatever your night is, you've ordered in Chinese, you're sitting on your couch, the game ends,

and you're flipping channels. Yeah, you're not like, I want to hang out with Annie Wilkes. That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure. Suicidal Annie is really good or how the rain bothers her. Well, then he gets out. This woman's a lunatic.

It's an incredible scene. The hobbling scene, which I think is one of the most famous scenes of the 90s. It's insane. I was lucky enough to see this movie in the theater, not knowing that scene was coming. Yeah.

Oh, you hadn't read the book, you don't think? I hadn't read the book. Oh, yeah, I had read the book. Right. I can't tell you how horrified the theater was. It is one of the all-time great moments to have in a theater

when she does it because you're like, wait, what's she doing? She, would it, wait, what's happening? Yeah, it's incredible. And then she does it and the ankle bent sideways and it's like, oh! It's just, there's just nothing like that scene. I think that is,

that's like one of the most unique, unforgettable scenes in the history of a horror thriller. Excruciating. And I agree with you. It is, it's funny. Like, the whole time you know Annie means business because you've already seen, he's already gone out and tried to fight.

But that's when you're like, oh, my God, she's going to kill him. Yeah. He's never, there's no chance he's getting out of here. She's going to fucking kill him. You know what I was thinking when I was watching? So I was thinking about if somebody kidnapped you the same way. And for Paul Schell's,

He really wants to get, like, he wants to get a hold of his daughter. And he's like, you would be more focused, I think, on the Knicks, especially if this happened during the winter. He would be like, wait a second. Can you bring me some box scores? Like, I don't need to see the real news, but just the box score page. Can I just have that? Can you just give that?

I'll write you three pages of misery right now. Can I just have the box scores? I mean, I need to know if we're really just going to empty the whole, safe, everything that we have to get Brunson. that's how I'm going to have to find out of it. You're like, Andy. Brunson had 37 last night. These guys were right.

I can't believe it. Yeah. Jalen Brunson has, oh, oh, he, 37, it's turnovers over four games. 37 turnovers over four games. Andy, Mitchell Robinson did it play last night. Can you drive back into town and find out what happened? Yeah. It would have been your whole focus.

Two more, two more scenes. Farnsworth showing up. And at that point, so attached to Farnsworth. I watched this to my wife, and she forgot that Farnsworth just gets brutally shot through the chest. Like there's a hole. It's like Terminator style. Through the back. Oh, my God.

It's one of the worst gunshots that he was taken. And my wife got more mad at that than anything else in the movie. She's like, oh, why did they have to kill him? I don't understand. She didn't realize, like he's so, but he's so dead meat from the moment you first see him. You so know that he's dead meat. Like, there's no shit. Yeah, that guy's getting through the movie.

And then the fight scene is really great and even has the horror movie come back to life moment. But the whole how he measures it with the typewriter and then they just keep going. He swings the broken leg and trips her. Also, how great is it that like when, and this is where James, okay, this is where the fact that it's James Kahn is so great. Like, because obviously it also really works that it's him. So like the fact that we know what James Kahn's arms look like, his shoulder. shoulders. Like, we just know, movie fans know his power. We saw him beat up Carlo. Yeah, with the garbage cans. When he starts lifting the typewriter, I don't realize he's

figuring out that's that he's going to kill her with it. I think he's trying to get his arm strong with the typewriter. So you're surprised that, oh, he's been planning to use it to kill her. Like, it's incredible, I think. Really, really great. Most rewatchable. I mean, the hobbling isn't rewatchable, but it's the most famous scene. So it almost has to win the most famous scene award. But I really like the dinner scene. I think that's the most rewatchable scene. There's just a lot going on. It's really well written. It's well acted. His face when she spills the wine. All of it, I think, is really good. Also the scene with the gasoline when she makes and put the, because you didn't list that as the best scene. No, I should have. And I think that's one

of the best scenes in the movie is is when she's going to light, uh, wants him to light the manuscript on fire. Because it sets up the end too. It's just perfect, I think. You know why I didn't list it? Because it really bothers me as a writer. Yeah. I thought I just, every time I go into this dark place about if I had spent a lot of time writing something and then somebody burned it, how upset. I would just like, just kill me. Especially now that my fingers don't work. Um, I, I would to just feel like, just kill me now. I just can't believe. I spent six months on that and you fucking burned it because you're a maniacic. Just shoot me. Take me out. We're going to take a break and do what's the best. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it

with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale sign storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Want your kids to learn and play every Sunday for free? Plenty kids is using sports and evidence-based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience, and the tools they need for life's challenges and opportunities. Every Sunday from April 12th to May 10th, we're running free

sessions at the Boys and Girls Club, New Rochelle, for all children. Tap the banner or visit clinickidts.com to learn more. That's Clinic with a K. Clinic Kids is a registered 501c3 nonprofit. What's age the best? Mr. Man is so fucking funny. My wife and I have been, she's been saying that to me for like 20 years. It's just been a a running joke in our house. Mr. Man. Okay, Mr. Man. It's so good.

Annie Wilkes and Hannibal Lecter, back-to-back years. Two of the great thriller characters we've ever had. Psychotic thriller character. Yeah, in the span of 12 months. Farnsworth and Francis Stern-Hagen, that marriage is so... I don't know how much of that was in the book,

but it feels very Goldman-y to me. Just that they're barely... What are they in five minutes of the movie? She's not in the book. That character, I believe that the woman, I believe the sheriff's wife is not in the book. So yeah, so Goldman makes that up. Ah, you see, it's just that kind of sarcasm that's giving our marriage spice.

Just every interaction with them is great. I like when she snorts at Misery of the Pig that it makes me laugh. Here's a good wood's age the best. The Paul Sheldon book jacket photo is fucking awesome. It's like the perfect exactly what a book jacket photo would have looked like in like 1989, right? Yes, but you're getting one. right up next to one of the what age the worsts, which is the agent, your book agent taking you to like the four seasons for lunch.

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? That would be post-bate salad in the office. Yeah, right. That's what I'm saying. Like that idea of like the book business. Yeah. That's ridiculous.

The four-star book business. That's just ridiculous. Morewood's age the best. Dom Perrignan fucking is just great. One of the best lines of all time. The end not working on the typewriter, that's another thing that gives me writer PTSD, when you have like the key that jams

or the thing that, and it's just the most traumatic thing that can happen. It's like I got to move through and add all the ends to the fucking thing. I remember I was at the NBA finals one of those years and one of the keys on my think pad just started jamming. And it was the most discombative.

I was just so upset. It really screwed me up. It was so hard to rate. So another one stage the best. I love the Goldman homage to Paul Sheldon having floor seats in the Knicks. Awesome. It's just, I was like, oh, Goldman. The hobbling, just the fact that they changed it from an actual, I'm cutting your foot off, I think was really smart.

I'm so glad you just brought up Goldman in the Knicks. Like, just to say, every single time, in order to get to his seats, he had to walk past His seats were way better than mine, but he would always, the aisle that he would walk by was my aisle. And I was the last row of the section that, like leading up to that aisle. So he would always walk right by me. And there was never a time I didn't get excited that Bill Goldman was always by me. Yeah, it was like, he was like a movie character. It was just like, holy show, I would turn to Sammy and I would go, Bill Goldman, Bill Goldman's coming by.

I'm going to say, should I say hi? I'm going to say hi. You know, like, before I was really like, new. Like that. There's no living writer like that now for... Screenwriter like that? But no. Not really.

Not with the mystique that he had. Not to guys like us, like people coming up like us. Yeah, I was thinking about him last week because he definitely would have emailed probably both of us, what the fuck are we doing with this Brunson thing? Yeah, sometimes I call, like, the live golf thing. Like, I called Lupica to talk about live golf last week. And we had a long talk about it. And the whole time, obviously, it's like we're kind of talking to each other because

Bill's not able to. Right. Yeah. Like I was just filling the spot for Lou. I knew I was filling the spot for Lupica, basically, that Goldman would have filled in that conversation. The Brunson thing definitely would have sent him into a complete tailspin. Well, I, yeah, like I wrote you and you tried to encourage me.

I like Brinson. I wrote you depressed. No, I'm in on Brinson. You were my Goldman for that. I immediately texted you like, Jesus Christ. and you're like, it's going to be fine. But come on, it's not really going to be fine. Our friend Mark Simino is another one

who texted me completely, completely bad. He was so upset. What the fuck? The older Knicks fans, because they see the finish line of the, you know, the, oh my God, this is another three years of my life now before we're actually good again. Rod Strickland, Raymond Felton, Mark Jackson,

Steph Marbury. I mean, how many of these point guards were going to save our for Greg, Chris Childs, how many, How many point guards We're going to save our franchise? Chaunty Billups, Jason Kidd.

Yeah, Doc. Doc Rivers. I mean, come on. How many point guards are going to save the franchise? Do you want to do a podcast on the ringer where each podcast is about a Nick's point guard

from your lifetime? It's just a 45-minute conversation. Only if you'll do it with me, yes. Episode 7, Chris Childs. All right. I can tell you a lot about Chris Childs. I mean, what about Charlie Ward? 40 million bucks for him, remember?

And he was like, what is he? Didn't Charlie Ward start the fight that ruined our chance at the championship? I think he did. More categories. The slow ride, some new ones, some ones you haven't seen before. The Slow Ride Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop goes to the happy opening credit song. That's funny.

I like where it's like the trumpets and it's like, oh, this is great. We're having to go up. Mark Schaman does a really good job with the score. Yeah, he does. So the Dracula The Musical Award for Best Art Which we don't always have this category We relate

So in forgetting Sarah Marshall He's the main character's working on his Dracula The musical play And then the play happens And it's actually really good And you're like, wait a second This is like excellent We're giving this to the misery books

The concept of Of misery It's just it seemed really smart I didn't I didn't really understand What was going on and was she tied to royalty and brought back to life,

but there was a lot going on. I said, this is excellent. The mystery books, I'm in. The Big Cahuna Burger Award for Best Performance by Food or Drink. The meatloaf made me a little hungry. I got to be honest. Spam meatloaf.

Spam meatloaf, yeah. I was like, oh, spam. Then I'm like, do I ask my wife to make the Annie Wilkes meatloaf? Is there a recipe? But you kind of said it with Dom Perignan. Like, I mean, honestly. Right.

I mean, that went right. Don Paragonon has to win. The Den of Thieves Benihanna Award for scene stealing location. We don't really have it, but I do respect the basement in this movie. It's just a nice basement, like, very psycho-esque. I like those where the doors, and it's just like the long staircase down to the dark, dungeon-y basement is pretty good. The only other choice is like the fancy Four Seasons restaurant at the end, where he's out and living it up.

and with all the desserts and the thing. Right, just needs a little cane after his legs had been just completely demolished. Just a small cane, he's fine. The Great Shot Gordo Award for the best single shot in the movie. When he wakes up, when he falls asleep, he pulled the knife and he wakes up. Oh, my God.

And there's Annie's face and the lightning goes off. That's fucking great. Great job. Camera going up. No argument there. Yep. The Butch's Girlfriend Award. Butch's girlfriend from Pulp Fiction

for the weak link of the film. It's not a character this time. This is beyond what's aged the worst that's beyond a nitpick. I just want a little more from the Paul Sheldon just search party. I just feel like this is one of the biggest

most famous writers we have, apparently. He's in Colorado. He checks out of the hotel, which he knows. They know he does when he finishes the book. Any detective would be like, well, the cigarette was there, the champagne was there, so he left. He must have crashed and they can't fucking find him? Well, the big problem that gets revealed is that once he finds the news clippings, and we've already heard the sheriff call it the Wilkes estate.

So the sheriff knows Annie Wilkes lives there. Annie Wilkes has been written about in newspapers as a killer. She's the fucking dragon lady. Yeah, she's a murderer. She's the dragon lady. Like, even though there weren't computers in the internet the way there is, now there were, if you were a cop, you did have the ability in 1990 to sort of connect those dots along the matrix. You would be like, wait, Stephen King went, like it was Stephen King.

Stephen King went missing. Well, what would the route have been? Oh, he drove past the murderous lunatic's house. Like, you'd have just gotten there sooner and you wouldn't have just gone alone. Where were the other cops? Where, where, you don't go alone? How was this a whole search party? And how is this not one of the biggest stories in the world? It's a good nitpick. I like this nitpick. It's beyond a nitpick. The what's age the worst. The hobling, just how painful it is to watch.

Writing on a typewriter is age the worst. When I watch these movies or TV shows now, when people write on a typewriter, I'm just amazed that we did it that way. What if you just decide he didn't like a sentence? That's it. I'm stuck with the sentence. I typed it already. The other what's age of the worst I have, it's a little slow.

It could have sped up, I think, especially in the first hour, I think you could have sped up some stuff. But see, that goes back to the question. Do you think first viewing, it's a little slow? I'm not sure. I think first viewing, you're like, holy shit. But I think for a rewatchable, it's too slow. Let's ask producer Craig first, who saw this movie, and we'll get his review at the end.

But Craig, you watched this for the first time. Was it slow to you? It was not slow to me. I mean, the movie's only an hour of 45. I thought the second, I mean, it gets to Kathy Bates pretty quickly. And the second you see here, you're just locked in. Okay. There you go.

The Anchorman Flute P-Break. award. Best time to take a pee break during this movie. I would go post-car accident up to when she's shaving him. I think you could just be fine taking a long pee for like four minutes there. The moment she's shaving him, we're off. We're ready to roll. Was there a better title for this movie? I don't think so. It's a hell of a title. Great title. I mean, especially when you meet the pig. Right. Misery the pick. Best quote. I went with this one. You might have something different. You'll never know the fear of losing someone like you if you're someone like me.

And the way she delivers it, it's perfect. It's so good. It's the whole movie in one quote. She doesn't want to lose the guy because she's got nothing going for her. And this is the single most exciting thing that will ever happen to her and she knows it. as a writer what's the name of that dago painted the ceiling is the best line in the movie so i can't fathom how good a line that is it's like it's perfection it's as good you know that is as good screenplay line as you could possibly find i had that as the book about metals award for belatedly best quote what's that what's that ceiling that dago painted yeah what's that ceiling that dago painted that's the best like that is that is the kind of thing like come on that's when where you're a screenwriter and you see that line, you just drop your head.

You're just kind of like, like, yeah, you just can't. That's like as good as it, that's, that's as good as you can do as a screenwriter. The Stephen A. Smith, hottest take award. Here's my hottest take. I think this is the best, best actress performance of the 90s, 2000s, 2010s, or this decade. I think it's the best character. I think it's the best performance of the character.

I think it's the most famous kind of performance we've had. I'll give you four others. I'll give you three others that won and then three that didn't win. Because I went through all the best actresses. Francis McDormand in Fargo. Halle Berry and Monsters Ball. Emma Stone and La La Land. I think are the three that would be in the argument.

And I think Kathy Bates blows all those away. then I also have Streep and Devil Wears Prada, Ann Hathaway and Rachel getting married. And I love Laura Linney and you can count on me. She's incredible in that movie. I still feel, and you could go through, I'm sure there's more. You could go to Julian Moore with the one where she...

Actually, the one you're leaving out is, I mean, Charlize and Monsters, incredible. I just don't love that movie. Well, it's so unrelenting and dark, but... I just think misery is a much better movie. To me, this is... I feel the same way about... Hopkins is Hannibal Lecter. I don't know if that's the best of the last, but it's the same

thing where it's just like, I'll never forget the experience of seeing this movie in the theater with this complete lunatic and just an incredible actress, just the perfect role for them. So anyway, that's my, that's my hot take. Casting What Ifs. The role of Paul Sheldon, this is from Goldman, offered to William Hurt twice, Kevin Klein, Michael Douglas, Harrison Ford, Dustin Hoffman, De Niro, Pacino, Richard Dreyfus, Gene Hackman, Robert Redford, all of them turned it down. And Dreyfus, I think, was the one who expressed real regret.

So did Ben Midler. Then we also, Rob Reiner was an uncredited appearance as the helicopter pilot in this movie, which I didn't realize until I did the research. We also have our guy, J.T. Walsh as state trooper. Next award is the Ruffalo-O-Hanna-Rubeneck Partridge Overacting Award. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady! I come in here.

I give these things to you. Give me all you got! Give me all you got! I treated you like a son! You fucking stand me in the heart! Fuck you! I don't think there's overacting in this, do you? I wouldn't change one minute of Kathy Bates.

Kathy Bates is perfect. She's perfect, so no. And that's the only big performance. Because then you're saying she didn't throw a perfect aim, and I think she did. Best that guy. It's got to be Farnsworth for at least the Craig's generation. It's totally, or it's Sternhagen.

Yeah, maybe the lawyerly is better. Because she's Cliff Clavin's mom, right? And I'm not even positive. I knew her name. But you knew she was from Cheers, right? I imagine she was kind of a that lady. Yeah, that's better. She's a better choice.

She also wins the Dionne Waiter's Award. Sure. She's barely in the movie. She's really good. Recasting couch, if we're not doing Jimmy Con. I feel like Lauren Bacall could have hit harder. It felt very TV movie-ish

every time she was in it. I agree. It's how she was... That has to do with, like, the way they were trying to contrast, the cosmopolitan way she was dressed

her whole vibe with Kathy Bates, right? I mean, they literally picked... They were really trying to create a lot of distance there, but I agree with you. I'll give you two.

Other people could have done it. Go ahead. Stay down away. sure perfect jane fonda that's the one yeah that's what i had to have fat half fast internet research there was some james con are we sure he can make it through an entire shoot without without unraveling a little bit by the way james con incredible twitter feed i don't know if you follow him on twitter but he'll tweet pictures from his movies and he's still going um but apparently once he showed to the set hungover, all his scenes he shot that they were unusable.

Rob Reiner told Conn, we had to do the scenes again because there was a problem at the lab. Khan found out secondhand. It was in the lab. It was that he was hungover and wanted to cover the money. He lost for the studio that day out of his paycheck. I mean, that's awesome. There are a couple of scenes that it feels like, to me, were looped. Even though it's inside, like, the way they shot it.

Like that later on, they thought the performance was questionable. So they just had them go into the studio and say, words again and stuck them in their mouths. A few of the scenes, it's pretty clear just watching it that they were looped, and I wonder if that's why. Stephen King said Annie Wilkes is his favorite character that he's ever written. Love it. James Conn and Kathy Bates, they had a little acting clash in this. She was a big rehearsal person, and he was a big, let's see how it goes as we're doing it person. And Ryanner eventually found a middle ground for the two of them. Did it a Broadway adaptation in 2015, Bruce

Willis was Paul Sheldon, perfect. Lori McHaff was Annie Wilkes. Goldman wrote it. He was all excited about it. They also did season two, a castle rock on Hulu. There's a special feature on the DVD where a forensic psychologist

described Danny as, quote, a virtual catalog of mental illness. It's really all there. The fake legs were molded out of gelatin, and they used, there were a wire on the prosthetic angle so they would bend at the right thing and they had holes in the bed so con could put his legs in the bed and then uh you mentioned the substance abuse stuff so king didn't talk about that for

two decades after this book and then finally admitted that um the kathy bates character represented his dependency on drugs and what it did to his body the hobbling was represented how he couldn't escape the drugs he was putting this in his books you know like tommy knockers is clearly yeah yep so he didn't say if for years because he was so happy with how the book came out he didn't want to attract from it. Apex Mountain, Bates, no question. Crazy obsessed fans in a movie? I mean, King of Comedy.

Yeah, you're right. That's number one. It's funny because DeNiro's done this twice because then he did the fan, which is terrible. Our guy, Tony Scott, but still a bad movie. But King of Comedy is, you know, I mean, for the, it's the number. It's got to be because it was first. Also. Good point. Colorado? What about the overlook? The overlook hotel has to be. Stephen King movies, no. What is the apex for? It's probably Shawshank, right?

It's Shawshank or the Sharshank or the Shining or, I mean, look, Stand By Me is kind of perfect, you know? I mean, stand by me is a heartbreaking movie. But yeah, Shawshank, let's stop playing these. Shawshank's basically considered like one of the five best American movies now. Like, yeah, Shoshak. Rob Reiner. I think it's a few good men. You could also argue it's when Harry met Sally. No, I like...

I know you want to say America. For you, it's American president. Princess Bride, American president. We forgot to mention Princess Bride. We're doing all the Reiner movies. How did I fuck that up? I don't mean, Princess Bride is crucial and important. And that's right up there.

And, you know, the wine scene, it's funny, the Iocaine powder, he's trying to put Iocaine powder in her wine, basically. Like in Princess Bride. The 1974 Jeep Cherokee S. I think this was Apex Mountain. Love it. The 1966 Ford Mustang, probably not. Liberace?

That's the other, I'm so glad you brought that up, because that was my other quote that I wanted to mention. That line is incredible. Do you like Liberace? I'm going to go put out of my Liberace records, incredible. It's great.

We have a new category. Was this their Hall of Fame plaque movie? for special occasions like this one. I think for Kathy Bates, if she goes in the Hall of Fame, it's Annie Wilkes, which is tough for her for the plaque, but I think it's Annie Wilkes

would be the plaque. I mean, she is amazing. I mean, just to talk about it for a second, because you're 100% right. Absolutely the performance. But she is one of those actors who's never less than incredible. She's incredible in everything she's in.

She is an all-star, like first-team, all-of-game actor. best racehorse name from the movie I mean misery obviously would be great I don't know who would bet on that naming just the horse Annie Wilkes I think would be interesting and then dragon nurse would be the other one I think would be a really good horse name

and then Sheldon's misery too Sheldon's misery yeah that's good Sheldon's misery is a good one I have a few picking nits, Coppelman do it Annie said she followed him when he got into the car accident and that's how she knew

he was in the accident. But if you watch the opening credits, which I did, because I'm a psycho and I'm also the host of the rewatchables, there's no car behind him in any point. It's never tipped off. They have a couple wide shots

where it's like, it shows a lot of the mountain and she's just not there. So I don't know. I don't know how she would have seen the accident. She could have been following him on a snobabial in the woods. This is a permanent nitpick.

This is a pretty good section, permanent nitpicks. Yeah. when evil people or villains keep scrapbooks of all of their evil deeds. It's always ludicrous. Who does this? If you're evil and you have all this baggage, I'm definitely not putting that in my living room. Except this is the only thing.

They do it. The fucking serial killers do it. They keep the weird shit. They keep like the bones and they keep the dog tags and they keep all the weird shit. Put it in the attic? Yeah, yeah, hide it. Definitely hide it better. At least under your bed?

hide it better. It's not like, oh, I left this out in the living room. This is a great nitpick, and I'm really proud of it. I think you're going to enjoy it. I just feel like Paul would have owned his own place in Colorado at this point. Why is he staying in a hotel? He's fucking rich. His books sold a million books.

What is he doing with his money? He couldn't have bought a second home in Colorado instead of just staying at the fucking same lodge for 20 years? You're Paul Sheldon. Buy a place. Buy a place. It's lucky. Come on.

We mentioned this was the worst search party of all time. So I have some questions about the dragon lady and the nurse and all that stuff. She got out of jail after killing all those kids? Me too. Why wasn't she in jail? We never learned why she's not in jail. I guess criminal insane and then they let you out for being insane. I thought about it.

That's what I thought. Okay, which brings us back to the worst search party of all time. So the criminally insane nurse who's been let out of jail after the murder, babies, but I just feel like if a nurse is murdering multiple babies in a hospital, it's probably more than like a seven-year sentence. I agree. Here's another nitpick. So I have the knife.

This woman's a maniac. She just talked about how the rain makes her suicidal and the whole thing. And now it's like, I have the knife. I'm going to practice what happens when she comes in. I'm going to doze off. I'll wake up in the morning and see how I can handle this. I'm not going to sleep that night. I'm there with the knife.

I am up all night. I'm just waiting. Maybe I make a noise to get in and to come in. What I'm not doing is falling asleep, worrying that she might realize that I got out and she's going to stab me. I mean, he's pretty injured. He's tired out from going out there

and doing all that stuff. Well, he deserved to lose the knife. My last one is just, I always think about this with these movies where somebody's bedridden. I just feel like the pooping, peeing situation, would just be way bigger. They show the one P.

The one P when she's jocelyn around with the P is pretty... But he's eating like Fetuccini Alfredo. There's going to be some poops. He's just not hanging out in his boxer, in his boxers, right? How is he pooping? What's the poop situation? Is there a bedpan? And then it's like, if there's a bedpan now, his like dick and balls are involved,

and come on. Goodness gracious. We just ignore all this stuff with movies like this. He's in bed for six months. There's some pooping. How much of that? Why does this make you so uncomfortable? I don't understand.

How much of it did you want to see? Because I think about, okay, you want to know why? Because I'm thinking about if you're making that movie, you're going to really devote the time to that. And then you're going to, so everyone on the crew, everyone's shooting. Okay, what are we shooting today? You're looking like the call sheet. The bed pants.

Like, oh, yeah, we're doing the bedpants stuff. So we're going to need some closeups on the bedpan. Then you're talking to the prop person. And the prop person's coming to going, are we going to want to actually see poo? And then there's a meeting. And it's like, well, no, okay, how do we indicate? I mean, it's a lot of hassle for something that you're going to cut in editing. I have a fix.

I have a fix. Put a little toilet in the room. Maybe even like a kid's toilet. Just something. Sure. I don't know. I just feel like bedpants would have. Next category is sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable.

If you had to remake this, would you remake it? Would be your second crack at it? I'm going to throw this at you. prestige TV limited series either flip the genders or make it same sex could you get seven episodes out of this for Paramount Plus

you could flip the you could flip the genders I think or make it same sex and I think it maybe it would be I think flipping the genders would be fascinating and kind of like really really compelling to see would you make that

would you make the if it's a male nurse flip the genders you is he's straight or gay? Or is it just unclear, ambiguous? I don't know how I would do it. In a weird way, the movie, I'm not sure you could successfully pull it off because, I mean, all the things, but you'd have to set it period because, like, no, I think you can pull it off because I think it's two women. I think if you make this again, it's two women, and that's how you do it. But you set it period, right? Because you can't set it

now. They're too findable. But I think that would be part of, that would be part of the fun of doing it, right? Like, there's a cell phone. He's got to get it. It's a remote location, but there's all the wearables, all the ways, like the cameras everywhere, you know what I mean? I mean, there's no, every road now you would just know where he went. Yeah. See, now I'm challenging you. I feel like you and Levine could do this. Modern 22, all-female misery. We'll put it on the, we'll put it on the list. We'll get to it around 20, 20, 30, 70s. Pitch that to Nevins. Sure thing. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Catherine Hahn, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Phil Baker Hall.

We don't need to answer this one because J.T. Walsh is in it. Right in the movie. Done. Just want to Oscar. But Philip Baker Hall would have been incredible in the Richard Farnsworth. Oh my God. Yeah, you're right. Just one Oscar who gets it, obviously, Bates. Probably unanswerable questions. I have one, but it ties in another category. Do you have any other inanswerable questions? No, I think, because the only unanswerable questions I have. had we're all about her nursing time.

So, no, we covered the question. I have an answerable question. I think Sheldon misses the next season where they go into the Boston Garden and then they come back from 2-0 and they win game 5 in the garden. He's hobbled at that point. He has no idea it happened.

Floor seats the whole thing. But that was 88, wasn't it? No, that was 90. 90. That's when they make this movie. So I think he misses that season. That's funny. What is your ideal double-feature choice

for this movie? Sorry, 88 is when we beat Detroit and then we went to the Celtics and lost. Yes. That was 88. Yep. Sorry. No, that was 84. No, 84.

That was 84. My 18th birthday. You're right. That was 84. Yep. That's right. Best double featured choice for this movie. What would you pair misery with?

I'm watching two movies. My choice was stand by me. I would do stand by me in misery. Did double Rob Ryan or Stephen King? I would go Dead Zone. Dead Zone and Misery. Okay. Next category.

is the Andy and Red... Oh, I have a better one. Sorry, and it flips it. It's something wild for Ray Leota. And because if you think about the flip, it's like a flip on it. He's the crazed person stalking and chasing after the person.

Something wild. And because that movie moves and moves. You know what? I think we're both wrong. I think it's King of Comedy and Misery. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.

I love it. I think that's the move. Fair enough. I love it. The Andy and Red Zawanteney Award for what happens. happens the next day. So we see Paul Sheldon 18 months later. He's at the four seasons of Lauren Baccarlo thing. But we don't know what happens like the next 48 hours. I have some

questions. How does he get out of the house? How does it so does he crawl to the car? Does he get the Farnsworth? He's got to get the car keys. He's got to crawl out the house, which is going to take some time. He still has the fucked up legs. He's got to to somehow get to the car, he's got to drive the car with the broken legs? This is a whole, like, featurette. He's just waiting, he's just waiting for the, for the, for the cops to come. What if they don't come? They didn't come the whole time.

No, they're coming because the cop car, they're coming. They're coming to look for their missing sheriff. And how do we know? Follow the path of where the sheriff went, because his wife, they know. So you don't think he crawls to the car? I think he crawls to the car. I think he tries to get to the car, but I think that the,

oh, maybe he gets to, did the sheriff come in the cop car? No, he came in like his truck. Right, he comes in his truck. And does he have a thing? Maybe he has a walking talk to. Maybe there's a walking in the truck. Because I was thinking a better ending would be

he gets in the car, but he can't drive it because of his broken legs and he has another car accident. That's the end of misery. I also like, what is the next week like for him? Is this like cover of People magazine? Oh, yeah. 100%. That's a great question. Of course, it's the cover of People Magazine. It's the Tonight Show.

Does he do it? So he's on the Tonight Show like six months later? He's down, like two weeks later, he's on The Tonight Show. I feel like he's doing Today Show. But Carson, you figure he's been on Carson a lot. And Carson probably got him to make an appearance. What piece of memorability would you want from this movie? I know. I have one. What shows? No, you go. I want the unfiltered cigarette. Wow, that's a good one. That's what I want, the unfiltered cigarette. I wanted the typewriter.

That's great. I know why you want. Typewriter's great to want. I have a good thing. I want the typewriter with the blood on it, the fake blood on it from the last scene. One of the absolute best days, truly like other than days with my family and things like that,

one of the best sort of like wild and sane getting to do something days I ever had was I got to spend a day with Stephen King once. before I did this, before I was making movies, it was a weird set of circumstances. We were in Memphis, Tennessee. He came to this recording session with a friend, a friend of mine, and we played poker.

And we played poker all afternoon and hung out and went to dinner at the rendezvous in Memphis for ribs. And then he tried to kill you. And you're going to love this. And he explained this is 1993, and he explained that he's allowed, because this is when we're playing poker,

he allowed himself exactly four cigarettes a day because he quit smoking, but he had four cigarettes a day. Wow. That's what he would allow himself. And he was- Oh, that becomes such a big part of the day to try to figure out the times for the four.

The four cigarettes a day. And so when I look at this movie, I know it's directly out of his life. Like, because he was like, look, I can do four cigarettes a day that way. I'm not damaging, in his mind, I don't know that, you know, my lungs are okay. I'm doing whatever. I won't be more addicted. But the four cigarettes, I got to have them.

And so we're playing poker. And he had, like Paul, he has the one cigarette just sitting there on the table, waiting for the moment that is going to go outside and have the one cigarette. That's a great way to do it. I should have thought of that. But that's what I want the cigarette. The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lessons. I mean, the easy one is don't have fans.

It's tough one to pull off, but I don't know. What is the life lesson from this movie? Like, maybe don't drive a 66 Mustang during a blizzard? Those cars aren't built for inclement. Yeah. Maybe check the weather before you leave your lodge. I crashed one of those once, like not 66 on Mustang in bad weather with my daughter in the car. And it was just, we almost went off of a side of a road because the third.

just couldn't hold the turns. So that's the life lesson. You check the weather. I was going to bring the Mustang up. I love them. I love them. So my favorite experiences ever have been in a Mustang convertible, for real, but in California only.

Also, what I mentioned earlier, if you're doing as well as Paul Sheldon, buy your own fucking place. Buy your place in Colorado. What are you doing? Get a second home. Nope, great taxes in Colorado. I mean, how about this?

Have a routine where you check in with people before and after. you leave someplace. Like, they should have been looking for him sooner. Yeah, I agree. Who won the movie, Kathy Bates, right? No doubt. Kathy Bates and Reiner, because it just continued for him. But yeah, Kathy Bates.

One winner, Kathy Bates. You're going to text me like three days from now because you're going to be thinking about my best actress performance since 1990. Bates call. It's already bothering me. It's already bothering. I know it's going to bother you. And three days from now, you're going to text me and be like,

Dude, and they'll have some, you'll have some performance. Let's be honest, 98% of the texts to you over the next week are going to be about Brunson. I mean, that's really what I'm going to be texting you about is Brunson. It's so upsetting to me. I like that, Zia Hartstein. He's good. Listen, Brunstein is good ballplayer. Brunstein?

Sorry, Brunson is a really good ball player. I was really rooting for the Mavs. Like, there's a lot of stuff going on there that I like in the playoffs this year. but I didn't look at him and think to myself, that's the future of the next. That's what's going to bring the next. You can't think of it that way. It's a piece.

Now, you're just trying to assemble pieces and you're getting ready for the Donovan Mitchell blow-up trade. Just getting ready for it. RJ and picks. You'll have Brunson and Donovan Mitchell is your back court and you're in business. Where are Kyrie and Katie going, Bill? Well, we're taping this on a Friday,

and Kyrie will somehow end up on the Lakers or just not playing next season. And KD? KD have no idea. I think my gut would be KD stays in Brooklyn because I don't think they'll find a trade that they're happy enough with and they'll just try to take it to the season and do a little staring match with them. They're not going to take 60 cents a dollar. I do want to be clear. Like I will go and root for Brunson. Like I want him to do well. I like him. He's great. I cheer for him. I just have just seen us spend huge money on this kind of piece before.

And it doesn't usually work out in the way. The pressure on him now, to score 20 a game, to play a different game than the game he plays. He's really good. I think he's going to do it. Before we go, Craig, give us your take. You'd never seen this move before. I'll never see Kathy Bates the same way again. She terrified me, probably more than any character I can remember, to be quite honest.

I also want to shout out One thing I think James Con really nailed was his ability to put on a happy face and like change like He's like I know I'm terrified I know this woman's nuts I need to play her game I need to smile and be like

This spam is delicious Like you're right we do need to rewrite it He nailed that This movie's awesome I'm so glad he liked it Sometimes I worry with these older ones This movie's 32 years old at this point But I'm glad you liked it too

No, I can appreciate it. All right, I'm glad you liked to Craig Cappellman. It was a joy and a pleasure to see you as always. Shout out to our friend Goldman. I hope he's not freaking out right now in heaven about the Brunson thing. I hope he's taking it fine. We'll be back on the rewatchables. Next week, see you then.