The Rewatchables - ‘Quiz Show’ With Bill Simmons and Brian Koppelman

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Brian Koppelman hop into their sound-proof booths as they rewatch Robert Redford’s 1994 Best Picture–nominated ‘Quiz Show,’ starring Ralph Fiennes, John Turturro, Rob Morrow, and Paul Scofield. Directed by Robert Redford. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Ronak Nair, Eduardo Ocampo. A Mountain of Movies® on Paramount+. Stream now! A House of Dynamite, on Netflix October 24th. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. The rewatchables, brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. Brian Copperman pops on from time to time on the rewatchables. We usually do movies that came out at least 30 years ago, like Rollerball, which is 50 years ago.

Quiz Show is a movie that you were texting me forever. We have to do this. When are we doing this? It's a combination like guilt trip slash almost like an agent trying to, we got to talk. We got to talk about the next deal. Just like there was a real urgency and then finally read for a month happened. It's true. Well, every time I would think, because people would always ask me, like, what are my most rewatched movies?

And this movie, after the movies that are the obviously most watched, the godfather, good fellas. Right. This is my most watched film after the, after the batch of movies that my whole stripes, Princess Bride, after the core movies that formed who we are. this is the next most, for me personally, the most re-watched movie. So that's why I've always been like, well, if we're, you know, I've done like eight or nine,

I think that I've done this nine times with you. And this is my most re-watched movie other than those. So that's why I always brought it up. And then, yeah, when Redford died, it's like, I mean, we got to do it. Quiz show, last movie of Redford Month coming up next. This episode of The Rewatchables is presented by Paramount Plus. Around here, we love talking about rewatchable movies,

almost as much as we love watching them. Paramount Plus has movies, a mountain of them. New movies and also the classics that we keep coming back to. Almost famous, Gladiator, Top Gun, The Naked Gun. That mall, whether you want to relive your favorite moments or catch the latest blockbusters or dive into some old 902 and O. There's a mountain of movies to discover on Paramount Plus. Start streaming today.

Compliment. I thought we were going to get television. The truth is television is going to get us. Is this true? Let's start there because it's such a great quote. I think it's true. I mean, I think if, I mean, you want to jump to, I mean, if you want to jump right to what from the movie

is sort of over time been the truest thing is that rigged reality shows can change the world. And TV. and what we perceive we're seeing from TV and how TV can shape society and it has gone in a whole bunch of ways the last 30 years. This movie came out in 1994

September, September 10th, Pulp Fiction, September 14th, Quiz Show, September 24th, Shawshank, those three movies in 14 days. And Quiz Show gets a little lost in the awards thing because this turns into Forest Scum versus Shawshank versus Pulp Fiction. It was an amazing movie year.

But remember when we used to just have awesome movies coming out every week? That was great. I'm sure as you do, like I actually remember the theater for each of the movies you just said. Oh, yeah. I truly remember the experience of seeing Pulp Fiction, obviously, Quiz Show and Shawshank. So, yeah, that was an incredible mind-boggling. That was just a month and a half at the movies or whatever. The month of half is two weeks.

Three weeks. I remember Shawshank and sadly I remember quiz show being just completely upset, angry and appalled by Rob Morrow's Boston accent. So it was those three things and by the way, not the last time Rob Morrow's Boston accent

is going to come up in this podcast. But yeah, it was such a great movie and yet, you know, I saw it in Boston and I think I saw it with my dad and we're leaving. Like, what the fuck was that accent? Why can't people get the Boston accents? This is the peak of that. I remember, well, just

a couple years later, Matt and Ben fixed everything for you. And then... They sure did. David O'Rossel and Wahlberg. Everybody fixed it for you. You know what I mean? Right afterwards. All those movies fixed things for you. But I'll say having just, I was only, you know, I got out of Tufts, what, six years before this movie came out, I was still pretty familiar. I'm quite familiar with Rugaluck. I was still pretty familiar with Boston accents. And yes, Morrow got such... First of, I love Rob Morrow. I think he's incredible in the movie. And I feel like he was unfairly maligned. There are a lot of crappy. There are a lot of Boston accents that maybe aren't exactly what you'd want to hear. But I think the people

weren't native Bostonians. It didn't drive us crazy. No, because there was the TV movie version of the Boston accent, which was like this weird Kennedy era. Anyway, we don't need to spend talk. I mean, you're a Connecticut guy. I'm a freaking Massachusetts guy. Screw off. This scandal was ground zero for TV manipulating viewers, big bad corporations just doing the wrong thing, the cult of celebrity, and a loss of American 1950s, I would say, in a sense, in idealism, and bigger institutions. It wasn't just the show. We had sports scandals, right? We had a massive college basketball scandal. We had all the McCarthy stuff going on. It just felt like We came out of World War II.

Oh, my God, we're doing so great. However, Stam's book is fantastic about this, which I haven't read in a while, but the 50s was really fun and really hit a lot of this. Has a quiz show chapter in it, about 21. But this is right as things are turning, like people, oh, maybe it's not all hunky dory. Maybe I shouldn't trust everything.

And this show hits right in the vortex of that. It really does. And I think at the beginning of this, I do want to say, like, I'm so really grateful to talk about this movie because I do think what you said is so great. And I really haven't thought about why the movie got lost between those other two films. And of course, Shawshank was a slow burn and right became considered the greatest movie ever. We both had read this short story and loved it. And I was fully ready for Shawshank and saw it in the theater and loved it.

But I do love talking about this film because it's all the things you said. and yet it's not a downer when you're watching it. Like, it's everything you just said, but the movie also captures that feeling of innocence that was lost. It captures, like, you know, what does he say? Everyone wants the best for you, Charlie. Like, everyone wants to think the best of you. Like, that idea that people were still trying to think the best of each other

and that it was possible is like at the heart of it, it's like such a human movie. And I'm going to say, if you're a corny meter, like, I'm at risk of it, and I apologize to everybody, but this movie just makes me feel so good because it's like deeply flawed people trying to, like, get outside of their own,

like we all are, like, just trying to get outside of their own limitations and failing or maybe succeeding a little bit or having a moment of grace. And also Atenacio wrote one of the greatest, and talk about a heater run. I mean, the guy had this and Donnie Brasco and disclosure and homicide.

The guy just was on this unbelievable screenwriter's run. And I think quiz show is like one of the greatest screenplays of the, you know, since 19, whatever, 90 to now. Yeah, I was going to ask you that because you've spent half of your life probably in final draft documents with you and Levine just staring at stuff and half written scenes. And this is like a revered screenplay. And I was watching. I watched a movie twice to try. First time I watched it just because I hadn't seen it a few years. And the second time I was really watching it,

how they constructed it in the scenes and the dialogue and everything. So I had in the back of my head. And it's just, it's just so crisp. There's not like, I don't feel like there's a scene wasted. It's not a slow movie.

There's a pace to it. Every scene and moment has a purpose. All the transitions, the montage comes in the perfect place. It just, it's kind of a clinic on how to write a two-hour movie about something that happened 40 years earlier. You know what I mean?

It really is. And he found a way to show you these kind of people who don't even really exist anymore like the family because he puts it through the eyes of this guy who was like bootstrapping it, right? I mean, you know, you've lived a version of this. You went into this industry. I mean, I have to think you could relate in some ways to Goodwin

in that not, like, because you went into this industry that wanted to keep you out. And no, seriously, dude, right? You were a kid who was at this school, like, you'd gotten there. You didn't grow up with nothing, but you didn't grow up like a lot of the other people who got into the media landscape, right? And like, you had an idea like Dick Goodwin does about like, well, I think that I can, I don't know, let's get in rooms with these people and see if I'm, see if I know what I'm doing and see if my way is right and see if I can be smarter than them and outthink them. And like, and I know the rooms that you were in. and I know the condescending way people spoke to you and talked about you.

And to me, like the brilliance of this movie is you get Dick Goodwin. And he's not like, he's smart as hell, but he's rough around the edges. And also, he's not sure he's good enough. Like, he thinks they're better than him. And then it's heartbreaking for him to realize, in a way, oh, there are people.

Like, we're all just people. And it's kind of amazing. And that's why the screen plays so great. because the screenplay just takes you on that ride till Mira Sravino looks at him and is like, they're no better than you. And it's, you're almost screaming it at the screen

at the same time that she is, right? Well, and he's seduced by the whole life, too. They do a really good job of get sucked in. He goes to like the perfect, perfect rich people 1950s outdoor party with, you know, corn and all the lobster, all like the perfect rich people food. and then they're going to take a little nice

little boat out, little boat trip. Hey, can you get the mat? And it's just like, oh, this is the life that I've always dreamed of being a part of. And of course, Charlie's like, get the mast, you know, and you could see that Dick barely knows what the mast is. Like, he's right about it probably. You're at Harvard.

He probably got on a sailboat once, or he doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah. It's such a little moment, but it's perfect, right? Yeah, I love that you brought that moment up. It's a little like there's shades of Mr. Ripley in this. where the kind of semi-outider coming into the sport of class, the movie does class so well. Like Van Doren is clearly from, you know,

top, top, top of the line where, like, prestige wasn't just about money back then. It was about, like, this guy's a professor. This is a literate society. People knew who Charles Vandora was because his dad was just like a brilliant guy. Like, we don't really have that anymore. Well, these are the guys, like, remember that? What's the De Niro movie about the beginning of the CIA? you know, it was that Matt, Matt's in it, and De Niro directed it.

I'm blank, and the informant, maybe? No, like, right, it came out right around when the departed, like, Matt made both movies, like, back and back. Good shepherd. Good shepherd. That's what is. Yeah. So, like, you know, these are the guys who started the CIA, and they didn't want to let anybody else in, right? They don't want to let Catholics in.

Forget Jews and Italians. Like, they don't want to let Catholics in. And this is the same kind of closed. society of people who knew best and know the way things are supposed to be. And, oh, we don't even have a television. We're not going to watch it. We're going to quote Shakespeare at each other. And there are always that big parties where they're making jokes about Eisenhower's dead. How could they tell? Like, oh, I guess there was this famous figure named, it's a great moment screenwriting wise, right? There's this famous figure, Edmund Wilson. But everyone

in that world calls him bunny. And Rob Mara's talking to his wife. And he goes, Yeah, they're all Thurba this and Bunny Wilson that. And she goes, Bunny. And he goes, everyone calls him that. And the wife goes, that doesn't mean that you should. Right. And it's great because he's getting seduced by being around this power and this sort of sense of class. And it's one of the best movies about class ever.

Yeah, you just go to your dad's house. There's just chocolate cake in the fridge. Yeah, I'll just have a nice slice of chocolate cake. This sounds delicious. He goes, the old birds get in the hang of it about the cake. I think the old birds get in the hang of it. Oh, wait. I'm sorry.

I'm so glad you brought that up. There is this moment in it that speaks to it. Again, it's like Redford's brilliance and Paul, Tanasio. When he's like the dad is played by this incredible actor, Paul Schofield. And when Charlie comes up in the middle of the night with the chocolate cake, that's one of my favorite movie scenes ever. Like every line in it is just mind-boggling. and both performances by Ray Fines and Paul Schofield's incredible. But he goes, you know, I'm going to try some of that, the dad.

And then he goes over that super old-fashioned silverware holder. And he lifts that thing up. And it's like they don't have a drawer. Like nothing so crass is keeping their silverware in a drawer like we do. Or plastic. Like in the middle of the like, tell me you're not just grabbing a plastic for, you know. Like, I've been to your house. You could go grab a plastic fork.

If you were at my apartment, like Amy would be like, don't give him the plastic. please, but it's just like a regular, it's just like a fork. Like he's going to the thing and lifting up like. Well, you left out, there's a painting of the dad behind him on the table, which is like the ultimate rich guy thing. Here's a painting of me. Awesome, Bill. Yes.

But every single, yes, it's perfect. The production is like, but there's this idea like because, and they don't comment on it. And I think you're so tempted. I think also like screenwriting wise and also directing wise. Like they don't cut to like a little. insert of the fork. Like he gets up and he goes over and he lifts that thing up. But if you just think about it for a second, that Connecticut house, like that was passed down, that silverware was passed down like four generations. Right. Like that thing has been passed

from rich, waspy family member to rich powerful waspy family member. John Quincy Adams might have given them the silver. Yeah, you just say you had no idea. It was just passed down the line. Yeah. Because, you know, this was before there was a Catholic president. right when they called the Gentiles and the Jews were like things you you would say

they were like these two groups Redford said Redford wanted to do this movie because he said quote watching Bandor and the other contestants was irresistible

because he watched quiz show when it happened awesome he said the actor and me looked at the show and felt like I was watching other actors it was too much to believe

but at the same time I never had doubted the show. I hadn't had, I hadn't had evidence television could trick us. As we know now, there's little morality there. Redford hated TV. Then he said, the scandal was really the first in a series of scandals that have left us numbed unsure of what or who to believe. So this was like a major passion project for him. He's watching this show. He's a wannabe actor in New York City. The thing happens. And he's like, man, I really didn't trust that I was watching something authentic there. And then it wasn't authentic. And it just

he just kind of followed it away. And then when he wanted to direct a movie, which at this point he'd done a river runs through it, he'd done ordinary people in 1980, could probably have picked any project he wants. Anyone's signing up for Redford movie. There's people in this movie that are real actors that are in it for like, Griffin Duns in this for like a minute. Timothy Busfield. He's a real actor. Yeah, Busfield's like barely in it. And Busfield's hot at that point. It's the early 90s. I asked him.

I was like, did Redford call in a favor? I was like, how did you end up in the movie? He goes, yeah, Redford called in a million favors. He got all these incredible guys. We didn't say no to him. This is like when we did sneakers last week. Redford commits the sneakers. There were no casting what ifs.

We had no category because once he was in, everybody's like, I'm in. So whoever they wanted, they just got their first pick. I think everyone shows up. I mean, and we'll talk about when you go through and ask the that guy. I mean, but you got a that guy in every scene, you got some incredible actor.

And, you know, two of the greatest directors of the modern era are playing parts in it. It's everywhere you turn. There are these unbelievable performances. So the screenplay adapted, Richard Goodwin, Dick Goodman, U.S. congressional lawyer, played by Rob Morrow,

who investigated the accusations. There's a lot of stuff after the fact about, and what, well, guy, I have a section, for this, like some of the inaccuracies. This is somewhere between when they do the based on a true story and it's like, based on a true story of Patrick Ewing, but they win

the 1994 finals. Technically, it's based on a true story. He played in the 1994 finals. You could just say John Stark's shot went in. It's based on a true story. I don't mean to do this to you. But they definitely took some liberties. That's so mean. John Starks did get that dunk, though.

He dunked over, you know. He did. He did get the dunk. And then Ray Fines, who does Schindler's list a year before a quiz show this year and then two years later is an English patient so he's in three of

three Oscar nominated films two of which one best picture and this is all in the span of four years and this weirdly was his peak like his best actor peak but it seemed like in the mid-90s it really seemed like he was going to be a major major major major star

never quite happened. He's always just so great though man I mean in Bruch how great The guy's just always incredible, right? Yeah, I feel like he's like one of those athletes who just kind of slid through the cracks putting up huge seasons. Huge, I agree with you. You don't really know what happened.

I think the guy's so great. I think he's one of the most fascinating people to watch and there's so much going on in his eyes. He really acts where the camera picks up so much stuff happening. I mean, he's one of the absolute great. Yeah, you can see his brain. handsome guy and you can kind of see his brain calculating stuff, which you need in this because this is a guy who's presenting himself as a certain way,

but he's also being torn up inside because he's living this live in this live. I mean, and you know, you didn't mention or much, you didn't mention Tarturo, the other lead of the movie. I was going to go through it. Yeah, keep going. Tatoro. And then Rob Morrow, those are basically the three leads. Tortoro, I have a lot of thoughts on this performance.

It's, he gains 25 pounds. He's got a weird tooth. He's incredibly annoying. And I actually think in a weird way, it hurts the rewatchability of this movie just a tiny bit. Because Herb Stemple, not a fun hang. And he's in a lot of scenes, but I think Tertura had to play him that way. It's funny. I think Atanasio's cursed twice, right?

Because Brasco's like, you can't find a more rewatchable movie, but you've got to fast forward the N. H scenes. Rest in peace, of course. one of the other greatest screenplays ever made, right? Doddy Blasco, perfect by the same writer. I think this, though, I think that Herbie's scenes are saved because he's always in a scene. Like, I love how hard Turturro commits, right? And if you think about Barton Fink and if you think about Lobowski, he always commits that hard.

He's absolutely not. Look, everywhere you turn in this movie, there is somebody who is a world-class, one of the greatest actors of our time. I'm like, you know, if you list the best, you're going to list 90s people. You're not going to mention canish. Yes, I mean, yes, obviously he's Joey Kinnish and that's life changed my personal life, but I don't think the audience cares as much about that. I care. All right.

I can't listen. The day, the day that he showed up, it was beyond our wildest dreams that John Tartour was sitting there looking like the real Joel Bagels, you know, amazing. Yeah, he was incredible. he's probably the guy I got, I'll say this. He's the person I probably got to know the least on that movie. He only was six days.

He was as lovely as could be. But I just, he was so in it. And those days were so long that there wasn't a lot of hanging. Like, I didn't hang with him. We were together making the movie, but I don't feel like I ever got to know. Terturo, he was there.

He was Kanish. He was great. He said all the words. He was perfect. But I think he's amazing. Stemple, like in terms of you believe, I think it's got to be hard, Bill, to create this in a way where you believe this guy would be that self-destructive because Herbie Stemple could have lived a life and never exposed this thing, the Herbie Stemple of the movie.

So the guy had to push it in a way so you would understand that he'd really do this. But you know immediately the guy's a huge loser when he's, he can't even let Jack Barrier get through the introduction. Oh, so uncomfortable. interrupting him. Yeah. And my relatives really like Jaredville, too. It's just going, going.

My blood isn't tired anymore. Yeah. There's, I was almost thinking, so Bonnie Timmerman cast this, who over and over again pops up in movies and TV shows like this that are really well cast. I must, I got to talk to Chris Ryan about whether we need a great eye, Bonnie award for movies that are like really well cast. But this movie has Tarturo, David Pamer. Like during the, during the David Pamer 90s heater. where he's just in a lot of stuff.

How about that in a way, it's a David Paymer, Hank Azaria buddy movie? That's like a separate movie. It's over on the side. They're incredible, those guys. They're back and forth, Abba and Costello thing is like mind-boggling.

Yeah. Christopher McDonald's. Mir Sorvino early. She's not really Mirro Sorvino yet, but she's Rob Morrow's wife, Griffin Duns, and this, Ileana Douglas. And then the coup of

having just Scorsese and Barry Levinson as actors and both of them are like about at the peak of their powers at this point, right? This is Scorsese four years after Goodfellas he can do whatever he wants at this point. And then Levinson,

this is, he was in a producing directing. He was even a producer in this. He took his name off because they had so many producers, his companies involved, but he was doing whatever he wanted. And both of those guys are good actors.

They're really good. As like considering their directors, they're actually good character actors. They're both excellent in the movie. I mean, if you don't know Barry Levin... So, like, everyone knows it's Marty. Like, I don't know if everyone knows that that's Barry Levinson. You know, the audience.

And he just feels like he's Dave Garraway. But Scorsese, when that scene with Scorsese and Rob, is really, like, mind-boggling acting, where you... Redford's genius was he cast a guy who knows what it's like to have all the answers and be super powerful and God-like. Yeah.

And when Scorsesey looks at someone goes, I sell Geritol. think I don't know. No insulting that would be, that's even more insulting. And you never question it. And when Morrow says, imagine if they could see you, it's one of the greatest moments, you know. So Morrow, Rob Morrow, I think is really good in this movie. The accent, it is what it is, but he's doing a lot of really good young guy stuff in this where he's kind of the right age. He's probably early 30s in real life, but it seems like he's late 20s. but the way he's kind of staring people down

and like he's got a presence to him but definitely felt like he could hang with all these people and it's weird because he's red hot from Northern Exposure at this point which was a real like critically acclaimed and beloved it wasn't a massive hit like he are but it was a really well-known show him and Gene Turner were like

real stars coming out of it and he had a lot of different movie possibilities he took this one his movie career never really took off. He ended up, I noticed that he was in billions way later as a judge. He'd forgotten.

Yeah, I'd forgotten. He started as like an attorney, he was an attorney general and then a judge and, and yeah, we put him in that. We put him in, he plays Eddie Q and super pumped also. He's, you know, Rob is a,

I think he's a great actor and I think he, I don't really understand why he didn't become a big movie star off this movie. Other than that the, movie is so beloved by cinema,

like people who love movies, but maybe it wasn't galvanizing in that way. But, you know, he did, it's funny, he was number one on the call sheet for that show numbers and it did run for 100 episodes.

He's had a, and then there was a show on Showtime where he was number one also on the call sheet. Like, he's had a great career, but even I think he would say it could have been more in a way. I talked about it. Yeah, I must have been.

would he turn down? Because he probably turned down some really good stuff, right? When you gave me a podcast that I did for 10 years, but this was back in the days when we did it together, I had Mara on. He was like on in the first year I did the podcast and I asked him these questions. And I think he felt like he made some mistake. Like, I think he felt like there were just some things that kind of went slightly sideways. But I got to tell you, he was so great on billions. I mean, he was in many episodes, you know, and was every time he'd play a scene, the other actors, like, if it was Giamati, would come up and be like,

I'm so happy to have Rob Morrow here. He's so great. Like, everyone loved working with him. And I would work with that guy in a heartbeat. I feel like, I feel like he's an excellent actor and a great dude. And I'm always happy to have him, you know, and I think he's so good in this movie because you believe he's smart as Dick Goodwin. Like, Ray Fines is obviously, you look at that guy and you go, well, that's a genius. And it's hard to have somebody stand in there who you feel like can outplay him in the chess match. And Morrow's, to me, believable. Do you find him?

I find him very believable in terms of his like figuring this thing out, you know? It's funny because it's a great part. And I think like five years later, Damon and Norton are probably in the final two trying to get it, right? And then you go like maybe three years later, Leo's trying to get it. And it's just one of those like age 28 to 33. American actor parts

that you're just like, I need this part. This is a great part. I got to get it. David, you're so right. Edward and Matt, either of those guys would have been unreal

in that part. Yeah. You're so right. Speaking of Unreal, Paul Schofield, Triple Crown Runner, one of the great Shakespeare actors of all time,

apparently, before my time. And it's funny, he gets nominated for this for Best Actor. And I think one of the most controversial Oscar categories we've maybe ever had. Oh, wait, I don't know that he wasn't nominated

as best supporting actor? He was. A best supporting actor. Okay, yeah. So this is when Martin Landau wins for Ed Wood. Right. Sam Jackson loses for Pulp Fiction. Chas Palman Terry gets nominated for Bullets Over Broadway. That is getting nudged out. Schofield for Quiz Show

would be one of those who'd be like, oh, get that guy up. But then you watch the movie and you're like, This guy's incredible. Like, yeah, it makes sense. And then Gary Sinise as Forrest Gump. Oh, right. It's Lieutenant Dan. But we lose out.

We don't get Bruce Willis from Pulp Fiction. We don't get Ving Ram's from Pulp Fiction. There's a whole bunch of other movies from this year that had some possibilities. But yeah, that's what happened. But Schofield is like, I mean, like a real legendary, not quite Olivier, but like maybe a level to like all-time Shakespeare. guy that everybody revered. I think I think Schofield's so good

in this movie that there's no doubt he deserved the nomination, even with all the things you just said. He's so good. And I heard a story today. I called Paul Atanasio and I was like,

I'm not going to mention you. He goes, no, you can. You can say that. So Atanasia said that Paul Schofield used to go on, I'd never heard this until, I heard this an hour ago. He said that

Paul Schofield used to go on a silent retreat once a year for a month. But Redford wanted this thing you're saying about how Redford, but Redford wants him in the movie. But back then, there's no cell phones. And he's on a silent retreat or there are cell phones in 94, but they're not smartphones. You know, you're not texting a guy to whatever. So he's on a silent retreat on the Isle of Man or someplace like that. That's what, and Redford's like, no, no, no, it's got to be Paul Schofield. And they're like, nobody can find Paul Schof. We can't get him. Yeah.

And Redford's like, where is he? And they figure out that the place that he is, there's a lighthouse and that there has to be a guy in the lighthouse. And so they find a way to contact a guy in the lighthouse. And they get him to come down from the lighthouse and go find Paul Schofield and say, you got to come to the lighthouse and call Robert Redford. And so he does. During a silent retreat.

Yeah. Gets him off the silent retreat. He goes to the lighthouse, calls Redford. And then Redford's like, I need to. you to come do this movie. And he's like, all right, I'll, I'll get my tie to play with around my neck for the movie. And that's how Mike Tomlin recruited Aaron Rogers to the Steelers. Same story. Yeah, same thing. I watched go for whatever that's called retreat. Oh, I left out a Rob Morrow quote. He said, because he was everybody was going after him and, and

he decided to quiz show. His quote was, I knew this was the one. It had the cachet of Bob Redford. It was incredibly well written. Did people call Robert Redford, Bob? Was he a Bob? I never met him, but everyone calls him Bob. He's a Bob. I did not call him Bob. I never met him, but they all call him Bob.

Yeah. Even today, like Atonazio called him Bob today. He was like, well, Bob really wanted him. Yes, they call him Bob. Bob Redford. And then Bobby De Niro, he gets that one, right? A little bit. That's a tough.

So Marty, it's definite. If you know Scorsese, you've been around. You got to call him Marty. Well, my, yeah, that's a Marty is a no-bra. You have no choice but to call him Marty. Yeah. I would say everybody does call De Niro Bob, but it's tough to get it out of your mouth. You want to call him, Robert.

It's tough to get out of your mouth. Yeah. This got nominated for Best Picture. The other nominees were Shawshank Pulp Fiction, four weddings and a funeral, and the winner, Forrest Gump. and then Redford was nominated as director. Zemeckis won for Forrest Gump. Tarantino nominated. Frank Darabont for Shawshank, not nominated.

And then we have the best writing on screenplay based on material previously published. Adonacio nominated for that. But Forrest Gump won that one too. Forrest Gump, now, I've kind of circled back Forrest Gump's a really good movie. There was a lot of, like, movie nerd hatred for it for a while because it took all this stuff.

But it's a tough one. I mean, I personally vote for Shawshank because you take a short story and you make one of the great American movies the last 35 years out of it. But so many great movies that you. Yeah, I never dished. I never dis Fores Gump.

I definitely think Pulp Fiction or Shawshank should have won a lot of these awards and Quiz Show right there. Those were all great movies. Pulp one screenplay. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So quiz show, $31 million budget made $52 million.

Roger Ebert, three and a half stars. And I got to say, you know, we've done this Roger Ebert segment for a while. And I always read the review and I try to pull like a thing out of it. I thought this was one of the best reviews I ever read from him. I'll actually, I'll tweet it from the rewatchable's Twitter account. It's just great because it's kind of less about the movie and more about what the movie's about, which he didn't really do always. He would, you know, he would do like the traditional movie reviews.

and then sometimes he would get set off on a tangent. But he said the screenplay was smart and subtle and ruthless. It's careful to place blame where it belongs. But I really like this part. There's a theological belief that it is a greater sin to tempt than to be tempted. And this movie firmly reminds us of that. Now, take stock of what we've lost in the four decades since 21 came crashing down. We have lost respect for intelligence.

We reward people for whatever they happen to have learned instead of feeling they might learn more. We have forgotten that the end does not justify the means, especially when the end is a high TV rating or any other kind of popular success, and we have lost a certain innocent idealism. Raj, fucking cooking. Nails it.

Like, he really, I think he really liked what this movie was about and had a couple small flaws with it. But, yeah, he nailed it. We're going to take a break, and we're going to do the most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to you by Apple and AT&T. Scroll long enough and you'll hear it all. Miracle diets, fitness trends, you name it.

But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source. Your body. You can track sleep quality, cardio fitness, and more than unpack all the information in the health app on iPhone to get a picture of your overall health. These health insights are developed with clinical. experts from start to finish. Find out more at apple.com slash health. Apple Watch is not a medical device and should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice. This episode is brought to you by Netflix.

Catherine Bigelow, the Oscar winning director of the Hurt Locker and Zero Dark 30. Two movies we need to do in the rewatchables is back with a House of Dynamite, a cinematic visceral thriller about America's race to respond to an anonymous missile launch. I just know I'm going to like this. Under the pressure of a ticking clock, the film's characters are called to make impossible decisions with implications for all of civilization.

That includes us, while at the same time confronting their own emotions. And humanity, a house of dynamite. It's on Netflix, October 24th. All right, most rewatchable scene, Stemple's first scene in the way they frame that quiz show, My only question is, would you go for the actual first scene when Rob Maro's buying the Chrysler?

It's an amazing. That's an incredible scene. The Chrysler thing is incredible. Walk me through the case for it. I can, though I do think it's ruined by the end of it. The button of that scene is the one moment that for me is like too obvious, you know, in the Sputnik thing. But right up until there, it's like as good.

It's Mad Men. It's like an episode of Mad Men in this little tiny sliver 20 years before men. Mad Men. It's incredible. And it tells you everything about the era and about the guy that we're talking. I mean, it sets up for later when he's like too rich from my blood. It's like, it's a perfect setup for who this character is. And it's a setup for America and where America was and what a car meant. But then the end of it, when they bring in this idea of Sputnik, it's the one, it is to me

the only moment in the whole movie that tries too hard is that moment. But it doesn't ruin it for me. And I would have another argument for most rewatchable scene, but go ahead. You tell me what's the most rewatchable to you. I wrote down, I have nine. Okay, go. Stemple's first scene, Herbie's dead.

But just like going into an actual 50s game show, the way they did. And the little phone booths, you're watching it from the prison now. I'm like, oh, I'm thinking like, could this work with this exact idea work in 2025? You're thinking all a bunch of things. the Van Doren interview

where Azera's like, I got the guy, I got the guy, I got the guy. And they do the little cat and mouse game with them. And it's unclear if he took the bait or not is just really strong stuff. And I agree with you on the Pamor,

Azaria, a comedy team thing. It's funny. Totoro flipping out when Pamor tells him to lose. For 70 grand herb, you can afford to be humiliated. Van Doren B. reading Stemple, and you know he knows the answer.

You don't know if he's going to flip. And then just say, fuck it. I'm saying, Marty, what are they going to do? And then it goes to Van Doren, and they give him the question that they gave him in the audition. And he said he wouldn't do it, yeah. And you know what's great about this? I love movies with a what would you do moment.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. Where you're in and you're like, all right, what would I do? because you like to think like, well, I'd be idealistic. I wouldn't, I would be like, get the, you know, I'd be like, I'm not participating this. I told you I didn't want to do it this way. And you guys tried to fuck me.

So I'm out. But then you start thinking about, oh, this is one of the 20 biggest shows on TV. Oh, there's money at stake. And you just sell your principles. Not even not. All that, for sure. But also that other behavioral economic stuff of everyone going along with it. And can you be the one loan voice?

voice. Like, can imagine trying to get out of your things. Oh, I heard this question before. Like, you know how hard it would be to say those words? Though the movie does such a good job because when they build to the big scene and when Van Dorn's like, throw in the money,

throwing the whole thing, would you do it? And Rob Marrow just goes, no. And he goes, but I would, but you believe Maro wouldn't. I do when I'm watching the movie. I believe Rob Maro would not. I believe it too. I think the right answer would have been to say, I think there's been a mistake. I know the answer to that, but

because in my audition, they asked me that question. So I think it's an error on your side. I know the answer, but give me another question. When I've rehearsed this in my head, that's exactly what I think I would have said. But your right to say, it makes us all kind of imagine that we would do the right thing, but who really knows? Well, they say to Pamer afterwards, how'd you know he'd go for it? What would you do? Like, he's just like, of course he was going to go for It's human nature. You're going to go for it. I wrote down the montage.

I love a good montage. The things are looking up for Charles Van Dora montage. Highest ratings ever. New newspapers. New apartment. You know, you always need the one montage. The fake shoe tie.

Yeah, yeah. The fake shoe tie in the back of the car, the limo. Right, to try to wait until the kids get out. Time the girls and everything. Yeah. As Herb unravels. So the chocolate cake scene, Charlie versus Dad,

which we got to give the Big Cohoon Burger Award for Best Use of Food or Drink to the Chocolate Cake, unless you want to give it to Geratol. Good for the blood, tired blood. Yeah, good for your blood. Van Doren dumps it. Stemple's testimony. The TV president lobbying Charles,

including quotes like, speculation in our society has a way of becoming fact. Ooh, dark scene. Television is a public trust. We can't afford even a hint of a scandal. Just like classic evil, 1550s white CEO guy.

Charles confesses to his dad Schofield goes to another level on this. That's an incredible moment. They gave you the answers? You got the answers. And then Charles's statement which is really the Nepo baby mantra. I've stood on the shoulders

of life and I've never gotten down in the dirt to build to erect a foundation of my own. I've flown too high on borrowed wings. everything came too easy. Great stuff. And then the ending, if you want to throw that in, too. My favorite stretch is Van Doren beating Stemple through the montage to the untying of the shoe.

Like that whole stretch of the movie I really enjoy. Me too, but I would throw in... Okay. For me, my favorite, the thing that I've rewatched so many times is the run when they almost become... friends. Like to me, that run when they almost become friends and they meet at the Athenam club and you're brought into that world that goes all the way through that trip to Connecticut when you meet all those people because that sets the movie up in a way. And it's like the

hunter and the prey, but the hunter's not sure that he wants to pick up the gun and shoot the prey because it's a beautiful gazelle. And it's like, am I really going to shoot this gazelle? I don't know that, you know, that moment when when the father's like, We don't even have a TV. And then Charlie's ego is so, you know, Charlie's talking about the money. And then he gives him that big TV. And there's something about that sequence of, um, a life. That's a great scene.

The whole picnic table, rich, rich family in Connecticut scenes. Because I've never seen. It's like the kind of thing where, however I grew, you know, like, yeah, I didn't grow up poor. I didn't, I grew up fine. Um, but I never saw that. You know what I mean? Well, it's like when the Kennedys would be at hyanist sport every year, You're playing touch football on some football field lawn.

It's like, you know, I think maybe part of it is growing up as like a Jewish kid from wherever, even though, and watching him go to that restaurant and go like, you know, the Rubin's the only totally invented sandwich. And then he goes, I don't see a lot of Rubin's in here. And it is like he's getting to be on the inner sanct, he's going to be in the inner sanctum. And he has to make this decision. Do I want to stay in this inter sanctum or do I want to do my job? And it's one of those, and it's interesting, right? Because Atanasio does the same thing in Donny Brasco. There's something about the outsider coming in, getting a little bit seduced by the world,

and then am I going to do my job? Or am I going to, having finally gotten on the inside, hey, I like how this feels on the inside of this world. It's really cushy and special. And I feel like I'm part of it. I don't know, the movie seduces, for me, the movie seduces you as he's getting seduced. and I think it's so hard to do like we talk about as a screenplay I can't imagine how you write those sequences

and then that that emotion just adds up and adds up and I think I think you just have so many feelings about because I think from the beginning you kind of hate Van Doren but then you kind of see Van Doren in a way through through Charlie's eyes and you

I mean through Dick Goodwin's eyes and you kind of can't hate him because Dick Goodwin's kind of falling in love with him. I'm with you. All right, so we disagree on rewatchables. Will we agree on what's the most 1994 thing about this movie? Tell me.

My nominees are Rob Morrow getting top credit billing over Ray Fines. I did notice that, but I think the answer is just 1994 Marty Scorsese. Love it. Just having him at the exact age he's at makes me know that it's rooted in like exactly this year.

Oh, while we're there for 1994 though, because I, another way I looked at that 1994 question since the movie set in the 50s was like, I was like, what's the most 1950s thing about the movie? What's that, Gerataw?

Well, Jarotol for sure, but also the use of the word beatnik to convey the idea that he was gay. The gay artist living downtown. And he goes, why? Because the Greenwich Village, Beatnik says it. When was last time anyone said Gentiles

and Jews? Sure. That too. But when did that end? Like, 1972? I don't even know. It certainly wasn't, yeah, somewhere in our childhood. Somewhere in our childhoods. Like someone was like, are we inviting the Gentiles to the bar mitzvah and

someone else? Like, should we let that go? Let's let it go. Yeah. Just cut. Cut. Let's just let that go and be done. But wait, I do want to point out two other people who are in this movie.

We didn't mention it. Yeah. should, and this is a good moment because of the time. So the guy who plays that Beatnik, that's based on it. For all the changes, that's a real guy. James Snodgrass, that guy really did save the answers. But that's played by this amazing guy named Douglas McGrath, who died a couple years ago and was a great filmmaker and screenwriter.

He actually wrote Bullets Over Broadway with Woody. He also wrote the play, the Carol King play, and made that movie Emma. and he was this one of the funniest best guys in the world. He was in Solitary Man and we loved this. This was really one of the greatest guys you ever met in your life. And he died super young, like super tragically, like an out of nowhere heart attack in his like early 50s, but a really special person. And then Ben Shankman's in the opening scene. It was like a great actor who's been in a million things like in Pi and also a lot of episodes, billions.

And he's giving, he gives Marrow shit at the beginning. It's just all over the place. that guy incredible actors. What's age the best? We mentioned the 1950s rich people circles, which I think Ripley still is the pantheon for that. That's the highest level when we're in like Italy and all over the place with Freddie and Jude Law and the whole crew.

The father, son stuff, we talked about a couple times already, but the dynamic, and they don't spend a ton of time in scenes with them, but you know the dynamic immediately. You can tell the weight of the dad both professionally and like as just a character and

just how revered he is. You can tell how the son has a lot of stuff going for him on his own, but he's still in the shadow a little bit and there's a deference with the dad. I just think that stuff's really hard to pull off. You know what else I think aged really great? Rigged reality shows.

Right? Rigged reality shows are everywhere you turn. All rigged reality shows. Yeah, nobody would even care now. Every real... I mean, you all just assume that, like, basically, every reality show has some level of riggedness on it. And this was the first one.

And, you know, I just think that that idea that you tell people what to say on a supposed reality show, and it might affect the world, turns out to be true. Yeah, 50 years later, you have... You have Lauren Conrad and Brody Jenner pretending they're dating for the entire last season of the hills. And then it ends. And they do a wide shot. And it's like a Hollywood set in the background. It's like, wait, did you just fake that entire show?

But yeah. By the 2000s, we were doing this openly. Yeah, you make a guy, a boss of a real estate empire. And then he becomes boss of... I mean, you do that too. Morewood stage the best. You know, I really liked when kids wanted to be Joe DiMaggio. That's awesome.

I was just like hearing that in a movie. It really seems like there was about a 10-year stretch where people are just like, all I want to do is be Joe DiMaggio. And then it got replaced by Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays. All I want to do is be one of these two guys. I don't know who that is now. On your TikTok,

because speaking of Forrest Kump, has it come through on your TikTok or Instagram, Tom Hanks telling them meeting Joe DiMaggio story? What is it? It's really for you. He was in a restaurant. No, I mean, he was in a restaurant. Hank tells it.

I don't know. I just saw it on. TikTok. But Hank's, I've saw, Hank's, it's come up like 10 times recently and I watch it all the way through. He's in a restaurant and the matrilyte comes up and goes, Mr. DiMaggio wonders if you'd like to go say hello

to him at his table. And Hank's is like runs over to the table and gets to spend 10 minutes with DiMaggio. And he talks about how easy DiMaggio made it look. And DiMaggio looks and he goes, it didn't feel easy in here. Wow.

Oh, you'll find it. Hanks telling the story's great. Wow, that's like the last level of fame when you send somebody over to be like Brian Coppelman wonders if you'd like to come over and say hi to him at his table. And if you're Tom, thank you just jump to go to go. Yeah, you're not even, of course. Yeah. You're in the middle of some, some friends telling you they're about to get divorced. You're like, hold on one second. It's Joe DiMaggio. It's DiMaggio. I got to go. Hold on. Finish that divorce story later. Do you think anyone even a day younger than you understand why he races to Joe DiMaggio's table like we do.

Growing up with Mr. Coffey and just like the legend of it. I think we're probably the last, I'm probably the last mid-50s is probably the end of that. Because I remember in Seinfeld when they had the episode where Joe DiMaggio was at the counter. Yeah. That was kind of the tail end of when that joke would have worked. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think it's over. He played for the Yankees and he was married to Maryland. Of course. No. Great. Unbelievable. 56. You and I still know 56 games.

But I don't know if people know that or care. 56 straight hits. 56 hits. 56 straight games with a hit. I don't know if people like... 56 straight games. One hit a game at least. Probably the greatest record.

Don't you think you've just known that from me? I know it from my dad. The greatest attainable record ever. Nobody else has gotten a 45. But don't you think that's like, we just know that from our fathers. Like, because I know that from as little as I, I know that my entire life, that statistic from my, from my father.

I'm 59, so I'm a couple years old. I didn't know that my whole life. Well, we had the signature statistics that you just knew by heart. I don't know if there are tons of them because there wasn't, we had to, no, we had to memorize them because we couldn't just go look them up. True. Good point. You've only had like a book. Yeah.

Like Maris, like, I don't even know if kids know Maris now. Like, I don't know if they know. Even with the movie, I don't know if they know. They shouldn't. No one says they have to either. But, you know, I knew what Bob, I mean, I knew Bob McAdoo's. I knew what Bob McAdoo's. I knew what Bob Mac could do

what his average was at Buffalo when he won the scoring title. That was the whole point of the baseball basketball cards was they had the stats on the back. I was like, oh, quick more, what's age the best, Levinson and Scorsese, we mentioned. The actual YouTube clip of the entire show,

which I sent to you when Stemple throws the show with Marty, it's on YouTube. You can watch the whole thing, and it's kind of amazing to watch him. blow the answer and not be quite a good enough actor to pull it off, but nobody knew any better at the time.

But you can really see him intentionally doing it. Unbelievable screenwriting, man. Because as you know, that wasn't really the climactic moment of that episode. No. It kept going and going. But Paula Tenacio clearly realized, okay, that's drama. I can make a lot of drama out of that and he did it. Really great stuff.

Still need him to write that script about the 94 finals. what's age the best? Geritol, America's number one tonic. Just how I'm the present, Jarotol was. It's just so funny as we get older and these things that were huge for us once upon a time, like Kodak, Geratol, and these things just go away.

And it makes you think, like, what are the things now that 20 years from now, be like, yeah, Instagram, it's just gone. Just got sold for $5. Well, there were so many of those things, Bill. like bear aspirin and then there was that other one anison anison yeah I hadn't thought of that in 25 years so you just

Folger's coffee does Folgers coffee still exist Folgers they still yeah they still make jingles and shit but but like Bear Anderson was like as much as there was bear every bear it would be like bear and Annison now where did Annison go what happened to that guy? How about Woolworth we had on the East Coast we had Calders like the Caldores whatever

was called. Van Doren's dad, at one point in this movie, does the, they're talking about poker and he does the, if you can't spot the sucker at the table, you are the sucker routine. I was like, rounders, compliment. That was your homage. You grabbed it. Well, it's an incredible thing. He says it casually. It's amazing. Yeah. I, every time I see it in the movie, I'm like, I know that consciously, I remember when Dave and I wrote the line, we definitely weren't calling it to ourselves, but of course, that's the way this all works and we definitely heard the line in that movie because we'd seen the movie more than once.

I loved it. But I also love when Morrow goes, well, I don't know if I'm a gambler, but I don't know which end of an ace is up. Right. Same scene. Great shot, Gordo. What do you have?

Most cinematic shot. Yeah, I don't know. That was the one, probably the thing you already said, like that whole opening sequence where those moving camera shots throughout that whole thing where you feel like you're being just it's really editing,

but it is cinematography too, where the cameras, moving you all around NBC and the game show thing and it's kind of amazing, you know. I agree. I think it's multiple moments in that first scene. Chess Rockwell, Brocklanders Award, Best Character Name. Charles Van Doren. How is that a real name?

Incredible. It's like, how can we come up with the waspiest? Incredible. Most powerful sounding name ever. How about Charles Van Doren? The Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. I mentioned this already. but this is really from a rewatchable standpoint.

Just Herb Stemple, just a tough hang. If you're going to watch, you're one of the only people who have probably watched this movie 50 times, but Herbs like Herbs a lot. I can't argue. Herbs, Craig. Craig, will you come in for a second? Yeah. Herbs a lot.

Herb is a lot, but Herb is, you know, the little man. He's all of us. We all are all, we are all Herb, you know? We are all Herb. Yeah, Treter is great. Okay. I think Craig liked this movie. All right. Craig, we'll bring you back in a second.

What's Age the Worst? We mentioned Moro's Boston accent. Oh, did you have a weak link, by the way? You love this movie. You probably didn't. I don't really. What's age the worst? Moros Boston accent mentioned an Alzheimer.

Gerotol being important. So this sent me down a geratol rabbit hole to what happened to Jeratol. Yeah. They started in 1959 started getting investigated by the FTC because they were pushing this. Wait, and what year right after? You mean like right after this? Right as this was happening.

Yeah, it was a tough time. So they were basically saying like it was a remedy for tiredness and it made your blood stronger. But what they found out was it really was only effective for people with anemia. So then they had to disclose most people with fatigue, do not have iron deficiency, would not benefit from geratol, tough one.

Then they had a little comeback in 1972 with the ad, which I know you remember, where the guy looks at the camera and he's talking about his wife and he goes, my wife, I think I'll keep her. And all the,

everybody got pissed off and it was a controversial ad, but it actually worked. And they had a run basically until 1979. It finally ended now Geratolls. But yeah, that's it.

Nice little 25 year run for Geratoll selling basically a shaman product. It was like a fake product. Snake oil. It really was. Drink this. Your blood will be better. I mean, that's what's Griszi's saying

in the movie when he goes... I mean, I sell Gerithal. It's incredible. And then in the actual game show cover-up, I had this as a what's age or worst. It kind of fucked with quiz shows and game shows for a while. Like, they really, like, went into a major slump

and then came back during my childhood in the 70s. Ironically, one of the ones was Joker's Wild, which Jack Barry was the host of. But there was so much... so much scrutiny on how they did these shows and all these laws changed and they just became harder to do. So it fucked it up. It wasn't the only show. All right, the historical accuracy stuff while around what stage is the worst. They took three years of the scandal, compressed it into one. They made it Van Doren's choice to incorrectly answer question his own

choice, but it was actually NBC's. The score stuff was 21, 21. And then it just, the game kept going. They made it seem like it didn't when he took the title. Goodwin's, there's a lot of stuff about Goodwin's role in the investigation, which was less important than how the movie made it. That was where it got criticized, especially, this is right around the time they started going after each other with Oscar movies and PR campaigns. And they really played up how kind of this was, you know, the word was used was dishonest. I don't know if it was dishonest. But they really played with this Goodwin thing. I'm sure you've read about him a lot.

Oh, yeah. I mean, just one of the most, I mean, a guy was a speechwriter for JFK right there with Rodman. Robert Kennedy, Doris Kearns, Goodwin's husband, and she wrote this amazing memoir about him. I mean, Dick Goodwin was an incredible figure of the last century. But there was way more people that I think were doing the investigation than just him. So that was the issue. I went down the big rabbit hole on this.

And yeah, there were a bunch of dudes who actually did the legwork before Dick Goodwin got in there. He got even in there. And then the only other big one was that Vindoran did teach after the scandal. And it was the one issue he had with the movie. where he was like, dude, I kept teaching. Like, I don't know why you put that in the credit. He wrote this article in The New Yorker. I read it this morning.

Like, in 2008, Van Doren wrote this long article. And if you read it, like, if you're listening to this and you watch the movie, it's funny because he's trying to, it's one of those things where it's a guy writing to try to kind of defend himself. But you come away from that article and you think, yeah, he'd do the same thing again. Like, he had a huge ego.

and he wanted fame and money and power. And like, you can feel that he wouldn't have done much different, I don't think. I think you should have changed your name to Brian Van Koppelman. You're right. Is it too late? Like, better screenwriter name. Then you're like BVP. Like, I don't know.

You can call me BVP anytime you want. That's fine. We have, we're on the next category. Oh, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford Hotest Take Award. You probably don't have a hottest take, but I have one for both of us. Go, you give me the hot take.

I have won, but you go for it. Oh, you go. Ro team goes. Rob Maro should have become one of the world's biggest movie stars after this movie, like the alternate reality. I don't understand it. I don't know why he didn't just get cast

in the next. Why wasn't he the lead of fucking Jurassic Park or the next whatever? I think I might have an answer. Go ahead. I think there was a glut of really good actors under 40

that he would have had to compete with parts for and if you just put him in a time machine 20 years later he's probably better off like think all the people from that decade yeah you look

I mean you just rattled off all the guys who came I think you just said it to me it's like all the guys who came after because you just mentioned Matt and Ben but you didn't even mention I had another one

I didn't well Jude I had for recasting couch director of city what about young Russell Crow and the Rob Moro part right He would have killed it.

Like, we just had too many people in the 90s, and I think he got lost in the shuffle. How about Phillips Seymour Hoffman? Right. I mean, Walberg's in there, too, in Affleck, and you just, and Hanks is in his peak at that point, and, you know, it just goes on and on. So I think that might, and then Clooney comes out of nowhere.

In Val Kilmer's there. You just, it's like an embarrassment of riches. And I don't really know. It's, I've talked about this before. It's almost like one of those NBA stretches, like in the early 90s, when we just had Hall of Famers all over the place. It was like, Jesus.

What the hell? I think that's a real... I know some more always on TV, but I think you're right. But when I look at what he does in that movie, and maybe it is as simple as the accent that some people didn't like it and other people popped,

but I look at it and I'm like, I should have been a movie star. I agree with you. And I'm sure he agrees. My hat-as take is this. If this movie comes out one year later, it wins best film and best director. Wow.

What's the next year's movies? Remind me. Braveheart and Mel Gibson win in 95. And I think it beats both of those. And I think it would honestly have a pretty good case in 96 against English patient, English patient, which one movie director as well. I just think it was bad luck we're coming out this year. And especially with Redford and there might have been a tiny bit of Redford fatigue too at this point

because he had he'd made his movie come back. He'd done sneakers. He'd done a decent proposal. He'd done river runs through it. He was doing Sundance. And now Quishow. And I don't know.

If he had spaced it out two years, maybe. Casting what ifs? Redford won an American for Van Doren. Couldn't find anybody. Kind of honed in on William Baldwin for a second. Couldn't get there and settled on Ray Fines. we in Baltimore getting a lot of calls back then

this one killed me turned down the role of Mark Van Doren Paul Newman oh it's a Paul Newman role even the Connecticut of it all right yeah but it ends up being Schofield and it's really like one of the

Schofield's great I just as a Newman Redford of course aficionado of that relationship which we've talked about another rewatcher was that would have been really fun if Newman was the dead. I don't know if he would...

Why did he turn it down? Do they say? Did they have an answer? Didn't say. All right. And then Levinson was apparently originally attached to the project as a director.

Couldn't do it because he was doing Bugsy and then Redford just brought him in anyway. Then there's stuff online about Steven Soderberg allegedly with Tim Robbins as Charles Van Doren. I don't know. It didn't pass the sniff test to me. No, that's a... True or not true?

true. That's true. Okay. Why do you seem like you don't want to talk about it? Is that your guy? Robbins? No. I mean, I believe, I will say that I am not sure about the Tim Robbins part of that, but I do think that what you just brought up about who was supposed to do that movie is true. And it would have been incredible. If Soderberg directed it, it would have been incredible. Well, they were trying to make it for the early part of the 90s, so they probably went to a couple people, and then finally Redford wanted to do it, and that was that.

They asked Charles Van Doren if you would be a consultant and offer him at $100,000, and he said no. That's in this New Yorker article. His wife said she'd leave him if he said if he did it or something like that. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubenick Partridge overacting Award, Terturo dials it up a couple of times. I'm just out of criticism.

but if we're going for the overacting, you know, he tiles it up. Best that guy award, David Pamer, not eligible. I have one, but I want to know what you think it is. It has to be that guy. It can't be we,

like, normal people can't know his name. So who is it? There's a couple people at the poker game that I thought jumped out of me. Jack Gilpin, is it the poker game, Busfields at the park.

No, you got to give it to Hank's area because at the time, I think a lot of people, like, you got to give it to Hank. Hank is so fucking great in the movies. So your case is Hank was that guy at the time. I don't think Hank was famous yet like he is now. He'd barely done, like he, when did he come?

He came out two years later, right? He's a year later. Yeah, he's like a Simpson voice. That's it. Nobody knows what he looks like. And he's so good in the movie. Like he's so different than any other movie he's in. You just kind of believe he's that guy.

And he does all that show. Like when he walks in and he's like, he's, I think that their comic timing together. is amazing, but we're going to have a minute to talk about Pamer, right? And about that scene with Pamer and... What's do it right now? Well, for me, that's the other, like, not the most rewatchable scene,

but in a way, maybe the best scene, other than these couple we've mentioned, is when Rob Morrow tells Pamer, the acting performance that Pamer does when he's blowing him off, blowing him off, you know, you're a very, you know, like, you know, whatever young man like, And then he goes, yeah, the thing is he sent the answers to himself, registered mail. And like, everything changes on David Pamer's face.

And he just goes, he goes to sit down. Why would he do that? And then he sits down. And then he says, I'll never roll over on NBC. You know, if they knew and they didn't know, I'd never get back. And it's like that moment when you started with television is going to get us. You know, that's the moment where Rob Margo, I don't think you'll be working in the business again.

And Pamer's like, no, if I, if I tell them, if I, if I, if I, if I rat out NBC, I'll never work in the business again. But he knew if he kept his mouth shut. And he goes, television's all I know. It's my whole lie. And he, I don't know, there's something so, he's such a villain and such a scumbag, the character Dan Enright, the character he plays. And in that moment, though, you understand he has some kind of code.

And he's knocking around on these guys. And he somehow knows to Rob Marrow, like, hey, dude. you don't understand American business the way I do. And what I know about American business is if I just keep my mouth shut and American business will reward me for it. And then, you know, years later, that guy gets super rich.

Creates Joker was wild with Jack Barry, like you said. And those guys are on television for another 25 years. Right. He's really good in this movie. My answer for Best That Guy, controversial. It's Barry Levinson.

Love it. Okay, fine. Because if you don't know what a director looks like, which is basically the entire country, except for like a very select few. You see him in this movie, and it's like,

oh, it's a guy from the end of Rain Man. Right. Because that was the other movie he was in, right, where he plays Raymond? Yeah. Would you rather go?

The doctor. Would you rather live with your brother or go back to Overbrook, whatever it's called? Would you rather go to Sunnybrook or live with your brother? Would you want to live with your sonnybrook with your brother?

And he's just like, and Cruz is like, all right, that's enough. That's enough. But yeah, those are his two movies. I do love when directors are in movies. It's the best. Well, you've had, you dabbled.

I mean, sure. Yes. Yes, obviously I'm in stuff. I love being in stuff. I'm going to put you in my movie. I'm going to cast you in my movie that I haven't seen. I'm in. I had Dion Waiters Award.

Clearly, it's Hankas area. Love it. He's not in the movie that much. Every time he's in, he's thrown 98 miles an hour. I thought he was the winner. And then I mentioned recasting couch. young Russell Crow would have been really interesting in this. Catching him at a really cool point in his career

where nothing's really happened yet. I think he's the right age. Anyway, we'll take one more break and then we got a flex category from Craig. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes,

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What do you got? I don't know if this is a full Sasha Jenkins award for the actor. You can't believe they didn't become a bigger star, but it's a mini version of that. And I just want to shout out Christopher McDonald, who plays Jack Barry, who I just think is great every time I've seen him in a movie. He's obviously Shooter McGavin and he almost kind of got,

typecasted as that. But I just love him. I think he's got great timing. He's so slick. He's good looking. He can kind of do a lot. He's got a great sense of humor. I feel like maybe you guys can tell me he was a bigger star than I thought,

but I feel like he never really became a thing. He was not a bigger star than you thought. I don't really understand it. It feels like he just should have been on some hit sitcom for like seven years, just crushing it. Like the brother on everybody loves Raymond or something on top of doing all this movie things. But I think he's gotten this belated run, though, I think.

One notch too handsome to be a character actor, not quite a leading man and falls in this tweener. Tweener where he's neither. But he's great. I agree with you great. All the time, note perfect. It's a great call, Craig. But I think it's because he doesn't feel like he doesn't feel like a character actor,

but he is. And he's not quite a leading man because there's something so almost slick and smooth. And so it's kind of like, yeah, it just, he is just sort of imbent game show. You know why? He looks like a game show host. So he's really well cast shouting out that Bonnie Timmerman. I mean, he's so good. That scene where Goodwin, one of my favorite scenes is when Goodwin discovers the tell in the episode.

Oh, yeah. When he's watching the old tapes and he sees Jack Barry like stumble and the script is wrong, McDonald is so good in that. He's so natural to double take he does. And he's like, wait, with James Snodgrass moment. When the guy who gave the answers to himself, totally, man. I just also love those scenes in movies when one person notices something on the tape. Like, even it's like Joaquin Phoenix and signs when he lean, when he sees the alien.

Anytime somebody, like, sees something on tape, amazing scene. Anyway. Blue chips. No, man, not Tony. Not Tony. Tony's a good kid. The best moments. It's good kid.

Oh, how about an air? It's like an air when he's like, you're looking at it wrong. And he keeps pointing to Jordan. Yeah. Right. And they're looking at him. He's about to take the biggest shot of his life. Yeah.

I'm really glad we got to give out the Sasha Jenkins Award. I don't feel like we give that out enough. Can you remind me what that's from? It's from Dazed and Confused. He's Don Dawson, the guy with the overalls. Oh. And if you only watch Days in Confused, you would think Sasha Jenkins became one of the 10 biggest stars in the world.

That's right. He's hilarious. He's good looking. Like, he's like a funny Tim Riggins. And that was it. But Chris McDonald's way more, just to your point about whether he's a bigger story, I mean, way more famous.

Because Shooter McGavin and this movie are these cultural things. Yeah. I'm thinking he's way more famous than Sasha Jenkins. Yeah, it's weird. It worked out for him correctly. He's also really good and dirty work with Norma McDonald, which we've done. Norman, yeah. Yeah. All right, Craig, we'll see it at the end.

Half Fass Center research. We've done a few of these. Charles Van Doren drove a red Mercedes-Benz 300-SL roadster, which is now worth seven figures easy, if you can find one. 21 ran for three seasons peaked at number 21 in the ratings canceled in 1955.

Revived in 2000 with Mori Povich. I have no recollection of this. Do you remember that? No. Moripovich hosted 21? Literally don't remember that. Mid-90s, you and I weren't watching game shows? No, probably not.

And then you mentioned Barry and Enright go in exile. Enright moves to Canada. Barry doesn't host another national show for over a decade. They come back with Joker's Wild. in the early 70s. One of the many things I credit to the fact that I love to gamble, Joker's Wild.

Yes. Fantastic show. That and card sharks, two of my favorites. Unlike the 90s in the 70s, we were watching game shows. Oh, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

I mean, that was like one of our only connections to celebrities. We would come home from school and just watch game shows. Yeah. Like, yes.

Jokers Wild was tremendous and it made them very rich. Apex Mountain. Redford directed movies. Oh, wow. Yeah, I mean, for me, but river runs. A lot of people would say river runs through it, right? I would say ordinary people still.

Okay. I think that movie's amazing. I mean, for me, this, obviously, but I can't argue with that. It won the best picture, so how am I going to argue with it? Mary Tyler Moore is such a monster. I just, it was on, I watched the last hour of it. Don't ask me why a couple weeks ago. She's such a monster in that movie.

It's like her and Jack Torrance in The Shining, and they're like worse than Michael Myers and Jason Borgies. Did you cry? Did you cry? Just watching the last hour? Yeah, awesome. I got a little choked up. I got to be honest.

Awesome. I never cry when I watched stuff. Like the last episode of Task, there's a really sad scene in it. And I think it would have gotten me like 20 years ago. And it didn't 100% get me. No, I just like really hard to make me get choked up. You get choked up when you watch that?

Yeah, but it depends. I got to be, yes. It can, yeah, yes. I could still. Yeah, something great. Like, if something's great, it can still get me like. But, yeah, we have our defenses are more up now because you get a little older, it costs you more after you

when you go through something like that. Right, true. Ray finds, it's probably English patient, but it's right around here because he made strange days a year after, which is one of the many hilarious, like, hacking movies from the mid-90s. No, but Aymong Go. No, Amon Goeth is his high point, right? Schindler's.

Yeah, but it's more like the, I always have to explain to Epic's Mountain. It's when did he have the juice where he could have done whatever movie he wanted? It's right around here. Right. Because English patient's 96. This is late 94.

So it's somewhere in this mix. Paul Schofield, the answer is no. 1960s would be for him. Jack Barry. I don't know. I mean, everybody watched TV in 1958. I can't imagine like he was more famous than right here. No, your response answer is really good.

I like your answer. Chris McDonald's. Probably happy Gilmore. Geritol, definitely. Because it all comes crashing down in 1959. The Habsburg lip, which gets mentioned as when Ray finds us throwing it. Did you know what a Habsburg lip was?

No. And there's a jaw, too. I did Google Deep dive. I didn't know about all this inbreeding with this one world family and it made their jars, Carnar Sartor and this. And I look like this. Primo Carnera. Maybe Primo Carnara.

Primo Carnera. Might be. Might be that, maybe that moment. Yeah. Nepo Babies, probably not. No. Quiz show movies, yes. Because I can't think of a better quiz show movie.

Terturo, no. Horrific Boston accents in a movie. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to say it's the worst. Okay, how about cigars in a movie? No, there's been better cigar movies. I guess, but Sorvino was before, yes, Sorvino and I guess Sorvino and, uh, here's my big one. Rob Morrow, who's still on Northern Exposure at this point when this movie comes out. And yet it's not as Apex Mountain, because his Apex Mountain was in 1992 as Northern Exposure was

exploding. And he hosted Saturday Night Live with musical guest Nirvana. Wow. Yeah. That's it. That's like the definition of Apex Mountain. It was their first appearance. Um, and, uh, pretty good, Bill. He's still in the TikTok Instagram. He's like, ladies gentlemen, Nirvana. And then they just kick in a smell it smells like teen spirit. Cruiser, Hanks. Who do you have? Cruz. Cruz. No, I know. Cruz. Cruise. Cruise for what part? I think Cruz. as Dick Goodwin would have been kind of amazing. I think it's Cruz and Hanks,

and Cruz is yuppie Van Doren, Hanks is Goodwin. But if you think about Cruz in the mode from Rain Man where he's just like a heart, like in this where he's this like killer guy like in the beginning of the movie when he's like, they're making fun of him in the,

all right, okay. I think he over-cruises the movie. Okay. Wait, Craig, come on for this. I think Cruz comes in he's right in the he's insane he made a few good men

a year before he's still in that cruise over the top I gotta have one or two scenes where I do cruise stuff and I don't think he pulls it back

I don't think he had the ability to pull it back enough as good one what do you think Craig? I think he just makes more sense as like the slick

East Coast wealthy I think he could pull that off as the son as Van Dora but he never I don't think he I think he chose

his role so smart but just so intelligently because I don't think he plays a guy who spent all that time in the library that Charles Van Doren did. That's fair. I don't know if he has that bookish appeal,

maybe. I don't know if he could pull that off. So I was gonna say it. He studies in the firm, but it's like they're making me study. You know, I got a study, but you never feel like he's a guy who loves learning for the sake of learning,

which is that's the whole thing about these, you know, like Van Dorn did know. That's that great moment when And Terturo's like, say a number, you know, and then he rattles off. It's like these people did know an incredible amount of shit. They were really smart and educated. They just unfortunately were human. I was going to go late 80s, Hanks as Vendoren.

And he kind of, I think, I can't remember the movie. Maybe it was Volunteers where he played like a wealthy, like hoity-toity kind of character like this. But I think he could have done it. So you say, Craig, you said Hanks or Cruz? I'll go Hanks. I've been convinced that it's Hanks. All right. Hanks wins. Scorsese or Spielberg? Ironically, Scorsese is in this. Who better director? I'm going to say Spielberg for this.

Compliments. Wheels turn. Curtis Hanson. No, it's Scorsese or Spielberg. I think Curtis Hansen. I would say Scorsese. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? he would have been the best

freaking Charles Van Doren whoever Charles Van Dorned it's funny I think he could have played either the Azaria or the Pamer part I think he absolutely could have played either Van Doren because older Philip Seymorhoffin easily could have played the dad

amazing yeah yeah he could have pick a point in his left but yeah I think that Charles Van Doren like the early version when he was skinnier like mid-90s maybe probably could have done it I mean, my favorite, probably my favorite actor who ever lived, so. Pick a knits. Oh, yeah.

Why didn't Herb just take the $69,000 at the start of the show and stop playing? Oh, I'm saying, you and I have the same knit, which is how did the money work? My knit is how did the money work? They never explain. What are you risking? They keep saying it's like, you risk it all if you play again. Like, okay. Because the real.

They want me to lose anyway. I'll take 70. Did you go look this part up? I know you do all the internet recent. I looked it up. I know the answers to some of this. So what's the answer? They had side deals, man. Because it was rigged, they had side deals.

So Herb wasn't getting 70. He really was getting like 35K. Like they all made agreements that there was a give back and there was a certain amount they were really getting like appearance fees. Like someone got 25K to be on the show, Van Doren. Like they would pay you certain amounts of money as opposed to the prize money. The prize money was another fiction. But they never in the movie explained when they go, you're risking it.

And even when we watch that thing, a point, but what does that mean? They don't explain how the money works, which today you would have to. People would drive you too crazy if you were making the movie. You'd have to explain it. But the movie works without it.

But if I had to pick a knit, that's my knit too. Yeah, I mean, the bigger thing with this movie is back then, people actually really did care about what they were learning with the answers. There's still a Jeopardy audience that really cares about the actual facts and the questions and the things they're answering.

But the society we have now with reality TV, these shows, like the wall, or the show where the ball just bounces down and maybe goes into a hole. It's really about how much money somebody wins and they just get dumber and dumber and dumber for the goal of just winning money. This was like a completely different era.

100%. Like Scorsese says, just to make the questions, dumber. He lays it out. He lays it out in the movie. It's exactly what happened. The Ruben sandwich thing was another nitpick for me. I don't, to say only one person ever invented,

a sandwich is fucking insane. Of course. I could invent a sandwich right now. What about the Earl of Sand? What about the Earl of Sandwich? Million sandwiches. The Earl of Sandwich invented a sandwich? Right. And then my last nitpick was not nearly enough cigarette smoking, and it must be some

sort of weird Redford thing. I think in the 1950s, everybody was smoking four packs a day, including all of the parents of my parents. Like, I just think there just should have been cigarette smoke everywhere, and Redford must have just hated cigarette smoke. is my guess. What do you have for nitpicks, anything? No, I had the money.

Okay. That's what I had written down. Sequel prequel prestige TV, all blackcasts are untouchable. The prestige TV thing would be interesting if you brought in some of the other shows and the weird shit that was going on because there were other shows that were cheating to.

1950s corrupt television. Yeah, it was May. I mean, I guess Maysell touched on some, not the corruption, but in that era of showbush. Yes, you could make a prestige series about this. I don't know if I'd watch it, but you could do it. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Mad Dog Russo, Dorisberg, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson,

Nell, Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel, Plainview, long legs, or Wilford, Brimley in the firm. I was thinking Teddy KGB is Herb Stemple. You want to do it? I was just trying to set you up for a Teddy KGB. Just as simple saying like pay me my money instead of pay that money. No, at the end, I guess he would say about Van Doren. Instead of saying they never leave you alone until they're leaving you alone,

he would say pay that man as money. Sure. The man's got alligator blood. I can't do it. I've got a terrible Russian accent. Just one Oscar who gets it. We agree it's the screenplay. Paula Tenacio.

Yeah. Right? Absolutely. 100%. Over Redford? Yeah. Schofield's the number two for me. unanswerable questions.

What was Geritol? I already answered it. It apparently made your blood stronger or something or you feel fatigue and this will, it's basically a caffeine pill? Mine is what would Charles Van Doren's life have been like if he never went and got on that game show? Not her. Herbie's life.

Herbie's life is clear. But if Charles Van Doren just doesn't, like if Charles Van Doren's, says what you just said he should say. If he just says I'm not answering that question because I know it already. You already gave me that question in the audition.

If he says it, what happens to his life? Van Doren. He becomes a hero. Yeah, he becomes president of a university. He's Larry Summers. Right. Could 21, would you watch 21 right now if it came back in 2025?

I think I would not. if Kimmel's hosting and it's like millionaire and it's... Kimmel's a really good host for game shows. I mean a good host in general but it's good game show host.

I mean if Kimmel's hosting, I might give it a whirl. Okay. And then we already answered what would you do if you're in this situation? We think the answer is you flip it on them and you say. I mean,

listen, we've both been in situations where we've spoken out even at risk to ourselves. We both have done it. So I like to think The Soderberg, you blew his cover. He got off with the movie.

You said that and I did not say anything, except that he would make a great movie. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I'd take the painting of the dad. Same scene. Same scene, different answer. I want the silverware box. You want all the silverware.

Okay. The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. Speculation in our society has a way of becoming fact. Pretty true. my answer would be not till you have a kid of your own. Hmm. Best double feature choice?

What do you got? Brasco. Oh, I like that. I was going to say the English patient, you could just go, you could find it up. Yeah, I think Brasco might be better, though, because of the team had a better answer.

Thing, yeah. Who won the movie? I'm going to say Redford, because I think this was the last really, really cool thing he'd directed, but kind of the end of this, this renaissance that we talked about in sneakers, where, you know, he had it in the 70s, obviously, then the 80s made that come back and

did the natural and out of Afro and was just on the present again. And then the 90s had this one last run as a movie star, as a director, with Sundance. And this is kind of the tale of it. All right, time to bring in Craig. Can't wait. I have no idea. I feel like he liked it. He seems in a good mood.

I did like it. I really hadn't heard of this movie and probably because it got shadowed by all the other great stuff that came out in 94. But I love all the movies about... There are certain movies where the industry looks inward on itself that I think should be required viewing for people who are studying media or film majors or whatever.

Like my double feature would be network or the player, stuff like that. I love all that type of inward-looking stuff. What I really enjoyed about this movie was that... Like the themes got stronger throughout. In the beginning, it was a little bit more of just like, oh, there's a game show that's cheating. And then by the end, the themes are so much bigger than that.

And I really like the ending. I didn't know how it was going to end. I obviously, I knew it was a true story, but I didn't know what actually happened. I was really happy it wasn't just the montage of like the tropeiness of the people all going to jail or everybody gets locked up. And I enjoyed that it was actually the Van Doren confession was commended by everybody. And all of the themes just resonated much harder the way it ended. Because it kind of ends on this, this icky feeling at the end. And I didn't exactly know where it was going.

So I appreciated that. And I mean, yeah, being tricked by mass media, nepotism, classism, all this stuff is very resonant today. So I love that. That was great. It's a good point. In 2025, this movie is still awesome to watch because of all the themes that are in the movie. all of them are still relevant, literally all of them.

I mean, like, the advent of television and kind of the idea of what is reality, I mean, you could even make that parallel to like AI right now, where it's like the advent of AI is also kind of now changing what reality is and everything is under the guise of entertainment. Yeah, the only thing I want to say at the end of this, I agree with everything you're saying is that,

if you just, Paul Atanasio is the last time, I just want to say, like, I don't know, you know, I said I spoke to him today, but we're not like friends. But that guy, I mean, what co-creates house, right, with David Shore. So he invents that character, which makes total sense

that he made these geniuses up and he made that genius up. Co creates homicide. Yeah. writes Brasco, that guy is not nearly as famous as he should be. He is one of the titans of screenwriting.

And in a way, a successor to Goldman in lots of ways. Like, he's right up there with Scott Frank and Tony Gilroy, I think, like one of the true greats. And this movie in Brasco together are really

a very rare accomplishment. Also, I think what's aged the worst is 60 million people watching a game show every week. That's half of the Super Bowl every week. Bill, did you say it was 24? Are you sure it the highest that ever got in the ratings

was like 20 something? They said 60 in the movie. 60 million. So no, but I'm saying, Bill was... No, but it was the 21st big... Yeah, there were 20 bigger shows at over 60 million. That's crazy, man.

That's unbelievable. Unfathomable. There was nothing else to do. Like it was radio or TV or you went to a movie. Or you saw a sporting event. People watched bowling on Saturday afternoons or whatever. Pretty crazy. Well, that's it for Redford Month.

I know there's one week left in the month, but we do a horror movie every year in the last week of October. I'm dreading that. Yeah, Craig doesn't like horror movies. Me, I don't either. Yeah. I'm trying to convince CR to do Halloween, too.

I can handle that. Now that we have the new studio and we have the giant Myers poster in the studio and Myers is right there, I feel like we have to pay homage. But I don't know. We're still hashing it out.

Anyway, that's coming next week. Produced by Craig as always. Thanks to Ronick and thanks to Gohout as well. Thanks to Brian Coppulman. You're almost a member of the 10 timers club. Well, listen,

you're so close. I can't thank you. I think this is nine. I think this is the ninth time. I know. You got one. more. All right. Listen, I gotta say, I really, I know you did this partially because you knew much it meant to me. And it really does. I love this movie so much and I want people to do it.

And Bill, as always, you're a great friend. Thanks, everyone for this. This is a great movie, though. I'm glad you forced us to do it. Nick's prediction before we go over over over. You called me and you said 52 and a half, right? I got to go over. I love that you guys had had cat at like 16. Oh, you guys. Ring. Ringer. 100, yeah. Yeah. I had certain, as you know, I had certain issues

with the ringer 100, but, uh, yeah, a couple things. But, but I love that you guys had both cat and Jalen in really nice spots. Do you have a Steelers prediction for Craig?

The four and two Steelers? I know, I know, I know, I know where they are. Um, good luck, Craig. Craig,

I think it's a three-way. I'm a jet's horrible from a Jets fan. You know how bad is? I said last week that you should bet the Ravens to win the, the NFC. Can you guys explain to me why? I know this is off-subject, but I just want to understand it.

What is the logic that people rarely fire NFL coaches during the season? I've never understood it. Can you explain it to me? I think it's too big of a... It's too hard with how the schedule of the games is, right? It's just a terrible look.

You're tanking the season. You're torpedoing the vibe in the locker room. It's just like you just blow everything up. But when you're 0 and 6 and there's just no sign of any possibility. Dan Campbell, when he came to the Lions, I think he started 0 and 8 or 1 in 10. Aaron Glenn has been bringing that up over and over again.

He's like, hey, Dan Campbell. You think Aaron Glenn's going to be there at the start of the season next year? I mean, probably not. After that London game, I'm a little dubious after the clock management. It's hard with the culture guys. The culture guys take time

and you kind of have to build that up so you really have to find a front office that will commit to you. Yeah. All right, Craig. Craig, I think the AFC North comes down to Baltimore and Pittsburgh in week 18. It's just preordained. There's no way. I don't know what their records have to be, but it's just going to come down to that game. No. I think it's going to be Sunday night. They're both going to be nine and eight or nine and seven and they will be playing each other. That's correct. All right. Frank Koppelman, thank you. Craig. Thank you. We'll see you next week. Bye everybody.

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