The Rewatchables - ‘The American President’ With Bill Simmons, Amanda Dobbins, and Van Lathan

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Amanda Dobbins, and Van Lathan are calling the organization of the United Brotherhood of It's None of Your Damn Business as they revisit the 1995 film ‘The American President’ starring Michael Douglas, Annette Bening, and Martin Sheen. Directed by Rob Reiner and written by Aaron Sorkin. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Coming up, if I wasn't one step behind you, you'd be the most popular history professor at the University of Wisconsin. American president is next. I'm a single adult. I met a woman who I'd like to see again socially. President, can't just go out on a date. Castle Rock Entertainment presents Michael Douglas.

I'm going to hop out at the flower shop. No hopping, sir. Annette Benning. I'm having dinner at the White House. I'm having lunch at the Kremlin. You know, Rob Reiner film. Dig it, Miss Wade. You're the president's girlfriend.

The American president. She didn't say anything about me. Well, no, sir, but I could pass for a note before study hall. At Theaters Friday. All right, Van Lathan is here. Amanda Dobbins is here. I sent the bat signal out. I wanted to do this movie.

before the election. I knew Amanda loved it. I didn't have to really twist her arm. Sent the bad signal to Van. It's one of my favorite movies. I'm in. It was just a delightful, happy rewatch. And also a trip back to a much simpler time

when we just believed in the president and the president spoke to the people and the idealism and things can all be great and we can all win together. It was just nice to go back there. What was your take, Van, watching? it again. Yeah, like the elegance of it. It all looks so elegant

and aspirational. A beautiful White House, clean, a president with ideals, right? Like, ideals. And then the bad guy that comes in is the guy who's all about politics and all about winning and all about this. He represents

the evil part of sort of America. And man, like, it just seems like we're miles away from. You have the president telling somebody, hey, when we're out of the Oval Office, you know, you can call me by my name. He's humble.

He's humble. And just watching it, it just felt, I don't know, it also made, it took me back to that time. I just, it was really, really, it was almost like therapy watching the movie, like you want to believe in that America that they portray on screen. Amanda, this movie's 25 years old.

Yes. But it feels like it's 75 years old. Is this the most overqualified rom-com of all time? Absolutely. because you don't even realize that it's a rom-com for the first 40 minutes. You know, the first scene is the famous Sork and Walk-in talk, and there are a million political issues, and you are caught up in that,

especially now that simplicity and that fantasy, that liberal ideal of just we all could actually believe in the presidency. It was so interesting to read all the reviews and from the time and see them talk about how much they, like, respected the idea of the presidency. And then it becomes a rom-com in the middle of the Oval Office, quite literally. And it doesn't, I think it would be great without the rom-com. In fact, it was great. It's called The West Wing.

I really recommend that TV show as well. And you can see the seeds of the West Wing from the Walk and Talk to the cast to some of the actual dialogue. You know, proportional response definitely shows up on the West Wing. Yes, I am a total sorkan nerd. But as a romantic comedy, this is like a great screwball 40s love story. It's fantastic. It's funny how kind of flawed and vulnerable they make him as the leader of the free world. You know, with that speech, not the speech, one of his inner circle people when they say like,

oh, we'll just play the lonely widower thing. And he's like hurt. And it's like, oh, man, you've hurt the president's feelings. Brilliant writing. Brilliant writing within the first 10 minutes of the movie, someone who works for him cuts him to his core, and he couldn't be more benevolent about it. He actually turns it around,

don't worry about it, don't do this, but it still is on his mind after it completely defines his character. That's my, that's me to me, the most important indicator of who Andrew Shepard is, is that that's like straight to the core of him,

and he feels sorry for her. He's a compassionate, sort of vulnerable, attentive leader. Well, it also advances the most important part of this story, which is that he's a lawyer. He's a widower, yeah. It's really like a brilliant 30 seconds. And I kept thinking as I watched it,

how Trump would have probably stabbed her with a pencil or something. But that 30 seconds tells you all you need to know about not only his character, but his relationship with the inner circle, right? you. Amanda, Michael Douglas as the president. Where does he rank for you? Number one. Number one. Yes, of course, Bill. Listen, I saw this movie when I was 11 years old, four times in theaters. This was my first movie president. This is my only movie president. I'm telling you, I had the VHS. I took it on sleepovers. I'm not making this up. This is so sad. And I went to all the Reagan-loven households in my neighborhood and was like, would you like to watch this movie? Didn't really understand the actual

larger politics. So he's my first Sorkin president and thus my favorite Sorkin president. And I'm basing that mostly on the final speech and I don't want to step on categories and we'll talk more about that ultimate speech. But I don't think it gets better in terms of presidents laying out their values and also their, you know, their character because it is as we learn in this movie about character in the span of four minutes. It is glorious. I think my Mount Presmore is, let's go. Douglas and American president.

Kevin Klein and Dave. I think he's number one, but go ahead. I have him number one as well. But I, listen, everybody wins in this. I don't want to rank. Okay. Jeff Bridges and the contender is unbelievable. So good.

Oh, my God. He just should have been the president. But he is a real president. Like when he gives. Yeah, he really does seem like he could have just taken over. Right. And then. I loved Hayesbird in 24. Oh, okay.

He was, before the wheels kind of came off that show, he, he, plus it was such an ahead of its time character, but I just loved, he just seemed like he was in charge. And I think those are my four favorites. I'll switch Hayesbert out for somebody. Who would you switch up? Morgan Freeman in Deep Impact. Morgan Freeman and Deep Impact, because he's like, because, you know, he was, he's got the Morgan Freeman-y type of deal, but he was also very stern and he was a

Crisis President. Haysburn 24, I loved, but I got Morgan Freeman in Deep Impact. But Dave, to me, is the quintessential presidential movie. This movie right here is the quintessential White House movie, but Dave is the quintessential president because it shows how a normal guy grows into the ideals of the president. And that's kind of like, it's unique in that way. So you're in on the contender? All three of us love that movie. Oh, I love it. I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember Jeff Bridges. in that role. Can I throw one more fictional president in? Please.

Bill Pullman, an Independence Day. I just, again, apparently I'm, I really believe in a speech at the end. That's kind of a true student of Sorkin, but I think that one's important. It's a good one. It is. I'm trying to think who is the least realistic, worst president we've had in a movie. Because we've had some bad ones, obviously. I should have done some research on this.

Maybe next time we have a president. president movie. Who knows? We'll probably be doing contender for like the 530th rewatch of this episode. But there's been some bad ones over the years. Michael Douglas, just an incredible run he has going here. We talked about a little bit when we did the game a few weeks ago, but I'm just going to give it to you again. Romance in the Stone, Jewel the Nile, Chorus Line, Fatal Traction, Wall Street, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, Falling Down, Disclosure, American President. The dude just ripped off hits. Yeah. Over and over again. Great taste for scripts, characters. What I liked about this character, it's a tiny bit different than all the other characters. Like, first

of all, great president hairdo. It's like he has the side part just looks good. I liked his suits. You know, Michael Douglas has that side where you always expect him to maybe take a run at like one of his AIDS or something just because he's done in so many other movies. He has the sexual background. Right. But in this one, it's removed in 10 minutes. You feel like Samantha Mathis is safe. that he's not going to give her a wink. But he just seems very presidential. But then at the end, taps into the big-ass Michael Douglas speech

and the speech we'll get to later. But really brought it all the table. And I would say this is probably his last great performance because I think he's really good in the game. I don't think that's like a great performance. I think this was a great performance. I think the game is so heavy on the actual plot. he's just existing in this world of chaos that we're we're constantly it's kind of hard to get lost in a performance there

because as an audience you're constantly trying to figure out what's going on the movie's more about the plot device I will say this I think this movie was almost like a little wholesome break that he took because he was becoming Mr. Freaky Man because because he was because of basic instinct and then uh well excuse me fatal attraction then basic instinct, then disclosure, he was starting to become a little freaky daddy. And I think to get back, and they actually mentioned Frank Capra in this movie, to get back to something wholesome and Capra-esque,

I think it was very important for him to do this, and he did it really well. Imagine if this were the first Michael Douglas performance that you saw, which, by the way, was, that was the case for me, and then you go and you see fatal attraction, you see Wall Street. I was like, what is happening? I've probably seen his butt more than anyone else is in cinema, which is great.

Good for you, Michael Douglas, as long as you're comfortable. But it was a real shift because this is a goofy, sweet, sentimental character. He's kind of trying to figure things out. He wears his heart on his sleeve. And that was quite jarring. Yeah, they even, he, it's almost like he wanted the movie where he has the adorable 12-year-old daughter has no moods at all. I don't, this person doesn't exist in real life.

Right. They're completely unmoody. My mom just died, but I'm totally cool with it. I can't have friends over at the White House, but I'm not taking this out on anybody, daughter. I had that in nip-picks for later. But, yeah, she's just perfect. Just a great mood all the time.

Played the trombone. Hey, dad, you're home. I'm just working on the trombone. It's like, who is this? Is this an alien? The only thing they argue about is social studies. Right. Like, that's the only job is that she doesn't like the Constitution.

Imagine if you had a kid, a pre-teen, and your only being. was them was that they didn't enjoy talking about the Constitution. Imagine in real life, she sleeps over within like three dates. I promised the daughter's, the real life daughter is not handling that well. Like, why don't you hang out with your whore? Like she, definitely she's crossing the line and screaming at him within five minutes. I would like to talk more about that in nitpicks, but we'll save it.

Okay, good. We also catch. Annette Benning at just a fantastic point of her career. Great 90s for her. All over the map. She's got a little grifters, postcards from the edge, which you're pro that movie, right, Amanda? Absolutely. I don't remember what guilty by suspicion was.

Regarding Henry, which is now a comedy, you have to get shot in the head to be a good person. Great theme in that movie. We'd have to do that 30-year anniversary. Once you get shot in the head, you're fine. Bugsy Love Affair What was love affair? Is that Warren Beatty?

Yeah, I think that... Is that the remake of an affair to remember? I think it might have been. Didn't go great. Richard the 3rd, the American president, then she does Mars attack, the siege in dreams, ends it with American Beauty.

So she was basically batting 50-50 the whole decade, but had some memorable ones. The highs were enormously high, though. Enormously high. It's one of those things where, I mean, it's a great part. We'll go into casting what ifs.

Who else would have been good? I actually think she's perfect. But it's a really good part. And it could have been a part, you know, when Sharon Stone was trying to remake herself, which she eventually does in casino. But you put Sharon Stone in here as like, oh, this is a different type of whatever.

It's just nice. There's not a lot of well-written female late-30s parts in Hollywood in the mid-90s. I don't know if Sharon Stone works. Sharon Stone is too, like, so the thing about a net, and it's so funny that you said Sharon Stone, because I literally had a 30-minute conversation with myself about whether or not Sharon Stone will work.

Because I'm looking at a, I swear, I'm looking at a list of actresses, and I have some later on for recasting, but they come at her, right? And maybe this is because I'm still thinking of, because remember, if you run Sharon Stone, then basically you're running back the basic instinct squad.

Which is why you can't. You're not going to, you're like, you're running it back and it's going to be hard for you to disassociate. That's the only reason why I've thought about her. I'm like, wouldn't this be a perfect role for Sharon Stone?

But I'm thinking, no, I'm expecting that to be a different movie. The door closes at an oval office and it's going down. Lexi comes in in a cocktail dress, doing disco dancing. Yeah, it goes up the rest. there's cocaine.

It's like, where does cocaine show up? Amanda, do you think Net Benning perfect for this? Or is there somebody else you would have wanted? I think she's great. I think this is a really difficult role because you actually can't slide into the somewhat dubious sexual politics. We can talk a little bit more about this. But she's supposed to be both like extremely accomplished professional woman and she's like fighting for the environment and you're supposed to admire her intellect and you also are supposed to

to admire her as like the heroine of the romantic comedy and she's supposed to be like adorable and she's supposed to you've got to be rooting for them so she can't be threatening even though they are like in a battle they are in a political battle throughout the movie so it's really hard to nail that tone it asks a lot of people and I think Annette Benning manages it in a way that I mean certainly I love Sharon Stone but that would that would be a different movie she's appropriately quirky in the first 50 minutes, but not too quirky. It doesn't go like Zach Brath level. Oh, I'm going to bring this maniac in here and fall in over there.

There is a question of why she's both single and living with her sister that I guess we could cover later, but I'm almost positive. She at least has like an on and off boyfriend at that point. you know, she's probably late 30s. She's successful. She's great looking. She just moved to Washington, though. That's why she's a favorite sister.

I would have like to have like 10 seconds of the sister saying, well, after your engagement fell through her. Just some sort of seed planted. Sure. She says she's been on a lot of first dates. I think we're meant to understand that she's dating. And she also, she's married to her career a little bit. A rom-com staple.

She hasn't really made time. Married to my career. A key rom-com plot. She's really good in this. And it's weird because in the beginning, because I hadn't seen this movie in a few years, in the beginning, I'm like, oh, man, I don't know. And then it was like it fell in a place for me in my head,

probably the 10-minute mark. And then on top of it, unbelievable cast. So Michael J. Fox, Martin Sheen, Samantha Mathis, John Mahoney, Wendy Malek, David Pamer, Anna Devere Smith Richard Dreyfus Dreyfus Just ripping him off

Dreyfus Dreyfus off the top rope Dreyfus had to get the stink of Mr. Holland's opus off him He was just too nice of a guy There's never been a nicer movie character than Mr. Holland by the way Mr. Holland was just a super

Man save it for the podcast we're doing in December because it's on the list 25th anniversary Right and then in order to get that stink off of him he essentially had to play Dick Cheney. Like he kind of, he had to play,

he essentially had to be Dick Cheney to get that off of him. So yeah, the whole, the whole nine. But he was great in it, though. Great in it. Let's, let's talk about the Dick Cheney thing now. I wrote down Dick Cheney 1.0 in my notes. Here's the thing. We, we didn't know Dick Cheney yet.

Dick Cheney wasn't Dick Cheney. Richard Dreyfuss is inadvertently the Dick Cheney prototype, and we don't even have Dick Cheney yet. And then Dick Cheney goes, in five years later and is basically playing Richard Dreyfuss in this movie for the next eight years. It's kind of bonkers. A little bit. You think maybe Dick Cheney

saw this performance and went, there it is. I got it. That's what I got to do. Because Dick Cheney had already been around because he worked for Reagan. But he wasn't famous. Like, no one knew who he was. No, nobody knew what he looked like. No one had any clue who he was until later on.

So maybe he was like, that's what I got to do. And then he did it. Amanda, I think that's what happened. I do wonder how much both Republicans and Democrats studied this movie in terms of kind of the media frenzy and the playbook and the character attacks, which I mean, we're definitely happening in the 90s, but certainly by the 98, 99, really ramp up. And also this idea of like the staff being really famous, which I think is also helped by the West Wing, but all the people behind the scenes getting their own cult of personality, like you can definitely see why you would want to do that

if you were someone working in Washington after watching this movie. Well, you know who I think it's funny that he seems like Dick Cheney and looks like Dick Cheney. But I actually think he's modeling the performance after Bob Dole. Because when you think when this movie came out in 95,

Bob Dole runs for president in 96, but it's same kind of like gruff to the point. Even though he doesn't look like him, it's the same kind of model. And even if you look at the SNL sketches from 96 when Norm McDonald's playing Bob Dole, he's basically doing that gruff,

which is what he's doing in this movie, right? You know what just dawned on me? What? Are we seeing Dick Cheney because we're thinking about Richard Dreyfus playing Dick Cheney in W? Possibly. No, he literally looks like Dick Cheney, though.

He looks like, I thought, when I was watching this, I thought total Dick Cheney. But it didn't even occur to me that Dreyfus actually went on to play. Remember W? The Olive Stone Joint? He went on to play Dick Cheney in W. Is that why we're seeing it?

Or is it genuine? Van, I think it's a good point. He does also sound like Dick Cheney, though even there. And I do think the voices are similar, but I'm not sure how much of that is influenced by the fact that he sounds like Dick Cheney in W as well. So that's, so maybe his W is Dick Cheney 3.0 and the actual Dick Cheney was 2.0. Right. That's how that plays out. So we have him.

we have really the last Michael J. Fox movie performance, I think, because then he goes to Spin City and he gets Parkinson's. He had Parkinson's when he was filming this movie, but it was like early stages. And that's it. And he has this 12-year movie run, maybe, starting with Back to the Future and Teen Wolf in the same summer. I guess 11, 10 years, 11 years, whatever that is, all the way through to here. And then that's done. And then, as Amanda pointed out, some of these people pop into the West Wing. It's a double dipper.

Everyone gets promoted, basically. Martin Sheen is the chief of staff. Then he gets to be the president. John Mahoney is running the GDC. And then he gets to run the White House. It's nice. I'm happy for them, the career advancement over time. My girl, Samantha Mathis, didn't get the West Wing nod.

No, she doesn't get promoted. Not sure what happened. This is a nice little run for her. Pump up the volume. She makes that, what's that River Phoenix singing movie? The River Phoenix one. Which one is the River Phoenix? She, River Phoenix, Delmet Mulroney, somebody else, they're all singers.

That's how she meant River Phoenix. Oh, I don't know that one. She has a nice little five-year run. Then she's in Broken Arrow. Broken Arrow. Oh, yeah. I'll remember, yeah. Broken Arrow, saw.

Not in a minute. She was doing her thing. I love that era of actors that she kind of represented. like River, Christian, she did two movies with Christian, all of those guys. I love those guys, man. Then early John Mahoney, because he's in reality bites a year before.

He's still not John Mahoney yet, but he's kind of that guy at this point of the movie. You're like, oh, that guy. I like that guy. And then eventually becomes John Mahoney, but a lot of good stuff. Ah, the thing called love. I do.

I have seen that. There it is. Yeah, you know that movie. Yeah. No Oscar Noms for this movie other than the awesome musical score. would you hear. It's incredible. God, Amanda, hum it.

I want to hear it. You can hum it. Oh, God, I just got really nervous. Do it. You just want to salute. You're like, is there a flag? Can I salute? Hear the music.

You're just going. $62 million budget made $107.9 million. 91% on rotten tomatoes. If fantasy was here, he'd be like, I don't care. But 91% is pretty high. Roger Ebert. Four stars. Loved it.

Four stars. He wrote a flawless recreation of the physical world of the White House, the smart and accurate dialogue, the manipulation of the love story to tug our heartstrings. This is a great entertainment, one of the year's best films. And then Cisco loved it too. And the irony was they destroyed North,

which was Rob Reiner's previous film. Both of them said it was the worst movie of the year. So as they're reviewing it, they're like apologizing for destroying North, which I personally don't think they should have apologized. The only thing I had before we get to the category is just the whole world of the White House. Even if the movie doesn't totally work, it's still so fascinating when they build the White House set and people are running around

and the president's got his office. And I do feel like that was one of the reasons the West Wing worked. There were a lot of reasons it worked. But it was always just nice to be in the White House. And we go through these phases with this with movies and TV, right? Remember that one summer we had White House down and then the other. There were two different White House being attacked movies. London has fallen and White House down.

Right. Right. And then you'll have like the contender will pop out of nowhere. It feels like post-Trump winning the presidency. Everyone's just steered clear of the White House for any sort of pop culture content. I wonder if there will be another wave coming. Who knows? Yeah.

It depends because, like, remember now, even now, no matter which side of this thing you're on, it doesn't seem like a desirable job. It's not something you really would. At that point, it was different. And even, like, in this movie, like, we talk about scenes and we're going to talk about later in the scenes, but the scene where he has to actually order the attack, there's no one in the world who would believe that the president, whoever he is now, would be hesitant to order that attack, that he's going to kill. care that much about some guy that he ever knows. That notion is gone. So like all of that stuff,

the White House looks sparkling. This is one of the most romantic movies I've ever seen before in my life. Everything about it is romantic. You know, everything's cute. Everything's amazing. It just, it's a last film like this, really, to me. Yeah, it also taps into, I mean, the ultimate underlying theme of this is his staff reveres this guy and they think he's great. And he's not being great. And it finally leads to Michael J. Fox snapping near the end because he's basically like,

hey man, I fucking voted for you. Forget that I work for you. I voted for you. I wanted to believe in something. And you're just sitting back and letting this Rumson kick your ass. And we might lose the election because you're not stepping up. Like, I thought

you were great. It's basically what he's saying. And then Douglas delivers the awesome speech. But it's You know, I think we've probably felt not to make this liberal, whatever, but I do feel like that was part of the Obama presidency was the feeling like, hey, this guy has a chance to be great. And whether you thought he got there or got halfway there or whatever, forget that part.

It was just like there was a feeling like, hey, there's a chance that this guy has some magic in him. Right. And now you think about where we heard this election, where it's these two candidates who are almost in their 80s. and it's just it's so gone and you watch this movie

you're like oh my God what happened in 25 years there's just there's a reverence in this movie for the institution

and the ideas of the presidency and what it can represent that just seems completely impossible now just yeah for kind of both sides

I'm not even pick it aside yeah no it's we're hoping for the chance to be normal great Great's out the window.

Grates gone. Forget about great. We're hoping for the chance to not devolve into civil war. Normalcy. There's a normal Coke, a normal Pepsi. Forget about the champagne.

We're just hoping that it's normal. It's seltzer water. Seltzer water, yeah. I mean, and you can even fill it at the first Democratic debate when there was like, what, 10 people on the stage, 12? Right.

And you're just like, Oh, man. There's no Andrew Shepard on that stage with Martin Sheen behind him and Michael J. Fox going, man, you have a chance. Come on, man. Grab this country by the boss. Anyway, it's one of the many reasons we love this movie. We're going to take a break that we're going to get to the categories.

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Most rewatchable scene. It's short, but the lonely widower moment is important. Mr. President, your cousin should have come down with the clue. we won't be able to join you Thursday night. Sorry to hear that. Remind me to give her a call later today. Yes, sir. You're going to go stag? It's not a problem.

No, we've never gone wrong for eating you around as the lonely widower. I can't believe I said that. Mr. President, that was an incredibly thoughtless remark. I would never dream of insulting you or the memory of your wife. That's okay. Forget it. What time is it? Everything about it.

It really, for all the reasons we discussed, set up the move. Next one. The Prez and Martin Sheen playing a little pool talking about, just two buddies, two boys, just kicking back, browing down. Just broing down. I will not do it playing pool. I will not do it in a school.

Seven ball, side pocket, Mr. President. Call me Andy. It's just good stuff. Sheen and Douglas, they look a little too much alike, but it's okay. And then you also have that weird element of sheen becomes the president five years later,

so that's in the background. It's still really enjoyable. I am always in when two guys are playing pool in a movie scene. Boomerang did it multiple times. times. I can't think of any movie where it hasn't worked. It's great.

I can't think of any movie where two guys playing pool where it hasn't worked. It's like a cheat code. Well, and it doesn't just have to be two guys because like in Mystic Pizza, huge pivotal scene when Julia Roberts does the rich people, the townie comes in. She's just banging out, balls left and right. But I'm always in because part of why I love the pool scenes is because it, you know, you kind of want to know if the actor is actually good at playing pool. Right.

It's funny. Whether they have to use the quick cuts or whether they go wide shot. And Douglas had clearly worked down his game a little bit because they go full wide shot for him. And he's just like, stroke. So I was impressed. Next rewatchable scene, Prez calls Sidney for a date. Oh, that's going to be Leo Solomon. And he said he'd call it nine.

Hello? Yeah, hi. Is this Sydney? Leo? No, this is Andrew Shepard. Oh, it's Andrew Shepard. Yeah, you're hilarious, Richard. You're just a regular riot.

No, this isn't Richard. This is Andrew Shepard. Oh, well, I'm so glad you called because I forgot to tell you today what a nice ass you have. I'm also impressed that you were able to get my phone number given the fact that I don't have a phone. Good night, Richard. This isn't rich. By the way, we've seen how many times has that specific trope been used in a rom-com? the I don't believe it's you.

Ha ha. Go fuck yourself. And then it turns out it's the person actually calling for the day. At least 10 times, right, Amanda? Yes, absolutely. But this one has a special element because his solution is, why don't you actually call the literal White House number? Yeah.

And that's the real White House number. Right. That's what you call. It was good. That's a loss move. Really? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know if they've changed it. Maybe in the last five years, I haven't checked.

But yeah. Next one is the dance scene. I'm not a dance scene guy. It's really well done. They're talking and he's like, what's the like 200 people looking at you? And he's like, I'm fine. They're all looking at you. It's just like some good elements in that.

That's another one where I looked pretty closely. I do think it's Douglas dancing, right? It's that. Oh, yeah. He's great, just very smooth. And it's a scene that I shouldn't give a fuck about. I shouldn't care about that. That scene is completely culturally detached from me.

Right. Like, I don't understand the dancing, the music, any of that stuff. But I find myself watching this movie. Kulika comes in, she goes, yo, what are you watching? Because I'm going, you just so, you know what I mean? It's so, first of all, even the mechanism by which they get up to go dance, right? They have to have a minor Marie Antoinette discussion before they get up to go dance. And then they go and do it.

And it's just a moment. I love moments and love stories like that. you see the spark between people is real. And that's kind of what that moment is. And they also show everyone watching them dancing and being like, oh, like you get everyone's reaction shot so you know that everyone's very moved

by this widower like finding a date. It's very cute. It's like the president's first date. The the elegance of it is important. Right. She kind of has to match the elegance of the moment. And she does because it's Annette Benning. But it's just good. It's really well done.

The next one I have for ReWy The morning after they sleep together when everyone just barges in because the day started because he's the fucking president. I'll just get my coat beyond my way. So what's the situation? Camped out at every exit. Who?

Who's camped out? The press. The press is camped out? You should have taken a cab, Sidney. They know my car? Morning, Mr. President. Good morning, Sidney. Hi.

I came as soon as Louis Crawled. Oh, thank God. I think the important thing is not to make it look like we're panicked. See, and I think the important thing is actually. not to be panicking. Morning, Mr. President. Morning. Morning.

Morning, Ms. Wade. Hello. I see everyone's getting an early start today. So how do we exit Sydney from the building? She's like pulling her pants up. There's three people in the room already.

I just think that's really funny. I like how they do that. But it's like weirdly normal. It's not, I think it could have been the wrong hands gone badly. Next one is Michael J. Fox challenging the president. That is, who's in second gear

for this whole movie and then finally like brings the car on the highway in that scene. I wrote about that in college. Really? Yeah. Like in college, I wrote a political essay called The Disease of the Sand Drinkers.

Like, you do, and that we had come to a point where we could no longer recognize genuine leadership. That movie inspired that thought to me. Like, we won't even know the guy when we see him. Or will we? And it was a whole thing. I remember the professor going, where did you get this from? I'm like, actually, this part comes from like a

Rob Reiner movie, like a, like, like the whole deal. But like that is such an amazing back and forth. And this is sort, I didn't know who Sorokin was at this time, right? I didn't, I had no clue who he was. Like I didn't,

I couldn't match any of the DNA of anything that he was doing. But he goes on to like obviously pay off his genius many times over. But that is one of my favorite movie scenes of all time. Plus it has a line that in 2020 is kind of jarring when he says it. people want leadership, Mr. President. And in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. You're like, oh, shit.

And if they crawl through the desert in late October 2020, bro, if they crawl through the desert and there's no water, they'll drink the sand. I'm like, yo, that's, that is crazy. Like, I mean, once again, not to get too political, but that's insane, insanely prescient right there the way that is in that movie. Amanda's having a really good time.

I love this, Ian. I think it's really important. We can go further. Douglas comes back with what? Can you do have the top of your head? They don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. People drink the sand because they don't know the difference. Yeah.

Is that right? Pretty much exactly. And he says it with that Michael Douglas edge. People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it. They'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage,

and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand. Lewis, we have had presidents who are beloved, who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference. That's a great scene. Next one is, plus the other people watching it have the appropriate reactions, right?

Where they're kind of like China seem calm, but they're also going, wait, what the fuck's going on here? Is this going? Everything about it's good. Next one is the second pool scene. Two pool scenes in this movie. Oh, yeah. Sheen and Douglas, where it gets heated.

I beg you a pardon. Because it occurs to me that in 25 years, I've never seen your name on a ballot. Now, why is that? Why are you always one step behind me? Because if I wasn't, you'd be the most popular history professor at the University of Wisconsin.

Fuck to you. They had three fucks in this movie, and I think if there's four, it's rated R. I think they had to negotiate three. It was a three fuck rule back then. Isn't it also that the fuck can't be used as a verb? It's just an expletive. Does that matter?

is fuck you is that a verb well I don't know whether that's I don't know we don't have to get into the grammar of it but I think it's an expression but I think

you know what I'm saying you can't use fuck to mean sex basically oh yeah exactly and then wow that one thing huh interesting listen I didn't actually make up the rules but I think that that is the distinction

I think it's fuck off fuck you or fuck but you can't use it as the the verb Right, I got you. That seems really good, though. And, you know, there's a fascinating sheen dynamic for this whole movie where you're like, could this guy made a run? You're just thinking, and also you're thinking that because he ends up becoming the president of Western.

But you're like, why is he the kind of the conciliary instead of something more? And then he says that and you're like, oh, I get it. These guys have been buddies. He realized Shepard, he could, he should hitch his kite to Shepard. And they were both going to win. And then it happened. And then the last one, Amanda's favorite scene, Douglas' big speech. We've got serious problems, and we need serious people.

And if you want to talk about character, Bob, you better come at me with more than a burning flag and a membership card. If you want to talk about character and American values, fine. Just tell me where and when and I'll show up. This is a time for serious people, Bob, and your 15 minutes are up. My name is Andrew Shepard, and I am the president. Great monologue, great moments. Really sticks it to Bob Rumson in a whole bunch of different ways. Tremendous.

And takes his thrown back. Good stuff. I would say that's the best, most rewatchable moment, especially because it's near the end. You know it's coming. But really, this stretch for me is Michael J. Fox challenging the president, right to Sheen, and then to the speech. That whole 15 minutes is fantastic. You know what I like? I like just the little small limo scene where it's more...

I do too. I love Michael J. Fox in this movie so much. So much love Michael J. Fox in this movie. And when they're in the limo and he's like, I'm just going to hop out. No, no hopping, sir. Hopping, sir. Or he goes also, by the way, which is another thing that I put into my life because of this movie. I tell any girl I'm going out with to assume that all plans are soft.

until she receives confirmation from me 30 minutes beforehand. And they find this romantic? Well, I say it was a great deal with charm. That became a mantra in my life. Hey, Van, what are we doing Tuesday? I would go do this. We're not going unless you hear from me an hour or 30 minutes before to say that we're going, or else things have changed.

And I got that from this film. So I like even that little thing. I love Michael J. Fox. And Dan Barry minimum security prison. every time I see Danbury Minimum Security Prison where celebrities have gone, by the way, I think about Michael J. Fox in this movie,

even still to this day. Profound. It's a bummer watching him knowing it's his last movie because it wasn't just that his movie career was way shorter than it should have been, obviously. But he really was kind of a one-on-one. It's not like somebody else, like he left and then somebody else is like,

cool, I'll get the Michael J. Fox rolls now. He, every time he was in a movie like this, he just stood out. I think the fact that he was small, he always used to his advantage. He always seemed bigger than his size. But you always just felt like he was the moral compass in a lot of ways, which is why when he made movies where the wheels would come off, with a bright light's big city. It's like, eh, you're the moral compass. You can't be like the dude who's doing rails in a bathroom at three in the morning.

Like you're Michael J. Fox. So anyway, it made me nostalgic for the 20 years of movies we missed with him. Yeah. Also, I could see this as being the natural place that Alex P. Keaton ended up. You know, he switched parties and then he ended up. But I can tell you what. I wonder how many people are going to get an Alex P. Keaton reference in the year 2020. We haven't talked about family ties in ages.

But yeah, it was a great show. Look it up. It's the lost sitcom from the show. the 80s, right? It's a lot. We just don't talk about family ties anymore. It was fucking huge. But I think I would see that, I'll say I'd have to say I would see the character because he was so political as he played Alex in, in that show. The biggest sitcoms of the 80s were Family Ties, Cosby Show, Cheers. Roseanne? Roseanne was, I always feel that was more like a 90s. 90s.

It's enough ladies, yeah. But I really feel like those three were the three. Family ties and, then it led to all the stuff that happened on Michael J. Fox. But yeah, it's weird that I think part of it was the premise, just that it was like son of a baby boomer, but he's kind of a Republican and he likes Reagan. I don't know how well that ages. But yeah, you're right. The Alex P. Keaton, I had that in what's aged the best because I always felt like he's kind of Alex P. Keaton, if you think of it. Amanda, you never watch family ties. It was before your time, Amanda. It was. I have, I know what it looks like. I can see him in his little Alex P. Keaton suit in the kitchen, but then, you know,

all of the Reagan references and everything would have gone over my head. All right. So I have rewatchable the speech. Do we all have the speech or is there something else for most rewatching? Can I, can I add one more scene very quickly before picking the speech, which obviously I'm going to pick because it's the greatest work in speech? I like it when he tries to order the flowers. I think it's like very funny. It really adds to the kind of the goofy but sentimental Michael Douglas, and there is that funny element of like, what's the state flower of Virginia? It's a dogwood. Dogwood's a tree, and they're going back and forth. Janie, what is the state flower of Virginia?

Mrs. Chapel, state flower of Virginia? The dogwood. The dogwood, sir. Thank you. It's a dogwood. Really? Hold on, please. Janie, the dogwood is a tree. It's not a flower. Actually, it's a tree and a flower. Are you sure?

Yes. What's going on? Sir, it's a tree and a flower. The dogwood is a tree and a flower. Like a dozen, please. It's as much about the workplace and their affection for him as it is about his affection for Nat Benning. Though I also think the conclusion with, it's a Virginia ham is very cute. That's just some A plus specific rom-com stuff. You got to have a few of those.

And I want to give the movie its credit for it. Yeah, the more self-deprecating and clumsy. People can be in a rom-com, it usually works. They can't have their shit together. What's age the best? We mentioned, it's basically the prologue for the West Wing. It's the short story somebody wrote in college that got blown out into the book seven years later. There's a lot of stuff on the internet about this.

There's dialogue and both things that are basically identical. Sorkin has admitted some of the first season of the West Wing was taken from stuff that he edited out of the first draft of the American present, then you have all the links to the characters. And if you love the West Wing, it would, you'd be hard pressed not to also love this movie. I would never seen an episode say. Interesting. Really?

Never, never, never seen an episode. I think, I think it would be a fascinating rewatch in 2020. And I don't, you might walk away hating it because there is both like some network TV elements and it also does get more specifically political and the politics, you know, don't age in the, I mean, it's different. We live in a different time for all the reasons that we've been discussing. But there is also the characters and all of the development that it starts in the American president and goes through the four seasons that Sorkin did, the first four seasons, are pretty

remarkable. I'd be curious to hear what you think. I'm going to check it out. I might check that out. It ends with the president eating at a diner and you don't know if he got shot or not. Everything goes to black. More what's aged the best. I'm crying.

This is really emotional. I'm at the White House. I have goodness inside me. The country needs me. I just need to find someone to love. I'm a widow. Yeah, it's great stuff. More what's age the best?

The Libyan janitor speech, not quite good enough for a rewatchable scene, but I do, even though it's probably the corneous thing in the movie, you're going to tell me some dude is starting his shift in Libya. Somewhere in Libya right now, the janitor's working the night shift

at the Libyan intelligence headquarters. He's going about doing his job because he has no idea in about an hour. He's going to die in a massive explosion. He's just going about his job because he has no idea that about an hour ago,

I gave an order to have him killed. You just see me do the least presidential thing I do. It's classic Sorkin going a little over the top, but at the same time it got me. Mentioned Dreyfus. There's a montage once they start dating, which is cool, they're dating, which is so rom-com,

it's almost like they had to obey the official rules of the rom-com. It's like, hey, if you guys are going to start dating when you throw it, Sorkin's like, really a montage? And then I like to quote, How do you have patience for people who say they love America but can't stand Americans? It's great. Yeah, relevant now. Anything else has aged the best for you to?

Just stuff we've already discussed like that back and forth between Fox and Amanda. I don't know if, I mean, I do think this is age the best, though it's depressing that it's age the best, which is that montage you mentioned of like, they're dating. it's narrated with a bunch of media clips of like the finding the junior high school friend of Sydney Ellen Wade and all of the tabloid sensation that like very accurately depicts what happens when someone's caught

in the middle of a media frenzy and it's very savvy and it's depressing that it still does play but it makes a lot of sense. It's very perceptive. I had that in what stage is the worst of when the romance starts the newspapers chronicling it,

Which just, it's like the USA Today has it on their front page. Like, who cares? Right. But I thought that was funny because now it would just be like, Daily Mail. Yeah. Right. And Twitter. And other.

I bet you'd be a Twitter scroll. TikTok. TikTok of them dancing. Right. The whole nine. Can you imagine a single president dating in this age? No. It would be such a shit show.

He, like, in this movie, it's mildly controversial. and potentially politically dangerous. This day and age, it would be out and out obsession. We obsessed over Prince Harry and them. They're not even from here. So can you imagine a president dating,

like taking somebody to Ebaldi or something like that? Going out, you know what if the president takes? What if they stop at cheesecake factory? They go to cheesecake. Just can you think about that? That would be so wild. I couldn't imagine that ever happening. Ben, we'll never have to worry about it

because we have no presidential candidates that aren't like 78 or older. Right. So even if they're dating, they probably staying in making meatloaf. Right, the whole thing, yeah. The president's had a bingo tournament

with a date. Yeah, Borwood's age the worst. I got to say Martin Sheen working for the president is throws me off like 2% in this movie because he's also the president. Because I see Martin Sheen, I think of him as the president. So then in this, it's just hard to wrap your head around, but you get used to it. I know, but aren't you glad he has experience? No, I am.

I just. At least he's there, just learning how things go. And then he can be the president in West Wing and be great. I feel relieved, even though he's not playing the same character. I just see Martin Sheen and immediately assume he's the president, which makes Apocops now really weird to re-watch. Because you're like, ah, the president's in Vietnam. This is weird.

Wait, wait. That's his military service, though. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Casting what ifs. So this is interesting. Robert Redford came up with the basic idea of this movie. He had a single-line premise.

The President elopes approached a number of screenwriters saying, what can you do with this? Here's my idea, the President elopes. Go. Sorkin writes the best treas. treatment, Redford selects him. Redford's going to be the star of the movie. Rob Reiner comes into direct somehow.

I don't know why Redford, Redford wasn't controlling this process, but this is how it played out. Redford drops out. They don't know whether he drops out because Redford wanted to do more of a love story and Ryner and Sorkin. It's a little more political. Whatever the reason, he drops out, but leaves Ryner and Sorkin in place. Redford is the president. So we're talking, this is three, four years after indecent proposal, right?

Or maybe two years. So he's still looking good. He's looking like older, handsome Robert Redford. Sexy man. Yeah. It's interesting. I don't think he could pull up the speech at the end, I think would be the big thing for me. I think he's too cool to do all the slightly goofy stuff, like the sentimental.

And I also would just point out that the president elopes is a very different. premise than what we see, which is like the president dates and falls in love, because we see everything that happens. And the president of Lopes would be about a marriage. And it would be about balancing the White House and a relationship. And it would be probably a lot more solemn, frankly, than what is just kind of a fun rom-com caper. So, but I just, I don't really think that, I don't believe that Robert Redford doesn't know how to order flowers. Yeah. This movie, the two leads in this movie very delicately thread a needle. They thread a needle of these are beautiful, sexy, confident-looking people, but also

with that little hint of human frailty that you need in order to pull off the clumsiness in which their relationship starts. And Redford has never played a role like that. When he steps on the screen, he is the man. So it would just be hard for me to think that there was any indecision. He'd just be sexy man, Don, Juan. the chief of staff, the general of the whole

the commander-in-chief, should I say. And it's a completely different deal. I don't think it works for him. In the same way that it probably doesn't work for Sharon Stone. Remember we talked about that? You probably need something a little bit less than that. Yeah, Redford, even in a decent proposal,

wants to be more sleeps with him. That's it. She's staying with him because he's Robert Redford. That's the flaw in the movie, right? She's like, okay, cool. I'm going to go back to Woody Harrow to now. No, you're not. Right.

Like that, my wife who loves that movie, I don't know why. But she's always like, that would be it. Whoa. My version of this movie ends an hour 15 in. No, she just loves Redford. No, he's, I've said this before in his movie. Correct. That guy's, that's fucking Bruce Wayne.

Right. Like, nobody leaves Bruce Wayne to go back and work with the aspiring architect dude or whatever like that, whatever he was doing. Bruce Wayne. Struggling, yeah. Well, now if they made that version in movie in 2020, it would be Brad Pitt, right? It would be the Brad Pitt once upon a time in Hollywood. Hollywood version of Brad Pitt.

And they were just still like, wait, she's not going back to freaking. Tofer. Joseph Gordon Levitt. Sorry, Joseph. So Redford wanted to land Emma Thompson for the, uh, interesting. Benning roll.

Um, after he left Susan Sarandoned Michelle Pfeiffer. Oh, I got to say. Oh, Bill. Yeah. Here we go. Amanda knows. My favorite, Michelle Pfeiffer. You know, because we did, we did, we did, why am I blanking on the school teacher movie?

We did. Oh, we did Dangerous Minds. Yeah, Dangerous Minds. Yeah. My favorite, Michelle Fiver, you're catching her at a really nice Michelle Fyfer time here. And I think she could have pulled off the Annette Benning part really nicely. Yeah. I actually had her down on the list.

My list, I think, was her. Obviously, I feel like it's too on the nose, but Meg Ryan. It's too on the nose But she was like just too rom-comy at that point She'd done too many of them Would have been tough to pull off I don't know about Meg Ryan in a business suit I'm trying to imagine it

I have one that's going to blow your mind So Annette Benning and Michael Douglas We're supposed to star in a movie together But she got pregnant and had to bow out of the movie That movie? Disclosure Wow DeMe More got the part So there's this alternate universe where she doesn't get pregnant.

And then she's the Demi Moore character in disclosure, but then can't be an American president for the aforementioned what Van said about. Now you're bringing the baggage from the other movie. It can't work anymore. Interesting. I kind of like her. Although I thought that was a really good Demi Moore. That is a horribly flawed movie.

But that was a good Demi Moore performance. She really ratches it up in that one big time. Yeah. You're taking me back to my like 14-year-old cell. feel. And so I think we got to keep that one just the way it is. But you're taking me back to my, I was like, it was a lot for me to handle at that point. 90s technology with, we're going to have email where you go into a virtual room. You move the email with gloves. That was such a great year for what people thought technology was going to be versus how it actually turned out.

best that guy, aka the Joey Pants award. We rarely do this. Going female for this one. Martin Sheen's wife, aka Gail Strickland. So Martin Sheen's wife in this movie, very distinct face, attractive.

She's a that guy. I didn't know who it was. I had to look it up because I was like, I know that person. And she's been in like a hundred things, but you wouldn't know what her name was. So I'm giving her the award. I was going to suggest another woman

and this might be controversial and this might be generational and if you guys want to yell at me you're allowed to but Samantha Mathis Oh are you going to do Wendy Malick? Yeah I was going to do Wendy Malick. Yeah I think Wendy Malick I was maybe saving Wendy Malick for another one

but I think Wendy Malick is another generational that gal I was thinking Nina whatever from who also ended up on the West Wing I never took Nina Sizmesco whatever her name is. She plays Annette Benning's sister. Oh, the sister.

Yeah. She also ended up on the West Wing. You can't say her last name. She has another possibility. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for best overacting. I say this with respect and love.

But Michael J. Fox yelling at George on the phone. All right, George, can I tell you something? We're going to win this thing. We're going to get the votes we need and we're going to win this thing. And you know what I'm going to do after that? I mean, that very night, I'm going to go to Sam and Harry.

I'm going to order a big steak, and I'm going to make a list of everybody who tried to fuck us this week. Ellis? Yeah, well, just vote your conscience, you chicken shit, lame ass. He just dials it up. It's like he hadn't been able to cook all movie.

Right. There finally, like, hey man. Punch is the can. Yeah, go ahead. So he got to do it. You get to drop an F bomb. Dionne Waiter's Award.

Is Richard Dreyfus eligible for Best T-check? Is he in too much of the movie? I'm going to say he's not in too much of the movie. He's barely in it. He doesn't. he has two scenes. And then some speeches. Yeah, he's barely in it.

So I have him or John Mahoney. I'm going to go, my pick is Dreyfus. What do you think? Is Michael J. Fox in the movie too much for it to be him? Yeah, he's in too much. He's like the fourth week. Is Martin Sheen in the movie too much? Yeah, he's in the movie too much.

He has some big scenes. Well, then it happens. He does, but it's supporting. Dreyfus going on the talk show. Like, I'm not saying she's a hooker, But if you look at the votes, she's... Or the one where he goes, Never mind.

That she got her... Like that whole deal when he does that over and over and over again. Yeah, it's his to lose. Never mind that the president takes the fifth. Anytime a reporter has the temerity to ask him a question about a woman in a position to exert enormous influence over a huge range of. of issues. Also, what he does in that TV,

whatever TV show he was on was not dissimilar from something Trump would have done the last five years, right? I'm not saying it, but if you just, if you look at whatever, it was definitely the blueprint. What, he did it. He did it. He tweeted the thing out

about the Seal Team 16 and just went, yo, I'm just putting it out there. I'm not saying? Yeah, exactly. He did it. Right. All right. Recasting Couch. I'm just going to do it. I think the president's daughter could have been,

there were better choices in 1995. We have Pekin and a Pacan, just ready to be the president's daughter. We have Natalie Portman. We just have some talent. Natalie Portman does heat instead of this movie. I would have rather had her in this movie. I would have liked to have seen her version of the president's daughter

at the exact. She's the perfect age for it. I think it's a better choice than some of the movies she ended up making. And that was... Not quite awkward enough, though, right? Natalie Portman was like a little... Are you challenging Natalie Portman?

You challenging her to be awkward? I'm not... I'm saying this daughter was a little bookish, playing the tuba. Yeah. Natalie Portman, some years later, is in a very controversial movie, to me, at least,

where a grown man basically kind of falls in love with her. It was like a different, you know the movie. Like that's a year later, by the way. Bro, that movie's out of hand, dog. Like, we got to, we really have to discuss that movie's out of hand, dog. But on beautiful girls, by the way, if you guys haven't seen it. But yeah, so I don't think she kind of fits as much in this role a little bit. She's like a young model almost.

Okay. Bill, is Reese Witherspoon too old at this point in 1995? Ooh. I mean, she's in fear. She's in fear a year later. We obligated to bring up Reese Witherspoon. Yeah, but she plays,

she's still kind of innocent, but plucky. And you could see her being like, it's okay, dad, like, compliment her shoes, you know? She might have been like two years, two years too old, I think.

Okay, all right. It's a good one, though. It is. Like three range Reese Witherspoon? Yeah. Great one. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty,

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Save at Whole Foods Market. Have fast internet research. So this seems relevant. Aaron Sorkin later admitted that he wrote the screenplay while high on crack cocaine. He showed himself. Yeah. He's pretty open about it. He said he had a lot of gigs going on.

He locked himself basically in the four seasons hotel in LA and wrote a 300. 85 page script and was enhanced the entire time. And also developed sports night as he was doing it and was just on a bender. You know what? Fuck the drug war. Fuck it. Fuck the drug war. You just told me that Aaron Sorkin wasn't doing Coke.

He was on crack. Like he was doing crack. That changes. I see why nobody can get a fucking sentence finished in any of his. movies as soon as you talk, somebody else cut you off. This man was high when he was doing the whole thing. By the way, fantastic writer. I don't want to, there's going to be a lot of guys out there that are going to go,

hey, maybe I can get a social network if I, if I go see one of the homies. But no, I never knew that he was on crack. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Part of the legend. So there's conflicting data on this. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. You knew this?

You guys both knew that Aaron Sorkin was on crack. He's talked about it. His substance issues are like pretty well. documented because it continues for a while. And I think it's like part of the reason that I think he was still struggling like through the West Wing and, um, I'm happy to know it. I'll tell you why this has changed my life. Now, no longer will it be Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown and the rest of the, these

celebrities that have to carry this crack baggage. There's a new goddamn sheriff in town. And his name is Aaron Sorkin. Right. And when we start talking about crackheads, I'm going to bring him up. I got to do it. I got to do it. He somehow made it through the abyss and got a shit together,

which doesn't normally happen with crack cocaine. So conflicting information on this. They definitely built the White House set for this. It's unclear whether there's one version that says it was initially constructed for Dave and then they used it. And then it was eventually used for the West Wing. There's another version that said they built it for this movie and then used it for Nixon and Independence Day,

and I don't know which side to believe. So it's one of the two. I will say that the bedrooms in the American president and the West Wing are exactly the same. And the bedrooms and Dave and American President are different. Okay. I can just say that using my eyes and having seen all of these films far too much.

So we'll never know. But regardless, it was a very expensive set. It also, SpinCity basically came out of somebody seeing this movie and getting excited about it. So there you go. They want him to play a similar character for television. And then Michael J. Fox, he was keeping his Parkinson's secret, even through the casting and all that stuff.

He would feel a little shaking his left hand. So he'd put in his pocket and basically like nobody knew he was sick in any way, which is sad. And then Rob Reiner followed Bill Clinton around for two days in the White House for research. Yeah, come on over here, Rob. It's my secret room over here. gonna love this. Can we make Rob a sandwich?

All right. Obviously, he didn't follow him that closely. Yeah, he would have been completely different. There's at least one bathroom. He probably didn't go in there. The Apex Mountain. It's an interesting one. I'm going to say no for Michael Douglas, right?

No, can't be. No. Wall Street now. Yeah. Annette Benning, probably not. American Beauty. No, because she wins the Oscar, right? For American Beauty.

Yeah. Michael J. Foxx. no. Martin Sheen no. Aaron Sorkin, I'm going to say no. Of course not. No, yeah. It's got to be West Wing, right? Social Network. When he has sports night

hasn't been canceled yet and he has West Wing. You guys don't think that the social network is Aaron Sorkin Apex Mountain? It's very possible. We argued about that when we did that podcast. That is really true, though. He doesn't win for that. Oh, okay. He doesn't... He didn't win for that, didn't? I don't think it won. It was a big deal just knowing that him and Fincher were doing a movie together.

Yeah. Could almost have been as Apex Mountain the announcement. The USA Today? Apex Mountain. A lot of play in this movie. It was never got better for the USA Day. The Internet's about to come and knock it out. It was like the number one place to get box scores.

It's breaking stories about presidential romances. I'm going to say yes. President movies. So we're coming. We have Dave. We have this. And now we're about to get Independence Day, Armageddon, Deep Impact. This is kind of paving the way for this run of President movies.

And Dennis Haysburton 24, could this have been created enough juice for President's stuff to just be the new wave for Hollywood? It feels like yes. And don't forget President-adjacent-type movies that existed around this time to, like Murder at 1600. There was a lot of stuff going on during this time that even like Patriot Games to where, you're seeing guys play the president. Like it was a very political time and they were doing a lot of these types of movies and stuff. But maybe I feel like this one was the one

that captured the most of the countries whatever. Yeah. You know, so it could be. But for USA Today, I mean, newspapers, period, man. Like, done after this, internet. Rob Reiner? So here's the case for,

Rob Reiner. Seinfeld now, a massive hit headed for like a billion-dollar syndication thing. And he has this movie. And he's, he's, he's kind of, it's coming off north. Nobody knows with him. Now it's back. So he's got, he's got a hot hit movies with Sorkin, Castle Rocks booming, Seinfeld money. Can make the case. I still think it's a few good men, but can make the case for this. This is definitely the last case for Rob Reiner. Yeah. At the, at the, at the center. I also just want to say we were wrong, Strick and did when the Oscar for social network.

So this is definitely not his apex. Mountain. Yeah. Probably right. Pick of Nits. Andrew Shepard, like 10% too dorky, or are we good with the dorkiness level? It's a good question.

I have a spin-off of this, which is just Andrew Shepard's dating strategy. I love love and I love these people together. And I understand that we have to have a compressed timeline for a movie. But taking a woman to like an intimate meatloaf dinner with your teenage daughter on the second date, 48 hours after the first date, which was a state dinner where you were photographed in front of the whole world, it's just a lot very quickly. This man has absolutely no chill.

This entire movie happens in seven weeks. That would be very alarming in real life if the president just like won't stop calling you. And you're just like, I'm a person trying to. do a job and get to know someone, it's a lot. There's an alternate version of this movie where she decides she's not that interested, but he won't be denied because he's the president. And now it's a thriller. The president won't leave me alone.

Right. You got CIA guys like sleeping outside of apartment. You will date the president. Right. Starring Hallie Berry. Can I be honest with you? Yeah. I'm surprised that movie hadn't been done.

That's actually pretty good. Like a president who's overly courting and using all. That's terrifying. Yeah. That's actually not bad. He'll do anything it takes to win her love. Anything it takes. Think about that.

There's not a bigger horror movie villain, scary dude than a guy with that much power who just won't take no for an answer. Like, that's actually pretty scary. That's not bad, Bill. Can I just say it's a miracle that this movie isn't that? We didn't really talk about the fact that the president just starts dating a lobbyist. Probably not, sir, with all respect. And then that he is using the office and he makes a deal.

And they got their match in tope boards and they're just trying to get the votes. And then at the end, well, I guess at the end of the horror movie, he would do whatever it takes to get her and the environment would not be saved. But there is a creepy reading of this movie. I don't think it's creepy. I think it's one of the most romantic movies I've ever seen. But I have some questions. There's one knit that I pick every single time. So there's a time where I think they're playing pool and they're going back and forth.

And Martin Sheen asked him, he goes, yo, if you want to meet somebody, there's a way that we can hook this up and make it very discreet and private, right? And he goes, he's incredulous about that. Now, here's a thing. I'm not saying it necessarily if you're the president that you're down for that. but I am saying that you've at least, by the time you've gotten to be the president and you've been in politics that long, that's not from another planet. That whole thing is not, you're not going to clutch pearls at that. Like, you're not just, you're not, it's not from a, that's not going to be from the,

the way he reacted was, like, it was like he was Charlie Brown or somebody like that. No, like that, that to me, I always think that, and that's kind of the capra-esque quality of the movie, but he was just a little bit too puritan. about that. I add that in picking nits. The wife dies during, we find out later, the wife dies during the campaign.

It's four years. I guess in 92. Now we're near the end of 95. The press is just celibate for three years. You should just wear a priest collar? For all that time. The most powerful made of the world. They can't.

They can't stick a couple jumpoffs in there. What's going on? It never went down in all that time. Come on, man. Also, from what we know about people who become politicians, it's pretty unlikely for them to be celibate for three years. Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Amanda's traumatized now.

I mean, I agree with you guys. I think also, you know, the way that this movie handles sex is pretty funny. And frankly, there's more sex in it than you would expect from like a studio rom-com. I just notice here's the one part of this movie where I get awkward. is when Annette Benning just like tests the mattress every single time. She's like, let me just check the bounce on this. And I was like, excuse me, I'm 11. You know, and I still am a little bit when I watch this every time.

But, you know, so I think that they're only willing to do so much sex in part because they don't want to get into that Sharon Stone thing that we're talking about. And I think no one really wants to examine the actual setup of this movie, which is, as Michael Douglas says in that one. scene when he's like the second pool scene where he's like has he lied? Am I not, you know, unmarried father who's having sex with something down the hall from his 12 year old daughter? And I, you know, you're meant to understand that as the conservative, like, you know, negative view of him. And I think that's true to an extent. But the movie also knows that he's having sex with a lobbyist who he's also working with in the Oval Office. It doesn't want to get into the power dynamics of it all.

Yeah, I had that in Nipix, just in general. It handles it in kind of a way like, hey, but it's a little weird. I remember S&L, this was the first Will Ferrell season, I think, when this movie came out. And Darryl Hammond was Bill Clinton. He used to do like a fantastic Bill Clinton. And he came on and we can update to review American President. And he was like, so this is a movie about a man whose wife dies and he's in the the office and he's got to start dating again.

He's just, I love this movie. It's just really funny how they handled it. Maybe think of that. More picking Nits. Annette Benning, two old to have a roommate. I'm sorry. At some point, you're living by your, you're living in one bedroom at that point. You're like 30.

She is living by herself. Her apartment's not ready. That's why she's with her sister and she doesn't have a phone. The lobbyist's the place is paying for her hotel for her. She's not living with some money. All right. That I agree with actually. Stop it.

Continue. So they start dating. Then there's like multiple times when she just kind of waltzes in unannounced. Yes. That is a thing. He's the president. He's the president of the United States. While I was watching, I was like, that shit is whack.

That would never happen. Ever. Like, Sydney's here. Huh? Right here. Like, what? In the White House, you mean? What you're talking about?

Like, Sydney's in the Oval Office waiting for you, sir. That's not how that works. Like, what are you talking about? At the end, she just burst in like Kramer. It's like, you know, what is this? There is a secret service. Anyway, I agree with you. No security in this White House, apparently.

Not nearly enough secret service. Plus, like, how do the, there's got to be some sort of checks and balances every time she comes. Like, hey, we're still cool with that lady, right? Yeah, yeah, we're good. Let her in. They never know if they broke up. They could have just got off the phone where he said, I never want to see you again. And then she just shows up at the White House.

and they let her in, like, she could be a trojan who was working for the Russians. This is a great point. Yeah, like, they don't know. So that was one crazy to me. And the other one I already talked about is I just think the daughter is not a huge fan of this lady right away. And they don't even go near it. I think because it's such like a nice pleasant movie. But they don't have the side-eye stare from the 12-year-daughter at any point.

It's just also like fathers and daughters are a big sorkan thing. There is always a father who just wants to be loved by his daughter. And I find it very sweet, actually, as someone who has a father. But he's not willing to make her anything other than adoring because I think he just like wants to believe in that relationship. Well, as you both know, my daughter is my favorite person. So I always identify with those sort of things. I do feel like she would side-eye me at least a couple times.

If somebody I was randomly dating slept over the third time. next category. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? This is the all-time, yes, because West Wing was on for how many years? Like six? Seven seasons, four by Aaron Sorkin, and then he leaves. But yeah, correct. Yeah, it's a little like Cheers when Coach leaves Cheers.

Cheers is a different show to me. When Soriken leaves West Wing, same thing. What was the other example? Larry David leaves Seinfeld. them out after that. It's fine. It's not the same. But there's certain ones where, you know, like if David Simon left the wire after season four, we wouldn't take season five seriously. Like that's David Simon show. So with West Wing, it's just no. Just no. Yeah. Agree. Probably in answerable questions. How do you think President Shepard did in the 1996 election?

This was going to be my question too. I, it's, you don't want to think it's up in the air, right? You want to think that this speech like solves America. And that is its power that for like four minutes, we're just all in the hands of someone who solved America. But I think even in 1996, we know that's not true. I mean, he definitely announces a gun control legislation in this speech. So you know the NRA is suddenly up against him.

And the environment, you know, you have the McSorley-McClusky and Shane suddenly coming at him. So he has embraced some legislation that possibly leaves him open to disagreement. You also have that conflict of interest with the lobbyist. Somebody's making a big deal out of that. What's up with this deal? I mean, he went super liberal. And you have a lot of suburban women who are going to be like, who is this woman? So I don't know.

I think it's very possible that he lost, although I do think that there is, it's also very possible that his show of force before the nation galvanizes people to get out there and vote for him. But it's very possible that he lost

because he's got a lot going on in an election year. Here's why he wins in a landslide. You just have to use Clinton as the parallel. Economy's doing great.

Okay. 96. Things are just good. Where, you know, Cold War's over. We handled the Gulf War. There's, the internet still hasn't rounded in his shape yet.

People are feeling okay about everything. Puff. And you think of all the stuff Clinton had going heading into 96. Like, he had like three different scandals that they were juggling. 63%. Yeah. He was killing. He was killing it.

And he still crushed Bob Dole. So I think I think Shepard wins going away. And I do think the S&O version of Bob Rumson just annihilates Bob Brunson's campaign. Whoever on SNL is just destroying him week after week would have been bad for him. Yeah. Yeah. I think also to the extent that, you know, they keep talking about whether you should get in a character debate and is this about character. And I don't really know whether I agree that that's what politics should be, but it is very clear that when Andrew Shepard shows up as Andrew Shepard and gives something that, you know, people want to latch on to as a person, that that does really have power of politics.

And, you know, that speech, it's really good. And that takes you a long way. If Biden gave that speech, it just would have helped. Yeah, would have helped. But that's the thing. It's a movie and he's Michael Douglas. Right. Exactly.

Did Bob Runson, this is the next in answerable question. Did Bob Runson eventually find his calling on George W. Bush's cabinet? Did he get along with Dick Cheney? Or did they fight to the bitter end and it was like only one could stay? I mean, why can't we do just like continuous universe? where he does become Dick Cheney. Yeah. Okay.

Fair. Okay. That's fine. New category. debuted last week to a lot of success on the Rocky 4 podcast. This is now a permanent new category. We'd like to mix it up here in the rewatchables. What piece, and I didn't prep you guys either, so you're both going to just go,

oh, it's going to be bad podcasting for 20 seconds, but I don't care. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Good category, right? Easy. Yeah. Easy for me. What is it? The Virginia ham.

That's a very good one. Yeah. The Virginia ham, perishable and all. Give me the ham. The decrepit old symbol of their love. Interesting. The Virginia hand's really beautiful. I went for the pool cues.

I feel like if I saw those on eBay, I might bid on them. Right. I'll go with the cable net sweater. that she's looking for at the end, you know? And it brings them, I guess, once she can have it back, that's also because their love is back. And also, you know, it's the fall,

and I could use another sweater, frankly, so. Okay, there you go. This is tough. Final question, who won the movie? Ooh. Could go on a bunch of directions here. I'm going to go, I'm going to,

propose Michael Douglas. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think this movie works without him, obviously. I mean, he is the American president, and that's the title of the movie. That's a pretty obvious point. But I think it's also a very winning performance for him and a different performance. And just every single scene, you are just conscious that he is being very charming and very good in this movie.

And also, he gets to deliver the final speech. And I do think, like, I hear that speech at Michael. Douglas's voice, someone else doing it, it doesn't have the same effect. I, strong case for him. I think Sydney wins, like Annette Benning, just because when I step back away from the movie, it's really her fairy tale. It's really kind of her thing. It's her story.

She's the one that comes into a town, doesn't really know anyone, marches in on her first day, and the whole day. It's kind of really her thing. Now, in terms of like, you know, whatever. whatever, I think that obviously Michael Douglas gets, he gets the heavy lifting moments of the entire deal. But I really feel like I came away with it feeling better, feeling more excited for her than I did for him.

I had her ahead of Douglas until like the last 20 minutes. Wow. Just for who won the movie. But I think the answer is Sorkin. So this is a rare one where we all disagree. So Sorkin, it paves the way for sports night and then West Wing. and social network. But this is the movie,

despite all his personal problems where people were like, this guy is different. And not a few good men? Few good men was great. It was a great script. Yeah, cultural staple. I don't think it cemented him yet.

Where after this movie, there just weren't a lot of screenwriters where if it was like written by dot, dot, dot. You got to go out and see it. It was basically a Robert Town and William Goldman, and that was it. Oh, about Esther House? Yeah, I guess it's Joe Esther House. Yeah.

Right, right. But it's a really hard place to get to where the written by becomes a star of the movie, you know? And I think he hit that. Shane Black. Shane Black was there. Shane Black briefly. Yeah. Yeah.

But this one also, like, starts the Sorkin project. Like, I mean, a few good men is one of my favorite movies ever made. But this is also like the themes and the structure that Sorkin returns to in the West Wing and really all of his movies, including trial of Chicago 7. So it's kind of where it all starts. Bill, I think this is a good call. Yeah. Few Good Men, one of the first rewatchables podcast.

Feels like it was about 100 years ago. We were actually able to be in the same room together. I know. That was very fun. We had a whole Joe Galloway argument. Can I ask some question? Just real quick, about a few good men. Why, in the movie like that, are we supposed to believe that Demi Moore and Tom Cruise, like

they never got down, that like it wouldn't, they didn't never like, we covered that in the podcast. It seemed improbable that it, when they go out and they're cracking crab that night and having drinks that something doesn't happen, at least in a car. Well, isn't that when Markinson disappears? Oh, yeah. Like, I think something gets in the way of that crab night. But it does acknowledge it when she shows up at the door and it's like, do you like seafood? which you know what?

I think I like seafood, Joe Galloway. So I think that's a great move. She's all dolled up too. Do you like seafood? All right. Hair's got a little flip to it. Mascarra. She's looking good.

And Cruz is just oblivious. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that reminds me before we go. The worst case for this movie is Cruz is the American president. Dog, I don't know why. When I was looking down the list of people, I was like, well, maybe Tom Cruise in here.

And then I thought, what a terrible disaster. What a terrible disaster. I am Andrew Shepherd and I am the president. I'm like, what? It's being terrible. It becomes the horror version of the movie we were talking about. He's just like, answer the phone, come to me at the night.

You need to come on the helicopter again and won't kind of give up. There's the insistence that serves him really well in a few good men and is very alarming in this movie. Well, we found out what it was like in real life with the cruise, Katie Holmes' marriage. Yes, exactly. And on that note, we're going to have the rewatchmost. Amanda, Fran. This is really fun. Good to see you, as always.

All right. It's great to see you. Thank you, Bell. Peace.