The Rewatchables - 'Ocean’s 11' With Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: June 7, 2018

The Ringer’s own Rat Pack is back together. Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins head to Vegas to take on a job—to rewatch and celebrate 2001's 'Ocean’s 11,' starring George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts, and Matt Damon and directed by Steven Soderbergh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's never been done before. 150 million without breaking a sweat. You're suicidal? Congratulations. You're a dead man. Someone called for a doctor? You're a thief and a liar. I only lied about being a thief.

Welcome to the rewatchables. My name is Chris Ryan. I am joined by the Oceans 3 today. Juliet Lippman. Hi. Amanda Dobbins. Chris, hello. Sean Fennacy.

It's nice to be podcasting with proper villains again. I'm so excited. to talk about what might be the most rewatchable movie of the century since released in 2001. Ocean's 11 is directed and shot under a fake name by

Steven Soderberg. It is a remake reimagining of the 1960 Rat Pack classic, replacing Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and Sammy Davis Jr. with George Clooney, Red Pitt, Matt Damon, Don Cheadle, and many others, which we will get to soon. It is

about an ex-con, Danny Ocean, who enlist his friend Rusty Ryan to pull the most impossible of heists, simultaneously robbing the Bellagio, the Mirage, and the MGM grand. For Danny, it is a personal vendetta. Those casinos belong to Terry Benedict, notorious Vegas operator, who has won the affection of Danny's ex-Tess, played by Julia Roberts. Danny and Rusty enlists nine associates to help them with their scheme, which they plan to pull off on a fight night.

Ocean's 11 made $450 million worldwide. And it has been a staple of cable television since its release, whether it's like on TNT, just at Juliet's house, wherever you can find it. It has spawned two sequels, the wonderful Oceans 12. The best sequel. And perhaps at this point, the underrated Oceans 13? Yeah. And this week we'll see Oceans 8 with Kate Blanchett and Sandra Bullock hit screens. Soderberg was arguably among the biggest directors in Hollywood.

this very moment, right? Like, maybe not as big as a Spielberg type, but he was coming off this run of out of sight and the Limey and then the 2000 Oscar winning two-for-traffic and Aaron Brockovich. Damn. That's impressive. Yeah. So, like, he's really hearing Jimmy at this point, he's got the Kwan. He also then comes across this group of actors who are in similar situations. And when we kind of, like, affectionately think about, like, what Hollywood could be, I'm pretty sure we mean late 90s, early 2000s, George Clooney, Brad Pitt. Because here's...

I'm blushing. And Amanda are very excited. Clooney was coming off of out of sight, three kings, O brother, where art thou, and the perfect storm. Which sounds like... And motherfucking ER.

Yes. Yeah. Of course. Brad Pitt coming off of Fight Club, the Mexican spy game snatch. Friends. Hell yeah. Still, Jennifer,

Kemp. Damon was arguably in the quote unquote worst shape of these guys. Coming off of rounders, dogma, the legend of bagger vance, and the infamous All the Pretty Horses directed by Billy Bob Thornton, which was just one of the great debacles of more recent studio history. This is a movie about cool kids made by an outsider.

That's what I think makes it work. I think that Steven Soderberg is the perfect observer of this Masonic club of cool guys. And he finds this amazing tone, this amazing sense of humor that these guys share. and it is maybe like the movie you most want to spend time with. These guys are cool, they look great, they like each other, it all works out in the end. Sean, let's start with you. Why do you find Oceans 11 so rewatchable?

You just activated so many ideas I hadn't really considered. That was a very good intro. I think that it's actually a right place, right time movie. You know, it is we were, the world was ready for all of these people to be doing this stuff. Soderberg was clearly ready to just make people happy. Aaron Brockovich and traffic are really weighty, and I don't think I've aged that well. They're like kind of the inverse of this movie, which is just a joy in succession for decades. So I don't know.

I think that it is timeless, which is a bit hokey to say. And also it just put everybody in a position to succeed. It was the right version of Matt Damon at this time. It was the right version of Clooney. The only person, I... Upon reflection, I wanted more Julia Roberts. That was my one takeaway. But otherwise, I think everything is perfectly, perfectly assembled.

What do you think of that, Amanda? I would agree with that. For me, this is the ultimate movie, star movie. Yeah. Like, this is really, it understands the charisma and the presence of everyone on the screen, and it understands that that has a value on its own, and it's willing to let Clooney and Brad Pitt. And Damon to an extent, though, I thought you were going to say, I wanted a little more from Matt Damon. He doesn't quite get to shine in the way, even that he does in Ocean's 12, which is, you know, I said it earlier.

I really love Ocean's 12. I think we should be doing both. And it extends this idea of commenting on movie stars as well. And Julia Roberts in this movie is extraordinary because she just shows up and you don't want to stop watching her. But especially right now we don't, we have lost the idea of movie stars. They get trapped in capes and franchises and brands. And the person and the personality is really not the currency right now. and this is peak movie star.

And it's fun to watch. And that idea of wanting to spend time with them is in part because they're just really cool and pretty to look at. I did the whole thing without commenting on how hot Bradford is. So I'm just setting up Julia. She's so hot.

I think Soderberg telegraphs, like all those ideas, like within the first 10 minutes too, by setting up Rusty going into the poker game where it's like all of these really soapy actors. Like it's Joshua Jackson, Holly Marie Combs. Like it's all the people that I really cared about

in that moment. and it sort of like sets up the dichotomy of like, no, these are not the real people. Like, let's focus on the real movie stars and just sort of like creates this feeling of playgrounds right away, like between even like prison as a playground for Danny Ocean and then the poker game as like where Brad Pitt is in control. And then like Vegas being the ultimate like playground for like the cool kids to take over. He like right away communicates ideas about celebrity with just like the settings and the sort of like the dichotomies that you like pointed out. And those come across like the first like 15 minutes and then you're just like, okay, you're in. Like you know what side you got to be on.

And you just, like, there's so much momentum. It's like a roller coaster. It also has a real sense of humor about it. That scene that you mentioned, at the end of it, Tofer Grace and crew come out, and they are sworn by paparazzi, and George Clooney and Brad Pitt get to wander off away from paparazzi down the street, which, like, it's an in-joke. We all know that that wouldn't happen in real life,

and they would be tailed by the paparazzi, but it's funny. The movie knows what it's doing. Yeah, absolutely. And also, like, amazing that Stephen Soderberg got those three actors, Joshua Jackson, Holly Marie Combs, and Tover Grace to sign on. to like make fun of themselves. That was the peak of all their careers, basically. Mr. Ocean, what do you do for a living?

You don't like me asking? Why would I mind you asking? Two cards. I just got out of prison. Really? And why were you in prison? I missed all things. You stole things.

Like, uh, jewels. Incan matrimonial head masks. Any money in those? Incan matrimonial head masks. There's some. let them fool you. There's boblodes. If you can move them. I have some concerns that they're not aware that they're being made fun of it.

Well, Tophon. Trace has made multiple movies with Soderberg at this point. So apparently he's in on it. It works. I don't know if Holly and Marie Combs knew that she was participating in an Incan matrimonial headmask bit in that poker game. Yeah, what about my guy from Seventh Heaven? What's his name? Barry Watson?

Oh, no, Barry. Yeah. Yeah. And then Shane West, too, from E.R. Right? Yeah. And Don Chino was on ER for a moment as well. The E. Arc, Oceans 11, connected universe. So much crossover. It's just a delight for me. Also, there's a great joke not to go too far

far afield into that scene, but right before they go outside and encounter the paparazzi, Clooney turns to Dofergris and is like, so, you know, is it tough to make the transition from TV to movies? Which obviously George Clooney did five years earlier with ER. One of the things that's genius about this movie, and, you know, this is one of the first times

I can remember being aware of the meta-narrative around a movie's production. So they did not hide the fact that they really enjoyed themselves making this movie. In fact, later on, after the movie had been released, Mark Wahlberg, who had initially been slated to play Linus, was really salty where he was basically like, yeah, I went off and made Planet of the Apes and the Truth About Charlie, both of which sucked. But what else was I going to do, sit around patting George on the back and talking about what a

great time I had? You know, like, it was definitely a concerted effort by the people involved to make this seem as fun as possible. And I think the combination of that obvious looer, and affection people had for each other. And then in the background, you've got Soderberg doing all of this hyper modernized version of like 70s crime caper movie tricks with the wipes and the zooms and the, you know, the little montages that he would pull off. And it's essentially a very traditional robbery movie. It's like the Hot Rock.

It's like any of these other movies that kind of it built itself on. But it just feels so fresh. What I'm surprised about is how it still. if it feels fresh, that these bits that they don't come off as like really chauvinistic or obnoxious yet. Those guys don't seem super privileged assholes.

Like they're just kind of like self-effacing gorgeous people who are having a really good time in a place where you can have a really good time. Emis is on gorgeous. Yeah. I mean, you're a big Vegas fan. Like, I mean, did this make you fall in love with the idea of going to Vegas? No. No.

That was embedded years earlier. I think you're right, though. I think one of the things that's useful about this. And this may not be true 20 years from now, but almost all these people still just look like this. They just look exactly the same. So when the movie comes on cable, you're like, well, I mean, when you're a movie star, you're in amber, you know, like you get to be taken care of in a way that other people are not taken care of. So your products, which I'm sure Amanda would love to talk about, are higher level. You know, your surgery is higher level. You're able to

maintain that beauty and the fact that they just don't age. Yeah. So the movie holds his power. there is a definite awareness of like movie star qualities you were talking about the George Clooney escalator entrance an incredible incredible plenty of shots of Pitt where he seems to have like a real almost like physical like Czorbrick has like a appreciation of what people find attractive about these guys what do you think he captured about Clooney specifically I know he's a lifelong project of yours uncomfortable at the moment he's not on it a lifelong project George Clooney is the best movie star because he is effortless and everything he does in this movie is with so much grace and ease

and it's like you're not, it's like is Danny Ocean actually George Clooney? Like he became infamous for the pranks that he does on set and like the camaraderie that he engenders. And he's just like a real, like he's kind of like the LeBron of movie stars. Like I'm a real camaraderie guy. And this movie is about camaraderie also. And so it's a real confront.

for me of like real George Clooney and Danny Ocean and them being like the perfect movie star. And he's just, he's just so great. He's also so suave. And at no point do you ever wonder like, is he going to get the girl? Of course he's going to get the girl. He's George Clooney slash Danny Ocean. And he just makes everything seem so easy and like deliberate. Do you think that this movie is the same if it's not Julia? No. Not at all. I mean, should we do casting what ifs? Because there are, there are a bunch of them and the movie's completely off. if you change any one of them.

We'll do casting what ifs and we'll do the rest of the awards now. Have you guys any more final thoughts? Big picture thoughts you'd like to share? I'm sure we can pepper them throughout. George Clooney is my hair icon. That's it. George Clooney is a love of my life.

That's it. All right. This is casting what ifs brought to you by ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Talent is obviously very important in the movies, in your business. And ZipRecruiter matches

the right job seeker for the right job. ZipRecruiter is the ultimate casting agent for your job. ZipRecruiter makes it so you don't have to wonder what if. But we're going to wonder what if, because Oceans 11 has some great casting what-ifs, guys. Like, just the versions of this movie that could have been made based on the casting alone are stunning.

Obviously, the one that I think you will find if you just do a cursory Google is Luke and Owen Wilson were originally slated to play the Malloy Brothers, which was eventually played by Scott Kahn and Casey Affleck. Juliet and I spent about 10 minutes discussing this yesterday. I mean, it would have been like an infusion of bottle rocket into Oceans 11, basically. Yes.

It would have been fantastic. I mean, I'm a huge Owen Wilson fan, though. Like, he is my favorite part of the Royal Tenen Bounds. I love both of them. And that's why they couldn't do the movie, is that they had to shoot Tenen Bones. Yeah. And I think it would have been different,

especially when you, I think the best part of Ocean 13 is Casey Affleck and Scott Conn in Mexico. And it's, like, hard to imagine the kind of like the screwball comedy that those two bring with the Wilson brothers. It would have been a little bit more Tweed, would have been a little bit more emphasis on like the Pitter. pattern of how they speak to each other. It would have changed the vibe. Also, they both had way bigger profiles in 2001 than Scott Conn and Casey Affleck, so they would have taken some of the shine away from our top three. Would they? Yeah. There, that have been possible? I'm biased because I just love Owen Wilson. I think you need an Iguidal and a David West here. You just can't have,

I personally think you're right. Owen Wilson would have been like, because that's a genius comedic actor. That would be really tough. He can also, and I don't mean to be rude here, he can play dumb a little bit better than Luke can. You need a certain... Luke is just dumb. No, I think there is something that is pretty stupid about the gags that the Mormon twins have throughout. And it's funny because it's supposed to be stupid and so you can laugh at them while also laughing with them. But I don't know that the Wilson's could carry off those levels. It would be a little too

pretentious or... I agree. I think it would have been pretentious. Kind of winking at the... Yeah, it might have been Arch. This is probably the only one I would have been okay with. I think everything else you'll say on the what-ifs side would have been like this would have ruined the movie. They just have so little to do that it's just comic relief

and I do like watching them, but I'm a big Tenet Mounds fan, so I'm glad we got that movie. Me too. So speaking of Arch, and I don't know how real this is, but it was definitely, it's definitely been written about before. It was that Joel and Ethan Cohen were also up for the Malloy Brothers. There was also a moment where they may have done this.

I need the doc on that. I need the papers that show that that was something that was genuinely discussed because the idea of the Cohen's going in front of the camera feels highly implausible. I kind of like it though because there's the stories about them living with Holly Hunter and Frances McDormand, like when they all got out of college and they are also like kind of like gang guides that they go back to like the same cast and whatever. And I feel like that vibe would have fit. But I agree with you.

It seems bizarre. It's a little too inside joke. Yeah, I think you're right. The one that I'm pretty into is this idea of Ray Fines playing. I presumably basher. Now, I am basing this largely on his performance in In Bruges. What I read was that he was up for Terry Benedict. Oh, yeah, that's what I thought as well.

He was one of the three possible Terry Benedicts, which, you know, it's interesting, and he's obviously played. And in Bruges, he was kind of a bad guy in that vein too. Obviously, he is he who shall not be named. Is that how you do it? Bench barred show out. So he's done villain before. Okay. So Ray Fines as Terry Benedict? It messes up the alliances for me because this is too close to English patient.

And then I'm just like, oh, maybe I want Julia to be with Ray Fines. I don't really know. He's wearing a suit. He's got some money. Maybe we should weigh our options here. So I need to be on Danny's side. Alan Arkin was originally going to play Saul that over the role played by Parwiner. That would have been great. I think that would have been fine. Mike Myers was attached to the cast. Fun no. No. No. What to do there. One of the earliest sort of articles that you can find about, and it's sort of Brad Pitt circling Oceans 11,

is this Hollywood Reporter of a Variety article from 2000. Has Johnny Depp playing Linus? I'm against Depp. I don't enjoy him. Were you against him in 2000? Yeah. The only movie I really like him in is What's Eating Overgrape? Everything else, I'm just like, no, thank you, overacting.

I've never gotten Johnny Depp. He's just not for me. I was a fan of his in 2000 for sure. I mean, this is pre-All the, you know, Willie White. Pirates of the Caribbean, all that stuff. And I thought he was an interesting actor at that time. Not quite the right frequency for this movie, though. I can't imagine him and George Clooney talking words to each other.

He has a darkness to him. He also, 2000 Johnny Depp, if you forget everything else, was kind of operating on a Brad Pitt, handsome vibe. You can't have those guys coming. That's what I was going to ask. You need different, you know. It's hard to imagine Donny Depp wearing glasses and like a baseball hat and like, you know, wearing a parquet and Chicago and getting dunked on a lot. Has Johnny Depp ever thought to himself,

oh, I just wanted to blend in today. Like, definitely not. No, no, he probably would have been like, my guy has to be bald and have, like, snaggle tooth. Mark Wahlberg was originally, was also attached to play Linus. He had this weird reaction after the fact. And that's pretty much it. Did you have any others that you wanted to share Amanda?

About the Julia Roberts role? No, I, well. Oh, okay, I didn't know if there was somebody who would. I read a very, and this is entirely specious, but this is also the name of this game, that Bruce Willis was at one point in contention for Danny Ocean, which I like Bruce Willis, but, you know, that's an entirely different movie

because Clooney anchors the whole movie, so that makes no sense. And then also it doesn't allow for, thank you so much for this setup, my favorite cameo in Oceans 12, which is because Bruce Willis didn't wind up in this movie, he shows up to the heist, mid-heist in Oceans 12,

when Julia Roberts is there pretending. Julia Roberts is Tess pretending to be Julia Roberts. And they have this whole dialogue about Bruce thinks he's talking to Julia Roberts, who's playing Tess, and there's a thing about a sponge bob pillow. And it's really, really good commentary on celebrity in the 2000s. They're all making fun of themselves. It's great. So I'm glad that Bruce Willis turned down this role so that we could have that scene.

Yeah, I'm glad to. The Ocean's 12 stuff, like, is very important for, like, for all of those. people involved. It made me like, like Julia Roberts, even way more. All right, so that is the casting what ifs brought to you by ZipRecruiter, 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter, get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash rewatch. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash rewatch. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, guys, let's just get into the rest of the awards. We watch most rewatchable scene for Oceans 11 is actually hard. It is not, I think, a movie

that's defined by individual scenes as much as just the flow of the movie. And so I will cop to the fact that I think that my nominees are a little top heavy in the beginning of the film because I find that the heist itself kind of just goes on and on

and doesn't have like distinguished scenes. So my nominees are the poker scene, which we can include the entrance of Danny Ocean and their banter back and forth. Rubin's introduction and the three Vegas robbery attempts with taking place. My breath away playing.

Clooney's, this is how we're going to do it. Monologue with the banter back and forth, which we can't. And the Claritoulun scene at the end, just the montage at the end of the guys looking at the fountain. Claire DeLoon has been my alarm sound for the last 10 years. Is that true? Yes. I was hoping we were going to talk about Clarede Loon, but I did not know it would be so prominent. I wake up to it literally every single day.

And that works for you? You wake up? Yeah. It just finds like a beautiful way to wake up in the morning thinking about these 11 guys staring at a fountain. And I just love piano music. These 11 career criminals. I just love a great thief.

Are you starting to build your... This is a movie about bad people and we shouldn't love it? That's right. We will not be celebrating Oceans 11 today in this era, in this time. No, I'm sorry, you were saying Claire Dalloon. Yeah, it's just, I think the most iconic scene. I think also it's amazing because it takes out all of the things we've talked about so far. It is like very still.

There's very few faces. There's like they are, the band is breaking up. And it's just sort of like a beautiful end note on a really well-executed movie and heist. Yeah. Amanda, what's your most rewatchable scene? So I have a list about 12. Okay. They include everything that you just mentioned.

So I'm going to add some more. And you make a good point that it really is just kind of a rolling movie and it's hard to isolate them. There is one actual standalone scene, which is Danny and Tess at dinner the first time when he confronts her. And that's just Julia. Roberts on 11, really, really nailing every line. The script is great throughout, but it's really one you can see the level of the writing and also. And their chemistry specifically. Exactly. So that's a big one for me. I like the House Always Wins Beach, mostly because it's the, every single aside when it's just Clooney and Pitt having a bromance and not really talking

but talking is a delight. And I just want to be the third person in that room. But the House Always win speech is the only one with actual proper nouns. Yeah. So it's the one that I isolate. It's also when he says been practicing that. Yeah, it's great. That's actually the entire charm of the movie summed up in one exchange. I need a reason.

Don't see money. Why do this? Why not do it? Because yesterday I walked out of the joint after losing four years of my life and your cold-decking teen beat cover boys. Because the house always wins. Play long enough. You never change the game.

stakes, the house takes you, unless when that perfect hand comes along, you bet big, and then you take the house. Been practicing this, P.T. A little bit, did I rush? It felt like I rushed. That was good. I liked it. Team beat things much.

It's like, this is actually really cool, and I'm falling for it, and then somebody deflates it with, like, a sarcastic joke. Yeah. And then one more, when Linus, Matt Damon, is doing recon, and he presents Terry Benedict's whole day. Yeah. And then it ends with Julia Roberts's entrance, which is the best part of my day. is, yes, which is almost as good as Clooney coming up the escalator and she walks down. And then Brad Pitt is there eating his shrimp cocktail, which is my favorite of the foods that

he eats throughout the film. We will get to that. Yeah. But it brings it all together in a really artful but fun zippy way. I think those are really good nominees. I rewatching it again last night, I was taken by how funny Bernie Mac is in this movie. Every time he's on screen, every line of dialogue. like he has is really, really funny.

His encounter with the van dealership guy is incredible and feels like it's operating almost a different movie. They told me to come see you. Sure glad they did. And I'm like the gene. You know, like that whole, that whole thing is great. And obviously his showdown with Linus, you know, the stage showdown in front of Terry Benedict.

Might as well call it White Jack. Exactly. Everything happened to Bernie. I just really appreciate it the second time around. Yeah, I think, so for me, the scene where I just feel like I am like getting a contact high is still the poker scene. Just because the being in on the joke that a bunch of people in the scene are not in on is such like an incredible feeling.

And also just the patter back and forth and the idea that there is this whole ink and matrimonial head mask market and this idea of fencing. And you kind of get a peek into their career criminal nature and maybe what they've done together. I think visually that one's also really interesting because a lot of the moments we've talked about or like very, have like very linear or visual cues, like the up and down of an escalator, the up and down of an elevator. And the poker scene has like the lighting behind it

that is like, that breaks the screen into like the foreground. The top and the bottom with like the round table in the middle. And it's just like it's visually so distinct from the rest of the movie. It's also very dark where like the lighting is much more as like sun drenched for the Vegas parts and then, you know, no light in the casino. It just stands out.

The feeling of like why Brad Pitt is looking for something like this because he's so bored. You know, he's just staring at mermaids in L.A. bars and drinking whiskey. Also, really love the shot of the car driving when they meet up and they go to get Chinese food or whatever. And, like, they're shooting. But let's say...

They go to Muso and Franks, which I didn't learn until... I didn't understand that until moving to Los Angeles. But yeah. So we'll go with the poker scene just out of affection. What age the best? I only have three things because I think you can pretty much break it up into three things. But I have the tone. George Clooney's suits.

and the heist. Can I ask you a sartorial question? Certainly. Does George Clooney and Oceans 11 invent wearing an open shirt collar with a suit as like a thing you can do when you go out like in the world? Invent is a strong word.

Popularized. I think that there was a, there's just a Vegas rich guy, cool guy thing that they cemented. I don't think it necessarily invented anything. It's a kind of a genius contrast between the loudness of a lot of what Brad Pitt's doing. You know, Clooney is really reserved and even in navy and gray and white shirts and blue shirts.

And Brad Pitt, you know, at the end of the movie when he's like, you know, the Ted Nugent, you took Ted Nugent's shirt, you know, that whole line is obviously meant to show the sort of like alpha omega quality of those two guys. I just think, I don't know, Cluny's got a, he's got like the perfect frame, the perfect height, the perfect hair, the perfect tailoring. Like all of his stuff is just right for 2001. I think. Every year, Sean. That's a look that can go wrong and can look very seedy for lack of a better word, very vagus lounge rat, and he makes it, you know, look like Carrie Grant, which you can give him that.

He didn't invent it, perhaps, but he made it open. I feel like he invented it maybe an out of sight, right? Isn't it that scene where he like cleans up and out of sight and he has that encounter with Jennifer Lopez? And that's whenever he's like, oh, movie star, he's a movie star. And it's basically a continuation of that look. Well, there's something for me that's weird, but it's like, when I watch Swingers, you know, and I was coming out of high school

and I'd never been to Vegas before, and I never, I don't think I'd gone to Vegas before Ocean's 11 come out either. That's probably the movie that made me fall in love with Vegas, by the way. Swingers. Yeah. But Swingers is like really, it's like really try hard. It's like we got to get our suits

and we have to drive six hours. We're not getting like a private flight to McCarran or something. And everything is very like stressful about Swingers. And this seems so like effortless. Like you would not know that it would, was probably 101 degrees and everybody was like, you know, needed like a ton of moisturizing cream because they've been breathing recycled oxygen for however long they've been in Vegas. It's like everybody looks like they're at a spa all the time in this movie.

There's a lot of erodecences as well, like shimmery, shimmery shirts and clothes on Brad Pitt and Julia Roberts. God, you're doing such a deep read of the cinematography. I love it. I actually love Soderberg. The Nick is on my favorite shows. So there's, there's the, obviously the George Clooney suits. What do you guys think is the Is age the best? The tone? Is it the heist? I think it like reinvented the getting a gang together sequence.

Yeah. I love the getting a gang together sequence. Same. It's kind of been getting ripped off pretty aggressively for like the last 15 years. This one is just awesome. And like a patently absurd, you know, like the whole the grease man set up where they have to go observe him perform at Barnum's like that. All of that stuff is so ridiculous, but really, really, really sings.

I love how like I love all of, uh, the travels they do to put the gang together, especially going to like Florida to get Saul or whatever. It's just great stuff. All right. Well, we'll say the tone age the best. So that kind of encapsulates it all. I did. You made a good point with the heist, though, that I think we'll talk about throughout. Yeah. Which, watching it again, almost 20 years later, it could be so updated and so technologically dependent that it just seems silly. And there could have been a lot of, I mean, not that Soderberg would use cheesy CGI graphics or weird made-up words, but it really really, really. does seem entirely plausible that that's still how a vault works and that you could cut out

a phone line and maybe something else. There are a few nitpicks that we can get to later. Yeah. But I think it's very smart or either and lucky and maybe both that the technology isn't kind of the actual mechanics of the heist still seem entirely plausible. Oh, sure. Yeah. Like very lucky, but very plausible. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What's age of the worst? I only have Brad Pitt's suits or Brad Pitt's clothes. I had ties, his ties specifically. Everything else is like for a character and also, I mean, it's Brad Pitt. Is that a normal collar, Sean?

I have no comment about that joke. Juliet, what do you think is age of the worst? I'm trying to think. That view of Las Vegas. I just feel like it doesn't really capture like the pool party vibe, which living here in L.A. The Wet Republic vibe? Yeah, like you drive down the street in L.A., and there's so many billboards for like, come see DJ Pauly D.D. at D.A. is there all the time.

And it speaks to a vision of Vegas that is more closely tied to, like, the Rat Pack from Sinatra version than the 2018 I'm going into party. And, like, you will see Wayne Rooney at the pool version. Like, it's very different. That's interesting. I think in my experience... What an amazing example. He loves Las Vegas. In my experience in Vegas in the last five years, you can kind of have both.

If you want to avoid the pool going to excess a 2 a.m. version, you can do it and still have maybe not the rat pack version. It's very touristy. but you can have the I'm wearing a suit and I feel cool vision of that city. So it's not expired, but it is, it makes it seem slightly more important. Like, the Valaggio is maybe not quite as powerful as it is made to seem in this movie. The other thing that's funny is Brad Pitt is noted for eating so much. You wonder if they make it now, like, how do you work in a celebrity chef endorsement? Because it's a huge part of Vegas now, too.

Like, every famous chef has, like, one or two restaurants there, and, like, the food scene is very noteworthy. Yeah, maybe there'd be a Golden Knights game somewhere in that. Does it make you want to go to Vegas as a sort of Vegas agnostic? It's funny. We were just, as you guys were having this conversation, I'm the person on this podcast who has never been to Vegas. And this is the movie that would make me want to go to Vegas.

And Swingers is the reason that I've never been to Vegas. So it's like a hard no from me. Swingers is closer. Yeah, right. And I know that. And I'm also, I see the billboards that Juliet referenced. And that's why I've never been. But listen, if Brad Pitt is hosting, I'm available.

Okay. Let me know. Let's do some half-ass internet research, corner, sort of were considered shooting the film in black and white. I would have liked that. That would have been cool. It would also could just remix it and do it that way now. It would really change the movie, though, because there is, like, a lot of, like, pops

of color. Her jacket for the boxing match is, like, just really stands out and you would, you would, like, lose things like that. I think it would just also, that movie would not be as mainstream successful in black and white because there are a bunch of people and were like, I don't want to deal with it. And what I like about this movie is that it's perfectly executed and he's an amazing director, but it's also a popcorn flick. And it is really accessible.

It would change the commentary on celebrity a lot, too. Oh, for sure. Because I think it would almost be more moody. It would be impossible to make it look as like colorful. Yeah. Obviously. All those things that they talk about where they're like, we're going to need a Boski, a Leon Spinks, and Miss Daisy, all that stuff, are actually represented in the

movie itself. I didn't actually know this until I was reading about it. But a Bosky, as in Ivan Bosky, the Wall Street, fraudster, that's a reference to Reiner's con man saw. The Jim Brown is the Bernie Mac a bit. Miss Daisy is the getaway vehicle at the end. The two Jethroes are the Malloys.

Leon Spinks refers to doing something during a boxing match. And the Ella Fitzgerald is the videotaped robbery because Ella Fitzgerald did a 1970s commercial from Memorex where she apparently said, is it live or is it Memorex is like the tagline.

So it's like all of the little bits. That's a great tagline. Shut of that. are in the movie. I had no idea until I looked at stuff. Shout out Ted Griffin. Roberts was coming off of Aaron Brogovich and at this point was probably the biggest movie star in the world and was making $20 million a movie. So when Clooney sent her a script, he sent a note attached that said, I hear you're getting 20 a picture now and he put a $20 bill inside the script. That's incredible. And also, of course, George Clooney calls it a picture. Yeah, like, of course. I like that a lot. That's awesome. Yeah. So it's definitely a movie.

There's not a lot of, like, drama or sadness coming off of it. Apparently, Don Cheadle was not psyched about something that happened behind the scenes. There are suggestions that it had to do with his placement. His billing. His billing. But he has since said that he would have done that movie for free, but is glad he didn't do it for free. He's unbilled on this movie. Famously, his name does not appear in the credits, which is extremely curious.

But it does appear in 12 and 13 because they resolved it because they placed him alongside the power trio of Damon and Clooney and Pins. But yeah, that's like a pretty notable and interesting jockeying, especially only, I guess, one of two black actors in the film too. And so his fight for sort of a recognizability and credibility there is interesting. Let's talk about best heat check performance by our role player, aka the Dionne Waiters Award. This, you could go in a thousand different directions. I'm going to consider Clooney, Pitt, and Damon really as the quote-unquote stars.

So I'm going to let anybody else be on the table. The nominees, Elliot Gould. Just amazing. Like preseason number one pick right there. Dad.

Cheatel. Scott Khan and Casey Affleck will put together Julia and Tofer Grace. It's Elliot Gould for me,

no question. I mean, like such a beautiful perfect, Arkin would have been great too, but such a smart casting choice.

Like a person, he's really trying to evoke these like cool, funny, slick, jazzy 70s thriller heist movies

and like who better than Elliot Gould to kind of pull the string on that. And also he's just really funny. And he's a, he's a character who like says the thing that the normal human would say. We're just like, what the fuck are you talking about? You're going to rob a casino? Because it's ridiculous. It's certainly absurd. So I'm going

Gould. Julia. Okay. It's, she's this close to just hating everyone on any set that she's ever on. That's kind of what I love about Julia Roberts is that she's obviously charming. And America's sweetheart and, you know, has the smile that takes up half her face. But also, there is a undercurrent of disdain and impatience that speaks to me. And this Soderberg also understands that. And it's just literally, that animates the entire performance. She's on this, she's on screen for what? Like eight minutes.

Yeah. Electric. It feels like so much more. Yes. She feels like so important to the movie. They parcel her out well throughout the movie. Yeah. I wanted more, though.

I kind of wish I knew a little bit more about Tess and how Tess and Danny came together. I do have questions about that. Yeah, that's a weird relationship. I feel like this movie. movie follows the Jay-Z and Beyonce rule of life, which is like just saying less is more. And I just think that like if we had gotten more, maybe we would like her less. Not the rule of this podcast, unfortunately. Yeah.

I also think if you really tease out why Tess is with either of these people, then it falls apart really quickly. Yeah. I was thinking about how Julia Roberts is never outside in the sunlight in the course of this movie. Right, because they shot her for like three nights probably. Yeah, but, you know, this is part of my fascination with Las Vegas where you just like don't deal with natural light. Another reason I've never been.

But I was thinking about if someone is a curator and has the taste that is evidenced in this film by Julia Roberts and just is Julia Roberts, are they really just going to consent to live a life of sunless, air-conditioned rooms and hotel dining in Vegas every day? But also she was married to a thief, so then I'm just like, let's pull this back a little. Got some questions. Precious art can't see the light either, you know? That's true. That's true. Yeah. Incredible performance.

from you today. You're really just leaning right into the artistic. Who do you have as the Dion award here? I don't know. I kind of think it's Bernie Mac. Actually, I love this, the scene at the table. I'm sorry, I know you didn't mention him. He wasn't nominated. Right in. He's your Jill Stein. He's my Jill Stein. That's really insulting. Yeah, I think, I guess Bernie Mac. I think Elliot Gould is interesting because also to like people our age, they know him as Monica and Ross's father. So it's also kind of funny that he in this role, he is like such a good godfather role in this movie, which is more akin to like what he was truly famous for. But it's sort of like throwing him back into like a world that like a lot of people who know him just were not familiar with. I'm going to go with Gould too just because I love the idea.

Not only is he a connective tissue to the 70s films that Soderberg is obviously referencing with the style of the movie. But he does such a good job of like what if the rat pack guys just got like old, you know? Yeah, for sure. And, like, and rich. Yeah. Stinking rich. But, like,

these probably is, like, a vestige of the guys who were hanging around at the back end of the Rat Pack era and we're just, like,

around Vegas, and now are trying to make a little bit of money off of remaindered furniture. Oh, that part. That's such a funny line. Have a but live outside of the strip

and probably in, like, a house that they can't really afford. I love the L.A. gold performance. So we'll go, we'll go with him. I have a cue. Yeah.

Do you think they, at any point, they considered using a Frank Sinatra song in this movie and which music is so important. I don't know. Are we going to talk separately about the music? The music in this movie is really interesting. Yeah, we can definitely. Well, let's talk Apex Mountain first.

Okay. This is a very crucial category. Is this Brad Pitt's Apex Mountain? 100% yes. Are you asking me? I'm asking the floor. I just never loved Brad Pitt more than as Rusty Ryan in Ocean's 11. No, I think it's actually not close.

Wow. But that's to each their own. I agree with both of you. I've never loved him more. And this is just kind of the most... It's just Brad. It's the closest I will ever get to knowing what it's like to hang out with Brad Pitt,

which means a lot to me. I think that's a really good way to define it. It seems like what I hope the good version of real Brad Pitt is. Yes. Which is, you know, shrimp cocktail chewing joke machine. It's probably closer to the kind of guy

who comes up to you at a party and starts talking about his architecture. and this fancy table he bought. His recreational architecture and stilts, but, like, you're really just, like, why don't we just, like, play blackjack and eat nachos?

Yeah. I think there's a few Brad Pitt performances I like more than this, but this is definitely the most charming he's ever been. It's the least actory of the ones that I love. You know, the other ones would be

much more pretentious, but it's great. He's great. He's scaling the mountain. Okay. Is this Clooney Apex Mountain? No. Yes.

Ooh. ER? I think is ER, but also he's so good in the perfect storm. He is just so good. I love this shit. What a take. He is so good. That movie is excellent and he's amazing in it.

And like that also catapulted him to being a movie star. Yeah, for sure. And also he, you know, he did an episode of ER while he was filming that. So like that movie just really means a lot to me. This is who he's supposed to be. This is, there are other great performances and I'm willing to hear the argument for Clayton. or out of sight or all of those, but this is Clooney at his essential. And I think it also highlights his gifts better than, and I think he's better at doing this than he is at acting.

I really, I really do. So capital A acting, if you will. So it's so funny because, you know, he would be great as his father, like as a TV host and presenter. And I feel like he's kind of channeling. He does it when they do the monologue about how we're going to do the job. He essentially just hosts a TV show. And obviously, like, growing up around performers, like, you just kind of, like, absorb how to do that. And I think that, like, comes out. And on the director's commentary, I can't remember whether it's the one with Garcia, Damon, and Pitt, or the one with Ted Griffin and Steven Soderberg. But they shot that monologue pretty much, like, I think, a hundred times because they had to do so much coverage because there's nine people. And you can't just be like, we're not going to do a close-up of Matt Damon.

So they had to shoot it so many times. And each time he had to time the monologue to the video presentation of the blueprints behind it. And they didn't even do his close-ups until, like, the end of the day. They did it for two nights in a row all night long. It's not surprising to me that he's also a good athlete because I feel like people who are really good at a certain craft, like just nail repetition. And, like, that's part of what they do really well. That's, like, why professional athletes are so good, they can do the same thing, like over and over with, like, consistency. And Clooney's like that.

What was he a shortstop? What did he do? But he also played basketball. He plays basketball. Wasn't he drafted by the Reds or something? Yeah, he was. You're right. I also think it's his Apex Mountain. only because I think one of the things that really holds him back

is if he's going really serious like Siriana, he tends to overdo it. You can really feel him gritting his teeth. And if he's doing comedy, he really thinks he's Buster Keaton and his eyes go wide and he gets real hammy. And this is one of the only movies. He even does that quite a bit and out of sight.

People kind of forget that out of sight is very jokey with Steve's on and all that stuff. Yeah. This is one of the only movies he's ever made where Pretor Natural Cool is the whole point. Yeah. And he's just so good at that. It's between out of sight and this for me.

I think out of sight is a little bit more honest about what it probably is like to be a career criminal. And his performance portrays that. Like he does look slubby in certain parts of out of sight. So let's say we'll split the vote on that. Is this apex mountain for Matt Damon? I don't think so, right? No. No chance.

No, definitely not. I mean, no. What do you think it is? The Martian? Maybe. That's really good. I don't know. I know it's ridiculous because it was so early.

but like Goodwill hunting is just incredible. Of course it is, yeah. I think the firstborn and Goodwill are probably up there. Not enough talking and born. That's my one knit with that. Yeah. I like it when he talks. I do too.

He's got a great smile. A great, like, talking about a smile. Would anybody put Ripley in there? Yeah, great movie. I'm not sure it's like the essential Matt Damon, as you said about Clooney, but it's a good movie. I think that's when it's Faltero's apex. Certainly Jude Law's apex. Talk about an attractive.

Man. Is this Steven Soderberg's Apex Mountain? Nope. What is it? Hmm. I'm genuinely curious about your answer. Behind the candelabra. Here's what I think it is, just in terms of Soderberg.

It's the last time that he was... Fun? Concerned with the concept of relevance. You know, that he was actually... He was willing to forego... Playing the game. His desire to experiment to be a part of a system that he has come to hate. And he has openly talked about hating, which is just the studio system,

marketing budgets, being really a slave to this structure. And for whatever reason, he decided to do it three times, which is really funny. And maybe because he found new things to do inside those three movies. But I think they also really underwrote his, his burgeoning liquor business. Sure. Yeah. He got paid quite a bit of money to do it. I don't, it's hard to say. I mean, I love his small movies a lot, more than most directors who have small movies and big movies. Like, I love the Limey. I would watch. flying me every day of my life. So, you know, that's not like the sexy, fun answer like Ocean's 11 is, but I don't think it's his best movie. I think outside is his best movie. Are you going to go to the

Nick? I just, I absolutely adore the Nick. I think it's like provocative and different. It's like beautifully shot. It just is like telling a story that no one else cares about. That's why I was canceled. Like, I don't know. All right. We're going, I'm going Ocean's 11. Nice. Yeah, I think it is. Okay. Here's why. What about Ocean's 12 Amanda? Well, I, I, I, See, Ocean 12 is part of like the, I'm an experimental guy who's trying to think of Soderberg. And, you know, it's fun. He's trying to comment on the idea of a sequel and he does it better than anyone else does because he's capable of that. He's an extremely accomplished technical filmmaker. But the thing he has that most other quote, autos don't is that he understands enjoying movies. Like, he really understands the experience of enjoyment of going to a movie and wanting to watch it,

which, like, you can even see it in his culture diaries at the end of the year. He'll just, like, watch social network 20 times. Raiders five times, yeah. Fun to watch. And I think, I mean, I'm also just here to have fun. So that's, like, always what has drawn me to him. And I think that this is the thesis statement for that whole attitude. All right.

Well, we're going to continue with the awards, but we're just going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. Let's talk about hotel tonight. Maybe even use it in Las Vegas. If you love to score amazing deals at incredible hotels, you'll love Hotel Tonight. Hotel Tonight partners with hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, helping you find sweet deals at cool, top-rated hotels. Hotel Tonight shows you the best deals at hotels you actually want to stay at. No more scrolling through endless lists of choices.

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and I highly recommend it. Vegas has so many hotels, no better way to find a great deal. So get the Hotel Tonight app now to start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels. That's Hotel Tonight, the only booking app you need. And now, back to the show. Okay, guys, we are back. A couple more rewards to get through. For unintentional comedy, I made an executive decision and changed this to the Brad Pitt snack division.

Oh, great. There's not a lot of unintentional comedy. It's a pretty intentionally funny movie. But I just want you guys to let me know, what's your favorite snack in this movie? I'll give you the list. Nachos outside of the L.A. bar. Popcorn at the circus.

The frozen fruit parfait kind of thing that he's having, like the custard at the racetrack. He has a salad because you got to get the greens at the hotel room. He has a lollipop outside of the strip club when he goes to talk to Cheyenne. A shrimp cocktail, pit ate over 100 shrimp in those takes, apparently. Ice cream at the casino, a burger or a euro outside of the prison, and candy in the hotel room. Nachos, no question. Okay. I like when he's, like, shuddling things in his mouth.

So shrimp cocktail. I mean, he has the little bowl of sauce in the lobby. He has a nasty over his arm. I would love to live that way, with or without Brad Pitt, but preferably with. I think the three of you know I have a very unhealthy relationship with candy. So I'm going to go with candy. It's the burger on the freeway because he gets heartburn for a second. That is good.

Yes, that is a good moment. It grounds you in realism. Do you guys have any unanswerable questions or picking nits from this movie? I never completely understood how the high sense. worked. I'm still a little confused about it. Should we try to explore it? Sure. I found myself paying much closer attention to it last night than I have in the

30 other times I watched it. I'd love for you to explain it to me because I have two, like, watch it frequently. I'm just like, wait, how did this work? When did they film it? Let's try to do this clearly. As clearly as we can. So they rebuild what they presume to be the vault based on footage that they have captured and the blueprints.

So in this warehouse setting, they have rebuilt the Bellagio Vault. Yes. My first nitpick. that rebuilt vault appears to be no less than 300 feet from the actual Bellagio and the real strip when they're in the warehouse, you can see the Bellagio fountains right behind it, which leads me to believe that this is very close

to be taking over a warehouse and restaging... Especially with the amount of surveillance that goes on in Vegas that they wouldn't be like, we're already watching these guys, and now we see them across the street with construction materials. It's true, but it is also pre-veillance. Vegas 3.0 boom with real estate. So potentially on the strip, you could acquire a large piece of land.

Also, when you're entering Las Vegas, one, you misunderstand how big it is. It's very, this trip is very small. It's very conquerable. It's like less than two miles. And then in addition to that, there is a lot of just open land everywhere. So I'm not totally shocked by their ability to do that. That being said, this is a movie. We accept the movie logic.

So they rebuild this ball. And it's a little bit of a misdirection for the audience because I think we think they're just practicing. Yes. Precisely. We don't know that there is this whole other element to it, but go ahead. So they build the vault, and in the vault, they stage their own version of the heist, where they sort of, they're filmed taking bags out full of money, and they have the exes on the bags that indicate that these are the, this is the money from the casino. And then because of the work that is done by the technician, they're able to cut a loop of video into the security system that shows this filmed heist that had happened previously.

we don't know when that actually happened. And when they cut the power and they return to the heist during the fight night, Terry Benedict presumes that that is actually what's happening in real time, when of course it is not. They call a SWAT team to proceed and take down the heist members. So they participate in swatting? Yes, they participate in swatting. However, that call is intercepted by Oceans 11,

and they proceed to become the SWAT team, and then they enter the vault, and that is when they pull off the robbery. And then Terry Bennett's this whole time believes that there is some sort of mission to take down the robbers who are still in the vault, but they are not there. So the reason for the blackout,

which is just essential, is to change the footage that they're seeing. So it goes dark and then it comes back on for the security team. Exactly. Yeah, hence the Ella Fitzgerald. And there's a whole thing where they have to get the electromagnetic pulse machine

for Basher to use underground. Well, they also have to get, Clooney and Damon are actually. actually going in to the real house. Correct? And the guy in the cart. Right. So they have to cut the power so that all of the lasers,

the night fox lasers, part one, are axed so they can get that. That's right. Right. Cool. I'd love to be alone in the elevator shaft with George Clinton. My favorite thing that I don't think I had totally completely fully picked up on rewatching it is Pitt talking to Terry Benedict while wearing a SWAT team uniform. Yes.

Which is really great. There's also a lot of the entire heist is dependent on, you know, Matt Damon pickpocketing Terry Benedict in the interrogation room or the very specific bouncer coming to, quote, unquote, beat up George Clooney. And then that bouncer being able to sell pounding on him for, I think I'm guessing is supposed to be about 30 to 40 minutes. Yeah. Without anybody being like, how is that guy not dead yet, you know?

and then all of that being taken for granted. There was a couple of other things like that that were really, that are really like, if this doesn't happen exactly like this, then the whole thing is off. Here's the ultimate nitpick. This movie doesn't happen if the casinos do not agree to allow the movie to be filmed inside the casino.

Right. Which means there's no way this is how this works. There's no way this is how casino vaults work. I don't know what's inside of a casino vault. We'll never know because those are some of the most valuable places in the world. And also, that money is likely dispersed to myriad locations very quickly. Money moves very quickly out of Las Vegas.

And I don't think that they just entrust the entire security system to this cool British guy who's just like this can't be cracked, you know? Right. Also, I doubt that any casino in this high-stakes situation is calling the SWAT team, they have their own guys. Definitely. Like, they have their own people that they're calling. Also, the other nitpick is that there are essentially three security guys in the whole. It's the same guy who's manning the cameras, watching the camera, watching. in the vault and calling the doctor who turns out to be Brad Pitt.

I think they have a few more. I'm curious. So when you go to Vegas now, you basically, there is some flow. Like you could probably, you know, at certain points in the day, get to certain parts of a casino without the proper identification. But for the most part, especially at night, you have to show your hotel room key to even get to the elevator bank before you even get on the elevator. I hesitate to even wonder what would happen if you tried to do some of the stuff that Scott Conn and Casey. Affleck did, you know, in terms of sneaking into doors. And if you got caught on, like, break hacking into a computer system at a Vegas casino,

I think your life would be maybe over. Yeah, there's also the whole Lyman Zerga part that's just very, there's pretty confusing, but also the likelihood of a person like that with no credentials and no known identity in the world being able to get that much time with the owner of a casino. I mean, the- I actually don't agree with that. What? I think that Vegas is a really vapid, like, you know,

place for like if you pretend to have a ton of money and like are ready to spend a ton of money, you can kind of get where you want. But it's a little dishonest about how precise Terry Benedict is. You know, it's a whole point of Terry Benedict is like he knows every whale, you know, he knows every rich high roller. Well, but in that speech when Linus is establishing Terry Benedict's day, he says there's no matter or big or small that he doesn't handle himself. He likes to be.

And you, I was thinking about this. And then I was like, would you delegate to someone else to introduce an unknown object into your vault. Possible arms dealer. Yeah. You know, that's kind of the beating heart of the whole company. You're not just letting any rando handle it.

Yeah. Sure. I don't know. I wouldn't delegate that. We had Google in 2001, is what I'm saying. So we could just Google Limonzerre. This heist is still, I think,

it stands up under the stress test. It's not necessarily like, you could take this as a blueprint to go rob a casino, but I think it's still pretty fun. But I think it's almost like it's confusing nature is actually to its benefit.

Sure. It also, I think, doesn't get too deep in the weeds with it, so you just kind of like go along with the flow. Absolutely. All right. Let's do best quote. We only have a couple more here. Best quote, Danny, does he make you laugh? Tess, he doesn't make me cry.

I don't make this quick. I came here for you. When I get on with my life, I want you with me. You're a thief and a liar. I only lied about being a thief. I don't do that anymore. Steal. Lie.

I'm with someone now who doesn't have to make that kind of distinction. No, he's very clear on both. You know what your problem is? I only have one. You've met too many people like you. Also an incredible light reading by Julia there. Yes. Very, very good.

Danny Ocean, because the house always wins, play long enough. You never change the stakes. The house always takes you unless when that perfect hand comes along, you bet big and you take the house. This is literally what's going to go on Sean's tombstone. Doesn't Rusty say to him after that? Did you practice that? Yeah.

That's also part of it. the great part. Rubin, if you're going to steal from Terry Benedict, you'd better goddamn know this sort of thing used to be civilized. You'd hit a guy. He'd whack you. Done. But with Benedict, at the end, he'd better not know you're involved, not know

your names, or think you're dead because they'll kill you, and then I'll go to work on you. And then another Rubin classic. You guys are pros, the best. I'm sure you can make it out of the casino. Of course, less we forget, once you're out the front door, you're still in the middle of the fucking desert. I relate to that.

I fucking hate the desert. Did you guys have any other best quote nominees? Just really hard to get past that George Julia Exchange. It's just so good. I have one. Sure. You think we need one more? You think we need one more?

All right. We'll go on more. Which is just all Clooney and Pitt. And Pitt's just sitting there slumped. Yeah, he's got his lot teeny. He's got like a gimlet and he's just like slumped over. That's Bill talking about it if we need to add another podcast feed. I have one.

I love the. encounter between Rusty and the bartender when he says, how's the game going? And he says, the longest hour of my life. And he says, what? He said, I'm running away with your wife. Great. I also really like when Tofer Grace realizes that both his business

manager and his manager are named Bernie. You know what, they're both named Bernie. Okay. Would this movie have been better with Danny Trajo? Absolutely not. It's perfect. No. I think Danny Trao could have played Bruiser. That's what I was going to say.

He's the guy who beats up Clooney. Let's do a little... They knew! Overacting. I've probably just shot my voice, getting that one out. Amanda, I thought you might have one for this, right? Well, is it overacting? Damon is the one not quite...

Uncomfortable one for me. I mean, he's supposed to be uncomfortable. He's supposed to be this... poorly younger guy who doesn't really fit in and wants to fit in. But he plays the discomfort a little. He looks a little too confused. Yeah. And that's the opposite of Ruffalo screaming they knew, but in a way, it's the same thing.

It's like he's trying a little too hard to get the banter and the rhythm, right? Don Chino's accent. Come on, man. It's just like, I don't care for it. It's legit terrible. It's really bad. I don't think this. And like, maybe he wasn't top billing because he's bad in this movie.

Like, it just wasn't that good. Yeah, he, I read that he. agreed that it was bad when he was not happy with it. And he tried to change it in 12 and 13, but the producers would let him. He's my choice. I don't think he's that good in it. Can we talk really quickly about Garcia here?

Sure. Do you guys think he's good in this movie? What's he best known for? Untouchables and Godfather Part 3, probably. Because to me, he's just from the Meg Ryan movie, and I'm just like, I don't really need this guy. Oh, the one, she's an alcoholic? Yeah.

Yeah. I think he is right because you are never, ever rooting for him. You never want to, you never have empathy. You never, like, see his side of things, which is kind of how this has to go. You have to stay with the 11 the whole time, even though they're committing a crime. And he's effectively, like, either blank enough or rude and evil enough. It does make you question what the hell Tess is doing, as you alluded to earlier, Amanda. Right.

But I don't think it's over the top necessarily. But at the same time, you never feel bad for him. It's implied the whole movie that she just needs to and is going back to Danny. And you honestly don't even have to worry about are they going to get back together? You know they will. It has like a nice rom-com element to it of the conclusion is foretold. So he doesn't take up too much space also, which is useful. There are a lot of people doing their thing and he's just content to be the quiet villain.

I think quiet is a good note. I feel like he speaks a very low tone. Yes. That's appropriate. It's also, when you listen to the director's commentary, Pitt and Damon can't stop, like, gooseing each other. And they're just, like, enjoying talking about, like, the pranks and they're just roasting Clooney. And Andy Garcia is like, this was a really great experience. I loved working on this film.

I loved working on this picture. And, you know, I didn't spend very much time in my trailer because I enjoyed the atmosphere so much. It was just, like, you kind of just on the outside looking in of George Clooney's prankerama 2001, you know? What did you think of Vladimir Klitchko and Lennox Lewis's performance? performances in this movie. They did good work. They hit their marks. Do you think if the power went out during a title fight that the two boxers would then

go at each other in the dark in the ring? When the power went out during the Super Bowl, remember that? I think it was the NFC championship, right? No, it was the Super Bowl. It was really your house. Yeah, we got into the argument about momentum at that point. Wow, not here, Chris. Do you think that when the lights went out, how many people do you think thought,

this is Ocean's 11? Someone's trying to rob. So much trying to rob? Yeah. We might have even made that joke when that happened. Let's just wrap it up with who won the movie. Clooney, Pitt, Damon, or Soderberg? I think it's Brad Pitt.

As much as I love George Clooney, I just think it's Brad Pitt. Plot twist from you. I just think that he is so effervescent and understated and perfect. I just think it's Brad Pitt and also so hot. It's hard to argue with that. I really did find myself watching every single second of Brad Pitt in this rewatch and being like, oh, his voice. voice works great. Ah, that suits great. I do think also

Clooney gets to play some version of this, this character in real life or in movies all the time. And then the Cerello commercials. Yeah. At Harry and Megan's wedding. Yes. And Brad Pitt somehow, despite being extremely cool and handsome, doesn't get this role and this opportunity that often. So I think long term it's good for him and his his legend. He's an astonishing sidekick. And I never would have guessed it. because he's obviously, he's, you know, he's like the guy who has to do meet Joe Black. He has to be in every scene and every shot and carry all the drama of a movie.

And to see him just sort of be able to, like, stand off to the side and, you know, keep busy eating snacks and make good one-liners. It's just great. I think he won the movie easily for me. It's George Clooney. Here's why. Okay. There's a very specific reason.

This is his biggest hit ever, with the exception of gravity, which I would say does not really need George Clooney. True. It's also the only real franchise that he has been a part of and sort of profligated. Like he was in a Batman movie, but people want to forget about that. And he has somehow managed to be one of the most famous people in the world for the last 25 years, despite not doing a lot of the things that people have to do to stay famous and stay huge as movie stars. This was the only time he was like, you know what, I'm going to lean right into this. I'm going to lean into the center of my celebrity.

Sure. And it worked. And the movie does not work if it's not him. him right at the center. I like your argument. I like your argument there. Because it is true that one thing that's sort of strange about Clooney is after a certain point in the 2000s, there's not a lot of there there.

There's not a lot of, there's not a ton after Michael Clayton of like performances where you're like, that's a signature George Clooney performance. Well, he found love. So he's fine. Okay. Thank you to Sean, Amanda and Juliet for joining me for this episode of The Rwatchables. Make sure you check us out next week where I think we are going to Jurassic Park. You know,