The Rewatchables - ‘Skyfall’ With Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: November 21, 2019

Now, The Ringer’s Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins only eat rat after rewatching the 2012 hit ‘Skyfall’ starring Daniel Craig, Javier Bardem, and Judi Dench. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No, they only eat rat. This is Skyfall, rewatchables. What a hell of you be? Enjoying death. 007 reporting for duty. Everybody needs a hobby. So what's yours? Resurrection.

I'm so excited for this one. This is the first James Bond movie we've ever done on the rewatchables, and I could not think of two people I'd rather do with it more than Amanda Dobbins. Hello. Who might be the biggest Skyfall fan of anyone on planet Earth. I'm wildly excited for this. And Sean Fennessee. If she's M, I'm cute.

You're Gareth Mallory. Okay. Yeah. The new M. Yeah. Let's talk about Skyfall, the 2012 James Bond movie. It was the 23rd James Bond movie. and it is widely considered to be, I don't know, it's easily the most critically acclaimed James Bond movie.

That was sort of the point. There were rumors around director Sam Mendes, who was coming on to do the James Bond films and wound up doing two of them, that he had basically engineered this to be a critically acclaimed James Bond movie. It was engineered to try and win Oscars. It did not really rack up the awards, but it racked up quite a bit of coin. It made $1 billion at the box office directed by Sam Mendes, written by Neil Purvis and Robert Waite. who are longtime bond scribes and John Logan, who wrote Gladiator with an uncredited assist by British playwright and screenwriter Jez Butterworth, who I recklessly suspect wrote these scenes between Bond and Silva, but that could be false. He also worked on Spector.

Like I said, it made him $1.1 billion worldwide at the box office. It was nominated for Best Score, Best Song, sound editing, sound mixing, and cinematography, and won for Best Song and Sound Mixing. And it is the prestige bond. It is the movie that they, when they decided, hey, we can't like Christopher Nolan have all the fun making Bond-esque thrillers that get all this critical acclaim. Let's do it ourselves. And why don't we open it up here?

You know, I have a lot of things to say about it, but Amanda. As somebody who is, I think you mentioned Skyfall to me. You are actually the case study of a rewatchable movie fan in this case because you say Skyfall was on last night and I had to finish it. Yeah, well, the problem is it's not off and on. And so I own it. And then it's on in my home because I put it on. And then my husband is like, oh, no, not again. Do I have to hear you do the Javier Bardem speech one more time?

This is the best Bond movie to me. And I, you know, it's critically acclaimed. We'll order up for you. I do like Casino Royale. And then I'm trying to think in terms of the, it's Sean Connery otherwise. And I think those are all kind of a blur to me growing up. It's just they were on the home. They're on marathons on.

Yeah. And so it's more just kind of Sean Connery running around looking like Sean Connery is my idea of a Bond. And I think that's kind of why I respond to the Dan O'Krag movies and specifically Skyfall is because it has such a different idea of what a Bond movie is and who James Bond is even as it is quite faithful and referencing everything that came before it. It has ideas about the actual character of James Bond. It has ideas about empire. It has ideas about. It has ideas about. how to make an action movie. And I just, I think that it is both really enjoyable and also a rich text. It also, like, I mean, it hits so many different quadrants, John. Like, it's like, it's got music, it's got action, it's got romance, it's got humor. It's, it has a kind of classical satisfaction level that, like, movies rarely hit on that regularity. Yeah, it's interesting you pose the Sam Mendi's bid for prestige. Maybe this is some of my own biases bursting through, like the living daylights.

But I am not a huge bond person. I've never been a huge bond person. I have probably seen somewhere between half and two-thirds of the films. And it never really clicked. I didn't catalog it, the way you would catalog Star Wars or the way you would catalog horror movies where you're like, this exists in this universe that you have to understand in full. For whatever reason, it never really got to me that way.

This movie scratches that part of my brain that a lot of the other bond movies don't, I think, because of what you're describing, which is that it's so. well made with so much clarity, but it's not, it doesn't abandon what makes Bond good, but it gives you a lot if he's not as important to you, because it gives you a little bit of psychological backstory. It gives you, even the theme song is, is a just a better version of a theme song than a lot of the Bond theme songs. You know, the Casino Royale theme song is not a bad song, but it's sung by Chris Cornell and it's kind of weird. Yeah. And the, the theme song in Quantum of Salas is sung by Jack White and Alicia Keys, and it's actually quite strange. The Adel

song, it feels like it's 100 years old and also incredibly modern, you know? The movie is shot by Roger Deacons. Like for movie nerds, that's just candy. It's just catnip. So it's giving you all these other additional things that most of these movies never gave me. It feels like best in class bond, best song, best photography, possibly the best performance of a bond and best villain. Yes. And best supporting cast, too. We have to talk about the absolutely stacked cast from top to bottom because they are doing a lot with, in a lot of ways, the script has a lot of ideas, but there are some pretty stock lines. Yeah, sure.

Yeah. And but then you have Judy Hens and Ray Fines, like making all of these things same. I think, I can't remember if it was Adam Neiman actually wrote about this in reverse shot when it came out. Adam Neiman writes a lot for the rigor. But I think he mentions that most of the people who work at MI6 have played Hamlet. Rory Kinear, Ben Wischaw, Ray Fines, Judy Hens have all played Hamlet before. If you're just like, oh, this is just an incredible actor who happens to be Tanner who's driving the car, you know, you wind up getting like a race floor.

But the big thing that I wanted to talk about off the top and we'll obviously address this a bunch of times throughout the pub is Javier Bardem as Silva. Because I think that that takes this movie to another level. In a lot of ways, I think Skyfall is at least two, if not three movies. You've got the first hour or so, which is basically the death and resurrection of Bond and the Shanghai sequence, which is class. classic bond. It's just, it's got Severin, it's got this shootout in it, in an incredible locale, it's got intrigue and espionage. Sex violence and debonair. Absolutely. And the martini. And you know, you get a lot of the, with the, you know, him coming back to the service and having to go through the psychological

and physical training he does, you get a peek into like sort of what this movie is about. But everything changes when he goes to the abandoned island off of Macau. And, and especially changes when Silva comes on for the first time. And the movie kind of goes off in a different direction in a lot of different ways. Amanda, I know you feel very strongly about Javier Arbardem's performance in this movie. Why don't you talk to me a little bit about Rallel Silva?

I think it's an outrage that Javier Bredem is not nominated for an Oscar. That's my number two outrage of Oscar outrage of the decade behind Social Network not winning. This is transcendent. Yes. And weird and bizarre and entirely memorable and very funny and very fucked up.

And there is a thing. Bond villain is kind of like a catchphrase in society for a reason because they aren't often the most fleshed out, like, well-developed characters. They always have like cockamamie plots. It's like a mcuffin, essentially, in those movies. And that's kind of why, for instance, all the Sean Connery ones blend together for me because I'm just like, oh, there's a bad guy and he wants to take over the world probably with some weapons.

and then also, you know, James Bond, like, stops it. They're as malleable as Bond themselves. There's so many different blowfell, there's so many different, yeah, villains. But in addition to being a super ridiculous human with blonde, no country hair, who gives a speech about rats, Silvas is a mirror of James Bond in a lot of ways. So it's both a completely ostentious performance and a really close, intimate storyline. And you can't do better than that. It's a great point.

I think the only reason he didn't win and wasn't nominated is, because he just won three years or five years before this for no country. So supporting actor. Yeah, supporting actor that year was Alan Arkin for Argo, Robert De Niro for Silver Lines Playbook, Philip Seymour Hoffman for The Master, Tommy Lee Jones and Lincoln and Christoph Waltz, who won for Django Unchained. He'd also, I believe, won for Unglorious Bastards. So that was, to go against that, that's a shame.

He also is the next Bond villain inspector. That's right. So there's some, there's like a, there's a certain kind of actor that is drawn to this thing. And I think when Mads Mikkelson comes into Casino Royale and then Matthew Almorak is in Quantum of Salas, the quality of performer starts to improve as the villains of these movies, and Bardem being an Oscar winner,

and Waltz being an Oscar winner. Rami Malik is now an Oscar winner. And Rami Mollick and Oscar winner. Exactly. So, like, sensing a trend. And they've really raised the bar. Yeah. The Mendez movie is,

it started with Casino Royale and Quantum, which I think are pretty good, casino much more so than Quantum. but this movie and part of it is because of Mendes' theater background I think confers this air of prestige, this air of importance.

And I think when you get good writing and like we kind of, we mentioned Jess Butterworth, but I think John Logan too is really just one of the best screenwriters of the 21st century. His credits are amazing. He wrote one of my favorite movies ever, Rango.

And he has also secretly participated in the creation of a lot of movies and he's very good at this psychological thing that we're talking about. here of creating a different kind of stakes in a very familiar format. Yeah. And that's what's so great about the movie. Yeah.

So, I mean, Silva essentially plays Hannibal Lecter meets Julian Assange, meets Robert Shaw's blonde Adonis from Russia with Love. Yeah. And he even has the Jaws-esque mouthpiece going on. There's some of the nods, Easter eggs for Bond fans. But he seems to be a creation completely onto his own, obviously imbued with like the physicality and the homereroticism. and the absolutely shattered

like he talks about like the cyanide burned away his inside so obviously his heart but like everything else. And so much of the Silva Bond M triangle is the thing that like I is what I keep responding to. I mean I love the Shanghai stuff. I love the train shootout.

I love the end in Glencoe with like the, you know, the winter scape on fire. But ultimately the thing that you keep going back for is this incredibly disturbing mommy drama with M being this, you know, maternal figure to these two men who are essentially two sides of the same coin. Yeah. We've talked a lot about the script's origins, but we haven't mentioned that before Skyfall, there was another script for the 23rd movie that was written by Peter Morgan. And that

script was too dark, apparently, and was thrown away, although it did have, I believe, the basic blueprint of the M character as a standpoint. As a standpoint. And in for England and Empire doing some possibly questionable things. And then having, I believe it was that the script was like she had an actual son who then kind of rose up against her. And there are, we can get to this in half-ass internet research, but there is a lot of online scholarship suggesting that that is kind of the case. That Sylva is sort of her adopted son that she abandoned. Well, I mean, there are certainly shades of it anyway and that basic theme. And so it's both the mommy and the son's drama.

There is that Empire, England aspect of it, which, you know, Peter Morgan has made. made that his life's work and the crown and in the queen and all of that stuff. And it's really layered and screwed up and fascinating because it works both on that super human, interpersonal, all of us are in the chapel at the end level. And it works on like a international level. I feel like it's also the ultimate payoff of what starts in the first Craig movie, which is the first time when Vesper turns on him at the end of the film and you start to realize that Bond can feel things. Yeah. And this movie is, you know, it seems highfalutin, but it's really purposeful.

Like, it's very much about trauma. It's very much about what happened to you when you were a kid. What happened to you at your job? What are the things that happen to you that you can't forget and you can't get away from? Yes. And it's true for Silva. It's true for M. It's true for every significant character in the movie.

And that's just so much to put on a movie like this. But it works so well because you've got so many great performers. The writing is so good. It looks so beautiful. Like, it never feels forced. And a lot of times when you try to put a big idea inside of a franchise movie, it feels like it's just like an anvil wing

the thing down. And in this case, it just doesn't feel that way. Yeah, I mean, it's part of it is the performances. Part of it is the fact that they make the surrounding scenes even though it's like a Macau sex worker and, you know, like, you know, very fines getting shot and hearing and stuff like that.

Like, even though dark stuff happens around Silva and Bond, that seems to be happening almost in a different kind of atmosphere. And then the Silva Bond's, stuff, even down to the entrance of Silva, which we will talk about, I'm sure, being the sustained one-take speech that he gives is so different than anything we've ever seen with Bond. You know, when we do rewatchables, I think there's always like an interesting conversation about the choices of the movies and tonally what kind of movies we're talking about.

And despite this movie being somewhat dark and really grappling with these ideas about, I mean, the stuff, when Silva and Bond are talking, M is almost explicitly the majesty. It's almost explicitly the crown and this idea of England and what England took from us and what England made us into. And England never lied to me and all these ideas. And then she's fucking quoting Tennyson. I mean, it couldn't be any more explicit. But I kind of look forward to that turn every time. I look forward to going to Scotland every time I watch Skyfall because you kind of get to go on that emotional journey every time. I never find it dull.

Yeah, I think it's because it's still a Bond movie too. You know, you still get payoff. Yeah. You know, like these movies have to fulfill like a certain kind of not just emotional stakes, but just like it just has to touch your brain in a way. It's like action set piece here, steamy shower scene here, showdown with your villain here. If you get all those things going but you do them at the highest possible level, it still works. And it still pays off too to like go to go to go. to Skyfall at the end of the movie to see Albert Finney

to have this big shootout happened. And they booby trap the house. It's not like it's not fun. Right. They make all these like special... There's a giant helicopter and a subway train crash in this movie, along with guys fighting on a train, along with another one. Every single time I think I actually forget one set piece. And I'm like, oh yeah, it's this one. But they're all really engaging, which I think is pretty rare even for a Bond movie.

You know, there's always one or two where you're like, oh, really, you guys tried something here. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't totally work. Especially the late period ones feel very. like rewritten on the fly and you know like oh well we just decided to get rid of this storyline so these characters kind of vanish but skyfall is like the unfor is unforgiven to me it's like it is the reckoning with everything that's come before it it sets it up for the future if they wanted to go that way uh it's a shame specter didn't really fulfill the promise no but it's still feature it's still the kind of movie that features james bond springboarding off of a comodo dragon yes to get out of a

pit yeah like it's still a james bond movie you know it never the fact that it never gives that up is just what makes it such a unique thing. Right. And they film on location, or at least much of it is on location. They're in Istanbul. They're running on the train. You know, sometimes I just want to like see beautiful places. Part of the reason you're excited to get the skyfall is because of those shots of Scotland and, you know, when the first band of the Silva guys arrive and that shot of them just like walking across the field, it's unbelievably beautiful. Or skyfall on fire from afar and helicopter flying over, all that first shot when they're in that sort of, you know, Asian kingdom and the dragon and you see it from far away.

And the lanterns, yeah. All of that stuff is just so amazing to look at it. It's so evocative. It's transporting, but it also feels very, like, visceral because all of these sequences wind up having, like, a very practical, lived-in feel to them rather than, rather than animation, essentially. Should we get to the categories? Did you guys have any other, like, top notes you'd wanted to sound on Skyfall?

I mean, Daniel Craig is really my, sincerely my entry into these movies in a serious way. And I just think he's amazing and I'm sad that this is going to be the last one. I think it's been said many times like what he brought to the part and how he changed it and we can talk about that. But it's useful to have a legitimately great actor do this. Yeah. And that just wasn't really true for most of the bonds. They were great movie performers, but not necessarily great actors. Connery is a great actor, but even at that time in his career, he wasn't, he hadn't quite built up all of his chops in this way. That was a different kind of thing.

I mean, Bond movies were essentially, I think, they were obviously hugely popular and very important in England, but I think that the way we're talking about it, it's like they were kind of viewed as kind of like B movies and kind of fun, and sometimes they made the same movie again, or they made another movie once with Roger Moore and once with Sean Connery. So I think it's like kind of like, I love for much more love, I love you only live twice, I love Dr. No.

I mean, they're all incredibly problematic in their own ways now. But I really love those Connery movies precisely because they're so bite-sized in a lot of ways. Yeah. Their stakes are pretty small. Skyfall is Shakespearean, essentially, both in terms of the actual plot

and its scope and the type of performance that everyone is bringing to it. And also, I think it's worth noting with Craig. It's like they got two movies to sort of figure out how to make them with Craig. And then Skyfall, he convinces Mendez to do it after Mendez comes and sees him in a play. And he talks Mendez into making Skyfall.

And that's the one where they're like, everybody is firing on all cylinders, and then it's Spector when Craig is like, if I ever make another James Bond movie, I'm going to kill myself. Now he is making another James Bond movie, so obviously drop the bag. You know, I think that this is,

you're really seeing the best of what this series can be in this movie. I completely agree. All right, let's get into categories. All right. This is a really, really exciting, most rewatchable scene movie. But I tried to boil it down to...

Five. Okay. Okay. And I tried to be a little bit more, like, tight about, like, scene versus sequence. But let's just go through it. So that be, with that in mind, the Shanghai skyscraper shootout. Yeah. Yes.

The new MI6 Churchill's Tunnels Bond training scene of, like, the, you know, Ward Association doing sit-ups while Rory Keneer is trying to explain the state of the world. You're thinking more sequence. Yeah. Okay. Not seen. No, I'm not talking. Because that was like,

I think that's like a montage essentially, so I'm putting that together. Because even the, even the, you know, the tower assassination. Right. And there's the fight and then there's the elevator getting up. Well, that's how that, are you talking about Macau? Oh, okay. So there's, okay. So you're talking about both the assassinations.

Get your different parts of China together, man. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize. It's okay. So the Shanghai skyscraper shootout. That's the scene that was talking about. I was specifically, I'm allowing the MI6, the new MI6,

the new MI6 introduction to be a scene even though that is essentially a sequence. Silva and Bond meet for the first time. The William Tell scene. The Javier Bardem speech, all that stuff. The tube chase? Fucking amazing.

And the church scene at the end. So a lot of these are... And we can go through this and you can add... Are big set PC sequences. Right. But I think that there are... And I'm not saying that these are the best scenes, but part of what connects me to the movie is some of the smaller stuff like the first meeting with Q.

I'm your new quartermaster. You must be joking. Why? Because I'm not wearing a lab coat. Because you still have spots. My complexion is hardly relevant. Your competence is. Age is no guarantee of efficiency. And youth is no guarantee of innovation.

Well, hazard, I can do more damage on my laptop sitting in my pajamas before my first cup of Earl Grey than you can do in a year in the field. So what do you need me? Every now and then a trigger has to be pulled. Or not pulled. It's hard to know which in your pajamas. And they're looking at the Turner painting and they're talking and they're, you know, they're talking. I see an old ship.

They're talking in metaphor and cross purposes. It's really well-written dialogue. Wishaw is really great as cue. And that's not a sequence in which a train. burst through the ground and almost kills Bond. Now, obviously, that's why you watch Bond movies. But what makes this movie special to me is the scenes like that. Yeah. So I would pitch that

as one. Have that on my list as well. What else is on your list? When she's doing Tennyson and she's reading it and then they just cut to Daniel Craig sprinting through London with, I think, one of the monuments, I think it's Big Ben in the background. And they're laying it on thick, but I find

it so moving every time. Just one more thing to say, my late husband was a great lover of poetry and I suppose some of it sunk in despite my best intentions and here today I remember this I think from Tennyson we are not now that strength

which in old days moved earth and heaven that which we are we are one equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. Also, Daniel Craig is a fantastic movie runner

might be number two behind Cruz. Yeah, and they're making that suit work for him. He's too bulky. His swims are very short. I think that this movie came out a couple of months after the Olympics in in London and he his James Bond like as a character kicked off the Olympics and the Danny Boyle opening sequence. So it was a real time of pride in this character and strangely pride in what he stood for which is not always like the most you know not always the right thing to do I think James Bond is on the had some questionable tactics no doubt and one of my other favorite sequences that is mostly just dialogue is Mallory and M having a kind of philosophical conversation. deeper into the movie where they're talking about

who the enemy is. Yeah, whether it's in the shadows or not. The shadows or not. Prime Minister's ordered an inquiry. You'll have to appear. Oh, standing in the stocks at midday, who's antiquated now? For Christ's sake, listen to yourself.

We're a democracy and we're accountable to the people we're trying to defend. We can't keep working in the shadows. There are no more shadows. You don't get this, do you? Whoever's behind this, whoever's doing it, he knows us.

He's one of us. He comes from the same place. This is Bond. The place you say doesn't exist. The shadows. That is also just hugely metaphorical about how you wage a war on terror on what it means to be nationalistic on what the rights of a government are to exceed its own power. Like it's pretty cool stuff. And obviously then that gets reflected in the court scene later in the film.

But, you know, all of that little stuff working as well as it does. Like, I don't know if you guys have watched Quantum of Salas recently. I rewatch it and it's like there's nothing like that in that movie. Like, there are no, and partially because that movie was written during the writer's strike, but there's nothing that has that kind of Christmas, that kind of like deep thinking about what these movies mean. So that's probably my only other, like, dialogue sequence aside from Silva stuff. I have two more suggestions. One is dialogue-ish, but it's the first part of the Skyfall sequence when he's there with Kincaid with Albert Finney. And they're, they're making their plans and they're talking about what's going to happen.

And Daniel Craig has that iconic line of. Some men are coming to kill us. We're going to kill them first. Then we'd better get ready. I think the Kincaid character does a lot with a little. Yeah. But it is people talking to each other and there's real chemistry. But that's like right out of Eastwood.

That's the coolest thing about that. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And then I think I would be remiss if I didn't do once they're on top of the train. Mm-hmm. And they're just like fighting each other just on top of a train. I find that pretty accessible as far as action sequence. He gets into the excavator and he's like trying to like...

And then when he finally jumps down into the train and just like adjusts his sleeve. Yeah. That's some great James Bond shit. Let's be real. I'm trying to remember the first time I watched this movie because that that whole part up until when he gets shot. But even through that whole part like the whole Istanbul sequence feels very like typical bond. It's like bond in two or three different vehicles. Assisted by Money Penny.

We don't know that at that point. But she's they're having great banter. Oh, like, what was that? And she was like, VW Beatles, I think, you know? And then it just changes on a dime when M orders her to take the shot, which is that kind of, I think that's in the trailer, and it obviously cues the great Adele song. Yes.

And it really is one of the first pivot points of the movie, though. It's so genius, though. But the stuff that is the traditional bond stuff, even in that sequence, that opening scene, when he's riding through his sandbow on that narrow walkway on a motorcycle, is just one of those things that's like, it's not logical. You would never take a motorcycle into that space.

You'd never pitch a motorcycle chase there. But it's just, it's shot so well, it looks so cool. It's like a, it's very high wire act level of action. Well, the movie is just so good at indulging in cliches. I mean, like, how many fucking car chases have we seen through food markets? Listen, anytime people are running on roofs through Europe, I'm excited. I just like, just do it every time and I am in. So thank you.

So what is your, what is your pick for this? I don't, I think this is a category of one. It's just got to be the Silva intro. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk. Mommy was very bad.

Mommy was very bad scene. Let's talk about this a little bit. There are some great scenes where they're great because of where they happen in the story. Or they're great because they're so surprising or they're great because of a piece of camera work like the Copacabana scene in Goodfellas. Like you wouldn't necessarily remember that, but it's the music and the camera movement and everything else. And then there are scenes that you can tell that the people making the movie know what they've got in their hands. And I don't know what the backstory is for this or who wrote this particular speech or how they staged it or how they decided where they were going to set it, all that stuff. But the fact that he shoots at, the Mendi shoots at the way it is with Deacons where it's just right behind Bond's shoulder.

This guy comes down in an elevator and from about 40 feet away starts talking. They knew what they had. And it's so great that they just let us have it. They don't get in the way. we don't get to see what he looks like until he's sort of arriving at the conclusion of the rats on the island story and he

completely fucks this movie up so hard. It is like put me in a tindrum and feed me coconut and then make me become the rat eater. It is unreal how good he is in this scene. Hello James. Welcome.

Do you like the island? My grandmother had an island. Nothing to boast of. We could walk around it in an hour, but still it was a paradise for us. One summer, we went for a visit and discovered the place had been infested with rats. It come on a fishing boat and gorged themselves on coconut. So how do you get rats off an island? My grandmother showed me. We buried an oil drum and hinged the lead. Then we wired coconut to the lid. Then we wired coconut to the eat as bait and the rats would come for the coconut and they would fall into the drum and after a month you've trapped all the rats but what did you do then throw the drum into the ocean

burn it you just leave it and they begin to get hungry and one by one they start eating each other Until there are only two left. The two survivors. And then what? Do you kill them? No. You take them and release them into the trees. But now they don't eat coconut anymore.

Now they only eat rat. You have changed their nature. The two survivors. This is what she made us. It's also a very good inversion. You know, a lot of times in James Bond movies, you have to wait until the end for the villain to give their big speech.

That's what the movie is leading to, and it became such a cliche. The movies like Austin Powers parodied it till no end and like the explaining the big plot while waiting for the sharks to eat Bond when he's hanging over some sort of crazy... I'm going to kill you slow, Mr. Bond.

That happens right here. Like in the first act of the movie, basically. It's the end of the first act of the movie and we get this guy doing this already. And then, you know, Silva is so good and he's such a useful character that he gets to have basically two more of these.

But this one is like, it's just playwriting. Like that's what it is. Like one big long speech metaphor, monologue that tells you everything you need to know about the character, right? Like that's the whole point of the bit.

But they add the spice of being like, is he sexually attracted to bond? Is there some sort of fraternal relationship between them? Is it brotherhood? Is it something physical? I wonder so much about how this performance came together. And I'm very curious what scene they did first or like the moment when everyone's like, oh, this is what he's doing.

Yes. And I wonder whether it's before this. So they know to just kind of lean in and like let him fly. But you know, at the same time, the rat speech itself is just like excellent screenwriting. I do wonder whether the unbuttoning is in the script or whether that's just hard. It kind of feels like it's just Javier Bardem is bringing it. Yes. And everyone's just along for the right.

And you even see Daniel Craig like really lights up. He is like more into that than he has been to any bond girl since I have a green. Javier Baird Baird M is the greatest Bond girl. It basically is. But it just, Chris, I think you said already, it just completely tilts the movie on its access. You're watching one really well done Bond movie. And, you know, even there it has some themes and you're like, oh, this is about end of empire and getting old and all all of the bond stuff that we know.

And then in comes this whackadoo person. Yes. And who is like both very funny and really destabilizing. He is definitely more unsettling than most other bond villains. Yeah. While also just really being really appealing. Like all this stuff about him telling him the truth, you know, and just being like, medical evaluation fail, physical evaluation, fail, psychological evaluation,

alcohol and substance addiction indicated. Oof. Pathological rejection of authority based on unresolved childhood trauma. Subject is not approved for field duty and immediate suspension from service advised. It just feels so alive with this like Freudian fucked up. Like who are these guys? And the fact that they actually don't, and we're going to talk a lot about this, but that they don't dot all the eyes and cross all the T's with Silva and M.

Lane, like, well, this is exactly what it. She brushes it aside with one line where she's like, he was my agent in Hong Kong. He got caught hacking the Chinese and I wanted to have a smooth transition. So I basically let him go. The other thing that's so interesting about the character is it kind of just sees the future. It's a, a lot of Bond movies are about like hacking the world, but not hacking individual people. And the idea of James Bond being hacked in real time in 2012, and that being the highest form of terrorism. the idea of MI6 being infiltrated in this way with this technology

is like pretty close to where we are right now. The same sort of fears that we have about people having our information and using it to ill-gotten gains is like pretty is not going to expire anytime soon. And making that really his primary focus as a villain is kind of fascinating. Because obviously he's motivated by revenge and this kind of, you know, like you guys are saying, both this Freudian and Shakespearean tale of, I have to kill my mom and I have to kill everybody who loves my mom. but beyond that, there's just like a technocracy aspect to the story that is different from, you know, Mads Mikkelson is going to torture you until you tell him the code so that he can get money.

Right. Like most of these movies are about just getting money and getting power. And then this is something different. How much of this is also the setting and the fact that like they found this, I mean, it's based on an island off of Nagasaki actually, but it is, they shot it in Macau. But the idea that this guy scared everyone off of an island. with a fake chemical leak, and now they're in this weird, it seems almost like French colonial abandoned post-industrial island. And so this whole thing is happening in this faded ghost town.

Right. Which in a lot of ways parallels what Bond is doing for the first 20 or 30 minutes of the movie because he also, like, quote, dies and it is destroying death and gets to do the weird scorpion trick. Oh, we didn't talk about the scorpion scene. That's, oh, it's so good. That's a great one. I have a full scene. I have some nitpicks.

Sure. Yeah. I'm not buying it. Just the idea of like keep it a low pro and you're like the British guy in Istanbul and like a Turkish beach, do you have scorpion tricks? It's like that would go viral, Don. Come on. That's a great point. It's really valid.

But, you know, I think. Sick scorpion trick at Turkish bar. Like and subscribe. Dude, perfect. Presents James Braun. Yeah. I think the chive grabs that one. In 2012, yes.

Okay. But, you know, aside from that, the Silva character is mirroring the Bond character. in so many ways. And it's just, and it is both like a, there but for the grace of God, go I, but also just kind of gives you an entirely different perspective on who these guys are and what their lives are like. And, you know, to what ends are they doing whatever they're doing? Because ultimately, you know, Silva has some mommy issues, but it's just like a lone wolf operating to his ends. And you could say the same thing about James Bond or any of those operatives. Sure.

Let's talk a little bit about Do we want to talk a little bit about the tube chase? Do we need to break down any of these scenes, the tube chase and the church scene? Amanda's been saying something to me recently on a couple of shows we've done, which is like, I don't totally understand action. I explain like good action movie making to me.

And I've been thinking about it and I don't really have good answers. I think that most of the James Bond movies are not the version of action that I like. And even Sam Mendi's movies, and I think that there's like a whole team of people that work on Bond movies and design these sequences

And they have to, they don't necessarily have to keep topping themselves, but they have to keep reaching the same heights. They do, they are sort of, at this point, I think they do have Mission Impossibleitis, where they're like, shit, we have to, like, if he's going to hang on to a bottom of a helicopter in this one, what are we going to do next? And I felt like that started with Brosnan. I feel like the Brosnan movies were the first time where I was like,

oh, they're trying to, like, also turn him into an Olympic athlete in some way. And I think that the action sequence in this movie are good, but mostly because of how they look, not because of the sense that they make. I think it's a really good shootout at the end. I think if you look at the choreography of the way that the shootout is cut, it's pretty coherent.

Sometimes sequences like that in dark places at night, a lot of gunfire. The mechanics of it don't make any sense. It's really hard to make people understand what's happening in a sequence. But I don't know that it's like, to me the gold standard is the Mission Impossible movies

on this stuff right now where they are simultaneously mega wow, hold your breath. Tom Cruise jumps out of a plane stuff, but also hand-to-hand combat is as good as in any movie that you can find.

So they're not like the very best, but they're good enough that you are constantly engaged. They're usually better when they're chases as opposed to fights. The one exception is one of the scenes that you mentioned, which is the shadow fight in the tower. Yes. Which is unbelievable. Which is some of the most beautiful fight sequence shooting I've ever seen. I mean. With the jellyfish projections in the background and the shadow.

Yeah, no, it's amazing. That stuff is, that's wide. That should be in the National Gallery. That's so good. Tell me about why you think you like these action sequences more than the standard. I think I used the word accessible already, but they're really legible to me. At some point, I realized that action sequences are just a film language like anything else. And Chris, you will appreciate this.

I think Sean and I talked about Spider-Verse and animated movies at grain length. And my breakthrough is just like, I don't know how to watch these. Like they just don't scan to me. I don't speak the language. And I think it's a similar-ish thing for, some action movies, like that I just, this sounds really simple, but my brain doesn't always know where to look or it kind of wanders, but there is something that is grounded about most of the bond things.

Right. Like, I understand they're, they're on a train and they're punching each other. And they're running and trying to avoid a subway train. There is something that I don't really have to worry about the camera angles. they're pretty they make sense. It's pursuit rather than like either Pacific Rim, what the fuck is going on right now?

And also it emerges out of a reality. Like they are running through rush hour London. Like Ben Wischaw says like he's at the temple stop with all of London. You know, like of course Ben Wichhaw easily finds Silva like on his camera. Like there's all sorts of like movie magic crap. But there's something about it like you're saying. It's like it feels like you could see a guy run past you on it. the street and that is basically the senior scene.

You know, it's not like, oh, like, these are two robots fighting, like, across an ocean. Right. I think there's also just, I understand the narrative purpose and the stakes of them. At some point, especially in action movies that are action movies, it's just an excuse for people to fight. You know, it's funny you say that because I don't find that that's always true for Bond movies. Like, in rewatching Casino Royale, there's that whole big opening sequence in Uganda. And I have no idea what anybody is trying to do.

Like, I don't know who's the good guy who's the bad guy. I don't know what they're in pursuit of. like sometimes these movies explain it and sometimes they don't. This one does because it's very elegantly done. And there's a lot of time and effort and thought put behind why. But a lot of James Bond movies, I find because it's hitting the rhythm of set piece, pursuit, mystery, seduction, set piece, pursuit, mystery, seduction. Like, they have this kind of, I don't know, this train set that they have to follow. And this is the rare one where all that stuff actually is there, but it makes sense.

and it's clear to me like what everyone's motivation is and maybe that's ultimately the problem. Like with Cruz jumping out of a plane, I'm like, well, he's got to get out of that plane. When somebody's being chased, I'm like, what does that person have and why? And why is this important? And who is that?

And will they be back in the movie? Are they going to die right now? A lot of times the person that is being chased is like, it's shot by Bond. That's one of the cool things too about the Denel Craig ones. Sometimes he'll just kill someone. Yes. And Emma's like, wait, you weren't supposed to kill that person.

You know? Too bad. Yeah. Which is different. There's also a lot of surprises in this movie specifically. I mean, even when they go to Scotland, you're like, where the fuck is he taking her? You know what I mean? I know the movie's called Skyfall.

There's probably like shots of Scotland in the trailer or whatever. But I remember them getting out of London and him basically being like, we've been behind too long. Like, now we have to go on the attack. I'm going to take him where we can be strong. And you're just kind of like, well, where's that? Are you going to go to Jamaica? Are you going to go to end? It's like, no, he's driving up to A-9.

Like, this is nuts. All right. So that's the, what do we say is the best most rewatchable scene? rats has to be the sylvanter okay what's age the best i have a couple of nominations but i think there's a bunch of difference i number one judy dench literally has aged the best yeah um what it performs from her in this movie 77 years old yes she gave it uh and winds up just being that best of british acting where it's like just just just just does just enough there's just enough to give it like a little bit of extra meaning and depth and and emotion but never is like i'm taking

this scene over and has a stature and a gravitas so that if she's standing over six coffins, they're like, this is fucking important. Oh, that's, that shot. That's a really, that shot's in the trailer. And I remember seeing and this being like, oh, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. So Judy Dench literally Adele's song.

Mm-hmm. All time jam. Mm-hmm. I have the locations because this is a very good and sensible group of, sometimes bond locations are, it's like, inside a volcano. downtown Tokyo and California You know

There's like movies where you're just like How the fuck did you even get there? This is like sure Istanbul, London It's very London centric I feel like a lot of these movies Are not as London centric No this is very like board of tourism

Yeah Yeah Well it's also I mean that's the major theme of the movie Yes Also I guess one thing we didn't say about it That feels important to that in particular Is this was the 50th anniversary Of the Bond movies

And there was this all of this kind of hubbub that the Broccoli family put around that announcement. So I wonder if that was part of the thinking and designing the movie was like, let's remind people that this is about a British spy who's from Scotland. Yes. That's really the origin of this. And so the movie begins here and ends here. And the scene where one of my favorite dench moments is when he's on the run with her

and she's just like, they'd come to the garage. And she's like, if you expect me to, I'm not going to spend the night here. And he's just like, no. And he opens it up and they asked him Martin's. Yeah. And she's like, oh, so this isn't ostentatious at all. What else is age the best? Waning Empire.

Still waning. Still waning. Related. British government, like, not knowing what to do. And just a bunch of ministers being like, I'd like to talk some more to you. Brexit. Yeah. Movies about middle-aged men being washed up and confronting their life,

just very on trend for 2019. You can relate. Yeah. The cast, as I just did. just think, not a wrong person. No, there's not a single, like, error made in this movie.

Yeah. And the deacons of it all. Yeah. It has a, it looks, if this movie came out today, I'd be like, this is cutting-edge shit.

Yeah. This is like, this is gorgeous. It has not, it doesn't look dated at all. I think the idea of casting a prestige person to make a franchise movie is, aging quite well.

There were not a lot of examples of this before this happened. And I think in a lot of ways, and Mendez was at a weird point. He had just made, A Way We Go, which was his least successful movie starring John Krasinski and Maya Rudolph. And after coming off of American Beauty, massive hit, best picture winner, The Road to Perdition, probably one of the most underrated movies of the 21st century. You know, he's on this like steady pace jarhead, revolutionary road.

He's got this head of steam as like kind of prestige filmmaker. Not every movie works, but most of them do. And then away we go comes out. Bricks. It's just the failure. It doesn't really work for anybody involved. And he kind of retreats to theater a little bit. Yeah.

There's like that whole New York article about him, right? Yeah. I mean, it's after this, but it's definitely, it's about, it's written by John Lauer. New Yorkerner went ham on this movie because there's also a Jez Butterworth profile, which doesn't do a lot of Bond, but mentions casually that he's working on Specter while it's like while Jerusalem is kind of like in its full heyday there. Yeah, because I think that this movie lived up to something that people wanted James Bond to be in a way. Because the character emanates class, but the movies kind of don't. The movies are kind of schlocky, like they're kind of B-movie.

Well, they're a volume play. That's the thing. It's like they had to re-engineer this movie to be an event. I mean, I think that the Bond movies in totality are seemed as like a really big deal. But if you watch any one of them on their own, like in some of those movies, like the big action sequence is James Bond punches a guy and then he eats a cyanide pill. And he's like, oh, I couldn't question him. And then that's it. That's it.

But yeah, I just think bringing somebody like Mendez in, it leads to things like Ryan Coogler does Creed and Black Panther instead of trying to pursue a sort of haughty prestige project. And that's pretty significant to where movies are. Yeah, it's worth noting that a bunch of other directors have dabbled or maybe just the thought they were going to do one. So Quentin Tarantino was always rumored to have wanted to do a Bond movie.

Danny Boyle was on the most recent Bond movie and left. I think there's been some other, like Nolan has, I think they would just basically like break the bank for Nolan, but the producers of the Bond movies are pretty hands on. The other thing too is that, well, there's a couple things there. One, Christopher Nolan doesn't make movies for not Warner Brothers, so this isn't a Warner Brothers movie. But more specifically, Mendie's just very openly lifted a lot of the Dark Knight aesthetic for these movies.

I mean, the two movies that he made, and I think Christopher Nolan's Dark Night movies are also a commentary on James Bond if you look at them from one direction. but that elevated darkness that was important to those movies, Mendez is manipulating and playing with. And that idea of like an orphan who has to avenge sins is like, that's not a mistake that those characters have so much in common. What else is age the best? The sweater that Ben Wischaw wears in the climactic scene,

I believe it's Drew Fendon. Can we talk briefly about some of your favorite outfits in this movie? Yeah. I mean, the Dan O' Craig suits are obviously the fit is, is, I mean like the literal fit, not in like the slang, you know. I only recently learned that the slang fit is like short for outfit, just FYI. That's where I am in my life. Talking about aging empire.

Anyway, like the literal way the suits are cut is tremendous and allows for movement while also just, I mean, he looks so handsome. I really think Wishaw is bringing a lot to every scene, but that, that sweater. at the end. His little parka that he wears in the museum. Oh, yeah. That's very cute. You know, Money Penny is like business casual. It's nice for her.

And who am I forgetting? I mean, you have to love the barber jackets and all this stuff. Oh, my gosh. This Scotland, the final skyfall look that James Bond is wearing and the boots. You're forgetting an important one, which is that there is maybe only one person in the history of humanity who could ever wear that track suit that he wears when he's training. Oh, yes. Oh, it's so good. Where it's like, that is actually like probably made out of like the kind of wool that most suits are made out of or something.

Yeah. And it is it is what like guys at Oxford used to wear in 1952 when they would take in the air or do chariots of fire. And he's just in 2012 rocking that with like low top Adidas with no performance boosters or does no like air technology. He's just like this is how rod labor trained and it's how I will train. I couldn't agree with this more. You're probably aware that fashion sweatpants are making, have made a comeback. But they make you look like you're... They look terrible.

Everyone needs to watch this movie. Your sweatpants should fit the way that Daniel Craig's sweatpants fit in the MI6 bumper. You shouldn't look like you work in the Ad Astra Moonbase. Yes. Agree. One other thing that's aged well is this is Albert Finney's last performance in a movie. You don't want to talk about track suits? I just don't, that's not really my look.

Do you like the dreas sweater? I actually think that you could pull that. That's nice. Thank you. I don't quite have the lank that Wishaw has. You know, you really need a lot of lank to make so. You have a fair amount of length, to be quite honest. We don't need to make this about it. Maybe not enough, though, you know?

We don't live in the climate for it. We'll never know. He's five pipe cleaners strung together, you know? That's really... But, yeah, Alberfini is just an amazing actor. And there's, like, perfect kind of a role for a guy at his age and with his career to do. Because he is like a father figure to this vision of old Scotland and old England. and Shakespearean movie acting

and all these things that he's well known for. Yeah. Okay. Those are some good ways. What saves the best? What do you think is the winner there? Adele? God, I think the song.

That song is fire. That's got the highest approval rating. So let's go with Adele's song wins the way. Oscar winner. What stage is the worst? A couple of nominees. You mentioned this earlier. I don't mind the hacking as a plot point.

The hacking's pretty stupid in this movie. I also have this down. Both, I think we had. gotten further along in HTML. So I don't necessarily think it would have been, the animation that Silva would be sending around would not be as kind of like, like, Pac-Man ghost comes to eat your,

eats your empire. I actually kind of liked the stylized part of that. And also, God bless her, 77 years old. Maybe M shouldn't be the head of the security services if she's like, I got this message and it says, click me. So I clicked it. I mean, I guess that's what undid Hillary Clinton or whatever. Joe Biden, Donald Trump,

Bernie Sanders. We got a lot of 70 somethings in our national politics. We already know that her laptop is a point of real contention. Sure. When she's sitting in her lovely apartment and is like sitting there with her laptop looking at her James Bond file and gets hacked. She's like, I am being hacked. And it says, click here for more information about how you're getting fucked up.

And she clicks it. I mean, like, do better, Judy Dench. Let me say, at least she's 77. She has an excuse. No, she doesn't. Wish off. No, but wish. Wish I had the same thing.

And then Wishaw gets owned later. Oh, no, let me unplug the computer because I've been hacked. And he's like, no one can hack me because I invented hacking. Right. And then they just like, oh, no, I opened the jail. And literally plug the machine into their mainframe. Yeah. The problem with making anything having to do with your computer a part of your story is it's just inherently uncinematic.

Yes. There's just nothing interesting about watching somebody watch a screen. And that's not what you want from James Bond. You know, you want it to be bigger than that, more elevated than that. But it's also funny when, like, there's a moment where Daniel, James Bond, whose bloodstream is probably 75% gin, or vodka rather, is like looking at the screen of like, you know, like opaque code. It's like stop. Yeah, it's like, what do you?

That part is weird. Yeah, it's like, so Ben Wishaw doesn't understand this. Subway station. And he's like, oh, yeah, that's an unused subway station. I know where to go now. And that, no, no. And then they enter the code and then it just becomes a bunch of red lines. and he's like, it's a map of London.

And I'm just like, is it? But I will say in terms of... That hasn't aged well. And also, like, Ben Wischaw has to just stand in the middle of that HQ, like, explaining how he's, like, laying trails in the hackies that the Hacking is doing. And he's trying so hard. He's a tremendous actor, but, you know, the script isn't there. I agree with that.

In terms of making the hacking cinematic, I think it's a very beautiful headquarters and screen situation. And I also, just to go back briefly to the first Silva scene, I guess those are servers that are like along the wall. Yes. Like that is the most like, that's like sculpture. Also not sure they have there. Yeah. Those are not functional at all. That's not how the internet works.

I'm not sure they get a really good signal out there on the abandoned Macau Islands. Yeah. But they're trying. They're making art out of hacking. He's got like 3G out there. He's like, hold on. I got to, it's going to take a few minutes to download your files. Anyway, you want to talk about boning some more?

Gotta go back into airplane mode and then pop out. I forgot this about the rats too. You know, like, while I'm waiting for this to download, we named one rat. No, it's like, the other thing that I have did not age the worst, and I'm not here to cancel James Bond. Yeah. But I was just thought we could talk a little bit about Severine. Yeah, I have that down as well. Severine, classic Bond girl.

Yeah. She lives as she dies quickly and naked. But her being like I'm a Macau sex worker. Right. And then. And then him being like, cool. My response is to sneak up on you in the shower and then quickly discard you when we get to this villain's island. It is not a good look.

Yeah. It's not what you want. It's not good. It really jumped out in the middle. I watched it when he's like, I'm going to sneak attack you in the shower after you told me that you're a survivor of a sex ring is pretty wild. I also wrote this down. I think we all agree. It feels like two different writers.

One was like there's this whole thing we could do with like Macau sex trade. and then they were like, cool, and he was like, okay, great, I'm going to go work on Prometheus, and then somebody else came in, it was like, and then Bond Boneser. Yeah, to me, it's not about Bonn being a cat or whatever. Like, that's great. That's an essential part of the character. It doesn't really matter. It's more like because the movie is so purposeful about raising the stakes on everything

and putting intentionality and emotion behind it, making her character a sex slave is part of that. Well, he says also, I can help you. Yeah. He says, I can help you. And he immediately is like, but first take me to, uh, international villain, Ralo Silva's Island, where you probably will not get out of there. And then he shoots her in the head. I mean, it's really, it's rough.

I mean, I actually was, I was looking at Bernice Marlowe's filmography after watching the movie again. And she hasn't really done a lot. But she's pretty good. That sequence in the bar when they're talking is actually really quite good. And I think she's a good actress. I was surprised that she didn't have like a bigger career after this. Yeah. The shower scene is the really tough part of it.

Even I think, Sean, the point that it's about trauma, this movie more generally is, like, perceptive. And the sex trade part of it fits in. There's just no justifying, you know, five minutes later. And they already have a sex scene in the movie. Like, he has a great time in Turkey before the score. He could also just be sleeping with Money, Penny, if you wanted to. I mean, like, they get pretty intimate. So I understand, like, it's just, like, the sexual tension of their relationship is what's the thing there.

But I think it even would have been fine if he just, like, knocked on her door and she opened the door and they started kissing. and you were like, okay, they're going to have sex now, but they're like sneaking up on her thing? I'm like, did it have to be this way? It's just really weird. Did anything else age the worst for you guys? That's it. I had two things on my list.

Imperialism? That's good. I mean, that was, you know, they're critiquing it. I'm not wild about Naomi Harris's Money Penny. I just don't think she, I don't think they have like a ton of chemistry. She's not like a bad money. Well, they also like, I think that there's like this idea in the beginning of the movie that it's like Money Penny is.

action hero. And even maybe, like, in the back of their minds, I know that they've been talked about a little bit about a money penny spin-off. Yeah. And then it's sort of like her eventual arrival at administrative work is like the fulfillment of her becoming the older money penny character. But it's supposed to be cool. But you're also like, okay. It's just so tonally weird. She's a little jaunty.

She's doing different line readings than everybody else. That's almost like she's doing like girl power money penny. I was going to save her for whatever the overacting category is called. now. I forget we change it every three months, but no one's really overacting. What? We do. But no one's really overacting in this movie. It's a pretty sedate movie and then

she's just kind of like, I've got some binter. It's like, okay, this isn't a 40 screwball comedy. It's like everyone's really depressed. That's what I was feeling too. It just feels like she's in a different movie. So Severin what's age the worst? Yes. That plot line is a little tough, yeah. Casting what ifs. Really only one to speak of, but it's a pretty big one.

They were in discussions with Sean Conner. where to play Kincaid. And they eventually decided that the stunt casting would take people out of the movie. And I think that is the right decision. I agree. So shout it to you, Sam Mendi's and Barbara Broccoli. There's another one.

I think Kevin Spacey was originally approached to play Mallory. Really? Yeah. Yikes. Because Sam Mendi's obviously directed him in American Beauty. I did not know that. And that would have been a different movie.

And Mallory is now gone on to have, like obviously he's M, you know, so. I love having Ray finds in there. He is fucking. good. He's just... Tremendous. But he is the thing that Judy Dench is not. This is a sedate movie, and I think everybody is operating at a fairly mild

level. But Ray Fines loves to chew. He loves to chew on the scenery. And he's chewing on the scenery in every scene. He's not afraid to be like, this big hunk of script that I can bite into. No, he's just like, well, buggered. Yeah, exactly. But that's good. I don't... Do you think the Connery thing

would have been distracting? Yes. Yes. I also haven't seen Sean Connery in 15 years, so I don't know, like, how he's doing it. I don't think anybody wants to see like old fading Sean Conry just for five seconds. Still alive. The man is still alive. Yes. It's just, it's also.

He goes to Wimbledon, right? I don't know if I've seen him there in a little while. I don't think he's been in public for a few years. Okay. But it's just kind of, and I mean this in the kindest way possible, but having Sean Connery in there is sort of like the Marvel into interconnecting universe of it all. Yeah. And James Bond movies are not that for better and for worse. I have a much, I have a lot of questions to ask you about this.

Yes. somebody. But when we get to internet research, I have a lot of questions to ask about the universe. So, a man mentioned it's not a casting what if, but it is a behind the scenes. What If is released the Peter Morgan cut. Release the Peter Morgan cut. Listen, as a disciple of Peter Morgan, there's a lot of Peter Morgan in this movie. Even I'm like with all respect to everyone who I know definitely put a lot of work into this, but in the DNA and in the ideas, it just is up a piece.

It's a cool situation though where you get, it does sound like just reading the making of and the read. I mean, everybody sort of sings from the same hymn book, but people seem to be like, it really is collaborative, and it really is trying to make the best Bond movie, and it's a bunch of people coming. It's not like I wrote my version of Bond and they fucked it up.

You know, it's like people trying different things. Let's do the Dion Waiters Award for Over-Air, for doing the most of the least. It's the He-check Award. I mean, so basically does Bardem qualify? And if not, I think it's fines. Right? Yeah, I mean, but you could also make a case for,

Finney and Wishaw. I would go Wishaw there. Where'd you go? I like Wishaw, too. I think he's a good reinvention for Q. Okay. And Q is historically older than Bond, right? So I think the idea of making him younger was kind of a novel thing.

And he's also like, everybody in this movie is basically overqualified for the movie. Hell yeah. And Wishaw is definitely among them. And this is right when he's starring on that show The Hour, that BBC show, which is a tremendous show. Great show. Release season three of the hour. Did they shoot and not put it out? No, but I mean, make it.

Release the Snyder cut of season three of the hour. How about that? Okay, Dion Waiters Award goes to Ben with Shaw. Congratulations, Ben. Apex Mountain. Is it Daniel Craig's Apex Mountain? I think it is. Opens the Olympics,

stars in a $1 billion James Bond movie that is considered the best James Bond movie ever. Has he done enough with it? Amanda and I have seen a movie called Knives Out. He's pretty great Knives Out. It's not quite the same level of power. Yeah, but objectively, objectively, it's not the same amount.

of power. It's just him using his power to just do Southern accents in every movie he can for the next decade, which respect to my man, married Rachel Vison, was just like, now I only speak in a Virginia accent. Right. Okay. Go with it. But in terms of actually having power, I think it has to be Skyfall. Yeah. Daniel Craig Apex Mountain, Sam Mendez, I would probably say this was an earlier point for Mendez, like coming out of American Beauty doing Jarhead. I think he was like kind of a bigger deal then. I think it's right after American Beauty. He does road to perdition. And American Beauty made like $400 million. Yes. That's pretty crazy to think about and won all the Oscars. I don't particularly remember seven years ago Javier Bardem, it being like now it's

Javier Bardem's time. Any more so than it was in 2007 when he did No Country for Old Men. So it's hard for me to say this is like his apex amount. I almost feel like this was like him being like, I can still do this if I want to. Yeah. I think you have to say objectively that after he won's the ask her for no country. That's his Apex Mountain. I definitely agree with that. I'm just looking at what he did. Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting run. He goes No Country for Old Men, Vicky Christina Barcelona.

Very good Woody Allen movie. We were not allowed to talk about anymore. You're allowed to talk about it. It's good. Inritu's beautiful, which was kind of roasted upon release. He was in Eat, Pray, Love. Yeah. You guys remember that? He's the guy at the end, right? Yeah, Felipe.

And then Skyfall. And then to the wonder. the counselor, which is the greatest performance in the history of movies. I mean, actually, that's his apex mountain. That is the apex mountain of all apex mountains. That's pretty much it for him. I really enjoyed him in Mother. He's great in Mother. Javier Bardem, great career.

He's tremendous. Yeah. Also, married to Penelope Cruz. Shout out to him. He's just wonderful. Okay, so let me, uh, oh, actually, let's do Joey Pants first. The Joey Pants Award. I was trying to think of a British character actor to rename this after for this particular

go-round of the Joey Pants Award. Okay. For that guy who's just in everything. A lot of people here. Roy Keneer. in pretty much every good television show to come out of England last year. Should we call this like the Denholm-Elli Award?

Yeah, sure. That's good. The Denholm-Elliard Award. Helen McCrory, who goes on to play Polly Shelby in Peeke Blanders, plays the minister who's questioning Judy Dench. Nicholas Woodison, who is doing word association with Bond in the psychological evaluation, is in everything. I guess Albert Finney, sort of, because he's behind the beard.

You're like, who's that guy? Any other that guys? Ola Rapas? Numi Rapaas's ex-husband who plays Patrice, he was murdered. That's him? Yeah. Numi.

Really? Yeah. He gets tossed off a building. He's like a very well-known actor in Sweden. Is he? Yeah. Okay. Just dropping some Swedish film takes.

What do you got, Amanda? Anybody else? No, I think we covered him. I think this has to be Helen McRory. I do too. And she doesn't even actually get a straight-up close-up, but you hear her voice and you're like, it's Polly. I think to most human beings, the pick would be Rory-Keneer.

Yes. But you guys, the Anglophile. that you guys are, you're like deeply familiar with Rory Keneer's work. I am. I mean, like I've seen like several shows that star Rory Kinear. But I think most humans would be like, oh, that guy who fucked the pig on Black Mirror that one time. I would recommend

if anybody wants to watch a really great Rory Kaneer show, they look up Southcliffe. It's a very, very excellent show. All right, let's crack my back for this one. The Linda Partridge, Don't call me lady! Award for overacting. That's who it is?

Yeah. We changed it from... This is what I'm saying. It went from Saul Rubeneck with Ruffalo to Rubeneck. And now it's... They knew Robbie! Yes. And you stabbed me in the heart. And now it's Julianne Moore in Magnolia.

Don't call me ladies! Is this Bardem? No. No. I'm giving this name of Harris. No one's over... I already said this. I already did my whole case.

I know. I know. I'm just like... No one's overacting. He is acting just right. Don't say another. I'm not. fucking word against Javier Barden.

Let's talk about who's won this award before. Okay. We named it after Mark Ruffalo. Okay. Who is in Zodiac and you can count on me in some beautiful performances. Yeah, but you're making fun of that performance and that particular scene in naming the award after him. Nobody has a $1,000 batting average. But it's not a positive award.

And this Javier Bardem performance is the performance of the decade. How about we give it to the boat captain who sticks his head and is like, we should push off. And then he goes away And then fucking James Bond sneaks in and has sex in a shower. It's Bardem. Well, I don't want to sour this whole podcast.

You know, it's like, we really love him. Overacting is a skill unto itself. Okay. And because everyone is so muted in the movie in a way, he seems more lifet, more outsized,

but even still, I would say that he's doing a lot. In the moment of it, but it's not too much. It doesn't have to be. It's not. It's not like, what's what's overmeans. That's literally in the title of the award.

Well, she has a point of procedure there. Yeah. I mean, but I don't view the person who did, who overacted in the movie as like ruining the movie. Right. It just meaning the movie. He's making the movie. I agree with you.

But in the best, one of the best moments of movies of this decade is that scene about the coconuts. And you know what else he does? He goes, yeah. It's amazing. Bing, Bing. He's like, sounds like, fucking like. like a bond villain. What do you want to do? It's awesome. It's awesome. All right. I don't agree with

this, but I am outvoted as always. She treated you like a son. Are you stabbed her in the heart? Half-ass internet research. So we give that to the boat, captain. Because I want us all to be friends. Half-ass internet research. Yale professor Stephen Carter believes that there is a deeper mystery to Silva's relationship with M. namely that she is possibly his adopted mother. Raul Silva is an anagram for a rival soul. Okay. All right. And Think on Your Sins is an anagram for your son isn't in HK, Hong Kong.

So you can read about this. It's on Bloomberg. There's lots of blog posts about this. Shout out to Yale for producing such a great mind that he... Thank you to Yale. Thank you, Yale. There is basically a school of thought that, quote unquote, James Bond, air quotes, is a code name.

It's called code name theory. So you can read about this. It's basically the idea that James Bond is the name used by lots of different characters throughout time, but that each actor played a different individual. That they're not all James Bond, that they're not all existing. And that there are some feints towards continuity with different character or different actors, but that James Bond is not just one man, but of all these different people who played him.

And James Bond was like a code name. You can go for that. not. Do you go for that? No. I don't. I didn't think that you would. But I wanted to bounce it off of you. Yeah, I mean, it's plausible. And I think, I just think it's overthinking it. I think that there is like not, especially before Casino Royale, there's not that intentionality to this series, especially the movies. They are, you know, just kind of making movies to put this character in weird situations and then have him look cool and a tux. Yeah, it's tricky, right? Because I think on the one

hand, our best heroes, Superman or James Bond don't expire. They're always there for us to be heroic. That's like part of the appeal of the hero figure. But also, like you mentioned Unforgiven earlier, if you look at the Rocky franchise,

some of the best movies about those things are about the person coming in terms of the fact that they're not as powerful as they once were. They're not able to do the things they used to do. The genius of this movie is that it's both. Yeah, yeah. You know, you get to have to have. have the, there's only one James Bond and every actor that has played him is basically playing

the same person. But also that person's getting older and life is harder and they have a lot of problems. Right. There is another wrinkle to this, which is that there is a theory out there on top of code name theory, which is that James Bond in this movie does not know about code name theory. He thinks he is the only bond. And that basically that he has been brainwashed into thinking he was an orphan. I know.

And that Silva is also a James Bond. He thinks he is a James Bond. I mean, Sylva is a James Bond. Absolutely. That is like, you know, there is, why do we have to make everything so literally? And not only that, with this franchise in particular, where so many of these movies were made during a time when they would just be like, well, we brought back at the same actor who used to play this guy five movies ago, but he decided to do one more movie. But what do we do about the dead wife from the other movie? And it's like, eh, don't worry about it.

We used to just not worry about this stuff. Yeah. That was the appeal of it. Or Chris and I did. There's a reason that you're not a James Bond nerd. And that's because you're sitting there making all of the spreadsheets and you're just like, what about the glove and all the stones? What does Her Majesty's Secret Service mean to?

This doesn't align up in my room. I won't argue that I have a superior mind if that's what you're worried about. That my desire to organize and understand the long chronology of a tale makes me a more sophisticated film viewer. and just a bigger supporter of the true arts. Jesus. I'm really sorry about that. Okay. Anyway, the reason why Silva is a bond

and the reason why he has gone through the same experience is because when he arrives at Skyfall, he apparently knows the place. Like, if you watch it from that... Yeah, because he's a fucking spy, and he did some recon, you know? Everyone's trained to know every... None of this is real.

And I think... None of it's real. And so they're all geniuses. who, you know, have the plans of every single place they're going to go in their head ahead of time, which, of course, that isn't true. And also, like, James Bond doesn't survive the fall at the beginning of this movie or any of the other... How else he could know it looks like? Yeah.

Google Maps. Right. Yeah. That's a great point. Did they have that in 2012? I bet on the Macau Island when he's, like, slowly downloading files. Yeah. He could get some sat nav going.

I think the thing, it's great that people want to invest in movies, however they want to invest in movies. And I don't take that away. But what's a bummer about all of that is that it, like, like, Like, it's taking things that are in the movie and big themes and just can't accept them as like large archetypal like emotions or ideas and has to kind of game them out. Let me ask you this. Would you like some continuity in these movies? Would you like to feel like the three or four movies you watch after Skyfall? I mean, they'll probably replace Bond.

We can get to that. But would you like to feel like there is one story being told over several movies? And then maybe they reset it when they get a different actor. No, because if that's the case, then Skyfall is the last Bond movie. Like, this is the logical end to the franchise. And I don't think they'll make another movie as good as this one. With Craig at least. With Craig at least, because it is, there's such finality to it.

And it is dealing with, like, the largest themes. You can't really go bigger than that. It's like the emotional or thematic version of the Mission Impossible. Now we've got to put the helicopter on the cliff on the something. Well, I would slightly disagree with that. I think that you're right that in terms of the classical approach and a lot of the Shakespearean stuff that we're talking about and not necessarily selling out some of the ideals and coolness of the franchise. I think that's true. I think this is like as close as they're going to get to prestige masterpiece.

On the other hand, this is like a franchise that very rarely takes risks and they have a real formulaic approach to their movies. Now, this movie is thematically deep, but structurally is still pretty similar. And I wonder if someone like Carrie Fukenaga who's directing the next movie, who is a formally dynamic, I would say, is going to try to break some things apart, is going to try to do something new. Now the Brockley family, as you mentioned, Chris, very controlling. Yes. This is very important to them.

This is what they do. Well, it's an interesting tension between, like, director and producer. The producer's like, this is my family's heirloom. So, like, if you're like Danny Boyle and you want to do a Me Too Bond or whatever it is that you want to do, that doesn't work for us if we want to keep making bonds movies in 10 years. Yeah. We want sustainability. So I just wanted to bounce that theory off if you wanted to see what you thought of, like the idea of like a unifying theory of bond or that there's like something like there's some conspiracy theory within this movie.

I just think it's too hard with one person to do the unifying theory and then keep making movies and taking chances and trying new things. And I don't think that at least Daniel Craig will have another movie as good as Skyfall. But I would like for them to keep making Bond movies. Dream big. I'm okay actually for them to just like keep making, trying to make good movies. I cannot wait for the, for Bond 25. Right. Like, sign me up.

I look forward to Bond movies. So do whatever you got to do to make it work. Some more half-ass internet research. There were a couple other titles considered for this movie Silver Bullet. A killing moon, which I enjoyed, although I'm not really sure if there's that many moons in this movie. And once upon a spy were alternative titles. Yeah. See the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood thing is just really, it's all coming together.

The interior of the Golden Dragon Casino in Macau, where Bonn meets Severin, was actually Pinewood Studios. Shout out to English ingenuity. But they did visit, production visited China, Turkey, and local cows all over England. They shot everywhere in London, and they went to Scotland, Glencoe, which is where Skyfall is. Silvas Island, as I mentioned before, was shot off of Macau, but is based on Hashima, which is off the coast of Nagasaki. It was like an abandoned mining town. It's a real place. Yeah.

So you can go there. 3G? What's that? They have 3G there? They have dial-up. Okay. They have Prodigy. You put the disc in.

Oh, cool. Altavista. I'm going to throw a curveball at you guys, but if there's two people in the world I trust to handle it, it's you too. Okay. For recasting couch, rather than casting any of the roles in this movie, I would like to talk about who should play James Bond next. Oh, wow. So there's two versions of this conversation. Mm-hmm.

There is the... angst-ridden, why didn't they make Idris Elba bond, where we're kind of talking about exploding what the identity of James Bond is. Should it be a woman? Should it be a person of color? That's one way to approach this. It's actually been like a pretty driving

and now ultimately kind of cliche conversation point. I think Idris Elba is like way older now than any bond who had been previously cast at that point. So that I think that that part of the conversation is over. That wouldn't stop someone like Daniel Kalulia being a potential bond as an interesting talking point, he kind of fits some of the profile. As far as, I mean,

do you want to just talk about white male Brits who would do well? That's really your lane. Yeah, thank you. Wow. That's true. There isn't really a strong class of them. Like, for example, Richard Madden,

who was in the Bodyguard. And then Bodyguard and everyone was like, okay, now he's going to be the next James Bond. He's also Scottish, I believe, so that works out. I don't think that James Madden is right for Richard Mennon. I'm sorry, Richard Matton. What's James Motton? I think you're just saying James Bond and Richard Madden together.

Okay, thank you. Steve Minton is the shoe company. Anyway, Richard Madden is not my particular pick for James Bond because I think he's a little, he's a little wooden, as evidenced by Chris just screaming Vicky a lot. Oh, but wooden without maybe some of the layers of pain that Daniel Craig brings underneath. That's the, and that's the,

the difficulty of this is following up with a person who is as handsome and appealing and different enough from the archetype but also a good actor. You need all those things. Need to be sexy.

Need to be cool. You need to look good with a gun. And the other thing that's tough is that all of the 30-something British actors who are working are already in Marvel or other franchise movies. So I don't know who there is.

I mean, like, I would like Tom Hardy to play James Bond. I, she won't take the fucking mask off. Even when he's in peeky blinders and he's got a giant beard. Like he just won't be the kind of movie star version of himself, which he essentially is an inception. He never did that.

I also think if you were going to go way out of the box, Kato, who is a Grime emcee who's in this show Top Boy is fucking awesome. And I weirdly feel like he could just be like the kind of bond you've never seen before. But, you know, I don't know what the Brockways are going to do. I mean, going back to the... Just no coverbatch. That's all I'm saying. No, cover batch.

But going back to the outside of the box suggestions, I don't know. Should a Woman Be Bond thing? I don't need to put on my feminism hat right now. And I just saw Charlie's Angels, which is such a depressing example of what happens when they try to market these things to women. And suddenly you have the world's worst soundtrack and everything is, like, written by the skim and is really dumped down. And I don't want that for James Bond at all. But Emily Blunt. That's the one.

I mean, no, I'm just an Emily Blount fan. Obviously, she's great in action movies. She has the charisma. She is British. I'm curious. She seems like she is engaged with the idea of English mythology already with Mary Poppins. She's also got edge. Yeah.

You know, like in Edge of Tomorrow, pardon the pun, she's the biggest badass and you buy it. She's in Sicario, yeah. Yeah. Like, she has credibility in that space. And if they wanted to make that choice and cast a woman, which I don't think they're going to do because I think James Bond is, is inherently a very conservative property.

Yes. But if they did, she would be tremendous. Do you guys have any recast and catch things from the actual Skyfall that you wanted to mention? I wish they would have brought Rubenek in as M. I think that would have been the best way to, you know, maybe... Were you bummed out there was no Felix lighter in this movie? Sometimes they really, like, they shoehorned Felix in,

and you're just like, there's no reason for it. That's Jeffrey Wright's character, right? I don't really get that character, if I'm being honest. Yeah. He's like kind of a friend... He's often the guy who picks Bond, up at the airport when he comes to America. Yeah.

Yeah, but this movie doesn't care about America at all, which is kind of what's refreshing about it. Good point. Leave us on the side of the road. Yeah, no special relationship here. Picking Nits, we talked a lot about the hacking. Mm-hmm. I just want to mention that early in this film,

Bond has sex with a woman in Turkey. Yeah. By the beach. Yeah. And then the next shot is he is wearing khakis in bed. And I think that's weird. I think that's weird to be, I guess, I guess that's like your go bag

Like in case shit goes wrong Yeah you have your khakis on already But I just don't know you have like wild sex on a beach in turkey And then you're like I'm gonna get a hyniquin and put on some khakis So you what you would have preferred that shot And then get back in bed So your preference for that shot is bond with his cock out Post-coitaly indulging in a beverage

Wouldn't that be more realistic? Well this is the traumatic bond So it would have been more traumatic. Why is he wearing pants? Who has ever put on khakis after sex and gotten back in bed? They're not in bed. The bed is just kind of like lounging. She is also dressed.

She's not? She is at least wearing a wrap. She is wearing, it's like a pink, like kind of like cover up robe situation. No, let's make this personal. Okay. So you. Chris Ryan has sex. A human man has sex.

You started this. I was ready for it. Okay. I'm not running from this. fight? This is important. After sex, you get up, you... I don't know. I make myself a giant turkey sandwich and I go to the mirror

and I say you're the best! What does everybody do? They want to have a cigarette. You can't smoke anymore. Maybe you vape, but you're not supposed to do that. Do you just... Do you put on khakis? What do you people do? You lie in a post-coital bliss. And maybe you go to the, you get of water and you're just like, God, and you put on your boxers, maybe. Are you just like flopping around, just showing the remnants of it all?

I understand. Maybe he's not wearing boxers. Let me just throw that out there. Maybe he's just khakis nothing else. He strikes me as a no underwear. Yeah. So no underwear khakis. That's weird.

That's weird. That's weird. And it's not practical if he feels like he's going to have to be on the run. No underwear khakis. I've done it. In what possible context? Next time it happens, I'll let you know. Don't. Do me a favor. Don't. Keep it. Okay. Other nitpicks.

We got our breakout. Other nitpics, I guess, would be, like I mentioned before, I just don't think that if you're pretending to be dead, you entertain an entire bar by doing scorpion tricks. Okay. I think it's a good call. I think you kind of keep a low profile. Yeah, but, I mean, that's also, he can't keep a low profile. He is still James Bond, and he feels, he both, quote, feels a sense of duty,

but also wants to be special and wants to be loved by Mommy as well. And so that is showing. Like, even as he's, quote, enjoying vacation, he has to be doing daring things and getting attention for them. Other nitpicking nits, I would just be really fucking mad if they sold my apartment. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be like, wait, what?

And I was like, how about you take care of this yourself then? I got to agree with my shit. That was foul. Who got the money for that? Her Majesty. Yeah. Any other picking nits? Yeah, I have a couple.

It takes three to four months for hackers to decode one list of agents. I think at the timeline situation. That's very stupid. Yeah, three to four months. This is a real Mission Impossible did a better thing to me. And it's also the list of NATO agents being on one hard drive, even in 2012. Yeah. We're doing better than that.

The hackers using YouTube. They're literally posting the reveals on YouTube. Yeah. Maybe they would do that. I buy it. that's what I'd do if I was an international hacker driven mad by a cyanide capsule

on my head Yeah You just upload vlogs My vlogs would be sick It's Shawty Fettice Coming to you live from Macau Like and subscribe Here's my hacker vlog

Guys, what's up with them? Right? That's right Okay, I got a few more Just you naked with khakis on I was like now all I can think about it So he's just wearing khakis It's really unfortunate

Okay moving on The scene when they're Bond and M are on their way to skyfall, and they're getting support from Q and... And Gareth. And Gareth. And Tanner. And then Mallory walks in. But so Q's doing like the top secret. We're laying a breadcrumb trail.

It's unofficial. No one can know. Like in the middle of headquarters on the giant screen. On the computer that just got hacked. With the lights on. Yes. On the computer that just let everyone out of jail. It's not in like the.

most top secret. I agree. Okay. And then this is about, um, at the skyfall scene when Daniel Craig, when James Bond, uh, goes underwater and is fighting the guy under the water. Can you strangle a guy with your knee? I think just like physically. Me? Can I do that? No, but just think about it. It depends on the cat. From the basic. Can you get your knee around someone's neck? Yes. I think so. Really? Based on what little UFC I have watched. Okay. All right. I do believe so. I don't know. I just kind of, if you look at Daniel Craig's build, he's not the tallest guy.

I wouldn't say he has like long legs. So then from just like kind of a lever situation, I don't know. Can you get it around? He has a lot of compacted power. Yes, but can you get the neck into the knee? It's also, he dies doing that because he has hypothermia and his heart stops. That's fine. That's a great point. Can I pick a knit with just James Bond? Why are you looking right at me when you say that?

Just for fun? Or do you think this is something that I believe in? I'm still getting over all the things you said about what you do after sucks. So James Bond is an international secretive operative. Who tells everybody his name. Who is always saying his name and who's always dressed impeccably and is incredibly handsome and sleeping with strangers. all the time. And we've never considered a situation in which someone just walks up to him and just

shoots him in the fucking face. He's just like, we got to get rid of this Bond guy. No, it's always guys who are like, how about we have the three of us try to beat him up at the same time. Yeah, there's always like a weird knife fight in a Komoto dragon dungeon. But ideally what you want is James Bond is getting a cup of coffee and somebody just blows his face off. What's not what I want, but if you are a part of a criminal conspiracy to destroy a Am I six, you're not like I need to lure him to my island so that I'm going to explain my master plan. You want to just like just get a gun. I feel like I'm Scott Evil right now explaining Boston powers.

I think that you're... Like, just shoot him in the face. No, I mean, you're right, except that's not what Silva wants. He doesn't want it to shoot him in the face. He wants Judy Dench's attention. And he wants to feel loved and... He wants to get put in the cell. Exactly.

He's a psychopath and he wants... It's essentially the Joker plot from Dark Night. It is very similar. Yeah. But in general Your point is correct That he James Bond could really die at any time Except I think he has pretty good reflexes

For sure and a wonderful fighter But every once in a while you just catch a gun in the face And that's just not good Any other nitpicks? We'll have to circle back to your sex life Okay Best quote Orphans always make the best recruits

How old were you when they died? You know the answer to that You know the whole story Orphans always make the best recruit What is this if not betrayal? She sent you off to me knowing you're not ready, knowing you're likely to die. Mommy was very bad. Subject is not approved for field duty and immediate suspension from service advised.

What is this if not betrayal? She sent you off to me knowing you are not ready, knowing you would likely die. Mommy was very bad. I did basically like all the coconut stuff, but the line where it's like you take them and release them into the trees, but now they don't eat coconut anymore. Now they only eat rat. You have changed their nature. The two survivors.

This is what she made us. So that's fucking top shelf, baby. Yeah. That's Shakespeare. And I also just love what Kew says to Mallory. But what if the PM finds out? Well, no. Excellent thinking.

Get him isolated. Send him on the A-9. It's the direct route you can monitor his progress more accurately and confirm it with the traffic cameras. But what if the PM finds out? And then we're all bugged. Carry on. Best quotes.

You mentioned earlier, some men are coming to kill us. We're going to kill them first. Yeah. It's a great one. Yeah. I mean, Mommy was very bad. Yeah. Mommy was very bad.

Mommy was very bad. So good. Really good. Let's go with that for Best Quote then. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? I will say I would watch a Bond Netflix show. If this was just like Peter Morgan, make the Bond Netflix show, Yeah, but here's what we got to do.

No. Everything has to be filmed on location. Yes. It has to be this production level. Okay. And I have not seen a Netflix show, including The Crown, which I love, also written by Peter Morgan, is not at this level of. I, as a spy head, kind of a spy guy, would love an MI6 show where there was just this reckless, alcoholic asshole who is sort of the centerpiece of it. But it's not like I don't have enough of that in my life.

If and when that happens, what you're describing that. That's how we know movies are dead. If Bond goes to Netflix. Would you watch a Bond spin-off show of some point, of some kind? Well, when you said MI6 show, I was like, I would watch Judy Dench's M and kind of all the internal politics and then, you know, every other episode, there's some like extended set piece. Judy Ditch and Ray finds playing, like, going to Whitehall and having to go to hearings and like doing backroom deals. Yes. I mean, I just great house by Judy Densh in this movie.

They ran out of drink where you were, did they? A plus. I would spend more time there. I just... You don't care. I just... I care. I care.

It's just the grandeur is what's part of... That's what this series is. That's right. You're like a barker outside of a marquee. Come on in and see the greatest show and entertainment. The movies. That's how I get people to see. The movie is starring Thanos.

Probably unanswerable questions. I only had one, which was really was Silva. What was Silva's relationship to M? beyond, if anything, he was just an agent that she screwed over. Like, what causes the, like... I always took it pretty literally. Yeah, I mean, I don't even take it... I don't actually mean, like, did she

literally adopt him at some point? I just mean, like, I would love to know what kind of transpired. I guess it is the trauma of the cyanide pill and the... That's a prequel that could be interesting. The Silva... The Silva stuff? Yeah. Silva in Hong Kong.

Though it seems like... She gives that very quick explanation where she's like, I cut him loose. Yeah. I got six agents of... return. But she's not to be trusted. She's not to be trusted, but I think, you know, that's whatever happened, I think it's something that perfunctory. I think because what you're supposed to walk away from this is that these agents really are just agents of the state and are changeable and

no one cares about them, even though the, the M& Bond relationship at the end is like very moving. That's in defiance of how this is all arranged. One of my favorite parts about this movie is watching Judy Dench's face when she's in scenes with the Barton because it actually you can't tell sometimes whether or not she's just like this guy's actually legitimately terrifying me

because especially at the end when he puts the gun and he says do it to both of us like he puts the gun to her head and he puts his head next to her we didn't really talk about that that much like the whole ending in the movie and M's death

but the way in which that transpires like she seems legitimately disturbed by him yeah I don't really I guess acting but you know I think I mean that's definitely true Judy Dench, good actor. But you think about her career.

She's not really in that many situations where like a very tall man in a blonde wig is just doing Silva. And then there's, or even that there's a gun to her head. What's really exciting about the Skyfall sequence is like Judy Dunch is kind of doing some action scenes, at least for Judy Dench. And I would expect it was a new situation for her. Yeah. I don't know. I read that this is the most screen time by. far than M ever had in a movie.

Yes. All the James Bond movies, which is interesting, too. The idea of letting her really be the co-star of the movie. Who won the movie? Barbara Broccoli. I think it really reset Sam Mendy's career. I always said the director, because I can't get that out of my head. What's he done since then?

Spector, and now he's got 1917 coming out this winter also with Roger Deacons. You know, he was kind of nowhere in the movie business because of a way we go. I mean, he would have been able to get stuff made, but it does, it reaffirms his place as the top, top, top tier because he took a franchise property and got it more awards and more money. I mean, what's more powerful than that? And I think it does the same thing for the Bond franchise. Sure. And certainly. I guess James Bond wins then.

Yeah, rejuvenates it and makes it people really excited about it again and reminds people of the possibility inherent in it. Yeah. So that everyone is still excited about it. all of these movies, despite the fact that it's like, we're coming up on the 25th Bond movie, and people are super overloaded with franchises and spy stuff. Shared universes and all that. Right. And also, obviously, like, Brexit and everything, it's an old conservative character.

But Skyfall manages to address all of those issues at once. It's weird. It's like, I don't think it's the same movie without Bardem. You know, I don't think it works if it's Jeffrey Rush or, you know, Johnny Depp or, I guess somebody who hasn't been canceled might be nice. I'm trying to think of like Woody Allen.

No? Actor X. You're right. Louis C. The replacement actor there just wearing khakis hanging out. I just don't think that they do... You guys are out of control.

We're never doing these on a Friday afternoon again. I don't think that you get the same movie without BARTM, but I still think Mendie's won the movie. Okay. What do you think? Part M? No, I think the broccoli family, James Bond, the franchise. I like that. I'm convinced on the filmmakers.

No, I think James Bond. Like, James Bond continuing as a powerful force in our lives as moviegoers is, that feels right. You deserve a sandwich and a cold Haniken. Yeah, well, you know, I'm wearing khakis right now. So you can imagine how excited I am. For Amanda Dobbins and Sean Fennancy, I'm Chris Ryan.

This has been three logicals.