The Rewatchables - 'Mission: Impossible' With Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Jason Concepcion

Episode Date: July 26, 2018

The Ringer's Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey and Jason Concepcion revisit the 1996 action/thriller 'Mission: Impossible' starring Tom Cruise and Jon Voight and directed by Brian De Palma.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the rewatchable's mission impossible. Simple game. Is he serious? They knew we were coming. Do you read me? To do the impossible. This is going to be a... fun one guys. Sean Fennacy, what's up?

I brought the knock list. Jason Concepcion. Hello. It's my own special IMF team. I'm Chris Ryan. This is the rewatchables Mission Impossible. 1996 Blockbuster. Very special time, I think, in the three of our lives, right? Just really like living that Jonah Hill mid-90s life.

I was wildly pubescent. Yes. And this was released in 1996 directed by Brian DePalma, produced by Tom Cruise and Paul Wagner. It was their first sort of production as producers for themselves. It was their own shingle that they were working from. It was written by, and I use this term loosely, Robert Town, David Kep, and Steve Zalian,

although largely I think it was Kepin and Town and De Palma and Cruz who kind of worked on this script, and we're going to get a lot into that as we go on. When Cruz brought this idea to Paramount, and when he said he'd like to make the mission impossible into a movie, there was some resistance. I mean, they've been kicking this around, for, I think, some reports say, upwards of 11 years.

Wow. There had been an idea that maybe we should make a Mission Impossible movie. But when the fugitive came out, and there's a rewatchables on the fugitive, if you want to check that out. Good episode. The fugitive proved that there was box office potential in television IP on the big screen. And there had already, you know, obviously this was a time when there was probably a little bit more of a adversarial relationship. And if you were a TV star, you were stuck there forever. You were never going to make the transition to the big screen.

screen and I think that there was probably some mutual hostility on both parts. But this showed that you could go back to these classic things that people remembered fondly like the fugitive like Mission Impossible. And obviously in the years to come we would see more and more and more of these classic things. Classic title is coming back. This is an act of erasure of the Brady Bunch movie, which happened one year earlier. Just want you to please acknowledge that.

But didn't the Brady Bunch movie also kind of prove the point, right? Yes. Yeah. You're trying to say that somehow Mission Impossible and the fugitive did this. But what about Jan though? You're right. And everybody who was worked on the movie. Pretty much went on to rule Hollywood for the next 20 or 30 years.

This was budgeted at 80 million. I would love to see the books on that. It wound up making 457 million worldwide, but more importantly, launched a franchise that is still going. And we do this podcast in honor of the upcoming release of Mission Impossible Fallout, which is out this weekend. Number six. And sounds like alive and still kicking, right?

Fantasy, you've seen it. I loved it. I loved it. I let's not do that here, but I love it. Sure. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see it. We'll have plenty of potting about fallout to come, but let's talk about Mission Impossible. One of the things that, you know, often comes up, especially of people of our ages and people who are older than us, it's a trope.

It's an adage used as long as we've been talking about movies is they don't make them like this anymore. And I don't know if they ever made them like this. This is a weird movie, and it's partially its weirdness and its uniqueness and its uniqueness. and it felt like it was on the cusp of a new kind of blockbuster, and they weren't quite sure of the rules yet. This was an incredible blockbuster, Summerman. Independence Day, Twister, Ransom, sneakily, a very big box office success that summer.

This is probably the peak of Cruz's career. He does Mission Impossible in the summer and Jerry McGuire in the fall and winds up being a real awards contender. You know, this was a time, it's still a time when the movie's hell enough of a dominant, over the cultural imagination that you would go see movies two, three times in a summer. Yeah. Specifically, like the same movie.

And that's what kind of powered some of these huge numbers you're seeing. You might need to see this movie twice to understand it, too. Well, that's the thing. That was the criticism, the big criticism of this movie. Personally, I went from kind of, I think, being, frankly, even right out of high school, I didn't get it the first time I saw it. I don't think I understood what was going on. I didn't understand the depth of references.

and I certainly didn't understand the very subversive depalma psychosexuality of some of the scenes. And then I think it became an ironic watch for a little while there. It was kind of like dead tech and like, oh, the train and the hanging in the Langley vault and all this stuff.

And it was like, oh, this is on. This is pretty good. And now I think it's kind of taken on this sort of critical adoration because it's, You get somebody like De Palma, who has such a decided point of view, making with all the toys. All the toys are at his disposal. He gets the entire toy chest.

And it's kind of wild to see him working with the biggest movie star in the world, three of the great screenwriters of the last 30 years, desperately trying to write a screenplay as the movie is shooting. So they did not have a script as the movie was shooting. And they're still writing around these set pieces that they're devising and trying to figure out, this is like the big sleep again, man, where they're like, I don't know if this movie actually makes any sense and we're going to get to that.

So guys, I just want to turn it over to you. What are your memories of this movie and what do you think makes it rewatchable? Sean, we can start with you. There's two things. Inside the movie, the Langley Drop is the iconic image of him hanging. And as I have been rewatching the other Mission Impossible movies,

I realize that they called back to that specific moment every time, which I didn't realize was a hallmark until I started rewatching these movies, which is great. So that is the visual. image. The other thing for me is as I get older and as I get more obsessed with Brian De Palma as many big movie fans do

in their 30s and 40s, I realize that this is his last great movie. And it's kind of sad, but it's also the movie that in some ways his career is sort of building towards. And it's, which is not to say like franchise IP or a movie star vehicle or any of this stuff, but it has this, it

takes something that could have been bland in someone else's hands and makes it like pure sex, pure action, pure dynamic movie making. He's so good at making every set piece sing. He's so good at making everything that is confusing seem even more confusing, but interesting. And I'm sure we'll talk about

every character and scrap of dialogue and the way that the camera is positioned, but he's so fucking good. I love Brian DePama's movie making. And what's wild about this was that they hired him off of Bonfire of the Vanities. Which is like, you know, there are books written about this at the

adaptation of that book. And De Palma literally, like, had just burned a pile of money for a studio. And they were like, yeah, I don't know. I'm not, I still think he's got it. And he does have it. He's an incredible filmmaker. But he's obviously, it was a really strident individual artist working with this in this studio system.

And you can feel that when you're watching the movie. Yeah, for me, De Palma is at his best when he's like less, he's 20% less De Palma. Yes. Like, that stuff is still there. There's that great shot of when Emilio Est of his hacker character is in the, is in elevator shaft and the camera pulls out and pans up and you see the floors of the building, that kind of stuff is very DePaul-esque. But when he is not allowed to do that all the time, I think he's great.

When the sexual stuff is under the surface and not necessarily like totally wildly overt, that to me is great to me. I think this is his second best movie? It's up there. It's interesting. I mean, your mileage may vary. If you and I think are similar in that respect where, like I really admire body double

but body double is like right on the surface. It's just like here is how everyone thinks about sex especially if you're fucked up. And this movie is obviously doing something completely different. It's meant to be for a mass audience. It's not a Hitchcock homage. It's not these things that he was adapting over the years

and trying to re-contextualize. So I don't know. I don't know where it would rank in my... I still have like a real fondness for Carlito's way even though I don't think it's as like very well regarded within the DePaul Mac Cannon. I also really like untouchables too.

I love blowout. One of the interesting things about this movie is just knowing about the way it was made, which was, you know, you hear about this more and more now where they're going to start shooting this movie, but somebody's still writing the script and parts are still being cast. There was a premiere magazine article about the movie written by Tom Friend around the time of its release that was largely even talked a lot with some of the people involved. I just want to give you a snapshot of how the creative process on this movie worked.

this is friend writing there were 4 a.m. last minute faxes volleyballed to town kept to town again begging for revisions and all were mostly De Palma's doing he had read Town's original ending to the movie and he had hated it and had gone to cruise on an alternate plan

quote Bob thought that we would resolve the movie with a character revelation in the box car leaning toward a Maltese falcon type of ending says De Palma I'd constructed a high speed chase scene on the top of the train and I thought the movie needed this visceral ending to work. Of course, the cost was huge, and if we hadn't

had my ending, we would have saved millions of dollars, and, you know, there's blah, blah, blah, and then basically they eventually, Tom sided with De Palma. Now, the interesting thing about this is that most of this movie feels like a Bond movie, or a Hitchcock movie,

or maybe the Roy Shider parts of Marathon Man, creepy European espionage, not what we now associate with Mission Impossible, which is dudes, off of the tallest skyscraper in the world. The skeleton is there, though. It's basically, like, all the Mission Impossible movies

is basically follow the template of three great set pieces. One is a cold open, snappy dialogue, and a big finish. And that's, this movie gives you that. Yeah. That's what this movie is. There's always a MacGuffin. There's always a, like, a knock list, a rabbit's foot. Some virus.

A chimera virus, you know. But you're right. I mean, it's interesting that there was confusion in front of, frustration over the structure that they used because they used the same exact structure in every single movie that came forward. And that's kind of when you know you've hit on something. And I've been trying to write about this and try to figure out why this is such an elastic and undying franchise. And it's because it's the same movie in a good way in a way that doesn't disappoint us. You mentioned the words elastic and undying, which are two words I would use to describe Tom Cruise.

Wow. It's really wild to go back and watch Cruz because you see shades of his performances, both the past, ones and the future ones. And there's a little bit of like the Tom, top gun brashness. There's a little like that maverick when he's like going up to Jean Reno and doing the magic trick with the disc. Yeah, I know what you're thinking.

I was up here. He was down there. Yeah. And he makes the disc disappear. And there's a little bit of the Jerry Maguire anxiety, nervousness. A lot of the edges from Cruz have been sanded down. I think he takes less risks now, obviously. He still makes good movies.

But I think that this was a time when you have to really like, take the younger listeners back to the idea that this was the biggest movie star in the world who was regularly working with people like Paul Thomas Anderson and Cameron Crow and Aaron Sorkin and doing really provocative, interesting mainstream work. You know, he had been in color of money, Rayman born on the 4th of July and a few good men to show his acting chops. And he is also a movie star with Top Gun, Days of Thunder, and The Firm, which is a movie we both like a lot, Sean.

Shout out to Bill Simmons, who does not like it. Where do you see this in the Tom Cruise continuum? What does this movie mean in the sort of traipsing back through his filmography? Unfortunately, it screwed up his career, which is a shame because it made him an action star. And he was a movie star without action, with the exception of kind of your Days of Thunder, Top Guns style action, which is a little bit different than what it meant to be a Tom Cruise action star. Now, after this movie, he does really interesting stuff. You already mentioned Jeremy McGuire, Eyes Wide Shut, and Magnolia. are to come. And so obviously, in that moment, he seems very pointedly pursuing a kind of, I don't know, like lauded Oscar-worthy kind of role. He doesn't get the Oscar in any of those roles. And his last big hit is Mission Impossible. So what does he do? He returns time and again to Mission Impossible. Minority Report, The Last Samurai, Collateral, War of the World's Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible Two.

Valkyry, you know, night and day, and on and on and on. And almost every movie that he makes for henceforth is in an action style. And the only ones that are genuinely, truly, massively successful like the movies that came before are Mission Impossible movies. And that's where we find him now. It seems like he tries to recreate some of the buzz around the Mission Impost. We were talking before the podcast started about when he, like, rode a motorcycle across Europe for night and day's promo tour. We've been talking about this a little bit in the office. When was the moment when Tom Cruise became Jackie Chan, like American Jackie Chan?

When was the moment when his brand became, I did that. I hung off the building. I hung off the side of the aircraft. That's how we're going to, in part, market this movie. Honestly, the day that they hired John Wu to make Mission Impossible to. Because that image of him hanging off the cliff, I was just talking to Shea Serrano about this, that image of him hanging off the cliff at the cold open of that movie, basically sets the template for

what oh shit thing will he do next? And that was how we graded all these movies. And I agree with you, Chris, that in this movie when you rewatch the original, it's much more complex and more fun and more rewarding and not kitschy anymore. He's closer to Daniel Caffey than he is what the Ethan Hunt we know now as.

Yes. Who is Superman? Yeah, essentially. You know, there's that moment in three where he's on the bridge and the bomb goes off in the car and he gets thrown against the car and he just gets up.

Yeah. It's like, that would kill most people? Yeah. There's a whole scene in this movie where he's tired. Yeah. He's tired in surfing the net. I mean, there's very relatable. I mean, when Claire comes back to the apartment,

and he's been like on that jag of being on the internet for whatever it is, 20 straight hours and he does the Tom Cruise, I'm extremely tired, so I'm going to blink a lot thing? Like, you just don't see Tom Cruise that way anymore. It's true. He went to some sort of steroidal Bonzian place after. this. Yes. And I think that I also wonder whether or not, because we were talking a little bit about

the movies of 96, and what I really remember about that era is the way in which Hollywood studios and specifically blockbuster producers seem to realize that there was a market inefficiency in not casting stars in blockbusters. If people cared, if you said, hey, Twister's about a tornado. Do you care if Bill Paxson and Helen Hunter in it or if Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan are in it? And that was bad for guys like Tom Cruise Because it started to be that these higher concept movies didn't really need him And that was fine because he was still making movies with Spielberg

And making movies with Cameron Crow and Paul Thomas Anderson and making these interesting films But I think that that pivot away from like you need a star to sell this thing man And it was now like oh actually if we have aliens invading the earth Bill Pullman can be the second most famous person in this movie Well, I think he's managed the transition to IP filmmaking pretty well. But I think that's a great point. Like, do you need a Tom Cruise anymore? Do you really need a Tom Cruise anymore?

Is he the last guy that is like the megastar? He and Paula Wagner made a very savvy choice by choosing this one. Because at this time, I think, you know, it's around the time of Golden Eye and Brosnan who had some success as Bond. But Bond was sort of reaching an expiration, and we needed a cool new spy character. Yeah. So, and the fact that it has sustained, you know, like he has made other efforts towards IP filmmaking. He makes War of the Worlds with Steven Spielberg. He makes The Mummy in 2017.

Those movies are fine. They're never going to go on his Hall of Fame plaque. The Mission Impossible movies do. I mean, in many ways for the generation right beneath us, that's who Tom Cruise is. It's very true. He's Ethan Hunt. And the flip side of this is this is a big IP movie.

The brand is huge, extremely well known. They tried to hand it off to render and it didn't work. So you really do need Tom Cruise. Well, it's a complicated history, and we can talk more about this. We want to get into the awards. But I think that it's important to note that this came out. It was very successful, but I think it had, it obviously was a trouble production. And then they decided to make this, like,

a new director does the next one, and we'll get their specific spin. Wu came through and did the second one. And when did that come out? I believe it's 2000, four years after. And two years later, Born pretty much wipes this one out. Like, Born wipes out Mission Impossible. Because everybody is like, not only is born like an exciting movie, it's like way cooler and feels way more real.

And that kind of like blocked out the sun. Even though Mission Impossible 3 I have a lot of time for it, it took a while for this franchise to find its footing again. Yeah, and six years go by between two and three. I mean, that's a long time. Imagine waiting, we don't even wait six years for Bond movies. Imagine waiting six years for a Marvel movie. That's an extended period of time. Now, actually something I noticed is it's compressing the amount of time that goes by between these films now.

So the time between three and Ghost Protocol was five years. The time between Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation was four years. And the time between Rogue Nation and Fallout is three years. It's interesting to bring up born in the context of this, because I think the two biggest influences on Mission Impossible are born in the Fast and Furious. It's like they took The new versions The newer

They took those two things And they combined them Give me that Nitty Gritty Hand to Hand Combat stuff Which obviously born The Bourne Franchise really elevated

To like an art form Of this kind of like Improvised I'll pick up a pair of sunglasses And stab you in the eye With it kind of thing And then give me the Absolutely over the top action sequence

The car flying through a skyscraper Or whatever yeah And it seems like Those are the two poles of the Mission Impossible franchise as it exists today. All right. Before we get into the awards, I just want to find where does Mission Impossible One rank for you guys in terms of the Mission Impossible movies?

Jason, where does it sit for you? I think number one. It's number one for me, too. It's number one for me too. Three is up there. Yeah. Let's talk after you've seen six. Okay. We'll talk after six.

We'll just redo this entire pot. I can't wait to do it. All right, let's get into the awards, but first let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. Today's episode of The Rwatchables is brought to you by freshly, tired of spending hours on dinner or trying to master those meal kits. Freshly is the new way to get a dinner on the table in no time. Their chefs cook and deliver delicious, freshly prepared meals so that you can eat healthier without any of the work. Each meal is made to order just for you, and with a rotating weekly menu of more than 30 options, there's always something new to try.

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Go to freshly.com slash rewatchables to get $20 off your first six dinners. That's $20 off plus free shipping at freshly.com slash rewatchables. All right, guys, let's do the awards. We do this for every watchables pod. This one, usually these movies are so beloved, I think, and we hold them in such high regard that we kind of skip past things like nitpicks or what's age of the worst or unintentional comedy or unanswerable question. I have a feeling those will get a little bit more attention

just because this film is very much of a time and there's some very interesting choices made in it. But let's start with the positives, obviously, and let's do most rewatchable scene. I have a couple of nominees. There aren't a lot of scenes in this movie, so it's actually quite easy. Now, I'm cheating here,

and I'm going to say the Prague sequence. But I'm doing that specifically because that is presented as a 32-minute opening act. It even has a fade-to-black after Tom Cruise jumps through Akvarium. or Aquarium, obviously, and escapes from Kitridge. But I'm going to just say the Prague sequence as a whole, although there are obviously mini parts inside of the Prague sequence

that you could point out. Another one is Ethan and Max's negotiation. Incredible. The Langley Heist. And the Phelps versus Hunt coffee, where Hunt is seeing what Phelps has done while Phelps is lying to him. That's the scene basically they confuse. a generation of filmgoers.

Yes. I don't think I understood that until I watched it yesterday. And I've seen this movie like 20 times. It's funny. This comes up a lot on the rewatchables. Like movies that we thought we got but we didn't get. Oh, yeah. And now we have trained ourselves to figure out. Yeah.

Hmm, this isn't a tricky one. I think the most iconic, as we mentioned earlier, is the Langley break-in. Yeah. Which is really incredibly staged and has been ripped off numerous times. And also, I think, probably set the precedent for Tom Cruise trying something that seems impossible, even though Wu takes it to another level.

But the scene that I liked watching the best, and I rewounded four times, because I love crazed, loud Tom Cruise, is when he gets on the horn with Kittredge... Abs of fucking... And he says, they're dead. And Kittrich says, what? Who's dead?

And he says, my team. My team is dead! This is Ethan Hunt. They're dead. My team. My team is dead. Jesus. Galitzin's gone.

They knew we were coming, man. They knew we were coming and the disc is gone. Are you intact? The disc is gone. Did you, do you read me? The list is in the open. Listen, I read you. They knew, man.

He goes Ruffalo in this scene before Ruffalo even knew. So Ruffalo. He's just like, they knew, man. They knew we were coming. He's like fucking Bill Paxton and aliens in this scene. It's incredible. Do you read me? The list is in the open.

That whole segment. is so crazy. He seems out of his mind, but it's very entertaining. That's a great bookend to their meaning at Algarium because, you know, up until that point, that's the crews we've seen, loud and brash. He's cracking jokes when John Void is talking about the plan. And then you get him in the restaurant and you realize, oh, he sees everything. Actually, he sees it. He's very cerebral. What about this other team? What about this guy over here? What about the waiters and the two people, the lovers on the banks of the river? Those two things together is just a great contrast, those two scenes.

For me, I think it is the Langley Heist. The Langley Heist. It's just, it's iconic, almost all in silence, which is an incredible choice. There's so many moments of tension when Don Lo is about to come back and he's not going to come back. Shout out to Don Lo, man. And then working, you know, like, it reminds me, my favorite heist movie is Rafi, which has a heist portion where they, very similar, they drill, through the roof and it's all in silence because there's an alarm that is triggered by sound.

And to use that here with the great visual of the digital meter that goes up and down and goes in third, one, two, red, toast, toast, toast. So good. Yeah. And had me on the edge of my seat every time I rewatch it. I'm like, man, this is just. Some great bits to like the rat in the air duct in Langley, like a little bit of like the departed final shot where it's just like the idea that you're hunting.

for this rat that's like betrayed you. You know, I think that I think Top Coppy is another heist movie. Right, that's the way they reference. Same filmmaker. Yeah, Jules Dassen. Yeah.

Yeah, the Langley thing also has one of my favorite heist movie tropes, which is the guy explaining the heist before they do it. He's like, you're going to go down to elevators. And then inevitably it ends with like, you're crazy and he's like, yeah, crazy enough to do it. There's a lot of really good moments in between

Jean-Renaud, Ving Rames, Emmanuel Beard, and crews on the train when they're discussing how they're going to do that, those thinking machines. And he has this Cheshire Cat Grin where he's explaining the heist, and he's just like,

it's even worse than you think. There's something so fun about that. Also, the idea, I think that was the first time I've ever, I ever encountered, the idea of an air-gapped computer, a computer that was actually not connected to the internet for security reasons. I'd never heard of that before.

And now, obviously, you read the news, news and that's an actual thing that people do. Okay, so we'll go Langley gets the best, most rewatchable scene. What's aged the best? Wow. So I have a couple of nominees, but this is tough because I think Mission Impossible is in a race against time. As our digital life expands and changes and we become so used to things, there are some things weirdly it was prescient about, if unrealistic about, such as wireless streaming video.

Yeah. Crystal clear Wireless streaming video But there are some things that obviously Don't you know Don't make sense anymore NetScape Yeah netscape we'll get into that

But I like the I said what age the best The Hitchcockian vibe It's a classic To draw so heavily From the classic Hitchcock films Of the 50s and 60s And to employ them in an espionage movie

Especially in the Prague sequence And I think that that really does still stand the test of time. The other things that I have here are just the cat and mouse format of the set pieces rather than having smash bang, building falling down on you stuff. It's more

about ducking in and out of rooms and putting on masks and wearing disguises and hanging from places. And then the final one would be Cruz's performance, but I'm open to other recommendations here. I think that this is one of the first movies that really made an effort to cast great actors. in the supporting roles, and that's something that really holds up.

You know, Jason, you were saying, like, you don't have to always just have, like, stars in these roles. But Voight at the right stage of his career to be Phelps. And obviously, Phelps is a character from the original television series and the sort of bridging those two things. Manuel Baer, who is an actress that not a lot of American filmgoers had seen before. It's very good genre, no, very similarly coming off of Leon and professional. And kind of what he represents in our mind and the kind of, like, dickishness that he has in this movie. Bing Rames obviously becomes essentially the only other. connecting figure in the wider MI universe.

It was like, I guess, Monaghan, too, eventually. Yes. And also, I mean, Kristen Scott Thomas, for a very brief moment. And Vanessa Redgrave and Emilio Estevez and all of these great actors. And Henry Zerney, shout out to him back in Sharp Objects. Every single character who has a speaking part feels very lived in and feels like they're really like going forth. They know what movie they're in. Yeah, especially.

And I think that there's a bittersweet part to. the Prague sequence because I kind of wouldn't mind of seeing two or three movies of the Emilio Estevez, Kristen Scott Thomas, Tom Cruise team and they kind of set it up like alien where they're like, oh, these people actually know each other

and get along and are busting each other's chops and it's like, oh, I don't make fun of my wife's coffee and that was just like that barn in Kiev and they're kind of like they're really getting along and then the sort of undiscovered country of this entire movie is that

Seen when Cruz and Kristen Scott Thomas are tracking the arms dealer, the guy who's going to steal the knock list and sell it to Max. And they have to like make out while they're watching. And they have like kind of legitimately good chemistry. Not as good chemistry as Cruz winds up having with Vanessa Redgrave, mind you. But they have like legitimately good chemistry and she's an incredible scene partner for him. And it is kind of bittersweet. It's a great, great twist to happen.

35 minutes into a movie where you're like okay this is who's in the movie these are movie stars too I've seen Kristen Scott Thomas as an English patient and Love Estevez and Mighty Ducks and they all just go Again it's completely hitchcocky and it's killing Janet Lee after 40 minutes of psycho that's what it is It's genius and Estevez has

What is one of my favorite lines in the movie Asta lasagna don't get any on you When showing crews how to use the chewing gum explosive Yeah it's good stuff It's great. You know, there's so many little things that stick out to me to red light, green light. Yeah.

Kittred, you've never seen me very upset. Yeah. Like there's a very specific, Robert Town style dialogue sprinkled throughout the movie. You can feel almost like who did what, right? So David Kep is this genius of action sequence plotting, and Steve Zalian is this genius of dramatic storytelling. Yeah. And Robert Town is the king of memorable lines. Yeah.

And they all do all three of those things well. But when you put all those commensurate parts plus Tom Cruise movie starring together, you get like all of these memorable moments that just kind of like ping in the back of your mind over and over and over again. Absolutely. This movie is one of those. Yeah. I love the, I just love DePama's visual flair that, like I said, under control in this movie. There's the one scene where Don Lowe is basically about to get sent to Siberia.

and so Henry Zerney's CIA character is like dressing him down. But he's in the foreground and they're in the background and both are in focus. And that's like the kind of stuff. Movies, especially summer blockbusters, just visually all look the same now. And this is a movie that really has a style when you see it. It just has a look that is charismatic. It's rare to see something that's this stylish and also this fun. Typically you get a Villeneuve movie and you're like, oh, man.

Wow. This is so mind-blowing. Like, you never laugh once during the entire movie. I don't think I've laughed in, like, five Dennyville movies. Wow, that's your guy, too. I love, he's my favorite working filmmaker, but I don't go to him to, like, be, like, elated. You know, and De Palma has a very playful style. So let's go with that for what's age the best, the default, De Palma visual style.

I'm psyched. First, let me, before we do what age is the worst, let's just break here to do casting what ifs, because there actually aren't that many. This was a movie that was put together largely by Cruz and Wagner. It seems like they just moved. forward with what they wanted. The big ones were that Juliet Benoche turned down the role of Claire because she didn't want to be

known for blockbusters. Weird take from Juliet. That largely worked out for her, I think. I think it would have been a fascinating idea for Julia Benoche and Kristen Scott Thomas to star in two different extremely well-seen movies in 1996. This is the same year as the English patient, and that would have just been a funny coincidence.

Peter Graves and Martin Landau from the original series both turned down opportunities to be in the movie after reading the script. They did not like the directions. It was going Peter Graves specifically did not care for Jim Phelps being the villain and Martin Landau thought it was getting away from what made the show good.

I imagine, I wonder if their roles were perhaps not as big as they wanted. I don't know. Martin Landau feeling himself after that Oscar in 94. I don't have a lot of casting what ifs based on rumors of who would be cast at the time, but I do want to talk a little bit about Claire. it's not necessary that Claire was supposed to be European

so I think we can have a little bit of phone with this and I've always kind of missed out ever since a few good men on Cruz doing another movie with Demi Moore and I thought she would make a good Claire and I kind of wonder what the vibe is of this movie so there were sex scenes written into the movie of Claire and Ethan that were taken out there's actually a kiss in the trailer that they don't ever have

there's a lot of grabbing and handsiness between the two of them and there's an intimacy to them obviously I think it's almost implied that they've stepped in the night together right in when she shows up but there's not a lot of chemistry and I kind of wonder what it would have been like if there had been a different

actress in the role it's an interesting question 96 also an interesting year for Demi Moore that's the year of stripties and that's a bit of a left turn I think if someone like her had been or role like that. I think it's ultimately a very underwritten part, which is part of why it doesn't work as well. It's probably one of the weakest aspects of the movie. And, you know, she's

meant to be this kind of Russian doll for Jim's motivations and the way that she's used in the story. That part is also quite Hitchcockian, but I don't know, with a different kind of actress, I wonder if it would have been a better part? Who else is in the, it's like, would you have bought it if it was like, I don't know, Susan Sarandon or something? I mean, who else in that time? Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, Demi Moore is tough for me because I think that's just a much more I think of a more visceral part when I'm thinking of Demi Moore. Whereas Claire had a sphinx-like quality that I think, even though it's absolutely an underwritten part, kind of serviced what the overarching narrative.

She could become a femme fatale at a certain point. Whereas if you see Demi Moore, you're like, something's going to happen. There's going to be fight scene. Maybe you'd be looking for some kind of left turn with her. Yeah. Okay. So maybe I'm off. Maybe Emmanuel Baer is right for that then.

Do you think Max was always a woman? Wow. Because that's one of the great reveals of the movie, obviously, when we meet Vanessa Redgrave. Also takes the movie to a completely other level. Yes, and this will be a good opportunity for you guys to talk about the psychosexuality of Tom Cruise. So we can do Dion Waiters here.

Okay. And let's talk about, let's do the Dion Waiters He Check Award. This is for supporting character actors in the movie that really make the most of their time. Vanessa Redgrave is 59 or 60 in this movie. in this movie, I believe. She was born in 1937. The movie comes out in 60, in 96.

Obviously, is one of the great actresses of the 20th century. It is regarded as such. And here she is in this blockbuster playing an arms dealer named Max, who communicates via Usenet group. And I would argue that she has more sexual chemistry than anyone else in the history of Tom Cruise movies with the exception of Kelly McGillis. Yeah, she looks at him like, He's a steak.

And choose over every line of dialogue that she addresses him, calls him, dear boy. And it's, it is incredible. And it's actually a thing that I didn't appreciate it until, like, recently. Like, the first time I saw it, it just seemed like that's people talking. And to watch it now, it is really, really remarkable. She seems like she's been taking nitrous hits, like the entire time. It is remarkable. I mean, she smiles like a shark when he comes into the room.

that whole scene with him with the shroud and it's like well you know if Max doesn't like what you have to say you'll be wearing a shroud indefinitely and he's kind of looking around with this knit hat

pulled over his face what did you think of this scene it's so deliriously weird the like energy and tension between the two of them who are you and what are you doing here I need $150,000 dollars

really And you thought, if you simply showed up, I might give it to. Why not? You gave Job 125. It drops. You are not. I had a couple of thoughts. I agree with you that there is something sparking between them. And when the shroud comes off and she says, who are you and what are you doing here? That obviously, she, as I said before, like, really knows what movie she's in and she knows to have fun. it does reveal

I don't know if it's a flaw or a nitpick and I know we'll get to that but every villain in the Mission Impossible series I just don't really know what the hell they're after and this movie has kind of two

villains it's Phelps and Max and the whole concept of conquering the world or like arms dealing has always been a bit elusive to me as the crux of a movie it doesn't really matter for this movie to work at all

but I don't fully understand like what Max and Phelps have going on there? Are they just trying to shift money around? Is that what she's doing? Yeah, I think that he, I mean, when Phelps articulates it back to Ethan, and he's supposed to be talking about Kitridge, and he's just like, I'm a tool for a war that isn't going on anymore, and I realize, like, I'm being farmed out and I make $60,000 a year.

So it's basically like this bitterness of loss of use and probably feeling like the world left him behind. Isn't it so weird that this is also the same year that the rock came out, and that's the same line that Ed Harris has at the end of the rock? So what was in the air in this sort of post-desert storm time in American history where, you know, military folk are distressed by the way that they've been used by their government? It's the Fukuyama end of history thing. I mean, the wall came down and everybody was like, hey, it's over, guys.

It's done. And you're like, wait a second. Not only if I've been like, like, this is my career, but like you got, I got fat off the land, you know, worrying about this stuff. And now I'm just supposed to be a consultant or something. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, Redgrave, what you guys are saying is, she's fucking awesome. So some of the other Dion Waiters Award, and you could basically just run down through the entire cast list.

But I've got Henry Zerney, who really. Same guy in all these movies. Did not pop off after Mission Impossible, but was, his performance, I think, fell over the top when I first saw this movie and is now excellent. I love him in this movie. His interplay with Barnes is very funny. Dale Die. Yeah, yeah. I really enjoy all of those.

segments, the way he kind of like muscles and bullies him throughout the movie. Also, like, the weird choices where, like, when he's, when the pursuit of hunt starts, he dresses like a G-man from the 30s, he's got like the overcoat and the fedora. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense, really. He really got a lot of mileage out of that, like, a bureaucrat who's a dick. Yeah. Like, after clear and present danger, which is, to me, the iconic Henry's Ernie performance.

Like, he has managed to make a career through at the 9th. of like that guy, the kind of like office infighter who's very good at it. We also have Emilio Estevez, obviously, you know, coming off of Young Guns, it seemed like he was just doing a like a fun bit for like as a cameo, but kind of like never showed up in a blockbuster movie again. Like when was the last time that he was in a in a movie like this where he's a member of a cast? It's like, I guess Young Guns, but he was the star of that movie. Yeah.

And then it's like, what, the outsiders? Like, this is, it's just really that Tom Cruise was also in, so that's actually very interesting. Depends on how strongly you feel about the Mighty Ducks and the concept of the Mighty Ducks being a great ensemble performance. Yeah, but he kind of disappeared from the scene. Yes. Chris and Scott Thomas, we've talked about. I thought she was remarkable in this movie. And John Voight, who I think is a little bit too much minutes played for the, for the Dion Waders Award.

But it's wild because, like, if you watch him in this movie, you don't know he's in like coming home and is like this 70s iconic 70s actor he's fucking Midnight Cowboy and he's Jim Phelps Any other nominees or any choices for this one?

I mean I think you gotta put a little respect on Ving Rames's name you know Luther becomes weirdly such a big point he becomes Ethan's conscience throughout this whole series and there is something I think unique about saying like Ving Rames who is this burly imposed

proposing Marcellus Wallace figure being the hacker, you know, being the guy who is the smartest guy in the room, who knows the lay of the land on everything. Like, that was a smart choice and, like, it holds through. They introduced Simon Pegg to be that guy a little bit as the series goes on, but I don't know. He's just routinely entertaining in these movies. Yeah, I'm going to go with Redgrave. I also shouts to Jean Renaud, who is in the midst of an unbelievable volcanic hush streak at this, from the professional to this, to Ronan, just like.

He's great in Ronan. Unbelievable in Ronan. Basically the exact same role he plays in Mission Impossible. He plays in Ronan. Except a much more gregarious, like, weather-beaten, isn't this a shame what's happening to us, but also like I like this guy? He gets to play the Ving Rhames in Ronan. Yeah, and Sean Bean is the Jean-Ranoe in Ronan.

Once again, you've tried to erase a film from 1985 called French Kiss, starring Kevin Klein and Meg Ryan in which Jean-Renau appears as Inspector Jean-Paul Cardin. Wow. Okay. We're going Redgrave on this one. this is going to be a good one. What is age the worst?

Ew. Here's some nominees. Ethan typing internet access into a computer. That's honestly how we thought it worked at the time. The Netscape browser that IMF uses to watch

news clips, floppy disks, the insanely attention drawing surveillance eyewear worn by Hanna and Sarah during the Prague surveillance scene. The masks. I fucking hate. masks and just

the whole the clear plot line. I take issue with the masks. Yeah, the masks. They're not believable. They don't have rules. No, no. You guys are wrong. That's my take. Here's why. These movies need to have something

preposterous about them. Mission accomplished. It was supposed to be the stunts and the helicopter blade and hanging from a cliff. The masks are the thing that are like, this is a movie. Like, accept it as a movie.

And it gets a little bit more complicated as the series goes on where you have these voice strips and they're changing the vocal tones of all the characters. But the masks are Mission Impossible. I mean, that is from the TV show. That is the legacy of the series. Now, are they silly? It's not that they're silly. It's that I don't know.

You can basically skip to the bank if you use the masks, right? Half of this movie doesn't need to happen with the good application of Masks. Why not just put a mask on as Donlo walk into the office, steal the nocalaist, and walk out? Answer me this right now. Are you really Andy Greenwald wearing a mask? My issue with the mask is, especially the senator mask that Tom Cruise wears, Ethan Hunt wears, is just that one, it's not believable. And I get that it's preposterous. The other thing is, ostensibly he's been impersonating a sitting U.S. senator for an untold amount of time. Yeah. Like going and doing interviews.

He's basically Jesse Helms. Right. Does this man exist? No, Walter's a Democrat. Yeah. Oh, excuse me. First of all, does this senator? Does this senator actually exist?

One, is he Tom Cruise all the time? Like, he ran for office? No, I think he exists. And I think he's like an adversary of Emma. I don't understand. I love that theory, though. Tom Cruise is also a senator? I mean, no.

How often is Tom Cruise this guy? And they take him on quarter of him. quote fishing trips. Sure. And while he's like in County Kildare, fly fishing, they use him to get into embassies and do all sorts of shit like that. But he's not like, wait, I didn't do that hit on firing on fire. I'm going with your angle, which is that this is an entirely invented human who is elected

to high office and he's ultimately only been played by Tom Cruise. Also, let me just point out, the political landscape, while I know that there was like all the Clinton stuff would happen and everything, or it was happening. the political landscape was different. In 96, I was like 19, and we were like, however old I was, if you just told me like, yeah, that guy's a senator, I'd be like, sounds good.

I didn't know every senator in the world. And back then, if it was like, oh, yeah, it's like old Senator Walter, I'd be like, sure, whatever. Is that the guy who put a fucking parental advisory sticker on my NWA record? It was not like a thing where you were like, very true.

Vote blue, did you, like, hold your senator accountable. Nobody fucking knew that. Like, nobody knew how do you get in touch with these people. I think between this and you outlining Quint's campaign in Amity for the Jaws Rwatchables, we should have some sort of political category here. All right. We'll say that so that there is, what do you think is age of the worst ultimately?

Is it the computer stuff? Are you talking to me? I think it's the masks. Computer stuff tech, I feel like you have to grade on a curve anytime you see a movie because it changes so much. It is, but it is really. Because the movie meant to be so forward-looking and so technocratic, it does seem pretty bad when, like, a floppy disk is bust out.

Or, like, very simple stuff, like, when they go into the Langley Chamber and the computer screen comes back on and it just says, like, download or upload complete. There's a lot of, like, like, when Luther hacks into Max's computer on the TVG train, and he's just like, it's literally typing in, like, stop the communication. of the computer next to me and download it to my computer instead. It's not exactly typing in basic. We'll go with masks. Fist-bumped that. Let's do it.

Bang. All right, guys, we'll get to the rest of the awards, but first a quick break to hear from our sponsor. Today's episode of the rewatchables is brought to you by AMC Networks's Shutter, the premium streaming video service from AMC Networks, dubbed the Netflix of horror. Shutter has the largest, fastest-growing human-cured selection of thrilling and dangerous entertainment

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some half-assed Internet Research Corner. Willard Huck, I hope I'm pronouncing his name right, and Gloria Katz's original script reportedly opened with members of the original IMF team, including Peter Graves, on a mission with their youngest member played by Cruz, they were all to be killed and that would leave Cruz behind to solve

the mystery of who killed his original team I wonder if that was also one of the reasons why some of the older stars did not want to reappear in the movie. Graves out. Apple was almost bankrupt at the time of the movie being released and they attempted

to basically get cool again by having a corporate tie-in with Mission Impossible and that the power book laptops were in every single, like we're basically in all these movies around this time, but especially with Mission Impossible. They also set

up a early website promotional tie-in called the Mission Impossible Web Adventure. Wow. That was basically like a game you could play. They sunk like 15 million into this whole thing, but things worked out for Apple, so congrats to them. Like I said before, the Langley Heist is an homage to the Jules Dasin classics of

Top Koppi and Rafi. And some people think that Ethan Hunt's name is a sly tribute to Howard Hunt, the former CIA spy who was involved in the Watergate Breaking. Interesting. Ethan Hunt is such a perfect name for a character. It's really good.

It's so anonymous for some reason. Yeah, but it's fun to say. Let's do unintentional comedy. When he goes back to his room and starts researching the internet after saying internet on his computer, Ethan Hunt is scrolling through these username groups and he closes his eyes.

He starts, like he just starts like, okay I'm going to start scrolling through these Usenet groups to try and find out how Max is communicating through the internet and he closes his eyes through this whole part and it's not a big deal but he misses the whole letter A which would have been arms dealing

so if there had been a message board for arms dealing Ethan Hunt would have just been missing it at one point Ethan says to Luther what do they used to call you the Net Ranger and maybe my favorite piece of unintentional comedy is Senator John Walter, Democrat of Virginia, appearing on the McLaughlin Group, and them being able to watch

the McLaughlin Group in crystal clear video in a hotel room in Prague. Wow, that's a great catch. That's pretty bad. Man. Usenet groups. Remember those? I do. Wow.

All of the internet tech stuff is just, you just got to accept it. Were you ever on a Usenet group, like back in the mid-90s? Yes, I was on the Fish Usenet Group, which I believe, I'm sure people will. correct me on this, if I'm wrong, I believe it was one of the first actual Usenet groups for like a musical act.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. I was on like an, I remember I was on one of those email list serves. That was like the first internet experience I truly had after having like prodigy or whatever.

And I was on this like, this list serve for pavement. And I would send the band pavement. And I would like, you would just be like your faith, just people talking about pavement and this list serve all day long. Is this meant to be a confessional portion of the,

I'm just trying to very, I'm not to verify that this was in fact how people communicated on the internet, so it's not surprising that arms deals took place in biblical use-net groups. I don't think I had an experience on the internet beyond the walls of AOL in 1996. I think I was strictly existing in AOL. Has anyone ever tried to email Max at Job 314? Give it a shot. That's the other thing that I...

My computer will explode. That also... I don't know, the ease with which he accesses Job or Max, I guess, as Job, seems unlikely. He sends like six emails. Yeah. Passes out, wakes up, gets an email back. Yeah. I don't know.

We can pick some, some trickiness there, yeah. Any other unintentional comedy moments? Well, I'm going to kind of roll your last bullet point into unanswerable questions. So, Senator John Walter, in that McLaughlin interview, is that the actual senator? Or is that Ethan Hunt as the center? That's the thing that I don't understand. I think it's really Walter. But Walter is actually an IMF agent.

Okay. And that Walter's whole big is to be very skeptical of the intelligence community. But in fact, that is just like a simulation of like dissent. I like this. And in fact, he is an IMF agent and allows them to use his identity to conduct international espionage. So here are the three potentialities around Senator Walzer. Yeah. Senator John Walzer.

He is a senator. Yes. elected, a human man. Who likes fishing. And we'll just willingly go on vacation. He does not have, is not a member of a Usenet group. So he's not aware of, say, his attendance of a Prague gala. He's not on alt.

Right. Alt. Right. Alt.bibble. Not or alt. Not. Or. Just a blue dog Democrat from Virginia.

Right. Or he is a co-opted intelligence officer. Yes. Working for IMF while also serving the good people of what state? Virginia. Virginia. Virginia. Or.

he is a completely constructed 65-year-old human American citizen played entirely by Tom Cruise when necessary for the IMF class all for 60 grand a year follow-up would you watch a movie set in 1996 about a US senator played like an old man played by Tom Cruise now what if why isn't Cruz going back to the Walzer IP why were we so praiseworthy of Tom Cruise's performance, his transformation in Tropic Thunder. When we should have been praising his role as

John Walzer. That's a great question. Here are some more unanswerable. Unintentional comedy, we're going to go with Net Ranger. He says it so sincerely. He's like, you were the Net Ranger, right? It's so funny. Unanswerable questions. If Ethan Hunt can make a mask of basically anyone's face,

why couldn't you just make a mask of William Donlo who worked inside of the vault and steal the disc? That way I asked that question before I did not get a satisfactory answer. I don't have one. Okay. Was John Voight really in any shape to be traipsing across a high-speed train? I thought this when I was re-watching it.

He does look great. When he shows up like in that parachute suit, he looks fitter than I think I've ever seen him in any movie. He just, he looks good. I don't know if they put his face on somebody else or how much was a stunt guy. But he looked pretty fit. I would say, I lean no,

but he did look pretty great in that suit. I think also when he, when it's revealed that he is. ultimately the villain and he comes out on the train from behind the news. You remember Ethan Hunt, right, honey? He's wearing that outfit that's sort of like black

swat-ups uniform. So is he lying when he's in the coffee shop and he's pretending to be hurt? Okay, I got you. But when he does that, I agree. He's sort of almost virile. And when he strikes Ethan, does he like elbow him or something? He's like, there's kind of a weird intense physical energy. Yeah,

it's a bit of old band strength. picking nits. I didn't quite understand why Jim had to shoot Claire. Right. First. Shoot her first. Makes no sense. That makes no sense.

She doesn't even really say anything. She's just like, Jim, are you sure we have to kill Ethan? And he's like, yeah, we do. And then she's like, Jim, don't. And he guns her down on a high speed train. Makes no sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Cancell the podcast. Weird choice from my guy. Do you think Emmanuel Bay Art was just like, I am not coming back for these movies? It was just like, feel free to take me out? Or do you think that it needed to be like, in case you didn't know Phelps was a really bad guy? Maybe they're like he's deranged. I don't know. I mean, obviously he's evil, but it is really confusing.

Extremely. Also, Jim and Claire in general, their relationship confounds me. Yes. Yes. She, he basically, like, upon reuniting with her, immediately, like, trashes her to Ethan Hunt. He's like, you've tasted the goods. Right.

Which was like, that's not necessary, man. in anything he's been like a perfect gentleman other than the magic trick he played where he's like kind of like going getting all handsy but like that seemed like a weird turn where he's just like

and take my whore wife with you it's almost like Brian De Palma has a problem with sexual politics any other picking nuts you guys have man you really you threw me for a loop with the Claire thing her getting shot first

yeah I noticed that when I was rewatching it too beyond that I don't know. What's John Renault's end game here? What's his name? Krieger? Well, I think he's just like live by the black market, die by the black market. Let's make some cash.

Let's get money. Right, right. Okay. Cut out the middleman. Another picking net. What really happens at the end when Kittridge is like, we can work out a deal, international arms dealer to Max? Maybe she has more information that they can use.

Oh, she's like, I must have something you need. Right. Okay. Because they just, that happens and then Ethan's back like on the mix. And that's it. What's the science on, um, And maybe we're leaning into picking nits here. But like, what's the science on helicopter and train tunnel?

I think it's very tough to do that. Jean Reno does say I could fly a helicopter into the lobby of Fort Knox. So he is, he's in the mix there. You know what I mean? He's saying he could do that. Where did he learn to do that? Like in hell hell school? It seems very tough.

Especially when the other train comes the other way. They fully cut away. It's like a hard close-up on Ethan's face. that happens because that is illogical. Let's go to best quote here. Sean has already pointed out, do you read me, the list is in the open! I could do that all day long.

Kittridge, this is a bar from Robert Town. I'm guessing it's Robert Town. David Kep, get at me. Dying slowly in America, after all, can be a very expensive proposition. That's like a New York Times Magazine feature in a wide of dialogue. You've never seen me very upset.

It's Ethan. Relax, Luther. It's much worse than you think. Ethan. I just want him manning a radar tower in Alaska by the end of the day. Just mail him his clothes. RIPP. John Love. Oh man. Just the way he says

mail him his clothes. He really lets the clothes kind of let go. It's great stuff. This one is from Ethan and it sounds like something that was left on Aaron Sorkin's cutting room floor. Can I ask you something, Kittridge? If you're dealing with a man who was crushed, shot, stabbed, and detonated five members of his own I

team. How devastated do you think you're going to make him by hauling mom and Uncle Donald down to the county courthouse? Best line? Oh, man. Well, I still think it's just they're dead. They're all, my team is dead, you know, and him screaming that is my favorite. Also, you've never seen me very upset is very, is iconic. It's extremely icy. Yeah, I'm going to go with you've never seen me very upset. I just love that scene. I love the spar, the dialogue sparring. in that scene is just incredible. I think we've probably already covered they knew overacting.

I think it's Zerney personally. I think it goes straight. Do I have to do them Ruffalo voice? They knew! It's Zerni, for sure. Right? I don't know. Like, Cruz is really going for it here.

Again, some unbelievable, like, blinking work by Tom Cruise. When he's on the computer, and he's, Job, three, four, Joe. Job? Just the way he, like, does the, like, works it all out on his face is unreal work by Tom Cruise. And if it's not for the fact that you just want to look at that face, you'd be like, this is ridiculous because you dial it down.

It's, like, eight. Would this movie be better with Danny Trejo? What are the other people who people want us to include into Danny Trejo? This is one of, like, the six or seven things that matters most to Bill is the evolution of the Danny Trejo category within the rewatchable. Steve Bouchemmy is one of them. Oh, yeah. It would definitely be... Steve Bouchemey could definitely be in this movie.

Who would he be? Kreeker? Estaviz. Estabes. Oh, good. Yeah, that's good. Maybe he should be Claire. I want to kind of a bunch of these two last ones together because they're complicated.

Because Apex Mountain and who won the movie are kind of separate here. Do you think this is Apex Mountain for Tom Cruise? No. No. No. Do you think this is Apex Mountain for Brian DePaul? No. No.

Do you think this is Apex Mountain for very... Bang Rames. No. No. Baby boy, what's up? Yeah. More than Pulp Fiction. Baby boy's pretty good. Wow.

More than get medieval on your ass. Sure, okay. John Voight. No. Not close. Andaconda. Kristen Scott Thomas. No.

No, that's only God forgives. So this is not Apex Mountain for anybody. It's not Jean-Roe. I guess it's Zernie. It's Zerni's Apex Mountain. He's better and clear and present danger. Wow. I can't believe I'm doing the podcast with the only other Henry Zerney expert in the world.

Shout it to you, man. What about Danny Elfman? Oh, no. What about... That's got to be Beetlejuice, right? Is Elfman. Batman? Batman. I also really like the Midnight Run soundtrack, but

nobody asked me. What about Stephen Burrum? Who's the Palma's cinematographer. Give me some other Stephen Burrum hits. He's done some good ones. But let me, like, like, we're trying to figure out the Apex. The outsiders. Rumblefish.

It's pretty good. St. Elmo's Fire. Great stuff. Eight million ways to die. No. The untouchables. Amazing. Hafa.

I'm going untouchables. Okay. Yeah. All right. Who won the movie? Ooh. Cruz. De Palma.

Here's one I'm going to throw his little wrinkle. Hollywood. Yeah. The Hollywood studio system of putting great people, the top of their craft, in the best place to succeed, giving them the money needed to build an aquarium and blow it up.

Acvarium does not exist. They had to build that from scratch and the tanks were Tom Cruise's ideas. I'll put a twist on it. The specific way that this movie came together, that kind of chaotic, almost old Hollywood way of like they don't know what they're doing

and they're not even sure what it's going to be until it's made is kind of a thing that you don't hear about anymore except as a totally cautionary tale. Yeah, it's like this is what happened on one of those Star Wars movies, the guy got fired. Yeah, Fantastic Four is a tragic comedy and now

no one will ever work again with that because everything's so formulaic. So I think maybe the Victor is that style of collaborative, almost improvisatory filmmaking where you really get a synergy of like these creative talents in a way that seems

extremely chaotic, but produces something that's really great on the screen. I think that you could make the case in both directions. I think you could say everything that you're saying is right, which is that the manic nature of Hollywood creation showed that this stuff like this can work. On the flip side, this is kind of like end times for movies. Sure. And it signals a new path for arguably the greatest movie star of the last 30 years where he decides that, or he realizes more or less, that to be relevant into his 50s, he has to keep falling down. stuff and holding on to stuff.

And it also is kind of the end of Brian De Palma, who is probably the least celebrated member of the movie brats, but according to some people the most talented. Right. Interesting. It is the beginning of the Wagner Crews producing partnership, which is very powerful for a time and that ends quite badly when they take over United Artists. It's the end of John Void doing good movies. Prior to this, he was in heat, and then after that it's kind of mostly schlock.

I don't know. There's something weirdly end of an era about the movie, and so it doesn't really feel like a win for anybody except just Mission Impossible movies. Yeah, I think Cruz won the movie because Cruz is the engine of the entire thing. And I don't know how it works. If it's anybody else but him,

I can't imagine anybody else playing Ethan Hunt. They've tried. We saw it. Yeah, it didn't work. So I think ultimately it's Cruz's movie. I think it never, there's so many ways. what ifs, like what if a different director started this franchise?

Yeah. What if Tom Cruise was like, that was cool, but I'm going to keep doing movies like a few good men in color of money now instead of like, no, I have to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. We'll never know. And it sounds like they've kind of come back around where, you know, these movies have started to really level out and get better and better as they get older. So it's really interesting. Any other final notes?

How much does it be, but you mentioned De Palma being like the least heralded of the movie brats? How much does he hate the fact that you can't say diploma without mentioning Hitchcock? Because is that really the issue? I think he likes it. Honestly, I do. I think he knows that it's good to be in a lineage. And I think he doesn't like it if people say he's a rip-off artist. But, I mean, he's made an active point of homage.

It's funny, you know, at the beginning of this conversation, I said that I didn't think it was a Hitchcock homage. But you guys clearly do think that it is. And I think you're right that, like, sort of the European mystery around the movie does have shades of, like, Lady vanishes. Yeah, Lady vanishes or even like Shadow of a Doubt in some respects. Stuff like that. Yeah. Or even the sort of Olivier movies or the Carrey Grant movies that are set in Europe.

But I think he probably is more frustrated by this being his most seen movie because this is a studio job. And he makes something artful out of it. But it's not born of the mind of Brian De Palma. It's born of the mind of four screenwriters and a big, producing movie star and a studio job. It's interesting the guys who were on the periphery of that, of that generation of filmmakers they were referring to, which loosely is Coppola, Lucas, Spielberg de Palma,

Scorsese, you know, to some extent, yeah, I guess Scorsese. The guys who were, like, really tortured by their relationship to Hollywood, like Paul Schrader and De Palma, who were, like, frequently brought in to work on things and then just like, you're not letting me make my heart? And it's like, did you ever think that they were going to let you make me Impossible your way entirely? Did you think Tom Cruise wasn't going to bring five

screenwriters on? Yeah. So it's kind of, it's a fascinating tension there. It's ultimately what Jason said is right is that it, that tension created an amazing movie and a great franchise, even if it's not necessarily on the terms that every single person wanted when they first came to it. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the rewatchables. I know that we mentioned that we were going to do Mad Max this week, Mad Max free

road. That has been bumped until August. Would you know what next week says? Yeah, it's a little movie called Die Hard. Oh, that's going to be exciting. All right, so we'll see you next week with Die Hard. If you want to get ahead and start watching, rewatching that, it would be fun. And we've got rewatchables going throughout the rest of the summer, so stick with us.

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