The Rewatchables - ‘The Notebook’ With Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins, and Andrew Gruttadaro

Episode Date: June 25, 2019

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins, and Andrew Gruttadaro live out their love story as they rewatch the 2004 summer romance ‘The Notebook’ starring Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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If you're a bird, I'm a bird. This is a notebook on the rewatchables. From the first time he saw her. What are you doing, Annette? I'm busy. What can I do to change your mind? He would love her forever. You are 17 years old.

You don't know anything about love. He's not for you. Now he'll do anything to get her back. I wrote you every day for a year. You wrote me? Yes. I have a fiance waiting for me. This is not about keeping your promise.

It's about following your heart. Ryan Gossley, Rachel McAdams, James Marston, The Notebook, River Vitcher 13. Special sneak preview this Saturday in Select Theater. Welcome to The Rewatchables. I'm Juliet Litman. Today I'm joined by Amanda Dobbins. Hi, Juliet.

And Andrew Groddaro. Hey. We have gathered here in our sea island off the coast of South Carolina. Just kidding. In our respective offices to discuss the great film from 2004, which is about to have its 15th anniversary. The Notebook starring Ryan Gosling and Rachel McGatoms. I'm already emotional.

I want to say that I'm just entering this with nerve endings kind of frazzled and I'm ready to share. I'm sorry in advance. Where did everyone see the notebook for the first time? I feel like this is important to understanding how the notebook had an emotional impact on you. I saw it. I think this was like my first high school girlfriend was like, we need to watch this movie. Yes. Yes, Andrew.

And, you know, at that time, I think I was a freshman in high school. At that time, I think I rejected this movie's charms. And it has taken... Really? You didn't like it at first? No, I mean, I was still in that mode of like, ugh. You know, just not really appreciating romance like this. Okay. But in the years since, it's been, you know, it's been some time since then.

And now it's just, it's a great movie. It really is. Amanda, where were you? I vividly remember I was in college. My friend Rebecca Hauke showed back, showed up from summer break with the DVD. This is in the DVD era. And we were renting a house called the Red Barn. That was what it's an unofficial name in town. And we watched the notebook in the Red Barn. And I wept. I was immediately affected by it. And I have wept every single time I've watched it since. Of course, the notebook is based on Nicholas Sparks novel. Have you read that? No, I haven't. I haven't either. Have you read any Nicholas Sparks books?

I haven't, which is weird because I do like an airport novelist. Sure. Yes, of course. And I like novels that are set by the beach, which most of these are usually set kind of in like southern beach communities, right? Because that's where he is from. I'm glad you brought that up because I think that The Notebook and Nicholas Sparks ushered in an era of a type of like, Southern Beach movie that a lot of them were based on Nicholas Sparks

movies but after this there was of course the Miley Cyrus and Liam Hemsworth vehicle. There was also the Amanda Safefried and Channing Tatum movie. Like there were a lot and like the names also like don't even apply. You know like it kind of doesn't matter. It's a vibe with like tall grass by the ocean

and it sort of became like a new aesthetic that the notebook started. Well it's true though I think it's important to note like the two Nicholas Sparks movies before this which the notebook is the highest form. Yeah, absolutely. It's the highest example of the form and really made the Nicholas Sparks like industry what it is.

But please don't forget that there was a message in a bottle starring Kevin Costner. Incredible. And a walk to remember starring none other than Mandy Moore. I happen to love a watcher remember. Yeah, I'm sorry.

And all respect to Shane West. So this was like real people were doing this. And I kind of think it's important to remember that Kevin Costner was in one. And I guess Mandy Moore is like not as much of a star as Kevin Costner was. She was at the time.

How dare you? There is some precedent. Now I feel like we associate them as kind of really weepy, be list. Yes. Actors trying to make their break. Trying to take the leap. Yeah, but once upon a time, real actors were in these movies. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And then the other ones were Dear John. That was Channing Tatum and animated Safe Read. And then I believe the one with Miley's, Cyrus and Liam Hemsworth was, that's the last song, I believe? Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think that was it.

And it just, it kind of started this, a revival of the romance movie and, like, a funny way. But they were all really Nicholas Sparks once. Like, I feel like the lakehouse, though, it didn't fit into this mold was kind of similar to me when that was the Sandra Bullock movie with Keanu Reeves, where they're like, it's like their speed revival, basically. Right. Yeah. But she's like traveling in time.

It's similar. That's also like waterlogged in a similar way. I don't know. It's a whole new genre that comes back in the middle of last century. Yes. Big year for Rachel McAdams. We'll obviously talk about her more, but this movie comes out in June 2004, about two months after Mean Girls comes out.

And this movie was filmed in like 2002, 2003, and Mean Girls was filmed in September 2003. So this was filmed first and came out later. So similarly, Ryan Gosling, like the biggest thing he'd been in. and when he got cast was Remember the Titans. Like, these two people were not famous. Do you remember your first Rachel McAdams' experience? Was it Mean Girls?

It must have been because I think I did see Mean Girls in theaters. And I had to wait for The Notebook on DVD. She just went on an absolute run starting with Mean Girls. We kind of talked about it on that podcast, too. Yeah. But this is it's Mean Girls, The Notebook, and then Wedding Crashers, right? Yes. There's a whole segment of this podcast devoted to that, but that's a pretty notable

stretch for her. It's kind of wild. And then right after wedding crash, there's Red Eye, which I loved with Killian Murphy, and the Family Stone, which is like not a great movie, but like very enjoyable. The Family Stone, we should do maybe not a rewatchable. I don't know if it is rewatchable, though I have seen it many times on a plane, but what a fascinating text. That is a frustrating film. I think General Moroni is so hot. He is. It's not real. The St. Jessica Parker performance is confounding. Rachel McAdams playing. sort of against type. It's kind of like an early like NPR canvas bag chick.

Yeah, totally. It's just a whole different look for Rachel McAdams. But it's a true run. And then similarly, Ryan Gosling, this is like, launches him to fame. And then he turns into the La La Land leading man that we know him to be like, you know, over 10 years later. It's pretty wild. And then on top of that, just some incredible cameos from Kevin Connolly and Paul Johansson. Okay.

Also, do you want to talk about the other, like, extremely famous actors in this movie? Like, Sam Shepard. James Garner, Gina Rallens, Joan Allen. It's pretty amazing. It's like a heavy hitting cast. It really is. There's just, it offers so much. We also didn't talk about James Marsden.

Early, this was kind of James Marsden before his full rom-com extravaganza. Did his head look small to you guys? His head looks small to me. No. I just felt like his proportions looked off. Maybe that's like some part of conversion to HD or something like that, but I thought his head looked weird. Okay. I just wanted to note that.

That's probably why it didn't work out between them. Should we get into the categories? Let's do it. Okay. First, most rewatchable scene. I mean, I have a question for you guys before we go any further. Sure. Okay.

Can you even make a case for anything that does not include both Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAddips? Like, should we even address those? Like, should the scene, the, the scene? where Joan Allen takes Rachel McAdams to see her boyfriend that ever was, like, even make it in the conversation? My answer is no. That belongs in a different category. Yeah, no. While I do appreciate that scene, it's not even close.

Okay, good. So we're all on the same page here. This is a Noah and Allie podcast. Okay. I think that what you just said about rewatchable scenes, it should all be Noah and Alley, young Noah and Alley. I do want to talk about old Noah and Alley at some point, but like maybe not in this category. Yeah. Okay.

Sure. Great. We'll get there. Okay. Number one rewatchable scene suggestion. Yes. Is, of course, when they're lying in the street. Yep.

And it's the beginning of their relationship. There's no one in town. And they almost die by getting hit by a car. And it's all just very charming. Do you want to dance with me? Sure. Now? Mm-hmm.

Yeah? Dance in the street. It's a dancing street. We don't make so. I just say, so this. I wrote down the first date, which involves, like, them walking on, you know, they're having the conversation ahead of time, and then they lie down in traffic, and then they dance. And Ryan Gosling hums, I'll be seeing you. Maybe one of the more romantic scenes, movie scenes of the 21st century.

It really guts me every time I watch it. It's astonishing. The insistence on dancing is very sweet. It's really nice. And he's also, he is a trained dancer. Please don't forget Mickey Mouse Club. So he does the kind of like soft. every once in a while.

And then they're dancing. And I mean, it is kind of the purest expression of their chemistry. And there is like, it's the first time in the movie where you're really seeing them explore this chemistry that I think animates the movie. So I think you don't see stuff like that on film that often. That's what I have to say. Is that because of their chemistry or because of Ryan Gosling? Andrew, what do you think?

I think it's both of them. I think, like, they are really magnetic with each other. And I think Rachel McAdams' reactions and the way that she plays off him and that scene is really good. There's like when they almost get hit by a car, he's like sort of all stressed out and she's just like guffying. Like in a way that like doesn't seem to fit her character, but actually makes her character whole.

One of my greatest takeaways when I was rewatching this last night was that while he's obviously like so hot and magnetic, her charm is just like undeniable. It jumps off the screen. green when you're watching. It's pretty amazing. Yes. And this typically, these types of movies, this role is like the girl who's learning to stand out for herself and is a little lost and needs like, you know, some handsome guy to save or whatever your typical romantic bullshit. And she's playing it really differently. I mean, the character is written as like quite feisty. They fight a lot.

But she is like, she is the aggressive one. And it's they're both, they both have a lot of unexpected reactions that are kind of always catching the other person. on the back foot. You know, it's like, it's very surprising. And that means that you kind of watch them discovering each other in real time. And it's pretty special. She's, yeah, so I think she's great. I don't think you can credit it at all to Ryan Goplin.

Sure. Well, also just, by the way, it looks so young in this movie. So young. I forgot that, I mean, everyone was once young, but. He looks like his remember the Titans character more than at any other point. Yes. And he is fresh off of that. So it makes sense.

And now is another very charming character. Okay. Next nominee. There's the montage scene where you're learning about how they love each other. And it kind of culminates with them on the beach. And of course, there's the famous line where she says to him, could I have been a bird in a different life? You know, reincarnation.

And he says to her, if you're a bird, I'm a bird. Very emotional, very sweet. Andrew, where does this rank on the tearjerker rankings for you? I guess this is up there. I mean, it's just... Wow, Andrew. It's just like, it's so weird that it kind of like takes you a back. and then you're like, actually, this is beautiful.

This weird conversation about being birds. I have a vivid memory of me and Juliet having to explain if you're a bird, I'm a bird, to Chris Ryan. Yeah. Like, he just hadn't experienced that, which just, this movie has kind of been given a second life on the internet. It's funny, we talked about this with mean girls, and it comes out a couple months after mean girls. And there are just a bunch of things that kind of caught on and became memes almost. and I definitely think I'm aware of if you're a bird, I'm a bird because of the internet as much of the movie. Like it is weird in context.

It is true. And then has taken on a life of its own. It's true. Although I feel like, so I watch this movie a lot in college, like a lot. My roommates and I, it's beginning of the sophomore year, I just watched it constantly. And I do think that if you're a bird, I'm a bird thing, that was something we said to each other a lot. It definitely has like made itself into the consciousness because of memes. But pretty quickly, at least for my friends and I, that was like, oh my God, the Ryan Gosling line.

he sunk everyone's heart with that. Yeah, I totally buy that. I just think it's also part of the reason that this movie became a thing is because of when it was released and because we all, the college age kids who loved it then started using the internet. Yeah. I mean, and that's all. It was just useful for me to think about how I am attached to this movie.

Sure. Yeah. It's just, it also, it's funny how it got swept up into mean culture when it also predates it in a certain way. Okay, next nominee. when she first shows up at his house. And then she has arrived from Charleston where both she and Ryan Gosling moved to beforehand

to get familiar with Charleston, which I think is hilarious and speaks to how Canadian they are. Yes. It's true. She arrives at Noah's house, and it's the house that he has restored for her. She's super awkward and saying hello to him, and he basically doesn't speak.

And then she tries to drive away very quickly and drives into the fence and then ends up staying. I saw your picture in the paper, the one with you in the house, and I just wanted to come and see if you were okay. I mean, I wasn't in the neighborhood or anything. I just... So are you okay? So that scene and not the next scene.

Not the next day scene. No, not the next day scene. Okay. So there's that one. Sure. And then the next day scene, she returns in the blue dress, which she then wears for almost the rest of the movie. and he takes her out to see the birds

and then it starts raining and then they get back to the dock she says, why didn't you write me? And he says, I wrote you every day for 365 days and then of course it builds to the climax of it wasn't over it still isn't over

and then they have their really hot kiss and sex in the house. Yeah. The most famous scene from the movie. Sure. Absolutely right? I mean, it still isn't over is the iconic.

It still isn't over was just amazing. Yeah. He catches her on like an inhalation when he kisses her that is just like seared into my memory. Like I know that the second she opens her mouth as wide as possible, he's going in for the kiss. It's like insane. The choreography on that sex scene in general is quite elaborate. So I was just really confused about why I had to keep his pants on to get upstairs and like walk like that.

But then they show them. There's also a lot of emphasis on showing them stripping down in this movie. Oh, yeah. But I just want to say like one stocking at a time. Like where the legs are going in every aspect of them from like the moment they're on the dock until when they're kind of when they are asleep after the sex. Yes. Just really involves. Like I was thinking about the blocking that must have gone into that.

It did. Also, it did seem like this would be pretty awkward like if you didn't know each other that well. Like I guess like actors just do it and that's how it goes. But it's just like the heart of the movie. So there's so much resting on their chemistry and the sex scene, essentially. Yes. And also, like, both their, like, their fiery passion. Like, it is, like, a real tone they have to hit, and they do it well.

Yes, they do. I mean, that's why it works. I'm always really distracted by him pulling the boat out of the water. And I was always always... Well, it's going to be full of water. What did you say? He has to. Oh, yeah, I know.

Yeah. But I just feel like it would just be more difficult than he makes it seem. Sure. Also, it would hurt the boat and the dock more. It just seems like it's like literal friction that distracts me. Okay. Like when I was watching last night, I was like, oh, that's just weird. But whatever.

Anyway. I mean, it's just, it's an undeniable hot scene. Yeah. And then they, of course, they won best kiss of the MTV Movie Awards for that and reenacted the kiss on stage. Yes. She's wearing an amazing top in that MTV clip, basically, where it's like a strapless, like, boot. Stier type of shirt and she just she looks incredible in it. It's very

2005 film TV movie awards. Super 2005 and it's just wild to me to think about it when they do that appearance is three years after they film the movie or I guess two years after they film the movie. Just so much time. The magic of Hollywood, you know, never ceases to amaze me. Okay, next

nominee, after she comes back from the outing with her mom yeah, she greets Noah at the house and she's really flustered. She doesn't know who to pick and they have like their last big fight. And he tells her, I want all of you. And he wants to fight with her.

And it's just, it's a lot. It's really. And she's just crying. I find that to be the most powerful Ryan Gosling moment by far. I was like fighting to get those words out. Yeah. And it's like kind of, it's the most he seems like himself. I was about to say it's very pure.

It's like source code for Ryan Gosling and what he becomes. Yes. In this movie. One thing I noticed rewatching last night is like, so Ryan Gosling has a habit of just like yelling lines that you wouldn't expect him to yell while that's like his acting style. And it definitely starts in the notebook. Yes. And that scene is a is a crucial scene or he's just suddenly like yelling at random words of emphasis. So what?

So it's not going to be easy. It's going to be really hard. And we're going to have to work at this every day. But I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you forever. You and me. Every day. Yeah, and he just, he dominates that one because she doesn't really speak.

And it's a real Ryan Gosling performance. It also, it made me realize, like, I feel like the guy that you first meet at the beginning of the movie, I understand he's supposed to be affected by the war and heartbreak. But he was like so, so gregarious and speaks a lot. And I feel like you don't really get that after the break. I have some thoughts about this that I'm like to discuss in a future category. Okay. Okay.

I think those are those are the nominees, the most rewatchable scene. Have I forgotten any, Andrew? What about the Ferris wheel? It's a good one. That's a good one. I've also got notes on that, though. We can return to. It's a good one.

There's questions to be asked. My thing about the Ferris wheel is that it happens too early in the actual movie for me to have seen it multiple times on cable. Because I'm always coming into the movie at some point. I realized again, had never seen the first five minutes of this movie. I think when we watched it on the DVD, I was like making popcorn or whatever. I have literally never seen the opening credits of this movie. This man rowing a boat.

Yeah. No idea that is. And then I, when we made it to the Ferris wheel, I was like, oh, yeah, this is pretty good. But I never catch that because I always am watching it on cable. Yeah. It happens very soon. Yeah. So that's a technicality.

That's a good point. That's my review. Do you have any other nominations, Andrew? Duh, that's the only other one I had. Okay. Okay. That's out there, but it's just not on the same level. All right.

The passion hasn't been established. Amanda, what's your number one? Most rewatchable scene? It still isn't over. Come on. I mean, that's like, I know it's the most famous, but the moment from where they're in the bird lake situation. Sure.

Yep. The swans, geese, are they Goslings? Like, what's going on through? Because if you turn the movie on at any point, if you're within like 20, 30 minutes of that scene, you have to keep watching. Yeah. so that you can see it. Like, you cannot turn it off before you watch.

It still isn't over. You're much like Allie as a woman suffering from Alzheimer's, where you just need to keep going. It needs to know more. Sorry, it's bad Alzheimer's joke. Andrew, what's your most rewatchable scene? I have to agree. I think it's like hardly an argument. It's that scene.

I ride so hard for the fight scene, guys. I'm sorry. I have great affection for the first date. As I said, I think it's the most romantic five minutes of citizens. of the past two decades. But I think in terms of rewatchable, it still isn't over. Okay. Okay.

You guys win. Two to one. Okay. Next. What's age the best? Any burning nominees you want to get off your chest right now? I mean, you want to do the obvious one? Sure.

I think the chemistry between God and the Caddins is like astonishing. And it's it's luck. I mean, you have to get the casting, right? Yeah. We'll talk about the casting, casting. What ifs? But this is all time. Yeah, it really is.

makes me sad they're no longer together. So Brian Gosling gave an interview to GQ a little bit after they broke up and he said that women were coming up to him on the street and yelling at him for breaking up with Rachel McAdams because they were so attached to this movie and the idea of them together. And he's like, I understand. And I also understand. I'm really mad. This is real. You guys got to make it work. I know. It's really upsetting. I really wish they had. Yeah. It's just a... It also movies like this make me wonder is acting. real? Or is it just like sometimes you get really lucky and you capture these magic moments on camera? Well, the funny thing is, we're giving away a lot of half ass internet research,

but the funny thing is they didn't like each other on set. Right. So they were fighting a lot. The fiery passion definitely comes through. Sure. They fight a lot in the movie and then they make up. It does feel a lot like he was like came into this as like, I'm ready to be a serious actor. And he was like throwing fastballs at her. And she throws them right. back. Yes. She definitely stays at his level. Apparently they had a big blowout on set once as well, and that, like, made things

better. The other thing we haven't really talked about is the Nick Cassavides part of this, which it's just like a weird movie for him to make. Although it's definitely the best movie that he's ever made. I mean, he also made she's so lovely, which is, like, extremely dark and also about a love triangle, but way darker. John Q, not a tearjerker. Alpha Dog, not a success.

I mean, it's just like a weird list. of credits, and then there's this movie. And also the other woman. Let's not skip past the other woman featuring Kate Upton. One of Amanda's favorites. The Kate Upton performance in that is really a historical moment. What's funny is also that Gina Rallens is his mom. Right.

Because Nick Casavetti is the son of Gina Rallens and John Cassavetes. Right. Which I just, that's there. I read an anecdote that James Garner basically would break because he, Nick Cassavetes would be like, okay, mom. action, which I don't know if I were directing either in my parents or a child for, like anyone, brother, sister, like anyone with a personal connection, I'm not sure I would be like, mom action. Yeah, I know.

I would try to keep it at home. Also, you try to keep it professional. Just me. Keep her name out of your mouth. Yeah. Her name being mom. Just go with Gina or something. It's just a fun.

And also, he's like the star of the extras on the DVD commentary. Yes. There's so much of him. It's very funny. All the trivia that we know and are going to cite later is from him. He's like getting it out. Clearly proud of this. But I will say he cast Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling.

So I give him immense credit for that. I agree with you. He also, they waited a long time to find Rachel McAdams, which is like half the battle was won when they found her. Yeah. Other things that have aged the best, I think just Rachel McAdams in general, she is so good in it. She looks amazing in it. And I think she also like looks very similar. Just an incredible performance by her.

Do you prefer her as Allie or as Regina George? Wow. That's really hard. I think probably I don't know who I prefer her as. I think Regina George is like the impactful, you know, that's the historical one that we'll refer back to. So I probably have to pick Regina George. I love this performance. I think she's great.

She's amazing. Yeah. Also, I love her wavy hair. Looks fantastic. Yeah. Andrew, which do you prefer? It is hard to say I don't

I think having just rewatch this movie I feel like the performance caught me a little off guard Sure But yeah

I do think Regina George is the more iconic character It's hard to say Which one I like More though I might like

Allie more I think I like Allie more too I mean obviously She's like a better hang Kind of They both have Good hangs

Actually Yeah They're feisty Allie seems Really fun though That's like That's part of The movie

that I had forgotten about She does seem fun Like, she's just a great time. Also loves to swim. So much of the opening montage of them, like, dating is them jumping into bodies of water together. She's a little fungible. Sure.

Yeah. I like that Regina is strong in her convictions, even though those convictions are occasionally suspect. Another thing that's age the best. Incorporating Charleston. I just feel like Charleston in 2019 is really having a moment. Okay. And this is such a Juliet comment. I love it.

It's so great. I have this under what's aged the worst. Charleston. Not Charleston so much is like there's too much plantation stuff happening in this movie and it's not great. I mean, it's specific to the time and place sort of. And I understand that you can't just like totally alight it. But it's not comfortable. Everyone in a service role, like whether it's a nurse or like someone in the house with a job, is black.

Like that has definitely aged extremely poorly. And it's also a glaring part of the. movie now. Yes. It's pretty uncomfortable. Yes. And also just like a bizarre choice. Yes. Particularly for the stuff with the retirement home and everything. Yes. Completely not necessary. The one like white person we see there is a doctor. Yes. A man. Agreed. It's, it's crappy. We'll come back to what's age is the worst. But other things that have aged the best then. I have two. Okay. This movie is a period piece.

Nice. Setting it in the 40s just means that it doesn't, it's always set in the 40s. So like, Like the costumes, none of the references have aged at all. It's kind of, it works even 15 years later. It's like, oh, this is smart. That is true. Yeah. It's also kind of funny. There aren't a lot of references.

It's so self-contained, like, other than the war. And, like, Walt Whitman. Yeah, and Walt Whitman. Right. That's like basically it. Yes. And, like, the cotton trade, which is, like, like you said, in historical reference. Yeah.

What's your other one? So I'm going to do it. Let's talk about the old people. Okay. The structure of this movie is really good. You can say what you will about the dementia plotline, and I probably will say some of it. And also, you can say what you will about the actual writing in the notebook, which frankly seems terrible with all respect to Allie Hamilton.

But the way they pull the piece, the movie together, and really the pacing, you're in young Noah and Ali's world and you forget about James Gardner and Gina Rollins until about halfway through the movie. And that's, you only learn that they are old Noah and Allie. halfway through the movie and you're so invested in young Noah and Allie at that point in the movie that you're like, oh, great. Well, they're old and they're still together. And I want it to work out. And somehow this structure and the pace of the movie tricks you into buying into what is a ridiculous device. Yeah. Like, it is a ridiculous narrative device, but somehow

they make it work. And I give them credit for that. I couldn't figure out what the notebook was for a long time. That's how ridiculous the device is. I was like, what is the notebook? Like, what notebook is there in this movie. Andrew, where do you stand on the old people's side of this? I appreciate it as a device. I don't, I think by the time it's revealed that they're them, it loses its power. Can you guys remember first finding that out? Because I can't.

I can't remember either. No. I do remember last night in the movie, you realize it's her when she's playing the piano, right? Like that's the moment that that's revealed. And then you realize it's him much, obviously, much later on. But it's parceled out. So you know it's her and then you're wondering who he chooses. But I think I may have had it spoiled for me because I don't remember like finding out and be like, oh my God, I can't believe it's them.

I don't remember it either. But I have to imagine that I was deeply affected by it because every time it happens now when I watch it, I get really emotional. I'm I that is the part that makes me cry at the end so I think that it must it worked on me is what I'm saying I think it also worked on producer Craig who said he just loves the old people yeah I really do old people in love I just can't it's true it gets me it's sweet I know they're nothing else and they're just in a hospital together come on it's very sweet I agree with Craig um it does it does work also it ties in the like kind of I feel like it gives gravitas to their younger story yes

As well. Like it makes it seem more relevant and more important by having the old people as well. Yeah. I mean, it's nuts that it does work. And I'm sure there are many people who are listening to this that are like, you guys, it doesn't work. Just FYI. MMO to you. It doesn't.

But I think it just imagining this on paper or like imagining actually reading the Nicholas Sparks novel, The Notebook. I don't think that I would be as affected. I can't imagine doing that. I can't imagine reading the Nicholas Sparks with the notebook. So that's an achievement. Andrew, what else is age to the best? What have we forgotten here? Maybe James Marsden's inclusion.

Okay. It's just like a really good hit. And as we said, it's kind of, he's also not really famous by the time this movie comes out and goes on to be a rom-com guy. And now a guy who dies in sci-fi movies. I was going to say it starts his career as kind of being like the other guy, the pastover guy. Exactly. Which is sad, but he plays so well. Yeah.

It's also another achievement of the movie is that he, they make you root for a lawn as well. I always feel bad for him. I do too. Yeah. Like it's not an easy choice. It's a real... He's up there with Dempsey and Sweet Home Alabama.

I agree. I was going to say Jim and Pam and Karen because I also really liked Karen on the office. He's just below Keanu and something's got to give. Where I agree with whoever was tweeting this week that Diane Keatoner should have chosen Keanu Reeves and something's got to give. Definitely. Yeah. Anyway. He was a great guy that doctor.

He's really lovely. What should we give it to? I think, I think, I think based on this conversation, we got to go with the device of using the old people. No, the chemistry. Yeah. I forgot about the chemistry. My bad.

Yeah. We need to give it to like the sex scene that we described at great length earlier in this podcast. And maybe you should like do a video bonus of like breaking down because it's just so it's just a lot. As you said, a lot of choreography. You could really do a telestrator on it for sure. We definitely could. Um, what's age the worst? So we have the way that race is portrayed, which is just horrific.

Really, really poor. I think also the wartime scenes I have that too It's not great It's just like maybe you should just cut this Was it really necessary to show Kevin Connolly dying in battle? Great note

I agree I have the war scene written down Really tough I also think the portrayal of Sarah Lawrence College is on the list is another kind of like weird transition moment

that wasn't really necessary Okay I just thought that was like kind of strange I have the portrayal of dementia on my list Oh yes I'm just not sure it's an accurate portrayal. On Grey's Anatomy, which is my source text from most things.

Great. Meredith's mother has really bad Alzheimer's. Then there's an arc for like two or three episodes, somewhere around season four, three. I'm not going to fact check this, so, okay. Where she becomes lucid for a short time. Yeah. And I do think there is something to Alzheimer's

where you do like have periods of lucidity, but I don't think this is accurately representing what that is like, how long it lasts for, and how it can be, if it can be induced. Right. Exactly. There we go. That was my point. I think that is definitely troubling. I think also the idea of willing yourself into death together is another weird one. That also was very shades of Titanic, of course, because in Titanic there's the couple that chooses to go down together, like in the bed as the ship is sinking.

And actually, there's a couple of other moments of light Titanic influence throughout this movie. You know, makes sense. I always think of Jack telling Rose you're going to die a little old lady warm in your bed. Yeah. And they die together, like little old people warm in their beds. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And the you jump, I jump.

It's kind of similar to if you're a bird on a bird. Very true. There's just, there's the light Titanic influence, which I say with love because I also love Titanic. Amen. One of the best movies of all time, kind of. But anyway, yeah, there's a lot of like all the medical stuff just doesn't really hold up against the winds of time. Agree. How do you guys feel about Joan Allen in this mother portrayal?

I have another category for that. Okay. I just want to know if you think this mother portrayal is good. Oh, you mean like that, mom? How does that hold up? I kind of feel like that is accurate to the time. I mean, it was the 40s. People were terrible.

You didn't get to marry who you wanted until like 10 years ago. Sure. And like even there, like, do you? I don't know. I don't know either. Um, Andrew, hit us with some other things that have aged the worst that we haven't thought of yet. What about Allie's dad? Yeah, mustache, very tough.

It's just so, like, extremely southern. Yeah, a real throwaway character. He's basically, like, Colonel Sanders a little bit. Yeah. He's got, like, this mustache, just a little ridiculous. I agree. He also was, like, unnecessarily harsh, but then isn't actually. Like, it's just a very unrealized, unfulfilled character in general.

It's weird. He says, like, what and stuff like that? Yeah, he's supposed to be intimidating. That's another very titanic scene. It's when she brings him to the dinner, the outside dinner, basically. The all-white party that he didn't know was an all-white party? Yeah, it's also very titanic when he goes to dinner on the ship. Yeah, that character just doesn't really make any sense.

He's also, obviously. Obviously, incredibly inferior to the other dad in this movie. He was just wonderful. But who could live up to the great Sam Shepard anyway? Anything else that's age the worst? Yes, Amanda. Kevin Connolly in this movie? We're not going to talk about it?

What's the lowest Kevin Connolly moment? Well, his death isn't good. I mean, he's like somehow being dead and is still bad at acting in this movie. It's just also... Sorry, Andrew. No, it's so true. It's awesome. It's like, I know when this movie was made that Entourage was a thing.

Yes, he was... Right. He may have been the most famous person at the time. Sure. But this is just like, that choice has aged very poorly because Entourage and Kevin Connolly's role in Entourage have like downgraded significantly since 2004. Yeah. Oh, one more we need to mention is Martha Shaw as well.

Oh, right. Martha Shaw is rough. Andrew, you agree? I just feel really bad for Martha Shaw. Like, what is that character? I agree with Andrew, but I did write down in my notes that this is a pretty realistic portrayal of an emotionally unavailable man. Oh, definitely.

Oh, yeah, sure. Okay. Definitely not a problem with the Ryan Gosling of it all. But I just, poor Martha Shaw. Yeah. Bad beat. Also, she just takes it so well. That's not real. Can I meet her? Like, what? I know. I'd like to sit down and have dinner with you guys. Let's watch the sun meet together. I took that part because I, and then Rachel McAdams, Ali gives Noah that look after she walks in. Like, everybody's playing their part. Sure. But, but do they have to? Like, there's no reason for her to join them for dinner except for out of, like, wanting to punish herself or something. I guess, I guess that's true. Like, that just seems, that seems. That seems. That seems.

Seems harsh, but poor Martha Shaw. Yeah. You know? It isn't, she's best as a vehicle for Noah to show what a good guy he is, you know, because of how he handles it, I think. Sort of. Yeah. Why did you put her on your list, Andrew?

Well, I just, I think he, like, basically treats her like garbage. Yes. Yeah. And then there's this moment that comes along where it's, like, supposed to be this heartwarming thing. And you're supposed to be like, oh, like, the new girlfriend and the ex-girlfriend. And I don't know. it just comes off weird and I don't think accomplishes

and showing that Noah is a good guy. Yeah. It's just the whole weird dynamic. Let's come back to that point. In my head, I was like, I think Martha Shaw has children, but then that wasn't correct. She was just a widow. I thought she was a single mother.

But that's how I'd rewritten. I tried to make her story more tragic in my head in the moments in between seeing this. All right, guys, who do we give it to? What's age of the worst? Amanda? I'm going to go with the whole the southern race aspects of this.

It's not great. Andrew? Kevin Connolly. Yeah. Also that. I was like runner up Kevin Connolly. I'm going with race as well, but also the treatment of dementia and Alzheimer's.

Yeah. Also in the running. Oh, yeah. We're going to move on to casting one dance, but first, let's talk about today's sponsor. If you're a podcast and movie fan like we are,

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Let's head straight into casting what ifs. There's quite a few gals out there who wish they had gotten the Rolla Valley. Not just because it means they could have made out with Jessica Beale. But the list is pretty astounding. On that list is Jessica Beale, because she's probably the most vocal about it. She gave an interview, I think like five or six years ago, where she said it was the film that got away. I don't acknowledge Jessica Beal anymore after this week. Let's keep it moving.

Wow. Tough one. Another potential Alley that really just would have been terrible. Britney Spears. Well, this is also that Justin Timberlake was rumored as Noah. So were they considering like a Justin and Brittany notebook? They probably were. I'm sure they were.

That would have been terrible. Terrible. With respect to Britney Spears and Britney Spears alone, that would have been terrible. Yeah, I know. Britney Spears, really bad actress. Not sure she's ever had chemistry with anyone. Aw, that's sad. Yeah.

Bernie's had a tough go of it, but I'm just, you know, being honest here. Another potential was Reese Witherspoon. I don't know how much that one's really true. But, you know, that's out there as well. And then Ashley Judd, who would have been too old? I guess. I guess I don't really know how old Ashley Judd is. I'm pretty sure she would have been too old, but I don't know.

The weird, like, access around Justin Timberlake is pretty, it's just a weird thing to consider this alternate universe. Justin Timberlake, also not a good actor, but really fun in a social network. He is good in the social network. He went on to work with Nick Casabetti's in Alphadog. Great. And you want to know what's not a good movie? Alpha Dog. Alpha Dog.

Yeah. And no one cared to see. I think Amel Hirsch was also in that, right? Yeah. I think so. And that's a real time capsule movie of 2006. You mentioned Johnson Timberlake as a potential Noah. Were there other ones out there?

So apparently at one point, Stephen Spielberg wanted to direct this movie with Tom Cruise as the star, which I don't even know. I mean, I would like to have a dialogue with Steven Spielberg about what attracted him to this script, first of all. That would be fascinating. The war part? I guess so. We're certain it would have been a better outcome for Kevin Connolly had Steven Spielberg been directing. The Tom Cruise thing is really interesting.

I feel like 2004. So that was earlier. So maybe it's like turn of the century when Tom Cruise is possible. attached. It's right after Jerry McGuire that I think he was being considered. So I think that because I think that's why. You can see it, but that would be a different take on Noah that would not make the movie work, though I think is possibly accurate to the script. And again, I keep teasing some things that I would like to discuss about Noah in picking nits. But I think, like, I could see it, but I don't think it would be the romantic movie that we know would love today. Sure. Also, that's actually not correct what I

just said. I mean, Jeremy McWhor was in 96, and they were presumably casting for this in 2002. So I'm wrong. Six years later. I mean, yeah, that's like post- and this is like... Eyes wide shut, post-Nicol divorce. So things are turning, if you will. Maybe he wanted to be in a, in like, a romantic movie for that reason. But it didn't work out. I think maybe we'd lost the plot there. Because he's coming off of minority report, essentially, at this time, and Vanilla Sky. So it's definitely a weird one. I mean, these casting wadiffs are fun to think about because the where they landed is so perfect. And just like, you know, any other, no other chemistry could have really worked out.

And famously, they cast Ryan Gosling first. And one of the DVD extras was Rachel McAdams, like coming in for her read, essentially. And she looks even younger. And it's just very fun. I'm so happy they found her. I really am, too. And it just launched an amazing career. All right, let's move on so we can get to picking it sooner or other.

than later. Okay. The Dionne Waiters Award for the best heat check performance. Some nominees got to be Joan Allen, Gina Rollins, James Garner, and that might be it. Any other ones? I'm giving honorable mention to Sam Shepard. Okay. Who's like barely in this movie, but is so charming.

And also really, like, the Sam Shepard to Ryan Gosling link is very apparent. and charming. Yes, it works out. And then also James Mars. Let's include him as well. Okay. Andrew, make your case for the best heat check performance. I think it's Joan Allen.

It's just like throwing heaters as an extremely southern mom. I love her reading of, you know, Sarah Lawrence is in New York. Charleston's only a couple of hours away. But Ali's going to Sarah Lawrence. Didn't she tell you? No, she didn't tell me that. I just got the letter. I was going to tell you. And Sarah Lawrence is in New York.

And just I, she's hilarious as a, as a Southern lady and really brings like the evil parent vibe to that part that really splices up the movie. Evil parent who then tries to redeem herself a little bit by sharing her own story. Yeah. I just want to note, I'm sorry. Not to be too on brand, but I just want to note that this movie is also kind of like, is the, Matt, spiritually tied to one of my favorite series, One Tree Hill, because of its setting in the South. And

Paul Johansson is like the evil father. So weird. And one tree Hill. And this is just a really weird cameo for him. And then also since both his time on 90210 and One Tree Hill, Paul Johansson, there's been some really unkind articles about him that make him seem like perhaps not the best guy. So like, in retrospect, that also

is just a whole weird, weird thing. I don't know. Just very strange cameo from him. Amanda, make your case for the best Dion Wader's heat check performance. I'm going with James Garner. Okay. Because he pretty much carries the old people plot.

Yes. Which is hard to do, and he's very charming in it. So he's, I mean, with all respect to Gina Rollins, who's doing good work, but she's just supposed to, it's not a fun part. She's supposed to be confused the whole time.

He is carrying the narrative and emotional thrust of that entire plot. It makes it work. Yes, and also has to play it kind of straight Yeah. To make it seem like, so you don't know who it is essentially. Yes. I'm going to make the case for James Marsden.

Okay. Because he's so delightful and likable in this movie. I don't know. I just feel like it begins the James Marsden Good Guy saga, and it's really hard to be likable in that kind of role. I think that's valid. Yeah. I love Lon Hammond, Jr., of the Cotton Hammonds.

He also gets a bad rap in this movie. I feel so bad for Lon. What do you mean? I just don't think he's like that evil. He's not evil at all. Just because he has money. Just because he has money like we're supposed to root against him. Yeah, we'll also come back to his great hotel room line when we get to best quote.

He's got some good one-liners. And he just seems like a real charmer showing up at her school. That wasn't a good move, though I've got some questions about that. But just in general. Also, his attractive bravado and confidence comes across well when he's in the full body cast following his time in World War II. Yes. Just a great James Marzen performance.

But as Amanda knows, I also have a weakness for James Marson in the X-Men movies as Cyclops. Oh, right. Great characters. Just a fan. I'm just a fan. Just a lot of great, just a lot of great Diyadh Waiter's performances in this movie. That's true. Next, half-ass internet research. We've talked about quite a bit of it.

And yet there's more. For starters, James Garner seems like he did not really enjoy. his time in this movie or he's difficult to work with. Andrew, do you want to tell us some of an anecdote about James Garner and perhaps his relationship with Ryan Gossling? Yeah, so it seemed like Ryan Gossling was trying to get real actor to actor with James Garner and asking him about like what accent he was going to do. And James Gardner apparently told him, I don't do accents, kid.

I think he said accents are stupid. Just like such a funny thing. Like, shut up Ryan Gossing. Yeah, that's the thing. Team James Garner in this whole anecdote. And then he, Ryan Gosling was like, well, you know, I have blue eyes. You have brown eyes. What are we going to do?

And James Carter was like, I don't care. He just seems like no time for Ryan Gosling. Amanda, I know you've got a real affection for Ryan Gosling. I do. Even as this kind of like deep theater kid, do you still feel the same way trying to match his contact lens color and everything? I mean, this is like the part of Ryan Gosling that we try not to acknowledge, right? You try not to acknowledge. I try not to acknowledge because there is like really weird indie band indie movie Ryan Gosling.

And then there's like funny charm Ryan Gosling. And he seems to have like a one for them, one for me approach to movie making where sometimes you get the charm and sometimes you don't. So I am aware of the other half of it, which includes being like the really pesky method kid who's like, but what are we going to do about this? And it's really important that I write like extreme character biography. and journals for my characters before I show up, which I'm sure he did. I'm sure there's a Noah notebook somewhere in the archives that will be released upon his death. More half-ass internet research. He moved to South Carolina before the movie to, like, get comfortable with the terrain.

Yeah. This would definitely be weirder if he wasn't Canadian. Okay. To move, in my opinion. Because I just feel like a warm coastal town is probably foreign to you. Although he spent a lot of time in Florida. It's part of the Mickey Mouse Club. That's true.

He's, I mean, he's a Disney kid. Yeah, I just try to. acknowledge the other part of Ryan Gosselin. He contains multitudes, as Wall Whitman would say. I read he also started making furniture for this, to prepare for this role. Oh, my God. That's incredible. I did not read that. Thank you, Andrew. Wow. The furniture aspect of his character is kind of a fun wrinkle. I wish we got more of that, actually. Guy just knows how to be a contractor. I think we got the right about. I'm going to be honest. I think we got one close-up on the beautiful furniture that he's making in his studio workshop situation. Is that how he's paying the bills? I wondered about that.

That's a great question. I don't think we know who he's paying the bills. Okay. We don't, that's something we can come back to in picking Nits. We've got a long list here. Apex Mountain. We'll talk about Rachel McAdams in her incredible run in one moment. Can you make the case for anyone else?

Yes. Who? Nick Kessavis. Okay. And Nicholas Brooks. Yes. Okay. Great.

The two Nicks. I accept. You're right. You're right. I mean, with Nicholas Sparks, he really has made an industry off of this movie being successful. Yep. It's pretty remarkable. Andrew, what would compel you to read a Nicholas Sparks book?

Just curious. As your colleague, I just want to know. Like a lot of money? Probably the only thing. Good to know. As your employer, glad to know. Okay. Amanda?

Anything? You are more likely to do it because you could just sit down on one flight for like five hours and tear through it. Yeah, but it's, I kind of... But we get the gist, right? I get the gist from the movies, and I have enough southern authors or, like, kind of beach authors that I read. We should all just say, like, Nicholas Sparks got in trouble recently for some fairly, I believe it was. Bigoted, yeah. Bigoted remarks.

And, like, an email, he apologized, but, like, not great. You know. Comes through in this movie, as we said. And it comes through in this movie. And I really appreciate the other aspects of this movie, but I don't really need to read his books. Yeah. All right. Let's just talk about Rachel McAdams.

Great. It's just absolutely to me her Apex Mountain. This is. I'm going to go more than Mean Girls, yes. Okay. I really think so. I just think her charm and her, like, infectious energy really comes through. I was just, like, taken with her last night.

I know. So, but are we doing – because every time Bill is like, Apex Mountain is not subjective. Apex Mountain is about, like, the point in the career and not how you feel about it. Okay. Well, let's do a point in career. And then we can do an emotional assessment. Okay.

What is her objective career peak? Well, I think that it's wedding crashers because she has mean girls and notebook. And then she makes it to wedding crashers the next year. And that's a big thing. And it's kind of like. Would you say she crashed after that? Well, it doesn't work out. Yeah, no, I got it.

I thought that was a red-eyed joke. Oh, my God. It works both ways. Maybe she didn't capitalize on the moment the way that she wanted to. Though, you know, she makes it back. She was nominated for an Oscar for Spotlight. She was in Morning Glory, one of the great rom-coms of, the 21st century.

Agreed. Hard agree. It's on Hulu. Check it out. And she's been working and is like really respected. But I think kind of wedding Crashers is the moment where you're like, wow, she could do anything. Andrew, what do you think? It's her objective apex. I think it's this, I guess I would say the notebook because it's the one-two punch of mean girls followed by the notebook that like you see two sides of Rachel McAdams and she's like killing both of these roles. Right. I would go with the notebook.

I mean, I think movies-wise, it's undeniable wedding crashers. I mean, to your point, like, of writing that wave and everything. I would say maybe it's a notebook because of their relationship. I feel like their relationship makes them celebrities, in addition to the people, like, loving this movie. Yeah, that's a good point. And so without that, she's not as, like, famous or beloved. And I believe they're dating by the time wedding crashes comes out,

because that's in the summer of 2005. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure they had been public for a few months, essentially. Is her Apex the MTV VMA situation? It's so hot. That's a great question. I mean, it might be. Is that the best moment for time of his career?

Recreating a hot kiss? Everything is like aligned. And it is certainly like one of the handful of moments that we reference with her. There's that. There's mean girls. Yeah. Yeah. It also, yeah, I think when you put into effect in kind of like a Tom Cruise way or

Julia Roberts way, like how we've talked about them previously on the rewatchables, it's kind of like taking the career and then like what you make out of it in terms of taking the acting parts and how you turn it into being a celebrity, then it's a soaring high for her and Gosseling together. But subjectively, the notebook is your personal Rachel McAdams apex. Yeah, particularly upon a rewatch. Okay. I think.

I mean, I just, she was, she was my winner of the movie. I just think she's so fantastic. Also, so skinny in this movie. Like perhaps too skinny. She's very small. A lot of really defined waist. Great clothes. Great, great, great clothes.

It's part of the period piece. The 40s for sure. Yeah. And it's just a lot of flattering. So, like wearing a lot of things that you would see in Brooklyn now. So maybe we should have mentioned that on what day is the best.

But it comes into, it falls in line with the kind of the period piece idea. Agree. And it just really works very well. The Joey Pants Award. I can't remember what the Joey Pants Award is. Craig, can you remind us? Yeah, it's for the that guy in the movie.

Oh, right. That's Kevin Connolly. Right. The Joey Pants Award. Got to go to Kevin's Kevin Connolly, I guess. But I wonder, like, I don't think it was that guy at the time. I think it's just a 2019 that guy.

Yeah. I mean, in some ways, the that guy this movie is like, is like Gina Rollins, sort of. Yeah. Because she's like, oh, she's been around for so long. She's probably not as well known to people of our generation and younger. Yeah. But you, like, are vaguely familiar with her. I, in my notes that I took last night, I just kept calling him E throughout the movie.

So he's that guy for me. He will always be E. It's like surprising that he's not married to Emmanuel Shrieky in real life. Yes. Very surprising. Remember when he dated Nikki Hilton? Mm-hmm. What a time.

Yeah. One thing we kind of haven't really delved into and perhaps we can for a quick moment, tied into the MTV moment. It's like what a weird time 2004 or five was for celebrities, just what was popular. It was a real transition moment. And it's sort of the beginning of reality TV, really taking hold as well. So like Nikki Hilton was really famous and Paris Hilton, obviously. And it's sort of one of the reasons I feel like really.

McAdams and Ryan Gosling took off is there was kind of a hole. It's like we were coming out of the boy band era and it was before like later century, later decade like Kardashian business. Right. And it's post-benefer 1.0 and pre-Tomcat. Yes. Yeah. It's a weird.

It's pre-Bangeline. Yes, it is. 2004 is a weird moment. Yeah. And it was perfect for the notebook. One other, I think, I guess Paul Johansson, who I mentioned before. Yeah. Sure.

That one feels. It's so random. It's so random. He must have had lines that got cut, right? Like, I don't think Paul Johansson is signing up for a line, apart without any lines. I shuddered to think what the extension of that scene would be. Probably would have been convenient for him to film, though, with Wondry Hill, you know? Yeah, close.

Carolina. Yeah, this probably filmed right before Wondry Hill started, which is obviously a foundational text for me, which is why I keep bringing it up. Solved Rubeneck Award for overacting, overreacting, excuse me. Joan Allen? Yep. It's got to be Joe Allen. But you guys put her in... What did she win for music?

I said what age is the worst? I think Dion Waiters. I think it's a bit of a heat check. You do? Make the case, Andrew. I mean, I don't... So when Dion Waders has a heat check, it's not necessarily like a good thing.

But it's like, wow, she's really going for it. This is a great point. I have never understood. Is this award for doing the most with the least? Or is it for some basketball? skip all shit. I don't understand. It's sort of like you've got the hot hand and you need to be checked. Like what will what will keep you down? Let me make the case for Joan Allen. I don't really know how to explain

it. I know no one in however many years we've been doing this. It's Bill always says it's doing the most with the least. Yeah. Okay. Right. Which is why I'm giving it to James Garner, but I interpret that in a positive way. Usually when a heat check is like you're playing so well and such a short amount of time. Okay. Right. Which is not the same as doing the most of the least. You know, that's, I just made perhaps mistitled.

All right. I would like to say some critical things about Joan Allen now. Please do. Amanda, you have the floor. Thank you so much.

I seen that stood out to me upon my rewatch last night is when they are trying, when Rachel McAdams is trying on the wedding dress and there are like 15 anonymous women with terrible southern accents in the room. And they're all there for like the unveiling of the dress just among the women,

I guess. and then they're talking about how it's going to be the society event of the year. And Joan Allen is really leaning into her scheming southern accent mom role. And it doesn't work for me. It's a very weird moment. She's like society event of the season of the year. It is the thick as her accent gets. It's tough.

She also does like a little shimmy in there, a little like shake of the shoulders. And it's a very odd moment. I think she brings home the emotional. stuff at the end. But the first half, when she is just playing kind of shallow Southern mom, it's a bit much for me. How do you guys feel about her when they're at the like dance, whatever that dances with the like offensively stereotypical, largely black band, brass band? That has to be a dance double, right? For Joan Allen? Yeah, because she does like full racquet leg kicks. Yes, absolutely. So that's how I feel about that. Andrew, did that scene strike you as odd.

All that works for me. I'm sorry, guys. I'm on board with evil Joan Allen. Okay. Okay. Do what you feel. I also want to note, that band leader is Obababatunday, who is the Ossid principal in season three of Dawson's Creek, which I believe is filmed right around the same time as the notebook.

That, again, to me, is a Carolina connection. I just want to shout it out. That guy's super famous to me, and he's sort of another that guy. But again, these are all, like, WB-related that guys, so it doesn't apply to most normal people. Definitely I'll do in too much by Joan Allen. There's a couple of flashes. I mean, also Kevin Connolly totally doing too much, but we've already established. We just have already established.

Joan Allen's kind of like the third biggest lead in this movie, and she's not in it that much. I guess fourth after James Marzen, it's really hard to make a case for anyone else even based on how much they're in the movie. It's true. I'm sorry, Joan Allen. You're a wonderful fine actress. I saw her on Broadway recently. in the Waverly Gallery, and she was excellent. But she was not channeling that energy in the notebook.

Let's pick some nits. I'm so ready. Amanda, you go first. All right, so here's my number one. This is the big one. Okay. Okay. I wrote all this in caps.

Can someone please explain the timeline of the home restoration to me? And Long or are Allie and Lawn engaged? Okay. I similarly wrote on Alley and Lawn. Let's talk about that timeline first because I also wanted to get into it. So this movie begins in 1940, I believe they say. Yes. That sounds right.

Yes, it is. June 6, 1940 is when they meet. Yes. And it is, it's the summer. I guess we can assume that Allie at 17 will be starting Sarah Lawrence in the fall. So it's the fall of 1940. So then she graduates in the spring of 1944. So I assume, isn't Sarah Lawrence a four-year college?

Yes. Okay. So that's four-year. And then it's another two years, I guess, later until she reunites with Noah in 1946 after the war and everything. It's 1947 because she said, yeah, 47. I waited for seven years for you. Now it's too late. Yeah.

So she's dating Lon or engaged in him for, as we know, her basically three years. I think we can assume it's the summer again when she goes back to see Noah again. And Amanda, having laid that out, like, What are your biggest questions still remaining? Because I've got some, but I want to hear yours first. Well, that makes sense that they meet like the 40, the end of the war, 1944, 1945. And they show it, they should them meeting up and Noah coming home at the same time. Right.

It's also possible that perhaps you took a year off to go be a nurse. True. That's all fine. I'm concerned about we are shown the engagement and then we are shown Noah starting work on the house. And then we are shown the engagement announcement or the preparations for the wedding, I'm sorry, which could take a little time. Though, like, in the 40s, by the way, it was like six weeks between the time you were married. That's my main question is why didn't she get married? Not to be like rude, but this girl, this woman, would have gotten married way younger, way faster.

Yes. But it showed the entire home restoration. Also, like Sam Shepard dies at some point also between the engagement and the part of the part of the, the home being finished. They're showing him go floorboard by floorboard. That house needs new everything. He pulls off the facade. It's a one-man job.

And somehow, that's true. No one else is helping him. And somehow he is featured in the same newspaper as the plans, the announcement of her wedding, which even if you're, even if they took a long time to plan a society wedding, I'm giving them six months max between engagement and wedding in the 40s. I agree. You cannot renovate a home like this in six months with one person. Not a good job, at least.

No. And it's a beautiful home. There's a lot of like the timeline that just doesn't make sense at all. Okay. I agree with you. All right. There's no answer there. Thank you.

I just needed to get that out in the open. Andrew, do you have a major knit you need to pick? So I don't know if this is controversial, but I have some concerns with early Noah and Allie's relationship and the health. Okay. I thought about this too. Andrew, I know what you're saying. Yeah.

A lot of it is based on like pure adrenaline and. Yeah. And basically hating Ali's mom. And also they get into a lot of physical fights. Yeah. Like not in a cute way, but in a whoa, they're hitting each other way. Yeah. And I don't know.

It doesn't look like the best. relationship. It's true. The fighting is very aggressive. Yes. It's not just like bickering. It's like it is fiery. Yes.

That is true. They are very physical. And I do wonder to the extent of which it's just meant to communicate their passion. Sure. Because you can't show them, you know, actually having passion. Although you can. It turns out later in the movie. No, Andrew, I had the same thought.

It's been interesting, especially when you're watching Big Little Eyes. I'm just kind of like, oh, maybe we should rethink. the connection between physical aggression and physical passion. And also, like, Noah, where did your personality go? I understand, I understand that you've been through a lot and the last seven years have been tough for you. But he has like a personality transplant. And like, he spends a lot of time not talking in the second half of the movie.

And then that guy transforms back into James Garner. It's just sort of weird. It's true. Here's the thing that I'm going to say. Okay. And I had this underwent answer. question, but it is also kind of a nitpick because I know what I think about it. Like, is it healthy to build an entire house for a person that you haven't spoken to in seven

years and then buy all of the painting supplies, including the sketch notebooks and the different pencils and the canvases and have everything just like waiting in a house for someone? Like, we all inter, that's romantic in the context of the movie. is it in real life? No. Yeah. It's weird and stalkery. Yeah.

It's creepy. And there's something about the house itself. I mean, like, I guess like a beautiful house is my love language. So I understand him wanting to redo the house. He had this vision. But there's something about stocking the painting room. Like, it's the third sketch notebook that I was like, this is a little intense. It's sort of like flip side, Mrs. Havasham.

Very similar. Yes. And she was considered a mad woman. Yes. So definitely a double standard in it, for sure. Yeah. And it is a little bit of the Lloyd Dobler thing of like what is romantic in movies, like standing outside someone blasting.

It is just like actually super inappropriate and not accepting boundaries in real life. Acknowledge boundaries, people. Yes, exactly. And move on. But so to that point, I give Brian Gosling credit for channeling kind of the break with reality that would be necessary to do this. I agree with you. And it's not healthy. Similarly, with Rachel McAdams, she goes off the grid essentially.

That time of year, she kind of grows off the grid for like two or three days. And that's really rude to this lovely man, lawn. Like, that's just, like, messed up. I agree. And I've just, and I, again, like, that's not good behavior. Yeah, I agree. Because you're not contactable in 1947 if you're on Seabrook Island, even if he does call the hotel like a million times. Do we even know if Ryan Gosling has what kind of phone?

system is he operating with on his remote home? Probably none. Yeah. It's just him and his sketched notebooks. Why couldn't Ryan Gosling have another friend after Kevin Connolly died? Well, I mean... Once you have E. You can't. There's no, there's no other friends.

No other friends for you. Next on our list of categories, that's quote. Wait, no, I have two more to picks. Sorry, Amanda. They're smaller. Okay. Okay, number one related to the painting scene. Yeah.

But I literally think this every single time I watch this movie. Like, how does Ryan Gosling have so many times to have so much time to cut like so many different shaped arrows? Yeah. They're all different shapes. It's not even like he's folding a piece of paper. Like that is in two-hour project, Max. Also, that paper looked like straight up Xerox paper, which is not 1947 approved. It's true.

Didn't make sense. Okay. Another one. James Marzen's proposal, extremely confluited. I don't understand it. It is a weird entry. thing about like your mom and your parents hate you and the something. I see what they're trying to do.

I don't think he gets there. Yeah. I agree. Also, I'm just never a fan of I've asked your parents already. I understand that in the 40s it was like totally acceptable to do so, but I hate it every time. Yeah. But the stuff before that just doesn't make sense. It's like we just could have used a rewrite on that, frankly.

Yeah. Andrew, do any other nets? He is, I know he's not trying to sell the plantation, but he's only asking $50,000 for it. which in the 1940s is like $500,000, which is just not enough money. Like, just know he needs a better understanding of the real estate market and the land that he has. I agree with that.

It's just insane. That's a great point. That's a great point. Classic Noah, not consulting an expert. I realize I have one more. I'm very sorry. No, please. I feel that this movie ends quite abruptly.

Wasn't dying? Yeah. Yes. I have forgotten. It's just like, it literally just like pans up from the end of the vet. bed and then roll credits. I would have ended the movie and Allie returning to the house and that would have been enough.

The shrug. Yes. That McAdams shrug is just all time. It's out there with the Jordan shrug. Yeah. When this movie's on TV, that's when I stop watching it. There's no need for the extra 15 minutes of old people. Yeah, but that is when I start weeping and I'm just like, wow, love is real.

It's really important. That's how you know they lived happily ever after. Yeah. And that's how you work together. You have all of the old people stuff leading up to it where he's reading the story and you realize it's him. Yeah, but you want to know, like, you can't just leave the plot line of them in this sad hospital unresolved. I have no investment in them in the hospital at all.

So this is the movie that Netflix did alternate ending for without telling people. Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. What was the alternate ending? The alternate ending is them just going to bed with each other. Like, is that, like, biblical code for having sex or is they just like went to sleep? With the old people, yeah, the old people going to bed. And there's no scene where a nerd. finds them dead.

Okay. I also think that would have been better. I think that's better, actually. I agree. Yeah. I agree. Shout out Netflix. They make a lot of good decisions.

I just didn't need the whole 15-minute epilogue, and I usually love an epilogue. Wow. I'm sorry. I maybe also don't need it, but that is when I just start convulsing, and I just, like, can't stop crying. I don't know why. I mean, it is sad. I might be cold at heart, but this movie.

has never moved me to tears. Wow. I don't even know what to say to that. I don't know. Me and Craig in the corner, just valuing love and love that lasts a lifetime. I don't know. It's weird.

You would think that based on a lot of the evidence I've presented, it would like really hit me hard. You also love sad shit. Yeah, I know. But this doesn't make it. This is so sad. I think the old people have ruined it for me, I guess. I will say, the reason that I think this movie ends abruptly is because I want one more young

Noah and Allie. That's what I want. It does seem to end. like you want more. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. You're here for Ryan Gosling and

that's true. But I need more than her just coming back because as Andrew pointed out, it's not a guarantee that it's going to work out perfectly. So I just want, I want like one nice moment. But the whole premise of the old people

is that it does work out well. I guess so. Or maybe the premise is that Noah is just like following her around and reading, like, has just not let go and is just like putting new sketch notebook. under her bed every day. But their kids come.

That's true. They have kids. I mean, I just, I want. It's just a divide. Some people are interested in the old people's story and some are not. Okay. I think we should have to accept it. Okay.

Best quote. We went over a lot of these in that scene because that's what makes them so good. Amanda? For me, it's if you're a bird. I'm a bird. Okay. Andrew? Yeah, that's the obvious one.

I do like, I wrote you 365 letters. I wrote you every day for a year. It wasn't over. It still isn't over. It wasn't over for me. I waited for you for seven years. Now it's too late. I wrote you 365 letters.

I wrote you every day for a year. You wrote me? Yes. It wasn't over. It still isn't over. It still isn't over. It's just incredible. However, I still check.

I still select. I want all of you forever, you and me every day. Okay. I just love that. But I also like to fight. So there's that. Could this work at the 10 episode Netflix show in 2019? Yes. Show me the full house renovation at a proper timeline. Would we, if we adapted this into 10 episodes, would you want the same ratio of old to young? I would want like 80% young, 20% old. Give me like a Princess Bride situation. I think I was like Princess Bright as well.

Yeah. Andrew? Yeah, that sounds right. As long as we're assuming that the chemistry between the actors who are playing Noah and L.E.R. is as good. Yeah, that's an extremely important point by Andrew. It has to be Gosling and McAdams level or else it doesn't work as a Netflix series. And I think also unknowns in the same way that they were like basically unknown.

Yeah. Or not. I mean, at the time of release, Ryan Gosling was that guy. Mm-hmm. He's a, he's that. I watched Breaker High. Did you guys ever watch that? I didn't.

I used to like run home from school to see it. I just love teed programming. But yeah, he was like a total back guy at that point. I think that you also want that for this. That makes sense. Unanswerable questions. I have a big one. How did Noah get off the fair?

Thank you. That's mine too. There's no explanation. How the fuck did he get down from there? Don't they just start moving it slowly so he can get down? I don't know. If he's hanging on, that's what I assumed. That seems dangerous.

Like he gets like. It's already dangerous. I don't know. As I was watching, I was just like, what the fuck? How does he get off there? Yeah.

Thank you, that's my guess, is that they just keep moving the Ferris wheel until he can, and they'll gently put him on the ground. Because they can go like one by one, you know,

so it kind of goes down until he can stop, drop, and roll. I have another question for you guys. Okay. When James Marsen arise at Sarah Lawrence College, does Allie Hamilton

know who she's looking at? Does she like instantly? recognize him. I think that you're supposed to think she does. I just want to say it. I didn't. I had too many in it like picking minutes. But the extent of his injuries in the hospital, I just, I'm curious. Right. That's kind of where I am. So like, major question, what injuries did he incur and how do he survive them? I have no idea. But with that level of cast, there's some internal bleeding. And I just have some larger questions. But I think in the magical world where he's like, okay and just suddenly looks really hot in his uniform like six months later, then, yes, she recognizes him.

Andrew? I kind of went back and forth rewatching for this. Like, it seems like she recognizes him, but then it also kind of seems like she's just like, oh, a cute guy is looking at me. And they walk fully past him and he has to be like, hey, like remember me. So I don't know. Yeah, it is weird. It's very strange.

And also her friends are like, oh, who's that guy? Like, it's not like she was thinking about him as far as we could tell because they were confused. It's not like she was talking him up, the hot man in the full body cast who asked me out. That was a weird one. What are the other questions you guys have? I already asked mine, which is, like, is building a whole house for a person healthy behavior? But it is answerable. The answer is no.

So is the Paris feel. It turns out we do have the answer to many of these questions. Andrew? Why are Noah and Allie's kids so. kind of cold-hearted? They're not cold-hearted. I know it's complicated. If your mom doesn't recognize you.

But they're like, hey, like, can we just like leave her here and like you come home and we'll check on her once in a while? Like that, how did the, it needs to be explained to them that their dad wanted to be with their mom? Elder care is very complicated. I know it's tough, but it seemed a little weird. I don't think society has the answers to how to deal with elder care to be on. To the answer, to be honest. It's an unanswerable question for all of us.

Yeah, there you go. On that note, who won the movie? The answer is not elder care. Jesus. My answer is Rachel McAdams. Andrew? Ryan Gosling. I think with Rachel McAdams,

I've already expressed how much I love her in this movie. She's so good. But meanwhile, on Andrew's side, he gets the best lines. All of our lines are Ryan Gosling lines, you know? but would he be this great character without her? No. No, certainly not. No.

It's like a performance in reaction and it's really amazing. So it's like we're watching science chemistry? Yeah. But I think that she is the dynamic force in this movie. She's pretty amazing. Andrew, Andrew, make your case. Come on. Just as I said earlier, I kind of thought, I kind of feel that Ryan Gosling is the one setting the tone for this relationship.

and she's the one who has to, like, hit the balls back to him. And, like, granted, she does fully match him. I think if it was another actor who maybe wouldn't go to this place, then we don't get this relationship that we see. I think that's accurate. They're so well-matched. I mean, like, one wouldn't be who he or she is without the other. I think ultimately, as I said, I find that Rachel McCannes,

like, steals it with her charisma, but it's really a perfect pair. Beautiful stuff. Andrew and Amanda, thank you so much. Thank you today's sponsors. We got Voodoo, which is a leading streaming app

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