The Rewatchables - ‘Rocky II’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan feel like a Kentucky Fried idiot after rewatching their 12th Sylvester Stallone movie on The Rewatchables, ‘Rocky II,’ also starring Carl Weathers and Talia Shire. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, and Eduardo Ocampo A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller, and the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. The rewatchable is brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network. We can find the watch with Chris Ryan.

Here I am. Big hit episode with Vince Gilligan. Yeah. Was it a hit? It seemed like it was a hit. People want to know about Pluribus. Yeah. Have you checked it out over the Thanksgiving weekend?

I'm saving it. Okay. Oh. It's good. Really good. Yeah. Van Lathen, Higher Learning. Absolutely.

Ringer Tailgate. Red Hot show right now with all the LSU drama. Going crazy. So much happening. And then the Pupu. Pew Pugh. Me, my boy. I forgot the name of the podcast.

I'm actually the new. head coach of North Texas. I'm going to be leaving the ringer. You like that? You're going over there to take the job? Yeah. Before we get to the pod today, somebody sent me a video.

Somebody went through all of the HBO movies from the 80s and how many times they aired and did a top 50. It's on YouTube. I'll tweet it out of the room. This is my... This is right up my alley. Where did they get this data?

He went through somehow every single week of HBO programming. A couple highlights. Eddie and the Cruiser, 16th. Most airings. 80 and the Cruises I don't know if that was too high or too low. It was just on all the time.

I thought this was HBO original movies. Okay, my bad. Victory. Fifth. Long Wolf McQuaid, I thought it was going to be really high. It was only 37th. I thought that was disappointing.

The distortion field of your own nostalgia. Number one, Bill Cosby himself. Yeah, it was on all the time. It was a devastated number one. It was 25 minutes. It was so into this clip. But you got to keep it real, though. man.

And it was like, what's the number of movie going to be? And it was Bill Cosby himself. I'm shocked. This list hasn't been publicized before. Yeah.

And you gotta keep it real. Remember the bit about the sun playing football from Bill Cosby himself? It was on all the time. He was on all the time. Woody Allen's Manhattan, number two with a bullet.

Eddie and the Cruiser's 16. The streets are just shouting for the rewatchables. We just needed somewhere streaming. What an odd way. We have tuby, we have Audi, we have Pluto. One of these places can't do it.

Pump up the volume without a streaming option. Do you feel? feel like people just have to be able to see it, though. It's, I want people to see it. You've seen it, right? Eddie and the Cruises, of course. Okay. Mike.

Have you seen Eddie and the Cruises, too? Eddie lives? I don't like that movie as much. I don't like when we go to Canada with Eddie, and he's working construction. Not on my list. That did not make the top 50. A movie that we're about to do is our 12th Sylvester Stallone movie, a movie we've been circling for a while.

Rocky 2 is next. This episode of The Rwatchables is presented by a state farm, Whether you're debating watching that award-winning sports drama or re-watching your comfort buddy comedy movie for the 10th time, choices are important. When it comes to choosing coverage, a State Farm agent can help you find options that are right for you. Go online at StateFarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. All right, guys, it's our 12th Sylvester Stallone movie. Rocky 2.

We've done 3, we've done 4, we've done 1, we've done Creed. Yeah. having done too. I'm going to go through the Stallone movies we've done. He's now tied for fourth all time. This is a great example of executive unitary theory where this is like you put in your, with your sheer act of will, just making Stallone top four for us. Arguably not enough Stallone.

Oh, what do we make it? You could save like there's five we haven't done. I like daylight. I like lockup. Delight's lockup? I like Nighthawks. Oh, Nighthawks is cool. I'm not hot star.

So he's tied for fourth all time now with Denzel. Here's what we've done. So we did Rocky, the most important Stallone movie. We did Rocky 3, I think the most entertaining. Rocky 4, the most 80s. Yeah, personification of 80s. First Blood, I think the best 80s. Best 80s, what?

Best 80s is a Stallone movie. Okay. Victory, most underrated. Beloved. Cobra, most ridiculous. Over the top, best bad movie he's ever made. Tango and Cash, guilty as a pleasure. Oh, Tangle and Kass.

Cliffhanger, I think, his best 90s movie. Copley in his biggest swing. Creed, best 21st century movie he made. Yeah. So what is Rocky 2? Rocky 2. Rocky 2 is the most important of the Rocky movies to me. Oh, explain.

So I was trying to figure out why I like Rocky 2 so much. Like I told you, I like the movie. Yeah. I love it. It's one of my favorite ones. It's not a hot take. The last 28 minutes of the movie. Of Rocky 2 or Rocky 1 you're talking about?

Rocky 2. So there's two reasons why I like the movie so much. Number one, this movie plays like an HBO 24-7 episode. Yeah. So when you watch HBO 24-7, it's a slice of life. This is what I'm buying. These are the commercials that I'm going to. This is the life of a pro-fighter.

And then at the end of it, it's the fight. And this is how that movie really is. There's really not much plot happening. It's like a long HBO 24-7 movie. And then where, Whereas Rocky stands alone as this, the original Rocky, shall I say, stands alone as this incredible dramatic achievement. This movie is kind of the actual beginning of the Rocky franchise as this being a sports action movie franchise. The first one is a very small drama and it's more about, you know, the life of this guy and this big shot that he takes.

But this movie is the movie where you're in this world and the world is forming for the lore of Rocky to deepen and become what it's going to become. And I like this version of it, the over-the-top, super-muscled, us against the Russians, that's the Rocky that I like more than the understated version of it. What do you have, C.R?

Yeah, I mean, I think that this movie for me, VAMICs really good point, that this is like the beginning of the Rocky saga and the Rocky franchise. What I like so much about Rocky, too, is that it is essentially a remastered version of Rocky. It's essentially a remake. I mean, you know, you start with,

but I call it a remastered version because in the first 10 minutes are essentially the end of Rocky with some technical embellishments. I think they're using the same footage, but I believe that they ran it through some processing to make it look a little bit better. They did some insert shots. And then for the most part, beat for beat,

the story is relatively the same. A guy who's down in his luck who finds a girl, who finds a trainer, who finally finds the will to fight against impossible odds. And then everything for the last 30, 40 minutes is right out of Rocky. essentially in terms of like the training, the montage, the entrance to the fight, everything like that.

You just have some different emotions going on there. So yeah, I think that this is an example of something I wish Hollywood almost would try more of, which is essentially the sequel that is just a remake. You know, it's interesting because I don't feel like we talked about sequels before and rewatchables. Like somewhere in the late 70s into the early 80s, sequels became, oh, we should expanding. This is like a huge money opportunity.

we should do this. This was like the purest form of a sequel where Rocky, the original one, had a beginning, middle, and end, and it was supposed to end. And then people loved the character and won the Oscar. And then everybody was kind of like,

can this guy come back? I just want to hang out with Rocky Moore. Yeah. Because I saw this in the theater. I remember what, it was another one. I remember I went with my best friend, Reese Genser, Cleveland Circle,

and it was the only... I heard Reese before. What did these names? Where'd Reese go? What happened to Reese? He was my best friend and first, second, third, fourth grade. What do you do? What do you, though?

He dropped schools, and that was it. All right. So, what happens? Switch schools and there's no more Reese. I mean, I'm sure he exists. So what is it up to? I'm sure he's doing great. I don't know.

So Reese has never reached out? No, we exchanged emails a while ago. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. What do you say? How come you never talk about me? I'm doing. He's like, Reese is like,

Reese is listening to a bunch of pods. Yeah, he's like, we saw Rocky two together. Yeah. Maybe we'll reach out again. Okay. But we saw that. and it was the only time in my life, I remember, and I think I've talked about this before,

the entire theater cheering like it was a real sporting event. Like, for real. Yeah. And it was a lot of kids, and everybody just wanted Rocky to win, and people, it was like we were on close circuit watching, like, Leonard Hurons. Are you going to make a...

No. Go ahead. This is Boston, no, right? Yeah, they wanted Rocky to win. They brought it. They won a Rocky to eat out of victory. And the double knockdown was an all-time. I'm like, oh my God.

And they did a really good job of the announcer going, although they bent the rules. But it's like, whoever gets up first and you're just like, they set the stakes perfectly. And everyone went nuts when he won. Like nuts. I got to be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I think that I may have spent some of my,

a significant part of my life thinking Rocky 2 was Rocky 1. Oh. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not sure if I even saw it. I mean, they kind of merged together in a one giant movie. You know what's funny? When we did Rocky 1, when I rewatched it,

I kept waiting for the scene where Mickey tells Rocky that he shouldn't fight Apollo because... His eye. Because of his eye, because he's too slow. If I can get that shout on you,

think about what Creed would do to you, he's going to hurt you permanent, but it's actually in the second movie. Yeah. Yeah, I think they do bleed together. They are one A and one B of one big movie in some ways. It's an interesting from a rewatchable standpoint.

There's a reason we waited to do it because, you know, when you see it the first time, second time, third time, but after 45, 50, almost 50 years of this movie, there's about an hour where you're like, I think I'm good. Yeah, you know, I would call this. The coma scene's 11 minutes.

This is only rewatchable in the sense that if you do not know where it's going, it is unwatchable. Like, if you are watching this for the first time or the first time in a really long time, you're like, holy shit. Nothing's happening. How many jobs is this guy going to get and get fired from? And then now Adrian's in a coma.

It feels like... He's reading to her again. It feels like a series of deleted... scenes on YouTube. It's like deleted scenes, Rocky 2, but it's the actual movie for 45 minutes. But back to your point, it assumes that you care so deeply about the character.

Yeah. Because if you don't, you just don't care about Adrian getting her part-time job at the pet shop back. Yes. It assumes a deep connection to the characters. And at the end, that's kind of why it works. It's because when he's holding that belt at the end of the movie, all of those feelings just come pouring out of you.

It's kind of brilliant. how they do it, but I don't know how rewatchably fun it is to watch his dignity just get stripped away. Watching him in the meatpacking plant or getting rejected at the town agency. Doing the boxing gym. That's a big nitpick for me too.

And the guy's a big niping for me to. Huge nipig. Why? He's too famous to work as a trainer. Number one. Or not even a trainer. I've been in a lot of... In a lot of boxing gyms

all over this city and other cities, he just would not be treated that way. They would not treat it. him like that. Like up at field, sometimes Zab Jood will come in. Donner Dragon Wilson will come in. It just doesn't matter. He would not. Guys who have even had like five or ten pro fights, you looked at as like a different species in a gym like that. And there are other pros in there. He just, they wouldn't, they would, in no way shape or form somebody that just went to war like that, what they have treated

him that way. Well, the good news is that's not even one of the ten most ridiculous things in this movie, including that he's blinded in his right eye and goes 15 rounds with with Creed. this was a big movie for Stallone, because between Rocky 1 and 2, comes out with Fist. When was the last time you cranked out Fist? I'm not sure I've ever seen Fist.

Yeah, does Sean even own Fist on Blu-Rae, you think? On Own Fist. Maybe Black Friday sale in the Kino Lorber site, Sean's grabbing Fist, 78% off. We should live call Sean and be like, do you own this on 4K? He definitely does.

So Fist bombed, and then he directed and starred in Paradise Alley, which seemed good on Pays. but that also flopped. Is that like a great depression kind of comedy? I've never seen that. People are like, can you just be Rocky again? Yeah. But he uses that to his advantage.

Yes. Right? So, I mean, you tell the story of the making the film, but... Yeah, I can do that quick. Completes the screenplay in 77. Calls it Rocky 2 Redemption. Mm. Strong title. Mm-hmm.

It's supposed to get John Aviltson and direct, but he's doing Saturday and Afeber. A good movie that we've done on the rewatchables. Alvinson later says he's I wasn't super pumped to just remake the same movie. Yeah. But it had conversations with Stallone about some interesting wrinkles that Rocky's character could go through that we can talk about later. Stallone basically says, I have to direct or I'm not going to be involved.

Studio breaks. $7 million budget. He gets a lot of points. And it becomes the highest grossing sequel ever. It holds the record until Empire Strikes Back two years later or one year later. $7 million budget makes $200.1 million and then is on cable for the next 48 years. This is about as good as it could be for him

and sets up the 80s for him, more importantly. It sets up Nighthawks, Victory, First Blood, Rambo, everything. It sets up the next 15 years of him being an A-plus lister because he proved people wanted to come back to C. Slice Stallone. It's interesting, though, he's like a heavier... I don't know what happened between Rocky 2, and victory basically two years later. But his face...

You don't know what happened? Well, I don't know whether he just like stopped eating bread or... What do you think happened? Well, he got thinner. You think he had surgery? He's on steroids. But he's big...

I think he was on steroids in one and two, though. Oh, but his body... Better steroids? It's 70s steroids. It's pretty weird. Oh, like the 70s make you water... Well, he starts...

He probably has more money, has a different steroids he can get. He gets more into it and then things are changing along those fronts. But obviously by the time Rocky used steroids, Zodrago did. True.

Rocky Ford's he's doing natural. He's just lifting blocks. That's right. He's lifting Polly in the sled. Mm-hmm. But yeah, so he's, it's kind of a doier, very 70s Stallone.

But the size is coming along. And by the time three comes, he's like an action figure. He's like not, he's he-made. He's one of those people in Rocky 1 and 2. you could have told me he was 6-4 and I could have believed that he was a little kid

but he was really like what, 5, 7 and a half? Yeah, small. Casting, whatever. What do you think? Do you have a steroids take, Craig? Rocky? I don't know how much, if he was on steroids were we prepared for this?

Yeah. But he's 100 million percent on steroids in 3 and 4. You can't look like that. Four. Yeah. The whole, he's, his whole body. In 3, he's like fully oiled up

all the time in 3. By the time we get to even first blow apart 2. Yeah. It's obvious that he's. He's training hard and he's awesome. He could be natural in one and two, maybe. So the big calling card of this movie, as it was on marathons forever and ever,

was how good the last 28 minutes are. The moment we get Mick going, what do we wait for? This is the best movie of all time. It might be the best run of a rewatchable movie. Every single moment is perfect. It might be the best running in film history. You know what?

I'm so shocked. I'm so shocked at how moved I was rewatching it. The scene just works. It's timeless. It's classic. Just rocky running with all the kids. After all of this time, it should not be moving. But you want the guy to win.

You want that guy to figure his life out. I still don't think I want him to beat Apollo. But he's running with the kids. And the scene gets the whales out of you. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. I was the exact same age of those kids.

kids. And I think that might have been the coolest moment of my life to that point. Just the chance that kids my age got to run with Rocky, like broke your brain. It's like, oh, I'm so jealous of all 800 of these kids, specifically the one the one who turns into Carl Lewis for like two seconds,

trying to keep up with them. One of the great athletes in the history. He runs right by my old little league field on the parkway there. Oh, you show me. Yeah. Show me when we were in Philly. There's some controversial how long he ran that we'll get into later. But that kid who keeps up with them I would also say his pace is unsustainable

He's sprinting I just thought about a young bill In Boston Like stalking out joggers Trying to run behind Wishing that like Gordy Howell Coming out of a store With six cases of beer

You're just playing in Philadelphia And Rocky's running by And you're like Come on let's join him And he's got a whole In this jogging pack There's no Ebert review of this movie but on TV

Siskel said he loved it and that he was looking forward to Rocky 3 that it is Siskel and Iber Ebert said I really did enjoy it and he thought the sequel's fight scene was better but the big thing is he wrote a piece about watching this with Mahra Ali very cool very cool piece

it's on the Ebert site I guess maybe that's why he didn't review it is because he wrote a feature which is did he write a lot of features that was a pretty unusual piece it's a pretty famous Ebert piece and Ali had not gotten the tarbee out of him by Holmes yet, so he was still

relatively coherent. Some of the Ali highlights, he, you know, obviously identified with Apollo Creed. He said Apollo sounds like me insulting the opponent in the press to get him psyched out. That's me exactly. He criticized Stallone's boxing, says it's good

acting, it's not boxing, and he points to the guy in training in the background says, that guy in the red trunk's back there, you can see he's a real fighter. This was interesting. He talked about he don't feel like fighting because his wife is sick. That's the truth. The same happened to me when I was in training camp during one of my divorces. You can't keep your mind

on fighting when you're thinking about a woman. I don't know if this is true for your training. For me? It helps me to think about women. It helps you. Okay. Different only fans models. But he, they're watching. Right. He says, I predict she's

going to get well and then Rocky's going to beat the hell out of Apollo Creed. That was a mid-movie. I'll leave prediction. He said there's no way Apollo could hang, could Rocky could hang with Apollo. He was jealous of master and disaster. And then he had this quote, For the black man to come out superior would be against all America's teachings.

I have been so great in boxing. They had to create an image like Rocky, a white image on the screen to counteract my image in the ring. America has to have its white images no matter where it gets them, Jesus, Wonder Woman, Tarzan, and Rocky. Wonder Woman. How she get thrown into it? I don't know. That was all these take. That was all these to be there. I don't know where. They decided not to put that blurb on the poster. Okay. for Mali. But those were his takes.

So when you watch the movie, you're just blown away at how good of an athlete Carl Weathers is. It's ridiculous, right? Carl Weathers moves like a fighter, throws punches like a fighter. He also looks like a fighter

when he's just wearing a suit, moving around his house and moving through life. Yeah. Obviously, Rocky was going to win the spirit and then the non. I'm not giving up all of that stuff. That's what the movie is about.

Like when you go back, that's kind of the deal you're making with the film is to like suspend the disbelief that Rocky could beat any of the opponents that he's ever fought. I will say I find Apollo Creed in this movie to be fascinating. Well, he doesn't

smile, I don't think, once in the movie. He's so angry. He, the scene, and we'll talk about it later, but the scene where they're trying to convince him not to do this, where everyone is completely afraid and he is so resolute, he's not angry at all. He's fixated on what he has to do.

and him overcoming this and then falling short and not being able to do it when Apollo slumps down and can't get up, gutting, just didn't have... Then raises the arm at the end. And then raises the arm at the end. Like, just his entire perspective in the movie, the reading of the hate mail, all of that,

kind of an interesting look at the modern athlete and the kind of chances they take to protect their legacy. Like one of the first times a movie really did it that I can connect to. He's all wrong for us, baby. Beat that man, and he just kept coming. He kept coming.

I'm going to say on this later. Yeah, it's funny. Watching, knowing how the rest of the Rocky series goes, and he's so much fun in Rocky 3, Apollo Creed. There's no sign of that in Rocky 2. He just is, like, so fucking mad that Rocky almost beat him. The hate mail makes him so mad. All he wants to do is destroy the guy.

and he's just like this really angry, vindictive character, and then Rocky 3 just see a whole other side. It's also like right at that moment where I feel like these guys are on camera, not just when they're competing, but when they're building up to fights or building up to any events.

And so he's also like playing three different characters. So the character in the ring, the character at home, and the character was just being filmed at press conferences and any kind of public appearances. And so he always has like these little shades to the way he's performing, weather's, I mean, that's just incredible.

It's funny, as a kid in the 70s, it never occurred to me what an Ali impersonation it was, because the only champ I really knew was Ali. So I just thought all champs acted like this. Sure. But now as the years passed and you watch it, it's a very, like, interesting Ali slash Hollywood hybrid character. There's a lot of Ali in it, especially the way he cares him, the way he talks, like some of the words he uses.

Yeah. Yeah. He's like a businessman. He's charismatic. He's like, it's, we talked about this with the first movie, too. It's an interesting juxtaposition because, you know, Rock is really in the hood with criminals. Yeah. With his homeboy sister.

Yeah. Like in Philly where when you look at Creed. The singers around the garbage can. The singers. What happened to that? The doo-op. The doo-op guys, you know, the warming. They just like to hang out on a nice cold Thursday night, singing some du-up songs.

Whatever you say to them, they go, ooh-hoo-hoo. But then, like, you walk by to him, think about how dehumanize it. Walk by, hey, give me a little Frankie Lyman. Okay, fellas. Yeah. That's a jukebox of the neighborhood. Show some respect. But then when you see Apollo, a group of guys in suits, a dedicated PR guy that's

giving him advice on how he's going to look like the villain, so polished, like, so methodical that he is literally conning. Rocky into taking this fight. Our entire narrative in the story, which is this second fight, is based upon Apollo's ego. Fascinating character. Also, it's possible it created the whole

how to bully somebody into fighting you, and then the wrestling version of this that they just borrowed for the 80s, 90s, and so on. Which is cool because wrestling comes into the movies. It was in three, I guess. Yeah, it's a very professional wrestling type of, you've got to fight me. What do you? Come on. Let's go.

All right. We're going to take a break. We have a lot going here with the category. So we're going to take a break, come back with most a rushable scene. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Let's talk holiday shopping. Make the most of your money with PayPal. They give you the flexibility to pay in for, no fees, no interest. So whether it's the must-have toy or a tiered cheeseboard, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Subject to approval, learn more at PayPal.com slash pay in for PayPal Inc. NMLS 916.

4-5-7. All right, most rewatchable scene. You know, I get why they re-ran the last six minutes, a Rocky one as a remaster. But for the marathons, it really always bothered me. I used to write about this a lot.

If they're doing a Rocky Marathon, you don't like it. I think it should just go right to them in the ambulance. So here's the thing. As a discrete experience, though, if this movie doesn't have a fight in the beginning, there's no fighting for an hour and a half then.

True. And you would be, it's a tough watch if there's no action. Yeah. For an hour and a half. Rocky and Pago of the hospital. The opening credits are the first rewatchable scene because they have the remastered Rocky theme song. Yeah.

Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, na. You guys aren't with me? Great title. I'm with you. I just think you should be around the warming. Maybe you could be one of the guys. That's what you're auditioning for. Bill,

one man do-up version of the Rock. Bill House. Yeah, House kid next to it. Definitely be next to Franks. From Reeseback? I thought that song was really good. Could have gone badly. I like that you have brain damage.

I don't see any. And then creed in the wheelchair talking shit. Yeah. What do they have to end up at the same hospital and the same waiting room? Well, there's only like a couple of hospitals that you would really go to. Anyway, we had that.

Very small scene. Rocky, taking the wheelchair over to Apollo. asking him if he gave him his best. It's a short one, but I like it. Rocky's Marriage Proposal. How's the Philadelphia Zoo for UCR? A lot of good times there? That's an interesting callback to the first movie.

I don't know if you remember that. Oh, the Gassos driver. Gassos driver says retards like the zoo. You should take it in the zoo. Retards like the zoo. Right. And they get engaged in the zoo. I'm not saying I endorse the language,

but I noted that they brought it. It was a Chekhov Zoo, you know? This was a running joke with my buddy Gus and I all through the 80s that one of us was going to propose. I was wondering if you wouldn't have married me too much. Classic line. I like when he invites the tiger. Rocky's just full brain damage for the first hour of this movie.

She's doing that. Rocky film in a commercial. Brutal. This hurts. I think C.R. could have played the director. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it would have been a good, good,

The true autore that can't deal with the incompetent talent? Yeah. It's like Fincher making him do 60. The guy can't read. I can't read. You feel so bad for Rocky. Get out of here, sir. C.R., would you have bought Beast Aftershaef?

Yeah, for sure. If I was a young Philadelphia kid, just getting into puberty? What was the after shave and... Aqua Velva? No, not that one. The one where they had different athletes to... And you were supposed to act... The audience is going crazy.

They know what I'm talking about. But they would... You were supposed to be upstanding where you wore it. And the guys would come out. Not Old Spice. Was it Old Spice? Yeah. Old Spice and they would have guys in the Old Spice commercials and all that stuff.

That's basically what he was doing, right? Aqua Velva had the athletes with like really, really attractive woman. That was a campaign in the 80s. That was very effective. That's when Joe Montana met his wife. Oh. He married the Aqua Velva lady. Oh, so he was like, I'm taking her home.

Did he say, I was wondering if you would maybe want to get married to me. He took her to Philadelphia Zoo. Mickey doing the finger test with Rock is a great scene on the stairwell. He'd hurt you permanent. Hurts you permanent. Mick is the angriest god

is... Poim minute. Poiming it. And then when he wants to work back in the gym, he's like, where's your dignity? It's just, it's really good. And Rock's, I think Stallone does... I think he has a couple really, really good

acting scenes in this. I think that's one of them. or you just feel like the guy's fucking lost his way and it's not happening. Yeah, I mean, it's tough to be trapped in a movie with someone making bad mistakes because of like brain damage essentially and also just like a lack of kind of imagination

about what they could do with their life. And it's a kind of uncomfortable movie because for the second that they're like, you should invest in condominiums or you should sign with this talent agency or you should do this or you should do that. And watching him, you know, blow through his money and buy a house without going upstairs

and all that stuff. It's just kind of like this is like a pretty brave character to play because you don't get a lot of the hero moments until the last few minutes. And they must have really believed in the climax in the movie because everything is played it's so understated. Yeah. Like there's never any

there's hardly any, should I say, huge dramatic failures from Rocky. Rocky gets fired. Hey, we got to let you go. Yeah. Rocky, hey, can I work the rest of the day? Can I work the rest of the day? Like, all of that stuff is just, they're almost edging you to the big climax at the end.

And sorry for that, but they almost get to get you. Jesus. To get you to the big comics. I like it. Yeah, it's great. Well, the guy who fires them at the meatpacking. Frank McCray.

Frank McCray, that guy. 48 hours. Yeah, of course. Is it a, that's right. I called him that. He's so good. That's my favorite angry sergeant performance in a 70s or 80s police movies.

More than Inspector Todd? Yeah. Yeah, I like him more than Inspector Todd. I like how furious he is at Jack Cates. Yeah. He's really just had it. Jack Cates really screwed up. Apollo pushes Duke for a rematch.

And then Duke does the... He's all wrong for us, baby. I saw you beat that man. like I've never seen you beat anyone. The man kept coming. One of the greatest monologues in the sports movie. We don't need this kind of man in our life.

Yeah. This is what they'll be saying about Drake May in January to Mahomes and Josh Allen. We don't need this kind of man in our life. The man kept coming. Let it go. This is when he's so good in the scene that Stallone must have fouled it away.

It's like... Bring his guy back. When I kill Apollo and Rocky 4, there's going to be a really important log cabin. seeing this guy because I know he can do it. Apollo calls out Rocky on TV all the way to Mickey coming over for the

You mean the Must Burger interview? Yeah, the Musburger. Astonishing. I never asked you to stop being a woman. Don't ask me to stop being a man. And then Mickey shows up, I think we ought to knock his block off. Polly, Van's least favorite character in movie history. Really

funny in the press conference. This really, I came around to your way of thinking this viewing. What was it about this? The most big time fucking scumbag character I've ever seen. I wish he went out like, or like Tommy and good fellas.

Or a mostly realistic guy to have in a movie like this. I don't, I mean, he's not like that. I guess he causes, he is a plague on these people's lives. Yes. Yeah. Like, causes his sister,

stresses are out into having huge premature labor, yeah. Complications. Where do you have him versus Rad Tidwell's brother? Rossinwell's brother was basically fine. He didn't really do anything. He said a couple of things that were off color. But Pauli...

I told you he doesn't like going over the middle. Shut up! And then she attacks. Polly legitimately caused a premature baby. And then lost him all their money. And he's always like, you should knock her teeth out. And then advocates for domestic violence time after time. It's terrible.

And he breaks at the pinball machine. Which one does he get the robot in? That's four. That's four. Yeah. Servo. Yeah. They did.

Stallone, I refuse to watch it, but he recut Rocky 4, and apparently the robot's out. Oh, I love the robot. When did he recut Rocky 4? Oh, it's on Amazon. Who asked for that? It's Stallone.

He's got nothing to do all day. Why, I take the robot out? The robot's cool. The robots always bothered him. He took all the footage he shot and recut a different movie. It's on Amazon. He's got nothing to do all these.

Tulsa King. Oh, yeah, I guess he is. Tulsa King. All right. So, we go through, Do you want to talk about the coma now? Yeah. Go forward.

I mean, it's, isn't this, what, you go ahead. Go ahead. It's 11 minutes of real time. Like, think how long 11 minutes is. I know how long 11 minutes is. It's the same length as Allie Larder's dinner speech in the first episode of Landman season two. I was going to say, that's like a fourth quarter, like 17 play drive. Yes.

Where they're like, they've had the ball 11 minutes. That's how long she's in the coma. Rockies in church. Rocky's reading to her. Rocky's in the hospital. Pauli's there. It just goes on and on and on and on. And on.

But it does lead to. She finally wakes up. And say, yeah, I bought that fight. I just went, you do one thing for me. When? And he, like, lights up. And then Mick, it's one of my favorite sports movie moments of all time. Yeah.

Well, what are we waiting for? And then the music comes in. And then the music comes in. One arm push up against the sun. And we're just like, we are fucking back. Training montage, we catching the chickens, we're doing the whole, now we know what's the one-arm sit-up. Yeah.

Is he the best jump angrily doing the jump rope finishing and then whipping the jump rope down? He is the lead coat of beating up scrap metal. He is. Right. He's the training montage goat. Well, this was, this, I mean, there's a training montage in one. This is like, takes it up nine levels. But then there's a training montage in four or two again.

that's just breath-phing. Before it's 15 minutes of training montages in a row with like no dialogue. This sets the template for what happens in the 80s. So do you guys, let me ask you, fight expert, do you think, how close to the fight is he engaging in this training montage and how long is he training for?

I'm going to say this is like six weeks. Yeah, six weeks out. Yeah. Six weeks out. Yeah. Okay. Because they started, he had probably two or three weeks. of uninspired training.

Well, he's sitting around with Adrian for a long time too. Right. So he's probably six weeks out. I have a question for the group, including Craig. So we had the OK Motherfucker Award for the exact moment when the movie goes up a notch. I had that. Yeah. Which is named after Al Pacino and Heat.

Okay, motherfucker. That we're not watching them. They're watching us. L-A-P-D. Police Department. So we named that. That was a category. as somebody suggested,

We just got made. I was watching it again the other day. Do we change this award to the... Well, what are we waiting for? Because technically, heat's already up nine notches. It's not like heat needed the bump. So it's kind of a misnamed award, even though it was a great moment.

By okay motherfucker, Al Pacino has already done the actual okay motherfucker moment of heat, which is, by the time. I get to Phoenix, he'll be rising. He'll probably leave a note right on the door. Like, that's really when it jumps up a notch. You get killed.

Fuck-de-duggy. Yeah, I feel like we're already up and notch. Give me what you got. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, poor God. So I think, I actually think we should change the award to the, well, what are we waiting for? Because after that, this movie actually is on the same steroids. Yeah, it's in a coma.

It's dead. It's dead. And when she says when you run through a wall. So you agree with that, correct? Yeah, yeah. The movie is literally and figuratively in a coma. Yeah. And then it gets out.

The coma is 11 minutes. The fight in the movie's only eight. The coma's longer than the fight. Yeah, that would have been one of my notes if he did a screening for us. It's also permanent darkness in Philadelphia. Like, he's just wandering around South Philly ghost town at night going to church and shit. It's so like, oh my God. But from this point on, the movie makes use of all your emotions.

All of them. Like, the movie gives you this. emotional euphoria of the run. Well, to be fair, it actually puts you in the headspace of Rocky. Absolutely. Which is like you're basically sitting around for 90 minutes and then for 30 minutes your heart explodes. A couple of things I love in the montage. I love when he's carrying the log

and he kind of loses it. It's like too heavy for him and he drops it and it seems like he's going to stop and then he's like no, I got to keep going and he picks it back up and it's just like a good perseverance part. I personally just want a spin-off movie of the guy. who runs the scrapyard and Mick and Rock are like can we come and hit this with

hammas? And it's just like yeah man knock yourself out. Yeah, go ahead guys. Hey dude, fucking Rocky Balbo is here. Rocky Balbo is beating the shit out of a Pontiac. Can we give a shout out to Mickey's assistant the black guy with like the

Yeah. I don't know, he's got ball but he's got the hair on the sides. George Jefferson. He has no lines at all. But he's fucking awesome for like two minutes. He's doing the medicine. ball thing, he's punching him in the stomach.

Is that guy his name Johnny? Because he's in the gym earlier, right? We never get any scenes with him. There's another guy that I'm going to point out at some of the worst on-screen boxing I've ever seen before in my life. I don't think it's the same guy. But there's another, there's an extra in the background. I'll say this about the training montage.

Well, there's two training montage. So we have that first one that ends with the chickens. And I got speed. And then we have the running scene. The running scene. So I'm going to separate them, that's the next one I have. But like there's Rocky's training,

but then there's Apollo's training. And it's interesting kind of to go back and forth. Yeah. Because what the montage really does is underscore that Rocky is training in his neighborhood. He's training with his people. He's getting back to himself. Whereas Apollo's training is ego-driven

and focused on himself. It's dangerous for people. He's knocking people out without, any concern for who they are. Bring me another one. Meanwhile, Rocky has all of these people helping him who love him and all of this stuff. It's clear they're fighting for different things.

Rocky runs through Philly. Red Jacket Kid. It's an incredible job by him trying to keep up. There's some stuff, I guess we can do it now, about how long he ran. Somebody tried to figure this out. It was 30 miles, right? It was 30.2 miles.

Yes. If it went from... where his South Philly house was all the way to the top of the art museum steps in the same day. 30.2 miles. He finishes... He finishes with a dead sprint

that is not a short sprint from where he starts at, like, the Rodan statue or the Rodan statue going up the art museum steps is got to be like 600 yards. I don't know. I'm not positive,

but like he's running full out and then hits the steps and takes the steps with all the kids. Kids would be, like, falling down on the steps, like, passed out. 12 dead. Yeah, that would have been, that would have been the dark version of this movie. Two kids die on the run. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It gets hit by a car. The big fight, the second round, don't let up on this man. This man's dangerous. Oh, I'm dangerous. I love that everyone in the audience is getting ready for World War III.

And Rocky going, I ain't going down anymore. And then they play the, do-da-da-da-da-da-da. you're like, okay, here we go. We're running the old movie back. So this was in the research. I don't know if this is true, but I watched it, and it might be true.

When they get ready for World War III and they're like pushing each other and have to be held back by the cornerman, apparently Stallone and Weathers were actually mad at each other because some punches landed. And that was actual footage of them yelling at each other and having to be separated. And Stallone liked it.

So he kept it in the movie. Smart. I don't know if that's true because this movie's been out for 47 years. and as you know, I feel like some of the half-ass gets made up as the years pass. Yeah, there's not a lot of lore

about this movie, so that's really interesting. Yeah. Rounds 3 through 14 would be another rewatch, well, and then the 15th round, the double-k-O. What does he switch? He switches in the 15th,

but if you watch the movie, I feel like he's fighting Southpaw half the time in the movie, so who knows. He also gets punched in his right eye, like 400 times. Yeah. Craig, what are your thoughts

in the double-k-o? just as a gimmick in a boxing movie. The only thing that bothered me was Rocky doesn't get hit. I mean, he trips. It's a trip. That's the thing, that's the technical hero. That's a picking net. It would be real to slip.

He would be, yeah, only Apollo actually had to get up. Also, yeah, and it wouldn't be that hard for Rocky to get up after a trip compared to Apollo who was hit. Well, it depends on how exhaustive he is. I guess, but it's not the same. I mean, he did get punched over 2,500 times flush in the face. You couldn't see how to be their eye. So I don't know.

Maybe you couldn't figure out to stand up. Rocky's speech at the end, too. Oh, man. My kid being born. This is the greatest day of my life. Notice of the wedding wasn't in there, so fuck that, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I'm asking you, you guys are married. So, like, if you were to have, like, this, like, tremendous professional, I know the kids have to go in there, right? The kids have to go in there. But, like, do you put, like, a sports enemy or something like that, like, a head of the marriage? What does a marriage fit into? As greatest day of my life?

As greatest day of your life. Would it be if Rocky's talking. Number one, right guys? Yeah. Number one, Van. I'm asking. Keep it real, man. It's like top three with birds beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl.

Yeah. Gotcha. But you're not going to say, because he goes. He says very clearly, oh, this is, besides my kids being born, this is the greatest. But was this kid being born one of the greatest days? Because his wife was going to die. miscarried and almost bled to death. Right.

So in a way that was insulting to her. He gets an error. He gets his son. He didn't even see his son. The day his son was born, he refused to even see his son. And so she woke up. Yeah, I'm sure the doctors at Penn Hospital are just like this fucking guy. I mean, an actual monkey.

That kid had the most hair I've ever seen on a baby. Oh, Jesus. That was an Italian. What the fuck? I'm just keeping it real. That kid had a lot of hair. Whoa. Be careful there.

That's his kid. That's Stallone's kid. That kid had... Actually, Stallone's... Oh, wow, really? Oh, yeah. That was his first son. That kid had the most hair I've ever seen on a baby.

I've never seen a baby with more hair than that, ever. It's not a newborn baby, probably, like, in the movie. Probably like a baby. I think the baby was pretty young, though. But it's not a newborn baby. Baby had a lot of hair. What's your most rewatchable scene, Van? It's...

So, you can't beat the fact that the 15th round of the fight is the most rewatchable scene. But if I was going to... to give a 1B, it's the conversation between rocking and dude. Not rocking and dude, between Apollo and dude. Like, that scene is the scene that I'll wait for whenever I watch this movie. Me, it's coming out of the coma. What are we waiting for in the training scene? Training months from that.

Yeah, that's it. What's the most 1979 thing about this movie? I got one for this. Let's go. 9.5% mortgage rate. I had that, too. buying a house in Philly for 16K with the 9-8-40-trade.

Apparently, the national average was 11, so I wonder if the bank was giving him a break. But this is... 9-5. It's fucking high. I have this as what's actually aged the worst. It's like a young couple being able to afford a house.

Yeah. That's what's pretty something that pre-age the worst. I have my candidate for this is when Rocky is training for the fight, he's sparring with a smaller, quicker fighter. And that fighter is Roberto Duran. Yeah.

A young... A young Roberto Duran, a year before he beat Sugaray Leonard in Montreal, and two years before Sugaray Leonard fucking disgraced him in New Orleans, made him quit, like a fucking loser. Oh, my good guy. So you're not into him. You're not into Duran. Well, Sugaray is my guy.

He didn't shake Sugar's hand after the Montreal fight. He's a fucking asshole. But I will say that this is, Durran has knocked them out. Is that no moss? He no masts him. Duran had spent the entire 70s dominated at 1.35, one of the best fighters in that way ever.

So by that time, he was Ray did, he didn't, fucking quit. And then He didn't fucking quit. And then Hearns knocked them out. You can point at me like you're going to make me quit one day. Duran. I just didn't like him. I didn't like that it was a bad sport. I thought he was one of the most colorful,

interesting boxers that's ever lived. But yeah, in the 80s, it was the golden boy, Sugar Ray Leonard against the hated Roberto Duran. I was so mad when he lost the Duran fight. I saw that in a close. circuit. Just furious.

Boy, if you guys want to be entertained. Furious. Watch the end of that fight after Duran gets the decision over Leonard. Look how crazy Duran is going. He hated him. He's looking and he's going nuts.

Leonard goes to touch gloves after the fight and Duran like, get the hell out of here. He's fucking hated him. Yeah, he's going crazy in the rain. I don't. He's because Sugar A was like. like the American popular guy. Oh, yeah.

Whatever. Duran was like, you know, the hard scrabble, get it out the mud, and he felt like Sugar Ray was actually not a tough fighter, but it was a creation of the boxing press and all that stuff. Yeah, he bullied him into actually fighting him versus boxing him in the first fight. Because he called him a pussy basically for six straight months. Talked by his wife. Talked bad to his wife.

He was so mad. He comes out and he tries to actually fight him for 15 rounds. versus, like, boxing. And then the second one, he was just, he was too quick for him. Duran said he ate like a steak, and that's why he quit. And he fucking quit because Ray kicked his ass. Jesus.

1979. Stuff. 15-round boxing fights, obviously. Yeah, that's a good one. 15-round boxing fights. When at that end, like 80, 86, 87 range? Early to mid-80s, they went to 12 rounds. And then actual hate mail.

Yeah. Like, getting hate mail. I had this in what's age the best. That, like, actual hate mail and reading. hate mail rather than responding to tweets. It's a lot of energy to write out a letter. Dear Apollo.

Kill yourself. Fuck you. Sincerely. Oh, sincerely, Chris Ryan. Dear Roberto. One more, one more 1979 thing.

Fights both on regular TV and in Philly. Nowadays, we only have fights in places where people don't have human rights like Riyadh and Vegas. Vegas. This is a

Riyadh Vegas. Okay. We don't get to give this out all the time, but the Steven Segal

shitting on himself a word for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. This didn't come out until years later and I'm not

positive, I believe it. But Rocky said the switch to switch to fighting right-handed was not in the script. It came about because of an accident on the set

when he was weightlifting with bodybuilder Franco Colombo I remember him, the short guy from pumping iron and he had a almost complete tear of his left pectoral muscle and they had to reattach it and he couldn't fight with his left hand so they did the switch thing.

I'm not positive, I believe this. I watched the movie carefully to see if there was like scenes and stuff where he's fighting right hand. He uses his left arm the entire movie and so Stallone claims this is true but I'm not positive I believe it. If it is true and assuming it is true

just for the sake of the argument, it's two major plot points that were basically like cover-ups for an injury in Stalin's case and Talley Shire making a different movie. She had like a scheduling conflict so that's why they did the coma. I think the pector,

I think it is true because the entire training montage he's only doing one-handed workouts. That's fucking right, Craig? He's doing the one-hand of pull-up also he's not using that hand That's a good point Yeah so who knows

Yeah and what CR said about Adrian was Talia Shire was filming old boyfriends Which was John Belushi's in that movie And could only film near the end So that's why she didn't go to the fight Oh They had to film her scenes later

One of the big materials ever Like months later they shot her stuff Yeah What's age the best You mentioned the zoo thing The zoo call back For Gatsos driver Gaza.

Rocky not wanted to invest in condominiums because you never use them. Characters going on spending sprees. Yeah. The movie's always good. Yeah. It's a real 70s, 80s thing. When you know they're fucking up.

Yeah. It's like, yeah, how about get the new transam? 37K took you a long way, though, back then, man. Get a car. Car, house, a bunch of Rolexes. Yeah. The spectrum being filled with actual extras unlike the first fight?

Yes. Because the first fight, we talked about that. They had to cut all these corners and it's just dark. What else do you have for what stage the best? I just love Tony's monotone hype-up speech to Apollo in the locker room. You're the man, you're number one,

the champ, the best of all time. Girls love you, men, old people love you. And I just imagine, like, this is how Ben Johnson talks to Caleb Williams. Like, you wear nail polish. You make plays off, off-structure, off-platform. You've got a 51% caprician rate.

Oh, damn. And also, at one point, Rocky is told that he's just going to be pumping gas in Jersey. You can't pump your own gas in Jersey. I used to make fun of Charlemagne because I would be on the phone with him and then he would stop. He would be like fill him up. And he would be like fill it up.

Like I did this for a long time. He'd be like fill it up. Like fill it up, whatever. And I'd be like, bro, I mean, you can't get on, pump your own gas? And then he goes, you can't do that in Jersey. You can't. I was like, what? He was like, in Jersey, you can't pump your own gas.

They got to pump it for you. The whole time I was getting my little jokes off, it was like an actual rule. It's true. Connecticut has parts of that, too, where it's mostly somebody's pumping your gas. And when my mom moved here to L.A., she couldn't believe that there weren't gas stations where they had the gas station attendance. It's definitely more of an East Coast thing. I've never been to a full-service gas station that has somebody pump my gas ever in life. If you and Charlemagne did a rewatchable together, would we ever get through the categories?

Probably not. There would be several arguments. I think one of you would leave halfway through. We go back and forth a lot. That's the nature of our friendship, though. It's like, you know. It'd be an interesting experiment. Any other what's age the best before we move on?

Just the Rocky lore and universe. Like when you watch this movie, you see all the ways that Creed. This was the movie that Creed really took more from like the running montage, the kids, the training montages. You literally see the bones of Creed and Rocky 2 maybe more than you see in any other movie. So that's really age the best. And once again, I said, man, Carl Weathers is a phenomenal athlete.

He's a phenomenal. He has fast hands. He moves well. He's got great feet. Great actor, too. He's just like a great actor. Like him in this movie, I could have done with,

I could have been up for a lot more Carl Weathers in this movie. That's my flex. It's the Sasha Jenkins Award for the guy I can't believe is not a bigger star. Carl Weathers is so good. Like, he's so funny. I mean, him going through Happy Gilmore, great comedic timing.

He can just do so many things. Man Delorian? Yeah. Are you an Action Jackson guy? Fuck yeah. It's on the list. No, I've never seen an Action Jackson. Oh, bro, you're going to love it.

First of all. It's on the list for the next year. Can I interest you in peak? Peak woman. Peak. I can't tell you. The great thing about this movie is you can list two people here. I would back both choices.

I'm going Vanity, though. But Sharon Stone too. Sharon Stone as well. Sharon Stone is. But I'm going. Vanity and Sharon Stone is like. Stone at the peak. There's nothing more beautiful.

We've discussed this before in rewatchables. I can't remember what movie, but... I think it was Kyle, probably. But the fact that they didn't make five Action Jackson's is unbelievable. Everybody loved that movie. But in general, Craig, your point is correct.

Like, why wasn't he in a Tarantino movie or something? I'm telling you, there's one thing... It's a really, really crowded space in the 80s in terms of action stars. It's the heyday of that. Action Jackson has all of the... this stuff. It has him jumping full

over cars. Him, it has bad Craig T. Nelson. I think he got a little pigeonholed by the Apollo character because the Rocky series was so famous. It was hard not to see him as Apollo. I think Danny Glover and Marker corrected him a little bit. Because Carl Weathers easily could have been a lethal weapon.

Is it Carl Weathers and Predator I, but I can I tell you why, though? I don't think that Carl Weathers would have been a good choice for lethal weapon. He's too physically intimidating. And lethal weapon, you have to believe, and this is something else that probably held him back. He's with a lot of...

No, he's supposed to be too old for this shit the entire time. Yeah. And he looks physically... For that, you needed every man that looked like Riz could kick his ass. Yeah. Yeah, it wouldn't have looked like that if he was... He almost got pigeonholed because of his physique and athleticism.

Right. Do you know he was like an NFL player for like six, seven years? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. San Diego State, baby. RIP. Rest in peace, man. Very sad.

Yeah. Yeah. Carl Weather's almost a unanimous approval rating, I think, from the general public. One of the all-time underrated actors. Just made every movie better that he was in in the scenes that he was in. Made every movie better. Had to die a lot for these other guys to get their shit off, though. Piss me all.

Yeah, like Predators pretty bad. Predator had to die. Apollo had to die. Happy Gilmore had to die. Stop killing them. Hey, boy, if I had my coofe right now, hey, man, stop killing these black men to exalt your heroes. All right, it's over now. He's even funny and arrested development.

their own gas in Jersey. It's weird he never had like a sitcom. You know how everybody had a sitcom? He was in a rest of development briefly as a character. But like ladies where he's just like, he does a career swerve. All of a sudden he's got like a little family. He's like working in a law office or something.

When Happy Gilmore came along, I was so excited to see him. Yeah. And he was hysterical. He is so good in it. Yeah. Big Cooner burger where best use of food and drink. The meat's back.

Oh, Jesus. Sure. What else would you have? Paulie, snow cone. Oh. Okay. I got snow cone in the fall. I got the spit bucket.

Is that a food or a drink? A drink. Great shot, Gordor, where about cinematic shot, the little kids with Rocky, or would you go something else? I actually had the first fight footage being projected against Mickey as he's talking to him about how they're going to fight. And it's also Mickey early ball knower, early tapehead, you know, going to. going through the footage, trying to find the margins. He's like Orlovsky. He's like Shanahan.

Yeah. Why do you have to protect the eye if you already can't see out of it? Yeah. I think he can see, I think that if he gets hit again, he's going to go blind. He attaches right now or something like that. But he gets hit in that eye like 400 times in the fight. It's not even, they just dropped that. I love how throughout the whole movie, they're talking as if Rocky is a human being.

He's not. He can't. It's like Michael Myers. Can't do anything to kill him. Yeah. His eyesight gets better during the. the four Rockies. Yes.

Let's say keep cutting it. Kid Cutty Pursuit a Happenus to wear Best Needle drop the opening credits the ambulance ride. Yeah, of course. Chess Rockwell. Not going to fly now over the training montage? Oh, that's good. Ah, that's probably...

Yeah, you're probably right. With Frank Stallone on Box, right? That's probably it. Duop band, shout out to them real quick. Yeah, the doo-off guys. Yeah. Chess Rockwell, Brocklanders were our best character name. Still Apollo Creed.

I have a father Carmine, though. And it's pretty good. Yeah. And then I got to throw this in today the Nico Harrison Award for Worst Decision. Late to third in the West. Apollo demanding the rocket rematch, but then fighting him in the spectrum.

Well, he was saying anytime, anywhere. He said, I'm going to beat this man in front of his people in his town. Yeah, fight him in Vegas. You don't need the Philly crowd. Come on, Apollo. You're supposed to be smart. Go to Vegas or Riyadh, one of those.

I think that he's doing it also in Philly so that he can't be accused of there be any fixing, throwing, going on. All right, we'll take a break, come back with CIRS. This episode is brought to you by Apple and AT&T. Scroll long enough and you'll hear it all. Miracle diets, fitness trends, you name it. But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source. Your body. You can track sleep quality, cardio fitness, and more than unpacking.

all the information in the health app on iPhone to get a picture of your overall health. These health insights are developed with clinical experts from start to finish. Find out more at apple.com slash health. Apple Watch is not a medical device and should not be used as a substitute

for professional medical advice. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's, you can get great deals all day with McValue. jumpstart your day with the under $3 menu featuring a sausage McMuffin for just $1.50 or grab the perfect lunch

with the McDouble for just $250. Honestly, nothing pairs with a movie marathon like a McDouble in hand. Get even more value with McValue. Only McDonald's. Bada, ba, blah, limited time only.

Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. Alex. All right, CR, what do you got? Well, I did actually have the OK motherfucker award for Adrian saying win, but I will off the top of my head do a reverse Mallory Rubin. Oh. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

It's more of a question. Do you think that's the one and only time Adrian and Rock have sex is on their marriage night? Now remember... Very chaste. No, we did this in the first movie, right? Oh, did we? Remember in the first movie she became a little muskrat? Oh, that's right.

A little minx? That's right. He was trying to get to him. He brought her out of her shell. I thought she was a late bloomer. That was always my take. Oh, my God. One too many trips to the zoo for her.

Empty house, no furniture. Yeah. Every room, christening in it. Late bloomer. Because she, yeah, but so, yeah. You know who sniff that out? Clubber Lang. Oh, that's right.

You could see that twinkle in her eye. Clubberlain looked at it. She needs a little bit something there. Adrian has like a personality transplant in three and four, right? She's like a different woman. Three, she's, that's her best performance. movie. And then four, she still does the thing

that she does where she shakes her head and talks and looks at the ground and says the line. And I'm like, why don't you just communicate so this guy doesn't go out and get killed? And then five, she's dead? No, five, she's a lot. Five, she's alive. Rocky Balboa, she's dead. It's right of her boy. She's gone.

Van Zaylor-Winterloaks five. The Butch's girlfriend. Rocky Five is good, man. Butch's girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. I went with one-eyed, slightly brain damaged Rocky beating a prepared, motivated, angry creed in the rematch.

It was my pick. If he can't see out of his right eye, which is the jab, he had to bend up by a hundred points heading into round fucking. He was, they said it. He was. And Duke's like you got to,

all you have to do is just not get, yeah, I mean, it's a weak link. Apollo did everything that you could do to win a fight. To beat Michael Myers. Yeah, but what did you have for the week link?

Well, two things. One, coma. And two. Obviously. Gazo being in the movie and not having any impact on the plot shows up like three times asks about the condos, comes to the gym never really if he had not been in this film

it wouldn't have made a difference and he's Spinell so good I just wish there had been some like mafia like we're trying to get you to throw the fight or something going on Oh that would have been better than the coma But it is a cool ass line where he goes hey remember that guy Yeah and then he walks out yeah

But the movie needed I feel like he's in the movie but and like they just either cut his plot or there was like a polyplot that they didn't use there's something where he's in the film but there's no story with him. Maybe one more dimension for the movie. You know what he gets though?

A coveted spot in any big sports movie is the cutaway shot to the guy in the crowd. Go get him rock! Yeah! The hug shot. Vision Quest was the best one for this because there's four different people in the audience that they're just cutting to throughout it.

Did you have a weakling man? No, every, no, no, I mean, Adrian, that's it. What's age the worst? Polly just horrible, as always. We already talked about him. Ali said on Rocky's weightlifting, it's the worst thing a boxer can do. It tightens the muscles.

A fighter never lifts weights, but it looks good in the movie. A fighter never lifts weights? I'm not like, I don't, I'm not on that level. I mean, they lift weights, but I just go in there, hit the bags, and then get in the ring, get my head beat in. Adrian not going to the fight.

So they have the kid, six weeks of training. Are you trying to say that Adrian like... She should have gone to the fight. It's a bad job by her. Go to the fight. Your guy's fighting. You might get killed in the ring.

Your attitudes about this are really funny. Come on. You watch this on a black and white TV in 1970. Go to the fight. It's 50 minutes from your house. I have one really good, what's age is the worst. But what do you guys...

Do you guys have anything for... A young couple buying a house that age is pretty bad right now. Stickball. Kids don't go outside to do anything besides protest right now. It's true. I mean, like the last time I saw a group of kids outside

and there was no cause, it's been a lot. The character of Pauley aged terribly. The scene where Rocky is hitting a heavy, bag and Rocky's hitting a heavy bag right and Adrian comes down and says that she's going to go back to work. Yeah.

Basically she has to go back to work part time at a pet store. Part time at the pet store because Rocky's not making any money then Rocky says hey go get dinner started. So he has 70s were different man. Definitely. Definitely. He has no income. She comes down

I got to go back working part time at the pet store. He says hey. Doesn't he also save but he's sort of like, I want to support you. He doesn't want her to go back. Yeah. But I just don't know of the modern woman where she decides I have to go back

into work to support the family and then you can say. How much is she making at that pet store anyway? I'm not sure, man. Can they make that mortgage? $1,500 for the property taxes? Because that scene in 2025 would be different.

Way different. Nine and a half percent. And the last one, I got to say this. At 5426 in this movie over Mickey's left show, I don't know how you guys can put it. There is some terrible boxing by one of the extras. It was just, I mean, it looks crazy.

And the only thing that's worse than the boxing by this extra is the hairline. And I have to show you this. This is one of the worst hairlines I've ever seen in anything that's ever... Look at this. Look at that guy. Look at this hairline.

Look at that. Whoa, it's like a peninsula. It's got an entire peninsula. But when you see it, when you look at the actual time code, what the fuck is he doing back there? And then I was completely distracted. I have, by what age the worst, my biggest one is that I think Rocky, I think Stallone dials the brain damage up a little too high in this one.

So I had my scale of brain damage for each movie. I actually have what age the worst, too many in this, too many characters in this movie on the Balboa. of things have little to no brain activity. It's just too many people just not being able to like, yeah. Yeah, communicate. So it's not exactly Michael Clayton.

Brain damage from one to ten. Rocky one, I think he's a four. Rocky two, he's like an eight and a half. Uh-huh. Rocky three is back down to a two. Yeah, he's recovered. Rocky four, he's a one. I mean, he's like, he could be running a record company.

I'm interested now. Rocky five, he's a full ten. He's a one thousand. He's like, What happens in Rocky 5? I don't understand why he made Rocky 5. Drago scrambled his age. It's post-Dragal.

Drago is the now. He's a 1,000. And you like this movie. Love it. Cree. I think he's about a 5.5.6. Oh, he's bad. No, he's fine in Crete.

He's running a small business. Yeah. So you have him at like a 4-4 in Creed. But literally in... Creed he's running a restaurant. You know how hard that is? Watch the bear. There's shit.

But literally in five, Tommy will ask him a question about boxing. Like, Rock, what should I do? Should I drop my left hand? Rock would go, oh, yogurt. And then the scene will end. Like, he's like, totally, totally out of here.

Stallone is this owned Rocky Five. Has he? I like it. Vance only person that owns it. Who directed Five? I can't remember. I think Stallone. But Tommy Gunn is in that one.

Oh, John Avleton. Oh, he came back for five. Rocky losing his money. just the whole thing with his son. Oh, 5 is when Polly loses all his money? Paulie loses all his money. His son has to go back in Philly, but evil Kevin Connolly is in that term of Kevin Connolly. Yeah.

And his son has to learn how to bow up. And the whole thing, Don King character, I like it. It's crazy, but I like it. The Don King character is probably the funniest part of that. George Washington Duke. Ventimiglia is in Balboa. Yeah. And then he's in Creed, too.

He comes back in Creed, too. So, John Avilsen. just as a quick aside, does Rocky and then is doing Saturday Night Fever and gets pulled off it, he gets fired. And then by the time we get to

then he does Karate Kid 2 as a comeback. But he does back-to-back Karate Kid 3, Rocky 5. Back-to-back in 89. What a run. What a run. Karate Kid 3, the funniest sports movie of all time

for all the wrong reasons. The bad boy of karate. Barnes. Yeah, that's right. Really such an awful movie. Okay. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinic Partridge overacting word for

the overacting. The commercial director? Burgess. Burgess. Yeah. Wow. What do you mean? Make the case.

Watch the movie. What do you mean? Every fucking scene. Mickey is going like, Rock! Rock! You know, like, it's just, he's completely over the top.

Do we need to add Mickey to your characters? Because we need to refresh the 2026. Mickey from Rocky would be good. commenting on some of these movies. I agree. I think Mickey is, you're killing me today. I think you're,

but that's kind of, isn't that Mickey's whole deal, though? Yeah, but like he's really going for the supporting actor. He commented on it. He said the trainer would never be that, that on it,

yelling at a boxer. Yeah. What do you have for a flex category, Van? Top five, I made up my own, top five unrealistic sports movie outcomes. Okay.

So number five is Teen Wolf. If you guys haven't seen the end of the team, Scott as the wolf has gotten the team to the championship game, the team that features... Are you really telling us the ending at Teen Wolf? Just making sure the audience knows. Okay. Yeah.

All right, Scott decides in the last scene not to wolf up. Yeah. Yeah. And they go out there and they win. Never fucking happening. I don't know if you guys have seen their power forward, but if you be a mile of like 45, they're just not going to go out there and get a victory.

It's not happening. Number 23 puts up like a triple double though. And Team Wolf? Yeah. What's number two? Number four is the karate kid part two. Yeah, he's not beating that guy. He's not going to Japan.

He, okay, him winning the All Valley tournament against Johnny is one thing. He goes to Japan and beats up the head of a karate gang. Sato's Karate Gang henchman, dude. He's not winning that. He's not winning that, them stupid-ass drums. He's not doing that. That's not happening. Daniel, son, this time not for points.

For life. For life. For life. It's not happening, right? I go for it, man. It's a quote. So we should add Pat Marita to the cast of characters. Have we done Kit 2 yet?

I haven't. It's terrible. Yeah. I don't think we've done it. Although I will say that one thing is... Swank is three? Swank is... No, swank is the next four.

Okay. One thing I do like about these two movies have in common is both Karate Kid Part 2 and Rocky begin with the recap of the last movie. Number three, necessary roughness. Texas State takes, beats the number one team in the country, with a 34-year-old quarterback named Paul Blank, who hasn't played football in a long time. True.

Now, at that time, you know, we hadn't seen that, but you can see a 34-year-old quarterback playing in college football all the time now. Number two, the Little Giants beating the Cowboys. I just don't believe in it. Yeah. I think Spike is going crazy. I don't believe in icebox.

I don't believe in anything that the Little Giants had going on. And you look at Spike, he's ready for war. He's going to go out there and leave some corpses out there. That's number two. And Rocky's not. number one. Rocky's number one.

Rocky went in the rebad. You didn't go after Hoosiers a little bit. Nah, because Hoosers... Hoosers is... I can see it happening in the Hoosiers. If Hoosiers would have played the team from across town... Chip would got a hat.

If Hoosiers would have played... If they'd have played like... With Hoosers in Indiana, right? Yeah. If they'd have played like W.E.B. DeWa High School in South Chicago, then they probably would... But they're playing this.

That's, you know... So one-eyed Rocky beating and motivated... It's not happening. They could fight 10 times. It's not happening. And it really hasn't happened because people like to go say that Rocky is like Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano was a dog.

Yeah, he beat everybody. He was a dog. Tough, powerful, all of that. Do we add an honorable mention to your list fan for challengers, which ends into professional tennis players hugging at the net? Yeah. After doing volleying it back and forth from two feet away. Most intense matchup ever.

Can't stand that movie. I would add to your list, which I enjoyed. I like challengers. I like it too until that movie's bad. I'm trying to think there's one. So, bad news, bears breaking training. Okay. They had to cheat with the lineup to win, though, so maybe technically, you know.

But I think victory is the one, the, uh, was last still in the soccer movie. Oh, being the Nazis? Yeah. Beating the Nazi team that's been practicing, and it's like they have this rag tag group of P-O-Ws, Michael Kane is like a pop belly and it's fixed. The reps are in the bag.

There's no way they tie that game. I don't think. Did they lose like five to one? Something like that. The Sierra thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harris for it, how to stake a word. This one leapt off the screen this time

and it basically is following up something Van mentioned in our opening segment. But I think inside of Stallone, there are these two characters. There's his physical form. And he's like, I got to be an action movie star. I got to take juice. I got to be building.

up and I am Rocky, right? I am synonymous for Rocky. And then there's the other person, which is the more sensitive storyteller, filmmaker, creative side. And if he had listened to that side, this movie would have been called Creed and it would have been the godfather two of sports movies. Wow. And he would have made a movie about Creed dealing with the embarrassment and humiliation and shame

of losing to this poluka. It's good. And what's he going to do when he's getting the mail and his wife won't have sex with him and and Duke's like you we got to do this or whatever and it would have been awesome it's in this movie you see the four scenes with Carl Weathers were like why can't we get

10 more of these scenes? It is the better perspective I couldn't agree more and if we had done that and then we have one is Rocky two is creed and three is three and it's just about clubber laying and and it goes or you know you even jump to four basically and like have these guys together

but I thought it was just like it's a great idea that never would happen because everybody just wanted to see Rocky win the title. I know, but I'm saying when we saw a Godfather too, you probably weren't like what I want to see as young Vito Corallone. No, you're right. Yeah. From a movie standpoint, you're

100% right. It's a more interesting movie. I just don't think that's why it's a great hot take. I don't know if they ever would have made it. Mine is that Rocky and Apollo's lives would have been much better if they swap lives. That's true. So Apollo

needed some vanilla serenity. Right. He needed a little muskrat, a little mink's cat to jump on him and calm him down. That's what he needed. Somebody to like be cool and have to go back. And Rocky needed an alpha. A sister. You know how she looks at him? Apollo's up there. He's reading the hate mail. She's like, stop reading it. Right? But Apollo, he can't appreciate that. Rocky was okay, Cynthia.

Like, he would have been all right with it. If they were to swap wives. Apollo's wife wouldn't let him work in the gym. You're going to carry a bucket for these guys? You're a hero. Look at these guys over there. Those guys talking to you, she would have been the one to be like, hey, talk to my man like that.

You're talking to Rocky Balboa, you paluca. So things would have been better for them. I thought that in the movie, I'm like, Rocky needs something. You know what I'm saying? Rocky 3 Wife Squad. That's right there. Probably already happened.

Y'all know how I feel. It's great. And it ties into my hottest take. Okay. I'm so glad you brought up a Paula's wife. Paula's wife. One of the best-looking black woman in the 1970s. Talk about it.

Here's my list. Oh, shit. Wait, wait a second. I knew you would love this worth of anybody. I know, this is it. This is the content you want. Yeah. Let's go.

Best looking black women of the 1970s in. My list. How many, how many, how many sisters are on the list? Seven. Seven sisters. How big was the long list? Like, how big was the pool for you? No, this was the seven.

Okay. I don't think the list, I didn't go in with a number. I went with how I felt as a kid and how I feel now and how I tried to combine those two worlds. Let's hear. Diana Ross Okay, is this she number one? Seven or one? No, no, no, I'm not ranking.

Oh, you're not ranking. That's really sweet. Yeah. Diana Ross. Studio 54, Diana Ross. I like that late 70s, Diana Ross. Beautiful. Ali's third wife, Veronica Porsche.

Gorgeous. Was fucking outrageous. Gorgeous. The best-looking athlete wife of all time. Like, next level, beautiful. So beautiful that she goes to the... Hatter than Brittanymo. He meets her and...

Shut the fuck off. He meets her. Ali meets her and immediately gets divorced as he's trying to fight George Foreman. Yeah, not the best thing, but yeah. He's like... I kind of have her. She's gorgeous, yeah.

Lola Falana. Classic. Always liked when she showed up on the loveboat and I always knew Isaac was getting in in that episode. It's like, oh, this would be good for Isaac. Thelma from Good Times. talked about her many times.

One of the career highlights was Remberg and I getting a picture with her. That's four so far? That's four. Okay. Rem and I got a picture with her. You're making me a little nervous. Go ahead.

That's 14. Why am I getting making your nervous? I'm worried about somebody you're looking out. I'm thinking about it too. Pam Greer. Thank you. Of course, has to be in there. Of course Pam Greer was going to be out there.

I can't trust you. Apollo's wife, Sylvia. I think her name's Sylvia Miles. Just an absolute smoke show. Civil and Meals. And then number one, Jane Kennedy. Jane Kennedy, in the running for best-looking anything of all-time.

But she was... You almost fucked up. No, I'm saying any era. Like, she could move into advance from the 70s into the all-time bracket. The type of lady that your father pays... I want to make sure you know about Jane Kennedy. I want to make sure you're up on her.

Can I interest you in two people? From the 70s. Just two people. We're all winners on this list. We all winners. Yeah. Carol Speed. Which one is that?

Carol Speed, she's in, I think she's in the Mac. Love her. She's in the Mac or she's in Super Bowl. Not familiar with Carol's work. Carol Speed. Marilyn McCoo. Thought about her. She didn't quite get there for me.

Because the 80s came along and like she, Willis would be things. She's solid gold that did a little bit. Solid gold. But in solid gold, that's my era of Marilyn McCool. Then I go back and I look at Marilyn McCool when she was in the fifth dimension. Oh, that's cool.

Marilyn McHugh in the fifth dimension. Like Marilyn McHoo in the 50, gorgeous, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, Jane Kennedy levitated. I had to do the rankings, Veronica, and it's probably the one-beat of Jane Kennedy. Yeah, Jane Kennedy is otherworldly next-level, gorgeous, just all-time beauty. Really important sports. Do you know Jane Kennedy is correct? Mm-hmm.

So NFL, the first ever NFL pregame show on CBS, it's Brent Musburger. Irv Cross and Jane Kennedy. And I think Jane Kennedy followed Phyllis George. I'm not from here. Yeah, Phyllis George. Initially, it's the three of them. Phyllis George marries John White Brown, the Kentucky Fried Chicken guy buys the Celtics.

They replace him with Jane Kennedy, and she's just, everybody's in love with her from the moment she shows up. And I'm not, then she married Leon Isaac Kennedy to start a penitentiary, penitentiary, too. Some things happened. Some things happened. Yeah, we all talk about that.

Casting what if? couldn't really find any except for Chuck Weppner was offered the part of a trainer upon the addition. Like is he supposed to be new Mickey? Because the one fell bad because he was the real-life Rocky. Oh yeah, the movie's based on him.

Yeah. And they want to put him in, okay. But were they going to make him like Mickey's assistant or something? Yeah, I think so. They deleted that character from the script. Best That Guy Award. So Joe Spinell It's Frank McCray, man.

It's Frank McCray, yeah. Is Franklin created that guy, though? I think he's a that guy. Yes. It's 99% of the people listening to this podcast. He is at that guy. Okay, fine. Dion Waiter is a word.

This is... I got one. Musburger. Musburger. Musburger is bright. Musburger blacks out. Wrote his own dialogue. Musburger went nuts.

You're like, this is real. This is happening. He's like, many reporters like this one, standing next to you, Apollo would say, and he's just like, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't know why I'm doing, but you know, it's an incredible scene. It is.

Well, we have Frank Stallone, get some du-up with him. We get Rocky's commercial agent as possible DeAn Waiters. Slinking out as the beast aftershave is to go well. Stu Nahan, got to mention him. And then I think Duke is eligible in this. Fuck, no. He's only in like three scenes. Yeah, but he's in four movies.

Yeah, it's not, no way. For Deion Waiters? he can't, well then if that's the case, he's the Dionne Waiters of All, well, no, because he's Wade. No, I like the Musburger. He's really good in this. If I was going to give it to anybody other than Musburger, but Musburger is just like, it makes this feel like more of a sporting event

that the entire country cares about. Trying to think of who would be now, that would be the equivalent of Musburger being in this. Pat McAfee. Pat McAfee? Craig made a fucking face. You hate him. Oh, my God.

I guess. It would be. It would be. has like McAfee having... You don't think it would be like Joe Buck? I was going to say Buck and Akeman. It's Buck and Akeman. Oh, yeah.

But who's the guy who crosses... Because you're covering like a serious sporting event. Well, if it's fights, who does fight? I mean, it would be... Ariel Hawani or Kellerman or... No, but Brent was like legit on a show that like 20 million people watch before these NFL games. He was...

It would have to be the most famous announcer now. I think it's Buck. Probably. I guess it would be Buck. recasting couch director or city I would recast the commercial director with CR and I would just use AI to make it work and just have CR playing the character. Backup choice Al Pacino.

Yeah. Just two minutes of Pacino. You did your flex category, right? Yeah. My other mini hot take is that Stallone is clearly a better movie runner than Tom Cruise. Oh, undoubtedly. He just is.

Yeah. It looks like he has wheels. It just looks, more athletic. It looks more natural. Cruz is way too robotic and stiff with it. This feels, you can, like, feel how difficult this is with Stallone. He's the best movie runner. Who, do you think, Stolone, who is your best

movie runner ever? I did not come prepared for this. Because we know Seagal is the worst. Seagal. Seagal's one out of ten. I'd like to go back and watch the Crudup and Leto tape of the two Pre-Fontaine movies. Just to see it. I haven't seen that in a while. I don't know. I gotta say Cruz is pretty good in the firm.

It's really stupid. running away from those guys. Some of his mission impossible running scenes are just fantastic, but there's also so much majesty in the way that it's shot and they're shooting them all that stuff. Eddie Murphy, 48 hours, the subway scene? Can't remember pretty well. Rocky's sprint feels more like a sprint.

It feels like he is truly like at 100, out of 100. And the cruise's sprint still feels a little bit reserved. Like he kind of knows what he's doing. When Rocky sprints in this movie, you're like, this guy is running his fast. The only problem is like Rocky 3, you know, Weathers throws that sprint. Yeah, he does.

He eases up on the beach big time. Do you know who is an underrated movie runner? Who? Michael J. Fox. Oh, yeah. Back to the future. Back to the future. Scrappy runner, getting up there.

Marty's always running, trying to get some. Michael J. Fox, underrated runner. I think I was impressed with what little I saw of Austin Butler running and caught stealing. Just keep your eye on him as one for the future. You know, a Don Russ rated rookie. For me, just put them over here just in case. All right, we'll take one more break than we'll do. This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan.

In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. Every Riverside Stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater. This is a place where everything feels cinematic. Like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore, ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids, invites you to find a rhythm all your own. Season after season

in Pure Michigan. Find your season at ExperienceGR.com. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes,

swishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Predict.

prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Do half-ass. All right, half-ass earned it research. Film is dedicated to Jane Oliver. That was Stallone's first agent. She died.

Leroy Neiman's in this. He's drawing a picture of Apollo while he's training. Yeah. The book that Rocky reads to Adrian for multiple excruciating scenes is the deputy sheriff of Comanche County by Edgar Reyes Burroughs published in 1940s You're a big fan

You're a big Burroughs guy I know Yeah Can we talk about the fact That in this movie Rocky basically Like learns to read Like a...

He actually seems pretty adept at reading I mean he's doing Zane Gray or Louis Lamoire books later in the movies I know but is he But it

So could Rocky not read Or was he just brain damage Well it seems to me That like a secondary story In this movie Is Rocky Learning to read. Yeah.

Which should be kind of a big deal. He's not sounding out words. He's reading Edgar Rice Burroughs. It's not like you're like a picture book. So I know, but why did, why do we come back to him reading? I think it's Stallone being like, just so you know, I got some shit to me. Okay. Got you.

I'm going to crank some burrows in this scene. Estimated 800 school children used as extras for the Rocky running scene. Adrian's whole hospital room number was 669, which is considered an angel number. Did you guys know this? I didn't. 6.6.9? Is that what it is? Yeah.

There's a novel published by Ballantyne in 1979 for Rocky 2 and Stallone is credited as the author. And it's a first person narrative. Please reach out. I want to know about this.

The first person narrative told by Rocky? Except it's like written in Rocky's brain pattern so it's apparently like... It sounds awful. It's like settled down, Faulkner. All right?

Flowers for Algernon type shit. Yeah. But when they write about when he writes about, Apollo, it's in the third person and is normally written. And then, uh, Burt Young lost a lot of weight

between the first and second film. Yeah. And in a comment, they put in the movie. So in the, when they're seen right after the fight, when they're in the hospital, they had to like pad him to make him seem fatter. Well, but one of the guys,

somebody says, is, hey, you lost, you lost a lot of weight. Like, they addressed it in the movie. So what's Polly's arc here? He, at the end of this, at the end of one, I don't know if arc's the word we could use. He, after one, after the fight, he's basically like, Rocky, get me your job with Godso.

Then two scenes later is like a maid man and is like lording over the docks, right? Yeah. He's basically, who's the guy in WIRE season two? Ziggy? Frank Sabaka. Frank Sabaka. Yeah, Frank Sabaka. He's basically Sabaka.

And then, but is also like, Rocky, you need to thank me for getting you a job at the meatpacking plant, right? What an asshole. I hate this guy. By the fourth movie, he's just living in the guest room, playing with the robot. And they're getting that cut out. And it's so angry

after he's ruined their lives. I know. It's so angry. What about me? What about, blah, blah, blah. How come no woman for, was, is it possible, Polly was either asexual or gay?

Could be. This might be why he was so mad at. I haven't seen the recut version of Rocky Forest. I don't know. This might be so, hey, you know, it just dawned on me? Gay Polly.

Polly's in love with Rock. Rocky. Oh. This just dawned on me. The reason why he treats Adrian like shit this entire time is because he's in the rep with the Rocky. Pauli this entire time was trying to get some of that Italian sausage. The entire

he's he's he's he's jealous. Or the alcoholism made him incompetent sexually. Either way. Couldn't get one up. They didn't have aager back then. Apex Mountain. Stallone, no. Nah.

Carl Weathers No No But maybe Rocky 3 Rocky 4 range Definitely definitely The spectrum Because we are coming off

The back of Broadstreet Docks there Broad Street bullies Yeah Doc This The original doc The only doc

You also have some good wrestling Back then too WWF Big hotspot Big matches there In the spectrum Yeah that's good Spectrum I like that

Philadelphia Zoo definitely Right That's the most famous thing that's happened. I think so. I mean, there's some tigers and stuff there, but. Talley's Shire, I'm going to say no. Godfather. Somewhere Godfather 2 slash Rocky.

Maybe even three. She's good and three. She's like one of the only redeeming. She's one of the only redeeming quality of three. Bert Young? I can't give him any credit for anything here. I'm sorry. I'm going to go mid-80s for Bert when he's in Miami Vice,

Rocky 4, and back to school with Roddy Dangerfield. Oh, that's like a year. That's a redeeming role for him. Yeah. Like, what's the guy's name in Back to School again? The guy who does Triple Indy. What's the character?

I can't believe I can't draw this. Anyway, but he's his muscle. Did you say Apex Mountain? Thornton Mellon. Thornton. Did you say Apex Mountain for Stolling? No. It's not.

I don't know. It's not. You got to go into the... He forces his way into the directors, too. He's got Rambo 2 and Rocky 4. I think First Blow Part 2 is... He's got like two of the top three movies in 1984. I just think by the letter of the law of what Apex Mountain is,

which is obviously like a very clear and understandable concept, he forces his way into the... 413 movie. ...director's chair for this sequel, gets points on it, makes $200 million with this movie, creates an iconic character and can pretty much... calls him a shot from here. But if he's at the peak of his powers,

it's mid-80s Stallone, right? He can do whatever he wants. Mid-80-Stillan, he could have been like... I think by mid-80s, he's trapped in his own body. And he has to just make action movies. He's like, you know, it's not until copland that he truly gets out of that. You lost the boat two to one. Bert Young.

Brent Musburger, yes. 1979 Brent. You're looking live. I mean, for me, I'm listening to Brent Musburger every Saturday for like, it's like, you know, so I would not be, look at this as Brent Musburger's apex. Does Brent have like a fake, what's the most famous Brent College football? Oh, you know what? Wait, was it, was it not Brent Musburger when, uh...

Iron Bowl? No. No. What's his name's girlfriend? When he called the girl, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. AJ McCarron's girlfriend.

Yeah. How can I not remember her name? Kate, Kathy. This is a huge moment. And that's kind of Apex Brandt Musburger, right? When he was being... How about Cunder the Tiger? That's the Tiger of Rocky talked to.

Apparently a huge attraction in the Philadelphia Zoo. I think Sierra's embarrassed by the Philadelphia Zoo. No, I think it's great. Okay. Coma scenes that go on too long. Have we ever topped this for Rocky 2, 11 minutes? Man. Maybe a million-dollar base.

Baby? Still Magnolias. A million dollar baby is... That's just the last 10 minutes, right? That movie should be shot in the sun. Hate that movie. We made Joe... We made...

Jomey had never seen it. Oh, God. Did he know anything about it? Didn't know anything about it. Yeah, that's, like, actually cruel. That's it. I'm reporting that to HR. Jomey didn't know anything about it.

Jomey had never seen it. You know anything about it. We talked about it. I'm like, hey, Chuck. I was like, Jomey, go home, and watch Million Dollar Baby and they report back to us and he text me that night

all caps what the fuck you just can't see it coming I know totally turns and somehow that movie when they ask her that happens

like what halfway through the movie not halfway like maybe three quarters through yeah what you're talking about when she dies no when she breaks her neck

oh yeah well it's it happened I can't remember it's like the ending it's the last 50 minutes of movie it's like three quarter of the way through

or something like that can't remember boxing movies now 1979 Pontiac Firebird Transams? Yes That was the apex Cruze or Hanks for this movie?

Who would have been a better Rocky? Uh Almost like It's like It's too bad that Cruz never did a boxing movie Because you know that he would have committed It considers it a boxing movie It's true

Very knuckle boxing right there I'm gonna say Hanks No Hank is rocking on It has to be Cruz It has to be Cruz Hanks do this.

Cruise fighting for the welterweight title. Yeah. Scorsese or Spielberg? I think Marty. Yeah. It's Marty, but I would like to see

Spielberg's version, this big, expansive, like morality tale that he would make this into, but it's definitely Scorsese. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffa played?

Probably Mickey. Pauly. Yeah. You would be a good, Polly. Yeah. Or a good commercial director. What do you have for picking Nets here?

We've gone over the ones that I had a lot of these. All right, I have some left. After the first fight, Rocky's definitely getting more than one commercial. I think Sports Illustrated's following him for a giant feature. Gary Smith's just throwing money to Rocky. This has always been an issue with this franchise. He's way more successful and popular after the first fight.

So even when he loses his money, we've talked about this before in five. And then he has to move back to the ghetto in Philly, right? It just doesn't make any sense. He is the greatest heavyweight of his generation. He just beat. But I thought the whole thing with Rocky is that Mick set up

10 easy fights for him so that he wouldn't get hurt again. So, like, is he really the greatest heavyweight or is he just get... He's beaten Clubberlain. He legitimately, he's a legend. Yeah, he's beaten Clubberlian. And also, he has beaten the Soviets on the worldwide stage. He has.

He's beaten. the Soviets on the worldwide stage. He got the Soviets to root for him. Yeah, he's signing autographs. He's doing the whole thing. Rocky's getting put. Rocky is not going to... This fighter exists.

This guy that continues to come back. Mike Tyson, based upon the strength of his personal brand, this fighter exists. He's not going broke. They make it seem like the fights a year after the last fight. So you're going...

Early 77 Philly, right? He's going to Sixers games that year. He's at the final. He's going to hockey. He's going to hot. He's like going around. He's getting invited to stuff. He probably somebody owns like some cheese steak store or something that they, he probably has his name on a pizza place.

Come to Rockies. I don't think the problem was the opportunities. I think the problem was him getting hoodwinked and not being able to deliver. I mean, he could have been in those commercials. He fucked up. I think Paul is running some sort of, he becomes the Maverick Carter for Rocky. He's like getting him. He does his version of Spring Hill.

He's got a content company. Yeah. He's doing pods. things are happening for him. He would have a drive-time radio show, Rocky Bell Bowl, boxing shows. He's not doing one commercial and then working as the bucket guy in the gym. It's not happening. It's not happening.

He's doing cameos and movies and all kinds of stuff. I had this for possibly unanswerable questions, but was the solution here for Rocky just to invest in condominiums? Would that have been like a... That would have been the time to do it. Yeah. Mid-70s. Apollo didn't fight for six months after the Rocky fight? How often do guys box?

I don't really follow the same. He's fighting every two, three months. Well, if you're not, if you're a champ, right? If you're a champion, you're fighting a couple times. Ali fought like six times a year. Not when he was in his, not when he was really. Mohammed Ali. 75 to 78, he fought like 19 times.

Huh. Interesting. Well, like, he's fighting Shavers and fight Norton again. Fight Dwayne Bobbick. Like, he just kind of kept going. But if you know you're a guy and you want to rematch. Didn't Tyson used to fight like twice a year? Yeah, guys fought a lot back then.

On the way up. Like, when, when you get to the point, twice a year is one thing. but when no heavy weight of that ilk is fighting six times. It's also it works because Apollo's obsessed with Rocky. Yeah. Because they're like, we can get you this guy, we can get you that guy. He's like, I want Rocky.

Rocky chasing a chicken, the worst training idea ever in a sports movie. Like, what the fuck? Roger Hones does that. Really? In homage to Rocky or just because it's good for you? I think both. It feels like that's how COVID could have started. Like a boxer chasing a chicken.

That was ground zero. That's good. An alternative to lab leak. What was going on in Philly that hundreds of kids were just hanging out outside? We just love our sports. We're a great sports town. What were they protesting? It was probably like a trash strike or something.

All these nitpick was that they would have stopped the fight once his eyes closed. And then the double knockdown we covered, Rocky falling would have been ruled a slip. And in real life, if both fighters get up, the fight just keeps going. If you both get up before the count of 10, we're going. It's not about beating a guy to getting up. Yeah, it's not a beating guy. Isn't that, just as an aside,

isn't that one of the most dramatic ways, maybe the most dramatic way to end a boxing? Don't they have to get up in time before the last bell? Yeah, but it's not I got up before you, so I won. Right. Like one thing that boxing movies have a problem with a lot of times is how dramatic the ending of the fight is. Some guy gets knocked out how,

How dramatic can you make a knockout? If it goes to the decision, how dramatic is. But this is legitimately probably, like, the most dramatic way. Like, double knockout, who's going to get up first? I have a small nitpick on Apollo's boxing. I've never seen anybody just take body shots like that. Well, don't neither of them defend very well. Right.

Apollo's supposed to be the greatest fighter. Rocky's just, like, going to town. But Rocky's, like, hit me in the fucking eye that might fall out of my head the whole time. He's not defending his face. Put your elbows down. Try to block them. Here's my biggest nitpick, though. So Adrian's in a coma for a while, like three weeks.

You think Rocky would just getting something on the side? No tubes. She's lying in the bed. Oh, yeah. They're just not connected to anything? Right. She's going to the bathroom. Right.

Is there food, water, anything? She's just like, yeah, I'm in a coma. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to go see Adrian? Yeah. Let's go see her. Nothing?

That's just what Comas were like in 1979. Yeah. People were tougher. Sequel prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. They've done all of these. Except for Prestige TV. Except for the literal Creed prequel.

Yeah. Prestage TV might be coming. Did you hear Mike's got a show coming? Set in the world of. Set in the world of Crete. Michael be Jordan? Yeah. I don't know.

I don't think he's going to be in it or if he is, I think he's just going to be. Mike is now the Kevin Feige of the Creed universe. He's got a Creed verse coming. Interesting. Just need to get him an Oscar nomination. I think it's coming.

You think it's happening? Well, I don't know. The year all of a sudden got super duper crowded. I still think that he deserves one. I'm going to be really mad if he doesn't get nominated. I think Autumn will get nominated, the cinematographer. I think Ryan will get nominated. And I'm really, I think it would be awesome if Mike got nominated too.

I think it was a great performance. My dude, Joel Edgerton might get nominated. Train Dreams. Good movie. Did you see Train Dreams? It was fucking awesome. Good movie. Bill, you never ceased to surprise me.

Why wouldn't I have loved Train Dreams? That movie was great. Good movie. Good movie. See Train Dreams? Didn't you not like weapons? Like, I don't even know how to, like... Weapons is fine.

Okay. Train Dreams is awesome. I haven't seen it yet. That's the Sing Sing, guys, right? Yeah. It's a great movie. I had no idea it was going to be... A couple of people told me it was good.

Sean... I thought it was amazing. I'm just surprised that you liked it. Sean put me on the movie. Sean told me about this. That caught Jack doing something like training dreams was good. You know, Sean had already seen it. He saw Train Dreams probably like 2021.

So he had already seen the movie. So he goes, hey, man, like this is like one of those. Went to South and it lived up to the hype. It was great. Is Rocket 2 Better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trao, Mad Dog, Rousseau, Dorso, Dorisberg, Buffalo, Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth. Daniel Plainview, long legs or wolf for Brimley.

Oh, Mike. She doesn't even have tubes in her. She's just sleeping there. It's a Wednesday night in Philly. I feel like we need new names. We've talked about this. Don't, you stopped in the middle of us. Why is it doing college work?

Oh, Colesworth is good. Yeah. You're not doing Wayne Jenkins? For this? Yeah. No. If we, if it's not, I don't even know if we need new ones, but we should just thin out some of these.

We're going to get new ones for 26. give you one that's not on the list? Yeah. 2,025 Al Michaels doing the double knockdown scene. And Rocky's Knockdown Creed, they're both down. Whoever gets up before 10 seconds is going to win this.

Al, come on. You're one of the best announcers ever. I need a little more. I just need a little more. New season. You just need the time to Dizzle? No, I just need more. I know more is in there.

A new season of the boys. now streaming on Amazon. Prime video. I'll get more excited. They've had some good Thursday night games this year. Need a little more from Al. Just one Oscar who gets it. Bill Conti.

What a great call. I mean, I guess he's running back the same score from the first one. Changed key in a couple of places. Or Apollo's wife. Probably in answerable questions. Did Adrian's pets store ever have a customer.

Nobody's ever in there. Just the same four dogs and seven birds. What could she possibly be making? Oh, like, what is it? It's 19. It's like an exotic pet store in South Philadelphia. It's $7.

Any pet store need that much bird feed? Actually, the only person that ever bought, did Rock, do not buy something in there? For his turtle, right? For his turtle or for his, did he buy something for the dog, too? Oh, yeah. For, what's the dog's name again?

Brutus. Buckus. Buckus. It's like, oh, good, Adrian's going to be able to work part-time at our pet store with no customers. It's right across street from the boxing gym. What kind of foot traffic did they get? We mentioned Godzo earlier, the Mafia bookie.

Gatso or Gadozo? I think it's just Gazo. Yeah. What happened to him before Rocky 3? That's a great question. You think he got taken out in the, like, an Italian restaurant? A, you know what? You know what happened between Rocky 3 is what year again?

82. 82. This was the time when the RICO statutes came in. This is the Irishman. This is the whole time. They're fucking over these guys. I think he got blown up at the docks one day. They blew up the chicken man in Philly last night.

Rocky, they said, it's Bruce Springsteen later. Oh, okay. Rocky was a five to one underdog for this fight, they say. Would you have bet that? Five to one seems like pretty pretty tasty. I think Sal and I would have talked to ourselves into that.

You would have parlor? it was something stupid, though. I would have done Rocky for the knockout. Let's do Rocky, but let's get the Hartford Whalers in here, too. Columbus Blue Jackets. That would have been Sal. So I would have taken, like, a high favorite. What piece of memorabilia?

Wait, I just want to ask a one-answerable question. Yeah. Does Rocky love boxing? No. Not at all. He, well, so he's a club fighter. It's something that he is really good at. It feels like he's trapped boxing.

It feels, yeah. He's like this body, this mind, you know, I have a few gifts. this is what I have to do. But I don't feel like he's ever like, man, I can't wait to get back in the ring because I love it. I don't know if Rocky had a lot of opportunities. Yeah, right.

That's the thing. But it's like asking like if Murph loves going on walks. Like I just don't know if there's a lot going on intellectually for Rocky. What would Rocky's dream have been? Like, I really love the theater. I don't know. He seems captivated by the Old West, you know. Rocky didn't want the rematch.

with Apollo at all, and you would think that he is the one that will want it more than anybody. I think he wants an office job. I think Rocky love boxing. What's did he have?

He just fucking walked around with a Super Bowl. Occasionally he would stop by the du-up guys. Maybe they had a good fire going. What do you think? He loved like independent movies. That's really the only thing you're talking about.

I love De Palma's movies lately. They've been really good. Like, what do he have? He wasn't a sports fan. He was a sports fan. He was a kid. He didn't love like the flyers We never did

What were Rocky So he was Couldn't drive Terrible driver Presumably he knows a little bit about sports gambling Because he's collecting for the mob Right That's one of my favorite TV movie things when the guy can't drive

And they park and they hit like the garbage cans Right Right Oh yeah What piece of memorabilia would you want Or not want from this movie I think it's the beast aftershade bottle for me Okay

It's like very stealth But I could put it like right behind CR. Like right there. Right next to the Patriot helmet. Just have the beast after shape. I also like his fake broken nose, I think, for the

commercial that you take on and off. That would be fun to have. And then the trucks. Apollo's Trunks. Either. Yeah. I would like... Trunks, gloves, anything from the car, too. The cars fly. Yeah. The snow cone machine that Rocky says he's going to buy Polly. Oh.

I miss having snow cones. It's really good. What when your coach Finn Stockware for Best Life Lesson. Do you have one? Yeah. Listen to your trainer? Don't listen to your ego.

That's what we got Apollo. What got Apollo, like, legitimately relegated to a co-star in Rocky's universe. Yeah. If he was too anxious, he was chasing it. He could have literally... If he hadn't read it, don't read your mentions. Man. Don't read your hate mail.

Don't read your hate mail. He could have literally let Rocky fade away into obscurity. Yeah, nobody would have... Nobody would remember that. And the whole thing is about Apollo, it's about Rocky now because Apollo chased it. Double feature choice, would you go one or three? I would go three just for variety because I feel like this is so close to one.

I would do three because in the marathon, the 28 minutes from two, when then they would go to Rocky 3 the first like five, 10 minutes of Rocky 3, which is like probably the best stretch in the history of the franchise. Can I make a recommendation from the not Rocky universe for Dixstown? Oh, what a movie. Dixtown. Honey Roy Palmer. James Woods,

Leggson owns that on Blu-ray? I'm sure he does. Dix count 4K UHD. What is the movie? It's a boxing movie, but it's got Cuba Gooding Jr. Oh, glad he there.

I love that. James Marshall. Yeah. And the guy from few good men. The guy from few good men. How? How? How?

Answer their office. This question. How? Ask him a quick. Like, how? How? Like, literally. Man, shout out to our men,

men and women in service. Brian Danny. He gets in the ring with him at the end of the And at the end, he... Gladiator's good. Gladier's good and he's punching and he puts his forehead down like that to make him hurt us. Yeah. Gladiator is my Dix Town double feature.

Okay. Who won the movies Stallone? Yeah. Directed, wrote it. Craig, what do you got? I think the Rocky franchise is really interesting because you get to witness in real time the transition from 70s Hollywood to 80s. Yeah.

And you have like the first two movies are in the 70s and it's like the gritty 70s and the next two are in the 80s and it's like the glossy 80s. the first two movies are two hours. The next two movies are 90 minutes. And I got to be honest, I think I like three and four. I don't love that. That's my opinion, but I'm like, I can't help. I'm not sure I don't disagree.

Craig, it's the right opinion. It's clear. That's why we did three and four first before we did one and two. The end of these movies, all of them are fantastic. My dad and I watched this over Thanksgiving break, and we like basically both fell asleep halfway through the movie. But then by the time you get to the end, we were like shadowboxing our way out of the living room.

So it always delivers at the end, but it's a tough first 90 minutes. It is. YouTube kind of killed this movie. For sure. You can watch the montage. You can watch the fight and you're like, I'm good. I mean, YouTube did a lot of harm in many ways to movies.

I feel like now you can, like I talk to my two brothers-in-law, and every big movie, they're like, oh, I saw the end of that movie on YouTube. And I'm like, fuck. Are you even going to watch it? And like, well, there will be blood. Like, the bowling out, I saw the bowling out. It was like, well, it's like. Seriously?

Oh, yeah, you just watch the 20 best endings in movie history. You throw that up on YouTube. And it kills you. I'm so- I'm such an idiot that makes me watch the movies. I got something that popped up in my algorithm that the whole YouTube video was about the way that Sicario is written.

Like how the actual protagonist of Sicario is Vinicio Del Toro's character. But the whole script makes you think that it's Emily Blunt's character the whole time. Have you seen Sicario? Heard good things. We did two for the money. The other week, that was pitched to me by Bill as

Here's Your Birthday Movie. And so I watched this. I was just like, that's not how this is supposed to work. I watched the whole video, and then the video is maybe like four minutes long about the true hero of Sicario, whatever. Oh, how Sicario fools the audience, I think is the name of the video. And then I went and watched Sicario. Like last night when I should have been watching doing higher learning stuff.

Pod's going to suck today. But I went and I watch Sicario, watch the whole thing back. It's just hard. There's a lot of, like, TikTok, that top 10 performances of the 21st century and you're watching, like, the climax of all these great movies. I've slipped on some of my favorites.

Like, I feel like it's been a while since I watched a few good men in full, but have watched, you can't handle the truth and you cut these guys loose, like, you know, 300 times. Well, I mean, we have stuff like Landman to watch now. That's true. Real art. Thanks to Craig.

Thanks to God. Thanks to Eduardo. Don't do that top seven social. We're going to get weird about it. We'll be back in the rewatchables next week.