The Rewatchables - ‘The Bodyguard’ With Bill Simmons and Van Lathan

Episode Date: July 27, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Van Lathan will always love you after rewatching the 1992 hit ‘The Bodyguard,’ starring Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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If you missed our first film from the Music Box documentary series, it is called Woodstock 99, Peace Love and Rage. It is running on HBO. It is available on HBO Max as well. Check it out. Coming up. And I... I will always not.

Me and Van Lathen, the bodyguard. Next. The guard lives by three rules. Never let your guard down. Let her out of your sight. Robin Costner, with me Houston. Now playing at a theater near you. All right, Van.

It's just a Friday afternoon here. We're taping this on a Friday. Two guys talking about the bodyguard. Totally makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. A classic. And I'm going to start. here. I texted you and I was like, I wanted to the bodyguard. I just want to have the Whitney Houston

conversation. This was really her last NBA finals win before it starts to slide downhill. It is an incredible eight-year run. She's magnificent in this. She looks great. She sounds great. This movie was a massive hit. She never really approached it again from the movie side. She dabbled in the pop culture side, but this was really the last peak for her. I thought she was a comment. I'll never forget her. What do you think of when you think of this movie? I just think of being like

captivated in every single way surrounding it. So, Whitney Houston has six songs on the Bodyguard soundtrack. And the six songs are all definitive Whitney Houston songs, for the most part.

There's a cover of I'm every woman in there in other songs. But these are songs that like when you watch the movie back, they were just playing over and over and over and over and over again, almost as if the film itself was an excuse to release the soundtrack, which of course also had I Will Always Love You on it, which was the biggest song of that year, maybe a couple years there. Well, I think about her, I think about just like a perfect pop star, a perfect pop R&B star. And she was grabbing at that last rung on the ladder with this movie.

This was her attempting to become almost like a share in, you know, how share went. She did Moonstruck. She became like a very serious actress. And it went along with her movie legend. The bodyguard was supposed to be the thing that was going to propel Whitney Houston to that side of movie star relevance. And the Diana Ross, Barbara Streisand, parallels as well from the 70s. Yeah. I wrote this in 2009 while Whitney was alive.

Let's say you rated a young female singer from one to 50 in five categories. Likeability, attractiveness, singing voice, pedigree, and stage presence. Young Whitney was a 50. Has anyone ever cracked 45? One of the many fascinating subplots in the mid-80s. You had a male singer, Michael Jackson, a female singer Whitney, a boxer Mike Tyson, a baseball pitcher Dwight Gooden, and an actor comedian Eddie Murphy, who peaked at precociously young ages, convinced us they were headed toward being the greatest

filling the genre of all time. Only none of them made it, not one of them. And I would argue that Whitney barely edges out Gooden as the biggest tragedy of the five. She should have been the Black Streis Inn, an iconic singer-actress who aged with her audience lasted for decades and was mentioned in the first breath. Anytime someone asked, who were the biggest female performers ever, instead it was over for her in eight years. I'm going to break with you on that. All right, let's argue about it. So when you, and I think when I went back and I looked over Whitney Houston's career, first of all, there were two, there were certainly two facets of her career, right?

It was Whitney Houston. And what you said about her checking every box is almost something that you can't accomplish now anymore. It would be very difficult to accomplish. I remember every story I heard about Whitney Houston when I was a kid was different. My mother and them would talk about how I was Sissy Houston. Houston's daughter and Dionne Warwick. My brothers would talk about how fine she was and she was a model. And then the ladies in the church would talk about just the absolute devastating perfection

of her singing voice. So that she had all of this stuff coming at the same way and it just kept building up. She didn't get to the point movie-wise where she was supposed to go. But if you look, Whitney Houston still sold over 200 million records. Yeah. She's still, when you talk about the great voices of all time, she's going to be one of the five people that you talk about. She has to be mentioned. If it's three people, five, seven, she's mentioned.

I personally don't think anybody sounds better there. I agree. I personally don't think anybody sounds better there. I think the infamy that the later part of her life took with some of the things that we learned about her personal life and some of the exploits, you know, between her and Bobby and stuff, I think it did. didn't, at least for my community, it didn't subtract away from everything that Whitney Houston was. And really, in a weird way, it humanized her. It humanized her in a way. This is not to say that anybody loved to see Whitney Houston struggle or go through these things, but it made a lot of people, it almost made her into sort of a folk hero that she,

despite all of her prodigious talent and everything that she had accomplished, she hadn't moved past just being one of us who dealt with these sort of issues all the time. And in a way, it just made her, we rooted for Whitney till the day that she passed away. Like, we rooted for Whitney

and loved and uplifted Whitney despite everything that went on with her to the day that she died. The outpouring when she died seemed unusual to some people that didn't seem unusual to me. I think that was the true measure of her impact. And ironically, Kossner gives the best eulogy of the whole funeral.

And I don't think people realized kind of how much affection he had for. They knew they made the movie together, but I don't think they realized the depth of the relationship. And he was just heartbroken and gave this amazing speech about it. But I just look at like, she should still be here. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And then the cousin to that, it's really hard to fly that close to the sun. and keep it going.

And that's why one of the reasons I respect LeBron so much. Like he was given all the talent, right? But he also, he pulled it off. You know, he kept it going. He didn't get sidetracked really by anything. And he just kept moving forward. He's still moving forward to this day. I think you look at somebody like Tiger,

who is the most talented golfer probably ever. And at some point, it's just he lost the steering wheel, literally. And I look at Whitney and I'm just like, that's the most gifted performer, I think, on my lifetime. It's her in Streisand. Because Streisand, I think, has slipped through the cracks a little bit with maybe people under 40. You go back and she was one of the biggest movie stars in the world in the 70s and had a voice that was, at least in the conversation with Whitney. It basically depends on preferences. You think Barbara Streisand sounds as good as Whitney Hughes.

I think she's in the conversation. I'm just telling you. Go listen to the way we were Evergreen. Like she had some classics. I can listen to all of those things, Bill, until I'm blue in the face. I think we're talking past each other right now. I said in the conversation. Whitney is number one for me, period.

Right. Barbara Streisand the way we were. I want everybody that's on this right now to listen to the way we were, then go listen to how will I know and tell me. And tell me what happens in your soul. Shout out to Barbara Streisand. I love Yentel. Love that movie.

Well, the thing with Whitney, we were waiting for the movie for a while because she was so charming. I sent you the clip. I remember I was in high school. I don't remember if I was a sophomore or junior or whatever when she went on Letterman for the first time. And she's saying, saving all my love for you. And just absolutely crushed it in a way that watching it on television show,

you're like, oh, my God. I kind of, it was like watching a UFO land or something. And Letterman comes out at the end, and he's just so thrilled and so enchanted by her. I mean, she was like 21 at that point. She just had so much talent. And it was just overwhelming. There's so few people

where you just watch something they do and you just go, my God, I can't believe I'm a member of the same species as this person. And she carries it in the bodyguard. Like she has a charisma and a warmth to her. And then the singing scenes obviously

pushed it over the top. But there's a couple scenes. The scene when they go on the date, she's really enchanted. Like, I really feel like she could have done this if she had kept her life together. I think she could have made a lot of movies. I think she would have been good. Yeah.

It's funny that you say Letterman was enchanted by her. He was leaping out of his skin. He was. Dave had a moment, man. He did. Yeah. Like, Dave was having a moment. She was a lot.

It's weird. So I remember, like, as a kid hearing the greatest love of all. and just being like, yo, man, like, what the hell? And my mom would hear the song, and she would just, like, turn the song all the way up, and she would fall into Whitney Houston's voice. She would just, like, disintegrate and fall into it. And the song was so moving. And if you look back of it now, and it seems schmaltzy and almost like elevator music,

but Whitney had that, she had that thing that would take. you to that next level. Remember when she sang the Star-Spangled Banner? Oh, yeah. And it just, she, it's this this aura, this sort of, you can't put your finger on it that just, the whole thing it brings you to that point. And to

your point in this movie, like when she's around, you feel it. Like you feel the push-pull between her and him and she's giving off so much star power even in these scenes and he's trying to match it because he's trying to stay professional. He's actually playing this whole movie trying to not do what David

Letterman did when he actually was confronted with the real Whitney Houston. And it makes for a good little interplay between their characters. Yeah, he almost can't handle it. Yeah. Her voice was so great. You know, obviously I had a daughter who was going up through elementary school and they would have these singing stuff that they would do in school. And it was basically like, if you're a little kid saying Whitney or Adele,

that was a bad parenting job. you. Like, just stay, just stay away from those two singers. Just period. Just stay away. Yeah. Don't go near them. That's, it's embarrassing for your kid. It's embarrassing for you. It's embarrassing for us. Like, just steer clear.

And that was, you watch these, she's just belting it out left and right in a really special way. Koster, meanwhile, is on the run of runs here. And this is like, you know, it goes back early, the mid-80s. He's in Silverado in America Fires. It hasn't really started.

87 and 92. He's in the untouchables, no way out. Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, revenge is the only stinker. That movie still made money. Dances Wolves, when that's every Oscar, Robin Hood, JFK, the bodyguard. And that's in six years.

He produces the bodyguard, and his fingerprints are all over it. He wanted Whitney Houston. It was the only actress. He thought the part had to be played by a really famous actress, I mean, a famous singer, that had to be authentic.

couldn't do it. They waited a year for her schedule to clear so she could be in it. And all of his instincts were like this is the one, this has to be it. And it's funny, you read the reviews and people were like split. This movie didn't get great reviews. I think it's one of the reasons why we're having on the

rewatchables because it's literally a rewatchable. I think their chemistry is really good. The reviews are like, eh, not really. I'm not buying it. All these years later, I think the chemistry is there. Didn't you feel it? I think it's good chemistry. hindsight.

I watched it last night and I thought it was great chemistry. But I think we were in a chemistry era and there were other movies where there were these two dynamite. Like think about this. Is this before or after like basic instinct? It's before basic instinct. It's after pretty women. Right.

So there's there's in that era. Yeah. There are these movies where these leads are like I was, they seem like these people are made for each other. Like basically instinct, it's. something completely different, you know, it seemed like they were made to have sex with each other. But when you watch Pretty Woman, it's like they are just completely developed in one another, and it works perfectly.

So I think there was a standard there that maybe this movie didn't quite meet to a lot of critics that watched it. Yeah. But now, almost no movie is like that. Nobody even cares about the chemistry amongst the leads. They don't even make cute films like this to like that much anymore. There's no real pretty woman for this era. So when you go back and look at it, you're appreciative of just how they got together. Like there's a scene, you know, the samurai sword scene.

I watched it last night. I texted you. There was real tension. I was like, I was really on some fly shit when I watched the movie. But maybe it didn't quite come across at that time. And it preserves a little bit better than it presented when it came out. It was also a really understated cost of performance that I think threw people off. Right.

You know? And it was, he did it for a reason. He basically wanted that character to. He was playing Steve McQueen. Right. He was like, how would Steve McQueen do this? The quiet, simple, hard-to-read guy. He even got a Steve McQueen haircut for it.

And it worked. But I think in the moment, especially following Robin Hood and JFK, and people are like, wait, where's Field of Dreams, Bull Durham, Koster? What happened to that guy? Yeah. And it's, because in, especially in Field of Dreams when he was so exuberant about everything. So, yeah, so likable and American. Yeah. It felt like he was so full of life.

and he's listening to the voices and he's playing you know catch with his father and all of that stuff and then for this movie for him to be cantankerous for a large part of it like almost you don't want to fall in love

and she didn't want to fall in love and the audience doesn't want to fall in love the audience of this movie begrudgingly falls in love with Farmer because he's just so disciplined and so heroic but he played it a little

a little straighter and this was the start of a couple of of a couple of movies where he would do that Yeah. He did that in this movie. He essentially was the same guy in Wyatt Earp a couple of years later. And then, you know, there was the whole water world thing to where he was juggling what kind of star he wanted to be. The mid-90s were kind of rough for Kossner.

He did perfect world. Perfect world. Same thing. Yeah. He got it back with Tin Kup and a couple others and kind of got his mojo back. But Ten Kup was him going back to the Kossner. Going back to the old Kostner. Yeah, it was going.

But Ten Kup is a perfect film for me. So it was Whitney's first movie. Lawrence Kasden wrote this movie. Lawrence Kasden did know the best screenwriters' Last 50 years. I got to say, I didn't realize it either until I started doing the research.

And there's a whole story behind it. This was his first big script, 1975. Wait, what? Yeah. It was his first script he tried to sell. Somebody bought it, 1975. Took the agent two years to sell it, all these people passed on it.

And then it kind of did that Hollywood development thing. There's some good casting what ifs from the 70s that we're going to bring up. We'll get to his strategy. But then he writes, body heat, does big chill, and then he's off. And then he becomes one of the hottest writer-directors of the 80s. And he's like, now I really want to get the bodyguard done. He's on Silverado with Costner. They're doing it together.

And he gives Costner the scripts. What do you think of this? Costner's like, we got to make this. Costner's not a big enough star yet. Then Costner gets untouchables, no way out, Bull Durham, we're making it,

let's go. And they end up making it, and they write it, and then they wait for Whitney. Cazden said he'd always seen Rachel, Whitney's character, as a superstar singer. But by the 90s,

her early success had plateaued a little bit, and the executives were like, are we sure? She was dating Bobby Brown at that point. There's a little, hmm, can she, wait, three months on a movie set,

and Costner's like, look, it's going to be Whitney, and Costner had as much clout as anybody other than maybe Tom Cruise. So that happened to make the movie, it makes an incredible amount of money, which we'll get to a second. What I didn't realize,

and I'd forgotten, this is still the best-selling soundtrack album of all time. Oh, yeah, it would have to be. This was massive. By the way, I wanted to get Saturday Night Fever. This sold 45 million copies worldwide. Yeah. For all of my nerds,

out there whose ears are bleeding right now after the cast and discussion, we're aware that Casson, before he wrote those films that Bill was talking about, did Star Wars and stuff like that. Just make sure that you I just want to always make sure I cater to the nerd. The Raiders are Lost Ark. Radius said Lost Ark, a relatively relevant

movie. I just want to make sure. I was still running out there. Yeah, I know. People out there going, oh, you're talking about he wrote, he wrote, we know. We wrote the Empire Strikes Back. I mean, he, I would say is one of the five best writer-directors of the last

40 years when you add the screenplays that he just wrote for other people and the stuff he directed himself. The album won the Grammy, which is rare for a soundtrack. Two Best Original Song Academy Award nominations

for I Have Nothing and Run to You. I don't know where the fuck I Will Always Love You was in the Oscar thing or how that didn't win, but maybe it's because it was an original song. Yeah, it doesn't qualify. It's a cover. Change the role for the movie.

How about this? Change the role that year. Just change the role. This is the most important song in a movie probably that decade. Right. That song sold 20 million units worldwide. Still the biggest by a female artist, right? Ever.

Yeah. Also, the film received seven nominations at the Golden Raspberry Awards, including worst picture, worst actor, and worst actress. Fuck the Golden Raspberry Awards. I don't like the Razzie's now. Bad taste for them. 25 million dollar budget made 411 million dollars. Nuts.

Second in 1992 behind Aladdin, which somehow opened the same day. And Roger Hebert, three stars. He said this movie does contain a love story, but it's kind of guarded passion that grows between two people who spend a lot of time, keep their priorities straight. There's one more piece of this that we should just talk about quickly before we get to the categories. Sure. this was a white bodyguard falling over the black famous singer

and this was during the stretch in the early 90s when Hollywood was starting to dip their toes into it carefully because we had the Michelle Pfeiffer Dennis Haysbert movie, we had jungle fever but we're coming off the 80s where they wouldn't even let Eddie Murphy kiss Charlotte Lewis and Golden Child, they just cut it. They didn't let Eddie Murphy basically hook up with anybody.

You didn't see him have sex in the 80s until boomerang in the 90s. But this movie does not consider race at all. It's not a plot. It's not mentioned. And Costner has actually said that we didn't feel like that was a story about. At the same time, it's hard to watch this 30 years later and think stuff like Rachel winning the Academy Award, which would have made her the first black actress to ever win the Academy Award.

I kind of feel like that would have been mentioned by somebody. Because when Halle Berry did it, I don't know, 12, 13 years later for Monsters Ball, it was a massive story. story. So it kind of the movie chooses to ignore all of this. How did you feel about that? I was surprised about how much of a non-thing it was for me. And I think

that had to do at the time I don't remember it being a thing. I remember it being I remember looking at it and going, oh wow, you don't really see that too much without it being the main driving point of the plot of the movie. You know, jungle fever comes out. And it

that's the point of jungle fever. The whole point is that he's black, she's white. I love that movie, by the way. That's the whole point of jungle fever. And then with the Dennis Haysber thing, I remember the story, and Michelle Pfeiffer,

Love Field, I remember the story around that being the fact that that role was originally for Denzel Washington, and Denzel didn't think it would be good for his brand to have that deep of a love story with a white lady on screen.

So I remember it's still being an issue. And in this movie, the look of it at first was a little bit like, oh, this is an interracial situation, interracial love story. But then after that, it just kind of went away. And I think one of the reasons why it went away is because of the place that Whitney Houston

occupied in American pop culture. Yeah, because everyone was the love of her. I think that she, and this was a weird thing that happened then, see, back in that time, it was almost a badge of honor to say as crazy and fucked up as this sounds, It was almost a badge of honor to say that a black star had transcendent race.

Remember that whole thing and do the right thing where John Tuturo is talking to Spike Lee, and Spike is telling him, hey, your favorite guy is, your favorite singer is Prince and Michael Jackson. Your favorite basketball player is this guy, your favorite base. And he didn't, John Tuturo says, but those guys aren't black. They're not like black, black, right? Because that was a whole thing, that time was full of such, huge megastars that sometimes there was this narrative that those people had in a way transcendent race.

And in a way, they kind of did because they existed in a plane that didn't have to do too much with blackness, right? Yeah. It didn't. And so that was kind of a thing. Now, stars, if you do that, Twitter will just eat you alive.

So you have to, in some way, show that you're deeply, deeply connected to the culture. I say all that to say that, the fact that it wasn't that big of a deal since more about who Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston were at that point in their career. They were just mega, mega, mega star, said if you were going to go into that movie believing that they were in love, it was more about Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston than it was about a white man and a black woman. I'm sure I was 12 years old at the time. I'm sure I'm overlooking something piece somewhere that discussed this. But I can just remember that it didn't seem like it was made that big of a deal at the time.

There was one thing that happened during this, that during the Twitter era would have been a huge deal. The poster. The poster, you couldn't see Whitney's face. There's the poster that's on the billboards, the whole thing. He's carrying a woman. It seems like it's Whitney, but if you really look, you can't really see her. And there's some good stuff about this. In a 93 interview with Rolling Stone, Whitney even addressed it and said, look, people know who Whitney Houston is.

I'm black. You can't hide that fact. But people were mad that you couldn't see your face in the poster. They thought Hollywood was intentionally hiding her face to hide the fact that this was an interracial relationship. Now, the other thing that happened during this time, Pelican Brief, Denzel and Julia, two of the seven biggest stars in the world at that point, they do the movie. They have a love scene that gets cut out. They cut the movie. So they have this weird tension.

It's in the book. It's not in the movie. It's cut out. It's the movie you watch. I like that movie, but that last third of the movie, it's off. And it's because whatever relationship they have, they just, the movie kind of runs from it. So it's not like, it was unusual, I think, that Costa and Whitney that they went for it in this movie compared to what else was going around. Either it was marketed as a huge part of the movie.

It was never just kind of not addressed. and I really admire that about the movie actually. Yeah. Look, looking back on it, I would have thought, it's just weird. I watched it and they like, I don't know, man, they go together. I have 100% agree. When he was so upset at the eulogy, I was like,

why did you save her? You should have married her. Right. Like, I looked at it last night. I'm like, I don't know. This works. They go together. It makes sense on screen.

He said after she died, he gave us. statement and said it was his one true love. And I actually believe him. Well, you know he's from Compton. Kevin Costor is? Yeah, he's from Compton. So Kevin Costner, look, man, you know, I've been talking about this. Kevin Costner on that Compton,

Linwood area. Kevin Costan, though, what's up, bro? Shout out to you, Cosley. C's what we call him. We're going to take a break and we're going to do the categories. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, enter your license plate or Vin, and get a real offer down to the penny.

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With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. All right. Most rewatchable scene. Look, the last 15 minutes of this movie are going to win. I'm just telling you now. but we'll go through some of the runners up.

I like when he meets her. I like when he goes to the rehearsal, Frank. Hello. Hi. Wait a minute. Well, you don't look like a bodyguard. What'd you expect? Well, I don't know.

Maybe a tough guy. This is my disguise. Oh, this timing's good. This is Nikki. Rachel's sister and a personal secretary. I like the fact that they're rehearsing for the video or whatever. Not at a rehearsal space somewhere in Van Nuys or in the Citi, they're doing it a full-on production like at her crib.

Yeah. Like that's weird. With a bunch of people and I. A smoke and the whole non and a director like at her crib. They're doing this whole thing at her crib. I like that. And it does a good job of capturing like, all right, this person's really famous. She's ordering people around.

She's a little pouty. I get it. He's a superstar diva. Estabishes everything five minutes. I just have this all together. Rachel performs the dance song in the club. All hell breaks loose. Frank saves her.

Frank fights. Mike Starr, our guy, who's going to come up in the that guy rankings. But that whole sequence, I don't really know why the dance song falls apart to the point that a famous A-list musician is in real danger.

And a mosh pit all of a sudden, it's a little pushing it. But that seems good. It's compelling. It was a push-pool. between them. It was, that was the scene

where she essentially had to surrender control to him. Because remember, there are people that keep trying to come up there and she keeps

saying no to him. She keeps saying, don't intervene, don't intervene, don't intervene, don't intervene. That's one of the underlying themes

of this movie is that how do you protect somebody who is, has too much hubris and is too proud to admit that they need protection,

right? It was about him finding his, they both have to find a certain degree of vulnerability. He had to find connection. She had to find vulnerability. And so in that scene, it just keeps going and going and going and going until she realizes that she's in over her head and she needs a little help.

And that's kind of the point of the scene. So that's one of the best scenes that kind of connects them to as they start to build some trust right there. That song is kind of Whitney. She goes out of the Whitney stereotype for the kind of music she sings. And kind of goes right at Janet Jackson, I feel like. like in that song. Oh, you like it?

Yeah, I like that song. It was an unusual Whitney choice, but I think she wanted to show like a different pitch. You know, she wanted to show her splitter. Never liked it. It's fine. It's of the era. It's not a song that could come out now,

but it was that weird Jody Watley, Janet Jackson era. But remember that whole era for me was like, that whole era for me was like, you remember Black Cat by Janet Jackson? Yeah. Like, people love that song. I never liked it when they, They went there.

Everybody was like, oh, they're going to get slash on guitar. And I'll be like, no, man, do miss you much. So it's not even that it's that song. Is that that whole little era, although I did like Cold Hearted Snake by Paula Abdul, that joint goes. But yeah, that's not my favorite Whitney.

I like what Whitney smooths it out a little bit. Next rewatchable scene, Frank and Rachel's date. This is a great, great, great, like seven minutes. This is my pick. Over the ending. Over the ending. This is my pick. This is my pick.

All right. Make the case. Okay. Because of the almond brothers? What push you over the top? So, like, my pick for this is because there's so many little subtle things in that scene that, to me, are awesome. Number one, the part when they do the classic romantic movie cliche, but then they bail out of it. Remember, he's sitting there.

He's like, his head is down. She's like, did you guard? somebody and then she died. Now in every other film that's what happened. Yeah and he's going to tell the story embarrassing. He's going to tell the story. We're going to relive the pin scene from Lethal Weapon. Yeah. Leithel Weapon 2, I think it is, like in this thing. And he's fucking with her. Nice try though. Frank. It was less dramatic than that. She didn't love me anymore. Can you imagine that? He makes a joke. They get a

a little closer together. She talks about the lyrics to I will always love you and how depressing they are. That's because she can't understand the sentiments of the song yet. Or country western music. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. She's like, you can just tell. She doesn't like, you know, but the callback factor of that, knowing that it's going to come late is, you're right. That's what makes that scene so great. What? I mean, it's so depressing. Have you listened to the words?

It is kind of depressing. Yes, it is. It's one of those, somebody's always leaving somebody's songs. After a while, she understands what the song is actually talking about, that not everybody that you love, that you can be eternally connected to. Sometimes you have to love somebody who then, for whatever reason,

has to leave. And she's had so many people catering to her that everybody that's around her, like they're right there because they have to be. And then by the time they get back to the apartment, she picks up a samurai sword. She thinks it's innocent. She thinks there's nothing. She doesn't know that everything around him is deadly. And he has to show her how dangerous he is by lifting the silk up and letting it cut. And then she realizes, you know, just who it is that she's fucking with. I thought that whole thing, that's one of the best date connection movie scenes

I think that I've ever seen in the movie. I agree with you. I had this for what's age the worst or nitpick somewhere in there later, but I'm actually mad that it and have a couple more scenes together like that. Now, in a way, it makes you appreciate that scene more because for like eight, nine minutes, they're really connecting in a way that's hard to do in a movie.

But then the next morning he wakes up and he realizes they made a mistake. And that's really it. They don't really connect again, you know? I might have done like two, three more scenes. Keep that going. All right, I got the run for you performance. Just because if this movie, if I could re-edit it,

first of all, it's way too long. But it's just Whitney's singing, you're never going wrong. Even the ending when she does the I will always love you. I just would have stayed on her. I never would have gone to the banquet. Just like, just let's say, let's let's let me cook for three minutes. Just let her go. But then the last 15 minutes, which we're going to dive into in a couple different categories,

but we have the Oscars. We have Robert Will hosting the Oscars. I have some thoughts on that. We have her presenting an award. We have kind of like almost like her body double or her voice double singing her song, which was a really interesting choice. We have her winning. We have Frank in slow motion.

We have the guy with the freaking camera rifle, which was pretty cool. Yeah, which was an interesting invention. a random Debbie Reynolds. Yeah, Debbie Reynolds threw a bombs. Just pops up out of nowhere. And I guess that would have been a moment in the theaters. I didn't see it in the theaters, but I guess it would have been a moment in the theaters

where everyone goes, Debbie Reynolds just pops up and they give her a little shine right there. It's so weird they have Debbie Reynolds and then no other famous people. That's it. Pretend actors, pretend films in the categories, the whole thing.

And then, you know, then the whole thing, it seems like he's going to die leading to the airport, which, it's one of the great endings. It really is. Her stopping the plane

running out of, it's just hard to get caught up at it. The song kicking in, the fact that it's Acapella, which apparently was Costner's suggestion, according to the research, said, no, no,

let her go. She's got the greatest voice of anyone alive right now. Let's go Acapella. So that's my choice. So you have the Frank Rachel date is your choice. I have the Frank Rachel date.

I just think the Frank Rachel date is adorable and very, very important to the plot and the connection of the two characters. What's age the best? I mean, other than Whitney and Costner in their, Whitney's late prime, Costner at his peak.

I love professional bodyguard movies. There's some, I really like a movie that Ridley Scott did with Tom Barringer, Mimi Rogers called Someone to Watch Over Me, Late 80s. It's excellent. And it's a similar presence to this. He's kind of protecting her and they kind of fall for each other and they shouldn't. But in that case, he's got a lot of. a family.

But what was that show that was set in England? It was like a terrorist show where the guy had to protect the lady who was on Netflix. I can't remember. It was a guy from Game of Thrones. I think it's called BodyGaw.

Maybe it's called BodyGuard. I like that one. With, um, with, uh, with the Young Throne's guy. Yeah. Game of Thrones guy. Yeah. Richard.

I like that. And I think is his name. Yeah. I'm, I just, I like when people have to be protected and then lines get crossed. Feelings are had.

Right. Because it's such an intimate thing. You know, how can you care about somebody that much where you would put your life on the line for them and then just like move on to the next job? Those guys are always interesting guys that do that. Like they're always, I have discipline. I'm rigid. Yeah. And then, you know, some person gets to the gooey center of who they are.

You make me feel safe. Now, why don't you really make me feel safe? Come out into my room today. Exactly. Let's make some sexual secrets. There's a good one from the mid-2000s that kind of came and went. but I think it's pretty rewatchable. The Sentinel, Michael Douglas.

I missed it. He's like a Secret Service agent. And he gets framed for something and key for Southern and he gets framed for something and Keith for Southern and has to chase it down. It's good. I recommend the Sentinel. Morwood's age the best. The soundtrack, just some bangers.

I mean, there's a reason it's the best soundtrack of all time. It's freaking loaded. The I will always love you. The Dolly Parton connection always gets me that it was a Dolly Parton song and it kind of bounced around as a song. I don't know if it was one of Dolly's three best songs. I don't know enough about her career, but then it finally finds the right voice.

By the way, the Dolly Parton thing, I literally learned like four years ago. Wow. I literally, I was legit at TMZ. We had a huge Dolly Pardon fan at TMZ, and they were like, they were like, you know, that Dolly Pardon is like a, that's her song. I was like, what do you mean?

they were like, well, she sang the song first. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? But I'd never in life heard that dolly part for me is me and Little Randy. Right. You know, about the dolly part. Like, that's my dolly part. I never knew about this joint because that was such a huge song. I had no idea that it was a cover.

Like all that time, as much useless fucking information as in this brain, I did not know that that was a cover to all of that, to literally I was 37 years old. Well, she owned it. She loved it. She was honored. She had a whole story about the first time she heard it. She had to pull over on the side of the road. She played it the right way.

There was no bitterness at all. She felt like when you took the next level. Yeah. That was great. Another Woods Age is the best. The concept of the resentful sister slash assistant thing, I don't feel like has been tapped into it. We'll get into the complications with that role and that story arc when we get to Woods Age the worst.

but just in general, though, I'm your sister, I'm older than you, but you're doing way better than me and you kind of stole my thunder. I was interested in that in movies and TV shows. I like this quote, I'm no good in a permanent position, Monty, my feet go to sleep.

Costa, right? Does that real job. I like that one. Another, what's aged the best, the widescreen. So when this movie was on in the first 15 years after it came out, the square TVs,

the way it's filmed, it's filmed really wide. widescreen. So on the TVs, it would always be, like, hard to follow, and they would have to do the thing where the camera was too close to everybody. So the widescreening really helped it. Coster's hair, I felt like he kind of made that a thing. Then Clooney took it to another level in ER.

And then even Jake. What we're talking about here? We're talking about the bowl cut situation. It's like a crew cut, bowl cut kind of Steve McQueen thing. Then Clooney, Clooney didn't an ER and all hell broke loose. Jake tried to do it in a Melrose place. Didn't really catch on as much for him. Grant Show was the man for a second though.

The Grand Show is red hot. Grant show, see, this is the shit, Bill. People don't remember shit like that. Like, people, I wonder what it's like to be Grant Show. Because it's like Grant Show was such a thing. Like, he would get like those little things from my mom. My mom, but, hmm, who is that? I'm like, that's, you know, he was like the biker from Melrose Place or whatever.

And they did the backdoor pilot where he was talking to Kelly on 902 and O'NO or whatever. And he was just like a huge Andrew shoe too. These guys were huge big deals and then it just kind of doesn't go. Grand show dated every single good looking woman on that show. Oh, did he? Yeah. No, I mean on the show. Every cast member, you see the poster and you're like, wow, there's some good looking woman on there.

It's like Jake was involved with each person. Heather Lockler, Sydney, the hooker, you name it. He was there. The Costner's idea to start the I Will Always Love You with the Acapella was great. And then the other piece that's age the best, which I didn't even know, is the whole story about how it's supposed to be what becomes the brokenhearted, was supposed to be the cover that they used, but then a movie called Fried Green Tomatoes used it to end the movie in 1991. And they were like, oh, shit, we need to find another song.

So just the fact that all that happened, age the best. Here's a, I'm going to just read you quickly, Koster's eulogy, just a piece from it at Whitney's funeral. Because this is age the best. And maybe Craig, if the audio is good enough, maybe we could just play Koster to it. But here's what Koster said. He was talking about how she didn't have a lot of confidence

when they were filming the bodyguard. Whitney, if you could hear me now, I would tell you, you weren't just good enough. You were great. You sang the whole damn song without a band. You made the picture what it was. A lot of leading men could have played my part. A lot of guys.

A lot of guys could have filled that role. But you, Whitney, I truly believe that you were the only one that could have played Rachel Marin at that time. You weren't just pretty. You were as beautiful as a woman could be. And people didn't just like you, Whitney. They loved you. Wow. Fucking cost her, man.

We got to do a whole thing. We got to do a whole other movie on whatever this thing Kevin Costner had for Whitney Houston was. Like he was, he was Kevin Costner. It looked like he wanted a little cocoa. You know what I mean? It was something going on there, man. Well, I think that. But also, Whitney's fucking Whitney Houston.

Who wouldn't fall in love with her? If you're spending every day with her filming a movie, you're falling in love with her. You're at least building a crush. I'll say this. Costner came to a Grantland party. Kimmel brought him. and any woman at the party, including married people,

all he had to do was just wave them over and it would have been over. Yeah, it was a whole thing. He's got it, man. He's got it. Robin Hood. But this was five, six years ago. Yeah.

Oh, six years ago. Yeah. He was still doing this thing. Oh, okay. He still has it. He probably has it right now. Any other would stage the best for you? Secret Service guys.

Yeah, yeah. So there was a little wave that they had with Secret Service guys during this time because they had this movie and then around this same time Bruce Willis was in a movie with Damon Wayans which I still adore which nobody else fucking cares about

because they think it's a lethal weapon knockoff but the last Boy Scout Wait a second. Wait a second. First of all it's on the list and if you want to be invited with me and Chris Ryan you're invited. How dare you dismiss the last Boy Scout? We fucking love that movie.

I pulled the Logan. Remember when Logan? to explain to us who John Hughes was, and I got on here that did the whole last voice got this. Shout out to Logan. But the reality is that, like, those two movies were the first time I ever saw, like, Secret Service guys depicted on screen.

Yeah. And since then, there's been a little run of Secret Service guys. Well, one guy was actually a Capitol Police guy. I remember when he was protecting the president and fucking Channing Tatum in the White House down or whatever. Yes. And then the other one was, of course, Dr. R. Butler

and Angel has fallen, then Olympus has fallen, then my acting ability has fallen, and then all of that stuff, you know, but so Secret Service guys, after a certain time,

became like leading men type of characters. And I think there was even, like, at the end of the decade, there was, and there was a whole Secret Service wave because remember Dave, Ving Rames was in Dave, he was a lovable Secret Service,

the whole nine. So Secret Service guys have aged pretty well. I'm glad you threw that end, end because I was going to come in off the top rope and say my favorite secret service guy ever is Ving Rhames and Dave. Ving Rhames and Dave. Dave, I would have taken a bullet for you. What stage is the worst?

Wow. The sister's confession, the motive, just it's... That's the answer. It's just so bad. I still don't understand it. Did Whitney, did she know that it was her sister? Like, why you're paying somebody? You can't stop.

You can't change your mind. it's all so confusing. And then it's like, I never would have killed Fletcher. I never would have killed the baby. It's like, oh, so you just take his mother out? That's cool? What is going on? It's so weird that Lawrence Kasden, one of the great writers we've had,

just had such a loophole in this movie. Yeah, I think that was him trying to get twisty, twisty. Like, it's coming from somebody that you definitely wouldn't think that it was coming from. But looking back, first of all, I don't know why, but I was sure. strangely attracted to the sister when I rewatched. I don't know why. I didn't. I wasn't feeling that one.

When she was, when she was like, you know, working out and he came in there, I was like, okay, all right. I feel you, I feel you,

baby. You can do your thing. But, yeah, the whole thing, it just didn't make very much sense. It, they didn't,

they didn't ever really show Whitney's character mistreating her. They didn't really ever show, it seemed like she was living a charmed life being with her sister and that she had made her own decisions. There's a couple like evil looks. Like they, in the rewatch,

there's like two or three kind of stink faces she was making. But that's it. There's a, there's a gulf, a canyon of space between, my sister's a little annoying because she's entitled as a star. And I'm going to put a hit on my own sister. Like there's a,

there's a gulf, a chasm between those two things. And so when I went, but went back and watched it, I'm like, that's kind of the only thing that doesn't work now. She's drunken confession. The drunken confession is bad.

Yeah. Yeah. The whole not. Also, like, why hire a hitman? You're with your sister every day. It's pretty easy to kill somebody you're with every day. Spike or drink. Spike or drink.

Yeah, do something. Now you're getting really good. You know what else? Age is the worst to me. And just real quick. So the other guy that they had that was actually the crazy guy, right? With the blonde hair. Yeah.

was this guy. There was a period in the 80s and 90s where guys who were crazy and doing crazy shit in movies like this were always like janitorial people or common people or people that were always closing lockers and doing stuff as almost

as Hollywood was actually making a statement about people who either drove buses or drove cabs or cleaned up at stadiums where big time people worked. It was always something like that. I look back on it now and maybe I'm this much of a liberal, but I was like, hey, man, why you got to make the guy, why you got to make the guy like a, like he, you know,

he works at a job, he was looking like a janitor or something like that. Make the guy, I don't know. So minimum wage people bias? Minimum wage people bias. Like they all crazy and then they're going to turn around, even like Buffalo Bill. Like it was like, crazy and they're going to turn around and do some ill

weird shit to people. Nah, man. That's not what we saw. What about the Menendez brothers? Get them on there. The third, so if this movie has four sections, the third section in this movie, all of a sudden, Frank and Rachel aren't in it that much together, and we

just, we go like 30 minutes where they're not in a scene together. That's age badly for me. I don't like seeing Whitney smoke a cigarette. I have a scene where she's on the balcony. I just wouldn't have had that. Maybe 30 years ago, A little more common, but it was just like, I just immediately started worrying about her voice. Like, I just didn't like it.

Protect Whitney. Costa has that weird. What's it? What's he? It's like a black chauffeur line. Or the cocky black chauffeur always dies. Oh, the cocky black chauffeur always dies. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a little like, whoa. Yeah. Robert Will is an Oscar host. Wow. Wow. Wow. Arlis.

This was during a time when real people hosted the Oscars like Johnny Carson and Billy Crystal and Whoopi Goldberg. Robert Will was not hosting the Oscars. He wasn't hosting any name-it-a-word show. Any award show. I just thought that was such a weird thing that they did that. In other words, age-so-warist. That weird, like, almost date rape scene with the guy who ends up trying to kill her? When he takes her in the bathroom and it seems like he's going to choke her for a second.

And then I didn't understand that scene at all. Well, that scene actually doesn't make sense in the movie if we're not supposed to, if we're supposed to be piecing together who this person actually is. Yeah. And for him that have actually been so aggressive with her doesn't make a lot of sense. And another thing that doesn't make a lot of sense about that scene is that if she's trying to make Kevin Costner jealous in that scene, you normally don't get all the way back to the room with the guy. Sure, you go have a drink with him and you go do all of that.

But it just seemed like that kind of was a little contrived when you watch it now. And the fact that she would actually be even kind of half into him, that was an odd-looking fellow. It's like I had a fucked up eye. Yeah, it was like a one guy. Yeah, I didn't get that at all. Very strange. All right.

Let's take a break. We'll do casting with us. If data management is slowing down your business, you need the Intuit ERP. If one entity is here and one here, and one here, and one here, you need the Intuit ERP. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI-native ERP solution that consolidates, migrates, and automates, all in one place. Learn more at Intuit.com slash ERP. I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels,

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See you on the roof. All right, so Casting What Ifs? I mentioned they almost made Kasden's script in the 70s. It was going to be with Ryan O'Neill and Diana Ross. Ryan O'Neill was a major star in the mid-70s. He didn't make it a movie with Barbara Streisand called The Main Event, which was bad. But then, look, this is half-assed. On the internet, it says Ross pulled out of the movie, which is true.

But supposedly she got involved with Ryan O'Neill. And that was why And then they had a bad breakup and that was why she pulled out of the movie. Who knows? It's on the internet. He has a track record. He was Mr. Steel Your Girl.

Like Ryan, nobody had a better 70s than Ryan O'Neill did. Did we ever talk about this? This was the documentary I always wanted to do that would be impossible to do. But Farrah Fawcett being married

to Lee Majors, the $6 million dollar man. Fairfosset's the biggest female TV star in the world in the mid-70s. She's married to Lee Majors, who's also one of the biggest stars in the world on TV.

And he decides she should leave Charlie's Angels because he wants his wife to be home every day when he gets home from dinner. So she actually leaves the show, starts making movies. They date for another year, or they're married for another year. His best friend is Ryan O'Neill.

I'm just telling the audience. You know this. He's a moral. And he's like, hey, I have to leave for six months. Can you take care of my wife for me? He says this to Ryan O'Neill, who could get basically any woman he wanted back then.

And guess what happens? Right. And Neil Farrah Fas have fallen love. So I'll just make a... It's a documentary. It's definitely a documentary. So imagine me, I have a fiancé, Kalika. Like, I tell my fiance, like, I'm gonna be gone for a week.

You know what I want? I've hired... Well, not hired. I've asked my friend Michael B. Jordan to come over here. And I want you to hang out with Michael B. Jordan. For six months. Not a week. Like, yeah.

For like six months, I want you to hang out. hang out with Michael B. Jordan, to your body just can't fucking take it anymore and you have to do it. Every time I hear this story, and rest of the great one. But every time I hear this story, I'm like, and by the way, Fairfawson and Ryan O'Neill ended up being together for a long ass time. Like they were in love, love. Like they were-a-kid the whole thing. The whole nine together for a long time. So it's just one of the most fascinating because he was the guy.

The guy. Also interesting about that real quick. it's interesting that they it's not written into the script that Rachel Marin is black is it is interesting that it was still an interracial couple even when they were flirting with doing the movie in the 70s that's very very interesting to me

yeah I think they just wanted a gigantic star and at that time it's either Streis and Diana Ross how many choices did you have in the 70s not fair enough probably like four yeah yeah that would have been that would have been spicy back in the 1970. Certainly spicy then.

This also would have been spicy. So, Koster, this is true. I did research on this. Koster did say he had been talking to Princess Diana about being the lead of a bodyguard sequel where our guy, Frank Farmer, he's now protecting Princess Diana or somebody who's a princess.

And it was apparently loosely based on her life. Costner said they had real dialogue about it and then she died. Wow. It's hard to imagine Princess Diana acting in a movie, but listen, if Costner could do with Whitney Houston. You ever see that video of her sprinting? Princess Die? Yeah, her just running. She's like trying to win a mother's race in England or something like that, and she is just booking it.

That makes me think she could do it. Like, she was competitive. She was getting up, Bill. You have to see this video. I'll watch it. sometimes for inspiration. I'm going to check it out. So here's the story

behind what becomes the brokenhearted. David Foster, who we should have mentioned, who is heavily involved with the soundtrack of this. Fried Fried Tomatoes comes out. Ruins what becomes the brokenhearted. Foster says, I called Kevin. I said, this is a bummer. He told me to listen to I will always love you.

And he said, that's the perfect song. So I ran down to a record store in Malibu and bought the Linda Ronstad version. That was the only one I could find. The minute I heard it, I knew I could make a work with Whitney, the acopal part was Kevin's idea. And I was like, Kevin, you're a great actor, but that's not a good idea, but I relented. So Whitney's standing in the bottom of the hotel and we're rolling, and she goes, if I, and I was like, oh my God, I was standing beside Whitney's brother, and she turned to me and said, you're witnessing greatness right now. Oh, word. I love that. Word. Classic. All right.

another category. Best that guy, a.k. The Joey Pants Award. Mike Starr has already won this category other times. I have two others for you, though. Frank's dad, he's one of those guys. Oh, is he? Yeah, he just said, no, I've seen him. His name's Frank Ralph Wade. I don't know what else he's been in.

And then Young Fletcher, now grown up is playing Norm Nixon in Adam McKay's Lakers series. Is that true? It is 100% true. Wow. Interesting. I love that. Played Norm Nixon. But Mike stars our winner.

What about Bill Cops? Is Bill Cops? Is Bill Cops, is he too established to have been a that guy? Because he is a that guy. Bill Cubs was that guy, but he's not Bill Cubs. He's been in too many things, don't you think? Probably, but like during this time, he was certainly a that guy. Pops up in this movie, pops up weirdly in Demolition Man.

Then, you know, pops up in New Jack City. He's just like all over the place. but I think he's done it so much to where he's kind of put himself until he's Bill Cobbs and not of that guy. I feel like he's Bill Cubs. The other thing with Bill Cubs is he's basically the same age for 25

years in movies. I don't know how he's one of those guys, you don't know how he pulls it off. Right. Where he's like Wilford Brimley. He's 54 for two decades. He drank the Wilford Brimley Morgan Freeman potion. The Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for overacting.

Obviously the sister has involved this conversation. How about the letters? The letters came first. I don't know who's writing the letters. They're reading my mind. I hate her. I want to give a special shout out to Chris Connolly as the

Oscars pre-show host. Hey, we're here with Rachel. Oh my God. Oh, you're in a movie. He's so over the time. It's like he did 10 pounds of cocaine. What about the, what about side the PR guy? He annoyed me every time.

Yeah. Was he overacting or was he just bad? We should have had him in what stage is the worst. Bad performance. He was, he annoyed me every time he was on screen. He sucked. Yeah. Oh, I had him as the Judd Nelson word for a guy who's in a different movie.

Well, that's, that certainly fits him. Yeah. He does it. He has no, nothing in this film. Was he a good guy? Was he a bad guy? Who liked him? Was Rachel?

At the end of the movie, he takes her, this is a really weird scene. Takes the card. That takes the car where she has the best actress thing on there, tries to wipe the blood off, but he smudges it. Right. Takes it. Yeah, thanks for smudging the thing. And he takes it and puts it in this, it's just weird.

I don't know what that scene even signifies. That was really weird. I agree with you. Dan Waiter's a word. I thought the chauffeur, hit a couple threes, grab some rebounds, and then basically we don't see him for the second half of the movie.

I don't know what happened to him. I don't know whether he got fired or what happened. You want me to do a 180? Like that's a cool little line. Like, no, just drive the car. We don't need you to do a 180. Like, he was cool. But also, I think Portman could be in this one as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Portman was good. I'm going with the chauffeur. Recasting couch. I know you liked her, but I really feel like we could have done better than Rachel's sister. Probably so. Who do you recast?

I really try to think about this because it had to be. somebody, one of my issues with her, she just doesn't look like she'd be Whitney Houston's sister. There's no, there's no commonality at all. And I was trying to think who could have looked like they could have been tangentially related to Whitney Houston

and I had a lot of trouble. Victoria Dillard. Who's that? I don't remember where that is. Okay, so Victoria Dillard was in a movie called Deep Cover. Do you remember Deep Cover? Fishburn, yeah. Like Fishburn,

And then my favorite guy, Jeff Goldblum, and then the black lady in that movie, Victoria Dillard, beautiful, was in a lot of films around that time. Went on to be, she was on Spin City for a while. But I don't think the sister could have been beautiful, though. I think she, that had to tie in, Whitney had to be more beautiful than the sister.

That had to tie in the movie. You hate all, you hate all my little thing thing. I think she was beautiful. Whitney just has to be more beautiful. But I thought about it last night, Victoria Diller could have did it. But I guess if you're looking for somebody that's a little bit more,

I don't like that. I don't want to say, I don't want to take attraction points away from any 80s actors, any 90s actresses. But yeah, I just thought about her when I was thinking about it.

How about Ricky's mom for boys in the hood? Ricky's mom. I think she could have nailed the drinking confession scene. I think she would have done better job. Remember, she came back in white man can't jump and she was actually sexy as hell. And white man can't jump. That's an attractive lady.

It's hard. It's hard. One more recasting couch. What if we spent some money? Because this movie made $450 million. What if we spent a little money in the assassin and went Val Kilmer? Oh, that works. See, that makes more sense.

That makes more sense because if she walks into that park, because Val Kilmer at that point, probably actually look better than Kevin Costner. Yeah, it's at least a race. It's at least a race. So if she sees Val Kilmer and then he's got that swarmy type of, but deal to him. Yeah, that works. Yeah.

That works. Half a Saturday research. Rachel's mansion, the same mansion as? Jack Walts's mansion and the godfather. Wow. She was the best piece ass I ever had, and I had them all. All over. I've had them all.

He never gets that pot. Well, let me tell you, my Crout McFriend. So that is located, if you ever drive around L.A., I don't know why you would ever want to drive by this place, but it's 10-11 North Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills. It is called the Beverly House compound. Beverly House Compound. And apparently was also the Beverly Hills cop the last 20 minutes,

the whole crime scene house. Talking about the we're not going to follow a banana tailpipe where the guys drive up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Victor Maintland's house. Yeah, Victor Maitland's house. During the shooting, Houston gave Koster singing lessons in return got acting lessons. Whitney said,

Kostner taught her to focus on listening and communicating through her eyes when she acted. Good advice. This is sad. Whitney suffered a miscarriage during production.

They had to shut down production for a couple weeks. That's very sad. And then Kazden, the screenwriter, was a huge fan of Akira Karasawa. And that's why

there's samurai bodyguard. a motif. Yeah. And they go to see that movie. Maybe that's actually a little a little bit of a fucking because all film, you like,

you like Carissao's work. Like all film geese. I did it 30 years ago. I can't remember it. Jaimbo means bodyguard in Japanese, if I'm saying that correctly. Interesting. Apex Mountain Costner.

No. It's not. No. I think he already had it. I think his Apex Mountain led to him being able to make a movie like this. Whitney, no. I think it's the Star Spangled Banner. That's one of the most enduring pop culture moments in American history.

I think that's everyone's Apex Mountain, actually. Robert Wohl, it's either hosted the Oscars and the Bodyguard or seven seasons Arliss with Mike Tolan. I love Arliss. You can like Arliss? I share Quimper tickets with Mike Tolan, who was one of the people that created it. And I make Arles jokes. all the time. Sandra O.

Yeah, he had a good cast. Like Sandra, oh, she came from August. Michael Bowman. Yeah. Apex Mountain for Mike Starr. I still think it's dumb and dumber.

I still think it's him choking to death on the pepper. He's just been in so many movies. He's been a lot. Knife throwing? I've seen better knife throwing, but I think the knife throwing's underrated from Costner.

He definitely, like, did the Tom Cruise, learned how to throw knives for four weeks. Oh, excuse me. We missed the scene. I'm so sorry. What scene? The knife throwing scene? No, we missed the fight scene between him and my star in the kitchen.

Oh, I skipped over it, but I, we hit it. I just, we didn't talk about it. Right. Anyway, but yeah, at the end when he just throws the knife, like, yo, I'm serious. Stop fucking with me. Right. And then it's just perfect. Yeah.

Yeah, he's just getting more and more disgruntled that this is still going. jealous sisters we've probably done better but I do said this before in the rewatchables I like when sisters when it gets real deep

and raw and ugly with the sisters in movies I really enjoy it I think it's a whole different level of shit that's should be off the table and it's not

camera rifles no question apex man for sure camera I don't think we ever saw another camera you couldn't touch this It was the best camera rifle usage we've ever seen.

How does this motherfucker get in with the camera rifle, like, as a cameraman? Like, how does that? He just has the swat. I had that for picking nits. I mean, the Oscars has a lot of security. You're not getting in with your camera rifle with the infrared light on it. Yeah, I used to live at the corner of Franklin and LaBreya. Yeah.

Like, right over there. So, like, if anybody that knows L.A., if you live at the corner of Franklin, LaBraia, you walk down to Hollywood Boulevard, you're right there. Stars on the ground. whole thing. I remember going to Fresh and Easy, and they had a fucking robot dog that came over to me to check me for bombs, like a little robot thing. It's like tanks on the street. And all of that, and the guy was telling me, because, you know, obviously he came, the robot dog came over to check me, and I went racial right away. Like, why you got to check me? And it was,

you know what I mean? And so the dude was like, hey, just let you know, it's the Academy Awards and we're doing this whole deal. They do a fucking thing from up under the ground to make sure that nobody is bombing the rail lines, the subway lines underneath the Dobe Theater. It is so, so, so, so hard to get, to breach the Oscars and the fuck over them. Just wouldn't happen. Maybe it wasn't hard until this movie, and they had to reevaluate. They had to change everything.

And some of that's probably post-9-11, too. Yeah, when I was working for Kimmel, in that first season, the first time we had shows during the Oscars, they shut down everything for like eight days before. And we had to park like freaking in the valley and then walk all the way back. It was a nightmare. Some nitpicks. Let's pick some nits. I feel like Rachel would be a little bit more of a narcissist diva given her position in the music stratosphere. where there's just scenes

where it's just like her and one assistant I feel like when you get to that level you never have any moment where there's not six people running around trying to get shit for you doing stuff for you so I didn't feel like they leaned in that enough

at the Oscars so Costner it's he basically rushes the stage to save Whitney but they don't know what's going on yet he's got blood on him and then he pulls out his gun and he shoots camera rifle guy

Right. I feel like they take him down before he even gets those, once that guns out, right? They just shoot him right on the stage. Right. There is hysteria happening, though. So maybe people are a little bit, maybe all the other bodyguards are covering their marks

or whatever the fuck they call them. So maybe, maybe, maybe he could get it out. Okay. I don't know. I got one. Yeah, go. Fletcher's dad. Where's this guy?

Who was it? You think it was like a celebrity? Was it? I have no clue. You think it was the English PR guy? She's going, she's going, she's going through all of this. She's going through all of this shit, right? Nobody, she's going through all of this stuff.

Fletcher's, nobody, we don't even talk about Fletcher's dad. And certainly nobody contacts Fletcher's dad to let him know that, like, because easily, what you could easily do if you don't want Fletcher in harm's way, just send him to be what Pops for a second. sooner to be with even dad's dad, his grandparents for a second. Let's let him go over there until we figure out

what the hell is happening. You think it was like a Kevin Federline situation? Could be. Yeah. Some dude from home. Right. They're just like, let's get this guy away from

our girl, Rachel. Another picket. We never found out if Rachel knew his sister, her sister tried to kill her or not. Feels like that could have been a scene. Yeah, well, she got killed. Did they hide it from her?

If I'm Kevin Costner, I probably wouldn't tell. Yeah, let's have that scene. Let's have her and Bill Cobbs being like, hey, let's not tell her about this. Let's not tell her, yeah. Yeah, cool. Let's go get some coffee. Look, this is a nitpick. This is also coming from my heart.

Okay. One night with Rachel, one night with Whitney Houston, whatever, you're not waking up the next morning or like, I got to get out of this. Yeah, it was weird. Come on, Frank. It was weird. You're not that. loyal to your job. You're going to take two weeks before you play this card.

Even Kalika was like watching the movie and I didn't remember him. So they just have sex. As passionate, it's love. Next morning, yeah. Next morning, he just wakes up and that's how you do it, fam? You're a fuck boy. If you do it

like that, you're a fuck boy. You can't do it like that. You got to, this is how you do that, Bill. You have to methodically cut contact off over the next couple. Like, yeah. Right, right. You don't, like, you know, you can't just wake up.

Like, he had his clothes on. He did the whole nine. And, you know, it's just fucked up. Those are you fucked up, farmer? Very strange. Also, it's Whitney Houston. You're riding that out for a couple weeks. Yeah, of course.

It's a nitpick. I would have consulted one black person as I was making this movie just about the Academy Awards thing. It's felt like that has to get slipped in there. At this point, John Singleton is the first black director we've ever had to get nominated for an Oscar. I think Podier had won.

He'd won an Oscar. Years before. Yeah, in the 60s. Yeah. But no actress. Right. And it just fit. It felt like that,

it should have, that could have been the one point where they acknowledged race and Rachel's black dance where she's just like, I have a chance to be the first black actress to ever win this award. Which is why I, which is, but look, it works in the script as well, which is why I have to go to the thing, even though it's not safe.

Yeah. I have to go to the ceremony if it's not safe because I'm making history. I'm making history. The Oscars themselves kind of were like an afterthought. They didn't seem to be as big of a deal in the movie. They played the Oscars down a little bit. They didn't capture the Oscars very good in the film. Especially with Robert.

Whoa. This slight nitpick, Rachel's sitting at her own pool listening to her own music? Yeah. Eh, that's a little weird. Do you know these types? It's not really that weird.

Okay. These types, you know, you get in the car. It's a certain rapper that I'm friends with. He knows who he is when I listen to this. Getting this car, like, yo, what we vibe into. Yo, man, this is my new shit. My own. My own music.

Turn this shit, bro. I'm not trying to, nah, right? It's too weird for me. It's too meta. Well, I listen to the rewatchable sometimes, so maybe that's weird. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Yeah. Bodyguard shows.

Sure. Sounds great. Let's do it. Probably in answerable questions. So, all right, who did the masturbation on Rachel's bed? It was the blonde guy, right? Was it the guy to the... So was the blonde guy?

So locker room guy was also, like, sneaking under the compound and jerking off on her bed? or was that camera rifle, a rifle assassin guy? Or was it the sister getting some semen from somebody and pouring it on the bed to make it seem like somebody masturbated on it? Could have, but my thing is this, though,

if the sister was doing that, like, why would the sister do that? If the sister actually wants to have her killed, then doing something like that wouldn't do anything but tighten the security around her and spook the people who are trying to protect them. So there's the assassin, that lane is happening. But now we also have creepy locker room guy

who's just like a bed masturbator. Who's just a bed masturbator. He's actually not going to hurt her. He's just crazy as shit. I mean, I don't know if he's going to hurt her or not. Oh, by the way, like going into celebrities' houses and all of that stuff, that actually aged pretty good too

because, you know, over these last 10 years, people fucking figuring out where Kylie Jenner lives and all of that shit. But yeah, so I think he actually was sincerely fucked up, whacked off in the head. Thankfully, bed masturbation never be. became a go-to plot device for creepy people. Right.

All right. Next that, an answer isable question. Why didn't the assassin quit after the sister died? He's been paid. Is it just because she shunned him in the, in the bed that night? Now it's personal?

She said that she didn't even know him, remember? She said that she said that, Oh, you're right. Remember? Yeah, she said that she didn't even know him because remember before he should. shoots, she tries to say, I'm the one who paid for this. And then he says, you're dead.

Fair. Fair. Right. Mike Starr, are we sure he was a good bodyguard? He had his ass kicked by Kostner. He completely mishandled the dance club scene. He confronts rifle camera guy immediately gets poked in the eye. That's it. Did he have a good moment as a bodyguard in this movie? Not to mention, like, people are coming in the compound left and right.

Bad job by him. Terrible bodyguard. All right. What do Rachel's next couple years look like? Her sister tried to murder her for months and then died. Her, she fell in love with the bodyguard who did a one-nighter with her and then ran in the other direction. And then she got shot at the, almost shot at the Oscars. And now she's with this old white-haired guy.

It feels like the wheels are about to come off for Rachel after this. What did Rachel learn? you know i feel like it goes in a bad direction like when i first when i first watched this movie when i first saw this because like they had clips in the i saw the clips in the i will always love you video before the movie actually came out or maybe i will run to you i can't remember but when she gets off the plane and runs to him i thought that that meant that they were going to be together but that's not what happened

no that's they had to obey the song the whole fucking thing is yeah the whole fucking thing is a dub it's a dub i will always love you but we're not we don't don't get to be together. Hell no. All right. Last unanswerable question. Craig, cue the fucking social media camera. I could see this on the ring or Twitter feed.

This is a good one. Most fucked up Oscars moment of all time. Rachel Marin nearly getting assassinated right after she wins the best actress Oscar and Costner saving the day, getting shot, then shooting camera rifle guy in the head and his head explodes. Right.

That's choice A. Choice be the Lala Land Moonlight voting scrub. What was more fucked up? Well, here's the thing. The La La Land Moonlight thing actually wasn't fucked up for me. I thought that was actually hysterical. And by the way, I don't know that there's a funnier moment that you can go back. First of all, God bless Warren Beatty's heart.

God bless Warren Beatty's heart. And the fact that Ryan Gossom, just who, by the way, if I was recasting, if I was doing this movie now, I would do the movie with Ryan Gosling and Rihanna. That's who I would have in the movie. Ryan Gosling and Rihanna. I don't know if Rihanna could film.

Could she film a movie for four months? I think she could. You think she's done it before. But so I'm going to go, I'm going to go with the bodyguard thing because the La La La Land Moonlight mix up is pure fucking comedy. It is hysterical, bro.

Plus one of the great moments of Kimmel's career. People navigated that thing really nice. There's stuff on the internet. I don't know if it's true. I don't know where it came from, but about Tessa Thompson and Chris Hemsworth doing the bodyguard, like talking about it. I think it was the two.

It was Tessa Thompson and one of the Hemsworth brothers. It might have been Liam. It was one of them. But Tessa Thompson was kind of trying to float it out there. I like them. I don't think she's famous. I think it has to be more famous, right? Right.

Yeah, it has to be like a, you want somebody. maybe this is Beyonce's chance again to get back in there and she's too old though how old is she now? The Beehive's going to come at me now Yeah I'm not over 40 though I'm not look I'm not talking about her age

You keep going dig a old But this is like a young on the rise singer Yeah But Beyonce's 39 She's 39 She's still Just know a bill for your own preservation Just say she could do it

Because I know I'm not I just think it's a different movie Rachel's a young superstar in the rise. You'd have to kind of rewrite some stuff. I gave you Rihanna. Like on that level of star, we don't have very many people. I gave you Rihanna. We want the role to go to us.

I gave you Rihanna. So it's either you got two choices, Bill. It's Beyonce or Rihanna. You're going to have to choose. It's not Adele, right? No. You can't have, you can't do Adele. Adele's voice is amazing too.

But we got to keep, we got to come on, we did. Yeah, I got you. We got to stay consistent. We don't take rolls away. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I have a good one. Oh, I want the camera rifle. Oh, I didn't even think of that one.

Yeah. Oh, that's a good one. I wanted the Whitney brooch. Because I could give it to my wife. She could wear it. It could beep. She could beat me. It's like a beeper crossed with a cool brooch.

Right. It's good one. Interesting. Two good choices. Very good. I want to say something real quick. You know the kid who's playing Norm Nixon? Yeah, Fletch. That's his kid.

Fletch is Norm Nixon and Debbie Allen's kid? That kid is Norm Nixon's son. No wonder he's playing Norm Nixon. He is, he is, oh no, it's actually... With Debbie Allen? No, no, no, no, no. Debbie Allen's his stepmom. Oh.

But yeah, he is the son of Norm Nixon, and he's been in a lot of shit. I didn't know Devon was still doing this thing. Shout out to Devon Nixon. Yeah, there you go. Who won the movie? Listen, Costner's great in this movie. No shots fired at Costner that didn't win the movie, but Wendy Houston won the movie.

Whitney Houston won the movie. Easy work. Easy work. This is one of easier ones that you do. Winnie Houston won the movie here. And for those of you who want more Whitney Houston, I would urge you to go into YouTube and just type in Whitney Houston, 1985, Whitney Houston, 1986, just watch young Whitney on these different talk shows, just crushing it.

And then I think she sings, I will always love you and doesn't lip sync it, like actually sings it at maybe the MTV Awards, say 93, 94. She just goes out there and fucking belts it out. Yeah. She was the best. Like literally, you know, it's obviously a tragedy always sad when a life ends the way Whitney Houston's life did. but, yo, Whitney Houston had something special, like almost an unimaginable sound

that, like, really captivated people when she was, you were enraptured by her. It's just, you'd have to be around during that time to really understand, like, what a big fucking deal she was. She was amazing, man, rest and peace. I think I wrote about this once, but my dad and I were going to visit colleges

in, like, the mid-80s. And I think we were at Tufts, and we were looking for a parking place and we parked and Whitney, one of her songs was playing. It was like, Greatest Love of All, or whatever, one of the... And we parked, and then my dad didn't turn off the car. And he's just listening to this song, and I'm like,

what are you doing? He's like, hold on, Whitney really belts out this part. We just sat in the car for like another 40 seconds until Whitney finished the song. I'm like, what other singer would that have happened to? Like, I don't know. Whitney. Nuts.

All right, the bodyguard. check it out. It's actually on showtime. If you have Showtime, it's on the Showtime on demand and all that stuff. So you can get it for free. If you have Showtime. Van Lathen, we can hear you on Higher Learning. Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay. We're having a fun time over there.

All right, great to see you, my friend. Great to see you too. Also, you can hear me on the Ringgiverse. Midnight Boys, Poo-Pew! Always coming to check in with the sports. We got some good nerd stuff coming, right? Oh, my God. We are in... It's a Schmorgasbork. The Renaissance. We got Marvel's What If coming. We got

Shang-she coming. We got different stuff, television and film going on right now. And big news, big news in the nerd circle too. So check in with us. We're going to be doing a lot of great stuff over on Ring ofverse. And check in with Mal as well, House of Mal. It's really great stuff. Ring of Versus is popping. All right. This podcast was produced by our guy Craig Horlebeck. We'll be back with episode 199 in the rewatch. It was next to the week. See you then.