The Rewatchables - ‘Out of Sight’ With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, and Bill Lawrence

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo and screenwriter and producer Bill Lawrence hop in the trunk with Jack Foley and Karen Sisco to rewatch Steven Soderbergh’s 1998 film ‘Out of Sight,�� starring George Clooney, Jennifer Lopez, and Ving Rhames. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wow, you need to relax. I need a knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today. On Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. We're also brought to you by the ringer.com and the ringer podcast network. If you love the rewatchables, we have almost, I think over 175 rewatchables episodes at this point. They are all available only on Spotify. You can check out the last 60 days is available on any platform.

But everything we've ever done dated back to 2017, a lot of awesome movies. Go to Spotify. You can also listen to us at 1.2 speed. A lot of people have said over the years, that's my... best speed one point two that's that's the best speed to listen to me um coming up this is the dumbest fucking shakedown and the history of dumb shakedowns out of sight is next a cop a robber is your first time being around doing great they were made for each other sure easy to talk to but sometimes your career wear one of these i don't ski can kill a relationship

Turn around and get your hands up. Hey, hey, hey, putting holes in your car. George Clooney, Jennifer Lopez, Bing Rames, and Albert Brooks. She's surprised what you can get asked for it the right way. Out of sight. This film is not yet great. It starts June 26th. All right, Ryan Rucill is here.

Bill Lawrence is here. We gave him a present. We gave him a rewatchable's invite as a thank you for being involved with Ted Lassow, which was one of my favorite shows of 2019. And it was like a slow burn, right? It just kind of built and built and built. And more and more people are just like, I really like this show.

And then it just kind of kept going. But, you know, the most fun for me is I think it's the first time I've had a successful show that social media has been a huge thing. I'm that old. And so now that kind of weird snowball effect when you get to turn on your phone and see, you know, just odd figures from your sports, entertainment, whatever past, going, hey, I love this Ted Lassow. It's been awesome, man.

I'm so grateful for it. It's been definitely a weird slow build. So I'm sure we just thought we were making it for our friends and families because Apple didn't even exist really as a streaming site, you know? Well, congratulations. I know Rosillo hates the show, but I think most people love it. Have you seen it, Ricillo? Yeah, I mean, some of the decisions, but we do that at the end, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, when you guys do a TV rewatchables thing, you can just tear it apart. We were looking for an excuse to bring on the rewatchables. I gave you the choice. I said, mail me some movies you want to do. And one of the movies was Out of Sight, which is one of my favorites, which is just a fucking banger of a movie. It came out in 1998.

What was your main reason that you wanted to do this? I'll tell you my main reason, man, is I live in, at least in movies, in Guy Comedy. You know, I just always have. And out of sight has two things. It was one. It was one of those, it sounds corny. It's one of those movies.

It's a couple sweet spot. You're watching essentially, you know, a James Garland. version of a romantic comedy, you know, and yet you still feel like a cool guy watching it. My wife digs on this movie. You know, she absolutely loves it. And then the second reason was I didn't grow up like an autore, like a lot of these guys. And it's the first movie that I remembered noticing like the stylistically it was cool.

Do you know what I mean? And it had, you know, whether it was these weird freeze frames or how Florida was like orange. And then Detroit was all blue and cold and stuff. And I remembered finally like a light bulb going off that all these. you know, real directors and real kind of visionaries kind of see in their heads as the first time I really noticed it. And so it really meant a lot to me when I saw it first time. What about you, Riscilla? You know, it was still Clooney breaking out of the ER thing for me because, you know, it was right after it was the first year, you know, I graduated college and ER was part of the

Thursday night routine. And, and, you know, I know both of you guys can relate to this. It was such a weird thing back then as the TV star would make the movie jump and how many times they failed. You're like, up, this guy's trying to do it. You're like, okay, here we go. And then it's like, you can't just do the thing that you do. And now you get it, you know, there's a little bit more depth to it. And then the fact that J-Lo comes in with, you know, like, what's really going to happen here? And she crushes it.

So I think Bill Lawrence, it's good because I remember it being the kind of movie you could trick your girlfriend or wife into watching because it was, oh, yeah, we're going to watch this thing. And they wanted to watch it because of J-Lo. And the Elmore Leonard part was big for me because I'd read a couple of his books when I was younger. I did really like the way they executed Get Shorty. So it had all of these boxes that it was checking. So I had a different kind of anticipation for this at the time. You know, it's far beyond anything now.

But it was definitely one of those movies where I felt like I was looking forward to it in a way because I was expecting to be a little bit different. And it had all of that. Well, there's four big picture things that we got unwrap before we get to the categories. Because this is such an influential movie and it's an important movie. When it came out, what it meant. we'll start with Clooney though

because the thing you mentioned about the TV star breaking into movies and basically making that crossover you know Travolta was the one going back to the 70s when he gets signed to a three picture deal by Robert Stigwood first one Saturday Night Fever second one's Greece and when that happens people are like

holy shit TV state and then other people try a fair faucet doesn't work out and that basically goes on through the 80s in the 90s, and there's a lot of mixed results. Mostly bad results. Mostly bad. Caruso was a great example. Caruso left NYPD Blue, and people were furious.

It was like, this is one of the best parts on TV. Why are you leaving this? And he goes, he makes Jade. He makes kiss of death, which I defend. But for the most part, it made people mad. So going back to 94, ER is a phenomenon. And Bill, you're writing for friends, same year, which is also a phenomenon. And this was kind of the last time that new shows could be

cultural phenomenons with Super Bowl-style audiences. That whole night of TV, there were so many stars that come out of that. And as you're watching, you're like, wow, these people are going to be in my life for a long time. The people and friends, more importantly, Clooney. And it was so, Clooney was so good those first two seasons. And then you started thinking, all right, what is this? And then he starts making movies. He does dust to dawn. he does one fine day with Michelle Pfeiffer doesn't do very well he gets kind of crushed in the reviews a little bit but then he does Batman and Robin which was a reviled Batman movie

and then does the peacemaker with Nicole Kidman and the book on him is not a movie star doesn't have it he said four swings at this you were Bill when you were working on friends and the people on that show started making movies and it was this whole thing like can they make it can they not make it? I feel like that was unique to that era.

I don't think people think that way anymore. I got to tell you, man, I'm always tempted to go off on side trivia because it's one of the biggest conversations amongst TV men and women, the writers, you know, because we've watched it happen. And I didn't even know if it was come up, but one of my favorite ones was Ryan Reynolds, right? Remember two guys, a girl in a place?

And by the way, Ryan Reynolds was on Scrubs, and he was just as a guest star, he's a good dude. and our pass are all littered. Rarely now does somebody hit TV as a huge star like Clooney and then become a huge movie star. What you do see are these people, whether it's Jen Lawrence on some weird sitcom, that have small parts and then get out, you know what I mean? So they aren't known for their TV. But like my Ryan Reynolds one was I had him to be cast in a pilot just so it might not even work,

you know, for Fox. And I remember the president of the network at the time when I was like, I think I get Ryan Reynolds to do this. He's like, is that really what we want to see? Is another sitcom with Ryan Reynolds doing his kind of quick, you know, pithy jokes and wise-ass thing? And in my head, I was like, yeah, I think so. I think just no one's nailed it yet, you know? And then he went on to be a big movie star, you know.

But yeah, back then, everybody was waiting, especially like with the Friends cast, with any of the shows like that, is like, who's going to roll the dice and who's going to make it work? and I would like argue that some of the Friends cast actually pulled it off in their own way. I mean, Jen Aniston's still in features, you know, every six months or so. But you don't see it the same way now because the gap between TV and films has gone away. When it used to be like, I'm going to do TV, but boy, I'd love to do movies. Now a lot of people think these streaming TV shows are just as good as, you know, as movies unless you're doing a big superhero movie or something, you know. Well, you also had that with Zach Braff because when he did Garden State,

it was like, the dude from Scrubs wrote an indie movie? Yeah, it was very weird. And Natalie Portman's in it? And then it turned out to be a really good movie. But I feel like that was the last era. Because even if you think about like how I met your mother would have been the 2000s example of this. And Jason Siegel was able to go on and make movies pretty much immediately. But he was kind of straddling the Apatow universe at the same time he was doing that show.

For the most part, it didn't become the same kind of launching pad, partly because I just feel like the audiences started to get smaller and smaller for TV. And I think you make a key point. Sometimes now the streaming TV shows would be more important than being in a movie. Like, Riscilla, if you could be a star in a good movie or an awesome streaming TV show, what would you pick? I think I would pick the TV show. Yeah, I mean, it is. I mean, Bill can speak to this better than either of us can, but I'm always surprised, like, whatever feedback I get on different things where they'll be like, actors and actresses are dying to be on the next breakout HBO thing.

way more because the movie part of this, as we've touched on, we talked about Ben Fritz's book and Lawrence, you just, it's so hard to get any movies made anymore that I also think the industry has pushed it. It's not just an artist's taste thing. I think there's just a lot of actors and actresses that go, you know what? Like, it's probably more likely. It's a better bet to go ahead and do this, especially when you think about, you know, I wouldn't call out of sight. It's not some indie movie, but it's not a superhero movie. It's not a horror movie. It's, it doesn't fit these perfect genres. And those movies just don't get made that much anymore. So I think the industries influence those decisions as much as just an actor's choice. Yeah. Yeah, it's the rules, too.

You guys got to realize that when you used to do a TV show, you'd sign a contract that said, I'm stuck here for five years. I'm doing 22 episodes a year. Now, because of these big pieces of talent, they go, Jason had to Sadecas had to commit to two seasons. That's it of 10 episodes each. And he's allowed to do whatever he wants in the interim. And then if it goes longer, than that it was up to him. You know what I mean? And that is such a different landscape for, you know, the Clooney's and Matt Damon's and whoever's of the world.

You know, it's not an obligation that goes, oh, this is what I am as an actor or actress for the next 10 years, you know? The other problem with this is if the TV character is so iconic and indelible, it becomes hard for the actor to break out of that in movies. I thought that happened to Matthew Perry. I thought Chandler was such like an iconic character. It became hard for him to be in a movie. where it didn't, you just were expecting to be Chandler.

I thought it happened to John Hamm. Yeah, John Hamm, same thing, where it's like, Don Draper was such a distinct character. It was weird to see him in the town as an FBI agent. You know, he's like, oh, that's Don Draper. And they got to break out of that. I think the reason I'm bringing that up with Clooney, Doug Ross was just an awesome character. I really think that's one of the best TV characters of the last 30 years.

That's like everything you would want from your leading man in a TV show, right? He's got the fear of commitment with women. He's kind of heroic. He's kind of a fuck up. He's all over the map. He's handsome. He can get himself out of any situation. And it was kind of weird to see him in movies because he had the Doug Ross hangover.

He breaks out of it in this. And, you know, in that first scene, which I didn't have as a most rewatchable scene, but I think it's an important scene. He just feels like a movie star in the scene when he's robbing that bank, right? And he's got no gun. He's just smiling at the teller. and he's convoiced, see that guy over there with the briefcase, and he does that whole thing.

That's like a movie star scene. There's only seven, eight people, I feel like, from the last 30 years who pulled that scene off. You know what I mean? It's such a big mention for me, and I'm only interrupted because it's what I should have said it. It's what drove me to this is we all like to say they don't make movies like this anymore. And you maybe sums it up, there's only seven or eight guys that can do it.

I miss those movies, you know, like I'm still, my goal in my own career is. trying to get some kind of version. It's why I like Carl Hyacin and Elmore Leonard books and stuff of James Garner, Robert Redford, those guys that can do an opening scene of talking to a bank teller and you're just watching like this going, oh, it's an alpha guy, yet he's still humane. And I want to watch him do whatever he's doing in this movie. And it doesn't exist anymore. You know, there's like this kind of weird asexual dude for a while.

And then it kind of became stoner dudes or funny dudes. But this, the guy, I crissue. I crave it, man. I know. Superhero's the only version, right? I mean, now we're close to the same age. Riscilla's a little younger than us. But Rissila, like, Bert Reynolds, what did he mean to you? Because to me, this was a Burt Reynolds part.

Bert Reynolds would have these movies in the late 70s, early 80s, when it was basically like a Burt Reynolds charisma movie. You know, like starting over, which I think is a really underrated Boston movie. He's a guy who's dating Candace Bergen and Joe Kleberg at the same time. it's kind of not a lot happens in the movie. I'm not even sure why they made it, but it's really good. And one of the reasons it's good is he's just a movie star.

And it's like you're just buying this dumb journey he takes. But do you remember those Bert Reynolds movies for sell? Because this reminds me of a Bert Reynolds part. Yeah, because you were rooting for the bad guy, which is what you're doing here with Clooney too. Yeah. A lot of times with Burr, and I always think there's a bit to it in the way, you know, you introduce a character.

I've always felt like the audience kind of buys into the first person they're introduced to. And then, you know, you can trick him and be like, like, hey, you're actually rooting for the bad guy. But with Elmore Leonard, he always protected the bad guys in his books. Like, the bad guys are people he still really liked. And there's different mechanisms that he uses, whether it's writing or the way they adapt the book where I think they do a good job, especially an out of sight where even though there's some bad dudes in this, he almost prevents the audience from learning how bad some of

those people are. So for Clooney to have that role. And I think, Bill, when you mention Redford, it is. It's this hypnotizing look where. I mean, I almost, look, I'll ask you guys this, the Clooney smile thing where Clooney has that look on his face, like he's going to say the sentence that he's going to say, but there's another sentence that he actually would rather say, but he doesn't say it. Every time I see Clooney's face, I think there's a different comment that he could make,

whether on camera or off camera, it's always feels like there's something else he's thinking about saying, but he doesn't. That's his face. And because this is early in the movie side, I wondered if anybody was like, look, we love you, man. And that smile is just a magic trick. But you're like, there's a little fucking extra Clooney that we're at like an 11. We need to be at a 10 because that smile is out of the gate all over the place. And it ends up becoming kind of his move throughout his career.

And it just works. And the research for this, Soderberg actually kind of tone that down a little bit. And Clooney talks about like, Clooney had this one move where he would like lower his head and do the smile. And Soderberg's like tone that back a little bit, man. And you're going, it's almost like you're going to the crossover too much. Maybe just shoot a pull-up. And Clooney said it really helped him. It made him think like I need to be more careful with my moves, basically.

That's what I was going to say, I really thought, right, and I don't mean this jokingly, when you're like, he does this smile and you think he's going to say something else. And I really thought you're going to go, and it just makes me melt. I almost did. I almost did. I was made for that, too. Yeah. So the Clooney background of the bad.

luck he had, I think he's the most famous bad luck Hollywood story where he was on Facts of Life, he's got the bad hair, he auditioned five times for the Brad Pitt part, Thelma Louise, they gave it to Brad Pitt. He made all of these pilots and different things that never really made it,

could never get over the hump, and then ER happens, and like everybody else on that show, he became this famous dude, but could not get over the hump. Soderberg saw something in him. Then Clooney, he says, he loved bank robbers in movies. He said, quote, the Cagneys, the Bogarts, Steve McQueen, all those guys.

The guys that were kind of bad. You still rooted for them. When I read this, I thought this guy's robbing a bank, but you really want him to get away with it. And it's funny because he plays a version of this guy like 10 times over the course of his career. Like, he just loves this guy. So I wasn't surprised Coulini became a huge movie star because if you watched the ER, you knew it was there. The J-Lo piece of this. Oh, my goodness. She's so fucking amazing in this movie. And if you knew nothing, if you were in, if you lived on a desert island for the last 22 years and you came out of it and then you showed somebody this movie and you were like this movie came out in 1998, they would assume JLo became one of the biggest actresses in the world. Why that didn't happen as complicated. Like she had a music career.

She had kids. She probably had some bad scripts. She got pigeonholed by the rom-com thing. But Bill, when I watch this, I just feel like there's this potential for her career as a kid. an actress that we never got to. It's frustrating. I want to be careful because I don't think it's a product of the actress of the person, but never before for me have I seen an actress or actor in one movie and compared that like in a chart in my head to what I think of them maybe in the most recent thing I saw them in. And it is so polar opposites. I didn't know who she was when I saw that movie.

And I was in my head, I was like, wow, that is going to be a sexy, bad. Badass, can do banter, female giant movie star for years. You know what I mean? And then it was like a switch. I don't think there's ever been another even attempt to do what that version of her is. Yeah, I feel like Angelina Jolie maybe five years later would have had try to be inside. She tried to do to Mr. and Mrs. Smith, basically. But the thing with J-Lo, she was in Money Train with Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrelson, which I support.

I like Money Train. She was in Salina, which was a monster movie. then she's in this. And if you're buying like rookie cards for actors in the late 90s, like J-Lo's rookie card would have been skyrocketing. And then, you know, I don't... You know what's a tell, by the way?

It's a you got to look for... And by the way, it makes sure this doesn't come off as misogynistic. But the ability for actors and actresses that haven't done so to suddenly hold a gun and you believe it is really, really a weird barometer for this type of movie. You know, I mean, it's...

Even in TV shows, we've had the experience of, you know, someone going, oh, and then they have a gun and they have to go do this. And when they're holding it, you're like, oh, this isn't working. I just believed her, man. I believed her in that movie as a, I believe Jennifer Lopez as a marshal and a badass. Yeah, you know what I mean? I was like, wow, it was really cool. Yeah, and she's navigating men this whole movie.

The more times I've watched this, that theme strikes me the most, is like, it's basically her solving situations with men, which was a little atypical in the late 90s. But, you know, even that scene with Isaiah Washington when he tries to be threatened, she just kicks his ass and just on down the line. She's awesome. Riscilla, what are your J-Lo thoughts? I forgot how good she was in it because it's been a little while since I had seen it. And she's so good. I feel like you guys didn't give any love to the wedding planner, though.

So I just feel like we need to throw that out there. I like the wedding planner. Different. I like Made in Manhattan, too. Made in Manhattan. So. Shameless. The, there's, you know, the great thing about an Omar Leonard book is there's, there's very crisp, efficient writing.

You know, he doesn't want to waste. So you're always wondering, okay, like, how much can you pick up from that? And they do a really good job with it. The scene where she's in the hotel bar in Detroit is a cliche scene, but they nail it. And she's so believable. And they also do a great job of making her more believable, whether it's the father who's a cop, who's the father's key. Yeah. He's, you're like, okay, I got it.

Now I know who she is. And then the Michael Keaton thing, which I want Lawrence to expand on here because it's really cool. So you're like, okay, wait, she's already attracted to this kind of guy. So I think if you were to pitch this and you didn't have any source material or anything like that, it might be like, okay, you know, convince me that this is a believable relationship, convince me that this federal agent that takes it this seriously, that's in a law enforcement family, that she's actually going to spend the night with a bank robber and kind of be on his

his side for a bit. And then, you know, we'll worry about the end. But I've got to be able to buy in. and I've got to make that believable. And it's not just dialogue. It's not just backstory. It's also her. And it really, that thing is so delicate.

It could ruin the whole movie. It could ruin an entire story if it's not believable. And in this case, it's as believable as it could be. And a lot of it has to do with her. So she makes, she's making music and she's becoming an A-lister as this is all happening. This movie was successful, but it wasn't a smash hit or anything. She made the sell in 2000. She made enough in 2010.

and then she's dating Affleck at this point, and she makes G-Lee. I notice you haven't blamed Affleck for any of this. Well, and Jersey Girl. Well, I would argue this. I think from a career standpoint, that was one of the worst career relationships for both people, right?

Both people were in a way worse place after that was over, and I think for her, there's this short window here where she could have worked with a couple awesome directors and gone down that road. I don't think she probably was thinking that way. she might have just been thinking,

I want to be all of these different things at the same time. I think if she was just thinking as an actress, you'd maybe look at this and go, all right, why was I so good in that movie? Because I was with an awesome director. Who is the next awesome director I can work with? I don't think she thought that way,

but I thought she was great in hustlers, too. And people thought she was going to get nominated for that. This is the best role of her career. It's frustrating because I feel like you watch this and you're like, man, she had 10 more movies in her like this. and it just didn't happen. You guys got to tell me, too, by the way, I've listened to the show

and you aren't, and refreshingly aren't very name-droppy, but I'm always tempted because Cooney and I used to pal around in a cool way Ryan playing basketball because it's the Hollywood Y. And so I do have some, there's some fun inside stuff on this too. But I was just jumping back on my head went there because you were talking about how George had traveled this journey.

Yeah, to get from, and my favorite, I remember the story, at Hollywood Wise is going to make us both look like idiots. We both had the type of careers that we could play basketball on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at the Hollywood Y, which is not a good sign. You know, and I'm talking about. And we literally were in between games,

and we both just got in a gig, and we had this conversation that he goes, dude, my career is so kind of like just, you know, slow right now that I'm doing my second pilot called ER, because he was already in a sitcom called ER. like 12 years before starring Elliot Gould. Oh, wow. And I go,

my career is so lame. I just got hired on show, so generic. It's called Friends. And literally, we had that moment of us both dissing the jobs that we just got

knowing nothing about it. And then we didn't see each other again until I was at some premiere. I was at the premiere of that one with Nicole Kidman because it was a Warner Brothers movie and stuff. Do you know what I mean?

And it was so funny that he was, he literally is like, I've started cycling back through my previous failures. You know, it was, and so to see that dude hit it, you knew how grateful he was.

You know what I mean? To kind of land in that show and land in that. It was cool that he started talking about because it's one of the things I remember the most about being so psyched that this movie worked. I'm surprised you didn't catch up on the Friends ER crossover episode in season one. Remember when Doug Ross and Noel Wiley? Did they show up?

Double date with the Aniston and Cox? You remember that one, Riscilla? I know it was one of your favorites. That used to be a thing. I remember when I was doing Spin City, they called me up and they're like, hey, just so you know, at the end of Spin City, Mike Fox is going to be watching not Sports Center, this show called Sports Night, and it was literally on his TV, you know, in the little tag, and he's making a joke about it, then the screen just expanded to those guys.

That stuff all the time, man, it was so weird. I just want to make sure you don't hesitate at all about telling Clooney stories or name-dropping whatsoever. I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons we had you on here. But I'll just ask it because I think the audience would want to know it. I know a lot of times in the business, like you're not in the role of being like, this guy actually is an asshole or this guy sucks or total fraud or all that. But give us the Clooney Scouting Report as a guy as somebody that you were buddies with for a while.

All time, good guy. All time. Still, still a dude that, you know, I got to get closer to him again as an adult just because he, you know, he knew my wife too. And we got to spend some time. And now he's married with kids. He's going through, you know, what I went through a while ago with little ones and stuff. but a ball player a guy you want to drink a beer with

super loyal to his friends not remotely Hollywoody I know he was annoyed because he had to look like he sucked at basketball and out of sight and he's actually pretty good you know I was going to mention that yeah I had that as a note

you can tell he was tanking the basketball scenes he looked like James Harden trying to get traded I know that bothered him man because he's the type of guy you know I showed up once we were spent some time at his place said, I beat him in horse and casually we were just hanging around and it wasn't a big deal, but that became the theme of him just having to crush me in horse, you know, for the rest of he's

that, you know, he's that dude and watching him struggle in that game because he's supposed to be a little older and want to break out of jail, you know, and be tired. It's so fake. He's better. He's really, he's actually a real good ball player, legit, like starter on his high school team, fundamentally sound. It's him and Woody Harrelson, right? Those were the two, the two kind of best guys to play pickup with. But Woody, you know, Woody plays, I love Woody. He plays actor ball. And actor ball is, I must be the star of this pickup game if I'm a star of the TV show.

So if anybody gives it to me, I'm going to shoot. Do you know what I mean? And Riscilla loves this. I know. So he was, Woody. Well, you guys, by the way, just so you know, Ryan, the game basketball game that you came and played in was Gary Goldberg's own old basketball game. And it used to be Woody Harrelson and all the people from the Paramount lot because Gary started it.

And he's a good player, but if you give him the ball, you might as well just either go back on defense or go for a rebound. Doesn't matter when you give it to him. Do I mean, he is chucking it up. And George is just a fundamentally, you know, Kentucky grew up playing high school basketball, fundamentally sound. If you cut, you're going to get it. You know what I mean? If you pick and roll, you're going to get it. If you're scoring, he's going to feed you.

He's that guy. He's really solid. I had like two pages on just that scene. I didn't think we'd get to all of them. But it is funny because the game that Bill invited me to once, and we have a mutual friend that I go way back with who was Bill Callahan, who worked for you, work for you on Scrubs. He's like, all right, if you're going to play in this game,

this game is legendary. And I've mentioned that I'd played in it. And people were like, who was there? Who was there? I was like, well, I don't know. I think it's been a few years. So it was like, you know, like Bill's kid was dunking on us at the end of the game. Right.

So sad. Yeah, it's cluny when he was on ER. They used to sneak in basketball scenes there where they would just be like shooting hoops outside. And they always said like he had a whole set there. Anyway, we got to talk about Soderberg, but we're going to take a quick break and come back. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here. So celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors.

New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot. rose Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. All right. So we covered the Clooney impact with this movie we covered J-Lo. Soderberg's the other one where he comes out with sex lies and videotape, which

was just an incredible experience in the moment. I think it was 1990. I had never seen a movie like it in my life. I saw it in the theater. It was one of those. You kind of stumble out of the theater. Like, what the fuck just happened? And then it has this really spotty next seven, eight years where people think he's going to be the next great independent director.

Doesn't happen. People kind of give up on him after 90s. and then he realizes I need to make a movie that people will see. His quote was, it's a very conscious decision on my part to try and climb my way

out of the art house ghetto which can be as much a trap as making blockbuster films. He turned down a Charlie Coffin movie, Human Nature, to do this one and kind of realized, like, I need to do a cool movie

that people are going to see. And it was so exciting to see. this movie in 98 because I was really rooting he was one of those guys you're just rooting for you like it was a little like Noah Bomback was another one because I love kicking and screaming then it took a couple

years and then I forget what his next one were like oh he figured it out he's got it and it was the same thing here but Soderberg they always used to quote stylish with this movie this movie had a real style and this was an awesome era

95 96 97 98 there's a lot of cool movies a lot of direct coming up. A lot of people trying different things. And this movie really stood out. What stood out just for the directing with you, Bill? Oh, you look, man. It's so cool that you brought this up. It's going to make me, it's my only time I'm going to try and sound smart. One of the things I was most into about this was my favorite author. I love, like Ryan does, the Elmore Leonard's and the Carl Hyacons of the world, but my favorite author is John Irving, who wrote World According to Garp and Prayer for Owen Meaney and all these amazing books. And, uh, I,

I love the Sadaberg success story. And the reason I mentioned John Irving, not a lot of people know this, but so The World According to Garp, it made him a huge novelist. And it was, that guy was a guy that could not get going. He wrote four or five books before that.

No one's ever heard of. Water Method Man, 158-pound marriage about wrestling, all these weird books. And in the World According to Garp, Garp, the author, writes this book called the World According to Bessonhaver because he can't make any money.

So he writes a book in which there's sex, violence, you know, people with their tongues cut out, all the stuff that happens in the Garp. And he's doing it because he has to find a way to make a living. And Irving was essentially saying that World According to Garp was his effort to like, I got to make money. I can't just write books that 10 people buy. Do I mean?

And he became huge. And Soderberg, and it bought him the ability to do whatever he wanted with the rest of his career. And that to me is shaped my philosophy. me because I remember Steven Soderberg doing it. I was like you. I saw Sexilize and Videotape. And then he did these weird movies that I couldn't get a toehold in. You know what I mean? I wanted to be in, but I couldn't.

And I read that stuff that you were talking about. What's neat was he just went, do what you have to to do what you want to. And he did it and it worked. Do you know what I mean? And that to me, even when I go back and talk to writers at colleges or stuff like that, I say, that's the nature of television. You know, if you get on a show that you wouldn't watch, tough cookies, you're getting paid to write. you know, do what you have to to get to do what you want, you know, and I thought that was super, super cool that, you know, after that he still did some eclectic stuff, more eclectic than mainstream, but he got to do whatever the heck he wanted to do as an artist. I thought that was awesome.

Stylistically, you know, the freeze frames, I never noticed the use of color. You know, there's a, the Cohen brothers did these things like in Miller's Crossing. It's all earth tones and brown. But this was the first movie I noticed like, oh, when they're in Florida. warm. You know, when he gets out of prison and there in Florida, it's like warm and orange every scene. The hotel's orange. The lights orange. And then they got to go to Detroit, and it literally looks like you're in an animated blue movie that Mr. Freeze is going to show up. I thought that stuff was so cool,

you know? And I never think that way. You know, I think only people that really see things in their head visually and not just see dialogue can do that. I thought it's really amazing. Well, it sounds like you're in for the World of Cardin of Garper, we watchables whenever we do that, because I love that movie. And that book was amazing. And

You're right. That book set up everything else you want to do, but ironically became the first thing people think of when they think of John Irving. It was one of the most successful books of the 80s. What stood out to you, Rosillo? That it's really a prequel to the Ocean's 11 stuff, whether it's the music and the shots and, you know, the, you know, I think a lot of times whenever anybody's going like, hey, well, how many characters do you have? Like, oh, we've got the scene. You've got the X in Miami. We've got the jail people. We've got. We've got the jail people. We've got J-Lo side of this thing. We've got the other people chasing them.

And then we've got the Snoop, the Don Cheatel. Like, there's a lot of moving parts here. But when you nail all of the storylines with all these, it keeps it so fresh. It moves. I mean, this movie, we're 15 minutes in. We already know a backstory because of the time jumping of the bank. So we got a bank robbery minute one after he's mad leaving a building and we don't know why. So now we're in.

Yeah. I mean, we're breaking out of jail and the J-Lo's seat is planted 15 minutes in. I mean, this thing is amazing because you'd be, you know, just a few pages in and you're like, what are we like, we're already there. Like, it's a great start. And I think that that's something that Soderberg has done well in all of his movies. And you can see all the things that he wants to do. It's almost like he's sampling them in this.

And the music part of it is huge because it just sounded different. It looked different. People have to understand like in 1998, this was a big deal and that it was also commercial too. You know, I still love the movie Zero Effect. It's one of my favorite movies ever with Ben Stiller. And it was just different and odd. And the music was part of that. But like, we just didn't get a lot of the movies like this.

Not to say they weren't being made, but they weren't that popular. And I just, I love the way he did. There's a few. I mean, look, you can laugh. But Magic Mike has a tone of Northern Florida male stripper world that is perfect. Like, you think you're hanging out with these guys in that movie because he nails that whole vibe so perfectly that I think you see all those things when you go back and watch this one from him. I had him on a podcast at Sundance either last year. I think it was last year,

actually. So you're a good dude? I'm hoping he's a good dude. I'm making him really good dude. And it was a good dude. And it was really fun to talk to him about his career. But this was, you know, I think on the pod we talked about how this was the moment when he realized what was possible for his career, right? and you look at what he's done the last 22 years, he's one of the directors that I just really appreciate because he'll do stuff. He'll do, like we always joke about it,

the rewatchable. Sometimes we do a one for us, where it's just like a movie that we like. We don't really care if people are going to listen to the podcast. Like the zero effect. I haven't heard that reference in forever, man. Well, he'll just do movies that he knows, like the girlfriend experiment.

That movie wasn't going to make $200 million, dollars, but he'll do stuff, like the Netflix thing he did last year about the NBA agent. And then he'll weave in like the Oceans 11. And he's just, or the magic mic were the movies that have the big potential. What was the Lucky Logan? Lucky Logan was another one that was like, that was a really weird movie. I kind of liked it. It wasn't a movie that was going to make $200 because it was too weird.

But that was, I think, what attracted him to it. $200 million. He did Siriana as well, right? Yeah, I think he's had, he's found the right mix of when to do this, when to do this, when to zag back, when to zig, and he just couldn't figure out in the 90s. So, you know, you look at the mid-90s, Paul Thomas Anderson, Fincher, Soderberg, all of these dudes come out of this 94 to 98 rage and basically become the next generation. I knew you're going to say he's a good guy because there's one thing that I've started to notice

and emulate as a good sign when big-time actors and actresses, go out of their way to work with the same director again and again. Do you know what I mean? That's such a... I mean, it's so weird. First of all, it's such a clue that, oh, that dude or that woman is an outstanding person because, you know, no one wants to spend, you know, doing a movie or TV shows like being at Thanksgiving with your family for three months at a time.

You know what I mean? Which could be great, but it can also be awful if we all have that crazy uncle or crazy aunt, you know? But also, it translates to the work because... when he's doing movies like Ocean's 11, what you guys talk about or even Magic Mike, where people are supposed to immediately come off as buddies and friends, it works when they're in the type of environment

that they're digging the people that they're working with and have pre-existing relationships. You know what I mean? So I think that stuff is always makes movies, sometimes TV shows so much richer, you know? And the other thing with him, that's a good point. The other thing with him is he's just good at casting. He's good at recognizing talent.

And I think one of the legacies of this movie is all the, people that are in it. It's a fucking murders row. Clooney J-Lo, Ving Rames, Don Cheadle. One of like the three best Don Cheadle performances. Michael Keaton, which we'll get into a little bit. Dennis Farina, icon for anyone who loved Miami Vice and all those shows. Steve Zahn, Albert Brooks, Catherine Keener, Louise Guzman, Paul Calderon, who when Tarantino was on the rewatchable's last year, was saying how he thought he was like the most underrated guy from that decade. Viola Davis, Sam Jackson. I didn't realize Viola Davis was even in it until I did the rewatch for you guys.

Yeah. And she was awesome. And then he even grabbed Nancy Allen as the maid, who was early 80s dressed to kill all those movies. He was just always really good at casting. Oscar nominations, adapted screenplay and editing did not win for either. But you want to just talk about Elmore Leonard really quick? Go, Riscilla. You know, this is going to sound really stupid, but I remember.

I remember, I remember, like, judging a book by its cover, totally. And, you know, young kid, high school and his Elmore Leonard covers, I was like, oh, this looks interesting. And it was stupid. And it was like, rum punch, I think I read. And then I read, I was like, this is, wait, I was like, dude, is this guy popular? He's really, I seem to like him. Like, yes.

Yes, he is popular. I don't, you know, I think, Rob Harvila, that's, it's guy. Rob Arvilla, yeah. Yeah, Harvilla, sorry. he did a really cool piece just talking about Leonard that I was that what I was reading as well and you know it's it's the high stuff that we all seem to like I mean look we're pretty predictable as consumers there's things that we like and there's things that keep being made over and over again and uh Leonard's built an entire empire on these these quirky characters in different locations

and I don't I don't know what it is like you just it was fun it wasn't complicated it wasn't hard to read. He wasn't trying to impress you, but he just was great at getting you to buy into all of the characters. And that's why I think, you know, there have been times where whatever's been adapted from him, it's not like everything's worked, you know, there's been other stuff that hasn't worked. But I just thought he was clever. And, you know, look, I'm not being all that profound about describing him as an author. He's just awesome at it. And I just very early on realized, okay, I really like this guy's books. This was the run of, it was get shorty, Jackie Brown. in this movie all in four or five years.

Have you ever tried to adapt a screenplay, Bill? Yeah, I was going to say, look, it's shaped this movie. I mean, I'm talking too personally about it, but it shaped my career a little bit. Like Ryan, I saw the movie first before I knew the books, and I started reading the books, right? And then they were everywhere, and I realized I'm never going to be the guy

that gets to turn one of these books into a movie. or a TV show. And my dad said, if you like him, one of his buddies and they were friends in real life is this guy named Carl Hyacin, you know, who's written all these skinny dip and Taurus season and Bad Monkey. And I would say right now, if you like Elmore Leonard, you love Carl Hyacin. And what's so hard about adapting their books into movies at the time, and I don't know how Soderberg did it, was they all have, think of another movie that has so many characters.

It's why you can say there's great casting. They're not just like two leads and everybody else gives exposition. There's like 10 characters with their own journey. Steve Zahn is in his own movie in this movie. He's got another feature in this feature, right? And so all these overlapping circles are so hard to execute. And Carl got ripped off. It's such a bummer of a story because Carl got romance when Elmore Leonard got huge.

Like, hey, your books are huge bestsellers too. Let's bring them. And Andrew Bergman was writing the screenplay. of one of his bestsellers. And it was another one of those things with multiple characters across multiple books. And at the last second,

the studio panicked and cast to me more to play the lead. And she wasn't really the lead in the book. And the book was called Strip Tees. And he literally went from going, oh, I'm so proud of this, to just hating it and just left Hollywood back to Montana.

And I've gotten to know him in the last five years. And I'm trying so hard to adapt one of his books It's called Bad Monkey, and it's the same vibe of this stuff. And finally, I'm getting to make it eventually at Apple, which is going to be super fun. So it's been taking me this while. Wow, that was, what a great ending to that.

That's exciting. And by the way, when you talk about fate lining up, not to get political or weird, but Carl, he's still hitting bestsellers. He's an older guy, but he had just a bad run because his brother was one of the three journalists that got assassinated at that newspaper in Washington by that Trump crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And so Carl ended up suddenly taking over his brother's family a little bit and kind of really just had a bad chunk of time in his life. And I'm doing, I don't even care if it works as long as Carl has a great experience. Because you guys know with athletes, was getting to work, shoot the shit with and have a beer with one of your icons is been the best.

And it all started with out of sight. That's awesome. To Carl Heist into this. Wow. He's awesome, by the way. One of the things with these, those three movies that I mentioned, the Get Shorty, Jackie Brown, and this movie, that really was authentic to Elmore Leonard was just how quirky and goofy the side characters were, right? They were bad guys, but they all had their own thing. And this something Pulp Fiction tried.

Tarantino was obsessed with this. But then you think of all the movies in the 90s that tried to do this and bomb? It's such a hard needle to thread where it's like, yeah, they're bad guys, but they're also kind of goofy. And it's like, ah, this sucks. And that's one of the reasons I appreciate this movie. It's like, the Steve Zahn character in the wrong hands completely derails the movie. You're just like, this sucks. You have like Anthony Michael Hall with sunglasses on trying to do some whatever.

And it's like, this is going sideways. You're ruining the movie. And in this, everything's additive. You look at you like, wait, is Steve Zon doing a stoner in the middle of this with a headbanded shades? Then they said, okay, it's insane. I can't believe it works. works. And same thing with Isaiah Washington, who's like, I'm not just going to be a bad guy. I'm going to be a complete threat to every woman in this movie. Like, I'm going to be this

menacing, horrible, I'm so over the top. And it works because you're just like, oh, my God, I'm so terrified of this guy. I think it's the best performance of his career. By the way, and I had forgotten, I don't know if it's just was in the script or whatever, but it's like, oh, and he's a fireman. Wait, what? right yeah yeah he's constantly I gotta ask this I mean you know whatever whatever order we're going in here are we led to believe that at the end of the movie

when they break into the house that the woman ends up falling for him I had this an unanswerable questions there's a weird vibe there's a very very weird vibe that takes a quick turn yeah it's it's we'll tackle that later this movie

48 million dollar budget made 77 million Roger Ebert, three and a half stars, said, quote, Clooney has never been better. A lot of actors who are handsome when young need to put on some miles before the full flavor emerges. Here Clooney at last looks like a big screen star. It's interesting. Once his hair started to get a little tiny bit gray, white,

just a little bit, a touch of it, and he looked a little older. That was when his career took off. All right, we're going to do the categories. Most rewatchable scene. Here are the candidates. the trunk scene, which is going to win. Snoopy shakes down Albert Brooks's character, Ripley. It's crazy that Albert Brooks is in this movie.

We didn't even mention it. Clooney calls him out on it, and that whole thing that ends with Snoopy killing the goldfish. Riscilla, you're a writer. That scene, that scene is amazing. That four minute, the way it's constructed, the beginning, middle end of it, everything Clooney does in it, how he beats the guy, how the guard comes in and they have. have to pretend they're just hanging out and the goldfish kill. Pretty good scene. Yeah, I mean, obviously Simmons is like not being a screenwriter in this conversation.

The fact you picked up on that. Yeah, I feel left out. Yeah, I feel left out. There's no question. You picked up on that's incredible. Two screenwriters at me. It's fine. I love the ending because it's so mean. It's just so mean. Like he could have just slapped Brooks. You know, Clooney, you figure maybe he loses in that altercation. You know, the first time you're trying to, you know, hey, who's going to be the hero of the scene and all this different stuff? But it's crushing, like bringing goldfish in a bag to another prisoner and then shaking him down and charging him not two grand, but now three grand. And the dialogue of Clooney being like, hey, Brooks, you're a mark because we already know you are.

But if they kill you, they're not going to get any money. If he beats you up, you're going to get transferred somewhere else. So like, you're going to understand your role in this. So he's giving him this amazing prison education in just a minute. And then Cheetos's like, fuck you. both and crushes the goldfish in his hand and then dumps crushed goldfish in water into Brooks a book's hand it's a perfect perfect scene 500 bucks for a pillow that's right it does seem a little high doesn't it shut up dick it's a nice pillow for goose down but you still how much for your

company a chow my company come on man you know i watch this motherfucker's bat i bet how much that's a C-note you're smart ripple you'll tell his guy to fuck off really Oh, I, I don't know. First of all, if he kills you, and he's gonna get nothing. Well, uh, the man don't just have to die, Foley. I mean, he could accidentally hurt himself falling down on something real hard, you know, like a Shiv or my dick. If he falls on anything, Snoop, then they're gonna transfer his ass out of your fashion

you can throw a fight, and you're still gonna get nothing. You know, last time I checked, man, this shit over here has got nothing to do with you, Foley? Why don't you go outside, man? a cigarette or some shit. I want to smoke. It is almost, it was the only other scene that I mentioned, because my favorite movies of this genre, do these little signposts to remind you

that even though you're enjoying the ride that one of these characters is just bad and killing the fish. I always thought that Midnight Run worked because at the end, Dennis Freena puts Charles Groden in the car, Dennis Freene again, and goes, just want you to know you're going to die tonight. And I'm going to kill your wife.

Fucking kids. And then I'm going to have a nice fucking meal. You know what I mean? And those are the moments you're like, oh, do you? And it makes somebody an actual threat and gives the movie actual stakes. Because, you know, otherwise, that guy could have just been a goofy, you know, who cares? Don Chito's being real funny and he's kind of dark. I thought that scene really, really kind of gave jeopardy to the whole thing.

Well, what's crazy is Cheeto shank somebody earlier after he throws the fight and the guy starts bragging about it. He does the kidney shank. But it wasn't until he kills the goldfish where I'm like, oh, bad guy. Yeah, because I was on his side in the shanking. Yeah, the shanking. I was like, if you throw a fight, right. That's just prison.

That's just prison. That's just prison. One other thing I love about this scene is Albert Brooks, his performance in this scene where it's almost like he's working behind the counter at a pawn shop. And somebody's like, how about 65 for the watch? Oh, you're shaking me down. But meanwhile, he's doing goldfish.

Getting his wallet out. The whole scene's great. Especially real quick, too. Cheeto, I imagine, purposely mispronouncing Bauschen Lom, where he was like, yeah, motherfucking Bowshin-Lom, whatever. And then Brooks is like, I need it. I need it. It was great comedy that wasn't written to be funny, you know?

Next rewatchable scene. This isn't going to win, but we should mention the Michael Keaton's one scene. She fixes in pork chops and rice. The next thing you know, they're making love on the sofa. She says he was very gentle. This guy, Chirino, shows up at the house, says he misses a little girl. She feels sorry for him. Next thing, you know, boom, you know, on the couch.

That's how you score now, huh? I guess. Well, there's something I've been wondering. Tarantino gives them permission to use Michael Keaton's Jackie Brown character in this movie for one scene just because he loved the idea of a movie crossover. This is something people who have heard this podcast. No, I'm very passionate about. I'm passionate about characters cross over.

movies. I don't know why it doesn't happen more often. You also have Clooney calling in this scene and having a little back and forth with J-Lo. And most important, J-Lo in the Marino jersey. Miami Dolphins, baby. Oh, man. She just looks great. It's such a, it's such a, Marino never won a Super Bowl. To me, this was his Super Bowl. J-Lo in the Marino Jersey for five minutes. I feel like this is almost as good as a ring. True question. Right now, do you think if we could reach Jennifer Lopez right now and said who wore number 13 on the Mamie Dolphins that she could answer. Well, she was from, wasn't she from Florida though?

I think she might have been. I think she would. I don't know. I think she would. Jenny from the block? I don't know about it. Look, I'm not going to lie. No, she ended up in Florida with Mark Anthony, though.

She had to know who Marino was. I would hope so. I looked at her Instagram page at different times. I was like, man. and then so I'll just leave it at that. 140 million followers. That's a lot. Wow.

Next scene. Oh, what's quickly the Keaton thing? The Keaton thing's awesome. You love the cross. So you're with me. You love crossovers. I do it.

All right. So I put every single actor and actress from every one of my shows on the next show. I just think it's so funny, you know, and I usually try. I even did Dan Harmon. I was doing the show called Cougartown while Dan Harmon was doing community. And then on community,

he had one of his characters. just because he was fucking around. Abed said that he was obsessed with Cougar Town and that over the summer break he went and was an extra on the show. So I immediately, we didn't ask permission, called Dan up and he set Danny Poody over to our show and he was an extra and actually did

exactly what he said he did in their previous episode. We never said anything. And by the way, there's very few simultaneously Cougar Town and community fans. So only 200 people notice tops. I love that stuff. You know, I absolutely love it. And Keaton had a quote about it because he said, I just always, he said something like,

I was always tickled as an actor that the, if you do something like that, there's a chance that some people just will start to process that maybe that guy is just a cop that I might run into someday. You know, if I'm ever in Florida, you know, and outside of a coffee place, I'll see that guy in his gear going to work. And he just said, he didn't even take money for it. He was so into the idea of it. And Bill, you told me, I didn't know that Tarantino had to, hit up because there's two different studios. So this stuff never happens that Tarantino had to hit up

and say, no, this is okay. You can't charge them for it. You just have to let it happen. But it's also cool because, you know, Omar Leonard, he does that with characters, so does Carl Heison. Different people from previous books peek up and two books later. It's like a Vonnegut thing

where you're like, oh, that guy, you know? Yeah, I just kill. And by the way, and one of Keaton's choices slays me, and it only works if you've seen Jack Brown. So it is when Dennis Farina is essentially threatening her daughter's boyfriend because he's married and cheating on his wife. And instead of feeling chastised, Keaton laughs. He laughs an uncomfortable laugh. But that's the guy he's played in Jackie Brown, you know, just like an unrepentantant,

you know, kind of dick. And I found it. I found it. I think you would be baffled a little if you had not seen Jackie Brown to go, is that Batman? Is this the only movie that two Batman's are in? and that other Batman just has like five lines and leaves. This is very weird. It killed me. Riscilla, what's your favorite crossover ever? Because I have one that's by far my favorite. Wasn't there a Facts of Life different strokes thing once?

What was it? I just, I remember, I thought I remember back in the day those sitcoms or somebody would like just show up on somebody else. Mrs. Garrett was the maid on different strokes and she became the Facts of Life lady. Spinoff. She wanted to do something, give back. the community a little bit more. My favorite show of all time is the White Shadow.

And it ended abruptly after a disastrous third season. And then the guy who did the White Shadow, Bruce Paltrow, he created St. Elsewhere. And he had Coolidge from the White Shadow as a janitor in St. Elsewhere playing himself. So it was like Coolidge, who was the star of Carver High and the White Shadow, who was supposed to, like, go to college. and maybe playing the NBA, gets a knee injury. Now he's just a janitor at this hospital in Boston.

And they have this scene. And I remember being so excited when it happened. He's in the elevator. Salami, the guy who plays salami, Timothy Van Patten, who becomes a famous director.

Bill Lawrence knows what I'm talking about. He goes in and Coolidge gets all excited and goes, Salami. And Salami looks at him and goes, I don't know what you're talking about, man. And it's just like awkward elevator

because he's playing a different character. And they step that in. And I was one of the 10 people and I was watching it. It would happen. I'm like, that was for me. That was a shoutout for me. It made me so happy. Dude, there's a, what was it?

Thorpe 5'9 waiting for a growth spur. I'm a huge white shadow guy, man. Next, next rewatch will see in the hotel bar scene, which is a famous scene, the Gary and Celeste scene. It does a lot of cool stuff. I don't know if it rips off a Donald Suther in the movie or pays homage to it. It does the don't look now. with Donald Sardotelo and Julie Christie, where it goes back and forth

between the sex scene and the foreplayed of the sex scene. It's shot amazingly. It's really indelibly, there's some images in it that you just can kind of see in your head even after you see the movie. And then Clooney has that speech,

which I'm not going to read. We'll just play that ends up with, you know, what if I had said something? What if, what if it may only happen a few times in your life. But it's like every actor is dying for one monologue like that. And that's about as good as it's going to get.

Well, does this make any sense to you? It doesn't have to. It's something that happens. It's like seeing someone for the first time. Like, you could be passing on the street. And you look at each other, and for a few seconds, there's this kind of a recognition. Like, you both know something.

The next moment the person is gone. And it's too late to do anything about it. And you always remember it because it was there and you let it go. And you think to yourself, what if I had stopped? What if I had said something? What if? What if?

Only happened a few times of your life. Or once. I love that scene. What do you guys think of that scene? Detroit was just glowing in the background, which you didn't really expect. They make Detroit look amazing. I think it's kind of cool that they have

the losers from New York City come over and hit on her and take turns. And those guys are great. Those guys are great at being completely uninteresting, totally predictable, because then it's a perfect version of like Clooney coming in as the hero. So without that setup, the Clooney thing's still worth. works. The monologue's still there, but I just think it makes it better. And there's also some parts of it where,

you know, it's picked up straight from the book. And essentially, you know, this is a, I like the lines that aren't trying to be great lines, you know? Like there was, there was some line that I was looking at the other day where it was like, somebody was like, oh, why did somebody do this? And it was, you could tell the way the second line was written was only to show off. Like the first line was the set up to show up with the second line. And Omar Leonard, I don't think really did that. And they adapt that part of that conversation really well. And there's that one thing that I think stands out that I think anyone can relate to is just where he's essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here, that connection with a stranger seeing their eyes and having that moment. And then what would you do in that moment? Because in life,

we just keep walking. We keep walking. None of us, if you were to stop every time you thought somebody was checking you out or vice versa, like, we wouldn't get anything done. And then we'd be horrifying each other because you'd be like, yeah, sorry, I looked in your eyes. Like, I don't actually want to talk to you. So we just keep walking. And I thought that just, it was very simple. It was easy to understand, and it was perfect for the moment because of how weird their story was. And the fact that you knew there wasn't going to be some weird sex scene because it's just not what Elmore Leonard was going to want you to do. Like he wouldn't have wanted that in the movie. And that scene, I know this sounds weird because there's so many love scenes or pre-sex scenes or sex scenes where even if you're by yourself, and I put it on the uncomfortable level of fear roller coaster scene with your parents level of uncomfort.

okay that's like my peak uncomfortable like i don't really want to watch the scene with you um none of that happens here none of it's actually awkward or uncomfortable so i you know i think that stuff's kind of hard to pull off and and again he did it is man well it's also it's a general it's a cliche but you got you know remember what you think of as the sexy scenes and movies this was one of those things i remember oh that has an incredibly sexy scene i remember seeing it and then when I went back to it, I'm like, wow, there's nothing that you couldn't show in a PG-Movie, much less PG-13. And it's still one of the sexiest love scenes out there, even though, do you mean?

Yeah. More often than not, you think of nudity and, you know, and crazy explicitness. And I don't know how they did it. I think it was music and the cuts and stuff. It did. It's another trivia story. I've been shying away from telling the story, but this has been fun of this. So one of the reasons this movie is huge in my relationship is my wife and I...

You're a bankrupt. There you go. As young couples do, and George was so sexy in this moment. And as young couples do, I remembered us when we were dating. We played that game when you were like, hey, what's your free pass? There's even a movie called Hall Pass back there. And Krista was like, oh, George Clooney, you know, and I said whoever I said. And then I went to pick her up at work because I was doing Spin City, and she was doing the Drew Carey show.

And I was in New York. It came out to L.A. I went and picked her up at work, and she was sitting, you know, ER was also a Warner Brothers show, and their stages were next to each other, do carry an ER. And she was sitting on the stoop of her trailer next to George. And I'm like, your free pass can't be someone you see every day. That's not how free passes work. I had no idea, you know what I mean, at the time, you know?

And so when we watch this movie, she finds this scene so sexy, it's just still, even to this day, three kids later, I'm just like, come on. Yeah. Enough. Keep away from George. But, you brought up a good point, though, about this. Like, my favorite sex scene in a movie, and not, I know this sounds like this is breakout material for the pod, is Wes Anderson's bottle rocket in the hotel where Luke Wilson is with

the maid and they get in bed and the music plays and the sheet turns and they come out on the other side of the sheet and they've been together for however long and they have their shirts off. And you're like, it was just, I know this sounds so. so cheesy, but it's, I like that execution way better. And it has to fit the movie, too. But I, every time, the first time I ever saw that scene, and look, I love Bottle Rocket, but I went, okay, that's perfect. Like, he did it. I know everything I need to know. It's perfect. They like each other and they didn't have to do anything beyond that. My favorite sex scene when in Requiem for a dream,

when Jennifer Connolly really needs drugs. I'm kidding. I knew you were going to go, like, so hard the other way. Like, you know. By the way, I love Bill's choosing this scene because to me what really ends this scene is one of my favorite lines is the aftermath of that sex scene when Jennifer Lopez walks out and is pissed off at George Clooney

for no reason. It played so real and so like an actual couple in his lines, why are you mad? They just have like this amazing montage sex scene, night of drinking, and she's feeling shame and self-hatred so she shits on him. And that moment to me is what kind of ended that whole thing. I loved it.

There's something I want you to know. I wasn't just looking for a fuck if that's what you're thinking. Or I was... Why are you mad? I was looking for some kind of kinky thrill, you know, score with a bank robber, the way some women go for rough trip. All right.

Now I can say that I fucked a U.S. Marshall. Do you think I will? I don't know. It's funny. The trunk is the famous scene from this movie. The chemistry in the hotel bar scene is, to me, like, I think it's so hard to find in a movie two actors that click like that. And I'm sure they felt that at the time as they're doing the takes and stuff,

Clooney was able to replicate that a couple other times in his career. I think for whatever reason, some people just can do it. But it's really rare because most of the times you can really feel it if the actors aren't 100% aligned or attuned or whatever. and in this, they just are. Two more quick scenes. The ending. That fucking crazy house,

Albert Brooks's house, the double staircases, white boy Bob accidentally killing himself. J-Lo debating whether to shoot Clooney or not and all of that. It's just really compelling. And it feels very, in a weird way,

very specific to the 90s. It feels like a 90s 15-minute stretch. It's weird. Strange things are happening. There's a goofy death. It's really good. Then the last one, I really like the same Jackson cameo

and the realization why she put them in the car together and just that voila-la moment. But for most rewatchable, it's funny. The trunk's the most famous scene. They shot it 45 times. None of the takes were used in the final cut

because the test audience disliked one long take. So they had to reshoot it and they did it the way they did it and it became the famous scene in the movie. Nobody had ever seen a movie like that or a scene like that before. The more I see this movie, I actually think the hotel bar scene is better.

But I think the trunk is a more important scene because it was so unique. It was so crazy to watch these two people crammed in a trunk and then they start developing chemistry over the next seven minutes. I personally would go with the hotel bar scene. What do you have, Rosillo? I have a question about the hotel bar scene

because I think the trunk the trunk sets it up because in any other circumstance, she's already shooting him, she's arrested, you know, it goes back and forth, that ends violently. But I think just the geography of it, right? I mean, maybe that's not the word, but the fact that they're stuck there, they have no choice but to talk. And so I kind of like that mechanism to force them in a conversation that would never take place in any other scenario. So it's probably more important.

But the way the hotel thing is shot, when they go to the ISOs, they're further apart. And then when they go to like them in the same shot, they're inches away from each other. Oh. And I don't know if they're doing that on purpose so that when we see it from the profile, they're closer or if it was just, I don't want to say this, but like, I don't know if it was a bad editing or something. Yeah, it just, I'm a, you know, continuity director over here, Madman. Unfortunately, whenever I watch it, I'll be like, ah, man, that cigarette.

And so I just, I don't know if that was a trick to make them look how, like, aligned they were from that shot. And then it was like, okay, we had to remember that they weren't that close together. actually in the hotel. I don't know. It's just something I don't even know what the answer is. That got really artsy. Yeah. I liked it. I liked it. What do you go with? Bill, trunk or hotel bar? I'm going to go trunk. I'll tell you why. Because I don't, in my head, the trunk scene isn't just the trunk. There's two things. It's, I start that scene when George emerges from the

hole to escape. Yep. And I love how chaotic it is to the trunk scene. So what I loved about it was, him, you know, two guys getting shot, you know, not Luis Guzman, but the next two guys getting riddled with bullets and killed. And you're watching it through Jennifer Lopez's POV while she's going, what the fuck's going on? What the heck's going on? And then George, you know, pops out, get those guys over there, get those guys over there. And he's walking, Bing Rames walks behind her, picks her up and then they're in the trunk. Do you know what I mean? So that to me, as a guy early, you know, when Ryan was talking about how the movie starts early in a film to have like, oh my God, they're escaping. Those guys are dead.

I don't have a film Trump romantic chemistry scene. It so put me disarmed and uncomfortable in a good way. I really dug it. And then as a guy that loves writing even more than the visual, and I love that your show is called Rewatchable. There's stuff in that trunk scene that's only cool when you see this movie the second or third time. My favorite is that they talk about three days of the Condor,

which is a movie that I love. And it is literally an apologistic statement about what they're going to do in this movie. Jennifer Lopez goes, I never bought that movie how she would jump into bed with him so quickly after just one meeting. You know what I mean?

And literally, it's what happens in this movie? And so when I watched it again, I'm like, that's clever, because I thought it was just banter, and now we're here, and now I'm enjoying it because she said it would never be something that she would do because it's not real and she's doing it herself.

I thought it was awesome. Another movie I like to fade in on, And it was three days of the condor. I'm with Robert Redford when he was young. Yeah. You know, I never thought it made sense, though. You know, the way they got together so quick. I mean, romantically.

I also like that he's quoting network, but he's screwing up the quote. He got it wrong. She's annoyed by it, but she's not calling him out on it because they just met. He's like, I'm mad at hell and I'm not going to take your shit. And she's just like, now that's not the quote. Yeah. It's really smart. All right.

We're going to take a break and then we're going to do the rest of the categories. If you're chasing data down, instead of seeing it in one place, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite. All your data in one place with built-in AI for real-time insights.

Learn more at intuit.com slash ERP. What's age the best? We mentioned the opening bank robbery. Terrific. I enjoyed 1990s Detroit in this movie. I like Cronk Jim. I like that Emmanuel Stewart. where it's still alive.

I like how he changed colors with it. And I decided to do a good job with it. Clooney's strategy of robbing banks without a gun, admire it. Somebody probably tried that, like a week after seeing this. Yeah. Probably didn't work out as well. No. The Dennis Farina J-Lo scenes, I just love Dennis Farina.

I mean, Miami Vice, crime story, midnight run. He's always the same kind of guy in these movies. I like him every time. It was interesting that he's J.Lo's father. It was a weird combo, but I kind of bought it. And I think he's really important in this movie because he gives her this extra color and layer to the case. She's not just the U.S. Marshall. She also has this dad who's worried about her, but not in like a cliched way.

I just thought those scenes were good. I liked them. And I love Dennis Farina. It's hard. You can't, you guys do that Joey Pan's thing. You can't make him that because he's so important in this movie. No, can't. I loved that he.

immediately knew that his daughter was into this dude, just immediately. Even before she did, you know, I thought that was such real father-daughter writing. I thought it was awesome. A couple great nicknames of this movie, Dick the Ripper for Albert Brooks's hedge fun guy, whatever he was, and then Snoopy the boxer, but he hates being called Snoopy. He likes the other nickname. I love little shit like that. Catherine Caner's great in a couple scenes in this movie.

I just want to point out for Woodside, the best heard, 1998, 99 run. Out of sight. Your friends and neighbors, 8mm and being John Malkovich, all back to back. It's pretty good. Speaking of runs,

here's Ving Rhames from 93 to 98. Dave, Pulp Fiction, ER, Kiss and Death, Mission Impossible, Rosewood, Conair, out of sight. Really strong IMD. Bing was automatic for me there for a little while. He really was.

Whatever we want, like Mission Impossible. I just keep getting this guy better laptops. I'm in. What do you think he's like, almost like a Danny Green or better? Like just plug him in on any team. Who would you give him?

Ray Allen? Yeah, let's say Ray Allen. Okay. Ray Allen's a Hall of Famer, but I kind of feel like Bing Reims might be a hall of favor. That's how I felt about him there first. I mean, after pole fiction.

Yeah. I don't mean this is a joke. The only reason he might not be Ray Allen is because of how distinct his voice is and his decision to do Arby's. And now when I go back and watch this, I hear we have the beef when he does certain line readings now. And by the way, and I'm just such a simple-minded guy, it bums me out. You know what I mean? Because it takes me out of this stuff when he does certain. I wish he hadn't had done that.

He had so many good moments in the 90s. The fucking Dave, I would have taken. a bullet for you. At the end, standing outside of the community place, man, is the end of the movie last shot. Pulp fiction, this movie, I mean, he's just... He's scary. He's actually, like, really scary. And then...

But can also be the guy, it can be like Clooney's loyal buddy where they have this, like, real, believable best friend combo thing. I love the... Did you guys like that we never saw the scenes with him calling his sister and admitting to stuff and just heard about him secondhand? Or did you wish we had seen one of them? I didn't need more of that. I had that in picking nits.

And by the way, when I'm saying scary, I mean, like the first time you ever see Pulp Fiction and the way Tarantino gives you this, this daily, yeah, this daily version of L.A. that nobody else really experiences,

this gritty, this underworld. And then, you know, afterwards, my father thought the line, we're about to get medieval here. Like, when my father,

he didn't stop saying that for about a year. So, Ving has a very special place with me for that. It's horrible parenting. advice, Ryan, for any dad. It's just not... I was old enough at that point, but the younger brother there, you know.

The score is really good in this movie, DJ David Holmes, and then one more, What's Age, the best, that we haven't mentioned yet. I just like the quote when Clooney says, do you know anyone who's done one last big score and then gone on to live the good life? It's true, because all these movies have the one last big score, but really only in Fast and Furious in that franchise,

have they pulled it off and then the next thing they're on a beach and holding hands and it kind of works out. But then they always end up going back. Any other what stage is the best for you, Riscilla? No, I'm good. Bill, we good? I'm agreeing on yours because I was going to tell one of the things I dug was how it was going to be a last great score. And then when we got there, they're still all so dumb. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, because, and they play it intelligent, but they're shooting it is safe. A dude's robin stakes. You know what I mean? A guy trips and shoots himself. And that's why there's...

Whip, White, Bob. He's all excited about the stakes. Yeah, that's why there's never a last big score because at the end of the day, you're an idiot. A lot of people don't know this because in 8 Mile, Cheddar Bob is actually the younger brother of White Boy Bob. Makes sense.

What's age is the worst? I don't have a lot here. There was a spinoff called Karen Sisko on ABC. And the only reason that's age the worst for me is I have a lot of Carla Gugino stock. I really like her. I've always wanted her to find the right thing. And this was one of like the eight things where it's like, oh, maybe this will be it.

It just didn't happen. Okay, I have one. The Albert Brooks CGI on his head. What kind of program were you? That was before Lucas Films, I imagine. I don't know why we, it was like an S&L, hurry up, your wig is wrong. Or your bald wig. Your bald cap is wrong.

It's like, whatever, we got to go out there. Every time he had the bald cap on, it was, it felt like it was a little. little like that wasn't a 99, 1999 look. It was like 1968. Hmm. Another one age to where. Not as passionate. That's okay. We all have her, we all have her taste. How fake, uh, how fake Clooney running through that pick was because he didn't want to stink at basketball. If you watch the basketball scene. Yeah, he looks, he looks like just a hustle, rebound set picks guy. I have all these notes. We won't get to him, but I'm glad you, you set the record straight. By the way, why couldn't Clooney have been good in the pickup basketball game?

That's another what's aged the worst for me. It's not like he's David Caruso in the Kiss of Death pickup basketball scene. Riscilla, if you ever want to do an entire pickup basketball prison movie podcast, just tell me.

I'm ready. Done. I think they were trying, I went way deep on this in my head. I think they were trying to imply because it was his second stay because of what he did after Albert Brooks and the gray looked more pronounced

and he was older and tired. And he was looking at all the other old inmates, too. Remember that montage? Yeah, that makes sense. He's too old to play pickup anymore and he's got to get the hell out of here. You know what I mean? And because he subs himself out too and they start giving him a hard time. That's really good.

Man, you're good at this. I could have used maybe 75 more seconds of the pickup basketball. I'm never turning it down. Just for the directors out there making movies and TV shows. I'm never turning down watching actors play pickup basketball. One more would stage the worst. This is stupid, but Viola Davis plays a character. name Adele, who then they mention over and over again after. And every time they say

Adele, I just think of Adele, the famous Adele, who wasn't famous when they made this movie. Casting What Ifs? Here's a good one. Sandra Bullock was supposed to play Karen Sisko. And Soderberg spent time with Clooney and Sandra Bullock. He said, quote, they actually did have great chemistry, but it was for the wrong movie. They really should do a movie together, but it was not Elmore Leonard Energy. So decided that she wasn't right for it, and they eventually landed on J-Lo. Good instinct.

And they eventually did gravity together, which worked. Yeah. So there you go. You know what's cool about the casting thing? I couldn't think of it, but I think the most amazing thing for people that, and you guys are so astute, that don't realize what directors

that can really establish tone mean is it's not casting, but they offered this to Barry Sonafield first and this movie. And what's so fascinating is he said no and Steve Soderberg did it, but then he went on to direct an Elmore Leonard movie.

And so if you watch Get Shorty, that's what this would have been tonally if Barry had directed this. Do you know what I mean? It just would have, you know? And I'm not saying that's bad or good, but it's amazing if you do the weird experiment of watching those two movies,

same source material, you know, back to back how different they are in tone. That to me is trippy to consider. And by the way, and Quentin doing a book too, all three, although Quentin's and Sautenberg seemed to live in the same world, you know? Agree.

Sonom failed. He dropped out to do men in black. That's why he didn't do this. So, you know, and we always talk about this podcast. You need luck with this stuff. A lot of times these movies, a different director goes in, and that's why it became great.

Or an actor, Eddie Murphy almost got fired from 48 hours. You have all these moments. and sometimes they end up deciding what happens. Can I ask a question just on the casting part of it? Bill, can you share something with us that maybe we don't understand? Because, I mean, sometimes it's a studio. Sometimes you get your way. Sometimes you don't.

I think for a newer person, it'd be hard to, like, understand that chemistry and how it relates to the screen versus just watching two people talk. And you could also be hypnotized by the star power somebody. But that whole part of it, I don't think any of us know really that much about what actually goes into those decisions. All right. So what's really interesting is in movies and TV shows like this, most TV shows and movies, you audition, you know, audition with a casting director. And there's no, you know, interactive action between actors and actresses, you know, beforehand, before their cast. The one thing that this is different is in TV shows that are flat-out romantic comedies are based around a couple, you know, they did on a couple.

you know, they did it on Matt about you, I'm quite sure back before Helen Hunt was, you know, was, and movies that are romantic comedies might start with a star in place like George, is that they will do chemistry screen tests. And so what's so interesting about this, I think, for the actor or actress that goes through this, is that's not their first audition more often than not. Do you know what I mean? Often they will have auditioned with casting directors where people go, oh, this person's really good. and has the talent level to get this role, which should be the last hurdle they have to climb. But then if it's in this world, like you're talking about Ryan of chemistry, then it goes, no, let's also make sure that it works with the guy or woman that's already cast in the lead, and we believe them as a couple. And so then they're in the, you know, I think this one, George, rumor says they shot at his house,

do you know what I mean? And that she went over and literally shot the chemistry test part of it over at his place. And so to Brigh had to look at it and go, oh, this works. I can see it right away, you know. Because what happens often in TV shows, and it changes the course of things that's happened to me before, is you'll cast an actor and actress. In TV, it's much less common that are supposed to be will there or won't they in your show.

And then you'll get there, you'll do the pilot. And you're like, they have no chemistry at all. We need to immediately rewrite this and switch gears. And he's going to be into someone else, or she's going to already have someone in our life. you know so it's a it's really specific to movies and specific genre of romantic comedy usually does that make sense yeah well there's one other casting what if with this both danny davidow and garris shandling were considered for rippley the albert brooks part

i read the shanling thing i got really intrigued by that and i think albert brooks is good in this movie but shanling you're catching right at the tail end of the hbo show which is one of my favorite shows of all time. And I think he, I think Shandling as Ripley would have been pretty good. I don't know if it would have been better than Albert Brooks, but it's an interesting, what if. What's awesome. It might have been better.

I got to be honest. I would have been worried that he would have glimpsed at the camera, you know, at least once, you know, a little side eye. Okay, but how would Shandling, how would Shandling have been in the scene that we then learn why Clooney's so mad when he's leaving the office building before the first bank robbery? I think that back and forth is great. Because you need to be a dick. Yeah.

Because Brooks is like basically to Clooney, your resume is a fucking bank robber. What the hell do you expect? Although I love that Clooney comes back over the top of him, be like, he married a rich woman and divorced her. So fuck you too. But Shandling was how to would Shandling, I'm not saying he couldn't, but he had to show a different edge there. Right. But those are the most exciting things, though, when somebody that you haven't seen doing, doesn't, you know, like if he could have done it, would have been awesome. Well, that's the question.

He never found the right movie part. when he tried to transition to movies. He had that movie with Mike Nichols. That was a legendary disaster. And then he kind of just gave up after a couple years. And he just never found the right part. A couple more categories. Best, that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award,

has to be White Boy Bob. I didn't even know what this guy's name was in real life. He was in a bunch of movies in the 90s and 2000s. But anytime you saw him, be like, oh, white, my blob. He's alive. This was my first Louis Guzman site. For me, then he just became everywhere. But back in the day, I remember going, who's that dude?

Well, but he was in Boogie Nights, though. That's the only reason I wasn't. I don't know if he became, what was his name in Boogie Nights? I'm Blankin. Maurice. He eventually became Luis Guzman, but I'm not sure when that happened. Somewhere in the 2000s, right? He all of the time was like, oh, that's Louis Guzman.

The Vincent Hanna, Give Me All You Got Award for overacting. And I say this out of love. Steve Zahn is going for it in every scene. He has this dialed up to 11. And he's just like, I'm sticking to this idea that I had heading into the movie. Nobody's talked to me out of it. I'm just fucking gone for it. And he goes for it.

Okay. Now, if you're going to do this, let's do it and get out of here. I'm freezing my ass off. You want to get out of here, run. It'll warm you up. Oh, ha, ha. Really? I swear to God, Glenn, if I find out that you are lying to me, I am.

I know. You will find me. me. I believe it. Hey, you know what I was thinking? If you didn't drive me to the federal court last summer, you wouldn't even know who I am. If I didn't know you, Glenn, by tomorrow you'd be in jail or dead. Think of it that way.

Now run. Dude, I'm there for all of it, though. Me too. When Jennifer Lopez lets him go, I found myself cheering for the end of that movie. When he, you know, in Detroit. when she's like just run away and he doesn't believe her for a second and laughs and then he goes,

I would have been happy if that was the end of the movie and nothing else ever resolved. I would be like, hey, Steve Zon's movie ended. It was great. Steve Zon, I like that you said he's his own movie. Which leads us to Deon Waders, which is loaded with candidates. Steve Zon, Louise Guzman,

Dennis Farina, Catherine Keener, Isaiah Washington, and the guy who played White Boy Bob, who had the best heat check in this movie Rissillo. I actually think Cheatel should be, maybe he's in it too much. He's in it too much?

Yeah. Okay. All right. He's like the number three star in this movie. I can't give it to him. Is Guzman in it enough? Because I love every single line he has. So he qualifies because he plays like eight minutes.

How he gets arrested? How he gets arrested is money. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. I also like he's got the boyfriend in prison, that whole thing. Like, they don't really go too hard on it, but it's hilarious. They let you know. That actually.

he's perfect. Yeah, that, to me, it's Guzman, because I forgot about that scene in jail. Can I make the Catherine Keener case? Go ahead. I think she's in two scenes. She's really going for it. She's wearing those crazy outfits. She's good in the J-Lo scene. The cigarette clamshell.

And it's a role. I'm like, usually she doesn't play roles like that. And it's a really, like, quirky, weird role. I was impressed by her, but... She's absolute money, man. Yeah. But I'm with you. I think it's Guzman. Shout out to Isaiah Washington. because I thought he's really, really good in this movie.

Can I pitch you guys a new category for your show? Yeah, let's hear it. And I don't know who the player would be. So one of the things I always look for, the same way Ryan says he looks for like bad cuts or something, every movie and every TV show will have at least one small part that the director or the producer has put one of their pals in it. Do I mean?

And to me, sometimes those people, you know what I mean? And so I was trying to think of the basketball player that like stays on the team because the star likes him, you know. And like the Jack Collinsworth Nepotism Award. Yeah. I would have said, I wrote down and it's wrong because he can play now. But I would have said down like Sedi Osman when LeBron loved him at Cleveland, you know, but now he's playing. No, I've got the guy for you. It's the Udana's Haslam Award.

Yeah. The Udana's Haslam Award. I like it. And so here's where I became obsessed. is, I'm like, I was like, the dude that played J. Lo's, and I don't know this for sure, the dude that played J.Lo's boss, Daniel Burton, you know, the kind of stiff never fired a gun, her boss that wouldn't let her be on the task force and all that stuff. I was watching it going, what movie is this dude in, you know, and it was kind of a substantial part,

you know what I mean? And I found it awkward, and it wasn't my favorite. And so I looked him up, his name's Wendell Harris, and he's primarily a director. And he won the audience award at the Sundance Film Festival in 90. And I guarantee you he's a director buddy of Sotaberg's that he went. I don't think he's even acted that much besides that. He went, you should be the awkward FBI guy. Do you know what I mean?

And so I find that fascinating and I always look for it. They're in my show. Who's your, you, Dennis Azum? Mine was on Scrubs. There was a guy named the Todd who played in my basketball game. And he was a kind of a meathead surgeon that had maybe one line and episode in about 80% of the episodes. And all the other actors, he said this lovingly because he would really rehearse hard and try it. But they would always say, you know, because you say, hey, you want to run lines?

They'd always say, hey, your buddy Rob's over there running line. You know, because you only had like three words in episodes. I'm trying to think of Haslam's the right guy, though, because maybe he should have to be on multiple teams. Producer Craig thought James Jones. Oh, that's pretty good. Mike Miller? Now, Mike Miller is too good. Eddie House?

James Jones? Eddie House wasn't... It's people that get the hang. Yeah, and by the way, now that I put this in your head, even if it's one line, you both will start finding that person. Well, you know, my favorite version of this is Eddie Murphy, his best friend, Clint Smith, is in like every Eddie Murphy movie and some S&L sketches.

But, like, in 48 hours, when they go to prison, the bunkmate in Reggie Hammond's prison is his childhood buddy Clint Smith, who's always in all of these different things, yeah. It's always, and you can always, the best is when you can spot them, when you can go, oh, that person couldn't even deliver, here's your food well. You know what I mean? So you can occasionally, you can occasionally see them so blatantly.

It's super fun. Recasting couch, I'm just going to throw this at you. J-Lo's boss who I don't even know who that actor is, replace him with Lawrence Fishburn. Yeah. By the way, that's the dude I'm talking about. Jaylo's boss. His name's Wendell Harris.

We put Fishburn in that spot and we're good to go. Different movie because he's somebody with, that's formidable. I didn't find this dude formidable. No, I actually thought, I thought he was the weakest actor in this movie. He has a lot of lines, too. He does. I think if Fishburn's in there, it just makes more sense to me. And it's the right point of Fishburn's career, the whole thing.

Half Asternet Research, Soderberg and the DV Commentary, was Scott Frank, who wrote the movie. They said that cast members ad-libbed a bunch of stuff in the script, including Cheetos saying in a situation like this, there's a high potentiality for the common motherfucker to bitch out. A lot of stuff like that was ad-libbed in the thing. A lot of people in the industry felt the movie was mismarketed. They put it in the summer, right, as this was the height of summer blockbuster,

people really trying to go all in on these things. And it's a pretty obvious should have come out in the fall movie. And I actually, my memory of it was that it came out in the fall. I don't remember it came out in the summer. But it's hard to believe this wasn't like an October movie because this feels like the most Octobery kind of movie. And then there's one other thing I didn't even notice until I read about it. When Ving Rames meets White Boy Bob, he says, oh, so tell me, what do you do now, white boy Bob? That's how to shoot your big mouth off.

And then White Boy Bob in the movie literally shoot. shoots his mouth off and actually kills himself. So it's like a little callback. Apex Mountain. George Clooney, I'm going to say no. Oh, I thought you were going to say George. Well, because this movie wasn't like a

I would say Ocean's 11 for George, right? That's true. It's the pinnacle of this guy. Because that movie actually really succeeded and set up the rest. J-Lo's an interesting one. I think her Apex Mountain probably came maybe two years later when her whatever that album was became a huge thing and she became this multimedia threat

basically. I don't know if it was this movie Soderberg, no. Ving Rames, probably Pulp Fiction. Has to be, right? Elmore Leonard? And he still released a movie books in the 90s. I think Get Shorties, it felt more, I don't know. I think Get Shorty's the one that stands out more from that decade. It's more on the zeitgeist, yeah, but this is cooler. How about steaks in a fridge, Apex Mountain? Yes. How about Detroit? No.

I'm surprised. Beverly Hills Cop. What was the Apex Mountain for Detroit? It's probably 80s, right? Isaiah Thomas and Axel Foley. Yeah, it's Silver Dome. The cars are still going. WrestleMania 3 at the Silver Dome.

It's probably right around 87, right? I'm surprised you like Detroit. because of this movie. It's every time it's like the Revenant. It's cold. It's dark. The lighting. It reminded me of a bearer scene with DeCaprio.

It reminded me of Detroit. It did blow me away that it's a Detroit movie. And then when they go out to the beautiful snow to Albert Brooks House, you're like, oh, that's gorgeous. It seemed, you know what I mean? So it did in a cool way. Every time I see Detroit, it's just eight-mile Detroit. And they mixed eight-mile Detroit with, oh, there's some.

suburbs that are stunning, you know? Right. I think Detroit Apex Mountains, somewhere in the mid-80s because you have Tommy Hearns, you have Isaiah in the Pistons, you have WrestleMania 3 at the Silver Dome, and just a lot going on. The Kronk Jim's at its heights. Picking Nits. I only have a couple.

The back-and-forth chronology, I think as a re-watchable, it works because you're used to it. But I remember the first time seeing this movie having a little trouble following where we were and going back and forth and stuff like that. I don't know if there's a better way they could have done it. I don't know whether they're doing little time stamps or something like that, but I feel like that would have taken you out of the flow. I think they were just assuming like, you'll get this.

We're going back and forth. But it is a tiny bit confusing. There's one thing I really, and I could be wrong. But you see if it struck you guys. Knipicking is Jennifer Lopez's fantasy when she walks in on George Clooney. do I mean, and gets in the bathtub with him. What bummed me out was to cheat and make you think it's not a fantasy. They show Ving Rames and George, you know, get to their place and press the button,

and then you're in her fantasy. But I kept getting hung up on, it's her fantasy. How come it's the exact place they're actually staying it? Do you know what I mean? So to me, she's never been there. She doesn't know it. Right. I mean, and so I felt they cheated too much.

It really bothered me, you know, that she's fantasized. I'm like, why is she fantasizing about him in that hotel in the same color scheme that he's actually in with Ving Rhames? It bumped me. Wow. That's good. Because I thought, yeah, you're right. Watching it a few times, the time thing doesn't mess with you. But it'd been a while.

The only one that I thought was hazy was that one leading up to it, not because of her fantasy, which, yeah, you feel like it's cheating a bit. also felt like just from a story point, you go, they can't already be at this scene. Like, this can't already be the deal. But I think they're coming out of the Lompoc flashback and they shoot it from like high above the hotel at like a weird angle, which I feel like was their way of alerting to you. Like, okay, now we're back in present day because they just show you this angle. They hadn't really done. I don't think in any other spots.

But that's always a delicate one. Like, Mad Men for me was the all-timer when, when Don Draper has the fever dream and he strangles the mistress and then kicks her underneath the bed. And you're at home going, did they just ruin this fucking show? Like, did he just kill someone in season five or whatever it is, season four or five? And I know there's little clues of picking up on that that's not what it is. But that's always a tough one. And trying to just figure out the right way to do it with the audience where you don't

feel like you're completely betraying them. You know my stance. I'm anti-dream sequence. I'm anti-narrator and dream sequence. you have to prove to me it's going to work. My default is always going to be this will probably go badly unless you pull it off. I'm just going to assume it goes badly too many times.

I'm going to assume it's going to go wrong unless you prove to me that it worked. Well, I'll tell you the nitpick thing, and it's not mine that I read about and it lined up with mine, is we're in Jennifer Lopez's fantasy, and then she wakes up her head hit, and you realize that with Steve Zahn,

she was driving her along and hit that divider and got knocked unconscious. she wakes up a hot. What did I say? You said hello yourself, which is cool, implying that she's been out. And then her boss comes in and says, I'm reading your report. And the person online said, when did she write that report if she's unconscious and having a fan. That's a good nitpick. In the hospital about what happened. When did that happen? Good nitpick. I was like, whoa, it's true. It's so weird. If Fishburn had been in that scene, you would have noticed. My only other nitpick is, would Jack Foley have gone back to

the maid. Because the maid is in danger, right? Isaiah Washington is a terrible guy at a rapist and something bad is going to happen the maid. My question is, was Jack Foley going back means he's a good guy? I'm not sure Jack Foley is a good guy. We've spent this whole movie, even though we like him, fundamentally not a good guy. He's going to go rob $5 million from this dime guy.

So it's like there's some invisible line for him that now is. being crossed, he has to go back. I just wasn't sure they had earned that moment with the rest of the movie that I saw. Does it make sense? It makes a lot of sense because you're like, why would you do this?

But it's almost like every movie like you have to then make the person do the thing that they wouldn't do to finish the movie. True. Because it's a good narrative move. The big problem with this is still, and they even challenge Zon on it in the jail scene when they're lifting,

is why would Brooks tell any of these fucking guys any of this stuff? If you're this titan of industry, if you have this, you're cutting a $50 million check, why in your spare time would you be like, oh, and I have $5 million in diamonds? Yeah, that's a good nitpick. Just in case you guys wanted that info. Next category, could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? I think ironically, it would be a 10-up.

I don't think they would make this as a movie now. I think it would absolutely be a Netflix show, and you could go into the back. Steve Zon literally would get his own movie, who'd get his own episode, and you would just go on through, and you'd have this. the scenes with Ving Rhames, confessing to his sister. Oh, you'd follow Guzman and his escape and his, and him getting to Adele. It would be awesome. Do a little more backstory with Guzman and his boyfriend.

Probably unanswerable questions. I only have one. Can you really leave diamonds in a fish tank and not have anything bad happen in them? Because I assume you have to have chemicals in a fish tank. I know nothing about fish. I've never been a fish guy, but it seemed like is that something you could really do diamonds would be good for the diamonds. I have no idea. That's why it's an unanswerable question. Is it something anyone ever, ever, ever would do except for the fact that it's a good visual in a

movie if you had to hide your diamonds? Yeah, I would say a really stupid thing to do and you'd probably pick like some panel in your house or something. Sure. I know Rosillo hides his diamonds, not in the fish tank. I keep mine on me at all times. Yeah, if you're going to cut them, I don't know if there was any tarnishing from whatever additives you had in the fish tank. if it would really mess it up. I think for the most part, you're in the clear. Al J would just help. My only one would be,

was there a way to do this in a clever ending where she sets up the final scene where Clooney came to the rescue of her, they talk it out, or maybe we don't even get that dialogue, where instead of him, then her bringing him in. Like, it was, it's always tough when you're ending these movies. You're like, okay, everybody's pointing guns at each other.

How are we going to end this that it's remotely original? Like what feels like it hasn't been done a million times before? And a lot of it is very similar in here. But I've always wondered, is there a way to just kind of do an Elmore Leonard's story where actually the federal agent helps the guy she's in love with escape from this scenario instead of like, hey, we're going to bring you to jail. But maybe we'll hook up later when you break out. Well, we end up doing it in Fast and Furious Four.

That's right. my bad. Yeah. That's, or Fast Fier's five. Yeah, five. One of them. Yeah, that's what it finally comes up. How could I have forgotten that?

Yeah, you forgot. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I'm going with the J-Lo Marino jersey. It'd be a cool thing to have. Can hang it up? Be like, oh, game-worn, out-of-sight, J-Lo, Marino, Jersey. What do you got, Rosillo? Go ahead, Bill.

I was going to say the lighter because you can just go get that lighter and tell everybody it's that. You know, what's cool about this lighter is that this is the Cooney lighter. And by the way, I might do that just as a result of this podcast and see if anybody believes me. It's a good party trick. Riscilla, you got anything? He gave it to me.

He gave me this. I know. I don't have anything because I'll just, I felt like the lighter had a much bigger role in the movie the second 45 minutes. Like, it was like, hey, halfway through the movie. They had to, they had to set it up for the end. By the way, I'm bad at this. you guys are so much quicker.

I got to go back to something Bill said about would Jack Coley, would he go back in and save the maid. They made so many great efforts to make sure he would go back and save the maid and for whoever he had jumped in my head. He couldn't kill that guard whose uniform he stole, you know, to get out and the breakout of the year. So they took, and it's still strut. It's right now because of what you said,

it's weird. He looks around and sees, I think he sees a vase with some flowers in it. Yeah. And bonks. by the way, which are all over prisons, as we know. Yeah. And bonks the guy on the head with it in a way that you're supposed to go,

that guy was knocked out, but he's fine. You know what I mean? They're taking such great pains to go, he'll never hurt anybody. He's great, you know? And that, because of what you said, Bill, it jumped out after. I have one more unanswerable question for Bill Lawrence on this one. How come no one's ever been able to nail the prison sitcom?

You didn't find Oz funny, man? Come on. In part. Funny moments. I imagine that would be impossible, but I love anyone's aspirations to pull off a sitcom based in a prison. Impossible. Closest I could come is as an exercise and futility is I'll have my sound guys put a laugh track on a good episode of Oz for you and send it over and see if it just has a different feel to it. You know what I mean?

Out of B.C. becomes way fun here. Last question. This is a tough one. Who won the movie? J-Lo. Soderberg. So you think Soderberg? I guarantee you just being in the mix that he was at a time that there were some people,

especially since it wasn't his first, that said, this dude was a flash in the pan and can't pull off a commercial movie. And I think, think about it this way. The movie didn't kill financially. So if people didn't think it was awesome, stylistically, he's not getting Oceans 11. You know what I mean? He's not getting those other cool movies. So I think he won and his career won in that moment.

It's weird. My answer is almost two-tiered. I think J-Lo wins the actual movie because she has the hardest job and she's got to do the most. But I think big picture, Soderberg wins for all the reasons, Bill said. Because this didn't lead to like a 22-year movie career, the movies I would have wanted to see J-Lo make. What's weird is Clooney, this movie cements him as an A-plus Lister movie star.

None of us feel like he won the movie. I think it did the most for Soderberg. And I also, you made the key point earlier, like if Sondafeld, who's, you know, who was a really successful director, if he does this movie, it's just not the same movie. And I think there might have been two or three directors total who make this movie memorable enough to make it a rewatchable. So Soderberg, we'll go with that. Guys, this was a pleasure and a privilege. Bill Lawrence, do you have fun? It was so fun.

You guys are challenging, man. You know your movies as well as you know sports. It's crazy. All right. Well, we'll see you on the world according to Garpree watchables. Riscilla, go to work on that prison sitcom. I think there's something there. By the way, I don't say this ever blindly.

I will read that within an hour of it landing in my email. I'm already thinking about it. It would just be great if somebody's like, I like the pilot. I just don't see where we're at season three. I don't like the relationship with the guard. All right, this is really fun. At a site, check it out.

By the way, it's on, it's on Stars. If you have Stars, it's on that Stars app. So check that out. Bill Lawrence, for Amherstelle. Thanks for being on the rewatcher. You know,