The Rewatchables - ‘Shampoo’ With Bill Simmons, Cameron Crowe, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey are joined by writer-director Cameron Crowe to discuss one of his favorite movies, ‘Shampoo,’ starring Warren Beatty, Julie Christie, Jack Warden, and Goldie Hawn. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, and Eduardo Ocampo A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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with Sean Fantasy. Oscar season. Yeah, sure. What's your leading contender now for best picture? One battle after another. Okay. That's the favorite? I think so.

All right. Camra Crow is here. You've never done the rewatchables. I have not. You've had movies on the rewatchables, including a movie we haven't done yet that is the most asked why have you done this yet movie,

almost famous. But as I always told people, it'll be the last movie we do. It asked not just by fans of the show, but by many employees of the ringer. When are we doing Almost Famous? It's also the one that the most people who work for the ringer have demanded to be on,

which is really going to cause some problems. But regardless, and you have a new book. The Uncool. I do. But let me thank you for the honor of the almost famous rewatchables pantheon spot. I appreciate that. It's the walk-off Homer.

But we asked you, I didn't want you to have you on my real podcast because you've already been on it. I have. I was like, yeah, do the Relightful. Delightfully, I must say. Really enjoyed it. it asked you for a pick and you pick shampoo and we're going to do that next.

This episode of the rewatchables is presented by State Farm. Whether you're debating watching that award-winning sports drama or re-watching your comfort buddy comedy movie for the 10th time, choices are important. When it comes to choosing coverage, a State Farm agent can help you find options that are right for you. Go online at StateFarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.

All right, shampoo came out in 1975. This was your pick. Why? I really started coming on to movies that spoke to the era that I felt we were in. And I loved Mike Nichols movie, you know, the graduate and carnal knowledge and stuff. But shampoo kind of bubbled up into this place where the music was great. I loved the interconnection between the characters. And I just thought, like, here's a new generation really in play of movie makers that I'm going to love. And I've gone back through it over the years.

It's fun to talk about. I chose it for us. So how old were you when Shampoo comes out? Are you in high school yet? I think 18. Yeah. Okay. And it was iconic in the moment, you know,

because Warren Beatty, who was known to be a womanizer and stuff, a ladies man par excellence, was playing this hairdresser who was using the fact that he was a straight hairdresser to, you know, sleep with, you know, all the way. women in his in his friend group and the the complications that happened as a result of that um i just thought like magnificently handled by robert town hal ashby was already my favorite director so this was the third in a run for hal ashby uh that starts with harold and maud so it's harold and maud last detail and then shampoo and you're like wow this guy can do a ton of different stuff the actors love

the words are great, and the music is epic. So I bring it into the lair to discuss. Good music. Sean, what's your relationship with this movie? I was negative seven years old when the film was released, so I don't have that same in the moment connection to it, but the 1970s is my favorite period of American filmmaking. Hal Ashby is one of my favorite filmmakers as well.

Robert Town is also in the middle of an insane. sane run. And so like when you're getting your film education as a young person, as I was probably a teenager when I really started diving in all these movies, um, this is one of the big signposts. This is one of the most meaningful generational movies because it's a huge hit.

Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, politically relevant. It's sexually and socially relevant. Yeah. It's a huge movie star movie and a movie star persona movie. A movie star actively riffing on their persona. So it's got all this squishy fun

stuff to dig into as a fan. And it's also very watchable and funny. You know, it's not a slog. It's not difficult in any way. It's not homework. It's, it's a popcorn movie about its time, which is a very hard thing to pull off. So I've always really liked it. And I'm stoked for talking about it. That's great. It's funny characters, really funny characters. Well, I go through the teenager with cable version of the arc of this movie, where you watch it the first time and it's like, these women are hot. Is there going to be some nudity? Can they have shown more of the sex scene? And then you get older and you're like,

this movie's really, then you get into, you go to college and you get into that, I'm now a film critic. I now have thoughts on how they make films. It was like, well, some really interesting choices in here. But you're thinking like, ah, this guy's trying to get late.

It's a really funny movie. And then as you get a little older, you're like, oh, there's some layers to this. Yeah. Now I watch this in my 50s and it's not a sex comedy at all. It's really about the late 60s

and all of these different things. things going on. It's all stealth underneath. And it's so cool how it's pretending to be three different movies when it's really the fourth movie. That's really well said. And the way he lays in politics and Nixon's being reelected the night of all this. And it's just, there's no dogma. There's no like, you know, hitting it on the head with the, the generation is changing. It's like, it's just there. He's just like Nixon is in scenes and stuff. And actively, like, in a scene, you can just see him. He's so big large that he's right, right, right? in there with Beatty. It's brilliant.

So you've nixed it in there, but you also, it's like what you said about with, they're not overt about this generation does not fit in with this younger generation. It's the little stuff like Jack Warden, she's like, oh, in the hot tub. Yeah, come on in, dude. And he's like, and he's just fumbling

around. It's so funny to watch him at the party just awkwardly fit in. I don't, I don't feel like movies do that enough anymore. Where they'll try to bang you over the head with that versus like this very subtle But that's kind of the point of the movie, right? The point of the movie is all of this stuff is happening.

Right. The world is happening and unfolding. And decisions about how power operates is happening. But in Beverly Hills and in 1968 and today, people, myself included, are just trying to get through their day. They've got their own concerns. They've got their own shit going on. They're trying to open salons. You know, they're trying to record podcasts.

Like, I got a lot of stuff I got to do. I can't actually participate civic. in the way that maybe I should be. And it's like empathetic about that struggle, but also most of the characters are kind of buffoonish in a way, too. And it likes them, but it also sees that they're really flawed. Yeah. And it's trying to balance this very delicate thing

if it's not trying to hector you about what your politics should be. It's not trying to hector the characters about their failure to identify those things because everyone has kind of been somehow invoked in this. But you do walk away watching it a second or third time thinking, like, hmm, we're like a little fucked, you know? Like, there's definitely, it does have kind of, there's a very bummer ending in this movie that is really interesting to talk about too.

Yeah. So it's not just a sex comedy and it's not just a political observation. It is this weird fusion, this mutant idea that is very rare in movies, I think. Is it a Brevura performance from Beatty? Or is it quietly Brevura? This is the thing that I always wonder because it's so kind of like, huh he floats through these scenes he has great stuff to say but like it's kind of like well some say that's what he was like in that in that in the day just his his uh seduction is in fact how he's

kind of slightly bewildered by what's happening but i'm incredibly handsome that like help me figure out how i'm going to sleep with you but i'm just i got other things that are bothering me and you know and it's like they all fall for it Yeah, I wonder, he's one of those actors where you don't know where the person stops and the actor begins. Like, huge for that. Basically, heaven can wait, which we did a few months ago on rewatchables. I'm not sure there's any difference with this character and Joe Pendleton because I think... That's so funny.

He just kind of bleeds into whoever he's doing. But I think this is what he's really like. Women liked him. He was always stumbling from one place to the next. Like, when he made this movie, apparently he didn't have... He'd just bought a house. He didn't even have anywhere to live. Right.

And he would just bounce around and have this different relationship. Right. The Beverly Wilshire. Right. So this guy's on a triumph motorcycle. He's dating like five people at once. And he's just kind of bouncing around. I think that was him. It's hard to know if he's incredibly enigmatic or extremely clear to us.

Because he's only given five movie performances in the last 40 years. I mean, he doesn't really work very often. It's usually only in films that he directs. He didn't direct this movie, but he clearly had a huge hand in making it. Right. And so it does seem like in this movie, movie in Heaven Can Wait, a little less so in Reds and in Dick Tracy, but even in Bullworth, it's kind of the similar persona that you're talking about, the sort of like bumbling person

in charge, but he looks like Warren Beatty. And so, like, some great stars are like that. With a hairdo. Yeah. Well, he's very handsome dude, tall, strong. Like, not like, I worked out with a personal trainer to do, like, you can see in some of the scenes, like there's a physicality to him. Yeah.

And you can kind of see it with every woman like, oh, they're not going to be able to resist this guy, which I think is a really hard place to get to. Like even in almost famous, like, Russell Hammond had that. You could be like, I see it. Yeah, yeah. I totally, I would not want to leave my girlfriend alone with this guy for 10 minutes. Like some people had that, but that was basically Beatty's entire 70s where you're like, I see it. No question.

He gives himself like a showcase moment in the bathroom scene where he's like, you know, cutting Felicia's. Is it Felicia? Jackie. Jackie's hair. So he's cutting Jackie. hair, but he gives himself a moment where he preens just a little bit. You see the physique. You see this, like, freaking belt

and his turquoise and his necklace and everything. And his ass is in the mirror reflected behind it. It shows a little ass crack. Okay, we get this. It's three seconds, but you know, you're here for the three seconds and you know what you're trying to do. Yeah. And so it's fascinating. There's a

cool little Easter egg of a piece of information that I thought I'd share with you guys. Oh. So Paul Simon was like the hottest guy around at that time for doing, you know, a song for a movie. Yeah. Sounds of silence, graduate, all that stuff. So Bady really was looking for a song to end the movie, but he was also looking for a score from Paul Simon. And I guess we can look it up, but I guess there was quite a dance to get the new song from Paul Simon or the new score.

But ultimately all he came up with was do-da-do, which plays. throughout the movie in every possible way. It's just, but it's just, do-da-do. That's all it is. It's very strange. It's very strange. So meanwhile, I guess Beatty is dating or is about to date Joni Mitchell. And he asks Joni Mitchell for a song.

And Joni Mitchell writes a song called Sweetbird, as in Sweet Bird of Youth, that references kind of the iconography of Beatty and splendor in the grass. I mean, it's a seriously insightful song about the persona and the character. And he heard it and he's like, ha-uh, no, no, no, no, no. Great song, not great for this movie. And if you listen to the song and think about what the power of a song like that would have been over the last scene, it's not the bumbling guy. The movie would know that that was a persona under which was incredible insecurity and doubt. But he was like, no, no, no, no, don't need that.

song in the movie. I'll take do-da-do. Right. And so it's fascinating. Well, didn't Carly Simon write you're so vain too about him? Supposedly, yeah.

That was always the rumor. Yeah. Well, if you get too real, a good song, not for me. I think if you were an attractive celebrity in the 70s, you definitely climbed in the ring with Beatty at least one night

and were circled by him. I don't know if anything happened. I think you, I think you, there was always a moment where he's probably like, oh, you. Yeah. Haven't met you yet. How are you?

I'm Warren Beatty. And just did the Warren Beatty thing on them. And then, I mean, in this movie, he's breaking up with Julie Christie. He's starting to date Michelle Phillips, who had just broken up with Jack Nicholson. He's propositioning everybody in the mess. Like, he's just, but I think he did it in the same way that the shampoo character does it, where it's, it never feels like he's going for it. It's just kind of, oh, I do.

And then he's stumbling into yet another thing. It's so funny too because I think a lot of critics and academics read the movie as kind of an end of the free love era. Correct. You know, 68 being this critical time and everything that's coming soon. But Warren Beatty is still living in the free love era at this

time. It hasn't closed for him. So he said the book that was written about him, which is really good by Biscan, it's called Star. Beatty's explanation for the movie was Vietnam polarized the town. Shimpu's audience was the audience that didn't want to go to war that used every means

to end the war, then Watergate destroyed authority in the country and did trust in politicians. What Shampo had to say was our generation at the time had to say about America, which is we're not being honest about the way we're governed. Our leaders are not being honest. We're not honest about what we stand for. I don't think the people today remember very clearly the heat of political passion that existed during this period. Now nobody gives a shit. Now he said this 15, 20 years ago. Interesting. Kind of still the case to some degree, right? Interesting. And I, To me, the big theme of this movie is selling out, right? It's people that maybe they could shape what's happening,

but they're like, they're kind of good with their lives. I like my house. Yeah, yeah. I'll end up with Jack Warden, even though he's way older than me, and I'm still in love with this other guy, but I'll have a better life with this person. That, to me, is the theme of the movie. Yeah, and Jill, Goldie Hahn's character, really ends up being the one that, like, prized herself out of that,

cycle in a cool way. We never know. With the guy of the mustache. Yeah. Tony Bill. What is it? Johnny Pope. The director of the director of the neckerchief.

But we never know if she sleeps with him. We never know if she gets the job to go to Egypt that he's dangling. All we know is that she opts out of the, of the, the, the, the Beatty stew of people who are selling out to one degree or another. And it's interesting because even as a little little. guy seeing it, I knew that Goldie Hawn's character was my favorite character, even though he doesn't really profess love to her in the movie. And it's just kind of subtly put in there that she takes off in a heroic way and actually is the only truth-telling character to George.

Like she's the one that says, you are not real, you're a phony, be true to yourself. And he just, not only doesn't he take it, he really doesn't take it. and barely is believable when he professes a kind of love to her later in the movie. It's an interesting character, but I think Goldie steals the movie. She's great. She's the only non-cynic in the movie. Yeah. Every other character has been betrayed or been lied to in a way that was so unforgivable that they then have metastasized it.

She still feels like she's pure. She's at the beginning of something. So maybe... Well, she gets the only real answer out of him, right? And he's like, yeah, I just like having sex with people. Yeah. All of them. Guilty.

Yeah. I fucked them all. Yeah. Well, I have to ask because there's definitely a lot of DNA tissue for almost famous, right? Where you have, there's a big party scene. There's Goldie Hawn. You have the daughter who, Goldie Hawn, I think, would have been Penny Lane 25 years earlier. No question.

You have the selling out piece. Like, obviously, you see this movie. You love it when you're 18. And then that stuff gets sprinkled. When you have the ability. he'd make a movie. But what did you take from it? Well, I'll tell you,

great question. When Goldiehan, Jill, discovers the earring, you know, in an early scene and realizes that he's fucking all of the people. Everyone's in play.

You guys, that moment, and I didn't even realize until I watched Shampoo again recently, the moment where Goldiehan goes through the realization cycle is so much like Kate and almost famous, what kind of beer. Right.

And I wanted that kind of moment and didn't even realize that I was going for a moment that her mother had patented in that movie because he leaves the camera on her. He lets, you know, Ashby leaves the camera on Goldie and lets her go through it. And it's fucking amazing.

And Kate does it too. And Kate's also great. in her new movie, this Song Song Blue movie. She channels the same kind of reality as Goldie and Shampoo. She's great. It's so funny that Kate like basically is replicating

this Goldie persona. It's almost like when Kobe was like, I love Michael Jordan, I'm just going to... But in this case, they're related, so it makes way more sense. But it's just funny. Like, I was watching Goldie Hawn in this movie thinking like Kate probably could have been the character in this movie, right? I don't know another parent.

daughter slash son thing where the people you could just see them switching parts for like 10 years of movies basically. Rachel Benson and starts podcasting. That's when it's going to happen. My son takes my job. Can we go back to Beatty for one second?

Let's do it. So we did this a little bit in the last heaven can wait. It's about like how aware he was of who he was and what he should be in a movie and what he shouldn't be in a movie. Oh yeah.

There's stuff like, did he ever really get in a fist fight with anybody in a movie? Was he ever a bad guy? There's a struggle in the parallax view. Right. In the apartment, I can remember. Yeah.

A brief struggle. He always was kind of close to himself, but we did this the last time all the movies he turned down. He turned down in the Sundance Kid, Michael Corleone, Gordon Gecko, Jack Horner. He turned down the Sting, Great Gatsby, Superman Splash, Big. Turned down Dave, indecent proposal, which I think would have been great. Kill Bill and Kill Bill and Misery. And that's all in 20 years. He turned all those down because he was like...

He was almost like he didn't want to take risks. He would have been great in like 90% of those too. You can see why the writers and filmmakers wanted him for those parts. So interesting. If he's an indecent proposal, that movie's amazing. Yeah. Because it's like... She might not come back.

Like, this could be... Amazing. Wow. And then the other one he did that that he's actually in, that's really fascinating. And then I might want to do him rewatchable at some point. truth or dare when he's dating Madonna. And he's in there as Warren Beatty, like kind of interacting with her world

and he's so confused by it. Not a performance, though, but a performance. Like, you can measure... But you can measure what his screen persona is against that documentary and the fact that there is not such a wide barrier between those two things. So what's his best? What's his number one performance for you? Oh, wow.

Sean's going to go stealthy. with his pick. I'm just warning. I'm going to go shampoo. I like it. Yeah. Yeah, I really like it. I think his best movie acting is probably Reds, and it feels the furthest away from what he actually is. It's a good point. And he holds

that big movie like that on his shoulders, but I would rather watch this movie any day that week. I love Parallax View as well. Yeah, I would go shampoo as well, only because I can't imagine anyone else playing this part. And he lassoes that thing that we're talking about. And he's also running the movie right. Yeah, right. At the same time.

There is no movie without him, right? He's in all of the movie. So I love it. I need to know more about his relationship with Ashby making the movie. I wonder if it was, you know... There's a lot of good stuff written about that. And the two Biscan books about... Hard to tell how much he took over the movie,

but he definitely did. And it felt like on the set, there's too many... It didn't sound like a very happy set. And there was multiple people kind of weighing in. And then I think Ashby, everybody would always say, like, the editing was like the... He was just the... the master in the editing room.

And that was probably where he had the biggest impact on it. But it sounded like on the set. Have you ever had a situation like that where you're making a movie and somebody you're making the movie? You don't have to say who it was, but somebody that you're making the movie with had kind kind of too big of a voice. Or tried to have too big voice. Yeah, it's happened.

Yeah. And, you know, you take a walk with the person and you talk to him about it or you, you know, have a beer afterwards and talk to them and just, you know, be a player coach and just like you know, give me your opinions. Let's talk about all of it. I'm a really collaborative person. But it doesn't have to spill into a public jousting, you know? Right.

I can't believe if Cruz did this. Like, what a dick. You know, what I can say. He actually was the furthest away from this. Because when he had agreed to Jerry McGuire, well, actually, when we were talking about him for Jerry McGuire, like, all my friends were whispering, like, oh, you know, you just, the keys to the kingdom go to him immediately. that. You'll barely get a parking space.

This is like, it's gone. You don't have it anymore. Yeah, he'll be in your movie, but you know, you can stay home. It's like these were the kind of wraps that I got. But when Cruz read the script, he called and said, I love this script. I really relate to this guy. He was in England doing eyes wide shut,

and he said, how about if I fly out there and just read it for you guys and you can tell me if you like it? So I called all my friends back and said, he wants to audition. And they're like, well, he's cool. And he's like the most famous under 35 actor in the world at this point. Yeah, and he did fly in, and he sat in a chair, and he read it out loud for us.

And we were like, holy fuck. I was playing Magic Bus by The Who, the song that opens the movie, and he's reading it. And it was just like the voice in my head when I wrote it, except better. And immediately, and maybe he just knew this, that, you know, giving you a taste of that. you were going to do everything you possibly could to keep him in the part and make the movie, and that's the movie. And then the business of it all happens, which is pretty easy. But he was not going to spackle himself into a project that he didn't feel was right for everybody involved. He's, you know, he's a guy who's at the top of the call sheet who isn't the person that tries to influence everything.

He says, I don't want to be a director. But I'll show up, you know, on off days to do, you know, off-camera. stuff where I'm not even on camera for Jay Moore or someone like that. And their minds are blown because he knows their lines and his lines too. That's who he is. It's, oh, go ahead. I have a question about Jerry McGuire related to shampoo. So one of the things that's really interesting about this movie is that it's a recent history movie.

It's like it's set seven years in the past, but it's essentially attempting to capture something that we understand. Jerry McGuire is like very similar. It's a present day movie, something you're, you were creating a world that. had to be really close to our world for people to buy it. And that feels really hard to do. Like, Shampoo does it really well. The Beverly Hills of 1968, which still kind of looks like the Beverly Hills of right now. It feels like a real place, shot on location.

Like, Jerry McGuire feels like it's happening in the world of sports and sports agencies. Like, how do you do that? How do you make something feel real? I think, like, try and get the details, right? Like, do your best to have the little things at the corners of the scenes be accurate. Well, you're like a 10 out of 10 maniac for that, though. I mean, you're like all time, you would get every single detail possible. That's why it takes so long to, like, put the movies together because the research phase is so seductive.

I can talk to one more person. They can't talk about, like, you know. Can you go crazy doing that, though? Being like, oh, the cocktail napkins aren't right. In the hotel rooms of 1974, the cocktail napkins actually red. They actually made me feel that way when we were doing almost famous because there, were these crowd shots at San Diego Sports Arena for Stillwater and stuff.

And the audience, there was a bunch of the audience there and we're going to be on camera. And a lot of them are doing this. You know, like the devil horns. And that didn't exist in 1973. That was like Van Halen era. So I'm like, we got to shoot this again, guys. Let me talk to the crowd.

Let me talk to the crowd. I'm going, hey guys. It's Cameron. I'm a director. Just want to let you know like this didn't happen in 1973. Now, meanwhile, the guys. are standing around like whoever's there visiting from the studio and the people making the movie, they're doing this

look. Yeah. What a jerk. Talking about fingers on the extras. And then they say that thing to you. This is the thing that they say, which is so not true. If they're paying attention to that, you're lost. You know, but they are paying attention to that.

I'm paying attention to that. Yeah, they didn't know YouTube and the rewatchables and all of our podcasts were coming. Yeah. Yeah, you lose me if you've got that going on. They had no idea I would watch almost. famous 350 times, but I will, and I would have noticed. Just wait until we get to one of my nitpicks and shampoo. It's going to blow your brain.

I have one nitpick where I'm like, I can't believe it did this. One thing on Beatty and Cruz that I was thinking as you were talking about that, it seems like the biggest stars. And I think Beatty, in the mid-70s, it's in the conversation for Biggest Star. He's at least one of the people mentioned. For sure. But it seems like they had this force.

All of them have a force of personality in different ways. ways that the people talk about them what it was like on the set or in the books that are written after. So Cruz's always like, that dude's just fucking gung-ho. He's all in. He's ready to do anything it takes. Then you'll have some of the other people are like, you know, he's method actor. Didn't really want to talk to anyone on the set.

You know, like he would throw himself in the character and the implication is, oh, he seemed like kind of a dick. And then Bady's like always involved in the movies he's making. So he's like a boss, but he's also an actor. I think that's like the hardest one to navigate. It's got to be. You're ordering people around, but you're also in the movie, but you're not the director. But is he ordering them around like a baby character?

Totally. I know. There's something kind of. A lot of passive aggressive. Off about this, the third act. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I got to reread Biscan and just get more of a taste of that.

Those seem like he seduces. Yes. That's it. That's what they say. You know, that he draws people in and says, this. You know, Biscan writes a lot about how he would draw people in for not as much money as maybe they were worth to do things. Right, right. He had an ability to convince people to, you know, Julie Christie and Goldie Hawn and all these people who were, if not already, huge stars, you know, rising stars, making a movie for this low budget that is like going to be a huge smash and how much are they making on those movies. All that stuff is kind of interesting about his ability to do that. But also, he kind of loves the seduction. Like, he takes a long time to figure out what kind of movie he's going to make. And then Robert Town says that once he starts, he's like a maniac.

Once he's working on the movie, he's obsessed. But he'll take years just developing and chewing over the idea that he comes up with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they say that thing of like when he looks at you, you're the only person in the world. Yeah. But, you know, I'm just remembering this now. I had the good fortune to write this book on Billy Wilder and spend this time around Billy and Billy passed away. And one of the first people that said, let me be a part of this memorial, Warren Beatty.

Wow. And he did show up. And he was not George from shampoo. He was like, what can we do for Billy? So maybe that's a little bit of the guy who decided on the movie. Because he was straight ahead. I'll tell you another little story that I'm just remembering now, which is wild. When Almost Famous Came Out, we had a bad opening weekend.

We actually got beaten by a reissue of The Exorcist. So a movie from 1973 slaughtered our movie about 1973, which was, you know, brutal. And so I was getting like 75 phone calls a day and everything was really exciting. Then the opening weekend comes out and things start to taper down. Then the L.A. Times did a story

about the budget of Almost Famous. And it was a nasty little story about he spent so much money and he did a lot of tapes. I hate when they do that. You were just talking about this. We were just complaining about this recently. These assholes. Check it out.

No calls the day that article comes out. And we're all sitting around the office and we're like, oh, shit, man. Nobody came to see the movie. The LA Times is like kicking shit on us. This is really a drag in the phone rings. It's like nine at night and we're still there in the office because we're too despondent to leave. Yeah. It's Annette Benning.

And she says, hi, it's Annette Benning. Is Cameron there? It's like, yeah. We're just here. And she goes, I want to put Warren on. Oh. And Warren Beatty comes on the phone. He goes, look, I don't really know you.

He goes, but I just want you to know, you made a great movie. And there's no actor in town that wouldn't want to work with you. I just wanted to tell you that. And he hung up. Wow. I'm going to just start cold calling people. On their worst day. Cold calling podcasts, people have failed.

Hey, it's Bill. Keep plugging away. You're good. Dig it. They'll always remember you. That must have carried you for like a month after that. It did. And you know what? When we won the Oscar for Best Screenplay, I went to the Vanity Fair Party. And as I was getting there, Beatty and Annette were leaving.

And I saw Annette. I was like, hey, it's Cameron. Thank you for that call. And she's like, Warren, Warren, get back here. And he came back and he shook my hand. Like, see what I said? Came true. And walked away.

What a great story. Look at what you jarred here. Yeah, that's amazing. It's so weird because it was lodged in there, but we're so focused on shampoo that I forgot my own kind of baity moment that happened, which was not like George. Well, and one of the few guys with the weight that,

I mean, how many actors in the last 50 years if you get that call, you've just your entire year has changed? That's this person liked your movie. And I don't say this to diminish him at all, but I do wonder if he is as understood as one of the key participants' creators of this period of American movies because he didn't make as many movies.

Yeah. And he hasn't made as many movies in the 21st century. And so obviously what we're doing here celebrates what he contributed. But he doesn't, you know, in Redford past. He's like too short. I agree with you. There's just like, it's kind of important to locate his legacy because he did more on individual.

movies than most of his contemporaries as well, as a producer, as a writer, eventually as a director, and as like a conceiver of the projects. Yeah. You know, he didn't just wait for someone to call him to say, do you want to be in my movie? And he's distinct in that way. I think from almost every single one of his contemporaries, right? I mean, I don't know who else really transitioned as clear. I mean, I guess you could say Woody Allen is in that conversation.

It doesn't seem like anyone turned them down. If he wanted you for the movie, you just did the movie. Yeah, yeah. Biscan had this interesting theory that I don't know if I agree with, but he thinks Bady was George and Lester. And that was part of the reason he wanted to the movie because these were, he fancied himself as the sharp businessman with the great house.

By the way, he bought this awesome house apparently as he was making this movie and this wheeler dealer and, you know, but at the same time he was also George the hairdresser, just trying to get laid. Wow. I don't know if that's true, but it's interesting theory. by that. He certainly makes a mini hero out of Lester.

Yeah, Lester comes out. You don't hate him at the end. No. Well, it's also Jack Warden. It is Jack Wharton. Yeah. Boring free. He also has this quote in the movie. That's really funny. As long as I can remember when I see a pretty girl and I go after and I make her, it's like, I'm going to live forever. And that's where you're like, I don't know who's saying that. Are you the character? Are you Barbady? It could be either.

All right. We're going to take, we'll take a quick break. and then we've got to talk about some of the other components of this movie. This episode is brought to you by Apple and AT&T. Scroll long enough and you'll hear it all. Miracle diets, fitness trends, you name it. But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source. Your body. You can track sleep quality, cardio fitness, and more,

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Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. Julie Christie, they dated for a long time. They made three movies together, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, which Sean owns owns five different forms of physical media.

Did they have that in 8K UHD yet or no? Just in 4K. Shampoo, Heaven Can Wait. They broke up in 1974. Famous relationship. There's all kinds of good stories. Supposedly they were on the outs because she made that Donald Sutherlander in the movie where they may or men not have actually gotten it on in the scene.

He lost, baby lost his mind. Who knows what's true and not true 50 years later. But they had a very long story relationship. And then she came back and worked with them again. There's nobody like her now. Who's her now? Nobody. Not really.

She's such a perfect counterpoint to his energy, too. Yeah. She's so frank, direct, strong. You know, she does have a little, like, brittle vulnerability, but she is just the absolute awesome counterweight to him being like, oh, well, you know, I'm just kind of looking off into the distance. They're great together. Craig had some thoughts.

Just a magnificent woman, Julie Christie. Just an unbelievable cocktail of intellect and sex appeal. My God. Yeah, and confidence and just, and the accent, it's like, what was she missing? That first scene when she comes in and she's wearing like the long pants with the, she's just so, there's elegant, confident, just a star. Of her time in shampoo, dress-wise, hair-wise. Amazing and darling, right? Darling is quite the character piece.

Yeah, she's wonderful. They're wonderful together. kind of heartbreaking in the best way. Another one that turned down some, she turned down Reds, turned down the verdict. Wow. Which would have been a crazy part. The Charlotte Rambling part.

Yeah. Charlotte's good. It worked out. Yeah, it worked out. And then you have Goldie Hawn who's not quite Goldie Hawn yet, but she's almost Goldie Hawn. Some Sugar Land Express shampoo, but it was like, I don't feel until foul play.

I don't feel like she could have opened a major movie, by... Cactus flower and all. She had done all those movies in the late 60s or 70. Laughing, obviously. Yeah, but we didn't know if she could carry an NBA team to the third round of the playoffs yet. Yeah.

You're saying that's what she does here? No, foul play. Oh, okay, foul play. Fow play, it's like, yeah, I'm here, guys. She's another one that I don't... There's not a lot of parallels to her either. Yeah. Do you think there was a big casting call thing

for that part of Jill? Or did he always know it was Goldie? It seems from the research he knew he wanted me. make a movie of those too. I don't know what his history was with Goldie. I'm assuming they probably dated first but second at some point. Yeah, it sounds like he sought her out. Interesting.

Yeah, smart. Smart. Really good with casting. And her, Jill and Jackie being friends is really interesting because Goldie and Julie Christie's dynamics are so different. Yeah. But you buy it. You could see that they're running in the same kind of circles, right? There's like, strikingly

beautiful women do travel in packs. So, you know, you buy it. Julie Christie had this quote that she felt bad that Goldie Hawn's part wasn't better and that she wondered if they should have switched parts I don't think that would have worked at all That was going to be literally my hot take

Oh, you want to do that now? Is there any... Is there a world where they switch parts in the movie's better? I don't... I'm just... It's the hot take. So we can explore it. It's interesting.

Yeah, it is interesting. It's different. It's a side of Goldie Hawn we probably never saw in a movie because I think that there's a way darker, Jackie's a way darker character. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. I think you get Julie Christie's rage at the end. You get Julie Christie doing the third act in the Goldie Hawn part. That works. She couldn't do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Goldie being a little bit harder edge, a little bit more cynical, it would have been an interesting.

No part of play. My only question is, the persona Julie always had, I think she's just on to this guy immediately who he actually. actually is. Whereas Goldie, you could see her being fooled for half the movie because she's like so innocent and pretty and happy. I have, she's part of my hot take too later. To hear Town talk about it, I think he feels

that like Jill is the only one that has a future. So does George, does George actually get the money from Lester to do the salon? Or is George just debt at that point? Unanswerable question. Is that just, is he just emotionally and spiritually dead and has given up and he too is a sellout. Well, so here's in the, I was going to do this later in the research, but apparently there was an epilogue ending.

Oh, wow. Town had his version. Beatty had his version because they had these two, they're developing this for seven years. They each had their own script. It was one of those things. And then they finally kind of merged the scripts. But they always want to have an epilogue set in 1975. And the point of the epilogue I have at somewhere was that everybody's life is still a mess.

and they couldn't figure out how to land the plane on it. So funny, you don't need it. And they just decided to dump it and end it with him on the little mini-cliff, which is a way better ending. Do-do-do-do. Yeah.

But it works out perfectly because isn't it like 10 days after the film comes out that Nixon resigns? So, like, they got their, the exact epilogue. They needed in real life, in real time. Ashby said,

the upper class is full of shit, man. You know, they don't give a fuck about anybody. They were all hoars. Everybody was selling out all through that picture. That was his take on shampoo. So I think they're making this in 74. That's the height of everybody's just fed up. Watergate has already happened.

People are just pissed. Yeah, all the assassinations had happened in the 60s, Watergate. Now people are like, all right, fuck this. I do want to shout out Amy Scott's documentary Howl about Hal Ashby, which is an amazing portrait of him. And that quote specifically, and him saying those words is in the movie about shampoo. There's only a limited amount of time devoted to shampoo in the movie in part because he, it's not a paycheck job for Hal Ashby, but it's like a for hire thing, which most of his other films are not really like that.

Yeah. And his role on it is so interesting because all the other actors describe him as being extremely calm while Robertown and Beatty are fighting throughout the production of the movie. But then, like you said before, he's like, it's all going to be in the edit. Like, we're good. Like basically everybody who's on set here is a genius and we're going to figure this out. Like I'm really not worried. And that turned out to be true.

Like there's not a bad performance in this movie. That documentary is great. And it convinced us to give Amy a Count and Crow's doc for the music box series that we do that's going to be on in HBO later this month. Okay. Yeah. Well done. Well done. Jack Warden quickly.

Oh my God. Just a power house. For 75 to 82. Shampoo, all the president's men, heaven can wait, the champ and justice for all being there used car. and the verdict. Just ripping them off. Pretty good. Peters.

Peters across the board. Did Lester have to be a little bit more evil? Or was this right with the right casting? I think it's right. I think it's so right. When he doesn't beat up Beatty and when he has that scene at the end, it's just. Like he's listening to him. It's like, you know, this guy.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the Robert Lojia part. There's like the Jack, Jack Wharton, Robert Lojia, this type of part, the older guy. You can still see them maybe getting a little horny. Yeah. You can see them running a company. There's a dark side of them, but not really.

I don't know who that. Who's that actor now? Oh, gosh. I don't think that actor exists now. Oh, man. Like Jack Warden? Like the Jack Gordon and Robert Logia part. The loggia.

The guy who would have been in big, the guy who would have been Lester in this movie. It's a hard one. I don't know. Oh, man. Maybe it just has gone away. John Goodman, you know, someone like that. Like, it's someone you don't see very often.

Oh, John Goodman. Coming in on a flight. Well, he just... Banana boat coming. But Jack Warden is one of those people who every... He just improves everything he's in. Every time he's in a movie, even if the movie's not totally working,

you are having fun watching him cook. And I think we talked about that in the verdict where he's just... He brings a completely different energy to Newman. And, you know, he comes in to every movie and he's like, what is this bullshit? Like, that's kind of the attitude of every character that he plays.

And he's perfect because he's not a mustache-twelling villain. He's a selfish rich guy. But he's not like, I'm going to destroy these kids. He's like, I'm losing my youth. And I kind of got to get my youth back. Yeah. How am I going to do it? It's so great when Beatty is like, maybe there's something we can do with your hair. I don't know.

Layer it. You get a little, puff it out a little bit, Lester. It's just like amazing. It's amazing. Man, I just want to come up with who's the modern-day Loja warden. We'll figure it out like four days from now. Yeah, exactly. What's your favorite warden performance? Just out of curiosity.

By far this. Because I can't I can't get him coming up the the walkway doing Born Free out of my mind. Like, since I saw it, since I was 18, I can't even, I just wanted sing it like that all the time. Born free.

And then you mentioned the Hal Ashby movies that led to this, but then afterwards, yeah, so coming home and being there in back-to-back years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coming home's a fascinating movie.

It's a Tooby classic. It's been on Tooby for like three years straight. Yeah, I love that movie. Did very well at the Oscars. It did. Very, very important movie for a lot of people, but there's a feel to it that, out of all the Vietnam movies,

it's the most kind of interesting, constructed Vietnam movie. It is interesting. It's different. I look at the Harold and Mod, Last Detail, Shampoo Run, as its own little pod. Right.

I can't even tell you why, because I know Ashby continues, but those three movies feel like of a piece. And I think my hot take-ish, thing is that of those three movies, shampoo probably has the most bumps in it, like that make it a little dated, you know, like the gay stuff.

Yeah. There's little things where you go, oh. And over time, I think less so Harold and Maud and Last Detail. So though the layered and the texture and the depth that allows us to talk like this about shampoo, who makes it completely memorable and important, there's something about the flow of the other two that's a different kind of elixir that might make them more seamless, you know?

That's just my thought. I don't know how recently you guys have seen the other two movies. Last Detail is my favorite of the three. It's a spectacular. Incredible movie. It's an interesting movie too, because I think without that movie, this movie doesn't happen,

or at least not in this way, because, you know, Bady and Nicholson are close friends, and Ashby kind of enters Nicholson's orb. bit after Last Detail. And so he starts coming up to the house on Mulholland Drive.

Then on a Lakers game. And he takes his girlfriend. That happens. It happened. 70s. Really something. But he finds somebody who like he knows how Ashby can hang

in this environment with big personalities with complicated subject matter. You know like Last Detail also famously like one of the kind of like the roughest language movies of the time and then shampoo pushes it even further. Definitely. Some stuff that I'm sure

get into about what Julie Christy says in this movie, which in the movies he didn't hear very often. And Jack. By all accounts, how it was smoking pot morning, afternoon, and night. Yes. This is what they say. Yeah.

That was the word in the street. Whatever gets you through the night. Robert Town. Chinatown, shampoo, last detail all in a three-year run. Did you go through the uncredited thing in the 70s? I mean, the uncredited, it's basically him and Goldman were attached to 78% of all movies made that succeeded. The uncredited list is super wild for him.

You don't even know what's true and not true at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just seems like everybody brought him on and just wrote him a check and he just made money. Then he has like this weird 80s that include personal best, which is a fascinating movie. Yeah. Which he wrote and directed, Keelah Sunrise, where he earnestly tried to get Pat Riley to play the Kurt Russell part, which is like one of my favorite weird movie things. like genuinely tried to wrote the part for Pat Riley

tried to convince him to do it. Did you ever talk to Riley about that? I don't know if anyone's Riley's never come on my podcast because he can go fuck themselves. No, I've never had a mind. I don't like the heat. Let's bring him out, Pat Riley.

He was sunrise. Then Days of Thunder, he wrote, and then he goes into the 90s where he's just writing like the firm, Mission Impossible. Yeah, but he did without limits, which I think is one of the best sports movies of the last 30 years.

But he had this three-decade run And each decade was a little different I think like Beatty He was kind of in so many different places And like, you know, knowing everybody I mean he was mixing What was the movie after Tequila Sunrise That he did?

I can get it But it was I mean, Days of Thunder was Within two years of that Maybe it was, I think it was after Tequila Sunrise He was mixing in the next studio And I think we were doing Elizabeth Town And he was completely great, wanted to see a reel of our movie

and then showed me a reel of what he was working on. It was, I think he had one note that was kind of great. But it was that feeling, that Beatty-like thing that we're talking about of like, I'm an amoeba that's, I'm kind of present in a lot of stuff all over town. And I have an effect on the movies that are being made and I dig it. The two Jakes? Is that what it was? The two Jakes.

So he's, he's, and he's also kind of. kind of evuncular in his own way. I just thought he was very welcoming to a younger guy making this movie in the next one. So you're probably making singles at that point. This was after singles. Yeah? This was Elizabeth Town. Who was the two Jakes?

That was 90. Oh, so maybe this is... It was probably one of the ones after. I just... I remember it's something that he was... He had been tinkering on a lot. So he didn't have quite a lock on what he was doing, but was very charming about talking about it. Maybe he was doing Ask the Dust when you were doing Elizabeth Town?

No. I'll figure this out along with the new loggia. New loggia. New loggia is a good category. Are you one of those people that can work on four movies at once? I'm going to say no. I can. I can not finish four movies.

It's no problem. You're an all-in on a project guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, usually, for sure. I think town just had that, my perception of it was that he had that shaman quality where people would call him and be like, can you help me fix this? Yeah, yeah, totally. And they have an answer.

Well, he had like a very, intense relationship with Warren Beatty. And they took this forever. At some point, yeah, it was like you and CR. At some point they had, he started to have the same kind of hair that Warren had all this shit. Like he was like looking like he was almost doing an impression. You don't want to compete with that.

That's tough. Same type of like trying to get the ladies. But then I guess his big contribution in the scene, they had this huge, or to the movie other than all the other stuff he did, but they had this huge argument about the key scene when he confesses to. Goldie Hawn's character that he was actually having sex with everybody. And the big argument was whether he should be standing or sitting. And Tom was like, you have to be sitting.

You're bigger than her. It's threatening. She has to be in control. You have to be sitting down because she needs to be in control of the scene. And Batey didn't want to do that. And they fought about it, fought about it. Really? Got him to sit down and that's why the scene works.

Because she's like this. It's a great choice. And it's better. It wouldn't have worked if he's standing and towering over. That was interesting. I think he's right. I mean, don't you think? Like, if you imagine that scene with him standing,

it is way different. Yeah. And then there was a whole thing, like, Beatty has a, it's a co-screenwriting thing. Mm-hmm. And it's a big, there's a lot of stuff

written about this, about Town was pissed about it, but he wouldn't say anything. And then David Geffen was finally like, Town's pissed about this. And then Beatty got mad at town. And Town's like, I'm not pissed. And all the Hollywood shit that we like in these books.

A lot of lore. Yeah, a lot of Lord. Much lore. Three Oscar nominations in a row for Robert Town, by the way. Year after year, banging them out. Four million dollar budget made $60 million. Third biggest movie in 1975.

Damn. Lee Grant, who he didn't mention, got nominated for an Oscar. Wow. I would say rightly so. Ebert. She won, didn't she? Did she win?

She won, yeah. She won the Oscar. I probably should have had that in my notes. That seems more important than getting nominated. Her speech is really interesting because she, you know, was like. Sean has the speech. Come on.

Well, I watched the speech last night. She said something interesting about Ashby, which was just that all the actors, she thanked Town and Beatty and was like, they are the shepherds and architects of this movie. She was like, Ashby was the one who basically let us feel like we could fail. Like, we could take chances, like we could do things, and it was going to be okay.

And she's the last person that he thanks, which I thought was interesting because of this, you know, Bermuda Triangle of Creativity that this one. movie is operating inside of. The screenplay got nominated. We also had Jack Wharton getting nominated. Love that. The movie did not got nominated. Do you know why?

Tell me. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Barry Lyndon, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws at Nashville. Holy shit. Good luck. Good luck cracking that crew. Number six, baby. We do this on every episode. We used to know how to make movies. I was just going to say, is that the best line, the best this

Best Picture lineup of all time. Because there's other movies. We've asked that question before. Up there. Well, especially when you think of the directors that are involved. I mean, holy macro. It's pretty great. It's got to be in the top three best five,

because there's no weak link at all. It's the one I always circle back to. Are they spurring each other on, is my question. Like, are these filmmakers just, like, tweaking each other to go further? What do you think? I think yes. I think yes.

I think it equates to music, too, and eras of music. where there's people that remind you of a certain kind of greatness that makes you summon your own greatness is super powerful and fun. It's fun when you have something to compete against, obviously. And I think there was, I don't know, Billy Wilder talked about a greater camarader in that time and that he felt that it kind of splintered away

in the time before he died, that there was less like elbow jabbing with a smile and a smirk that made it more fun. to go up against your peers. It's hard to explain the movies and music scene in that decade where it's a combination of things evolving. People just, just some of the best people we've ever had, just all in one place together.

And then like the kind of new shit being created that nobody had heard before. I just don't know if we'll ever see that again. And in that time, like not all of them knew how to use music or new modern music. And not all of them knew the, the new, like, popular music or how to use it. Nichols did, obviously, and Ashby to the max.

But a lot of them just wanted to lean on score and all that stuff and, like, grandiose kind of music. So it really stuck out when somebody was able to, like, land a needle drop where you just went, fuck, that's the marriage where everybody is just high watching it. We always talk about with writers, if you cover the byline, and you know who the writer is, that usually means they're a good writer. Like, oh, I know who that is.

And there are so many directors in that decade where you could have been like, oh, that feels like a blank movie. And I wonder, like, if we still have that in the same way with as many directors now. I mean, we make more movies now. Yeah. It's really hard to compare to this year, this time.

This six or seven year period of films is, in America alone, is just to completely shape my taste in what I'm interested in. what I like for movies. But movies are back. I don't know if you notice. I think so.

A good movie year this year. A lot of stuff I've liked. I hope movies are going to be okay. Sean's nipples have been hard for all in 2025. He's been delighted. Our guy, Roger Ebert, disappointing one for him. We do it in rewatchable as we always did the Roger Eber review.

Two and half stars. Shocking. Ooh, tell me about that. Shampoo is a movie I expected to admire enormously. It was made by some of Hollywood's most gifted talents. And the critical praise from New York has been almost definitely. But the movie didn't quite work for me. Its timing wasn't confident enough to pull off its ambitious conception.

And he was basically like this movie's trying to do a whole bunch of stuff that didn't totally pull off. But sometimes I do think it's a movie you need to watch a couple times. For sure. There's a lot going on. For sure. It's not one of those. You're going to solve it right away. I did think he had a really good insight in his review, though.

He wrote, the sexual gymnastics aren't the movie's point. However, and the sex scenes are never developed in an erotic manner. they're directed by Ashby Moore's symptoms of George's dilemma, which is that he likes being loving and kind. He listens to his clients and sometimes even really does care about their problems. But in some final way, he's too blocked to develop a relationship to really give himself. Which I think is a really smart reading of that character and maybe even a baby more broadly. You know, like it's weird that he doesn't like the movie.

It's so in his wheelhouse. I bet he upgraded it when he did his thousands. He upgrades. He upgrades. We're going to do most rewatchable scene. But before we do that, we have to talk about what you brought us for the set. Well, you know, I wanted to bring a little something for this hallowed room. And I just figured we'd go with one of the hidden heroes of Jerry McGuire, Cush. Jerry O'Connell as Cush.

And there are three of these, I must say. One is it in the hands of Jerry O'Connell, and one I have. And now one belongs to Ditch. I mean, what an honor. One of the great honors in more watchable's history. Cush's big promo posters. Was this before? Cush-slash?

Cush-Lash, Cush-Lash? Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I must say, Jerry O'clock. By the way, he looks great in that. He looks like he's selling it. The Jets are going to draft him first.

God willing, if only we could have drafted Cush. He sees the future in his eyes. You can see that right there. It's all ahead of him and he knows it. He's going through his progressions. It's like Paisley backing. I thought you might enjoy. Hint of the undershirt.

Just nice texture. So this was in his hotel room? Where was this in the actual movie? I think this is possibly... I'm going to say it's in the hotel room with his dad when Jerry goes and they have all that paraphermalion in the room. It is in the Bowbridge's hotel room. You did surprise you with this, I'm going blind.

It's so crazy, though, what a perfect match it is with the rest of the decor. It does feel as though you found it on eBay, and it is a real quarterback that you've watched in 1979. I'm going to find the perfect spot for it. Right now we want to display it there. I don't want to, like Michael Myers was there. I don't want to, I can't, long term, I don't want to piss off Myers. Yeah, I got you.

You know, because he's a serial killer. I do, yeah. It'll find a place. No, it's going to find a place. It will gravitate to a special place. Honestly, the 77 Red Sox might be in trouble over in the corner. Interesting. We'll figure out the perfect one.

So thank you for that. I always love when people bring guests. My pleasure. Most rewatchable scene. I'm going to give you a couple choices. George goes to visit Jill after he, he had sex with Felicia. And she realizes,

does the Goldie Hawn character realizes that they're not going to have sex? And it's just kind of a funny, I'm going to go make some food. And she's like, wait, what happened? I thought. And then so the light bulbs going on, like, I wonder if he just had sex,

but I just like how they handle that. It's great. George, it's short, but George flipping out after he can't get alone when he dumps garbage anywhere, it's just a great Warren Beatty being a star scene. I think when he throws a jacket in,

And it's like, oh, wait, I need that jacket. No, fuck this jacket. That chaotic care salon scene when everybody's coming in and out, it's like a three's company episode. Beatty and Christy in the parking lot. Hey, I don't fuck anyone for money. I do it for fun. It's like, oh.

Brutal. George doing Jackie's hair in the bathroom, which you mentioned. Big scene. The Carrie Fisher scene. Big scene. The party with the two Felicia Jackie interactions, but specifically the stare-down the second time, they're just fucking locked like UFC fighters for...

It's like 90 seconds. Yeah. The gaze never changes. Jack Warden moving through the groovy party like an alien. We talked about that. George, confessing his love with Lucy and this guy with Diamonds playing, kicks in, and then they get found. But I'm going to give this the kid Cutty Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop.

It's going down low. And then it kicks up. I know you're one of the masters of. I'm with you. Thank you. George admitting to Joe that he slept with a lot of girls. Let's face it, I fucked them all. And then George makes peace with Lester.

Also a good scene. And Jackie dumps George on the mini-cliff, unless there are any other scenes you want to mention. I think those are the nominees. I just want to, just the first, first scene of introducing the movie. In the dark? Wouldn't it be nice in the darkness? Oh, wow.

During the sex scene. Which is like such a disorienting way to, open a movie. You can't really figure out what's going on. You know that they're having sex. You can't really see Lee Grand at all, even when he gets up. Especially when I'm 13, I'm like, is there a boob? Yeah, no. It's nothing. Yes, my first viewing, I was totally there.

Yeah. It just, it really in. But, like, that, like, leaning forward thing that you're doing when you're watching the movie is a great way to get you interested in what's going on with this guy. That scene gets done a million times later, and you find out that they're actually just, like, you know, moving a piece of furniture or something.

You're like, oh, they weren't really having sex. That movie is like, they're having sex. It's actually happening. So what's your most rewatchable scene? Man, as you watch it, I just, as you go through it, I just kind of start thinking, what about my choice? But my choice really is the Stairdown Bistro scene. Because I just think, I was tempted to go with the Lucy in the sky with diamonds, like that whole party. I love, love, love, and that really destroyed me when I was a little guy first seeing it. But the orchestration of all the relationships and the beastings, and the bistro scene. Nixon getting

reelected, the big wall size picture of Nixon, you know, Jackie getting drunk and with my favorite reading in the movie where he's like, you know, she's going on and on it. He's like, you're drunk. It's just fantastic. In any other movie, it's like, you're drunk.

Don't you realize what you're doing? He's like, you're drunk. Right. It's just brilliant. And I think without that scene where you're drawn into the interlocking relationships and you're feeling Jack Warden's pain and all that stuff, the movie isn't as seductively layered without it. So kind of structurally, I go with that.

What do you got, Sean? I love the scene near the very end when Lester and Georgia. That was my scene. That was my pick. I just think the whole movie... Women only talk about one thing, how some guy fucked them over. It's like, this is fucking great stuff. Their instant camaraderie and just being assholes is very amusing.

And the whole idea of the movie is in their, too, which is sort of like, of course, this rich guy is like, yeah, they're all bad. I don't care. I'm just trying to get through my day. You know, like to pack all that into that little moment. And, you know, to just show that, like, through these guys' eyes, the women are secondary. You know what I mean? They're like a means to an end of trying to get off.

Because they're a horror. He calls Julia Chris character. It kind of really reveals, I think, what they really think about these guys. But also, you know, it's true and it feels sincere, but also they're critical. Like, it's a really fascinating blend. It's fascinating. And also, Lester, not once. but twice has a problem with the housekeeping.

It's just like, how do you live like this? It's not a dirty, you know, not a clean glass in the house. Yeah, I don't have to clean this fucking glass and, like, pour you a drink that only I am going to drink. It's just crazy. I think Ward is so good in that scene. He comes in a little menacing. So good.

And then whatever George says about, like, your wife, all she wants to do is shop all day. Her daughter hates her. And he's like, daughter hates her. What do you mean hates her? Like, he's just his whole body, like, jolts. I know. No, it's like, it's a great scene. There's a great back and forth in that scene where Jack calls, or Jack Warden calls Jackie a whore. Yeah.

And then Beatty goes, no, I think she really likes you. And he goes, really? Yeah, really? Yeah, she likes you. That scene is awesome. I mean, that's such a well-written scene too. I know. And he's like the perfect actors. He's been there all night.

That's like the awesome thing at the top. Like, I've been here all night. You're doing what? You certainly didn't do the housework. This is like you fucking sat there steaming about the guys. glasses being dirty. They're just brilliant together. All right, next category.

What's the most 1975 thing about this movie? A little tough because it's set in 1968. Interesting. I'll give you a couple nominees, though. Warren Beatty's hair. Using the word groovy. Yep.

Every time you're groovy, it's like that's a word that is gone. Jack, I mean, there's some unfortunate gay bashing in this movie, but he uses the word fairy, which I haven't heard in 20, 25 years. I know.

I have L.A. just seems so sprawling and traffic free and happy to navigate and it's just not like it is now. Even when they show the shots of the hill on sunset, like the houses aren't crammed together.

It just seems like this happy mid-70s place. The seven years after Nixon got elected subtext is good. But I am going to go with my winner is riding a motorcycle without a helmet. just fucking hopping on to triumph and moving around. It's just noticeable when you watch it. It's just not a real action scene.

It's just a happier time. I'll be coming back to the triumph in a later category. What do you have for this? Anything else? I mean, even just purely the style of every character, you know, the haircuts that he's giving to match Felicia and Jackie is like such a chill. It is like more 68 than 75. Maybe that should have been the category.

What's the most 19-70s? 68 thing about this movie. The music and, yeah. What do you have, camera? I would go for the extras and the people populating the party, the big sprawling party. Those people do not exist anymore.

They don't exist anymore, but also like, why are they there? Yeah. Whose house is that? Which goes to another category, unanswered questions. Like, whose house is that? Is it Lester's house? It looks like Lester's house. Also, it's election night, so is every election night

a Tuesday? And are people part singing on election night, I guess in 1968, maybe they were. But like, these are supposed to be the counterculture crowd. Like, how do they end up in this house? Yeah. Like, it's not, it's not like it's a shack in Laurel Canyon. This is like... An estate.

I don't know who they are, but they aren't really convincing, particularly the guy that offers Jack Gordon the joint. He just kind of like... It's just hair, really. He doesn't really have anything to do. And there's a lot of, like, scarf, you know, scarf-headed women and stuff. And you're just like, it's a little...

It's a little caught in a time warm. You know who dipped into this? Madman, when they would have Don Draper go to LA for those seasons. And it was like same kind of thing. Like, what is this world? Who are these people? How did they get in this house? Can I say one thing about that?

For so many movies that like try and do the era and like work real hard to get the extras all dressed up properly and stuff, all they have to do is watch the movie Monterey Pop. Monterey Pop has the best photography of the people in the audience. And it's just, that's what you should go to to do your research on that. Because like people in that era, and I guess that's 68. I think it is 68. Okay, so Monterey Pop is 68. So that's the era.

There's people in the 50s. There's people who looked like they could be there now. It's just like the stew of what people in that era really looked like is there in the crowd shots of Monterey Pop. And sadly, that's not shampoo, which is good on so many other details. they just kind of fumble on that. And it is 1975, 68 or whatever we're looking for. It's a good plan. I was trying to think of other 68 movies that would be representative of this too.

And I feel like isn't medium cool also 68? Medium cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is also like there's a lot of real people in that movie, even though it's not a documentary. And it's the same thing. Like you can see exactly how everyone was styled. Yeah. This movie is like some of it is accurate and some of it appears to be like,

satirizing or riffing loosely on what it would remember seven years ago to be? The Beverly Hill stuff is pretty accurate. It feels pretty accurate. Of course, they're all in Texas and stuff. Craig, would you rather go to a party in 1968 or now? 1968. I mean, my... It just seemed like a great time.

I'll just do it now. The flex category, you guys touched on this. Mine is the Den of Thieves Benihanna Award for a scene-stealing location. It's just unrecognizable L.A. of 1968 versus now. It's just completely different. It feels so small, relaxed. approachable. The height of every building seems lower.

Yeah, the winding roads of the Hollywood Hills. Every single part of it is so appealing and attractive. And you completely understand why you would fall in love. I fall in love with it again, just watching it. Convincing myself that right now is somewhat still what it was in 68, which it's clearly not. But it's magical. There is a way, though, in which it has aged the best in terms of L.A., too, because this is sort of what it's like to live in L.A. where, like, everybody lives in their house and they don't really leave their house and the houses are kind of dark and the curtains

are closed and they're skulking around and even though this you think of this as like this sunny paradise that a lot of people especially people with a lot of privilege are just like I don't really want to leave like I'm just like I'm doing my thing in my own house like I don't want to go out tonight you know like there is still that quality of every time they're in one of these houses they're not bustling the only time we see that is at these two parties it's also funny to have a bunch of counterculture people at this mansion which is also very L.A. That's what I was saying. They're committing to that but they're committing to that but they're

also have one rich friend that they're okay using their dad's house. Yeah. And they're okay with that? The LA in this movie is the LA that as a kid when I watched all the TV shows and I was like, man, it just seems great there. When they did like Battle of Network Stars in Malibu, like, what's that? Yeah. Or it's on a cliff with an ocean?

Like, what the hell is going on? Or Charlie's Angels, they'd be in the Hollywood Hills. I'm like, oh, that looks awesome. The only thing, though, is like it is smoggy, cloudy L.A. It's not always sunny, you know, like especially the last shot when he's looking at. out. It's like, that's not the beach, you know? That's not rosy. That's doom.

Even those of the offices, the views from the offices, the movie producer's office, Lester's office are gorgeous. The balcony, is it Jill's house? I mean, Mark, unbelievable. One more break, and then we're going to what's age the best. The playoffs are here, and you can

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying, every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater.

This is a place where everything feels cinematic. Like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore. Ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids invites you to find a rhythm all your own. Season after season in Pure Michigan. Find your season at experienceGR.com. All right, before we do, what's age the best, special category, the Stephen Seagal

shitting on himself award for most unbelievable anecdot from the actual film shoot. We're here with legendary filmmaker Cameron Crow. And you're doing this award. This is like, why am I here? Lee Grant walked off the film for two days during the scene when

her character comes in after it seems like her daughter might have had sex with one video and they argued about what her motivations would be and she kept playing it the same way. And he kept telling her to play it differently, and she got fed up, and she left. It was gone for two days, and she came back, and Warren said, basically, my bad, he's like, what do I know?

I'm only a guy. And that was it. Wow. What would be your, do you have a Stephen Seagall shitting on himself for work for many of your movies? Just had a curiosity. Do you know this story? Tell me the story. It's some Segal movie.

What was it? Like Above the Law? One of those? Hard to kill, maybe. He, he, there was some stunt guy in the set. and the guy said he could choke anyone out. And Seagal's like, there's no way he could choke me out. And the guy's like, oh, yeah.

And he was like, all right, and it became this thing. And the guy chokes Seagall out and he shits all over himself. This is urban legend might not have happened, may have happened. But it had to become a category in the rewatchables. I love it. He got choked out and may have shit on himself. Steven Seagal. So anyway, I don't know if you have anything that good.

Let me think about that. Think about that. Think about a high bar. Think about 20, 25 low shod on. you. I'll, yeah. And just found that away for the... So many unanswered questions.

We'll get back to that. Sean, what do you have for? What stage is the best? I love a Hollywood, L.A. movie that is full of all these smart self-referential choices. Like, we did the player on this show. We've got a handful of movies. And so casting Carrie Fisher,

who's Debbie Reynolds's daughter, and the way that the movie uses her, and uses her as this kind of vessel for a new generation of sexual frankness. And Debbie Reynolds, of course, this representation of of like a pert and prim version of Hollywood history is super smart. There's like a series of versions like this, like even just the idea of making a movie about a hairdresser

and what the role of the hairdresser as a significant participant in not just making Hollywood movies, but Jay Sebring, who was tragically killed, John Peters, you know, who became, you know, a power player in the space. Seems like those were the two people that kind of drove. And then there was a third one whose name escapes me, but that I think Robert Town talked about, about somebody that he had met whose ex had cut hair

and was also an inspiration for this. And that these, I don't think we see hair dressers in quite the same way culturally now. Yeah. But it's fascinating because that is a really intimate act. You know, to be with someone by yourself, touching them, cutting their hair, developing that physical relationship with them,

and then the movie using that, and that being such a significant part of, you know, presentation in Hollywood and the way that you look is so paramount to what you're doing. I just love all that in the series. I mean, he had some big celebrity girlfriends and then eventually just became a producer. But it was all because he was around these women all day

who were attached to powerful people. I was kind of surprised in the movie when, I mean, because George seems to understand people's intimate feelings and stuff and how when he's got his hands in their hair, they start talking about it. And it feels like he listens, you know, and he knows the power of that. But then he kind of sells himself out at the end saying,

like, yeah, they all fucking talk about the same thing. some guy that fuck them over. And I'm like, George, come on. You felt more than that. Do you think he's performing for Lester too, though? The way that he like shapes shifts for people too. Like that's a very, you know, L.A. sycophantic thing where you're like blend into the moment so that you're not making too many waves.

Like you got to be like Lester in this moment. But when you're cutting a woman's hair, you got to be sympathetic to her experience. Like that reveals a little bit of like the phoniness that is at the heart of the movie too. I don't know. It's really, like, like, to me it feels very much like L.A. where like I am sincere every day and I also feel full of shit. And that's a really hard way to be.

But I do think the movie really taps into that well. I totally agree. Plus, remember he puts that scene in where he's like got this woman's hair like right. Oh,

yeah, almost looks like a blowjob in a second. Yeah. He's just like shaking her around. And they're like whipping her back up. And then he wants to like give her away and the next year like, you know.

That would have been a good hottest take as hairdressers were the original podcasters. Just doing a podcast all day with 10 guests. That is a hot. Hot, too. And getting people to reveal their secrets. Yeah.

Wow. Because they have to remember stuff about every person they're doing. They're bringing up conversation. They're finding out stuff. They probably have more

information. When you're getting your haircut, are you telling the truth about your life? Yeah, I was, because my person is the same person my mom goes to.

Don't ask. So we spend half the time talking about my mom and how crazy my mom is. And it's just like she really knows about my life.

That's how you communicate. Do you have a what stage the best? I do. I do. It's the cinematography of Laslo Cobbax. I think who I was lucky enough to work with on Say Anything. He was the guy that shot Say Anything. So don't think I wasn't aware that I was with the guy that did shampoo.

Another movie with a party scene. Exactly. And that was on our minds, too, definitely. But Laslo was amazing for a first time director. so helpful and so soulful, had a great crew, really cared about all the textures. And the thing I want to shout out about this movie that I've always tried to learn from. And this is from Beatty, I think, because he does this in Bonnie and Clyde, too. He knows what a screen kiss can do. It's better than sex in a movie. If you get that kiss right, because, and here's Bady's secret. And I, and I, I, I, I, I,

this from watching his stuff, which is he gives you the moment before the kiss, the desire before the kiss, which I definitely went for in Jerry McGuire. It's the decision to make the kiss. The moment before they come in is where it's all decided, because you know, in fact, when the kiss happens, everything's going to change. Beatty does not deny you that moment. He does it especially great in Bonnie and Clyde, and he does it great in this movie. With Laslo, every kiss matters, and it's beautifully shot, and it's very packed with emotion, and the kisses in this movie shampoo are great. Such a good point, because they're in the bathroom. He's doing her hair, and she's just staring at him with those big fuck-me-ey-ey-eyes. And then he's kind of doing her hair, but then every

once in a while, it's like, oh, something's going on. And you can just see it, and they're doing it for almost like 45 seconds, and you know it's going to happen. It's a really hard thing to pull off in a movie. It's a hard thing. And Jerry McGuire, we really milked it, you know, because they're on there there he's with rene and the doorway oh yeah and it's just there's all kinds of longing going on and then he breaks the strap and all the stuff and it's just like we just wanted to live in that moment and uh i think we have some paul mccartney music that's kind of like do do do in that actual moment but um no i just thought i thought like that's a thing that like is a little shining star that happens a couple of times in shampoo it's the kisses

I had a couple What's Age the best The Warren The Warden Bata combo I just love those two guys together Lester's house I'm just going to give the Amanda Dobbins Award

For Best Piece of Real Estate It's a really great house There's like a tennis court Unbelievable Upstate like things I just I wanted to see like a whole Google or a shot

of how that house was laid out Where is that house? I don't know where it is We have to know where the house Beverly Hills maybe Somewhere in there Young Carrie Fisher's just hilarious to just see her three years before she's about to become one of the most famous,

or two years, which is about to become one of the most famous actors in the world. It's her first part. Yeah. She eats Beatty alive in that scene. I think, like, there is such boldness, and she just does not care. Well, we could say it now. She gets the Dionne Waiters Award for Bessie check.

It's just, that's done. Yeah. This movie made me wonder, like, did the Star Wars thing? I wish there was an alternate version of her career where there's no Star Wars and she's just in big time she's making all these movies for 15 years absolutely

absolutely great great great because like when Harry met Sally and she's the friend the sarcastic kind of insecure friend and she's just really good at it's like why didn't we're there six more of these for you but I guess Star Wars just eat you up when you're in that franchise Jerry McGuire trivia

the line you know you're not show friends, you're show people. No, what is it? They're not, what is it? It's not show friends. It's show business. I heard that from someone,

and I put it in the movie, and they came to me later and said, I actually stole that from Kerry Fisher. That's Carrie Fisher's line. Oh, wow. So, thank you, Carrie Fisher. Thank you. I have, for what's age the best,

having a late 60s, Guamar. I just put that in for Sean. Thank you. We always have Gumar jokes. I think dating back to the godfather. It was the head of the Gumar era. I don't know that Lester Karp would have

used the word Gummar to describe Jackie. That's really more, you know. Maybe the 90s were the key. You need to be like Ilyana Douglas to be identified as that, right? It's a different... And then the soundtrack, which features

two Beatles songs. It's crazy. Yes. Probably not getting those 10 years later. No, plus manic depression by Hendry. Crazy. Would it be nice?

Mr. Soul is my favorite. Two Jefferson Airplane songs. Two Jefferson. Yeah. Yeah. It's nuts. And the Beach Boys. Opening and closing.

We're up with the Sean Fantasy Award for Stealth Omage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm. It's another category, Cameron. There's not a lot in here. So I went with film director William Castle. Yeah. World renowned for his work. making experiential movie-going experiences for scary movies in the 50s and 60s. He shows up in the movie as Sid Roth, who's the guy who proposes Jackie at the 1968 Republican Party.

Oh. And he is a legendary showman in movie history who is very... There's a Joe Dante movie called Matinee that is loosely based on him in the movies that he made. And yeah, this is a... That's an interesting choice for a guy like that who's always trying to sell you on something. Yeah. to be the guy at that party. Interesting.

We have a grade shot order award for most cinematic shot. I personally would go for the high shot when they end up on the cliff and they have the high shot to begin with and you can see all of L.A. and you know something's going to go down. I just think it's a really cool one.

I had the same last shot, best shot. Yeah. I would go with that. For sure. Where is that location? Do we know? I don't know. You know, I researched saying

couldn't figure it out, but it's got to be somewhere like up in the hills, like near Mulholland Drive or somewhere in there. So cool. Sean, you have a flex category. Did you already do it? No, I didn't.

You already mentioned it. Well, I'm going to do a different one then. So my flex category is the I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for craziest quote. Oh, that's good. I was going to do, I don't fuck anybody for money.

I do it for fun. Which you already mentioned. But what if it would is I just wish I knew what the hell I was living for. You can lose it all, you know? I mean, you can lose it no matter who you are. What's the sense of having it all? Market went down 10 points last week.

God damn Lyndon Johnson. Maybe Nixon will be better. What's the difference? They're all a bunch of jerks. That's Lester at the end of the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think just doing the thesis of the movie. Yeah.

Wow. The thesis that might apply in 2025. Sure does. We have the Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. I'd like to nominate the, I'd like to suck his cock scene. It's just so crazy.

And Beatty apparently fought for it to be in there, but I almost think it's too crazy. I think she was too classy to do that. It always bothered me with this movie. Interesting. Would be my take. I might be wrong. I think you're supposed to believe

she's very drunk. But then an hour later, she's fine. Yeah. I wouldn't say she's the best drunk acting actress, Julie Christie, at least not in this. She starts off, what does she start off with the Dubeney?

Isn't that what she's drinking at the start of it? She's had a few. Yeah. Cruise from Few Good Men to Jerry Maguire got way better at being drunk in a scene. Big time. Because Few Good Man was not... That's really true. That's really true.

It was not as strong. We always had a theory he had never had a drink before, so he was pretending how to act when he had a drink. But Jerry McGuire, he had a pretty good. He had somebody being drunk. He had a poker. So he had like a prop that was kind of helping him, I know. That's a good question. How do you direct somebody to be drunk?

Glasses are huge. It's really hard. It's really hard. They kind of either have it or they don't. And if they try too hard, which somebody usually, they usually do that, you just have to scale it back and scale it back.

So you're like, that was really good. Just get liquid. Let's try one more. Get liquid. 10% helps just to get like, because usually they're just like, ah, but just like get like you're in, you're underwater a little bit.

It's good. That's good. Kind of like. Doing a hula with it. So who's the best drunk scene actor of all time? I mean, Dudley Moore was drunk during all of Arthur. Yeah. I don't know how he did that.

That's not acting. Yeah. Yeah. Not acting. He didn't he wasn't acting. I mean, we talked about Newman in the verdict. But it's that, like, that sullen, quiet drunk. Yeah, it's almost like it's dark.

It's like entrenched in your body drunk. It's not the should we or should we not follow the advice. The harder one is like the rom-com where somebody got too drunk and starts yelling at. our hero is usually when it goes really wrong. Cameron Diaz is really good in my best friend's wedding. That's a great one. That's some good drunk acting. Yeah, that's a good one.

I think Bill Nyei and love actually is pretty good. That's a great one too. He gets pretty liquidy. Especially on, what is it, Christmas Eve when he shows back up to his manager. You're not sure if they're going to have sex or something. A couple what's aged the worst, other than some of the words. the Paul Simon soundtrack, I wrote down before you even mention it, it's just corny and weird.

You know, I get it with that. It seems like he did write a bunch of songs, at least at that time, that ended up on Still Crazy after all these years. Yes. But you know what happens. They write songs for the movies that ask them for a song, and when the song turns out too good, they keep it. They don't give you that song.

Yeah, they give you the fourth best song. There's even a thing in the Bruce Springsteen movie where he writes a song for Donna Summer, and it's a is it I'm on fire or what is it uh yeah it's like I'm on fire and John Landau in the movie goes like I'm sure glad you didn't give that song to Donna Summer it's like wow truth truth being told I mean honestly you could have done that with fever dog you could have just said fuck it this is a real song I'm giving this to Pearl Jam Thank you give me a red or credit I think maybe not too late I don't know

If Pearl Jam ever sang fever dog in concert You would explode into molecules what happened to you would be really good I just think there's certain songs that, like, they would have been great. There's a couple Springsteen songs they would have crushed that. Cameron, we always, Sean and I always joke about when you own stock early in somebody. You're the all-time with Pearl Jim. He had, he had Navidia stock in 2015 with Pearl Jim. They weren't even a band yet.

They were Mukie Blaylock when you had them in singles. They were indeed Mooky Blahawk. Yeah, you were like the original stockholder. We put our chips down on that. Unbelievable. It's so funny that they're still together, too. Of all the bands from that era. Yeah.

And Allison Chains. I mean, though they've, you know, sadly. The only other what's aged the worst is Carrie Fisher did say years later that Bady tried to get it going with her. Which is, oh, man. Four times, she said. And is it true that Debbie Reynolds made sure that she wasn't lit seductively? Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie had some notes. And she tried to get the scripts. She made it was scripts, and she couldn't get him to change this. Well, I'm sure she was like, oh, shit. This is... I think they wanted to change want to fuck to want to screw and they couldn't get that over it. Interesting.

Rough-lough Hannah Rubinck Cartridge, overacting award. I gotta bring it up, but Warren Beatty, when he's getting broken up with at the end, kind of dows it up a little bit with the crying thing. It's a little out of the comfort zone. I can't say it 100% worked.

I'm with you on that. But please. Don't. You keep saying honey over and over? Honey? No. Yeah. It's like the fake true crime cry. Yeah.

I just don't think he would actually cry in real life. Yeah. I also had the Jay Robinson, the guy who's the real owner of the salon, you know, who's like clear. It's still running number two behind Norman. Yeah, Norman. Yeah, Norman pushes it a little hard. He turns it up a little bit. Although it's great when he goes nickel and dime.

You got to learn a nickel and dime, George. So we have the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford, how to take a word. What do you think of that? Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford's career. Chris Ryan's the best hottest take in 400 plus rewatchables episodes. I almost fell out of my chair. It's fantastic and it's true and it's true.

Wow. I can't tell you how true. Confirming it. There you go. Deeply in my soul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mine is for this, Sean already did his. Did you have one? Cameron?

Yeah, it's that it's the least rewatchable actually of the three picture run that Ashby was on. I think that's fair, even though it's probably the most successful. Yeah. It kind of hurts me to say that in a way because I love shampoo so much. But when I go back over the other two, I kind of find myself gravitating towards the last detail or in the right mood, Harold and Maud, of course.

Funny that we didn't say, this is the number three movie at the box office this year. That's crazy. $60 million. That is crazy. It's good for Warren Bading. How did Last Detail do? Not nearly as well. 12 or 15.

Wow. My hottest take, I think Goldie Hawn in this mid-70s era was the single most adorable actress of all time. And it's different than prettiest, sexiest all that, just like adorable, where every human being was like, oh, she seems cool. Oh, she's so cute. Or every guy would have had a crush on her.

If you're on a movie set with her, you're just going to have a crush on her, period. I can't think of other people have swim in these circles, but I don't think as well, which leads to my second hottest take. 15 years too soon. She misses the whole rom-com blow-up era from 80. on starting when Harry Met Sally.

Yeah. She does, Meg Ryan doesn't exist. Meg Ryan's working down the street. Goldie's taking every part from her for 10 years. McRyan's working down the suit. Yeah. Med Ryan's delivering mail.

Yeah. She works at Dunkin' Donuts. She's Markinson. She doesn't exist. She's gone. But Goldie Hunt, I just think they didn't have the right kind of, they had great movies. They didn't have these movies that just would have kept it going for.

She kind of gets it back. She comes back with like First Wives Club and Bangor Sisters. Which is like kind of in the same zone, but she's not quite the rom-com. But she misses that sweet, sweet, sweet spot. She just could have been in my best friend's wedding type of movies for 10 solid years. Killing it for sure. I watched Private Benjamin recently and she was, that movie is really good and she's incredible in that movie. And it's a really weird movie that they just wouldn't make any more.

She's incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Casting when F's couldn't find any That's that guy I were Johnny Bill is Tony Bill as Tony Bill Tony Bill as Johnny Pope He was an Academy Award winning producer On the film The Sting

So he was not He was a very well-known person in Hollywood But he occasionally acted Didn't act very often He does look He looks like Warren Beatty on a bad day You know what I mean

Like he looks just enough like him Or you're like yeah This guy should be at this party Yeah Jack Wharton thinks he's getting it on with George. Yeah, come on, you know. He also has a period mustache that kind of is both timeless and caught in the cedar. But it's like if baby was in disguise or something in the movie, you know, we're like, why is his brother here?

I love how annoyed he is when Lester gets in the car, like after the bistro. Will you get a drink? Yeah. Recasting couch director or city. So can I just, I think this movie is very well cast, but can I just offer you who it? Johnny Pope, sadly. No, we just gave him another word. Do this, do this.

Can I just throw John Cazale in there for the hell of it? Yeah. That's pretty great. Just grab his time for two weeks. Yeah. And he could do Ascot commercial director. You know, we saw him do it as Brady. I think he played like five parts in this movie.

Damn. Just get him in there. You did your flex. Half As Center Research. So you mentioned the Paul Simon stuff. Paul Simon did write a title song called Have a Good Time. No. That Beatty said no.

So we scrapped it. And they put it on this still crazy after all these years of them. You mentioned all the Debbie Reynolds stuff, and we did everything else for that. So Apex Mountain is a category we talk about when somebody had the most juice they were ever going to have in their career. And I actually think Beatty is this is a yes for him. Yeah.

Because this movie, he owned a lot of the back end of it. He put a lot of time into it. It's a huge success. And I just think he can do whatever he wants after this. Not that he couldn't have before. but this is the best example of that. This sets up Reds. This sets up everything he wants to be.

It all, for sure. But is he even higher on the mountain and heaven can wait or at Reds? I don't know. Like, after Heaven Can Wait or after Reds, has he ascended even further? Maybe it's Heaven Can Wait. I don't know.

It could be even. Is it Heaven Can Wait? How many years after this movie is Heaven Can Wait? Three years. And in between is it? He's turning down stuff. He was... What is the fortune before after this?

He's producing, yeah. Yeah. The most interesting one he turned down was hardcore with Paul Schrader, a movie we've done on the rewatchables. Turn it off! Turn it off! We've done that one.

I can't see Warren Bating. He didn't want to have a daughter. That's why he turned it down. Oh, wow. He's like, I'm too young and handsome to have a daughter, so can it be my wife goes to Newport? And they're like, no, that's not.

No, no. It's got to be a teenage daughter. Yeah, so he, yeah, he has shampoo and the fortune in 75, and then Heaven Can Wait in 78 and Reds in 81. For some reason, I feel by the time of Heaven Can Wait, Bady is a little less like feral Bady, you know, where he's just like in the culture. Heaven Can Wait's kind of like, you know,

like a nice pass, a nice romantic comedy turn, but he doesn't have his teeth in it the way he does in shampoo. I think it's a little bit. this. I agree. I agree. Julie Christie, obviously not, because she did Darling and Dr. Chivago in the same year, which is like,

pretty good. Hall of Fame, Apex Mountain Year. Pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the biggest movies of the 60s and a movie where she won an Oscar. You're not topping that. Goldie Hawn, no. Robert Town?

This is a pretty nice run for him. It's got Chinatown and this back-to-back? Yes. I'm going to say, yes. I have yes. Jack Warden, no. It's somewhere in the late 70s. Old school Hollywood scenery and a famous Hollywood movie, it's in play.

Triumph motorcycles as a character in a movie, definitely. Definitely. And then late 60s party scenes, trying to think of a better one. This was the most sprawling, for sure. I'm going to say no on party scenes in general, not just because Cameron. What about the Peter Sellers movie, The Party? The answer for, oh, yes.

It's about a party. call. Party scenes all time. Apex Mountain. I'm not just saying that because he's here. I'm not even going to look at him.

Yeah, Project X. No, it's Russell Hammond and Topeka, Kansas. Yeah. Golden God. You're just not getting a better party scenes.

I want to see the stand. I'm intentionally not looking at it. Do you think that was a good party? Which one? The Topeka party? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Seems like a good party. Yeah. Everybody's having a good time. That's what happened in the 70s. He's participating with them. Yeah. It's like he's one of them. He's there with

like Aaron when the snake gets eaten or the mouse gets eaten by the snake. Next category. And it's the 1984 thing, you know, when he says like in 11 years, it's going to be 1984. Think about that. Think about that.

This next category we have anyway, but this will be really fun with you here. Cruise or Hanks for the lead part? Who's winning the career total? Is Hanks ahead? There's only one rationally. Hank's is currently had. With Cameron here, there's only one rational answer.

I think it's definitely Cruz. It's the role. I don't know if Cruz ever would have played, although he did do eyes wide shut, so maybe all bets are off with Cruz. Frank T.J. Mackey is the closest. Oh. Or this collision between, like,

I'm a sexual god and all this vulnerability. It's definitely Cruz. It's definitely Cruz. Yeah. I think he could have done it. Hank's trying is funny. That would be amusing. That's a different flavor.

I don't know if he could pull up the haircut. This hair's like mine. It just goes up. I don't know if I want to see the hair dryer stuck in his pants. I don't know. Scorsese or Spielberg to direct? Scorsese. I agree that too.

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Lester. Had that as well. That's a dream to think about. That's one of the great Philip Seymour Hoffman's stories is his story. you had him for two days? Yeah, well, no. And he was sick, or you had him for a week?

We had him for a week. He was sick most of the time. That's why he's like a little red in the face and stuff and was like kind of coughing and his energy was low, but completely brought it. Did you know as you're filming it? This is like a legendary film somewhere else. Did you know you were changing my life

when you were making those scenes in that movie? I kind of did, because it was the first scene we filmed and he was on the street with Patrick Fuval. And they were doing the scene where I was walking with the real Lester Bangs. And so I was watching, you know, him do the very thing that I had done with Lester. And I was listening to it on the headset and he sounded like Lester. And I had this moment where I wanted to call up David Giffin and just say, talk to him about it. Because I felt like it was such a gift that I had been given to be able to do this and in continuity and everything.

So they got David Giffin on the phone and said hello. And I go, David Giffin, it's Cameron here. I just did my first scene and I just like, I can't believe that I'm here on the same street where it all happened and we're filming

with the same people, you know, on film that felt exactly the same. I can't, but how did I get here? And he goes, Jerry McGuire. I hung up.

Oh, my God. How's that for belief? It's right to the chase. Yeah, no, it's like, unbelievable. Let's speak truth and I'll be gone. So out of all the parts are the most famous,

which is the one that you felt like you had to get the actor perfectly for the part just for your insanity. Is it Lester Banks? No, it was Patrick Fugge. Yeah, William Miller. William Miller.

Got to be. But followed closely by Lester because we saw a lot of people for Lester and Gail Levin, the casting director, said at the very beginning, you're going to see everybody in town and you're going to end up with Philip Seymour Hoffman. And it happened exactly like that.

And he said, I talked to him, and I said to him on the phone, like, please play the party. He goes, okay. And I said, can you come and do, you know, a couple of weeks of rehearsals to do it. And he was like, I don't think you're going to need that. I'm like, well, I knew this guy.

It's very important to me. He's like a mentor. I got to get it right. And he goes, you won't need that much part. That's time, that much time with the part. But like, I'll come out. So I said, thank you so much. And he showed up.

He came to the office. He didn't have the flu yet. But he was in a pretty good mood. And he sat down. And he goes, well, let's just do the scenes. And he did all the scenes. back to back. And I said,

okay, we're rehearsed. This is great. He was there 45 minutes and he was back to the airport to fly home. That's how dialed in he was on Lester. But kind enough to know that that was what was going to happen

but still came out on the promise of two weeks. Then when he showed up, he had the flu. And so like battled through it. But it gave him a quality that I think was kind of corrosive in a really cool way. He would have brought...

Yeah, he seemed like beaten down. So you kind of needed him to be physically. basically sick. And when we got to the scene where he was supposed to say, you know, like, we're the uncool and stuff. I always saw that as like a victory scene.

Like, you know, we're the uncool. It's like that Todd Rundgren picture that's on this album, something, anything where he's like this was in my mind. And it was Phil Hoffman that said, like, why don't we do the scene?

Like, we're the only two people awake in the world, me and William Miller. We do it quiet. And I'll be sitting. We're uncool. And, yeah, it's spectacular.

Then you cut the scene where he's like, Like, William, how's the peepin? How's the peepin? Didn't make sense. Didn't make sense. Why? Why? Why? But yes, Lester. He would have been the Lester of our current time.

Have you met his son? No. Cooper? Yeah, no, I dig him. Great kid. Really? Yeah, we have some mutual friends. And he's very cool about his dad.

He's just like, you know, and he's a really good actor. But he's just like, ask me anything about my dad. Like, my dad was awesome. Like, I'm totally cool talking about it. I love that. He's a really good actor. All right, pick a Nets. Would Felicia have been more upset that George probably just fucked her 17-year-old daughter?

I feel like, yes. I suspect, yes. So maybe Beatty was correct? So you too have notes on Lee Grant's performance. I'm just trying to, I can't judge the 1968 what was going on that year. I think there's a case to me that there's like a shell shock protectionist quality that goes into play when something like that happens, where you're just like block it out tunnel vision. Pretend it didn't happen?

Yeah. Okay. What do you have for picking Nits? What's your biggest one? Just like the thing that doesn't quite work. Good thing. You're like, come on. After you've seen a movie seven times and you're like, all right, that blah, blah, blah.

I had a note. What was it? It was, yeah, it was like I just got confused whose house the party was and stuff. So that to me was like, why they all end up there? And I don't quite get why Lester is upset to go there. And it's kind of supposed to be his house. house. So I kind of got tripped up there, but that may not be the most stellar choice, but that kind of rubbed at me. One of the things that I was curious about is like,

are we supposed to think that she slept with Johnny Pope on the night of the party, Jill? It's intentionally ambiguous. It's ambiguous. Like Bady accuses her of it or kind of hints at it, I think. But are we supposed to think it happened? Yeah. He like has to come into the house, but she says no, which indicates that like he would follow her into the house because they had been intimate, but we don't really know what happened. And is she sleeping with him to get the part, or does she have more agency than that? And she's just going to be who she is, man. And I don't know.

It's a little, it may not be the perfect answer, but. How do you get a loan when you're a hairdresser to open a salon? In 1968. What do you got to present to the bank? What's a good, like, what's the process there? Like, do you bring in clients and say, like, these clients are coming with me? Like, how, what was George's plan here? I think that's why they shut them down.

But, like, if you were actually trying to do that, how would you do, you probably just need an independent investor. You can't get a bank to do it. But just this whole process pursuing that is very funny, where he thinks he's going to be able to get this. And he's just like, just trust me, bro. I got clients. That whole thing is all a little squishy as well.

I was a little squishy on how low the ask was. It's like $10,000 or something. So Lester has to really think about it. It's like, does this guy really? really have money? Or is he, even in 1968? Or is he a fraud?

Yeah. How rich is it? I have two for the party. This will be a good example of how picking Knits works. One is pretty stealth. The valets just get the cars way too quick.

It's a huge party. It's a great note. Cars are part. You're out at that party. You're out there for 20 minutes. Other people are out. People are smoking. You're talking to people.

The valet show. These cars are ready in it. But this is the bigger one. How does the motorcycle get to the last party? we see him in a car with Julie Christie going to the party and then the second thing, but he leaves the last party on his triumph motorcycle. How?

Wow. He didn't take the motorcycle there. Wow. Nice call, man. Should we delete this episode? What the hell? This movie is null and void. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. Maybe he made a call and someone brought it over. Well, since Cameron's here, we have to do a couple of picking nits for Jerry McGuire. Please. Oh, gosh. Why would Denver... Why would Denver want to trade up for Frank Cushman in 1996 when they had John Elway?

Where was your sports consultant on that one? Can we travel back in time and just get in a room and work this out of? They had John Elway. What do they need another quarterback? Well, maybe they were thinking about, you know, how to continue the legacy of great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys, it was a parallel universe, please. Okay.

All things are possible. Jesus. Don't you want to live there? Dorothy had a young kid in health benefits. Is she really quitting? he's got a young child. This did come up in our discussion in the film, I think. Yeah.

Pretty risky move. But she was inspired, right? She was inspired. I will go with you. And this is very close to the theme of the movie, you guys. This is like the people you don't expect who show up. That's a good answer. When you need somebody, it's the people you planned on being there for you, don't show up.

And that's usually how it works. When you were suspended by ESPN, where was I? Right by your side. You were. I was right by your side. You didn't care about health benefits. did not. Warren Beatty calling

the night of the LA Times story. It's like, where did that guy come from? All my friends, silent. It's like, this is why Dorothy makes that move. She is that character.

Sean, what if you had a child? Yeah. Would I have followed Bill? No, he was doing his people. He's producing NBA countdown. This was the big one.

We've argued about this in the movie. How he got back to the, to the divorce women's. support group after the Monday Night Football game. How long had that meeting been going on? So the Monday Night Football game starts 907 Eastern 1995. 707 Phoenix time, or is that 807 Phoenix time? Is it one hour back?

One hour? One hour back. 707. Game ends 1030, press conference. Airport, pre 9-11 though. The time travel happens in the airport run. That's where the splice happens. Lansing L.

So the divorced woman's group is. still going at one in the morning. Absolutely. Okay, so we just have goodbye to that. You could buy it. You have fucking problems, man. They gotta work through some shit. Is there coffee?

Everybody's tired? You can tell. Is there coffee at that point? Is it like 1130? Like, I need a little caffeine? By the time he gets there, my mom is counseling everybody in the room. It's like, you know, all their stories are gone. And she's just talking about neuropathways and stuff.

I mean, I like your close attention to this, but, you know. See, this is what we do. I'm here to help you through this stuff. intentionality. The biggest, the best one of all the ones we just mentioned that was the Triumph Motorcycle is not at that last party. It's just not.

Just one Oscar. You can only give one Oscar to anything in the movie. What do you give it to? Can I give it to the guy that does the Indian chant at the Bistro? Best supporting actor? I just want to give it to him. Or the woman who's next to

Jackie when she's talking about wanting to suck his cock. Oh, yeah. The woman at the table who next is like, yeah. Well, Lee Grant won it. I guess that's our answer. Somebody actually won the Oscar. I would make a case for town.

I think the script is amazing. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably answerable questions. We already did all mine unless you guys have any other ones. I mean, did George ever get a salon? Did Lester pay for it?

Did Lester and Jackie make it? Oh, that's a definite no. Yeah. You think they made it? No, no, no. I'm saying I'm agreeing with they broke up. But how long and does she move on to another situation? No.

I think she found somebody. else who had some money. I'm with you. I think that's what happens. Does George get the shop at all? I'm going to say, he's too much of a... He's a flake. He's too much of a flake.

I don't think he could run a business. Did anybody talk about what happens to George? Any of the filmmakers? He bounced around a few hair salons. I think there might have been some late 70s cocaine. Right. A path for him. Try this.

This stuff's great. No tragic end. Two years later, he's just getting... fired from his third salon. I got you. Yeah, I think it goes kind of badly for George. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What piece of memorabilia

would you want or not want from this movie? I think the triumph is eligible. So, oh, well, that's what I chose. I am not a motorcycle person. In fact, I don't want to get on a motorcycle. I don't want to ride in one. I'm scared of them. And yet I want the motorcycle.

That's how cool that motorcycle is. The brown leather jacket, I think, is in the running, too. The jacket he has for the one he whips into the garbage. I was kind of disappointed by that jacket. You don't like it? Yeah, I just, I didn't know if it was iconic enough. It seemed kind of thin and shiny in a way. Like, that's just me.

A little cheap, a little cheap, and maybe that's good character. Yeah. What about the blow dryer? Oh, that's a good one. That's a really good. Yeah, that's good. It depends. It's like, do you want a usable prop, you know?

Do you want something like the triumph where you can just, like, write around on it? Is the triumph just for show? I think it's for show. It's for show. living room. Yeah, got it. I feel like this should, category should be modified a little bit

to be the rewatchable studio prop from the movie. What could you put in a glass case in this room? Like the Cush spot. Yeah. Cush Corner, yeah. I would go with the earring just because it's like, that's good.

It's like the scene in the apartment, you know, like the cracked mirror. It's just everything kind of spins on it and it's just there. Are you aware of the memorabilia auction rise for Hollywood stuff, you must be. A little bit, yeah. Like the Shawshank Bible going for like $450,000.

Damn. I didn't know about that. Yeah, like shit's going down. How much can we get for the Penny Lane coat? Greg's excited in the corner and said, wait, what? He keeps it all. The Penny Lane coat, could we get some? Are you asking us to bid on it or?

No, I'm just like asking, just like, you know, I'm like Lester here. I would say just from almost famous, wouldn't it be the Russell? him and guitar used in the concert scene that we had the highest. Lloyd's boombox maybe, something like that. Lloyd's Boombbox? You don't have that to you. It's in my garage. Oh my God. Come on. Don't sit worth to you.

Oh my God. Don't sell it. Don't sell it. Yeah, that you can say. No, never. Never. I never saw that stuff. That's like, yeah, that's up there with a... Did she came back that it was memed again when QSack was at the Cubs game? Did you see? And he had his arms up and people were putting the boombox up? I did. I'm surprised. It's eternal, man. It's so amazing.

My daughter said that, This era's coming back. The Lloyd Dobler era is coming back. God willing. Her theory that shows Summer I turn pretty on Amazon. Everyone loves this character, Conrad.

And he's a big, like, he's like a quarter-earner person. And my daughter, who's 20, was like, this is, women want to be courted. Like, nobody courts us anymore. And that's why we like Conrad. And I was like,

it sounds like you would have like Lloyd Dobler. Lloyd is the only one that I would write and have thought about writing more about, you know, more of the- More of his story. O' Lloyd now? He owns a series of Muay Thai studios in Northern California.

Or in a number of eras. Just he's so much fun to write for, write that character. I loved it. I love it still. That's dangerous to say out loud. And guys, filmed by Laslo Covacks. The boombox scene is fucking filmed by the guy that filmed shampoo. Also a very important song choice scene.

Indeed, yeah. Only one song worked. And we did try everything. Yeah. Coach Finstock were Best Life Lesson, everyone sells out. I don't know if I agree with the lesson. It doesn't have to be that way. But that's the lesson of the movie or the theme, right?

Yeah. We're all going to sell out at some point? Well, it's kind of like an acid burn takeaway in the year the Jaws comes out and kind of changes movies forever, you know, that like you could say this is the highest arc of being able to end a movie where everyone loses. Yeah. And then... Did you have anything different?

Just that Jill is the only one that that that claws her way out of that so So optimism and hope do Does does triumph in in some way even in this kind of circumstance So Jill represents the Jimmy Carter presidency Or I'm just or keep going yeah Sounds like yeah Or what it didn't town say Jill is his attempt to write What a 70s woman was going to be

who had more control over herself and was able to make her own choices and not be so dependent on finances or men. And that's his attempt to have a little bit of a happy ending to it. So I kind of go with that as a mini lesson. There's a way out of this sellout generation. What do you have for double feature choice?

I wrote the parallax view down as basically just like the two sides of the baby persona where like there's not a single laugh in the parallax view. The whole time you're like, what the fuck is going on here? And it's right the movie right before this movie. Yeah, and it's right before this. Interesting. Cool choice. Cool choice.

I went Rules of the Game, which I think was, you know, a father of this movie in a way. The interrelationships, the kind of wistful feeling that Jean Renoir, the director who acts in Rules of the Game has, I would love to watch the two of them together. I had Nashville. I just went 1975 sprawling two different areas. Yeah, yeah. Both political, both full of music. And then who won the movie?

It's got to be Beatty. Baby. Yeah. Beatty all the way. All right. This is where we asked producer Craig, who hasn't seen a lot of these movies, especially before the 2000s,

what he thought. Loved it. Totally loved it. I'm increasing, starting to love all the movies from this era. But the charisma of all... We've corrupted them. Yeah, the charisma of all the actors in this movie it just jumps off the screen so much.

I also just appreciate that this movie's both trying to say something and is also just a good time and very enjoyable. And it feels like more and more now, movies that are trying to say something have to be serious or depressing. And a lot of your movies say something but are fun hangs and are enjoyable and laid back. And I don't know. This movie is just so unrecognizable to everything that's going on today

in so many ways. Like, we talked about LA, but, I mean, just the fact that it's such a small movie, such a small story, and it made $60 million, which is the equivalent of 360 today. It made $300 million adjusted for inflation domestic, which is the same that Jurassic, the new Jurassic Park made this year. Wow. It is just so remarkable that a movie this small can do what it did back then. But yeah, I just loved it across the board. It's amazing. It was both small but had major stars in it, which always helps. This is a really hard thing to do.

And it's also really true to make a point and sugar-coded enough in, like, charisma, great casting and all that stuff where it just goes down so easy. And it's not about, you must remember this, which does make those movies so serious. Yeah. I love it when you realize later how much was packed into the shit that made you laugh. Sometimes it's good to have major stars in a movie like this. And other times it isn't. Like I was like the sliding door is almost famous was if Brad Pitt's Russell Hammond. is that are better or a worse movie, right? And that almost happened.

And I actually think it's better that he wasn't, even though I love Brad Pitt. But in this case, it's so important that Beatty, who everyone knew at the time to be a ladies man, to make a movie about being a ladies man. And he never made a movie like this. So the idea of him leveraging that persona for everybody was genius. Like Bert Reynolds couldn't have been this.

He could have done it. It just wouldn't have been as good. It would have felt off. For sure, it would have felt off. I have a question for you guys. Yeah. What is the best use of celebrity in a movie? Like big stars.

What's your favorite use of big stars? When they're slightly off-brand or when they go full into brand but give you something extra? So we talk about just a lot. The thing I always say is every once in a while I want the A-lister to be an A-lister. Just like do... In Cruz, Cruz, Jerry McGuire is one of the ones we mentioned, right? He's like an interview the vampire the year before

dyed hair and he's far and away. And sometimes people just need to be the person we fell in love with in a movie and a movie. It sounds like stupid, but I don't think it's stupid. Just every few years,

be the person that we like. Yeah. I was think of Denzel as an interesting example of this because he very rarely transforms. He's always Denzel. He doesn't die his hair blonde. And his movie, Movies are very in quality, right?

And when they're good, they're the best movies of all time. And when they're bad, they can be pretty bad. And yet, there's something always very watchable about him. Yeah. You know, you'll watch him kind of make any... I've watched every Equalizer movie, and I really enjoy myself watching them. Another actor, I don't think I would have any time for those movies. So I do think that that is a...

But that's the 1% of the 1% of major stars. I mean, you know better than anybody, like, how hard it is to find somebody who you... The audience will be like, I'm with you no matter what. Yeah. Which I think Chalemay might have that quality. I agree. He's the next one of the under 30 guys. Leo definitely had it.

You've seen Marty? That's not a very likable character. And yet you're with him throughout that movie. Did you see it coming early on Shalamee? You know. Did he had that? Yeah, in Homeland Season 1 when he played the young, the boyfriend of the girl's mother, yeah.

I didn't see that one right away with him. Because he was really going to call me by your name, but I certainly didn't think he was going to be like the next guy. Leo was a little different because he was clearly really good. I've told this story about seeing him in a growing pains episode when he was this adopted kid in growing pain and he was just so much better than everybody. He was crying and flipping out. It was like, oh, my God. But it wasn't until this boy's life, we were like, oh, protect this person at all costs. With Chalemay, I've just been saying that this next movie, I think, is the like the ultimate test

of if the thing that a lot of your movies have, that a lot of movies over the last 75 years have, still exists. That, like, can you make an original movie, character-based drama that is not IP, that is not an event movie, and will people show up primarily because of who the star is? And is there enough of a wave of excitement for him that they'll buy into it because of that?

And Shalema has evolved into what Leo didn't have to do 20 years ago, which is Shalemay knows how to sell his movie and has actively evolved to the marketing of the film. I saw that viral piece. And he just has great. instincts for that, which is something Leo didn't have to do and actively refused. He didn't do S&L. He wouldn't do stuff like that.

Tim lean's all in. When they know kind of like how to use themselves and like how much you can you can kind of like move the aperture, but like really it's got to be this kind of thing and they're smart enough to know that like going wildly off in another direction might be artistically satisfying and, you know, sexy, but it's not going to work. And Cruz is a little bit like that. Like I heard him talking to somebody once who wanted him to do basically a cameo. and wouldn't it be fun if?

And he was, he was, he was really smart about it. He said, like, I could do it. But it would mess up your movie because I would, I would, that ship would tilt in a way that it would take on water. And I almost wish it wasn't that way. But when I'm in a movie, it kind of has to be right there. And T.J. Mackey is the only time where I kind of could mess around and be a smaller character doing such and such, but still use the thing. But like, basically, I have found over time that if you put me in a movie, I kind of draw attention. And so it's got to be kind of used in that way. And I thought

that was so super smart. You know what's interesting is PTA feels the exact opposite. He loves bringing like major, major famous people into his movie and kind of explaining. I don't even know if there's a right answer because I agree more with the cruise angle of like, I don't want to get taken out of the movie I'm watching because somebody's so famous. Yeah. You're like, oh, this person's in there? But, yeah, it's, I mean, if I was an up-accombing star, I would just want to work with good directors.

I think that blueprint's been established. Like, that's how you're going to win. But I do think the superhero cap screwed everything up for an entire generation. You felt like, totally agree. It was like, can you make it to the point where I might get a superhero movie? And that was your goal instead of like, ooh, good directors want to work with me. You hit a point in the 90s where people are like, if I'm in that guy's movie, I'm going to come off well.

And that's where I would... That's the best place to be. Yeah, that would be my Shalamey advice. Just go where the directors are, dude. I think you got the best advice ever from Leonardo DiCaprio, right? He said no hard drugs, no superheroes. Wow. That's great advice. And keep a little mystique.

Keep a little mystique is huge. Yeah. Because you can blow that so easily. And you're basically asked to, blow it constantly because we got to sell the movie. We got to do this and this and this and this. And the people that know to hold back, those are the ones that you lean forward and you go to. That was Nicholson. That was Nicholson. Nicholson was like, coming up next on the Tonight Show.

Jack Nicholson. Like, if he went on anything, you were stunned. They wanted him to be on the cover of Rolling Stone once. And I remember, and he sent back the message, I don't want to appear as myself on the cover and I won't do it. I also won't be on TV because then I'll be in your living room and I'll be your friend. I'm not your friend. I'm supposed to be very big. And I'm supposed to be somebody that you come to see because you don't know enough about me. And sorry.

Well, that's what made it so crazy when he came to the 84 finals of Boston. And he was just there as a Laker fan. Everybody was like, Nicholson's here. This is up there, like, giving us the middle finger. Like, we just said, like, it broke our brains. Which is mystique. Yeah.

The coolest. They did it. Leo's done a great job. I mean, Leo's in his 50s now. I still don't feel like I know that much about him. And then he likes the ladies. You got to love. That's about it.

You want to talk about your book for a quick second? How long were you working on it? I don't know. A couple years, definitely. It was writing for pure joy. I just, like, we had done enough scripts at the time, and we had worked on a musical of Almost Famous, and I just felt like,

I want to get back to like the analog thing a little bit and write about, learn about my dad and some stuff that happened growing up that I didn't really know enough or had written about and to also tell some of the stories behind the stories that I'd written for Rolling Stone.

And so this is just me, basically the first language of writing, just writing for pure joy on yellow legal tablets. I had like 800 pages and cut it down. The finger still worked. Literally. My finger stopped work. It's my handwritten.

It's my favorite kind of writing. Do they work? We'll see. One of these days. I'm a letterbox tonight. No, it's good. Yeah, I guess you do write some letterbox stuff for once. Every once in a while.

I read emails that's about it at this point. I wrote like 5 million words. I mean, what do people want for me? For 15 straight years. It's time for mystique. 10,000 words a week for 15 years, 20 years. They're demanding more. They're demanding more from you?

I love writing. love it. I love it and I love directing where the words come to life with the actors, the kind of actors that we were talking about. It's the most fun. You know what's the most fun of directing besides putting the music on the scenes? The little things that an audience finds that

cracks them up that you had no idea was funny. Because that means you built characters that they care about. So like the little things... What's an example of that in one of your movies someone told you about? I don't know. Like in Jerry Maguire, I can come up with Bonnie Hunt saying don't cry at the beginning of date cry at the end like I do, which we thought was like a funny little filler line and it's like

huge laughs. In almost famous Eric Stone Street saying you got a message from your mother, she's a handful. Biggest laugh in the movie. That's a great movie. The clerk saying she's a handful. So like that's the stuff that makes you really laugh because you know, you're you've cut that line a million times and somehow it snuck back in and it ends up like bringing the house down. It's the most fun.

And you never find out until the first time you show the movie, and it never changes. Yeah, the only experience I've had with that. Doing documentaries, the same thing. It's always shocking what hits. You just have, because you've seen all the cuts of stuff and you've no idea. Sometimes it can be a word. Oh, that one? Really?

Yeah. You can't believe it. It can be a word. But for a movie, it's got to be more fun. Sometimes it's a gesture. It's wild. And so, you know, I just, I love doing it. And the book is really an extension of personal writing,

which is my favorite kind of movie making and my favorite kind of writing. And songs. I mean, shit. The personal stuff. I've had one of the most unique careers. Wouldn't the Rolling Stone, how old were you? 15 when I started. Think about that.

Think about that. Think about that, Sean. How old's your daughter? I'm a huge failure. What do you want me to say? I've accomplished nothing. I agree. How old is your daughter?

My daughter's four. So 11 years from now writing for Rolling Stone? That seems inconceivable. I don't see that happening for a variety of reasons. But I will explain to her how special Cameron's life and work is. I just think that's crazy that you were able to fulfill a task at age 15. I was like barely handing term papers in. Will you do like a follow-up to this?

Because this is only a part of your life. This isn't everything you've done. I probably will. The next one is going to be a colloquium. collection of the journalism that happened during the time because this is this is kind of like how the stories happened and everything so the next one um is going to be a collection of the the stories from the time and also i re-interviewed a lot of the same people like flewood mac and even bowie and i just in the last 15 years i went around and and talked again to a lot of the people

that we did those big cover stories on and it was fascinating how they related to their younger selves and so that's in there too and then maybe I'll write more but I want to make some movies now. What was the best concert? Especially talking to you guys. I know you're rejuvenated. Come on, man, come on.

What was the single best concert you ever went to? The Who, San Diego. One of the first concerts, maybe the second concert I ever went to. Amazing concert. I had like a cheap seat and I snuck down right before the Who came on and the audience like huge,

like all the general seating people just like crammed up to the front and I got caught up in it and I got slammed to the front of the barrier. And so they were six feet away from me and the Hume come out. Fucking Keith Moon tumbles onto the drum set across the stage and they, and Daltry comes out swinging his mic and Entwistle puts on his base. And then Townsend comes out in this silver jumpsuit with the crown. He goes, hello San Diego. What a pleasure to be here in your trash can. Because the sports arena looks like a trash can.

I'm like, fuck. He knows San Diego. He knows everything. And then the audience crushed me into the barrier and I couldn't breathe. That was the best. That's great. At some point, can you write a book about movies the way Tarantino did? I love the Tarantino book.

Just like eight, nine movies that meant something. You know, and Y. I think it's an easy layup book for you. So fun. Thanks. I mean, and it would be... This was Chapter 1. It would be about the personal experience. that you have with the movie.

I think every great director should be forced to write a book like that. Forced? Yeah, forced. Like in a fascist regime? Like, Trump does a decree. Great. Okay.

Here's what I've decided. We're going to have these people. It's going to be great. That's the good thing I would ask him for if I got his ear. I'd be like, can you please send down a decree that Cameron Crowe write a movie book just for me to read? And protect movie theaters. Can you do that too?

Cameron Crow, this is a true pleasure. Good luck for the book. And thank you guys. For our Cush sign. Well, Cush will be here. I can't wait to figure out. It's going to be, I'll figure it out. It'll be prominently somewhere.

Just as long as you hear a little strains of cush lash when you look at it. Yeah, yeah. This is great, though. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks to have. Thanks to Craig as well. Thanks to Edwardo. And we'll see in the rewatchables next week. Fantastic.

Thanks for it let me come in and hang. Hey, it's Sophia Wilson, athlete and gold medalist. And this summer, my wardrobe is being perfected with Abercrombie's newest drop. I'm a girl who loves jeans and Abercrombie's new linen blend denim, has changed the game for me. They have that lightweight feel for summer. But the outfits I live in all summer are matching sets. They always look good and they give your wardrobe options. Spend the summer in Abercrombie, shop in the app, online, and in stores.