The Rewatchables - ‘The Natural’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: March 19, 2019

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin take the field to face Roy Hobbs and the New York Knights as they rewatch the 1984 classic ‘The Natural,’ starring Robert Redford, Glenn Close, and Robert Duvall. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the rewatchables and the Ringer podcast network brought to you by Sling TV. Millions of people have cut the cord and started slinging because slinging is about freedom. No long-term contract. Customize your channel lineup. Change it from one month to the next. Catch the latest shows, live sports, and hit movies, including today's rewatchable, the natural. Starting at just 25 bucks a month. Open up your relationship with TV.

Start slinging. Go to sling.com slash rewatchables. They have a special offer just for our listeners, 14 days free when you enter the promo code ringer that's sling.com slash rewatchables. promo code ringer offer available to new customers only. Availability may vary by location. Other restrictions apply. We're also brought to you by the Ringer MLB show where we're getting you ready for

the season in a whole bunch of different ways. Previews. A little fantasy. Malley Rubin even went on there to do a sports rewatchables. What games you do? We did game six of the 2011 World Series. Rangers cards. Ringer MLB show heating up.

hosted by Michael Bauman with a bunch of ringer characters on there as well. Meanwhile, I believe we have two lives, Mallory. The life we learn with and the life we live after that. The Natural is coming up next. TriStar Pictures presents Robert Redford in The Natural. The story of a father and a son. You got a gift, Roy, Roy, but it's not enough. A champion.

Roy Hobbs comes along once, maybe twice in everybody's lifetime. and his destiny. I wouldn't bet against me. I already have. Robert Redford. Robert Duvall. Glenn Close. Kim Basinger.

Wilford Brimley. The Natural. All right. What an honor and a privilege. The Mother of Dragons is here. We are like on the stretch run here of Game of Thrones. Just getting any time with you is both wonderful and special. and also I value it.

So thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me, Wonderboy. The honor and the privilege is all mine. This used to be, in my opinion, the greatest sports movie of all time. Yeah. The Natural. 1984, Robert Redford. I'm not sure that's still the case.

And I don't want to start the rewatchables out by nagging the movie because I love this movie and I've seen it about as many times as I've seen any sports movie other than maybe Rocky 3. and Hoosiers. I would say I've seen this the third most out of any sports movie. How many times is that roughly?

Well, so if you're talking pieces where you can just jump in where it's like, oh, there's an hour left, he's about to start playing. Roy Hobbs is about to get some PT. I'm probably in from that point on. Right. But it's definitely a little slow.

I would definitely make some edits. You haven't rewatched this in a while. What was your initial take? You know, I really enjoyed rewatching it. I did too. I emailed you earlier the week. I was like, it's amazing. Yeah, it was longer than I remembered.

It's like two and a half hours almost. Yeah, it's a fat movie. But it was also funnier than I remembered. And there's way more sex than I remembered. Oh. All in on that. Okay. Well, we'll hit that in a little bit.

Is this the greatest baseball movie of all time? You say no. Absolutely not. Yeah. You think Bull Durham. Bull Durham is one of my three favorite movies all time, period. It's certainly my favorite sports movie and it's definitely my favorite baseball. movie. That's in a class of its own.

I need to watch it again and really think about what my list is. I don't know if I have a favorite baseball movie. I like pieces of different movies. I think this has certain things that I think are the best, but I think Bull Durham has certain things. I still feel like Bull Durham,

that Tim Robbins is insurmountable for me. The throwing motion. Oh, interesting. It's insurmountable. You can't have the greatest baseball movie of all time when you have this phenon pitcher and he throws like he has a broken arm. Well, can't you if one of the lines to him at a certain point in the movie is you couldn't hit water if you were in a fucking boat? Maybe.

That's part of the lore around him. I have been thinking about that, though, just in the baseball movie canon, how every movie that we think of as being iconic really represents a different thing that we like, either about baseball or about movies. Or about that era. Yeah. And the natural is obviously about the godlike figure, the mysticism and myth-making nature of the sport. Something like Field of Dreams, something like Eight Men Out, obviously, if you get into any of the comedies or Moneyball, you know, all those things do something completely different. Their ambition is completely different. And what I love about Bull Durham so much is that it tries to combine so many of those things.

It's a romantic comedy. It's a sports movie. It's about metaphysics. It's about philosophy. The hero's journey is in there. But it's almost in some ways the complete opposite of the natural, where the natural is about. Can you realize your dream not only to become the man you set out to be, but to be a god, a god among mere mortals?

Yeah. Which is in your wheelhouse. Yeah. I'm always, though, going to be slightly more drawn, I think, to the opposite, which is, what if you can never get there? What is your life like? And that, of course, is what's so appealing about Crash Davis as a movie figure. And that one, I think, can cross over the most errors.

So I look at the natural and field of dreams. Yeah. Natural is 84, Field of Dreams was, I think, 89 or 90. And they belonged to this era of baseball that was basically ruined by steroids, where pre-steroids, we believed in baseball heroes. We believed in the American pastime and the power of fathers and sons and generations and family and all that stuff. And then the lockout happened. And then the steroids thing happened.

And from 94 to 98, that basically got decimated, leading to Barry bonds in the 73 and then us having this existential crisis on how do we feel about baseball now. I remember seeing field of dreams with my friend Jen Morris. And I think we're in college freshman year. And it was one of those. It ended and you're just still sitting in the seats for like 20 seconds after. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, what just happened?

It was a really memorable moment. And I don't know 20 years later if somebody could sit through that movie and feel that way. baseball had kind of tarnished us a little bit. Does it make sense? That's an interesting point. You know, I guess that the movies that are really successful, whether they're about baseball or anything else, are always going to be able to rise above the moment in which they were made and exude a sense of timelessness. And I do think that the natural does that. That was one of the pleasant surprises of rewatching it. You know, as you said, it's made in 84, but it takes place in the 1939 season. I mean, this is a completely different era, not only in the sport, but in life, in the

world. They're leaving their gloves in the outfield when they go to the dugout. Yeah. I always think about that when he drops one when he drops Wonderboy at the plate, it's like, this is your only bat my guy. Treat this with a little more chair. Constantly turning around. Bobby, did you take Wonderboy? Put it right back in the violin case. I can't wait to talk about Bobby, by the way. I have so many thoughts about Bobby. Out there rocking those converse. He looks like a Los Felis hipster. I love it. It looks like somebody who would be interning for us. The, uh, the, uh, the, the, uh, the, A chill scene is a concept when I had my old website.

One of the first pieces I wrote in 1997 was the 30-grade of sports movies. And in that thing, one of the ways I kind of rated, ranked the movies, was like, did it have a chill scene? What was the power of the chill scene? This movie has, I think, the best chill scene of any sports movie, which is the home run with the fireworks. and everything about that last 90 seconds is perfect with the guys jumping out of the dugout in slow motion with the fist pump, the fireworks and Wilford Brimley's grasses,

Hobbs just trotty around the bases, the stands. It's like I watched it this week. I had chills. Of course. Do you feel like a chill scene is an essential part of a great sports movie? I do think a chill scene is an essential part of a great sports movie.

I think you can achieve a chill scene in various ways it doesn't always have to be through achievement. It can also be through failure. True. But this version of it, it is one of those things where you realize that the movie has power over you, whether or not you want to give it that power. And that's a pretty incredible thing.

You can go into it thinking, I'm too cool for this. This is not going to have any impact on me. Or I think especially if you know the ending of the book, which is, of course, different. You know, he strikes out. Spoiler alert. I mean, the book is, I want to. I wanted to get into that.

The book is way different and actually became controversial when the movie came out because it was so different from the book. Right. People were like, fuck you, Robert Redford, you've just ruined the book. So I have actually, I'm slightly ashamed to admit, I have not read the book. Really? Which, you know, a book about baseball Jewish author. Yeah. You would think I would have checked this out at some point.

But I don't know, it's just been one of those things that's always been on my list and I've somehow never gotten to and doing a little bit of research for this. I was actually pretty surprised to discover how different, not only various points along the way are, but the ending in particular, because the ending of the film feels totally of a piece with the hero's journey and that quintessential arc. And if that last point on the arc is absent, you're left with a completely different story and a completely different sensation as a viewer or a reader. So, Barry Levinson directed this. Pride of Baltimore. And instead of basically doing the true reconstruction of the book, he decided to make Redford a hero. And he made it more about fathers.

sons. And the father-son angle, I think, is one of the things that is the most dramatically different from the book. And it's also like an easy thing to do with baseball. That's basically what Field of Dreams is about too. And the concept of when I have a son someday, we'll have a catch. And then we'll be playing in the backyard. Of course, is how this movie ends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. In the wheat field. So I actually think that's probably a smart decision. I don't know in the 80s, which was this very patriotic old school decade for how we did stuff that Roy Hobbs striking out and then like going to jail for possibly killing this person is how it would have gone. I think in the 2000s that is more realistic. And the throwing the game angle.

Throwing the game. There's some shoeless Joe Jackson there. But if we made this movie in like 2015, I actually think they would have stayed faithful to the book because it makes much more sense because that's kind of how we feel about. baseball heroes now. We expect the worst as well as the best. Right. It's also how we feel about heroes full stop. I mean, think about the prestige, golden age TV era. Even think about something like Game of Thrones. The anti-hero, yeah. The era of the anti-hero and this idea of moral ambiguity being true to life. You know, a story that presents the choices that a character has to make or the path that a character is on as totally black or white. You do the good thing or the bad thing.

People can't relate to that experience anymore. That's not what. life is like for anyone ever. And you want, even if it's a story about dragons or wizards or anything you might see on your TV, a gangster, a meth, a teacher turned, you know, meth maker, anything, you have to be able to relate to something in the character. And ultimately, Roy being tempted. I mean, he's tempted in the film, but by women, it's, it's a very different equation than saying would he have considered taking the bribe at the end? You know, even something like the foul ball hits Iris in the book, right? That's when he breaks Wonderboy. Not just missing a home run by inches. Like even the subtle changes reflect basically, is this guy a failure? Or is this guy always

just an inch away from achieving his dream? Yeah. I think it could be remade. I actually think it would make a lot of sense to remake this movie now and make the dark version of it. Who would you cast as dark Roy Hobbs in this 2019 version of The Natural? I would definitely Definitely cast somebody who's under the age of 40. I'm like in this movie. You wouldn't cast a 48 year old or whatever he was. Who is it? Is it Miles Teller?

No. He's too young. I'm trying to think of people I know who actually played baseball. This is a good question. It has to be somebody. Like late 30s. Yeah, because he's supposed to be. I got it.

David Schwimmer. He's supposed to be about 34 when he makes it to the Knights. So they're making fun of him for being so old It's when you're supposed to retire But he's not like 50 He's in his mid-30s Although back then To play in your late 30s

It was not very realistic Right Yeah I don't know Like Babe Ruth was done at age like 35s Eating hot dogs drinking Man Getting syphilis Can't wait to talk

We have a syphilis reference In this film Can't wait to talk about that And of course we have a Ruthian figure In The Whammer Yeah It's all there Well let's hit a couple of things

About the book written in 1952 by Bernard Malamud borrowed from this bizarre shooting of Eddie Wakeis in 1949 in the Phillies who then came back a year later and got the comeback player of the year on the Wiz Kid Phillies. It's like a great documentary

that nobody could do because there's no footage. So it borrowed on that and in the book Hobbs struck out in the big game and discovered his grizzly past exposed in the papers alongside allegation.

he threw the big game, and the novel ends with Roy crying bitter tears after a paper boy inquires, say it ain't true Roy, which is a clear shoeless Joe Jackson rip-off thing. And it's a Greek tragedy, which I didn't fully realize until I did the research. I know this is in your real house.

They mentioned Homer in the book, I mean in the movie. Oh, yeah. Have you ever read Homer? So basically it's Roy Hobbs as Odysseus. Mm-hmm. Max Mercy is the Vulcan God of Fire Who could make or break you Always seen in red or brown clothing

Which I thought was interesting I never noticed stuff like this Pop Fisher is Zeus king of gods Uniform number one The lightning bolt and the Wonderboy batter As symbols This is I'm going to see The judge

Is Hayes God of the underworld Always in the dark Memo Who's our siren? There she is A sea nymph, Calypso Hadnafero of Odysseus, distracted him from returning home.

Gus Sands is the Cyclops. He is the one strange eye. I can't believe I saw this movie a hundred times. I'd never put this together. I'm such a moron. Iris was Penelope, the wife of Odysseus, Roy's true love. And then hubris is his enemy.

He wants to be the greatest who ever lived. Just like Ted Williams. And like Ted Williams and like the Greeks, that was, they considered that to be one of the fatal flaws. So do you buy this? Nobody loves fantasy more than you. Oh, I mean, it's not even subtext, it's overt text. It's really overt.

It's really overt. You know the like, do you even lift bro thing? Harriet's like, do you even read Homer, bro? Like, that's in the movie. I mean, it's directly there. What's interesting about it, I think, is that undeniably you can assess it on the, on the Joseph Campbell, hero's journey scale. So if you read The Hero with a Thousand Faces or study anything about it. Joseph Campbell's monomyth

analysis. It fits pretty snugly through the course of those steps, the redemption arc, everything like that. Right down to having a silver bullet. What is a silver, what do we associate a silver bullet with? Slaying a mythic creature. Right.

A real bullet won't do. The interesting thing I think is that you can do the Homer Odysseus thing or you can go Arthurian legend and it fits just as well. So that's really fun. A story where you can apply it in multiple ways to different heroes' journey or mythological elements. So you have the name Roy.

What does Roy mean? It means king. What is Wonderboy? Wonder Boy is Excalibur. I almost named my son Roy, by the way. You should have. Roy is a great name. Roy's a great name.

Oh, you can name your son, Roy Rubin. Hmm. Now your mother's going to call you. I listen to the natural podcast. Why did Bill say you were going to have a lot? You agree on the podcast with Bill, your boss, that you would be taking maternity leave within the next. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it.

But you have not only the clear parallel between Roy and Arthur and Wonderboy and Excalibur, you know, the tree felled by lightning. What do we associate lightning with? Zeus, right? The godlike figure. It's all there. But then you also have the legend of the Fisher King, the Holy Grail, pursuing the Holy Grail. Pursuing the Holy Grail. Sir Percival, the Knights of the Round Table.

Well, a lot of the baseball teams in the story are actual baseball teams, right? They're called the New York Knights. And then we have the Knights. Yeah. The fictional team subbed in with the word knights right there in the story. So you think he borrowed from that, too? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I don't think it's, I would say less like borrowing and more it's an intentional homage. It's funny to think of this movie and the concept of the Princess Bride, which came out, I think, like a year later. but basically both very 80s. They belonged to that decade, but both trying to accomplish a lot of the same things of just these very basic, generic themes, but told in an awesome way. I like this movie.

It was 82 and Rotten Tomatoes, made almost $50 million. Tough one for Roger Ebert. Yeah. Two stars. Yeah. He said, why didn't they make a baseball picture? Why did the natural have to be turned into,

idolatry. Is that how you say that? Idolatry? Idoletry? Idoletry? Idoletry? Yeah. idolizing a figure. I've never said, I've never pronounced that word before. It's the word I would never say. See, here's the thing about that critique. On behalf of Robert Redford, he said. It's bad critique. That is a part of baseball fandom. Yeah. It just is. Like, if you love baseball.

Over every other sport by far. A huge part of the appeal, a huge part of the draw, especially when you're a kid and you're falling in love with the game for the first time. You pick your dude. It's the godlike nature of what you're witnessing someone do. You know, what do we hear all the time? The hardest things do in sports is hit a baseball, right? Literally only so many people alive are capable of throwing a baseball that hard.

It's just not a thing that you can train yourself to do if you're not able to do it in some way. And it is a myth-making machine. That's the draw. It's not, I mean, obviously the nature of baseball fandom has changed, I think, as we've entered the Saber Metrics era on just like anything else in life. You can, you know, consume it in the way that you see fit, and that's valid and great and go do your thing. But for a lot of people, the appeal of baseball and baseball stories, like, I think of Philip Roth and the great American novel. And the idea, you know, why is it called that? Well, the idea that if anyone ever wrote the great American novel, it would have to be about baseball.

And, you know, characters in there like Gilgamesh and linking the sport to myth, when you think about Bull Durham and part of what makes it so great, it's not just loitering in the minor leagues and fucking the hot local who wants you to get on the hot streak. It's this discussion of existential dread and metaphysics and how inadequate you feel. not only when you can't do the thing you want to do, but when you see these Titans rise around you. Yeah. That's part of being a baseball fan. So holding that against the movie, now obviously that is raised to the fullest extent

of what that could possibly be in this movie, but that's part of what makes it fun. It's so overtly interested in exploring that one particular aspect of the sport and of loving the sport. I like that part of it. It's corny, but that's part of the fun. My guy was Fred Lynn, had his baseball card in my wallet from the moment. I got a wallet all the way through to after I met him at the 2003 All-Star Celebrity Game,

got a Sharpie, pulled the card out of my wallet and had him autograph it, which I think he thought was pretty weird, but I didn't care. I was like, this is my first favorite baseball card. I keep it in my wallet for good luck. He signed it. It's awesome. Stayed in my wallet for another 10 years and then finally fell apart. Yeah, this is, I think basketball has kind of replaced baseball in this respect for the basketball players and now the idols.

And that's been one of the craziest things that's happened over the last 20 years. Like Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, whoever. Let's do that for you. Thanks. I appreciate it. Those guys aren't gods. Like Roy Hobbs is the gods now are Janice and LeBron and Dorey Irving and Durant. All these is Steph Curry.

People, little kids want to be Steph Curry now. They don't want to be Mike Trout. It's true. And I think that's weird. So if you made this, it would almost have to be a basketball thing. I think the pre-steroids era thing is a really important point, though, because it's hard to really overstate how fucking sappy we were as baseball fans before 94. And you're younger than I am. Yeah, this movie came out before I was born.

Yeah, yeah. But by the time we had the lockout, so you really have only known pain with baseball. Misery. Despair. How old were you in the 94 lockout? Eight. Yeah, so, I mean, the 94 lockout was the first time where I ever remember people being like, fuck baseball.

Yeah. Fuck this sport. This sport can go fuck off. And then the next year was like, it was a really weird year. And only Ripkin Street kind of pulled people back a little. And then the home run chase, which was so important. But then that became taint. And then it just became, you know, I think the best thing that happened with baseball this century was just these teams that had never won winning kind of reinvigorated at the Red Sox and the Cubs and the White Sox and the Giants and that's what kind of revived it.

Yeah. I will say one thing that I appreciate about the movie and the story is that there is at least like a suspicious questioning mind in there. You know, that's really the mercy figure. Yeah. Like not being able to accept that somebody could hit a baseball that far, assuming that the bat had to be corked or in another way corrupted. And, you know, his whole obsession with either being the one who helps make the myth and sort of sanctioning it or being the one to tear down the myth, tear down the false idols and reveal the mortal beneath.

Taking pride in that's his job. Yeah. I make or break you. It kind of like, you know the moment in Game of Thrones? when Dario enters Danny's storyline. Which one's Dario? Well, he's been played by two actors. Is that the little guy?

No, that's your, no. Is that the guy with the scales on his head? No. Is he? Dario, we have O.G. Dario and then we have new hot Dario. Dario was in Danny's storyline over in Slavers Bay. It doesn't matter. The point is.

By the way, I know who Dario is. I'm just fucking with you. Sure. I do know who Dario is. Okay. I like Dario. I believe you. Yeah.

And when he, when Jora is really questioning him, And Dario says, you know, you have a suspicious mind. Is Jora a little guy? Jora is my husband. My husband, Ian Glenn, who's like 65 years old in real life and is the most handsome man alive. Yeah. You have a, the line is basically something like, you know, you have a suspicious mind and my experience. Only dishonest people think this way.

And I found myself thinking about that with the whole journalistic depiction in the film and why would you not trust this? But it's also important because you can't just think that just because this is supposed to take place in the 30s and not the modern day that everybody. would be totally instantly ready to believe that this was possible. At least one person has to say, what's going on here? Right. Baseball Mount Rushmore movies? Bull Durham. Field of Dreams.

The Natural. The Natural Moneyball? It's like Moneyball or Major League. I loved Moneyball. I mean, that was one of the first rewatchables we ever did was Moneyball, which has become a severely underrated 2010s movie. It's in the discussion and has really great scenes in it. and goes back to the point of how the best baseball movies kind of represent whatever the era was. Bad News, Bears, 70s, completely politically incorrect, inappropriate, but so were the 70s.

It's perfect. When they remade it, it was a disaster because they had to make a political correct version of it, which defeated the purpose of why we had that movie. Go to the 80s, the natural field of dreams. major league with the old school kind of start to finish rags to riches, Rocky as a baseball team, does that whole thing. Boulderham was also in the 80s. 80s is a good era for baseball movies.

Bull Durham, when we were really for the first time being like, how can we take that Rocky motto and actually go the next level with how we write a movie? And that's Ron Schellen, that's his biggest legacy. And then we go into the late 90s and a movie like for love of the game where people are like, we've seen every kind of sports movie. How do we now merge this with a lot of? other genres.

And for Love of the Game has some of the best baseball scenes of any movie. But the other stuff is so bad. Right. It kind of taints it. But then by the time we get to Moneyball, now it's like we've graduated seven levels beyond what a sports movie is. And now it's like this is about a movement that happened in a sport. And it just happens to be about baseball.

Right. And that's where we are now. Yeah. I love all of those. I'm also personally partial to the ones that came out when I was a kid and were about kids. So like, that was another great era. Little Big League.

Angels in the Outfield. Man, probably Little Big League. I must have watched that a hundred times when I was a kid. I would just alternate between that and Little Giants. You know what?

Broken arm one is that? That's rookie year. Little Big League, he's the manager? Producer Craig, how many of these have you seen? Most of them. You guys haven't said the Sandlot. The sandlot's amazing. The sandlot is good.

We have to do rewatchables on this. San Lot. Rookie of 1993. When was the Sandlot? Let's see. Also 93.

So interesting little tidbit here. My entry point to baseball movies with my son. Yeah. The three

movies that he loved, Bad News Bears Breaking Training. Okay. Which is real. I mean, that is one of

the greatest movies ever made. The Sandlot. Yeah. And Major League. I like it. The natural, way too slow.

No way he's getting through that. Field of Dreams, no way. Bull Durham, no. Really? No. Not yet anyway. Maybe when he turns 12 and he starts feeling a little rumblings. Maybe that'll be the right time. I think Bull Durham is either a good puberty movie or a good high school movie when you've started like studying philosophy. That's a good time for it too. It's a tough movie for Costner's hair. No. He hadn't really figured it out. It's getting a A little thinner on top. So he has to do the hockey player move.

He's got to grow back a little bit. Strong disagree. Tough one. That's up there with like who has looked the best in a movie ever. Costner and Bull Durham is on the list. Obviously, the answer is Harrison Ford and Witness. Obviously. Is that the answer?

Oh my God. Nobody has ever looked that. Harrison Ford and Witness? Yeah. Is your number one? Oh, yeah. Who else is it? This is where Sean's just going to.

a bar, Jane and be like, guys, we've had a recording buffunction. Harrison Ford and Witness. Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow. I got to make my list for the opposite sex. I'll have to think about this. I mean, I'm happy to do it for...

This is like a good ringer week. They'll probably lead to a bunch of HR violations. I have to give this some thought. Harrison Ford of Witness. What was the one where he had the short haircut, presumed innocent? You didn't like that one? He had short hair in a couple different movies. I don't know.

Witness is just All right. Perfect. We'll leave this over here. Sad eyes. I love a man with sad eyes. So I like Kyle Chandler so much. So sad eyes.

All right, we're going to take a brief break right before I do most rewatchable scene presented by Slink TV. They're so smart. They actually sponsored the perfect category. If you need to refresh your memory of the nominated scenes from natural, which we'll get to in a second or prep for next week's rewatchable. Pretty woman. Ooh, great one. Yeah. Great one. That's going to be a good one. Look no further than Slink TV. Sling has them both in their deep library of new and classic movies, current shows, and of course, live sports, watching your TV phone or tab. But whenever, wherever, Sling has broken the traditional TV bundle. You can customize your channel lineup from one month and next.

Watch what you want, when you want, where you want. You know how I know Slink TV is. the future. How? Nephew Kyle uses it. And he can barely, like, get a Starbucks for himself. I didn't know you could boot up Slink TV at the dark room. I know you apparently you can. They've also created a special ribbon for us in the Slink TV app with about 17, 18 of the movies we've discussed in the rewatchables and the corresponding episodes of this podcast.

So you can finally give a classic like Midnight Run. They'll love it. So ritually deserves. It's an all-timer. College basketball and full swing. NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs, MLB opening day. Coming up, don't miss out. There's a better way to watch TV.

It's Sling. Sign up at sling.com slash rewatchables. They have a special offer just for our listeners, 14 days free, enter promo code Ringer, offer available to new customers only. Availability may vary by location and other restrictions apply. And now, the nominee's most rewatchable scene

in the natural. This is a good one. I have a lot of thoughts on this. Hobbs versus the whammer is fantastic. The shit kicker couldn't strike me out with 100 bids. Three is all he need, Wama. Oh, I love contests of skill.

Do you, honey? So do I. What about you there, Huckleberry? Scared? Not of you, I'm not. Why don't we go on here? Joe Don Baker. Incredible.

Basically, basically a lot of people have failed playing Babe Ruth, and the best version of Babe Ruth from a Hollywood version was actually Joe Don Baker is the Wammer. Oh, it's perfect. He's great. The nose, the gut, the swagger. Felt athletic. athletic anyway? I mean, for...

Yeah, sure. Compared to John Goodman and Babe Ruth. Yes, that's true. That's true. I love also that we can timestamp this, right? So Roy is supposed to be 34-ish in the 1939 season. So we know this is 23. It's 23.

Bay Ruth Wilhous year, yeah. I mean, it's the 14-war MVP season. Yeah. So the idea of Babe Ruth in his 14-war MVP season, engaging in a carnival bat with Roy Hobbs is just thrilling to think about. Would you have called him Babe Ruth or you like having the Whammer as like a cover?

I like the Whammer as a cover. It makes you just work for it like one degree as a viewer. But she would have to go lefty if you're going to actually have him be Babe Ruth and that's tough. You have to find a lefty Joe Don Baker. I think that's tough.

No, I was, I'm in favor of this. I like in general the blend of real life names and figures and fictional creations. I always like when stories kind of more for reality and fiction. This is a great scene and also leads to

a great question of nobody with masks on back. Fault Tip really takes out Duval or the poor catcher, the old guy. I mean, the great moment when Duval just backs up 20 paces and whammer's like, how are you going to call it from there?

It's like, well, I'm more concerned about not sustaining a concussion here than about calling it properly. That's a classic. Hobbs's first batting practice when they finally let him... I love that one. Let him hit. That's a great one.

Come here. Let me see that bat. Not bad, kid. Where'd you get this? I made it myself. I'm a tree near home. Wonder boy. Put that on there?

What does it mean? Made it a long time ago when I was a kid. I wanted it to be a very special bat. After I'd been here every day. And they finally let him hit and he's just cranking him. Great swing by Redford. Model off Ted Williams, right? That's in the Roger Angel New Yorker piece.

So crucial that him and Costner both really looked like baseball players. Yeah. Really, really, really did. Yeah, you buy it. You buy it. Yeah. The batting practice scene is wonderful for three reasons. Okay.

Just the sheer spectacle, right? It's like watching Josh Hamilton in the home run derby. Yeah. You realize that the characters are having the same experience. that you are as a viewer. So you're totally mesmerized and captivated by what you're seeing. Brimley goes, get the water.

The water. The water found. And he's like screws up, drinking it. Previously had a scene complaining about the quality of the water. Why can't they fix this? You know, you understand how forlorn he is and how just decrepit the team and the stadium and everything about their situation is. But even he, who was so reluctant,

so hesitant to turn to Roy, in part because he thought he was being duped by the judge. Yeah. It's just drinking that filthy, water, just guzzling it. And then the third reason, the line you just referenced, you know, I've been here every day, you really realize that

Roy is kind of a dick. Yeah. He's kind of an asshole. And there are a lot of moments in the movie where you're like, this is not necessarily a nice guy. And that doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Which gives him something in common with basically every baseball hero we've had. Yeah, he's just like sort of a jerk. He doesn't hesitate to be

rude to people. He really does on some level. And And this is not necessarily a winning characterist or trade. It's like a little alienating. He actually feels really entitled. He thinks he deserves this. He thinks he's owed something and that he was denied it by forces outside of his control and that that was really unfair. And that he obviously has waited patiently, but then now it's his time.

And he is refusing to give up. Storms out of the meeting. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's on my list. He deflowers Iris and then immediately falls for the lady in black. Tough beat for my guy Roy. He falls for the bad luck niece.

Oh, yeah. After Pop says to him, my niece is bad luck. And he's like, great. I'm going to risk it. Starts hook it up with her and immediately goes in a slump, never puts the two and two together. Yeah, he does not necessarily have great judgment where women are concerned or apparently any understanding of rudimentary birth control. That was 1923. You can't judge.

I mean. Not a lot of material out there about the pullout method of 1923. I think. It really has to be instinctive. Nobody ever warned Roy and Iris about the power of pre-cum. Here we go, Craig. What are we? 40 minutes in, you know it was going to happen.

Third most rewatchable scene, Hobbs' first at bat, tears the cover off the ball. Incredible. Which I have more thoughts on later, but just the rain comes at the perfect time. They're picking up the scenes, the strength. right after when they start winning, there's a little small scene, but I really like it

when there's some chatter and red turns to pop. We'll get into pop and red in a second. He's like, is this team alive? And it's just like, that's like a classic. One of the many reasons I love this movie is the rhythms of a baseball season sometimes and you never know what's going to get your team going.

Right. But as a fame, you know it. And you're like, oh, what's going on here? You can feel it. We've won three straight. The guys in the dugout seem like. Like they're making jokes and spitting sunflower seeds and there's just a rhythm to it. And I like how they do that. Roy throws the batting practice pitch and cut to the Max Mercy sprinting out of his seat.

I have some questions about that. Which one? You don't think Max Mercy would have remembered right away? No, that part I'm fine with. We can save this later for unanswerable questions or picking nits perhaps. But he's still capable of pitching? Well, but after he throws the pitch, he holds his side because he's got the bullet in his side. Yeah, the silver bullet.

So it's just about pain tolerance? Yeah. I don't know if they had a Torado all back then. They didn't have the pull-out method or Tor at all. Glenn Close goes to the game, breaks some of the stands up, breaks some of the slump. The lady and white scene. Hobbs is Homer breaks the clock at Wrigley Field, which unfortunately the clock didn't exist until two years later. Yeah.

Sorry. I have that. 41. Redford and Brimley, when Brimley doesn't think Hobbs is going to play, crosses them out of the lineup. I'm going to get to that scene in a second. I have some thoughts on that. And then the ending in Roy's last step, bat. Those are the most rewatchable scenes.

I have a controversial pick for what I think the most rewatchable scene is, but you go. What is the most rewatchable scene? Add some if you want to add some. So everything you listed I had on my list also. The only other things I had, the lightning bolt, falling the tree, like the forging of wonder. Yeah. Great lightning. Wonderful. It splits the tree. Yeah.

And there's the little like the glowing stump of that one part of the tree where you're like, oh my God, this is like imbibed with magic. You can really feel it. By the way, for 1984, pretty good special effects. Yeah. Yeah. Decent. Impressive. Yeah. Not bad. The losing is a disease speech. Oh, that was good. Iconic. First of all, you noted already Roy getting up and walking out.

which is a great Roy is kind of a dick moment. But the actual speech itself is hilarious. Losing is a disease as contagious as syphilis. Losing is a disease. As contagious as bubonic plague. This guy is trying to motivate the team by comparing losing to syphilis and the bubonic plague. If that doesn't inspire you, folks, I don't know what will. That's really funny.

I like the montage nature of how that is cut and interspiced. And then I like all of the newspaper headline montages. I think that that is obviously a staple of cinema, you know, conveying information to you in rapid fashion, especially in a movie this long. I think you find yourself very grateful for those scenes, those sequences, because you can just digest a lot quickly. but I found myself thinking like this is just like Twitter for us now or push notifications this is how people consumed information back then

you had your headline you got the information how many hits do you have how many home runs did he have did he refuse to take the intentional walk and you know stick his bat out to make contact instead so I quite liked that in terms of how propelled the page the best you kind of violated the format I'm sorry

we can still talk about it there as well on the lightning bolt thing yeah the great special effects yeah We're filming this, right? My son's been watching Harry Potter. Why did you tell me? He watched the first movie from 2001.

Okay. And there's that scene where they're playing the game, where they're flying around. Quidditch. The special effects are awful. I mean, awful. The lightning scene is more realistic and has better, more state-of-the-art special effects

than a scene where everyone's flying around in 2001. Who made Harry Potter? The Sorcerer Stone. No, who directed it? Chris Columbus. He's got to go back in CGI better special effects. We were like laughing. Check out the quidditch scene in the third movie.

Is that when they figured it out? Prasoron, prisoner of Askeban. There is a quidditch match played in lightning that I think you'll enjoy. Yeah. It's great. Harry's on this. He's got a new broom, everything. Quiddish?

I can't believe you didn't tell me that Ben was entering the Harry Potter universe. Is he listening to Binge Mode? Not yet because he's got to read the book first. He's got to learn how to read first and then The movies are pretty good though What happens when the kid goes through puberty? What do they do then? It's great.

They age into the roles pretty well. I mean, they were making them quickly. Did he have boners like Ben Higgins and The Bachelor? I don't know if Daniel Radcliffe ever gave a Ben Higgins-esque speech about tucking his erection while filming. What was the most rewatchable scene for you? It's got to be the walkoff homer.

Okay. It's fair. It has to be. I mean... So I've seen this movie so many times. That's not my pick. Okay. It's just, it's magnetic and captivating in a way that...

It's great. It's the greatest chill scene of any sports movie ever. It's fabulous. Except for maybe Rocky getting knocked down in the 14th round of Rocky won. And Adrian coming out with the hat. And Carl Weather's thinking he won and turning around. And then Rocky like stumbles up and does the wave. in and Apollo's body just sinks.

That might be a better chill scene. I don't know. I think about it more. That's a good tale of the tape. I don't know. It's just the scene is perfect, not only in the climactic moment itself, but everything that leads up to it, breaking wonder boy. Pick me a winner, Bobby. He asks for the new bad, and Bobby gives him the Savoy special.

It's wonderful. For me, after watching this movie for now 35 years, my most rewatchable scene is Hobbs showing up for the final game. game and Brimley shaving. Interesting. Let's play that whole clip. You know, my mother told me I ought to be a farmer. My dad wanted me to be a baseball player. Well, you're better than anyone I ever had.

And you're the best goddamn hitter I ever saw. Suit up. So, you know, my mama wanted to be a farmer. My dad wanted to be a baseball player. Well, you're better than any player I ever had. The best goddamn hitter I ever saw suit up. It's great. It's great. It's really good.

It's good. My dad has called me and now we can do text. But my dad will watch The Natural anytime it's on. And he used to, he would literally call me and be like, HBO 2. Be the best damn hitter I ever saw suit up. I'm like, really? I'm like finding it so I could watch the last 15 minutes. I love it.

I just love that. And don't sleep on Wilford Brimley's chest hair in that scene. In every scene. coming out, it is like a forest. Nobody's ever had more... What would Wilford Brimley look like naked? His chest hair is out to like the microphone from here. It's like a foot long.

How does he not trim that? The conversation... How does anyone have that much chest hair? The conversation currently around Colton's new haircut. Yeah. Colton the Bachelor. So it has this like beak like... Right.

... protruding... Well, he's got nine months left before that hair. is gone. From the front. It's a peninsula. It's what the chest hair looks like. It's like a little peninsula. It's like a platypus bill.

But from the, from peeking over the jersey. It's mesmerizing. It's mesmerizing. It's like a pelt. As the cuts of this movie, the digital copies of them became better and better

and you could really see stuff. I don't really remember being blown away by anybody's chest hair like that before, but is he still alive? I wonder if that's like a calling card for him. Like, it's so masculine.

Nobody has more chest hair than I do. 84 years old right now. He's just all chest hair. He's walking around. It's amazing. What's age the best? Incredible cast. It's great.

So three Oscar winners, Robert Redford, Robert Duval, Kim Basinger, three Oscar nominees, Glenn Close, who lost again. Barbara Hershey, Richard Farnsworth. Also, Robert Praskey, Michael Madsen. Joe Don Baker Michael Madsen How are you feeling about him Are you Michael Madsen

Some women love Michael Madsen Never been my thing Fine, it's fine My old friend from college Scooter Caramette Who married my friend Horgs Michael Madsen was her guy Oh interesting

Like she was with them all the way When he started having problems Didn't care stuck by him Is she still morning bump to this day? She's still morning bump Tough loss for bump But great cast And Basinger who

who's in the discussion for most beautiful woman who's ever been in a movie. Like she's in like the top. She's gorgeous. She's at least in the final eight if you're doing like a March Madness bracket. You know how. There's one thing about every performance

where you're like, I can't tell if this is deliberate that you spend a lot of time thinking about this or if this is just part of your essence as a human being. Yeah. The lip licking from her. I couldn't stop watching it,

thinking about it. I was like, is she doing this on purpose? Or is this just? who she is is she like not able to harness her sexual energy because it's so overpowering. Right.

It's really something. She looks great. Diane Lane, who I just feel like is actually the character from an unfaithful in real life. Same thing. And she's probably not, but it's just like,

she's so authentic and realistic in that and the way she's playing with her hair. She's just like, can somebody just make love to be the right way for God's like, oh, I'll meet this artist. Brimsley and Farnsworth as Poppin Red.

Perfect. Phenomenal. Perfect. Some of the best stuff in the movie. This is sobering for me, and I think for you as well. Wilford Brimley in that movie is the same age as I am right now and the same age that your husband's going to be in like six months. How about that?

He seems like he's 78. The age difference between Pop and Roy in real life is like two years, right? Crazy. He seems like he's 78. Yeah. Yeah. Another one's aged the best. This is just for you.

We find out that Hobbs played semi-pro ball for the Hebrew Oilers. How do we get Hebrew Oilers t-shirts and ads? I bet you you can find those on the internet. Someone's got those on like Cafe Press or Red Bubble. Is that a real team? The Hebrew Oilers? I don't know. Phenomen.

I don't know. The music's great. Yeah. We forgot to mention the Randy Newman soundtrack and just. Like iconic score. Nominated for an Oscar. We've seen it. It comes back in on sports montages.

You see there was a run in the NBA and in, you know, Fox covering the World Series. They'll yank it out of them as well. That's great. It's definitely one of those sounds and scores that you instantly associate with the original source material. If you think about it instantly. I have Kim Basinger again as what stage is the best. Great job by Alec Baldwin. What a handsome couple.

Yeah. One of the most handsome couples we've had. It needs to say, not a surprise they have a model as a daughter. Max Mercy. They come and they go. Quite a character. You ever played baseball? You ever played sports, Max?

No, never have. But I make it a little more fun to watch. I like that. It's a good model for sports media people. How do you think Max would do as a modern day blogger? What's like Max's Instagram and Twitter like? Is he just like, is he taking his cartooning, his sketches over Instagram now? Let's go way further.

Where does Max work? Is he FS1 or ESPN? Oh, see to me. Or does he have like his own syndicated national talk show? Let me think about this. I think Max stays in the newspaper world for as long as he can, really resist making the jump to digital media. Philadelphia Daily News? He's got to be in a New York paper.

Chicago? Right? He's got to be at a New York paper. You think New York? Yeah. Like New York Daily News? Yeah, let's go with the Daily News. And he's also doing cartoons for them.

Yeah. And he's staying there as long. as he can. And then finally, he's wooed by Sirius Radio. Oh, wow. For Mad Dog Radio. Maybe Max has a podcast. He's got Max Mercy Radio for Sirius.

Designed his own logo and everything. Wow. I could see it. That's great. John Rhodes, the lefty from Pittsburgh, who comes in, who's the Roy Hobbs spitting image. She's a great casting. That's great. It is.

He looks very Roy Hobbs-ish. I like that he's a lefty. Hulking. I don't know where they found him. I liked his throwing motion. I'm very particular about the throwing motion with my actors. And then the guys, the slow motion of the guys jumping out of the dugout after the Homer. It's awesome.

I'm an all-time sucker for that shot. Anytime that happens in real baseball, I love when they have those shot of the guys coming up flying out of the dugout. It's my favorite. What's age the best for you? I have a couple other nominees. Okay. Roy Hobbs is three true outcomes offensive game. Like, Roy Hobbs is actually a baseball.

player for the modern era. Oh, I like this. He's like a Zach Cram. He only, Homer strikes out or walks. Like we see him do something other than that a couple times in the movie. Yeah, we never see like a single to the opposite field. It's basically those things. You know, he has the triple earlier in the film.

Roy is basically the kind of guy who right now would be like a nine war player, probably. his WRC plus is going to be like 184, maybe even higher? You know, he's just... Well, what he is is he's 2003 Bonds. Wasn't that the year Bonds had like the 550 on base and just had... It was basically homers and walks,

so that was his whole season. It's perfect. Yeah. So I like that. That is age well. I don't think his defensive war would be that good. He's seemed pretty slow and unwieldy in the outfield. Also, every time he reaches for a ball,

it's like side hurts him. He's hit the silver bullets. Not yet. Juddian his kidneys. Not great. The old school baseball fashion and all of the baseball aesthetics have aged wonderfully,

like especially the Cubs uniforms. Oh my God, perfect. What were they thinking playing in these fire retardant uniforms that were like 20 pounds and probably... I don't know.

They had to have been so hot. They basically look as warm as like the wildling furs. But they look great. It's like Leo de Capri on the Revenant just wearing like an animal to stay warm. And then my final nominee

is Iris as an independent spirit and, you know, trailblazing feminist. Oh, I like this. Do your whole riff on this. This is great. She's like, I don't need no man. Yeah, you know. Raise him alone. Roy gets her pregnant.

He basically proposes marriage. He doesn't know, obviously, that he got her pregnant. But before he leaves, because the cubs are calling him up, he's like, you know, marry me. I'm going to call for you. All this, like, romantic bullshit. She had to know. He invited her to the fantasy suite.

They fuck in the barn. Great. The Bard Fantasy Suite. Here's a bale of hay. Chris Harrison, Stady outside. And then that's it, right? He never returns.

Bad job by him. Carrying his child. Yeah. And she then goes on and conducts her life. He asks her if she ever got married. No, he asks if she works. Yes, she moves to Chicago, goes to the big city on her own to raise her boy. He goes over to her apartment and he's like, man, this is a nice place.

Yeah. She's able to offer him fresh-brewed tea or coffee. Right. Wonderful. She's got a drugstore where the guy knows her name. Yeah. She's over here. At the deli.

At the soda pop. At the luncheonette. It's great. She's living a great life. She's got charms. She can convince the usher to bring Roy a note during a game. That's crazy. Well, that is ludicrous.

Yeah, that's ludicrous. And then she can still get the guy at the end, you know? Yeah. Who knows? Roy was a bad guy. They might not have stayed together. So what stage the best for you? For me, it's red and pop.

Yeah. I just like when I, every time I watch this movie, you could sell me on 30 minutes of deleted scenes with them just in the dugout. Oh for sure. Ad-libbing lines. Absolutely. You definitely want to watch an entire game now where they're miced up. Yeah. That would be a wonderful experience.

Just them bitching about the players. It's that or I think the score. I mean, the score is so iconic. I'll go either one of those in my booth. Let's take a quick break. Talk about Black Tucks. Weddings can have 99 problems, but the groom's look shouldn't be one. that's why the black tucks.com designs rental suits and tuxedos that you'll love.

So even if you end up getting featured on a list of 23 epic wedding fails, at least you'll look good for your close-up. The black tux has an easy online ordering process that brings your suit or tuxedo straight to you. Pick a style, request a free home try-on. You can feel the fit and quality before you commit. You own any weddings this year, Craig? Actually, yes, in June. Not yours.

No, not mine. Okay, good. The Black Tucks also has showrooms all over the country. You can find your fit and plan your look from there. They'll ship your order two weeks before your wedding. So you can check it out one last time. Over 5,000, five-star reviews. You won't find a rental experience of designs like the ones you'll find at the Black Tux.

I haven't been a wedding in like four years. I'm too old. I'm just going to like second weddings at this point. All the people I know are already married. When I go to a wedding, I'll be using the Black Tucks. rent your suitor tuxedo at the blacktucks.com enjoy $20 off

with code rewatchables that's the blacktucks.com code rewatchables for $20 off your purchase. What's age the worst? I'm going to save my choice for the very last. I don't think Redford should be in the first 20 minutes of the movie.

I think you could actually start this movie either just with them, with the lightning and them go to the barn and basically cut everything out. Or you do the first 20 minutes, but it's 18-year-old Redford. I think the whole idea of, like, just shooting the weird lighting of Redford and Close when they're 30 years old, 20 years older than the characters are playing.

Yeah. I don't know. You could have used the freaking John Rhodes, the Pittsburgh lefty, to be 18-year-old Roy Hobbs. He's in his late 40s in real life and he's playing a high schooler. It's ludicrous. And he's like, and he's trying to run, so he seems like he's younger. It's also actually a little bit confusing because the show. shots of him, you know, taking the train ride where he will meet the whammer and Harriet and ultimately

his temporary downfall. It's like interspiced with shots of him on the train going to the night. And it doesn't really look that different. He looks exactly the scene. She's wearing a different outfit. 18 year old kid meet Harriet. I would have had an 18 year old kid strike out the whammer. I would not have used Redford for that. Here's the move. The kid who plays his son at the end, have him play young Roy. Well, that's my second what's. stage the worst. You know, nothing drives me crazier than when somebody can't throw in a baseball movie. Roy Hobbs' son is in the finals against Costner's dad and Field of Dreams for worst throwing motion. Tim Robbins, I'll give a half pass to because he actually threw out his arm

early in the filming and that's why he throws that way because I think he had a toward rotator cuff. I just can't excuse the field of dreams catcher, this pivotal moment. where his dad finally getting his break, and then the dad's like throwing it like this. And then Roy Hobbs's son who can barely catch. He's like, it's going to hit him in the face. And then he's like throwing it back. It's like, what are you doing?

Brutal especially because when Roy goes to Iris's apartment, he picks up the glove from the couch in the living room. So this kid loves baseball and thinks about baseball so much that he's carrying his glove with him as he's in the living room, doing everything. You have to imagine that he's the kind of boy who's just like, you know, he's tying it up at night to soften the leather, like rubbing it down, thinking about it all the time, but he can't throw. Or catch. I'm so happy that my son is just perfect playing catch with.

I mean, he plays baseball, but it's just like, it's so nice when you have a son. Have you ever played catch in a beautiful wheat field? No, but I would love to. Wonderful. That's age badly. Yeah, that's rough. Bump Bailey dies running through a wall? He dies?

He died. Shocking. What was in this wall? Like titanium? It's, I have this on my list. No outfield wall padding. It's ludicrous.

So Fenway, Fred Land ran into the wall in 75 in the World Series and was down for five minutes. And one of the most famous games ever. In the next year, they put the padding up. So I think this was the thing. My question is, could you die from running through a wall? Well, I mean, I guess if you sustain, yeah. sure, if you sustained a bad enough head injury, but... He wasn't even running that fast.

Yeah. I don't know. He's just trying to get back into Pops' good graces, and boy, did that take a turn. Why did he have to die? Because obviously, it's not a baseball answer. He could have just been injured and thus out of the team. Well, I think it's the Greek mythology thing. And memo, right?

Because she's with him. So we have to get him out of the picture for that reason. But it is ludic. And also, it sort of plays, like, bizarrely comedic in the movie. It's 100% comedic. It's right to just the music and the headline, and then they're scattering his ashes. And Roy, by the way, no emotional response to this whatsoever. He's just like, here's my chance.

Another thing that's age the worst. Women are either destroyers or saviors in this movie. That's it. There's no other character that's female in this movie. It's very reminiscent of the current Damien Chazel experience. The Iris and Hobbes scenes. are just not great. In what way?

They're just kind of awkward. You don't get the sense. Like they don't have chemistry? They don't have a lot of chemistry. You don't get a kind of, I want to jump your bone sense. It's just kind of awkward and stilted. Maybe that was 1939,

but I feel like he actually has more chemistry with memo. Oh, for sure. Maybe partly because she's one of the eight hottest woman who have ever been in a movie. But they literally fucking a phone. booth with a glass door and a hotel lobby. That's in this movie. So that's tough.

And then from the moment he gets poisoned to the moment basically that he goes to have batting to see if he can still hit to even like when he shows up for the suit up, if you're the best damn player ever saw, really slow. It's like it's 20 minutes. Like he's in a maternity ward. People are visiting him. My move with sports movies is like get me out of the. the hospital as fast as possible.

This is the biggest flaw in Rocky, too. Adrian goes in a coma delivering Rocky Jr. And now we're just in the hospital with them. And it's like, she's in a coma. They're just, Rocky's saying prayers next to her. He's like, can we get a? Can she just wake up from the coma? The problem with it in the natural in particular is that there is no mystery, right?

There's zero doubt that Roy is going to play in the game. Yeah, just get us to the game. You never actually question that. So introducing that many minutes of plot where you are, in theory, supposed to be questioning it, does ultimately feel a little bit misguided and needless because you know what the outcome is going to be. You can do that in 10 minutes. Do you have any other what's age the worst? Yeah.

The absence of basically baseball reference in the internet. Because nobody can figure out who the fuck this guy is. Nobody. Like there's no ability for them to not even figure out that he was a star prospect. but to even figure out who he was, that was pretty shocking. But this is 1939. I mean, you basically have the sporting news once a week and no other way to know anything. That's what I mean, though.

You watch it in this day and age, and you're just like, this is ludicrous. Oh, I see what you mean. Translated now. Yeah. But that wasn't unrealistic, though. He's involved in a attempted murder and a suicide. That had three other murders? Like, yeah. I think you pop up a little quicker.

Also, yeah, that's a solid point. Max is. clearly supposed to be not only somebody who has this encyclopedic knowledge, but somebody who thinks he does, right, who really prides himself on how much he knows.

Yeah, he, so like even if he hadn't been, you'd say, oh, this is a guy who should, he's, he knows who all the stars are, who all the up and comers are, he would have been able to piece this together. He literally met this fucking guy.

And in the movie, of course, because it's not a different actor, it's like, this guy looks exactly the same. Yeah. It's when you saw him. How can you not figure this out? We fucked up with the casting, dude. It's the same dude.

That whole thing about how long it takes for anyone to figure anything out. Is that your nominee? I also struggle with the ballpark security. You know, being able to just get the note to him is very strange. Who knows in the 30s, though? True. And this is again, this is true to the era, but something that when you're watching it now in the present day, it's just very jarring. Like, what are these ball and strike calls? You know, where's the pitch framing? Like a lot of Where's the pitch framing? There are a lot of moments at the plate Where it's just like, well, if you're watching baseball now In the present day and you're watching this movie,

it's ridiculous. And then this is a more serious one. There's no diversity in the film whatsoever. And it takes place, of course, before Jack Lee Robinson. But here's my question for you. When you're making the film in the 80s, why can't you change when it's set? You'd have to set it in the 50s at that point.

Why does this movie have to be in 39? It's made in 84. Like make a decision to move this forward into a different era in time so that not every single person on these teams and in this movie is white. Is that a reason of the, I mean, you're moving the book 15 years ahead of where it was set in the book. But what about the, what about it needs to be set then? I don't know. I like the whole railroads.

You had the hangover of Shoeless Joe. It's like post-bay Ruth. I'm okay with it. Throwing it out there as a candidate. My pick would be how old Robert Redford is. That's ultimately my pick. I really hate Roy's son's throwing motion. That's a good one too.

It just drives me nuts. I agree. Redford's too old to be in the first 20 minutes. Casting what ifs, couldn't find any. I had none. None. Deanne Waiter's Award for the best heat check in the movie. I want to give it to Mattson, but I don't think

he's going to, Bobby the Bat Boy is my pick. Oh, great. I don't know if you have a pick on your own. What about Gus? When I Gus. Yeah. Darren McGavin, not credited on the film. There's a, he's going for it every time.

So I guess we can, yeah, Gus is a better choice because then that could lead us to have fast internet research. Gus is really going for it. Oh, yeah. So, because he was a candidate for the Joe, for the, uh, the Saul Rubinick. Mm-hmm. overacting award as well. So Darren McGavin,

we're going to half-ass internet research now. Darren McGavin received no credit because he was cast late in the picture would have received a lesser billing than the other star. So he chose to go uncredited, terrible decision by Darren McGavin.

Guess what? I didn't know what your name was until we did this podcast. I've seen it 100 times. Like, dude, you're not on IMDB for this. What are you doing? What are you doing? IMDB, it's like

1978, love boat, Fantasy Island. What is the logic? Rockford Files. It's literally just a matter of pride over practicality? It's idiotic.

It's a terrible job by him. Rizanty Newman created the theme music. The guy from I love L.A. and a million songs who now will live on forever at Laker Games.

Although they don't win very much anymore. There it is. There it was, Craig. Hobbs breaking the scoreboard clock with a home run inspired by a Bammer Rowell of the Boston Braves doing it to Ebbets Field. May 30th, 1946, he showered Dixie Walker with glass. What a moment that would have been to have on the internet. As you noted, the clock should not have been there.

The clock should not have been there. Introduced to Wrigley in 41. There's a director's cut that I did not watch. Which is longer. Yeah, it's six minutes longer, which we didn't need. It apparently trims the top and really kind of tightens the Redford clothes stuff

because he must have been embarrassed by how old they look too. But then for some reason, adds more scenes with Bump Bailey and Gus. Oh, interesting. Hmm. You know, I don't hate that. I don't know if I needed more with bump and Gus.

You don't need it. But the death is so sudden. It's like this guy is supposed to be, you know, one final impediment. Right? obviously Pops refusal to put him in, but also the fact that the guy who's like supposed to be their star and is underperforming is just out there anyway,

I would have actually been, I found myself thinking like what are their interactions like? I actually wouldn't have minded that. And especially given the, they're bribery interactions. You know? Do you miss having Bump as a nickname? No.

Because we had Bump Wills too. I don't miss it. No. No. I now associate. Want to call Jason Gallagher bump? Bump Gallagher? Let's do it. You should call somebody at the ring or bump.

See if it goes. I was going to make a cocaine joke, so now I feel bad. But sure, let's give it to Gallagher. I guess it does have cocaine ramifications now. The quote by Roy Hobbs about what it takes to be a big leaguer, he says you have to have a lot of little boy in you. It was actually a quote by Ray Campanella, Doctor's Catcher. Let's talk about the Buffalo's Parkside Candy Store.

This movie was filmed in Buffalo. Actually, let's do that part first. The movie was filmed in Buffalo. But the War Memorial Stadium, which was built in 37, demolished in 88. Why do we have to demolish this? I guess this was one of its last great acts. Had a shorter distance down the right field line than is shown in the movie, which is why we don't really see a lot of wide shots of the homers because I think it was like 270 yards to right field.

TriStar, which made the movie, he spent $500,000 putting War Memorial Stadium even further back in time. Interesting. Why it demolish it, though? I don't know. Stadium's come and go, man. You know? Yeah, but just keep it. What's the point?

You need the land? You're in Buffalo. There's plenty of land in Buffalo. Keep warm Memorial Stadium. Maybe Ringer Buffalo correspondent, Andrew Grotodaro has some insight here. I just like thinking now about the fact that Buffalo wasn't good enough for Antonio Brown, but it was good enough for the natural.

Yeah, the greatest baseball. Well, maybe not the greatest, one of the grades. So the place where Glenn Close goes to have lunch, The old school, yeah, the lemonade, and she brings Roy Hobbs there. That's a real place. It's called the Buffalo's Parkside Candy Store. You can find it at 3208 Main Street in Buffalo, and it serves ice cream, homemade candy and sandwiches.

Three things that you love. Oh, my God, this sounds great. Yeah. You look at the facade of that shop, and instantly, I think, that place has good milkshakes. Yeah. I want to go there for like an egg cream, you know? So this is one of the many reasons I love my wife. She's huge on signs.

and outdoor and just looking at a place from afar that she's never seen and deciding that it's going to be great based on either the sign or the outdoors. You can sense it. The parkside candy store is like... So there's a place outside Pasadena and San Marino because always had a couple of soccer games there. And Pasadena's got this very old school downtown. And they have a place like this where you go in and it's like sandwiches

and the milkshakes with the whipped cream on top and the old school things. Is this just be more of those places? Is this a cake and pie place or a different place? Different place. Oh, man. About 3,000 people were recruited to play extras in the stands at then minimum wage, which was 335 an hour. And they still didn't have enough people, so they made cardboard people to cut back in the cost of extras. Many of them were outfitted with strawboater hats that were fashionable in 1930s.

I wish I was wearing one right now. Amazing. We talked about Darren McGavin. Hobbs, when he hit the cover off the ball, has that happened before in baseball? Yes. No. Baseball Hall of Fame has no record of this ever happening. The bad, the Savoy special, the bat that Bobby made.

It was a brand of beer in the 1930s. That bat is in the collection at the Baseball Hall of Fame at Cooperstown along with some other natural stuff, including the uniform. The bloody uniform? Yeah, the blood. The shilling sock uniform? I almost put that in what's aged the worst. Would Roy really have, like, would he really be bleeding out of the side of his? uniform through his fire-retardant baseball uniform, that's 20 pounds.

I have, I had this in a later. What amount of blood would that be? Yeah, I have this in a later category. Maybe that's a nitpick. Yeah. Okay. We should dive into that. Hobbs was loosely modeled after Ted Williams, left team number nine, said famously,

there goes the greatest city wherever lived. That's what his goal was. So the Knights faced Pittsburgh in a playoff for the NL pennant. Right. The real 39 pirates finished 68 and 85. Nice. Who won the pennant that year? The Reds.

The Reds. Yes. 97 and 57. Great job. Wow. My dad will be proud of me for getting that one, right? Less proud of me for not getting the baseball scene one, right? But that's okay.

This is for David Shoemaker. Brett hit the hitman heart. That's right. One of the all-time great wrestlers. Took his catchphrase from this. The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be from this movie. I like this one. For filming purposes, they waited until a clear day when the setting sun would be just at the right spot.

to get the Glenn Close standing up shot where it looks like she's got a halo on her hat. That was all genuine not CGN. Interesting. So that's what I got for internet research. I got a couple more. Okay. Just a couple though.

Yeah. Bobby the Bat Boy. Played by George Wilcoz, I believe. First and last movie. They discovered him in Buffalo at his parents' produce stand. And we're like, this is what a Bat Boy should look like. Incredible. He kind of lingers two seconds.

too long after he gives Roy the bat. It's like, go back to Zuckabobobby. Standing there for a long time. She's kind of standing there. It's like, what's going on here? He's standing there for a really long time. You already mentioned, obviously, that a real person, Ruth Ann Steinhagen inspired Harriet, which is fascinating.

Apparently, Barry Levinson, the director, did uncredited voice work as the Knights radio play-by-play guy, which is interesting. And finally, I wanted to ask you if you have considered the inflation scale for the bribe, the $20,000 bribe. I've not. $366,000. Really? Wow.

Yeah. It's a lot. Though I guess not really if you're going for team ownership. I mean, we can do this now. I was going to do this in picking nits. How much would the stake of this team have really been worth for them to just be bribing everybody in sight and throwing around 20,000 left and right? I just have no concept of what a baseball team was worth in 1939.

I can't imagine it was that much. Maybe it was. Maybe I'm missing something. You know, I guess... I would imagine the gambling, the money they can make from the gambling stuff was probably almost worth as much as the stake in the team. Yeah. But who knows?

I mean, I guess part of it is just that there weren't that many teams, you know, and you're in the New York market. But it's still baseball. You have no TV money at all. I don't even think they're showing the games. You don't have cameras in some of the shots, though. You have, you're just attendance. I have no idea.

Hey, let's talk about Luminary. They are revolutionizing the way we listen to podcasts. It's an amazing free app launching this spring. The Ringer is going to be involved. We're doing a couple podcasts for this, couple special exclusive podcasts for Luminary, with features like a simple user interface, personalized content recommendations.

The Luminary app is a better way to listen to the shows you already know and love. They have a groundbreaking service, Luminary Premium. At launch, Luminary Premium will cater to podcast fans by delivering an incredible network of over 40 ad-free podcast that will only be available on Luminary. And again, you'll get a couple from us.

More details to come on that. I know I'm excited to listen to some great shows like Hannibal Burris' Handsome Rambler and Adam Davidson's Passion Economy. It launches this spring. Sign up for Luminary Premium before April 22nd at Luminary.link slash rewatchables. You'll save a dollar off your subscription every month

for the rest of your first year. Plus, you'll be entered for the chance to win an exclusive experience with one of their creators like Trevor Noah. Luminary.com slash rewatchables. Sign up. Luminary premium. No purchase necessary. Must be 18 years or older

and a resident of the continental U.S. voidware prohibited. See official rules and details at Luminary. link. Apex Mountain. Redford, no. Absolutely not. Glenn Close, no.

Is it? Duval no. No. Is it no one? It might be no one. I had one. I had one. I had one.

I had one. If he had been credited, it might have been his Apex Mountain. I have two names, actually. There's a small case to be made for Kim Basinger.

L.A. Confidential. I think, well, she got nominated. I think, did she win for L.A. confidential? but that was at the tail end of her career. This got her career really moving the next level. I say no for her.

I just wanted to throw that out. Okay. I think you make a case this is Brimley's Apex Mountain. Wow. I feel like you just stabbed Chris Ryan through the heart. What about the firm? I just texted Chris to come in just to do evil Wilfrud Brimley as the manager and the natural. I think you make a case.

I think his chest hair was Apex Mountain, at least like that. Let's settle on that. It's the size of an apex mountain. It's certainly. It's a mountain. It's an apex mountain of chest hair. What about Roger Town, screenwriter? Didn't do much else.

Sure. That was the less I could do. Or Bat Boy Bobby. Bat boy Bobby. I mean, Levinson, it's Diner or Rain Man, right? Levinson, no way. So it's definitely not him. I would say Rain Man for him.

Redford. No way. You were going to say all the president's men, right, for Redford. It's something in the 70s. Yeah, I mean, he won an, he won an, he won an, Oscar for ordinary people as director. We did the All the President's Men rewatchables and decided that actually was his Apex Mountain because not only was he the biggest star in Hollywood, but had the juice to make a movie like

that and produce it. You know, that's my favorite movie of all time. All the President's Men? Ordinary People. Really? Yeah. I love ordinary people. It's my favorite movie of all time.

So we'll do 40-year anniversary re-watchable. Count me in. I can't wait for the divorce re-watchables with me, you, Sean, and Amanda. Do you know what we're doing this? that, Craig? You're bringing the chocolate chip ice cream.

Okay. I got to watch it. The greatest divorce movie of all time, every kid of divorce has bonded over it. Anyone who says

Squid in the Whale for Best Divorce movie, I just want to fight. It is Kramer versus Kramer a thousand percent. Joey Pants to wear Darren McGavin,

we talked about him. He's one of those guys. I actually didn't know what his name was, but I'd very recognizable. Again, that's his fault. Saw Rubenek overacting, they knew.

I got to say Madsen, I really want to give this to him. I felt like he's over the top and I don't know what his character is and he just is kind of a dumbass. Who would you go with? I think you can make a case for literally everyone in the movie.

Wow. Like, you can make a case for everyone in the movie. But I think you really, you really can make a case for Kim, Kim, Kim Basinger, for memo. It's really over the top. I mean, deliberately, obviously, intentionally.

So she, you know, she talks about how she, you know, when she's wooing Roy in the first place, how she went out to Hollywood to be a starlet and how she can make herself someone else. So obviously part of that is actually the nature of the role is that you know when she's with him or when she's with anyone, she's performing. And that's actually part of the question is like, well, which of those guys, Gus, Roy, anyone is actually seeing her true self, if anyone? And then I think, Praski, the judge. I mean, he's so over the top. I love Praski. The lamp goes on. He's like, no. Basinger is a good one. The scene when she tries to shoot Roy, there's some bad acting in that. That's good. I'll go with Basinger.

I'm down with that. Picking Nets. I'm sure you have a few as well. I have 100. I'll keep into like five. We mentioned the rig we field clock. At the beginning of one of the games, the national anthem is being sun.

That didn't happen until after World War II. Right. Yeah. Time frame stuff. A lot of time frame issues. Hobbs really doesn't put two and two together that it might be his son. He's really that dumb. He does have one of those moments where he's like,

your boy? Your boy? What? Is his father coming home? And you just want Ivers to say, he already is Roy. You're not going to ask like, how old is he? I know.

You have a son? How old is he? I don't know. The natural follow up question is how old is your son? Come on, Roy. I know. If Fowler, the pitcher in the last game, was going to throw the last game, if he was being bribed to throw the last game,

he basically makes one mistake in the first eight innings. He throws like a three-hitter. What kind of throw job is this? You've already agreed and been paid off. You have up one homer. Hobbs gets immediately suspicious. Yeah. And then the guy's fine.

She's going to... I mean, Roy Swatim. Roy Swatim. Shame them and Swatim. Is there an easier guy to throw a game than the pitcher? just walk a bunch of dudes and give up two hits and then five run inning. Come on. And then my biggest nitpick, and then we'll get to yours.

The newspaper copy, I have a lot of issues with the newspapers, which I also like that gimmick. The newspaper copy, if you actually freeze frame it, it's just gibberish underneath the headline. So it's like Hobbs hits Homer and then underneath it's like, you know, quidditch. And then the dates kind of go back and forth. So they'll show like a July 5th, then it'll be like June 30th. And it's really hard to put it in context of time. Yeah. I do just love the newspapers and the magazine covers too.

Really fun. I am utterly confounded by everything that has to do with Roy's internal organs and gastrointestinal tract. And the silver bullet in the stomach lighting? So it is established canon that he is in the hospital for a long time after the shooting. Yeah, 72 hours in a coma. They can't get the bullet out. Yeah. Now, this happens sometimes.

What are they using veterinarian tools? But then the bullet comes out perfectly because he was poisoned later. What? How? Does he shit it out? Like, what is going on here? How did it stay in him that long? How did they not get it out in the first place?

How does it come out perfectly later in life without? Because you would think if they couldn't remove it in the first place, it would be because doing so would risk his life. I guess you could rationalize it by saying the doctor tells him that his life is in jeopardy at that point. Anyway, at the end, after the bullet is removed and he's in the maternity ward. But that is just all really, really bizarre. And related to that, the blood that you mentioned earlier, earlier, the doctor told someone when he's in the maternity world. It's one of the funniest

moments in the movie. Yeah. Your stomach could explode. Can I play Monday? The odds and your rage would be against you. One day your stomach could easily just blow apart, kill you on the spine. Yeah, what? Right. So.

This is like when my wife says the dog's stomach will explode if they have chocolate. It's like, do we have, yeah, do we have evidence of this ever happening? So what is causing the blood. Is it that he's opened the original wound from the gunshot?

They took the bullet out and he's got stitches in there. So they've opened. Yeah. Okay. Because... His stitches are now open. But it has nothing to do with the original wound

or the exploding stomach. There's no answer. What's your next nitpick? It's completely illogical and it's a mess. It's crazy. Pops line of construction is abhorrent. you have You put your slowest guy in the two spot

So More troublesome than Than anything else Because there are a million things you could raise here Is that when he thinks Okay It's late It the dream is dead

Not gonna get the pennant Roy's not healthy I'm gonna go be a farmer Like my mama wanted me to He crosses out Roy's name Yeah And subs in A reserve player

A fourth out-jutor To bat third To bat third in the playoff game. Yeah, come on. Rewark your lineup, my guy. No wonder you're such a bad manager. Yeah.

What is that? Shake things up in the lineup. That was baffling. Also, no one hears a gunshot go off in the owner's box in the stadium before the game. Probably thought it was fireworks. That's absurd. And I do think that given the fact that Roy worked, obviously his name has to be Roy Hobbs. We said earlier, Roy means king.

It's part of, you know, his identity. But he works so hard to hide his past and to mask who he is. He doesn't want anybody to know. Change your fucking name. Roy Jenkins. Something. Hobbs Roy. Anything.

Hobbs Roy. Wonder boy. I mean, if you're picking nits on that, also like, what did he do wrong? He got shot by a lady who killed three other people and then jumped out of window. Like, how is that getting pinned on him? This 18-year-old kid from Iowa? I don't know. I guess that he just...

Why be that embarrassed about it? It's like, yeah, this fucking crazy lady shot me. And I couldn't play baseball for a while, and now I'm back. I guess part of it is that there's some fear about whether the... Whether he'd be blamed. But she killed three other people. Sure. It was a mystery lady in black, and then it's her.

It's like, where we're... Nobody's picking this on the train. There's a scene on the train when Max is reading aloud about these other athletes. These other murders. Yeah. This is like Ted Bundy finally being caught, and then the person being worried he's going to be blamed with Ted Bundy's suicide. It's like, yeah, no, you're good, actually.

We need the true crime narrative part on Harriet. Harriet was amazing. Best quote, I believe we have two lives, the lives we learn with and lives and the life we live with after that. Now I believe we have two lives. What do you mean? The life we learn with and the life. life we lived with after that.

That's great. Some mistakes, I guess, we never stopped paying for. Talk says I have to quit baseball. Why? Some mistakes, I guess we never stopped paying for. When I walked down the street, people would have looked and they would have said, there goes Ray Hobbs, the best there ever was in this game. Go pick me out of winter, Bobby.

Go pick me out of winter, Bobby. Okay. Love that. Do you have any other words? Sam to the whammer. The balls is dry as your granddaddy's scalp. Like two. Some of the thought of spitballs.

That pig's poop. That balls is dry as your granddaddy's scalp. You better not be trying any funny business out there. That was good, man. Real poetry right there. Every time Pop says my mama wanted me to be a farmer or should have been a farmer, I love it. Great. This is quietly the funniest moment in the moment.

movie. When Bob says, my mom urged me to get out of this game when I was a kid, she pleaded with me, and I meant to. You know what? You know what I mean? But she died. And then red goes tough. Real empathy right there.

That's amazing. Not a lot of empathy in this movie. Another great red line when he is at the restaurant with Roy. Can't spell it, but it eats pretty good. I love that. That's amazing. And then also very funny when Bump comes in and says, I lost it in the sun. And Pop really dramatically looks up.

And it's just, it's a totally overcast cloudy day. And he goes, blinding. Yeah. It's hysterical. Pop's great. I love it. I love some mistakes. I guess we never stopped paying for.

And I think that's an awesome quote that could be translated to just about anything. Yeah, that's great. By the way, that would be a really weird high school yearbook quote if somebody did that. be like, what the fuck happened to you? Yeah. It's, uh, I do like that we, we sense that Roy is really carrying the weight of his transgressions. His weight of his transgression of just showing up at someone's hotel room and getting shot.

Yeah. That, that is, I still can't figure out what he did wrong. He just didn't, didn't see it coming, Bill. Didn't see it coming, apparently. And speaking of which, that's my last quote when he says, the only thing I know about the dark is you can't see in it. Here's why I like that. It's not actually like that poetic or literary of a line.

it tells you everything you need to know about Roy. Yeah. Like he is quite a literal man. We might be caught up in the myth of it all, but he's literally just trying to see the ball and see who he's talking to and get to the next step in his life. Hmm.

I like it. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Normally our answer is no for this. I actually think this would be a really interesting show if somebody did this, the 2019 version of The Natural. What's the pacing of the 10 episodes? episode show.

I don't know. And I don't know if baseball is the right sport for it anymore. I actually think basketball would be a more interesting way to do it. Because I feel like in a lot of ways, that's now the American pastime because of the diversity of it. Right. And you could do it that way. I definitely, my answer is no for baseball.

Unfortunately, I would love it. But, I mean, we just had a great baseball show, pitch, and it got canceled. You know, people aren't watching it. So I think it would have to be basketball. baseball would probably be the easiest to do just from filming it and being able to cheat with the sports scenes and stuff but I'm trying to think how it would work

because the internet kind of ruins this, right? Roy Hav shows back up, it's like, hey, there's the guy that got shot in 1998. Right. Yeah, you just dig up his old tweets right away. You find when he checked in as the mayor on four square, something like that. So I was thinking maybe the way to do it

is you do basketball, but it's set in the 19, like, late 60s or something. Because at that point, people, they still, you could have snuck this by if a guy got this great high school Hoops Prodigy got shot in 1953.

And then came back in 69 and was suddenly in the NBA. That would be, I think I would watch that. So the mystery has to be more central in the show. Like the threat of will his identity be discovered, this concern he has

over being blamed for something that he didn't do. I don't know, like, In terms of the actual sports arc. You could dive into the Max Mercy part better. You could dive into the background of the team trying to be. Like, there's a lot of ways you could add layers to this that I think would work. I don't know.

Probably in answerable questions. Oh, boy. What did Roy Hobbs do for those 15 years away from baseball? What was going on? 16 years? How many women do you think he slept with in that time? Because one thing that's clear about Roy is. He likes to get it on.

Cannot. Keep it in his pants. Cannot resist. Can't keep Wonderboy in his pants. He fucking loves the ladies, Roy Hobbs. One of my unanswerable questions, do you think Roy calls his penis Wonderboy? Wondercock?

I don't know. I think he does. Oh, my God. You think he keeps a case for it? No, we know he doesn't have a case for it. Yeah. I don't know what he does for those 15 years. I don't know why he didn't try to play baseball game

if you want to be the best ever. Does he not go back to Iris because he's ashamed? That was my takeaway from it. He was ashamed that he was in love with her and then immediately got seduced by the first person he met on a train. Literally the first person. The first person. But then he, I mean, ultimately when they're reconnected later,

he fesses up to it all, like, with pretty good grace. I don't know. That part's a little, that part of his character feels like a bit of a contradiction, whether he's carrying, like, shame that actually prevents him from, being candid or honest. I mean, I guess when he finally reveals it to Iris, he's, you know, let's take a walk. That does feel like something that he is, like, consciously decided she is the person he's going to reveal this to.

But that would have been true for her character in particular before, too. She would have been the one who felt like home. I don't know. She wouldn't have read the stories in Iowa about the shooting that didn't make the newspaper. They caught the athlete shooter? 1923, maybe not. That's a good question. What's happening back on Roy's Farm?

I wrote a This is what I wrote When I wrote about I answered this In a mailbag question Once 15 years ago I always pictured Roy Hobbs playing semi-pro ball

In the middle of nowhere Running a general store And spending a lot of time Walking around wistfully With his hands in his pockets And because of his fear of commitment After the lady in black Didn't date much

And he was just bummed out And that's why they avoided in the movie Maybe he's working as a carpenter A lot of wistful walking From Roy, I think In those 15 years A lot of like putting on really nice clothes And then just kind of walking around sadly

My next on answer to real question Is Kim Baser or a good actress? Because she actually might not be I don't know This role as I said this role is like The performance is really over the top She might not be Why didn't the lady in white ever marry?

Hmm I guess because she's carrying Stigma of having a being an unmarried mom In the 1920s It's just a deal breaker for everybody Oh I don't know Everybody's out You can make up some story

you know, your husband died building a railroad. That's what you would have done. Off of war. He died in World War I. I think she's just, she is in love with Roy the whole time, clearly. You know, she never fell out of love with him. You know, why? Because a Wonderboy.

Yeah. He knows how to, he knows how to work that wood in more ways than one, you know? But she's mad Roy Hobbs. It's tough to go to like the local. dude in Iowa. Speaking of Roy and Iris, this was one of my

unanswerable questions. The time that they fuck in the barn. Yeah. Do you think that's the first time they've had sex?

My takeaway was yes. Yeah. Because it was the classic Yeah. She kind of pulls them like, I'm ready for this. This is like proper and she's like,

it's okay. It's okay. Man. So like, do we think that is the only time in her life that she had sex? That brings us to my next unanswerable question.

Iris. Sent a little trap for Roy, maybe. Notice he's going away. This is her last chance. Oh, ma'am. Maybe one last way to make sure she's still a part of whatever's going to happen next. Lock it up. She believes more than anyone he's going to be the best player of all time.

Last one. Here's a little present for you, Roy. Maybe timed it. Counterpoint. Do you think she knew about the ovulation cycles of 1923? My only counterpoint, other than the contents of her character, that she doesn't tell him about the kid right away when they're reunited. Because it's like lock that shit down immediately.

You know, you read about him in the paper, you realize he's back, he's famous, just like you always thought he would be. You find him right away, right away. But she doesn't do that. There's a lot of holes in that part. And he doesn't ask how old the kid is. Because if she says my kid is 16, even stupid Roy will figure that out at that point. I hope you'll be able to do the math.

Would this have been the greatest sports movie game to attend of any sports movie? Oh, interesting. I am still going with the end of victory with Slice Stallone. Ooh. Which a penalty. The allies come back from four down to tie it. They get robbed of the winning goal by a shaky call. Penalty kick in extra time.

And Slice stops the penalty kick leading to everybody basically, breaking through and overpowering the Nazi guards and everyone escapes the end. That's the best one ever. That's a good one. I think the reason that this is a pick is the same reason it isn't. The answer is yes, because you want to be there for the walk off arm run. To get showered by fire. But that's the reason it isn't.

You're going to lose an eyeball because the glass shards are everywhere. How many people died in that stadium? Every light explodes. A hundred people died. Also, would that happen? I mean, I don't know what the wiring system was like back then. The ball hits a light. So why every single light then explodes is a mystery to me, but I am not an electrician.

I don't know. I did have that as a string of unanswerable questions. Give me the rest of ears because then I got one more. We see, as discussed, all of these newspaper headlines throughout. out. So what are the headlines we don't see? What headlines came after the walkoff? Oh. I like to think about that. You know, let's see. Roy kills the night stadium. Night slugger mashes explosive game-winning home run suffers career ending, exploding stomach injury.

We'll never play again. 23 dead hundreds critically injured as National League pennant to cider ends in Freak Stadium light detonation. Police failed to respond to 911 gunshot call hours before Pirates Night's Knights playoff game. Hobb stares down bad boy after a 13-year-old refuses to clear the field following bad exchange. No, what was in the papers that we didn't see? Those are all great. What else do you have anything?

Yes. What does the note that Iris gets to Roy say? Obviously, we know it's the reveal about his son, but specifically, what does it say? How does she phrase this reveal? Is she like, you owe me this much in back pay for child support? No. It says, I was afraid to tell you this before, but I feel like I. I have to tell you now, your son is in this stance.

He's 16. And he doesn't know how to play baseball. So you have to teach him. You got to meet us in the wheat field and teach him. And he throws like he just picked up a baseball two days ago. And he's a grown teenager. I love it. This isn't really unanswerable.

I think this is heavily implied, but just to state it for the record, if the whammer makes contact, Harriet kills him instead. Oh, I like that. And Roy is fine because she's there for the whammer, right? She's chasing the best ever. So that's interesting to think about. And then, of course, you know, the Knights won the pennant. So I was going to ask. So what happens?

They lose. Of course. They play the Yankees. Yeah. That's the Lou Gehrig year. They're not winning that game. Because that's it for Roy. He doesn't play again, right, after the pennant.

Roy Hobbs and Lugarig. Neither of them play again. Last one is what were Roy Hobbs, the stats in the National, which when I started writing for page two in 2001, I tried to figure out in a mailbag, and it actually it became weirdly an important writer moment for me because it was... This is all over the internet. Your research for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And at the time when I was writing for page two, like there were no national columnist and everybody was writing it, like in this very kind of, you know, set way that you wrote a sports column. And then I started writing for them and I was doing weird shit like this. And some of it didn't work. Some of it did. This one I just tried to figure out of stats and people loved it. And it was definitely like,

Oh, shit. I should keep pushing stuff toward this. Roy has a baseball reference page, but it's just your research. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I found this today. So here's what I found out. I screwed this up because when I did this, I was using the VHS cassette of the game or whatever. Blurry.

Yeah. When you have the digital now, you can see the dates. On the papers. And so when I did this, I thought he started playing in June. and I thought it was about four months. But now when you really can freeze frame it, bump belly goes down, but you clearly know his first at bat was on July 5th

because the newspaper headline about it says July 6th. All right, so we have that. We have, he has a late July slump. Actually, I'm sorry, he has a slump in August. Everything is going good until there's a Life magazine cover, which is August 14th. After they show that cover, the announcer says, there's Hobbs' Homer. It's his 11th.

So now he's been playing for, I'm going to say six weeks, he's 11 homers. But we also know he has a slump. The Lady and White Game is September 3rd. Okay. Where he has the game winner. The next day, four homer barrage in Chicago. And now he's going all the way through. We see about 17 to 18 homers that I think are homers during the movie.

figured he misses the last three games of the season. It's a 154 game season. We're not at 162 yet. So we lost some games already. He was slow. I had this in the original piece. Didn't beat out a lot of leg hits. So it was more like the Ted Williams,

when Ted Williams hit 388 and like 1959 or 56 or whatever. So my 2001 guess was that he played 150 in games, 400 at bats, 350, 447, 750, 750, slugging, 44 homers, 106 RBI, 75 walks. I have to redo this now.

I think he played 75 games, max. 290 at bats, 60 walks, 33 homers. I think I had the same 350, 4, 47, 750.

So it's trying to model it after like a bond season. Right. Maybe 29 homers, 80 RBIs. RBI count feels high. Because the knights other than him suck. Not a lot of guys on base. So maybe like 29 homer 70 RBI?

Yeah. I mean, project that over a full season, though. And, man, that's Cooperstown stuff. Do you think he played 75 games? I feel like he might have. That feels, that might be too many. Somewhere between 70 and 75. So Barry Bonds on baseball reference,

his 2003 season, I'm sorry, 2004, where he played 147 games, but 362, 609 on base, 812 slugging. So my next question to you is, was he better than Roy Hobbs was in that half season. Because I feel like he probably was. Bonds is taking the intentional walk, which is how his on base percentage is getting so high. We know from one of the newspaper headlines that Roy is not taking the intentional walk. He swung at an intentional walk. Right.

So presumably that would extend. I mean, maybe it's, maybe it warranted the newspaper article because it was a random once-in-a-season event than no one had ever seen. I don't know if they did that as much back then. I don't know. So what's crazy is when I did this, I didn't realize, I think I ended it in 2001 with like Barry Bonds' stats right now are actually better than this. And then Bonds had four straight years. Barry Bonds was better than Roy Hops, is my conclusion of this. I think his stats...

And he did it all without any help. Poor Roy had a silver ball. Bullet in his stomach. Was the natural, the name of the steroid that Hans is using? So we think 75 games, 70? Yeah, that seems right. What would you say? Let's go with 70.

70 games. Yeah. 28 homers, 70 RBI. 350, 447, 750. I think his batting average might have been a little higher. Higher? Yeah. So like 390.

Well, he had this slump that lasted like 3.9. that lasted like three weeks where he didn't get a hit. It's true. So in 70 games, if he didn't get a hit for like 15 games. You know what we don't see a lot of though? We don't see a lot of games where he's like one for three. He's like four for five or he strikes out every time. Right.

So. The four homer game in Chicago is going to help. She's so streaky. All right. I'm going to say let's go 370. Okay. 4.50 on base. 750 slugging.

Like 28 homers. 72 RBI, something like that. I feel like he has more than, I think he's more RBI than maybe we're giving him credit for. Maybe. Maybe like 80 RBI. I guess the whole team gets hot. Some more guys are on base.

Is this something we really have to have Zach Kram figure out? Is that where this is all leading? It might be. It might be. Because the thing is, if you look this up online, everybody's citing your research. I know, and my research was flawed. I also said he had no protection in the night's lineup.

Yeah. And if he was hitting all right. over 400 or near 400, they would have alluded to it in a newspaper headline. They didn't. Right. That's a good point. So he's probably in the 360 to 370 range. I agree with that. I like to think about, obviously, his age would be a huge factor, but removing age from the equation for a minute, if he hit the open market nowadays, how the critics would tear down his game as being two one-dimensional. Like you said, not a good, I mean, he's got the throwing arm, obviously, in the outfield. Possible clubhouse cancer. Not a great defender, slow on the bases. You know, is he like up for like a hit and run if you need him to be? I don't know. Yeah, he's a little me first.

Took me a long time to get here, Pop. All right. Who won the movie? Robert Redford. Yeah, of course. I don't know. I didn't even, unless it brimley's chest hair. You could, you could make a case for Pop.

I mean, it's such a wonderfully winning performance. And in a lot of ways, it feels like he's the heart of the film. Because even though it's Roy's journey, Like to get back to the Fisher King thing, that parallel, the Holy Grail is, it's for Percival, Roy is pursuing it, but it's about the maimed king pop and giving this guy the win finally. And the idea of this tortured existence where it just felt like it was never going to happen. And in the one hand, it's like you need somebody else to help you make it happen. But I actually think that's like pretty powerful too, you know, reminding you that you can't do it on your own.

And especially in a story where Roy is such a solitary figure. I like that reminder. So I think Pop gives us a lot. Also, I mean, red is just like iconic. Probably not in it enough to win. Mallory, it was a pleasure and a privilege. An honor for me, truly. We're going to be doing Major League

and Field of Dreams over the next couple weeks. When are we doing Bull Durham? Bull Durham we're saving for when it's a really magical time. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me.