The Rewatchables - ‘The Pelican Brief’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Everyone Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins have told about this podcast is dead. But that doesn’t stop them from rewatching the 1993 American legal thriller ‘The Pelican Brief,’ starring Julia Roberts and Denzel Washington. The film is based on the 1992 novel by John Grisham and directed by Alan J. Pakula. The Rewatchables Cold Weather Tour is here!! For tickets please head to theringer.com/events Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And together we host The Big Picture, The Ringers Film Podcast for new releases, career retrospectives, director interviews, movie drafts, top fives, and so much more. Twice a week, we break down the latest releases,

argue about whether movies are doomed, and debate our modern film canon. Listen to The Big Picture on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Build for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to

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where you can find the big picture in jam session with the man of daubbins. The big picture with Sean Fentasy. What are you up to, C.R.? I forgot. I'm pilot.

I'm editing a bunch of stuff right now. I'm excited to present it to you. Oh, good. Can we end of the year? Yeah. Sounds awesome. Would you say you're composing a brief? That's right.

One thing CR is going to be up to. End of January, the week of January 29th. We are hitting four cities and five days for the rewatchables cold weather tour. Chicago, D.C., Philly, New York. All the details on dates, venues, times the movies will cover. And more importantly, how to get tickets is at the ringer.com slash events. So tickets will go on sale Tuesday. this podcast will be up.

Tickets will go on sale Tuesday, 10 a.m. Eastern Time. Pay attention, Chicago. That's 9 a.m. Central. All the details are at the ringer.com slash events. Again, rewatchables, hitting the road. Chicago, D.C., Philly.

New York City. What could possibly go wrong? Four straight nights of cruising. We're doing four and five nights. We're going to put a break in between. Okay, I'm in LA, so I have to get up at 7 a.m. To buy tickets. Yeah.

January 29 through February 2nd. You can find out the movies. The Philly movie is still TBD, but we're doing the fugitive in Chicago. We're doing Forrest Gump in D.C., and we are doing rounders, the rerounders in New York City. So we hope to see you there.

We'll be disappointed if you don't come. And now we're going to talk about a movie that's way too long from 1993 that I love anyway. The Pelker Brief is next. I've told about it. I'll take my chance. From the best-selling author of the firm and the client comes the suspense thriller of the year. Julia Roberts, Denzel Washington.

The Pelican Race, rated PG-13, starts Friday, December 17th at a theater near you. All right, Amanda, Sean Chris. Amanda, this is one of your favorites. Why? Julia Roberts, Denzel Washington, John Grisham Adaptation, I was nine years old and I didn't know better. Sean? I don't know if it's one of my favorites, but it's basically one of my three or four favorite film directors of all time, kind of digging into his old bag of tricks to elevate something that is maybe not even necessarily worthy of his bag of tricks.

Some Alan J. karaoke? Yeah, a little bit. And of course, like the star power that Amanda talked about. And I was, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old when Grisham took off. And I was reading those novels and kind of into those novels. And at the time, I was like, This guy's like the new J.D. Salinger. I was like, this is a great fucking artist.

This guy can fucking write. These characters. You were like Frannie and Zui and raised the roof beam and the Pelican Brief? Yeah, so I was in, I really liked this era of Grisha movies, so it's a fun one. CR. One of the great book slash movie ideas of all time.

The Pelican brief? Which I think we've mentioned before, but here's the premise. Two Supreme Court justices with nothing in common are murdered. So why? Oh, a 24-year-old grad student. perhaps to be very attractive, comes up with a crazy conspiracy theory, but one thing, she's right,

and now she's in danger. I can sell that in a room in 10 seconds. Yeah, you just did. I think you should have done the voiceover for the trailer. Like, instead of the guy who's like, in a world, like, you should be like, who says no? That was the 90th trail ever. Do you remember anticipating this?

Yeah, I think that, you know, it's funny. Since it came out, I think I looked at this movie is probably a little bit of a less successful adaptation as the firm than the firm. But since its release and like over the decades,

it's become just like a very, very, very pleasant like movie to have on. Like it is kind of to go back to the core foundation of this pod. Like the kind of thing that when it's on, you're like, I'm not watched 20 minutes of Pelican Bree. And I felt that just,

just this time watching it for the pod. Two major stars. Absolutely. A nice point of their career. Yes. Julia is on a little 88 to 93, Mystic Pizza, Steel Magnolia's, Pretty Woman, Flatliners, engaged, leaves Kiefer Sutherland at the altar. Little Jason Patrick starts moving toward Lowe, Love it, Dying Young, Hook, two years off. A lot of rumors.

Comes back with the Pelican Brief. And reclaims her Julianness. Yes. But it still doesn't really totally happen for her until 97 when she. when she grabs the crown again. This is another, she's trying things. She's trying to work her way back in. The press coverage in 93 of her return

and the two years that she took off and everything before is absolutely nuts. You sent us some of it. I did. She was also on the cover of Vanity Fair, and there's a long Q&A that is just, it's not how we cover celebrities anymore. Confrontational?

Yeah. Yeah. It's more like prove to me you weren't a Coke addict Yeah Right You weren't you sure Do you ever see cocaine Yeah they don't do it that way

And she is also in 93 Just way more engaged And there's just so much There's so many quotes She's feisty She's just also like talking at great lengths She's telling like anecdotes and stuff All of this nonsense and you know

And she read this and she disagrees with this And she has like lots of theories On the press coverage of her which I, you know, she's always been very personal. That's part of her charm. But it's fascinating to read her. Just be like, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Yeah, I saw her on the view and they were like, boy, Matthew Perry passed away. And like, did you ever watch Friends? And she just like scoots right past the question. It's like, not even just like, oh, yeah, well, I was on Friends and blah, blah, blah. It's like, yeah. She had the famous underwear episode. I know. I had the premiere magazine that I dug up where she's on the cover and it's like the Julia

comeback piece written by Chris. for Conley and it's weird she takes pot she goes after the Steel Magnolia's director at one point

because there were all these rumors about Herbert Ross was being thrown the set which she confirms and then just absolutely annihilates

him and says he was mean and he was out of line in my opinion I don't give a shit but if he thinks he can talk about

me in such a condescending way and not have me say something about it then he's nuts I remember him saying to me once, when this movie's over, you're going to take acting classes? And she said, why should I?

blah, blah, but just annihilates him. This stuff never, does this ever happen anymore where somebody just goes off on somebody? No, everyone's really careful. It's really funny, though, that her reputation is as America's sweetheart because her persona is as a very flinty, defiant, strong-willed person. Yeah.

So even though she's so beloved, I feel like one of the reasons she's beloved is because she was willing to do things like this. She was willing to say, screw you. I'm who I am. It was a good letterman guest. Yeah, but they're definitely, I mean, I heard the rumors in Boston, and I didn't know any Hollywood people.

It was like, oh, yeah, Julia, I had to go away. It was, you know, the vestiges of the 80s, but she's, like, adamant. I didn't do drugs. I think she got so white-hot famous that people seem to deal with that in different ways, as we've discussed many times. Right. At a very young age, too.

She was really young when she got it. She was the biggest female star in the world in 1990. Yeah. From that movie. And it happened so quickly. It's like sleeping with the enemy isn't even out or she's filming it when she's doing Pretty Woman and suddenly everything overnight

just becomes like the Julia Roberts show. Yeah, she's 20 when she was cast in Mystic Pizza. I mean, that's crazy. I just watched a piece of that recently and she's great in it. It's hard to believe that it took two more years for her to become a major star because you watch that movie

and it just seems like a Julia Roberts movie in the catalog now. Sean, would this have been a better movie in 1976 with Robert Redford as Greg Ratham and Jessica Lang as Darby Shaw. Does this movie make more sense in the 70s? I have a follow-up question to that, which is

is this movie better if Gordon Willis shoots it? Should this movie have just been a 1975 movie? Is it 18 years late? Really, it just boils down to the script for me. I think if it's a better script than yes, but it's... And Pakula wrote the script himself.

He adapted the book. To me, it's not about the time that it takes place in, because honestly, like, this story is very resonant right now. Like, you can make this movie right now, and you could find an interesting way. Like, our fascination with the Supreme Court and the geometry of the Supreme Court is kind of eternally interesting.

So I think you could have made it at any time. I wouldn't want to trade away any of the big three from the Paranoia trilogy that Pekula made. I wouldn't want to put in the Pelican Brief. Pelican Brief instead of all the presidents men. Yeah, it could have been the fourth one. It could have been. He could have punted on comes a horseman

and done this instead, and that would have been interesting. But I don't know. This is a weird one because he didn't write a lot of scripts, Bikula, but the ones that he did write were often adaptations because I think he looked at source text and was like, I know how to do this. I know what this is in my head.

It's like Chris operates. Yeah. It's like scanning the rewatchables lineup and saying like, Forrest Gump, I know exactly what to do there. I take KOC stuff and I just move it into, you know, the word needs to be. The case for it existing perfectly in 1993 is what it meant to Julian Denzel and just like this is Denzel in the same month. Well, there's also like the larger Grisham thing and it happening, you know, as the Clinton era starts and is going and this idea that like a younger generation of idealists could fix the corrupt institutions of the world or could there is still like this idea of justice that could supersede the corruption that's out there.

and as we found, I don't know if that's exactly true, but we'll probably talk about that more throughout the pod. This is, Sierra, your energy seems low. Third pod today? Fourth? No, I'm waiting to hear where we're going to go with this. Reddit Conspiracy probably changes this movie a little bit. Yeah, yes.

This movie might have created the Reddit conspiracy board. You could make a case. She does the hardcore, like, law library, like putting it all together by hand, though. She's really, she's doing the work. I have a lot of questions about that, though. This could be a long picking nits. Yeah, absolutely. An unanswerable questions also.

Do you want to use this as an opportunity to entree your feelings about kind of the greater conspiracies of this country that you've been thinking about? Sure. I mean, this is stepping on my hot take a little bit. Oh, you want to do Vince Foster. I'm sure. Now I'm back. CR is up. No, you know, just at some point while we're talking about conspiracy theories, I did want to point that it is the 60th anniversary of JFK.

Yeah. And I don't feel like I've gotten enough content from you on that besides what's up on Twitter. So, you know, anything you're surprised that you didn't do what the doctors saw. We haven't done a pot. Listen, who says I'm not? There's just a lot of content. Interesting. I go, you know, when I need the content, I dive in.

It is high season for you. Yeah. There's been some good stuff. I've been on some text threads. There's been some conversations. Okay. Yeah. Will you be declassifying any documents?

I thought the doctor's JFK doc was pretty luminous. Like they, all those dudes were in the hospital and were like, yeah, his back of his head was blown out. And they changed the autopsy. I don't know. I'm going to take that seriously. How does that fit with the four bullets theory, which is your, are you still, I think there were four bullets? Do you know I listen to the JFK rewatchables like once a year when I need some comfort? That's like, if I had to like distill what I love about the three of you and how weird you are, it is like JFK rewatchable. Is Sean refusing to hear the three? John is just like, I'm not prepared for this.

And you're just like, I think LBJ knew something. And you're just like, he knew. Maybe it wasn't him, but he knew. You're just like throwing in the CIA or whatever. It's very special. Let's see, I definitely was a while. Sure. One thing I learned this last time that I didn't, wasn't in my research,

was that there were military people that were there, people who had fought in wars. And when they heard all the shots, they heard them from different places. Because when you're fighting in battles, you're trained to kind of think, oh, that's coming that way, that's behind me. and as they were there, they were like,

some shots are to the left, some shots are to the right. Okay. I thought that was telling. You and I did the work, we went to the book depository. Was it you who did it? Did you pull this?

No, we're just investigating. We're doing our own research. Back to this movie. This was the big Denzel A-plus Lister breakout month. Yeah. He is this in Philadelphia.

He is acting with the two biggest white actors in the world at that point, Tom Hanks. And I think Hanks had grabbed the belt from Cruz at that point. Maybe Kostner's in there too. You want to revisit it?

He's somewhere in there. Julia's the biggest female star we had. And he just bangs both of them at the same time. And then from that point out, it's Denzel season tickets, which starts the year before of Malcolm Xx. I was trying to figure out whether or not for Denzel and Julia here, like other times that the two biggest stars of male and female star were paired together. And like, especially for this one,

which we'll probably get to, is to not have a romantic plot line be a part of that. It's pretty wild. But it doesn't happen very often in Hollywood. You'd think they would effort to make that more and more common. A lot of research on this,

which will, I don't know when you want to go to it. We're doing a podcast. Let's go, man. You're in charge. Well, I already got my JFK stuff, so. One thing, there's an urban legend that the studio squashed the interracial romance, which is not true.

Debunked. Yeah. Yeah, it's like easily debunk. Julia was in the novel they're both white in the they cast Denzel because she pushes hard for Denzel and then she was up for let's keep the novel and Denzel was the one who squashed it and he was like I just don't feel like

the audiences want that but he was really as it came out later he later admitted his core audience a big piece of it was black women and they and he was worried that they would be upset if he hooked up with Julie Roberts in a movie and two years later the same thing with Virtue same thing with Kelly Lynch cut it out it was just like he was almost like a political candidate I know what my base is this is bad for my base and he was the one that squashed it but I had thought

for 30 years that the studio squashed it untrue yeah studios did other stuff like they squashed Eddie Murphy and Golden Child they cut that out um Beverly was cop they said no love scene for Eddie really yeah yeah so there was a couple but in this one it was Denzel who did it do you think that the movie suffers because of that I mean, it's 141 minutes. They probably could have thrown in a three minute something. What do you think, Sean? Keeping his powder dry for Miliovovich and he got game.

If I'm going to kiss a white woman on screen, it's going to be a prostitute in this film. Well, that's when he changed. I don't think that there's a really good case for them hooking up in the movie, except that we just want to see it. Yeah. Of course you want to see two of the most beautiful and charismatic people alive get together. But in the mechanics of the story, I actually, especially at the end, I really like that it's like a partnership and a friendship that concludes the movie. It feels like a more fitting ending.

What do you think? Journalistically, it would be an ethical, you know, just on a basic journalist source. You should still be morning time. This is the span of two weeks. And we don't need to get too far into my rules of like morning, you know. How long will you? be giving it. When Zach is destroyed by a car bomb.

Yeah. Zach's a great guy. I would be upset a few weeks later. Me too. Yeah. I like exactly. Listen, okay, since we're there, let's get on the record now. Two weeks would be too short. Two weeks is tight.

You know, plus they also are solving like a conspiracy. But they're just thrown together in these incredibly intimate situations. The cabin, the rain is palpable. You know, the camera really lingers both in that hotel room. What's that one scene when their heads are in the room and they're touching each other but not really. Right, and they're just like pouring over the list. You know, it's sort of unavoidable.

And then that last scene, I agree with you, Sean, that like you want them to come together as partners, except it's like scored as like a romance for the ages, you know? And she like runs back and it's like a classic movie, ooh, they're going to kiss. I would have been fine with one kiss, you know, just to acknowledge. Can I do my David Spade voice for that? I like that ending the first time I saw it when it was called the bodyguard. They totally ripped it off. It was like a year before.

But it still got me. It was good. I think Denzel's character should have been married. And that would have solved. Here's why they don't get together. Have the two scenes with him and his kids. Yeah, I guess so. The fact that he's single and she's single makes it seem like it's going to happen.

Listen, the movie's already 141 minutes and you don't want like the sissy SpaceX JFK. Like, where are you going in the middle of the night? Like this weird guy keeps calling me on the phone. I'm kind of into like single Denzel. I like that house. If we're adding more minutes to the movie, you want more Tucci disguises. I see,

I would have turned into the spin and had Denzel have a white wife. Like Ashley Judd, and then he's cheating on her with, you know. Interesting how you had Ashley Judd out of your fingertips there. Someone you thought of.

Also, why is 40-year-old Denzel Washington, who's a successful newspaper reporter, single in this movie? That's weird. And he doesn't seem a little older than her, but I don't, would say, in real life,

probably like 10, 12 years older. because like I think he's in his late 60s and she's in her late 50s. Because Mo Better Blues was on TV the other day and that's only three years. That movie's amazing. We got to do that in the rewatch world. But he looks so young and skinny in that movie

and it's only three years before this. It's like he ages 10 years in the three years. He seems like a 39-year-old guy. He's like a real sex symbol in that movie. He really is. And as he's making decisions in his career, you can see that he's like, I'm the guy in the suit. Like you mentioned it could have been rob.

of Redford in this movie in the 70s. He's like, I'm the guy who's in charge. Like in Philadelphia, I'm in the suit. In this movie, I'm in the suit. Even in virtuosity, I'm in the suit. So I think that that's like a very conscious choice for him to kind of like age up a little bit. Bernstein and Woodward aren't dating and all the president's men. They're not dating each other. Well, no, I mean, they're not dating each other, but they don't.

No, Carl is super horny in all the presidents. Right. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, right. He's hitting on. Legendary stick man, Carl Bernstein. And it's just sticks everywhere. Yeah.

He's just smoking in the elevator. This just sets off 30 years and counting of Denzel though this month. Yeah. We are 30 years removed. This movie came out 30 years ago, and he's still in A-plus list of leading movies and throwing him on posters. Amazing run. He's the man. Cruz is like, I made another Mission Impossible.

Just step back from the ledge, honestly. Do you see Mission Impossible? Do you see Mission Impossible? Do you're petting this away? I refuse. What? Why? It was pretty good. Really weird movie watching year from you.

This is loser behavior. This is absolutely ridiculous. I just wasn't in the mood yet. I'm gonna watch it at some point. I'm appalled. I'm gonna watch it. Are you trying to denigrate Cruz, who's like basically the patron saint of this podcast?

Cruz is my favorite actor. I'm just, I haven't gotten around to it yet. It's a 30-year drought for him. I don't do movie karaoke. What does that mean? It's like the ninth mission impossible. You've done Rocky 3 on this pie. What are you talking about?

It's just not there yet. I haven't been ready. It's been a busy year. Football basketball basketball basketball. A lot of content. I think you should watch it. It's a good movie. I'll get there. I'm saving it. The Pelican Brief Theory goes

like this. Oil tycoon Victor Matisse. No relation to Victor Matisse. Wasn't that the guy's name in Berberlose Cop? That's right. That's weird. He's exploiting the oil found beneath Louisiana

marshland. It's a habitat for endangered subspecies of brown pelicans. And there's a court appeal. that denies him the drilling rights. And our girl Darby believes she attacks it really smart. She says, all right, why these two judges? Yes.

What do they have in common? What they rule for? Oh, they're both pro-environment. Deep dives somehow does this without the internet during the Lexus Nexus era. When I was in grad school for this era, you literally couldn't find anything. No. You couldn't even find out who George Washington was. It took two hours.

If it wasn't on the back of a baseball card, I didn't know. Yeah, it was, it just... I just didn't know it. You're sitting a library and just know it, that, what was that, uh, modem noise? Yeah, it was the worst. But she somehow figures this out. And it's a pretty good premise. It's one of those movies that makes you wonder, like, couldn't somebody do this now?

It's almost like kids too close to home. Couldn't somebody be like, I'm going to take out two justices because I want to flip some law or some rule? Okay. Could someone pull off this plot? Not could someone write the Pelican Brief? No, could someone actually do this in real life? Literally anyone could write the Pelican Brief. It feels inevitable now.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. The Supreme Court assassination plot, I mean, you know, we don't have to get into the Supreme Court right now too much, but the last five years, there's been just like this incredible chess game of strategy around, you know, elections and positioning and, yeah, when people should have retired or should they not have retired? Or, you know, I remember when Scalia died, there was like,

it was in a place that was kind of odd and people were like, is there a conspiracy correlated to his death? Like, so all of, that's what I meant earlier when I was like, all of this really still resonates. There's also been like a couple of incidents in the last couple of years of like Supreme Court justices where they like find some guy down the street from his house or like, because that, yeah, Avanol or something like that. Like there's definitely been like a heightened sort of pressure put on them. Absolutely.

Grisham had some good ideas. Yeah. Great premises. Yeah. Yeah. I was just talking about how like they stopped. making Grisham movies with Runaway jury, but he wrote like 15, 20 more books or whatever.

Yeah. And it's like, but we do 45 Marvel movies. Like we keep pumping those out, but nobody's like, you know what we got to do a newer Grisham? How come? I don't know. Also, an underrated unbelievable name creator for characters.

Mitch McDere, Darby Shaw, just like really good stuff. Like, AI couldn't spit out better combination names. You don't think AI could come up with Mitch McDeer? No. Okay. It's too good.

I think you underestimate AI. Great random. He hasn't seen Mission Impossible Dead Reckon. That's true. The FBI's Gavin Verheek. Yeah. That one was good. I was enjoyed, do you remember what Susan Serendon's character's name was in the client?

What? Reggie Love. Oh, that's right. It's incredible stuff. He was the goat. This movie cast includes... He's a lot, by the way. Yeah, he is.

This movie cast includes... The future president, Tony Goldman. Yeah. Yeah. Robert Culp is the president. Can't wait to talk about him later. Our guy, Tucci, as Kamel, the assassin. Yeah.

When did Tucci now? Where's he ranked for you? As an actor? As an assassin. Yeah. He's been in a... Where's Kamel as your top five? Your favorites.

Tucci is very important to me. Miranda will pay me back. She always does. I mean, incredible. Wonderful. And Julie versus Julia, the Nora Ephron film. as Julia Child's husband. This is, I think this is probably the first time

that I encountered Stanley Tucci. Right? Yeah, villain Tucci. I mean, I wouldn't say that this character or how he's portrayed in the media has aged the best out of all of the things in the movie. But, you know, what are you going to do? How he's portrayed in the media in the movie?

In the movie, yeah, you know. Where's Camel from? That's the thing. They just say, the Middle Eastern terrorist. It's not great. I have a guess. Okay. Is it the Middle East of Sicily? I think he's supposed to be like French Algerian.

Okay. Okay. Okay. This starts a great Tucci run. Is this before Big Night or after? Before. Because then he's in the Caruso Nick Cage movie. He plays one of the evil cops. It could happen to you. No.

Oh, the Caruso movie. Oh, no. Kiss of Death. Kiss of Death. I'm thinking of the other Nick Cage movie. A lot of people don't know this, but Kiss of Death is going to be the last rewatching. I love that movie. 30th anniversary, we're done. It sounds like you get the call from Daniel. Time to wrap it up, BS.

I see you the kiss of death. Congratulations. This is your final episode. You have to stop making these jokes because like when you did Goodfellas, I got really stressed out. And I was like, is Bill okay? Like, what's going on? I think Daniel Eck would do Kiss of Death rewatchables with us.

I think he would do Warrior. He's a big MMA guy. Wow. Now, people know when it's almost famous and what's the other one we haven't done? Pulp fiction. Pulp fiction. Those are the last two. and be like, we might see you next week,

and then the feed just does. I think there's roughly somewhere between like 125,000 good films we could do. Yeah, fair. John Lithgow's in this movie for some reason? Hugh and Cronin?

Yep. Anthony healed, we'll get to him later. Miranda from Sex and the City. Sure is. Yeah. James Sicking? Yeah.

Hill Street Blues. And then Sam Shepard. Absolutely. Are we doing it now? We're not going to do it yet. Okay. All right.

But Sean's guy, AJP, the last movie he wrote and directed, we've done all the president's been on here. I can't believe we haven't done starting over yet because it's like the lost great Boston movie. We haven't done Presumed Dinnison yet. Really good career. Do the nerd out for like a minute. Long Island Legend, Alan J. Pakula.

started out working as a producer for Robert Mulligan who directed a bunch of movies in the 50s and 60s most memorably to kill a mockingbird and learned basically how to become a film director

and a writer and a producer and matured at the perfect time like in the early 70s when directors were empowered more and so he's responsible for basically like the signature paranoid thrillers of that era clout and the parallax view

and all the president's men are considered like the Trinity obviously like three days of the Condor the conversation are also in that conversation too. But kind of like the world's greatest craftsman. Great taste in collaborators. Chris mentioned Gordon Willis earlier, who shot a lot of his movies, really good with movie stars too, really good at putting movie stars in exciting positions and thrilling movies. They say it about Chris, too. It's true. All about shadow, all about tension, all about good pace. So just a truly great filmmaker. Kind of similar career trajectory

somewhat to Cindy Pollock, who directed Three Days of the Condor, where they transitioned from like the 70s kind of very paranoid conspiracy-minded thrillers into like the more like big screen big like huge Hollywood star 80s stuff and into the 90s yeah does he have a movie where he wears suspenders and stands over yeah i'll share that with you offline okay thanks pox like hold my beer yeah this is uh i'm gonna say a little meandering this movie yeah yeah yeah i think the 1970s Alan Jay would have made some cuts. I wonder whether or not that has a little bit to do with Grisham's hold on like the American reading public and the potential of them being like, you know, the audience for these movies is like this guy like these books were being read by like one out of every three people in the country.

Yeah. And you have to imagine that the investment they would have that they were like, okay, I want all the stuff from the book and the movie. and they're pretty plot-based. They're pretty propulsive. But the firm's really long, too. You know, like, I think a lot of his, the adaptations of his books are not 90 minutes long. We talked about it when we did the firm podcast and me being disappointed when I went to the theater for that because the book was so good. But it was just because I had read the book and I knew what was going to happen.

And it almost like it took a couple years. Right. This one's different. I don't think it's as rewatchable as the firm is, but I think it's fascinating for all these different reasons that make. makes it fun to rewatch. Now, like, the firm has, like, just, like, the Brimley part. Yeah. All the stuff that we hit and the music's really good and it's really it. And Hackman, just, like, this really crazy Hackman performance.

Right. And then Cruz at the height of Cruz. It's more, it's more, the firm is more fun. Totally. This is kind of a sad and an elusive movie, you know? It's like his, his, her, the man he's, she's infatuated with dies early on in the film. And also, we don't really know. who the bad guy is ultimately in this movie.

And then even when we find out, we're kind of like, okay, like it's not actually that exciting. I had that in nitpicks. Would we be better off knowing that guy in the movie? If Matisse is in the movie. Matisse has like three scenes. It's odd. I think it's cool because you get so much Oval Office stuff

to have the president be the avatar of the evil plot. Yeah. But you could make the argument that Matisse would have been a more effective, like, heavy in the movie. Yeah. $45 million budget, made $193. That's right. Pretty good.

That doesn't quite qualify for that made. How much money? I actually thought it was going to make more. Yeah. Ebert, three stars. He wrote, It's an old law of the movies that ordinary novels are easier to film than great ones because the director doesn't have to worry about the writer's message and style, if any.

The Pelican Brief is a good illustration of that principle by casting attractive stars in the leads, by finding the right visual look, by underlining the action with brooding ominously sad music, a good director can create the illusion of meaning even when nothing's there. Ebert, not a huge Grisham guy.

Yeah, no. Not a lot of plot for him. But that's the thing. These movies are really, the books are really plotty. And so it feels like all of the adaptations of the books are long because they're trying to just get

all of the beats of the story into the movie. But in this one, it feels like from minute like 85 to 122, you're like, why are we taking so long? Get on with it.

The long passage where they're trying to figure out who Curtis Morgan is is interminable. But yeah. It's almost like that happens too late in the movie because you're like, this can't possibly be the climax of the film. Right. And yet, it sounds like we're downing the movie,

but we all really like it. It's fun. It's just makes some weird choices. It's kind of, it's serving this great dinner, but then you're like, Wait a second. Why do we have sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes? That's weird.

Right. It's just like four of those choices. It's a great metaphor. So many pies. Yeah. Why didn't we just pick two pies? Why do we have seven? But also you like all the pies.

Yeah, it's like, all right, I'll try the pies. I think a lot of it is like 70s karaoke, right? And it like reminds you of all the president of Washington Post. Exactly. It's like Lithgowza and I because he wants like an Oscar for playing Ben Bradley part two. Like we all know. It's not, it's obviously not as good. but I still like it.

I left a lot of meat on the bone. Let's take a break and we'll do most rewatchable scene. If you thought HBO's euphoria was intense in high school, saddle up. Season three of Euphoria picks up five years later and life looks very different. Hello, Rue. You owe me money. No matter what they're chasing, money, love, or redemption, no one can escape their fate. The problem is, if you make a deal with the devil, there's no turning back.

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involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. First rewatchable scene, we get the two judge murders, which happened at a nursing home and a gay movie theater. Yes. And this is, we're in peak gay movie theater as a plot device because we also have it in Philadelphia the same month. Is that a nursing home?

Or is that his home? I think that's his home with a live-in nurse. Yeah. Oh, I get, you're right. I guess it's a very nice George on home. That'd be pretty funny if a Supreme Court judge was just also at a nursing home. Yeah.

nursing home is the wrong. I gotta get back for dinner so we wrap off this appeal. Yeah. Smack and cheese tonight. Tucci said behind

the guy's great though in the theater. Yeah. Good stuff. He's got the popcorn and then you see a rope you're like, oh, this isn't gonna go away.

Should we start talking? Can we talk about his, out, his costumes as we go? We're not there yet. Okay. Oh, okay. You're like the

Pacula of directing this pot. It's all that light and shadow. Julia pieceding together the Pelican brief. I studied it print out of the Supreme Court docket I even made a list of possible suspects. And then threw it in the garbage because they'd be obvious to ever... And then you look for areas that Jensen and Rosenberg might have in common?

Exactly. Jensen was generally consistent in his protection of the rights of criminal defendants. Some notable exceptions. He's written three majority opinions, strongly protective in the environment, and he was near perfect in his support of tax protesters. Ah, so you think they might have been assassinated by some insatiable tax collector? Well, as yet I rule no one out. Everyone is assuming that the motive is hatred or revenge.

We're an attempt to influence the social agenda of the court. What if the issue involved old-fashioned material greed? A case that involves a great deal of money. I have is the next one. She throws the theory at Sam. Yeah. Her boyfriend, Sam Shepard, her professor. Yes.

Hold that one. Does a little library research. Can I see Julie in a library? Yeah. Can I take out of that? One of my who create fantasies. We will Julius get into a library. Julia Roberts asking to see publicly available information.

So good. Yeah. Next one, Sam's car blows up right after he says, Michelle, you take my breath away. Which I have for best quote of this movie. And then Julia does a... Yeah. You look just like her just now.

Thank you. I have John Hurd gets killed right into Tucci trying to kill Darby. And a great shot Gordo nominee, Chris, for most cinematic shot, the camera staying on the mirror on the hotel closet. And then the closet slightly moves. As Camel comes in. Yeah. Good stuff. You also enjoy the shot right after that where John Hurd admires his torso in the mirror, right?

I just, I actually, the wallpaper in my bedroom is just Stanley Tucci with a popcorn box over his crotch. John Hurd's really kind of cooking in that scene. Oh, yeah. This is also a great time for John Hurd coming in for five minutes of a movie and being really in the line of fire as the model playing the model car guy. Great John Hurd run here. Julia meets Denzo. In NYC. Yeah.

You must think I'm crazy. Yes, I did. Until I checked New Orleans. Callahan was killed exactly as you said. I also checked on Verheek, according to the FBI. They found his body. The day before yesterday in a hotel room very early in the morning. They said he'd been dead for at least eight hours.

That can't be. You want to talk about the brief? Everyone I've told about the brief is dead. I don't take my chances. Powerful stuff. How do we feel about Julie's acting in the middle part of this movie? When she's just really quiet and scared. I would like to adjust her.

Want to save that? We don't have to save it. No, we're ready to comment when you guys need it. It's a great usage of, you know, when she's in there, she gets back to the first hotel room and has to, like, a dress, her 90s wrapped dress with the buttons

and it's shaking. It's a great period detail. I have the Lithgow Denzel reunion. From Ricochet, yeah. Yes.

They're back, baby. Okay. First time they meet it's like, oh, in the last time I saw you guys together, you were intentionally giving him VD

and trying to murder him. Now you guys are collaborating. This is kind of the editor-writer version of giving you VD, though. Their relationship is fucking

stupid. It's brutal. But we also get a, a Pakula Washington Post newsroom reunion even though it's not the Washington Post, but it is. Get him back there. At four more,

Goldman tells the president in the limo that the Pelican Preve won't die. That's good. And does the Mr. President? You don't want to know. Oh, yeah. When anybody works for the president says that. Darby goes to get the security deposit box with the parking garage chase.

The president finds out Goldman in the camera room. It's like a weirdly good shot because you think he's like going to kill himself, but he doesn't. He's just watching. And then the farewell hug with. the Denzel interview with a little Edmund, Edmund. Yeah. Gray, the ripple effects of your story just don't seem to stop.

As of this broadcast, Victor Matisse, one of the richest men in the country, has been indicted, along with four of his aides and lawyers. Fletcher Cole, President's Chief of Staff, has resigned. And we're getting strong indications that the President himself will not even run again. Well, that's what we do know. Let's get to what we don't. We know that the Pelican brief was written by a woman named Darby Shaw, but we don't know who that is. Who is Darby Shaw?

I think that's a question for Darby Shaw. All right, that leads me to my second question. Speaking for thousands of our colleagues who are in a feeding frenzy to interview her, where is Darby Shaw? I think that also is a question for Darby Shaw, but I know that she's not available to answer questions as long as this feeding frenzy continues. continues. Does that mean you don't know where she is? I didn't say that. Then you do know. Anything else? What I miss?

I like to sit down with boils at the end when it's just like, and it's Julia and Denzel across the table just because it's like that to me is the most victorious moment of the whole thing. So you're the little lady who started this whole brouh. Yeah, exactly. I feel like that's not the first time that line was said in a movie. It's a deep Abe Lincoln cut. Yeah. That's what he said to Harry Beecher Stowe. Yeah. Right.

What do you have for most Rwatchable, CR? I like the Riverwalk assassination and the whole thing with him pulling out the gun. And this is also something that you could nitpick, but I thought it was a great crowd scene.

I love everybody scattering once the body hits the floor. Yeah. I like John Hurd and that combo. I think that's my favorite. And since you're kind of in the dark about her being protected at that point, it's really like what the hell is going on?

Like, who killed him, you know? And you're in the dark, even if you've seen the movie five times, but we'll get to that later. What's your favorite, Sean? I think the most 90 scene in the movie is the one I enjoy the most, which is when she's in class

and being taught by Sam Shepard. And he's like pitching questions to the class and their answer. I think that seems really fun. Now she's just like, you're triggering me. Definitely. Why are you sickling me out? Why don't we just burn this book?

What do you have? Can I do all this? a Sam Shepard scenes together as a group? You can, because that takes us right into what's age the best. Yeah. Sam Shepard, just be in more movies. Yeah. What were you doing?

He works pretty steadily. Yeah. He was funding his thriving play. I get it. He was one of the great playwrights. I get it. Just sneak some more movies in there, Sam. Do you think that is this Amanda Dobbins' smoke show over the week?

Is Sam Shepard? Absolutely. It's so. Am I allowed to do this now? Yeah, we can do it. That's fine. No, we don't. No, it's fine.

We can do it. So this plus baby boom just operates like a really specific late 80s, early 90s, like ideal. Like this is the true American man. You guys can have your cowboys and I have Sam Shepard just kind of not in a big city. Just alone. He's seen some things. Yeah. He's lived some life.

He's little weathered, incredibly handsome and only has eyes for me. It's very special. My wife felt exactly the same. All women love Sam Shepard. I think that's one of the rules in life. And I had this later for unanswerable questions, but he really probably could have been one of the biggest stars in the world.

Like, he could have been Brad Pitt if he's just like, I'm going to act. I mean, but he was an avant-garde artist. I get it. You know, like he was- Also, eclectic taste in the ladies. Patty Smith. Joni Mitchell.

Jessica Lang. He's just going for a long time. Ever. Pretty complicated guy. Seems like. A very tortured person. Yeah. An incredible artist.

Like a great actor, one of the great heads of hair in the last hundred years. Yeah. But I mean, you can, you can like hand wave the playwriting, but I mean, they were like five of the signature American plays, you know. Just talking about him as a dad. And he ruled parisexas, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's turned out great for him.

Yeah. But there's a other path. A lot of demons. And I think that probably helped probably help. probably prevented him from being like a classical leading man. Yeah, it's like when you watch the right stuff and you're watching him, you're like exactly what you're thinking. Like, how is this guy not like the biggest movie star in the world after watching and play Chuck Yeager?

You know who's psyched that he decided to write plays? Tom Hanks, Kevin Costner, all the people that he would have been competing against for roles in the late 80s, early 90s. He couldn't have been in Sleeper since Seattle. Yeah, but. Same Shepherd is the widow in Sleeper's in Seattle. Wow. he could do it. It would be a darker movie. Because to Sean's point,

there are demons, and that's part of the appeal. You think you'll be the one to fix it. But he would be wonderful and sleepless in Seattle. You trying to fix Sam Shepard after Jessica Lange could not. It's a movie I would watch. I can fix him.

Being a woman is hard. These are the goals we set for ourselves, you know? I admire you. Thank you. So much. What's your favorite Sam Shepard movie? Red stuff?

I think that's his cool. coolest part. Yeah. I think he did a good job at the latter stages of his career of playing the kind of grizzle.

Like he's really good in mud. Yeah. You know that movie the Yeah. He's awesome in mud. You know,

like he's in a lot of good movies like that too. But I think that's, I mean, that's like your favorite, right? Chuck Hager. Chuck and Days of Heaven. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's good too. Days of Heaven rewatchables coming soon? Probably not. What stage the best? What stage the best? What stage the best?

A fucking BS favorite. Do you think that Kamal came knew he was going to get the guy in a gay movie theater, a gay porn movie theater, and had an outfit planned for that? Or was that...

Where did he put his gun? We didn't have a gun. What are you talking about when he comes up? Well, I'm sure he'd get a gun on the United States. That probably isn't a problem. The first murder, then he's a jogger, so he must have dumped the gun. Yeah, he dumps the gun. But when he gets

the other justice in the theater, it's just such a great, like, I'm going to the, I'm going to a porn movie outfit. And I just wondered whether or not that was something he planned in advance or something that he just, you know, he improvised on the scene. Well, it seems like he doesn't learn about his targets until he takes the motor, you know, the voter boat in and arrives at the hotel and gets the picture with just the two circles. What age the best for me is the whole looking for Mr. Sneller routine, which is how I'm going

to start communicating with Sean, where I just slip an envelope under his door. That's fine. Let's do that for 2024. Wait, but here's my other Tucci question. And Tucci apparel question. Yeah. So he's wearing the toupee. Yeah.

When he's jogging. Right. For when he kills Rosenberg. He good adhesive tape for that. Right. But then he removes it for the gay club. Yeah. But then it's back when he goes to Dulles.

And it appears to be the same toupee. To put it as pants? So, like, I mean, just what's the storage situation? Yeah, what's the plan? Don't know. Or maybe at my mom. multiple toupee. Sean,

you can have one of these three jogging Tucci, hotel businessman Tucci or gay movie theater Tucci just as a look for like six months. What about?

Can I also throw in Dad bod Tucci when he gets assassinated? Yeah, or dad bod Tucci. I don't want the ladder because I'm a little close to that right now.

I think jogging. You know, the spirited night jog. Movie theory. You don't have to look at me. Sneaky ripped. Tucci. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's great. Also disguises for what stage is the best. Julia, she breaks out the pigtails and the sunglasses,

super cute. She breaks out the pretty woman wig from the 20-minute mark. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't overlook the Nix hat, for Christ. She brings out the Nix hat. One of the most iconic hats. I like when Julie's on the run

and wearing disguises. And she's reppping for Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley. The Riverwalk, the pigtails, and that, like, could be like any Instagram ad that is so on trend right now Oh my god my daughter's literally worn

The fanny pack Yeah yeah yeah And the fanny pack and the thick pigtails are in The button oversized button down Button up to the collar It's really good yeah I mean her number one look of all time Was the brown dress and the polo scene

Yes of course Which might be the best anyone's ever looked In the history of mankind But the pig tails are strong The whole all of the looks are back Which it just happens when you do a 90s movie Yeah What's age the best?

professors having affairs of their students. Oh, wait, no. But great Shepard Julia chemistry in this. It's also acknowledged by Verheek that Callahan does this quite a bit. He's like, how old is she this time? I love when they work that into a movie.

Another leading lady here, huh? Very mature. Yeah. More what's age of best. Tony Goldman playing a scumbag. Yeah. Really good. He always gave great scumbag.

I mean, ghost, nobody's better as a scumbag. Newspapers? And age the best? And the worst, but age the best. Okay. Just the newspapers are cool. Fun to have a movie centered around newspapers. It's the best.

Newspapers, yes. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite genres. We had a couple around this time. It was in the paper right around here, right? Yeah. What do you got, C.R.

I like, I think what's age the best is having a secret room where you film your boss. Dun-d-d-d-d-da-don The hell I think New Orleans as a filming location Yeah It's just awesome And that's why you're here

Telling the cab that you jump in To follow another cab Oh god damn That's a fucking awesome I want to do that But it's just all Rideshare now But it wouldn't be great if you and I

Just one day Like you get in a cab at the Omni hotel And I'm like Follow that cab Yeah What is a person of time in real life that the other cab would actually follow the cab.

We can't know until we try. I feel like it's maybe 20%. Right. I think if you're like, there's another hundred in this for you if we... Yeah, you gotta Brad the guy. Yeah. Let's all go to LAX together.

We'll all get four separate cabs and we'll try to chase each other around. What do you think? That's fine. It probably works better in New York City, but I'm down for the... That would actually be good YouTube content for the rewatchables

is to see if anybody would be like, yeah, absolutely. I'll follow that cab. Okay. More would say it's the best. Die in a fiery crash. If the White House looked familiar, that's because it was.

They used it in Dave. One of the great movies of all time. Incredible. Darby Shaw and Greg Grantham, I wrote, Jack Horner voice. Those are great names. And then Roger Ebert,

drive-by shooting of John Grisham. He writes, in that review, John Grisham, current king of bestseller's list, bestseller list, is also taken seriously in some quarters. But I'm not sure why. His plots are no better or worse than average, and his characters are at their service. His novels exist to be filmed.

His next, for example, has been sold to the movies before being written. Ebert. Well, didn't he write this for Julia? Like, he wrote Darby thinking of Julia Roberts. That's what he said. Yeah, that is what he said. Although that's convenient that they make the film star, Julia Roberts. Anything else for you?

What's the best? I like the hallowed director's late career comeback because Pekula was like down in the 80s. Like I would be surprised. It's like Sophie's Choice and then three movies I haven't heard of. You've never heard of. Like orphans and rollover and all these movies that nobody's seen. He did a dream lover. Dream lover.

And then... Even I didn't like dream lover. Like a bad out of hell presumed innocent this, the devil's own consenting adults for movies that people are like, I'll go see that movie. and, you know, he was like in his 60s, 70s, and made a great comeback. And I'm reminded everybody what a great filmmaker was. You guys always do the, like, director who's been the best director working in each decade, you know, and, like, whether somebody can have multiple decades. But you can make the argument that he's the best thrillers director in the 70s and the 90s.

You could make the argument. I would take Tony Scott over him in the 90s, probably. But, yeah. I mean, there's a case. Anything for what stage the best? self-publishing conspiracy theorists. Oh. Yeah.

That's a good one. Yeah, I mean. Also, jogging. I mean, like, you know, Tushy looks obviously complicated, but it's a great outfit, as Sean mentioned. Denzel's jogging also. I guess those short jogging shorts. Men wearing shorter shorts. There we go.

I got to it. It's back. It is back, but I think everyone should ever listening. Cooper Flagg, very short shorts. Should investigate. I have a hot Denzel take I was going to do later. Okay. Not a great jogger in movies.

Okay. Good athlete. He seems like he wants to show us that he knows how to jog. He does like a very front of the feet kind of high hop run. This is, yeah. And it's not, keep going. It's not cool. But do you think he's like sending subliminals at Cruz like this is how you run?

He runs to me like a guy with bad knees. I think he runs like a guy who isn't planning on running for very long. He just is running for as long as the take is. But I think he jogs in this. I think he jogs in Crimson Tide. I don't like his jogging. He jogs on the. submarine?

Bad jogger. Don't they jog on the submarine to get exercise and stuff? You would know better than I. I'm pretty sure he jogging in that movie. He's going to remember the Titans?

He might jogging there you. On a scale of one to Robert Patrick and Terminator 2. Robert Patrick is like a 3.5. He's the best runner of all times. That's running. Yeah.

He's the best. It's him and when you watch those old clips of sprinters from like the 1920s and 30s. But Robert Patrick has this, right? He has like the hands. He's also made of liquid in that. I was watching Terminator 2

two weeks ago. He's chasing a car that's going like 35 miles an hour. It's completely believable. Yeah, I totally believe it. Yeah. So what age the worst is Denzel's jogging? No, I just, I don't like his jogging.

Okay, all right. I love Denzel. One of my favorite actors of all time. I'm just not a great jogger. Pretty good jump shot. Good athlete. Good movie athlete. Kid Cuddy Pursuit a Happiness Award for Best Needle Trap. Doesn't really exist in this movie.

Big Cahooner Award for Best use of food drink. Kamal's popcorn. Oh, yeah. Great. I was, I was going to say, yeah, I was going to say the chocolate that he eats. Oh, that's good. Killing. Yeah.

John Hurd. That's right. I like it. Denna Thieves, Benny Hoddon, where it seems still in location, New Orleans. Yeah. I was going to riverwalk or on the podium, Mount Vernon. Which I've never actually been to. I've been, quite beautiful.

It's been kind of a, it's more of like a theme park now that it appears to be in the film. There's a lot of stuff going on at Mount Vernon these days. Do you think Riscilla's been to Mount Vernon? He must have, right? It's probably his Christmas vacation. Ten days of Mount Vernon, solo. I'll listen to every minute. Went to Mount Vernon.

A lot of people say don't go there for vacation, I did. Run time, two and a half of hours. People say, not a great place to go out, but I beg to differ. They've got a kids club. Then a guy at the pool. We talked about Washington. Big B.C.S. guy.

The Vincent Chase Award for Are we sure this character was actually good at his job? It has to be Tony Goldman as the chief of staff, right? So what's your plan to swing the Supreme Court? We're going to actually kill two of them, and don't worry, it's not going to come back to the honor. But he doesn't do it. But he knows about it.

I think he's aware of it, right? After the fact? You're squashing that thing immediately if you're anywhere close to the president. What do you have, Sean? Well, we're just like veering into the structural issues of the movie. This is a deeply flawed story.

Like, no one in the movie, except for Gray, is good at their job. Yeah. There's not a single... Now, Darby doesn't have a job. Darby's trying to solve a conspiracy, but that's on her job.

Right. But every other person, the director of the FBI, the CIA guy, the Gavin Verheek, Fletcher Cole, the president of the... United States.

These people are incompetent. Gray's editor. John Lithgow. These people are terrible at their jobs. And they're in the seats of power. Can you imagine if working at like a major company that was like that? No idea what you're referring to. I think they'd also argue, like, is Gray Grantham that good at his job?

It's debatable. It's debatable. It's debatable. And it's like probably someone out of the millions of people of lives should investigate who killed two Supreme Court justices. No one else seems to care. Right. There's, like, no other coverage.

John Lithgow's like, why don't you get down there, like, everyone else to cover the primary? And it's like, well, sir, because two Supreme Court justices were assassinated. What are you talking about? Yeah. If two Supreme Court justes were murdered in America, this would be the story of the century. I don't know. I think one of the things that's aged the worst is our capacity to be scandalized. I don't know that that would be that would be that big.

But at least. In 1993, people stormed the Capitol on for the rat certification of election. Sure, but they've been covering it. Morning show. At the morning show. Bradley Jackson's brother. I don't know. I don't know.

I disagree. Like when you think about the Clinton affair, which is something that happens like proximate to this, everything that was made out of that, everything that was made out of OJ, it was like no one knew who Nicole Brown

and Simpson was, and that was the biggest story in America for two years. If this happened, the idea that John Lithgow's character would be like, you need to get down to Arkansas to see what's going on with this new candidate.

You don't have it. Exactly. It's insane. You work at the Washington Herald. Also, Julia Roberts, aka Darby Shaw, is the only person trying to figure out. Who thought of this? Yeah, and it's just like, oh, I've got it. So this gets into a fundamental thing.

I was reading about the movie online. There's a, from a long time ago on a site called Alternateending.com, this guy, Tim Brayton wrote a pretty good piece that articulated kind of always this thing that was in my head about this movie, where he lays out how this is different than all the president's met. And in this movie, and this kind of gets to your point, is Darby is smarter than the audience. we don't find out what the conspiracy is until midway, two-thirds through the movie where you find out about the pelicans

and the marshes and the court and all that stuff. But for the movie, the entire movie, she's running around knowing what is happening. I mean, she must know it's Matisse. The second Callahan dies, she's like, I am now in the center of a vast, violent conspiracy. But the audience never is allowed to catch up to that

until the midway point where then the audience becomes much smarter than Darby and Gray because we know the president and Fletcher are coming after them and that all these people are like amassing against them. So you never actually have that thing where you're going step by step with Woodward and Bernstein

you're like, I know how this ends, but it's really fascinating to watch these guys uncover these things step by step. It's like they're already on step L and we're on step A, and it doesn't quite work the same way as all the president's men is. I wonder if that's just because one is a true story

that we experienced and the other is completely prevented. But you could have done this story where the movie is her putting together the theory. Yeah. Like her, it's her step by step in the library, essentially, uncovering the truth about this. And instead, it's like, that has to be the thing that catapults are into the conspiracy. The Butch's girlfriend award for Weak Link of the film, which somehow isn't everything Chris just laid out. I think that it's represented in Gavin Verheek.

Tucci dies, his assassin character, and we have no idea who killed him or why. And then they kind of throw it in in the ending. It's like, the way you do it. Yeah, yeah. And she's like, who killed Camel? I was like, oh, that was actually that other guy who stayed falling in. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen this movie like five times. I still don't totally understand it. I don't either. I mean, I'm saving it for a different category. But yeah, I agree.

Well, let's do it now. Okay. It's the weak link of the film. Yeah. I just, like, him getting killed, it just makes no sense because you feel like it's leading to something. then it leads to nothing for an hour. And I don't get it. We build up, Kamel, we build them up, build them up,

get shot. We don't know who did it or why. And then we don't find out. The way that they film it also looks like maybe he accidentally shot himself through the pillow. It is confusing. It did like the Plexical Burris. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I got that. What stage is. You got that? I did. Yeah. Listen. You know?

Everybody sleeps on you. What's age the worst? Why is this movie 141 minutes? It's three minutes longer than all the president's men. Yeah, that's tough. 141 minutes. Yeah. There's a lot of time spent being worried that Nicholas Woodison, who plays Stump,

the kind of like follow-up assassin, is going to kill them. And just a lot of shots of him, like, looking and making sure that they're nearby. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Just feel like there's some wasted time. Yes. Robert Kopp as the president, how are we feeling about that casting?

Very believable to me. I enjoy it. Yeah? Yeah. He's doing he's doing Reagan if he was Clinton. At the time, like, I remember in the early 90s, like, that was probably, like, what I

thought the president was like, you know, just, like, kind of a glad-handed. Couldn't have gotten a whiff-hire? Not like now. Not at all like now. With-hire? For an actor? Like, a better actor? Yeah.

Well, isn't the point that he's supposed to be pretty goofy? We're doing a Grisha movie. Can Robert Redford be the president as, like, evil Robert Redford? Can we... What is it? I'm just saying somebody like super famous. It's like a, it's a, like.

Evil Paul Newman. Okay. I guess evil Paul Newman, that would be fine. I just don't know what you have against Robert Redford. Let's go. A plus Lister. Okay. I'm just trying to think of A plus listers. Nicholson.

I think there's something clever about a guy who's best known as a TV actor, kind of a B-tier actor playing the president because Ronald Reagan was the president. You know, like that's a B-tier actor. I get it. He feels like a TV actor. The Ron Burgundy Flew Award for Best Time for a P-Break also works in a which age of worst. This movie can start eight minutes later and we're fine. The opening credits is three minutes of just pelicans flying around

in slow motion with credits of everyone in the movie. Then there's another four minutes. Nothing happens. The Pelican part of the brief. Yeah. It's like we get it. There's Pelicans. And then Tucci gets an envelope under the whole. We're at minute eight. And he's like, oh, here's the envelope. It's like, cool. Start the movie that way. I think they have to do some stuff to get Gray in the movie in the first 40 minutes because he really shouldn't necessarily be in it until

Darby calls. But you have to set up the whole car seat. Who's Greg Grantham's real-life comp right now? Mags? Adrian Wajarasky. Maggie Haberman, you think? Adrian Wurgeoner. Kevin O'Ne of the Greybone!

Julian Denzel do not appear on screen together until the 68-minute mark of the movie. Yeah. I think that's cool. I want to start standing up for this movie because I do enjoy it a lot. I think that that is cool to feel like the middle of the movie is the most momentous part. And we're waiting and waiting and waiting for them to come together.

Any other would say Zores? Your computer's gone. So are your floppy disks and your red expandable files. Which is just, you know, what a time. Floppy disks. I still have expandable files in my home. Do you really? What's in them?

Documents. Critical briefs about the future of this country. I have porn theaters. Yeah. They don't have them anymore. There's just an article in Illinois Times about the last porn theater in Los Angeles. There's one left.

What's it called? The Tiki. Should we do a live live pod? Live rewatchables there? What do we do? Cruising again? The re-cruise. Do what other,

we could do hardcore with George C. Scott? I'm in. I'm fully in. That would be iconic if we did that. It's you buy at the one porn theater left.

It's a six-hour ticket. You can come in and have a theater. It's like an NCAA tournament game. You can come and go. Can we get to see Michigan and Arizona. Well, why do they want you to come and go? Well, you know why.

I don't mean to be sinister. But I'm guessing you leave. So I have a question about this scene and the general etiquette at porn theaters. Yeah. Because. Direct that question right to Chris. Yeah. Camel sits like really close to the Supreme Court justice.

And we get a wide shot so we can see that everybody else is like spaced out. There seem to be some unwritten. rules. And it's just like, wouldn't someone sitting that close to you raise some... I know. You don't think so? Okay. Oh, you seem very sure about that. I think the whole, the etiquette or the protocol there is the closer you get, the more it's on. Okay. All right. Yeah. Did I ever tell my porn theater story? Getting handy. Like, like while you're watching a movie. I don't think so. Have I told my porn theater story in the rewatchables? I don't think so. Which camera?

Turn the TikTok camera on, Kyle. Freshman here in college, they had this porn theater in Worcester, Massachusetts. It's where I went to college called the Adonis Theater. Yeah. And we thought it would be hilarious if we just went, went to a movie and just made jokes. Because you and roughly 35 other men? Yeah, it's like six or seven people in the hall, including the Great Jacko. Oh.

I don't think Joe House was there. He was probably playing basketball. Blue Boy? Well, Blue Boy was there. Nice. We went, sat down, made jokes, did the whole peanut gallery thing. So you guys are doing like the mystery science theater version. Yeah, we're just having a great time.

It's just us in the theater. We're like, what a great idea. You're not ruining anyone else's time. No. Okay. Are you like, look at the shlong on that guy. Like, what are you saying? We're just having a great time.

And then somebody came in and they sat down in our row in the other side and pulled their pants down. And we ran out of there, like a tsunami was coming. We were out of there in 10 seconds. Do you think that that was done to get you out of the theater or was it just like, it's Tuesday, I got to drop my pants in the movie theater. The popcorn guy was like, I got to get these fucking idiots out of here. So I'm going to go drop trial. I actually told the story wrong because there was one person in the theater who was laughing.

at some of our jokes. Oh, that's great. Come doing us. And then the pants down guy came and cleared us out. Okay. We were out. That was my one porn theater experience. Departed.

Best porn theater scenes ever. Departed's in there. Philadelphia. This movie. What else do we have? Well, hardcore. Hardcore. Hardcore.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh. Oh, Jesus. Still going. It's by George Schiske and Hardcore. I'm so glad that Amanda has to sit next to you. Do you ever see that movie?

No. Every father's worst nightmare? I think we should fly Paul Schrader in for the hardcore live rewatchables pod at the Tiki here in Los Angeles. Was this a better title for this movie? I have a couple of what's age the worst. Oh, you do?

That's fire off. Just Thomas Callahan, Mulder of Young Minds. Darby's I'm scared voice that she employs after Thomas dies which is just basically whispering about us praising egrids and pelicans and it says she talks like that for most of the rest of the movie and I just think that that's a one-note thing

and then I would also say it took them way too long to find Curtis Morgan and that whole thing at the registrar's office and then going to the rehab center and just like so you guys could find find out that that was Jake Weber. It seems a little bit far-fetched. Better title for this movie? I'm going to say no. No, this is good.

Okay. We'll take a break, come back with how to state. Okay. Well, is it better if it's just the brief in keeping with the titles of all the other John Christian films? The client. The client, the firm. Well, runaway jury and the, you know. But the thing I like about it is the way they use the Pelican brief in the movie. And it's like, hello, have you heard about the Pelican brief? Oh, here's the Pelican brief. As you know, I love them this and the title. Yeah. There's got to be a couple other, like, sketchy briefs circulating Washington.

You know what I'm saying? I'm pro-title. Taking a break, doing how to take after. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's, you can get great deals all day with McValue. Jumpstart your day with the under $3 menu featuring a sausage McMuffin for just $1.50. Or grab the perfect lunch with the McDouble for just $250. Honestly, nothing pairs with the movie Marathon.

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So if you want to experience the best parts of your performance, flex the rules. And the new glycerin flex, shop the glycerin flex at brooksrunning.com. How does take, CR? What do you got? If Victor Matisse is one of the most powerful richest businessman in the country to say nothing of the world, he can really only afford Kamel and Woodson to be his assassins. Like, it just doesn't seem like there's any safeguards on this whole situation.

It doesn't seem like there's any... So more assassins is your note. I think that they seem to be going out of their way to make it as difficult as possible to get Darby. Yes. And also, Woodison gets his ass kicked by like three New Orleans bouncers. Yeah.

So maybe it's time to like pull his card and put someone else on the job. Like Monty Williams in Detroit. That's right. You've lost 17 straight. Time for some new blood. What do you got, Sean? Julia Roberts is wildly miscast and misused in this movie.

Oh, that ties right into my hottest state. This movie is unquestionably better in 1993 with Sandra Bullock. I was thinking Jennifer. Questionably. I was thinking Jennifer Jason Lee. Like, you need a quieter actor. Like, I'm waiting the whole movie for Julia Roberts to laugh and be charismatic. That she doesn't get to be effusive.

It's only with like two Sam Shepard scenes. Yeah. Sandra Bullock is so, I mean, she does two years later in the net, which is not nearly as good or polished or many of the actors. But similar vibe. But same kind of, I'm on the run. Yeah. And she's way better at it.

Yeah. I would have believed it more. I mean, it's obviously a huge hit because of her, and it is fun seeing her with Denzel. But I want to see them in a more fun movie. I mean, I do too. It's not good acting from her. As Chris said, right around like the hour mark, she just goes into this, like, monotone voice thing for trauma.

I actually know, like, she's like, I just watched my lover explode in a car and find myself chased by, like, evil forces. I can understand why she's whispering everything. But, like, there's just, there's just so much of it. That's how she communicates. Also, you just did this in sleeping with the enemy. Yeah. Yeah. What do you have for how to take anything?

Yeah. Are we sure it wasn't the CIA? Oh. I mean, just what's up with Rupert, you know? And as you said, it's not resolved. And even the strategy, how does it? benefit Métis to kill her once the brief is out there. It's only drawing more attention to it. But if the Pelican brief and Julia Roberts and Mitees are being used as a decoy because the CIA

funded it and set it up for nefarious reasons. And then that's why Rupert's around to make sure. It does seem like a real self-inflicted wound by the Oval Office. Yeah. It's something that they could really easily dismiss. And instead they're like, no, we have to get, we have to get more. multiple law enforcement and intelligence agencies evolved. I did forget to mention this during what stage is the best, but I do feel like the pressuring the FBI to back off a case does have like that Trump-Jame Choney resonance, though. Yeah. Or like the interaction between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Oval Office is like very tenuous.

And there's not supposed to be that level of communication about open cases. Right. But then there's also in that, in the very first scene when they come to inform him. And it's this FBI director and the. CIA director. William Maytherton employs him. Yeah. And the president is immediately like, I'm asking you right now, is the CIA involved?

And he's like, I'm shocked that you would even, but then that's it. Yeah. There's nothing else. And then the CIA is just lurking around the rest of the movie. And they do stuff. Yeah. And they do stuff. And it's not explained.

I'm just putting it out there. Can I ask you a side question on this? Yeah. Are you a CIA person or an FBI person if you had to pick one? Great question. In what sense? Just are you put. They're feuding.

Who side are you? Oh, CIA? CIA. Absolutely. I think I'm pro FBI. You know why? Because CIA killed Kennedy. It's a good take.

You're CIA? Would you rather work? FBI or CIA? Yeah, definitely I think I'd rather work CIA. I think I'm really more of an FBI kind of guy on, like, in my core. But CIA is cooler. Amanda and I love to travel, so we'd like to do it. Right. International intrigue.

I think they're both pretty dangerous organizations, if I'm being honest. Especially the CIA, who can. killed out president in 1963. There's some guy at Langley listening to us right now. He's like, God damn, Sean really took my win out of my sales. They're in a sick Woodson on me. But this is also, you're supposed to think that because this is a pro-FBI movie. It is ultimately.

James B. Sicking is like kind of noble. He's like the good character. And maybe that's because the CIA did it. I'm just putting it out there. Casting what ifs. Grisham, he really wanted Julie Roberts to be Darby Shaw. I don't know how hot of a take that was in 1992 when she was the hottest female. star in the world. Yeah. For to get for a part and everybody's offering her scripts.

And his favorite baseball player was Ken Griffey Jr. Yeah. But the reality of Grisham at that time is he's like, I'm writing these books and instantly the biggest movie stars want to make them. Yeah. This is always my favorite in the cat. This is Julia-related when she decided she's going to do the part. She

spent some time at Tulane Law School to prepare for her role and attended a couple classes. Denzel went to the post. Denzel was at Washington Post. Denzel did that as well. Can you imagine if you were just like 92 you're working at the Washington Post and then Denzel Washington walks in. You think he was hanging out at Kornheiser?

What was he? Probably was. The Ruffalo-Hanna-Rubin and Perchage overacting award. They knew and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady. I come in here. I give these things to you.

Give it all you got. Give it all you got. I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart. Fuck you. So I'm going to zag on this for the first time in like 317 movies. movies. I have the Julia

Denzel Pelican Brief underacting award for underacting. For Julia and Denzel? Have we had an underacting award before? For both of them? I think they're both kind of underplaying it. Except for the car bomb scene. Right. And when she, and she kind of gets two

takes to do like first her shaking reaction and then her screaming reaction, you know? She's great. It's one of her best Julia. She has like a convulsion basically. But yeah, she's underacted most of it. Best that guy word, Anthony Hill's in this movie, so it's a wrap. He just automatically wins.

No other contenders. I would say Sicking is up there for that guy, though. Yeah, but Hill Street Blues was 20 million people. I think Atherton is on the list, too. Yeah, that's true. I know he was going to be a star in the 70s, but never really got there, so. That's fair. Jake Weber, too.

Yeah. He's a that guy. Oh, yeah. Deanne Waiters Award. Lithgow versus Tucci versus Shepard. Shepard counts qualifies, so he's got to win, I think. Absolutely. You guys don't think it's Tucci?

For Deon Waiters? I think it's definitely Tucci. It's Tucci. Shepard's really great. Shepard's in a lot of this movie, though, too. No, he's in four scenes. He leaves an indelible mark. Of course, that is the definition of Dionne Waiters.

I understand it, right? Recasting Couch, two thousand, twenty-two-two-two-tenthirty version, Zendea, and who? This is now becoming the Tom Holland and Zendaya category. You think Tom Holland is Greg Grantham? No, he's too young. It's got to be somebody a little over. What if you gender swap it and you do Zendaya is the reporter and Tom Holland is the aspiring law school kid? Wow.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. That's basically like don't worry, darling, but I would still watch it, you know? It's okay. Don't worry, darling, but I would still watch it. Who's in the Denzel kind of zone right now? Jillyn Hall.

Jill and Halea, something like that. Well, I mean, but then that's like Zodiac. Driver? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, driver. Driver's a little older, though. Denzel was a little older.

Denzel was 38. Driver. Driver was great. Did you see Driver's S&L skits? He did well. I thought he did solid. Yeah, he was a couple. Did you watch anything?

No, I didn't see him. What was that Adam Driver movie? The report. Yes. He was pretty good in it. CIA, yeah, he has to solve some stuff. Does he have principles in that in the end? I can't remember.

I'm about Zendaya and Pete Davidson. No. Pete Davidson is great great anthem. Straight doing drama. Yeah. You won't believe him as the Washington Post report. Definitely. Absolutely. But we could be. Yeah, there you go.

We could also recast Tony Goldman as the president. Ooh. Because he had a experience. That's always fun when that happens. Half a Center Research, Julia won best actress in 2000 and then the next year presented

Denzel, his best actor. Just the karma of the whole thing. She was so excited. Do you remember that? Yeah. Yeah. And then I somehow forgot this, how Pekula died tragically, which I... The worst possible way to die

on the highway where the pipe, somebody gets a pipe, and it went through his windshield and killed him. But he... I was thought he retired. I forgot that he died. I probably had like five, six more years of movies. I forgot all about this until...

It's very sad. There's a good documentary that you can get on Amazon called Alan Pekula going for truth where basically every big movie star who appeared in one of his movies talks about what a genius he was. So just for that,

where it's like Redford, Harrison, Ford, Julia Roberts, everyone sat for it. And if you want to learn more about his career, it's really good. Even Goldman loved him. I think Goldman was a pretty straight shooter on who he worked with. He was like, that guy was fucking amazing. Apex Mountain. Tulane?

I mean, does Tulane have like a bowl game that I don't know about? The John Hot Rod Williams gambling scandal in the early 80s? Honestly, like, prove me wrong. I like it. How about Grisham? Pellonbury he's selling ideas as movies that he hasn't written yet.

Conspiracy movies? No. No. How about the saying goodbye off the plane reconsider, run back for the second hug? Still the bodyguard.

Still the bodyguard. Edmund Newman? Yeah. He did host SNL once. Do you think that was a bigger bigger like audience share than this? Hosted SNL did sketches with Eddie Murphy when Eddie Murphy was the biggest star in the world.

Okay. Denzel Washington, is this filled up in the same month, but I'm still going to say no. I think it's trained. I think it's, too. Yeah, I think he's at that point a major box office draw. He's not quite a huge box office draw at this point by himself. Julia is still pretty woman. Yeah.

She could have made any movie she wanted for the next five years after that. I think that's true. Also Notting Hill into Aaron Brockovich and winning to Oscar. And this has adult movie theaters until Nicholson waves the dildo. What about John Hurd? I would have said big.

It's huge and big. I probably say home alone. It's home alone. Are we going to do this again? It's that time of year. Yeah, home alone is. Yeah. It's probably home alone.

To me, he's Kevin's dad. Yeah. To me, he's a bartender in after hours. Last night during the football game, Mike Torrico and Collinsworth were talking about Home Alone. They had a... Yeah. ...was like, you like Home Alone, right? And he's like, and Torrico goes, I watch it every year.

And I'm like, there's just no way Mike Tarrico watches Home Alone every year. He's like, oh, it's December 15th time to crank up Home Alone? You don't think? Torquist on the road Bengals games? There's no way. But it's Jake Browning instead of pro? Does Mike Turico watch Home Alone every year? Does he have children?

I have no idea. I don't have children. I watch Home Alone a lot. Every year? You watch it. You and Mike. You should watch it with Mike. Me and Torrico.

I just don't believe it. It seems so like, yeah, I watched it every year. It's like, all right, I would have loved to have been like, all right, first hour. Yeah. After the family's away and, like, just ask them. Would you let me and Tarrico do a re-home alone? But I do it as Collinsworth. Oh, Mike, this kid's got ingenuity.

Craig plays the crib and it comes back and you. Oh, Colkin. He's just having fun out there. Look at Culkin. This kid's got a great future. Pickin'its. There's probably better protection for Supreme Court justices. I know they self-referentially say it in the movie, but you just walk into the old

guy's, you know, apartment and just shoot him. He's got one caretaker. How does he get in? Because the establishing shot is the... like, I guess the FBI agents, they're not Secret Service agents, like, changing shifts. Yes. And you see, like, the nursing aid, like, wave from the window. I think he's supposed to be, like, in the book, he is the world's greatest assassin.

Right. So I think he's able to, like, maybe scale the wall or, you know, cat burglar style. Okay, that's my, that was my take, yeah. Okay. Great Grantham goes away to his cabin, and then Darby just calls the newspaper and pretends it's his sister, and they're like, here's the address. Meanwhile, it's a major investigation. And then she can find it without GPS.

Yeah. No editor has ever been to their writer. Like, why did you just go away and think about it for a while? This is my biggest problem with this movie. It's just like you're on this. How editors act? The Lithgow character. I just don't understand what the fuck that guy's talking about.

He's like, let's not focus our energy and time on the biggest story in the history of American politics. Let's do something else. I can't afford to keep you on that story. I'm sending you to Arkansas. The Times, the Journal, the networks already have their guys down there checking out that judge. They're about to nominate to the court. I need more time.

For what? You've lost your sources at the White House. You've had no luck with Garcia. You've lost the girl. On balance, not your best week. You can't take me off this story. What do you know for fact? Some guy who won't identify himself says he knows something about the assassinations.

You think he works for a law firm, but you don't know which one. Now he's cut off all comments. contact with you. That's not promising as these things go. You can't take me off this story. There's something there. I can smell it. Evidence based on olfactory prowess is inadmissible in case you didn't know. And then there's this girl with her bird brief for which you still can get no confirmation, correct? Not yet. Yeah. She also has cut off contact. Cutting off contact with you is reaching epidemic proportions. Like, it makes no sense. It's like a...

Maybe that's why it was the Washington Herald and not the Washington Post. Yeah. But it makes you think. It made me think at least when I was watching the movie that John Lithgow's in on it because John Lithgow is right after Ricochet, it's after cliffhanger. He's trying to redirect him. You're like, okay, so is he in on this conspiracy but he's not? He just sucks at his job. It's so weird.

Is this movie more fun if it's the guy from Ricochet is Denzel's editor? He doesn't realize it, yeah. Would the FBI really flip out about a Pelican proof? Well, now, you mean in 93 or now? 93. Probably they wouldn't take it seriously because

they're not great at their jobs. I'm going to say they just throw that in the Yeah. John Hurd says he tells Darby he's 5'10, 180. Mm-hmm. No. Just no. You think he's heavier? You think he's adding like a Chris Paul two inches there? I think he's like 220.

Oh. And 5-8. Yeah. I don't know. I actually, I was thinking about this because when I was pregnant, at the very end, I was like, I think I was like almost 190 and like the similar shape that John Hurd is in this movie. And I was like, oh, so 180, like, actually probably does make sense because I was, like, protruding. You had another human inside you, though.

He just has, like, a lot of hoagies. Sure, but I was like, okay, so if I was 190 with another, like, my son was really big, then 180 and five, I'm like almost 5'10. It sounds about right, honestly. I think I can verify it, you know, and the way it's distributed. I think you're being generous. I think he's just fat. Okay. But he's like, fuck it, I'll be topless.

It was great. Yeah. He's going for it. John Hart always goes forward to movies. Yeah. Yeah. He was... Same with the Sopranos.

He's disgusting in the Spranos, and he's so good. Sequel. Oh, do you have any nipicks? We covered, basically. A lot of it is just, like, when you rewatch this movie a bunch of times, how many major plot points hinge entirely on luck. Like, they should have died in the parking garage, but the Doberman attacks the woman who's hunting them.

Also, who is she working for? The woman who follows her into the safe deposit. No idea. Oh, I thought she was one of the Matisse people, because then she is in the garage. That's right. Yeah. Because she sees them in the rear view mirror.

The other thing is just like at the registrar's office, like the chance that the guy is standing next to Denzel is like, hey, I just wanted to tell you about the person you're looking for. I have two really small ones. Yeah. Number one right after the registrar office, they finally find the hallucinating the law student on leave. Why is he so hot?

It's really distra. They just like cast a new. incredibly, like, handsome Abercrombie model. Yeah. Just very confusing. Might have been somebody called in sick for that part. Okay. Might have been, like, River Phoenix was supposed to play that person and then had a bad day.

And then number two, in like the video affidavit. What? Why is that? It's a Grisha movie. Huge cast. Okay. In the video affidavit. Yeah.

It's just like no one needs, no one has that many saws in their basement. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's like, it's so many sauce. So either he's up to something or that was just a good. Yeah, that was like he's actually Jame Gump. Sequel, Prequel, Prestige TV, All Blackcast, Untouchable. I got the sequel that's just ready made for you.

Oh, I was going to say Prestige TV. So was I. I felt like this could have been easily on Amazon. Let's do it. Let's just do it. Why not? But in the book, Darby goes to the Caribbean. and Gray goes and meets her there

and is like, I'll stay for like a month with you because they're together. How are we not doing Denzel and Julia Roberts Cocktail sequel? They're living in the Caribbean and they started a bar. Can Cruz be in it? Sure.

Can he be Flanagan? He can be the Brian Brown character teaching them how to bartend. That's pretty good. Pelican brief too, cocktails and dreams? The Pina Colada brief? I actually had

Thinking about These two tones They're going to work together I had a tweak off Everything you just said So when they do these movies And the person escapes At the end

They're in some awesome Her location was like A little too awesome She's just on the water And so... How did she get that TV so quickly? She's in Fiji and where... How does she have money?

Is she in Fiji? I don't know It just seems like it. What's her bank account? Did she get paid by anybody? I set her up with a Swiss bank account and they're just like, here's $200,000.

Just don't ever say anything. Is that something they do? I don't know. Like, in real life, she's probably on the third floor of some seedy motel and Fiji just making ends meet. Classic Fiji motel.

Yeah. Where she is, is she's on the freaking water in this awesome place. It looks like Hawaii. Yeah. Or Mexico. Yeah. Is this movie better with

Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trao, Catherine Hahn, Steve Bouchemy, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, Byron Mayo. Yeah. I finally listened to that one. Really, really good stuff. You can congratulate Chris because Sean and I just like- You mean Byron. Yeah, you can congratulate Byron. C.R., what's the answer? The answer is J.T. Walsh as Matisse.

Oh. It's just right there for them and they don't take it. But if Wayne Jenkins had been in it, and he had said, God damn, Torby! I didn't know I was working with Jim Garrison over here! you put together a conspiracy that might save the country itself and an endangered motherfucking bird

you better stop dating your teachers though or that guy's going to jail a long fucking time before is that your first experience with Wayne? I had it during this from Mrs. Smith too but it's really special every time yeah but I think J.T. Walshren

really yelling really loudly at you. I thought you were going to go with Byron Mayer that way. I was sitting next to him. Darby, Gray. Let's get in a bed. I know you and Gray are sharing a cabin.

It's wet outside. It can be wet in here. Come on. I got a king's ass bed, baby. I always protect my sources. Me and my friend Kamal went to a little movie theater last night. Broke out some popcorn. What happened happened between consenting adults.

Another film by Alan Bakula. I feel so violated. We're sitting so close together. Robert Lojia and Sam Tucci had a fucking adult movie theater. They're like, I love this movie. I love when the sailors come in. Let me tell you, this guy's not a cable installer. That pizza's not even worn.

just one Oscar Does anyone deserve an Oscar for this movie Amanda? I don't think so It sounds like Byron Mayo might have If they found a way to work him in Probably an answerable questions Could Anthony Heald have ever played anything in his prime Other than a huge oily sneering scumbag

Like could he have been the dad in home alone? No, because then you'd be like Where's his like torture chamber for Kevin? Yeah. Like, talk about typecast. You just see him. You're like, ah, this guy sucks. Hate this guy.

Grantam, dating, married, divorced, asexual, gay? What's going on here? There's some divorced energy. There is. I was thinking of divorce. Like home office. Exactly. Yeah.

And it's like... Maybe just mention it for two seconds. Now that I'm... Now that I'm divorced. Yeah. That, that, that. This is a guy who's going on PBS on Sunday mornings to talk about the biggest news in the world. Right.

And it looks like Denzel Washington. I'm going through a divorce. I'm separated. Where did Darby's plane land? So he says you can take my plane wherever and then you can disappear from there. So am I trying to pick like what connecting airport she picked? Yeah, this is why it's an unanswerable question. Like Dallas?

Like, you know. Oh, I thought. Well, her plane eventually lands in, like, the Caribbean, Bahamas, Fiji, Hawaii. Okay. Where she eventually goes. I think the Caribbean. I really felt Caribbean-ish. I basically learned about the Caribbean and certainly it's tax structures from John Grisham novels.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It would be cool if she was working at the bar that Avery Tolland goes to. Right. If she hooked up with Hackman. That's the sequel. Grisham verse going. Okay. Could somebody write a movie, a book about John Grisham doing something?

something illegal and they came in Islands and that he's been telling us all along at all these different books. Oh, yeah. That's a great one. He's giving it. This person puts the puzzle together and gets murdered and then a college didn't have to figure it out. We should cut that out of this and try to develop that. Did Darby and Gray win a Pulitzer, Amanda?

And did she go? I don't think she went. I hope they won a Pulitzer, but it's pretty political, you know? Do people win Pulitzer's for having good theories that are right? Well, she wrote the story. She got the co-by line. Yeah, that's true. Good reporting.

They had to get chased a couple times. Parking garage. I forgot to mention what stage is the best. The Doberman in the car coming out of nowhere to bark at somebody who's already in danger. Always works. Do you think that... Just a lot of Dobermans in cars and action movies. How long do you think Gray would be able to fend people off of Darby?

Because you would think that people would be like, my mission in life is to docks Darby. Like, find out where Darby is. Yeah. Well, you would also think that people's mission in life would be to solve who assassinated to Supreme Court just Darby. So. Best double-feature choice of this movie. Would you go to the firm? Sure.

Just bang them out. It's a long evening, but it's a fun one. I might recommend the parallax view from Alan J. Pakula. Oh, a little before and after? Yeah, which I think is, like, closest actually to what this movie is like in terms of, like, there are dark powers behind this country. And it's hard to know who they are. What about hardcore? Yeah, sure.

Oh, my God. Do you want to announce the additional second leg of our live tour throughout across the porn theaters of America? Just the combat zone? You make it sound like George C. Scott is coming when you do that. But that's what's so weird about it. It is weird. You are communicating that.

George C. Scott. They're like, George, dial it up. We're going to do one more take. Can you just dial it up more? He's never had to be asked to dial it up, I assure you. That's what he does. The Indian Red Zawat Nair Award for what happened the next day. Here's what I have.

Darby disappears for 22 years and then does the narrative podcast that becomes bigger than surreal. That's good. That is really nice. Have we considered that she's at Zawantanao? Oh, interesting. Kind of got that energy. How much, like, is she still using her like, I'm scared voice as the podcast voice? No, she's got her voice back.

Okay. I'm a Derby Shaw. Thank you for listening to Serial. Still scared. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie, Sean? John Lithgow's desktop computer. With the green and black screen. Oh, yeah.

I was taken back to the early days of the... What is that the... Cross-out area? Oh, my God. I used to, like, had double vision after being at the Harold for eight hours. I would go at the original Pelican brief. they had it with the Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah. That's a cool one. You usually get mad when I pick the car, but I would like Caliard's car. We should put that in what stage the best, I forgot. Denzel's Howard University T-shirt.

Oh, that's good, too. I was going to do the Mets hat. And then wear it during every bit. Oh, is Nix? Yeah. Oh, I wrote down Mets because I thought that it would taunt you even more. Yeah.

That's a legendary photo among Nix fans. Yeah. Is Julia looking cool in a Nix hat? The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. If you find out about a giant government conspiracy, just keep it yourself. Not worth it. Would you do that? Just keep it yourself.

You end up being chasing in a parking garage getting saved by a people. You would sprinkle it on pods. Just like you would, like, don't aggregate me. But I think this is who killed the Supreme Court justice. You literally on this podcast talked about who you think killed JFK. That's bad because it's factual. Who in the movie? Amanda?

Hmm. Can Sam Shepard be an answer? Sure. It can be whatever you want. There's no peer pressure on the rewatchables. I guess Grisham. John Grisham did. I had Grisham as well. Yeah.

I'm going to go Denzel. Here's my case. Denzel never has to rely on another movie star again after this movie. Every other movie he makes after this, he can do it on his own. Yeah. You'd even say Crimson Tide? I think if you had swapped out somebody less legendary than Gene Hackman, that movie still would have worked. If it's Anthony held?

Yeah. That movie was sold on Denzel. Yeah. It wasn't sold. The way that Pelican Brief is sold on Julia, the way that Philadelphia is sold on Hanks. So to me, this is like him crossing the line to from A to A plus. I'm going to go conspiracies in the movie. Like, just the idea of conspiracies are just, it's a very rich text, still relevant,

and I like the way Pekula handled it. And honestly, way more fun in the early 90s pre-internet. Yeah. Yeah. You just sit around, smoke some cigarettes, and argue about who killed JFK, and then everybody went home. Yeah. then something changed.

What do you got, Craig? I don't love the slander on the acting in this movie, on Julia Roberts and even a little bit of Denzel. I think that we have a very strong relationship to a certain kind of performance from her. I think this movie is, like you guys said, it's too long, it's kind of slow. The plot's pretty murky.

You really got to focus and pay attention and there's a lot of jargon and talking. And the fact that this made $200 million, and it's still a good movie to me is a testament to Julia Roberts and Denzel, like keeping you there the entire time. Yeah. I like that this movie was,

unfussy, and it's unlike most movies today where it's like, this is just the two of them. It is a political thriller. There is no real action. There's no CGI. It's like they just got to act in the movie. And they held my attention the entire time for a movie that I feel like has a million flaws. Was it a first watch? Yeah.

Liz and I both. That's a good summary. Hold your attention the entire time. Pretty flawed. Major star power. Fun to see the two stars of one movie. And I think to the point we were making earlier, it's actually a fun movie to watch in chunks. Like it's not a bad movie.

to be like, oh, wow. It feels like a TV show converted into a movie. A little bit. It feels like it was 10 episodes and they condensed it down. I really do think they should just remake it. That was like Oppenheimer. Yeah. Oh, Jesus Christ.

I'm with it. It's like not now, Bill. It's like three one hour episodes. Bill, welcome. Just I. Was Oppenheimer a miniseries or a movie? I just got a concussion. I'm not a take.

It's amazing. I've been concussed. What are your view at the sit-over? You got more takes you want on Cork? That now's the time. I wanted to watch Oppenheimer at home because I had to take notes with all the plots and characters. You should do it. This podcast will self-destruct in three minutes like pot where you're just like, here's the year in movies.

Oppenheimer too long. Who says I'm not going to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Can you do that plus JFK? But you did need a whiteboard for Oppenheimer, right? Did people actually go into the theater and just kind of watch that line? You just pay attention to it.

Yeah, they did. But I did that twice and I still don't know what happens in the last hour. so. But, you know, Romney Malick is writing me down on his clip with those. Hill.

Yeah. Yeah. He'll explain you. It's pretty legible. I don't know. I thought it was good. I like that movie. Oppenheimer's good.

I like that. Yeah, it was good. I like it. Do you like Oppenheimer? I loved it. Yeah. It's good movie. It's great.

What's better? Pelican Reef for Oppenheimer. That's the rewatchable. Thank you, Amanda. Thank you, Bill. Great to have you on. Sean. Thank you, Bill.

Chris. Pleasure, as always. three more until the break, including we're going to flip on Christmas Eve. We're going to run the rewatchables on Sunday night and run my pod on Monday night because the football schedule is just super weird. So we're going to put a big one

on that Christmas Eve one. Anyway, that's it for the rewatchables. Good to see you. Don't forget about the rewatchables tour. Working about tickets, Craig? Ringer.com slash events. Yeah. Yep.

Great. There's only one place you can see Byron Mayo in person. Oh, my God. How are you going to decide between Wayne and Byron for each city? I think I'm starting to look more like Byron, so I may have to lean into that. Thanks, everybody.