The Rewatchables - ‘The Ice Storm’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

In the fifth and final installment of F’ed Up Family February, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey drop their car keys in the bowl and fire up Ang Lee’s 1997 family drama ���The Ice Storm,’ starring Kevin Kline, Sigourney Weaver, Joan Allen, and Christina Ricci. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you love the rewatchables, you can get the entire library of movies. We're up to almost 225 of them. You can find them all on Spotify. You can find everything new from the last 45 days on this feed everywhere. After that, only available on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Build for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast. because the asks aren't getting smaller, and the timelines?

Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at adobe.com slash Firefly. I sold my car on Carvana last night. Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand. It went perfectly.

Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong. So what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch.

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need a knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this tablewood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on.

Pick up these may apply. We're also brought to by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennacy. You can find the watch with Chris Ryan. You can find the two of them as well as me popping up on the Prestige TV podcast. which is really going to be heating up starting in March. We have a lot of big shows coming.

The three of us as well as a bunch of ringer favorites. We'll be breaking down all those shows as they happen on HBO, on Netflix, on Amazon, on Hulu. A lot of good stuff coming up. So if you like this podcast, I am 99% sure you're going to like the Prestige TV podcast as well. Coming up on this one, it is the final installment of FDup Family February, the Ice Storm. Not a comedy. It is next. Next up will be New Canaan Connecticut.

New Canaan Connecticut next up. Once there was a time when families were strangers. Paul? Hey, Dad. Guy. I'm just confirming you'll be on the 440 on Wednesday, right? So you and your sister can mope around the house, and your mother and I can wait on your hand and foot,

while the two of you occasionally grunt for more food. Neighbors were lovers. You know, I think Elena might suspect something. Is that a new after shape? Uh, yeah, uh, musk or something. And America was learning the truth. Are you watching this? Watching what?

Nixon Dufus. He's a liar. Calm down, I wasn't in on it. It was 1973, and the climate was changing. You can't apply? It's strictly volunteer, of course. A key party? The men put their car keys in a bowl, and at the end of the evening, the women line up and fish them out.

Kevin Klein. Joan Allen, Toby McGuire, Christina Ritchie, Elijah Wood, and Sigourney Weaver. The Ice Storm. All right, Sean Fentany's here. Chris Ryan is here. It is the last installment, at least for 2022 of Fucked Up Family February, a really ridiculous experiment that I fully enjoyed. I don't even care if people liked it or not.

I had a good time. That's really all that matters. That's how I measure this stuff. Maybe it'll come back in 2023. Sean, a lot of meat left on the bone for fucked up family. me movies. This is a critically acclaimed series. I don't know if it's necessarily the people's choice, but it's a cold classic. It'll be like Rocky Horror. They're going to be listening to these podcasts at midnight 20 years from now. We're doing the Ice Storm, which is the last installment and is,

I mean, trying to figure out most rewatchable scenes and stuff like that for this and almost broke my brain. There's really almost no rewatchable scenes other than, um, I mean, I mean, trying to figure out most rewatchable scenes other than other than the key party? Which scene where Elijah Wood stares without speaking is the most rewatchable?

At the same time, really important movie. I think it's aged fantastically. It is a rewatchable movie? I know this because I'll watch it when it's on. I'm like, oh, this movie's on. It takes me into this world

and this moment and this time, 1973. Weird shit's going on. Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich are switching wives. Nixon's happening. It's just getting super weird in general. But, Sean, let's go backwards.

Okay. And, Chris, you're included too in this. 1997 movies from mid-September through December. The Game? L.A. Confidential. The Edge. Ice Storm. Boogie Knights.

Devils Advocate. Gattaca. Starship Troopers. Goodwill hunting. Amistad, Titanic, open your eyes, as good as it gets. Jackie Brown, wag the dog. That's in a 15-week stretch at the end of 1997. And I mentioned that because if the ice storm is made now,

it's a freaking eight-episode Hulu thing and it sucks. All of those movies that I just mentioned are all different and unique. Please subscribe to the prestige TV. All these movies. are different in their own ways. They have awesome, awesome directors or directors at the most famous moment of their careers or directors breaking out like Ang Lee and this. Sean, when I read you that list, did you get nostalgic, sad? What was your reaction? Yeah, I mean, all of those movies except for Starship Troopers, and you could make the case that even that movie is, are all made

for adults. They're made for people who are like 35 years old. And that's obviously not necessarily the way that Hollywood works today. So there's also just some good fortune going on there. You know, like Angley arriving at a time where he's making movies in America for English-speaking audiences. Paul Thomas Anderson hitting the scene loud with his big movie. James Cameron making what would become his most successful movie. Like some of that is just good luck and good fortune. And some of it is what people wanted to see at the movies, you know? I mean, Amistad, it was probably my least favorite movie of all the movies you just named. And it's an incredible period piece from Stephen Spielberg.

So it's just, it's a testament to how differently the industry works now. Chris? They had us then, man. Like, you know, we just didn't have a lot of options. 97 is before, right before cable gets, cable TV gets incredible. And you start to get this revolution going on on HBO. And these were, like Sean said, the adult movies that, I think even for people who were younger like me and Sean when we were going to see these, it kind of gave us this window

into grown-up behavior, which is actually like the theme of this movie, is like what children learn from their parents anyway. I, this was the last winter before I met my wife. I was actively dating in 97. Yeah, key parties. Let's go.

That wasn't at the key party stage. Of those movies I listed, which is five, 15 movies, I saw 13 of those in the theater. The only ones I didn't see in the theater are Amistad and Open Your Eyes, which I didn't even know about until, I don't know, three years later it was on TV and I was like,

what is this? And then two hours later, you just feel like you hadn't out-abody experience. Ice Storm totally made sense in the prism of wherever that was, you know, where it was like, all right, Kevin Klein, Sigourney Weaver, Joan Allen, it's 1997 or 1973. There's some kid actors. But the key party was part of the sale of this movie. It was like, we're going to see some swinging. We're going to see some stuff.

And then the reviews come out. It's like, this is pretty dark. And I'm still thinking, yeah, but swingers, 1973. And then you go to the movie. The last 25 minutes is like being, having a drill put to the side of your head. It's painful. It's painful. It's grim.

But it's really an exceptional movie. Yeah, you have to look at this movie in its totality. There are some rewatchables that we do where the scenes stand out. So, you know, while I adore the totality. of Michael Clayton. There are like five or six moments in Michael Clayton that you'll just be like, I want to watch this when it comes on. The Ice Storm kind of needs to be seen as a total package. And even, you know, you're joking around about like it's hard to break down most rewatchable scene. The feeling like as the night goes on the Friday after Thanksgiving and it just gets more

and more and more ominous and more and more drunken and more and more reckless and the way they cross cut between the three different storylines, it's more of like a poem than it is short stories, right? Like you kind of feel like you need to experience the entire thing every time, which may mean you don't watch ice storm once a year. But when it's on, you're like, I got to see this through to the end. It's based on Rick Moody's 1994 book who saw a cut of it and cried at the end and was like, my God, they got it. So if you, just hearing that, I can't imagine what the book was like. The cool thing, though, is Angley, this was his first in America movie. So he had to kind of throw himself into what America was like in 1973.

He's coming at it almost like a fresh fish at water looking at it and somehow nails it. He nails a lot of stuff that was happening. Oh, go ahead. Sorry, Sean. I was just going to say, I mean, the movie he makes before this is Sense and Sensibility, which is an English story. And he's coming from Taiwan. And he talks about this all the time because he's got this incredible reputation for being

a person who basically takes on a completely different kind of story every time he makes a movie. He probably has the most varied filmography of any major director in the last 30 years. He's made a superhero movie. He's made a martial arts movie. He's made serious dramas. He's made comedies. He's really done it all. And the thing with him is he always says the same thing over and over again, which is movies are sight and sound. What does it look like and how does it sound? It's not about language. It's not about the words. It's about how does it sound? What is the behavior like? What is the interaction of the characters like and what does it look like and what are the pictures on screen tell you about the story you're trying to tell? And it's like he really just boils it down

to the ultimate essence. So it's not that hard to believe that this guy who came over from Taiwan could actually capture exactly what's happening between these two families in this very specific period of time. He's got the source material of the book. He's got basically like the best possible cast you could have for this movie. It's just one of the most perfectly cast movies ever. and so it's not stunning. And he's like has proven now time and time again Brokeback Mountain and you know many times over the years that he is a master of like teleporting

into new worlds every time he makes a film. But that said, this movie has a secret sense of humor that you wouldn't necessarily think it does by looking at the material on paper or by having someone at a cocktail party described to you the movie that you just watched or even Bill by you like setting up the movie.

It's got a really dark, funny undercurrent to it that you kind of have to give yourself over to because if you take it too seriously, you'll be like this movie is a major bum out. But if you see that this is like a little bit of a satire of these people's lives while also having some tragedy in it, I think it makes it a much better movie watching experience. Bill, you know what I wanted to ask you is like when we did the JFK pod, you talked a little bit about needing some time to go by for for America to be ready to hear about that story and also like for Oliver Stone to be ready to tell that story and specifically in the way he wanted to tell it. What do you think about like the need? Do you think there was a need

to have a couple of decades go by from the early 70s to kind of be able to tell the story the way Sean's describing it with this somewhat satirical eye? Because I find the movie to be very realistic in like its setting and it's and the like the production design and the way it like New Canaan looks. and then the performances within the movie are a little dialed up a little bit. Like Kevin Klein is just doing like instead of being at a 70s at like an 8.5 and you know,

Toby McGuire is at like a 7.5 instead of a 6. Like everybody's doing a little bit of like a heightened version of reality. But I was curious whether or not you felt like we needed some time to sort of grapple with the end of Nixon, the sexual revolution petering out east, you know, all this stuff that this movie kind of takes on.

Yeah, well, we always say the nostalgia thing is like about 20 years, right? Takes about 20. But that's not what we're doing now. Now we're like, oh, this happened six months ago. Let's make a show about it. Yeah, true. But I mean, I think about like the context, this is going to be weird, but the Brady Bunch. So when I was a kid and I'm a child of the 70s and it was Gilgan's Island Brady Bunch,

no matter where you lived in America, at some point that was either a syndicated hour or syndicated two hours. So all of us, we knew all the Brady Bunches, which wasn't even that popular of a show. And the Brady Bunch had a lot of subtext underneath it, right? That when you were a kid, you didn't notice, but as you got older, you're looking at it and you're going,

wait a second, it's going on there. And then the movies come out in that 90, you know, 91 and 92 range. They make the Brady Bunch movie, which is a parody of the Brady Bunch. And it taps into a lot of that stuff. And that becomes a big, big movie, big enough that they made a sequel. And at the same time, S&L is on, and they're doing

a lot of nostalgia stuff, and they're going backwards, and they're having a lot of fun with the Partridge family and all these shows that I grew up with. Then you see friends and reality bites and these different things from that 92 to 95 range. And a lot of it is about the characters connect with each other through the nostalgia. So I think in pop culture, it was there in a lot of different ways. Like, even think about Weasor, the Buddy Holly video, and they're in the Happy Day set. Yeah. So it was a lot of, like, pulling back 20 years.

And I think that went on for a few years. And then we hit the kind of, well, wait a second. It wasn't all just fun in games. And all of a sudden, it led to, like, the Ice Storm stuff and people reexamining, you know, Nixon. And it just got, when did Oliver Stone make the Nixon movie? 95. Yeah, 95. So mid-90s, it starts to be like, hmm, this wasn't just like, ha-ha, what was really going on in the 70s?

So I don't know. I don't know if that made sense, but I always thought Ice Storm needed to be in the mid-90s for it to make, be a movie that made sense. I think there's a really interesting movie to pair this movie with that's called Bob and Carol and Ted Nalice. It's a late 60s movie, Paul Mazurski movie, which is about two couples that are kind of exploring the early stages of the sexual revolution and of this kind of like elevated transcendental meditation commune style of living experience. And it's also a satire and also a little bit funny, but it is about kind of being at the forefront of that while also being a yuppie. This movie is about not just being 25 years later, but being at like the end of that. You know, like, 1973 is when this is over. And so these like

lame yuppie parents are trying to catch up to what the youths were doing five years ago. And that's part of why it's such a joke. It's part of, I mean, there's tragedy, like I said, like laced throughout the movie. But, you know, you were sending us screenshots of the key party yesterday on text, Phil. And it's like, you can't look at that and be like, they're not having fun with this.

They're having so much fun with this. They're also, they're co-opting the rhetoric of like a revolutionary time to rationalize adultery. You know? I mean, Kevin Klein is having an affair in this movie before he kind of really understands the logistics of a key.

party or swinging or wife swapping or whatever you want to say. And I always thought that that was the most like sort of barbed kind of thing in the book and in the in the movie is this, these people who were basically like taking on something that was supposed to be, I think sincerely a challenging of the paradigm of American marriage and everything and be like, oh, so this means I can cheat on my wife and get away with it. This is great. Right. Well, going back to the nostalgia point, so the doors, which we did in the rewatchables, that came out like 91. And that was, during that era of, let's really reexamine in the most fun way these people from the 60s and 70s. The ultimate nostalgia old school version of this was Forrest Gump, which we've also done on this.

Forrest Gump's like, let's go through the 50s and the 60s. Oh my God, he got to meet LBJ and it's just like playing, it's like nostalgic karaoke, basically. And I do think at some point people kind of looked at each other and said, if nostalgia's working, then we got to, let's really unlayer this. a little bit. Let's go a little bit deeper. It wasn't just, oh my God, they were crazy clothes in the 70s. But at the same time as all this is happening, you could see it at weddings. Like the weddings I was going to, starting in like 93. It was all 70s music, right? It was like this real renaissance of, oh, the 70s were so much fun. And I think that's why this movie hit at such a good time, because it's basically, it's pointing out what Sean said, which another thing that, another,

it was a TV show, not a movie, but Mad Men hit. this really well. When Don Draper near the end, he's not cool anymore. Yeah, he's out of step. And the 70s are changing and he's trying to figure out how to fit in with what's happening, which, you know, that's basically the Kevin Klein character in this, right? Very much so. I mean, this happens over and over again. Like our buddy Chuck Losterman has a book out called The 90s. You know, the show is called The Rewatchables. Frequently, we are looking at movies from the 90s. I think that it's something that makes people feel comfortable is returning back to these moments. moments, but the best art that is made about these things is usually about what was kind of really

going on or really under the surface. Like that Brady Bunch movie point you made, Bill, is such an interesting one because it did take that subtext and make it text. The Ice Storm, I think, is still a subtext movie. It's not quite, like, it's not announcing it, but it comes pretty close to announcing it when you have a character, open the movie, reading the Fantastic Four, and at the end of the movie, he is reunited with his, you know, the four family members who each represent, like, a part of the fantastic four. Yeah. So there's like, it's right on the line of like announcing its themes and it never totally gets there. Bill, I wanted to ask you another one just because you've got. Have I been in a key party? Is this how? Yeah. Uh, I, you mentioned Gilligan's

Island and Brady Bunch. The thing I noticed this time around, but this movie is the hypnotic power of television and the way the kids watch TV in this movie where they're absolutely transfixed. And they're like, didn't you hear explosions going off outside? And they're just like, what? You know, not to be like, was it like this in the 70s or when you first started watching TV? But I think this is like a pretty, it is a pretty interesting and subtle depiction of how mass media kind of started to take over the minds of people. Not that it hadn't before, but just, you know, Wendy, who doesn't probably have practical experience with most of the things that she's talking about or doing in this movie, like, is learning everything about the world through the fall of Nixon. Totally agree. I was thinking about this during the Winter Olympics. In 76 and 80, I watched, like, an incredible amount of the Winter Olympics, because what else was I going to do? You know? I was like, oh, cool, the Winter Olympics around. Here's something to watch. So that scene really resuminated.

to be in the basement because that's what would happen. It was before video games, too. Like, we didn't have anything. I've talked about before, like, this is 100% true. There's a dump in Chestnut Hill behind the Chestnut Hill Mall a little further down. And we would just walk down and go there and we would see if we could find baseball cards. It was like, it's been an afternoon there at the Chestnut Hill dump. Like, it was a real thing that we did.

There wasn't a lot going on. So when you watch it in the 1973 context, it makes sense that this kid's like, I'm going to go out on the deck and with my sword and just fuck up the roses and send my plane with fireworks on it. Like, what else was he going to do? Is it freaking New Canaan? He's in the middle of nowhere. This movie has the ultimate example of that, which is that at the end of the movie, a character has so little to do with his life that during an ice storm, which is literally

the most uncomfortable weather experience ever, he's like, I'm going to go play outside. I'm going to go slide around. That's insane that he did that, but he's clearly got nothing going on, that that is entertainment for him. Yeah, we had that during the Blizzard in 78 when we got like three and a half feet and it was like just went out and played in the Blizzard. Probably wasn't that safe in retrospect.

But, you know, my parents, all right, we'll see later. Have fun in the Blizzard. We talked about the key party. Should we take a break? I really want to dive into the key party. Great. All right, we'll take a break. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide

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There's an $18 million budget. I was going to say, $8 million. I think out of all the movies we've done this might have been the least successful at the box office. I don't remember 18 million to make eight. Seems pretty grim. Usually at least like the cult ones, they at least broke even.

This one did not. It was very well reviewed, we'll get into later. But the key party became the thing and be kind of, you know, boogie nights is the same year and that had a whole thing about,

he's got a huge slong and in the end he breaks it out. And it's kind of became like jaws where it's like, oh my God, what's this thing going to look like? The key party. Incredible comp.

Yeah. The key party was the same thing. It's like, ah, there's a key party and all the couples split off. Why didn't you guys ask PTA that? Yeah. Why do you hide the monster

to the end? Yeah. Well, listen. He fucking. pulls it out. Like they really kind of own the moment. I've seen the film, Bill. I've seen the film. It's not a brief moment. He's out there and you could argue

he invented the talking penis gimmick in a lot of ways that we've seen in 2022. But the key party was a real thing. And I immediately thought it was funny, just for the record. Like, in the theater, I was delighted. I have all the same humor

now that it did then. The one not skinny lady in the front who gets taken and None of the guys want a claimer right away. And just all the dynamics of it and Kevin Klein getting bummed out. I just like that, am I wrong to think that could have been an hour of this movie? I mean, they tantalized this with it, but I was ready for a whole, I don't know.

I wanted more. Chris, you got 10 years of key parties under your belt. So please. Yeah, how accurate was it? You know, how does it compare to your experiences? It's just, Tesla's really made this weird because the key bomb, you know, you're at, something and seven guys have a Tesla and you're just like, you can pick your phone in.

Yeah. Yeah. Is this Marty's Tesla? Is this? You know, like, um, I think that, you know, you made the joke about if this had been a, if it was a Hulu show, I would want this to be a two-parter. I would want it to be continued when the Reverend leaves or something. Oh, yeah.

There's so many things like I, I feel like I was going through this. Like, I needed a telestrator, you know. Oh, yeah. I needed announcers. What rooms are people going in? What cars? Little side comments. that different husbands make,

looks that are exchanged across the room, the relief that one couple has when they pick one another. And they're like, well, that's against the rules. And they're like, that's okay. We're going to go home. You know, it's like there's so many levels to it. It's fantastic. Who do you think we would be the best announcers for it, Bill?

You think it's like Nancy Romo? Oh, Romo. Romo could match the excitement. I like Nancy Romo. What a moment. A lot of hyperbole. And then also Romo trying to jump. Like, I think Allison Janie's going to get Ben.

Jim, he's going to get Ben! Well, it does, you know, it does the adults in this situation in this, even though it was 1973, I do think there's this moment when your kids get a little older and you see with all your friends and it's usually like the kids,

either they're as old as the kids in this or maybe they're a little younger or whatever where the parents are kind of like, all right, we had kids, I'm stuck with this person, what's next? And you could see in the 70s, especially like with this, liberation thing going on that a key party would suddenly make sense. It's insane. It's just insane that

it was like, so how to go in the Buick, like that you end up going driving home together at the end of it. It's, I just can't wrap my head around it. We grew up that like until I don't know, I mean, maybe, Bill, you know better than we would at this point, but like parents had social lives. Like when you watch this movie, it's just, it's not actually that foreign from what I grew up with. I mean, I didn't witness any key parties, but like my parents would come home after having a couple of pops out somewhere. You know what I mean? My parents partied. You were not hidden from like the fact that

your parents did also have a life outside of picking you up and dropping you off at practice. Yeah, there's no question. Until about two years ago when the pandemic happened. But yeah, it's you know, at some point especially back then, you're leaving your kids

alone during the era where you trusted your kids when they're just basically going to disappear for now, it's like, I think, a little more hands on. I don't, I don't think kids in 2022 are sliding down the hill on an ice storm. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this before too. Like, I think all three of us were raised in a way where it was sort of like, it's Saturday at 9 a.m., good luck to you. You know, like, the world is your oyster child. Just don't come back till 5 p.m. And obviously, like, people aren't parented

that way anymore. But the funny thing about the key party to me is just how fumbling it is. I mean, no one, there's maybe one pairing where people are like, let's fucking go have sex and forget about our partners. But otherwise, like, every other person who's involved in this is either scared or confused. And it's like, it is a, it's a stunt. Or Allison Janney, who seems like the most excited. She's like an Oscars host. She kind of looks like Jaws in that scene. You know, she's like ready to eat everyone. She's so fired up. But, you know, like, no one really knows what to do. It's like they feel compelled to socially participate in this gimmick,

but they know that it's like really not the right thing to do and that there's some discomfort going on. And again, it's like they're at the end of something trying to catch up. They're not innovators in any way. It's like they read about a key party and a good housekeeping, you know?

And they're like, okay, I guess this is what we do as couples in 1973 now. It's like the real revolution is making your private life public at this time. You know, And it's like all the stuff that they talk about at the first dinner scene that Kevin Klein and Joe and Allen go to where they're talking about couples therapy and, you know, who's seeing who as a therapist. Are you continuing with that therapy and stuff like that? That seems if that feels very raw and that seems like something that you wouldn't have discussed in company up until that point, basically, because you see all the books that Joe Allen's looking at.

Like this was also like a kind of a little bit of an intellectual revolution where a lot of these ideas were kind of making their way to, you know, book sales outside of a city hall in suburban Connecticut. I don't know. I mean, like, Bill, didn't you spend a lot of time in a place like New Canaan growing up? Yeah, I was going to talk about that. I just wanted to add to what you're saying. Like, Deep Throat comes out a year before, right? There's sexual, there's like some weird sexual awakening going on that I think has

happened at different points since I've been alive. But the internet obviously was a big one. But you know, you think about the different stages we've had. Deep Throat, people went in the theater and sat next to each other and watched Deep Throat. And basically from 1985 to 1998, people went to video stores and went into a special room that had those little swinging cowboy doors and grabbed a couple porn tapes and then walked right up to the counter and made eye contact with the guy and bought and rented some porn for the night. And if you happen to be a 13-year-old guy in the late 80s, you knew the exact spot in the video store that you could stand while pretending to look at a regular movie,

but still get like some kind of angle into the back room. So you could see the covers. I mean, this was an era of like people watching. I remember being in Friends House and they would have like whatever the Playboy channel or whatever, but it would be the, it would have the squiggly things on it. So you would change the channel back and forth, 100 town? You come back, you get a second.

And then all of a sudden it would be squiggly again. but you could hear some noises. I'm like, oh, my God. And now you think, like, porn is so accessible. It seems completely insane that people would even have to have a key party. But 1973, some weird shit going on. I just did a pod with the director,

Alex Ross Perry, and we were talking about the Texas Chainsawin Massacre movie. And how, like, over time, there are these moments where the culture coursens because of what's happening in the world. And, like, Texas Chansdowne Masker, the first one is 1974. Deep Throat is 1972. this movie takes place right in between those two things.

And the movie makes a really clear point to situate Watergate at the center of what's happening in the world at this time. And you've got teenagers watching on TV, basically learning in real time that the president of the United States is a big crook, that he's a conspiratorialist crook. And that... But right on the heels of JFK getting assassinated and people start in a wonder, was he killed by his own government? Because this is the 10-year anniversary, right? Yeah. And so, you know, you smash together something like that with the sexual revolution. And, like, people are more comfortable with the idea of pornography.

They're more comfortable with the idea of, like, making fun of authority and challenging power. And you blend all this stuff together and you end up with, like, really disgusting horror movies. You end up with really intense sexual situations in mainstream pop culture. And all of this stuff. And it happens like it happened in the 90s. You know, what's happening with Pam and Tommy is a reflection of what's happening in the White House. Is a reflection of what's happening with the movies that we get in the late 90s? Like, all of these things are often kind of talking to each other.

This is one of the few movies that I think really, like, elegantly triangulates all of that stuff. You know, like, seeing Nixon on the TV screen in the movie handled poorly would feel like really, really, like, straining to make a point. But you believe every second that Wendy is kind of obsessed with this and that she's the kind of person who as a teenager in 73 would be so locked in on this that it would inform, like, you know, the Thanksgiving Day speech that she gives. where she's like, I want to thank our forefathers for slaughtering the Indians. That's such a crazy thing to imagine. Come on, Wendy. Yeah, exactly. If she's this media addicted teenager, it totally makes sense.

Yeah, Nixon has a funny relationship to this movie. He's in the poster right next to the kid's bed in boarding school. He gives a speech where he's full of shit as always. He's in a Nixon mask as two kids are fooling around. Like, he's kind of hanging over this whole movie. to answer what Chris asked before about New Canaan. You know, I went to high school in that part of the Connecticut. And it's really like that.

It's just really spread out. I was at multiple houses at parties that were a lot like Kevin Klein's house or Sigourney Weaver's house in that movie. The split level? Weird. Split level. You feel like if you died there, nobody would find your body for three days. There's not another.

You could walk to somebody's house, but you got to go through the woods. It's weirdly safe. probably a ton of drunk driving, especially in the 70s and 80s. You're not really near a highway for 10, 12 minutes. I've had four gins, but I think I know that every turn by heart, so let's just give this a shot. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're not kidding, brother.

Those are different times, even in the 90s. I'll just leave it at that. A lot of mistakes were made. But yeah, you're just out remotely. And it's wealthy people or, you know, fairly wealthy people who their kids. Kids are growing up and they're starting to get a little weird. And either they just take off and they go, like, we're going skiing for four weeks. Like, watch the house, Johnny.

And guess who's house we went to for two weeks? Johnny's, yeah. Yeah. Hey, Johnny's parents are gone again. Where's Johnny now? Oh, there's a lot of Johnny's not doing great. Is he 11worth? What's he doing?

Yeah. Johnny's not. I mean, one of my best friends, Jim Grady, who I've been friends with since the mid-80s. he was the youngest, pretty by a few years in his family and his dad died and his mom got a house, got an apartment in New York City. And it was just him. And he had an awesome house with the basement and guess what? We spent a lot of time at Jim Grady's house.

We used to joke that he had a black sheep older brother named Cliff living in the attic and be like, is Cliff going to come down? There was nobody there. And he was like 16. So we went there. But that's what that area is. Let me tell you something. This may come as a surprise given whatever my, whatever you guys think about me. But when I was 13, 14, 15, my mom had two jobs and she had a boyfriend. And so I was Jim Grady.

I was the person who everybody came to our house. Come over. Yeah. They're like, every Friday night, there was a party at my house because it was a place where you could drink. Were you like put a coaster down? That's, that's you attending parties in adulthood at my house. But back then I could care less. you know, fuck up my house, it's fine. People are having parties and Sean's like, I want you to watch Gordon Willis' cinematography.

John Cazal's face. There's a great moment at the end of this movie where Wendy comes into the Carver's house. And before she sees Sandy, she just like absent-mindedly stops by this other family's fridge and looks

in the fridge. And I did that. I used to just, you would go over and you wouldn't be like, do you think it would be okay if I have some water? You just be like, hey, how's it going, Mrs. Whatever? And then you would go into this other person's fridge and be like, you got to diet Coke, you know, like you would just be like, it was like you acted like you kind of had this. I mean, the neighborhoods in those areas, like they collectively raised children, but you actually did weirdly have like privileges in people's houses. And the same was true for our house where, you know, like people would just kind of like raid your fridge, hang out. It's like,

if Chris isn't home yet, I'll just go up to his room and start. watching TV without him. Like, that was just like, it's a very fluid kind of raise yourself vibe. Would you also pull the, if you show me on, if you show me mine, I'll show you yours,

you know, like to trade off in the bathroom with folks in those ones? Yeah, but only with a full doll of leather face. Yeah, that was a huge Philly thing back then.

The Wikipedia of this movie says, set during Thanksgiving, 173, the Ice Storm is about two dysfunctional New Canaan and Connecticut upper class families who are trying to deal with tumultuous social changes

of the early 1970s in their escapism through alcohol, adultery and sexual experimentation. It about sums it up. Yeah. Just quickly to put a bow on the ribbon of a ribbon

on the bow, bow on the ribbon, put a bow on it. Just put a bow on it, yeah. I'll just put a bow on it. Let's put a ribbon on it. Angley comes from Taiwan.

Yep. Now he's staying faithful of the book obviously, but he fucking nailed it. And you know, I think about like the movies that he made, which I guess I don't love all of his movies, but there's a couple that I really loved and I thought were distinct. This one

and broke back, they have no relation to each other at all, but there's a similar vibe to them with how he advances his story, how he uses like almost no dialogue sometimes, how he sets scenery, and it was like what you were

saying earlier, Sean, about the two things that he cares about, but it's weird. You can tell those movies they're made by the same director, right? Totally. You just nailed it, Bill, which is the thing that his superpower is what's unsaid between characters. This movie is all about what is unsaid between characters. Same thing and broke back. You totally understand the relationship between Jill and Hall and Heath Ledger in that movie, even though they very rarely say how they're feeling. And that's an incredible skill that he has. And a lot of it is in the writing. too. Like James Seamus, who wrote the screenplay and adapted the book and has been his producing partner and screenwriter for a long, long time. Like, those guys are thick as thieves. They know exactly,

he knows what Ang is really good at. Ang knows what Seamus is really good at. So they consistently have movies like this where you're like, even if you don't like the story, like, I don't really like the story of his Hulk movie. I don't think his Hulk movie is very good, honestly, but I know what he's going for. You know, he's going for a very similar thing. There's like this battle inside of a man. There's the two sides of a man that he's really interested in that. And so at, at, worse, all of his movies I think are at least interesting to think about. Yeah, he's really good at depicting loneliness. Both this and broke back, I think, about how many moments in those movies that a character

on screen is like, even if they're with someone, so like in the scenes where Jillahall Ledger are with Michelle Williams or Anne Hathaway, you can detect, like, how lonely they feel, even though they're with these women. And in this movie in Ice Storm, you know, like, Sigourney Weaver mostly has like very, like, barbed dialogue. Like, she's genuinely pretty, like, dismissive of other people in her life. But, you know, the last thing you see of her is she just, like, curled up on a bed by herself. Like, she is ultimately a very lonely person. Like, the Jamie Sheridan character, his son not recognizing whether or not he's been home or not for the last couple of days is just, like, haunting this movie where he's just,

like, nobody gives a shit about me. Like, that seems to be the feeling that almost everybody in this movie has. Kevin Klein just wants somebody to listen to him to talk about golf. You can't find anybody. Yeah, that seems funny. All right. So, Roger Ebert, our guy. Well, Cisco loved it.

Roger Ebert's been on an absolute heater rivaling Pedro Martinez 1999. Four stars for this one. Despite its morden undertones, the film is often satirical. Yeah.

Oh, he's in a run. Often satirical, frequently very funny, quietly observant in its performances. I agree. It was Siskel's favorite movie of 97. Nobody loves a fucked up movie like this more than Gene Siskel. We mentioned the silences and the unspoken stuff. Kind of seems like it's a hallmark of fucked up family February. We were talking about last week with Kramer versus Kramer, too, about, you know, especially

if there's no action, if there's not a lot of sex, there's some sex in this movie, there's no horror. Like, you know, you almost need some of that stuff to. advance the story, but Angley, very good at it. Anyway, let's do most rewatchable scenes. I don't even know how we do this. I don't even think these, I wouldn't even say these are most rewatchable, but just a couple that I thought were good. The first dinner party scene, when they spill the wine, but then afterwards, they're all hanging out. It's like, what the fuck is going out of these people? Yeah. What is this conversation? Everyone's kind of sitting next to their spouse, but nobody seems to like their spouse. It just, it sets the tone. People

70s close. You mentioned the Kevin Klein, Sigourney Weaver, affair reveal, which he's having sex and he rolls over. It's like, oh my God, that's Sigourney Weaver. That's not your wife.

And then he's just babbling about golf and she says, You're boring me. I have a husband. I don't particularly feel the need for another. You have a point there. That's a very good point. We're having an affair.

Right. Tough beat. Yeah. I know Chris, you like to have some conversation with your, you know, with your casual sex partners. Like, it's not just...

Especially about golf. I'm like, I can't fix the slice. God damn it. Next one is when Klein is left alone in Sigourney Weaver's house. She's like, I'll be right back. I have a lot of questions about that scene, but we can get for that.

She just goes. And then Elijah Wood and Christina Ricci show up. This is the Nixon mass scene. Yeah. And Klein comes down. no explanation why he's in the house, although obviously we all know. And he's like, what do I think?

I think you're probably touching each other. I think you're touching that reckless jerk off for God's sake, and I think he's trying to get into your slacks. I think you're probably touching each other. He's like so, so he just skips over the Nixon mask, though. He just doesn't, like, he doesn't get scandalized by it. I was trying to think, like, obviously my son, you just never know with that kid, like what my reaction would be if I walked in on him

lying on top of somebody wearing a Nixon mask, I would be way more horrified, just for the record. It's one of the most unnerving scenes in a non-horror movie in film history. Like the idea of discovering your daughter wearing a Nixon mask while being groped by a teenage boy, nightmarish.

In general, this movie does a really good job of handling Christina Ricci, who's obviously going through some sort of awakening herself. But I never want to see that in a movie ever and they do it in a way that it makes sense. And I, you know, it obviously is uncomfortable a couple times, but I never felt like it was exploitative. I thought it really made sense for the movie.

I don't know. I thought it, I think it's very, it's like pretty appropriate. Considering how, you know, gnarly it can get, it's like that whole scene where she's, you know, and when he leaves with her after he discovers her with the Nixon mask, and they're walking on the path. And then he's like, are your feet cold? cold and he picks her up to carry her for the rest of the way. And it's like that perfect

snapshot of that time in a child, a kid's life where they're really longing to be older than they are. Yeah. But they still have some childhood to them. You know, they still have like this innocence to them, even if they're also like doing like having sexual relations with people while wearing presidential masks. So yeah, I thought, I think that he just is, they've got like such a great eye for detail when it comes to stuff like that. I think it's also, so clearly a representation of how you can't help but imitate your parents in ways and that like she's observing the way that her father acts and maybe she doesn't specifically know that he's having an affair but something's going on his dad is really weird we'll definitely talk about the car ride

scene probably in the next that might be the next scene you you point out bill but like Kevin Klein is an odd dude that character and of course he has an odd daughter who is like exploring herself and sex and ideas of, you know, politics and conspiracy and all this other stuff. So it's not, it seems like it was a very sensitively made movie. And I agree, it never feels exploitative with her or any of the other kid characters. Well, they had that, I should have mentioned it, when Toby McGuire comes home from school and he goes in and sees his sister, and he's like, hey, Charlie. And she's like, hey, Charlie.

And they made it like, what's up with mom and dad? You know, they know their parents are weird. What's going on? I think they're going to stick together. That's like the first topic. Four more scenes. The car ride to the key party and Kevin Klein and Joe Allen debating on whether they're, you know,

what's going to happen is just really good. That's when it all comes simmering up. Always enjoy when that happens. Leave on. John, I don't necessarily love just Katie Holmes passing out. and like that just it doesn't really have a payoff because it just kind of abruptly ends. But I just loved hearing Leavon by Elton John.

I always thought that was a completely underrated Elton Johnson. Top five, Elton John song. I'm with you 100%. What kind of name is Libets? When I was in college, my freshman year, I was in a room next, Jacko and Nick Ieda were on one side of me. And on the other side was my friend the Birdman, who I would eventually live with.

I like how you identified Nick Ieda as Nick Ieda, but the Birdman is the Birdman. The Birdman. Birdman, big wrestling fan. And I would knock on his door. I would take a whole thing of baby powder, and he would open the door, and I would whip the baby powder in his head

and pretend I was attacking him, like, WW. So we were like, we had a whole wrestling thing over and over again. Okay. Anyway, one day, I'm like, you know that first couple months in college you get deathly ill? and you're just in bed and you just but stuff's going around

and nobody cares that you're sick but I'm just lying I had the sweats I'm dying and it's super quiet in the hall it's like one o'clock and the bird man comes home

and puts on out and John he puts on leave on and he starts singing it and he's doing he shall be leave on

and he's doing the whole thing he doesn't realize that he went home and then it ends and he presses play and he runs back. He does a double Leavon. So then I get out of bed. I'm like,

dude, man, I'm really sick. And he's like mortified. And it became a running joke for 35 years. So I love Levan more than most. I don't know if you had those moments in college where you have that one funny moment. You can lord over your friend for the rest of his life. That was mine. The key party itself for a rewatchable scene.

Oh, my own husband. Isn't it against the rules? Try again. No. No, no, thanks. That's fine. Yeah. They break it up.

It's too good just to run all in... Yeah. Like, they come back to it. All of a sudden, there's one key left. Kevin Klein's passed out in the bathroom. And then, uh, look, it's not rewatchable to watch Elijah would die. It's pretty horrible. But the whole electrocution scene is just fucking brilliant.

Oh, my God. It's like a horror movie. Yeah. and him looking at the thing, him sitting on there, and you're just like, stand up, get off that thing. Doesn't get up. Just the way it shot all of it. The ice, I don't, there's some,

how do they do that with this movie? Where you're like, how do they do that with all the ice? The effects of the ice is like, it's pretty amazing. I don't know how they did that, especially in 1997. I feel like we have better technology now. I don't know.

I think there's a strong case to be made that like, it's an hour and 40 minute movie and the final 30 minutes are all three stories. brands basically like bouncing one to the other to the other. And it's really, really expertly done where you, like, you know exactly where you are in each story. And that culminates in this, in this big epic tragedy. But it really, it's as close as the movie feels to being novelistic. You know, like, you know, when you're reading a novel and it has three different story tracks. And either within the chapter or each chapter goes to like a new part of the story. So it feels, I mean, it really does kind of feel like you're holding a book in your hand as the movie comes to a conclusion. But it's a little hard to like separate scenes because they do the movie that way. Like you said, The key party, it's not, it's like across 30 minutes of the movie. You know, it doesn't just happen in one linear track. Yeah, I almost think saying there was the most rewatchable scene in this movie is kind of illogical. Well, we've been doing most gripping throughout fucked up family February, right?

I mean, most gripping is the last 15 minutes of this movie. It's not fun to watch, but if we're turning about, like, talking about flipping channels and being like, oh, this part's on, if I'm flipping channels or if I see the ice storm on the cable guide and we're getting to the start of the key part I'm just going to watch. There's one other scene that I really like.

Okay. Which is Joan Allen at the book sale where she encounters the reverend and then she sees Wendy riding her bike. I had that too. I love that scene. I love that scene. And the only other one that I had

was Kevin Klein driving Toby McGuire back from the train and talking about self-abuse. I had that in what stage is the best. Yeah, we could leave it for that. The key party is the most... Key party is the one. Yeah, totally. Let's take a break, and then we'll do what stage is the best.

What's age the best? Chris mentioned self-abuse. On the self-abuse front? On the self-abuse front. This is important. I don't think it's advisable to do it in the shower. It wastes water and electricity, and because we all expect you to be doing it there in any case.

and not on under the linen. Well, anyway, if you're worried about anything at all, just feel free to ask and we'll look it up. C.R., did you get a Birds and the Bees combo growing up? I never did. I never did. I think it was understood that mass media had taught me, like the basic instinct and whatnot had taught me everything I needed to know. Because your folks could hear you cranking it or what?

No, I just think that I had a little bit, just because of like my dad, like taking me to inappropriate movies. I think I just was like, I get it. I see. Bill, did you get a Birds and the Bees combo? Only one time I was reading a Judy Blune. I always read books that were way older than me,

and I was reading the Judy Blume books when I was like nine or ten. Wow. And there was one about the kid, one of them, they were usually female characters, but it was the one that had the male character, and he mentioned a wet dream. And I was reading in the car, and I'm like, Dad, what's a wet dream?

and my dad was like, staring into traffic, took him by surprise. I don't even remember how he answered. Wendy brings that up, right? I think he basically told me he peed. I think it's when you pee in your pants when you're asleep.

He might have lied. I don't think he wanted to tell me. More with Sage the best. Key parties. Have it? So Swingtown. Remember the CBS show Swingtown? Yeah.

Grant show. I think they tried to tap into this. Nobody watched it. Just the whole concept of key parties as a pop culture, TV show movie gimmick, I think. You just can't put that show on CBS. I mean, what are they doing?

That show has to be on Cinemax. Mad Men never had the key party, right? It just had chronic adultery, I think. Yeah. Klein's house that had the one step up where it was like a living room, there's a kitchen, and then there's one step up

and the door's a little higher to go out. so it seems like it's two floors, but it's really just this weird extra step. Very 70s, I always enjoyed those houses. That's gone. You'll never see a house like that again. I always think about, oh, I always think about the house

that the Beatles live in and help that has like the lowered living room, but it's just like two steps into it. Yeah. I always enjoyed those. Seems like those are gone. The Nixon Shadow Watergate, we mentioned. The weirdness in a good way

of Kevin Klein and Sigourney Weaver, who played the president and the first lady four years earlier, now as a fucked up 70s adultery couple. Kind of enjoyed. I love bong scenes in movies. Just I'm always in. Bong scenes. The combination

of Amaretto and Brandy. The chemical reaction from our tie stick. I always wonder if the actor is actually doing the bong hit. Like I just, I'm always in. This was Toby's first big movie. He'd been in a bunch of stuff, but this was

kind of his breakout. And Katie Holmes' first movie ever. Yeah. But Toby, this led to Pleasantville and Toby becoming a thing. I think him being in this one. Katie Holmes, who I think was 18 or 19 when she was in this, goes from this. Dawson's Creek, disturbing behavior. And one other good one. Are you rattling off Katie Holmes' IMDB from off the top of your head?

Teaching Mrs. Tingle? No, there was one more before that. She was great. Wonder boys? I absolutely loved Katie Holmes. No. She was great. I'll never forgive Cruz for everything that happened with that.

I mean, he took a national treasure from us. I was 15 years old in this movie came out. She was like, girl, my dreams when I was, when her rise was happening. I was like,

this is unbelievable. It's great. Sneaky tall, Katie Holmes, like 5'10. Oh, really? Yeah. Ran into her once in the early 2000s. It was like,

wow, you're like a sneaky tall. You're like, we should put you on the block. Yeah. You ever thought about playing the celebrity all-star name? I'm like, I'm going to have a podcast network someday.

Let's take my number. Toby's room in boarding school had a battle the Planet Apes poster, a Doors poster, and Nixon. I was just into it. I always like these period movies where you get to look on the walls and see what the set director is like, we'll do this and we'll do this. And those choices. I was just going to say that one of my what's aged the best is Francis and Paul. But like the roommates and their relationship, I think is of much needed, like kind of

gear shift in this movie. And if Paul was only the what person he was when he's like, if you like notes of the underground, you should read the idiot. Like, if that was the only the person we saw, it's really fun to watch them go back and forth about like David Krumholtz's character is going to die first in the revolution and all that stuff. Right. Sogorney Weaver. It's always good to see her and stuff. I just irrationally love Sigourney Weaver. Nothing irrational about it. She's the best. If you, this movie didn't have any Oscar performances, who would you have gone with if you had to say that's the person who should have been nominated? It's pretty high level, Joan Allen.

I was just going to say, Joan Allen. I had her too. Tearing up to that Reverend when he is like hitting on her at the key party, I was like, she's fucking amazing. She's a great actor. We'll be talking about her again when we get to Apex Mountain. Best supporting actress that year for Oscars. Kim Basinger won for LA Confidential. It's all right.

I don't feel... She's okay. I'm like a five out of ten on that one. Joan Cusack and In-N-Out. Great. Middriver and Goodwill Hunting. Julianne Moore and Boogie Nights.

Elite. Amber waves. Glorious Stewart in Titanic. Yeah. Sierra's favorite performance of the year. Yeah. Riveting. That's an abomination of a nomination.

She was a screen legend. It had been like 50 years since she'd been in a movie. terrible. I think that was Joe Allen's spot. Yeah. She should have been nominated. Gloria Stewart was 91 and they were like, it's time.

Yeah. Nobody knows who Gloria Stewart is. It's cool. Old lady telling a couple stories. I'm sorry. You don't get invited to the Oscars for that. Come on. Also, Roller Girl?

Heather Graham? Yeah. I mean? I wouldn't argue. I wouldn't argue. I mean, I don't know, Bert Reynolds got fucked this year too. It's a tough year.

I mean, there's so many good movies. We just listed a bunch of them. We've litigated the best supporting actor before. All right. What stage the worst? Water beds. I just see water beds in movies. Going through a revival, though, with licorice pizza.

Brought it back. I know, but every time I see water beds, I'm always like, what were we thinking back then? What was fun about a waterbeds? I remember my uncle barking. Louise had one. Just sleeping on a waterbed is completely insane. I can't believe anybody ever thought that was a good idea.

It's why most of the people from that generation have debilitating back problems too. They're like Tracy McGrady, like rolling it out just to like go to a cracker barrel somewhere. I just can't think about we're sitting to sleep on that a waterbed. The premature ejaculator. Jamie Sheridan? Yeah.

It's just always tough to. watching movies. So you, like, it literally aged the worst that he came too quickly. Last 20 more seconds. Come on, dude. That's what his, his orgasm age the worst. He literally was having orgasm as he was taking his pants off. No matter what we're talking about on this podcast, no matter how intimate it is, we always somehow drift into like you kind of talking about things as if we're talking about the all-MBA team. And you're just like, fucking. Gloria Stewart, what did you do to get on the second team? And also, Jamie Sheridan,

sorry, I just want my guys to last a little longer. Like, you're talking about Zion. Eight more pupsin. Any other what's age the worst for you guys? Other than what we've already talked about? I wanted to ask a general question. Is Mikey the worst wide receiver of all time? Oh, my God.

I don't know what happened. I had that in picking nets. Does he have CTE? Like, what's going on out there? Or is he high? Like, I just could. But like his friend who's just like, yeah, run it. Four verts.

We're going to hit Mikey in the fucking deep. And he just like stares out into the middle distance. He doesn't even get distracted by anything. He just loses his concentration. That's the only time in the movie that I felt like it was definitely directed by somebody who didn't grow up in America. You needed the technical consultant to be like, Ang, you're a fucking genius. Can I just explain football for one second?

Like, there's no way this happens. Either he has to. trip or get distracted by a hot girl. Why don't you go fucking home if that's how you're going to play? There's no like, hey, next time catch it. Not awesome. You guys would have been such dicks as teammates. He was having some sort of emotional crisis.

You know, the world is moving beneath his feet. Get off the field. Casting what ifs. Natalie Portman turned down the role of Wendy. When was the professional? So this is 97. This is a year after beautiful girls. So she's the right age. It's two and a half years. No, two years after heat. So it would have been like 14 year old Natalie Portman range.

I think that would have been a little tough of like completing the trifecta of sexualizing Natalie Portman characters before she's turned 18. You know, like the professional and then beautiful girls and then this, that would have been kind of a lot. agree. And I also think Christina Ritchie at that point just kind of made sense in a lot of different ways. Like, she's growing into her body, all this stuff. And it just seemed like,

it just seemed more authentic. Portman, it would have seemed like, all right, this is who you are now in movies. I'm glad she didn't do it. The same time, she's a great actress. It would have been interesting to see her in an Angley movie, you know? Yeah, Christina Ritchie just has like a slightly darker energy and is a little bit more withering. And That's kind of what Wendy needs.

Best that guy, a.k. The Joey Pants Award. So they show a weather lady on TV at one point, and my wife pointed this out. It was the annoying overlaffer from Sleepless in Seattle who goes on the dates with Tom Hanks. My wife was just spotted, spotted that one from the couch. The creepy long hair guy in this movie, The Reverend? Yeah. His name is Michael Comstey.

And he's been in a bunch of stuff. He is like the definition of that guy. He plays a priest a couple of times, right? When I was looking at his IMDB, it's like, Father this and Reverend that. Yeah, he's spending a lot of stuff. I thought he was the guy from Loss for a second, but that was Cruz's brother. William Mappother. Yeah.

Yeah, William Mappother. But he kind of looks like William Mappather. It's a weird that didn't team up. Can we do a quick second on the Reverend? Yeah, what's his deal? Reverend Key Party? Is it like a New Age kind of like? It felt like a Unitarian Church kind of thing.

So I was just curious whether and he's being kind of neglected by the town because people are like we don't get this hippie-dippy branch of whatever it is. Okay. I had him in the Judd Nelson Award

for the guy who's in a different movie. I don't know what movie he's in but it's not totally the ice storm. He really flies into the side of the mountain when he's just like, sometimes the shepherd needs to play with the flock. It goes down so bad. He's immediately getting his coat

and he's out. All the dudes are like, glad I didn't get that guy's keys. The Vincent Hanna, give me all he got a word. I'm actually zagging on this. I almost feel like this could be a new award. I wanted you to be a little more upset that your son just got electrocuted and you're looking at his dead body award for the guy at the end, Jamie Sheridan.

Yeah. Just need more of a reaction. You want a little Mr. Griver going in there? Your son's dead? You had no idea he was dead until this moment. and you're just kind of like, hey, is that my electrocuted son? Is that my wide receiver prospect, son?

Something close to that. Give me something. Your son's dead. I love Jamie Sheridan. It's weird because he's, my favorite thing he's ever done is he played the devil in the stand, the TV adaptation of the stand.

He played Randall Flagg. And he's so freaking over the top in that. You know, like you know that he can overdo it he wants to. He basically played Satan in a TV show. And yet he's very, very restrained in the whole movie. Pretty much everybody is restrained in this movie except for, I guess, Klein and maybe Sandy. But Bill, even Klein is like still kind of at a seven, not at a 10. You know, he's not doing all of his, because he's obviously so charismatic, Kevin Klein. We haven't even, we barely even talked about him on this pod. But he is downshifting a little bit too. The Dion Wader's Award.

which could go to about 25 people at the key party. It's got to go to Janie, guys. It's got to be Allison Janie. I don't even think she's really that famous at that point. No. She's like a character actress at best. Yeah, she's just got a great energy that every moment with her. What about Henry, I think his last year's pronounced churny, but it's spelled Zerney.

When he gets the... What's his Mission Impossible character? Kittridge? Yeah. Kitcher. You've never seen me very upset. love Kittridge, love Henry Churny, but when he gets the

keys of the heavyset woman and he's kind of like, let's do this, you know, like the look he gives the guys, which is really that's a great Dian Waders' moment. Yeah, it's good. Recasting Couch. I already professed my love for Sigourney Weaver,

so I don't feel like I need to defend it. Sharon Stone in the Sigourney Weaver part, what happens to this movie? I'm asking. Just asking. Thought exercise. Like as ginger? Right age range. Does that person need to be a little bit more of a vixen?

What kind of sexual, I'm disappointed by my husband baggage does she bring? How many secondals does she take recreationally? Everything. Is this movie more fun with Sharon Stone instead of Sigourney Weaver? I think Sigourney Weaver works because she's obviously very attractive in this movie, but is still, like, believable as a suburban housewife. Where Sharon Stee. Stone is believable as like the killer in basic instinct or ginger in casino.

But it would be hard to be like, look at this. You know, you wouldn't know it by looking at her. I mean, like, you would know it by looking at Sharon Stone that she was, she was here to tear up the suburbs. Sean? Agreed. I think I didn't grow up living next door to any Sharon Stones. So not that I grew up living next door to any Sigourney Weavers, but I think Chris is

right, that it's more believable. All right. So who are you recasting? Klein the right person for his part? I was going to throw this out there. How about Harrison Ford instead of Klein? Wow. I have trouble. I didn't really get a lot of roles like this

for Harrison Ford. I have trouble when Harrison Ford has to be horny. What? Presumed innocent. I know. That one's great. Even that, it's like, oh man, it's Harrison Ford. I don't know. This is awkward. He's is our guy. You don't want to envision him

having sex? Like, you don't want to see him, like, in the Jamie Sheridan premature ejaculation? mood or... I know he has to do it, but like even what lies beneath... Well, a lot of the sex he has in his career is under duress. In witness, in frantic, in presumed innocent,

you know, it's a lot of like, I'm really stressed out sex. It would be interesting to see him be like, I've had eight vodkas. I want to talk about golf sex. Sean, you have any recasting couches? Yeah, what if we just swapped Elijah Wood from McCulley Culkin?

Like a little good sun switcher. Literally a good sun flip? Yeah. or any Culkin. What about our guy from Entourage, Kieran? What if Kierre played Sandy, the younger brother? Yeah, look, props to Elijah Wood. I'm not a huge fan.

I thought he was basically a bulging eyes guy, and that's about it. I thought that was. He had one move. He had the bulging eyes move. I mean, he's fine. I know these are not your movies, but like he's kind of made for life with Lord of the Rings. Like, he was.

Yeah, great. He was awesome in the faculty. I'm a fan. I have a recasting couch. It's a shame he was in five years older. But if we could have just worked Philip Seymour Hoffman into this movie somewhere, it would have been amazing. Philip Seymour Hoffman is the Reverend? Wow.

Basically pick a part for him. He could have been like older Philip Seymour Hoffman and the Jamie Sheridan part. This movie goes up seven levels. Slightly younger Seymour Hoffman, even at the key party, taking the head of him. Every set girl, like just even for a split second. It's like, oh, my God, there's Phillips Seymor Hoffman. But I, or you could go send of a woman young Philip Seymour Hoffman and the Toby McGuire part, but just in general, this is the kind of weird fucked up movie that, like,

was his lifeblood. And it just would have been nice to squeeze him in somewhere. Maybe the Reverend would have been it. I'm trying to think of the parts of recast is really the Jamie Sheridan part. Not that he's not good, but you've got. No, he's not good enough. Joan Allen, Kevin Klein, and Sigourney Weaver in the three people out of this

quartet, and he's the least famous by far. So if you're looking at actors, if that was like Jeff Bridges, yeah, he'd be like, oh, wow, this movie has a fucking event. Or if it was like Nick Nolte. Yeah, but I need to believe that the guy can only last two seconds.

If the son says to Nick Nolty, like, oh, I didn't notice you were gone. Nick Nolty would be like, motherfuckerucker, God damn it. You fucking are now. And he was like, oh, God, damn it. prematurely ejaculated. Amazing. Maybe also not that fun of a part to have.

Yeah. Probably not. Like the A-listers aren't dying to be the premature ejaculator in the ice storm. I don't think Daniel Day Lewis was like for my next act. I'll come in 20 seconds and have four lines of the ice storm. 20. 20 would have been America. It was like three.

Have fast internet research. The real ice storm portrayed in the film actually happened, December 16th and 17th and 17th. was named Felix. Lee said the, Angley said the, what attracted him

the book was the climax when Ben makes the discovery in the eyes fallen by the reunion of the Hood family in the next morning. He said, quote, the book moved me

at those two points. I knew there was a movie there. To prepare for the film, he had cast members studies, stacks of magazine cutouts from the early 70s. And then two things were apocryful.

The MTA did not exist at the time. Kind of an issue. More importantly, Chris, you and me, we noticed the stuff. Marlboro Lights, not invented until 1977. Wow. That's a big anachronism. Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. But what is... I actually noticed that before I did the research. I was like, Marlboro Lights. Wasn't that like early 80s? When did lights kind of come in? I think late 70s. Okay. Yeah. Do we see somebody else smoking Newports at a certain point in the movie? I think Newport's are around

Yeah, menthol's around Yeah Okay, Apex Mountain Klein, no Weaver has this movie And Alien Resurrection Same year, but I still would say no What hers is is an interesting

conversation though Because she's She's been Ghostbusters Is it like alien? I think it's alien in 86 Or aliens too, I mean Yeah

Yeah, it's right around Working Girl too You know, she's I felt like she was One of the biggest stars In the world Right around It's somewhere in there

Angley, no. What's Angle? He's got, I think it's broke back. Yeah. Yeah. He has two best actor, best director Oscars, by the way.

One of the very few people who's won twice, because he went for Life of Pie as well. Oh, that's right. Which was a little bit of a surprise. Haven't really sketched out, fucked up family February for 2023 yet, but Brokeback Mountain is definitely one of the contenders. Yep.

Fucked up Cowboy February. Toughed up, tough movie for the Michelle Williams character in that one. She's awesome in that movie. She's great. Hathaway's great. Yeah, I think that movie's incredible. Joan Allen, Apex Mountain. So, let's do it.

Let's fucking talk, John. Want to take a break and talk Joan Allen? Great, sure. We'll take a break. Paraday presents in the Red Corner, the undisputed, undefeated weed whacker guys. Champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength,

Hatternay. Eye drops and work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes. And the winner by knockout is Hatternay. Paradig. Bring it on. Coming back, Joe Now and Apex Mountain. Go ahead, Chris. So it's this or born, right?

The first born movie that she's in no see Chris you've already there's not there's another you botched the snap the snaps rolling around you already lost the extra you don't think it's 04 where she's Pamela Landy in like the biggest action franchise in the world

you think it's this it's ice storm and faceoff in the same year leading to Pleasantville is this is the wheelhouse for her or is it 2000 when she is the star of the contender I well the

I'm a candidate to do that well, though. But she's nominated for an Oscar. And she was not very... Oh, shit. I forgot she was nominated. She's very rarely the lead. She's like one of the great I play the number two of this generation.

Also, she hasn't been in a movie in freaking forever. She was in that show Lisey's story. That's right. Yeah. That's right. I mean, she hasn't been... I'm going to read the people some Joan Allen. Manhunter?

Mm-hmm. Movie near and dear to Chris and My Heart. Blind Lady with a tiger. searching for Bobby Fisher. My son is better at this than everything you've ever been at in your whole life.

Don't tell me it's just a game. I don't think that's a Joan Allen online. She was married. She was married to the guy. Sean, you're not invited to the searching for Bobby Fisher. It's okay. It's all right. It's an all right movie.

You're not going to miss much. She was the mom in Madlove with Chris O'Donnell and Drew Barrymore. They had a mad love that movie. Pat Nixon Yeah The Crucible And then she rips it off

Culminating the contender But really good in born supremacy And actually she was in a bunch of boring movies But then I really liked the upside of anger I thought that movie was good And that kind of came and went And it was almost in the wrong decade It should have come out in like 1997

And it would have been I think a different movie For the sake of this pot I'll say this is her apex I still think Pamela Landy's some incredible stuff. Don't do Joan Allen any favors, okay, Chris? Sean, you're out on the upside anger? No, I like it. That's the Mike Bender movie?

Koster. It's kind of pulled back Koster a little bit. Koster had kind of sailed off for a couple years. They didn't know where Koster and then he kind of, we reel them back in with upside anger. Erica Christensen's in it, too. What's the premise is he... When her husband unexpectedly disappeared,

peers, a sharp-witted suburban wife and her daughters juggle their mom's romantic dilemmas and family dynamics. And he's like a new guy who kind of, he's like a family friend who comes into the picture, right? He's not the husband. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. That's a cool movie. I like that movie. Also, great-daughter's situation. It's Alicia Witt, Carrie Russell, Erica Christensen and Evan Rachel Wood, all icons of the early 2000s. Yeah. Tony. That movie, I don't know what happened with that movie. Joan Allen, one of the best moms. She's played

these different variations of moms, but always super believable as a mom. Toby McGuire, no. Katie Oms, no. Key parties, 100%, yes. Thumbs fucking up for Apex Mountain for key parties. Premature ejaculation scenes. I'm still going

Forest Gump. Wait, I got to ask you something about key parties really quickly. Like, I think it's possible that there was an Apex Mountain for key parties that just don't know about. Right. You know, like,

was there a key party that, like, Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton were at. The Playboy Mansion. Yeah, exactly. Fair enough. So you're saying we don't, we wouldn't know the Apex.

Or is, like, the work collected fiction of John Updike, the Apex Mountain for key parties. Yes. Or is like, is thy neighbor's wife, you know, the book. Is that the,

is that it? You know, like, I don't know. It's a pretty big category. Swapin Partners. Fair. How about premature ejaculation scenes? I'm still going Forrest Gump.

You're the expert, Bill. I'm going to say Forrest Gump. We should, on the, on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, we should do a compilation of all the great premature ejaculation sequences. And you can kind of just do that. You just be like, I just wanted one more pump from Jimmy Sheridan. Three more pubs. The video would end abruptly.

Oh, that's funny. Pick and dits. Would someone in boarding school in 1973 really have a Nixon poster over their bed? Yeah. I know we're trying to work Nixon into this, but is he still? I don't know. You told me. Weren't you obsessed with who killed Kennedy by this point in your life?

Why is this a weird? I just never would have had a poster of a president. I think it was ironic. I was still president at that point. Was it ironic? Yeah. I don't know. I couldn't get that.

All right. This is a big one. So Jamie Sheridan's character. If you're the dad of the dead kid, isn't your instinct that drunk Kevin Klein, hit him with his car. There's no follow-up questions. He's just like, oh, I just found him on the road. It's never like, what do you

mean you found him on the... It's like you were fucking passed out in the bathroom, dude. You didn't hit him with the car? I'm... I just have so many questions other than my son's dead. It's a legit question. I'm like, what happened? Where's it? Did you hit him with that? Like, you're just way, I just think you handled that differently.

Any other nitpicks? Yeah. I don't understand how the key party is organized. So what do you mean? So I think everybody puts their keys in the bowl. And then over the course of the night. No.

I know how a key party in general is organized. But this one, in terms of the invites, we've got a couple of wrinkles here. One wrinkle is we know that there is a woman who has brought her son, which is just heinous. That person should be imprisoned. Two, there's a single reverend there. Yeah.

I feel like he invited himself. Like, he overheard about it at, like, the grocery store and was like, what do you, do you think I could come? Okay. So having never been to a key party, can single people go to key parties? So to me,

it's like the early days of fantasy football. Yeah. Just like that. Yeah. We needed to figure out the rules for a few years, and then eventually we stumbled into where, you know, we had some organization to it.

I think there probably was a single guy key party loophole there for a couple years. Where if you're the single guy, you're like, I don't know anything to keep party. I don't think that there's a commissioner, Sean. You know, I don't think there's an Adam's a single party.

who's like... So you're saying this is like the stretch provision for key parties? You know, it's kind of like how do we get this guy off the books? But we, you know,

we stretch it across the cap for a number of years. Like this single creepy reverend can come. This guy has got Drew Gooden's contract. Yeah. Look, if you're making rules, I think rule number one would be no solos at the key party.

Yeah. Right? Cross that one off. Number two would be no reverence. And number three would be no sons or daughters with the parents. I also think that there should be a little bit more of a black bag nature to picking the keys.

Because clearly there's like a feeling like, oh, you're going to put a marker on a key or, you know, you'll know to pick your husband's keys if you don't want to have to go home with somebody else. And look, you know, I just want, I want to even playing field when I'm watching sports. Couldn't agree more, Chris. I think you made some great points. Could this be remade and this is the 10 episode Netflix show? I think yes. Yeah. I don't think it would work. It would probably be bad. I have a follow-up. If it's a 10-episode Netflix show, do you want to know the aftermath of Mikey's death? Do you want like a two-episode coda after they've discovered Mikey's body? You find out what happens to Sandy. You find out what Janie Carver's reaction to the death would be.

We definitely get at least another 45 minutes. But I'm just, I'm curious because that is both the best and worst part of this movie is that the movie ends right when you'd be like, I want to know every. everything that happened to these people after this. But, you know, a show would probably indulge in that. But the best part about the movie is that it ends in this incredibly tragic but also poetic note. I thought about this a little bit while watching the trailer after watching the movie. And I sent it to you guys. And, you know, the trailer has this very 1997 style voiceover. And it's almost like, almost kind of a lighthearted trailer.

And the narrator of the trailer is saying like, over one weekend, a family will learn the true meaning of Thanksgiving. And it's like, that's not what this movie is about at all. Yeah, that's terrible. But you could say that this could be basically be like a five-part Netflix miniseries. And each episode is one day of this Thanksgiving weekend. It's like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, up to Sunday morning when, you know, the kid is basically returned home after he's died.

But like... Or you do the thing where you take the IP and you center the actual series around one of the characters in a different way. Like, it could be Jim Carver's struggle with premature ejaculation. That's the thread for 10 episodes. And then we'll do a podcast about that issue on The Ringer. Like, we'll launch a new feed about that.

A narrative deep dive. I do think this could be remade as a 10 episode something. I think you would have to go way bigger. You would have to go way more 70s. And I'm not sure if anyone would care but us. I think the idea of one town is a cool concept for a show if you were like

there's 13 episodes and we basically spend time with one family in every episode and that represents like New Canaan in 1973 that could be a cool way to do it too.

Probably in answerable questions the obvious one what are the next few weeks, months and years look like for both families? Right. Do any of these families

stay together at all? Right. Feels like two divorces. For sure. What do you think happens to Sandy? Which one was Sandy? The younger brother.

Oh, he's definitely in jail. Yeah. Or he definitely killed somebody drunk driving or something. Something bad happened to him. I think he probably becomes 45th. President of the United States. Next, answer to what question?

Why didn't Jim Carver just rub one out before the key party? Just did the Ben Stiller. There's something about Barry. Clean the pipes. Because he's, he, you want him to be like Matthew McConaughey and Wolf of Wall Street, just like getting the chemistry right? Clean the pipes, get your chemistry right. It's a big K party.

Your wife's having sex with your best friend. He's like inventing silicone and nobody cares. That guy's probably a billionaire right now. Yeah. Yeah, fair. But he's got, he's got the worst sex life ever. What's he going to do with all those billions? Well, because he saves so much time with his premature ejaculation.

It's a great point. It's a great point. It's an incredibly efficient work. that he does. Why do you think I can pod so much? Yeah. That's right. Well, that Jim Carver had another unanswerable question.

Did anyone ever have a worse night in a movie than Jim Carver that didn't involve jail? He had a car crash. He had an incredibly embarrassing sexual moment. His wife got at sex with a young stud who just seemed really excited about it. And then his son was electrocuted. And that all happened in four hours. Pretty rough. Rough night for Jim.

Griffin Dunn and after hours are in competition for worse night. It's a tough one, though. Poor Jim Carver. Any other in answerable questions for you guys? Yes. Did Paul have any chance with... Was Paul Tobin-Muglia's character? Yeah, with Libbyts?

With Libbyts. Did they ever make it happen? I think that's probably the sequel. Yeah. Is Paul and Libets reenacting, like repeating the sins of their parents? What is Libet's? Where did the Libet's name come from, by the way? I stormed two, Libits Revenge.

Yeah. Strange name. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? It's got to be the Nixon mask, right? It's either that or it's one of Elijah Wood's sweaters. Some sick sweaters in this movie. That or the playbook from Elijah Woods football game. I'd like to see what his rat tree was.

Run stop. You were in the Z position. That's a skinny pole. I want to see Mike McDaniel get his hands on that team. I think, I mean, what about Jim Carver's Buick? You know, minus the, you know, he needs to re-apholster that, obviously. Oh, I know it. It's the key party ball.

Oh, yeah. The key party ball, the fake keys, right? That's the best. That's the best people, really. I would be excited to show that off. Who won the movie? I got to go, Ang. I think.

Ang or Joan? Yeah, I think those are the first. finalists. I'll tell you he didn't. Joan wins out of all the actors. I'll tell you he didn't win is Jim Carver, who's just been absolutely assaulted on this pod. Sorry to Jamie Sheridan. I mean, probably Ang, right?

Because it, like, it confirms him as a major filmmaker. He makes an American film. Yeah. And proves that he can cross over and then we're off. This movie was like a bomb, though. It wasn't a hit. So Gorney Weaver said that she felt like, like, and this was, this kind of brought me back, but Titanic obviously was a huge fact that

kind of blotted out everything that came out this fall. But she said the other movie that she thought really undercut it was the full Monty. Remember when the full Monty was like a sensation? And that that, you know, like fighting for art house audiences basically was how this movie was going to be successful and that the full Monty kind of kind of scooped out. It's so on a on a longer tale of this, I actually, and we didn't really talk about this, but I always felt like American Beauty kind of blocked this movie from having any kind of second wind or like revival. It's such a B-grade version of this movie though. Right.

And I think American Beauty has sort of obviously dipped a lot in people's Ice Storm took its spot. Yeah. Ice Storm is kind of recognized as like this perfect depiction of suburbia. Is there, how does that ever happen before? The double market, the re-correction? Yeah. Yeah, pretty rare. Doesn't usually happen.

It's like when Chris and I single-handed they made the Miami Vice, the movie. the movie more powerful than the TV show, which is by sheer persistence. Single-handedly? Yeah. I don't think it was on the radar until Chris and I stepped in and we, now it's a beloved movie. Do you think Michael Mann gets any credit for that or? Listen, the ship sailed and Chris and I had to help the old man out a little bit and take

it to the next level. And that's what we did. I, you're like, one more pump, Mike. I don't, I don't think Angling would's the movie because the movie, didn't do well. So Joan Allen. Let's go Joan. I think it's Joan Allen because I just think I think she had a really nice run of

really good roles in all kinds of different movies and this is probably her best dramatic performance other than the contender and the problem with the contender which is a movie that I really liked for a long time but I think that movie's I mean even the guy who directed it has basically said apologize for

the movie how inappropriate it was. Yeah, the sexual politics of it are really fucked up. But she's unbelievable in it. And Jeff Bridges is unbelievable in that movies. But now and now it's like it's kind of screwed up. You'll never see it on anymore. Yeah. I think you're right. I think her role is Dr. Eve Archer in Face Off and her work in the Ice Storm. It's really solidified 1997 for her. Plus her inability to tell the difference between Travolta and Cage just by them switching faces. Ionic. Bill, do you feel like now that we're at the end of fucked up family February

that you look at your family any differently? Yeah, I think a little more happily. Oh, good. Great outcome. Although Murph did shit in my daughter's room last night and caused a huge family scandal. So, yeah, look. What was the scandal?

Did you blame Ben initially? The dogs turned into a big... Basically, my wife blaming me and my son for the dog's abhorrent behavior. Okay. So not as fun as the ice storm. Can you just like tease another potential 2023

Ficked Up Family February movie? Like what's what's What just missed the cut this year? Yeah like marriage story Like what's what's on the long list? Squid and the Whale I think was probably the biggest one That could have made it

Over the top was Slice Stallone The greatest arm wrestling Divorce movie ever Which I still have I can't believe we haven't done yet The what's the movie what's the Nicole Kidman wedding movie when she goes with her son Margo at the wedding.

Margo at the wedding is up there. I don't know how we watch what that is. We should have bomb back on this pod like we had Tarantino and just let him program it. Yeah, seriously. I mean, he's made like five of the ten best fucked up family movies ever. Well, for the listeners, we are coming back the next two weeks with two very famous movies to make up fucked up family February for you. Don't apologize.

I'm not apologizing. just saying we're going to give the people what they want the don't prematurely apologize to these people are we going to do the re-forced gump the re-gump the re-forstation I'll tell you this I've been watching a lot of pulp fiction lately oh wow don't you fucking love to movies don't tease us I've been watching a lot lately it's been on I've been jumping in and out and um

that was a little note for everybody who was thinking about unsubscribing during I know family February is like don't go anywhere he's gonna hold pulp and boogie in the next five years, I might want to talk about Pulp Fiction on a pod, so just hang tight. If you think those people are listening to Minute 88 of IceSor and, yeah. Oh, that's right. That's why you got to listen, though. Should we get 30 seconds of Craig Horlebeck Cinema appreciator? The most negative response we've ever gotten from Craig about a movie.

Yeah, I'll sit this movie out. The cultural movement, whatever's going on, I don't care. I don't want to see 11-year-olds drinking vodka naked in bed. Let me ask you this. would it be weird with Pulp Fiction if it's actually four podcasts about the four different parts of that movie Is this just so that you don't have to do

Bruce Wallace's wife's seat? No, because I actually, I found more problems with that whole segment that I want to dive into. How does John Travolta not realize he's in the kitchen? I mean, he's taking a dump. Don't give it away for free.

Come on. No, I'm just like, like, Willis waltz is in, Travolta's there to stake out the apartment in case it comes back. and just doesn't hear him at all. Chris and I have been waiting literally years to get the call on the pulp pod.

So I don't... This is the only reason I haven't had clutch renegotiate by deal with you. I'm waiting for Pulpiction. Fair. Oh, fair. Yeah, have we... Oh, we did true romance

we did Reservoir Dogs for Tarantina. And you did Once Upon Time in Hollywood. And we did a glorious bastard without you. Oh, so we've done four. But we haven't done four. Jackie Brown, we haven't done Pulp Fiction. No. Killed Bill.

I haven't done Django, Kill Bill. Hatefully. Death proof. This is what I'm saying, man. We want this feed to keep going. For five, we don't want this feed to end in 2020. We don't want it to prematurely ejaculate. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, we don't want a Jamie Sherrod in the feed, man. You don't want to Jim Carver it. We'll have two big movies in the next two weeks. This movie, this podcast was produced by Craig Horvach, who hated this movie. Thanks. Thanks to everyone who participated in fucked up family February, and we'll see you next.