The Rewatchables - ‘New Jack City’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Logan Murdock

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Logan Murdock are talkin' about combinating and consolidating as they revisit the 1991 crime drama ‘New Jack City,’ starring Wesley Snipes, Ice-T, Allen Payne, and Chris Rock. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ringer podcast network. Coming up, sit your $5 ass down before I make change. New Jack City is next. There's a fine line between wrong and right. It is a war out there between those who enforce the law and those who break it. All other days are selling on the street corners.

Now, we got to look out for one another. A family out to run. Lennas City are up against cops who know its streets. Wesley Snipes, Ice Team, Mario Van Peebles, and Jud Nelson. New Jack City. Red and Riddon. Now play at a theater near you. All right, Van Lathen is here.

Logan Murdoch is here. We're going to talk about a movie that came out 30 years ago. Yikes. And in some ways it feels like less than 30 years ago, and in some ways it feels 100 years ago. New Jack City. a really important movie for a lot of different reasons. Van, a way more political movie than I remember

from just watching bits and pieces on cable with commercials and all that stuff. When you really sit down and watch this, it's like, man, this movie was way more political than I remember even in 1991 where I'm just like, cool, Wesley Snipes, Judd Nelson. This is basically a Scarface homage. There's so much shit going on here.

I was kind of stunned watching it. 30 years later. Will you say political in what respect? Well, it's basically, it's an indictment of the Reagan era. Sure. And it is one of the first movies that really dives into how cocaine and crack is just destroying an entire generation of people. And I don't think I really fully realized that in 1991 that there was this big picture

thing going on. I was just enjoying the movie because it's so goddamn enjoyable. So they, they, they used to do. used to do these things, and I don't know why they're not as popular as they are, but they used to do these things whenever a big movie will come out, you know, the making of specials. I talked about this a little bit on the big picture.

And they did one with New Jack City, and Mario Van Peeples was talking. And he said, he says when he's talking, he goes, drugs, crack is not a black thing, it's not a white thing, it's a death thing. That doesn't give a shit about color. That is an exact line from the

movie, right? So that tells me that this movie was created with a very specific message. This is a very specific indictment of the drug epidemic, the crack epidemic. But the lens is the thing that I am more

fascinated by watching it back now. Because this movie is copaganda. You have a completely evil, a totally evil. Like, Mephisto

Satan-like character in Nino Brown. When I watched the movie, I realized that Nino was way more evil and diabolical than what I remember. And then you have the cops, which seem to be completely

altruistic in their goals and motives. And there's not a lot of nuance in the back and forth of the drug war and who is and people's motivations and what they're doing and all of that stuff going back and forth. That kind of stuck out of me. The politics definitely seem to be an indictment of the politics of the day,

but the movie is very heavy on message. And it seemed like it was just a lot of fun when we were kids, but it's very heavy on message. Logan, this movie's older than you are. It is. It is older than me. And it's funny because I saw it through the lens of, like you were saying, with commercials, on BET and syndication.

But now to watch it back, I think it tells a complete story of the crack epidemic in terms of how the highs and highs of, you know, Nino overcoming and making all the bread out of a bad circumstance, but also by the end, no one wins in this one. Nino doesn't win, he gets killed. Pookie doesn't win, he gets killed. No one actually wins in this one.

The cops don't actually win because Nino only gets a, what, a one-year sentence? Like, nothing, no one wins. Kareem Akbar doesn't win this one because he gets, blame for the whole operation. That was one of the biggest things that I saw. And from political standpoint, it sets the tone right in the beginning. When you're having the first shot across the bridge and you have the radio playing where it's saying the levels of poverty during the Reagan administration, yeah, there was a lot of wealth in that administration. But it was one of the biggest wage gaps in human history when you talk about how blacks are, you know, how black's, you know, how.

blacks and people of color are treated during this epidemic and how they are getting more sentencing and also how they are not reaping the rewards of, you know, the wealth that is being generated during this time. And you really see that during the first five minutes of this time. It's, it was a really sobery movie, even looking back. And I was it about like three or four times preparing for this. And that was one of the biggest things that it does tell that complete picture of the crack epidemic, that it's not all, it wasn't all roses for the drug dealers and it wasn't, you know, necessarily great for anyone involved. Yeah, you know, I'm older than you guys. The anti-drug stuff really started, I'm going to say 83, 84 ranch. And that's why, like, I remember Jay Adande

recently sent me this one-minute commercial that played during a Cosby show. That was basically a don't do drugs PSA. And it reminded me how that was what it was like in the mid-80s where there were real PSAs constantly on TV about, hey, be careful, blah, blah, blah. And it was a lot like the smoking ads now, but it was for cocaine. So it was always in the vortex. Lent Bias died. Don Rogers died, the NFL player. Richard Pryorneur and set himself on fire.

There are all these cautionary tales. But yet there was this other thing happening that, you know, somebody like me growing up on the East Coast, like I didn't really know how bad it was. And it's weird how important New Jack City was in the big pop culture landscape of there just wasn't TV and movies trying to capture this stuff. And, you know, this isn't the greatest movie of all time. The disclaimer at the end is really bad. It's like, yeah, we get it, dude. You don't need the disclaimer.

We get what you're trying to say with the movie. But at the same time, you look at this movie, King of New York, which comes out a year before. And then the whole subplot of jungle fever, you know, the B story of drug addiction. And then Boys in the Hood. And that's all 1990, 1991. This is a, like an 18-month stretch where all of a sudden these experiences are in movies again. And Van, the 80s, they weren't. They weren't.

You just wipe it out for basically, you have the black exploitation era and some of the other stuff. Which is more about, which is gone. Yeah. The 80s is just gone. And then it comes back for some reason. I want you to look at the evolution of those movies that you just talked about, right? And look at the evolution of those films. and watch in those films, the drug dealers get more human, right?

So it's New Jack City, King of New York, these guys are just these overwhelmingly powerful, ruthless figures, kill everyone, we'll go get everything. Even though Frank White had like this weird, good streak that would make him work with everybody and all of that, there was something likable about him. And at partially something likeable about Nino, but then as those movies, he, evolve, what happens is if an epidemic lasts long enough, it becomes familiar to you. So now it's very difficult to just demonize a drug dealer because he might be your brother or your friend from around the way or something like that. I would argue that somebody does win in New Jack City, good wins. Because remember, not any one person, but like when Nino gets killed by the guy who's

sole purpose in the movie is righteousness, right? He's brave, he's wise, he's like a weird sort of movie pure figure, right? When he waxed, he know, at the end, it makes a great aim, by the way. Great aim. When he waxing, you know, at the end,

it seems like the villain is dead. So when you look at sort of where we are by the time we get to miss society, well now, the drug dealer and the gang member of men's society is the protagonist of the story. Like, we're hoping that he figures his life out. Like, he doesn't at the end. It's still, he meets the same fate as Nino.

But these things evolve because the crack epidemic didn't go anywhere. Ben, I will push back on just the winning aspect because you talk about that guy who did pop Nino at the end. Yes, he won that victory, but he was one of those guys that you remember, he's in the police station talking about, man, we need more police. presence in our neighborhoods. And yeah, rightfully so, you want more protection. But that's when you start getting more police presence in these neighborhoods during the 90s when the shit does not go the way OG wants it to go. And that's when you get the 94 crime belt. That's when you get

all these other things that happen that you push for, though. So does these neighborhoods actually win when you think about it? No, no, no, no, no. The neighborhoods didn't. Right. Yeah, the neighborhoods didn't win. By the way, just let you guys know, it's still a lot of guys in old. folks in the in the in the in the in the in the news that want more police yeah it is still that that's that there's no you know there's no uniformity in that argument there's the younger kids like you logan who's like that we don't want any cops throw them all in the pacific ocean and then like if you talk to my aunts and stuff they go yeah well i want a clock a cop on every on every on every block so that's still kind of a pushpool but i guess what i would say is going back and looking

in the movie the movie treats the entire thing in a very simplistic manner It's like these people are good These people are bad And these people are so good Like Scotty is so good He'd take a chance On an ex crackhead Being in a crack room

That's how much Scotty believes Scotty's that good And Nino is so bad That he would pick up a child To shield himself from gunfire That is a ocean of difference Between the good guy and the bad guy Yeah, when they use the human shields in movies, that's usually a good sign.

He'd cite that, too. Seizbar picks up the little girl. Is it little girl bullet shield? That's like the final level. The dead zone? They do it in the dead zone too? That was another human shield too. When Ice-T picks up the dude and when he's coming in to kill Nino and he has the

human shield dude as Nino is shooting around in the final scene. There's a lot of human shields in this movie. 91, which we've already done a couple of films from. for the rewatchables this year because it's 30 years. Such a fascinating year. We don't have any movie with a black star in the top 15 for box office that year. Really? But we have Boys of the Hood made 57 million.

That was 19th. New Jack City, 47 million. It was the indie movie. It was the highest-rated indie movie or highest grossing indie movie that year. That was- The continuation of black exploitation, right? Because the premise of black exploitation is, you make movies for cheap and you make bread on the back end and that's what happened

with New Jack City. And then Jungle Fever. Exactly. Well, and then Jungle Fever was 43rd. That made $32 million. And this is when Hollywood looks at this and goes, oh, oh, these things make money. And then we see a bunch of good stuff happen after that. But for whatever reason in the 80s, it didn't happen.

I still think we did King of New York on this pod with Tarantino over a year ago. It's a better movie. I think it influences this movie in some ways but New Jack City was a hundred times more successful this was a big movie and I think one of the reasons the soundtrack

which had iced tea, key sweat, Johnny Gill, Calraby Bad, Guy, two live scabs. It was part of this and this was an arrow when the soundtrack you know we saw in Boomerang 2 and some of these other movies where the soundtrack

was kind of you know kind of became part of the package. This just felt like an important pop culture movie. Could you remember that fan? Because you were younger when this came up, but you were still there. I was going to say, King of New York was a piece of cinema. New Jack City was a piece of culture.

And from a bunch of different ways. Number way New Jack, like the sound, the field, the vibe, the clothes, the chains, all of that stuff, right? You have people that you recognize. Mario Van Peeples used to play a guy on TV called Sunny Spoon.

You know what I mean? Like it didn't last very long, but like my mother and my grandmother were obsessed with Mario Van Peoples, right? Hey, yo, everybody's auntie and mom had a crush on Mario Van Peoples. Everybody's auntie and mom had a crush. He was one of the guys. And they kept waiting for him to take that Dazel step. And for whatever reason, I mean, he had a great career, but it kind of never happened.

And then you had Ice T who was on the come up, right? Ice T was coming off. He's a huge rapper, colors, all of these things. iced tea and then you had you know Wesley Snipes this was Wesley finally grabbing the mantle and having a movie

all around him and his deal so this was one of those it was a cultural thing that kind of set this movie apart from a film like like King of New York which we rent it like we saw King of New York we rented that movie we saw New Jack City

in the theaters so it was just a different film and really to be honest with you almost for every, it's one of those movies, for everybody in the movie, it was a major step forward in their career. It was a major step forward in his career for Chris Rock. It was a, it's still, to this day, Chris Rock's finest performance, if you ask me, it's a

major step forward for Mario Van Peoples. It's a major step forward for, uh, for, uh, for, for Westley's, for Essly, for Ice T and Wesley Snipes. It's for everyone. It's, it's a movie that led to bigger and better stuff. Well, let's talk about Snipes for a second. this is when he grabs the mano as the most important black movie star

he has an unbelievable run here because he had Major League and he's in King of New York but he's supporting parts then he has Mo Better Blues shows he can lead a movie than New Jack he's not the lead in that

well but like that he can be yeah that he can be yeah that guy one of the guys right then then New Jack City he's actually the lead and it's the Tony Montana character

basically that leads to jungle fever, water dance, white man can't jump, pasture 57, Sugar Hill, demolition man and money train, among others, all in the span of seven years. And he's an A-plus lister. I actually think this is his best performance. Interesting. Really? Yeah, I really do.

I think it's my favorite Wesley Snipes of all the Wesley Snipes. I think his best performance is Blade Trinity. Facts. I was going to say that. We were going to get that in a second. Best, so he would have been nominated for Best Supporting Actor if he had gotten nominated. Here were our nominees that year. Jack Palance won for City Slickers.

Tommy Lee Jones, JFK, Michael Lerner, Barton Fink, and then two people from Bugsy, Harvey Kytel and Ben Kingsley. It's kind of unbelievable that Snipes or Chris Rock did not get nominated because Chris Rock's incredible in this movie. They just get wiped out, both of them. Oh, we're talking about Bugsy, fucking DeWarrant Bayty. Annette Benning joint? Yeah. Yo, you gotta be fucking kidding me. God.

Like, it, look, not, that movie is a disaster. Like, it has like 10 Oscar nominations. Really? Yeah. It took a lot of spots from a lot of more deserving movies. Okay.

Including this one. Logan, have at it. I don't know what to say about that. I had no. It's racism. I don't know. Like, that's all I can say from that. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,

I don't, like, do you. Pookie was so great in that movie. Like Chris Rock was so great in that movie. I have him for some awards later down the line in this pod. But Pookie was incredible. Rusty Sipes was incredible. It was incredible. And the fact that they did not get a nom.

It just speaks to the early 90s in a lot of ways, honestly. I think in the way that, you know, Oscars were nominated. It speaks to the 90s. We blacks are just getting their due. But this was a travesty. Come on. Yeah, it was, if you had, if you showed somebody right now, that was Logan's age, you showed them Bugsy and you showed them New Jack City. And then you said one of these movies had two midway through and I'm saying put on New Jack, please.

But if I told you one of those two movies had two best supporting actor nominations, there's no way you would say Bugsy. But that's the way the Oscars were back then. We mentioned the soundtrack. The screenplay is an interesting piece of this. It was co-written by Thomas Lee Wright with a guy named Barry Michael Cooper who was an investigative reporter with the Village Voice

and who wrote for Spin and did some really good stuff about the crack epidemic including he wrote this piece for the Village Voice called Kids Kidds Killing Kids New Jack City Eats It's Young about the drug war in Detroit

tied in the late 60s and the riots and then the rise of the crack cocaine gangs like the Young Boys, Chambers Brothers. They basically adapted that into the movie and moved it to New York, which I guess was the right move. I think this would have been an interesting Detroit movie. $8 million budget made $47.8 million.

Roger Ebert, three and a half stars. He wrote, Truffaut once said it was impossible to make an anti-war movie because the war sequences would inevitably be exciting and get the audience involved on one side or the other. It's almost as difficult to make an anti-drug movie since the lifestyle. money of the drug dealers looks like fun, at least until they're killed, this movie pulls off that tricky achievement. Nino, who looks at the dead body of Scarface and laughs,

does not get the last laugh. One other note. So Darrell, DMC, from Run DMC, this is the quote he said about this movie, and we should talk about this before we do the categories. Quote, the film kind of made everyone think drug dealing was a good thing, thanks to Nino's confidence style and swagger

Everyone wanted to be like him They loved him All these drug dealing rappers were inspired by him Nino Brown became the black scarf face He gave the drug dealers A black hero to look up to That was ill You see a massive hip hop influence

That this movie had That ties in a whole bunch of things Most notably Little Wayne I mean that's like It's overt But Why did that happen, Van? I don't think it has anything to do with the movie

because really when you look at these films people are only informed by what it is that they know, right? You know, when Native Americans watch any of the films from early on in the century, early on in the century when there was cowboys and then they would say Indians, how do you think they felt when they watched it?

They felt like the wrong guys were winning, right? So the reality is if you're from a neighborhood like where I grew up, there are a bunch of people that go to work and come home. They go to work and they come home. They go to work and they come home if they can find jobs, right? And when you start to see, and all Americans are really like this, right? When you start to see somebody who says, to hell with that, I'm going to go grab something.

I'm going to go do something. I'm going to go be something, whatever chances I have to take. if you're from that same environment and they have so many things that you're told that you can get if you walk the straight narrow but you don't see anybody who's walking the straight narrow

having those things, you're going to be enamored by it. Like you're going to be enamored by it. That's the... So for me, when I see the movie, the way that they can do the story justice is really to make Nino

as bad as they do, to show that he doesn't care about the story. the people in his community to show all of those things. So I don't think that because Scarface dies at the end of the movie, Tony doesn't have grandchildren. He dies, he kills his man. Nino dies, he kills his man.

Kane dies. Dough boy dies. You know, they all die. No boy doesn't die in the movie, but it shows that he died later. They all die. But the question is, what part of them, what part of their life speaks to people who don't feel like they have any opportunities and any chances? So I don't know you have to do very much

Anybody who's coming up and has shit And has control And also in the movie, Nino is very directly opposed to white power The Italians are trying to encroach Upon his business and trying to And he says no, he's willing to go to war with that He's willing to go it alone

And that's always going to be sort of intoxicating the people Yeah, it was funny you said that I think it's funny because I was on the other side of that vantage point, right? Like, I'm watching New Jack City at such a young age, and it really influences how I go about, you know, life. Because, you know, like, Oakland was still lit in 06, right? So I'm seeing that from that vantage point,

but watching Boys in the Hood and Nino Brown and, you know, in Menace's Society and all these people, it's like I see why a Nino comes into power, but you can also see in those movies the downside of that, man. I don't see a happy person in Nino, man. I see somebody that's trying to get out of his circumstance, but it doesn't seem like he's living a really mentally stable life, bro. Like he's literally, he has a threat of getting killed every single day.

He looks fly as fuck. I will say that. That's something I did take away from Nino. He do look fly. But each day, it's either I'm trying to get somebody off my territory. I'm not ever able to enjoy all the bread that I'm getting and all the access that I'm getting. And that's what I saw from Nino was that, yeah, it's fly, but this is fleeting. Like, you're going to have a will big high, but it's not going to work at the end of the day.

And I know all the reasons why Nino did it, like, based on circumstance. That was his way of getting to that level. And that's very intoxicating. But also, I think seeing it removed and I didn't live, you know, during 90s and stuff, the early 90s, seeing it removed, it showed me like, I don't want to do this because I'd rather have a longer life than having, you know, the short life. and having so much fun and also not having the mental stability. So, like, I wanted,

I was that kid at the end where he was like, man, you know, Nino wasn't all great at the end of the day to do that wound up snitching, actually at the end, that told where he was at a sixth seat. But I was that kid,

it was like, nah, I don't really, you know, I don't want this life from my, I don't want this life. Can I say one last thing about that is that another thing that these movies did is they made a distinction that I think, is a very important distinction to make.

There is a difference between somebody that is maybe hustling a little bit on the side to make some extra money to feed their family or doing something like that. I am not in any way espousing that, but there's a difference between that and then being the kingpin of your whole hood because you got to drop so many bodies

and you got to addict so many people. You got to live with that too. And you got to, and there's a completely different, and that's really at the top of any business. There's a way that you have to be shrewd and a sort of dedication to what it is that you're doing that you do infinitely more harm if you're Nino Brown, right? If you're selling weed or catching a lick every now and again,

you're doing wrong and you need to stop doing what it is that you're doing. But those guys that get to that point, they are absolutely ruthless most of the time. And they probably can't get out. You talk about the little stick up kids and people hitting licks and stuff. They could probably get out of it. But like if you get to Nino's level, you have a lifestyle that you're trying to keep up, but you also have a business that employs hundreds of people in the carter. So if you say, I don't want to do this, there's a lot more ramifications than if you're just sticking up and hitting licks with your partners.

Well, I mean, the wire explored that really smartly. Absolutely. With not just Marlowe, but with Stringer, that was his endgame, right? Let's get the fuck out of here and we'll just own real estate. And what would happen if Stringer got out? Stringer would probably then stop hurting people. There would be no reason. That's why when I go back and forth, you're about to get me started again.

That's why when I go back and forth about people who argue Avon versus Stringer, I'm saying, yo, if Stringer takes the organization straight, I know everyone wants to act like something wrong with Stringer, then Stringer can stop being responsible for people being addicted to heroin and people then also getting killed because of the peripheral things that happened. So it's always good to get out the game. If that's what Stringer wanted, then he was better than Avon. The movie really smartly uses Scarface for two reasons.

One, it's obviously in the Scarface, circle, right? So instead of just being like, all right, we're basically doing black Scarface and it's going to be the same thing where the drug lord loses his mind and then turns on his best friend, we're actually going to own it and we're going to show clips from Scarface. We're going to show you that we are aware that Scarface is a movie that exists. That's one thing. The second thing is it's kind of paralleling where Nino's going to go, right? The way they're using the clips, it's like, look, this guy, Scarface is all about this dude who loses his way and the power becomes intoxicating and he doesn't care

who he hurts, he ends up killing his best friend, then he dies. Yep. And Nino's watching this not realizing that this is how his life is going to go. And I actually think it's really smart how they do it. It's something that could have, I think, been bad in the wrong hands, but they as G Money is saying, and the brothers. Yeah. Yeah. As G. Money is Jiminy Cricket. As he's Jiminy Cricket, the conscience

of the drug dealer going, hey, don't forget about us. Hey, don't forget about us. And you can see that Nino's hubris is going to kill him. I love the fact that Scarface is shown alongside this movie. And the way it's juxtaposed in this movie because black people love Scarface, man. Black people love Scarface and love watching Scarface and love watching it, Scarface around women. Like, love it. Just saying all the words. And that specific scene where they're watching Scarface is perfect.

It's true. We're going to do the categories, starting with the most rewatchable scene. Today's most rewatchable scene is presented by Blue Moon. Blue Moon is on a mission to bring some brightness to your life and break up your routine, kind of like a rewatchable scene, something you know you'll enjoy going back to every time. I need a ruling.

Is the Chris Rock bike chase with iced tea chasing him? Is that count as a rewatchable scene for you guys? Of course. Okay. Why do you say no? Because it's short. I had it in what stage the best, but we can put it in most rewatchable.

All right. Yo, bike riding over steps. It was great. So how does he not hurdle? I don't know. It's one of those things you're watching, you're going, how is he not hurtling over the bike and hurtling to his death?

I don't know how to get that. It's impressive. Real bars. Real bars right there. I don't know how to, yeah. Next one is the first the first scene with Nino G. Money and the stuttering guy, aka Radio Rahim. Yeah.

In the Jeep Rangler. Yeah, the Dunhaman. You remember when we was kids, man? We played for Reverend Oaks more at Bidyswall. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I was 11, you was 13. We's a baddest smack court.

And each one, he's one. He wasn't making no money then, was we? Now that we are, you out here living your fucking Michael Jordan fantasy, shooting jumpers and whatnot. Business must be pretty good, huh? We will be, brother. Beef is that. That whole thing, they're laying out the relationship.

It's a little hacky, but I like it. It's like, all right, we've known each other since we were telling. We used to play hoop. Here's where we go, and it's clear Nino's not a great guy. It's clear those are the three. And it's like, all right, these are the guys we'll be spending time with I like how they do it. Nino laying out the Carter complex

and his vision for it, leading right into the, everybody's making a ton of money montage, borrowed directly from Scarface. I love that 10 minutes. That best part of that part was when, the best at least scene is when the end of that scene where he puts up the vial and he's like, crack.

Damn. Like that was the one, that was the one where he's just like, oh, oh. Hey, man, it's a brilliant plant. But there's one thing that does concern me, though. That curry goat eating skinny-ass fat smitty. He controls the brothers around the car. It's time to see that fat bitch a lullaby.

Rock a ball, baby. Yeah, he gonna be hanging with Elvis. Damn. Bar none, that was a very powerful scene when he was talking about it. And he's really talking about it. And the way, and this is to your point, Van, about, like, the wire and stuff. He's building this out like a real business, man. This is like Henry Ford type shit.

We're going to, you know what I mean? We're going to do the, we're going to put the vials. Yeah, you have to. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it was just, it was crazy just how, it's just how militant they were and how organized they were with the Carter. That was just, that scene was great.

I said from the opening credits when he's dangling that dude off the bridge all the way through that we're making money montage, this movie is unassailably entertaining. That 22 minutes, however long it is, it moves great. I love every scene. And you're just watching going, wow, this is. and then it starts to get dark after that. But really good stuff. It doesn't get dark when the first time we see, you know,

he drops the guy off of a bridge. I kind of enjoyed that. See you, wouldn't want to be you? Kind of enjoyed it. See you. Wouldn't want to beat you. Next one. Pookie's, Pookie explaining to ICE T

how Nino's whole crack setup works. It's actually a really good scene. Yeah. And lucid Chris Rock now, being like, here's what we do. And they're going through the whole thing. After that, you'll split up to a, second floor, this worker rings a buzzer and a cold.

A little panel on the wall opens up. Then you get the crack. I'm going to take this out the cold, the buzzer. Where that go? Carl goes to this place. They call it drugstore, man. That's where they actually make the crap. Yo, it's crazy because I heard they got everybody in their butt naked.

Ities hanging. Yo, Nino don't trust them, motherfucker. I'm just telling you, like, I was going to college in Massachusetts at that point. I didn't have a lot of experience with what that kind of stuff looked like. I was just mesmerized. And it's still like, I think that's the first time they've ever really shown

in a movie or TV show exactly what that goes and how people have to be basically naked and all that stuff. It's just really, it's really smartly filmed and done and explained

for how it could have gone. Now, look, it is the first time on film that the idea, and it's something that would be used over and over and over and over again. I'd never seen it before.

It's the first time the naked drug house thing was done. Now you see and obviously that was a thing, but I didn't know about it, you know what I mean? But it's the first time you saw the naked drug house thing. And that level of organization remember, at this point I'm maybe like

10 or 11, and I knew dope dealers right? But most of the dope dealers that I knew, you know, they was hustling out apartments or their mama's cribs or something like that. I didn't know those guys. But that level of organization now we know existed and normally

has to exist for you to make that much money. so it was kind of the first time I had seen it. Van, I think another thing just about that, just how nakedness is portrayed in this movie, right, as taking away humanity. You know what I mean? When you talk about not just that scene where everyone is naked putting into drugs and stuff

and they're just listless people, but also when Nino was taking the Carter owner out with the shotgun and it's like, this is what you're going to do, and took all of his clothes off and took away his humanity as a man and as a person in general. center on as a beam. The way that nakedness was portrayed in this movie is really, really interesting and

fascinating. Next one, Pookie's cover gets blown. I mean, who could have seen this go wrong? Putting the crack addict around crack 24 hours a day. What was wrong with that plan? And I put the wire on them. Yeah. And then they blow up the building.

That's just a really good action sequence. Yeah. Nino and iced tea on the roof when Nino's feeling out iced tea. There's some good stuff there when he puts the gun on them and they're just, it's like a little chess game. It's like a wild respect coming up. It's also just, the one thing that age horribly for me is it's super hokey that Nino killed his mom.

Like that's super hokey. That's crash level. Remember the movie Crash, how cute that script was. That's crash level script cuteness right there. That of all the guys, your mom got popped, and this happens to be the guy that killed your mother. That's like so stupid. They got to establish a motive, man.

They got to establish a motive. That's what he did. He established that motive of like, yo, this is why I was a cop. I want to do this is because, you know, such you and whatever you've done has killed my parents. And they probably could have been like maybe his mom got strung out or something like that.

But that was what they were doing with that was they were just set in a narrative why he hates Nino so much or hates drug dealers like Nino so much in my opinion. I get it. I get it. Nino doesn't have to be the guy that killed his mom. What are the chances of that?

Yeah, what are the chances to that? But I get it, though. I get it. Two more rewatchable scenes, the rooftop scene. Hold this thought. We're going to come back to it. Sure. And then Nino's final speech in the courtroom,

I'm not guilty. You're the one that's guilty. Craig, just play that whole speech. It's great. I'm not guilty. You're the one who's guilty. Lawmakers, the politicians, the Colombian drug lords,

all you who lobby against making drugs legal, just like you did with alcohol during the prohibition. You're the one who's guilty. I mean, come on, let's kick the ballistics here. Ain't no oozy's made in Harlem. I mean, not one of us in here owns a poppy feet. This thing is bigger than Nino Brown. This is big business.

This is the American way. I'm sure that the court was enlightened by your geopolitical tirade, Mr. Brown. Unfortunately, society at large is not on trial here. You are, Mr. Brown. Bill, wait, we didn't talk about the scene where he's fucking, where they get raided and he's fucking, he has the dog right here and he fucking stabs Karim Akbar. Is that not in the rewatchable scenes? It should be.

I accidentally omitted it. I'm sorry. That five-minute action scene? I was like, I was like, that's never one. Yeah. That might be the coolest scene. That whole scene Just real quick about that

Real quick about that scene First of all They all come to Nino Nino establishes a dress code obviously Because it's a funeral for the Carter That's a funeral scene The Carter is done there in mourning So I'm wondering when Nino tells everybody

I thought about this, Nino tells everybody Yo everybody come, we got to meet Everybody wear black So he comes out with a Rock Waller That chain and a sword in his cane. And it's just, remember, it reminds you of untouchables

when Al Capone is walking around and he's got the bat and he ends up bashed the eyes head in. It just lets you know how powerful and feared Al Capone is. He's in the room with other gangsters. Yeah. And they're scared. So that scene definitely has to be in it. It's funny because it reminds me also that Martin episode

and we can get that in the second because Martin was supposed to be in the shit. No, but Martin was supposed to be in this movie. And so when he says, when Martin says that callback, why are we all wearing all black? And Martin goes, I'm setting my scene. That's literally what they were doing in the black. It was so great with the medieval house that I thought was a little hacky, but whatever. But it was just a great scene. So, Bill, man, that has to be a rewatchable scene, bro.

Listen, it was an accidental error. I have, like, pay-re-watchable scenes. Let's go. Let's go. The rooftop's the winner, though. The rooftop was an iconic scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the movie theater, and I remember seeing this in the theater, and it was kind of a moment watching it, because the movie, you know, it's fun, it's pop culture, then it gets dark, and there's action scenes, and Judd Nelson's in it, and we're going to talk about Judd at the end of this, we're saving him.

And then all of a sudden there's like an Oscar scene in it. You embarrass me, man. From all them people, you treated me like I was soft, man. You treated me like I was spineless. We built this shit. You didn't do this shit by yourself! You forgot about me, man. Your brother.

What has this done to us, G? Huh? Keisha? Dad. The daughter man? Dad. Let's just make it like it was, man. Let's be a family, man.

Let's make it like it was. Me and you, man. We can, man, fuck them cars and the bitches and the men. shit, man. Fuck that shit, man. Let's do us, man. Me and you. Let's be a family again. And both of those guys are so

great in that. And then when G money drops to his knees and the tears are going down wet and Wesley's got like really good crying. Yeah, some people just cry well. The tears are like fat, fat tears dripping down. It just looks good. And then you're like, oh, he won't actually shoot him. And they

fucking shoots him. But he had to shoot him. He had to. I get it. But that was an iconic 90th scene. It really was. But like, that's the moment Nino stopped being black. I'm serious. He started being a drug dealer

when he was there? Yeah, that's the moment because I, there's we, look, get why, look, actually, I don't get why Scarface killed Manny. Scarface did not have to kill Manny at all. It's the most upsetting moment. Yeah, other than Frato getting killed

in the history of movies. Scarface did not have to, there was absolutely, there's way more movie for Nino to kill G. Money than there was for Scarface to kill Manny. Scarface had no reason to kill Manny. But when you watching that movie, I remember watching that movie with my dad and my uncles and they'll be like, damn,

he can't, man, he can't do his partner like that. And my dad never got over there, but that'd be like, I can't believe Nino Brown did his partner like that. I can't believe Nino Brown. And that's the moment that you realized, even though Nino is of that, Nino ain't one of you because

that's something that for at least where I'm from, if your man's is just incompetent, then he's incompetent. But if he didn't snake you on purpose, I don't know. That changes Nino's characters. Makes Nino even more evil than hell.

But I think he knows that guy wants to snake him though because G-Money even says earlier he's like, you know, I should be the guy. He does, I think he feels like this guy's going to get me so I got to get him first, would be my take on that. It's funny the conflictions that you see in Nino's face throughout that whole scene, right? Because he's crying, right?

He knows he has to do this. Like, that's unassailable. He has to do this right now. And he hugs him, he kisses him. He almost lets him pass. And he's like, no, fuck that. No, fuck that. I have to kill you.

Like, I have to do you like this. But it was weird because it's like, there's no redeeming character in this movie, man. Like, G. Money fucks up the whole operation. Then Nino kills him. and then Nino snitches on the whole operation. He snitches on Kareem. There's no redeemable character in this movie,

which I think makes the movie great. So rooftop scene, that's our winner. Today's most rewatchable scene was presented by Blue Moon because once in a blue moon moment should happen more than once in a blue moon celebrate responsibly. Blue Moon Brewing Company Golden Colorado Ale. Special category just for this movie. Let's do it.

The most 1991 moment. Here are nominees. music can't count except for one I'm going to throw in. G Money's green velour adida suit. The hats, the Kangol, the Kangol joints, yep. The Fat Rope Chains. Color Me Bad coming in at a point in their career when people really like, I still defend them, but when people like their music and it was actually cool to have them in a movie,

or the opening credits where we have the early 90s happy hip hop, the big 90s graphics, the news anchors, and then the helicopter. Just felt very 91 to me. Those are my nominees, unless you have anything else for what's the most thankful to anyone. So here's my thing. I think the Kangols aren't supposed to be in the 90s. It's so of the 80s.

I think the Kangols are supposed to be in the 80s. Well, the whole movie is set in the 80s. It's not in the 90s. It's 86 and 89. So I think the Kangos, so I think the Kangos, so here's my thing about the Kangos. The Kangos represent the fact that when they first got,

that there's something, time pass. When they first were getting this pop and they were a little younger, they had the can go's on. Because by time, the time this movie came out, the can goes kind of, they kind of weren't around anymore. Okay, so we'll cross them off. But I give you one more, though. Yeah. Flavor Flav. Like Flav like Flav like Flav as the MC at the spotlight later on. You know what I mean? By the way, looking, looking healthy and handsome. Super healthy, cool flavor of Flavs. It's good to see him. It's good to see him. I just want to say that scene where he's walking in where Nino's walking in.

He might have been the coolest motherfucker on the planet when he walked in the first time. When he gets in, he's dabbing people up. They said, bro, you're going to check me for my piece? Nope. All right, bet. And then he goes in. He gets his champagne, has his straw in the champagne.

He kisses the beautiful woman. Then he's like, everybody's fucking with him. He was the, and he was saucy. He was the coolest dude on the whole planet for those 30 seconds. And he is, when I watch it, I was like, damn, that's when people, when you talk about why people want Mino Brown, it's that walk into the club where Everybody knows who you are and you were just the coolest motherfucker in the whole city. Yep.

Well, our winner is the green Valour Adidas suit is just... Did that ever come back? That came back, right? Yeah, yeah. How, yeah. I had them in every color. I was like driving down in New Orleans to buy Sean John. It's so comfortable.

Puffs still wearing them. What saves the best? We mentioned how well they use Scarface. The character names. include G-Money, Pookie, Fatsmini, Duh, Duh, Man, and Frankie Needles. Great job. Whoever, when they were coming up with the character names, just great job with all that. Nino's clothes, Logan mentioned earlier.

His clothes are fantastic in this movie. Right. Amazing. When we go to arenas, I'm coming back with Nino's wardrobe. I'm coming back with that. I would argue the NBA guys probably sampled this a little bit. Some of the stuff he's wearing his stuff. This film, the way he would be draped out in the full suits with the butt in

up, but it was like the, everybody was on that way. And then Wesley could pull it off because Wesley was like, Wesley was so lean and built. He could pull it off. Everybody was, if you go back and look at those old NBA, look at the way Dion Sanders was dressing, like in the prime time, you know, when he had the all black joints on or like everybody was on that way. No, also another thing, clothing wise that's aged really well, Kente cloth. There was a lot of Kente cloth in this movie.

When you talk about the Kente cloth with that, uh, that iced tea was wearing as the beanie on the on the um on the beach scene that was a nasty beach by the way and then you have just like all that that's you know when you talk about um just kente cloth in general the the the coofy memes now like kente cloth we're out here uh we mentioned the flavor flave cameo which is really unexpected and and awesome cash money records yeah influenced all of this the all the carter albums like it's just funny like it you it got to the point where you didn't even make the new Jack thing anymore because it became such of its own thing,

but the tie-in is funny. Cia wouldn't want to be, I just enjoy it. I feel like Wesley Snipes has said that in like three movies. Yeah. And the women in this movie feel very early 90s in a good way to me, capped off by Michael Michelle, who I still feel like is like top six or seven.

Gorgeous. Most beautiful. She's in Ali, where they just need the characters like, all right, we need somebody who's so beautiful. Ali completely loses. his way and they're like, let's get her.

I always liked her. And Tracy Camilla Johns, really? And like a career that... Hold this. I have stuff coming on that one. Okay, okay. And then one other Wood's Age the Best. And again, we're holding all Judd Nelson commentary until the end of this movie.

But Ice Tea and Jed Nelson together, kind of the CBS Police Show we never got. Wait, one more thing. You just kind of touched on it. I think you were going to this. Ice tea as a cop. Beautiful age. beautifully. Right?

This was before a cop killer. And before Law & Order. He made a whole living on cop all being a cop. The funny thing is people get on IC for playing the cop now. He'd be like, yo, I started playing the cop. Like his first big deal, I mean, he was in breaking two for like two seconds. But his first big, huge movie deal, he was playing a cop. So there you go.

It's consistent. I don't think anyone's had a more complicated history with cops in a pop culture standpoint than Ice Tea. He's been all over the map. How many cops has he played? At least three different things, right? At least three different times. Probably two other movies, I forgot.

Any other words? What about C crooked cop's redemption story? Because Ice T's character, Crooked Cop has to get on straight, but we need these guys. They're our best men. They know the thing. And Judd Nelson's character, also a terrible cop

and there has to have a redemption story. That's a very, that's something that is always reoccurring when you talk about these types of movies. It's a crooked cop that saves the day. So, crooked cop redempts the story is that for me. Do they do that anymore? I feel like that's, that, that's been retired. It's probably gone now, but it stayed around for so long. There's only one cop that we could get.

Like, if that's, like, a couple years before, remember Cobra? You know what I mean? There's only, there's only one cop we can get to do this. And it was huge in the 80s. What's age, what's age the worst? I can't believe how bad the Italian mobsters are in this movie. It's pretty bad. Every single piece of it doesn't work.

The actors are terrible. The accents are terrible. The racism. Yeah. It's just every single piece of it is a miss. And it's like they put so much thought into all the other pieces of this movie. And then when it came to the white people that they needed for the movie, it seemed like they put two seconds of it in. They're just terrible.

They're bad actors. Everything is bad about them. But this is the only movie ever where Italian mobsters get their comeuppance for being racist. And I don't know why, but there's a complete exception that we make. The Godfather has one of the most racist lines

of all time. And we just let it fly by. Right about racist scenes. Racist scenes. Like, the Godfather's like, the movie, like, they don't have any soul. They know, their animals anywhere. So let them. I'm like, God damn.

Okay. You know, and then even, you know, And then, you know, Goodfellas, and then the Sopranos, all of this. But we just kind of, we just go with it. And this is the only movie where actually, where actually they're outwardly racist. They do racist stuff.

And then the black guy comes back because not only they're, you know, messing over his business, but also because of the way he's treated. And they get their just deserts. We normally give that a pass. And I really don't know why. Like some people... I think the biggest, what's age is the worst for me,

is crack. And I think we can just go on that. I think it's just, it didn't age well for anybody involved. I think it was, it's actually a great call. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. I, uh, I have the disclaimer at the end as it would stage the worst. Just a bad choice. Somebody should talk

Mara Van Peebles out of that. We, I think we mentioned he directed this. Also, Ice T's wig was pretty terrible. It was pretty bad. Also, he didn't need the wig. Well, I would say crack in the drug war itself. Because this movie, this movie is, a major, major, major,

major advocate of the drug war. This movie is making the drug war seem like it's a war worth fighting, and that's a war where someone can win, and there's a war where there's a good and a bad side. And I think if you look at it with the 360 scope, most of those things you're going to come away with not being true, even statistically. Forget about morally, you know, in terms of the drug war.

Yeah, I think another thing that was, was age the worst is I know like to as character development we were supposed to hate Nino Brown's supposed to hate this but like women being used as pawns for this right

like I don't I think that the story could have been told way better I mean it could have been still been told if like the scene where Nino doesn't have to portray G Money through a woman right I don't think that that's that's something that we need to have

or like when he says you know fuck that woo woo woo I'm not gonna say the what he said at the end But like, you're saying this over a woman. You're saying this over a thing. And I didn't think it was really just necessary. You could say that G, money betrayed you without bringing a woman into it.

And I know this is, and then like the cancel that chick, you know what I mean? I don't think you needed all of that to tell this story. You know what I would say about that, though? What's up? Happened in real life. Yeah. So, Nikki Barnes and. Which is portrayed on.

Which is this is. Yeah, a couple of different. So Nikki Barnes and those guys. up there in New York, there was a whole situation involving somebody who went to jail and then started sleeping with somebody's wife while they were gone. So I'd say like that part actually, it

happened in real life. Yeah. Using little girls as a human bullet shield is age the worst. Yes. My expert. But also, I think that was the same thing. I think that was the same thing of like, you want to make Meno a bad, a bad dude, like a very bad dude. And that was a way to do it.

Well, has it though? It depends. I mean, it's effective. I would say it would still probably be effective. So has it really aged that? Fair, maybe that. Maybe it's aged perfectly. We're going to take a break then we're doing casting what ifs. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana.

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Schedule pickup. And we'll come to you with a check. in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. If you're chasing data down instead of seeing it in one place, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite. All your data in one place with built-in AI for real-time insights. Learn more at intuitt.com slash ERP. All right, coming back, casting what ifs. Yeah. Logan just stepped all over, the best one. You just peed all over it 15 minutes ago.

Martin Lawrence, cast is spooky. Oh, I knew that. Had it. He had the job. That would have been amazing. That would have been amazing. He would have did such a great job. Not the fact that I think he would have did a better job to Chris Rock, to be honest with you.

So Cooper, one of the writers said Martin Lawrence's mentor, Robin Harris died. And Martin was fucked up by it. He was so sad. Yeah. And so he opted out of the movie and Chris Rock was the backup. Did not know that. Also didn't know that. right turned down ice t's part that would have been amazing ike was a backup choice

michael wright would have then they got back together i think for sugar hill yep michael michael right would have killed this this part man vibica a fox audition for both selina and kisha and they really liked her but they couldn't figure out and they just ended up not having her and she ended up doing 902 and o that year which i think is the biggest one side or the other she was on a 902 one episode or she could have been a new jack city i don't think there are more polar opposites in 1991 pop culture. I know, but I'm honest with you, though. She

got super cooking hot around the mid-90s. It worked. It worked out. Set it off. Set it off. She killed the same kind of role and set it off. She would have been great for Keisha. She would have been great. Also, I think that I just think this, Vanessa Williams,

like the Vanessa Williams, no, no, the Vanessa Williams that we all know, like the Rick Fox Vanessa Williams would have been great as Nino's girlfriend. I just wanted to say that because that just made me, as I was thinking and I saw it up on the screen immediately. It was like Vanessa Williams would have been a great, great

girlfriend for Meno. Alan Payne was a replacement. They actually had this guy Orange Juice Jones cast his G. Money and then he dropped out. What? Yeah. I saw you and him. Walking in the rain. You know that song, Bill? That's Orange Juice Jones. Like, He was in the movie.

They filmed scenes with them and then they fired him. Wait, what? That was according to my research. That's fucking crazy. I will be honest with you. That song right there is so 80s. That's the most 80s thing ever. Go listen to Walking in the Rain.

At the end of the movie, Rockwell is the most 80s song ever. Rockwell's pretty 80s too. Catchers a girl's cheating. And then he does a whole spoken word about taking all of her stuff back. My dad used to love that song. That would have been so interesting with him in it. I always wonder what happened to him.

I have a more interesting fact for you. Okay, let's go. Wesley Snipes obviously was locked in as Nino. But G Money, they auditioned some people. Let's talk about it. Including Tupac Shakur. Who, for G Money? For G Money.

And they decided he looked too much younger than Wesley Snipes for it to be believable that they both grew up together. There were two years apart. I don't know. I don't, yeah, I would have been a whole different, I don't know, man. I would like to see, like, Pac is like, Nino. I think I would rather see Pock as Nino than you. I think he was too young.

I'd be honest with you. There's a, so Pock is able to do something, both musically and on screen, that very few people are able to do. Pock is able to be both unbelievably aggressive and, like, a super vulnerable person. even in like above the rim where he plays birdie like a the dope guy

the king of that of that little neighborhood he just wants his brother back and there's a point where he and I think I think we're going to be interesting to see Pock as G. Money just to see him

he both strong and just want his friend back it would be interesting to see I don't know if it would have been better because I think Al Pan was perfect but I would have been interested in it I'm going to make the case that they should have done it although he Tupac was

when they filmed this movie. But I think you could have tweaked it and made it so that he was the younger brother of, you know, his best friend, something like that. So you would have addressed the age difference early and he's like the up and comer. He's going to be the pip into the Jordan. And I think it would have worked.

I think he would have been better. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. Is Radio Rahim, is he that guy or do people know he's Bill Nung? Because I know he's Bill Nung, but I think most people see him and just know him as Radio Rahim. Meanwhile, he's been in a bunch of stuff.

I think he was that guy. I think you're right on, man. I think he is one of those that guys. Because once you see him and he's a very distinctive person, but he's not a guy that you just say, oh, I know his name. Oh, but he's that person.

I would agree. He was the only person written on this category for me. I think so like he's in He Got Game. He's like the kind of pedophiley uncle. And when I saw him, I didn't know what his name was. I just knew it was older Radio Rahim. He's always feeling he's radio to him.

Yeah, he is. So I would say, so this is what I would say. I would say he's that guy plus. He's like, because. Supersized that guy. Supersized that guy. Because I know him as Bill Nun just because he's been so much, so fantastic in everything. And you can't really be familiar with Spike Lee without knowing Bill Nun.

Was he an X too? Was he in Malcolm X too? He's been in like five or six. He could. I can't remember. I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised. But he was in Mobetta Blues.

He was in Duke. the right thing. Yeah. So he was in a bunch of those movies. But then he also then comes back and he's like he pops up. He read that guy. He doubles down on being that guy because he pops back up in the Spider-Man movies where you just kind of see him a couple of scenes.

But he's passed away now. But like Bill Nunn, I got to make sure, you know, give him his respect and his name. But he's definitely that guy type. I think the guy who shoots Nino in the end, I don't even know who that guy's name is, but he's a that guy. The police sergeant, the police sergeant, very that guy-ish. I can't remember where I've seen him,

but I know he's that guy. I have a very underrated that guy, and it's not even a guy. It's a woman. It's the woman that is in the, that is in Pookie's drug rehabilitation meetings where she's talking about what crack did to her and how it affected her and how it affected her life.

Oh, she had a whole that guy career. Hold that guy career. I mean, that person. She is that person for sure. Which lady, though, because both, of them are because one of them is the same girl from summer school and the same girl summer school great movie this is why is that guy because i don't know their names the fact that we're all confused makes them eligible i said i said i said walter mosley i am so

sorry that that is a great writer and so it's bill cops so that guy's name is bill cops that old guy he's also in demolition man and in a bunch of other movies but he's a that guy he's a that guy he's also a Morgan Freeman meaning that he got to be one age and he's this age in New Jack City and then he stays this age forever for like 15 years yeah

right so he never he's that dude and that age in every movie Vanessa Williams not of that guy because she went on to be the only black character at Melrose Place and was a big part of the cast and then had a whole name thing with the other Vanessa Williams who was married to Rick Fox, and the other Vanessa Williams had to change her name and become Vanessa L. Williams,

because the other New Jack City of Vanessa Williams had put herself in first. The Vincent Hanna, Give Me All You Got a Word for Best Overacting. I hate to do our guys tea like this, but... Yes, I agree. The ending scene when he's going to shoot Nino and he's, I want to shoot you so bad, my dick's hard, and he's doing like the pulsating eye thing. He really, really, really, really dials it up. This ain't business, bitch.

This is personal. I want to shoot you so bad. My dick's hard. Come up, Drew, excuse me. You know what? That's not even, that's not even his most overacting scene. His most overacting scene is when he's at the beach with Pookie. And he's like, and he's like, I don't even have glasses on me, but he's like, listen, man, they kill my, he killed my moms.

Are you ready for this? Are you doing, are you, you owe my mother. You owe my mother. You owe everybody. You owe yourself. You owe me. I'm like, okay. All right. All right.

We get it, bro. You better be ready, homeboy, but you owe a whole lot of people, man. You're me. You're yourself. You're the whole community, man. You even on my mother. Yeah, that's right. Little junkie just like you. Kill my mother back in 1974.

Didn't take no money, didn't take no jury. Just, pah! Took her life, you know what I'm saying? Now, I don't know what you got left from your so-called rehabilitated little body here or whatever. But you better find something, because you owe a lot. lot of people, man. You're a lot of people. This is not Ice T's finest worth.

But it's one of his, and we can say that too because he's really early on in his acting career. Like, I'm not going to hold this against him. He killed it. He's had a legendary career. Yeah, I had this for picking Nits. I guess we can do it now. I guess the question is could we have done better than Ice T in this movie? Because he's all over the map

acting wise. And yet, he's iced T and I still enjoy having a minute. He was, I think that it's perfect. But that doesn't mean that it's great. And I think that it's perfect, though. Well said. Dian Waiters, this is a one-person category.

It's Tracy Camilla Johns. Absolutely. Jesus Christ. Who is just like, has like a big tube of sex. And she's just squeezing it and spraying it everywhere. Oh, okay. Every moment she's in this movie, she's sex, sex, sex. But here's thing, weirdest IMDB.

I don't know who the winner is of this, but she's in the mix. She's the lead and she's got to have it. That's where she starts. This movie that puts Spike Lee on the map. That's crazy you said that because, okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Nike Air Jordan ad with Spike Lee and Michael Jordan in 1988.

Basically reprising the role almost of Nola Darling. Because Mars Blackman is in, she's got to have it. Yeah. Yep. She's the hot female in Tonloaks 198888 video Wild thing. Right. She's in an episode of, a family ties.

She has a small cameo on Mo Better Blues. And then she's in this movie and does not have another IMDB credit for 21 years. Until she comes back as Nola Darling in Red Hook Summer. I don't know what happened. I googled this. I researched it. I tried to find out.

I don't know what happened to her for 21 years. There's no record on the internet of it. So this is my thing. when I first saw her, because I had seen she's got to have it, and she looks different as she's got to have it, right? So when I first saw her, I remember it didn't dawn on me to like 92 or 93 that it was the same person. Yeah. So because the hair is different.

And so when I saw that, I was like, yo, you know, what went on? And she just never popped up again. And it was weird because she's got to have it was a big deal. that she's a huge part of this movie. And when I was doing this rewatch, I said, finally, I'm going to find out, like, what happened with Tracy and Camilla John. Do you have an answer?

I do not. Like, I'm telling you, you would, I spent a long time on it. You would have to talk to Spike, I bet. I spent a long time on it. I was looking to see, I was looking for all. the normal tropes.

Did she get married to some guy who plays for the Lakers? Did she start directing? Did she start producing? There's, there's two possibilities. Either she just got married

and had kids or she had some sort of drug substance thing. Because nobody dropped off the map for 20 years. Or she just, or the fucking movie business just got to her

and she was like, fuck this shit. But the real, but you're still going to be like in a cameo or like a bit part in something. So that thing is

the, reality with that is, I thought about that, but she was directly connected and obviously has a great working relationship to one of the most prolific directors in Hollywood. Like, you can literally make a career for yourself just being in Spike Lee movie. A lot of people have done it. Because he put her in the Nike ad. Yeah, who obviously liked. So you could make a, you can make a completely career for yourself, like, just doing Spike's

movies. And people, like, people have. So I wonder kind of what the thing was. All right, so listen, people listening, go into Van and Logan's Twitter replies if you know the answer to what happened to Tracy Camilla Johns, because it is a mystery. She's super talented and incredibly beautiful. Oh, my, I had a very big crush on her and watching that movie. Also, Van, I think you can relate to this. When that scene where she takes the remote and turns on the music in front of that other black woman's face, the tension of that scene, Van, the tension of that 30 seconds.

is, oh my goodness. It's, it's, I was like, I was scared. I was scarier than anything that I'd ever see because you don't do that. You just do not do that to another black woman, bro. True. But also, can we make the argument that Pookie is the Dionne Waiters Award? Can we make the argument to that? He's in it too much.

He's too much of a part. Okay. It's too big of a part. Okay. All right, all right. And Judd Nelson gets his own category later, so we can't qualify him either. Recasting couch, this is easy to me. And granted, we might have been able to do better than I's tea.

But Tom Seismore is the Italian mobster. That works. Just put him in. He just would have been great as the ponytail guy. It just needs a real actor for that part. That guy's so bad. That scenes could have been... Wesley shouldn't be trampling the other actor in those scenes.

And it's just a bummer. Half-ass internet research. Oh, I have one more. I have one more for recasting couch. Yeah. What do we think of Eddie Murphy as Nino Brown? because remember this was egregionally at paramount as the Nikki Barnes story and Eddie Murphy was attached to it.

Eddie's too beloved. You'd have to know where he was at that point. It would be just like a fucking... It's the same reason why they never made John Cena a bad guy in the WW or the Rock. You just can't do it. When somebody becomes so much of a good guy, he can't flip it. What about Denzel as Nino? Maybe.

This was the right time for him. Yeah. I doubt, but, you know, he wouldn't have... the thing about Denzel is that we had to do we didn't get Alonzo to like 10 years later and I think that didn't I think there was a reason why but

but he could have definitely pulled it off yeah well I think he made uh he made more better booze instead probably the same time right well Wesley was in that yeah yeah so I don't know I almost feel like he would have been too good of an actor for this movie he's just too regal

yeah like it's like you know Wesley had a little bit more And this was Wesley's vibe, man Yeah, he's more pop-culturey I don't know, he just fits better Halfass Center Research Here's why Ice T said the sequel was botched Apparently there was a sequel

He said one was he got in trouble for cop killer And then two was Wesley Snipes Got $7 million for demolition man This is what ICT said Wesley's numbers just went up They ain't have no 7 million for Wesley To do New Jack City Part 2 So he went off and worked with Stallone

I got in trouble shit kind of just got fucked up. I don't know how they would. So I guess they would have said, Nino survived the shooting. I saw. I read the stream. Nino survived it. And then Nino was trying to.

How does he survive that, bro? There's no way. That's Hollywood. There's no way he survived it. I got to say, I'm not against it. I would have enjoyed New Jack City, too. I would have been there opening weekend. I'll tell you what.

I'll tell you something else. Simon Phoenix, one of the great all-time movie villains. I don't care what anyone says from Demolition Man. Love that movie. I saw another half-ass internet's research. The origin of Nino Brown name was, uh,

Nino Gabriel on, was based on a storefront on 3rd Avenue in New York. And it was because of the, of the, I think it was the guy you referenced, Barry, uh, Michael Cooper, was in Harlem and said, that's where all the Harlem gangsters used to go to get their shoes.

And that's where when he got up, and he saved for a pair of shoes. And it was from Nino Gabriel. That was what I saw from the, um, thing. So that was the origin of Nino Brown's name. Great name. Uh, more half-assed. Only have a couple things here.

Inside the actor's studio, 1994, Chris Rock claimed that for the three years following this performance as a crack addict, drug dealers would approach him and put crack and cocaine in his pockets, joking that they thought it was a documentary. And this was a thing that happened to him. So there you go. I'm not supposed to laugh, but that's hilarious. That's funny.

This film premiered at Sundance in January and 19. It was only the second year ever of Sundance. The first year was Sex Lise and Videotape. This was one of the big movies. Second year, it does not seem like a Sundance. Video tape. Shout out Bat Rouge. Shout out Webby.

Shout out boozy. R.P. a little fat. Cooper, the writer that we talked about, he said they intentionally made a comic book type of look for some of the visual stuff, including Nino's mansion. They wanted to make it almost seem like he was part vampire, that he was sucking the blood out of his neighborhood and that's why it almost feels like Dracula's lair his branch in the dark

the color to um to uh was it blade when he was uh when he was a van did he play a vampire or was that a wrong movie because Wesley Snipes ended up playing a vampire you just van's gonna fight you now did you just ask King nerd Van Lathan if Wesley Snipes

played a vampire in Drake this is this is so odd I listen man I'm like 12 I was just doing he played with the age is going I'm sorry. The Day Walker. His mother was beaten by a vampire while she was pregnant with Blade. You should have asked fan if Shaq went to LSU because that would have set him off even more.

All of their strengths. I'm about to walk off right now. None of their weaknesses. He is a special hybrid between vampire and human, but he still has to thirst. All right, all right, I'm sorry. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Vanded Jack got to LSU? Shut up, man.

All the pop culture, hip-hop influences on this are, are two, there's too many to mention. What's your favorite? Because I have them all written down here. Guy. Guy being in the movie. Aaron Hall. Aaron Hall and Aaron Hall and Guy being in the movie because I think that something we don't have in the society anymore because the Internet gives rise to all cultures at once, which is good because that means that nobody feels like they're without a tribe.

But we've talked about this before, sort of how the internet has been the death of monoculture, right? So what used to happen is films used to inspire cultures, music would inspire cultures, and the New Jack swing, the New Jack era, just basically looking at the past music of the day, incorporating all of this stuff into it and making some different, aggressive, more direct sound. That's what was happening to culture, period. That part of the 80s was given birth to new stars.

This movie signifies that because you see Wesley Snipes and Ice T. These aren't any of the regularly scheduled players. This is a new Jack movie with even a new Jack filmmaker. You know what I mean? So all of that, when you see Teddy Riley, who's really one of the architects of that sound in the film, it just kind of brings it all together. And they just jamming in that bitch. Man, that shit was jamming, man.

Like, it makes me misfunction so much, man. It makes me just miss going out to a party, not with no VIP section, just the fucking dance floor and we're going in. Yeah. Apex Mountain. Wesley Snipes. Yeah.

So I'm going to make the case for yes. Because I think from this point on, he can make any movie he wants. the fact that this movie made money and was culturally relevant, opened doors for him that I don't think were open before this movie and anything that happens to him after this movie, I feel like it happened because of this movie. He's had bigger moments, but not greater moments.

I think this was probably his signature performance. Alan Payne, the answer to be yes. Not sure. He worked for a long time after this. He worked for a long time, but this was his signature. But he had a movie. He did a movie called Jason's Lyric. That's a classic.

Yeah, that's a good one. He was in the perfect storm. Wasn't he in that joint? So he worked for a long time after this. He's been a working actor, but, nah, this was his biggest deal. Ice tea, I'm going to say no. No. Human bullet shields?

Ooh. Human bullet shields, yes. Oh, I'd say so. Or would you say heat? Heat is one. The dead zone is one, but this is probably more recognizable. Would you have, Logan? I had a New Jack swing as an Apex Mountain.

What do we think, Van? It would be hard to. to give it to a movie. I'm talking about the moment. We're talking about like Expect Mountain of like this is the height of what it is of the genre. Was this the height of the genre? Like for me, in hindsight, looking back, I would say yes. But like you lived through it.

So I would, that's why I would throw it to you. That's an interesting question because it does mean that the genre got so big that they put it in a movie title. So I, yeah, I get what you're talking about for sure. Because it got so big that it made it to Hollywood for sure. Yeah. Also, also a throw-all. kind of a throw-off to that is, is this Apex Mountain for Guy? No.

Hell no. You're going to piss everybody off, Logan. Relax. Listen, I've already pissed people off. I already pissed people off with the, is Wesley Snipes a vampire? Wait a second. Are we sure it's not Apex Mountain for a guy?

It's not. They get named in the movie. They introduce each member and then they perform in a movie that made $50 million. All right. I want you guys to take. I want you guys to just be gentle here, tread easy. We talk, we're talking about Guy here. I'm going to go to, hey, fantasy.

We're talking about, let's chill. We're talking about, we're talking about, we're talking about Guy here. Man, I'm about, I'm about, I'm about to go ahead and some auntie going to kick my ass. We're talking about, yeah, they're talking about Guy here. The fact that they had a, look, the fact that Guy had a cameo in this movie. It's a big cameo. It can't be, I love it. It can't be the apex mile for God.

Okay. No way. Chris Rock's movie. career. Oh. Yeah. That's a fair. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm going to say yes. It's a pooty tank. And then people are like, top five was great. Top five was fine. It's cool. This is the best he's ever been in a movie, in my opinion. Top five was cool.

This is his most recognizable role. He never really took off as a movie guy, but this is his most recognizable role. He had other things that we like head of states and stuff like that. Wait, I was going to say head of state was head of state. was head of state apex mountain for him because you can make the argument you can make the case

as a precursor to Barack Obama you can make the case that that was his that it was his apex mountain I mean it was as a precursor of Barack Obama like head of state came out and then I made

like 20 million people in America go I vote for a black guy like that's hell of wild box haircuts fresh friends come on

what are we talking about is that first prince might be up there but this had a lot of high tops in it because he had the 91 playoffs right around the same time which might have been the apex for box haircuts in the NBA so just a combo I rocked a flat top until I held on I rocked the flat top until 94

and when I was going that summer I was going in the ninth grade my brother was like yo do do yourself in favor cut that shit off your head it's over it's over what about Mario Van Van People speaking of how of box cuts. I think Mario Van Peebles,

this was 100% his apex mouth. Even if you look back at his IMDB, he's like directing TV episodes and there is no hint that he's going to make

a $50 million movie. And after this, he bought a lot of style, like I saw every movie he made after this for about eight years. He did posse, he did Posse, he did Panther.

By the way, he did Ali. He also did Ali. He didn't do Ali. Michael. Well, he didn't direct it. He's in it. No,

didn't direct it. He was in Oli. He's in Oli. He's good in Oli. He's great. Great Ali. He has a fine career. He has a fine career, but this is probably his most. Also, Mario Van Peeples, when we talked about black exploitation in the next step, his dad was the architect of Blacksploitation films. Melvin Van Peeples. Yeah, for sure. And actually, it was 20 years before this when he had his big one. So, um, boomerang. Great movie. Bill Nunn. Bill Nunn, no. It's got to be Radio Rahim. for sure Ray Aranhee Judd Nelson no

And we're not allowed to talk about Jud Nelson yet Color me bad I'm gonna say no Because there's an entire 902101 episode built around them That's Apex Mountain Also they had a number one record

So that can't be Yeah they were legit for a year and a half They were by the way They are good musicians Yeah Like it's like they had They had dope music It's just they looked

Super fucking weird Was this is this Apex Mountain For Zoot suits Is it Apex Mountain for Zoot Suites or no? Or is there another time? What would be the winner if it wasn't this? I don't know. I never thought about it.

Some 40s film, I don't know. All right, we're taking one more break and then we're going to do Pickingitz. Paradigone presents in the Red Corner the Undisputed Undefeated Weed Wacker Guys. Champion of Hurling Grass and Pollin everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength, Hatternay. Eye drops and work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes.

And the winner by knockout is Hatterday. Padiday. Bring it on. All right, pick a nits. Would I have really spent that much time saving Pookie? She's going to spend day after day in the room with him? Like, that's how he's going to. to spend six months of his life.

He's a cop. He's a job. It's also a black man, though. You know what I mean? Before anything, and he probably has empathy for Pookie in a general sense. Like, I would say, yeah.

But they're not related, though. Yeah. He's just this random dude that he shot. But he also, so put yourself in a position of Scotty here. So you have to look at Scotty. Like, Scotty's mom,

Scotty's almost like Batman. Right? Yeah. You know how Batman has, think about, nobody cares as much. about crime as Batman does. We all live with crime.

You know, Batman just can't stand crime. Batman is crime crazy. Batman is so crime crazy. The Batman is like, I'm going to dig a cave in the bottom of my house and make gadgets to stop crime. And the reason why he's like that is because a traumatic experience informs him. And so when you look at Scotty, Scotty's obsessed in the same way. He's like a cop version of Batman.

He's obsessed in that same way. So when he looks at the kid that he shot, he probably thinks, I have to make the same extra special effort with him. It's consistent with the character, is what I'm saying. It's consistent with this guy who has this burning desire to rid his community of this. He feels like he shot that kid and it led to his spiral down into being a crackhead. And so he wants to kind of help him out of it. I don't know if it's realistic, but it's consistent with the character.

Two pickiness for me, and they both related to iced tea. the one thing that I have from Ice Tea is Ice Tea going undercover picking it's just in general I know that would fuck up the whole thing I just felt they recognize him he's too omnipresent Exactly and also The end of the movie them beating in broad daylight

In Harlem around the corner from the Carter To say this is the big plan we're gonna do Like how does how does Ice Tea not get found out Throughout this whole process bro Like you are a cop put somebody else on that Like he did but he did get found out though. Right.

Huh? No, but they're just, I know, but I'm just saying it would be less likely for him to get found out if one, he wasn't going undercover and two, they weren't cop.

He wasn't meeting with cops in broad daylight right before he's about to fucking do a deal with Nino Brown. I thought, I thought, uh, I thought that was a stretch.

Oh, wait, one more, one more, one more, one more. I'm still going. Pookie's belt camera. Well, the technology of we have this perfect video coming from this belt camera

from really far away. Just did not exist in 1991. Where is he putting his belt? You're seeing like Christopher Williams like this. But like, how are you seeing that? In 2021, the technology might not even look like that. I got to be honest.

I got to be honest with you. You know, you guys can pick this knit all you want. But y'all don't pick this knit when James Bond and Q come up with all of this. I haven't done a James Bond rewatchables yet. I used to watch that James Bond shit back in the day. This used to be so amazing. That's a fair James Bond point. Right.

Wait. But what about Pookie getting a stunt? double when he's going in rehab. Like when he's like withdrawing, why is there just a bald black dude over here? It could have definitely been Pookie being going through withdrawal. That's not a stunt right there. You see like when when he's at the bedside, I don't get why there has to be a stunt double for a withdrawal scene.

We mentioned the big plan to have Pookie undercover around crack every day. Just somebody probably should have. Couldn't figure out why Selena like Nino so much. Which, Nino's like, he's a terrible guy. who treats you like shit? Why are you so attached to this guy? Because Nino got that charisma though. I get it.

I get it. Those girls like it. Smoking hot, though. Hey, those girls like guys like that. How does Nino not die in the wedding hit? The guys, the Italians are like 15 feet away from him and they have machine guns. He's just ducking bullets, diving around. So this is my only, this is why I picked that nip.

Nino drives by on the back of a ninja bike. and kills 10. All of those guys. He goes 10 for 10. That's like black superhero type shit. On the back of a motorbike, he didn't get out stop and spray.

He like gets out and kills everybody. They come to him standing still and they can't get him. And they kill everybody except for the guy they're going for. It just seemed like, I actually had that written down. It seemed like, God damn, man.

Come up. Great aim in this movie. Just great aim in this movie. movie from black folks. Like, I don't get it. Like, the dude at the end is shooting Nino from like two flights of stairs down. And like, this is just wild. It's a tough movie for Italians, really across the board. As a half Italian, it's just, it's just a big loss. There's no good moment for an Italian in this. All right, best quote. I mean, this movie has really good, this has my brother, it's always business. It's never personal. Sit your $5 ass down before I make

change. You got a rob to get rich in the Reagan there. It goes on an eye. and on. There's a bunch of of high school yearbook quotes in this one. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show?

Absolutely. My initial instinct was no, and then I started to get excited about it the more I thought about it. I think it would be hard to do,

but you could do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Also, picking it, sorry, we just ended. How the hell

does Icedee have a baller-ass apartment like that on a cop salary? Was rent that cheap in New York? Oh, that's a bill question. I don't know.

Was that the apartment with the high ceilings in the windows? That was his, right? Yeah, that was like the Gordon Gecko's apartment in Wall Street. It's insane. It was so far out of whack for-up. Because movies like that and big, they made me think that everybody in New York had apartment that way. That was all saucy, yeah. $10,000 a month apartment.

Right. Probably in answerable questions. Van, how much did this movie influence the wire, in your opinion? Oh, good question. Well, so this is the, I think the, number one, I think the wire, I think Burns and Simon were definitely influenced by what it was that they were going through on the day to day because remember they were a police guy and then a newspaper guy. So that probably had way more influence on the, the, of them doing the wire than any one specific piece of, any one specific movie. but I will say this though the wire

is the wire and New Jack City are both obviously informed by the whole by the same real life because remember in the pit down in the wire it's all about taking over a project right so

Avon and Stringer had the high risers and then they had the low risers right they had two different projects where they controlled the drug trade there right so obviously that is something that was happening. Now, why I'm from, we had less projects, more neighborhoods, but obviously that is something that was happening.

So even though it might have not been directly influenced, there's a collective DNA that goes into both organizations in terms of what Avon and Stringer were doing and what Nino was doing because that was happening in real life. Guys were taking over and being the kingpins and controlling the drug trade in entire project buildings. Wow, wow. You know it's fascinating.

The Wire is only 12 years after this movie. And it feels like it's like 20, right? It feels like they're from two completely different cinematic characters. Twelve years is not that long. It's not that long. Only unanswerable question I had. Only other one was Pookie versus Bubbles in the finals for pop culture, crack addict that you're attached to.

Who do you have? For Crackhead Finals MVP? Pookie. Pookie versus Bubbles. Who had your heart more? Can I throw one in there? Yeah. I think there's one performance in movies.

It's not as famous. Sam Jackson? No. But it rivals this level of debauchery that we saw Pookie go through. Heartbreaking performance. Amanda Seafreed. That's not Amanda Seafreed, is it?

No, from traffic. Oh, Erica Christensen. Excuse me. Erica Christensen. I'm sorry, I mixed up my white women. Erica Christensen in traffic. That, when I saw, that. Yeah.

I, she was absolutely not. She's not, Bubbles is like the, like I said on the wire, he's a Tony Stark of drug addicts. But she, she, she's up there to me. It's hard to kind of judge with Bubbles because you had more time to, you had a lot more time to hang with Bubbles over seasons and seasons to really love him. There was only a couple times where Bubbles had a lot of scenes that Pookie had, where Pookie has, you know, the crack keeps calling me. calling me, he has a lot of sad scenes

like that, whereas, you know, you only saw Pookie for a limited amount of time. So I think it's a little unfair to get to get bubbles in the mix like that. Okay. Well, this is a spad. I don't know if we've ever done this before. It's a cameo on the rewatchables.

From a guy we should have had for the whole time, but he was recording the answer. Chris Ryan, who is the reason along with myself that this podcast even started, who loves this movie. And I'm bringing him in because we have a new category

for the rewatchables. It's called the Judd Nelson Award. It's going to be given out anytime somebody is in a movie, but the movie they're in is a completely different movie than everyone else in the movie. We don't know what the director told them.

We don't know what script they read, but they're just in their own movie and they're over here as it's happening. Chris Ryan, you love Nick Peretti. this was the last great Jud Nelson moment walk us through your Nick Peretti thoughts

just one of the all-time great Jarhead cops you know this was my first love affair for cops taking it past the limit cops going in too deep cops going over the edge

and he is essentially doing John Bender from the breakfast club if he became a narc and while you're watching this like when I saw this movie as a kid in the theater I then thought that this was APEC

Mountain for undercover cops. Like this was as good as cops got in movies. And when I would watch Serpico, I was like, it's not as good as Judd Nelson and New New Jack City. Like when I would watch other cop movies going forward, I didn't even know because I was a child. So I thought this was the original article was Nick Peretti in New Jack City. And I was like, why is Pacino biting Nelson's style? Look, this movie's 30 years old.

And one of the many reasons it's endured is everyone has the same question. What the fuck is Judd Nelson doing in this movie? No, Bill, when you texted me that, what did I say? I said it almost deserves its own category. And I was like, I'm already there. I haven't written in the sheet. Bill, the best part about this is that even within Nelson's performance in New Jack City, there are moments where his performance is like a Russian nesting doll.

and you think you've got it, and then they open it up. And it's like, my favorite moment is when him and Scotty are drinking after Pookie dies. And all of a sudden, Nick Paredi becomes like a William Faulkner character. He's like, I was just pull white trash. Pull white trash. Pull white trash. Pookie.

I'm like, what? When did you become like an Oxford, Mississippi, like, storyteller guy? It was funny, like, because it was weird for me to like, with Judd Nell's character, because it was like, he was like this weird racist ally because he called him like a high yellow person. He called him a high yellow dude. And he was just like, yeah, you know what I'm dead with the brothers. And he would just like mock this dude.

Is this a black thing? Yeah. And then is this a black thing? And then at the end of the movie, he kills somebody for Scotty. But it was just like this weird thing, bro. Like, why you got to be racist all the time, man? But like, I know you're down for it. But like, what are you doing right now?

Why is this necessary? Why are you sleeping on, why are you just laying on my bed like this? With your boots on. With your boots on, bro. But don't you think they wanted to make him so that when he's redeemed at the end, they were trying to make him intentionally unlikable in the first couple scenes so it could come around. But it was cool. It's not like, yeah, totally.

He's just out of nowhere. It's like, all right, here's our fucked up racist cop who's going to join us. But he's going to come around on the rooftop. We're going to find out his poor way. I have no idea what's happening with this. And he delivers the most important line of the whole movie. Remember we were talking about the drugs isn't a black thing, it's not a white thing, is the death thing, death doesn't give the shit about color. Like, that is the moment, because when I was watching a movie, I'm thinking to myself, I started actually doing research about whether or not they added that character in later.

Because to this point, it almost seems like that's a character that could have been done completely in reshoots. Because it doesn't, his life in no way follows the main story of the movie. Right. And I'm trying to remember the last time that he's actually in the film because Judd Nelson is a pretty well-established actor at this point. And that role could have gone to any kid with their first role out of the actor studio. Well, they tried to get Johnny Depp. He was too expensive.

That's laugh at it. That's crazy that they even tried that. And Jud needed like it was kind of a comeback role for him. He kind of fizzled out a little. role, right? It was supposed to be his like, I can do dudes in their 30s now. Chris, walk me through some Nick Peretti stuff here. Was he married? Did he have a girlfriend? Either divorced or is just getting out of a long-term relationship, probably with his high school sweetheart. Where do you think he lived? In New York.

Did he have a roommate? Was there a roommate in Nick Peretti's apartment? I think he has like a cold water, like, apartment with the toilet in the kitchen. Could he live in Jersey? No, I mean, because he's got the motorcycle, though, right? So, like, he could probably, like, he could commute. But I feel like it's, like, Sunset Park before it got cool. Like, he's just, like, living in an industrial area. Maybe he has, ironically lives in Brooklyn.

No, no, he sincerely lives in Brooklyn. He sincerely lives in Brooklyn. What did his next 15 years look like, Dick Peretti? Following the, uh, Nino goes down. Does he get promoted? Does he get transferred? Does he accidentally shoot somebody? What happens next?

I think he takes early retirement from the force and uses his partial pension to fund an independent hip-hop label in late 90s New York City. So he basically starts raucous records, is what I'm saying. It's like... Right, right.

It's stones throw. So does he have, at this point, the New Jack City is filmed? Does he have a young daughter that in some way he's estranged from? He has to reconcile with. he has to reconcile with. Does he have that going on?

That's a deleted scene that probably they didn't film. And the bigger question I have is, do you think that Nick Peretti is related to Jonah Peretti and Chelsea Peretti? Like, does he actually, is he like the Black Sheep of the family that's like, I'm just not, I didn't start BuzzFeed. I'm not on Brooklyn 9-9. I'm actually an undercover cop. I've got some tough racial opinions.

My favorite part about the Peretti scene is just by far his introduction where, like, the first shot you see is him with the boot. that are kind of like untied and the baggy jeans. It's just literally what John Bender wears at the end of Breakfast Club. Like when you, it's, it is just such an incredible homage. He shoots his gun in this man's house. He should get shot. Bro, like he, like he discharges his weapon.

He's basically Presbyluski. He discharges his weapon in this guy's house, bro. He sits back and shoots at this. I'm like, when I watched it, it was one of the toughest parts of the movie for me to wrap my head around. I was like, this guy is like all over. the place, man. Like, there's disrespectful and there's this downright, like, bro, we can

never work together. Just shoot a gun in my house after you step on my bed, after you call me high yellow. Like, how are we partners after that? How are you still alive? I'm a cop after that. Like, why does that even, I don't even get this at all. He was completely disrespectful in their

first meeting. Chris, does this movie make more sense if he's just John Bender? Like, that's literally his name. And we're just, they do the cross movie thing that you know I love so much when they just pull a character from one move you to another. That would be amazing.

And could we get Emilio Estevez's Andrew character? Like maybe he's, the sequel to New Jack City is Emilio Estevez and Breakfast Club is running an HGH ring. Like he's got an early steroids ring and Ice Tea and John Nelson

have to take it down. I was going to say, you could add Estevez in the beginning as the guy who gets dangled off the bridge and drop just as a kid. You could have worked in every breakfast club character. My next question for you, Chris. if it came out after the movie, like five years later,

that Jud Nelson was going through a hard time personally when they were filming this movie and had a pretty bad substance problem, but now he's good. Would the performance that made more sense or the same sense? The same, I think. The same, yeah. I mean, are you telling me that that is the case?

I have that. He's smiling in certain moments, and you're like, Why are your character smiling? The choices he's making are just out of a different movie? I said to Van, I thought basically he saw Lethal Weapon and he read the script and he's like, I know this movie is about crack and I know Nino Brown

and I know what it's trying to do, but if I play this correctly, maybe they'll spin off me and Ice T into a Lethal Weapon type franchise. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go for like the Martin Riggs kind of crazy guy. Why didn't they? Why didn't we get more iced tea and Judd movies? I had that as a probably answerable question.

They could have spun this off pretty quickly. Easily. They could have took down the next one because they got to go up. Remember, because remember a crocodile D starts, a crocodile D starts off fighting gangs in New York. And then the next movie, he's fighting Brazilian drug lord. Wow. So like, you got to up the States.

It's not too late, man. I still feel like we could get a season of narcos out of these. guys. I think you could too. He just came out, bro. He's got a, I just this is so funny because they never you know, you watch a Judd Nelson movie and then they suggest another one. He did just in another film where he's like keeping his daughter in the basement.

Like that's the movie. I mean, he'll watch it tonight. He's like, guys' daughter locked in the basement and he's Judd Nelson. They were recommended the movie after I watched New Jack City. Say no more. I'm going to watch it this weekend. What piece of memorabilia would you guys from this movie. Van, you go first.

Probably. Wow, what a great question. Probably Nino's chain with the dollar sign on it, even though I had one just like it. You could buy it at any convenience store in Baton Rouge. Your neck going to turn green if you buy it over there,

though, Van. Yeah, but it's worth it. Like, probably that. Probably one of the chains, I'd say. What do you have, Logan? Two-parter, Nino's Roley. and also that Nino's cane

that doubles as a knife. By the way, excuse me, that's the answer. That's the answer, right? Yeah, that's the answer. I had the cane knife thing as well. I've just never, I don't know if I've seen that in a movie other than this movie. I feel like they invented whatever that.

I don't even know what that's called. Rudger Hauer, blind justice. Where Rudger Hauer plays, I think it was like an ex-Vietnam vet who can like, but he's also like a samurai. So he has a walking cane, but then it turns into a sword. Also, Van, Ronald Isley for like five years had that same cane in like seven different videos. When he was Mr. Biggs, he had that cane.

That's right. Chris, what would you like? You know, I think we got to bring the silk shirts back. I feel like, you know, it's been, especially in quarantine, like, we're just wearing a lot of, like, just sort of Patagonia, long-sleeved t-shirts and kind of dressing down. When we get out, we get the vaccines, like we all, maybe the four of us need to commit to one another. That it's billowing silk shirt season. See, the thing with silk shirts, I love silk shirts. I just don't like, like, you usually wear silk shirts in sunny areas, like groovy areas,

and they always sweat through. That's my only thing with it. But that's part of the look. It's just giant sweat stains is part of the head. You don't think Biggie was sweating under there? Oh, I know he was. It was some sweat. He had to ring it out when he was done with it.

Chris, did you in Fantasy ever have a, are you my brother's keeper moment? or no. And who is standing? I'll Sean. I got, I got to be honest, I think Chris is G money. I'm saving it for,

I'm saving for the oral history of the rigor. I think Chris is G money. That's disrespectful. Chris already is. Sean would definitely agree with him. Who won the movie Wesley Snipes? Yes. I think is the clear winner.

Could you make the argument for Chris Rock? I mean, maybe. Maybe, but the Western Snipes. It's a tour de force performance, man. Yeah, he killed it. Chris, since you missed the top, any big picture last thoughts on New Jack City? No, I mean, I assume you guys talked about the soundtrack, right? We didn't give best pets, I don't think, and there's only one answer to this.

Best pet, yeah, we kind of dumped the best pet category, but the Rottweiler would have won. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know. Okay. All right, yeah, yeah.

Chris, did you know there was a new Jack City two script? The new Jack City two script got, got screwed up because of cop killer and because Wesley Snipes made too much money to make movies, and they decided to scrap it. And Wesley Snipes made too much money to pay taxes. So they decided to make that thing. Chris, see, that's why you do money. Wait, like, you think I'm narking?

See, that's why you G money. You only got sick. You all here, like, you all his snitching. Oh, Wesley. Wesley didn't beat that. The IRS, no. already, man. I'm just repeating.

Well, this is an amazing movie. And by the way, if you're listening to this, it's on HBO Max. Yeah. I watch all these streaming apps now. Yeah, all these streaming apps now, they basically, every movie exists on a streaming app now. You can find everything.

There's like there's some of them. I can't remember. There's one that I can't find. But by the way, it's inexcusable. What is it? I can't, like, I can't remember. I was looking for it just the other day. It's going to pop in my head.

I'll tell you later. But it's inexcusable. I got everything. I got all of them. I got them all. I should be able to watch anything I want. I should be able to watch Rock and Jop basketball, 1993. I should be able to watch Rock and Jock softball.

Dan Cortez, only celebrity ever to hit a home run in Rock and Jock history. I should be able to watch all of that. Whatever I want with as much money as I'm paying for this stuff. It should all be on there. All of it. The streets is we doing this. the streets need three strikes on somebody's streaming service. Okay, that's what we need.

Shout out to Brian Hooks. And shout out to E40 for that incredible scene. So there we go. Chris, is there a movie not streaming that you can't believe is in streaming? I, not off the top of my head. I can't take it for me.

Because we, the biggest thing Chris and I did in 2020, along with Andy Greenwald, is we brought back pump up the volume. That's right. We actually resurrecting on YouTube. Yeah. And we did the rewatchables.

And a month later, Amazon Prime put it. it pulled down, pop up the volume. We basically brought that movie back to life. It was my biggest accomplishment in 2020. Well done. Happy Harry, man. I love that movie, man.

All right. Judd Nelson, congratulations on all your good work and whatever the hell you were doing this movie. Chris, Logan, Van, appreciate it. Peace. All right, thanks to Logan. Thanks to Van, and thanks to special guest,

Chris Ryan, who I just should have pulled on. It's scheduling conflicts. But you know what? 100 episodes from now, we'll do it again. Coming next week, by the way, if you want to watch the movie over the next seven days. It's a little movie called Inside Man. Yeah, you may have heard of it. Spike Lee, a great one.

That's a week from now. We'll see you next week.