The Rewatchables - ‘Rocky III’ With Bill Simmons, Cousin Sal, and Gus Ramsey

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Cousin Sal, and Gus Ramsey have one prediction for this podcast: pain. They revisit the third installment in the Rocky franchise, ‘Rocky III,’ starring Sylvester Stallone, Mr. T, and Talia Shire. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Save at Whole Foods Market. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer podcast Network. We're about to do a movie that I think I've seen the most of any movie we've ever done. I pity the fool who hasn't seen this movie. There is no tomorrow.

Rocky 3 is next. This guy is a wrecking machine. Now, it's time for Rocky to face the challenge of his life. My first time of my life, I'm afraid. It's time for new allies, new enemies, new dreams, new tears, new danger, new courage, new love, new excitement. It's time for Rocky 3, rated PG. Now playing at specially selected theaters. All-Star cast for this one.

Cousin Sal, my longest friend since I've been in L.A., almost 20 years for us. and my buddy Gus Ramsey, my longest friend period. We've been friend for 40 years, which is as long as this movie has come out, Rocky 3 came out, end of May, 1982. Holy crap. I saw it in the theater. I'm sure you both saw it in the theater.

It was incredible. It couldn't have played better. Everybody was super satisfied. And then what happens? It becomes rewatchable. It becomes one of the most rewatchable movies in the history of movies. Let's start here. Gus, is this the best

Rocky movie? It is. And I want to, I think we should spend a little time talking about the theater experience of seeing this film because it was, I've never experienced anything like it. And so for that reason alone, I put it as the best one. I think you get,

you know, it boils down to one, three, and four for most people, I think. But as we will get into this, there's a lot of reasons why you can make the argument that this is the best. I go three four once, Sal. What do you have? This is my favorite, not only my favorite Rocky movie, it's my favorite sports movie. And it was my favorite sports movie when I saw it as an 11-year-old old in the theater. It inspired me to train for about a month. By the way, I'm wearing the shirt.

Clubber Lang. If I can get up from a chair, there you go. World Everywhere champ. Rubber-Lang. I'm wearing the shirt, yeah, as an 11-year-old, and then years later, showing it to my kids at different stages in their lives. It's the greatest sports movie because it moves. It moves. moves, it's 100 minutes long, there are three fight scenes, and they don't get bogged down and crap. You could say, feel the dreams or whatever, but there are some clunky, long-ass scenes in there that you have to get through and your kid, you got to elbow your kid, like, hey, wake up, wake up. And I know it's not all about the kids, but this is my favorite.

I love the way it was set up, and we'll get into why. I mean, terrific. I think Gus and I have talked about sports movies more than anyone else I've known. And my sports movie Pantheon has changed over the years. Like, for a while, it was, for a while, it was. It had to be Hoosiers or the natural, and that was a big argument that as the years pass, things get a little dated. You start noticing Redford seems a little old as Roy Hobbs, all that stuff. Rocky Three is just still perfect. It really is.

As Sal said, it moves. It's 100 minutes, but they cheat because the first three minutes are just the end of Rocky 2. So it's really 97 minutes. And we fly through. And Gus, you mentioned the in-theater part. There are some fucking swerves in this movie. When first of all, Rocky losing was just unbelievable in the theater. It was like there's no world in which Rocky should lose.

And then Mickey dies. And then Apollo comes out of nowhere to train. It was like three of the biggest, oh, my gods. And it all happens in, what, a half hour? I think the Rocky lost is on the heels of the scene where he convinces Mickey to do this. And Mickey gives them like, all right, let's go kick this guy's ass thing. And you're like, great. Rocky's going to go destroy this guy.

Like, Mickey's on his deathbed in the locker room. Rocky's going to go do it for Mickey. And then he gets obliterated. What the hell just happened? Who wrote that script? I thought I would smoke to work. Yeah, it's the rare sports movie ass kicking. Did you cry when Mick died in the theater?

Not only did I cry, but I got pissed at people who laughed. Like when Rocky lets go with the big moan whale thing when he's crying there. People laughed. They did. I wanted to get up and fight anybody who was laughing with Mickey. Kind of heartless jerks. Did you live in your town? My God.

Yeah, well, you know, Bill, I can talk about that. Wait, where can, where do I stand? Because I think I was crying and laughing. Because I was so upset Mickey Dad, but at the same time, it's, it's the most unintentionally funny 30 seconds of Stallone's career. Yeah. There's a lot of those in this movie, too. We have more to do.

I put the subtitles on when I watched it this morning, and it was funny. and it was funny to watch the subtitles. What did he say? The subtitle guy tried to capture Stallone. It just said, parentheses, sobbing, moaning, we got more to do. And then I think they just made up words. But that's the other thing. I wrote this in 2002, the most polished of all the Rocky movies with the best storyline and

some stunning twist. Stallone is the key to everything, from his wailing speaking seizure at Mickey's bedside to his confession to Adrian. on the beach, I'm afraid! To the final fight scene. Sly reached his absolute apex here. And then I wrote this, guys, in the history of American cinema,

no actor has been as alternately cheesy, hysterical, likable, ludicrous, inspiring, laughable, and endearing, sometimes even all at once. Gus, I know you feel that way since I flew to Florida to see Cliffhanger with you once. And I drove to Vernon, Connecticut, or wherever you lived in Connecticut,

to go see... Southington to go see daylight with you. We actually would road trip for Stallone movies, so I know you feel the same. Well, I think Stallone's humor is kind of underrated. He writes funny copy that, you know, you and Gallo always gave me crap about the dad jokes I'd laugh at when I was 17 years old. But there's lines in here that are really funny. And it's you can, now that I've lived long enough and seen enough Stallone, you can envision

sly like putting pen to paper and going, does he swim with a name like rock? Like stuff like that. you know cracks him up, that cracks me up to. By the way, I like that this is not only a rewatchable, it's a rereadable. Now 20 years since you came out with that column. So good job I use, Simmons. I know. I really put some thought because to me Rocky 3 versus Rocky 4, it's tough.

Like Kyle Brandt, who Sal, you and I did Rocky 4 with, he's a Rocky 4 guy. Not a Rocky. Some people are Rocky 3 guys. To me, it's like the Hulk Hogan Mr. T.P. Right. The three of us have the wrestling thing, right? And I know some people could give a crap about that. But I think that was a huge element to it, obviously.

And I was actually thinking about it. I don't know how much you want to get into it now. Let's do it now. Is Vince McMahon a billionaire without Rocky 3? Well, I'll go one step further. Yeah. Trillionaire? Oh.

Over the years, this thing has taken hold that Hulk, and Hulk has done it too, and I don't think it's accurate, where Hulk says, I got fired because I wanted to do Rocky 3, and I did it. and then they brought me back after. If you actually look at the timeline, again, we're doing this. It's the 40th anniversary, May 1982.

Well, it came out. Hulk was a huge star. Thunderlips was the best wrestling character that has ever been on screen. It's just, thunderlips is so good. It's kind of hard to believe. They just didn't make Thunderlips the thing. There is then 18 months before he shows up at MSG

to avenge Iron Sheek with the title. He's in the AWA. The AAWA has Hulk Cove. and they have him feuding with Nick Bachwinkle. Right. And they're so stupid not to give him the title. So yet your answer your question is, yeah, Vince, this probably helps Vince become a cajillionaire.

But also, Vince is fucking lucky because the AWA had all this time to just make Hulk their guy. They sat on it. ESPN at that or being close to being on ESPN at that point and they just, they didn't see it. I don't know how you don't see it, Gus, from just him as thunderlips. How do they not know he's going to be the star? I have no idea. I think part of the fun of seeing the film in the theater for wrestling fans was like, this is validation of professional.

It's in a Rocky movie. They're putting wrestling in here. And then you throw in the fact that we didn't really know who this guy was. And for all we knew he was seven foot tall because they made him look like he was two feet taller than Rocky. And the whole scene was a pretty authentic wrestling scene. And it was comedic and fun. Like you came away from that going right to your point. Like Thunderlips needs to be a guy right now

I see every Saturday night on the wrestling and the fact that it took so long is pretty remarkable. Well, he'd had, what was he, like six to seven months in the WWF, like 1980, he had a little Andre feud. He was just a bad guy. He hit for a tiny bit, but that was only for the hard, hardcore wrestling fans like us.

Yeah, it exploded the way Hulkomania did. People, normal people. I mean, what took the sex tape so long is what I'm at? That's a whole different Well, another piece of this That's not rewatchable style Another piece of this Was the concept of the re-sequel

This was the third version Which was the same thing They had the third Star Wars movie Was this year as well The sequel and then the re-sequel This has gone really badly over the years The third movie You think about like

Bad News Bears go to Japan Which is I think the worst sports movie ever made. I would highly challenge anyone to watch this. I remember my son who loved the first two bad news. No, let's watch it. It can't be that bad. And I was like, all right, fine. You asked for it in like 40 minutes in. He's like kidding.

He said against the wall. Godfather 3, Karate Kid 3, Halloween 3. So it can go that way. You can go with like sometimes it's clear everyone just wants the paycheck back, like the Mission Impossible 3, Shrek 3, Austin Powers 3. And it's fine. It keeps the

franchise going. And then you'll have like the ones that tie up all the loose ends, right? Like the third Lord of the Wings movies apparently like this. Closure. I think Rocky 3 is the best third movie of all the third movies. Because it actually turned out to be the best Rocky movie, a movie that was nominated for an Oscar, you know, and led to 46 years of marathons and rewatches and VHS, DVD, Blu-ray.

But the fact that it's so good, I'm kind of astonished. I feel like this could have gone worse. The reviews were, do you guys know the reviews were mixed at the time? I saw Siskel's report, not great. Cisco did not like it. Yeah, yeah. Was there just a lot of Rocky fatigue already at that time? Yeah, it was combo, it was Rocky fatigue.

Cisco was talking about, which I think was a valid criticism about why does Rocky have to fight another, you know, loud black guy? Why are we doing this again? There's like some inherent racism in this basically, which, you know, I think is. fair. But I think what people didn't realize was just, first of all, it was giving the people what they wanted, including the three of us. And then second, the rewatchability piece, when they had the marathons, and Gus and I, we used to talk about this all the time, they would do the marathons.

They would finish the last movie and then start the next movie, but it would be the ending of the previous movie. And it'd be like, I just saw this AMC. Why I can't get this right? But Rocky 3 was always like, if I could just get to the last 24. 20 minutes of Rocky 2. We're on a run now for the next four hours. Yeah. Rocky 2 to Rocky 3, boom.

That's it. What's funny about that is the last minute of Rocky 2 is the most wrestling scene that you see in Rocky 3. Like that, he beats the count by one. It's like, all right, come on. Yeah, right. Yeah, true. We'll deal with that a little bit. But I think it works because they're all at their best.

And they really like develop too. Like Rocky wasn't his boring. We don't have to watch him, you know, break in. an egg for 16 minutes and stuff. Like it just moved and we'll get into Talia Shire, but she is, oh my God, what a force she was and so, so different from the first two. And Paul, he was funnier than he ever was. And Mick for the limited time he was in there was funny.

And it was just terrific. And I think, believe me, I still think Clubber Lang is a greater villain than Dolph Lundgren. So I know I'm in the minority there. But yeah, everybody stepped it up. So it had to. And when you, when you factor that in with the staying power, of Hogan and Mr. T after the fact and what they went on to become. Like for a while there was probably just, oh, I never did see this,

but I know who these guys are, so let me watch. Rocky 2 is not a terribly rewatchable film, right? There's a lot of bad, a lot of slow. So you could see why people would feel like, all right, we're kind of done with the Rocky thing. And Rocky 3 turns into completely different direction that for me makes it completely rewatchable. Yeah, right.

I never thought about that, but the WrestleMania main event is basically Rocky 4. Like, that might as well have been, right? Like, that's the sequel to Rocky 3. Well, and it sets off within two years, Hogan has become a crossover A-list wrestling slash pop culture personality. Mr. T parlays this into the A-team, which is crazy to think now,

but was the number one show of, I think, like, 19-8-3 or 1984. He was like an A-plus-plus lister. Both of them just because of this movie, it speaks to the power of Rocky. And then I feel like this was one of the first movies that was just on a lot. Right.

Didn't you feel like in the 80s? This was just on. And it was the definition of what this podcast is. It's like, oh, wait, is he about to fight Thunderlips? All right. Yeah. I'll watch. Again, if you're a programming guy and you want to run a movie in the late 80s

and it's got Hulk Hogan and Mr. T in it, you're going to run it. Right. Well, there's another piece to this, Sal. this film is about what happens when you become truly successful. Like people, like, you read the reviews. You read the reviews. I'm just, I don't know if you've thought of this theme because Gus and I have talked about this. Yeah.

You read the reviews, they're like, this is stupid. It's a rehash. I actually don't think it's stupid. I think it's a really smart movie. It's about when you become really successful, you become afraid to fail and you don't want to lose what you have. Like Stallone actually says this in the script and it's like, all right, that's something. Like he has that scene with Mickey and Mickey's like, I don't want you to fight this guy.

He's a wrecking machine. Yeah. And he's hungry. Hell, you ain't been hungry since you won that belt. It's like, yeah, there's something here. And then in the research, it was about how Stallone wanted to make this a movie about celebrity and the loss of privacy. A lot of this doesn't really transpire on that.

But don't you feel like this is the ultimate I'm successful? but it's really hard to stay on top movie. Yeah. But nobody would think that, right? Right, that's true. Yeah, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, but for sure. And, you know, the fact that that scene you're talking about, yeah, see, I love that the fact that it was 100 minutes because nothing, nothing dragged, but I'm going to crap on a couple

of scenes. I thought Rocky convincing Mick to join him. I mean, Mick was so dug in. He'll knock you to tomorrow, Rock. You know, so dug in and then 45 seconds later, like, you don't need this. Oh, come on. I will do this, that. And Apollo convincing Rocky to get back in the game was just as ridiculous.

You know, like, I don't know. It's like, I get that. It moved it along, but those scenes bugged me a little bit because they flew by so, so quickly. And conversely, Andrea needed every single second of that beach scene to convince them. And I thought that was dynamite as a result. But I get what you're saying. One of the notes I wrote down rewatching this is I think the beach scene with Rocky and Adrian is their best scene in all the Rocky movies. Oh, yeah.

Agree. Well, hold on. There's the one part where they're in bed and he's saying he's trying to get her to repeat do-do do-do and she says, do-do, do-do, do-do. And it's only then that you realize she may have more brain damage than me. I was like, she had an injury. Do-do-do-do? What? You didn't just hear that.

What's the matter with you? Gus, do you think the eye. the tiger is the theme that has transcended this movie and applies to all walks of life? Of course. Yeah. I mean, that whole opening montage for me is at the height of rockyism, right? Between the eye of the tiger is the song, I look this up too. Want to guess how many views I of the tiger has on YouTube, the official video, which shows not a stitch of Rocky 3 in it. Oh, I know I'm responsible for 75,000. What is the answer? 792 million

and change Wow just of that song And it's like I said It's not There's no clips from Rocky 3 in it It's just the guy is doing weird things that we did in the 80s We made videos

So that song Combined to your point Bill The montage is all about Look at the fame that Rocky's earned He's on all these magazine covers He's on the Muppet show All that stuff He's quote unquote going soft

And Mr. Tina was coming along And knocking people through the ring ropes And I remember being in the in the audience at the theater, when he's doing the pull-ups and they show the shroud of him doing that from behind, people gasped. People were like, oh, my God.

Could you imagine if they did like a montage of Michael Meyer before Halloween 3 showing him killing all these people? That's basically what that montage did for Mr. T. Like, oh, my God, he's going to kill Rocky. Yeah. But by the way, that saw, I don't know if you saw this. Do you know what was supposed to replay, what the originally we were going to go with?

Yeah, it was supposed to be, we got another one, Vice the Dust. No. Well, they had that too, but I had that in casting what ifs, but let's do it now. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I know I step on. This is important. It's crucial. I thought it was a queen song, right?

You're the best. You're the best, right? The karate kid song. It was Joe Esposito's, you're the best. I would argue this worked out great for all of us. Yes. We get out of the tire. You're the best moves to an iconic part of Karate Kid.

And it's just really hard. It's just the perfect trade. I'm with you. You're the best needed the, um, Because you're the best is interrupted by one point. You know, I don't think you'd be able to do that with I of the Tiger or vice versa with the other movies. And I of the Tiger is the theme that Rocky is selling us here. Like he's not going to win if he doesn't have that I of the Tiger.

That's the other. He says it. Yeah, he brings it up later, which made me think like, did they do the movie? And then he asked Survivor for a song and they watched the song and then they came up with I of the Tiger. Right. Yeah, like went back and put that in. Yeah, I don't feel like he had that song in the back pocket as he's writing the script. So I feel like they probably heard the Eye of the Tiger or Apollo line and were like,

that should be the name of the son. Yeah, it's not as biting if at the before he goes out from his corner. He's like, you're the best. Come on, you're the best, man. It's like, all right. Yeah, we've heard that a thousand times. Like, yeah, the best around. Yeah, best around.

One of their old guy point, we didn't have a lot of sports on back then. Yeah. We had our local teams. There was some ESPN stuff at that point. Basketball was on. USA. Wrestling wasn't national yet. So like when we went to a sports movie and there was like stuff like Rocky 3, it was like, it's kind of important. Now I feel like this would blend into, I mean, Sal, all you do is gamble on sports every day and you're watching 19 things. I say that as a compliment.

Just being like, oh my God, I get to go see a couple of fake fights in Rocky 3. I don't think maybe is the same luster as it did for us in 1980. Yeah, it's true. We had Monday night football. We had Monday night baseball. We had this week in baseball. We didn't have my way. We had the local mats. We had two football games on Sunday. The local game on one channel, local game on the other. Yeah. And that's really it. So we kind of needed the entertainment. True or false. I had the tiger Oscar nomination. True. That is true, right? It lost to up where we belong from officer and a gentleman. Defensible. Now, how mad is Frank Stallone that he didn't get the, he didn't get the song?

for the movie. Well, he got pushing, which we'll get to later and what's it's the worst. Yeah, Frank could have better. I love that Slicestone treats Frank the way Ron Howard treats his brother. There's just going to be a spot for you in here somewhere. I'll figure it out. $17 million budget. It made a crisp $270 million.

It was the fourth highest grossing film of 1982. It's still second only to Rocky Four, I think, all-time grossing. Wow. our guy Roger Ebert did not review it but on the at the movies then when Gene Ciscoll ripped it apart Ebert said he was disappointed that Rocky had lost his humor and charm

a rare bad take from Roger Ebert I thought he had humor and charm and I don't understand the mixed reviews I don't understand how anyone who likes movies could have walked out of this movie and been like eh so anyway all right we have a lot to cover we're going to take a quick break and there's just a lot

of category stuff including a couple new categories. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up these may apply.

Most rewatchable scene. I mean, the whole movie's rewatchable. I try to narrow it down. But the opening, we talked about the Eye the Tiger opening. Gus, is this the greatest sports movie montage ever? Certainly in the top three. Again, because it's not just, hey, we need some time filler here. It set the tone for what was coming, for starters.

The song's great. The back and forth is great. The juxtaposition of who the two. guys are is great. We get all the fight scenes where he's like knocking the guy over the ropes. That's your favorite. So the guy goes flying backwards. Rocky's like laughing off every win and all that.

And at the time, I don't remember thinking like, oh, gee, you must be fighting a bunch of Patsies. But, you know, when Mickey gives him that speech, you're like, oh, yeah, all those guys he fought a bunch of bums. Whatever. Two things I noticed in there that one of the fights that Rocky has is that Radio City Music Hall, which would have made it the first fight ever at Radio City. City musical. The first actual fight wasn't there until 2000, a Roy Jones Jr.

More Rockettes than Rockies back then. Right. Yeah. And then when he's fighting at Caesar Palace against Big Yank Ball, I'm like, who played Big Yank Ball? And I went to IMDB. You know who played him? A guy named Big Yank. I saw that. That's his actual name. I don't know how they came up with Big Yank Ball. I love the I Want the Baboa. Mr. T in the stands for the last couple of fights, just getting more and more pissed off is great. So you have this? Because for me, greatest sports montage is either. Oh, so you say this one. See, I think the later one

when they're on the beach and he like, you know, he's back. I think that would be the training montage that's impossible to beat even though it's not the eye of the tiger. But yeah, you're right. There's the tease in the crowd. He's upset and that's when you see you see Bird Young in the crowd and he's upset, even though you're not sure exactly what about,

but he's sipping from the flask. And he's upset. But We get the Muppet Show in there. We get a little, they dubbed a new Muppet Show because the one was on the Muppet Show. For me, I put it over the top because I was such a Muppet Show fan. Yeah. And that actually happened. He was on, they didn't shoot that for them.

That was an actual scene from when he was a couple of years before. But they had Jim Henson, Jim Henson redubbed Rocky Balboa, which I thought was fun. I put the second training montage in there. And but for pure enjoyment, I still put the Thunderlip scene. I mean, there's. You have their second most rewatchable? Yeah. Yeah, this is more, I'm giving all of them, and then we'll decide.

Thunderlips, the scene's nine minutes long. Yeah. It's in the running for greatest nine minutes of my life. The ultimate male versus the ultimate meatball. How much do you think he eats? About 202 pounds. Mickey's best line of the movie. Yep.

How would you think he eats? About 202 pounds. Weighing 202 pounds. the reigning heavyweight champion of the world. Rocky Balboa. Leroy Neiman with the sea next year. Thank God. Apparently the fight sequence

took 10 days to film and Stallone admitted well later, well later, well, well, well later that he couldn't deadlift Hulk had to jump into his arms. And that's how he was... That's still pretty good.

He's up there for a while. It's just... Everything is... perfect in that scene. Polly's chair shot. Right. When he takes the punch, you're like, I'm too old for this and around the women who are in the ring with him.

Yeah, he's knocked out. And then eight seconds later, he's like sitting next time. He's like, I'm too old for this. But Gus, there's a dozen solid, believable wrestling moves in there. You know, the side suplex, the hip toss, the power slam. I wrote this all back. The back breaker, the leg drop, another suplex, elbow to the neck. And then the full press by Rocky at the end.

I'm not even counting like the audio mixing should get an award for that. Like that was phenomenal. Like, you know, when Thunderlips pounding the ring apron and Rocky landing jabs to the gut and Polly with the chair was really, it had almost everything. No, and then there's the comedy of Polly taking out the switchblade to cut his gloves. No, the gloves. Yeah, yeah. Incredible scene. And gave birth to Hokobedia.

It did. But the value of it, I remember all the late night. show as when Stallone went on, showed that clip. And they always ended right when Rocky looks up as Hogan's about to grab them by the hair and pull them up. That's the scene

they showed on every late night show, which tells you what the producers thought of that scene. True. Next one I have. God, this movie's great. I just wrote this down as Clubber interrupts Rocky's statue

ceremony, which started out so innocently, which just a nice speech. Wow, that statue's great. Get that way you can. Don't get this man a statue. Give him guts. Clever for a minute is just thrown 107 miles an hour. It is just so great. Hey woman. And then it leads to the hey woman.

Hey woman. Hey woman. Listen here. Since your old man ain't got no hard, maybe you'd like to see a real man. I bet you stay up late every night dreaming you had a real man, don't you? I'll tell you what. Bring your pretty little sepho to my apartment tonight. I'm not sure you're a real man. You want to you get out. The hey woman's terrific.

Oh, my God. Gus, I'm going to set you up for the Will Smith joke. Yeah, maybe that's where Will Smith thought, you're supposed to go and defend your woman anytime she's been in. He would have been young enough to be impressionable by that. Rocky's a Philly guy. I think there might have been some club lag in the Chris Rock thing. I would have loved to have heard her response.

I wish Rocky didn't interrupt right there, right? I was like, you know, hey woman, why don't you come back to my apartment. It's like, well, wait a minute. All right, this is, this is all of a sudden appealing. I can go back to your, we just left my opulent living room. I can go back to your apartment. And you don't seem like the most giving lover. You're probably a little bit rough. I don't know, but Rocky steps in there. We don't ever get the answer. Yeah. Bring your pretty little stuff over to my apartment today. I'll show you a real man. I'll just tell you, in the theater, this scene played.

Oh, this is it. We're having a fun. fight. But that goes back to Sal's point about how it moved, right? We get to Thunderlips pretty quick, and that's a great scene, and everybody in the theater is losing their mind. Then you've got this scene, and everybody is losing their mind. Like, there's no place to breathe and go, all right, good, I need five minutes. It just goes. Even the beginning, like, why is Polly so pissed off that Rocky? Right. Bill, I think you said, like, watching the Beatles documentary and how George, like, goodness, embrace working with two geniuses. Right.

What do you be happy about this riding along on Rocky's coattails? Why is he going to be mad? They wanted a job. Yeah. We get the pinball machine in there. We'll talk about that. But I don't think they even take him to L.A. He was such a commodian.

I mean, they would have been able to see that coming, right? Like, he's going to be disaster. I had that in picking nets. We should just do it now. Like, I just, it's a really bad game plan. to, so where are we going to train? We're going to be training this all black part of Los Angeles. I'm going to bring my racist, alcoholic brother-in-law with us.

That'll go great. He does nothing about boxing training. In L.A. was different back then, too. I don't know if you saw that. It seemed to be a lot of people experiencing homelessness. Totally different. Not anything, and Pauley wasn't having it. I have two picking this.

Can I do them now or save them? No, save them. We're a long way away. We have more rewatchable scenes. Mickey tells Rocky the truth. Sal, you thought this scene was too slow. Well, I just think the truth, but the truth was,

and that was kind of dumb too because he's like, wait, these were set-ups? It's like, no, you know, he's just saying they weren't that good. You knew they weren't that good. Well, it has the thing, it leads to Mickey saying, the worst thing happened to you

that could happen to any fighter, you got civilized. Oh, yeah. It's like, yeah, that's actually what happens to most boxers. Yeah. They make a lot of money. and then they stopped training quite as much

and bad things happened. It ends up being the same speech, right? But Mick is trying to, he's presenting it in a fashion and a fashion set, this is why you shouldn't fight because you became civilized. And Apollo's saying,

you lost the eye of the tiger. This is why you should fight. You need to become uncivilized. Yes, exactly. The first fight, which is tough to watch, it's still rewatchable. You have, for whatever reason, Clubber decides to,

they don't separate, I don't have Clubber come out first, so they're out at the same time, which leads to Brawl. Yeah. And we have that. We have clubber talking shit to Apollo, which is great.

And apparently in real life, there was some bitterness with those two guys. No, not the first fight. Wait. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, you got to ask the guest. As the guest announcer.

Right, right. Yeah. We have dead meat. Yeah. We have Rocky just getting the shit kicked out of them. Well, hold on now. Hold on now. he lands the first 15 punches

I counted. Rocky landed the first and headshots too. I mean, there was not a lot of defense in that in these. I had the same note. I went 19 punches because there's sometimes where doubles. You could see them, but going by the rhythm of how he was throwing punches. I threw four more in there. I had 19

and same thing. Almost all head shots. Right. And then Mickey dies. We got more to do. That is, that that eight minutes is moving. I guess my question for you guys Rocky's such a wuss when he goes back to the corner after roundwoods I can't keep him off.

We've built this guy up as a superhero for two movies. He's too strong. He's too strong. It's like really? Would Rocky have done that? I felt like he would have rather died than ever have been that scared of the ring. But who knows? Mickey was dead. I think you're right.

But the other thing is it might not have happened. This might fall into some of the categories because, you know, uh, clubber Lang is accused of manslaughter somewhere along the line, right? He puts Mickey in the state. Yeah, we have, I have that coming up later. I want to dive into that. Rocking Agent on the beach. That's it. That is it.

Why don't you tell me the truth? What are you putting me through, Adrian? You want to know the truth? The truth is, I don't want to lose what I got. In the beginning, I didn't care about what happened to me. I go on a ring, I get busted up. I didn't care. But now there's you, there's a kid.

I don't want to lose what I got. What do we have that can't be replaced? What? A house. We got cars. We've got money. We got everything but the truth. What's that truth, damn it?

I'm afraid, all right? You want to hear me say it? You want to break me down? All right, I'm afraid. For the first time of my life, I'm afraid. I'm afraid, too. There's nothing wrong with being afraid. There is.

For me, there is. Why, you're human, aren't you? Look, I don't know what I am. All I know is I'm a liar, and because that I Mickey ain't here no more. You didn't push him into anything. You mentioned this. Best scene They had together.

Great Wife Stuff by Adrian. It really flared. for her in Rocky Four. Forever. Not a great wife performance in Rocky Ford. Great wife performance here. I don't want to lose what I got. I've yelled this to Gus on the phone

over the years. What do we have that can't be replaced? We've got a house. We've got cars. We've got money. We've got everything except the truth. What's the truth? I'm afraid.

It's always funny. I don't know why. I was a joke. He was carrying Bill Simmons when Bill decides to leave Spotify. It's going to be saying. thing. Why are you going to leave? I'm a friend. Hey, another great moment just right before that. Underrated, and it's only for about 10 seconds. They're in that shitty hotel. And he's looking in the mirror and she's drying her hair. And she's like, oh, this isn't so bad. It's like, oh, what a great

wife. What a great spouse. Right. You take your wife to a nice hotel. And if the water's not boiling warm in four seconds, there's complaints. And she's like, oh, this isn't that bad. Terrific. I could have used another half hour in the hotel because they're staying in this just piece of shit hotel downtown LA. It's like, really? This is where they're staying? It's got to know. He's got to learn. Couldn't stay like, I don't know, at a Marriott. The training sequence, you mentioned it earlier, really fun.

We get Pauley getting pulled in the pool. We get Duke with no shirt at one point for reasons that remain unquared. The shirtless Duke. Training, we get a Polly. Let's be honest. Apollo fixing the race. Yeah. He is not running full speed.

Carl Weathers admitted this to me on a BS report way back when. And then we get the awkward beach hug, which is still one of the funniest things that's ever happened. If you look closely, you could see the seagulls rolling their eyes in the background when Rocky overtakes him, even after the thigh shot and everything else. Like, what are we talking about here? A lot of inexplicable decisions there, Gus, for, I don't know, 90 seconds. There's some close-ups on the crotches that remain. bizarre, there's them wading into the water that's also

weird. I don't know why they did that. What else am I missing? Well, I just think if I watched the Stallone documentary I'm making Rocky 4 and he talked about all the tight shots of his face when he's driving the car and he said that's solely for vanity, I would think that this falls under the same category.

I want people to see how to find my thighs are and all of that. I don't know why he would want people to see him jumping up and down in the ocean hugging Apollo. But Yeah, the whole scene. If there's a person out there who is in charge of rubbing down their thighs with Vaseline or oiling them up, because you know there were.

I mean, they probably shot that a few times. Please, please reach out to us. A body, head of body butter? Yeah, body butter facilitator. Yeah, that was the moment where everybody in the theater got a little quiet. You could laugh at it. It was weird. And then it became hilariously funny.

The final fight scene, 191 pounds versus 237, 46 pound weight difference. But in real life, Stallone said he weighed 155 for the scene. I think both guys were probably like 5-8. Sal, the ain't so bad strategy, I guess is the Ropa Dope. Yeah, that's got to be that. It's got to be that.

What the hell are you doing? I know what I'm doing. Yeah, that was great. Well, it's kind of a combination, Ropadop and Sugar Ray Leonard when he talked to his against the RAND, yeah. Put him the hand on his head on his mowoc and that's going. Two kind of classic boxing moments.

We get the shot of Duke going, No! And then Gus's personal favorite, Adrian, Adrian concerned doing the, Rocky! But everybody was talking in slow motion there for like 30 seconds. They had like three different cuterways.

Even Apollo had like a slow. Yeah, they all had something like, Because clubber has this gutterol noise he lets out between rounds. Like, ah! After they held him back. And then, yeah, Adrian's worst lines are the one-word lines. She has to give. Like when she's counting to 10, like, nine.

And just like, yay, after the win. But otherwise, it's great when she has six minutes of dialogue. Like, oh, my God, there's no one better in the world. Yeah, she's a good actress. Yeah, you could always tell the directors, are great. Three, two, one, just yell Rocky. Yeah. Rocky!

Yeah, that was it. So Stallone was on Johnny Carson's show in 82 and claim that him and Mr. T decided to go all out from the middle to the end of their last round together. Do you guys believe this? No. I don't. I watch it pretty carefully.

I don't feel like that was like a wrestling shoot. No, you couldn't do it. Probably a mix, right? I think there's probably a mix where some punches were landed, but I mean, I don't think you could actually sustain that. I think probably some of the body punches maybe they were like don't hold back on the body punches

so it looks more real but that's it and then last but not least the ending and the freeze frame ding ding how many weeks was this after the second clubber fight do you think? I think Apollo game like two months

six weeks yeah somewhere in there did he still have some like a little black eye or something I'm trying to remember I don't think he did yeah he was pretty well healed yeah all right

what favor This was the favor? But even that led to like a whole, imagine if there was Twitter and internet back then. Like all we would have been talking about is, what's going to happen next? There's going to be a Rocky Ford. They're going to fight.

It was a cliffhanger that ended up not being a cliffhanger. Well, yeah. And also maybe instead of having Drago finish him off, maybe Rocky should have killed him there. That's how Rocky four starts. Like, yeah, you know, in that frozen painting, I killed him. We have no footage of it. It's just a painting, but I knocked them out.

He had his head on the turnbuckle. Do you remember being disappointed in the theater that they didn't show the last fight that it just ended on the freeze frame? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was the first Sopranos moment for me, I think. It's like, wait, what?

And then kind of staying for the credits hoping that they would never circle back. But no, more disappointed than seeing Rocky's kind of grown up son who just didn't see the look apart. Right. All right. What do we have for most rewatchable?

What's your single favorite part? I think I have thunderlips. I still feel like that's my favorite part of the movie. It had everything. It really did. I loved it. It was funny. Polly was funny.

Pretty athleticism was off the charts on both Hulk Hogan's out. Really, gosh, you've seen Hulk Hogan. Did he do a quarter of those moves in his match? Right. I don't know to set it up, you know? Yeah. Just to be different, I'll say the opening montage. And you said it earlier, Bill, it's all rewatching.

Yeah. But the opening to me, to me, because it just sets the tone for everything that's coming. As soon as I'm seeing that, I'm in, let's go. Yeah, that is really great. There's no right answer. What's age the best? We mentioned the movie launch, Mr. Tina Hulcomania. You know what?

I wrote down the, when they, and it's in the first three. I don't think it's in the fourth one. It's usually after round one or round two when it's like, oh, we're going to have a fight. And they play that music where it's like, da-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. What's it called? I think it's called Overture. I could be wrong.

But I think, yeah, that's the, all right, shit's about to get serious music. That Rocky's been getting his ass kick. Now he's about to come back music. Like, that fires me up every time. But again, you've seen enough Rockies. You see that in the theater? I think everybody in the theater is like, all right, now it's on. Let's go.

Yeah, that would be, I feel like they should play that during NBA playoff games when the home team's coming back or something. Just like come out of time out with it. Were we going to say, Sal? I go the other way. I could do without it because now you know the end is coming. It's like, oh, I might get six more minutes. I'm like, oh, the music's kicking into gear.

I'm only going to get, like, a four. Actually, the one thing they threw you off was when Rocky knocks out clubber. It's a, da-da, da-da, da-da, there were four of them. So it's not the double of threes. Yeah, it actually happened on the four, the big lunging right cross to end it. I have the thunderlip says, was age the best. Because to Sal's point, he did stuff that he didn't do in some of his career. and it's such an authentic scene.

Like, to me, it holds up as good as anything in that movie, if not the best. And speaking of Thunderlips, so Hulk uses Eye of the Tiger, basically for his first, like, 12 to 18 months in the WWF, remember when he came out? Right. And then I think it was a right thing or they decided to change it for a real American, whatever happened. But when you go back and you watch some of those early Hulk, and they've dubbed the WWE Library, like, they've dubbed the Eye of the Tiger out.

dub it over with Real American. Is that right? But you could find the old YouTube clips when you just heard the beginning of that song, the crowd fucking lost their mind. Yeah. And were you watching live? Because I was actually watching live when Hulk won the title. Yep.

Yeah. And the first couple notes of that song, and MSG absolutely lost their mind. Like, it was like, oh my God. It's Hogan. Jesus. Well, that's part of also Vince being a smart businessman. Like people identify this guy with this.

song. Yeah. So I'm going to ride those coattails. Was that to maybe, maybe it was a rights thing or were they promoting the wrestling album? That song was on the wrestling album, right? Real American? I think it was a combo. I think they had to, I think they had to get rid of it.

By the way, that's what age the best is I have the tiger. I think. Yeah, I had it. I think about two years ago, something changed with who owns the rights to that song because I think I texted you, Bill, saying it sounds like the song has been sped up when you listen to it now. And I found something that like, yeah, they don't have the rights to it anymore so they can get around it by doing like a slightly sped up version of it. I've clubber lang is Wood's age the best, probably the best sports movie villain we've ever had unless you want to throw Drago at me.

But man, if we start going through all the sports movies that ever made, who's just the actual best, just pure villain, he's got to be on the short list. Whatever your short list is, he's on there. And then the bonus of like three years later Tyson shows up and he's basically clubber laying in real life. Right. Right. He's just we don't know a lot about him. He's not like he's got a lot of flash.

He's wearing just the black shoes and the dark trunks and that's it. He's just let's get the shit out of people. The popper rope with his punches. Yeah. I go laying over, uh, yeah, over, uh, Dolf Long Green. I just, because it's just, you know, I appreciate he had five lines and he made it work. And he was a great. villain, but I'm a Roddy Piper fan. I like

Mike work. It goes a long way for me. Yeah, I'm with you. Apollo as a what stage is the best, really just good in this movie. This is good Carl Weathers. This is as good as it gets for him with the total package. I have the Rocky

pinball machine as a Woods Age the best. These pop up on eBay every once in a while, Sal. I was looking for it. Sal, you're done having kids. This could be a good purchase for you. I can't see. Yeah, no, I was actually look at it. They say they go for about $9,000, but it doesn't seem like there are any. I looked at it out. They only made 1,500 of them. Is that right? Well, now 1499 because one of them got

shattered by that racist dog, Polly. Morewood's aged the best. Hey, Polly, don't get mentally irregular. It still makes me laugh. I don't know how they came up with that. For some reason, we know the identities of all 10 guys, Rocky beat after he beat, between club or and Apollo. And the 10 guys were, I don't know why, but this is in IMDB, and these were all in the credits. Trevor Fouse,

Joe Sack, Big Yank Ball, Vito Soto, Bobby Jolili, Dave Fawson, Flip Folsom, Joe Green, Matt De LaRue, and Philip Hammerman.

Those were the 10 people Rocky Beat. Wow. No idea how they came up with those names. Anything. My neighbor in Southington was Joe Sack,

by the way. Not that Joe Sack. Different job. That one. My name Joe Seck. Can I say this with the other montage they show, right, right, where clubber's beaten the hell out of people? Yeah.

He would have been two and eight with eight disqualifications. He's hitting guys right as they get up before the ref could give him a standing eight. Like, he wouldn't have been able to contend for the title because his record would have been so shitty. There's three-year suspension. Yeah, he'd be suspended or jail. What's your prediction from the fight?

The slow look at the camera pain became one of the iconic Mr. T moments that I think really helped him. I loved Rocky's house in this movie. I like the, I like any, it's like he's so rich. He has to have like a golf cart driving his skin around. Let's talk about sneaky hot Adrian. Yeah. Really, this is the best she's looked, not only in any Rocky movie, but she's really bringing it. She's got the nightgown scene.

There's a little frisky. She really comes out of her shell. It's kind of every time a little bit startling. Gus, you're into Rocky 3, Adrian. Well, there's a lot of mid-80s style in her, right? So I think they did a very good job of reflecting the time, but also your point about they've achieved affluence, everybody's living in high life.

In general, if you're rich, you can make yourself look better. And so if you look at her progress from the first Rocky to Rocky 3, and that's not like this huge leap of time, Everything about her reflects their success as a family. Great job by her. And also a great job by Rocky and the directors of Rocky and Rocky 2 because, you know, sex sells and, you know, that they get more asses in the seat if she looks good and Rocky 1 and Rocky 2. And isn't this mousy pet store employee that, you know, can barely stand up to kiss Rocky

or stand up to her abusive alcoholic brother. So the fact that they kept that for two movies and then unleash that and it worked so well, it's like, oh my God, this is a new character. So Mickey invents that you can't win speech here, Gus. Yeah. I said, why are you doing this? Because you can't win rock. This guy will kill you to death inside of three rounds. You're crazy.

What else is new? He's just another fighter. No, he ain't just another fighter. This guy is a wrecking machine and he's hungry. Hell, you ain't been hungry since you won our belt. I want to talk about. I've had ten title defenses. That was easy.

What do you mean easy? They was hand-picked. Set-ups? Nah, they were setups. There was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy. He'll knock you in a tomorrow, Rock. I feel like we need this speech to walk so that you can't win speech and Rocky Fork and run. Right?

This is the appetite. It makes me wonder, like, are there real athletes out there who support system do those things? I'm like, no, that's a bad idea. You know, don't go to Duke. You should go play at UCLA or whatever. But like hugely important people are in his life or constantly tell them, yeah, you can't do that. Please don't. You're going to die.

Thanks for the pep talk. Yeah, it's not like any athlete today, whereas since 13 years old, you know, everyone's been telling Mark is smart. He's the greatest in the world. This is Rocky. Every six minutes, everyone's shitting on him. It's like, yeah, you fought losers. What are you doing, loser? You're not a loser, too. Yeah, like, Maverick Carter's not telling LeBron

James, you can't win. LeBron, I'm like, you can't win you. You don't work for me anymore. You're out. Stay in Cleveland. Don't go to Miami. That's a bad idea. Bill Baldwin and Stu Nahan, have they aged nicely for you guys? Yeah. Yeah, I think

so. I had them written down. I had the awkward beach hug, which, any more what's age the best from you guys before we move on? No, I just had, uh, uh, I think that's, I have the other stuff in, uh, subsequent categories. All right. Well, I have the awkward beach hug also in what stage the worst. Gus suggested a Markle, or one, no, maybe you did. One of you. Sal suggested the Markell false award for most inexplicable shot for the crash close-ups.

I thought that was good. Here's another what's age the worst. The surprise factor of Mickey dying, Rocky getting knocked out. and Apollo coming out of nowhere to train Rocky in 1982 versus now when we know all that stuff's happening. It's just no longer surprising. So in a weird way,

so it's what stage the worst. Gene Siskel, this is what he said about the racism in this movie. I didn't enjoy seeing Rocky go after another loudmouth black fighter that seemed to be pandering to anyone who has racist feelings in the audience. Fair critique.

Pushing by Frank Stallone. Frank, I just, I don't feel like this is on your greatest hits. Leave it at that. If it was already bad, can it age worse? Right, that's true. I don't think NBS were like, oh man, did you hear pushing?

I got to get that. Well, because it's the, and you compare it to other best supporting songs, like living in America, which is fucking great song, you know? It's like it's an even bigger swing in this. Or any of the training songs of Rocky 4. Oh, yeah. It always bums me out when Apollo is trying to help Rocky, and Rocky says, Mickey never had me do this.

It's like, fuck off, Rocky. He's trying to save your career, you ungrateful dick. It's not negative thinking that other people have instilled it now. The decision to bring racist Polly to L.A., I mean, he starts out by going, I don't like these people. I got a reputation. Probably would be like, hey, you know what, we got to refer with the Marriott. Why don't you just hang out there for a while?

I just think Polly is the thing that at age the worst. Yeah, Polly in general has aged the worst. By the way, do you know what a sternobum is? What is it? A sternobum is, I guess sterno is like alcohol and you like, and like indigent people will filter it through a cheesecloth so that they can get alcohol. And it's just a very specific thing to call somebody. So when he's saying, stop, shut up, you sterno bum, I'll squashes.

It's the real thinker. I have what's age the worst starting Rocky 3 with Rocky 2. I already saw Rocky 2. Let's just start with the fireworks and Eye of the Tiger. What do we need to see Rocky 2 for a good? I've already watched it a hundred times. Yeah. I can't believe we didn't talk about this yet.

It's aged the worst just because it was just so stupefying in 1982 and remained stupefying for years after that we found out Mickey's last name. Yeah. And that it was Mickey Goldmill and then they had a Jewish funeral for him. And Stallone said after he wanted to pay tribute to Jewish trainers from the old days. But just knowing Mickey's life, I felt like Mickey was like Madonna. Gus and I, we, Gus, we've spent a lot of time talking about the Goldmill family and just that choice. Yeah, I don't think if you've been asked us while watching the movie, hey, by the way, do you think Mickey's Jewish?

He is? Like, I don't know. I would have I was like Mickey Fitzgerald or Mickey Sullivan or something like that, right? I'll stop. Not everything has to be Boston Simmons. There was a Jewish trainer. There were a lot of Jewish trainers and like lighter boxers back then.

I just thought he always seemed Irish to me. This is the racism Gene Siskel was talking about from you, from the rewatchables. Yeah, it just did seem kind of at a left field. So, I don't know if you played this one, Sal, but I know Gus and I knew about it. There was a Rocky video game that came out in 1983 off this movie called Rocky Super Action Boxing,

designed by Colico on Colico Vision. You could either play Rocky or clubber, It's a computer or you go head to head. It was terrible. This was a rough time for video games. We did ET on the rewatchables last week, and the ET video game was the most famous bad video game anyone's ever made.

This was a rough stretch, 82, 83. It wasn't really until 84, 85 that things started to take off again. Didn't stop Gus from kicking my ass and the television. Well, around this, didn't we have the Dr. J. Larry Bird one-on-one game on your computer at this point?

Right. And that's... I think we played that more than anything at that time. Yeah, and that was a good one. Was in television the first step up? It was George Plimpton would do the commercials, right? Yeah. And I remember the football was not too embarrassing.

No, the football was good. The basketball was good. The hockey was good. The baseball was good. Yeah. They had four good ones. Yeah. Any other would stage the worst for you guys?

I would, you know, this, you know, I could say people who aren't me seeing the scantily clad women lifting the robes for thunderlips, not aging well. And I hate to say it, but some of the fight scenes because we've seen a thousand fights, either UFC or boxing between now and then, and you're just like, oh, this is what, it can't get out of your head, like, oh, this would have been stopped 150 times by now, right? True. Yeah, Rocky doesn't get out of the first round of the first club. Yeah, it's like we saw our first 10-4 round ever.

They were also still at the point where they had to kind of dim the lights in the arena and whatever. to not let you see that there was only 300 people there. Right, right. As big as Rocky was, they still couldn't put 15,000 people on arena for a Rocky scene. Rocky 4 was the first one where they just did that arena in Vancouver and they just packed it. Best quote, there is no tomorrow you can't win. I pity the full of pain, dead meat. I mean, there's just so many.

I'm not picking. We're going to take a break and then we have some casting what ifs. A Lego set is a gift that always clicks and clicks and clicks. For kids who love to save the day, choose a Lego set. A gift that always clicks. All right, casting what ifs? So, Clubber Lang, they looked at Joe Frazier and they looked at Ernie Shavers. Yeah.

And according to casting director, Rhonda Young, Frazier had a stuttering problem, while Shavers had something of a high-pitched voice, which they thought undermined the character. And then they saw Mr. T. An America's Best Bouncer, which, by the way, why isn't that still a show? Yeah, right.

I think I would watch America's best bouncer tonight, and the rest was history. They considered superstar Billy Graham for Thunderlips. Decided he was too old, right move. Auditioning unsuccessfully for the role of Clubber Lang's trainer, Morgan Freeman. Saw that, yeah. Big, big mistake. Think of what could have been. I know.

If only. It just wouldn't have been an internal voice the rest of his career, been penguins. But he can't talk fast enough to keep up on those scenes. Right, true. Like, Morgan, we've only got three minutes in between rounds. I was trying to think of if it's not an athlete to replace club or lang, what black actor imposing and, you know, good, like John Amos, maybe? He's too old. It's got to be somebody.

He would have, I think he would have been like 37. Yeah, I looked it up. Yeah. Don't you want somebody in like the mid, mid-20s, late 20s? I guess. Well, Joe Frazier wasn't that for sure. Yeah, well, Joe Frazier, that would have. been rough. But that was part of the whole beauty of Mr. T. We didn't know, we had never seen this

guy before. So there was that whole mystery of, oh, my God, who's this guy? I think anybody else you put in there, you have a preconceived notion of, all right, that's Joe Fasier. Right. That's true. And for the Lundelips, what do you think? Like, and so Andre wouldn't have worked because, I don't know, the mic skills weren't there. Ernie Ladd would have been pretty good. Big John Stud and Bundy. Bundy came a little later, but Stud might have been okay. You could have done Paul Orndorf, maybe. Yeah. Because he was rising up in AW. You also don't have him looking at his chest.

I'm looking like six, six, eight. Oh, you're looking at that super tall guys. Yeah. Now, they could have gone killer con maybe. Yeah.

Yeah, something like that. Could have been good. Wait, Gus made me think of something when he was talking about Mr. T. I should have put this on what stage the best.

The whole Mohawk and the earring thing. Yeah. Was like a real thing. Like, I don't even think I had seen a mohawk. We didn't know anything other than a Western back then. And that became the,

this identifiable, you know, big part of like his character. No question. Even the Saturday Night Live, they did the Mr. T's Bloody Mary mix sketch with people at the Mohawks. He really is a genius between the Mohawk and I Pity the Fool, which he came up with in this movie and then used it on A-Team many, many times. And it really, like, if you look it up, it's like a biblical thing. Like he's like, you know, a lot of people in the Bible asking for pity for their foolish

acts. And he just like combined it and like made it his own. I mean, I'd read the Bible, too, if he was, like, putting together phrases all the time. Also, to just come up with my name is Mr. T. Yeah. Just to pull that off. Impressive. This is my wife, Sandy T.

Best That Guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. So, this movie came out 40 years ago. I think anyone who would have been a that guy in this movie became somebody we knew. I feel like this has to go to Duke. Because for years, we knew him as Duke. he's in a couple other things now he's Tony Burton but is there

was there another that guy that you would say it's got to be Duke I feel like this movie's kind of bereft of that there's not a lot of those guys I went with Jim Hill but who was the sportscaster still is out here in L.A.

Out there in L.A. so I gave it to him just because even way back then somebody went we need an authentic sportscaster let's get this guy from L.A. Now Gus is right there's seven characters who do almost everything who has been talking right and like

Mick is gone. within the first half hour and so is Thunderlips and so that leaves five but I had Stu Nahan What's his name? Stu Nehani Ann. Stuneihan, yeah.

Fast Times of Ridgemont High, right? He was in Spicoli's dream. Right, good run for him. Hallam Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island. He was the announcer. Eddie Smith has briefly seen seen his clubbers cornerman. He had 80 credits.

He's kind of, oh yeah, that guy, but you would never know, like Rockford Files, Cojack, Duke's a Hazard, all those things we had. But Stallone's White. was a nice little appearance. Yeah, she played the groupie, right?

She gives the kiss when he's not seriously training. And you would think Mick would have recognized her as Stallone's wife and wouldn't have screamed at her, leave her in tears. But he didn't. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for overacting or actors dialing it up. It's got to go to the beach scene, even though the acting's good. But they really, both sides are really going for it in that scene. So that's easy. Deanne Waiter's Award, tough one.

but I think if we're just going heat checks, Polly's in it too much, clubbers in it too much. So it's probably like Duke by default. I had Wally Taylor get up. That was it. The one line. Like, get up!

His trainer there, Clubbers trainer. Recasting couch. I just, let's put Morgan Freeman and it's Clubbers trainer just for fun, just to see him try to say the lines fast. I do believe those were the worst rounds for Clubbo.

Do that slow, Morgan. would put Kevin Harlan in as a play-by-play guy for the second play. Oh, nice. Yeah, like, couldn't we have, couldn't we got like Marv Albert just to mix it up or who else was available in 1980? They had like nine play-by-play guys. They could have filled one of the spots with somebody.

They go to Warner Wolf for the next one. They probably went, hey, let's get someone a little higher on the cred list. Right. I mean, for sure. Warner Wolf still can't believe the size of that Russian. I would say a young, maybe a young Mel Gibson. as the rabbi? First seat.

Too young? I don't know. Too soon. Half-faceted research, Stallone claimed that his body fat percentage was down to 2.6% and he weighed 155 pounds when they filmed this movie. He said he only ate 10 egg whites and a piece of toast a day. It had fruit every third day.

And he jogged and weighed trained and sparred and weighed trained and swam. I believe like 70% of that. I just don't think you could eat 10 egg whites and a piece of toast every day. Well, what's he talking? This is leading up to the movie and then he, and then what? During the movie. How do you put it in 12-hour days on set with so little, you can't do? I guess that's maybe why he sounded punch drunk for every movie.

The bronze rocky statue has all history. They created three of them. One was at the top of the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art for the filming. And then there was apparently this huge, debate between the art museum and the city's art commission over whether it constituted actual art. They decided it was a movie prop. They moved it out. They moved it to the spectrum in South Philadelphia. And then it was finally returned to where it is now in September 2006. What a bunch of fucking dicks. Isn't the goal of something like that? You want tourists and people

live there to go see something that means something in the city? And you're going to get fucking precious about the Rocky statue? Gus, I was outraged by this. I went to a Sixers Celtics game in December of 82 at the spectrum and the statue was there. The first thing I did was going to take a picture with it. Of course.

You know me like looking up Iraqi with my fists up in the air. There's some country, I forget, it's like, it's not Siberia, but somewhere like that, where they built a rocky statue for tourists to come see. And it's like increased their tourism. Because

people want to see the Rocky statue. Before the Tom Seaver statue, this was the preeminent statue in all the sports. Oh my God, that Tom Seaver statue, she's magnificent. I just can't believe how they nailed that. So Mr. T claimed an interview that he attended the movie with his mother and when he was talking to Adrian that the mother said, I did not raise you, talk to a lady like that and stormed out. Who knows if that's true? Stallone did an interview with Roger Eberon in 79 where he outlined his vision for Rocky

which was a fight in the Coliseum, Pope John Paul the second was going to be there. And then he said, and if I have the nerve, if I have real nerve, Rocky should die at the end of the third film. Since then, he's made seven other Rocky films. I've said, thank you.

It's all the race to that idea for gladiator. Right, right. Rocky's exterior house of the movie was actually Muhammad Ali's house in Chicago. Yeah. And then apparently the Eye of the Tiger used in the film

was never officially released. It was the demo version. They made it better when they actually released it. So if you listen to the two versions. Interesting. They're a little different. Apex Mountain. So Stallone has this and then First Blood a few months later. And I think after First Blood, I think that's his Apex Mountain. I don't think it gets any better for Stallone. He has like two of the seven biggest movies of 1982. And he's an A plus, plus, plus

Lister and it's all set up for him to do Rocky 4. He's the, he can do anything. He can get anything greenlit. He wrote and directed this, Rocky 3. So I don't think it's here, but we're close. I think it's first blood, right? You think it's right when he goes to the actual top of the mountain in Rocky 4 is when he hits an apex mountain.

Maybe that shouldn't have been apex mountain. He's actually climbed a mountain to get, right. To get on an apex band. I've said many times that's where he got the idea for Cliffhanger when he was standing on top of that mountain. Probably. Right. He was like, what would have been if plane crash is a bad guy? I give, well, I think this is Bert Young's apex mountain. I would say that. You could say

earlier Rocky or back to school and maybe he gets more playing time in Rocky 5 because there's a lot of sitting around the apartment. But he was funny and at times scary and almost always pathetic and it worked. And I think this is his apex mountain. you can make a mid-80s case for him because like rocky four is pretty close to back to school yeah i don't know what about tally shire i was thinking the first rocky probably because that's coming right after godfather too and you would have said like she had this huge career ahead of her as it turns out those were like the two big franchises for her but she never she tried to branch out never really made it mr t's not till a team car weathers you could probably say yeah right Right? Yeah.

I mean, he's in this movie the most of any Rocky movie. And, you know, I would say, I would go yes. Hoke Hogan, no. They're going to be the fairy in that Adam Sandler movie. No, this is got to be. Action Jackson. I ain't that. That is a good movie, Sharon Stone.

Hulk Hogan, let me say no. Yeah, no, not yet. Statues. Probably still Statue of Liberty. It's close, though. I had to think about it. Survivor, the band. Let me say yes.

Yeah. Even though they did do some good work on Rocky 4. I don't want to belittle the work on Rocky 4. Some really good stuff back then. Listen, they put Frank Stallone to shame, and that was their mission, and probably got a bonus from Sylvester Stallone from it. Stu Nehan, yes.

Leroy Neiman, yes, because he gets not only is he in a scene, but then gets his painting at the end. and that's all I got, unless you guys have anything else. Well, it's Burgess Meredith. I mean, is he the,

as the penguin, I guess? I think it's Rocky won because he gets nominated. Yeah. He's still the penguin. Like, kids like us are watching Batman reruns

where he's the penguin and at the same time he's in a movie Oscar nominee. Okay. Picking Nits. Just Joe Sack and Big Yank Ball. I still don't get that. Thunderlips,

390 pounds? Yeah, stupid. Like, did Andre the Giant weigh 390 pounds? That seems like a high number. He clearly wasn't 390. Just looking at him. Unless he was like,

and he wasn't, well, how tall did they make him? They made him seven feet tall. They said he was seven feet, but even seven feet, like he's gonna be 390 pounds. Yeah, right. No.

Gus, would Thunderlips get arrested immediately after that match for the six cops he punched? You know, it's all, were they like the WWE cops? I think those might have been real cops. I don't know.

They never really figured that out. Would Rocky really, would he be shocked that they were setting up tomatoes for him? At no point as he's destroying these 10 shitty fighters. He's like, hmm,

this feels suspicious. We never really get to see his opponent. So it's hard to know, like, was big yank bald as some big fat dude? Or was he like legit fighter? Was he like 25 and 0?

Yeah. I don't know. I did some, Big Yank Bell research. Well, he had to know they weren't as tough as Apollo, right? Right. At least that. So where were the doctors when Mickey goes down?

That's a guy. I have that written right there. They were right there. 15 minutes? They're like, there are no medical attention on hand? They were right there. To start the scene,

he's like, we have to get him out of here quickly. And then Rocky sits down with them. And then that's it. They just let him die. They had already done CPR. And then they thought, all right, that's enough.

We don't have to do it a second time. That's one of my two picking nits. The doctor says, time is important. We must get him to a hospital immediately. He goes, just give me a minute. He's gagging out of here. Yeah, but not before I talk to him. Rocky's staying in a horrible L.A. hotel.

We mentioned that. Well, but that was part of it, right? Like, you've got to be civilized. I get it. Uncivilized. Stay at like a mediocre hotel. Yeah. This is a big nitpick.

for me. Were there missed opportunities for a couple big clubber scenes that they could have had after he's the title? Like, couldn't they have had a scene where he goes on the Tonight Show and he insults Ed McMahon? We just, like, Rocky's watching it on TV. He makes a complete jackass out of himself or he's on David Letterman's show or whatever. Like, did Clubber just have to go away until we saw the next fight? I would have spent more time with him. I was so fascinated by him. Well, I have a problem with what happened between the second fight and what should have been the third. I mean, he would have had a rematch, right? There was too much money involved.

They set up between the first slot fight and the second fight took about 11 minutes. Why wouldn't there be a trilogy? I mean, who would turn that down? It's one of the great unanswered questions. At least he would have like a comeback fight against big yank ball. Right. Joe Sack. He didn't want a piece of big yank ball.

No question. I had this in unanswerable questions. But yeah, where did Clubber go, Gus? What happened to him? Well, maybe he did get arrested. Maybe jail. He suggested, you know. But, yeah, I think it sets up for a great 30 for 30.

What happened to what happened to clang after that fight? It's right up there. It's right up there with what happens with Rocky and Apollo square off. There's two great unanswered questions. Right. To this day, we haven't had a payoff. Yeah, because it's a pretty explainable loss, right? He hit the guy with 100 punches in two rounds.

Guy didn't go down. He got a little worn out. Like, you can come back from that. Yeah, sure. It's a small nitpick, but I just feel like Rocky, too, we have that great stare down. I mean, not the clubber two, the second fight. When Rock is like, I'm going to make eye contact with you this time. And I'm going to stare right back at you.

And Clever says, I'm going to bust you up. And Rock is like, go for it. Like, could it, that's the worst line of the movie. What, Sal, what, what's a better line than go for it? Because I can think of like a hundred right now. There were a lot, but I'll say this. It was very effective because Clubber walks back to his corner with a confused look on his face like, hey, no one's supposed to have a comeback to that.

Much less go for it. Go for it. Go for it was like a thing we said around that time. Yeah. Oh, you'd think that was 1988 too appropriate? Yeah. It wasn't quite, it wasn't like Nike kind of turned that into just do it. But I think go for it was like a thing that we would say to people.

Yeah. Or your mother's going to bust me up. I don't know. Like what? That would be it. Last nitpick was the final round is three minutes and 12 seconds. Oh, it is. Oh, interesting.

Clubber actually the bell saves him. Oh, I had it at 258. Oh, really? From the bell ringing to the 10. I had it at 258, which I thought was incredible. Like, oh, my guess. Maybe I screwed up. Is it 10 slow, though?

Was it a slope? I can't remember now. I don't know. Yeah. There you go. Any other nitpicks for you guys? Yeah, the race on the beach, I thought. And we already went over it.

But he has his rich strike moment, like out of nowhere. It doesn't make any sense. Like, everything else is five. The other thing is, there's a small one when Apollo and Duke are watching tape of, of clubber. And he's like, and this is when Rocky is just not playing ball. He can't even walk in the wrist. ring. Like he can't even skip. Yeah.

The way we have him, he's only good for seven or eight rounds. Like, what? He won't even throw a punch. He's terrible. He can't swim. He's just about drowning every time you throw him in the pool. He's going to last seven or eight rounds. All right, good luck with that.

What did you have, Gus? Mine is since I think I saw the movie for the first time, after the Mr. T scene and Mickey leaves early and Rocky wants to go to his house to talk to Mickey, the limo speeds into the driveway and slams on the brakes. I'm like, but like Rocky's not driving. It's like the limo driver's not pissed. There's Rocky yelling at the limo driver, like, hurry up, speed up, all the way into the driveway. Because you'd think that action of the car is being, it's Rocky who's driving the car because he's so angry. Then the limo driver gets out to hold the door for Adrian. So you think Rocky fired the limo driver and the limo driver. I think rock

this. I think Rocky's in the backseat screaming at the guy. Get there. as you can, whatever. It's like super tense because Rocky's yelling out. Could it have been drunk Polly behind the wheel? I mean, maybe that's the only explanation. Polly falls out. Any more nitpicks for you, guess? No, that was it.

Just I covered it earlier, but the, the Rocky being convinced to come back, the fight was just done too easily. He's like, yeah, I get it. You're upset because your trainer died. It's like, yeah, that's the whole thing. That's exactly everything, why you won't come back. Right. You're minimizing it.

Could this be your made as a test? 10 episode Netflix shows, the next category. The answer is no. No. Unless they were all 12-minute episodes. Yeah. Probably in answerable questions. Have you watched 10-episode Netflix shows lately?

I think it could be all right. I mean, I would watch three episodes of Pauley pouring Rocky Jr. Like, beer into his raisin brand. I could do it. Maybe it's a Polly spit up. Unanswerable questions, probably. Did Clubber kill Mickey? Is it at least a trial?

Could we at least get it past the discovery phase? and maybe even like select the jury for it. Yeah. He shoved them into a wall. And then he was never seen again. There's cameras. Yeah. What do you say, Gus?

I think it gets thrown out before it goes to trial. Yeah, I feel that way too. But I think they should have tried. Yeah. Involuntary manslaughter. Right. The problem is they show him in the scene with thunderlips clutching his heart, right?

So if anyone had seen that, it was like, no, he already had problems. His ticker was, uh, it was, uh, it was, right. And he was a hundred and 30 years old. Which, by the way, is different because he tells Rocky in the first movie that he's 76. And then when he dies, three years later timeline, the tombstone says that he was 76. Hmm. Is Polly canceled? I don't know.

It depends. We'll see if somebody writes the right essay about Polly's conduct in this movie. We'll find out. All right, Sal, what were the odds for the first fight? Heading into the fight. Clubber, Rocky. Rocky's won 10 in a row. or 11 in a row at this point.

Clever, unharalded contender, rose to number one, 1982, the public juice is going to be on Rocky's side because everybody loves Rocky. What's the line? That's exactly how I analyzed it. And I think of it as,

well, it sucks because we just lost on him, but Canello, right? Canello has to be, had to be before a couple weeks ago, minus 400 or minus 450 or above, against anyone you hadn't heard of, regardless of how good they were, right? Because of that.

because he's a big he's you know everyone's going to bet him you get you put the rock parlays yeah the rocky tax has to be in there so i settled at minus 550 for that first fight gus that sound good to you it's a bet i would have made i mean just again think about when you were in the theater and the speech that micky gives rocky from his deathbed there's no way rocky loses that fight right all the momentum and to your point like pre-internet we wouldn't know who the clubber lang is. So everybody's money would have been on. Yeah, I was thinking minus 700, so. Really? I think the rocky tax is like double what. And then you have like some of the like Al

Bernstein types being like, you would watch out for this clubber laying. He's destroyed people. He's been disqualified at eight of his last 10 fights for punches after the belt. Watch out for this dude. All right. What do you have for the second fight then? I flip it. I think it's about the same. I think actually minus 500 for clubber. I mean, he dispatched of him in two rounds. and what was Rocky 34 at the time. Because he was still champion and he's Rocky and his heart and everything else,

it can't be 10 to 1, but I think it's about minus 500 for clubber. You think that's too high? What do you think, Gus? Well, I think there would have been a lot of, what Rocky's done? Mickey's dead. Like, what's his motivation to get in the ring anymore?

So I think when you see the movie, it's easy to try to see the revenge card come in. but I think if that was a real thing, most of us would have been like, yeah, Rocky's washed. I think it's lower because of the Rocky tax and the part that could have been in this movie, you know, Rocky and Apollo are going to do

like a little bit of a media tour, right? And Apollo's going to be talking them up, how great he looks, he's lost weight, so you got a little, I think, I'm going to say clubbers like minus 330, something like that. You know, it might have been like, plus 250. Yeah, it might have been like a McGregor-Mayweather thing

where everybody had a casual bed or had to take a chance on the underdog and the other dog in this case being rocky. So by fight time, it might have gone down. Might have been a lot of rocky action. Like, oh, Rocky at the way in. He's down a 191. Jesus.

Yeah. It would have been huge, though, right? Probably like twice the action from the first fight because the first fight, we don't know who Mr. T is. It's just Rocky's going to meet up on another guy. Yeah. Absolutely. Watch this movie for 40 years.

Where is the second fight? They don't really show the exterior, right? They don't tell you where we are. I don't know whether it was in Vegas, but then they decided they didn't want to, I don't know, say what casino is at, so they decided to make it ambiguous,

but are we in Philly? Are we in L.A.? Where are we? I just assumed it was in Qatar. I didn't know. I didn't even think about it. The Saudi Arabians are paying them to have the fight. I have an unanswerable question,

which you guys are going to be like, that's ridiculous. Did Mickey know Rocky lost? there is a brief second obviously they're the oh good i knew i knew you could do it i knew you could do it yeah yeah yeah what round circuit oh that's great the very last moment before he expires he opens his eyes and i think he catches a glimpse a rocky's beaten up face and says oh my god what's happened and then that's that's that's the last thing mckey ever sees that's interesting i got to watch that again go look back he opens his eyes for a split second and it's open

I like this. Do you think the Rocky Apollo friendship was the greatest bromance we've ever had? When you think of bromances, are they on the short list? I'll give you a couple other nominees. Lewis and Clark, Tom and Jerry, Damon and Affleck, Simon and Garfunkel, Lennon and McCarthy? I would have said Pippin and Jordan, but now, I mean, that's fall.

I don't know their names. sorry for this, but the two main guys from the Fast and Furious movies. That's a pretty heavy romance. Yeah. Brian and Dom. You have Felix and Oscar, one of Gus's favorite shows from way back when. That's a great romance. Yeah.

Oh, another one close to Gus, Oberman and Patrick. Not so much of a bromance then. But I would nominate. Who's a Mance? I would nominate Fonsi and Richie. Oh, that's a good one. Starsky and Hutch. Kimmel Corolla

The term of the century Starsky and Hutch Hall of Oats Bird and Magic Right Laverin and Goose Oh bromance Okay I see

Bert and Ernie Yeah There's been a lot of good ones But I don't know I'm gonna say this I think And we learn this in the next movie He was just a selfish guy

It was it was all for him Really this Apollo thing It really was Yeah you're right I'm selfish I hate asking this But I'm gonna ask basket. Was Rocky on PEDs for Rocky 3?

Yeah. I mean, think of, did Rocky go on PEDs after the Creed fight? Second Creed fight is a better one because Rocky was 45 and 21 with 39 knockouts after he beat Apollo in the second fight. And then just rips off 10 straight knockouts? Did he have help, Gus? It's right there in the air. It was right when the steroids thing was starting. Like, was there a little help here? Yeah, this is where we only really knew about it with some of the Russian Olympic teams, right? Other than that.

Well, when the baseball players went on the Nautilus programs, that was the other one, remember? It's like, oh, this guy's doing Nautilus. Oh, Brian Downing is huge all of a sudden. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm going to do egg whites exclusively for the next nine months, and every third day I'll throw in toast. Thanks, guys. And, yeah, I'll get back. We don't know.

There wasn't creatine yet, so we don't know what Rocky was putting in that egg drink. That's true. Right. Maybe he was doing that stuff to Frank Thomas commercial. Your lady will like it too. AJ seems super happy in this one. All right. Toughest question of the podcast.

What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? You could only have one thing. I'll just give you some starters, but you might have come up with your own idea. The original pinball machine. Great. The Leroy Neiman painting. The actual painting. Apollo's Trunks from one and two.

that Rocky Warren 3, the mighty mixed boxing sign from the gym, the limo that screeches to a halt for the house. What would you want, Sal? Well, do you count the statues? Because they are props, right? Oh, that's great. Yeah, statues in play.

Statues in play. All right, I'm going to pass on the statue, even though that would be like the biggest money maker. I would love your, yeah, what would your wife's reaction be? It's like, hey, honey, good news. Well, you remember, like, when they tore shade down, and you'll appreciate this because I would uh they they offered the foul pole to us for $70,000 and I was just going to put it in the backyard I don't know if it violated any uh you

know federal airspace thing but I worried mostly that I would have to split that in half after our divorce and she'd I'd have half of foul pole so I didn't know how to do that but I'll I'll give you one if this exists the Polaroid from the thunderlips Rocky fight oh that's a great one Thank you. Great job. So, really great answer. Yeah.

So you'd rather have that than the Leroy Neiman painting. I think so. There are just so many duplicates now out there. I know the original would be fantastic, but who wouldn't turn that a great holder? That's really good. And if they could sign it, forget it. What do you got, Gus? I want the yellow shorts that Rocky wore on the beach.

You could probably get them. Those shorts were so 80s. Like everything about the 80s was those yellow shorts. yellow shorts. So I would love to put those on when I go for my afternoon walks. I think you could go further with that, just do the game-worn outfits from the beach, from the beach race. Just everything both guys were wearing would be. It was like felt skirts with the crop. You don't want the Yamika from that ceremony? I mean, that was from the Gold Belt funeral. I would do the original Neiman painting if it existed.

Yeah. I think if it was a guarantee. this was the one. This is the one they used. Because the cool thing about that one is you could get you put in your living room. Like even like, Sal, even our wives would I feel like be okay with the meeting painting? It's still like a piece of art, you know?

Isn't it in Germany? I thought I saw it was actually in a museum. What did I read that for something else? I think it is. It does exist. It's out there somewhere. So anyway, I go that. All right.

Really tough question. Last one. Who won the movie? Who do you got, Gus? Who win this movie? I give it to Mr. T. And for me, it comes down to Mr. T or Hogan, but I think Hogan eventually becomes Hogan anyway

because Vince figures that out. But Mr. T used to, he was a bouncer, right? Like this watched his whole life when it came into the stratosphere from this movie. So for me, it's him. I'm going to say Talley Shire. She was a completely different character than we saw in one and two.

Who knew she had? so such versatility in range. She, I was going to say it's like she woke up from a coma, but she actually did wake up from a coma. She was in a coma and too. And all of a sudden, this Alex Smith's comeback story.

And, you know, like I said, she's this mousy pet store employee, you know, really didn't offer much in the first couple of movies. And now she's screaming at him on the beach. I mean, that whole movie was her Olivia Newton,

John at the Rydell High Carnival moment. And I think she was terrific. she wins the movie that's interesting i had hulk hogan as a as a strong nominee i thought i was going to be alone on that one because he's only in the movie for nine minutes but you could say he probably won the most from this movie but i think gus is right probably happens anyway mr t does not happen without this movie and i think mr t wins the movie it's the best sports movie villain we've probably ever had leads to him immediately get in the a team and you know it lives on

I think this is the best Rocky movie partly because him. I think it's interesting though. None of us thinks Stallone won the movie. Yeah. I don't even remember him in the movie, to be honest. No, he was great. I mean, of course, he has to win the movie, but we got to be fun with this, right? I don't know.

I think Mr. T might have won the movie. Right. Like, Stallone was already on his way. Yeah, Stallone was doing great. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But this movie is very difficult to make without him. I stand by it.

about to reach past Rocky you don't think Dom Deloese can step into that role Gus and I are like when the people argue that pitcher wins don't matter anymore and sounds like that pitchers wins still kind of matter

still kind of like looking at him I don't know yeah right but people say that with gambling like hey you know the pitching matchups don't matter is like really well the best pitchers seem to have 18 or 19 wins every year and that's how they're gambling yeah

their team wins 66% of their starts might still matter guys this is amazing I love I really enjoyed this the best part was just watching Rocky 3 again being too lazy to go get the Blu-ray from under the table

and set it up and turn on the Blu-ray player and just renting it for $299 I did the same thing I was like looking for the DVD I know I have it but it's four bucks that's all they get you but yeah I watched it with the closed captions too and that made it extra enjoyable

Yeah, no, I did. I read it on Amazon. I like when you can push the button down and it pops up who's in the scene so you find out like these random actor names. I really enjoy that little thing. All right, Gus Ramsey, thanks for talking to me about Rocky 3,

which we've been only doing for the last 40 years. Sal, great to see you as always. This podcast was produced by our guy, Craig Horrellback, and we'll be back next week with another one.