The Rewatchables - ‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

It ain’t about how hard you watch. It’s about how hard you rewatch and keep moving forward. The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan revisit the 1976 classic ‘Rocky’ starring Syllvester Stallone, Talia Shire, and Carl Weathers. Watch this episode on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel! Producer: Craig Horlbeck Video Producers: Jack Sanders, Chia Hao Tat, Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, Rewatchables fans? As you know, we've done live shows in New York, in Philly, D.C., in Chicago, L.A., many times. We've never done Boston. I've been saving it for the right moment. The right moment is here. It's going to be Thursday, March 27th. It's going to be the House of Blues, which is right by Fenway Park, and it's going to be the dream team.

Me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessee, and Ryan Ricillo. That's right. We're all coming back. We're not doing the town. We're not touching the town. That one episode lives on forever on YouTube, Spotify. redoing it, but we'll probably do a Boston movie. All information will be on the ringer.com slash events very soon.

Once again, the rewatchables live, Boston, Thursday, March 27th, House of Blues, ringer.com slash events. And we're going to have a couple more things we're doing that weekend too. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Build for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines?

Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. This episode is brought to you by Apple and AT&T. Scroll long enough and you'll hear it all. Miracle diets, fitness trends, you name it. But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source, your body.

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as a substitute for professional medical advice. I'm very excited. We have not come to Boston yet and we're going to do it right. Hope to see you there. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer podcast network.

We are now available on video on Spotify. We have a YouTube channel as well that you can find on Ringer movies. Van Lathan is here. You can find them in Hiringer. learning, you could find him on Midnight Boys, Beep, Peep, Pew, Poo! Come on, you know that. He's just fucking with me, man. He did this last time, too. It's Poo-Pew.

Pee-Pee! Chris Ryan. What are you up to? He's like the Roadrunner and the Coyote now? I make the watch. Oh, great. Yeah. A lot of good TV lately. There's some great television on, yeah. That's great. Well, I'm Bill, and we're about to do Rocky,

one of the most important movies the last 50 years. Let's go. His name is Sylvester Stallone. He's the star of a new film called Rocky. He has been described as handsome, tough, talented, sexy, sensitive, dynamic, and brilliant. He's been compared to Brando, Newman, Pacino, and De Niro. He's been called a top contender for an Academy Award. Sylvester Stallone in Rocky, rated PG. All right, let me start here.

Rocky is now a prequel for Rocky 3. Prove me wrong. No, you're right. That's so funny. Like our role, we, it's coming up in the category, like prequel. I'm like, this movie is a prequel. It is the prequel. Yeah.

And it's one of the most important, I think movies of the last 50 years, I'm going to make a case. And it's prototype for sports movies. And yet now all these years later, I'm like, oh, I like how they're setting this up for the pinball machine in Rocky 3. I was trying to think of an example of what happens in Rocky 1. And it's basically imagine if Godfather was entirely about Kate and Michael, not in New York City. Kay and Michael just hanging out, going on dates, going to the movies, you know, like reading books to each other,

checking out the Sunday Times. Going to a skating rink. And at the very end, like, Don Corleone dies, you know? And he's like, I have to take over the family. So it's like, it's crazy. Boxing does not happen to the last 13 minutes of this movie. Shockingly absent from the film,

the lore of the Rocky movies, after you watch all of them and then you come back to this one, what a quaint, emotionally devastating film. A small character study. Character study of a guy that's trying to

take this opportunity for the rest of his life, something that's super duper relatable. Yeah, it's funny because from a rewatchable standpoint in this movie's in the running for probably most rewatched movies on cable and just diving in halfway through it. But you never watch the first half hour of it when it's just establishing over and over again

what a loser he is. Usually not in the rewatch thing, you'll come in and be like oh shit, he's taking the Apollo fight. I'm going to start watching. And there's just some gut-wrenching scenes in that first 30 minutes, which is why it ended up winning Best Picture. But is that also why you've been a little bit reticent

to do it on the pod? I just wanted to do Rocky 3 first because I think it's one of the great movies of all time. When I say it's one of the most influential movies in the past 15 years, the case would be this. Created the sports movie prototype, like just period. created the underdog, the modern version of that underdog.

There's millions of movies from 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s that did this. But this nailed it to the point that you would just compare. It could be sports, it could be non-sports, if there was like that kind of Rocky type of character. Like, oh, this is like Rocky. And then just the beats of like something leading

to the big game, big event, whatever, which I guess you could say longest yard started it, but once Rocky did this. wondering if this is the first time you remember seeing in a movie sports narratives and storylines getting manipulated from behind the scenes in a kind of dark arts way to create a sensation right because like all the stuff that apollo and and jergins are doing where they're like well we got to pick this guy yeah because they'll believe in this guy and this is like how we're going to do this and what i'm going to do is knock him out here you know and it's like all the stuff that

feels like it's not the the uh pure athleticism and the triumph of a um of like the little guy over the big guy. It's like actually like there's all this other stuff happening in the grimy, CD underbelly. So like what else was doing that before this? Probably nobody. I can't remember. I couldn't really think of an example

of a sports movie that did that where it's like here's all this gross shit happening underneath. I'm sure there's like 1930s and 40s boxing movies where like a mafia guy is trying to get a boxer to take a dive or whatever. But Apollo is like manipulating the media in this. Certainly. It's a movie that at its heart is about

this guy's, golden opportunity. Yeah. But then it also gets into why that's happening. Yeah. Everybody wants to believe somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, someplace right now that people are having a conversation about you that's going to end in you doing this great, amazing thing.

And then to watch that happen and then watch the guy that is happening to, knowing that he did absolutely zero to like deserve it, it's all. Right. Turn down the fight when it's offered him. Yeah. immediately turns it down. Like, I don't deserve to be in the ring with that guy. He's that self-aware.

But it's the thing that's going to save his life and propel him. Like, legitimately in the last scene of the movie, when Adrian is walking to the ring, like her hat falls off. Like her hat falls off. She looks back for the hat. That version of her is gone now. Yeah.

Like the mousy. Like, I don't know that I'm beautiful. I'm trying to hide from the world version. And then the Rocky 3 version's coming. Right. She's got to go into a coma first. Yeah. Rocky 3, Adrian.

looks fantastic. So it's like the movie just tells this unbelievable story that everybody wishes was was their story. Yeah. Guy, loser, got nothing going, gets his one chance, actually comes through, gets the girl, and then it's ripped off for the next 48, 48, 49 years, which I think is unfairly held against this. The only other nitpick is just that there's, it's, there's some slow parts.

I think this is one of the five movies I've seen the most, just because it's been around for so long. Was this like an early watching it on cable over and over again or do you have it on tape? You didn't see this in the theater, right? Oh, I did. I have a whole story.

I saw in Dedham, Massachusetts with my dad. This must have been big in Boston. There were not a lot of non-whites in the theater. I'll just say that. You guys are, yeah, fuck him, get them, get them. Get off our bosses. Wasn't a diverse crowd with Dedim. But it, but it,

First of all, it was amazing. Like, I just never had been to a movie like that. But leaving, my big memory was being confused whether he won the fight or not. And asking my dad, like, but what was the scorecard? Yeah, right. But they said 8-7 Apollo, and then they never said what the rest of the card was.

And I was just so confused. And then upon rewatches, you realize what happened. See, I was very much more, I think I might have first seen Rocky 4 in the theater. went backwards. So Rocky One exists in this really weird. In the prequel world. Yeah.

Well, it just is like, when you watch it when you're younger, you're kind of like, this sucks. You know, like this guy's a loser. Everything does not pay like the most flattering portrait of Philadelphia. And you're just kind of like, oh, man, this is a real bummer. I much prefer two and three and four. But then as you get older, I think you see the artistry of it. And you realize it's part of like the context. It's essentially like Stallone making Mean Streets.

If you first see Rocky 3 or 4, like I did as well, it's not even the same species of human that Rocky is. They have discovered the steroids by the time 3 and 4 have come along. They don't even look the same. Rocky 1 is, those movies are action movies, essentially. Rocky 3. Rocky 3, those are big action movies. It's really all about the physicality of the film. Of course, there's the character stuff in there, too.

Crossed with like a music video where it just moves. from big sequence to big sequence. Right. Like this one, you got to give yourself some space with it for a long time. I didn't enjoy it at all. The more I started to actually live life

and understand, and got the understanding that life is a lot more like Rocky One than it is like Rocky One. The movie just, it gained a lot of real estate with me. Well, it also feels very mid-70s as a movie.

This ties into a lot of other great movies. I mean, this is such an unbelievable time for movies. That's 74 to 78 stretch. And just the way they did it, I just think even five years later, the movie is different. Like, we're only, they make this in 76. We're eight years away from Karate Kid, which is the next, the 2.0 version of this movie. Yeah. And that is a completely different movie in every respect.

This is slow. It's really trying to build character. It's trying to have these little moments. It's a love story. It has some characters that are awful. When you talk about Karate Kid and you even talk about, about movies like, I don't know, the John Hughes movies and even up to Top Gun. It's just a much different portrait of like American life because this is so urban.

And then you see movies sort of start to look towards the suburbs for storytelling because it's a lot safer and cleaner and prettier to do that. But this is so like, it looks like the depression, you know, like when you're... Takes you no world, which we love on the rewatchables. Those movies have a lot of style to them too. Yeah. You know, you got, you know, cruel summer and all of that stuff. This film is just devastatingly emotional.

Yeah. You like, it really makes you believe. How many times did you tear up? You know what's funny? Like, I really, I cried, literally cried when Rock is yelling at the door and Mick is walking away. He's talking about the fact that he's felt abandoned by him. Yeah. I'm right here!

What about my friend? And then just the, I hate the character. I've always hated this character. this character is my number one op in film history. Pauli. My number one op in film history. We have a lot of Pauli stuff coming. Yeah, but like the Pauli stuff,

Pauli is just a more desperate version of Rocky because he can't even box. Yeah. He's Rocky without the boxing. So he has nothing to take him out of his situation other than his proximity to this guy. That's pretty desperate. We have to go backwards to 76

because I just need to, because I'm old enough to remember this. I can't explain what a giant phenomenon This was, you know, like Jaws in 75, this in 76, Saturday Night Fever in 77, Star Wars in 77, where these movies would hit, and then there would be like seven, eight different outcomes from the movie hitting. And in this one, like the music, people started jogging. Like, for real.

Yeah. I don't, and maybe they were jogging before this movie, but I never remember seeing anyone jog before this movie came out. Didn't you have a big forest gum, like reinvigorated jogging, but you think. You think Rocky started talking? People always claim Jim Fix, but I always feel like Rocky, the concept of just people training

and being motivated to train. I remember, I'm not kidding, I was a little kid being in the living room because I was the only child and I'd play the Rocky soundtrack and I would just be in the main event boxing Apollo and just running around. Like, you know where you fake playing?

You're like hitting yourself and doing your listen to the music. Like this movie was... So you boxed Apollo, you were a Rocky and Apollo? I was Rocky. Oh, you were Rocky. I was Rocky.

I was like fighting this. Which one of your friends is you? Which one of your non-white friends? I was by myself. But this is what you did with this movie. We're going to make you Apollo. Come here and put your face over here. This is what you did though.

You jog to this movie. You shadow box to it. And then the other piece of it was just alone going from, I've never heard of this person before to this person's now in my life. And then think about how he's been in our life. I mean, this is, I don't know how many rewatchables we've done with him at this point. I don't know if there's been a bigger rags to Rich's actor story than this. It's Tarantino crossed with acting almost?

Yeah, but I was trying to think of also the people who have broken big and then stayed big with the story of making the movie mirrors the movie itself. You know, like his self-belief, his, I believe in like I'm betting on myself on this one. And if it means I can't even make the movie at all, I'm not going to compromise. And to actually catapult yourself into this kind of level of fame is astonishing. Yeah, he had to, first of all, everyone had to deliver to such a ridiculous level. The script is perfect. It's really well written.

And it's hilarious that Slice Stallone wrote it because, you know, it's like, ooh. No, it's really cool reading William Goldman breaking down. And he talks a lot about, like, the locker scene and all the different things you learn about Rocky from just him hitting the locker to open it up. One of my favorite script, like just little touches is when they watch the interview on TV. And they're kind of making fun of them in the interview after he takes the fight. And he's like, yeah, it doesn't bother me. And then he walks away. And Adrian's kind of watching him leave.

He's like, remember when I said, this stuff didn't bother me? It did. It did. And then he just walks up and be like, oh, man, this fucking guy, can he buy, Rock, can he buy a break? Can we just buy this guy a break? Is there a time, this is going to sound really whatever? But is there a time in a movie before this to where the old sports trope of watching the guy talk about, like, Apollo's on TV? Yeah.

And like Apollo's on TV. And you're the first time you see, like, you see them talking about it. You see them talking about the fighting. You're watching them on TV. They do that in sports movies, like, all the time now. Now, this is completely invented. This is why this is such an influential movie. we could talk about a million different things.

I mean, I'll say this. I think until Rod Tidwell, I think Apollo was the best kind of side sports movie character ever. Yeah. Like, if you actually watch all the Apollo scenes careful in this movie, he's a fucking amazing character. He's like a businessman. The way he talks, he's charismatic.

He's doing partly Ali, but he's also, I don't think Ali was like a businessman like this. Like, he's a thinker. Like, he's the one who figures out what to do in that fight. And, uh, and, uh, and, I don't, You just get a complete feel for him. You want to spend more time with them. And I have him in the finals against Rod Tidwell.

It's an interesting thing that he is the character that is in this movie utilizing race and capitalism. Right. All of that stuff against the every man. The Italian stallion. Right. It's almost, it takes that, you know, there's a specific. Because he knows. Yeah.

He knows what's going to sell. and it's like he's got to fight a white guy from Philly. But it's a great juxtaposition too because the three or four of the main characters of this movie are like almost nonverbal. They're like barely articulate. Right. No, but like, no, you're right. That was like a nice way to put it.

Yeah. Like, I mean, Adrian Polly and Rocky are kind of like either drunk, shy to the point of petrification or like brain dead. Yeah. And then. Adrian's basically Raymond Babbitt for the first 40 minutes of this movie. Yeah. Until he pulls the glasses off. She's like playing with the Cincinnati Reds baseball cards.

He awoken something in her. But then... He sure did. But so you basically, like, when Apollo is narrating all this stuff of, like, I don't want Bob Justice or whoever the fuck he was going to fight. Like, that's the only thing that kind of keeps this movie going for a while because otherwise it's just people wandering around in the dark, you know? Like, it's... The promoter is great, too. Juergens?

Every Juergens moment is great. But there's that scene when they're just beating the shit out of each other in the end. And it just cuts to him. He's just sitting there with, like, his fucking cigar just, like, he's just like... Like, yeah. Box office. And then even when Apollo's going through and he clearly lost the fight, you could watch the movie 15 times on the row and Apollo lost, right?

He definitely lost the first two rounds. Yeah. So I guess 14 might have been a 10-8. And it's like there's a statement that the movie is making about how cynical Apollo was about picking Rock. And how he doesn't train hard enough. Exactly. That was one of the big scenes when the Meat Locker, whatever that scene when Duke's watching it.

It's like, yo, man, this guy means business. And Apollo's like, yeah, yeah, I mean business too. And he's just like reading the Wall Street Journal. I love Apollo. Apollo is so great. But that character in a way, that's a revolutionary character. No question. Particularly as a black man right there to be the guy that he's the one that's talking specifically about America and the American dream and everything that American.

And he's like conducting a little bit of a symphony. he was like, well, it's Philly, they're going to go for this Italian guy, Columbus, the bicentennial. Like, he's orchestrating a story. It's six years after they wouldn't let Ali fight. Yeah. And this is like clearly like it's an Ali-based character. And the reason Stallone came up with the idea for the movie is he's watching Webner Ali in 75, which was the real-life version of this.

Webner ends up suing him and underscore settlement. Yeah. But that's part of the lore of the movies. Stallone watched that fight. Webner was like this, you know, there's been documented as movies. about him, but he's banged up face. He's getting killed by Ali, but last 15 rounds. Stallone's so inspired, pumps

out the movie in three and a half days. Can I ask a question about going back to what you guys were talking about? With Goodwill Hunting being the same mode of a movie where the guys just went, we're going to make our own movie and explodes. Yeah, the only difference, though, is those guys... They haven't around for a while.

But those guys had been in movies. They hadn't had their A-list break, but they had been in stuff. Like, AFAC was in chasing Amy the year before, and Damon was in a bunch of stuff. I think he'd gotten the Rainmaker by then. He was in school ties. The rainmaker hits almost...

Stallone was in Paradise Alley. That was it. And I think also, I mean, I don't remember. I'd have to go back and look, but like, I don't know that Damon and Affleck would have said no if they were like, we're going to make this script, but like these two giant movie stars are going to be and you guys get paid for the script.

Like, I think they may have been like, hey, we're keeping it moving and we're... I don't know. It was like, Stallone was basically like... This has to be me. writing it and starring in it or it's not getting made. Well, there was a piece that I didn't know about how he sold it to ABC with Henry Wincloth because they worked together.

And then ABC was basically like, we're changing everything. Thanks for the script. Here's some money. And he convinced Winkler to give it back to him. Well, no, and crucially, it's like, Winkler has to go back to ABC, ask for the script back. They're like, no thanks. But he's the Fonzs. And then he's like, I'm Fonzie.

So if you don't want to fuck with Happy Days, you'll give it back or you sell it back to me. It costs. And then it's this two-year dance or one-year dance, however long it was, people wanted to buy the script but put a famous actor or a con or whatever. I got to say it's an amazing in the bet on your,

if there was the bet on yourself book, Stallone betting on himself is a chapter. Yeah. I'll take way less money. I have to star in it. I want to be the writer and star. Is there a version of Stallone's career where he is primarily a writer?

That he's more of a filmmaker, if he just sells. I think he's too charismatic. But he is suggested or like when he talks about it, like I think that he is suggested that that's like a career he would have happily had, you know, like that he really wanted to be a filmmaker and he thinks of himself as an artist more than like, you know, in some ways like Rocky is Golden Hand Club cups, right? He's returned to this franchise over the decades

so many times, but. Rambo too, Rambo. Yeah, but I wonder if he's like, I would have liked to have made more movies that are like on the waterfront or whatever, you know, I mean. Well, he definitely yeah, he didn't write first blood. He, you know, Rocky, the moment this comes out of It's like, all right, let's make Rocky 2. Come on, guys. What are we waiting for? And then that comes out. And then he's trying, he's in Nighthawks.

He's in victory. But then he has that second run with Rocky 3 in First Bloods, same year. And then that's it. He has one of the best probably six-year A-list movie star runs ever. All seemed inconceivable if you watch Rocky 1. He's got to lose weight. He's got to look more leading man. It was tough to separate Rocky from Stallone.

You know? Like, he's in Nighthawks. he grew beard. Yeah. And he's like, all right, I'm street cop, Stallone. And then he's in victory. He loses a ton of weight and he's to go in. It's like, all right, it's still rocky.

And it really took him until, I would say, 82, 83 to be Stallone. Yeah. And obviously, he spends most of his career, like, in and out of that persona, really until Copland. Yeah. Yeah.

Another physical transformation there. Yeah. By the way, we've done, this is our 11th Stallone rewatchable. So he's moved into the top five. What all have you guys done? he's tied. I mean, we've done a bunch of them. I thought you might crash in

a hackman at the last second here. Well, I'm waiting for the results. Cruz 15, De Niro Puccino 13, Denzel and Stallone 11. That's our top five. Awesome. How many more Stallones are still sitting there?

Are you scouting? Are you at the combine looking at stolen movies? There's a couple good ones left. We haven't done lockup. We haven't done daylight. You a daylight fan? I like daylight. Stallone has You did cliffhanger, right? We did cliffhanger. I was always ready to do it again, though.

But see, the Salones, I mean... Rambo, too, we haven't done? So you're never going to do Cobra, right? Murdoch. Did Cobra already. Did Cobra? Oh, fuck yeah. I love Cobra. Have you done Tango and Cash? Yes.

Oh, shit. Well, you got... Tango and Cache is one of my favorite movies. Well, we can... This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. Every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon, sipping small batch brews. every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater.

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One of my favorite movies. Let's, we'll take a break, come back a little more to talk about this movie. Just quickly on the ultimate sports movie recipe, surprise out of nowhere star, killer supporting parts. So we mentioned Apollo Creed, but you also have Mickey. You have Polly the least likable character, probably the 1970s other than maybe Travis Bickle. And then Adrian. And then you have Gatso, the lone shark guy. My God.

And you have Gatsos driver, the funniest character probably of the 1970s. And then you have Juergens. Yep. And Duke, who's not named in Rocky One and eventually becomes Duke, Paula was like a son to me. Yeah. I raised him. When he died, a part of me died too.

Duke has some all-time heaters. Why wasn't Duke? Duke has some Duke. Duke's the best. The guy's all wrong for us. Like Duke has some... I don't like Southpaws. Duke

has some all-time heaters when you just let Duke cook, man. So we got the killer sporting parts with perfect underdog story. Great music. Great all-time sports movie music. Multiple chill scenes. I was called him chill scenes

when you're watching the gonna fly now and he starts racing the boat. And then the great ending. This is the recipe. This is the recipe that was then copied for 48 years. Well, you were watching this, I know you're kids

maybe you just assume but like did you watch were you watching this being like and of course like Rocky's got got a win at the end right like oh yeah the sports movie like idea of like this bad news bears too those were the two movies that year that flipped

oh you think they're going to win at the end watch this and then they don't win something else about the movie to me it establishes the sports movie to where a victory for our main character is this transformational victory for all of our supporting characters too.

Everybody learns a lesson along with Rock. Probably got $3,000. Paulie, like Rock pulls everybody, Mickey, everyone. By the time you get to like Cinderella Man, you realize that he's not just fighting for him, he's fighting for Giumadi, he's fighting for, everyone kind of gets pulled out of their thing

by what this guy does. Well, some other stuff, other piece of this big picture, we mentioned the Stallone Breakout movie Adrian is not a wet blanket in this movie but we get to Rocky 4

and it's full bloom doesn't even go to Russia with him I think for the most part a really great sports movie girlfriend in this one like just additive supportive wants them to win

loves them so much she can't go out there to watch the fight doesn't want to see him get but then can't resist has to come out a different time in the American economy

when a woman could make a living working in an exotic fish store in South Philadelphia or in Kensington. Never more than one customer in there. How much we made today, Adrian, $6? And they're just getting fucked over? $6, yeah. That's okay.

Did those caviar eggs sell yet? We're providing a big service to the community. We're right across the scummy gym in a porn theater. I don't know where everyone is today. Adrian, you know, the guy singing doo-wop can use the toilet. So, you know, we play our part.

All-white du-op group. We're going to get to it. Stallone's bro. Frank. All-white du-op group. Loved it. Your Mickey thoughts. So, you know, haven't been around the boxing gym a lot.

Everybody in there is essentially Mickey. Like, you know, they have their favorites. They do the whole, you're not putting enough. into your boxing career. When I was a kid, I didn't like Mickey. I thought that Mickey sucked. As I got older, something changed. I'll tell you what it is.

When you get older, the first thing you lose patience for is people squandering their talent and their ability. That's the first thing that goes. I didn't know why people used to do that to me like when I was a kid. I'd be like, look how big man is. And one of my uncles would be like, yeah, he ain't going to do nothing with it. I'd be like, God damn, I'm eating my cereal. What the fuck is wrong with you?

But now when I look at Mickey and I go, he was so disappointed in Rocky because he saw what Rocky could have been and that's why he was treating him like shit. So that's a character that you kind of age with. Because at first, when I first saw the movie, I was like, well, I had seen the O-in and Rocky loves Mickey so much.

I was like, why? He's kind of an asshole. For the first hard time. Rock's coming into the gym smoking a lung dart. Hey, where's my lockers? Hold on dessert ashtray. Mick gives his locker away. To the dipper.

Continuously tells him how shitty he is. And then becomes kind of grifter when the $150,000 deal comes by now. It's such an important scene. It's also like shows Mick in this like incredibly, I mean, maybe not self-consciously vulnerable way where he's like, look at the newspaper clipping of me. And you're just like, oh, this is a guy who has newspaper

clippings about himself, like, stuffed into his pockets. Like, he's kind of pathetic in some ways, yeah. I got hot, but I ain't got no locker, do I'd make? Yeah, tough one. That's a great thing. It's like, I'm 75 years old. Like, it never happened for me. I just want to be around anyone who still has the chance that it could happen for them.

So, this movie won three Oscars, Best Picture, Director, and Editing, 10 nominations, first sports film ever to win Best Picture. This was kind of an amazing. Oscars year. Let's talk about it. It beats all the President's men, network, taxi driver, bound for glory. Jesus.

John Avilson wins for Best Director. He beats Alan J. Kulah for all the President's men. Immar Bergman, Sidney Lumet for Network and whoever did seven beauties. And then Stallone loses

to Peter Finchon Network. De Niro loses. as Travis Bickle. And William Holden I would make the argument. I think Holden's better network than Peter Finch, but aside from that, like...

That's probably a De Niro year, if we're redoing that one. And then Talley Shire, not nominated. But we do have Burgess Meredith and Bert Young, both nominated, but Jason Robards wins

for all the president's men. All right, you're litigating this. Who wins in 76? So for Best Picture, definitely, I think, all the president's mentioned one best picture. Now you can make the argument

that taxi driver cinematically is more importantly like in movie history but I just think all the president's meant as a perfect Oscar best picture movie. I would go all the press

well network's really great though yeah that which really is I would go all the president's been from movie and I would go Scorsese for best director. But the important part here is it's not Rocky. It's not rocky but I think

that speaks to how unique the movie was and part of what made people respond to it was they just never seen anything like this. And it really affected them. The Oscars fall for phenomenon a lot.

And if the movie was a phenomenon that you say it was, they get swept up in that. It's a very relatable. It's like crash. Yeah. Jesus. $1.1 million budget made $225 million, spawned five sequels and three Creed movies,

so eight sequels overall. I wonder how that money got chopped up. 1.1 made $225, but it's got to be so much more than $225 when you factor in the sequels. This has to be a multi-billion-dollar franchise, right? like four, $3 billion?

I wonder how they even quantify like the economic impact it had on Philadelphia. Like, you know what I mean? Like they don't have points on that but like it's crazy how this is like a, in a lot of ways, a world changing movie.

Yeah, like video games, cartoons, it creates an American mythology. Like Rocky is not a movie character. He's like more akin to like, I don't know, Paul Bunyan. You refer to Rocky as like, oh, it's like a Rocky

story. This guy's coming out of nowhere. I mean, we still do it today. You could say Rocky Jaws, Saturday Night Fever, and the Godfathers just, like, created this new form of pop culture, at least a piece of it. But the crazy part about it is,

when you watch it, you would never think that. Like, when you watch the first 45 minutes of Rocky, you're like, wow, I'm watching a really, really sad character. Yeah, this is like an indie movie. Yeah. Roger Ebert, our guy.

four stars last week for crash. Four stars this week for Rocky. A description of it would sound like a cliche from beginning to end, but Rocky isn't about a story. It's about a hero. And it's inhabited with supreme confidence by a star his name is Sylvester Stallone.

Just raves and raves and raves. Rod's a love story. What's the exact perfect age to see this movie? What do you guys think? 13. I had 13. Do you need to be in puberty and care about girls or a little bit

or they care about romantic relations of a little bit because otherwise you're going to be really bored for the first two sorts of this. I said 13 in 1993, but like now, at this particular time, and I think you'd have to be like 26 or 27. I think that the kids that watch this,

that would watch the movie now, a lot of them, they're not going to stick it out with Rocky through the early parts of this. I know my kids didn't. My kids wanted to watch Rocky 3 and Rocky 4. Yeah. This was too slow, first 45.

Most rewatchable scene. I got to start. I have a bunch. I have probably too many. But I love the beginning with the Spider-Riko fight. Pre-credits. The headbutt gets me. I like the smoke after the fight when Spider-Riko is just lying on the bed.

You got Loki. And it goes right into, I like when they get paid. Spider gets $70.20. Rocky gets $40. I love that they're taking taxes out on these guys. I can't sure that's going to the government. And then he wants to get paid. walks out and we go in to take it back

with our diverse duop group. Yeah. And then we're into the opening credits. Just to back up a second, if you don't get the theme song and the title sequence and the fight in the beginning of this movie, I think a lot of people would be like, what the fuck am I watching? Because

it gives you the sense, if you just start with this guy like wandering through the night, Philadelphia, smoky I think people would be like, yo, I thought this was a sports movie, you know, but this gives you hey, just so you know, at some point it's coming, and this guy can fight. Right. And so you stick around.

You think you could take Spider-Riko? No. I don't know. I'm pretty good in the ring, though, man. Couple rounds? Maybe. I'll tell you one thing about that scene, though. That is one of the worst in terms of, like, aesthetically, boxing movie scenes ever. And it's interesting. Because of the boxing or because of like that?

No, there's this portrayal of the sport. When I say worse, I mean, The way... Unflattering. I'm fluttering. It's what I meant to say. This portrayal of the sport that these guys are in there

just killing themselves for nothing. It's completely dirty. It's corrupt. It's just the worst part of it. The fans are awful. Fans are awful. The whole deal. And the first thing Rocky says is,

when can I fight again? Like, there's something that he's putting himself through and the first thing you go is like, why? And that question is answered at the end of the movie. The end of the movie, the movie takes the entire,

movie to answer the question of why would someone put themselves through what what rocky's going through in the first scene is because you might you could possibly Mick everyone is chasing that walking out there at the end and so that kind of pays it off but when you when i watch that scene it's like it's fucking disgusting and terrible and exploitive in the whole night and i was thinking about how they you know in creed which very closely follows some of the structures of rocky like the first fight is in Tijuana and it's like no Creed can fucking fight like Creed's knocking this dude out

and it's not like oh why is this guy fighting? He's like watching me like he can fight yeah yeah but we're not in Creed he's the guy who's already knows that it's over yeah I'm combining three small

scenes together because they're all in a row Apollo breaking out his bicentennial plan Apollo I like it it's very American no Juergens it's very smart right into Gatsos driver.

Hey Rock. I heard she's retarded. Take her to the zoo. I hear retards like the zoo. I'm sorry to say the R word. It's so, it's so the driver is like the worst human being

probably ever. And every time he pops up, I'm like the driver. The movie. I like when Rock has had enough of it. He just goes after him. Yeah. I'm right in.

This guy just why does he hate Rocky so much? What are Rocky? Well, Rocky's not a very good collector. Rocky's letting a lot of guys off. Not breaking enough thumbs. Well, then we get right from there back to the office with Apollo going. This is what I'm looking for.

The Italian stallion is softball. Like you mess around with softpaws. I like that whole section. Juergens making Rocky the offer. Right into the press conference. I fight in clubs. I'm really a ham and egger. We stopped using the phrase ham and egg.

Him asking the secretary for the business. card back so that he can keep it as like a keepsake piece of memory. Yeah, there's so many good subtle touches like that in this movie. You're right. Oh yeah, this guy thinks this is like the only prox, like the closest he's ever going to get

success is being in this office. So he wants to keep everything he gets from it. He thinks he'd be a sparring partner. It's funny. This movie is the definition of a rewatchable because we know that we're looking at Rocky Balboa. I know. Yeah.

Yeah. Like we, he doesn't know that he's Rocky Balboa, but we know. It's like a superhero movie. Yeah. Like we know that. we're looking at Rocky Babboa.

We don't know he's going to end the Cold War. The whole deal, he's going to go on to become, he's already got like 21 losses, but he's going to end up, he's going to go on to become one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. The whole not, like we know we're looking at him. Rocky, do you believe America is the land of opportunity?

I said this to CR in 2011. I did. I was trying to get him to come to Grandland. It's like, CR? Do you believe? I also love, I just want to say how to my girlfriend, yo, Adrian. And then this is when they said this stuff on TV

didn't bother me done. It did. Mickey trying to convince Rocky to hire him, we mentioned. Yeah, of course. I never had no management. That's the trouble. I got all this knowledge. I got it up here.

And I want to give it to you. I want to give you this knowledge. I want to take care of you. I want to make sure that all this shit that happened to me doesn't happen to you. You know what I mean? The folks say, listen to me. I want to be your manager. You follow that.

The monologue improvised? I love the door opening and closing because he thinks Mickey left, but he didn't. Then he slams the door again. Then he opens. He just starts screaming coherently, which is some of my favorites alone. Yeah.

You're talking about pro. What about my pride, Dick? What about my pride? And then I like the world wordless reconciliation from far away. Just some good filmmaking. Yeah. Possible Great Shot Gordo.

What'd you have for Great Shot Gordo? Running up the art museum steps, steady cam. steps. Yeah. It's actually great shot Garrett because he's the steady cam

in the doctor. Oh, great shot Garrett. Rocky's TV interview in the meat freezer which also gets the Big Kahuna Burger award for best use

of food and drink. You could even argue it might have to replace the Big Kahuna burger. I'll be honest with you there's another candidate though. What do you got?

The turkey. Oh, that's a great one. Yeah, you're right. The turkey. Turkey's a tough one. Because Pauli keeps like the one gross And then he's like touching people with it with the grease.

He's wielding the turkey leg as a scepter as he's thrown her Thanksgiving turkey. I don't know what a bastard. And it's like the third worst thing he did in the movie. I like when they're doing the TV interview and they're about to film it. And the guy's like, hey, the meat guy's sticking his head in doing that. Duke's watching. Yeah, I'm in business too. Well, he hears him.

He hears the punches, right? Yeah. Because Duke's got his back to the TV and then he's like turns around slowly. what's going on here? Here's the punches against them. What do you think this would, if they had social media in 1976, how many views is this getting?

Him hitting the... Apollo's opponent punching meat in a meat locker. I feel like this is like 10 million. 10 million views, right? I tell you what, man. Charlam made sending that to you. Did you see this guy who's fighting Apollo? I don't know, bro.

This dude, is Apollo ready for this guy, bro? And Ariel's like, I heard that wasn't real meat. Yeah, right? All of a sudden, this goes into the Gun to Fly now training sequence, which I forgot. Like, we're like, oh, we're doing this. One-handed push-ups, races the huge boat,

second chance at the stairs, which we set up earlier with that 5 a.m. brutal training sessions. Honestly, I think this is one of the best sports movies scenes of all time. Of course it is. It has to be, if you're just arguing about them, this has to be one of the first ones mentioned.

Unless you want to go Rocky 2 on me with all the kids. Seriously, like inside of that building, the art museum is some of the greatest works of art in the history of the world. There's like medieval suits of armor. There's like tombs from Egypt. There's paintings from Impressionism. The dress could kill ladies' glove.

And it's just literally like every day there is a line of cars and vans waiting to take pictures of the Rocky statue there. It is still like this iconic thing. How important is this movie? This is going to sound so stupid. The city has so much history. How important is this movie

to the contemporary identity of Philadelphia? I think it was big during my childhood. It was huge during my childhood. Peaked in the 80s. I don't see a lot of dudes being like, man, Rocky's really means a lot to me. But it's like, you have to remember. Iverson's 25 years ago now.

So it's like, this is a very long time ago. They got my trunks wrong, that scene when he goes into the spectrum. Doesn't matter, does it? I'm sure you're going to give us a great show. And then he knows, like, oh, God, I'm going to fucking get smoke. Goes back, talks to Adrian. Nobody's ever gone to distance with Creed. and if I can go that distance

you see and that bell rings and I'm still standing want to know for the first time my life see I weren't just another I'm from the neighborhood I love all that stuff

you got me rock you had me a half hour ago I didn't need this speech you got me I'm splitting the fight up in the three scenes the entire fight entrance Polly got three grand I got the robe shrewd

the Uncle Sam entrance from a Paul which is great. Him talking shit to Sly. Sly's like so stupid in the pre-fight, but it's great. Is he talking to me? Yeah, he's talking to you. And then the Joe Frazier cameo is amazing.

Awesome. You hear people chanting like, Frasier in the background, yeah. Ducking me a long time! And then I love the nicknames. The Master of Disaster. Is that one of the best nicknames ever? Love it. King of Sting. All of that stuff.

First two rounds of the fight. The first round knockdown is one of the most exciting sports movie moments ever. Oh my God. I love the bar shot. The guys jumping around. In the first round, as they're like sort of feeling each other out, it's never like, those are like, he's actually like missing. Like they're not like, that's not bad stunt work or bad.

I think it's just slapping. Breaks his nose. Duke does though. He doesn't know it's a damn show. He thinks it's a damn fight. And then the end of round two is great. Yeah. Because it's like, oh, Rocky's not going away.

Here we go. We do the montage. 14th round. Next scene. I think this is my most rewatchable. This is because I cut me, Nick. No, I love the down, down, stay down. And he's just like, and Adrian comes out.

And then Apollo with the shoulder slumped is my favorite. Yeah. Where he's just like, man, he's fucking kidding me. This guy's got up again? You like that. And then he comes back with the, uh, uh, uh. And he's just all body shots. But they repeat the same shot.

It's two punches that they run twice. Reminds me of the fight that was on last week where... Oh, yeah, yeah. Where Zang just gets nuked out by body shots. Yeah. And that's his thing. He's going to go to the ribs just like the slabs of meat. Yeah, because don't they say Apollo's bleeding internally, basically?

Yeah, and he just can't handle it. Mickey calls it. Mickey tells that guy, he goes to the body, like nothing we've ever seen. Cut me, Mick is great, too. And then the ending... Cut me, Mick is so gross. So gross. Cut me, Mick is disgusting, y'all.

Against you know, the guy. I'd open my eye. Come me, miss. I don't want to do it. Oh, cut me. Cut me. Try it. Cut it.

Cut me, make, boom. I didn't even know that was a thing. It's so great that they bring the cut guy in at like the eighth inning. Hold on. I got my razor blade here. Let me get that. And then the ending, it seems like he's going to get him. Ain't could be no rematch.

Don't want one. Where's your hat? still champion Apollo. I don't know. Best sports movie ending ever. It's in the running. During the fight, especially on repeat viewing,

I think you can tell that the stadium's empty when they're fighting or very empty. They weren't counting on Blu-ray in 2025. Some of the ADR sound effects stuff

could have been better. But that bell, everybody rushing in, the overhead shot of everybody rushing in the music, him just being like you automatically,

kind of intuitively know it doesn't matter if he's won or not. It's because he's stuck through the whole fight he did win. Yeah, you earn the champ's respect. It's just like, holy shit, man. Polly finally does something nice. He lets the rope open for Adrian.

He doesn't get... And throws a turkey at her. What he wants, but he leaves the fight with so much more than what he came into the fight with, that even looking at him as battered and bruised as he is, you're like, it was worth it.

What's your most rewatchable scenes here? Going to fly now? I think I'd probably go with the training. Yeah, the finally getting up the art museum steps to go to fly now. I love the 14th round. I think it's the training, but I do want to just give some love to Rocky

and Adrian's first date. The ice skating rink. The ice skating rink. Where he's, he just demonstrates so many things. Number one, like, the script really is perfect. Because Rocky's talent is determination. Yeah. That's what his talent.

His talent is. His talent is determination. And throughout the whole movie, you just see a determined guy. He's going to get her on the ice rink. He's going to tell her the stupid Southpaw story. And you can just see them kind of closing in on each other to the whole time to where, you know, he kind of accosted her in his apartment later on. She's telling him about fish food. Yeah. I love the fact that the guy keeps yelling eight minutes.

Oh, seven minutes. But it's like it gives their date urgency. Like if you can't close here, you know. Hey, this episode of The Rewatchables is presented by State Farm. There's a lot to say when buying a new home or car, but only one thing to say when you need help to protect them, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. What's the most 1976 thing about this movie? I think White Duwop. That's up there. Yeah. I get it.

Maybe not in 1970. I mean, did we still have such voices back then? I don't know. Like Duwap? White duup. White duup. Well, Color Me Bad was like really the last moment. Yeah, but like...

Some of them were black, though. I know, but they had a couple of white guys there. Do you remember the last arrive? Have you ever seen a group of men singing in harmony on a street corner in real life? No. Yeah. Well, that's what I had most 1976 thing. Good-natured winos and doo-hop singers versus just fentanyl addicts, which we'd have now.

Oh, my God. Now we'd have people with no pants on just wandering a circle. These fentanyl guys could just carry a tune, you know? Yeah. If they could just sing a little bit, we could... That's a fucking guy, bro. take it back Bill pulling up

up with a fur coat Be like Let me hear a tune fellas All right And then throws him a quarter It wasn't there though Drunk and subscribe Drunk street characters

We're always like these Benevolent movie characters Like he picks up that one guy And brings him in the bar And she's like Let me put you over on the seat Right Have a drink with Eddie

Those days are gone A lot of the stuff that we lionize on this podcast, smoky dive bars, 1970 streets and stuff. This is the real shit in this movie. And it kind of makes me second guess whether I would love to be in a smoke-filled bar, the Lucky Seven Tavern with overhead lighting and three absolutely like guys dying of kidney failure. Right.

On Thanksgiving night. Thanksgiving Christmas, the shittiest lot. You know how many times in this movie somebody. accuses somebody else of stinking. It stinks. It stinks. It stinks. My house stinks.

It's about how stinks. This desperation. Wood's age the best. See, I mentioned the SteadyCam. This is the third movie ever they use the Steady Cam, but the most famous one. And Steady Cam, I would say, it's not an MVP of the movie, but it's first team on. Derek Brown, inventor of the Steady Cam, and he basically was like trying to get people interested in the technology. and Rocky winds up becoming more or less the guinea pig for the technology that changes cinema.

Apparently the run up the stairs was his idea because to show them how the steady cam worked, he did a test run with his wife to show them what it would look, show them what it would look like. And that led to how they did it. Apparently, they offered him either money or points in the movie and he took the money and has some regrets. Oh, God. Got a bet on yourself. It's a tough. That was not a good, that's not going to be in the bed on yourself, bro.

Gary Brown. What stage is the best? The music and the soundtrack still going. You hear that? I mean, how many years have they been playing that in sporting events?

Start of every fourth quarter in America, it feels like. I have a bunch. What do you have? Anything good? The actual turtles. Yeah. Still alive as of 2021,

which is the last, yeah, last reference I could find of them, but Stallone kept them. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's amazing. I'd sing with turtles.

They don't die. If you get a pet turtle, that's not like, oh, 10 years from now. Turtles do smell it, too. I got to say. Turtles are an L. Yeah.

You don't like them? No. I used to like them when I was back in Louisiana. I see turtles everywhere. Would you have them in the house, though? Probably not. Agnostic on turtles now. No, it's age the best.

Well, first of all, I personally think that just overall the sports movie, obviously, is age the best. But I think that this, it's because of Rocky. Yeah. I think without the success and the cultural penetration of this movie, I think the sports movie, period, it's just like much, much different. Like this is a serious...

Yeah, I wonder if somebody would have figured it out. They probably would have. But we don't know. Right. I'm sure they would have, right? It's just such an important piece of our culture. But man, does this movie just completely... It's like the Marlon Brando of sports movies. It changes the archetype, period.

You know what I was thinking about the other day is how come in sports media we're pretty obsessed with the great teams, the dynasties, the burgeoning dynasties, the chiefs, the Pats, the like, we're always talking about the Lakers and the NBA or whatever. But in movies,

we're never interested in the great teams. We're interested in the underdog teams or the underdog player. Like, nobody wants to watch... True greatness is an interesting. Yeah, you wouldn't watch Moneyball about Brian Cashman.

You know, you'd want to watch Moneyball about a guy trying to put together a team with less money than Brian Cashman. Like, we don't ever make movies that are about like,

ah, this is the story of the three Pete. I have a thought. It's probably, because when we're watching those dynasties, it's aspirational. And when we're watching the movies, it's inspirational.

We're definitely more Rocky than we are the Yankees. Everybody in this movie feels like they're Rocky. If you watch this movie and you felt like Apollo Creed, then you want some different shit, right? So we're, Rocky probably is why we have sports documentaries. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what I mean, though?

It's kind of interesting. Yeah, for sure. Well, it's interesting because one of the best sports books ever was The Game by Ken Dryden. which was about like the Montreal Canadians at the tail end of their dynasty trying to hold it together. It's fascinating. It's basically what the last

dance is about too. It's like can we stay together one last time? So we've seen it work in documentaries and books but I've never seen in a movie. But to his point though, and I've always wondered this, not only do we not get into the underdogs in real life,

but we hate them. We are relentlessly, critically. Oh, yeah. Like if a random wildcard baseball team wins, it's kind of like, this is annoying. Yeah, like we don't, we, it negates the regular season. Kind of don't like them.

Like, you know, a team's bad is, oh, they suck. I hate them. They're disgusting and all that. I'm like, look, it's just not having a good season, you know, so it's just different. We're hypocrites. Morwood saves the best. Racing boxing? I didn't know when this was going to come up.

You want me to take this one? It's the same space. Boxing is legitimately the only place where it's still completely acceptable to be totally tribal. Sure. I mean, some people would say that there are other places where it happens. But in boxing, you go to a place like the black guy versus Mexican guy, all the brothers are rooting for the black guy, all my Latino brothers and sisters are written for the Mexican guy. Or the English guys fighting. And it's just totally okay.

it's totally okay why are you at beating down I'm not being down no it's like this is just a weird era for sports movies because it's the

it's the 1.0 era but most of them are like you know it's like Hoosiers it's rocky it's a lot of our white hero trying to beat

whoever the black guy was in front of him or the black team and then it eventually shifts but I you know I just think that in this case it's clearly an Ali thing

and it feels like less of a black white thing but after the fact it feels black-white. I really think this is an Ali thing. It definitely is. Stallone is like, what if I fought Ali? And that's the premise of the movie. Oh, no, Stallone doesn't.

I don't think Stallone, I don't think the movie is conceived from the lens of race almost at all. But I think the perception after the fact was that it was. This is why it became so popular. This is why they had to have a sequel, so he would win.

Well, I think it was... I'm not saying it's right. There was no way to read it other than that at that time. But then if you... kind of realize how obsessive Sylvester Stallone is about boxing. Like, legitimately, Roy Jones Jr. was supposed to be in Rocky Balboa. He went out and laid an egg in a ring.

Stallone removed him from the movie and put Antonio Tarver in the movie. It was really good. Right. And so, like, when you, obviously the movie has racial undertones, overtones, the entire thing. But all of the race in the film comes from the Black Heavyweight Champion. Yeah. Like he is the one, and maybe that's intentionally done.

Well, it's also explicitly discussed how manipulating people's racial biases will lead to a bigger payday, lead to a bigger audience, right? Yeah, yeah. Let's get this guy because of this city, because of this time, and like, here's the story we're going to tell about him. I think this movie is clean on the race front from Stallone's hands. Rocky Three's becomes a different story. I mean, yeah, you know. Stallone might not be that clean.

The movie itself is. But also, like, even small things. Like, Rocky's locker gets given to. Dipper. Dipper. Dipper. Younger. Yo, Rock, I dig your locker.

He's like, you put me on Skid Row. Yeah. Is that the most boxing gym moment ever? The guy taunting Rock from the ring that he digs his locker just out of nowhere? Yeah. It's a pretty good one. It is a pretty good one. Do you ever have moments in the gym where everybody stops training at once because something has happened in the gym?

Yeah. That is like when Mick and Rock are yelling each other and everybody just stops? Well, when you're in the gym. gym with that much testosterone that normally happens because two people have taken something that happened inside of the ring. Yeah. Like outside of the ring. Right. You know what I mean? And so like, because the boxing gym is a pretty

chill place. It's like very chill. But once again, the tribalism still exists in there. I have said stuff in the boxing gym that I wouldn't say anywhere else. Like Phil goes, well, I remember one time Phil going to walk in the gym, Phil goes, hey, Van, got somebody for you to work with, and I go, I'm not sparring any more Mexicans.

I just, I just remember And I said it and everybody's laughing. I'm like, I'm in here for, you know, fitness. I'm not trying to fight somebody that's fighting for the honor and a family. So, you know, it's... Letting you finish. Bill's making a playlist of his favorite duop. I was talking about this.

Looking at my outline. Very determined fighters is all I'm saying. Well, that was like that card we were watching the other day. when uh who's the guy Sergio Amora? Yeah. He's from Ghana. Those guys are warriors.

We were texting about it. We were talking about it, see? And every time he said it, there was just dead silence from his partners. And then he would just double back on it. This is what I was telling you about Ghana. Borwood's the best. The 5 a.m., this is the first day I'm going to start my training. Yeah.

And it's just being the most miserable thing ever. I think is perfect in this. It's like, I'm going to start, here's my alarm, I'm going to have some eggs, do a little run, maybe run the steps, and it's just like by the end of it, you're holding your side, you're coughing up five cigarettes,

and it's just super depressing. I loved how they did it and then brought it back. I think it's really smart. Can we talk about Angry Mickey, who has quotes like, yeah, I said that before you, dumb dago. Then he goes, yeah, I know, woman, weak a leg.

Guys from Ghana, warriors. He does that. Rock's like, I know woman weaken legs. And he goes, we'll let her train you. You're going to eat lightning and you're going to crap thunder. I love his, like, just Burgess. So I knew Burgess Meredith as the penguin and the Batman series because I used to love that series. See?

Once upon a time, Van. See? Yeah, you used to be one of us. I love the Batman series. And then we're like, the penguin's going to be mixed. Rainer? Twilight Zone. Oh, he's the one with the

glasses? Yeah. Morwood's the best. The meat freezer is just an amazing. Whoever thought of that, give them a gold star. 1970s Philly is fun.

Yeah. I mean, you could get into some trouble out there. It seemed really, it's like, it's like when Philly was really in a lot of, like, economic despair.

Yeah. Well, I don't think New York and Boston were doing any better. It's pretty fucked up everywhere. Yeah, I think that 70s were rough. So it's mostly Kensington. kind of like Port Richmond shot there. You put my stuff on Skid Row?

It's like that little. They call when you lose your locker, you go to Skid Row in the box of gym at the Descan. Buckis, Stallone's real dog that Stallone sold for $50 because he was so broke when he was writing this movie. He sold him real life, then got it back after he sold the script.

That's nice. And then brings Buckis in there. He gets a lot of breaks here, Stallone, getting his script back, getting his dog back. Giving Buckus the Brandy Booth Award. Best Performance by a Pet. Multiple great scenes by Buckkiss. Wood stage the best, the Rocky Marathons

that eventually get on TV once we got to three or four and they would just run them all in a row. Although I never understood why they would run all of Rocky 1, start Rocky 2 at the end of Rocky 1 again. Just kind of mean? Do you go right into the start of Rocket Tour. It's like, do it with the Godfather. They'll just.

put the first three together. Another would say the best. Any scenario where a boxer, UFC fighter, tennis player or golfer is an out of nowhere story and you just think of Rocky immediately. Yeah. Right? Especially like with the combat sports, you think of that.

Last thing, Talia Shire, as Adrian, three best picture movies in five years. Godfather One, Godfather 2 and Rocky. What a run. Yeah. It's like a fucking Scotty Pippin kind of 90s bulls run by her.

She's great in this. She's really good in this. Yeah. I want to like nitpick it, but I can't. I think she's good. And it's different than Connie Corleone. I feel like she's a different character, right? Connie probably has, well, I mean,

Bufo go you. Bafat cool you. Come on. I kill you. You kill it like your father. What an intense scene. Go on, come on. I was watching Godfather the other day,

the amount of time somebody's like, you think I'm going to make my godson of an orphan? And it's just like, I am. Yeah. And they just kill. Like, they just a straight lie. Like a whole family of liars.

I like at the end when she's a new godfather run when she's mad at Michael. Spitting on him? She's like, I know you did him. And then Michael's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Carlos in Vegas. He didn't call? What's going on?

You can ask you about my business this one time? Did you do it? No. No. Why? Door close right on her. The only other Woodstage is the best I had, other than Gazo's driver and the steady camel

was... Cosmos driver is just a comedic genius. He's just on the screen and you're like, oh my God, this guy. John Avonson, the director said the original ending, Apollo was carried out by the crowd, and so was Rocky, and he pulled Adrian up on his shoulders, and they had the happiest night of their life, and that was going to be on it, and they couldn't pull it off.

So then they did this second ending when he walks down the aisle and sees Adrian because he lost, and they hold hands, and they walk into the back, and it didn't work. and they decided to reshoot it with the Bill Connie music and came up with the third version of the ending and Avald says out that that saved the movie.

Like the movie, the ending would have sucked. It would have been a downer. It's so cool that you don't really leave the ring. I don't think we wanted to see like that. She legitimately comes into his world. Yes. By the way, about her performance, I think she actually grounds the movie with her performance.

Yeah, she's good. I think at the beginning of the movie, she's kind of the only person. Because even, I mean, Rock is a dude, but he's very over the top kind of as well. You know, like, but I think like her subtlety and vulnerability kind of rounds the movie. And she's also the person who's just like, look around me, like, this sucks so much. I have to make myself small so that this doesn't kill me. Like, you know, she's just like, I don't want to like see it.

I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to like talk about it. One of my hot takes about this movie is I don't think Polly was a very good brother. was one of my takeaways I don't know if you guys noticed that some of the stuff he did it wasn't it's coming great check order award we said the 5 a.m. training ending

the first time with the wide shot of Philly Kid Cutty pursued happiness award Best Needle Drop Could you change this to Gunna Fly now? I had reflections which is the one that Samples Cool in the gang which was later used by Fresh Prince in summertime

It's just like that I like that I like that There's a there's a There's a record that plays at the end of the movie that was sampled by somebody else in the very popular song that I loved in the 90s. What song?

Songs called Victory. By notorious B.I.G. Yeah. At the beginning, somebody wraps on the song. But yeah. Somebody who might be in a lot of trouble these days? When I hear the beginning of it, I just think immediately of that record.

And I started doing it almost reflectively. I'm like, yo, the sun don't shines forever, but as long as it's, and then I was like, oh, wow. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. It's tough. The Chess Rockwell and Brocklanders Award for Best Character Name. Easy.

Rocky and Apollo. It's got to be Apollo Creed. Apollo Creed is the single best fictional name. So good. It's literally to me up there with Darth Vader. It's also cool because he talks about names throughout the movie. Right. I'm like, oh, no, that's the name.

I'd say, don't sleep on Spider-Riko. I really did enjoy him as well. All right, Van, you're up with the flex category. Did you have a flex category you picked? Yeah. The Polly Award for Asshole of the film. Goes to Polly? It goes to Polly.

Dude, does this need to be a new award? This is also the weeklink of the movie. The whole nine. I had him coming up. I had him coming up in what stage is the worst. There are very few characters that are pure asshole, just all asshole and it gets worse because we now know

that at the end after Rocky gets his fucking face beat in for 15 years building a fortune what is the reason that Rocky loses all of his money? Rocky 5 never happened. I don't care. He loses all of his money and has to open up a small Italian

restaurant. Paulie. Because Polly gives power of attorney to some crazy person and then Rocky gets all of his money taken. Polly's terrible. He is I thought he had some decent moments in Rocky 4. Not to defend Polly, but, you know,

it's just him and Duke and Russia. There's no other trainers. You're like him a robot? That was like, no, just there was a couple. Rocky 4 is probably the best version of Polly.

But Rocky 1, Polly is one of the worst human beings in a movie. He's a pimp. He literally pimps his sister out. He says, I go out and get your meat every morning.

You forgot that. Then even give you my sister too. You're such a loser. I didn't get married because of you. You can't live by yourself. I put you two together. and you don't forget it, you owe me. Rocky should have punched this guy to death.

Rocky should have at least thrown him out the fucking window, but should have hit him and you know what would have happened? Nothing. Not a single person that neighbor would have been like, not Pauly. It would have just been like he had it coming. He said you're busted to his sister. That's like the worst thing.

You could possibly say to your sister. I mean, Rocky is kind of complicit because Pauly makes her go out with him. Paulie comes in, he throws, he sacrifices Thanksgiving turkey. That's an all-time asshole move. She goes, I mean, she goes, it's Thanksgiving. I can't go on a date because I'm making the turkey. And it's like a really normal response.

It's not like she's like, I have social anxiety. I can't go on a day. She's like, I've been making your fucking dinner all day. I've been making a Thanksgiving turkey. This dude takes the turkey, throws it out of the window, and then eats a piece of it. So he gets some turkey for himself. And she's got to go out with Rock on Thanksgiving. She's got to go to the stink house after the ice rink with no thanks.

Thanksgiving dinner. He's an abomination. It really jumps out every time you watch it because in like the 70s day, it's like, ah, Polly, that irascible. You know, deep down, it's like, there's nothing to like about it. Living in between Rocky and Polly,

where those two assholes are like yelling out the window, like, oh, Polly, I got your sister. Yeah. My sister's a pig. It's just like, I would just feel like, come on guys. Polly Ponino.

Yeah, we need a Polly Panino. Why is this character so awful? category, something like that. What's with you? I had the for the Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film, either Polly or the,

just the Rocky Adrian courting scenes are so slow now in 2025. They're just, yeah. It's 25 minutes of content that now you probably do nine. Yeah.

I like the skating rink. I know you like the skating rink at the same time. If there's a transcript of it, it would be the worst transcript ever. I think the problem with the skating rink is it could have just ended with a kiss at the skating rink

rink and that would be the end of the first date and instead he's like, let's go back to my house. And I'll show you look through. You won't come in? That's the It's the skating rink. Then he has to convince her to come inside.

Then he has to convince her to stay inside. He's got to do the... Then he's got to show the guns. Then he's got to do the whole. It's like, all right, we get it. And then he starts denying his bodily fluids. That's the tough part, you know? Gets her hooked on it.

And he's just like, no. Because at the end, she becomes like a little mix. Yeah. She's ready. She jumps on it. Well, she's discovered parts of herself. She didn't exist. You want me to rub you down?

Yeah. She's become a sexual human being. Right. My flex choice, does Steven Segal hard to kill a word for did this movie need a better intimacy coordinator? He kind of mauls her a little bit in the first kiss. Yeah, and I'm just, I'm trying to be kind of rocky. It's a little bit of a mall. He also, I mean, she doesn't have a lot of options in that scene.

Like he's kind of like, especially she's nowhere to go because she's trapped in a lot. Yeah. She's like, can I use the phone? He's like, oh, no, no. It's a little uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah, he subtly asked for consent. I'm going to kiss you now.

But at that point, she was in a spot. And I don't feel like she felt like she could do anything else. I also just another one I would add is the Champagne Award for Excellence in Smoking. I thought Stallone smoking was excellent. But we need to maybe add another cigarette award here, which is the Sylvester Stallone Award for smoking so much in a movie that you quit. In real life? In real life, he quit after Rocky because he was like, it was too gross. I'd smoked so much on Rocky.

I had to quit. Oh, interesting. Didn't know that. That wasn't in my research, C.R. Stallone is for quitters. Yeah. Wow.

Wood's age the worst. Everything about Polly. Chuck Wepner. Nobody's going to dry up. He just is the worst. What mean thing didn't Polly say to his sister? No one says, Paul, you piece of shit, shut up. Yeah.

Right. Nobody, he, nobody punches him at a bar or anything. He disses the way she looks. He disses her age. He disses everything. I thought about quitting, thinking last night watching Paulios.

This is like, this is not. Chuck Webner, that whole story is the worst. You mentioned the fight crowd scene, CR. This is the biggest kind of nitpick all these years later where I just wish somebody had done a George Lucas and just paid the 50 grand to CGI some fans all over the place. So about for like for the re-release and stuff? Yeah, just if you're going to be, hey, we got Rocky on Blu-ray.

Just spend the 50K. Maybe James Cameron could stop making Avatar movies and instead single-handedly populate the spectrum. Like how we want to be the sports movie consultants. Like James Cameron should be like, let me just help out a couple of these classics. I'll just put some fans in. Fincher's like moving curtains and panic room.

Like we can get Fincher on the crowd here. You guys want James Cameron to fix Rocky. He invented a submarine and went to the deepest part of those. Right. Can he have some fans? Right. That's what he's. And then Garrett Pran, the Steady Cam guy,

not taking points in the picture of his age worse. What else do you have anything? I think Rocky's advice to that 12-year-old girl, you use bad words and maybe you end up becoming a whore. Marie, the little horror, who hung out at the Atomic Hoki Shots. It is a leap. Hang out of those guys. Use a couple bad words. I always want to have a kid to say that.

You're just to be like, oh, you use bad words and become a little whore. Well, and then the weird part about this is another what's age the worst is watching that girl in this movie. she then becomes the Rocky Balboa love interest. Remember? The girl he starts dating and, yeah, that's the girl he starts dating in Rocky Balboa. Are you serious? Yeah.

That's like how they reconnect. Yeah. I don't think I've seen Rocky Balboa or I can't remember it. Wait, wait, wait, Rocky Balboa is the one. That's the one with Antonio Tarver. It's not a very good movie. And Adrian's dead by this point? Adrian's dead.

And he starts hanging out with. Marie the Lord of Hor from the Atomic Hogi Shop. Yeah. Yes. take it back. Do do, do, do. Any other would stage the worst? Yeah, just Polly as the brother.

You just blew my fucking mind with that. Sorry. Oh, white duop groups. Yeah, it was a tough one. Ruffalo, Hannah Rubeneck Partridge, overacting award. It's good acting, but it's got a good Adrian freaking out on Polly. Yeah. I cook for you!

Yeah. Just like she goes up a level. So that's the thing with her. is she is a fantastic actress, obviously. But when she turns it up to that point, like when she turns it up in the Carlo scene, the Bafungu, the Bafungu, you. Oh, she's going to see a little whore!

In two. Marie, the little whore at the Atomic Hockey Shop. In two, she's a different character, so, like, it's, like, pretty solid the whole way through. She never has to, like, turn it up. But when she turns it up, sometimes it gets away from her. All right, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison for it.

How does take a word? Did you have one C.R? By far, the most interesting non-Big Three character in this movie, not Rocky, Adrian, or Apollo is by far Gatso. And I don't know how much of a, whether it makes it a better or worse sports movie,

but it's a much more interesting movie if Gatso tries to, like, assert his control over Rocky for the second. Try to get him to fix the fight? I just think Joe Spindell is awesome in this, obviously also in the Godfather. Or Godfather, too. and it would just be so cool

if he was like, everybody's putting money on you going down in the third. He gives him the 500 bucks and you think he wants. That's what you think he's starting to like maybe try to get in on him a little bit. And I was like, this would have been so cool. If we had two more gotso scenes

and two less poly scenes. Well, what's interesting about this is a great takes here. The original script, which was much darker, it had Rocky throwing the fight. Yeah. And Mickey was a racist.

those were the two things that they softened. In this movie, he's just racist against Italians. Right. Yeah. He's just a rasserble. Do you have a hot-est-take, man? I do not. I have one.

Actually, I mean, I've already done this hotest take. I mean, this is the beginning of the greatest love story of our time. Which was? Rocky and Apollo. Oh, yeah, you've did that. Yeah, Rocky goes on to... You almost close to riot in Philadelphia. I have...

I'm going old school with a super hot, hot take. Because I feel like we've gotten... We have rational hot takes now. I'm going hot takes down. We got away from our principals. Yeah. If this movie didn't exist, Philadelphia would basically be Delaware

with more attitude, a nicer art museum, and a couple of pro sports games. That's fucked up, though. Yeah. First of Delaware is a state. Hot take. Delaware is a state.

Delaware is an entire state. That's fine. They're probably about the same size. No, that's not true. But you think that if Rocky didn't exist? I think Rocky really made Philadelphia. That's my hot take.

Well, what made Boston? I don't know. When we fucking knocked out the British and created America. You fucking racist? You think I'm getting better than that. No,

it was an attempt to do a hottest but it is funny how much this movie means to Philadelphia. Yeah. That it almost became like another sports team. Philadelphia has actual real legendary Boston. 1980 they win the fucking NBA championship. I get it. I get it.

You had the flyers titles in the 70s? I get it. Yeah. But like Philly is... But you're just kind of between Washington and New York. The World Series and the 83 they won't. Like real, like legitimate boxing legends. Like no bullshit.

Like fucking real... Yes. The biggest boxing... You're looking at me. Look at him. From Philly. Look at Jem from the fucking town over there. He'd be Baltimore if it wasn't in this.

I'm just trying to bring the hottest take back to where it used to be. I'm into it. Casting what ifs. United Artists wanted a well-established star. Redford, who I think gets just mentioned for every movie ever. Ryan O'Neill and Bert Reynolds actually makes sense and James Conn makes sense. Like if I'm thinking about Hollywood back then. Ryan O'Neill is way too good looking.

Too wassy. Yeah. I'm just saying, I'm not saying, I'm not saying make sense in the movie. I'm saying make sense I could see the studios

being like, here's the list of actors we want in this Rocky movie. So I was going to save this for recasting couch. You could even call this a lukewarm take. What is this movie

if it's James Conn as Rocky and Harvey Kitell is Polly? Oh. Or John Cazale as Polly. Like if you have... I think James Con is too much baggage at this point

to be Rocky. What do you mean? Because we know from Godfather and a bunch of big movies. I think Rocky being an unknown really helps. I think it worked out great. Like, Bert Reynolds's the same thing.

You've been to too many things. Yeah, those guys are just too movie star-ish. Yeah. I needed somebody that you're almost rooting for him in real life too, as he's in the movie. This was interesting. Ken Norton was targeted for Apollo Creed,

pulled out, and they gave it to Carl Weathers. Stallone wanted Harvey Kitellas Pauley. probably a better movie Carrie Snodgrass I don't know who that is was chosen to play Adrian and they had a money dispute

and they auditioned a bunch of people including Susan Sarandon and Cher and Sarandon they really liked but they thought she was just too pretty to be Adrian Oh Carrie Snodgrass

was in Pill Rider I remember this is my favorite though they wanted Lee Strasberg for Mickey and he wanted too much money is this before 2 Godfather 2?

Right after oh so yeah because he didn't even want to, he wasn't even trying to act in movies, right? Yeah. No one knows who gave the order, but I heard it. I wasn't angry. Wasn't angry?

I said, this is the business we've chosen. There's not even a statue of the man. The street named after him. The Rosado brothers. And then, yeah, that's a percats. He's in the room. No, I have a partner. I know I have a partner.

I think I know the answer to this, but we're going to do the category in your marriage is because fans here, the Van Lathor Wordford did this movie need more black people? The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes,

wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts, and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus, trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not

be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Hello. Wow. Best that guy's coming up. I think we have to take one more break. Best that guy award. Joe Spinell is, I think he's not eligible. Oh, for real?

Yeah, he's Joe Spinell. He's a graduated that guy. I think it's Thayer David. Thayer David is Juergens, the manager or the promoter. He's in a bunch of cool stuff. I didn't know what his name was. As soon as I saw Joe Spinell, I was like, he's clearly the one, but I guess, okay. No, he's Joe Spinell.

Stan Shaw was another one, but I think he's Stan Shaw, who played Dipper. And then Frank Stallone is Franks Stallone. Yeah, the du-off guy. Now, do you think Frank was like, me and my boys have a do-up group and we'd love to get just 10-section?

I think Slice, like, can we get Frank in the movie? Yeah. Dionne Waiters is a hopping category. We got Marie the Teenage Delinquent. Tony Burton is Duke. Marie a little horror. Joe Spineau is Gazo Stu Nahan and Bill Baldwin

but my pick is buddy the driver You think Burgess is in too much of it? Yeah, he's in too much It's like the number three star in the movie I think it's Gazo's driver Yeah, it's he Hey Rock, did you get the number Or the license plate that hit your face?

He's the definition of the award That's right. Yeah for sure By the way, me and my dad used the license plate joke over and over again That was like, that's 20 years got out of that one. Recasting Couch I'm not touching it. You want to touch it?

No, I was just saying, like, I think that there is a different version of Polly that's, like, a little bit more... Likeable? Palatable? Yeah. And that... Jock Azama may feel like he's played the failed brother

a few too many times. Yeah. But... He's got a shit ton of charisma. Yeah, he would have definitely been, like, a more likable version of it. Yeah, like, what if he was, like, a skinny, kind of, like, nobody ever paid attention to the guy.

He was a raging alcoholic who tried to put the logos on the back of people's throat. That's smart. Half S. Center Research, we did some of these already. I like that Duke didn't have a name in the movie. They didn't name them until Rocky 2. The first two Staticam films were bound for glory and marathon man, so it was all around the same time.

They shot the ice skating date that way because they couldn't afford extras. Burgess had a fake cauliflower air and a tube stuck up his nostril to make his nose look fucked up. And then Bert Young did some weird stuff to get in. a character, like he covered himself with vermouth on his neck. He wore too many clothes so he was hot. He wanted to be, like, uncomfortable and angry during the filming. He takes a slug of whatever he's

drinking in the meat locker once. Yeah. Like his lower lip is all wet. Yeah. And he was like, ah, carlice-polly. This is like a disgusting roast beef character. Yeah. When they did the climactic fight, they didn't choreograph it and then realized they had to

and had to basically stop and go back. Oh, so they just went in there all vibes. Yeah, they were like, oh, you do this and I'll do this. Then they're like, wait, this is a disaster. It kind of casts weather's off of like a sparring session anyway. So I think they were probably like, we can just fight. Something else, you, like, Stallone actually cares a lot about boxing.

And obviously, everyone knows that. But as the movies get on, you can see that he becomes like a much more athletic, much better boxing. Yeah, I think that there's, you could make the argument that one of the things that's age the worst is like, they leave this conception of Rocky in this movie. And then he gets, I think, even more. He gets smarter and more physically talented as he gets older, which probably is at the case for the boxers.

This was a really good one. The poster, when he goes in, he sees the posters like, those aren't my trunks. That was an actual mistake they made, and they felt like they had to address it. So they added that scene so that they would be covered for people, be like, wow, the posters are like this? It's just like him being in the spectrum before the fight is one of my favorite little moments of the movie where he's just like, shit, this is too big for me.

Well, and then the spectrum doesn't become the spectrum for most of the fight because there was some sort of union issue in Philly. Imagine that. You think you're better than me, a union moment, and they had to film a lot of it in L.A. It doesn't look like the spectrum because you feel it in Rocky 2, you're like, oh, this is the spectrum. Now, Spectrum is a cool, cool place. Is it because of the Rocky movies that I have such a 70, not 70s, I wasn't around, but an 80s. and early life connection to the spectrum when I didn't care about Philly's...

I mean, I think probably also... Dave Zinkoff and Dr. Jay. And it was Barkley. Yeah. Julius Irving. Yeah. It had a great logo. The spectrum is cool. Yeah. I also like with the spectrum

and I don't know because it was a hockey basketball arena like all these other ones. Don't try to crawl back into Philly's favor. Listen, I'm loyal to the hottest take. We're supposed to throw hot takes around. There was something about the spectrum, the layout of it,

where the fans seemed a little closer. I don't know how they did it. And the way was good. and the fans, It just felt like you were very on top of things. They were the first, I felt like 70s arena to move people closer. Because if you look at some of the stuff, like I noticed this when we were doing the Celtic Stock. Some of the, even the early 70s, the court side seats, they're like 30 feet off the court.

Yeah. And then the spectrum was like, let's put everybody close. But if you watch like the Kentucky Duke highlights from the later shot game, like people are like so close. Like they're so up on the game. Yeah, it's cool. Last thing. Gonna fly now. How high do you think it got on the Billboard Hot 100?

list. I'm going to go top 10. Yeah, seven. How about one? Yeah. Oh, wow. I was going to say, number one. I don't know if you're going to do my flex category, but it was going to be.

Yours is coming. Okay. Isn't it coming? I think I deleted it. Damn. No. We'll do it now. Okay.

My okay motherfucker moment when the movie, wait, let me redo that. My okay, motherfucker. Moment when the movie jumps up a notch is when going to fly now, drops like 90 minutes in. Because you're really like, all right, man, this is. kind of a sleepy boxing movie, man. And then it's like, da, da, da, da, da, da. You just, it really, it gets the adrenaline going. He's racing the boat and Sierra's like, you know who they're looking at?

They're looking at us. LAPD! Apex Mountain, Stallone. I think we've litigated this 10 other times. I think his Apex Mountain was that Rocky 3, Rambo. Yeah. 82. Yes.

Yeah. Is this Apex Mountain for a woman taking her glasses off? and getting that much hotter. Oh, man. Wow. Van's going through all his porn searches now. Oh, no, it's easy. I can go one time Lisa and anyway.

But, wow, is it? It would have to be. I've tried to think of like... It's a big step up. Also, the glasses are really angry. I mean, there's like, oh, she's all that. But this one would have to be bigger than those. But there's another one...

It's not like... I don't actually... Diversely... When she takes her glasses off, I'm not like, whoa, Adriette's hot. But I'm just, it is a classic kind of like, she takes them off and it's like now all of a sudden. What a good question. I'm trying to think there's one that I'm missing.

And people are going to, it's one I'm missing where the guy takes it off and then just this woman screams. But I can't remember that this is probably the most famous though. Probably starts the whole deal. Well, so the glasses are so ugly. Right. They're like out of like 1925. They're like pharmacy glasses or whatever. Talia Shire, I'm going to say yes for her too.

I have yes for her for sure. Yeah. And she got a couple of projects out of this. but none of them made it. Interesting career. Yeah. Like all big, doesn't have much of a presence other than,

but like every single movie she's in is like, kind of like a hitter. I want to take care of you now, Michael. Jason Schwarzenen tells us a really funny story about like for most of the beginning of his life, people calling his mom Adrian. And I forgot that's his mom. Yeah.

And like he's just like, why are they calling you Adrian? And she would just play, yeah, they're confused. They don't understand. And then like he starts to realize, like a hundred people can't be wrong when they're like, hey Adrian,

yo, Joe Adrian! He finally gets it, yeah. Apex Mountain for shy girlfriends, CR? It might be. Yeah, it might be. I was also going to ask if this Apex Mountain for withholding sex while training and or competing in sports,

is it this or Bull Durham? Mm, Bull Durham. Because I think he's still having sex. Yeah. Because you know what? Well, you think Rock is still having sex? I think he woke up a beast with Adrian. I think there's a lot of time

but thinking in the fish store. Yeah, Van Nose. I'm being for real. Like, look, she climbed, there was a before and she climbs on them one time and she's doing a little, she's pecking at him. He's can't do it. Yeah, because he's like, I, you know, I'm trying to save all my juices. Yeah, yeah.

Women weaken the legs, though, is a classic, classic line. Yeah, yeah. Classic line. Well, what's the phenomenon behind that? Because you have more testosterone if you haven't shot a load in a while. Is that what we're supposed to think? I don't think. sports science was really

did they ever cover this with John Brancis? Dog, I swear. Did they try this with Embed? Just like, no, not November. See if your knee swelling goes down. HBO Boxes. Who is now out for the season, by the way. Fuck off.

No. Breaking news, son of Friday. I'm sorry, Joanne. I was just kidding. Wow. Oh, God. I was going to say maybe they'd try that with Anthony Edwards. Zion

John Avelton Even though he won the Oscar for this You'd make a case It's Karate Kid Yeah Because then that's he's got Rocky and Karate Kid Definitely made more Um

Avleton you think Whatever happened So did Ableton fall out with Stallone How come he couldn't They wouldn't I don't think he was a giant boxing fan Well Stallone wanted to direct the second one himself He wanted to do the written and directed

By Sylvester Stallone move Philadelphia Apex Mountain, Sierra? I'll let you decide. You know, I think the founding of our nation, probably 1776 is a pretty big one. Solid. For some. And then...

Not everybody was in the same. The 83-6thor's title? Beating the Pats in 18. This is up there, though. Ending the Mahomes dynasty? Yeah, I think that this, if you were carving a Mount Rushmore of Philadelphia, they'd put Rocky with his hands in the air on it.

one of the most notable images of Philadelphia. Bert Young. Yeah. What did Bert Young ever... It's probably Rocky Three when this character becomes more tolerable, at least somewhat. Best Bert Young, though, is back to school with Rodney Dangerfield. Oh, yeah, when he plays the driver's best muscle. It's amazing, amazing performance, Pam.

We haven't done back to school, right? No, it's on the list. Spider Rico, definitely. Ice skating dates? Was there a better ice skating date? There is an ice skating day in Happy Gilmore. That's amazing. Oh, that's a good one.

You're right. Cutting edge is that the figure skating dating? Topic. Yeah. Rocky movies, no. Boxing movies? Boxing movies was the last one I had. So, give me,

how are you defining this? Because a couple years later, Raging Bull comes out. Like, you know, I think... Maybe it's rewatchable boxing movies. Fine. I don't know. Aesthetically, I think...

I think Raging Bull is a better film. Raging Bull is better than this movie, but this movie is much more, I think, culturally significant than Raging Bull. If you're going to a Desert Island, do you take Raging Bull or Rocky? You take Raging Bull. I would take Raging Bull.

Really? Yes. Interesting. Yeah. Raging Bull is a lot more interesting to watch than Rocky is. Wow. Raging Bull is so funny to me, man. It's just a hilarious movie.

It's like, it's just, why'd you fuck them? She just said she didn't do it. She just said she didn't do it. Why are you asking her? She just said she didn't do it. And why don't always, Reggie Bull follows a little bit of rocking.

You get Pesci, kind of playing the Bird Young, Moriarty's the Adrian, you know. Cruz or Hanks? Cruz. I went with Cruz. I think it's Chris.

I guess it's Cruz. Yeah. I can't buy Hanks as a heavyweight boxing challenger. You can buy Tom Cruise as a heavyweight boxing challenger? I think he would do like six months of prep for it. He would gain all the weight and then we'll lose the weight during the five weeks of filming.

I'm going to say Hanks, but you guys obviously win this democracy. Cruz? I go with Cruz. Scorsese or Spielberg. Is this the perfect movie if they co-directed? Huh. The inspirational side of Spielberg, the gritty side of Scorsese. Yeah.

Scorsese handles all the Rocky, Pauli type of, but then the bigger step back. Can you imagine if Spielberg got his hand? on like the last fight and like... I think it's Scorsese. I mean, I have a Scorsese. I mean, I have a co-director situation. He directs Raging Bull a few years later. I mean, the opera entrance into the ring is...

This is becoming one of my favorite categories. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Polly. Polly. I got Polly. Or Gatsos driver. How about Juergens? Jurgens, maybe. Yeah.

Yeah. Gatsos driver? Hey, Rock. Take her to the zoo. picking nets so Rocky just waltzes into the spectrum one day before the fight to look around let him in

yeah he's on a fight he's on a fight card hey I'm Rocky Balboa I'm fighting here tomorrow goes all the way down to the spectrum just to go look at the things hanging down it's a little weird no it's not weird at all you could go in there and fuck around with the ring to make sure that the ring is nobody's in there they're not nobody's sitting up anything it's just completely empty

This is my biggest one. Five weeks. Plenty of time to prepare to fight the heavyweight champion of the world. I don't feel like 40 guys are turning that fight down. They make it seem like,

oh, not enough time. Nobody's going to take it. It's like, oh, I got the feeling it is. So many people are taking that. But Apollo picks Rocky for the specific story, right? No, he does that only

because everybody keeps turning the fight down. Oh, okay. I was like, oh, he's in England. It's like he can get back from England. I just watch McColley take a fight in 10 hours. And they actually say that. the movie. They go, this guy that goes, oh, he moved to California, he gained 50 pounds.

So what? Bring on it and make the fight. I actually got the feeling that no one actually wanted to fight creed. Possibly. But five weeks is more than enough. For $150,000 in 1976. Andrew Ruiz Jr. took the fight on basically that much time in real boxing, people take it.

Yeah. The string trick of putting string around your ankles, keep your balance, that seems like bullshit. Is that mixed primary contribution aside from the cut man? Like, what else does Mick teach him? This is something that I thought. He gives him a string around his feet.

I'm willing to have the combo. Apollo is a much better trainer than Mickey is. Yeah. Apollo is way better. Apollo actually transforms Rocky. He changes Rocky. Apollo is a much better trainer than Mickey is. Woman weakened legs.

We learn that. Go to the body. You need better balance. That's three things. Stop smoking. Yeah. Okay. Rock's in a much better spot five weeks later than he was in the start.

And I got a guy who's going to open up your eyeball in the 15-3. Yeah, got a great cut guy with a razor blade. Any other nitpicks for you guys? There's that scene where Van talked about being quite moved by Rocky, you know, doing where were you 10 years ago seen with Mick. And the blocking of that scene is kind of weird, but it's like, you know, the doors are closing and opening and mixed all the way down that hallway and almost outside and he still is hearing this speech that Rocky's giving,

for the most part, at like, regular speaking voice. I can't hear my wife in the other room if the water is on, so there's no fucking way that Mick can hear this monologue halfway down the stairs. Yeah, he's been punched in the head seven thousand times in his life. Yeah. There's no way. He's like, what? My need to pick is somebody would have gotten to Adrian before this.

There's just no way. Oh. In the neighborhood, someone would have gotten to, tour before. A fish store customer? Fish store customer? Coming in and buy some piranha? Somebody coming in there to buy the dog or something like that. Somebody would have gotten to her before this. There's a question. So, Rocky and Paul are best friends.

And Rocky's like 29, 30? 30, yeah. The first time it occurred to him to make a run at the fish store girl? Well, I think in the movie it seems like he's been going in a lot and making his like, I make a joke in the morning and a joke in the afternoon, right? And unfortunately, she can't communicate. Yeah. Until she takes her glasses off.

She's just like, let's smash. I mean, she gets it. She really enjoyed it. She changes. She starts dressing different. The dick starts making her dress different. Like, she starts, I'm telling you, she totally changes her style. She's not spending money that he hasn't made yet.

She's like, I got a red coat. You better get that ring. That would have been a better hotest take for me. Here's why virginity is overrated. Whoa. sequel prequel prestige TV on black castor untouchable they've done pretty much all of those versions

they haven't done a TV adaptation of this universe yet oh you know what they were going to right wasn't there I don't say I feel like we're good coming with the crete in the creed universe no am I making this up no I mean I think because this we're done with Rocky let's stop Amazon in the MGM purchase and I think that they were going to do

like the usual make it a universe kind of thing. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Dorisberg, Sam Jackson, Nell,

Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, long legs, Wilford Brimley

in the firm. And I want to kind of add Gatsos driver to this going forward. Take her to zoo. The movie is better with Gatsos driver. I was going to say,

oh, Mike, you don't just have to take Adrian to the zoo. She likes the ice rink too. I miss Collinsworth. Yeah. It's done like too much for him.

Tony Romo. I just got a hopper step, Jim. She loves having sex, Jim. She's a different lady. She's talking about it. This is a lady who loves exotic fish and sex with Rocky Balbo, Jim. It's a sexual awakening, Jim. You don't think she's never felt before, Jim.

Just won't ask her. Who gets it? I got Stallone for screenplay. Okay. I think that's fair. And this year, you know? Yeah. Probably in answerable questions.

Do women weak in legs, Van? Did we get a decision? I was about to say, HBO did a whole thing. It was called Sex and the Sweet Science. Yeah. Where they did like HBO boxing did it back in the day. It might be Showtime boxing.

Was this like set in Vegas and the Bunny Ranch or whatever that show was? So they merged the two shows? Right now. It was called Cat House. but they talked about it and they got science guys together and there's no scientific proof to it. Women do not, in fact, weak and length.

What were the odds on Fandall heading into this fight? No, man. I don't think it would go higher than minus 2000, but I think Crete is minus 2,000. So what were the Tyson-Buster Douglas odds? Is it like 40 to 1? Yeah, that was like 30 to 1.

That was the last time they were that high. So maybe third do you want to hear. The over under for rounds, I think is two and a half. Two and a half, yeah, for sure. And people are banging the under. Now, what happens? This is where Gatsu gets involved. Yeah.

This is where Gatsu gets involved. You go out there, you can acquit yourself decently. You can the last two rounds and then you've got to go down. Yeah. What happens to the live odds once Apollo goes down in the first round? I think after the second round, it's just hard. It's like Apollo is now like minus 400. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, there's like a lot of rocky money. What piece of memorabilization? would you want or not want from this movie? I gotta tell you, not a lot. There's not a lot of showering going on in this movie. So I don't really know what I would walk away with. I guess... The gloves would be cool from the fight.

Or Rocky's gloves, his little... Or his little training gloves? The one where he's fucking bleeding all over them from punching the meat. I really like the Italian stalin gray sweatshirt he wears for three months straight, but I can't imagine it smells awesome. Fumicate it.

Yeah. I was looking at some of the Mickey, like the training camp like pullovers they have and stuff like that. I think some of the posters outside of the gym would be cool. Yeah, there's a poster in Juergens' office that I really liked. Maybe the photo of Mickey when he was a younger fighter, that's all messed up. That's pretty cool.

It would be cool if you started having like every day me and Sean and Mao and Van had to put our shit in lockers and then every once in a while we'd come in. It's on Skid Row. Put our shit on Skid Row. He did like last week's podcast. Adrian's Joy of Sexbook? Maybe that could be it. Adrian's Kamasutra? She's like chapter 5.

Adrian's like, how about some tantric? Hey, Rod. Adrian, weaken the legs. Rock, lie this way. Yeah. The Coach Finstack Award for Best Life Lesson. Don't let anyone tell you you're a bum. Be a thinker, not a stinker.

Oh. Mine was you'd be happier if you were just dumber. Rock is a dumb happy care. Have you given up calling Ryan? Yeah, we went 0 for 5. It's like it's just, he doesn't answer. He lets it ring and then calls back 10 minutes later, guy. It's fucking.

He's a full-time screener, even with people he knows. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Like, you call Rosillo and he- We could give him the heads up. And then he calls back, it's unbelievable. That wasn't the idea. It's always like he's always lived away. I would like to know what he thinks of this.

Yeah. Best double feature choice. Would you go Rocky 2 or something else? I go Raging Bowl. Oh. I went Saturday Night Fever. Oh, I like it. This movie made me want to watch Saturday Night Fever for some reason.

What about you? Yeah, what's yours? Rocky 2. I think you have to go right from here into the second one. And then just make sure you skip over about 40 minutes when you drink goes in a coma. So does the audience. When we do Rocky 2 rewatchable, it's going to be about 50 minutes.

It's my least. favorite one. But the last 25 minutes are great. When do you stop counting Rocky movies? Four? Yeah. Well, you know what? I like Rocky Five. See, Van likes five. Okay. Rocky Five is the one with Tommy Morrison? Tommy Morrison. I like Rocky Five.

It was five and then Balboa? I despise five, but I will admit that the last like 30 minutes of five is pretty good. I got to go see Rocky Balboa to see if Marie's in this fucking thing. That's the whole, it's a huge part of the movie. I've seen the movie before. I don't think that I connected that that was the character from the first movie.

So who won the movie? Obviously, Slice Stallone. Here's my question. Have we ever had somebody win a movie harder than this? I feel like this might be the number one who won the movie ever. We would have said Tarantino, but Stallone, like, as a writer and a star and then a 50, it has to be Stallone. Right. In fact, I can't, I would say we could rename it, the Stallone who won the movie award, but like no one's ever really done this.

We've only seen, at least since I started following movies, which is right around when this movie came out, there's only been a couple of rags to riches stories like this with stars. There's also not that even many times where people have successfully, like, I'm like stars born, like, where people are like, I'm directing this shit or I'm writing it, and I'm starring in it and like I'm going to learn to do something like saying or box. That's the problem. They're not going to let you do this very often.

You're going to have to have such a serendipitous set of circumstances for them to let you write it, star in it, when you're not bankable at all. Tarantino is one, but he had true romance before, so he at least had a foot in the door. Chas Palmy Terry kind of did this. Chas Palmyterry is the same. You're talking about for Pope?

Yeah, for Pope. Oh, I mean, he had reservoir dogs too. That's what I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had Lawrence with him and all of that. He had a foot in the door. Julia Roberts is another one, but she had steel magnolias and she was a mystic pizza.

She was around and I knew who it was. This was just for somebody to come out of nowhere and immediately become an A plus list star like this? I'm trying to think. I can't. You go Pacino and the Godfather, maybe, but he'd even done Panic and Needle Park

and stuff. He was a big deal. Yeah, I can't. Certainly not in the last 30 years. It's nowhere near the accomplishment. And even he, I was going to say Orson Welles doing like Citizen Kane, but he was already considered a boy genius coming out of like radio plays and his theater company. Like, he'd already done War of the Worlds

on radio. When you say Charles Holmes on Midnight Boys? That's a big one. Hey, man, respect. Respect the Pew-Pew. It's Pew-Pew. We're going to start fucking over your shit, watch. Yeah.

Like, we start fucking over your shit. That's what you're going to take it seriously. Where do the Pew-Pew come from? Laser guns. I was like, yeah, we're the Mid-Night Boys. We're like gunslingers. We're instant reaction. So we just shoot from the hip.

Poo-Pew. Maybe we'll do. beep for us. Okay. For the rewatchables? Beed. See our C.R.

Bipee. All right, that's it. So now we've done three Rockies. Yeah. The only one, and we've done creed.

So we've actually I guess done four Rockies. Creed three, four, and one. Because people always asked why we

didn't do Rocky yet, even though we'd done three and four. I actually think that we handled it perfectly. Three, four.

One is the prequel. And kind of end with two, which is the least rewatchable of the four. Did you see Cree three? I did.

Thoughts? I thought Majors was really good. He's really good and everything. He was really good. And I think I liked it more than I like Creed 2. I can't remember Creed 2. Creed 2 was with the Russian. Yeah.

I don't even remember. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it's time for the franchise now that we're at 50 years. What we need. It's funny that outlived CR. Because you're not 50. Nope.

So this franchise is older than you are. Two years before I was born. Yeah. But, or they shot it two years before I was born. I was going to say that what they need to do is get back to what makes this story so meaningful is that it's a guy out of nowhere. And you can't do that if it's like it's a Polkreid son. Yeah. I mean, there is a move left that the Shields movie, which I really liked.

But there's a female rocky angle that they could do. They wanted to flip it. Basically do all the same stuff. have it be and have Polly be the sister but nobody wants that like just come up with your own movie we're probably too cynical for Rocky now

we've seen we we want to me like looking at it like this you're just going to ask so many questions like why didn't he fight amateurs like whatever blah blah blah like a guy with 21 losses becoming like it's just could you do a Rocky

that was basically UFC I guess that's warrior yeah I mean but even with I mean you could UFC's sitting there. It's weird. There just hasn't been enough UFC movie content at a high level. Warriors, by far the best one. But, yeah, I guess you can do Rocky

UFC. But, I mean, yeah, I guess you could. I don't know if the UFC guys... Or you make this more of an erotic thriller with Adrian's. It's... It's built around Adrian's Awakening. That's the movie. That's it. Is that what you would call it? Adrian's Awakening. A new

way to look at the Rocky series. I got it. A different movie where what's the mafia guy named Gato? Yeah. Where he actually hires Adrian to weaken Rocky's legs. Oh, so that it. So they're trying to have, or maybe not him, maybe Apollo hires Adrian.

Her awakening is because Rocky needs his legs weakened in the movie. That's the second one. There's a brief twinkle in her eye when Clubber Lang is calling her out in Rocky 3. Oh, she liked it. You could see for one second, she's like, oh. She's like, maybe I'm a dark chart. Clubber. She's like, she like, she's like, she's like, she like, she like she laps off.

I thought only white guy saying do what. I guess it turns out. I've been waiting for Clever to look my way. Yeah. She liked it. Rocky, so your rankings are still 3, 4, 1, 2 or 3142? 3.142 for you? 3142.

What do you have, Van? I go 3.4. one, five, two. Five over two. I don't like two. I don't like two. Two is my least watched Rocky movie. But it's a really fun coming in 30 minutes left.

I like that they're like, we got to rush it and do this. Like we got to make it. This movie starts the second, the first one ends. To me, it's the least original of the Rocky movies. Even five is original because Rocky is now falling off of his perch. Yeah. Four is original Cold War stuff. three is the Rocky

the leap of the Rocky franchise two is like a continuation of one and one is just superior I saw Rocky tune in the theater with my best friend crowd standing non-whites? Of course like that's the only time I've ever seen in the movie theater

people going fucking crazy like it was like they were at like a fucking Patriots man it was nuts in Boston they probably run out in harassment Jesus come on they probably run out hey, Southie, motherfucker. We show you

mulean something. I knew I shouldn't have brought up that story. Well, we won't invite you on the Rocky Tupon. Shut on to Dedham. But when we do Adrian's Awakening, you're there. I'm there, of course. Of course. Fancy are. Great to see you. Thanks to Jack Sanders as well. Shout out to Craig Horlebeck, who wasn't there this time around for us, but we got the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well.

So you can check us out there. See you next week. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's, like low prices in every aisle. When you download the Ralph's app, you can clip and save more with digital coupons every week. Plus, you can earn fuel points to save up to $1 per gallon at the pump. At Ralph's, you can enjoy more ways to save and more rewards every time you shop. So it's always easy to save big every day with savings and rewards. Ralph's SoCal for over 150 years. Savings may vary by state.

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