The Rewatchables - ‘Teen Wolf’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

Episode Date: August 6, 2020

It’s a full moon, and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt howl into their microphones after they rewatch the 1985 fantasy comedy ‘Teen Wolf’ starring Michael J. Fox, James Hampton, and Susan Ursitti. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rewatchables is brought to you by Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network where we're debuting a new podcast next week. Ten questions with Kyle Brandt. That's the title, right? That's the title. Yeah. What day is it premiering? August 12th next Wednesday.

Wednesday, August 12th. Who's the first guest? Aaron Rogers of the Green Bay Packers. There you go. Subscribe now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Coming up, it doesn't matter how you play the game. It's whether you win or lose. And even that doesn't make all that much of a difference.

Teen Wolf is next. Hello. Michael J. Fox. He's got style. Uh, right. He's got class. Looking for someone in particular? Not you.

He's got hair all over his body. I'm going through Jesus. There's nothing different about you. Michael J. Fox is a... Whoa! In team's clothing. Teen Wolf, Redded PG, now playing at a theater near you. All right, our friend Kyle Brandt is here from the NFL network and from 10 questions with Kyle Brand.

He's wanted to be on the rewatchables. He sent me a list of five movies, and then I texted him back, and I was like, what about Teen Wolf? Because it's a 35th anniversary. It is, in my opinion, a top, like, five or six 80s movie. It's held up astonishingly well and terrible at the same time. And I wrote this in my book, and I'm going to start here. This is what I wrote in 2009. Most people mistakenly think it's a werewolf comedy.

No, it's a thinking man's basketball movie. The premise of a superstar taking over the team monopolizing the ball, hero ball is what became the narrative on the internet years and years later with Kobe Bryant and some others. And then in the end of the movie, Scott Howard, realizes he doesn't need to be the wolf. What he needs to be is a good teammate. He needs to be a leader. He needs the team to come together, and it's a microcosm of how good basketball really is. Do you think they intended that when they made this movie in 1985? I don't think there was anywhere near that sophistication bill. I don't think that the teen black Mamba storyline that you've created

went through their heads at all. It might understand if I'm following your thinking then that Chubby hitting the big shot against the dragons was kind of like Kobe trusting our test to hit the three against the Celtics. You have to embrace the team. Right. Or, you know, more famously, Michael Jordan, game five, 1991 finals, Phil Jackson going, who's open, who's open? It's Paxon, hits Pax and Paxon shoots them to MJ's first title. In my basketball book, I did a whole thing about Kobe and how Teen Wolf was the movie for the Kobe experience, right, where he vacillated between the Scott Howard Kobe and then Teen Wolf Kobe, the 81 point Kobe, the get out of you guys are all props in my movie.

And in this movie, when the Teen Wolf experience really takes off, and at one point, he's stealing the ball from one of his own teammates. And those guys are just like, we're winning, but this sucks. This was kind of the crux of the NBA superstar issue, right? We saw it with Jordan. We saw it with Kobe, with Iverson. It's like if you can get teammates to buy in. into the superstar thing,

but if they're not totally about it, it's going to fall apart. And it almost falls apart here. It doesn't, they end up putting in the title. It's very close. I think that stealing the ball from the teammate is one of my favorite moments

on all the basketball moments in this. That, if you just close your eyes and pretend that Scott is Kobe, you can see him taking the ball from Smush Parker or Chris Mim. Either one of those guys is right there in the line of fire. And Bill, like,

I don't even think you necessarily need the wolf in this movie. It's a basketball movie. I feel like the wolf is mostly a metaphor for controlling your emotions and being who you are. Right. People think it's an 80s high school movie. It's a werewolf movie. No, it's actually a pure sports movie.

The problem is people get thrown off by the just horrific basketball in the movie. That's also weirdly enjoyable. Like, Michael J. Fox, they're pretty open about it if you do the research. Had it really played basketball before. I don't know if you could tell from the dribbling with his head down and the fact that they had to loop a lot of his plays over it again and things like that. But they're building around basically him and Chubby, who goes on to bigger fame in Peewee's big adventure.

But this is the foundation of a league championship team in the world of the Teen Wolf universe. It's a little unrealistic. It's highly unrealistic. And Bill, I know you've written for years about how you've always wanted to be a sports consultants on movie sets to ensure integrity. When you watch Scott Howard play, what is the... is his greatest sin as a basketball player? What's the one that just makes you want to go ice-pick in your own eyes the most? Well, there's the rampant traveling, his complete misunderstanding of

chubby the same thing, which is that you don't get five, six steps before you get to decide what to do. As a coach, I think I would be the most upset at the jumping into my teammates' arms after we've scored a basket as the other team is getting a fast break lap. Maybe he would tone them back. Yeah, maybe we're just trying to get back. But, you know, he basically in the final game turns into a John Stockton, Steve Nash type of point card. He's really putting on a clinic. They're running high screens. There's things in this movie that the NBA eventually adopts. I don't know if it was because the teen wolf or because they, you know, is a coincidence. But the high screens at the top, the point guard coming off, the roll. It's all things we're seeing now.

You could argue it starts in 1985 with this movie. I think it does. Chubby starts setting up at the elbow. And he gets like those Bill Cartwright meat hooks out and starts setting some mean picks. I do think I see the Stockton comparison. But that would be if John Stockton stared. And I don't mean glance, like stared at his right hand as he was dribbling. It's not subtle in any way.

And also John Stockton, when he shot free throws, does a push-handed jump shot from the free throw line. That is an unbelievably, like, ghastly basketball aesthetic when he's shooting the jump free throw because you might say, well, he's Michael J. Fox. He's short, you know, whatever. This is a starting point guard on a varsity basketball team and what appears to be a very large public high school. Nobody in the right mind would shoot the jump shot free throw. Well, you do it if you're like my daughter when she was six and learning how to play basketball. That's how she shot because she was like three foot nine. But I think when you become a...

Yeah, when you become a fully formed adult, maybe. So there was no one on set to step in and say, hold on, hold on, Mike, let's do one more. Let's work on your form for five minutes. Everybody take a smoke break. Mike, just come outside with me in the parking lot. We're going to bend your knees a little bit. You know, like Magic tried to do with Shaq. He had so many of those tutors.

There was no one who could teach Michael J. Fox to do a decent free throw form or they just didn't have time. I think there was a two-week crash course. I think they were so excited to get him in the movie. We covered some of this in the back to the future pod, but this is 1985. this comes out right after Back to the Future. And he's also on one of the five biggest shows on TV. He's a massive star. So I think their thinking was we'll work around the basketball.

Now, I had Rob Blow on my podcast last month, talk about Youngblood, which he had never played hockey, but they put him through this six-week course. And he's pretty believable. I think it's really hard to teach somebody how to play basketball. I would say, what do you think if you're going to rank the sports, you only had two weeks to teach somebody a sport, what's the hardest one to pull up? Because I would say hockey, just if you didn't know how to skate, but I think basketball would be second. Well, I look at another comp. Like in Major League, Dorn, played by Corbyn Burnson, they say that he's a 300 hitter. And his swing

sucks. It looks nothing like a 300 hitter, but it's sort of palatable. It's not as bad as Marty McFly's free throw. So, listen, football, you're all in pads and helmets and cut away. I think basketball is unbelievably hard. Like if you, never mind even a movie, if you just want to see like if a friend of yours has any athletic ability, just go shoot a couple of hoops for like 30 seconds in the driveway and you'll know immediately.

Even before he shoots, just pass it to him. And you can know immediately because people get nervous around that ball. I think basketball way harder than some of the other sports. Well, the guy I feel really bad for on Scott Howard's team is number 45 who puts together, you know, we hear about big game James, James, James Worthy, Game 7.

Clyde Frazier in the Willis Reed game. The unsung heroes, the guys that, even though they were on a team of the better guy, but they just came through in the biggest way in the biggest moments. Number 45 is all over the place. He's Bill Russell on the defensive end. They show four different blocks in the final game,

two of which are looped for some reason. They thought we would have noticed that it was the exact same block. And then he's got putbacks. He's got a little nice little touch around the basket. And no claim at all. We don't even know what the character's name is. I think it's a show.

Bill, this speaks to how well you know the movie because you're just throwing around jersey numbers with no description of the player, no nothing. You're referring to 45 as if Wayne Gretzky is 99. This is the guy with red hair, right? He's got a red curly hair, though. This is the only guy who's blocking shots. When you watch the final basketball scene,

there's one guy just protecting the rim. he's just on an island because obviously Scott Howard's guy is just, it's a layup line because he's busy jumping into the arms of chubby after every basket. And 45's just there protecting the thing. But he's there. There's another guy number 33 who ends up in Camp I Me Love. Quintan is in. Let the fun begin.

That's 33. And then Doug Savant from Melrose Place. Oh, yeah. That's true. He's the one who gets a little feisty with Scott Howard, a couple of. times. Big time. Why do they make him the star? Because he has a character's name. Why isn't he blocking all the shots in the winter? I don't know why 45 gets all the run. He turns into Mecca Ocalfour, like in the final, in the dragons. There's no lines or anything.

So there's an astonishing amount of research on this movie. I was really blown away. I couldn't believe how much was out there. And the director, who I think his name was Rod Daniels, or Rod Daniel, who's now deceased. He said they filmed. the basketball stuff for about an hour and it's sealed in some vault somewhere and he said it's a pretty embarrassing hour of basketball action. So I think that's why

you have some looped you know, there's one, there's two different Michael J. Fox's fast breaks in this movie that I think they show a total of seven or eight times. One is like a give and go and then he does a layup and it kind of spins in

at toilet bowls in and it happens three different times. And then there's another behind the the backer that they show. But in the research, apparently Michael J. Fox was like, why don't we just freelance, we'll play a scrimmage? And everyone decided that was a bad idea. So every play in this game is rehearsed.

So it's like, all right, Mick, you're going to close line Michael J. Fox here. And then they would do that, have the camera on the court, do it that way. So it was not like, I don't know, above the rim, where above the rim, they're freelancing the Rucker Park scenes. I kept trying to tell myself to your point that if they went with this and the final cut and an editor and a studio and everything approved this,

it must be the best they have. They must have tried and like, look, this is all we got. This one thing here, we got the miracle pulled out of his ass and does it around the back pass. Let's use that because that was a crazy moment that we actually got Mike to pull this off.

The rest of the stuff that the director's referring to, if that's what they use, like what are they hiding? It's got to be. It has to be 10 times worse. It's got to be dark. So there's this whole era with sports movies where there's a lot of glitches, a lot of mistakes.

Just a lot of things they tried to get away with. And sports movies basically the longest yard, 1974. That's the first great sports movie. Then Rocky hits Bad News Bears. And then it just becomes a wave for the next 10 to 12 years. Nobody making these movies realizes there's a moment. coming with cable and VHS and Blu-ray and streaming where we're going to watch Teen Wolf 50 times and just start picking it apart.

Like, oh, my God, they're in the same thing. Bad news bears in Breaking Training, which is a classic. Kelly, it's like a three-in-in-game. Kelly Leak bats four times. Like, you have no idea where he is in the order. He's just coming up over and over again. He's batting second and he's batting sixth. But there's a lot of stuff like that.

it was just the way it went back then. I think probably around Major League, that was when they started to realize we got to actually maybe be a little more accurate. But I still believe I should be the sports movie consultant for all sports movies. You should, because Bill, the Kelly League thing is a perfect example. It's one thing if you have some actors

who weren't good athletes, and that's tough. There's not a lot you can do about that. But there's things that have nothing to do with their athletic ability like the Kelly League thing. Or at one point in Teen Wolf, they start a new game, they have the tip off, Scott gets the ball and his closed line

six seconds into the game and he goes to the free throw line. Like what kind of bonus are they in here? That is nothing to do with Michael J. Fox. That's someone in the editing who said,

put Marty or put Marty, I call him Marty. Let's put him on the line six seconds of the basketball and that makes no sense. That's on the production. My friend Adam Carolla, he filmed a box of movie

called The Hammer that he wrote, directed with my friend Hinch. And I wrote and started with my friend Hitch. And they got a director for it who was a really good director

well acclaimed, but didn't know anything about boxing. And the first day when they were about to do a boxing scene, the director said, okay, why don't you put on these mitts? He called the boxing glove mitts and Kroll was like, oh, no. And just kind of new. But I think this happens over and over again. Rarely do you have somebody running a sports movie

who actually really understands sports, right? It's maybe somebody who has a casual sense of it, but not. And we've seen this happen in football movies. I mean, there's been, it's usually, the crime of football movies or some of the football scenes, even like the Friday Night Lights pilot where they recover the onside, this is the TV show, they recover the onside kick. And then the next play, because I was just watching a couple weeks ago, smash Williams, it's like a wheel route for 20 yards.

And then the next play, Saracen goes back to his own 25 to throw a Hail Mary bomb. It's like, how did you guys lose 40 yards? What happened? But this happens over and over again, drives me crazy. I think then the duties are twofold of the sports movie consultant. There's one where it's like, that's not the way the game works. Like, that's not the rules. You don't go to the free throw line six seconds into the game.

But then also a crucial one is just, listen, that would never fucking happen. Like, that's an impossible to happen. Like, I know you've spent a lot of time on the Derek Vineyard slam dunk. Like, that would never happen. You've got to step in there. It goes by the rules. You can dunk it. But Derek Vineyard from American History X is not doing a reverse jam in the streetball game.

that's when you need to step in. I had Ed Norton on my podcast and I had to bring it up. I couldn't not bring it up and I think he was bummed out. And I was just like, look, it has to come up. Like, why do the reverse? Just have him go up for, like, the one hand jam is unrealistic, but not completely, ridiculously unrealistic. Yeah, he goes up off two feet.

Reverse. Like, NBA players would have trouble doing that. They just, Hollywood can't resist. He hangs on the rim, but it loses you. How much of the audience does that moment lose? And a very, very serious heavy movie, you find yourself laughing out loud at the basketball scene of all things, and to bring it back to Team Wolf, Bill,

I think in the first minute of the first game to start the film, Mick, the asshole from the Dragons, does a two-handed flush jam right over the top lake. He's Charles Barkley on the Sixers. And all of a sudden, I'm like, all right, this is what kind of movie we're in for? Let's go. It's wonderful. The basketball scene at the end is the heart of this movie.

And I think, so going backwards because I'm older than you. So mid-80s, cable really hits about 1982 range. And HBO, most people have it. I'm going to say by 83, 84. But there's not like a shitload of rewatchable movies at that point. And I'm going to say summer 84 and then 85 and then 86, they're just rerunning, you know, the crudgeoning. Parati kid, just one of the guys, Teen Wolf, over and over again.

And the best thing about Teen Wolf is the second half of the movie is way better than the first half. So you're coming in after either he's about to become the wolf or he just became the wolf. And you're like, this is great. This is going to be a great 45 minutes. And it was just on all the time. And I think that's how it got the momentum that it got. It just was exceedingly rewatchable.

And as bad as the basketball is, it's really fun. The win in the end montage. I know. We might as well do this now. Let's do it. The Mount Rushmore of greatest, cheesiest 80s sports movies, montages. Obviously, you're the best, Joe Esposito, Karate Kid. I beat him around.

Win in the end. Mark Safen. We'll get to him later for team. I haven't lived the last of Saifan. Mark Saifan, not a lot of hits for Mark. this didn't launch just a shitload of Grammys this was about it

No easy way out Robert Teper Rocky 4 There's no safe way home Absolutely angry gear shifts From Belvoir A lot of gear shifts 80 80 90 gear shifts I don't know how many

How many gears that car had All that And then the underrated one Go on Over the top Slice Stallone Sammy Hagar winner takes it all.

Arm wrestling montage. Arm wrestling tournament. Four or five minutes of just arm wrestling, grunting, and Sammy Hagar belted it out. So that's my top four. I don't know if I'm missing anything. The Sammy Hagar won. It's such a nice little treat there at the end.

Thank you. Watching a montage of arm wrestling, it's not like you can mix in jump shots, layups, defense. It's just guys moving their hand 10 inches, one after another, and you go from Burley to Hulke. The only thing I would put in

is maybe to just double down on Rocky 4 with training montage. The mountain? I mean, that's purely instrumental, yeah. Because people think there's a training montage in Siberia that Rocky does. No, there's actually two with like a 10-second intermission

when Adrian shows up, but there's two songs there, and they're both fantastic. They're beyond inspirational. I know. I listen to those on the Pelican. I like it. Yeah, if you go on YouTube,

different people who are working out, or doing like CrossFit videos or whatever. Like everybody kind of simples us. The only other one I would throw in for this category. What do you got? Top Gun Beach Volleyball. Loggins. Whatever that.

No, but there was that when they're playing the beach volleyball, it's like, was it Loggins? It was like playing with the boys. Yeah, playing with the boys. It was also Kenny Loggitt, of course, the danger zone. But he doubled out on Top Gun and playing with the boys. Girls play two. It was progressive.

It was everything. And it was poor goose and a t-shirt, because you didn't have big enough muscle. So that's a great call. That should be an honorable mention. Yeah, honorable. I can't bump any of the four in there, but that's honorable mention. So here's how this movie got made, because I want to go to the categories because there's a lot to cover.

Sure. Movie called Valley Girl, 1983. Nick Cage's breakout movie. High school movies set in the Valley becomes like a surprise success. Okay. And everybody looks at that and goes. oh, these costs no money and they have a high upside and people will go see them on dates. How can we make these?

So they hire this guy, Jeff Loeb. The studio says, we want to make a comedy that will cost about a million bucks and take three weeks to film. And it's set in a high school. Those are our instructions. This guy comes back with Teen Wolf. That's his answer. He wrote another movie, wrote another movie with Matthew Wiseman that you might have heard of, Commando.

Oh, shit. Same year. Teen Wolf Commando. This dude. I don't know why he's not talked about as one of the great. So anyway. This is the guy who wrote, slitting a little girl's throat is like cutting warm butter.

He wrote that line? He wrote that. Obviously, obviously a genius. So this movie had a $1.2 million budget. Okay. And made $80 million. Mission accomplished.

And it catches. it catches Fox, back to the future comes out, becomes not only the biggest movie in 1985, but one of the three or four biggest movies of the whole decade. And then this was like the follow-up movie right after, which happens sometimes in Hollywood, where you just strike oil with this little movie that you made, and then the star of it has some other movie come out that's a monster.

And then your little movie comes out, and everybody just go see that. I call it the Sleeping with the enemy corollary. Julie Roberts, pretty woman comes out. And people are like, what's her next one? I'm in. And it's like, how about she has to escape from her abusive husband?

Who chases her husband? Right. I watched the trailer for Teen Wolf, just to get ready for this. And it's full on starring Michael J. Fox from Back to the Future. And you can just hear the honey in the narrator's voice. He's so proud that they got to the Back to the Future Kid.

And this is one of these movies, Bill, that I've probably seen it 30 times, but I haven't seen it in maybe 15 years, like as a parent or anything, the crossover and connective tissue with Back to the Future is so strong. It's basically like Scott Howard is like Scotty McFly. It's just if Marty McFly had gotten,

instead of getting a time machine and became a werewolf, it would be this movie. There's a lot in common. Well, the crossover is stronger than you think because his house in this movie is on the same street as George McFly's house Back to the Future.

They basically filmed everything there. Yeah. I heard that and then I heard also that the house from old school were like Frank the Tank and it's also on the same street. Like it's basically movie row right there. I think who knows what's a myth, but I think that is on the same street. Well, we have a lot to cover because there's a shitload happening here. We're going to take a break. Then we're doing the categories.

Okay, everybody expects us to have an anime podcast. Michael Peters, Justin Charity. At long last, are they podcasting once again about. anime. No. I'm Justin Charity. And I'm Micah Peters. Honestly, this podcast might turn out to be like the Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence movie Life, except neither of us is in prison, and in fact, we're not even taping in the same

location. But we will be talking a lot about the millennial life, you know, music, video games, strange stuff from the dark corners of the internet that piques our interest. People think this is going to be, oh, a little topic. A, oh, what's topic B? Oh, little, you know, chit-chat. No, every time you tune into this podcast, we are going to lock you into a room for 45 minutes, and we are going to do criticism. We are going to get to the bottom of every Scooby-Doo mystery that the discourse produces for us each week. Mark my words.

Man, that was a lot. But anyway, we are excited about it. We are excited. We're excited. We're super excited. I'm Justin Charity. And I'm Micah Peters. And this is sound only.

We're back on August 11th. Catch us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Let's go. Okay, Teen Wolf, most rewatchable scene. I wrote down six. Feel free to chip an ant at the end. First one is, I'm lumping these together. Scott goes to buy a beer and his eyes turn red.

I'd like a cake of beer, please. You don't see? Yeah, uh, how much is that? You're an ID sonny. You little bastard just won't give up, will you? Listen, no ID, no goddamn beer. Can't you get that through your thick skull? Follow by styles going van surfing.

Don't worry about a thing. We got everything under control. You do your thing and I will do mine. Go up a guy! And that's really when Stiles, when we realize we're on something special here with Stiles, where Stiles is early on, he's like, I'm going for it, just be ready. And you're like, all right, I'm not, whatever, Stiles. But then he keeps climbing a ladder.

And by the end of this, I mean, I'm sure you know the, who's the guy in the Bucks, Greg White? In the 2008, the guy changed his name to Stiles, White. Because he loved Stiles so much. And it was like, I kind of see it. Stiles was that great. I understand why he would do that. Can I tell you, Bill, that Stiles is my favorite part of Teen Wolf. I love the character.

I love the performance. He has this vibe of like a Mike Demone, but a nicer, sweeter, non-impregnating D'emone. And every time he's on screen, he lights up, he has an arc. He does drama. I fucking love Stiles. Like, I would go to war for Stiles. It's one of those performances that you wonder why that guy didn't go on to be in 10 more movies.

Because he's like, I think part of the problem is he's like 35 when he films the movie, no style was 18. That might have been, you might have been too old. All right, so I got that scene. The second one is when Scott turns into the wolf at home. An explanation is probably long overdue. An explanation. Jesus Christ, Dad, an explanation.

Look at me. Look at you. It's not as bad as it looked. Wait a minute, wait a minute, dad. I mean, you knew about this? You knew about this and you didn't tell me? I was hoping I wouldn't have to. Sometimes it skips a generation.

I would just say, I saw this movie in the theater visiting my dad, Massachusetts. When the door opens and the dad was there was kind of a moment in the theater. Like people are like, and like it was like really funny. It was like shocking. You didn't see it coming. You think you're worried that you're seeing it through Scott. Scott's just turned into a werewolf. You're singing through his eyes, and then the door opens,

and his dad's older, cute werewolf. It was like, wow, what a wrinkle. Yeah, he's just like a gray e-walk. He kind of looks like Gwildor from the Masters of the Universe movie, and you think he's just going to give him a lecture or something. But I love that scene, too. I have such a problem with the way Mr. Howard handles his son's transformation and how he's so patronizingly nonchalant about it.

What's the deal with Mr. Howard? Like he says, well, I was hoping he would skip a generation. It didn't. And the morning after his son finds out what happens to his body, the hardware man greets him with a cup of hot cocoa to make him feel better about the mental breakdown he's having. I have a big problem, I think as a parent, with the way Mr. Howard handles the whole thing.

I think he has a lot of guilt after he mauled his wife to death at night at 3 in the morning and they just never dressed in the movie. But we never find out what happened to Mrs. Howard. She's just kind of not there. No, we saw flashes of it with Scott in the closet with Booth, when he like claws the shit out of her back. And I imagine Mr. H on a full moon one night, like that was just a rap.

It was it. It was dead. He goes, he talks to Scott. Like at one point he gets pissed about Scott doing the Wolfmobile. And he's sitting here lecturing him and he's like, you got to get a hold of the son. As if his son has an acne problem or something.

He's like, dude, he's a fucking wolf. Why don't you teach him the way to the forest? He's freaking out a little bit. He wrote on top of his band. Chill out, Mr. Howard. He's pissing me off. He's like, dad, you killed my mother. next one teen wolf's first game in the aftermath when he turns into the wolf during during a tussle for the ball that it somehow involves six people no whistle it just goes on and on and on and then a wolf comes out of it everybody's stunned he kind of he travels again when if scott howards a hundred travels in the movie travels backwards starts dribbling feels it out and then goes full court does an amazing

dunk. The crowd, instead of running out of the gym, or I don't know what your reaction would be if you were at a game or a high school game or the lead guy turned into a werewolf. But within a couple seconds, they're into it. And the coach goes, all right, let's play a little ball here. He's completely like, what a good wrinkle. Like, maybe we have a chance to win. And then that's followed by multiple loop basketball shots. And then a huge party at the diner after. and then the school newspaper cut to the next morning school newspaper and the headline says

can he make it two in a row like it's a sports story it's like I think the main story is that you have a werewolf at your school the whole sequence is incredible so I'm making that all one thing anything to add there I just think part of the charm of this movie

is how accepting everyone is of the werewolf like I think if that happened you would call the police or you would call an ambulance or if you were armed like you may actually open fire It's really terrifying. And to your point, the coach is like,

fucking hey, let's play some ball. We got a baller now. He's like, clear out high screen for the wolf that I didn't know we had it. He had a little bit ago. Is isolation on the hairy kid. Let's go. Next scene, this is a special one just for Coach Finstock, who's a comedic genius. The two comedic geniuses of the mid-80s in movies were Coach Finstock and the little

brother and just one of the guys, Billy Jacoby. Oh, incredible. I love that guy. Those two are the two funniest people in any movie other than maybe Eddie Murphy. So he rattles off. He's in the locker room. He feels the team. There's a little dissension now.

The wolf's getting all the credit. And he first he throws, it doesn't matter how he play the game. It's whether you win or lose. And even that doesn't make that much of a difference. It doesn't matter how you play the game. It's whether you win or lose. And even that doesn't make all that much difference. Hey, guys, how about a celebration, huh?

Unbelievable. Absolute high school year book. Put on a pillow. Yeah. Put on a pillow. put it in your book. Then feels Scott Howard drifting a little and gives him the, there are three rules that I live by. There's three rules that I live by.

Never get less than 12 hour sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that. Everything else is cream cheese. Great game there, Scottie. And everything else is cream cheese. Unbelievable.

I can't believe, first of all, that somebody wrote that, that they nailed the three things. He nails it like, this is like, here's my meeting in life. And that's when Coach Finstock became immortal. It's all making sense now that the gentleman who wrote that line also went on to write Commando. Because that's great, great dialogue. And he nails every scene of it. Coach Finstock has this, like, acting crutch that I think works really well from him. He's always chewing the shit out of his gum.

He's always got the gum going. And like, as a performer, you look for devices if you're real method. I think he chewed gum for months preparing for that role. Because Bobby Finn, that little monologue about the three things, it might be the funniest 30 seconds in the movie. It's great. Next one is the prom scene, which is just bizarre and involves Scott getting sucker punch by Mick,

the 30-year-old bad guy, taking it a little personal. It was a complete sucker punch, getting up and scratching the guy's shirt off. And then everybody like, oh, my God, Scott, what'd you do? And it's like, what about, it was like watching hockey when the enforcer starts the thing and the ref only sees the second thing. But everybody saw the sucker punch. I don't know why Scott took so much heat for that.

I enjoy that whole scene, though. I think if anything, he did Mick a favor by exposing his abs to the entire dance. Like, Mick, Mick's ripped down there. And that looks really cool. It's what they call in international politics a proportionate response, like in, like, nuke talk. Like, Mick punched him in the face. And all he did was Rip is dumb rented. shirt. And then all of a sudden the principal's like, you're out of here. It's like,

well, did you see what fucking Mick just did? I could get his head off. And Booth, even Booth's down on him. I don't know why she was down. It's like your date just got sucker punch. Maybe be mad at the other guy, you know. Anyway, that, that whole scene is hilarious. And then the, uh, my pick for most rewatchable scene is the entire basketball game. They're down 22 to 3. Fox stroll. Fox strolls in. I don't know where he was. I don't I don't know why he couldn't have been there for the beginning of the game. And the coach does, oh, hey, where's the wolf? And he's like, ah, we don't need the wolf this time.

I got this. Back to the court, chubby, wide open from about 25. It's not quite hard in distance, but it's definitely an NBA three. And Mick goes, shoot it, fat boy. He just heaves it up, makes it kick in Mark Saif and win in the end. And then we're just off on a journey. And then all leading to the winning free throws, which in my opinion, Scott starts a little late there with four seconds left, maybe calling the play. He was really cutting it close.

Because he was having dialogue with Mick mid-play about what was going to happen. Let's go to the chase here, dude. High screen gets the foul. Mick finally fouls out. Somehow he's allowed to stand under the basket, which is the only time that's ever happened in organized basketball history. And sinks to two free throws right in front of his face. Game over. That's my pick.

What's your pick for most rewatchable? The only thing, look, I think the only omission is, I really, really like the party scene. It makes me wish that I was a high schooler in 1985. I guess I could have put it under what's age the best, but like 80s high school parties, there's about 15 kegs. Every extra has a joint in their mouth.

And I don't know, Bill, in my high school parties, we like sat around and drank Captain Morgan and played Mario Kart. They have an MC and they have games, and they have a whole, like, ritual where everyone's going to make out in the closet. Like, I actually love that scene

from start to finish. And I think Stiles shines in. I don't think that's a coincidence. Stiles is the emcee of the party. It's a great, great party. I had that for what stage is the best, but you're right. It's like, it's New Year's Eve

and he's Dick Clark. Yeah. And he's having Rocket New Year's Eve. There's games. He's forcing people to potentially hook up. There's two people writhing on the floor. Who are the people writhing? I don't know, but like,

Even Pamela is into it, and she's not into anything, and she thinks it's funny. But Stiles runs the whole show when he wants the crowd to be quiet. They're quiet when he wants to cheer. He's like a one-man show, and I just sit back and just let him cook. It was so good. Booth was pretty frisky. She lies about what name she has to get Scott in the closet. He kind of goes half wolf and her back of her shirt and she's all scratched.

comes back the next day. She was kind of like, man, we have something. I think she liked it. It was not a good foundation for a relationship. I'm not sure what she was thinking. That was a crazy party, though. And I don't know what it was about

this specific stretch of 80s movies parties where every time anyone had a party, it was the single craziest fucking party. Because like 16 candles was like that. Can't buy me love. Every party in that. It's always... It wasn't like the parties that actually happened in the 80s where you're just in somebody's

basement with like beers you stole from the guy's dad and somebody's outside sneaking out for cigarettes and the Eagles is playing. It is true that the party is kind of relatable in that sense. It's not in this mansion like in weird science. Not a Jake Ryan's house. And I think just to tie a bow on it with Boof at that party, the entire 80s teen comedy genre is about people just wanting to get laid. But I, I'd be hard pressed to find any character who's hornier than Booth is in this movie. Like any minute she can grab Scott and pull him in it. She wants it so bad, including when he's ripping her sweater and scratching her,

it looks like bloody down the back. I mean, that's not even rough. That's like, that's brutal. It's, it was actually alarming. I had it in what stage the worst. I think if you're making it 35 years later, I'm positive. Maybe they're not. Maybe she's just the back of the sweater gets slightly ripped.

I don't know if they would go for the giant. It was like Freddie Krober. Yeah, what happens when Bufko's home? And her mom's like, hey, how was the party tonight? And she's like, don't come in. I have giant wolf scratches on my back. Like, what? Why are you wearing Hulk Hogan's shirt, honey?

What's the one on the back? No, don't look, don't look. And then she doesn't need makeup. She's put a sweater on the next day. But it's excessive. It is. Yeah, they went too far. All right.

What's age the best? Mention the sports montage, the best 80s sports movie montages. I really enjoy the wolf howl when he finally has sex with Pamela or whatever happens in the school. I think it's an incredible performance by her. Certainly, for me, as a teenager in the 80s, like that whole scene.

But to throw in the howl I thought was a choice and it actually kind of worked. Is that how the wolf got off? Was that his orgasm? Was that our interpretation? I think it's a, climactic howl. And not only this, I mean, Bill, look,

I said I'm looking at it as a parent again, but I find there's so many things that are wrong about that scene, like not the least of which that I think it crosses species in the lovemaking. It's probably Scott's first time. And then when Rusty Thorne is out in the parking lot,

which I had that for picking Nits as the cheesiest character name of all time, they also rub it in his face because you know that guy who made you piss your pants back in the day? Now his son is having sex in your school with the hottest girl in the school and he's going to howl about it. It's just going to dunk on you. It's a crazy moment.

Yeah, I guess there are some bestiality things we have to reckon with. I try not to think about it. It's unclear because he can kind of go half wolf or full wolf. I'm not sure what he was. She wants a full wolf and I believe she gets it. I mean, she knows exactly what you. And then she's like, you are an animal.

And it's definitely Scott's first time. So, I mean, that's all fucked up. And I Listen, Bill, I'm going to full disclosure. I had a for Apex Mountain, bestiality. I think that was the moment. Apex moment, bestiality. I can't think of one bigger, but I defy anyone listening to do it.

Well, what's interesting is she goes back to humans right away. Goes back to human. Because she's like back with Mick after that. So there's something unseemly about it. Yeah, it's weird. I think if this was like a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, maybe we explore the, the, the, the wolf sexual piece of it a little bit more. I have a whole werewolf thing later.

I'm saving. What's age the best, coach Finstock. This quote, look, Boof, I can't help it if the whole town has gone wolf crazy. That's said with a straight face. Styles we mentioned. And then this is really the textbook definition of what's age the best. The closing credits right before they happen. So he spurns Pamela, goes to Booth, they kiss.

Then he goes, he hugs his dad. As this is happening, there's an extra in the stands behind them who stands up and their pants fall down. People think it's a man, but actually, I remember writing about this in a mailbag 15 years ago. And then maybe a couple years later, somebody investigated it. And it was actually a woman whose pants fell down. And then you see them kind of panic and try to pull their...

pants up because they're sitting during the whole celebration, obviously unbuckled to, you know, loosen up a little, but then forgetting their, and it just stays in the movie. They didn't edit it out. So you have this closing scene of the three of them hugging, the three stars, and over their right shoulders, somebody with their pants down. And nobody was like, hey, we should use a different camera angle. I think it takes the best. It has aged well. There's a strange similarity to, I don't know if you're aware with Michael J. Fox at the end of Back to the Future three, there's a thing on the internet where the little kid, it's Doc Brown's kids, and he says, and these are my boys! And the little kid in the background is repeatedly pointing towards his,

like, his pelvis area. Like, maybe he's got to go to the bathroom or something, but everyone makes all these jokes about the kid, you know, pointing at his pelvis in the background of the shot. So it's a similar joke line there. Yeah. And you got to say, it's very strange. And Elizabeth's shoes there and he's there. But it's in the closing moments of the movie again with one of those things. Jesus. Any other, I would say, the best friend. you? No, those are great. I have Coach Finstock as a Woods Age the Best. He's going to win many awards in this podcast. What's age the worst? Michael J. Fox's basketball ability. It ages a little worse every year. This was the quote from Director Rod Daniel. Somewhere in a vault is about an

hour of the most embarrassing sports footage ever taken. I want, remember when Geraldo Rivera went and opened Al Capone's vaults? We need to do that with the Teen Wolf Sports footage. If there's worse footage of what we saw, where is it? And can we open the vault? Another one stage is the worst. There's like a really random, inexplicable. He comes home and his dad's playing basketball in the driveway with Booth.

And this is after her back's been clawed. And they're having this game. And it's like they both took ecstasy. They're both just laughing. Nobody's taking it out to the free throw line. And they're just kind of laughing and throwing the ball in. Like, how did this happen? Does Mr. Howard like Booth?

Like, what's going on? Bill, I couldn't agree more. I think it's the strangest scene in the movie because not only does Scott come home on this weird sort of nitrous fest basketball game where, by the way, there's a lot of backing in going on at low post and it's physical. The dynamic, even the dialogue, is Booth's like,

oh, we were just talking, we're just chatting, as if they were caught doing something that they're not supposed to be doing. And there's other, I don't know what's going out with Mr. Howard and Booth, but there's other parts in the movie where Mr. Howard's like, you know, why don't you go out with Boof, Scott?

And he's like, Dad, I don't know. Have you seen Pamela? That's why I don't go out with Boof? Why don't you go out with Boof? It gets a little watch listy with Mr. Howard in a few moments. And I think that's the biggest one. Well, think about what you just said

and I actually agreed with. You said that was the weirdest scene in this movie. This is a movie that somebody turns into a werewolf during a basketball game. Somebody has sex. with a werewolf who howls and five other strange things that happen. And I agree with you. I think the driveway scene is it's just inexplicable.

I don't know what happened. But it makes me think everyone involved in this movie had never seen a sport before. That's got to be it. I don't think they'd seen it. I don't think they knew anything about it. And I don't know what even purpose that scene serves in moving along the plot. There wasn't enough basketball in this movie. I guess the only thing that serves built is we find out where Scott gets his game from.

because we've seen Mr. H throw up a couple shots and it's rough. I mean, it's really Apple does not fall far from the tree, but the ball does from the back. Morewood's stage the worst, really bad basketball edits as we discussed. The worst edited basketball movie ever is a fish that saved Pittsburgh,

which has the legendary edit of Driftwood, the tall blonde guy, takes a shot from the foul line and then is underneath the basket as it's going in. They just didn't even notice. So I would say that's a 10 out of 10 that movie.

Teen Wolf's like an 8. The Wolf's special effects, pretty good for 1985. But I think if you're making this movie in 2020, I think the scene in the bathroom when he's turning into the wolf, I think, is a little more seamless, right? Yeah. Well, I think it's also that scene in the mirror is an unapologetic rip-off of The Terminator, which came out the year before. And there's this scene where Arnold is cutting his eye out and he's in a mirror

and his face is all mechanical. And it's almost the same exact scene with Scott, like note for note almost. But as a kid, I liked it. Now, of course, I laughed at it, but it was fine. It was the 80s. You almost want them to be bad when you look back.

Agree. The ages of the lead actors, Michael J. Fox was 23 when they made this movie. Stiles was 27. Jerry Levine was the actor. Chubby was 26. How old do you think Mick was? Like 53?

he's so old. Shockingly, he was only 27, apparently. Dude, if you put Mick in a sweater and a little gray in his sideburns, he could have played Scott's dad in this movie. Like, easily, no one about it. He was played by Mark Arnold. Another one's aged the worst. There are no black people in this movie.

And the only time we see one is when he became the wolf. Go on. And there's this black guy walking down the hallway and the wolf's like, hey, let's break dance. Yep. This was borderline sketchy in 1985. It is not age well. It is a classic what's age is the worst.

It's right on the nose. It's six seconds long. And in the hallway, immediately there's breakdancing. I don't think there's cardboard on the floor, but it jumped out to me as well. Oh, Jesus, that's the one moment in the whole movie. Especially, I mean, we're talking about a sports movie,

basketball, and public high school. It struck me as wrong as well. I mentioned, or you mentioned the high school party. I just had for a what's age of the world. worst. I still don't know what the two people were doing on the floor. What were they writhing in? Maybe whipped cream or something or mayonnaise. It seemed to be some sort of white creamy substance, something gross. But I don't get the game either. It was kind of borderline eyes wide shut. Another what's age the worst is just a hard thing to explain unless you're from the generation.

This was an 80s trope. You made the joke earlier about how he picks Boof over Pamela and in real life, anyone speaking Pamela. This happens over and over again in 80s movies because you had Secret Admireer, see Thomas Howell, doesn't realize Lori Laughlin's in love with him the whole movie, and he's all he wants to do is be with Kelly Preston, who is the best-looking actress of the 80s,

and eventually, and now he has to be Lori Laughlin. Some kind of wonderful, you'd marry Stuart Masterson is the short-haired chauffeur, but the guy's in love with Leah Thompson, who's a legend and then realizes at the end, it was an over and over again, this 80s theme of, I see this object of affection that's so hot,

and I don't see what's right in front of me. And they just made that over and over and over again, and this was right in the wheelhouse of it. They made that a million times, and I also think that Can't Buy Me Love storyline was just like this, where someone gets cool all of a sudden by artificial means and then forgets who they are

and they have someone dragging him back. My problem with that is that, like, correct me if I'm wrong, Bill. Was Scott even that much of an asshole as a wolf? Like, he got this hot girl, he's in the play, he's scoring 40 points a night. It's not like you can't find me love where they literally shit on the guy's house.

Right. Ronald Miller took a bad turn and lost touch with himself. Scott's just having a good time. He's been beat up. He lost his mom, and like, he just let the guy have some basketball on it and make out a little bit. Boof's just constantly bringing him down. I don't see the crime he committed.

Boof is definitely an homage to Adrian Balboa, the all-time wet blanket sports movie character. It's just like you had to have her in there. Another, what stage is the worst. I'm going to read you some of the lyrics to win in the end by Mark Saifan. This is how it starts. This is really incredible. I was down to zero, still an unsung hero, waiting for my ship to come to shore. I stood empty-handed like a seagull stranded.

watching all the other seagulls soar. It's like, all right, we get it, dude. Rough times. No, he's going to keep going. I was slowly losing hope, twisting frayed ends of the rope in a suicidal fantasy. I was going to extremes, losing sight of all my dreams again. I never thought I'd win. I was blinded by the pain, running wild through the rain.

In a parody of ecstasy, I was inches from the egg. fingers clinging to the ledge again. I never thought I'd win. Win in the end! What is that? What's he talking about? I heard seagulls. He works blue.

He uses profanity, and we're talking about basketball, right? That's... Is this a song about, like, thinking about suicide? Because that's my interpretation. Yeah, it's kind of a suicide poem combined with a Shell Silverstein short story and seagulls.

I never heard the lyrics for. I never paid it. attention, like, those are terrible. I hadn't either. I just was like, I got to see what these lyrics are. And I was like, oh, my God. So my guess is like, they just like the title and the chorus of when in the end, they're like, well, people won't listen to the lyrics, not realizing. But you do. I was losing hope, twisting freight ends of the rope, but a suicidal fantasy. And Michael J. Fox is dribbling around. I don't know what they would think with that. Any other what's aged the worst for you? Well, it's a perfect segue. The soundtrack of this movie is

absolutely terrible. Let me tell what I mean. In the end, it's fun. But part of the fun about 80s high school movies is like, you know, give me some Duran Duran. They could have had hungry like the wolves. It would have been the perfect song to use. If I turn on Breakfast Club, I'm getting simple minds.

If I turn on 15 candles, I'm getting Spandoah Ballet. In this movie, I guess it was maybe a budget thing, but the music is absolutely awful during even the earlier montages. There's none of that fun Boingo Boingo gives us the weird science single in the middle of the movie, and I missed that. I think it was a budget thing because as we covered at the top,

they were just trying to make this movie for a million dollars and get the hell out of there. I have it coming later and have Fassinger, I'll just do it now. They filmed this entire movie in 21 days. That's incredible. God bless them. I don't, in all the rewatchables we've done,

we've done almost 140. I never remember seeing anything less than like 28. To do an entire one hour, 40 minute movie in 21 days is like impossible. And it's not people in a warehouse. We got tons of extras. We got action. We have basketball. We have special effects.

We've wolf makeup. There's wolf makeup. That just tells me to build it. Like everything we're seen in this movie, it was one take, two at the most that we got to move on. This was raw. You got to move. Casting what ifs. I don't really have any except for the actor who played the lecturers Mr. Howard.

Yeah. James Hampton. Mm-hmm. He read for Coach Finstock and did a read with Fox. Fox was like, can you read for my father? He saw something in him that fell fatherly and that's how he became the debt. So there you go. Best That Guy, A.K. the Joey Pants Award.

This is a loaded category. We mentioned Doug Savant from Melrose Place, aka the gay guy in Melrose Place, who was a punchline for two years and then actually started getting good plots. What's they were like, oh, we should actually put him in the show. Cort McCown, A.K. number 33, aka the Camp Bottom Me Love guy. Chubby from Pee Wee's Big Adventure. And then my dark course for this category,

the guy who ran the play went on to become Professor Nicholson on 902 and O, Brandon's freshman year at Cal University, who was married to Lucinda Nicholson, and Brandon ended up in a love triangle and a whole thing, that guy. So I'm giving it to him because that's like a definition of that guy. It's a great that guy.

And yet I would only counter that with Chubby, You mentioned he's Francis Buxton in Peeby's Big Adventure, but he also has one of the great lines of the 80s when he stands up at the Angels game and said, hey, it's Enrico Palazzo. Oh, my, that's great call. You're right, you're right. That's who it is.

Great call. Okay, we'll give it to him. De Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for overacting. I say this with love, respect, and admiration. It's got to be Stiles. He dials it up a couple times. But it's the character, but he's still dialing it up.

Why, who would you give it to? Well, I guess, you know, Pamela on stage, if you go two layers deep, when she's actually acting, you man burn my house and murder me. But I think it would be ironic to give it to the acting teacher, but I have him in another category. So, listen, Stiles, my problem with him is he wasn't nominated next to out of Africa that year for Best Supporting Actor.

I love Stiles. All right, we'll give it to the professor then. Okay. The Dionne Waiters Award, this is a rap. Coach Finstock, one of the greatest characters, probably in any sports movie. Interesting, not totally an actor in real life. He was a behind the scenes guy. Created and produced the Days and Knights of Molly Dodd, the Slap Maxwell story,

and co-created Buffalo Bill. The last two were Dabney Coleman ones, was an EP on the Bob Newhart show. And then his daughter, Jamie Tarsis. his name was Jay Tarsus. His daughter, Jamie Tarsus, became this kind of renowned TV executive who flamed out and was like this famous Hollywood story. But like she ran,

was one of the people running NBC, ran ABC, and it was coach Finstock's daughter. So there you go. Heavy minutes for a mark for Dion Waiters for Finstock, though, right? A lot of screen time. Too much? See, I love...

Who would you give it to then? No part. What do you think? I love the theater feature. We need to see the wolf. So wolf out, huh? Wolf up, wolf it, whatever you do. Pronto, let me go. Well, Mr. Lolly, uh, well, I've been doing some thinking and I decided that I'd rather play the part as me. Whoa.

Well, I'll play it. Play it as myself. Now that, that wouldn't be theater, but it... See, no one wants to see you. Every time he's in there, he fully commits... Excuse me, wolf, man, just wolf out, wolf out, fronto, Amigo. His lines kill me. I don't think that he's overacting.

I think he's Deon Waiters. He's got like two or three scenes, and clearly he is having some sort of relationship with Pamela on the side. That character has depth. So you're saying Finstock ineligible for Deon? Too many minutes. He might be right, because he is in the last 20 minutes of the movie.

A lot. How can I still not figure out my own podcast at this point? Part of the charm. All right. Recasting couch. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm getting, I'm getting rid of whoever the hell played Booth. I just feel like we got to go. You got to go. Lori Laughan, I know she was filming Secret of Myer at the time, but I think double duty. You also could have talked to an Elizabeth shoe, maybe darken the hair to separate her from Karate Kid, but I feel like we needed somebody on that level instead of who we had. You agree with that one?

Yeah, I watched this movie with my wife who had never seen it. In the first five minutes, she's going, okay, that's the good guy, that's the bad guy. and they show Boof, and she goes, is that Michael J. Fox's mom? I go, no. This is his girlfriend figure. We got a tough haircut. Tough, tough haircut. It's a tough helmet.

Yeah, it really is. I don't know what they were thinking, but it's bad. The recasted suggestion that I would have, and I think this is not only poetic, I think it's like justice is served. I would really love to see in the Scott Howard role, Eric Stoltz, and I think it would be poetic.

You know, Mike got, Eric Stoltz lost the Martin McFly gig because he couldn't do the comedy and I would see if Michael J. Fox would lose the Scott Howard gig because he couldn't do a layup. I bet Stoltz could have done it better and that would have been so poetic in the end if they switched roles like that.

Interesting. Red-headed Wolf too. They would have had to take the special effects to another thing. I like that one. That's a good idea. Half-Fast internet research. Michael J. Fox's body double for the basketball scenes was a guy named

Jeff Glosser, who was a college basketball part at the time. Couldn't find out where. I think it was loyal to Merrimount. I think it might have been Merrimount right before that Hank Gathers Bo Kimball era, which is actually kind of real. I think it's Merrimount. So he was in makeup for 12 hours a day

because they're cramming this into a 21-day shoot. So with the basketball, when they needed the wolf, he just has to kind of be there. So conflicting reports, but there seems to be a feeling that Michael J. Fox hated this movie. Yeah.

And that was why he didn't want to be in the sequel. But then there was a whole, they had a reunion of the cast in 2012 for some reason at one of the L8 theaters and a whole Q&A. And they talked about how they had like FaceTimed with him or something that night. And he said to wish everybody well. So I don't know what to believe on that. Michael J. Fox, such a good guy. I find it hard to believe he would have hated anything. So I'm going to strike that one.

this is a good one because I remember when this happened. In 2004, there was a New York sports website. Can't remember the name. Had an internet hoax that Mike Piazza was the guy who played Mick. And this became a real thing. And even on IMDB.com, somebody changed it to Mike Piazza. And it was a thing that happened for a while. And then everybody realized that that was the case.

Those things get legs. It's like Paul from the Wonder Years is Marilyn Manson and the guy in the lobby at diehard is Huey Lewis and other Michael J. Fox attachment. Those things get legs. And I love that someone hacked IMDB. That's a good day's work right there to prove that. Great job by them. Jerry Levine played Stiles. Yep. He said he gets recognized daily or at least did earlier this decade. He said most people probably don't know what my real name is. Obviously it's Jerry, but people always call me Stiles. you could ask someone, hey, what's the name of the character

that Tom Cruise plays in the movie Jerry McGuire and they might not even know. But everybody knows who Stiles is. God damn right. Great job on him. Mark Arnold, who played Mick, was also playing somebody on

the soap opera Santa Barbara at the time, which Robin Wright was also on. His contract was expiring. He wanted to be able to promote Teen Wolf. So he convinced the producers to have him killed on the show. I don't think the promotion works. Yeah, I don't think this, because this was the highlight of his career, so that didn't work.

The jersey, worn by Michael J. Fox, was sold to a Beverly Hills pawn shop for $30,000. I don't know what happened to it. I looked it up to see if I could find. I couldn't. There was a Playboy Playmate of the month from July 1982, Linda Weissmire, who was in your favorite high school party scene. She was the one, the jello down the shirt. And then the last thing, this one stunned me. There was one scene in the script that was not shot.

where Teen Wolf went on Johnny Carson. Then he went on the Tonight Show as the wolf? He went on the Tonight Show as the wolf, and they decided for expenses and just to make it easier, they scrapped it. And I got to say, I'm disappointed. I read that. I was like, oh, man, that would have been cool

to see the wolf on Johnny Carson. Right next to Ed McMahon, just talking about basketball. That'd be awesome. So you're a wolf, and Ed's like chortling next to him. And then styles were five t-shirts that had slogans on them. Life sucks, then you die.

Abnoxious, the movie. What are you looking at, Dick Nose, Drunken State, Florida, and Wolf Buddy? Those were his five T-shirts. I think they should all come back. Apex Mountain, Michael J. Fox. You could argue this after Back to the Future, the combo of that, this could have been as Apex Mountain. I still think it's back to the future, but. Oh, it's back to the future, I think,

and it's run away. Yeah, and it's just, it's so interesting that they were shot side by side. I read a quote by Fox when he was shooting this, and they were shooting Back to Future with Eric Stoltz. He said, here I am playing a werewolf from Steven Spielberg's directing a movie down the street. What am I doing with my career? And then we know what happened on that part.

Stoltz went heavy emo, Marty McFly, and Mike came right back in. Also Apex Mountain. Every other single person in the movie? Mm-hmm. I don't feel like it got better for anybody who had a long speaking part, except for Doug Savant. You would say Melrose Place or Desperate House was for him. Van Surfing, I think this was the apex.

My guess is somebody probably tragically died right afterwards in real life trying to van surf and then it was quickly banned. Yeah, it was like the program that when the players lie down in the middle of the street and let the cars drive by them and then they cut that from the DVD or the video release because some kids actually tried and got run over by cars. Yeah. I mean, it's,

Stiles and Scott make it look really easy to drive on top of the Wolfmobile past the jack-in-the-box. So I'm sure people tried it. They had a pair, I was disappointed to find out there was some holds and restraints on those guys on the van.

What? Yeah, yeah. Couldn't believe it. I'm going to make the case for Apex Mountain for werewolves. Make it. I'm interested. Go ahead.

What do you got? So you're coming off. There's a whole werewolf run in the early 80s. We have Wolfen in 1981, the Howling, Howling 2, Full Moon High, the Company of Wolves, Silver Bullet, and then you'll also have an American Werewolf in London, which is a pretty big movie. Then you have Michael Jackson with the Thriller video, which is the biggest, most important video ever made. And then Teen Wolf, and Thriller and Teen Wolf, that's within a few months of each other. I don't think it got better for werewolves.

the only answer in response is a really annoying one i think where i'm going to say twilight aren't you i'm i'm obligated to say it team jacob team edward that that kid running around with the werewolf thing millions of young people reading those books i don't think they were bigger than thriller but thriller wasn't so much about a werewolf like the twilight shit was really big i hate that i'm saying this bill because i don't watch the twilights or read them but they were they were big they were really big i have to be honest My plan was to make the case and then have you make the case for Twilight so I didn't have to. And it works.

And you just made the Twilight case. Picking Nets. Yeah. We covered this already, but the first one I had was, why would Booth like Scott after he left huge claw marks on her back? We'll never have an answer. Because she likes it, I guess. But it was a lot. All right.

This is a big one. wouldn't the Wolf's High School have been deluged with reporters from all over the place, media, like not just local media, national media. I think every game is an event. If you think like LeBron James Jr., Brani, who's playing 14 minutes a game for Sierra Canyon, those games are on ESPN Plus, I'm guessing a werewolf basketball player would have been a semi-big deal. Yeah, there's one scene of four little kids getting an autograph from Scott as he enters the gym. But this is CNN, setting up the trucks in the parking lot.

And there's a fun little dovetail off of that bill that I wish they would have gone this route if they had more time. Not only the media attention that Scott would have got, but the recruiting attention of who's trying to get a wolf. And I think the coach in that moment where he says, so where's the wolf? There's a subtext there of he's been making calls and he's been on the phone with John Thompson Beheim is that you gotta see this wolf come out to the school I just you got and it's probably lining his pockets a little bit I find myself wondering who would have landed the wolf like where would he would have want to go um based on his character I think my answers I came up with were I think Scott and his father I think they would have

maybe really gravitated towards somebody like a Jimmy Valvano like a very likable person you know like good character but the wolf like he's He was going to Tarkhanian, someone who's just out to win and bringing the best players possible. The recruiting battle for the wolf would have been a fascinating little storyline if they had more time and money.

I like your idea of Finstock taking money under the table, a.k.a. the coach from He Got Game. Oh, yeah. Like working angles. Where was this set you think? What state are we in in this movie? It's one of those amorphous... I think it's Nebraska.

Somewhere in the Howard Kitchen, there's a little Cornhuskers memento. hanging like on the fridge. You got to really look for it. I think it's Middle America. I actually think it's Nebraska. So he wouldn't have gone to Nebraska. It wasn't a basketball hotbed.

No, but that makes me think Big Ten, though. Big Ten or Big Twelve, right? Bobby Knight would have loved the wolf. I mean, I think... I don't see. I think the opposite. I don't think Bobby Knight would have put up with the wolf. I don't think he would have...

You need someone who's easy going? Mike, who would let you break the rules. What's so Nebraska? What's there in that? Like, Missouri? Kansas, obviously, Jayhawks. Kansas would have been a good one.

I could also see Danny Crum definitely buttering up Coach Finstock with some money, maybe even Mr. Howard, maybe even paying off Booth a little bit to bring him to Louisville. Because remember, Purvis Ellison won the title in 1986

while also with a fresh set of braces, even though he was like 20. Oh, is the 80s red flag of maybe somebody who's getting paid under the table and the fresh set of braces at age 20. But yeah, maybe Louisville or he goes traditional, like University of Wisconsin.

It kind of reminds him of Nebraska. I think Scott and the Wolf have different choices. Like I see The Wolf as a full-on ACC. Cameron Crazes is invading it or taunting his name. He drops 40 on him. I see him in the ACC, but Scott is a big-10 Middle America guy. another one we covered why was mickle out to stand under the basket what would happen in real life

that happened if we're going to nitpick the wolf seems like he's about six feet but then when they go to michael j fox and the wolf for the speaking scenes he's still five-foot-three michael j fox i don't think they ever figured out the height difference with that because you think like if it's if the the wolf is going to stay the same height, then he's going to look like mugsy bogs. Like him dunking would be amazing. He'd be six feet in the air on dunks. But the wolf seems like he's like 6-2-6-3.

Yeah, he's considerably taller. It's jarring when they make the change. And Bill, my brain is still on a pretzel. I don't know if he could go to someplace with Wisconsin because we don't see the wolf shoot. We don't see the wolf perimeter game. I don't know if the wolf can hit a jumper. Correct me if I'm wrong.

We never see a clip of the wolf hitting a shot, right? It's only dunks and blocks and stuff, right? You're right. It might be a more wide open fast break game. You and LV might have been the right call. I think Tarkhanian just lets them loose, up and down style. The shark and the wolf put it on a t-shirt. Oh, man.

He's just going. Why did the dog whistle in the hardware store not bother Scott's dad, but it bothered Scott? Settled nitpick, but look for it. And then their buddy Lewis. Yeah, this is weird. Who we should have put in what stage is the worst, because just a terrible. terribly forgettable performance, a guy who's never seen again. And it's weird.

He's like the third guy. He brings nothing to the table. There's nothing fun about him. And then when he becomes the wolf just immediately turns on Scott, not support, not wolf supportive at all. And then it's kind of never seen again in the movie. And I didn't really understand that character. It strikes me as something where he must have had scenes that were cut

because he plays big in the great by the beer keg storyline. But then he's just a drop at the end about, you know, Lewis is scared of you. And that's it. He never speaks again. And it's completely forgetable, extraneous character. Good-looking kid, too. I don't know what he came with that guy.

Like, I thought he looks like a young star, like a young, like the kid who's an ET. But I don't know. He disappears right in the middle of the movie. And then the ending, he walks by the smoking hot Pamela to go for the hug with Boof. Yep. I don't know. I think he at least, I think maybe he goes in for a hug. I don't think he disses Pamela like that.

You have any of their nitpicks? Yeah. I mean, he does basically hit Pamela with like an early. Campbell's stiff arm. It's really harsh for Scott Howard. Just a couple, why at the dance bill are Mick and Pamela dressed for a funeral? It's a very strange outfit choice. She has a black dress. He has a full dark suit as if someone died. It's jarring compared to what everyone else is around them. And what was going on? Why wasn't Mick ever at his own high school? He's like conceivable a big man on campus. Like stay in your own high school. You can't get a cheerleader there? Like

You need to go to this high school? It's true. Also, are there any police in this town at all? There's zero police presence in the movie, despite the van surfing, despite Scott throws a bowling ball clear across the alley and breaks something. And then at one point, Stiles is attempting to stage an armed robbery at the liquor store. Like really intense stuff, not to mention they have a party with like 12 kegs that apparently doesn't get broken up. There's no police in this town. It looks like fun.

No police. And I don't know where this is. There's no black people either. I guess we're in Nebraska. Maybe that part makes sense a little bit. I think it's Nebraska. Not even like the one sheriff who has like the 10 seconds with Scott Howard. Like, hey, we're keeping an eye on your boy.

Something. Best quote, we mentioned all of them. I do like, though, Mick saying, I've handled your kind before. Your mama used to steal chickens out of the backyard. Tolly blew her head off with the shotgun. It's good. Those are fighting words.

Unbelievable moment. One of my favorite moments in the movie and Bill, it's an all-time antagonizing line that he has where you're trying to get under someone's skin. And I wonder if comidus in the Coliseum had looked at Maximus, and instead of going through his whole routine about, they say your wife moaned like, oh, as they rash, if he had just done, you know,

we've dealt with your kind before. I blew off your wife's head with a shotgun when she was stealing rabbits off my backyard. I feel like Maximus would have drawn a sword and attacked him. It's a really an endangiary piece of dialogue. Would you, if Mick was being played by William Zabka, icon 80's bad guy, would Zabka have overpowered this part or was Mick the right guy?

We've no baggage with Mick. We don't really know him. Who would you have picked out of those two? I'm going to go with Mick, and he sticks the landing based on one thing, is that after he delivers the line, and Scott throws the bowling ball clear across the alley. There's a look on Mick's face where he goes like that,

and it's like it should launch a thousand memes. It is the perfect Twitter face, and I love Zapit. Don't get me wrong. I love Billy Z. I like to see Mick here, 51-year-old dark-haired Mick and the jean jacket and the abs. That one moment alone where he does that,

that's my girl, and he goes to blowing your mom set up with a shotgun with the meme look, that to me is on his reel to this day. When he's auditioning for CSI, 5,000, I bet that is still on his reel and it should be. It's gold. It's a great point. Next category is, could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? So, caveat, they made a MTV show Teen Wolf, but it was more like a Twilight show.

It had nothing to do with this. I got to say, this would be pretty interesting in 2020 to redo Teen Wolf with this thing as Guy turns into a werewolf during a game. But all the stuff we mentioned about the media descending on the small town, people talk about werewolves and you could do all these different parallels and I don't know I'm not against like a I think I would give the pilot a chance I'm into it and I think there's a place to go we talked about the recruiting of Scott it's also it's kind of an unanswerable question bill but the last game is the regional final it's not the state championship so it begs the question of what happens to the

beavers in the next round how far do they go down state there's your series like was this just a one-off Or do they lose by 90 points by Omaha East or something in the next round? I don't know. But that's just serious. Well, I think there's scouts in the stands for the next round, and they realize, like, they're only running one play. And the point guard dribbles of this head down. We can stop this.

He can only dribble right, and he's not looking. So just play him to go right. There's also a very controversial storyline that you could have where Pamela is now pregnant, and she has, like, half-wolf babies from their little trist in the dressing room, because, as we know, that was a wildly messed up scene between wolf and woman. And Bill, to add to that, I don't think that Scott had protection in that scene. And so I don't know where that goes genetically, but that would be something to explore, certainly, in the series. It's disgusting.

Well, you think it's 35 years ago. Yeah. So, conceivably, those kids now would be, or the kid, maybe she had a litter. Who knows? Sure. So those kids are down there. They're mid-30s. And if you're doing the Cobra Kai thing for the TV show where it's like we're picking up in real life now, it's Michael J. Fox.

He's the absentee dad. Pamela is raising the kids. We get a better actress. Those kids, maybe the 35-year-old had a kid out of wedlock at age 18. And now that grand kid is in high school. It passes a generation. Oh, yeah, it skips a generation like Mr. Howard said. And he's got the gift.

It's got the gift. That's the experience. It's got kids. Scott's pup. All right. With Pamela. Whoever's listening, give us a commission and make us the sports movie consultants. Probably unanswerable questions.

This has always bothered me with all werewolf movies. Where does the hair go when they go back to being human after they've been the wolf? It's like a switchblade. It just rescinds back into the epidermis. But it doesn't, though, because they leave the hair. There's a hair in the bathroom. He pulls that other one out. So is it just like a whole mess?

down to hair when you go back? How does that work? Well, they start getting real cute with the transformations too. Like when they're about to get up on the van, he goes, hold on a second. Bam, these waves are mine. In a millisecond he's gone from Scott to Full Wolf.

Just a terrible edit. So that hair's coming out fast. And I guess to your point, it disappears just as quickly because when Rusty Thorne's like, let me see your hands right now, the nails just rescind back into the cuticles. Yeah, it's pretty great.

at a teen wolf reunion screening which I mentioned earlier in 2012 an audience member asked the writers if they ever had a proper backstory for Scott Howard's mom because quote as a kid I kind of always thought Mick had shot Scott's mom and that was the insinuation

that one blew me away so is that a real thing that Mick is talking about like they live in Nebraska they probably have wildlife around Did he actually shoot a wolf back in the day? Was it Scott's mom? Because I've wrestled with that question before, too. Here's why I don't think that this is true.

Other than that, it's ridiculous. Why would the mom have had the werewolf gene? Because it's just the dad has it, right? So the mom couldn't have, unless it's one of those things where if you get bitten or clawed by the werewolf, you turn into the werewolf. And then if that's the case, then Boof is going to eventually be a female werewolf. I think that they can smell each other out. I think that maybe there's a scent.

or something in the dating process. There's like a werewolf website for dating. It's like W-Date, it's called. And you can meet other werewulf singles. And I think that's how they met, even though they were no website. Wolfender? So when Fox, the first game,

we mentioned earlier, when he transforms into the wolf and everybody's there, and there's a fucking werewolf playing now. Is this the number one sports movie event ever in the history of Manor? kind that would have been the what the fuck is happening moment in any sports movie. I can think of one right away that's really dark, but if the opening scene of the last

Boy Scott really happened, that would be really, really, really bad. When Billy Blanks gets at halftime and he starts scoring points with the bookies and he pulls a gun out on the field and starts shooting players as he runs, that's obviously wildly violent. But in terms of like the shock waves, I would have to think that a werewolf would be much bigger than that, because we would find that there are supernatural creatures as opposed to just some people got killed. I think the world would be tough to be. I had that. I had that one.

I had the final game in victory with Slice Stallone when the Allies are playing the Nazis and then everybody gets to escape. Just like a great, what a game to have a ticket for you also get to escape. And then Roy Hobbs winning the pen and the natural when he knocks the lights out. What a moment that was. That's massive. That's hugely cinematic. little big league

there's some crazy shit going on that I think would get blogged about a lot in terms of if Air Bud was real I think it would draw some eyeballs and there was a golden receiver playing football yeah but the natural is more beautiful

if we're getting into werewolves you might as well talk dogs and all that shit too the only one I was thinking was Rocky for when the Russians turn on Drago and start rooting for Rocky which is somehow the most unrealistic part of an unrealistic movie. It would have been great to be an American in the crowd

as the Russians start rooting for your guy in Russia. I think that would have been exciting. Next question for probably in answerable. What NBA stars game resembled Teen Wolf's game the most? I had in my column for years in the 2000s, I was always like Baron Davis when he's really going. He has a lot of like his point guard,

you know, the way his handle, but then the way he would explode to the rim on dunks always kind of was a little teen wolfish. I couldn't think of any current guy who had his game. It's got to be like a physical kind of power point guard who's above the rim. And there's not really anybody like that now. Yeah, I think he screams Russ Westbrook,

big dunker. Oh, that's interesting. I like it. It's questionable teammate. What do you think? You're the basketball guy. No, that's good. You're right.

You're right. It's probably Westbrook. Yeah, it's great, too. I'd love to see that. That's a good one. Good call. I'm glad you're here. Thank you.

Last unanswerable question, unless you have any. I had a question that I'd pose to you. Go ahead. Would you, if you, would you put the wolf on your all-time movie basketball player starting five? Yeah. He's in the five? I think from an intimidation factor alone. Mm-hmm.

And what position is he plays? Is he a two or is he bringing the ball up? I think he's a hybrid. I would use him like, Gilber. in the mid-2000s. Maybe he's not your ball handler, but he's kind of a de facto point card. But yeah, so you're talking

all-time basketball team. Does it have to be in a real sports movie? Or is like Woody Harrison and Wetman can't jump eligible? Oh, definitely. Definitely eligible. I'm thinking guys like Jesus, Shuttle's Worth,

neon Bordeaux. Yeah, but those are real NBA players. But they're characters. I would take any character. You know, Chitwood. I like Sidney Dean a little more than Billy Hoyle. I think that the wolf is right on the border. I still don't know if he can shoot.

So I would love to know if he can shoot. But, I mean, there's some good competition for that. It's tough because if we're allowed to use NBA players who were in movies, then you got to get Dr. Jay and Fish that say Pittsburgh. Yeah. You have in fast break, you have Mike Warren and Bernard King. Bernard King was amazing. He throws a no-hitter in that movie.

So I think that you'd almost have to make it so NBA stars were ineligible. So he's with Bowdox and Mike and people like that, and Foghorn Leghorn and like fake non-NBA basketball players. He's in the five, The Wolf. Okay. I think so. Because I think you probably have Woody,

you have Woody Harrelson, you have Teen Wolf and Jimmy Chitwood is probably your offense. and then, you know, above the rim, like Leon's really good and above the rim. Like, he's just deadly from 18 feet. He's wearing jeans. So, just, you know,

maybe not an advanced metrics favorite, but I think like the Spurs would have loved. Intangibles. What was his name of that movie? Tommy Shepard. 18 foot money every time. All right. So the box score of this movie.

This is my last unanswerable question, what the box score was. Oh, yeah, what do you got? I did all the work for this for my basketball books. I'm plagiarizing myself. So it's 22 to 3 when Fox comes back. We see 35 of the 49 points. So I did some projecting.

Fox, 14.6 assist two steals. Number 45 had him down for 10 points, 5 blocks, and at least 15 rebounds. I think it's like a bam out of bio bubble game. you know, like 12, 15, five blocks, incredible PR plus minus, all that stuff. Like Hollinger's writing athletic pieces about him. Fat boy, I think,'s down for five at K. Chubby.

Okay. And then our guy, 33, six points. And then I think Savant probably had a three-point play in there somewhere. He got foul pretty hard. So I think that would be it. I don't know who was putting up the points for the other team. Mick could barely shoot. I mean, Mick was doing like the one-handed broken arm shot.

And Nick runs the point, too, despite being the tallest guy on the floor. And I guess they just did that so we could talk to Scott the whole time. We see Mick do one two-handed dunk, but I don't know where the points are coming from either. No idea. Yeah, that should have been in picking nets. Who won the movie? Listen, for me, I'll quote the words that you said, Jerry Levine. When you think of Teen Wolf, you think of styles.

Everybody knows styles. everybody remembers the t-shirts. He's the classy, wacky best friend with a heart. Michael J. Fox goes on to different things. I'm going with Jerry Levine as the go-to best friend guy. Stiles wins the movie for me. I think you're right. I think when the Tampa Bay guy switched his first name to Stiles,

that kind of cemented it. Yeah, that was big. Now you have me thinking my fictional basketball team. I really think you got to ban NBA players, though. I don't think it's fair to have them in there. So Sidney Dean would count. No, but he was terrible, though. He's dribbling over his head with the, I was always down on Wesley Snipes in that.

I never, I thought, I thought Billy Hoyle's game was so much more. The pure shooter, well, I guess I just like watching Sydney Dean for watchability, but if I'm trying to win games, you would go Hoyle. And then once you take the NBA players out, the talent starts to dry up fast. So I think the answer is emphatically the wolf is in the top five. Well, you know what could count is Matt Nover and Bootchard. because I don't think he actually played in the NBA. He's like a little bird type.

Yeah, Rick Rowe. That could happen. I'd have to think about this some more. Next time you come on, I'll have my five. Hey, this was really fun. I loved how you didn't think that Teen Wolf, that he didn't go Ivy. What Ivy would he have gone to?

He probably would have gone to Penn because they play at the Pellestra, raucous atmosphere, and it's easy to get into. That's my little parting shot at Penn. What an asshole is. I am a complete asshole. I loved it.

Kyle Brand, 10 questions with Kyle Brandt premiering next week. Check it out. This is fun. Say hi to everybody back east. And thanks for coming on. Give me a keg of beer.

Thanks, Bill.