The Rewatchables - ‘Say Anything’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Judd Apatow

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan, and writer-director Judd Apatow don’t want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. They would rather rewatch the 1989 Cameron Crowe classic, ‘Say Anything’ starring John Cusack, Ione Skye, and John Mahoney. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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get a quote or find an agent at StateFarm.com. We're also brought to you by the ringer.com and the Ringer podcast network where we launched a new podcast. I think we've only done four at this point. Higher learning. Van Lathen, Rachel, Lindsay, an essential podcast, especially

right now. This podcast that you're about to listen to, we actually taped a couple weeks ago because we had Jed Apatow for, I don't know, half an afternoon. So we did a rewatchables with them, and then we taped something for the BS podcast as well. That's running later in the week. It's say anything. It is a movie that I said to him, pick any movie. Whatever you want to, let's do rewatchable. So that is, what is happening right now. I gave her my heart, and she gave me a pen. Say anything.

Coming up next. In court doesn't go out. She's a brain trapped in the body of a game show hostess. We don't want to see you get hurt. I want to get hurt. Diane in court. Hello, Diane. Lloyd Dobliss, sir.

I'm an athlete, so I rarely drink. I can kickboxing. I heard of kickboxing sport of the future. I can see by your face, no. My point is you can relax because your daughter will be safe with me for the next seven, eight hours, sir. John QZ Ione Sky

Say anything All right Chris Ryan is here Special guest Jud Appetow is here Wow your first one This is it This is the exclamation

point of your career I feel like I feel like this took way too long It doesn't make sense That the invitation would come so late But whatever

I feel bad I was nervous I never want to get rejected for the rewatchables I always I want to ease into it But this worked out And I asked you

What movie you wanted to do you sent me a couple and Chris and I Chris you love this movie I love this movie I adore it yeah so I saw it on the list I was like oh yeah that's the one

Say Anything came out in 1989 you said this was one of the movies that made you want to do this for a living why I think it was the first time I saw a movie that really felt like it reflected

my friend group I felt that way when I saw Cameron and Crow's first movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I certainly related to the short man who worked at the movie theater.

Sometimes you just see yourself on screen really clearly. Was his name rat? What was his name? Yeah, rat. And then when I saw anything, it seemed to capture our

sense of humor. And John Cusack was so great, and I love the sure thing. And so I was, I was tracking my John Cusack pretty tightly at that point. I don't even know if I made the Cameron Crow connection that this was the person that wrote past times at Ridgemont High. And now when I look back in my career, I'm very open about the fact that I just could not have stolen more from this movie.

And in conscious and unconscious ways, when I rewatched it, I noticed imagery and behavior. It is completely shameless. And I have begged Cameron Crow for his forgiveness for many years. Yeah, but that's the thing with writers and with filmmakers and musicians. I think you become a product of the things you love the most when you were either growing up or when stuff starting to hit you the right way. So that makes sense to me. Chris, is this a Cameron Crow movie or a John Cusack movie?

I think it's probably a Cameron Crow movie. the reason why I say that though is because the characters in this movie are so indelible that I still think about them as Lloyd and Diane rather than Ione Sky and John Cusack. And that was the big thing for me was, I think this movie came out. I was still, you know, I was still

making my way through the Bat Mitzvah circuit. I hadn't quite graduated to high school relationships yet, but it was the first peak I had at that kind of world that you would have like a girlfriend that would be something that you would really pursue and that that was what it would be like. And yeah, like, I think,

think even though there's pretty much every single person in this movie went on to do really cool things afterwards, I think of, I think of it as Corey. I don't think of it as Lily Taylor, you know, I think of it as Joe. I don't think of it as Lauren Dean. So I think that these characters just took up, they just occupied my, my imagination for such a long time. They feel like they're, they're real people to me. And then when you talk about the arc of high school movies where, in Fast Times is almost like an outlier, I don't even have you can compare that to anything, But you have that whole stretch of 16 candles and breakfast club and all the John Hughes movies and all the trying to get laid movies like class and losing it, movies like that.

And it kind of crests with Camp I Me Love in 1987 where we've taken like rom-com in high school as far as you can go. And then it's kind of no man's land for a little bit. And this is like the first really well-crafted relatively modern high school movie. It's 31 years old. Did it feel old to you watching it, Judd? I didn't at all. I feel like it's very timeless.

Obviously, there's jokes in it that are of the time. Because I'd funny shot in the opening scene when she's doing the graduation speech where they cut to the crowd and all of the parents have the largest video recorders you've ever seen. And then they put a really loud sound effect. Like, they're all noisy. but for the most part, other than the scene in the telephone booth,

there's not much that ages in the movie and I also thought the costumes held up pretty well too. Sometimes you see movies from other eras and there's some collars that throw you.

But that part held up really well. And I think the behavior is so universal. You know, the way they talked was very influential for me, because people were funny, but it was completely grounded. You know, the movie was produced by James Brooks and Polly Platt, and this was, you know, a few years after terms of endearment and broadcast news.

So you felt the process of a lot of really smart people being part of the collaboration with Cameron Crow on the first movie he directed. And I read somewhere that for a while Lawrence Kazan was circling, directing this movie and that he realized that it seems so personal to Cameron Crow that he should push for him to do it, which makes perfect sense. Also, because he's one of the great guys of all time, Lawrence. Well, and Crow's only like 32 at this point. It's interesting, though, they bring in, so Jim Brooks is basically the fairy godfather of this movie. He's also at a, you know, a monster point of his career. It's just like everything he's doing. We did broadcast news as a

rewatchable a while ago. The guy's just on the all-time hot streak. And he's not even done yet because the Simpsons is just about to happen and all these things. But it's funny, you at, you know, the last, I don't know how many years, maybe 12 to 15, you would be brought into some of these, you would oversee these movies kind of as the Jim Brooks figure, right? Like, what are the qualifications when you do something like that? When you're there just to help the filmmaker and nudge them in the right ways, but not overpower them? You know, it's a very delicate process. I remember when I first met Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson,

they were working with James Brooks, who was a producer on Bottle Rocket. And that was my dream to get James Brooks to give me notes and help me figure out how to do this. I think a lot of it is, can you find a way to help people, give them the knowledge you have,

but be very aware of what they want to say and how they want to say it. and not screw them up. Can you help them without knocking them off the tracks they should be on? And sometimes people are way off. And so when you make a suggestion, it's a gigantic suggestion that changes everything about what they want to do. And if they indicate that that doesn't feel right to them,

you have to say, okay, maybe not that. And sometimes people are very close, and there's subtle, you know, subtle, you know, nudging in certain direction. I remember when we worked on the big sick and I was doing that for Kamil and Emily, it was a real discussion of what is his spirituality? Does he believe in God?

And he did want to talk about how it's different for a young person than immigrant parents who see their religion very different. And Kamel wasn't sure how to address that but I had that instinct. I think you have to say, say something. I think you have to address it directly. I, as a reader, I want to know if he believes

in God. I want to know where he stands with his religion because there were these great scenes where he would go downstairs to pray, but really he would just play video games. And I thought, well, that's pretty modern take on all of this. But I did want to know what, what does he believe? And at some point, Kamel and Emily came up with the idea that he would say, you know what? I'm just, I'm just trying to figure it out. And that seemed to be all you needed was the idea that maybe his parents were pressuring him so much that they weren't letting him come to himself in his own way, in his own time. You know, you have to find your faith independently so people can't make you have faith. So part of my producing is just to look for things that are not fully developed yet and for certain conversations.

sometimes I might have the idea that helps fix it, but most of the time I'm just pushing them to answer a question that hasn't been answered yet. For instance, when I did The 40-year-old Virgin, Gary Shaling was always saying, you know, you have to show them have sex. And I'm like, what? And he's like, you have to show them have sex because that's how you know that his sex is better than all his goofy friend's sex because he's in love. They're not in love.

And that's the point of your movie that he finds love. And then you know that because the sex is. great. And I didn't know how to show that. And it was very frustrating. But as a mentor, he kept saying that to me. And then one day, I mentioned it again to Corral. And he said, well, maybe I just break out in song. And I was like, yeah, maybe you just start singing like let the sunshine in from hair or something. But it would have happened, it happened without a mentor. He wasn't the producer, but for me, he was always kind of the producer, Shandling. So I only know what that's like to be the mentor, like, from documentaries I've done. And there's this crucial point in the documentary

when, if they're doing it correctly, the director is really embedded in it and it's just been in the weeds for a while. And they become pretty fragile. And that's where if you have notes coming from seven different directions and you don't have a good process in place that's funneling through one person, and you hit that person when they're in that specific point of fragility and you're like, change this, change that, do this. Like, they'll like unravel. And there's this one moment when it's super delicate. What's that process like when you're making a movie?

Because you've been on both ends of it. You've been the guy in the weeds finishing the movie and you've also been the mentor person. You have to be very, very sensitive and you can't be a control freak and you can't be doing it for your own ego or for your own career. You have to think, I'm here to. assist these people to get to something, and you have to remind yourself what you would want. And sometimes it just doesn't work.

And the whole project does crash and burn. And I'd go as far to say most of the time it doesn't work. And most of the time, the movie isn't made. Because the chemistry isn't right, or they can't crack their story, or I'm not smart enough to help them crack their story. But there's definitely those moments where you can feel, oh, these people want to kill me.

They hate me right now. And I've worked with people where I gave them a set of notes, and they never talk to me ever. Not even off of a fight, just off of wanting to run away. And I understand that because sometimes you feel like this is personal,

get out of my face, and other people really engage the process and they like it. You know, Amy Schumer was like that, Camille and Emily were like that. Pete Davidson was like that. We were writing together, me and Pete. And when you are in sync,

it's the best thing ever. But sometimes it is tough. And I have to make a decision how hard do I want to go with them if I feel like they're going in the wrong direction. And there have been times where I've said, you know what, I'll go with their choice. I totally disagree. But I'm going to go with them. And sometimes they were proven correct. And sometimes the movie was terrible.

And I've had both of those things happen. You know, I've been wrong. You know, I've actually seen old scripts. of movies I've produced with my notes in the margins. And I've gone back and read the notes. And there might be an X through an entire scene. And I think, wow, they shot that scene. And that's everyone's favorite scene.

I was telling you to get rid of it. So you're never perfect. But it is fun when it's working. It worked great with Lena Dunham and Jenny McConnell. We had a great time for seven years, really enjoying that process. to wall. Chris, you've, you've edited a lot of writers over the years. The good news is writers aren't sensitive and don't take stuff personally at all on the internet. So you never had to worry

about any of this. They just take your notes. I obviously don't have any experience with like the notes process when it comes to a movie. But it is say anything such an interesting example of, I think if I remember correctly, the germ of the idea is Brooks's, right? Like he saw a father and a daughter walking across the street and then said to himself, what would happen if that the father was a criminal. And it just shows, you know, how contagious a good idea can be in a lot of ways. And it's so kind of generous of him to think, think of that and then put it in Cameron Crow's hands and work on it with him over the years. And it feels like such a scrutinized, like, interrogated story. That's the thing I love about it the most, is it, even if you at certain

points in your life after like your 30th viewing of this movie are like, I can do without the IRS subplot. You still have to respect how much tension the IRS subplot brings to the surface. And that's the genius of the movie. As a young person,

I didn't understand what the IRS subplot was about. It wasn't the part of the movie that I was attracted to. To me, it was all about falling in love. I love the idea that John Cusack was charming and funny and kind of weird and lost, and he just seemed like the type of character I had never seen on screen before. And in watching it again, I thought, how did they invent this guy? It's such a mix of different

personality quirks. He's both smart, maybe not that smart. He's, I guess, like an army brat of some kind. He keeps talking about how kickboxing is a sport of the future. And he's, you know, he's a, I guess, like an army brat of some kind. He keeps talking about how kickboxing is a sport of the future. and it's meant to be a joke in the movie, but you know what? He was right. It was the sport of the future. He's vindicated.

Maybe he's Dana White or something. Right. He's a billionaire right now. And I thought, wow, I've just never seen this guy before. And you have this perfect, smart, beautiful girl. That was the type of girl I was always in love with. It was exactly the definition of who I would fall in love with.

And just seeing this goofy guy, the guy tried to be charming, try to win her over by being a good guy, that that was important to him to be a good guy, really connected for me. Then when I got older and became a father, when I watched that now, you know, all the issues with the dad, wanting her to do well, wanting to be able to take care of her, losing his sense of what's right and wrong, and how complicated it gets with their relationship. Now that really moves me, and I get what that is because as a parent,

you don't know if you're screwing up and you're terrified of losing their belief in you. So it's really heartbreaking. I remember always being heartbroken by that scene where his credit card is rejected at the luggage store. The one behind the counter is flirting with him, and then as soon as the card isn't working, he just goes white and he's so humiliated.

And he gets in the bathtub and just sits there depressed. And I think we all now, when we get depressed, we go right into the tub because of that. He invented it. Yeah. Yeah. The thing about this movie being 31 years old and when I saw it, which was right after I left high school,

so I'm like 19 or 20, I don't remember. and watching it through Lloyd's eyes. And you're just rooting for Lloyd, you're rooting for him to get the girl, and you're rooting for her to overlook the fact that he really doesn't have any ambition. He's just a good guy. But that now that I'm old, and now that I have a daughter who's 15 and I'm watching this.

And now I'm kind of seeing it halfway through the dad's side. I'm like, yeah, what the fuck? This guy wants to be a kickboxer? I definitely would have wanted this person to date my daughter for too long. And it's just funny on flips. marketing. Why can't you be in marketing? He's totally wrong. He should be marketing. Bill, I'm wondering how much runway a guy who comes to your house and says he doesn't want to buy or sell anything or sell anything that's been processed or process anything that's been bought or sold. How much time you give that guy on stage before you yank him off?

Well, Jed has two daughters older than mine. So he knows that feeling of the guy coming over, which I've only had limited experience with because my daughters only had one boyfriend. but that it catches it so perfectly when Lloyd comes in and he's all like bravado, hey, how you doing? And then it's just like this pause for five seconds. And it's kind of like, is she coming out? Do we have to keep talking now? There's also nothing worse than a guy saying,

all he wants to do is take good care of. Yeah, seriously. Quick background on camera crows, just for the people listening. So he's this Rolling Stone writer in the 70s. prococious, all immortalized and almost famous, and then goes back to high school for Fast Times, Ridgemont High, which becomes the script.

He does not direct that. He actually goes back to high school. Literally goes back to high school. It was a book. And I don't know if he did half a year or a whole year and wrote a book based on what he saw in high school. I mean, when you look at it now, that's criminal. Oh, yeah.

He'd go to jail. By the way, that book, that book's like impot. to find. It's like a very hard, I don't think there's a lot of copies of it out there. But anyway, he has, so he has some cachet. I'm just like, going into the late 80s there. It's like, oh, Cameron

Crow, he wrote Fast Times. I like that guy. Oh, James Brooks. He produced this. Well, I trust him. And then we have to have the QSack conversation. You know, from the sure thing on, which was 1985, he's just in all of these movies. He's better off dead

in one crazy summer. He's I forget, was he shoeless Joe Jackson? No, he was the third baseman and eight men out. He's done sales, yeah. Yeah, he's doing well. We like him. He has the small part and stand by me. Yeah, he's the older brother.

He's also going way back. He was in class. That was his first movie. But he's been there for six, seven years. I think his approval rating was really high. The only one who didn't really have, we didn't have a background with was Ione's Guy. She'd only been in a couple things.

but I just remember being excited. You're not talking about better off dead. And better off dead. Yeah, that was the other one. Yeah. I know he was in one with Stiller. I don't know if it was Better Off Dead or there's, there was tapeheads was in there too at some point.

Tapads is fantastic. People don't talk about tape heads enough with him and Tim Robbins. Don't get me started on the greatness of tape heads. And my friends, Steve Higgins and Dave Higgins and maybe Dave Allen, who were called Don't Quit Your Day Job back then. But now Steve Higgins is, you know, the producer of Saturday Night Live. and Dave Higgins has been on everything

and Gruber was Mr. Rosso and freaks and geeks, but they were in tape pads and when I was really young and friends of them, I couldn't believe anyone could be in a movie. Right. They were in tapads. That was incredible. Cusack, after this movie,

I feel like he's in A-List or after this, or at least like he's, people know him, he's on the way up. He beats out, that step on casting what ifs, beats out Christian Slater for this role. Chris, what's Christian Slater like and say anything? I think he's too close to the pump up the volume, Heather's

like James Dean character. It's hard for me to imagine him capturing the really quick twitch neurosis that Cusack has in this movie because Slater is just kind of so effortlessly cool at this time. Yeah. And Robert Donnie Jr. turned this down. Yeah. That's pretty wild. Robert Donnie Jr. turned it down. And

I think that the first time I saw John Cusack was in 16 Candles as one of the nerds. Right. Yeah. Right. This is about as long of a stretch somebody has had from appearances in high school movies. You go from 83 to 89. That's like six and a half years because he becomes an adult in other movies.

Now he's circling back. He's back in high school. But you know the coolest thing about this is that if you look at all of these movies together, all the high school movies are those teen movies that he did, it kind of feels like a generation of people like sort of, with him and then graduated with say anything. And this is our graduation too. It's like we're kind of getting into the adult world.

We're leaving the 80s behind and kind of, you know, grunge is about to happen. We're going towards the 90s in Seattle. And it does feel like there is an arc to his career. And there was an arc to the people watching those movies. I related to him. Even when he did the grifters, that's when I was going through my grifting period.

Yeah, of course. I was doing my long cons. I felt the same way, Chris. I felt like this is the graduation movie of the 80s movies. I think that's a good way to put it. Because then you go into the 90s and it starts getting weird. And then there's a big comeback in the late 90s where they start making the same type of movies we made in the 80s. But, you know, that's when we enter the 10 Things I Hate About You.

What's the one with Jennifer Love Hewitt, the last night of high school? We haven't done it on. Can't Hardly Wait. Can't hardly wait. Yeah, you have all those movies and it just kind of goes from there. Well, he was very symbolic of a certain kind of guy. You know, like when I went to high school, I wasn't an athlete. I wasn't a super nerd.

There were those people who were right in the middle. And he always felt like one of those people to me. Everyone kind of liked him. And, you know, he wasn't going to be the quarterback. He wasn't going to be on the debate team. just, you know, he was in his own space. And I felt that the same thing when I saw The Shore Thing with John Kusag.

And that was, you know, you really could live vicariously through him because for me, I thought, well, I'm not really attractive or unattractive. I'm kind of in the middle, and Kuzak's much more attractive than me, but it was always playing like a guy that no one would really go like hubba, hubba, out. And it was always about him using his humor and his charm to get certain people, women to like him.

And that was somebody that we would all look up to who lived in that purgatory. Well, Cameron Crow, credits. We always, at the beginning of the rewatchable, before we do the categories, we always find out what Roger Ebert's take of the movie was. Sometimes it's horrific, sometimes it's dead on. He was not a big fan of mine from many a film.

Oh, he has a lot of misses. Cameron Crowe credits the enthusiastic review on Siskel and Ebert as at least partially saving the movie at the box office. Ebert wrote one of the best films of the year, a film that is really about something that cares deeply about the issues it contains. And yet it also works wonderfully as a funny, warm-hearted romantic comedy. Not bad for Maraj. Better than he gave me on heavyweights, that's for sure. he killed you on heavyweights he killed me on heavy weights he killed me on the cable guy

and I always remember Siskel loved the cable guy and I framed it and I was like who needs Ebert I got Siskel well we had what was the Tommy boy the one we did recently that was one of Ebert's most hated movies of 1995 he just hated Chris Farley in it didn't get it yeah there was something about comedy

that he missed but this was a was that you Chris who was talking about how the reviewers don't understand the purpose of those movies were you on the Tommy boy? That was Sean probably. I thought that he was very eloquent about that reviewers sometimes

don't understand why those movies are made, how they're made their purpose, the simplicity of storytelling sometimes, or even the goofiness of the story. They're looking for, you know, the hours, but

the people aren't trying to make the hours. They're trying to make Tommy Boy. Yeah. And my buddy, Fred Wolf, wrote that movie, and Pete Siegel was the director. And they were doing a lot of writing, like, on the set, fixing it. But there's something about that last-minute fix that sometimes leaves the funniest, most memorable things you've ever seen. And I think all of us in comedy, we always feel like sometimes critics don't understand

what we're even trying to do. well you see that with the Oscars too right I mean think about some of the best most successful movies ever just get completely ignored year after year at the Oscars this is well I don't think that there's a high value put on silly yeah for a lot of people

you know for a deer in the car but to me what's better than a deer in the car there's so many ways to make people cry but how many people can of a genius way to get a deer in a car and be hilarious or, you know, put on a small jacket. I mean, there is an art to that that is dismissed because when it works, it seems kind of effortless off of the top of your head.

But, you know, it's really hard to think of a great joke. It's really hard to tear down the house. Well, yeah, I think, you know, they don't have the Oscars, but they have the rewatchables for some of these movies. That became the Oscar when... When we deem your movie rewatchable worthy, it kind of replaces it. I think a lot of ways. I'll tell you something that applies here, which is I was having a lunch, which I treasured that I was able to have lunch with Mike Nichols a few times.

And he said, you know, comedies don't get any awards. But that's okay because people watch those movies over and over and over again. It's true. That's really the reward of it is that they're just seen. I mean, people will watch Tommy Boy more than they will watch Schindler's list. Or million-dollar baby is another good example. That movie won like seven Oscars or whatever, and it's like nobody would ever want to watch it a second time,

but Tommy Boy is going to live on for eternity. It is funny how this stuff gets treated. Let's take a break to talk about Roman. if you've been dealing with acne, redness, dark spots, or wrinkles, finding treatment that works can be complicated. You need skincare that actually performs, but getting started can be overwhelming. Thankfully, there's a solution. Roman makes it convenient to get customized prescription skincare that really performs. Grab your phone or computer, complete a free online consultation, you'll hear back from a U.S. licensed physician within 24 hours. If appropriate, a doctor will prescribe a custom-bended

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By the way, I'm going to rip through all my rewatchable scenes. And if I left anything out, chime in at the end. First one, Diane finally calls Lloyd back. Now, I could technically go opening credits for most rewatchable scene, which we've done from time to time when him telling his friends, I'm going to call her. So I'll let you guys decide. I would do that, yeah. You'd put that at that one?

Absolutely. Diancourt doesn't go out with guys like you. She's a brain. Trapped in the body of a game show hostess. Diane court does not realize how good looking she is. This sounds great to me, man. I'm going to call it. That's what's cool about her. Brains stay with brains. The bomb could go off and their mutant genes would form the same clicks. I wouldn't get my hopes up, Lloyd. I'm sorry. It's just you're a really nice guy and we don't want to see you get hurt.

I want to get hurt. I like it. It's just such a weird way to start a movie. And I got to be honest, in 1989, there weren't a lot of movies where it's like the protagonist is like, here are my three female friends that I'm going to bounce this idea off of it. This might have actually been the first movie that even played that card. Not only that, they actually seem like friends. Yeah. And he lays out the entire movie in that scene. It's like, you know exactly who Lloyd is. You know exactly what he wants. And you know exactly what he's going to do to get it. And they're, and they set up the stakes of the movies so well in that.

in that cold open. All right. So we got that. And Pamela Adelon. Unbelievable. Yeah. Right. Had no idea for until I did the research for this movie.

It just never clicked with me for some reason that she's in that. Crazy. Yeah. So she's one of the three friends if you're listening. That was, I mean, that's an amazing, amazing scene.

And it's also, you know, them questioning, you know, if he had a shot with her. They all, you know, describe her.

And that was, you know, such a great idea for a character. You know, the girl who was gorgeous but really obsessed with schoolwork who didn't hang out with anybody the whole time. And that would be the goal. Could I be the person that she would talk to? Right. She hasn't talked to anybody. And she has a great speech in the opening of the movie,

the great graduation speech, and her joke bombs and only her dad laughed. Yeah. And then at the end, she was. she just says, I'm afraid of the future. And it's just a great, great moment. Are you asking me what my favorite procedure is? I'm going to go. I'm going to rip through this. Oh, you're doing all of them.

No, I got eight. Diane calls Lloyd back. And he has to scramble, going to the bathroom, and he's trying to get her to do a date. She can. Great landline anxiety. Oh, yeah. She's busy.

You're busy. Are you monumentally busy? And just that whole. And then all of a sudden by the end, she's going on the party and his reaction after and all that stuff. Really great. Are you busy on Saturday? Saturday I have something to do around the house. So you're monumentally busy?

Well, not monumentally. What about tonight, Dan? Can you go to that party, Delears? Look, Dan, I'm sorry, but I can't allow you to leave the country without attending. The year's graduation of that. This gentleman is 22. comes out hiding once a year for this occasion. And he dresses up as the lakeside rooster.

And he makes this drink called the Purple Passion. Actually, I think that... You know, and you're not in England yet. I have to say that I stole... Let's call it an homage so it feels less like stealing in the 40-year-old virgin with Catherine Keener and he's in the bathroom flipping out. Oh!

That is a straight-on homage slash theft. Excellent. Well, just so you know, 40-year-old version is on the rewatchable schedule because you got a 15th anniversary coming up. You can tell from my beard that that many years have passed. The next scene, I'm just going to tell you guys now is my favorite scene in the movie, the party. I'm just calling the scene the party, even though there's seven scenes within the party. I had just never seen a movie, a scene like this in a movie before. somebody that accurately hammered home what a party was actually like, how it would be weird, how you'd have different rooms,

you'd have the fucking Lily Taylor room where she's just singing weird songs about Joe, and you have the laundry room where there's beer, and people are probably hooking up in there, and you have outdoors, and you have a guy dressed up like a fucking bird. Who's Eric Stoltz? Eric Stoltz. You have Key Man, and just all of it is just, even 31 years later, I was shocked by how good is this. Chris, is this your, is this the, the founding father of party scenes, in your opinion?

It's so dead perfect. Like, even, even, like, the, the flourishes, like, when Piven runs up to him and demands his keys and he's like, you must chill! You know, it's just like they feel like they actually did go to high school together. That's the crazy thing is that when he walks in and everybody's kind of checking her out and seeing that she's with Lloyd and they can't believe it. and they've got their yearbooks there. But yeah, I mean, I can't tell if this movie was the perfect encapsulation of what high school parties were like or it invented high school parties, and we just had parties like that afterwards. For years, I used to just go, Louis Dabber.

All right. Well, you've had been involved in different movies that use settings like this. It's so hard. There's a hundred people in it, and people are going through different rooms. And it's funny because he basically steals from himself when he has the almost famous scene, Cameron Crow,

when Billy Cruttop's character decides to go to party in Kansas and ends up at that high school party in the 70s house and ends up jumping off the roof. But it's got to be so hard to navigate that correctly, right? Where you're kind of navigating around a party so it feels like a party. It's so hard because if you have extras, atmosphere, You know, you have people there who, you know, they're not necessarily going to give you the best performance. So you're very nervous as you shoot your leads walking past people that might be doing something great,

but also might just be staring directly in the camera. That's what it always makes me afraid about having 25 people in the background is, what are they doing? Do they look fake? Are they talking in a way that looks fake? Is there any way to capture the relaxed behavior of, a bunch of, you know, 17 and 18-year-olds without it seeming so phony. The clothes can be so wrong. The song at the party can be so wrong.

It's really tricky. We did a scene like that in freaks and geeks where they replaced the, the geeks replaced the keg with a keg of near beer. And then at the party, everyone acts drunk and they know that no one is drunk. Right. And terrified the whole time that it wouldn't look like a real party. So that is a fantastic one. and then there's the kid that they drive home.

Mike Cameron, yeah. It's a great, yeah, great little cherry on the Sunday of that whole thing. They're driving it for like three hours. And then there's the great moment where she sings all the songs about Joe. That'll never be me. That'll never be me. That'll never be me. And I don't know if I'd ever seen anything that funny and specific and war.

and inventive before in a movie about people who were a couple of years younger than me. You just remembered that bit for the rest of your life. Yeah, let's talk about Joe lies a little bit because this is when it unfolds. Now, they set it up earlier because she's going to the party. The mom's like, don't talk to Joe or whatever. So it's just kind of, it's just like kind of sprinkled in there. And you don't know what it means. and then it manifests itself.

I think that's some of the funniest shit that's ever been in a high school movie. The relationship with Joe, it's unbelievable. That'll never be me. That'll never be me. And he's like an idiot when Kusack talks to him about it. Like, don't hurt her.

He's like, no, I love her. I save all the tapes. You're going to do something one day. And you realize, like, she's just in love with the biggest moron, which is what high school is about, not realizing how terrible the person is that you like. And it's also like heartbreaking.

Like you're aware, oh, this probably consumed this girl for years. I love that detail. It might be one of the best parts about this movie that almost every character could support their own movie. Like I would watch the Corey movie. And they're written as that. Like Corey's backstory, Corey's like her personality and the way that she's kind of self-involved and her friends are like, you always make it about Joe and yourself.

Like, that's its own movie. And you can see that in just that quick 35, 45 seconds of her singing to Joe and Joe sees her. Joe has such a great reappearance later in the movie. But yeah, I just thought, like, that party reveals where you're like, oh, man, every one of these people is so well thought out and well drawn. And then he wants to have sex with her. Right. He has her to have sex. And it's like it instantly frees her.

Yeah. But she could blow him off. That's all she needs to. It was really realistic for how 80s parties goes, as somebody who went to a few of them in my day, where you would just have these different rooms that different things were going on. And I'm not saying it's not like that. But it was really like you just kind of showed up at a party and you kind of drifted to wherever your area was. And that was it.

And if there was a basement, well, you go down there. Go ahead, Chris. No, the best part about the party, too, is that Lloyd and Diane split up as soon as they get there, which is what happens at parties, whether you were going on a date or not. Like, you go in. I go to parties now with my wife, and it's like, I'll see you in three hours. You're not going to stay. You might try to kind of stand with the people you came with for a little while to kind

of get your bearings. But for the most part, you're like, yeah, I'll see you at the end of the night and we'll recap. That's the fun part. And there's subtle stuff going on too, because I think if you look at the high school party scenes in the 80s, it's always over the top. It's like long duck dong falling out of a tree. and, you know, can't buy me love the girl. She's wearing the white link.

Somebody throws wine on it. And it's never realistic. This, even the little stuff, like she's singing those Joe songs. And there's just two obviously stoned out of their mind kids just staring at her. We never see them get stone. They're just kind of like zoned out. Like it's like, like Joni Mitchell singing to them or something. Little though those kids know that there will be a person at a party for the next six years of their life with a guitar.

So they didn't need to pay attention to that time. All right. So that's one. Then we got, oh, I should mention the Super Bad Party scene, I think is like this scene almost like the on steroids. Well,

that was the scene where Jonah Hill dances with Carla, with Carly Gallo gets a period blood stain on his leg. And we have been trying to get that movie made for so many years and no one would make it. And I would say to the guys like, You think it's the period blood thing? Do you think the second they get to that page?

It just reads so crazy. And then when we shot the movie, I said to Matola, you have to shoot some sort of bridge moment so that if that is not funny, we can cut it out. Because if it doesn't work, it really will not work. Right. You can't get out of it. That's an all or nothing thing.

And then we showed it for the first time in Burbank, the AMC in Burbank. and the place exploded. It was the best screening of any movie we ever worked on. Wow. And as a favor, the person who came and watched it was Cameron Crow. Oh, man.

And he went to the theater and he got to see that. And just as a friend, the best guy ever came to the super bad test screening. And it was pandemonium. But yeah, you do get really afraid with certain joke swings that if they don't work, they can sink the entire movie, not just that moment, but it turns the audience against you,

yeah. Yeah. And to this day, I still don't understand why it didn't turn the audience against the movie. Well, it's producer Craig's number one choice

for a rewatchable, and we've been lording it over him, almost like the last piece of cake or something. I don't know when we do it. We might never do it. We just kind of keep it in the back pocket. More scenes, more rewatchable scenes.

We didn't even get it. to this one yet. Lloyd goes to dinner with Diane's family. This is the I don't want to sell anything buy anything or process anything as a career. I thought about this quite a bit, sir, and I would have to say, considering what's waiting out there for me, I don't want to sell anything, buy anything anything or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed or buy anything sold or processed or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought or process. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that. So my father's the army. He wants me to join, but I can't work for that corporation.

So what I've been doing lately is kickboxing. Just the whole concept of, so Lloyd, what are you up to? And he's like, and he launches this speech and then he's like, I'm really into kickboxing. It's the sport of the future. Oh, that's great. The next one, Lloyd telling his friends, the female friends that they had sex. and Lily Taylor doing that thing like you're always going to have this when you're 60 you'll be thinking about it'll be the only thing you think of

not untrue by the way but that one really solid all right all right calm down nothing's different Lloyd listen to me everything has changed you've had sex no matter what you might think

nothing will ever be the same between you two you might be 60 you might be walking down the street and you'll talk to her about something, whatever. But what you'll really be thinking is, we had sex. How about what she tells her dad, she had sex? That's not one of my most rewatching of the scenes.

That's kind of my nightmare, actually. What she tells John Mahoney. And John Mahoney's acting in the whole movie is off the charts. He's such a genius. But the look at his face and she starts saying that John Quesick wants to have sex with her. And basically she says, you know, I decided not to. And then he's so relieved. And she goes, but then I decided to do it.

Right. Then I jumped him. I jumped him. And it's such a good scene. Yeah, she does the thing about, you know, the guys, they get that look, they get that look in their eye. So Lloyd goes to see his guy friends after he gets dumped. Iconic.

It's his parody of, I think, toxic masculinity basically, but the bitches man and spend your money and they tell your friends everything and they're just like spouting out these dumbass clichés. It's hilarious. I don't know if there's a line in American movie history that quite captures the relationship people have to their piece of shit high school car

the way when Joe goes, dissed in the Malibu! Oh, man. Dissed in the Malibu. It's your castle, man. You never had a chance with a girl like that. I, like, immediately think of my, my mom's Toyota Corolla's silver hatchback that I called the silver bullet. The starter didn't work.

The, like, there was cat hair in it. The air conditioner smelled weird. I loved that car so much. That's your castle, man. Like, I loved it. The funny thing about the movie is, you know, it's, you know, it's, you. It's very pro-women. It's hilariously aware of how lame and awful young men can be.

And I think on some level, one thing I took from it unconsciously, just how hilariously awful your friend group can be. So if you see knocked up and Seth is hanging with all his friends and they're trying to start a website that just shows you the naked scenes and commercial movies. Right. And they're just all talk and fantasizing about it and pitching around. And they're just such idiots. And part of the movie is you have to outgrow these people.

You need to go to the next place. And a lot of times these people will not be with you when you finally grow up. That's what I always thought about, the gas and sip scene. Yeah. He's trying so hard to get good advice from his friends. And he gets the worst advice in the world. you find someone that looks just like her and then you have sex with her

and that I'm sure somewhere programmed my head that's Romany Malco the 40-year-old virgin just the friends with the worst advice that you need to get away from well not to spoil your new movie

because it's an opening scene but Pete's friends in your new movie aren't exactly like the greatest crew you mean my new movie the King of Staten Island coming to VOD June 12. How is that generic break?

But yeah, I would say that friend crew isn't fantastic. No, and the new movie is a little more serious. It's a comedy, but it takes its drama much more seriously. And you really feel like with this, you know, a similar kind of friend group, these are the friend group. This is the friend group that is going to take you to hell. Like you're going to run into jail if you don't get away from these guys. Yeah.

Two more scenes. The boom box scene, which I'm, I want to come back to. Diane confronts her dad. Not necessarily rewatchable. Oh, cool. This scene is on, but it's just a really good scene. She sends QSack first.

He talks to her. John Mahoney's like so mad. It's Lloyd as the representative and not his daughter. And then she finally shows up. I think that is an incredible scene. The scene is the prison. Upon rewatching it, I was just so blown away. And as a writer, I couldn't admire Cameron Crowe,

he really finds a way to be completely real and authentic and warm and funny and he goes deep and he'll go to pain you know very uh courageously and what I love about that scene is John Mahoney hates John Cusack in that scene

I mean you really see it in his eyes and it's a little scary because you know through the whole movie he's pretending to be charming or he is charming and he seems like a warm guy and then you see there's a real darkness to this person he's smoking he's smoking

now. He's tough from prison, but you do get, like, this is the kind of guy who would rip off elderly people and find a rationalization for it. And he's so furious at Cusack, and then he gives him the letter from his daughter,

and instantly Lloyd is rooting for the letter to make him feel better, even though he was just so mean to him. Right. And it's an amazing piece of writing, which is, because Mahoney's reading the letter really fast. And Quesack's like,

no, there's some good stuff coming. There's some good stuff coming. If it's the one that ends with, no matter what, I'll always love you. And then they jump to the end of the letter to see if it's the nicer version of the letter. And he goes, oh, it's just signed with her name. And then QSack has the great final monologue.

Just knowing a version like that exists. Knowing that for a minute she felt that and Ron, I still can't help loving you. That's got to be a good thing, right? It's got to be a good thing. Isn't it great that that exists? You know that's out there. Wow.

That is such a... It's such a great writing. It also reminds me of the writing of James Brooks. These beautiful grace notes and these great, funny, unique lines. That one is just a killer. Anything else on that, Chris? No, I love the fact that Lloyd also is like...

He gives him the letter, but Lloyd is like speed up. I've read this part already. It's like, Lloyd, back up, man. It's my daughter. When he screams at Lloyd, he's like, he's like, I am incarcerated.

I do not deserve to lose my daughter over this. It's just great. Also, it's a very interesting tone for the last three minutes of a movie. I mean, it really goes to true rage. It gets a little out of control, like 90 seconds before the movie. ends. It's like, this is real. He's in jail. This is awful. And then she comes and she can't help

but give him a hug and then she gives him the pen, which is a nice, nice moment too. Last, last rewatchable scene. The ending's really great. And it was interesting to watch with my daughter who didn't understand the, the, you can smoke on the airplane beep, like what that even meant? But I was like, what's the beep? Why do they have beeps on an airplane? We're like, well, back then you could smoke on an airplane. I think the beep is the, you could take your seatbelt off. And smoke, right?

Yeah, I think in the movie it's still smoking. It's, I think it says no smoking. So you can take your seatbelt off and smoke. Yeah, it's a combo. You can get up and smoke. Yeah. Because back then, if you were in the non-smoking area, right.

It was still filled with smoke. That was the funniest when they tried to have non-smoking, but it's like one, foot from the smoking section. Disgusting. This is a really good ending and kind of like really memorable. If you had a picture of that in your office of just them looking up, people would know right away what it was. It's really good. It's very James Brooksie too. I don't know if it was his idea or whatever, but it just feels like something that would have happened in his movies. I feel like it's up there. It's like obviously the graduate has an incredible ending. As far as like

movies about romantic relationships. Like, graduates kind of in its own class. And then there's this. And before sunset, you're going to miss that plane. And I may be kicking and screaming. And then this ending as far as like my favorite endings to like a romantic movie like this. This is why we like each other, Chris. I like all of those as well.

I hope you're talking about the kicking and screaming starring Will Ferrell. Yes. Yeah. Ha. We're doing the Bomb Back one. What do you have for most rewatchable scene? For me? Yeah.

I think, let's see, off the top of my head, you know, when they have sex in the car, you know, it's a really incredible scene. And there's this weird detail which is suddenly he just starts shivering afterwards. And you don't even know what to make of it. It's just it's so powerful for him emotionally that he just starts coming apart at the scenes. And they're so good together. they're acting is so incredible, and it's so sweet that I always think about that scene. I mean,

I like probably all the scenes that people wouldn't put on their rewatchable list. I love her talking to the guy, to Joe Don Baker, the guy from the FBI who's... Philip Baker Hall, yeah, yeah. Philo Baker is the guy from Walking Tall. Yeah.

I was like, he's in this? But Philip Baker Hall and her, and she's like begging for mercy for her dad after he gets caught stealing money from everyone at the nursing home. And him just laying out everything that he did. And he's telling her, here's what you should look for. Does he have these types of items? Does he have a lot of things that don't cost too much money? Does he have a lot of rugs? I like, does he have a lot of rugs?

Yeah. Because clearly it's all the items when these people die. He somehow steals them. That was a scene that was great. What's the profile? Well, take a look around the house. Is everything nice, but not too nice? There are a lot of rugs, pieces of art,

stereo equipment, furniture, a lot of things bought with cash. Does he give a lot of gifts? Do the major items in your house hover around the $9,000 range? You're trying to get me to say something. That's why you're telling me all of this. Plus, we got to find out that Philip Baker Hall wasn't always 59 years old.

I know. He looked a little young. Yeah, it's weird to see a younger. It's like, I was watching. the thing the other day, and Wilford Brimley's in it, and he's actually a little bit younger than normal Wilford Brimley. It's like just a hair younger than he was in the firm. Yeah. You were 39

once? That's insane. Chris, what's your most rewatchable scene? It's the party. It's the party all the way up to when they drop Mike Cameron off because it's a really great depiction of the best night of someone's life. Yeah. All right. What's age the best? How about

let me say one more? Okay. The breakup scene when she dumps him and she dumps him like 20 seconds after he says I love you. He thinks it's the moment when they're going to say I love you. Right. She dumbs him and his reaction

is, oh, I feel like a dick. Right. I must think I'm a dick. No, I don't. I don't. Yeah, you do. Well, we shared the most intimate thing to people can share.

I shared it with a dick. No, I didn't. It's so, it's so, accurate to what someone would say at that age. And it's so devastating. But that's a great scene, really well-performing. And the whole montage of him depressed, talking into his tape recorder in the rain is how I felt for about two years of high school.

I'm still there. What's age the best? So mention the opening credits. Don't talk to Joe mentioned that one. How about John and Joan Cusack playing siblings? in a movie. Just like gross point blank, yeah. Chris knows this, Jed,

but one of my favorite things is when real-life siblings play siblings in a movie. I'm always there. I'm still pissed at Rudy and Kate Mare haven't been in a movie together. I just feel like there's some extra level of something there that they kind of look alike

and you just know they have a backstory and I always like it. So I don't know. That's why I put Iris and Maude Apatow in a bunch of movies. Yeah, you did. They've been in like five of them. John Mahoney as the insanely proud dad who finds out about the Reed Fellowship, as an insanely proud dad from time to time.

I identify that now. It's been a wood age the best for me personally. It's like, oh, I get it when you're just out of your mind excited for one. I could also see you driving around listening to Ricky, don't lose that number. Oh, no question. I just did it yesterday. Well, it's like those reaction videos where, you know, now kids videotape themselves and their families when they go online. to see if they got into Yale or something.

And then they post online them screaming and flipping out. It's like a version of that. We mentioned a lot of the Woods Age the best, but just so weird that Lauren Dean, Pamela Adlon, B.B. Newworth, Jeremy Pivot, and Eric Stoltz are just randomly in this movie and non-essential roles, just sprinkled through. I thought someone said Stone Gossard had a cameo in this movie as a cab driver.

Yeah, he's like a cab driver. Yeah, he's in there too. And then another what's age the best for me. I like when movies organically say the title during the movie. Yeah. Where he goes, you could say anything to me. And it's just like, oh, cool, the title. There it is.

Any other what's age the best for you guys? You got to say the music, especially Peter Gabriel in your eyes and the replacements within your reach, which both get played a couple of times. Isn't a great living color song in there? Yeah, and Fishbone and Red Hot Chilipvers. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought it was really great. it's error appropriate, but it's also

within your region and your eyes are two of like the best love songs of my life time. It's like Grunge is going to start in about 15 minutes, but it hasn't started yet. Yeah. Yeah, so he makes this movie, it comes out in 89, but they're probably making an 88. So he misses

that music window by like a year. I think if they, even if they make this movie nine months later. It's the college rock movie. It's like 86. 87, yeah. Well, I have this. See, I have that in what's age the worst, too. As much as I like some of the music, I felt like we were,

I wanted two more songs from that really weird late 80s era. They could have worked a Fugazi song in here, right? I don't think Fugazi was selling their songs at that point. You don't think so? They would have snuffed. I don't think they are anymore. I don't think they are now either, yeah. I remember talking to Amy Heckerling once and she was telling me that when they'd made

Fast Time to Ridge by High, one of the fights was she really was trying to use much more hardcore music. And they just They wound up using a lot of just California What the great California rock bands Were at that time And she was, you know,

looking to You know, some of the great punk punk bands in there Morewood's age to worse The MMA equipment Really primitive Lloyd's gloves

They just kind of look like they were She found them on a prison yard or something They don't really have all the cool stuff they have now All right, the boom box scene. So this is the iconic scene from the movie. And even when Peter Gabriel played at the Hollywood Bowl, three, four years ago, Kusak came out holding the boom box. I'm giving it age the worst.

Not because I'm down on the scene. It's just I think it was so much more impactful for whatever reason the first couple years of this movie. And now it's kind of not as impactful. Like I think if anyone under 30, they're like, what's he holding? Does that thing play music? machine. Is he holding a robot? Is that some sort of giant robot? What is that? Why is he doing that? Why is he outside? It's much more confusing than I think it was in 1989, right? Yeah. The thing it's funny is, do you guys ever have this where you remember a scene and it's become so, you know, it's become such a

part of pop culture that you kind of forget the context around the scene? Like, I almost forgot that he plays the song and it's not like she comes outside to say hi. You know what I mean? She doesn't even look out the window. Yeah, she's just like, oh, yeah. She just, like, turns away. Like, does she know he's out there? But she literally doesn't even, like, sneak a peek at the window. Yeah, for some reason, he's in a park.

Yes, it's a little bit weird because it doesn't look like the outdoor part of her house at all. It looks like he's standing in in Griffith Park or something. And also, let's not forget that in terms of what ages and what doesn't age, that is still one of the best songs of all time. You know, if you put on headphones and crank that song up, there's almost nothing that really compares to it. It's great. And it was the best possible use of it too.

Which you see songs get used in movies, but this was really like, it's almost hard to separate that song from that scene. I think the scene's almost bigger than the movie. Because if you say to somebody, have you seen say anything? they might be like, uh, and you're like, the boom box movie. Right.

Oh, yeah, sure. And the story you see online is that they were trying to clear the song. And for some reason, Peter Gabriel thought that they were trying to clear it for the movie Wired about John Belushi. Right. He said no, because he thought, say anything, was the Wired movie, who I guess was probably also trying to clear it. I think they sent him the wrong screener. Yeah. Something like that.

Yeah, there's, there's another semifference. my age the worst of just this whole era, late 80s, early 90s, of guys trying to win girls back by just calling them a hundred times and standing outside their house and all that. It just wouldn't fly anymore in movies. People would be like,

talking was so in back then. It really was. Talk your way into someone's heart. Amelia Estevez and Sino Most Fire. She follows Andy McDowell all the way three hours to the ski lodge. That's like the pickup artist is just downy chasing people up and down the street

trying to get on dates. Yeah. Yeah. It's very unique to that. Casting What Ifs. We mentioned a lot of them. Cusack beat out Christian Slater, as we talked about. Downey turned it down. Jennifer Connolly and Elizabeth Shoe both auditioned for Diane. Pamela Adlon, she auditioned for the role of the other friend, which is played by James

Brooks's daughter, right? Amy Brooks. Yeah. Julia Roberts also considered for that role. Ended up going to Amy Brooks. And then this is crazy. Before he cast John Mahoney as Diane's father, Dick Van Dyke expressed interest of the role

to the point where he met with Crow and James Brooks to discuss the screenplay. That would have been unbelievable. Because there was a dark side to Dick Van. Oh, yeah. I'm sure that if you really went through everything he ever did, there was some incredible TV movie where he played an evil guy or something. but that would have been really interesting to see.

I'm glad it didn't happen because I think Mahoney was great. And Mahoney's, he's great in reality bites. And then finally, his victory lap becomes Frazier. But I mean, he'd had a really good career and then Frazier happens. Sure. How about a diner and tin men? Yeah. The Emmys from Frazier were kind of like the cherry and the Sunday for him.

And you mentioned Lawrence Kasten was set to direct but dropped out. That would have been weird. I can't imagine him directing this. The one other casting, what if was Dreyfus, had read the script for the part that Mahoney did. Right.

And wanted to be Lloyd. Yeah. Who is this guy that you're dating right now? I'm watching. Take the panties off of the shower rod. I'm getting in the bathtub. I almost have an impression.

You're on the right podcast. Don't worry. Best. best that guy a.k. the Joey Pants Award after Joe Panelliano. Best that guy. Mike Cameron. That guy. The guy in the car at the end of the party that they have to drive around. He's just

one of those guys. I know that guy. So this is almost like a real life Joey Pants thing where it's like a type of person that you know rather than oh. No, I'm saying that guy is that guy, right? The actor? Yeah. What about Joe? The guy who played Joe. He's in some other stuff. He's in tons of stuff. Yeah.

I feel like he's Lorne Dean, though. I don't think he's, because remember that Billy Bathgate, he was thrown in the promo for it. It was like, Dustin Hoppin, blah, blah, blah, and Lorne Dean. But yeah, he's, he's bounced around. I think he's Lorne Dean. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got, a word for overacting. Piven is really dials it up in the party scene. I mean, to astonishing degrees.

He scales it back later when he comes back. but in the party scene, that's about as dialed up as it gets. So that would be my pick. Do you guys disagree? I'm going Piven. Give me my firebird key! You must chill!

You must chill! I love you, man. All right. I love you too. Go to sleep. We're full-arm buzz. All right. I was always a fan of the Piven Heat in that moment

because, man, when I was in high school, half that party was at Piven Love. this by the way is what would you say it's 80% compliment 20% insulting Chris for this award a little bit because we like when people dial it up but we also have to commemorate it um and then the diane waiters award for best heat check so this is somebody who's not in the movie that much but when they're in it's a complete heat check i don't just FY, Lily Taylor, not eligible. I think she's in too many scenes.

Too many scenes. Okay. She's in like eight scenes. All right. So really it's down to Piven, Stoltz, and Mike Cameron, I think would be the three. So I actually, I personally, I really like Stoltz. What is he in the movie for four minutes? And he's like 22, right?

Like he just hangs out. Yeah, and throws parties. Yeah. And someone who was saying that he was a PA on the movie, he wanted to learn more about filmmaking and asked if he could just be the, PA. So even though he was a rising star from the movie mask, he was the guy getting them all coffee and running around doing errands and then I guess they put him in the bird costume. I love Stoltz and I love that he's this guy in Say Anything and then in singles, he's the

mime. Right. I'll tell you who you guys are forgetting. Who? Joan Cusack's son. Yes. Oh. Who is a total scenes dealer. Every shot of him, he's tracking the action, happy, sad. He's so sweet. He's so funny when they're saying all the lines to the commercial for the soul music. I remember when I first saw the movie, I'm like, that is like the definition of how great a tiny kid can be.

You know how hard it is to get a performance out of a five-year-old? Right. That's a good one. Do you think that kid was really mad that he aged out before Jerry McGuire? You know, I don't know if it timed out right for him. He was furious. He didn't even get a call. He definitely auditioned and was like, I can play young.

I'll play younger. They were like, no, you're 13. This is going to work. The recasting catch, we recast, this is the next category. Recast one part of the movie. I don't think I would recast anything in this movie. I actually really like everybody in the movie, and I don't have any really issues.

Chris, you agree? Yeah, this is one of those perfectly cast movies ever. Yeah, I'm good with this cast. Yeah. What about the principal? Oh, yeah. And then this girl said, hey, world, here I come. All right.

All right, that's a good. That would be a good nominee. Half-ass internet research. Couple things. The Dojo featured in this movie was featured in one other movie, The Karate Kid. Don Dragon.

Was that Don Dragon? Yeah. Don the Dragon, what? What was he? Don the Dragon Wilson. That was who, uh, so QSack did kickboxing scenes with him. This led to QSack's three plus decade obsession with kickboxing. Apparently he's still kickboxes.

And he's like, whatever the highest belt is of kickboxers. So don't fuck with John QSack, if you learned anything from this podcast. We all love that big kickboxing sequence in City Hall. Right. Can you guess? I'll give either of you $100 if you can guess the exact model of the boom box that Lloyd held over his head. Sanio. I know it's a Sanio.

Chris? I was going to say like a Samsung or a Sony. But what is it? It's a Tashiba RTSX-1. So, yeah, really the perfect year for the boombox. That was like when they were really like a little too big. but at some point, Chris, we should do the history of boomboxes in 80s movies, going back to Bad Boys with Sean Penn.

Just best use of a boombox, yeah, all that stuff. You mentioned Stone Gossard. So Cameron Crow commissioned the smithereens to write the movie's theme song. They came up with a girl like you. Cameron Crow thought the lyrics were too leading and outlined the entire plot too clearly, so he rejected a girl like you, which then still became a smithereens song. their biggest hit. That was the biggest

smithereen song. So I thought Cameron Crowe gets some credit for that. I love the smithereens, by the way. Yeah. For all you people out there, go on iTunes and check out the smithereens' greatest hits.

They're kind of awesome from New Jersey, I believe. Apex Mountain, where we decided this was the absolute apex of somebody's career. I'm going to say yes for Ione's sky because this is the best character she ever played, right?

I think that's pretty fair to say. John Cusack, I don't even really know what his apex was because it feels like he just keeps resurfacing with major things every time you think maybe maybe the maybe had the run. And then, you know, like high fidelity. It was in 2000. It's 11 years after this movie. What would you say for him? So part of Apex Mountain is when somebody not only peak performance or one of their best performances, but also when they had their most juice. and they're their most juice to like coming out of this project,

they could get anything done with the next project. Well, no one in show business has juice anymore. Well, this is back in the day when there was juice. Back when there was juice. People used to have juice. It's a whole different issue. That's the great thing about John Cusack is that, you know, he's in this for the long haul.

You know, you're right. Like, he has amazing movies in every era. How about that movie that takes place entirely in the one room that's based on the Stephen King. yeah, room, what was that one called? That movie's good. 1408. Yeah, that movie's unbelievable. It's a fantastic movie. He basically has two

peaks. He has, this is pretty much one and then I guess 10 years later with the run of you know, Conair, being John Malcovic and high fidelity, I think. I agree with that. John Mahoney, no. Camacro no.

I don't know about Lauren Dean. Joe definitely was my favorite Lauren Dean character. You like him more than the guy from any enemy of the state? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 80s high school movies, I'm going to say no.

As much as I love this movie, I don't think this would be the first 80s high school movie that pops to mine. But I agree with you. Is it a Bueller? Yeah, probably. It's either Bueller or Breakfast Club. I don't think of it as even a part of that. Right. It's an outlier.

Yeah, it's an outlier because it's so much more sophisticated. in a lot of ways. You know, it is, all those movies feel like they're in one category, some of the John News movies, Bachelor Party. Right. It almost feels like it's like a 1990 movie that just happened to come out a year too early. I mean, I have to think, you know, say that when we were working on freaks and geeks, I always thought, let's approach this like we're still doing the Larry Sanders show,

but just in high school. And in a way, that's how I feel about this movie. It's about high school. It's about first love. But it's made by very, you know, funny, smart, emotionally complex, sophisticated filmmakers. And so it does feel like it's, you know, in its own space. This is a tough apex mountain question. Seattle movies.

We don't see that much of Seattle. We're not really getting a lot of the visual field. The correct answer is no. It's actually singles is, even though singles, I think this is probably a better movie. I think singles is, feels just like such more of a Seattle movie. I have to admit, for the longest time, I mean, you never really find out where it's actually set, but I always thought of seven as a Seattle movie just because it rains so much in that movie.

I know it's, it's probably not, but like, yeah, I think Singles is a more Seattle movie, although there are some very famous settings from say anything in Seattle. How about Apex Mountain for nursing home fraud movies? Would this be number one for you guys? No, it's the first couple of seasons of Better Call Saul are all about nursing home fraud. Picking Nets, this is where we picked Nits with a couple things in the movie. I mean, we talked about this already,

but maybe two, three minutes less of the nursing home fraud stuff. I would have, I think we could have gotten a hint of it. If you're going to cut anything, maybe do that. and then... No, expand, expand. More nursing abroad. I want to meet more of the people in the nursing home.

I want to know his relationship with him. How does this scam work? I need 20 more minutes. The Godfather 2 version of this movie is we get like midway in and we're like right about, they're about to fall in love. And then there's the flashback

to when Mahoney first decides to start scamming old people. I 90% understand why she broke up with Lloyd. But there's 10% that I feel like it was a little abrupt. Because it really seemed like she loved them. And then all of a sudden she's like, hey, I'm going to call this off. And it's like, so his reaction is kind of my reaction watching. And I think that's intentional by Cameron Crow, but it bothers me.

I didn't notice this, I think, when I was younger. But I do think that you're supposed to understand that a fair amount of time is passing over the course of the conversations that she's having with her dad. Because I don't think I noticed before that her outfits are changing and his outfits are changing. changing in there in different rooms in the house having that conversation over and over again. So we're really, I think you are supposed to feel like they're getting closer and closer to when she's supposed to leave and he's kind of trying to disentangle her from this. But yeah, and I think initially when you watch it, you're like, man, that seemed abrupt. Yeah.

I think that, you know, the thing that was a big deal back then was the pre going to college breakup. You know, that's just how it works. If you met somebody, you know, in June, you know, around graduation and you're leaving in September, that ship's going down. And that was actually the most painful thing for everybody was the people who were head over heels and loving were like, am I going to have a long distance relationship in college? Those were all going to end. So I thought it really was motivated by the dad using that against her. Clearly, he's got an issue with anyone with her and they're super codependent.

But he's trying to manipulate her and say, you know, it's not going to work. What are you going to do? Take them to Europe. Like, don't get in too deep. It's going to be too painful. But I only thought it wasn't abrupt because when girls used to break up with me, it was always abrupt. I never saw it coming. I will say the one thing more painful than the pre-college breakup.

is the three months into college breakup. Yeah. I've had that too. Hey, hey, it's Friday night. I just thought I call again. You probably just like, I'm sure you're just like watching a video somewhere down the hall. That's cool.

That's cool. That's happening, I'm sure. Let me know if you want to talk tomorrow night. I don't know that's Saturday night, but I don't have anything going on. So, no, can we just say as a public service to anyone listening who's not in college yet, but planes on going there? break up with whoever you're dating before you go to college

because you're going to break up with them anyway. Just get it over with. Pull the Band-Aid off. Pull it off right before Labor Day weekend. End it. Although who knows if anyone's ever going to go to college again. It might be all virtual learning. Yeah, you're stuck with whoever you're dating now.

Yeah, maybe stay with your boyfriend. Next category is best quote, which we've talked some of the quotes already, but I'm just going to throw out one more. The rain on my car is a baptism. The new me, Iceman. Power Lloyd. My assault on the world begins now. It's just great. The rain on my cars in baptism. Iceman. Power Lloyd. My assault on the world begins now.

Believe in myself, answer to no one. Also, another good high school yearbook quote. But if you have one favorite quote that we haven't mentioned, mention it now or forever hold your peace. I mean, it's half the movie. But I would probably put Corey saying, the world is full of guys, be a man, don't be a guy. I'm not going back there. I don't even know who you're talking about. Lloyd, why do you have to be like this?

Because I'm a guy. I have pride. Oh, you're not a guy. I am. No. No, the world is full of guys. Be a man. Don't be a guy. I also really love that moment in the last scene where Diane says, nobody thinks it'll work, do they? And Lloyd says, you just described every great success story.

Nobody thought we'd do this. Nobody really thinks it will work, do they? We just described every great success story. Yeah, I would say that the best quote is, I can't really tell if I'm great until I've had a couple of pro fights, but I haven't been knocked out yet. I don't know. I can't bring it all out tonight, sir.

I'm going to hang out with your daughter. Yeah, that's a great one. If you're eight and six as a fighter, you know, it's no good. You know, you have to be great, but I can't really tell if I'm great until I've had a couple of pro fights. But I hadn't been knocked down yet. I don't know. I can't figure it all out tonight,

so I'm just kind of hang with your daughter. Next category is, could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? My initial answer was just pure revulsion. But then I started thinking about it. I was like, well, what would be the 2021 say anything as a 10-episode Netflix show? I got to admit, I'm not going to lie.

I did kind of play it out of them. my head for like five seconds and maybe even got like 1% excited. So I don't know. Episode three is all about Joe. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Plus, wouldn't you spend 10 hours at the gas and sip? Yeah. Well, here's the thing. They remade high fidelity as a TV show and it was really good. And I thought that was a terrible idea. And they flipped the character and they made Zoe Kravitz, the QSack character. And the show is good. So I was thinking like, if they did this, maybe you flip the characters and the Ione Sky character is a guy who

has all shit together and the Q-Sacks of female character. Or the entire show is all about the woman who works at the suitcase store. Your card has been declined. That's episode 8. That's the first scene.

I'll still sleep with you, but your car has been declined. Probably in answerable questions. I had this down. Judd mentioned earlier, but did Lloyd predict the UFC and did he start a kickboxing network that didn't work? Like, what was his day? He was definitely way ahead of his time. What is Lloyd's podcast like right now? Oh, yeah. Well, that was my next question. Is Lloyd an MMA blogger, MAA podcaster, or both? Does Lloyd make like monthly

appearances on Rogan? Oh, yeah. He's on the Rogan show. Lloyd is like he's the producer. He gets brought in every once in a while. Yeah, I think he's definitely... Lloyd just made a hundred million dollars selling his podcast and Spotify. Congrats, Lord. Congrats. It's an MFA. MBA vertical. How long do you think they stayed together in England? Seven weeks. I think he got really depressed. He had nothing to do and he got really depressed. Does he try to get a job? Is he just home all day? What's he doing in London? I think that he had to go back. He had someone to ask him to do a fight. He had to go back, that he said he was going to come back to England after the fight. And he's like, you know what?

That fight went pretty well. I'm lining up another fight. And then that's how the podcasting Empire starts. And that's when he met Dana White. I turned down his offer to start the UFC. He doesn't want to work for that corporation. I think the one thing that Lloyd and Diane have going for them is Lloyd's parents are in Germany. And Diane's not going to go back to see her dad.

So there's not going to be any, hey, so I'm going to go back for Christmas, not sure when I'll be back. There's no break on the horizon. But there's just no way after two months, Diane's not like, can I just go out to the pub with the people from my classes? Like without my- Can you not come tonight, Lloyd? Without my boyfriend wearing the class shirt talking about kickboxing. Right. I think that's fair.

All right. He's got embarrassed her at some parties. There's going to be some embarrassing. Last category. Who won the movie? I'll throw out I can see Judd not answering this I could see it being

so it's probably for me Qzac but I think there's a outsider case to be made for Peter Gabriel Ah interesting Just because that song Becomes one of the most memorable things about the movie

If not the most I'm gonna say The one woman Who speaks in the nursing home She crushes it She's just like coming down closer yeah I always have to say Cameron Crowe,

because it was the launch of his directing career, and he just started out with the real classic. And for me, personally, you know, invented a genre. He took young people more seriously. He took them more seriously than they had been taken before. You know, he didn't make any more movies quite like that, although, you know, almost famous is another.

young precocious, you know, different and great person movie. But as someone that was so influenced by it, I have to give it to him because for me, it was like, this is the kind of movie I want to see. This is the kind of movie I want to make. I like how seriously he's taking very simple, basic human situations and problems and finding a way to be really funny and sweet and deep. So I have to give it to him. but also to John Mahoney because he's no longer with us.

So we should throw him extra respect. My vote goes to Cameron Crowe because I think QSack has been, has had a lot of signature movies, right? And even though I think this is his signature movie, like you could also talk me into three other ones. And if you asked three other people, I don't know what they would say. Apparently these three people say 1408.

Yeah, that's true. It's a good one. If you're stuck home right now, go straight to 14.08. That's all I got to say. I think for Crow, like... I think 14.08's the only movie you're allowed to make right now. That's true. For Crow, like, he's 32.

It launches his career. For people like us, you just buy season tickets for him after this. Like, whatever he's doing, you're in. And I think it really did influence a lot of people. And I think, you know, you look at 1989, it's not just him. it's Soderberg. That's when he's doing sex lies and videotape. That's when Die Hard is totally reinventing

what we thought an action movie would be. That's when Harry Metzally is doing the rom-com in a way that people just now rip off and are still ripping off 30 years later. And it's a weirdly influential year for different things that nobody would ever say like, oh, 1989. And I don't even remember what the Oscars were that year, but there's some ripples from this year.

And so I would give it for, I would give it to him. I think there's a good case for QSack too. Judd, your new movie, when does it come out? June 12th on Video on Demand, the King of Satin Island starring Pete Davidson, Marissa Tomei, Bill Burr, Steve Bishemi, Maude Apatow, and on and on and Pamela Adelon from Say Anything.

Yeah. So you're coming on the BS and we're going to talk about that movie and some other stuff too, including what it's like to direct your daughters and interact with them after they turn 15 because I have a lot of questions for hearing that. Judd, thanks for coming on. Chris Ryan, thank you for coming on. Thanks for listening to the rewatchables. All right, thanks again to Jed Appetow. Thanks to Chris Ryan. Thanks to State Farm. We will be back next week on the rewatchables with at least one new one. We still have Fletch. We've been holding on to that one. And maybe next week will be the

want. We'll see. Can I borrow your towel? My car just hit a water buffalo. Yeah, you'll be getting a lot of that when we do Fletch, whenever that is. Enjoy the rest of the week. Stay safe.