The Rewatchables - ‘Sleeping With the Enemy’ With Bill Simmons and Van Lathan

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Van Lathan set sail off the coast of Cape Cod in order to find a missing 1991 movie called ‘Sleeping With the Enemy’ starring Julia Roberts, Patrick Bergin, and Kevin Anderson. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey now, welcome to our Black Girl Songbook. This is the show where we celebrate Black women in music and the moments that make them. I'm your host, Danielle Smith. I was at By for a good long time, and now I'm collaborating with the Ringer and Spotify to bring you stories about the Black women who create the music that we live for. You will hear, in full, the songs behind those stories. New episodes of Black Girl Songbook drop every Thursday. Listen exclusively on Spotify.

This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast. Because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. I sold my car in Carvana last night Well that's cool No you don't understand

It went perfectly Real offer down to the penny They're picking it up tomorrow Nothing went wrong So what's the problem? That is the problem Nothing in my life goes to smoothie I'm waiting for the catch

Maybe there's no catch That's exactly what a catch Would want me to think Wow you need to relax I need to knock on wood Do we have wood? What is this table wood? I think it's lamated Okay yeah that's good

That's close enough Car selling without a catch So your car today on Carvana Pick up the may apply. Coming up next. Laura! She can't swim!

Laura! Sleep with the enemy is next. What's your name? Where are you from? A lot of questions. She's changed her name. Her looks. Her life. All to escape the most dangerous man she ever met. Her husband. Where is she? This is our last chance.

I can't live without you. I won't let you live without me. Julia Roberts, sleeping with the enemy. All right, Ben Lath is here. This podcast happened because we were doing the Terminator 2 podcast and talking about female empowerment movies from 1991, Terminator 2, Thelma Louise, sounds the lamps. I mentioned Sleep with the Enemy, and Ben's eyes lit up.

Yes. I knew I had finally found my partner in crime for the Sleeping with the Enemy rewatchables. Van, I call this a Mulligan movie. when somebody becomes an A-plus-plus-plus lister, they can basically put out any movie right after that and people will go see it. And if it's good, it's not good, it's mediocre.

Don't forgive it. It's a Muggan. The best example of this ever is Eddie Murphy when he did Best Defense, which I went to the theater. I paid for it. I didn't realize he was only in it for 20 minutes. He was coming out 48 hours in trading places. I didn't hold him against them, but I learned my lesson.

Leo had one with the beach. The beach was a big one. Macaulay Culkin was my girl right after Home Alone. And it's like, oh, wait, you're going to kill McCauley Culkin in this? Mulligan went on to the next one. Slice Stallone Paradise Alley after Rocky. Vin Diesel. Vind Diesel, what was that, Triple X?

No, it wasn't Triple X. Triple X was a big Vindiesel vehicle. Remember it was like Man on Fire or something like that? Oh, you're right, right. Yeah, when they come out, that movie that actually, they had like shelved it a little bit, but after Fast and The Furious goes crazy, they go ahead and put it out because it's Vin Diesel's this big deal and it kind of just wasn't anything, but he was still Vin Diesel after that. Liam Neeson hit it big with Taken right after that, unknown came out.

I'm like, all right. Yeah, I'm there. I'm there for it. Right. So Julia is the biggest actress in the world after Pretty Women. Flatliners comes out right after, but she'd already filmed that. But this was the first Julia vehicle. Right.

It's a Mulligan movie, but it's a Mulligan movie. but it also has legs. It has 30 years of legs. What is your explanation for why this bizarre movie that I don't even think she's very proud of has legs? Number one, it just dawned on me. I think the Van Dielser movie is called a man apart. I don't know why I thought man.

That's what it is. Manaparte. I think Man on Fire is the Denzel. That's the Denzel one. That's another weird one. But your question again, my bad, I'm sorry, this is jumped in my mind. Why does this movie have legs for 30 years?

Because of its unique lifetime-esque qualities. Because this is basically a lifetime movie took steroids. And inside of those steroids, they just up the talent of all of the primary actors, right? You give it Julia Roberts instead of a Meredith Baxter-Bernie or whatever it is. And you just inject it into your arms and this is what you got. And also, this was kind of a weird. era because around this same time a couple of years before you had a Sally Field vehicle who was called Not Without My Daughter. Do you remember this movie?

Yes. Sally Field was married to the guy and she, the guy was Iranian, I believe, and then he took the family back to Iran and she was trying to get away from him with her daughter to get back to America. I just remember this movie because my mom would watch that movie and my mom and my uncle watched this movie and it was almost the first time I saw them get around the television and just talk about how trash men are. And there were some movies that were going on during that time. And my mother would watch this movie all the time. Really, this is kind of like a hood classic in a way. I'm watching this movie and he screams, Laura! And I hear Kalika from the other room go, yo, are you watching sleeping with the enemy?

And I'm like, yeah. So it kind of took on a life of its own for like how crazy it really was. Well, that was going to lead to my next thing I was going to do here, the from hell era, which Wesley Morris coined back on Graham. I don't know if he came up with it, but that was the first time I'd heard of it. Fatal attraction starts at 1987. Yeah. And we did fatal attraction and rewatchables.

And we talked about how this launched the From Hell era. So you have Pacific Heights, Michael King, the tenant from hell. Sleeping with the enemy, the husband from hell. Hand that rocks the cradle, the nanny from hell. Unlawful entry, the policeman from hell, Ray Leota. Single-white female, the roommate from hell. The good son, the little kid from hell.

The temp, the temp from hell. And then the crush, basically the Lolita from hell. And this is all in the span of six years. And what happens is what you mentioned earlier. Eventually, Lifetime is like, cool. We'll just make this a genre. But before that happened, we had the major networks like Fox, NBC. They started doing the TV movie versions of this.

And they would use 902 and O people and Melrose Place people and Save the Bell people. Tori Spelling was in like four of them. Yeah, she was. Same premise. One star, they're in danger. Somebody flipped the switch on them. And that became a thing. And then eventually it's set it on Lifetime for the next 20 years.

It's almost like she got that kind of audition being the meek, demure member of the cool kids on 90210. That was like her audition to play that character over and over and over again. Tiffany and Berthizam was another one who was in a bunch of them. Jenny Garth was in a couple. It would be like Brian Austin Green when they wanted to flip it, where it was like now the guy's in danger with some crazy ex-girlfriend, and they would just run through all the characters.

Yeah, you know what? The thing was, it became a weird thing to where it became super compelling to watch human obsession to watch people. And there's a couple of different ways that they do it, right? And it was always funny to me. Because in the fatal attraction situation, I remember my mom and her sisters, they would watch that a little bit different.

And the reason why they will watch that different, that was still to them, to these ladies, that's still a men ain't shit movie. Because they looked at him as having deserved all of the things that he got himself into because of what he was doing he was fucking around on his wife but this one

it's just a film where you get to do something that you hardly get to do which is throw yourself totally into the protagonist I mean the protagonist is sleeping with the enemy doesn't make one mistake is a complete pallet for you to just go dive completely into you

the husband is all consuming evil. He literally plays like the Darth Vader death march before they make love. He puts on like a weird like a weird foreboding song. It's like not like

Barry White. It's not like he was a baby. No, he's like dun dun dun. It's like every single part of him. And that's just easy to watch man. Those are easy movies to watch. Single white female is a very easy film. Oh no. Oh God. It's dreams of a witch

seven. Right. To have sex. So anyway. That is the scariest song ever used in a movie. If I was in like a drugstore and I heard that in a drug store, I'd be like, oh my God, something terrible is about to happen. Right. Oh my God, run. Run for your lives. So fatal traction creates this.

And fatal traction is an incredibly well-done movie. It got Oscar attention. I think for Glenn Close to Michael Douglas and did amazing things. Adrian Lyon, same thing. It created the blueprint for let's get one star, we'll put them in peril. I think when we talked, when I mentioned those from hell movies, the difference with this movie and all the other ones. And you left out disclosure, the boss from hell. You're right, disclosure, 1994.

Yeah, the boss from hell is a good one. Yeah. I think what sets this movie apart is the villain, the husband. Patrick Bergen, who has this mixture of, I think he's completely terrifying. I've never seen a character quite like him. The way he talks, he's just pure evil. And as you said, every checkpoint, he stays the most evil thing.

Even at the end when she's shooting at him, he's like, he's just completely over the top. The only one that I can say compares would be the nanny and hand that rocks the cradle, Rebecca DeMorne's character. When she breastfeeds the baby, the Annabelle Seora's baby, and she's like,

I'm going to breastfeed. You're like, oh, my God. That was one of those in the theater. People were like, oh. But the husband as the villain, I think it's almost untappable. You can't take him seriously in any other movie after this.

This is what I was going to bring up on the T2 podcast. While I was going to bring up on a T2 podcast, I'm glad we saved it for this podcast, was the fact that after watching Robert Patrick as the T-1000, it took a long time for me to get it was almost like they needed the T-1000 and then they created him for the role.

That's how it seems now. Like they made him in a lab for the role. So for a long time, I can only see the cold killing machine, right? I remember Patrick Bergen, right? And remember, he's not just an abusive husband in this. He's part of abusive husband,

part Freddie Kruger, and then part Batman. Like, he's the best detective in the world as well. Because he has to track her down using, like, forensic detective work, analyzing stuff, to find out where she is. is, you know what I mean? So he's completely terrifying. But I remember shortly after this,

when his star was starting to rise, I think he became like Robin Hood. He was Robin Hood the same year. And I got to be honest with you. I wasn't fucking with him at all. Like, I'm not about to watch you as Robin Hood, especially coming off the most ridiculous yet satisfying Robin Hood that we've ever had, which was Kevin Costner, right? Yeah. Like the, who was then America's likable guy, watching this guy, it just did not work. He, for this to be the first time that I remember Patrick Bergen, that's a hell of a role to get out from under, man. That's just a lot.

He was completely menacing, terrible, pure evil, and then almost unavoidable. He was every omniscient in the movie. He knew everything. He could see everything. He could do everything and used all of this to terrorize this one woman for no reason. And it's Julia Roberts. Not only that, it's not just who he was, it's who she was.

It was pretty woman. We literally just fell in love with every time she smiled. And now you're bumming her out. It was just a weird confluence of things for that to be kind of career paralyzing for him, at least for a little while in that way. It was a really good career move for her. And the movie wasn't reviewed that well, but it made $175 million on a budget of $19 million. Domestic?

Jesus. What? I didn't realize it was that lit. It was the seventh biggest movie of 1991. In order, Terminator 2, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, Home Alone, Silence of Lamps, City Slickers, Dances with Wolves, Sleeping with the Enemy, Seven. Wow. And it was all because she was the biggest star in the world.

She looks fantastic. I don't think she's ever looked better in a movie. We're going to litigate that later. And she's in danger. And when he turns on her, and it's a disturbing scene when he gets mad that she talked to the book out. We'll talk to that later. When he hits her, that was in the theater, one of those, it's like a gas. But you know what the movie was.

You're going to the movie. You know, all right, she's got this. He kind of knew the premise from the trailer. But when Julie Roberts actually gets hit, it's really awful for a whole bunch of reasons. But just to see America's sweetheart in a relationship like that, you're invested immediately. Like, oh, my God, we've got to save her. And I think that's one of the reasons it's so effective. So he goes down and he has this very collegial, very sort of almost nothing conversation with the doctor.

Right. By the way, the doctor never says he was in the house. He was just like, oh, I've admired your house. I saw your wife look down the window a couple times. And the husband's like, okay. And then thinks she invited him in, basically. In the past, what people would do is that in situations where there was abuse, they'd always say, hey, he's a drunk, he's a drug addict, he's this, he's that. This guy is none of those things.

He's just fucked up. He goes out there, he has a very nice conversation with the guy, talks to him about his boat. The guy compliments him on how beautiful his wife is, right? He goes back and takes that whole thing and uses it to destroy her. You're like, yo, she's got to get away from this guy. This guy is crazy. The movie is made right there. there in that scene.

Yeah, I agree. One interesting thing that we talked about, the evolution of the From Hell gimmick. So it starts with fatal traction of mainstream movies. It drifts over to TV movies like we talked about with the Tory Spelling era. Yeah. Goes to Lifetime.

Yeah. Which is it lives now? No, that's not where it lives now. You know where it really lives now? What does it live? With black movie people. Oh, they have now the last five, six years. They're basically really,

remaking all these situations with all black cast. And Michael Ely's in like half of them. Right. He's either the bad guy or the good guy, depending on the movie. But I just watched one a month ago with Hillary Swank as the one-night stand for Mal. Yeah, Fatal. Michael Ely is a sports agent. For some reason, he's celebrating early in the movie because he signed Lance Stevenson, who has a cameo.

Right. And then it's like, we got Lance Stevenson. Things are taking off. It's like, what year is this movie, 2012? Yeah. It's true. And not only that, by the way, I love that you said black movie people. Black movie.

You mean the black film. You mean the black film. The community. Black movie goers? I met movie goers. Movie people. I know. That's crazy.

All right. No. So they've done it a couple times. Remember obsession? A couple times. Obsession. A million times. What about the Dennis Quaid movie?

And so, yeah, all of that. And then there was one that was really good. It was with, um, it was they did the Aegis Elba. He's your shoveling with with Henson. But see, here's the thing, though. What that, that comes, that's derived from this. See, what we realize is that, look, it's one thing that why it's white people cut up. That's cool.

But it's really, really, really crazy to see it when we get all other cultural dynamics to it, especially in the Beyonce one because then that was a white woman trying to get a black man. that right there, she was the easy villain. Because, I mean, that's one thing to be a villain when you're in the picture with a black athlete and everybody, all the sisters got to go unlike, unlike, unlike on the picture. That's one thing. It's a whole cultural thing. But then when you see a beautiful black couple and then she's trying to come in there and she's the interloper trying to take it away, it's a thing. Plus, those are easy films to talk with your friends about.

It's easy to be like, yo, you see how crazy they were acting. You see how crazy this is. You see how crazy it. It's just easy. In some of those films, like, there's one where Michael Ely's the bad one, and there's like a shower scene to where they're making love in the shower, and he's outside of the shower. That's just an easy one for Twitter to get behind.

It's crazy. They're fun of popcorn movies, if we're being honest. I'm in every time. Yeah. I texted you the night Fatal came out. And I was like, you were so into Fatal. I was like, I'm in. It's just all I needed.

I did. It was Hillary Swank. What night's in? Yeah, you're so into Fatal. You loved Fatal. I like all of these movies. I think it's been interesting, though, as they've made them, basically with all black cast, but the white person is the villain in like 75% of them, which has been the twist,

where it's like, like, Ali Larder was the one in that, uh, the Beyonce movie. And it was like, and she, she's basically Glenn close to that movie. But I, I think they're going to keep making them because I think they make money every time. But it all starts, it starts with Fatal Tract. but it really starts with sleeping with the enemy because this movie made a ton of money. They realized they just needed the one star and then it goes through

and we go through the rest of the way. Back to Patrick Bergen for a second. So he's a homicidal domestic abuser control freak but then they throw in OCD

as the final piece to make him a psycho where it's like the fucking bat towels. They're not aligned on the side. I'm furious right now. What are these towels? It's lagging below.

Hey, the canned goods. What's going on here? The labels aren't facing to the front in the can't goods. I actually could have spent more time with it. I thought he was so, he was such a crazy character. I kind of felt like they could have gone even further.

What was this car like? And the whole, and that's kind of something. That was the first thing. The first sign that's something. was fucked up. The towels. He says, yeah, does everything look like?

Because he doesn't just fix the towel. It'll be one thing if he just fixed the towel. That's not what he did. He marched her back in there to call out the fact that the towels were messed up. That's the abusive part. What does he say?

The sentence, the way he says it, is the creepiest. Everything in here is it should be. It's just kind of perfectly phrased. It's like, oh, that's weird. And then she apologizes. And he goes, well, we all forget things. That's what reminding is for.

And you're like, oh, I fucking hate this guy. This guy needs to die at the end of this movie. Yeah, he's got certain ways of saying things. The actor is from was born in Dublin. He's Irish. So he's got this weird twang to his voice. So when he says stuff like, I'm sorry, we quarreled. Quarled.

Yeah, he uses quarrel and supper and pout. And supper? Yeah, supper. These words that you don't normally hear. the director of this movie Joseph Rubin, I'm just going to read some of his work Tell me if he's in your wheelhouse Dreamscape, the stepfather, true believers

Sleep with the Enemy, the Good Son and Money Train That was on a 10-year run. Yeah, I like it. It's kind of good, I'm with him a little bit. By the way, I'm a money train fan. Me too. I'm a big money train guy. Oh, that was, by the way, we have a run.

People, it seems weird to say peak J-Lo because it seems like J-Lo is always peak J-Lo. No. But there was a mid-90s J-Lo. J-Lo to where you were like, oh, my God. Like, it was just like, it was, or you were like, yo. And Money Train was, in a way, her kind of coming out party film-wise. It was like one of the first big deals for her.

Like Selena and Money-Train and all of those things, they were kind of all around the same time. Money-Train was a big deal. Well, the key with J-Lo, she stood out in such a way that she was just one of the finance. on In Living Color. And people were like, who's that? And she ended up having a career just from like dancing on a sketch comedy show.

But it's funny, she ends up doing her own version of Sleeful with the Enemy in 2002. And I also really like. That was a good one. Remate the movie. She did it because there are elements of enough in sleeping with the enemy, of course, except in enough. It's like really a Marvel superhero origin story. Yeah. Because, like, in this movie,

Julie Roberts develops some new skills. And enough, Jennifer Lopez essentially becomes a Navy seal in order to defeat her abusive husband. And that's, like, she just, at the end, she's doing cry of maga. She's flipping over stuff. She's a weapon. She's ready.

She's ready for the fight at the end of it. Yeah. I like that movie. I think it's a better movie overall than sleeping with the enemy. but I think the villain and Sleep with the Enemy is so much better than the Enough guy. Enough from beginning to end is a better movie. I think Sleep with the Enemy,

really the first half of the movie is probably better than the second half. And enough is kind of better the whole way through, but the villain is just not as good. And then Jennifer Garner tried to do it two years ago, peppermint. I didn't see that one. Well, it's not good.

I didn't see that one. Was she the villain or was there some guy? Who was the guy villain in this one? She, her husband and her kid get murdered by in a drug deal kind of mistaken identity thing. And she disappears and comes back and decides to whip out the whole cartel in L.A. one by one. Not going forward. And same kind of like enough thing. I got to say it's terrible, but it's watchable.

I can't completely tell you not. I can't completely not recommend it. Because I like all these movies, every one of them. I like revenge stuff. Like I, but I will say something about the villain in this movie. And I think that this is something that people have to remember. Like, filmmaking changes in grandiose ways. And then the time that Patrick Bergen comes along,

there's still this archetype that I don't really feel like exists anymore. We're coming off of Hollywood being obsessed with the tall, dark, and handsome film star. A whole generation and a half of your Kerry Grant's and your rights. Hudson's and your big, tall, dark, like, uh, Bert Reynolds's guys like that. And I can't remember a guy who looked like he was cut from that cloth, like he would be in a swashbuckling movie, being the hero. Right. Be so clearly be a villain. Right. He was, and that's kind of what Patrick Bergen was, this tall, stand up completely straight, like almost a criss, a mutated

Christopher Reeve. Right. Almost like an anti-Christopher Eve in a way. And he's like that bad. And Even though, you know, Chris, Christopher Eve death trap a little bit was like the bad guy. But in this particular movie, it works so, that they're actually turning an archetype on his head as well, not just an actual character, not just, you know, a white collar guy, just the whole archetype of that. They're turning it on its head as well. So negative reviews, 175 million broke the record at the time for the highest domestic opening for a female-centric film. 13 million first weekend. I don't remember that. Ended Home Alone's 12-week run on the box office on the top of the box office.

Wow. Home-lo's number one for 12 weeks. That'll never happen again. Roger Ebert, one and a half stars. You'd argue. Honestly, if somebody's going to go one-and-a-half stars for this, I'm not going to get mad. He said, quote, a slasher movie in disguise, an upmarket version of the old exploitation formula where the victim can run, but she can't hide.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why I give it three stars. We're going to do the categories. We'll take a quick break. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go,

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All right. Most rewatchable scene. So, I mean, this is a rewatchable in one sense because, you know, it ends in a bad way for Julia. But it's so scary when he goes to see the bokeye, because I know what's going to happen next. John Fleischman, I guess we must be neighbors. Martin Bernie. We live up there.

Oh, so that must be your wife that I keep seeing staring down from the window. Laura. You're a lucky man. I've been admiring your house. It's one of the best on Cape Cod. Thanks. You're from Boston? Yeah, I've escaped from Mass General.

I'm a neurologist there. You live in Boston, too. I'm an investment council. This is a terrific looking boat. Boats are a passion of mine when I don't get to indulge very often. That's too bad. I would never let anything keep me off the water. My wife doesn't like sailing.

She can't swim. Nearly drowned when she was a child. I usually try to get her on a boat at least once a season. And he's talking to the boat guy. And the guy's like, yeah, your wife. She's lovely. She looks out the window sometimes. And it's just the whole way it's set up

when he goes back in the house, you're like, oh, no. Oh, God. And I wouldn't say it's most rewatchable, but I think it's a really important scene. I wanted to flag it. The dinner scene is rewatchable. When she makes him dinner, they've kind of made up, but she hates him.

You know, she's angling for a way out. She wants to convince her to go on the boat. And he goes, she goes, had your dinner been laid to the table even once? And he's like, oh, I can remember when it was late by two days. And it's kind of on and they're playing little chess. And then he goes, you sneaked off inexplicably. I remind you to how are I worried.

No, you reminded me enough the night I came back. And then he goes, you're not suggesting I enjoyed that. And she goes, God, no. That will make you a monster. She died, Martin. How can I not go to her funeral? You had told me I would have taken you, given me a chance to pay my last respects.

you sneaked off inexplicably. I didn't sneak off. Need I remind you how I worried? No. You reminded me enough the night I came back. You aren't suggesting I enjoy that. God, no.

That would make you a monster. That seems fucking great. It is. And he's like kind of calculating it, trying to be like, hmm, should I escalate this? Should I escalate the quarrel? The quarrel.

Doesn't, but the chess match of that is really good, right? It's fantastic. And it also lets you know that there's a resistance brewing inside of her. It's there's she, she's not completely impotent. Like she is taking some, but then giving some back. Right. She has an opinion. She knows what this guy really is.

And there's something brewing inside of her. Because before then, all you really see in her is complete fear. complete fear and just deference to him. That's the first time you see, hey, she's not giving it. She's not just all taking it. She's giving some back. Something else about the boat scene.

It's interesting about the boat scene is because, okay, so when you look at the scene, if he's talking to this guy and in this way, he thinks this guy is fucking around with his wife, notice that he never treats the man like that. okay he never says he never calls him out oh you've been staring at my wife have you been in my house have you done any of that stuff so not only is he a villain but he's also a coward right

so that ended up that little stuff like that in a film lines that aren't said they subtract away from your villain they like take things away from your villain and leave the villain empty and hollow and easier for you to hate. Because this guy gives all of this to somebody who he knows is ill-equipped to fight back. And when we're talking about domestic abuse, that's normally what we see. You fight your wife, but you won't fight the cops. You fight your wife, but you won't fight her brother or her cousins or anything like that. We see that type of cowardice all the time.

And great writing, because not only is he not giving it to this guy, he wants to go hang out with him I was going to say, he accepts his invitation. Right. For a dude that he has in his mind is maybe doing something with his wife or he thinks it's possible. But really, all it is is an excuse to beat on her. He would never come at him like that, even if he thought it, because he's a coward. And for us, it shows us like, this guy isn't just jealous. He's insane.

He's crazy. Yeah, he's insane because he takes this conversation, twist it the way he wants to, and then takes it out. next one the sailing accident I'm going to lump these together sailing accident to the funeral to the flashback escape

when she explains when she does the usual suspects on it yeah the actual sailing accident it's a really good scene it's one of those scenes it's so well shot

you feel like the actual actors are in danger you don't know how they're doing it the sail swaying around it's almost hitting them I was thinking to myself like this is the perfect storm like if somebody falls in

or do we have enough crew around to help them out. It looked like it's a little chop on protecting waters out there. It looks like it was pretty, pretty dangerous, man. Right. And they're doing everything wrong. Like they're in the front of the boat, which you're not supposed to do in a storm. But then looks back, she's out there, Laura goes to the funeral and then the flashback escape. I love how you talk to me, like I know anything about being in a boat that's small. We don't do that. That's all Cape Cod-esque whiteness. I've never been in the boat. You could see the little tilting. It's in a storm. That's crazy. Mr. Cape Cod, like they're in the

front day, like, yeah, he didn't know how to get the jib and the bow and the stern. I ain't never done any of that shit. I'm not getting on that boat at night. I'm not getting on that boat at night, Bill. It's never going to happen. So I don't even get, I don't know why y'all do shit like that. I'm going to be real with you. I also would not get on that boat tonight.

And she does that that was the night I died, but someone else was saved. The narration, as you know, I'm anti-narration. I do like the narration here. Someone who knew the darkness from the broken lights would show the way. That was the night that I died, and someone else was saved. Someone who was afraid of water, but learned to swim. Someone who knew there would be one moment when he wouldn't be watching. Someone who knew that the darkness from the broken lights would show the way.

And that's when you realize, like, oh, shit, she put some real thought up to this. She broke the light for a reason. There's a voila-la moment that I think really works. I think that whole sequence is incredibly watchable. Next we watchable scene The husband gets the call from the wide WCA lady Brough Hey well you know we swam

And he's fucking They do a cool camera 360 Before he breaks the phone Goes to the house He's blowing it up looking for stuff And then finally finds the ring That seems really good because you're like Oh shit

It's gonna find something I hope I'm not disturbing you I just heard about Laura And I wanted to call and tell you How much we'll miss her Thank you How did you know her? From the YWCA.

No, you must be speaking of someone else. My wife never went to the YWCA. No, no. We took swimming there Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 8 a.m. Look, there's obviously some mistake. My wife drowned. She couldn't swim. Well, at first she couldn't, but she became a good swimmer.

I'm sure you have the wrong woman. This is odd. Mr. Bernie, your wife's... studied gymnastics, didn't she? No, my wife never studied gymnastics. That's strange. She told us that's how she got all those terrible bruises. Mr. Bernie, I don't understand it.

I'm sorry if I've bothered you. This is just so... I was so pissed off at the YWCA lady. Oh, yeah, yeah. What are you doing, YWCA lady? Like, what's your true goal? Like, I never thought about this scene before. you're calling up, you're going through all of this,

he's just getting all. He is punking you for the info, YWCA lady, and you just giving it all up. Very, just one of the, it's rewatchable, but I was just annoyed as hell. You call up and give him up like he, by the way, it's weird. Because if I call you, Bill,

and I'm talking about, let's say I'm talking about Chris, and I say something, and then I realize Chris hasn't told you, the real motherfucking and me right away the real motherfucker of me

goes, oh shit, no man, what about them Celtics? Like, you know, you know what I'm saying? Right away,

I know, but she keeps giving it up, shut up, YWCA lady, shut up. She gives it all away. Also, I know this is a pre-OJ movie so the domestic violence awareness

was not really where it was going to be four or five years later. But that said, this lady's taking up swimming at the WI, YWCA, and she's got bruises all over her body. And they're like, where do you get it? Oh, gymnastics. It's like, why the

fuck she's a grown woman? Why is she taking gymnastics? Right. And then she mysteriously dies on a boat. Why WCA lady, why not put two and two together and be like, hmm, maybe I should call the police. Right. Let's see what's going on here. She had bruises. She's out here training. Probably had to be all kinds of weird times. And then she disappears. The cops are asking, well, I'll let you know. She did appear beat up a lot. So there was trauma going to on in her life. He learned that to swim, but she drowned. She had bruises. How fucking hard was this to figure out? No, YWCA lady, you fucked this whole thing up. Don't be the YWCA lady in life. Don't be it for many reasons. Terrible. A job by her. The carnival scene is really good.

That is the peak of the Patrick Bergen face when he's watching from afar and he's like doing like the guy in scanners, like his head's going to blow up. Just perfect. His mustache is like pulsating, everything about that. That scenes really well shot. And then the ending when she realizes he's in the house. And it's like, that's weird playing that creepy song he used to play. I wonder if that was my new boyfriend as a joke. It's like, no, I'm pretty sure your new boyfriend would have a joke about that.

And then she looks at the towels. And then she's like, oh, man, I hope the canned goods haven't been reordered. Right. opens the covered and yeah I mean it's a good thing about a film like this is even in the past films

the crazy just keeps getting ramped up like you already know Glenn Close is crazy then she boils the rabbit and you know wow she's really really fucking crazy and this guy keeps ramping it up right because he's obsessed you know he's obsessed but then at the point that you

play the song and you rearrange all the stuff, this guy is really fucked in the head. Like, something's really, really wrong. And at that point, you wonder, so he's got to just be out to kill her now, right? He's not coming back to get her back

because he's now gone full nightmare on Elm Street villain. I will throw another scene in there for most rewatchable for me, though. Okay. And I think it's quietly one of the most empowering scenes in the movie, where she shares the apple with the lady on the bus, where the lady gives

her the apples. And I'll tell you why, it is the first time she felt brave enough to tell her story. Even though she used a third person, even though she did all of that stuff, you know, you have kind of the busy body lady on the bus who'll give you a green apple. If you ever wrote the bus before, which I have from Los Angeles, all the way to Louisiana and back and forth, I've done it before. If you're thinking about doing it, I'll pay for your flight rather than subject you to that. But there's always a lady on there that's like that's super talkative and all of that stuff like that. And this is somebody who she knows isn't connected to anything. And for the first time, she can say out loud things that she had only ever been thinking. And that's a real important

moment for the character because it's also necessary for her to take the first step to leave that in the past, which is to admit that it was all actually happening to someone else to get rid of the secret. So I think that that was a great scene too. And I love to watch it. It was very, very touching. Couldn't agree more. Let's go to what stage is the best.

Sure. The fucking house is amazing. It is. And I have some details on the house later, but I would put that house against any movie house for just how spectacular. I don't blame the sailing guy for staring at the house. Yeah. I don't blame them for just checking it out every once to a while and

and maybe noticing the smoking hot lady in the window looking back down sadly. Right, right. I don't think anybody's in the wrong, is my point. I don't either. It's also the house when you look at it, because I actually paused a couple of, it looks like it's popping right up out of the beach. There doesn't seem to be much like surrounding it. It's just like this beautiful structure kind of right up out of the sand right there. I've never been to Cape Cod.

I'm assuming that you have. Are they getting it like that at Cape Codder? There are tons of homes like that. You see them? Well, let's do this now. I was going to do this later. So they filmed this in Shell Allen, which is like in the South. This whole movie's filmed in the South.

They built the house. What? The outside structure of the house. It's a fake house. They built it in an environmentally sensitive zone of beach grass. They only gained permission to build there by promising to tear the whole thing down and restore the property as soon as shooting was done, which they did. They donated all the materials. It was to Anderson County, South Carolina.

So they spent whatever they spent to build the fake house and another $25,000 to get rid of it. And now there's nothing there. I couldn't believe it. I thought it was like in Nantucket or someplace in Cape Guard. No, it's a fake house they built in South Carolina. It blew my mind. I had no idea. I watched this movie. a million times over the last 30 years. Had no idea. I have so many questions. I know.

Why not just find a house in Antarctica? Why not just find a house in Antarctica to shoot there? That's got to be cheaper than building it from scratch in a different location. Well, that's the reason why the house was like it's popping straight up out of the beach because it is popping straight up out of the beach. And that's why it's such a cool house because it would never exist in real life because it would probably just get the first time you had a hurricane. It would just get swept away.

get blown right. Oh, that's weird. And by the way, that's some early 90s shit right then. Well, I'm sure they were like thinking the taxes in South Carolina versus if they built in Massachusetts, which had no movie taxes at that point. It would have been so much more expensive to shoot to Massachusetts. They probably did the matter.

Maybe so. Maybe it worked out. And it had to have, right? They always want to do it the cheapest way. Another one saves the best. Great title. Sleeping with the enemy. That's way up there. Fatal attraction, sleep with the enemy. Those are just quality types. titles. Julia Roberts. She's fantastic.

She just looks great in this movie. This is, as far as as you, you said, this is the best she's looked in the film. I think this is Apex, Julia, from a look standpoint. We were, I was in college. She's probably two, three years older than her than I was.

Definitely would have committed a murder to date her for like six months. You'd be like, nobody would ever find out about them. I was like, cool. Just tell me who to kill. The VersaClimber. Right. So Patrick Bergen's character, he's using the VersaClimer in the beginning.

I see it. Yeah. 20 years later, the Versa Climber becomes the whole thing with LeBron James and the whole fitness craze of this decade. I didn't know the Versa Climber was around that long. Incredible job by the Versa Climber. I didn't know it had a 30-year run. It was, it was Evander Holyfield's preferred method of cardio. Yeah.

He was huge. like we have one in my boxing gym and we like there's a holyfield climb that you have to do at the boxing gym. Avent of Holyfield love the versatile climbing. There's a and then LeBron I think was the one that really made it great. We all forget things. That's what reminding is for. I don't know why I forgot. Well, we all forget things. That's what reminding is for. If you're dating somebody who says that to you, just break up with them. That's done. It's over. That's a what's age the best of like that's a good litmus test for just get away from the person you're with. Yeah, it's fucking Thanos.

The other guy who we haven't talked about yet that she falls in love with who is going to come up more strongly in what stage is the worst. His mullet beard combo, it's, so the mullet is the Yarmiery Jagger. Okay. Hockey player in the Penguins at the time where he had the best one, fluffy in the top, long on the back. But then this guy threw in the beard, incredible degree of difficulty. I really feel like this is the only year you could have done that in a movie. 90, it's too early.

92, it's too late. There's a specific six-month sweet spot for the Yager haircut with the beard. Otherwise, you look like you're going to a Halloween as dressed as somebody. Nobody would actually ever have that again. It was six-month span. Now, the thing about the mullet is

the mullet is basically the nickel back of haircuts. because people look back on nickelback now and they talk shit about nickelback. Yeah. But I was there, Bill. Yeah, they fell. Yeah. Bill, I was there.

I'm sorry. All of y'all are lying. Yeah. How you remind me would come on and the whole bar would sing. And I don't know when it went left, but it went left in a way for nickelback. Even Nickelback is sitting.

somewhere right now thinking, y'all, we were hot in 2003, right? We're not lying about that. Like, we were, people looking at us like, we created, we were, we were hot. I don't know what's going on. That's how the mullet is. People act like the mullet. They look like they laugh at it now, but there was some significant mullets on sexy, sexy men. Gerardo Rico Suave guy had a version of the mullet. Billy Ray Cyrus had a version of the mullet. You had a sort of weird type of of mullet that Mel Gibson had. These were sexy, sexy men. Like hockey players.

Brandon. Brandon, first season of 902 and O. Brandon has a legit mullet. So my thing is, at this particular time, if a mullet was going to save you, that was probably right online.

That was the way shit should have been. Like she was saved by a mullet. A lot of these heroic guys had mullet. So it's the kind of deal. So when I look back on them, I'm like, yeah, that's a hero for the early 90s. That's how that was. That's why I have that in what stage the best?

It is perfect for that specific era. It is perfect. A year later, it would make no sense, and you'd be like, what are you doing? I think Kid Rock is a good example of him arguing with somebody how hot he was in 1999. You have no idea. I was selling out football stadiums.

People love my music. Kid Rock is like, hey, I made a song where the hook is literally like not a word. It's just a bunch of sound. It's just a bunch of gibberish. It's just a bunch of gibberish. I was so hot. People would go insane.

And he's saying this as he's talking to a Q&Rs supporter in like a chat group message board. But like it was a big fucking deal. And it's just crazy how shit changes. Last, what's age the best for me is the husband's death scene. Just because it's really funny. If you really watch it closely, like how he reacts to the, to the shot. Ah! Ra!

It's just, at that point, he's just, I don't know what he's going for. It's not an Oscar. But I really just. Any other would stage the best for you? The, the, is he dead super, uh,

horror movie moment. When they come back. Yeah, they always have to do that. They always, and by the way, the only reason why I say in age is the best is because they still haven't stopped doing it.

Yeah. They continue to do them close in the bathtub. They do it. Oh, she's dead. Oh, no, she's not dead. There's,

it's, because these people have two lives. They have a regular life that, you know, their heart beats and then the evil keeps them alive to. So you got to kill them, then you got to kill the evil. And they still fatal.

They did it with fatal. It was for fatal. But let's just say one of them isn't dead when you think they're dead. Right. They're going to come back. So that continues. Yeah, they jerk back up. They jerk back.

Oh, I still got to kill you. I'm dripping my rage. My last time, Beth. I'm shooting you. What's age the worst? This song, it's just not doing well on Spotify these days. You know, yeah. It's like, hey, put on some music.

You know what? I put it out to sleep with the enemy suck. I have that for West Sage's the Worst. I also have everything about the West Side Story scene. Wow, you don't like that one, huh? Well, I don't think West Side Story has aged well for people under 30, like producer Craig. They probably don't even know what's going on there with when you're a jet, you're a jet.

Also, like, introducing our new male heartthrob with somebody just singing a West Side Soror song while playing with a hose was a weird choice. I don't really understand that at all. I'll tell you why, though. It's actually perfect. Because he's safe. He's a drama teacher. He poses no threat.

He's got a mullet. He's got a mullet. He's the safe guy. He's a drama teacher. He's super playful. He doesn't care about what people think. He's playing around in his backyard, acting like he's the jets and the sharks,

shooting the holes around. When nobody's looking, he's full of life, he's free. He's all of these things. This is also another trope in these movies, where the more successful you are, the more dangerous you are. The one guy is super rich Wall Street investment guy. That means he has a dark side. But the true good guy is always an every man.

He's always sort of failed. The only thing he has to give you is his love and his goofiness. And so that's why they introduced the guy that way. Another would stage the worst. It makes me think of OJ, which I never like thinking of OJ in 94, but I do think when this movie came out, the lack of education and just know-how about domestic violence

and OJ was the turning point for all that stuff. And you watch some of the beats in this movie now and if this movie's 1996, she's shown up at the YWCA classes with the bruises from the leg of gym. I just think it would be received completely. It would be a lot more far-fetched that this guy could get away with this stuff.

Yeah, I agree. And I think that that's something that struck me about the film too. And, you know, I was a kid when it came out and I just used to listen to people talk about things like this. A guy being an abuser at that point sometimes got treated as just another aside about them. Like, I would hear things about athletes. I'm not going to. Well, you'd say in sports, all that you would see the guy would get arrested. You would let go out and be back on the team next day.

Yeah. And like my dad would say, oh, he's the best running back I've ever seen before in my life. And my mother would be like, hey, you know, he threw a woman off of a woman off of a team. a balcony or something like that or all of that stuff because that stuff about OJ, it wasn't super known but it wasn't a secret.

It was out there. Yeah, people had known that it had happened but they it almost seemed as if they kind of just didn't care. And so that kind of thing was going on right? It was seems out and this movie was one of the first times I was like well that leads to something

like that kind of abuse can end up in a dead body. So yeah, think, you know, things changed. Casting what ifs. Julia's role was originally written for Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda, yeah. Not Bridget? Oh, that's kind of out of...

I think it started, maybe the book came out in 87. Oh, so I think they were trying to figure out. And whatever. Kim Basinger turned down the part. That's a different movie. He wasn't right for the role. And then Julia's schedule freed up. Yeah.

They cut her a big check and that was it. It was Patrick Bergen's idea to use composer, Hector Burley Oates' song, which is the song we played. Patrick Bergen's like, hey, I've got the song for you. I think we need to watch Patrick Bergen. I don't know what's going on. I think we need to pay attention to his dog. Nah, dog.

Who listening to that? I don't know. That's weird to me. See, I don't like that one. Of all the rewatchables I've done, I'm not scared of Patrick Bergen. I made the right decision not watching that Robin Hood shit. Well, producer Craig sent us this. Patrick Bergen got married a year after the,

this movie came out. Shit. And producer Craig wondered, his wife saw this movie and then it's like, let's keep going. You're just acting? How does he, how does anyone marry him after this?

I would be so scared. What happens the first time? He's like, hey, do you use all the half and half? Yeah, I'm telling you. Oh, you want. And then it's like, dun,

I'd be so scared of that, dude. Yes. And the problem with Bergen is he didn't have a get-back role. Like, Danny Glover, almost suffered through this. Like my mama wasn't fucking with Danny Glover for a long time after the color purple. She couldn't do it. Really? She hated the side of him.

Hated the side of him. He missed her to her. But what happened was he came back as the lovable Murtaugh. And then that was it. So Patrick Brugan needed a get back, Roe. Didn't get one. Best that guy a kid the Joey Pants to where there wasn't really like a jump out that guy. But I

got to say, I think the new boyfriend played by Kevin Anderson is kind of like the guy from this movie. He's been in some other stuff, but I can't name one thing he's been in. If I ever saw him on anything, I'd be like, oh, that guy from sleeping with the enemy. I kind of feel like he's the guy for this category. For some reason, I feel like I've seen the woman who gave her the apple and some other things. So I looked that up and I couldn't find anything else. Nothing. I tried her. Yeah. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for overacting. There's only one candidate here,

Patrick Bergen. Yeah. He dials it up a thousand different times. The Dionne Waiter's a word for Best Heat Check. I couldn't find one. So I'm doing something we've never done in the Ruehachos before, giving it to the casting director. Interesting. Who somehow thought it was a smart idea and a good idea to not have a single black person in this movie. What a heat check? There's no black people in this movie, not one black person.

There's not one black person, not only with the speaking part, but I went back. I even fast forwarded through the party scene to see if we even could see one black face in that scene. No, this is a completely white movie. I don't know if it's intentional. I don't know what's going on with that, but I thought that was a really bizarre fact.

Okay. I have a couple of reasons why I feel like this is probably a thing. Number one, Julia Roberts couldn't have had any black friends. She just couldn't have. The character couldn't have had any black friends. Because if, if like, she had a black friend,

She's like my mom or something like that. My mom going to come over in the middle of supper. She's going to walk in. She's going to be like, is everything all right in here? I want to make sure everybody in here is behaving because I hear things about what's going on in this household. You know what I mean? And then she got a husband and that husband not going to let you talk crazy to his wife. He's going to come in.

He's going to have stuff to say he going to try to stay out of their business. You know what I mean? But he's going to come in. And then Julia Roberts' boyfriend, the new guy. he couldn't have been black either because if he was black The lady on the bus could have been black The fucking nurse could have been black

Some of them Some of them could have been But I don't look I guess so If you have smaller parts Oh by the way I do recognize One of the nurses The nurses that is not it's not of that guy

But I just looked it up I recognized the nurse that he was talking to To get the information from Yeah That's the same lady that played The Hot Chicken Groundhogs Day Which is kind of the day We're filming that

Remember the hot chicken ground Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hot chick and Groundhog Day. He was like, yeah, I was like, what I know her from? She played the hot chicken, the one that he first gets with. But yeah, so I think I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to, I don't make it my point to speak for all black people. I don't.

But I will say, based on the black people that I do know and I got 40 years of being black, we okay with not being in this one. I think it's cool. I think like for me, I don't, because, you know, we'd have to get involved. We're not going to let some of this stuff go. Like, we're okay. Like if the black lady was the lady from the YWCA, that's a completely different phone call.

It's a different call. It's like a whole different phone call. She got a lot of bruises. Do you know anything about how she might have gotten those? Because now she'd have turned up gone. So, you know, it's different. You know, so I think I'm all right with that. I don't have a problem with this one.

All right. I have no Deon Wade as a word winner than unless you want to give it to the lady with the apple for her knowing glances at Julia the whole time. recasting couch obviously we have to recast the mollet beard boyfriend guy right how about young brad pet

Thelman Louise Arab Brad Pitt is coming in as the boyfriend he's a drama teachers right maybe got some cool goate thing going yeah is he too good looking because that that's a different creature

right there would you go early George Clooney he's still like four years away from ER he's got me he could have a mullet he's got a mullet he's got it's mullet George Clooney that you put in that role because he had to hit his peek at Brad

is like a different fucking So we go Mollett George Clooney The movie's better with Mollett George Clooney Then I'm like oh man she finally found somebody And then he's getting pissed away Shaking his head well Doing a whole Joe Halfass internet research

The film was based on a 1987 97 novel The same name written by Nancy Price And then I have a really good one for you We're going to take a quick break because you're going to need to regroup for this half-ass internet. All right, here we go.

Half-Fast internet research. Julie Roberts, did you know that there was a racial controversy from this movie? No. Oh, yes. She caused a controversy after she left Abbeville, South Carolina,

where the film shot some of its scenes, said the place was a living hell and horribly racist, complained about its lack of good restaurants. The uproar in South Carolina was so great that a group of Palamano State Patriots took out a rebuttal ad in variety. And then Roberts clarified her statements. She's from Georgia.

And she said, she was referring to an incident where a black friend of hers entered an Abbeville restaurant with her and they refused her service. Julie Roberts said, I was shocked that this type of treatment still exists in America in the 90s in the South or anywhere else. This was a thing. I bought like five years of Premier Magazines

from 1987 to 1999 on eBay because it's a pandemic and I'm bored. And I went and I found the sleep with the enemy thing and they devoted multiple paragraphs to the big controversy with Julia Roberts versus this South Carolina place and her talking about her friend. So yeah.

First of all, that's insanely fascinating. Secondly, it's weird to me while that's not a bigger part of Julia Roberts's celebrity because, you know, she would get a lot of love if people knew, because let's be honest with you, there's a time when it was in vogue to stand up and do some of these things. Yeah, I know people are thinking, hey, Van, this is all, this is not like it's 1961, it's 1991, but still, during that time,

it still wasn't, there was no such thing as being woke. It wasn't like a thing. We're 26 years away from that. Right. More important than that, if you were a star, your goal was to avoid controversy. At all times, your goal was to be... Her PR person was like, don't talk about that restaurant. Don't get that out there.

Discuss it at all. Literally a couple years before then, David Duke had, like, was a serious contender for governor of my home state. So it was a thing, right? It wasn't like it was, it was, the times definitely were different. And I, to be honest, what, you took some balls on her behalf. I agree. I tell me, she's like, I think that's what you're supposed to do.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to write a home. hold, I'm not going to give her a Nobel Peace Prize. But during that time to kind of be in that thing, when you want your movies to appeal to middle America and all of that stuff like that, that took some balls on Julie. Good, good on her, man. And she doubled down when they fought back. Yeah, she clarified back, double down up.

So, yeah, good jump by her. When he hits her and she hits the marble floor, she actually hit the marble floor with her head and she got a black eye and you can see it in like the next scene. her left eye is swollen because she fell wrong and she actually hit her head. Wow. Yeah. Film was initially NC17.

Why? Cut it down to an R rating. The sex scene went too far, apparently, and they were like, this is NC17. So they had to cut it, but in the European version, you can watch the whole sex scene. Can't see a NC17 version of that sex scene. It's crazy.

That song, the Symphony Fantastique, is about a young man who, under the influence of opium, dreams of killing his girlfriend is executed and ends up in hell. So there you go. That's what the fucking song is about. Like, what you, what? Yeah. Apparently not a fun shoot, pretty grueling shoot.

Premier Magazine goes into it. The director said in the Premier Magazine thing I read, which none of these are online. So I feel like I have like this vaulted movie stuff. Right. The director, Joseph Rubin, said, Julie was on the edge of hysteria for the five days. and took to shoot the domestic violence scene.

This was not an easy shoot. It was certainly not one of those movies where it was a good time for everyone from beginning to end. And then in the article, they said, the shoot itself was full of grueling scenes. Roberts had to spend long stretches of time in water and in freezing temperatures, got the black eye.

And she said it was physically and emotionally taxing. It was my third movie in a row. I didn't anticipate how tired I was going to be in the ocean of three in the morning trying to fight the current. They say cut so I could grab on the ropes not dripped away.

And then she said, the funniest thing was the director safe and dry in his barge saying could she stop a little longer at that point?

And then she said the fact that I'm not in Tijuana right now is a miracle. Bill, that's shade. She shaded that director. Yeah. First of all,

there's no water tank. There's no water tank vibes for that joint. There's no. She was the biggest star in the world. Oh, no. They go put her in the in the ocean.

There's no water. We can't get a water tank for Julie there. But to that point, when you watch it, I'm watching it, I'm like, yo, they're really in the water. Yeah. I've watched a movie. I can tell the water tanks,

but they were really in the water. Yeah. So not a great sheet. And once again, kudos to me for buying those old premiere magazines. Apex Mountain. Julie Roberts. So I think we gave,

we said Pretty Woman was her Apex Mountain, but you could argue that making $175 billion with this crappy movie. Yeah. You could argue maybe it was, her movie career does get a little spotty after this. We move into the I Love Trouble. Pelkin Breaks probably the best one over the next five, six years

until she makes the comeback with my best friend's wedding all that stuff. Aaron Brockovich. Yeah. Hot Julie Roberts. This is her apex. I think it's my best friend's wedding. For hot Julie Roberts. I think that's the best she ever looked.

Make the case. For me, there's, even when I saw my best friend's wedding, right? And it's at that point, the hot young actress is coming up is Cameron D. as in there, that's the kind of just a position or whatever that they're doing, the comparison that they're doing. I'm thinking. That was like LeBron versus Zion. LeBron just put up the 40, 15, and 17.

Yeah, I'm looking at Julia Roberts. That's like, that's Julia Roberts, like, closer to 30. She's like, more of a woman. She's a little curvier. I'm like, okay, that's the first time I was really fucking with her like that. I still, I think she looks beautiful in that movie, yeah.

Some people like Mystic Pizza, Julia Roberts. Mystic Pizza is great, too. Some people like still Magnolia's Julia Robbins. Yeah. I don't know who those some people are, but I'm sure they're out there. Crazier character. My best friend's wedding, Julie Roberts, or the husband and sleep with the enemy? Yeah, it's close. It's close. Maybe those two should end up together. That should have been the third movie. They should just combine those. I've got my new husband.

Because it's still, it's a cute obsession, but that's an obsession movie. My best friend's wedding. Oh, it's an obsession movie. She's a fucking maniac. Apex Mountain. Fake Cape Coddhouses, absolutely. Patrick Bergen had this in Robin Hood, the second Robin Hood movie the same year. Yes. Kevin Anderson, yes. From Hell movies. So you can make the case, this movie did so well that it led to the next 30 years. Once this one worked, then we were really off. I think fatal attraction is probably Apex Mountain Four from Hell movies, just because it was so good

and was the best of all of them. But you can make a case that started from Hill era. Cedar Falls, Iowa? Can you think of a better apex? No, I can't. Although it's in my head for some reason, Cedar Falls, but I can't, I can't think.

By way, she didn't move, she didn't go far enough. I was not, no, go to, go to Nebraska, go get more Western. Get farther. But her mom was there. How about this,

rent a house with a fence? you have all this money like you're in a house where it's like just the screen door can open it any time Cedar Falls Iowa seems very pleasant it does seems America like very American Americana yeah you know I wonder if I could get service there well I'll check it out one damn let's see it can be a rigor video right you're exclusive rigger that I'll go there and see you know because you never know seem cool but I didn't see any of us there the Yager haircut this is clearly apex mountain for that picking Nets. Okay, I got a couple picking nets for you.

I'm sure you have a couple as well. The entire boat trip, they don't know a storm's coming. It's like, oh, these weather reports, it's like, I'm pretty sure the weather reports know when there's a storm. Right. Yeah. There's no storm, even in 1991, there's no storms out of nowhere.

The boats, as we said before, they're all in the front of the boat, which I don't even go on boats and know that that's the one thing you're not supposed to do on a boat is all huddle on one side of it. Right. And then it's like, why are they sailing at night? What's fun about that?

What's fun about a sailboat at 9 o'clock at night? I've never heard of such. I would never accept an invitation. Hey, Bill, you want to sail at night? No, no, thank you. I don't want to do that. So I haven't just have a lot of questions. So a couple of things.

Number one, about the boat. I have it written down. He goes, I don't know where this weather is coming from. He says that. I'm like, we know where the weather's coming from, dog. Like, we know where the weather is coming from. like a surprise storm, even if the storm was a surprise

and they took the butt out at 7, you'd have known at 6 or 530 that you wouldn't be able to sell. Right. Terrible job by that guy. Terrible job by that guy. But there's something else. So when she's at dinner with a mullet hero,

she still has the scar on her head from when she got hit by the guy. Why she got hit by Patrick Bergen, right? Because he looks at it. He goes, oh, what's that? So that means that Before that, that score hasn't healed, right? And it still looked like there's like a, there's like a blood thing, it's like a scab.

That means that she got the entire house ready. She had all of this. So this entire thing then of her traveling. Happened in like 10 days. It happened. This was basically couldn't have been more than two weeks. So Massachusetts to Iowa, that was a six hour bus drive. That was a six hour.

That was a six hour bus drive. And then for her to get all this stuff to get the house fixed up, for her to meet this guy, all of this stuff, this had to have taken place in the time to where she would still have a scar on her head. And it just, there's just too much story in there for that. It just doesn't make any sense to me. But so, there you go. Very fair points.

Very fair. I also think the psychotic husband who clearly has manufactured grudges against whoever, wouldn't he be mad at the boat captain? You've killed my wife? Why didn't you check the weather, you motherfucker? Like, how does that guy live more than 12 hours? Next, picky net. Why flush the ring?

Just keep the ring. Keep the ring or throw the ring in the ocean. You swam. Like, it makes two, that doesn't make any sense. Like, the ring's not going to flush, Julia. Like, just get rid of the ring. How about flushing the toilet like six times to make sure the ring flush? Why not just put in your pocket?

Right. You're going to Cedar Falls, Iowa. Throw out the ring there. Flushing. Or take the ring with you to Cedar Falls, hawk that hoe, and then you can use that towards your new life. You know what I mean? Like, there's a myriad things you could do with the ring.

I wonder for her if it was symbolic. I'm flushing the ring. I don't know. Could have been. Maybe that same thing, you throw the ocean. It's gone. No ring. She plans out this whole escape perfectly.

Everything goes great. And then she's like, yeah, flush the ring. And I won't even check to make sure if you got flush. How did she? get from her house to the bus station? Oh, that's a good, that's a good point. I didn't think about that. Cab?

The cab, the police would have known the cab went to her house. Did she check the cab dispatch? I mean, if she walked, if she walked, how far was it? Was it like a one hour walk to the bus station? And that time. They're looking for her at that point? They're looking for it at that point. Yeah, it's true.

That's fun. Why did she dress like a man to go see her blind grandmother? Because she didn't want anybody to know. because remember he comes at the same time. So I thought that at the same time, they explained it in the sentence because the lady goes, she hasn't had any visitors in six months and all of a sudden. And then he goes, a young woman.

Now, if it had been, yes, a young woman, then he knows for sure, right? And she goes, no, a young man, but it doesn't matter because he's so crazy. He still wants to know who visited the mother. So she didn't want people to even know that it was her at all coming to see. But he already moved, he moved nursing homes for her, though. Or she moved nursing home. So technically, she shouldn't be worried that he would even know where she was. That's true.

I don't remember how in the world that he found out the new nursing home. I think because he brought the people. He offered the people the 10 grand. Yeah. At this point, he's in Batman. Doesn't add up. Right. Also, what kind of leave of absence did he take from work?

He's this high-powered whatever. And he's just like, hey, so I'll be back in like four weeks. Where are you going? Tell you later. He's got all these accounts. He's doing phone calls. There's no cell phones back then. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show?

Of course. It probably better that way. You probably could explain some things. Also, I have... Would you go all-black cast? You could. But I go a different way. I'd wrap this up in the American Psycho universe.

Oh, okay. I would wrap this up in the American Cycle universe. This guy is one of Patrick Bateman's friends that you see in that movie. But they know each other. They know each other. This guy, because, like, all of those, if you read any of the Brett Easton-Ellis stuff, it's all wrapped up. It's all, like, you know, the rules of attraction is like, so I'd wrap. I make this, because those guys are all, like, on the surface seem to be regular investment banker guys, but then they have all of these seedy passes.

This is one of Patrick Bateman's friends from American Cycle doing crazy shit because they're all really crazy. probably in answerable questions how long did did a mullet guy and Laura date post murder in the house he's dead give it like what three more weeks not even that dog

like you if I'm Can we just be friends? Yeah if I'm mulled guy don't send them more than pies over here you got some shit with you you know what I mean like I'm cool I met you think about it because think about the wound

so I've known you it's got to be some days. I already had to fight your ex and save your life. This dude put it on my ass. Nah, man. You got too much shit with you. My wife always gets mad that that guy

got knocked out by the pistol whip, but then just kind of woke up right after everything went down. And she's like, oh, wait, some help you were. Thanks. Thanks for waking up after the shooting. I have a question for you. You said earlier in the podcast

that you would commit a murder. If the actual Julia Roberts would have been in this today, Julia Roberts, if the actual Julia Roberts would have been in this same situation of that time, would you have gone through this in order to date her and be with her? To be mom, man? Yeah, in 1991? Yes.

Yeah. I would have been like totally cool with the Pistowhip. I got through this. Hey, you want to go to the movies today? Did, so LeBron had a big, there was a whole Versa Clymer thing with him when he was in Miami. Was he inspired by this movie? How did he find out about the Versa Climber? Was he watching sleeping with him?

the enemy. Could have been. But like, what's that machine? That guy looks like he's getting a great workout. Right. He's got a lot of endurance to hunt people down and all of that stuff. It takes a leak and it keeps on ticking. Did she inherit all the husband's stuff because she was technically still

alive so they never got divorced? That question just lobotomized me. Because I think that one of the mistakes of this movie is the five five months later scene where they do the graphic five months later and now she has the biggest the biggest house in Cedar Falls, Iowa

because she's inherited all this guy's money and now she's donating a new wing for the school and she's setting down roots in Cedar Falls with all her millions. Or she's making, she's creating a house for battered women. Oh yeah. And she's doing, she's, she's, now she's a part of the solution. Damn. I guess. but isn't it illegal to fake your death? Did she officially fake her death?

Is the police really cracking down on that one with her when it's clear? Yeah, when it's clear. She's got witnesses, all that stuff. She's like, look, I was going to die unless I got away from this guy. So can I get my inheritance, though? Right. Yeah, she probably got the bread. That's good.

But knowing this guy, he probably had something crazy in his will or something. But I don't know. That's a good one. I'd never even thought about it. I have one more. This is a Massachusetts one. this guy, I don't know where they intended this to be in Cape Cod. It was just like the quote unquote Cape Cod.

They might have been trying to think maybe situate or whatever, but regardless, this guy's going to work in Boston. But then he's coming home to this house, which by Cape Cod, Cape Cod could be an hour and a half, could be two hours, 15 minute, that drive back and forth. Just didn't sit right with me for New England geography. Cape Cod is a long drive. Cape Cod is that close?

Cape Cod's not that close. It's a fucking hike to go from downtown. If he's going to downtown Boston Financial District, it's like, all right, I'm going to leave. I'm going to be back. He's not back to like 8.30. So I didn't see that. They're just cheating.

I mean, we have geography cheats all the time. You know what this movie was missing? What? A Cape Cod baseball league scene. Oh, yeah. And he accuses her of thinking one of the pictures of Samson. One of the pictures is hot or something like a Cape Cod baseball league. Or one of the pictures is like, hey, Laura, what's happening?

And he's like, what? What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Oh, good question. It's either going to be the Versa climber or the Versa climber or the Versa climber or the half-eaten apple from the bus scene. Solid. I was going to say the statue that was from. their wedding that he ends up throwing through the window. Right. So he could then climb through

and stand on the bottom to go Laura! That's actually good. Who won the movie? I always struggle with these, man. But you got to go Julia Roberts won the movie. You got to go, Julia. There's a case for the villain just because

he's one of the best villains we've ever had in these movies. But I think you could also say the hockey player look might have won. because you have mullet man with the beard. But then you have Patrick Bergen also looks like a hockey part in this movie.

He's got this big, this big, big, thick mustache with like kind of like almost like its own kind of fluffy mull on the top. And if you go back and you watch the NHL network and they're showing playoff games from like 90, 91, these were the haircuts all over the place and the look. And I don't know if like the director was a hockey fan

or if this was all just a coincidence. He looks like the one guy because there was a weird thing that used to happen at some point when hockey was still a part of my sports knowledge is there always be one hockey player that wouldn't wear his helmet. Like there was a guy was remember the one guy who didn't have the helmet

on. I forgot what he had to think played for everybody, but he still was playing without a helmet. He didn't have a helmet on. This is true, by the way. People are going to be like very bullshit. You know, a guy playing with a helmet. The villain guy would be that guy without the helmet. He would be the guy without the helmet. You had the bushy top up top. Craig McTavish, wasn't it? Craig McTavish was the guy.

That's the guy I'm thinking of. Former Brow. Yeah. He's the Craig McTavish of this. It's not to say McTavish, I hope you're okay somewhere, and you're not doing his stuff, but this guy is kind of like that. And he looked like he was probably, what, six, three, six, four?

That's good size for a hockey player. You know what I mean? I agree, Julie Roberts won the movie because if you can become the seventh grossest movie movie of 1991 with this plot and this many holes in a movie, you've really done something. But on the other hand,

this movie survived for 30 years, and it's still incredibly rewatchable. So if they remade this all, Blackcast, who's Julie Roberts? Right now. So if they remade it all black cast. Right now. They're making it. They're in production right now. Scheduled to release 10 months from now. It's probably

Zendaya. Oh, that's a great call. Yeah, it's probably Zendaya. Is she too young, though? How old is she now? She might be a little too young. She might be a little too young, but then you just got to wait to make the movie. Because she's when she, I think she's like 22 or 23. Yeah, because if she's

in danger, I'm completely invested. Right. So you wanted to probably be more, you probably wanted to be more around her. She's like, I don't know, 25, 26, but you wait for her because she's the one where people go, oh my God, Zendaya's in danger. Even on Euphoria when she's,

if she had those scenes near the end of the first season with the drug dealers when it started, even like, oh, my God, don't hurt her. Yeah. I know this is just a television show, but, oh, producer Craig points out, Julie Roberts, 24 in this movie. Zendaya's 24 right now.

There you go. You can do it. You can do it. Zendaya works. You'd have Zendaya do it. He's the husband. That's the toughest part because the thing with the husband is, I'm not going to lie. No real star, like no Michael B. Jordan type is going to want to be the husband.

They're not going to play that part. So like that, that's, it probably would take me more. It's got to be a no-name guy. Got to be a no-name guy. But so it, so I got, I'd have to think about that because you're not going to give that to Johnth and Iron or Michael B. Jordan or Yaya or any of those guys. not going to do that wrong.

Who's the new boyfriend? That's a good one. Like Jermaine Fowler. Do you know who that is? Yeah, like, Germain Fowler, remind me who that is. You ever see Sorry to Bother You?

Did you ever see that one? Okay, so remember his friend that he has the argument with where he goes, his best friend in that movie, Jermaine Fowler, he's playing Eddie's son in, in, coming to America too. Like, Jermaine Fowler,

any good-natured young brother could like kind of pull that off. I would, if I was casting, I'll cast your main follower in that row. And where does she go? That's a good question. Because it's not Cedar Falls, Iowa. It's not Cedar Falls. Maybe she goes to like Lederah or Ballwood Hills.

Nah, I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just talking to, she goes. Louisiana? I know. Louisiana. She goes, yeah, she can go to Louisiana, but it's got to be a smaller town because she can't, like, end up. The really, the way to make the movie trite is that she goes from like Cape Cod to like Atlanta.

Then, you know what I mean? Then that's kind of the way to go. But it needs to be like, maybe like Gary, Indiana. That's not as pot. It's too poppin than Gary. I don't know where she goes. I don't know. I would say there's even odds that this movie comes out in the next two and a half years.

And by the way, if they got Sendea for it, it would make $175 billion. It would be a huge deal. I don't know if we even can go to the movie theaters anymore. But if it was like HBO Max or Netflix or something, that would be a thing. I'm trying to think of, oh, I know where it's. she goes. Easy. She goes to Austin. Austin, Texas. She goes to Austin. She relocates to Austin. Austin is a place that people from L.A. go and they act like they've gone. They act like people from L.A. go to Austin. And they go, they feel like they're better because they've moved to Austin.

Austin's a beautiful place. Austin is the, I like Austin. I love Austin. I'm saying that's where the people from L.A. go when they're sick of L.A. They go to Austin. So she'll go to Austin. life again. I like it. All right, make this movie happen. Van Lathen, we can hear you higher learning, which is being supersized this month. Yeah, with Rachel Lindsay. Go check it out. Supersized higher learning. We're going to give you a higher learning on Wednesday. We're going to give you an interview-based show. The first one is amazing and hilarious. We have Bawa. Bawa is funny as hell. And next week, we have Keith Stansfield. So we have some really, really great guests. All right, cool. Thanks for being under your luncheons. Always been.