The Rewatchables - ‘No Way Out’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey have no idea what men of power can do after rewatching the 1987 neo-noir action thriller ‘No Way Out,’ starring Kevin Costner, Gene Hackman, Sean Young, and Will Patton. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight. Which streamer is on the brink of collapse? And which executive is on the hot seat? Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again?

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where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennacy. That's right. You can find, what's it called again? The Watch? Chris Ryan. Talk the Thrones? Talk to Thrones, the Watch.

Philly Special? Yeah, the South Jersey Sixers, baby. Oh, yeah, that's happening. I'm not worried. Every team's moving in New Jersey. My name is Bill Simmons. This is the rewatchables. And there's no way.

Next. A hero. Anderson, he has a background in intelligence. There's two tours with naval intelligence. Get him here. He liked excitement. Take us somewhere. He wanted her.

Their passion upset the balance of power. What's all this top secret business I've been hearing about it with the Pentagon? You know I work for Bryce? Then that makes two of us. This one can do things for me like no other woman I've ever met. Behind the cover-up. Try and understand. The power.

The important thing is to abort an investigation before it ever gets to you. You haven't told me everything. Who's running this thing at the Pentagon? The new boy, Farrell. So we can take the fall in case anything goes wrong. The loyalty. I love you. I promise I'll work everything out.

They mean to kill me, Sam. Because of the truth, there's no way out. Kevin Costner, Gene Hackman, Sean Young, Will Patton, No Way Out. All right, no way out. 1987. Archive Raj wrote this. Knew this was coming early. Movies such as this are very hard to make.

For proof, look at the wreckage of dozens of unsuccessful thrillers every year. No Way Out is a superior example of the genre. No Way Out is what I chase every time I check out the film noir section of Tooby. Yes. Or the thrillers section on Max or when Netflix throws the thrillers at us and you see No Way I was like, yeah, give me more No Way Out. and you just go on down the line and they just don't make them.

There's just not that many of them, CR. There's not, and it's like, man, what an all-time twist movie? It's really up there with primal fear and six cents for me in terms of, it makes the twist makes the movie more rewatchable. 100%.

I almost did a twist pyramid but decided against it. But yeah, it's six cents, no way out, Pramofier and usual suspects are the four that make you go. You're stomping all over my hottest take, but yeah.

Yeah. Well, our friend, remember, just randomly was watching this. Another 2B a week and a half ago. It might have been on 2B. And was like, hey, I'm watching No Way Out. Text me and Wesley, knowing that we'd be excited about this information, which, by the way, I was. I think it was one of the reasons we were rewatchable.

And it's like, whoa, Kostner Young. And then later, he just texted Sean Young, exclamation point. And then at the end, spoiler alert. He's like, whoa, he was a Russian. That was a lot. And I knew it was. coming. It was like an hour after the Sean Young text. But yeah.

And it's one of those when you rewatch this movie over and over again. It's like, he's ordering the Stoli. Should have caught it. Yeah. Should have caught it in 87. He's getting pretty squirly when they go to Nina's apartment. Yeah. And Scott's getting too handsy. And he's like, I might have to glass this guy with a vase.

It makes the movie so much more fun to watch. So much more fun to revisit. And also it's like, it makes Costner seem like a much better actor. Because Costner is not a great movie star Not known for his acting But in this movie He has information that we don't have And he's performing it

And when you revisit you're like, oh, he's giving us little signals He's getting squirmy at the right moment He's like tilting his body He's doing stuff that he doesn't usually do as an actor I love him in this Well, because there is This is just a Hitchcock movie that fucks, right? And there is a basic Hitchcock movie

At the center of this I think you and I were talking about the original version of the movie, the big clock. and that it's just a guy who's like trying to cover his own basis and cover his own ass. Is it a Turner movie classics? It is. It is. It's a noir classic from the 40s. But then you add the extra layer of espionage and a mole inside of the Department of Defense, and this kind of John LaCarray spy hunt story.

And then you add on top of that that like the guy who's falsely accused is actually the guilty one is great. And it works so well in like this two-hour bucket. I think when you watch something like presumed innocent or you watch like some of the prestige series where they're like, I'm trying to like stretch this twist out over eight hours. Yeah. You're like, all right. This is now like beyond belief.

But this, you're like, oh, he is a Russian. I watched it with my daughter, who granted was probably on Snapchat half the time, but had the twist at the end. And it didn't register with her right away. and you could just see, I was kind of looking over at her and I could just see the fucking light bulb go off

and like, he's Yuri? It's like one of that. I was like, yeah, yeah, he's. The opening interrogation also does such a good job of not giving anything away, so much so that you basically forget that it happened. Yes.

So when you go back to the end, you're like, it's true. Oh, right. This is how, and that's like a convention. Because he's got the blood on his shoulder in the beginning. So you should know at the end. end, but so much has happened, you just forget the beginning. You can't even imagine what had gone awry at that point, and you've completely forgotten

about it, but it's, it's a masterfully done twist. I really believe that. Also, probably one of my, I'm sure you'll get to this, but one of my favorite DC movies. I had five things I wanted to get to. The first was the last minute twist piece, which I think is the enduring great thing about this movie. Are there twists gone wrong movies for you? That would have been a fun...

Oh, gosh. Like a twist that doesn't work? Just movies where they tried to... Well, I'll tell you, there's a... We were talking about this the other day. The Apple TV Plus show Sugar. Which we won't give the twist away, but the twist on that show is very stupid.

And sometimes it's like you think you had a great idea and you could feel like everybody in the room who's working on a movie or a TV show is like, we're going to blow people's minds with this. And then you see it and you're like, what? That's an other example of something that if it came one hour, and 45 minutes into a movie, your mind would probably be blown.

But when it comes seven hours into a show, you're like, what am I doing with my life? Yes. Yeah, because there's been some, like, dress to kill has a big twist. But when you watch it, it's just being telegraphed. I totally agree. There's a really terrible movie that I saw in the theater with my friend, Nicaeda, the Mid-90's Color of Night with Bruce Willis. Yeah.

Yes. Gene March. That has a massive, stupid twist in it. And even as it's happening, you're like, like, come on, guys. Really? Really? That's what we're doing. Basic instinct was trying to like flash the twist, but then not.

It ducked the punch at the end, though. Yeah. They just didn't do it. Yeah, there were some movies like identity. Did you guys ever see that? I think that's with John Cusack. Yeah. And it has a big twist at the end that, like, reveals how all these characters are connected to each other that's in the story that, like.

Playing by. Hart did that too, that early Joe Lee movie with the family and it's all these interspers characters and then at the end it's like oh, they're all related. Yeah. So there's like, I don't know. Mascarid with Rob Lowe, which I think is a really solid discount film noir. Right.

Get to be outdoors, get to be in the Cape. There's some sex. Kim controls in it. Sure. She's not afraid to take her clothes off. I'll tell you that much. Okay. Have you revisited the scenes? No, it's another it's in, you know, it's in that film noir stretch.

the DC movie thing this movie starts with a shot of the monument in the White House together and pans back and gives us the wide out shot of the Capitol with all three of us in with like and you're just like okay I'm in

we when we were trying to figure out live rewatchables what the DC movie was and it's weird there's been both a lot of DC movies but not a lot of fun movies to do in front of a live crowd and we talked about no way out and it's like ah this movie came up

37 years ago. We can't do this. But this, to me, is about as DC of a movie as you can get. Yeah. I mean, I think if this also, like, takes advantage of, like, the DMV part of it where it's like they get to go to Chesape. Right. You know, and it's got, like, all the Arlington.

Yeah. You know, like all the farmhouses. And then just like... Joe House is driving across the border to place illegal bets for Gambling's legal in Virginia. Joe House is probably, like, to the table to the left of hacking at that breakfast meeting where you kind of see. all of Washington from the balcony. Yeah, he's looking at the lines for that day.

He's like, Alex Sar, O' for 17. Can only go up from here. The thing is, House's expectations were zero, so he's fine with all the bad stars. We're testing that. Yeah. We're testing it. But yeah, it's just a lot of, like that outdoor brunch wherever the hell he's, or breakfast when he sees Joe Don Baker.

It's just so D.C.ish. Yeah. And there's a good, there's a good chase scene where we get to see. see some DC. I think we're going through Georgetown in one point. Yeah, we're in the mall. It's good. I mean, most DC movies are about the president, right? So you're just like in the White House a lot.

Yeah. Or you're, it's all the president's men and it's about the president, but it's in a newspaper. Very rarely is it like the suburbs. Where like where people live who work in Washington, D.C. And if you good men, they ultimately report to the president, you know. It's true. Chain of command. Sean, would you go?

Officer on deck. So the 70s D.C. Thrillers that we all love. Parallax View, Condor, all presence man, go on and on. Is this a half-brother? Is this a younger brother? Is it a nephew? What is the relation of this movie to those movies?

I heard a quote recently that I really liked, which is that the difference between drama and melodrama. In drama, characters drive the story. In melodrama, story drives the characters. Those movies are dramas. This movie is a melodrama. You know, this is like a lurid thriller. It's not really a movie that's like about anything.

You know, like when you look at like the themes of the movie, it's just a cool, sexy, fun movie. It's about something. Gene Hackman likes to get his horns on. That's what it's really about. Yeah, it's about... She can do things to me that no other woman's ever done. But you wouldn't know that.

Would you, Scott? You don't understand, Scott. I guess it is about desire in no way. But it's not like, those movies are about paranoia and what was going on in the country at the time and how power works. And this movie seems like it's about those things. This movie's in the Cold War zone, though,

which makes it very distinctly 80s. Yeah. But it doesn't seem like... Where the Russians we were afraid of from basically... Yeah, but the funny thing about it, or the thing that's both very much of its time, but it's kind of cool to go back and look at as a little bit of a time capsule,

is how even in this movie, there's an awareness that all of these people are just doing it for money and power. that has nothing to do with ideology or, like, defeating communism. It's just like, yeah, this company that's making a giant sub wants to just take as much taxpayer money as possible. And then there's, like, forces moving against the Secretary of Defense or whatever. Yeah.

I mean, is that what was happening in the plot? Because I've never totally figured it out. Yeah. I think it's actually crucial to the end of the, very end of the movie is the submarine stuff. I do think it's an accurate representation, though, of how the swinging dicks in D.C. make decisions where they're like, This guy wants one thing, so I want the opposite. Yeah, on the inauguration day where they're like, K Street, M Street, yeah, good times you're going to keep going.

It's like, oh, God, it's fucking gross. There's a deleted scene where Fred Thompson is a huge Bullets fan and feels like there's a chance to get Arbita Sabonis from the Blazers. But it didn't really fit in with the plot. So release the house cut. Yeah, it was like for the 88 Olympics, this guy stock is only going to go out. Do you know if House likes this movie? Yeah, everyone in D.C. likes this movie. I think this is a

like D.C. Also, there aren't a lot of there really weren't a lot of political movies from this stretch from like late 80s through mid-90s. We kind of stopped making these. When they made the political stuff,

it was more like the Dave type of movie. Yeah. Right. I think in the line of fire and Pelican Brief is when it comes back. Right. In the line of fire. And then we had the resurgence.

And then we end up in like the 2000s with the contender and movies like that where like the West Wing has now informed this whole new view of what DC is. Totally. That's a great call. It shifts to there. I mean, to go back to your question though and Sean's point about you know, the melodrama versus drama part

I do think that there is like a quintessentially 80s eroticism to this movie that like the 70s movies kind of lacked and Is that what we're calling it? These guys being These people are fucking. That's what this movie is. Drunk on Strange, you know? Yeah. Basically. As much as they are

power and money. And it's kind of amazing to watch, like, Kossner spends most of this movie wearing his Navy whites and sullying that uniform, you know? Like, there's some good imagery in that regard. It was also when you could be horny in Washington without it really getting out and becoming a national scandal yet. Because Gary Hart happens in 87,

and then the shift happens, right? I mean, what month was that when that story broke? It was the same year, yeah, same year. and all of a sudden this kind of underground DC horniness like him just setting up his mistress across across state lines in Virginia is just like so 80s the other day I was going to save this for later but like you don't hear a lot about mistresses anymore

like mistresses like this guy's got a gum mars like yeah what's up with that you know because I feel like everybody's like I'm Polly you know like I'm just in like an open relationship or something or we're seeing other people. But back in the day, Bryce had his wife with him at the party and Susan in the other part of the

room. It was a great time. It was a great time for Hollywood. Because you could just have these scenes where it's like, oh yeah, of course he has a mistress. And there's his dutiful way. You can never do that anymore. Is the take that we need to bring back mistresses in civilized society? I think at least for storytelling.

I think that like the pressure and the like you only come to me on Saturday night. When are you going to stay for Sunday morning, you know, like that kind of, I'd immediately go into Goodfellow's voice. Yeah. My number four thing on what's age the best, setting up a mistress in her own Virginia townhouse. Sierra and Caroline. That's age the best? Yeah.

Okay. All right. That's a good movie premise. Yeah, it is. But it's not something that would happen now. No, I don't think so. Yeah. Maybe it would.

Maybe they're just better. It's hard. I might have a gumar over at L.A. It's hard. It's like, what? I mean, look, you guys don't know what I'm up to. At L. They lie.

Is that where you power water? Yeah. J.W. Marion. Yeah. We sit you up there for a year. You have the tunnel to escapele so you can go watch Brani? Yeah.

Is the tunnel? Stop by for a quickie and then go watch Bronte go O for four. I have a place in the giant building with all the graffiti on it. I got a little townhouse in there. That's where I put my Gumars. The revival of the Gumars is incredible. I can't believe this happened here. You guys saved America.

The Gumars are bad. Young Costner Rips off Untouchables No Way Out in Bull Durham in 10 months And this comes out right after Untouchables And I went through You knew I was going to go through the Premier Magazine

Because Premier Magazine launches August 1987 with Untouchables And there's a piece about Koster And it's like, yeah, I've also got this movie Coming up No Way Out. It's really good And Bull Durham's out Spring the next year This is kind of like

sandwich in between and forgotten about. A plus Lister, but when Untouchables comes out, it's like, who's that guy? Who's Louis? Oh, he was in Fandango and he was in American Flyers. Like, he wasn't really anybody.

Yeah. Really unusual. I don't even know if this could happen anymore where somebody could go from nobody to headlining three movies in a row in 10 months and then just becoming one of the eight biggest stars we had. It's kind of happening to Austin Butler. It's kind of happening to him.

He was Elvis. He was nothing. Nothing. Right. And then he was Elvis. But Elvis came out. He was in what's on a time in Hollywood for, you know, 10 minutes. Elvis came out two and a half years ago.

Yeah. But that led directly to bike riders, dune two. Masters of the Air. And Masters of the Air. And in a very short period of time, he was in like a Spielberg TV show, the biggest sci-fi franchise and a cool motorcycle movie. Yeah. So it can, it kind of happens.

And now is probably going to be in heat, too. Right. But you're right that, I mean, we talk, we, we, I've talked about this. He talked a lot of costume, too. Yeah, and obviously he's had the horizon, so he's been on the trail and everything. But his 86 through 93 is insane. It's insane. There's no, I don't know if you can make a comparison to anybody in movie history.

He also, the only person I would put with him is Russell Crow, where you can, somebody who could be the lead in an action movie, be the lead in a sports movie, but also being a movie like proof of life for this movie. Yeah. where it's like, oh, yeah, this girl's gonna risk everything to do this dude. I think, I think Costner wins in terms of romance and female audience, like 10 out of 10 times. All women that I know love Kevin Costner. Do you think that they came to the event? We've talked about it before. It stopped the party.

Everybody was ready to go home with him that day. Yeah. Yeah. You too. Absolutely. Yeah. He looked good. He's still handsome guy.

Great guy. He just figured out some sort of, he's not really on that. He wasn't ever really in the Hank's corner. Cruz was over here. Like, you go through all the guys from that era, and he just kind of had his own lane. Like, I don't know who else could have been in Bull Durham in this movie.

Yeah, we did a Hall of Fame about him on Big Picture, and I was trying to figure out, like, who were the historical comps? It's, like, hard to land on somebody. It's like, a little bit of Henry Fonda, a little bit of Bert Lancaster, a little bit of... Jimmy Stewart or Spencer Tracy.

Robert Redford. He's kind of all of these different... Yeah, Robert Redford. Like, he kind of takes pieces from all those people. I wish he had made more of these. I think he made complicated films later, but this and a perfect world are two of the most interesting things he's done

because he's fucking with a nascent and then really established identity as this all-American hero guy. Well, but he has this like, this is his fatal flaw, this fucking outdoors putting on a cowboy hat thing. He just wanted to do that over. He's not a fatal flaw this year with Horizon.

If Horizon part three was in fact no way out, part two, would you crowd fund it? I just, that would be great. I just think he maybe do two less of those giant sprawling movies and like three more of did the Cruz playbook of like, now maybe back then though there wasn't like the Jason born type part that probably he would have done if it was 10 years later, right? I think that you have to look at him through the prism of how directors see him versus how he sees himself. when he's directing a movie or when one of like his guys, like Kevin Reynolds is directing the movie.

Yeah. He's like very stoic and like an American hero. But if Oliver Stone or Tony Scott or Roger Donaldson on this movie or Brian De Palma, they all see him as like more wily, funnier. Ron Shelton more than anybody. Yeah. Like he's always sexier.

He's always funnier. He's always a little weirder in those movies because he has a very odd charm. but when he's directing the movie, he's like, I am the American statue. Like, I represent. Who is also Jesus. Yeah. I got to say, I don't like American statue, Kevin Coston.

It's not as fun. I think he has a really, really special and unique ability to click with actresses. Totally. And God only knows, like, what goes into the clicking. But he's one of those actors that you always feel like, they're definitely, they started fucking in day four of the filming. Even though you have no idea.

You're just like, wow. And if you think, Think about the actress that he's done movies with and all the other stuff they've done, they're always at their best with him. So I don't know what it is about him. I will say that the relationship he has with Sean Young in this movie, it feels like you're watching a real couple. Totally.

When she sits next to him and just starts mimicking him, I'm like, this is fucking, she probably improvised that on the spot. Is it time to talk about Sean Young? Sure. We've talked a lot about Costa on the pod. Costa's probably moving up the rankings for most of watch. I think he's gotten four this year. Robin Hood.

If you include Big Chill. And for the love of the game. Do we include Big Chill? Well, I mean, he did come up in that discussion. But we haven't even done Bull Durham or Tink Up yet. Right. So we got to. But you did untouchables.

A couple left. We're doing no way out. Did it fill the dreams, right? Did Robin Hood Prince of Thieves? The J.H. You said that? Uh-huh. Yeah, that's a lot.

You know what we haven't done yet? You know what we haven't done yet? Let's go. American Flyers. I can see a. I could see you during 13 days. Same director.

Donaldson. Same director. 13 days is good. I like it. Yeah, I like that movie. I have some thoughts on Kostner's accent. And if there was another flaw with Kostner,

it was... In 13 days or in this? In 13 days. Yeah. Accents were not his friend, as we talked about on the Rob... His American accent as a Russian agent is excellent in No Way Out.

It's pretty good. Yeah. Sean... Perfect World and Tin Cup are definitely rewatchables. Definitely. 10 cups I mean that's been on the list Field of Dreams

was one of the ones we're saving although maybe we're just going to burn through all these now Bold Durham yeah Sean Young

I have a hottest take that I'll say for her for later her 80s look like this she's in stripes her and PJ Souls with Bill Murray and Harold Ramis

just love those two together it's like do these people I'm like 11 I'm like do these people exist in real life. When do I get to meet them? She was 21 in Stripes. Blade Runner. Young

Doctors in Love, only available on YouTube. I watched 20 minutes, and it was as bad as I remembered. Her and Michael McKeon. Dune. Wall Street. She plays the Zendaya role in Dune. Yeah. Wall Street. We talked about that as a Wall Street pod. No, Michael Douglas's wife and

chopped out of a lot of that movie. Right, right. A problem on the set, as the kids say. No way out. The wheels kind of come off after that. Kiss before dying. She gets fired from Dick Tracy. It's a Warren Beatty thing that would say there's two sides.

A little dicey. She got bounced from Batman in 89, which we talked about on the Batman rewatchables because she got hurt falling off a horse, and that really started the tough stretch. She feuded with Harvey Weinstein, which in retrospect, history on her side, back in the time

that I got a feud with and he was a fucking asshole tour which add her to that list and then really wanted to get Catwoman when they were doing

talking about Michelle Pfeiffer lobbied for it wore a homemade suit for Tim Burton legendary legendary Hollywood story he was like that's weird

they didn't get the part then wore that suit on Joan Rivers everyone was like this woman's batch shit crazy because at the same time James Woods not I wouldn't say a stable presence in Hollywood the last 40 years

he's suing her for harassment for some sort of something they have on a movie set and then that's it and she ends up in Ace Ventura like two years later but for the most part kind of missed the window it's kind of made like three or four B movies or Red Box movies a year ever since

I'll do the hot take now I feel like she was a one-on-one I don't know who she reminds me of. There's nobody like her in a movie. She's an amazing screen presence. She's like a Fem Patel. Yeah, she's like doing Barbara Sandwick. You know, she's like, I'm really sexy

and I'm the smartest person in the room and I'm in control. And a little like Daffy, you know? That's what I was going to say is in this she has like a tractor beam where you're like, whoa. Like, this is real Throw Your Life Away Hall of Fame. Yeah.

And this character is just like the kind of person. Talked about the Throw Your Lifeway Hall of Fame. It's a good one. It starts with Edie Falco and Copeland. That's been number one with a bullet for you since 1987. Dana Wheeler Nicholson. Number two. In Fletch.

Oh, my God. That's so good. Yeah, she locks eyes on you and it's like, that's it. Here's my attempt. It's a lot of like morning after what happened last night, Sean Young said something to a biker at the bar. Right. You wound up having to fight him.

Right, and you got knocked out? Yeah. Yeah, she, uh... She's a great actor. She seems a little loopy, but she also got sucked into the machine of like... She got into a fight with Harvey Weinstein. What do you think that was over? Yeah, right.

She had... There's some bad luck stuff in there. She got treated the way a lot of actors just get treated. She ended up on celebrity rehab in the 2000s, and it got pretty dark. But there's a moment there where, you know, Sharon Stone was had a lot of the same stuff, but was able to harness it of just that the tractor beam where you just like, they come into a movie and you're just like what's going on who's that? What's going on with her?

And you feel like with somebody like that, the character in the movie or TV show is going to throw their lives away within five seconds, which is what happens. She's outstanding in this movie. You get why these two guys are going nuts over her. I don't know how many other people could have played the part. That's the thing.

It's like you don't know until it's... I do think Sharon Stone could have done it. Yeah, but you don't know until you're doing it where it's like, oh, I could see Hackman and Kossner just losing their minds over this person. Yeah. She has that thing where there's a certain type of woman who's like constantly giving her man shit, but they like it. And that's what the character is. So it's a little hard to look at, like, there's a famous casting what if for that part that, you know, I won't step on. But that I totally, I can't totally see that actress doing the thing that she's doing in this, where she's really kind of giving everybody the business all the time.

Yeah, I mean, in some ways, maybe we see this sometimes when we do these movie stretches where sometimes it's just a five to seven year run and then you get replaced by somebody else. But I felt like that was more there. I was always, even when she was making bad movies in the early 90s, I always watched the movie. Like I saw a kiss before dying whenever it showed up on cable.

I was like, oh, maybe this is the one. It just never happened. She's great in Ace Ventura. Like, it's a ridiculous character and it hasn't aged well or whatever, but, like, it's incredibly memorable. Well, somebody else who's memorable. Horny hackman. Horny hacks. Yeah.

Unforgettable. Ninety-four years young. Yeah. Still going. This one can do things for me like no one else I've ever met. It's the only thing worth living for. Get your horns on, Gene. The firm, no way out, night moves, absolute power and heartbreakers.

we get horny hackman. Yeah. And then you see him in movies like Cusers and he's like the least sexual person alive. So the question is... But because you've introduced the paradigm of horny Hackman, now I have to go back and watch like,

Cusers and be like, is there a horn in this hackman? You can see it a little bit when Barbara Hershey kind of makes a move on him in the cornfield. And then just stops being a bitch from that point out of the movie. It's like, gosh,

you got a little taste of horny hackman. She's back. Yeah. Was he horny? acting underneath all along or just a really good actor? Even in like Superman, you're like this Lex Luthor nailed down Valerie Perrine. You know what I mean? Like he he's got the juice.

Like this weird balding, average looking guy who just happens to be like the second or the best actor ever. He looks like a security guard in like Long Island. Yeah. And he's like basically a sour puss in every movie he's ever made. And yet all men are like, you know what actor? I love is Gene Hackman. And in many movies, he's like, I fucked the hottest woman in this movie. And all the other actors in the world are just like, I just want to be Gene Hackman.

Pretty crazy. I was researching Horny Hackman, and there was a Cloris Leachman story. Really? Co-stars in Young Frankenstein. It was about, hold on, I got to find this now. This is some breaking rewatchable's protocol and Googling something during it. Huge fan of Leachman in Last Picture Show. She's in your throw-your-life way, all of fame.

Right? That's true. The headline is. Chloris Leachman's new book Details One Night Stand with Gene Hackman Hell yeah, yeah. Good for you guys. Hope they have fun. Cloris, my autobiography.

She recalls bumping into Gene Hackman when both were shooting movies in San Francisco in 1970s and dining with him at their hotel. Oh, how nice. Hold your horses. As we moved into the main course, it was as if a cosmic wind enveloped us. some giant space magnet

was pulling us together we didn't finish the meal we went upstairs flew into bed and made love it was epic and the next morning Gene went back to his film and I went back to mine

I haven't seen Gene since that night but I remember well the feisty lad he was is it now the time to announce that the reason why you're not doing the Bill Simmons podcast is because you're doing the audio book for Cloris

I'm doing the audio book for Feisty Ladd the horny Jean Hackman story Sean does that what to do The cosmic wind You think a cosmic wind That's what she wrote You think

Bill did not make that up A cosmic wind As we moved into the main course It was as if a cosmic wind Enveloped us Like lobster thornower They didn't finish the meal It's just like Jean had a cornish game hen

Yeah Beef medallions Everywhere Strewn across the table Leachman's prime rib Untouched Jesus A one-nighter.

Anyway. So I think the answer is maybe underneath the horns where it was there. I mean, God bless him. He's still alive, by the way. Probably still banging it out. He's like in his mid-90s.

Just watching Jags games, right? Well, he also... He's probably on, like, Raya. I texted you guys this, but like... Did you say he's probably on Raya? I think he's married. He's been captured by a paparazzi. Every time there's an image of him,

like, going to the gas station or whatever in New Mexico, people are like, leave him alone. Let him live out his 90s in peace. but he's got a lady with him at all times. But he... Love that guy. His career is amazing.

Amazing just stopped working. Yes, that's what I was going to say. Out. Yeah. 20 movies in the 70s, 20 movies in the 80s, made like five movies in the 2000s. And he was like, you know what, fuck this. And he just bailed. I was looking at his IMDB.

And I don't think anyone has a wider range of... Wow, that movie was amazing. Oh, I like that movie. What the fuck was that movie? I didn't even know. What is that title? He's a 2B all-star as well. He's got a ton of movies on 2B.

He, in this year, 1987, I think he made five movies. And he cranked out, you said it was 20 a year, or 20 a decade. I think in the 80s he might have made more than that. Just in 80, he does Cusers and Power in 86. I know your big power guy, Sean. Lumet. Superman 4. No way out.

out in 87. And then he's in split decisions, Bat 21, full moon in a blue water, and another woman, and Mississippi Burning in 1980. It makes five movies. I don't know what four of those movies are.

Another woman's a Woody Allen movie, but also the Bat 21. I mean, he played like a colonel or a sergeant or the Secretary of Defense. I mean, he played a military guy in like 35 movies. I'm ashamed to admit

I zoom through split decisions. It's a boxing movie. Craig Sheffer. Haven't seen this. Craig Sheffer. Craig Sheffer. And Craig Sheffer. And Jennifer Beals.

Jeff Fahey gets involved with the mob. He's a boxer. He still has a couple of later period ones that we haven't done that I'm really, I'm scouting. Like, I mean, I think behind enemy lines and heist are the two that I like. Well, what about the Andrew Davis one? The package. That one's good. Good movie.

I like the package. That's a really good movie. It's a really good movie. Yeah. Yeah, when we did the Hoosiers rewatchables, which is now up on YouTube three years late, because we found the video. Part of the research was about

how he just, like, showed up on the set on Hoosiers and like, all right, let's bang this out. I didn't think it was going to be a good movie. He was just like, put the cute cards over there. The replacements is like the best version of that where Gene's just clearly like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

And they're like, how about $450,000? Right, fine. But I remember when I wrote it, I want to do that movie in the Royal Archibals at some point. When I wrote about that, one of the jokes I had for page two was about how he was yelling at the Q-card guy, you got to write that bigger.

I can't see it from where I am. Because he's just like one scene and out. You can just see it. He's like, what the fuck is this movie? I mean, you and Andy did Royal Tenenbaum's, and the story is kind of Legion at this point that I was right at the end of his career, and Wes Anderson really wanted him,

but that he was, they did not get along. You know, and then he was really ornery. You know who he loved Eastwood? Yeah, one taken out. It's like, we'll be out by 4.30. We might be able to play nine. Gene's like, that's fine. I got a Gumar over at the Intercontinental.

I'll get you home in time for Jags Saints. You can watch Breeze and Bernal duel. You know what he's really funny in is Get Shorty. He's really, really good in Get Shorty. He's just an amazing actor that I don't know. He's another. like 101. I don't know who Hackman is now in 2024. I just don't feel like

the person exists. They don't make him. Yeah, he's not. We have to wait for a bunch of younger guys to get older or something. He was also the same age for 22 years. You watch him in French Connection. He seems a tiny bit younger. But by the time we get to the late 70s, he's just the same

age all the way through to the replacement. It's just does he have a mustache or not? Yeah. I watched class action recently. I'd never seen that before. It's him and Mary Elizabeth Master Antonio. And they're both lawyers, he's her father. Oh, yeah. I was like, this is a two and a half star movie, but you know what a two and a half star movie

is like the best movie of all time. You know, I was just like, I'm just locked in for an hour and 43 minutes. It's how I feel about behind enemy lines. It's like the dumbest movie I've ever seen. It rules. Yeah. All right. So this movie was based on the 1946 novel.

The Big Clock by Kenneth Fearing was filmed as the Big Clock, 1948. Police Python 357 in 1976, not aware of what that was. That was the other remake. Police Python, eh? Yeah. Written by Robert Carlin, directed by Roger Donaldson. New Zealand guy or Australian guy? One of those two.

Born in Australia and moved to New Zealand. You know what he directed. Well, it's a pretty interesting IMDB. I'll tell you this much. No Way Out. Cocktail the next year. The Getaway. Species.

A movie that I would do on the rewatchables tomorrow, but I don't think anyone else likes it. I like species. Four like... You like species. For like fun. Fun kind of horny movies. He was the master of the lurid thriller. Yeah.

Yeah. And then ends up doing 13 days later. But maybe he found a soulmate with Horny Hackman. Yeah, he was like sub-adrian line. He was more interested in like the story than he was the sex. But he always had sex in his movies. And Dante's Peak, he did too, which was a big movie, the volcano movie. It's funny to go from no way out to cocktail.

It's like, Roger, what's next? Got this thing with Cruz sitting Jamaica. It would have great, though, to know you. in 87 and no way out in cocktails directed by the same guy and you're like treating him like Kubrick. You're like, what could Donaldson do next? Treating him? Was I wrong? These full-metal jacket guys can get out of here.

But that's what's so crazy about this movie and all movies like this when we talk about these 80s movies. It's like this movie was shot by John Alcott, who was Stanley Kubrick Cinematographer who shot all of the Kubrick classics in the 60s and 70s. They were just less movies back then. I feel like there were less jobs, less movies, and you're more likely to get some awesome cinematographer. They're just like banging them out. But this movie looks good. You know, that's the thing.

It's like it looks great. That opening credit sequence you just described where it's like a helicopter shot all across D.C. That's beautiful shit, man. That makes you excited about the movie. $15 million budget made $35.5 million and then became just a fucking staple. Constant HBO show.

A staple on cable. Roger Ebert, four stars. We've done... Four. However, this is like... This must be... One, two, three, four stars. The 25th or 30th movie we've done this year,

and Raj has been in a real two, two and a half. Yeah. We've been speculating how much did Raj... Spent a half star short a couple times? Yeah. Like a lot of like second-guessing, Roger. And then here he's like, this is as good as it gets.

I watched the Siskel and Ebert episode where this movie was featured. What did Siskel think? So Raj, it's four movies in a row that he liked. And he... By the way, I like that. I was like, let's do an easy one. week, I don't want to overload Sean

because we decided today's ago. It's like, something does that do a lot of research on. He's like, I watched Siskel and Ebert. I listened to the director's commentary. I did. Well, I really like this movie. Yeah. But so Ebert is like, we haven't had an episode like this in months

where we've just got four great movies, Gene. Let me tell you about no way out. And he starts describing it. Then they cut to Gene and Gene's like, well, Roger, this movie stinks. No. Totally trash. Oh my God. He's like, didn't buy the characters,

performances are bad. He's just super down on it. Jesus. It's tough. Fucking Siskel. Raj says it's a terrifying jigsaw puzzle. He found himself

really caring about the characters. Yeah. He said, the plot gives us a great deal of info. The more we know, the less we understand. Horny, Raj. Then he said,

that's the test of a good thriller. When you stop thinking about the mechanics of the plot and start caring about the people. That's your point. Siskel's like, fuck that. I'm,

I'm when the Ebert and Siskel when they battled You were Ebert I feel like probably more I saw the Siskel side on stuff sometimes though I would say the seesaw I was probably tilted a little toward rash Siskel was unafraid to go against the grain

Like he didn't mind being quote unquote wrong But Ebert was right more than he's Siskel was in my opinion I love that Cisco bought the Saturday Night Fever suit because he liked the movie so much And he was like I'm getting this thing It was like 800 but dollars

Now it's probably like a hundred thousand. That's like CR with all of E.D. Falco's cigarette butts from Copland. He's just got a whole drawer for them. Just building an Edie Falco doll out of Newport's. Today's the most rewatchable scene is brought to by Paramount Plus. A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount Plus. That means a mountain of heart pounding action. Blockbusters. Top Gun Maverick might have seen it.

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Discover new movies every week on Paramount Plus. Okay, rewatchable scenes. I love the big opening DC presidential party scene. I love party scenes in general, as you guys know. It's a great way to introduce us to all the characters in a natural way. Tom and Susan's flirting. Will Patton, who we haven't mentioned yet as Scott is just dialing.

He's like, guys, buckle the fuck up. I'm going to be dialing it up. Put your seat outside, everybody. It's honestly electrifying when someone who is not famous at all is in a movie with two hugely famous stars and is like, everybody move away. Yeah. Like, this is my time. I'm going to stand so close to you and yell in your face about power.

Yeah, we could do this now. It's the top size more for me. The action is the juice award. The price is the juice for Scott. Best toe to toe, non-star. with the stars. He's just like, I'm going to chew up

all the scenery guys. I know you guys are famous. I kind of wonder how they decided, you know, how much of it was Will Patton, how much of it was

in the script in Donaldson or whatever. He's always walking so close to Tom. Oh, he's such a personal space and Vader. He's like, I'm coming with you.

Every time he's trying to make any headway in the investigation, he's like, don't worry about that. You go over here. It's like, the cumulative experience

of watching that performance by the end, you're just like, oh my God, this guy is spinning. me out. It really helps mount the tension. It's like Josh McDaniels next to Belichick for years and years. Just in his

personal space. Exactly same thing. Call in plays. Definitely. Yeah. We have Tom ordering the Stolley straight up. Little tip. Yeah. A little tiny tip. We have Sean Young smoking a 10-inch cigarette. What brand was that CR?

Virginia Slam or something? God damn that was a long cigarette. What do you think the filmmakers were trying to tell us with that sequence? I think they were, I don't think they were trying to. I don't think they were trying. anything. It was an allusion to the ancient mariner coming home. He's like, can you

like the same? Don't do that. We get them going to the limo and she just says to the driver, show us the monument. Costor's in the back seat going, oh yeah, this is going to be a great ride. He showed her the monument for sure. Hey, Bill, shut the divider window.

I have some thoughts on the sex scene that we'll get to in a later category. Next one, it's short, but I love dropping by Amman's house. I love that Amman's in this movie. Yeah. It better be good. We need your bed.

Nina, Tom, Tom, Nina. There's a limousine downstairs, okay? There's booze in my pantry. There's the refrigerator full of food. Susan. Why don't you go to your own place? Because it's just one of those things, okay? Be a friend, all right?

If anybody calls, then just tell them that I died or that I'm going, I'm asleep, all right? Just the heat check of showing up at your friend's house and being like, I've got a limit outside. Take this fur coat and the limo outside. Now I'm naked in your hallway. Take my fur coat. Yeah, if there was any ambiguity, we're definitely fucking in your bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't worry, I'll change the sheets later. She doesn't even say that. What a great friend. Next one I have is the flirting while getting ready for the second party. Right into the second party. Oh, so you're skipping Manila. Which one? Manila Costner.

When he does this, he saves the guy on the guy on the shirt? I had some thoughts on in a different category. When they're listening to a wild thing and he's, tears the phone off the wall. Yeah, what's going on in that scene? That's fucking awesome. You like that one? That's just for CR.

We're just in a different movie for 10 minutes. And it's one month later, full metal jacket comes out. And there's like the same sequence where it's like army guys go overseas and they go to a strip club in Asia. And I don't know, I guess that's something that America wanted to see at that time. Must have come up at like a WGA meeting. We know what we need? Can we get more Filipino strip clubs in this movie? The funniest thing is it's exactly the same movie

If you just take that 10 minutes out Literally nothing changes It doesn't advance the story in any way We learn nothing Does have later on Pays off with the like Why did he get the bag stolen seemingly on purpose thing Mm-hmm

Oh you think that's why? No, because they said to him He was like when you tried to do the pass-off And there was nothing in the bag Like we were disappointed in you Oh Yeah Yeah

Man I have to snout of the Maybe you were a little distracted by some of the other sites of Manila, but I was watching the SpyCraft. That's why this is a fun rewatch. After you've seen the movie once, you got to rewatch. I'm so stupid. The murder.

That's why that scene is in the movie. That makes sense now. Yeah. Because he's like, yeah, no, let the kid take the bag. I felt like they were trying to tell us that, but yeah, I should have put that together. The murder I have for the next one. You've been out of town. I pay the rent.

I'm sure. of no importance to you whom you sleep with, but it's of considerable importance to me. Why worry, there's plenty left. Get out of me, you bastards. Get out! I'm calling the police.

Get out! I want to the hoard one. I pay the wrench. Is he... Is he sufficiently horny in this movie? No, it's a shame because I... Well, we have one where they're lying in bed, and he's kind of sizing her up like a porterhouse.

you get you get it you get the feeling yeah like an like an untouched porterhouse on florist leechman's plate like joe house at lugers the cosmic wind the cosmic wind start blowing in that scene with Sean Young in the bed it's a great 80s murder scene

it's a what stage the best then what stage is the worst where it's like the strikes her slow motion slow mo and then the special effects of going backwards

like she's falling 40 feet but it's really eight and then somehow breaks her neck going through the coffee table it immediately does it's the most 80s part of the movie but I'm kind of here for it. It's very diploma like

yeah and his reaction is really funny he's like that was not ideal you know like he's not like he's upset but not really but his first impulse shows up at Scott's house hey I think I killed Susan But he's like, I just wanted to chat and talk it out before I call the cops.

Yeah. I think I killed her. Scott, man. Immediately has the game plan. Let's say you accidentally kill your gumar. We've talked about this. What was your first call? CR is at my safe house at the JW married and NOAA live?

Is it Bill? C.R. I'm absolutely happy to be your first call. It's probably Andy, though. I think actually Andy would be like You could get me Go to a pay phone No you I think you could get me out of the country

You know what I mean? Yeah I feel like I could too Because Bill can pull some strings Yeah Dude what do you think your reaction would be Right to prison Just call the police Yeah Sean would be like I'm reporting you now

You should turn yourself in Do the right thing And also give me the watch I don't know what's going to happen To the watch But you got to turn yourself in you know Next thing Tom finds out Susan is dead,

which is just a great Costner performance. I gotta say he's reading the thing and he does kind of a and then all of a sudden, can I go to the bathroom? Because in the first time around, you're like, oh, he's just really upset because he loved Susan. But the second time around, you're like, Yuri, the walls are closing in on Yuri.

So the reason he's having the panic attack is because now all of a sudden there's this, he's implicated. Can I ask you one quick question? I don't know, it's not quite an unanswerable question, but when Bryce goes in to see her, after Farrell leaves, and then Farrell stands in the shadows

outside the apartment. Is there any chance, Bryce gets what's happening there? Like, is there any chance? Oh, definitely, because he says later, like, I was angry. But he doesn't, he never thinks it's Farrell. No, he never recognizes him at all.

He's like, I couldn't see it was dark, and he's like, did he see you? And he's like, I don't know, basically. Okay. It's actually Costner's, it's a nitpick, but it's a mistake by Tom to just kind of stick. him down.

Like, what's the upside of that? I think it's just like, that's the shit you learn on the streets of Manila, man. Yeah. It's just wolf pack stuff. Some fucking wolf pack slash Gumar stuff.

Anyway, that's funny. That seems good. I like when they go to tell Amon that Susan's dead. That seems incredible. And he's just like locking in with that face like,

please don't fucking say anything in this guy. Like, you and I are homies. Yeah. But then they have that part near the end where he's grabbing his got the vase and he's just kind of like

ready to hit the guy over the head and just I guess kill him in the Mon's apartment. I don't know whether he has to kill him and then boogie out, yeah. We get the Washington DC car chase, running chase, Koster dude and basically all of his own stunts. Pretty good.

Much later we get Kostner running from the two henchmen and in the Bryce's office at the end a stairwell fight off a showdown. We get Scott going, You have no idea what men with power can do. No idea what men of power can do. Fuck, wait.

What are you sick, fuck. Scott, that's been a loyal and valuable friend. I let that friendship proud of my judgment. Just truly amazing. This scene is amazing. No, Scott, don't do it. Just help me out of this. You can have anything you want.

If you go against me on this, it'll be your word against mine, and I'll win. David! Stop! Yeah, crossed with the... Neal! My son! Yeah, that whole scene's awesome. Then we get the twist ending.

I told you when I called it, I could not get out of the Pentagon. All right. But at least you'll admit your relationship with the woman was poorly ended. I did what I was told. You wanted me to be your lover? I was her loving. I don't see any point going on with this. Yeah, well, either do I.

We thought we never never seen. I also thought. What you'd be You'd be not much It's been very long for me It's been very long for me What do you got from us We're watchable

I love you have no idea what men of power can do I think that seems awesome That seems should be bad and it's the opposite And Hackman is so good in it Where he's like Scott You've been a great friend Yeah You know

David But then But then Bryce immediately Has the new cover story of like what Scott has been. And he's convincing Tom of here's why we have to do it and then the cutaway back to Will Patton

and he picks up the gun when it's in the foreground. He thinks he's going to shoot them. Like that whole scene is so awesome. I like that part too. I think that's my favorite. I think the last 20 minutes of this movie is my most rewatchful.

The Pentagon spy hunt is and the last, and leading up to the reveal is just my favorite. Today's the most rewatchable scene was brought to by Paramount Plus. Blockbusters. fan favorites everything find something new to watch every week a mountain of movies awaits on paramount plus godfather all of them are on there right yeah paramount classics i don't know if you've seen that movie but it's really good raiders yeah they got a lot of good when are we refathering

refo plan start at five ninety nine a month start streaming right now uh oh semi new category what's the most 1887 thing about this movie. I'll give you the options. Polaroids as a major plot device. Credit card record results taking days to come back. No surveillance video whatsoever on the streets as opposed to presumed innocent where everything is being filmed at all time

in a TV show. Checking the phone records, taking hours on end. The printers or the early pre-OJD DNA stuff. We got this thing with blood. Yeah.

You can kind of check out the semen. The credit cards. Can I add just Russian agents? You could. And also does also age the best for me, but all of Kevin Costner's outfits. Yeah. But I would probably say the credit cards because it's like, I remember they would do the, what's the magnet that they would run over it, you know?

Did you think about dressing in the whites for the podcast or no? You'd look good. Should try it. New category before we get to What's Age the Best? The Sean Young Award for Best Gratuitous Quicky Nudes scene goes to Sean Young for just take it off her. I wish it was Hackman. Yeah.

I'm not positive, but it was scripted because Costner kind of seems stunned by it and unclear of even how to interact. I mean, she's told that story. There's that great bit of research where she's like, I am very comfortable taking my clothes off on film, but Kevin Costner was not comfortable with me taking my clothes off on film. Seems like she uses it against him in that. and really unnerves him.

What's age the best? Movies that start with an intense scene and then give you the six months earlier graphic, I'm in. We don't have enough of those. See, I feel like it's overused now. Really? Yeah, I do.

What's an example? TV has killed it. A lot of TV. I was thinking about movies. Yeah, movies don't do it as much, but TV shows now always are like. White Lotus. We're in the present day.

White Lotus always does that. Yeah. And now it's like it's such a convention that's relied on. This one is good, though, because I think, because of what I was saying before, where you almost forget that that moment happens when you're watching the movie.

You forget that the interrogation is going down until we finally get to this Coda. What do you have for what stage is the best? The twist in the twist, that it was the landlord, is the guy who's running him. Like when the door opens and the guy who has the unfinished painting of the New England farm,

winds up being like the spy master, awesome callback. I love the slow development. developing picture as just like the countdown clock for the whole movie. I thought that was really cool. And yeah, I think Kossner and Young's chemistry is like off the charts. Do you think the Sixers should do that with Embed next season? Just like a slow counting photograph that's becoming clear of a center that's actually in shape.

An MRI is decaying D. God damn it. It's like fifth straight podcast. Yeah, I'm kind of having a really good time and chatting. 51 away from Damasio. I'm really more concerned about Paul George's late 30s for you. We can keep moving. Yeah, let's get moving.

What do you have for what stage is the best? Anything? Yeah, the idea of the executive branch and Congress being in a dick measuring contest than fucking up everybody's lives. I feel like that is holding strong. So you're saying that's still happening? Yeah, that is holding strong in our culture. Oh, Fred Dalton Thompson.

ever playing anybody attached to the military industrial complex this hunt for October or whatever. Yeah. Brad Pitt is an uncredited party guest. That's a freeze frame that. Yeah. I wrote down Great Evil 80s Washington DC score. Mm-hmm. With the synthesizers and the do-d-d-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.

Maurice Char. I'm just going to give you Amman's three most famous relationships. Bowie. One important one, yeah. She dated Warren Beatty in 1977 during the disco era, and you can just Google pictures of them coming in or out of discos, both at their fucking peaks. Yeah, he's a goat.

Morin's a goat. She dated and married Spencer Haywood and was married to him during the whole 1980s. I didn't know that. I want to hire a mafia person and kill Paul Westhead because I'm so coked out. I don't know where I am. He was married to Iman at that point. Married to Amman. They were doing it up.

And then ends up marrying David Bowie eventually, who she calls the love of her life. They were together for decades. Handsome couple. Morewood stage the best. Paying extra to rent a boat you're not allowed to rent. I was going to have... I know CR is like, how about if I gave you $500?

Yeah. I love a Chesapeake weekend fuckfest. You don't see a lot of those anymore, but it's great. Let's bring it back, along with Guamars. Should take the Gumar to Newport Beach. Just like cash out some guy at the boat rental place. Yeah. I did have one more, which is...

He's Costner working with guys and then being like, I'm not going to forget about that guy and then putting that guy in future movies because that guy who runs him in the boat is in the crew in Tin Cup. He's worse in Will Patton like a hundred times. And Will Patton is in all of his westerns.

Reynolds, he goes back to, yeah, a bunch of them. So Jason Bernard is on this as he's... Major Donovan. The guy that keeps breaking in in the end. Yes, love him. It's the judge in. What movie is he the judge in? He's one of those guys,

but like a graduation, or level above that. He's the judge and liar, liar. Hmm. Well, my favorite show, ever The White Shadow, he is, Ken Reeves,

he's the principal and the pilot and then gets replaced by his brother for the series. Who's his brother? Ed Bernard. Oh, no. Yeah. What happened?

I guess Jason didn't realize the show was gonna get picked up. Booked another deal. Yeah. Didn't happen. He's in war games. He's in a bunch of stuff. What's age the best?

You have to have more moral courage. It's like that. Good written son. I love whenever Scott is like, I need you to see things clearly and calm down. So, David? We're all very tired. Scott and Tom went to college together.

Yeah. And that's how their buddies. Yeah. College. Yeah. College buddies. The old college buddies subplot. Yeah.

I have some ideas about that. Yeah. Oh. Sean Young's quote on nude scenes in this movie. I find I'm always helping the guys. I ended up helping Kevin Costner. I ended up helping Kevin Kostner. Kevin helped me by wanting me so much

for the world. So if he gets a little nervous during a love scene, that's okay. I'll help him. And then last but not least. It's a great scene partner right there. Generous, generous actor. Yeah. I have this as a Woods Age, the best and the worst. The two henchmen that chase him a couple times.

Henschman number one, we might have to cut this out as a social video. He's running. He's like Steven Seagal. He's just running. It's like he's never run before. He's like watching you take your kid to the playground when they're three and they're like, it's a playground. That's what he's like

sprinting after Costa. Two major action chains. How do you not fucking have a real sprinter? I think also the problem is that they're introduced as essentially Delta Force assassins. But they look like guys who are like at a barbecue before a

it's like the other two guys they hired called in sick or they had to fire them. But it's like Marshall Bell who's in total recall and stuff. He's like a great character actor. But he doesn't look like he overthrew a Latin American government. No. Great shot.

Go to a word. Most cinematic shot. Would you go opening scene? I have Cosner running down the checkerboard floor hallway of the Pentagon being chased. It's really cool shot. John Alckart, man. Direct focus is pretty cool when it goes from Hackman to Costner when he's waiting outside at night.

That's awesome. I like a lot of the party photography, too, where it's like cutting between we see her, we see Bryce, we see Tom and then they're like triangulating and then when they leave together but there's a cutaway to Hackman and he's like looking and he can't find her and you're like panic as setting. Right, it's good.

Dennethy's Benny Honour where it seems to location, the opening DC. I also like the Chesapeake Bay. Fugfest. Kid Cuddy Pursuit a Happiness Award Best Needle Drap. There's an unbelievable Rod Stewart cover at the first party. They play Do You Think Up Sexy? It's like the

cheesiest 80s guy possible. if you've got a song that's got the name of the movie and the song that plays in the movie, it's got to be no way out by Paul. It's such a bad song. Big Cahuna Burger Award, best use of food and drinks. Spilling the coffee in the pants is pretty good.

Definitely. They actually, I plot devices. Or ordering the Stoley Street. Oh yeah, that's good too. Butch's girlfriend award, weak link of the film. I have one, but do you have one for this? I honestly, it's the assassins for me. Okay.

Because, like, Scott Pritchard would have fucking hitters. Yeah. He wouldn't be like, ah, I found these two guys at a lows, you know,

like it's... Yeah, that should have been like Howie Long and Lawrence Taylor. Just chasing down and Koster. Gastino.

Gastonov would be great. I don't think anybody in the cast was a weakling. I have Scott shooting the wheelchair guy as my weak link of the movie.

I just don't think he's doing that. You're just going to shoot him in a gym. There's a gunshot. We're in the Pentagon. Like, what's going on there? Well, I did look this up. There is a gym in the Pentagon.

Nobody's hearing the gunshot. It's a fucking Pentagon. Do you think Dr. Sam Houselman was a problem? Do you think he was just, this is where I like to get my shots up? People forget about his triple double. Yeah. He was nice with it. There weren't cameras in the gymnasium?

I don't know. That seemed never sat back from me. I think there were cameras anywhere. I mean, Scott is mentally ill. I get it. You know, he's also orchestrating a vast conspiracy to protect the Secretary of Defense. Can I give you a better version of a murder or the wheelchair guy? Okay.

Just be like, yeah, I'll wheel, yeah. And then just shove down the stairway. Like, do it in a way that makes it seem like that's old as time. He's just trying to create the- Yuri is in the building thing because once he finds out it's Tom, he's like now I need- But then he keeps the gun on him? Like, I don't know. You have no idea what men of power can do, Bill.

Have your henchmen shoot him. What's age the worst? oh, can I just say that the Mallory Rubin Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene? It probably would not have been released commercially if it did. It would have been an adult film. The Livos Scene? Yeah.

It's a steamy scene, but it's weirdly not that gratuitous. Like, it could have gone farther. I have it in what stage is the worst. I think it's a weird sex scene. You don't like the sex scene? The music's super corny. The No Way Out. I don't know what's going on.

with the logistics of it, where it's, like, at one point, is he, she's facing the front of the car, but it seems like they're having sex. And it's like, that's definitely not what would happen in a limo. And then it's like, was there oral sex here? I think we should do it. I think we should diagram it. I wish we had a graphic. We need Dr. Jack. I asked Mallory. We need the Telstraiter. I have some shocking Mallory Rubin News because I actually invited her to be the fourth. It was going to be the rarely seen four-person pod for the rewatchables. I don't think I've ever done a pod with you and Chris and now.

And just live. Just live. We did do the live one. That's right. But I really wanted her take on the limo and the shocking revelation. Never saw the movie. That's bizarre. The world professor's biggest Costner fan and it's set in D.C.

And somehow this is a whole. But she could tell you the fucking ninth cousin of the Dragon Show. That's crazy too because there's a scene in this movie when he, when Sean, when, when he, when he introduces the jewelry box that Hackman's character gives her and Hock, Coster's walking around and he's in jeans but they're unbuttoned. Yeah, yeah. And he's like showing you

like the whole trail. The highlight of heaven. Not a lot of wax. What is that choice? But also for Mal. We have to force her to watch it. Yeah. She would love that. Yeah. I think she would have a lot of thoughts. phrase it differently, but yeah. Oh my God. Russian spies probably age the worst just because

we don't have the quote-unquote Russian spies seem in the same way. What do you tell? But not in the way we had them in 80s movies where it's like, oh, he might be, the spy is in the building. Now it's just like, everybody's a spy and there's so many different ways to be a spy.

You need to be on a different version of Twitter than I am. Because, like, they're putting up numbers. I'm saying there's more of them and more ways to spy. Oh, okay. Back then, it's like, we have to put this person in America and they have to pretend they're American for 20 years. And they indoctrinated. Now it's like they just fucking hack our phones.

This is related to me. picking nets too. All right. Would you guys be bummed out if I was a Russian spy? Bumbed out? Yeah, like if it turned out. See, I would think it would clear up a lot of questions I've had. I'd be like, I fucking knew it.

I knew something was off. I told him to buy an Atwater Village and he didn't. I told him. That Hail Mary pizza is great. I do not do that. I agree. What a great shout out for Hail Mary. I fucking love Hail Mary.

Hell Mary's great. Atwater Village is great. Sierra's fucking, you can be the king of Atwater Village. I know where my home is. Yeah, it's like Petersburg. What stage the worst? What a waste of Joe Don Baker? Why is he in this movie?

It's Fred Dalton Thompson. Which guy? You keep saying Joe Don Baker, but it's Fred Dalton Thompson. No, the other guy. It's Fred Dalton Thompson. There's Fred Dalton Thompson and there's another one. No, the other guy's Howard Duff. Oh, that's who I'm picking up.

I screwed it up. I got Howard Duff from Joe Don't Baker. A common mistake. Yeah. Yeah. Howard Duff. I completely did. You guys knew what I meant.

Yeah, we did. But I thought you thought you kept seeing Joe Don Baker? Yeah. He's like a scene and a half. Senator Duval, right? Senator Duval, yeah. He's in Kramer versus Kramer. He's amazing in Kramer versus Kramer.

He's John Shaughness. He's the lawyer. Isn't he in Cape Fear, too? Joe Don Baker. No, but Howard... No, Howard... No, Howard Duff is not. You sure?

Howard Duff's a big TV actor from the 50s and 60s. Sure Howard Duff's not in Cape Fair? I don't think so. Great, can you look this up? I think he's in it. I think he's one of the lawyers. This new Craig has to, like, do research. Howard Duff died in 1990.

Yeah, he's not in it. Cape Fear was released in 1991. Joe John Baker is in Cape Fear, though. I think you're just... I'm just kidding. This is a great guy's confused. This is a great bit. Because I love when you're like, that guy is not a that guy.

He's like, this guy's name. You know, he's like, no, that's... I'm proving that guy is Redhorn. I'm screwing up multiple guys. Sean Young, this is what's age to wear. Sean Young said in interviews that Roger Donald said made her lift her shirt and show him the goods during an audition. Not great.

No, no. And then I just wrote down, I still don't know what happened with the whole Tom goes overseas, save someone on a boat, gets drunk in a Philippines bar, and chases a street kid party, even though I liked watching it. It's basically an amazing 10-minute deleted scene that doesn't need to be in the movie. Well, it's important. You could have just done the cutaway to the newspaper article of Bryce reading that he was a hero, but he needed a hero to come in to play that part.

I get it. So it shows us. It's a lot of work. It is. It's a lot of work. Because the other plan B could have just been, hey, this guy's great. You should hire him. Okay. It's true.

As a kind of addendum to that, I do think that the phantom sub subplot is weirdly super important for something that's kind of complicated and only mentioned briefly earlier in the movie. So if I think if I have this right, it's a big submarine that America is building that they think is going to be top of the line. Awesome. But it's super expensive. but Hackman knows that if it gets put in the water, it's going to be easily detectable. Yeah.

And so the Russians want the submarine to get built because they'll find it, they'll see it. So it's Tom's job to somehow get the submarine in the mix somehow. And that's what he's doing,

basically, is he's like... So it's 10 minutes of work for two, ultimately not that important... That the Russians want... Fred Dalton Thompson and... The thing with movies like this,

is all we need to do is be like, he's a Russian spy. It's like, oh, whoa, that's really all you need. But at the very end, when he sells out Bryce to Marshall to Fred Dalton Thompson, I think it's because he's trying to take down

to Howard Duff. To Joe Duff Baker? There's a more of a complexity, though, to the character, because over time, he comes to like his time in America. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, like, he's kind of slow playing his duties as a spy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's like, hey, I met this Sean Young lady, and she's pretty cool and we're hanging out. And I don't want to. And speaking of which, another thing that's aged the worst is Kevin Costner listing Russian authors. Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned. Let's take a break.

And then we got anoint Will Patton for the overacting word. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's, you can get great deals all day with McValue. Jumpstart your day with the under $3 menu featuring a sausage McMuffin. for just a dollar 50 or grab the perfect lunch with the McDouble for just 250. Honestly, nothing pairs

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This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater. This is a place where everything feels cinematic. Like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore.

Ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids invites you to find a rhythm all your own. Season after season in Pure Michigan. Find your season at experienceGR.com. All right, the Ruffalo Hannah Rubeneck Partridge Overacting Award. They knew and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady.

I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it all you got! Give it all you got! I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart. Fuck you. I don't know how we leave Will Patton out of this going forward.

I almost feel like he has to be at it. Great point. The Scott Pritchard overacting is great point. The other move is just going back right to just calling him. at the Saul Ruben-Ek Award and dumping everybody else. It's kind of a what's age the worst. The, like, hysterical, queer guy

who's, like, the villain. Like, in the 80s, there were so many versions of that. Yeah. And he's really going for it. And yet, it's a very entertaining character and it makes the movie very fun, you know? I am not going to let you interfere

with this investigation. Well, this all led to his bizarre performance and remember the Titans, which I enjoyed, which we broke down, a million podcasts ago. And then... Bizarre.

Iconic? Well, bizarre and iconic. We're just overnight. He's just like, all right, Denzo, what a game. I'm in. Never been mad to see him

in a movie. Yeah. And then he had the discount version of him on Oz, Terry Kinney. Uh-huh. It was like,

Will Patton must have passed on the part and Terry Kinney stepped in, but they were always like, I felt like they were running to this corner for a while. Terry Kinton, we're always circling the same stuff.

Tough beat for Terry Kinney. Terry Kinney is like one of the great... Steppenwolf guy. Yeah. He did, they're both in good stuff. I felt like there was only room for one of them, though. Was there a highlander situation?

But for bald guys with moustaches in America? Yeah, there was only so who could be like the number four part in a movie, but no higher. Yeah. Winner gets Oz. Was there a better title for this movie? Probably, but I don't know. Men of Power. I like that.

that's solid. Nice. Can you dig it a word? Most memorable quote, you have no idea what men with power can do. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford,

how to take a word? I got one that's lukewarm, which is 45 minutes in is a perfect place for one of the main characters to die. You're just used to Susan. You're like, Susan, Susan's going to be in this,

the whole movie. Wonder what they're going to, what's the tension? What's it going to be? And then, you know, I'd never seen her trailer for this. So it's surprising the first time you watch it when she gets

killed. I noticed this reading the reviews and watching the Siskel and Ebert too, that every review is like, yeah, and then Gene Hackman kills her, like, in the review. And I'm like, what? Why would you... I noticed that, too. Start of the second act, but it's late. It's like, that should

happen in the first 20 minutes, and instead it's 45 minutes. When it's past the first 20 minutes of the movie, I don't think we should have... It's in the log line. It's like the death of a mistress. I knew. But does it indicate that Hackman is responsible? No. Did it make the movie better or worse for you that you knew she was going to die?

It just made you wonder every scene she was in is like, is this the scene? Oh, interesting. Huh. I would say, though, my... The first time I saw it, I didn't know it. I didn't know any of that.

That wasn't a hottest thing, by the way. Mildly hotter take is, if Tom just goes through the front door, Susan's, she saves Susan's life. When she's like, you can go, he's like, please go through the back door. He's like, next time I leave it's through the front door. If I'm leaving it. But if he goes out the front door,

Bryce scurries away or there's a confrontation, but she doesn't get killed. I feel like you've really set the bar high on the hottest take. What's yours? What last week with... Like, you just want to throw things in the microwave. I'm here, like, I'm actually working on a stove. I thought it was the hottest take award.

Okay, go ahead. I thought we were doing the, uh, true lies created Fortnite. I thought those were hottest takes. My house take was that this is the superior... This is the movie twist of the 80s and 90s. And that those 90s twist movies, oh, this movie a tremendous debt. I like it. And...

It's a semi-hot take. Yeah. I mean, because... You're saying better than six cents. I think so, yeah. Yeah. Because it's the same thing. Each one of those twist movies, usual suspects, is the same thing.

It's like, this guy who you thought was this guy, is actually this guy. And that totally reframes the way that you understand the movie when you revisit it. Yes. And it's a central premise that screenwriters sit in rooms and be like, how can I get to this point in my movie? And this is, it's not the first movie to have ever done it, but it's done so brilliantly. And it's a movie that usually ends with, like, you know, a man walking alone or something down a beach. And instead, it ends and you're like, wait, what? And I would have loved to have had a conversation walking out of the movie theater the first time seeing this and, like, going to dinner afterwards.

Because you would have spent two hours, like, picking over what it just happened. Yeah. That's a good call. My hottest take, I miss Russian spies in movies like this. I just miss the old-school Russian spy concept of a movie character. And it made me think, as a... I've gotten older, these movie characters that were just awesome tropes, premises that you lose because time passes and history changes.

Like, we talked about in the Raiders pod. Nazis. Nazis were the best movie villains ever. But at some point, now it's 2024. You just, you just lose it. No, even the Indiana Jones movies, I think, struggle to figure out, like, who the bad guy is without Nazis. I just miss. They went back to Nazis.

I miss understandable villains. I don't know if we have that anymore because now it's, like, the amorphous. terrorist and terrorists can be anybody. This is just simple. It's like, we're battling the Russians. They're trying to get information and power and whatever from us. You guys saw Red Dawn. You don't want that to happen.

They might take over someday, but it was all simple and stupid. And now it's just so complicated. Like, really, anybody can be a villain. And I just kind of missed this era of like, oh, he was a villain. The fucking Yuri. Now he has our sub-secrets.

I mean, what's the last movie franchise that was, or even, just big tent pole movie that was reliant on, like, international intrigue and a villain. I mean, obviously, the Bond movies do that, but they never make it about real world events. It's like all those born movies where it's all like, they're trying to get a counterintelligence, super. Yeah, yeah. There's some bad Russians in the board movies. But yeah.

It's all, all the villains now, they're all up to like these super confusing things. And back in the 80s, it was just like, that guy's a Russian. That's probably bad. It's really usually more like corporate overlord slash like, um, gun runner salesman, you know, like that, like that kind of thing now, you don't have the countries of the origin. Yeah, in the 80s, it was just Russians and cartels. Now it's like, this casino is trying to buy the Boston Celtics.

We have to stop them. They're going to build a stadium and ruin the team. There's a reason why that happened, though. It's because Hollywood got addicted to getting money from overseas. These movies didn't used to play overseas. Yeah, true. But did, uh, is somebody, is, like, a casino really trying to buy the Celtics? I mean, I think it's one of the possibilities, yeah.

Oh, man. Which, is it Circus, circus, circus? Which one? It's Treasure Island. It's the first-class gumar casino. Yeah. Casting what ifs? The Borgata Celtics.

Michelle Pfeiffer turned down, Susan Atwell. I think I agree with the choice. She was, she was killing it in the 80s. But just like, we're heading toward fabulous Baker Boys. Just run it back in your mind. Bill Simmons, how old are you at this time? You're, what, in your late teens, early 20s? And a high school.

Michelle Pfeiffer shows up. As Susan Atwell. You're in a movie theater. I just think she's... What is your reaction? It's just not realistic that she's a Virginia mistress. I don't know. She's almost...

I just wouldn't have bought it. For some reason, I bought Sean Young. I think that's one of the best things about Sean Young is that she was super hot, but you feel like she could have been, like, bartending at a sports bar. Michelle Fafar always was levitating above that.

She was, she was Tony Montana's mistress. But that's like she's a 20-year-old co-core in Scarface, basically. That's like her job. Preview of the Scarface Pod at some point, yeah.

But it's, that was really, it wouldn't have been realistic seven years later. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. What,

do you have like a Cokehor as you throw your life with? Could they go under the Cokeor pyramid? Yeah. Oh, God. Allegedly, not sure if this is true, but Mel Gibson and Patrick Swayze turned down Tom Farrell. This felt very flimsy to me. Your skepticism about casting rumors is really interesting because, like, you'll take some just at face value.

But then, like, you'll be like, I'll say them and you'll be like, ah, we're sure about that? Well, from the 80s. This one, Michelle Pfeiffer definitely did. We've confirmation. The other one, it's just felt like they had Costa pretty early. So what about the Bryce casting stuff? You think Joe Don Baker was up for? Yeah, I just feel like they're throwing, like.

Like, Paul Newman was up for David. Paul Newman was never doing this movie. Mel Gibson, I buy. He's too young, though. They must have been around the same. Gregory Peck, too old. Can we just talk it out about the guys who are also up for Scott Pritchard? What was that?

I don't know that list. Gary Oldman, Stephen Lang, Alec Baldwin, Michael Bean and James Spader. Bean Hive? Yeah. Spader's too young. All of them would have been great. Spader maybe three years to young, but that's a good one.

Gary Oldman, I know he's a little young, but that would have been electric. I actually really liked Will Patton as... He's great. Me too. I was just wanted to talk it out. He makes the movie incredibly memorable. Best that guy award, Fred Thompson and eligible, even though I kept calling him Joe Don Baker. Maybe he should be eligible. But it's the guy who runs the boat Reynolds and ends up in Team Cup. I still don't know that guy's name is.

Dionne Waiters. Bill the pervert limo driver. That's for Dion. I had Mrs. David Bryce, who's all her job is to just seem pleasant next to David Bryce. He's trying to figure out where Sean Young is. She's like, oh, I love this fan.

They're great. Tom's drunk buddy in the Philippines, Deion ladders it up in the bar. That's a good call. Fred Thompson, I'll be damned. Well, he will be too, if you believe the Old Testament. and then then the winner for me,

Amon. I don't know why she's in the movie. She's in three scenes, yeah. Smoking hot. She works at a mall. Yeah. She's trying to passport from South Africa. What would happen if you just wandering through the mall

and I'mon is working in the air? Like what was going? There's no reason for her in the movie. She works at a mall, but she can afford like a Washington, DC. It's just like we just need a striking actress for two scenes. I do think George Zunza in the gym yeah, is he's going for.

it like his acting style is completely changed and then i felt like he's like shaking and quivering he's good recasting couch director city no thanks i like everything about what they did here i don't really have any notes well you would have gotten joe don baker in the mix but otherwise joe don probably was right he was one b for howard duff or for fred dalton thompson if fred if fred you're confusing it with tony ron promo or Chris Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary.

Now Mike, this is a great play call from Susan Atwell. She calls him ancient Mariner to stimulate his intellect, but then she offers Falacio to get his temperature rising. Golly. He's putting up the window, Jim.

I think he was the Russian, Jim. They're calling him Yuri. Half-ass internet research. I was going to do a Bill Raftery as the director's commentary because I don't know if you heard any of the Bill Raftery doing the Olympic basketball but he kind of never seen an NBA game before and Colonsworth for Raftery and DB

Rafters like Tyrese Halliburton you know he can make those threes I'm like oh Kenny Bill Raftery we just watch them for three rounds You still get onions you know you still get this It was fine it just unclear who they were announced in the games for I see you Susan

And that's you You know, Yuri's come a long way. We're all very proud of you. Mr. Yuri. Mr. Yuri, you're doing the work behind the scenes. Doris Burke calls the movie is also a really good category. Have faster research. The limo stuff was apparently somewhat inferrised with the window up.

Was the driver improvised? Was the driver like, hey. Somehow they had to pay him the line. Is the rule in a stretched limo in the 80s that you get to watch whatever you want until they ask for the for the barrier to be put up i think so god damn i think that might still be the rule is it yeah so is there no rearview mirror if you put the visor up i'm working on a a waymo drama i don't know if you guys have ridden a waymo yet no i haven't my son's i got on the waiting list yeah there's no driver yeah i know you're writing a drama about a way well i just feel

like there's no driver and it just feels like the next crate crime movie yeah where there's a Crime is ridiculous manslaughter. It's called Waybro. When a truck hits you. Something terrible happens. Or it's called Wayne Groh. Wayne Grow. Waymo. Costner rolled over the hood of a moving car during one of the chase sequences and

got yelled at by everybody. And then Susan's houses on the corner of Queen and Union Streets in Alexandria, Virginia. There was not a lot of half-ass internet research about this movie. I was surprised. Yeah, it's all like, did you know that Gene Hackman and Kevin Costner worked together again? Apex Mountain. Coster, no.

Sean Young, it's Probably that Stripes Blade Runner stretch where it felt like she was going to be one of the big actresses, which led to her getting Dune. I don't think it's this. I think Blade Runner is what she's most remembered for. Can I ask you, Apex Mountain for movie mistresses? Is it this or Debbie Mazur? Oh, wow. Movie mistresses?

Yeah. Or Gumar. Well, I just mean. Gosh. Movie mistresses? Yeah. Oh, man. Why didn't you, you should text me this?

I would have done a deep dive. And there's got to be more memorable mistresses. Is there a mistresses channel on Tooby? That's good idea. Should there be? Can't they just give us the car keys for Tooby? Half of their categories. I'm like, what are you doing, Tooby?

What is this category? You want better categories on Tooby? They have 80 categories, and 40 of them are like incoherent. Yeah. And then there's like, film noir. It's like, oh, I know what that is. Fortunately, there's a listicle on Vogue.com called 25 movie mistresses with looks we love. from Holly Go Lightly to Mrs. Robinson.

Check that out. Oh, Mrs. Robinson's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She is a good one. No, but it's more... Debbie Mazar is probably...

Probably the most influential one for a movie. She is very influential. Yeah. Also... Maybe next episode we'll come back or down the road. The Mistress Pyramid, like, Soprano has, like, four of them.

I mean, Sharon's... Stone in... In casino? Who's the woman at the wedding? Is James Woods count? Does he get to be on the mistress pyramid? Who's the woman at the wedding that Sonny Corleone takes down? Yeah. Yeah, that's

Andy Garcia's mom. Yeah. That's a good one. And she's like a big character in the book. Yeah, that's a good one. There's a very vivid description of their sex scene in the novel, yeah. How about in Godfather, too? Tom Hagan's mistress, who we never know who it is, but Corleone says

and you could take your wife and your mystery and live happily ever after. Tom Hagen has a side piece. He had a little side action. That was the time. Can't hold it against them, you know? Hackman, no. DC film noir.

I think so. I think so, too. I'm trying to think if there's a 40s movie set in D.C. I don't really think so. There must be one. Is there like a Hitchcock? Like that, no? How about the 80s?

Russian sub-scene. I mean, no. It's Hunt for October. George Zunza murders? Would you go this or basic instinct? Ah! Can you just say Zunza again? Zunza?

That was good. George Zunza? Yeah. I mean, his name is spelled D-Z-U-N-D-Z-A. Yeah. Great name. Good Deer Hunter performance by him. I like him.

He's a good actor. Yeah, he's a good one. Great Law and Order cop. He was an initial that. guy who then graduated Joey Pantsdown became George's. Yeah, he's like an above the full Law and Order star. No question. Yeah. He did.

The Omni Shoreham Hotel. We've really been giving out some, some hotel love on the rewatchables. Will Pattonitz remember the Titans. Yeah. That's his Apex Mountain. Yeah. Damn straight. For the Craig generation, they know him as the DC.

We will blitz all night. Isn't he a, what's his? It would be incredible if you could have Will Patton be your coach NCAA 25. I would run through a wall. They won't get another yard. Shane Goess has the funniest remember the Titans

riff that he does about how it's like the setup of that movie and it's like deep racism in the south and blah blah blah and then it's like, wait, those guys are four and oh I love this coach.

Polaroids. Probably not. Apex 1 for Polaroids. Yeah, for Polaroids in a movie. Memento. Momenta. Great call. And then Bellboys dressed like pirates being used as witnesses in federal espionage case.

Yeah, incredible. I love how he's still in uniform when they're taking them around. Yeah. All right. So this next category, usually there's more suspense, but Cruiser, Hanks, it's just a fucking rap. This is the cruziest part. There's two fucking chase scenes.

Yeah. I would argue Cruz saw this movie and was like, God damn, man. I just love watching Kevin Costner sprint from now on. I just want to sprint more of my movies. Cruz throwing himself into the windshield of a car. Cruise running through the mall. Cruise in the tidy white. Cruise is a strip club in Manila.

You're a wild thing. Cruz ripping a phone booth out of a wall for no reason. Cruz in the whites. He wore the whites five years later in a movie. This actually, I think, might have been better with Cruz from an unintentional comedy standpoint. Might have been. Cruise talking Russian at the end.

Although it's one of my favorite Costner's, but I think it would have been. Cruise making the Tom Cruise face when he gets the document. that Susan Atwell's dead and he does the... Yeah. I totally forgot of what's age the worst. What? Is this...

Is this the worst haircuts in a sexy movie of all time? It was the age. Every... Scott is insane. No, the woman. Scott, Sean Young's haircut is fucking horrible. Yeah. Where she's got like...

How about the cocktail party? Every haircut's off. Yeah. She has like mom hair, but she's like 24. Kevin Koster's hair is fucking weird. It's like cut awkwardly and not brushed. It's wet. We didn't know what we were doing with hair in the ladies.

Very weird. I have some tough pictures. Racehorse, rock band, wrestler or fantasy team name. Listen, the horny hackmans is sitting there for anybody. It's good. Met of power is also. Could be the title of the film.

Could be the title of a horse. Let's take one more break. We do Picking Hits. The playoffs are here. And you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the play. play off dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner.

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it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. Pickinets. I mentioned already, I'm not sure Susan breaks her neck and dies instantly from the 8-foot fall into a coffee table.

I feel like there's a lot of writhing. around. Maybe there should have been a second hits her with a photograph or something. Or Scott comes and finishes his job. Susan snaps the polar right of Tom and his arms aren't doing this during that scene and then in the polar right there. I don't know why they didn't catch

that. The Yuri framing plan that they kind of... It kind of comes out of nowhere. Cooked up on the fly right as his dead Gumar is barely dead at that point. Scott's like, hey, Yuri. And then he's just like fucking Belichick trying to

how to beat the 2013 Rams? But how awesome must it have been to be like in the defense department? Anything that goes wrong in your personal life, you can be like, oh, it's Yuri. Like, we can just blame it on like a Russian mole. We need a Yuri here at the ringer, yeah. Why didn't Amman just rat out Tom in the rim?

Because my guess is there's a scene or two missing where Sean Young's character is telling Amman how great. She's loyal to it. Tom is fucking awesome. She's loyal to her friend. Yeah. I agree. My biggest one is why doesn't the,

why don't the Russians extract Tom? Like, why is... Well, they have the scene where he calls from the pay phone and he says, I can't get out. Yeah. And that's who he's calling. Why don't they just get him out? What does that mean?

Well, I think it's his fault. So I think we have to wrap it up. No, no, no. That's, I'm sorry. It was, I think that it's... His job is not to get close to Susan. His job is to get close to Bryce. But he's compromised the minute Susan dies.

Right. The minute Susan dies. his cover is ready. And in fact, not only that, but the assistant of the Secretary of Defense is orchestrating a plan to basically get him exposed.

Also, like, FYI, maybe some condoms in 87, so they can't find your fluids on the Gumar. Just some bad spying by Yuri. What a comeback for Gumar? I'm surprised you didn't bring that up. Yeah.

Yeah, that was next on my list. What's up with Tom eating bugs off the windshield when they're driving the Chesapeake Bay? I always thought that was like a berry. Either way, it's gross. Yeah, it's weird. Is that a Russian thing?

I didn't get it. Here's my biggest nitpick. Would local news really be reporting on a spy hiding in the Pentagon? Like, this is getting out. This is just like, oh, I wonder what's going on in the news. There's a spy in the Pentagon. Like, that's fucking crazy. They would never...

But it is an area where a bunch of reporters are just standing around waiting for something to trickle out anyway. So I think that's why. Didn't pest the snap. the sniff test with me, CR. Okay. Any more nipicks? I mean, just...

David Bryce's wife, just never saying a word and just be like, see you later, Dave. Take the Chrysler. She loved those cocktail parties, though. Great host. The word in the street was great host. She did her job. She had a nice life. I would have liked just seen what his townhouse was like in downtown D.C.

Yeah, me too. A little of a domestic life. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all blackcast, or untouchable. I think we would all agree this would be a really good prestige TV show. And after seeing what's happened with Presumed Innocent, where it's like, well, they can't do that. I know who killed them at the end. Don't spoil the most recent episode of Presumed Innocent.

I'm not spoiling anything. I'm just saying the movie happened, and we know what happens if you've seen the movie. He and I were kicking around our theories when you walked in. Of what's going to happen in the TV show? In presumed innocent, yeah. But we won't say it. I was going to say sequel, Yuri.

Living in America. Soviet Union falls in 91. He has to decide what he's going to do. It becomes Arvita Simonus' agent. Moves to Portland. And he's like, your son's good. I want to personally train with him. What if it's a prequel and it's Susan, colon, the Gumar years,

and it's just tracking her era? If you fucking kill him over a Gumar joke? I was just thinking the Gumar years would be an amazing Netflix series. Oh my God. Someone at Netflix literally just jotted that down. The Gumar years. And ordered 30 episodes.

Or Scotty and Tommy, the college years. That probably goes to possibly unanswerable questions. Yeah. Which is... What was happening between them? Scotty and Tom. Scott is obviously... Doing this now?

Bryce. I'm just saying... Are we sure Bryce and Scott? Well, Price is obviously very aware of Scott's infatuation with him and uses it. But he needs him. He leverages that. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treos, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, Byron Mayo, Harley Mays, evil laughing, Ramon Raymond, Philip Baker Hall, or Nell? Or Hudson from aliens.

Or Hudson from aliens. I forgot to add him. Oh, man, Susan fell over the railing. What the fuck? That's just great, man. A mana paca potato. Well, I've missed that on all the Paxton. There's been so much Paxton going on recently. Just want to ask her who gets it.

Joe Don Baker. Joe Don't know what I did. Thank you, guys. I think probably screenplay. Yeah, good job, Bill. I don't think anyone is winning. an Oscar for this movie. No, it's not really an Oscar movie. I don't have any unanswerables. We did everything.

I did. What do you have? What does Susan and Tom talk about? Is it just sex constantly? What do you think that they chat about? That one's running out after about a month and a half. Bestseller shelf at Walden Books? Like, what are they? What's on their agenda talking? I think it's how much more time do you need before we have sex again? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's wrong with that? Nothing. I'm just saying.

You know, why is, why do we have to answer that question, Chris? That's kind of a broader, like, what do all married men talk about with their gumars? Yeah. That's right. Maybe that's a podcast series. That you can find on married men in their goal. What was the Gumar show? The Gumar Years.

The Gumar Years. Yeah, that's part of the Gumar Years. Okay. No, I think they're probably like hanging out and he's like, and she's like, you fall on Cal Ripkin's street? Yeah. It's getting pretty interesting. But that's where his Russian party is. He's like,200 straight games. He's like,

God, the Ripkin. Then he's like, has to catch himself. He's like, Russian weightlifting team very good at this Olympics. She's like, do you think the Colts will ever move?

He's like, no. I don't know about you, but Sam Bowie is a really smart pick. That'd be funny of you, AI dialogue for movies like this.

Let's do it right now. I really like this, Purvis Allison. I hope the Wizards have a chance to pick them. Were these on the bullets then? Yeah. Best double feature choice.

With revenge. Oh. I had this with American Flyers first, followed by No Way Out, so you get the full before and after Costner is a star. Well, the big clock would be a good one, even though it's not as good or as twisty as this movie. I also thought presumed innocent the movie is a very good example of this kind of movie that we don't get, which is like very interesting mystery.

movie that is very sexy with some big characters with big actors and big stars you know about a world of power and that stuff was like really humming from like 85 through 2000 you could say no way out is the remake would just be

Democrats trying to get Biden out taping this on a Thursday Wednesday no what's age the worst that joke and there's no way out unless Nancy Pelosi really steps it up I can't argue The Indian Reds Oatne Award

What happened the next day Yuri eventually becomes the coach of the 1992 Lithuanian team Yuri runs the Lithuania Republic What's it with Lithuania? I don't know Because after this

The Soviet Union's splitting in 89 But his whole point is he's getting in his whip And he's just he's in America, right? All right, so Yuri is now waiting for Subonis. What if Yuri moves to Iowa and opens a cornfield where a, then he winds up putting a baseball field. Ray Kinsella is actually rushing.

Yeah. Here's my actual answer. No, this is bizarre. David Bryce, murdering Susan Atwell, becomes one of the great murder trials of the 80s. Maybe it starts C-SPAN. Like, oh, day three in the Bryce trial. But Scott is going to be held responsible, right?

No, because Costner gives the note at the end. Right, right. To implicate Bryce. I think at least brings his political. career down if not making him this is right around an Iran-Contra time

do you I mean that's the that's the question is does Tom stay or leave does he go back to to Russia or does he stay in the states I think he stays in the states I think he's he's had a

he's had a taste you know would you rather had no way out to or water world I would rather have had no way out to yeah I wish that there were missed opportunity you know my take on this

is the water world is now underrated not like water world you know actually a pretty cool action movie. I test drove that take and watch 20 minutes of Waterworld and I was like Sean's fucking nuts. But there's like, once you get past the setup and you start getting into the

action scenes, it's like pretty crazy that they pulled that movie off. Yeah. Fair. To me if you were like the postman is actually good, like that movie's not good. Like he's made plenty of movies that like are long and boring. Waterworld is not that bad though. It's not. It's not. No way out to would have been fun.

What's next year? Bobby Bonilla's contract. actually wasn't that bad. Is that next week? Was it that bad? Was it that bad? What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? This would be weird

to have memorabilia from this movie, but probably the gift. The gift. Oh, yeah. Oh, the jewel box. Yeah. Is that Susan's car? That car is dope.

We've made cars ineligible for this category. I know. I was just curious, like, did Bryce get her that? It's a good question. What does she do? She's a professional gum. She lies around in her bed all day.

No offense. Well, she says we both work for Bryce. because he's like, he's my boss. I think she probably helps out at the mall, helps out Oman sometimes. South African model friend who's just kind of working on the floor here at Georgetown Mall.

Coach Finstackle were a best life lesson. Don't have a gumar. Don't have a gumar and don't trust anyone who might seem like a Russian. That's the thing of, that's the genius of the movie. Has Kevin Costner ever in his life

seemed like a Russian? That's why the movie's great. Yeah. He's perfect. He's the All-American man. It's so great when he's like, oh, it's been a while

since I've, like, heard Russian, you know? Who won the movie? Costner. I agree. You don't want to do a Sean Young test drive or Sean Young text?

She's just not in enough of it. I think she's incredible and she makes it. It's Koster. Koster's great in this movie. Yeah. Kostner, Cruz is a really fun. You want to spice up that category going forward?

I don't know if crew, no, just for this movie. I don't know if Cruz is old enough in 87. He's still, like, in that Pete Mitchell kind of, Cocktail.

And I don't think Costner's is like... It's a movie he needed to make in like 1995. Certain is like about who he is and who he's, how he's perceived. Where like he really fucks with his image in this movie. He does. Yeah. Who is the best possible version of Yuri in this movie? Is it like could Brad Pitt in the late 90s, early 2000s have been even better in this?

I think Brad Pitt should do a movie like that where it turns out he's something completely different. that's a good call. I mean Donaldson makes a version of this again called the recruit. Spacchino and Colin Farrell. I don't mind the recruit. Yeah. It's, well, I don't want to give away the recruit, but some similar themes. You're concerned about

spoiling a 20-year-old movie. Now it's time. Producer Craig. Watch this movie. A movie that came out 37 years ago, he was like minus 7. You knew nothing about it. We told him that's Google anything. What did you think? I think the twist wins the movie if that's allowed.

if that's not allowed my boy Will Patton wins the movie not even close Will Patton is out of his mind you guys undersold the whole thing I think Will Patton could have been the Joker Like I think he would have been a great Joker Yeah that's a good one

Will Patton is the Joker Oh he would have been an incredible joke He never really went this big again Yeah he's more like a kind of humble character actor after this which is funny Yeah so I watched this movie with my brother, he was in town for work, and I was like, hey, I know we only have one night to see each other. Would you be interested in watching no way out? He had never heard of the movie. Neither had I.

We watched it. Uh, the twist blew us away so much. Like, we both stood up when the twist happened. We watched the last 15 minutes of the movie again. Um, so when he makes the pay phone and he's like, I can't. Didn't pick up on it. Okay. We were just like, you know, it just goes over your head. Yeah. We didn't, like, the landlord guy, we were like, that's weird. I don't know what his landlord's deal is, you know, and again, you piece it all together afterwards. Truly, I've actually had the six cents spoiled for me. So this might be, maybe usual suspects. Did you have primal fear spoil for you? No. Okay. But this one hit way harder. I think the Costner thing just completely blindside you. All that to say, I thought the movie was awesome.

You guys are way off with Sean Young. She doesn't work at all. Wow. Interesting. Really? Huge miss. Zero appeal. I thought she was like a cartoon. Her like weird, I thought there's a scene in the lakehouse when she like pulls up her dress and she's like, bra.

And I was like, what is this woman doing? She's like, you want to look down my dress? Grow four inches. And I was just like, this is, we need to kill her immediately. Not wearing a condom with that woman is insane. This is up there when Philip Seymour Hoffman is overrated.

She's the most bizarre energy in this movie. I think her attractiveness really does belong. to that time. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. She does not make sense in any of the same ways now. I don't know if Craig can produce throw your life away. Like, I don't know if you can. I think like borderline like the first 30 minutes of this movie are are like actively bad because of her. And then you know the drawing of you know the meme of the horse that's like a very detailed drawing and then it gets crude at the end. Uh-huh. This is like the opposite to me. Like every minute that goes by like this movie gets better.

But in the beginning I was like, what is happening? So you're wrong about that. But we, we're We haven't discussed the Phil Hoffman take. You and I, off mic, are on. And I need you to apologize for your sins. Like, you need to, you need to go to church. I stand by it. That's, that is, that is sinful. Maybe some of the movies I threw in aren't the correct call, but for the majority of the movies I mentioned, he's kind of the same guy.

I told Bill, I was like, I've never had more people tweet at me about a podcast I was not on in my life when that take went out. It's truly amazing. Listen, we encourage all opinions here at the ringer. That's right. It's a big tent. If we don't agree with them. Yeah, all Gumar's welcome. It just felt like, and again, I thought I would give this movie like a two thumbs up,

but I still feel like the bar for movies was just lower back in the day. That is true. Because some of the movies that succeeded this year are movies that would just be like a Wednesday at Netflix now, like Steakout, which I love. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. You mean for like mainstream? in the theater.

I think they look a lot better and I think they have much better production values though. Yeah. Well, it's like basketball. You watch some of the people from the 80s and you're like, oh my God.

Yeah, Larry Bird's lighting it up over Kent Benson. Yeah. But now, you know, Benson have fundamentals. Yeah. True. All right, Craig.

Craig produced this podcast. Thank you. Chris and Sean. I will see you next week. We're doing another one next week. Double header. Yeah. Let's play too.

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