The Rewatchables - ‘Ronin’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan never walk into a place they don’t know how to walk out of after they rewatch the 1998 action thriller ‘Ronin,’ starring Robert De Niro, Jean Reno, and Natascha McElhone. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The rewatchables coming up next. All good things come to those who wait. Target is underway. We're going to work. We're moving. Come on, let's go. You don't want to go on there. Get out of here.

Walk away. Walk away. Let's go! How did you know it was in ambush? That's the first thing they teach you. Who told you? I don't remember. I was a second big teacher.

We've made a good plan, and we're going to stick with it. Does this girl work for? Are you afraid? Of course I'm afraid. Do you think I'm reluctant because I'm happy? Who are our employers? I'm not under any obligation to let you know. If you are not, then the price has got to go up.

It's not going to happen. Robert De Niro. I won't hurt you. Ronin. You worried about seven of your own skit? Yeah, I am. It covers my body. Oh, Chris Ryan.

every once in a while we do one for us. We open it up to the Twitterati this week. I really wanted to do Kiss of Death because it was the 25th anniversary. Unfortunately, I think you and I are the only two that liked this movie. So we threw out there, Kiss of Death, Manhunter, cruising without Pacino, which is just we're just going to have to audible and make that happen at some point in summer. I wore my jean jacket for cruising, man. I was ready.

And then Ronan, and as soon as I suggested Ronan to you, you said, Oh, Ronan's winning. Why do you love this movie? Because it's actually a rewatchable for the reason for the reason you wouldn't think it would be. Everybody would say, oh, Ronan, great car chases, great, great stunts, great driving. I actually go back to this movie for the dialogue over and over and over again, just to live in the space between the lines and in the lines of this, I think we can argue probably certainly David Mamet dialogue. Oh, yeah, no question. I like movies that start with the super long explanation of what a ronan is that really doesn't have a lot to do with the movie. There's some Japanese samurai.

It starts to be it. It says, in feudal Japan, the warrior class of samurai were sworn to protect their lords with their lives. It keeps going. And then it's like these masterless warriors were no longer referred to as samurai. They were known. They were called Ronan. And then it just has nothing to do with anything. You know, they did that with, they did that with Sicario, where in the trailer, it was like a couple minutes of the trailer and then it's like, in Mexico, Sicario means hit man.

And it's like, I didn't need Google translate for that. I didn't think that Sicario meant like my little pony. Right, right. This movie comes out in 1998 and there's a whole DVD history we'll go into in a second. But how much do you think movies in the 2000, specifically the born movies, some of the fast five, car chases and things like that. And just kind of that, the way this movie moves, how much do you think was stolen over the next 22 years from this movie or am I overthinking it? Well, I definitely think that Bourne does. I think that there's parts of John Wick does,

especially in the idea of trying to keep it as realistic as possible, but keeping your actors in the frame and not using stunt people when possible. There are some hilarious De Niro stunt work in this movie where it's quite clearly De Niro leaping and a different man falling. What about what he drives? It looks like he is wearing like a bomb vest or something. They did do takes of De Niro in the car. They had the whole setup where they had Formula One drivers driving the cars, but on the other side while the actor was in the left side or on the right side.

So they did some really inventive stuff. And I think the thing that people really stole from this movie, especially the born movies, is the sense of realism with being in a location and being in a place and be like, that's Robert De Niro on the Riviera in Nice. Like, there's no question about it. There's no green screen. There's no, he's in the mix. And it makes the movie feel so much more real.

Agree. And you know another movie? It's not just the born movies and some of these other ones, but the town. When they have that big bag, that they rob, the bank and they're in there in there in the north end trying to get over the bridge back to charlestown and they're going through all those streets it's basically a ronin scene and i think i i would love to know how many people because french connection and bullet were the first two great car chase movies i don't know french connection was early 70s i don't really know what was the next great car chase

thing or why we got away from that i remember blown away with uh tommy lee jones of Jeff Bridges, that ended with a whole car chase scene in Boston, where they're just going downhill forever. And it's like, there's no part of Boston where you can go downhill for more than four blocks. We really just blown away on the flawed rewatchables. Oh, it's so flawed. The accents, just everything. But I think Hollywood had just kind of faded away from the, let's make this as realistic as possible thing. And the irony of Frankenheimer, who was basically done at this point. We'll go into that in a second. I wanted to talk about how this was the first great DVD.

Okay. And I did a lot of research on this to try to figure out if what I remembered in my head and how I felt at the time was backed up by anything. So do you know when the first DVD players were released in the U.S.? 92? No. March 31st, 1997. Oh, wow. So that backed up what I had in my head because I remember.

That spring, that summer, I was bartending. I started my website and I decided to splurge on like a DVD player sound system thing. It was like I'm used as cash I have. What was like the price point on that? So I had to get the little microphone stands, the DVD is probably like, I don't know, 500 bucks maybe. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. Or maybe I don't know, somewhere in the three to 500, but it was a lot for me back then. Can you imagine what we could have done with our lives if we hadn't spent that money on like stereo systems? Oh my God. Or if I told you that in like 30 years your stereo system is just going to be your phone. Well, here's the other thing. There were no DVDs.

Yeah. So the DVD players are released in the U.S. And I actually looked this up. And this is the list. And it's accurate because I remember being bummed out that this was this. These are the first movies ever released on DVD in America. A Time to Kill. Blade Runner.

Eraser. Goodfellas, which was two, which was. was you had to flip the disc halfway through. It's a train wreck. You're getting into it. It's like, all right, now stand up and flip the disc. Interview of the vampire, the road warrior, seven, the bird cage, bridges of Madison County, the fugitive, the mask, the Wizard of Oz, Twister, Unforgiven, Woodstock.

The fugitive was the first great DVD I ever had because it had the train scene. And we talked about this when we did the rewatchables. when the train crashes and the train goes from one side of the screen to the other. That was the first time I'd ever been in my house watching that train go. Ronan was the first one that I remember when it came out in DVD, it being a thing. And the reason is simple. It's the way Frankenheimer, he shot the film. So he does wide angle lenses.

I don't understand half of this, but he's using 18 to 35 millimeter. he's in Super 35 format. He's shooting it wider so you can see more. And depth of field. Yeah. Right. Less primary colors, all this stuff. So they released the DVD in February 99, and it's a two-disc DVD, and it has the

widescreen and it has pain and scan. And one of the reasons this movie, I feel like didn't do as well as it should have been cable is it, it's pain and scan and cable, and it sucked. It's on a square TV. You lose like half the movie, basically. but the widescreen of this that Dolby Digital 5.1 sound it had an alternative ending

which we'll get into later and had an audio commentary from Frankenheimer and it's fucking awesome. It's awesome and I remember getting this I didn't have a lot going on in early 1999 I remember getting this DVD and being like this is the future. This is everything I want from a DVD

I get to hear from the director I get an alternate ending I didn't know existed. I have these awesome fucking car chases and widescreen and I feel like this was when everything changed. Now, you could say laser disc,

people had that. I didn't have a laser disc. So this was the first time from a home experience. When do you remember the first time you were like, oh shit, this is the future with a DVD? Oh, man, that's a really good question.

I mean, I think I remember watching some of those early Fincher movies that had commentaries. And Fincher is notorious for having these incredible director commentaries. Oh, also, I can't remember when it came out, but the Ben Affleck commentary on Armageddon is really good.

So I remember starting to, when I, like, when I was like in and out of film school in the mid-90s and then like, but still a really big movie fan, I remember starting to buy DVDs just for the director's commentary sometime in like early 2000s. I remember Goodwill Hunting was another one. I remember that was the first director's commentary. I was like, man, these guys are going to realize this was a mistake down the road.

Just turn the mic's out. I remember Affleck just talk, Ben Affleck talking about Casey's genius in these different scenes where he's like really not doing a lot. This is Casey's genius right here. It's like, settle down, Ben Affleck. But I remember the Boogie Nights DVD, which we still haven't done as a rewatchable. I feel like that might be a three-part episode. But I remember that DVD. Yeah.

That was another like transformative moment where it had a whole bunch of deleted scenes. and scenes that in a lot of ways you're going, why wasn't this in the movie? There's whole character arcs that you're going down. Like I remember Becky Barnett and her husband.

There's a whole like domestic violence subplot. By about 2001, I think we had figured out the DVD thing. And people were like, oh, loaded with extra things, deleted scenes, have commentaries. But I swear Ronan was the first one. And it was a thing in the movie community. And it's also a big deal because Ronan,

obviously not a cheap movie to make. Didn't do that well at the box office relative to like what it, what it cost and maybe what people's expectations were. But the DVD rewatchable and the second life in home entertainment, there were so many movies like that where people would start to be really into these flicks that had rewatchable scenes that they could just kind of put on in the background when they had their buddies over. And then they would get stoned and be like, oh, we got to listen to Fincher do seven

or we got to listen to. That was me. Yeah, right. The other thing was, and this sounds stupid now, it's so simple, but, you know, the VHS era, you're fast forwarding and rewinding. And either you're stopping the tape and just rewinding backwards and then trying to catch it at the spot you wanted, or you're just fast forwarding or rewining.

And then DVDs, a movie like Ronan, you're like, I'm just going to watch the Ronan car chases again. I'm just going to bang those out. You'd be like, all right, fast forward to scene. here's the first car chase. It's all stuff we take for granted now. But in 99, it was a big deal, especially if you really love movies

and it was this whole new universe opening up where in the old days you had just had to go to the movie theater to have the best experience, that was it. It was never going to be as good of an experience at home as it was in the theater. It starts to really shift in 99. The other thing, I do feel like, I do feel like this movie got lost in the shuffle.

a little bit in 98. And I don't know what your theories are. I think there was a little De Niro fatigue. He was cranking out a lot of movies. We'll go over his IMDB in a second. It's also an awesome year for movies. You had big-ass movies like Armageddon, saving Private Ryan, Godzilla, which wasn't a great movie, but it was huge.

There's Something About Mary. Deep Impact, Lethal Weapon 4, Truman Show, You've Got Mail, Enemy of the State, Rush Hour, the water boy like Sandler's got a couple it just goes on and on the wedding singer Everest came out

Blade the sea snake eyes there's just a lot and I think this movie just got lost and this movie is such a throwback this movie feels like it should be made in 1976 1996

19998 you know so it's a hard sell for people I remember going to see it and just being like I don't feel like I've ever seen a movie like this in the theater like I've seen French Connection and Bullet

at home, but I had never really seen such a hard-boiled old-school movie because it's not like heat where it feels like it's very contemporary and everything is like these big, the Moby song playing. There's none of that in heat. It's like even the score is 1970s crime thriller. U.S. Marshals came out in 98. Where do you stand in that movie? I saw U.S. Marshals in France when I was in Europe. and I stand by it. I stand by the decision and I stand by Robert Downey Jr.'s

performance in that movie. We also had Slidy Doors, Wild Things, Halloween H-2O, Pleasantville. Man, there's just a murderer's row. Primary Callers came out this year. You're going down there on.

Species 2. This was when it turned for Robin Williams, too. Species 2. Patch Adams and when dreams may come in the same year. So Ronan was the 44th biggest movie of the year.

It actually made $70 million. So it didn't lose money. It had $55 million budget. But Frankenheimer, at that point, Hollywood had given up on him, I think. He was in the TV movie stage of his career. And he's somebody that I certainly grew up with the fumes of Frankenheimer, where he's Birdman to Alcatraz, 62, the Manchurian candidate of Classic, 62. Seven days of May, the train, seconds, Grand Prix, another.

60s, action classic. French Connection 2, 75. Black Sunday, 77. And Black Sunday is a movie I vaguely remember as a kid because the ads. And it was like, they're going to blow up the Super Bowl. It's kind of hard to believe that they even, the NFL agreed to let them shoot movie scenes at a Super Bowl where the climax is blowing up the Super Bowl. Yes, Pete Rose. I was like, sure, they're paying us an extra million.

Al Davis just like Ritz his head up like Yeah. But then it just tails off. And I think he had some real problems. In his Wikipedia, they talk about he made the movie The Challenge with Scott Glenn

and you and Sean's guy. To Sherim Buffune. Yeah. In 81, he goes to Japan and he told somebody that his drinking became so severe that he was actually drinking on the set, which he'd never done before.

And as a result, he entered rehab. return to America. So then he goes into this whole other phase of his career. And I think he was thought of a little bit as a wasted talent. His previous movie in 96 was Island of Dr. Moreau, which is one of the all-time shit shows. That could be a one for us.

I'm surprised that didn't kill him, honestly. It might have. It almost killed us watching it. I do feel like that shouldn't be the flawed rewatchables. That should just be a what the fuck happened. This is one of the all- time disasters we've ever had rewatchables. So he's making that.

His career's over. And then he like summons back. Yeah. For Ronan. It's like if you had said after Island of Dr. Moreau, this guy's going to do Ronan. It seemed inconceivable. Island of Dr. Moreau is one of the all time though, like perfect storms of

absolute maniacs on a set though. So I think that like. Including him probably. And at some point he gets, he quitter. got fired from Moreau anyway, right? Or did he finish the movie and the other guy had gotten fired? I can't remember the sequence, but I do remember, and it set came in the research that he hated Val Kilmer so much that when Val Kilmer wrapped his last scene, Frankenheimer

was like, now get this asshole off my set. It just like totally basically got rid of him. You know it really says something if he said that about Kilmer and not Brando. Oh, my God. So the other thing about this movie, David Mamet, is involved. Yeah. And at one point,

Frankenheimer is like, it's, it's Mamet's script. And then Frankenheimer got kind of raked over the coals for saying that in public. It was story by J.D. Zulk. Frankenheimer is like,

the credit should read, story by J.D. Zoke, screenplay by David Mamet. And he said, we didn't shoot a line of Zulk script. So Mamet was so upset that it just worked out the way it did, that he actually uses a pseudonym.

Richard Weiss. What would your pseudonym be in a movie, Chris? Bill Simmons. I'd be Sil Bimmons. I would do just a variation of what my name was. But you can feel his dialogue in this movie. And he was specifically brought in to beef up the De Niro character because I think once they realized.

This is an awesome coming at the tail end of a really awesome mammet in Hollywood run. Where he's doing a bunch of, like he's adapting some of his own work. So there's like Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. He directs homicide in this decade. He writes Hoffa for Jack Nicholson and Danny DeVito. He does punch up work on other movies. He works on Wag the Dog, which didn't go well, or at least the credit situation didn't go well,

where in the Wag the Dog and the eventual, when the WGA figured out who gets credit, Mamet had to share screenplay credit with somebody, and he and Barry Levinson really pissed off about that. So Mamet makes this rule. if he isn't getting sole credit, he's going to use a pseudonym. So this JD-Zke guy who never really goes on to write another significant movie, at least according to his IMDB, who knows what he did unofficially.

He does the original draft of Ronan, but if you watch this movie and you're at all familiar with Mamet's screenplays or his plays like American Buffalo, you could just tell it to David Mamet screenplay. All the repetition of dialogue, all the recurring questions, turning questions into answers, turning answers into questions, and that way in which he knows how to make this rhythmic poetry out of real tough guy dialogue is inimitable. It's like you can't make that stuff up and say it belongs to somebody else.

It's also the kind of movie that nobody was making in 98 because this is the height of Tarantino Ripoff action movies. So everything is all these flourishes and pop culture references and long monologues that are like about something else but are metaphors for whatever is happening. And Mamet doesn't really do that. No. And then the other thing is you mentioned how the movie feels like

it's set in a different time. It's crazy. So De Niro's in Heat in basically 95, so it's three years earlier. This movie feels like it came out 11 years before Heat. Yes. If you showed both movies to somebody, you're like, which movie?

Which movie is older? I don't think anyone would pick heat. Heat, everything about it. One of the things that I like about it is nothing really happens for the first 40 minutes. Like we have a quick shootout. But for the most part, they're smoking cigarettes. Yeah. It's build, build, build.

Nowadays, you'd have a shootout in the first, I would say, 11 minutes, right? You'd have some sort of something where even when in the beginning, when De Niro goes to stake out that, he meets everybody, puts the gar, the gun behind the crates, they would add some sort of fight scene or just something to kind of give you a little juice. But Frank and I didn't care. And that's the whole thing about this script in this movie, especially this incredible first hour,

is that the fun of it is that they don't give you any breadcrumbs. You don't know who these people are. You don't know how they've been hired. When they ask, how did you get hired? It's the guy in the wheelchair in Bristol. They never explained that. And Frankenheimer thought that, stuff was awesome. He was like, he was just not in the business of insulting our intelligence

while watching. So it's all left up to us to figure out, all right, so is this guy ex-CIA and is this guy ex-British Special Forces and who's this driver guy, Larry, and, you know, what's up with Vincent and Gregorosim? Is it Gregor German? You're the one, your brain is going and going and going while you're watching it. And that is, that activation of your brain takes place instead of a gunfight. well and the other reason it's a rewatchable is it takes a few times to get the feel for all the characters the first time they're just throwing all these actors at you and you're trying to navigate all these different experiences with the actors and you're like which one's that guy oh wait oh greigor is who's greigore again and by the fifth time you got it so deneerro you know

from basically king of comedy in 82 to he does the untouchable He's 87, but he's not even in the much. Yeah. Yeah. But he's not doing like the I'm Robert De Niro. I'm the star of the movie stuff for a lot of the 80s. Then he comes back at Midnight Run in 88. Then he's basically batting about 50%.

But the high 50% are classics. Like he's got Goodfellas in 90. Awakenings, which people liked, which is not age well in 90. Cape Fair, 91. Mad Dog and Glory in this boy's life. and Bronx Tale all in 93. It's great. It gets a little weird for in 94, 95.

Then all of a sudden, casino and heat within a month of each other. Then the fan in 96, sleepers in 96, which he's not in a ton, but is, you know, Marvin's room, Copland, Jackie Brown. Again, not carrying those movies anymore. Wag the dog, not carrying that one. Great expectations. This is the last kind of De Niro as a star run because he's got Ronan and 98, he's got analyzed this in 99 and meet the parents in 2000.

And then it goes sideways after that. I'd argue that this is the last great role he has until Silver Linings Playbook. So that's almost 20 years. Yeah. If you go, well, I think meet the parents. I think he's good in that. In terms of, um, it's just different. It's a departure.

I get it. But yeah, I think that in terms of like great roles, like Sam and Ronan is the last one until the dad in silver linings. I agree. And there's a clear delineation as you hit this late 90s De Niro where it just flips. And at this point,

we were just taking these Ronan performances for granted. Yeah. It was like, oh, yeah. Another great De Niro one. Well, I think that that was almost a little bit of, that was a little bit of a hurdle to get over

because you're coming off of heat. And it just is like, oh, okay, so De Niro is going to kind of have these like, you know, cool action movies on the side. That's,

that's okay. Before you see the movie and you realize what a feat it is for them to do the physicality of the movie, but also just like the dialogue. Yeah. Jean Reno is in this. Oh, yeah. The professional. Good 90s for him. Really strong.

Nakasha McAllione. How do you say it? I think it's Natasha McAlon. Yeah. Natasha McAlon. Darede. When do you want to start imitating her archa accent? I want to save that for like 20 minutes from now?

I was saving it for when we talk about Jonathan Price is Seamus. Oh, we'll get the case, Gregor! We'll get the case. Stellit Scarsgard. Great late 90s for him. Scarsguard was incredible because he was basically the Jose Okendo of Eastern Europeans. He could play Russian, German, Swedish, Finnish. He could go, because in Hunt for in October,

he plays like Sean Connery's Russian apprentice who's chasing him. But then he could also be. and like a John Irving adaptation in America. Like he, he was just like, whatever position you need him on the diamond, he's there. That's a great analogy. I'm really proud of you. Thank you.

One of your best. You could have even gone NFL draft 2020 and said he was the Isaiah Simmons. Yeah, that's right. He could have been from 20 countries. Yeah. Any country of leaving his from. If he showed up and he was just like, I'm Argentinian,

you'd be like, all right, Stel and Garzgard, incredible range. I'm Polish. Jonathan Price, who is Seamus, was also a bond villain. I think three people in this movie were bond villains at some point during the bond run. And then Sean Bean, who let's save the Sean Bean conversation because you know he's coming up. Roger Ebert, three stars. Yeah.

Roger's been on fire. He's loving everything we're doing. Since the disaster of Tommy Boy, we've really resuscitated his career. He said, quote, here with a fine cast, Frank. Hammer does what is essentially an entertaining exercise. The movie is not really about anything. If it were, it might have really amounted to something since it comes pretty close anyway. So there you go.

All right. We're into the categories in one second. Let's take a quick break. Chris, promote something. Should we promote Briar Patch? Where do we find Breyer Patch? Here's some stuff to promote. First of all, you can find Breyer Patch on demand.

You can find it on Amazon and iTunes. Breyer Patch is the show that Andy Greenwald, the co-host of the watch. created and wrote and executive produced and it's awesome. You can watch the whole first season. Also, I encourage people to still check out music exists. We're wrapping that up. We have a couple more episodes less. Music exists is me and Chuck Closterman talking about a different question facing music and talking about our lives listening to music. And we're on episode 11 or 12, I believe. So we have two or three more. And that's exclusive on Spotify. That's exclusive on Spotify, but it's free to listen to. Yeah. What's Chuck's gamut of emotions been with this

podcast. How many times has he texted you and said, I don't know if we should do this anymore. He's been smooth sailing. And most of the texts I get from him now are about Jordan. Oh, good. Okay. There you go. Okay. Back to this podcast. The categories. Most rewatchable scene. I'm not putting in the first shootout because it's fine. I want to start most rewatchable with De Niro turning on Sean Bean. What's the color of the boat house, man? man. Sean being in the shootout is really going for it. They drive away.

He throws up. He hasn't doubted up to 13. But then De Niro's like, all right, this guy's a fucking loser. We got to just get rid of this guy. Yes. Why is this guy here? He's terrible. Draw it again.

What's your problem? Draw it again. Draw it again. You're the ace field, man. Draw it again. Just simple diagram. Just draw it again. Draw what you saw.

Draw it again. draw it again. Sean Bean does this whole diagram. De Niro goes nuts. He backs it down, bumps him in a thing. And then the next thing, when you're watching it the first time, you're like, oh, Sean Bean's going to get his revenge. We'll see him later in the movie. No.

No. The next scene, he's just kind of smoking a SIG like, man, I'm a fucking failure. I can't even hang with these seven. And then Deirdre is just like, we won't forget. Yeah. Here's your money. You paid in full. draw it again as

Craig. Good De Niro. I like when De Niro just snaps in movies. In general it's just my favorite De Niro when he's just getting mad and getting in somebody's face. Great stuff. Next one, the first big shootout chase scene it's on location.

Some great Frant shots. De Niro shooting again? Yeah. Little Neil McCauley in downtown L.A. A little flash facts. I got a little tingles. It's a shame because, you know, I think that if Neil makes it out of the airport, if Neil hops a flight at LAX, you could just argue he goes straight to Nice and becomes this guy. So I had that later for probably in answerable questions. Is this a Neil McCauley sequel?

No, it's just, he's 50% there. I just wonder why De Niro didn't just go, fuck it, I'm just playing Neil again. I asked Michael Mayn for permission. Why he's so interested in what I do, lady? to book about medals. We have Jean Reno driving and making some awesome John Reno driving faces, which I had forgotten. John Reno,

one of our better, just different, whatever, you have the cars crashing into an outdoor bistro with tables and waiters that it almost looks like a fuck-up? Yes.

Where you have these people, the cars are kind of going, not at a slow speed, and you have these people scrambling, to get the fuck out of the way. And it's one of those, I mean, this movie has it a lot, which is why we love it.

But it's one of those, how the fuck did they do that scenes? I would say that one of the, it's hard to say whether this is aged good or bad, but one of the things that really defines this movie is the amount of innocent bystanders that get killed in it. Usually in action movies, they play by these invisible rules where,

you know, if a guy is standing at a farmer's market, you know, the car just misses him. Or if somebody's standing next, to the guy shooting a machine gun, they somehow jump out of the way. And there's usually very little collateral damage. People just get mowed down in this movie.

I love it. I don't know what she's the best. Remember in speed? Sandra Bollock hits the bus, hits the home asleep with all the cans. But then it turns out it's cans. She thinks she killed a baby. Yeah. I'm all for like, let's take out some people during these scenes.

Why not? It's a fucking movie. I loved, I loved, uh, when they just wipe out the motorcycle guy at one point. Oh, yeah, that's amazing. And one of their chase scenes. I undersold how good this chase scene is, and the cameras on the bottom of the cars and the wide shots.

And also, how narrow the streets are. It's one of those where you're watching the chasing and go, man. This is the part that the first born movie really jacks. And I would also say that, you know, there were really great car chase scenes before and after Ronan, but nothing actually that I can remember. makes you feel almost car sick the way Ronan does

because they are moving the cars at this speed that they would be moving in in the movie. They're not doing sped-up green screen backgrounds. They're not playing games where it's constantly cutting. Frankenheimer's shooting from above a lot. He's showing you the street that one car is coming down and the street another car is coming down. You always feel like you're going at the MPH

that the cars in the movie are going. He had a quote. that he says on the DVD commentary, I don't believe that violence happens in slow motion. Right. Everything is at normal speed in this movie. And I think that's why you're right. It makes you feel a little car sick.

I forgot to mention that this movie described on Wikipedia, a team of formal special operatives that is hired to steal a mysterious, heavily guarded briefcase while navigating a maze of shifting loyalties is one of the best descriptions I've seen of Wikipedia on a movie. I'm in. That's like, that's the entire. entire movie right there. We do anything to explain anything else.

This first big shootout chase scene also has one of my favorite gimmicks in any action movie that we've seen in more than just this movie. But when it happens, I fucking love it. The fucking switching cases gimmick. Oh, God, yeah. Oh, man. It's never not worth.

And Gregor is a sneaky little fucker in this movie, man. Oh, man. Although, I mean, like, the moment when De Niro realizes it with the paint on his jacket. It's tough. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a that case. It's gonna blow up. The, uh, I love when things get switched though. It's, it always works. They did it. Did they do it in focus? Yeah, there's a lot of bag switching in focus. Yeah. People were wondering whether focus could be a one for us. Who is, who, who, I don't think I can get you there.

I don't know. People. The, uh, the next rewatchable scene, the playground scene, when we know, Gregor has gone to the dark side and he's just like, I'm going to take out this kid in the playground. Yeah. And he goes to actually shoot the kid and the Russian that he's in the car with moves the gun and he just misses her.

It's also really cool just because you start when Gregor does that and Sam goes to see his CIA handler or whoever that guy is who's like, you know, do you know where a post office is? And he's like, do I know you? Sorry, do I know you? Because you seem to know me.

And that's such a great. Oh, yeah. So the guy, the Russian car goes, have you lost your mind? Why'd you do that? Gregor goes, to make a point. I don't know, but I was ready to splatter brains all over the playground, but you, I don't particularly like you. Just imagine what I'll do to you if you try anything. Now, give me my money. All right, strong move. Here, I'm going to kill this innocent eight-year-old in the playground to prove a point. Yeah. It's like, all right, Gregor, it's officially odd. This guy is. is pure evil. The amphitheater scene is good

when it seems like they're going to get Gregor. I like where they film that. I think one of the reasons I really like this movie is just the France footage. They're a great job. Awesome job. And also just like very real, kind of realistic about like all those,

you know, historical landmarks in a lot of France and Italy and a lot of Europe are just jam-packed with tourists all the time. So you're kind of maneuvering in and out of those big groups. Second big chase scene is the next rewatchable scene. This is where they, the guy on the bike. This is, I think, the more legendary of the two chase scenes.

And you also have Natasha's driving the car in this one. But there's this great moment. It's like, what, four minutes in of this harrowing chase scene and crazy shit happening. And it does the wide shot of the car. And Gregor is in the pastor seat. And he's like, I'm having to put my seatbelt on. It is the funniest thing in this. entire movie. She has already driven like 90 miles per hour down an alley. She's hit multiple cars.

She hit the side of a bus. And then finally when she's about to go down the wrong way down a highway, Greg was like... Right. Yeah. It's just subtly like, all right. Things are getting hairy now. And then they drive on the wrong side of a three lane road for four minutes of the movie. Had you seen that before? Not like that where you start going. Did they actually do this? Yes, right. Like, did they just have stunt drivers say, fuck it? Can you try to do this?

Obviously, they didn't do that. But there's a lot of, I don't want to bore the audience with all the internet research of how they storyboarded all of these driving scenes. But Frankenheimer is like storyboarding. Every single shot we see is planned ahead of time. So I'm sure they storyboarded that whole driving on the wrong side thing. But the crazy thing is there's not just one car. it's the one car and then the car that's following it

with De Niro and Jean Reno and so it's another like I don't know how the fuck they did that nowadays you would just assume they did CGI and stuff but back then they did not that scene is great that's going to be my favorite scene in the movie two more though

Katerina Witt the whole figure skating kind of parallel they're behind trying to convince her boyfriend to whatever yeah yeah And then Caterina skating and Gregor is like 25 seconds, 20 seconds. They'll be unable to call. Your friend would be shot 30 seconds. They shoot him in the head and then Caterina Witt buys it.

That's a good tense scene. And then the final scene. Yeah. What wasn't the case? I don't remember. Listen number two. Keep in touch. The De Niro and Jean-Rie.

you know, having coffee, De Niro's in a sling doing his, almost like his Charles Grotin goodbye, midnight run kind of vibe. And you think, you think Natasha McAlone's going to show up. No, doesn't show up. But in the alternate ending, right, she's waiting outside, decides not to go down, goes back up, and the IRA grabs her, throws her in a van, calls her a traitor. And we're going to do this an F.S. Internet research, but it's too important, I think. The test audiences hated it. Yes. Frankenheimer preferred it.

Test audiences hated it. And Frankenheimer is like a veteran and he's like, you know what? United Ars spent a lot of money on this movie. If they want to go this way, we can go this way. Mistake. Yeah. I like the alternate anymore.

It also, maybe they were trying to keep a sequel alive, a little Ronin 2 action. Who knows? But I thought they should have included that. So what's your favorite scene out of all those rewatchable scenes? Definitely the second chase. You're right. It's just one of the best car chases ever.

committed to film. I would just throw in there that I am actually a really big fan of the initial scenes of them getting to know each other in the warehouse where they're all sleeping on cots. And Sam asks Vincent, are you labor or management? And he's like, if I was management, I wouldn't have offered you a cigarette. So all that banter in the beginning is just perfect. I love the sense of place with like, even though they shot that on a set, just like the French tavern where they go in and meet in Paris. And all the original. kind of like what's in the case, what's the territory, what's the map, does the, is the case handcuffed to a guy's arm and we got to chop it off some poor bloke's arm? And I actually

really like the way that it's handled the crowd sequence at the end of the movie coming out of the figure skating arena, both that chase and the De Niro reveal that it's all been a MacGuffin. So I'm going to go second chase, but there's a bunch of good stuff in there. I forgot to mention, you know, my dad who loves movies like this. So I texted him last night, watching Ronan for the Wii Watchables. How is this not one of your favorite movies ever? And he texted me back, it is. Seen it a dozen times.

Classic. And then he goes, watch the replacement killers last night. Also a classic. This is like, pretty good. Yeah, this is like my dad's kind of wheelhouse, the Ronan. All right, what's age the best? Katarina Witt. What is Zag from you?

Yeah. God, I loved her. God. Thank God, fantasy is near to throw cold water on me right now. To do Lisa Bonnet and Katerina Witt within a two-week span of the rewatchables. I'm just kidding. She was the greatest looking female athlete we had for the first 20-plus years of my life. She was German. She had that kind of, I'm not positive. I should trust her. Is she a Bond villain? Yeah.

Yeah. It's just like, what side of Germany? We're not sure. I fall in love with her and then she arranges my murder you just don't know She's got a knife in her shoe somehow Oh my God She was the fucking best Especially for what I was looking for

From a lady back then It was like this is all the mystery And danger I've ever wanted She was pretty and she was Just stacking gold too right Oh man A legend So then she

You know it's kind of over at this point She's won a gold medal And I think she might have even won two gold medals But she was an iconic figure skater. And then randomly just shows up in this movie playing a Russian gold medal winning figure skater. I'm not positive.

She has a line I can even remember in this movie. She definitely speaks. She does chat. Like I think she says, come on, Mickey or something like that. Right. That's about it. It's basically they go to her and they're like, hey, man. We just need a hot figure skater.

It's De Niro and Manit and Frankenheimer. You want to hang out and skate a little. It's again. We're not asking for much here. put a figure skating effort. It's not bridges of Madison County, but it's going to have to do. God bless, Katerina Witt. Natasha McAlone's Irish accent.

But we have to move very quickly. We have to improvise. We'll start with this. Ambush and assault on two to three vehicles, five to eight men. And our objective is the safe retrieval of this case. Tell Vincent what it is you'll need. She's from England. Yeah.

I thought she had a great job. I was doing the job. It's like a little searcherone. She also in line with that, another thing that's aged the best is Natasha McAlone's outfits have now come back into style. That's how like almost every woman dresses now, baggy jeans, that style of wearing your top. It was just great call by her, a visionary. I have more about her later. I thought she did an awesome job.

Another one's aged the best, De Niro, how he gets the photograph of the case is really great. love like stupid shit. Oh my God. That whole set up. So good. And that is actually like, that was how you had to do it where it was like you kind of had to go up to a random person and be like, take my $400 camera. And please don't run off with it.

And then they do the whole daddy studying the photographs. He's like, watch how that guy never moves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just holding the case. The first shootout into the first car chase is a borderline rewatchable. The reason I like it is Sean B. he's just going for it. I have Sean Bean in Dionne Waiters

because I think he is making a run at changing the name of the award in this movie. You could make the argument that Sean Bean Ronan is the new Dion Waders. Well, you could also put him in the Vincent Hanna they new award. So we'll litigate that later. He, I wonder, like,

did Frankenheimer want him to do this? Or was Sean being like, I'm in a De Niro movie. I'm fucking going for it, man. I'm only in four scenes. I am bringing the heat. He's got to be that way, though. He's got to be the person who is showing how De Niro is cool under pressure where he's not. And he also does a really good job of like, he's almost like a reality show villain.

Like, because you know how like when you watch Survivor, there's always a guy who shows up at camp and is like, all right, let's start building the camp. And then it becomes a parent. that he has no idea how to build anything. But he's like, yeah, I'm going to need you to get some palm fronds. What are you doing? And you're like, oh, yeah, you don't know anything about roofing, you know? A couple more. First 40 minutes builds and builds.

We mentioned that. I know. I feel like we've known each other 10 years now. Few things you love more in an action movie than somebody with the emergency makeshift operation to pull a bullet out. Oh, the self-op? The self-op is one of your five favorite action movie tricks. Yeah.

I just need you to hold up a mirror. Yeah. Is like, I'm in. I don't. That's the name of my first screenplay. I'm going to need you to hold up a mirror. And it's just me operating on myself.

What any pain killers? No. No. Just here. Can you put out some gloves here as a scalpel? It's always because they've gotten some veterinarian to do it. Or it's just a guy who happens to have. some rubbing alcohol and he's not at all prepared to do bullet surgery.

There's the sickest thing ever. What are your favorite self-op scenes? Because like for me, I remember when Rambo cut his side of first blood. Hold on. There's one I know that I'm thinking of that. Well, Heat has the Jeremy Piven with the operating on De Niro. But I remember in first blood. Bill, there's a, there's an all-time one.

Because it not only is a self-op, but it's a self-op before modern medicine really kicks in. And that's Master and Commander. Oh, yeah. Paul Bettney has to pull. And the whole thing is like, if my shirt, if fabrics from my shirt get in the wound, I'm going to die of sepsis. Right. And I'm on a boat in the South Pacific. That's the all-timer.

Yeah. Cast away, Hank pulls the tooth out with the ice gate is a good. good one. And then John Wick has a good one. First blood is a good one. First blood is a good one. First blood when he's stitching up his side and then he's like making the makeshift coat. I feel like the fugitive is kind of cheating because it's like, of course he could operate on himself, right? Yeah, that's not. He's a real doctor. That doesn't count.

When are we doing first blood? Whenever you want, man. I got nothing going on. I think the first 35 minutes of First Blood might have been the most excited I've ever been in a movie theater. I saw it when I was like 13. There never been a movie like that. He's riding a motor scooter in a mountain. I'm like, what is happening? My head almost exploded. I like, I love when he operates on himself. I love that whole scene. That should have been a rewatchable scene. I should have put that in there. I like the realization of they realized the Russians were the only ones who could have produced the second case in time. And De Niro looks at John Reno and goes,

we're following the wrong people. It's always a nice little swerve an hour plus in the movie. I love the two lessons. Whenever there's any doubt, there's no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you. Vincent says,

who taught you? And Sam goes, I don't remember. That's the second thing they teach you. Yeah. And then at the end, John Reno goes, no questions,

no answers. That's a business wherein you just accept it and move on. Maybe that's lesson number three. I feel like those three lessons are good. Pretty solid. Yeah. Yeah.

Nice one. I should have adopted it when we launched Grantland. Whenever there's any doubt, there is no doubt. It's the first thing they teach you. Any other what stage the best? Yeah, just the way that they do the locations, obviously south of France is this really beautiful, usually think of it in the sort of the Riviera and, you know,

like romantic movies maybe. This is really like saturated and gray and kind of grimy. And it's kind of like south of France and maybe like before spring. It looks a little chillier out there. Everybody's wearing like their turtlenecks. And I love how like kind of gritty he makes it. And just the way in which he uses the locations. I would also say that one of the things that's aged the best actually in the rewatch

is how the movie basically changes entirely over two or three times. It starts out you think it's going to be a guys on a mission movie. And that the whole movie is going to be built up to get the case. Yeah. And then there's the sort of international intrigue part about it of like who's who's, who's vying for the case, the Russians, the Irish, you get in the CIA or the Americans involved. And then in the end, it becomes more about De Niro, Deirdre, and Mickey.

It's like kind of a cat and mouse game. So I like the fact that the movie kind of changes the stakes a couple of times over the course of the film. And then at the end becomes back to it, like an international spy thriller almost. I like it as well. Do you think that the McGuffin is aged well? It's funny. I had that in the, I had a cat, I was going to create a category just for this.

All right. Let's do that. No, it was between what stage the best and what stage the worst. It's a new category called what's age the I don't know. Yeah. The McGuffin was definitely a thing in the 90s because, you know, Tarantino did impulp fiction. Everyone's paying homage to Hitchcock.

So a McGuffin for anybody who doesn't know is when something seems to be the object of obsession in a movie or the sort of driving plot device in a movie. and it winds up either not mattering or we never really find out why it matters. It felt too close to Pulp Fiction when they did it when I saw Ronan in the late 90s. I was like, ah, the fucking briefcase? Like, I just saw this.

Now that we've had some age and some other movies have done it, I don't know. I can't decide. I always enjoy not knowing, but at the same time, it just felt like a Pulp Fiction ripoff. I think it would have been annoying had it not been for that last sort of exchange

between Sam and Deirdre, where Sam is like, I was never here for the case. I was always here for your boss. That's like a really cool twist. And when he does that, he's like, I'm here for Seamus. It just makes the whole movie kind of makes sense in a different way.

Because he's constantly asking, let me call your boss, let me talk to your people, let me, I want to go with you to go talk to your people. And it kind of makes sense as to why he does what he does. What's age the worst?

I mentioned this before, but I wish De Niro had just been Neil McCauley. I just think Frankenheimer should have called Michael Mann and just be like, hey, man, she's had the crazy idea. I'm just going to call this guy, Neil. We're never going to say anything, but De Niro's just going to be on that corner. Is that cool? I think Michael Mann would have been fine with it. De Niro kissing somebody.

Even fake kissing? He kisses Dairja in this movie. Like, why does it always bum? It's just gross for some reason to see De Niro, De Niro or Pacino making out with somebody always makes me feel worse than my parents. There's a good sense not to put himself in that position very often. It's usually a very chaste love that he has. It's like one of the other movies that we had been talking about doing for today was Sea of Love.

And we probably would have just spent the entire movie talking about Al Pacino's kissing style, which looks literally like the facehugger from Alien trying to suck oxygen out of someone else's lungs. I can't believe Ellen Barkin made it through that movie. I think that's why she's had so many problems since. Puccino was eating her face for two months. My, but the best man in my wedding, Jeff Gallo, we,

we, Sea of Love was one of our movies. We used to joke about constantly, like the sex scenes, we just thought were the most hilarious. Puccino, like, grabbing, or Ellen Barker grabbed me,

Pacino from behind, like putting her hands down his pants. Like, what are you looking for, Frank? What are you looking for it? Pachino's like, oh, killing me.

And just like, it's so bad. It's so gross. But when I saw it, I was like, this movie is amazing. Yeah, Pacino, getting it on. This is what sex must be like. Well, that leads us to the third thing, which is they kind of shoehorn the tension, sexual, something with De Niro and Deirdre. And it comes out of nowhere.

Yeah. In the first hour, it's like, oh, these two are attracted on each other. finally they're acting on it, but there's no scene that hints that they might be attracted to one another. They don't have that scene where it's just like they're having a cup of coffee and she says, tell me, how'd you get into this? Or just some sort of connection scene doesn't exist. So when all of a sudden they start making out, it just seems like out of nowhere. I didn't like it. Well, the making out, I think, is supposed to throw people off the scent that they're watching them. But I think that every other thing that De Niro does in this movie suggests that he either

would have killed Deirdre before the second chase starts, or that he would have let her get caught when they're going for Seamus at the end at the ice skating rink, what he says, just walk away, just run, just walk away.

So yeah, I think that that was, in the LA Times articles about the screenwriting credit issue with this movie, it suggested that Mamick came in and did some punching up on De Niro and added the love interest, added the love interest part of it.

And yeah, it's unnecessary. It could actually just, you could have just removed any of the sentimentality from it and still had the same the same stuff happen in the movie. Or at least have him read a book about medals. Why are you so interested in what I do or what I read?

I'm sorry. I just saw any other what's aged the worst before we move on. Yeah, we got to talk a little bit about first of all, I would say the score. The score is like cool, but it's the most 70s thing in the movie. I think if I had like my way, I would have someone go in and redo the score.

Just kind of give it the heat score even. I don't even care. Just have like low pulsing keyboards. It would probably make it even cooler. I was thinking with that, like the saint, because this is right in that era of prodigy. Oh, yeah.

All those bands. But that probably would, yeah, that would have been tough if that age bad. I mean, but the born identity had that kind of score. So you're right. That kind of would work.

The only other thing that I think is age pretty poorly is I really love the fact that this movie employs so many middle-aged actors because usually people age out of these kinds of roles. But you can kind of see a little bit of the seams on the stunt work from time to time. And there's a scene

especially where De Niro's character stands up in a sunroof, through a sunroof, while he's chasing someone and shoots a bazooka at the car in front of them. And the guy who stands up through the sunroof is so obviously like 22 years old.

He's got like a lustrous head of black hair. Yeah. And they're shooting it from behind. And there's a lot of scenes in the amphitheater where De Niro or Jonathan Price will jump. And like, you know, an Olympic gymnast will land and do a tumble. And then like on time. And then you'll see like they'll just roll onto each other in a very safe way. So the stunt work sometimes at times is a little bit subpar.

Very fair. Next category. Casting what ifs. I don't have any. There's not enough research on this movie. Couldn't find anything. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award.

I'm going to give it to Skip Sutth. Yeah, that's a good one. I was going to give it to Michael Lonsdale, the model maker surgeon, who is also in another movie that I think really had a lot of influence on this one, just Dave the Jackal. Yeah.

Great movie. Good one. Yeah. Early, 70s, right? Yeah, mid-70s. Yeah. Well, I also have Skip Sutth than the recasting couch.

Do, where does, does Katerina Vick going Joey pants? Or is that, is that more who won the movie? No. No, just wait on her. She's coming up. The Skip Sutt part feels like that could have been a perfect

late 90s, up and coming actor that became more famous a couple years later. I was thinking, Ben Affleck. Could have done that? Because it's like, this movie comes out six months after,

Goodwill Hunting, but he could have filmed it during, you know, as before they knew Goodwill Hunting was going to be a smash hit. And at that point, he's just chasing Amy and Mallrats, a couple others. And I feel like it needed something like that. Skip Sutt, I don't know what happened to. I would have loved to have seen. He's on like, he's done TV a lot. Like, Skip Sutt, I think he's on one of those like Chicago shows or something. Because I think I feel like I see him all the time on on TV, like when I'm waiting for basketball to start on. TNT. He's like a he's like a precinct captain or something.

It would have been too early for him, but like Colin Farrell. Yeah, that would have been cool. Colin Farrell could also have maybe done the Sean Bean Sean Bean part, yeah. Yeah, he probably would have actually. Three years later, I think he is at. The Vincent Hanna, they knew a word. Sean Bean. Okay. Just owning it.

Sean Bean definitely, definitely wins the Vincent Hanna Award. There's no question. No, he's just, it's dialed up. But then Dionne Wade, Yes. So I had Caterina Witt here, you know why? Because I fucking love Caterina Witt. I know you do.

It brought me back a lot of emotions. Here's the thing about the Dion Waders Award. You have to look for a performance in the film that mimics Dion Waders' Icarus-like rise. You know, his flying towards the sun. You're right. I know you're right. Sean Bean in his limited time in this movie, he's only in the movie for the first like 40 minutes. Here's his list of accomplishments.

walks his team into an ambush, freaks out, wildly shoots an automatic machine gun, and gets into a shootout by the CN River, screams, almost a bit of raspberry jam back there, got the swag, kept the money, job well done. Almost a bit of raspberry jam back there, eh? A bit raspberry jam back there. Got the swag, kept the money, job well done. That's a fact, that's a fact. Then barfs, then gets ambushed with a cup of coffee by Robert De Niro because he sets up another ambush where people are shooting each other but across the road.

De Niro ambushes him with a cup of coffee and it leads to the greatest line of the movie, which is... Oh my, where'd you learn that? Huh? In a regiment. What regiment was that? The 22nd Special Air Service. What's the color of the boathouse in hereford? What's the color of the boathouse at hereford?

I don't know your attitude. The color of the boat happened. Fuck up. So I just, I think Sean Bean is in the running not only to win Dion Waiters, but to change the name of the award. Yeah, you're right. Well, how many times has somebody won the Nadeau award and Dian Waiters? It's pretty hard. It's, it's rare.

It's like winning MVP and rookie the year in the same season. It happens. But when it happens, you remember it. Got the swag. Kept the money. Job well done. Half-ass internet research, a total of 80 automobiles were destroyed during filming. You know, I always love that.

Yeah. The Frankenheimer, no special effects in the car chase scenes, or he avoided them. He did a lot of the storyboards, camera mounts, all that stuff that he did in Grand Prix, put the actors in the car. They were driven up to 100 miles an hour. He had a Formula One driver, high-performance drivers in there. He also made the actors role in high-performance driving school before production began. which apparently De Niro must have failed the course

because it looks like every time we see him driving, he looks like the old lady at the end of Ferris Bueller. They put point of view shots from cameras, man and blow the car's front fenders. Freakin did that in French Connection too. I think that might have been the first time that it happened, but I'm sure that there's some other example of it. So, yeah.

I mean, if you're really interested in the driving mechanics of this movie, there's a lot of pieces about it. Unfortunately, no casting what if pieces. but a lot of driving pieces. So in the scene when Sam De Niro is shot and the bullets removed, he said the bullet was Teflon coated, which is why it penetrated his bulletproof vest. Those were the cop killer bullets.

That was the time when they eventually took those off the market. So that was that. And then we mentioned the two alternate endings. One was the one we talked about where she's abducted. by the IRA and you think that's it. They also filmed another one where she just walks to her car after they leave the bistro, but doesn't get abducted. And they thought it was to Hollywood.

So they dumped that as well. They also added on the radio announcement at the end that the Irish peace process has gone through and that basically the understanding being that Sam saves that peace treaty by getting Seamus. Right. Apex Mountain. Stellen Scarsguard. He's got this and Goodwill Hunting in the same year. And then Deep Blue Sea, a year after, it just feels like it didn't get much better for him than that. I mean, he's been around. He's been in a million movies, but this is kind of peak Stellan. Bill,

great call. Thank you. Apex Scarsguard. Apex. Caterina. Katarina Witt, no. No. Her apex is on top of the metal stand. John Frankenheimer. I'd say Manchurian candidate's got to be. Yeah, it's got to be. I agree. Jean Reno, the professional.

Not De Niro. Natasha McAlone. Hmm. She spent a lot of time on Californication. I would say Californication. That show is good. I like that show. Movies with mysterious suitcases that get switched.

What do you have above this would be my question? Man, that's a great question. Yeah. Is this Apex Mountain for suitcase movies? Yeah, it might be. Might be. Might be. I don't even know where you buy those suitcases.

Yeah, I think it is. I think it's in the mix. And then this late 90s, France movies. Absolutely. I was going to say Apex Mountain for Nice. Yeah. There you go. Pickin Nits.

Again, why did Deere and Deerre suddenly become attracted to each other? I don't know. Why didn't Katerina Witt just play herself? I think that would have been more. of an international incident if she was assassinated in a skating exhibition. Yeah, exactly. That seems so much bigger.

It's like, oh, my God, they shot the actual Catarina Witt. That would have worked. How long was her skating performance? It was a good flaw in this movie. How long was it? It's just going on for a while. Like De Niro and Jean Reno, they're going underneath. They're getting through security.

There's a whole showdown. It might be a 25. minute skating performance. I don't think anyone's ever done a solo skating performance. How long was the song? Were they using Freebird by Leonard Skinner? What's going on? Did they have to use? Hotel California. The sniper woman was like, Jesus Christ, when is this going to wrap up? My God. I did a protein bar. And then where was the security? That's what I was going to say, man. This is the picking knit that I have is just the lax law enforcement of France.

There's so, there is basically a countrywide crime spree that cost dozens of lives to say nothing of the amount of carnage on the road that it's doing. Farmers markets are destroyed. Shootouts outside of hotels. Car chases through towns. Bistros absolutely ravaged. And they never really seem that, that concerned about the cops. And even when there is like, they're, they're kneeing security guards in the balls to get

backstage at ice skating events, there just never seems to be that much pressure from the police. I know that this is before a technological surveillance state or whatever, but it really does seem to be pushing it a little bit. Yeah, the second big chase scene, they're driving on the wrong side of the road for like 10 minutes. It ends with a car crash into a construction site and a thing blowing up. And De Niro and Jean Reno are standing at the top of the highway shooting at them. No cops. No cops. Just say, hey, they just saw each other at. They got away. Want to get a cup of coffee? Like just everything's fine.

Best quote, we mentioned a couple of them. I like either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape. Good senior year book quote there. You ever kill anybody? I heard somebody's feelings once. Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of What were you doing back here? Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of it. Then why would you get into that barn?

You know the reason. That's right out of heat. Yeah, it's right out of heat. And then after they pull the bullet out, if you don't mind, I'm going to pass out. You think you could stitch me up on your own? You don't mind I'm going to pass out. Thought was good.

Any other quotes before we go? Tell me about an ambush. Tell me about an ambush. I ambush you with a cup of coffee. Tell me about an ambush. Tell me about an ambush. I ambush you with a couple coffee. Yeah.

You're my wife. Maybe you don't want to look like it. It's just a game, just a game. Man and a woman going for a walk and all that that entails. You got to say that to your wife next time you take a walk. Man and a woman going for a wife, all that entails. What does that entail? I don't know.

I just love that. De Niro's characters never seem to understand the concept of marriage or long-term, long-term love at all. You're my wife. You're my wife. All that entails. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Next category. I kind of talked myself into this a little bit.

Me too. I don't see why not. Netflix has all the money. Let's go basically like that you could either expand this story or you could just do the further adventures of Sam. Yeah. probably unanswerable questions. How did Catarina Witt end up

with such an ugly boyfriend husband? Come on. It just gets really weird over there in Russia, man, in Eastern Europe. Jesus. I just wanted more, I expected more from her.

When you see, like, the owner of Chelsea, like Roman Abramovich, and he just has, like, the most gorgeous girlfriend. You're just kind of like,

uh, they just do things different. Who won the career battle? Between Katarina, of it and Robert De Niro. Between Natasha McAlone and Fampkee Jansen. I feel like it was just market corrections going back and forth there for the next 20 years. I think that's a really good question because Jansen,

she easily could have been in this movie. Natasha McAlone easily could have worked at the place in Rounders. She could have been an X-Men. Yeah. They could have, Natasha McAlone easily could have been Leon Nieson's wife and Taken. Yeah. He just go on and on. Famke Jansen easily could have been to Coveney's wife in Californication.

They were on each other's corner forever. Do you think they like each other? No. No, I don't. And then the other one, who was the one who's in Casino Royale, who ended up in Love Monkey, who never totally make it, who was in enemy of the state briefly selling lingerie to Will Smith, that lady? Oh, yeah.

But that's not. She was on that corner, too, a little bit, but they kind of knocked her off. whatever her name was. I thought you were referring to like Eva Green or Olga Kurolenko. No, neither. Eva Green had, I think she had her own thing.

But I don't know who won FAMCy Jansen. I don't know if they're friends, her and Natasha. How many times are up for the same parts? That'd be a great ringer piece. You think they walk around like Beverly Hills being like you and me, best friends, all that that entails.

Oh, we'll get the case, Gregor. Fimkin Janssen. They're just like, you're our Shack's just not good enough, Fampke. All right, I have a great one for you. Probably an answerable question number three. Robert De Niro.

Bad athlete? Yeah. Yeah. When has Robert De Niro convincingly thrown anything in a movie? Raging Bull, really realistic boxer. I think that that's different. I think that we've seen over the course

of the last 50 years, especially, actors can train themselves to look like boxers. Godfather 2, running on the roofs. Pretty good, but he's not running. He's kind of walking carefully in that movie. Has like an athletic feeling to him. Midnight run, there's a couple scenes where you're like, eh. Yeah.

But it's supposed to be because he's like smoking all the time. He's like in bad shape. Cape Fear, incredible shape. But doesn't really do that much. athletic stuff, it starts to go off the rails. There's some good fellas where you're like, when there's stop, when he has to beat or stop somebody, it always feels a little unconvincing, which crests and the Irishman, which is the funniest scene of, uh, 2018.

I mean, there's a lot to be said for age, but like when you watch the football game and point break, you feel like Keanu and Swayze have played football before. Right. Good athletes. I just can't see De Niro like throwing an out pattern. No, but this movie, the athleticism really gets a little dicey. Yeah, he was a little older at this point. But he gets chased down by Pacino at the end.

Oh, yeah. That's three packs of cigarettes a day. Petito can run. Pacino's 5-4 and a chain smoker. He's just a haul some down from behind. But amazing 40-yard sprint. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know enough about the near-athlet thing, but there's never been a movie. The fan was another one where, you're like, is this guy a good athlete? Anyway, then what was in the briefcase?

I think it had something to do with like nuclear codes or plutonium or something like that. But that's my best guess. Yeah, you figure the Russians, Russians, they want it. Still a little end of the Cold War.

Yeah. Yeah, it's still a little fringes of that. There's something about blowing something up. Yeah, because if Seamus gets it, he can basically, up in the entire piece process.

Who won the movie? Are you going to say Katerina Vitt? I mean, in my heart. Back on the metal stand? In my heart, she did, but I don't want to actually give her this honor. I kind of want to give it to Frankenheimer,

honestly. De Niro's really good. It's either Frankenheimer or a Mammot for me. De Nore's really good. He's not great. I don't, I don't,

this does feel like he just showed up in the set, did his job for three months, and got that out of there. I don't feel like this was like a heat, Neil McCauley kind of, I'm throwing myself into every single nuance of this character kind of performance. And this was during the era when he's just making four movies a year.

Yeah. He's gone for one movie to the next. I agree with you. I think it's Frankenheimer. And I think he'd make the case is the best movie he ever made, which was inconceivable in the mid-90s. I mean, it's also cool because it feels so different than Manchering Canada. It's closer to break Grand Prix,

but it just shows like the breadth of his style. and he was such an incredible, he was just, he just delivered, man. Like, I mean, he had, like, some lost years there, but, like, when he made one of these genre movies, seven days in May, whatever, like, they're just reliably solid, so good, so rewatchable and just so, like, well done. I vote for Frankenheimer.

Before we go, can you do your imitation of one of the IRA terrorists in the van trying to get information from Natasha McAlone? Daredeh! Where'd you put the case, Deirdra? What happened to it, Deirdra? Where'd you put it, Deirdra? Should they have had Bono in that scene? I think.

Just in the van. It's just Bono, and that's it? That's it for the rewatchables. We don't know what's coming next, but I know we're going to do another two next week. And this was fun as always. Thanks, Chris Ryan. Thanks, Bill.