The Rewatchables - ‘School Ties’ With Bill Simmons, Juliet Litman, and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Juliet Litman, and Mallory Rubin use this podcast to get into Harvard after rewatching the 1992 classic film ‘School Ties’, starring Brendan Fraser, Matt Damon, Chris O’Donnell, and Cole Hauser. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the NFL preseason. Check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify or wherever get your podcast. And if you need fantasy football rankings, we've got our rankings, we've got our sleepers at fantasyfutball. So come listen to Danny Kelly, Greg Horlbeck, and me, Danny Hyfitz on the Ringer fantasy football show. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Build for today's creative process. Firefly helps you generate, edit. and experiment, fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller.

And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at adobe.com slash Firefly. I sold my car on Carvana last night. Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand.

It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong. So what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothing. I'm waiting for the catch.

Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need a knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good.

That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on. Carvana. Pick up these may apply. The rewatchables is brought through by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the ringer verse with Mallory Ribbon. In the House of Our podcast, you can find Bachelor Party

with Juliet Litman you can find the Bill Simmons podcast which is coming back late August coming up on this podcast

you know something I'm still gonna get into Harvard and in 10 years no one will remember any of this but don't remember this rewatchables

school ties is next his talent made him a winner you're so different for me other boys his style made him a leader you don't have to live up

to anybody else's expectations you aren't who you are Being a gentleman made him desirable. I have a secret. I think about you. Being different changed everything. You did this.

Brendan Fraser. Go on! School ties. Rated PG-13. Starts Friday, September 18th. All right, Mallory, Juliet. This movie is almost 30 years old. I wrote in 2011,

10 years, 11 years ago, that this was the best. There's just a lot going on. I can't stop watching this movie. The last 20 years, I compared seeing Frazier, Damon, O'Connell, and Affleck to the 2003 draft with LeBron, Carmelo, Bosch, and Wade.

That's a good one. It has O'Donnell about to break out instead of a woman. It's got Damon and Affleck, still five years away from Goodwill Hunting. It's got our guy, Cole Hauser, who I didn't even put in that 2000 draft,

the three draft analogy, blowing up on Yellowstone. Yeah. We'll get to Randall. Battenkoff and Brendan Fraser later. More importantly, Juliet. Yes. A movie

very near and dear to the hearts of the tribe. Oh, my goodness. I was thinking about it. I think it might be one of the most important movies for Jewish people that does not star a Jewish person. I mean, pretty hard to find that lane, but this movie did it.

And, you know, the inclusion of Dick Wolf is part of this story, really pushes it over the top for me. I think that Dick Wolf is ignored when it comes to Jewish excellence. And I'm really glad we're doing this podcast to give him his due. Mallory, Juliet, as we know, hosts Jewish stuff for the Ringer Podcast Network, which very underground pod that we haven't run a lot of episodes. But do you feel the same way about this, what it means? I don't know if I can claim in good faith to feel quite as strongly as Juliet. I think one of the things I've known about Juliet in the, what, nine years that I've known her is that this is one of

the most important films and, frankly, pieces of culture in her entire life. I am, however, very fond of this movie. And it checks a lot of boxes for me. You know, a story about Judaism, identity, football. I love a coming of age tale, as you know. It's playing the hits for me. I can't wait for today's pod. Well, for me, it also checks the boxes of, I love a all boarding school movies, just blind. I even love toy soldiers. Just put people in a boarding school outside Providence. You could have a whole cable channel of just boarding school movies or movies like Taps,

military school, anything with like teenagers in some sort of school with some sort of structure. I love that. I also love when they have the, we have a bunch of young people in a movie. Let's go find some new faces. let's go for maybe 20 years from now. People remember this as like, look at all of these people. I can't believe they're in the same movie,

which I think, I mean, you could say started with American graffiti in the 70s, but I don't think that was really the intention. The first movie that I think really tried to do this was Taps in the early 80s, which had Sean Pan and Timothy Hutton and Tom Cruise. Then the outsiders, Coppola,

if you read all the outsider stuff a year later, it's almost part of the marketing of the movie. I wanted to go out and find all the way I did with the Godfather. I'm going a whole other level. And then this became a thing, right? Dead Poets Society comes out in 89. Very similar, but at least has the Robin Williams anchor. This one doesn't have the anchor.

The anchors are the kids. And yet, Juliet, you made the key point. Brennan Fraser, not Jewish. No, definitely not Jewish. Everyone behind the scenes is Jewish, but none of these kids are, which is honestly kind of stunning, not to do. jump too far ahead, but I do think that maybe... You're going right to recasting couch?

Well, I was just going to say, is that like something that's really aged the worst? Kind of weird. Not even a supporting character. I just think that is a pretty bizarre fact about it. But, you know, it also launched Brendan Fraser and, you know, Blast from the Past is an often referenced movie for me. So, you know, I'm really grateful to this movie. I also just got to say, Bill, I love Toy Soldiers, is one of my absolute favorite movies.

Oh, is this your audition for the Tor soldiers rewatchables? No. Shea Seron already has a seat. We've talked about it. We've circled it a lot. I love that movie. Glad you brought it up. Just great vibes already.

Julia, where does Brendan Fraser as David Green rank for you on the non-Jews playing Jews Hall of Fame? Like up there with Daniel Craig in Munich. Oscar Isaac in Moonmite? Daniel Craig, that's not Jewish is one of my like favorite movie moments of all time. just incredible stuff. Oscar Isaac in scenes from a marriage as playing a formerly orthodox Jewish man

who is not actually Jewish as one of the biggest teases in the history of Hollywood. It's so unfair. But wait a second. In 1992, nobody thought about that we had to match whether it was like a disability

or any of this stuff. Like we just actors played parts, right? The Brendan Fraser not being Jewish thing never bothered me. I do wonder if this movie's made in 2022. I do feel like self-consciously they would have thought about that and said, no, no, this guy actually has to be Jewish in real life or else there's going to be some sort of Twitter backlash against this.

I'm not sure I care that Brennan Fraser isn't Jewish in real life because I thought David Green was really convincing. Like if you just go through the rest of the guys, he was clearly out of the six best actors in this movie, he was the perfect David Green choice. He was great. Because I think all of them auditioned for the David Green part. Right. But yet I don't make, I mean, is it different? Does it carry a little more weight if the actor is Jewish?

I think the conversation around it is different. I think that ultimately, like the press tour and the way it's interpreted, I think, which just changes. In 2022. Yeah. And I think maybe even then as well, because part of like the Brendan Fraser breakout story would be like, oh, this young Jewish man playing a young Jewish man who's also good football.

It doesn't really bother me. Like, I don't think that, like, you have to be the role you're playing. but I just think it's really notable that none of these actors are Jewish. Like, it's only the adults behind the scenes. I just have to say, no matter what year the press tour was set, no one would claim that Brendan Fraser was good of football,

which I'm sure will come up over the course of this podcast. Can't wait to talk about that. Well, Juliet mentioned Dick Wolf wrote the screenplay. It was based on some of the personal experiences he had. And everybody who was involved in this movie, there's a good oral history about it that came out in 2017, entertainment weekly. They really felt a real responsibility

of the behind the scenes people that this was an important movie and they're trying to say something. And there weren't really that many anti-Semitism movies in the 80s and 90s, right? You could probably name them right now. This one, they're trying to make this young, popular teen movie,

but they're also trying to say something else. I think it works. I mean, we've been talking for five minutes there. We didn't talk about how much fun this movie is to rewatch considering the subject matter. It just moves perfectly. And the most fun thing about it now 30 years later is seeing all these famous people at these really young stages of their careers. It's kind of amazing. Even Cole Houser, who's on the biggest TV show we have now.

And he's just like baby Cole Houser, when he kind of goes on David's side near the end, he's like, I don't know any Jewish people. But, you know, he's a good guy. You're like, oh, yeah, you're in. I always like that guy. But it's just, it's so much fun to see these. Juliet, I know you love Damon the most. I do. I love a cute young Matt Damon.

I just, I love him in this movie. He's so good. I have to say, I feel like Cole Houser upon rewatch, I'm like, huh, he was really good. And this was his first movie ever. But yeah, I mean, Damon is such a good villain. I feel like also this really foreshadows his excellent work in talented Mr. Ripley.

And like, there's so many good guy Matt Damon movies out there. But when you rewatch school ties, you're reminded that, like, actually, he should always be the villain. Like, he's really good at playing a dick. And it's a delight to watch. And he's also really good at, like, having a chip on his shoulder. I mean, you know, that's been, of course, part of Goodwell Hunting as well. But it's a great Matt Damon. What do you got, Mallory?

I want to say that I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned new. England yet in terms of the reasons that this movie stands out and has a special place in your heart, you know, really tapping into something about life up in Massachusetts. Yeah, on the point about the cast, I mean, it is such a treat to revisit it and see all of these people in this one place and think about how many other movies can really compete in terms of launching this many notable. Notable. careers. And it's funny to like, obviously there's, you know, no question that that Damon and Affleck are the top two on the list now. You barely remember that chesty Ben Affleck is in this movie. That's one of the true treats of revisiting it, you know, the shirtless dancing. Just to be clear,

I never forget. Julia, Julia did the whole time for 30 years. But like you mentioned said to a woman right in the wake of this. Chris O'Donnell and Brendan Fraser had really like rocketing. stars. And now we have the Yellowstone Rip contingent and it's just such a joy to see Cole Hauser. So it's so fun across the board to revisit. Even like Mr. Cleary, you know, not to spoil by that guy picked, but I'm just like, I have seen this guy in 75 television shows since this movie came out. You know, Edmund Burke on Lost. Unbelievable. So it is just so fun to watch. And on the one, on the one hand, like Damon in particular has this face that is just like frozen in time. You know, he looks exactly the same now as he did then.

And I love Juliet's point about how compelling it is to see him as a villain and how convincing he is as the smarmy asshole and the entitled prick, given how accustomed we are now to seeing him as like the charismatic guy that we're rooting for. So that's one of the real, real compelling parts of revisiting. the film. I'm really glad you brought up New England. I was thinking about, is this a really, I was thinking like, this is an important macehole movie. It's distinct from Boston, but it's like a real Massachusetts movie. And I think that's an important contribution to the canon, just in general. It's interesting. I was thought of this as a New England movie because those New England boarding schools, they're all in different places. They're all not really near any cities. And they're all kind of

look relatively similar, whether you're in like, like, Chot. in Connecticut or you're in Exeter, and over, any of these places, they all kind of remind you of each other. So to me it's more like a New England boarding school thing. The Damon point, though, so I'm all the, I was

graduated from college when this movie came out. So I really remember seeing the theater and I remember, I love movies at that point. I remember my reactions. They were steering everything toward Brendan Frazier and Chris O'Donnell because they knew scent of a woman was coming out a little bit after and they knew that

movie was going to blow up at that point. And then Brennan Frazier was the star of the movie. I honestly remember leaving this movie and Damon was the guy that stood out to me. I thought he was great. Like he was so hateable. And anytime I saw him after that, I was like, oh, school ties Damon. And for the next four years, that's how it played out where he was just in stuff. And you're like, oh, maybe this is the one. And I remember, I've told this, I think I told the story in the Goodwill Hunting boat when I was living in Charlestown, the mid-90s, the improper Bostonian wrote this story about Goodwill hunting. They were making it.

It was like, these local kids are making Goodwill hunting. I was like, oh my God, the guy from school ties. He wrote his own movie. I thought he's one of the best, like, evil preppy racist characters we've had. That guy, the moment he realizes David Green is Jewish, that look he gets

on his face where it's just like, it's really great. I thought he did an awesome job in this. He's really good. That scene at the bar is amazing. And also, I love that it, like, that it centers around, like, is blocking enough? Like, if it's throwing a good block worthy of someone in the Dylan family. He didn't throw the block, though.

That's the thing. David Green had to throw him. Yeah. To execute the block, I can't wait. Not sure how realistic that was. Great stuff. One of the best quotes in that EW 25-year oral history that Bill already mentioned is from Stanley Jaffe, the producer of the film,

and it's about Matt. And, like, one of the main themes of the entire oral history, which is really interesting and certainly worth a read, is just about the cast and all of the careers that spawned from this. But there's a Jaffe quote about Damon, and it's this. Matt had a quality that was extraordinary. I thought

of him to play the main role, but then I thought, no, I just can't do that. So that's a fascinating alternate history to consider. Damon is the lead. But, like, even though the entire piece is very, much about all of these extraordinary young actors that they found. There's a level of praise for Damon in here that is above what you read about the other actors. And that feels very of a piece

with what we're all saying here. Well, I'm going to play you something. Matt Damon was on a podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network called the BS podcast, the Bill Simmons podcast. This is from 2018. We talked about school ties. And this is what he said about it. But that was a huge break for me. And it was a big break because Stanley Jaffe, who was originally directing it, and Sherry Lansing were producing. Now, they had done Kramer versus Kramer. Yeah. They had also quite famously done TAPS. And so they were- Another one of those young ensemble movies.

So they were known as people who really had the eye to, and so to kind of be cast by them, because Stanley was originally the director of the movie, was kind of a, kind of is a, kind of a. signal effect. You know, people went, oh, these are young, these are serious young actors, I guess. And Ben and I both got put in that movie. So it was a, it was a, that was a big, that was a big break. But then I went back to college and the phone didn't ring. And, you know, I mean, I'd subsequently learn a lot about marketing and how to market. And they marketed it the way they should have, which was around Brendan, because he was the star. And he went off and did Encino Man after. It was like, okay, this guy's got another movie. He's the star of the movie. We got to blow him up. And then Chris O'Donnell got sent of a woman.

You auditioned for that one, right? Everyone auditioned for that one. Yeah, everyone auditioned for that one. It's a great part. It was one of those parts. It was like, oh, my God, opposite Al Pacino. And Chris went in and won it. And so everyone knew that movie was going to be big. And so it was like the marketing kind of emphasis went to those guys.

And I remember being really hurt by that. Yeah. Like personally, feeling like, well, but I'm, but I, you know, I'm nothing like this person that I'm playing in this movie. I'm really good in this movie. Like, why isn't, you know, and I just... So you think they actually, that they held that role against you a tiny bit? It's possible.

No, no, no. I don't think the whole role got held against me. I think it was just... I wasn't talked about... Like, those guys were talked about. Like, I remember my brother going, dude, I saw this thing, and it was like... You know, they were talking about the two actors who were really going to come off of this movie. And they said it's Brendan.

and Chris. And it was because they had work lined up. Yeah. I was back in school and I didn't have any other job. So it's funny. He really felt like this was going to be this breakout movie for him, then nothing happened. And in the moment, Chris Aldana, who was going to Boston College, I was living in Boston at the time, and he just seemed like the next one. It seemed like this guy is going to be an A-plus lister. He was awesome incentive of a woman. And as Damon said, everybody went for that part. He got it. He was really great in it. And at that point, if you're just like betting on stock, if you're betting stock on actors,

I think Chris O'Donnell would have been like the number one young white actor you would have bet on, right? Is this the time to talk about how Chris O'Donnell is one of the formative crushes of my life? Like, I was in love with him when I was growing up. And I think a lot of people were, right? Oh, absolutely. He was a crush.

He was a heartthrob. Like, he had the kind of face, the best way I can describe it thinking about, you know, I was born in 86, so you're growing up, like, in the early 90s, mid-90s, he had the face that stopped you when you were walking through Blockbuster, right? And you saw him on the cover of a VHS. And so, like, then you build to, even though this stretch of Batman history is widely derided, he played Robin. Like, he was Dick Grayson in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, which, like, was a very big deal and also, like, a different caliber of fame. So he was, something of a sensation on his way to decades upon decades of work on NCIS Los Angeles.

You've elided two really important stops for me. One is three musketeers in which he is so dreaming. He is so good. And of course he was on Grey's Anatomy in season two for a long time. But it's funny. I think Chris O'Donnell getting scent of a woman has like cast a real shadow over the entire mythos of school tides. Like everyone brings it up.

Like in every story it's like, oh, well then Chris went on to send him a woman. And it sort of like sets him apart in a way that really aligns with his role as well as like one of the first guys to come out and support David Green. And similarly, um, Brendan Fraser like didn't hang out with everyone else. Like he stayed in a different hotel while they were shooting the movie. And he's sort of like doing his own thing also in a way that like aligns with his character. And I thought those parallels were really interesting because I don't think they like tailored the roles to those guys at all But it kind of reflected like the reality of the cast reflected their dynamics in the film

Well, if Wesley Morris was here, he would make the crucial point That ironically Chris O'Donnell got market corrected by Matt Damon So if you look at So I remember seeing Mad Love in the theater too in 1995 Of course. Chris O'Donnell and Drew Barrymore, they had a mad love. It was mad. She's crazy.

That wasn't her wacky relationship movie phase. Like, she had a bunch of those. But by the way, that's a pretty watchable movie, and he's really good in it. And there's this alternate universe. I think Mark Wahlberg, Mark had corrected him a little bit, but there's this alternate universe where maybe PTA is like, fuck it. This guy's Dirk Diggler. We just, we need one name.

Oh, my God. Maybe there's talented Mr. Ripley. They talked themselves to the christened. He instead goes this other way where he gets the chamber. which, you know, out of all the Grissom movies, I'm not positive that's the one I would have wanted. He does In Love and War, but then Batman is what really, really hurt him.

And then two years later, he does The Bachelor that's 1999. He misses this window from basically 95 to 99, which is this incredible movie Renaissance, and you have all these great directors either on the rise or starting to hit their primes, Fincher, PTA, and Tarantino, you name everybody. And he's just not in any of the movies.

And then the moment kind of passes. And all of a sudden, he's on the practice in 2003. Great move. A great show. I think if you redo his career and a couple of choices go differently, I think his career is different. I think Batman and Robin really heard him because that movie was reviled. I have a theory on that, which is everything you just laid out is a testament to George Clooney. And the charm and prowess and supremacy of George Clinton.

George Clooney. Chris O'Donnell, not overshadowed in sent to a woman. Chris O'Donnell, not overshadowed in school ties. It's a horrible part of the Batman lore. George Clooney unscathed. It's a joke. He makes jokes all the time, but the nibbles on the suit because George Clooney is so special. Iconic. Yeah. But like, but Chris O'Donnell cannot escape that. And I just think it shows you just how powerful and charming George Clooney is. And that is why he. Well, there was also, there was a glut of people who he would have been competing with at the time, including all the people in this movie. But then, you know, Leo's in Titanic and 97. And just for whatever reason, it's like

those NFL drafts where there's just a lot of quarterbacks in the same draft or a lot of receivers. There was just a lot of actors kind of competing for the same stuff around the same time. And some of them hit the right part. Some of them didn't. I always really liked them. My wife, he's like an all-time favorite for her too. I think in general, he has a way higher cue rating than I think people realize. But, you know, some of the movies are bad. Like, The Bachelor's not a great movie. Then you get a little older and that's it.

Can I make one more comment on him before I move on? Well, I was going to move on to Randall Battenkopf, which is huge. But go ahead. Okay. Well, this goes together. All of the really pretty guys in this movie did not take off in the same way. The pretty faces, like, they stole mine and Mallory's hearts. I was really focused on Battenkoff through my entire rewatch.

But those guys, like that like prettiness just didn't translate. Like Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are very attractive, but they're not as like classically pretty with like the really symmetrical face. And I think that's part of it too. You have bat and cough thoughts, Mel, before I do my thing? I'm really thrown by Juliet just now implying that Ben Affleck is not one of the most handsome people who's ever lived. I'm honestly stunned by it.

It's a team. It's a team Damon thing for Juliet. She feels like she has to stay loyal to Team Dam until the end. And even if that means denigrating Affleck a little bit, she'll do it. I'm just saying the prettiness is not the same as Chris O'Donnell. It's not. It's a very different type of look. It's a toothy smile.

I mean, he's very hot and handsome, but it's just, it's different. So, Mal, I wrote this about Batten Koff in 2011. I think it still stands because I think of it every time I watch this movie. He's right there with all of these guys. and even if Chris O'Donnell, if he couldn't keep it, he was still an A-list star for six years there. A fucking Damon became what they became. Brennan Frazier had a really good career

and was in some big movies and really up until the affair, which we could talk about a much later. Apex Mountains. He's the affair. His career was great. Cole Houser, we always liked him. He was always popping up and he belatedly had it. And Battenkopf, I wrote this in 2011.

and I was thinking, I'm watching this movie going, what hell happened? I was right there. Why them and not me? What did I do wrong? And I don't really know the answer because I really liked him.

I love the Rip Van Calt character and I don't really know what happened. He was also in Buffy the same year. Like being in school ties and Buffy is the same time. The player and Buffy and school ties. Right. Yeah.

I mean, it is a puzzler on a rewatch. That was one of my questions to ask you, Bill, is like why he didn't be become more famous and have like a sustained top tier. Look at this guy's handsome face career. I don't know if it was a glut. Like I feel the same way about Josh Hamilton.

We did kicking and screaming. And Josh Hamilton's fantastic and kicking and screaming. He's another one that, you know, Ethan Hawk is in the middle of this too. I just think there were a lot of, for whatever reason, just a lot of competition at the same time. I mean, even the in the mid-90s,

like the John Hamm, Vince Vaughn, John Favro, all those guys show up too. So maybe that's it. Maybe just sometimes you don't get that one part. But he's in higher learning in 95 and then basically moves into like a TV version. I really liked him. I thought he was good in this movie. I love him.

I feel like that's the Robert Sean Leonard role too. Like I feel like he was really competing with him. And like Robert Sean Leonard had been in this movie. That's who he would have been. And like Robert Sean Leonard has just a tiny bit more gravitas. And I feel like maybe that's also That hurt his trajectory. But he's another one that I don't,

I know he was on House. I know he had a good career, but he seemed like he was going to be one of the major actors we had after dead poets. He's another one I read on. So you just never know. Roger, this movie, $18 million budget, made $14.7 million.

Did I make its movie back? But I guarantee it made its movie back on DVDs, VHS, cable. This movie's been on cable for 30 years straight. It is always on. There's never a moment where it's not on. I think it's on HBO Max right now. Roger Ebert.

Excited to see how discovery markets it soon. Yeah, right. Roger Ebert, three stars, called it surprisingly effective, perceptive, unforgiving. It's not simply about anti-Semitism, but also about the way that bigotry can do harm by inspiring dishonesty. Rod's love story. CISCLE, when they did this on the TV show, Siskel recalled all the anti-Semitic prejudice he experienced in prep school. including being handed a piece of toast would jam in the shape of a swastika.

And he said the film had a fairly high bar with him due to its subject matter, but in the end result, pleased him. And he was happy with it. This is something that I think the filmmakers, when you read that 2017 EW oral history, they felt like a real responsibility

because a lot of the people in Hollywood had experienced some form of something at some point in their lives, usually as kids. So it was a meaningful thing. There is a lot. I mean, we got to get to the cat. categories. We're into quick break. There's a lot to cover here. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. All right.

Most rewatchable scene. Oh, my God. The Smokey Joe Cafe scene. D.C. High five, Mac. Bought it to summer from a friend back home. How much do you want it? 40 bucks, but I drew him down to 30. 30?

I'll give you 25 for it. Look at him. He's always trying to get something for nothing. He's not even Jewish. The unintentional comedy, there's some eye candy for the two of you. Chesty. Affleck shirtless for reasons that remain unclear 30.

Obviously told the director, what if I took my shirt off? He's just trying to stand out. Everyone's just trying to stand out in some way. You know what's so funny about that? Is that Chesty is not even his nickname. Like all these guys have nicknames throughout the movie, but his character is just named Chesty,

and he's showing his chest. It's not my friend. Not all I thought, put it to. The, and then it ends with the monkey sounds, with the clear it coming in, but I do feel like the S&L parody of this scene would be the exact same scene.

I wouldn't change anything. I don't, the song is weird, but this is the 50s who can judge. What am I missing? What else jumped out? Brendan Fraser is really hot in this scene. not particularly like a Frazier head. As you know, I've got all my eyes on Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.

But like, I just love Brendan Fraser in this scene. And I think he has so much presence that it really establishes him as like the big man on campus right away. But I also happen to love the song. And it's written by Lieber and Stoll, which is a pretty legendary Jewish songwriting team. So I think that's also like kind of seeding some of the Jewish stuff like right away. Yeah. It's great to like an encapsulation simultaneously of like the rituals of youth. bonding, and I think that's one of the things that I really love about the movie and the

boarding school setting is just like the way you try to get to know other people and how natural that can be in some moments and how overtly strange it can feel sometimes. And then like within that, you have all these very specific things that you get to quickly observe for all of the characters. It's like they're in a room that just has like an X-lax sign on the wall. Bizarre and hysterical, right? You already mentioned that Affleck is shirtless for absolutely no reason. McGivorne. This is like a big scene for him, of course, and it establishes the McGivorne clear attention that will be a big through line of the film. He's got his feet, his bare feet propped up on the chair. They're talking about the high-fi. We see the like just absolute casual nature of the anti-Semitic rhetoric and bigotry of the group. Like this is just part of the way that's what he does to chewed him down. Yeah. I chewed him down from 40 bucks to 30 or whatever. It's like, oh. Yeah. So it's a really crucial scene in a lot of ways. Is this the first scene on your list? Are you going to chronological order? Well, I have like eight, eight, nine scenes.

There's so many. There's so many coming. There's a lot. I have the first football game, the win against Winchester. But we could see Frazier. I don't want to talk about Frazier as a quarterback yet. Okay. But he does throw it 120 yards for the winning touchdown.

The boss, nobody's ever thrown. Jeff George, you name a Kimi. The ball has never gone longer ever in the air. in the history of football. And they get the win touchdown. I really like Damon and Frazier and the dock. It's a good one. Movies forget to put scenes like this in.

You have to have the scene where the guys bond in some way for three minutes. And you have to have scenes like this. And they do it. And he says, I envy you. And it's just like, whoa, this is good. I envy you. Because if you get what you want, you'll deserve it. And if you don't, you'll manage.

You don't have to live up to anybody else's expectations. you are who you are. That's really what draws people to you, David. It's not that you're the cool quarterback. Come on, you're the most popular guy on campus. Well, if my name weren't Dylan, that would be different. I also love a doc. I mean, love a dog.

Yeah, Doc's a good. I think this is quietly in the running for best scene of the movie. Not necessarily most rewatchable, but best. Like, this has some of the most crucial lines and exchanges for both characters. I think that the moment where David says, you know, if I told my friends back home about this, they wouldn't believe me over a failing grade in French. That's actually really important because, like,

he cares about McGiver and he's not being mean-spirited, but you do actually have to establish the varying perspective, right? And how that, like, entitlement manifests and the expectations that these kids have for their lives, but also balance that with, like, what is for those kids a very real burden. And that's like a pretty delicate balancing act to make us feel sympathy, obviously for all of the different characters.

When they don't always deserve it, like it reminded me a little bit. You guys remember that scene, Game of Thrones spoiler, between Jamie and Brianne after the hand chopping. And she calls it misfortune and he can't believe it. He's like so galled by it. And she says you have a taste, one taste of the real world where people have important things taken from them and you whine, right? And like, I just love what the scene does,

because there's a version of it where David is like a jerk and unfeeling, but that's not how it plays at all. And yet he still voices this kind of important sentiment. And we're not judging McGivorne, but we're reminded of that just total difference in the experiences of their lives and the context of their lives. So it's great. And then the envy thing is obviously just essential for the rest of the movie. Was Jamie the one-handed guy who had sex with a sister? You nailed at SG. Brian was the giant blonde lady. That's right. Look how well you remember Game of Thrones,

your favorite show from the 1300s. I was going to do this later about Damon's character, but I went from public school and Brookline to go into prep schools in Connecticut. And the Damon character is a real character that exists in any of these schools where you have the legacy of the family, the expectation, things are just going to work out for me no matter what because I was part of this family.

and kids that, the interesting thing about him is he's very self-aware, which is, I think it's part of Damon's performance, but also the character is really well written. He's very self-aware the whole time. They have that moment after the football game when he goes, the guy comes over to meet his brother. He's like, congrats on it.

You've known my two sons, and the guy doesn't shake Damon's hand. He just shakes the older brother's hand. And there are all these little moments like that where you can see why he knows he's not quite good enough. The family thing's going to push him through. but he really wants to prove that he's good enough. So everything is, I just think, really authentic with them.

Yeah. And also in that scene, the class stuff hangs over them the entire time, but they're literally on equal playing field there. Like, they are sitting on the dock, so their level, they're wearing the same thing. They're reflecting on something they just shared together. But they still can't escape this, like, you know, fundamental truth that David's life is so different than Matt Damon,

or then... That he's earning everything. Yeah. And, like, it really brings, brings to the front how that is just a fundamental difference every time they interact and the class thing is so huge. Well, unfortunately, David stole his quarterback job

and he's about to steal his girlfriend and thinks are going to go horribly wrong. The St. Luke's win. Yeah, huge. I love myself a boarding school football scene. I'm just going to always be in, even if the quarterback, I can't wait talking about the quarterback,

we're not doing it now, but the block, the icon, the iconic throwing team. Has that ever happened in a real football game? I'm going to say no. Like, has Josh Allen ever thrown Devin Singletary into? Not Devin Singletary. Yeah, Devin Singletary.

It's certainly not the same, but I thought I was thinking a bit of the Bush Push in that sequence and just like using someone else's body to achieve your end and cart the path to victory there. But that whole sequence is just so funny. the close-up of Damon's face. Yeah. As he sprawled out in the grass,

watching everybody else toast David Greene's achievement is just like one of the favorite, my favorite images of the film. It's so good. That would be a big gift on Twitter if this movie aired today. The continuity, there's some issues. They, again, once again, I always volunteer my services as sports movie realism coordinator. We go from Damon convinces them to call the play where you,

fumbles and Frazier runs back to the coach and gets chewed out for not calling the right play, but then immediately gets sent out for third down and they're on offense again. It's like, wait, what's going on? They're playing defense because then Dylan misses the tackle. Oh, yeah, you're right, you're right. You're right. But it is still insane that it's instantly third down because there have not been other place. Yeah, yeah, that's a bit.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of editing problems around that one. Very strange, yeah. Next one is, I mean, I love the whole post-game, all that whole cocktail party. I loved it as well. Dylan finding out about David Green is probably the best moment of this movie. Why? St. Luke's would never have taken him? Probably not.

Why wouldn't St. Luke's had taken him? Green, they wouldn't have enrolled a Jew, not even for a championship. A Jew? Just a look on his face. It's just, it's like a record screech. You're like, oh boy. Cal Reynolds, you fucker. You can't, you just can't set it up better than that.

And then it's a question of, all right, how far is Damon going to go? When you're watching this for the first time, it's like, okay, what is he going to do with this information? It's going to hold on to it. It's going to confront them immediately. Well, he confronts him immediately. Sure does. We get a naked shower fight. It turns out our golden boy here

Is a line backstabbing kite I'm a son of a badger I'm mary Of all the naked shower fights you've seen This your favorite Boy you know I was thinking of this For Apex Mountain Yeah

I think Eastern Promises is still Top of the list That's difficult to beat You know I don't know how they edit it out the dicks Yeah exactly How do they never have a dick? You know, that's a special thing.

So I think that that has to remain in the top spot. One of the weirdest things about the shower fight is like they really set it up like from the jump when Chris O'Donnell asked Brendan Fraser, do you shower at morning or at night? Like in the very beginning of the movie, it's like they're trying to explain why they're going to have a naked shower fight after the big win in the future. It's like so important to the movie. It's very bizarre. Very bizarre. He goes right into, he goes back to his room, starts arguing with Chris O'Donnell

about why he didn't tell him he was Jewish. Then a little bit later we get the swastika sign scene and the cowards, which is I think the most memorable moment of this movie. Fraser's great in that scene. I like how it's filmed. I like when all the lights go on. That this stretch from the St. Luke's win

all the way through to the cowards is, you're just not turning the chain. You're just not. Yeah. It's really, really strong 20 minutes. I have two more. I got the big powwow. Yep.

Colehousers, Jack Connors. I admit, you know, I'm an anti-Sanite. I cracked you jokes. I think they're greedy, pushy. You want to know something else, guys? David Green's really the first one I've ever met up close. What's your point, Connors? Who's a good guy?

I wouldn't cheat. Which means you think Dylan did? Yeah, I think they're only cheated. It makes two of us. Fucking Miguel. Cole has her. He's got that. And then he's got to give Will Hunt in the car for his birthday.

He's like, it's a good engine. It's a good engine. Those were like his two greatest movie moments. And then Magoo, who just, he's got those glasses on. And apparently the actor, Anthony Rap, in real life, said that he couldn't see out of the glasses. So when he's acting, he doesn't even know where anybody is. and he does the, I can't believe this.

You want to dump Dylan for a dirty tune? And then they do the vote and Frasier comes in. All right, I'll honor your traditions. All right. I'll honor your traditions. I'll go to the headmaster. And I'll lie.

And I'll lie. It's a great moment. It's so good. It's great. I love the deliberation. The deliberation is so good. Yeah. So many things.

Is that our fun about a movie, an honor code, secret ballot versus open ballot, guys turning on each other, guys having to be separated for no reason? Really, they hit all the notes. I agree. Also, the deliberation scene, like, I love when everyone's together when you, like, get the full ensemble. It's, like, better than a dinner scene where, like, there's people that are given more room to play, like, physically.

And, like, any time you can get them together in a way it truly feels authentic to the movie. Should we do this more with the ringer? Like when we make decisions, should we just all be in a room and it's way more contentious and there's secret ballots and open ballots?

Yeah, absolutely. Let's try it for the fall. We need our chesty though. You know, we need to bring in Affleck. Would you both trust us to do what's right? To do what's fair? Affleck. You know what I love about the,

I mean, the whole Honor Code deliberation stretch is fantastic, beginning with the history professor challenging them, right? Their honor is on the line. But one of the things that's like, it's subtle, but really important in the chamber is that they introduce a bunch of red shirts into the scene, right? Not football red shirts, Star Trek red shirts. The guys who are not actual characters in the movie and you need the extra bodies there either because they're going to go die on a mission or because you need other people to further skew the vote, right? And like one of the things I love about that entire sequence is when they're still in the classroom and Magoo,

who is just a piece of garbage, like nothing redeemable about Magoo begins to speak up and says that he thinks he knows who it is. Your instinct is a viewer. Like you're bracing for him to immediately accuse David. But he doesn't. There's the whole Conner's. He goes at Colhazer. Yeah. There's that whole stretch. And it like just for a second allows you to believe that these people might not behave in exactly the way that their prejudice and privilege would lead you to expect that they would. And then they do, right? And it's like faith for storing to see Reese stand up. And then eventually, of course, you get the rip reveal when he's in the chair in the headmaster's office. But it plays out to script in a way that I think could make the movie feel like

predictable and less impactful. But of course, that's the point, right? Is that like, you know, trust people when they show you who, they are. And so it makes it just really, really, really poignant and, like, deeply sad. And I think that that's part of why it is still so resonant today, because, like, the amount of prejudice and bigotry and hate in the world, you watch this today, and it's impossible not to think of how many scenarios, like, are still playing out like this all the time. It's just, like, really dispiriting. Great stretch. I'm going to lighten the mood from that poignant point with the most important question I've ever asked Juliet.

Two of the biggest interest in her life. One is this movie. Do you think 902 and O freshman year in college ripped off the school ties deliberation scene with John Sears in the Keghouse versus Steve Sanders

when everybody had to vote on who broke the honor? Was that a direct ripoff of this movie? I'm actually going to say no. If I recall correctly, they literally had blackballs with the in nine or two and now, didn't they? Where they voted?

And I feel like that's a tradition that is separate from the traditional school ties. I'm sure there was a lot of enthusiasm for it. Okay, it's like four months after this movie. Well, they might not have seen it then. I guess they have. I don't know, Bill.

I think the blackballing is so fundamental to Greek life. But... Well, most important. I love myself a public vote like that with everybody having to see what goes on. Then the ending. The big reveal.

Our guy Rip Van Kelp. Sitting in the chair, you can't see him initially. He's got his back. It's like you barely even notice him. Brendan Fraser walks in. He thinks he's getting expelled. And then the whirl around. Battenkoff, greatest moment in his career.

And he sells out Charlie Dylan. The best thing about every scene that Battenkoff is in is the sweaters he's wearing. So, like, they're eminently rewatchable because of his incredible shawl collar sweaters and the cardigans. So I had that in what stage the best. I'm in love with him. His cardigan, his cardigan game was out of control. It was amazing. So he saves Frazier leaving to.

No, sir. You're never going to forget it happened because I'm going to stay here. And every day you see me, you'll remember that it happened. You used me for football. I'll use you to get into Harvard. This is literally how I felt about ESPN for the last five years I was there. He used me for football He used you to get it to Harvard

One of the great lines ever One of my favorite lines the last 30 years You use me for football I use it to get to Harvard And he fucking drops the mic And walks out And you're thinking This movie, what an ending

This movie can't get better Oh no, it actually can Here comes Matt David His car, he's gonna roll down the window You know something I'm still gonna get to Harvard In 10 years No one will remember any of this

But you'll still be a goddamn Jew And you'll still be a prick walk off, end a movie. Should he have said you'll still be a goddamn prick? Yes. I feel like he should have, right? Absolutely.

I don't feel like he's as harsh as Damon was in that one moment. I would have gone goddamn prick. I just think we need some stronger language than prick in general in this movie. Like, prick is the insult of choice. That's also part of the intro scene. Well, sure.

It's a little chase for me. What would you have gone with? I don't know. Entitled fuckface? Destering, gaping, soar of a person. How about that? I feel like he should have a son of a bitch. It's a little bit longer.

It's like the same length as goddamn Jews, son of a bitch. Like, I feel like those kind of would have worked a little bit better than just prick. You'll still be a bigoted son of a bitch? Yeah. You'll still be a goddamn bigot? Yeah. How about it's a good one too? How about you'll still be a bigot?

I think he has to say goddamn on the way back. I agree. I definitely agree. Great ending. All right. Mallory, what was your most rewatchable scene? I just want to throw out another nominee, which is the Rush Ashuna sequence. I was just going to say that too.

It has to be on the list. Like, I think it's of a piece bill. Like, I think part of what makes that final exchange between David and the headmaster so impactful is that David, his immense credit, has stood up tall in, in conversations with this, like, really ignorant guy, the entire movie, you know? And so, like, I think that that exchange. when the headmaster says, you people are very determined, aren't you?

Like, the look, that's what a love face acting. Brinianne Frazier's just quiet rage on his face when he says, sometimes we have to be, sir. Setting up one of the best exchanges of the film, I seem to recall the blessing, blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. I wonder how meek they'll be when they do, sir. Like, iconic.

That's just so, so, so good. Yeah, and then was it worth it? Breaking a tradition just to win a football game? Your tradition or mine, sir. I mean, that's the flip side to the final exchange between them and his office at the end. So I totally agree. Also, just in terms of Jewish stuff, Avinawalkanu, the prayer he's saying is like the most famous prayer, like outside of, you know, the Motsi, which you hear at a bar mitzvah. So like that, I think it really contributes to it.

And David's father being like, you have to go to synagogue. Like, that's the only thing that matters is like definitely something that almost ever. Jewish person grows up with like there's one day or you have to go and it's for Rosh Hashanah. So I think the Rosh Hashanah sequence for me and the Jewish stuff lens is just absolutely essential. I was going to hit that scene in a later

category but we can do it now. I mean, Kofax, when did he not pitch in the World Series? Was that Rosh Hashan or Yom Kippur? That might have been Yom Kippur. Just timing wise, that makes more sense. Yeah. I just said, did it diminish David standing in the Hall of Fame of Jewish people that he played football on Rosh Hashanah?

I don't know. I don't know the customs. Well, this comes up a lot in my family. Can you attend a football game on Rosh Hashanah? Can you attend a football game on Yom Kippur? A lot of disagreement. And I would say it depends what generation you're asking. But I would say David Green did the best he could, which is he's trying to stay in school.

Staying in school, but also observing the holiday. Luckily, Rosh Hashanah's two days. Probably wasn't over when he was praying by himself. I think he really represented. very well. Thank you, David Green. Yeah. I do think it's part of why the scene like works really well is because he starts

off needing to kind of honor his father's wishes from that phone call as Juliet noted. But in that final moment, like he's doing what feels right for himself, right? He's saying those things because they're important to him and he's doing that because it's important to him. And like that's a big part of his

journey in the movie is like, what feels right to you? And what does your faith mean to you? And what do these different aspects of who you are and who your family is and how you were brought up, like, how are those a part of your life? And just like, just as your, the, the, the bigots around you and your enemies and the people who would seek to keep you down can't tell you how to live your life, like, nobody else can either, right? Even if they're people that you love, you've got to find your way on your own. And I think that scene is like, again, it's a

quick one and it's sandwiched between some, some bigger, like, heavy hitters. But I do think it's really important. It's like really rife with this palpable tension. And it's just a really effective reminder of how ingrained the prejudice is. I love that scene. It's probably not my pick for the category. I think that has to be the deliberation sequence. Yeah. I think I have the deliberation sequence as most rewatchable,

but the most rewatchable stretch is that whole stretch from the St. Luke's game all the way through to cowards is just a great like 20 minutes. I can't wait to unleash my hot take on you guys. But I also just want to add that I also think that David choosing to pray on his own in a time that work for him really makes it clear that he chooses to be Jewish. It's not like an identity thrust upon him. And that's really

important in contrast to Matt Damon, to Dylan, who's like lamenting being a Dylan. Like he's lamenting all of the privilege and it's like he didn't choose this, but he's also benefiting from it. Meanwhile, David is choosing to be Jewish and everything

that comes along with it and trying to just like make it work. And it's really important to like how they're inverses of each other. So I watch this with the close captioning on, and his dad talks German to him at one point. And this is 1955. It's 11 years after World War II and the Holocaust, the whole thing. And I wonder, like, is there some extra something with that piece of it that there are basically German Jews living in Pennsylvania, right?

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I thought the opening montage of this movie was like the worst part of the movie. I was like, is this, are they trying to make it seem like a war movie? I know. I have that in Whatstage's yours. We'll get really good. Let's, uh, we'll take a break.

We'll do What's Age the Best. All right. What's Age the Best? Just seeing Damon Affleck and Hauser and Goodwill Hunting is a great What's Age the Best. Um, 1950s boarding school movies. Just keep making them. There should be one every two years.

The, um, the, the Rip Van Keltz outfits we mentioned. The Cardigan game is, is all time. Not even my dad has a better cardigan game. Matt Damon's rich villain, racist faces, just elite. The 1950 M.G. That Professor Cleary has, really great car. Just wanted to flag it. I like the uniforms, the football uniforms.

I thought were really nice. Matt, could that work in the NFL? Like, what would happen if, like, the Arizona Cardinals just wore the St. Matthews' throwback uniforms? I really like them. You're drawn to the color scheme, the pattern of the stripes. I like the white with the red with the little. Yeah, the stripes on the top.

It felt very 1950s to me. I liked it. It had a little bit of like a, it felt like a cousin of an old Ms. uniform a little bit. I don't know. I do like the helmet. There was something missing about the body of the uniform for me. I'll think on it.

Good colors, though. I loved how young everybody is. I loved Rex Benson class of 1875, the oldest St. Matthew's grad. Class of 1875. That's like almost 150 years ago. I have that in picking nits. I'm sorry.

Nobody's alive in 1875. Because he's, that makes him 98. This movie is set in 1950s. He's the oldest graduate. Yeah, he's 98. I'm sorry.

Our guy Franklin Benson is just strutton in the vehicle in the middle of the field at 98 years old. The life expectancy in 55 was what? Like in the 60s? I really respect his longevity. Sorry, Franklin. I loved it. It was a great throwback to how recently the Civil War was for these people.

It was great. Ed Louter as Brennan Fraser's dad, who's a sports movie staple. He's a young bud. He's, I mean, his most iconic one was the longest yard, the first great sports movie. He's the warden's kind of henchman guy. But he popped up in a bunch of those over the years. He's not in this that much of this. I personally would have liked to have seen him at the St. Luke's game.

Show up once, yeah. It's really far. though. You're taking a bus. It's far, but it's not that far. It's the biggest football game the kid's going to play.

Like maybe get off that work on Friday. I don't know. I also have for Wood's age the best. I just love an honor code in a movie. Like the headmaster says, it's a living thing. It cannot exist in a vacuum.

And just the concept of, you have honor who's going to cross the line. It's just good. It usually works. Just devil's advocate. The reason he has. has to say it's a living document is because it doesn't work. But that's why it's a great movie device.

It never works. That's what makes it so good. Perfect movie device. What else do you have for what stage is the best? I thought Scranton being his hometown, I feel like people still really understand what that means, mostly because of the office. But I just felt like that really worked well.

And I was like, yeah, okay, got it. Also, along with the honor code, cheating. Cheating just always is good. Just the debates that come from it, That's why honor codes are great. They lead to cheating. Everyone's in face with this. Everyone's probably cheated.

And I was just like, yeah, I get it. Cheating. Totally makes sense. And yeah, I mean, for me, just the, I wrote in all caps, bold, tweed. I mean, all the tweet was just absolutely incredible. Their coats. The men's wear in general looked fantastic. Good blazers.

You know, we already talked about the themes. Obviously, the young cast is the pick, I think. I really liked everyone in Scranton dressing like James Dean and you know you try to buy the multiplex and you see Rebel without a cause that was fun neighborhood hangouts in general like you have the luncheonette in Scranton you've got Skips Diner up in New England that was really fun youth dances this like I love seeing and and two things about it one it just made me think of like growing up record hops that was what they were called back in our town always a big deal when you got to go to a record hop and they use the the balloon in the movie to keep the distance between the dancers. We had a teacher who would walk around with a ruler to make sure you were standing far enough apart. And then the specific thrill of like the all-boys school

and all-girls school meeting up, you know, just made me think, Julietette, I'm sure you can relate to any kind of camp story. When I first started going to camp, I went to an all-girls camp, Camp Louise, and when we got to go meet up with Camp Airy, it was just a source of real joy. The Dylan fumble into the mistackle

into being used as David's rag doll on the winning touchdown. I think that if the movie came out now, the damn it Dylan moment where we just see him in profile looking utterly despondent would be an instant iconic meme. Like I think we should try to get it started as a meme now. 30 years anniversary, we could do it. Absolutely. And then I think we just have to say high school football boosterism.

Like on the one hand, I think Buddy Garrity would be rolling around. and his barbecue sauce-coated grave to see that David Green actually had to work a real job, not a fake job. That wouldn't fly down in Dillon, Texas. But the idea of going out and finding the best player and doing anything that is necessary to beat your sworn rival, love it. By the way. A tradition that spans states in decades.

It's going to be me with my son and varsity football. My son's quarterback. is graduating. I got to do something. And then this, we have to stay here we already talked about it, but Damon is the villain

like definitely goes in. It's great. And Julia made the key point. We don't think of them that way. He's a better villain. He just is. Some quickie categories for us. Okay.

A couple I didn't even tell you I was going to do. The Tom Cruise Award for most valiant attempt to emulate a normal human. Brendan Fraser trying to play quarterback when he had clearly never touched a football before, which he admits after. I actually thought he was more believable than mal date.

I'm happy to have this argument now. The funny thing, though, is he seems to think being a great quarterback is about your posture. He's very upright and mechanical, but I don't know. For the 1950s, that's kind of how most quarterbacks were. So I'm more bullish on him as a QB, even though it's clear he had no idea how football worked or what downs were, any of that stuff. But I don't know. He wasn't bad.

It wasn't like Mac Davis in North Dallas 40 or something like that. My larger issues are less about him specifically as a convincing quarterback and more about the way that the football sequences in the film go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do have to say that I think his throwing motion is strongly forcefully reminded me of Philip Rivers. Like the real I'm throwing a shot put, not a football. Right. Our motion is just disorienting. I think also just the way those scenes are shot is really bad.

it's sort of like it's like the do like freeze frame really quickly. And so like the try their attempt to do action sequences like just doesn't work. So I think that contributes to his. Yeah. It's a what's the worst is even though I like I like all football scenes. But I think they each of them needed a little more TLC. Yeah. I don't know why they zoom through them, but then we had to spend five minutes watching him dance with Sally.

Like it was like I would have just shifted it a little. Maybe a little less dance. Maybe two more football plays. Maybe let's see Matt Damon have a good football play To set up like how bad the St. Luke's game went for him I mean he couldn't have been bad He was the quarterback until Brennan Fraser showed up So we know he's a good after

And they had to go to fucking Scrant Pennsylvania To find his replacement. Fair The Denna Thieves Benny Hanna Scene Stealing location I love myself A good boarding school dorm as a movie location The six story staircase

When people can lean up over and there's just all kinds of chaos. I mean, they filmed this at a real boarding school, but I really enjoyed that. What'd you have, Mallory? I think in general, the location pick is tough for this movie because part of part of the point is that everything kind of feels and looks the same, right? You've got a lot of brick, a lot of rich wood tones and everything's just supposed to ooze wealth. But my pick is specifically the bathroom, because we talked about the brawl already, but that's not, shockingly not

the only crucial scene that takes place in the bathroom. There's the whole prior pre-dance getting ready sequence where they talk about Harvard,

chesty gets a line after taking a four-minute piss in the urinal. We get the little like poof of baby powder into Dylan's hair and there's this like playful energy even amid this

like real like palpable hate. That whole sequence is just, just wild. So the bathroom has to be my pick. I do also like the club, though. The club where they go. Yeah. You get to see the dessert cart, like the cream pies, the melting chocolate frosting,

drunk eating, giving deors scotch to a child. That's a great setting, too. Why aren't you guys mentioning the quad? The quad is the most quintessential New England thing I've ever seen. I mean, it is. But the quad looks the same and it's no different than when Neil finds out, or when Ethan Ox character finds out that Neil's dead when he said basically it looks like almost exactly the same question.

What did you have for the Big Cahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food or Drink? Because I couldn't come up with one. Is it the shot that they give Matt Damon? What do you have? Go ahead, Mal. It's the fruit. It's Magoo's fruit in the excuse me,

there's no salt on this table. I need salt for my fruit sequence because it's an actual like McGuffin and it's a key plot device that sparks this real showdown in this exchange. And it's like a part of the shaming ritual. And then also it just sparks a lot of, you know, unanswerable question fodder about Magoo's blood pressure and how many years he was

putting salt on his fruit, et cetera. So the fruit is my pick. I agree with you. Yeah. That's good. I think I also just enjoy all the waiter scenes. I feel like, again, I like when they really punctuate not just the bigotry, but the class difference.

And I feel like that's, those are really well done. Yeah. Great shot. Order a word for most cinematic shot. It's clearly the cowards. I think they do a good job with the rain, the outdoor, the way it's shot. I don't agree. I'm sorry.

I think the best one is the first time they're going to the chapel, they're walking across the quad. All of the men are wearing either navy blue or gray, except for David. He's wearing like light tan pants and he really sticks out. And it's just like a really beautiful shot showing that he's like just that one kernel that doesn't fit. Okay. The Dr. Richard Kimball inappropriate body award for somebody's body who just didn't make sense for the character.

Clearly, Affleck, where is the weightlifting equipment in 1955? So you could be that jacked. Clearly between takes, he is just jacking weights and doing all this stuff. I just think like Jack Lillane and two other people look like that in 1955. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film. Let's zoom through this is just that the French meltdown. it's essential. I know it has to be in there.

But from a rewatchability standpoint, you know it's happening. It grinds the movie to a halt. And it also wins the Ron Burger D. Flut Award for best time for a pee break. As soon as you know, McGiv's about to melt down, great time to go make some popcorn, get ready for what's happening next. I have a related, but it's a related pee break pick, but it's a different one. It's the Cleary car prank sequence.

exactly two minutes long. Unless you're Jimmy Dugan in a league of your own, you can definitely get up to pee in that span of time, right? Ample time. I just feel like that whole sequence with the car pregg feels like it's from a completely different movie. Yeah. So I don't mind missing that.

I had that in what stage is the worst. I also had in what stage is the worst. The casual racial slurs. Kind of jarring to hear like Matt Damon just drop the N-word during this movie. But it's 1955. I get it. Amy Locaine. Wow.

She's currently in prison. She had a DUI manslaughter in 2010 and is in prison right now. We'll get into her at Apex Mountain. The St. Luke's Unis? Just awful. Yeah. What the hell is going on? Those look like XFL.

They were like purple and like there's just, it's 195. I just don't think there's a lot of thought putting in this. Morewood's age the worst. HBO Max, when you click on the movie, go search for school ties and it pops up with a play it and it's got like kind of their version of the poster and Affleck is one of the four people on the poster. That's fucking bullshit. Affleck is not one of the four biggest stars of this movie.

I see you HBO Max. Seriously. This is why you're having problems right now because you're promoting Ben Affleck as one of the four stars of school ties. Come on. Get your shit together, HBO Max. Your great service. Morewood's age the worst.

Could they have just dumped the first 10 minutes of this movie and we're fine? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Could it just start off with him getting dropped off at the boarding school and we're off? He's not getting off the bus and we're good? I actually thought it also didn't completely make sense that like he didn't have other Jewish people in his life back home. Like it was sort of, it also like made it a little bit weirder that it's like he wasn't leaving like a safe space to go somewhere else. Like maybe it made him well equipped to deal with it.

But it was just kind of confusing as to why he didn't have like a community that we were aware of or like people. But I don't agree. that because I think while he has the confrontation with the biker gang, his teammates are a support, but they're a support network. Like, bears totally accepting of who he is and he's getting to, you know, he's living his life openly, like, without any hesitation. He doesn't have a version and scrant of the speech that he gets from the coach on the drive up. Like, do you have any dietary restrictions? Turn up. So, okay. Don't tell anyone anything about it.

who you are. Like, there's nothing like that down there. And then you also have the very emotional, like, really sweet farewell with his dad. And I, I like, I guess you could start there. But I think you need to see his teammates in Scranton supporting him because that's a point of contrast. I guess also the fight establishes that he fights. So you're just like, yeah, this guy will brawl.

So it's not as surprising. But I agree. A quarterback using his throwing hand, though, to get into an alley ball. Although our podcast is going to be longer than it. Andrew Lowry, who plays McGiver, his IMDB, where he's in Buffy the same year. school ties. And then he's in color of night. A big Bruce Willis erotic thriller movie after Basic Instinct. Jane March as the lead actress and Andrew Lowry is her brother. And I think it was a big role for him. And that movie's one of the worst movies the last 30 years. And then that's it.

He had his moment in it and it was kind of over. His IMDB just immediately dies. Any other would stage the worst that we haven't mentioned yet? I think how they film the football scenes. It seems like none of the cameras move. Like just throughout the movies, a lot of stationary shots. And I just think that really hurt the football scenes more than anything else. Clearly not a sports fan filming the football scenes. Yeah, there are only two. Like, we have the earlier locker room sequence of the practice setup, so there's more football.

But there are only two actual football scenes in the movie, which I guess is part of why we don't think of it so much as a football movie as opposed to a prep school movie. But yeah, you never know where you are on the field. You never know what down it is. And if you do actually find out what down it is, it is almost impossible that it is that down in distance. The ball never lands where you think it will.

It's just quite, quite, quite shameful. Well, the director, the director's name was Robert Mandel, who did, FX, was his,

was his big one. And school ties, and he kind of moves in the TV after that. He did the substitute in 96, which is a movie, I think me and Shea Serrano, like, and that's about it.

And, um, Yeah, I think I like all football scenes and all movies. Yeah. But these are not. These are four. The 120-yard throw in the first football game, I'll never get over. Was there a better title for this movie is our next category? I'm going to give you two.

Okay. Okay. You like school ties. So you're in on school ties. I just think it's a like pantheon iconic title. Flawless. Okay. No notes.

What if this movie was called Honor Code? Hmm. not as good. What if it's called Star of David? Absolutely not. It's names David. It gives you the Joe shave, no? It doesn't work.

Okay. So school ties is still our pick. All right. Ties is perfect. I feel like there was a cut scene that had more about the ties. Because we give the one tie scene at the beginning where Reese lends him the tie. And that's the only time they really talk about it. I understand the double entendre and everything.

But I feel like the ties that bind. Yeah, I get it. But I feel like there must have been another scene where that came back up and it was cut. It's just otherwise, it's just kind of random. That's like a weird throw-in scene at the beginning. Our next category I would not have unless Mallor is on the podcast. It's the Mallor Rubin Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene? Oh, my God.

I just want to say that this is the honor of my life. Parents and my journalism professors are proud. And I would like to pitch you on two things. things. First pitch, add an actual sex scene for every illusion to sex or slightly sex-adjacent moment in this movie. Okay? So you have at the beginning of the movie, Bear, talking about the handjob that he got from Kocas' sister. You know, the night before last, his sister gave me hand job. Let's just add the handjob. Flashback. Open the fucking movie with the handjob next to the luncheonette. Next, we hear McGiver and talking.

about how sex is his only reason for living. We see him alone at the dance. Cut to him peeping on his classmates as they're hooking up under the trees outside of the dance. Absolutely. Scene three, Sally and David, a little kiss as Sally's boarding the bus after their date. We hear Sally say, you're too good to him, right? When they're talking about smoking inside, well, let's break bad. Blow job in the alley. Why the fuck not? That is what this movie needs. I'll be getting back to hand jobs again shortly.

Don't you worry? Never you fear. And then when we see Sally and David dancing alone at the club, also kissing, this is after Dylan has been shunned. Go into the liquor cabinet, the coat room, something. Fuck. Come on. I just don't believe that.

these people are not having sex. This is absurd. And then my second pitch is to lean into the fact that this movie entirely centers on boys who are seniors at all boys prep school and would be thinking about sex all the time. Would be disgusting about sex, would be looking for sex any way they could, would be just clogging the drains in the communal showers with their ejaculate. We need more of this energy in the movie. Instead of stealing Cleary's car and bringing it into Cleary's room, fuck on his driver's seat, right? How about that? You're a psychotic. How about that? This is wonderful. No, no embarrassing.

Oh my God, I can't believe my roommate walked in on me masturbating scene in a prep school boarding school movie. I just simply cannot accept that or believe it. We need that scene in this movie. And then I think we can all agree after our rip-centric discussion today that it is implausal. that there would not be a rip hand job under the bleachers at some point in this film. Implausible! It's implausible that he wouldn't be in a scene of the woman.

I mean, that's completely insane altogether. He's just... Very fair. He's just shit out of smoking out girlfriend that we saw for one second. I'm with Mal. I actually think... I think they could have had some sort of bigger encounter with Brendan Frazier and Sally. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. Where they... And that Dylan finds out about it. Like, whether they go off on the dock or... and see something. Like, let's really make it so you don't, you're not on Dylan's side, obviously, but you could at least see why he would snap and become an absolute psychotic anti-smit. Anyway.

Yeah. Also, I had in what stage the worst, the chastity of this movie, it's completely ridiculous. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, 195 was a little more edgy. Yeah, people were having sex in 1955. The movie was made in 1992. Right. It's fair.

We have the best quote. I'm just skipping through this. You use me for football. You used it to get into Harvard. That wins. Teddy KGB Award for actor doing his own thing. I don't totally understand what McGivorne's doing in this movie with the sunglasses and the overcoat. And it's like this concerted attempt to make him weird.

It doesn't really work. Let's get to the Stephen A. Smith hottest take award. I've actually allowed myself too here. Okay. Julie, you start because I know you're excited. I don't think the coward scene is that. good. It's too short. It actually doesn't tell me very much. He's standing in the rain. Why? Like, you know, I understand it's dramatic, but it just, it actually contributes very little.

And if I went to the bathroom during that, I would actually miss nothing. There is nothing. Wow. Wow. I don't get. Wow. Scorcher. Wow. The, the active challenge, the knife thrust of the sign into the wall, the embrace of the elements. None of these guys would go fight them. I think that was the, we need it. They are cowering in feebleness. Yeah, I understand that, but I just think that scene is rushed.

And I think it's like been built up more in our memory than actually being a really important part of them. Fair. They spent five minutes with them dancing with Sally. They could have. Yeah. It's just extra 40 seconds on the coward scene. It's not that good.

It could have been done differently. It could have been more impactful. I just think it's, it's really rushed. and I don't know why, like, he has to be soaking wet like that. I like it, Julia, good one. What do you got, Mal? Thank you. Okay.

I don't know how you top. Are hand jobs going back? The Mallory Rubin sex scene part. No, not hand jobs, but dicks are involved. Okay. Great. Oh. If you are going to set the Charlie Dillon, David Green,

Judaism reveal confrontation in. a shower, you must bring circumcision into it. That's a great one. So I thought about this. I didn't know what the deal with the non-Jewish characters. How many, what were the circumcision rules back in 1955? Would that have been pretty clear? I was going to Google 1965 circumcised penises, but I'm on my work computer. So, you know, better not to. Letter Mallory gets suspended. I think it's a, I think it's a great point. I thought about it. All right, I have two. And they're related and I don't want, this is going to sound like I'm a little more pro-Charlie than I am.

Number one, I'm okay with Charlie Dillon's cheating. Guy needed to get into Harvard. It's a crib sheet. Who hasn't, among us, who hasn't taken some liberties in high school or college to try to gain an edge here or there? I don't know. I don't think it was the most horrifying. Of all the horrifying things he did in this movie, it doesn't crack the top five for me. I agree with you.

So there's one. Two, semi-related. David Green, maybe don't go after the girl Charlie's in love with. He already took his job. Well, Bill, he said just happened. Maybe maybe be a little bit more of a team player instead of a me player. Oh, my goodness. I do think this suggests that he's not always a great hang.

I think you got to catch him at the right time. And when he's like feeling fun. Yeah, David Green. A great hang. Good dancer. Great dancer. You're the quarterback. You can get any girl in the school.

You've already, you're already on ice with this Dylan kid. You already took his job. Maybe look elsewhere. Go to that swim practice. A lot of cute high school swimmers in that pool. Just go pick a different one. Pick a different swimmer. Boy, I liked their swimsuits.

Those were cool. Two thoughts on the Sally point here. One, once you go into full Anakin Padme, Phantom Menace. Are you an angel territory? There's no going back, right? He was smitten. He was in.

But, two, I do feel compelled to note, as Sally does, that Dylan and Sally are not together. And so there's actually no issue here. Dylan is a presumptuous, entitled. You got to ask them. Dush. But you have to ask. The guide code is you have to, when they're in the dock, be like, hey, man. what's going on with you and Sally?

Like, is she a free agent? Are you dating her? You have to bring it up. You can't be sneaky. The way that Dylan asked if he could steal Rips notes. It's not the same, Mallory. This is high school code of dibs. I'm just saying sneaky is sneaky.

Oh, my God. This is what happens in high school. You call dibs on someone and you have to ask permission. And Dylan put dibs on Sally. You guys are insane. Truly insane. No, we're not. Can we go back to the cheating point for a second?

I had a question about this. Is it, is it your understanding? because they open their desks and they're taking things in and out that they have assigned seats. Because one of my notes on the cheating is sit in the back row if you're going to hold a crib sheet in your hand, you fucking moron. I think they have assigned seats for boys school. That's why it was. Casting what ifs from that entertainment weekly oral history.

We'll skip through these quick. But Pat McCorkel, the co-cast director, said he saw over 5,000 young men, mostly on videotape. Anyone who is now between the ages of 40 and 50 audition for school ties, we, we, we, We looked for a year and a half for the David Green part. Noah Wiley, Kyle Chandler, Matthew Perry, all those kind of guys read for it. Robert Mandel, the director, said Brennan Frazier hadn't done a movie. They found him in Seattle. If you put Brennan in a group of 10 other guys, he was clearly David.

Randall Battenkoff said, I actually screen tested with Kyle Chandler, Malar his hero. He read for David. He obviously wasn't what they were looking for, but he did a great job. He and I went and had a couple cocktails at this dive bar in Hollywood. afterwards to unwind. I haven't seen him since, but things worked that well for him. Mallor, if you could build a time machine, would you go in that time machine to that dive bar

to try to meet Kyle Chandler and Randall Battenkoff having drinks at a dive bar? Would that be your number one choice? Absolutely. Yeah, top of the list. The idea of Kyle Chandler is David Green is almost too much for me to bear. It's like a brainbreaker. It's too much. I just said, oh my God.

I love him so much. And Chris O'Donnell said he was going to Boston College at the time. They were interested in him for the Charlie Dylan part. He wanted to play somebody a little more likable, which I don't know, kind of sums it up for them. The Ruffalo-Hanna-Rubeneck-Parchage Overacting Award. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady!

I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it all you got! Give it all you got! I treated you like a son. You fucking stand me in the heart. We can either give this to McGiv or we can give it to Cleary. I think it's McGivorne.

What about Michael Higgins, the history professor? The rapid fire quiz sequence and then whoever has done this has robbed you of your honor. If I ignore it, you will have robbed me of mine as well. And he's got a corgi in class with him. Great, great touch. Best that guy award. So you mentioned Zelko Ivonic, who's been in 100 million things. Most famously, he was, I think for me, the warded in Oz, but he's usually a bad guy.

He's just in everything. He's always around. But I actually knew what his name was. The football coach, who was also in eight men out. He was in Roadhouse. He was the guy who hired Dalton in Roadhouse. He was in another 48 hours. He was the guy you thought was supposed to be the bad guy.

He had this nice run. I never knew what his name was until I looked it up for the roadhouse. this movie. It's Kevin Ty. He was in one of the most formative movies of my life, not just my childhood, but the one, the only newsies starring Christian Bale. Oh, wow. He's incredibly important. I think

he wins. Can we just mention Anthony Rapp is also one of the most famous Broadway actors of all time for originating the role of Mark Cohen and Rent, which is also essential to so many young Jewish people in the New York area. And days they confused and blew the

whistle on Kevin Spacey and started Kevin Spacey's dissent into hell during the Me Too era. He's also in the Nick, which is one of my all-time favorite shows. Dion Waiters Award, it's, you know, a lot of these people are in the movie. I kind of feel like it has to be Affleck. He doesn't have a lot of lines. He might have eight lines in the movie. He stands out.

He gets shirtless. He's always doing whatever it takes, but I think it's got to be him. So Smokey Joe's Cafe scene is not the same without him shirtless in there. So I agree. recasting couch. What about Joaquin Phoenix as McGelvin? Let's go real big time actors. So now we look back and like, oh my God, look at all.

And Joaquin Phoenix was in here instead of Andrew Lowry. No? Interesting. I like it. Yeah. I'm into it. Yeah. Yeah.

Drew Barrymore and the Amy Locane character. Someone else as Sally. I was trying to think of other blondes. Reese Witherspoon's like two years, too young. What about Courtney Thorne Smith? Fellow Melrose Place alum. Oh, my God. God, that's an amazing call, Juliet.

She looked awesome in 1992. I loved her. Of course. Oh, man. It was amazing back then. Great job. You're the best, Juliet. We'll take one more break and then we'll zip through the rest of her.

All right, half faster and research was filmed at Middlesex School, which is in Concord, Massachusetts, which is a beautiful Massachusetts suburb. Really, really nice. They use some other prep schools as well. Brenner Fraser said the production crew ran out of hot water. during the shower fight and a lot of the water was cold with steam being shot in. Maybe that's why we didn't see any dicks. Trinkage, yeah.

Yeah. Mystery solved. Damon remembered the director trying to pump the young guys up by telling them they're going to be the next big thing, the next brat pack, which I thought was funny. The French assignment that McGivorne couldn't recite properly was called Unseen the Elginn't Marbles for the first time by John Keats. All of these guys in this movie tested for the same. of a woman. Literally every young actor and O'Donnell got it. So I saw this on the internet.

I don't know if it was intentional, but David's number is 42, which was Jackie Robinson's number. And then Damon's number was 21, which was half of Frazier's number with the insinuation being is like half the man. David Green was. I don't know why the quarterback's number, especially in 1955 wouldn't have been like seven, eight, eight, eight, two. 12, 14. The 42 is definitely a Jackie Robinson thing. Should have been 18. Good luck.

O'Donnell says in the oral history, we were always going up to UMass Low to lift weights with the football team to get in shape. Matt was always the strong kid. You think you better than me? Here's what Frazier said about football. Oh, I faked most of the football. I wasn't that kind of guy with rough and tumble sports.

I didn't like getting hit. It hurt. Funny afterwards, I did pretty well for the next 20 years falling down and getting hit. And then Lo Kane remembered that Brendan had kind of removed himself from the clicky fraternity thing that the rest of the guys were in. He could have done it just for the character, but I remember that was sort of interesting. I think Brennan Fraser maybe not a great hang.

No. We went back and read Zach Barron's profile of him in GQ from 2018. Classic. Yeah, a good one. You know, anyone who has like just an archery setup in their backyard, and unwinds by getting their leather quiver and just shooting some arrows in their backyard might not be the most fun person to be around.

But he seems like a nice guy. I also just want to note, he lives in Bedford, New York, where Matt Damon, per page six, just bought a home. So they live in the same place. Reunion. Apex Mountain. Brendan Fraser, no.

What do you think is his Apex Mountain? I mean, he led the mummy. That movie made like $300 million. Love Rachel Weiss. She's the best. Oh my God. She's one of my all-time. Me too.

Love her. Matt Damon, no. Randall Battenkopf. I'm going to say yes because he had Buffy the same year. How's her afluck all those other guys know? Naked shower fights? So we say Eastern Promises? Fair.

Casual anti-Semitism movies? Casual? I think it's pretty high up there. Did you guys ever see Swing Kids? Those are those are the two that I really think of that go together. And also Robert Sean Leonard is in that. one. So that's sort of why I think I mentioned him before. Amy Locane, it's both Apex Mountain and Nadir Valley for her. Because this movie comes out and then she gets fired from Melrose Place and then

nothing happens to her career. And then pretty much fizzles out and then ends up being in jail. And it's not great. What about New England boarding school movies? Dead poets? Dead poets. Yeah. That's got to be number one. Still feel like dead poets. Yeah. Any other Apex Mountains? French class? Yeah. I don't think so. Best racehorse name.

Skip Steiner? Who? What do you have, Mal? Kokes' sister. That's good. That's good. I like that. Pickin' Nits.

How did Dylan's brother come to the St. Luke's game if he was also playing football for Harvard? Same day. It's football season. He didn't have a game? They should have had the game on Friday night, right? Like, that's when they do high school football. No, they had no lights back then. You couldn't do it.

Yeah. That's a great question. Maybe they had a buy. Sketchy. Once again, the sports movie coordinator could have helped. They had been asked. How did they get Cleary's car inside the dorm? That was like, yeah.

It's impossible. You can't even fucking get a couch at a dorm. To get it in at all, ridiculous. But that quickly, again, this is like, he starts going to walk and then just stops and turns around. and it didn't appear that they broke any windows or doors. Maybe if the movie is remastered in 8K one day, we'll be able to see some shards of glass in the back

and learn some great truth here, but confounding. I totally agree. Mention 42 is the QB number and then the 120-yard pass. What else do you have, Juliet? When Brendan Fraser inexplicably is allowed into the pool to confront Sally, which literally makes, makes no sense. That is my first knit. My second knit is that I was incredibly distracted

to how the beads of water on her face did not move. Like they were just stationary on her cheeks. And I was like, how many times did they film this scene they had to like, you know, keep reapplying the water? It was, it was so weird. But I think all the logistics of boarding school, I'm like, okay, so Lysa out at 10, but he's able to go out for a date. Like, how does this work? Yeah, it doesn't work that way. I'll tell you that much. And also, I just don't think a man in 195 can just stroll into swim practice, but call me crazy. The swim practice one's a good one. I thought I agree with Mal there should have been the hint of at least more sex than this movie.

I don't think everybody was just... A playboy magazine or even? I don't think first base was the only base you got to in 1955. Barely first base. First base no tongue. I mean, so lame. Yeah. The movie needed sex. I have another picking knit. you know, Dylan doesn't even wait to hear the first snore from Rip until he steals his notes

and loudly begins to rifle through the pages on the heels of saying to him, hello, I would like to declare my intention to steal your work. Are you sure your notes are right? Like, not exactly a criminal mastermind this guy. And relatedly, Mr. Gyrish, the history teacher,

is watching when, when Jack Conner's knocks in to Charlie Dylan hits him into the wall. They have their whole little cute little scuffle, right? He's the teacher smiling. Oh, these boys. Why does this matter? Because he sees that Dylan drops all of his books and then has to reach down to pick them up. Point two seconds later, he sees the piece of paper on the ground, but can not deduce that it came from Charlie Dylan?

I think that should have been his first guess. I don't know. This is one of our great minds? You can't assume it, but that should be your first stop as you just go straight to Charlie and you ask him as a responsible teacher. Next category is sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

First of all, the all black cast version of school ties. It would be incredible. But I wrote this in 2011. You could pretty easily turn it into a television show, set it at a rich New England prep school in 1950s, make everyone 11th graders, build the first season around Fraser turning the football team around.

while becoming best friends with Damon, falling for the girl Damon loves, hiding the fact that he's Jewish is the dramatic tension that it connects the episodes. And you just go. And the secret is just kept all through 11th grade, their buddies, we go to the summer. I rereading that.

I kind of talked myself into this. I think this would work. There's no academic campus, like book, movie or TV show that I don't want to be a part of. I love them all. I don't know why there isn't so much more as a child, a different world was my favorite TV show.

Like, I just want to be on campus. Like, give me a channel called On Campus. And it's all movies and TV shows that are people at some kind of academic institution. And if they, and when they're casting it, they could make a big deal like they do with this movie. We looked at 5,000 young boys. Like, I don't know, I would watch that one. Mal, you would watch that. Come on, who are you kidding?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Mal would need somebody to have a superpower. Somebody, one of the kids can fly, but we don't find out those seasons too. Here's my other idea. This is for a sequel. Okay. Set in like the 1984 range. We catch up with Rip Van Kelt.

He's now running for president against Rahman Reagan in 1984. He's had an unbelievable career. Incredible moral compass. He's the future we need. You know, we lost JFK. We lost some of our leaders in the 60s and 70s. Here comes Rip Van Kelt.

He's going to save everything. I talked myself into it. Great cardigans. Yeah. I would watch. I'm more interested in the sequel where we follow Jack Connors to the Dutton Yellowstone Ranch.

Fair. Just one Oscar who gets it. I think I'd give it to Damon. I'd give it to Damon too, but I just want to say, I think Chris O'Donnell is really good in this movie. Actually, I feel like he... Pretty sure is really good.

I understand why he got sensible women. He's just like... He's very good in this. I feel like, you know, he would be my second contender for Dion Waders, actually. So if we were doing like a, you know, a second Oscar for supporting, I pick him. Fair. Probably in answerable questions.

We cover this a little, but why the hell did they fight in the shower? They could have been brushing their teeth. They could have been shaving. I just don't understand the naked shower fight. I literally don't understand. I didn't understand when I was watching it. I don't understand the upside. It's just very strange.

It's a very strange decision for a movie. It's really weird. Also, why don't they slip? Like, you know, it's not like an easy place. to fight aside from all the other stuff. Like, they're dangerous. That's like that in the car. The two just, you know, they just don't get it.

Mallory, what was the gambling line on the St. Luke's game? I had St. Luke's by three and a half, even though it was a road game for them. They'd won a lot of years in a row. Yeah, right. Yeah, they're on the win streak. Ooh, but they'd be factoring in. The David Greenpeace, but he hadn't really played in a big game yet. I don't know.

they were on a win streak at that point. They had a little season cooking. Also, every game is like, you know, 9 to 7, 13 to 9. Like, this is the game film that Nick Saban shows when he makes his, are we sure we want this, this is what we want football to be like anti-spread offense speech? So I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess that feels right. St. Luke's by two and a half?

Two and a half. Yeah, three feels high, I think. Julia, what happened to Randall Battencough? Why didn't he make it? I don't know. it's really devastating. What was he missing? As you were talking, he needed a JFK vehicle. He should have just owned this lane of like stately New England guy and he should have gotten to like play JFK or some kind of like Kennedy's altering history. It really disappoints me. I was like,

you know, he's just a really handsome man with some great sweaters. Love that guy. Any other answer some questions? We hit a lot already. I have one to a couple quick ones to throw out to you. Do you guys think that Mr. Cleary had ever actually been to France? Like I've thinking about this a lot. It's not just that he's teaching French and has embraced the culture. And hey, that's great. Like, I'm an anglophile. I love England, right? But, you know, he's wearing brays, really, like, adopting the culture. Do you think this guy has ever actually been to Perry? I'm going to say no. I need to know. Yeah, I don't think so either. I don't think so either. He gets the classic guy who's teaching at a boarding school talking out of his ass.

Just one other question about him. Why didn't he get fired? Like, if you send a kid into a, like a breakdown like that. Shouldn't you be fired as well as the kid leaving? Also, that was a very public call out too, you know? You did this. I liked it. I also was just like, can we get a clinical diagnosis

and what happened with McGivorne? Because I'm just, you know, I need to know more about what happened here. Which is something of a nervous breakdown. Yeah, nervous breakdown, right? When he grabbed the bucket, I thought he was, I was like, did he hang himself? And I forgot, but no. It was bizarre.

What do you guys think happens when David Green and Charlie Dylan inevitably run into each other at Harvard? Oh, that's a good Indian Red Zawatneo. What happened the next day? I guess it's what happened the next year. Yeah, they both get into Harvard, right? Well, you know, Dylan made his big speech, right? And surely what happened the next day is that his father immediately got him into another prestigious prep school in a neighboring New England state, surely, right? Yeah.

And David has made his big mic drop. speech about how he'll be using the school St. Matt's to get into Harvard. So I think they're going to meet. I think David plays quarterback for the Crimson. Yeah. That's our sequel. I love it. And Charlie's just trying to undermine him.

And meanwhile, Mark Zuckerberg's there trying to create Facebook, even though it's 1957. I think David goes to Yale. I don't think he goes to Harvard. I think he chooses a different school. But Harvard, hmm. And I think they play the Harvard Yale game. They meet on the football field over the course of four years, even though, Charlie sucks. Another thing his father did for him.

By the way, for the TV show, this is season four, five, and six. We're now, now getting in the 1960s. Somebody start getting a little madman action. Somebody starts getting long hair. Best double feature choice with this movie. Juliet, would you go Dead Poets Society or Swing Kids? I am going to go Liberty Heights, the other foundational Jewish movie that everybody fucking loves. There's Munich, Liberty Heights, and School Ties. Those are the three. What's the fourth for our Mount Rushmore? Of Jewish movies.

Everybody loves Jewish movies. Yeah, I'm thinking. I mean, those are like really, really big. Not shining through with Melanie Griffith? No. You know, there's the whole like neurosi side of the... Was Woody Allen's like been, is he canceled out of Mount Rushmore now? Or does that stand? Maybe we don't litigate that in this podcast. Yeah, I think that's for another time. But that is, that's a lot more about like, you know, the announcement. analysis culture and therapy culture. Yeah, that's a different, Mount Rushmore.

Struggle. I can't think of a fourth off the top of my head, but those three are like so, I've just like, every Jewish person is like, yeah, I love those movies. They're really good. Not Munich? You wouldn't throw Munich in as the fourth? Munich, Liberty Heights and school ties are the three, I think. Mao?

What I forget. Oh, yeah, you said Munich already. I'm just going to say, I'm going to pair this with Goodwill Hunting. The other option I considered was dead poet society for the obvious reasons. but I think watching this and then going right into Goodwill hunting back to back would be quite a way to spend an evening. Wonderful. That's great.

I like that call. I think that's the best one. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I'll offer you David Green's Game War on No, 42 Jersey. No, thanks. The Matt Damon crib sheet. Oh, that's a good one. Or the big St. Matthew's pennant that David and Chris O'Donnell had in their room.

I want the Band-Aid box, man. Give me that iconic hiding spot. With the star David? Yeah. Both. Oh, interesting. I really want the box for my own, like to, you know, keep my own secrets. Love that.

That's a great one. I like the helmet. I want the helmet. I want David Green's football helmet. That's my pick. My second choice is a rip sweater from the deliberation scene with the scent of him still on it. Oh, God. The Coach Finstock Award for Life Lesson.

Do a better job hiding your holding on to your crib sheet. not hard. You go with that? Yeah. Not hard. Just cheat better. Bill, we're in support of cheating and honor codes here. I think it's whatever,

whatever Colhouser says at the end. Maybe you have to look within about prejudice. That's a good one. Instead of just assuming everybody's like everybody, you know what? I'd never spent time with one before, but yeah, he's a good guy. maybe think about your own feelings about prejudice

before you become prejudicial. I think it would be a good life lesson from this. I think David has a couple good life lessons. You know, we've already talked about the lines, but I wonder how meek they'll be when they do, sir, and you use me for football, use you to get into Harvard. Like, you know, that's the best life lesson.

Use the people who are trying to use you. Yeah. You know? It's great. Who won the movie? Wait, what about better with? We're not doing better with? No, I dumped everything.

We're going to who won the movie. I can't believe you don't want to talk about Wayne Jenkins being in this movie. I can't do the Wayne Jenkins category without Chris anymore. Wow. Okay. I didn't know we had Super QB here today. Wayne Jenkins just went out of word every time. All right.

Who won the movie, Juliet? I think I got to go with Matt Damon. I really, I just think the long view. and he's so good as the villain. I think it's Matt Damon. I really do love Brendan Fraser. Brendan Fraser's dancing is like just so revelatory. But I just said, Matt Damon's really good in this.

And I just like have a soft spot for Matt Damon. The podcast we played earlier is my favorite podcast in the history of audio. So I love the guy. I have a, I do not have Matt Damon because Matt Damon says himself that he didn't win the movie. Okay. If the person who were saying might have won the movie, is telling us he didn't win the movie, then I can't give it to him.

I think it's Brendan Frazier. I don't think he's ever been more likable or better in a movie. And I do think whatever happened with his career over the next few years, I think it was because he was really good in this. He's really good in this movie. And if he's not really good in this movie,

the movie doesn't work. I think you can get, the damon character can't totally work and the movie still works, but you have to believe David Green. You have to believe he's big and physical and that he can get fights. And Mal mentioned like the scene

when on Rosh Hashanah, like, he had a way of like kind of smoldering and kind of hiding his anger on stuff that's really good. I just think everything he does in this movie is really smart. Yeah. Yeah. Frazier's my pick too. It's a really great performance that is, I think, like deceptively nuanced and multi-note. I will just throw out, though, Pat McCorkle and the casting team because assembling this cast is like an all-time feat. And even though the movie didn't find an audience in the moment, it's become this cherished thing. Yeah. In part because of what we talked about earlier, like what a treat it is to go revisit

it and see these people when they were, I mean, Colehouser was like 17 when he made this movie. He's so unbelievable. And also, we didn't mention how a bunch of them popped up in Days and Confused, too. So this movie had tentacles where some Goodwill hunting DNA, some Days and Confused DNA and so on. right, this is the point of the movie where we bring, or point of the podcast, we bring him producer Craig to discuss a movie. He's never seen until we told him what we were doing for the rewatchables. Craig, there's no way you didn't love this movie. Correct. I love this movie. It was great. You had no, no, knew nothing had no background with it? No, not at all. And I completely, I'm very, I stand with Juliet about, there needs to be just like a whole school campus universe of movies and TV shows. I love every single movie or TV shows. I love every single movie or TV.

set in a school. My one problem with this movie was I didn't think the payoff at the end was that fulfilling for David Green. Maybe that's the point that like wealth and privilege win, but he didn't really get any revenge. He called him a prick and then goes back to the school and everyone's going to just shut on him for being Jewish for the next year, besides Chris O'Donnell, I guess. But like, I don't know. He didn't really win. He didn't get expelled for not cheating. Great. Yeah, I think he could have been harsher with his last line. It always felt like it wasn't quite harsh enough. Like him walking back to like across the quad, I felt sad for him.

I was like, okay. Maybe that was the point. Yeah, exactly. But maybe that's the point is you couldn't 100% totally win in 195 of your Jewish in the East Coast, no matter how many things you had gone for him. Yeah. What was it like to see people that we've done like Damon and Afik, all these people, Cole Hazard that are now like these adults who have been in all these

things and you're seeing them as 17 year olds, the experience of that. It was weird. Damon was 22 in this. It's weird seeing, I feel like young Damon was such an asshole. And that's how I know him now because of Mr. Ripley and this.

My opinion on Matt Damon's changing a little bit just because I've usually only seen him as like a good guy. Yeah. Yeah, his 92 to 98 was really diverse some of the roles he had. I mean, he lost all that weight and courage under fire. He was in a bunch of stuff.

All right. I'm glad you liked it. I'm not surprised though. Great movie. How did you feel about the full? football scenes. They're terrible. I just love all football seeds.

Who was it that dropped the past? Was it ripped that dropped the past? Yeah. That was tough. His only mistake. He was a rough one. Should have used him more. He had great size.

Yeah, he was like an Antonio Gates, young Antonio Gates, six foot six tied in. All right, this podcast was produced by Craig Horleback. Julieta Mallory. It was a pleasure and a privilege. It was great to see you. The joy was ours. Thank you so much, Bell.

And we'll see you next week in the rewatches.